| WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ | |
 http://csua.com/feed/ | |
| ||||||
| 2006/7/21-22 [Computer/Companies/Google, Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:43752 Activity:nil |
7/20 Anyone know if it is possible to share your Google Calendar with
other people?
\_ Funny, I was just on this topic because I was trying to link
iCal with google calendar. To answer your question, click on
the link that says "Manage calendars". Click on the tab that
says "Calendar Details" and their should be a link to the
XML, ICAL, and HTML versions of your calendar. By the way,
if you want to link iCal to your yahoo and evite accounts,
one of my friends created this site: http://www.icalify.com
XML, ICAL, and HTML versions of your calendar.
\_ I clicked on Manage Calendars and I see the Calendar Settings
page with General, Calendar, Notifications, and Import Calendar.
However I don't see Calendar Details. What am I missing? -op
\_ Nevermind, you need to click on the triangle thing next
to your calendar name, then select Calendar Settings.
http://www.google.com/googlecalendar/event_publisher_guide.html
Thanks motd! FYI to see other people's calendars you do:
http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src= |
| 2006/7/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:43753 Activity:nil |
7/20 Can we arrest Ann Coulter already?
http://csua.org/u/gho
\_ obIfYouPayAttentionToAnnCoulterAnnCoulterWins
\_ Get a Dem elected Pres. and then get her to joke about that.
\_ That darned 1st amendment...
\_ Sure she can *say* the NYT is the devil, blah, blah, blah, but
intentionally setting off security measures by sending white
powder, just to be a bitch? That's gotta be worth a civil suit
at least, if nothing else to pay for wasted time. And with all
the anti-terrorism laws, it may even be worse.
\_ So, she was probably just "joking," but I have no
problem with her being brought in for questioning over
that sort of "joke." |
| 2006/7/21-22 [Transportation] UID:43754 Activity:nil |
7/20 Say I have an old vehicle that I intend to keep for several months.
I'd like to transfer its personalized license plate to a brand
new vehicle that I plan to purchase, while getting a regular
non-personalized plate for the old vehicle. What's the best way
to go about this?
\_ Craigslist |
| 2006/7/21-25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:43755 Activity:nil |
7/21 People were asking on MOTD why Syria hates USA? well, it turned
out that we had an economic embargo and a policy of regime change
against Syria since 2003:
link:tinyurl.com/mq24v
hmm... what are any incentive for Syria to stablize Iraq and
stop Hezbolla again? so we can take them out on our list?
\_ Hello, Syria is run by the fascist Ba'athist party. They haven't
had a real democratic election in two decades.
\_ Syria is about as democratic as Putin's Russia, *MORE* democratic
than Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and any member of UAE.
\_ Syria is a traditional lineal descendent dictatorship. It is
not possible to be less democratic than that, silly person.
\- Brunei is "less democratic". --psb
\_ Yes but they're cuddly and don't kill people. -John
\- what about the white slavery? i dunno if "cuddly"
is the right word.
\_ John is white and white is always right.
\_ Semi-cuddly. -John
\_ And the economic embargo and anti-Syria policy came out of thin air
and had nothing to do with Syria being a state sponsor of terrorists
or anything like that. Yup, yessirreeBob! They're just these
happy froods and along came Big Bad United States to pick on them
for no reason. Uh huh. Troll harder, silly person.
\_ They're evil. George Bush said so, and he always tells the truth.
\_ Shannon Elizabeth is half-Syrian. She is one hot piece of ass.
