Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:January:12 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
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2005/1/12 [Computer/SW/OS/VM] UID:35670 Activity:high
1/11    I just installed Fedora 3 on VMware 3.2.0. Everytime I boot up,
        I get this error: "Setting vaddr to 0x0
        VMX|Msg_Post: Error
        VMX|[msg.log.monpanic] *** VMware Workstation internal monitor error ***
        VMX|BUG F(104):1147 bugNr=116
        Aneone else encountered this problem? I looked in their knowledge
        base but nothing on this particular error...
        \_ I've heard that the Fedora people do some crazy things for
           apparently no good reason other than to spite VMware.
           \_ so who has VMware + Linux + XP working, and what versions?
           \_ I caved in and have decided to download VMW 5 beta. Is there
              a time limit before it expires?
              \_ Yes, but I doubt it's less than a few months.
                \_ hm, I'd hate to reinstall VMW again when it expires. I
                   maybe that's actually good news, because if it doesn't
                   expire for a few months, that's enough time to find a free
                   warez version somewhere...
                   \_ Buy the damn software, you're using it.
                      \_ Don't listen to this man. Go find the warez. I see it
                         on bittorrent right now. Come on, do it.
                   \_ Uhm, I work at VMware...
                        \_ what's your email? Could I contact you please? thx
                           \_ You think a VMware employee is going to help
                              you pirate his own product???
2005/1/12 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:35671 Activity:nil
1/11    What does the @{ } syntax mean in Perl? As used in "man perldsc".
        Oh nevermind I just read about references. Perl sucks.
        \_ It's accessing an array, like @foo.  The expression inside the
           braces should evaluate to an array reference.  See "man perlref".
           \_ Yeah I just found that, thanks.
2005/1/12 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:35672 Activity:very high
1/11    Using SATA (serial ATA) as the one and only primary HD, any
        problem with boot up? How about with motherboards built in say,
        2002? Any problem with that? Pros/cons with SATA? Comments?
        \_ You expecting to install Windoze on SATA and have it boot?
        \_ I had to get a special driver floppy to install Win XP on a recent
           box w/ onboard SATA.  It wasn't too hard, though.  YMMV.  --dbushong
           \_ Does post SP2 work? If so, why can't you just slipstream
              in SP2 into the base Windows and burn a CD? A lot of newer
              desktop comps don't come with floppies. -williamc
              \_ slipstreaming worx theoretically but i'm lazy
           \_ adding to this, you need to keep around a spare floppy drive
              even if you don't intend to leave it in the system just for
              this reason (unless you have a bootable Windows XP SP2 CD
              with working CD key).  WinXP won't accept the SATA drivers on CD.
                \_ uh, painful. Why in hell would anyone upgrade to SATA? It
                   seems more trouble than it's worth.
                \_ I just built a new PC with SATA disk.  I didn't have to go
                   through all that when installing XP (pre-SP1).  It was
                   quite flawless.
                   \_ you mean you didn't need a driver floppy?
                      also, somewhat related, the link below says both serial
                      and parallel ATA drives will have problems formatting
                      to a full 160GB using pre-SP1
                      http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/faq/137_winxp.html
                      okay, here's an article that says a Soltek mobo didn't
                      need a floppy
                      http://www.3dxtreme.net/index.php?id=asusa8vdeluxe7
                      \_ No.  And I don't have 160GB.  Mine is 80GB from
                         Western Digital.
                         \_ yeah, after some research, it looks like your
                            mobo is doing some emulation that pre-SP1 is happy
                            with.  Even some of the newest mobos require a
                            floppy, though, like the Asus A8V (90nm Athlon 64)
        \_ No, get an Mac Mini.
           \_ it's not practical as a router unless you want to go wireless
              only for all your equipment since mini comes with only one
              network port.
              \_ I'm not recommending doing this, but I believe one could
                 add USB network adaptors to supplement the internal
                 ethernet port.
              \_ ifconfig en0 alias ...
              \_ I was hoping that Apple would include a PCI slot so that
                 I could drop in a dual or quad port PCI 10/100 card and
                 get a fast firewall. The usb 2.0 10/100 adapter is an
                 option that is probably okay for dsl firewalling but not
                 for other stuff.
