Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 33404
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2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2004/9/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:33404 Activity:very high
9/7     Kerry cosponsored bill banning gun he waves
        http://www.drudgereport.com/dncg.htm
        \_ a waste of a great gun :(
        \_ MacGyver wised up and became Colonel O'Neal
        \_ pistol grips on shotguns are way less accurate then
           regular grips, they should let the twinks keep them
           \_ it could help in close, urban situations where accuracy
              of one shot isn't the primary concern.
             \_ most experts agree, pistol grips should be removed
                cuz they suck in urban situations
               \_ how bout for full auto shotguns
        \_ TWO MILLION JOBS LOST! $9 BILLION "UNACCOUNTED FOR" IN IRAQ!
           A UNILATERAL WAR BASED ON COOKED INTELLIGENCE! SHUT THE FUCK
           UP YOU ASS! I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK! FUCK YOU!!!!!!!111!! --aaron
           \_ Amen.  There's not really enough "stfu, u teh gay" in US
              politics right now; in addition to agreeing wholeheartedly
              with Mr. Smith, I welcome this move to introduce better form
              into the political debating process.  -John
              \_ You are cruel, John. -- ilyas
           \_ I would like to note at this point that I just gave my
              largest donation to date to the DCCC and DFA, and I now feel
              much better. Thank you for your concern! --aaron
              \_ lose one for the flipper!  Let me tell you my impression
                 \_ you really should stop posting this "quip" unless you're
                    trying to sound totally inane.
                 of Kerry.  I was watching him on a book interview on CSPAN.
                 He was asked what books he was reading or would
                 recommend.  He stammered on for 3-4 minutes and
                 effectively said nothing.  He stated one childrens book
                 he had read and something about the importance of the
                 Bible.  The rest of his response was nuanced evasive
                 nonsense about what types of books, how many... on and on.
                 He could of named 5 books in 30 seconds and been done with
                 it; instead he was afraid to define himeself. Someone
                 with this type of personality does not make an
                 effective executive, especially during national crises.
                 \_ Let me tell you my impression of GW Bush.  I was watching
                    him read _My Pet Goat_ for seven minutes after he learned
                    of the 2nd tower being attacked.  He knows how to delegate
                    authority -- someone else was taking care of it, so he
                    doesn't have to worry about it himself.
                    didn't have to worry about immediate action himself.
                 \_ That wouldn't define him. naming a few books with
                    no explanation?  I don't buy that about effective
                    exectutives. Bush wasn't a particularly effective
                    executive. (And I doubt he could give a fast and direct
                    answer to that question anyway). Bush had both houses of
                    Congress Republican. This thing about strong
                    leadership is some kind of folklore. Simple folks love
                    to think that down home backwoods wisdom always beats
                    fancy book learnin'. If something can't be stated in
                    a simple sentence they don't want to hear it. The
                    real world isn't black and white and involves nuanced
                    decision-making. People base the whole image of Bush
                    on "he invaded Iraq => strong!" That decision had
                    many consequences and many of us think it was wrong
                    at that time, and inadequately planned. His economic
                    policy is sustained by record-busting deficit spending.
                    Bush's only other executive experience was the company
                    he ran into the ground. NCLB act a funding disaster,
                    and a bizarre thing in principle from a traditional
                    conservative standpoint (taxing billions from the
                    states, then handing it back to them on a restricted
                    and problematic basis). Industry-coddling energy,
                    environmental, and medicare policies.
                http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/top10_lies
                http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/top10_flipflops
                http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/specialinterests
                     You guys keep saying "Kerry is nothing but not Bush".
                     The reason this is somewhat true is that's pretty
                     much what we want. Bush on the other hand is nothing
                     but "invade the middle east".
                    \_ This is bigotry.  You are speaking of people you
                       have no familiarity with.  You think you are
                       smarter than everyone else, and thus, entitled
                       to tell them how they should live and what they
                       should believe.  Inside every leftist is a
                       tyrant.  So are so vain you can't even see
                       yourself for what you are.
                       \_ You're saying I have no familiarity with "simple
                          people"? I can't even respond to this because
                          you don't even make an argument here. You're
                          simply lashing out with incoherent bile. My
                          point with that was to criticize the idea, which
                          certainly exists, that intelligence and nuanced
                          thinking is unneeded and even undesirable in leaders.
                          I see this notion in the popular mythology. You
                          should look up what bigotry means. And inside
                          every rightist is a coke-sniffing pedophile.
