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2017/10/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/19   

2013/4/30-5/10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:54668 Activity:nil
4/30    NO "jot" ?!?!?!  Where is my BSD !!!!!?!!!?! -oldman
        \_ What is BSD? -youngman
           \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Software_Distribution
              \_ Now I feel bad for trolling. I did go to this school. -youngman
2010/7/22-8/9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:53893 Activity:nil
7/22    Playing with dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/<disk> on linux and bsd:
        2 questions, on linux when <disk>==hda it always gives me this off
        by one report i.e. Records out == records in-1 and says there is an
        error. Has anyone else seen this?  Second, when trying to repeat this
        on bsd, <disk>==rwd0 now, to my surprise, using the install disk and
        selecting (S)hell, when I try to dd a 40 gig disk it says "409 records
        in, 409 records out, / full".  Which is far well below what I'd expect
        on a 40 gig.  If i actually fdisk the drive, and put a partition  I can
        dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/[rwd0a],[wd0a] but still get the off by one.
        Has anyone else seen this weird behaviour?  I'm pretty sure that I
        should be able to dd to rwd0 in bsd just as I can dd to hda in linux.
        This is an IDE drive btw.   Also I set bs=512 and bs=8b to try it out
        multiple ways.
2010/7/21-8/9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:53890 Activity:nil
7/21    Can I just use ifconfig to expand my netmask on a FreeBSD box?
        Are there any gotchas here? Linux forces me to restart my network
        to expand my netmask.
        \_ yes... and no, you don't have to restart your network on linux either
           \_ Rebooting is the Ubootntoo way!
              \_ Oooboot'n'tootin!
                 \_ Before  I start any ubuntu installation, I eat alot of
                    beans.  And super hot salsa.
           \_ Well, maybe not technically, but on linux, using ifconfig wiped
              out my route table, including default route. It did not on
              FreeBSD, so I could just change the netmask on the fly.
              \_ On linux, you have to think in russian.
2009/9/4-12 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:53331 Activity:kinda low
9/4     I'm seriously very happy Soda no longer runs FreeBSD.
        FreeBSD is really going down the tubes
        http://freebsdgirl.com/2009/08/its-a-dirty-job-but-someone-ha.html
        \_ funny, I dont remember it geting pwned anywhere near as many tmies
           as it has since the switch to Linux.  And that blog post is
           only abou the installer, not the running OS
           \_ Aren't you amused that a total dipshit is about to maintain
              sysinstall ?
              \_ wouldn't know.  Hard to say that there aren't dipshits
                 "maintaining" any other ones.
        \_ you dunno how close you came to being on plan 9.
        \_ I'm pretty sure Soda will be running Windows 7 in
           no time, given the lack of UNIX interests these days.
           Kids today don't even know who Reagan is let alone
           the Star Wars project.
           VMS:people in the 70s :: UNIX:kids today
2009/5/4-6 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:52939 Activity:moderate
5/4     I would appreciate a reliability ranking between:
        1) OpenBSD
        2) OpenSolaris
        3) FreeBSD
        4) Debian-Stable
        5) Suse Linux Enterprise Server
        \_ No RedHat?
        \_ This is going to depends greatly on the applications you are
        \_ This is going to depend greatly on the applications you are
           running. All of these operating systems are going to be reliable
           out of the box, at least as compared to MacOS or Windows.
           Relative to each other I'm not sure there's much difference. I
           think you are asking the wrong question to make your decision.
           Other factors are going to be far more important.
        \_ Think you'll also get a lot easier support if you use RedHat or
           one of its many incarnations like CentOS since it seems to be the
           most common enterprise Linux out there.
        \_ it no longer matters for most of applications.  I would urge you
           look at other factors, such as software avaliability, etc.
        \_ Reliability has a lot more to do with the quality of your process
           than the OS you run on, at least if you run on a reasonable
           non-M$ OS like any of the above.
2009/4/17-23 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:52867 Activity:low
4/17    If you have a general access AssOS machines, this is worth
        taking this seriously. --psb
  http://c-skills.blogspot.com/2009/04/udev-trickery-cve-2009-1185-and-cve.html
        <DEAD>admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/udev-127-5.fc10<DEAD>
        \_ What does this have to do with MS Windows?
           \_ psb is a bsd lover.
              \_ BSD never had any security flaws, nosiree.
                 \_ I'm just explaining what AssOS is actually referring to.
                 \_ OpenBSD - "Only two remote holes in the default install,
                               in more than 10 years!"
                    \_ More like "Only two installs in more than 10 years!"
                       \_ http://openbsd.org/users.html
2009/3/27-4/2 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:52764 Activity:nil
3/27    i just want to set up a proxy.  squid is too annoying.  privoxy
        locks too much content down.  any tips ?
        \_ Use ssh's built-in SOCKS server.  On the client, run "ssh -D1080
           proxyhost", and then set your browser to use localhost:1080 as a
           SOCKS proxy.
           \_ best advice. Fuck squid. SSH has everything.
                http://osdir.com/ml/user-groups.ale/2003-03/msg01182.html
        \_ http://seankelly.tv/blog/blogentry.2007-03-02.4768602564
        \_ http://calomel.org/firefox_ssh_proxy.html <--- pretty helpful
2009/1/12-15 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:52366 Activity:nil
1/12    new soda to run FreeBSD, we have taken it back!
        \_ Daemon worshippers.
        \_ there goes the linux holy land
           \_ "But Stallman and Linus between them would make a better world."
              \_ "If it lives only for a while, Tiberias, it still has lived."
        \_ well at least the new logo is cooler
        \_ I hope they start a traition of training sysamins to run freebs
           on future politburos.
2008/11/29-12/6 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/VM] UID:52129 Activity:moderate
11/29   I'm experimenting with virtualization, and as a poor college student
        I'm wondering what the best alternatives for virtualization are, and
        how best to cut my teeth on messing with non-linux platforms (or I
        guess interesting stuff on Linux would work too). Right now I've got
        FreeBSD7 running on KVM on my home computer (on a Core 2 Quad), and am
        somewhat at a loss as to how to use it. (More details: bridged
        networking, disk is a 8GB partition software raid1'ed over 3 disks).
        In any case, KVM seems to just 'work', but as the CSUA is planning to
        offer VMs soon, I'd like to know if there are better alternatives,
        particularly considering that when I put my computer to sleep without
        shutting down the guest OS, the computer wouldn't start back up, I had
        to cold-boot, and the disk image got corrupted. From what I hear,
        VMWare's offering is solid, but the useful administration software is
        thousands of dollars. Ideally, free software or something sustainable
        without repeated donations of software, and easy to administrate would
        be best. Does anyone have suggestions? --toulouse
        \_ At my job, we use Vmware 2.0.  it is free.  i run vms.  there
           are graphical admin tools.  I could buy Vmware ESX, which gets
           me I guess better admin tools, better performance vmotion and fail
           over.
        \_ Someone here works at VMWare and was recruiting 2 years ago.
           Calling the VMWare guy! We need a free educational license!
           Oh well, he's probably not going to respond until Monday.
           Us old farts have kids and family things to go on weekends.
           Oh, try this. And yes we use VMWare in our company and it
           is really great. You can get snapshots of the machine, run
           multiple instances on a single machine (since most machines
           are underutilized). Our production servers are also in
           VMWare for superior bug isolation and debuggability:
           http://www.vmware.com/partners/academic
           \_ What, you mean CSUA alums have lives? Unthinkable! --toulouse
           \_ Isn't VMWare Server free?  That's what we use in our company.
              --- !OP
              \_ I don't recall the details, but while the server itself is
                 free, I think the administration interface is expensive.
                 Feel free to correct me on this. --toulouse
        \_ Here's the deal.  Vmware has two products.  The Free Version
           (Vmware 2.0) , and Vmware Server ESX ( not free. lots of $$$$ ).
           ESX is a different codebase than Vmware 2.0 free.  With ESX,
           you get better performance, better GUI tools, failover capability,
           and the ability to magically move your VMs from machine to machine.\
           freely available Vmware 2.0 has a gui too.
           and the ability to magically move your VMs from machine to machine.
           freely available Vmware 2.0 has a gui too.
                 \_ VirtualBox?
                    \_ virtualbox is a sun thing.  its not vmware.  it
                       has its strengths and weaknesses
           \_ ESXi, the hypervisor, is actually free, it seems, but the magical
              admin tools are a part of ESX and not ESXi:
              http://www.vmware.com/products/esxi
              Anyways. Paging VMWare employees...anyone here?
              --Andy
              Anyways. Paging VMWare employees...anyone here? --toulouse
              \_ dude are you running a root name server?  Vmware 2.0 is
                 just fine.
                 \_ doesn't mean ESX wouldn't be better ;). Ease of admin is a
                    real concern for us, and besides, if the software is
                    satisfactory, we might even virtualize soda itself. Given
                    time, if we got another server with virtualization
                    extensions, failover would be a large win. As you may have
                    noticed from recent downtime, Keg's been on the fritz
                    lately, so uptime's been on our minds. Without failover,
                    we're back to square one re: evaluating KVM vs VMWare vs
                    others, hence this thread. Besides, there's an argument to
                    be made that if we have experience managing the good stuff
                    here in college it'll be what we're qualified to manage once
                    we strike out in the real world, and/or the software that we
                    recommend to our superiors should we get relevant jobs
                    (which, arguably, a few of us will). --toulouse
                    here in college it'll be what we're qualified to manage
                    once we strike out in the real world, and/or the software
                    that we recommend to our superiors should we get relevant
                    jobs (which, arguably, a few of us will). --toulouse
                    \_ I guess.  Really, I think Vmware 2.0 is adequate.
                       There are plenty of cheapass companies out there running
                       it.
                    \_ You know, when I was a poor college student, I
                       wasn't very picky. Seriously, the two may have
                       different features that you'd need in the enterprise
                       environment, but are you running an enterprise?
                       \_ Well, I'm not picky wrt/ using what works for me
                          (which, as I mentioned before, is KVM), but I
                          want the CSUA to be a bit more ambitious in its
                          endeavors, and as they say, shoot high, aim low
                          (is that the right saying?). Plus, there's the
                          fact that our vp is not paid, so minimizing the
                          addition to his workload while offering more
                          students to members is also a factor. In any
                          case, I think it'd be prudent for us to see if a
                          software donation is feasible, and if not, what
                          our other options are then. This is something
                          that can wait a bit, as we're waiting on those
                          core i7's. --toulouse
                               \- (80cols ... reformatted)
                          \_ well if this is about the CSUA rather than
                             personal edification, how about first dealing
                             with the frequent crashes/outages of soda ...
                             or is this an attempt to do so? [this seems
                             odd to me, but whatever]. second, to abuse
                             a quote a bit, "software is the continuation of
                             policy by other means" ... "what [csua] problem
                             are you trying to solve" [via this software, via
                             donation campaign/new hardware etc]. BTW, with
                             regard to giving csua people experience with
                             expensive tools, i actually think part of the
                             reason a lot of ex-csua people have been
                             successful systems people is they resorted
                             to hacking togethe things and thus understanding
                             how they work under the hood, rather than
                             throwing money at the problem [hardware and
                             softwarewise] ... i'm not saying you should say
                             solve all problems that way ... like if you need
                             disk space today, just go buy a cheap disk
                             rather than scrounging, but just the observation
                             in the past, some of this hacking to debug
                             something or getting it to work (and much of
                             this was pre-google) served people well.
                             \_ Yep, real learning comes as part of the
                                struggle. In some sense, it would be better
                                for students not to primarily have experience
                                with enterprise software packages since
                                these are made "easy to use" for the corporate
                                drones who wouldn't survive if they had to
                                have any real degree of understanding of how
                                the system actually works.
                             \_ Well, the learning I was looking for when
                                putting the idea forward (since I suggested
                                it) was geared towards people exposing
                                themselves to different OS'es and playing with
                                root in a sandbox. This is the problem I want
                                to solve, not training people in enterprise
                                applications. Also, soda hasn't been crashing
                                -- it's been keg, which serves our LDAP, that
                                (as I said before) has been on the fritz. If
                                keg goes down, then logging in does not work.
                                Politburo intends to buy a new server for
                                this; however since the Core i7 is coming out
                                we don't want a purchase now to be obsolete
                                upon arrival. We have the opportunity now to
                                solve two problems at once: allow interested
                                members access to their own personal VMs, and
                                increase stability of our servers. We can most
                                definitely do without failover, but then the
                                uptime problem isn't as completely solved.
                                The idea of getting students experienced in
                                adminning VMWare may be of low priority for
                                the CSUA as a whole; on the other hand, it is
                                (IMO) the strongest argument to be made to
                                VMWare.
                                In summary (and in my opinion) -- high
                                priorities are increasing uptime and developing
                                skills with adminning systems.
                                low priorities are developing VMWare admin
                                skills and...well, steven should be coming on
                                soon to offer his opinion. --toulouse
        \_ Can't you request a free license for VI3 from VMware at
           http://www.vmware.com/partners/academic
        \_ You could try virtual box from Sun, it is free and runs many x86
           OSes:
           http://www.virtualbox.org
           http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Guest_OSes
           Re VMWare - Fusion for OSX is very nice and quite affordable (I've
           seen it on sale recently for as little as $30). It has GUI admin
           tools and the unified mode makes using windows apps almost like
           using native OSX apps.
           I'm currently using Fusion to run WinXP and Ubuntu and have used
           it in the past to run Solaris x86 and FreeBSD as well. I usually
           run XP and OSX concurrently and haven't ever had any problems with
           the XP VM getting corrupted when I sleep my iMac. If you have a Mac
           I'd recommend getting it.
           \_ I don't think you understand what he's trying to do.
              \_ Maybe I misunderstood, but isn't part of what he is trying to
                 do is becoming more familiar with non-linux systems ("I'm
                 wondering ... how best to cut my teeth on messing with non-
                 linux platforms"). If he has a mac, Fusion is a good way to
                 accomplish this - it can run Solaris, Linux, *BSD, Windows,
                 &c. and will help him get a feel for those systems. Virtual
                 Box, while not as nice as Fusion (at least on Mac), is a
                 free way to accomplish the same.
              \_ These are two different objectives.  I'm talking about setting
                 up VMs as a service for CSUA so we can consolidate our machines
                 while maintaining some sort of security and OS diversity (linux
                 + BSD at least)  If toulouse wants to learn about
                 virtualization
                 of course Fusion is a good option (he does have a mac), but
                 that's a different aim.  --Steven
                 up VMs as a service for CSUA so we can consolidate our
                 machines while maintaining some sort of security and OS
                 diversity (linux + BSD at least)  If toulouse wants to learn
                 about virtualization of course Fusion is a good option (he
                 does have a mac), but that's a different aim.  --Steven
        \_ Hey guys - Steven here
           Thought I'd weigh in on the situation.  The recent outages have
           indeed been because Keg has been crashing (as presumably toulosue
           pointed out) and I'm fairly sure it's a hardware issue.  We're
           simply running too much IO through the (decently old) system
           and parts of it have already failed (we've lost one of the
           ethernet controllers already) so I'm willing to blame the system
           instead of the software.  That said, we're hoping to buy a massively
           cool system when Core i7 Xeons come out (thinking 16+ cores).  At
           that point it seems reasonable to look at virtualization.  I've
           used Fusion and Virtualbox in the past, so I'm not new to it
           by any means - but one of the requirements is that it's easy to
           admin/use.  The issue here is the host OS - I'd like to use ZFS for
           the disk array we'd need to have to back all this.  Linux doesn't
           seem to have a very good filesystem for this sort of thing - ext4
           isn't stable, btrfs is still even further off, ext3/LVM is pretty
           hacky, JFS/XFS really really need battery backups to not lose data,
           and reiserfs's future is very unstable.
           ZFS offers ZVOLs which seem to be perfect for giving out virtual
           partitions.  Right now we have Soda mounting off of Keg via NFS
           which as you may have noticed is a serious performance and stability
           problem, so I'd prefer not to go with NFS again.  The network FSes
           out there all seem to suck in one way or another, so local storage
           (especially for something like this) seems to be a must.
           Since that limits us to using FreeBSD or OpenSolaris as a host OS
                                         \_ or OSX, see:
                                         http://preview.tinyurl.com/5zo987
                                         [developer.apple.com - zfs(8)]
                                         \_ We're not rich enough to buy a
                                         Mac Pro/XServe :(
           (unless Linux ends up having a decent fs by the time we actually
           get this running).  Virtualbox doesn't seem to work well on FreeBSD
           (as in not at all) and Xen seems to not play nicely with either
           BSD or Solaris as a dom0.  VMWare won't run on BSD either - not
           sure about Solaris, which is why I was looking at ESX.  The problem
           with ESX is that it runs on only about 3 supported hardware
           configurations which are pretty hard to build on our budget.