                 \_ Yeah I personally don't see why having it quite that tiny
                    is useful. I think most people would find a larger size
                    with an extra DIMM slot, AGP slot, and 1 PCI slot more
                    practical than the "OMG it's tiny!" factor. But that's
                    marketing for you. I'm not in the target market.
                    \_ The extra dimm slot isn't a huge issue for me b/c
                       my firewalls don't need more than 512 MB ram. The
                       AGP slot is also not an issue b/c I have a separate
                       system to play games and the builtin video is enough
                       for TV output (DVD/AVI). I can see how having an AGP
                       slot would make it easier to upgrade but this would
                       also increase the size and perhaps make it harder to
                       cool w/ a tiny laptop fan. The lack of a PCI slot is
                       my biggest gripe, but I bought one anyway.
2005/1/12 [Transportation/Motorcycle, Computer/SW/OS/VM] UID:35673 Activity:nil
1/11    VMware Workstation = $189
        VMware GSX Server, unlimited CPU is $3388.
        Does anyone actually use GSX? Comment on actual experience
        on workstation vs. gsx?
        \_ People actually use GSX.  I doubt many people purchase the
           unlimited CPU license, though.  BTW, VMware is hiring, and
           they're both free to employees. :)
           \_ Also, I think VMware often gives out free copies of Workstation
              at campus infosessions.  There probably will be one in a few
              months.
        \_ No, get an Mac Mini.
2005/1/12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:35674 Activity:high
1/12    ChiCom troll, at least they didn't call Hu a running a dog:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4165209.stm
        \_ No, no. Hu's on second.  What's on first.
           \_ That's what I'm asking YOU!
              \_ I don't know!
                 \_ Third base!
                    \_ (... continued at the end of motd ...)
                       \_ wow.
                       \_ Most excellent. Copied to /csua/tmp/husonfirst to
                          save motd space.
2005/1/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:35675 Activity:high
1/12    Hypothetical question. Suppose that an alien being visits earth
        and greets everyone. How would this affect religion? Would
        religious people claim that it is Jesus Christ/Mohamed/Allah
        reborn? Or would they ditch their religion because they realize
        they're not the only beings in the universe?
        \_ There already is a religion like this, it's called the
           Heaven's Gate. Apparently you'll need to become a web designer,
           shave your head, get castrated, and commit suicide in a
           San Diego suburb.
           \_ More sodans should follow this career path.
        \_ I would answer but I'd just be ridiculed.
        \_ Why would other beings in the universe prompt people to ditch
           religion?  This is stupid.
        \_ Which of the above religions claim that earth species are the only
           beings in the universe?
           \_ suppose it happened, then it would beg a lot of new questions
              and ultimately question the completeness of religions. For
              example people could claim that the powerful supernatural
              events in the Bible/Koran were really caused by outer
              beings. Another example would be how reincarnation works--
              why we don't reincarnate into alien beings and vice
              versa.
               \_ Can you explain how, from a theological point of view, meeting
                  a new race of intelligent beings is different from discovering
                  a new race of intelligent creatures on Earth, such as a new
                  primate?  So they would be from another planet.  So what?
              \_ Which of the above religions knows ANYTHING about earth, or
                 species?
              \_ You meant "raise...questions", not "beg".
                 If people's beliefs don't exclude aliens, why do you think
                 this would change anything?
              \_ If an alian visits earth, what then implies that we don't
                 reincarnate into alien and vice versa?
        \_ What religion is the alien? If the alien professes belief in
           Christianity, for instance, then what?
        \_ It would depend on how the religions handled it.  Clearly, most
           religions would have difficulty brining an intelligent species
           on another planet into their canon; they'd have to resort to even
           more transparent rationalization than they do now, e.g. "Adam and
           Eve are how life began on Earth, God did something completely
           different on Planet X and didn't bother to tell us about it."
           Of course, most religious people are "read-only", but such things
           have an effect over time.  -tom
        \_ SATAN IS TRYING TO TRICK YOU!
2005/1/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35676 Activity:high
1/12    CNN (today)
        "The search ended almost two years after President Bush ordered the
        invasion of Iraq, citing concerns that Saddam Hussein was building
        weapons of mass destruction and may have hidden weapons stockpiles."
        Dubya (two years ago):
        "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt
        that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the
        most lethal weapons ever devised."

