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| 2009/10/29-11/3 [Finance/CC, Finance/Investment] UID:53483 Activity:kinda low |
10/29 Hey troll that said that 2 CS profs should make $1M/yr...
http://www.sacbee.com/statepay
Most CS Profs make around $120K. Now it's your turn to talk about how
if you're not wasting your money on fancy dinners and investing it all,
you'd make over $1M on real estate and stock market investments.
\_ Go back and reread and apologize. 1/4 != 1
Did you get past fractions?
PS Our family income is usually less than that and our combined net
worth is $1M+.
\_ Your family income is less than $120K and your net worth is
over $1M? I'd say that's pretty atypical.
\_ No our family income is less than $1/4M. Usually. We had
two great years overall, but great in this case was 300k
And yes, my kids will be one of those lucky ones. Bastards.
\_ "Two college profeesors are either millionaires
or really bad with their money." Do you include home values and
retirement funds when calling someone a millionaire?
\_ Of course, why wouldn't you?
"... calling someone a millionaire..." heh
\_ I don't call people "millionaires" because it is a stupid
distinction.
\_ Spoken like a true Trustafarian. Ever worked an honest
day in your entire life? I am always amused when rich
people attempt to deny that they lead lives of
privilege. Be proud of your lucky sperm!
\_ I work with a woman who is married to an older
man. They make maybe $300K/year between them.
He bought his house around 1980 and it is now
paid for. It's in a marginal area, but it is worth
about $1M because of all the upgrades they have
done to it. They live a frugal lifestyle with
only a few extravagances. They just bought their
first new car ever 3 years ago after sharing
a clunker that broke down all the time for a
decade. They still only have one car (a Nissan)
between them so they have to carpool. What
cracks me up is when they talk about 'the rich
people' moving into their neighborhood as in
'the rich people who moved in next door have a
Corvette'. They have no debt, a paid for house,
and a high income. I keep telling them: "You
guys *ARE* the rich people" and they don't see
it that way. It drives me nuts.
\_ You have pretty much described my wife. We
have $100k in savings, $200k in bonds, $300k
in our retirement accounts and a $1M house that
is about halfway paid off and she still insists
on clipping coupons and taking the bus. It kind
of cracks me up.
\_ listen to your wife, and stay together.
my mother is someone who pays credit card
with another credit card. i think she is
as typical of an American as it gets, and
that's just pathetic.
\_ Yeah, I would rather have a thrifty wife
than the other kind as I am pretty thrifty
myself, but it occasionally is annoying.
\_ how is it annoying than spending like
a typical white woman?
\_ I don't understand your question.
Can you reword it please?
\_ You suck, FIE DOLLAH!
\_ I don't know about him, but for
me it's annoying when, say, my
coworker has to ask for a ride
because her husband has the car
or it's in the shop. Get a freaking
1992 Corolla to have as a second car
already. Thriftiness is good, but
there's a point where it impacts
your life unnecessarily. That's
when it turns stupid. I don't
want to be one of those old men
who rummages through trash cans and
wears the same pair of pants every
day even though he has $10M in
the bank. You can be too cheap.
\_ Maintaining two cars is
wasteful; asking for a ride
in those cases where one is
needed is simply allocating
resources more efficiently. -tom
\_ No, what it is is cheap. No
one said to buy a brand new
SUV, but with that kind of money
it's ridiculous to drive around
in an old broken down car for a
decade that you share with
your husband. It was so bad
that they were afraid to drive
far from home for fear of
breaking down. That impacted
their lifestyle in favor of
saving a few bucks. There
are a lot of things we do
that are wasteful. I'm sure
I can identify plenty of
waste in your life if given
the chance. Life is not
about allocating resources
efficiently. That's death,
which is very efficient.
\_ Life is certainly not about
collecting as much stuff as
you can, either, and it's
not about having all the
stuff you could ever need
to remain independent in
all situations. You know,
some people would rather
occasionally ask for a ride
than to have the hassle
and expense of owning a
car they don't really need.
-tom
\_ why can't you all just agree
that earth is overpopulated
and that your deaths would
all contribute to a better
well beings of everyone
else? DIE MOTHER FUCKERS!
\_ The most recent hilarity is when
we took a flight to LA and my wife
refused to take a $5 cab fare to
BART and insisted on Muni, which of
course did not arrive. So we carried
four bags, a stroller and two kids
a mile to the BART station. Stuff
like that. Of course, we are too
cheap to own a car.
\_ Sometimes it is limited to liquid assets. That is the
definition that, say, many banks use to identify high
net worth individuals. "Total assets excluding primary
residence" is another, which allows illiquid assets
but discounts your home.
\_ Yeah banks are only interested in identifying potential
customers, so they only want to know how much they can
get fees from.
\_ "millionaire" describes one's net worth, not one's annual
earned income. -- !PP
\_ Partha Banjeree doesn't show up on this list. I guess LBL is part
of DoE and not UC.
\_ psb's salary is classified information
\_ The fact that psb's salary is classified is classified. |
| 2009/9/17-24 [Finance/CC] UID:53375 Activity:nil |
9/17 Has anyone done shopping card and integration with PayPal
Credit Card processing, Yahoo Store Credit processing, or
Google Checkout? What are you thoughts and/or recommendations? |
| 2009/8/3-11 [Finance/CC, Academia/GradSchool] UID:53233 Activity:low |
8/1 http://www.eyeweekly.com/print/article/55882 "Quarterlife Crisis" Too many options == no goals in life. \_ Really good read. Enjoyed this article a lot, though it also was fairly depressing. It seems like there is quite a bit of freedom for young people, but all that means is they have anxiety about making the wrong choices. -mrauser \_ Thanks, am trying to kick up the motd a bit. \_ If it wasn't for that last sentence I would call this a bunch of self-indulgent drivel. Poor bastards, they are too privileged and are suffering for it. |
| 2008/11/24-12/1 [Finance/Banking, Finance/CC, Finance/Investment] UID:52089 Activity:nil |
11/23 http://blog.mint.com/blog/finance-core/a-visual-guide-to-the-financial-crisis \_ bahahahaha most hilarious \_ Whatever happened to all the FREE MARKET IS BETTER vote for GWB drones on motd? |
| 2008/10/14-17 [Finance/CC] UID:51519 Activity:nil |
10/14 Credit card questions:
1) how long do credit card info stay on your credit report?
I just saw my cred report for the first time and was pissed
to see certain things over 10 years ago!!!
\_ Positive ratings can stay on indefinitely. Was it a positive or
negative thing? I think negative things have to come off after
seven years.
2) I just tried to cancel a bunch of cards (and I have perfect
record with them) and they gave me a hard time saying that
I don't want to cancel my card because I've had over 13 years
with them and that doing so will hurt my credit, therefore,
I should keep them. WTF? Is that really true even though you
have a card that you never intend to use?
\_ Yes. Your score includes the age of your oldest account,
and the average age of your accounts. http://csua.org/u/mn7
\_ Keep the one that has the longest credit record. Total credit
history is important. For some reason my student loan fell off my
credit history and my credit score dropped (not much, like 10
points, but still it was annoying)
\_ Get your credit limit set to as low as you can and
then cut up the card. Your history
will remain. |
| 2008/10/9 [Finance/CC] UID:51444 Activity:high |
10/9 "NYC National Debt Clock runs out of digits"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_re_us/odd_national_debt_clock
Is it even possible to pay off the national debt, both in theory and in
practice?
\_ If we conquer the country we borrow from, we'd have 0 debt.
\_ we would be unable to fight chinese HUMAN WAVE attack re:
Korean War.
\_ Well... technology has improved a lot since the Korean war.
The Chinese would do the wave attack at night in Korea
because it was difficult to use area attacks like naplam at
night then. This isn't a problem now. On the other hand,
China has better was to tattack now as well.
China has better ways to attack now as well.
\_ But scary Chinamen already infiltrated United States!
Just look at the recent case of Wen Hao(sp)
\_ I think they have secretly infiltrated the Federal
Reserve
\_ I thought you were going to say William Hung.
\_ not sure. McCain increasing spending and cutting taxes probably
won't cut it down much. Why does he keep complaining about
earmarks, it's like .05 percent of the total budget. He just
mentioned the bridge to nowhere again!
\_ Same reason pol's like to talk about bank CEOs getting millions
during the crisis.
\_ I don't see why not, it is still only $30k/person. I think the
average American consumer has that much credit card debt at this
point. The real way we will pay it down is to grow the economy so
that the debt is a smaller piece of it.
\_ Why does having credit card debt it easier to pay off the
national debt?
\_ Do you think people are going to pay off their credit
card debt? |
| 2008/8/31-9/3 [Finance/CC] UID:51011 Activity:nil |
8/31 Credit Card Companies Kill Mythbusters episode on how easy it is to
hack an RFID-enabled credit card
http://consumerist.com/5043831/mythbusters-gagged-credit-card-companies-kill-episode-exposing-rfid-security-flaws |
| 2008/8/12-18 [Finance/CC, Finance/Investment] UID:50852 Activity:high |
8/11 Our Phony Economy
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/06/0082042
\_ This is an outstanding article. My hope for Obama is that
he could become the first serious politician on either side
of the aisle to challenge the assumption that GDP growth shoulds
of the aisle to challenge the assumption that GDP growth should
be our primary metric of success. -tom
\_ Success is how many countries we can free from TYRANTS
and AXIS OF EVIL in this world.
\_ Given the success of a $ measurement of "the economy", perhaps
the fix is to provide $ values for the things that have been
left out? Estimates of the value of "health", "environment"
and "resources"?
\_ This article doesn't mention any concepts not taught in Econ 1.
Every economist knows these things. I'm not sure what's so
great about the article or how it really addresses what's
wrong with measuring the growth of the economy via GDP. An
$800 pair of shoes *does* contribute 40x more to the economy
than a $20 pair of shoes.
\_ Proving you don't know what you are talking about. If I buy
an 800 dollar pair of shoes and wear them once or twice
less is added to the economy then if 40 people buy 20 dollar
shoes and use them to be more productive as people with shoes
can contribute more to the economy than people without shoes,
they can walk longer distances, are less likely to hurt
themselves, etc etc. Big luxury items don't create as much
wealth as a simaler level of basic needs. That's not to say
they don't contribute ANYTHING.
\_ You have it BACKWARDS. It's called Demand and
Supply (or it should have been). How are you going
to make those other people buy the 40 pairs of
shoes because you've given up the $800 pair?
People make their own decisions about what to buy,
which leads to demand, which is fulfilled by
supply. Now if you think 40 x $20 shoes >> $800,
then you let us know when you come up with a new
mathematical model that is internally consistent,
which somehow awards bonus dollars for having been
bought by the noble and now magically more
productive. Also, do you think people buy a $20
pair of shoes and then say, oh, I can be so much
more productive now. No, poor people without shoes
with an entrepreneurial bent decide to take a
chance and make some money, then realize they can
be more productive with shoes, and so buy a
pair. The whole theory is backwards.
\_ Why are you assuming people are attacking capatalism?
Noone is trying to say people shouldn't buy luxuries.
People are saying when the economy becomes too geared
towards buying and selling luxuries that do not
generate work in and of themselves that an economy
suffers, even if the GDP is still going up.
\_ This doesn't make sense. Nothing generates work in
and of themselves. "Real GDP" going up means there
is more overall value in the country, regardless of
what it was. The market is better at deciding value
than you are. A real problem that is mentioned in
the article is when "commons" damage is not accounted
for.
\_ Please provide some proof that the market is
"better at deciding value than you are." That's
merely an assertion. -tom
\_ America = free market, the strongest nation
in the world. You're an idiot. Go back to
Russia.
\_ America = democracy, the largst government
in the world, therefore the most central
control of spending. I see you are totally
incapable of arguing your point. -tom
\_ Well, is it just a coincidence that market-
based economies outperform planned economies?
Were those planned economies just unfortunately
saddled with the wrong planners?
But let me put it another way: it's not so
important that the market is better at it.
It's that *I* am better at deciding what's
valuable *to me* than you are. And when we
all do that it's called a market.
\_ Is Bernake a market planner? There
are aspects of planning in all
Western countries, and aspects of
market economies in Cuba and China.
Are we outperforming China right
now? By what metric? It has already
\_ China mysteriously has been doing
*far* better since they reformed their
system to incorporate market principles
beginning in 1978.
Chinese people are the biggest fans of
the free market in the world.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/bgprg
been proven that groups of individuals
making "rational" decisions for them as
individuals can produce negative results
for the entire system. And the use of
GDP as a proxy for success has problems
well beyond the problems of the commons
or of incomplete information; the use of
GDP as a proxy for success places a value
judgement on monetary transactions--
monetary transactions are inherently
more valuable than non-monetary
transactions. Buying food is valued more
highly than growing your own. Paying
$1000 for a cat is valued more highly
than adopting a stray. It is clear that
dialog and politics in the US are
beholden to these values, but it is not
at all clear that they produce good results
for the society. -tom
\_ If you have $1000 and you adopt a
stray cat then you have $1000 to
spend on something else. The $1000
doesn't go away unless you stuff it
in your mattress.
\_ All economies are planned, to a certain
extent. The best performing economies over
the long run are mixed economies, apparently
ones with a bit more central planning than
in the US. See Sweden vs. US long term median
per capita salary growth. Even in per capita
GDP they pretty much equal us, with a more
evenly distributed income structure and
less income volatility.
\_ Sweden and the US still have roughly
similar economic structures: market
based democracy plus socialist programs.
Sweden and the US have too many other
differences... the US gets huge numbers
of poor immigrants.
\_ I don't really disagree, but then again
the Democrats and Republicans don't
really disagree either. What's 30% vs.
40% state control of the economy?
Mostly, a tempest in a teapot, but
listening to FOX NEWS, you would think
it was the difference between liberty
and slavery.
\_ Who says what's more productive? That's USSR mentality.
If someone wants $800 shoes, why not? The money doesn't
disappear: the shoe makers profit and buy stuff from
others etc. and people are happier. That guy had to first
come up with the $800 somewhere too, probably doing
something productive somewhere in that chain.
\_ Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
Noone said you shouldn't be able to buy 800 dollar
shoes. But 800 dollar shoes do not help the economy
as much as 40 $20 shoes, assuming 40 $20 shoes are used
in the manner most people use them. Just like buying
a 500k supercar doesn't help as much 30 people buying
middle of the road vehicles that let them be more
productive. If you don't understand that you have
no bussiness saying the article writer doesn't know
what they are talking about.
\_ Can you prove that people are happier because they have
$800 shoes? Because all the attempts to measure how
happy people are have found little or no correlation
between the number of luxury items someone has and
their level of happiness. America has gotten
ridiculously wealthy in the past 60 years and has
not gotten any happier. I think discussing what is
or isn't more "productive" is totally missing the point;
the purpose of our country isn't to produce as much
as it possibly can, the purpose is to promote the
general welfare of the people. The assumption built
into much of our discussion is that growing the GDP is
equivalent to promoting the general welfare, but there
is really no evidence that the two are equivalent or
even correlated. -tom
\_ Says Comrade Tom
\_ You have no substance. -tom
\_
,. ^_^ ., <-------- tom
_ .' '. _
/\) (/\
/ / \ \
( Y) (Y )
\_ The point is people buy what they want. Whether they
are happy or not is beside the point. It might be
found that slaves were happier as slaves than free
men.
\_ Actually, whether we are happy is exactly the
point. Would you prefer a large and growing
economy where everyone is unhappy, or a static
economy where everyone is happy? Getting rid
of weekends would do a great job of growing
the economy, but it would not be of societal
benefit. The point is that growth of the
economy is not equivalent to improvement of the
country. -tom
\_ Getting rid of weekends would be a planned
totalitarian move, not a market action.
Would it really grow the economy, I'm not
so sure... people need days off for errands,
shopping, and recreation which generates a lot
of GDP.
Of course it's better if we're happy. Maybe
we should put antidepressant drugs in municipal
water supplies?
You can't make everyone happy though. Which
country is so ideal in this regard?
This country has a highly stressed cultural
fabric. We have many different races and
cultures which contributes to isolation and
lack of unity. This is just the nature of
our nation and has little to do with markets.
Anyway, people seem pretty happy to me.
\_ You know that the "free market" didn't
invent the weekend, right? -tom
\_ Huh? That $800 already exists in the pocket of someone.
Whichever way they spend it is going to put $800 in
the pocket of the shoe company (for sake of argument
let's say the same company makes $800 snakeskin boots
and $20 rubber shoes) which will be used to pay wages and
investors who will then spend the money as they see fit.
It doesn't really matter what they buy with that $800 as
long as they spend it instead of saving it. In fact, since
luxury items have a higher markup you might argue that
luxury items have an environmental benefit because it's
less harm to the environment to make one pair of snakeskin
boots versus 40 pairs of rubber shoes. Same with your
car example. One supercar is better for the environment.
\_ Wealthy people spend money on vehicles that pollute
more. Look at Larry and Sergey. They got 2 Prii
but decided to get a modified 757 instead of
LearJet/CitationX which are more efficient. Also
jets carrying 2-4 people have horrible mileage
compared to automobiles, yet, they choose to fly
frequently. $$$ = more usage = more waste =
more pollution.
\_ side note: it is fucking stupid to pluralize
"prius" as "prii". -tom
\_ Priusen
\_ But shoes have value. If you take a man with no
shoes and give him a pair of cheap shoes he is better
equiped to create wealth. Probably more wealth than
those shoes cost in the first place. Luxury goods,
on the other hand, don't add as much beyond their
purchase price. You know the whole concept that money
makes money? It's not as productive if all that money
is being spent on is luxuries.
That millionaire is going to spend his $$$ on something
and 30 middle-of-the-road vehicle is not as efficient.
He's not going to give the $500K to someone else, which is
an assumption you seem to make. However, the $500K ends up
in the economy in either case where it gets spent on
other goods and services, perhaps on middle-of-the-road
vehicles purchased by the people who made the supercar.
\_ Sure it is, because it ends up in the same place
either way - in the pockets of the people who made
the goods. How does a millionaire buying 40
pairs of $20 shoes contribute more to the
economy than the same millionaire buying one
pair of $800 shoes? It doesn't.
\_ Generally utilitarian items are used more
productivly than luxuries. Are you really this
stupid? Items used friviously have less
benefit to an economy than items used
productivly. Expensive luxuries are much more
likely to be used friviously. And that's a
problem in economies where the wealth is
concentrated among a small portion. Yes,
they will spend money. Yes that money will
go to people who spend money. But most of
the money stays in the small percentage it
will be spent on luxuries it won't be as
beneficial to the economy as a whole creating
less wealth than if the money was being spent
productivly.
\_ Virtually all shoes are luxuries. You can
buy sturdy utilitarian shoes for $10 on
sale or $20 new. People choose fashionable
ones as luxuries. Luxuries make people's
lives happier. This is good: we're not
all working for the glory of the fatherland.
Demand for luxuries creates demand for
productive stuff to make those luxuries and
people jobs. We're far past the point of
struggling for really basic stuff like
a pair of shoes (most of us anyway). It's
all about improving quality of life now.
Wealth concentration is a separate issue
from whether GDP growth in luxuries is
somehow bad for the economy.
Trade imbalances are bad, wealth
concentration is bad. Economic activity good.
\_ You have a hard time with reading
comprehension.
\_ No, this person is apparently
just missing the point..
Hey you! Another, hopefully clearer,
analogy: is $10k of medicine which
keeps a scientist alive, who makes
a key breakthrough that makes
cars 10% more efficient MORE or LESS
"economically beneficial" than some
rich doofus spending $10k on designer
toilet paper? Which is the better
Hey you! Another, hopefully
clearer, analogy: is $10k of
medicine which keeps a scientist
alive, who makes a key breakthrough
that makes cars 10% more efficient
MORE or LESS "economically
beneficial" than some rich doofus
spending $10k on designer toilet
paper? Which is the better
allocation of the $10k resource?
Which benefits society in general
more? Which individual is "happier"?
YES, the $10k is given to someone
either way, and is "recycled", but
the HUMAN EFFORT required to earn
the $10k is WASTED in one case and
BENEFITS SOCIETY in the other.
more? Which individual is
"happier"? YES, the $10k is given
to someone either way, and is
"recycled", but the HUMAN EFFORT
required to earn the $10k is WASTED
in one case and BENEFITS SOCIETY in
the other.
\_ This is fallacious. The $10k is
not either spent on saving a
scientist or someone's luxury.
There are enough resources for
both things to happen. You also
\_ But there are not resources
enough for EVERYTHING to
happen. The key point is
to maximize benefit of
resources expended. $10k
designer toilet paper is
of less benefit than $10k
of beneficial preventative
immunizations, since you
apparently don't like
scientists. Same with
$800 pair of luxury shoes
vs. 40 pair of $20 utility
shoes. The market sometimes
does a very poor job of
maximizing benefit.
\_ The market does a better
job than any other method
can. It's not 100%
efficient, but as close to
it as one can get.
\_ Maybe, or maybe not,
but GDB does not measure
many economic goods with
value, as this article
points out. It is broken.
points out. It is
broken.
\_ Your theory says this.
But the reality is that
the market is better at
optimizing distribution
of some resources and
that community decision
making (democracy) is
better in other cases.
don't know ahead of time whether
medical spending will keep
someone alive or that someone
will do something good. Maybe
scientist will actually go nuts
and SHOOT everyone in his lab
thereby HARMING SOCIETY. And at
the end of the day, what do we
get out of the efficient cars?
Cars are luxuries too. They are
mostly conveniences for people.
Aren't we all supposed to move
to the city and use mass transit?
\_ Look, you don't know what you
talking about and you are
either trolling or stupid.
You also seem to think that
our point is that everyone
should live in a communist
society with no luxuries.
That's not what anyone is
saying. So take off your
blinders and read the whole
thread again or just please
die.
\_ Here we go with ad hominem
SPLUTTERING. Nice job,
fuckface.
Your argument is totally
disingenuous. What you're
really getting at is wealth
equalization, and hinting
at some sort of eugenics-
based resource allocation.
The guy buying ridiculous
luxuries is doing that
because he's an EVIL RICH
BASTARD.
\_ How did you ever pass
the reading comprehension
CAT tests?
\_ Maybe you just don't get it.