We need more Syrians in the USA. |
| 2006/7/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Health/Women] UID:43756 Activity:nil |
7/21 http://www.nightlight.org/snowflakeadoption.htm Christian adoption site supports baby on baby action? (Check out the picture on the front page.) \_ while already-born children go unadopted. nice. \_ Well, it kind of makes sense. It's about as anti-abortion as you can get short of live-birthing someone else's aborted fetus. \_ As I understand it, it's very hard to adopt a baby, demand far outstrips supply. It is easy to adopt older children, but most people don't want to do that. I wouldn't be surprised if this organization supported older child adoption as well, they almost certainly aren't against it, but it seems pretty reasonable to respond to demand with supply to me. \_ Sure, but in this case the supply of widgets that we're talking about are children who aren't being adopted. These are essentially "unwanted" children. So, isn't it better to solve the unwanted children problem with abortion? \_ As I just pointed out, adpoting babies is hard. If people know they don't want a baby when it's a baby (or in utero), finding someone to adopt it is pretty easy. (Assuming the baby is healthy). Since retroactive abortion is currently illegal, abortion does not solve the our current problems with unwanted children, who are older. Of course, part of the reason adoption is hard now is because abortion has cut off much of the supply. \_ It's even harder than that. Many court decisions have given the birth parents the right to "take back" parenting rights even years after the adoption goes through. \_ Yeah, does anyone think that's a good idea? |
| 2006/7/21-23 [Recreation/Dating] UID:43757 Activity:nil |
7/20 Well, that didn't last long: http://csua.org/u/ghq \_ same sex marriage / same sex divorce. Why discriminate against the gays to deny them this? \_ No reason to discriminate. I seem to recall that some of the arguments about same-sex marriage were that if gays were allowed to marry they'd stick together longer instead of bed-hopping. \_ Outlasted the drunk Britney Spears 50 hour marriage. |
| 2006/7/21-25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:43758 Activity:nil |
7/21 U.S. television and print media seem to place less importance on deaths
of Lebanese civilians
http://csua.org/u/ghs (Wash Post blog)
\_ I agree with many of the reader comments posted on this
page. I just wish my writing skill is better so I can
troll the motd with more credible opinions. |
| 2006/7/21-25 [Finance/Investment, Finance/CC] UID:43759 Activity:kinda low |
7/21 I understand valet tipping is now customarily $2 (up from $1).
Is it customary to tip the valet if, let's say, there is a required
$2.50 or $3 fee to use the valet, and you're driving let's say an
1999 Camry? What about required fees of $5 or higher?
What do you do?
\_ To avoid this stupid discussion again, look:
http://csua.com/?entry=27200
http://csua.com/?entry=42275
http://csua.com/?entry=42038
http://csua.com/?entry=41928
http://csua.com/?entry=36732
http://csua.com/?entry=34977
http://csua.com/?entry=34956
http://csua.com/?entry=33171
http://csua.com/?entry=26270
http://csua.com/?entry=18819
\_ Generally, tips are independent of any "mandatory" charge. A
gratuity is a thank you for good service and is voluntary,
I don't care what anyone says. -John
\- i'm sort of curious what your actual
tipping range is in USA restaurants.
say what percentage of the time do you
tip under 10%? BTW, do you also consider
wedding gifts optional? was it holube
who considered wedding gifts optional
but considers tips "mandatory"?
\_ was it passb who considers "holube" a clever
insult? Wedding gifts are optional if you
didn't attend the wedding. -tom
\_ They are mandatory if you did attend?
\_ By etiquette, yes. -tom
john advisory: are you from SF? the situation
in SF has gotten sort of complicated with the
minimum wage law change since it doesnt have
a tip credit ... it basically takes money away
from the worst paid employees [busboys, dishwasher
etc] and xfers more money to the much-higher-paid
and certainly over minwage frontroom wait staff.
one restaurant owner [i think at incanto] responded
by creating a "mandatory" service charge, which
made a lot of people go insane. then again most
people cant think in economically rational
manner and people seem to have amazing ability
for self-serving delusion per the corkage
article recently discussed in the motd.
\_ OK, we'll just cut your salary in half, then, and expect you
to make it up on tips. -tom
\_ Bad example; I'm an independent consultant and if I don't
deliver, or provide crappy service, I don't get paid. Why
should I be compelled to pay someone anything beyond the
indicated price if he's a surly shit? -John
\_ Gee, I didn't know I could refuse to pay my independent
consultants if they are surly. Does it say that in
your contract?
