11/18   Should cows be tipped?
        \_ of course. though I (and I think most people) usually just
           round up to the next dollar, and if that is less than 10%,
           add a dollar.
        \_ Why tip them?  They are being paid for the services.  Who started
           this kind of tipping system.  It so ridiculous.
           \_ shut up, overpaid software engineer - danh
                \_ also taxi drivers make like $2.00 an hour.  I know
                   it's not your job to make their careers viable
                   but it's something to keep in mind. - danh
                \_ If your're going to tip taxi drivers, barbers, waiters, etc,
                   you might as well tip other people providing services to

                   you such as garbage collector, postman, cashiers, etc.
                   \_ Well, if all those other jobs had their wages lowered to
                      reflect expected tipping, then sure.  Now if you want to
                      question which, if any jobs should be largely paid in
                      tips, that's another matter.
                   \_ Don't forget to tip your local software engineer.
                   \_ Most civilized people give their garbage collector,
                      postal delivery guy, etc a Christmas gift of some kind.
        \_ You can lament the tipping system all you want, but the fact is
           that, particularly in the U.S., we've adjusted salaries based on
           the expectation of tipping, so in a real sense you are only paying
           for the service if you tip the expected amount.  -tom
           \_ Well I was really asking what's "THE STANDARD". -op
              \_ http://www.tipping.org/tips/TipsPageTipsUS.html.  -tom
                  \_ You need to tip furniture delivery person???  I tip
                     people all the time but never to a delivery person.
                     \_ http://csua.com/?entry=11672
                     \_ Please tell me you tip your pizza delivery guy at least
        \_ Oddly topical article from last Friday:
           http://www.kcrg.com/article.aspx?art_id=92666&cat_id=123
           Gist being that driving a cab even in Cedar Rapids is dangerous.
           \-so is it ok to not tip if the service is seriously bad ... and
             i mean stuff under the service employee's control. --psb
             \_ No; you should tip the expected about even if the service is
                  ^ should be a comma.
                    \_ No. It should be a period.
                        \_ A semicolon is perfectly correct, if a little odd,
                           as it is.  The sentiment, however, is wrong -phuqm
                seriously bad, according to Miss Manners.  -tom
                \_ Miss Manners can suck a dick.  The whole point of tipping
                   vs. salary is that with tipping the customer can punish the
                   employee for doing a bad job or reward them for a good job.
                   It's basically an economic system of performance evaluation.
                   \_ Wrong.  15% tip for the waiter is part of his salary.
                      You can give more for good service.   -tom
                      \_ It's part of their earnings, but not part of their
                         salary.  If it was, it wouldn't be a tip.  They're
                         not entitled to a tip if they do a terrible job, and
                         that's borne out both in custom and law.  I always tip
                         but if someone was really rude or incompetant I would
                         not feel obligated.
             \_ Yes, of course.  The understanding implicit in tips is that
                your pay is performance-based.  Bad performance = less or no
                tip. --erikred
             \_ Sure, but some people feel it's OK to withold a tip for things
                out of a server's control, like bad food or a slow kitchen.
                \-yeah i dont mean for a minor slight like "my water glass
                  was empty for 5min. i mean something like a seriously
                  fucked up haircut. or a taxi driver who gets lost after
                  you specifically asked do you know where X is. --psb
                  \_ If I ask for more water twice and it doesn't come, that's
                     bad service.
                     \- if the wait person is stupid vs. surley vs. the
                        restaurant is understaffed, those are all different
                        scenarios in my book. there is bad service and then
                        there is stuff that actually will cost you money ...
                        waiter spills liquid on your clothes. it's the latter
                        cases where i think it is not unreasonable to imply
                        "this is coming out of your tip". --psb
                        \_ and of course, you think it's fine for people to
                           withhold your salary based on their own criteria,
                           and never tell you why.  -tom
                           \_ I have a legally binding contract governing my
                              salary.  I may also receive an additional bonus
                              as an incentive to perform; said bonus may be
                              allotted on purely subjective criteria, so
                              essentially, yes.  Service industry employees
                              hold jobs which involve providing service.  I
                              pay for this service already.  If they are not
                              being paid enough, it is a contractual issue
                              between themselves and their employers.  It is
                              not my problem.  I am already compromising far
                              more than I feel obliged to by adhering to
                              cultural norms suggesting I pay the service
                              staff extra for making an effort to provide
                              particularly good service.  -John
                              \-holube: do you think it is "better" that
                                to you tip a waiter than drops soup on you
                                and then write a letter to management
                                suggesting he/she is a lamer? the analogy
                                to "me and my employer" doesnt work because
                                one relationship is between 2 parties and the
                                other is between 3 parties ... and norms
                                that are sustainable in long term relationship
                                may not work in one-shot cases. it is not
                                feasible for me to tip 15% and then go to the
                                employer and ask for a partial refund because
                                of some problem. again i am talking about
                                cases where something fairly dramatic has
                                gone wrong. also the restaurant case is
                                likely different from others because tip
                                pooling is likely. there are certanly micro-
                                differences in service and tipping is one
                                place to allow for some flexibility [are you
                                a regular who is seated before other people
                                who got there before you? are you seated next
                                to the bathroom etc]. so why arent flight
                                attendants tipped? --psb
                                \_ I can't believe you guys had a whole tipping
                                   conversation without once mentioning Mr.
                                   White.  Philistines!
                                   \_ Do you know what this is? It's the world
                                      smallest violin, playing just for the
                                      waitresses.
                                      \_ Yeah! FUCK POOR PEOPLE!!
        \_ I always forget to leave a tip for the room service people
           in hotels.  Those people make atrocious wages too.