What is the point of all the "productive
spending"? what is it all for? at the
top of the food chain is luxury.
You don't even make sense. "most of the
money stays in the small percentage it
will be spent on luxuries" What? speak
English.
\_ 30-40% of growth in healthcare doesn't have to mean we're getting
more sick. It may mean we're just more and more focused on being
healthier.
\_ Or getting ripped off more and more by the insurance companies.
\_ And this is the point of the article: GDP, by itself, with no
analysis of where the money is going, is not itself an indicator
of efficiency or success. A more meaningful figure would include
an analysis of American health, and corruption and inefficiency
in the healthcare industry.
\_ That's a straw man argument. No one claimed GDP growth
measures efficiency, quality of life, or "success" (whatever
that means). However, a larger GDP almost by definition
means a larger economy and a larger economy means, again
almost by definition, more goods and services produced.
Think of it as "economic capacity" or "economic capability".
A larger GDP nation can outproduce a smaller one, whether
all those goods and services go to one individual
(dictatorship), everyone (communism), or are distributed
by the free market (capitalism).
\_ Read the article. The author argues that when the govt.
says that the economy is strong based solely on GDP, that
is a meaningless simplification. Yes, a _significantly_
higher GDP demonstrates the difference between a
modern industrialized nation and a third-world developing
nation. However, if the President says the economy is
strong because GDP has increased half a percent, what does
that mean? Does it mean people paid more money for the
same amount of gas (money that goes directly into the
pockets of the House of Saud)? Does it mean more people
are eating out? Does it mean that it was hotter this
summer so ice cream sales are on the rise? It might mean
any of the above or none at all. At small levels of
difference, it's a meaningless stat.
\_ But it's a straw man argument, because no one is
saying that GDP by itself is so incredibly meaningful.
This is mentioned in Econ 1, as are externalities.
Real GDP versus nominal GDP are also basic concepts.
So this genius author points out something every Econ 1
student learns - that there are limitations and
caveats when measuring economic output and that GDP
(even Real GDP) alone doesn't tell the whole story. BFD.
Even the Wikipedia article on GDP talks about its
limitations. There was nothing interesting or novel
in that article.
\_ Sweet mother of god, this guy is not talking about
people who've taken Econ 101, he's talking about
politicians who wave around a 1-point increase in
GDP as if it's the holy fucking grail.
\_ So you're damning a statistic and centuries of
economics on measuring econ output because Bush
and other policticians are abusing the term?
and other politicians are abusing the term?
\_ Did you read the article?
\_ I don't know if he did, but I did and
it was full of crap like (coming full
circle) the specious argument about $800
shoes somehow contributing less than
40 pairs of $20 shoes. He worries that
"[t]he money in the big pot could be going
to cancer treatments or casinos, violent
video games or usurious credit-card rates."
Yes, it could. So what? It's still economic
output. Somehow "violent video games" are a
lesser form of economic output or something?
It sounds like he wants to characterize
what is "good spending" and what is
not. In fact, he goes so far as to say
that people are not rational with their
expenditures. Presumably they would be
a lot happier if he made their expenditures
for them? He speculates that marriage is a
threat to GDP because there's no divorce
spending? Is he on crack? The money that
isn't spent on divorce will be spent on
something else (or invested). It doesn't
disappear and will be reflected in the
GDP either way as the person who receives it
will then make his own economic decisions.
Economics is not about value judgements.
His article boils down to: "People
don't spend their money the way I think
they should." No wonder Tom likes it.
\_ His point was that touting an increase in
the GDP as some sort of indicator of
the health of the nation is overly
simplistic and meaningless. We're
measuring throughput while ignoring
destination. We don't know if the end
result is investment in our own
economy (yay!) or pools full of diamonds
in Riyadh (boo). He's saying that we
\_ GDP includes an exports minus imports
in the equation. Consumption isn't a
one way street. To pay for diamonds in
Riyadh requires spending money.
need to assess more than just the amount
of money that trades hands. That's not
the same as a "planned economy" a la
Stalin or Mao; it's arming the consumer
with tools for making more informed
choices. His point about divorce was an
obvious exaggeration designed to show
that an activity which increases money
flowing from one set of hands to another
is not necessarily an indicator of a
a healthy economy; it's an indicator of
nothing more than money moving. I don't
see where you see this ominous shadow
of socialism that seems to have you in
a tizzy. I don't see anything anti-
capitalism in wanting to know where the
money's flowing; if anything, I think
it's the basis for the purest capitalism.
\_ Nothing wrong with knowing where
the money is flowing, but what does it
matter? His undertone is that it's not
necessarily flowing where it should
be. He can't make that call. Divorces
make plenty of people happy. Recall
the days before they were common.
I can sell you a service and then you
can sell me one back. It's not
"nothing more than money moving". Two
services were performed.
\_ Do you think that having two
parents working and paying a
nanny to raise the kids is
inherently better for the
country than having one parent
stay home? -tom
\_ No idea and, unlike you, I don't
profess to know. However, if
parents are doing it then they
must feel it benefits them and
their family.
\_ The problem is, because we
are measuring our success
by GDP, we create political,
economic, and social
incentives to make the
choice to outsource
parenting. Prior to Keynes,
families with two working
parents were virtually
unheard of; now they are the
common case. It's
fallacious to consider this
the result of the free
market, except insofar as
free market ideology values
monetary transactions and
thus encourages them. You
get what you measure. -tom
\_ Uh, that's not due to
measuring GDP. Those
incentives exist anyway.
Prior to Keynes women
couldn't even vote in
general and their
economic opportunities
were culturally limited.
How do you propose to
"get the women back in
the kitchen"?
\_ Look, it's simple;
the metric you use to
measure success has
effects on behavior.
This is self-evident.
The primary measure we
have used to measure
success of the country
in the past 60 years
has been GDP. It is
not at all coincidental
that the society we
have built in that time
values consumption,
planned osbolescence,
and outsourcing. Those
are predictable effects
of using GDP to measure
success. The point is,
no one ever bothered to
prove that we'd be
better off with GDP
as our primary success
metric. And it's not
clear that we are. -tom
\_ Dude, you are way out
on a wobbly limb here.
The BEA uses GDP as
a measurement of
economic strength.
You'll have a hard
time proving that
individual purchasing
and business
decisions are
somehow tied to that
measuring stick.
Consumers and
corporations aren't
making decisions
based on how they
affect GDP. GDP
reflects the
decisions. It doesn't
drive them.
\_ The incentives
our society puts
in place are based
on how they affect
GDP. Individual
decisions are
skewed based on
those incentives.
-tom
\_ I assume you are
referring to
interest rates
when you say
incentives?
I think your
position is
untenable.
Rates are
determined
by a lot more
than just GDP
and it's not
clear to what
extent monetary
policy affects
the economy.
(See Japan's 0%
rates and yet
sluggish
economy.)
You are
reaching.
_/
Why would you assume I'm
referring to interest rates?
I'm referring to an enormous
number of decisions around
taxation, subsidy, and policy.
For example, farm subsidies
for factory farms. "Get big
or get out." Subsidy for the
road system, while passenger
rail is starved. Oil
subsidies. The military-
industrial complex. Allowing
obnoxious advertising
virtually everywhere. Christ,
the week after 9/11 there were
press conferences that weren't
about terrorism or security,
they were about "America: Open
For Business!" All these
things are in support of the
idea that more consumption is
better. You can't go through
an election cycle without
hearing virtually every
politician talk about "growing
the economy" and "creating
jobs"; no one even suggests
that growing the economy might
not be the right goal. -tom
\_ Please provide proof that any of
these are tied to a large extent to
the way that GDP is measured. I
mean, seriously, how does the
way GDP is measured lead to the
decision (if it's even true,
which is its own argument) to
subsidize roads versus rail?
How would you change the way
GDP is measured in order to get
the "correct" result?
mean, seriously, how does the way
GDP is measured lead to the decision
(if it's even true, which is its own
discussion) to subsidize roads
versus rail? How would you change
the way GDP is measured in order to
get the "correct" result?
\_ hi dim!
\_ I'm not talking about changing the
way GDP is measured, I'm talking
about changing the way *success*
is measured. Success is measured
in the US by GDP growth, therefore
politicians make decisions which
encourage GDP growth. An
auto-based culture has many more
transactions than a transit-based
culture; its inefficiency
"creates jobs" and therefore is
good if you're measuring success
by GDP. -tom
good if y
good if you measure success by
GDP. -tom
\_ What you are missing, just like
before, is that *if* a
mass-transit-based culture has
fewer transactions and/or
smaller transactions (not
necessarily true) then that
leaves more resources to
spend on other projects,
which makes the GDP pretty
much unchanged as compared
to auto-based. These are not
decisions that affect the size
of GDP. These are distribution
decisions: how do we spend the
GDP that we are capable of
generating.
\_ What *you* are missing is
that GDP is the result of
labor, and that the US
systematically encourages
choices which result in
increased labor. For
example, if someone stays
home with the kids, that
family will have less
income and spend less money.
If someone decides to take
a lower-paying job so he
doesn't have to commute
an hour each way, the family
will have less income.
If someone decides to work
a part-time job because he
really enjoys working in
the garden, and is able
to provide a good percentage
of the food the family
consumes, the family will
have less income. In all
these scenarios, the family
spends less and thus
contributes less to GDP.
It's not a zero-sum game.
Why should Americans work
more hours and have less
vacation than Europeans?
Shouldn't our excees
capacity be used at least
partly to give people more
leisure time? -tom
\_ That's not some official
policy. That's just
economics. Yes, choosing
to work less results in
less output. If you work
a good job you can afford
to have lots of free time
if you want. Maybe our
capacity isn't as excess
as it seems... tons of
people are in debt. Maybe
it's a function of our
banking industry which
idolizes debt. Debt
pushes up money supply
and inflates everything.
We have to go into debt
to compete for resources
against everyone else who
is in debt, working off
their monthly payments.
We're all indentured to
banks.
people are in debt.
Americans don't like to
"do without".
\_ Our use of GDP as a
measure for success
is not merely an
official policy; it
is deeply ingrained
in our culture. The
idea that more is
always better has been
so effectively sold to
us that most Americans
accept the idea as
axiomatic. It's not.
There is no reason
why Americans need
to use 2-3 times more
resources per capita
than Europeans; we
just assume that the
ways we do things are
the best ways, because
that's the way we've
"always" done it. -tom
\_ It's not just us.
Immigrants who come
here lap it up. And
they all use GDP to
measure their econs.
\_ GDP is a decent
measurement of
the size of an
economy. It's
not clear it's
a good
measurement of
the *success*
of an economy.
-tom
\_ You are just wrong about there being
centuries of measuring economic statistics.
This stuff was practically invented by FDR
and his economists. Keynes is considered
the father of Macroeconomics. |
| 2008/7/9-11 [Finance/CC] UID:50504 Activity:nil |
7/9 "Gas stations' sneaky trick"
link:www.yahoo.com/s/914178
I'd think it's illegal unless they display both prices.
\_ This is a violation of their CC agreement. They're not supposed to
charge different prices if you use a CC.
\- while i believe that is normally true, i think there must be
some loopholes ... possibly with some "powerful clients" ...
like ARCOs have officially and openly had cash != credit
prices for a long time and VISA etc are clearly aware of that.
it's not like a random cafe having a verbotten "$5 min" clause.
[BTW, in some "remote" where credit cards are not de rigeur
but accepted from say tourists, it is totally standard to
markup by credit card fee ... like say you want to bill a
tour in nepal to your CC ... in fact, if they dont charge you
a CC surcharge, you can be real sure you are massively over
paying]. |
| 2008/5/13-16 [Finance/CC] UID:49939 Activity:nil |
5/13 I just found that if I make a donation to Red Cross by credit card,
the credit card company still charges Red Cross for processing fees.
http://american.redcross.org/site/PageServer?pagename=faq_faq#11
\_ Why wouldn't they? You think they aren't gonna take a cut just
because Red Cross is a charity?
\_ Free market at work. A consumer should shop around and decide
what is the best for himself. Self help encouranges competition
thus everyone will benefit. |
| 2007/12/7-13 [Finance/CC] UID:48763 Activity:high |
12/7 Got a weird letter from a bank I've never heard of saying
"Your request cannot be approved at this time. In reaching
this decision, your request was judgementally reviewed and
denied for the following reason(s):
unable to verify identity"
What the hell? I didn't apply for anything, what's going on?
\_ Maybe just a phishing attempt.
\_ Someone may have tried to apply for credit cards in your name,
i.e. an identity theft attempt. I would contact the bank and
ask about it. You should also probably check your credit
and see if there has been suspicious activity lately. If so,
you can put some kind of "Fraud Alert" on it, notifying potential
credit grantors to be careful, but I am afraid I don't know too
much more about that.
\_ The fraud alert is actually quite helpful. Basically it locks
your credit report for anyone inquiries regarding new loans or
credit cards until you call the reporting agencies and ask them
to unlock it. -dans
\_ It's only good for 90 days.
\_ http://www.csua.org/u/k6m
You can do something called a "Security Freeze" on your
credit rating, too, but it sounds like a hassle.
\_ I did that. I got my mortgage and other credit the
way I want then I froze everything. I think getting
your ID stolen is a bigger hassle. YMMV.
\_ No doubt that getting your ID stolen is worse, but
what are the odds of that happening? Aren't you
paying $120/yr for protection against something
that is very unlikely?
1) low but climbing every day 2) I pay nothing.
Even if I had to pay, $120/year insurance would be
worth it to avoid the horror.
\_ I don't think you know how to do a cost/benefit
analysis. The average loss is $5k and if your
chance is 1%, why pay that? Add to that the
hassle factor of not being able to apply for
credit. How do you not pay? Were you a victim
of ID theft? In most states, it costs money.
of ID theft? In most states, it costs $10/mo.
\_ As I said, I don't need more credit so the
hassle factor is zero. Life is more than a
straight cost/bene analysis. If I had to pay
$120 that would be worth it. My credit
rating, time, and peace of mind are worth a
lot more to me than $10/month. Think of it
like this: the odds of an asteroid hitting the
earth anytime soon are near zero, yet a lot of
very serious scientists are looking into ways
to defend the planet if we spot one. Why?
Because if you lose the gamble you're totally
fucked. People spend years tracking down and
correcting ID theft problems. The thieves
don't just grab a few $K and go away. ID theft
is a personal finance asteroid hitting your
life. YMMV and you may find $120 to be worth
a lot more than the time you'd spend cleaning
this up should it happen to you.
\_ No, asteroids have something like a 1/1M
chance of killing 6B each year, so their
"expected" yearly casualty rate is 6k/yr.
That is worth a fair bit of research to
prevent. A 1/1000 chance of losing $6k is
not worth much time or money at all to
prevent. But if it makes you sleep better
at night, do whatever you want!
\_ 6k people a year is *nothing*. It
deserves no research for a death rate
like that by your calculations. OTOH,
a 1/1000 chance of fucking up my entire
financial situation and spending years
cleaning it up is worth it. Your value
judgements are 'confused'. Anyway, for
the record, it cost me $20 for a one time
lock. It costs $10 per time I want to
unlock it for a single transaction. I
have yet to pay the unlock fee. I have
no idea how you came up with this idea
that ID theft = $6k loss. I had more
credit than that on my student card.
How can you ignore the value of your
credit, potentially not getting a job
at places that do credit checks, and
the vast amount of time and agony being
an ID theft victim would inflict? It
is not like you write a check for this
fabricated $6k you bandy about and walk
away. Your life is hosed.
\_ You are a victim of fear:
link:www.csua.org/u/k6w (PDF file)
Most ID theft victims just challange
the credit card charge and walk away.
How much do you think a human life is
worth? The US civil engineering
society estimates $1-10M, so 6k deaths
are easily worth $6B to prevent. I
think you have a seriously confused
sense of priorities. You really think
having a credit snafu is more important
than the loss of 6000 human lives? Wow.
\_ Way to put words in my mouth. If
you really want to discuss this
seriously, say so, but I've made
my position clear, I explained the
costs (zero), the hassle (zero),
and the benefit (> zero) of a
credit lock and you have yet to
acknowledge any of that. IHBT.
\_ The cost and hassle is not
zero. It might be low and
therefore worth it to you, but
claiming that it is zero makes
your whole analysis suspect.
\_ I spent more than $20 on
lunch yesterday. If a one
time $20 fee is too high for
you, you have bigger problems
than ID theft. Keep up the
trolling.
\_ Spoken like a person who has
never experienced ID theft.
\_ I dunno, does having Romanians
charge your credit card count,
so that you had to change it
and dispute the charges?
\_ That's fraud and not
really ID theft.
\_ Are you a victim of ID theft?
How much did it cost you?
\_ I have been and my gf has
been, but the biggest
PITA was my brother. It
took him years to sort
through and even now
sometimes he is affected.
When someone has your
SS# and a DL with your
name on it all kinds of
interesting things happen
and you get to talk to
the police, government
agencies, banks, and
credit bureaus a lot. In
this case, it was a
former roommate of his
that stole his identity.
\_ How much did it cost you?
\_ In $$$ or in time
and trouble? How do you
calculate the cost of
spending a year in jail?
This problem is similar.
My brother missed a job
opportunity in the UK
because he couldn't get
a passport. Do you
just look at the $$$
lost? What about the
trouble he went through
and the emotional
rollercoaster of moving
to UK and then not?
\_ How much did your
incident of ID theft
cost you personally?
It is a simple enough
question, why won't
you answer it? I want
a dollar amount
though a time est.
would be nice, too.
I don't consider you
a reliable reporter
on your brother's
costs, frankly.
\_ Costs in
dollars?
Answer *my*
question.
What if I
said it cost
me zero
dollars, but
a year in
prison? What
would that
mean to you?
/
/
I asked first, I believe. It is hard to
value what a year in prison is worth. More
than a years salary, for sure, maybe 5X
if it was a Club Fed kind of minimum security
prison, much more if it was an ass-raping
AIDS sentence kind of prison. What would
it be worth to you?
\_ See, I knew your attitude was like this, which is why
I don't take you seriously enough to answer. If I said
it cost me $500K you would consider that to be
equivalent to a year in prison? I value my time, my
freedom, and, yes, my identity a lot more than you do.
If I have to go down to the DMV three times to fix my
records that, to me, is a lot bigger pain than 3 days
of salary. So I don't think you really understand how
much being inconvenienced really means to many people.
You just want to boil it all down to some dollar amount
and that's not really useful information to have. For
instance, in my case, I still get notices from other
counties about fines "I" haven't paid and vehicles "of
mine" that have been impounded. Usually it doesn't cost me
much in dollars to resolve these (a phone call and a letter
or two) but that doesn't mean the cost isn't high. I very
well could wind up in jail for some unpaid fine I
didn't know "I" had. When I resolve each of these items
is it truly resolved or will some clerk somewhere screw
it up? So stop worrying about the dollars lost and
focus on the gravity of the situation.
\_ Old age kills a lot more than that each
each, and with much lower variance.
Almost no research is being allocated
on this problem though. -- ilyas
\_ What are you talking about, the
diseases of old age (cancer, heart
disease, etc.) get tons of research
money. -jrleek
\_ I mean mortality itself. -- ilyas
\_ That's being researched as well
"Why we age," etc. -jrleek
\_ I meant the research
spending on this is
completely out of proportion
with the severity of the
problem. -- ilyas
\_ It's at times like this
where there's really
only one response.
You Are A Fucking Moron.
\_ Whereas your response
is about all we need to
know about you. Why don't
you sign your name? Would
you say that to his face?
\_ Politically, research into
mortality itself might
appear to be blasphemous.
After all it's not death
itself that is supposed to
be a problem but merely
suffering... I suppose. |
| 2007/11/19-26 [Finance/Banking, Finance/CC] UID:48660 Activity:kinda low |
11/19 Prosper update. I am getting 13.3% on my loans there, but one of them
is now 45+ days lates. If that one is a write-off, as seems increasingly
likely, my ROI will be about 11% over my first year there. Not too
shabby, but we shall see how it goes as this credit crunch thing
plays out. Lately I have been getting better rates, but I suspect
the risk is higher, too.
\_ that is awesome. How much was your initial stake?
and what are your parameters for which ones you invest in?
\_ I am only taking AA, A and B rated borrowers who have a debt/
income ratio under 30%. My initial stake is just a couple
thousand, as I am just sort of checking it out for now.
\_ Who verifies this debt/income ratio?
\_ Prosper does.
\_ How?
\_ How are you getting more than a credit card loan?
\_ The magic of the market? The invisible hand at work? How
do you expect me to answer this question? This is what people
with reasonably good credit are willing to pay to borrow money.
Not AA credit, but B credit, with a low Debt/Income and home
owners to boot. I could get more, but then my default risk
would go up, too.
\_ Maybe people are willing to pay more on the bet that if they
default you are less likely to send them to collections?
\_ No, all defaulted debt is automatically sent to collections.
\_ No, all defaulted debt is automatically sent to
collections.
\_ How many loans have you made over that period?
\_ Around 50.
\_ I looked at prosper when it was first mentioned on the motd. I
wouldn't risk a penny on any of those people. I'm glad you've
made some bucks but your risk looks way higher than the interest
rates these people are paying. There's a very good reason they
can't get money from more traditional sources. |
| 12/25 |
| 2007/2/23-26 [Finance/CC, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:45807 Activity:nil |
2/23 B of A starts offering credit cards to people w/o SSN:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070222/us_nm/bankofamerica_immigrants_dc
That's strange. My dad got a B of A credit card in 1980 when he
didn't have an SSN and was on a work visa in the Bay Area. Today he
still doesn't have an SSN and is still using the card overseas
regularly. |
| 2006/7/21-25 [Finance/Investment, Finance/CC] UID:43759 Activity:kinda low |
7/21 I understand valet tipping is now customarily $2 (up from $1).
Is it customary to tip the valet if, let's say, there is a required
$2.50 or $3 fee to use the valet, and you're driving let's say an
1999 Camry? What about required fees of $5 or higher?
What do you do?
