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| 2004/10/8 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33982 Activity:high |
10/8 Bush was secretly wired during the debate
http://salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/08/bulge/index.html
\_ It was a personal Holtzmann shield.
\_ too much risk of nukular explosion in case of lasgun usage.
\_ I believe he was wearing something, but I'm curious-- why didn't
they position the bulge lower, in the small of his back? I can fit
an ipod or even a thin novel just above my belt with very little
visibility, and that's not even wearing a jacket.
\_ Transmission distance. This proves liberals are smarter: Kerry's
magic cheat pen with wireless receiver and handwriting-
recognizing transmitter had a wider operating range.
\_ so...let's suppose that Bush *was* secretly connected to some
wireless device during the debate. Do you really think that
they couldn't use something more compact? It just doesn't add up.
And where is the wire going to his ear? most cameras were pointed
at his head, and that wire would surely be visible.
\_ It could be a receiver/transmitter with a tiny earpiece you can't
see. Look at websites for spy stuff, we can assume that Bush
has access to the best.
\_ Right. Let's assume he has access to the best. Does that
really include a bulky rectangular thing worn on the back
under one's shirt?
\_ Well, if you wanted to be super-cool you'd use encryption,
spread-spectrum, and transmit constantly so it just looks
like background noise. That all requires more electronics
and battery power. To top it off, they might not have
wanted to bother with some custom design, and chose to go
with something 'off the shelf' that may not have been
optimized for size.
\_ here's something off-the-shelf:
http://www.thespystore.com/covertcommunicationequipment.htm
I don't see any reason why spread spectrum or encryption
would take more space or batteries. this is just
what 10 seconds with google turned up. I'm positive
that if Karl Rove really wanted to beam spread spectrum,
encrypted signals into W's ear, no giant battery
pack would be needed. One wonders how many kids are
cheating their way through school with these things,
though.
\_ Both encryption and spread-spectrum require extra
chips, and cen be fairly demanding (several watts)
depending on what encryption or DSS you use.
Continuous transmission (to look like background)
would up the power requirements a lot. Thing of a
cell phone operating continuously, with more
complicated signal processing and you get a sense of
the power requirements. CDMA uses DSS but it's only
spread over (I think) 1.5MHz. You'd want a much
wider spread for being sneaky.
\_ Alcoa is up today.
\_ Heh. -- ulysses
\_ Let's assume GWB had access to Star Trek Tech(c). There was
obviously no one feeding him lines through it.
\_ 'Obviously'? How do you figure that?
\_ Did you *see* the debate?
\_ Read the article. Their expert seems to be saying that this is
both plausible and technically possible to do wirelessly. Given
how poorly Bush did in the debate, however, I'd almost believe
that someone hacked the feed.
\_ Yes, I go to Salon for all my non-partisan information. Could
you use something less biased like the http://democraticrepublic.com
or http://www.johnkerry.com next time? Thanks!
\_ Not everything http://salon.com or http://drudgereport.com reports is
a lie.
\_ Salon: Abu Ghraib scandal, Drudge: Monica Lewinsky
\_ Liberals, trying to outstupid stupid. They might win.
\_ Couldn't somebody just start blasting the debate with broad-spectrum
whitenoise (or move up and down through the frequencies until Bush
looks pained)? Or what about a cell-phone killing EMP?
\_ Broad-spectrum white noise would work, but it would disable every
wireless device in the room. (Did the moderator have an
earpiece? Did somme backstage techs?) Shifting frequency would
not jam it if it uses spread-spectrum. An EMP would fry the
cameras.
\_ So no one has mentioned the fact that Bush wears body armor when
he's in public (at the insistence of the Secret Service)? It
appears that Salon is doing spin in a response to the video showing
Kerry violating the rules of the 1st debate. See
http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc57.htm for a link to the video.
\_ Don't delete my mocking or I'll delete your post.
\_ KERRY BROUGHT A MAGIC DEBATE-WINNING PEN! HE CHEATED!!!
\_ i thought it was a magic penis
\_ "I'll take 'The Penis Mightier', Alex."
\_ Personally, I think he was packing heat. Probably that pearl
handled revolver that they took off Saddam Hussein when he
was captured.
\_ 1. If he wore body armor because the secret service required it,
you would not know about it. Making that info public just
tells potential assassins to go for a head shot.
2. Presidential candidates are also given a SS detail, so both
Bush and Kerry would be wearing it. Any shots of a Kerry
bulge?
3. Body armor is BULKY and HOT. You would see it much more
clearly, and the Bush team would not be asking for 70 degree
room temperatures.
\_ all three of these "arguments" are weak as hell. #3 is
true of some armor but not of the light-duty armor
plates that are thin and flexible. i find it
instructive about your cognitive abilities that you
make arguments which rely on the assumption that you
know everything there is to know (about, for example,
body armor). #1 is a really shitty argument and doesn't
hold up to any sort of logical scrutiny. compare to
"if bush had a bodyguard, you wouldn't know about it."