You are compelled to pay according to whatever the local
tipping rules are, because their salaries have been
cut with the expectation that they will make the rest
on tips. The U.S. would be a better place if waiters
earned a real wage and tipping were truly gratuitous,
but they don't and it's not. -tom
\_ No, you're able to not pay them if they do not
provide the service they are contracted to do. In
the case of service personnel, part of their job
is to provide me with civil, competent service. If
they do not, it should reflect on their earnings. And
tipping is fine, it gives me a chance to stiff the
guy throwing a snit while serving me. -John
\_ But it's not OK for someone to stiff you for
throwing a snit, of course. -tom
\_ Apples and oranges. A waiter might get a
$100 tip or a $0 tip. A better waiter will
usually make more than a poor one. I happen
to think that waiters actually benefit from
the current system. A decent waiter can make
$60K/year easy. Without tips, it's probably
half that.
\- 1. the true distribution is not $100 or $0.
and you need to talk in terms of percentages
anyway. a server at a boulevard may get
a $100 tip but will never ever get $0.
the waiter at the neighborhood pasta restaurant
is never ever going to get $100. so i think
the tip distribution has probably 90% of its
mass in the 12%-22% range. 2. i think tip
pooling among the frontroom staff is not
uncommon, so the poor waiter can be
shielded. 3. the waiters even benfitted
more from the fact that there is no
tip credit in CA when it comes to min wage
[this is for waiters at decent places].
4. i think $60k is a bit high for your
waiter salary estimate [do waiters
work 40hr weeks?].
See e.g.
work 40hr weeks?]. See e.g.
http://http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/28844
for some details on reasonably high end
restaurant operation. As well as:
http://csua.org/u/gi2
\_ If you have a crappy waiter, SOP is to give
the manager a tip and tell him to make sure
the bus boy gets it. Stiffing bus boys is
king lame. And Partha, my mom has a
culinary placement company in SF, so I'm
well aware of the tipping & wage situation.
I'm also aware that a good waiter can pull
upwards of $100k, a lot of it effectively
tax free. -John
\- What percentile would you guess $60k
and $100k are in terms of waiter incomes
in SF?
\- What fraction of waiters in SF would
you say make $60k or more? $100k or more?
Yes, I realize there are escalatory
ways of dealing with exceptionally
lame service, but I dont think most
people resort do that ... and they are
pretty rare events i'd say. i agree
routing the tip to the mgs is a good
routing the tip to the mgr is a good
way to deal with the situation.
[I personally weigh intentional things
like snooty obnoxiousness [Aqua] more
heavily than minor incompetence [dropped
plate ... that stuff happens]]. I've
sort of decided to put up with less
deliberately bad service and walk out
of places.
BTW, I do agree with you than the getting
rid of tipping is probably not the way
to go, although I dont think the
status quo is perfect. It's sort of
like rent control ... there are pros
and cons ... one regime not unambiguously
better than the other.
and cons ... one regime not "pareto
superior" to the other.
\_ I'm not interested in how much a
waiter makes, or what percentage of
waiters make >$60k (a good number in
more upscale restaurants). That is
not my problem. In a restaurant, I am
paying for the experience as much as
for the food. If a waiter is being
a shit (surprise, it does happen), I
should make sure the owner knows this
(maybe through the manager) as he has
a financial stake in the business. In
the meantime, I will not give "hey,
thanks, good job" money to a waiter,
bellhop, cabbie or anyone else who
gives me a shitty attitude (note that
I'm not talking about incompetence or
inexperience here.) There is no
obligation to tip, but if you feel
your service was ok or better, some
conventions apply. -John
\- I understand what you are saying.
I am just sort of curious what
%age of the time or how many times
per year the service hits the
threashold of not tipping,
rerouting the tip etc. In the past
15 years say, i can think of maybe
10ish incidents ... in one case
[in durant court] we left a 5cent
tip that was thrown at us as we
we leaving, but i really havent
caused a scene in a med/highend
place. [sometimes because i was
somebody else guest, in other cases
because the management made it up
sort of [free bottle of wine] etc.
if this is something you do 1-2%
od the time [like inb my case],
od the time [like in my case],
then it's more sort of an ad hoc
reaction, than your "standard
behavior for bad service". i think
the place where i most frquently
get annoyed are bars where the
bartender is lame about imple-
menting FIFO. i guess i have caused
a scene in a high end place but we
left a very very large tip :-).
