Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:April:12 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2005/4/12-14 [Recreation/Media] UID:37149 Activity:low
4/11    Everyone go watch the movie "Primer" right now.  Then come back here
        and explain to me what in the fizuck is going on.
        \_ So, um, you want us to write you a primer on Primer?
           \_ I guess, yeah.  I urge you all to go rent it on DVD if you can
              find it - this is the first science fiction movie I've seen in
              ages that deals with actual ideas instead of just aliens blowing
              shit up.  And it was made for $7,500 apparently.  I think I've
              got a better handle on what's happening now, actually.  Here's a
              hint: recursion.
              \_ Can't we just say that it's not physically possible to go
                 backwards in time and any movie which speculates on it is just
                 another Star Trek / STNG / Back To The Future / The Butterfly
                 Effect re-hash?
                 \_ No, becuase those are generally bad (camp value of Star
                    Trek aside), and this movie is Good.
                    \_ Okay, the NetFlix users seem to think so too, so I
                       put it in queue.  But it's not out until next Tuesday.
                       Thanks!  Always looking for good stuff.
2005/4/12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37150 Activity:nil
4/12    It is easy to dismiss this guy as a crackpot, but he is
        a Senior Fellow for EPIC, a retired NSA analyst and
        was an intelligence officer in the Marine Corp:
        http://csua.org/u/bnk (onlinejournal)
2005/4/12-14 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/Security] UID:37151 Activity:nil
4/12    Free transbay bus service for one month:
        http://www.actransit.org/news/articledetail.wu?articleid=ae28f29b
        Pretty attractive when gas price is high.
        \_ It's only free westbound.  Return trip still costs $3.  But I
           think it's a good publicity for the new park & ride lot.
2005/4/12 [Uncategorized] UID:37152 Activity:nil
4/12    Tiger released!
2005/4/12-13 [Health/Men, Recreation/Sports] UID:37153 Activity:high
4/12    Would I be sexist if I said men played american football better
        than women?
        \_ If you mean that the best players right now are men, that's
           obviously true.  If you mean that men are inherently better,
           that's not obviously true, and it would be sexist if you said
           it without justification.
           \_ Sure it's obviously true. It's objective fact that the top male
              athletes in all sports are stronger, heavier, run faster etc.
              American football is not a finesse sport.
           \_ It would be sexist even if you said it with justification.
              Science giving way to politics.
              \_ you're a moron.  -tom
        \_ Watching woman play american football is more fun than watching men.
        \_ Yes you are sexist.  But if you rephrase it as "men played American
           football better than women because women are discriminated", you are
           not sexist.  See the logic?
           \_ you're a moron.  -tom
              \_ you're a moron, tom.
              \_ Is that better or worse than being an idiot?  -!pp
              \_ I'm not the moron.  People who caused this kind of logic are
                 the morons.  -- pp
                 \_ yes, you are the moron.  -tom
        \_ What if I said I prefer watching women in lingerie playing football?
           \_ Don't know.
           \_ personal preference versus statement of possibly unfounded fact.
        \_ And that is wrong because? PC is just another form of
           discrimination - just self-deluded.
           \_ Political correctness seems much more like a disease of the right
              than the left these days.
2005/4/12-14 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:37154 Activity:nil
4/12    Whoever put that link to the Wayne Madsen article ( I didn't
        nuke it) still can't believe that there is a world outside of
        suburbs and cities that votes in a unison for the President.
        Visit a NASCAR game or listen to country and you'll see.
2005/4/12-13 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:37155 Activity:nil
4/12    OS X Tiger release date announced: 2005-04-29
2005/4/12-14 [Academia] UID:37156 Activity:nil
4/12    Anyone know how services like http://upromise.com make money?  Seems to fall
        in the "anything that sounds too good to be true..." category?
        Do all of the member companies get access to all of your tracking
        data?
