Transportation Car - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/06/30 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2009/5/31-6/5 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:53063 Activity:moderate
5/31    I was talking to a harpist who asked me if there were any pieces
        that she shouldn't play at my wedding. I said... no, why would
        there be restriction? She told me there may be religious reasons
        or pieces that may touch some nerves. For example, she played
        for Jewish weddings and a few times she's been asked to not play
        Wagner's Wedding march. I find it interesting that 50 years after
        the war, people still feel offended by Wagner. So let me ask you
        Jewish people out there... do you or know someone who wouldn't buy
        or use German products because of the Holocaust? It's godamn 50
        years, and I doubt any [normal] German person still Heil to Hitler.
        \_ Great trolling attempt, I salute you.
        \_ 50 years isn't that long. My mom stills remembers WW II very well.
        \_ My aunts and uncles claims to hate Japan more than I do, but then
        \_ My aunts and uncles claim to hate Japan more than I do, but then
           they all buy more Japanes cars and AV appliances than I do.
           they all buy more Japanese cars and AV appliances than I do.
           -- Chinese
        \_ I have a coworker that won't buy VW. He has a Volvo and a Prius.
        \_ Jewy people buying german cars what the cock is that shit?
           ( )
            (audio NSFW, in case you couldn't guess).
            \_ is she Jewish?
            \_ THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!! A+++ totally recommended.
              \_ She is Jewish, this is her best number.
            \_ It's Sarah Silverman, FWIW, and I would hardly call this
               her best routine. In fact, I rather like Sarah and this
               bit kind of sucked.
               \_ I didn't call it her best routine.  (it is not) I called
                  it her best "number" by which I meant to imply that it is
                  her best musical bit.  This is good, but some of her
                  stand up bits are, in fact, awsome.  (Though a lot of
                  her stuff is just lame.  She's very inconsistent).
            \_ How about Ford? Shouldn't Jewish people boycott Ford, too?
               \_ I thought Ford, Disney, etc spend a LOT of efforts
                  hiring minorities.
                  \_ Ford Sr. was a notorious anti-semite.
                     \_ Ah but what Ford thought and what the company did
                        for minorities were two very different things.
2009/5/14-20 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Languages] UID:52998 Activity:high
5/14    The Borat is baaaack!
        \_ I don't get why you added "The". Why?
           \_ Do you call it "The 405"?
              \_ The Santa Monica Fwy.
              \_ no, that is as stupid as saying Va-Lay-Ho, when you really
                 should be saying Va-Yay-Ho. Stupid gringos, can't say Vallejo.
                 They might as well as say La Jo-Lah, San Diego.
                 \_ "San Ra Fel"
                 \_ "Va-Lay-Ho" sounds stupid, but that's just because it's
                    really pronounced "Va-Lay-Oh".
                    \_ It's stupid when you don't conform to the norms.
                       If Latin is a language of consistency, then
                       English is a language of conformity.
                       \_ Va Yayo.
                          \_ Va-jay-jay.
                 \_ Or Los An-Heh-Les
                    \_ El Eh.
           \_ hey "the freeway" guy: get the f over yourself. its just a
              stylistic choice and neither is any more or less correct. using the
              article is implicitly short for "the 405 freeway". do you say
              "take golden gate bridge"? or "take the golden gate bridge" like
              everyone else. When people omit the article its probably
              implying "route 405" or some such. if you can't handle it,
              dont take the freeway and just RIDE BIKE
              \_ dude, take a chill pill man.
              \_ Do you take "the Telegraph Ave" or speak normal English
                 like everyone else?
              \_ Do you say "take the Telegraph Ave" or speak normal
                 English like everyone else?
        \_ I grew up in Vallejo.  I have never heard anyone pronounce
           it Va Yay Yo or whatever you are promoting.
           \_ Va-La-HO. --e40
           \_ I went to a friend's daughter's Quinceanera in Vallejo.  His
              whole family pronounces the l's like it was an English word.
2009/5/6-9 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:52955 Activity:nil
        \_ Nice article.  -tom
        \_ Starts slow but the comparison between the two towns is nice.
           Nothing new, but re-affirming. -op
2009/4/30-5/5 [Transportation/Car] UID:52925 Activity:nil
4/30    We should ban cars, too, because they kill!
        \_ Cars have significant utility to society.  And guess what, there's
           a ton a liscensing and registration needed to drive and own a car
           because they are so dangerous.
        \_ On a related note, I think the California DMV says driving is a
           priviledge and not a right.
2009/4/22-28 [Transportation/Car] UID:52890 Activity:nil
4/21    Ironic end to road rage
        \_ Darwin Award winner
           \_ She was menopausal already, so disqualified.
2009/4/7-13 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:52815 Activity:nil
4/7     A different kind of high-speed chase for stolen vehicles:
2009/3/31-4/6 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:52778 Activity:moderate
3/31    More proof that LA sux:
        \_ LA has the worst traffic jams in the nation, but also one of the most
           extensive public transit systems, very high usage, and is also
        \_ LA has the worst traffic jams in the nation, but also one of the
           most extensive public transit systems, very high usage, and is also
           one of the most dense urban areas in the US. -ERIC MORRIS
           \_ LA itself might be okay, but anytime you leave it, you're
              pretty much screwed. Public transit in the greater LA area is
              hardly extensive, but nor could you really expect it to be,
              cost-effectively anyway, for such a large area. Go sprawl.
                \_ LA is much less sprawling than most other urban areas.
                   If you consider the Bay Area as a whole, the two are
                   comparable. I have an insane coworker who was commuting
                   from Vacaville to San Jose for about 3 years, and finally
                   moved last month.
                   \_ How far is it from Encino to Redlands? LA is not less
                      sprawling than other urban areas.
                      \_ I didn't realize Redlands was part of LA. I think
                         the point the guy is making is that LA has some
                         very, very densely developed areas of the type that
                         do not exist in many American cities outside of NYC
                         and it will continue to get more dense as the
                         population swells. LA is very big but it is also
                         very dense if you look at the "urban area" versus
                         just the city proper. In fact, it is the most
                         dense urban area according to Wikipedia.
                         (I read it is the #3 most dense behind NYC and SF
                         according to another study, but the point is it is
                         *MUCH* more dense than typical for a large US city.)
                         population swells. LA is the 3rd most dense city
                         in the nation (behind NYC and SF) and has areas
                         more dense than SF (and just as dense as Manhattan).
                         So I would agree that LA is much less sprawling
                         than most other urban areas since it is ranked
                         #3. LA is very big but it is also denser than
                         cities like Dallas, Phoenix, Boston, Washington DC,
                         Atlanta, Philadelphia, and even Chicago when you look
                         at the "urban area" versus just the city proper.
                         Travel just outside the city limits of most cities
                         (including NYC) and the density really drops off
                         quickly even though a significant portion of the
                         population lives there. Not true in LA, which is
                         fairly densely developed throughout the county
                         and even into other counties. BTW, I fail to see how
                         taking the 9 million people not living in LA
                         and even into other counties. I fail to see how
                         taking the 11 million people not living in LA
                         proper and cramming them into LA proper "to make
                         it more dense" would improve the quality of life.
                         \_ Redlands is as much a "part of LA" as Vacaville
                            is a "part of San Francsisco." Reducing people's
                            commutes would improve their quality of life, but
                            obviously this could only work if there was enough
                            transit to move them around. Because not everyone
                            can drive a car everywhere in a dense urban area,
                            as Hong Kong and NYC already know and LA is
                            starting to find out.
                         \_ Redlands is at least as much a part of the LA
                            metro area as Vacaville is part of the Bay Area.
                            The idea that the Inland Empire is a seperate
                            metropolis is a joke and this is coming from a guy\
                            who was born in Riverside and still has family
                            metropolis is a joke and this is coming from a guy
                            who was born in Riverside and still has family
                            \_ Calling Vacaville a part of the Bay Area is
                               is a joke.
2009/3/23-30 [Transportation/Car] UID:52748 Activity:kinda low
3/23    My 98 Accord needs a new transmission, how much are we looking
        at for the entire job? $1500? $3000? Also, what's the difference
        between a rebuilt and remanufacturered transmission?
        \_ Just curious, what's wrong with your transmission?
           \_ First gear may or may not engage, depending on... luck and
              weather. Cold weather engages well, hot weather... my engine
              just revs.
              \_ I had similar problem with first gear engaging when I start
                 my car first thing in the morning. I got my transmission
                 rebuilt twice and still didn't fix the problem.  Then I told
                 my mechanic to replace the gear solenoid and that fixed it.
                 It was around $2100 to rebuild the transmission I think.
        \_ I don't know about the cost of new, but a lot of tranmission
           repair shops will rebuild an old one for anywhere in the price
           range above.
        \_ Don't buy a new tranmission. Find a transmission expert, go
           to a junk yard, take a transmission off a car of your model year
           for under $300, have the transmission expert install it.
           \_ "take a transmission off a car". Like, with a blow torch? sheesh.
              \_ It is not that hard, you just need some wrenches and a lot
                 of time.
2009/3/22-30 [Transportation/Car] UID:52742 Activity:nil
3/22    A good explaination of the toxic waste plan: (Economist's View)
        \- it is not clear to me there isnt some possibility of
           the treasury buying a "lemon" portfolio. to put in in
           terms of the EV article, say the govt comes in to buy
           half the cars on the lot, but the lot owner has some small
           ability to guess which are the "lemon" cars and disproportionately
           dumps those on the govt. the scenario reasonable points out the
           purpoe of the intervention is to prop up the community with
           the car dealership, rather than the car dealership itself,
           but as we know the car dealership may have an abiliy to tilt the
           govt to make other decision in it's own favor. what was good
           for <company X> might be been OK for america, but they arent
           the same ... and in some short run cases, when taking about
           certain decionsmakers it's not clear their objective function and
           social welfare outcomes would even ahve the same sign.
           \- We have now learned the words LIBOR, MORAL HAZARD and CLAWBACK.
              Here is the next word: ADVERSE SELECTION.
              \- oh, in addition to the LEMON PROBLEM, i could also see
                 a BARBARIAN AT THE GATE type scenario ... remember where
                 the people seeking to LBO a firm could hire current management
                 to advise them [how is this even legal? james suroweiki
                 has a good discussion of this, some time in the last two
                 years, i believe]. i could see a cabal of bank executives
                 put together a special purpose hedgefund to cherry-pick+
                 asset strip their firms ... sure this would have some
                 upside to the tax payers while they would massively
                 benefitting from their leveraged play, but then when the
                 companies are left with post cherry-picking LEMONS, the
                 govt will have to go out and bail them out again
                 ... at which point these executives will no doubt get
                 golden parachutes and leave. as we can see from AIG
                 ... Libby and Greenberg earlier, being a 7/8/9-digit
                 CEO doesnt mean you cant do some mean you cant do
                 some moonlighting: --psb
2009/3/21-30 [Transportation/Car] UID:52739 Activity:high
3/21    "From CEO to pizza man"
        "Ken Karpman went from making $750,000 a year to $7.29 an hour, plus
        I don't understand how a guy making $750k can go broke.  He probably
        spent all his fortune on fancy house, fancy cars, fancy vacation ...
        oh, and some fancy silicone on his wife.  (See 00:34 and 00:56.)
        \_ It's easy to go broke. More importantly, why is he working for
           minimum wage now? He's not unskilled worker.
           minimum wage now? He's not an unskilled worker.
           \- it's seems like some significantly rich people have spectacular
              levels of non-recoupable cash outflows ... if you buy a million
              dollar boat, you can sell it with a haircut, but all the money
              on docking fees, labor costs, yacht club memberships etc are
              gone forever. i knew a guy who was paying $14k-15k/mo in *rent*
              which is a reasonable fraction of your income even at $1m/yr.
              Although I agree this guy could probably come out further ahead
              by spending his evenings cutting expenses and liquidating
              property than delivering pizza.
              \_ Yeah, the outlays some of these guys maintain is pretty
                 surprising IMO.  I read "The millionarie next door" and a
                 number of the highly paid doctors and lawyers they surveyed
                 had less in assets than your average HS teacher.
                 \- Somebody has to buy $3000 dresses.
                 \_ Life is about living, not about dying with the most $$$
                    \- living != buying shit
                    in your checking account. I'd rather be a broke doctor
                    who eats at good restaurants, travels around the world,
                    and drives a Porsche than one of those teachers who
                    has $300K in the bank and has a more-than-boring life
                    in order to save that much $$$ on $50K/year. A lot of
                    people in the Midwest and South have lots of savings
                    because their expenses are cheap and they don't do
                    anything exciting and don't buy anything nice. Does
                    that sound like a win to you? To some it might, but
                    not to me.
                    \_ Geez, talk about a false dicotomy.  Saving some of
                       your money for later is not the same as becoming a
                       hermit.  If nothing else, everyone retires eventually,
                       if you have a decent job and have no assets, you're
                       an idiot. (Sans some REALLY good excuse.)     Anyway,
                       Travelling around the world is nice, but most of the
                       things people spend big bucks on are completely
                       retarded.  I'd rather have a nest egg I can fall back
                       on than yacht club fees and $3000 dresses.  Those
                       aren't 'living' they're just attempts to show up other
                       people, which is just dumb.
                       \_ I can't tell you how much I disagree with you.
                          We're not talking about 'not saving'. We're talking
                          about how a teacher could have more savings than a
                          doctor. The only way to do that is to save A LOT.
                          I would argue TOO MUCH. I don't want to wait
                          until I retire to enjoy life. I'd rather enjoy
                          life as I go. I might not live until retirement.
                          Boating is a lot of fun and that you think it's
                          somehow an attempt to show people up says a lot
                          about you. I am not advocating not saving at all.
                          What I am saying is that given a choice between
                          5% saving and 50% saving I'd err on the side of
                          5% and enjoy life. I know a lot of people of modest
                          means sitting on big piles of cash who never go
                          anywhere, buy anything, or enjoy themselves because
                          they don't know any different from the small town
                          lifestyle their parents and grandparents lived. I
                          think *that* is stupid. What are they waiting for?
                          Death? Their kids will be the ones to benefit.
                          \_ Not everyone thinks this is a bad thing.
                             \_ Which is why I said: "To some it might, but not
                                to me". I want the last check I write to
                          \_ I, for one, am planning to live and still be
                             active into my 70's which should be quite
                             possible looking at relatives.  Having some
                             money saved up can give you a lot of freedom
                             and options.  You don't have to be worried about
                             monthly budgets and you can get/do something
                             expensive if you feel like it.  You can invest and
                             potentially secure a supplemental income and
                             retire earlier, or work less.
                             Things are different for doctors.  They are
                             already rich.  Their earnings future is
                             guaranteed to be way better than the school
                             teacher.  It's more secure than most other
                             high paying jobs.  They can work like 2 days
                             a week and still live decently.
                             Spending a lot of money on things won't
                             necessarily mean you'll enjoy life more.
                             \_ Saving more doesn't mean you will enjoy
                                life more either and it's more likely you
                                will enjoy life less given that $$$ in the
                                bank doesn't do you any good until you
                                spend it. Last time I bought a car I spent
                                $50K. I thought: "I should just buy a used
                                car and save money. That makes sense. What
                                would I do if I had $50K in the bank right
                                now? I'd buy a nice car. Oh, that settles
                                it." I am not advocating no savings,
                                because that is obviously stupid. I think
                                you must strike a balance, though. It
                                would suck to put off doing things "until I
                                retire" and then die in a car wreck next
                                week. Save at a reasonable rate, something
                                like 10-15%, and enjoy life. I have a
                                friend who made $30M last year when he
                                left his old company (stock options). $30M!
                                What did he do? Get another job right
                                away. Stupid. Enjoy life. I can understand
                                wanting to work. I enjoy work. However,
                                his main concern was medical expenses
                                wiping him out and that his wife will get
                                1/3 if she leaves him (they are very happy
                                and there is no sign of that). It's not good to
                                always worry about money when you are secure,
                                like most doctors are.
                                \_ Well cars are particularly a waste of money
                                   to me.  A car is not something I want to
                                   be working for.  Driving a fancy car isn't
                                   living better to me.  It does impress the
                                   ladies though, maybe that is worth it?
                                   It's kind of like buying fancy clothes.  I
                                   doubt most men enjoy the fancy clothes, but
                                   they enjoy how it looks to others.
                                   \_ An expensive car is generally safer and
                                      drives better. I am miserable
                                      driving a POS car now (like when I
                                      have to rent). To me it improves my
                                      quality of life to have a car I like
                                      to drive when I have to drive. It's
                                      not about impressing others. I had a
                                      friend with an old car that always
                                      broke down and she was afraid to go
                                      anywhere far from home and it really
                                      affected her life. She finally broke
                                      down and got a new car and she won't
                                      admit it, but it made her life a lot
                                      better knowing that she could drive
                                      through a sketchy part of town at night
                                      and not break down or take a day
                                      trip somewhere without having to
                                      arrange for a rental.
                                      \_ The utility of a car that works is
                                         pretty much infinitely greater than
                                         one that doesn't work. The utility of
                                         a fancy car over a honda is no where
                                         near that great.
                                         \_ The price of a fancy car over
                                            an Accord isn't that different
                                            either. $31K for a
                                            top-of-the-line Accord versus
                                            $31K for a BMW 328i or $35K for a
                                            Lexus ES350, for instance. Where
                                            you really save money is by buying
                                            an older used car (late model costs
                                            almost the same as new), but then
                                            you have the potential 'doesn't
                                            work' problem. My BMW, when it
                                            was new, cost $170/month more
                                            than my Honda Accord. People spend
                                            that much on stuff like cable TV
                                            (which I don't have) or movies
                                            (which I don't go to), but the BMW
                                            drives about 10X better even if
                                            the utility is the same. To be
                                            honest, I don't even think the
                                            utility is the same. I feel my
                                            BMW has helped me avoid several
                                            accidents I would not have been
                                            able to avoid in a Corolla with
                                            superior handling, acceleration,
                                            and braking capability. I feel
                                            unsafe in many other cars. I
                                            think a lot of people who never
                                            drive a nicer car don't appreciate
                                            the difference and maybe it's
                                            better that way (for them) because
                                            it's hard to go back to a minivan
                                            after driving a good car.
                                            \_ I dont recall whether DKAHNEMAN
                                               did this study or just cites it,
                                               but "studies show", if you ask
                                               people "how much do you like
                                               your car", there is a correl-
                                               ation to the price. However, if
                                               you ask them "how much do you
                                               like/disklike your commute?"
                                               [generally one of the least
                                               liked activities], there is no
                                               correlation [once you hit the
                                               "reliable" threashold].
                                               So expensive cars pay off when
                                               corr [once you hit "reliable"
                                               threashold], there is no corr...
                                               so expensive cars pay off when
                                               THINKING about how much you
                                               like your car, but not so much
                                               when USING it. If you can get
                                               ahold of these two lecture from
                                               2007, they are very, very good:
                                                Note this is a study measuring
                                                happiness and satisifaction, so
                                                safety stuff is somewhat out-
                                                side its scope. --psb
                          \_ No, we're talking about doctors and lawyers who
                             manage to waste so much money THEY fall below
                             "average" teachers.
                             \_ Let's be realistic. A doctor makes 5x what
                                a teacher does and disposable income is
                                probably > 5x more. Even if the doctor
                                saves 3% he's probably accumulating more $$$
                                than a teacher socking away 15-20% when
                                you account for his home appreciating, his
                                higher social security payments, etc. For
                                a doctor to fall below the average savings
                                rate of, let's be generous and say 5%, that an
                                average teacher saves means he is saving less
                                than 1% of his income each and every year.
                                I'm sure it happens (I've had years with
                                negative savings) but get real.
                                \_ cont'd
                                I have an acquaintance (not the one above) who
                                is a multimillionaire. He is not educated and
                                made his money in air conditioning and by
                                saving and buying rental properties as he
                                could from his (decent but not MD level)
                                salary. I went to Las Vegas with him and
                                we stayed at a scary place off the strip
                                with roaches and hookers. We ate at a
                                McDonald's that didn't have anything in
                                stock and was filthy (I have to imagine
                                corporate was horrified). Then, we ate
                                there again the next day with his other
                                multimillionaire couple friends. When I
                                complained that it was unsanitary and they
                                didn't have basic items in stock he relented
                                and we went to IHOP. The three people
                                eating with me were worth millions of
                                dollars. I, personally, think that's retarded.
                                I have seen this happen almost as often as
                                the "maxed out on credit cards and buying
                                the big screen TV" lifestyle and I think I
                                prefer the latter because at least it is
                                insect-free and I won't get a disease.
                                What was the advantage of having $5M cash
                                in the bank and $5M in properties if you
                                can't spend more than $30 for a hotel
                                while on *vacation* in Las Vegas? But
                                think of the $$$ he saved over Bellagio!
                                \_ This is how a real multimillionaire parties:
                                \_ No way a GP makes 5X a teacher, more like
                                   3X. But in any case, saving lots now means
                                   retiring at 50 for me, which is worth a
                                   lot of sacrifice for me now. But I am not
                                   a teacher, our combined family income is
                                   lot of sacrifice to me.  But I am not a
                                   teacher, our combined family income is
                                   more like an MD, so I can have what I want,
                                   which includes shopping at Whole Foods and
                                   $20 bottles of wine with dinner and some
                                   vacations, but we still save something like
                                   vacations, but still save something like
                                   30% of our take home pay.
                                   \_ The median GP is 3X a teacher, but there
                                      is more variation about the mean.
                                      GPs are also not representative of
                                      class {physician}. Most "GPs" these
                                      days are internal medicine specialists.
                                      If you want to retire at 50 that sounds
                                      great if you can live a better lifestyle
                                      than you do now.  Otherwise, I'll pass.
                                      \_ I'd rather take the bus down to the
                                         pier and crew on someone elses sailboat
                                         all day at 50 then drive my $50k car
                                         to the office and work all day, but
                                         each to their own.
                                         \_ Whatever floats your boat. Why
                                            not just crew now? You can get
                                            paid for it, too.
                                            \_ Can't pay for a mortgage in SF
                                               and school for two kids on that
                                               \_ So we all pick our poison.
                                      \_ Internal medicine (and family practice)
                                         docs get paid the same as GPs, right?
                                         \_ No. Internal medicine is a
                                            specialty. Why would a doctor
                                            waste time with that if it
                                            paid the same as a GP?
                                            \_ I don't think you understand
                                               medicine very well, actually.
2022/06/30 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2009/3/10-17 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:52698 Activity:very high
3/10    Are there many JD, MBA, MDs who read MOTD? Currently below, there is
        one person claiming to be a lawyer and another mentions an MBA...
        Also, is it proper to preface MOTD with a preposition (e.g. the motd)?
        \_ I don't know if there are many JDs who read the MOTD, but I do. I
           think there is one MBA from INSEAD who reads the MOTD.  I don't
           know about MDs, but if my brother gets into med school next year
           there might be one.
        Also, is it proper to preface MOTD with a preposition (e.g. the motd)?
        \_ "the" is an article, not a preposition, and yes, the MOTD deserves
           an article.  -tom
           \_ Thanks (for the grammar correction and MOTD rules). It's like
              The 405...
              \_ no, it's not like "the 405", which is an awful LA
                 construction (literally and linguistically).  MOTD
                 stands for Message Of The Day, so it's incorrect to say
                 "Are there people who read MOTD," which expands to
                 "Are there people who read message of the day?"  -tom
                 \_ You say "gins and tonic", don't you?
                 \_ "the" is also used in Canada and England. e.g. The M1.
                    \_ Well, "The M1 Motorway" is the name of it.  The name of
                       280 is not "The 280 Freeway", it's Interstate 280.
                       There's also no other 280 around to confuse it with.
                       You don't put "the" on other road names so why do it
                       for freeways?  e.g. 1st street "the 1st street".  We
                       do say stuff like  Highway 1 or Route 1 though, or I-80.
                       Those actually make sense, unlike "the".
                       \_ The 10 freeway is the Santa Monica Freeway. The
                          405 is the San Diego Freeway. It's retarded to
                          call the 405 "Interstate 405" and immediately
                          brands you a putz.
                          \_ not as retarded as calling it "the 405".
                             \_ Since The 405 is an LA freeway, that's the
                                appropriate designation. It's The 405,
                                80, 280, etc, and I-5 (because that's in both
                                noCal and soCal). If you said "take 405 to 101"
                                in LA, you'd sound like a FOB who says things
                                like "have you read message of the day?"
                                \_ It is certainly the case that we use
                                   dialect to identify clan membership.  David
                                   Foster Wallace had an interesting article
                                   (partly) on that point:
                                   But it's also the case that "the 405" is
                                   stupid.  -tom
                                   \_ Sorry, but it's not. If you say "Take
                                      405 freeway to 10 freeway" then that's
                                      stupid. You need the article just
                                      like if you say "Take the San Diego
                                      Freeway to the Santa Monica Freeway".
                                      Maybe it's not what your used to, but
                                      it's completely correct and makes
                                      complete sense. You can always tell
                                      someone new to California (not just
                                      LA) when they ask "How do I get on
                                      the Interstate from here?" (guffaw)
                                      \_ I say stuff like "take 80 to 980"
                                         all the time.  Just like I say
                                         "Go down 18th and turn on
                                         Mission."  You would never say
                                         "Go down the 18th" now would you?
                                         \_ No, I wouldn't. However,
                                            "take 80 freeway to 980
                                            freeway" sounds stupid does it
                                      \_ It's not called "the 10 freeway."
                                         It's called 10, or Route 10,
                                         or Interstate Highway 10.  -tom
                                         \_ Only on Planet Tom is it not
                                            called "the 10 freeway". It is
                                            called that because it descends
                                            from "the Santa Monica Freeway".
                                            It is sometimes called I-10
                                            and when it is "the" is not used.
                                            However, when "the" is used it
                                            is used because it makes sense
                                            to use it as in "the 10 freeway".
                                            It is never referred to as 10,
                                            Highway 10, or Route 10 and
                                            none of those are official
                                            designations. Official designation
                                            is Interstate 10 and I addressed
                                            that case.
                                            \_ I drove 10 all the way across
                                               the country, and nowhere other
                                               than LA does anyone call it
                                               "the 10," and no one anywher
                                               calls it "the 10 freeway." -tom
                                            \_ I drove 10 all the way
                                               across the country, and
                                               nowhere other than LA
                                               does anyone call it
                                               "the 10," and no one
                                               anywhere calls it "the
                                               10 freeway." -tom
                                               \_ 1. People in LA do call it
                                                     "the 10 freeway".
                                                  2. The reason no one
                                                     anywhere else uses
                                                     "the" is because they
                                                     do not use names for
                                                     it like "Santa Monica
                                                     Freeway" and
                                                     "San Bernardino Freeway"!
                                                     Don't you get it? Hell,
                                                     in most of the rest
                                                     of the country they
                                                     don't even call such
                                                     highways "freeways",
                                                     but we do and it's
                                                     completely correct to
                                                     do so. Next you will
                                                     be saying that it's
                                                     not soda, but pop
                                                     because you heard
                                                     people in Missouri
                                                     call it that.
                                                     \_ 1. It's completely
                                                        stupid to call it
                                                        "the 10 freeway" and
                                                        I've never heard anyone
                                                        say that.
                                                        \_ It is not stupid and
                                                           you don't hear it
                                                           because you live in
                                                           a bubble in
                                                           Berkeley. What
                                                           is stupid about
                                                           \_ As explained
                                                              above, it makes
                                                              no logical
                                                              sense.  -tom
                                                        2. You're completely
                                                        wrong that other
                                                        places in the country
                                                        don't have local names
                                                        for I-10.  Look at the
                                                        wikipedia page.
                                                        \_ I didn't say they
                                                           didn't. However,
                                                           I bet they use
                                                           "the" if they use
                                                           them followed by
                                                           the word "freeway".
                                                        3. People everywhere
                                                        other than LA manage
                                                        to have local names
                                                        for highways, and
                                                        don't use "the" in
                                                        front of the number.
                  Several commenters here says that "the" is used in Canada.
