3/30    Dear home owners who have|plan to buy 2nd/3rd/4th homes for the
        purpose of investment, PLEASE STOP IT! For each home you buy, you're
        taking it away from first time buyers. Last year, ~1/4 of the homes
        bought were investment homes. That's at least 3-4 million less homes
        for people who really want one. I mean, come on, what is this, the
        era of Monarchs and Aristocrats? Medieval period where the people who
        own land gets to own even more land? I thought social equality is
        suppose to improve especially after WWII. Something's wrong here.
        \_ Tough Shit -- getting ready to buy 2nd home.
             \_ We REALLY need to do something to the Chinese population.
                They're like the Jews in Germany in the 30s, buying
                and owning all the properties and making everyone else's life
                a total hell.
                \_ Yeah!  go go final solution!
                \_ But Chinese immigrants are relatively poltical quiet.  They
                   don't try to influence American politics to benefit their
                   home country like the Jews do.
                   \_ YOU TELL EM!  Damn Dirty Jews.
        \_ Ah, now it makes sense; Sour Grapes Housing Guy is someone who
           has been holding on to his money since 1998, waiting for the
           housing market to go down so he can buy.  -tom
           \_ He'll "save" $200K in the end, but will have spent $150K
              in rent and will have lost another $50K in deductions while
              having lived as a renter the whole time. We'll have to hear
              endlessly about the $200K he saved on his house price.
              \_ the amount that goes to mortgage interest is higher
                 then rent these days, even after tax deductions.
                 no point buying unless you think home will appreciate.
                 rent savings, tax deductions, etc. no longer are
                 sufficient justification for buying.  Only buy if
                 you think house will appreciate more than you can
                 earn with your principal invested elsewhere.
                 \_ Interest is higher than rent?  I rent out a house for
                    $2000/mo, and I'm paying a $1500/mo. mortgage payment on a
                    15-yr fixed loan for that house.
                    \_ yea, but when did you buy the house?  try buying one
                        now and renting it out.
                       \_ I bought it in 2000.
                          \_ I bought mine in 2004 and my mortgage interest
                              is around $1800.
                       \_ If you buy $650k house in the southbay, the MI would
                          be around $2k.  It's reasonable that a 3bd house can
                          be rented for over $2k/mo.
                       \_ Interest is supposed to decrease over time, but
                          rent is increasing.  Don't forget there are tax
                          benefits with interest.
                          \_ rent is increasing?  SourceP
                                                  \_ #t
                             are you talking short-term or long-term?
           \_ give me a break, there are more than one person on the motd
              that believe the current housing market is in a bubble, and
              I do own a home. -!pp
        \_ Please move to a communist state, where social equality is
           mandatory for everyone except the Chairman.
        \_ We need land reform for urban areas!
        \_ Yeah right. seriously though all the housing tax incentives
           are totally unhelpful to regular people wanting a home. They
           are designed to help investors (low capital gains tax on
           appreciation, bullshit depreciation writeoffs, mortgage writeoffs,
           etc.). All that stuff does is help those with leverage and jack
           up the price that much (since houses are sold based on monthly
           payments not on actual value). I'd also argue it harms the
           economy, relatively speaking, to have so much debt and assets
           tied up in these useless houses that in the end just sit there
           not producing anything.
        \_ Gotta love capitalism! The more wealth you own, the more wealth
           works for you. What are you gonna do, revert Reagan's great tax cut
           for inheritance and investment property? Revert Bush's income tax
           cut for the upper-class Americans? Unlikely.
        \_ Patience young Skywalker, you waited this long, don't be
           tempted by all the house talks in the news, etc. It IS a
           bubble, it will dip like it did at the end of 2001, that's
           when you go in with your savings. At any rate, it cannot
           sustain the current growth for another year, period. The
           best investors have a cool mind when everyone else is
           buying into the hype, like all those stupid people who
           decided to join Nasdaq when it is at 4000-5000. Even
           Greenspan acknowledged the housing market is in a bubble,
           do you remember what he said about the stock market back
           then? Trust yourself, don't buy into the hype.
           \_ You know, that's what I said in 2002, 2003, 2004. It's 2005
              and things haven't changed a bit. I don't have problems with
              housing going up. I have a lot of problems with people buying
              investment homes and claiming deductions and other loopholes
              in the tax system. If your 2nd/3rd home is an investment, then
              it is business, and should be subject to business tax rules
              and tax brackets. The current tax system and interest rate
              encourages everyone to buy a house, but made it even easier
              for existing home owners who could take a 2nd mortgage loan or
              reallocate and what not. And in the end, when there's only so
              much land to offer, the winners are the people who have the most
              land. Fuck GW Bush and fuck Reagan.
              \_ I admit it's easy for me to say this because it is
                 all in the past, but things are not quite the same in
                 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005. 2004/2005 can be
                 classified as red hot, but in 2001/2002 and even in
                 part of 2003, it was actually quite manageable.
                 Perhaps your expectation needs to be adjusted
                 slightly. Instead of waiting for a crash, watch out
                 for cool periods. Have realistic goals. As it is
                 right now, it's unlikely that the house you like will
                 drop back to 400k, but a instead of selling at 600+,
                 it may drop to 550 or something. Are you willing to
                 take it then? Don't get stuck waiting for it to go
                 back to 400k just because that's your limit, limit
                 can be stretched. The bay area is a special
                 situation, everyone I know, including myself, my
                 parents, their friends, have "bit the bullet" when
                 they bought the house and at the time it all seemed
                 very expensive. But sometimes you just need to do
                 that, even if you buy it relatively high, in the long
                 run, say 5-10 years, you are still likely to be ok.
                 (Still, I don't recommend you do that right now, in 6
                 month or a year, see what it is like, I don't think
                 my house will approach 1 million, trust me, it will
                 level off and people will stop bidding up as much)...
                 Vegas has already dropped 25% and one person I knew
                 who's in your accused category is in a hurry to sell
                 the home he has and guess why...
              \_ Think outside the box, do you really need to live in
                 the bay area? How about somewhere else? You DON'T
                 have a house yet, so you are not tied down. Find a
                 job somewhere else and see if you like it. Houses are
                 more affordable elsewhere. If you are Asian I can
                 understand your desire to stay in the bay area, but
                 if you are not, then why not? If I don't have a
                 house, I may very well move to shanghai. With my
                 savings, I can buy a very decent home in shanghai.
                 There are also other options as others have pointed
                 out. There are still 400k homes around. Your first
                 home doesn't need to be perfect, like your first gf. ;)
        \_ Do you absolutely need a house right now? or it would be nice
           to have one? Our advice depends on your situation.
        \_ Let them buy their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th home.  While they
           are waiting and waiting for them to appreciate, rent it
           from them for cheap.  Then, when the housing prices start
           falling, and their highly leveraged investments go south,
           and they are forced to sell at a loss, buy it from them for
           cheap.  Be merciless when bargaining for a good price.  Housing
           bubble's gonna pop!  bwahahaha!
           \_ what if they're so dang rich they already own all 5 homes
              and can wait 20 years?
              \_ Yep. Lots of landlords have been doing this since the
                 1970s. They bought all their houses/buildings for cheap.
                 If the portfolio takes a dip that's okay as long as
                 income stays good.