        \_ currently, manufacturers don't always know the end-user of their
           product.  They do market studies and coupons and such to try
           and find such information.  This looks like a way to share end
           user information with the manufacturers.  Thus the manufacturers
           pay a small fee: 2% MSRP in order to find out more end user
           demographic info.  Who knows what other info they mine?  They may
           also track and look for market demographic clustering, etc.  Who
           knows? They may also get the guvmint to kick in some %-age of the
           "college savings." -nivra
2005/4/12-13 [Recreation/Food] UID:37157 Activity:high
4/12    Anyone have advice on how to deal with co-workers eating bad
        smelling food w/o causing an incident? --person who works with
        alot of immigrants
        \_ Yell at them to go the fuck back to whatever country they came
           from. I did that. Sure, everyone hates me now but it got the point
           across! (No, really. I was having a bad day and did that)
           \_ Nothing personal, but since one can get fired for sexual
              harassment, would this kind of behavior result in
              anything? What's the proper response if you are the one
              being yelled at? File a complaint to the manager? What
              if the manager is yelling? I mean if the manager yells
              "fix this code stupid", then that's one thing. But if he
              yells "go back to your country" I think that's a little
              too racial.
              too racialist.
              \_ You can definitely get fired for comments like that.  -tom
        \_ Post a sign at the microwave saying please be considerate and don't
           heat smelly food in the microwave.  Personally, I like fish but I
           don't bring it to work in my lunch.  -- Chinese immigrant
        \_ Topic already well covered, move on...
           http://csua.com/?entry=28356
           http://csua.com/?entry=28335
           http://csua.com/?entry=28341
        \_ Is there some food (maybe Korean?) that smells kind of mildewy?
           Sometimes there's a smell kind of like if you leave wet clothes too
           long, and I used to think it was myself, but then I realized it's
           only at certain times. It's either Indian or Korean. -someone else
        \_ Wear a mask while they're eating and they'll get the picture.
           \_ 1. No they won't get the picture.
              2. If they do, they'll just think you're a racist pig.
        \_ broaden your horizons, perhaps?  i have a sensitive nose and at
           times disliked the smell of indian and korean foods wafting
           down the hall at work, but NEVER was it as revolting as
           the nasty oily smell of mcdonalds "take out" nor the electrical
           fire smell of microwaved popcorn. those are products worthy
           of administrative bans.
           of administrative bans. -eric
2005/4/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:37158 Activity:high
4/12    Should China or Japan apologize? Which side are you on and why?
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/12/china.japan
        \_ What's astounding to me is that the politics within Japan keep
           the necessary reform of textbooks from happening. It IS appalling
           that many Japanese people make it all the way through college
           oblivious to why much of Asia hates them. It also continues to give
           Beijing something it can use as a diplomatic lever when they want
           something. It would be difficult for Beijing to take the moral high
           ground if it didn't have this drum to beat. The fact we're hearing
           about this now makes me suspect Beijing is trying to pull a fast
           one in some other area. Check on the conflict over natural gas in
           the China Sea lately? -- ulysses
           \_ Japan's entry as a permanent member of the Security Council.
           \_ So China is by default the bad one in any disputes?  I once met
              an American who thought opium war is about Chinese trying to sell
              opium to Britain and getting punished, and so I am not surprised
              to hear this on the motd.  (No swiftboat troll please)  Japan has
              been pulling "fast ones" in China sea for years, but you never
              hear it in the west.  Korea used its navy to seize some islands
              it (rightly) claims from Japan.  Have you heard of that?  China
              has been relying on (empty) protests.  No good deed goes
              unpunished, I guess.
           \_ It seems that Japan is pulling a fast one.
        http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050414a1.htm
                Japan government approves drilling in contested region;
                Japan government approves drilling in contested water;
                "the Defense Agency and the Japan Coast Guard" will "ensure
                the safety of the Japanese firms involved."
        \_ Here's an interesting perspective I had not seen anywhere else:
           http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GD14Ad06.html
           \_ Not mentioned elsewhere?  You have to be kidding.  I read it
              everywhere.  Every time anything happens with China, it must
              have a hidden, devious and sinister motive, according to all
              the western (and Japanese) news, from the NYT to freerepublic.
