10/02   I know there are grad students here.  what good/bad things do people
        have to preport as far as dealing with UAW representation?
        \_ Yeah, good idea, join a mobster controlled union.  You need to
           understand that *all* unions' first thought is about what is good
           for the union.  If that also happens to be good for a union member,
           that is just a pleasant side effect for the member.  If you ever
           have to file a complaint with your union about work conditions
           the union will make everyone's life a living hell without actually
           doing anything to improve your life.  Unions as they exist today
           are no longer the benevolent pro-member entity they began as.
           \_ You have no idea why the Mob controlled unions and apparently
              have no idea why someone would join one now. Too bad.
              \_ And you've done *nothing* to correct my statement, just
                 added a zero substance comment.  Too bad.
              \_ oh, mr. union expert, could you please enlighten us then?
                 what are these good-for-nothing, lazy, and corrupt
                 organizations good for?
                 \_ Are you the same guy who was griping about how overpaid
                    union dockworkers are?
                    \_ One of many I'm sure.
                       \_ So you see the obvious logical flaw in complaining
                          how overpaid union members are and then claiming
                          that unions don't do anything, right?
              \_ Someone is forced to join a union because the union controls
                 the jobs.  If someone doesn't join, (s)he can't work in that
                 field.
           \_ This hits so close to home. Unions can be helpful if you have a
              real gripe against your boss (he's making you work late or go
              to his house or whatever)... you file a grievance, and he gets
              slapped on the wrist. Then you don't listen to him... you're in
              a union, he can't do much to you...
              \_ Or the union makes a lot of noise but doesn't do anything for
                 you, your boss hates you and treats you like shit (all within
                 union rules, though) and your life becomes a living hell, and
                 the union chalks up another victory because they gained more
                 space on the hallway cork board for union fliers at your
                 expense.  Gotta love that union!
              \_ My father-in-law works at the bakery in a Safeway.  He said
                 what the union does best is collecting union dues.  He often
                 has dispute with his boss on schedules, overtimer, missing
                 pay, raise, promotion, seniority, etc, and the union aren't
                 helpful on those issues.
                 \_ Where I work, we in the union don't let our boss treat us
                    unfairly (other than the shoddy pay)... we've filed so
                    many grievances against him that he's scared to act against
                    us... but he's been here only 3 years and we've been here
                    for over 20 (average, I've only been here 5 years).
        \_ The union over here does things like: recently the medical coverage
           became much crappier than it was before, more out-of-pocket and so
           on.  Instead of letting this just happen, the UAW is negotiating
           for us to not be so badly screwed over.