\_ To avoid this stupid discussion again, look:
http://csua.com/?entry=27200
http://csua.com/?entry=42275
http://csua.com/?entry=42038
http://csua.com/?entry=41928
http://csua.com/?entry=36732
http://csua.com/?entry=34977
http://csua.com/?entry=34956
http://csua.com/?entry=33171
http://csua.com/?entry=26270
http://csua.com/?entry=18819
\_ Generally, tips are independent of any "mandatory" charge. A
gratuity is a thank you for good service and is voluntary,
I don't care what anyone says. -John
\- i'm sort of curious what your actual
tipping range is in USA restaurants.
say what percentage of the time do you
tip under 10%? BTW, do you also consider
wedding gifts optional? was it holube
who considered wedding gifts optional
but considers tips "mandatory"?
\_ was it passb who considers "holube" a clever
insult? Wedding gifts are optional if you
didn't attend the wedding. -tom
\_ They are mandatory if you did attend?
\_ By etiquette, yes. -tom
john advisory: are you from SF? the situation
in SF has gotten sort of complicated with the
minimum wage law change since it doesnt have
a tip credit ... it basically takes money away
from the worst paid employees [busboys, dishwasher
etc] and xfers more money to the much-higher-paid
and certainly over minwage frontroom wait staff.
one restaurant owner [i think at incanto] responded
by creating a "mandatory" service charge, which
made a lot of people go insane. then again most
people cant think in economically rational
manner and people seem to have amazing ability
for self-serving delusion per the corkage
article recently discussed in the motd.
\_ OK, we'll just cut your salary in half, then, and expect you
to make it up on tips. -tom
\_ Bad example; I'm an independent consultant and if I don't
deliver, or provide crappy service, I don't get paid. Why
should I be compelled to pay someone anything beyond the
indicated price if he's a surly shit? -John
\_ Gee, I didn't know I could refuse to pay my independent
consultants if they are surly. Does it say that in
your contract?
You are compelled to pay according to whatever the local
tipping rules are, because their salaries have been
cut with the expectation that they will make the rest
on tips. The U.S. would be a better place if waiters
earned a real wage and tipping were truly gratuitous,
but they don't and it's not. -tom
\_ No, you're able to not pay them if they do not
provide the service they are contracted to do. In
the case of service personnel, part of their job
is to provide me with civil, competent service. If
they do not, it should reflect on their earnings. And
tipping is fine, it gives me a chance to stiff the
guy throwing a snit while serving me. -John
\_ But it's not OK for someone to stiff you for
throwing a snit, of course. -tom
\_ Apples and oranges. A waiter might get a
$100 tip or a $0 tip. A better waiter will
usually make more than a poor one. I happen
to think that waiters actually benefit from
the current system. A decent waiter can make
$60K/year easy. Without tips, it's probably
half that.
\- 1. the true distribution is not $100 or $0.
and you need to talk in terms of percentages
anyway. a server at a boulevard may get
a $100 tip but will never ever get $0.
the waiter at the neighborhood pasta restaurant
is never ever going to get $100. so i think
the tip distribution has probably 90% of its
mass in the 12%-22% range. 2. i think tip
pooling among the frontroom staff is not
uncommon, so the poor waiter can be
shielded. 3. the waiters even benfitted
more from the fact that there is no
tip credit in CA when it comes to min wage
[this is for waiters at decent places].
4. i think $60k is a bit high for your
waiter salary estimate [do waiters
work 40hr weeks?].
See e.g.
work 40hr weeks?]. See e.g.
http://http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/28844
for some details on reasonably high end
restaurant operation. As well as:
http://csua.org/u/gi2
\_ If you have a crappy waiter, SOP is to give
the manager a tip and tell him to make sure
the bus boy gets it. Stiffing bus boys is
king lame. And Partha, my mom has a
culinary placement company in SF, so I'm
well aware of the tipping & wage situation.
I'm also aware that a good waiter can pull
upwards of $100k, a lot of it effectively
tax free. -John
\- What percentile would you guess $60k
and $100k are in terms of waiter incomes
in SF?
\- What fraction of waiters in SF would
you say make $60k or more? $100k or more?
Yes, I realize there are escalatory
ways of dealing with exceptionally
lame service, but I dont think most
people resort do that ... and they are
pretty rare events i'd say. i agree
routing the tip to the mgs is a good
routing the tip to the mgr is a good
way to deal with the situation.
[I personally weigh intentional things
like snooty obnoxiousness [Aqua] more
heavily than minor incompetence [dropped
plate ... that stuff happens]]. I've
sort of decided to put up with less
deliberately bad service and walk out
of places.
BTW, I do agree with you than the getting
rid of tipping is probably not the way
to go, although I dont think the
status quo is perfect. It's sort of
like rent control ... there are pros
and cons ... one regime not unambiguously
better than the other.
and cons ... one regime not "pareto
superior" to the other.
\_ I'm not interested in how much a
waiter makes, or what percentage of
waiters make >$60k (a good number in
more upscale restaurants). That is
not my problem. In a restaurant, I am
paying for the experience as much as
for the food. If a waiter is being
a shit (surprise, it does happen), I
should make sure the owner knows this
(maybe through the manager) as he has
a financial stake in the business. In
the meantime, I will not give "hey,
thanks, good job" money to a waiter,
bellhop, cabbie or anyone else who
gives me a shitty attitude (note that
I'm not talking about incompetence or
inexperience here.) There is no
obligation to tip, but if you feel
your service was ok or better, some
conventions apply. -John
\- I understand what you are saying.
I am just sort of curious what
%age of the time or how many times
per year the service hits the
threashold of not tipping,
rerouting the tip etc. In the past
15 years say, i can think of maybe
10ish incidents ... in one case
[in durant court] we left a 5cent
tip that was thrown at us as we
we leaving, but i really havent
caused a scene in a med/highend
place. [sometimes because i was
somebody else guest, in other cases
because the management made it up
sort of [free bottle of wine] etc.
if this is something you do 1-2%
od the time [like inb my case],
od the time [like in my case],
then it's more sort of an ad hoc
reaction, than your "standard
behavior for bad service". i think
the place where i most frquently
get annoyed are bars where the
bartender is lame about imple-
menting FIFO. i guess i have caused
a scene in a high end place but we
left a very very large tip :-).
Not often, to be honest--maybe about 10 times in the last 5 _/
years. I have a pretty high tolerance; usually I just leave
a lower tip if service is really bad enough to make me notice.
However, we frequently go to nice restaurants, and I know what I can
expect for a given price, so I don't hesitate to ask for a different
waiter. I've only walked out on a place once or twice, and usually
I'll tell the manager if something really pisses me off (normally
they're very cool about it.) I dislike waiters being snippy, being
ignored, having food take a very long time even when we ask about it,
pissy reactions when a dish isn't acceptable, and worst of all, "do
you want your change?" The problem is that most people feel a bit
intimidated and think they owe the waiter something, and are afraid
to speak up when something really sucks. -John
\_ Once a waitress argued with us that a certain item was not on the
menu. We said that it was. She said it was not. We again told
her it was. She again said it was not. We asked for the menu.
She was wrong. This was a fairly nice restaurant (Campanile in
LA). The manager overheard the whole thing and gave us free
dessert. That is acceptable and she got a 15% tip. Since two
of my sisters (and their two boyfriends) are in the restaurant
business (GM, chef, waitress, and sommelier) in nice SF
restaurants I can definitely say that $60K isn't a problem if
you are experienced and that you really shouldn't leave less
than 10% even if the service sucked. However, you should
complain to the GM. It is the GM's job to make things right.
Also, without tipping, I really do think waiters/waitresses
would make a whole lot less money and as a result the quality
of service (already poor in most cases) would get worse as
professionals left for other jobs. Tipping works well, because
when the restaurant does well so does everyone and when the
restaurant does poorly then everyone suffers. No sense keeping
waiters on at $60K+ when business is bad.
\_ Only once in the last five years have I not tipped, and that
was at the Grill place across the street from the Piedmont
Landmark Theater (formerly a Rolling Dunes): the entire wait
staff were rude and indolent. We did not tip, and we will not
be back. --erikred
\_ Funny, that's in my neighberhood, I go there all the time,
and get fine and friendly service. Chris, the owner and
often bartender, is the only shop owner on the street
(except for the yogurt place) who knows me and greets me
on sight.
One thing to remember is that waiters have to deal with
obnoxious customers a lot more often than you have to
deal with obnoxious waiters. We all have bad days. -tom
\_ Agreed, but this was beyond the pale. This was mid-day,
and the fan above our table was casting a shadow that was
making all four of us dizzy and queasy. We asked a waiter
if it would be possible to turn it off; he went off to ask
someone, but never came back to tell us one way or the
other. We asked another waiter and finally the person who
looked like the manager at the time, and were similarly
blown off. At the same time, our orders arrived and were
wrong; even though there were only three groups of
customers there including us, no one ever came by to see
if we needed more water, more food, or even the bill. We
eventually went to the bar to ask for our bill, and when
we paid, we left no tip. Please understand, I have friends
who are waiters and I am sympathetic to the plight of the
working wait staff, but this level of silliness was
untenable. --erikred
\- i think "routing around" the problem works when the problem
is a lame/snooty/etc waiter, but there are some establishements
that have that problem [farralon, aqua, various medium level but
hot and packed placed in the mission], i wonder if they will do
anything. or even at say zacharies, a place i think is sort of
customer unfriendly. re: the "feel they owe their waiter
something" ... i think in part they feel they will be thought
of a cheep [perhaps "justifying" in the waiters mind thinking
"these guys are declasse"] if they just leave a small tip without
elaborating on the reason. and most people may not have the
personality to say something beyond the tip.
\_ Weird. I have been to Farralon three times and Aqua once
and all four times I had great service. How many times
have you been to Aqua? -ausman
\_ I, too, had superb service at Aqua the one time I went.
--erikred
\_ If you leave a 10% tip they definitely get the idea
that you are either dissatisfied or declasse. You have
to tell the manager why if you want them to know which.
All I am saying is that 10% is low enough that they will
know something's up. I know people who stiff the
waitstaff and I've only do that in an extreme situation
(e.g. the one time I was asked to not patronize a
particular restaurant ever again). As for Zachary's, it
is very unfriendly to customers. The cash only policy is
evidence of that.
\- along with no RSVP, no pitchers of soda,
exploiting children etc.
\_ Again, stiffing the "waitstaff" is lame. The busboy
can't help it if the waiter's a prick. Nor can the
waiter if the restaurant has crappy policies. Use your
own judgment, and as psb says, let the GM know, they
need to be aware of this sort of stuff. But I've been at
Farallon 7-8 times and never had bad service. -John
\_ Tipping is fundamentally a way to enforce class
structure. The wealthy (restaurant/valet/hotel/taxi
patrons) want to have the right to punish the servants
for insolence. Look at the sense of entitlement
displayed in the comments in this thread; it's really
pretty sad. -tom
\_ Uh...I want to punish someone who gives me crappy
service and bad attitude. In shops, I can't do
this to the sales clerk directly, in restaurants I
can. Don't turn this into some pseudo-Marxist class
warfare claptrap. I's a not tryin to keep the po'
folk in they's place, just have a nice dinner
without some snotty shit spoiling it. 15% says
"you did a reasonable job, thanks". 10% = "you did
not do a good job." Anything less, including 0% =
"you suck, fuck you." That's my right as a
customer. -John
\_ Ponder these two questions:
1) How did the tipping rules get developed in
the U.S.? Why is the waiter tipped and
the shopkeeper not?
2) Why are relatively large tips customary
in the U.S. and generally not elsewhere? -tom
\_ The shop clerk (not shopkeeper, wrong
comparison) is not tipped because he is
not providing a service in the same class
as the waiter, shoe shine guy, taxi driver,
etc.; many salesmen also get commission.
\_ Commission is not the same as tipping.
And what is different about the class
of service being provided by a taxi
driver vs. a shop clerk? Non-circular
definition, please. -tom
\_ The shop clerk is selling me an item.
His manner of selling it, strictly
speaking, is not part of the overall
experience I am paying for. With a
waiter or cab driver, it is (how nice
is the service, how smooth is the
ride.) Same with shoe-shine guys,
or valets. What's your point? -John
\_ That's a crock; plenty of shops
provide personal service at or
above the level of shoe-shine-boy.
(Like a shoe store, for one). -tom
\- i agree there is something "american" about
the tipping system ... compared to a more
"socialist" system [modulo tip pooling], but
i think holube is overstating things. where i
think there is a class system is the disparity bt/
frontroom staff and the often minority back
of the house people like the dish washing crew
who are paid lower and certainly work hard
and get no part of the tip pool. under a sort
of rawlsian theory i'd rather see increased
spoils going to them rather than the wiatstaff
[in re: sf min wage change]. and i also think
at reasonable standard resturants the waitstaff
are not just passive agents to their fate ...
i think some probably consciously tailor
behavior to who the expect better tips from ...
and if they guess wrong, well they deserve to
lose out a bit. [i've seen white businessmen
in their 50s get much better service than
i did when in my late 20s at places like aqua.
analogous to the bartender who give better
service to hot chicks who are lousy tippers ...
at least in cash.]
\_ Hello, there is no tipping in Japan and yet the wait
staff are still professional and polite. I see no
reason to reward wait staff here who cannot do this.
I'm not expecting anything more than civility and
politeness; I'm certainly not looking for servility.
\_ Paying 15% in the U.S. isn't "rewarding" wait
staff; it's paying their wage. More than 15%
could reasonably be construed as reward. -tom
\_ This is an semi-invisible system in that the
general public is not usually made aware that
wait staff's salaries have been depleted to
the point where tips mean the difference
surviving or not. I agree that the situation
needs to fixed (i.e., adjust wages to comp),
but relying on customer support of an
unpublished system sounds broken. That said,
I generally tip 20%. --erikred
\_ It's not really an unpublished system;
it's part of etiquette. I agree that
the system is untenable, and I think it's
particularly onerous because it has its
roots in slavery and the culture surrounding
it. I certainly don't think I get better
service in the U.S. compared to overseas
in countries where tipping is not
customary (because they pay full wages).
-tom
\_ In many other countries, being a
waiter is a career choice. In the
US (except at high-end restaurants)
it is not. The quality of service
reflects this. However, I can't say
that I've gotten really great
service at dive restaurants in, say,
Europe either. I think your ideas
about the nature of tipping are
crazy. As I said before, I think
most waiters make out better by
earning tips than they would without.
\_ It is basically unpublished. There are
so many immigrants here in the bay area
for example that it's not realistic to
expect everyone to be on the same page
wrt tipping. I see that clearly with
coworkers. They have no idea. I never
really analyzed it in detail either...
sure you see your parents and others
do the 15% thing but the details are
not explained. How many people know
how the tips apply to busboys? What
do you do in buffet restaurants? The
tipping system seems like a good one
for a more homogeneously civilized
society but not apropos now. (One
coworker from India thought it was
ok to tip almost nothing at a lunch
joint. Of course he also liked to talk
about the dirt-cheap food and services
in India where regular engineers had
full-time chauffeurs etc.)
\- having a chauffeur in india is like
having somebody mow your lawn here.
but your major point stands: indians
treat service class people like
shit and tip like shit. the latter
is a social norm diffcult to change
but there is no excuse for the
former. a dramatic case of this is
how westerners and indians deal with
say trekking guides and porters ...
on the other hand, i think indians
are often pretty low maint when it
comes to "special requests". |
| 2006/7/12-18 [Finance/CC, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43652 Activity:nil |
7/12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js0vOgjBfD8 Use your head to solve problems \_ Could have been done so much better. \_ I thought this was hilarious: http://csua.org/u/gey |
| 2006/7/10-11 [Finance/CC] UID:43617 Activity:nil |
7/10 Citibank mastercard changes me 3% when I use the card in Canada.
WTF? What are some other cards that charge less? 3% is just
ridiculous.
\_ Capital One is supposed to be the only major credit card provider
left that doesn't charge extra for charging outside the country.
http://csua.org/u/gdq (sfgate.com, June 25, 2006)
\_ Anyone know what Amex rates are?
\_ 2%, still better than many others with 3%, but not as good as
those rare 1% only ones.
\_ http://csua.org/u/gdp (travelfinances.com)
don't know how correct it is, but the site looks maintained
\_ Doesn't look all that up-to-date. Capital One no longer absorbs
the 1% VISA charge, but they still don't charge anything beyond
that, which is why I use their card the most. |
| 2006/2/19-23 [Finance/CC, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:41928 Activity:kinda low |
2/18 Does anyone know whether or not it is legal for a restaurant to
withhold wages/tips from a waiter if a customer leaves without paying?
This seems totally illegal to me but my google legal fu is weak.
\_ Wages, no. Tips, the portion the customer might reasonably be
expected to tip. -dans
\- i doubt that is legal. in CA management cannot force the
tips to be shared with anybody not directly involved in
front room service [can share with busboy butr not dishwasher
front room service [can share with busboy but not dishwasher
or cooks]. in fact i would think this is covered under some
broader employment rules about you cant charge employees for
fuckups like this. i can ask a acquiantance who is a chef-owner
fuckups like this. i can ask an acquiantance who is a chef-owner
in SF about the dine&&dash situation.
\_ might depend on locale... see #9
http://waiterrant.blogspot.com/2005/07/check-please-ah-check-my-favorite-part.html
\_ That guy needs to seriously get a different job.
\_ http://www.restaurant.org/legal/ask_archives.cfm -- whoops, next
link down.
\_ This answers the question. Since most waiters make minimum
wage (in CA), it's going to be illegal in most cases.
\_ at least in santa clara county, you can call for a quick 20min
free legal referral
\_ It's illegal in all states my contact at the Golden Gate Rest.
Assn. knows of. If someone doesn't pay for a meal, obviously
there's no tip for that meal for the rest. owner to withhold, but
they may not withhold money from any of the other tips. Nor can
they charge waiters for broken dishes or the likes. That said,
there is a good reason why most people who matter in any given
restaurant loathe waiters (especially primadonna prissy
whores like the blogspot guy above). Good ones are few and very
far between and deserve a nice fat cash tip. -John
\- Your GGRA assicate isnt named "Dan" is he?
\_ No, it's my friend Vinnie da Pesto Hammer. -John |
| 2006/1/20-23 [Finance/CC, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:41461 Activity:kinda low |
1/20 So some guy (with an obvious Indian accent) calls me at home
and says he's calling about some govt consumer grant where I can
get up to $5000 and they will send me a package with an application
and I can apply for the grant? I was skeptical and just asked him
if he was from India and he got pissed off and hung up on me. So,
do all the soda motders think this guy was really working for the
govt and that they were calling me so I could apply for a grant,
or is it more likely some scam? He knew my name already, and
didn't ask for any more information from me.
\- maybe he was really from pakistan.
\_ I'm from the Government and I'm here to help!
\_ Maybe you should've asked if he was *in* India.
\_ Well, I asked him where he was and he said he was in
St. Petersberg, FL. Later, I asked if he was from India.
He said his last name was Rodgers, but he had an obvious
foreign accent. -op
\_ Sounds like a scam to me. Here:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/scam_alerts/grant.html
But here's a rule of thumb: if it appeals to your greed, it's
likely to be a scam. I mean, how eager are you to give someone
something for nothing? --PM
\- one of my credit card companies offered me i think $25,000
for a year at 0% interest for $75 up front. after it became
clear i didnt "need" the money, we actually had sort of an
interesting conversation ... i said "that is below mkt interest"
and she said she knew but they sort of rely on people screwing
up and not being able to pay back or forgetting ... and then
complimented be on having a high savings rate. that was a weirdly
refreshing conversation. you got the sense the person at the
other end was reasonable sharp and not a telemarketing drone.
\_ YMEW
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/view |
| 2006/1/5-7 [Finance/CC, Consumer/TV] UID:41248 Activity:nil |
1/5 Planet of the Apes Complete TV Series, see "similar items"
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=1596594
\_ No, seriously, wtf?
\_ Oh darn someone updated the web site
Everybody Loves Raymond, Friends, and SW Trilogy indeed.
\_ did you find this yourself or did you read it somewhere?
Article on this found:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/01/06/financial/f032509S62.DTL |
| 2005/12/23-28 [Finance/CC] UID:41131 Activity:kinda low |
12/23 Thanks for the Taiwan visit tips.
In the meantime I've found some links listing rates for ATM withdrawals
and credit card purchases, and another link on travellers check cards.
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/20050624b1.asp
http://csua.org/u/efg (europeforvisitors.com)
My conclusion (for a trip to Taiwan) is that the travellers check cards
suck, ATM / credit cards are okay, and the AmEx Travelers Cheque is
best (with an AmEx card membership to avoid the 1% fee) if you cash the
checks at the AmEx office one stop north of the SOGO dept store.
The biggest hassle is finding a local AmEx office where you can buy the
checks at 0% (although they are 0% at Wells Fargo if you have an
Advantage checking account with $2,000 minimum daily balance).
Shee-it! I just noticed the Capitol One credit cards charge 0% AND
absorb the usual 1% Visa/MC conversion fee if you use it to charge
something in foreign currency. That takes care of restaurants that
take credit cards I guess.
Also, http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/graffiti81.html the consensus
for Europe is ATMs, just like what another sodan wrote, and that
travellers checks suck.
\_ if you need help when you get here, shoot me an email. kngharv |
| 2005/10/11-13 [Finance/CC, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Recreation/Humor] UID:40045 Activity:high Cat_by:auto |
10/11 "I Can't Afford My Gasoline" (has sound)
http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/178/index.php
\_ Once we hit $6/gallon, those hybrids will start to look attractive,
too.
\_ It's been over $6/gallon in Europe. Cost me 34 Euro for a half
tank of gas on a Ford Fiesta (rental car) 2 weeks ago. Figures
it would cost around $85 for a full tank. And we're taking puny
car.
\_ do you have a choice? how about Ford Ka?
\_ I don't buy cars that chops heads off of cats.
\_ I probably did, but didn't know how to say it in Spanish.
\_ Where in Europe? Get a SMART.
\_ Was in Spain (Madrid), I don't think Avis has SMART; besides
I don't know if I'd fit in it (too tall).
\_ A colleague of mine drives one. He's 6'6", about 250lbs.
He got it because of the leg room. -John
\_ Take the train. |
| 2005/9/3-4 [Finance/CC] UID:39469 Activity:moderate |
9/3 When you use your CC in Canada, what kind of exchange rate and
fee do they charge? I'm asking because I got ripped off by my
Chase Freedom card. They gave me a 0.8246 exchange rate even
though at the time, it was really 0.835X. They also attached
an exchange rate adjustment fee, which was 2.9%. What a rip
off! Are there other CC that give you a better rate? ok thx
\_ Maybe it was because you were using your "freedom card" in
a French part of Canada.