                                                         \_ People elsewhere
                                                            manage to call
                                                            "soda" "pop", too.
                                                            Is that also
                                                            \_ That's a
                                                               not gramatically
                                                               illogical, like
                                                               "the 405" is.
                                                               \_ "the 405"
                                                                  is short
                                                                  for "the
                                                                  405 freeway"
                                                                  which is
                                                         \-arent you from
                                                           NJ, home of
                                                           "the (new jersey)
                                                           turnpike" and "the
                                                           pip", near
                                                           "the long island
                                                           expressway" (sic)
                                                           "the LIE"
                                                           [and the maj degan,
                                                            the cross bronx]
                                                           the cross bronx etc]
                                                           i personally like
                                                           the "the". what i
                                                           hate is "internet"
                                                           without the "the"
                                                           and "maths" instead
                                                           of "math". --psb
                                                           of "math". for fwys
                                                           i use kind of an
                                                           ideosyncratic system.
                                                           for bay area fwys
                                                           i'd say "the 101"
                                                           but normally leave
                                                           off "the" on others.
                                                           system. for bay
                                                           area fwys i'd say
                                                           "the 101" but
                                                           normally leave off
                                                           "the" on others.
                                                           \_ "The Turnpike"
                                                              is the name of
                                                              the road.  It's
                                                              also I-95, and
                                                              no one calls it
                                                              "the 95."  -tom
                                                              \_ Because it is
                                                                 not "the 95
                                                                 Do you say
                                                                 "get on
                                                                 freeway" or
                                                                 "get on the
                                                                 BTW, "maths"
                                                                 annoys me, too.
                                                                 annoys me,
        \_ I was watching Season 5 of 24 last night and the Russians kept using
           "the" in front of freeways (e.g. the 118). But they were in LA and
           the writers probably live in LA.
         \_ "Are there people who read the Wired?" vs. "Are there people who
            read Wired?" <-depends on whether you deem MOTD to be a designation
            or the title of /etc/motd.public. Either way, you shouldn't be
            reading Wired, that rag.
        \_ PhDs are a dime a dozen on the motd.
           \_ You think a dozen people are reading the motd?
              \_ Yeah, about 20 or so.
        \_ Thank you for wasting 10 minutes of my life reading about
           '405' and 'the 405' on the motd.  get lives, all of your. !the tom
           \_ Not as annoying as Star Wars guy, but not as exciting as
              Bitter Divorced Guy.
2009/3/3-11 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:52669 Activity:nil
3/3     "Stimulus bill increases transit tax benefit for commuters"
        "The law raises the amount of pretax income that workers enrolled in
        employer-sponsored commuter benefits programs can use to pay for mass
        transit -- from $120 per month to $230 per month."
        \_ pity they encumber the EZRider program such that its difficult to
           pay for BART fares via EZrider with employer-sponsored commuter
2009/2/23-26 [Transportation/Car] UID:52624 Activity:moderate
2/23    Three Chinese people on the HEADLINE of (finally!).
        Unfortunately, it's bad news. Moral of the story: killing 3
        lives is only worth 34 years in prison.
        \_ Actually, the dude had already killed two others.  I don't
           understand why he was allowed to drive either.
           \_ that question is best answered by sympathetic jurors.
           \_ There's no guarantee he wouldn't drive just because he
              "wasn't allowed to".  It said he had no insurance...
              is that allowed in Ohio?  Shit happens.
              \_ Apparenlty he had a licence.
                 \_ That doesn't mean it's legal to drive.
                    Although, the minimum $ insurance and the penalties look
                    pretty wimpy.
                    Anyway, maybe parents shouldn't mortgage themselves
                    like crazy investing in their kid.  Not only might this
                    happen but it seems like a huge burden to put on the kid.
                    \_ Maybe, but they only have 1 kid, and probably don't
                       trust the govt. to deliver on the pensions...
        \_ "Only" 34 years?  Dude.
           \_ OJ Simpson got nothing. So relatively speaking...
        \_ This Skaggs person should be rendered down for parts and
           sold on the organ market, and the $$ given to his
           victim's families.
        \_ I gotta say, Skaggs is a great name for a random jerkwad.
        \_ I vaguely remember there was an old guy who drove his car into
           a farmer's market & killed whole bunch people back then.
           all he got was a slap on the wrist, no?
           \_ George Weller in Santa Monica. And yes only a slap on the
              wrist. First of all he's old and doesn't know what the heck
              is going on, what good is it to jail him? Secondly, everyone
              in LA needs to drive, even the old guys, so if you doom this
              guy, you'll doom a bunch of Angelenos. The gloves don't
              fit, you gotta acquit!
              \_ Nobody walks in LA.
                 \_ There's nowhere to walk to in LA.
2009/1/6-9 [Transportation/Car] UID:52325 Activity:low
1/6     Teens tape fake license plates to their cars and purposely zoom
        by speed cameras.  Someone else gets the ticket in the mail:
        \_"It is unfortunate that kids have a lot of time on their hands that th\
ey can think of doing such a thing."
        \_"It is unfortunate that kids have a lot of time on their hands that
           they can think of doing such a thing."
           Yeah, we should keep kids chained in the salt mines all day.
           Hopefully that will keep them stupid as well as occupied.
           \_ Saltpetre mines, you mean.
           \_ we should send them to recover the Holy Land, for all good
2008/12/18-2009/1/2 [Transportation/Car] UID:52269 Activity:nil
12/17   Chrysler halts production. It's not like anyone I know in N Cal
        actually drives one.
        \_ they still own lamborghini?
        \_ not like everyone i know in N Cal drives
           \_ hasn't stopped them from begging for rides
        \_ It's called a "Dodge" for you.
        \_ Dodge and Plymouth all over N.Cal, but then again I don't
           consider the Bay Area N. Cal.
           \_ The only people I know who buy those kind of cars are
              blue collar workers or those who are uneducated. My
              provider Tracy the stripper drives a cheap Plymouth. Sorry
               \_ "provider tracy the stripper". what does she provide?
              but all my college friends drive Japanese or German cars.
              \_ Wow, a little classist are we?  (And you forgot the
                 occasional Ford, followed by 4 years of "why the fuck
                 was I so stupid?")
                 \_ I have never regretted my 1967 mustang hardtop.
                  \_ There is a special place in hell for idiots who buy
                     cars older than they are.
                     \_ VIP lounge, where all the hottie sluts hang out
                     \_ zomg UNDEAD WARLOCK
                        \_ OH NOES NERF
                           \_ our nerfs will block out the sun..-blizzard
                              ... then we will fight in the shade. -lock
               \_ Plymouth brand was dropped years ago. (2001)
                  Dodge and Jeep (Chrysler corp) are fairly common.  I think
                  Chrysler should be killed though if possible.  Ford is
                  actually a decent company, they have Mazda, are competitive
                  in Europe, have the best financial situation, have had the
                  bestselling truck for decades, etc.  Ford at least has done
                  well in the past with stuff like the Taurus and the Focus,
                  unlike GM.  GM is pretty bad but even they have certain
                  bright spots (they do well in China apparently).
                  GM is pretty crappy though, not that the quality is
                  necessarily bad but their product introductions are sloooow.
                  They also have a mess of redundant brands and need serious
                  restructuring.  They also have a brand image problem after
                  years of trying to push crappy products with heavy marketing.
                  \_ Ford was nice and turned down the bridge loan.
                  \_ I'd love to see ford (and for that matter gm) go back
                     to building nice classic cars of limited production.
                     '58 vette is beautiful- they can exist like that, way
                     '69 vette is beautiful- they can exist like that, way
                     smaller than they were before.  Retool their factories to
                     build military vehicles and public transit vehicles.
                     \_ god wtf are these people taking their designs from
                        the movie "Cars"
        \_ The auto companies always halt production over Christmas/New Years
           \_ For two weeks, not a month.
2008/12/12 [Transportation/Car] UID:52240 Activity:high
12/12   Lots of good things happening as people drive less:
2008/12/9-14 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:52215 Activity:kinda low
12/9    I have what is likely a very basic (and possibly stupid) question.
    Do the current financial troubles of the big 3 auto makers
    just happen to coincide with the horrible economy we have,
    or is it resulting from it? Thanks.
        \_ They were already troubled, but not irreparably in the
           previous environment. The current environment has made things
           much worse.
        \_ GM is an unmanagable leviathan which has been in decline for 30 years.
           Its debt was downgraded to junk status _last_year_ after they lost
           $39 billion. The downturn would merely pull the plug on this vegetable.
        \_ GM is an unmanagable leviathan which has been in decline for 30
           years. Its debt was downgraded to junk status _last_year_ after
           they lost $39 billion. The downturn would merely pull the plug
           on this vegetable.
        \_ The Economist ran a story about the End of the Car Giants, which I
           unfortunately cannot find right now. They said their business model
           was basically broken and that they were going to wither away. This
           was about three years ago.
2008/12/4-8 [Transportation/Car] UID:52164 Activity:nil
12/4    "Even in Michigan, Not Everyone Wants a Lifeline" (
        \_ I'm curious: why so much discussion and public gnashing of teeth
           about a little bailout for the automakers, when a ginormous bailout
           for the banks was barely even discussed?
           \- because the narrative is "investment bankers are masters of
              the universe" and "american autoworks are lazy and overpaid".
           \_ How about banks are critical to the functioning of the economy,
              and the auto makers are not.
           \_ How about you still get to keep your goods (you still have the
              car and it still runs) when auto makers go bankcrupt?   You lose
              the warranty and any pre-paid maintenance visits, but those are
              small compared to the car.
2008/11/24 [Transportation/Car] UID:52087 Activity:kinda low
11/22   Have you guys noticed an absence of car commercials these days?
        Bahahahahahahaha.                               -bike loving hippy
        \_ Are you high? It seemed like there were nothing _but_ car
           commercials on Monday when I was watching Heroes.
           \_ Heroes is basically one giant car ad.
              \_ Rats, I was hoping you'd make "have to be high to
                 understand Heroes" gag.
              \_ Actually, that would be Knight Rider.
        \_ Football is all car and truck and beer ads, as usual.
2008/11/20-27 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Tax] UID:52057 Activity:nil
11/20   "Far from vanishing, many of GM’s assets would be quickly purchased
        by competent foreign automakers eager to expand their capacity in what
        is the world’s largest auto market. Happily, the list of well-run car
        companies, from Toyota to Nissan to Porsche, is long."
        big FAT LOLZ there.  When GM closes up, GM's factories are going to
        go idle and rust and provide excellent opporunities for hipster
        dumbasses who love breaking into buildings to photograph our
        crumbling industrial past glory.  Those jobs are not coming back, EVER.
        \_ GM is a modestly profitable car company with a huge losing pension
           fund attached. In bankruptcy, they will be able to dump the
           pension liabilities onto the government and return profitable.
           \_ which I would argue this is a sure sign of incompetitiveness of
              USA as a whole.  Then again, if Pension were funded properly,
              shouldn't be a problem.  My guess is that during the go-go days,
              GM decided to use the pension contribution and count it as profit.
              GM decided to use the pension contribution and count it as
              \_ No, it is mostly an artifact of the fact that we push health
                 care costs onto private employers, while that cost is borne
                 by The State for GMs competitors. Even offloading all the
                 pensioners healthcare costs alone would make GM profitable.
                 The GM management (and unions) decided to forstall a bunch
                 of labor issues in the 70's by increasing benefits, which we
                 are paying the price of now, but no one could have reasonably
                 expected health care costs to increase at 7%/yr for 30 years.
                 \_ not just the 70s and not just GM.  This happened with a lot
                    of city/county governmental orgs as well.  The contra costa
                    county school district is going to be bankrupt due to
                    quickly increasing pension/medical benifits for retired
                    quickly increasing pension/medical benefits for retired
                 \_ Of course, those evil socialist countries fund health
                    care by TAXES on corporations.  But we could never tax
                    corporations here, because that would make us
                    uncompetitive.  Or so goes the corpratist line.  -tom
                    \_ Right, because corporations here don't pay any taxes
                       ever. There's no way an evil corporation like
                       XOM would pay any tax.
                        \_ That statement is becoming more true every year.
                           In the 50s, 1/3 the federal tax revenue came from
                           corporations, today it's 7% and still dropping.
                           Assuming the corporists that run the government
                           continue their successfuly campaign to eliminate
                           taxes on corporations whenever possible, it's
                           conceivable that will go down to 0% in a decade
                           or two. -!tom
2008/11/19-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:52049 Activity:kinda low
11/19   if someone gave you a new GM car, would you take it?
        \_ Do I have to pay taxes on it?
        \_ If it was a corvette, almost certainly (even if I had to pay tax).
           \_ I think this is precisely the point.  I'm sorry, but problem with
              GM is NOT the current financial crisis.  They have not be able
                to make attractive AND reliable product for decades.
                I am in China right now, and I see *PLENTY* of small, fuel
                efficient car made by GM.  I just don't understand why don't
                they just import those back to US again.
              to make attractive AND reliable product for decades. I am in
              China right now, and I see *PLENTY* of small, fuel efficient car
              made by GM.  I just don't understand why don't they just import
              those back to US again.
                \_ Maybe those cars can only get one star in NHTSA crash tests.
                   \_ and that is not GM's problem?  GM should of made their car
                      globally accessable a long time ago.
                   \_ and that is not GM's problem?  GM should of made their
                      car globally accessable a long time ago.
                      \_ Yes it would be GM's problem.  I'm just saying that
                         this might be GM's reason for not importing those cars
                         back to the US.  -- PP
              \_ The other part of the problem is that no matter how good and
                 attractive GM cars may be, there are plenty of people who
                 "bought American" to be supportive and patriotic at some
                 point and got stuck with lemons. If you've ever bought a
                 bad car, you're very likely to never buy that manufacturer's
                 cars again. Similarly for friends of people who have
                 bought lemons.
                 \_ Is this like when I date white women?
                    \_ Exactly. White women are like American sportscars.
                       They're fast and fun in the beginning but they give
                       you a lot of problems down the road. Asian women
                       on the other hand are like Japanese sportscars.
                       They're not as wild and loud as American sportscars
                       but they sure last a long time.
2008/11/19-23 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Jobs] UID:52041 Activity:nil
11/19   Toyota to lay off temporary workers in US.  are we screwed now?
        \_ When GM goes under, they'll rehire them.
        \_ HAN: (over speaker) Now let's blow this thing and go home!
           \_ I know you don't believe in technical indicators, but today
              the S&P 500 very nicely bounced off of its Oct 2002 low.
2008/11/13-26 [Transportation/Car] UID:51959 Activity:kinda low
11/13   I think the American automobile companies and all of the companies
        that depend on them and all of the employees and retirees who depend
        on these companies are going to go bankrupt.  We are truly screwed.
        "lulz".  Any suggestions of where I should move?
        \_ liquidation or restructuring bankruptcy?
           \_ probably restructuring bankruptcy.  but this is at best a lame
              stopgap measure.  people aren't buying GM cars NOW.  people
        \_ Here is something I don't understand.  GM / Ford's biggest problem
           is that they simply are not making cars that people want.  I just
           fail to see how borrow money from Government is going to change
           any of that.
              will not wake up one day and desire to buy GM products MORE
              during or after the bankruptcy unless something amazing happens.
              they're screwed.  I'm going to go climb in my 32 mph Honda
              Accord now.
              \_ You mean mpg?
              \_ You mean 32 mpg?
        \_ Can i have your stuff when you leave?
                 \_ You haven't seen my honda, lulz.
        \_ Here is something I don't understand.  GM / Ford's biggest problem
           is that they simply are not making cars that people want.  I just
           fail to see how borrow money from Government is going to change
           fail to see how borrowing money from Government is going to change
           any of that.
2008/11/4-5 [Transportation/Car] UID:51818 Activity:nil
11/4    On average, do Amercians cover more miles during daily commutes or
        during travelling (business trips, vacation, etc.)?  Any stats on
        these?  Thanks.
        \_ I don't have stats but I remember that commute to work is about
           93%. The number of you miles you accumulate during your vacation
           is nothing compared to your typical 260 day/year * (mileage).
           For example, if I commute 12 miles one way, then each year
           I rack up 260*12*2 = 6240 miles. That's nothing compared to
           the once a year S Cal N Cal trip I make (1000 miles at most).
           \_ Thx.  Then I'll vote No on Prop 1.
              \_ You mean 1A?
                 \_ It's 11:59PM. Looks like Prop 1A is going to pass.
                    Yay! We're finally going to get a real railroad...
                    IN TWENTY YEARS.
              \_ Voting no based on this metric seems pretty silly.
        \_ I take a company shuttle to work each day (~100 miles) but fly
           down to LA almost every week (~800 miles). I do it for pleasure
           but a lot of my coworkers fly up and down to LA weekly for work.
2008/11/3-4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:51802 Activity:kinda low 50%like:51793
11/3    Here's a gas/diesel/biodiesel/ethanol/vegatable-oil + compressed-air
        hybrid, with plug-in capability:
        "Air Cars: A New Wind for America's Roads?" (
        - 60 miles at 35mph on one plug-in "recharge" alone.
        - 800 miles at freeway speed on one tank of gas/diesel/whatever alone
        \_ And of course it's ridiculously tiny and impractical.  Guess what,
           a tiny ass car like that with just a plain ol' gas engine would
           already get great mileage.
           \_ The Smart ForTwo doesn't get gas mileage anywhere close to this.
              In fact it doesn't even have better gas mileage than the Prius.
              \_ The Smart is bigger than this thing, can carry luggage, and
                 actually meets safety and performance standards.
                 "can be driven up to 70 km/hr" (43mph)
                 The car has 5.45 hp "maximum".  This is basically a golf cart.
2008/11/1-3 [Transportation/Car] UID:51776 Activity:kinda low
11/1    Seriously considering buying a 2009 Honda Fit. Thoughts?
        \_ It appeals to people today the way it did with the Civic
           many years ago.
        \_ Highly recommended - by far the best of the new econoboxes.
           It's what Hondas used to be before they all got on the juice.
           My biggest objection to the old Fit, the lack of a left side
           footrest, has been addressed in the '09.  The only trouble
           the Fit has is a somewhat alarming blindspot at 45 degree
           angles from the driver's viewpoint caused by rather large A
           pillars.  This is only an issue if you're over 6' tall though.
           I recommend a test drive to see how it "fits" you.
           \_ Superb, thank you. I happen to be very tall, but I didn't
              the blind spot much worse than, say, that of a Mazda 5.
2008/10/22 [Transportation/Car] UID:51625 Activity:moderate
10/22   wow
        \_ How could a mere sedan set a loaded big-rig tanker into a spin,
           especially that it was a rear-end collision instead of a
           \_ The sedan spun, the rig overturned (probably jackknifed).
2008/10/6-9 [Transportation/Car] UID:51403 Activity:kinda low
10/6    Why is drafting behind semi trucks dangerous?  I'm thinking it's not
        dangerous because my car's brakes should perform better than the
        semi's.  So if the semi hard-brakes for whatever reason, my car should
        be able to slow down quickly enough.  OTOH I think a semi following me
        is more dangerous, because if I hard-brake, the semi probably can't
        slow down quickly enough.
        \_ Trucker is higher than you, and can see danger up ahead, while
           blocking YOUR view of the road ahead.  He can react.  If he reacts,
           you have a high risk of getting in an accident.  Don't tailgate
           big trucks.
        \_ Because you can't see around the truck, your reflexes are not
           as good as think they are, the truck is wide enough that an
           emergency swerve around the truck is harder, and if you it
           emergency swerve around the truck is harder, and if you hit
           a truck at speed you pretty much go splat.
        \_ Truckers hate it when you do this. -son of a Truck Driver
           \_ Did your parent explain why?  Thx.  -- OP
              \_ obviously because you are a low visibility
                 tailgater and are now yet another variable
                 in their "defensive driving". no doubt also
                 truckers are irritated when they keep extra
                 braking distance between themselves and the
                 car in front and other aggressively cut in
                 front into the gaps. i have sympathy for
                 truckers. but not for say people driving other
                 low-vis vehicles like humvees ... i am a lot
                 less likely to let one merge in front of me.
                 \_ Roger that. -TDS
           \_ Having seen cars squashed by trucks, I'm not interested in saving
              a few gallons.
        \_ I totally support drafting behind trunks. FIRST you'll save
           a lot of gas and save the environment. SECOND if you die
           doing so you'll stop polluting the environment completely
           as well as erasing your dumb gene. Go for it.
2008/10/5-9 [Transportation/Car] UID:51387 Activity:nil
10/5 (Yahoo! News)
        "... Venezuela, where gasoline goes for 12 cents a gallon."
        Now do you still want to commute in gas guzzlers and feed their
2008/9/25-30 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:51304 Activity:nil
9/25    "BART gets an equivalent to 249 miles per gallon during the peak
        commute hours."
        \_ I assume that 249 miles per person per gallon,  which means my
           carpool gets 120.
           \_ That's correct.  My carpool of two on a Prius only gets 102. --OP
        \_ Do they publish their data?  What's the MPG during off-peak?
           What's the total MPG for all operational hours?
           \_ According to they use 300 GW/year of energy, at
              a cost of $31 million; according to they carry
              1.3 billion passenger miles a year.  If gas is $3.80 a gallon,
              then that's the cost equivalent of 160 person miles/gallon.  I'd
              like to know the pollution equivalent, too, but that sounds like
              more work to calculate.
              then that's the cost equivalent of 160 person miles/gallon
              overall.  Anyone want to calculate the pollution equivalent?
2008/9/20-23 [Transportation/Car] UID:51245 Activity:nil
9/20    I noticed that when I use Google, some browsers give me auto
        suggestions and some browsers don't. How do I enable auto
        suggestions for all of the browsers I use? Thanks.    -noob
2008/9/18-19 [Transportation/Car] UID:51219 Activity:nil
9/18    Daily Show economist here.  Is it true AIG tried to clear up its
        problems by lending itself money?
        \_ AIG has an exciting financial investments division.
           AIG also has a boring life insurance division.
           AIG life insurance has lots of capital because insurance is
           AIG financial investments, because CDS is not regulated as insurance
           even though it is, is a large hole in the AIG ship.
           AIG life lends to the AIG ship to support the ship.
2008/9/18-19 [Transportation/Car] UID:51218 Activity:low
9/18    Credit default swap is a 70 TRILLION dollar business?   really?
        holy crap.
        \_ well, after they're offset, maybe it's a trillion ... or more
           \_ hi.   what do you mean offset?
              \_ A bought insurance from I1 on C going to 0 from 100.
              \_ A bought insurance from I1 on C going to 0.
                 B bought insurance from I2 on C doubling in price.
                 As long as I1 and I2 can always pay off the insurance, then
                 the net swaps are 0.
2008/9/17-19 [Transportation/Car, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:51203 Activity:nil
9/17    Haha, Pelosi has no idea where Natural Gas comes from.
        \_ Sounds like she'd make a great VP candidate.
        \_ What's wrong with that?  Not everybody farts. :-)
2008/9/11-18 [Transportation/Car] UID:51138 Activity:nil
9/11    Photojournalism from the Chinese Olympics, err, I mean the RNC
        \_ Why didn't Zombietime cover it, I wonder?
2008/9/11-18 [Transportation/Car] UID:51133 Activity:nil
9/11    I once saw a vehicle buyback program that pays maybe $1000 for vehicles
        that fail the smog test?  Does anyone have a link for this?  I found but
        only that's for vehicles that pass the smog test.  Thanks.
           \_ Thanks!
2008/9/4-8 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:51061 Activity:nil
9/4     Can someone point me to any well-regarded sites for GPS information?
        (something similar to for digital cameras, but for GPS)
        I'm mainly looking for in-car/dash-mount GPS, but I need to read up
        on the different methods available for live-traffic.  I could also
        use a site where I can narrow down my possible choices by features.
        \_ Don't. I live in LA. I spend over 2-3 hours a day on THE I-10
           I-110 and I-405. Don't. I bought a GPS w/ live traffic report
           from Costco. The delay is over 10 minutes, so by the time you
           get out, live traffic condition is already over. It is very good at
           looking at the past, but not the present. Traffic conditions in
           LA is too dynamic for this sort of stuff. You'll be going at
           0MPH with yellow dots while 60MPH with red dots. It is totally
           useless. My advice is to get the fuck out of Los Angeles instead
           of wasting money on GPS.   PS I returned my GPS from Costco.
           \_ If you were a real Los Angeleno you would know their proper
              The Santa Monica Freeway, The Pasadena Freeway and the San Diego
              Freeway. Go back to Tofuville.
2008/9/4-8 [Transportation/Car] UID:51055 Activity:nil
9/4     I want a car that can do this:
        \_ Fuck this car. I want a lifestyle that does not require me
           to drive. Fuck all cars.
           \_ Move to San Francisco, New York City or Boston then.
              Or Europe, you Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey.
2008/9/1-3 [Transportation/Car] UID:51018 Activity:kinda low
9/1     Just saw Chitty Chitty Bang Bang on ABC Family for the first
        time since I was a kid. Now that I'm grown up, I'm very disgusted
        with the movie. All that pleasant drive in open country with your
        magical car is just illusionary and unsustainable in this world.
        This is a film that GM would have loved to show to kids to get
        them addicted to the world of automobile quagmires. This movie
        may have been as cool as smoking in the 60s but is way outdated
        and today is as uncool as George W Bush.
        \_ Actually, I saw it as more of a propaganda for Socialism. You
           know, In Car (Government) We Trust. In time of leasure, we tell
           the Car how we should enjoy our lives, but in time of crisis,
           it is best that we just sit back in the Car and let it determine
           where we should go, how fast we should go, when we should go
           for doing so will only make the trip so much more pleasant.
           \_ Actually it's really a capitalist propaganda. Just listen
              to the lyrics:
                ... Your seats are a feather bed, you'll turn everybody's
                head today.
                ... With pride in our ownership, the envy of all we survey.
        \_ and look who it was written by!
           \_ What about Ian Flemming?
             \_ well, nice try anyway.  You proved you knew it was by Ian
                Fleming.  But actually I was assuming you did.  That was not
                a test; sorry about that.  My point actually was:
                Ian Fleming was like Mr Cold War.  You can't very well
                expect anything he wrote to withstand the relentless mallet
                of obsolescence.  Throw the guy a fricken bone.
2008/8/12-17 [Transportation/Car] UID:50854 Activity:kinda low
8/12    I've had AAA for over 15 years. It's $47 + $27(additional) per
        year. Thanks to the internet, Google maps, GPS, iPhone, and
        Travelocity and other wonderful sites, I no longer use AAA maps
        and AAA routing anymore. The only thing I need these days would
        be the towing service. I just found out that I could pay $6/year
        to my auto insurance for towing service up to $70. In contrast,
        AAA offers 7 miles of free towing. Does it make any sense to
        keep AAA? How many miles can you tow for $70 these days?
        \_ I was debating this very thing just recently. I opted to keep
           AAA for two reasons:
           1) It's nice to be able to perform DMV transactions w/o going
              to the DMV.
           2) I tend to take advantage of the discounts using my AAA card
              for things like hotels and rental cars plus even at some
              retailers. I am not sure I break even each year, but it's close.
           P.S. AAA also provides other services like a locksmith if you
                lock your key in your car, which you might use if you have an
                older car that still uses keys. I used it a couple times
                over the last 15 years.
        \_ The best reason for using AAA instead of another emergency towing
           service is that AAA negotiates with the individual towing companies
           for higher priority, and has contracts with more towing companies
           to provide a better density of coverage.  In other words, if you
           break down at the side of a road, the towtruck AAA dispatches will
           get to you faster than the towtruck dispatched by your insurance
           company.  To me, that's worth the money.  Also, AAA covers *you*,
           not *your car*, so you can use it on a friend's car if needed.
        \_ I have AAA membership, as well as insurances for 2 auto, home owner,
           rental property, umbrella, and 2 life.
           \_ Shit, you would probably be rich by now if you had invested all
              that money instead of giving it to insurance companies.
