www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2006/11/the_suburbs_are.html
East Germany, circa 1985 The suburbs are good for your social life A new study says that people who live in sprawling suburban areas have more friends, better community involvement and more frequent contact with their neighbours than urbanites who are wedged in side-by-side. The results challenge the accepted idea that suburban life is socially alienating a notion that's inspired everything from the Academy Award-winning American Beauty to Harvard professor Robert Putnam's book Bowling Alone. The study, released by the University of California at Irvine, found that for every 10 per cent decrease in population density, the chances of people talking to their neighbours weekly increases by 10 per cent, and the likelihood they belong to hobby-based clubs jumps by 15 per cent. "We found that interaction goes down as population density goes up. So, turning it around, it says that interaction is higher where densities are lower," says Jan Brueckner, an economics professor at UC Irvine who led the study. "What that means is suburban living promotes more interaction than living in the central city."
Permalink Comments Well, doesn't that strike against the common wisdom of the day? One thing the results don't invalidate, though, are other externalities associated with suburbanization - like traffic externalities as well as the loss of green space - but that one result itself goes a long way.
theCoach at Nov 14, 2006 8:39:36 AM anecdotally I have the same experience as coach. in the suburbs I have lived in people often don't even know their next door neighbor or the family across the street.
kyle at Nov 14, 2006 8:56:41 AM The reason that people join "hobby-based clubs" is because there are few other mechanisms for social interaction in the suburbs (churches/synagogues/mosques are just the hobby of religion from this perspective). They get together on a weekly or monthly basis to discuss a shared interest, which produces a largely superficial social interaction. That makes it, in my opinion, an inferior substitute good to daily social interaction with those around you.
Thurston at Nov 14, 2006 8:56:49 AM The data doesn't support the conclusions. The data is simply: suburbanites talk to their neighbours and go to activity clubs more than urbanites. This does not support the conclusion "people who live in sprawling suburban areas have more friends, better community involvement" or "The results challenge the accepted idea that suburban life is socially alienating".
Noel Welsh at Nov 14, 2006 9:08:35 AM I think the mechanism behind this is that if you have some 1000 people in a quarter mile radius it is less likely that you will be interested in talking to the people immediatly ajacent to you. I definately have more social contact living in the city than I would in the suburbs even though I don't talk to my immediate neighbors. In a situation where people have more options it should be unsurprising that they are less likely to choose any given option.
Michael Foody at Nov 14, 2006 9:11:47 AM To echo the previous comments, this paper's measure of interaction is awful. If one lived in rural Montana I imagine I would talk to my neighbors all the time as there wouldn't be anyone else around. In a city one can choose among a much wider pool of people to talk to. I suppose I should read the paper, I hope they address this obvious criticism.
RWP at Nov 14, 2006 10:31:06 AM Maybe it has something to do with homogeneity in suburban populations - if you're "like" everyone you live around (eg white, middle-class, with young kids) then aren't you more likely to get along? Contrast this with the city, where the population is more likely to be heterogeneous from a socio-economic, racial, religious, age, etc.
Rob at Nov 14, 2006 10:40:28 AM Does this paper control for economic status? I can't imagine either rural or urban poor would spend much time on "hobby-based clubs".
Wild Pegasus at Nov 14, 2006 10:43:48 AM I agree with Thurston. Joining a hobby-based club is similar to signing up for 300 meals a year at PF Chang's - one makes an extension of her house kitchen to the backdoor of the restaurant. In suburbs, by choice or by necessity, people tend to form smaller networks with stronger ties, whereas in cities, bigger networks, weaker ties. If someone loves having 300 meals a year at PF Chang's, good for her, but she won't be my friend.
Yan Li at Nov 14, 2006 11:00:23 AM My experience is that much of the interation with next door neighbours takes place when you are working outside mowing lawns, shoveling snow, etc. The lower the density, the bigger the yards, the more time doing yard work, the more interaction with next door neighbours. Could the explanation for the regression results be this simple?
joan at Nov 14, 2006 11:08:43 AM rob: "Maybe it has something to do with homogeneity in suburban populations - if you're "like" everyone you live around (eg white, middle-class, with young kids) then aren't you more likely to get along?" I've lived in five suburbs in three states over the past 30 years. My wife and I have hosted two huge subdivision parties and 5 or 6 block parties since 1999. Our closest neighbors drink wine together when we hand out Halloween candy from one driveway or another. My wife has close interaction with 7 other women in the neighborhood. Our circle of friends includes European-Americans, African-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Indian guest workers, and Asian mmigrants. Our token gay guy did move away, but only after serving three years as president of the Homeowner's Association. I've had similar experiences throughout my 30 years of suburban life. Interacting with neighbors really has nothing to do with density. IMO, it's dependent on personal attitude and perception of safety.
JohnDewey at Nov 14, 2006 11:18:50 AM Isn't it interesting that this paper comes from a university located in a planned, suburban community and not from, say, UC Berkeley, Columbia U or U Chicago? Why -- because research is often about justifying an intuition that turns out to be *either* biased or true. Trouble is that the researcher often cannot tell one from the other...
David Zetland at Nov 14, 2006 12:06:15 PM Isn't it interesting that this paper comes from a university located in a planned, suburban community and not from, say, UC Berkeley, Columbia U or U Chicago? Why -- because research is often about justifying an intuition that turns out to be *either* biased or true. Trouble is that the researcher often cannot tell one from the other...
To Dwell among Friends: Personal Networks in Town and City, which is (at best) partly supportive of his findings. Fischer found roughly equal number of friends no matter where one lives (not more in the suburbs or city), but he found other differences.
Red Crayon at Nov 14, 2006 12:46:33 PM Just like to point out that in many western cities, the distinction between urban and suburban is not so clear cut. What you often see is suburban style neighborhoods spread out over many square miles, right up to what used to be the city center - which isn't the center anymore.
Barkley Rosser at Nov 14, 2006 1:02:34 PM That is wonderful but generally suburbs are less diverse than cities. Well, DC has a greater difference between rich and poor than the suburbs surrounding it.
It has many more Asians and Latinos of all varieties, and "looks like America" far more than DC, which has an overrpresentation of blacks far more than Fairfax's slight overrepresenation of whites.
John Thacker at Nov 14, 2006 1:23:36 PM "Suburban Fairfax County is clearly more diverse" Is that a scientific calculaton? I think this would prove the point of why living in the burbs is a 'happier' place.
RWP at Nov 14, 2006 1:43:11 PM Is that a scientific calculaton? As I said, Washington, DC, and indeed cities in general, do have a much greater gap between the richer and poorer. I thought that the gap between rich and poor was a bad thing, unlike racial diversity which is considered a good thing. Should Fairfax County attempt to make some people richer and others poorer in order to increase diversity? By that sort of calculation, cities, states, and countries with l...
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