        Why can't CNN just be accurate?  They can write:
        "The search ended almost two years after President Bush ordered the
        invasion of Iraq, citing intelligence that Saddam Hussein was building
        weapons of mass destruction and concealing weapons stockpiles."
        ... isn't that much better?
        \_ why the liberals are always wrong-- if the WMDs are found,
           then Bush is right. If they're not, they've gone to Syria
           or have been destroyed, and that means Bush is still right.
           See how pointless it is to argue on this topic?
           \_ This is where you tell them about David Kay.  He was hand-picked
              and blessed by Dubya, went in almost certain to find something,
              and came back saying, "We were almost all wrong."
              Then you tell them about Duelfer--Kay's replacement and also
              hand-picked and blessed by Dubya--and his same conclusion that
              Saddam had destroyed all his stockpiles and did not have any
              active WMD programs and strove to keep them dismantled so he
              could get UN sanctions lifted.
              So, if there weren't any stockpiles, how could Saddam give them
              to Syria?
              It was only after the UN stopped monitoring at which he would
              rebuild his WMD programs.
        \_ um, MOST (more than 50%) of the Americans don't care about WMD
           and even some liberals don't care anymore. The pretext for the war
           was not important, the important thing is that MOST of the
           Americans think the war's a good thing and has made the world
           safer. Time to shut up my liberal mouth and just agree with MOST
           of the Americans.
           \_ You can try asking some of your Dubya-voting friends
              whether they think Iraq had WMDs.  My guess is the majority will
              say they're now in Syria, buried in the sand somewhere in Iraq
              perhaps never to be found, or Saddam just destroyed them right
              before the invasion.
               \_ I think that's what Safire says.  As I recall, as of a few
                  weeks ago, he's still convinced they'll turn up. If they're
                  right, I just hope they don't "turn up" when some construction
                  worker's backhoe busts through a drum of nerve gas.
              \_ yes exactly I have 2 Reddie friends and that's what they say
                 the problem arguing with them is that you can't prove them
                 wrong.
                 \_ One wonders why you are so sure yourself.
                    \_ I am not sure of myself, but I know that asking
                       someone to disprove something that is not falsifiable
                       is the sure mark of an idiot.
            \_ No, most Americans think the Iraq war was a mistake and
               not worth the cost in lives and treasure:
               http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
               At best, you can claim 50% for your case, at worst only
               30%.
               At best, you can claim 50% for your case, but the truth
               is, when asked the critical question "Was the war worth
               fighting" only 42% say yes. So you are losing the hearts
               and minds in the US as well as Iraq.
               \_ If the question were, "Was it the right thing to do to
                  send troops into Iraq", I bet your results would flip.
                  Choice of words is important in polling questions.
                  \_ I bet it wouldn't. Do you have any evidence of this
                     claim, or are you just wishing that it is so?
                     Read the results for the question "Do you think the
                     Iraq war has [made America safer]" Only 51%.
2005/1/12 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:35677 Activity:nil
1/12    Where's the guy who predicted that the Republicans would
        get a do-over in Washington?
        http://csua.org/u/aoj
        \_  "A two-week delay is a small price to pay to restore confidence in
             this election," said Republican Rep. Mike Armstrong. "This is a
             historic time and we cannot afford to rush this process."
             Oh, the Irony.
            \_ Again, you confuse imagined disenfranchisement with dead
               people voting, mysteriously appearing ballots, and poll
               workers actively changing votes.
        \_  Thus ends democracy.
        \_  Uh, the Opinion Journal article ended like this:
            "[Gregoire] would do well to recall what happened in Minnesota
            after the 1962 election for governor there. Republican Elmer
            Anderson won a squeaker and was sworn in, but a recount of disputed
            ballots ground on. A hundred days into Mr. Anderson's term, a panel
            of three state judges ruled that Democrat Karl Rolvaag had actually
            won by 91 votes. To end the legal wrangling, Mr. Anderson dropped
            any appeals and calmly left office, allowing Mr. Rolvaag to move
            into the governor's mansion."
            http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110006139
            \_ I lost all respect for that rag after they repeated the
               Drudge sourced Kerry intern rumours.
2005/1/12 [Uncategorized] UID:35678 Activity:nil
1/12    Where did the wall logs go?