              \_ I don't even have earthquake or ID theft insurance.  Not sure
                 if AAA offer the latter.  -- PP
2008/8/10-13 [Transportation/Bicycle, Transportation/Car] UID:50833 Activity:nil
8/10    Not just in San Francisco are car drivers rude, stupid and dangerous:
2008/8/6-10 [Transportation/Car] UID:50792 Activity:nil
8/6     "Here's your mask to wear.  But don't wear it!"
        \_ Heh, I get a chuckle out of China being os testy about this stuff.
           Also, how does 2008 Beijing compare to 1984 LA?  LA was pretty nasty
           back in the 70's, wasn't it?
           \_ la = cars
              beijing = cars + factories
           \_ 84 was in the 70s?
              \_ Har, har.
               \_ Hey, I'm not the guy who wrote "the 70's" right after
                  refering to 1984.
           \_ 1984 LA was awesome. The traffic was great, the weather was
              great, the smog was a non-factor, and events conspired to make it
              one of the most successful Olympics ever.
2008/7/31-8/5 [Transportation/Car] UID:50744 Activity:moderate
7/31    Always have exact change
        "He said the attacker calmly came to the front of the bus to show
        off the head.
        \_ is my CCW permit valid on a bus in Winnipeg?
        \_ this is why public transportion should be banned.
           \_ Do you think you are safer on public transit or operating your
              own car?
              \_ Dunno, but I'm not gonna be beheaded by a passenger in my car.
        \_ I'm glad that 37 passengers were unwilling and unable to stop
           a single psycho with a knife. There was a wacko on the bus in
           Boston (the bus driver eventually kicked him off the bus) and I
           was already planning for having to tackle the dude, even though
           I'm hardly the heroic type, because there were women and kids
           at risk. I was *hoping* some of the other guys nearby would
           help me out if it came to that, but it looks like maybe that
           was wishful thinking. Or else Canadians are just pussies.
           \_ Or maybe the real world is not the action movie you
              think it is.  Dude snapped with no warning late at night
              when most people were half asleep.  I bet by the time it
              was over most people didn't even fully understand what was
              going on.  Ever been mugged?  It's not until after the dude
              is running away that you actually have a chance to think
              "hey wait, I'm on the ground, my jaw hurts, and that dude is
              running away with my wallet!"
              \_ The morons got back on the bus and watched him dismember
                 \_ Not according to the article.
                    \_ Yes, according to the article.
                          \_ "The bus driver, Caton and a trucker at the
                             scene re-boarded to see what was happening.

                             Caton said he saw the suspect had the victim on
                             the floor of the bus and "was cutting his head
                             off and pretty much gutting him" with a large
                             hunting knife.

                             The attacker turned toward them and the three
                             men quickly left the bus, blocking the door as
                             the attacker slashed at them through an opening.
                             The three secured the door to prevent the man
                             from fleeing. Caton said the driver disabled the
                             vehicle after the attacker tried to drive it

                             As the three guarded the door with a crow bar
                             and a hammer, the attacker went back to the body
                             and calmly came to the front of the bus to show
                             off the head."
                             \_ "Passengers exited the bus, and a trucker who
                                stopped provided wrenches and crowbars to
                                several of them so they could keep the suspect
                                on the bus until police came, witnesses told
                                Canadian TV."
                                The guy has already been stabbed multiple
                                times, and is in the process of being gutted,
                                and you think the other passengers should have
                                fought him?  Why?  Do you actually think they
                                could have done anything for the victim at
                                that point?
                                \_ How about, I dunno, before it got to
                                   that point instead of running off the bus
                                   like pussies?
                                   \_ Cause you are a real man who westles
                                      bears and fucks 10 women a day.  Oh
                                      wait, I forgot.  You are some pathetic
                                      shit who last got laid in '98 and spends
                                      his nights masturbating to war porn.
                                      \_ I'm the first to admit I'm not the
                                         type of guy you'd expect to intervene,
                                         but I would. I think most healthy
                                         males would if they have such a
                                         numerical advantage.
                                         \_ What advantage? People are waking
                                            up to discover they're on the RL
                                            set of a slasher film. Panic is
                                            the default setting in that
                                            circumstance, and it's a miracle
                                            more people weren't hurt rushing
                                            off the bus.
                                            \_ Yes, they did. They were still
                 \_ That's not what the CBC says.  Heck, according to this,
                    even the victim was sleeping.  The passengers did pretty
                    well. -!pp
                    \_ "Knife! Knife! Run!" followed by something like:
                       "Gee, do you think we should go back and check on that
                       Good job to trap the dude in the bus, though, for
                       what good it did the victim.
                       \_ The guy who'd already been stabbed 50 or 60 times?
                          One of the first things they teach police and first
                          responders is that you're no good to anyone if you
                          make yourself a victim, too.
                          \_ People survive being stabbed that many times
                             and who is to know that he wouldn't go after
                             someone else?
                             \_ ...hence why they got everybody off the bus.
                                I'm all for outstanding heroics to save a
                                person's life, but second-guessing people
                                who arguably saved everyone else on the bus
                                is just dickish. They did what they thought
                                was right under the circumstances.
           \_ I was on a BART train once and saw a guy running through cars,
              randomly punching people in the face, then running to the next
              car. I thought "WTF?" so I started following him. Some huge
              extremely buff dude in the next car, who was probably a pro
              football player or something (no kidding) then saw him and
              tackled him and then sat on him until we got into Embarcadero
              station, where the cops came and arrested him.
              \_ Good on you and the other dude! How did it go when the
                 cops got there?
2008/7/30-8/5 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:50730 Activity:nil
7/30    "Neighborhood Walkability Linked to Weight" (
        "People in the study who lived in the most walkable neighborhoods
        weighed an average of 8 pounds less than people who lived in the least
        walkable areas."
        "Neighborhoods built before 1950 tended to have sidewalks and other
        characteristics that made them more accessible to pedestrians, ......
        In general, newer neighborhoods offered fewer opportunities for

        Not all suburbs are the same.
        \_ Yeah, take Saratoga for example - no sidewalks or street lights.
        \_ San Francisco: 2nd skinniest county in America
  (Money Magazine)
           \_ Just in front of Williamson County, Tennessee, well-known as
              a walkable urban center.
2008/7/28-8/3 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Military] UID:50710 Activity:nil
7/28    The impossibility of getting a CCW and the potential for accidents
        and great harm from handguns makes ownership very unattractive.
        I'm now thinking of getting a taser. Do people need to register
        tasers?  Can they be carried in automobiles? CCW tasers?
        \_ A taser is considered a loaded firearm. (People v. Heffner)
           \_ It can't be. It is projectile using COMPRESSED AIR and
              should not be subjected to gun-powder related weapons.
        \_ Seriously, can you carry a taser in your car? Can you
           conceal it?
           \_ HEFFNER held that a taser is a firearm for the purposes
              of Penal Code 12031, which makes it a misdemeanor to carry
              a loaded firearm on your person or in a vehicle. If you
              could find some way of unloading your taser, then you
              probably could carry it in your car or conceal it. Also
              there are several exceptions to 12031. One of these
              applies to people who have a permit to carry a concealed
2008/7/28-8/2 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:50706 Activity:nil
7/28    Thugs on Wheels strike again
        \_ You know, I'm so surprised that we haven't had a nutcase
           with CCW PERMIT carrying guns and wielding a SUV who ended
           up shooting a bunch of bicyclists yeah baby BANG BANG BANG
        \_ So let's see.  Critical mass goes by.  Dude in car doesn't want
           to wait 10 minutes for them to pass, instead pulls out in front
           of them.  People get pissed and shout at him, so he drives his car
           through the crowd and hits some people.  Then things get ugly.
           Frankly he got off easy.
           \_ I have no idea where you invented this summary from:
               "According to what some witnesses told police, an altercation with
              the driver ensued and some of those on bikes began sitting on his
              car and hitting the vehicle, Jamieson said.
               "According to what some witnesses told police, an altercation
               with the driver ensued and some of those on bikes began sitting
               on his car and hitting the vehicle, Jamieson said.
               "The driver tried to back up, he said, and struck a bike.
               "That's when bicyclists really began attacking the vehicle.
              I think the cyclists got off easy.  That's the problem with mobs.
              \_ Key word: some.  Let's guess which some those were.  Dude
                 should never have ridden his car through the crowd.  You
                 know that, he knows that.  You think people just decided
                 to attack him for fun?  How come all those 1000s of other
                 cars along the route didn't get attacked?
                 \_ I think the Thugs intentionally intimidate drivers, and are
                    thrilled to escalate minor confrontations (jumping on the
                    car, etc.) which induce panic in the driver, who in fear
                    tries to get away from the mob.  See, that's the problem
                    with mobs.
                    \_ So because the guy was irrationally fearful, it is okay
                       that he committed assualt with a deadly weapon? Good
                       thing he didn't kill anyone. Would it be okay if I
                       started shooting at car drivers that violate my right of
                       way as a pedestrian? That is certainly a more rational
                       fear than this guys. What was the chance that someone
                       on a bicycle could actually hurt him if he stayed in
                       his car with windows rolled up?
                       \_ Smashing the windshield?  I'd say he is 100%
                          justified in fleeing from a mob, possibly injuring
                          members of the mob in the process.
                          \_ They smashed his windshield after he started
                             running people over, at least according to the
                             press account of the incident. I am not saying
                             that there was a good reason to smash his wind
                             shield, but he had no excuse for deliberately
                             running people over, just because they were
                             blocking his way and sitting on his car and
                             "hitting the vehicle" which means smacking it
                             with their palms.
                             \_ Nope, sorry you've got it wrong.
                                "The driver tried to back up, he said, and
                                struck a bike."
                                "That's when bicyclists really began attacking
                                the vehicle."
                                It was after the attack that the car drove
                                away through the crowd.
                                \_ Anyone with half a brain would know,
                                   don't try to muscle your car through
                                   a crowd of bikes.  What did he expect?
                                   The sea of bikes to part before his
                                   mighty car penis?  He tried to drive
                                   through them.  He fucking hit someone.
                                   \_ Sorry, once the mob attacks, the victim
                                      should use force (even deadly force) to
                                      escape from the mob. That's the problem
                                      with mobs.
                                   \_ Any bicyclist with a quarter of a brain
                                      should know not to try to block the way
                                      of a moving car. Those that place more
                                      importance on asserting their "right" to
                                      annoy drivers than on protecting their
                                      own safety fall victim to natural
                                \_ "Tried to back up" means that he deliberately
                                   backed into someone blocking his way. This
                                   should be assault, but since he was in a car
                                   he will get away with it.
                                      \_ I generally agree with you, but this
                                         is orthogonal to whether you have
                                         a right to run over someone who
                                         blocking your way.
                                \_ "Tried to back up" means that he
                                   deliberately backed into someone blocking
                                   his way. This should be assault, but since
                                   he was in a car he will get away with it.
                                   \_ No, it means he deliberately tried to
                                      back up, and there was someone in the
                                      way.  That doesn't mean he was
                                      deliberately trying to hit someone.
                                      \_ Let's change the bikes to say, a
                                         regular demonstration.  Demonstrators
                                         are marching, blocking a car.  Dude
                                         tries to pull out of his space anyway
                                         and hits a demostrator.  People start
                                         crowding his car and screaming at him
                                         for hitting someone when it was
                                         obvious he should have just waited
                                         rather than just pulling out when the
                                         road was blocked.  Dude responds by
                                         driving his car through the crowd,
                                         hitting several people.  You don't
                                         think he would be at fault there
                                         \_ And attacking the vehicle, smashing
                                            the windshield?  Yes, no fault in
                                            trying to get away.
                                      \_ Since neither of us was there and
                                         there are no videos, we can only
                                         speculate, but if you are surrounded
                                         by people peacefully blocking your
                                         way, backing up without making sure
                                         your way is clear is at the very
                                         least, very reckless.
2008/7/23-28 [Transportation/Car] UID:50671 Activity:nil
7/23    Are all traffic engineers imbeciles or is it just the Silicon
        Valley? I was at an intersection where the green light was
        letting cars through 2 seconds at a time on an 8-lane street
        but letting cars through a minute at a time for a 4-lane street.
        \_ Pretty much all imbeciles. In my city there's a road that has
           two lights in close succession - maybe 20 feet from each other.
           For years they were set so that they turned red and green
           together and you could go on your way. Someone had the bright idea
           to set them so that when the first one turns green the other one
           stays red for a couple of minutes longer which makes traffic
           pile up into the intersection. Brilliant!
           \- non-idiot:
        \_ Yes. Just look at 110 freeway in Southern Cal. The 10/110
           junction is idiotically designed. Also look at the 405 and
           101 junction. Why the hell they placed exits and entrances
           the way they are now, and why they can't do anything about
           it to fix the problem, is just idiotic. A friend of mine
           had a dad who worked at Rockwell and was laid off in the 80s
           and hired as a CalTrans engineer in the 90s said CalTrans was
           very laid back and they don't really care about anything except
           to follow legal and civil engineering rules. They know absolutely
           nothing about operations research or flow optimizations.
           \- i thought LA was supposed to be the well-run traffic system ...
              although i guess operations is different from design.
              when i have spoken to "transit people" [not engineers], i dont
              seem to get very good answers to "why do the carpool hours
              not make sense" "why is the echchange from MajorFwyA to MajorFwyB
              which is not in an especually crowded area one lane" "why was
              the cost estimate for the new bay bridge that far off" "why have
              they been closing a lane of the lower bay bridge for part of the
              day for say 5years now?" etc. i do understand that the avg
              traffic engineer may have very few degrees of freedom to
              fix stuff liek this. maybe their lives are something out of
              The Wire|The Sopranos.
           \_ Wait, I thought commuting by auto was far superior than by
              public transit. How can this be, if everyone designing the
              freeways is so incompetent? Perhaps they should hire DBAs
              from the private sector to do all their engineering for them.
              \_ The same morons are the ones designing public transit.
        \_ The only decent traffic engineers I know of are the ones working for
           NJDOT. The NJ turnpike is amazing.
2008/7/15-23 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:50578 Activity:nil
        Move over Tesla, a cheaper electric car is on the horizon!
        \_ The RAV4 EV wasn't that expensive.
        \_ Why do you say 'move over tesla' when the linked article is actually
           about the next model of tesla?
           \_ What I mean is "Move over, expensive car for rich people.
              FUCK Y'ALL RICH PEOPLE who benefited from tax breaks from
              F*** Y'ALL RICH PEOPLE who benefited from tax breaks from
              GWB and Reagan, now we poor suckers can drive EV as well!"
2008/7/1-14 [Transportation/Car] UID:50444 Activity:nil
7/1     "Most state workers in Utah shifting to 4-day week"
        Maybe you can get your employer to do the same, or maybe one work-
        from-home day in a week.
        \_ Like I said before, Mormons have it good man.
        \_ This is an actual decent way to reduce gasoline usage. We need more
           good ideas like this.
        \_ Question:  Does a 4-day week actually reduce gas use?
           I don't really stay home on weekends.  On workdays, I pretty
           much just go to/from work, which is actually a shorter commute
           than what I get up to on weekends.  So, with a 4-day week,
           does gas use increase or decrease?
           \_ Uh, you reduce your commutes-per-week from 5 to 4.
                \_ Uh, you missed the point, which is that I drive less
                   on a commute day than a non-commute day.  If that
                   is true for most people, then gas use increases
                   with a 4 day workweek.  Get it now?
                   \_ I got that.  You going to drive more on the 3 days now
                      then you did on the two days before?
                      \_ Yes, most likely.
                         \_ You're weird though.
                            \_ I'm not the PP, but I drive more on off days
                               also. I dont think it's that odd. I don't
                               know if I'm in the majority or not, but
                               it's worth considering. If people use the
                               off day to take the Sea Doos out to the
                               river then it will actually increase gas
           \_ If that's true, a work-from-home day is still a good alternative.
           \_ Yer supposed to be working at home on the 5th day, idiot, not
              driving to Yosemite.
                \_ Yes, I think work-from-home would work.
2008/6/30-7/14 [Transportation/Car, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:50420 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
7/1     So I'm in NYC now and I've been walking or taking a cab. I wish I
        hadn't returned my rental car, because driving here was so easy
        (I drove the first day), especially compared to Boston. Streets are
        laid out in a grid and traffic isn't so bad. I won't use mass transit
        at all here. I am rethinking my take on mass transit. Before I thought
        it only worked in dense cities. Now I don't think it's really needed
        anywhere. BTW, in Boston I had the experience of being kicked off
        the T for not having a ticket, but the station I was at didn't
        sell tickets. Talk about Catch 22. That was the Fine Arts station,
        which tourists like me presumably use. Mass transit is so user
        friendly and easy to use.
        \_ Now you are just trolling.
        \_ You win the high on crack award.
        \_ I think you're just plain stupid. "Now I don't think it's really
           needed anywhere." - Traffic in NYC is bad enough with the number
           of people that drive right now. If NYC didn't have mass transit
           it'd be ten times worse.
           \_ And more so in Tokyo and Hong Kong.  -- !OP
           \_ Or maybe there wouldn't be so many people crammed together
              and they'd be happier for it. The worst problem with driving
              in NYC is the cost of parking. I really do wish I had kept
              my rental car, though. My independence is limited without it
              and everyone talks about scary NYC driving but that's a myth
              perpetuated by, presumably, tourists who live in small towns.
              \_ Yeah everyone who lives in cities would be happier if they
                 just spread out, we understand your (bizarre) worldview.
                 It is actually quite doable to drive in NYC, I have done
                 it as well, but after a while you realize that you are
                 annoying all the cabbies. The only reason you can get
                 away with driving in lower manhatten is because almost
                 everyone on the road is a professional driver and they
                 make allowances for you. Just don't hit a bicyclist.
2008/6/24-27 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:50363 Activity:high
6/24    It amazes me how stupid people are about economics.  Don't people
        realize that "speculators" make things better?
        \_ Because no politician has the guts to say: "Suck it up and move on,
           it's demand and supply and the government can't and shouldn't do
           anything about gas prices". Because no politician has the guts to
           say "Look, how about YOU consume less gas, then you will spend less
           anything about gas prices". Because no politician has the guts to say
           "Look, how about YOU consume less gas, then you will spend less
           money on it? How about living closer to work, avoiding distant
           suburbs, using carpools or public transport, or trading in your
           "barn-on-wheels" grocery-getters and 300HP single occupant commuter
           appliances for something more efficient?" No politician wants to say
           that and no consumer seems to want to hear this either. There are no
           enough drama or opportunities to pander to voters in the traditional
           "demand and supply" explanation for the fuel price situation.
            suburbs, using carpools or public transport,
            or trading in your "barn-on-wheels" grocery-getters and 300HP
            single occupant commuter appliances for something more efficient?"
            No politician wants to say that and no consumer
            seems to want to hear this either. There are
            no enough drama or opportunities to pander to voters in the
            traditional "demand and supply" explanation for the fuel price
           \_ Sorry but this is flat out stupid.  People live far from their
              jobs because the price of a house or rental is so much lower
              even taking into account the huge increase in gas prices we've
              seen since 2006.  I want to live in your fantasy world where we
              can all simply choose to live near work.  Do you really truly
              think people drive 2+ hours a day because they like driving?
              All these people could swap out their Hummers for shitboxes
              cutting their gas costs by 50% or whatever and they'll still get
              creamed.  The reality is there aren't that many large vehicles
              doing long commutes.  I drive a V8 guzzler.  I drive it fast.
              Here's the math:  I use ~1000 gallons per year getting about 20
              mpg.  At $5/gallon for premium that's $5k/year.  I can switch to
              a crap car, get 30 mph and pay 20 cents less per gallon.  That's
              a savings of 333 gallons and $1800/year.  Whoop-ti-do.  I've
              saved the earth.  And it's 400HP, thanks.  There is plenty
              enough oil out there, insufficient refinery capacity and a ton
              of stupid laws that create different magical blends of gas that
              distort the market.  I'm sure the oil companies are doing a-OK
              on my wallet, too.  Drill, build some refineries, consolidate
              blend requirements across similar regions, and prices will drop.
              Econ 1.  The big question is: do the people in control of these
              things *want* the price to drop?  Hello Congress and State law
              \_ I _know_ childrenless couples who opt to drive one hour each
                 way  to their work just so that they could afford to
                 live in a ginormous house even though they could live for the
                 same amount of money in a perfectly nice two bedroom house
                 or an apartment in a nice safe neghborhood, 5 to 10 minute
                 drive distance from their work for the same money.
                 (no that's not in Bay Area). So yes, my claim was entirely
                 stupid. Next, refinery situation is not nice, but you won't
                 lower the gas prices by much simply by simplifying the blends
                 and regulations. About 75% of the price of gas you pay
                 at the pump simply covers the price of oil that was used
                 to make this gas. The rest is refining and distribution.
                 Streamlinging refinery regulations would knock off a few cents
                 at best. If every person who drives a gas guzler actually
                 did something to lower gas use by 30% like you propose above,
                 the prices wouldn't be so "bad" right now. The proven oil
                 reserves in the parts of the US where you can't drill will
                 increase the supply of US made oil only marginally, and we
                 still will end up importing most of our oil from abroad.
                 I am not saying we shouldn't drill more, but McCain's and GWB
                 push to open more areas for drilling will not fix any problems
                 in the short term, and hardly make a big difference in the
                 long term.
              \_ Do you read the viking hall of manliness website too?
                 \_ Since you know nothing and have nothing intelligent to
                    say you have to resort to a cheap personal attack.  Good
                    call.  That worked for me in 5th grade, too.
                 \_ 0.o That site breaks my brain.
              \_ People live far from their jobs because they are selfish
                 jerks who don't care how much suffering they cause other people
                 just so long as they get their 5 bedroom 3 bath home on half
                 an acre full of junk from Target. Homes are 50% larger then
                 they were in the 50's and families are smaller now. A smaller
                 car is not really going to fix the fundamental problem.
                 jerks who don't care how much suffering they cause other
                 people just so long as they get their 5 bedroom 3 bath home
                 on half an acre full of junk from Target. Homes are 50%
                 larger th[a]n they were in the 50's and families are smaller
                 larger then they were in the 50's and families are smaller
                 now. A smaller car is not really going to fix the fundamental
        \- gee, i guess even economists who debate things like hot money
           and the effects of high capital mobility are "stupid about
           economics". liquidity is generally good. but speculation is
           more complicated and might be "net" good, but not necess
           "all good". also not everybody is in the position of the
           dollar and a very large domestic economy.
           YMWTGF(GSOROS, sterilization).
           how about signing your name when calling other people stupid? --psb
           \_ I do when I specify names.  The nearly universal complaints about
              commodity speculators is silly.
                        \- "i do when i specify names" is kinda silly.
                           second, in your OP you didnt resrict your comment
                           to commodity speculation. the FX futures mkt and
                           the mkt for financial hedges and speculation is
                           much bigger than the commodities mkt, so that would
                           hardly be a default assumption. --psb
              \_ It is always easier to blame someone else for your troubles
                 than accept your own part in the problem.
        \_ Well informed speculators make things better.  Get rich quick idiots
           can throw prices totally out of whack, which is bad for necessities
           like food and shelter.
           \_ Exactly.  There is a mass of people who just follow whatever the
              trend is.  They hear dot com they balloon that up, housing ditto,
              now energy and commodities.  They are idiots because the majority
              of them in each case don't realize the large paper gains, and
              meanwhile they cause short term problems and volatility.
              \_ It is not clear to me what kind of problems dot com
                 speculators caused, other than a temporary misallocation of
                 capital. It is not like driving up the cost of WebVan stock
                 caused a shortage of anything.
                 \- just out of curiosity, what do you consider the diff
                    between a <DEAD><DEAD> "speculator" and a <DEAD><DEAD> "investor"
                    to be ... i mean it is meaningful to talk about a
                    hedger vs a speculator in a commodity or in the FX mkt,
                    but it's not totally clear how to differentiate in the
                    case of a stock ... or do you mean some vague either
                    focusing on time horizon or "second order" investments
                    [calls/puts, shorts, butterflies etc].
2008/6/18-22 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:50291 Activity:nil
6/18    "June 19 is a Free Transit Day!"
2008/6/12-13 [Transportation/Car] UID:50235 Activity:nil
6/12    Today is Spare the Air day.
        \_ shut up capitalism hating socialist freeloader
           \_ There are private companies running public transits, private
              companies researching in more fuel-efficient cars, private
              companies makeing tele-commuting infrastructure, etc.
              companies making tele-commuting software, etc.
2008/6/9-12 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:50195 Activity:nil
6/8     6 Ways You're Wasting Gas - Yahoo! Autos Article Page:
        \_ Dumbest article evar!  Why does common sense continue to masquerade
           as news articles?
           \_ Because a lot of people don't seem to have much common sense?
2008/5/23-31 [Transportation/Car] UID:50044 Activity:nil
5/23    "March driving down for 1st time since 1979: government"
        \_ With gas now over $4 per gallon even at cheap places, it costs
           me $10 per day ($5 for gas, $5 for parking) to drive to work,
           and that's by picking up people for casual carpool. That's a
           tipping point for me, so I'm going back to public transport,
           at least until the schools get out and I can snag free parking.
           \_ See, price signals do work.
2008/5/17-23 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49987 Activity:nil
5/17    Bush suspends oil reserve deliveries to soften the gas price.
        Good idea (lowering price) or bad idea (less gas in the reserves)?
        \_ Don't you mean "Bush agrees with Congress to suspend oil reserve
           deliveries after they threaten veto?"
           \_ Veto doesn't mean what you think it means.
        \_ Bad because such a tiny amount of oil won't make a dent to the oil
           or gas price.  Good for the politicians who initiated it though, as
           election is coming up.  If oil or gas prices doesn't drop, such
           initiative won't hurt them.  But if prices does drop for whatever
           other reason, they can say "See, we made the price drop."
2008/5/16-21 [Transportation/Car] UID:49969 Activity:nil
5/15    Here's a picture of San Francisco in 1971
        check out the freeway! - danh
        \_ A double-deck freeway along the Embarcadero?  Is it fake?
           \_ No, it was demolished soon after the 1988 earthquake.
                                                   \_ 1989
              \_ and a great example of how removal of freeways can make
                 a city more attractive and liveable.  -tom
                 \_ Only fire would make SF more attractive.
                    \_ Only a nuke would make LA more attractive.
2008/5/15-16 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Jobs] UID:49947 Activity:nil
5/15    Tired of CS? become a gopher trapper! (appropos of nothing)
        Man, pocket gophers have pretty big heads for their body size.
        \_ Gopher Trapper is a terrible place to work at - ex-Gopher Trapper
        \_ Gopher trapper is a terrible place to work at - ex-Gopher trapper
        \_ I wonder if it's safe to eat your average garden gopher?
        \_ I don't understand why so many ex Gopher Trappers are doing
           non Gopher Trapping stuff when they stop Gopher Trapping.
        \_ Big surprise, Gopher Trapping is better value than
        \_ Big surprise, Gopher Trapping is a better value than
        \_ I don't understand why so many ex Gopher trappers are doing
           non Gopher trapping stuff when they stop Gopher trapping.
        \_ Big surprise, Gopher trapping is a better value than
           masturbating all day to Cuddy.
2008/4/28 [Transportation/Car, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:49847 Activity:nil
4/28    Cute:
2008/4/27-5/4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:49839 Activity:nil
4/27    Dear dim guru, I need your advice. I have a very good job in
        Santa Monica and my fiancee has a very good job in San Dimas.
        We've compromised and decided to rent a place in Pasadena to
        see how things will work out. However, I'm afraid that
        a few months into this trial period we'll both be burned out
        by traffic fatique and road rage. What is your advice?
        \_ Get a job in Pasadena. -!dim
        \_ The commute from Pasadena to Santa Monica will suck more than
           anyone can imagine.
           \_ My gf commuted from Pasadena to Venice. She did it a year
              before she got an apartment on the Westwide (Westwood).
