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| 2004/2/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:12271 Activity:kinda low |
2/15 Seth Schoen w/the best reporting I've seen on the new SF gay marriages:
http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/2004-02-15.html
\_ What's so great about this article, compared to other articles
written on this topic?
\_ How delightful! WIsh my wedding was that spontaneous.
\_ How delightful! Wish my wedding was that spontaneous.
\_ Yeah... Britney Spears spontaneous... I am willing to bet that
the more thoughtful members of the gay community are not very
happy about all the activism, because of the inevitable backlash.
The fact of the matter is that a good sized majority of Americans
think "marriage => man + woman." Gay rights must be protected,
but hijacking words will earn the gay community nothing but
resentment outside of enclaves like SF.
\_ WTF are "gay rights"? Do gay people have rights that
everyone else does not have? Are there black rights?
Midget rights? White heterosexual male rights? -John
\_ Settle down John. I just mean the rights of people who
are gay to the same stuff as other people. 'Gay rights
= rights of gays.' Settle down.
\_ Yeah, speaking of backlash, I will never vote for any more
protections for gays, etc. in my life. It's clear that gays
aren't for the rule of law. I didn't feel that way when it
was the mayor and some radical activists, but with gay couples
flocking to SF over the weekend, I've changed my mind. Also,
the argument that conservatives are "just forcing their
morality on everyone else" is irrelevant now.
\_ By definition, yes, marriage is between a man and a
woman. But honestly, I don't give a rats ass whether or
not gay people get married. Are you really that offended
by it? There are other groups of people I would rather
see having the priveledge of marriage being denied to
(like terrorists, criminals, assholes, etc.)
\_ It's not a matter of being offended. It's a matter of
sticking to word meanings. Word meanings and politics
are tightly linked, something noticed by a number of
people, including Machiavelli, Orwell, etc. Redefining
words to suit one's agenda, however laudable, sets a
very bad, very dangerous precedent.
\_ They're welcome to get married as long as they are required
to go through the same ugly divorce procedures and all the
brutal unfairness involved. And if there's any children
involved you'll be seeing the genetic parent screaming
bloody murder and denying gay marriage can exist. This is
going to be fun to watch. Marriage? You're welcome to it.
\_ BDG, is that you?
\_ Not this time. I'm happily married but marriage is
tough. It takes real work and effort and requires
real sacrifices. They seem to think it's some
utopian panacea of happy fun ball inspired legal
rights and benefits with no costs and *that* is what
I find offensive about the whole thing. I'm looking
forward to seeing the ugly gay divorces and child
custody battles and the support payments and wage
garnishings and all the rest. Gays seem to think
they're better than straights and only need a chance
to prove it. They're doomed if they get the same
rights *and* responsibilities as married people.
\_ Well, gays do have ONE advantage. I think
most of the problems in my marriage stem from
the fact that we don't understand the
opposite sex worth crap. Of course, that's
what makes it great too...
\_ "happily married"? That doesn't sound bitter
nor divorced.
\_ gay marriage, whether you support or not, is not legal because one
state/city can not impose such a legal transaction on another
\_ Interesting. So if I, say, get married in Arizona, it's not
legal in California because Arizona can't impose its legal
transaction on California? What a refreshing legal theory!
\_ Yeah, fuck that full faith and credit.
\_ Pretty much except for other laws that say marriage in one
state is accepted in others if the couple is male/female.
This is different from SF deciding to hand out marriage
licenses which are illegal because it's a state issue, not
a local one. A city has no legal authority to invent new
marriage laws. However, CA could decide to allow gay marriage
but Arizona would not be required to accept it.
\_ Liberals completely miss the mark again (and again and again).
The issue is not innately gay marriage, but the process you
go through to legalize it. As with every other leftist cause you
go through activist judges and subvert the republican process.
\_ That's the only way to get your agenda through when the majority
of the voting public doesn't agree with you because you have an
extremist position well outside the mainstream.
\_ I'm personally for male homosexuality. It helps to reduce
mating competition for the rest of us. Lesbianism, on the
other hand...
\_ removes a lot of bulldykes from the pool.
\_ that's great and all for men, but women... they'd rather
date a queer guy
\_ no, they'd rather date a guy acts queer, dresses nice,
smell nice, but pay for everything and fuck the hell out
of them behind closed doors.