              China builds a highway?  It is trying to the supress freedom,
              etc.  One of my favorite was from The Economist.  Right after
              Musharraf's coup in Pakistan, Econ. condemns it.  Then China
              publicly (and mildly) expressed concern over the coup.  Econ.
              panicked and switched its stance, saying basically that since
              China does not like it, the coup must be a good thing after all!
              \_ The western media is extremely biased when it comes
                 to news about China. Whatever the news is, they can
                 always spin it in such a way that they can say
                 something bad about China. Everything you read about
                 China is negative. If you read enough of these news,
                 it's natural to form a negative opinion. They are not
                 lying (for the most part), they are just extremely
                 selective on the 'facts'.
        \_ Apologize for what?  It seems clear that Japan has yet to
           acknowledge let alone apologize for the various atrocities
           it committed throughout Asia in the 1930s-1940s (and earlier).
           So yeah, Japan should apologize for that.  What in particular
           were you thinking China should apologize for?  China has many
           things for which to apologize, but for protests in front of
           the .jp embassy?  come on. --Jon
           \_ According to that article "Japan's leaders have so far
              apologized to China on no fewer than 17 occasions since the
              two nations restored diplomatic ties in 1972, according to
              The Economist Global Agenda."
              I dunno, China *is* a scary country.
                                               _/
Even ignoring the word play that comes in every
such so-called apology, can you consider it an apology when the
"apologizer" makes it clear before and after the apology that he did
not mean to apologize.  If you can, you should find yourself "scary."
As for the article, it is quite typical and predictable of most
western journalist trying to insinuate that China does not have a
valid case in any contentious issue by selectively "reporting" "facts"
and quotes.  There were larger, more intense protests in Korea started
earlier and continue to this day.  They have an equally valid case for
their anger, but you wouldn't hear much of it on the western press,
and rarely if ever in a negative light.  What Chinese and Koreans want
from Japanese is not some faked verbal apology, but a sincere and
serious acceptance of responsibility and the belief from their conscience
"War was wrong and I now want to be your good neighbor," instead of its
current "I was your master, then the Yankees nuked us.  Ouch that
hurt, and now under the Yankees supervision I remain your master."  If
anything, the Chinese government has been holding back popular
resentment on this issue, giving Japan time, decades of it, to act up.
What they got in return were slaps on the face, year after year.  The
textbooks have been getting worse every (4?) years, the period of revision
and review by the Japanese government.  They now state in the textbooks
that it is China's fault that it was attacked, invaded, and occupied,
it's Korea's fault to be in Japan's way to conquer China that it had
to be invaded, that if any Chinese civilians and POWs were killed by
Japanese (in Nanjing and elsewhere) it was all done within the normal
conduct of war, that the Tokyo war courts' finding of wartime atrocity
were unfounded, that Japan made great sacrifice during WWII with the
sole intention to save Asia from western imperialists, and so on.  How is
this for an apologetic and reformed axis power?  And all this is not the
work of a few conspirators that sneaked under the radar screen, but a
wide open, popular, aggressive and concerted campaign by leading
politicians to reassert Japanese economic, military, and political
domination over its neighbors, including but not limited to its
induction into security council, perhaps permanently, this year.  Only a
small band of courageous but marginalized Japanese citizens have stood
up and condemned this.
                   Malformated verbal diarrhea _/
                   deleted.
