Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:13 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2006/2/13 [Recreation/Humor] UID:41812 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
2006/2/13-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41813 Activity:nil
        This is the problem with going to war with allies and coalitions.
        No imagination.  There's bad apples in every army, but at least ours
        had the imagination to do panty-heads and human pyramids.  The Brits
        are giving all rogue soldiers a bad name.
        \_ "A DIY grenade lands and explodes inside the compoundblasting out
        \_ "A DIY grenade lands and explodes inside the compound - blasting out
           shrapnel and a cloud of grey-white smoke."  Yeah, they are just
           kids, yeah.
           \_ If you think that your example somehow justifies the abuse,
              please do us all a favor and go hunting with Dick Cheney.
              \_ I'm only suggesting something that counters what the article
                 said about those people being just kids.
                 \_ Well, given the source (News of the World), I'd say you're
                    rarely going to go wrong accusing them of sensationalizing
                    a story.
2006/2/13-15 [Science/Electric, Reference/Military] UID:41814 Activity:nil
2/13    How long until they build them 80 feet tall, with laser guns and
        a hot green-haired chick pilot with huge eyes?  -John
        \_ Same company's working on that, too:
           \_ Can't wait for their partnership with <DEAD>!<DEAD>
           \_ Well, that wins the creepy award.
2006/2/13-15 [Uncategorized] UID:41815 Activity:nil
2/13    Dick Cheney shoots wrong man in hunting "accident"
        \_ Old news, see below re pres is under arrest.
        \_ rather than dick cheney shooting the right man.
        \_ "We're off to hunt peasants"
           "You mean *pheasants*?"
           "Um, yeah"
        \_ On the positive side, at least someone in the White House has
           some combat experience now.
           \_ Figures that it would be a friendly fire incident.
2006/2/13-15 [Computer/SW/Apps] UID:41816 Activity:nil
2/13    Adobe is looking for external study participants.  If you are using
        Photoshop elements with minimal Photoshop experience (and are using
        a PC) and don't work in a creative field, please contact me via
        Email.  -chaos
2006/2/13-15 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:41817 Activity:high
2/13    "Marriage Brings Wealth, Divorce Steals It"
        It's more than about combining assets in a marriage and splitting the
        assets in a divorce.
        \_ What ever happened to BDG?
        \_ This matches my experiance.  Division of labor is also a big
           win in my house.
        \_ ...from which it follows that gay marriage will increase the
           overall wealth of society, since more people will be getting
           \_ Unless many gay marriages end in divorce.  [Disclaimer: Not a
              statement on gay marriages as such (and in fact I am pro-gay
              marriage), but just pointing out a logical flaw.]
              \_ That's a good point.  I guess it depends on how much the
                 positives of marriage and the negatives of divorce cancel
                 eachother out based on the fraction who get divorced.  Of
                 course the same is true of straight couples.  I'm guessing
                 it comes out significantly ahead for marriage with some
                 divorce vs. no marriage or divorce, both for straight and
                 gay couples.  Of course, there are much better reasons to be
                 in favor of gay marriage, but I like to point out these things
                 since it's the party of greed who is most strongly in
                 opposition to gay marriage, in spite of the wealth it would
                 generate for society at large.
              \_ This is easy to deal with: just don't let gay people get
                 divorced. This will help build society's wealth, while also
                 preserving the traditional heterosexual institution of
        \_ So that's how those Mormons get rich!
           \_ Well, is there research on the relationship between children
              and wealth?  My guess is negative, and very.
              \_ Huh, another argument for gay-marriage.
              \_ Agreed.  I'm happily married but unhappily parenting.
        \_ There's a conflating factor, which is that people often get
           divorced because of money.  "For those who got divorced,
           wealth began to decline about four years before divorce and
           bottomed out the year prior to divorce."  So it is probably not
           the divorce that causes the loss of wealth, but the loss of
           wealth causing the divorce.  -tom
           \_ Maybe, I don't think there's a lot of evidence for that in
              the article though.  It could also be that your wealth goes
              down when your marriage is on the rocks. -jrleek
              \_ Could be, but I think common sense would show Tom's
                 scenario more likely. There's no real reason I can
                 think of for wealth to decrease just because a marriage is
                 going poorly.
