9/15    I bought a Nikon D80 + 18-135mm F3.5 lense. After browsing around,
        I have really deep regrets. Canon has way better lens than Nikon
        for less price. I find myself that 18mm is still too narrow, not
        realizing that DSLR is really 1.5X longer than traditional 35mm
        (e.g. 18mm DSLR is really 27mm SLR). The best wide angle lens
        Nikon has is 12-24mm F4 whereas Canon has 10-22mm F3.5, for a
        fraction of the cost, with BIGGER F-stops. WHAT THE FUCK??? Canon
        has IS stabilization for a long time, and Nikon recently has stocks
        of VR available, just recently. REALLY pissed about Nikon. Fuck!!!
        \_ Crop factor is not directly related to "D" SLR.  Some DSLRs have
           full film-sized sensors (1Ds, 5D, D3, D700, A900).
           \_ Yes but they're shit these days, and there will no longer be
              any full film-sized sensors in a few years anyways. They're
              going to be like 100x100mm format in the old days.
        \_ when writing of lenses, use a lower case f. F4 is a camera,
           f4 or f/4 is an aperture.  yes, nikon has kinda screwed people
           for a while, unless price is no object. if you didnt have have
           an investment in nikon lenses, "you choose ... poorly".
           an investment in nikon lenses, "you chose ... poorly".
           \- fucking pedantic prick. at any rate, canon is better for
              outdoors and sports shooting, hands down. vastly faster focus
              speed, quieter, way better light metering. thats why 70% of
              sports photographers today use canon, and only 20% Nikon.
              i used to have the nikon F series (film) and they were the
              best in those days, but today, nikon is like mercedes to
              canon is like lexus. nikon used to be the luxury car, but
              feature per feature, comfort per comfort, performance per
              performance, canon beats nikon hands down.
              \_ I bought a brand new Lexus and it's a piece of shit. Two
                 years old and already $10K in work on it, which was
                 luckily covered under warranty. I almost filed a lemon
                 law claim and might still. I think Lexus is riding on
                 reputation. I bought a Lexus instead of a BMW (like I did
                 before) because I wanted reliability. That's a crock. My
                 next car will be a BMW again. I've had my BMW 7+ years
                 and while it has not been problem free it didn't break
                 down with 1500 miles on it like the Toyota did.
                 \_ Did you get IS? IS has a very bad reputation. GS is
                    still very reliable. ES is like Camry.
           \_ Naw. Nikon has a superior CLS flash system. You can have a
              almost near quality studio with a bunch of SB-600s and a
              commander flash. Great if you plan to do a bunch of indoor
              photography. Canon is so so wrt to lighting systems. Canon
              has better lens selections and body performance, Nikon has
              better "integrated systems"
              \_ i own nikon and i like a lot about nikon. but for somebody
                 with modest goals [i.e. a prospective D80 buyer] and not
                 investment in nikon glass, i think canon would have been
                 a better choice. i still like nikon's feel, but it's an
                 expensive premium [and i bought a lot of my glass before
                 the digital era and the tiem when nikon started screwing
                 people more and delivering less]. --pp