8/25    My feeling wrt Prop-13 is that many proponents of Prop-13 also
        think that tax is too high, that we should do whatever we want
        with our own money, and that flat-tax is fair. Is this
        completely off?
        \_ Yes.  You're completely off.
           \_ Pretty much. These days, most Prop. 13 proponents are people
              owning property they haven't bought in the last year. A
              general reassessment would hurt that much.
        \_ I purchased my house about 5 years ago.  Today, similar houses are
           selling for more than 2x what I paid.  Should my property tax
           double?  My income certainly hasn't. -emarkp
           \_ I think YOUR tax should quadriple because I don't like you as
              fucking stubborn thick headed conservative dweeb who thinks
              the Iraq war has made the world a safer place to live. Fuck you.
           \_ Absolutely.  If someone is really willing to pay twice what
              you did, and you can't pay the taxes, I think you should
              be forced by economics to sell and move.  That's how it would
              work in any other state, and I know of no place in the U.S.
              where real estate is as blatant a rip-off pyramid scam as
              in California.
              \_ This is bullshit. The government should not force people
                 out of their homes just because some other person is an
                 idiot who overpaid for a property and will be foreclosed on
                 in 3 years. Now that other states are seeing the type of
                 price inflation that CA has had for the last 30 years
                 more and more states are realizing how progressive and
                 valuable Prop 13 really is.
                 \_ Even Prop 13 allows the assessed value to rise, but only
                    like 2% or whatever. I think that should be more like 5%.
                    So if prop values double they'd have to stay that way
                    for like 10 years+ before you reach that level. Gov't
                    wouldn't "force people out", it would tax them the same as
                    the others in your neighborhood. If prop values double
                    they'd still have all that equity sitting there.
                    \_ I am talking about the situation if Prop 13 did
                       not exist. People have seen their taxes rise 50%
                       in 3 years in other states (and in CA before Prop
                       13). Prop 13 prevents that. As for the rest of your
                       argument, read my example. Someone overpays for
                       a property and will lose the house anyway.
                       Meanwhile, the prudent consumer has to sell because
                       the government bases taxes on market forces?
           \_ For owners that bought properties that are similar in your
              neighborhood but bought/sold at different times, are they
              paying similar taxes?
              \_ No, they aren't. When I bought my house, which had been
                 in the family for 60 years or more, the property tax
                 went up a factor of 7. The old family was undercontributing
                 and now I am making up for it. That's fine, because I
                 budgeted for it. Some day I will reap that benefit if I
                 don't sell. It all balances out.
              \_ What if my neighbor and I bought the house at the same time,
                 but he's a better negotiator and paid less for the house?
           \_ I think it should approach that gradually, giving you time
              to evaluate your options. (and faster than 2%). But yes.
              \_ I disagree.
                 \_ That's just because you don't feel like paying taxes.
                    \_ I think more than half of the people on the motd
                       base their entire political philosophy on this one
                       principle: not feeling like paying taxes.
                       \_ I'd be much happier paying taxes if I can pick and
                          choose what programs my tax dollars fund.
                          \_ You can, it's called voting.
                             \_ Only if your guy ends up winning in that case.
                                And then the control is indirect at best.
                                I want a system that I can fund programs on
                                a line-by-line basis.