           Discuss?
           I'll hang around and maybe get into this whole motd thing ;)
           \_ Virtual Box on OpenSolaris w/ ZFS sounds like it would probably
              work.  I used to know some OpenSolaris people when I was at sun,
              and could probably put you in touch with them if you run into
              problems. -ex-Sun
              \_ That'd be neat, I'll do so if we go that route and have
              troubles
2008/6/13-20 [Computer/SW/Compilers, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:50257 Activity:nil
6/13    Anybody know of a library that can do the following in *BSD systems?
        Add a function call like "if (debug) print_backtrace()" and it
        would print out the stack trace.  Similar to setting a breakpoint
        in GDB and then doing "bt".  Running GDB is not an option sometimes.
2008/3/18-21 [Science/Electric, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/Theory] UID:49488 Activity:low
3/18    Walking robot video, really cool!
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww
        \_ From MIT. All the good stuff's from MIT & Furd. Where's
           cool stuff from Cal?
           \_ BSD?  Atomic Bomb?
           \_ Actually RHex, which was a philosophical precursor to BigDog,
              came out of motion work done by Bob Full at Cal.  -tom
        \_ Wow, that *is* impressive, especially the recovery after getting
           kicked.  And recovering on ice!  Walking across loose stones!
           Jumping!
        \_ That is utterly cool! Thank you for posting that!
        \_ Mount a machine gun on top... John Conner would be proud!
        \_ They showed that on discovery channel or something months ago.
           Where are the sexless tv watchers when you need them?
        \_ obIWelcomeOurNewRobotOverlords
2007/11/14-21 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Linux] UID:48636 Activity:moderate
11/14   Any reason I should format my disk in JFS or XFS or REISERFS
        instead of good old EXT3 (this is Linux, obviously) ?
        \_ XFS supports larger filesystems than ext3, which may or may not
           matter to you.
           \_ The "larger" filesystem quantifier is no longer big of an
               \_ What if I really do want to get rid of her?

              issue, especially if you're using 64-bit OS. But if you're
              working with large files, this is where xfs shines. ReiserFS
              is still better at handling many small files. I have no
              experience with JFS. Last I used ReiserFS, it had no
              dump/restore tools, which may or may not matter to you.
        \_ if you go with resierfs, your wife might go missing and you get
           the blame for her disappearance!
           \_ Don't kill your wife and it won't be a problem.
               \_ What if I really do want to get rid of her?
                  \_ Divorce is less risky than murder.
        \_ I still haven't found a fs format that plays well with mac / windows
           and unix all at the same time.  Fat32 is a weak kludge ,
           and it won't handle files larger than 1 gig i believe.
           \_ There's now an ext2/ext3 driver availiable for Windows.  I use
           \_ There's now an ext2/ext3 driver available for Windows.  I use
              that for my shared drive now rather than Fat32. I don't know
              about Mac.
              \_ is it reliable?  do you trust it?
                 \_ Well, I haven't had any trouble with it.  Of course, I'm
                    not doing anything all that important either, and it's all
                    backed up.  It's not the most user friendly thing in the
                    world.  It doesn't automount the ext2 drives, for example.
                    Here's the link. http://www.fs-driver.org
              \_ Did zfs end up in Leopard, or was it pulled before release?
                 There are slow-but-working zfs support for linux and windows,
                 as well as ports to freebsd and of course, opensolaris.
        \_ ext3 does not support online defragmentation.
        \_ We looked at all four file systems a few years back and ext3 was
           the most reliable by far. JFS is a distant second, but there are
           still cases in the code where a power outage at the wrong time will
           lead to massive data loss. XFS does not support errors during
           journal replay (by design) and thus is TOTALLY UNSUITABLE for any
           data you really care about (again, by design). The last I looked,
           ReiserFS had some fundamental errors / race conditions in journal
           replay. When it is my data, I use ext3. --twohey
           \- i'm curious how much of your finding were things flawed-by-
              design vs. implementations bugs [which could have been fixed
              since], as well as if you were just looking at the potential for
              irrecoverable data loss, or worst case performance issues
              [like some fs+hardware combos seem to have problems with
              high metarate operation rates, or concurrency etc]. anyway,
              if you have some ptrs to papers you think have still relevant
              results, i'd be interested. [btw, have you seen ibm gpfs?
              that fs blew me away from day 1]. --psb
              \_ How much is gpfs?
                 \- One Million Dollars, Mr. Bond.
              \_ It has been about 5 years but XFS+Linux was horrible at that
                 time.  We lost a lot of data on Linux XFS.  SGI XFS was like
                 magic, though.  We brutally punished an SGI box and it kept
                 on ticking.
           \_ You might want to try Veritas' VxFS.  They give it away with
              VxVM in a combination called "Storage Foundation Basic".  I think
              they limit the number of file systems you can use in the free
              version.
              \_ Thanks for pointing out the freebie version.
              \_ I've always wondered about VxFS, but never had a chance to
                 get my hands on it. What are some of the advanced features
                 it provides over usual list of linux/bsd file systems?
2007/9/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:48044 Activity:nil
9/12    This guy seems to have a good gig going. Hack on some BSD stuff
        with no deadlines, and use project donations money to travel the world.
        http://zeus.theos.com/deraadt
        I guess he's kinda like that guy with the dancing videos. But Theo
        doesn't dance. Or take videos.
        \_ Start your own niche OS project that businesses want.
2017/10/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/19   

2007/9/11-13 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:48016 Activity:nil
9/11    Hi does anyone else run linux/freebsd on their Desktop?
        Do you encrypt your home directory?  How does that play nice
        with hibernation/suspend?  Do you have to enter in a secret
        key when you log in?  Could you give a short summary of how
        this all works?  thank you!
        \_ I'm a FreeBSD user.  I do not encrypt my home directory
           as I don't keep anything important there.  I do have GBDE
           partitions, and occasionally have soft links to files there
           from my home directory.  Once attached, GBDE partition is
           "just there."  Hibernation/suspend should not affect it.
           I don't hibernate/suspend anyway.  I'd think that if you
           have a good password, and lock your X session (or just log
           out), you'd be safe.  If the machine is rebooted, GBDE
           partition is gone.  You need to re-attach with the
           password.
2007/5/23-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:46736 Activity:nil
5/23    Anyone know anything about prelinking/prebinding on freebsd? I have
        few binaries that change its checksum every now and then and am
        trying to figure out if it's hacked, bad disk, or prelinking. How do
        I find out if it's due to prelinking? Thanks!
2007/3/15-17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:45977 Activity:nil
3/14    http://www.csua.org/u/i8o
        Remote exploit in OpenBSD kernel.  Security is hard.  And yes, it
        would be really difficult to exploit this in practice. -dans
2007/3/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:45949 Activity:nil
3/13    OpenBSD 4.1 preorder is up:
        http://www.openbsd.org/items.html#41
2006/10/30-11/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:45042 Activity:low
10/30   Anyone have recommendations for a reasonably stable filesystem that
        I can use on large (~150GB) external USB drives, that's read/
        writeable by XP, MacOS and possibly FreeBSD/Linux?  -John
        \_ If you want write access from all three, I think you're stuck with
           fat32.
           \_ Which BTW limits you to files of 4GB or less, so don't think you
              can make DVD images.
              \_ And I think 130GB partitions, that's my problem.  -John
                 \_ That limit is supposedly only for creating/checking from
                    a Windows system.  Unix tools will let you format larger
                    partitions, after which newer Windows can mount rw.
                    \_ That's what I thought, but I just tested it on a W2K
                       box and no dice.  For some reason it pukes on large
                       file copies, and when the data mount exceeds ~half the
                       drive size.  Funny enough MacOS also crapped out on
                       a FAT32 drive formatted...on my Mac.  -John
                       \_ Just curious, why isn't 130GB large enough and why
                          does it have to be r/w across multiple unrelated OS?
                          \_ 130 would be plenty except I haven't gotten it
                             to work.  It's the drive I ended up putting all
                             my backup game ISOs, ripped music and DVD rips
                             on while in S. America (they're on a raid5
                             array on a FreeBSD box serving samba at home) and
                             I'd like to be able to read/write from both my
                             Mac and my PC while abroad.  -John
        \_ vxfs
           \_ vxfs does not support windows xp, mac osx, or freebsd
              \_ interesting.  there is a veritas foundation for windows
                 product but it only supports the windows file systems but
                 otherwise looks very much like their vxfs based unix product.
                 \_ The project to port VxFS to Windows got canned because
                    Microsoft opposed it, so Storage Foundation on Windows
                    is just Volume Manager.
2006/10/15-16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:44824 Activity:nil
10/15   Stupid photo format question:  anyone have a clue whether it's
        possible to play with EXIF data in Canon Raw (CR2) format with a
        tool like jhead (does CR2 even use EXIF?)  -John
        \_ exiftool (p5-Image-ExifTool port in FreeBSD) supports CR2
           files and much more.
           \_ You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman.  Thank you.  -John
2006/10/1-2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:44614 Activity:nil
9/30    For YEARS I have messed around with X and sound and video
        and your mom on FreeBSD 3 4 5 6 7, but last week I installed
        UBUNTU and everything just fucking works.  Die FreeBSD Die!
        \_ but Linux is not a real OS...
        \_ it's good enough for your Desktop or laptop
2006/9/27-28 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:44580 Activity:nil
9/27    OpenSSH 4.4 is leftist
        http://www.openssh.org/txt/release-4.4
        OpenBSD src:
        http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/OpenSSH/openssh-4.4.tar.gz
        OpenBSD src signature:
        http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/OpenSSH/openssh-4.4.tar.gz.asc
        Portable src:
        http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/OpenSSH/portable/openssh-4.4p1.tar.gz
        Portable src signature:
        http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/OpenSSH/portable/openssh-4.4p1.tar.gz.asc
2006/9/22-25 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:44496 Activity:nil
9/22    OpenBSD 4.0 available for pre-order:
        http://www.openbsd.org/40.html
2006/8/16-18 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:44024 Activity:nil
8/16    Greatest piece of software ever written is 4.3 BSD:
        http://tinyurl.com/go7lv (informationweek.com)
        \_ Windows is run by more computers than all other OS combined.
           \_ that only makes it common, not great.
              \_ If it wasn't great people wouldn't use it.  They'd use 4.3
                 BSD.
           \_ And DaVinci Code was a bestseller...
              \_ And a fine film!
           \_ And DaVinci Code was a bestseller...
           \_ Last I heard, DOS is run by more computers than all Windows
              combined.
              \_ Was that 1997?
           \_ I have never used any other operating system other than
              Windows.  -average American male
              \_ Aha, you just contradicted yourself!  An average
                 American male wouldn't even know what an operating
                 system is.
        \_ I disagree with the placements but I couldn't have written a
           better article myself. It is somewhat educational but more
           importantly it is somewhat entertaining. Thanks for posting the
           article. Go BSD we'll miss you!!!
           \_ BSD, A Real Operating System for Real Users:
              http://www.openbsd.org/art/44bsd.gif
              At least we still have OS X. :-)
        \_ Whatever happened to spam softwares, X10 pop-ups, and my favorite
           pushy push PointCast screensavers back in the mid 90s? None of them
           made it to the list?
2006/8/14-16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:43990 Activity:nil
8/14    Anyone know if there's a FreeBSD equivalent to Linux binfmt-misc?
        \_ Pretty sure not.  OOC, why do you want it?
           \_ Just setup apache with suexec and fcgid.  wanted userdir
              php modules to start in suexec w/o having to copy php binary
              to each user's public_html.  For now, will just create an
              entry in httpd.conf for each user and have a wrapper script
              copied to the public_html.  -op
2006/7/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:43614 Activity:kinda low
7/10    How do I put 2 addresses on google map? I want to see 2 flags and
        their relative positions on the satellite page when detailed
        maps are not available. I am entering them as
        longitude/latitude coordinates and one address works
        beautifully... Thanks.
        \_ Try http://maps.ask.com, it'll probably let you do this.  --dbushong
        \_ Or Yahoo Maps Beta. I find it easier to use than http://maps.ask.com.
           \_ Ah yes, the flash-only application that FreeBSD users can't use
              (natively).  Yahoo!, you've forgotten your roots!
              \_ why cant you run flash on freebsd?
                 \_ Macromedia doesn't make a plugin for FreeBSD (and apparently
                 \_ Adobe doesn't make a plugin for FreeBSD (and apparently
                    their Linux plugin's getting long in the tooth, too)
              \_ internally Yahoo is windows and linux desktops and the servers
                 are going linux.  "thanks for the free beer."
        \_ Damn, Yahoo's satellite coverage of other countries are
           sadly lacking, for example. Shanghai, Beijing. So is there
           a way to put 2 flags up on google? How does the
           craiglist/map site http://www.housingmaps.com work?
           \_ You have to sign up (it's free) to use the Google maps API.
              Google gives you an access key to embed in your web page
              and has pretty useful documentation on figuring out how
              to do what you want.  It's pretty cool, check it out. --peterl
2006/6/15-19 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:43412 Activity:nil
6/15    Alright, wall.log rotations *should* be back and working right
        We'll find out at 4AM, when it rotates.
        Also, find a number of old wall tools reinstated in /csua/bin
        --michener
        \_ Okay, so date(1) on BSD is different than Linux. And my perms
           are better now. So hopefully this evening instead.
2006/5/2-3 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42887 Activity:nil
5/1     What causes lockd to get stuck?
        \_ Bugs in the Linux kernel, or maybe incompatibilies with the
           FreeBSD NFS server on keg.  This was not the same problem we
           were having before, which was a bug in Linux 2.6.16; that one
           hasn't come back since we downgraded to 2.6.15.  --mconst
           \_ Wouldn't a 2.4 series kernel like the one in RHEL3 be
              more stable?
2006/4/30-5/4 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42866 Activity:nil
4/30    Whipped up a quick python script to bring wallall into the world of
        RSS! Point your readers (including Safari!) at
        http://csua.berkeley.edu/wallrss.cgi
        and enjoy some inane fun...
        --michener
        \_ The undergrads rock!  Moving soda off of FreeBSD was the best thing
           to happen to the CSUA in years!
           \_ that is the OS of sysadmins, and people who run ISPS.  Not
              exactly the sort that encourage new thinking/memes.  how long
              did it take for cardbus to be put into freebsd... anyway glad
              to see ppl are doing neat things.
        \_ This (and thus wall logs)may be accessible by google now.
                 \- pp inquiry: if freebsd is the "sysadmin/isp os" how
                    would you characterize linux?
              \_ This is silly.  All of the data on soda being deleted and
                 starting from scratch w/ a fresh FreeBSD install would have
                 had the same effect.  Linux doesn't "encourage new thinking"
                 in its users.
                 \_ They infact did this, soda was first paved over with
                    some bsd, but no one stepped forth to port stuff. Look
                    Linux in general has  "encouraged new thinking" hence it
                    supports more HW, has more drivers, and a larger user base.
                    \_ Really?  The source, filesystems, data, everything gone?
                       I don't remember that.
                 \_ #f.  The undergrads are porting old CSUA utils that
                    haven't been touched in years.  That's gotten them making
                    new software, like the wall -> rss tool michener rolled.
                    I think that's cool.  Don't you?
                    \_ When Soda was reinstalled with FreeBSD several years
                       ago, the stupid custom scripts from Dynix were
                       ported to FreeBSD.  We're not talking rocket
                       science here.  wall_hosers, wall, nwrite, whatever.
                       I'm sure most stuff will get ported to Linux
                       eventually.  To arbitrarily say "When FreeBSD
                       was installed all development stopped, but
                       now that we have Linux the undergrads have
                       have a new burst of creativity and productivity
                       by letting fucking google crawl the wall log"
                       is stupid.
                       \_ What exactly is arbitrary about the statement?
                          Please point me to the 1337 archives of software
                          that were written by CSUA undergrads between 1997
                          and 2005.  An undergrad took an existing CSUA
                          commmunity tool and extended it to make it available
                          via current technology, in this case, RSS.  What,
                          exactly, is your problem with that?  That it changes
                          things?  That it makes soda no longer your personal
                          playground where you make the rules?  Deal with it.
                          What part of Computer Science UNDERGRADUATE
                          Association don't you understand?
        \_ This (and thus wall logs) may be accessible by google now.
           Caveat emptor.
           \_ Not "caveat wallor"?
           \_ And this is bad, why?  Because it cracks open our insulated
              little sandbox to the world?
