Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 46582
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2024/11/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/26   

2007/5/10-14 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:46582 Activity:nil
5/10    Apparently entrapment is hunky dorey if it catches terra-ists!
        http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/nyregion/10informer.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin
        \_ Doesn't look like entrapment to me.
        \_ Entrapment is generally "hunky dorey" is most contexts. It
           is a very weak defense that is mostly used as a last resort
           b/c nothing better is available. To argue entrapment is to
           concede that not only did one do the crime but also that the
           cops acted constitutionally under the 4th, 5th and 6th amend.
           (at least wrt to the particular suspect).
           Furthermore, entrapment is not a constitutional defense,
           and the federal statute (applicable here) is limited. The
           standard used in federal court is subjective predisposition
           (see JACOBSON v. US, 503 US 540 (1992)), which is *very*
           defendant unfriendly b/c it allows the prosecutor bring in
           all sorts of bad character to show evidence that the suspect
           was subjectively predisposed to commit the crime before the
           cops approached him/her. In addition, some courts take the
             \- yes, but it allows for the
                "bitch set me up" defense!
                \_ I suppose, but what is
                   the point of arguing
                   that one was setup, if
                   one will mostly likely
                   loose the argument?
           view that the police don't even need reasonable suspicion
           that crime is afoot before conducting a sting (see US v.
           GRENDON, 18 F3d 955 (1st Cir. 1994) - opinion by BREYER).
           Although in theory one can always argue that the police acts
           were so egregious that the violated the 5th/14th amend. due
           process rights of the suspect, it is hard to win under that
           unless the cops basically did everything (e.g. in the drug
           context, the cops need to do something like provide the
           buyer, the seller and the drugs).
           \_ But hey, maybe if these guys are real lucky they'll be able
              to BRING THIS UP in a court of law!  Oh woops, off to Gitmo
              with you.
2024/11/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/26   

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www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/nyregion/10informer.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin
DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI Published: May 10, 2007 It was August 2006 when one of the young Muslim men accused of plotting to kill soldiers at Fort Dix first broached the idea, according to the authorities. Talking to an informer who was secretly taping the exchange, the young man said that he thought he could round up six or seven other men willing to take part, and that a rocket-propelled grenade might be the most effective weapon, the authorities said. And he had one more notion: He wanted the informer to lead the attack, according to a federal complaint. I am at your services, the young man is quoted as telling the informer, who had presented himself as an Egyptian with a military background. That moment, recorded on tape and submitted in federal court this week in Camden, NJ, as the authorities charged six Muslim men in the plot, captures something of the complexity of using informers in terror investigations. The informer, sent to penetrate a loose group of men who liked to talk about jihad and fire guns in the woods, had come to be seen by the suspects as the person who might actually show them how an act of terror could be carried off. Indeed, over the months that followed, as the targets of the investigation spoke with a sometimes unfocused zeal about waging holy war, the informer, one of two used in the investigation, would tell them that he could get them the sophisticated weapons they wanted. He would accompany them on surveillance missions to military installations, debating the risks, and when the men looked ready to purchase the weapons, it was the informer who seemed to be pushing the idea of buying the deadliest items, startling at least one of the suspects. Since 9/11, law enforcement officials have praised the work of such informers, saying they have been doing exactly what they should be doing gaining access to the world of a possible threat, playing along to see just how far suspects were willing to go, and allowing the authorities to act before the potential terrorists did. In the case of the men arrested this week, the authorities have been emphatic: The men were prepared to kill, and to die in the effort, and the informer was vital to preventing any loss of life. Their intentions and motivation were obviously well established before the investigation began, said Michael Drewniak, a spokesman for the United States attorney in New Jersey, Christopher J Christie, who announced the arrests of the men on Tuesday. The authorities made the arrests and ended the operation, officials said, because the men were at last ready to acquire the weapons they had sought. As the case goes forward, the role of the main informer will almost surely be contested. Over the years, informers in terror cases have become the focus of efforts by defense lawyers and others to call into question the legitimacy of the investigations. They have often sought to show that informers engaged in entrapment. The police are allowed to use some enticement in cases, said Troy Archie, a lawyer for one of the six men charged, Dritan Duka. Certainly, the work of informers can sometimes seem murky. In one instance, the informer who was the main witness in a major terror financing case in Brooklyn in 2005 almost did not make it to the witness stand after he set himself on fire in front of the White House to protest his compensation by his FBI handlers. The informer helped win a conviction, but wound up being prosecuted himself for writing bad checks while working for the FBI In the criminal complaint they filed against the six men in New Jersey, federal prosecutors took the step of including information about an earlier problem involving their main informer. Prosecutors acknowledged that the informer, two months before he became involved in the Fort Dix case, had misled investigators in order to protect a friend. The prosecutors added that the FBI has been able to independently corroborate the information provided by the informer in this case through recordings and surveillance tapes. The complaint captures only a small portion of the interactions between the informer and the six suspects during the 14 months they were associated. Defense lawyers assigned yesterday to represent two of the central figures in the case objected to what they called the selective excerpts of conversations submitted by the prosecutors. The prosecutors have put out only snippets of conversations, rather than the entire context of conversations, said Rocco C Cipparone, who represents another of the six, Mohamad Ibrahim Shnewer. Tips To find reference information about the words used in this article, double-click on any word, phrase or name. A new window will open with a dictionary definition or encyclopedia entry.