Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 29093
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2003/7/22-27 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Industry/Jobs] UID:29093 Activity:kinda low 71%like:29140 85%like:29142 55%like:29155
7/22    Looking for junior java developers.   Limited job experience is a plus.
        /csua/pub/jobs/Snapfish.junior.java
        \_ This is a very interesting requirement. Why prefer junior over
           experienced java developers?  Is it the salary factor?  Or
           veteran coders have bad habits? Or are veteran coders very slow?
           Or Junior coders tend to work longer hours, and has no complaints?
           most places are looking for over 10 years experience which I think
           it's kinda dumb.  So exactly why are your company so different that
           seems to see the benefits of junior coders?
           \_ I'm sure it's all about $$$. It always is.
           \_ Money, of course, is always a factor.  As far as the rest,
              anyone is going to be expected to work the hours required to get
              their project(s) done.  I'm not on the dev team but I didn't
              hear anything about bad habits or experienced people being slow,
              etc.  I think they already have piles of veteran coder resumes.
              We don't have a problem taking junior people and training them
              up on the job unlike most companies today.  I guess that's the
              difference.  The dev team guys are all really decent.  No one
              is job hunting that I know of.  For anything more either write
              me and I'll find out or send a resume and you can ask in your
              interview.  I posted what I was told plus whatever else I know.
              \_ Oh I see. I was only curious as your company seems to be the
              only exception. From my working experience, if it were I to make
              the decision, I would give UCB undergrads interviews. My working
              experiences with UCB graduates are very good. And the people that
              supposedly have over 10 years of coding experiences all seem
              pretty lame (bad code, dumb algorith, slow and inacurrate...)--
              I'm talking about only the ppl that I have worked with.
                \_ Pretty much it comes down to having had good experiences
                   in the past hiring new college grads from quality schools.
                   Why pay more for 10+ years when you're happy with a NCG?
        \_ you know, computer science has matured in the past 30 years that
           really complex tasks can be partioned into many simple tasks.
           Look at EJB, J2EE, DB, etc. Everything is just an integration
           of many components that can be broken down further and further
           into more specialized and simple parts, and now we can just hire
           a lot of simple-minded code monkeys to do a product instead of
           a few expensive PhDs. My friend, CS is becoming more and more
           like the automobile industry where you only need a few designers
           (software architects) and a lot of dumb assembly line workers
           (code monkeys).
           \_ damn, that is depressing
           \_ Uhm, ok, maybe so.  Please send junior java resumes.  It's not
              my group so I can't confirm or deny that with regards to my
              company.  Please send junior java resumes.
           \_ In my experience intelligent programmers are hard to find
              and always in demand.  Sure most "progammers" slap together
              a bunch of components or use some visual tool instead of
              taking the time and effort required to do things intellegently.
              These kinds of programmers end up causing the endless
              bugs in windows, slow, bloated software, and missed deadlines.
              Good programmers will always be in demand because software
              development is a complex balance between speed, space,
              flexibility, and cost.
                \_ demand for excellence will always be there, but there
                   will be a much much greater demand for mediocrity.
                   Engineers get paid because business men say so, and
                   business men don't know jack about excellence. They
                   only understand time-to-market and marketting.
ERROR, url_link recursive (eces.Colorado.EDU/secure/mindterm2) 2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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