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| 7/14 |
| 2007/5/15-17 [Reference/Military] UID:46648 Activity:moderate |
5/15 What's the difference between US Marines and US Army?
\_ http://csua.com/?entry=30559
\_ http://csua.com/?entry=34877
\_ US Marines: We are elite peacekeepers.
US Army: Suckers!!!
\_ Marines are a division of the Navy. You send in your
small Marines strike force to pacify the locals and make
a beachhead for your larger occupying force, US Army,
to take over eventually. Of course since all we do now
is fight guerilla wars (poorly) now all of this goes out
the window.
\_ So why isn't the US Army involved in Iraq? Everytime I
turn on the TV I see Marines getting injured.
\- it's very hard for me not to say something more
cutting but ...
us army has more deaths in iraq than all other
service branches put together. possibly about 2x
all other services combined. although marines
have been killed in higher proportion.
it's kinda of disturbing how many people like you
blithly believe things so far off the mark and
ostensibly can vote, opine about matters of
public policy etc. why dont you watch the NEWS HOUR
WITH LEHERER. at the end of every show they have an
"honor roll" they show a name/rank/picture/hometown/
service of people killed in iraq. this kind of ignorance
is why these kind of "gestures", or showing photographs
of the coffins coming back arent just PR stunts.
\- see also: http://icasualties.org/oif
[i dont remember if we talked about this before
but there is some interesting stuff when you look
at say the geographic distribution of deaths,
the racial composition of death in vietnam etc.
sometimes reenforces what you think, other times
not what you expect.]
\_ Now you have a little more insight into why we are totally
screwed in Iraq. Marines are trained to attack quickly,
secure the area, then get the hell out. We're using
Marine units long term in areas where no one knows the
difference between friend and foe, if there is a difference.
We should have highly trained units familiar with the
last 50 years of pain in the area, plus Arabic. We also
need magical fucking fairy dust. We're asking our young
Marines to... I dunno. Pacify the area? Shoot everyone?
Keep it safe? Every time they kick ass, the left
screams bloody murder, and the right screams look they
are fighting terrorists, when they're completely full of shit.
Marines need a set goal, like 'take that building' or
'shoot that bad guy', they are not miracle workers who can
bring democracy to Iraq. I read the paper and I see
men and women from the Air Force, Army, Marines, Navy
and national guard in the death rolls. Must suck to be
in the Navy and you're sent to land to guard cargo
and you get shot.
\_ The big lie of our all-volunteer force is that there
is any circumstance under which being in the military
doesn't "suck." Americans don't like the concept of
national service, so we've sold our military as a
"career choice" like any other. But it's not. You
may die, you more than likely may be maimed beyond
comprehension, you may be psychologically scarred for
life, and you will likely be ordered to do things that
are against your moral code or your better judgement.
That's war. The glamor that surrounds the military is a
big load of crap, and I speak as someone who is a general
supporter of the military (although not what our current
administration has chosen to do with it in Iraq). It
really is a shame what is happening to our boys (and girls)
out there, but remember that they chose to put themselves
there.
\_ See
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200706/mockenhaupt-army
While the article focuses on turning the Y-generation
into soldiers, the point I take away is that some have
the physical and mental stamina to be warriors, and some
don't. We want those who are willing and able, to fight
for us. There still is and will always be great honor in
defending America, and those who feel the truth of that
will step up to the plate. When the stain on our
national honor known as the Bush Administration is gone,
the faith in our civilian leadership to use the military
effectively and with integrity will be restored, and the
those who have been staying away because of the
stupidity of this admin will volunteer. Standards will
rise again and we will have the best military in the
world once again, with an all volunteer force that is
willing and able to fight for our freedom
\_ Ah, but what about when the next gang of idiots
takes over? c.f. the current crop of candidates.
\_ We seem to bungle a war every 20-30 years, so look
for the next SNAFU around 2030.
\_ I agree military service sucks. I stil don't think our
Marines or Army are able to fight a guerilla war. What do
you think? Your 'sucking' point does not deal with anything
I wrote above. I know it's going to suck. They know it's
going to suck. I want my military in situations where there
is a definite goal or as they say "VICTORY OVER TERRORISTS
IN IRAQ". I don't see it.
