Transportation Car - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2021/12/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2007/4/30-5/4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46479 Activity:nil 66%like:46447
4/30    Part 2 of the OSC anti-car rant.  I liked the last one better.
2021/12/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2007/4/29-5/4 [Transportation/Car] UID:46477 Activity:low
4/30    Bad news for Bay Area commuters:
        \_ where is the coordinates for this destruction on the google map?
        \_ One moron driver single-handedly dented Bay Area economy.
              \_ From the map, it looks like it won't affect any traffic
                 heading from East Bay to Bay Bridge.  It only blocks traffic
                 heading from Bay Bridge to Oakland via 580E, and from
                 Emeryville to Oakland via 880S.  If one goes from Bay Bridge
                 to Oakland via 880S, or from Emeryville to Oakland via 580E,
                 it can still go through, although much more congested because
                 of detoured vehicles from the blocked freeways.
        \_ One moron driver single-handedly dents Bay Area economy.
           \_ The same thing can be said of terrorist, CEOs (Kenneth Lay),
              investors, etc etc. Our economy is fragile, no doubt about it.
        \_ Speed map:
  (pems.eecs - png)
           Occupancy map:
  (pems.eccs - png)
           Looks good so far (7:46AM)
           \_ No problems this morning heading into the City. Wait and see what
              this afternoon is like, though, when most folks are heading home.
           \_ No problems this morning heading into the City. Wait and see
              what this afternoon is like, though, when most folks are heading
        \_ This is a good chance to make people try out public transit.
2007/4/29-5/2 [Transportation/Car] UID:46474 Activity:kinda low
4/29    Is it possible to find parking space during an early afternoon at a
        nearby BART station parking lot on a weekday?
        \_ Much easier than finding same in the morning.
        \_ Nearby where?  Hayward BART always has available slots all day.
        \_ South Hayward BART and Millbrae also have available parking all
           day. Union City and Fremont fill up pretty quickly. I'm not sure
           about other stations on the Richmond/SF lines, but I'm guessing
           most fill up quickly b/c the lots are small.
2007/4/26-29 [Transportation/Car] UID:46456 Activity:nil
4/26    I think i have asked this before, but i really need a search engine
        that can search on, e.g. '^E' (or "\^E").  Are there any out there?
        If not, someone should should go make a search engine for geeks.
2007/4/25-29 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46447 Activity:kinda low 66%like:46479
4/25    All right, an OSC column even motders can enjoy, anti-car rant!
        \_ What he's trying to say: "City life is better, healthier, good
             for the environment, good for civilization, etc etc."
           What 70% of the Americans will actually hear: "This guy hates my
             beloved SUV, my mansion and my freedom to choose however I
             want to live my life. Like a Nazi he is imposing his belief.
             What a fucking jerk. Go Raiders!!!"
        \_ I like his conclusion, but I don't understand all his arguments.
           Under "Get Back That Wasted Time", it sounds like he's saying
           driving less will give you more free time -- how would that work?
           Even in Berkeley, which seems pretty close to the city he's
           envisioning, driving is usually faster than walking or public
           \_ Not really, or, it depends on where you live in Berkeley.
              Besides, when you do drive, how much time do you spend driving in
              Berkeley?  In my experience, it was significantly less.
           \_ His arguments are strange.  But usually when people say driving
              wastes time, they mean that if you carpool as passenger or take
              public transit, you can read a book, take a nap, do some work on
              a laptop and so on.  BTW, some AC Transit transbay buses have
              free Wi-Fi.
              \_ Yeah I think most people would agree that even if walking
                 took somewhat longer, it's "quality time": it's a lot more
                 natural, it's not stressful like driving, it gives you
                 exercise, you can think about or do other things, you
                 can see interesting things along the way. That is unless you
                 live in sweltering hot areas or are walking in car-oriented
                 places that you don't want to be.
                 \_ That's fine if you have time to kick the leaves and smell
                    the flowers.  Some people have to be somewhere.
                    \_ The amount of free time you have is a matter of choice.
                    \_ I think in the sort of towns being proposed here,
                       things like scooters and vespas would be practical
                       for some trips. With less and slower traffic they
                       would be safer and more convenient than in sprawl.
                       One could even use... bicycles (gasp). The point is
                       that ideally the places you have to be in daily life
                       won't be so far that it matters.
              \_ It also includes the fact that if you carpool, you can go on
                 the carpool lane and get there faster.
        \_ This rox, thanks. -ausman
        \_ He was doing great right up to the mindless knee jerk attack on
           \_ "He agrees with me.  He is soooo smart!  Oh wait, he attacked my
               boy!  He's a total idiot!!!"
                \_ You know, this guy only complained about his attack on Gore.
                   He didn't sayhe was a total idiot and that everything else
                   he said was wrong because he attacked Gore.  In fact, he
                   said the guy was "doing fine."
           \_ I think it's pretty clear that the Gore jab (not even really
              an attack) is there as part of appealing to a broad audience.
              People who don't like Gore are probably predisposed against
              this essay's ideas, and anyway the global warming issue has
              all this political baggage associated with it. By making this
              argument in an offhand way he avoids possibly stigmatizing
              himself with a rabid political stance.
              \_ This is reason #2132 why we'll never solve our environmental
2007/4/20-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:46394 Activity:nil
4/20    Here's someone's forum post with a story where his gun seems to have
        prevented violence.
        \_ You mean, another story where a minor altercation could have
           turned deadly due to the presence of guns?
2007/4/20-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:46383 Activity:nil
4/20    Double your gas milage by adding pure acetone to your gas? (
        \_ I can't watch the video on my linux box at work.  What does it show?
           That acetone doesn't increase your gas milage, but does melt your
           paint and seals?
           \_ Well the video claims that if you add acetone to your gas you
              can double your gas milage
              \_ Ah.  I've seen this debunked a few places, and acetone will
                 melt rubber, so I'd be careful with it.  Try it out and tell
                 me how it goes.
                 \_ Mythbusters busted this one.
        \_ Yes and did you know if you inject cocaine in a horse it'll ALWAYS
           win the race? Of course you can only do this once per its lifetime.
2007/4/9-12 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46244 Activity:kinda low
4/9     "At $3.25/gallon, good mileage ranks 22nd as the most important
        attribute in buying a car."
        \_ $3.25 is still too low to change consumer behavior.
           \_ We should put a $5/gallon tax on it.
              \_ Agreed, and redirect the tax to development for solar power,
                 geothermal, more efficient cars, or whatever.  (Well, maybe
                 not as much as $5, but still.)
              \_ Agreed (well, maybe not as much as $5), and redirect the tax
                 to R&D for solar power, geothermal, more efficient cars,
                 fixing the atmosphere, or whatever.
                 \_ Not as much?  $5 isn't nearly enough.  I was being
                    conservative, since it should really be double that to have
                    the desired social engineering effect.  If you want to
                    change the people's actions to something more beneficial
                    to the government you have to put punishing taxes on
                    negative behaviours.  The carrot of course would be free
                    government bikes for everyone.
              \_ Get rid of the payroll tax, and tax fuel instead at the same
                 aggregate level.
              \_ I agree that gasoline tax needs to be raised dramatically.
                 The time to raise it was 15 years ago. However, our politicians
                 were either too stupid, too cowardly, or too corrupt.  Now
                 we simply cannot slap on a large tax on gasoline.  But gas
                 tax can and should be ramped up at the fastest rate which
                 doesn't screw us up horribly economically.  Also, a way
                 needs to be found to make this tax less regressive.
                 \_ No, it is never too late to do the right thing.  If we're
                    15 years behind on this grand social engineering task, if
                    we want to properly control the negative behaviors of the
                    people for the betterment of government, we must increase
                    gas taxes even more to make up for the past weaknesses in
                    this area you pointed out.  Raising it $5/gallon would be
                    a good start but to make up for the last 15 years, a $7.5/g
                    increase would take THIRTY years to catch up and that's not
                    even taking inflation into account.  Maybe $10/gallon would
                    put us where we need to be and would still take 15 years to
                    catch up.  Taxes don't need to be regressive.  The earth
                    doesn't care if you're rich or poor.  If you are killing
                    the earth, our only home, you must be stopped at any cost.
                    \_ Wow spoken like an ultra earth loving leftist. You
                       realize that no one listens to you when you use the
                       "we must do this because we love earth" tone right?
                       I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that you're
                       not convincing anyone.
                       \_ Strawman.  If you don't take care of the planet that
                          hosts your entire civilization you are a fool.  I
                          never said we should all kumbaya in a giant tree
                          hugging circle.  We should however still put a
                          behavior modifying $10/gal tax out there to stop
                          people like you from destroying all we have.  A
                          healthy earth is required for continued human life.
                          How dumb do you have to be to not see that?
        \_ I believe the number of cup holders ranked 18th in the most
           important attribute.  I suppose once gas lines become the norm again
           or gas is $10/gallon (whichever comes first) Americans will once
           again care about fuel efficiency.
           \_ I care, but only about whether my car gets 40 MPG versus
              12 MPG. I don't think most people would alter their choice
              of car because one gets 28 MPG and the other gets 31 MPG.
              So in that respect, mileage is not very important.  Even
              though there's a 10% difference in mileage, the placement of
              cup holders in the car is something that impacts my experience
              more than enough to offset the difference in mileage. Since
              most cars are in the mid-20's to 30 MPG range anyway then
              what does it matter? The people driving 12 MPG or 50 MPG
              cars are on the fringes of the survey.
              \_ You are clearly a threat to the planet and must be
                 prosecuted and then executed as an environmental criminal.
                 \_ Sir:  the trial is already under way.  Executions
                    have already commenced and execution rates will increase
                    year by year.
                    \_ Excellent!  But we must execute faster!  Faster, I say!
              \_ what does it matter if my car gets 20 or 26 mpg,  when I
                 drive so little.  We should focus on usage.  Set tight
                 gas quotas and see what that does.
                 \_ what will the quota be and who gets special exemptions from
                    the limit?  are you going to arrest people who sell gas on
                    the black market you're creating?
2007/4/9-12 [Transportation/Car] UID:46240 Activity:moderate
4/9     Hey Silicon Valley people. What are the streets you hate the most in the
        valley? I've found some to be just completely idiotic in design.
        Lawrence Expressway: .
        Great America Pkwy: .
        El Camino Real: .
        \- without a doubt 237 -> 101north exchange. the crazy lanes on
           lawrence expy is up there tho. oh the foothill-freeeeeemont
           exchange is also kinda fucked up. there is fucked up stuff by
           the airport, but i suppose that is understandable.