#2 assumes that all security details have the same
threat model. to sum up, you're a fucking idiot. --aaron
\_ you suck --aaron
\_ Is this what Google Millionaires do with their spare
time? Send some of that green my way, aaron, and I
guarantee I'll have more fun with it.
\_ I know that facts carry less weight than your from-the-ass
speculation, but here's at least one reference:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26143
"The concealed body armor currently worn by George W. Bush,
the Secret Service and many law-enforcement folks..."
Hackworth is not exactly a Bush partisan.
\_ WorldNetDaily is a piece of shit.
\_ Then read the same commentary at:
http://www.hackworth.com/21jan02.html
And find out who Hackworth is before dismissing him. Dumbass.
\_ just a technical point. If you wear body armor that
doesn't have bulky plates, it won't protect you against
assault rifle rounds. It's mainly for pistols.
Hackworth should know better. |
| 5/24 |
|
| salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/08/bulge/index.html -> salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/08/bulge/index_np.html That's the latest rumor flooding the Inte rnet, unleashed last week in the wake of an image caught by a television camera during the Miami debate. The image shows a large solid object be tween Bush's shoulder blades as he leans over the lectern and faces mode rator Jim Lehrer. The president is not known to wear a back brace, and it's safe to say he wasn't packing. So was the bulge under his well-tailored jacket a hidden receiver, picking up transmissions from someone offstage feeding the pr esident answers through a hidden earpiece? Did the device explain why th e normally ramrod-straight president seemed hunched over during much of the debate? You have two options: Subscribe now, or w atch a brief ad and get a free day pass. |
| www.thespystore.com/covertcommunicationequipment.htm The COMM-1's design simplicity allows for out-of-the-box use. |
| www.drudgereport.com/dnc57.htm XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN OCT 03, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX DEBATE MYSTERY: DID KERRY HAVE CHEAT SHEET? Section 5, pages 4-5 of the binding "Memorandum of Understanding" that was negotiated and agreed upon by both political campaigns states: "No props, notes, charts, diagrams, or other writings or other tangible things may be brought into the debate by either candidate.... Kerry appears to unfold some sort of paper seconds later, at his podium. A top Kerry campaign source explained to the DRUDGE REPORT late Sunday how Bush supporters were once again trying to distract. "This is more lies from Republicans, who are hoping for a quick change of subject away from the president's performance, and the new polls." When pressed on the fact that even brandishing a pen from his jacket would have violated debate rules, the Kerry staffer laughed, adding, "See you at the inauguration, Drudge". |
| www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26143 Casey Joyce was shot in the back by an insurgent in Somalia i n 1993 and killed. Both of these deaths probably could have been prevented had the grunts be en wearing decent flak jackets. Joyce was wearing the Army's best at the time, the Ranger vest, but he'd removed the armor plates at the back to lighten the load. Chapman, like most of our Special Forces operators on dangerous missions, wasn't wearing any vest at all these warriors say they're too heavy, too cumbersome. Dave Hunt, who ran black ops in bad places li ke Cambodia, Iraq and Bosnia, says, "The stuff we had slowed you down an d cut your endurance." Body armor dates back to the 13th century, when metal plates were worn un der chain mail. But by the 14th century, the knights were decked out in so much armor from head to foot that their horses could barely trot. If a horse went down, that knight was as immobilized as a turtle on its back easy slicing for a swordsman. Because of the lack of mobility an d the subsequent introduction of gunpowder, the savvy knights eventually did what many of our defenders are doing today gave body armor a pass . Even though metallurgical skills and weaponry improved a thousandfold fro m the days of the Knights of the Round Table to World War II where the US Army took 823,483 casualties (80 percent infantry) our grunts st ill went into battle much like the Johnnies and Rebs in our Civil War, t otally unprotected. The same was true in the early part of the Korean Wa r where the Army took 109,958 casualties (84 percent infantry). By the end of that conflict, flak jackets were available, but they were heavy, made for warriors sitting behind a weapon, not for grunts slipping thro ugh the bush. While these jackets were greatly improved during the Vietn am War where the Army took 230,398 casualties (80 percent infantry) they were shunned by most grunts in the field because of weight, unwield iness and the fact that they became sweat suits in tropical conditions. Today's technology can produce a lightweight jacket that will stop most b ullets. The concealed body armor currently worn by George W Bush, the S ecret Service and many law-enforcement folks does the trick. Sure, the president should have the best vest that money can buy, but I h ave a hard time understanding why guys and gals in the Secret Service ge t priority over our grunts, especially our Special Warfare operators. Co mpare the casualty stats and ask yourself who needs the jackets more. The Army has been spending serious money and too many years in search of the right flak jacket when it's already on the shelf. With just a fracti