                 \_ Normally finances are the direct cause of marriage problems
                    and lead to divorce.  Want to know how a couple could get
                    into financial problems?  Take a young couple with a $30k
                    wedding + honeymoon, so they start out life in debt.  Then
                    she quits her job when they having their first kid.  You
                    can all see where this leads.
                 \_ Eating out alone more often because not wanting to eat with
                    spouse at home?  Cost of marriage counselling?  Decrease in
                    work performance because of bad mood, hence lower bonuses
                    and raises and promotion?  More impulse shopping?
                    \_ Don't forget the cost of a mistress/beau.
                 \_ "Wealth begins climbing again in the year of the
                     divorce, but not by much." Then why does wealth begin
                     to increase after divorce?
                     \_ Throwing yourself into work to avoid depression/dealing
                     \_ closure?
                     \_ Divorce lawyers are expensive.
        \_ This is a stupid study.  It's done on 21 to 28 years old who don't
           have much money to begin with:  "After divorce, men had 2.5 times the
           wealth of women, but this seemingly large disparity worked out to
           only about $5,100, on average."  At this stage, little things like
           paying a divorce lawyer can eat up the few thousands dollars of
           have much money to begin with:  "After divorce, men had 2.5 times
           the wealth of women, but this seemingly large disparity worked out
           to only about $5,100, on average."  At this stage, little things
           like paying a divorce lawyer can eat up the few thousands dollars of
           \_ 21-28 year olds shouldn't be marrying.  Marriage shouldn't be
              allowed before 30.  35 would be even better.
              \_ You work in the fertility biz?
                 \_ I didn't say "no kids before 30." I said "no marriage
                    before 30."  I don't want to hear anyone complain about
                    high divorce rates when they're marrying off their 17 year
                    old daughter.
                    high divorce rates when they're marrying their 17 year
                    old daughter.  I am yet to be convinced that pregnancy
                    out-of-wedlock is more dangerous than wedlock out-of-
                    \_ Wow.  That's not a point of view you hear every day.
                    \_ Hahaha. What's "dangerous" about it?
                       \_ I meant to say "harmful", not "dangerous", but the
                          strains of marriage are not helped along by feelings
                          of obligation and resentment over an unexpected
                          pregnancy, not to mention financial strain. There is
                          no reason other than social stigma for marriage to
                          be the necessary response to a pregnancy.  Outside
                          of pregnancy, I posit that people are ill-equipped
                          to make a life-without-end bargain in their 20s.
                          \_ Well the kids -> marriage thing is about the
                             kids and being responsible for them, and trying
                             to provide a family. No pregnancy is truly 100%
                             unexpected and people make choices when they
                             decide to fuck each other (and not abort). Anyway
                             since divorce exists, obviously it's not
                             life-without-end now is it? Society doesn't seem
                             to care that people regularly break these pledges.
                             \_ I care. </skywalker>  Divorce sucks for all
                                involved.  A breakup, if it must happen, is
                                hard enough without legalities and such.  We
                                seem to be talking at cross purposes here.
                                The dysfunction that can arise from entering
                                marriage based on obligation is what I was
                                talking about above re "harm".
                \_ Fertility is still very good in the early 30s. It is not
                   until after 35 that it really starts to fall off.
2006/2/13-15 [Computer/HW/Laptop, Computer/HW/Display] UID:41818 Activity:nil
2/13    Can anyone recommend a local computer maker in the East Bay? I want
        to upgrade our (circa 1998) home desktop system box and only the box
        and I don't have the time or fu to build one myself.
        \_ go to and find an out of state system builder with
           the right price/system for you.  try monarch or one of the other
           larger places that's been around for a while with a decent rep.
