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| 11/22 |
| 2006/11/4-6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Politics/Domestic] UID:45170 Activity:nil |
11/04 Do people still want Joe Ayoob back in as QB? See motd from sept.
\_ As if anyone here remembers any single obscure motd entry from two
months ago that doesn't have to do with Dems vs. GOP or renters
vs. homeowners. Dolt.
\_ Someone claimed that Nate Longshore was worse than Joe Ayoob,
"Cal's worst quarterback ever." Cal is off to its best start in
(?) decades.
\_ Someone claimed that Nate Longshore was worse than Joe
Ayoob, "Cal's worst quarterback ever." Cal is off to its
best start in (?) decades.
\_ 5 decades |
| 2006/11/2-3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:45113 Activity:nil |
11/02 Does motdedit work for you all? It just dumps me out with a
successfull exit code (0).
\_ Works for me (using it now). Check your $EDITOR environment
variable. -gm
\_ Only GIRLY MEN use motdedit. -overwritinator |
| 2006/10/29-11/1 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:45027 Activity:nil |
10/29 Motd lawyers, help me: is it still legal for people to shove their
flyers under my door? I'm this close to going postal on the next person
who puts a flyer on my doorknob.
\_ Yes, it is. Unless you can point me to some local city or county
ordinance that prohibits the practice.
\_ See, now, the point of my post was so that YOU would find the
local or county ordinance for me. But thanks for playing.
\_ See, now, the point of my post was that YOU did NOT ever
name which county or city you lived in, so answering your
question is absolutely impossible, unless you wanted
someone to go down, city-by-city, county-by-county, every
single public nuisance law and make an analysis. The motd
response entry would then be about 50 pages long and would
take up several days of attorney time at my billable rate
of nearly 400 dollars an hour. Tell me where to send the
bill, give me a $5,000 retainer, and I'll get started.
Until then, thanks for playing.
\_ How much did you bill your real client to write that stupid
little rant on the motd? |
| 2006/10/24-26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:44955 Activity:nil |
10/24 just want to say .. I started using google reader. and I found
a decent motd rss feed ... its awesome. I'm back to motd
reading after a few months of not -- been getting more into
various blogs. maybe I'm just writing this to see my own
name in the google reader. no but really, fyi, its cool.
\_ Which motd feed are you using?
\_ I'm hesitant to say ... is having a motd feed w/in
the rules of the politburo? I dont want to get it
shut down ... and I dont know if the creator wants
the notoriety. |
| 2006/9/28-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:44596 Activity:nil |
9/28 Gotta love the motd: Eviscerating the Constitution only gets one
comment, but huffing and puffing about a China-U.S. lesbian fantasy
gets a dozen posts!
\_ that usually happens when most people realize how fucked up it is.
motd fosters arguments, but not so much rants. |
| 2006/9/19-21 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:44440 Activity:moderate |
9/19 emarkp, running wall through a filter so you don't have to read
swear words is pretty insane, but please don't start filtering
stuff I read too. That really bugs me. I know motd is offensive
sometimes, but there's that pesky 1st amendment. Go live in
the fucking nazi germany that the other right wingers are trying to put
us in and leave motd alone. -brain
\_ I think you need to read the definition of insane. My "censoring"
is deleting anonymous trolls addressed to me. I have as much right
to delete it as trolls have to post it. Or is no one allowed to
delete posts on motd? -emarkp (thanks for signing your name at least)
\_ Thanks brain for standing up to this religious bully. Most of
us are too scared to stand up to him let alone sign our names.
I mean, what if he passes my name to the Mormons who keep on
I mean, what if he passes my name to the fucking Mormons who keep on
knocking on my door? Scary. Anyways thanks brain.
\_ You're being a mean b!
\_ automunging of the motd is verboten. don't do it.
\_ automunging of the fucking motd is verboten. don't do it.
\_ Whoever restored this from a few days ago--why didn't you restore my
reply? -emarkp |
| 2006/8/19-23 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Recreation/Music] UID:44070 Activity:low |
8/19 The only country music station in Los Angeles, KZLA 93.9 will
finally stop airing. All the annoying billboards like "Ride a
Cowboy" will also stop. YAY!!!
\_ Could this mean that sattelite radio is taking over? If all the shit
between 87 MHz and 108 MHz were to go off the air, I would not cry.
\_ It's a dark dark day for us rednecks and Republicans. :( :( :(
\_ And you care enough to post to the Berkeley motd about some
random LA radio station because...?
\_ Because I move to LA -alum
\_ Because I moved to LA. -alumnus (motd grammar god was here)
\_ Yeah, make way for more important stuff like the Zombie
Preparedness Kit.
\_ The ZPK has more value to the motd than blather about some
radio station in another part of the country. Would you like
to hear about how when I was 12 the local radio station over
the border in NJ would play really bad music but then they
went off the air and got replaced by another bad radio
station? No, didn't think so. Boring.
\_ Go Top 40 music! -KIIS-FM fan
\_ Sat radio sucks ASS. Poor quality, commercials on most stations,
it's going to be bankrupt in ~4 years. Someone else will buy
their debt/etc and restart the system and run it properly. |
| 2006/8/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:44033 Activity:nil |
8/16 Hey motd average dude, you are fucking boring. Your friend.
\_ seconded -average motd reader
\_ I agree. -average motd reader's friend
\_ I will try harder deleting political shit
\_ Oh, God, not this again. Look, fucker. Many people have
taken it upon themselves to rid the motd of politics, all
have failed. You will fail also, you'll just stir up the motd
and make it a zoo for a couple of weeks and make a lot of
people hate you. Other than that, you will change nothing.
\_ How about you try harder to grow up and just ignore it? |
| 2006/8/8-11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43946 Activity:nil |
8/8 As tom pointed out earlier, due to the controversy of putting ads on
the Berkeley MOTD for non-profit reason on a campus network, the
experiment will not begin. There is a chance that the entire site
will be moved off-site, on a non-Berkeley affiliated network. The
ETA for the site migration will probably be some time this year.
Until then, no ads will be shown, and the Berkeley MOTD will still
be served at the same exact same url. Thanks for your patience. -kchang
\_ tom, if CSUA solicits PayPal payments where PayPal takes a
2.7% cut in profit, wouldn't such solicitation be questionable
since commerical businesses are involved?
\_ I doubt it; the CSUA in that case is paying for a service,
not advertising a company. -tom
\_ tom, when we hold infosessions for companies and they
give us free HP Rubix's Cube or free Yahoo shirts, aren't
we advertising those corporations in return for toys?
\_ Again, a job session is in service of Berkeley students;
adwords are not. But really, don't ask me, ask the
policy people; that's all I suggested. -tom
\_ Gosh darn it.So what are other ways CSUA can generate
revenues? It would be nice to buy current text books.
The ones in our library has mostly useless and outdated
books. Extra Xbox games would also be nice.
\_ Again, the most effective way to raise money is by begging
alumni or threatening to shutdown soda by claiming that
the hardware is inadequate to handle heavy loads.
Oh wait, that already happened earlier this year when we
had a week long simulated shutdown. Good job guys.
\_ Bake sale? I'd just make sure you don't buy texts
used in classes--theft...
\_ Men of EECS, erotic calender!
\_ I'm going to go wash my eyeballs with soap for having
read that.
\_ The scary part is, it's been done. (Squelch,
circa 1991). -tom
\_ urlP? Curious.
\_ September 2000. -gm
\_ Maybe they did it twice; the time I'm thinking
of was way before Y2K. thepro was on the
cover. It predated online versions. -tom |
| 2006/8/7-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43938 Activity:nil |
8/7 http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/Minutes/F2006/20060801.politburo.irc.txt Per Politburo's approval, the Berkeley Motd (formerly known as KAIS MOTD) will have advertisements on the right side, with proceeds going back to CSUA. Hopefully, people searching for UNIX help or looking for Intel chip info or any interesting and helpful topics on motd, will lead to more people clicking on the ads. In general the more technically helpful the topic is, the more click-thru-rates we'll get, so go ahead and contribute good contents [minus mindless political discussions] on motd for the sake of CSUA! -kchang \_ What are the rates, and are there CSUA discounts? \_ PS I haven't added the ads yet. It should be there some time towards the end of this week. I just applied for an account (5:20PM today) and it returned "Your application has now been submitted for review and we will follow up with you by email in 1-2 days." We'll have to wait. BTW I've never done this before, has anyone used the ad services from major ad companies before, and what kind of advice do you have? Thanks. \_ Alright, CSUA charity click fraud! \_ I kindly ask people to not click on the ads for the pure sake of generating revenue for CSUA. It is dishonest and does everyone a big disfavor, including ad consumers and ad producers. Ads that get excessive CTRs will in fact get tagged and future Berkeley sites may be subject to bans, and we may stop getting any revenue. Please click on the ads only if you're genuinely interested in buying the products. Lastly may I add that this is only an experiment, and may end should it fail. For example, it may fail to generate enough CTRs, too much CTRs (which gets us banned), or any other unforseable problems. \_ Don't be so sure. Political topics should generate lots of ads now that Nov 2006 is coming near! \_ Uh, like Vote For Pedro t-shirts and hats? \_ Vote for Pedro. -pedro \_ What is up with the "Pedro" meme anyway? Where is that from? \_ From the movie Napoleon Dynamite, you illiterate, non-movie going ignoramus. -pedro \_ Has the politburo checked with the campus policy people as to whether this is legal? It's a risky area. -tom \_ Excellent point tom. As someone who is intimately familiar with the University, do you think this would this be very different than say, ethnic groups in front of Sproul Hall selling ethnic food for club fund raising? \_ Yes, it's quite a bit different, because it involves corporate businesses. If La Raza let Taco Bell sell burritos at their table on Sproul and took a share of the profits, there would be some serious questions about the appropriateness of the activity. The Electronic Communications Policy says: "University electronic communications resources may not be used for: ... * commercial purposes not under the auspices of the University;" If KAIS MOTD were hosted somewhere else, as it used to be, it might not be an issue, but I think it's very likely a problem while it's hosted on a Berkeley machine. -tom \_ Interesting. Oh well too bad. |
| 2006/7/20-23 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43737 Activity:nil |
7/20 If you click on individual UIDs on the Berkeley Motd you
may see somewhat relevant links below the line "You may also
be interested in these entries." Below is an example:
http://csua.com/?entry=43724 |
| 2006/7/8-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43591 Activity:nil 50%like:43645 |
7/8 Berkeley MOTD's search feature is back. Have fun.
http://csua.com
\_ thanks!! kchang |
| 2006/7/3-6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43554 Activity:nil |
7/3 Will KAIS MOTD have search capability turned on again?
\_ No. Stop asking. Write your own.
\_ I stupidly coded the site such that some features need the suexec
capability (where cgi scripts that I as user kchang will run as
kchang instead of "nobody"), but it is disabled and I'm just too
lazy to spend any time trying to make features work without it. If
enough people petition root to turn it on then it may
just happen. BTW only the 24 hour diff and admin modify features
really need suexec. Search doesn't really need suexec
but I just don't have time or energy to play around with the code
right now. -kchang
\_ root, can we give kchan suexec access since he is doing a such
great public service for greater CSUA community?
\_ why we run without suexec (or cgiwrap) is beyond me.
\_ I can tell you why. The noobs trying to learn the zen of
soda sysadm think that suexec is like setuid, it has
that scary "su" and "exec" keywords that sound like a
something that would compromise soda.
\_ Isn't it more dangerous to run suexec and setuid?
\_ They're learning. soda is not for the alumni, it's for
the undergrads. They'll come around in time. |
| 2006/7/1-5 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43547 Activity:low |
6/30 England demonstrates that they are able to kick the ball right to
the goalkeeper.
\_ Lame. He _was_ good. If Rooney hadn't demonstrated that he was
able to kick the balls... -John
\_ http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~erikred/wallchart.pdf updated: 0100
Next match: July 4
\_ What is the point of this. Why dont you just send people
to the FIFA/Yahoo site:
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/calendar.html
\_ Did you miss the memo when I first started posting this
when I said you could just go to http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com?
Ah, obviously you did. Mostly it's for my own interest.
If this offends you, please remember to cut vertically,
not horizontally.
\_ Can you also start posting DJIA numbers and the GOOG
price every hour in the motd? Dude, I wasn't *offended*
you were doing this...I was just curious if I was missing
some value you were providing that was not available on
the Yahoo site. Apparently not. If people want to go
to a pdf instead of html and one that is far more lagged
in time, I don't want to stop them. If your "interest"
is sated by filling in numbers, maybe you are the one
with little to live for. For some extra amusement,
maybe you can also make the motd available as a PDF
on your website!
\_ Can you make that motd.pdf searchable by KAIS MOTD?
Thanks! ;-)
\_ Sorry, no added benefit. Just my own hobby. Also, it
takes less than five minutes per update to complete,
so I still have time to short GOOG, troll freepers,
ride bike, and wonder what BUD DAY would say. |
| 11/22 |
| 2006/6/27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43511 Activity:nil |
6/27 mtd: open /etc/motd: Permission denied
\_ Some root type needs to chmod g+w /etc/motd |
| 2006/6/19-21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:43431 Activity:low |
6/19 The motd is just not the same after account reactivation. So
boring, where did all the troller's go? How am I supposed to
get through my workday??!!
\_ They didn't let certain people come back.
\_ Don't worry, with the latest hack, there are lots of new people on!
\_ The motd isn't here to entertain you. You want trolls? Start
trolling. The motd is what we all make of it. I know you're
kidding. I'm not.
\_ There's a difference between knowing the troll, and walking
the troll.
\_ Dere's some difference between knowin' de troll, an' walkin'
de troll. What it is, Mama!
\_ The ratio of interesting poster to idiot is at a 5 year low.
\_ You sure you don't have it backwards? Trolling seems down to me.
\_ Sorry, too busy to do my usual muckracking/trolling. -Great Swami
\_ Let's see.. Guns are good. Guns are bad. Drivers' license for
illegals violates Article 1, Section 10. |
| 2006/5/26-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43202 Activity:nil |
5/26 Hallaluja, I'm back on the motd. Where's motdedit?
\_ /csua/bin/motdedit
\_ *now* it is, can we get a "me" softlink to that badboy too?
k,tnx. |
| 2006/5/24-28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43170 Activity:low |
5/24 In response to the moronic-nutjob-Stormfront-links, I wrote a script to
watch which hozers are editing the motd. To catch the bastard, merely
edit the motd with a reply giving a timestamp as soon as you notice it.
I'll come a running. And yes, your secrets are safe with me.
--michener
\_ If you have the power to squish, you should squish. Personally,
I'm offended by the ranting racist freeper URLs and I'm tired
of whoever's been posting them. They add little value to motd
and offend me greatly, not to mention it borders on harrasing
everyone else, and most importantly, "being a h0zer" which is
a squishable offense. I ask you kindly to squish whoever's
been posting these things. Thank you michener.
\_ You just need to catch whoever's doing the following:
% vi freerepublic
% cat freerepublic /etc/motd.public > temp
% cp temp /etc/motd.public
I already know who's been doing this without using a script.
\_ How do you know I am not mounting Soda's drives with
FUSEFS and SSH on my home linux box?
White Power! 14 Words! - danh
\_ What about people who use scp?
\_ I'm confused as to what you're requesting. Also, can we view your
source? I'm just interested in how you're doing this.
\_ How I was doing it is ~michener/watchmotdprocesses
\_ Only using what anybody else could watch. Essentially, it's
logging the output of ps to a file. ~michener/watchmotdprocesses
for the full script.
\_ Essentially, what I'd like is this:
Wed May 24 10:56:15 PDT 2006
\_ I asked bc I thought you were doing something cool/tricky
like what kchang is doing. but i don't know what he's doing
and he already gets a lot of shit for not being accurate.
Kchang, how does your name-guessing algorithm work?
\_ It's actually not that complicated. I assign villain
names to people based on a badly written semi-random
generator so certain people will get assigned to certain
villain names more frequently than the others. Why this
fascinates people who try to reverse engineer it,
baffles me a lot. I guess people like mysteries and
thrive on solving puzzles that don't exist in the
first place. -kchang
\_ The pp is asking about the actual person detection
process you use, assuming it's something better than
michener's running ps every 2 seconds. Like, maybe
you are also seeing who is idle/not idle when motd
changes. You must have something like that for
your "these people maybe did it" lists. I'm no
unix expert though and there are probably tools
I don't know about that would also help. Especially
with root access.
\_ My information gathering mechanism is exactly what
michener uses, albeit a lot more probalistic based
post-processing involved. In another word, it does
not catch people doing scp, CGI-BIN based writes,
cp, or countless other mechanisms that escape the
"ps aux" call. If you are on the network like some
people in soda, you can definitely write a sniffer
and a motd-change correlator, and correlate IP,
scp actions, and motd changes and find the perp.
There are other things you can do. However, the
only solution that'll catch every single person is
a solution that requires root. -kchang
\_ Why does it require any response? How is this any different than
the phone lines being tapped "for our protection"? And once you
eventually do figure out who it is, then what? Squish them? What
about that whole free speech thing? Does that only apply to people
we agree with? I find the posts repulsive and just ignore them
without comment. Feeding the trolls only makes it worse.
\_ I'll stop if it's too big a problem, but frankly, imo, whoever's
trolling deserves reprimand and potential sorryage. With politb
approval for the sorry, of course.
\_ Alright, fine. Stopped. You deal with the fucker. Just expect me
to be around motd less. --michener
\_ Reprimand for what? Posting perfectly legal political views
that don't match yours? I'm totally serious. I don't see
squishing people for posting their views to be appropriate at
what is supposed to be a liberal university. How about
instead you ignore them or refute them? Censorship and book
burning is not the answer.
\_ I agree with this. I don't like those posts any more
than the rest of you, and I appreciate michener's intent,
but censorship / squishage based on our opinions of
what's reasonable doesn't seem appropriate. -niloc
(I'm not saying logging would be wrong, necessarily.)
(I also acknowledge that certain posts, i.e. death
threats etc may be exceptions, and the line may be fuzzy.)
\_ Threats of harm, physical or otherwise, cross the line
from philosophical points about free speech and
censorship and into, well, harm. I'd be ok with
stripping anonymity from the motd, so long as it was
truly stripped; I'd want the names to be public to
everyone, not just root and someone's buddy. Otherwise
just leave it as it is. As long as we're talking about
who posts what, I think edits and deletes should be
logged too if the motd goes that way.
\_ Alright, fine. Stopped. Log deleted. You deal with the fucker.
Just expect me to be around motd less. --michener
\_ Addendum. You can't win if you try on soda. You have people
bitching because this kind of stuff shows up on motd. You
have (anonymous!) people bitching if you try to stop it.
I am jaded. --michener
\_ It isn't your responsibility to 'fix' it and I still don't
think anything is broken anyway. Also, I don't think your
script would catch them. I think your heart was in the
right place, but the people bitching about it should either
refute it or ignore it. Censorship is never the answer.
\_ I'll be frank -- I think that trolling is trolling,
whether white-supremicist or tree-huggers. I want it
stopped, but recognize that I was pushing lines of power.
And yes, it is my responsibility. soda is my responsibility
and I want to make sure y'all have a good time, alums too.
That's all. Just so much conflict that, like I say, I'm
out, man, bitching on both sides is more likely to be
ignored now. --michener
\_ You'll also notice that the script used no power that
an average user doesn't have. Anybody could be watching
and remember that. --michener
\_ The script you posted is really not effective,
as most of the trolls have long ago figured out
ways to mask their edits. (For example, reiffin
is very clever with "jove blah"). I think if the
politburo wants to do something about distasteful
or hate speech in the MOTD (which I think is a
reasonable thing to do), there's a simple,
effective solution; log edits. -tom
\_ Noted. --michener
\_ Thanks for the show of support tom. My technical
abilities are a bit higher than using a temp file
to hide anything especially since I told you years
ago I used 'blah' as my local copy. If I was
trying to hide anything I'd do a better job than
that and I wouldn't tell you what I was doing.
The fact is I'm not doing anything special to
'cover' my motd edits because I have nothing to
hide. If you're going to call anyone out, at
least get it right. Have a nice day.
\_ Hey michener! The above was posted at 3:21PM,
can you find out who posted it?
\_ michener you can do what you like really. I am in favor of
squishing this particular troll. It's a judgment call, sure, and
it's pretty obvious to me this moron has nothing to say that's
of any substance. Just because some other anonymous douche is
worried about it doesn't mean you have to give up. You have the
power to decide which course of action is better. You can
bet that with our group there's gonna be dissenters on any
decision... better IMHO to listen their comments but stick to
what you feel is right. After all that's why we have positions
of power and elections. The reason for squishing the moron/troll
isn't about censoring opinions. It's about harassment ultimately
and these very few anonymous morons have already driven away
plenty of folks from the motd. Maybe that's no big deal but if
we happen to find out who it is then just pull the trigger.
\_ or you can just delete the MOTD every 3 minutes like paolo
did
\_ Or you can keep bitching about paolo like tom did
\_ Or you can practice revisionist history like dans did
\_ I think my current stance for the time being (and probably the
summer) will be squish him if we figure out who it is by some
telltale sign or other, and discuss motd trolls first time I
can unite the politburo. --michener
\_ Remember, we went through this just last
semester. -jrleek
\_ Remember, we went through this just last semester. -jrleek
\_ Wow, how curious that this comes up once again. The
CSUA doth move in cycles. Well to summarize my
understanding of the decision in the past it was that
we would purposefully not log the motd, for a number of
reasons, one of which, personal privacy, and another of
which, the mere existence of logs allows them to be
susceptible to a subpeona (say someone threatens to kill
someone... etc). I think we made the right decision
then, this particular world editable cesspool works well
enough through personal censorship. It was also agreed
that the only real definitive way to log motd edits
would be with a kernel patch. Also, at one time there
was work (or at least interest in) a much more protected
form of MOTD editing than /csua/bin/motdedit (which
would make it harder for people to log users' edits).
-mrauser |
| 2006/5/22-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43152 Activity:nil |
5/22 Yet another wave of mental midgetry washes over the CSUA. Bright
young undergrads who wanted the motd web-indexed: this is one of
the main reasons why people were arguing against it. -John
\_ Please stop trolling us and just tell us whether you sympathize
with the Nazis or not. I don't know enough Swiss to say
whether a big proportion of them are Nazi sympathizers or not,
but I know first hand that many Austrians are. If you give a
straightforward yes (I'm a Nazi sympathizer) or no (I'm not
a Nazi sympathizer), I promise to leave you alone. Deal?
\_ Jesus H Christ, get some medication, son. You've been obsessing
about this junk nonstop for waaaay too long. It's not only
stupid, it's boring. -mice
\_ You're a pathetic moron. John doesn't have to say anything
for you, anonymous coward. If you're going to name other
people, post your own name, you fetid pile of refuse.
-jrleek
\_ Um, you know that Solomon is a *fucking*Jewish*name* right?
\_ Um, you know that Salomon is a *fucking*Jewish*name* right?
You do know that John is Jewish right? I don't have to explain
this to you, do I?
\_ ...stormfront and white-history. Good grief, Charlie Brown, who
gave the nutcases motd accounts?
\_ FYI, the current undergrads had nothing to do with motd indexing.
I only wrote the wallall RSS script. And that has been hidden from
Google. It was some predecessor who did the web MOTD. If you'd like,
in the near future I can look into hiding it too. In other words,
quitcherbitchin. ;) --michener
\_ kchang put some effort into getting rid of the
identifiers to protect the guilty. maybe you can too.
----------stupidity below this line---------- |
| 2006/5/12-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43042 Activity:nil |
5/12 Is it just me or is motdedit hozing a lot of change merges
lately? -John
\_ If there's any doubt, it's almost definitely you. -mice
\_ What happened to /csua/bin/me ? That's what I used to use? |
| 2006/5/10-12 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Security] UID:43004 Activity:nil |
5/10 Can we get kais motd intellidiff back now that cgi is re-enabled?
\_ No. "suexec" is not enabled so it is run as "nobody", which means
I need to make EVERYTHING world readable, including the index.cgi
in which I embed mysql password. I am not enabling anything
back till suexec is added. Until then, soda is insecure, and
I'm not going to risk security for convenience. -kchang
\_ root: Can we get suexec set up? -intellidiff #1 fan
\_ Mysql has fairly granular permissions. Why not set up an
account that has read-only access to the appropriate tables?
\_ Because it also needs to write to certain directories/files.
In the end it's a lot of trouble and I don't have
time to code a workaround now. Look. Enabling suexec
takes 30 seconds, so it is a solution that has a much
higher work/time ratio. I'm no no hurry. I can wait. -kchang
higher work/time ratio. I'm in no hurry. I can wait. -kchang
\_ How can we access mysql from soda?
\_ I compiled my private copy on a separate port and
not sharing it -kchang |
| 2006/5/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42998 Activity:nil |
5/9 Formatted most flagrant 80 column violations back to sanity. The
motd formatting god grows angry. We should all fear its wrath.
\_ Can't computers do this automatically these days?
\_ Yeah, but this is the CSUA. Lots of alumni love circa 1980
approaches to problems.
\_ Because we know the students will come up with some
incredibly brilliant technical solution just to spite us
curmudgeons. We wouldn't want to deprive you of the
learning opportunity. -John |
| 2006/5/1-4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42871 Activity:nil |
4/30 hello. i do not think the wall logs should be on the web
so easily. what do you think?
\_ Wasn't it always on the web in a txt file before?
\_ Can we get motd in RSS too?
\_ Couple problems with that:
1) It's more like a message board than a feed
2) All it takes is one person to booch the formatting
(unlike wall.log, which is consistent enough)
and the whole the whole thing stops working
mrauser's working on a message board anyway, stay tuned
\_ Actually, someone did roll a motd -> rss feed script, but I
don't know what's become of it. If it's lost and I find
some time, I'll do it as an excuse to learn RSS/Atom. -dans
\_ I wrote one, but cgi scripts still are not working
in my cgi-bin directory. I get "Access forbidden"
when I try to run them. -peterl
\_ looks like there's a bug in the httpd.conf:
<Directory /home/*/*/public_html>
AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
Options Indexes IncludesNoExec SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
ExecCGI
</Directory>
(note the "ExecCGI not on the same line as "Options")
If it were on the same line, you'd be able to put an
executable .cgi file anywhere under ~/public_html and
it would work. --dbushong
\_ Yeah, I built an RSS feed of http://csua.org/motd but it just sends
you an entire thread every time there's a change to any part
of it. Meh. --dbushong
\_ It's WALL! It's not like you're posting trade secrets or steamy
sex tapes. And if you're walling such things, I think you want
\_ Or tax returns. Oh, wait...
them to be found.... mostly it's inane chatter, but it's our
inane chatter, and we can track it now -- and to outsiders, it
reads like what it is. Inane chatter. --michener
\_ It's already tracked (or at least was before Soda got
paved) in /csua/lib/wall . Or did you not know that already?
Why do you want to make wall so easily crawlable by Google?
\_ I think there's a realistic concern for expectation of privacy.
Lots of people wall things like "my boss is an idiot," which
are not trade secrets but which would not be walled if the
expectation were that it would wind up on Google. -tom
\_ Which is why you have the choice of whether or not to log
your walls.
\_ I think that's stupid. How would you feel if all
of your IRC and AIM and Yahoo IM and Google Chat
conversations appeared when someone searches or
stumbles on your name in Google?
\_ Ah, but they don't. And wall doesn't have to if you
don't want it to.
\_ Are you a retard? I am making up a situation
to illustrate my point. If you start archiving
the wall log on google, this stuff will happen.
I have some pretty funny wall logs saved from
years ago where someone on soda accidentally
walls about some horrible things that I will not
mention because you will be scarred for life.
I would never ever put this somewhere google
would find it. Making everyone not log their
walls is stupid.
\_ Erm. Some people don't care whether what they
say is available to the public. Wall has been
\_ maybe you should start caring. I think
arbitrarily sticking soda walls on google
when soda walls predate google by like
10 years is not the correct way to do things.
\_ Uh, we've always done it this way so we
should keep doing it this way? That's
idiotic. -dans
public for a long time. The non-logging option
was put in for those who _were_ concerned. If
you want to use it, use it. If you're worried
about someone saving your non-logged walls, don't
wall. Who said anything about "making everyone
not log their walls"?
btw, RealClimate guy, you just overwrote me.
merge your changes.
\_ That's not a reasonable response. -tom
\_ That's not a reasonable response. -tom, arbiter of all
things reasonable
\_ IIRC, that's exactly why that functionality was written
into wallall. Also when lwall/walld was still running,
walls were publicly read/write available
\_ "publicly readable" is not the same as "indexed
by Google." And it is quite annoying when people
don't log their walls. -tom
don't log their walls. -tom hasn't attended a
politubro meeting or
csua event in years
despite working on the
Berkeley campus, but
still feels the
politburo and the
undergrads should do
what he wants, when he
wants it. tom commands
the politburo to give
him a blow job!
\_ Logging walls is so you can do a tail -whatever !*
wall_log when you log in and see the context of an
ongoing conversation, not to make it public ("public"
in this case being visible and indexed on the great
big Internet.) Meditate briefly on the difference,
young padawan--great truths may be revealed. -John
\_ Oh, look, an undergrad wrote some code to do
something new, and it messes with the little sandbox
we've been playing in for the last decade! Wah Wah!
Let's lynch the upstart prick! Seriously though, I
am disgusted by how certain alums treat soda and the
CSUA as their personal pissing ground, expect that
*nothing* will ever change, and abuse undergrads who
actually write interesting software. The situation
is fucked up. It needs to stop. -dans
\_ Take a chill pill, dans. This is about a
specific feature that would have undesirable
consequences for both undergrads and alumns.
Don't turn it into some battle of the ages between
us evil alumns and the poor oppressed undergrads
we're constantly shitting on. -John
\_ Um I don't think disagreeing with an idea counts
as abuse. The root post of this thread is just
someone expressing an opinion. Get over yourself.
The RSS thing is kind of cool but personally, I
don't think wall fits what RSS is for. Just
because you can do something doesn't mean you
should. But I hardly even use wall anyway so it
doesn't really matter to me.
What actually is the point of wall going out as
an RSS feed? wall is more of a real time
conversation mechanism, not a news feed thing.
Having motd.[official and/or unofficial] on it
would make more sense.
\_ No, disagreeing with an idea is not abuse, but
when specific alumni repeatedly gang up
against the undergrads, flame the politburo
and root, and troll the motd, it adds up to
abuse. What's so fucked about this situation
\_ Well you know, geeks sometimes don't have
the best social skills. They attack
\_ Then maybe we should go back to
beating social skills into them.
everything because this is how they function
in their engineering jobs. But they might
not be wrong.
is that there is a technological solution for
enabling wallrss while stopping Google from
spidering it, but none of the alums who bitch
so loudly are stepping up with code or configs
to solve the problem. Why the hell should the
alumni get to decide what the undergrads can
and can't do? That's stupid. -dans
to solve the problem. Just becaus you can do
\_ I'm still waiting for action on
the last two things I've "stepped up"
with.
\_ Namely? Maybe the ugrads are more
interested in rolling new
functionality than trying to
recreate soda exactly the way it
has been for the last decade?
Maybe they're busy kids doing this
in their spare time, not treating
CSUA root work as a paid job. -dans
\_ perhaps they (or you) shouldn't
suggest mailing root and stepping
up then
\_ Hey, if they (or I) can con
you into doing free work,
but pick and choose what we
implement when, more power
to us. -dans
\_ yes, it's always better
to jerk people around.
this is why people bitch
instead of doing stuff.
--------------------------------------/
\_ Actually, I find a mixture of jerking people around and
rewarding them works best. It simulates gambling, which
causes people to work like madmen. -dans
\_ I hope this is a feeble attempt at humor....
\_ No, I find it's a legitimate management technique of
last resort. Works nicely with ornery, lazy teams, but
isn't really necessary for teams of smart folks who get
things done. -dans
something doesn't mean you should, but if you
use that as an excuse never to do anything,
nothing would ever change. -dans |
| 2006/4/26-5/2 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42838 Activity:nil |
4/26 http://csua.com Berkeley MOTD is back in the form of static HTML. Search and other features (24 Hour Diff) disabled since they require dynamic CGIs. Enjoy! |
| 2006/4/23-25 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42806 Activity:nil |
4/22 From the minutes: "mrauser says he will look into setting up a
non-motd forum."
Farewell, motd. Nice knowing you.
\_ That's in addition to the motd, not instead of it.
\_ Will the new moderated forum allow us to expose dans as a
total nut case?
\_ er, hasn't this already been exposed to anyone
paying attention?
\_ I'd be more impressed if the new forum had a way to
hide the fact.
\_ If you want to host the source for http://csua.org/motd let me
know and it's all yours. If you want something that's actually
forum-like, nevermind. --dbushong |
| 2006/4/21-25 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42795 Activity:nil |
4/21 Um, does anyone miss the Berkeley MOTD? I guess not :(( -kchang
\_ I'll massage your ego. Yes I miss it but I figured it was still
down pending more important fixes.
\_ Ok good. I was thinking about turning it off for good, as
it may cut down on time wasted on it and maybe even
increase productivity, or something to that effect -kchang
\_ useful for the search feature -- better than skimming
cvs diffs. But I don't need to search all that often anyways
\_ It's very useful when the motd is hoppin', especially the
diff feature. However, the motd isn't as busy as usual right
now, since not everyone is back from the crash yet. I like
Berkeley MOTD, but I don't need it so much right now. -jrleek |
| 2006/4/17-20 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42766 Activity:moderate |
4/17 I would like to start a list of thing for root to fix at their
leisure (in no particular order):
- restore /csua/tmp
- Appears /etc/motd.public is not merged into /etc/motd
- tin (yes, I still use it to read usenet).
\_ trn, mtd
\_ dict
\_ tin (I was the op, but this either got deleted by accident or
it is installed. If installed, please point me to the correct
directory. Thanks).
\_ mtd does not have proper permissions to do this.
\_ motdwatch
\_ me (motdedit)
\_ /csua/bin/motdedit
\_ What in motdedit doesn't work? I believe the only error in it
is that it is running /csua/bin/mtd (the merging script) after
you finish editing. I think its working fine except for the
mtd program being borked.
\_ curl
\_ apache cgi
\_ turning cgi off in homedirs was a concious choice, we wanted
to give people the time to check out thier websites to make
sure that they weren't messed with. Allowing cgi's to be run
from user's homedirs could potentially allow the machine to be
compromised very soon after the re-install.
It was either disable them, or chmod 700 to _everyones_ public
html folder. I apologise if its inconvenient, but we will
re-enable them after a few more people have thier accounts
un-sorried.
\_ Perhaps as a temporary measure, you can make ExecCGI one of
the options that people may override in their .htaccess files
(see AllowOverride) so individuals may turn their cgi's back
on? -dans
\_ past wall logs aaron deleted
\_ waah waah you stupid cunt
\_ jove
\_ motdbrowser
\_ never heard of it
\_ jove
\_ Take this opportunity to learn emacs. Installing
jove is a personal accomodation we dont have the
luxury to bother with. |
| 2006/4/17-20 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42764 Activity:kinda low |
4/17 Interesting. Did all of the people that troll the motd with political
stuff forget to turn their accounts back on?
\_ Who are some of the users you will not miss? dans? tom? ilyas?
\_ Root is likely still in process of adding access back for everyone.
They'll be back -- it's just going to take a little time.
\_ shut up. I'm enjoying their lack of presence right now.
\_ Cool. This supports my hypothesis that they are parasites who
treat soda as a pissing ground, and think the motd is their
personal playground. Good riddance. -dans
\_ That sounds like the sort of thing a hippy tree-hugger would
say. Why do you hate our troops?
\_ Because they kill people and killing is wrong! The Bible
says so! -hippy bible thumper
\_ Hi dans, want to argue about world population and birth control?
\_ No. -dans
\_ don't want to risk of having account terminated due to certain
political view. Right now, it's too easy to blame Soda for
everything. |
| 2006/4/17-20 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42760 Activity:nil |
4/17 Our quota increased by a lot. What are some of the reasons why we
must keep /csua/tmp/*, besides storing tons *.mp3/mpg/avi files
around for eons?
\_ It's a bigger /tmp for sharing things.
\_ Ok, then autodelete anything more than 2 days old which isnt
world readable.
\_ I second this idea. /csua/tmp/* encourages people to
collect junk irresponsibly. If people must collect junk,
increase their quota, so they can be held accountable
for whatever quota they use. /csua/tmp/* existed before
the huge quota increase (20meg quota). The need for it now
is questionable.
\_ once again, my old motd archives in /csua/tmp got lost. I have
off-soda backups, I doubt I'll bring them back. -ERic |
| 2006/4/11-17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42736 Activity:nil |
4/11 Can some root-type person please restore /csua/bin/motdedit ?
\_ I don't have root, but you're more welcome to use
~kchang/bin/motdedit2
It has anti-nuke capabilities plus it doesn't clobber
other people up. I don't guarantee that it's bug free
so use it at your own risk. -kchang
other people up.
\_ setuid 123 permission denied? |
| 2006/3/26-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42442 Activity:nil |
3/26 I'm currently taking an approach to life that includes elimination
of things which are both unecessary and unpleasant. I'm not quite sure
whether rants on the MOTD qualify, but I'm leaning towards yes. In
which case, do they exist only because of immaturity? This is not a
troll, I'm interested in what people think. -jhs
\_ Log off. Go outside. Repeat.
\_ Posting them or reading them? :-) I suspect most of them are
posted from boredom and most reply out of boredom just to keep
it going to give everyone something to do during the day. If
motd rants are that high on your list then either you're spending
way too much time here or I envy the tiny unpleasantness in your
life. IMO, they're mostly harmless.
\_ I have lots of awesome right now -jhs
\_ Agreed, they're mostly harmless. I don't take the motd too
seriously, it's basically verbal jousting for me.
Occasionally it includes useful information. Once in a while
there's a good, i.e. well reasoned, thoughtfully argued,
discussion to be had, but, if the motd is representative, then
most CS folk have poor rhetoric and debate skills. It is a
\- The Calif state high school debate champions for 1985 work
for for Cisco and Tivo. For 1986 champions, one did CS
undergrad at the 'Fraud (but then as with his partner,
went to law school). Half of the best team in 1984 [didnt win
state but won the berkeley tourney] is working for Sun.
Another of the mid-80s power pair has one half who made a
lot of $$$ early at oracle and then went through so-so
dot coms and his parner did cs undergrad at UCB and then
PHD at UIUC in compliers.
dot coms and his parner did cs undergrad at ucb and then
phd at uiuc in compliers.
\_ I don't have stories this impressive, but 1/2 of my
HS debate team (~10 ppl) went to Cal for some eng.
major (mostly EE/CS). Many, including myself, have
since moved on to law school.
Of the last 4 interns I've hired from Cal, all were
HS Varsity debate w/ a tourney win.
I always thought that HS debate was basically some-
thing that many engineers did in HS b/c it was one
of those activities like chess club or computer club
where you could hang out w/ other intelligent ppl
and talk about completely useless stuff that normal,
well adjusted kids couldn't care less about (like the
benefits of running a counterplan).
reliable source for amusement in the form of trolling and
trash-talking. In my family, this was our after-dinner
entertainment. After we had a serious discussion about politics,
ethics, current events, or whatever over dinner, my brothers and
I would play a game of trash-talking top this. Although it's
crass, there is a real art to it and it takes creativity and
intelligence to do it well. If you find it unnecessary and
unpleasant then the motd probably isn't the best place to spend
your spare time. The motd has a tradition of crass trolling and
namecalling that predates both of us by easily a decade. -dans
\_ I've rant'ed on the motd from time to time and I think it was
helpful to have some people to talk to when things were going
badly at work, &c. Its like calling up your brother and blowing
off steam b/c QA can't get their fracking act together and you
have to spend ya weekend at work b/c of their screwups.
\_ Totally agree. And it's cheaper than therapy too!
\_ Sorry, I mean the flame wars more than the rants -jhs
\_ I guess flame wars are unpleasant, but I'm not sure
they are unnecessary. Sometimes its better for people
to work out their idiocy in a safe environment, like
the motd, rather than irl. I've had to work w/ some
real arses over the years; if they talked out of
arse on the motd instead of in the hallways, the
overall work env. would have been better. I'm guessing
that some of the usual suspects re flaming on soda
are probably nicer in person b/c they can get that
stuff out of their system.
Unless I'm really bored, I just skip the flame threads.
Usually there is plenty of non-flame stuff on the motd.
\_ Potato, potato. They do appear to be correlated. Perhaps a
better solution is to write some code. Imagine a motd viewing
utility that allows you to mark threads you want to ignore.
Voila, all the motd love, none of the flame wars. I've got
bigger irons in the fire, but I may right this some time.
-dans
\_ I am sure kchang has written this already.
\_ urlP
\_ http://wigu.com/overcompensating/2006/03/misspent-leisure.html |
| 2006/3/26-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42436 Activity:high |
3/25 dans, just an observation, please don't get mad at me. For a nice
quiet Saturday night, you sure are using a lot of exclamations and
a lot of cuss words. Normally I'd go out to the beach or somewhere
more interesting and pleasant than the motd. However, I have a project
that's due next week so I'm reading the motd. What's your excuse
for using the motd? Just curious.
\_ Heh. I'm not mad at anyone on the motd. I swear frequently in
informal situations, particularly when namecalling is involved.
``English, motherfucker, do you speak it?'' is a quote from Pulp
Fiction. I'm putting the finishing touches on some code I spent
the last month writing, and will put a release announcement on the
motd when it's ready. I read and respond to the motd while waiting
for emacs TRAMP mode to save files since it lags a bit when writing
to soda, which is actually due to a workaround for a FreeBSD bug.
As soon as I finish, I plan to either cuddle at home with my
girlfriend or go out partying with her and other friends. -dans
Fiction. If my language is harsh, it's provoked by people writing
posts that are either disingenuous (i.e. intellectually dishonest)
or outright stupid and naive. As for what I'm doing writing on the
\_ If it's "informal" which I read as "just the motd" then
why do you seem so easily provoked? If you're in a text
only world then when you slap unnecessary curses into your
rants you only come off looking like a ranting child. It
doesn't get any other point across.
\_ "One man's vulgarity is another man's lyric." -jharlan
\_ "One man's vulgarity is another man's lyric."
Who are you to judge? -jharlan
\_ This is your opinion, and you're welcome to it. Frankly,
trying to make a point on the motd is kind of silly.