              \_ A few things. Venice is a dump. Westside (Westwood) tends
                 to be expensive, and dumpy as hell. Their major arteries
                 are Wilshire Blvd, Santa Monica Blvd, Pico, Lincoln. It
                 takes LITERALLY 30 minutes to travel 5 miles. My god, I
                 can't believe people actually WANT to live on the Westside.
                 The jobs are ok but the lifestyle sucks. People go to S Cal
                 because they don't know any better. Fucking dumb S Cal
                 Hicks                                  -bitter x-S-Cal
2008/4/25-5/2 [Transportation/Car] UID:49828 Activity:kinda low
4/24    Los Angeles is bleeding with foreclosures:,0,3014082.photogallery?index=12
        PS Talking to the trashy ppl there I always knew how dumpy
        Lancaster and Palmdale were. At foreclosure rate of 1/59 and
        1/67, you have to wonder why people there are so irresponsible
        with their finances. On the other hand, it's surprising
        to me that a city as dumpy as Venice and Santa Monica have much
        fewer foreclosures than Lancaster and Palmdale.
        \_ These areas also attract people who love MONSTER TRUCK and
           NASCAR. I mean, it's always been known that people who live
           far from civilization are lower forms of life. The saddest
           thing is that people like you and me end up bailing them out
           of their misery.
        \_ Santa Monica is pretty much the only place in LA I would
           consider living in. Maybe Malibu if I was so rich I didn't
           have to drive anywhere. -Liberal SF Elitist
        \_ Santa Monica is a shithole, but for a while it was more expensive
           than Beverly Hills in terms of median price for a SFR. There
           are a lot of wealthy people that live there and demand to live there
           is high there so it stands to reason foreclosures would be low
           compared to poor, undesirable Lancaster and Palmdale.
           \_ If it is a shithole, why do so many wealthy people want to
              live there?
              \_ A lot of people new to LA think it's where they want to live.
                 Also, the location has close proximity to lots of high-paying
                 jobs so it's convenient. SM does have some nice areas in
                 the north, but those houses costs millions and are out of
                 the north, but those houses cost millions and are out of
                 reach of most people. Think of SM like Berkeley. Berkeley
                 is an expensive crime-ridden shithole,  but that doesn't
                 mean there aren't some nice places in the Berkeley Hills.
                 \_ Where in LA isn't a shithole?
                    \_ Lots of places including Pacific Palisades, Palos
                       Verdes, Bel Air, Malibu, most of the canyons, SF
                       \_ and yet, you still have to drive through the
                          shithole freeways like the I-10 and I-405.
                          You can live in a nice home but if it takes
                          so much effort to get from A to B, it's still
                          a shithole.
                       Valley south of Ventura Blvd, La Canada, San
                       Marino, Beverly Hills, Manhattan Beach, Hermosa
                       Beach. Almost any place near a beach or the
                       mountains/hills. Lots of Orange County is nice,
                       \_ yet you still have to deal with LA traffic.
                          Lots of traffic in Orange County. You're
                          confusing nice homes and neighbors and nice
                          quality of living. Traffic and road rage and
                          congestions and pollution != quality of living.
                          You may live in the nicest home in Irvine but
                          you're still in hell. I guess dimwitted
                          Angelenos will never get it.
                          \_ I live 8 miles from work and take the street
                             to get there. Dealing with traffic, whether
                             in LA, SF, Seattle, or Des Moines, is a
                             personal choice. I'd say SF is more congested
                             \_ LA is a really great place if you never have
                                to drive the same reason why Las Vegas is a
                                really great place to live as long as you never
                                have to leave your huge Vegas mansion.
                             and I dunno about pollution but it's better
                             than it was in the 1970s which is more than
                             can be said about most places. I have a
                             mountain view, experience lots of wildlife,
                             enjoy the warm weather, and love being near
                             world-class shopping, entertainment, museums,
                             and educational institutions. Last weekend I
                             hiked in the snow and walked along the beach
                             in the same day. To me, this (California) is
                             paradise. It's just that LA is a bit warmer
                             and has a bit more going for it than SF. SF
                             and San Diego are nice, too, but much more
                             provincial in comparison. Maybe I'll retire there.
                             \_ If everyone in LA lived 8 miles from work,
                                traffic problem would be less of an issue
                                today. I've lived in LA 1/2 of my life and
                                MOST ppl there don't have the luxury of living
                                so close to where they work, or they simply
                                don't want to live so close to work given
                                how shady some of the commercial zones are.
                                In addition the clear commercial/residential
                                zoning that was in place decades ago really
                                segmented everyone in LA, though a lot
                                of positive changes have happened (e.g.
                                the trend to push for mixed used developments
                                like the Redevelopment of LA and the Playa
                                Vista project). If you live 8 miles from where
                                you work, enjoy your career choices in the
                                proximity of where you live, it doesn't
                                matter where you live. Consider yourself
                                blessed because you're in a much better
                                position than 90% of the Angelinos.  -x-LAer
                                \_ Proximity to work is a choice we all
                                   make. Some people in the Bay Area work
                                   in SF and live in Livermore. My sister
                                   lives in Walnut Creek and used to
                                   commute to Tiberon. You can make those
                                   choices anywhere. It's more difficult
                                   if you are a two-income family, since
                                   it's harder to live close to two jobs,
                                   but I don't see this as an issue specifically
                                   related to LA. Even if you work in a
                                   sketchy area there is usually a nice
                                   area not too far away. Else, don't
                                   accept a job in that sketchy area.
                                   People like to blame LA for their own
                                   personal lousy choices. I knew a couple
                                   that moved to LA from Colorado. They
                                   lived in Valencia. The guy worked in
                                   Palmdale on the Space Shuttle and his
                                   wife worked as an EE in Irvine. They
                                   hated it here. Could it possibly be
                                   because of the shitty situation they
                                   set up for themselves involving long
                                   commutes and boring suburbs? I'd hate
                                   it, too. They went back to Colorado
                                   within 2 years. Lots of people do
                                   equally stupid things. A lot of my
                                   \_ Valencia and Irvine is a stupid choice
                                      and they would have done better had
                                      they moved to a place with more nearby
                                      related industries. Just as stock brokers
                                      move to NYC or actors move to LA
                                      engineers should move to N Cal.
                                      I'm an engineer and I've gone through
                                      so many companies like IBM and Intel
                                      and now a startup, and I've never had
                                      to move given how close I was to
                                      endless career opportunities. If I
                                      moved to LA, it would be the end of
                                      my career or my home, since I'd have
                                      much less mobility.
                                   coworkers are fresh-outs who move to LA
                                   for work. Where do they invariably
                                   live? The beach. How far is the beach
                                   from work? 37 miles. That's 50 minutes
                                   without traffic. WHY?! They usually move
                                   away in a few years. The people who
                                   stay on long-term are the people who
                                   chose to live close to work (a very
                                   nice area, BTW, just not near the beach).
                                   I'm better off than 90% of Angelenos
                                   because I realize I control my own
                                   commute with the choices I make in
                                   where to work and live and I don't do
                                   stupid things like accept job offers that
                                   pay 10% more but increase my commute by
                                   an hour a day.
                                   \_ where does your wife work? How long
                                      do you plan to stay at your job? How
                                      secure is it?
                                   \_ Because LA is so poorly planned, it is
                                      hard to find homes near jobs. You fail
                                      to see the connection between low density
                                      single use development and long commutes.
                                      SM -> Downtown is 15 miles, btw and there
                                      are other good job centers even closer.
                           \_ Most of this was already covered above, but yeah,
                              I guess I cannot in good conscience call any of
                              those places shitholes, though I would not want
                              to live in almost any of them, because they are
                              too far from jobs and shopping and have no good
                              rapid transit, which would force me to have to
                              spend hours a day on LAs congested freeways. I
                              can imagine a situation where it would be okay
                              (worked at CalTech and lived in San Marino, for
                              example) but that would be pretty unique. Parts
                              of Beverley Hills are pretty nice: ironically
                              I prefer the part that most people think of as
                              "not as nice" because it is walking distance
                              to Santa Monica Blvd. And all those places cost
                              just as much or more than Santa Monica north
                              of Montana. -SFer
                              to Santa Monica Blvd. And those places cost
                              just as much or more than Santa Monica. -SFer
                       too, if you want to count that as part of LA.
        \_ SF still going strong:
  (WSJ - video)
           \_ At the price point I've been paying attention to SF
              has dropped a bit.
              \_ Which price point is that, if I may ask. I am kind of
2008/4/21-5/2 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:49793 Activity:nil
4/21    Think car. 0 emission and 124 miles per charge:
        \_ It reads "zero *local* emissions."  Nonetheless, "an energy
           efficiency three times that of a traditional combustion engine
           car" is still pretty impressive.
2008/4/16-23 [Transportation/Car] UID:49759 Activity:nil
4/16    Really cool visualization and statistics site from IBM:
        \_ Clinton-Obama visualization:
        \_ LA wasted most fuel in traffic congestion, 2005:
           FUCK LA.
        \_ Higher density = greater travel time. Any comment, urban lover?
           \_ ObSuburbsSuck
           \_ ObSuburbsSuck. Show me the data broken down by a higher
              granularity. The reason SF Bay Area commutes are long is
              because of the morons commuting from Tracy and Danville,
              not from the people living in Chinatown.
           \_ That's "more population", not "higher density."  Change the
              dot size to "Population Density" and the graph looks a lot
              different.  -tom
              \_ Graph density vs. travel time and it looks even worse for
                 density. But this data source claims that LA is the
                 most dense urban area, even more than NYC.
                 \_ NYC is listed as 4780 square miles, LA as 2285 square
                    miles.  Obviously those are semi-arbitrary boundaries
                    and probably not comparable ones.  -tom
2008/4/15-23 [Transportation/Car] UID:49757 Activity:nil
4/15    In Bay Area, what percentage of the home (non-condo/townhouse) value should I
        expect to pay for home insurance? And are any of it deductible? Just trying
        to do a rough number calculation for single family home + insurance vs condo
        with HOA.
        \_ Insurance for your residence is not tax-deductible.
        \_ This whole idea of TAX DEDUCTION to stimulate the
           OWNERSHIP SOCIETY is totally stupid. Ditto with tax rebates
           that really come from foreign loans that someone will have
           to pay back.
           \_ No they won't. We're throwing the dollar overboard, and the debt
              will go with it. The dollar is "overloaded".
        \_ Even with a condo you should obtain insurance for your belongings
           and for liability. Insurance will be about .002 of home replacement
           cost (deduct the land) if you have a high deductible (>$1K). As
           above, the insurance is not deductible.
           above, the insurance is not deductible. One thing to note:
           condos usually have earthquake coverage included in the HOA
           dues, while for a SFR this costs (a lot) extra.
2008/4/9-12 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:49691 Activity:nil
4/8     Somewhat amusing talk on Urban Design by James Howard Kunstler.
        He has some interesting things to say, but he thinks he's more
        clever than he is. (video) (anti-suburb rant)
2008/4/4-9 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:49667 Activity:nil
4/4     "Slow Down a Little, Save a Lot of Gas" (
        \_ RIDE A BIKE and save even more gas.   Economically it boils down to
           what is your time worth?  Is driving faster going to save enough of
           your time to make up for the extra fuel cost?
           Their argument that it saves 'a lot of gas' is week, it pretty much
           just saves a little.
           \_ It's kind of depressing riding my bike to work and being passed
              by hundreds of cars.  Especially since many of the cars have
              driven an 50 miles to get there...
              \_ Change your bike route/time along heavy commute.  I used to
                 pass by cars along Shattuck in Oakland even on my heavy
                 mountain bike.
                 \_ Haha.  Unfortunately I'm travelling the wrong direction
                    for that.
           \_ PFT!  USE FOOT!  Ride bike will not help.  It just hides the
              costs of shipping and processing all that metal, exotic plastics
              and other earth destroying by products of the biking craze.  If
              everyone walked barefoot at all times there'd be no transport
              pollution at all.
2008/3/19-21 [Transportation/Car] UID:49506 Activity:moderate
3/19    Does anyone know a decent pro-bono auto accident type lawyer
        in the bay area?  I was almost killed, my truck is in a million
        pieces, and people are starting to send me bills for
        this. I'm thinking of suing my insurance company for
        incompetence at the very least.
        \_ Excuse me, why do you need a truck in this world? I mean,
           are you a construction worker? Do you NEED a truck?
           \_ good troll.   I think.  I'm sorry your life is so boring.
              Also... I don't have a truck anymore!  see above.
              \_ I think the point is you aren't gonna get pro-bono work
                 for a wrecked truck.  It's not that vital.
                 \_ AND THEN?
        \_ Pro-bono?  Are you destitute?  Try a lawyer on a contingent.
        \_ This is not the kind of case lawyers typically take pro-bono.
           You can complain to the California Consumer Protection Agency
           about your insurance company and also the BBB.
        \_ You can probably find an attorney who is willing to take your
           case on contingency. Normal contingencies are in the range of
           20-35% of whatever recovery you get.
2008/3/15-17 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:49466 Activity:nil
3/14    Is there any good document composition mode in emacs?  auto-fill-mode
        is pathetic.
2008/3/12-13 [Transportation/Car] UID:49432 Activity:nil
3/12    I have really good medical insurance from my company. Is it
        still necessary to carry Uninsured & Underinsured Motorist,
        (state minimum $15K)? In addition, everyone in my family
        is insuranced, is there a reason to get the and Medical
        Payments which only covers $500-$2000/passenger?
        \_ I don't bother with medical. It only makes things worse, IMO,
           because the two insurances fight with each other and delay
           payment. I cancelled any auto-related medical I had. Uninsured
           motorist covers things other than medical (like loss of future
           earning capacity, pain and suffering, and related household
           expenses) but that's I risk I live with.
        \_ I was sitting at an intersection for about 8 green lights waiting
           on these morons.  The temptation to use my "right away" and plow
           right through the bikers was constantly growing
           \_ stupid troll, strike 3
2008/3/9-12 [Transportation/Car] UID:49401 Activity:kinda low
3/9     Are ignorant people really happier than overly educated people?
        \_ No idea. --happy
        \_ educated have more to worry about. They have more to lose, and
           they need to work harder to maintain the lifestyle that they're
           accustomed to. So, yes, ignorance is bliss.
           \- i suspect educated people live in circumstances
              where they are exposed to a wider range of life
              circumstances [the prof making $150k/yr whose college
              where they are exposed to a wider range of affulence
              [the prof making $150k/yr whose college
              roommate is a doctor/lawyer/baker] so there is more
              status anxiety. but a bunch of the first wave of
              "happiness" studies didnt really do such a good job
              measuring happiness. things like not having healthcare,
              not having reliable transportation loom pretty large.
              an interesting factoid is: there is a correlation between
              the price of a car and how much people "like" their car
              when asked a question like "how much do you like your
              car", but there is no correlation between price of a
              car and how much people like/dislike their commute.
              you should try to find daniel kahneman's recent
              berkeley lecture on this.
        \_ You might be interested in reading "The Geography of Bliss."
           The Butahni guy he talks to basically postulates that the secret
           to happiness is low expectations.
           \_ This is one of the premises of Buddhism.
              \_ Url to prove this?
                 \_ Umm, do you accept wikipedia entries?
                    \_ I don't see the word "expectation" in this entry.
                       \_ Are you joking?  What in the world made you think
                          the premises of Buddhism would be expressed in
                          exactly the terminology I used here?  Are you really
                          that dumb?
2008/3/7-11 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:49384 Activity:nil
3/7     Stuff like this can make the cities even more desireable places
        to live. Imagine urban mobility without sharing the bus or
        having to hunt for a parking place:
        \_ That "stuff" is called the bicycle, scooter, and motorcycle.
        \_ ya know, not everyone shares your vision of Liberal Urban Utopia.
           Despite the obvious rise and demand of city homes, the number
           of people moving to suburbs still outstrip the number of people
           moving to cities. The increase supply of city homes still cannot
           meet the growing needs of our nation. As long as suburbs are
           more affordable, there will be people moving to suburbs.
        \_ OMG, now my car would actually be a useless little dink box that
           every idiot has drooled over, left their condoms in, used to shoot
           up, and I'm going to get busted for the drugs and god only knows
           what that some idiot left in it before me.  Fortunately I dont have
           to carry anything bigger than a water bottle so this vehicle is
           just perfect!  I'm ready for Urban Utopia!
        \_ This is new??  How is this different from the Toyota PM that has
           been announced for a while?
2008/3/6-7 [Transportation/Car] UID:49364 Activity:kinda low
3/6     When I run my car heater, am I getting heat for free?  Is it
        just rerouting engine heat into the inside of my car?  Or
        am I consuming a lot more fuel, increasing my fuel consumption?
        \_ Yes, engine heat. Fancier cars may heat it until the engine warms up.
        \_ Yes, engine heat. Fancier cars may heat it until the engine warms
2008/2/28-3/4 [Transportation/Car] UID:49284 Activity:low
2/28    Looking for that URL where it accepts an address and publishes
        all the criminals and offenders who live in your area. What
        is that URL? Google failed me.
        \_ keywords: crime data crimes criminal offender molester molesters
        \_           meganslaw megans law
        \_ You cannot find all criminals, only sex offenders. Google
           "Megan's Law".
              Only 30 sex offenders within 5 miles of where I live. You?
              \_ More interesting is what percentage of the population
                 is sex offenders. I live in a city, so I am sure that
                 there are thousands.
                 \_ No. This is a good example where absolute numerical
                    number determines how well you child will get exposed
                    to child molesters.
                    \_ That could only possibly be true if you interacted
                       with everyone in a certain radius of your home, no
                       matter how dense the population was. What is the
                       percentage of your neighbors that are molestors?
                       Afraid to share?
                       \_ Hey dumb ass. I just checked San Jose, over 800+
                          sex offenders. San Francisco has over 400 sex
                          offenders. You were saying?
                          \_ Just answer the question.
                          \_ Just answer the question, if you are smart
                             enough to do so "dumb ass."
                          \_ Wow! 1700+ molesters live withing five miles
                             of downtown LA!
                             \_ Exactly, the city's full of molesters and
                                that's why suburbs are better for kids.
                                \_ I just checked, Chico CA has 84 molesters
                                   in a city of 71,000. That is twice as many
                                   per capita than San Francisco!
                       \_ I live in the suburbs so my interactions are very
                          limited, and it's easy to memorize 30 faces.
                          Can you say the same thing about... San Francisco?
                          \_ It is true that misanthropes tend to interact
                             with fewer people. Why not move to rural Texas
                             into a compound and only interact with people
                             that you know? You do know that children are
                             more likely to be molested in the suburbs than
                             in the city, right?
                             \_ I live in Irvine. Check Irvine and click
                                the red dot right above 405. Even our
                                sex offenders look professional (in suit)
                                vs. creepy looking old guys elsewhere.
                                Suburbs rule man.
                             \_ Damn....  So child molester count has now
                                become a city vs. suburb troll.  How about
                                we don't *ever* let child molesters in public?
                                The NIMBYism is ridiculous.
                             \_ I'd like to see a link for that.  Anyway, the
                                VAST majority of child molestation is done by
                                \_ And where do those relatives live?
                                   \_ In the suburbs, obviously.  All bad
                                      people ive in suburbs.
                                      \_ Not all bad people, just a
                                         disproportionate number of them.
        \_ Hey, are you the same guy that claims the government takes out
           a majority of his take home pay? I just wanna know because this
           line of confused thinking sounds suspicious to me...
           \_ No that is not me but I do agree with most of what dimwit
              has to say.
2008/2/19-21 [Transportation/Car] UID:49181 Activity:nil
        Recessionistas getting you down?  Underwater on your mortgage?
        Wear an "I Support the Economy" sticker and win free cash in a New
        York shopping mall!  Free parking thru May!
        \_ Reminds me of Ford's "Whip Inflation Now" buttons.
2008/2/16-18 [Transportation/Car] UID:49167 Activity:moderate
2/16    LA.  what a shithole.
        \_ Los Angeles is the left armpit of United States.
        \_ A hurricane will do that.
        \_ Yes my biggest problem with LA's night club was that it was
           great except... you have to drive home.
        \_ It drives me batshitinsanewithbellson every time I hear someone
           from LA precede a numerical freeway name with "the". The 101.
           The 405. The 5. Then they move up here and keep doing it, The
           101, The 280. It's unnecessary. It's a careless squandering of
           words the same way they squander water and air and land
           and culture.
           \_ It makes sense to do so. Do you say "Take 5 freeway to 10
              \_ No, they don't say "take the 5 freeway either.  NC people say
                 "Take 80 to 5."  SC says, "Take the 80 to the 5."
                 \_ Because it sounds stupid to say "Take 5 freeway". "Take
                    the 5" is short for "Take the 5 freeway".
              \_ No, we say "Take 101 to 280" etc.
                 \_ But that makes no sense if you are talking about
                    freeways. It makes sense for "Take Highway 101 to
                    Highway 43" -> "Take 101 to 43" but "Take the 5
                    freeway" -> "Take the 5". "Take Highway 101 to 280
                    freeway (or even freeway 280)" doesn't sound right.
                    The Century freeway to the Foothill freeway, etc. is
                    exactly the same and you wouldn't omit "the".
                    \_ Who says "Take the 5 freeway?"  People say "take I-5"
                       or, "Interstate 5."  I've never heard a single person
                       say "take the 5 freeway."  Are you a FOB?
           \_ It makes me batshit crazy when I hear people say "hella" as in
              "the Bay Area is hella lame for having stupid slang."
2008/2/15-18 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:49161 Activity:moderate
2/15    Dear LA hater, let's start an LA bashing thread. What is it about
        LA you hate?
        \_ I've had the opportunity to live in the Bay Area for 9 years
           and LA 10 years. It's true that traffic jam exist in both places
           but there are degrees of traffic jam. In short, below is my
           I-405 jam: Mon-Sat, 7am-11am, 4pm-8:30pm REALLY bad. Bad
                on weekends even at 1AM.
           I-10 jam: Mon-Sat, 7am-10am West bad, 4pm-8pm East REALLY bad.
           I-60 jam: similar to I-10
           I-105 jam: actually pretty nice except getting to/from it sucks
           I-210 jam: Mon-Sat REALLY bad near Pasadena, and unbearable
                from Arcadia to 57 due to lots of new cheap homes
           Bay Area in general: 7-10am kind of bad, 5-7pm kind of bad,
                but at least you're moving at 30MPH.
           In short, yes both areas have problems but it's a LOT worse
           in LA where traffic jam can be extremely unpredictable at times.
           LA traffic blows, no doubt about that.
        \_ I hate all the SUV and Hummer drivers. And a lot of people are
           REPUBLICANS not because they have a strong opinion on religion,
           abortion, etc, but simply because they like the idea of TAX CUtS.
                \_ That's called "fiscal conservatism".  It is one of the
                   three pillars of the (R) party.  Sorry if you don't
                   understand that all (R) are not bible thumper social
                   conservatives.  You don't understand what a (R) is.  Check.
                   My name is reiffin. Check.
                   \_ What are the three pillars? Violence, hypocrisy and
           On average the people in LA are much less intelligent than the
           people in N Cal. I mean, just look at the way people drive, the
           the type of music they listen to, the type of modifications
           they make to their cars, and their loud stereos they crank up
           to increase their status symbol. Traffic sucks and while it's
           a culturally diverse city, there is a lot of self segregation
           amongst the ethnics (e.g. blacks vs. Koreans, whites on the
           West side vs. Asians in Monterey Park, etc). Everyone's isolated
           and you don't even want to talk to your next door neighbor.
           I'm not even going to get into smog and traffic jam. The lack of
           a centralized tech hub and the sparse density of related jobs
           (e.g. immobility of jobs due to spread out geographic locations
           of tech jobs) makes it a career suicide.
           N Cal has plethora of startups and big companies concentrated
           within 10 miles of most single family home in Sunnyvale/San
           Jose/Santa Clara/etc. On the other hand the derth of tech jobs
           in LA are spread out in 100 miles from Irvine to Santa Monica
           to Burbank to Pasadena and even in the suburbs like San Dimas
           (what kind of tech talents are you going to attract from SAN
           DIMAS? What a joke!) In short LA blows and the people who live in
           it are mostly ignorant dim faggots who don't know any better.
           \_ A centralized tech hub isn't important to most people.
        \_ obviously not the H07 CH1X
           \_ Unless you are into ditzy blond girls the whole h0t ch1x aspect
              of LA is overrated. Personally I could not stand the congestion
              and smog. Oh, and the people are like totally superficial and
              \_ Like, totally!
              \_ Or hot Mexican girls, hot Asian girls, hot Middle-Eastern
                        \_ Yeah what is it with all the hot PERSIAN girls
                           who hate to be called Iranian? I mean, their
                           parents came here in the 80s, they're SUPER RICH
                           and drive nice cars, and they're SUPER HOT.
                 girls, etc. However, they are all gold diggers and won't
                 date you unless you are rich and/or look like a model
                 yourself. Good for rich ugly guys, though. The superficial
                           \_ Agree, it's perfect for butt ugly Greek men
                              who look super wealthy with their cheaply
                              bought McMansions in the boonies.
                           \_ Weird.  Rich attractive girls want to date rich
                              attractive men!  How unfair is that?  This is a
                              tragedy of the commons!  We need a government
                              program to fix this!
                              \_ Well, they are attractive but not rich.
                                 So attractive girls want to date rich
                                 guys. That's not so odd to be sure, but
                                 in LA it is the standard.
                 people live on the Westside and do not represent all of (or
                 even most of) LA. It's like saying the people in SF are
                 all superficial jocks and ditzy blondes after visiting a
                 bar in the Marina District. The smog is not that bad
                 these days, especially if you live anywhere near the
                 coast. I find it a non-issue. It was a big deal in the
                 1970s, though. Congestion sucks, but name an urban area
                 that is not congested, including SF and Berkeley.
                 \_ There are congestions everywhere. The difference between
                    N Cal and LA is that you don't need to drive 30 miles
                    at 20MPH to go to a decent AFFORDABLE suburb to "tech
                    hubs" in downtown LA or West Los Angeles.
                    \_ What is your idea of an affordable suburb in the SF
                       area that is under 30 miles from a tech job center?
                       \_ Nobody mention SAN FRANCISCO. N Cal-- San Jose,
                          Milpitas, etc etc.
                       \_ Castro Valley, Hayward, Milpitas, Union City, Dublin
        \_ LA and San Diego have tons of hot cute gay asian guys and West
           Hollywood rocks -- other than that SoCal sucks.
           \_ I believe SF is better for this.
2008/2/15-18 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:49151 Activity:high
2/14    It took me over 2.5 hours to drive from Santa Monica to Arcadia,
        a distance of 38miles, or 15MPH. What the hell is wrong with
        Los Angeles and why do people actually want to live in LA? God
        I can't wait to get out of this shithole the time comes.
        \_ Maybe for the H07 CH1X?
        \_ Dude, take the 405N to the 118 and it won't take 2.5 hours.
           \_ You DUMB FUCK I will still need to get to 210 which will
              FUCK IT UP as badly as I-10/I-60. FUCK YOU DUMB FUCK.
                   \- motd road rage!
              \_ There is no traffic eastbound on the 210 between the
                 118 and 134. After that you are almost there and can even
                 take the street if you want. And if you are taking the 10
                 or the 60 from SM to Arcadia at any time other than the middle
                 of the night you are obviously the dumbfuck. You proved
                 it with your ridiculous 2.5 hour commute.
                 \_ No. 210 going through Pasadena towards Azusa is a
                    total suicide. You obviously haven't driven that part
                    in the past 5 years where there were plenty of new
                    homes sprawling in Azusa/Glendora making the commute
                    a total nightmare.                          !op
                    \_ So don't take that part of the 210 and get off in
                       Pasadena and take the street to Arcadia. Up until
                       that point (where 210 and 134 meet) there is no
                       eastbound traffic on the 210.
                       \_ Are you proposing taking big streets like
                          Huntington (slow slow) or side streets with
                          a bunch of stop signs? 15MPH on 210 is actually
                          faster than Huntington at stop+go @25MPH, and
                          faster than small streets at stop+go @15MPH.
