Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 11715
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2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2004/1/8 [Computer/Rants] UID:11715 Activity:nil
1/7     Anybody know of any stable high tech companies that is NOT moving
        jobs to India?   Just for the heck of it, I searched Apple's career
        page.  All the openings seems to be in the U.S.  Any other tech
        companies that does this?  Thanks.
        \_ Cisco is keeping most of its real software development (IOS,
           NMS, VoIP, etc) in the US. The stuff they are moving to India
           is the monkey-push-the-button SQA, porting and IT web tools.
        \_ are european and japanese high tech companies outsourcing to
           india also?
           \_ A bunch of 'em, but it's mainly for routine shit (line
              programming, backoffice, call center.)  I know of very little
              architecture or proj. management type stuff that's going there.
              A lot of people I work with have had good experience with
              outsourcing things like bill processing or creating ppt
              presentations, but _nothing_ good to say as soon as anything
              innovative comes into play.  The consensus is, and sorry, I'm
              both a messenger and someone who's had this experience, that
              Indian techs will not wipe their ass without training or a
              manual, or take any sort of initiative.  On a side note, Roche
              pharmaceuticals is (attempting) to move all its IT support to
              Madrid from Switzerland, with round-the-clock support done by
              Mexico City.  It was either PWC's or McKinsey's idea, and it's
              looking pretty grim already.  The big "threat" for countries
              like Germany is actually Poland--lots of educated young people
              coming out of college and a _lot_ less bureaucracy than some
              of the more entrenched EU countries add up to factories moving
              there.  There are quite a few examples of Germans commuting
              to work in Western Poland nowadays.  -John
              \_ Yep.  It's a slow grinding downward death spiral for the
                 once great European empires.  Down to the last dregs before
                 they're just history book fodder.
                 \_ So then what does that say about our Empire?
           \_ EU is.  No idea if Japanese are.  Probably not since they're
              a bunch of super racists.
              \_ Yeah but I think they don't mind doing stuff with China.
                 It's not just India, Singapore is another big one.
                 \_ dont forget Russia
                    \_ which is outsourcing to North Koreans:
                       http://www.iht.com/articles/120603.htm
2025/07/08 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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www.iht.com/articles/120603.htm
SLAVYANKA, Russia Here in Slavyanka, or Slavic village, a European outpost north of the North Korean border, the Slavic population implosion is as clear as roadside meadows where cows graze among the concrete shells of abandoned houses. But the demographic transformation of Russias Far East, local politicians say, could have a silver lining of global importance: providing new homes for refugees from North Korea. The human drama of the estimated 150,000 North Korean refugees living clandestinely in northern China has so moved the United States Congress that bills were introduced in late November in both houses to ease American visas for some refugees and to pay for the resettlement of others. On a tour of the Khasan district last week, Sergei Darkin, governor of Russias Primorye region, said that he would take the North Koreans. This district of Russian territory is squeezed between China and the Pacific Ocean until it stops at a strip of North Korea eight kilometers, or five miles, wide. The United States is moving in the right direction to solve the problem, and I support them, he said. Djambulat Tekiev, the districts representative in the regional legislature, agreed, waving to a vast, empty vista here that evoked eastern Montana. Although the governor said he would welcome as many as 200,000 refugees, it is unclear whether the government in Moscow, which controls immigration policy, will want to risk increasing regional tensions and racial insecurities among Russians here. In Russias nearly 150-year hold on this region, attitudes have waxed and waned on Asian immigration. But during the 1990s, the population of this area contracted by 17 percent, to 67 million people. Much of the decline was attributed to Russians moving west, seeking higher living standards. But now, the nations economy is growing, the unemployment rate has dropped to 3 percent, and labor shortages are spreading. Federal officials have set a target of adding a million new workers. President Vladimir Putin has said it is strategically important to get more people to move into the East, Pyotr Samoilenko, the federal governments regional spokesman, said in Vladivostok. Two months ago, Darkin traveled by train from Vladivostok to North Korea. What he saw there, he said in an interview this week, gave him little hope for economic revival. Noting that his train clanked along at 40 kilometers an hour, stopping frequently because of power shortages, he said, They lack everything - fuel, cement, fertilizer. As North Koreas poverty forces it to abandon its socialist supply system, malnutrition and economic desperation are spreading, Masood Hyder, the UN aid coordinator in North Korea, said last week in Seoul. A million people fall into this new category of underemployed beneficiaries, underemployed urban workers who need assistance, he said. He urged global donors to contribute to a UN appeal for $221 million in aid for North Korea. With China hostile to the refugees, the Russian Far East could offer an alternative, said Mark Palmer, who was an American ambassador to Hungary as communism collapsed. We should work hard on him to let refugees come out into Russia and to create the kind of flows that I personally saw coming through Hungary in 1989, which really is what led to the collapse of East Germany. On his return from North Korea, Darkin said he would double next years quota for North Koreans working here on official labor contracts, to around 5,000. He said that less than a third of the areas arable land was being cultivated and that North Koreans would be farming, working construction and picking up garbage. North Koreas leadership is acutely aware that during the first half of the 20th century, Russian territory around here served as a base for Korean guerrilla units that fought Japans colonial government in Korea. Kim Jong Il, North Koreas leader, was born in 1942 in Khabarovsk, a Russian city about 720 kilometers up the railroad from here, where his father, Kim Il Sung, trained a military unit under Soviet supervision. The arrival of North Korean refugees here would not be without tensions. North Korea maintains a consulate in the port city of Nakhodka to keep control over the estimated 10,000 North Koreans working on contracts in the Russian Far East, and refugees here could become targets for harassment by North Korean agents. In 1996, North Korea is believed to have ordered the assassination of the South Korean consul in Vladivostok. A North Korean diplomat who came to the door of the consulate in Nakhodka this week declined to answer any questions. Koreas modern presence in this region dates to the 1860s, when Korean emigration controls weakened and Korean farmers started moving into Russian lands. By 1917, 100,000 Koreans were in Primorye and were the largest non-Russian group, with their own schools, newspapers and churches. After the Soviet Union fought a brief border war here with Japan in 1938, though, Stalin deported most of the border regions Koreans to Central Asia. Today, 40,000 ethnic Korean Russians live in Primorye and another 40,000 on the neighboring island of Sakhalin.