        \_ ask aaron
           \_ aaron, where did the wall logs go?
2005/1/12-13 [Uncategorized] UID:35679 Activity:nil
1/12    Any recommendations for software that helps one generate acronyms?
2005/1/12-13 [Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:35680 Activity:low
1/12    How can I email a group of people individually if I have
        a list of their email addresses and names, and I want each
        email to begin with a personalized greeting (e.g. Dear Mr. A)
        Any platform is ok. Thanks.
        \_ write a script.
        \_ This used to be called "mail-merge" in the days of paper
           mail which needed to be printed. I'm sure a similar functionality
           exists within most modern day email programs for something like
           this, especially Microshaft Outlook.
        \_ Oh please don't be a spammer.
                \_ don't worry, I'm not; it's for school. -op
           \_ anyone here work for a spam company?
        \_ perldoc Net::SMTP
           The remainder is left as an exercise to the reader. -dans
2005/1/12 [Computer/HW/Drives] UID:35681 Activity:high
1/12    DVD can't be read by windows.  How do I convert to Mpeg-4?
        \_ google afterdawn. then teach me how. thx!
        \_ Is there a complete sentence in there struggling to get out?
           \_ You're just being snotty.  --!op
              \_ Nope.  I actually don't understand what is being asked.
        \_ How are you going to convert a disc if you can't read it?
           Or do you mean that:
             a) you don't have an MPEG2 decoder
             b) the disc is region-locked and of a different region
           ?
           \_ DVD players on a DVD player.  When you put it in my computer
              DVD, you can't read any files using WinExpl.  You can't play
              it on my DVD player either.  However, I can copy the DVD using
              my computer.
              \_ "DVD players on a DVD player"?  Huh?
2005/1/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, ERROR, uid:35682, category id '18005#9.54947' has no name! , ] UID:35682 Activity:moderate 66%like:33439
1/12    Where did the wall love go?
        \_ I have backups as of 12/17, but that's missing the last 3 weeks.
           Maybe another root knows.  Personally, I have no damned clue about
           how all the wall stuff works (maybe the script borked itself).
           *shrug* - jvarga
           \_ If you could restore to /csua/lib/wall, with the owner as
              someone other than aaron, it would be much appreciated. jon
              has a log of the last couple months of wall in his home dir,
              which could easily be split into logs for each day if anyone
              is so inclined.
              \_ Happy birthday. - jvarga
                 \_ Really? I don't see anything new at /csua/lib/wall
                    \_ backup is from 17 December.
        \_ ask aaron
           \_ aaron, where did the wall logs go?
              \_ I don't think aaron logs on anymore
                 \_ why, did he have an aneurysm after realizing he's one of
                    the people he hates so much?  -tom
                    \- he is fileld with recursive hate
           \_ Did aaron wipe the wall log or something? -clueless
              \_ He was probably embarrassed about his meltdown
                 (even by aaron standards) yesterday.  So he is cleaning up
                 the tracks.
                 \_ Ooo! Details please!
                    \_ Wall-spamming.
                 \_ Has he been squished yet?
                    \_ This is the frist thing I've seen in a while that
                       might actually require squishing.  He's been a
                       real bung hole.
                       \_ Awww.  I miss 'squish ilyas' threads.
                          If we squish aaron, there would be one less person
                          to point and laugh at, at least for me. -- ilyas
                          \_ If anyone really tries to get you squished, I
                             think you might be suprised how many people that
                             would piss off.  No one can say you don't
                             contribute to making the motd what it is.
                             \_ I am not entirely sure that's a compliment.
                                -- ilyas
                                \_ It is and it isn't.  Let me put it this
                                   way: I continue to disagree with you on
                                   almost everything, and you've really pissed
                                   me off with some of your posts, but they've
                                   caused me to think quite a bit about things
                                   I never would have thought about otherwise,
                                   and to reconsider some things.  What more
                                   can someone who writes about ideas ask than
                                   that they cause other people to re-think
                                   their own ideas?  That's what I read the
                                   motd for.
                                   \_ Hmmm.. I was going to say I had a
                                      similar feeling about aaron, that
                                      is, the motd just wouldn't be the
                                      same without his mad ranting.