              \_ Paolo, why do you hate my sandbox? - danh
              \_ not bad. it just IS. I'm telling people so they know.
                 Good or Bad are niceties I don't have the time for. Cheers.
2006/4/15-5/21 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42772 Activity:nil
4/15    Soda is up -- in a testing sort of mode. This time, we're over on
        Debian. A lot of stuff should work as well as it did before on
        FreeBSD 6.1 -- and the stuff that is broken, well, one thing
        at a time. Special thanks to mconst, michener, mikeh, edilaic and
        mrauser -- should start a band, "4 M's and an E"
2006/4/15 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42747 Activity:nil
4/15    So much for "We are Berkeley we must use FreeBSD" :)
2006/3/30-31 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42531 Activity:nil
3/30    Possibly of interest to people following earlier motd discussion of
        linux (AssOS) and freebsd for high speed packet capture.
        www8.in.tum.de/research/papers/conext05schneider-poster.pdf
2006/3/25-26 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42421 Activity:very high
3/24    Wow!  FreeBSD sure is stable!  After seeing soda's amazing uptime
        record, I sure want to go replace my Linux boxes with FreeBSD!
        Please do not delete this, or burn down Linus' house because I have
        blasphemed the holy FreeBSD.  I'd love to see a genuine discussion with
        examples from both sides comparing the stability of *modern* FreeBSD
        and Linux machines running on x86 hardware. -dans
        \_ Wow!  You're sure a dumbass!
           \_ Wow!  You're a cunt.  A not particularly amusing one at that.
              I'm sorry, did I use facts to mock your operating system of
              choice? -dans
        \_ Hope you are not blaming all instability on our box, EECS network
           is undergoing some maintenance (as noted in motd.official) and thus
           much of any downtime experienced is due to all of eecs net being
           unavailible. -mrauser
        \_ How can you possibly compare soda to your X many production Linux
           or anything else installs?  Soda is nothing like a production box.
           Also, the idea that anyone's boxes have uptime of 2+ years just
           means someone isn't patching them.  It would be a very rare 2 year
           window for any mainstream unix/unix-like OS to not have a
           must-reboot patch, kernel update, etc.  Lengthy uptimes don't
           impress me with the quality of the OS.  They make me unimpressed
           with the lack of administrative quality time devoted to maintaining
           the machines.  Service uptime is critical, box uptime is not.
           Service uptime is what various load balancing schemes exist to
           provide.  As far as having latest shiney new driver or not, that
           depends on the environment.  A large budget facility doesn't need
           to care because the new shiney is coming from a large company who
           damned well better provide a production quality driver.  In a lesser
           environment I find it difficult to accept that there's some new
           shiney that was required for production business operations that
           didn't come with a good driver.  The rest is just toys.  Any
           hardware product that doesn't come with a good driver isn't
           production ready and doesn't go into my data center.  As far as
           desktops, shrug, I don't care.  That's all eye candy anyway.  Most
           users were just as productive with DOS 3.1 as they are with whatever
           is on their system today.  Probably more productive then since
           multi-tasking was extremely difficult so there were no distractions
           from email, surfing, downloading that new mp3, tweaking their
           desktop brackground to "just the right shade of pink", etc.
        \_ soda runs FreeBSD. soda is unstable. By induction all FreeBSD
        \- sloda runs FreeBSD. soda is unstable. By induction all FreeBSD
           machines are unstable and dans' brain has been classified as: small.
           Did you write this or did tom forge this to make you look like
           did you write this or did holube forge this to make you look like
           an idiot?
           \_ If you're the same asshole who called me a dumbass the last time,
              I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't read
              my response the first time.  You don't deserve I suspect you
              nuked the post when I lambasted your beloved FreeBSD with facts.
              My original comment is snarky and sarcastic, but dumbass guy
              [you?] is[/are] a stupid, humorless git who doesn't understand
              that humor and rigorous argument do not always serve the same
              purposes.  He wanted to throw a temper tantrum.  I'd like to read
              actual information.  I'll repeat what I said last time: in my
              experience with many (n > 50) modern (within in the last 4-5
              years) Linux boxen under moderate to heavy load, they have
              proved quite stable (ignoring several boxes with bad hardware,
              uptime ranging from 6 months to 2+ years and counting).  In my,
              admittedly limited (n approx 10), experience with FreeBSD hosts
              in the same time frame, uptime is around 3 months average, with
              2 instances like soda where uptime is measured in days or weeks,
              sometime as bad as hours.  If you want to be a dick, for reasons
              I don't understand, a disgustingly common characteristic of
              members of the FreeBSD community, and delete this thread, go
              ahead, I will repost.
              P.S. tom, is that you?  I know you're delusional, but, seriously
              this is over the top.
              -dans
              \_ Anybody want to make bets on whether dans will suffer
                 a brain malfunction or leave soda in disgust in the
                 next 12 months.  He seems to be showing some of the
                 early warning signs.  Yanking the dans chain is now
                 clearly an amateur sport.  Tom on the other hand is
                 immune to being shamed even after repeatedly making
                 immune to being sshamed even after repeatedly making
                 a fool out of himself.
                 \_ You're a pretty sorry troll, I give you a 2.7 out of 10.
                    Score includes the following mandatory deductions:
                    -2 not funny
                    -.7 verbose, which says a lot coming from someone with my
                        verbal diarrhea.
                    P.S. Interrogative statements are concluded with a
                    question mark, not a period.
                    P.P.S. I already suffer from a genetic brain malfunction,
                    the good news is that it's merely life threatening, not
                    behavorial like the dementia I suspect tom suffers from. :)
                    P.P.P.S. I'll take that action.  $100 says you're wrong.
                    -dans
              \_ Please don't get mad at me, but I think you may have been
                 trolled. Dude, name calling, insults, whatever, it's just
                 the motd and it's the norm, m'kay?   -not the pp
                 \_ Oh, it's cool.  I don't mind being trolled, especially
                    when it's well done, unlike the preceding.  I really want
                    to hear people's experiences with modern Linux and FreeBSD
                    uptimes. -dans
                    \- the problem with AssOS is not uptime. --psb
                       \_ Please enlighten me oh mighty, unbiased partha!
                          What is the problem with Linux?  Why is AssholeOS
                          superior?
                            One non-technical aspect of the two operating
                          systems that seems to play a key role in the success
                          and popularity of each is the ethos of their
                          supporting communities.
                            The Linux community is fundamentally more
                          supportive and inclusive.  This gives rise to a
                          particular problem, the hordes of L1NUX RUL3Z, M$
                          SUX0RZ kiddies, but, as long as you're not reading
                          Slashdot, it seems pretty easy to ignore them.
                          Also, some grow up into smart, clueful people.
                          Plus, the larger community size means there are more
                          people with clue in very specific, narrow areas who
                          take the time to write code, documentation, or
                          otherwise.  IMO, it's a net benefit for knowledge,
                          and it's obvious that Linux is significantly more
                          popular and widely used than FreeBSD.
                            The FreeBSD community, on the other hand, is
                          fundamentally exclusive and critical.  It seems to
                          be peopled largely with folks who believe they have
                          clue that was earned through years of pain and toil,
                          and lashings at the hands of community elders.
                          Consequently, members of the FreeBSD community seem
                          more interested in making n00bs suffer like they did
                          rather then helping folks out.  Its hard to evaluate
                          whether typical members of the FreeBSD community
                          actually have clue or not since they are so
                          unwilling to get of their high horse and share.
                          \- freebsd community unwilling to share?
                             this is delusional. kqueue, softupdate,
                             bpf, sort of, VM work.
                          Notably, Google uses Linux, not FreeBSD, are the
                          people that made that decision idiots and dumbasses?
                          Why? -dans
                          \- why do you think i am biased? ... i assume
                             you are claiming that my judgement is colored
                             by something other than the relevant facts,
                             rather than i have come to form an opinion?
                             i can accept that i am biased in my evaluation
                             of say MSFT products because i think they are
                             evil fuckers, but i dont think i am a priori
                             biased against linux. --psb
                             \_ You've been using the name AssOS for years.
                                This suggests that you are judging Linux based
                                on what it was many years ago when FreeBSD was
                                clearly superior.  Wouldn you fault Mac OS X
                                because Mac OS 9 left much to be desired?  Of
                                course not, that would be biased.  When was
                                the last time you looked at a modern version
                                of Linux without years of historical bias?  I
                                looked at FreeBSD 5.x RELEASE about six months
                                ago.  Also, you have yet to state any facts,
                                other than that stability is not the problem
                                with Linux.  What is? -dans
                                \- i dont "look at OSes" ... i have to work
                                   with them fairly consistently and frankly
                                   one of the irritations with linux is the
                                   "working set" of problems changes a lot.
                                   anyway, my point above was the problem
                                   with linux or freebsd is not "it keeps
                                   crashing". a rolex might be better than
                                   a rolexxx because the hands are less likely
                                   to fall off, but that's not a great standard
                                   to evaluate a ppatek vs rolex. BTW, i think
                                   solaris is a good operating system evaluated
                                   with evans hall rather than main street
                                   criteria. from a main street perspective
                                   yes it is annoying it doesnt ship with emacs
                                   but that's not really a technical criticism
                                   of the OS. i wish linux was in better shape
                                   while in the case of MSFT, i would be
                                   delighed to see them fail, get sued, lose
                                   mkt share etc. --psb
                                   \_ I work with operating systems too.  But
                                      first I look at an OS to decide if I
                                      want to work with it or not.  In the
                                      want to work with it or not.  You may
                                      not have that choice.  In the
                                      case of soda, however, and at least one
                                      other FreeBSD box I worked on or with,
                                      the issue was ``it keeps crashing,''
                                      and, frankly that's a non-starter.
                                      I think you and I have directly opposing
                                      attitudes on what we feel is important
                                      in a UNIX operating system.  It appears
                                      you like FreeBSD because it doesn't
                                      change, or it changes at a pace that does
                                      not disrupt your work habits.  I like
                                      Linux because it has wide support for
                                      most new hardware, and drivers mature at
                                      an alarming rate.  I find that using a
                                      solid distribution like Debian or
                                      [K]Ubuntu goes a long way to keeping the
                                      working set from changing too
                                      drastically.  It's true that,
                                      historically, the Linux kernel gets a
                                      major overhaul every every 1.5 to 2
                                      years.  This is often a big change,
                                      but it's rare that one *must* upgrade
                                      the kernel, much less do it urgently.
                                      Of course, if you want support for shiny
                                      new hardware like me, sometimes you need
                                      to bite the bullet and do it.  Don't
                                      even get me started on Solaris. -dans
                                      even get me started on Solaris.  I agree
                                      that not shipping with emacs is not a
                                      technical criticism, but, since the vast
                                      majority of software I use in any
                                      computing environment is Free/Open
                                      Source, it's important to have an easy
                                      way to install software without needing
                                      to build it from scratch and deal with
                                      dependency hell.  Solaris is awful for
                                      this, its package management tools are
                                      ancient.  Also, since Sun makes a lot of
                                      money off of training and support
                                      contracts, it is disincentivized from
                                      making Solaris easier to administer and
                                      use. -dans
                                      \- when linux breaks something like
                                         dump because of their performance-
                                         related decisions about how to
                                         deal with the buffer cache, i dont
                                         you cant just dismiss that "disrupting
                                         my personal work habits" or when
                                         they keep changing packet capture
                                         details. yes, i agree linux supports
                                         more hardware, probably has better
                                         desktop toys etc. however if you
                                         ever tried debuggins a crash dump
                                         you would be pretty clear why
                                         solaris >> linux. and i think
                                         ports is nicer than rpm and the
                                         design issue generally offsets the
                                         matter of ports lagging rpm often
                                         for shiny new stuff. sure, i've run
                                         into problems with bsd in somewhat
                                         obscure areas like udp coalescing
                                         with extremely small latency paths
                                         or pcap on machine with multiple
                                         interfaces and potentically
                                         asymmetric routes ... but on linux
                                         i have run into problem with cp
                                         and grep. --psb
--psb
                                         and grep. BTW, pcap is an area
                                         solaris/streams,dlpi sort of sucks
                                         compared to bsd/bpf too. --psb
                                         \_ I am well aware that the Solaris
                                            kernel and process/memory tracing
                                            utilities are vastly superior to
                                            FreeBSD's and Linux's.  It's just
                                            not something that's relevant to
                                            my present day needs.  rpm is shit,
                                            and I'm not a big fan of RedHat or
                                            its derivatives (I haven't touched
                                            it recently, I hear its'
                                            improved).  For package management,
                                            apt and its derivatives are so
                                            vastly superior to any other
                                            package management system I know
                                            of.  Does ports even support binary
                                            packages?  It's 2006.  Needing to
                                            \- you are unaware of freebsd
                                               options here.
                                            compile every piece of software
                                            that runs on a modern system is
                                            ridiculous.  Yes, compilation
                                            should always be available as a
                                            fallback/worst case scenario, but
                                            it shouldn't be the default mode
                                            of operation.  Keep changing
                                            packet capture details?  Doesn't
                                            everyone just use libpcap?  What's
                                                     \- do you understand
                                                        libpcap doesnt use
                                                        libpcap?
                                            changing regularly in Linux?  I
                                            suppose if you're used to dump,
                                            that's all well and good.  For my
                                            backup needs, rsync is a superior
                                            replacement for dump.  It sounds
                                                        \- dump is just one
                                                        manifestation of
                                                        something fudamentally
                                                        broken. i cannot give
                                                        you and os lecture here
                                                        you an os lecture here.
                                                        actually i am a little
                                                        curious how fsck works
                                                        on AssOS when linus
                                                        said he didnt approve
                                                        of raw devices.
                                            like you got bit on the ass by
                                            some truly annoying things in the
                                            past.  Do these problems exist on
                                            *modern* Linux machines?  Is it
                                            possible that the problem lies not
                                            with the kernel, but with the
                                            distribution?  I have *never*
                                            encountered problems like these on
                                            Debian, and I've been using it
                                            since the 2.2 kernel days. -dans
                                            \- yes, it is basically inevitable
                                               we will continue to be bit on
                                               the ass because the problems
                                               are not essentially technical
                                               but the priorities of the
                                               project. see e.g. the recent
                                               motd discussion about 64bit.
                                               ok maybe freebsd is lagging in
                                               64bit clean file systems, but
                                               at least you dont get weird
                                               surprises. oh, freebsd 5.4
                                               vs linux 2.6 on heavy gigabit
                                               links recent enough for you
                                               to talk about packet capture
                                               experiences? trust me, it isnt
                                               even close. yes, you can do
                                               some hacking and tweaking and
                                               get some hardware configs
                                               where linux is comparable
                                               or better [on intel+smp+special
                                               kernel patches on linux while
                                               running a mysql vs bsd out of
                                               the box running postgres] but
                                               fundamentally, at high rates
                                               where you are seeing 30% drops
                                               on linux, bsd is dropping 0.
                                               when it come to operating systems
                                               half a loaf is not always better
                                               than none. say linux has a
                                               flakey infiniband driver a
                                               year before freebsd has a solid
                                               one. it's unclear that year of
                                               lead time is a benefit. --psb
                                               \_ We can continue to split
                                                  hairs over bug foo that bit
                                                  us on the ass that one time
                                                  or driver bar that wasn't
                                                  available that other time.
                                                  I could counter your
                                                  hypothetical with the fact
                                                  that, generally speaking,
                                                  Linux supports more hardware
                                                  options which increases the
                                                  likelihood that, for any
                                                  given class of device, at
                                                  least one will have a driver
                                                  that does not suck, and I
                                                  easily find out which one
                                                  with Google.  Also, comparing
                                                  mysql to postgres is apples
                                                  and oranges.  mysql is fast
                                                  because it cuts corners and
                                                  is not ACID compliant with
                                                  the default myISAM tables.
                                                  I am dubious that, if you
                                                  ran the same database on
                                                  both systems, the
                                                  performance characteristics
                                                  would differ dramatically.
                                                  If mysql was 10% faster on
                                                  FreeBSD, don't you think
                                                  someone would be trumpeting
                                                  this fact loudly and
                                                  regularly?  Also, if FreeBSD
                                                  was so much faster or better
                                                  suited for production
                                                  environments, why does Linux
                                                  dominate in industry?  Why
                                                  did the smart folks at
                                                  Google choose Linux over
                                                  FreeBSD?  The questions are
                                                  largely rhetorical, but I
                                                  think they make it clear
                                                  that Linux is not a toy, and
                                                  referring to it as AssOS is
                                                  silly and a tad juvenile.
