Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 17667
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2025/04/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2000/3/1-2 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:17667 Activity:moderate
2/29    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html#whyBoycott
        http://www.oreilly.com/ask_tim/amazon_patent.html
        \_ USE WINDOWS. WAREZ REWLZ. LINUX SUX.
        \_ Uh huh, communists and a guy who made his millions on the
           copyright system which is the printed version of the patent
           system.  I'm impressed.  I'm also stoned, stupid, and a libertarian.
           \_ There is a BIG difference between the patent system and the
              copyright system. You can have two books that describe how
              to use the same algorithm, in detail, and not violate copyright.
              But the way the PTO is going, you wont be able to have two
              separate programs that use the same algorithm, without
              violating patents.
                \_ Bullshit.  Stop repeating the ignorant drivel from the
                   slashdot crowd and do your own research.  Start with a law
                   degree.  "But I don't need no stinkin' law degree to know
                   that my rights to other people's work is being infringed!"
                   \_ One of the cornerstones of patent law is that no one
                      should be allowed to patent prior art (something which
                      someone has done before) nor any trivial extention of
                      prior art (something which would be obvious to anyone
                      in the field even without it having already been done)
                      The trick is that the patent office's track record for
                      letting prior art leak into patents is abysmal.
                      [Dubious reference to prior art accidentally deleted]
                      \_ Please quote the spec example and provide URL.  If
                         it was that simple the judge would not have granted
                         an injunction.  That's only done when there is a
                         high probability of victory.  If the example you
                         claim is in the cookie spec covered the whole patent,
                         then B&N's lawyers could have easily not only not
                         been on the wrong end of the injuction, but could
                         have had the patent declared invalid long before now.
                         Patent law isn't as simple as slashdot makes it out.
                      \_ Were any of the online brokers up and running in
                         1997?  Any one of their stock purchase systems
                         would constitute prior art if in place then.  -mel
                         \_ No, it wouldn't.  You have no idea what a patent
                            even is.  It is defined by the claims, not the
                            oft and over quoted summaries printed on slashdot
                            and other anti-IP sites.  Violate so much as a
                            single minor claim and you're infringing on some-
                            one else's property.
2025/04/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html#whyBoycott
Amazon made the choice to obtain this patent, and the choice to use it in court for aggression. The ultimate moral responsibility for Amazon's actions lies with Amazon's executives. We can hope that the court will find this patent is legally invalid, Whether they do so will depend on detailed facts and obscure technicalities. The patent uses piles of semirelevant detail to make this "invention" look like something subtle. But we do not have to wait passively for the court to decide the freedom of E-commerce. There is something we can do right now: we can refuse to do business with Amazon. Please do not buy anything from Amazon until they promise to stop using this patent to threaten or restrict other web sites. If you are the author of a book sold by Amazon, you can provide powerful help to this campaign by putting this text into the "author comment" about your book, on Amazon's web site. Amazon's response to people who write about the patent contains a subtle misdirection which is worth analyzing: The patent system is designed to encourage innovation, and we spent thousands of hours developing our 1-ClickR shopping feature. If they did spend thousands of hours, they surely did not spend it thinking of the general technique that the patent covers. So if they are telling the truth, what did they spend those hours doing? Perhaps they spent some of the time writing the patent application. That task was surely harder than thinking of the technique. Or perhaps they are talking about the time it took designing, writing, testing, and perfecting the scripts and the web pages to handle one-click shopping. Looking carefully at their words, it seems the "thousands of hours developing" could include either of these two jobs. But the issue here is not about the details in their particular scripts (which they do not release to us) and web pages (which are copyrighted anyway). The issue here is the general idea, and whether Amazon should have a monopoly on that idea. Are you, or I, free to spend the necessary hours writing our own scripts, our own web pages, to provide one-click shopping? Even if we are selling something other than books, are we free to do this? Amazon seeks to deny us that freedom, with the eager help of a misguided US government. When Amazon sends out cleverly misleading statements like the one quoted above, it demonstrates something important: they do care what the public thinks of their actions. People have pointed out that the problem of software patents is much bigger than Amazon, that other companies might have acted just the same, and that boycotting Amazon won't directly change patent law. If we mount the boycott strongly and lastingly, Amazon may eventually make a concession to end it. And even if they do not, the next company which has an outrageous software patent and considers suing someone will realize there can be a price to pay. The boycott can also indirectly help change patent law--by calling attention to the issue and spreading demand for change. And it is so easy to participate that there is no need to be deterred on that account. To help spread the word, please put a note about the boycott on your own personal web page, and on institutional pages as well if you can. Since the terms were not disclosed, we have no way of knowing whether this represents a defeat for Amazon such as would justify ending the boycott. Tim O'Reilly has sent Amazon an 13 open letter disapproving of the use of this patent, stating the position about as forcefully as possible given an unwillingness to stop doing business with them. Stallman has written a 15 letter to Tim O'Reilly in regard to the statement by Jeff Bezos, CEO of Amazon, which called for software patents to last just 3 or 5 years. Nat Friedman wrote in with an 18 Amazon Boycott success story. On the side, Amazon is doing 19 other obnoxious things in another courtroom, too. Please see the 37 Translations README for information on coordinating and submitting translations of this article.
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www.oreilly.com/ask_tim/amazon_patent.html
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