There are a handful of people like John, jrleek and
myself who are open-minded enough to actually read the
motd and change our opinions based on a well reasoned
argument, and even admit we are wrong once in a while.
\_ emarkp still thinks the Iraq War is good.
\_ Nice and all but "English, motherfucker, do you
speak it?" isn't an argument. If you'd actually
made an argument then you'd have something. You
\_ Yes, the argument was that the pp's english
reading comprehension was poor since s/he
ignored the rather important phrase ``appear to
be'' in my statement. Apparently, foul language
interferes with your reading comprehension.
-dans
ranted like an idiot child. I don't care beyond
\_ Are you suggesting that all rants, that is,
violent or extravagant speech acts are childish
and idiotic? If not, what makes my `rant'
childish and idiotic? Please support your
statements with facts. -dans
\_ You realise I could go through your response
\_ sic
and toss your own "Please support your
statements with facts" line back at you since
you don't but it would be a waste of my time.
I was just trying to help you out but you're
obviously much more brilliant and clever than
me and on par with award winning drama which
I can't compete with. Thank you for sharing
your wit and brilliance with us. I look
forward to more random and off topic cursing
and avoidance of issues that were addressed
which you pretend weren't. All of this is
opinion but I'd bet anything that someone
who goes through life telling people,
\_ You are incorrect sir. Strangely enough,
you continue to waste your time by
responding to me. Funny that. -dans
I was just trying to help you out but
you're obviously much more brilliant and
clever than me and on par with award winning
drama which I can't compete with. Thank you
for sharing your wit and brilliance with us.
I look forward to more random and off topic
cursing and avoidance of issues that were
addressed which you pretend weren't. All of
this is opinion but I'd bet anything that
someone who goes through life telling people,
"English, motherfucker, do you speak it?"
is not going to do as well as someone who
doesn't, all else being equal. Perhaps your
\_ I do just fine for myself, thank you very
much. -dans
award winning brilliance puts you outside
the curve. Will you be providing any free
tickets to your motd followers to attend the
awards ceremony next year?
\_ Is this a sad attempt at humor? Or just a
weak insult? -dans
the bit waste generated but I thought you might
\_ Because bandwidth is a precious unrenewable
commodity. -dans
care how you come across to someone who doesn't
know you but it doesn't hurt me either way what
decisions you make for yourself. I've changed
my mind about numerous things based on what I've
read on the motd but never from anything from
a non-response like, "English, motherfucker, do
you speak it?". I don't even see why you'd bother
posting such a thing. Better to not post at all,
IMO. There are some situations where dropping some
curse words adds value; the motd isn't one of them.
\_ This is your opinion. Please provide facts to
support this. -dans
As an aside, I find it funny to see you switch
back and forth between holier-than-thou and
idiot-child mode, especially when you get into
holier-mode (and attack other random people who
aren't even here) to cover your moments of idiocy.
The opinions here on many topics cover a wide
spectrum and sometimes get heated and we joke about
the motd being a wasteland, but the truth is you're
talking to the top 1% edge of the general population
where "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?"
isn't taken well and adds nothing. Take care.
\_ by you; do you speak for the motd
populace at larges for they have
no voices to speak with? -dans
\_ While PP gives every indication
of being a pretentious blowhard
cock monkey, I think most
people here are getting a bit
tired of half of the motd being
the dans vs. the world show.
At least the ilyas flame wars
were usually about politics
or philosophy, and not just
personal insults and OS crap.
\_ That's Mr. Cock Monkey to
you, pal! -pp
\_ OS crap? Dude, this is the
Computer Science
Undergraduate Association!
I'm sure the Philosophy and
Political Science
Undergraduate Assocations
have motd where you can
argue those topics to your
hearts content. If it
really trips you out, you
can delete threads I post
in, but I think that the
other half of the motd
would be upset at the
nukefest. -dans
nukefest. Also, it may be
that my tendency to sign my
posts biases the
observation that leads to
the dan vs. the world
conclusion. -dans
\_ Well, that and the
content....
\_ As mentioned above, ``English, motherfucker, do
you speak it'' is a quote from Pulp Fiction,
which won an Academy Award for best screenplay.
It's not exactly an obscure reference. And it
supports my preceding sentence where I ask what
the pp on that thread didn't grok about the
phrase ``appear to be''. I posted it because it
was a) likely amusing to anyone who got the
reference and b) hammered my point home.
Question, have you ever read anything by
Christopher Hitchens? What do you think of him?
In particular, have you read ``The Missionary
Postion,'' his rather nasty character
assassination of Mother Teresa? What did you
\_ Why is this a "character assassination"?
will agree with this term if you do not
give it a negative stigma, but if half of
what he claimed about her is true, she did
not deserve to be sainted, and he has a
point. Several good articles have been
written about the nasty sides of her and
similar organizations. Now back to your
original flame war. -John
think of it? I don't mean to suggest my
rhetoric is anywhere near the level of
Hitchens'. My only point is that nastiness and
harsh language do not make an argument childish,
and it's childish to believe that they do. -dans
Most other regular posters that bother to sign their
posts, e.g. tom, ilyas, jblack, are such stubborn,
delusional bastards that they will *never* change there
opinions. Or, rather, in seven plus years of reading
and posting to the motd, I've never seen them change an
opinion or admit to being wrong. If you'll dismiss an
argument as a senseless rant purely because it has
\_ as opposed to ad hominems because somebody
uses a term like AssOS
\_ I don't believe that suggesting someone is
biased for using the term AssOS is an ad
hominem. Please cite an ad hominem I used
to refer to psb with. Otherwise, consider
looking up the definition of ad hominem. I
used the term AssholeOS to refer to FreeBSD,
and, given the typical behavior of the
FreeBSD community members, it's as reasonable
a moniker for the OS as AssOS is for Linux.
Thus, it is not an ad hominem. -dans
profanity in it, then you're a fool. This is the motd,
not Forensics, Speech, and Debate club. -dans
motd on a Saturday night, I'm putting the finishing touches on
some code I spent the last month writing, and will put a release
announcement on the motd when it's ready. I read and respond to
the motd while waiting for emacs TRAMP mode to save files since it
lags a bit when writing to soda, which is actually due to a
workaround for a FreeBSD bug. As soon as I finish, I plan to
either cuddle with my girlfriend or go out partying with her and
other friends. -dans
\_ Awsome. So what are you coding?
\_ Hey, have you figured out a way for TRAMP to warn you that the
file has changed before updating it?
\_ TRAMP appears to do this for me. Does it not do this for
you, or is there some sort of bug? The two things I set in
my .emacs to impact TRAMP behavior are:
(setq-default auto-save-timeout 600)
and I set tramp-chunksize to 150, which I did through emacs
graphical customization interface. I suspect something like:
(setq tramp-chunksize 150) would be what you want.
-dans
\_ TRAMP doesn't seem to warn me if the file has changed,
unlike when I'm editing local files. I usually try to
do a revert-buffer and then add my change, but that
isn't a 100% fool proof sol'n.
\_ Strange, I don't have this problem. Hmm, what host are
you working with? What is your shell? I have it
working on soda and several of my own boxes running
Linux. I switched my shell to bash on soda because I
didn't feel like beating my head against a wall trying
to make TRAMP work with tcsh. Hmm... you're trying to
edit the motd, aren't you? I don't use it for that, so
the check if file has changed issue doesn't come up as
often for me. -dans
\_ My remote host is OS X running the dp emacs-devel.
My soda shell is bash. Yes, I'm trying to edit the
motd and I'm trying to play nice.
\_ Sorry, I don't think I'll be of much help. I'm
running a similar environment, but I edit the
motd locally in vi. What if you wrote a script
to copy the motd, and, when you saved your copy,
it would check if the motd had changed. If no,
overwrite the motd, if yes, give you a diff or
something? -dans
\_ Solved my problem: M-x diff-buffer-with-file
works w/ TRAMP. |
| 2006/3/22-25 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42379 Activity:nil |
3/22 To make a long story short... I have NO idea why one of the tables
got corrupted (mysql said "This is marked as 'crash', please repair
this table"). I've run REPAIR TABLE <tables> and now Berkeley MOTD
is working again. Thanks for the quick notification. FYI I've run
Berkeley MOTD for a while and this is the first time something like
this has happened. If you know why and how to fix it please email
me. Thanks guys -kchang
\_ Just curious, why do you bother or care?
\_ someone important asked me to do it.
\_ i'll repair YOUR table
\_ Are you using MyISAM (default) or InnoDB tables? MyISAM tables can
and do corrupt if you hit mysql hard enough. In theory, InnoDB
tables should be immune from this. Obviously switching to a
different RDBMS is not a decision to take lightly, but, as a worst
case scenario, consider switching to postgres, which is definitely
more robust than mysql. -dans |
| 2006/3/20 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42328 Activity:nil |
3/20 If you're going to troll the motd today, please make
that extra effort and at least try to use proper
grammar. I know you like to pretend that you are
an angry immigrant troll who just moved to Berkeley
but I know you had to take the TOEFL before being
admitted so I know you're not a moron. Thank you. |
| 2006/3/16-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42270 Activity:high |
3/16 Can we seed little CSUAs in other universities? Instead of friendly
Irish bartenders, they will need their own toms.
http://www.slate.com/id/2137893
\_ It's normal enough to have sister clubs at different schools.
The problem with the CSUA is that it's basically an obsolete
organization type. No one needs a club to get access to
computing resources anymore.
\_ ... but everyone needs a world-writable MOTD.
\_ BTW, the charter of the CSUA is not about access to computing
resources (that's what the UCF was and the OCF is for). The
CSUA is a social organization for people who care about CS.
\_ seems like people care more about I.T. than real CS here.
Indeed, the CSUA existed for many years without its own
computer(s).
\_ But the glory days of the CSUA were when computing resources
were scarce and real oses scarcer.
\_ Correlation, but hardly causation. You could just as well
say that the glory days of the CSUA were when CS was an
avocation instead of a vocation. And even that would be
wrong, since the CSUA was irrelevant and on the verge of
complete disappearance in 1986.
\_ No, he's sort of right in that it provided a pretty
nifty place to take a break from the labs. -John
\_ Computing resources were still quite scarce in 1986.
\_ The CSUA did not get its own computer till 1988,
I think. The scarcity of computing resources in
1986 did not mean it was the glory days of the
organization.
It's only in the last five to ten years that every new
UCB student started to bring a new computer, and only
the last five that it's been a laptop. It's not that
the CSUA is obsolete, I think that there are some key
ideals and core values that will never be obsolete. I
think the organization needs to reinvent itself for a
new millenium when hardware is cheap, fast, and
abundant while still maintaining those ideals and core
values. -dans
P.S. The CSUA is the second oldest active ASUC student
group on campus. The only active group that predates
us is CHAOS, the Cal Hiking and Outdoors Society.
\_ Hmm, I'd say closer to 10-15 for computers, though
I'd agree with the last 5 for laptops (probably even
less)...though I suspect I've dated myself with this
post.... -mice
\_ Doesn't ANY post to the motd kinda date the
poster?
\_ heh, very funny.
\_ It's not like anyone else would. -John
\_ Heh, I was wondering if someone would hook
into that. Punk. :P -mice
\_ "Straight line"... :-) -John
\_ Elaine has her own ASUC student group? Wow!
\_ ?
\- there is more to that then you think. --psb
\_ Please cite the relevant portions of the CSUA charter that
state it is a social organization. -dans
\_ What is this charter everyone keeps talking about?
BTW, from the constitution:
to provide a forum for the personal interaction of
persons involved in the computer science
\_ The CSUA constitution was written years after the
organization formed, and written because the ASUC
insisted that we have one. That's why our governing
body is called the politburo, it was a way of thumbing
our noses at the ASUC. Presumably, we had a charter
before then. To quote the complete text from the
constitution:
The purposes of this organization are: to represent the
undergraduate computer science student body in dealings
with the University of California at Berkeley, its
representatives, and any other appropriate organization;
to provide a forum for the personal interaction of
persons involved in the computer sciences; to promote
knowledge of and interest in the computer sciences; and
to raise funds to accomplish these goals.
So, yes, we're a social organization, but this is by no
means our only purpose. Providing access to computing
resources falls under promoting knowledge of and
interest in CS, as well as providing a forum for social
interaction. -dans
\_ You quote a very selective history. For at least
a decade, the mantra at meetings was "The CSUA is
_PRIMARILY_ a social organization. We have some
interesting resources for you to play around with,
but we're not here to hold your hand computer-wise"
\_ Please show me documentation of this. It
conflicts with my recollection, which was that we
have interesting resources to play with, but
we're not here to hold your hand computer-wise
because we're curmudgeonly bastards who think you
should figure shit out for yourself. Socializing
had nothing to do with it. I should also note
that the ``we're not here to hold your hand''
attitude is decidedly anti-social. -dans
\_ It's really not even worth discussing this
with you. You've declared yourself arbiter
of the realm. I'm with the majority here.
You've proven yourself obnoxious.
\_ Majority? I must have missed the vote.
I'm sorry if you find my requests for
actual documentation obnoxious, but I'm
genuinely interested in the historical
record of the CSUA and like collection more
data points. -dans
\_ grep -ir social /csua/www/htdocs/Minutes
\_ How about seeding little sodans in other universities instead?
\_ I volunteer to seed undergraduates!
\_ UCLA and UCD both had CSUA's when I was an ug. I wonder if they
are still around? UCLA had a linux club a few years back that
strongly reminded me of the CSUA, but they had no world writable
motd.
\_ My sister is attending Santa Cruz, and was thinking of starting
a CSUA like organization. They have a club for black
engineers, hispaic engineers, women engineers, and IEEE. I
told her she should probably just join the IEEE if she wanted a
club that didn't come with a designation.
club that didn't come with a designation. -jrleek
\_ Who are you? Who is your sister? My girlfriend is attending
Santa Cruz. -dans
\_ It's me, jrleek. My sister is in CS, this is her first
year. -jrleek
\_ Neat. Ask her if she wants to meet my gf, Belen. She's
in her second year, probably majoring in Music, but
flirting with a CS minor. -dans
\_ Are you trying to set up POLYAMORY?
\_ Are you a MORON? -dans
\_ This name and location has been noted. --unstable motd
stalker
\_ What location? I stated the institution she attends
not her location. -tricky dans
\_ School + Music + unusual name... not too hard eh?
Granted, I'm a very lazy stalker. But there may
be less lazy ones. --ums
\_ *probably* majoring in Music. You'd have a
much easier time stalking her through myspace.
-dans |
| 2006/3/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42209 Activity:nil 57%like:42200 |
3/11 Americans full of contradictions, and as stupid as ever:
[URL changed, now deleted, see kais motd]
\_ Stupid? Why? Because a bunch of them don't share your black/white
views on a very complex and highly charged topic? If only the
world was really as simple as you see it....
\_ The OP is not alone. http://www.slate.com/id/2137775
\_ Did you actually read the slate article and compare to what
the OP is saying? They're in different universes from each
other. OP lives in his nice little black'n'white with-me-
or-against-me world, the slate article is all about people
with a variety of subtle and dare I say nuanced opinions.
BTW, thanks for the slate url.
\_ One person in the room raised her hand to say there are
too many abortions in the US. No one else did. Now,
do you think the OP is in the camp of that one hand-raiser
or of everyone else in the room?
\_ Apples. Oranges. What's your point? |
| 2006/3/10-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42171 Activity:nil |
3/10 DISCLAIMER:
Dear current csua students-- the bickering between tom and dans
is NOT representative of current alumni and your future, and
is certainly NOT typical behaviour from typcial alumni. Most
of us have a bit more humour and are much more optimistic,
forgiving, and helpful. Most of us understand that what happened in
the past, is history and no one really give a damn. What's important
is _now_, the present time, because we can do something to make
csua a better organization. You [current students] have our support.
You certainly have my moral support, but don't count on getting
any money from me because I'm a cheapskate alum who can't even
afford a typical house, a 60 year old run down house for $800K in
San Jose or Santa Clara even with my near 6-digit salary so I'm
forced to buy a fucking $600K house out of nowhere north of
Gilroy and suffer traffic every single fucking day. FUCK!! !!!
Oops, I'm only joking. I'm not bitter. Really. Go Cal. BEAT STANFORD!
\_ Thanks a lot for your show of support. Don't worry I realize that
most often the silent minority who agree with policy/direction
can be drowned out by a vocal minority. With recently getting new
soda we are actually ok in regards to the constant need for more
money. It sounds like maybe we should go panhandle for change
to help you out though. :P
I hope you manage to make it to the alumni bbq and can meet some of
the current students. -mrauser, president
Just so you know, its highly unlikely that more than 1-2 current
students ever read the motd (myself included) and thus probably
have no idea that tom and dans are bickering.
\_ Bingo!
\_ 2ded. I personally think that the CSUA is a great student
organization and am proud to be an alum member. I have hired
several CSUA members as interns and full time employees and
will continue to support the CSUA morally and financially.
On a side note, I have been greatly impressed by the dedication
of the recent politburo members (props to jvarga and mrauser)
and hope that the CSUA continues to recruit dedicated ugs.
GO BEAH!
\_ 3ded. |
| 2006/3/9-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42170 Activity:low |
3/7 Look tom and dans. Both of you have points and supporting facts. But
most of us aren't concerned at who's right/wrong. So how about shaking
hands with your enemy for now, and even if the other side is still
unforgiven, at least fake a truce. That way you can attack when the
time is right and we'll have our peace on motd. Thanks
\_ hey I wanted to see where it goes. don't delete it til tomorrow.
Why do you need peace on motd? How boring.
\_ There's a famous novel I read in HS to which I forgot the title
but basically it described a guy truck driver driving on the
highway, saw a turtle on the road, and swerved in order to
crush it. Then a gal driver saw the turtle, swerved in order
to avoid it. So, I guess you're the driver and you're trying
to cause harm in order to get pleasure from it, or something
\- turtle novels: blade runner is the standard but you probably
mean grapes of wrath. you know it just occurred to me, it is
not unlikely i read GoW before you were born. did you read
a certain novel involving a tree and a prep school and
conflict and hate, too? |
| 2006/3/8-10 [Computer/SW/P2P, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42150 Activity:kinda low |
3/8 Dude, chill out dans. Go out to the beach or something, it's really
nice out there.
\_ Dude, I just spent the last week on the beach in Santa Cruz. The
\_ Dude, I just spent the last weak on the beach in Santa Cruz. The
motd is what I do when I'm waiting for code to compile, tests to
run etc. -dans
\_ I suspect you didn't actually spend a week on the beach. Or
were you camping on it?
\_ Okay, let me rephrase, I spent a week in a house that looks
out on the beach. As in literally walk 10 feet across the
street and you're on the beach. -dans
\_ Well, ok then. Good for you. What did you do in SC, coding?
You seem pretty angry on motd for some reason. Anyways, how
does one go about living near the beach for a week? Craigslist?
\_ Spent quality time with my girlfriend, hacked on a project
\_ wait what??? I thought you're gay
I'm really into, caroused with friends, and cooked and ate
lots of tasty, fresh food. In my case, I'm fortunate to be
part of a circle of friends that values sharing our resources
\_ http://www.polyamory.org/SF/poly-folks
\_ Wow. That's a leap. -dans
with each other. A number of us are successful geeks who are
always happy to take in guests. No, I'm not angry. To me,
the motd is like fight club without the stitches. It's a
nice place to spar with written arguments. Sometimes its
informative, and I learn about my fellow CSUAers or change my
point of view. Sometimes it's like beating the crap out of
Jared Leto, i.e. picking apart weak arguments until the other
person gives up and nukes the thread. -dans
\_ You just violated the first two rules of fight club. |
| 2006/3/8-9 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42148 Activity:kinda low |
3/8 Boy, neutering KAIS motd really upped the level of discourse around
here.
\_ Scuse me? Why is it neutered? It's still working.
\_ Hello, I'm the op. I'm still waiting for an answer. It seems
to work. Why did you think it was neutered? By the way it is
now called "Berkeley MOTD." Even Google recognizes Berkeley MOTD. |
| 2006/3/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:42140 Activity:moderate |
3/8 Poll, stupid political drivels make the motd:
more interesting: .....
stupid: ..
\_ This poll question has an inherent bias!
\_ What would the motd be w/o drivel?
\_ more linux vs. freebsd drivels? vi vs. emacs drivels?
I'll take technical drivels over pointless political ones any day |
| 2006/3/7-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42132 Activity:high |
3/7 Isn't it squishable to use something like fold to modify motd?
\_ maybe. who is doing it?
\_ Yes, but no one cares anymore.
\_ No. It's theoretically squishable to have something automatically
modifying the MOTD every three minutes via fold or some other
method, but ever since paolo did it, it seems anything goes. -tom
\- What if you are an obsessive compulsary guy like me who checks
the motd every 5 minutes _manually_ and do repeated things to
motd _manually_? How do you distinguish between changes done
via a script that keeps calling fold or just someone like me?
Is it squishable because of one's ultimate intent to motd
regardless of actual changes, or is it squishable only when
the actual changes are made repeatedly, regardless of method?
\_ The only cases I know of where someone was squished for
modifying the MOTD were when it was being done automatically.
Being an idiot is not the same as being a hoser. -tom
Being an idiot is not the same as being a hoser. For example
I am an idiot and marco was a hoser. -tom
\_ The horse is dead tom. Please stop beating it. -dans
PS, I'm a little dubious of your standing to bitch about CSUA
policy since you've done so since before I got to Berkeley in
'97, and continued to do so until I finished in '04, and, to my
knowledge, you never once showed up at a politburo meeting. I'm
under the impression that you work on the Berkeley campus so
it's not like you have distance as an excuse.
\_ I've been to general meetings during that time frame.
I think the current undergraduates really should be in
charge of setting policy and direction for the CSUA, but
I also think that it's inappropriate and inexcusable for a
CSUA officer to intentionally and deceptively screw up a
public CSUA resource. -tom
\_ Fair enough. Even so, I can say your knowledge of the
so-called paolo motd squishing incident is incomplete.
There are facts you don't have that were discussed by the
then current undergraduate members of the politburo in
closed session, and a policy decision was made based on
those facts. Thus, in this case, your hard line stance on
the issue is in conflict with your statement that
undergrads should set policy and direction. Seriously
though, it's been for years. Don't you think it's time to
move on? -dans
\_ Don't you think the politburo should have responded
to the person who brought the complaint? I never
heard a single word. And I can't imagine what facts
there could be which would mitigate the situation
enough that the CSUA President would not have to at
least admit wrongdoing and apologize--unless you
believed paolo's total BS about how his process really
was pine and it was checking mail every three minutes.
Closed politburo session for disciplining a politburo
member is also total BS. -tom
\_ It would mitigate the situation if the President's
apparently anti-social act that stomped on your
playground actually benefited the greater good of
the CSUA. If the University was pressuring the CS
department to shut off the CSUA's net taps
*permanently* in response to complaints that the
motd was in gross violations of campus hate
speech/fighting words statutes, then nuking the
motd would benefit this greater good. I phrase
this as a hypothetical because I can't disclose
specifics on the record without betraying the
confidence of the politburo members at that time.
Refer to question #18 in link:csua.org/u/f69 for
more info re: campus hate speech regs (sorry, it's a
PDF). And, also hypothetically, perhaps the
politburo didn't respond to the person who raised
the complaint because they felt that the individual's
language and attitude was abusive and demanding, and
they felt disinclined to interact with such an
individual? If said individual raised his/her
complaint in person at a politburo meeting with the
same language and attitude, I suspect the politburo
would have told him to `Fuck off' in so many words.
As is, they let sleeping dogs lie. You can state
that ``Closed politburo session for disciplining a
politburo member is also total BS,'' but that's your
opinion. The undergraduates on the politburo made a
policy decision regarding how they wanted to handle
the matter. If you truly believe that current
undergraduates should set policy and direction, you
don't get to pick and choose which policy decisions
they do and don't make. -dans
\_ chmod 644 /etc/motd.public is how I would solve
that problem. No need to run a script to wipe
motd. -mrauser
\_ oh that's a load of crap and you know it. paolo
was deleting the MOTD because people were taking
out his postings of kinneydrivel. If he were
doing it for the greater good of the CSUA, why
did he name his process "pine" and lie about
what it did? We're not talking about the
MOTD nazi'ing after 9/11, we're talking about
while (1) sleep 180 ; cp /dev/null /etc/motd.public
And I do think the undergraduates should be
allowed to set policy; do you think that if I
put the above in a script, called it "pine",
and ran it myself, that that would be OK and
within CSUA policy? What a crock. -tom
\_ I agree that Paolo's implementation left much
to be desired, but that's neither here nor
there. And yes, if nuking the motd kept us
from getting our net tap shut off, while it
wouldn't be OK, I'd sincerely hope that it
would be forgiven. At this point the dispute
is who's facts are correct. Yours run counter
to my recollection, but I doubt I'm going to
convince you my memory is better than yours
or vice versa. But that still begs the
question, why are you beating a horse that's
been dead for four years? -dans
\_ The facts that paolo *claimed at
the time* were that he was "running
tests using screen to have it run
pine in the background and
auto-reattach itself to my
soda-shell whenever i got new mail" (his
words). Apparently, when it became obvious
that this was 100% bullshit, he told the
politburo that he was on a SOOPER SEKRIT
MISSION to SAVE THE CSUA from the EVIL
LORD MULLALLY. And apparently he
succeeded in his mission, despite only
deleting the MOTD for about three
hours on one occasion and never running his
script again (at least not automatically).
What an effective leader he was! I
bring it up because I am still dumbfounded,
not only that he did it in the first place,
but that his credulous cronies let him
get away with it. Maybe you believed his
bullshit--that would just make you a
stooge and a tool. Paolo, on the other
hand, was a scumbag. -tom
\_ Excuse me? Have you ever sat down
and had a beer with me? Or Paolo?
Paolo is a good guy and a good friend
who's there when he's needed. I can
attest to this as will many others.
Back when he was on politburo, he worked
his ass for the CSUA. So did I. You,
on the other hand are a faceless bitter
dour naysayer alumni who sees fit
to bitch and moan about `those kids
these days,' but, in my seven years
kicking around Berkeley, I never once
saw you lift a finger for this
organization. You seem to believe that
\_ Excuse me? Have you ever sat down and
had a beer with Paolo? Or me? I know
he busted his ass for the CSUA when he
was on politburo. So did I. You on the
other hand seem to be a bitter dour
naysayer alumnus who loves to bitch
about ``those damned kids these days,''
but, in the seven years I was active in
the CSUA, I never once saw you lift a
finger for this organization. Basically,
you're a parasite. You seem to think
the motd is your personal playground,
You think Paolo pissed on it once four
years ago, and, like a child or a
fanatic, you latch onto this tiny
perceived slight, blow it way out of
proportion, and refuse to move on or let
go. Somehow, in the haze of your ongoing
childish tantrum, you concluded that
people you barely or never interacted
with are, in your words, scumbags,
stooges, and tools. My first impulse is
to revert to your level and call you a
wanker, but, on further reflection, I'm
simply speechless. -dans
and you believe Paolo pissed on it.
Like a child or a fanatic, your response
to this tiny perceived slight is to blow
it completely out of proportion: You
hold a grudge over the matter that's
lasted four years (and counting). On
the basis of incomplete information
about a single event, you just labeled
a bunch of people you've barely or never
interacted with as stooges, tools, and
scumbags. I'm tempted to drop to your
level and call you a wanker, but,
frankly, I'm just speechless. -dans
\_ Way to change the subject! First of
all, I am quite confident that I
have both done more work for the CSUA
and donated more money to the CSUA
than either of you. Second, how
much work any of us have done for
the CSUA is completely irrelevant
to whether paolo's actions were
inappropriate. And it's not just
that he munged the MOTD; it's that
he threatened me with lawsuits and
police action when I reported it.
That's appropriate behavior for
an officer of an organization? -tom
\_ I'm not changing the subject. You
called me a tool and a stooge. I
can live with that. But you also
slapped that label (and scumbag)
on several of my friends,
something I am considerably less
inclined to tolerate. This is the
first time you've brought up
threats of lawsuits and police
action. I know in your world you
want us all to bow down and lick
your asshole when you champion
your righteous views, but a) you
refuse to allow for the fact that
you may be wrong and b) we live in
a civil society where the police
and the courts exist to adjudicate
disputes between parties. You
have a right to raise complaints.
But if you harrass people to make
your complaints heard, or your
complaints are slanderous or
libelous, then the wronged parties
have a right to seek legal
recourse. If Paolo legitimately
felt you wronged him, then it is
reasonable and appropriate for him
to seek remedy from the police or
the courts. -dans
\_ except he was 100% full of
shit, which is why he
apparently came up with a
totally new story in the
SOOPER SEKRIT POLITBURO
MEETING where, surprise,
his friends decided not to
do anything to him. -tom
\_ I am ready to fight you Tom.
Are you a coward? -dans
\_ GUN DUEL!!
\_ I did not write this.
-dans
\_ So you are scared to
fight tom too? It is
too bad for the
CSUA you both lack
physical courage.
\_ Look tom, if it was such an
important issue, and you
believe so strongly in your
conviction that Paolo is a
liar and a `scumbag,' you
could have escalated your
complaint to the ASUC, the
CS department, or the
University level. You chose
not to do that. Instead,
you vent on the motd with
cheap shots and low blows at
the parties involved four
years after the fact. This
is just sour grapes over the
fact that the politburo
decided that you were wrong,
and your complaint lacked
merit. Apparently you don't
like to be reminded that
you're not omnipotent, and
sometimes this leads to
incorrect conclusions. -dans
\_ I didn't vent on the MOTD.
I reported it to the
politburo, courteously
and with details. The
\_ And then proceeded to
vent about it on the
motd for the next four
years (and counting!)
when the politburo
decided, based on
findings of fact that
your complaint was
without merit. -dans
politburo ignored me
except for paolo's
reply where he lied about
what he was doing,
claimed he was placing
a restraining order
against me, and blamed
me for making soda
"not a place for
undergraduates."
(Ignoring, of course,
the fact that he was the
one trashing the
resource). The act
itself was not that
big a deal, and it
would have been a
disservice to the CSUA
to try to bring it to
a higher authority.
However, paolo is still
a scumbag and you're
still a tool. -tom
\_ I am thankful I don't
see the world through
your eyes. -dans
\_ The bottom line here is paolo was
your friend and anything he did
was fine.
\_ No. I choose my friends
because they behave like
honorable human beings I can
respect. I can't be friends
with someone I don't respect.
If he did something genuinely
reprehensible, he wouldn't be
my friend anymore. -dans
\_ It wasn't "reprehensible";
I mean, he didn't murder
anyone or steal etc. What
he did do was break a CSUA
policy that others have
been disciplined for, and
lied about it. I mean, you
\_ To my knowledge, he did
not lie about it. Tom
accuses him of lying
about it, but, as this
thread shows, Tom lives
in a reality distortion
field so I am
disinclined to believe
Tom's accusation. Honor
and honesty are very
important to me, and
while I don't view them
purely in black and
white, I would end a
friendship over them
-dans
\_ So, do you believe
the following?
1. I have been and was running tests using screen to have it run pine
in the background and auto-reattach itself to my soda-shell whenever i got
new mail (think of it as biff++). I have been running these test for
several days now.
I have been checking my screen sessions on soda and the programs I've
been running are not only nice'd, but go to sleep awaiting a timer
call. I'm using soda because some of my mail goes to soda.
...
For this i am contacting the OSC and the Berkeley PD about restraining
orders placed against Mr. Holub.
The first two
paragraphs don't
jibe at all with
what you claim
happened at the
SOOPER SEKRIT
politburo meeting.
And I seriously
doubt he ever
contact OSC or
contacted OSC or
the Berkeley PD.
-tom
--------------------------------------------------/
\_ Did Paolo cc anyone, e.g. the politburo on that mail? That is, if
Paolo sent the out of context email excerpt you posted, and the
statements therein are untrue, did he lie to you, or did he lie to
both you *and* the politburo? I'm willing to believe he sent the
email you are excerpting, I don't think your reality distortion
field is so warped that you would fabricate old emails. Did it
ever occur to you that his purpose was to get you off his back?
If he lied to you, then it was bad form and a poor way to
accomplish that end. But, apparently, it succeeded. You might
feel you deserve an apology. That said, however, you make a
pattern of being rude, belligerent, and nasty in your electronic
communications, as evinced by your behavior on the motd. Oddly
enough, this is something you and I share. The difference is that
when someone responds to my nastiness by ignoring me or telling me
to fuck off in so many words, I accept the consequences. You, on
the other hand, demand an apology, and declare a lifelong (four
years, and counting!) vendetta against the party in question. -dans
\_ That was his response to my mail to root. He cc:ed root,
twohey, ajani, galen, and chialea. He made similar claims on
\_ Let's apply Occam's razor here. Which of the following is
more plausible:
a) Paolo is privately a degenerate scumbag, but his public
face is that of a brilliant social engineer who counts the
following people in his thrall of tools and stooges:
- twohey, ajani, galen, and chialea
- all root staff members
- all politburo members
- everyone reading wall during the time period in question
b) You really weren't privy to all the details, and thus
your self-righteous black and white assessment is wrong.
-dans
<<<<<<< /home/sgi/dcs/tms
\_ This is great. If paolo sent it just to me, he was
just trying to get me to go away, but if he sent it
to lots of people, he must have been telling the
truth. How's this for a possibility: the politburo
was a bunch of paolo's friends, who didn't want to
do the right thing (turn off his account and remove him
as President), so they decided in "closed session"
(so no one else ever knew what happened) to let it slide.
Sounds pretty ontologically parsimonious to me. -tom
\_ tom, do you need a hug? Maybe a nice puppy or a kitty
cat for your apartment? -dans
\_ How can you count 'everyone reading wall...'?
\_ As tom has made abundantly clear, if you're not
with tom, your against tom. Since those reading wall
did not rush to tom's defense and aide, they must be
part of Paolo's vast scumbag conspiracy of tools and
stooges. -dans
Also, another possibility is that those 'tools and stooges'
in actuality chose to just let it slide, for whatever
reason, since that's the easiest thing to do, and they
probably had no idea what really happened and don't
care much either way about the incident.
=======
\_ You are a black bugger. -tom
>>>>>>> /etc/motd.public
\_ Sounds plausible to me. It also explains why, unlike
tom, they're not still bitching about it after the
fact. -dans
wall. The issue has *nothing to do* with my online personality;
\_ Do you have an
different online
personality
because you are
worried about
getting beaten up
in real life?
\_ He does run
away when
someone makes
physical
threats on the
motd.
\_ you know,
psb, a
twerp like
you really
should
stay away
from
talking
about
physical
conflict.
-tom
it has to to with paolo trying to come up with a plausible story
to dupe the credulous. He failed the first time, so apparently
he came up with a totally different story, completely
inconsistent with his first one, to tell at the politburo
meeting. (By the way, the MOTD that day was
http://www.csua.com/2001/07/11;
nothing remotely resembling hate speech). -tom
know, whatever, but there
it is. Your politburo chose
to ignore that. That thing
had nothing to do with hate
speech (that was the 9/11
motd shutdown). I don't
think that this incident
would be enough to break a
friendship over. But it
is quite plain that there
was dishonesty there; can't
you at least admit that it
was a wrong thing to do
especially for an officer?
Anyway I don't really care
and nobody else really does
either but it remains an
item of precedent that tom
was perfectly justified in
pointing out at the top of
this thread. All the rest
of this thread is your
indignant lashing back.
Anyway I don't have
anything against y'all I
just think it's funny.
\_ "hard line stance"? Seriously.. You (by which I mean
the last 5 years or so of politburo) only use terms like
this because of an inflated sense of importance. I think
it's time politburo stops whining about outdated
criticism.
\_ Um, dude, I'm making an argument. I use language
appropriate for the discussion. Sense of importance
has nothing to do with it. I think it's time that
bitter dour naysayer alumni stop whining about four
year old slights. -dans
\_ For posterity, what were those facts? -!tom
\_ The hypothetical I describe is pretty damn close. I
can't disclose specifics without violating others'
trust. Yes, it's lame, but it's also how it fell
out. -dans
\_ trust him, he's only wiretapping bad guys. -tom
\_ I agree it's fucked. But I also gave my word.
Look tom, I've been way more active in this
organization in the last seven years than you
have. Is there a reason your word should
carry more weight than mine? -dans
\_ That makes absolutely no sense. Do you actually
believe that?
\_ If someone asks for my opinion on a matter in
confidence, I give it, in confidence. I don't
put a statue of limitations on that. I value
my word. -dans
\_ I was referring to the hate speech theory of
why noble paolo was auto-wiping the motd.
\_ Berkeley has pretty strong fighting
words/hate speech policies, and they
were *really* on the warpath in the
weeks following 9/11. -dans
\_ yes, nice theory, only problem
is, this was two months before
9/11. Oh, and when confronted
with the evidence, paolo didn't
say anything about hate speech,
and there wasn't any hate speech
in the MOTD that day. Unless
you count kinneydrivel. -tom
\_ Tom was scared after some geeks threated to physically
assault him.
\_ That's moderately amusing, but my point is a serious one.
-dans
\_ Us old farts do this for a while, then we transcend Politburo
meetings for a higher plane of consciousness. You too will
realize this when you graduate to old fartness, young
padawan. -John
\_ John, you live in Europe. I can understand if you don't
make it to a single politburo meeting in seven years. Me,
I don't want to transcend to a plane where I bitch about
things, but make no genuine effort to alter objective
reality. -dans
\_ Earth to dans. Earth to dans. You already do that.
\_ As if you have any standing to judge. Please keep
believing that. Social, political, and economic
systems share at least one thing with computers:
they're easier to hack without someone looking over
your shoulder. -dans
\_ We're alumni. We don't have to go to meetings anymore.
We've earned the right to bitch from the sidelines no
matter where you are. Hey, it's the undergrads'
organization, we have no business showing up :-) -John |
| 2006/3/4-6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42099 Activity:moderate |
3/4 Woohoo!
soda [3] wc /etc/motd
838 7249 46554 /etc/motd
\_ I think it's time for everyone to like, go outside now.
\_ what? and be left for dead after getting hit by a car and
id'd using my iPod information? |
| 2006/3/3-6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:42086 Activity:high |
3/3 Has the CSUA considered asking alumni to ccme back and give talks about
the cool stuff they are doing? I'm thinking of bz (Cyan), maybe aubie
(Pixar)... I'm sure there are plenty of others I'm forgetting (no
offense intended). Twohey, lea, myself and others could talk about
grad school. Brg could too, but I don't know if you would want that.
I bet mconst could put on some kind of freaky variety show (he'll
solve an open math problem, patch a critical kernel bug, then kick
your ass at any video game in existence). There are distance issues
involved for some folks, but if they were asked (well, if I was asked)
I bet people would make an effort. I think this could be a huge draw,
and take advantage of one of the CSUA's core strengths. I'll leave
you with the opening to a talk I was writing for UCB undergrads about
going to grad school:
"This talk is either going to suck donkey balls, or rock you like an
exam written by Hilfinger _and_ Garcia. And I just came from the
Super-DC, where they are FRESH OUT OF DONKEY BALLS. As Yoda says,
there is no try, only do."
-jhs
\_ I brought in a guy from work to talk about election security.
It was a facinating talk, but, of course, almost no one showed
up. -jrleek
\_ There hasn't ever been anything resembling serious election
security in this country. Probably not in most others either.
\_ Umm, no duh? So we can't have a talk on it? -jrleek
\_ Of course, but it's such an obscure topic for most
\- vertex algebras is an obscure topic.
election security is hardly obscure.
people, especially the politically unaware freshmen
that I'm not surprised it wasn't well attended. Do you
think most people are aware elections have been rigged
since forever? Most people don't even vote so why would
they care if an election is manipulated or not?
\_ Well, this was primarily about electronic voting.
\_ Erm, isn't that sort of part of the purpose of a
university, to expose you to obscure topics? -John
\_ No. You're supposed to get a 'higher education'
which isn't necessarily the same thing. Anyway,
even if it was the point, attending a side lecture
or talk like this, no matter how interesting or
educational, is still voluntary. How many times
were you in class when a prof went off on some side
topic and someone asked, "will this be on the exam?"
Thus, few people attended something that may have
been quite interesting and educational. It wasn't
on the midterm.
\_ Of course it's voluntary. But let's face it,
you could, theoretically, learn all the crap you
get from a university from books. I don't know
about you, but the most valuable thing I got
out of Cal was the sum total of exposure to ideas
and people that I would not otherwise have had
access to. I think "will this be on the exam" is
one of the saddest questions imaginable. -John
\_ Of course it is. However Cal probably isn't
the best choice for people looking for a
classical liberal arts education. After the
various admissions and self filtering that
goes on to create a freshman class, plus
the environment once you get here there isn't
a lot of room for that sort of thing. Thus,
you get a high percentage of people who won't
attend what was probably an interesting, yet
entirely voluntary/no credit talk.
\_ Why not? I don't know about nowadays, but
course catalog when I attended (92-96, to
be honest) was jam packed with interesting,
esoteric stuff. I had a lot of amazing
profs _and_ good TAs, as well as contact
with some really funky, smart people who
enjoyed attending "interesting", voluntary
talks. Same university? -John
\_ You're either smart and cynical or just plain
dumb. It makes me glad I devoted time and effort
to fucking with your kind when they were my peers
in classes or students in classes I TAed. -dans
\_ Ok since you can't even figure out what "kind"
I am.... I'm just glad I was here today to
give you the opportunity to post how smart
you are and how you abused other people in
class. Whatever. I don't know what button
of yours I hit with my harmless reply to John,
but your response is... interesting.
\_ This isn't about smart or dumb. It's about
your assertion that the purpose of attending
university is to get a `higher education'
(whatever that means), a view that I hold
to be either cynical and shortsighted or
outright stupid. Individuals who approach
university classrooms with your attitude
water down the university experience for
everyone. Every time some selfish or
stupid twit asks ``Will this be on the
midterm,'' it takes away from class time
that could be spent *gasp* learning. Thus,
I view it as a duty to encourage others to
move away from a fundamentally parasitic and
harmful attitude toward the university
experience, if necessary, by beating it out
of them. Cheers. -dans
\_ Unfortunately you didn't do as well in
reading comp as you did in nastiness
and self righteousness. Go re-read and
try again.