                                                  At this point, I'm willing
                                                  to agree to disagree since
                                                  our OS needs and desires are
                                                  quite different.  WRT soda,
                                                  if we rule out hardware
                                                  problems, I think it's
                                                  apparent that, FreeBSD is
                                                  not the best choice.  No,
                                                  I'm not advocating that Soda
                                                  run Linux, but I would like
                                                  it to be stable.  OS X
                                                  anyone? :) -dans
                                                  \_ OSX crashes just fine
                                                     for me.
        The overhead of Mach, the netinfo stuff _/
        and the general difficulty of remote admin'ing OS X sans Apple tools
        make it less than ideal for Soda.  My experience w/ linux customers
        suggests that linux works well in certain environments (single
        function dedicated servers: ex. technical computing,db serving, &c.;
        desk- tops) but its is not very stable/secure for a heavily used
        multiuser system like soda. Personally I think that OpenSolaris
        would be a better option for soda.
        multi- user system like soda. Personally I think that OpenSolaris
        would be a better bet for soda.
        Re FreeBSD - some reasons I prefer it to Linux are:
        1. pf and altq - much nicer than anything inLinux. (Yes I run OBSD
                                                  \_ The overhead of Mach,
                                                     the netinfo stuff and
                                                     the general difficulty
                                                     of remote admin'ing
                                                     OS X sans Apple tools
                                                     make it less than ideal
                                                     for Soda.
                                                     My experience w/ linux
                                                     customers suggests that
                                                     linux works well in
                                                     certain environments
                                                     (single function
                                                     dedicated servers: ex.
                                                     technical computing,
                                                     db serving, &c.; desk-
                                                     tops) but its is not
                                                     very stable/secure for
                                                     a heavily used multi-
                                                     user system like soda.
                                                     Personally I think that
                                                     OpenSolaris would be
                                                     a better bet for soda.
                                                     Re FreeBSD - some
                                                     reasons I prefer it
                                                     to Linux are:
                                                     1. pf and altq -
                                                        much nicer than
                                                        anything in Linux.
                                                        (Yes I run OBSD
           as well)
        2. /usr/ports - much nicer than apt or rpm. But I like rebuilding
           from src and excluding cruft in pkgs (I prefer dp to fink on
           OS X for the same reason).
        3. /usr/src - Don't have to hunt around for the src to a command/lib
           function if you run into a prob. This is a big problem on Linux,
           esp. w/ latest 64bit libc6, where it is hard to tell what all
           patches RH, SuSE, Debian, &c. applied.
        4. Rational development model - I hate having to read a bunch of email
           lists to figure out how to fix X feature on kernel Y.
        5. UFS + Softupdates vs. Ext3, XFS, JFS, &c. - My FreeBSD/OpenBSD
           boxes suffer little/no file corruption on power related crashes,
           while I've run into all sorts of problems on Linux systems w/
           so-call journaling fs.
        That said, I mostly work on Linux and it is okay. Mostly customers
        That said, I mostly work on Linux and its okay. Mostly customers
        like it b/c it is cheap and they can hire monkeys to maintain it or
        just reinstall if something doesn't work. Many customers just plan
        on wiping the OS every 2-3 mo and doing a clean install w/ latest
        patches b/c it is too hard to figure out how to run a stable linux
        system.
                                                     2. /usr/ports - much
                                                        nicer than apt or
                                                        rpm. But I like
                                                        rebuilding from
                                                        src and excluding
                                                        cruft in pkgs.
                                                     3. /usr/src - Don't
                                                        have to hunt around
                                                        for the src to a
                                                        command if you
                                                        run into a prob.
                                                     4. Rational development
                                                        I hate having to
                                                        read a bunch of
                                                        email lists to
                                                        figure out how to
                                                        fix X on kernel Y.
                                                     That said, I mostly
                                                     work on Linux and its
                                                     okay. Mostly customers
                                                     like it b/c it is
                                                     cheap and they can hire
                                                     monkeys to maintain it
                                                     or just reinstall if
                                                     something doesn't work.
                                                     Many customers just plan
                                                     on wiping the OS every
                                                     2-3 mo and doing a clean
                                                     install w/ latest patches
                                                     b/c it is too hard to
                                                     figure out how to run
                                                     a stable linux system.
                                              \_ Why did you run MySQL on
                                                 Linux in this comparison?
                                                 Both databases are
                                                 availible on both
                                                 systems.
                                                 \- i didnt mean to compare
                                                    mysql and postgres ...
                                                    the ideal was linux and
                                                    freebsd packet capture
                                                    end up using different
                                                    amounts of cpu which has
                                                    consequences when other
                                                    things are running on the
                                                    system. so there are
                                                    weird cases where linux
                                                    will do better, but they
                                                    are artificial cases ...
                                                    like when your gigabit
                                                    capture box is and old
                                                    enough single proc box to
                                                    run out of cpu cycles.
                                                    in this case the fact that
                                                    linux uses less cpu in
                                                    some cases is not really a
                                                    virtue since you would be
                                                    a dumbass to run a db on
                                                    your pcap box.
                                                    Here is a typical linux
                                                    and freebsd story: a linux
                                                    advocate who is a medium
                                                    profile figure in the linux
                                                    community sent us a note
                                                    about linux getting <10%
                                                    packet drops on a high
                                                    use gigE link where we
                                                    were seeing freebsd drops
                                                    in the 15-25% range i
                                                    believe. he wasnt exactly
                                                    crowing but was trying to
                                                    convince us linux didnt
                                                    suck any more. this greatly
                                                    surprised us and we would
                                                    have been delighted if this
                                                    were the case. but then we
                                                    ran the test on a testbed
                                                    network with a hardware
                                                    packet generator [so we
                                                    knew exactly how many
                                                    packets had gone by and
                                                    the rate as well] and it
                                                    it really turned out linux
                                                    was misreporting the
                                                    number of dropped packets.
                                                    (btw, this was a few
                                                    cpu generations ago.
                                                    amusingly sunhardware
                                                    which cost 3-5x of the
                                                    PCs couldnt come close
                                                    to keeping up because of
                                                    the heavy user space
                                                    processing). most people
                                                    doing their home testing
                                                    dont have hardware traffic
                                                    generators and probably
                                                    would have left with the
                                                    impression linux was
                                                    better/faster.
                                                    BTW, if you want to see
                                                    more bitching about linux
                                                    (old linux) read the SOSP
                                                    paper on the google fs.
                                                    it's very much if the flavor
                                                    of my complaints. BTW, as a
                                                    condition of hiring rob pike
                                                    GOOG committed to going to
                                                    plan9. --psb
                                                    \_ Thanks for the
                                                       discussion, it's quite
                                                       interesting.  I knew we
                                                       could get to this once
                                                       we got past trolling
                                                       and namecalling.
                                                       -dans
2006/3/15-16 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42241 Activity:nil
3/14    I'm looking for a good tutorial/howto for setting up IPSEC
        on my *BSD router/firewall. Basically I want to be able to
        access my home network while I'm on the road (iBook w/ OSX
        10.4), and I don't want to set up a bunch of SSH port forwards
        to talk to various services. Any pointers?

3/14
 _______________
< FEEL THE LOVE >
 ---------------
        \   ^__^
         \  (oo)\_______
            (__)\       )\/\   ~
                ||----w |   .   ~  smell the love!
                ||     ||  #=.#
                ||     || ,.#=..
        \_ There are a bunch of ways to do this.  Look at http://www.kame.net
           for one implementation (included in FBSD, I think).  The FreeBSD
           handbook also has a pretty good section on setting it up (just
           search the main handbook page for 'ipsec'.  Last but not least, may
           I humbly recommend running M0n0wall (http://www.m0n0.ch on WRAP
           or Soekris, as its IPSEC implementation is pretty airtight.  -John

3/14
 _______________
< FEEL THE LOVE >
 ---------------
        \   ^__^
         \  (oo)\_______
            (__)\       )\/\   ~
                ||----w |   .   ~  smell the love!
                ||     ||  #=.#
                ||     || ,.#=..
2006/3/10-13 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42188 Activity:low 72%like:42184
3/10    Isn't posner supposed to be smart?
        http://csua.org/u/f7i (news.com.com)
        \- What is your point? also since he would have been hearing it
           at the appelate level, his comment may be on some narrow legal
           point. i imagine he approaches this in interms of his econ
           approach about what ruling produces "efficient outcomes".
        \_ this is so fcuked up.
        \_ The guy who wrote the http://news.com.com must have read a different
           opinion than the linked Posner one.  Reading the linked Posner
           decision, what the http://news.com.com article claims are "two
           remarkable leaps" are actually just direct application of the
           US Code ("damage" includes "any impairment to the integrity or
           *availability* of data" [emphasis added]) or a previous decision
              \_ I disagree.  That US Code is "unconstitutionaly vague".
                 Simply deleting the files constitutes "impairent" to the
                 "availability of data." If attempting to delete the files
                 was a violation, then fine.  But the fact that he happened
                 (unlike most people) to know how to *actually* delete the
                 files, is, im(ns)ho, irrelevant.
           ("violating the duty of loyalty, or failing to disclose adverse
           interests, voids the agency relationship" State v. DiBiulio).
        \_ The way I read the statute, IAC needs to show the following
           in order to state a claim under the statute:
                1. Citrin knowingly transmitted a program
                2. To a protected computer; AND
                3. Citirn intentionally used that program
                4. To cause damage to the data on the computer; AND
                5. Citrin was not authorized to cause that damage.
           Posner is hearing the case on appeal from a dismissal for
           failure to state a claim. Basically, at this point his
           job is to assume that Citrin actually did all the things
           IAC says he did and figure out if that would be enough
           for IAC to get relief.
           Added to this is the suggestion that some of the data
           that was deleted may have been incriminating evidence
           re a breach of contract or breach of the duty of loyalty
           claim.
           Given that it is so early in the game and the potential
           destruction of evidence Posner seems to think that it is
           probably a good idea to have Citrin tell the trial judge
           his side of the story before the case is dismissed.
           Re "damage" == "delete": To me, it seems clear that it is
           within Congress' power to reach unauthorized deletions of
           data from a protected computer under the Commerce Clause.
           If you access my computer w/o my authorization, intentionally
           install srm(1) and then srm /bsd, I think Congress has the
           power to hold you liable.
           I don't see the 5th amend vaguness argument, please explain.
2006/3/9-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:42156 Activity:nil
3/9     OpenBSD 3.9 available for preorder:
        http://www.openbsd.org/39.html
        \_ When they changed binary formats and the only real upgrade path
           was "back up your data, install to a fresh disk and reinstall", I
           gave up, went to FreeBSD, figured out how to get 'pf' running on
           FreeBSD (it wasn't as well supported on FBSD then) and moved on.
           OBSD has that whole super security thing going on and CARP and
           whatnot but for a box doing anything more than just firewalling I'm
           a lot happier with FBSD.  I'd still use OBSD for a pure firewall,
           though in most circumstances.
           \_ FreeBSD did a binary format change at some point too.  Have you
              noticed how much of /csua/bin/ doesn't run now with exec format
              errors?
              \_ I think you can compile into the kernel binary compat
                 of older versions but i might now know what i am talking
                 about.
                 \_ You can compile in binary compat as far back as 2.x--each
                    version has had some form of binary change, although
                    between most major version changes, it didn't affect most
                    binaries as I recall.  The only one where I had to do a
                    ton of recompiling was 4.x to 5.x  -John
              \_ Between what versions?  I didn't use FBSD until 5.x.  Anyway,
                 what I was getting at is that OBSD was too limited in other
                 ways and that if I had to start from scratch anyway I was
                 going to use the more feature rich system that was 'secure
                 enough' for my needs.
                 \_ I completely agree. I pretty much only use OpenBSD for
                    firewall/routing. For everything else I use either FreeBSD
                    or OSX. It would be really k3wl if OSX started using pf
                    for its firewall.
2006/3/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Computer/SW/Editors/Vi] UID:42140 Activity:moderate
3/8     Poll, stupid political drivels make the motd:
        more interesting: .....
        stupid: ..
        \_ This poll question has an inherent bias!
        \_ What would the motd be w/o drivel?
           \_ more linux vs. freebsd drivels? vi vs. emacs drivels?
              I'll take technical drivels over pointless political ones any day
2006/2/28-3/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:42029 Activity:low
2/28    It switched again.  Lines from old and new motds:
        < FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE (MKVII) #0: Fri Dec 17 17:40:05 UTC 2004
        ---
        > FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE (SODA-MINIMAL) #0: Fri Dec 17 17:40:05 UTC 2004
        Although uname says we're still on soda-minimal.
        \_ I think there was a power failure.  Blame god.
        \_ Where can we see a record of the reboots and such?
           \_ man last
           \_ Bwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahaIamnotanassholeahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahaIamsoanassholeahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha
              I'm sorry.  Did you say something?  I was just struck by the
              uncontrollable urge to laugh at absurdity. -dans
              \_ Wow, you're an ass.
                 \_ A fucking ignorant ass, no less.
                    \_ No, the notion that the csua would keep records, ahem a
                       log, if you will, of system administration tasks above
                       and beyond what the system does automagically really is
                       laughable to anyone who spent enough time around the
                       csua to be even remotely familiar with its history and
                       culture.  So is the idea that requests for basic unix
                       information on the motd will be dignified with a
                       helpful response.  Though it does make me feel warm and
                       fuzzy that I can make anonymous cowards resort to
                       profanity in their ad hominem attacks. -dans
                       \_ So, given the choice between uselessly mouthing off,
                          providing an answer to a technical question, or
                          staying silent and not adding to the noise, you chose
                          to be a rude and useless jerk.  Nice.  At least tom
                          actually seems to have (and give) clue.  BTW, I don't
                          \_ tom_jerk > tom_clue
                             \_ heh
                          know which motd you've been reading, but I've seen
                          *a lot* of n00b questions get answered here without
                          empty sanctimoniuous snarkiness.
                             --does the ad hominem thing when PP's being a jerk
                          \_ When did we slip into your reality?  Why am I
                             typing with tentacles?  Where's that japanese
                             school girl?
                             Letting the days go by...
                             \_ Uhm, yeahhh....  Speaking of people with
                                reality issues....in my reality the *Japanese
                                schoolgirls* are the ones with the tentacles.
                                *sheesh*  kids these days....
                          \_ You call it noise.  I call it humor.  If you read
                             the motd regularly, then you'd know that I
                             provide helpful answers as well as deserved and
                             undeserved snarkiness.  In fact, I've got at
                             least two helpful responses in this motd alone
                             (see apache2 and sendmail threads).  Frankly, I
                             find your whole anonymous motd behaviorial critic
                             schtick to be pretty pathetic.  If it's so
                             important to you, at least have the courage to
                             sign your posts; I do. -dans
                             \_ *shrug*  Whatever floats your boat, dude.
                       \_ 'last' is what the op was looking for.  I don't think
                          they deserved to be abused for asking a question like
                          they did.  they certainly weren't asking for any
                          special logging or effort on anyone's part.
                                --doesn't do the ad hominen thing
           \_ "last | grep reboot".  I apologize in advance if this is actually
              useful info.
              \_ or "last reboot"
                 \_ Even better
                 \_ Excellent. Thanks. -op
2006/2/23-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:41975 Activity:low
2/23    Why the kernel change on soda?
        \_ to monitor domestic /etc/motd.public editting. This is done
           preemptively and justifiably to prevent motd terrorism.
        \_ more importantly who did it and is there going to be an
           announcement?
           \_ What change?  Clue me on the change.  uname -a says:
        FreeBSD http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu 5.3-RELEASE
        FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE #0: Fri Dec 17 17:40:05
        UTC 2004
        root@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/SODA-MINIMAL
        i386
        \_ It wasn't on this "SODA-MINIMAL" kernel before it was down earlier
           today.  It came back up with the current kernel.  It was on some
           other kernel earlier.  Can't recall which but maybe someone has
           the full motd including motd.official archived which shows the
           other kernel name.
           soda 2: uptime
           6:05PM  up  8:01, 97 users, load averages: 0.39, 0.49, 0.41
           \_ I am pretty sure soda is running SODA-MINIMAL.  Unless
              the admins are crazy privacy freaks, the kernel config
              files are hiding in /usr/src/sys/i386/conf
              \_ Shrug, it wasn't before the reboot according to the
                 motd.official entry.  Maybe that was wrong and just got
                 updated while it was down but *something* changed.
                 \_ If you really think root is monitoring the motd again
                    with the kernel, you should take a look at the output
                    of kldstat:
                    Id Refs Address    Size     Name
                     1    9 0xc0400000 35ce50   kernel
                     2   14 0xc075d000 537f0    acpi.ko
                     3    1 0xc3a22000 2000     blank_saver.ko
                     4    1 0xc3a56000 17000    linux.ko
                     If were rad I would unload blank_saver.ko and load my
                     own kernel module that logs motd edits and name it
                     the same thing.