\_ Typically, credit cards charge about 3% coversion fee. Some it's
as low as 1%. I've never seen anything less than 1%.
\_ Major credit cards have started charging 3% effective mid 2005.
It used to be that MBNA and Capital One were the last bastions of
1% foreign currency surcharge, but no more, starting Oct 1 '05.
Look for credit union-issued Visa/Mastercard that still charges
1%.
\_ MBNA isn't 1% any more? Those bastards!
\_ I withdrew money from Wells Fargo acct in the UK, they didn't charge
any fees. |
| 2005/7/14-15 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/CC, Recreation/Dating] UID:38617 Activity:low |
7/14 http://sportsbybrooks.com/Denise1.html - more Denise! \_ so what? fake tits and a vacant stare? there's no shortage of that in Hollywood. \_ Here's a more interesting pic: http://sportsbybrooks.com/events.html \_ Hot chicks sorted by ... \_ Is there some significance to this particular cheesecake? \_ Looks like a chick I met in a Reno stripclub who came to visit me in the Bay Area, but this was before the boob job. |
| 2005/6/30 [Finance/CC] UID:38382 Activity:nil |
6/30 Dunno who nuked the motd, but a comment on the credit card thread.
I've carried ~$20,000 debt on different credit cards for ~4-5 yrs.
APR: 0%, one card rolled over into the next. |
| 2005/6/30-7/1 [Finance/CC] UID:38377 Activity:high |
6/30 How many credit cards do you have?
\_ 4-6: I've carried ~$20,000 debt on different credit cards for
~4-5 yrs, APR: 0%, one card rolled over into the next. Had to be
careful enough to switch banks each time I roll a 0% apr into the
card. But I really only use one card for most of my purchases
that I do pay off every month.
\_ 3 but never carry any of them, use only one for making purchases,
and pay off the balance every month.
\_ I have 3 as well (BofA Visa, Citi MC and Amex Blue). I only
carry the Visa and the MC. I use the Visa for all my purchases
except for gas. I use the MC for gas b/c I get 5% cash back on
all gas purchases. I have the Amex Blue b/c it was free for
life when I was in school and they used to have the 1 time CC
number. I stopped using Amex Blue as my main card when the 1
time CC number program was discontinued. Now it just sits at
home gathering dust.
\_ does your 5% cashback offer have a cap of $300/yr (eg. $6k
in purchases) ?
\_ Not AFAIK.
\_ I bet it does. Not that it really matters though.
Also, Citibank offers 1-time card numbers.
\_ Do you know what the url is for 1 time cc numbers?
\_ There's a link somewhere on your account
details page.
\_ 2
\_ 1
\_ Related poll: Do you pay off the balances every month?
Yes: ...
No:
Both: .
Will eat out of dumpster before carying a balance, death to cc
companies: ..
\_ Good advice I once heard: "How can you tell if you are in
financial trouble? If you don't pay off your credit cards'
balance every month, you're in financial trouble.
\_ Not sure I agree with this. It's along the lines of
people who advise to pay for everything cash, including
big ticket items like cars. There are lots of times it
makes sense to carry debt. The most common is when that
debt is working for you, like if you borrow to open a
business or to pay for school. Debt-free is not
necessarily a good thing.
\_ Not lots. Three: School, business, home. That's it.
Anything else and you're a fucking idiot. I would
say that carrying debt on a vehicle you're buying for
work counts under the second item, though.
\_ Furthermore, you're also an idiot if you're doing
any of this ON A CREDIT CARD. If you can make debt
\_ More fundamentally, CC type debt (rolling balances)
vs. amortized loans are a huge pain. Getting back
on top of a rolling balance is HARD.
work for you at 21% intrest, I'm sure you can get
it to work harder at 5% intrest.
\_ A couple of friends work the 1.9% credit card balance
transfer deals. This is very cheap money, but you
have to be careful about making payments.
\_ No shit. Who is paying 21%?! In many cases
\_ Lots of people.
it makes a lot of sense to use a CC instead
of a secured loan.
\_ Interesting. I'd say you're an idiot to use up
valuable cash to buy a car, but that's me. Lots of
companies take loans out to buy things they can
pay cash for, so that the cash can do something
else. Cash is hard to come by. I try not to spend
it if I can help it, even if it means taking out
small loans. Lots of wealthy friends do the same
thing, which is where I learned it. They buy their
Porsches on a 24 month loan so that they don't
have to suddenly cough up $100K, even though they
have the cash, for example.
\_ If I had a billion dollars in the bank and
infinite credit, I would still never spend
100k on a car.
\_ How nice for you. You sound boring.
\_ You sound stupid.
\_ Stupid is having a billion dollars
cash and pinching pennies.
\_ Who said anything about pinching
pennies? I'd have a helicopter,
a boat, a truck, heavy equipment
and lots of land, but I fucking
hate cars. You'd have to *pay* me
to own a fucking car. A privelige
of wealth for me would be to own
land near enough to wherever I work to
never drive.
\_ If this is the case then your inane
comment was off topic and doesn't
belong here. I thought it's well
understood in the thread that we're
talking about car purchases by people
who _need_ a car.
\_ railing against cars is never off
topic. And no one is buying a
100k porsche because they *need*
a car. If you have the cash to
buy a 100k car you have the cash
to re-arange your life a little
to not be a fucking car driving
zombie.
\_ You need to seek help from a mental
health professional.
\_ Ride a motorcycle, way funner
than driving.
\_ So's running barefoot across sharp
rocks, but you don't see me doing
that to get to work either.
\_ And your chances of hurting someone
with your idiotic driving are much
lower. Of course, your own chances
of being killed by an idiot driver
are much higher...
\_ True, I'm just saying,
hatred of driving is what
got both me and my brother
on motorcycles.
\_ if you can get 10% money market, and your credit card
loan is 1%, where would you put your money?
\_ Show me a real life example of this. Not to
meantion, it's generic advice. That doesn't mean
there aren't strange exceptions.
\_ In my real life, American Express offered a lifetime
2.9% balance transfer option. So I charged new windows
for my house to my credit card, transferred it to
American Express and used the cash to buy 5%
government bonds. I get $300/year for free!
\_ This is pretty amazing. Just out of
curiousity though, don't you have to pay
taxes on the bond interest at the full 5%?
What percentage are you actually getting?
How much money did you have to use? I assume
if you miss a payment, AmEx screws you bad.
\_ No, it is a muni bond. $15k. Yes, if I
\_ No, it is a muni bond. 2.99%. $15k. Yes, if I
miss a payment, I plan on paying it all
off.
\_ How did 2.99% become 5%?
\_ Your question is unclear. What percentage
am I actually getting on what? The
percentage Amex is charging me is
actually 2.99%. I checked after
you asked. The percentage I am
actually getting on my bonds depends
on which one I am buying with borrowed
money. The one that most closely matches
the term of the credit card balance gives
me just over 5%. If you bought the same
bond today you would get about 4%.
CUSIP: 486375DS4
\_ FWIW, missing a payment nowadays is easily
avoidable as long as you have the funds in your
checking. Use your banks auto-pay ebill
system, or even the credit card might have an
auto-pay system.
\_ about 10: . |
| 2005/4/26-27 [Finance/CC, Computer/Domains] UID:37362 Activity:low |
4/25 I got a debt collection notice because I signed up for a $6 domain
name under a fake first name but correct last name, and I'm not sure
exactly what happened after that, but I couldn't manage to get it
to accept my valid credit card number. I think it's probably because
they wouldn't let me specify an alternate name for billing. Anyway,
I didn't really use that domain and forgot about it, and assumed
they would just cancel the domain or something. I mean really, if they
accept my card and then order the domain and then don't charge my
card (which is perfectly chargeable), it's their fault. What do you
think I should do about the notice, though? It's for 21.94, and I'm
against paying that on principle.
\_ Pay it. You'll want a house someday, and you don't want a
lingering petty debt on your report. There is no principle
at stake here. You wanted them to bill with a mismatched
name and they couldn't/didn't.
\_ The bill is actually not in my name. They accepted the billing
info, ordered the domain, then declined to charge the card.
\_ You are in the wrong. You should have cancelled. I am
sure they tried to charge your card. Pay them and ask
them not to report you. It's not worth your time.
\_ They accepted the billing info and then did not charge
the card. I attempted several times to correct the
information before giving up. The last name is the same.
They could perfectly well have charged the card; I've
done the same with magazine subscriptions.
\_ Did they set you up with a domain or not? It sounds
like they did. You owe them.
\_ Amd I was perfectly happy to pay them if they were
happy to charge my card, which they did not.
All sensible businesses these days get credit
card authorization before providing a service.
Presumably they had authorized my card. Not
following through on the charge seems to be their
fault. I didn't feel like I should have to struggle
with contacting them just to have them charge me.
\_ Did they provide you a service? If so, you
owe them. They are making it easy to pay now,
so do it.
\_ Agreed that it's easier just to pay it but you might be able to
dispute it on the grounds that since they declined your card and
never gave you an order confirmation they failed to render services.
And since they never gave you a bill you are not liable for any
late-payment penalties. But how much is your time worth?
\_ I don't know, is it legal to register the domain under a
false name? Is it legal to use your credit card under a
false name?
\_ Your credit has already been damaged if you got a debt collection
notice. Paying it won't help that.
\_ Not true. Lots of times it hasn't been reported yet,
especially for a small amount like this. They give you a
chance to cough up the money before spending $50 or whatever
it is to report you. I've been in this situation a few times
(mostly with doctors with confusing billing, but not only
that) and was never reported. The collection agency said not
to pay the doctor, but I did anyway and the problem went
away. I have like an 800 credit score.
\_ You should have sent them an e-mail saying, "Your ordering system
gave me a domain, but wouldn't accept my credit card number.
Please cancel my domain if you are unable to charge my card."
By not writing this e-mail, you left the ball in their court.
They noticed the domain was active for some time, noticed you
hadn't been charged yet, and based on this, sought debt collection.
You are well within your rights to explain the situation and offer
$6.
If you don't want to waste your time, pay $21.94 and write it off
as a loss. |
| 2005/4/8 [Finance/CC] UID:37123 Activity:nil |
4/8 Is there any downside to setting your fraud alert flag at the credit
agency even if there's no report that you've been compromised?
\_ You may get rejected for 'unusual' purchases, meaning locations
and types of stores that don't fit your usual patterns.
\_ I assume you mean for credit card purchases. Won't a call to
the credit card issuer clear that up? More difficult to do
overseas, but trivial domestically in this cell phone age. Seems
like a small price for stronger security.
\_ Yes it would clear it up, but you've now turned a 2-minute
purchase into a half hour conference call.
\_ I would think that "unusual" purchases are by definition
"uncommon".
\_ When I visited China 1.5 years ago I noticed that their credit cards
have passwords, much like ATM cards have PIN's. Is it just
because Americans are lazy and forgetful that we don't have that?
\_ Considering how much I hear that crime is
expanding in china; it makes sense. I hear from a
friend of mine that the "entertainment" industry is
doing especially well.
\_ We have passwords on our credit cards too. It's called yermom's
maiden name.
\_ Nobody ever asks for that when I make purchases.
\_ Some gas pumps ask for ZIP code, althought that's not very useful
since crooks can just try the ZIP code of wherever they steal the
cards.
\_ you will have to go through more loopholes for things like
loan applications, lines of credit, new credit cards, auto
financing and the like. Basically, any application for new
or more credit.
\_ But isn't it *good* if credit applications require stronger
proof? Besides, can't you just remove the flag before you
know you're going to apply for something, and then just reset
the flag afterwards? Setting the flag is free, after all.
\_ in other words, you're not disagreeing with me.
\_ Since the original post asked for "any downside", I
assumed you would consider "more loopholes[sic]" to be a
downside. In that sense, I am not sure I agree, as my
post indicated. |
| 2005/3/30 [Finance/CC] UID:36967 Activity:high |
3/30 Why can't the Social Security office issue new SSN's for people whose
numbers are stolen, similar to what credit card companies do when cards
are stolen? Thanks.
\_ It's more complicated than that. Do you change your name when there's
an identity thift?
\_ No, but I change my credit card numbers. Obviously I'm missing
something. Please elaborate. I thought since credit card
companies could issue new card numbers for the same card account,
the SS office should be able to issue new SSN for the same SS
account.
\_ 2-4-6-0-1 !! |
| 2005/3/13-15 [Finance/CC] UID:36670 Activity:kinda low |
3/13 What's the deal with this academic conference spam? Are any of these
real conferences, or are they scams to get email addresses and credit
card numbers? I get quite a few of these, and they don't seem to care
that none of the conferences are even close to my field.
\_ The one someone forwarded to me came from an ISP account and was
relayed through China. Looks like a new virus or some such. -tom
\_ Many academics, me included, get a phenomenal number from the
"World Multi-Conference on Systemics, Cybernetics, and Informatics".
These clowns extend the deadlines repeatedly and generally send
me something about once a month, which is why I'm such a fan of
the terrific paper by David Mazieres and Eddie Kohler that they
submitted to the conference:
http://www.scs.cs.nyu.edu/~dm/remove.pdf
\_ That's funny and clever and I appreciate the sentiment, but it
doesn't really answer the question. Does the WMCSCI conference
really exist? If not, is it just an email harvester or are they
stealing credit card numbers also?
\_ I think it's "legit" in that it's not a scam, but it's just
a really really crappy conference, and the only people there
will be the authors. (Lots of Euro conferences are like this -
it's a joint venture between the conference organizers and the
hotel, just to fill the hotel, and they usually invite a big
name [Nobel] to speak and pay him with your conference fees.
But the only attendees at the conference are the authors.)
\_ Ok, thanks. That's idiotic, but I guess I can't call the
FBI over it.
\_ This sounds worse than a scam to me.
\_ Why do authors bother to attend then?
\_ Some academics are more desperate than others to publish
somewhere, anywhere. Also if you have funding to travel
to present, a European location ain't bad. |
| 2005/3/9-10 [Finance/CC] UID:36598 Activity:moderate |
3/9 To the person who ranted about having been owed money and trying to
collect: I've loaned people money in the past, but only to people
I had reason to trust to be able to pay it back. I haven't been
burned yet. The credit card companies seem to want to skip that little
piece of the puzzle. They have predatory lending practices, and they've
finally been able to pour enough money into congress to give them
rule over those they snare. Of course you can reject credit, cut up
your cards, and trim down your consumption to live within your means,
but as a general rule americans don't. There's nothing in this bill
to address foolish lending practices. All the "blame" is put on the
consumer. Indentured servitude was as bad then as it is now.
\_ It's quite apparent that you A) don't own any real estate and
B) You've never been in business. If you've never been shafted
by a deadbeat then you've probably never done any real business
before. Unfortunately the real world is quite different from
your ivory tower fantasies, and people lie, cheat and steal.
When you're running a business over an extended period of time
you'll eventually meet people like these, and you'll eventually
have to deal with them. Let's face it folks, you can't attribute
a 360% increase in BKs to anything other than consumer
incompetence. Let's stop blaming everyone else for the problem
and address the real issue, people have to stop incurring
so much damn debt. As for the credit card companies (and
for that matter banks) , I say we highly regulate them in
return for the legislation they want past. That'll make it
even on both sides of the fence.
\_ Lenient bankruptcy rules ENCOURAGE entrepreneurship. You can
take the risk without having to worry about being completely
destitute and indebted for life if things go south. Btw, do you
have a source for the 360% number you keep spouting?
\_ Yes, it was on the linked page of the first post, so unless
you want to get irritated by the OP of the first post
bemoaning the bill, don't even go there.
Read the archive to get all the numbers. If you don't read the
fucking links then why do you even fucking comment? The
time period was measured from around 1984 to around 2000.
Also, encouring entrepreneurship this way is highly
questionable. Apparently you either have an exceedingly
short term memory or are just dumb. Ever heard of the dot-com
bubble?
\_ tell me, what happened to all those dot coms that declared
bankruptcy? Did they have to pay money to everyone they
fradulently issued stock options to? Did the CEOs have
to give back their multi-million dollar salaries? -tom
\_ CEOs defrauding companies of money should have had to
give it back. CEOs using legal loopholes for large
salaries? Change the law, that's what it's there for.
As for options, same as above, if they were issued
under the letter of the law, nobody forced anyone to
work for a .com. I see where you're coming from, but
.coms with all the associated stupidity and greed are
not a good example. -John
\_ of course, it's totally fine for *businesses* to run up huge
debts and bilk their employees and investors while the board
members earn multi-million-dollar salaries and golden parachutes.
-tom
\_ speaking of americans running up huge damn debts, what's the
per-taxpayer federal debt at now? $30,000? More?
\_ http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock 26,000 is thier quote,
it scares me all the time that the US owes THAT much money.
I don't see how that can ever be paid back. -mrauser
\_ More importantly the person ranting about the increase in
bankrupcies was missing a key point. Bankrupcies have gone
up at the same time that saftey nets have gone away. The vast
majority of cases (I seem to remember 70% but can't look it up
right now) are caused by a family member getting ill. Boom, one
\_ Sorry, you're wrong, it's around 40-50%, lower, but still not
good.
serious illness and you are fucked if you don't have GOOD health
insurance. Fucking over people who are already fucked won't fix
a thing. It's like treating AIDS by covering up those unsightly
skin blemishes with foundation.
\_ No, this is at best a red herring. Should debtors get away
with debt because of XYZ circumstance? Then everyone will
claim XYZ circumstance. The health care system is very broken,
that's a given. However, a broken health care system shouldn't
be an excuse for people to get out of debt easily. Anyway,
people in the past used to get ill, probably at a higher
rate than they do now. Granted, healthcare costs have
skyrocketted in relation (another reason why we should institute
government healthcare like every other civilized nation on
the planet, hell, cuba has better health coverage than the
U.S.), but if consumers weren't already neck deep in debt.
BKs are caused by one simple fact, people are already
overextended. If people were to save instead of continuing
to spend at their current levels the number of BKs will go
down dramatically, regardless of whether a person in the family
gets sick or not. And FYI, yes, I've gone through the terminally
ill family member bit myself, so I know firsthand what's involved.
\_ No I'm saying the reason the number of bankrupcies have
gone up is because of the lack of support services, not
because people are lazy and just don't care and want the
easy way out. People were making that argument yesterday
and it is bullshit. As for credit card companies they
make tons of money by charging obscene intrest rates to
people who use their services. Presumably those interest
rates are so high to make up for defaulters.
\_ I agree with you on the credit card companies. I think
that they should be heavily regulated. Banks are heavily
regulated, credit card companies should likewise be
heavily regulated. I find what credit card companies
do to be despicable, and some of their direct mail
ploys border on fraud.
\_ Yes, because credit card companies are not
regulated at all right now and most credit cards
are not issued by banks anyway.
\_ You theory that people will save instead of spend just
because of the new bankruptcy law is naive and silly.
\_ If it's more difficult to bail yourself out through
bankruptcy, then there is a less of an incentive to
file. If there is less of an incentive to file, less
people would get into the situation in the first place.
If you actually read the bankruptcy overhaul, it throws
out the "clean slate" and forces people to pay back
their debt. Obviously it's a credit card/retailer/
business driven bill. However, the central issue here
isn't necessarily the bill, it's the fact that too many
people are taking on too much debt. The bill itself
forces people to own up to their debts, a good thing
in general. It obviously only addresses one side of the
coin, for obvious reasons. The other side of the issue
is regulating creditors and their exceedingly deceptive
marketing practices.
\_ the bill is stupid. why residence is protected even
if it's a multimillion dollar house. People with
a multimillion dollar house should take out a home
equity loan to pay their bills. it's obviously
designed to protect rich people. As it is,
bankruptcy laws are enough to make one's life
miserable enough. If people aren't bright enough
to know not to spend beyond their means, I doubt
they will be bright enough to distinguish between
current law and the new bill.
\_ I swear, I need to smack you people on the MOTD
on the head. READ THE FUCKING BILL BEFORE
COMMENTING. If you read it you would know
there's a fucking provision to limit the
homestead protection to a max of $125,000.
This would eliminate homestead states such
as TX. This obviously is designed to catch
rich cheats trying to get out of paying massive
debts. If you don't read the goddamn bill,
don't goddamn comment on it.
\_ Okay. Smack in head deserved, but how about
this:
"The Senate, during debate on the bill, also rejected efforts to kill
off the loophole that permits the wealthy to protect assets by opening
special trust accounts in any of several states, including Alaska,
Delaware, Rhode Island, Nevada and Utah. Doctors have been setting up
these so-called asset-protection trusts for years to protect
themselves from malpractice litigation. Now, executives are following
suit, as a result of the latest round of corporate scandals and the
passage of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which makes top executives and
directors accountable for their company's financial results."
"The Senate, during debate on the bill, also rejected efforts to
kill off the loophole that permits the wealthy to protect assets by
opening special trust accounts in any of several states, including
Alaska, Delaware, Rhode Island, Nevada and Utah. Doctors have been
setting up these so-called asset-protection trusts for years to
protect themselves from malpractice litigation. Now, executives are
following suit, as a result of the latest round of corporate
scandals and the passage of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which makes top
executives and directors accountable for their company's financial
results."
\_ ^only the little people pay taxes^only the little people get
fucked when they declare bankruptcy. Those senators are probably
thinking, "hey if I file I better get to hide all my asetts
cuz I'm rich, bitch!" |
| 2005/3/8-9 [Finance/CC] UID:36580 Activity:high |
3/8 Kinda funny how this horrid bankruptcy bill, that was essentially
written by the credit card industry, is going to pass without almost
a single mention in the press.
\_ hey, can we get a similar corporate bankruptcy bill, which says
that board member's assets are seized to pay off employees and
shareholders in the case of chapter 11? -tom
\_ Can you give specifics on this bill? I tend to think that a tougher
bankruptcy bill will have people thinking twice before going into
debt. I think that Americans as a whole are too dependent upon
debt anyway, and declaring bankruptcy has never been easier.
If the bill makes it more difficult and puts a greater stigma
associated with going into bankruptcy it may result in more
careful spending.