\_ Marines aren't a division of Navy. They are two separate
branches of the military. And there are plenty of army units
in Iraq.
\_ The United States Marine Corps is part of the Department
of the Navy. Don't take my word for it:
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/organization/org-over.asp
--alawrenc
\_ Hence "Marine" (also see: "dict usmc")
\_ I thought after Vietnam War, C.Powell and others transformed US
military to a "FIGHTING" force (instead of an "occupying" force).
The reality is that US commander-in-chief think we can fight
cheaply (~50 billion USD) and quickly. The bigger question is,
1. should we try our Commander-in-chief for treason? 2. after
6 years of blank check, should we just cut our losses and get the
hell out and spend next 30 years trying to repaire our reputation
abroad? or 3. should we continue this shit, without input from
Iraq's neighbors, and continue pour resources in it?
\_ From what I remember a friend whose dad and brother were in the
Navy told me, the original job of the Marines was to secure beaches.
To do so, they would usually get transported by the Navy (a joke was
that MARINE stands for My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment). Once a beach
head was secured, the Army would then take over. It doesn't seem
like this is the case anymore.
\_ I still think we should let the Iraqis put to vote on whether
the foreign troups should stay or go. If they genuinely want us
to leave, they can vote us out, and we go and declare a victory for
democracy. |
| 7/14 |
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| csua.com/?entry=30559 What's the difference between the army, marine, ranger, green beret, and all these other units? Another way of looking at it: \_ Marines are quite distinct from Navy. Army: You learn to hide behind bushes Navy: You learn sensors, guidance systems, electronics, reactors Air: You learn missiles, radar, planes/jets Marines: You learn to kill people Rangers/Green Berets/Seals/etc: You learn to kill people well \_ ok, so what's the difference between the rangers, berets, the seals? What do they specialize and what/who determines which unit is used? Rangers and Green Berets (I think) specilize inair drops. Rangers can go on to become Green Berets and Delta Force. They all specialize in tight, quick operations, and killing a whole lot of people. There's also Army's Delta Force, which does counterterrorism ops. They obviously do lots of other stuff as well and are better trained and have higher standards than regular infantry but they're generally younger than the special forces guys in the GB and most SEALs, thus less experienced. I still wouldn't want to fight a regular army infantry in an alley because they'll kill you just a dead, they'll just do it louder and you might see it coming. Someone mentioned Delta Force which is an anti-terrorist hit squad trained to do things like kill all the terrorists that took over a plane without killing any hostages. Rangers, elite fighting force, but not considered as elite as green beret's. Seals, the elite amphibious fighting force of the navy - may be the best conditioned of all (carrying logs in sand, lots of swimming, etc). Marines, they pave the way for the army - tough hombres. They also have lots of bin software from 3rd party peepz that is mostly unchecked for sec. Green Berets: Generic Army special forces term Rangers: Long range recon/patrol and air drops. Marines: Initially used for sea/harbor/base ops (capture/security). SEALS: Special ops (Intel/Covert/Small ops), specialization in sea based ops. Pararescuemen: Land recovery and rescue experts Combat Controllers: Coordinate air ops for Rangers/Marines. Coast Guard: Specialization in brown water operations (part of the Dept. Swimmers: Sea rescue experts \_ Accountants: give Afghan soldiers $100 bills to clear caves. Grunts in the Marines will not be Ivy League educated investment bankers. As long as they don't give into institutionalizing torture on advice from the CIA, I'm ok with them. com/s/ap/20070422/ap_on_re_us/blue_angel_crash Glad that it didn't crash in SF. What's the point of maintaining an expensive team and performing these stunts in populated areas endangering people on the ground? I agree that only 1 group of psychos who can't control themselves should not be allowed to own guns .. I think that's why some bicyclist on here are for gun control because they are psychos in themselves and can't control ... |