                     \_ I never said any such thing.  I noticed a change in
                        motd.official after the reboot and asked what that
                        was about.  Nothing more.  All I said was, "Why the
                        kernel change on soda?"
        \_ Maybe SODA is setup to boot with a certain kernel that sucks,
           and after the power failure someone noticed oh no we booted
           on the old sucky kernel that is .00000000000000023432043200001
           less efficient than KERNEL-MINIMAL, so they rebooted
           after some slave could be at the prompt to press the
           'boot with KERNEL-MINIMAL' button.  Also, I am reading
           your mailspool.
           \_ Oh thank God!  I'm glad *someone* is reading my mail spool.
              Please let me know if anything interesting comes in and kill
              all the spam and viruses.  Thanks!
2006/1/25-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:41508 Activity:nil
1/25    FreeBSD users: What's the official way to specify network
        priority when configuring wireless networks on a laptop that
        travels between multiple networks?  Some are open AP, some use
        WEP, and some use WPA.  FreeBSD Handbook only mentions the
        manual ifconfig method.
        \_ I think elite people write their own custom scripts.
           This is a definite shortcoming with FreeBSD.
           \_ I found this documentation after my post, which describes
              using wpa_supplicant.  It seems to work for me some of the
              times, but not others.  Very inconsistent. -op
              http://www.freebsdmall.com/~loader/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/wireless/article.html
              http://tinyurl.com/ckjyy (freebsdmall.com)
2005/12/15 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:41042 Activity:nil
12/15   What differences between Linux and BSD could explain the difference
        in the speed of output from simple text commands that spew several
        lines of output. From my Mac, when I run these commands on a linux
        box there is a lag. Looks like the lines are printed one at a time.
        When I run the same commands on a BSD box, it looks like all the lines
        print together, and it is much snappier. When I login from linux to
        linux, there is no noticable lag.
2005/12/12-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:40972 Activity:nil
12/12   Kirk McKusick is organizing a FreeBSD code reading class in Berkeley
        this spring:
        http://www.bsdforums.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37379
        \_ Is this anything like a poetry or bible reading?
           \_ Pretty much.
2005/12/4-2006/4/7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:40835 Activity:nil
FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE (MKVII) #0: Fri Dec 17 17:40:05 UTC 2004

Welcome to Macintosh^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSoda Mark VII,
a dual Xeon 2.8GHz with many hozers.
2005/10/28-31 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:40319 Activity:low
10/29   It's been over 10 years since I took 162. What is a good place
        for a refresher course on the architecture and advantages vs.
        disadvantages of using various file systems for BSD, Linux,
        MacOS, NT/XP, and others? ok thx.
        \_ And the legendary FAT.
        \_ And HPFS, NTFS, and the legendary FAT.
        \_ i think newer editions of the dinosauar book cover this
           \_ It's funny that my 164 book (Sp '92) also has a dinosaur on the
              cover.
              \_ It's a dragon.  Hence the compilers book (ASU) is known as
                 the dragon book.
2005/10/14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:40094 Activity:nil
10/14   So what are the stuff jvarga thinks still need work on freebsd
        new soda?
        \_ new soda doesn't need any investments in equipments and
           software upgrades. instead, new soda seriously needs
           investments in tech training for a new generation of competent,
           helpful, and caring sysadms. if you have a choice, always
           invest in the people first. the current politburo is a fine
           example of what happens otherwise.
2005/9/28-30 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:39920 Activity:nil
9/28    In FreeBSD, how can I find out how much RAM my video card has?
2005/9/24-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Languages] UID:39858 Activity:low
9/24    Hi, I'm finding myself having to convert network order
        to host order for uint_16 as follows, is there a cleaner way?
            src = buffer[2];
            src = src << 8;
            src += buffer[1];
        \_ man htons
        \_ Uhm, I don't think your way is even correct.
           1. Do you really mean to use 1-based array indices?
           2. You're always storing the most-significant-byte in the
              position of the least-significant-byte. (Note that this is
              irrelevant to whether your host is big- or little-endian.)
              Simply writing src = buffer[0] << 8 | buffer[1] should be
              sufficient.
              \_ I thought network order was LSB first?  So it should be:
                 src = buffer[1] << 8 | buffer[0]
                 \_ You thought wrong.  Do some homework.
           \_ If you are overlaying a buffer onto the short, that is
              inherently endian-dependent. Use htons, duh.
              \_ He's not overlaying a buffer onto a short.  He's reading it
                 into a buffer first.  When he reads it out of the buffer
                 with shift and bitwise operators, the endianness of the host
                 is irrelevant. (And I'm not suggesting not to use htos, I'm
                 just saying that what he wrote originally was wrong.)
                 \- "is there a cleaner way" ... gee, ya think?
                    if this is for work, have them buy you all the stevens
                    books. if they will only buy you one, probably get
                    STEVENS: Network Programming v1. I have the 2nd ed but
                    I am sure the edition++ is fine if not better eventhough
                    STEVENS -> dead. This is "the standard". oktnx. --psb
                    STEVENS -> dead. Like VAX BSD 4.2/4.3, this is "the
                    standard".  oktnx. --psb
2005/9/17-19 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:39725 Activity:nil
9/17    OpenBSD 3.8 available for preorder:
        http://www.openbsd.org/38.html
2005/9/8-10 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:39574 Activity:nil
9/8     Anyone ever get evolution (freebsd 5.4) and exchange server to
        work with shared folders/calendars ?
2005/6/6-7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:37983 Activity:kinda low
6/6     Does anyone use FreeBSD on laptop for daily use? I'm thinking
        about replacing my iBook w/ a ToughBook or a ThinkPad b/c I
        need to occasionally dual book Windows and I want to get an
        idea of how well FreeBSD works on laptops before I do this.
        I'm open to Linux but based on my experiences at work, I just
        don't think I can get along w/ it for personal use on a daily
        basis.
        \_ Be very careful about your choice of Thinkpads.  I have used
           4.10-R beautifully on an X20, but had no end of trouble getting
           it running on an X31.  There are plenty of FreeBSD-on-Thinkpad
           pages, though.  For hardware quality, they're great.  Drop me
           a mail @my other address (in my .plan) if you need some hints.  I
           found that Debian is actually very nice in terms of usability as
           well as wireless support (some Prism stuff under FreeBSD is a bit
           b0rked, but it depends on what you intend to do with it.)  One of
           the main problems I've seen with TPs is that ACPI is just weird,
           and Atheros card support can be spotty under FBSD.  -John
        \_ Is Linux an option? Linux has a plethora of drivers for
           wireless available through ndiswrapper. Sleep and hibernate
           also work if you tweak the kernel. Is there a compelling
           reason to stick with FreeBSD?
           \_ FreeBSD-stable-5 has ndiswrapper. - danh
              \_ Which is shit if you're trying to do passive sniffing.  -John
                 \_ How so?  can't do AP/monitor mode?
                    \_ Don't believe so.  You shouldn't need ndiswrapper
                       unless there are no native drivers available.  This
                       is often the case with some Atheros cards, although the
                       madwifi package is getting there.  -John
                       \_ ditto for centrino
           \_ But how many piM-qatas does it have?
           \_ I'm just more comfortable w/ {Open,Free}BSD, but I guess
              I could go back to running Linux.  My main problem w/
              Linux was that I could never keep track of patches, &c.
              and everything needed some sort of "unofficial" patch
              in order to run and I just got tired of having to keep
              everything patched in order to keep it running.
        \_ If you want to be able to do passive sniffing, you can do this on a
           Powerbook with an Orinoco (Prism chipset) wireless card and KisMac.
           KisMac actually installs its own drivers when you start it up, and
           removes them when you quit.  It's pretty slick. -dans
           \_ Auditor--http://www.remote-exploit.org  -John
              \_ But does it run natively on OS X?  I saw that they offer a
                 Knoppix LiveCD, which is nice, but I'd just as soon not
                 reboot. -dans
                 \_ It's no longer Knoppix based, and it's a whole liveCD
                    package--imho the single best security/wireless analysis
                    toolkit I've seen.  For a good single passive scanner you
                    want Wellenreiter (Kismet derivatives are good too.)  I
                    understand that Max is going to release a usb key bootable
                    Auditor versionsoon.  -John
        \_ Atheros cards work nicely on my thinkpad in linux.  Haven't had
           a need to try wireless sniffing, but many docs suggest this works
           \_ Some cards are great.  Some are ass.  Mine (8511?) has enormous
           \_ Some cards are great.  Some are ass.  Mine (5211) has enormous
              amounts of trouble.  -John
2005/5/9-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:37592 Activity:nil
5/9     FreeBSD 5.4 Released
        http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.4R/announce.html
        \_ uh, who use FreeBSD nowadays?
           \_ uh, you?
           \_ Me, Soda, GTA, F5, M0n0wall, oodles of hosting providers, loads
              of security/network box providers, etc, etc etc.  Now go
              away.  -John
              \_ John, did you switch from OpenBSD to FreeBSD? I've been
                 using OpenBSD for my home firewall for sometime, but
                 I've been thinking about switching as well b/c pf is
                 now part of FreeBSD.  Is there anything that I should
                 be aware of in terms of FreeBSD patching/security in
                 comparison to OpenBSD? tia
                 \_ I just really like ports and cvsup; I got sick of OpenBSD
                    trying to be too secure and of plowing through piles of
                    docs to find what it had turned off today.  I have a
                    WRAP from pcengines.ch running M0n0wall (http://www.m0n0.ch/wall
                    and it's teh whoopass.  -John
2005/5/3-5 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:37508 Activity:nil
5/3     Windows can pull a file out of its butt to Hibernate
        to, why can't FreeBSD/Linux? - danh
        \_ They can, but you have to leave the hibernate partition, and
           you might need to specify it in the kernel if the default
           kernel you're using doesn't have the right APM options.  -tom
           \_ so why is windows so cool?
              \_ part of the problem is reinitializing all of the components
                 after waking up.  It's more true when the device driver had
                 to be reverse-engineered.  There was one line of audio
                 chipset in a laptop that needed a special driver from the
                 manufacturer to behave properly after hibernation.  Even
                 the basic Windows (2k) driver couldn't get it to work
                 after hibernation w/o the proprietary driver.
2005/4/28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:37395 Activity:nil
4/28    Company bought me a  port switcher such that I can use one
        setup to switch between a FreeBSD and Windows machine. Switcher works
        perfectly for windows but I am having problems with it under
        FreeBSD.Problem seems to be related to the fact that I need to
        us a usb-ps2 converter to hook my mouse up to the converter.
        FreeBSD seems to have problems identiying the mouse.
        I see the same behavior when I  just plug it into the ps2 port
        directly. Is this a linux kernel issue perhaps?
        Wish the company had spent the extra $50 to get a switcher
        that was usb instead of ps2. -- lonely linux geek in a windoze realm
        \_ Do you mean FreeBSD kernel?
           -- Yes. FreeBSD 5.3.
2005/4/24-25 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:37342 Activity:nil
4/23    Can I determine the number of rows and columns available to an
        interactive terminal session from a shell script?  If so, how?
        Thanks.
        \_ On FreeBSD or Linux, run "stty size".  On other systems you can
           usually find it in "stty -a", but that's more annoying.  --mconst
           \_ 'stty size' works on OS X and OpenBSD as well
2005/3/30-31 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36958 Activity:nil
3/29    Does anyone know how to make multiple computers do PXE network
        boot? I'm trying to build low-end diskless clusters but I don't
        know where to begin, like which PXE server to use, how to prepare
        boot image or partition HD, etc. Thanks.
        \_ OS?  FreeBSD has pxeboot, Linux has pxelinux, and I believe there
           are a bunch of Windows tools.  (I'm assuming x86-based.)  I have
           some old configs for the first two if you want.  -John
        \_ You might also look at DragonFlyBSD, which forked off from
           FreeBSD 4.x and has done a lot of work for this sort of network
           boot scenario. http://shiningsilence.com/dbsdlog highlights some of it.
2005/3/26-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36899 Activity:low
3/26    Hello, I have a 220 gig IDE drive in a firewire enclosure,
        using one giant FAT32 partition.  My FreeBSD machine
        refuses to mount it.  What do I do?  - danh
        \_ Does the bridge board in the controller support lba48?
        \_ USE LINUX!  (damn it felt good to say that)
2005/3/24-28 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36865 Activity:nil
3/24    OpenBSD 3.7 available for pre-order:
        http://www.openbsd.org/items.html#37
2005/3/23-24 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36822 Activity:nil
3/23    graphical tool in linux/freebsd that lets me mess
        around with my WEP key and ssid id?
2005/3/16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36713 Activity:nil
3/16    I run FreeBSD.  I keep my ports tree updated.  I know what
        tinderbox is.  I know how to set my PACKAGESITE.
        When I upgrade or install something huge
        like gnome or kde or openoffice with portupgrade or pkg_add,
        I want FreeBSD to grab the latest package instead of
        determining that the latest available port of libgnome is 2.01_1,
        but the most recently available package is 2.01 so it
        tries to compile the port from source.  I would be fine with
        the package for 2.01.  How do I do this? - danh
2005/3/9-10 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36594 Activity:nil
3/9     OpenSSH 4.0 is out:
        Announcement: http://tinyurl.com/5aea4
        Portable: http://www.openssh.com/portable.html
        OpenBSD: http://www.openssh.com/openbsd.html
        Nifty new feature is the connection multi-plexing.
        \_ What is that?
           \_ Once you start one connection to a remote system, other
              connections will use the same key pair so you don't have
              to pay the cost of a new DH exchange (at least this is
              the impression I got from reading the mailing list)
2005/2/24-25 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:36394 Activity:low
2/23    How do I make sound work after a suspend on a Dell laptop
        with FreeBSD 5, without rebooting? - danh
        \_ What's it doing?  Are you running esound or some other multiplexer?
        \_ just an idea, but sometimes muting and unmuting fixes some cards.
        \_ I figured it out, I unloaded then loaded some kernel modules
           and sound works. - danh
2005/2/20-21 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:36339 Activity:moderate
2/20    I have several gigs of files that I need to transfer from a bsd
        machine to an os x machine. What's an efficient way of doing this?
        (It's way too many files to gmail to myself.)
        \_ Umm, have you heard of ftp, http, scp, rsync, etc.? Email is one
           of the least efficient means imaginable for this kind of thing.
        \_ rsync, followed by tar | ssh, followed by create a tar/gz file and
           use any of the other methods.
                \_ Thanks, but I ended up just using ftp (dont' know why I
                   didn't thinking of it myself). -op
2005/1/14-17 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:35725 Activity:moderate
1/14    I want to run imap and pop on a FreeBSD computer.  Can somebody
        recommed which imap suite to use.  For less than 100users in a
        NIS domain.
        \_ Courier is pretty nice. I've been running it on a debian
           server for over a year for pop and imap over ssl.
        \_ cyrus imapd
        \_ I am using Dovecot for imaps and Postfix+TLS for outgoing
           mail.  It's pretty solid, works happily with sasl2, and also
           lets me run regular imap for my SSL openwebmail server.  I would
           be glad to share my configs if you want.  -John
        \_ I've run both Courier and Cyrus.  I ran into problems with Courier
           scaling when there were either a) many users or b) a handful of
           users with large mailboxes (i.e. > 1000 messages).  Cyrus indexes
           its mailboxes so it handles large mailboxes much more gracefully.
           Cyrus is a pain in the ass to install, which is annoying because
           you really want to be running Cyrus 2.2.x and 1.5.x is the only
           version packaged for Debian.  Both Courier and Cyrus work with
           sasl2.  If you decide to run Cyrus, let me know and I can send you
           configs and my messy install notes.
           -dans
           \_ There has been a change of plans.  I managed to port some
              code to my Solaris box and can milk a little more life out
              of it.  Thanks for the feedback.  We now return to our aaron
              and tom lovefest.  -op
2004/12/15 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:35307 Activity:low 50%like:34252
12/15   What the heck, the motd is so boring today, where are all the trolls?
        \_ Bush sucks dude. Move to canada. We are losing the war on
           terror because of scumbags like you. FreeBSD is the real OS
           of manly men. Ilyas needs to be squashed. Tom needs to fuck
           Ilyas.