\_ It implement a means test for who can file for chapter 7. It
also allows for trusts to hide assets. If you're not super
wealthy (i.e. can afford to set up a trust), you could very well
be forced to spend the rest of your life repaying debt rather
than getting the clean slate that is your constitutional right.
\_ You're an imbecile if you think people don't "think twice"
before going into bankruptcy. "Has never been easier"? How
do you figure? This bill treats "abusers" the same as someone
who goes under because of medical bills. More than 90% of
filings are because of medical costs, job loss, or divorce.
What will you think about ease of filing when 1 or more of
these event happen to you?
It allows loopholes like Asset Protection Trusts (great for
joe q. moneybags. not so good for you or me). This is a
boon to credit card companies and gives you or me no recourse
in the event of emergency to protect ourselves financially.
\_ Uhm, no. You're a moron if you think it's really difficult
to go Chapter 7, it's not. If it was you wouldn't see a
360% INCREASE in 16 years.
Anyway, if people actually SAVED their money
instead of carrying large credit card debts they wouldn't
have to declare bankruptcy when they lose their jobs.
I know plenty of people who go through divorces who don't
have to go through personal bankruptcy. The Medical Bills
is also a red herring. Many institutions will grant waivers
for medical bill debt if the person is indeed needy.
Let's face it, America has become a nation of constant debtors,
the average credit card balance is $7000, people are buying
overpriced homes with 30 year APRs. The whole thing is
out of hand, and personal savings is at a near all-time low.
We didn't have this problem a generation or two ago. It was
because people back then had this concept of not living
beyond your means, of not incurring more debt than assets.
Other countries, most notably Japan, have exceedingly high
savings rates. In most asian cultures it is deemed a great
shame to go into bankruptcy, which is why Asians are some
of the best savers around. People are living longer these
days, they earn more, and enjoy a higher standard of living
than ever before. They should learn to plan financially as
a result, and begin taking responsibility for their assets.
Why you got into debt actually should be somewhat immaterial.
Are lenders supposed to lose their shirts because of
unfortunate circumstances? Well, then, human nature will
dictate that EVERYONE will claim unfortunate circumstances.
Aruing about a bill that makes it more difficult for people
to avoid paying back their debt isn't the real issue. The
real isssue is getting consumers to honor their committments
and avoid debt in the first place. I bet you've never been
owed money. Well I have, and it's not fun to go after people.
It's even less fun when deadbeats get away without paying
you back for resources they've consumed. Dead beats will
give you every excuse under the sun to get out of debt,
like their grandparents died, their cat died, etc.
To hell with the system of excuses, I say, and let's
make people responsible for debts they incur.
\_ OWNERSHIP SOCIETY!
\_ There were big articles in the LA Times, Post, and maybe the NY
Times. Is it really passing?
\_ Check your cspan
\_ Yeah, I did. Closer to passage in the Senate, after
votes to limit debate and to remove a poison pill amendment
on abortion (that killed the bill the last time, when
the Dems had 4 more Senators, and yes, the margin this
time was within 4 x 2 = 8 votes).
I guess people will be voting party line?
\_ Likely. Shame on the dems who voted for cloture
\_ Do you think the Dems are going to counterattack? I think Dubya
will say it allows rich people to declare bankruptcy, cheating the
system, but I think the Dem attack wins ("... a bill written and
funded by credit card companies ...").
IMO, this is fish in a barrel. They're probably wondering whether
it's a set-up, and now I am, too.
\_ I'm trying to figure out just what they're trying to save their
non-existent political capital for. This is one they should have
filibustered. This was bad.
\_ Not to disagree with you, but perhaps they think it's a red
herring which would distract from the social security debate. |
| 2005/3/2-3 [Finance/CC, Industry/Jobs] UID:36487 Activity:nil |
3/2 I signed up for a credit card with a retail chain. There is an
arbitration provision in the agreement and I can reject that provision
alone by writing them a rejection. I am not planning to sue them
unless they tries to screw me. Supposedly accepting arbitration makes
me vulnerable, but would they mark me as a bad customer if I reject it?
\_ If I were them I'd just reject your application.
It's not like they're hiring you as a software engineer and
you're disputing the anti-compete clauses.
\_ Well, it was an online application and I already got the card.
\_ Do they really allow you to reject a clause just by writing
them? The usual practice is, if you don't like the terms,
then don't sign up (or renew) - take it or leave it.
Do they have to accept your rejection? |
| 2005/1/5-6 [Finance/CC] UID:35561 Activity:nil |
1/5 Is this site for real?
http://www.optoutprescreen.com
They say they'll help you opt-out of receiving pre-approved credit card
junk mail, but they were registered in August 2004 through GoDaddy.
(Not that there's anything wrong with GoDaddy, but it seems weird to
give your name and ssn to a site registered through them.)
\_ It looks real to me, but if you're not sure, you can always do
it by phone. The number 1-888-5-OPTOUT is definitely real (see
http://www.experian.com/preapproved_credit/opting_out.html |
| 2005/1/4-5 [Finance/CC] UID:35537 Activity:high |
1/4 Forget porn for a moment: if I want to buy something for my wife
without her knowing about it, and it's too late to establish separate
credit cards/bank accounts, will most online vendors (including PayPal)
accept a Gift Debit Card? Are there other solutions?
\_ I think the question of how to spend money on the credit card
system without using a tracable credit card is a useful one for
everyone regardless of this whole hiding from the wife thing.
It seems to me that the main application for this would be to
use a card with a vendor you don't trust.
\_ Trust to do what? What are you afraid might happen?
\_ Steal my money. Also, I don't want the feds and the
corporations to be able to track me. I'm not the op, btw.
My wife is just about the *only* person in the world I trust
with my financial information.
\_ If they steal your money then you complain to the CC
company. If you don't want to be tracked then use cash.
\_ If you have no answer then don't bother posting.
\_ That is the answer. No one can steal your money
and if you do not want to be tracked then you
must use cash.
\_ Cash will not be around forever. There are
exactly two possibilities for the future of
currency: anonymous digital currency and slavery.
\_ uh, right.
\_ Have a friend buy it for you and pay him/her back with cash? What
in the world are you buying???
\_ Buy it on the credit card and give it to her soon after. Most
people do not check their statements daily.
\_ You could also time the purchase just after they send a credit
card bill. Unless she checks online, that should buy you a month
\_ Set up a checking account at a different bank under your name only
and have the statements mailed to a PO box. Then get a check/debit
card on that account.
\_ Forget porn ... forget porn ... OH FUCK! I'VE FORGOTTEN ALL MY
PORN, THANKS A LOT! |
| 2005/1/3-4 [Finance/CC] UID:35530 Activity:nil |
1/3 Do most sites that require credit cards accept anonymous debit cards?
\_ How can debit/credit cards be anonymous?
\_ MasterCard: http://csua.org/u/ak7
\_ so gift card == anonymous debit card? Is ther any fee
associated with it?
\_ yes, there's an activation fee. it's not terribly cost-
effective (unless you buy in quantity), but you can buy a
card with cash and it's about as anonymous as you can get. |
| 2004/12/22 [Finance/CC] UID:35400 Activity:nil |
12/22 I just used my free $30 credit from opening up an Amazon credit card.
Is there any reason to keep it? -person who hates opening CCs
\_ well, if you buy from amazon fairly frequently, when you end up
with $600 in amazon purchases, you get a $25 amazon gc.
\- if you get an REI VISA, you can get a check instead of REI
credit. --psb |
| 2004/12/12-13 [Finance/CC] UID:35253 Activity:high |
12/12 Speaking of amazon, I'm thinking of signing up for their visa
card. Is there any harm in having several credit cards (this
would be my third; I have a moderate balance on my first one, and
I don't use my second one at all.) BTW I'm signing up to get the
$30 off my purchase. Thanks.
\_ Your credit score declines when you apply for credit (not
so much but just don't do it too often) or when you cancel
old cards. Having about 2-3 cards helps your credit score
but you should make sure there's some activity on those cards.
Having more than 3 might not be such a good thing.
\_ I went crazy and got about 10 credit cards at one point. I
just kept applying for them until they started refusing me.
I never used 3/4 of them. When I went to buy a house 5 years
later, it lowered my credit score. Not too much, probably
50 points or so, but if I had been a marginal case, it would
have been the difference. I closed most of the accounts and
two years later my score is back up to the high 700s.
\_ Does it harm your credit when you cancel/close a card?
\_ For a while. But a few years later your score
is higher, assuming you had "too much" available
credit.
\_ This is where ia m right now. shit i didnt know that
cancelling fucks w/ your score!
\_ Cancelling might shorten your credit history. That might
hurt. Get rid of newer, smaller-credit-line cards.
Second, your "debt ratio" counts: how much debt you have
vs. how much credit you have. If you have no balances at
all, then your "debt ratio" won't be hurt. --PeterM
\_ Debt ratio and total overall debt are the most
important things. Do not roll over a balance
on your credit cards if you want a high score.
\_ This makes no sense. Do you mean 'carry a balance'?
\_ Yes, they mean the same thing, really. You are
rolling the loan over every month. Sorry, I
guess I have been reading The Economist too
much lately. I forgot what normal people
call it.
\_ I have a low 800s credit rating score? Is that low or high?
\_ That's really good, since the max score is 850. Check out
this article from http://bankrate.com: http://csua.org/u/aas
\_ In fact, my mom has worked at banks (credit card
industry, branches, you name it) for 40+ years and says
that she didn't come across many 800+s in that whole
time. 'Excellent credit' (where you will be offered
the best-available rate) is around 760-780. That 11%
number (800+ people) seems high, but that's probably
because those people also apply for credit less often.
\_ You can get home loans at the best rate with a
credit score of 700 or so. Perhaps there are
other kinds of loans that you can get with a higher
score, I dunno.
\_ Home loans are rather easy to get, being secured
by an asset that tends to appreciate. However,
I will say that if you want a 'no doc' loan then
700 won't get it done with the best rate.
\_ Okay, I can believe that. What kind of
score do you need to get a no doc home
loan at the highest rate? I also see that
\_ 760-780, depending on the lender. Another
feature with a high score is that you can
often borrow more than you can 'afford'.
Back when I could only afford a $300K
house they let me borrow up to $500K 'no
questions asked'. This is similar to 'no
doc' in that they are trusting you.
the FICO site says you need a 720 to get
the best interest rates. That was not my
experience when I bought a home, but that
is close enough.
\_ OT: You can check your Credit Report at link:www.annualcreditreport.com
for free, but they charge you $7 to see your actual score. That
sounds awfully dodgy.
\_ The only reason they provide anything for free is because (as
of December 1st) the FTC requires them to. They don't have to
tell you your score for free, and the different credit bureaus
charge different amounts for that.
\_ GODDAMNFUCKINGEQUIFAX
Their site is so damn broken. Failed to serve up the report,
then wouldn't re-serve. Has NO email address contact for
support.
\_ I use the actual FICO site, which costs more but isn't
dodgy. http://www.myfico.com
\_ doesnt checking your credit affect your credit? anyone know
by how much?
\_ checking your own credit does not affect your score according
to the many articles that have been written about this in the
last couple of years. if you have not done this, do it now.
*every* person I know who has checked their score found
errors - probably because the credit checking companies have
almost no incentive to keep things correct. I'm kind of
waiting for this to become a court case since it places
proving "innocence" as the burden of the "accused" and credit
affects just aobut everybody sooner or later.
\_ Well, I checked my credit and found no errors so
there's an exception.
\_ Be a little grateful, then. It took me a couple of years
to completely iron out the three credit cards they said
I still had open - including one that I had closed seven
years previous and that one required a letter from the
issuer. Fair disclusure is that these probably had no
more than 10 points effect on my score. The real fun
was a parking ticket that went to collection that I
never knew existed until it had eaten a hole in my score
for two years. The collection agency never tried to
contact me because they knew I would have to come to
them as soon as I pulled my first report on myself.
\_ I used to have an Amazon card by Nextbank. Then the
bank went bankrupt and never bothered to forward the
last batch of information to the credit agencies,
so I was stuck with a $4000 balance on my credit reports
even though I had paid that off immediately like all my
credit card charges. I was a lazy fuck, so I never
bothered to go correct it. After a few years, the
credit agencies finally figured it out and things are ok
now. |
| 2004/11/22 [Reference/Tax, Finance/CC] UID:35011 Activity:high |
11/22 So in a recent article I've read that relatively poor people
who win state lotteries tend to lose all of their money and then
some within a couple of years, especially those who opt to collect
all of their funds up front. In other words, it's useless to give
poor money if they haven't actually earned it since they'll just
lose it. Something to be said about our tax system.
\_ are you equating lower tax brackets and welfare to the lottery?
\_ No, this says something about systems that give money without
education or expectation.
\_ TROLL HARDER!
\_ Did you see what happened to the homeless guy that Howard Stern gave
money to? He was one of those street drummers. He blew the
money on liquor and whores. He bought a very expensive leather
jacket that was then stolen from him. He bought himself some
nice drums which were also stolen. The idea was that he was
going to rent an apartment. I think Howard gave him $10K, which
was a year of rent. He was supposed to report back in with his
progress and never did. The station finally hunted him down. I
agree that education is the key, but entitlement programs often
don't include such components.
\_ Entitlement program != HUGE CASH PRIZES!
\_ Entitlement program == small cash prizes
\_ No. A prize is a one time bonus, while a low tax bracket
or government service is a regular income source. If your
job gave you a bonus, wouldn't you spend some of it on
impulse buys?
\_ Not if I was HOMELESS!!!
\_ Would you point me a research that says the entitlement
class tends to spend smaller regular payments more
responsibly than they do larger lump sum payments?
Or, to continue the above Howard Stern example, would
the recipient of the largess not just buy the drums
one month and the leather jacket the next?
\_ Would you point me to research that says the poor are
more wasteful of their money than, say upper-middle
class people with too much disposable income. Who
buys the Hummers and Luis Vuitton bags? It's not the
working poor.
\- i'm not sure it's much dumber of a homeless
person to blow $10k boon than for a berkeley phd
making $150k+ to be amassing credit card debt
[i know such a person]
\_ Buying expensive leather jacket and drums is good. This
will help stimulate the economy. |
| 2004/7/25-26 [Finance/CC, Consumer/CellPhone, Politics/Domestic] UID:32474 Activity:very high |
7/25 I've been on the National DoNotCall Registry for over a
year. I get a telemarketing call from T-Mobile, which I
have no relation with. As I understand it, they could be
fined $11,000 for that call. So why would they be calling
me? What are they thinking? Presumably, I'm not the only
one on the donotcall list that they are calling and there
will be numerous complaints.
\_ Because they bought your phone number from someone like a
credit card company who sold them your name and number as
a "bussiness contact" that you missed the little check box
to check to opt out of.
\_ Supposing that's the case, how would I determine which
credit card it is? In any case, I don't think this is the
case, because the woman who called didn't even know who she
was calling for. She only knew the number she was calling.
\_ I have tried to track the down my contact info several times
and gave up because most telemarketers either don't keep
that information or are not willing to give it to you.
I assume, this is because there are no laws that require
them to disclose this information. Maybe it is time to start
writing letters to your representatives about it. BTW, once
I have added myself to the do not call registry, I have stopped
being harassed by phone, but there still lots spam coming by
snail mail.
\_ Pansy liberal, always trying to get big government involved
in your problems.
\_ The woman who called you is some minimum wage slave who
knows nothing, and if she did know anything is probably
under orders to be as unhelpful as possible when it comes
to finding this shit out. Good luck figuring it out. I
bet it you wrote a threatening letter to the right people
you'd get an answer, the trick is figuring out who the
right people are.
\_ Somewhere in here there must be room to say the do-not-call
list has something to do with the US being a totalitarian state.
I can't figure out how but I know it can be done.
\_ Go to the donotcall web page and file a report. I don't think
they'll go after individual violations, but rather they will go
after a company that gets enough complaints against.
\_ Yeah, I already filed a complaint with them before I
even posted anything on here. -op |
| 2004/6/29-30 [Finance/CC] UID:31062 Activity:moderate |
6/29 Say that I, like Justice Ginsburg, want to be able to view an
adult site that requires a credit card, but I don't want to use
a credit card that can be traced back to me. Are there credible
anonymous credit cards out there? Something along the lines of
an escrow service that allows me to purchase $x in credit that I
can then apply to an Internet purchase?
\_ Beware of subscribing to any Internet porn site. Some of them
support psuedo-anonymous ecash style transactions, but since
they have to send you your login information they still require
an email address. They _will_ sell that email address to every
spammer on the planet.
\_ Why give a real email address to porn site operators?
\_ I seem to remember hearing about a service that would
generate credit card numbers for one-time use. They were for
the purposes of purchasing stuff over an insecure channel
so that if the number was stolen your credit card company
would never authorize it again anyway. I think citibank
provided this service. But I guess these were still linked
back to your account and thus not anonymous.
I wonder if it be hard to set-up some service that did something
like this.
\_ Something tells me the Department of Homeland Security wouldn't
be very amused by that.
\_ check out http://www.webcertificate.com
\_ A good start, but requires a credit card to purchase. Still
trackable.
\_ no it doesn't. The whole point of webcertificate is that
someone else can give you one of these temporary credit
cards as a gift. The person who put the funds into the
account is not necessarily the same person making the
purchases on the account.
\_ Why would you want to pay for internet porn?
\_ Wouldn't a Visa gift card work for this purpose? AFAIK, there
is no way to track who is using the card as long as you use
it w/ the pin number. You can also buy them using cash at most
banks so its not traceable. |
| 2004/6/17-18 [Finance/CC, Finance/Investment] UID:30875 Activity:very high |
6/17 What's the catch with balance transfer offers? I got one that sounds
really good, 1.99% for the life of the balance with no transfer fee.
Is there any reason not to do this?
\_ Ok, no, all this stuff below is wrong. I checked and the way most
of these work is they require you to a) take out more money that
card every month (some minimum which will vary), and b) any money
you pay off goes towards the lower interest rate money first, the
higher rate you're paying on money from (a) is going to be at
22% or something like that. So, over time you are quickly moving
your money from 1.9% to 22% and paying on a larger 22% base every
month until eventually you have nothing at the lower rate and
everything at the 22% rate. READ and UNDERSTAND the contract
before you do anything. I've yet to see one where you can win. If
you want to do the math, you can get ahead for a short period of
time and then pay off the whole thing when the scales tip against
you but you'll have to get the math right and be really anal about
dealing with this account.
\_ Look, you are just wrong. I am doing this right now with
my AmEx Blue Card and have been doing it for almost a year.
I am pretty sure that the only "good" offers are made to
current customers with good credit ratings, though. -bb
\_ Ok, so what are the terms of your deal? They don't require
a minimum transaction per time period and they let you pay
off the higher rate first?
\_ I just have to pay off the "minimum balance" every
month. I guess that is not defined, so they could
bump that up if they get sick of me having cheap
money. There is no requirement to use the card,
so I don't.
\_ They're usually coupled with a clause where the low rate goes
away if you ever miss or are late with a payment. And of course
they still get to ream you on fees if you ever are late too.
\_ Yes. However, if you are never late then this is not an
issue. Go ahead and do it. Your current agreement has the
same clauses, anyway.
\_ Also, if you make any new charges, I imagine payments will be
credited toward the transferred balance first; so you get nailed
for the full 10-22% APR on new charges until you pay off the
transfer.
\_ No catch, really. I am doing this on a $10k balance. I actually
got six months interest free to start out. Just make sure you
don't miss any payments or use the card for anything else.
[ non-compliant motd entry deleted ]
|_ why do you hate america?
\_ Why do you hate tabs?
\_ They are depending on the laziness and stupidity of the masses.
If you're smart and anal about it, you won't get screwed. READ and
UNDERSTAND the fine print.
\_ if people were smart, they wouldn't have credit card debt in the
first place.
\_ this is not a failure of intelligence. --psb
\_ right. if you're smart (and have luck in the market)
you can make money using cash advances from credit cards.
the above low rate balance xfers make this possible.
\_ what i meant by "this is not a failure of
intelligence" is not that you should use
the money smartly but that everyone knows
paying cc interest rates is insane ... but
some people are undisciplined. it's like
saying "smoking is dumb". --psb
\_ I knew a guy who did that during the boom. He got
completely wiped out. I guess he wasn't smart enough.
I know another guy from many years earlier when every
knucklehead was investing in gold and silver. He
bought silver at around $28 or so. It has never been
that high since. He didn't do it on his credit cards.
I met another guy last year who came in to do vendor
tech support. He was once at a company that went public
and his options were worth about $5m. Someone at the
company told him he wasn't allowed to sell them unless
the company wanted them. He didn't check with anyone
else outside the company and lost his entire $5m of
options (which is why he was doing onsite tech support).
I've never done any of those things but there sure are a
lot of stupid people out there....
\_Yes, Virginia, there really are stupid people...
\_ Borrow $10k at guaranteed lifetime 1.9%. Invest
in 10 yr (or 5 yr) government bonds paying 4.7%.
Make $280/yr on the arbitrage. Why is this stupid? -bb
\_ That won't work. The bonds don't pay out on a
monthly basis, and your CC company will want
monthly payments.
\_ Sure it works, you think of it as buying a
$10k 10 yr bond with $100/mo payments. But
the interest from the bond makes a couple
of payments a year for you. You have to have
the spare cash lying around to be able to make
the montly payment until the interest from
the bond pays, admittedly. -bondboy
\_ Put $10,000 into bonds of $100. Every 6 months
cash out 1 bond and use that money to pay the
interest for the next 6 months. Bonds only
accrue interest every 6 months which is why
you want a bond-size that covers 6 months of
your interest.
\_ Wow, you are even crazier than me! Did
you actually buy 100 bonds, or is this
just theoretical? -bondboy
\_ Theoretical, but what's wrong with 100
bonds?
\_ Transaction costs and just the
sheer hassle of buying and keeping
track of 100 bonds. If there was
enough money involved, it would
be worth it, but not for $100 bonds,
imnsho. -bondboy
\_ Bonds are all written down at the
same time and placed in a
safe-deposit box. Every 6 months
you go to your bank to get and cash
out a bond. Every month you write
a check to the CC company.
