12/3    I have a brilliant idea for those who want to celebrate both
        hanukah and christamas:  get eight christmas trees, and set them
        on fire one at a time during the eight days of hanukah.
        if only independence day were in december also, then you could
        decorate all the trees with M80's.
        \_ You'd need 44 trees though, and htat smahus would be a bitch
           to use.
        \_ Anybody know approximately when "Christmas" became "Holidays"?
           Hanukah, Kwanzaa, and god knows what other religion has taken
           over christmas. It wasn't always like this.  christmas is christmas.
           This is a mostly christian country and the Dec 25th is the
           designated day celebrating the birth of christ.  why can't people
           accept it as such and stop trying to turn it into "the holidays"?
             -pissed at "the holidays"
                \_ Hint: Chirstmas used to be called Saturnalia. It time
                   of the year has been the "holidays" for a lot longer
                   that christendom has existed.
           \_ It's called the holidays because it includes New Year's.
           \_ Because Christianity sucks!
           \_ It's a PC thing.  I'm a Jew.  I call it Christmas.  I always
              thought calling it "winter holidays" or whatever was BS.
              to call it Christmas.
           \_ Actually, the church placed christmas on December 25th to
              co-opt the various pagan winter festivals held at that time
              of year.  Get some perspective and a clue.  (For one thing,
              Hanukah is far older than Christmas).  -tom
           \_ It's all PC crap.  I'm not Christian or Catholic but I still like
              to call it Christmas.  -- Chinese
           \_ On a related note, when did "old" become "used", then
              "pre-owned", and then "previously driven"?
              \_ Talk to your marketing dept.
           \_ BTW, Christ wasn't born on December 25th.
              \_ Uh oh, here come the January 8th zealots.  As if anyone knows
                 when some random jew kid to a carpenter and a hooker was born
                 2000+ years ago, or as if it matters.
                    \_ Most likely he was born in Aug or Sept not Dec.
                 \_ It matters because Jesus came to redeem the sins of this
                    world.
                    \_ Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine
                       \_ For your sins too.
                          \_ I took a crap today.  For your sins.
                    \_ Why would the date of birth matter even if he did?
                       Secondly, how did his death redeem anything? Billions
                       of people die. Many of those in worse ways than Jebus.
                       And he didn't even die, he's like God and stuff.
                       He only came because he finally collected 200000 sins,
                       and wanted to redeem them for a new clock radio.
                       \_ He should've held out for a SUV!
                       \_ Not just any death, for the wages of sin is death.
                          Redemption is only possible through the death of
                          one who is righteous and without sin, and who died
                          as a result of coming to reconcile the world with God.
                    \_ This assumes that there is such a thing as sin.
                       \_ Just like there is good and evil, right and wrong,
                          there is sin.  You can associate sin with wrong-doing.
                          \_ My point was that in the grand scheme of
                             things none of these concepts really makes
                             sense. Right and wrong are all concepts that
                             are based on a particular social arrangement.
                             Social arrangements come about because they
                             are mutually beneficial (ie won't kill you
                             if you won't kill me, helps us both, but in
                             the grand scheme of things it doesn't really
                             matter)
                             \_ I'm glad in don't live in your world where
                                it's ok to break into your home, club you to
                                death and rape your gf/wife.
          \_ We celebrate Yuletide
             \_ I understand Yule what the hell does tide have to do with it?
                \_ http://www.clorox.com