           \_ Real Mem Use Linux.   --- baited
2004/12/13-14 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:35257 Activity:nil
12/23   To the guy who got FreeBSD or Linux kernel 2.6.6 running on an X40,
        I'd love to see your config if you'll share.  -John
        \_ mee too.  and John, do you have X31?  I am thinking about
           buying X31 instead of X40.           kngharv
           \_ Yes.  I am told the X40 is not made as well.  X31 is very good
              quality and a fine laptop; both FreeBSD 5.3-R and Linux 2.6.6
              have some hardware issues, but I think this is model-dependent
              and should be resolved in the next few releases of either OS.
              Mail me for details.  -John
2004/12/12-13 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:35252 Activity:nil
12/12   So NetBSD 2.0 is out- have any FreeBSD types tried switching to it
        recently?  What sort of gotchas might I run into if I were to
        install it on a personal server?  Does it still support stuff like
        jails?  Is the installer comparable to / better than FreeBSD's?
2004/12/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:35204 Activity:moderate
12/7    Anyone have experience with FreeBSD on UltraSparc?  I have a few
        of them at work unused and unmaintained gathering dust.  I am
        thinking of putting FreeBSD on it to run bugzilla.  Does the
        Sparc version's /usr/ports as good as the x86 ones?
        \_ If it's anything like OpenBSD on Sparc, make sure it's nice and
           cool.  Mine hung itself up a lot.  -John
        \_ Other than the geekiness factor, what's the point of running
           FreeBSD on USparc? Do you need to hack the kernel somehow?
           \_ FreeBSD is a nice OS, and Suns are nice boxes.  -John
              \_ I guess the point here is that the OP can save himself
                 trouble by running Solaris on them. Bugzilla runs fine
                 on Solaris. Why is he bothering with FreeBSD?
                 \_ No /usr/ports on Solaris, no pf on solaris.
                    Ultrasparc boxes are nice and can be easily
                    jumpstarted w/o all the hassle of pxe.
           \_ the reason is the IT here knows nothing about Solaris.
              The design team has moved onto Linux.  The IT won't
              admit they don't know how to admin a Solaris box.  And
              it is probably cheaper to buy a new PC running Linux than
              paying for Sun support.  So a few Blade 1000 are sitting
              here not even powered-on.  IT doesn't care and refuse
              to care.  I have experience and know where to download
              FreeBSD.  I have zero knowledge on Solaris. -op
2004/12/6-7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:35191 Activity:nil
12/6    Keeping freebsd up-to-date:
        http://www.taosecurity.com/keeping_freebsd_up-to-date.html
2004/11/17-20 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:34944 Activity:low 66%like:36413
11/17   /csua/tmp/theplay_long.ram
        \_ What's the best way to play .ram files on FreeBSD?
           \_ wine?
        \_ What's that?
           \_ The Play.
              \_ I'd rather see the Anti-Play from '90.
2004/11/10-11 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:34799 Activity:nil
11/10   I'm evaluating a bunch of FreeBSD 4.x-based firewalls booting from CF
        cards on a pcengines.ch WRAP board (basically a better Soekris with
        Natl. Geode CPU).  One works fine, but the other will not load the
        kernel properly on any but a small number of CF models.  The CF cards
        are fine, regular FreeBSD can disklabel & mount them, but the vendor
        of the other software (GTA GBWare) says there are "timing issues" with
        all but very few cards.  Just out of pure curiosity, has anyone
        encountered this sort of thing before?  -John
2004/11/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:34767 Activity:nil
11/8    FreeBSD 5.3 is out:
        http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.3R/announce.html
2004/11/4-6 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:34655 Activity:nil
11/04   (Sorry, but this fell victim to troll scroll, so again:)
        Does anyone know of or can someone recommend a company (not a one-man
        consulting show) that will support an open source firewall product
        for a large corporation?  BSD-based, a bunch of PHP, etc.  I'm looking
        for someone to do features development, 3d level support, and general
        management "peace of mind"...
        \_ http://mnl.com  For more info, feel free to mail me:
           david+d+1100247667.250b72@bushong.net  --dbushong
2004/10/26-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:34363 Activity:nil
10/26   I need a few standard icons for a small web app I'm doing (up/down
        arrows, +/-, that sort of thing).  Is there some sort of BSD-licensed
        collection of these online?
        \_ I'd just find some BSD app with ones you like and rip-off theirs.
           When I needed something along these lines I just spent an hour or
           so in an image editing program using simple geometry tools.
           Also, have you considered just using the icons from Apache (which
           has a BSD-style license)?
2004/10/10-11/4 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:34012 Activity:nil
10/10   Please help us test out NFS.  Take a look at the README file in
        /linux-nfs and /freebsd-nfs.  Use one, use both, have fun, break
        stuff.
2004/10/4 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:33906 Activity:low
10/4    I'm looking around for various *nix-based small firewall packages,
        ideally with a web admin gui.  I'd like to have something that "just
        runs" (as opposed to a fully installed OpenBSD/pf box.) I'm looking at
        both open source and commercial (as long as it's reasonably low cost.)
        M0n0wall and ipcop both look kind of cool, LEAF sems a bit
        "unfinished".  Does anyone have any other recommendations?  -John
        \_ http://www.gta.com/products/gb200Tech
           http://www.gta.com/products/gbwareTech
           http://tinyurl.com/27sby (cisco pix 501)
           \_ The consortium thanks you.  -John
2004/10/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/Networking] UID:33870 Activity:moderate
9/30    how do i make my 3com wireless card work with freebsd?
        \_ First, find out what the chipset is (google is your friend.)
           Then, some cards are only supported under 5.x (32 bit cards.)
           Find out what driver supports that chipset, compile it into
           your kernel, and voila.  -John
2004/8/28-29 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:33198 Activity:nil
8/28    Has anybody ever used /etc/libmap.conf (FreeBSD) to map .so deps
        to a newer/older revision number?  It looks like it avoids that
        nasty business of adding 30 new symlinks everytime you pkg_add
        firefox.
        http://www.freebsdchina.org/utils/phpMan.php/man/libmap.conf/5
2004/8/26-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:33167 Activity:low
8/26    OpenBSD 3.6 now available for pre-order. The release date
        is Nov. 1. 3.6 has lots of new features including SMP
        support (yay!).
        \_ Yeah, whatever.  After years of no SMP and then they switched
           binary formats with no upgrade path and before that stopped
           letting people download ISOs, I simply gave up.  Freebsd + pf
           port is all I need, thanks.
2004/8/24 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:33099 Activity:high
8/24    I asked a few weeks ago about good data backup solutions, and I finally
        settled on a large NTFS partition with a 15GB FAT32 "transfer"
        partition (so that I can write to the disk via FreeBSD/OS X).  But I
        still need a good USB drive enclosure; the one I was using grew
        painfullyy hot during normal operation.  Quiet, cool, and low-power are
        my biggest concerns; any recommendations?  tia.
        \_ http://csua.org/u/702  Runs cool for me, no fan.
           \_ On its way, thanks. -op
2004/8/14-16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:32901 Activity:moderate
8/14    Any good experiences with automated MP3 tagger/renamer/organizer?
        I've got some stuff that has good file names, some with good ID3s info,
        and some with neither, so musicbrainz support might be nice.
        FreeBSD, Win2k, or OS X, hopefully less than $40?
        \_ Tag & Rename is great, though it's freeware only for 30 days
        \_ mp3tag is okay and free. http://www.mp3tag.de/en
        \_ mp3tag is okay and free. http://www.mp3tag.de/en
        \_ easytag seems okay, and it's free too
        \_ I liked ID3-Tagit
2004/7/27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/Unix, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:32505 Activity:nil
7/26    is there a way to list the file in your user space that has the largest
        size?  (Thank you all for the help except that idiot posted the rm
        command)
        \_ rm -Rf ~/
           \_ does anyone ever use R instead of r?
        \_ ls | sort | head
        \_ ls -lR | sort +4rn     But this won't tell you which directory
                                  the files are in.
        \_ du -k $HOME | sort -nr -k1,1 | head
           This should give you the files sizes of the largest files and
           directories in your home directory. If you want just files:
           { find $HOME -depth -type f -print0 | \
             xargs -0 ls -l | sort -rn -k5,5 ; } 2> /dev/null | head
           BTW, -print0 and xargs -0 only work on *BSD, OS X and Linux.
2004/7/13 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:32244 Activity:high
7/12    I just upgraded to Firefox .9 on FreeBSD 4 using a binary package,
        but it's got a ton of library dependencies on slightly older .so
        files.  Is there any way I can tell the linker to just "try your
        best" and update the links to whatever's available?  The only
        thing that's ever worked in this case is installing from ports or
        while (sane) ln -s libFoo-1.8.so.200 libFoo-1.8.so.201
        \_ Dunno about "best try", but you could always do a make world
           and portupgrade -a (assuming you installed that from ports.) -John
2004/7/5-6 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:31168 Activity:nil
05/07   A while ago I was having a lot of trouble getting Postfix to use
        SASL2 auth for sending mail on FreeBSD.  This link (including the
        errata at the bottom!) shows how to do it painlessly:
        http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200306/postfix-sasl.html  -John
2004/6/25-26 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:31016 Activity:nil
6/25    OpenBSD SMP support now available on Opteron:
        http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20040625160304
2004/6/23-24 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30977 Activity:very high
6/23    pf now in netbsd current:
        http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.netbsd.devel.cvs/48868
        \_ It was a bit ugly to get working in fbsd.  How hard was it to
           get installed and running on netbsd?
           \_ How ugly?  Compiled right out of ports on my 5.2 box.  Works
              a charm.  -John
              \_ You need to build a custom kernel.
                 \_ You do? Seemed to work in 5.2.1 by just typing make
                    install in /usr/ports.
        \_ Why do you hate hackers?
                    \_ Didn't on mine.  The GENERIC kernel options weren't
                       quite right.
           \_ Wow you are really cool.  Will you impregnate my sister.
2004/6/17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30854 Activity:high
6/17    [continued LGPL thread]
        \_ Option 2 doesn't work, because you can't make an LGPL wrapper to
           a GPL'd library.  The wrapper itself must be licensed under the
           GPL too.
             \_ This is not correct. You can create lgpl wrappers for
                gpl libraries. If you read the lgpl it allows you to
                dual license your code (gpl does not) so you can have
                the wrapper avail under gpl and lgpl which solves this
                problem.
                \_ The GPL does not prevent you from dual-licensing your
                   *own* code.  Dual-licensing doesn't apply here anyway.
                   Your wrapper--by linking to the GPL'd library--is a
                   derivative work.  As a derivative work, the authors of
                   the GPL'd library have partial ownership of it.  You
                   can't dual-license your wrapper without their
                   permission.  Hence, your wrapper must be *solely* GPL'd
                   if distributed, and now you're back at square one.
                   \_ Okay, I think I understand now. Please see below
                      (... wasted a bunch of time ...)
        \_ Like I said on the original thread.  The whole GPL thing is a big
           fucking mess.  No one truly knows what is and is not a violation and
           can't and won't until a court settles it.  In the meantime do what
           you think is the right thing and don't sweat it.  IMO, distributing
           the gpl code & license with your project is perfectly ok.
        \_ Okay, I wasted a bunch of time reading about this. There seem to
           be two conflicting pov. The FSF pov is that if you use a gpl lib
           that doesn't contain the following exception:
           http://tinyurl.com/34y7o (gnu.org)
           then the resulting program must be gpl'ed.
           There is another pov which is that if your program dynamically
           links with the library then you can release your program under
           bsd w/o problems. The closest analogy I could find was that
           dynamic linking is like references in a book: w/o the source of
           the ref. you cannot understand the reference but the person
           making the ref. is not creating a "derivative work" simply by
           saying look in book a on pg x for a complete discussion.
           I have come to the conclusion that the GPL is stupid and that
           the only reasonable open src stuff is licensed under BSD or
           X/MIT.
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:30826 Activity:very high
6/16    I just got a new dual proc xeon server that will be replacing an
        old E250 running Solaris. Gentoo is looking pretty good to me, but
        I don't have too much experience w/ Linux/BSD. Instead of igniting
        a flamewar, does anyone have a good URL that might line up the various
        x86 *nixes so that I might figure out which is best for me? I've used
        Debian in the past, but that was a while back.
        \_ What are you going to use it for?  It may not matter which one.  It
           is likely that whatever you or the eventually sysadmin or end users
           are most comfortable with is the 'best' OS for your purposes.
        \_ In the same vein, are there any specific disadvantages to ReiserFS
           over ext3?
2004/6/16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30825 Activity:high
6/16    License question:  There is a library Foo, which is licensed under
        the GPL.  I write a library Bar, which links to Foo.  Can I license Bar
        under the BSD license?  I know that unless Foo is under the LGPL I
        can't link it so code under a more restrictive license, but BSD is less
        restrictive, so can it be linked to code under the regular GPL?
        \_ No.  A BSD license allows one to redistribute software without the
           accompanying source code, which would render the GPL irrelevant.
           \_ But what if I distribute both libraries with source and their
              respective licenses?  I want to permit people to take Bar and
              do whatever they want with it.  Obviously if they want to use it
              with Foo they'd have to respect the GPL.
              \_ You could probably do that (make it abundantly clear that
                 there are two licenses covering the respective code, or
                 otherwise just distribute Bar and tell people to d/l Foo from
                 http:// But unless Bar can function without Foo (say by
                 swapping in a commercially-licensed library that implements
                 the same interface) your library will essentially be GPL,
                 and any attempts to get around that might be seen as
                 misleading.  Note that FreeBSD (and others?) has included
                 GPL code from time to time in their distro (tar, gmake)
                 but that's being slowly phased out because some believe it
                 confuses the issue.  Btw, what code is this?  You might be
                 able to contact the maintainers of Foo and ask them to grant
                 a special license to your project if you've got a good reason.
                 \_ Bar *can* function standalone.  The code is roughly like:
                    Foo: File reader and data processing for Format1
                    Bar: File reader and data processing for Format2
                         Data visualization for Format1 or Format2.
        \_ There are two points of view on this. It depends on whether or
           not the interface to a function can be considered as gpl'ed.
           1. Interfaces are not covered by gpl pov:
              Provided that a pgm can link w/ foo and bar dynamically,
              bar can be released under bsd even if foo is gpl.
           2. Interfaces are covered by gpl pov:
              Since foo is gpl, bar must be released gpl. There is a
              way around this. Write a lgpl wrapper (blatz) to the gpl
              lib (you don't need to wrap every function in foo, just
              the ones you need). Make bar use blatz. Now bar can be
              released under bsd, since it doesn't depend on gpl'ed
              interfaces.
           If this is commerical code, I'd play it safe and go with
           option 2 since gpl idiots are a pita and you don't want
           to deal with them.
           \_ Option 2 doesn't work, because you can't make an LGPL wrapper to
              a GPL'd library.  The wrapper itself must be licensed under the
              GPL too.
                \_ This is not correct. You can create lgpl wrappers for
                   gpl libraries. If you read the lgpl it allows you to
                   dual license your code (gpl does not) so you can have
                   the wrapper avail under gpl and lgpl which solves this
                   problem.
        \_ The problem with all these hokey license schemes is that these sorts
           of issues keep coming up and you'll get multiple answers depending
           on who you talk to.  People are GPLing code without understanding
           what that means.  Why don't they?  Are they stupid or ignorant?  No,
           it is because the GPL is a mess that only became more confused when
           they introduced the LGPL.  Eventually some court will sort the whole
           thing out for good or bad.  Until then, do whatever your concious
           dictates and don't worry about it.  IMO, you should be able to
           release both and provide the license terms for each or maybe have
           some hokey yes/no prompt for accepting the GPL terms or whatever if
           you feel guilty about the other library.  You're treading on
           religious turf so no matter what you do someone is going to say
           you're wrong, evil, or both.
2004/6/2 [Computer/HW/CPU, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30545 Activity:nil
6/2     I'm curious about ideas for computer naming schemes.  Please suggest
        a few.
        Roman/Greek Gods
        Alcoholic Drinks
        Famous Scholars
        Actors/Actresses
        Body Parts
        Porn Stars
        \_ Only if you have loads of cash for harassment lawsuits.
           \_ Maybe it's his home computers.
              \- ucb cs or eecs had a number of p0rn star named workstations.
                 i dont recall which research group. --psb
        Starship names from Star Trek
        Famous disasters
        TV Shows
        Just name them after the type of machine. Best way to do it since
        then you don't have stupid shit like "oh, is Styx supposed to be the
        Athlon XP box running BSD or the Sun Blade 1500"? If you have a large
        room of similar type of machines name them in an approximate grid-like
        fashion, i.e. "box-1-7".