\- you know when you figure out
how much you are making per
hour of work, you have to
take off the tax on the extra
income. --psb
There are no taxes on gov't bonds. Well no, Fed _/
taxes, at least. I see the appeal of not having
to "float" the credit card payment, though. If
I get bored enough at work today, I will try
to work out the difference. I guess if you
buy the bonds directly from the Treasury,
this might work. It still ends up being
a lot of work. Just doing it all online,
buying the bonds via E*Trade, etc, is
pretty simple. -bb
\_ how can i learn to be a finance nerd like you guys?
-moron with all assets in checking account
\_ Is this a serious question? My g/f thinks I
should go back and get a CPA, since I
obviously enjoy this stuff more than my
job as a sysadmin. -bb
\_ yes, it's a serious question.
\_ Read The Economist, Smartmoney and
The WSJ. Smartmoney U (from their
front door) is a great way to get
started on learning things like
what bond curves mean. -bb
Start here:
http://www.smartmoney.com/thebasics/?nav=DropTabs
\_ Bonds are the safe option, but there are better investments to make.
Anyway, it is easy to carry a CC balance and a 1.x% is makes sense to
do so. Buy a car with it instead of an auto loan. Do home repairs
instead of an equity loan. You may wonder why anyone would carry
a CC balance, but the reality is that most people will never be debt-free.
The key is cash flow. I'd gladly put millions of $$$ on my CC if I had
that kind of limit and start a business, buy real estate, or whatever.
The "debt is bad" mantra is for foolish Midwestern housewives who read
Motley Fool and who spend 12 hours clipping coupons to save $5. Take
whatever the bank will give you, because most of us will not save that
kind of money (hundreds of thousands of $$$) easily and it can lead to
opportunity. Obviously using the CC money for vacations and stereo
equipment is stupid, but having a balance in itself is not. I know lots
of people who started businesses on their CC. Think bigger than *bonds*
Jesus! Those Midwestern wives would be excited about $280/year, though.
\_ Yeah, maybe someday I will be in a position to start my own business
or do something like that. But in the meantime, I am having fun and
making money, while learning how to make this stuff work. -bb
\_ At least you realized that assets - liabilities is more important
than being debt-free. I don't care if I have $10 billion in debt
if I have $100 billion in assets. Debt-free is just as idiotic
as debt-laden. |
| 2004/6/9 [Finance/CC, Reference/Law/Court] UID:30692 Activity:very high |
6/9 http://www.captain-obvious.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=466 The popeye pic about halfway down had me in tears. The site is mostly work safe but it might draw someone's eye so be careful out there. \_ The only things more retarded than the Keith guy are the person egging him on and the people who enjoy reading it. |
| 2004/5/30-31 [Finance/CC] UID:30499 Activity:insanely high |
5/30 Does anyone know how to find out for an arbitrary credit card
prefix which bank issued that card? Thanks.
\_ http://www.e-dotcom.com/banks.php gives you 25 queries for free.
\_ it's the first two numbers
\_ Yes, I know it's a certain part of the prefix, but the
question is how to correlate that to a bank...
\_ why don't we start a list here. I'll start.
3715: American Express Platinum
5369: Chase Freedom
6011: Discover
4773: Etrade
4254: Washington Mutual
5262: Citibank
424602: Cal State 9
447182: Kaiser Lakeside Credit Union
\_ Please list the first six digits (see the article below, or the
database above.)
\_ This article might be interesting:
http://www.merriampark.com/anatomycc.htm
\_ You've got 6 cards? How much debt do you carry?
\_ I have well over 6 and carry no debt |
| 2004/4/30-5/1 [Finance/CC, Science] UID:13513 Activity:kinda low |
4/30 Given that the Fed now has huge databases about us (like the info.
all the arilines provided after 9/11 which contains address and credit
card #), would it be long before some rogue employee share it with
google, spammers, mafias, terrorists, or rogue states? And the
spammers probably have better data technology than FBI.
\_ You think the feds didn't already have your address? Uhm, duh, have
you ever paid taxes? Kids today....
\_ not me, pal. I happen to own a *large* black magic marker,
and have removed my name from all the phone books I can get
my hands on!
\_ The IRS does not have my c.c. #. |
| 2004/4/26 [Finance/CC] UID:13392 Activity:nil |
4/26 http://www.csua.org/u/72a \_ Unclear on what a Devian is. I know what a Tart is, though. |
| 2004/4/2-3 [Finance/CC] UID:12988 Activity:nil |
4/2 What is your favorite rewards credit card?
\_ the debt-free fuck-the-evil-credit-card-company card.
\_ Rewards? Fuck that. The best cards don't charge *any* fees for
normal usage so you can pay off the whole thing every month and use
the card forever without paying the bastards a penny.
\_ there are rewards cards which don't charge fees. I like MBNA
World Points, which has a 1% cash-back option.
\_ there are quite a few rewards cards out there that don't
have annual fees. it's not like giving you 1% back is a big
deal when they make ~3% + ~30 cents per transaction, plus
exorbitant interest charges.
\_ If they're going to charge the merchant a fee per
transaction anyway (regardless of what card you have)
then this shouldn't matter. Interest charges only
apply if you don't pay your full balance.
\_ my local kinko's copy now lets you put small numbers of
copies on your credit card (as few as one copy, 10 cents).
Anyone know how they're able to dodge the above fees?
\_ http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/travel/8278292.htm
\_ I like Shell Citibank card. %5 discount on Shell gasoline purchase.
\_ Ha! I get 5% discount on _any_ gasoline purchase with
my Chase Freedom card + upto %1 back on the non-gasoline
purchases.
\_ yay, let's all buy more gas and increase our dependence on
the middle east.
\_ you have to buy the gas you have to buy. i doubt he's
driving 5% more because it's 5% cheaper.
\_ Amazon Card (Bank One) 1% "cash" back in the form of Amazon
gift certificates. 3% back for purchases from Amazon. Used to
be 2% and 6% respectively, but Next Bank went bankrupt and
Amazon then selected Bank One. They automatically mail me a
$25 Amazon gift certificate everytime I spent $2500, pretty
hassle free.
\_ My Platinum card from Patelco that returns 1% cash on purchases.
Cash it the best "reward."
\_ My BofA Visa has 1% cash back on all purchases. The cash is
deposited into my checking acct. There isn't any annual fee
or membership fee or anything, though I think you have to have
a BofA checking account with a min balance of $1K.
\_ does this card have a specific name?
\_ mine is called the banking benefits visa.
\_ credit card or debit card?
\_ credit card (I have a debit card, but that one doesn't
get 1% cash back. I only use it at atms).
\_ if you're talking about the banking benefits card, that card
is kind of a ripoff. they give you one point per hundred
dollars, but they always round down. also, if you receive a
credit to your card, they round up when they deduct points
from your card. this card is only good if you're one of those
people who apparently gets double points for some reason.
\_ I agree that it would be better if they gave you 1%
for ever $ instead of for ever $100, but I haven't
found any visa/mc that offers this w/o a membership
fee or annual fee. The nice thing about the BofA
card is that getting your cash back is easy (compared
with some of the other cards I used to have) and
all of your transaction information shows up in
BofA's online banking site.
I have a couple of other cards other than this one.
I use a Chase Freedom card for all my gasoline and
I used to use a Amex Blue card for all my online
txn (until they screwed up their website making it
impossible to find the one use cc number form). Blue
was a decent card (1% cash back, no membership fee,
no annual fee, &c.) but the problem is that lots of
places (esp. overseas) don't take Amex so you have
to have a backup Visa/MC. |
| 2004/2/26-27 [Finance/CC, Recreation/Shopping] UID:12426 Activity:nil |
2/26 I couldn't find this in the motd archive. Google search for credit card
processing / ecommerce hosting companies is worthless. What's a good
place to go with? Low volume, Ease of use preferred over price... I
know that I can go with Verisign, but I'm guessing that they suck
(I know that they suck as a registrar). My domains are with godaddy,
which does ecommerce, but says you need a shopping cart... is there
a good text FAQ that explains the whole process? I'm only selling one
(maybe two) items, so I don't need a shopping cart. I don't want to
deal with Paypal.
\_ Verisign Internet Merchant Account + PayFlow Link. |
| 2004/1/6-8 [Finance/CC] UID:11684 Activity:high |
1/6 I was paying my credit card bill the other day and the guy behind the
counter commented on the fact that I've never carried a balance.
I've always paid my bills, in full, on time. Would there be a credit
rating advantage to carrying a small ($20) occasionally, or would I
just be wasting small change on interest?
\_ You don't need an 800 rating to get all the credit in the world.
I've got a 730 or so and I'm good for $100k credit line just for
asking.
\_ where do I check my rating?
\_ http://www.equifax.com for example. There's a fee.
\_ In CA you're entitled to a free credit check each year. Or
did congress fuck that up for us?
\_ Don't credit checks adversely affect your credit rating?
\_ Not the ones you order for yourself.
\_ Has anyone on the motd in CA ever done this? Hadn't
heard of this option... (have always had to pay, is it a
recent change?)
\_ It's not free. You do have to pay. If you have been
refused a credit card, THEN you can et a freebie. FICO
always costs.
\_ you mean even if you get refused a credit card, and
you request the freebie, you still can't get your
credit rating(FICO?) unless you pay?
\_ exactly. you get your report w/o the score
\_ what is FICO exactly?
\_ Fair Isaac Credit Org. It
is basically your credit
rating. Affects your
ability to get credit
related financial
transactions (such as CC,
mortgage rate, even
insurance rate!). |
| 2003/12/25-27 [Finance/CC] UID:11586 Activity:nil |
12/24 If anyone is looking for a good deal on a credit card, check here:
http://www.lnksrv.com/m.asp?i=1070175&u=32052459
It's from a motley fool newsletter. Apply by 12/31, get $50 credit
on your statement. No annual fee, 1% straight cash rebate, paid
yearly, visa platinum benefits. Fairly low APR, but you're a little
dumb if you keep a balance on a credit card anyway.
\_ Who offers that credit card? Who gets paid for clicks on that link?
\_ MBNA and motley fool. presumably motley fool gets paid,
since it's from their newsletter. certainly not me, anyway. -op
\_ The deal notwithstanding, I'd never acknowledge interest in
an MBNA product. They're vultures. I've been trying to
untangle my credit score from the mess they made for a couple
years now. Just be careful and know that, once they have you,
they won't ever let you go. This is, BTW, on a card I never
carried a balance on. -- ulysses
\_ could you please elaborate?
\_ Briefly, my alumni assoc offered a card through MBNA. I
took it. I canceled after two years of near non-use. They
never cancelled the card. I found out and determined the
undead card was affecting my credit score (check it, this
is true) and found out they hadn't canceled it despite
my request on their records. I asked for cancellation
again, and a letter. I got the letter but they never told
Equifax and the rest. Three months ago I figured out the
card is still there on my credit record as account open.
Meanwhile, MBNA has been pinging my credit record with
credit checks about every three months. This is harmless,
I am told. The last is my request to Equifax that they
correct their records (Everyone should go to http://equifax.com
and order a free report by mail, btw. There were
numerous errors and they have no incentive to correct.)
As far as I know, it's now all fixed.
This is aside from the dangerous credit card checks they
mail to all their customers, even after repeatedly
telling them not to. On that issue, I eventually got an
operator willing to tell me the truth - that they have no
policy except to always send those checks out.
\_ WHAT IS THE LINK FOR THE FREE REPORT? I just see
reports for sale.
\_ just because you've had a bad experience doesn't
mean everyone else will. the post below me probably
contains more truth than the poster thinks. i've
heard bank one horror stories, but i've had two cards
with them for a few years, and everything's gone quite
fine. i don't doubt both of them being platinum cards
has at least a small bit to do with it.
\_ I'll accept his bad experience over yours because
if they treat one person that way they can treat
me that way too. For example just because my
friend hasn't yet been screwed by PayPal doesn't
mean it's safe to use PayPal. http://www.paypalsucks.com
\_ i requested mbna to stop sending me those and they
did indeed stop... maybe they only play nice with
"platinum plus" customers.
\_ Mine was a standard card at the time so perhaps.
-- ulysses
\_ I thought you could get 1 free report per year. Does
equifax do this?
\_ Are you in CA? I've only see them charge, never
free...
\_ thank you for posting the one non-useless/idiotic post
on this thread.
\_ Not dumb to keep a balance if you get 0% or 2.9% interest rate
on balance transfers. I will borrow all the money I can at
those rates.
\_ you'll pay finance charges too, and whatever other fees they
can manage for you. also, maxing out your credit line does
not look good on your credit report.
\_ You get the 2.9% or they get the 2.9%? At 0%, sure that's fine,
but read the fine print to make sure there's no end of the year
gotcha or other penalty. They have to zing you somehow to make
their money.
\_ They're betting you'll forget a month's payment somewhere
along the line. AT this point they cancel the 0%, and
charge you $35 late fee. And most of those balance transfer
deals come with a 3% balance-transfer fee. Occasionally they
do wave the transfer fee, so watch carefully.
\_ why bother? why not just live within your means?
\_ Leverage. If you try to pay cash for everything
you will ever buy (house, car, tuition) you are
burning capital. Use your capital where you need it
most. Many companies, for example, buy items on
credit even when they have lots of $$$ in the bank.
Why pay today when you can pay later?
\_ What he said. Plus, if you can borrow money at
2.9% and use it to buy bonds paying 4.5%, you
get free money. Will you lend me $1M at 2.9%
interest rate? Pretty please?
\_ what kind of bonds? some bonds are pretty
risky these days.
\_ he's talking about the return on his investment
in the bondage video industry.
\_ 10 year US Government treasury bonds.
\_ According to Mr. Inflation on the other
thread up top, we're all doomed if we
invest in America.
\_ i think if you invest in the bondage
video industry as i suggest, you will
not be doomed. besides, the Yen
is doing just fine.
\_ The Indian and Chinese porn industries
are putting them out of business with
all that off shore porning.
\_ there are still some reasonable
investments in the US (carefully
picked stocks for instance), but
don't "invest in America", invest
for your own gain. That's not only
in accordance to the market principle,
it's also in the best interest of
America (use foreigners to earn money
for us).
\_ Uhm duh? There isn't an "invest in
America" option. No one is going to
blindly "invest in America". They're
going to put their money on something
they believe will increase their net
worth or short term income.
\_ which may fall like a rock once interest
rates rise?
\_ How is this better than Discover? |
| 2003/9/26-27 [Finance/CC] UID:10336 Activity:nil |
9/25 What's the least expensive way to process small amounts of credit
card payments?
\_ yermom knows - ask her
\_ how/where/what format? small business? online transactions?
need more detail
\_ small business. accepting credit card numbers for payment.
Not physically, and I don't need to process them on -my-
website, but would like the credit card service to have a
web-based interface. sorry, I should have included this all
from the beginning. I love PayPal, but I don't want to require
my customers to join PalPal. |
| 2003/9/23 [Finance/CC, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10289 Activity:nil |
9/22 I've had 2 Vietnamese roomates so far and I think they're AWFUL.
They are dirty, lie about bills, and one of them is a thief (stole
my credit card number and used them to order stuff sent to their
homes in San Diego). I think of all the Asians out there, the
Vietnamese people are amongst them one of the nastiest out there.
I'm not saying ALL VCs are bad, just that in my personal experience
many of them are. Also, I'm not saying that they're genetically
inferior-- their behaviour is mostly defined by their background,
and their refugee background is most likely what makes them what
they are. Roomates, beware, and good luck to you all.
\_ watch out for philipinos too |
| 2003/8/23-24 [Finance/CC] UID:29450 Activity:moderate |
8/23 I want to add credit card processing to my site. Any recommendations?
Typing "credit card processing" in google returns a billion sites,
but I'm looking for a few reputable places that are easy to set up
and affordable. Thanks.
\_ paypal!
\_ this is not credit card processing... its payments to anyone
with an email and requires the buyer to go through a lengthy
account set-up process. I recently set something like this
up using LinkPoint (parent company called "Card Services
Internationl," I think). This is the company that Earthlink
uses for its ecommerce stores. Its relatively cheap for a
merchant account with them, and they have many simple API's
to basic credit card transactions. I used their perl api.
easy, good documentation. - rory
\) thanks.
\_ ps - it probably would have been more helpful to
google for "merchant account" since this is really
what the companies are offering (with some
programmatic api, hopefully). if you google this,
http://cardservice.com is the 8th result. good luck
\_ From what I found, it seems like the basic cost of this is $20/mo.
Does that sound right? If that's the case, I think I'm just better
off getting webspace through a third party. I'll keep looking. tnx. |
| 2003/8/18-19 [Finance/CC] UID:29382 Activity:insanely high |
8/18 Do the current berkeley undergrad student ids have that sticker that
says Fall <year>? Or have the system been upgraded to use magnetic
strip like credit cards? I'm asking because I've been using my
old ID to get student discounts. This works in places far away from
berkeley (and I look young I must add :-). I'm wondering if I try
try my luck at stores near berkeley. - alumni '93
\_ general rule: no sticker is better than expired sticker.
\_ Didn't they change the look of the ID cards at the end of '99?
So Berkeley area places might notice a difference...
\_ It'll probably still work; since nobody gets a student ID every
year there are probably still grad students who are proud of
the retro look.
\_ Very true. I've been using my ID card from '95 without a single
incident. Not even a look or a question. But if they ask,
just say you're a grad student or just taking your sweet time.
\_ Grad cards look different, both old and new. You're right
that retailers probably won't know the diff, though.
\_ if you were really rich, would you still try to get student
discounts?
\_ personally, i'm not rich and i don't use my student id any
more (graduated '00). i have a good paying job and it seemed
kinda petty to keep on busting it out for the $2 at movies i
would save. besides, it's just the whole principal of it for
me.
\_ Isn't the difference like $4 nowadays? - id-less observer
\_ principle
\_ I am rich and have a high paying job, but I am still taking
classes part time and has a student ID card for that. Can
I use my studnet ID card for movie discount, in principle?
\_ um, yeah, i use my stud net ID card for discounts on
lots of other things too, like lapdances and porn videos.
\_ what kind of classes? not english classes, i assume.
\_ never! i hate english, it's an ugly language
\_ Why not? You think the rich got and stay rich by throwing their
money away and paying more for the same thing when all they have
to do is flash a card they're required to carry anyway? "The
rich" are human beings the same as anyone.
\_ What the fuck are you saying? That rich people got rich
by scamming with their expired University id's? Try staying
on topic here rather than making idiotic and irrelevant
extrapolations to prove your 'point'.
\_ on topic? on topic? lol. dude, the op just wanted to know
\_ Uhm, none of it. That's why I'm posting to the head,
fool.
if they can get away with using their old id card to
get discounts. the answer would appear to be
"probably." that's a one word anwser. what component
of the flame war below is "on topic" excactly?
\_ Uhm, none of it. That's why I'm flaming the post that
started it, fool.
\_ if you're going to be persinckety, it was the post
one level up from that, "if you were really rich..."
that started the whole thing. turd burglar.
\_ Well, I chose to flame you, doofus boy. Now
take it like a man and admit you're wrong.
\_ you've just proved yourself to be an
illiterate so that makes your 'victim' wrong?
what planet are you living on where being a
proven idiot makes you the 'winner'? sober
lately?
\_ Yep, the rich got and stay rich through theft and fraud.
\_ Cry me a river, poorboy. I worked my ass off for years
for my money (like the majority of wealthy people) while
you bitched and moaned and did nothing for yourself. I'll
bet you got laid and partied more than I did. You have
that going for you. It's worth something, right?
\_ It does take effort to restrain yourself to your trust
fund money while waiting for Grandpa to kick the bucket.
I admire your inner strength.
\_ awww, leave the poor bastard alone. he probably
wasted his youth working 90 hour weeks as a sysadmin
keeping the machines running for someone else's
startup and now he just hates everyone.
\_ no, I started and later sold my own business while
you were drinking and getting stoned. no trust
funds here, kids. hard *work*. something you're
unfamiliar with. try http://dictionary.com.
\_ this sucks. why should I pay to look up a word
definition when I can just use the merriam-
webster online dictionary for free?
\_ what the hell are you talking about?
http://dictionary.com is free. i just tried it.
\_ See, we're back to not throwing money
away. The circular argument is complete.
GOTO: Why not?
\_ To all those arguing about the ethical ramifications
of continuing to use your old student id, look at
this way: did you *ever* get a single fucking discount
from the foul-smelling excuses for movie theatres
while actually a student? Or did you pay full price,
and then sit through 15 minutes of 10-10-321
commercials in an uncomfortable, sticky seat?
\_ I don't think CRAZY HORSE gives student
discounts. - danh
\_ it doesn't work for me anymore at AMC Marcardo. They seem to
recognize the old ID.
\_ LAME LAME LAME. Just xerox someone else's ID, like one
from UC Davis or UCLA, then modify it on photoshop, then
print it nicely on Kinko's color laser. No one ever knows
what UCI/UCR/UCSD/UCX cards look like anyways.
\_ or do what i do, go to school forever (you can never
have too many advanced degrees).
\_ i tried it successfully at Century Theatres recently.
\_ Two suggestions for you tightwads:
1) If you are still a student (ugrad or grad), get a new ID for $10
a few months before you graduate.
2) If anyone ever calls you on your IDs date, just say that you were
an undergrad and now are a grad student. you dont get a new id if
you are a grad student (do you? even if you do, who knows this?)
-- 00 grad, cheap, forgot to do #1. |
| 2003/7/7 [Finance/CC] UID:28946 Activity:very high |
7/7 re: lonely geek thread a couple of weeks back. If people think that
money doesn't matter in a relationship, you're in fantasy land. A
friend recently broke up with a guy because she discovered that he had
several thousands in credit card debt. He's a native and she's not.
It's not like he's unemployed. He makes a decent living, but just
can't save any money. That's completely unacceptable to her (to me as
well). I think most people agree that "marrying for money" is bad.
But I'd rank compatible financial goals as #2 on marriage
criteria. -happily married guy
\_ You are out of your forking mind. "Several thousands in credit
card debt" is a refrigerator or television these days. Forget
about a car, huh? Lots of debt isn't good, but "several
thousands"? Your friend is in for some trouble. I'm glad for
the guy, though.
\_ My TV cost 300 dollars. My car wasn't financed at 18.6%
intrest. I haven't bought a fridge so I can't comment there.