| csua.com/?entry=34877 Why are there so many Marines inside Iraq, fighting non-water related battles? Their physical standards are held to a higher standard and their boot camps is longer than the typical Army GI. BTW, D-Day had more Army units doing amphibious assaults. People who get paid to run up beaches at machine guns vs. people who get paid to jump out of planes on top of machine guns. I mean, what's the difference between them, and where is it actually written out and defined? Every force except for the marines has their own ground troops: the Marines are supposed to be the Navy's ground troops, but don't tell a squid that. I don't think the Air Force has too many ships, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that the Army does. One can view the name as largely historical and the fact that they remain a separate branch as a testament to their effectiveness and perhaps more importantly the PR and political skills of their leadership over the years. The classical amphibious assault itself is arguably an obsolete tactic - the last significant US amphibious assault I can think of is McArthur's landing in Inchon in late 1950, during the Korean War. In addition, the Marines are generally less specialized than the more elite Army units such as Airborne and the Rangers - unlike the Army, they have their own fixed-wing ground-support aircraft, their own UAVs, their own armour (including M1 tanks) and can more easily execute a "combined arms" operation (up to a certain scale, of course) on their own. This makes them an attractive option for military planners in difficult but constrained engagements such as in Fallujah. This of course, has its price - Marines are often disporpotionately represented in the casualty figures when serious fighting takes place. They guarded ships and watched prisoners, so the whole ship-to-ship thing kind of naturally evolved. And instead of having to carry a bunch of seasick army guys around to go beat up on some S Pacific natives, it was easier to just have your on-board security detail do it. because warships were also the first on the scene in faraway places, marines were usually the guys you had guard colonists and embassies, just because they were easiest and quickest to get there; that's also the reason why they're the most mobile bunch, and it's historically why you'll be more likely to find them blowing up stuff in faraway places than the regular army. Their 17th century Royal Navy name - "Maritime Regiment of Foot" pretty much tells the story as does the "Gibraltar" on Royal Marines insignia, a reference to a 1704 battle where their role was neither primarily that of ship-to-ship combat nor protective detail. And while at it, one might decimate all instances of such wildly inappropriate naming! Sure, Airborne jumps from planes but when's the last time there was a significant airborne operation? Rename the 10th Mountain, all units designated "cavalry" and british fusiliers, grenadiers, etc. Wait, and the word "decimate" doesn't really mean "reduce to a 10th of" so excise that from dictionaries as well. And stop calling computers and other equipment "digital" since it has nothing to do with fingers nowadays. html Return to Sea Flags home page Flags on Army Watercraft Vessel flags used by the Army are authorized by AR 840-10, the Army regul ation on flags. They are in the colors of the branch operating the vess el and have the branch insignia on the center. Vessel flags are authori zed in six by ei ght foot, four by six foot, and two by three foot sizes. In addition, ce rtain Department of the Army officials and general offi cers are authori zed to fly boat flags in Army watercraft. For general o fficers, these f lags are scarlet, three by four feet, with the appropria te number of wh ite stars indicating the officer's rank centered in a hor izontal line. The Army Transportation corps operates a fleet of some 90 name d oceango ing ships and other watercraft. These are primarily landing cr aft and v essels associated with logistics-over-the-shore operations. Th ey displa y the national ensign and union jack in the same manner as the Navy, exc ept that the ensign is always flown when under way between sunr ise and sunset. In addition, the Transportation Corps flag is flown fro m sunris e to sunset on the forwardmost mast, or on the outboard halyard of the p ort yardarm if there is a single mast. Shipboard courtesies and customs, including the use of flags, are laid down for Army vessels in Field Man ual 55-501, Marine Crewman's Handbook. The Army follows somewh at differ ent practices from those used by the sea services in naming and commissi oning its vessels. A vessel is formally named when it is actua lly deliv ered to the unit rather than at its launching. The larger craf t are off icially commissioned (rather than simply being placed in servic e) in a ceremony that begins with the crew in formation on the pier alon gside t he vessel. The officer conducting the commissioning addresses th e prosp ective master of the ship with the words "I hereby deliver the U S Army vessel ---------." The new master replies, "I hereby assume com mand of the US Army vessel ---------," then marches aboard accompanied by the co mpany guidon bearer, takes his place on the quarterdeck, and o rders the national ensign, union jack, and any other flags or pennants t o be hoi sted simultaneously. The rest of the crew then files