12/13   When I moved recently, the manager inspected my apartment and told
        me that I cleaned it well enough so that I do not have to pay for
        cleaning the kitchen and bathroom.  However, 2 weeks later I received
        a letter from the company owning the property that I owe $85 cleaning
        fee in addition to the carpet cleaning that I knew I should pay.
        I also found that on the move-out checklist that the manager and I
        both initialed she checked neither the clean nor the not-clean column.
        I am away and traveling and cannot (afford to) fight them in small
        court even if I have ground to win.  What can I do?
        \_ Send them a copy of the checklist and demand the $85.  Ask your
           former manager for help.
        \_ whoa, the exact same thing happened to me earlier this year.
           Basically verbal agreements mean... nothing. Did you record the
           conversation? If you did, you'd have a case. Otherwise, :(
           I learned my lesson, I hope you do too.
           \_ Recorded conversations are not admissible as evidence w/o the
              consent of those being recorded. What you need is statements in
              writing.
              \_ Why is that? So we recorded the terriorists conversation but
                 cannot use against them because we don't have their consent?
                 If we cannot apply the same kind of laws to our so called
                 enemy, then the law we think is so great, isn't so.
                 \_ Just so you're aware, there's a little leap from damage
                    charges on a rental to fighting int'l terrorism.
                 \_ That's a provision of civil law, not criminal.  For
                    wiretaps occuring in this country, you need a warrant, but
                    outside of this country, I don't think so.
                    \_ But why do we need their consent? If you overhead Simpson
                       said, "Yeah, I killed that bitch", but you can't use it
                       because obviously you don't have his permission? What about
                       all those movies where the agents are wearing a tap?
                       It sounds silly if the otherside knows that you are
                       recording, what the fuck do you expect to get?
                       \_ Re-read what I just wrote.  In criminal law, you need
                          a warrant, not permission from the other party.  In
                          civil law, it's meant as a reasonable safeguard of
                          privacy and free speach.  Otherwise you could just go
                          privacy and free speech.  Otherwise you could just go
                          around recording everyone all the time.
                          \_ Further clarification: You CAN go around recording
                             everyone all the time. Some people do. You cannot
                             submit any of it as evidence unless you have the
                             consent of those being recorded, though, acc to,
                             as pp above says, civil law.
                             \_ Actually in some cases (phones for one)
                                recording someone without telling them
                                is illegal.
                                \_ Not in New York! (but in CA, illegal, yes)
        \_ Call the manager, recall the conversation, and ask her to contact
           the company owning the property on your behalf.  While this may get
           you nothing, and everyone may be out to screw you, it's equally
           possible that this charge is something they hit everyone with
           reflexively; they may not even realize they've mistakenly hit you
           with it.
           \_ I once lived in a shitty apt. in the ghetto which got bought by
              some evil corporate real estate speculating fucks.  I spent months
              calling them every other day or so to try to just get a fucking
              lease to no avail.  It was literally impossible to talk to a
              real, competent human at this company, so with no lease, we just
              moved out(after giving them written notice a month in advance).
              I then spent weeks again trying to get them to give me the
              security deposit, again getting blown off, trying to call people
              who have pager numbers only and never call back.  After weeks
              and weeks of that, a check showed up for exactly twice what it
              should have been.  Fuck 'em.  If it had been a real human landlord
              I would have given them half the money back in a second, but
              I just kept the money, and i'm positive that they'll never know.
              I think they actually lost all the paperwork, and ended up just
              guessing an amount for the check.  Sometimes what looks like
              malice is in fact just stupidity.  In other words, I agree with
              you.