                \_ hear hear!!!                 -tired sysadm
        \_ My ex-company used chemical elements.  They even tried to match
           element names or symbols with the engineers' names.  However, when
           the elemens ran out, they had to use particle names.  --- yuen
        \_ soda users
        \_ It is silly to call them "sun1-sun[x]". Some hardware is around
           so long that it changes forms many times. Soda itself is one
           example. Also, using a numeric scheme inevitably some of the
           numbers go away and you get weird shit like a room that has
           sun1, sun5, sun6, and sun20 in it. What if soda had been called
           "sequent1"?
        \_ Use the respective root passwords.
2004/5/28-29 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30467 Activity:high
5/27    In what ways are FreeBSD superior to a good Linux distro?
        \_ Why do you hate Windows?
           \_ Why do you hate Linus?
        \_ *BSD has a better IP stack.
           \_ In what way?
           \_ Aren't they the same now?
              \_ Yeah, because Linux copied Unix! --SCO
              \_ They are? When did Linux change it?
        \_ there's an actual CVS tree for the kernel?
          \_ setting up software raid in freebsd still sucks
             ass.
             \_ software raid sucks everywhere.  Real men use hardware.
                After the third time your linux kernel drops a drive on a
                whim, you'll learn.
             \_ there are nice tools for setting up software raid in
                linux.  freebsd uses this thing called "vi"
                actually when your machine fails, there's this thing
                called "ed"
                \_ Solaris LVM and Irix's lvm are way better.
                   \_ we're not comparing against Solaris and Irix.  Why does
                      this keep getting deleted?
                \_ Does anyone use Veritas Volume Manager for Linux?
                   I bet it works fine, since all the other Veritas products
                   I have used rocked. But it is not free.
             \_ To be fair, you can't compare vinum (freebsd sw raid) to
                linux sw raid; the featuresets aren't the same.  Vinum is
                more equivalent to EVMS (http://evms.sourceforge.net
        \_ *BSD has a highly organized and structured "way" of doing things.
           On every BSD box you always know where to look for config files,
           how to install/remove new software.  Things don't radically change
           or require reading through obscure and often outdated HOW-TO pseudo
           documents.  Linux is good if you're not the admin or you *need*
           the cutting edge.  If you just want your machines to work and never
           want to touch them again, get *BSD.  --linux admin by day
           \_ it seems like you're answering the wrong question. The question
              wasn't about *BSD vs * Linux. It was FreeBSD vs a [one] good
              Linux distro. And, BTW I use RH/Fedora/RHEL and I consider them
              fairly well structured too. I know where the config files or
              say init scripts are support to be. And I prefer their packages
              (when they exist) to the FreeBSD ports.
              \_ Really?  You prefer RH?  To *anything*?  RH is the garbage of
                 the *nix world.  I'd take just about any other *nix, free or
                 commercial over RH for almost anything.  Is that just because
                 you know RH best so you're just used to the pain like Windows
                 admins and users?
                 \_ I don't prefer RH for absolutely everything but it works
                    more than well enough for my type of environment (computer
                    labs, computing clusters, servers that support all that,
                    etc) and I definitely prefer it for this type of job than
                    say FreeBSD or Solaris. I have used Debian and I have
                    my reasons for not choosing either Debian or FreeBSD.
                    Besides, from my personal observations, the FreeBSD
                    afficionados who tend to dismiss RedHat as a piece of
                    crap usually don't know how to run a RedHat system
                    or say even use rpm properly and just keep repeating
                    the anti-Linux FUD they see on *BSD mailing lists or
                    newsgroups.
           \_ The organization goes beyond that, too.  The ports tree/packages
              are awesome.  Maintaining a BSD box is infinitely easier than,
              say, redhat.
              \_ Ports suck.  I like the idea in principle, but the
                 implementation of ports is by far the worst feature of
                 FreeBSD, in my opinion. -- ilyas
              \_ I disagree.  try upgrading openssl on FreeBSD.  you know,
                 getting /usr/lib/libssl.* upgraded, not just plopping down
                 new files in /usr/local/*.  Much easier on RedHate (as much
                 as I bitch and moan about it).  Just grab an RPM or even
                 an SRPM if you want to tweak things, and it goes in.  --Jon
                 \_ cd /usr/src/contrib/openssl
                    less INSTALL
                 \_ This is why the port is there.  So you don't have to
                    buildworld on every openssl bug report.
                    Not to mention when you get the new rpm (if there is
                    one), it always seems to break some other package because
                    some internal in openssl was changed.
              \_ redhat isn't great of a linux example, IMO.  pick a
                 distribution that isn't broken (gentoo, debian)
           \_ Every BSD box?  Really?  You think NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD all
              have the same way to install new software and place config
              files?
              \ Compared to say redhat versus gentoo versus suse?  you bet.
                \_ presumably, you're not running redhat, gentoo, and suse.
                   You should be comparing a distribution to a BSD branch.
              \_ On a linux box, applications dump all over the filesystem.
                 Changing network settings by creating files in /proc/* is
                 fucking idiotic, for example.  Documentation for linux is
                       \_ man sysctl
                          \_ that's not what the docs say to do.
                             \_ I believe that was already covered by the next
                                statement about "out of date".
                 out of date, if it exists at all.  I haven't used netbsd in a
                       \_ point taken
                 while but for open and free: (cd /usr/ports/foo/appname ; make
                 install) is pretty straight forward.  No rpm hell.  No
                       \_ rpms suck ass... rpms != linux
                       \_ emerge, apt-get
                          \_ What does apt have that assures you you're not
                             installing trojaned code?
                             \_ apt works with rpm
                             \_ signatures in rpms, debsigs
                 wondering if the binaries I'm downloading were corrupted.  BSD
                 just works.  You have some counter examples?
                 \_ how do you know that the source you're compling from
                    ports wasn't corrupted?
                    \_ The ports directory has MD5 checksums of the source
                       tarballs.  Unless your ports tree is corrupt, you'll
                       be warned if you download a corrupt source tarball.
                       \_ well OK then, how do you know that your MD5 checksums
                          of the source tarballs are accurate?
                          \_ You got them when you installed your OS.  If they
                             are fucked, bad ports are the least of your
                             worries.
                             \_ You have to re-get them when the ports MD5s
                                change, right?
2004/5/18-19 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:30272 Activity:high
5/18    I have an ATA raid (5), but linux insists on trying to detect each
        of the 4 drives individually upon startup, which takes a while since
        it isn't really successful.  How do i stop it from doing that?  Is
        that what the -nodma startup option is for?    thanks.
        \_ obGetRealOS.... ok... which distribution?
           \_ happens on both RedHat and Suse.  Am running SuSE 9.1
              \_ Is this during kernel bootup or during rc.d/* execution?
        \_ Are you doing hardware or software raid?  If hardware, which
           hardware?
           \_ By the way, has anyone successfully used vinum with +1TB
              filesystems on FreeBSD 5.2.1?  I have trouble newfsing
              big filesystems.
              \_ i had trouble with freebsd 5 correctly recognizing the disk
                 geometry of all the disks, so i switched to freebsd 4 and
                 it works.  i am unable to get it to successfully boot
                 off of a vinum / partition. - danh
              \_ I was jumping for joy when I finally got pf installed *and*
                 setup as the first program just after the NICs are initialized
                 but before the gateway is set.  Now you want >1TB partitions
                 too?  :-)  I'll share the pf 'secrets' if you need that.
                 \_ Um.  is this really all that hard?
                    \_ Yes.  Have you done it?  Were you already FreeBSD Guru
                       #1 before doing so?  This isn't enough:
                        (cd /usr/ports/security/pf && make install)
                       You need to build a new kernel with the right options,
                       change rc.conf, and rewrite the pf.sh.sample they
                       provide.  About 2/3rds of the changes are documented.
                 \_ Please do share.  I'm a linux guy who's currently playing
                    around with setting up a freebsd machine.
2004/5/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30263 Activity:very high
5/17    How many of you actually use BSD or Linux on your personal notebook or
        desktop computer? If so, what flavor? oh and plz say what "desktop
        environment" you use. actually it would be interesting for everyone
        to just reply and say what they use. i'm on WinXP.
        \_ FreeBSD-RELEASE on my laptop (Thinkpad X31) although to be fair
           I am ditching it for Debian, as it has serious problems with ACPI,
           and various IBM PCI bits and bobs.  XP for desktop at home, and
           FreeBSD-RELEASE for server and firewall.  On the laptop, I
           actually use KDM/Enlightenment (only wm with a deskspace manager
           I've seen that actually shows miniature versions of the windows
           you have on that desktop.)  -John
        \_ FreeBSD-STABLE
        \_ does OS X count?
           \_ sure. is that what you use or were you idly curious?
              \_ in that case, 10.3.3 (Panther): ........
                 \_ OS X rocks!
        \_ FreeBSD-4.9, twm
        \_ debian testing, icewm
        \_ debian/stable(woody), enlightenment: .
        \_ debian/oldstable(potato), enlightenment: .
        \_ FreeBSD-5.0, ctwm
        \_ Used to, (FreeBSD, WindowMaker) but then the power board died.
        \_ FreeBSD-4.9, kde
        \_ Win2k for desktop.  Any *nix for serving.  W2k makes a great DT
           environment.  *nix DT sucks rocks.  W* server environment sucks
           very big rocks.  *nix makes great server environment.  --unix admin
        \_ I use OS X, WinXP, Win2k, Win2k, Win98, all on different laptops.
           But i'm going to load Solaris x86 and Sun's Java Desktop System
           Linux, which I hear is suse, on another two old laptops, just
           to try them out.
           \_ why would you need that many different laptops for your normal
              use? Which one do you use the most? Or do you just sort of rotate
              them daily?
              \_ he doesn't.  he unemployed and bored.  he only needs one
                 dumb terminal at the library to do a job search.
           \_ JDS is a basically SuSE 8.1 w/ some extra Sun stuff like SO,
              Evolution, Mozilla (rebadged with Sun Logos), a recent JRE,
              some sun mgmt support and non-yast update tool. Its not really
              all that interesting (esp. if are using a laptop, JDS is pretty
              bad on laptops). - sun guy
              \_ hey, me too.  which department?
                 \_ OPG. I used to work for Cobalt.
        \_ Fedora Core 1, gnome (will load FC2 soon)
        \_ Win2k and (FreeBSD + ratpoison).  Ratpoison makes me happy. -- ilyas
        \_ WinXP and Debian (via VMWare) --darin
2004/5/9-10 [Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30119 Activity:moderate
5/9     Sometimes I need to upload large files on my 1500k/192k aDSL. This
        totally kills my Internet usability. Is there any uber cool BSD/Darwin
        tool that will let me throttle a particular socket? If I could just
        limit my FTP to something like 128k... tnx
        \_ rsync --bwlimit=KBPS ...
        \_ man ipfw
        \_ cstream: http://www.cons.org/cracauer/cstream.html
2004/5/7 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:30075 Activity:moderate
5/6     I'm running an old openbsd 3.2 system.  I see that 3.5 now uses
        ELF instead of a.out and they say source upgrade is not an option and
        binary is possible but "very difficult".  I'm lazy but need to upgrade
        for various reasons.  I use openbsd because I love 'pf'.  I hate the
        linux firewall tools.  I haven't tried the other bsd's in a long time.
        This is a headless server system so I don't care at all about the GUIs,
        hardware support, or other apps.  It's a firewall, mail, apache, dns,
        and ssh server.  Before I bite the bullet and rebuild an openbsd 3.5
        system (which I'm *very* familiar and comfortable with) is there any
        reason to switch to any other *nix out there?  What am I missing
        sitting in my little isolated openbsd world?  Thanks!
        \_ FreeBSD has pf.  join us!
           \_ The pf port is pretty good, but it is missing newer features
              like pfsync and carp.
           \_ Which version of FreeBsd would you suggest?  Does pf exist in the
              4.x series?  Should I wait for 5.3 or is 5.21 working ok enough
              for a home server?  Thanks again.  --op
                \_ 5.2.1 seems to be pretty stable. I'm running it on a
                   box at work that provides nfs, nis, smb, apache, mail
                   and ntp with pf acting as a host firewall.
        \_ Not much, if all you are using the box for is a router then stick
           with what you know.
        \_ I'm in a similar position. I have a OpenBSD 3.3 box that acts
           as a router/firewall. I'm planning to reinstall w/ OpenBSD 3.5
           because it has lots of security updates (privilege sep. named,
           OpenSSH 3.8.1, pro-police, &c.).
2004/5/4 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:29988 Activity:kinda low
5/4     FreeBSD5 question.  I see 4 ISOs in the FreeBSD5 distribution tree.
        What is the difference between "bootonly" "miniinst" and "disk1".
        The all appear to be bootable and take me into the install program?
        \_ Take a look at: http://tinyurl.com/3cnpm
           If you want to install from cd w/o d/l'ing anything at install
           time, just d/l and burn disk1.
2004/5/4 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:29987 Activity:high
5/4     Can someone with a FreeBSD 5.2.1 system try out a couple of ports I've
        put together? (I haven't played with the ports before, so I'd like to
        know if these work properly for other people). tia.
        nmh 1.1RC3:   link:tinyurl.com/34xgu (untar in /usr/ports/mail)
        connect 1.76: link:tinyurl.com/3xc5y (untar in /usr/ports/net)
        \_ Yes, I could but I'm not going to install stuff from an anonymous
           person on my machine.  It's one thing to post anon, it's quite
           another to run your code on my machine.
           \_ Mail me if you are concerned that there is something in the
              port files that might damage your system. --ranga
2004/5/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:18851 Activity:nil
5/1     OpenBSD 3.5 released: http://www.openbsd.org/35.html
2004/4/29 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:13447 Activity:insanely high
4/28  Is it safe to rlogin/ssh to a FreeBSD computer and do a "make
      installworld" to upgrade?  Or must this be done in single user
      mode with the computer off the net? I have a rackmount machine
      to upgrade.  I am trying to avoid putting console on it.
        \_ It's doable, but you should:
           1. double check that mergemaster will bring up sshd
           2. make sure your enet driver works and is installed correctly
           3. be on location for the reboot, just in case.
        \_ Do you have another machine with a free serial port? If so,
           I would enable serial console on the machine you want to
           upgrade, and then connect to it on serial console using
           minicom (or whatever) from the other machine. This way you
           can bring the system down to single user, do the upgrade and
           debug the result without a console.
2004/4/25-26 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:13371 Activity:nil
4/24    In terms of stability for FreeBSD, RELEASE > STABLE > CURRENT, right?
        \_ I'd say STABLE > RELEASE.  Stable includes all fixes for known
           exploits, etc.  And other than a few issues with upgrading between
           major revisions, I've never had trouble with -STABLE. --scotsman
           \_ Seconded, but don't follow stable too closely; give it a little
              time to make sure the fixes don't cause new problems.
2004/4/17-18 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:13247 Activity:nil
4/16    I use a 250GB WD disk with a single ext3 filesystem for making
        backups, and it had a directory that containted all my system
        snapshot backup directories.  Yesterday, I discovered that the
        directory has somehow turned into a text file containing the
        content of /etc/login.defs. Is there a way to fix this without
        removing all the hanging inodes, and thus removing all the backups?
        I've heard people complain about ext filesystems.  What reliable
        filesystems do you recommend for use on a linux non-root filesystem
        used for making backups?
        \_ Sigh... ext2: suck0rz.  ext3 = ext2 + pseudo journal = suck0rz with
           pseudo journaling.  I haven't used reiserfs enough to comment.  I
           have used xfs extensively on 2.2 and 2.4 boxes and in those
           environments, xfs = suck0rz.  I haven't ever used jfs or any of the
           less common linux file systems.  I've read the xfs on 2.6 has been
           greatly improved but that's what they said for xfs on 2.4 right
           before I lost 2 terabytes on 2.4 xfs.  Using some psychotic reverse
           logic, I'd recommend JFS or Reiserfs only because I haven't used
           them yet and thus haven't had data loss on those FSs.  ;-)
           As far as your repairs go, try this:
                1) dd the drive to another drive so you have a copy and then
                   do the following on that copy so you don't fuck up the only
                   copy you've got,
                2) try a simple forced fsck on the copy and see what happens.
                   a second forced fsck and a reboot is worth the extra 30
                   seconds of effort if the first doesn't work just because,
                3) if that doesn't work, there are a number of file recovery
                   utilities out there that *may* be able to recover some of
                   your back up files,
                3b) if this is company data, there are professional data
                    recovery firms that *will* recover most, if not all, of
                    your lost data in this situation but they will charge you
                    anywhere between $20,000 and $80,000 and will not guarantee
                    success to any degree before they start.
                4) good luck, I've been there, corrupt FSs suck.  It sounds
                   like you don't have a second backup or anything on tape.