                                      However, unlike ilyas, as far as I
                                      know aaron has never actually
                                      contributed anything other than
                                      bile to a conversation.
                                      \_ You know, I think you're confusing
                                         motd with wall.  I'm a total motd
                                         addict, but I don't do wall, and I
                                         still don't really know who this aaron
                                         guy everyone keeps talking about is.
                                         Can you point to a aaron/bile post
                                         in the motd archives?
                                         \_ I actually don't wall either.
                                            I know aaron exclusively
                                            through the motd.  Just search
                                            "--aaron" on KAIS motd.
                                            Although, I have to admit,
                                            after looking through the
                                            archives, that aaron does
                                            occasionaly post something
                                            useful.
           Some bile fresh from the archives _/
           http://csua.com/?entry=33982
           http://csua.com/?entry=33404
           \_ I assumed this was a parody when I saw it.
           http://csua.com/?entry=33330
           http://csua.com/?entry=33214
           It's not hard to find examples really.
           \_ I was disappointed because I couldn't find any of aarons
              enlightened postings on religion.
              \_ I don't think he signed any of them on the motd.  There are
                 plenty in wall.
        \_ aaron   ttyEJ    64.62.161.106    Mon Jan 10 15:14 - 15:25  (00:10)
           drwxrwsr-t  9 root  contrib  512 Jan 10 15:16 /csua/lib
2005/1/12-13 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:35683 Activity:nil
1/12    Dear motd censor, cease and desist or reap the whirlwind.
        \_ Your (likely) faulty assumptions include:
           1) There is only one censor.
           2) A censor would care about a whirlwind.
           \_ 3) That everything that looks like censorship really is, and is
                 not just random accidents.
                 \_ So all the long, multi-entry political conversations
                    are deleted, interleaved between the other conversations
                    which are preserved. Right.
2005/1/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35684 Activity:insanely high
1/12    All political stuff where the Bush supporters were schooled
        has been wiped in the name of national security.
        \_ You still lost ! Get over it!
           \_ And you are still a cowardly anonymous censor.
                \_ I didn't do any censoring. In fact, I never have.
                   You can't handle the truth.
                   \_ Well, someone sure as hell keeps doing it.
                      Which makes you an apologist for an anonymous
                      cowardly censor, which is probably even lower.
2005/1/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:35685 Activity:insanely high
2/27    Editorial defending Washinton Post's pro-war stance:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8531-2003Feb26.html
        [Resuscitated from 2003:]
        \_ The huge problem with this editorial is "[Saddam] unquestionably
           possessing and pursuing biological and chemical weapons".  It's
           still a question.  If a group of smart people can't get this
           right, what can you say?
           \_ What smart people?  The French?  Or the Germans who sold them
              all of it between '91 and now?
              \_ The Washington Post editorial staff, of course.
                 If you can do a good job convincing people of your assertions
                 please contact Colin Powell.
           \_ hmm... theory of evolution...
           \_ It is not a question to anyone with half a brain. Bush lied
              to you, get over it, stop trying to rationalize it.
              \_ So how do you know there are no WMDs? -- randomly curious
                 \_ I'm not the guy you're asking, but:
                    "While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions
                    have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally
                    destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in
                    1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad
                    resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a
                    policy ISG attributes to Baghdad's desire to see sanctions
                    lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force
                    against it should WMD be discovered."
                    Duelfer report, Key Findings
                    \_ So basically you take the word of Duelfer (and later
                       Kay).  That's fair, just keep in mind findings !=
                       truth, and people may reasonably disagree.  I mean
                       there's only so much inspectors can do in a hostile
                       country.
                       \_ They've had access to everyone in the old government
                          and all sites for >18 months.  They've talked to
                          everyone.  There were no weapons.
                       \_ Duelfer was second.  Kay was first.  They both
                          agree.
                          Remember, these guys were handpicked by Dubya.
                          Kay went in KNOWING he'd find weapons.  He came out
                          saying, "We were almost all wrong."
                          Don't you think he could have said, "We still think
                          he had them, they could be in Syria or buried
                          somewhere, or Saddam blew them all up just before
                          we attacked."  I'm sure Dubya would have loved that,
                          and Kay would have loved to tell him that -- so
                          why didn't Duelfer or Kay say those things?