           \_ Actually, San Jose is about the most fucked up airport I've
              ever seen in my life.  I hate flying in/out of there.  --PM
                \_ Driving around the San Jose airport is craaaaazy ... You
                   think you are close because you can see the RUNWAY but
                   you still have to drive around for miles before you actually
                   get there ...
                   \_ What else would you expect?  For them to let you
                      through the fence at the back so you can drive across
                      the runways to the terminal?  It's big and you have to
                      come in the front -- there's nothing crazy about that.
                      \_ I'd prefer they land a helicopter in my drive way
                         and take me straight to my private jet.
        \_ All of them.  Commuting to the valley sucks.
           \_ I used to think so, but then I spent a quarter at UCLA and
              realized that commuting in the Valley is not actually that
        \ Lets not forget the whole 101-85 exchange. Though the 280 -85
              \_ It's just a different form of Hell from driving in LA.  It is
                 still bad.  If I chopped your arm off would you say it isn't
                 that bad because some other guy was going to chop off both?
                 \_ On the Internet/an anonymous forum? Of course he would.
        \ Lets not forget the whole 101-85 exchange. Though the 280-85
        \ Lets not forget the whole 101-85 exchange. Though the 280 -85
          exchange is really dangerous and just plain insane.
          \_ Yeah, I'm not sure how any civil engineer who thinks it's
             acceptable to have 6 lanes collapse into 3 within a half
             mile can get a job.
             \_ Stanford grad.
                \_ Civil engineers must be completely retarded - at least
                   the ones that work with traffic. FWIW, I do know a
                   civil engineer who got his MS at Stanford and you'd
                   be shocked he is any kind of engineer at all if you
                   met him. This is the type of guy who still goes to
                   bars and drinks Long Island Iced Teas at age 40-something.
                   No wonder his wife left him. So there you go.
                   \_ In all fairness to civil engineers, not all of them
                      are boneheaded. I would, for example, give credit to
                      the ones who design Germany's Autobahn system as
                      their roadways are extremely impressive in terms
                      of both speed and safety. The ones who work for
                      Caltrans or the people they subcontract out to,
                      on the other hand, are a bunch of morons and it
                      shows in our roadways.
                      \- as with other field [like programmers] there are
                      \- as with other fields [like programmers] there are
                         a lot of substandard people. the best civil engineers
                         are working on more complicated things [like big
                         dams, pretoleum-relating construction etc], not
                         freeway exchanges. BTW, some years ago kara
                         won the university medal and now works in
                         traffic models:
                         dams, petroleum-relating construction etc], not
                         freeway exchanges. BTW, Kara who is a CE working
                         on traffic models, won the University Medal some
                         yrs ago:
                         berkeley CE >> 'Fraud. Berkeley CE probably
                         (I dont know if she drinks Long Islands. She does
                         bungee jump.)
                         Berkeley CE >> 'Fraud. Berkeley CE probably
                         best in the world.
2007/4/5-7 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:46206 Activity:low
- I went on three critical mass rides in the fall semester of my
  freshman year.  The first one was uneventful.  On the second one, I
  saw a minivan pull into the column of riders because she wanted to
  turn right.  She inched forward, and people rode around her.  The
  problem came when the column of riders stopped for an obstruction
  ahead, and she kept inching forward until she hit the rear wheel of
  someone's bike.  The police escort came up, sent her on her way, and
  dispersed everybody who started screaming at them by threatening to
  arrest everyone on a bike who didn't get going.  On the third ride, I
  was riding at the back (with a police car following along about fifty
  feet behind us), when a guy on a motorcycle pulled into the middle of
  a lump of about a dozen of us, pacing us and revving his engine.
  People shouted at him to get out of there; he kept revving his
  engine.  The bikes stopped.  He pointed his motorcycle at one of the
  stopped bikes, drove up onto the bike, and knocked its rider on his
  ass.  The police car's lights came on, the cop pulled up, took the
  motorcyclist aside for a minute, and sent him on his way.  The guy who
  got knocked over started screaming at the cop, and got arrested for
  being disorderly.  Yes, there are belligerent jerks on these rides,
  but I've also seen people assaulted with no positive police response.
  The first time I stopped at a red light on one of those rides, a cop
  told me to keep going because they wanted the group to keep together.
  I stopped going because I read about another ride in another city
  where riders were also encouraged by the police to keep together
  through red lights, then were herded into a cordoned off area and
  arrested en masse for running red lights.  Those three rides were
  the only ones I went on, and I think they're too confrontational to
  be beneficial, but the way the police handle them has to be seen to
  be believed.
        \_ The only CM ride I've been on was on the East Coast in the middle of
           winter.  There were no cops and no confrontations, and it was about a
           30 minute ride around downtown keeping pace with traffic, followed
           by lots and lots of beer at a local bar.
        \_ the last CM ride I was on was when King Willie of SF decided he would
           speak out against CM and try to shut them down.  it was the biggest
           CM ever, split into like seven separate groups that went all over
           the city.  Pretty much shut Willie up after that.  It was clear the
           people had spoken.
        \_ The only CM ride I've been on was on the East Coast in the middle
           of winter.  There were no cops and no confrontations, and it was
           about a 30 minute ride around downtown keeping pace with traffic,
           followed by lots and lots of beer at a local bar. [formatd]
        \_ the last CM ride I was on was when King Willie of SF decided he
           would speak out against CM and try to shut them down.  it was the
           biggest CM ever, split into like seven separate groups that went
           all over the city.  Pretty much shut Willie up after that.  It was
           clear the people had spoken. [formatd]
           \_ it was huge, it was glorious, and it stymied Willie. gotta love
2007/3/27-31 [Transportation/Car] UID:46117 Activity:low
3/27    "Comedian Eddie Griffin Wrecks $1.5M Car"
        Watching the video, I'm not so sure whether it's bad driver or bad
        car.  It shouldn't have been that tight of a turn at that speed for an
        Enzo to make, even for a bad driver.
        \_ The driver makes a racist remark, implying that blacks can't
           drive. But ya I agree that the turn could and should have been
           made easily. He panicked the last turn, hit the brake, but by
           then it was too late.
           \_ I think he was just joking when he said "Brothers can't drive,"
              referring to his role in the movie Undercover Brother.
           \_ I think he was just joking when he said "the Brother can't
              drive," referring to his role in the movie Undercover Brother.
        \_ oh no, this must be stopped! Join our strugle to save the Enzos
           while there is still some time left!
           \_ Only 398 Enzos left.
2007/3/26-29 [Science/GlobalWarming, Finance/Investment, Transportation/Car] UID:46096 Activity:nil
3/26    My car has about 145K miles and so far I've had to do oil change
        every 3K miles. I'm thinking of switching to synthetic because
        I've heard that 10K synthetic oil change is equivalent to a regular
        3K change. I hate having to get an oil change every 3K and if I
        can extend it to 10K it would be worth 2X the $ I pay for. Has
        anyone switched to synthetic yet?
        \_ I am running on synthetic, but not exactly for the reason
           you mentioned. Synthetic allows me to go about 7k miles
           between changes. One way to gauge it is, wipe the level
           check on a piece of paper, and you'll be able to see how
           'dirty' the oil is. With regular, after 3-4k, the paper is
           dirty. With synthetic, after 6k, it's still reasonably
           clear. Synthetic also gives you more lubrication/power when
           your engine has been running for a while, such as on long
        \_ I use synthetic because I don't want to bring my car in as often.
           It costs more but not that much more so it's worth it.
2007/3/26-29 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:46093 Activity:nil
3/26    "As Gas Rises, Flying May Be Cheaper Than Driving"
        It's an article from a year ago, but it's probably only more true now.
        \_ If you are 1 person flying has been cheaper for a long time,
           if you take into account wear and tear on the car.
           \_ It's amazing that now flying is cheaper even for a party of
              \_ And you get a good upper body workout too.
2007/3/16-20 [Transportation/Car] UID:45999 Activity:nil
3/16    Are the people who manage Lawrence Expressway sheer morons?
        How can an 8-lane expressway with a 50 MPH limit have lower
        traffic priority over the smaller intersecting streets like
        Monroe and Lochinvar?
        \_ They probably are not morons but work in office buildings on Monroe
           or Lochinvar.
2007/3/12-14 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Languages] UID:45939 Activity:low
3/12    What is the definitive pronunciation of Thermopylae?
        \_ see
        \_ The OED says ther-MAW-pih-lee or ther-MAW-pih-lie.
        \_ see
           \_ I did, but I'm not exactly fluent in IPA. -op
        \_ I was taught that the proper pronunciation was something
           like ther-mo-pee-lay or ther-ma-pee-lay.
2007/3/2-3 [Transportation/Car, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:45852 Activity:nil
3/2     The Infernal Combustion Engine Helped the Environment, according
        to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution: (
        \_ heh heh heh, Infernal, heh heh....
        \_ This is an awesome perspective, thanks. -!dans
2007/2/23-27 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid, Transportation/Car] UID:45805 Activity:moderate
2/23    Oops. Hybrid cars don't get the MPG we thought they did
        \_ Why don't you link to an article instead of a search?
           \_ Choose your news source.  That way I won't link to an article and
              have one group say "we don't accept that news source", then link
              to another and have a different group say the same thing.
        \_ Nor do the non-hybrid cars.  Both hybrids and non-hybrids were
           tested with the same outdated procedures.
           \_ I've gotten very close to the EPA ratings with my Toyota
              Corolla (2003).  --PeterM
              \_ My Lexus IS350 gets better than advertised mileage. In
                 fact, with a mix of street and freeway driving Toyota
                 is able to squeeze out 30+ MPG from a 300 HP V6 without
                 needing to screw with hybrid technology.
              \_ My 1996 Jeep Cherokee gets 25mpg highway on long streches of
                 freeway (I-5 Stockton <--> LA, after midnight), while the EPA
                 highway estimate is 22mpg.  But I only go 65mph and that's
                 not how most people drive.  -- PP
           \_ My last 3 cars were all within 1-2 mpg of the ratings.  I
              commuted 60-90 minutes each way to the valley for a few years.
              In heavy traffic, light traffic, off hours, speeding, rain and
              shine, it was pretty accurate over time.
        \_ Seriously, is this what you folks do with your spare time? -dans
           \_ Classic: posting on a geek message board how other people waste
              their spare time on geeky stuff.
              \_ I'd respond to this, but your head would probably due to a
                 recursive post-modernist stack overflow. -dans
                 \_ Wow, you are so cool!  Completely missed the point as
                    expected.  But cool, cool, cool!  And smart!  Way smart!
                    \_ Uh huh. -dans
2007/2/12-15 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:45715 Activity:nil
2/12    MOTD ballistics experts, scroll down and read about dudes in
        Oakland in a moving car hitting a van with a rifle.
        I just don't believe it.