                        --motd storage guru
                   \_ Thanks. I don't have a second backup, but that seems like
                      a good idea. What's the best way to get 250GB on tape?
                      perhaps I'll get another 250 GB disk and firewire
                      enclosure.
           \_ Your "VaporWare has no bugs" logic makes me suspicious of your
              "storage guru" status, but what specific problems are you aware
              of with ext3?  -Not a Linux Fan, but using it.
              \_ It should have been clear to anyone with basic English
                 reading comprehension skills exactly what I meant and why I
                 said that.  However, for you I shall explain: since all of
                 the linux FSs I've used extensively have severe problems,
                 the only alternative when seeking a viable FS is to try
                 something unknown.  It may have bugs.  It may not.  It should
                 have been clear from my own description of my own logic in
                 that regard that I wasn't vouching for FSs unknown to me in
                 extensive daily usage.  As far as ext3 is concerned, it has
                 the same corruption problems as ext2 since it is little more
                 than ext2 with pseudo journaling kludge on.  Once you get
                 over your core comprehension problem we can discuss my
                 qualifications vs. those of others on the motd for storage
                 guru status.  I know of at least one person here who works
                 for Veritas.  Other than that I'm unaware of and never seen
                 any exceptional knowledge from other motd posters.  If you
                 prefer I can simply stop answering storage questions since
                 my flawed logic has so clearly tainted my advise in your
                 eyes.  I don't care either way.  -- msg
                 \_ What is wrong with ext3 other than "I have experienced
                    crashes"?  Is it a performance problem with small files,
                    large files, filesystem corruption, metadata operation
                    problems, a problem with crash recovery due to async
                    operation, journaling strategy or implementation etc.
                    If you really were a file system guru, you would have
                    given feedback in these terms.
                    \_ Nonsense.  I'm not a paid consultant for the motd.
                       Back to reading comprehension and context.  Since the
                       op was concerned with FS corruption, what do *YOU*
                       think I was talking about?  --msg
                    \_ What filesystem do you recommend?
                       \_ It depends on the purprose obviously.
                          I wouldn't recommend GPFS for a desk top
                          but for a high performance set up, GPFS
                          has an interesting design.  Are you setting
                          up a mail spool?  db?  newsspool?  Home p0rn
                          and warez store?
                          \_ One for snapshot-backups, another for
                             all-purpose sever, mail, web etc.
                             \- for my decent sized data operations,
                                say ~1tb, i use freebsd. minor vinum
                                problems but in general very solid,
                                even in the face of yank-the-cord-out
                                type crashes. for my "large data" either
                                we dont really care too much about
                                performance or reliability [batch processing
                                on scratch data] or we use sort of exotic
                                stuff that probably doesnt apply in your case.
                                andrew hume is a "large data" consumer who
                                doesnt like linux and is someone i'd trust
                                on blind faith, although that was a while ago.
                                i dont know if he has changed his mind with
                                linux 2.6. i'm not totally clear what his
                                problems where. i've seen linux corrupt data
                                for unknown reasons, bad memory, bad ethernet
                                driver in addition to crashes. the only major
                                problem i had on freebsd had to do with the
                                whole box crashing ... which may have had
                                something to do with a raid card [it looked
                                like a hw prob, but it wouldnt manifest when
                                the same hardware was running linux, knoppix]
                                etc. and dont get me started on about linux
                                block/char dev, caching, dumping issues.--psb
                                \_ you consider 1tb to be decent sized?  uhm,
                                   yeah, whatever.  that's peanuts.
                 \_ Hear hear, ext2/3 is absolutely horrible in case of
                    catastrophic failure. It is exceedingly crash sensitive,
                    surprisingly even more so than UFS, which at least
                    attempts to appear crash resilient with it's fsck
                    hell. I just recently lost my umpteenth ext2/3 partition
                    last week on a new machine when an IRQ conflict
                    kept hanging the machine. -williamc
                 \_ Random question -- is it easy to get fbsd fs (any) to work
                    with linux?
                    \- why dont you install fbsd and run with linux application
                       compat options.
                       \_ Because fbsd is just a lot more difficult to use than
                          linux.  For instance, linux compat isn't, as you
                          well know.
                          \_ freebsd harder than linux?  holy shit, son!  where
                             did you get *that* idea from?  the free, online
                             freebsd handbook is clearly organised and has
                             updated to answers to all your major setup, config
                             and performance questions.  linux is a mishmash of
                             google searching and prayer.  --  old **nix admin
                             \_ Uh ... huh.  Like why ports doesn't work?
                 \_ What is your opinion/experience with reiserfs?
                 \_ I have used ext3 extensively with no issues. I have
                    about 6 TB of storage with file sizes of several GBs.
                    What exactly is the problem?
                    \_ that's what we call 'getting lucky' in the IT world.
                       i hope you're keeping really good backups.  of the
                       80 or so tb had on ext3, about 5tb spontaneously
                       corrupted with no advanced warning.  unrecoverable.
                       my company no longer uses linux for storage systems
                       after the zillion crash and data loss event.
                    \- on performance issues you can look at the freenix
                       paper by bryant forrester hawks. i dont know if there
                       is an update to the paper [pls post if you know] --psb
                       \_ What if performance isn't an issue?
                          \- then use AssOS with AssFS
                \_ ok another question, how easy is it to mirror
                   all partitions, including /, in freebsd with
                   software RAID ?
                   \- hmm, this is an interesting time to be asking.
                      if you are not invested in freebsd4 you might look
                      at GEOM. anyone using GEOM? also, in my experience
                      if you are not pretty familar with veritas, disk suite,
                      vinum etc you could be getting yourself into trouble
                      by booting off of it. after a machine has crashed is
                      not when you want to be reading man pages because
                      you used to do everything with GUIs etc. --psb
                      \_ heh, aint that the truth.  make sure you've got a
                         bootable recovery cd and keep it up to date.  this
                         applies to all boot disk raid systems.
        \_ summary of above: ask a performance question regarding your
           intended workload.  ask a reliability question based on your
           expected failure modes.  if your most likely failures are
           due to putting the system into random states w/ bad hardware,
           bad power, or bad kernel modules: you need off-line backups.
           we've been running a multi-TB filesystem on a dual processor
           dell xeon server w/ software RAID0 striping for over a year
           that gets completely beat on by local processes and NFS clients
           who use it as volatile scratch space, yet we've never had a
           problem.  it lives in the relatively controlled environment
           of a machine room.  i believe we're using ext3 w/ relatively
           stock redhat 9 software.
           \_ ext3 on redhat, hehe, you've got another copy of anything
              important, right?  it took about year before i started seeing
              problems, but maybe you wont see that since you're not keeping
              data there long term.
              \_ Some people have apparently had issues. At least two of
                 us on the motd have not. Your experience does not match mine.
                 Maybe your hardware sucks or there is some other variable.
2004/4/15-17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:13223 Activity:nil
4/15    OpenBSD ports/pkgs security issues are now available in vuxml.
        http://www.vuxml.org/openbsd/index.html
        (vuxml.org has a freebsd page as well)
2004/4/15-16 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:13219 Activity:high
4/15    How do people deal with long file names when burning CD?  Rockridge
        extension only allows upto 32 (31?) characters.
        \_ Rockridge supports up to 127 characters in UNIX.
        \_ tar (or use whichever archiver) first
        \_ can unix read PC and hybrid cd formats?
           \_ Depends on the UNIX. Linux can red Joliet if you compile it in.
              I'm sure *BSD has a backport. No go on Solaris.
        \_ I usually burn w/ joliet extensions turned on. This results in
           the shorter 8.3 file names on solaris boxes that can't read joliet,
           but the file names show up correctly on Linux, MacOS (9/X) and
           FreeBSD.
        \_ I usually burn with joliet (-J), rockridge (-R/-r), the
           translation table (-T), and long file names (-l).  Probably
           overkill, but no problems reading the names.
           \_ cool, but which program on Darwin/OSX does that?
                \_ hdiutil, toast and mkisofs can all do this (the
                   options specified look like they are for mkisofs)
                   To make a joliet/iso9660 hybrid using hdiutil:
                   $ hdiutil makehybrid -verbose -iso -joliet \
                             -default-volume-name [vol name] -o [iso file] \
                             [dir]
                   \_ mkisof is not available on Darwin.  hdiutil only
                      does iso level 2 so probably cannot do the job.
                   \_ mkisof is not available on Darwin.  Anyway hdiutil
                      to make an image before burning.  Unfortunately if
                      you want Rock Ridge extension, you have to use
                      something else to make the image first.  At least
                      for the version I have: 5.2
        \_ http://csua.org/u/6xb?arstechnica.com
                      probably does the job though I haven't checked.
                      What's nice about Toast is that it does not need
                      to make an image before burning, unfortunately unless
                      you want Rock Ridge extension, and it cannot be operated
                      from command line.  At least for the version I have: 5.2
2004/4/2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12994 Activity:nil
4/2     How can I get xbiff on my home freebsd machine to check my
        /var/mail/ on soda? Thanks.
2004/3/30 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:29888 Activity:high
3/29      I'm installing binaries for both OsX and Linux and I'd like all the
          users to have /usr/bin/<files> to be accessible. I thought about
          /usr/bin/<files> for generic stuff (like scripts) and
          /usr/bin/<platform>/<files> for platform specific things.
          What is the correct approach to this?
        \_ there are obviously several ways to do this, and "correct" is mostly
           relative. what you describe is probably the most typical way to
           do it though.
        \_ FreeBSD way: put all the base stuff in /usr/bin.  Platform supported
           stuff goes in /usr/local/bin (eg, ports and pkgs).  If you're not
           using the provided pkg management stuff, put it in /opt.
        \_ multiplatform support is a sysadm nightmare. Enjoy patching?
           Upgrading Perl/CPAN/emacs and all that crap? Now you've got
           2X the problem. There is only one correct way to deal with this.
           One OS, nothing else. The correct OS to use is FreeBSD.
           \- while the above post begs the question, i think there is
              a lot of be said for not worrying about having a shared
              dir for "sharable" codes. disk is cheep so i'd just ask soon
              a lot to be said for not worrying about having a shared
              dir for "sharable" codes. disk is cheap so i'd just ask to
              have disjoint os specific trees and not worry about duplication
              or keeping them in sync. --psb
        \_ Why would you want to do that?  Darwin and Linux do not have RW
           compatible drivers except for old fashioned HFS (no +).
2004/3/29-30 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:12920 Activity:high
3/29    I'm installing binaries for both OsX and Linux and I'd like all the
        users to have /usr/bin/<files> to be accessible. I thought about
        /usr/bin/<files> for generic stuff (like scripts) and
        /usr/bin/<platform>/<files> for platform specific things.
        What is the correct approach to this?
        \_ there are obviously several ways to do this, and "correct" is mostly
           relative. what you describe is probably the most typical way to
           do it though.
        \_ FreeBSD way: put all the base stuff in /usr/bin.  Platform supported
           stuff goes in /usr/local/bin (eg, ports and pkgs).  If you're not
           using the provided pkg management stuff, put it in /opt.
        \_ multiplatform support is a sysadm nightmare. Enjoy patching?
           Upgrading Perl/CPAN/emacs and all that crap? Now you've got
           2X the problem. There is only one correct way to deal with this.
           One OS, nothing else. The correct OS to use is FreeBSD.
           \- while the above post begs the question, i think there is
              a lot to be said for not worrying about having a shared
              dir for "sharable" codes. disk is cheap so i'd just ask to
              a lot of be said for not worrying about having a shared
              dir for "sharable" codes. disk is cheep so i'd just ask soon
              have disjoint os specific trees and not worry about duplication
              or keeping them in sync. --psb
        \_ Why would you want to do that?  Darwin and Linux do not have RW
           compatible drivers except for old fashioned HFS (no +).
2004/3/26-27 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12885 Activity:nil
3/26    FreeBSD question: all of a sudden (maybe the sysadmin did some kind
        of upgrade?) emacs gives me.
        /usr/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libXaw3d.so.7" not found
        but I see /usr/local/X11R6/lib/libXaw3d.so.7.  Any idea how to fix?
        Actually it is not just an emacs problem.  Lots of commands (like
        cvsup) fail with the same error!
        \_ Can't you ask that sysadmin?
           \_ reboot. seriously. --fleePSB
              \_ The correct answer was probably "run ldconfig as root"
              \_ THAT WORKED!
                  \_ I tried ldconfig and that did not fix the problem.
                     Although I didnt try logging in and out after that.
                     \- i'd do the reboot to restart running processes.--psb
              \_ A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning
                 the power off and on.  Knight, seeing what the student was
                 doing spoke sternly: "You can not fix a machine by just
                 power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going
                 wrong."  Knight turned the machine off and on.  The machine
                 worked.
2004/3/23-24 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12820 Activity:nil
3/23    SCO targeting LLNL and NERSC for using Linux:
        http://news.com.com/2100-7344_3-5176308.html
        NERSC is part of LBNL which is managed by the UC.  The UC holds
        copyright to BSD, so in a way, SCO is suing the Lab for using its own
        code...
        \_ BSD is going down!
2004/3/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12555 Activity:nil
3/7     I'm trying to pkg_add a package on my FreeBSD-4.7 system, but
        I get the following error:
        pkg_add: read_plist: bad command '@conflicts kdebase-3*'
        Searching the web, it seems like my pkg system might be old.
        If so, how do I upgrade them, otherwise what could this
        error message be? Thanks.
        \_ see the freebsd handbook online for instructions on using cvsup.
                \_ I already tried to install pkg_config and pkg_install
                   from ports with no success.
2004/3/7-8 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12551 Activity:nil
3/7     What, if any, is a good mail reader for FreeBSD with a graphical
        interface? Thanks.
        \_ thunderbird or mozilla mail?
           \_ second that.  Thunderbird is pretty decent.
2004/3/3-4 [Computer/SW/OS/Linux, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12501 Activity:nil
3/3     How do I find out the size per block on my Linux machine? For example
        even if I have a file size of 1, how big is it really taking? Thanks.
        \_ stat(1) should give you this information
           \- bsd has statfs() which returns f_bsize long in the statfs struct.
              i dont know what AssOS does but haybe they have this too. --psb
                \_ linux has statfs(2) as well. AssOS, must remember that,
                   I usually see it referred to as L1NSUX.
                   \_ boy those are both really clever.
2004/3/2 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12485 Activity:nil
3/2     Is there a list somewhere of google tools (like http://www.google.com/linux
        that pre-limit searches to specific topics?  I can't find it at
        http://labs.google.com.  -John
        \_ I recall seeing this at one point, but the list of topics was small
           (e.g. five subjects) and contained mostly nerd things, e.g. Linux,
           FreeBSD, OpenBSD.  The site: directive may be of some help.
2004/3/1 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12462 Activity:nil
2/29    \_ s/key on my OpenBSD 3.3 system produces the following output:
           sha1:   AURA ALOE HURL WING BERG WAIT
           rmd160: ONCE FRAY EROS JADE GINA ONE
           --ranga
           \_ thanks!
2004/2/23-24 [Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12362 Activity:nil
2/23    Anyone else having problems with firefox .8 on FreeBSD 4.x?
        It runs fine, but I get tons of weird warnings, errors,
        and assertions being spit out in the xterm that started
        firefox.
2004/2/16-17 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:12272 Activity:nil
2/16    This is sort of amusing:
        http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795  -John
2004/2/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12161 Activity:nil
2/8     I've been looking for an office-type proggie on FreeBSD for a while
        and started using OpenOffice.  It's a pain in the ass to compile
        (never got it to build nicely) but after I found a binary package,
        I have to say that it's pretty awesome.  Highly recommended.  -John
        \_ The one with the key logger built in?
        \_ Can it read MS Word documents? Can your files be read
           by MS Word on pc's?
           \_ more or less, yes, in both cases.  OpenOffice is OK, but it's
              not nearly as good an application as MS Office is, and has just
              as much bloat.  It might be able to keep you from using Windows,
              though.  -tom
              \_ In what ways is it "not nearly as good"?  I know it's not, but
                 specifics might be helpful.
                 \_ it can't display its own fonts on the screen properly.
                    The open/save dialog boxes are cumbersome.
                    It does stupid shit like allow you to save a file with
                    spaces in the name, then refuses to open that file from
                    the command line, even if you escape the spaces.  -tom
2004/2/8-9 [Computer/SW/OS/FreeBSD] UID:12157 Activity:nil
2/7     OpenBSD IPv6 DOS patch:
        3.3: ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/patches/3.3/common/016_ip6.patch
        3.4: ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/patches/3.4/common/011_ip6.patch
        \_ not really serious unless you're a public IPv6 host.
2017/10/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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