3/21    Peter Duesberg's HIV/AIDS research web site, he's a
        MCB Professor here at Berkeley who isolated the
        first cancer gene.
        http://www.duesberg.com/index.html
        \_ it's interesting that drug needle sharing is cited by orthodox
           groups as being a major cause of hiv infection. this indicates to
           me that a lot of aids patients had a history of drug abuse, if
           past needle sharing shows up significantly as a cause. how many
           regular folks shoot up on heroin or hang out with those who do?
           i'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt enough to support
           funding the guy's research.
        \_ Took a class from him years ago before his ideas and reputation got
           stomped on by the politcally correct science crowd.  He was good.
           \_ are you for real?  what class did you take?  where did you
              see him speak?  Duesberg also thinks cancer is a myth. ok i
              admit i am over simplifying.  his partner in kookdom David
              Rasnick announced in January he was going to inject himself
              with the AIDS virus to prove it doesn't hurt, did he follow up
              on that? - danh
              \_ Hmm, these people seem to disagree with you.  Check
                 the list then ask yourself who is more credible.
                 http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/group.htm
                 Oh, and BTW, the Nobel Laureate
                 Kary Mullis who invented
                 PCR also seems to disagree with you.. but alas,
                 I'm SURE you know better!
                 \_ Just because a huge list of PhD's, Nobel Laureates and
                    others not easily written off as crackpots think there
                    might be something worth looking into doesn't mean jack.
                    tom already told us the way it is.  Why question it?
                        \_ gee, anonymous insults.  How useful.  -tom
              \_ Yes. It was around 1992.  Something like MCB 6 or something
                 like that.  A lecture series course which he co-taught with
                 someone else who left no impression on me at all.  I don't
                 know if the other guy injected himself or what happened to
                 any of the others in France, etc who injected themselves with
                 various things.
           \_ you mean his idea that AIDS isn't caused by the HIV virus?
              The guy's a crackpot, and it has nothing to do with
              political correctness.  (He's a good example of how you
              can always find a professor to support any crackpot theory) -tom
              \_ Hmm, I was there and heard what he had to say all semester and
                 you read the Reader's Digest, maybe?  Yes, your sources are
                 much better than mine.  Excuse my error.  You're entirely
                 right.
                 \_ A man came up to me and said
                    I'd like to poison your mind
                    With wrong ideas that appeal to you
                    Though I am not unkind.  -tom
                    \_ Nice poetry.  Reader's Digest Poetry Edition?
                    \_ Nice TMBG ref.
              \_ The home page says he's only referring to American/European
                 AIDS regarding that issue, not African AIDS.  I haven't read
                 the rest yet so I don't know yet what the difference is.
                 \_ "The African AIDS epidemic fails all criteria of a
                    microbial or viral epidemic"
                    Oh and by the way, the Holocaust was invented by the
                    Jewish media.  -tom
                    \_ Sorry, Tom, but tossing around the Holocaust and the
                       Jewish media and other hot button phrases doesn't make
                       a valid argument or support your points in any way.
                       \_ And your argument is...what?  -tom
                          \_ That some people know more about what he has to
                             say than you do and find his work interesting
                             and his theories worth examining without instant
                             dismissal from the PC crowd which is exactly what
                             happened.  20 years later and no one can tell you
                             how HIV turns into AIDS.  They only refer to it
                             as 'happening' as a matter of fact.  He might be
                             100% wrong on everything he says but that can't
                             be said currently without more intellectual
                             honesty regarding his theories.
                             \_ Do you really see molecular biologists as a PC
                                crowd?  Maybe his theories were dismissed
                                because they have no basis in reality.  -tom
                                \_ They're people.  People have agendas.
                                   A science degree doesn't make someone
                                   magically immune to bias and certainly
                                   doesn't make them suddenly not afraid of
                                   losing grant money by backing a theory
                                   that offends a certain segment of
                                   society.  Maybe his theories have no
                                   basis in reality.  It hasn't been proven
                                   either way.  He was simply smeared away.
                                   Wouldn't it be dreadful if he's right or
                                   even partially right and we've lost 15+
                                   years fighting the wrong disease?
                                   \_ ...or poisoning people by trying to
                                      cure it?
                                      \_ exactly. What if the current
                                         approach is akin to leaches?
                                        \_ The current approach demonstrably
                                           saves people's lives.  If you don't
                                           believe that, there's no hope for
                                           you.  -tom
                                           \_ If you believe that without
                                              considering all scientific
                                              alternative explanations then
                                              there's no hope for you.
                                           \_ Did you even read the articles
                                              on the site? His papers indicate
                                              the opposite.
                                              \_ tom doesn't need to read.  he
                                                 already knows everything. dont
                                                 let mere facts get in his way!
                                                 \_ Tom has confused the
                                                    practice of some scholars
                                                    to weigh in on subjectd
                                                    to weigh in on subjects
                                                    the dont have expertise in
                                                    [something tom himself has
                                                    expertise in] with a
                                                    scholar weighing in on
                                                    something in his area.
                                                    \_ gee, more anonymous
                                                       insults.  You guys
                                                       are incredibly manly
                                                       and intelligent. -tom
                                                       \_ Either that or
                                                          you are too
                                                          insecure to admit
                                                          when you are
                                                          wrong.
                                                        \_ tell us about the
                                                           stars, ilyas. -tom
                                                           \_ You sure that
                                                              was me, tom?  As
                                                              sure as you are
                                                              about AIDS?
                                                               -- ilyas
                                                               \_ now *that's*
                                                                  a flame-war!