\_ Unfortunately your composition skills,
appear grossly inferior to your
apparent selfishness and
defensiveness. In particular, your
capacity to clearly express your
views deserves as C+ at best. Back to
English 1A with you. It saddens me
that you think it is nasty when people
call attention to the, in this case
ugly, truth of your words. -dans
\_ *laugh* "I know you are but what
am I?" You're so funny.
\_ I'm someone who has the
conviction to sign my name and
stand behind my words. Who are
you? -dans
\_ I don't play that game. You
can deal with what I say,
who I am is not important.
If you can't deal, don't.
I don't care and didn't ask
you to throw your over
wrought spew on the thread
in the first place. You
chose to join a thread and
respond to an anonymous
person. No one forced you.
\_ Eh. -dans
\_ You say I don't understand
what you wrote. I say
you're backpedalling
because your words
express a cynical and
selfish attitude, and I
called you on it. We
can't both be right.
Personally, I throw my
hat in with the guy who
signs hist name, but I'm
biased. -dans
\_ You're an idiot. -gwb
\_ No, Mr. President,
what you meant to
say was ``Fuck
off'' -rbc
\_ I'll explain slowly for
you: I have no reason
to backpedal anything.
I'm somewhat anonymous,
this is only the motd,
\_ If it's ``only the
motd,'' why do you
care so much about
your anonymity? -dans
\_ Meow!
any intelligent person
who reads English can
understand what I said,
\_ I disagree with this
assertion. -dans
\_ MeOW!
I never took back a
single word of it, and
\_ I disagree with this
assertion. -dans
\_ meOW!
signing your name only
means you like seeing
your name in lights.
\_ If you believe this
ridiculous idea, it
directly contradicts
your statement that
``it's only the
motd.'' -dans
\_ mEOw!
I wouldn't take the
signed over the
unsigned. I would
actually read what
two people actually
said and decide from
that alone who was
correct and to what
degree. Their name
status carries no
weight. Again, you
\_ Your arguments in
this thread are,
imprecise, sloppily
worded, and, based
on some readings,
logically flawed.
You use the resulting
lack of clarity as an
excuse to justify
backpedalling, and
then assert that
``any intelligent
person who reads
English can
understand what
[you] said.''
\_ MeOw!
voluntarily responded
to an anon person. Why
bother if you
automatically dismiss
them on that basic
\_ [sic]
\_ MEOW!
alone?
\_ Heh. I *broke* the ASUC election system the first year it
was computerized. As in I produced a demonstrably working
exploit. I then took my findings to the elections chair and
worked with him to secure against my exploit and other
avenues of attack. I spoke about this at DefCon and
Computers Freedom and Privacy in 2004. The following year
the election technical lead didn't test the old code until
the eve of the elections, and I led the team that wrote a
superior replacement in under 8 hours. If you include time
to recruit the team members, it took approx. 12 hours from
start to rollout. Last I checked, this code was still in
use, albeit with some modifications by OCF members. If folks
\_ Oh shit. --team member
would like, I'd be happy to do a talk on this. If you time
it at the beginning of the ASUC election campaign season and
flyer on south side, it would probably be a great way to
bring in more members that don't have traditional computing
backgrounds. If current CSUA members want to see this
happen, email me. -dans
\_ I probably would have attended. I think what you need to do
is get people excited somehow, and then make sure that the
talk delivers (see, for example, the series of talks by
Brewer, Karp, etc, last year). The CSUA needs positive buzz.
In my mind this means more than flyering - it means people
going into classes and being _enthusiastic_ about what they
are selling. Does current pburo have the mental energy to
pull this off? Not meant as offensive. Also, as alumni,
I could be wrong, full of shit, or both.
-jhs |
| 2006/3/1-4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42048 Activity:moderate |
3/1 csua minutes: "Difficulty in recruitment:
Right now our recruitment is in severe decline, what can we do to get
people more interested in what we are doing. Infosessions will help,
but will be slow to develope. This will be an open-ended discussion
of things we can do to boost membership and more specifically
active/interested membership."
\_ Advice. Leave infosession to UCSEE and SWE that have traditionally
dominated this area for the last two decades. You guys are
stepping into dangerous territory and this turf war really
sucks. Leave infosessions alone, bastards. If you seriously want
to get more members, find a niche market, not something that
steals from other established organisations. Do something new
and innovative, like asking karen to do a bikini car wash drive.
Hell, we'd pay for that. -anon ucsee rep
\_ I don't even know what UCSEE stands for, and I want to have
an infosession right now just to piss you off. What a jackass
attitude.
\_ Uh, CSUA has been doing help sessions on stuff for quite a while.
What's the difference between "infosessions" and "help sessions"?
\_ i think one has students teaching unix shells and the other
has visitors from PIXR
\_ UCSEE and SWE have traditionally dominated Infosessions for the
last two decades? Bullshit. You're engaging in some pretty
gross revision of history. First off I *know* that UCSEE and
SWE (did they used to be AWICSEE, or is that a different society
for women engineering group? Didn't AWICSEE's membership top
out at like 6 people back in 2002?) had basically no physical
presence in Soda Hall prior to 2005. I find it highly unlikely
that there's been a sea change in the last two years. HKN,
which does have a presence in Soda, always did a fair number of
Infosessions, but it's usually hurting for original thinkers,
and thus shamelessly rips off every good one the CSUA has (nb
movies in 306 Soda--paolo, CSUA president circa 1999, startup
jobs fair in the ASUC ballrom, i.e. a massive
meta-infosession--jones, president circa 1998, I can go on...).
UPE also used to have a hand in the Infosession game, but went
into hibernation due to lack of interest circa 2004, has it
reawakened? The CSUA charter is to serve all students with an
interest in computer science, and this is simply not true for
UCSEE (only EECS students in COE, and arguably only those with
an EE focus) or SWE (only Women in COE). Furthermore, the CSUA
provides services to the community that UCSEE and SWE don't
including Help Sessions and Mentoring, and, in the past,
received less money from the EECS department than either UCSEE
or SWE. So let me get this straight. The CSUA serves a wider
audience and provides more community services than UCSEE and SWE
*combined*, but it should leave infosessions, which are
conveniently the most profitable `service' a CS student group
may offer to UCSEE and SWE. Hogwash. Nonsense. Shite. You
don't like that the CSUA is reigning in on `your' turf? Try
matching the CSUA's services then you can talk.
All that said, the groups don't necessarily need to fight over
this. The infosession landscape has at least one large,
unfulfilled niche, which are smaller and/or startup companies
that don't have the money to go through COE's industrial
partnership program (the precise name escapes me). The CSUA can
and should bring these companies to campus. Officially, they
can't do `recruiting' events in Soda Hall, but there are plenty
of worthwhile InfoSessions that are not de jure recruiting
All that said, the groups don't necessarily need to fight over
this. The infosession landscape has at least one large,
unfulfilled niche, which are smaller and/or startup companies
that don't have the money to go through COE's industrial
partnership program (the precise name escapes me). The CSUA can
and should bring these companies to campus. Officially, they
can't do `recruiting' events in Soda Hall, but there are plenty
of worthwhile InfoSessions that are not de jure recruiting
events, but serve the same purpose. I did this with VMWare back
when they were small and Zero Knowledge Systems (may it rest in
peace) among others when I was CSUA president. P.S. Sign your
name instead of making thinly veiled, weak anonymous threats.
-dans
\_ Gee, I wondered why dans knew so much about meth.
\_ Gee, I wonder why the preceding passage would do anything
to dispell your wonder? Have you read any of the minutes
I took for the CSUA? -dans
\_ ucsee must be destroyed!
\_ Interesting. So what will happen to all us cranky alumni when five
or six selfless individuals cannot be scrounged up to cater to our
every whim? What will we do without wall, motd, and email spools
filled with 99.99% spam?!
\_ We could start a fight club.
\_ Why would anyone want to endure pain and medical bills?
Make it a Counter-Strike fight club.
\_ Every anti-social nerd dies. Not every anti-social nerd
really lives.
\_ Does the CSUA still do a lot of social activities (BBQs, RISK
tourneys, volleyball, etc.?) Maybe asking if any CS profs will
let you announce that sort of thing after lectures might help. -John
\_ CSUA used to be fun in the early 90s. From reading the minutes
however, it seems like people there have gotten a lot more
serious. They're trying to do mentoring, help sessions, info
sessions, and other serious events that many other organizations
(like UCSEE) have been doing long before CSUA started doing the
same thing just recently (recent as in past 5 years?). I don't
know why this is the case. I suspect it is probably
the same reason why there are fewer war protests and
peace activists on Telegraph and Sproul Hall today than a
few decades ago.
\_ Speaking of which, I found Rick Starr. He now performs (but
mostly just begs for change) in front of the 20th St. exit
of 19th St. Oakland BART. His outfits are now significantly
on the side of bizarre and tattered, rather than just
tattered, and he seems to have lost significant spark. Poor
Rick Starr.
\_ I was wondering about this--I guess it's partly due to a
mixture of people getting into CS for $$$ in the late 90s,
more competitiveness and lower wages in the industry, and
the decline of the labs as people got PCs in dorms and
apartments. -John
\_ The CSUA has been doing serious events like help sessions
since antiquity. Although other organizations offer
tutoring, no other organization offers anything like the
mentoring program. While the CSUA may have been light on
infosessions prior to 1998, its history of corporate outreach
goes way back. Soda Mark VI was donated by AMD. If you look
\_ Through no fault of the CSUA's. A UCB alum was working in
developer relations at AMD and offered MKVI to the CSUA.
in the circa 1990 CSUA t-shirt in the office you'll see an
EDS logo in the lower-right corner. Do you think it got
there because the CSUA membership at the time just really dug
EDS? Going all the way back to the birth of the CSUA, Soda
Mark I was a donated by Apollo Computer. What other
`serious' events have other student orgs done since before
2000? The faculty retreat? I know we've been involved with
that since 1998, probably earlier, and I largely wrote the
joint presentation for two years (2001-2002?) -dans
\_ I have a question. What actions currently seem to bring people
into the CSUA? I joined the CSUA because there was an arcade
game in the lounge and I wanted to fiddle with it. I stuck
around because I like crazy people, and paolo and dans were
there. I don't think I am normal. None of my mentees joined.
In fact, I think the only person I ever successful recruited
was ajaffe. So, why do people join? -jrleek
\_ Easy. Someone told me you can get a free lifetime Berkeley
account, so I went and signed up. I still use it. It's
great to have that "berkeley.edu" stamp on the top of
your resume, it says a lot and catches attention at a glance.
\_ What is the mentee -> active member conversion rate anyway? I
joined because paolo showed me the glory that was the CSUA
lounge when we were both taking 61B, and I was thus able to
escape the pits that are the labs. I also had hopes that I
could find and/or recruit others to hack on projects, but, for
the most part, this did not pan out. -dans
\_ For 3.5 years I knew the CSUA existed, but didn't really
know anyone in it, what they did, why they were there, etc.
Then Paolo brought Mortal Kombat 2 into the office in an
attempt to get his TA to spend more time there, and it
worked swimmingly. Once I hung out there a lot and got to
know the people, joining seemed like a good idea. You
need to get people in there in the first place,
in a setting where they can meet people, and that's going
to happen with social events like BBQs, volleyball, and
game tourneys. Heck, a weekly poker game might draw a
crowd. -bz
\_ I had just arrived on campus and called a high school friend. He
happened to have root and gave me an account over the phone. It's
been my primary account for 13 years. I've never taken a single
computer science course. I have occasionally been an motd
annoyance. I'm not sure which better qualifies for CSUA
membership. People are welcome to email me about engineering
hydraulics, though. -- ulysses
\_ I definitely got involved with the CSUA because the people
involved in it seemed a lot more interesting and fun than the
drones huddled in the labs. It might have also had something
to do with (president at the time) Seano, who I believe just
wanted someone around that he could beat at Netrek. --lye
\_ On mentoring, how is it currently advertised? Just flyers?
Could we get into the normal CS student orientations? When I
joined the CSUA was helping out with the transfer student
orientations. Could we get into those? (Transfer
students generally need all the help they can get.) -jrleek |
| 2006/2/28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42033 Activity:kinda low |
2/28 Wow, motd is extra snarky today, isn't it?
\_ Just doing my part to make the motd a more interesting place to
visit. -dans
\_ Dan, do you need a hug? --erikred
\_ Everyone loves hugs. They make people feel special. -dans
\_ I'd think that's highly dependant on who's doing the
hugging. -mice |
| 2006/2/28-3/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42029 Activity:low |
2/28 It switched again. Lines from old and new motds:
< FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE (MKVII) #0: Fri Dec 17 17:40:05 UTC 2004
---
> FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE (SODA-MINIMAL) #0: Fri Dec 17 17:40:05 UTC 2004
Although uname says we're still on soda-minimal.
\_ I think there was a power failure. Blame god.
\_ Where can we see a record of the reboots and such?
\_ man last
\_ Bwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahaIamnotanassholeahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahaIamsoanassholeahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
I'm sorry. Did you say something? I was just struck by the
uncontrollable urge to laugh at absurdity. -dans
\_ Wow, you're an ass.
\_ A fucking ignorant ass, no less.
\_ No, the notion that the csua would keep records, ahem a
log, if you will, of system administration tasks above
and beyond what the system does automagically really is
laughable to anyone who spent enough time around the
csua to be even remotely familiar with its history and
culture. So is the idea that requests for basic unix
information on the motd will be dignified with a
helpful response. Though it does make me feel warm and
fuzzy that I can make anonymous cowards resort to
profanity in their ad hominem attacks. -dans
\_ So, given the choice between uselessly mouthing off,
providing an answer to a technical question, or
staying silent and not adding to the noise, you chose
to be a rude and useless jerk. Nice. At least tom
actually seems to have (and give) clue. BTW, I don't
\_ tom_jerk > tom_clue
\_ heh
know which motd you've been reading, but I've seen
*a lot* of n00b questions get answered here without
empty sanctimoniuous snarkiness.
--does the ad hominem thing when PP's being a jerk
\_ When did we slip into your reality? Why am I
typing with tentacles? Where's that japanese
school girl?
Letting the days go by...
\_ Uhm, yeahhh.... Speaking of people with
reality issues....in my reality the *Japanese
schoolgirls* are the ones with the tentacles.
*sheesh* kids these days....
\_ You call it noise. I call it humor. If you read
the motd regularly, then you'd know that I
provide helpful answers as well as deserved and
undeserved snarkiness. In fact, I've got at
least two helpful responses in this motd alone
(see apache2 and sendmail threads). Frankly, I
find your whole anonymous motd behaviorial critic
schtick to be pretty pathetic. If it's so
important to you, at least have the courage to
sign your posts; I do. -dans
\_ *shrug* Whatever floats your boat, dude.
\_ 'last' is what the op was looking for. I don't think
they deserved to be abused for asking a question like
they did. they certainly weren't asking for any
special logging or effort on anyone's part.
--doesn't do the ad hominen thing
\_ "last | grep reboot". I apologize in advance if this is actually
useful info.
\_ or "last reboot"
\_ Even better
\_ Excellent. Thanks. -op |
| 2006/2/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:41825 Activity:kinda low |
2/13 Soda undergraduates, I am too old to remember this, is English
1A/1B a requirement for CS in L&S?
\_ I thought it was a requirement for every department in L&S.
Relatively easy to test out of, though.
\_ Yes, as the pp indicated, it is an L&S requirement, not a
major/departmental requirement. A 4 on the AP English exam tests
you out of 1A, a 5 tests you out of both. -dans
\_ OTOH 1B was not required for EECS.
\_ There is the 2 semester R&C requirement but you don't have to take it
from the English department.
\_ and frankly, I am not sure English 1A/1B helped.... as my messages
on motd clearly illustrated. |
| 2006/2/8-10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:41765 Activity:moderate |
2/8 linxu, what is it you guys want from us alumni? Many of us are
old, disillusioned, lonely, pathetic, and pissed off engineers.
Many of us are single, still virgin, and almost 40 years of
age! I'm not so sure that hooking up old and pissed off alumni
with you happy and optimistic youngin' is actually a good thing
for you guys. Seriously, don't do engineering and GET A LIFE outside
of Soda! Screw coding, debugging, and sysadm. It's all meaningless
and dry, and will get outsourced to India and China anyways. How
about ditching your new technical mentoring program and instead
concentrate on things that'll make your life to be more
fulfilling when you're older. For example get someone from Cal
MBA to do tech entrepreneurial talk, or get hooked up with the
busadm people, like doing a CSUA+MBA+busadm event. Seriously, there
are so many fine opportunities and fine women outside of Soda.
You deserve to have a better life than many of us uninformed
alumni when we were young and stupid and didn't know what we
were doing. -disillusioned virgin, should have done something else
\_ I think its much more for those alumni who would be interested in
meeting the current politburo and office hosers. I know a few
graduated alumns who I think would come and would be nice to see
again. This is not necessarily a networking to get current students
jobs or ellicit donations, but just to involve the alumni with the
club more. When I'm an alum I'd like to go to something occasion-
ally to see how the club is currently functioning. This is very
much geared to friendly alumns, so if you are just angry and bitter
(and don't want to at least act friendly) you probably want to stay
home. -mrauser
\_ maybe you should move to an asian country where your poor
english skills will be less of a barrier to finding eligible
women.
\_ speak for yourself. I could have learned a lot from alumni
when I was in school if I hadn't been too busy playing on MUDs
chasing after women--things I had to learn myself after I
graduated and had to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.
Good idea on the MBA entrepreneurial talk, though. That could be
pretty useful.
\_ But would you have really listened to the bitter old men or
dismiss them as, well, old and bitter virgins?
\_ Well, I've found the "bitter old virgin" stereotype to be
mostly untrue -- except in a few cases where it's more a
problem of attitude than geek culture. And yes, I'd have
listened to Soda's elder statesmen for general advice about
"what happens next", and I'd have looked out for the
opportunity to network with people in industry. Maybe you
should get some counseling or something, man, since you seem
really unhappy and have a pretty self-defeating attitude...
unless you're happy being a old bitter virgin.
unless you're happy being an old bitter virgin.
\_ Nah, I was an arrogant kid in college and didn't listen
to any "elder statesmen" who might have showed up (and
few did). Lots of others were the same. It makes me wonder
if having an alumni meeting is worth it.
\_ The purpose of an alumni meeting is for alumni to meet
college girls. Maybe you're too old already though.
\_ Hey nineteen, that's Aretha Franklin. She don't
remember the Queen of Soul.
\_ Assuming you're the op, so you were an arrogant in
college and now you're a bitter old virgin. Perhaps
it's time for a change in strategy? In the mean time,
please don't be a bitter dour naysayer of good ideas
just because you wouldn't have benefited from them back
when you were a young ass. -dans
\_ Sorry, !op. The op is obviously trolling. I am
expressing the fact that in college, the last
thing I wanted to hear is old farts talking about
their glorious college days. If it's going talking
about the stuff they are doing now, that's better.
\_ Then why didn't you say that an alumni meeting
where they talk about what they are doing now >>
alumni reminiscing about college instead of
merely expressing vague, bitter, dour, naysayer
misgivings? Seriously though, thanks for the
clarification, I think it's important. -dans
\_ No agenda mentioned. Assumed it was going
bitter, old virgins showing complaining about
the motd and their ideas of improving {unix,
nethack,BSG} all of which include more full
frontal MOTAS nudity.
to whatever "elder statesmen" who might have showed up
(and none did). Lots of others were the same. It makes
me wonder if having an alumni meeting worth it.
\_ That's funny. All the CSUA allumni I
\_ That's funny. All the CSUA alumni I
know personally are a lot of fun,
including the above dans. I wanted to
go just because it would be fun.-jrleek
\_ I like feeding the myth. And I troll too.
\_ Speak for yourself. I'm a happy, married, going-on-30-year-old
engineer. I've liked every job I've had and can't imagine doing
anything else. I got my first few jobs because of all of the time
I spent fiddling on the computer instead of { studying, having a
life, going outside, etc } while in school.
\_ Speak for yourself, I'm a happy mid-twentiesomthing alum. I'm
totally into the latest of a string of hot girlfriends that began
\_ pixP
\_ #t
Stop being anal about this, P-guy. ___P _/
was first popularized with foodP, which if
people had really only responded with #t and nothing else
wouldn't have been a very useful thing. It just means
____? these days, deal with it.
\_ I date hot girls
because I like them,
not so I can parade
them around like some
sort of trophy for you
to ogle. -pp
\_ ___P and #t are also mismatched conventions.
\_ ___P ==> ___predicate...ie, boolean. You know...#t/#f.
\_ I'm referring to mixing LISP vs. Scheme conventions.
\_ Okay, this is where we tell the joke about there being
10 kinds of people in the world, those who can count in
binary and those who can't, thereby officially
consigning this argument to the nerd humor graveyard
after killing it, digging it up, and killing the zombie
corpse again. -dans
\_ Speaking of zombies, I thought Cemetary Man kind
of rocked. That was a great film. I've never
been as impressed with the Romero Quartet, though.
*shrug*
\_ I'll have to check that out. Thanks. -dans
\_ analP
\_ correctP
back in my undergrad days. As an undergrad I spent lots of time
geeking out, learned a lot, but still made time for a social life
(not necessarily out of Soda, but a social life nonetheless). The
time spent geeking out definitely led to the jobs I've held. I
left my most recent gig in November, took a few months off, and am
excited about the prospects for what's next.
\_ what about happy old virgins?
\_ Ah reminds me of the good old days where CS8 (Pascal) was a
Business Admin requirement (logic, you know) and, as a reader or
lab aide, the access to cute women was easy...
\_ To the lonely 40 year-old virgin sodan, if you are truly
depressed, and want to do something about your life before
it is too late (or before your sperm all dries up), move
out of Silicon Valley, seriously! If I am in your
situation, I would seriously consider working in another
country (especially Asian country such as China) for a few
years instead of rotting in the Silicon Valley waiting for
something to happen. You don't have to work I the tech
field, teach English, or be a fool and appear in their TV
shows! Apply for graduate school there. If you work there
for a few years you'll get to know the girl better so you
have more to base your decision on. It's an equal playing
field. It'll be the opposite of Silicon Valley for you. You
get to say "sorry, I am flattered, but I am not
interested!". Or you can continue to bitch and moan about
being a virgin on soda.
\_ That's only if you want to date Asian women, NTTAWWT. I
guess it might work also in Latin America, in which case
you are an f-ing genius. |
| 2006/2/7-9 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:41755 Activity:moderate |
2/7 Dear Alumni, the current politburo is thinking about having an alumni
event. We were thinking of having an event here in Berkeley in a couple
of months (perhaps near the end of the semester). Here are some options
we would like you guys to vote on:
* Resturant or Soda-BBQ
* Weekend Evening or Weekday Evening?
* How far in advance?
Thanks all
-lin / CSUA Alumni relations
\_ ack, this is too much pressure! What is it you want from
us alumni? Money? Attention? Job? Companion? Love? Well
we can't offer the last one but I can give you an advice.
If you don't have a mate and graduating soon, GET ONE.
Real life in Silicon Valley is lonely and depressing and
unfulfilling. You spend weekdays and weeknights with other lonely
geeks like yourself, debugging someone else's code 24x7.
I guess this is alright if you're gay. But if you're not,
understand that most of the women in Silicon Valley are
married, and those that aren't are either old, ugly, or both,
and still in high demand. Get mate while you're still in college
or forever be doomed to bitching on motd as your only source of
sexual relief -pathetic alum, really miss college
\_ Actually I really miss multi-day hack sessions, sexual
\_ Actually I really miss multiple day hack sessions, sexual
frustration, and lonely geekdom.
\_ I agree, if I hadn't gotten married right out of college, I
don't know how I would've met anyone around here. -happy mar.
\_ I met a sexy young caucasian girl who works for a pharmie as a
s/w engineer who is single. So it can happen.
\_ Are you serious? It is my impression that most of the sodans
have Asian fetish. You are not a real Sodan.
\_ Err, most != all
\_ I won't speak for all alums, but I imagine weeknights are
bad for everyone what with work/wife/kids. They are probably
also bad for students what with school and/or work. Make it
a Friday or Saturday.
\_ Soda-BBQ seems much better in terms of miixing and such.
\_ Soda-BBQ works better for me. Make is on the weekend before
a Cal game and I will show up for sure! -ausman
\_ Soda-BBQ + weekend for me. --dbushong
\_ Soda-BBQ + weekend works for me. -dans
\_ P.S. Two weeks lead time would be great. My February is
already completely booked.
\_ Soda-BBQ + weekend is the most likely for me. It would be fun
to meet some of the people that I've been ridiculing on MOTD for
years so I can ridicule them in person. You going to be there
John?...I could sure use a good yodel to perk me up. -mice
\_ Olay deedle fucking dee. -John
\_ Soda-BBQ + weekend for me, too.
You know, back in my day, we didn't have BBQ's. Or sodas. Or
weekends. We had treebark. And we liked it. We loved it.
-geordan
\_ *pshaw* In my day, we didn't even have trees. We just had
roots. When we got hungry we had to gnaw on the bare,
uncooked roots in the sun (since we didn't have trees for shade).
Kids these days.... -mice
\_ I needed a new heel for my shoe, so I decided to go to
Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those
days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at
the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in
those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on
'em. 'Give me five bees for a quarter,' you'd say. Now
where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an
onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They
didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing
you could get was those big yellow ones... |
| 2006/2/7-9 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:41752 Activity:nil |
2/7 amckee's politburo made a sharp turn to the right when they
authorized the electronic surveillance of motd post. Read
the minutes and grep for jrleek. God Bless.
\_ no loggers going. flame down. -mrauser
\_ Alright then, how do you explain tom identifying people
correctly? And why did you vote for Bush in 2000 and 2004?
\_ I believe mrauser is replying in the context of official
kernel-integrated logging, not logging by users privately.
\_ didn't they eventually decide to turn off all logging?
\_ We now only log suspected loggers, unless the post is really
juicy.
\_ Not true. The religious right took over politburo and now
it thinks and acts just like the Bush administration. The
bottom line, if you are a good person you have nothing to hide.
\_ We now only log suspected terrorists, unless the post is
really juicy.
\_ huh? |
| 2006/2/6-7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:41724 Activity:nil |
2/6 Anyone else receiving email messages that have headers but
no content? I confirmed with the sender that there was in
fact content in what was sent. Perhaps the recent downtime
plus massive mail delivery to catch up is to blame, but I've
never observed this particular symptom. -srgordon
\_ I received a couple of emails like this too. - ciyer
\_ I received at least 1 email like this. Also, I did
not receive one particular email that was sent either
Sunday or Monday afternoon (it's already Tuesday morning
as I write this).
\_ Me three. --PeterM
\_ It has been asked multiple times on MOTD, and I don't recall ever
seeing a technical answer. So what is causing the recent soda
instability?
\_ amckee fostered a culture where socializing and mentoring
freshman/sophomore candidates for the CS major were prioritized
over technical clue, in particular system administration. At
\_ Stop criticizing amckee. You're either with amckee, or
against amckee. Even if you don't criticize him he may
launch an preemptive attack in Operation Squish Dissent
until Mission Accomplished. How? His conservative buddies
in politburo spies by reading secret root motd log and
email without warrants. Amckee is right. He is always
right and resolute. So bring it on, dans. God Bless.
\_ Kindly explain how a factual recount of recent history may
be considered `criticism.' Anyway, it be broughten. -dans
\_ I think you missed the joke. --someone else
\_ Joking at the expense of amckee is a sorryable
offense.
the same time he alienated many alumni including some root
staff. Thus, present day ops staff (i.e. VP) get less insight
and assistance than they did in the past. Present day ops staff
may or may not have clue, I don't know, I've never met them.
That said, the motd has never been an official politburo/root
outlet. Consider mailing politburo, root, or, bettery yet, show
up to a politburo meeting.
-dans |
| 2006/1/27-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:41575 Activity:nil |
1/27 Hi mehlhaff, can you restart your motd,v archiving please? Thanks!
\_ mehlhaff, please rtfm (man crontab) and setup a cron to make
your archiver more reliable. Having to start it manually is
pretty silly IMHO.
\_ Someone obviously doesn't know mehlhaff. |
| 2006/1/12-17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:41363 Activity:kinda low |
1/12 Help. I'm addicted to the motd. I end up reading the entire
motd every 30 min just to check for updates. It is really
interfering with my work. What can I do to get rid of this
horrible addiction?
\_ take up masturbation
\_ That might be difficult if he works in an office....
\_ Go to the men's room.
\_ Or, better, the women's
\_ Always assuming the sex starved person is male
gets lame after awhile.Not to mention sexist
gets lame after awhile. Not to mention sexist
\_ Sex starved people on the motd are generally
male. so people are going to assume they are
unless there is reason to believe otherwise.
Put your big girl panties on, and deal with
it (i'm manking no assumption of gender here).
\_ That's because women can get laid anytime
they want to.
\_ kais motd intellidiff makes update-checking much faster
\_ how do I use it?
\_ http://csua.com/24/?incr=1
hit reload, new stuff appears in green
\_ I hate you. -op
\_ Are you hanging on my every word?
\_ run /csua/bin/motdbrowser
\_ Read new entries with diff, or motdwatch or something. |
| 2005/12/30-2006/1/4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:41176 Activity:nil |
12/30 Anyone have any idea why soda has been going down more frequently
lately? Haven't seen any info in the official motd, it's been a
couple of times in the last week, iirc. (Not meant to be a
criticism, just wondering what the problem is - thanks to whoever
rebooted!).
\_ obItsTakingLessonsFromYermom
couple of times in the last week, iirc. (Not meant to be a
criticism, just wondering what the problem is - thanks to whoever
rebooted!).
\_ it's on windowz now?
\_ hint: uname -a
\_ Seriously, where are all the humourless n00bs coming from
these days?
\_ our humor has been outsourced i guess..
\_ ...to people that aren't funny...
\_ So really, what's going on with soda? |
| 2005/12/13-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40999 Activity:nil |
12/13 The motd archiver is looking for a more permanent, non-UCLA home.
I as the author will give out the complete DB and the source code
of KAIS MOTD to whoever wants to continue hosting the archives,
preferably outside of the .edu domain for the purpose of
fault tolerance and many other reasons. I don't mind if the new
owner renames it or do whatever with it as long as the archives are
provided to the public on a continuing basis as has been
done in the past few years. If you have the hardware to share
(small bandwidth and only 300M disk), I will spend time to set it
up for you. If no one wants to host it, the archiver will be gone
for good some time next year. Thanks. -kchang
\_ Would this be a good thing for http://csua.org?
\_ the person who owns http://csua.org does not want to host it, for
good reasons (liability, maintenance, etc). In short I actually
think the death of the archiver may actually be good. It'll allow
a few selected motd addicts to move on with their lives. As for
me, I don't mind having one less thing to maintain for the
pleasure of other people. -kchang
\_ http://csua.net, then
\_ It's pointing back to the original .edu ip.
\_ is soda out of question? |
| 2005/12/6-7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40875 Activity:high |
12/6 Sigh, finding my current kchang alias. -emarkp
So now I'm "reagan". Just so you know kchang, I've sent an email to
root asking for your access to motd to be terminated. I have no idea
if it will happen or not, but I thought you'd like to know. -emarkp
\_ Jesus christ you really are pathetic aren't you?
if it will happen or not, but I thought you'd like to know. -emarkp
\_ Ooh. Now I'm hirohito! You're so clever! -emarkp
\_ it's random. it's clear that someone has no sense of humor.
\_ Beats me. I'm emarkp on mine.
\_ I realized after refreshing it a few times that my alias is
rotating through several choices. It's not totally random
AFAICT though, because none of the aliases I'm getting are
neutral. Apparently kchang's maturity level is at about 5
years old. -emarkp
\_ likewise, your intelligence is at about 5 years old.
It took you how long to figure out that you're not
being singled out?
\_ It's not as deterministic as that. I get mostly super
villain names, but so do other posters who posted
when I wasn't online. So it's not a strict mapping.
Different users can share the same kchang identity.
\_ I suspect there are different classifications. If
you've criticized kchang in the past, you only get names
that are negative in his hierarchy. My alias of
"reagan" isn't evil to me, but I'll bet it is to kchang.
-emarkp
\_ And I suspect you are being paranoid. I am biased
though, since I am enjoying all the bad guy names
he's finding. He hasn't even ventured into the
Reagan- or Nixon-era names, yet, but admPoindexter
may be coming soon. Or perhaps he'll stick to the more
simplified comic book villains and slurs. -- megatron
\_ It took about 2 minutes to write a script to log
the names I'm given. Here are the top 4:
109 reagan
17 redneck
13 miniMe
11 hannibalLector
Now I suppose kchang might simply be incompetent
and his use of a random number generator is
flawed, but the above doesn't look random to me.
-emarkp
\_ You're being a fucking idiot. The vast
majority of names are some type of villain.
Maybe you'd rather be Stalin? or theWickedOne?
How exactly are these names non-random? What
could you possibly have in common with mini-me?
The world does not revolve around you.
\_ I think he wants "theHumorlessOne"
\_ Hi kchang! It looks like you've changed
your script since I posted this. Now
suddenly (within the last few minutes) I've
been assigned many more names. Did you fix
your random number usage? Or did you move
me off your "bad" list? -emarkp
\_ you are such a paranoid. and you've
been trolled. congrats.
\_ I'm not kchang. For fucks sake, man,
THINK.
\_ Cool. Would you mind posting the script so we
can all check it out? -- theTempter (as of
a minute ago)
\_ Where is this kchang namecalling down? Is this a new KAIS MOTD
site?
\_ http://csua.com/24/?incr=1
\_ Mehlhaff has been doing it for years with cvs. It was still
there last time I checked.
\_ I use RCS. -ERic
\_ FWIW, I like it. I think it's hilarious. Also, I'm glad the
archive and search functions are back.
\_ Me too! Lighten up, dude. The mapping of name to kchang name
seems pretty random to me. I doubt there is a line:
if (login == emarkp) name = something_negative;
I bet it's just the luck of the draw. - magneto
\_ It still seems random to me. Are you at all sure it can tell who
is posting what? I'm still not even sure what my own alias is. I
assume we all have one or they're assigned randomly.
\_ I'm getting positive characters, like megatron -- w00t!
\_ Megatron is the leader of the Decepticons in the cartoon.
Decepticon is um, evil. Megatron combines brute strength,
military cunning, ruthlessness and terror. Aches to return to
Cybertron to conquest after destroying all Autobots on earth.
Plans to possess all Earth resources. Incredibly powerful and
intelligent. Fires nuclear- charged fusion cannon. Can link up
interdimensionally to a black hole and draw antimatter from it
for use as a weapon. No known weakness.
\_ He was cool though! Turned into a gun and everything
\_ He got pwned by Optimus Prime. Repeatedly. Even
after he became Galvatron. -mice
\_ Acutally if you watch the the first movie very
closely although Optimus Prime is still "standing"
after the fight, he is the first one to die.
Megatron is still in good enough shape to talk
back to Unicron and doesn't ever "die" like
Optimus Prime. So if anyone got pwnd, it was
Prime. [ Yes, Galvatron was beaten by Rodimus
Prime, but that was only b/c Unicorn weakened
Megatron to the point where he could be beaten
by the autobots; Rodimus couldn't hope to beat
Megatron ] - Megatr0n #1 fan
\_ Oh puhLEEEAZE -- the only reason Optimus Prime
didn't waste megatron was because of that useless
interfering twit Hot Rod. Dude, megatron got
tossed out on his ear by freakin' Starscream.
Starscream!, man -- how wussy is *that*? At least
Optimus got resurrected as himself, rather than
absorbed like megatron. -mice
\_ Optimus got resurrected? Did we watch
different movies? Optimus dies and turns
gray in the one I watched and Hot Rod
is given the crystal of power (or whatever).
Cf. Megatron who doesn't die, but is
repaired by Unicron. The part where
Megatron is tossed out by Starscream
is the sadest part of the movie, but
he makes up for any whimpyness in the
very next scene w/ Unicron.
Cf also, Megatron's battle cry "Dece-
pticons Attack!" to "Autobots Rollout!"
No comparison. Its like "Warp Speed Mr.
Scott!" and "Beam me up Scotty" vs.
"Engage" and "Energize." :-)
\_ Optimus eventually got resurrected (twice!)
in the TV show.
\_ Optimus eventually got resurrected
(twice!) in the TV show.
\_ The original tv show? Or one of
the more recent updates? I don't
remember Optimus dying until the
movie (but then again the last
time I watched transformers was
more than 15+ yrs ago).
\_ Yes, the old TV show, a little while
after the movie came out. Not the
new CG/anime stuff.
\_ I'm getting Dr. Evil or Cobra Cmdr, but I'd prefer Dr. Claw!
All in all the names are cool.
\_ Not the kwah... the kwah!
\_ How long do you think it will take kchang to add 'emarkp' to the
list of supervillains? Will emarkp have a fit when he
randomly gets labeled with the horrible moniker emarkp?
Why do you read the motd so much if it offends you? Weren't
you the guy filtering out curse words from the motd?
\_ Hi anonymous troll! -emarkp
\_ It's random for me ... I went from megatron to LeftWingNut to bush
to MaoZedong. I think kchang is just trying to identify the
same posters without identifying the identity of the posters,
pretty cool. Is his degree going to be in social studies of geek
to MaoZedong. Is his degree going to be in social studies of geek
clics?
\_ It now appears to be random for me as well. The distribution was
very much /not/ uniform before, now it appears to be. -emarkp
\_ Uhm, welcome to the nature of randomness.
\_ 7 is the most random number!
\_ Is there a way to add nicknames?
\_ How about "moroni"
\_ Before some politburo individual reads this and overreacts, there is
nothing inherently wrong with kchang archiving the motd, attempting
to guess posters' identities, and posting insulting names in their
places (if he were doing so, which is not the case). If you don't
like kchang's sense of humor, don't bother going to his website.
This is not high school; hell, this is not even college. This is
a globally editable message board which is sometimes informative,
but often irrelevant, like most of the Internet. Get over it.
--erikred
\_ politburo should squish darthVader and Megatron the same way
amckee squished brett. |
| 2005/12/4-6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40838 Activity:moderate |
12/3 Read the motd. Now. - jvarga
\_ jvarga is my hero! (You were on this till 2:30am?) -jrleek
\_ No, I was on this til 4:00am and then forced myself to sleep
because I get up for church at 7:30am. But at least no one can
tell me I am dragging my feet on new-soda anymore. - jvarga
\_ Can you add the new key info to:
http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/computing/hardware
Thanks for all your hardwork.
\_ Soon. I am dead tired right now and just doing stupid random
stuff to make myself feel better. - jvarga
\_ thanks for all the time you've put into this -sax
\_ Yeah, jvarga, you and the rest of root staff that have
been working on this rock harder. - ajani`
\_ I remember in the good old days when Soda machine has to get
to the point of become unbearably slow before the hardware upgrade.
Good job, guys. out of curiousity, what went wrong with the old
Soda again
\_ Run soda inside a VM, and then VMOtion it to the other machine
with 0 downtime!! ;) |
| 2005/12/4-2006/4/7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40836 Activity:nil |
12/4 Welcome to Soda Mark VII! Host keys have changed, the system is
faster, so you can harass the motd faster than ever before. There is
probably a LOT of stuff not installed. Please nicely email root if
something does not work and we will get to it asap. Send cake. Now.
I hate sendmail. Sorry, but I think I bounced every email sent to
@CSUA between 9pm and 2:30am. - jvarga |
| 2005/11/28-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40743 Activity:nil |
11/27 Soda rebooted, so I decided to edit the motd when noone's loggers
were turned on. -mrauser
\_ What went wrong with soda? |
| 2005/11/21-22 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40675 Activity:kinda low |
11/21 Okay, does anyone have a problem with deleting old motd entries? I
delete everything older than yesterday and someone keeps putting it
back.
\_ Older than yesterday? ADD a bit?
\_ Apparently yes, if someone keeps restoring.
\_ Two days old and helpful/interesting sounds right.
\_ The general rule I use is 2 days unless a particular thread
older than 2 days is still active OR the motd is way too long
to retain 2 days worth of stuff.
\_ Yeah I've had people pull that on me. Keeping a long-ass motd
with stale old shit sucks. Fuck whoever does that. |
| 2005/11/17-19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40636 Activity:nil |
11/17 Anyone noticed ilyas' absense on motd? Has he finally quit
being a government leech and become a useful member of society?
\_ no, he's still in grad sk00l far as i know, but yeah he quit motd
\_ You could simulate most of an ilyas by randomly nuking the motd! |
| 2005/11/17-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40635 Activity:nil |
11/17 I'm 41, so what am I allowed to complain about on motd ? I think
if anything, you becoming more accepting of things the older
you get.
\_ If you're replying to the "at least wait till you're 40" post
below, I was not meaning to imply that being over 40 makes it cool
to bitch about young people--just that bitching about young people
when you're barely over 30 demonstrates spectacular levels of
assheadedness. There have always been good people who work hard and
don't complain, and there have always been stupid whiners.
\_ I can agree with that. I went back to college for awhile
and found it odd to be in classes with people who
were not even born when you started college.
\_ Hot and easy college babes are worth it, though.
\_ and if you can't get them, there is always the moms.
\_ standard grumpy-old-man stuff about how things are easier these
days and th whiners should shut up, because you had to hike to
school 5 miles uphill each way, in the snow.
\_ You can always bitch about punctuation and formatting. What
year were you?
\_ Let me put it to you this way, my first college level
CS course (in pascal) was in 1983 and was done on punch cards.
( .. which leads to many .. in my day lines ... )
\_ I am curious because I thought there wasn't anyone from an
earlier class than me ('89) on motd. In fact, when I
graduated, I was the first CSUA excom member to do so in
2 years.
\_ I did not actually graduate from Cal; so you
probably don't know me.
\_ Well, it's either that or you're okamoto.
\_ I actually know Jeff; but its been a few
years (over ten now) since I did anime stuff
\_ Indeed, who are you, ancient master? -jrleek
\_ Punch cards? Didn't Apple ][ support Pascal?
\_ These were batch jobs run on the campus mainframe.
At that time; only CS majors got the priviledge of
using green screens since they were in short supply.
This was not at Cal; btw.
\_ Yes, Apple ][ did support Pascal. But in 1983 Apples ][e
cost more than a semester at Cal.
\_ You have an odd sense of punctuation; btw.
\_ When I first learned C after using Pascal for a year in
school, I though C was cool. Now after using C for 15 years,
I miss Pascal.
