10/6    Effects of the new car tax: my friend is a java developer living alone
        and making about $55k.  She's not from Berkeley so this is about the
        best she's going to do.  Car tax on her $26k car?  $700.  We need
        prop13 for car owners so middle income people can still afford to
        drive to work.
        \_ 2% of 26k = 520 + a few other bits - shouldn't exceed $600.
           And she didn't have to buy a new car.  Gas runs her 4x as much.
           \_ I saw her bill.  $700 no matter what you *think* it should be.
        \_ just vote for McClintock (or Arnold?)
        \_ What do you mean, "afford to drive to work"? Is she going to stop
           driving and ride bike? If so, that's great. No, she's going to
           suck it up and bend over to the state. Why? Because she makes $55k
           and is buying a $26k car...
           \_ What if I said she makes $80k?  What if I said she makes $120k?
              Would you then say she makes enough that she should just pay and
              STFU and as a rich bitch she already doesn't pay her fair share?
           \_ Solid point.  $26k is too much for your car if you make $55k
              around here.  Can we get some decent home econ classes in the
              damn schools.
              \_ Sorry.  Not in the budget.
           \_ it's people like you who wonder hanging at the end of a rope
              \_ wut
           \_ this man speaks truth
              \_ could you translate it into some form of english, please?
                 \_ it is english, dumbass. non-rich people who can't budget
                    appropriately will always have money trouble, regardless
                    of the car tax.
        \_ She pays $500/mo in car payments, $200/mo in insurance, probably
           $100/mo in gasoline and she complains about $60/mo in taxes?
           Tell her to stop whining.
           \_ 200/month in insurance?  She isn't an 18 year old white male.
              500/month in car payments?  Who ripped you off when you bought
              a car?  It isn't a porsche.  -op
              \_ 26000/48 = 541, 26000/60 = 433 do the math. Most people get
                 4 year car loans. That doesn't even include interest.
                 I just plugged 28 yo single female with a perfect record
                 living in Berkeley into http://gmac123.com and they gave me $195/mo
                 for 100/300 liability and full coverage.
           \_ yeah, let the bitch eat cake!
              \_ How do you think these highways she drives on are financed?
                 Typical middle class Californian, wants all this stuff
                 and wants someone else to pay for it.
                 \_ I hate this royal bitch already. She deserves to die.
                 \_ With her taxes?  We already know the rich and poor don't
                    pay them.
           \_ Only $100 per month on gasoline?!
        \_ One of the most useless things to buy is a brand new car. Just
           buy a good used car and get min insurance. Works for me. Invest
           extra money for the future.
           \_ What will you buy with that money in the future? A new car?
              \_ No, he'll be paying medical bills when he crashes in his
                 old heap.
              \_ With the money I saved from not having a car for 10
                 years, I was able to make a down payment on a house. -ausman
                 \_ I did the same thing, but the point here is that at one
                    extreme you have a lot of money and don't do anything with
                    it. At the other extreme you enjoy life but get into
                    debt. Moderation is the key. After a saved for the house
                    I bought myself a new car, because having a POS for 10
                    years sucks. Useless? Maybe. Makes me happy? Yes. --dim
                 \_ With the money I saved from not having a car for 10 years,
                    I was able to buy a new car AND downpay a house....
                    Though perhaps I'd have been better off without the car.
                    I weigh 20lbs more in 1.5 years.
                 \_ With the increased mobility a car allowed me, I was able
                    to live in a nicer place and commute to much better paying
                    jobs.  I made my down payment in cash, I pay an extra $2k
                    per month on my 15 year loan, and I can get my wife a new
                    car every 3 years with all the extra money I make by
                    having a car all the way through the last 10 years.
                    \_ Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that. Doesn't everyone
                       make their downpayment "in cash"?
                       \_ Nope.  Most people are doing 10% or even 5% and some
                          even get higher interest "negative" percent loans. I
                          did a full 20% down, live further away in a nicer
                          place than the shit holes where the jobs are.  I
                          don't have to tell myself anything.  I see my
                          paycheck, my loan expenses and my wife's new car.
                          And oh yeah, my house has gone up about $150k since
                          I got it and the area is now building up nicely.
                          \_ Personally, I think the outer burbs are horrible.
                             I would rather live in North Oakland. But luckily,
                             we don't all want the same thing. I suspect my
                             house in Noe Valley has gone up about that much.
                          \_ I find the outer burbs unpleasant, not nice,
                             but luckily, we don't all want the same thing.