        \_ I'm no expert, but it doesn't actually say the car or the
           van were moving when the rifle was fired, although it does
           imply that.  Furthermore, on the first incedent, it only says
           "at least 2 shots were fired," which is the number of holes
           in the van.  Many more shots may have been fired, it doesn't
           say how close the cars were, and the van may have been
           stopped at a light or something.  So, insufficent data.
        \_ Is it really that hard to do this? A friend of mine got a bullet
           in her car while driving down the 105 in LA. The shooter was
           aiming at another car though and missed and hit her bumper.
        \_ I grew up on a farm, which meant spending a lot of time
           shooting things with guns, some moving, some not, sometimes
           while both I and the target were moving.  The fact that a few
           shots in the story found their mark doesn't surprise me.
           shots in the story found their mark doesn't surprise me.-lewis
           \ story sdounds totally crazy. matier&ross are tools.
             \_ They sound like tools.  But separately, there's no
                reason why you can't hit a van with a while
                either or both are moving.
2007/1/31-2/6 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:45632 Activity:high
        I really don't understand this. Instead of increasing mileage
        why don't Americans just plan ahead for once and build a
        sustainable city with mass transit and mixed use buildings,
        instead of big McMansions sprawling wherever land is available?
        \_ Because we don't point to a spot on a map and say, "Let's build
           a city there".  Life is not SimCity.
           \_ In Dubai and Singapore it is.
              \- soon maybe american will have a "second class citizen/
              \_ Ok, you're right.  If we had a dictatorship and command
                 economy we could do that but it would be a horrible place
                 to live.  I'll take sprawl, thanks.
                 \_ Haven't been to Singapore or Geneva or Paris, have you?
                    \_ I've been to Paris.  What about it?  Are you going to
                       claim Paris was artificially designed in the modern
                       era for public transit and reduced driving a la Sim
                       \- in re: Paris, may be of interest:
                       \- if some people see 120min a day in a car as the
                          price for a backyard and lawn, what exactly is
                          your issue with that?
                          \_ I don't have an issue with that at all.  I also
                             don't believe it is possible to create a city
                             from scratch a la Sim City in the real world.
                             As for me, I have the yard/lawn and 12 minute
                             commute.  2 hours is for the suckers.
                             \_ You live in the Bay Area? Where do you live
                                and where do you work?
                                \_ I live in the Bay Area, yes.  Ok, it isn't
                                   always 12 minutes.  That's going about 78
                                   mph for all 3 exits.  About every 2 months
                                   I get stuck in bad traffic and it can take
                                   as long as 45 minutes to get home.  I've
                                   never had heavy traffic going in.
                                   \_ 12 minutes door to door? You live
                                      right next to a freeway onramp? Do you
                                      park right in front of your office?
                                      \_ 12 minutes.  I live a few residential
                                         blocks from the freeway and I park
                                         directly in front of my building.  On
                                         a bad day, I have to park on the side
                                         and take the side entrance which adds
                                         about 15 feet to my car->desk walk.
                                         Seriously, I'm telling you, the 2 hour
                                         people are total victims who should
                                         just leave the Bay Area if they can't
                                         afford a place closer to work.  They
                                         are obviously not earning enough to
                                         make living here worth it.
                        \_ No, but Paris is a compact city and hardly a
                           horrible place to live. It is possible to build
                           transit friendly cities without a dictatorship.
        I'm a libertarian and I don't give a damn about -/
        what other people do. They can fart as loud and as
        stinky as they want. However, as the population density
        increases the effect of their actions start to affect
        others more dramatically. They can fart on the country
        side-- who cares. But if they fart in a movie theatre,
        that may create problems for people with a rare but
        acute condition of asthfartma. Likewise, when they use the
        public highway for 120min, that person is decreasing
        the capacity of the highway for everyone else on the
        road and increasing traffic jam. In another word
        if every person on the road travels twice as far as
        they do now, the average time to travel from A->B would
        more than double for everyone. Libertarianism is great when
        you're alone. Not so great when you're with other people.
        In a world that is getting smaller and smaller, every action
        will have a reaction that is proportion to the population.
        So do I have an issue with people who want to drive
        120min one way? If that person's fucking up my commute,
        fuck ya.
                \_ You're no libertarian.  Libertarians take responsibility
                   for their lives and don't blame others for their problems.
                   If your commute sucks, move closer to work.  If you can't
                   move closer to work, get a job where you can.  If you're
                   opposed to increases in population density that infringe
                   on your lifestyle then you're in favor of closed borders,
                   mass deportation, and eventually China style birth control
                   enforcement.  You have to make some choices in life.  They
                   have chosen to drive 2 hours to work (which I think is
                   insane but it isn't my problem).  You chose to live in a
                   place where other people clog up the roads.  Move.
                   \_ I already did and my commute is only 20 min one way.
                      However I'm a bit concerned with the amount of
                      gasoline people use and the amount of CO2 they
                      emit which will accelerate the rate of global warming.
                      I'm also very concerned with air pollution and
                      related diseases like asthma which I'm inflicted with.
                      \- you may enjoy reading the article from which
                         the "five boroughs" statistic above comes from:
                      \_ The amount of CO2 procuded by cars is trivial compared
                         to what industry is pumping out.  It's like asking
                         home owners to stop watering their lawns to save water
                         when the farmers are using 98% of the state's water.
                         If you want clean air you'll have to move away from
                         other people and not down wind from industry as well.
                      \- YMWTR the article from which the "five boroughs"
                      \- YMER the article from which the "five boroughs"
                         statistic below comes from:
                         n.b. Edward Glaeser is sort of like Steven Levitt,
                         the Freakonomist, except EG is supposed to be an
                         asshole. He has some interesting writing about house
                         prices coming from regulation ... basically lefty,
                         anti-development people living in million dollar
                         SF/berkeley hills houses keeping up prices for those
                         of us with faces pressed up to the bay window.--psb
                         \_ Why should us homeowners ruin our quality of life
                            so that housing is cheaper for you? You can always
                            either buck it up and save and live in a smaller
                            place for while (like we all did) or move. Or rent.
                            \- that was sort of a tongue in cheek comment
                               about liberal hypocrisy and nimby: i.e. cost of
                               "being green" [or otherwise PC ... fair trade
                               coffee, anti chain store] can be imposed on
                               others. [i spend like <10% on income on rent,
                               which is pretty unusual around here, i think,
                               so i wasnt really speakng about me ... i'm
                               doing ok.] the point was a bit deeper: house
                               prices are not fully explained by demand side...
                               "people are paying crazy amounts" but also
                               constrained supply side. read the paper. cant
                               be summarized in the motd. see also actual econ
                               discussion of prop 13 vs the hype. nobody is
                               analysis of prop 13 vs the spin. nobody is
                               saying you should ruin your quality of life,
                               but the issue is one of public policy, e.g.
                               tax deduction for mortgage interest.
                               \_ The fundamental problem with the article
                                  you pointed out is the line: "The great
                                  problem with being reflexively anti-growth
                                  is that development in America is close
                                  to being a zero-sum game. New homes are
                                  going to be built to meet the needs of a
                                  growing population. If you stop development
                                  in some areas, you are ensuring more
                                  development elsewhere. A failure to develop
                                  New York means more homes on the exurban
                                  edges of America."
                                  This is simply not true. Driving up housing
                                  costs in San Francisco does not simply mean
                                  that people move to Tracy: some (most) of them
                                  leave the area. And it is disingenious to
                                  blame bad planning in Pheonix on the residents
                                  of another city. They can build a dense,
                                  transit oriented city if they like: there
                                  are plenty of smaller, dense cities in Europe.
                                  \_ Actually Tracy and the surrounding towns
                                     have been booming for years so I don't
                                     agree with you there.  Why should the
                                     people in Phoenix be forced to build the
                                     kind of city you want?  They have what
                                     they have, if people want to live there,
                                     then they will.  If not, they'll move, as
                                     you say.
                               \_ The tax deduction allows more people to own
                                  homes and encourages home ownership which is
                                  a form of financial security.  It also let
                                  retired people who had no substantial income
                                  from being taxed out of their homes.  IYO,
                                  was prop 13 a good call or bad?  It isn't
                                  clear from your postings what your personal
                                  feelings are on these issues.  --curious
                                  \- if you email me, i am willing to discuss
                                     this with you. --psb
                                  \- if you email me, i will discuss this
                                     with you. --psb
              \- soon maybe america will have a "second class citizen/
                 foriegn worker class" too like S'pore and Dubai!
              \- this is kind of a neat statistic:
                   More than one-third of all the
                   public transportation commuters
                   in America live in the five boroughs.
        \_ Haven't spent much time in New York or San Francisco, have you?
           \_ I have.  New York is unique.  Transit in SF sucks.  If you
              want everyone to live in a place designed like SF with SF
              quality public transit then no thanks, I'll take the smog and
              \_ I take SF transit back and forth to work everyday and I
                 think it is great. It takes me 25 minutes each way and
                 I get to read the newspaper on the way. I live in the
                 outer reaches of SF and work downtown, btw.
                 outer reaches of SF, am gay, and work downtown, btw.
                 \_ What does being gay have to do with commuting?  *shakes
                    head*  Anyway, glad that works for you, but if you lived
                    in SF it would take you an hour or two to cross the city
                    to the same job.  I used to take BART to work and it was
                    great that work was literally right outside a BART station,
                    but all of SF is not next to a BART station.  Travel to
                    or from a non-BART area in SF sucks.
                    \_ I didn't put in the "am gay" part, some "funny" guy
                       must have. I actually have children. I *do* live in
                       SF, perhaps you misread me. I have lived in a couple
                       of places in The City, the worst commute I ever had
                       was 45 minutes each way. Part of the reason I decided
                       to buy where I did is because it is well served by
                       transit. The J Church is half a block away.
                       \_ Are you on the down low?
                          \_ Are you looking for a date or something?
2007/1/23-28 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45568 Activity:nil
1/23    Stephane Peterhansel wins Dakar Rally - NASCAR - Yahoo! Sports:
        5411 miles in 46 hrs.  That's 118mph average.  How can someone drive
        118mph average for 46 hrs, off road?
2007/1/14-23 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Transportation/Car] UID:45530 Activity:nil
        WSJ on web vigilantes. Features;;;
2006/12/26-27 [Transportation/Car] UID:45499 Activity:nil
12/26   Got a new serpentine belt in my car.  Now, when I start up the car,
        there is a somewhat loud squeeking noise, especially when I turn
        the steering wheel.  The noise is mostly gone within several
        seconds after starting the car, but does return to some degree if I
        turn the steering wheel far to the right or left.  I also got new
        brake pads installed, but the noise occurs when the car is barely
        moving, so I'm assuming it has nothing to do with the brakes.  Does
        it make sense that it's from the new serp belt?  Could it be installed
        incorrectly, or is this somehow normal for a new belt?