        \_ General Computing Systems, 3226 Grand Ave., Oakland:
        \_ If you don't mind going across the bridge, check out Central
           Computers, 837 Howard St. @ 5th St in San Francisco:
           Central's prices are reasonable, but by no means the cheapest out
           there.  Turnaround time in my experience is very fast.  I don't
           always get someone with the best English when I call, but they've
           never screwed up an order.  I'm told they are reasonable and prompt
           when it comes to returns.  I think I heard about Central from
           jon@csua, you might inquire further with him. -dans
        \_ Why does it have to be local?
2006/2/13-15 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:41819 Activity:nil
2/13    Abortion could make Australia a Muslim nation
        \_ And yet their immigration policy remains ridiculously
        \_ You forgot "...according to an evangelical crackpot."  -tom
           \_ And the MP for the southern Sydney seat of Hughes.
              \_ Pauline Hansen was elected to Australian parliament. -John
           \_ Oh, where does it say "evangelical crackpot"?  Or is that just
              from your personal crystal ball?
              \_ "Danna Vale became a juvenile justice lawyer after raising
                  her four children and joined the Liberal Party when John
                  Hewson lost the unloseable election in 1993. She urged two
                  local men to stand for Hughes, then considered a safe Labor
                  seat. They refused, and she says she woke up one morning
                  convinced that God wanted her to stand."
                 \_ You're confusing between "religious" and "evangelical
                    \_ Hey, if the shoe fits....
           \_ You also forgot, "And a wacky imam."
2006/2/13-15 [Recreation/Dating] UID:41820 Activity:nil
2/13    reviews of escorts
        \_ Where is this?
        \_ Err, wait, someone is PAYING to have cybersex?
        \_ Wait, Second Life escorts? Wtf?
2006/2/13-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:41821 Activity:low
2/13    Trailers for Katrina survivors going to waste.  Our gov't dollars at
        \_ Are these the $60k a pop "trailers o' hope"?
           \_ More like $40k a pop.
        \_ A family member in Mississippi got one of these FEMA trailers.
           Their house is now in good enough condition to live in and
           yet the trailer still sits in the yard. No one has asked
           about picking it up or reassigning it and it's not clear what
           will happen to it. What a waste.
           \_ Hey, free trailer!  -John
              \_ Yes, thousands of empty trailers while people sleep in
                 the streets. This is sort of the opposite problem of
                 Soviet Russia.
                 \_ Mr. President, we must not allow...a trailer gap!  -John
2006/2/13-15 [Transportation/Car] UID:41822 Activity:nil
2/13    How much does it typically cost for emergency medical transportation,
        ie. to fly an injured person from, say, China, back to the US?  I'm
        shopping for travel insurance.  Access America, which is recommended by
        AAA, provides coverage for $300K; while Travelex, which used to be
        recommended by AAA 3yrs ago, provides coverage for only $25k.  It's a
        12x difference.  I'm just trying to get a ballpark number to see what
        dollar range at least makes sense.  Thanks.
2006/2/13-15 [Uncategorized] UID:41823 Activity:nil
2/13    What humorless prick deleted this?
        Cheney's got a gun. (Warning has sound)
2006/2/13-20 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:41824 Activity:moderate
2/13    What are your favorite old school computer games?
        \_ Recently rediscovered Pathways into Darkness
           \_ The skill levels for weapons was a cool innovation for a fps.
        \_ Jumpman Jr.
        \_ The Pawn (C64 - 1985?), Conan (various 1986?)
        \_ The Prawn (C64 - 1985?), Conan (various 1986?)
           Impossible Mission (C64 - 1986?)
           Stay a while. Stay forever!!!!!!!!!!!!
           Pool Of Radiance.
           \_ Conan and Bruce Lee! Also, Black Magic for the Apple ][.
        \_ Leisure Suite Larry 1-3 (1986?), King's Quest 1-6 (1983-9?),
           Police Quest (lame lame lame), Manhunter (Bad bad bad),
           Space Quest 1-4. Faces/Facetris (1990?), Starcon (1991?),
           Montezuma's Revenge (1985?), EA's One-on-One (Larry vs Erving
           in the early 80s), Music Construction Set (ok it's not a game
           but it was like, WOW in the early 80s), Lemmings (1990s?),
           Ancient Art of War (loved archers), Ancient Art of War at Sea,
           Up-and-Down (1983?), Sopwith (cute little game).