\_ The sad thing is you're only 13 years ahead of me and time has
been flowing exponentially faster year after year. Ok maybe
logarithmically. or something.
\_ Its like Indy used to say: "Its not the years; its
the mileage" |
| 2005/11/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40588 Activity:kinda low |
11/14 Time for silly motd confessional: I have been flirting with Kalamata
olives.
First, I hated olives. Later I would enjoy a very small bit of
tapenade on toast. Then I decided I would slowly nibble Kalamata
olives, but only 1 or 2 in a session. Now I devour them. OK, 'night.
\_ Same thing happened to me, but without the tapenade.
It's not hard to hate "California" olives (the black ones you get
on pizzas and everywhere). They're horrid.
\_ Where can I get some? Are they cheap? I've always hated
olives, I'm interested in the idea that some don't taste
like salted crap.
\_ Kalamata are ripe olives cured in red wine vinegar. The ones
with the pits in them have better texture. I've had nice ones
from the olive bins at Cheeseboard and Berkeley bowl.
\_ I like the pitted Kalamatas in olive oil in a bottle they have at
Trader Joe's. They're pretty cheap (~ $3, IIRC). The ones in
water are slightly more expensive and slightly "nicer" (fewer
ripped ones, etc), but the olive oil ones have a better mouth
feel. Mmm. Fat. --dbushong
\_ Kalamatas are often scored to allow the marinade to penetrate
better. |
| 2005/11/8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40492 Activity:high |
11/8 Would someone give me a pointer on what was the big controversy
surrounding KAIS MOTD, the whole story, and in particular, why
the name attribute logging is a such big deal? ever since
KAIS MOTD being terminated, people start to censoring MOTD again.
and it is very annoying.
\_ So, someone said something threatening toward amckee, like
instituting a blacklist saying "do not hire amckee". amckee
used KAIS MOTD identification to turn off someone's account,
someone who turned out to be innocent because KAIS MOTD's
identification was in error. The Politburo sent mail to
kchang asking him to turn it off, with wording that some
inferred to mean "turn off the ident feature or else."
kchang just took the whole thing down. Clear enough? --PeterM
\_ Politburo sent kchang a couple e-mails asking him to turn off
the ID feature, or at least put a big disclaimer about its
(in)accuracy. kchang did not respond to Politburo e-mail and was
threatened by a Politburo member that he may be sorried if he didn't
write back. kchang decided to turn off the archiver entirely. |
| 2005/11/8-9 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40491 Activity:high |
11/8 tom holub
\_ ilya shpitser
\_ david bushong
\_ charlie root
\_ geordan rosario
\_ Hi! -geordan
\_ peter mardahl
\_ (what does this list of names represent?)
\_ People who were at yermom's last night. -John
\_ Evidence that the price of green in Berkeley is Way Too High.
\_ So, someone said something threatening toward amckee, like
instituting a blacklist saying "do not hire amckee". amckee
used KAIS MOTD identification to turn off someone's account,
someone who turned out to be innocent because KAIS MOTD's
identification was in error. The Politburo sent mail to
kchang asking him to turn it off, with wording that some
inferred to mean "turn off the ident feature or else."
kchang just took the whole thing down. Clear enough? --PeterM
\_ Thanks, peterM
in my innocent eye, kchang has nothing to do with this at all.
he has repeatly, and clearly labled that his "name attribute"
logging feature is not accurate. I don't think it's kchang's
problem when someone falsely put faith on that feature, no?
kngharv
\_ Yes, I understood clearly that kchang's naming
feature was not accurate. In fact, his feature
misattributed to me things I didn't say (other
things it got right). Nevertheless, I liked the
feature: it's fine if you understand the quality
and uncertainty of the data. --PeterM
\_ It's a GOOD thing that the archiver is down. Some of
the comments amckee made could be really damaging
to him in the future. Ditto with tjb and ilyas.
\_ my motd archiver is still going strong. -ERicM
\_ it was not a threat, it was an retaliation. I personally
made sure that amckee will never get hired by Google,
Intel, IBM, and countless other companies. I love networking.
\_ This seems inappropriate to me. If you think the guy is so
vile that he needs to blacklisted, don't you think that
he'd do a good job shooting himself down in interviews? If
you think you need to do MORE then it's clearly personal and
not professional. Alot can be said of amckee, but I don't
think this sort of retaliation based on motd content is
reasonable.
\_ It's often difficult diagnosing personality disorders in
an interview.
\_ Yeah, the evidence is that psychopath blacklister
guy got hired.
\_ Honestly, I wouldn't hire either of them, but knowing
what I do, if I had to choose I think I'd hire
amckee over the blacklister guy, but because at least
amckee is honest, and blacklister guy is basically
a cowardly grudge-holding bastard.
\_ I have personally contacted God, and I've made
sure no one from Earth is going to Heaven.
\_ you also seem to love hyperbole.
\_ Just curious--how could you _make sure_ that these
companies won't hire someone? Won't that imply these
companies maintain a blacklist themselves?
\_ I hope I never come across you in my professional life.
Blacklisting is vile. --PeterM
\_ Ditto. To pp, go fuck yourself. -John
\_ not exactly smart signing your name.
\_ What, so I'm supposed to cower in fear
of the blacklister? What is he going to do, put
me on a blacklist for being anti-blacklists? Or
is he going to invent some slander/libel? --PM
\_ It's not only "motd content", but the personal
threats made to some people, and the lack of
any apologies. Look at the psb web site for the
hysterical rantings -- "I will file a restraining
order" "Your friends will not be able to help you"
"The CSUA is a Stalinist Empire and I am Uncle Joe"
"I am keeping a log of your actions" "psb you have
been a hoser by spamming the csua@@csua mailing list"
"the full scrutiny of contract law" "alumni on our
servers is clearly in violation of campus policies"
"I am the resident asshole". I doubt the earlier
poster has the power to have amckee banned at several
large companies, but one can point to the very words
written by amckee.
\_ So you've appointed yourself judge, jury, and
\_ So he's appointed himself judge, jury, and
executioner, and decided that establishing a
precedent for intimidation and execution of
threats on the motd was a more rational and
responsible behavior? How is that supposed to
be good for the motd community as a whole?
Honestly, I think you're the one that should be
sorried here since you not only made threats, but
seem to have actually carried through on them.
Honestly, I think he's the one that should be
sorried here since he not only made threats, but
seems to have actually carried through on them.
Uh oh...have I just made myself a blacklist
candidate, now too?
\_ Politburo sent kchang a couple e-mails asking him to turn off
the ID feature, or at least put a big disclaimer about its
(in)accuracy. kchang did not respond to Politburo e-mail and was
threatened by a Politburo member that he may be sorried if he didn't
write back. kchang decided to turn off the archiver entirely.
\_ This is in the context of a CSUA president who threatened to
turn off the accounts for at least two more people, never
apologized to them, and did a lot of semi-unstable ranting
documented at http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA
and the request-like rather than threat-like nature of the mails
was not communicated to kchang. And some of the communication
was from non-politiburo persons.
\- what sort of moron would try to outthink psb? ok tnx. --#1 fan
\_ What sort of moron would try to outthink psb? --#1 fan
\- psb for president-4-life -- #2 fan
\_ !psb -John
\_ I think !psb may be a popular candidate at the next
politburo elections. -gm |
| 2005/11/7-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40477 Activity:low |
11/07 Has the KAIS MOTD issue been resolved? Can Kevin turn
the 24 hr diff and searching again?
\_ Kevin can do whatever he likes. We asked him (not demanded) that
he turn off the name attribute logging feature because we thought
it would make a more anonymous better environment. We didn't mean
to imply that if he didn't turn it off we would sorry him (as it
is easy for anyone to log motd edits and hard to stop or track
those who do). -mrauser
\_ He would not (necessarily) be sorried for leaving the logging
feature active (unless it became a big problem later in which he
might be officially given an ultimatum), but he was threatened
with sorrying for not responding to the Politburo e-mails.
\_ It is my wish to see CSUA become a better place than before. I am
convinced that the motd experiments I ran in the past year
made CSUA much worse, and I apologize to countless number of
people who were directly or indirectly inconvenienced by the
experiments. I'm very sorry. I have unplugged my work indefinitely
and I hope by doing so CSUA will be nice again. Finally I'd like to
point out that mehlhaff has done a great job archiving the motd
on a consistent basis and I highly recommend his work. Mehlhaff's
original archiver was an inspiration to me, and will no doubt
continue to inspire many programmers to come. Thanks. -kchang
\_ Translation: "You've done a good job pissing me off.
I have no intention of providing a service
for you ungrateful sodans and incompetent politburo
members alike. I'm leaving, y'all go fuck yourselves."
\_ I found the kais motd extremely useful ... and searching
through it quite helpful. who thinks so strongly otherwise?
\_ I agree that your efforts as a whole made it significantly worse.
However, removing the "guess the poster" function would make
things better IMO. -emarkp
\_ I sometimes used the search/archive features. I think it
was useful and would lobby to have it turned back on
without the aforementioned "guess the poster" function.
\_ Thirded.
\_ I will add on a small bribe.
\_ Yeah, ok, so would I. So what's yer price, kchang?
\_ The price is a regime change in politburo, a
regime that is now ruling soda with an iron fist
\_ You would need some sort of fake WMD evidence
before you can embark on a regime change.
\_ [insert ObPantsMissle joke here]
\_ [insert ObFakedIntel joke here]
\_ me too -ausman
\_ The ID feature created a great deal if not all of the
controversy. I think it was a very helpful service otherwise. |
| 2005/10/26-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40277 Activity:moderate 76%like:40271 |
10/25 To Politburo:
The next time you decide to limit or modify a feature available to
many CSUA users, can you please please please consult motd or a
well-populated mailing list first, you know, just to get the popular
opinion? Thanks. -soda user
\_ Politburo voted to *ask* kchang to turn off the attribution
in KAIS MOTD, and specifically said that they weren't going
to sorry him or anything if he refused. Read Brett's message
carefully: the first paragraph is from politburo, the second
is the opinion of one random person on root, and the third is
from Brett personally.
\_ Nice revisionist history. Politburo and root staff as bodies
asked kchang to turn off attribution. One staff member (turns
out to be Jon) said adding a disclaimer would be sufficient.
(BTW, in my universe, the word of one root staff member is
worth much less the the combined opinion of the politburo and
the root staff. Perhaps it is different in your universe.)
There was a threat of account shut down if kchang does not reply
(not clear who the source of the threat is). And then there
was a threat from Brett that kchang may violate the not-a-hoser
rule. It is only in a *later* email that the hoser threat was
removed in a "clarification".
\_ even if I was the "*one*" root person who said this, I
am of the general impression that others on root felt that
it was a reasonable approach to take. --Jon
\_ Well, you and others on root may have felt that. However,
I don't know that from reading the email kchang posted.
In that email, it seems quite clear that it was the
request of both the politburo and the root staff (as a
body) that the attribution function be turned off. Does
kchang have a good enough pulse on the mood of root staff
to be able to infer that that position is not final,
to be able to infer that that request is not final,
despite the letter of the email? Where is Carmac when
you need him?
\_ It sounds like we agree. Politburo voted to make a non-
threatening request. Brett sent out a threatening request,
misleadingly presenting jon's and his own opinions (which
I agree are worth a lot less than a politburo decision)
as official. Politburo is to blame for lots of things,
but I don't think this is one of them. -pp
\_ no name, no weight. Your post will be ignored.
\_ Would you plese show me where in
http://csua.com says that
the politburo "specifically said that they weren't
going to sorry him or anything if he refused" per your
original claim?
\_ BTW, the time line isn't clear. It is clear that Brett
threatened kchang with hoserfication. It is also clear that
the hoserfication threat was later removed in a clarification.
When did the politburo had the finding that kchang was not being
a hoser? Was it before Brett's threat, and therefore Brett
had no grounds for his threat? Was it after the threat, so
Brett thought he could legitimately threaten? Is misrepresenting
the opinion of the politburo in an official communication a
sorryable offense?
\_ As amckee explained it, "[the CSUA] is not a democracy. We're
[the Politburo] democratically elected, but once in office we have
near complete authority to implement the policies we see fit.
Think communist russia, not democratic greece." They are under
no obligation to consider alternative points of view, and apparently
they have no inclination to do so in any case.
\- ObStarttheOutOfContextTimer
\_ Time for another soda alias, keystone-kop@soda: amckee
\_ Wouldn't that be kritical-keystone-kasset?
\_ I nominate IWillBlackListYou for greatest troll
of all time.
\_ I dunno, it's got pretty stiff competition: GUN DUEL
anyone?
\_ Yeah--that one worked perfectly. -John
\_ That was brilliant. Did the perpetrator (who
should be proud of their handiwork, I think)
ever come forward? -- ulysses
\_ It was Mark Felt. -John
\_ It was I.
\_ So besides being ticked off by the tone of the email, what is
kchang's reason for not putting up the disclaimer and saving all
of us eyestrain from reading an evergrowing motd?
\_ kchang is under no obligation to provide the MOTD threading
service. He did it as a favor, and I assume he no longer feels
a desire to do favors for the current regime.
\_ We need a regime change. The current administration is as
compentent and likeable as the Bush administration.
Oh and if you ever find out who I am, please don't
squish me. -scared poster
\_ The current regime has not invaded any other campus
groups unilaterally for no reason afaik.
\_ I predict that if they did that, alumni support
would increase, not decrease.
\_ Maybe politburo should start drafting these things as a
committe instead of delegating people to do it. You guys keep
putting your collective foot in your mouth. -jrleek
\_ Come back to the five and dime, Kevin Chang, Kevin Chang.... |
| 2005/10/26-28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40276 Activity:low |
10/26 emarkp, for a Mormon, you have a serious attitude problem.
ilyas and aaron stopped posting and have moved on with their
lives. There is life outside motd, like bible study or something
much more constructive. Get a fucking life you fucking self
righteous nut. This is the last time I'm posting on motd.
\_ Good riddance. -emarkp
\_ Good riddance. I think anonymous trolls like you who call out
people by name are the scourge of motd. I'd be happy to discuss
what you think my "attitude" problem is. You even have my email
address. Otherwise, it's prbobably a very good thing that you're
bowing out of motd. -emarkp
\_ Sheesh. I've been posting to the motd and walling for the better
part of 15 years and in all that time I've never been threatened
or insulted to any kind of level that bothers me much, even by
people who obviously hold opposite viewpoints on a wide variety
of topics and total freaks like dickylee. In fact, I believe motd
and wall have actually become much more civil over time, probably
because of the higher average age/maturity of the contributors.
Maybe people should consider upgrading to a thicker skin. If you
can't take the heat, stay off of the motd, so I agree with emarkp
here ... -eric
\_ You must be /this/ tall to ride the motd. Parental guidance
suggested.
\_ I am /that/ tall, and I've been on nearly as long as ERic,
and I completely agree. --erikred
\_ eric or ERic? Because I'm eric not ERic -eric
\_ whoops, sorry. I meant ERic. mistaken identity. -erikred
\_ You said ERic and meant ERic and that's mistaken
identity?
\_ Are two people named "Eric" having a debate about
a third person named "Eric", or am I going slowly
insane?
\_ I hate you people....I really, really do.
-confused sodan
\_ Sigh it's not complicated. You see:
eric == eric@soda
ERic == mehlhaff@soda
erik == erikred@soda
Since I wrote the bit above I'm confused why
he talks about ERic when that's not me.
-eric (the one true eric)
\_ Then we agree to agree.
\_ i think there's just one guy who trolls specifically like this.
anyone know who it is? is it someone posting via an outside-soda
gateway?
\_ It's kchang. -tom
\_ is it kchang or a kchang-owned process that someone else used
to troll?
\_ My assessment of it being kchang has nothing to do with
idle times or running processes. -tom
\_ yes we know, you've been sniffing the engineering
network for quite some time now, you phreak.
\_ Yes, tom knows all and sees all. -emarkp
\_ I just put the stones inside my magic hat and
it came to me.
I really don't think there are a large number of
schizophrenic stalkers obsessed with who is
posting what on the MOTD. -tom
\_ tom, I don't want to know anything about your
stones. -emarkp |
| 2005/10/26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40271 Activity:high 76%like:40277 |
10/25 To Politburo:
The next time you decide to limit or modify a CSUA-wide feature, can
\_ It wasn't a CSUA-wide
feature. It was a
www-wide feature.
-emarkp
\_ You are splitting
hairs.
you please please please consult motd or a well-populated mailing
list first, you know, just to get the popular opinion? Thanks.
-soda user
\_ Politburo voted to *ask* kchang to turn off the attribution
in KAIS MOTD, and specifically said that they weren't going
to sorry him or anything if he refused. Read Brett's message
carefully: the first paragraph is from politburo, the second
is the opinion of one random person on root, and the third is
from Brett personally.
\_ Nice revisionist history. Politburo and root staff as bodies
asked kchang to turn off attribution. One staff member (turns
out to be Jon) said adding a disclaimer would be sufficient.
(BTW, in my universe, the word of one root staff member is
worth much less the the combined opinion of the politburo and
the root staff. Perhaps it is different in your universe.)
There was a threat of account shut down if kchang does not reply
(not clear who the source of the threat is). And then there
was a threat from Brett that kchang may violate the not-a-hoser
rule. It is only in a *later* email that the hoser threat was
removed in a "clarification".
\_ BTW, the time line isn't clear. It is clear that Brett
threatened kchang with hoserfication. It is also clear that
the hoserfication threat was later removed in a clarification.
When did the politburo had the finding that kchang was not being
a hoser? Was it before Brett's threat, and therefore Brett
had no grounds for his threat? Was it after the threat, so
Brett thought he could legitimately threaten? Is misrepresenting
the opinion of the politburo in an official communication a
sorryable offense?
\_ As amckee explained it, "[the CSUA] is not a democracy. We're
[the Politburo] democratically elected, but once in office we have
near complete authority to implement the policies we see fit.
Think communist russia, not democratic greece." They are under
no obligation to consider alternative points of view, and apparently
they have no inclination to do so in any case.
\- ObStarttheOutOfContextTimer
\_ Time for another soda alias, keystone-kop@soda: amckee
\_ Wouldn't that be kritical-keystone-kasset?
\_ I nominate IWillBlackListYou for greatest troll
of all time.
\_ I dunno, it's got pretty stiff competition: GUN DUEL
anyone?
\_ Yeah--that one worked perfectly. -John
\_ So besides being ticked off by the tone of the email, what is
kchang's reason for not putting up the disclaimer and saving all
of us eyestrain from reading an evergrowing motd?
\_ kchang is under no obligation to provide the MOTD threading
service. He did it as a favor, and I assume he no longer feels
a desire to do favors for the current regime.
\_ Maybe politburo should start drafting these things as a
committe instead of delegating people to do it. You guys keep
putting your collective foot in your mouth. -jrleek
\_ Come back to the five and dime, Kevin Chang, Kevin Chang.... |
| 2005/10/25-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40269 Activity:high |
10/25 http://csua.com Uber-lame. \_ I suggest that various members of root staff and/or politburo are violating the "not being a hoser" clause by sending such a stupid message and shutting down a useful service. \_ root/politburo had only requested that kchang remove the faulty attribution feature. I think kchang took down the rest of it all on his own. \_ root/politburo clarified that the request was only for the removal of the faulty attribution feature. \_ politburo wields a big sword in front of kchang and tells him to take out 24HourDiff, then asks him to be nice and put back a useful archiver service. You honestly think that after wielding your big sword [and causing resentment], that he's going to be nice to you again? You fucking fresh politburo virgins just don't understand basic psychology. \_ Inconceivable! amckee has managed projects with 30 engineers flung across the globe (though we were never told why those engineers felt the need to flee), and the the Psychology Dept has classified him as a Critical Psycho Asset. How can he not know basic psychology? This is in all ways inconceivable. \_ I do not think that word means what you think it means \_ It was still an stupid message. What's with the vague innuendo? What's with the idiotic requirement in the first place? Why is energy being spent on that? (Also, the thing about not being a hoser basically suggests he had to shut it down.) \_ Well, amckee wrongly sorried someone based on kchang's attribution. That must be immensely embarrassing for amckee personally and the politburo in general. Of course they want to shut it down. In fact, isn't amckee the only documented case of someone actually doing bad things (rather than merely threatening to do bad things) based on kchang's attribution? \_ I suspect part of the rationale is that, by identifying users this way, it also opens up the door for persecution of individuals that post stuff that people don't find palatable for whatever reason. I'm just guessing about that, though, based on hearsay that I've heard. I haven't had a chance to decide for myself whether this is really reasonable. *shrug* \_ The biggest issue with the attribution feature \_ The biggest problem with the attribution feature is the fact that it was not reliable. Stating as fact to the world that "baz wrote this", when in fact it was written by foo is a problem. \_ But you have to respect how this was handled (sarcasm) No prior discussion a very widely used facility is is going to be forceably shut down and then "Last minute email from root ..." \_ But you have to respect how this was handled (sarcasm) No prior discussion a very widely used facility is is going to be forceably shut down and then "Last minute email from root ..." What does this refer to: "we don't think this is a sorryable offense"? Are you so delusional to think you could have sorried him for running it in the first place (Politburo edicts now may have retroactive liability?) or that if he didn't comply then you would not have sorried him? Was this an "order" on pain on being sorried or was it a request? Is the politburo interested in hearing requests to reactivate the service? Thanks for the detailed coverage of the Video Game Tournament though. \_ your facts are confused. \_ your facts are confused. -brett \- is this kinda like how i took things out of context when i provided links to the entire paper trail? maybe you can clarify? It seems the the PP is asking for clarification. "good night and good luck" --psb \_ Uhm, are you addressing me or politburo? I'm just taking a shot in the dark about why this service is being blamed. If you're addressing me then your hostility is very very misplaced. \_ I would say he is speaking of the action by Politburo. -someone else \_ Get your facts straight. \_ I agree with previous poster who says that process has been bungled. There could have been plenty of discussion from soda users via motd or listserv on what to do (if anything) about kchang's logging feature, but this resource was not consulted. This is the power of Politburo, but Politburo exercised this power ... unwisely in this case. \_ he was asked merely to put up a disclaimer about the inherent inaccuracy of his system. he chose instead to shut it down. \_ kchang was asked twice to remove a feature. kchang took down his motd site. It was clarified by mrauser that "Your welcome to turn it back on, but it would be nice if you disabled the feature that attributed each post to whomever you thought made it" kchang hasn't posted the clarification on his website. -brett \_ "[T]here is doubt regarding whether your use of CSUA resources violates the 'not being a hoser' clause of the CSUA policy" clearly sounds like a threat. Perhaps it is unreasonable to expect kchang to play nice after being threatened. \_ [brett's clarification removed after I removed the point requiring clarification] \-So the position is "The pburo believes it is acceptable for mr kchang to include a disclaimer about the accuracy of the attributions and operate as before"? (If you are replying to clarify, and are a root/pburo person, it would be helpful if you would sign your name, for obvious reasons). --psb \_ I'm not a politburrito (anymore, thank god), but given that there's not really anything keeping someone else from doing this sort of thing, I don't see the point in telling kchang or anyone else not to do this. Asking to take into consideration its effects on motd as a forum (and possibly turn it off)? Sure. Personally, I draw a line at not noting the inherent inaccuracy of this system. While amckee should have known better anyway, I think it's pretty lame to attribute posts to people based on circumstantial information without noting that the conclusions are circumstancial too --Jon \_ Clarification please. Many of us have our personal attribution scripts. Is it acceptable for us to run them? Is it acceptable for kchang to release his scripts so other people can run them? Strictly for each runner's personal use and entertainment, of course. \_ It's one thing to come to your own conclusions about who wrote what, based on whatever methods you chose, whether it be ps(1) info, w, fstat, the phase of the moon, reading /dev/random, whatever. It's another to tell others your conclusions ala KAIS without at least letting others know how reliable your conclusions are and how reliable your methods are. --Jon \_ While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. I asked very specific questions, and I am really look for answers, and not just replies. Are we allowed to run our own scripts? Are we allowed to run kchang's scripts, should he choose to release them? -pp \_ I think it's clear you're welcome to run anything you like for your own personal use. You're being asked not to take that same unreliable information and post it to the public as if it was a source of truth without noting it isn't reliable and is just a poor guess at best. Having been accused of posting things by other people when I wasn't even around and then seeing my name next to some garbage later on a public website is just plain wrong. I've had 'magical kchang quality scripts' for years before he started logging&attributing in public. I have *never* used those scripts to "out" anyone. They can't be 100% reliable and it's distasteful and a gauche to do so anyway. \_ Amusing, I had done the same thing. I figured out who the anonymous Freeper was, but just\ kept it to myself. -ausman out who the anonymous Freeper was, but just kept it to myself. -ausman \_ Are we talking about the same Berkeley students who are supposed to be semi-intelligent enough to understand that (a) something like motd posting attribution is trivial and irrelevant (IT'S THE FUCKING MOTD, FFS) and (b) they shouldn't necessarily take what an off-site resource says at total 100% religious face value? -John \_ it isn't just the motd. it is posted on a public website as if it was truth. just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't or that their opinions on the subject of being falsely attributed to some really horrendous things don't count. \_ I read it on the Internet, so it must be true. I guess I haven't been in the US for a while, so I forgot how thin-skinned and whiny people are. Give me a fucking break. -John \_ they've gotten dumber since you left, Fuzzy. that, and I making a distinction, even if it ends an irrelevant one. -Jon \_ Just because people have become dumber doesn't mean you have to pander to them. -John \_ in the end, it's not about them, but about people who wrongly (knowingly or uncaringly) attribute actions to others on false grounds \- hey it's like FBI v. NWA again! http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/3.chilling-effect (see last paragraph) them? Yes, I am aware there would be a scalability problem. -pp \_ It's common knowledge that kchang's toys \_ I think kchang knows that his results are inherently not accurate. I know you and I know. I wouldn't call that "common knowledge". --Jon are inaccurate, so I don't think you can claim he's actively "attributing actions" uncaringly, just that his scripts are bad. Are you claiming he did so knowingly and intentionally? Because then politburo should come out and say so. -John \_ I think kchang knows that his results are inherently not accurate. I know you and I know. I wouldn't call that "common knowledge". --Jon \_ So anyone who finds my name incorrectly associated with some garbage at his log will know his toy is inaccurate and not assume I wrote something that has my name next to it? I've seen the stuff come out in search engines and not all of us use a name like "John" that will get 8 zillion hits. No, you don't think some person doing a background check will know or care that it is wrong. They will see it and take it at face value and that is far more wrong than him turning off his toy or at a minimum making it loud and clear on each page that his attributions are no better than random spew and should not be taken seriously. \_ And then they will take my kitten away and make me do the dishes and I won't be able to go to all the kewl places because everyone will hate me... Chill out dude. It's the motd and there is a disclaimer. If you're afraid of being tracked for your beliefs and/or quirks, don't post. \_ Missing point: I didn't post but got attributed anyway. \_ Just disclaim it. Like everyone in BushCo does. Point to disclaimer. If getting accused of doing something offensive on the net is going to ruin your future life, your current/future/both life really sucks. \_ You rarely get a chance to disclaim anything. No one is going to tell you why they made a decision. As far as my life/career, etc, you have no clue. Either way, great life or bad, I shouldn't get smeared by a broken script even if it had zero effect on my life. \_ So you're worried a script will randomly ID you as a poster of an offensive item even if you never post. As much as I admire your paranoia, I think you're nuts. You need to ask root to delete your account now just to be super safe. \_ If you're going to go work at a place that does background checks by browsing hozerish archives of student bbs, I am speechless, and I am sorry at how you have thrown away a good Cal education. -John \_ Nice, also not your place to determine what sort of place might read what and what it looks like in a search engine to an outside investigator. When you provide all of us a dream job with no background checks and we choose to go elsewhere, then we'll talk. \_ I like killin' babies. -hmiers \_ All hail the power of the press/goverment/religious ideologues to locate this misattributed quote to bring down a USSC nominee! \_ So the rest of the world should adapt itself to your lack of career clue? Get over yourself. Nobody's interested that you fiddle litle boys. I guess turning this off REMOVES ALL POSSIBILITY OF ANYONE PUBLICLY SLANDERING YOU! -John \_ I'm glad you are Knower Of All. I feel better now that you put up a straw man and knocked it down for me. \_ Am I wrong? -John \_ Well, no. "The CSUA Politburo and members of Root Staff request that you [kchang] remove the attribution feature from your KAIS MOTD." *One* member of root staff wrote that a disclaimer is sufficient in lieu of a full shut down, but it seems clear the politburo and the root staff as full bodies wanted the service shut down. \_ Since I'm sick of reading datasheets, I'll keep on posting. That "*one* member of root staff" was me. --Jon in fact it was written by foo is the issue. \_ Thanks for the clarification. -brett \- hey it's like FBI v. NWA again! http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/3.chilling-effect (see last paragraph) \_ Which is a reasonable request. kchang is just being a baby. -emarkp \_ It was phrased as a threat. As little respect as I have for kchang, he never claimed his toys were authoritative. The people being babies here are the ones whining about "oh n0es, bad things are being attributed to me on the internet!" Whatever. Rampant whiny stupidity just pisses me off. -John \_ It wasn't the first time someone had complained about the inaccuracy of his attributions. His rampant whiny arrogance pissed me off. -emarkp \_ Care to explain why he is whiny and arrogant? \_ Fair enough--like I said. Anyway, re-posting wall & motd and making false attributions (or b.s. ones and claiming they're authoritative) doesn't require csua membership. Note finger?lwall ... -John \_ Forgeries (signing a post with someone else's name) are an obvious possibility of (semi)anonymous things like motd. Saying that you've determined who made a post to motd without saying how certain or uncertain you are is something else. \_ It's usually not considered good etiquette to piss on people who provide a useful service for free. All non-morons knew the vageries involved in the attribution functionality and took them with a grain of salt. I'm pretty sympathetic to kchang here. Maybe he could create a version of KAIS MOTD that requires authetentication so it it so longer requires authentication so it would no longer open to the world at large. \_ like root@csua.berkeley.edu? |
| 2005/10/25-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40262 Activity:low |
10/25 Did amckee ever apologize to anyone? Is he squished yet?
\_ Read the minutes sometime.
\_ From the minutes, amckee did not apologize.
He resigned. But, according to the minutes, he was persuaded by
those at the meeting to un-resign.
Personally I still think an apology is in order, but whatever.
\_ He was also removed from root, and didn't ask to be reinstated.
\_ I'm sorry you're ugly.
\_ Did amckee explain why he decided to resign? That's not in
the minutes either. Since most CSUA members do not read motd,
they have to reply on the minutes for an explanation of what
they have to rely on the minutes for an explanation of what
happened.
\_ Irritating alumni can make kitchen hot.
\_ Do not meddle in the affairs of alumni, for they are
subtle and quick to anger?
\_ Half right.
\_ He should apologize to the people he sorried or
threatened to sorry. How many people is that?
\_ I never intended to sorry that user, Partha S.
Banerjee
\- who is the "I" here? --psb
\_ It's like the CSUA's own Watergate. An Enemies
List, the Saturday Night Massacre, the missing
email from the psb-politburo exchange, the
Vice-Presidential Pardon, and a tainted
Imperial Presidency and Cabinet.
\_ Why can't it be more like Monicagate, at
least that involved a blowjob.
\_ No, Watergate was serious. This is just,
in the words of a great wise man whose name
is lost to the sands of time,
"U S0 == TeH GHEI, D0)D." -John
\_ Obviously it's not a "national nightmare"
of Watergate proportions and perhaps
appropriately it ends [although I suppose
"end" may be premature] with humiliation
rather than a convinction, but there is
a "civics lecture" aspect to this, sort
of like there is to the other sorry saga
of Harriet Miers. Maybe Bushco will
suggest character assassinating her is
of HARRIET THE JUDGE. Maybe BUSHCO will
suggest CHARACTER ASSASSINATING her is
like attacking the govt and is akin to
terrorism. (re: humiliation ... I assume
amckee resigned out of a sense of
TERRORISM. (re: humiliation ... I assume
mr. amckee resigned out of a sense of
shame, rather than needing to spend more
time with say Arabian Horses. my apologies
if he was really resigned for other
personal reasons such as illness.)
time with say Arabian Horses. my
apologies if he was really resigned for
other personal reasons such as illness.)
\_ The only lesson in this is about
stupid people and small-organization
politics. -John
of HARRIET THE JUDGE. Maybe BUSHCO will
suggest CHARACTER ASSASSINATING her is
like attacking the LEAST DANGEROUS
BRANCH of the govt and is akin to
TERRORISM.
personal reasons such as illness.) --psb |
| 2005/10/19-21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40173 Activity:high |
10/18 The following people attended politburo: bonnie, awall, scarr,
myungk, mconst, amckee, mrauser, mbh, geordan, jon, ajani, njh,
mikeh, vadim, linxu. Who is a student and who is an alum?
_____________________________________
< Politburo Approved for YOUR safety! >
-------------------------------------
\ ^__^
\ (xx)\_______
(__)\ )\/\
U ||----w |
|| ||
ObDoNotTauntTheAMcKeePolitburo
\_ Students: bonnie, awall, scarr, mkim (aka myungk), amckee,
mrauser, mbh, linxu, rfm (not mentioned above).
\_ Students: bonnie, awall, scarr, myungk, amckee, mrauser, mbh, linxu.
\_ Students: bonnie, awall, scarr, mkim (aka myungk), amckee, mrauser,
mbh, linxu, rfm (not mentioned above).
Staff: jon, mikeh, vadim.
Neither: mconst, geordan, ajani, njh. --mconst
\_ bonnie, awall, amckee, mrauser, mbh, linxu are students.
the rest are alumns. - linxu
\_ Another newer member rfm was there also, he just wasn't in
the minutes. -mrauser
\_ So does the Politburo have a "vision thing" for the CSUA?
_____________________________________
< Politburo Approved for YOUR safety! >
-------------------------------------
\ ^__^
\ (xx)\_______
(__)\ )\/\
U ||----w |
|| ||
ObDoNotTauntTheAMcKeePolitburo
\_ Say it with me: I will respect the politburo's authoritay!
\_ Was there a politburo meeting? Any news to report?
\_ Yes. Ruling Soda With An Iron Fist!
\_ The official minutes are at http://csua.org/u/drj Quick summary:
the meeting was long and well-attended. amckee resigned, but by
the end of the meeting pretty much everyone agreed to reinstate
him (without root). Politburo decided not to log the motd, at
least for the time being, and will actually try to make it more
anonymous. There's now an explicit policy that root should ask
politburo before sorrying someone, except for account breakins
and similar emergency stuff. --mconst
\_ The minutes are particularly weak on explaining the discussion
about the motd. Basically it was decided that logging it or
moving it to somewhere else would decrease the possible use-
fulness to new students. We proposed instead to try and
do something which would improve the overall quality of the
motd and return it more to its original purpose, an anonymous
discussion. It was proposed we would create a program, much
like /csua/bin/motdedit that would allow a user near total
anonimity (or in the words of Vadim "we can make it really
hard to figure out who posted") when editing motd. In theory,
this will reduce the amount of personal attacks and trolling
in general. I hope this clears up the current course we are
taking in regards to the motd. -mrauser
\_ The minutes are weak on the exact course of discussion
because if I write too much, then people will think
things that are just hypothetical or randomly proposed
are under serious consideration. -linxu
\_ I don't think it's accurate to say that the motd's original
purpose was to be anonymous. In the early days, pretty
much everyone signed their names. It turned out to be
anonymous simply because it was a world-writable file,
so it attracted people who didn't want to be
identifiable. -tom
\_ How long was it before, say, half the posts were
no longer signed? (honestly, just curious) -mice
\_ I don't really recall, but trolling didn't take
over until the mid to late 90s. -tom
\_ Interesting. What happened in the mid to late
90s that made people want to troll? And who
do you think is the best troller of all time?
\_ I think the main thing was one or two dipwads
(reiffin and ecchang) realized they could
get away with saying just about anything,
and get more response to their trolls than
they would in any forum which attached a
name to their comments (because they would
quickly be identified as cranks otherwise).
[Funny that this keeps being deleted] -tom
\_ no, it is ridiculous that you'd feel the
need to post such trash based on your broken
de-anon scripts, especially in the context
of the ongoing "let's make the motd not
suck" discussions ongoing. there is no need
for this.
\_ Oh, come on; it's established fact that
both of those guys are trollers, and
also dipwads. Sorry to have to call
you out, anonymous coward. -tom
\_ Seriously, get over it. We just got
through a whole thing about bad
logging and bad blood in the csua.
Why do you insist on doing this? Let
it go.
\_ I'm just explaining how the MOTD
turned from a useful resource
where pretty much everyone signed
their name, into a cesspool filled
with anonymous cowards like you.
-tom
\_ No, you're making into that very
cesspool you claim to not like.
Signing or not signing made no
difference. In some ways it
made it worse. Case in point:
you're signing your vicious
petty little attack right now.
\- holube is an endangered
species and removing his
cesspool habitat violates
the endangered species act
\_ The motd has always been a den
of iniquity. Perhaps in your
deluded memories it was all
sweetness and light, but as with
many free and open forums, it
lost that innocence long, long
ago. (unlike most sodans)
\_ I think the MOTD has always
beeen sardonic and sarcastic,
but I don't think it
was actively hostile. -tom
\_ tjb is the best troller of all time
\_ Honestly? The Clinton presidency. It got ugly.
\_ How far back was 'original', anyway? -gm
\_ I believe /etc/motd was first made world-writable
on the original Apollo, which would mean 1988 or
so. -tom
\- I dont think there was an explicit view
of anonymity when it was decided to create
the motd.public either, but I think if you
would ask people to pick what is more important:
A: a forum where people are free to discuss
whatever they want ... we'll call this the
"liberty position"
or
B: fostering a certain atmosphere/culture/
environment ... let's call that "a vision
of the good"
\_ I think the main thing was one or two dipwads
(reiffin and ecchang) realized they could
get away with saying just about anything,
and get more response to their trolls than
they would in any forum which attached a
name to their comments (because they would
quickly be identified as cranks otherwise).
-tom
I think many people would advocate implementing A
and **hoping*for*B**. However, I am not defending
I think many people would advocate implementing
A and hoping for B. However, I am not defending
this on "orginalist" grounds, but I think that
is a superior position for other reasons
[like I think political speech should get higher
protection than commercial speech, for reasons
other than "what would the founders do"].
I do recognize certain issues like threats and
harassment, "structural attacks" [writing a
cronjob to munge or destroy the motd], mis-
cronjob to munge or destroy the MOTD], mis-
attributing links to the danhimal or others
etc complicate the question. But I still think
at this point A > B. ok tnx. --ANONYMOUS
etc complicate the question, but I still think
at this point A > B. ok tnx. --THE DANHIMAL
at this point A > B. ok tnx. --ANONYMOUS
\_ "vision of the good?" who *are* you??
\- i am not sure what your point/implication
is but this is sort of in the spirit
of how some terms are used in philosophy.
i cannot go into detail about this in
the MOTD but you can search the WEEB
for expressions like ("priority of
right over [the] good" rawls kant
philosophy liberty). there is some
discussion of this at:
http://www.civsoc.com/cltphil/cltphil6.html
or look for "right over the good" at
"http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,3604,848488,00.html
if you have access to JSTOR you may be
able to find: Rawls J: "The Priority of
Right and Ideas of the Good." which is an
important paper. At least that is what I
learned in the rhetoric class I took on
amckee's advice. --ANON
\_ did psb ever take a class other than
freshman rhetoric? You can log a forum
and still have people free to say
what they want. -tom
\_ I don't agree. Some of the truly
lame/offensive arguments would
likely not be made in a non-anon
forum b/c the speaker may self
censor to avoid public ridicule.
If the primary concern is the
free discussion of all ideas
regardless of how lame or offen-
sive, then the potential that
some ideas will not be presented
dictates that the forum be anon.
If no value is attached to lame
or offensive ideas, then there
is no reason not to log.
\_ There are plenty of lame ideas
posted in non-anonymous forums.
\_ There are plenty of lame
ideas posted in non-anonymous
forums.
-tom
\_ Could tom be getting
dumber?
\_ Now if you were to
give the example of
usenet I'd be tempted
to agree w/ you.
\_ Did amckee admit to wrongdoing and issue an apology as part
of his resignation? Put another way, did amckee explain why
he resigned as president? The minutes are skimpy on this.
\- Perhaps, but the vocal disapproval of the alumni has changed
some of the poltiburo's beliefs on what the vision should
be and how it should be achieved. -linxu |
| 2005/10/18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40166 Activity:very high |
_____________________________________
< Politburo Approved for YOUR safety! >
-------------------------------------
\ ^__^
\ (xx)\_______
(__)\ )\/\
U ||----w |
|| ||
ObDoNotTauntTheAMcKeePolitburo
\_ Say it with me: I will respect the politburo's authoritay!
\_ Was there a politburo meeting? Any news to report?
\_ The meeting was long and well-attended. amckee resigned, but by
\_ Yes. Ruling Soda With An Iron Fist!
\_ The official minutes are at http://csua.org/u/drj Quick summary:
the meeting was long and well-attended. amckee resigned, but by
the end of the meeting pretty much everyone agreed to reinstate
him (without root). Politburo decided not to log the motd, at
least for the time being, and will actually try to make the motd
more anonymous. There's now an explicit policy that root should
ask politburo before sorrying someone, except for account
breakins and similar emergency stuff. The official minutes
are in /csua/pub/minutes/F2005/20051017.politburo. --mconst
least for the time being, and will actually try to make it more
anonymous. There's now an explicit policy that root should ask
politburo before sorrying someone, except for account breakins
and similar emergency stuff. --mconst
\_ The minutes are particularly weak on explaining the discussion
about the motd. Basically it was decided that logging it or
moving it to somewhere else would decrease the possible use-
fulness to new students. We proposed instead to try and
do something which would improve the overall quality of the
motd and return it more to its original purpose, an anonymous
discussion. It was proposed we would create a program, much
like /csua/bin/motdedit that would allow a user near total
anonimity (or in the words of Vadim "we can make it really
hard to figure out who posted") when editing motd. In theory,
this will reduce the amount of personal attacks and trolling
in general. I hope this clears up the current course we are
taking in regards to the motd. -mrauser
\_ I don't think it's accurate to say that the motd's original
purpose was to be anonymous. In the early days, pretty
much everyone signed their names. It turned out to be
anonymous simply because it was a world-writable file,
so it attracted people who didn't want to be
identifiable. -tom
\_ How long was it before, say, half the posts were
no longer signed? (honestly, just curious) -mice
\_ I don't really recall, but trolling didn't take
over until the mid to late 90s. -tom
\_ How far back was 'original', anyway? -gm
\_ I believe /etc/motd was first made world-writable
on the original Apollo, which would mean 1988 or
so. -tom |
| 2005/10/18-21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40151 Activity:nil |
10/18 After motd is successfully Christianized, Conservatized,
and jrleeked, let's all migrate to http://csua.org/motd
\_ We can just use /csua/tmp/motd*
\_ We can just use /csua/tmp/motd.sexfarm |
| 2005/10/17-19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40141 Activity:nil |
10/17 Hi motd and Politburo:
Is it okay to post on http://ucb.org.csua all e-mail exchanges between psb
and cc'd to {politburo,csua}@csua.berkeley.edu?
