Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 34877
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2024/11/26 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/26   

2004/11/13-14 [Reference/Military] UID:34877 Activity:very high
11/13   I thought the purpose of the Marines is to get on the boat and
        land on the coast to secure a place for barge, equipments and
        for more reinforcements, like exactly what they did in D-Day.
        Why are there so many Marines inside Iraq, fighting non-water
        related battles?
        \_ marines do the initial battle to clear up for the
           army to maintain and hold ground.
        \_ Marines are the toughest of the regular services. Their
           physical standards are held to a higher standard and their
           boot camps is longer than the typical Army GI. BTW, D-Day
           had more Army units doing amphibious assaults.
                \_ That still doesn't answer the question, though. !op
                   \_ if you need it spelled out... marines > army
                      \_ Except for the airborne. -ausman
                         \_ Ah.  People who get paid to run up beaches at
                            machine guns vs. people who get paid to jump out
                            of planes on top of machine guns.  Great.  -John
           \_ marine(adj)-- 1 a : of or relating to the sea <marine life>
              b : of or relating to the navigation of the sea : NAUTICAL
              <a marine chart> c : of or relating to the commerce of the
              sea : MARITIME <marine law> d : depicting the sea,
              seashore, or ships <a marine painter>
        \_ On perhaps a related note, does each branch of the military
           (navy, army, airforce, etc) have a documented responsibilities?
           I mean, what's the difference between them, and where is it
           actually written out and defined?
           \_ Yes you guessed it, they have turf wars all the time. -- ilyas
           \_ The Marine Corp and Navy have their own air forces as
              does the Army to a lesser degree. Every force except
              for the marines has their own ground troops: the Marines
              are supposed to be the Navy's ground troops, but don't
              tell a squid that. I don't think the Air Force has too
              many ships, but I wouldn't be surprised to discover that
              the Army does. -ausman
              \_ Army's only ships are contract prepositioning ships.
                 \_ Not quite -- http://tinyurl.com/3zzo7 .  You can see
                    an ACoE ship in SF Bay sometimes.  -John
        \_ As someone pointed out above, the Marines are simply better
           and more comprehensively trained and better equipped for
           rapid deployment than most Army units. One can view the name
           as largely historical and the fact that they remain a separate
           branch as a testament to their effectiveness and perhaps
           more importantly the PR and political skills of their leadership
           over the years. The classical amphibious assault itself is
           arguably an obsolete tactic - the last significant US amphibious
           assault I can think of is McArthur's landing in Inchon in
           late 1950, during the Korean War. In addition, the Marines
           are generally less specialized than the more elite Army units
           such as Airborne and the Rangers - unlike the Army, they have
           their own fixed-wing ground-support aircraft, their own UAVs,
           their own armour (including M1 tanks) and can more easily execute
           a "combined arms" operation (up to a certain scale, of course)
           on their own. This makes them an attractive option for military
           planners in difficult but constrained engagements such as in
           Fallujah. This of course, has its price - Marines are often
           disporpotionately represented in the casualty figures when
           serious fighting takes place. -pvg
        \_ As I recall, the Marines were originally for boat-to-boat
           combat.  I could be wrong though.
           \_ They were just a warship's military contingent.  They guarded
              ships and watched prisoners, so the whole ship-to-ship thing
              kind of naturally evolved.  And instead of having to carry
              a bunch of seasick army guys around to go beat up on some S.