                          \_ Your use of the work "simple people" is
                             telling.
                             \_ what does it tell?

                                \_ It's usually considered derogatory and
                                   belittling when you call someone "simple".
                                   \_ It's an abstract group of people. It
                                      should only offend people who consider
                                      themselves simple, but then they wouldn't
                                      think it's derogatory. Or maybe they hold
                                      the "dumb is wise" view, in which case I
                                      I heartily belittle them.
                    \_ For your criticism to be relevant it is incumbent
                       on you, or anyone, to propose a cogent alternative
                       foreign policy paradigm.  No such policy was ever
                       proposed, all you and left could offer was
                       appeasement.
                       \_ appeasement of what?  Saddam did not have WMDs and
                          was not attacking anyone.  Letting countries run
                          their own business is not "appeasement."  -tom
                       \_ False. Alternative paradigms were loudly proposed.
                          You can even look it up and read about it, if you
                          choose. I can't objectively prove such alternatives
                          could be as cogent as "invade". It would be pointless
                          to go into that whole argument right now, I think we
                          both know what's been said.
                          \_ Where?  What? By who? Here is concise
                             explanation of that which you speak:  appeasement,
                             cede sovreignty to the UN.
                             cede sovreignty to the UN.  You want
                             "nuance" terrorists, its rediculous.
                             \_ false again. a U.N. vote != ceding sovereignty.
                                appeasement applies to giving in under threat.
                                and the saddam <=> terrorism relevance is
                                primarily a concoction.
                     \_ So I can sum up your position as: you want
                        entitlements from the government?  You believe you
                        have a ordained right to a job, free health care
                        and other free gov't services?  Right?
                        \_ No, you can't, because I didn't say that. I'm not
                           a libertarian though, so basically the gist of
                           that is true for most people. Here's another case
                           where a little "nuance" might let you acknowledge
                           that there are more possibilities than pure
                           libertarian versus full-on communism. I don't know
                           anybody talking about "right to a job" and you use
                           that as a straw man because you have no argument.
           \_ The other 50% of the country would like to keep the country as it
              is and away from the likes of you. C'est la vie.
        \_ There is no pistol grip on that shotgun. You are no gun owner or
           you would know that.
           \_ The deal is that the language of the bill defines "pistol
              grip" broadly:  "... grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other
              characteristic that can function as a grip"
              \_ That shotgun still does not have a pistol grip, even
                 by that definition.
                 \_ According to that bill, this counts as a pistol grip.
                    http://www.gunslocal.com/gunimages/1385.jpg
                    This is the one he was presented with:
                  http://www.berettaweb.com/semi%20auto%20shotgun/A300.htm
                 \_ (a) Yes, it's not 'really' a pistol grip
                    (b) As guy above says, the language of the bill was stupid
                        enough where yes, it was considered a pistol grip.
                    (c) I have yet to hear an effective argument from the
                        gun control crowd about how these regulations involving
                        pistol grips and 'assault-looking' weapons do anything
                        other than piss off gun owners.  It's the stupidest
                        thing I ever heard.  If you want to ban automatics, I
                        could see the argument for that (I don't agree, but I
                        understand it).  If you want to ban scary looking
                        weapons you are an idiot or a fretting soccer mommy.
                          -- ilyas
                        \_ Obviously somebody thought pistol-gripped semi-
                           automatic shotguns were not meant to hunt game,
                           but whose sole purpose was to kill people.
                           Note that the bill is for a renewal of an assault
                           weapons ban on AK-47s, AR-15s, and military sniper
                           rifles, and is not only for aforementioned shotguns,
                           as some might infer.
                           \_ Ok, I don't understand that.  Why are
                              pistol-gripped things bad for hunting game?
                              Is this because Elmer Fudd doesn't use a pistol
                              grip?  Take a handgun.  Very few people hunt with
                              handguns, they are generally for 'killing people'
                              (and going to the range, but no one seems to
                              bring that up).
                              So what?  Why is this bannable?  Hunting rifles
                              kill people just as well.  I guess I don't see the
                              thought process at all.  Also, what's a
                              'military sniper rifle' and how is it different
                              from a hunting rifle with a scope? -- ilyas
                              \_ Let me summarize the "answer" for you.
                                 For many liberals, it's "How many guns
                                 can I outlaw?".  For many conservatives, it's
                                 "How many guns can I leave legal?"
                                 There's your answer.