aboard and mans the rail. The Army flag regulation, AR 840-10, provides for a Signal Cor ps vessel flag, which, under AR 56-9, should be flown according to the s a me rules used by the Transportation Corps. However, with the retiremen t of the last Army cable-laying ships, it is not clear whether this flag is still used in practice. In addition to their military duties, US Army engineers have been responsible since the early days of the Republic fo r a wide range of what are now termed "civil works" functions, including maintenance of navigable waterways and flood control. Accordingly, the Army Corps of Engineers operates a substantial number of dredges and oth er working ves sels at US ports and along inland and coastal waterways. Army engineers have used distinguishing flags since at least 1862, and s c arlet flags with castles since 1866. The flag shown was in use as a ve s sel flag by 1917, if not before. The "castle flag" is used only for th e civil works, research, and construction management functions of the Co r ps, not by such units as engineer battalions, and it is never flown at A rmy posts. Because the castle flag is used only in association with t he civil works functions of the Corps, its use afloat is governed by Eng in eer Regulation 840-1-1, rather than AR 56-9 as in the case of the Tra nsp ortation and Signal Corps. Nevertheless, the usage is virtually the sam e The castle flag is displayed from 8:00 am to sunset aboard vessels belonging to the Corps that are in commission and manned. The point of hoist depends on the configuration of the craft--generally it is placed either on the halyard of the port yardarm on vessels equipped with sing le masts, on the foremast of those with two masts, or on the bow staff f or those without masts. The national ensign is flown from the gaff or t he stern flagstaff according to the same practice followed by the Navy. In addition to the castle flag, division and district engi neers may au thorize the flying of a pennant to denote their presence ab oard a vesse l These pennants measure 29 by 45 inches and may be displa ced by the b oat flag of a general officer of the Army if one is aboard. The division engineer pennant is red, white and blue with the castle o n the center in red. Return to top of page Army Personal Boat Flags The US Army first introduced personal flags for civilian officials and general officers p rimarily so they would have appropriate flags to displ ay in the bows of boats when visiting units of the Navy. These flags ha ve since evolved into the embroidered, fringed flags carried on parade o r displayed in o ffices, but they are still flown at sea on occasions whe n senior offici als or general officers visit vessels of the Army. The Vice Chief of Sta f... |
| icasualties.org/oif -> icasualties.org/oif/ Wounded In Action According to The DoD Period Wounded Jun-2005 51 May-2005 551 Apr-2005 590 Mar-2005 362 Feb-2005 408 Jan-2005 496 Dec-2004 540 Nov-2004 1426 Oct-2004 648 Sep-2004 706 Aug-2004 895 Jul-2004 552 Jun-2004 589 May-2004 757 Apr-2004 1215 Mar-2004 323 Feb-2004 150 Jan-2004 188 Dec-2003 261 Nov-2003 337 Oct-2003 413 Sep-2003 247 Aug-2003 181 Jul-2003 226 Jun-2003 147 May-2003 54 Apr-2003 340 Mar-2003 202 Total 12855 Last update from the DoD: 10-Jun-05 Notes: Latest Military Fatality Date: Jun 13, 2005 Total Fatalities since May 1, 2003: 1638 March 20th through May 1st: 139 Hostile US Fatalities Since May 1, 2003: 1204 Hostile Fatalities Since May 1, 2003: 1313 US deaths since July 2, 2003: 1496 (Pres. A suicide car bomb detonated on Monday near a US military convoy in B aghdad's western district of Yarmouk, causing casualties among the US so ldiers and wounding four Iraqi civilians, witnesses said. The Iraqi Army has said that four Iraqi soldiers were killed in clash es with gunmen near Tilul al-Baj area in Ninawa Governorate, in northern Iraq, last night. A military source in Mosul area said that four gunmen were also killed. Insurgents attacked an Iraqi police checkpoint on the main road betwe en Baghdad and the town of Baquba on Monday, killing four policemen and injuring 10, police said. An Iraqi army patrol shot and killed an Iraqi man in Fallujah, the to wn's hospital reported. Gunmen killed a female Interior Ministry employe e in Baghdad's Sadr City district, police said. Police found the body of an unidentified man in Sadr City. A US embassy spokesman said a diplomat, whom he declined to identif y, was in the area but was unaffected. He said the attack appeared to be unrelated to the official's movements, but declined to give further det ails. Another soldie r was killed in Samarra when a bomb exploded in the path of his vehicle. Two Iraqi police commandos and two soldiers were killed in fighting in Samarra. Also on Monday a member of Iraq's infrastructure protection force was shot dead near the northern oil refinery town of Baiji, and an Iraqi bu sinessman was gunned down as he left a US base at