I am specifically excluding private messages sent between psb and
individual Politburo members with no cc's to the above e-mail
addresses. Thanks.
If you want me to e-mail politburo@csua.berkeley.edu with this request
instead of asking on motd, please go ahead and post that.
\- BTW, it's ok with me. BTW, is this a "sorryable" offense now?
Is http://ucb.org.csua moderated now? --psb |
| 2005/10/16-19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40127 Activity:moderate |
10/16 Dear danh, geordan, psb, peterl, tse, lafe, mice, john, and many
others who have been posting on motd. I'd suggest you guys stop
publicly criticizing amckee because he has no problem squishing
all of you. I'd take his threat seriously as he already squished
someone who threatened to blacklist him at HRs and headhunters
throughout Silicon Valley. I for one will stop saying anything
bad on motd because I value my soda account. -fearful alumus
\_ Troll troll troll your boat -John
\_ funny, these are among the members who have consistently
provided the most support when I've ran into horrible technical
problems during the course of my work and have turned to the
motd or wall for help. -sax
\- I have a feeling Mr. Tse will be unavailable when the pburo
is looking for HSPICE help or hotel recommendations on the
Cote d'Azur. :-) --psb
\_ 1 for 2. No Cote d'Azur for me. Even you should remember
my dislike of the French. My advice is to go to Valencia,
Hotel Ad Hoc Monumental. I can answer most questions spice
and verilog related though. -tse
\_ I've evolved beyond spice and cote d'azur. - tse
\_ You remind me of the grad students who accuse the grad student
union people of "intimidation" because they're annoying, and claim
that grad students live in fear of "union intimidation tactics".
"Union intimidation tactics" means coming by your lab and trying to
get you to go drink coffee and hear about their union. You only
have to tell them to fuck off and threaten to call the cops on them
once, and they *never* come back, and mark your entire department
as "anti union", avoiding that whole section of the building.
Just as blathering about a union is not "intimidation", threatening
to turn off an email account is not a serious threat.
Have you also started to self-censor what books you check out from
the library because the feds might come after you?
\_ Heh, thanks for looking out for me, man. -mice
\_ I think you need to relax. Nobody is going to get squished
for their motd post without a politburo vote. -mbh, vp
\_ Didn't amckee sorry Brett (and then had to unsorry him when it
turns out Brett was the wrong guy)? Did amckee manage to sorry
the right guy eventually?
\_ It is rather amusing that after politburo members
pedantically promise to be fair and impartial after
they possibly implement motd logging, and after
politburo members write, at length, about how reasonable
and wise they are... one of them goes off the handle
and sorries someone for strange reasons. I guess
sorrying someone is a lot easier than emailing someone.
Anyway I don't have much of anything useful to add,
please don't destroy the CSUA, it's been nice knowing
many of you. - danh
\_ Yes, that was a mistake and amckee has acknowledged it.
That kind of impulsive sorrying is not the regular course
of action. -mbh
\_ What CSUA policy has the person posting about the
"blacklist" violated?
\_ None, it was just a troll -mbh
\- just for clarification: is the mbh position
"the user who posted the blacklist post should
not have been sorried because he was just
'trolling'". while the acmkee position is
he should have been sorried, but because we
do not know who it is we cannot do so, but if
we do discover who it is, then we will sorry
the user? i inquire because there are a lot of
thoughts attributed to "the politburo" and it
seems like they are not of one mind here. --psb
\_ I apologize I should be more clear when speaking
on behalf of the CSUA. psb you stated my opinion
clearly. That post should have read "my position
would be to ignore it". -mbh
\_ Is there an established CSUA process to sorry someone?
Is there an established CSUA policy to punish root staff
who arbitrarily sorries someone without following
the established process? Is there a plan to follow
the established policies and punishments in this case?
\_ I read through the CSUA constitution and
/csua/adm/doc/policies, and it appears that the rules
are VERY non-specific, probably intentionally. Now,
if you wanted a heavyweight approach to policies ...
\_ It seems to be up to the discretion of the
politburo. I am guessing nothing will be done.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
\_ Whatever. I'll say whatever the hell I want. I've made backups
of my homedir here. Oh noes, amckee might flip out and wield
his AWESOME POWER and squish me. It's fine, learn 2 govern.
-geordan
\_ You go geordan! Go kick ass the same way you kicked Susan
Graham's ass in 164... or not. :)
\_ Savage Susan is still terrorizing undergrads in 164? Wow.
\_ You make a good point. I'm nowhere near as Powerful as
amckee. That's probably why I've never been christened as
a 'Critical Asset'. -geordan
\_ Stop it, your minority voice is gonna cause every single
alumni to be squished. There goes 30 years of tradition
\_ Yes, and amckee has acknowledged the mistake. And there is no
'right guy' either because the post was a troll.
and that kind of impulsive sorrying will not happen. -mbh
\_ I'm pretty sure I didn't actually post anything
about amckee. --peterl
\_ You don't have to actually post anything. amckee just has to
think you posted something. And the post doesn't necessarily
have to do with amckee; he just has to think it does. - tse
\_ Btw, I've told all the opera companies I've sung with not
to hire amckee. Yes, he has the voice of an angel, but
his diva 'tude and doesn't-play-nice-with-others issues
makes him impossible to work with. --not-scotsman
\_ that's right kid! you'll never work in Broadway again.
\_ Was amckee a Critical Opera Asset too? |
| 2005/10/16-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40123 Activity:low |
10/16 How exactly did "make motd anon, semi-anon, or non-anon" turn into some
hostile "students/politburo vs. alum" hate fest? I keep reading stuff
that strongly implies that "total anon motd" is the "what alums want"
and a "logged motd (of some sort)" is what "students/politburo wants".
This is clearly not the case. Some alums want a totally anon motd,
some want a semi-anon motd and others have wanted it completely
non-anon going back many years. Given that the vote on this vaguely
defined motion was not unanimous in pburo and that they have "already
spent over 50 hours" discussing and dealing with it, it seems like
"the students/pburo" aren't of a single mind either. This whole
students vs alums thing is a red herring that seems intended to
misdirect the entire non/anon motd discussion. Unfortunately, it
seems to have succeeded. :-( Wake up, the strings are being pulled.
\_ I was with you up till that last line. Who's pulling the
strings? The Illuminati?
strings? The Illuminaiti?
\_ It's not a conspiracy. There's someone who wants us to not talk
about the real issue but to babble about this us vs them,
students vs alum nonsense. If not we wouldn't have been
diverted off the original topic on to this hatred garbage.
I'm asking everyone to ignore that noise and go back to the
real issue: the motd and how to make it not suck.
\_ Are you saying we got Karl Roved? --PeterM
\_ The issue is that the politburo has decided that it wants to make
a change (whether it was unaninmous or not is not really germane).
There is an uproar about the change, and I am confident that 100%
of the people who are complaining about the idea are not current
students. I think it is quite difficult to argue that the MOTD
in its current state serves the CSUA's active members, and
similarly hard to argue that the proposed change will have any
deleterious effect on MOTD discussion. -tom
\_ So what does qualify for being on the motd? HW and test answers?
Sunshine, pretty flowers, fuzzy wuzzy bunny rabbits and baby
\_ Don't fuck wih Fuzzy Bunnies. -John
chicks, and meeting announcements? Does the motd get to be a
disasterous insane and inane public forum or the same chirpy,
go-CSUA-happy-happy-joy-joy message every day? What is the
politburo's "vision" of the motd?
\_ Complete non sequitur and red herring. -tom
\_ Not really. If I don't want to be sorried for posting to
the motd, what are the rules? If there are no rules, well,
just say so and note that people will be sorried by fiat.
If you know what will best serve the active members of
the CSUA in the motd, I'd be happy to read it.
\_ How about, the exact same as the rules about being
sorried for walling. It's not that complicated to
figure out what you should and shouldn't do. And
that's completely separate from the question of
whether usage should be logged (as it is in every
other form of electronic communication). -tom
\_ And the official wall rules are? And as shown over
the weekend, logging can lead to arbitary sorrying.
Changed this time, but still sets an interesting
precedent. What is the politburo's vision of what
the CSUA should be? (not really directed at tom
per se, but an open question)
\_ Actually, it was lack of logging that led to
arbitrary sorrying; if the MOTD were logged,
you would never sorry "the wrong man." -tom
\_ I think it's more unchecked ego than lack
of logging that led to arbitrary sorrying
in this case. |
| 2005/10/16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40122 Activity:low |
10/15 As recent ('05) alumnus, I'm very disturbed about the tone being taken
towards alumni by the current pburo. Is this because of bad feelings
towards people like psb & etc for bitching about the MOTD change, or
is it really about the mass alumni community? I found the (recent)
alumni community to be an invaluable resource to me when I was a student;
I even attended social functions with 'geezers' like nevman and felt
enriched for it. I never partied with nweaver, though. Everyone is
right about networking, but I think that the CSUA alumni community
goes beyond that. It's just a pretty freaking awesome group of people!
Where else could I go and have a handful of people spend three hours
recovering my fubared laptop hdd (thanks ajani, vadim, mconst!) and
then laugh with me at my stupidity? Current members are running the
CSUA, no ifs or buts about it. But I hope amckee is not representative
of the majority of pburo or current memberships when he asks "Why
should we even allow alumni on our servers?" The whole point is that
alumni have jobs and lives and our servers are what really creates
the crossroads for the alumni community to flourish. Would you rather
have irc.csua be for current csua members and make dbushoung delink
and run an irc server for alumni? A serious schism between alumni
and current membership strikes me as the worst thing that could come
out of the MOTD changes, whatever happens. -jhs
\_ I have been fortunate to have worked with several alumni, and
almost all of these interactions have been positive and rewarding.
The politburo, and me, have nothing but respect and admiration
for the vast majority of alumni. Hell, we even respect psb. However,
there is a very vocal miniority of alumni that are helping to
derail the CSUA. As others have said, the alumni are an invaluable
resource - for jobs, for insight, for a million things. However,
how likely is it that the majority of them - reasonable, level-headed,
non-trollish peoplt that they are - will look to the CSUA with
repect, given the environment that we're seeing here in the MOTD? If
I had a job opening, of which I've represented many in the past,
I most certainly would not take it to an environment that appeared
to be filled with petulant children, as I would argue we see here.
\_ No, you'd take it to individual people whom you've seen provide
a high signal to noise ratio compared to the petulant children.
Trust me, people are grown-up enough to know not to rely on
the tenor of a publicly writeable text file as a primary means
for judging the membership of an organization. -John
It's not that the majority of CSUA alumni are like this, far from it,
it's just that the vocal minority of ones that are seem to
disproportionally represent the 'culture' of the CSUA. So yes, we're
frustrated with some of the alumni that you see here, but that in no
way translates to all of them. Hell, perhaps some of them would even
come back into the fold, if they didn't think this would end up like
some kindergarten in the Bronx. And no, there are no plans to boot
alumni - that was never a proposition. What was said was that we
put a *LOT* of effort into this environment, mainly used by alumni,
and the generosity of this does not seem to be appreciated. We're
not a free ISP, we're a professional student organization, and it's
only reasonable that we have -some- expectations out of how we use
our servers. Like, "don't act like children". We desperately want
alumni to be a more important part of this organization, but we
need to constantly evaluate whether that is happening and what we
can do to improve it. And, it's important to note, the 'alumni
commmunity' stretches much wider than the MOTD audience, and we
try to keep that perspective in mind, as well. Not only will a
slightly less hostile MOTD be good for new students, it may
very well attract more alumni who have been turned off on it.
-amckee
\_ Just as a tiny piece of advice, if I may be so bold, consider
paring down your essays a bit and working on making a point
in a more succinct manner--it's more effective. -John
\_ And the "why should we allow alumni.." quote was a rhetorical one,
intended to solicit retrospection and perspective. Communicating
subtleties of intent are often difficult in 'informal' environments
like this, and there's at least a fair chance that much of the
animosity comes from both sides misinterpreting the intentions of
the other. As always, talking about things like this face to face
is always far more productive. Alumni are always welcome to
attend politburo meetings (Mondays @@ 7pm) and share their thoughts.
As people like mconst and dlong can attest to, we (and I, especially)
make a lot of effort to solicit their views. An alumni representative
actually sat with us during the MOTD debate and provided more insight
and dialog than any other participant in the audience (politburo
included). This insight was invaluable. We ultimately decided on
the side of anonymity, which was not the position they represented,
but it helped give us a much deeper perspective. If you feel strongly
about something, then the place to broach that is in person at our
meetings. To be honest, with all the emotion on the MOTD, it's hard
to take things too seriously - and it's easy to get into too 'defensive'
a mode of debate. And as much of an apparent schism as seems to exist,
this almost always collapses when you realize that the person on the
other side of the debate is an actual 'person'. -amckee
\_ Above, you write "we ultimately decided on the side of
anonymity"? In the minutes of the meeting, I thought
the 4-1 vote to "Modify the system" was a vote to
institute motd logging? Please explain.
\_ I typed too quickly. We decided to enable a provision such
that, in extreme circumstances, the politburo could identify
the source of an motd edit and deal with them offline, through
our normal disciplinary channels. This would never include
de-anonymizing them to the motd. amckee
\_ It seems clear that the decision to deanon is one for the pburo
to make. The most reasonable complaint I've heard is that the
proposal was not structured or formalized well. This seems fair,
and it may be that the MOTD's importance to some alumni was
underestimated? Putting in the effort to get both a technical
solution and a policy that is robust and as liberal as possible
seems worth it (especially if alumni can be made to do most of the
work?). But I'll likewise agree that some of the same people who
are complaining the loudest don't seem to understand the reality of
today's student body, and don't give credit when credit is due
to the work put in by the current pburo. Of course this is *some*
people, I've seen plenty of jvarga props in the last few months.
-jhs
\_ And yes, jvarga deserves definite props. We sometimes ride
him a bit hard, but he's always had what he felt was the
best interests of the CSUA at heart. We may disagree occasionally,
but he's been one of the most self-sacrificing individuals I've
known. -amckee
\_ The decision I actually proposed was more alumni friendly
than what was originally proposed, in my opinion. We
decided that we needed the capability to identify motd edit
authors, but I wanted to leave the implementation
(technical and theorhetical) largely up to the alumni. This
got thrown back in our face as "we don't want to eat your
dog food". Reasonable, but perhaps more rooted out of
initial frustration. Although we aren't negotiable on the
need for the provision, we're pretty flexible on how it's
done and we're fairly open to suggestions on how
disciplinary action should be handled. My own idea was that
if someone is making threatening, slanderous, or hostile
attacks or comments against another person - the sort of
things that you would not expect to find in a work place or
professional environment - that we need to be able to deal
with that person. In most circumstances, this would
probably start out with a warning. In circumstances like
the one that initially prompted this whole mess, it might
lead straight to sorrying. As with all such disciplinary
actions, this is a matter decided upon by the
politburo. (Granted, if someone is being a real pest, an
officer or root staff may need to temp-sorry them until a
vote can be made.) At no point did we ever discuss or
suggest that we would "tell the world" who the offender
was, that'd just be silly - especially since most of us
don't even use the MOTD. For the most part, it'd probably
be a system such that we only got involved if someone
complained (or how else would we know about it?)
Hopefully, once tempers calm down, we can get some more
productive suggestions on a solution that is as palatable
as possible to the users of the forum. - amckee |
| 2005/10/16-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40121 Activity:high |
10/16 C'mon people, stop threatening to not hire anyone, or sorrying
people.
\_ I agree, that was done in very poor taste. Amckee has put
a _lot_ of work into this organization and just because you
disagree with him is no justification for the threats. You
have also disproved the benefit that the alumni offer, this is
like counter-networking, not offering csua members jobs but
making sure that a csua member is not hired. You certainly should
be ashamed of yourself. -mrauser
\_ "Go go mrauser networking skills!"
\_ No one guarantees anyone a job. If there is an offer of help,
the offer has been to help when a fellow csua-er seems
competent and reasonable, or at least doesn't seem incompetent
and unreasonable. It's not about the decision to de-anonymize
motd; it's about amckee's response to criticism afterwards.
Looking dispassionately at his emails wth Partha and his posts
on motd, does he seem like a reasonable person to you? Does
he seem like someone you would want to work with?
Looking dispassionately at his emails and his posts on motd,
does he seem like a reasonable person to you? Does he seem like
someone you would want to work with?
\_ Much of the psb emails were taken out of context, he really
was being sort of a pain. He would retort to an argument
with a completely sarcastic comment that deserved no response.
That said, no matter how I feel about how amckee acts I would
never start a "blacklist" campaign. Thats obscene. YOU are
welcome to not hire him all you want but its truly not fair
to go out of your way to ensure that hes not hired anywhere
else. -mrauser
\_ Give the grownups a little credit. We're not all that
amazingly juvenile. -John
\_ do you really think sorrying someone over 'being
annoying in email to politburo/root' is valid?
you should read my mailspool, it would make
you cry. - danh
\_ No, I don't think that, nor do I believe I said that.
I thought I just said it isn't right to organize a
"blacklisting" movement. -mrauser
\_ I must be reading The Psb Files in a different
language than you. I think you threaten to
sorry psb for being annoying. Or maybe it's
someone else. I must admit I get the logins of
current politburo members confused. Also, you got
trolled pretty hard, it happens to most people
eventually.
\_ I think if you will look at emails that I sent
the word sorry does not appear in them at all
(although I'm not positive). Please aim your
flame more selectively. ;) -mrauser
\_ If it had been a flame, you would have noticed
real quick. -John
>To: amckee@berkeley.edu, psb@ucsee.eecs.berkeley.edu
>Subject: Re: Character attacks
>Cc: politburo@csua.berkeley.edu
>From: "Partha S. Banerjee,,," <psb@ucsee.eecs.berkeley.edu>
>Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:16:47 -0700
>>This is your first and last warning, Partha. If I continue to see character
>>assassinations against any member of the politburo, myself included, I will
>>sorry your account. If I continue to see defamation against my character, I
>>will file for a restraining order against you that bars you from your
>>behavior. No friends that you think you have on the 'inside' will be able
>>to help you. I have no tolerance for your bullshit and I am keeping a log
>>of the things you say which, so far, have been happily easy to attribute to
>>you. If you wish to debate an issue or represent a political idea, do so as
>>an adult. You're welcome to come to the next Politburo meeting and discuss
>>the concerns you have, but you will not be able to hide behind a computer
>>screen and cast your vitriol on our servers.
\_ It seems to me that a "blacklist" campaign based on a flame
war over a text file would have the main result of causing
people to think that Berkeley CS grads are raving lunatics.
\- look i am getting fed up with this "out of context"
comment. i have "released" essentially all the context.
at this point you have to claim people lack comprehensio$
at this point you have to claim people lack comprehension
or intelligence. because what they are NOT lacking are
the bits and the bytes. the only think i didnt make
public is mr. mckee last reply to me, because it seems
like in that case he sort of asked me not to make
it public. is "being a pain" and sarcasm in the
evergrowing lists of sorryable offenses? i shall now
enjoy my iftar chicken. --psb
\_ I only say out of context because not every email
was posted there (I'm almost certain I had 2-3 more
replies to you than the one I saw). And Some innane
comments you made were:
*While we respect your right to be a complete troll and to voice your
>
do you know what troll means?
just curious.
*there might be an 'easier' solution to them.
>
we might even call it "the final solution".
happy belated yom kippur.
There was also another one, but I don't want to
bother to find it in my emails. -mrauser
\_ Are you saying you *want* Partha to publish every
email that passed between him and members of the
Politburo concerning the motd policy change? And
that would satisfy in your mind the question
whether amckee was quoted out of context? Is
this an official Politburo position?
\_ Thankyou for scewing my words. I said that
it was out of context because not all the
emails were published, it was not a request
for him to publish them. I was the one who
originally told him I was fine with him
publishing them, but I would prefer he not,
just because it will create more and more
spam (of which I don't intend to reply) but
he is free to post any emails he wishes
(unless in that email amckee asked him to not
post it). -mr
\_ It seems somewhat disingenuous to on one
hand not to want psb to publish all the
hand to not allow psb to publish all the
emails and on the other hand castigate him
as "quoting out of context" for not
publishing all the emails.
\- The above quotes are (already) included at:
\- The above quotes are included at:
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA
The only psb-pburo email not included
there is one sent to me after the above
quote [and thus arguably not relevant to
assessing my state of mind and intentions
writing the above]. I certainly would
be happy to reciprocally trade your right
to "release" all of my email if I have the
same right with the pburo emails. The only
email not on the site above is this one:
From amckee@berkeley.edu Sat Oct 15 14:39:04
To: "Partha S. Banerjee
CC: politburo@csua.berkeley.edu
which ends with a post script saying he
did not give me persmission to share his
emails. which certainly was not my impression
and i leave it to the spectators to judge
that for themselves. i personally think it
was courteous for me to ask. i think i
should have unilateral right to share
email sent to me about me in his official
capacity as the csua president. So if
mr. mckee wants to "relese" me w.r.t. to
the last email, then we can truely say
the record is complete and people can make
their own decisions. --psb
\_ The decision I've made is that both psb
and amckee are idiots and should get
a life outside of motd. -neutral guy
\- i have a lot of free time during
ramadan. khudah hafiz. --psb
ramadan. --psb |
| 2005/10/16-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40120 Activity:nil |
10/16 are people really getting sorried for hurting
politburo's feelings in email?
\_ In motd. amckee sorried one person and threatened to sorry at
least one more. That was just Saturday.
\_ I'm an alumnus who has donated to the hardware fund, and likes the
MOTD the way it is, not that that seems to matter. I also just read
amckee's e-mails to psb.
- Why should I donate anymore if there really is a chance my
account could be taken away?
- Why should I donate anymore when the money is incompetently spent
on hardware that doesn't work with BSD?
- [Deleted entry about hardware purchasing incompetence and BSD,
since anyone can make that mistake. And I
appreciate all the officers' and VP's hard work.]
Sorry I missed the whole brouhaha, but some clarifying statements
from the Politburo seem in order. |
| 2005/10/16-18 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40118 Activity:kinda low |
10/16 OK, plea from me (and a lot of others, I'm sure): write what you
want to, who cares, that's the whole point, but when you've written
it, please please please just take a second to read it through and
ask yourself, "is tihs teh ghei or n0es?" I'm not asking anyone to
self-censor based on whether they write stupid shit, no matter what
they're trying to get across, but just ask yourself that quick
question. It doesn't take long, is great practice for life, and helps
save put off the point at which we reach peak byte. -John
\_ Well, amckee has mistakenly sorried one person (since remedied),
and he has threatened to sorry at least one more (me), for content
that he finds objectionable. In my case, because I quoted him
self-describing his role in the Politburo. Does this sound like a
person can "write what you want"? - tse
\_ Yes, it does. They're not sending you to fucking siberia, they're
threatening to turn off an email account. I'll write exactly
what the fuck I want until the minute they turn off my account,
and so should you.
\_ Yes, it does. The whole discussion is moronic on the scale of
galaxies (both the fact that some measures like this have been
proposed at all and peoples' reaction to them.) Look up "tempest
in a teapot." Threatening to sorrying alumni (or anyone) for
stupid shit like this is about as mature as saying "you go home
now, you can't play with my toys anymore. The only proper
reaction is to just leave. It's a fucking _account_, and if
someone doesn't want to let you play with their toys anymore,
guess what, it's a nice day outside. -John
\_ It's more than an account. Some of us old farts have been
around here for decades. soda is the occasional meetingplace
where get to poke each other and say hi. That is why CSUA has
been described as a social club as opposed to a hardcore
techie org. Nice as it is outside, I'd rather hang here and
piss off tse and psb. Feel the love!
\_ Alas, since I refused to toe the line amckee drew for me
by continuing to criticize him on MOTD, I am afraid I will
likely be sorried shortly after the next Politburo meeting.
It has been 19 years since my first cc account. I was
hoping to make it 20 before I call it quits. - tse
But at least I will be sorried following the official
process rather than at the whim of amckee. I will
probably count that as a small pyrrhic victory. - tse
\_ This is all frightfully stupid. Amckee wrote some
self-indulgent, stupid mails, psb was being difficult
as always, and the CSUA moves on. Stop being such a
drama queen. -John (only 15 years, alas.) |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40114 Activity:high |
10/16 Dear fellow working alumni. I have begun circulating a negative
networking blacklist in my company. I am making sure amckee does
not get hired. I work at Intel Corporation and I've passed the
list to my friends some who work at Yahoo and Google. They've also
begun circulating it to the HR depts in other companies as well,
including the less well know companies. Please circulate the list
throughout Silicon Valley and tell me which companies you've passed
the list to. thx. -alum of 1990, Intel Verification, SC
\_ I left Intel in 99 as an Eng7, at the age of 24, ranked
Critical Intel Asset. I'm sure your opinion, however, is
Critical Intel Asshat. I'm sure your opinion, however, is
equally valid. -amckee
\_ Hey! tjb's back! -geordan
\_ wow, intel verification AND head of HR. impressive. (not amckee)
\_ This is the reason that brett was temporarily sorried. We will
be discussing the issue on Monday. The decision will be at the
discretion of the full politburo, not just me. As much as you
may disagree with my opinions, this grossly oversteps what is
an acceptable response to having such a difference of opinion.
I'm less concerned with the affect that this has on me, my
resume speaks for itself, but most politburo are just undergrads,
CS students who just signed up to have fun and learn a bit about
running a group. They should never feel that, should they try
to implement a controversial decision, that they could be
subjected to such a grossly intimidating and caustic repurcussion.
This may be acceptable in 'real politics', but we're just students,
and this is just a student organization. The palor of fear that
this will cast over politburo will prevent it from enacting
decisions that may be necessary for its survival, however
controversial. Should students know that this might happen,
the even worse affect is that it might prevent them from even
joining the ranks of politburo. This action very realistically
threatens the success of the organization and the stability
of the politburo. We are not a full political body, we are
not your senators, your representatives, or your president. We
should never have to deal with this level of intimidation. Call
it censorship, call it draconian, call it what you will - but
we live in an insular world and these are not things that most
students should have to face. -amckee
\_ Anyone making a serious squish decision based on an external
web site, esp. one that is known to be sucky, is an idiot.
\_ it looks like you've been successfully trolled.
\_ Those with an opinion on this matter, or any matter, are always
welcome to attend politburo meetings. We give more weight to
the concerns of current students, admittedly, but we will take
your insight into consideration. Many of you have faced problems
similar to the ones we've faced, and constructive feedback and
wisdom is always welcome. For those that have a personal problem
with me, the appropriate way to deal with that is by talking to
me. I suspect our differences are not nearly as great as
the emotion of this motd indicates. Sorry for being long again,
John. -amckee
\_ I don't think John's point is about length but more to do with
succintness. -mice
\_ Upon speaking with Brett, this is not attributable to him. kchang's
logs were wrong, probably not an uncommon occurance. Part of why
I had not brought this to the MOTD was that I wanted to hear
from Brett. However, someone else felt it important to mention here.
I have unsorried him and am sorry for any inconvenience. However,
as a point of clarification for whomever did post this, the damage
you felt that I may have done to the CSUA is far diminished by the
extent of your actions. I'll only be in office for another couple
months, and other officers may have different opinions. However,
the real 'cultural shift' in the CSUA is now almost certainly
attributable to you. If your goal was to supress dissent, to coerce
agreement, and to bully your view into an organization that you
are no longer a part of - you have likely succeeded. Politburo
may no longer feel comfortable enacting certain decisions. At a
minimum, we now know better than to try and explain ourselves
and our views, as it just opens us up to personal attacks and
retribution. This will be the last post I make to the MOTD, it's
\_ Can I have your stuff? -geordan
just not worth it to me to fight with you. I fully welcome
the insight and opinions people have about how we're running this
organization, but it will be more effective if you can come to
a meeting or email us. This has turned into a gossip-fueled hate
fest, and right now I feel pretty ashamed to have anything to do
with this organization. The optimism I had in trying to find ways
to make student's lives here a bit better is rapidly fading, and
if all that's going to happen is that they're going to grow up
into people anything at all like the minority of you who have
made this such an evil place, then I just don't see the purpose.
Good luck with your MOTD. -amckee
\_ Haven't you threatened to sorry people because of their
emails to politburo? That sucks.
\_ For the record, I did not write the above posting. -brett
\_ He did (or "didn't do" as it turns out) something so horrible it
was necessary to sorry him before getting his side of the story?
\_ Man, amckee is serious about this sorry business. He
threatened to sorry me when he thought I quoted his infamous
self-portrayal as "resident foobar". BTW, it's not likely
I'll be in a position to hire amckee (I don't hire sw guys
in general, though I might for dv I suppose), but I would
certainly advise against hiring if his name crossed my desk.
From my personal dealings with him (just one logged write
conversation, to be fair), he seems to have problems
controling his temper and he's probably a pain to work
with. - tse
\_ Wow, this is really lame. Whomever did post it needs to get a
brain. I mean, are you trying to force motd logging? --PM
\_ PM: I think the actual lesson here is different. I bet many
people are silently thinking "I would not want to hire this
guy based on his writings" without putting those thoughts into
the MOTD. And this the the guy who wants us to "trust him"
over the judicious use of the anonymity logs?
\_ Well, amckee is trying to portray this as alums threatening
the politburo, but I think it's just amckee. There's enough
from MOTD and from his emails to hang him.
\_ What triggered amckee's temper tantrum? Just Partha's
ramblings?
\_ I'd bet dollars to donuts that's *exactly* what OP is trying to
do. |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40113 Activity:low |
10/16 So when do we start the underground rebel motd?
\_ http://csua.org/motd ? |
| 2005/10/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40111 Activity:nil |
10/14 Michael Rauser <mrauser@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote on csua@csua
: I apologise for the recent spam to csua@csua. It is intended as a news
: mailing list (minutes, official announcements, etc.) and not as a
: discussion forum. I have altered the list to make it moderated, requiring
: posts to be approved before going out to the full list.
\_ This is a marked and until now unannounced change in the nature
of csua@csua. When was advance notice given of this change of
csua@csua to a moderated list? --Jon
\_ The ua part of the 'csua' title means that the undergrads
don't need to get permission from alum for everything.
--darin
\_ "It's [the CSUA] not a democracy. We're democratically
elected, but once in office we have near complete
authority to implement the policies that we see
fit. Think communist russia ..." -amckee, CSUA President
\_ and if it's not obvious, the above was not posted
by me and was taken out of context. thx psb. -amckee
\_ Could you explain how the quote was taken out of
context?
\_ This is the organization that was left to us by our
faithful alumni. We do not have a congress, a judiciary
system, or any vestiges of democracy within the typical
power structure. Quite honestly, I'm not aware of any
student group here that's run differently. At some
point in the past, the CSUA was your organization to
run and shape as you saw fit. I'm sure you each had
issues that you felt were important to deal with,
things that needed to be chanrged relative to
tradition, and so forth. I'm sure each of you also
would have resented it had a group of people who have
no awareness of the current organization's culture and
needs kept expecting deferrence to their ideas and
beliefs about how the organization should be run. The
students, at some point, trusted you to run the
organization to the best of your abilities. Right now,
the students trust us to do that. We may fuck up, we
may piss people off, but these are our mistakes to make
- just like they were yours, at one point. We care
about the alumni community and feel that they
contribute a lot that is valuable to the CSUA, but our
charter is clearly the service of current
undergraduates. We would love to make alumni happy, but
as i'm sure each of you can see from these threads,
that's obviously impossible. In the end, we will always
chose the path that we think is in the best interest of
current students. I'm sure you each would have expected
the same, when you were students. As it is, this server
is barely utilized by current students. This issue has
comprised probably 50+ manhours of politburo time -
time that has directly detracted from what we could
have been doing to help out current students. We
continue to spend thousands of dollars on this
hardware, when the main reason it needs upgrading is to
cater to the ever growing alumni ranks. The donations,
sadly, are a far way from making this environment
self-supporting. Quite simply, this whole server
infrastructure costs this organization more in terms of
time and money than current students reap from it.
Again, we do care to keep a close alumni community, but
a bit more appreciation of the efforts we go to would
also be nice. And a bit of understanding that, this
really is -our- organization right now, to make better
or to fuck up, as it once was yours. We welcome your
insight, but we really resent the sense of entitlement
that many of you think we owe you. That alumni have
accounts here is at the generosity of the CSUA, and
directly against UC Berkeley policies. There is no
current desire to change this generosity, but a bit of
perspective on your part would be nice. We don't owe
you explanations of changes we make to our boxes, we
don't need need to justify every decision we make. When
we do, it's because we value your insight and wisdom,
but don't expect it to be binding. I know many of you
disagree strongly with our choices, but the students
have entrusted us to shepherd this organization and you
just have to trust that we have the best interests of
the CSUA at heart, even if you disagree with our
actions. -amckee
\_ Ok uhm yeah. So anyway, if the ever growing ranks of
alums are a burden, how about just booting them all?
If the number of current students is low, how much
active recruiting does the CSUA do these days? Do
they still do donut runs at project times? Sponsor
and advertise tournament events? Go into freshman
classes at the start of each semester and tell the
gathered hordes the CSUA exists and why they should
join? And once these people join, well, uhm, to be
blunt, what do they get from the CSUA anyway? I see
two things from out here in alum-land: fantastic
tech help/tips from top notch industry pros from a wide
variety of fields and access to jobs they'd otherwise
never hear about, much less skip HR and go straight to
a hiring manager. Passion is good. Directed passion
is better. I assume everyone gave some pretty speach
prior to being elected to politburo full of promises.
Did any of that stuff happen? Mission accomplished?
Honestly, I don't actually really care all that much
about any of this stuff but let's get some perspective.
\_ Yes, we do donut runs (as do other groups now),
yes we go into classes at the start of the term,
yes we do helpsessions and shill our name, and
yes the ranks are still low. The current breed of
CS student is unlike what you were used to - many
are completely apathetic about student groups,
many don't identify as CS nerds, and many haven't
even watched Monty Python. It's a mainstream
field now and the people here have a lot less in
common than the CS nerds did when I was younger
(I'm 30 and started with this whole internet/cs
stuff over 20 years ago) I do not doubt at all
\_ Are you related to
Trevor J. Buckingham?
that students -could- leverage a lot from alumni,
but right now they don't. They don't read motd,
they don't really use Soda, and mostly they just
come to our free food events. It's a problem that
many politburos recently have had to face. We
welcome suggestions, of course, but things are
definitely different than they used to be. People
join now to hang out on our couches, use our
office/lab machines, and make friends. I'm trying
to bring in more speakers (hopefully some alumni)
to try and give various talks. Hell, maybe a
panel of people that graduated 10 years ago could
come back and talk about life after
Berkeley. Right now, though, none of this whole
mess that we call Soda or MOTD is much of a
benefit to current students. And, quite frankly,
that's unlikely to change. It's just no longer
the sort of service that is necessary. The entire
login service could go away, and most people here
would never even notice. No, there are no plans
to do so, but when the politburo looks at things
to put its attention and money into, the minimal
value this -currently- offers students is a
factor. And jobs typically come into jobs@
now. Our current focus is much more on
face-to-face services, since that's the only
thing that seems of value to people now,
anyways. -amckee
\_ Whoa! I've seen what's coming into jobs@. That
is not at all the same as real jobs. An
announcement from some consultancy that they're
recruiting is *nothing* like having an alum
hand your resume to someone and say "hire this
person". If you get nothing else out of your
time at Berkeley, get this: networking is more
important than your gpa, major, or anything else.
And yes, it's true I haven't set foot in years
and I'm out of touch, but if politburo is so
in touch and active then why can't they get
other students interested? This has nothing to
do with Monty Python. I'm not even sure why
you mention that. shrug.
\_ How much more donation do you need? There is no
information as to how much is needed, how much has
been donated, what the money was spent on, etc.
No detailed accounting is being asked for here, just
a rough breakdown. Otherwise, how would we know
how much to donate. - soda donor
\_ I know I'm going to get flamed by mrauser for saying
this, but the largest issues facing the CSUA right
now are not cash related. What we need more than
money is a way to get students more involved with
their school and major, to introduce them to better
coding practices and non-academic technologies, to
provide tutoring and help to a breed of students that
may never have seen a command line - on UNIX or
Windows. Basically, we need to help build a community
of current students that is as vibrant as what those
who used to be here knew. (I still think we can do it
while acting professional and mature, but enough of
that.) I don't have the specific budget in front of
me for last year, but we requested something like
$4000 last year in hardware expenses (but received
less) and around $1000 this year (which we
received). Although the money is important and does
make it easier to buy random upgrades or components,
the bigger need is just 'more time'. New Soda has
been largely held up due to lack of this precious
resource, not cash. And, since so few current
students use this resource, it's hard to justify
spending too much time on it (for those of us in
pburo), when we could use this time to try and
coordinate speakers, corporate info-sessions,
help-sessions, etc. The better donation, in all
honest, is the wisdom, time, and insight that each of
you have - whether it's to help the root staff debug
an issue, come talk to the students about a topic
either technical or pragmatic, or basically help
foster a sense of community outside of the insular
confines of Soda and the MOTD. There hasn't been a
lot that we haven't been able to do, due to lack of
cash, but there has been a lot that we haven't been
able to do, due to lack of time. Hence the
proposition to -slightly- expand the size of the
politburo. But, to keep mrauser from killing me, we
love cash too. (cough) - amckee
\_ I had a longer post, but I suspect it was wasted
breath, so I rescued some precious motd bits. -mice
\- ms amckee suggests i did not provide sufficient
context. pls see
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA
for fuller context. "by my words you will know me".
it is odd to see the motd discussion turn into an
alumni issue. |
| 2005/10/15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40108 Activity:nil |
10/14 Many thanks to jrleek for being the catalyst for creating a
brand new era of CSUA.
\_ 2nd that. jrleek is a good man.
\_ Now lets go invade a University that had nothing to do with the
motd.
\- this is a politburo decision. do you blame PAT or BUSHCO
for the state of the country? [choosing the appropriate PAT
is left as a limited degree of freedom]. --psb |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40106 Activity:moderate |
10/15 psb: At least two out of five Politburo members are ... well,
just being undergrads. They're trying, but surely you didn't expect
anything more?
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA
\- 1. it may be unfair to tar the entire pburo
with the mckee brush. i wonder which pburo
member voted against the madness?
2. i am not sure they are "trying".
see e.g. "I honestly couldn't possibly care less about
people complaining of losing anonymity ..." -amckee
[home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/7.not-a-democracy]
[http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/7.not-a-democracy]
in case you believe i am "quoting out of context"
it was unfortune the rationale for deanonymizing
the motd was not more clearly stated and various
issues got entangled [such as the liability issue
and the unwelcoming environment/participation issue]
but the the csua president can justly be taken to
task for framing it in these adventitious terms
and attacking the out-to-lunch, spoiled, overly-
indulged, narrow-minded, self-interested alumni.
3. so i dont expect overly deep thinking about
say free speech in the abstract, but crazy stuff
like "psb is a notorious spammer and hoser for
mailing the csua mailing list about a political
matter" seems just nuts. deeper into some of the
threads on the web directory above, you cant
help speculate what it would be like to have
ms. mckee as a colleague. i wonder if ms mckee is
a famous turntablist/bboy?
\- And I can't even imagine what it must be like to work
with someone so obviously disconnected from reality
and rational thinking. Yes, making the MOTD trackable
is MADNESS. Crazy! OoOOooH! Halloween! Bats! Scary shit!
Are you even capable of perspective? I'm afraid you're
the one that sounds 'out to lunch'. But please, feel
free to libel me. I'd love nothing more than than have
an excuse to remove you on sufficient 'legal' grounds
to make even you happy. =) Have a nice day, I'm done
with talking to you ms. banerjee. I'm sure your friends
over at slashdot could use some of your attention.
\- you know, i probably read slashdot less
than 95% of the people reading this.
isnt ./ sort of focused on AssOS?
\- Well, I began to wonder about this when you wrote:
"[mrauser]s more level headed and egalitarian than
I am. My opinion is much more admittedly
draconian. I'm used to being a corporate manager
and overseeing teams of 30+ engineers scattered
across the world. That doesn't exactly work with
the consensus view of management, so I go for
autocratic. (It's okay, you can say it, I'm used
to being the resident asshole on the team - but at
least shit gets done.)"
[again, context is at:
home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/7.not-a-democracy]
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Articles/CSUA/7.not-a-democracy]
BTW, I appreciate your letting me quote this thread.
It makes things much easier. |
| 2005/10/15-16 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:40103 Activity:kinda low |
10/15 Whatever happens with the motd debate, someone made a point below
that I hope doesn't get lost:
" If you get nothing else out of your time at Berkeley, get this:
networking is more important than your gpa, major, or anything else. "
I just wanted to put this up as a really valuable piece of advice, and
I hope undergrads take it to heart. If you're going into "the real
world", this is very true most of the time. -John
\_ Thanks. --Wrote that anon but since it was anon it must be a troll
and should be dismissed out of hand. ;-)
\_ Out of the four jobs I've had in the last 8 years, all of them were
at least partly attributable to networking. -mice
\_ This is true. I got my excellent first job thanks to networking,
and I got 2 sodans jobs because I knew them. -eric
\_ yeah. I've gotten every job I've had because of networking,
and most of my freelancing work comes from soda or ex-coworker
contacts. I wish I'd known this when I was in college, I
would have done things a lot differently, i.e. going to
professor office hours starting my freshman year, going to
more student events, etc. |
| 2005/10/14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40090 Activity:nil |
10/14 So, amckee and mrauser think that a csua web forum would be a good
idea. If fact, they think it would surpass the motd in
popularity. I disagree because CSUA discussion forums don't have
much draw. There's no theme except that all the people on them
are CSUA members. However, what if we had a web forum and the
subjects of the current active threads were displayed on login
(as the motd used to be)? We could even have them display on the
lounge machines on login as xterm as an ad to join the CSUA.