                          \_ You aren't going to get to Arcadia without
                             doing one of either:
                             1) Taking the 210
                             2) Taking sidestreets
                             However, it's a small part of the overall commute.
                             Personally, I would take Walnut to Foothill.
                             \_ Why not take the 105 -> 605 and into
                                Arcadia the back way? Ten years ago this
                                would have been the fastest way, but I have
                                not driven in LA in a long time.
                                \_ This can work depending on time of day.
                                   605 can get traffic. 118 literally
                                   never has traffic ever that I have seen.
                                   \_ Getting onto 118 from 405 is DUMB.
                                      The 405/101 junction fucks everyone
                                      one. In short, LA is one of the WORST
                                      \_ Yes, but you aren't on it long.
                                         Of course you know best because
                                         your way took you 2.5 hours.
                                      planned cities I've ever seen and
                                      I hope it gets nuked so that we can
                                      rebuild it from scratch. FUCK LA.
                 \_ You are seriously proposing turing the 33 mile trip
                    into a 57 mile one? Why not take the 134 East through
                    the Valley?
                    \_ Traffic. The fastest distance between two points is
                       not necessarily a straight line. 57 miles at 70 mph
                       is a lot faster than 38 miles at 15 mph.
              \_ Taking your road rage to the motd?
        \_ Obviously what's wrong with the LA metro area is it's got
           a lot of sprawl and has crappy mass transit.
           \_ All traffic problems come down to too many people in too small
              an area with insufficient means of transit (all means) to get
              from any arbitrary A to any B.
              \_ nice tautology.  so what is the implication of rail
                 being able to deliver five times the carrying capacity per
                 land unit?  -tom
                 \_ 5x the capacity is only useful if there are 5x the number
                    of commuters who share a similar route and schedule.
                    You need to solve the real world problem and not a
                    theoretical one based on non-existent distributions of
                    commuters. A train from Pasadena to Santa Monica will
                    be nice, but :
                    1. It will make so many stops along the way it that won't
                       be as fast as it seems.
                    2. Lots of people still need a way to get from the
                       terminal to their jobs. What we see a lot of in LA
                       is people buying *TWO* cars and leaving one at each
                       end of the station. This creates other problems
                       like parking and gridlock near the stations.
                    \_ You're being disingenuous; cities all over the world
                       (including some in the U.S.) have effective rail
                       infrastructures that reduce congestion.  -tom
                       \_ Rail can reduce a certain amount and most major
                          cities/regions have some sort of rail system.  But
                          it is not and can not be the primary method of travel
                          for the majority of people no matter how much you
                          scream "rail! ride bike!" on the motd.
                          \_ Do you need me to list the counterexamples?  -tom
                             \_ Sure, go ahead if it makes you feel better, but
                                no one is going to rebuild our entire country
                                to fit your sardine fantasy lifestyle.  We are
                                spread out because a) most people want space
                                and b) life is more than living in an apartment
                                next to bart so I can get to work.  You can't
                                build a rail system that allows me to get
                                everywhere in a reasonable time.  Please
                                proceed by posting list of EU cities with
                                rail systems and insanely high density rates.
                       \_ Cities all over the world were not built around
                          the automobile. Given that much of the Western
                          US was what do you propose other than forcibly
                          relocating people to create your own utopia? At
                          this very moment rail does not make sense in
                          most of this country given the existing situation
                          and if you build it they may not come for
                          decades during which you run your rail at a
                          tremendous loss.
                          \_ I mostly agree, but if we wait for $10/gallon
                             gasoline first and then start building an alternate
                             transportation infrastructure, we are going to
                             be in a world of hurt. It is not a bad idea to
                             at least imagine what a post-auto world would
                             look like. Then again, maybe by then everyone
                             be driving electric smart cars and we can have
                             our suburbs and clean air to boot. But I don't
                             think we should count on that happening.
                             gasoline first and then start building an
                             alternate transportation infrastructure, we
                             are going to be in a world of hurt. It is not
                             a bad idea to at least imagine what a post-auto
                             world would look like. Then again, maybe by then
                             everyone be driving electric smart cars and we
                             can have our suburbs and clean air to boot. But
                             I don't think we should count on that happening.
                             \_ We can always drive smaller cars. Even tiny
                                motorcycle-like trikes or whatever I think
                                would be more popular than trains. The freedom
                                of cars is not something I think people are
                                going to just give up. We could regulate a
                                small auto weight/size for use within urban
                                zones. I would have no problem using tiny
                                vehicles as long as the safety was there.
                                \_ I agree. I would have a hard time
                                   giving up the freedom of my vehicle.
                                   I'd rather ride a motorcycle than sit
                                   on a train with smelly people.
                          \_ Freeways run at a tremendous loss, too.  It
                             would not be significantly more difficult to
                             put in a rail system than it is to do freeway
                             expansion; it certainly would be easier to do
                             a train crossing than the new Bay Bridge for
                             example.  (And the new Bay Bridge won't even
                             increase capacity!)  If we put in real
                             high-speed rail on the *existing* rail
                             right-of-ways in the Bay Area, and coordinated
                             it all under one agency instead of the mishmash
                             we have now, we'd have a fine system.  It's
                             ridiculous to suggest that it's technically
                             or financially infeasible; the only problem is
                             politics.  -tom
                             \_ It's financially unfeasible and I've told
                                you why, but you keep choosing to ignore me:
                                You have to keep operating the freeways at
                                the same time you build out the other
                                infrastructure and you will probably
                                always have to operate a major highway
                                system in addition to mass transit (e.g.
                                Autobahn in Germany). Where is the cost
                                savings in this? What you get is a savings
                                in time in exchange for the increased cost.
                                If that's the situation then toll roads
                                are a better solution because only those
                                whose time is most valuable are contributing.
                                Besides, I don't think SF is really the issue.
                                It's small and BART works fine for what it is
                                (getting people to<->from downtown). I want to
                                know what you do in Orange County or Ventura
                                where most people are not commuting to<->from a
                                \_ It's not financially infeasible; it's been
                                   done all over the world.  Per
                                   passenger-mile, trains are less expensive
                                   than roads, so any investment you make in
                                   trains instead of roads reduces your
                                   overall costs.  Oh and by the
                                   \_ You are missing my point. You want
                                      to add rail to the existing roads
                                      infrastructure. This is a net expense.
                                      Whether it has been done elsewhere
                                      is irrelevant. Your suggestion will
                                      cost taxpayers more money. I am not
                                      debating whether it will be
                                      beneficial or not. However, it will
                                      be expensive because you cannot
                                      make investments in trains
                                      instead of roads. You will have to
                                      make investment in trains IN
                                      ADDITION TO roads and trains are not
                                      cheap. How much they cost relative
                                      to roads is not relevant because you
                                      still need the roads.
                                      \_ Here's a hint: A huge amount of
                                         money will be spent on NEW ROAD
                                         CONSTRUCTION in the Bay Area in
                                         the next 30 years.  That money
                                         could be spent on rail instead
                                         and provide MORE CAPACITY for the
                                         same amount of money.  -tom
                                         \_ How much new road construction
                                            can there be? It's pretty much
                                            all built out. Is it enough
                                            money to build and maintain a
                                            rail system? How many people
                                            will the rail serve versus the
                                            highway? Capacity is not really
                                            an issue.
                                            \_ What planet are you living on?
                                               There are lanes being added
                                               all over the Bay Area and
                                               they're digging a new bore
                                               of the Caldecott.  -tom
                                               \_ Is it enough to build
                                                  and maintain a rail system?
                                                  How many people will be
                                                  served versus the highway?
                                                  \_ Yes, and more.  At least,
                                                     that's true everywhere
                                                     else in the world and
                                                     there's no reason to
                                                     expect the Bay Area would
                                                     be different.  -tom
                                                     \_ I challenge your
                                                        claim that more
                                                        people would be
                                                        served by spending
                                                        road expansion
                                                        funds on rail than
                                                        on roads, but if
                                                        it's true I support
                                                        your position. I
                                                        just highly doubt it.
                                                        \_ Rail serves more
                                                           per dollar, more
                                                           passenger-miles per
                                                           land unit, more
                                                           passenger-miles per
                                                           energy input and
                                                           carbon output.
                                                           What other measure
                                                           would you use for
                                                           serving people? -tom
                                         \_ Because roads are more useful than
                                            trains.  The invisible hand has
                                            chosen freedom over socialist
                                            \_ Well, no, actually the U.S.
                                               government has heavily
                                               subsidized auto travel, while
                                               requiring the train system
                                               to pay for itself.  If
                                               it hadn't been for government
                                               regulation and intervention,
                                               U.S. cities would still have
                                               decent rail systems.  The hand
                                               was the hand of self-interested
                                               auto-makers, not the market.
                                               And everywhere the government
                                               hasn't heavily subsidized roads,
                                               people choose trains.  Not for
                                               100% of their trips, but for
                                               more than enough to pay off
                                               on the investment.  -tom
                                               \_ BART doesn't pay for itself.
                                                  And when rail is installed
                                                  people don't use it if
                                                  they can avoid it. Most
                                                  people prefer to drive
                                                  if given a choice. If
                                                  rail was a good idea
                                                  then it would be able to
                                                  pay for itself. I have
                                                  no doubt that roads could pay
                                                  for themselves. In fact,
                                                  the toll roads in OC do
                                                  pay for themselves.
                                                  Maybe some day in the
                                                  future there will be so
                                                  much traffic that more
                                                  people will turn to rail
                                                  but we're not even close
                                                  to that day yet so why
                                                  bother with it? Should
                                                  we install infrastructure
                                                  for flying cars now, too?
                                                  \_ Actually, where decent
                                                     rail is installed people
                                                     do use it; do you have
                                                     evidence that they don't?
                                                     \_ Gold Line. It takes an
                                                        hour by rail to
                                                        get where it takes
                                                        20 minutes by car.
                                                        Of course you used
                                                        "decent" as a
                                                        weasel word,
                                                        because any rail
                                                        that people don't
                                                        take is clearly
                                                        not decent.
                                                        \_ Is it high speed?
                                                           No.  -tom
                                                           \_ You aren't
                                                              going to have a
                                                              bullet train
                                                              serve closely
                                                              spaced stations,
                                                              are you? Your
                                                              list of
                                                              requirements is
                                                              \_ Once again
                                                                 with the
                                                                 strawman. -tom
                                   way, the Bay Area was built out on rail
                                   infrastructure.  My house was built in
                                   1916, and it's a block from what used to
                                   be a train station.  Trains went all the
                                   way through the east bay flatlands and
                                   through a tunnel (now closed) to the
                                   further East Bay.  Almost all of SF,
                                   Oakland and Berkeley were built before
                                   the advent of the single-occupant auto.
                                   The trains are gone due to a combination
                                   of perverse incentives and criminal
                                   conspiracy, but it's absurd to suggest
                                   that it's impossible to have rail transit
                                   in the Bay Area.  -tom
                                   \_ Not impossible, but unnecessary and
                                      expensive. And most existing development
                                      in the Bay Area was not done based on
                                      rail. I mean, LA was built on rail
                                      also (Henry Huntington) but let's be
                                      realistic about then vs. now in
                                      terms of existing distribution of
                                      housing, jobs, and retail. Most of
                                      that came post-WW II and was based
                                      on the auto.
                                      \_ Are you interested in the facts at
                                         all?  San Francisco, Oakland, and
                                         Berkeley all hit their population
                                         peaks in 1950, at a time with
                                         relatively low car ownership.
                                         The outlying suburbs would be
                                         much better served by high speed
                                         rail than by, say, driving on 80
                                         through Berkeley.  -tom
                                         \_ Served to do what exactly?  Your
                                            trains are intended for universal
                                            transport without requiring any
                                            auto transport for the general
                                            \_ Why do you keep coming back to
                                               this straw man?  Oh, right,
                                               because you have no facts and
                                               no argument.  -tom
           \_ LA needs more freeways!
        \_ L.A. people check traffic first, then drive:
           \_ We also know to stay the hell off of certain freeways at
              certain times (and some all of the time) if we can help it.
              My girlfriend used to manage runners for the film industry
              and they rarely even took the freeways - even during the middle
              of the day.
              \_ Like I said it's a mystery why people fucking love to
                 live in LA. Smog, rude drivers, traffic. What a shithole.
                 \_ Because weather is overrated.
                 \_ I guess it depends on what's important to you. People
                    from small towns would say the same about SF or any
                    other city and people from cities scoff at people who
                    live in rural areas. Both have advantages, but cities
                    represent more opportunity. LA has a lot more going
                    for it than most cities in many ways. Traffic and parking
                    are issues, same as they are in SF and NYC. I really like
                    SF but to me it's very provincial compared to LA and
                    the weather *does* matter a lot to me.
                 \_ Great cities of the U.S.:
                    New York City, Los Angeles ... and that's about it.
                    \_ NYC >> SF > Chicago >> LA
                    \_ San Jose
                       \_ SF is a footnote of a city. Chicago is a great
                          city, but the weather is terrible. Not that the
                          weather in NYC is great either, but if you have
                          to choose then NYC has the edge.
                             Who is the Global City here?
                             \_ No idea what that means, but on your
                                same web page you will see Chicago
                                scored 10 points and SF scored 9. In
                                reality that's too high, too, but I'm sure they
                                are lumping "Northern California" together
                                into "San Francisco".
                 \_ I totally agree. I absolutely hated LA/UCLA and couldn't
                    wait to move back up here.
                    \_ What you hated was your own situation, not the city.
                       \_ Actually there is some truth to this b/c I totally
                          did not like UCLA. But the fact that LA was always
                          congested, the drivers were rude and the smog did
                          little to help. I just can't imagine why anyone
                          would want to live in LA. The Bay Area is a much
                          nicer place to live (even Fremont).
                          \_ The drivers here are not rude and stupid?  I want
                             to know where you're driving so I can drive there
                             \_ I'm in Cupertino/SJ but I live like 2 miles
                                so I only take local roads during off hours
                                and never see anyone on the streets.
                                from work so I only take local roads during
                                off hours and never see anyone on the streets.
                                When I was driving to Menlo Park via 85-101,
                                I used to have flashbacks to the 405. Still,
                                I much prefer the bay area, at least the
                                traffic moves most of the time.
                    \_ You prefer the yucky fart of Prius loving hippies?
                       \_ To the smog and congestion of LA, yes.
                    \_ If you hate it so much why don't you move now?
2008/2/12-14 [Transportation/Car] UID:49125 Activity:nil
2/12    "Man's '91 pickup passes the 1M-mile mark"
        What's the big deal?  Wasn't there a Volvo that reached 2M-mile mark
        on its original engine?
        \_ People like round numbers.
2008/2/6-7 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:49083 Activity:nil
2/6     Does it cost a lot to replace tires on a Prius?  Do the low-rolloing-
        resistance tires cost more than ordinary tires?
        \- according to my prius associates, it was $600 to replace theirs.
        \_ (
           Get the ComforTreads, comfy and nice, just 2-3MPG less.
2008/1/24-31 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:49005 Activity:nil
1/24    Some hybrid car models shut down the engine when the car is not moving.
        How do you warm up such a car in the morning?
        \_ the car does it for you.
2008/1/8-11 [Transportation/Car] UID:48908 Activity:nil
1/8     "Cell phone users tie up traffic: study"
        Note that the subjects in the study are already using hands-free
        devices, not holding the phones with their hands.
        \_ Even hands free cell drivers are obviously worse drivers.  It
           makes sense.  A conversation with a phone takes a lot more
           concentration (voice only means less information being passed
           so you need to pay closer attention) and the person you are
           talking to doesn't have any cues as to when to halt the
           conversation so you can pay attention to navigating that
           ton+ of steel.
           \_ Agreed.  I feel the same when I use my Bluetooth headset while
              driving.  So I mostly limit my conversation to "Hi.  Whatsup?
              I'm driving right now.  Can I call you back?"  -- OP
        \_ I have sort of the opposite problem--I turn into a bad
           conversationalist when I'm driving.  "What?  Sorry, didn't
           hear that...", long pauses when I don't say anything...
           It's just better not to drive and talk at the same time
           if your situation is at all demanding.
2007/12/25-2008/1/4 [Transportation/Car] UID:48859 Activity:low
12/25   Are NHTSA crash tests reliable?  A crappy car like the 1991 Ford Escort
        without any airbags got 5-star ratings for both driver's side and
        passenger's side!!  (  Could
        that be true!!??  (In contrast, the 2000 Honda Accord with two airbags
        got only 4 stars each.)
        \_ Let's just say that throughout the history of government
           run programs, government agencies are most effective during
           the first decade of their creation.
2007/12/21-29 [Transportation/Car] UID:48847 Activity:nil
12/21   Anybody know of a web site that list all the cars and their final
        assembly location?  I cannot believe how hard it is to find this
        information online.  Car makers do not list it on their web sites
        and it's very hard to find this information.  Thanks.
        \_ It's a bit tedius, but does list manufacturing
           locations.  You have to pick a car, model, and navigate to
           "Reviews & Specs" -> Specs
2007/12/18-20 [Transportation/Car] UID:48827 Activity:nil
12/18   I just learned that there is such a thing as a car "roof scoop."
        Basically, an air intake you put on the roof.  They all appear
        to be fake.  Is there any car that actually uses a roof scoop to do
        something useful?
        \_ Yes.  One of the race cars I drive has one.  When I drove it at
           Altamont this summer, we were grateful for every last bit of
           ventilation we could get.  I understand it's quite common on rally
2007/12/14-20 [Transportation/Car] UID:48802 Activity:nil
12/13   Fake parking tickets story: (SF Gate)
        \_ Wasn't someone on the motd complaining about a quasi legal parking
           ticket?  Here's more:
           \_ This is actually more relevant to that Regional Parking Inc.
              thing than I previously thought. Thank you; I'm definitely _not_
              paying them now.
2007/12/11-14 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:48784 Activity:high
12/11   Are vehicle crash test results reliable?  Looking at the crash test
        video at it looks like the
        dummies bounces around randomly.  Is it reliable to conclude, based on
        one test run, that a certain vehicle is or is not safe during crashes?
        \_ I believe they do multiple test runs.  Between the auto, legal,
           insurance and medical industries, car wrecks are a multi-billion
           dollar event every year.  They can afford to wreck a few.  Instead
           of looking at a single video clip and deciding for yourself based
           on dummies bouncing around, check out the final stats for each
           vehicle.  Or just buy a large SUV if you just want to be sure.
           \_ Thanks.  I already have an SUV.  I'm trying to buy a small car
              to burn less gas.  -- OP
              \_ If you want 'safe' you can't drive a small car.  "Kept'n!
                 I kanna break tha lawsuv physics!"
                 \_ If mass was all there were to it, then pickup trucks
                    would be the safest vehicles around, but they aren't.
                    Nowadays, it is more important to have good braking
                    sytems, full surround air bags, etc. Mass helps, but
                    is not the only answer. Don't SUVs roll over alot and
                    kill their occupants that way?
                    \_ There is this paragraph:
                       "Clearly, larger cars tend to have fewer fatalities.
                       But remember to put these figures into perspective.
                       These figures are comparing the differences **per
                       million registered vehicles**."
                       What is it saying?  I don't get it.
                       What does it mean by putting the figures into
                       perspective?  I don't get it.
                       \_ I think they mean that the most important piece
                          of safety equipment is an alert, capable driver.
                          The smallest car, driven by a skillful driver
                          is safer than a huge SUV driven by an idiot.
2007/12/7-13 [Transportation/Car] UID:48762 Activity:nil
12/7    Parked in the Kwik Way parking lot to do some local shopping, and
        came back to find a sort of ticket on my car: "Invoice Parking Fee
        Imposed." The ticket specifically says "This parking charge is not
        issued by the City." Has anyone here ever had one of these, and do
        I have to pay or can I just blow it off? It has my license plate
        number on it. The issuing company is
        \_ I've heard both sides. Some said that they can't really do anything
           unless you park there again (get it towed) while others say they
           can sick collection agencies on you, possibly ruining your credit
                   \_ [sic]
        \_ Sounds to me like you trespassed on their property and now they
           want you to pay. How much is the fine?
           \_ $35.
        \_ Answering my own question: jury's out on whether they can pursue
           the charges. Some information:
  (EastBay Express, look for Gordon story)
           I think I'll take the risk.
2007/12/2-6 [Transportation/Car] UID:48731 Activity:high
12/2    Is there a big difference in quality of gas sold between brand name and
        generic gas stations?
        \_ Not enough to pay extra for it.
        \_ Supposedly not, but my car runs like crap when I put cheap gas
           in it. I prefer Chevron if given a choice. I go out of my way
           to avoid Arco/BP if I can help it and I never buy true generic
           gas (like Costco or Thrifty or whatever). Next time you buy
           something at the grocery store compare the ingredients in the name
           brand with those in generic brand. Sometimes they are identical,
           though not usually. Once in while the generic is actually superior.
           Most of the time the generic is inferior. Why would you assume
           any differently about any other product, including gas?
           \_ So, are you saying that he bas sold at BP brabded gas stations
              is not as good as say Shell?
              \_ It seems not based on how my car runs. YMMV.
           \_ You can STFW, but gas stations are all basically supplied the
              same gas (you can't really build a budget oil refinery),
              with the difference being the proprietary additives.
              \_ Yes, and the additives make a difference. So, too, might
                 storage (lots of gunk in the tank) or other variables.
                 \_ Well, now, that's not so clear. But you certainly hope
                    they do if you're willing to pay for them.
                    \_ I go by what my manufacturer (BMW) recommends:
                       Notice BP and Exxon are not recommended. If you do
                       research you will see Chevron (who holds a lot of
                       patents for this stuff) and Shell (supposedly just
                       released a new product) recommended over and over
                       again. I also read that the EPA uses Chevron for
                       its tests, going so far as to bring it in especially
                       from Kentucky because it's not sold in Ohio.
                       \_ Who operates this web site?
                          \_ The gas companies who are members.
                             \_ That speaks for its credibility.
                                \_ Huh? The gas companies that choose to meet
                                   the standards set by certain auto
                                   makers call themselves "Top Tier".
                                   Companies may meet the standards and
                                   not participate or they can choose not
                                   to meet the standards. Participation is
                                   voluntary, but that doesn't mean the
                                   standards and participants are not credible.
                                   \_ Is there more background behind this
                                      certification? A website run by
                                      Denny, Jim ( seems
                                      slightly less than professional.
                                      \_ Why? Do you know him?
                                         If you look at the address of the
                                         registered company (National
                                         Products Group in Tulsa, OK) you
                                         will see it is QuikTrip.
                                         \_ AOL is so early 90s and screams
                                            one-man job, and incompetent
                                            one-man job at that. I don't see
                                            how you connect QuikTrip to this
                                            outfit, nor why I should consider
                                            QuikTrip to be an unbiased source.
                                            \_ Look at the postal address. Who
                                               said QuikTrip needs to be
                                               unbised? I don't understand
                                               your skepticism. A few
                                               automakers joined together
                                               and came up with some
                                               standards. Gas companies
                                               (including QuikTrip) can
                                               choose to meet them or not
                                               in a self-certifying process
                                               that does involve random
                                               3rd party testing. Exxon
                                               claims they meet the standard
                                               but they don't want the hassle
                                               of certifying. That's fine,
                                               so they aren't on the list.
                                               The companies that *are* on
                                               the list meet the automakers'
                                               standards. Other ones may or
                                               may not. What are you
                                               concerned about here?!
               \_ It think there's a few issues.
                  1) use of alcohol in the gas: most stations now use up to
                     10% ethanol, but some don't (e.g. I think Chevron often
                     doesn't). Ethanol gives you worse mileage and runs worse.
                     \_ I thought the ethanol percent was mandated by law?
                        \_ I don't know, I guess maybe it will be. Which is
                           FUCKING STUPID of course. Fuck US agribusiness
                  2) turnover. sometimes low-priced popular gas stations are
                     actually better because the gas doesn't sit around as
                     long when they sell more than the expensive place across
                     the street.
                  3) proprietary additives, which I can't really comment on
                     (Techron, blah blah)
2007/11/29-12/6 [Transportation/Car] UID:48713 Activity:low
        The next generation skates on land.
        Skates (50s) -> Rollerblade (80s) -> Landroller (21st century)
        \_ see also
        \_ Looks pretty rough on the ankles.  BTW, in-line skates existed
           before quad skates--they were modeled after ice skates.
           \_ how is this rougher on the ankles than say, rollerblades?
              \_ With the support point off to the side, I'd expect a torque,
                 but maybe the support boot puts that on the leg instead of the
                 \_ The point where the wheels make contact with the ground is
                    below the center of the feet, not to the sides.  So this
                    should be no different from rollerblades as far as torque
                    is concerned.
                    \_ Uh no.  The point that they connect to the foot is on
                       the side, so regardless of where they go after that,
                       it's the side of the foot that's holding you up.
                       \_ Wait, now that I look more closely, it looks like the
                          the support point is in the middle.  My bad.
                          \_ So, does this fact support of dispute the
                             idea that it is better/worse for your ankle
                                -not a skater, no idea what all this means
                             \_ I retract my concerns about ankles.
           \_ I thought so too, but the testimonials page says otherwise:
              "the out-of-line design seems to take the strain offf my ankles
               [no wobbles]..."
           \_ Look at that hot chick in white bikini and white helmet!!
           \_ Look at that hot busty chick in white bikini and white helmet!!
              Er ...... ankle?  What?  What did you say?
2007/11/11-15 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:48602 Activity:nil
11/11   "A century ago, automobiles were viewed as friends of the environment;
        they were much cleaner than horses. In 1900, for example, New York
        City horses deposited over 2.5 million pounds of manure and 60,000
        gallons of urine on the streets. About 15,000 dead horses also had
        to be removed from the city streets each year. The motorcar promised
        to eliminate such animal waste."
        Save the environment, drive a car!
        \_ Why didn't anybody win the Nobel Prize for taking carriages around,
           and lecturing on the Dangers of the Coming Horse Shit Crisis?
           \_ There was no Nobel Peace Prize back in 1900.
              \_ It's a good thing our society found a way to recognize
                 prescient Malthusians like Al Gore.  Without them, we would
                 all be drowning in horse shit now.
        \_ Cars today are still much cleaner than horses today.  They are just
           not clean enough.
2007/11/7-9 [Transportation/Car] UID:48567 Activity:nil
11/6    GM lost $39B dollars.
        \_ Damn!  Someone needs to get at least a $500 million severance
           package for that!  Where do I sign up?
        \_ Clearly, there's a libural conspiracy to increase public
           transportation and to increase oil prices. GM lost $39B
           thanks to liburals.
2007/11/7-9 [Transportation/Car] UID:48563 Activity:nil
11/7    Why are there so many police pursuits in S Cal?
        \_ I was going through Oakland when some guy being chased by 6 cops
           tried to hide in traffic.  It was just like TV.  Except for the
           part where his car didn't fly off a cliff and explode in mid-air.
        \_ Huge freeways, poor public transport, and a lot of meth.
           \_ You're missing blacks and hispanics.      -racist but true
2007/11/1-5 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:48516 Activity:moderate
        "Each car costs about $15,000 to convert. The program is being funded
        by the California Energy Commission and the state Air Resources Board."
        God damn idiots.
        \_ Dude it's a test.  Those things cost more.  Moving to all
           electrical power means you have centralized power production.
           Which means less waste, less emissions and less spillage.  (If you
           fill up a tank of gas and spill a few drops that's as much
           pollution as burning the whole thing given our good smog
           regulations.)  In the scheme of things 10 cars at 15k each is
           nothing.  Start caring about stuff that matters.
           \_ laugh.. batteries are the dirtiest things on the planet
              it also takes a lot of energy to make batteries, to make
              eletricity, tons of nasty chemicals to make computer chips
              to control these things.
              \_ Can you point me to research on the effects of batteries
                 and chips in aggregate vs. the effects of fossil fuels in
                 aggregate?  It's a nice bit of devil's advocacy there, but
                 where's the beef? -dans
                 \_ Chips?  Or Crisps?  Or French Fries?