        \_ Ultimate Wizard for C64 (1989 or so?)
           Burger Hut Of Apshai (see above)
           Jumpman Jr. (see above)
           Hardhat Mack (see above)
           Gemstone Warrior (apple IIe 1986 I think)
           Miner 2049'er (really really old Atari 800 game)
           Odyssey (apple IIe, near the epoch)
           \_ Is Odyssey the game where you explored an island building
              an army? I eventually bought some ships but had no clue
              what to do after that.
           \_ Geez look 'em up yourself if you care so much.  Almost all
              of these are from the mid 80's.  I doubt most people here
              really remember exactly what year a game came out.
        \_ Apple ][: Lemonade, Taipan, Lode Runner, Archon, Adv. Const. Set
           Macintosh: Shufflepuck Cafe, Robosport. On this topic, anyone know
           how to run b/w or 16 color games on OS X?
           \_ try vMac or Basilisk II:
        \_ i am surprised that no one mentioned:
           "Captain Goodnight"
           \_ having to walk underneath the grenade arc of lots of robots
              and then restarting from the beginning of the level was not fun
           "Rescue Raiders"
        \_ Lode Runner.  I played on Apple II plus.
           \_ I 2nd that
           \_ heh, yeah -- that was pretty fun.   (c64, baby)      -mice
           \_ Yah, that was pretty fun.   (c64, baby)      -mice
           \_ how many levels did you finish?
                \_ I made like over 100+ levels and I remember getting to at
                   least level 64 -- !ppp
              \_ Less than 10.  I didn't play that much computer game, but
                 Lode Runner is one of my favorites when I did play.
           \_ This was one of the best games on my Mac. I also remember
              the PowerPC version that was in color w/ nice backgrounds.
              Truly classic game.
        \_ Ultima III -- ended up editing the disk and removing the snake
           because I couldn't find the right dungeon to get the final mark.
           Of course right after I defeated Exodus I found the dungeon.
           Commodore 64.
           Also MULE on the commodore and Atari
        \_ Wizardry
        \_ anyone remember Archon?
           \_ Heh, yeah -- Archon rocked.  The sequel wasn't nearly as
              fun.          -mice
           \_ Got a little boring playing the computer after I figured out how
              to defeat it 100% of the time in 5 moves (I think it was:
              Manticore to top disk thing, Manticore to bottom, sword guy to
              Center, Teleport shapeshifter on top of character next to wizard/
              sorceress, defeat wizard/sorceress)
              \_ Dude, at that point you had to start making personal
                 challenges.  When I won the game with only one soldier guy
                 was when I knew the game was getting old.
                 \_ I once defeated the sorceress with a knight in
                    "Archon Ultra" (a new PC version that came out a while ago)
                    My friend who was playing against me stormed off pissed
                    and we never played that game again.
        \_ Sword of Aragon
        \_ Lady Tut on Apple II Plus.
        \_ Lady Tut on Apple II Plus.  I especially like that the notes in its
           theme song somehow don't sound like square waves when it's played on
           the Apple speaker.  How did they do that?
        \_ Fort Apocolypse on the Atari 800
        \_ Temple of Apshai and the sequels
        \_ Paratrooper, robotron, spacewar (last was freeware on X).
        \_ Mail Order Monsters, Bard's Tale I-III, can't forget Might and
           Magic I where nothing really made any sense.          -mice
        \_ Does netrek count?  -tom
        \_ Does netrek count?  (1986) -tom
           \_ yes, but why didn't they have PC or Mac clients?
              \_ At the time, there were very few PCs or Macs on the Internet,
                 and the network stacks weren't up to the task.  The first
                 viable Windows client appeared in the early 90s.  -tom
        \_ CGA SpaceWar
        \_ Bilestoad.