-jrleek
\_ They have valid points. Kids today don't value their CS accounts
like the old farts. They prefer to use yahoo, gmail, POP3, and
what not, bypassing motd completely. Secondly, motd has been
in a steadily declining state ever since paolo disabled
"more /etc/motd.public" for default .login. Most of the new
soda users don't even know about wall or motd. I predict the
death of wall and motd within 5 years. With new user monitoring
mechanism in place, it may even speed up the process. Your goal
to make motd more civil is a very noble goal, and I completely
support it. However, unless you want to see motd dying, you
should also concentrate your efforts on getting new members.
\_ I agree with you, but politburo doesn't. I've already had
the "let's make the motd display on login again"
conversation with them 2 or 3 times. So, the above was my
attempt at a compromise. -jrleek |
| 2005/10/14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40082 Activity:very high |
10/13 I asked a bit earlier how many of you angry motd-ers are actual CSUA
\_ Who's angry? This is a non-issue. The CSUA politburo should do
whatever the active CSUA members (i.e. enrolled undergrads) vote
to do. We're just excercising the privilege of the ancient to
smirk condescendingly on the sillinesses that the puppies come
up with :-) -John
voters. I am guessing very few are. The reality is this is not your
machine, and this is not your organization, anymore. The current
students in charge are free to run things however they wish. As
someone so bluntly put it below, "the decision stands and is not
debatable". I do find it amusing that after all the alum donations
to spiff up the place, we are then told off so cavalierly.
\- raising the matter of "are you a current ucb
undergrad" might be relevant if the issue was
about voting or representation, but if it is
about ideas, and they are making reasonable
points rather than just claiming "i am older
and smarter; you are young and naive" then
you should ignore where they ideas are coming
from but just address the ideas themselves
if they have merit. if the values of the
older members are that much out to lunch
how can you justify operating under a consitution
hardly changed from somethign they wrote ...
or are you claiming they somehow had your values
when in school but then become unmoored and
unhinged upon leaving the evans/sloda/cory environs.
\_ I don't know, another question worth asking is "How many of the
angry motd-ers donated?" I did, and I pretty much agree with
\_ "Did you donate?" is the CSUA's "you haven't served" -John
\_ Of course, "you haven't served" is occasionally also the
CSUA's "you haven't served". -gm
politburo. Although, actually, perhaps a different experiment
would be interesting. Part of the problem currently is the
anonymity differential. Things only got really nasty around
jblack when kchang's diff exposed who it was posting the
freeper links. Then some blow hard starting harrasing him
anonymously. If anonymity had been guaranteed, at least THAT
wouldn't have happened. -jrleek
\_ Check your crystal ball again, that wasn't my post. The decision
\_ mea culpa
was debated extensively (see the pages upon pages in the minutes)
and it saddens me that the anonimity was abused so badly that it
will help to remove it. I won't monitor you if you want to make
your own world writable ~myname/sleezepit.motd where you can
slander, insult and threaten as you please. I think the csua
motd should be a place where people can post and not be completely
hounded. When exactly did you donate by the way? -mrauser
\- what is the rationale for not monitoring ~myname/sleezepit.motd
but monitoring /etc/motd? --psb
\_ If you really need to ask this you are SO dense. Why do
you think I would possibly want to be responsible for
hateful comments on the csua's message of the day? You
should probably just go think on it, this isn't worthy of
a response. -mrauser
\- ok i am a moron. tell me how you will deal with the
following: Anonymous A challenges john@soda
to a GUN DUEL in ~psb/motd.sleaze. Then PSB posts
"Hey John has been challeneged to a GUN DUEL in
~psb/motd.sleaze!" to the motd.public ... this is
either signed by psb or "discovered" to be psb
via the motd.log. questions presented:
1. is psb liable for something? if so, what?
is he reponsible for the threat or just running
a non-anonymous forum for thraets? so if psb could
find the original threatener A, is he then ok?
or is he guilty of helping out the threat?
if psb is guilty for helping ut the threat by cross
posting it, then isnt something who doesnt delete
an obnoxious comment in the motd also responsible
for "helping to spread disharmony on sloda"?
\_ hello, in the context of a threat you may
not be liable [ not 100% sure, maybe there
is some way to argue accomplice/conspiracy ]
in the context of defamation you could be
liable b/c you republished.
2. does the politburo not feel responsible in this
case since the official motd only contains a
POINTER to the inflammatory content?
3. maybe i am a moron, but it seems if the reason to
for the heavy handed intervention is stop threats
then this should extent to any reasonable public
forums on sloda. it certainly seems like i should
not even be allowed to advertise my evil motd in
the official sleaze free zone. although if i am not
allowed to post my pointer to ~psb/motd.sleaze, i have
to ask can i post a link to http://sleaze.psb.org with
the exact same discussion? ... so it IS ok to post a
"sleazy pointer" as long as it points out of CSUA
space? if that is not fine either, why is it
permissable to post offensive links at all?
again what is the criteria of "bad" ... offensive/
obscene? child porn? emotionally damaging comments?
[like calling somebody a clown? what if you like
clowns?] physical threats? what if i just post
"i would like to meet you in a boxing ring"?
\_ Partha, it's "GUN DUEL", not "a GUN DUEL". -John
\- funny you should say that. --psb |
| 2005/10/14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40079 Activity:high |
10/14 Dear Politburo:
I'd like to request that in the future, ALL the names of donors be
made public as to minimize the potential conflict of interest in the
future. Currently things go on in csua and we don't know anything
about it until decisions are already made. There needs to be
accountability via public auditing. Please make the donation and
financing information public. Until that happens, there is no more
donations from me. I ask all donors to do the same. Thanks.
-alum who donated $200, you know who I am
\_ How donations worked at my last job was that a donor could
specifically ask to be anonymous. Otherwise names could be used
in print. It seems in bad taste to print amounts, unless a
donation is particularly large and merits special appreciation.
That can be done in other ways, however, such as including some-
thing like, "Donations from these members were particularly
generous, and deserve extra appreciation."
\_ This is in the process, the only reason I don't have logs readily
availible is that I have been backlogged on work. In the future
there will be a mechanism to more easily see the status of csua
finances. In regard to disclosing the names of donors, I'm not
sure that will be the policy, but I think we can disclose the
amounts of each donation (along with all the other money
allocations). -mrauser
\- dear op: you should post "i donated" to the motd and then
get somebody to complain and then have that motd entry
deanonymized. mrauser: so what is the rationale to have
donation be anon by default but have the motd entries be
non-anon.
\_ MOTD: Public forum
Donation: Private funds
As mrauser said below, the reason we don't post donator
information is that we do not want any of this to turn into
a "my opinion is more important because I donated more" war.
\_ Why not? Seems like an excellent fundraiser--
provided you don't make any actual guarantees of
letting someone's opinion matter more. After all,
isn't this how the US congress and senate work?
If it's good enough for them why not for the CSUA?
--PeterM
When we finally bring Soda Mark VII live and I send out the
grand email announcing such, I will post the names of those
who donated, but I will not post amounts. - jvarga
\_ This being the most I have posted to the motd in a day...
ever, I'm going to be brief. When there are monitary things
involved, I would rather err on the side of anonimity. I
wouldn't want a "who's donation is bigger" war, and there is
no need at all for the public to know WHO donated. Its not
meant to be a blame game or a "I've donated so my opinion
matters" situation. Thats my rationale for donations being
not freely publicly disclosed (exactly why do you need to
know who donated?). As for reasons why the motd would be
non anonymous, read the minutes, but we wish to discern
who posts overt threats on our motd. -mrauser
\- are you suggesting it would be censure-worthy for
a donor to say "i donated $x" publicly [say in the motd
or wall]? how about chowing all the binaries in /csua/bin
lest somebody try to throw his weight around because they
installed COOL SOFTWARE on sloda? maybe we should make it
illegal to keep WALL WARRIOR stats in case new users
should fall under the pernicious influence of top
WALL WARRIORS. maybe they will SELL THEIR VOTES in return
for ANCIENT WALL WARRIOR SECRETS. |
| 2005/10/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:40063 Activity:very high |
10/13 Now that we're making a user-tracking, totalitarian motd in the
future, I want to use all the remaining freedom to insult people.
Whoever proposed this idea, fuck you. Paolo is an ass and
all heil German John. Viva la libertarian-style motd!!!
\_ What is wrong with root having a way to track who posted what when
someone complains about inappropriate behavior on the motd? Why is
everyone complaining? The fact that Politburo has had to make the
decision to put a system in place to keep a log is not a symptom of
a "totalitarian regime," but rather a forum where people's blatant
disrespect for each other caused a problem that had to be addressed.
You will still have your anonymity so you can troll away at each
other, but root will finally have the ability to look at a private
log IF AND WHEN the need arises to take care of issues that get out
of hand. No one will be monitoring the log, lording over you with
the wiggling finger. Life will continue on as normal. But finally,
those anonymous cowards who use unconventional motd posting means to
threaten others will have to check themselves knowing that if they
make a real threat and someone complains, that there will be
judgment on their not-so-anonymous self. The only people
complaining about root having logs are those who are the people
doing the threatening and are worried that they cannot continue to
do so anonymously. Get a life, grow up, and be civil to each other
(insult each other all you want, we don't care. Just don't cross
the line and make real threats.). Sheesh. - jvarga
\_ The problem as I see it isn't so much the tracking mechanism,
but the vagueness of the standard for breaking anonymity in a
forum where some pretty hot-topic issues are often addressed.
I'm rather uncomfortable knowing that we are giving power to
tantrumy admins without any real limitations or clear standards
of application. Honestly, don't our stewards have more important
things to do than chase after lackwit trolls? -mice
\_ If all they're really doing is logging this shit somewhere, I don't
think it will matter. What the cowards who like censorship fail
to understand is how many of the trolls have the personality that
tends to tell people to go fuck themselves straight to their face.
Overall, I don't think the level of debate is really that much
lower here than at the national level anyway. Don't forget we
recently had the Vice President of the United States tell a
senator to go fuck himself, on record, in the senate.
\_ It isn't about trolls. Trolling is one of the 'fun' things about
anonymity. If you're going to get ballistic when someone posts a
random link you deserve what you get. I see the problem being
with people who instead of saying "fuck you" (which is just
stupid), make threats to life, limb, reputation, etc. At that
point there needs to be recourse, otherwise the CSUA is just
providing a means to attempt to ruin another person with no way
for the victim to even know who is doing it much less have a
chance of stopping it. Trolling is posting random stupid links.
Going after someone in a personal way is not trolling. That is
harassment at a minimum and shouldn't be tolerated. This comes
back to the question raised several weeks ago about fresh blood
on the motd. Why would any new person want to step into such an
environment? And why can't we have an environment better than
the rest of the net or the Senate floor, or where ever? Just
because another place sucks is no reason we have to emulate that.
\_ I think you summarised the reasoning (if not improved upon
it) during the meeting. We were thinking that it really
wasn't a constructive thing for people to be abusing the
anonimity to threaten others. This is absolutely not intended
to be a "politburo intends to be the thought police" system.
The logs will also be root-only accessible and we're toying
with putting in a system such that you need two members of
root to access them. -mrauser
\_ Just out of silly curiosity, has this happened to any serious
extent, has anyone been affected physically by this, or is
it a case of "won't someone think of the children"? -John
\_ What benefit is it to the CSUA to have the MOTD anonymous?
(Unlike pretty much every other form of electronic
communication). Is having wall logs "thinking of the
children"?
People should be accountable for what they say. -tom
\_ Do you mean, "Has anyone not gotten involved with the
motd because it is overly caustic?" If so, Yes.
\- non-anon wont solve the causticity problem
\_ Sure, but what was pp asking?
\_ No, has anyone been attacked/gotten in a fight/whatever,
because of what was said on the motd and complained, or
or has the CSUA been told off by a roving gang of UC
lawyers, or is this just a case of "well no, but it
_could_ happen"? Is there a binding definition of
"harassment" from any authority that governs the CSUA?
I'm just curious... -John
\_ People no longer post here. Isn't that enough? How
many more have to be chased off? Just because they
didn't file some sort of 'official' complaint with
politburo, it is ok they left after enough abuse?
Why does someone have to be beaten with a bat for
it to matter?
\_ I seem to recall people complaining about and
leaving the wall too.
There can never be enough chasing. We must
chase unto the hundreds, the thousands, the
hundreds of thousands. They shall all run before
the mighty motd. Kneel before motd.
(anyway, isn't it ironic that in the jblack case,
the only reason he became a "threat target" is
that other people de-anonymized him in the first
place?)
\_ From the minutes:
"Some people want to make [motd] semi-non-anymonous.
We don't want to be in trouble with libel, slander,
threats, etc. ... the people whoa re being attacked
are not complaining about it, it's not really a
problem! the message was just a troll ... we are
sorta sanctioning this simply by keeping it there
and not responding to these kind of threats"
I read this to mean Politburo (4 out of 5) got
freaked out about the GUN DUEL references, even
though it was a troll. Could be wrong.
\_ BUD DAY doesn't like your tone.
\_ Not the gun duel, jblack hater guy
threatening anonymous harrassment and abuse.
/--/
http://csua.com/?entry=39902
I suppose it's good they haven't heard about GUN DUEL
yet ...
\_ Man, can't two consenting adults even talk about
organizing GUN DUEL without everyone getting all
freaky about it? If it was jblack hater being
a weenie, and jblack complaining, that's one thing,
but I don't seem to recall either of the parties
involved in GUN DUEL raising a stink. -John
\_ "the people whoa re being attacked are not
complaining about it ... we are sorta
sanctioning this simply by keeping it there
[etc.]"
\_ So the people who are being attacked are
not complaining. Perhaps they get the joke?
It's the freakin' motd. I barely take the
news links seriously.
\_ They complained. They up and left, duh.
Just because they didn't file an official
complaint and fill out some paper work,
you think it's ok they're not here any
more? The motd is enriched by them
leaving? Sheesh.
\_ And that benefits the CSUA...how? -tom
\_ Allows those who have a minority,
maginalized, or unpopular opinion to
speak out. Allows people to judge the
opinion separately from judging the
person. And allows yermom to accept
all the action she can take without
you feeling bad about it.
\_ We can have an anonymous motd
without the assault and abuse.
I'm totally in favor of what you're
saying right here, but I'm totally
opposed to allowing people to abuse
their anonymous privs to attack
other people. Post your troll
links, post your minority opinion,
but don't expect to get away with
direct personal threats and
assault be it virtual or physical.
\_ I don't care about user tracking as long as our stupid
libertarian stops trolling and nuking the motd.
\- anonymity enables discussion of certain topics that may not
be discussed non-anonymously. non-anonymity, as the wall
very nicely proves, will not make things warm and fuzzy. --psb
\_ The Delaware S. Ct. just ruled on the issue of anon speech
on the internet. If anyone is interested the opinion is at:
http://www.internetcases.com/library/cases/2005-10-05-doe_v_cahill.pdf
Of interest may be the cts assertion that the constitutional
rights of Internet users to speak anonymously must be
"carefully safeguarded."
\- this is about whether the sloda motd should be anonymous
or not. you can support the possibility of anon speech without
being obligated to provide a particular channel. although it
is certainly true there are blurry areas ... like can a town
deny a speech permit to somebody because it will cost thousands
of dollars in police overtime [stipulating that this isnt a
sham excuse]. does it matter whether it is an anti-BUSHCO
parade or a neo-nazi parade [see skokie case] or say a parade
to laude the virtues of IKEA or INNNOUT BURGER. i think one of
the more interesting free speech cases is PRUNEYARD v. ROBBINS.
i am not suggesting you are sugesting a legal obligation here,
but i think it is clear "the csua" can do what it wants with
the motd, just as i think it is clear it is clownheaded to
put these restrictions on the motd. now if somebody else wanted
to created /foo/bar/non-clownlike-motd-for-non-softheaded-adults
which was anonymous and "the CSUA" smacked that down without
a pretty compelling interest ... that would seem to be to be
pretty suspect.
\_ Is the politburo committed to monitoring just motd or any
world writable file which may be used for motd-like purposes?
\- i think they are committed to being clownlike. and to
AssOS 2.6, apparently.
\_ To be fair, these are a bunch of 20-year olds making
political and technical decisions. How high should
our expectations be?
\_ They are 20 yr olds at Cal; we should expect
a bit more than latest 1337est.
\_ I would guess that almost all of us were once
20-year old students at Cal. I was one too. I
think I calibrated my expectations appropriately.
And we are not moving to linux because it's the
latest l337est; we're linux because the vp
couldn't get bsd running. I calibrated my
expectations based on that too (not so much that
he couldn't get it up but rather he's unable to
determine root cause).
\_ The current VP, being completely inept in all
ways, shape, and form, did not try to get
freebsd running. He came in, did nothing, got
chastized for doing nothing, then suddenly
embarked on some sort of religious crusade of
"I'm going to try and get people to stop
calling me inept so I'm going to try and get
new soda working." I have had new soda, for
the most part, working since February. I've
had logins up, home directories mounted, and
about 90% of the other stuff working. Brett
and seidl were great and got apache and list
stuff working, and there was/is only a small
list of stuff left to do. However, despite
my monthly "this is is an explicit list of
all there is left to do that I don't know how
to do," Politburo, and the VP especially,
claim that I don't tell anyone anything.
C'mon! I explicitly said "anyone that can
help, please email me and I'll enable your
login." Instead I get amckee telling
everyone that nothing works because he cannot
log in (I never enabled his login because he
threw a temper tantrum and refused to help).
Anyway, to get back to the point, we tried
loading up new soda with Freebsd 6 this last
weekend to see if the new kernel fixes the
issues we had installing 5.3, but
unfortunately it did not. Mbh decided to load
Gentoo onto the system just to play around and
when it booted decided that he was going to
push to make Gentoo the new OS for soda since
the current system was "unusable" to him. So,
despite the page-long list of reasons that I
provided as to why changing soda to Gentoo
would be a Very Bad Thing(tm), he still wants
to go forward with it because he thinks it is
cool to compile the OS from scratch. The
\_ So it is latest 1337est! Anyway
if he really wants to do this,
why doesn't he try OpenSolaris?
At least it is meant for adults.
-curmudgeon
\_ You can compile freebsd from scratch too.
guy wants to change soda's OS and claims that
he is willing to deal with all the fun that
comes from that, when he had to ask a few
days ago how to find out when someone logged
on last. Sorry about the ventness of this
post, but I have been getting jerked around
by the inept politburo for the past 2 months,
dealing with lie after lie about me and am
trying to fight for some semblence of
rationality, but am getting tired of doing
so. - jvarga
\_ GO JVARGA GO! W00T! -John
\_ From the meeting minutes I couldn't
really figure out what the problem
was other than it won't boot.
BTW, any reason Linux was picked
instead of say OpenSolaris? A
friend of mine works on OpenSolaris,
I could probably get him to help w/
installing it, &c. over winter break.
The zones stuff could be useful on
soda.
\_ Why? They don't want your advice, and if
you are there to help, you are expected to
blindly execute their wishes. Do you
really want to be their house nigger?
\_ um? wow.
\_ If you want to create ~wierdo/sleezepit.motd in your
homedir, where you can slander, insult, and threaten
anyone your welcome to do so according to me. The
CSUA motd should be a place where new students won't
instantly be scared off by the sheer immaturity and
low level of dialogue which occurs there. -mrauser
\_ I am not suggesting that the csua will be violating any
fundamental right by monitoring the motd; the politburo
can implement whatever policy it desires. However, I
think that perhaps they should consider the fact that
some very smart people feel that anon speech is impt.
Re the suggestion that the motd scares people off - this
isn't kindergarten; students admitted to cal ought to
have sufficient critical thinking skills to identify
inanity and ignore it (including perhaps this post).
Some of us were ugs when the motd was far less civilized
AND showed up by default; if we managed to survive viewing
it on a daily basis, the current crop of kids can too.
\- on reflection it is kind of interesting that the CSUA
has not passed a policy decision that "we will be nice
on the motd" but has directly gone to considering
de-anonymizing the motd ... which should make you all
particularly nervous ... since it seems like you are
essentially relying on the "chilling effect" of being
found out to condition behavior. ok say i call somebody
a dumbass and now that can be conclusively tracked back
to me ... am i in violation of csua policy? what policy
am i in violation of? does it matter if the person i am
calling a dumbass is not offended enough to "press charges"?
what if i dont call him a dumbass but give a detail point
by point discussion why he is wrong and this ends up
being far more humiliating than a "mere" ad hominem?
are only point-to-point insults of other sloda people
fair game? what if somebody discusses outsourcing of
programmers or back office stuff and suggests (all)
indians are incompetent programmers or out to use your
private tax info for identify theft type reasons?
is that grounds to piece the veil of anonymity and
smack somebody down? if youa re not even going to entertain
the notion of the smackdown, what is the point of the
ability to deanonymize? and if the smack down is on the
table, what are the grounds. the solitary grounds i can
think possibly for a smackdown is forging a post as
the danhimal iff the danimal complains. say you call
the poliburo "clowns", how many of the pburo would it
take to mount a prosecution? 1? plurality? is it not ok
to call them clowns in the motd, but ok on the wall?
--psb
<<<<<<< Other Changes Below
=======
\_ Please don't un-anonymous the motd, my burgeoning troll farm will
wither. :( -John |
| 2005/10/3-5 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39954 Activity:nil |
10/3 A confession and an announcement. A few months ago I created
an interface that allows other people to post on the motd.
It actually started as a request from someone who said he
wants to post anonymously. The membership grew to include
two of my other friends, one who actually never even attended
Berkeley! Yes, it was an interesting experiment. However things
got more and more vicious and I finally shut down the interface
last week. I also stopped posting my own trolls as well. I regret
for posting trolls and anything mean or derogatory, and for
allowing others to do the same. I take full responsibility.
I will aaron myself after I copy a few files back to my
home machine. Thanks.
\_ Post your name when you do. -emarkp
\_ I think it's funny that this is posted anonymously.
\_ Not really. What op described is a direct violation of CSUA
policy and grounds for immediate squishing.
\_ I'm not sure an anonymous confession is a confession at
all.
\_ You should be squished insofar as your interface allowed motd
overwrites. (If you went so far as to build it, you should have
built it right, and it is possible.)
\_ So, was one of yours the jblack hater guy?
\_ You owe several people personal apologies. |
| 2005/9/29-30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39922 Activity:nil |
9/28 var is full, and I can't send mail, someone please fix it!
\_ Done. --mconst
\_ Don't rely on soda for mail.
\_ So you only use soda for the motd?
\_ I've had a soda account for a long time. Lots of legacy
shit and mailing lists and so forth. I just don't use
it for any mail I actually *need* to get.
\_ Uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh, duuuhhhhhhh. |
| 2005/9/20-22 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:39769 Activity:kinda low |
9/20 Since people don't seem to have Clue(tm) about what is going on with
csua@csua, let me explain:
With the transition to the new mailman-managed lists, politburo made
the decision that a requisite of having an account on soda is being
subjected to knowing what is going on in the organization. Therefore
we imported every user into the list. There was a mistake in that
jobs@csua was pointing at csua@csua, so everyone was getting job
spam. Well, maybe not a mistake, but a poor decision. It was
therefore decided that jobs would be an opt-out email list seperate
from csua@csua.
You should all be getting much less csua@csua spam, and can opt-out
of jobs@csua at your discretion.
- jvarga
\_ jvarga, how about turning off all alumni accounts? They're
annoying as hell. We can talk about this at TC Gardens. My treat.
\_ I'll take you up on free food, but I won't fry alumni accounts.
I am, unfortunately, out on an internship for 8 months, so I'll
take you up on this offer you have promised to me without
putting conditions on it when I get back. - jvarga
\_ I remember when I was young and could be bribed into doing
a 150 project for this hot manipulative BITCH with a cheapo
TC Garden lunch that she paid for because I thought she
liked me. ARGH!!!!!
\_ I almost got dragged into that kind of situation with 162.
At the last second I came to my senses.
At the last second I came to my senses -- but yeah -- that
girl was put together right. I think she ended up doing
*really* badly that semester since both of the people that
she tried to manipulate into her group bailed on her.
\_ Cal alumni tend to bitch a lot and contribute very little.
Look at Stanford. They have so much idling Sun Ultras
just waiting to be used or hacked. They've always had
an abundance. Then look at Cal. 30 years later we're
still bickering on the lack of resources. Sad. -1980s guy
\_ What a waste of electricity and silicon.
\_ Are you sure you're not just describing yourself or justifying
your own shortcomings with "everyone else does it"?
\_ Change begins at home. Why don't you contribute something
to the CSUA instead of bitching? - alum who donates
\_ So, a few alumni are annoying, at least by one person's
definition. So now we should use that as reason to turn off
all alumni accounts? It would seem to me that alumni
contribute more than they are annoying. Some even contribute
money.
\_ and how will the newbie maggots get a job afterward without
networking or getting input from the real world?
\_ Like you would really help anyone besides yourself anyway?
-mrauser
\_ I had a longer response but someone stomped me. I've asked
for job postings before and gotten them; I've seen jobs
advertised here by grads for both grads and ugrads; I bet
alot of the opportunities in the csua/jobs or wherever
are from grads. -mice
\_ I have hired several interns and at least 1 full time
person into my group based on reponses to job postings
on the motd or general csua contact.
\_ Go go gadget mrauser networking skills! :-) -John
\_ As was surmised, and for future reference (not that you or
the politburo should care) when you do this you should send
out an email explaining the above.
\_ I think it got lost in the confusion because Seidl (sp?) did
the actual mailman configuration. I agree it would be a good
idea to send out notice next time (like I did with jobs@csua).
-mrauser
\_ Am I allowed to opt-out of csua@csua too?
\_ No, thanks for playing. -mrauser
As a side note, if you want to use the CSUA server, you at
least have to pay some attention to CSUA events (or just
be lame and nuke them in your procmail folder, but I'm watching
you!).
\_ Simple solution to a simple problem-- just nuke every single
ungrateful alumni who never seem to be satisfied anyways. Why the
hell are they still using UC resources anyways?
\_ Opting-out a list reduces resource usage on /var/mail.
\_ Does the current 'df' situation look like I care about
resource usage on /var/mail or /home?
- jvarga
\_ the motd should be an opt-out thing too. Seriously!!
\_ It already is. Just do "touch ~/.hushlogin".
\_ Right now, MOTD is opt-in; new accounts have .hushlogin by
default. -tom
\_ And again this wasn't the case for 2 decades until a
bitch convinced her bf p**** to disable motd because
she was offended by trolls. |
| 2005/9/20-21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39763 Activity:nil |
9/20 I've had a soda account since 1993. How come I've never received any
e-mail from the CSUA mailing list until this month? I didn't even know
such a list existed. Thanks.
\_ Probably because until recently the mailing list was an opt-in
list, which probably has been changed to an opt-out list.
\_ Motd should also be an opt-out thing. It was for over 2 decades
until an idiotic root guy changed it back because his gf on
soda feels insulted by the trolls.
\_ Wow, that was a total non-sequitur. |
| 2005/9/19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39752 Activity:high |
9/19 motd boring. Where have all the flame wars gone?!
\_ Yay! Today's motd is very civil. Let's see, we've talked about
linux, sleep disorder, fedora, etc. Motd is being useful again!
As long as left wing right wing nuts stay away motd is cool.
\_ Nope, motd boring. And clearly, you love George Bush, you
fascist.
\_ And clearly, you're a left-wing nut who loves sodomy,
wears "Earth Day" clothes and actually recycles.
\_ In Nazi Germany, they didn't recycle either. |
| 2005/9/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39664 Activity:high |
9/14 Yet another motd/wall poll. Put 'a' if you're alum, 's' student:
We new blood: aa
Keep current elite members:
l33t h2x0rz: 1111111111111
\_ We don't want need blood. We love the old alumni and their
vile and harsh words. It is what makes motd the way it is.
Keep current elite members:
l33t h2x0rz: 1111111111111
\_ Why would they want to? Aren't the democraticunderground and the
freepers still taking new members? All rational discourse is long
since dead here. Even on tech questions we have people telling
others they won't answer a question because they hate the person.
Feel the love! I read but find little reason to post anymore.
\_ I've had very little trouble getting information on a number of
technical and non-technical issues. Motd has more than its share
of invective, but I do see a fair amount of 'rational discourse'.
"I'm finished, cry for my absence" announcements really do
very little to remedy the problem. It looks like they attract
invective and hostility rather than calming things down. Perhaps
you should consider modifying your behavior on this group,
finding a little more tolerance and patience, or really make
good on your nth promise to leave and actually do so. -mice
\_ It was no such thing as the "taking my ball and go home" as
you make it out to be. I've posted more today than in the
last year, nor did I sign which should show the lack of "ball
taking home"ness. In the context of "wouldn't it be nice to
have fresh blood around here?" my response is "given the
stuff that gets posted here, why would someone new want to
join in?". You're reading too much into it that isn't there.
\_ Okay, fair enough. I guess I just react harshly to
that general sort of declaration ("I don't post any
more", "ball go home" etc) since I see that frequently,
but almost never see anyone actually do it (this whole
thread would seem to attest to the fact that you do
find reason to post here, in contradiction to the
assertion). Sorry for jumping the gun on you, man.
-mice
\_ You find little reason to post anymore? Like the last 5 lines
that preceded this post?
\_ I'm not sure which 5 lines you're talking about. The motd
changes too fast.
\_ Look up "hissyfit". -John
\_ Whatever. If you think the level of discourse isn't well
beyond personal then be happy. In fact, that someone would
dare comment on the level of personal animosity on the motd
and then get a snippy comment like this in response makes
my point, thanks. And yes, go look up hissyfit. This isn't
it. This is simply my opinion backed by an example or two
that were on the motd at the time I posted.
\_ Woe is you. There are 2-3 borderline psychopaths that
post to motd (jblack hater guy and some of the other random
trolls.) Just because you were offended by some of the
idiocy you see here (grown-up versions of the nerdy little
shits with glasses who liked to tease people on the
playground because you weren't allowed to slug them)
doesn't automatically mean it's all crap. Of course you're
welcome to your opinion. -John
\_ Again, in the context of "adding fresh blood to the
motd", why would anyone new want to join in? Offended?
Nope. Somewhat disappointed that what used to be a
good place for lots of tech info on a daily basis and
heated but mostly rational political debate is much
different now. But my feelings are merely a distraction
to the point: why would anyone new want to join a
community with "2-3 borderline psychopaths" who seem to
have way too much time on their hands? Look at the
motd the way a new person might and ask yourself if
you'd want to join in conversation and community of
strangers like that. I'm *not* saying we need a policy
or enforcement of some rule or whatever. I'm only
saying exactly what I've said about new people and
nothing more.
\_ Maybe it's just me, but I think there's the occasional
interesting tech-type thread, the rare intelligent
political thread, and the pretty frequent pseudo-
anonymous chest thumping random thread that's
actually pretty funny. Too bad you see these as
turn-offs, you should join me in a contest to see
who can collect the most interesting troll
following. -John
political thread, and the pretty frequent pseudo-anonymous
\ chest thumping random thread that's actually pretty
funny. Too bad you see these as turn-offs, you should join
me in a contest to see who can collect the most interesting
troll following. -John
\_ I'll certainly admit that you've got some
interesting ones, John. I think ilyas has some
pretty good ones, too. -mice
\_ Right now I only have heil cherman john guy and
some random occcasional others. I tried to
cultivate chicom troll, but he proved too
wild to tame. Our loss. -John
\_ Either you're so brilliant that you find
intelligent things hidden in the motd, or I'm
so dumb that I find motd to be stupid. Or maybe
Beir trinke Krauts like you find anything
stupid to be funny. I do like the link you
post though, they're always of quality, like
the German cars. Oh, and learn to fucking
conform to 80 columns you Scheiße
\_ What is Beir? Is that Israeli? -John
\_ "why would anyone new want to join [motd], a community with 2-3
borderline psychopaths"
My answer is simple. Because these psychopaths are bored and
lonely and need to meet new psychopaths who are just like them
\_ Because anonymous psychopaths are damned funny. |
| 2005/9/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39656 Activity:low |
9/13 Anthro professor investigated student life by becoming a student:
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2005/09/13/freshman_year/index.html
'In the book, I look at things that the university says it wants to
focus on. They say, "We're a community of scholars, we're a community
of diversity, we're about intellectual life." That's what the
university thinks it is. From what I saw, the student's version of
these concepts is very different.'
\_ oh gawd, not to criticize necessarily, but did anyone else find this
really boring? basically: students at fourth-tier university don't
like to give the impression that they're studying hard so they're
not branded as nerds/overachievers, they care more about grades than
learning anything, they take loans to pay for tuition/housing, and
part-time jobs to pay for iPods and random entertainment crap.
\_ FWIW, Berkeley students are exactly the same way - only
difference I can see is that Mommy and Daddy usually pay for the
iPod and the random entertainment crap.
\_ I didn't find a lot of Berkeley students to be particularly
wealthy, spoiled, or coddled. Some were. It's nothing
like private school, though. You should see the kids at
the private liberal arts colleges. I found UCB students
to be harder-working and less-privileged than many.
Addendum: I found a lot of academic, political, and
philosophical discussion at UCB. I submit the MOTD as an
example. That the professor thinks her students and those
at Yale aren't much different is what makes an NAU
professor and a Yale professor different.
\_ Ditto. For all the extremism and stupidity I was extremely
impressed by the general character of the people I was at
Cal with. FWIW, in the "real world" I've also generally
found the above to be peoples' view of Berkeley. -John |
| 2005/9/7 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39551 Activity:high |
9/7 Can the liberal and conservative over-writers PLEASE stop doing it?
Your scp/ftp-provided anonymity isn't that important to both of you
is it?
\_ use motdedit, right?
\_ even if you don't use motdedit, even vi, jove, or emacs
will stop you from an accidental overwrite
\_ motdedit is a tool of the fascist/socialist overlord
root masters to subjugate the masses under their iron
root masters to subjugate the massess under their iron
booted fists! motd anarchist overwriters of the world
unite! you have nothing to loose but other ppls posts!
\_ And proper spelling!
\_ sp3lling is a t007
of the white male
$indow$ overlord
0ppre550rz! que5t1on
4uthor17y! sp34k
1337! RUN L1NUX!
R1D3 B1K3!
Boredcast Message from 'tom': Wed Apr 14 20:47:08 1993
Nick, *just yesterday* I corrected you when you spelled it wrong
twice in a row. It's not dyslexia, or typos, it's you being a
thick-skulled dimwit. One O in 'lose' as it relates to the Bad News
Bears. Two O's in 'loose' as it relates to your mom.
\_ sp3lling is a t007 of the white male $indow$ overlord
0ppre550rz! que5t1on 4uthor17y! sp34k 1337! RUN L1NUX!
R1D3 B1K3! PL4Y N377RE3K!
0ppre550rz! qu35t10n 4uthor17y! sp34k 1337! RUN L1NUX!
R1D3 B1K3! PL4Y N3TTR3K! |
| 2005/9/6-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39527 Activity:nil |
9/6 Did ilyas really challenge John to a gun duel, and then say he was
leaving motd because it had turned into soda wall?
Someone please tell me it was someone posing as ilyas who wrote that,
or that he was totally kidding.
\_ John, I challenge you to a gun duel. Are you scared? -- ilyas
\_ Come get some. You're right, I'm craven because I
don't go seek out random scrawny geeks I've never met
who challenge me to GUN DUEL on the soda motd. Do you
challenge people to GUN DUEL often, Ilya? -John
\_ http://csua.com/?entry=39490
People like ilyas and John are making motd as dirty as wall.
This is the reason why politburo disabled motd for newbies.
\_ No. It was a troll.
\_ So ilyas was trolling John about the gun duel?
\_ No. I think it was a third person acting as a poser troll.
\_ What do you mean "I think"? Either you know (because
you're ilyas, the troll himself, or ilyas told you) or
you don't know.
\_ You're getting waaaay too worked up about this, man.
\_ Don't change the subject.
So does the guy know or is he just guessing?
\_ He knows.
\_ Okay, it's cleared up by the URL.
ilyas posted that it wasn't him but a troller.
For the record, ilyas did not aaron himself,
did not challenge John to a gun duel.
For the record, ilyas did not challenge John
to a gun duel.
"No. It was a troll." guy could have saved
a lot of trouble by posting something to
that effect and/or the URL earlier.
\_ Uhm, that rather assumes I'm willing to go
to the effort on your behalf. Considering
the nature of the whole thing, that's just
...odd.
\_ "A lot of trouble"? Didn't cause me any
trouble at all. *shrug*
\_ no duh.
\_ You're taking this all too seriously.
Trust me, it's not worth the energy.
\_ See URL to confirm that, for the record, it was someone posing
as ilyas. ilyas did not challenge John to a gun duel.
Someone please tell me it was someone posing as ilyas who wrote that,
or that he was totally kidding.
\_ It was a poser troll, so be of good cheer.
\_ That was an imposter. Ilyas always uses motdedit, a mechanism that
KAIS MOTD logs very well. The duel post shows that whoever posted
as ilyas, did not use motdedit.
\_ It was a poser troll, so be of good cheer.
\_ You sure he "always" uses motdedit? I thought he used vi all
the time and merged in changes where he could.
\_ John, I challenge you to a gun duel. Are you scared? -- ilyas
\_ Come get some. You're right, I'm craven because I
don't go seek out random scrawny geeks I've never met
who challenge me to GUN DUEL on the soda motd. Do you
challenge people to GUN DUEL often, Ilya? -John
\_ You sure he "always" uses motdedit? I thought he used vi all
the time and merged in changes where he could.
\_ ilyas appears to have aaroned himself.
\- ilyas stayed in the sauna too long. he is going to challege
john in the russian style of naked sauna wrestling. |
| 2005/9/4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39480 Activity:high 66%like:39476 66%like:39484 |
9/3 Cheney RIP. -- ilyas
\_ Btw, if another cocksucker modifies my post, I ll nuke the entire
motd like in the old days. -- ilyas
\_ Libertarianism in action! The motd is an anarchist paradise.
Done worry, be happy and retaliate like a small child.
\_ Don't worry, the cocksucker in question is running a
'no-shrink script.' -- ilyas
\_ Btw, if another <bleep> modifies my post,
I ll nuke the entire motd like in the old days. -- ilyas
\_ Sorry, wasn't it Judge Rehnquist who passed away? -chaos
\_ yes, psb thinks it's clever to change ilyas' post, and
ilyas thinks deleting the motd "punishes" psb in some
way. What a pair of losers. -tom |
| 2005/8/25-26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39272 Activity:low |
8/25 Trying to follow threads on motd is confusing. In particular, I
have no idea who the "pp" is refering to (like, what level of
thread to go up to refer to the pp). Anonymous posting is good,
but it'd be even better if you guys can stick to an alias.
That way, it's easier to follow threads without having to guess
who the poster was and what he stood for. -alias
\_ A consistent alias combined with KAIS motd would pretty easily
destroy anonymity. KAIS motd probably has a good guess about
who wrote this post. --not-really=anonymous
\_ How about consistent alias wrt the post, but not the entire
lifetime of the poster? That'll be nice. -alias
\_ Someone once suggested using hex numbers for exactly this
purpose. I thought it was a good idea, but no one actually
did it. -- 0x1
\_ Who are you!?
I am number 0x2.
Who is number 0x1?
You are number 0x6.
I am not a number, I am a free man!!
Haaaahaahahahahahaaaa!!!
\_ NEEEEERDDDDSSSSS!!!!!!
\_ If you were not also a nerd, you wouldn't know what
I was talking about. -0x6
\_ Good point! -- 0x1
\_ Ok. So who are you, really? -alias
\_ KAIS motd is a piece of shit and whoever wrote it needs to
get squished and die because it violates the spirit of
saying whatever I want on motd. -kais hater |
| 2005/8/17-22 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Jblack, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39158 Activity:low |
8/17 Did Al Gore say it? Or was it the Unabomber?
http://www.crm114.com/algore/quiz.html -jblack
\_ Either you sign your name, or it gets deleted. Since you're so
persistent and tried to repost the same trash at exactly 19:02,
23:40, 23:57, so on and so forth, I've done you a favor and signed
for you. God Bless. -god
\_ [self-deleted for further investigation] -- ilyas
\_ Hey look politburo, root abuse! -- ilyas
\_ when sys admins attack...
\_ Hey look politburo, root abuse! The only people with soda root
I don't know are dlong, erikk and brett. erikk hasn't been on
since Monday. So, ... I am fairly sure it's one of the remaining
two who is abusing. At least one current root agrees with me
this kind of root usage constitutes abuse. Incidentally, where
are all the fuckers who were calling for my squishage due to
motd deletions? Cat got your tongue? Or is this one of those
'nuanced situations' I keep hearing about? -- ilyas
\_ [self-deleted pending further investigation] -- ilyas
\_ I sure hope you're not *abusing* root for something as stupid
as the motd. Which reminds me, just how many people have root?
It shouldn't be more than Politburo. With power comes
responsibility, etc.
\_ Arguably, it shouldn't be (all of) politburo. Arguably,
not even VP _needs_ root (we've had some severely
non-technical VPs in the past)
\_ I don't know, some allumni who have root are very
important to keeping everything running and helping out
new VPs. mconst and njh come to mind.
\_ Forgive my density, but what about the post above indicates
sb with root was involved? -- ulysses
\_ It's freakin' soda, fool. Root abuse is their only perk.
\_ Don't be lame. "It is soda so we have no standards" is
idiotic.
\_ when sys admins attack...
\_ It's not like FreeRepublic embraces everyone, you know.
\_ Which has exactly *nothing* to do with root abuse on soda.
\_ You didn't sign your name, and I don't like what you're
saying, AND I think you're a jerk. Should I delete your
post?
\_ There's not a single mention of "internet"? Wow.
\_ boring |
| 2005/8/5-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:39015 Activity:moderate |
8/5 Jvarga, don't listen to the flaming idiots. Most people in the CSUA
appreciate what you are doing, even if not all your decisions are
perfect. In particular, I would ignore tom, whose only purpose in
life is to piss on other people's work while contributing nothing
of his own. Thank you for contributing your time and effort to the CSUA.