              \_ Even ignoring the word play that comes in every such
                 so-called apology, can you consider it an apology when the
                 "apologizer" makes it clear before and after the apology
                 that he did not mean to apologize.  If you can, you should
                 find yourself "scary." As for the article, it is quite
                 typical and predictable of most western journalist trying
                 to insinuate that China does not have a valid case in any
                 contentious issue by selectively "reporting" "facts" and
                 quotes.  There were larger, more intense protests in Korea
                 started earlier and continue to this day.  They have an
                 equally valid case for their anger, but you wouldn't hear
                 much of it on the western press, and rarely if ever in a
                 negative light.  What Chinese and Koreans want from
                 Japanese is not some faked verbal apology, but a sincere
                 and serious acceptance of responsibility and the belief
                 from their conscience "War was wrong and I now want to be
                 your good neighbor," instead of its current "I was your
                 master, then the Yankees nuked us.  Ouch that hurt, and now
                 under the Yankees supervision I remain your master."  If
                 anything, the Chinese government has been holding back
                 popular resentment on this issue, giving Japan time,
                 decades of it, to act up.  What they got in return were
                 slaps on the face, year after year.  The textbooks have
                 been getting worse every (4?)  years, the period of
                 revision and review by the Japanese government.  They now
                 state in the textbooks that it is China's fault that it was
                 attacked, invaded, and occupied, it's Korea's fault to be
                 in Japan's way to conquer China that it had to be invaded,
                 that if any Chinese civilians and POWs were killed by
                 Japanese (in Nanjing and elsewhere) it was all done within
                 the normal conduct of war, that the Tokyo war courts'
                 finding of wartime atrocity were unfounded, that Japan made
                 great sacrifice during WWII with the sole intention to save
                 Asia from western imperialists, and so on.  How is this for
                 \_ Is this true? I find this shocking. links?
                    \_ The Japanese claim may have some validity depending
                       on what point in history one is talking about.
                       Japan's attitude was a changing mixture of "dang,
                       we are getting screwed by the western powers",
                       "we need to get strong and help asia defend itself",
                       "hey, we want our own part of the imperialism pie",
                       "uh oh, china is getting stronger, we better nip it
                       in the bud", "koreans and chinese are sub-humans,
                       we are superior and should kill them or rule over
                       them".  The whole process goes back up till several
                       decades before WWII, includes the Russo-Japanese
                       War (1905), Sino-Japanese War (1894/5), etc.
                       Of course, the revisionists these days just focus
                       solely on the "We are just trying to
                       defending asia against western imperialism" part.
                     \_ If you read Chinese or Korean, it should be widely
                        available.
                        http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2005-03-25/02035456043s.shtml
                        http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2005-03-24/13325453393s.shtml
                        are two examples in Chinese.  I suspect that it is not
                        that hard to find Japanese version either.  The
                        Japanese groups behind the textbook rewriting are quite
                        proud of what they did and quite likely they are
                        bragging what changes they will put in the future.  I
                        am sorry I cannot find any western journalists willing
                        to report on the textbooks.  One has to look deep into
                        their soul to figure out why.
                 an apologetic and reformed axis power?  And all this is not
                 the work of a few conspirators that sneaked under the radar
                 screen, but a wide open, popular, aggressive and concerted
                 campaign by leading politicians to reassert Japanese
                 economic, military, and political domination over its
                 neighbors, including but not limited to its induction into
                 security council, perhaps permanently, this year. Only a
                 small band of courageous but marginalized Japanese citizens
                 have stood up and condemned this.
                                        - formatted for op
                 \_ Well said, thank you! -ray
              \_ I imagine the problem is not so much that Japan hasn't
                 apologized but that Japanese text book publishers keep
                 putting out books that (in China's opinion) minimizes
                 Japanese atrocities during WWII.  How much (central)
                 governmental control does Japan have over its textbooks?
                 \_ I understand the Education Ministry is very nationalist.
                 \_ "The acrimonious exchanges come after a week of rising
                     tensions over the Japanese Government's approval of a
                     controversial school textbook, which plays down the
                     extent of historical atrocities committed by Japan.
                     Among its other perceived flaws, the book, which was
                     written by a panel of nationalist educators, removed
                     all reference to 'comfort women'  Asian women forced
                     into sexual slavery by the Japanese Imperial Army."
                     http://csua.org/u/bo2  (UK Times)
              \_ "... apologized ... no fewer than 17 occasions ..."
                 apologized for what?