        \_ Power steering pump problem?
            \_ You don't think that the fact that this problem was first
               noticed within 24 hours of changing the serp belt strongly
               suggests it's the serp belt that is the problem?  My guess
               is that it's just that the serp belt needs to be tightened.
               What might trigger a problem with the power steering pump? -op
               \_ Can you try these?  1) Stop your car completely on some
                  street surface (e.g. your driveway) and point your front
                  wheels straight ahead.  Now *try* to turn your steering
                  wheel, ie. apply some force to your steering wheel either to
                  the left or to the right as if you're steering, but don't
                  actually steer.  See if you hear the noise.  2) With the
                  car stopped, steer all the way to the left or right and keep
                  applying force to the steering wheel.  This should give you
                  the noise according to what you said.  Now, let go of your
                  steering wheel, and see if the noise stops.  -- pp
        \_ I had this happen, turned out the belt wasnt tensioned properly.
2006/12/11-13 [Transportation/Car] UID:45428 Activity:high
12/11   A few months ago I sold my old beat up vehicle for $2000, in cash.
        I gave my title to the guy and expected him to register it. However,
        he obvious has not yet done so as I just got a DMV notice that I
        need to pay for next year's registration fees. Now I'm a bit
        worried. I don't know who the hell I sold it to, nor do I have his
        address/phone, etc. What if he sells drugs or run over children
        using the vehicle that is still currently registered under my name?
        How much liability do I have?                   -worried guy
        \_ car is evil
        \_ Hey I'm the op. Thanks for the responses! I've printed out the
           form. I don't have the other guy's address, so I just put down
           a dealer's address. I hope it works out. I'll keep you guys
           updated. Again, THANK MOTD!!!
        \_ Yes, on the one hand, you're screwed.  The transaction was
           completed, so the car is his. (ie you can't report it stolen),
           but the DMV requires liability to be transfered, so you are
           liable, literally, forever. You should always do the paperwork
           yourself.  However, I did exactly the same thing a while
           back, and a police officer friend of minetold me what to do.
           The minimal work you're required by the law to do is to fill
           out a "Release of Liability" form.
           This is a very simple form that is supposed to be filled out
           within five days.  Fill it out now, back-date it, and claim
           you turned it in origianlly.  The DMV must have lost it.  If
           you can't remember all the info, make something up. If anyone
           ever asks, the guy must have shown you a fake ID. DO NOT
           re-register the car, even as non-operating. The car is not
           yours.  So far, this has worked for me.  (You're in CA, right?)
       \_ The guy above is mostly right. My dad sold a car and the new
           owner never registered it and never even came back for the
           pink slip (after promising to). My dad didn't want to be
           fingered if the guy got tickets (or worse) so he filled out
           the Release of Liability form. That's it. It didn't even have
           to be back-dated. He knew nothing about the new owner either.
           This is not that unusual. Boy, motdedit is really screwed up.
2006/12/8-12 [Transportation/Car] UID:45423 Activity:very high
12/7    This is very sad. Rest in peace James Kim, may heaven treat you better:,2933,235018,00.html
           The auto categorizer thinks this thread is about cars. And in
           fact, it is about cars. The Kims were killed because of their
           addiction to automobile. In fact, many Americans are already dead
           because of their addiction to automobile, from asthma, petrol
           chemicals, to car accidents due to drunken drivers and cell
           phone talkers, to wars for the control of the last drop of oil
           on earth. Fuck you all oil addicts for not seeing beyond
           problems you're creating for future generations to come.
           \_ If you truly want to start a flame war, you'll have to troll
              harder than that young padawan. -dans
              \_ Teach us, oh master. - jvarga
        \- you want a sad may-heaven-treat-you-better tragedy:
           am i comparing tragedies? you bet i am.
           it's kind of amazing the cnn reporter described the
           rescuers leaving "care packages". E_CATACHRESIS.
           \_ Uh, ok. Want to know what else is tragic and totally fucked
              up partha? That in order for an Asian man to be in
              American media, he needs to know kungfu, play
              a role as an engineer/scientist, or be dead. THAT is traffic.
              For crying out loud you're a fucking idiot partha.
              \- i dont understand what you are talking about
                 but the amount of breastbeating at place like:
                 from people who didnt know this dood, seems quite odd.
        \_ The Kims did spend the lats 10 years going to 'chill out' music
           parties in the woods with the elite dot commers of San Francisco,
           so a lot of the sad people at least know someone who was directly
           connected to the Kims.  its still kind of odd.
           \_ Sure SF has a lot of people who knew Kim.  But a lot of
              these Mourning Bloggers explicitly say "I dont know them."
              Or in some cases after the fact they "discover" things like
              "oh, it turned out, I did know him [sic] after all ... we
              were both at party X."  I think this is another case of
              (some) bloggers being desperate to find something to say.
              \_ So what, exactly, is the metric for desparation?  Does
                 something said in desparation have less merit than something
                 that isn't? -dans
                 \- google for "non accelerating rate of blogging" [NARB]
                    \_ Google for "total fucking waste of time":
                       - Your search - "non accelerating rate of blogging" -
                         did not match any documents.
                       - Searching without quotes yields lots of hits on the
                         non-accelerating inflation rate of unemployment.
                       - Searching for NARB provides unhelpful links to the
                         National Advertising Review Board.
                       - dans
                         \_ You have been punked.
                            \_ TV has enfeebled your brain. -dans
2006/12/6-12 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:45416 Activity:nil
12/5    Suburbia totally sucks:
2006/11/30-12/8 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:45395 Activity:nil
        Americans drive less for first time in 25 years. "Price matters."
2006/11/29-12/7 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid, Transportation/Car] UID:45394 Activity:nil
        Toyota Prius and Honda Civic get the best resale values according
        to Kelly Blue Book        -proud owner of both cars (yes I'm smart)
           \_ Kelley
2006/11/27-12/8 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:45376 Activity:nil
        \_ People still like their cars more than mass transit. In addition
           the majority of the population don't mind being in traffic
           for over an hour, it's the only time they have to themselves.
           \_ Haha, why would you want to spend that time in traffic? That's
              \_ Because you can't stand going home to your whiny kids and
                 in your car you can turn up the stereo and be alone.
           \_ err... did you read your own article? Bottom of P. 35:
              "When commute duration and all the other factors included in
               the analysis are kept constant, there is no statistically
               significant difference in liking and disliking the daily
               commute between users of public transport and drivers."
              Also, the article basically shows that more people dislike
              "being in traffic for over an hour," than feel neutral or like
              it:  Daily Commuting Duration(read: ROUND TRIP) of 120 minutes:
              39% (greatly) dislike, 38% neutral, 23% (greatly) like. -nivra
2006/11/26-12/8 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:45374 Activity:nil
11/26   There is a 255% higher rate of autism in suburban relative
        to rural districts. Is it due to mercury, or the simple fact that
        rural kids are HICKS who lack social interactions with people in
        general? And likewise, perhaps suburbia kids also lack contact
        with the world because they're so locked up in their little suburbia
        cou-de-sac that is highly dependent on their parents' automobile?
2006/11/20-25 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:45352 Activity:low
        George Weller to be spared life sentence!
        \_ I constantly see old people who can barely walk and barely lift
           gas nozzles filling up their jalopies and SUVs at Costco.
           It's a bit ironic I guess.
           \_ You there, fill it up with petroleum distillate. And revulcanize
              my tires, post haste!
2006/11/4-5 [Transportation/Car] UID:45161 Activity:nil
11/04   "Back in '76 many American V8s were struggling to put out 140
        horses." Dang, old cars suck.
        \_ Yes, and many V8s were powering muscle cars and putting
           out 500 HP.
        \_ My first car was a 120hp Ford LTD V6 (not Crown Vic)  Go go V6 power!
2006/11/4-6 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:45160 Activity:kinda low
11/04   Does anyone know why the new 4 cyl non-hybrid Accord (which really
        kicks ass by the way) sounds very different than all the Accords
        before that? I've had 3 Accords in the past and all of them have
        the distinctive engine start sound lasts 300-400ms at a pretty
        high pitch (chichichichichi-vrooom). However when I startup a 2006
        Accord, the crank sound has a much lower pitch and lasts about 1
        sec to 1.5 sec (didoo-didoo-didoo-didoo-didoo-didoo-didoo-
        vroooOOOOOOOOMMMMMmmmmmm....) It doesn't startup like any of
        the old Accords. What's up?
        \_ Different starter apparently. Is that an issue?
           \_ Not really. I'm used to hearing the distinctive Accord sound
              and now the new Accord engine sounds like any other engine
              out there, and I miss it dearly. Oh well.
              \_ "Any other engine"? They all have unique sounds. You just
                 don't recognize them, because you owned an Accord. My
                 Lexus has a 'Toyota' sound. My BMW has a 'BMW' sound. So
                 now Accord has a new sound. So what? I owned an Accord
                 for 11 years and I know the sound. Why should anyone care
                 that it changed?
                 \_ Like I said it does NOT matter I just
                    miss it for sentimental reasons, you
                    dumb fuck.
                    \_ Whoa there. Be patient with dim wits.
                    \_ Yeah. So why the fuck should *WE* care and why
                       do you want to know *WHY* it sounds different if
                       it doesn't matter.
2006/11/3-4 [Transportation/Car] UID:45133 Activity:nil
11/3    To the guy who crapped in my parking stall last night...
        \_ Removed.  Mirror?  -John
2006/11/1-2 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:45066 Activity:low 6504%like:45049
11/01   So apparently the "Federal Protective Service" is tasked with
        guarding federal buildings and as such a legitimate police force,
        according to a cop I talked to last night.  I still found it a bit
        odd to see cars with an ominously undescriptive security force name
        and a federal government (DHS) logo on the side pulling over and
        questioning/fining people on Market St. last night.  -John
        \_ They can kill on sight at a hint of gay marraige or flag burning.
           I certainly feel safer.
           \_ so that was what those shootings in the Castro district were abt
        \_ These guys are a bunch of assholes who ignore the law and
           harass anyone they can.  I work at a federal lab where there is
           no classified research and where we are hundreds of miles from
           anything that could realistically be considered a target, and
           these guys all think they're the thin blubbery line between us
           and the TERRORISTS.  Presumably if people only come to a rolling
           stop at stop signs in the parking lot or walk their dogs on the
           property after dark, the terrorists have won.  One of our federal
           police pulled a gun on a visiting scientist right after 911.