                    \_ Freedom Fries
           \_ That's a huge cost. There are much more cost-effective ways to
              reduce emissions. There's no reason to test this, it's nothing
              new: it's just using really expensive batteries. Total waste.
              It's 100 cars, not 10.
              How about just simply buying modern, cost-effective, efficient
              small cars with conventional diesel technology? Offer people
              high trade-in deals for their old polluting cars.
              \_ No, it's not a huge cost.  Seriously.  The tests are
                 expensive.  The batteries are expensive.  Tech goes down
                 in price.  And read the article.  10 cars.  100 families.
                 8 weeks each.
                 \_ Ok fine, I didn't see that. Still an utter waste of
                    effort if you ask me. What will we learn from this
                    program? Why should CA funds be used for this rather
                    than say Toyota's?
                    \_ Because it is in California's long range interest.
                       As I said, the money involved is pretty damn minor.
                       Start actually looking at what is spent where and
                       start caring about things that actually matter.
                       Let me give you a hint.  In general state funded
                       grants are a benefit to society.
                       \_ Really?  Where do I sign up for my grant?  I would
                          like to benefit society.
                          \_ You welcome to write all the grant applications
                             you want.  However you'd better have a good
                             explanation of what the money will be spent on,
                             as grant fraud is frowned upon.  Oh wait, you
                             are just talking out of your ass aren't you?
                             \_ Gee being frowned upon would be horrible.
                                Anyway, I'd like to hereby frown upon this
                                hybrid grant.
                                \_ I frown upon your frowning upon their
                                   frowning upon the general frowning upon.
                             \_ Grant proposal to give me lots of cash to
                                provide benefits to society: You (the gvt)
                                give me (the recipient) lots of other people's
                                money you don't care about (tax payers) to
                                live a life of luxury and slack.  Goal: one
                                less grumpy tax payer.  Improvement to society
                                is lessening of grumpiness among citizens. Why
                                do you think my grant proposal requires me to
                                commite fraud?  You're so cynical.
                                commit fraud?  You're so cynical.
        \_ for that same extra $15k you could buy a small electric NEV like
           say Xebra to use instead of the prius for 'short trips'.  And
           then still have the prius.
           \_ Yes, if the tech never gets cheaper than $15k it will never
              be a real solution.  However the tech WILL get cheaper than
           \_ or 100 cheap bikes!  And none of them would use any gas or
               electricity at all.  RIDE BIKE!!!
              \_ You're an anti-environmental terrorist!  If you truly cared
                 about the environment you wouldn't ride a bike.  You'd walk.
                 Do you have any idea how much energy went into designing,
                 marketing, producing, and shipping your bike?  Then there will
                 be repairs and the entire industry behind the spare parts
                 mill.  And then you'll eventually get a new one and the cycle
                 of death continues!  If you loved this planet you would walk.
                 \_ Are you walking bare-foot, or are you walking with shoes
                    and socks that also required energy for designing,
                    marketing, producing, and shipping?
                    \_ Duh, no of course not.  That's why your feet will get
                       tougher over a short period of time.  Before the modern
                       era you think cavemen wore Nike's?  Sheesh, get over
                       your big bad modern environmentally destructive self.
                       Ride Bike! if you want to rape the Earth.  USE FEET!
                       if you're at one with the planet's life energies.
                    \_ everyone already has shoes and clothing so it's
                    an overlap
                       \_ The more you walk, the faster the shoes wear out.
                          -- PP
                          \_ ditto with bikes but less parts to repair
                             \_ But which one costs less per mile?
                                \_ probably the bike, if you're trying to
                                   optimize for cost/resource saving.  A
                                   cheesy racing bike is expensive to maintain,
                                   but a good touring bike is quite cheap. -tom
                                   \_ earth hater.
                          \_ The more you live, the faster you will die.
                          \_ the more you drive, the less intelligent you are.
                                - Miller, the Repo Man.
        \_ has been building the same thing.
           \_ yes, but in Los Angeles.
           \_ yes, but ONLY in Los Angeles.
2007/10/16-17 [Transportation/Car] UID:48336 Activity:moderate
10/16   My car's gas light came on as I approached my company's parking
        lot this morning. My home is 14 mils away. Do I have enough
        gas to drive to the gas station near my house? It's all
        highway. I hate to drive around my company after work to look
        for gas station... Thanks!
        \_ If you have a newer car (>1999) it will tell you approximately how
           many miles 'range' you have left and you don't have to guess.
           You can probably make it 14 miles, but I'd stop and get gas.
           Use this Internet thing to find the closest gas station.
           \_ Or the low-tech way -- stop at a grocery store and ask.
        \_ most cars have quite a bit of gas left when the low fuel indicator
           light comes on. however it varies  from car to car.  Check your
           manual to find out.   From my experience, you should have plenty
           of gast to make 14 miles, unles you waste it along the way (stop'n'
           go traffic, running AC, etc). But, as always, YMMV -ERic
        \_ My gas light in my 2003 toyota corolla goes on when 10 gallons
           of the 12 or 13 gallon tank are used up.  Assuming that last
           2-3 gallons are accessible, I have between 30-90 miles of range.
           of the 13.2 gallon tank are used up.  Assuming that last
           3.2 gallons are accessible, I have between 30-90 miles of range.
           \_ The ONLY thing that really matters is your oil level.
              Check your oil, and if you have enough, go ahead and drive.
              If not, then you'll get a piston melt-down and you'll need
              to spend $3000 to replace then engine.
              \_ Cars tend not to move too well when they don't have gas.
                 \_ Oh you're right, I thought he op was refering to the
                    "CHECK ENGINE" light. Nevermind. Yeah in most Jap cars
                    you've got AT LEAST 25miles left when the light is on.
2007/10/14-17 [Transportation/Car] UID:48310 Activity:nil
        Skating on Nissan Qashqai Commercial. Pretty interesting.
        \_ I like to imagine car commercials with their subject replaced
           by a Yugo. Usually it still works as the ad has nothing
           specific to the subject. Cars driving across water, cars sliding
           slow motion through mud, someone driving it around corners
           with a grin on their face, driving it at night in a city
           with techno music playing, skating on it, successful-looking
           businessman driving it... all works with a Yugo.
           \_ A Yugo would fall apart halfway through most of those shots.
              \_ But imagine the guy taking the tight corner in a Yugo with
                 a grin on his face as it falls apart around him and he's left
                 in the grass with just a seat belt and steering wheel, like
                 bad slap stick.
2007/9/28-10/3 [Transportation/Car] UID:48209 Activity:high
9/28    Remember, Thugs on Wheels today!  Be sure to be armed if you're driving
        in SF.
        \_ Ride bike!
        \_ if you are driving, you already are armed with a perfectly effective
           \_ So if it is acceptable for a bike rider to smash my windows and
              break my car in other ways, is it ok for me to get out of the
              car and as a pedestrian, kick in their spokes and break their
              handlebars?  As a pedestrian I'm far more green than any bike
              rider.  Just curious.  ;-)
              \_ The first is not acceptable. It follows, then, that the second
                 is also not acceptable.
                 \_ The last time it came up on the motd all sorts of people
                    defended smashing a minivan.  You think the smashers and
                    the motd posters were wrong?
                    \_ The last time it came up, all sorts of people pointed
                       out that the Matier+Ross version of the story made
                       no sense, and that what obviously happened is that
                       the driver drove into a group of bicyclists and hit
                       one and they retaliated.  That's not the same as
                       saying it's OK to smash a minivan.  -tom
                       \_ Where "all sorts of people" = tom
                       \_ Assuming your version is correct: do you think it
                          was OK for the bikers to retaliate (your word) and
                          smash the minivan?
                          \_ I think as long as there is still the threat of
                             dangerous and violent behavior on the part of
                             the driver, the victims are justified in
                             fighting back.
                             fighting back.   -tom
                             \_ *laugh* Thanks.  I've had a long day but you've
                                just brought some unintended humor to it.  I'm
                                sure that soccer mom came into the city with
                                killin' on her mind and blood on the wheels!
                                Yeehaww, *squick!* another biker down, Paw!
           \_ Yeah, that's what the Thugs say.
              \_ You didn't get breast fed enough, right?
           \_ Perhaps, but it's not terribly selective.  If someone is smashing
              in your windshield, it'd be nice to target him, rather than
              everyone in front of you.
              \_ You got beat up a lot in high school and still feel the
                 need to prove to the world how hard you are, right?
                 \_ Nope.
                 \_ Huh?
              \_ I would think that if they were smashing in your windshield,
                 it was because you had targeted them and hit a little too hard.
                 \_ If you hit them with a car they're not getting back up so
                    \_ one of the points of Critical Mass is that there's more
                       than one of them.
                       \_ that is why bumpers are wide.  squish.
        \_ If you plan on coming to The City to commit crimes, please stay
           in your own community and do it there. Thanks. -SF Citizen
           \_ yeah, especially all you people parking illegally and speeding
              on the freeways.
           \_ Yes, we *would* like Critical Mass to stay out of SF.  Defending
              yourself against thugs on wheels isn't a crime.  Nor is carrying
              a weapon if you have a permit.
              \_ Oh you are SO hard.  Can I please have sex with you right now?
              \_ yeah, so car drivers should beware when they do stupid shit
                 like try to drive through a pack of cyclists.
                 \_ which gives us the right to smash their minivans attacking
                    old people and moms with kids who clearly came in to the
                    city looking for trouble.  next time we'll kill their dogs
                    too.  stay off our streets, we own them!  woot!
                    \_ actually, yes, I think it is completely reasonable
                       to take physical action against someone who
                       intentionally ran over multiple people and is trying
                       to run over more (as was captured on video in the
                       Berkeley case).  -tom
                       \_ Oh you mean that edited video where you have to really
                          imagine hard to see that? Only the real kool-aid
                          drinkers came to that conclusion.
                          \_ The video was not edited.  The van wound up
                             on top of two bikes with the van wheel off the
                             But, forget it, you're just trolling.  -tom
                             \_ The report said, "gave us this edited video."
                                Which flavor do you prefer, grape or cherry?
                                \_ The video of the incident is continuous.
                                   \_ So you've seen the part where the car
                                      enters the group, and the part where the
                                      biker smashes the windshield?  Link
                                        The windshield smashing wasn't captured
                                        by the video because the camera was
                                        pointed elsewhere, but it clearly
                                        happened after the van driver
                                        intentionally ran over two bicyclists
                                        in front of him.   -tom
                                        \_ "Get em!  Get em now!  We've got
                                           soccer practice back in the burbs
                                           in 45 minutes!"
                                           \_ Nice dodge.  -tom
                                              \_ Wasn't it a Ford?
              \_ Do *you* actually live in San Francisco? -SFC
        \_ This all reminds me of the toxic comments on the articles on
  .  There is no way 90 percent of those people live
           anywhere near San Francisco.
2007/9/21-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:48148 Activity:nil
9/20    This couldn't possibly go wrong
        (dumping subway cars to create artificial reefs)
        \_ This is a good example of how the carbon credit system is kind of
           a scam at this point; there's no regulation, so companies can get
           paid "carbon credit" money for dumping iron in the ocean because
           it might encourage plankton growth, and other sorts of questionable
           tactics.  -tom
           \_ Dumping iron filing rust did indeed create a plankton bloom in
              iron-poor areas.  The advantage with plankton is that when they
              die, they sink to the bottom, sequestering away the carbon.
              Unfortunately, who knows what else it might cause.  Oh, and of
              course methane and water vapor are far worse than CO2.
              \_ Well, that's the thing; the things done in the name of
                 carbon reduction haven't necessarily been researched in terms
                 of the entire cost/benefit.  Yet companies can get money
                 for doing environmentally dubious things.  -tom
           \_ Actually, dumping iron filing rust did indeed create a plankton
              bloom in iron-poor areas.  The advantage with plankton is that
              when they die, they sink to the bottom, sequestering away the
              carbon.  Unfortunately, who knows what else it might cause.  Oh,
              and of course methane and water vapor are far worse than CO2.
        \_ It worked great with tires!
2007/9/19-22 [Transportation/Car] UID:48113 Activity:low 78%like:48100
        Rather than getting a taser (which requires background check which
        I will
        spray instead. Totally kick ass.
        \_ Uh, hostile liquid projectile that shoot out at 270MPH is not
           safe, is it? At that speed, a liquid is as hard as concrete
           is for law enforcement only; this thing is too deadly for
           civilian use.
           \_ Nice liberal sheep - must let others protect me from me.
        \_ I once accidentally pepper sprayed myself.  Just the littlest
           bit.  That stuff fucking SUCKS.
           \_ How did you accidentally pepper spray yourself?
            \_ Ooh, what's this on your keychain?  Hey look it has a
               button like thing on it!  Tap button.  Curse a lot.
               What can I say, sometimes I'm not too bright.
        \_ I was pepper sprayed by police once in a night club parking
           lot...that shit hurts!  -sky
           \_ Why were you sprayed? Were you acting like a jerk?
              \_ I suppose.  Someone parked his M3 in front of my friends
                 car preventing us from leaving, so we all picked up his car
                 to move it, then the other people came out and there was
                 a huge fight.  I couldnt open my eyes for about an hour.
        \_ Why wouldn't you pass a background check? Are you sure you
           should be carrying pepper spray?
           \_ Uh, speeding tickets? Two unpaid parking tickets? And
              a domestic dispute on record. And also a restraining order
              but that was 10 years ago so I'm not sure how much they'll
              take it into account. What do you guys think?     -op
              \_ I think 10 years ago is long enough. I assume you are
                 sure you won't go ballistic with it, right? -pp
                 \_ No of course not! I just need to pay someone a visit
                    that's all. Thanks for your advice I'll go ahead and
                    pay $10 for the background check and let you know how
                    it goes.
2007/9/17-18 [Transportation/Car] UID:48087 Activity:nil
9/16    Buick commercial I just saw:
        "Subtitle: Faster than Mercedes 280"
        "Subtitle: More spacious than BMW 318i"
        "Subtitle: Cheaper than Lexus LS430"
        "Subtitle: More options than Altima"
        This is such a stupid commercial, why the hell would anyone buy
        a Buick?
        \_ Ask someone in China.
        \_ Because it's faster than Mercedes 280, more spacious than
           BMW 318i, cheaper than Lexus LS430, and comes with more
           options than Altima?  :^)
        \_ Dumb cars attract dumb people.
           TUNDRA, THINK BIG THINK BOLD!!! and Mustang, all muscle
           no brain.
2007/9/15-22 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:48080 Activity:nil
9/15    I have a rc car from about 2 -3 years ago, the "Vertigo Super Top".
        The battery pack is shot and I can't find the manufacturer or
        any hobby store online that sells a 4x2 hump pack.  Are there any
        rc fans here who can point me to a reputable hobby shop, online
        instructions for building my own, or anything else that might get
        my car going again?  Thanks!
           \_ They didn't have a pre-build that fits and I'm not sure enough
              of what I need to have them custom build it.  I found the
              manufacturer in China and sent them an email.  Maybe I'll get
              lucky and they've still have some sitting around.  Thanks.
        \_ An RC fan friend of mine says is good if this
           is for racing, otherwise, he recommends ebay.
           \_ I ended up buying a second car of the same model from ebay
              which is supposed to be new-in-box with the charger and more
              batteries.  With the new charger I hope I'll be able to charge
              the old batteries and have 2 cars.  If not, I've got the one
              car at least.  Thanks and tell your friend thanks, too.
2007/9/12-14 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Jobs] UID:48033 Activity:nil
9/12    Woz sells 350Z to raise money for Cal
2007/9/8-10 [Transportation/Car] UID:47954 Activity:nil
9/8     Any good comments regarding the new VW Rabbit? Or should I
        avoid VW altogether (due to previous VW bashing on motd)?
2007/9/1-3 [Transportation/Car, Health] UID:47870 Activity:moderate
8/31    People of Earth, I encourage everyone to to report
        handicapped parking placard abusers.  I really loathe them
        \_ I know someone who, as a result of an old car injury, often is
           in debilitating pain when he walks.  He's a bit of a stoic and
           you probably would never realize how much pain an extra block or
           two of walking can cause him.  He has a handicapped placard, and,
           when things are bad, uses it.  Assholes like you have screamed at
           him for being a horrible person abusing the system.  So please,
           go fuck yourself.
           \_ If he can put up with debilitating pain, he can put up with
              people screaming at him.
        \_ There are much more important things to worry about, like the
           gay people problem, tax rate too high and I don't want to support
           poor and lazy people, and state sponsored abortion clinics.
           \- the individual case isnt a big deal, but the aggregate
           \_ that's hysterical-  the "gay people problem?"  Is the problem
              that they exist?  Because you may have just become an entertaining
                dinosaur that people torment for fun.
              that they exist?  Because you may have just become an
              entertaining dinosaur that people torment for fun.
           \-exist the individual case isnt a big deal, but the aggregate
              makes a difference. i believe in SF there are more handicapped
              placards issued than there are parking meters ... not that
              those number should be magically related, but the number is
              SF seems crazy: around 50k for a city of 750k pop. i think the
              city should spend more resource on this compared to say street
              sweeping tickets. serious question: do you think anybody over
              say 75 or 300lbs should be able to say "i am old/fat, give me a
              handicapped placard"? --not OP
           \_ Passable troll there... but really, people who park
              all day in the handicap zone with a placard they dont
              deserve anger me more than abortion, homos, libtards,
              and YOU.
2007/8/24-27 [Transportation/Car] UID:47745 Activity:low
8/24    If only I had an extra $250k sitting around:
        \_ If only you had an extra several million sitting around.
           If you had only a spare $250K and spent it on a fucking car
           your patheticness would be legion.
           \_ If it was an extra 250k it would be "extra".  Maybe your idea
              of extra is different than mine.
              \_ I just have a lot better things to blow my extra 250k on than
                 a car.  Several million dollars worth of better things even.
                 \_ Oh yeah? Like what? I'm going to drive my $250k around
                    my island. What are you doing with yours?
2007/8/23 [Transportation/Car] UID:47717 Activity:nil 73%like:47712
8/22    There are car insurance companies.  There are car insurance
        brokers.  Is there any reason for me to go through a broker (and
        Why not just go directly to the car insurance
        company site?  Opinions?
        \_ I guess it's the same as mortgage companies vs. mortgage brokers.
2007/8/22-23 [Transportation/Car] UID:47712 Activity:kinda low 73%like:47717
8/22    There are car insurance companies.  There are car insurance
        brokers.  When I go to the car insurance broker office, she
        pulls up a little web interface to search for rates.
        Is there any reason for me to go through a broker (and
        per her fee)?  Why not just go directly to the car insurance
        company site?  Opinions?
        \_ I guess it's the same as mortgage companies vs. mortgage brokers.
2007/8/21-23 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:47679 Activity:low
8/21    Wow, all I can say is "fugly"!
        \_ Interesting. The Accord and Camry did a flip-flop. It used to
           be the case that the Accord appealed to the younger crow. The
           new Camry has an aggressive style to appeal to the younger
           generation while pushing older crowd to their Lexus lines,
           while the new Accord has gotten a much more mature look.
           \_ It seems to me that for more than a decade, Camry's look has
              always been following the Lexus sedan's look from one or two
              model year earlier.
        \_ V-6 6-sp manual coupe gets 16/25mpg.  Gee, this is worse than my
           2004 Toyota Sienna 8-passsenger van!
        \_ As usual the couple looks much better than the sedan.
        \_ Will people think I am gay if I buy a mini? -- ilyas
           \_ Mark Wahlberg drove one in The Italian Job, and he played John
              Holmes in Boogie nights.
2007/8/20-21 [Transportation/Car, Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:47674 Activity:nil
2007/8/19-20 [Transportation/Car, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:47659 Activity:high
08/20   I drive a 90s Japanese automobile, and I live in the
        bay area, where the weather just isn't that bad.  What
        sort of motor oil should I be using?
        \_ weather is irrelevant in the Bay Area where temperature

           and humidity swing are minimal. More importantly, you should
           be CONSISTENT with the motor oil you use (stick to one brand,
           one type, and change on a consistent schedule). 90s car require
           oil change every 3K miles. A decent brand 10W/30 does the job.
2007/8/7-12 [Transportation/Car] UID:47556 Activity:nil
8/7     Servlet question. Let's say my servlet creates a session, and
        after timeout the servlet engine automatically invalidates the
        session. Is there a way to hook up the invalidation so that it'll
        call something like "MyOwnDataStructure.cleanup(session)" when
        the session has timed-out/invalidated? Thanks.
        \_ servlet spec 2.3 has HttpSessionListener interface.  Then it's
           up to the servlet engine to how you register this listener.
2007/7/30-8/3 [Transportation/Car] UID:47472 Activity:nil
7/30    Wiimote used to measure car's performance:
2007/7/24-28 [Transportation/Car] UID:47403 Activity:low
7/24    Looking to buy a new car.  I'm going to buy a luxury car this time
        to replace my 10 year old Toyota Camry.  Thinking of spending around
        40-50K.  I'm looking at Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, and Acura.  I know the
        reliability and quality of Lexus and Acura cars, but I don't have much
        info on Mercedes or BMW.  Have their quality improved in the past
        10 years?  I keep hearing about problems with the lower end MB or
        BMW cars like the C class or the 3 series.  What about the MB E series
        or the BMW 5 series?  Also I've been reading the discussion forum
        messages on Lexus RX and GS series.  A lot of people have problems
        with rattle noises or other small problems.  How much should one
        believe those stories?  Can one dismiss those messages as coming from
        vocal minorities?  I really liked the GS series but some of the
        messages I read are worrisome.  Thanks.
        \_ Get a Lexus SC430. Why? Because if you're looking for a luxury
           car and have had your oh-so-boring family car for a while,
           chances are, you've been married for a while, had kid(s), and
           stopped having sex. You're looking for a luxury car to spice up
           your life, ya? Get a SC430, you're guaranteed to get attention
           from mature women (late 20s) and upwards.
        \_ They should all be ok. I think safety, handling, looks, resale
           value all outweigh reliability concerns with these cars. I would
           expect MB to have more problems related to electronic doodads
           (based on hearsay).
        \_ Fuck Lexus.  get this
        \_ Which luxury car model has the best gas mileage?
        \_ I have a 2006 Lexus IS350 and a 2000 BMW 3 series. The Lexus needed
           a new transmission after just 3 months of driving. It had 2800 miles
           on it. It's a nice car that gets good mileage, but it's
           worrisome to have such a major problem so soon. The BMW hasn't
           had such a major problem, but it has had a litany of small
           problems like window regulators. I have put 100K miles on it.
           Stay away from Audi and MB. That leaves Acura. Only problem with
           Acura is that it's a rather boring car. Is this a car you are going
           to keep another 10 years or a car you will get rid of once the
           warranty expires?
        \_ Just stay away from MB.  I know a foreman who runs a dealership
           repair shop and according to him, they're crap.  They have too
           many electrical problems.
           \_ They were the best cars made 15-20 years ago, but not anymore.
              My mother-in-law has an S-class and my sister's bf has a CLS
              and they constantly have problems. Latest is that the air
              conditioning stopped working. In a 2004 car! It was fixed
              under warranty, but what a PITA. What happens when the
              warranty runs out?!
              \_ Then you pay $2k to fix it just like any other car.
                 \_ Hah! Dude, you pay $2K to fix something small and like
                    $6K to fix a real problem - and there are going to be
                    more of them than for the average car. I once took my
                    Accord in and had everything done to it - water pump,
                    radiator, CV boot, plugs, brakes, timing belt, etc. It
                    cost $1K. For a BMW you will spend $450 just to fix a
                    window regulator. I am sure Mercedes is the same. A
                    typical car is not $1-2K every time you bring it in,
                    but a BMW or Mercedes sure is.
        \_ In the last few years, MB has been battling it out with Volkswagen
           for the very lowest spot in the Consumer Reports Reliabilty survey.
           BMW is better.  My 2000 MB E320 has been uber reliable (now at
           84,000 miles) but I treat my cars very gently.  Note that 2000 was
           the one of the last years MB had good reliability.  Both BMW and
           Lexus are going to get clobbered by Acura and Lexus in reliability.
           BMW has the "iDrive" system which is universally loathed.
        \_ Have you looked at Infinity G and M series?
2007/7/18-20 [Transportation/Airplane, Transportation/Car] UID:47325 Activity:high
7/18    Can we put anti-lock brakes on airplanes?  This may prevent landing
        accidents in rainy weather.
        \_ You would think most of the braking comes from the reverse
           \_ Then the crash in Brazil shouldn't have been caused by the rain.
              You'd be surprised that this hasn't exactly been perfected.
        \_ would it surprise you to hear that anti-lock braking systems were
           originally developed for use on airplanes?
           \_ By SUPERiOR German engineers?
           \_ Yes I'm surprised.  How come commercial airliners don't have it?
            \_ Antilock brakes help when your tires are your main braking
               force.  Commericial airliners do not brake via tire friction.
               There isn't nearly enough tire to slow down a big ass 747.
               \_ Yeah, but it's not just about brakeing.  It's also about
               \_ Yeah, but it's not just about braking.  It's also about
                  controling the direction.  When the tires skit the plane can
                  veer off the runway.  These accidents have been on the news
2007/7/16-19 [Transportation/Car, Consumer/Camera] UID:47299 Activity:moderate
7/16    Is there a place to report people who illegally laminate license
        plates of their vehicles trying to avoid being caught by red light
        \_ Is there a place we can complain about the poor timing of
           traffic lights that would cause people to run red lights?
           \_ Some engineer who was ticketed by the traffic light camera at
              Alvarado Niles Rd cross H St in Union City actually won the case
              in court and got someone to change the timing of the light.  I
              don't know who was responsible for the timing though.
           \_ Ditto.  Northbound Shattuck turning onto University light seems
              to have gotten much shorter since they installed the camera.
              I see the flash going off almost every time I'm driving through
              it (on someone else, not me.)  I wonder what percentage of those
              flashes actual end up being ticketed?
        \_ Not a central place, no. You could contact your local DPT.
        \_ You could just shoot them.  Why do you care?
           \_ I just think that a speedning Mustang with a laminated plate
           \_ I just think that a speeding Mustang with a laminated plate
              probably tends to run red lights.  I just want him/her to get
              caught when he/she actually does.
              \_ Mythbusters tested various techniques.  The camera gets you
                 \_ Good to know.  Thanks.
              \_ That is between the cops, the driver and the dmv.  The last I
                 checked the legal system in this country still had a
                 presumption of innocent until proven guilty not "you're in a
                 mustang and i don't like your plate so the State needs my
                 help to bust you".  And no I don't own a mustang, have
                 laminated plates or run red lights.  Do you drive exactly 65
                 in the fast lane to keep people from speeding, too?
                 \_ I'm trying to report a violation of laminated plate which
                    I am a witness, not trying to report a possible violation
                    of running red light which I'm not (yet) a witness.
                    \_ You think the cops don't have better things to do?
                 \_ In my mind there's a huge difference between running
                    a red light and speeding a bit on the freeway.  The
                    former is very likely to result in harm.  I think every
                    instance of red light running is serious and should
                    be punished.  I mostly don't care about speeding.
                    \_ In this case the driver hadn't done either.  They have
                       a laminated plate.  They haven't sped or run a red
                       light that anyone knows of.
                    \_ I would agree with you if everything was as simple as
                       you make it out to be. In reality, it's not that
                       simple. In the vast majority of cases, most red-light
                       violations are more accidental than anything else.
                       When you subtract the reaction time of a perfect
                       driver without any kind of hesitation, it requires
                       the driver to execute a violent emergency stop
                       (straight line braking with ABS kicking in) in
                       order to stop before the light turns from yellow
                       to red. At that point, the driver runs the risk of
                       being rear-ended. This is the problem with many
                       intersections. They don't design the length of yellow
                       lights or the time between a red light to green light
                       transition to account for these kinds of things.
                       \_ In your scenario, the party which should be
                          punished is the city for having unsafe yellow-
                          light timing!  It is still very serious and
                          should be punished!  Just not necessarily the
                          driver, if he's not at fault.  I say again,
                          *every* instance of red-light running is serious
                          and should be punished.