                                 BTW, a Dragunov is one of the named illegal
                                 sniper rifles, and is obviously military-
                                 grade; a hunting rifle with a scope is a
                                 hunting rifle with a scope (with less
                                 penetrating rounds, less accuracy when you
                                 take your run of the mill hunting rifle, and
                                 not necessarily semi-automatic or automatic).
                                 Pistols are for "killing people", but are
                                 strongly associated with self-defense, unlike
                                 assault rifles.  Semi-auto shotguns with
                                 pistol grip make you think of semi-auto
                                 shotguns used by police, except they use them
                                 to take out bad guys.
                                 \_ I am a liberal, and I am anti-gun control.
                                    I believe that this is more consistent
                                    with the pinciples of liberalism than
                                    being pro-gun control.  Personally,
                                    I find hunting to be excruciatingly dull
                                    and I suck at target shooting and live in
                                    a safe area, so I have no guns, but
                                    I support the rights of others to have
                                    whatever guns they want.
                                 \_ This is where I point out I know more about
                                    guns than you.  A run of the mill remington
                                    700 with a 'decent' scope will have:
                                    (a) more penetration than the dragunov
                                        (308 is a bigger round)
                                    (b) larger effective range (900 yards vs
                                        400 yards)
                                    (c) better accuracy than the dragunov
                                        (dragunov is semiauto, and not that
                                        well made, the remington uses the nice
                                        mauser bolt-action).
                                    By any reasonable standard, a remington 700
                                    is a deadlier rifle than the dragunov, yet
                                    the dragunovs are the ones that are outlawed
                                    because of the 'scary grips.'  That things
                                    are 'associated with' or 'make you think
                                    of something' is a dumb (and scary)
                                    argument for outlawing anything.  I realize
                                    you may not necessarily hold the position
                                    you are presenting -- I am
                                    attacking it, not you.  I was hoping for
                                    a defense of 'how many guns can I outlaw?'
                                      -- ilyas
                                    \_ semi-auto vs. bolt action, clip ammo.
                                       I dunno, I think it's reasonable to
                                       think the Dragunov can be deadlier vs.
                                       multiple targets. I don't know too much
                                       about guns though... are pistol grips
                                       so useless? Why then are they on all the
                                       military rifles? --otherperson
                                       \_ Against multiple people you use a
                                          sprayer, not a frigging sniper rifle.
                                          Sniper rifle = single kills.  Pistol
                                          grips are on military rifles because
                                          they are comfy.  Of course comfy
                                          grips make it easier to 'kill people.'
                                          *sigh* -- ilyas
                                          \_ Well, actually, no.  You don't use
                                             a  sprayer, you practice...you
                                             know...accuracy?  So you hit what
                                             you shoot at when you pull the
                                             trigger?  1-3 seconds of full
                                             auto on most assault rifles is
                                             really only useful for
                                             suppression and making lots of
                                             noise.
                                          \_ I have to admit that when I'm
                                             killing people, I look for as
                                             much comfort as possible.
                                             That's why I use a
                                             Dragunov<tm>. -geordan
                           \_ also maybe it makes it easier to identify the
                              real assault weapons, if you ban lookalikes,
                              that might possibly be modified?
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www.drudgereport.com/dncg.htm
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE SEPT 07, 2004 11:46:05 ET XXXXX KERRY COSPONSORED BILL BANNING GUN HE WAVES Was Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry seen this weekend waving a gun which would have been banned if legislation he co-sponsored became law? Kerry co-sponsored S 1431 last year (The Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2003) which would have banned a "semiautomatic shotgun that has a pistol grip. Opponents of the bill successfully argued how nearly all guns have "pistol grips," inluding millions of Browning Auto-5 shotguns produced since 1903. with the semiautomatic shotgun during a Labor Day stop in Racine, West Virginia. "I thank you for the gift, but I can't take it to the debate with me," Kerry told a cheering crowd as he held up the device. But Kerry's gun bill would have also banned any "gift" transaction! It is not clear if Kerry completed the required paperwork (Form 4473) before he claimed the gun.