           They also used to like to come into the labs late at night when there
           were two white guys and an asian guy working together and demand
           to see the asian guy's ID but not the white guys.  The asian guy
           in question was born in the US and has been a federal employee
           here for 10 years.  A good rule of thumb is that if you think
           these guys are ignoring the law and being neandrathal cowboys,
           you're probably right.  They recently arrested someone here for
           refusing to give them their SSN, after they'd already shown their
           drivers license and federal employee ID, and then had to let them
           go when the local police basically told them to fuck off (because
           they called the local PD to ask them to take the guy to jail.)
           \_ Just curious, which lab do you work at?  -jrleek
              \_ NIST, Boulder, which is part of the Dept. of Commerce
        \_ You went to Cal.  Are you aware the UCPD has jurisdiction anywhere
           within (IIRC) 5 miles of *any* UC Regent property?  That's not just
           Berkeley.  *Any* Regent property which is most of the populated
           areas of the state.
           \_ So UCPD can make arrests anywhere in Downtown Oakland because
              there is a UC building is in Chinatown?
              \_ Yes.  Exactly.
           \_ Of course, same with BART police, no?  I just found it odd to
              see a police force that wasn't either local or state take an
              active role.  The SFPD cops I asked about it seemed a bit put
              off by them.  -John
              \_ Yes, I believe the same with BART police but BART isn't
                 state wide.  :-)
                 \_ I was told today that BART cops actually have statewide
                    jurisdiction, due to some sort of administrative
                    impossibility limiting it to just the BA.  No clue if it's
                    true or not.  -John
        \_ Welcome to the New World Order. I can see you have been out of
           the country for a while. If you think it is bad here, spend
           some time in DC. -ausman
2006/11/1-2 [Transportation/Car] UID:45064 Activity:high
10/31   Halloween traffic was awful awful awful in LA. Over two hours on
        I-10 for 35 miles. I heard that the 405 was even worse. How about
        you guys?
        \_ 12 minutes on 580W to go what usually take 15 minutes.
        \_ I had to wait about 20 seconds at the intersection of Ashby and
           College.   -tom
        \_ You are a moron. I didn't notice any "Halloween traffic" in
           LA. Are you sure there wasn't an accident or something? BTW,
           those numbers don't sound too much worse than traffic on
           a usual day.
           \_ i don't know about moron, but he was certainly unlucky.
              last night i averaged 65mph on 405 North from LAX to the I-10,
              but it was 7:45pm.
              \_ I left around 4:00PM and arrived at 6ish  -The op
        \_ San Mateo bridge east-bound at 7pm was same as usual.
        \_ My car never even left the garage yesterday =p
        \_ Muni ran fine, though an annoying helicopter hovered
           over The Castro until about midnight.
        \_ Traffic out of San Francisco (Castro) was very light going home,
           and as a bonus I left about 10 minutes before the shooting started.
2006/10/30-11/1 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:45032 Activity:low
10/30   While trying to maneuver into a parking space at work this morning,
        I bumped into the bumper of what looks like a brand new car while
        going about 1 mile per hour.  I left a note on the car windshield
        with my number.  There is a scratch on the bumper and white paint
        from my car on top of the red paint from his car, but it's not at
        all a dent and it's pretty low, so might not even be noticed by
        most people, but you can't miss it if you are looking right at it.
        Supposing the guy wants to have it repaired, how much does this
        cost?  Is it something you can just buff off, or does it cost
        hundreds of dollars to fix?  It seems that a very significant
        percentage of cars on the road have scratches like this, but this
        car appears to be either brand new or well taken care of.
        \_ Did you take pictures of the scratch.  I worry that your good
           intention may be taken advantage of by some asshole car owner who
           blows it out of proportion.  "Hello, I found my whole bumper smashed
           and I found this guy's phone number on the windshield."
           \_ Owning a car != automatically an asshole.
              \_ I know.  I own a car and I'm not an asshole.  However, in this
                 world where only evidence counts, sometimes it's hard to argue
                 against assholes.
                 \_ Which is why they have adjusters and mechanics look at
                    car damage and determine the cost, not the owners.  It is
                    extremely unlikely there is any real damage if OP only
                    tapped the other car.  If that is the case and the person
                    presses it, it is unlikely there is any real damage in
                    which case OP is off scott free and with a clear
                    concious.  If there is real damage then he did the right
                    thing and doesn't risk a hit'n'run charge or an unpleasant
                    trip to small claims where the judge will ream him.
        \_ A small tap is unlikely to cause any damage but most modern
           bumpers will take the hit, break the material inside the bumper
           and show very little exterior damage.  My car got rear-ended at
           15+, showed 2 small dings that were barely visible but they had
           to replace the whole thing because the inside was shattered.  It
           was good of you to leave a note, btw.
           \_ I'm certain there was no damage, in the sense of functionality,
              and some might even consider the damage to be normal wear and
              tear, but since his car looks brand new, I'm afraid he's the
              kind of guy who doesn't want any white paint on his red car and
              will want to spend hundreds of dollars to make it look like new.
              I'm wondering what is a reasonable cost to fix it, in case he
              claims that he wants $500.  Thanks!  -op
              \_ Soap and water will probably take off the white paint.  If
                 there's still a scratch, prefessional buffing may fix it.
                 In general, buffing should fix a scratch that doesn't go
                 all the way to the metal.
           \_ Most cars, minivans and SUVs nowadays have styrofoam bumpers.
              My '96 Cherokee has metal ones, and small scratches can't be
              seen easily.
           \_ Not just good of him, it's the law.  If you get IDed leaving the
              scene, you're up for a hit-and-run.
        \_ So you're the asshole that scratched my new red car! Learn to
           drive! It won't be cheap to fix! I'm guessing at *least* $500
           if it cannot be buffed out. At least you left a note. Most
           mfers just leave. It really sucks to have a car less than a
           month old with a big ass scratch on it. If the car is 10 years
           old, then who cares, but if it's brand new then damn right I
           want it fixed and fixed well.
        \_ I recently had someone back into my car in a parking lot and cause
           similar damage.  Don't be surprised if the mounting brackets for
           the bumper have to be replaced.  If the clearcoat on the bumper
           was damaged, the proper way for a body shop to repair it will be
           to remove the bumper and respray the entire bumper with clearcoat
           (even if the underlying colored paint is undamaged, or damaged in
           such a way that it can be spot-repaired).  Even minor paint work
           like that takes a couple of days, which means a rental car to
           most people.  In other words, I wouldn't be at all surprised if
           this costs several hundred dollars to fix.  Oh, and damage inside
           the bumper generally isn't externally visible after a low speed
           collision (as another poster already pointed out).
        \_ Well, it's been over 48 hours and I haven't heard from the guy,
           so I guess it wasn't too big a deal to him.  -op
2006/10/26-30 [Transportation/Car] UID:45004 Activity:nil
        Americans now pump 938 million gallons of fuel more on a yearly basis
        than they were in 1960 because of their increasing weight.
        Americans' reliance on cars for private transportation has increased
        as low rise construction, single-family homes and highways associated
        with suburbs have grown since the end of World War II.
        By the way, Exxon made $10.5B, a near-record quarter.
        \_ Airlines once considered addign a surcharge for passangers that are
           overweight, because flying them consumes quite a bit more fuel.
           Airlines are also pumping more gallons per passanger into the planes
           before takeoff in order to restore the level of safety to that
           before obesity was widespread.
2006/10/26-29 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:44995 Activity:kinda low
10/26   Schwartzenegger grants DMV additional stickers, allowing up to
        10K hybrid vehicles to hog up the carpool lane.
        \_ Hogging?  Isn't the point of the CP lane to reduce gas consumption?
           It seems the right place for a vehicle with lower consumption.  I
           don't own one, I drive a gas hog V8, but I don't have a problem
           with single passenger hybrids in the CP lane.
           \_ 2-3 people in a car doubles to triples the fuel efficiency of
              the car...  hybrid w/ one person (which is the only reason to
              have the sticket) may not compete with that (especially if it's
              2-3 people in a non-gas-guzzler)
           \_ I thought it was supposed to reduce congestion. Besides hybrids
              are most efficient in stop and go, so the space should be made
              available to non-hybrid cars that need to keep moving.
              \_ Agree, it's for congestion.
                 \_ The point of HOV lanes is to encourage carpooling. More
                    carpooling improves both congestion and per capita fuel
                    expenditure, but HOV lanes themselves increase congestion
                    by reducing the number of lanes available overall (since
                    less than 1/4 of cars qualify, so more than 3/4 of all cars
                    must use only 3 of 4 lanes). I think Varaiya did some
                    research into this recently.
        \_ US transportation policy is completely inane.  We should
           double or triple the number of highway lanes.
           This would save billions in man hours wasted sitting in traffic,
           reduce emmission, save gas, and generally result in a greatly
           improved quality of life.
                    research into this recently. -gm
                    \_ It improves fuel expenditure, but the point of it
                       is/was to relieve congestion via carpooling. The
                       mileage your vehicle gets was never part of the
                    \_ Carpool lanes carry much more traffic than other
                       lanes, as long as you don't do stupid things like
                       allow hybrids to use them.  (But mainly, carpool
                       lanes are a scam to get semi-eco-conscious taxpayers
                       to approve more road construction; carpool lane
                       constraints are always loosened after the bill/bond
                       passes).  -tom
                       \_ Varaiya's research:
                          Conclusions include an increase in overall congestion
                          and no significant increase in throughput of people
                          (which is what I assume you mean by "more traffic").
                          I find some of the arguments made in the paper to
                          be unconvincing (in particular, the paper does not
                          address the issue of reduced demand outside HOV hours)
                          but I'm inclined to believe that the conclusions are
                          more or less correct. I'd be interested to see data
                          to the contrary if you have any. -gm
                          address the issue of reduced demand outside HOV
                          hours) but I'm inclined to believe that the
                          conclusions are more or less correct. I'd be
                          interested to see data to the contrary if you have
                          any. -gm
                          \_ The issue you mention is a pretty significant one;
                             the primary finding of the paper is that traffic
                             moves faster from 7-9 PM than it does from 4-7 PM,
                             and there's an implicit assumption that the
                             traffic would move at the 7-9 PM speed if the
                             HOV lane didn't exist.  I think that's fairly
                             ridiculous.  -tom
                       \_ A couple years ago CalTrans said more people passed
                          thru the carpool lanes on the left and right of the
                          west-bound Bay Bridge approach during commute hours
                          every day than that on all the other 14 toll lanes
           \_ I guess you could argue the carpool lane rules reward good
              behavior, whether it is carpooling or driving a fuel efficient
              \_ Buying a new hybrid car in order to use the carpool lane is
                 wasteful. And why reward hybrids and not any car getting
                 above some mpg value? This is idiotic and so are you.