                       \_ I see assholes in SF running the red light,
                          nearly barreling into pedestrians, all of the time,
                          it's certainly not a case of breaking distance,
                          it's driver assholism.  Maybe a few stiff red
                          light tickets will cure them of Chronic
                       \_ they absolutely do design the length of yellow
                          lights and the time between a red light and green
                          light based on human reaction times.  What makes
                          you think they don't?
                          \_ Oh they do.  To insure that you run the red.
                          \_ The light on the left turn around the corner from
                             me goes yellow when the first car gets 3/4s
                             through the intersection and the timing is really
                             short so the last car or two *always* run the
                             red even though they entered on green.
                             \_ Those cameras snap only if you enter on red.
                                I know because I enter on yellow all the time
                                at an intersection with a working camera,
                                and I haven't gotten any tickets.
2007/7/13-15 [Transportation/Car] UID:47278 Activity:nil
7/13    The Ultimate Unicycle:
        \_ I have a larger version of this; a 700c ultimate wheel is easier
           to ride than a 20".  -tom
           \_ Compared to a unicycle, how much harder is riding an ultimate
              \_ Depends how you define "riding."  To get comfortable on an
                 ultimate wheel takes a lot more practice than getting
                 comfortable on a unicycle.  But getting 10 feet for the
                 first time might be as fast or faster on the ultimate wheel.
                 Although I've never seen anyone try to learn UW who wasn't
                 already a unicyclist, so I don't know what it would be like
                 for a non-unicyclist.  -tom
                 \_ Doesn't seem like you'd get much mechanical advantage
                    from the ultimate wheel.
                    \_ It's enormously strenuous to ride one.  -tom
2007/7/9-11 [Transportation/Car] UID:47233 Activity:low
7/9     One more carpool toll booth crossing at the San Mateo Bridge starting
        today.  Yeah!
        \_ I drove the SMB years ago so YMMV but the toll booth wasn't the
           problem, it was just too many cars and the interchange on the
           east side of the bridge sucked big time too.
           \_ What time and in which direction did you drive?  I drive in the
              carpool lane around 8:30am every morning, and having two toll
              booth crossing made it smoother.
              \_ Both directions.  About 9am in and 8pm home.  The bridge and
                 toll booths were the easy part then.  But like I said that
                 was years ago.
        \_ How long have you done this, and are you going to move across the bay?
           I've been doing this for 10 months and I'm thinking of moving.
           Give me strength, fellow environment-hating, toll-loving motd readers.
        \_ How long have you done this, and are you going to move across the
           bay?  I've been doing this for 10 months and I'm thinking of
           moving.  Give me strength, fellow environment-hating, toll-loving
           motd readers.  [formatd]
2007/7/6-8 [Transportation/Car] UID:47192 Activity:nil
7/5     Grand Theft Auto: Lego City
2007/7/5 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Tax] UID:47179 Activity:very high
7/5     "All we really want is to get paid and get laid." (Yahoo Business)
        \_ "How much money buys happiness? A wide body of research suggests the
           number is approximately forty thousand dollars a year." Uh, the
           poverty line in SF is $60K/year. Maybe 40K a year will buy you
           everything you need in hick states.
           \_ No the poverty line is not 60K.
           \_ Maybe you don't need what you think you need.
              \_ Start with $40k.  Tax it (fed, state, sales, etc): $25k.
                 Subtract rent for $1k/month dump: $13k.
                 Subtract $1k/month for Food+utilities+life misc: $1k.
                 Cool.  You now have $1k in your pocket at the end of the
                 year.  Way to live the good life.  How's that retirement
                 plan going?
                 \_ 1. You are way off on your taxes.
                       \_ Ok, give us your numbers then.  All taxes.
                        \_ 30K or so.  Sales tax isn't fair cause it's
                           not part of your rent and you are counting that
                           into the daily living expenses.
                           \_ Ok fine sales taxes are in other things.  Adding
                              5K/yr back isn't that much. I had you in a
                              $1k/month rental.  That rental could easily and
                              fairly be a lot higher, it would still be a dump
                              and you'd be at the same post-rent level.
                    2. 40k in the city, you are going to need to budget, yeah.
                       If you are spending 1k/month on general stuff you
                       are probably overspending.
                       \_ Food+utilities+clothes+transport+whatever else you
                          do with your life not adding to $1k?  Ooookkaaaayy.
                          \_ Dude right now I'm at about 1K/month for life
                             expenses.  I get out.  I do stuff, I eat out
                             at nice places.  1K/month is plenty for general
                             happiness.  That goes double when outside of
                             the Bay Area.  You do realize that people outside
                             of the BA buy houses with incomes around 40k.
                             \_ So how's your retirement plan going?  What
                                happens if you lose your job and it takes a
                                month to find a new one?  3 months?  6+ months?
                           \_ You know that median income in the Bay Area is
                              less than $40k/yr, right? Somehow most people
                              manage to get by on an income you think is
                              \_ The other person below says it is $60k.
                                 \_ Median per capita income is $30k, household
                                    (family) income is $62k.
                    3. Yeah, living in the second or third most expensive
                       area in the country you probably need to add a bit
                       to the numbers given in a fluff journalism piece.
                       \_ I wasn't the one who said you could do it in SF for
                          $40k.  I was only responding.
                          \_ 40k is journalism fluff for no frills middle
                             class.  Not having to worry how you will pay
                             rent.  Not having to worry about every dollar
                             you spend.  It doesn't mean being able to buy
                             anything you want.
                             \_ I didn't say it did.  I don't know where you're
                                going with this line of reasoning.
                    4. One of the points of the article is that having that
                       extra money, while nice, generally doesn't make
                       people happier.  It buys people nice toys but that
                       doesn't really lead to long term happiness.
                       \- having to worry less about "if my car/kid needs
                          $2k/$10k in repairs" does make life better.
                          \_ I've lived for a long time on a lower middle
                             class wage.  You know what, I didn't spend my
                             time worrying about what if my car broke down.
                             The only real sacrifice that I had to make that
                             ever bugged me was lack of health insurance for
                             a year, and that was something I porbably could
                             have gotten if I was willing to make a few cuts
                             in my spending.
                             \_ If your car or your leg broke you would have
                                worried a lot more about it.
                                \_ As I said, health insurance worried me.
                                   The car, on the other hand, was a <5K
                                   beater.  It got me from A to B.  If it
                                   needed 5K in repairs I would have just
                                   gotten another car.  That I could afford.
                                   \_ So you have no health insurance, a
                                      broken leg would ruin you and when your
                                      car breaks you're wiped out.  Maybe
                                      that's ok when you're 23 and can live on
                                      a friend's couch for a while or your
                                      mom's basement but that's not living.
                                      We haven't even talked about marriage or
                                      kids and you skipped my comments on
                                      retirement.  I don't think working until
                                      the day you die is living.  Maybe that's
                                      ok for you, but count me out of that
                                      plan, thanks.
                                      \_ As I said before, lack of health
                                         insurance WAS something that bothered
                                         me.  It just wasn't something I dealt
                                         with.  Instead I let it bug me until
                                         I got a better job that had health
                                      \_ Median household income in the Bay
                                         Area is $62k. That is how most people
                                         have to live. Count yourself blessed.
                                         \_ You read the part where we're
                                            talking about $40k in SF, not $62k
                                            in the Bay Area, right?  Also, the
                                            above person says it is below
                                            $40k.  Can you two get together on
                                            this?  I'm not going to respond to
                                            two drastically different numbers
                                            at the same time as if both were
                                            \_ Do you know the difference
                                               median and average?
                                               \_ Sorry, should have said median
                                            \_ In the City of SF, median
                                               household income is even lower.
                                               Don't get confused between
                                               per capita and household income.
2007/6/29-7/2 [Transportation/Car, Recreation/Dating] UID:47123 Activity:nil
6/29    "Roadshow: Mark your calendar: Drive Speed Limit Day June 29

        `When Phil Palmintere of Cupertino drives solo, he moves into the far
        right lane at 50 to 55 mph. "I can get 27 mpg this way on the
        freeway," he said, "and there sure is less stress."
        `When his wife is with him, "she gets annoyed that everyone passes us,
        so after a brief argument which she invariably wins, it's back to 60
        to 65 mph."
        `And his mileage is back down to 18 a gallon, he says.'

        This sounds so much like my wife and me.
        \_ My wife usually wants me to slow down. This seems true of
           women in general. What kind of pussy must you be if your wife
           actually wants you to speed up?
                    \_Are you talking about driving?
           \_ It's funny that my wife doesn't even have a driver's license.
              --- OP
        \_ My wife gets mad at me for a similar reason: she wants me to
           tailgate, which I refuse to do. I drive much faster than her
           on the open road, but in traffic I am too defensive for her
2007/6/29-7/1 [Transportation/Car] UID:47114 Activity:nil
6/29    so what are you all doing today?
        getting an iphone:
        watching that pixar French rat movie:
        going to see Sicko:
        feeling vaguely uneasy someone ALMOST managed to
        light off a big car bomb in the middle of Picadilly
        Circus in Oakland:
        helping Hans Reiser find the real killers:
        proving that Libby was railroaded by Hillary and the 9/11
        conspiracy crowd: .
        \_ Picadilly Circus in Oakland?
           \_ Not Oakland, it was London.
           \_ Yeah, seriously..  And really, car bomb?  The guy had two
              full 25 gallon drums of gas... Liquid gasoline doesn't explode
              big boy...
              \_ shhhhh dont tell anyone
              \_ Liquid gasoline doesn't explode?  What blew up the MacArthur
                 Maze connector a while ago?  OTOH liquid diesel doesn't
                 \_ I didn't say it doesn't burn.  Burn != explode.
                    They found the car full of smoke.  The guy probably
                    tried to light it, closed the door, ran, and the fire
                    used up the oxygen in the car and went out.
                \_ That's why there are 'fuel air bombs'.  you have to
                   spray the fuel over a wide area, THEN light it.
                   \_ Note that this trick also works with flour.
                      \_ Don't tell the TSA, or we won't be allowed to
                         bring crackers on flights either.
                \_ I'm actually kind of glad in a grim way they don't
                   teach hardcore physics in those madrassas.
             \_ The description I'm reading also talks about "gas cansiters."
                Assuming that's propane, I suppose you could light the gasoline
                to heat up the propane, which would then explode...
        helping Hans Reiser find the real killers:
        proving that Libby was railroaded by Hitlary and Karl Rove: .
2007/6/28-30 [Transportation/Car, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:47091 Activity:low
6/28    You know what I hate most about S Cal? Cal Worthington's
        annoying commercials. Long Beach cow boys buying trucks.
        Fuck cowboys, fuck trucks, fuck Cal Worthington's commercials.
                                                          \_ and his dog Spot
                        It isn't Spot's fault.  He's just a rental. _/
        \_ that guy must be dead by now.  he had a car lot in Sacramento
           too.  My dad says cal would sell sailors cars in long beach
           50 years ago.
           \_ I was confused for a bit as I grew up in Central Valley watching
              Cal Worthington commercials.  Now I at least know I'm not
              totally crazy.
           He's still alive, apparently he's 86 years old.
        \_ Is Larry H. Parker still doing ads?
2007/6/18-19 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:47002 Activity:kinda low 92%like:46994
6/17 (
        Interesting. This test says I should live in the suburb. Yay!
        \_ 0 out of 40 in both metrics?  Did you do that on purpose?
        \_ The test says I should live in a "small town".  Any example of a
           small town in the Bay Area?  Also, under what classification are
           the Sunset and Richomd districts in SF?  Thanks.
           \_ I don't think so.  The existence of any large city nearby
              subverts any small town into a suburb.  Livermore tries, but it
              doesn't really work.  You can't have a small town economy when
              everyone works in San Jose. Also, the small town it recommended
              to me was La Junta, CO, which has a population of < 8000.
              \_ Livermore isn't a small town, it is a sprawl.  Small towns
                 don't sprawl.
                 \_ As I said it didn't, doesn't, work.
                  \_ Not because of San Jose, because they overbuilt it with
                     suburban sprawl.
              \_ There are plenty of true small towns in the Bay Area.
                 Probably the most notable is Canyon.
                 Sunset and Richmond, I would consider streetcar suburbs.  -tom
            \_ Plenty of small towns on the coast between SF and Santa Cruz
               \_ And along the Marin coast and in Napa and Sonoma...
2007/6/18 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46994 Activity:kinda low 92%like:47002
        Interesting. This test says I should live in the suburb. Yay!
        \_ 0 out of 40 in both metrics?  Did you do that on purpose?
        \_ The test says I should live in a "small town".  Any example of a
           small town in the Bay Area?  Also, under what classification are
           the Sunset and Richomd districts in SF?  Thanks.
           \_ I don't think so.  The existence of any large city nearby
              subverts any small town into a suburb.  Livermore tries, but it
              doesn't really work.  You can't have a small town economy when
              everyone works in San Jose. Also, the small town it recommended
              to me was La Junta, CO, which has a population of < 8000.
              \_ Livermore isn't a small town, it is a sprawl.  Small towns
                 don't sprawl.
                 \_ As I said it didn't, doesn't, work.
                  \_ Not because of San Jose, because they overbuilt it with
                     suburban sprawl.
              \_ There are plenty of true small towns in the Bay Area.
                 Probably the most notable is Canyon.
                 Sunset and Richmond, I would consider streetcar suburbs.  -tom
2007/6/16-18 [Transportation/Car] UID:46979 Activity:low
        ".. and the contents of a typical woman's handbag placed in the
        glove compartment: 14 bobby pins, a bottle of tranquilizers, a
                                          \_ Maybe it was the equivalent of
                                             today's antidepressant drugs.
        lipstick, a pack of gum, tissues, a pack of cigarettes,
        matches and $2.43."
        Maybe feminism was a good idea after all.
        \_ dad's got the exact same car.  They don't make them like
           that any more.  -scottyg
2007/6/15-19 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46972 Activity:low
6/15    Urban sprawl said to create pushy drivers:
        \_ I'm an urbanite myself. Almost every single woman I've met in
           my life prefer the suburban lifestyle. My mom, my sister, my
           x-gf, x-x-gf, x-x-x-gf, female co-workers, etc prefer the sense
           of safety and serenity suburbs provide. I have from time to time
           debated with them why the urban lifestyle is better-- better
           utilization of space, more efficient use of energy, more
           convenience, better community, so on so forth. In the end, I
           realized that it's pretty pointless telling them my point
           of view. Most of them grew up in the suburbs and they've long
           made up their mind that the city is a dump. So go ahead and
           list top 10 reasons why the city is better. No one is going to
           change his/her mind.
           \_ My wife and x-gf both live in Noe Valley. My x-x-gf lives in
              Rockridge. Most people are just ignorant, not close minded, so
              if you show them otherwise they might change their minds. My
              parents thought everyone in San Francisco was stuck up, but
              after visiting for a while in Noe, they realized that at least
              in my neighborhood, people are quite friendly. It is also
              cleaner, safer and quieter than Riverside. Now they are hinting
              that they would like to move here. This is not necessarily
              a good thing....
              \_ But SF is really a dump. It's too cold even during summer,
                 and too wet. There are too many hills to climb and parking
                 is impossible. If Amerika invests and builds nice cities
                 and better mass transits like the ones in Europe maybe
                 more people would actually want to stay in the city. Until
                 that happens, suburban lifestyle will be prefered in
                 \_ Hint: putting a "K" in "American" is not clever.  Putting
                    in three of them doesn't make you 3x clever.  Carry on.
           \_ Maybe you should meet women somewhere other than your geek job.
2007/6/15-19 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:46963 Activity:nil
6/15    Gas Prices Expected to Rise at Pump
        \_ Gas prices will go up and down but the long term is always up now
           since there are no oil supergiant discoveries to save our behinds
           left such as the North Sea in the 1970s.
           \_ There's oil on the moon, I'm sure.
              \_ No way!  Don't you know that it was the Democrats, not the
                 Republicans, who took the country to the moon?
        \_ Interesting graphs comparing the price of gasoline around the world
           with per capita GDP.  The results may surprise you.
           Another data point from the same site is that US "average miles
           driven" is so much higher than other countries that our
           gas price advantage gets wiped out:
2007/6/12-15 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46922 Activity:moderate
6/11    UNC attacker says he's sorry, asks to be released.
        \_ Automobile drivers go berserk and run people over all
           the time. I can think of half a dozen in the last year
           in San Francisco alone. Why does this particular
           example of insane car driving behavior pique your
           interest so much?
           \_ You can name 6 events in the last year in just SF where a driver
              has "gone berserk and run people over"?
           \_ Because he asks to be released even thought he claims he's sorry?
              \_ Yep. Fremont guy who drove around Pac Heights mowing people
                 down last November; the guy who flipped a U-turn after
                 arguing with a guy at 16th and Valencia and then drove up
                 onto the sidewalk, mowing down two people; two different
                 "homicide by automobile" in Bayview and a similar one in
                 The Western Addition. Add to that at least two other
                 hit and runs where the driver mowed someone down and
                 then took off.
                 Oceanview. And at least one more in The Mission back in
                 March 2006 (okay I guess that was more than one year ago)
                 Add to that at least three other hit and runs where the
                 driver mowed someone down and then took off and it is
                 unclear whether the fatality was an accident or deliberate.
                 \_ ok the guy who got ran over in the mission had an altercation
                    with the car owner.  but the random ass Fremont dude from
                    really did randomly run over people in pac heights. !op
                 \_ These all look like cases of people who got into fights
                    about something else and used their car as a weapon.  If
                    they'd not had a car they'd have used whatever else was
                    at hand.  This says nothing about car drivers, but ok.
                    \_ Bullshit.
                    \_ Keep making excuses for homicidial car drivers,
                       that's ok. Why are car vs. pedestrian fatalities
                       in The City up 100% over the last five years, but
                       gun fatalities are not? It must be all those
                       pedestrians "provoking" them, right? They don't call
                       it "road rage" for nothing.
                       \_ Because guns are not easily available while cars are.
                          When you say fatalities are up 100% in the last five
                          years the question should be "What has changed in
                          the last five years?".  "Drivers have suddenly all
                          turned insane" is not the likely answer.  The term
                          road rage dates back at least to the late 80s when
                          people in LA were shooting each other on the highway.
                          But you'll note they used guns, not their vehicles as
                          weapons.  I guess it is easier to just say drivers
                          are all assholes and killers than actually take a
                          series look at the problem.  It may even be that the
                          absolute numbers are so low (6 in a year?) that a
                          100% increase is just a statistical anomaly given how
                          few events there are to count.
                          \- above poster: do you have any ungoogled guesses
                             for how many guns are in private hands in the US?
                             (re: guns not easily avail). i'd appreciate it
                             if you'ld post what your first guess it ... surely
                             doing so anonymously wont cause any embarassment.
                             \_ nothing to do with anything but feel free to
                                continue this line of debate on your own.
                          \_ No one said or even implied that drivers are all
                             assholes and killers. I am glad you are willing
                             to at least consider the possiblity that the
                             25+ deaths and 1000+ injuries of pedestrians
                             per year at the hands of automobile drivers
                             might be a problem. Acknowledgement of the problem
                             is always the first step. I am kind of amused
                             that you think that multiple homicide by automobile
                             is crazed, but individual target homicide is
                             per year in SF alone at the hands of automobile
                             drivers might be a problem. Acknowledgement of the
                             problem is always the first step. I am kind of
                             amused that you think that multiple homicide by
                             auto is crazed, but individual target homicide is
                             \_ Ok so it is 25 a year.  How does that compare
                                with other cities?  I never said anything like
                                your last line about multiple vs single target
                                murder.  I have no idea where you came up
                                with that.
                                \_ "The City has the fourth-highest rate of
                                    pedestrian deaths in the United States
                                    for cities of more than 100,000 people."
           \_ Because he asks to be released even though he claims he's sorry?
              Yeah, he's really sorry, really.
              \_ Okay, he is obviously nuts, but so are at least half of
                 people who do this kind of thing. He is kind of amusing,
                 I have to admit.
        \_ BTW, what happened to the guy who struck and killed a pedestrian in
           Fremont (which happened to be at walking distance from my home) and
           then ran over 14 more people in SF?
           \_ In jail, awaiting trial.  one of the women he paralyzed
              is suing his family.
              \_ But has he apologized and asked to be released yet?
2007/6/10-13 [Transportation/Car] UID:46899 Activity:nil
6/10    Honda Fit-- Excellent vehicle, fun to drive, decent ride, and
        priced just right. If you're a bit more budget conscious than
        typical Accord or Civic buyers, consider the Fit. It is COOL.
        \_ I want "Mitsubishi i"
        \_ How is it compared to the Toyota Yaris?
           \_ Neither the Fit nor the Yaris is "COOL". Just FYI.
              (But, the Fit is pretty cool... for an economy car. It
              handles well and stuff. I'd get it over the Yaris.)
         \_ My understanding is Fit >> Yaris.  If I had to buy a new car
            today I'd put some serious thought into the Fit.
2007/6/7-10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Transportation/Car] UID:46888 Activity:low
6/7     Can sun reflections, like from the windows and chrome of cars on a
        California freeway, cause permanent eye damage?
        I think I might be developing a blind spot in one eye. But
        it kind of comes and goes so it's hard to be sure.
        \_ yes, definitely.
        \_ Wear some polarized sunglasses.  It should get rid of the glare.
           \_ Agreed.  Even a cheap ugly clip-on worked for me.  It also
              improves visibility over non-polarized sunglasses, even if not
              for preventing eye damage.
        \_ unless the reflection is a focused sunray, I don't think so.
           Go get a ritina test for blind spot.
2007/6/6-7 [Transportation/Car] UID:46866 Activity:high
6/6     I got the following notice from my apartment managers the other day:
        "Dear Valued Resident,

        CALVAC Paving, Inc. is scheduled to perform an Asphalt Seal Coating
        to all paved driveways, permit and underground parking areas. Work
        will begin on 6/6/07 through 6/12/07, between the hours of 8am-5pm.

        Please do not park your vehicles in these areas on the dates
        specified. If your car is not moved on the specific data for your
        area we will have to tow your vehicle to an open space. This space
        will be located onsite. We apologize for any inconvenience this may
        cause. Please contact the office if you should have any questions.

        *Please see attached map for your areas specified date.*

        Thank You for your assistance!
        -Archstone Management"

        It was such short notice that this morning, I woke up to a tow
        truck company dragging cars around the parking lot (not even
        carefully, I might add). Is this even legal? I would imagine
        they would get in some legal trouble dragging cars around
        without giving people sufficient warning.
        \_ It sounds like you got sufficient warning.
        \_ I think you need something like 48 hours.  I had a motorcycle
           that got caught by something like this (parked over weekend,
           came back on monday, no bike!) and it was legal.  Shitty but
           legal.  If it happened where I lived (and it was only say 2 days
           warning) I'd probably give the property managers lots of shit for
           not giving me more warning and try to at least have them pay for
           some of the tow fees.  Especially considering they should know
           whose car is whose and how to contact those people.
           \_ Apparently, a lot of other people didn't. Many people
              take vacations or business trips. To tell people that
              their cars are going to be towed the next morning
              really isn't sufficient.
        \_ At first I thought they were impounding the cars.  They were
           just moving them locally.  You need to get a grip.
           \_ I guess if you just bought that expensive new car and
              some slimey dude slim-jimmed your car, hooked it to
              his tow truck, and just dropped it somewhere random
              without paying attention to body scratches and stuff,
              you'd be fine with that?
              \- i'd think if your car was actually damaged, you might
                 be able to ask for compensation [which they would probably
                 not give you] and then take them to small claims court
                 if under the amount for your location. if it just annoyed
                 you, i think you are SOL. how short was the notice?
                 \_ A little over a day. Not enough for people who
                    happened to be vacant during that time.
                    \_ There's always going to be someone out of town or
                       whatever. A judge would look at whether a day is
                       reasonable or not. Here in CA, where renters rule,
                       I think he'd side with you and say they had more
                       opportunity to give you notice. However, that
                       doesn't excuse that you knew about it and decided
                       to ignore it.
                       \_ I didn't ignore it. The ones who got their cars
                          towed never knew about it.
                          \_ How do you know that and why do you care
                             if you moved your car like told? And I
                             misstated. It would be a jury who would
                             decide if the time period was reasonable,
                             unless you went to small claims.
                             \_ I was scheduled to be out-of-town this
                                week but "lucked out". I don't like the
                                idea that my car will be broken into
                                or damaged while I'm away.
                                \_ Nothing you can do about it. You
                                   didn't suffer any damages.
        \_ They should have provided you with more time, but unless they
           damaged your vehicle you have suffered no harm and nothing to
           really bitch about in court.  Bitch at your landlord for more
           notice for future events and get over it.  If they did damage
           your vehicle then ask them to pay damages (they won't) and then
           file in small claims.
2007/5/28-31 [Transportation/Car] UID:46777 Activity:low
5/28    For the clue impaired, total cost of ownership of a typical
        American car:
        Note that it is double the purchase price, over just the
        first five years.
        \_ Proving the point that if you look at TOC, buying a crappy car
           is hardly much savings over a new car, since most of the
           expense over, say, 10 years is fuel and insurance anyway.
           If you're trying to prove that it's cheaper to walk to work,
           then - DUH.
           \_ Insurance on my crappy car was much less than on my new car.
              And even 6 years later things would still be less.  Plus on
              a crappy car things like theft insurance are silly, it would
              cost less to buy a new one than pay for theft insurance for a
              few years.  Hell, probably the same deal with comprehensive.
              \_ Comprehensive (which covers theft) is cheap. As I said
                 before, most of the cost of insurance is liability, which
                 is the same on a cheap or expensive car.
                 \_ You were wrong the first time you said it, too. The only
                    time that is true is when your car is either not worth
                    much, or you have really expensive liability insurance,
                    due to too many accidents or tickets, or being very young.
                    \_ I just looked at my policy again. Collision (which
                       is entirely optional) is less than 50% of my cost.
                       That's for an expensive car. For my cheaper car,
                       the collision is even less. I have no accidents or
                       tickets and have been licensed 16 years. I carry
                       100/300K coverage for liability.
                       \_ Sure, if you carry 10X the required liability coverage
                          your liability cost is higher. How much would it be
                          if you carried 1M/2M?
                          \_ I have assets I want to protect. With all the
                             expensive cars on the road in CA and the cost
                             of medical care, I even feel 100/300 is a
                             little low.
                             \_ Why not get 1M/2M then? Then you could
                                justify driving any car you wanted, because
                                your insurance costs would swamp all other
              \_ License fee is lower too.
                 \_ True.
           \_ Proving that is costs much more than $256/mo to own and operate
              a car. -OP
              \_ Which was never an issue to be debated. The issue was
                 whether $25x/month is worth it over an old beater.
2007/5/28-31 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:46774 Activity:kinda low
5/28    Extreme commuters travel 50-100 miles EACH way to/from work, and
        the trend is increasing 5X as fast as the general growth in
        commuting. Asked if it's worth sacraficing 2-4 extra hours a
        day of your life for your piece of the AMERICAN DREAM, where there's
        lots of room, lots of space, the answer is YES.
        \_ I commuted 50 miles each way for a year, it was hell.  Soul crushing
           hell.  Now I work close enough that I can bike to work in almost
           the exact same time as driving would take.  Never again.
        \_ in other news, most Americans identify Rwanda as "a kind of fruit"
           \_ in other news, most Americans still prefer big McMansion
              homes and GWB over bike ride and Al Gore. You Californians
              are very much out of touch with core American values.
              \_ Except Bush didn't get a majority over Gore and his approval
                 ratings always suck.
              \_ "core American values" change all the time.  The suburb
                 as we know it has basically existed for only 50 years,
                 less than that in most places.  Americans changed before,
                 and they'll change again.  (In fact, are changing.)  -tom
              \_ if GWB's policy reflect core American Value, he would of
                 instated the draft and expect popular support.
              \_ Made up phrases like "core American values" make me laugh.