\_ the term is metrosexual.
\_ Yeah, if we don't like a law, we'll just ignore it. It's open
rebellion. The governor should declare martial law, remove the
Mayor from office, and appoint a new mayor. |
| vitanuova.loyalty.org/2004-02-15.html To hear the passersby tell it, the staff down at City Hall had risen as one with joy at Mayor Newsoms instruction and volunteered to do everything in their power to carry it out. I imagined volunteers passing Gatorade to weary clerks who had been on their feet marrying people for fourteen hours straight no pun intended. I already had a plan to go out during the day I dont type on Saturdays, so I have free time as the world understands free time and it struck me from the front-page newspaper headlines that there was history being made in my own city. Zack decided to join me, and we took a long walk - from our home in the Mission all the way to City Hall, and thereafter all the way to the Castro, and thereafter all the way home, with additional detours on foot for meals and buying pencils which is a story in itself. We made it to City Hall by mid-afternoon and right away saw the TV trucks outside: first CNN and then the local station KRON-4. The main entrance to City Hill had been fitted with a red carpet and people were milling around with cameras looking absolutely ecstatic. Zack ran up to a couple of men who were wearing freedom to marry stickers and holding a lot of paperwork and grinning. I ran up and shook their hands too and thought that we had already seen history. We came up from Los Angeles today as soon as we heard the news, one of the men said. They must have gotten on the road at 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning - with, as we could see, their entire immediate families. We proceeded around the building to the other entrance to see what was going on. A police or sheriffs officer was standing at the back of an incredibly long line that stretched just shy of half-way around the building. To be precise, they were arguing with him and he was apologizing to them. The end of the line is there and nobody else is allowed to line up today. The Supervisor said I could still line up, he said we should just get in line. I just talked to the Supervisor and he said I would still be allowed to line up. Its like saying Officer, the Senator told me I could get married here. We walked around the side of the line and saw hundreds of same-sex couples in all states of dress punk to tuxedo to family heirloom dress to just-off-the-street-in-work-attire. At the back of City Hall, the line was making its way through the door past a group of about half a dozen well-wishers with big pink signs. One of them was carrying an American flag with gay rights symbols in place of the stars. Oddly enough, San Francisco regular Frank Chu was demonstrating too, with his usual sign that had nothing to do with same-sex marriage - instead about galaxies, a rocket society, and impeaching former United States presidents. I was pretty sure he was just trying to get on TV with his message. As soon as we made it clear that we werent in the line and werent trying to sneak into the line, everyone let us through. We had to go through security, but almost no one other than the newlyweds-to-be was trying to get in to the building, so it was extremely easy. Taking a back way, we ended up on the second floor where we heard loud and frequent applause coming from elsewhere in the building. We walked down a hallway and ran into the family of a straight couple ! They told Zack that all marriages that day were being performed up on the fourth floor, so we took the elevator up to the fourth floor crammed full of couples with their marriage licenses, and again in a wide variety of fashions. On the fourth floor, volunteers were directing everyone to the appropriate officiants out on the balconies that overlook the grand central gallery. Zack and I seemed to be the only people no associated with a particular couple, so we just charged on through, telling a guard that we just wanted to watch some weddings. All of a sudden we were out on the balcony with about twenty-five couples and their families and four or five slightly harried but extremely cheerful officiants. Someone down on the floor of the gallery started to play the piano. The balcony opposite ours was set up in the same general way: officiants, couples, families. We heard frequent applause as people there were pronounced spouses for life, and shortly the same thing happened right in front of us, perhaps three or four feet from where we stood. There is also the matter of the litigation against the City and the effort to prevent it from performing any more of these marriages - which is why, I think, the two women at the end of the line were in tears. Zack and I applauded for the couples as they were married, and shook hands with them. The couples were as diverse in age as they were in dress: I saw a pair of women get married and was sure they were younger than I am. And I saw and was most touched by several weddings of people who had likely been waiting even longer than 18 years. Two women of my mothers age, or a little older, were married right in front of me, and they started to cry. We saw a dozen or two dozen people get married on Valentines Day, who all very badly wanted to and who got their chance. A journalist in the hallway said When I got married, my wife made me sit around and plan the wedding for months and months. So Im kind of jealous or kind of frustrated that people would just wake up in the morning and get married. But if you look into these peoples eyes, you dont want to deny them this. |