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According to interviews of EPA staffers conducted by the Los Angeles Times, political appointees in the EPA bypassed agency professional staff and a federal advisory panel last year to craft a rule on mercury emissions preferred by the industry and the White House. Mercury emissions have been found to cause severe neurological and developmental damage in humans. Vice President Dick Cheney was CEO of Texas-based Halliburton from 1995-2000. In addition to providing a massive salary and bonus for just eight months of work in 2000, Halliburton's board of directors voted to give Cheney a $20 million retirement package when he resigned. In his retirement package from Halliburton, Cheney was granted deferred compensation, which paid out his bonus his salary from 1999 over a five year period and his bonus from that year in 2001. In 2001, while serving as Vice President, Cheney received over $16 million in deferred compensation from Halliburton, which included a bonus worth over $14 million and over $200,000 in deferred salary. In 2002, Cheney received over $160,000 in deferred salary compensation. Cheney received the severance package even though he had only been with the company for five years and his contract stated that he would have to forfeit some of his retirement package if he retired before turning 62 -- retired at age 59. Cheney's compensation for the eight months of 2000 he served as CEO of Halliburton, according to the Associated Press, was "$43 million in deferred compensation and bonuses, and $806,332 in salary." Furthermore, following his departure from Halliburton, Cheney retained possession of 433,333 options of Halliburton stock that were set to expire at three different times. Despite Cheney's insistence that he severed his financial ties to Halliburton, the Congressional Research Service released a report saying that federal ethics laws consider both Cheney's deferred compensation and his unexercised stock options as a lingering financial interest in the company. In March 2003, the Pentagon awarded Halliburton's construction wing, Kellogg Brown and Root, a no-bid contract to help rebuild Iraqi oil fields after a possible war there, including advice on putting out oil well fires. The Army Corps of Engineers said that Halliburton's compensation for rejuvenating Iraq's oil industry could be up to $7 billion. In postwar Iraq, Halliburton is the largest private contractor, with potential deals totaling over $11 billion. AP, 11/5/03 Halliburton Involved in Several Scandals in Iraq. The military investigated Halliburton and found that it overcharged for gas it imported into Iraq from Kuwait by as much as $61 million. In March 2003, the Pentagon announced it would withhold nearly $300 million in payments to Halliburton due to the company's overcharging on food contracts. In the main Baghdad dining facility where President Bush surprised the troops on Thanksgiving, inspectors found filthy kitchen conditions in each of the three previous months." At least a dozen industry officials were named to the transition teams at the Energy and Interior departments as well as the Environmental Protection Agency. Brought To You By Special Interests, Public Citizen, 3/04 What They Got: Bush Proposed Opening the Arctic Refuge and National Parks to Oil Companies. Bush said he advocated drilling in the environmentally sensitive Alaskan National Wildlife Reserve (ANWR). Bush also supports oil and gas drilling in protected national parks monuments and public lands in the Rocky Mountains. AP, 3/29/01 American Petroleum Institute Gave "Wish List" To Energy Task Force. Nine days before Bush's inauguration, energy industry lobbyists gathered in the American Petroleum Institute's offices to make a "wish list" for the Bush energy plan. The list was forwarded to the Bush energy transition team, and eventually to the energy task force. According to the Washington Post, "A first review of the 11,000 pages of documents bolsters the contention of Democratic lawmakers and environmental groups that the Bush administration relied almost exclusively on the advice of executives from utilities and producers of oil, gas, coal and nuclear energy while a White House task force drafted recommendations that would vastly increase energy production." Bush alone received at least $300,000 from the mining industry. James H "Buck" Harless, the 83-year-old West Virginia coal baron, described the Bush administration as "the most coal-friendly administration ever." Harless, a Pioneer in 2004 and 2000, is chairman of International Industries, a holding company with mining, timber, and other interests. He is also on the board of Massey Energy, a major Appalachian coal company that specializes in "mountaintop removal" mining and that has been targeted for protests by the United Mine Workers for its "disregard toward the environment, worker safety and the well-being of Appalachian coalfield communities." Brought To You By Special Interests, Public Citizen, 3/04 What They Got: Bush Eased Mountaintop Mining Regulations; Bush's EPA instituted regulations that would allow coal companies to pollute local streams and waterways with tons of dirt, rock and debris from mountaintop mining. "These are the changes that the mining industry wanted... They'll be allowed to dump more waste and more types of waste," said Daniel Rosenberg, a lawyer with the Natural Resources Defense Council. Carol Raulston, a spokeswoman for the National Mining Association, called the EPA's action "very helpful." White House Energy Task Force Relied "Almost Exclusively" on Advice From Coal Utilities and Producers. According to the Washington Post, "A first review of the 11,000 pages of documents bolsters the contention of Democratic lawmakers and environmental groups that the Bush administration relied almost exclusively on the advice of executives from utilities and producers of oil, gas, coal and nuclear energy while a White House task force drafted recommendations that would vastly increase energy production." Updated Nuclear Energy Institute of Nuclear Power Plant Operators and Owners, 4/5/01; com What They Got: Bush Signed Bill to Store Nuclear Waste in Nevada's Yucca Mountain. On July 23, 2002, Bush signed a bill which formally adopted storing nuclear waste in Nevada's Yucca Mountain, a plan that was also adopted by both the House and Senate. Fi...