                 No such thing. Get a clue.
        \_ It's funny to me that you read the same article as me and got
           a 180 degree opposite conclusion from it.
2007/5/26-30 [Transportation/Car] UID:46766 Activity:nil
5/26    I'm watching Nascar Fox. Can someone please explain to me what
        the appeal is about a bunch of fast noisy cars going in circle
        over and over again?                            -Nascar ignorant
        \_ Watch this video and you'll see why you'll never understand
           why people watch it and hold it dear to them:
           \_ Most of these people also voted for GWB
        \_ Think you wouldn't get the same response with a few 'special
           phrases' painted on your car in SF?
        \_ Well, here's a reason to like auto racing in general:
           Note he goes from about 12th to 1st in one lap. This doesn't
           happen much in the pros because they are all at the same high level.
           Also, you can see the whole track at an oval, instead of just a pack
           of cars wizzing by you at 150 mph. All auto racing is best watched on TV.
2007/5/25-28 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/Apps/Media] UID:46751 Activity:nil 66%like:46744
5/24    The Pinkberry song
        \_ Speaking of Pinkberry, I'm the op who posted the following:
           After talking to a bunch of people it appears that no one seems
           to be sympathetic to the traffic congestion it has caused. On
           the bright side I see a bunch of attractive looking college
           women waiting for their pinkberries.
           \_ Ask them about their pinkberries.
2007/5/23-28 [Transportation/Car] UID:46735 Activity:high
5/23    is leasing better than buying, thinking of leasing
        a new 2007 tundra for $236 a month for 3 years
        plus $2k up front... thanks soda gods.
        \_ Which one is better depends on your situation and the terms.
           I bought my first two cars and leased my last two. I eventually
           bought one of the cars I leased and now own it outright. For
           my own situation, I would never "buy" again. I would always
           lease and then only buy the car if I like it. It turns out
           that in one lease I came out ahead by leasing (versus buying)
           and in the other one I would've come out ahead by buying.
           The interest rate, money factor, and residual will make one
           better than the other financially (there are other
           non-financial factors) but the difference in my experience is
           relatively small compared to the price of the car. By the way,
           I wouldn't put any money down on a car if you can help it
           (lease or buy) but especially if you lease, unless doing so
           somehow helps the interest rate.
           \_ if i buy used, do you use the Kelly blue book value
              to haggle with? i see people selling like $2k mroe than
              \_ Just don't pay more than it is worth to you. You can
                 offer less if you want. They will sell if they want
                 and they won't if they don't.
           \_ Just out of curiousity, what is your situation?  I find buying
              a used car my far the cheapest option.  I'm still driving
              a car I bought for $600 3 years ago.  However, I know some people
              used the cheapest option by far.  I'm still driving a car I
              bought for $600 3 years ago.  However, I know some people
              require a new car, like Real Estate agents.
              \_ I think they don't have to be new cars, but they have to be
                 luxury cars.
              \_ I think it doesn't have to be a new car, but it has to be a
                 luxury car.  My ex-gf's father was a real estate agent in LA,
                 and he has two Mercedes.  When he met the weathier clients, he
                 drove the higher-end and newer one.  When he met the clients
                 that were less wealthy, he drove the older and lower-end one.
                 that were less wealthy, he drove the lower-end and older one.
                 -- !OP
              \_ I should have mentioned that of the four cars I leased
                 one new, bought two used, and leased one used. Buy vs.
                 lease is the relevant question here, not new vs. used.
                 I personally would prefer a new car, because it should
                 last longer. My first cars were 2-3 years old and I saved
                 money up front, but in the end I wish I had paid $6-7K
                 more for a new model and gotten 3 more years out of the
                 car. That is why I bought the latest car brand new. It
                 is worth the extra $150/month to have the car an extra
                 3 years. As for reason, I hate having an old, unreliable
                 car that I am embarrassed to take anywhere. I keep my
                 cars about 10 years, which I think is reasonable.
                 \_ You are not your car.  If it gets you from point A to
                    B there is no reason to be embarrassed by it.
                    \_ When you are standing by the side of the road
                       waiting for a tow truck, yes that is embarrassing.
                       I also like to have a nice car. I do not own a
                       car to get me from A to B at the lowest possible
                       price, but also in style and comfort. You might
                       have your own preference. Owning a 1981 Yugo
                       does not appeal to me. On the other hand you
                       probably spend money on crap that doesn't interest
                       me at all (e.g. most electronic gadgets).
                       \_ If it gets you halfway between A and B and then
                          breaks down it doesn't get you from A to B now
                          does it?  And how did you decide that I spend
                          money on gadgets?
                          \_ It was just an example. Every car will get
                             you from A to B, but some do so more reliably
                             and safely (or even faster). My first car
                             got me from A to B, say, 99% of the time. Is
                             that good enough? For me, it was not. For
                             you, maybe it is. For a woman it is
                             definitely a big issue. I am a guy, but my
                             car overheated once at 11:30pm near an exit
                             that had nothing open but a grocery store 1/2 mile
                             away. (There weren't even any houses.) This
                             was before cell phones were common. If
                             that happens 3x over the life of the car
                             (say) that's too much for a lot of people. I
                             haven't had that happen to me in 6 years now,
                             because I actually bought a nice car. Imagine.
                             \_ "reliable" != "nice".  There are luxury cars
                                that are pieces of junk, and inexpensive cars
                                which are reliable.
                                \_ Do you have a point? I am guessing a
                                   $600 car is neither luxurious nor
                                   \_ Uh, I didn't write the above, although
                                      he is correct.  I have a reliable car
                                      for my wife.  -$600 car guy.
                          \_ Besides, for the price of a nice car you'd
                             have to buy insane amounts of gadgets to make
                             the difference. Unless expensive TVs are
                             considered gadgets.
                             \_ Sure, why not? People spend a lot of money
                                on whatever their passion is. Photography,
                                video games, eating out, whatever. The
                                point is that I can spend my money how I
                                wish and maybe I think what you spend your
                                money on is silly. I think some people
                                easily spend $500-1000/month eating out,
                                for example. My old coworker took his
                                girlfriend to Cheesecake Factory (ugh!)
                                almost every day at $40 a pop, because he
                                couldn't cook or didn't want to. The
                                payment on a nice car really is not that
                                much. OP says he can get a new truck for
                                $236/month. I think that's totally worth
                                it and would ditch the $600 car above in 3
                                seconds if I could afford that $236/month,
                                even if it cut into other aspects of my
                                \_ You aren't thinking about total cost of
                                   ownership. The $236/mo car probably has
                                   an additional $1000/yr insurance cost and
                                   an additional $2000/yr depreciation cost
                                   over the old junker. I prefer to own no
                                   car at all and put my money into savings.
                                   Now I could buy the nicest car in the world,
                                   but I prefer to save and take a cab when
                                   I really want to live it up.
                                   \_ "Depreciation cost?" I'm not writing
                                      anything off. I buy the car and keep
                                      it until the resale is $2-3K. So the
                                      price difference is mostly the
                                      purchase price. As for insurance,
                                      most of the cost is liability, which
                                      is the same either way.
                                      \_ There is a huge difference between
                                         liability and full coverage insurance
                                         cost, especially for a new car. What
                                         is the yearly depreciation cost? Do
                                         you even know how to calculate this?
                                         Take the amount you paid for the car,
                                         subtract what you get for it when you
                                         sell it and divide by the number of
                                         years you own the car. For most cars
                                         it is $2-3k/yr, if you buy them new.
                                         \_ I've taken accounting and I know
                                            what straight-line and double
                                            declining deprecation are, but
                                            they are not germane here. Just
                                            look at the sale price and the
                                            residual price to get an idea
                                            of costs. There is no need to
                                            amortize to compare expenses.
                                            As for insurance, as I said
                                            before, the main cost is
                                            liability. For my new $45K car
                                            I pay $300/year more for
                                            collision than I did on my
                                            1993 car. Almost all of the
                                            cost of my insurance is my
                                            liability coverage. In fact,
                                            for a BMW and a Lexus my total
                                            insurance bill is $600 more than
                                            it was for my old Nissan and
                                            Honda - and that was with no
                                            collision coverage on the Nissan.
                                            \_ So what is your total cost
                                               of ownership for your $236/mo
                                               car. I am looking at a quote
                                               right now for $228/yr for
                                               liability only vs. $851 for
                                               full coverage. That is more
                                               than a 3X difference.
                                               \_ $228/year for liability?!
                                                  That's crazy low. In
                                                  fact, I don't believe you.
                                                  \_ Sorry. I have a good
                                                     driving record and am
                                                     married. That is what
                                                     we pay. I also noticed
                                                     that you don't understand
                                                     what the word depreciation
                                                     means and that you don't
                                                  \_ Sorry that is a quote
                                                     for $228/six months, so
                                                     $456/yr. And $1700/yr
                                                     for full coverage. If you
                                                     are older, married and with
                                                     a good record, that is
                                                     what you pay. Do you
                                                     know how to calculate your
                                                     total cost of ownership, so\
                                                     I think it is a waste of
                                                     time to try and continue.
                                               car. Have you even bothered to
                                               figure this out? I pay 3X for
                                               full covereage vs. liability
                                                     total cost of ownership, so
                                                     I think you are kind of
                                                     boring and stupid and a
                                                     waste of time to talk to.
                                                     Sorry about that.
                                                     total cost of ownership?
        \_ Buy vs. lease is mostly about: how long do you expect to keep the
           car, and how many miles do you drive?  If you're going to drive
           the car into the ground over 10 years then buy it.  If you're going
           to want to trade up every 2-3 years then lease.  YMMV (heh).
2007/5/20-22 [Transportation/Car, Recreation/Activities] UID:46708 Activity:nil
5/18    VW GTI rocks: (
2007/5/18-22 [Transportation/Car] UID:46690 Activity:kinda low
5/18    Help. A new Pinkberry opened up across from where I live and
        it has increased traffic jam. How will this adversely affect
        my property value? It's 1.5 blocks away from my condo. I'm thinking
        of petitioning, with the help of HOA, to get them pay for a new
        parking structure, or better yet, kick them out.
        \_ What the fuck is a Pinkberry?
           \_ I'm boycotting them just for the obnoxiousness of their website..
              OP, you've chosen to live in LA.  No sympathy.
           \_ google it and read "the taste that launched 1000 parking tickets."
              \_ Dude, Angelenos are just plain weird.
        \_ Generally, desirable business near your house increase your
           property value.
           \_ Check Cashed Now!, Aladin Bail Bonds, Joe's Pawn Shop,
              Buba's Super Stereo World, Mo's Sports Bar, Crazy Horse
              Gentlemen's Club, Spearmint Rhino Gentlemen's Club, y Larry
              Flint's Husler Casino are extremely desirable too. Will
              they raise surrounding property values?
              \_ You're throwing in a lot of different things there.  I
                 don't think anyone would consider check cashing or pawn
                 shops as "desirable."  A sports bar could easily raise
                 property values, as could a casino.
        \_ Move as far out into the suburbs as you can. That is the only
                                    \_ wilderness
                                       \_ A shack in Montana far off the grid.
           way you can be sure to be safe.
2007/5/18-20 [Recreation/Activities, Transportation/Car] UID:46689 Activity:nil
5/18    VW GTI rocks:
2007/5/18-22 [Transportation/Car] UID:46686 Activity:nil
5/18    Obi Wan Kenobi buys a used car (from last year)
2007/5/18-19 [Transportation/Car] UID:46683 Activity:moderate
5/17    Man with no arms and 1 leg eludes police in high-speed chase.
        \_ I wished most people who had two arms and two legs could
           drive that well.
        \_ "Come back here!  I'll bite your legs off!"
        \_ "He spent time in prison for kicking a Florida Highway Patrol
           trooper after an accident in 1996."  This is one guy who won't
           let his disability affect his performance!
2007/5/17-19 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid, Transportation/Car] UID:46679 Activity:moderate
5/17    GTI wanting person, have you looked at the honda fit?
        \_ How in the world does the focus go from GTI to Fit?  A Mini
           Cooper S, Mazdaspeed3, Impreza WRX, etc. would make more
           sense.  Golf->Fit makes some sense, too, but not GTI->Fit.
           Nothing wrong with Fit, of course.  I have a friend who
           went from Jetta VR6 to Fit.  His only problem is that it's
           a bit weak.  I blame his unwillingness to drive manual.
           \_ I know the fit's a little underpowered but it seems like
              it is still a fun car to drive, and it is about the same
              size as the mini, costs a lot less, and has better cargo
              potential thanks to well designed seats.  Shrug.  Seems like
              an interesting car in the small hatchback category.
        \_ small cars are dangerous. Get the Accord, you can't go wrong.
           \_ Camry Hybrid.
         \_ Spoken like a true american.
2007/5/17-19 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Transportation/Car] UID:46671 Activity:very high
5/17    What happened to Toyota's Tercel, Paseo and Echo?  They all failed?
        Seems like Toyota's compact models never last long, while the Corolla
        lasted three decades AFAIK.
        \_ Toyota == new GM.  Look what they just did to the xB. :(
           \_ Link?  What did they do to the xB?
                 short version: 650 lb weight increase, 6 mpg
                 efficiency decrease, cheapened interior, messed up sightlines
                 \_ Wow, that's a pretty damning review.  And the price
                    seems really high.  Wasn't the whole point of those
                    things to be dirt cheap?
                    \_ Ironically enough, the debacle of the 2nd gen has
                       the prices for the 1st gen models on the used market
                       rising.  I think some low mileage models are now going
                       for over asking new.
                 \_ but still as fugly as ever
                 \_ Huh, that DOES sound like GM.  I have a theory that much
                    of this trend has to do with lame customer surveys.  I'm
                    sure people alwasy say, "It's great, but I wish it was
                    a little bigger."  This is my guess as to why the Civic
                    seems to grow every year.
        \_ Although they keep changing the name every few years, Toyota
           never seems to stop producing a sub-compact (currently they
           have the Yaris), so the must still be making money in that
           market segment.
           have the Yaris). Perhaps in that market segment one has to
           keep refreshing models quickly.
           \_ #t the cheap small/compact car segment aims at young people who
              will outgrow their ego in 3-4 years for a more luxurious vehicle
              so while it's important to create a new car that's hip and cheap
              it's even more important to change their looks and their names
              every 3-4 years.
              \_ So the majority of people grow more wasteful as they grow
                 older?  I'm not so sure.  Though the xB was targetted at
                 "youth," the people I knew that were buying them were
                 elderly or new 30ish families with 1 to 2 children.
                 \_ I am thinking about getting the BRABUS Biturbo coupe.
                 \_ I'm thinking about getting the BRABUS SV12 S Biturbo coupe.
                    Does anybody have one and care to share their experience?
                    \_ Are you talking about Smart?  the 2007 model is just
                        out and no one has experience on it.
                 \_ They don't grow more wasteful.  They grow up.  Things
                    like safety, cargo capacity, and comfort start to count.
                    \_ Yeah, I have three of them, but my garage only fits
                       two so I left it parked on the street, so City Tow
                       got it for having too many parking tickets.
        \_ they got replaced by yaris
2007/5/17-19 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46669 Activity:moderate
        "Nationally, for every dollar a working family saves on housing, it
        spends 77 cents more on transportation." And this does not include
        the time lost to commuting. Just another reason to live near where
        you work.
        \_ Nationally, homes are 1/2 to 1/4 the cost of homes nearby
           SF, Sunnyvale, San Jose, LA, and pretty much every CA city
           with jobs. I can move closer to Silicon Valley but I will
           have to pay 1.2mil for the same home that I can get in
           Union City for only $695K. CA is totally utterly fucked up.
        \_ The mentality of the average American Joe/Dim: Why the FUCK
           would I want to spend $3500/month on rent in the city when I
           can *buy* a nice suburb home, country living, 3X the size
           WITH A BACKYARD where kids can play, for only $2500/month
           mortgage? GO RAIDERS! COSTCO! RIDE SUV!!!
           \_ You make that sound like a bad thing.  It isn't.
        \_ Damn and here I am willing to pay significantly more for
           housing AND more for transportation.
        \_ So the average American makes their money go 23% further by spending
           less on housing.  That is smart.  Saving on transportation is the
           sucker move if your numbers are correct.
           \_ Factor in "time lost to commuting" and it's a losing proposition.
              Time spent in a car is time spent getting fat and unhealthy.
              Thanks to not having a commute, I can work out at least an hour
              per day, and thanks to that, I'm not fat.
              Even further, the true cost of carbon emissions during transport
              are not measured, but probably far exceed your 23%.
           \_ You are making a big assumption on what transportation costs
              are going to be like in the future. I am betting that gasoline
              prices will continue to escalate.
2007/5/15-17 [Transportation/Car] UID:46645 Activity:kinda low
5/15    Thanks to all for the GTI (and VW) feedback. I had a hunch they weren't
        great, but I didn't realize it was this bad. I know this was all
        anecdotal, but still. Am no longer considering VW!
        \_ It's too bad, cause as form factor goes they are awesome cars.
           \_ There are plenty of other cars that are similar but don't break
              down like the GTI. Check out Civic SI, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo,
              Subaru WRX Impreza, Mini Cooper S.
              down like the GTI. Check out Civic SI, Mazdaspeed3, Subaru
              Impreza WRX, Mini Cooper S.
              \_ Plus Matrix and Yaris hatchback.
              \_ Civic sucks, impreza is a bit too big (and ugly), Mini is a
                 bit more than I'd like to spend.  No idea about the mazda,
                 but at least a while back mazda reliability was lacking.
                 Not saying there aren't other options, but if the GTI didn't
                 like to break it would be at the head of the pack.
              \_ I am actually looking at the Mini now. -op
              \_ Plus Matrix and Yaris Liftback.
              \_ Plus Matrix.
              \_ You left out Lancer Evo. Personally I'd get a WRX or a
                 Legacy GT/Outback XT if you can afford it. -Subaru fan boi
        \_ invisible hand | motd
2007/5/14-16 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:46630 Activity:high
5/14    Hey, Mark is this you running over cyclists?
        \_ Of course not.  Though this is utterly predictable, and I wouldn't
           have a problem defending that person.  Being attacked like that in a
           mob, I think it's reasonable to flee to safety, and CM's total
           disregard for laws seems to remove them from the safety of law.
           Amusingly, I've biked or bussed for most of the last 10 years.  It's
           not cyclists I have a problem with (I am one), it's the CM mob.
           \_ Actually, it looks like the car driver hopped a curb to
              deliberately provoke a confrontation with the cyclists.
              Isn't that how you see it?
           \_ Your complete insistence on ignoring evidence to fit your world
              view is incredible.  This video does not show bikes breaking any
              laws at all, and they're not even blocking the car; he just
              intentionally ran into a legitimate road user because he
              wanted to.  To defend actions such as that is completely
              ridiculous.  -tom
              \_ Again we have an edited video. The car hopped a curb, but it's
                 unclear what caused it.  The lane on the other side of the
                 median is going the other way, so it wasn't just driving down
                 the lane and suddenly decided to jump the median.  My guess
                 would be that it swerved to avoid a bike or turned into the
                 lane wide to avoid a bike and was pissed at the cyclists.  But
                 that's just a guess.  Tom will jump in with a guess that he'll
                 declare to be The Truth, but of course we don't know without
                 the full story. -emarkp
                 \_ Your complete insistence on ignoring evidence to
                    fit your world view is incredible.  This video
                    does not show bikes breaking any laws at all, and
                    they're not even blocking the car; he just
                    intentionally ran into a legitimate road user
                    because he wanted to.  To defend actions such as
                    that is completely ridiculous.  -tom
                 \_ So he was clearly not "fleeing to safety" right? I think
                    we can at least agree on that, right? Go back to 00:32
                    in the video and tell me again how the car driver was
                    fleeing for safety.
                    \_ Note that the driver is trying to get out of the way of
                       ONCOMING TRAFFIC.  I don't know how it got there, nor do
                       you.  But it was trying to get out of the way of a car
                       coming right at it. -emarkp
                       \_ And then it was stuck behind some bicylists, so
                          clearly "fleeing to safety" by running over them.
                          Wow, you really do have an odd worldview...
              \_ So these cyclists are hogging the entire road for no reason
                 other than to slow down traffic (thus being assholes) and
                 you think it's the car provoking a confrontation? Then the
                 guy runs over and props his bike against the car's front
                 you think it's the car provoking a confrontation? Then a
                 guy runs there and props his bike against the car's front
                 bumper and acts surprised when it gets run over.
                 \_ They're not slowing down traffic, they *are* traffic.  -tom
                    \_ ^traffic^other traffic
                       \_ how does that modification change anything?  Traffic
                          always slows down other traffic; certianly Critical
                          Mass slows down other traffic a lot less than a
                          similar number of cars does.  -tom
                          \_ Maybe but so what? They are moving slower than
                             the cars, purposefully taking up all the lanes...
                             basically inconveniencing people just to "make
                             a statement" (which is what?) They are there
                             basically for the express purpose of annoying the
                             car drivers.
                             \_ Critical Mass doesn't have an "express"
                                purpose for anything.  I think most people
                                who do it do it because riding in a big
                                group with loud music is fun.  -tom
                  \_ This is typical car driver attitude: anything in front
                     of me going slower than me is "provoking a confrontation"
                     with me. Unfortunately, many people are killed and
                     maimed every day because of this hostile, selfish and
                     immature attitude on the part of automobile drivers.
                     It does not matter who or what is in front of them:
                     another car, a cyclist or a pedestrian, if they are
                     in the drivers way, they are "provoking" them.
                     \_ Actually the average driver is not hostile but
                        apathetic and just trying to get somewhere.  CM is
                        hostile and childish and looking for confrontations.
                        If it keeps up expect to see the PD coming down on
                        them for everything in the book starting with the
                        red light violations.
                        \_ It is the apathetic drivers that run over pedestrians
                           and cylists every single day in San Francisco? Good
                           to know they are not angry when they do it, just
                           indifferent. And if you think the automobile holds
                           the balance of political power in Berkeley and
                           indifferent. And if you think the automobile drivers
                           hold the balance of political power in Berkeley and
                           San Francisco, you haven't been paying attention.
                     \_ No, it doesn't extend to "anything in front".
                        Nice strawman.
                        \_ You obviously have never tried driving the
                           speed limit in the fast lane.
                           \_ Why would I do that?
                              \_ Oh, I don't know, maybe because that is
                                 what is legal, perhaps. Maybe because you
                                 might want to see first hand the maniacal
                                 hostility of your fellow drivers, which the
                                 rest of us have to put up with every single
2007/5/14-16 [Transportation/Car] UID:46621 Activity:nil
5/14    I'm strongly considering getting a new VW GTI (based on looks,
        performance, price), but I'm unsure about its long term
        reliability and maintenance costs, as the reason I'm ditching
        my current car is because of very high  maintenance. Does
        anyone have any information on VW's (or a GTI's) reliability
        information? Thanks.
        \_ Needs premium gas.
        \_ I have a GTI, and I'll never buy a VW again.
                \_ Why? Can you explain a little more please? -op
        \_ I know a bunch of people who bought VW.  Every single one
           of them broke down, and most in a major way (tranny gone on
           two, fan coming off shaft, alternator going, etc.).  I
           haven't been in touch with most of them for a while, but
           two of them now drive Honda.  And no, I never had a VW.  I
           drive a Mazda (< 3000 miles per year).  YMMV.
        \_ I owned a VW Golf before my current car. I, too, would never
           buy VW again. Broke down a lot. VW is the auto equivalent of
           IKEA furniture- inexpensive and looks nice, but poorly made and
           not build to last.
        \_ I'm strongly considering getting a new girlfriend (based on looks,
           performance, price), but I'm unsure about her long term
           reliability and maintenance costs, as the reason I'm ditching
           my current g/f is because of very high maintenance. Does
           anyone have any information on a woman's reliability
           information? Thanks.
            \_ STFW for information on that make/model.
        \_ I have a friend w/ a GTI and the routine maintenance is pretty
           expensive. Also everyone I know w/ a VW has had problems w/ the
           electric windows. One guy at work drove around w/ a clear plastic
           bag for his right front window for nearly a year b/c he got tired
           of replacing it whenever electrical failed and the window fell
           into the door.
        \_ Check out the April issue of Consumer Reports.  Volkswagen is pretty
           much the bottom of the barrel reliability wise, along with Mercedes.
2007/5/14-16 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/Database, Computer/SW] UID:46615 Activity:nil
5/14    Compare old and new MPG estimates for 2007 and earlier model years:
2007/5/9-14 [Transportation/Bicycle, Transportation/Car] UID:46573 Activity:low
5/9     motd, help. I have a cursed front wheel. I changed my front
        MTB tire to skinny road tires and it went flat in 2 weeks.
        Right after I patched up the hole (pin size) and pumped it back
        up, there was yet another leak and I patched up again. Three days
        later, it's flat again. This time I'm tempted to get a new tire.
        However, I'm afraid the same thing would happen again. What
        the heck is going on?
        \_ Maybe you should ask one of the Mormon boys. One thing I like
           about them is that they bike (in nice shirts & slacks). It's
           really making a strong eco-conscious statement about the
           earth, life, God, etc.
        \_ I had this problem a while back.  I replaced the tire, trued the
           wheel, then tried a solid tire (which sucked).  Replaced the wheel,
           and finally replaced the bike.  Much better now.
        \_ Have you checked for possible causes of the holes within the tire
           and rim.  It sounds to me like you either still have a piece of
           sharp material embedded in your tire, or your rim is causing the
           problem.  Run your finger around and see if anything feels sharp
             or cuts you (careful).  I'd say that you may be installing the
           tube incorrectly, but you mentioned "pin" size holes which doesn't
           sound like it's due to pinching.  A good way to ensure that a tube is\
            seated correctly is to inflate the tube partially (10-20 lbs) and
           problem.  Run your finger around and see if anything feels sharp or
           cuts you (careful).  I'd say that you may be installing the tube
           incorrectly, but you mentioned "pin" size holes which doesn't sound
           like it's due to pinching.  A good way to ensure that a tube is
           seated correctly is to inflate the tube partially (10-20 lbs) and
           message it a bit around the bead making sure that the tube sits
           inside of the tire.  Then let out all the air and re inflate it a
           second time, let it out again and reinflate.  This doesn't take more
           than a few extra seconds and insure that the tube isn't going to get
           pinched.  -scottyg
           second time, let it out again and reinflate.  This doesn't take
           more than a few extra seconds and insure that the tube isn't going
           to get pinched.  -scottyg  [formatd]
           \_ THANK YOU. I found the culprit. I ran my finger through the
              tire and there was a little thing protruding out that you
              can barely see. Anyways it's the size of a pin (though it's
              not a nail) and I flattened it with my tools and everything's
              cool now. THANKS.
              \_ You should remove it, not just flatten it.  A dull bit of wire
                 embedded on the inside of your tire will still give you flats,
                 just not quite as often.  If it's difficult to pull it out,
                 bend the tire to open up the crack in the rubber it's embedded
                 in, and grip it with the tip of a pair of needlenose pliers.
        Actually I just added the plastic green slime liner thing in -/
            between the tire and tube. I was actually tempted to get
          MTB tires because they seem more reliable. Oh well. Thanks.
        \_ I had a similar problem once. The cause was that the tape on inside
           of the rim had slid a bit to the side exposing a portion of the
           opening that the spoke is inserted through. I re-did the tape and
           that solved the problem. I of course didn't recognize the source
           until I'd had two flats within several weeks of each other...
2007/5/7-9 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46549 Activity:kinda low
5/7     730 Cars burned in France b/c Sarkozy won: (
        \_ Pictures of the riots:
        \_ typical cry baby liberals
        \_ Told you the Left is violent. :-)
        \_ that's why we need guns, to keep the psycho left in check
        \_ Cheese eating surrender ... oh.
        \_ I wonder what the carbon footprint of 730 burning cars is
           \_ Clearly we need greener riots.
2007/5/1-4 [Transportation/Car] UID:46488 Activity:nil
5/1     Get cash for carpooling:
2022/06/30 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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