\_ If you're paying 18.6% interest on anything then you've
got issues. My CC is 3.9% right now. Sorry you have such
a shitty TV.
\_ I bet your 3.9 CC has a gotcha you don't think about.
Oh and I spent that money I saved on a tv on things
that matter. I'm sorry you think a tv is that important.
\_ how did you get 3.9%? Is it a temporary rate?
\_ No. 3.9% fixed. I was offered it so I took it.
\_ I bought a refrigerator recently: $750.
\_ Sorry you have such a shitty refrigerator.
\_ Ever thought that she left him because of his lack of financial
savviness (i.e., cannot save any money) rather than the simple
fact that he is currently in debt? Being temporarily in debt
is OK but he should have a solid plan to get out of it. Most
girls would have been OK with that.
\_ I don't think anyone said that money doesn't matter. I know
that I said that no one, or almost no one, marries for money
only. I said, and still believe, that money is only part
of the package. If you don't think that tall, handsome,
smart, well-spoken, poor men can't find love, I'd like
to know what planet you are from.
\_ You say that. Jay-Z sez "Money Cash Hos". He has more of all
three than you so he wins as far as I'm concerned.
\_ isn't mortgage a loan? And if I have a big house, I have a big
debt hence no gals would like me? Your logic fails.
\_ There's good debt and bad debt. CC = bad, house = OK. Compare
how much a house appreciates in value over time compared to
your car, refrigerator, tv, etc.
\_ Yeah. Look at margin accounts. Good debt. Appreciates
over time... uh oh. |
| 2003/5/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Finance/CC] UID:28434 Activity:moderate |
5/13 I am just being a lazy ass, so, I'll just ask my question here. In
California, does a divorcing couple split up all of the debts owed by
either or both of them just as they do with their wealths? Such as
student loans, home equity line, credit cards, etc.
\_ Yes. Wait, no. Maybe.
\_ I eagerly await BDG's answer.
\_ Stuff earned during marriage is split. Stuff not earned during
marriage which was kept apart such as student loans is not.
\_ After 10 years, I think everything is split.
\_ So she'll make sure to rack up a lot of debt before she
dumps you, since 50% of it won't be her problem and the
alimony will cover the other half. Her bf will keep her
living large and you'll share a studio with your divorced
college buddy.
\_ california hasn't had alimony for eons
\_ "Spousal support"
http://www.divorcenet.com/ca/alimony.htm |
| 2003/5/1-2 [Politics/Domestic, Finance/CC] UID:28289 Activity:kinda low |
5/1 Do all credit cards get spammed with solicitations for budget saver
programs, life insurance, credit protection fees, etc, or did I just
happen to get a card that does?
\_ Congratulations. Now that you have their card, you now have
an existing relationship with all of their affiliates, which
means that the junk mail and telemarketing phone calls you're
getting are yours legitimately. Good luck opting out.
\_ *sigh* yup. I usually toss all the junk mail, but somehow I
still got signed up for some budget saver crap, and I was
charged on my account. argh. And a prior incident, it took
several phone calls to get them to seize their life insurance
several phone calls to get them to cease their life insurance
charges.
\_ yes I do get spammed. They did send out Privacy Letters so you
can opt out. Also, some of the spam mail is useful -- great
credit card rates/deals. |
| 2003/4/24-25 [Finance/CC, Health] UID:28216 Activity:high |
4/24 I don't see what is so unethical or special about Netflix's queueing
system. VISA/mastercard phone support queue is based on how good
a customer you are (platinum vs. regular). My company's support
depends on whether the customer is a gold member or not. This
stuff has been going on for eons.
\_ there's a difference between giving preferential treatement to
good customers, and degrading treatment to good customers. -tom
\_ no. we give preferential treatment to potentially good
customers while still giving good treatment to existing
good customers. -netflix employee
\_ aka "bait and switch"
\_ so netflix has left you feeling degraded and oppressed?
get over it. they'll be gone in a year or two or sold to
MS or something and it won't matter.
\_ I'm not a customer, but I still think it stinks. -tom
\_ Normally I find myself in disagreement with tom,
but I second his opinion on this one.
\_ It's like complaining about how your Edsel or your
Pinto doesn't get the mileage they said it would.
\_ http://Walmart.com offers DVD rentals ala Netflix. You have a choice now. |
| 2003/4/10 [Finance/CC, Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:28071 Activity:moderate |
4/11 Barefoot and pregnant: the results of clean living in UT:
http://csua.org/u/cd6
\_ Sigh. Not the result of clean living. Interestingly, the LDS church
actually teaches the importance of living within your means,
avoiding debt unless absolutely necessary, and to consider bankruptcy
only as a last option. -emarkp |
| 2003/2/19 [Finance/CC] UID:27459 Activity:nil |
2/19 http://www.savekaryn.com \_ http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/17/1045330537167.html |
| 2003/1/16 [Finance/Banking, Finance/CC] UID:27118 Activity:kinda low |
1/15 What rates are you getting on credit cards? Student loans?
\_ student loan 0% interest. -gradstudent
\_ Rates? I only use no fee cards and pay off every month. No idea
what my rates are. Total consumer debt? Zippo.
\_ at some point, mom is going to kick you out of the house.
\_ I haven't taken any money from my parents in 15 years, but
I'm glad to see you're so concerned about my housing
situation. Consumer debt is completely optional, kiddo.
You don't *need* a new DVD player. There's absolutely no
reason to carry consumer debt from one month to the next. |
| 2002/12/18 [Finance/CC] UID:26845 Activity:high |
12/17 Question for the "conservative" sodans: Did you max out all of
your credit cards like good corporate sheep or did the terrorists
already win?
\_ I pay off my balances every month before and after 9/11.
\_ Hi troll! Like the above, I also *never* kept a balance. |
| 2002/12/8-10 [Finance/CC] UID:26750 Activity:moderate |
12/8 No money but at least you can say you're working while looking for a
paying job: http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/pen/sad/7231446.html
\_ Are the rest of the people working for nothing too? You often
get what you pay for, esp when you offer only a possibility of
a real job.
\_ Usually yes because there isn't any money. Everything is
running off the founders' credit cards.
running off the founders' credit cards. [do not edit other
people's posts. add your own comment if you have something
to add]
\_ Aren't credit cards a really bad way to finance a company?
or is the interest reflective of what the risk is?
\_ One would think so but I've seen it a few times. Then
again, how many people were day trading 3 years ago? |
| 2002/9/18-19 [Transportation/Car, Finance/CC] UID:25924 Activity:moderate |
9/18 Where is a good reverse phone lookup site? http://www.411.com can't find most of the numbers I'm looking for. Thanks. \_ anywho \_ http://whitepages.com \_ shit there's so much information in there. How do I remove my information, or leave just the city and not the address? also, how to remove people information in "basic search"? \_ pacbell has one online too |
| 2002/9/9-10 [Finance/CC] UID:25823 Activity:very high |
9/9 I got a 0% APR offer from a credit card that I haven't used in years.
It's 0% for all purchases and cash advances till 2/03. If I write
a $36000 check (my credit limit is $37000) to pay the principle of
my mortgage now, and then pay $36000 to my credit card on 2/03, would
it look bad on my credit history? I'm trying to save a few hundred
dollars on mortgage interest. Thanks.
\_ Yes. Don't fuck around if you care about your credit history.
You should also read the very fine print. There are probably other
fees in there. I shred these things. I get them all the time.
\_ Where do you plan to get the $36000 on 2/03? They are hoping
that you won't come up with it and will have to pay their 20%
interest rate from 2/03 until you come up with the money.
\_ Some of it will come from saving up from my paychecks during
these few months. The rest will be from my mutual fund and money
market accounts.
\_ Your overall amount of credit will go up, which will lower your
credit rating marginally, but if you already own a home, it doesn't
matter as much. Make sure there are not cash advance fees.
\_ Your credit rating will drop. My friend moved all her car loan
(14+% APR and all) to 0% credit card, you'd think that it's a
good move and all. Much to her surprise, her credit rating dropped
like a rock (50 points I think). If you dont care about your
credit history until you pay the loan off, then it does not matter.
\- From most fo the credit card 0APR offers I have seen, the fine
print puts on enough restrictions to make this not really viable.
The cash advance fees will kill you. A fee is paid immediately
rather than over time. So if the length of the loan is really
6mos, then a 5% fee = 10% annual rate at 0APR interest rate.
\_ Fee usually has a cap of something like $50. --dim
\_ Like I said above, read the fine print. Understand it. |
| 2002/8/31 [Finance/CC] UID:25744 Activity:nil |
8/30 Is there a reason half the stores / restaurants still put your
entire credit card number on the receipt instead of the last four
digits?
\_ It amuses me when people spout off about how it's crazy to
use your credit card on the net because of bad security.
to exploit the "bad security" on the web, you have to have a
level of knowledge of computers that at least can get you a pretty
decent job(unless you're a 12 year old sociopath).
to steal a cc# from a trash can at a gas station, you need
no special skills, and take no real risk. never mind also
that many of the waiters that tak your cc at a restraunt
are working under the table and could jack you number with
no one being the wiser also. the whole system only works because
most people are honest, and anyone who thinks otherwise is lying
to themselves.
\_ having your cc and exp date and that stuff isn't really helpful
for most purposes. unless you have the resources to actually
produce counterfeit credit cards, online stores usually require
and validate your address, which does not show up on receipts.
\_ lot's of places dont verify anything that can't be easily
found. i know someone who used to be a sociopathic
12 year old, who got busted for this.
\_ Because you sent this comment to the motd instead of to them?
\- i think the WEEB concern is the ability to get say 10,000
credit cards in a day. and then to have them sold en masse.
part of this works because of honesty and part of it works
because of marginal and average effort per #cc is high. ok tnx. |
| 2002/7/13 [Finance/CC] UID:25346 Activity:low |
7/12 Woohoo! I am getting my $250 back! Can buy new toy now!
-----
As you may have learned, NextCard has closed credit card accounts for
many of its customers, including cardholders who may have accrued
http://Amazon.com Rewards credits. Rest assured that http://Amazon.com has every
intention of honoring Rewards points you have accrued with your
http://Amazon.com NextCard Visa card. We will announce a redemption program
for outstanding Rewards points in the coming weeks.
----- |
| 2002/7/9-11 [Finance/CC] UID:25316 Activity:very high |
7/10 My credit card company which gave Amazon rewards just went bankrupt.
What's a good Visa/MC rewards card out there? And no, I don't intend
on buying a GM car.
\_ (MBNA linuxfund). no it's not just for linux it's for all open src
but opensrcfund doesn't sound as sexy. It's by MBNA and has one
time credit card number generation.
http://csua.org/u/6d
shitty Discover or American Exp. oh yeah no fee.
\_ And these certificates are good why? They're basically virtual
credit card numbers. How many sites let you use multiple credit
card numbers on a single transaction?
\_ I think I'm going with this card to replace my Amazon card:
http://csua.org/u/6a
It gives 1% (not up to) back on "certificates" supposedly good
anywhere Mastercard is accepted. Also it's mastercard and not
shitty Discover or American Exp. oh yeah no fee. actually it sux nm.
Anyone heard of "stockback" card? 1% back as cash in an account...
\_ http://www.edealinfo.com/creditcard.shtml
\_ http://csua.org/u/65
\_ AmEx black. ~$2k/year, but rewards = assassinate a third world
\_ Darn! What happens to the $200 worth of rewards I have
accumulated?
\_ Fuck, me too.
You didn't get this e-mail?
Dear NextCard Cardholder:
This email contains IMPORTANT information about the status of your
NextCard credit card account with NextBank , N.A. ("NextBank").
PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE EMAIL CAREFULLY.
NEXTBANK CLOSED
You are receiving this letter because you have a credit card issued
by NextBank with a NextCard logo on the front. NextBank was closed
by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency on February 7,
2002. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation ("FDIC") was
appointed Receiver and is responsible for administering the affairs
of the failed NextBank.
despot of your choice every few million you spend. -John
\_ Yahoo visa. No annual fee. Point good for books and merchandise.
\_ i use citibank mc AA which gives american airlines miles. they
have an annual fee but i usually charge around $3,000/mo so
$75 off any ticket with just 7500 dollar spent. $39 annual
fee.
so i get a free RT domestic ticket every year. -uctt
\_ you should try orbitz's mastercard. Cheaper annual fees
and you can claim miles on all major airlines. You get
$75 off any ticket with just 7500 dollar spent. $39 annual
fee.
\_ There is a Citi Bronze AA World Mastercard with no annual fee
available by solicitation only. Miles are capped at 25K a year.
\_ There's a citibank dividend card that gives 1% cash back, but you
don't get a check until you reach $100. There's also a bank of
america "banking benefits" card--you can use 10 points to get a
certain increase in interest rate of cd's or whatever, or $10
credit to your account.
\_ There is a Citi Bronze AA World Mastercard with no annual fee
available by solicitation only. Miles are capped at 25K a year.
\_ There's a citibank dividend card that gives 1% cash back, but you
don't get a check until you reach $100. There's also a bank of
america "banking benefits" card--you can use 10 points to get a
certain increase in interest rate of cd's or whatever, or $10
credit to your account.
\_ TD Waterhouse investor's prime card. You get 5% off from
selected online vendors (e.g. Amazon), plus a free trade in
your brokerage account for every $2000 spent.
\_ Nextcard? If so, I am also using it, but haven't heard
anything about it becoming invalid.
\_ Nextcard just went belly-up, which is probably why the person
was asking. I'm in the same boat, leaning towards the http://buy.com
card. I wish http://amazon.com had a credit card like http://buy.com. -eric
\_ what about the yahoo card? -tom
\_ Shell MasterCard/Visa is good. Also American Express Cash
rebate is good if you want cash back. BofA used to have a
cash back Visa card but I heard they don't issue new cards
anymore. Call them and find out. I still own a BofA cash
back Visa card today.
\_ REI Visa gives you 1% cash back (but many months later) if you
are a member. http://www.reivisa.com
\_ Isn't that only spendable at REI? (I have one.)
\_ You can ask for a cash dividend if you want. It doesn't
come until July, but it's cash.
\_ Quicken Card (actually by Citibank / Traveler) ain't bad.
Spend $8000 and get $100 towards purchase of airline ticket
through their travel agency. They pretty much give you
the same ticket price as what you can find on the net.
Card service was much better than NextCard.
\_ I had a bunch of amazon credit card points I hadn't redeemed
yet and yesterday when I tried to redeem them it said they
were out of stock, but it seems to be working now so get your
points out while you can!
\_ thanks brothah
\_ I think I am one step too late. :( |
| 2002/5/13-14 [Finance/CC, Politics/Domestic] UID:24808 Activity:moderate |
5/13 What's a TN1 visa for? Thanks.
\_ Similar to H-1B for temporary foreign workers, TN-1 is created for
workers from the NAFTA countries (Canada, for example). It has a bit
less restrictions from the usual H-1B visa.
\_ Another way for foreigners to steal our jobs.
\_ it's not yours untill you own it. If you don't have what it takes
to own it I guess you can only whine about it. hahahah |
| 2002/4/25 [Finance/CC] UID:24589 Activity:nil |
4/24 Old people in desperate need of renewal through Carrousel:
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20020425/4058394s.htm |
| 2001/7/26 [Finance/CC] UID:21960 Activity:nil |
7/26 The due date for my mortgage is on the 1st of every month, yet the bank
says I can have till the 16th of every month to make a payment to
avoid any late charge or bad credit. Does that make sense? I thought
the due dates on credit card bills and phone bills for example are the
last day to avoid late charge or bad credit.
\_ It's a grace period, you putz. Don't try to use it. By the way,
credit cards usually give you 30 days before reporting and the
phone company won't report you at all as long as you pay
eventually. --dim |
| 2001/7/23 [Finance/CC] UID:21917 Activity:nil |
7/23 I heard that there is somewhere that I can write to in order to reduce
my junk snail mail like pre-approved credit cards and coupons and
stuff. Does anyone have any information? Thanks.
\_ read http://www.idiom.com/~bryce/junkmail
\_ http://www.the-dma.org
\_ For marketers that play by the rules, the DMA is where it's at. |
| 2001/4/30-5/1 [Finance/CC] UID:21145 Activity:kinda low |
4/30 If I go to http://qspace.com to sign up for "Remove Junk Mail" which sends your info to MPS which stops companies from mailing you junk mail, will the amount of junk mail really decrease? Or will it increase? \_ Create a bogus email address which has never been submitted anywhere and send it in. See if it gets email. Let us know. |
| 2000/12/31-2001/1/1 [Finance/CC] UID:20205 Activity:nil |
12/30 http://www.kersplebedeb.com/shop/heroes.htm \_ Jesus was gay? http://www.kersplebedeb.com/shop/text.htm \_ and did you know that shakespear was actually female? and that aliens have been living amoung us since incan times? read more in this week's News of the World |
| 2000/11/18-19 [Finance/CC] UID:19834 Activity:kinda low |
11/17 Let's say I'm a 95 year old guy with a lot of credit cards. I
charge them to the max and then I die. What happens to the bills?
\_ Funny how people around here are so smart, they can just make up
the law and spew it over the motd with such an forthright sense
of confidence and knowing. Your heirs are not responsible. You
can't wrack up tons of debt and leave it to Bill Gates. Sheesh.
Hope none of you are wannabe law students.
\_ Your heirs are responsible
\_ Get overdraft/death protection on your cards.
\_ not true. it is no legal to make your heirs responsible
for your debts. but of course your creditors can get money
out of the estate you leave when you die. which means
less money for the heirs. if you don't have any
estate to leave... ok maybe the above is a win!
\_ can you refuse to be an hier?
\_ No.
\_ just make Bill Gates your heir.
\_ Now that would be interesting.
\_ Just do it!
\_ The debts are paid off from the estate and then the rest is paid
out to the heirs, if any, according to the will or trust in place. |
| 2000/9/6-7 [Finance/Banking, Finance/CC] UID:19188 Activity:insanely high |
9/6 motd poll: Would you continue a relationship with a SO after you
find out that he/she has a lot of debt? This is assuming that you
have no debt. Love might conquer all, but I'm curious how many people
go for the more pragmatic approach to a relationship.
\_ A pragmatic relationship isn't a relationship. I think you're
looking for a business partner or vc funding. I suggest removing
yourself from the race so you stop ruining perfectly good people
the rest of us might find attractive before you leave them bitter
and angry and hating everyone.
Debt is not a permanent condition, unlike your shallowness and
\_ how much debt?
\- it depends what tthe debt says about the person.
\- it depends what the debt says about the person.
student debt != crack ho. --psb
\_ I was ~$30k in debt when I graduated (stupid out of state tuition)
and now have paid off & $30k in savings after 2 years of working.
debt is not a permanent condition, unlike your shallowness and
ignorance.
\_ once in debt, always in debt. Economic awareness != shallowness.
People come and go $'s are forever.
\_ I would pay for her/him if s/he is really a SO of mine.
\_ Never sleep with anyone with more problems than you. - tpc
\_ and that's why you haven't been getting any, eh?
\_ All debt is bad. Ditch them and find someone who is economically
sound immediately. (There are some undergrads and grad students
that actually make money while going to cal. I doubled my net worth
from ~ 30K to ~ 65K in the four years I was at cal. I paid my own
tuition & expenses).
\_ we can't all run meth labs, sky
\_ I earned my money via investing and working (during
breaks and part-time). I was also lucky to have been
in school during the bull 90's and to have worked for
a company that let me do ESPP as an intern. - ! sky
\_ sky didn't come out much ahead while at school. i
remember being drunk and broke a lot going to those
clubs with sky. -uctt
\- i dont see what these personal anecdotes mean.
debt is the wrong target. it isnt good or bad. if a
particular case of debt means "this person has little
self control and cannot live within his/her means"
it's hard to claim that is a positive. if the debt
means this person is self sufficient but not rich,
it means something totally different. if you reaction
to this is "i respect that" that is one thing, if your
reaction is "they wont bring much to the relationship
in a material sense" that is something else. --psb
\_ If they are in debt then it places a financial
burden on them as well as you when you are in a
relationship. No debt is good. Look for people who
know how to avoid debt (its not that hard and the
people who know how to do that are better for you
in the long run).
\_ DEBT is BAD! Any kind of long term DEBT! (A few
hundred (or thousand depending on your incoming)
per month on a credit card is okay provided you
pay it off at the end of the month and never carry
a balance.) |
| 2000/8/16-17 [Finance/CC] UID:19011 Activity:kinda low |
8/16 Can anyone recommend a good online credit-card accepting mechanism
for a not-for-profit to use? --jnat
\_ pay-pal?
\_ Have a look on http://photo.net. I believe Philp Greenspun wrote an
article (or a chapter in his book) detailing a web site he set up
to accept credit-cards for a non-profit. -dans |
| 2000/7/13-15 [Finance/CC] UID:18657 Activity:high |
7/13 Anybody on soda using bill pay services like http://paymybills.com or http://paytrust.com? How do you like it? I want to sign up, but I can't get past the trust issue. The idea of somebody looking at my credit card or phone records spooks me. \_ Those companies are lame. Yo can always get the same services like that from your own bank. Most banks offer for free if you meet certain criteria such as minimum balance or auto-direct deposit. \_ most banks offer payments.. but not receiving the bills as well (only a couple). i use paytrust and like it. only diff i know between paymybills and paytrust is paytrust is primarily a NT shop and paymybills is mostly solaris. both have a 3 month free trial as well (it takes 1 1/2 for your first bills to start showing up b/c of change of address). whatever -shac \_ Just out curiosity, why would you want a third party to receive your bills? I doubt I would want anyone to see my cellular phone bills or credit card bills. \_ And how do you know you like it when you're not even getting your own bills?! *NEVER* give _any_ third party company the right to withdraw your funds at their whim. \_ it takes a month or so for your bills to start going to them. you still hafta say "pay this bill from that acct and this much.." very useful if you travel alot and still want to be able to review the bills in detail before paying. you can live paranoid forever. if you use direct deposit then you already gave a third party the right to withdraw funds. who fucking cares? -shac \_ DD is *not* a withdraw right. It isn't about being paranoid. It's about control of your life and not giving access to your money to some bunch of fools who are lucky to have Hayward degrees in art and the identity thieves they hire. Best of luck to you. I'll keep my own identity, thanks. \_ every DD enrollment form ive ever seen has a line that says you authorize them to withdraw funds as well.. so they can cover their ass if they give you too much money. -shac \_ Not mine. Not my last one or the one before. I read that stuff carefully. Anyway, DD is still not the same as some random .com having authority to pull funds to pay people you may not want paid or just in general having too much information about you in the hands of the random people they hired. If you were an identity thief, at what sort of company would you try to get a job? \_ http://my.yahoo.com BillPay is cool. 3 month free. Give it a try. \_ I use http://citifi.com as my bank, and I get my bills, and I use the webpage to have citibank cut checks and mail them to whomever. They do this for free. Best deal I've found. Total control by me, free, privacy equal to a normal bank. Other benefits to citifi as a bank as well. \_ WellsFargo and BofA have this as well. Together with http://paypal.com I haven't mailed a check in a while now... |
| 2000/7/12-13 [Finance/CC] UID:18647 Activity:low |
7/11 http://www.cyberrebate.com \_ All their stuff is cheap, and the pre-rebate prices are totally inflated. |
| 2000/7/10-11 [Finance/CC] UID:18628 Activity:low |
7/9 When you guys buy mail order stuff, do you usually send it to
your work place or at home?