                 \_ "We're sorry you're all a bunch of pussies."
                 \_ "We're sorry we did the good ole in-and-out on your
                     country".
                     country" (seriously)
                     \_ It's not even "We're sorry about the in-and-out ...".
                        It's "We feel sorry about the in-and-out ...".  In
                        other words, it was explicitly only an expression of
                        resentment, not an apology.
        \_ Japan was stupid to accept the new revisions to the textbooks.
           In an ideal world, Japan should back out to the old revisions and
           send back the new ones for review.
        \_ What about Germany? What do text book in Germany say about WWII?
           \_ The holocaust was a JEWISH CONSPIRACY!  It never happened!1!
           \_ 'Germany continues to compensate victims even today, although
               World War II ended 60 years ago, Mr. Roh observed.
               "Germany also publishes history textbooks through
               consultation with its neighbors," [South Korean President
               President Roh Moo-hyun] said. He said that South Korea is
               envious of Germany's neighbors for having such an opportunity.'
               http://csua.org/u/bo1 (JoongAng Daily)
           \_ U.S. textbooks are an interesting piece of fiction, too.
              \_ I'm glad you learned from them to get your degree as well
        \_ Imagine if Germany did what Japan has done.  German president/pm
           visits cemetary where Hitler and his generals were interred to
           pay respects.  Germany approves new history books whitewashing
           the holocaust. -nivra
2005/4/12-15 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:37159 Activity:nil 50%like:36997
4/12    I'm movin' on.  Job listing at /csua/pub/jobs/Lyris
        --scotsman
2005/4/12-15 [Computer/SW/Languages/Web] UID:37160 Activity:nil
4/12    I know someone that's looking for a contract programmer in the New
        York area.  They want someone fluent in PHP and database development
        to customize and extend one or more content management systems.
        You'll also need to be able to easily go back and forth between
        geekspeak and english.  email me if interested, and I'll put you in
        touch with the appropriate people. -dans
        \_ Sodomize?
2005/4/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:37161 Activity:high
4/12    HAHAHA! HA...heehehe...ahem...
        http://csua.org/u/bo3 (engrish.com)
        \_ boy, that's funny.  I'm sure your Chinese is much better.  -tom
           \_ http://www.engrish.com rules so much happy toilet joy for someone
           \_ What does this have to do with Chinese? -- dumber than tom
              \_ Nothing at all. In fact, I'm not sure tom posted that since he
                 usually has more clue. http://engrish.com is a great place for
                 something that everyone I know who has been to Japan for more
                 than a couple of days appreciates. We used to compete for who
                 could find the pencil boxes with the most bizarre phrasing.
                 No where is erikred when we need him? Incidentally, if you
                 want a good cultural parallel, try what Americans do with
                 Chinese/Japanese characters - particularly as tattoos.
                 -- ulysses
                 \_ http://www.hanzismatter.com
        \_ There's also the menu with "Fried Crap with Spicy Sauce" and the
           "Thundercrap" brand fireworks...
        \_ It's very easy for a Japanese to confuse "L" with "R", since both
           sounds "map" to the same sound in Japanese.  This excuse doesn't
           apply to Chinese.
           \_ Some Chinese also cannot pronounce "L".  My friend from Taiwan
              went to a place called SuFa for some kind of Christian program.
              Took me a while to figure out she was referring to "Sioux Falls"
              \_ that's something different: not being able to end a word
                 with a consonant. not quite the same as mixing up L/R
                 sounds.  in Thailand, you get both of these problems plus
                 a difficulty with adjacent consonents. "central" for example
                 is pronounced cen-tun because the "tr" is too hard and
                 Thai words can end on "n" but never on "l". for Thai, and
                 I think Chinese, much of the meaning is communicated in
                 the vowels and tones, and the consonents are almost
                 superfluous. the listener can sort out mistakes and noise
                 in consonants better than vowels, and people get sloppy
                 with consonants because of this.
2017/11/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/19   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2005:April:12 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>