on of the dough spent on research and development since Casey Joyce died , our Special Ops guys could already have been wearing the finest body a rmor available. It costs a minimum of $1 million to train a Special Forces operator. News week spent $700 to buy a high-quality, lightweight vest for my trip to S omalia without having a nickel invested in my education. After 56 years around conflicts, I've seen generals up front where the dy ing occurs no more than a dozen times. You can bet your old boots that i f they were the ones hanging out in Death Valley, the Army would have th e lightest, most up-to-date body armor going. If the members of Congress would allocate just 1 percent of the energy th ey spent trying to zap Clinton over Monica or they're about to spend goi ng after Bush over Enron and put it toward looking after our boys in the trenches, you better believe decent body armor would be made in every s tate in the Union. And, for a change, the porkers would be doing something patriotic. Just a sk widows Chapman, Joyce and scores more women in black. David H Hackworth, author of his new best-selling "Steel My Sol diers' Hearts," "Price of Honor" and "About Face," has seen duty or repo rted as a sailor, soldier and military correspondent in nearly a dozen w ars and conflicts from the end of World War II to the recent fights agai nst international terrorism. |
| www.hackworth.com/21jan02.html Another Untold Story Of Not Looking After The Troops by David H Hackworth Special Forces Sgt. Casey Joyce was shot in the back by an insurgent in Somalia i n 1993 and killed. Both of these deaths probably could have been prevented had the grunts be en wearing decent flak jackets. Joyce was wearing the Army's best at the time, the Ranger vest, but he'd removed the armor plates at the back to lighten the load. Chapman, like most of our Special Forces operators on dangerous missions, wasn't wearing any vest at all -- these warriors say they're too heavy, too cumbersome. Retired Special Forces Colonel Dave Hunt, who ran black ops in bad places like Cambodia, Iraq and Bosnia, says, "The stuff we had slowed you down and cut your endurance." Body armor dates back to the 13th century, when metal plates were worn un der chain mail. But by the 14th century, the knights were decked out in so much armor -- from head to foot -- that their horses could barely tro t If a horse went down, that knight was as immobilized as a turtle on i ts back -- easy slicing for a swordsman. Because of the lack of mobility and the subsequent introduction of gunpowder, the savvy knights eventua lly did what many of our defenders are doing today -- gave body armor a pass. Even though metallurgical skills and weaponry improved a thousandfold fro m the days of the Knights of the Round Table to World War II -- where th e US Army took 823,483 casualties (80 percent infantry) -- our grunts still went into battle much like the Johnnies and Rebs in our Civil War, totally unprotected. The same was true in the early part of the Korean War -- where the Army took 109,958 casualties (84 percent infantry). By the end of that conflict, flak jackets were available, but they were hea vy, made for warriors sitting behind a weapon, not for grunts slipping t hrough the bush. While these jackets were greatly improved during the Vi etnam War -- where the Army took 230,398 casualties (80 percent infantry ) -- they were shunned by most grunts in the field because of weight, un wieldiness and the fact that they became sweat suits in tropical conditi ons. Today's technology can produce a lightweight jacket that will stop most b ullets. The concealed body armor currently worn by George W Bush, the S ecret Service and many law-enforcement folks does the trick. Sure, the president should have the best vest that money can buy, but I h ave a hard time understanding why guys and gals in the Secret Service ge t priority over our grunts, especially our Special Warfare operators. Co mpare the casualty stats and ask yourself who needs the jackets more. The Army has been spending serious money and too many years in search of the right flack jacket when it's already on the shelf. With just a fract ion of the dough spent on research and development since Casey Joyce die d, our Special Ops guys could already have been wearing the finest body armor available. It costs a minimum of $1 million to train a Special Forces operator. News week spent $700 to buy a high-quality, lightweight vest for my trip to S omalia -- without having a nickel invested in my education. After 56 years around conflicts, I've seen generals up front where the dy ing occurs no more than a dozen times. You can bet your old boots that i f they were the ones hanging out in Death Valley, the Army would have th e lightest, most up-to-date body armor going. If the members of Congress would allocate just 1 percent of the energy th ey spent trying to zap Clinton over Monica or they're about to spend goi ng after Bush over Enron and put it toward looking after our boys in the trenches, you better believe decent body armor would be made in every s tate in the union. And, for a change, the porkers would be doing something patriotic. Just a sk widows Chapman, Joyce and scores more women in black. |
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| drudgereport.com The staff is planning to do several stories on this and not just one big article. For days now, the NYT has been chasing down the rumors of what the LA TIMES may be investigating about Carter but didn't have much success. Finally, this afternoon, the NYT made some headway, at least enough to rush out a story. |