-- ilyas
\_ gee, thanks ilyas. now take your foot out of your mouth, since
I'm not one of the people flaming jvarga. Fuckwad. -tom
\_ I thought your 'commentary' on jvarga was, if not outright
flaming, pretty abrasive (this is on wall). The problem is,
your abrasiveness is such a part of your personality, you
don't even notice when you are like it anymore, it seems
normal to you. -- ilyas
\_ what, where I compared NIS as a possibly questionable
technical decision, to paolo being a complete fucking
idiot? And where I said he was doing better than the
last N VPs? -tom
\_ Tom, I am sorry, I misread what you were saying.
-- ilyas
\_ Hey tom, which of jvarga's actions were "fucking idiotic"?
In all the time I've used soda so far (since 1998 or so),
jvarga seems to be the friendliest and most active csua
official ever. Well in terms of soda, I dunno wtf goes on
with the actual, you know, group stuff. But in general
insulting someone who is helping our asses for free makes
you the fuckwad.
\_ Read it again. I was calling paolo a fucking idiot, not
jvarga. -tom
\_ oh, I guess ilyas had me going. ilyas is back to
fuckwad for the day.
\_ He is NOT a Jew, so he has no credibility. -jew #1
\_ I agree, maybe not about tom, but running soda is a tough job,
and I appreciate all the work that is going into it. --jwm
\_ I would say, you're doing it for free, thanks.
Nothing's perfect, but if shit starts breaking that used to work,
we're coming for you, jvarga! Is that fair?
\_ What is to not agree about tom? Everything ilyas says is
correct or has been proven to be correct in general. He
hates everything, and replies "this sucks" to everything
we do. Take the google/housing map for example.
\_ Tom can be very abrasive, agreed. But I wouldn't say
"[his] only purpose in life is to piss on other people's
work while contributing nothing of his own." Those of us
that have a long history with the CSUA know this isn't true.
\_ No matter what someone has done for the CSUA, that is
*never* an excuse to mistreat another human being.
\_ DUde! It's a GREAT excuse to mistreat a human being!!1!
I can't think of a better reason to kick the walker out
from under some old lady in the middle of an
intersection! "I gave $100 to the CSUA....BITCH!!!
<whap!>" Goddamn, now I feel like donating to the
CSUA again.....
\_ Fine, we can't agree that tom's an asshole. Let's try
to agree on something else, like, iff CSUA were run
like Survival the TV show, then tom would be the first
to be voted out. Can we agree on that?
\_ Actually, I'd vote your ass off first, since tom
has actually done something more useful than whine like
a little puppy.
\_ Tom has actually given quite alot of good technical
advice here. He may be caustic at times, but he
knows his stuff and is willing to share information.
Personally, I'd be sorry to see him gone. -mice
\_ No matter what someone has done for the CSUA, that
is *never* an excuse to mistreat another human being.
\_ I see far more people mistreating fellow human
beings (tom, ilyas, emarkp, to name a few) than
I see defending them or their rights. It seems
strange to me that you'd be quick to jump to the
defense of their (often vicious) detractors, and
yet be silent when they come under attack
unprovoked. Not two posts up there's someone
mistreating another human being....where's your
outrage for that? Or is your outrage only
reserved for those that defend people that you
personally don't like?
\_ The ratio of useful comments over caustic remarks
so low, it's almost 0. So, I'd be happy when he
gets a life and moves on, or get squished. Wait
I'd be happy when I get a life so I don't have
read and post on the stinking motd.
\_ You know, the ratio of useful comments over
{caustic, stupid, bullshit, whatever} remarks on
the motd is pretty low. As for the weenies who
attack people randomly and anonymously, that's a
whole different story. -John
attack people randomly and anonymously, that's
a whole different story. -John
\_ He knows a little bit about this and that and
all are certainly entitled to shoot the breeze
about the political issues of the day. But he
goes beyond that. He sometimes has valid points
limited to user interface issues, but given the
actual programming is well-beyond his abilities
he should offer them in a more humble spirit.
And on plenty of occasions he is simply
wrong in his design criticisms, and is either
unable to admit to the errors or is unwilling to
see things from a non-Tom centric perspective.
It would be smartest to just ignore the pompous
and ignorant comments about technical matters
(relating to filesystems, programming language
design, networking protocols, operating system)
in the face of many humbler and better informed
people on soda, but I find it difficult to do so.
\_ I am also a pompous ass with strong opinions
on language design. Why I rant about the
loathsomeness of Perl practically daily.
-- ilyas
\_ Okay ilyas, show us on the doll where
perl touched you....
\- Aren't you a graduate student in
computer science who presumably has
taken a compiler class and a class
on abstract languages? That seems to
give you at least nominal qualifications
to make informed judgments. When it
come to some of your out-of-core-competency
opinions, we'll ignore you. ok tnx.
\_ prz be to stick an ice pick in your
eye for using 'core competency' in a
non-ironic way. kthxbai. -- ilyas
\- do you love I BERLIN? business
people [jim collins] have coopted
his HEDGEHOG.
\_ Yes, that seems likely. But we have consider that
a fair number of people have already been voted off.
\_ who? |
| 2005/7/26-28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:38833 Activity:moderate 57%like:38555 53%like:38796 |
7/26 More administrativa including upcoming downtime. Read the official
motd you hozers. - jvarga
\_ jvarga et al -- what sorts of booze? I'd be glad to donate some
cash for a discretionary entertainment fund for our hardworking
rootish adminy volunteer people.... -mice
\_ I dunno. I don't drink alcohol at all, and njh is going to be
out of town. Chances are that I will be making these changes
in my underwear from the comfort of my home. - jvarga
\_ You shouldn't request booze if you don't want any. Your
punishment to drink the vodka in the filing cabinet! ...
No, I guess being the CSUA sysadmin is punishment
enough... :P
\_ I usually request booze to make the rest of root easier
to work with. - jvarga
\_ Back in my day, we just used the bat for that. When
twohey wasn't busy using it on his project partners,
that is...
\_ I think the last time root types assembled with alcohol, we had
wine. Perhaps a dessert wine, like a port.
\_ fag.
\_ I don't get it. What would you prefer?
\_ I think ya do, Trebek! I think ya do!
\_ Buckfutter!!1!
\_ It's a joke, son.
\_ jvarga - are you going to be in Berkeley next tuesday afternoon?
I'd like to thank you (and give you a donation for the csua) in
person. --ranga
\_ I get out of classes at 4pm, after which I'll likely be in the
office slamming my head against things after the home dir move.
- jvarga
\_ stalker alert!
\_ ranga I'm poor, can you please treat me to Fondue Fred
tomorrow? -poor student
\_ poor student: so presumably you have some free time and
talent to donate. do do anything for the CSUA or are
talent to donate. do you do anything for the CSUA or are
you just a leech?
\_ he's a poor student precisely because he has no free
time and/or talent with which to make money.
\_ I'm a poor student because I spend all my time doing
stuff for the CSUA rather than getting a real job.
- jvarga
\_ Any idea when /ftp will be up again? Thx. |
| 2005/7/25-26 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:38805 Activity:low |
7/25 I don't know anything about Green Days or their lyrics. Are they
really "green"? Like do their songs sing about environment,
conservation, mother nature, fuck you Bush, and other things?
\_ Maybe they'll have some information on the internets.
\_ No, Green Day refers to smoking marijuana all day, and they're
a punk band. They have little or nothing to do with the
Green Party, Greenpeace, or Green Acres.
\_ Fuck them then.
\_ Dookie!
\_ Why don't you ask them in person? They used to hang out near
the dumbsters behind Safeway in Berkeley.
|_ I thought the Berkeley dumbsters hung out on the motd.
the dumpsters behind Safeway in Berkeley. |
| 2005/7/6 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:38441 Activity:high |
7/6 Why isn't the public motd on the csua website?
\_ Because "The uncensored messages below this line may not
reflect opinions of the CSUA."
\_ but, butbutbut, we could put the warning too.
\_ After 9/11 and what paolo did, there has been a reluctance
from politburo to confirm or deny the existence of motd.
\_ These axes, they grind them forever and ever... |
| 2005/6/28-29 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:38333 Activity:nil |
6/29 Hey danh! Can you stop posting http://csau.org links to gorey images as responses to threads? Isn't one of the motd rules not being a jerk? \_ Dan's not here, man. \_ 1) Dan hasn't logged on since last night 2) clicking a danh link is done at your own peril \_ I don't post random links to the motd without some description, and I use tinyurl, not http://csua.org, since I have a tinyurl firefox extension. - danh \_ It was probably psb. That's the kind of thing he thinks is clever. -tom \_ Um, so those procs running as 'danh' aren't his? \_ He just logged in. pbbbt. \- Fear of a Danhimal Planet |
| 2005/6/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:38246 Activity:nil |
6/22 Dear motd custodian, please wake up and do you job. Keep motd clean
and neat. I've been doing your job for the past few days. Lazy ass.
\_ Sorry, I've got this class presentation tonight so I haven't
looked at the motd for a few days. I was hoping the 'liberal ==
communist' and the 'bush == hitler' people would be censoring
each other thus keeping the motd relatively clean. |
| 2005/6/21-23 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Uncategorized/Profanity, Consumer/Audio] UID:38241 Activity:nil |
6/21 Hey native russian speakers, what the hell is this:
http://www.dusha.su/main.html
I can't figure it out. .su is Siberia... I think?
I didn't know Siberia had split off already!
Who is this guy? http://tinyurl.com/72luo - danh
\_ .su is leftover from soviet union.
\_ Where did you hear about these guys, Dan? They are a cult, by
the way. E-mail me for details. -- ilyas
\_ share all the juicy details with the rest of the motd.
\_ Eh, why should I? Motd treats me like shit. -- ilyas
\_ motd treats us all like shit |
| 2005/6/17-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:38167 Activity:high |
6/16 Do any of you essentially not read books any more? I find it
interesting there are people who are bright and by any measure
successful who read maybe .5 - 1 book a year, e.g. my housemate
has an MBA from MIT/Sloane and is essentially retired at 48.
I'm not sure he has read 2 books in the 2yrs I've lived here.
He does watch various news and informational TV programs so he's
not clueless about the world. This does not include "HowTo" books.
\_ I generally don't make time for reading, though several times
a year I go crazy and read all the books I buy in my off periods.
In general, though, the books I do try to read when I'm not devoting
most of my time to it are difficult reads that I go through them
very slowly.
\_ I am neither bright nor successful, but I don't really read
very much. -- ilyas
\_ I read a lot when commuting on BART. Since I had to start driving,
I've pretty much stopped.
\- I'm not talking about very much. I mean zero. And I'm not
talking about do you knock off a Shakespeare now and them ...
I mean people who dont even read The Da Vinci Code or Michael
Crichton or other "airplane pilp".
Crichton or other "airplane pulp".
\_ When I read, I tend to read classics or books of an
informational nature. Most newer fiction is not for me.
The last book I read was 'Dune' (again) about a year ago.
I am not sure that reading books (especially fiction)
indicates much of anything at our age. I used to read a
lot more when I was younger and had the time. FWIW, I
don't watch TV or go to the movies either. I do read the
newspapers and magazines like 'The Economist' religiously.
BTW, how come your housemate is a 'housemate' when he has a
good degree from a good school? Is he lazy?
\- I'm not suggesting anything about "our age" ... this was
asked on the soda MOTD and I'd think the soda motd has
a marginally higher literacy rate than "our age". Of course
people here are more likely to have the web suck up their
time. And I am not talking about reading but reading
books. A lot of these smart-but-non-readers read the
newspaper and other practical books like the Idiot's
Guide to DVD burning etc.
I dont understand the "why is your housemate a housemate"
part of the question.
\_ What I mean by 'our age' is that a kid who reads a
lot is probably bright (not sure about which is the
cause and which is the effect). I do not think this
is true once you reach adulthood. If someone reads
10 bodice rippers a week does that imply anything about
his or her intellect or lack thereof? 'Number of
books read' by itself is meaningless at this stage of
intellectual development. Someone who reads the NYT
and Wall Street Journal every day is quite likely
doing more for themselves than the bodice ripper
person. As for your housemate, I am wondering why
he doesn't have his own place when he has a graduate
degree from MIT. That sounds rather odd. I'd worry
about that more than about how many books he reads.
\- I was not the one equating "reads" with
intelligence. If anything I was saying that I
found it odd a fair number of pretty intelligent
people *dont* read ... or if you go to their homes
you will not see 10 books. I agree a lot of people
who read pulp somehow think that is supirior to
wantching TV, when they are essentially the same
thing ... and then there are people who watch a
HISTORY CHANNEL show on Rome and think that is
50% of the way to reading R. SYME: THE ROMAN
REVOLUTION when it is closer to like 3%. Re: house-
mate: he owns multiple millions of dollars in
real estate. I can only assume he lets me live here
because of my wit and charm, since he clearly doesnt
need my meagre rent.
\_ I haven't read a book 'for fun' since I graduated several years ago.
Reading is on my 'todo' list but never rises to the top. I have
other things I'd rather be doing or need to be doing.
\_ Interesting. I didn't have time to read at college, but now
that I work I read voraciously.
\_ Before to law school I was reading about 1 book every 2 weeks
or so (mostly non-fiction - science/history/&c.). Now I pretty
much only read my casebooks or related material which amounts
to around 300 pages a week (or more).
\_ I had pretty much stopped reading for pleasure by my junior year as
an undergrad. Then I married a librarian. I read like crazy now
(and keep having to get more bookshelves). -emarkp
\_ Why does being related to a librarian always make people
read more? Is it because they bring home books, or that
they get good recommendations at work, or that they read
a lot themselves and pass the book on, or what? I've known
several sons/daughters of librarians, and they're all
avid readers.
\_ If you didn't love books, you wouldn't become a librarian
\_ Speaking as the son of a librarian, I think the
factors are mostly envionmental. My mother read to
me a lot as a child. There are always books around
the house. We went to the library (as a family)
weekly. We got books as presents. Mom was always
reading books. etc. -jrleek
\_ In my case, she had a lot of great books that I'd never
read. Now we recommend books to each other. -emarkp
\_ No, we're too busy reading motd. =) But seriously, I read newspaper
and website for things that used to be available on printed media.
\_ Sometimes books have a hard time competing for my attention with
all the other stuff there is to do... I don't read as much as I
would have liked. I occasionally get into a mode of reading a number
of books. If I get "stalled" in a book it tends to kill my reading
habit for a while and I'll go play videogames instead or whatever.
I stalled out of a few books lately when I tried reading more
classic literature... I made it halfway through Karamazov before
giving up. Master and Margarita didn't capture me after a partial
attempt. For Whom the Bell Tolls I picked up after really enjoying
The Sun Also Rises, but I kind of trailed off halfway through that
also. I'm 3/4 through The Iliad translated by Robert Fagles, which
doesn't seem as poetic as whatever unknown translation I read
a little bit of in college. And the storyline gets a little bogged
down with the endless battling and slaughter.
I hope to just get those two done and then stick with lighter
stuff for a while. I had fun reading short stories since they
can be done in one sitting. Hard Boiled detective stories and Fritz
Leiber's Lankhmar tales were the latest I read.
Lately I've just been listening to audiobooks while I fall asleep or
over breakfast... at least I get through stuff that way.
\- imho, the iliad is not something you can read without "guidance".
best is to read it in a class with a good teacher, but even
reading a good introduction may be enough. i say this for two
reasons: 1. it is a very "alien" work so you are likely to
arrive at some incorrect interpreations unless you are waved
off [like say with the metrical rather than descrptive function
of the ephithets] 2. it is an amazingly complicated work and
there are some structures/methods that you'll need some
examples pointed out ... after you know what to look for,
there are some structures/methods that you'll need some to be
pointed out ... after you know what to look for,
then you can look for these on your own [like some details of
"ring composition", or the way HELEN is described in the
famous "Teikoskopia"].
\_ You're probably right... this book does have a relatively
long introductory/preface section and appendices etc. and
I did have part of the Iliad as class material at Cal (but
I really bailed on that class and I think the focus was
not on the literature but the mythological ideas). It does
describe at least some of what you're talking about. I have
describe at least some of what you're talking about. I
have to be in the proper mood for it... I also have the
Odyssey from the same guy. I did not compare translations
beforehand so I kind of wonder if I'm missing out on something
But it's hard to say what the "real" approach should be. The
guy of course argues his way best captures the feel. Oh well.
\_ psb is right. It's not just a matter of being in the
'mood,' you need a lot of background on their society, the
way they thought, their entire moral and metaphysical
framework was completely different from ours.
\_ I meant in the mood to enjoy reading it. This motd
stuff got me into it again for now...
\- "moral and metaphysical framework" nicely captures
what is at issue in my first point about the "alieness"
of the "world of odysseus". but the structural elements
unique to oral composition [the parry-lord-parry stuff]
in general or homeric epic in particular [like the
telescoping of the 10 years of the conflict into the
short period covered by the iliad] is a different set
of issues. in fact there is one more, which is the
philological ... like greek language has "aspect"...
but that stuff is beyond me. and i think that has
\_ I wish schoen@@csua would login and post. He would
know more about this I bet. -- ilyas
\- are you a russian? doesnt the russian language
have notoriously difficult aspect in addition to
tense? then this may be easier for you to follow.
the closest i've read to a philology heavy book
is G. Nagy: The Best of the Achaeans. very good.
\_ I think aspect distinctions exist in English,
too. English just lacks a general mechanism.
I don't know how sophisticated greek aspect is
compared to russian aspect. -- ilyas
I didn't know what aspect was, so I found this elucidating: _/
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/G/Gr/Grammatical_aspect.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_aspect
\-yes that was sort of my point. some of this stuff
is not like "oh yes the clever boy in the english
class got more out of reading Ozymandias than i
did" ... there is no hope you will get some of this
stuff because it just doesnt exist in your brain,
it's not a matter of insight and figuruing it out.
diminishing returns for a "normal person". i note that
even 5th cent BC athens is much less "alien" and
easier to understand. with some exceptions like the
Oresteia.
\-BTW, I like the Lattimore trans the most probably
but I think Fitzgerald and Fagles are reasonable.
\-BTW, I like the Lattimore trans the most, but
I think Fitzgerald and Fagles are reasonable.
Perhaps the 100s of pages of Fagles cant compare
to the "highlights" you remember from college.
if you want to really go for the poetic one, look
at the pope translation. not user-friendly, tho.
FACTOID: T.E. Lawrence (of Arabia) did a prose
trans. of the Iliad and Odyssey.
\_ That may have been it; I will look into it next time
I'm in a book place. There are a couple of passages
I will know it by. I found Pope online and this too:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?lookup=Hom.+Il.+1.1
That last version has some ridiculous (IMO)
Shakespeare dialogue like "wherefore art thou" that
seems out of place. The Fagles stuff is certainly
very readable; I guess it seems too casual at times.
\- Butler->ass
\- Butler -> ass |
| 2005/6/15-17 [Computer/SW/Security, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:38139 Activity:nil |
6/15 Attempting to sftp to http://csua.berkeley.edu. Got password from key. Entered password and got back: Received message too long 1701996907 Wtf? \_ password from key. since sftp uses ssh, shouldn't you just use your normal password? \_ Trying to do anonymous motd? \_ No, trying to send files from my PC to my CSUA account. \_ Just use scp. \_ I just tried ssh from SunOS 5 and it worked. \_ I'm trying sftp http://csua.berkeley.edu from CSUA. I'm running tcsh as my shell. \_ tunneling ftp through ssh for sftp is a total lost cause. just use scp. google for winscp \_ he's not tunnelling ftp through ssh, he's using sftp. \_ he's doomed, it's not going to work. USE WINSCP \_ I use putty's psftp all the time. As well as FileZilla for xfering files to and from soda. Why is he doomed? \_ Update: so scp seems to do the trick (on soda and from my Mac). Purely for curiosity's sake, any idea why sftp isn't working? \_ It works for me on windows. \_ sftp seems to be working fine too from freebsd machine \_ A ssh1/ssh2 mismatch? Just a guess, I have never used sftp. scp works fine for all my needs. |
| 2005/6/6-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37993 Activity:kinda low 80%like:38032 |
6/6 Hello, my name is William Chow (williamc@csua.berkeley.edu). I never
get any pain on my fingers while typing and a web site I found
supports my position. Therefore, it is impossible to get CTS or RSI
from IO. Also, everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot, and
should get the fuck out of my mother country USA. -williamc
\_ You forgot to spout off about how you're the only one on the motd
who knows any science. Gee, I sure wish I'd spent my career
being a fucking sysadmin instead of a physicist--then I'd really
understand quantum mechanics.
\_ 404 Not Funny. Troll harder. -dans
\_ This isn't really williamc, right? This is someone else mocking his
RSI statements?
\_ Obviously. williamc uses motdedit.
\_ the level of maturity on soda is appalling at times.
\_ the level of maturity on soda is appealing at times.
\_ It's a big improvement from the dickylee days, trust me.
\_ dickylee was a wall jerk, not a motd jerk
\_ The comment didn't mention motd only
\_ I think the word you were going for is "appalling", not
"appealing".
\_ It was; someone did an edit of the original post.
\_ Error 404. Not Funny. Troll Harder. -dans |
| 2005/5/31-6/2 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37908 Activity:kinda low |
5/31 http://csua.com/?wiki=1 I'm looking for volunteers to update MOTD WIKI, someone to update definitions like Ding!, ilyased, squish, etc. If you're interested please email me and I'll give you an account. Thanks. -kchang \_ Stupid question. How exactly does one email you? finger: kchang: no such user \_ /csua/bin/finger kchang \_ my name, at soda. If I don't respond it probably went to /dev/null thanks to spamassassin, in which case just post your login. Thanks. -kchang \_ oh, and you can ADD words too with the account. \_ I propose the first volunteer create a list of previously squished users to the Wiki, along with details on why the user was squished \_ Dear Anonymous Fuckhead Coward, Every person of substance I have ever met has made mistakes in his/her past. Some of these mistakes were minor, some were spectacular, ranging from outright stupid to inconsiderate to just plain evil. I count these individuals as people of substance in part because they learned from their past mistakes. But more importantly, they now spend their time engaging in interesting pursuits and creating useful and beautiful works. I often wonder if the current state of affairs persists in spite of those past mistakes or because of them. So, other than trying to punish people for sins of yesteryear, what have you been up to lately? -dans sins of yesteryear, what have you been up to lately? -Dubya \_ Actually I think it would be entertaining to read about the history of squishage. I for one would like to be remembered as the h0zer who is foolish enough to try to bring down the entire EECS network by fingering it once a second. -kchang \_ That was only a near squish. \_ Tried to? I _did_ bring down the network with a simple program that does while true fork(). Why would you want to be remembered as a h0zer? \_ I can see how you would not want to be remembered for \_ I can see how you would to not want to be remembered for the actual time you got squished. \_ apparently EECS does not like your 'finger', haha -troll \_ tien, can you beat this h0zer? http://csua.com/?entry=32148 \_ Uh, I guess not. -tien |
| 2005/5/31-8/25 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37896 Activity:low |
5/31 /csua/tmp is full! Clean yer shit!
\_ Either clean up yer shit, or I will clean it up for you and impose
nasty and unfair quotas upon you all! Muahahahah. - jvarga
\_ how about just deleting everything that's not world-readable?
-tom
\_ Please delete /csua/tmp/dailyshow, or I will report it to campus
authorities as a copyright violation enabled by the CSUA.
\- just run "find /csua/tmp -mtime +60 -print0 | xargs -0 rm -rf"
\_ i wish kai's motd would tell me who mr anonymous
is. - danh
\_ let's petition to politburo to change it to track every
single poster. I'm sick and tired of libertarian motd,
it's a chaos. Let's change it to totalitarian motd.
\_ ooh yeah, the first thing I think of when I look at
online forums which people are required to post
non-anonymously is "totalitarian." Like those
slashdot nazis.
Of course, to be truly "free" we should just
make all the users on soda have the same UID, and
the market will enforce security for your files. -tom
\- just run "find /csua/tmp -mtime +60 -print0 | xargs -0 rm"
that's what "tmp" means.
\_ Interesting. This got deleted and doesn't show up in kais motd.
Hey kchang! What else are you censoring?
\_ Do you mean intellidiff or kais motd? Kais motd seems to
be updated so infrequently that it's almost useless on
fine grain stuff.
\_ Not very bright are you? The FAQ specifically says Kais Motd
fetches randomly, every 1-2 hours. In addition, there is no
connection between Kais Motd and 24HourDiff. 24HourDiff
\_ So you throw the information away? Your
FAQ says nothing about them being
separate. Rather stupid implementation
IMO.
\_ What's your IP? Let me implement
a special feature for you but I
need your IP. Email me -kchang
\_ This sounds like the
features I keep getting in
the mail from Microsoft.
fetches at a much finer grain detail, and just because it
gets updated doesn't mean it'll show up on Kais Motd. I've
said this before and I'll say it again. Go read the FAQ,
it has implementation details. Dweeb. -kchang
\_ Agreed.
\_ because its stupid. because it makes people do cron jobs
like 'find /csua/tmp -user `whoami` | xargs -0 touch'
Lesson learned, I store stuff off of soda...
\_ Thank you.
\_ What if I have a file named "Hello /". Notice the space
and the forward slash. Would that get parsed as
"\rm -rf Hello /" ?
\_ Dunno, but I just tried to test this and it seems that
"/" is not allowed in a filename. I couldn't do it no
matter how I escaped it.
\_ '/' is one of the few characters file and directory names
are absolutely forbidden to contain in UNIX filesystems.
You wont be abel to create a filename containing it
short of going outside the filesystem and directly
changing characters on the disk.
\_ '/' is one of the few characters file and directory
names are absolutely forbidden to contain in UNIX
filesystems. You wont be abel to create a filename
\_ Can I be cain?
containing it short of going outside the filesystem
and directly changing characters on the disk.
\_ There are some issues with auto-deletion, but this is not
one of them. It can be done safely but it takes some
caution. (I don't really agree it's the right approach
for /csua/tmp). -tom
\_ man find and look at the -delete option. It's a safe way
to avoid the issue you're raising. -dans
\_ how about du -sk /csua/tmp/* | sort -n
and then wipe out the top 20 offenders?
\_ using space in /csua/tmp doesn't make you an "offender." -tom
\_ Or until 50% is free. |
| 2005/5/18-19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37759 Activity:nil |
5/18 Someone please explain to me what specific actions occured that made
nweaver leave? I only have bit and pieces of info here:
http://csua.com/?entry=31891
\_ he hasn't left
\_ In fact he's currently logged on.
\_ This is from fucking 1996. Ohmigod, get a life! |
| 2005/5/18 [Computer/SW/Unix, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37752 Activity:low |
5/18 Hey kchang! You posted a request for people to stop adding and
deleting stuff from the motd. But your request didn't show up in your
archive. Why not?
\_ Because the request got deleted in between archive intervals.
You can read the techical FAQ, the archiver is unfortunately
not comprehensive. Also, I don't normally do this but I thought
it's best that I took out the sicko ascii art in the archiver.
It is listed as "Entry has been invalidated." For more info,
http://csua.com/?entry=faq1
http://csua.com/?entry=faq2 |
| 2005/5/16-17 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:37711 Activity:high |
5/16 kchang, I realize this is beyond the bounds of a diff tool, but I
think it would be pretty neat if when I use your diff I could get
the things that have been added and then deleted, between my
current and previous diffs.
\_ I did have that feature in an earlier version but the output was
very ugly due to the fact that there's a tendency for certain
individuals to change their own stuff 5-10 times within 2 minutes.
Unless there are compelling reasons and that you can convince my
committee members to agree (they're on the bottom of the
24HourDiff page), I'll just leave it as it is. If you want you can
just go to the 24HourDiff page and seek linearly. -kchang
\_ Your fucking committee members? When did your delusions become
this grand?
\_ Committee Members for 24HourDiff: brain, dbushong, ilyas,
jvarga, chiry, tom. And me.
Committee Members for Kais Motd: they're all listed here:
http://csua.com/?login=1
\_ Nowhere on here do I see who the Heroic Committee
for the Glorious People's Revolution members are.
\_ I think all it takes to be a member of the 'committee' is to
suggest something and explain why it's a good idea. -- ilyas
\_ ilyas is smart. You can thank him for a lot of ideas
that turned into actual features here (like user
tracking). I just implemented, that's all. -kchang
\_ In Communist Russia, user tracks YOU.
\_ your user tracking is beyond suck.
\_ if you know how to make it better, maybe you can
share your knowledge, or just shut the fuck up.
And if you think you can get away with everything,
you're wrong. scp, cron, sendmail, etc are all
logged under /var/log/*.log, accessible by
root/wheel.
\_ I think user tracking is against the spirit of the
motd.
\_ I've got your spirit right here pal. Who died
and declared you great arbiter of the motd and
all matters CSUAish? -dans
\_ I did. -God
\_ shell> /csua/bin/finger god
finger: god: no such user
\_ Wow, so are you really abusing root to track
who edits a world-writeable file? -meyers
\_ Come now, soda has a long history of root
abuse. Why break from tradition now? -dans |
| 2005/5/12-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37648 Activity:low |
5/11 Utopia motd: When everyone is kind on motd
Communist motd: When you need politburo's approval to write on motd
\_ Where everyone contributes one word or letter to every post, but
where a geriatric hald blind hunt and peck secretary types them in.
\_ You are confusing communism with totalitarianism.
\_ Well, I guess the theoretical communist motd would just be
the utopian motd. (Which is just the libertarian motd where
everyone is nice.)
\_ Nobody would be allowed to post more than his allotted quota.
Except Party officials might give themselves extra benefits
for their essential services to the People. And of course
all activity would have to be closely monitored in order to
ensure this fairness and eliminate destabilizing radicals.
Gee, this is looking more like totalitarianism already! Well,
our people would have dignity instead of being capitalist
running dogs.
Capitalist motd: When you need to pay to write something new on motd,
and charge others for replying to your stuff
\_ More like: posts are given position on the motd based on popularity.
\_ Posts are given permission based on how much you paid.
\_ Posts are given position based on how much you paid.
Fascist motd: When all of your actions are reviewed by the big bro
\_ Fascist motd: When you are handed a statement to post and sign.
Socialist motd: When politburo controls how many times you can use
and abuse motd
\_ Provided you don't use e's on wednesdays or s's on
Fidays, and every other word is given back to politburo.
Seniority motd: Posting position is based on how long you've been
in the CSUA.
\_ It's just like the capitalist motd, except the Politburo owns the
motd and collects the fees, and if you're too poor to pay then they
grant you a certain minimum amount of posting. The capitalist motd
would be auctioned off to the highest bidder(s) in chunks and they
would run the thing themselves, taxed and policed by Politburo.
Libertarian motd: When anyone can do whatever he/she pleases to motd
\_ Libertarian motd is where we are today.
\_ great, an object lesson in why libertarianism is ridiculous. -tom
\_ It's been libertarian for years, and yet you continue to
obsessively read and post. Would anyone bother to read or post
to any of the other above choices(I'm ignoring the utopian
one)?
\_ probably, everyone except cowardly, abrasive
right-wingers would be just fine with it. -tom
\_ What is wrong w/ the motd as it exists? Yes there is
a bunch of crap on it, but that can be easily ignored.
Yes sometimes people overwrite each other, but that
isn't a huge problem b/c most people are basically
considerate and try to avoid this. All in all it
works and has worked for years.
Personally I think kchang's attempt at detecting
who is making a post is a good one. It has made
the discussion more civil and the topics more
interesting/technical (as it was years ago).
\_ The motd has been held hostage by people who feel that
the motd didn't agree with them and that they should have
the power to do whatever they want to it. Liberatarian
values emphasize personal responsibility. An anonymous
motd seems to encourage irresponsible and petty behavior
instead of civilized discussion. -rollee
\_ I strongly disagree. If the motd is more civil, it's
because a couple of people like aaron and ilyas have
stopped posting, which is unrelated to anything kchang
has done. If people want to post semi-anonymously,
there's still plenty of ways to do it, as discussed in
other threads. Personally, I've stopped using motdedit
just because I don't like the idea of being tracked by
kchang. If postings to the motd are going to be tracked,
it should be done officially with some kind of version
control system, not by some buggy script maintained by
a stalking dweeb.
\_ The irony is razor sharp. -- ilyas
\_ The problem, as I see it, is that while it is
desirable to have a anonymous forum for the free
and open discussion of all sorts of topics, it
is necessary to inject a note of civility into
the forum so that newcomers are not turned off.
The vitality of this (or any forum) depends on
new blood - w/o new perspectives we will end
up w/ a bunch of rehashes of the same arguments.
The optimal solution would be for everyone to
voluntarily behave in a civilized manner, which
would encourage newcomers to adopt the same
attitude. The history of the motd indicates that
this may not be possible.
I believe that an official tracking system would
create a disincentive to a free and open debate.
I see the kchang hack is a compromise. There is
still some level of plausible deniability, but
you can still get called on the particularly bad
comments. This possibility should help to elevate
the discussion.
\_ "The kchang hack" is annoying and intrusive and
pointless. That said, it's based on freely
available information; furthermore, nobody's forcing
anyone to use motdedit (or even post.) And I don't
see it violating any CSUA policies. Best way to
deal with it if you don't like it? "Yeah I wrote
xyz, so fucking what?" -John
\_ amckee's motd: When everyone is kind on motd, or else.
\_ amckee's motd: When everyone is kind on motd (to amckee), or else.
\_ The Communist, Fascist and Socialist motd's are pretty similar.
\_ I find it funny that most of the criticisms are posted
anonymously, which really diminish the weight of the post -kchang
\_ Really? It seems that most criticism comes from those who are
not anon (tom, emarkp, ilyas, john, to name a few). I'd say
more than half the ppl who sign their posts have been critical
of your script.
\_ I for one really like the idea of kchang's script, outside
of having logged motd entries.
It would reduce the amount of blatently offensive trolls.
Maybe we can have a separate motd.not.logged file that people
can chose to read or not. -rollee
\_ Right...until someone gets offended and starts to agitate
for some sort of moderation, and then a new scripter
creates a tracking script for it, and then the people that
left to hang out in their anonymous utopia start to get
pissed off, then it all gets mean and angry(ier), and then
some new clever fellow pipes up "hey, let's separate
motd.not.logged into motd.not.logged and
motd.really.really.not.logged" which of course will fail
since no one can stop another random dude from exercising
his freedom and scripting or logging THAT one....
\_ That's because I don't give a rat's ass about who thinks what
about what I post. I still think your script is dumb, but
I certainly won't argue about whether or not you should be
allowed to run it. -John |
| 2005/5/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37636 Activity:nil |
5/11 Proposal for amckee: add in an experimental /etc/motd.experimental
where one needs to use a lock/unlock mechanism. Make tracking
anonymous (but auditable by root if threads start to violate UC
Regent laws). Then:
cat motd.official motd.public motd.experimental > motd
We can play around with it for a while, and see how it goes.
\_ you don't need to enforce lock/unlock if you enforce editing
via one command. motdedit merge works fine, so no need for
locking. -nivra
\_ There's already some form of locking in motdedit, although I
haven't looked at it much to see how it works (or breaks down).
As the simplest mechanism, we'd only need to make motd.exper
writable by some special user, suid motdedit to that user, and
add the all-users group to the sudoers list for that file cmd.
\_ motdedit uses the normal file lock that standard text editors
can use. It's not an absolute lock that prevents others
from editing, obviously. My point is that one of the reasons
people didn't use motdedit, esp. when threads are in heavy
debate, is the pain of having to wait while others edit
and have the motd locked. motdedit -n doesn't require a lock,
and still prevents overwrites. Thus, you can implement your
solution without requiring locks, as long as everyone is
using motdedit. I shoulda just made "-n" the default. -nivra
[Re-posted after it was overwritten, ironically, enough]
\_ speaking of which, it just merged my post with this one below
it. -nivra
\_ One thing I was thinking of was to create a bona-fide
threaded interface, something with a database behind it where
users can post anonymously (but not delete their or other records).
Nothing revolutionary, by far, but tailor it for something like Lynx
and automatically generate a 'read-only, most recent' list piped
to motd.public - something that looks exactly like this. Perhaps
make it only locally accessible, though (the interface, not the motd).
Sounds controversial, though, and your idea might be better in the
short-term, if nothing else.
\_ http://csua.org/motd
\_ Haha, fabulous. It always amazes me the sheer quantity of crap
on here yet to be discovered (by me, at least). So, uh, why
don't we just make people use that?
\_ of course, most people probably look directly at the .public file
and it'd be a shame not to be able to do interleaved threading...
\_ it's called "wall" -meyers |
| 2005/5/11 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:37633 Activity:very high |
5/11 Mr. McKee,
You're getting awfully heated in the below conversation. As
root, former VP, and now president, you should really cool your heels
before making pronouncements. You're treading where a number of others
have trod to no good effect.
Words from those with authority (as limited and petty as that authority
may be) must be wielded cautiously, or you'll find yourself either
without that authority or with authority over a worthless entity.
--Another former VP.
\_ Hey, fuck off. Unlike previous apathetic/pathetic VP/president, this
new guy is actually showing some interest in making changes. People
hold on to the past dearly, but it's year 2005 and our motd
still using 1970 technologies. It's time to let go and move on, and
give our new guy the benefit of the doubt. Go McKee. I SUPPORT YOU.
\_ See, unfortunately, lacking historical perspective, you don't
know that these are either non-changes or changes doomed for
failure.
\_ Drink the kool-aide or I'll make new soda a Windows 2003 box!
\_ I have made no secret that my primary loyalty is to current students,
these are the people that keep the CSUA alive and purposeful.
Alumni have many valuable things that can still contribute to the
CSUA and our students, but we musn't lose focus on what our ultimate
agenda is - the betterment and enjoyment of current CS students.
Soda serves as a bridge between the old and the new, but the priority
still goes to the new. What sort of environment does soda present
to users we're trying to bring into the CSUA fold, when they see
tripe and vitriol in such a public form? What sense of community
develops, when the only impression people get about the CSUA
soda community is that they're a bunch of assholes? It's not the
community I want to foster under my watch, and I make no bones
about working against efforts that seek to undermine the success
of the CSUA. Perhaps I'm an autocratic nazi like this, but I also
don't see how mindless insults in the MOTD can be defended.
\_ The sentiment is quite commendable, but as someone in a
leadership role (and as an experienced internet user), showing
restraint is part of the job description. In general,
injecting more vitriol into a vitriolic conversation is not
the best way to calm the situation, show leadership, or
impress anyone with your own maturity. As an alum, I'd gladly
donate services or money to the csua...provided I could be
convinced that my time/money/effort was going to be put to use
in a mature, considered way. It's gratfying to see that csua
leadership is passionate about the csua, but don't let your
passion become part of the very problem you're fighting. -mice
\_ You're treading the censorship line. There are many statements
made on the MOTD that cannot be defended. They can, however,
be ignored. The sense of community, that's up to those of you
on campus. It's always been the toughest thing to succeed at
with this group. But your autocratic leanings are only going to
leave _you_ stressed and disappointed. No one else will care.
\_ I think the legitimate criticism is in the words you use
("go fuck yourself"), not necessarily in your philosophy.
\_ I've never been one to spare a snide come back, but you're
right. I removed that part.
\_ carrots are crunchy and full of vitamins. They taste really
great when juiced with some beets, an apple, and a smidge of
ginger. |
| 2005/5/11 [Computer/SW/Security, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37630 Activity:high |
5/11 I know kchang's de-anonymizer is putting a crimp in your style, but
can you people who scp to /etc/motd.public please stop overwriting?
\_ A little thought should help you realize that's impossible.
\_ A little quality thought should help you realize that:
"Overwriting" is being used in the context of "screwing up
other people's changes".
If you turn off brain and assume the literal definition of
overwrite, you might realize you're "overwriting" [literally]
/etc/motd.public every time you save it in an editor.
Finally, scp users can reduce frequency of overwriting
[contextual meaning] by reducing the lag time between the scp
"get" and "put".
\_ Well, they should be diffing and merging as the final step
\_ No, they should be diffing and merging as the final step
before putting. This leaves a pretty tiny window for potential
overwrites. But can someone tell me how kchang is logging
file access? What OS features help with this? I'm curious to
know for other possible applications.
\_ I signed a pact with Satan
\_ Hm, how about this feature. If you put in "-anon" at the end of
your post, then my Ashcroft script will not reveal your id? -kchang
\_ Note that "tiny window for potential overwrite" is a
longwinded way of saying "that's impossible".
\_ it shouldn't be hard to modify motdedit to do this.
\_ Play nice, or we'll take away your cookies. Or, perhaps, make it
so that you can't scp the motd. - almighty root
\_ hmm, maybe make it so that the motd is only editable through
motdedit and make that a suid file w/ sudo'er perms for everyone.
everyone should then be anon, and no more scp. yes, I'm replying
to myself. =)
\_ I concur. Let's enforce some type of lock/unlock mechanism.
\_ Make the trains run on time while you're at it.
\_ locking and semaphores - the first step towards fascism.
\_ You missed the "enforce" part didn't you?
\_ So tell me, if you've done any work with databases
or file systems, how useful is a lock that is not
enforced?
\_ Hey, I didn't realize the motd was that
important to you.
\_ fuck motdedit. In the ear. It's not a technical problem.
\_ Technically, yes it is a technical problem. Access is
provided throuh a mechanism that causes corruption. Any
time such a mechanism exists and is exploitable, it puts
the infrastructure at risk. Asking users nicely not to do
it is not a solution Either you live with the corruption
or you fix it. As a CS grad, you should know this.
\_ Uhm, we're talking about motd...wtf are you talking
about? This isn't a general "all locks and
synchronization are bad" thread, this is a "motdedit
is a shitty technical solution which doesn't even
really address all the problems" thread. As a high
school grad this should be obvious to you.
\_ First of all, tell us why motdedit is broken, and
maybe we can come up with something better.
\_ Because of patronizing motdedit users. Anything
without patronizing evangelists that works would
be better.
\_ As important as MOTD is for a bunch of users here,
most of whom are CS grads, I'd wager any technical
problem could be ironed out quickly. Anyways,
whatever, this is your guys' problem. I don't use
MOTD and everytime I read it, I feel less inclined to
put as much time into maintaining this system as I
do. I was offering solutions to a real problem of
corruption. But hey, if you people like broken, then
broken you get.