the airport in Dhuluiy ah. Lance Corporal Andrew Kilpela was killed Friday in a roadside explosi on. His family learned of the death that night, but it hasn't been forma lly announced by the Defense Department. A Kurdish woman human rights activist, Shiman Ahmad Kader, has been k idnapped by armed men in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk, an official from the Kurdistan Democratic Party said Monday. Since last June 13 -- when 825 members of the US military had died in Iraq -- the insurgency that took shape with the fall of Saddam Hussei n has increased its toll on American forces and Iraqi soldiers and civil ians alike. In Baghdad, a suicide bomber detonated his vehicle near a US military patrol. Witnesses said a US army Humvee was on fire after the blast and said a US helicopter arrived to evacuate the wounded. An Interior Ministry spokesman and police had said earlier that a US . military convoy had been attacked by a suicide car bomber in the west of Baghdad at around 2 pm (1000 GMT) and that two civilians nearby had been killed and five wounded. Two Soldiers assigned to the 155th Brigade Combat Team, II Marine Exp editionary Force (Forward), were killed June 11 when an IED detonated ne ar their vehicle. The incident took place during combat operations about 12 miles southeast of Al Amiriyah. Two Soldiers assigned to the 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditio nary Force (Forward), were killed June 11 when their vehicle struck an I ED. The incident took place during combat operations about 18 miles sout hwest of Taqaddum. Six more bodies have been found in Baghdad, most of them tortured bef ore being executed, police said on Monday, bringing to 26 the grim tally of murdered cadavers found in recent days. A mortar attack injured eight from Georgia Army National Guard's 48th Brigade Sunday morning at a forward operating base near the city of Mah mudiyah, brigade officials said. In other violence, a mortar barrage intended for an Iraqi army barrac k in the northern Iraqi town of Tal Afar missed its target and slammed i nto a house, killing a 6-year-old child and wounding five other people, police Capt. Insurgents fired mortar rounds at a funeral for the mother of one of Iraq's most senior police generals on Sunday, killing two people, and th e Shiite-led government pressed the need to open talks with insurgent gr oups. There is no centralized procedure for monitoring scores of contractin g firms rebuilding Iraq with US funds, according to the military. The controls that do exist have been criticized for failing to keep track of millions. Two years ago, when the pumps ran dry at Iraq's petrol filling statio ns, angry motorists muttered that Americans were stealing the fuel to dr ive their tanks... Iraqis inspecting the damage of US air strikes in western Iraq on S unday challenged American assertions that the raids had killed 40 insurg ents, saying there were no guerrillas in the area. Two soldiers were killed Saturday when a bomb exploded near their veh icle outside Amiriyah, some 25 miles west of Baghdad. Two other soldiers also died Saturday when their vehicle struck a bomb near Taqaddum, 45 m iles west of Baghdad. RSS Feed Current Time in Baghdad: 7:04:57 AM Please Help Keep This Site Running. Recent articles about this site have brought many new readers and with th e higher readership comes higher cost. If you have not contributed to th is site please consider making a donation. |
| www.theatlantic.com/doc/200706/mockenhaupt-army -> www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200706/mockenhaupt-army To fight today's wars with an all-volunteer force, the US Army needs more quick-thinking, strong, highly disciplined soldiers. But creating warriors out of the softest, least-willing populace in generations has required sweeping changes in basic training. Interviews: "The New Recruit" Brian Mockenhaupt talks about the men and women who enter basic training today, and how the Army has adapted to meet their needs. The rest of this article is viewable only by Atlantic subscribers. In addition to receiving a full year (ten issues) of the print magazine at a rate far below the newsstand price, you will be granted instant access to everything The Atlantic Online has to offer--including this article! |
| www.navy.mil/navydata/organization/org-over.asp BRAC 2005 Navy Organization - a look at the organization of the Navy An Overview The following chart presents an overview of the organization of the Department of the Navy. The US Navy was founded on 13 October 1775, and the Department of the Navy was established on 30 April 1798. The Department of the Navy has three principal components: The Navy Department, consisting of executive offices mostly in Washington, DC; the operating forces, including the Marine Corps, the reserve components, and, in time of war, the US Coast Guard (in peace, a component of the Department of Homeland Security); |