\_ I send it to the same address listed on the credit card account.
\_ Work. Even if buying with a private credit card. I've had stuff
damaged by being left in the rain or snow at home, while at work
the mailroom will just put it in my office for me. - seidl
\_ definitely work. If you're not home to pick up your shit, you
get this yellow tag which says you need to pick the shit up during
your work hour. |
| 2000/7/8-9 [Finance/CC] UID:18619 Activity:high |
7/7 Chicken and egg question: I want to apply for a credit card and
never had one before. I apply for one and get rejected because
they said I don't have a credit history. How are you supposed
to have a credit history, required to obtain a credit card, when
you've never had a credit card to develop that history?
\_ This is why you apply for a student card before graduation.
\_ Have a bank account? They will probably grant you a card.
\_ That's how I got a credit card. I opened an account at
Bank Of America, and after a month or so of maintaining
the minimum balance, they offered me a visa card. I
like BofA's visa since you can check its balance and your
checking accounts balance online. ----ranga
\_ Try harder! Apply for a few more. My ex is a foreign
student from a third world dirt poor country, had no money
and was 19 yrs old. Even she was able to get a credit card
after a few tries.
\_ Idiot. if you're smart, you dont WANT a credit card. All
you need is the ability to pay for this electronically,
without costing you money. You get that by getting an
account at almost any bank, that offers a "debit card",
so any place that takes visa, you can pay for stuff.
Do that for a year or three and you will be buried in
offers for credit cards.
\_ Idiot. You can't buy anything bigger than a breadbox
without a good credit rating. You WANT a credit card.
\_ Idiot: ever try and buy a house/car, get a loan for said
if you have no credit history? Any fool who uses a debit
card to buy stuff online is BEGGING to have their money
stolen. At least with a Credit Card they AREN'T STEALING
YOUR MONEY, but some bank's. Provided you have a no annual
fee card and you make all your monthly payments, it costs
you nothing to have and use your card.
\_ I have done transactions with a debit card, and a
credit card. I have experienced fraud with both.
The credit card made me fill out a form, mail it in,
and wait a month. The debit card took my complaint over
the phone, and gave me my money back IMMEDIATELY, no hassle.
\_ i had debit card fraud and it took the bank about 3 weeks
to give me back my money, and I had to fil out forms,
call people back all the time etc. During that time my
bank account was compeltely cleaned out and I couldn't
even pay my rent without borrowing money. It sucked.
\_ I would mostly agree with this, but if someone ever gets
your account number with a debit card, they can clean out
your account which could lead to bounced checks and other
unpleasant things, but if this happens with a credit card,
it should be a little easier to handle.
\_ Just remember that you won't be liable for more than $50
if reported within one day or $500 if reported between
2-60 days. The bank would reverse the fees for you, and
so on. I agree it's more of a pain, but not impossible to
deal with. Also, most debit cards (and credit cards,
too!) have a daily maximum and maximum purchase limit
that the customer is not informed of without asking. --dim
\_ I thought it was $50 max, as long as your reported
it in a reasonable amt of time (30-60 days, or whenever
you get your bill).
\_ http://www.natlconsumersleague.org/debitbro.htm#whatif
\_ With credit cards, you also delay paying your expenditures,
and let your money earn more interest in the bank. Real
Men (tm) have self control over their spending. They don't
need no debit card to assist them. But if you are not a
Real Man (tm), don't pretend to be one, just get a debit
card.
\_ If !Real Man, shouldn't even get a debit card. Let
yer mom handle your money.
\_ Obviously, with the rate of bankruptcy in america,
this is not the home of Real Men.
\_ Geeze. Just use cash then.
\_ Another way to develop credit is to take a small loan
with the bank you use. They can see your worthiness from
your bank statement and job. Then, regularly make payments
on the loan to develop a credit history. NOTE: dont
pay it off too soon because it should take 6-12 months.
\_ Some credit card companies have special "student" cards. My first
two were discover and I think chase. Low credit limits, but just
use them a bunch and pay them back in full. Then you're golden!
\_ One thing you can do is get a "secured credit card". With a
secured card you give the card company X dollars and you get
a credit card with a limit of X dollars. It functions like
a credit card but if you don't pay your bills the company can
just keep your deposit. The advantage of a secured card over
a debit card is that you get the consumer protections of
credit cards. This means that if someone makes fradulent
charges you can get your money back, which is not he case
if you have a debit card. Citibank used to offer a secured
card back when I was a freshman at Berkeley. -emin
\_ Best is to get one of those free low-limit credit cards
when you're still in college. It's easier for college student
to get a cc than someone with a degree. After graduating,
sign up for magazine, respond to junk mail, fill out those
product-warranty cards (and write down a high salary), and then
you'll be swimming in credit card applications (like the
junk mail the other above poster has got). Do not do those
"secured credit cards", unless you already have BAD credit.
\_ Bah. Just get a "secured" card, which you are pretty much
guaranteed to get. Then buy stuff with it and pay it off
immediately. In 6 months, they will be be begging you to
often give you automatical qualification. UCB employees
take their regular card.
\_ Well, suit yourself, but it just seems weird on some
level to be giving someone money ahead of time for
a credit card. I agree with the other poster who said
get it thru your bank. Also, use Credit Unions as they
often give you automatic qualification. UCB employees
doing you a "favor" by giving it back to, along
and most high-tech and defense-contractor companies
offer CU memberships. Check it out. They often give
better interest rates too. A place that still pays
you for the use of your money. Screw BofA and WF --
they hold your money and then act like they are
doing you a "favor" by giving it back to you, along
with charging you monthly fees and atm fees as
they continue to also make interest off your money.
\_ Just get a student card and be done with it. I did it in
my senior year and have fantastic credit now. My first
two cards had shitty limits but they had no annual fees
and I only wanted a credit rating anyway. |
| 2000/7/8-9 [Finance/CC] UID:18617 Activity:high |
7/8 question related to below: does anyone know how to stop getting
junk mail from the credit card companies? I have exactly one
debit card that has the mastercard logo on it, and dont ever want
antoher card. unlike other junk mail supliers, i cant find a [way]
to call and complain, and each time its from a slightly different
bank. if i just throw this shit out without shredding, some
jerk can fish it out and get a credit card in my name. how do you
fight these bastards? it's bad enought that they have to
ruin the lives of people gullible enought to use their "services",
they have to threaten my credit too?
\_ call the credit agencies and they should be able to help you
out
\_Buy a shredder too. They're not expensive.
\_ I just rip them in half, without opening them, and then toss
in the garbage. Never got defrauded. The applications require
some personal credit info too. If you are so worried, you should
get a POBOX and also only put your outgoing mail at the main
post-office, because anybody could steal your mail and get
a lot more juicy info on you. Also, make sure you change
your address every few weeks, otherwise someone could order
a bunch of Good Housekeeping magazines or Columbia House
music CDs in your name and not pay for them.
\_ You just rip and toss? Uhm, say, where do you live?
\_ Oakland. |
| 2000/5/8-9 [Finance/Investment, Finance/CC] UID:18201 Activity:high |
05/08 Costco no longer accepts Discover Card (only AmEx) is there any
reason to keep the card now?
\_ what's the deal with Amex Blue and their special "internet"
chip, or something like that? How does it work?
\_ It's an advanced new technology known as marketing. AmEx uses
it to pitch cards with so-called "smart-chips" as the next big
thing. smart-chips are just small embedded processors in the
card. They don't do anything special. They've been used in
Europe for decades, but they never caught on here. Grab a
Streetspace card if you want to see one up close. Otherwise,
Blue is just a more traditional credit card issued by AmEx
(pay over time instead of every month), with some decent anti-
fraud measures in the legalese. -dans
\_ I feel sorry for you if you ever have to depend on AmEx's
anti-fraud measures because you're going to be raked over
the coals; I especially like how they send replacemet cards
to people impersonating you at different addresses since
they have to claim to be so convenient for travelers
\_ Is that smart-chip thing the same as what's called SIM card
in Europe, like the ones used in cell phones? -- yuen
\_ Same idea, but different card and chip. The main
advantage with smart chips is that you can store much more
data on the chip than you can on a magnetic stripe. Of
course, there are also clever uses for the chip's
processing capagilities as well, but nothing THAT clever,
processing capabilities as well, but nothing THAT clever,
which is part of the reason they never really caught on.
-dans
\_ Dan is almost right. Smart cards != regular
chip cards. Smart card = microprocessor +
storage with external power source, chip card
is usually just storage (cash cards, etc.) Smart
cards are generally used to store small
applications or authentication algorithms, and
they're in quite frequent use over here. The
problem is that no single US credit card outfit
has seen fit to sponsor C-SET or a similar
chip-based security mechanism due to costs, over
the current SET (secure electronic exchange)
transaction "security". Cf. French credit cards
which would be far more secure, except that
they use antiquated, crackable chip tech. -John
\_ *And* they're _French_. And we all know what
_that_ means!
\_ I think Discover Card offers cash rebate. (I don't have one.)
-- yuen
\_ Costco accepts AmEx now, right?
\_ Yes, and ATM |
| 2000/1/17-19 [Finance/CC] UID:17252 Activity:high |
1/16 Comment on 1-800-US-SEARCH. I paid $39.95 to search for someone.
They came back, and said "The person you requested could not be
found. Thank you for using 1-800-US-SEARCH!". I got a $39.95 bill
in my credit card the next month. One word of advice:
don't use these fucking lame ass search services.
\_ Duh. Contest it.
\_ Duh - they did the search, it didn't pan out. Unless they
guarantee success, what's your complaint, really?
\_ The complaint is that he got taken for a $40 ride.
\_ Not a valid reason to dispute charges with visa.
\_ It's cheaper for the search company to refund the 40 dollars
than to mess with Visa. Visa is big and brutish and likes
its customers.
\_ Sure it is. You can dispute anything. In fact, in this
case he should since they didn't even both reporting what
form of search they used, how close they may have gotten,
etc. I'll bet a complaint to Visa will turn up a much more
detailed report from the search company.
\_ If they dont refund your money, then call up your credit card
company and complain. At NO POINT pay the disputed portion of
your credit card bill. By the way, you can find anyone, there
is no such thing as "could not be found", unless you supply
totally wrong information. And, if they are a berkeley alum,
you can definitely find them. Who do you want to find? What
information do you possess?
\_ He was looking for the Easter bunny.
\_ email "7 on your side" - the guy is an ass |
| 1999/12/29-30 [Finance/CC] UID:17114 Activity:high |
12/28 My credit card gives me 1% back on my purchases and 5% back on
Shell gas stations. I always pay everything back each month. How
the heck do credit card companies make money? Am I still considered
a valued customer?
\_ Where can I get such credit card? -akopps
\_ Pick up an application at any Shell station.
\_ For every person like you (and me) that pays everything off every
month, there's a few dozen fools that work up a huge debt. Don't
worry about the CC companies. They'll squeak by without you.
\_ Credit card companies make more money on vendor fees than
on finance charges. Lets say you charge $500/month and the
card is charging the vendor 1.75+%. The money is tied up an
average of about 25 days if you pay on time so they can cycle
about 13 times a year (slightly less because of uneven spending
patterns around the holidays). That's 22+% on the money in
play, with finance charges from rotating debt being gravy
on top of it. Subtract for clerical and collection
overhead and they're still doing just fine. -mel
\_ Mel, no. The point was that most people _dont_ pay on time.
This means that the $500 someone charges in month 1 becomes
$525 (randomly chosen number for example) in month 2 and up
and up forever right to their $5k limit (randomly chosen).
Most people only pay the minimum each month on each card
\_ twink- min is 2-3%, more than interest. -jor
which not only doesn't pay _any_ principal (sp?) it doesn't
even cover the total interest! The lesson here is that most
people are too dumb for their own good and either end up
way over paying on their purchases or for quite a few folks,
end up declaring bankruptcy which screws up all sorts of
stuff for years and years.
\_ twink- min is 2-3%, more than interest. -jor
\_ Survey says, "NNNNNN!" Try again.
\_ The vendors are paying transaction costs and for the (inflated)
costs of things like terminals. Also, you're not considered as valued
a customer as one who tends to carry at least some balance. --dim
\_ They're legally not allowed to pass the cost along.
\_ ^legally^contractually.
\_ I was pretty sure it was "legally". Oh well. Anyway,
a contract is 'legally' binding. -feeling semantic
\_ Where did I say that they did? Of course, the costs
are hidden in the "operating expenses" anyhow and
the customers paying cash get to contribute too. --dim
\_ Vendor pays 1.5-5% transaction fee, dependent on the volume.
\- they are still making money on the gas purchase, they can
sell you name and consumer info, and occasionally you might
slip up on a payment. good point about making money from the
vendors. --psb
\_ Even if the credit card takes no profit, they still
have your cash flowing through their company, even
if you pay your bill on time. Anyone with billions
and billions of dollars flowing through their doors
on a constant basis will find a way to make money off
it. BTW: 5% on shell gas is usually more expensive
than other stations. Cheaper to go to yer local
Cheveron or Exxon with a lower price, get yer 1%
most of the time. Your milage may vary.
\_ Even cheaper to go to Thrifty station on Telegraph. |
| 1999/11/23-26 [Finance/CC] UID:16945 Activity:high |
11/23 Are there any online brokerages in the US that allow you to deposit
cash from your credit card, rather than bank transfer/check/wire?
-John
\_ Jesus, you sure you want to do this? I think margin rates are
lower than most credit card rates. And this is a way quick way
to lose your shirt.
\_ No you misunderstand; I don't want to invest on credit (I
always pay my full balance anyway.) It's just that a credit card
is a very easy way to transfer money from Switzerland to the
US without going through difficult Swiss banks and stupid
American banks. Plus, the concept of a check doesn't really
exist here (so outdated!) -John
\_ Finance charges accrue from day 1 on cash transfers.
\_ So now you're funneling all those ill gotten Swiss bank held
gains into our God Fearing Peace Loving country? Go home ya
Euro-Mafia criminal! We don't want your blood money!
\_ Fear the day when I try to _avoid_ anything by moving
it to the US. Maybe I'll just invest here. -John
\_ In the blazing hot Swiss market? A bastion of
competition and capitalism making millions for
all the little guys.
\_ Do I care if I make x% return in the US or
x% here? Not really, plus my income &
capital gains taxes are way lower. -John
\_ Your return in the US = Swiss Return +5000.
\_ BTW, Visa charges 3% service charge for a credit card transaction.
Depends on the amount,the service charge may be more or less. Thus
you lose 3% in the market already even if you can do a credit
card transfer. Besides, I don't know if your Swiss Visa card
is US $ based. You may be charged another round for currency
conversion.
\_ No, it's a Swiss Mastercard and I have never been charged
any fees except ATM withdrawal and my annual charge. -John
\_ That's because the merchant actually pays
the credit card transaction fee. I doubt
, however, that your Swiss bank will be willing
to pay the 3% or so. (Ideally, the merchant
always pays the transaction fee, but people
have found ways to get around it. That's way
you can get a cheaper price if you pay cash
instead of by credit for big purchases like
cars).
\_ Is it a Eurocard? Most European "credit cards" are
technically debit cards. -muchandr
\_ there's no "conversion", it ain't cash.
\_ well, Visa charged me conversion fee when
I bought stuff in Tokyo. And I wasn't paying
cash.
\_ Because the Yen is yucky.
\_ AH HAHH HAH YOU'RE ALL DOOMED! TAX-PAYING IMPERIALIST SLAVE
PIG-DOG FOOLS! We own you! UBS owns you! ZOG owns you! We will
snap the whip of control over all you drones' backs from within
our invincible mountain fortresses full of ill-gotten laundered
colombian nazi drug money gold bars! Bwahahaha! -John ("Hans") |
| 1999/8/12 [Finance/CC] UID:16298 Activity:moderate |
8/12 If any more proof is needed that american consumerism is getting
out of hand: I just got junk mail for a "titanium" credit card.
\_latinum card |
| 1999/5/25 [Finance/CC] UID:15876 Activity:nil |
5/25 A Silly Valley company has offered to give me their e-commerce
account to sell a few jewelry items on their website, and as a
newbie to this, I'm not sure what I quoted as a ballpark figure for
total cost of setup was accurate. I made up a range of $7K - $10K
to enable one click credit card purchasing and shipping on the site,
as an e-commerce solution. Should I have asked for more? Less???
Help! (I also told the CEO the turn-around time was 1.5 months
until project completion.)
\_ you're a moron. Asking these questions on the motd just shows
that you're not capable of being an e-commerce consultant.
\_ yah, I feel kind of dirty just offering advice - i mean, it
shouldn't be this easy, right? asking for pointers on the motd?
but something tells me it is this easy
\_ wow. what a steal. assuming you dont have to buy any hardware.
\_ If you need to ask these sorts of questions in the motd, then
six weeks will be difficult for you to deliver on. Dealing
with the credit card business people can be a pain, even if
the technical part of the job isn't.
\_ It's possible for 1-2 persons to do it in 5 days + waiting
for domain names / credit card merchant account / site hosting
/ product info - ack now I feel more dirty
\_ try http://atsbank.com for what services they offer, and also to check
out the names of shopping cart engines |
| 1999/3/3 [Finance/CC] UID:15527 Activity:high |
3/3 Can anyone recommend a good credit card? I like Discover because
you get around 1% of what you charge back. Unfortunatly most
places have stopped taking Discover. The Visa card which gives
you frequent flier miles is good too, but you have to pay an
annual fee. Are there any other good cards out there? By the
way, I don't carry a balance so I'm not interested in APR.
Thanks. -emin
\_ i hadn't noticed that places had stopped taking discover...
in fact, i'm using my discover card in more places than ever
now. who has stopped taking it?
\_ I am on the east coast now, so we might shop at
different places. -emin
\_ I like the Citibank Visa card that gets you 2% or maybe it's 2.5%
of your purchases back toward any car, new or used. You will
eventually buy a car most likely, and this is the greatest
percentage reward I know you can earn. Ford & GM used to have
cards that would give you 5 %, but only good toward a new
Ford or GM, respectively. The Citibank card demands no loyalty.
\_ Ride bikes save money save the planet live longer
\_ Yeah whatever. Shut up idiot.
\_ Live in third world courntry and you save even more.
You can even survive with your $10 a week income, too.
\_Try the credit card search service, http://www.getsmart.com which will
identify the best card for your needs. |
| 1999/1/2-4 [Finance/CC, Computer/Rants] UID:15166 Activity:high |
1/2 I got a $2000 credit on my MBNA credit card bill listed as
"PMT From Bill Payer Service". What is a bill payer service?
\_ It might be a scam. Maybe you should ask MBNA?
\_ sounds like an EFT payment happened.. possibly by mistake.. -shac
\_ What's an EFT payment?
\_ yup. Maybe you should spend it all and close the card. :)
\_ max out your credit cards and then visit Dr. Kevorkian
\_ then how will i pay the doctor's bill? |
| 1998/6/22-23 [Finance/CC, Recreation/Dating] UID:14233 Activity:kinda low |
6/22 These fuckers are going down. Help me do it:
http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/12320.html
\_ Looking at online porn is nothing to be ashamed of. Paying
for it is. Paying for it and getting screwed is even
more embarrassing... :) -John
\_ And what did these people _think_ was going to happen when they
unquestioningly gave their credit card number to some sleazy
porn company over the net? Like, duh.
\_ Look now. I have given my credit card number to probably a dozen
porn companies and none of them ripped me off. So your position
is that if you buy porn, you deserve to be ripped off? Let me
me guess, you're either a man-hating feminist or a religious
freak, right?
\_ Y3AH, D00D!!!1! TH0S3 DYK3 F3M1NAZ1Z N" J3SUS FR33KS JUST
D0N"T UND3RSTAND TH3 _N33DS_ UV _R3UL M3N_ LI3K U N" M3!!1!
\_ Or more likely, an online porn consumer who was once
ripped off. |
| 1998/2/19 [Finance/CC] UID:13698 Activity:high |
2/19 Should I get a Platinum Visa from First USA? -- cm1ee
\_ No. 1.) you'll never get the $500,000 limit, 2.) it's just
like a gold card, 3.) that 4.9% APR is first year only. This
"platinum" card won't help your rating more than any gold card.
\_ Checks that are charged to your card are useful. Also, my
platinum card has an APR of 10.9% (after the 4.9% expires). |
| 1994/4/11 [Finance/CC, Reference/RealEstate] UID:31556 Activity:nil |
4/11 For those insufficiently clueful, why has soda been down so much?
The memory shortage, or moving equipment around the office, or....
\_ It has nothing to do with the office, since soda isn't in there,
but here's a quick run-down of how often it has been rebooting:
reboot ~ Mon Apr 11 01:16
reboot ~ Mon Apr 11 00:20
reboot ~ Sun Apr 10 22:38
reboot ~ Sun Apr 10 22:17
reboot ~ Sat Apr 9 19:26
reboot ~ Sat Apr 9 16:30
reboot ~ Sat Apr 9 06:48
reboot ~ Fri Apr 8 21:12 |
| 12/25 |