\_ Broken >> supercilious motdedit nazi assholes
Go or stay, use it or don't use it, it's a free
country, and nobody is particularly pining for
you either way. Go, and be happy, my son.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
\_ No offsense, but go fuck yourself. As root, VP,
\_ No offsense, but go eat a carrot. As root, VP,
and now president of the CSUA my policies on
sorrying non-student accounts is much more
draconian than that of my predecessors. You
may have been a student once, but our ultimate
mission is to provide service to current
students - and when people make this a hostile
environment, I won't blink to kick them off our
server. Although I value the insight and
participation of alumni in the CSUA, I'd advise
you not to fuck it up for everyone. If you
disagree with an idea, then voice your reasons
- not some immature tirade and rant. This is
not your personal soap box, this is a server
for use by university students.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
\_ I suggest we first solve the problem of people
posting lines longer than 80 columns or people
with their tabstop not set at 8.
\_ I suggest pliers or a heavy bludgeon. There's
nothing like broken bones to keep columns
down to a reasonable size.
\_ Hm, how about this feature. If you put in "-anon" or some type of
identity at the end of your thread, then my Almighty Ashcroft
script will not reveal your id? -kchang
\_ How about we just squish your ass right now? -anon
\_ I wouldn't do that. John Ashcroft is watching you.
\_ But...but...I put "-anon" at the end! Pretty please let me
be anonymous? -anon
\_ Well I haven't implemented it, I'm just soliciting
opinions and should there be enough demand, I'll do it.
\_ Anyone who has worked with group-writable files
has come to the conclusion that locking and
logging is important; I'd like to see motdedit
(or something functionally similar like RCS)
required. -tom
\_ Because the motd is mission critical! Seriously,
if this were source code, I'd agree. An anonymous
posting board where anyone can add or delete? Feh.
\_ It blows me away how worked up people get
about a lame ass world writeable file.
\_ kchang, I like to troll. the motd is too boring. can you include
an 'exclude' list of names? ;) we need to revive the motd of
better topics!!!
\_ Perhaps the de-anonimizer is a good thing. Its like that old
Donald Duck count to 10 before you explode cartoon. You have
to think about whether or not your really want to write that
comment before you do. It makes the discussion more civilized. |
| 2005/5/10-12 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37606 Activity:nil |
5/10 Please make sure you read the official motd for important
announcements regarding CSUA services and server infrastructure.
Thank you - amckee, root staff
\_ root! How are you? You should join our elite motd more often.
\_ I visit you all the time! I ask you questions! I troll!
- jvarga
\_ Fix the wall archiver.
\_ aaron the great Creator of Wall Archiver, punishes
us for our sins by taking it away. He who asks for
the wall archiver, shall first repent, then seek aaron |
| 2005/5/7-8 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37568 Activity:nil |
5/6 Read on for an all-geek, all-tech, all-boring, no fun motd! Thank you
Mr. Motd Cleaner Man! |
| 2005/5/3-4 [Uncategorized/French, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37495 Activity:nil |
5/3 Merde.
\_ Wasn't me, someone overwrote while ah' wuz in motdedit. -jctwu
\_ Vous etes tous un bunch de frickin muppets. -John
\_ Vous etes tous un bunch de frickin muppetss. -John |
| 2005/5/3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37471 Activity:nil |
5/3 puta. Sheeeiit.
\_ Wasn't me, someone overwrote while ah' wuz in motdedit. -jctwu |
| 2005/4/25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37357 Activity:moderate |
4/25 I hereby re-file a motion to squish kchang, and this time, keep him
squished for good. My charges are as follows:
1997-- kchang uses a script to modify motd. This offense is so
serious that the squishage should be permanent. 2003-2004--
kchang's account is unconstitutionally reinstated. The person who
unconstitutionally reinstated him should also be squished. 2004--
kchang writes a web interface to expose our sacred motd to the world.
This is like taking a private elite file and making it world
readable, hence violating the "sharing your soda account with other
people" law. 2004-- kchang tries to bring down the entire Berkeley
network by fingering motd every second. 2005-- kchang writes a John
Ashcroft script, thus violating our right to privacy. Let's reopen
this case and this time, don't fuck up. PS this script is written by
cat fuck_kchang.txt /etc/motd.public > tmp; cp tmp /etc/motd.public
\_ Perhaps you should take this up with root. Bellowing this here
is akin to haranguing people in sproul plaza; while you might get
a few people (possibly even quite a few) to agree with you, it's
still basically just noise. Rather than screaming your woes to
a gang of other essentially powerless denizens, why don't you take
your evidence of wrongdoing direct to the people that make
these sorts of decisions? You might save time and perhaps keep
some needless invective off the motd; it already has more than its
share....
\_ twink
\_ Uhhh, do I know you in person? If not, let's meet somewhere, like
a coffee shop or something. Let's talk in person. -kchang |
| 2005/4/25 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37346 Activity:high |
4/25 Hey kchang, if you're going to track users, why don't you do
something useful, and actually track who the anonymous MOTD
censors are?
\_ isn't that what the red bars are for?
\_ learn to read. "track users"
\_ I was referring to this: http://csua.berkeley.edu/~kchang/24
look for the big red bar
\_ "edited" with one 't'. And "Certified motd trollers"?
Also if it's just guesswork, sure you can put what you
want on your personal page, unless you're safari, but then
people can also put on the motd that they think guesswork
is shit :) -John
\_ yeah, it's the red bar, thanks for whoever responded. Also, I
addded text motd to HTML motd feature. Now motd "fits in"
regardless of 80, 20, or 100 column. Just go to the same page
as usual, and click "html mode" on top. It's still experimental
so comments welcomed. -kchang
\_ I love this. http://csua.berkeley.edu/~kchang/24/?f1=13:33&f2=13:34
has "emarkp?" 15 times. None of those edits are mine. What a great
system. -emarkp
\_ Ya, that's why there's a ? and it's in light gray. -!kchang
\_ But that is so unintuitive! The whole site is TRASH.
\_ But you're such a dick. WHAT HAVE YOU BUILT LATELY? -dans
\_ Of course, you could just point to the latest diff, and note that
ausman is listed as the first author of your post. -nivra
\_ heh. That's pretty funny. Thanks for pointing it out.
-emarkp
\_ you seem to think that the ONLY contribution to this site is
user tracking. That is just one of many features. Also,
according to the key, it is just saying *maybe* you wrote it.
You can think of my site as the Wall Street Journal, the stock
ticker section. It simply collects raw data and displays it in
a different format, so that you can make your own
interpretations. The WSJ doesn't tell you when a stock
will go up/down, and neither does my site pinpoint the EXACT
person who wrote/deleted motd. You know, we've already gone
over this. Whatever. If you can do a better job, please do.
\_ The WSJ doesn't try to guess individuals who are buying and
selling. Since your site is such a dismal failure at
guessing, why not take out the guessing part? -emarkp
\_ Now, I'm no fan of kchang's stupid motd logging, but to
say that it's worse than the wall street journal is a
bit of a stretch. Unless I see some evidence that kchang
is actually evil, and is using his website to try to
destroy America, I'm going to have to disagree and say
that the WSJ is far far worse. I see no such evidence.
\_ First of all, you are not doing a good job convincing me
to take it off. Secondly, I will put whatever information
I want on my personal site. Thirdly, I may consider your
request if the majority of the people on my
credit/contribution list (it's on the bottom of the page)
give me convincing arguments.
\_ It's clear to me -- by the question mark after your name in all
15 instances and the light grey shading, and the underlined name
of other users in bold preceded by a W: -- that you are ... ehh,
never mind. It's not worth talking about.
\_ Maybe you have a higher IQ than the average motder. What's
your IQ? Just curious...
\_ Geez emarkp, cut the dude a break. It's experimental. We
all know it's not perfect. -jrleek
\_ I get enough anonymous trolls as it is without morons taking
stock in the guessing of someone's over-hyped script. The
fact that its guessing is so badly wrong makes me wonder why
it's included. -emarkp
\_ whee... and apparently I wrote this one. -nivra
\_ I don't see how it changes anything for you, since you
always have the editor open, apparently you write
EVERYTHING. Either you're schizophrenic, or you've
got pretty good plausible deniability. -jrleek
\_ whee... all motd edits are belong to me. -nivra
\_ And apparently none belong to me, though I'm
suspected in most of them. -emarkp
\_ actually, for anyone who wants anonymity, plus courtesy, the
current motd script is probably robust enough to modify
to use scp from a different machine for the final post-merge
version. I should also mention that motdedit doesn't need
a lock. motdedit -n, bypasses locks, and merges any conflicts
with minimal error. -nivra
\_ I alway use motdedit -n, I think the '-n' should be the
default behavior. It's fine. -chiry
\_ I protest! Motd spying is unconstitutional. |
| 2005/4/22-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37325 Activity:high |
4/22 Per ilyas and dbushong's suggestion I modified motd diff:
http://csua.berkeley.edu/~kchang/24/?incr=1
Constructive comment/suggestions welcomed here
\_ what do the different colors/styles of the listed names mean?
\_ color key is here: http://csua.berkeley.edu/~kchang/24 go down
\_ Knowing what I have added to the motd today (very little), I can
confidently pronounce this as a piece of crap. Or at least that
a simple way to defeat it is to edit the motd without a lock and
background the editor (reloading inside the editor when I want to
add a change). -emarkp
\_ I never made the claim it's 100% accurate or undefeatable.
In fact it's impossible to track everything unless you make
mods to the OS to track writes, or build something on top of
root writable motd.public that requires authentication. It's
a difficult problem, and that's what makes it interesting.
\_ But claiming to indicate users while being inaccurate is
disinformation, especially in some of the charged threads that
show up here. -emarkp
\_ what, science can't be probabilistic? The indicators are
merely what the script THINKS has happened, that
it has some confidence that underlined/bold/etc users
did something, and low confidence that grayed out users
did something. That's it. You're right, it's not black
or white. If you don't trust the script, that's fine too.
But calling it a piece of crap, that is a bit extreme.
\_ It's a piece of crap. -tom
\_ I count 25 entries today with my name in it.
Considering that before this thread I made a whopping 2
edits, yes I think it's a piece of crap. Oh, and sign
your name. -emarkp
\_ I'll gladly sign my name when you start using
motdedit or a shared lock system :)
\_ Give me a break. Motdedit is problematic, and
faulty. My editor lets me know if the buffer I'm
editing has changed on disk so I don't overwrite.
That works for me. Sign your name. -emarkp
\_ Well. You don't use motdedit because you have
your reasons, and I will not sign because I
have my reasons. Let's just leave it at that.
\_ Then do you have a problem with someone
writing a script to divine your identity?
-emarkp
\_ Not really, why should I care? It
interfere with me anyways.
\_ No. I guess we're all different
\_ The page could use some UI improvements. How about format
it like those web forums? What I meant is something like
http://forums.slickdeals.net/t94394.html So that each
topic is broken into its own colored sections. Also, fonts
such as Arial would probably be easier to read. How about
move the "clock" to the front in its separate column? At
the end of the page, explain the color coding. Remove the
extra line above and below the highlighted section. And if
you are really bored, reformat each reply so that it is
perfectly indented. -chiry
\_ And if you yearn for anonymous motd again, http://csua.org/motd
\_ I wouldn't mind if I get a shell account. |
| 2005/4/19-21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37262 Activity:kinda low |
4/19 Alright John & tom, you have your opinions and I respect them. I'd
like to take this time to hear more constructive and useful
comments from you guys, like what specific actions I can do to
make Kais Motd less sucky by your high standards. And feel free to
spare stuff like 'go stick your head in a pig, twink.' Thanks -kchang
\_ Please, please feel free to quote me where I said that it's
"sucky". I believe it's your site that classifies my last (only?)
comment on it as "UID 37247". Have a look, get back to me. I
merely noted that it had munged some entries before. It's fine,
but fix the grammatical error. Or are you naming me because I find
some of the knee-jerk mob mentality lets-gang-up-on-tom shit to be
pretty stupid? Great. -John
\_ Wow, kchang outclasses Tom.
\_ I'm really not interested in the application, but two obvious
improvements would be to get rid of blink and get rid of all
the annoying disclaimers. -tom
\_ 1) blink gone. 2) Until I can figure out a way to tell random
hosers to stop emailing me hate mail because some of the posts
are politically incorrect, I will leave disclaimers there.
\_ How many of these emails do you get? Why don't you post
the logins of these assholes here?
\_ i'm pretty sure he means random lackwits from the internets
\_ I still think he should post the funniest hatemail
he gets to the motd, along with the users email
address. It would be fun to taunt them and make
go nuts, ala tjb.
\_ Duh, stick a password on it that only soda people would know
like "csuamotd/csuamotd" or something.
\_ I am upset that because of your spying script, I cannot
write the childish things that I want to write!! ;)
\_ chiry or amirs or someone else-- you can just do:
"echo '4/19 Hello world' >> /etc/motd.public"
\_ How about dropping the dorky "guess who edited the motd" feature?
\_ You mean like where people vote on who he/she thinks posted?
\_ Why do you have the disclaimers 10 times? Once is enough, and not
in red. Why are threads with disclaimers greyed out while threads
without disclaimers in black? Why can't I just enter UID 37247
that John provided above and go to that thread? |
| 2005/4/18-20 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:37247 Activity:high |
4/18 Please stop restoring trolls that tom holub worked so hard to get rid
of! Respect tom, as he is older and wiser than you -tom #1 fan
\_ "Had you been as wise as bold,
Young in limbs, in judgment old,
Your answer had not been inscroll'd:
Fare you well; your suit is cold."
Cold, indeed; and labour lost:
Then, farewell, heat, and welcome, frost!
Soda, adieu. I have too grieved a heart
To take a tedious leave: thus holub part.
\_ sorry, kchang, I haven't done any deleting today. Your spy
script sucks as badly as your MOTD web site. -tom
\_ Tom, you really are an ass. The MOTD web site may not be
perfect and kchang may be sort of an odd guy but it is much
better of a hack and more of a resource than your twink script
or twink points or anything else you have done for the CSUA.
\_ Kchang's site is a nice service, and appreciated, but it is
not perfect, and it has done a bit of munging before. And
let's be honest, do a wc -l /etc/passwd for a rough idea
of how many potential h0z3rz you're dealing with. I know Tom
can be rough (occasionally justifiably so) but for the same
reason I think he's self-confident enough to not go around
wantonly nuking motd threads. Get off it. -John
\_ I was considering writing an asshole script for the motd,
but then tom would rate so high that it would totally
skew the graph and I'd have to go logarithmic.
\_ You guys should feel sorry for Tom. Anybody who takes the
MOTD and wallall so seriously can't have much of a life.
He's also so blind to his own problems.
\_ I love it when anonymous cowards who know nothing about
me comment on my life. -tom
\_ Tom, deanonymizing in this case would not add anything
to the discussion and would be a distraction. I don't
know anything about your life beyond soda, true, but
this is a big part of it, clearly. And there is a lot
of material here to draw conclusions from. It appears
I agree with you on many political issues, but the
vigorous and vitriolic pursuit of so many petty
squabbles seems pathetic to me. You can do what
you want with your day of course, but we all have only
24 hours at our disposal. To spend so much of it
picking on the soda little fish seems...again, the
best word is pathetic--like the school yard bully
who will never amount to much in Real Life. While
you may add "character", I believe your conduct over
the long run does harm to the soda community. I find
your pompous pontificating and especially your dissing
the efforts of so many others (while having so few
credentials or contributions yourself) especially
obnoxious. Choose to ignore that or wear that as a
badge of honor. For example, it is clear kchang is
a vastly better programmer than you are. As far as
I know, using the geek gold standard of actual code
written or bugs fixed, rather than just user interface
feedback, you are a zero.
\- "cipher" --psb
\_ Soda community? Uh, right. For those of us who only
keep our soda accounts so we can log in and watch or
participate in idiotic, spittle-filled flame wars,
tom *definitely* adds to the soda community.
\_ gee, who's the one spending all of his time
pursuing petty squabbles? -tom
\_ Pathetic reply, Tom. -!pp
\_ How ironic. "anybody who takes the MOTD so seriously"
applies only to yourself, not tom. Tom doesn't
post all that much as a rule, but since he's signs
his name you jump on him more easily. Just like you
dumbshits did every time ilyas posted. Which is
partly why I'm anonymous. Although sometimes I wonder
why I bother spending time here. I occasionally learn
interesting things though.
\_ Too bad. I actually support deletion of political trolls.
\_ Too bad. I actually support deletion of trolls.
All hail to whoever's doing that. Keep it up. |
| 2005/3/30-31 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36975 Activity:kinda low |
3/30 +80 char lines deleted.
\_ Jesus, haven't you heard of "less -S"? It will bother you less as
text does NOT get wrapped to the next line.
\_ Allah, then how do you read the discarded characters?
\_ the right arrow key to scroll to the right? like any
real editor do? You can even configure the scroll amount,
default is a bit too much for my taste...
\_ Oops. I didn't actually try out -S before I spoke. I just
relied on the man page which reads "the remainder of a long
line is simply discarded."
\_ slouie, you're 85+ char now, and still violating 80.
Oh well, who cares, it looks perfect on my baby
Kais Motd: http://csua.com
\_ FYI, my less alias "less -iS -#8"
\_ +80 char lines will be automatically deleted, without
regard for subject matter. |
| 2005/3/28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36917 Activity:kinda low |
3/28 Who was it that was looking for engineers for the Yahoo small
buisiness group? I have a resume to send you. --jwm
\_ Try /csua/pub/jobs/yahoo-search
\_ That's something different --jwm
\_ god, just Kais Motd it.
\_ See below: |
| 2005/3/26-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:36901 Activity:moderate |
3/26 I want to learn a martial art for health reasons. I took Tai Chi
once (a few month's worth) but otherwise have no experience.
Keeping fit, ease of learning, and practicality (I'd like to be
able to defend myself) are important - in that order. Which
discipline should I learn? I am a little Chinese.
\_ You might consider looking into Wing Tsun with Simon Mayer, or
Ju Jitsu. There are several JJ people here on motd -- perhaps
one or more of them can be persuaded to talk about their club.
\_ I guess it's a bit impractical for self-defense, but I did kendo
for a while, and really enjoyed it. I found the people to be
generally pretty enthusiastic and friendly towards newcomers,
and the sport to be a good balance between learning self-control
and concentration, and screaming and jumping around a lot and
beating on people with sticks. Only drawback is the price of the
equipment. -John
\_ Where are you located right now? Your ethnicity has nothing to
do with what you study, btw. There are a lot of arts out there,
most of which will offer you what you need. UC Berkeley has a
fairly decent martial arts program - Email me offlist if you
have any questions regarding my experiences with that program.
-chaos
\_ I was told I could not study Brazilian or Israeli Martial Arts.
-Chinese
\_ Unless this is a troll, or they were kidding, that's illegal.
\_ Some other idiot added the Chinese part. I don't care enough
to remove it. I am in the Los Angeles area now, btw.
\_ How could any sodan be so gullilbe as to take that as part of a
serious question? If that jerk added "I am a little jew/arab/*"
instead, would it at least raise some alarm in your head?
\_ You may not know this but a lot of sodans are little Chinese.
\_ [stupid]
\_ I don't give a fuck. |
| 2005/3/26-28 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36895 Activity:nil |
3/26 The motd has been so censorship-free during spring break. This makes
me think the motd censor is a student - but that's not possible! Why
would a non alum read the the motd, let alone care about it enough to
censor it so often?
\_ some alum are still students
\_ We are the old, wise curmudgeons who will harass you towards the
path of righteousness in the real world (and maybe hire you.) -John |
| 2005/3/24 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36858 Activity:kinda low |
3/24 MUAHAHAHHAH!
soda [2] wc -l /etc/motd.public
772 /etc/motd.public
\_ Stop tempting fate!!!
\_ the motd censors must be taking time off during spring break.
\_ Nuclear launch detected. |
| 2005/3/18-20 [Recreation/Dating, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36758 Activity:moderate |
3/18 Get yer weekly culture fix. Art Show @ The Clinic, 2801 25th St.:
http://clinicsf.com
-dans
\_ hey dans, you're a pretty cute guy. Are you attached to anyone?
Here's a bit of info about myself. I'm single, clean, and
neat. I like opera, I love fine arts, I love cats (they're soooo
adorable!), exotic cuisines (ever tried http://www.asiasf.com and
everything that is unusual or exciting. Would you like to have
lunch or coffee some time? If so, email charlie1982@yahoo.com
\_ wow, i am speechless. -!dans
\_ jealous?
\_ that sodans can be this blunt/brave. ;)
\_why not? it's not like they'll get pregnant and stuck
with each other.
\_ wait, so just to clarify, is this... a gay wanted ad on motd?
\_ I wouldn't consider asiasf to be exotic cuisine per se, though
I've never been there, but I'm told it's pretty amusing as
tranny bars go. Anyway, if this is actually serious and not
just motd wankery, drop me an email. -dans
\_ A good friend of mine is actually a bartender at asiasf. Even if
it is far from what my lifestyle is like, I will say that it is
a fun place to hang out if you are just looking for a fun and
interesting evening. -phale
\_ I'm surprised this thread has hung around this long. No email
received thus far, guess it was just motd wankery. Pity,
flattering while it lasted. -dans
\_ gosh, I'm so sorry... have you tried http://queer.berkeley.edu or
http://gayfriendfinder.com? Motd isn't exactly a gay-friendly place. |
| 2005/3/14-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36688 Activity:moderate |
3/14 Hey could someone point me to a copy of the nukl3ar b1ff ascii art
including Totoro commmenting in the foreground? I looked at cowsay
and it doesn't appear to be an option there. Thanks. -dans
\_ http://csua.com/?entry=36687
http://csua.com/?entry=27854
http://csua.com/?entry=21368
http://csua.com/?entry=18074
http://csua.com/?entry=16746
http://csua.com/?entry=14927
http://csua.com/?entry=14926
http://csua.com/?entry=14928
Between mehlhaff's comprehensive archiver and kchang's sucky but
easy to use archiver, I'll use the latter any time. kchang>>mehlhaff
\_ Cool, thanks much. -dans
Thanks to kchang's kais motd:
\_ What does kchang's broken motd stuff have to do with a nuking?
\_ See post immediately below.
\_ why is it broken? |
| 2005/3/14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36687 Activity:nil 50%like:38632 |
Thanks to kchang's kais motd:
__/~*##$%@@@******~\-__
/f=r/~_-~ _-_ --_.^-~--\=b\
4fF / */ .o ._-__.__/~-. \*R\
/fF./ . /- /' /|/| \_ * *\ *\R\
(iC.I+ '| - *-/00 |- \ ) ) )|RB
(I| ( [ / -|/^^\ | ) /_/ | *)B
(I(. \ `` \ \m_m_|~__/ )_ .-~ F/
\b\\=_.\_b`-+-~x-_/ .. ,._/ , F/
~\_\= = =-*###%#x==-# *=- =/
~\**U/~ | i i | ~~~\===~ You know, we totoro
| I I \\ do not appreciate this.
/ // i\ \\
( [ (( I@) ))) ) /
\_\_VYVU_/
|| * | |\|\
/* /I\ *~~\ | OO\
/~-/* / \ \ ~~M~\ | /^^\|
____----=~ // /WVW\* \|\ ***===--___ |_m_m/ |
| 2005/3/5 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36536 Activity:nil |
3/5 Welcome back soda! To check out motd you missed go to
http://csua.berkeley.edu/~kchang/intellidiff/?incr=1 |
| 2005/3/3-4 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36505 Activity:high |
3/3 A great place to talk about politics: http://csua.org/motd Hello, my name is Motd, and I approve this message. \_ Seems to be kinda broken. \_ and deserted. \_ How so? I know not many people use it, but I'm curious to hear what's broken. --dbushong \_ Ah, I see. I think most of it's just that 2nd post, where someone pasted content, completed with existing \_'s directly from the motd. I guess I should trap for that. --dbushong \_ I admit, I didn't look very long. The other odd thing was the [1,2] beside the first post. It had some effect, but I'm not sure what the purpose was.. \_ Documentation, Shmocumentation. Posters can edit their own post, but the old versions are always saved and available to see what revisionist history the poster's up to. --dbushong |
| 2005/3/2-3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36500 Activity:insanely high |
3/2 Motd is 50K long, go motd go! Go motd go!
\_ Why do people say "Go motd go!"? Why not just "Go motd!"?
\_ "Go Johnny go go go!"
\_ I'm going to guess that it has something to do with what you
heard as a child. Take the famous Inspector Gadget cartoon
song. It just sounds better when you sing it as "Go Gadget Go!"
But yeah I agree that all languages [that I personally know
of] have numerous examples of redundant verbiage.
\_ While "Go Gadget Go!" was in the theme song, the more
memorable phrase was "Go Go Gadget X". I always though
the Go X Go! was a homage to Speed Racer, "Go Speed
Racer, Go!"
\_ I think the lines in the theme song are "go gadget go":
Inspector Gadget..
Oo Hoo..
Inspector Gadget.
Inspector Gadget..
Oo Hoo..
Inspector Gadget.
Go gadget go!
Go gadget go!
Inspector Gadget..
Oo Hoo..
Inspector Gadget.
\_ Ha! You don't think about it as a kid, but now that
I'm grown up, the lyrics are STUPID!!!
\_ Here he comes
here comes Speed Racer (ooh, ahh! ooh, ahh!)
Here he comes
here comes Speed Racer, he's a demon on wheels
\_ I'll get you next time, Gadget... |
| 2005/2/27-3/1 [Computer/SW/Languages, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36447 Activity:low |
2/26 I've been a slashdot reader for longer than I care to admit, but I'm
wondering about other sites out there that maybe have a higher signal
to noise ratio, and/or are more programming-focused.
\_ It's called CSUA MOTD if jwang did a better job nuking political
trolls. Email jwang@csua.berkeley.edu if you want him to do a
better job.
\_ Fuck you and die, motherfucker.
\_ The CSUA motd, of course!
\_ And a double dumbass on you, too! |
| 2005/2/24-25 [Recreation/Dating, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36403 Activity:very high |
2/24 Ilya and Brett, why do you love the motd?
Estimated motd edit frequency by users:
* 28 ilyas
* 22 brett
* 11 jctwu
* 6 dgies
* 9 jrleek
* 3 scotsman ecchang john jwang danh
\_ your script is weak. this is 3rd entry I have made
all month. - danh
\_ the above is based on last 24 hours, and yes my script sucks
but it's better than nothing. If you have a better snooping
technology that you'd like to share, email me -kchang
\_ No, it's not better than nothing. Incorrect information is
less useful than no information. -emarkp
\_ yeah just like the Bible. WHY THE FUCK DID YOU OR
SOMEONE ELSE CENSOR THIS?
\_ it is when I control the information, muhahaha -kchang
\_ Hi, just thought I d drop by and point out that
you are a fool. -- ilyas
\_ if I'm a fool then you're a bigger fool. I believe
you spend a lot more time on motd than me. Get a
life ilyas. -kchang
\_ You've GOT to be kidding.
\_ You don't even understand why you were called
a fool, which is fairly impressive. -- ilyas
\_ you are on top of the pile.
\_ Hey, aren't you guys in the same small department
in the same school?
\_ Yup. -- ilyas
\_ Can you see eachother from your respective
terminals?
\_ better yet, can you set up a MOTD down
there and leave us alone?
No, and I've never talked to ilyas, although I've heard -/
a lot about him, like he's a very condescending
character. I'm still waiting for him to insult me
\_ Hah! You've heard this in the department? -- ilyas
in person. It's bound to happen one of these days. By the
way this reminds me of a joke where all the inmates in this
jail have heard every single jokes possible in the world and
memorized them, and in fact, they simply refer to them as
numbers. For example, one of the inmates would say "Joke
#36403" and all the inmates would burst into laughters.
Likewise ilyas could borrow this idea and simply insult
me via #'s, where 1=Lazy Bitch, 2=You're a fool,
3=Get a life, etc etc.
\_ h07 42n ch1x!
\_ Your script is signicantly more useful than nothing. We
all have a brain and can decide how accurate it is, and
perhaps future incarnations will be. It's not like we'd
use this log to invade Iraq or squish jwang. Thanks kchang!
\_ Are you suggesting the mighty kchang is WRONG?
http://csua.berkeley.edu/~kchang/intellidiff
\_ the above is posted by lye
\_ The obvious problem is that his method (kchang, what IS the
method?) only knows for sure about (a subset of?) those who
write the motd in the way that's logged by his thing.
\_ yeah I'm offering you a lower bound on the number of
people who modify, vs. having no bound at all. So
what's new? How would you get a tighter bound? -kchang
\_ Why do you give a shit?
\_ motd gives me inspiration for a PhD thesis
\_ Funny. Given the number of phd theses(including
mine) that are being delayed by time wasting
on the motd, I'm glad to see that the motd
might actually have some positive effect on
someone's phd.
\_ I think that's the scariest thing I've seen
all day.
\_ not sure lye, why do YOU love the motd?
\_ Because it is so full of love. --lye
\_ You have a 40% error. -named person
\_ dgies, tell us which ones and maybe it'll be fixed
\_ And non-out-of-context Ohio Players orgasms and things. -John
\_ I love it because it lets me waste taxpayer money with impunity!
-- ilyas
\_ Communist!
\_ There is such a thing as "tax" in communism?
\_ In Soviet Russia... oh never mind.
\_ Man, that has got to be the world's slowest way to waste
taxpayer money.
\_ A million monkeys on a million discussion boards will
eventually something something...
\_ You have a 40% error. -named person
\_ dgies, tell us which ones and maybe it'll be fixed
\_ Does your script also measure people who don't use /csua/bin/me?
\_ no it only measures nice people.
( ` \| . . |
\ . \: . F
\ . L:. .-. . ' /
`. . `:. / ) \ _ ' |
`. `. ` .-(-"'`)' ) ' L
`. `.__.-' | ' `|.' . \
`. ` `!_' .|-. .. : \
`-._ . "' )::'' . L
`-. . _.':::' J
J `-._ _ -' ):' . L
F `-. .-' ).. |
J `. -' .-'):: J
F `-._ -' _.' :' L
J J""" )' J
J \ F .L
F : \ / |
J `::'' . .|
F : Y L
J | : |
J : : | J
\_ GAAAAAYYYYY
\_ Oh that's sick.
\_ wow that's remarkably effective. you fucker. I'm at work here.
\_ And yet you still pulled the image up in an editor to add your
comments?
\_ How about one with a man and a woman!!
\_ keywords: ascii art gay masterbate masterbation |
| 2005/2/23-24 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36383 Activity:high |
2/23 So why do people seem so uncomfortable about answering questions
that seem to come from coursework? Is it about making students
suffer, or because of an assumption that they'll learn more by
doing it the hard way? The question below is something I hazily
remember and it's something I'd like to know, just to stay sharp.
I think NOT answering it, as tends to happen, might send the wrong
message to student members.
\_ Well, the question below is different from actual homework problems.
I am sure you can see the problem with doing someone's homework
for them. -- ilyas
\_ Remember your Physics professor/TA telling you that you learn by
doing and getting stuck with the problem, not by getting spoon-fed
the answer? That wasn't all baloney.
As for soda, the ideal responses are hints and things of that sort,
although many responses are not always ideal (in particular, the
ones that end with, "Lazy bitch.")
\_ Amusingly enough, I seemed to have been the only poster that
actually solved the problem, and gave an actually useful
hint (splitting the array into 3 sums). But I am sure all
your bitching about me telling off the lazy undergrad bitch
is far more ideal. -- ilyas
\_ Are you talking about the contiguous int's in an array? My
CS170 book (Udi Manber) gave a solution using two sums, not 3.
\_ Heh, you can think of it as either 2 sums or 3 (the third
sum is what's left). -- ilyas
\_ Asking anyone outside of the class can be considered cheating in
some classes/professors these days.
\_ Why do you say this? I've only heard something this strict for
take-home midterms/finals; homework seems to be > 90% "as
long as you don't copy".
\_ In all the classes I have ever TAed, the understanding is that
you do the homework yourself. -- ilyas
\_ You're a unionized state employee. Awesome.
\_ By "the understanding is", do you mean the TA or professor
says "You should do the homework by yourself", or do
you mean they say, "You are not permitted to ask someone
else for help. For this course, it is considered
cheating."?
\_ I consider the latter the legal codification of the
former, and in practice, I consider them equivalent from
the 'what you should morally do' point of view.
Certainly I would feel entitled to call anyone in
violation of either 'lazy bitch.' -- ilyas
\_ But you know it can't be policed. So I think if this
policy is in place then the grade should not depend
on the correctness of the homework.
\_ You can't perfectly police takehome finals
either. Or GREs (if the perpetrator is clever).
Or speed limit laws. Or anything, really. What's
your point? -- ilyas
\_ So have you given up on your "thread order
enforcement"? I see you're active today,
but I also see threads being selectively
deleted "out of order". -meyers
\_ I ll retaliate if some thread I care about
disappears 'prematurely.' You can do all
the other ones, Robby. -- ilyas
\_ Those other things are a lot better policed.
I dunno, I'm not in school anymore. But I think
the point of homework is to learn, and
discussing the problem with others can help.
\_ I agree that discussing can help, especially
for math proofs. But motd is a bit of a
one-sided discussion. -- ilyas
\_ What do you mean by "motd is a bit of
a one-sided discussion"?
\_ When someone asks for homework help
on the motd, it's not a real
discussion. It's one party fishing
for clues while contributing nothing,
really. 'Discussion' for these
things has to be face to face, imo.
Also, it's a little annoying because I
have never ever seen anyone admit
upfront they are asking for homework
help on the motd. It's always 'hey,
here's a neat problem!' That already
seems dishonest from the start.
-- ilyas
\_ I would say the majority of users
have problems with students asking
the Internet at-large to do their
homework.
The same majority also feels it is
dishonest for students to pretend
not to be students.
There is no disagreement there.
\_ Hey ilyas, can we call you an "uptight dickhead?"
\_ The difference between the two is obvious.
Lazy bitch.
ilyas, it's good that you're concerned about cheating. -/
Luckily, most HW assignments are less than 5-10% of
the total grade, and in the case of most grad schools,
they're worth nothing.
they're worth nothing. My take is this. If students want
to cheat on the HW, let them cheat! When they take the exam,
their grades will reflect their lack of efforts they've
put into their study anyways. |
| 2005/2/21-22 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36356 Activity:high Edit_by:dlong |
2/21 Seeing as most of politburo is new to the CSUA (and even the
university) this semester, they havn't been "indoctrinated" (if that's
an appropriate word) into the history and culture of the CSUA. As
such, there's a bit of culture change going on through their work. I'm
curious as to what people think about the historical culture versus
the newer culture. Should the CSUA maintain its "geeky" roots with
respect to things like the office and web page, or migrate to the more
"133+" look that some want? For example, the office has inherited some
"loud" furniture, and there's been talk of revamping the website. I am
not one to be stuck in the past, but at the same time, there are things
which maintain a certain "culture" within the organization.
\_ how many of them joined because of babelicious karen?
\_ Do both. For starter, get them to mesg y, nwrite, and most
importantly, wall. It's always good for the young and the old
to keep in touch with each other. From there, the noobs can choose
which traditions they'd like to keep while the old can keep up
with what's new. FoodP and volleyball tournaments between the
old and the new would also be a great idea.
\_ What makes CSUA unique? What does CSUA have that other organizations
don't have? To name a few, relaxed atmosphere, informal non-uptight
organization (like UCSEE), non-exclusionary (XCF), and above all
else, the amazing synergy between alumni and new students. I think
that as long as you can keep these unique characteristics in CSUA,
it doesn't matter how the web site looks or how you rearrange the
office.
\_ Has the risk tourney taken place anytime recently? -John
\_ there was RISK playing last week, no tourney in a while though.
\_ We got sick of Berkeley Gaming Club guys showing up and
cheating. -tom
\_ What happened? How do you cheat at Risk?
\_ Give yourself extra armies when making change. (It
helps to play the Australia strategy in every game,
so all your armies are on the same place and are hard
to keep track of). -tom
\_ The CSUA today seems like a much more jolly place than, say, the motd.
I don't know whether you're actually around the office much; but it
seems to me that the organization is doing quite well. I've only been
a member for 3 odd years, so I may not be well versed in traditions,
but if the goal of the CSUA is to be a place where geeks who love
computers can congregate, socialize, and every so often be productive,
then I don't think there's that much too complain about.
\_ take out tom ilyas aaron,
and everything old and smell,
from motd and wall,
then jolly you'll get all. |
| 2005/2/19-21 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36246 Activity:high |
2/19 Did you, as an undergrad, watch Animaniacs, listen to Beatles,
and sing Russian peasant drinking songs on Hearst? If you did,
can you say something about yourself, like when you were there,
who you're with, etc? I'm trying to locate old friends. ok thx.
\_ yes, yes, no(at least I don't remember,but maybe I was too drunk)
\_ Budu zhdat' tebja zaranee U izluchiny reki. Prihodi zhe na
svidanie, Ja prochtu tebe stihi, -- Pro podruzhek pro veselyh
I zatejlivyh rebjat, Pro tebja, moja ljubimaja, Srazu tri
stiha podrjad.
\_ someone please translate this???
\_ Everyday I'd watch Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, and Batman on Fox from
3:30 to 5:00. If time didn't allow I'd watch them on pre-recorded
VHS tape. WEB (Workstations at Evan's Basement) was too far at
night, so I'd dial into Berkeley's free PPP connection and telnet
to http://soda.berkeley.edu using my state of the art 33Mhz 386 with 16M
RAM via my blazingly fast 14.4K baud modem. From there I'd do a
lot of stuff, like checking email, reading motd, and stuff like
that. I'd listen to Arthur Rubenstein playing Chopin from a tape
set using my dad's old Panasonic tape player. Usually there were
a lot of work to be done, but since they're not urgent, I'd play
DikuMUD, chat/nwrite/ytalk to people online while listening to
Chopin's Noctures (on cassette tapes), on rainy, quiet, somewhat
lonely nights.
That was over a decade ago. I'm now ssh'ed into soda (now known
as http://csua.berkeley.edu) using my P4 3Ghz 1G RAM machine via broadbnd.
There are a lot of things I have to do but since they're not
urgent, I'm just checking motd, gmail, surfing, and chatting people
on AIM and Yahoo Messenger. Yes, it's a raining, quiet, somewhat
lonely night, and I'm listening to Chopin's Noctures, on MP3.
It's amazing how some things have changed, and how some things
haven't. I guess when you get old you start to treasure things that
do not change, or things that seemed insignificant at the time, but
now you have this strange fond memories of, like logging into soda.
I love soda and I hope it will never go away. -old man
\_ I'm not sure whether I should join in the reminiscing
or mock you.
\_ both is acceptable
\_ Did you ever get a girlfriend all those years?
\_ I was across the street drinking myself to sweet oblivion. |
| 2005/2/18-19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36228 Activity:high |
2/18 Why don't you just email your complaint to jwang directly rather
\_ We like to air our diry laundry here on the motd.
\_ Destruction of the MOTD (by repeated deletion, jive, or any other
method) is severly frowned upon and will result in the
termination of your account.
\_ Do we have proof it was jwang?
\_ The politburo doesn't need proof to investigate. Then
he has to either admit to it, lie about it, or ignore
them.
\_ Even a confession isn't enough to get squished anymore.
http://csua.com/?entry=32694
-meyers
\_ [ meyers reply deleted to spite him. -- ilyas ]
\_ Wow, that's twice I've been nuked, though you're
only owning up to it once. Is this part of your
"inverse golden rule"? -meyers
\_ [ ilyas reply deleted to spite him. -- !meyers ]
\_ Fuck you for forging my login. Bitch. Not even
ilyas would stoop so low. -meyers
ilyas would stoop so low. -jwang
\_ I am a god! A god, damn you! -meyers
\_ You post to the motd with the trolls you have,
not the intelligent discussion you ought to
have. -tom
\_ Sometimes, it's more fun to play with the
trolls -- expectations are so much lower.
\_ [ no sense being redundant. ] |
| 2005/2/17-19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:36214 Activity:high |
2/17 jwang, you are one persistent sunavabitch. do you have anything
other than partially nuking motd especially ones on politics as your
primary hobby? everything ok with your life lately, ala gf, job, etc?
if you need help just ask cuz i'm concerned about you. libraries?
Personally, I couldn't care less what their problems are.
\_ Some people are just assholes. Are you concerned about the personal
lives of the rightwing assholes who want to censor books from
libraries? Personally, I couldn't care less what their problems
are.
\_ The motd should be for CS-related questions. At least that's
what the rules are. All political-related crap belong in a
Yahoo groups, or whatever.
\_ Oh wow. You and kchang should get married by an SF mayor and
have beautiful adopted children. -- ilyas
\_ First of all, fuck you. Second of all, many of the people who
provide detailed useful technical advice on the motd are the
same people who are the most active in the politics threads.
Take away the politics, sex, humor, and random cultural
discussions and you take away the interest factor that brings
people back to the motd. I predict that the dickheads like you
who don't seem to care about anything but CS are also the people
with the least to contribute technically.
\_ The rules regarding posting to motd are readily available from
the csua website. Your interpretation is actually neither
justifiable from the rules or by established policy. motd is a
justifiable from the rules nor by established policy. motd is a
community that has certain social norms. Dictating what those
norms should be based on your own predilections independant of
the standards of the majority of the people in the community is
egocentric and stupid at best. If you don't like the standards
of the motd community, then I suggest starting your own forum
somewhere else in usenet: registering your very own domain is
quite affordable these days, and I suspect hosting a single
world-readable file would be no big deal. You could even set up
your very own world-readable file here on soda and post the path
here on motd. In short, there are many solutions to your problem,
here on motd. In short, there are many solutions to your
problem,
both technical and social, but you seem to have chosen the most
egoistic and childish one of the bunch. Perhaps you should
reevaluate your participation here.
\_ nice troll, you got 40 lines of response to a sarcastic
comment. -tom
\_ Could you please post these rules? You can't, because that
go at this thread. But yeah, I readily I admit that
part is not in them.
\_ Hi jwang! Thanks for responding.
\_ You know, I'm not jwang and I do this. Are you sure you're writing
to who you think you should be writing to?
\_ Why don't you just search and replace from his name to yours
then, asshole?
\_ I've logged jwang doing it also. That you also do it doesn't
imply jwang doesn't or that he's not more egregious than you
are. - !pp
\_ Sometimes motds need to get nuked. Sometimes you need to
get laid and go away.
\_ I've also seen it, repeatedly, for most of the past year. |
| 11/22 |