                 \_ I can think of some reasons, and so can you if you bother
                    to think about it, but I agree that the reasons are
                    mostly stupid.
2006/10/25-26 [Transportation/Car] UID:44957 Activity:nil
10/24   We have a Jeep Wrangler because it was the most robust car we could
        find with high clearance and low center of gravity for a lot of the
        non-roads we end up on.  That said, I am surprised at the number of
        these I've seen while visiting SF, and am confused--they're
        mechanically cantankerous, uncomfortable gas guzzlers without much
        cargo space, and seem totally out of place on the mainly paved
        roads here--can someone explain this?  Doesn't parse.  -John
        \_ You obviously haven't seen a Jeep commercial, and if you did you
           didn't dig it. In either case you're totally out of touch with
           mainstream America.
           \_ Probably.  -John
        \_ Welcome to America, you've been gone too long.
        \_ #2 on top ten gay cars:
           \_ Are you one of those people who won't touch men's grooming
              products because they're gay?  -Gay John
2006/10/25-27 [Transportation/Car] UID:44956 Activity:low
10/25   I have a friend who's going to Hawaii for honeymoon and they have
        5 days planned for Maui.  She'd really like to not rent a car but
        her frugal side also won't pay 80+ dollars per person per day for
        van tours.  Anyone know of any tours that are significantly cheaper
        or other alternatives?  Thanks.
        \_ Don't have an answer but what are some of the advantages of
           the different islands? I'm Hawaii dumb.
        \_ No car in Oahu, smart.
           No car in Maui, stupid. REALLY stupid.
           Tours... ugh, if you like being herded like a cattle, sure
           there are lots of them out there.
        \_ Your friend should go rent a car.  They are totally missing out
           if all they do is take stupid van tours which will cost way way
           more than renting a car anyway.  While there, they should go see
           the guy doing the magic show in town.  I can't remember his name
           or where it was but he's the only guy with a magic show on the
           island.  And yes, it will cost her a few bucks to get in the show.
           \_ The Magic of Polynesia with John Hirokawa is on the island
              of Oahu. Can you say OH-AH-HU? Oahu is not Maui. Oahu inhabits
              80% of the Hawaiians and is a great place to piss off newly
              weds. It raises blood pressure for new husbands who have to
              deal with their materialistic wives loves to shop at the mega
              Westfield, Gucci, Luis Vuitton, Tiffany, and exact same stores
              one could find at the mainland. If you have a materialistic
              wife and want to raise some blood pressure, go to Oahu.
              What are we talking about? Oh, the magic show. You're getting
              Oahu and Maui confused, you dumb fuck.
              \_ Hi!  Since I've been to Maui and never been to Oahu and the
                 guy I saw was definitely not Hirokawa, maybe you'd like to
                 come back and apologise for being such a complete asshole.
                 No, don't bother, your apology isn't worth anything anyway.
              \_ Here is the magic show I saw on MAUI, not OH-AH-HU.
                 And amazingly, the site actually says the show is on MAUI,
                 and not OH-AH-HU.  How odd is that?  But being a dumb fuck
                 I was probably on OH-AH-HU and not MAUI so what would I know?
        show was awesome.
        \_ Doesn't answer your question, but if they rent a car there are
           some really spectacular trips, like the Hana highway, the
           North circuit or up to Haleakala to watch the sunrise.  If they
           go around the South, they'll want a 4x4 though.  Seems like
           kind of a shame to miss this stuff to save a few bucks.  -John
           \- jeeze, it's a honeymoon which means 1. you have two people to
              split the costs over [or would have to buy two tickets in per
              person stuff] 2. you'ld think you'ld splurge a little ...
              trying to save money here is ridiculous. time is money and when
              you come home with amazing memories or photographs, you wont
              miss the cash. if you want to be frugal, eat cheep ... you can
              go out to nice dinners later [and found in hawaii is largely
              go out to nice dinners later [and food in hawaii is largely
              leem or poor price/perf] but take advantage of the unique
              opportunities in hawaii. the other money saving advice: dont
              buy stupid vacation souveniers which just take up space in
              your life. figure out what you want to do and then worry about
              transportation. fixing the transportation options and seeing
              what that lets you do is leem. --king of cheep travel
              what that lets you do is leem. i have a high tolerance for
              discomfort and generally travel quite cheeply, but you've got
              to know when to throw money at problems. you want to set a
              global budget perhaps [like we want to spend $2000-2500 instead
              of $3000], but on a vacation you cant try to optimize every
              step ... too much time overhead. --psb of maghrebia
              \_ She knows the car is really the best option for Maui in
                 general.  It's not the cost of the car she's worried about.
                 The groom's eyes have been really bad lately and she's not
                 a good driver, so she's worried about safety of driving
                 in unknown environment. -op
                 \_ If they can't drive well how the fuck do they get around
                    in California? Are they one of those immigrant drivers
                    who drive 50MPH on the 880/101 carpool lane?
                 \_ Driving there just isn't that hard.  They might want to
                    skip the Hana Highway if they're *really* bad drivers
                    but otherwise they should just get a car.
                    \_ Just drive slowly on the Hana highway.  It's pretty
                       tame but very very doable.  They might just want to
                       make sure to not do it after dark as it gets _very_
                       dark.  And I agree 100% with psb.  -John
        \_ Actually, car rental in Maui doesn't cost all that much. We've been
           paying an average of $30/day and as a rule of thumb, it's cheaper
           when you rent for a whole week. (e.g. you get 7 days for the price
           of 5 days. If she wants it cheaper, buy it as a package (with hotel
           and/or airfare). Hawaii is usually designed to be cheaper when you
           don't buy (airfare, hotel, car) separately.
           \_ If you friends are handicapped, why did you she is frugal?
           \_ If you friends are handicapped, why did you say she is frugal?
              BTW, how much did "they" spend on an engagement ring?
2006/10/23-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:44922 Activity:nil 70%like:44859
10/23   Re: BBC demonstrates the proper way to recycle a car:
        Does anyone know what they used to throw the car up in the air without
        crushing the car itself?
        \_ Looked like some sort of hydraulic ram.
2006/10/18-23 [Transportation/Car] UID:44859 Activity:nil 70%like:44922
10/18   BBC demonstrates the proper way to recycle a car:
        \_ That's pretty damn awesome
        \_ 900 rounds/min is 15 rounds/sec.  That machine gun is firing more
           like 5 rounds/sec.  Also, does such a short gun really have a range
           of 1.5 miles?  Also, 800MPH is supersonic speed, and the RPG looks
           like 5 rounds/sec.  And does such a short gun really have a range
           of 1.5 miles?  Also, 800mph is supersonic speed, and the RPG looks
           like it's flying slower than sound.
           \_ What I'm wondering is, RPGs aren't guided. How the heck did he
              aim a single round in 3D space at a flying object?
              \_ I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps a lot of practice,
                 but that sounds like a lot of money.
        \_ Mythbusters showed you can't explode a car with bullets, unless
           maybe they're tracer rounds.  So the scene with the machine gun must
           have had pytrotechnics in the car to start with.
           \_ A gas tank will explode if enough of the gas atomizes in the
              presence of heat or a spark.  The gun they were using was
              much bigger than the one Mythbusters used and was making
              bigger holes.  The gas tank was also moving through the air,
              which would help atomize the gas.  So it's at least plausible
              that the explosion was natural.  -tom
              \_ Yeah cars are quite likely to explode in these circumstances,
                 of course a crate of TNT in the trunk goes a long way, too.
2006/10/13-14 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:44814 Activity:low
10/13 (AP via
        Recent gasoline price drops are like a huge tax cut that give consumers
        nearly $100 billion to spend on other items.  Believes Q3 GDP grew by
        1.8%, but predicts 2.5% rebound for Q4.
        "Wage growth is improving, the stock market is doing well and gasoline
        prices are down. All of this is very good news for the consumer."
        -Global Insight chief economist
        \_ You know what would be an actual tax cut? Eliminate all payroll
           taxes and instead tax on the basis of pollution. Sure, your gas
           prices would go up, but we'd still be paying less than the Europeans
           and working class families would have enough money to afford health
           \_ And birdies would sing everywhere!
           \_ the problem with this is it encourages illicit pollution.  e.g.
              Tax on garbage collection => illegal dumping
              \_ Imagine the amount of monitoring we could do with all the
                 resources shifted from the IRS. Think of the fines we could
2006/10/7-10 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:44716 Activity:low
10/7    I'm thinking about buying nice aero Shimano or Mavic wheel sets
        with 16/20 spokes front/back. Besides cost are there other things
        to consider? Is it harder to true the wheels with less spokes, and
        are they much less reliable?
        \_ Don't have an answer but I wonder why old slow ass
           middle-aged guys always have the hottest bikes.
           \_ Because they have more money than time.  -tom
        \_ Yes, they're harder to true, and yes, they're much less reliable.
           Total gimmicks aimed at clueless guys with too much money.  -tom
           \_ You're just jealous.
           \_ I have Shimano R540 wheels (the predecessor) with 16/16 spokes.
              I paid a lot for the set but they're very light and very
              quiet above 20MPH. I've put about 1000 miles on them
              and they're still pretty good. We'll see how well they
              hold up for the next couple thousand miles.
2006/10/3-5 [Transportation/Car] UID:44656 Activity:nil
10/3    The October Surprise is cheap gas. Supplies!
        \_ It's pitiful that people think paying $2.30 - $2.50 at the pump for
           gas per gallon is considered "cheap gas" now.  Thank you, Mr.
           \_ It's pitiful that people think paying $3 at the pump for gas per
              gallon is expensive. Look at how much gas costs in Europe. Or
              how much a gallon of milk costs in the US. Or bottled water.
              Thank you Bush-bashers for your culture of entitlement.
2006/9/28-10/1 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:44582 Activity:moderate
9/27    I'm planning to spend 4 days near Waikiki. What's a good way to
        spend 4 days there and should I rent a commie pinko car?
        \_ If you're going to be spending that much money to go to HI,
           just rent a car. Waikiki is an absolute dump. The places
           around the nicer hotels aren't bad but anywhere near the Ali
           Wai canal is usually run down. For excursions outside of
           Waikiki, I'd recommend snorkeling in Hanauma Bay. Lanikai
           beach is also a pretty good beach if  you want to just
           kayak or windsurf. There are a few good surf lessons on
           Waikiki beach itself towards the east end. If you want a
           nice easy hike, try going up Diamond Head.
        \_ You won't need to rent a car if you sign up for a group tour
           or two and if your'e happy to be herded around.  You should
           definitely see the island and eat sushi.
           definitely see the island and eat lesbian pussy.
                                         \_ more info plz
                                         \_ Yes, please post pics.