        \_ King's Quest
           \_ I completed this.
        \_ Summer/Winter/California Games from Epyx
        \_ Ancient Art of War
        \_ Ancient Art of War (1984)
           \_ you too?  Did you create your own scenarios?
                What formation did you typically use?  Hit and run with
                \_ Hit and run with archers was the "money play".  Archers
                   in a line at the back...
                \_ I don't recall creating my own scenarios.  yes, hit
                   and run with archers wins the game.
        \_ Can someone put together a chronology of when the above games
           first appeared?
           \_ That's hard.  Many games have different versions (arcade, Atari
              console, C64, Apple II, ...) that appeared in different times.
           \_ I'm guessing you are a recent grad or an undergrad?
        \_ Wasteland
           \_ Oh, man -- that brings back memories.  I think wasteland is still
              in my top 10 favorites.     -mice
           \_ I so want to replay wasteland to remember all the plot points.
              But I so can't get over the interface these days.  -sax
           \_ I only played Wasteland after I'd already played Fallout. After
              getting into the old-game mentality it was good, but I enjoyed
              the Fallouts more.
        \_ No infocom games on this list??
           \_ With the exception of H2G2, infocom was more endured than
        \_ NFL Challenge, Scorched Earth
           \_ NFL Challenge was good, but there was a play on defense that
              worked well.
        \_ Sopwith / Red Baron, and you can still get it for free!
        \_ Sopwith (1984)/ Red Baron, and you can still get it for free!
        \_ Railroad tycoon, colonization, civilization, anything by Sid Meirs
        \_ asteroids
        \_ Nethack
        \_ Lemmings
           \_ on the Amiga -- that was great. I liked Qix a and
              Boulderdash a lot too (C64).
        \_ Dark Castle!  And Battletech, for the Infocom guy.   -John
        \_ AutoDuel
        \_ AutoDuel. Secret of Monkey Island. Montezuma's Revenge.
           Donkey Kong. Choplifter. Bomberman.
           Donkey Kong. Choplifter. Bomberman. bz.
           Donkey Kong. Choplifter. Bomberman. bz. Chuck Yeager's Air
           \_ AutoDuel was cool, but the laser deaths were l4m3.
        \_ M.U.L.E. Really though, I think I spent more time playing coin-op
           games.  I think I pissed away more lunch money on Xevious than
           anything else. Also, I spent a lot of time typing in code from
           various magazines and books, like CIA Agent.  -gabriel
        \_ Aztec, Taipan, Chivalry (written in PASCAL!)
        \_ Empire on the Vaxen.
        \_ Empire on the Vax. (Ordered by time: hunt, empire, dtrek, nettrek)
        \_ Empire
        \_ Simcity
        \_ Neuromancer and Nine Princes in Amber
        \_ Does anyone here remember a series of text-based games for the
           TRS-80, including Archipelago and some Dracula-like game? I'd
           love to reconnect with those.
           \_ Dungeons of Daggorath on the TRS-80 CoCo.
           \_ Found them! Located in the file here:
        \_ Double Dragon, Yie-Ar Kung Fu, Street Fighter 2, Burgertime,
           Super Dodge Ball, Bards Tale(s), Ultima (3-6)
           \_ *sigh*  I miss the days when ECA made good games.    -mice
        \_ burgertime, nethack, lode runner, phantasie iii, lemmings
        \_ Lemonade Stand. Now available for MacOS X:
2006/2/13-14 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:41825 Activity:kinda low
2/13    Soda undergraduates, I am too old to remember this, is English
        1A/1B a requirement for CS in L&S?
        \_ I thought it was a requirement for every department in L&S.
           Relatively easy to test out of, though.
        \_ Yes, as the pp indicated, it is an L&S requirement, not a
           major/departmental requirement.  A 4 on the AP English exam tests
           you out of 1A, a 5 tests you out of both. -dans
        \_ OTOH 1B was not required for EECS.
        \_ There is the 2 semester R&C requirement but you don't have to take it
           from the English department.