              Pacific natives, it was easier to just have your on-board
              security detail do it.  That's where the beach invasion force
              bit comes from; because warships were also the first on the
              scene in faraway places, marines were usually the guys you
              had guard colonists and embassies, just because they were
              easiest and quickest to get there; that's also the reason why
              they're the most mobile bunch, and it's historically why you'll
              be more likely to find them blowing up stuff in faraway places
              than the regular army.  -John
              \_ To get mildly pedantic, historically, marines were not
                 so much a security unit but  what the name
                 implies - a ship-borne group of soldiers. Their 17th
                 century Royal Navy name - "Maritime Regiment of Foot"
                 pretty much tells the story as does the "Gibraltar"
                 on Royal Marines insignia, a reference to a 1704 battle
                 where their role was neither primarily that of ship-to-ship
                 combat nor protective detail. -pvg
                 \_ "security" includes preventing guys with swords from
                    climbing on your boat :-)  -John
        \_ so based on the above they should change the name Marines -/
           since it has nothing to do with water nowadays
           \_ Absolutely! And while at it, one might decimate all instances
              of such wildly inappropriate naming! Sure, Airborne jumps from
              planes but when's the last time there was a significant airborne
              operation? Rename the 10th Mountain, all units designated
              "cavalry" and british fusiliers, grenadiers, etc. Wait, and
              the word "decimate" doesn't really mean "reduce to a 10th of"
              so excise that from dictionaries as well. And stop calling
              computers and other equipment "digital" since it has nothing
              to do with fingers nowadays. -pvg
              the
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11/26   

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Cache (5112 bytes)
tinyurl.com/3zzo7 -> home.earthlink.net/~mcmillanj/other/army.html
Return to Sea Flags home page Flags on Army Watercraft Vessel flags used by the Army are authorized by AR 840-10, the Army regul ation on flags. They are in the colors of the branch operating the vess el and have the branch insignia on the center. Vessel flags are authori zed in six by eight foot, four by six foot, and two by three foot sizes. In addition, certain Department of the Army officials and general offi cers are authorized to fly boat flags in Army watercraft. For general o fficers, these flags are scarlet, three by four feet, with the appropria te number of white stars indicating the officer's rank centered in a hor izontal line. The Army Transportation corps operates a fleet of some 90 name d oceangoing ships and other watercraft. These are primarily landing cr aft and vessels associated with logistics-over-the-shore operations. Th ey display the national ensign and union jack in the same manner as the Navy, except that the ensign is always flown when under way between sunr ise and sunset. In addition, the Transportation Corps flag is flown fro m sunrise to sunset on the forwardmost mast, or on the outboard halyard of the port yardarm if there is a single mast. Shipboard courtesies and customs, including the use of flags, are laid down for Army vessels in Field Manual 55-501, Marine Crewman's Handbook. The Army follows somewh at different practices from those used by the sea services in naming and commissioning its vessels. A vessel is formally named when it is actua lly delivered to the unit rather than at its launching. The larger craf t are officially commissioned (rather than simply being placed in servic e) in a ceremony that begins with the crew in formation on the pier alon gside the vessel. The officer conducting the commissioning addresses th e prospective master of the ship with the words "I hereby deliver the U S Army vessel ---------." The new master replies, "I hereby assume com mand of the US Army vessel ---------," then marches aboard accompanied by the company guidon bearer, takes his place on the quarterdeck, and o rders the national ensign, union jack, and any other flags or pennants t o be hoisted simultaneously. The rest of the crew then files aboard and mans the rail. The Army flag regulation, AR 840-10, provides for a Signal Cor ps vessel flag, which, under AR 56-9, should be flown according to the s ame rules used by the Transportation Corps. However, with the retiremen t of the last Army cable-laying ships, it is not clear whether this flag is still used in practice. In addition to their military duties, US Army engineers have been responsible since the early days of the Republic for a wide range of what are now termed "civil works" functions, including maintenance of navigable waterways and flood control. Accordingly, the Army Corps of Engineers operates a substantial number of dredges and other working ves sels at US ports and along inland and coastal waterways. Army engineers have used distinguishing flags since at least 1862, and sc arlet flags with castles since 1866. The flag shown was in use as a ves sel flag by 1917, if not before. The "castle flag" is used only for the civil works, research, and construction management functions of the Cor ps, not by such units as engineer battalions, and it is never flown at A rmy posts. Because the castle flag is used only in association with the civil works functions of the Corps, its use afloat is governed by Engin eer Regulation 840-1-1, rather than AR 56-9 as in the case of the Transp ortation and Signal Corps. Nevertheless, the usage is virtually the sam e The castle flag is displayed from 8:00 am to sunset aboard vessels belonging to the Corps that are in commission and manned. The point of hoist depends on the configuration of the craft--generally it is placed either on the halyard of the port yardarm on vessels equipped with sing le masts, on the foremast of those with two masts, or on the bow staff f or those without masts. The national ensign is flown from the gaff or t he stern flagstaff according to the same practice followed by the Navy. In addition to the castle flag, division and district engi neers may authorize the flying of a pennant to denote their presence ab oard a vessel. These pennants measure 29 by 45 inches and may be displa ced by the boat flag of a general officer of the Army if one is aboard. The division engineer pennant is red, white and blue with the castle o n the center in red. Return to top of page Army Personal Boat Flags The US Army first introduced personal flags for civilian officials and general officers primarily so they would have appropriate flags to displ ay in the bows of boats when visiting units of the Navy. These flags ha ve since evolved into the embroidered, fringed flags carried on parade o r displayed in offices, but they are still flown at sea on occasions whe n senior officials or general officers visit vessels of the Army. The Vice Chief of Staff flies a similar flag, but with the fiel d divided by two crossing diagonal lines, red in the hoist and fly and w hite at the top and bottom.