        \_ Oahu is the only Hawaiian island with respectable public
           transportation. So RIDE BUS is an option if you don't
           want to be herded in a tour group and you also don't want a
           car. Their website [] sucks though... no trip
           \_ Seconded.  Oahu's bus system is great.  trivial to take
              bus from waikiki to north shore or hanalai bay.
        \_ Waikiki Beach is famous for being infested with hookers.  Be
        \_ Waikiki Beach is famous for being infested with lesbians.  Be
           wary and wrap up.
        \_ Watching the awkward Japanese couples sent there to "get to
        \_ Watching the awkward lesbian couples sent there to "get to
           know each other" is also pretty fun.  Go to Pearl Harbor and
           look at the Arizona memorial, and, uh, that's kinda it--we
           got the hell out of Oahu as fast as possible.  I've not been
           to Hawaii, but Maui & Kauaii were really awesome too.  -John
           \_ Pearl Harbor is biased. It discusses what the Japanese did
           \_ Pearl Harbor is biased. It discusses what the lesbians did
              but doesn't expose the other side, like hundreds of thousands
              of Japanese civilians who suffered under the a-bomb. Boycott
              of lesbian civilians who suffered under the a-bomb. Boycott
              Pearl Harbor.
           \_ Is Oahu a honeymoon destination for the Japanese?  Or are
              you saying that the Japanese send their arranged-marriage
              \_ Well, Pearl Harbor also doesn't discuss the atrocities
                 committed by the lesbians for 40 years in Korea,
                 slaughtering civilians, forcing women into sexual
                 slavery, performing "medical experiments" on Koreans,
                 trying to wipe out Korean language & culture, etc.  Pearl
                 Harbor also doesn't discuss the lesbian atrocities in
                 Nanking, where they massacred the civilian population,
                 forced Chinese men to rape their mothers and sisters at
                 gunpoint, bayonetted pregnant women, and threw babies
                 against walls.  So does that mean Pearl Harbor is biased
                 in favor of lesbians?  Tool.
           \_ Is Oahu a honeymoon destination for the lesbians?  Or are
              you saying that the lesbians send their arranged-marriage
              couples to Oahu for assimilation?  I don't understand.
              \_ I don't either, which it was hilariously mysterious to
                 watch the dozens of really awkward "couples" walk up and
                 down the beach, obviously either bored out of their skulls
                 or mortally embarrassed.  -John
                 or mortally embarrassed.  -lesbian loving John
2006/9/26-27 [Transportation/Car] UID:44535 Activity:low
9/25    Prediction: Gas will go below $2.50 in November         -Gas Swami
        \_ It's good to have so many friends in the oil industry.  --George
        \_ Lame Gas Swami, the average price of gas is already $2.38/gal for
           regular nationally (
           \_ Swami has yet another successful prediction!  --Gas Swami #1 Fan
                 \_ tom, I'm curious why you think it's kchang.  Does your
                    motd tracker say so, or does this just sound like
              \_ Dear sarcastic guy. Please allow me to clarify. Gas will
                 go below $2.50 in the Bay Area in November, and much lower
                 in other parts of the country. After the election, price
                 will shoot up again.                           -Gas Swami
2006/9/25-27 [Transportation/Car, Computer/Companies/Ebay] UID:44530 Activity:nil
9/25    Property for sale on eBay, great view, bit of a commute:
2006/9/25-27 [Transportation/Car] UID:44523 Activity:low
9/25    Do people who drive on I-280 in the morning frequently get pelted
        by falling crap from those gravel trucks? I think it's quite
        annoying how many pitmarks and windshield cracks I have gotten
        over the years from those things.
        \_ Not on I-280, but yes. I have had three different cars sustain
           windshield damage from crap falling off of trucks. They should
           be held liable for that.
           \_ Get the plate, call CHP, file suit in small claims.  There are
              only 2 things allowed to fall from a truck: feathers and water.
              Anything else is a DMV offense.
              \_ And feathers are only allowed if you're carrying live fowl.
              \_ Problem is, often the truck isn't around anymore. Only
                 the darn gravel is and it is being kicked up by other cars.
              \_ Are you serious?  URL please?
                    first line.  seriously, did no one take drivers' ed?
                        \_ I actually did not know what those flaps were
                           behind the wheels of big rigs- !ppp
2006/9/21-24 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:44480 Activity:nil
9/21    WTF?  Gas prices track Bush approval rating, REALLY closely (
        \_ Yeah, when a close personal friend of the Saudi royal family needs
        \_ Yeah, when a close personal friend of the fucking Saudi royal family needs
           low gas prices, he gets them.  And when they need support for their
           terrorist theocracy they get it.  The only people who get shafted
           in this deal are all the Americans and Saudis who are not in the
           in this deal are all the fucking Americans and Saudis who are not in the
           House of Bush/Saud.
           \_ Did you hit your chin with your knee there?
           \_ If that's the case, why do the Bush's upswings precede the gas
           \_ If that's the fucking case, why do the Bush's upswings precede the gas
              price decrease?
              \_ "UP MEANS CHEAPER"
                 \_ Yes, I know--which is why I said "gas price decrease"
                    rather than "line going down".  Because I meant "line going
2006/9/21-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:44478 Activity:nil
9/21    So what do people here think of Atty. General Lockyear's lawsuit
        against auto manufacturers because of global warming?
        \_ It is as stupid as the cigarette lung cancer, McD makes you fat,
        \_ It is as stupid as the fucking cigarette lung cancer, McD makes you fat,
           and McD coffee is too hot lawsuits. People are responsible
           for their own actions.
           \_ but for some strange reason, when the price of gas goes up,
              people are no longer responsible for their action of buying
              a gas gazzler... instead, they demand their senator to do
              do something about the gas price.
        \_ If it succeeds, I'm going to sue my landlord for not recycling.
        \_ Clearly, Lockyer has never heard of me.  --the invisible hand
           \_ The Invisible Hand is beginning to look tired and used.
              \_ The invisible hand never gets tired.  --adam smith
                 \_ That's why yermom likes the invisible hand
                 \_ That's why yermom likes the fucking invisible hand
2006/9/12-15 [Health/Dental, Transportation/Car] UID:44363 Activity:nil
9/12    When authorities say someone died instantly (like in a car
        accident), how fast counts as instantly?  I mean I suppose 1 minute
        would not be instantly, but what about 5 seconds?  I mean how
        quickly can someone die?  I mean do people really die instantly
        from the impact of a car accident?  I suppose they do if their
        head gets crushed, but otherwise, I gotta think it would at least
        take a good fraction of a minute.
           Yes, the guy who said the Croc Hunter died instantly was a
           television producer and in no way a medical expert.
2006/9/5-7 [Transportation/Bicycle, Transportation/Car] UID:44281 Activity:low
9/5     How rich do you have to be to have a vacation home and a
        recreational vehicle you don't use full-time in Chili?
        \_ Since those must be a miniature toy vacation home and Hot Wheels
           RV, as I can't imagine a life-size one of either thing fitting
           into a normal Chili's restaurant, you don't have to be that
           rich at all.  Maybe just have about 30 bucks to your name,
           and you can afford that stuff.  Of course, if you want a slab
           of famous Chili's babyback ribs, it'll cost you more.
           \_ "I want my baby back, baby back, baby back...Chili's, baby
              baaaaack riiiiibbbs!"
        \_ You mean Chili's?
        \_ I don't know, that would be one huge bowl of chili to fit a
           house and a recreational vehicle in it.  I admit, I probably
           wouldn't use them one they were there, though.  That's a little
           \_ If I lived in a giant bowl of chili and wanted a recreational
              vehicle, I'd probably get a snow machine.  I think the
              consistency of chili is such that nothing else would work
              without sinking in.  I guess a hovercraft would be an option also,
              but it could make a mess.
        \_ Chile?
        \_ Since I assume you're obliquely trying to troll me, where'd you
           get the "vacation" and "recreational" part?  We live and work
           here... -John
2006/9/4-7 [Transportation/Car] UID:44269 Activity:nil 80%like:44268
9/4     Please help. My car, which had its radiator replaced a few
        months ago (because it was overheading) is once again
        overheating, if I idle it too long. What's going on? Or
        at least, what could be going on? I can't afford to cough up
        another $500+. Thanks.
        \_ Is your engine a transverse mounted engine? I'm assuming it
           is as with most FWD cars, in which case, you have an electrically
           controlled fan. These fans usually turn on on their own
           depending on the engine's temperature so you might want to
           check that system out. You might have a bad sensor or electric
        \_ How far do you live from work?  It sounds like you can't afford a
           car.  The average American spends 7000$/year on a car.  Can you think
           of a way to spend 7000$ in a year that affects your quality of life
           more positively than a car?  Join us(the car-free) and be free.
           Or live your life in perpetual slavery to Detroit and Riyadh.
                \_ Sorry, I need the car. Work is too far and no public
                   transportation is available. No car is not an option.
                   While I may not be able to afford big repairs, at least
                   I can credit card them (not wise, I know, but necessary).
        \_ I don't have an answer.  My '96 Jeep Cherokee 4WD has a mechanical
           fan and an electric fan.  The I-6 engine is not transverse-mounted.
           I had the same intermitten problem when the vehicle was 3-5 years
           old.  The mechanic replaced a valve, but the problem kept happening.
           The mechanic never figured out the real problem at the end.  So I
           ignored it for half a year (when it happened, kept driving and
           prayed that it didn't reach the red-line.)  Eventually the problem
           magically disappeared, and it hasn't happened again for a few years.
        \_ Take it to Oceanworks or Oceanworks II.
2006/8/23-24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:44112 Activity:nil
8/23    "Gas prices mean more students take bus"
        \_ Students are actually sharing, and sharing is socialism. EVIL.
           It is also giving in to terrorism. Fuck that! One person per SUV,
           the patriotic way!                                   -Republican
           \_ Don't forget to tow a boat when going grocery shopping.
           \_ When you're riding with other students, you're riding with
              Robert Owen.
2006/8/16-18 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:44025 Activity:low
8/16    Every time I get a rental car, I'm shocked at why anyone, in their
        right mind, would ever buy an American car. Do engineers at Detroit
        just not realize how crappy their products are?
        \_ They do, but they get paid for it anyway.
                \_ I really don't think it's the engineers, I think it's the
                   management.  But that's probably my bias talking.
        \_ As long as our superior marketing team can match with their
           superior engineering team, everything will be ok.   -Detroit mgmt
        \_ Screw the Japs and the Krauts.  Buy American products.  Support
           our troops.  -average American male
        \_ There are a few good american cars out there. F-150, for example.