Not often, to be honest--maybe about 10 times in the last 5 _/
years. I have a pretty high tolerance; usually I just leave
a lower tip if service is really bad enough to make me notice.
However, we frequently go to nice restaurants, and I know what I can
expect for a given price, so I don't hesitate to ask for a different
waiter. I've only walked out on a place once or twice, and usually
I'll tell the manager if something really pisses me off (normally
they're very cool about it.) I dislike waiters being snippy, being
ignored, having food take a very long time even when we ask about it,
pissy reactions when a dish isn't acceptable, and worst of all, "do
you want your change?" The problem is that most people feel a bit
intimidated and think they owe the waiter something, and are afraid
to speak up when something really sucks. -John
\_ Once a waitress argued with us that a certain item was not on the
menu. We said that it was. She said it was not. We again told
her it was. She again said it was not. We asked for the menu.
She was wrong. This was a fairly nice restaurant (Campanile in
LA). The manager overheard the whole thing and gave us free
dessert. That is acceptable and she got a 15% tip. Since two
of my sisters (and their two boyfriends) are in the restaurant
business (GM, chef, waitress, and sommelier) in nice SF
restaurants I can definitely say that $60K isn't a problem if
you are experienced and that you really shouldn't leave less
than 10% even if the service sucked. However, you should
complain to the GM. It is the GM's job to make things right.
Also, without tipping, I really do think waiters/waitresses
would make a whole lot less money and as a result the quality
of service (already poor in most cases) would get worse as
professionals left for other jobs. Tipping works well, because
when the restaurant does well so does everyone and when the
restaurant does poorly then everyone suffers. No sense keeping
waiters on at $60K+ when business is bad.
\_ Only once in the last five years have I not tipped, and that
was at the Grill place across the street from the Piedmont
Landmark Theater (formerly a Rolling Dunes): the entire wait
staff were rude and indolent. We did not tip, and we will not
be back. --erikred
\_ Funny, that's in my neighberhood, I go there all the time,
and get fine and friendly service. Chris, the owner and
often bartender, is the only shop owner on the street
(except for the yogurt place) who knows me and greets me
on sight.
One thing to remember is that waiters have to deal with
obnoxious customers a lot more often than you have to
deal with obnoxious waiters. We all have bad days. -tom
\_ Agreed, but this was beyond the pale. This was mid-day,
and the fan above our table was casting a shadow that was
making all four of us dizzy and queasy. We asked a waiter
if it would be possible to turn it off; he went off to ask
someone, but never came back to tell us one way or the
other. We asked another waiter and finally the person who
looked like the manager at the time, and were similarly
blown off. At the same time, our orders arrived and were
wrong; even though there were only three groups of
customers there including us, no one ever came by to see
if we needed more water, more food, or even the bill. We
eventually went to the bar to ask for our bill, and when
we paid, we left no tip. Please understand, I have friends
who are waiters and I am sympathetic to the plight of the
working wait staff, but this level of silliness was
untenable. --erikred
\- i think "routing around" the problem works when the problem
is a lame/snooty/etc waiter, but there are some establishements
that have that problem [farralon, aqua, various medium level but
hot and packed placed in the mission], i wonder if they will do
anything. or even at say zacharies, a place i think is sort of
customer unfriendly. re: the "feel they owe their waiter
something" ... i think in part they feel they will be thought
of a cheep [perhaps "justifying" in the waiters mind thinking
"these guys are declasse"] if they just leave a small tip without
elaborating on the reason. and most people may not have the
personality to say something beyond the tip.
\_ Weird. I have been to Farralon three times and Aqua once
and all four times I had great service. How many times
have you been to Aqua? -ausman
\_ I, too, had superb service at Aqua the one time I went.