                          Instead, Kay threw away his career, and Duelfer
                          finished the job.
                          \_ Because an inspector has to announce what he has
                             to given the evidence.  No evidence = can't
                             credibly say weapons are there.  No evidence
                             != no weapons are there.  Do you see the
                             difference?
                             \_ I'm going to agree with the guy who said
                                "beyond a reasonable doubt".
                       \_ Duelfer also reported that Saddam's generals thought
                          there were WMD's.  See:
                         http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/chap1.html
                          \_ "Senior military officers and former Regime
                             officials were uncertain about the existence of
                             WMD during the sanctions period and the lead up
                             to Operation Iraqi Freedom because Saddam sent
                             mixed messages."
                             This doesn't translate to "no doubt" and
                             "slam dunk" exactly.
                             \_ From the same link:
                                "Saddam surprised his generals when he informed
                                them he had no WMD in December 2002 because his
                                boasting had led many to believe Iraq had some
                                hidden capability, according to Tariq .Aziz.
                                Saddam had never suggested to them that Iraq
                                lacked WMD. Military morale dropped rapidly
                                when he told senior officers they would have to
                                fight the United States without WMD."
                                Sounds like his generals were expecting it.  If
                                Saddam's own generals were uncertain, how could
                                we ever have had intelligence showing now WMD's?
                                \_ That is why Dubya's demand that Saddam
                                   prove something that was not falsifiable
                                   was such a dumbass thing for him to do.
                                   Not as dumb as you for going along with it
                                   though, since you are a Cal student and
                                   should understand logic better than that.
                                   \_ Not dumbass. Clever like a fox.
                                \_ If Saddam had no WMDs, how could we ever
                                   have intelligence showing there was
                                   "no doubt" Saddam had WMDs?
                                   \_ It was definitely beyond a reasonable
                                      doubt.  Statements like "no doubt" and
                                      "slam dunk" were mistakes.
                                      \_ Are you saying that it was beyond a
                                         reasonable doubt that WMD stockpiles
                                         would be found?
                                      \_ Bullshit. The people who knew the
                                         most and had no axe to grind all said
                                         that SH probably did not have any
                                         WMD. You were conned.
                                         that it was uncertain whether SH
                                         had WMD or not. You were conned.
                 \_ I don't know as in am 100% certain, but lets say that
                    it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
              \_ The post you are responding to was from Feb 27, 2003,
                 pre-invasion
                 \_ Oh, I see. My bad. DAMN THAT LIBERAL MEDIA!!!
        \_ Why is this resucitated? Just some random thing or is this relevant
           to anything?
           \_ [wall is talking about aaron in 2003, so I revived this]
              The point is that the Post editorial staff, for some reason,
              knew unequivocally that Saddam had WMDs and active WMD
              programs.  Dubya reaffirmed this certainty on the eve of
              the war.
              When the Post claimed this, poster said, "What?"
              When Powell showed the Security Council, China, Russia, and
              France said, "What?"
              When Tenet said it was a slam dunk, Dubya said, "What?"
              When Tenet showed him how it was a slam dunk, Dubya said, "What?"
              -- but still took the country to war
              "No doubt", "slam dunk", "unquestionably" indeed.
               \_ CAC will delete this in five minutes, because it makes
                  Bush look bad.
               \_ The time order was more like Bush told us that it
                  was certain that SH has WMD, then the press started
                  partoting him.
                  parroting him. Read _Manufacturing_Consent_ by Chomsky.
                  This is how it always happens.
                  \_ To be precise, Dubya himself never really stated it
                     clearly until his speech on the eve of the attack.
                     It was mainly Cheney and other minions saying this.
                     Dubya stated it somewhat in State of the Union 2003, but
                     not too clearly.
2005/1/12-13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:35686 Activity:moderate
1/12    I have a friend who has to go to Taiwan for work occasionaly and he
        says all he can find is wierd bland seafood dishes.  What are some
        things he should order to satisfy an American palate?  And how do you
        pronounce them?
        \_ Tell him to try the durian.
        \_ "Mahk Doh nalds" -- You might have to order a royale with cheese.
          \_ you mean MAI DONG LAW!!! Every old Chinese immigrant I've met
             say that. And GO BO-KO-LAI! Go Beahs!
2017/09/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:January:12 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>