        \_ and frankly, I am not sure English 1A/1B helped.... as my messages
           on motd clearly illustrated.
2006/2/13-15 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:41826 Activity:kinda low
2/13    On it lists Capital One and LexisNexis as its sponsors.
        Doesn't accepting sponsors cast doubt on its fairness?
        \_ BBB is fucking bullshit.
           \_ Yes.
              I am the op for both of these posts.
        \_ Maybe, but complaining to the BBB is a great way to get
           unscrupulous merchants to remove charges.
           \_ How does this work?  What power do they have over a random
              unscrupulous business?
              \_ PR.  Good businesses don't want a bad BBB record.  Bad ones
                 don't care.  So before any large purchases check with the
                 BBB.  Bad record?  They suck.  Go elsewhere.  If they're
                 that bad someone will eventually sue them and the BBB record
                 will work against them in court.  True fly by night criminals
                 don't care at all of course, buyer beware.
              \_ I honestly don't know, but twice rental car companies have
                 tried to rip me off and charge me for a full tank of gas
                 when I returned the car full and both times the BBB got
                 the charges removed. The first time I tried all kinds of
                 things before hitting on them, the second time I just went
                 straight to them. Someone told me that the BBB has the power
                 to fine its members, but I don't know if that is true or not.
                 \_ Which rental car companies by the way?
2006/2/13-15 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:41827 Activity:low
2/13    Yes, Virginia, the United States does engage in torture:
        \_ Well, yes, we know that Al Qaeda is trained in trying to make wild
           accusations and so forth
           \_ "A draft United Nations report on the detainees at Guantanamo
               Bay concludes that the U.S. treatment of them violates their
               rights to physical and mental health and, in some cases,
               constitutes torture."
              Your herring, sir, it is red.
              \_ Bullshit:
                 "The report, compiled by five U.N. envoys who interviewed
                 former prisoners, detainees' lawyers and families, and U.S.
                 officials, is the product of an 18-month investigation ordered
                 by the U.N. Commission on Human Rights. The team did not have
                 access to prisoners at Guantanamo Bay."
                 \_ Were these the UN Human Rights Commission envoys from
                    Libya, the Sudan or Zimbabwe?
                 \_ well, that was because they were invited for the official
                    GTMO tour, but denied access to the prisoners, so the
                    UN team declined to go at all
                    \_ The reasons for the results being bogus don't change the
                       fact that it's bogus.
                       \_ so the bogosity comes from the fact that the UN team
                          doesn't have damning proof, like videotape or
                          high-ranking whistleblowers with an authentic log?
           \_ Well, unfortunately, it appears that the Bush Administration
              has the same propensity. So we really need to allow a nuetral
              third party in to make observations. Too bad the Congress is
              too spineless to do its job of oversight. Maybe it will get
              more fortitude after Nov 2006.
2006/2/13 [Uncategorized] UID:41828 Activity:nil
2/13    How do I tell mh that I am and send out
        as a use with that identity?
2006/2/13-15 [Computer/Networking] UID:41829 Activity:nil
2/13    Do I really have to point my cisco pix at some cert. authority
        if I want to use keys (instead of "pre-shared secrets") ?
        I can't just self sign?? wtf?
        \_ Actually, why not just create a CA signing cert with OpenSSL
           (it's not that hard), sign a cert with that, and then import the
           CA public key into pix?  Or use a static passphrase for phase I
           negotiation (I assume you're doing ipsec?)  -John
2006/2/13-15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:41830 Activity:low
2/13    I miss jblack's Republican trolls
        \_ jblack isn't a Republican or a conservative.  He's a freeper.
           \_ No, actually he is all three. But yeah, if you miss them
              so badly you could always go to The Free Republic yourself.
              \_ He is neither a Republican nor a conservative.  Anyone who
                 loves the freepers that much is a freeper and nothing else.
                 \_ The freepers all believe they are conservatives. Most
                    of them believe they are Republicans. Who are you to
                    say otherwise?
2019/04/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2006:February:13 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>