--erikred
\_ If you leave a 10% tip they definitely get the idea
that you are either dissatisfied or declasse. You have
to tell the manager why if you want them to know which.
All I am saying is that 10% is low enough that they will
know something's up. I know people who stiff the
waitstaff and I've only do that in an extreme situation
(e.g. the one time I was asked to not patronize a
particular restaurant ever again). As for Zachary's, it
is very unfriendly to customers. The cash only policy is
evidence of that.
\- along with no RSVP, no pitchers of soda,
exploiting children etc.
\_ Again, stiffing the "waitstaff" is lame. The busboy
can't help it if the waiter's a prick. Nor can the
waiter if the restaurant has crappy policies. Use your
own judgment, and as psb says, let the GM know, they
need to be aware of this sort of stuff. But I've been at
Farallon 7-8 times and never had bad service. -John
\_ Tipping is fundamentally a way to enforce class
structure. The wealthy (restaurant/valet/hotel/taxi
patrons) want to have the right to punish the servants
for insolence. Look at the sense of entitlement
displayed in the comments in this thread; it's really
pretty sad. -tom
\_ Uh...I want to punish someone who gives me crappy
service and bad attitude. In shops, I can't do
this to the sales clerk directly, in restaurants I
can. Don't turn this into some pseudo-Marxist class
warfare claptrap. I's a not tryin to keep the po'
folk in they's place, just have a nice dinner
without some snotty shit spoiling it. 15% says
"you did a reasonable job, thanks". 10% = "you did
not do a good job." Anything less, including 0% =
"you suck, fuck you." That's my right as a
customer. -John
\_ Ponder these two questions:
1) How did the tipping rules get developed in
the U.S.? Why is the waiter tipped and
the shopkeeper not?
2) Why are relatively large tips customary
in the U.S. and generally not elsewhere? -tom
\_ The shop clerk (not shopkeeper, wrong
comparison) is not tipped because he is
not providing a service in the same class
as the waiter, shoe shine guy, taxi driver,
etc.; many salesmen also get commission.
\_ Commission is not the same as tipping.
And what is different about the class
of service being provided by a taxi
driver vs. a shop clerk? Non-circular
definition, please. -tom
\_ The shop clerk is selling me an item.
His manner of selling it, strictly
speaking, is not part of the overall
experience I am paying for. With a
waiter or cab driver, it is (how nice
is the service, how smooth is the
ride.) Same with shoe-shine guys,
or valets. What's your point? -John
\_ That's a crock; plenty of shops
provide personal service at or
above the level of shoe-shine-boy.
(Like a shoe store, for one). -tom
\- i agree there is something "american" about
the tipping system ... compared to a more
"socialist" system [modulo tip pooling], but
i think holube is overstating things. where i
think there is a class system is the disparity bt/
frontroom staff and the often minority back
of the house people like the dish washing crew
who are paid lower and certainly work hard
and get no part of the tip pool. under a sort
of rawlsian theory i'd rather see increased
spoils going to them rather than the wiatstaff
[in re: sf min wage change]. and i also think
at reasonable standard resturants the waitstaff
are not just passive agents to their fate ...
i think some probably consciously tailor
behavior to who the expect better tips from ...
and if they guess wrong, well they deserve to
lose out a bit. [i've seen white businessmen
in their 50s get much better service than
i did when in my late 20s at places like aqua.
analogous to the bartender who give better
service to hot chicks who are lousy tippers ...
at least in cash.]
\_ Hello, there is no tipping in Japan and yet the wait
staff are still professional and polite. I see no
reason to reward wait staff here who cannot do this.
I'm not expecting anything more than civility and
politeness; I'm certainly not looking for servility.