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www.berettaweb.com/semi%20auto%20shotgun/A300.htm
BERETTA Model A 300 Semiautomatic Shotgun The automatics, or self loading shotguns, according to their principle of operation fall into two main groups, namely: - recoil operated and, - gas operated arms. When a recoil operated gun is discharged both the bolt and the barrel, locked together, recoil back for approximately three inches. At the rearmost position, the bolt is caught and held back while the barrel returns to its original position. one to return the barrel to its forward position, and one to return the bolt, since both are separate operations. When the barrel and bolt are moved to the rear at the time of discharge, two springs are compressed: then, white the bolt is held in the open (rearward) position, the barrel return spring pushes the barrel forward until it releases the bolt locking latch, allowing the bolt to come forward, feeding a new shot shell. The design of such a system is necessarily a rather complicated one, and in most recoil operated shotguns the gun must be adjusted to handle the particular load being used. In addition, the large weight and mass of the barrel and bolt moving under recoil results in the so called double shuffle effect, a combination of the clatter and noise of these parts, and the separate inertia of their movements. The basic principle of the gas operated mechanism, on the other hand, is the utilization of part of the gas pressure in the barrel to move a piston which in turn operates the action bar and the bolt. When the gun is fired, the shot charge propelled by the expanding gases, travels up the barrel, which is stationary. As the shot charge passes the gas port in the barrel, a small, scientifically measured portion of the gas (corresponding to less than of 1% of its total volume) goes through the gas port into the expansion chamber. The pressure of this gas against the piston which is in turn attached to the action bar drives both the piston and the action bar back to unlock the bolt. The Beretta Model A 300 features a built in load adjuster, making ft possible to shoot interchangeably all 2 " shotshells, from the lightest target loads to the heaviest magnums, without adjustment. The front of the piston is built in such a way as to be able to expand against the walls of the expansion chamber in direct relationship to the pressure of the gas on it. The heavier the load, the more the Lips of the piston, press outward to apply extra braking power to retard the piston's rearward motion; the less pressure, the less braking action, so that the rearward movement is accomplished at the same rate of speed regardless of the power of the shotshell used. Thus, before the bolt is unlocked and carried to the rear, the shot charge is well clear of the muzzle, and pressures, within the barrel have dropped to a safe level. As the bolt travels back, it extracts and ejects the fired case, and a fresh round is released from the magazine. As the bolt and action bar travel forward, the bolt brings forward the new shell, chambers it, and locks itself closed, ready for firing. After the last round has been fired, the bolt remains open. Because of the ring shaped grooves milled into the outer contour of the piston, the piston actually scrubs the walls of the expansion chamber, resulting in a self cleaning action that eliminates the need for frequent cleaning. A301 The advantages of the Beretta A 300 are manifold: - clean lines, exceptional natural pointing qualities, - high muzzle velocity resulting in quicker and more accurate shooting, - greatly reduced recoil, - minimal wear on the moving parts due to the smooth operation of the mechanism, - reduced number of components, - simple takedown, - trouble free performance. The A 300 automatic is typical of Beretta's care and quality. Utilizing the latest equipment, Beretta has achieved the ultimate in automatic shotguns. The reliability of the Mode A 300 automatic under every known condition is also due in large measure to the use of the finest materials, machined and heat treated to rigid standards. The barrel is machined of the finest Chrome Moly steel, while the receiver is made of special ERGAL light alloy. The model A 300 is a handsomely styled automatic designed for all round shooting enjoyment. Roger D & A390 in Action SPECIFICATIONS: barrel Lengths: 670 mm 26 710 mm 28" 760 mm 30" chokes: from improved cylinder to full chamber length: 70 mm 2 3/4" stock Length: 360 mm 14 11/64" (with full pistol grip) drop at heel: from 55 to 62 mm from 2 11/64" to 2 7/16" approximate weight 3,150 gr 7 Ib 15 oz approx. Luminous front sight to improve shooting accuracy and speed. Gas operated - blued light alloy receiver - barrels bored from special alloy Chromium Molybdenum Steel. Ventilated rib with traditional front sight is optional.