12/6    Any recommendations on a good starter motorcycle?
        - sick of parking tickets
        \_ You bastard!  When they said "RIDE BIKE!" they meant a foot powered
           bicycle like a 12 speed, not a sound poluting earth destroying
           monster!  RIDE BIKE!  RIDE BART!  RIDE BUS!  RIDE SHOES!
           \_ Perhaps he wants a eco-friendly, non-poluting natural gas
              or electric bike. Don't jump to conclusions.
              \_ Get real.  The OP was very clear.  Eco friendly was not on
                 the list.  It's about parking tickets, not my air.  Stop
                 trying to read in what isn't there.  And it's not like an
                 electric or natural gas vehicle is eco friendly anyway.  It's
                 all killing the planet, you're just moving the problem to
                 some other place.
                 \_ I was joking.
                    \_ That's not funny.  Destroying the environment for your
                       own self convenience is never funny.
        \_ Sure, something small (250cc), cheap, and used.  Spend your
           money on gear.  (You're gonna crash the thing with in the
           first 6 months, buy cheap and easy) Oh, and take the course.
           -jrleek
           \_ He's not 'gonna crash,' he just may crash.  -jor, 8 years
              75,000 miles, no crashes.  He should just buy a reasonably
              priced standard, like a Bandit or a non racer 600 sportbike.
           \_ I'd say a 250 is too small.  You will grow out of it to fast.
              Not to mention there aren't too many 250s around these days.
              Go with sometihng ~500ccs, get something with little or no
              plastic (you will drop the bike and plastic is expensive)
              and that you won't feel too bad about if you destroy.  Lots of
              generic 80s and 90s japanese bikes fit the bill.
           \_ Yeah, I've heard good things about the course.  Gear recs?
              I've heard good things about the Suzuki SV650, but I doubt
              I'll find one of those used. -OP
              \_ minimal reqs - boots, long sleeve shirt, jeans - mds
                \_ That's pretty minimal.  I'd say minmum is a Snell
                   approved full face helmet, boots, leather gloves,
                   leather jacket, and jeans.  In that order. -jrleek
                  \_ I read it as "reqs for the *course*" - they provide
                     the helmet.  Forgot gloves, they require that too.
                     Jacket is of course good, but not sure it's that
                     much benefit for the mostly-low-speed riding of the
                     course, it's warm...
                     \_ Was actually wondering about general gear recs? -OP
                        \_ jacket, gloves, helmet, boots, jeans.  Wear all
                           of them.  Don't be cheap.  Good gloves are a lot
                           more important than you think, they give you grip
                           on the trottle and even at 30mph that wind gets
                           COLD fast.  Not to mention losing your palm in
                           accident would suck.  (I've fallen with tough
                           leather gloves on, you tear those things up.)
                           Boots are probably the least nessecary of those
                           five things, but fuck it.  Don't be cheap.  Having
                           heard horror stories of people shaving down thier
                           ankles do you really want to risk it?  Once again,
                           expect that you will fall down at least once in your
                           first year.  If you aren't being too risky it
                 are only half has likely to get in an accident per mile
                           probably wont be that bad of a fall, but even a
                           minor fall can be really painful if you aren't
                           wearing gear.
        \_ Sick of having full use of your limbs and appendages too?
           \_ you can die slowly but surely, sitting in a cage in traffic,
              or you can accept a chance of sooner pain, saving an hour
              a day.  You can also go to dinner in North Beach on a Friday
              night without paying some bum $20 for 'his' parking space.
              \_ you can have your head run over by a semi. your life.
                 if you stay off freeways you have a much better chance.
                 but even then you have your red-light runners, people who
                 rear-end you for no reason, etc. etc.
           \_ What are the accident statistics for motorcycles and cars?
              \_ I poured over these one night and calculated that you
                 are only half as likely to get in an accident per mile
                 on a motorcycle than in a car. However, your accident
                 is 10 times more likely to be fatal. So the per mile
                 fatality rate is about 5X. -ausman (still riding)
                 \_ Any correlation between taking a class and reduced
                    fatality?  --genuninely curious
                    \_ Well, your insurance rates go down if you take the
                       class and generally that is a good sign.
                 \_ No, I have not seen anything convincing. Alchohol is
                    involved in 1/2 of all crashes, so don't drink and drive,
                    not even one beer. Do I really need to say this? Also,
                    2/3 of all injuries are caused by cars where the driver
                    does not see the rider, so visibility is very important.
                    Wear bright clothing, ride a brightly colored bike, have
                    loud pipes, do whatever it takes to be seen, especially
                    when you are in inexperienced rider. Eventually, you will
                    learn to adapt your style to your relative invisibility,
                    but at first it is quite a shock. -ausman
        \_ related question - what to watch out for (mechanically) in a
           used bike? How much should you expect to pay for a starter bike?
            - mds, in similar situation
                \_ that would depend on what you decide on, and whether
                   it's used or new.  ninja250's are nice because they're
                   so damn cheap at ~3k new and a bit less, used .  -suzuki
        \_ my boss crashed his harley. lost his ankle and about 4 inches
           above it.
        \_ Is he on King Of The Hill now?
           \_ A guy I knew in highschool crashed his car and lost his life.
              What's your point?
              \_People in the ER call motorcycles "suicide machines." Your
                \_ i thought they called them
                        regional variation: "donor-cycles" _/
              chance of surviving a car crash in one piece are higher than
              if you are on a motorcycle, assuming all things being equal.
        \_ a kawasaki ninja 250cc if you're small; a suzuki gs500e or a
           kawi ninja 500cc if you're much bigger than a 5'3" female.
           i endorse the safety class as well.  good stuff.  -suzuki