\_ Paying 15% in the U.S. isn't "rewarding" wait
staff; it's paying their wage. More than 15%
could reasonably be construed as reward. -tom
\_ This is an semi-invisible system in that the
general public is not usually made aware that
wait staff's salaries have been depleted to
the point where tips mean the difference
surviving or not. I agree that the situation
needs to fixed (i.e., adjust wages to comp),
but relying on customer support of an
unpublished system sounds broken. That said,
I generally tip 20%. --erikred
\_ It's not really an unpublished system;
it's part of etiquette. I agree that
the system is untenable, and I think it's
particularly onerous because it has its
roots in slavery and the culture surrounding
it. I certainly don't think I get better
service in the U.S. compared to overseas
in countries where tipping is not
customary (because they pay full wages).
-tom
\_ In many other countries, being a
waiter is a career choice. In the
US (except at high-end restaurants)
it is not. The quality of service
reflects this. However, I can't say
that I've gotten really great
service at dive restaurants in, say,
Europe either. I think your ideas
about the nature of tipping are
crazy. As I said before, I think
most waiters make out better by
earning tips than they would without.
\_ It is basically unpublished. There are
so many immigrants here in the bay area
for example that it's not realistic to
expect everyone to be on the same page
wrt tipping. I see that clearly with
coworkers. They have no idea. I never
really analyzed it in detail either...
sure you see your parents and others
do the 15% thing but the details are
not explained. How many people know
how the tips apply to busboys? What
do you do in buffet restaurants? The
tipping system seems like a good one
for a more homogeneously civilized
society but not apropos now. (One
coworker from India thought it was
ok to tip almost nothing at a lunch
joint. Of course he also liked to talk
about the dirt-cheap food and services
in India where regular engineers had
full-time chauffeurs etc.)
\- having a chauffeur in india is like
having somebody mow your lawn here.
but your major point stands: indians
treat service class people like
shit and tip like shit. the latter
is a social norm diffcult to change
but there is no excuse for the
former. a dramatic case of this is
how westerners and indians deal with
say trekking guides and porters ...
on the other hand, i think indians
are often pretty low maint when it
comes to "special requests". |
| 2006/7/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:43760 Activity:nil |
7/21 Huh, turns out, peace IS war (Thomas Sowell)
http://csua.org/u/ghu (townhall.com, a mouthpiece for conservatives)
\_ "One of the many failings of our educational system is that it sends
out into the world people who cannot tell rhetoric from reality."
I thought the current conservative climate would have found that to
be a plus. |
| 2006/7/21-25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:43761 Activity:low |
7/21 This is the best article I've found describing the recent Lebanon
escalation and its repercussions
http://csua.org/u/ghv (Wash Post, a mouthpiece for liberals, opinion)
\_ Faster, please.
\_ Faster and faster fast it goes
Hutalahey Hutalahey
\_ Faster, faster, fast it goes
Playing the sitar with my toes
Hutalahey, oh
Oheyoh
Hutalahey Hutalahey
Hutalahey, oh-oh-ey-oh
\_ I can understand Israel's right to defend itself, but this
whole thing is just stupid. It's one thing to act tough
when you are being attacked, but their response is
disproportionate. This bullying attitude toward their
neighbors will create more hatred toward Israel (and
therefore the United States) throughout the world.
Personally I think the only way they can make peace with
their neighbors is by helping them out, one way or the
other, instead of bomb the shit out of them at every
opportunity.
\_ They're doing a good job with their Pre-emptive Warfare,
because fighting evil is a good thing. God Bless.
because fighting evil is a good thing.
\_ you are funny.
\_ ie "Can't we all just get along"
\_ Um, you do know that Israel was one of the biggest donors to
pre-Hamas Palestine, right? They repeatedly tried to help the
bits of the country that _weren't_ attacking them. And
regardless, the sworn policy of Hamas and Hezbollah calls for
the destruction of Israel. Not "calls for that because Israel's
been mean lately", but "has called for that since Israel's
creation" There's not a lot of room for diplomacy with those
groups, and when those groups are in power, officially or
otherwise... what do you do?
\_ I don't know, but you can't seriously support what Isreal
is about to do - it is a collosal strategic mistake, no
matter what your politics. !pp
\_ What exactly is Israel about to and and why in your
expert-in-history-of-the-middle-east-and-military-stuff
is it a collosal mistake?
\_ Of course it is. The previous post was contesting
"...help neighbors out instead of bombing them at every
opportunity..." They've done both.
\_ the stragetic mistake Israel made, IMHO, is Israel's deliberate
act of punishing / weakening Lebanonese government. More stable
and wealthy Lebanon government it is, less justification for
Hezbolla to keep their arm. In fact, one would argue the reason
Hezbolla kidnapped Israeli soldier WAS to create incident to
justify their status quo. By destroying the basic infrastrue
Lebanon has build in the past 20 years, Israel is in effect
strengthening Hezbolla.
MAY BE, that is what Israel want, a strong, out of control
Hezbollah that Israel can justify their attack. I simply don't
know.
\_ Hezbollah doesn't help their cause with rocket attacks. It
rather proves Israel's point. Can you imagine rockets
bombarding Mexico from Texas and the US not stopping it?
Hezbollah should not fight back and show Israel to be
the aggressors.
\_ Hezbollah helps their 'cause' a great deal by lobbing
rockets into Israel. Their *only* cause is the complete
destruction of Israel. They don't hide that fact. They
are not in any way ashamed of that. They announced it
proudly to the world. What do you think their cause is?
\_ Lobbing rockets into Israel will only set them back.
It's not like that is going to destroy Israel. However,
it turns international opinion against them and proves
that Lebanon can't or won't control their activities.
Open war with Israel is not going to help Hezbollah at
the moment.
\_ Then why are they focusing their attacks on Lebanese
infrastructure? Bombing the rocket facilities seems
perfectly justified. Bombing highways does not.
\- I'm ceritainly not a knee-jerk israel supporter,
nor have i been following this "accidental war"
very closely, but hizbollah is not a group of nutjobs
at arms length from the lebanese state ... they hold
cabinet-level posts as well as being an appreciable
part of the legislature [10-20%?]. i recognize a weak
govt in a place like lebanon doesnt have complete
control over all parts of the country, but they also
cannot totally take refuge in "what can we do" ... i.e.
to israel's war not just with an outfit of fanatics
israel's war not just with an outfit of fanatics
but to some extent with the state. it's not as clean a
case of nobody expecting the US to distinguish between
the taliban [then the afgan state, more or less] and
al queda, but there is an element of that.
the mexico-texas thing is a strawman. i havent thought
about this deeply but consider the crossboarder
interventions in SE Asia in the 70s ... that might
be a better scenario to mine for what is a comparable
scenario ... china in vietnam, vietnam in cambodia,
khemer rouge, incursions into laos etc. do not taunt
LON NOL.
\_ Bombing the highways and runways prevents Syria from
moving more arms into southern Lebanon.
\- maybe this is a silly question but if israel
has clear evidence that syria and iran are
aiding and abetting HIZBOLLA, how come they
dont do a CPOWELL-style UN presentation with
the smoking gun. i'm not suggesting i or anybody
else doubts the connection, but it seems like
that sort of forces "the world" to confront the
issue ... especially the issue of state involvement
rather than state vs "group of crazies". then israel
can paint this as a proxy war against them by
two states.
\_ It isn't silly but it is naive. Let's say they
have this evidence in a way that is easily
presented to the UN and make the best presentation
the UN has ever seen and now the whole world is
convinced of it. So what? The whole world
already knows and believes Syria and Iran are
supporting terrorist organizations like Hamas
and Hezbollah. Why would the world 'confront'
them over it? Nations exist only for one
reason: to advance their own interests. It is
not in the interests of most of the world to
support Israel or oppose Iran (where their oil
comes from).
\_ I think your extended comments are a bit
naive. There are significant implication of
this being state vs state vs sort of a
"police action" type setting. It can put
Lebanon in the position of taking a postion
on Syrian/Iranian involement. I was looking
for a reply by somebody more knowledgable
about sunni-shiite interest, for example
[like which states are actually kind of
happy to see Hizbolla take a pounding] ...
the it's trivial to say people will act
in their own interest. What is meaningful is
to discuss what those interests are in this
scenario. |