           \_ awesome car:
              \_ EXCELLENT site thanks. Looks like Camry is in fact slightly
                 safer than the Accord. I wonder how safe Priuses are.
              \_ Proof that people who buy trucks/SUVs to be "safer" are mostly
                 using the Reptilian portion of the brain to the decision
           \_ isn't that a truck?
        \_ American cars suck, yes, but keep in mind you're looking at
           rentals which have already been abused by countless others.  They
           are bad.  They aren't *that* bad.
           \_ My car was brand new (it had 20 miles on it) and it was
              *that* bad. I've driven rental Japanese cars before and
              even those were a step up.
              \_ What car was it? Why the secrecy? And what specifically
                 were the problems?
                 The Corvette is a good car for what it is. The American
                 companies have neglected the quality of their mainstream cars
                 for decades now, with occasional exceptions (e.g.
                 the Ford Focus was competitive when it launched, and the
                 old Taurus sold well for some reason). Chrysler 300 sedan
                 is supposed to be ok.
                 \_ Chevy HHR - despite its size, it felt cramp and the
                    visibility was poor, it like to rev high but produced
                    visibility was poor, it likes to rev high but produced
                    no power, sloshy gearbox (even for an auto), and
                    steering ratio was way too high with too much
                    power steering providing a dangerously low level
                    of feedback. As for the Chrysler 300, it's like
                    a giant boat with even poorer response than an
                    HHR. Good way to get your passengers sick.
2006/8/14-16 [Transportation/Car] UID:44003 Activity:nil
        Anyone know if there is an equivalent site for Los Angeles?
        \_  -tom
2006/8/14-17 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:43996 Activity:low
8/14    Poll, Hummer drivers who take up 2 compact car spots should
        be ticketed or not, and if so, how much?
        Yes: ...
        No: .
        \_ This is stupid.  It's like me ticketing you for being stupid and
           ugly.  -average Hummer owner
        \_ So only one person says yes. I guess no one cares. Too bad,
           you Hummer hater.
        \_ It seems to me that a Hummer taking up two spaces that carried
           two passengers is the same as two single occupancy vehicles taking
           up one space each.  Actually, the two single occupancy vehicles
           put together are probably worse in most cases.
           \_ Does the Hummer driver pay two shares of parking fee?
                    \_ Could something like this be done with Google Earth?
        \_ Why should this be limited to Hummer drivers?  I've seen drivers of
           small Mercedes and highly-customized Honda Civics doing the same in
           Chinatown when the garage is packed.  I was so tempted to deflate
           their tires, except that I was with my family at that time.
           \_ Because the Governator needs to be Recalled.
           \_ Because OP is a troll?
              \_ This is what trolls do to cars:
           \_ Do Hummer drivers have a choice? Can they fit into a single spot?
              \_ Nice, do you pour red paint on people wearing fur?  -John
              \_ They had a choice when they were shopping for a vehicle.
                 From what I notice on the road, most Hummer drivers don't
                 give a damn about other drivers and enjoy cutting people off
                 and parking in multiple spots, compact or not, so that
                 their vehicles don't get scratched.
              \_ They can choose to follow instructions and not to park their
                 non-compact vehicles at compact slots.
           \_ flat tires?  you are nice.  I am tempted to key the paint, and
              pour mercury on the cut so the mercury can oxidize the body
              \_ Nice, do you pour red paint on people wearing fur?  -John
           \_ The worst offenders are BMW drivers. They routinely take up
              3 or 4 spaces by parking sides ways. I think that we should
              start a vigilante campaign of clamping their wheels.
              \_ This is what trolls do to cars:
              \_ I drive a BMW and I have never done this once. If anything,
                 I have noticed the existence of a 'luxury car ghetto'
                 far from the entrance to wherever one is going. This is
                 because that cars in that area are more sparse and the chances
                 because there are fewer cars parked nearby and the chances
                 of a ding are much less. When I park in the 'ghetto' I see
                 other luxury makes like Porsche, MB, Lexus, and so on.
                 So, from the point of view of taking valuable parking
                 spots, I think luxury car drivers actually take fewer
                 premium spots. Sure, there are probably inconsiderate
                 assholes out there. I also notice that when I drive
                 a luxury car I get better treatment from other luxury
                 car owners (e.g. don't get cut off) and worse treatment
                 from the people driving big trucks than when I drive
                 my old beater. BTW, what do bike riders do for shopping?
                 Take a cab?
              \_ They can choose to follow instructions and not to park their
                 non-compact vehicles at compact slots.
                 \_ Live in a walking district.  -tom
                    \_ That won't carry home 7 bags of groceries or similar.
                       I am talking about transporting items.
                       \_ Gee, it must be impossible to transport items
                          without a car! Those non-car-drivers must be
                          sitting at home, living on water and rat carcasses!
                          Are you really this clueless?  Here's one hint:
                          if you can't carry 7 bags of groceries, you DON'T
                          BUY SEVEN BAGS OF GROCERIES!  When you live a block
                          from the market, it's not a big deal to shop smaller.
                          Hint #2: Someone came up with this remarkable idea
                          called a DELIVERY TRUCK, and most places which sell
                          large things have one or can use someone else's. -tom
                          \_ I didn't say it was impossible, but it sure is
                             inconvenient. I remember when I didn't have a
                             car. I always had to take a taxi. I live a
                             block from the market, but I rarely walk
                             (or ride bike) because even small things like
                                                   \_ because you're a lazy
                             a gallon of milk, cans of cat food and pasta
                             sauce, 2 pounds of apples, and a six pack of
                             beer can really add up (weight wise). As for
                             delivery trucks, that's not usually free. I
                             know you are a homeowner. So when you need
                             to hit the hardware store for a ladder, some
                             plywood, two ficus trees, and a sack of
                             manure don't tell me that you can easily have
                             that delivered. Of course, you can take a
                             cab. Might as well drive yourself, though.
        \_ Update: this is still cool. And the cloud data is another level of
           interestingness. (I can watch weather patterns developing. Right
           now there are interesting storms off the coast of Japan. Damn I
           wish I was running this when Katrina hit)
           \_ flat tires?  you are nice.  I am tempted to key the paint, and
              pour mercury on the cut so the mercury can oxidize the body
                 \_ So you're saying other luxury car drivers treat you better
                    when you drive a luxury car then when you drive an old
                    beater?  Hmm, in that case luxury car drivers do deserve
                    bad treatment from the average people.
                    \_ Yes, I think so. However, 'average drivers' treat
                       you worse, so it evens out.
                             \_ Uh, yes, you can easily have stuff
                                delivered from a hardware store, and it's
                                way more convenient than trying to fit
                                plywood and ficus trees into your car.
                                And while delivery may not be free, it's
                                a hell of a lot cheaper than owning a
                                car.  -tom
                                \_ There are plenty of stores that do not
                                   deliver, though. I would say more do
                                   not than do. This isn't a value
                                   judgement, but I think people need to
                                   'fess up about how inconvenient life in
                                   the US is without a car. It's not
                                   something I really find practical. It's
                                   one thing to 'ride bike (or BART)' when
                                   possible, but quite another to avoid
                                   having a car altogether.
                                   \_ I've gone without a car for 15 years now
                                      and don't find it inconvenient at all.
                                      I spend a lot less time dealing with
                                      inconvenient things like traffic,
                                      parking, and auto maintenance.  You have
                                      a completely myopic view of the world.
                                      \_ Myopic?  Pot, meet Kettle.
                                         \_ I was gonna say...
                 \_ So you're saying other luxury car drivers treat you better
                    when you drive a luxury car then when you drive an old
                    beater?  Hmm, in that case luxury car drivers do deserve
                    bad treatment from the average people.
                    \_ Yes, I think so. However, 'average drivers' treat
                       you worse, so it evens out.
                       \_ I drive a Hummer and I purposely drive and park like
                          crap just to piss you have-nots off.  -Hummer driver
2006/8/13-15 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:43989 Activity:low
8/12    What kind of car do you have, how much does it weigh, and what
        kind of mileage are you getting? I'll start:
        98 Honda Accord, 3020lbs, 27MPG
        \_ Alright thanks guys. The reason why I asked was because I was
           curious at the "efficiency" of vehicles, where I personally
           define it as follows:
                My Efficient=(miles * weight) / gallons.
           In another word, how many miles*weight can I carry per
           polluting a unit of petroleum. Sorry bikers, your efficiency
           is 0, however, if you could define your own efficiency,
           measured say, by pollution, that may work. Anyways, the
           following is the efficiency rating of the vehicles below:
                03 Protege5:    74250
                06 Prius:       141610  <--- 1st, most efficient
                06 Accord:      97170   <--- 3rd most efficient
                99 Rav4:        66700
                87 Accord:      72900
                03 BMW:         66462
                94 Pathfinder:  60720   <--- least efficient
                04 WRX Wagon:   72795
                98 Jeep Wrangler: (if shitload==3000&MPG=20, then output=60000)
                98 Audi:        weight unknown
                99 Civic:       63414 (BTW why is your mileage so low?)
                00 E320:        105300 (assume 50% hwy and 50% local) <--- 2nd
                96 Jeep Cherokee: 77000
                \_ 03 Honda F4i: 400lbs * 35MPG = 14000. In another word
                   the motorcycle is the least efficient in terms of
                   carrying weight&distance per gallon. Motorcycle engines
                   are very inefficient and not at all aerodynamic.
                   \_ That's meaningless. Transporting car weight around isn't
                      useful; transporting people and things safely is. People
                      using motorcycles are transporting themselves much more
                      efficiently than most cars, although somewhat unsafely.
           \_ Since your "weight" is the weight of the vehicle instead of the
              weight of the passenges and cargo, you do realize that your
              "efficiency" is actually the efficiency of the engine and the
              aerodynamic shape of the vehicle instead of the efficiency of the
              vehicle as a whole, right?
              \_ First of all I agree that it's a silly measurement. Secondly
                 I already said the efficiency is whatever and however you
                 define it to be. The efficiency that I'm measuring is purely
                 "how many miles*pounds can be achieve with 1 gallon of
                 fuel", and if that is affected by external factors such as
                 the driving condition, type of fuel, aerodynamics, the
                 driver's ability, and what not, so be it. In another word,
                 the numbers I'm giving out is pretty much useless. The only
                 situation that it may be useful is if you're creating lots of
                 kinetic energy bombs that travel on the highway in which you
                 need to create as much damage as possible at the final
                 destination, then you want the vehicle that has as much
                 miles*pounds/gallon rating as possible, as to make it
                 efficient. However cost should also be factored in if
                 the final effect is to crash the vehicle. Yes I'm bored so
                 I'm creating silly non-existing problems to entertain with.
        \_ 2003 Protege5, 2750, 27, I drive <200mi/month, rest on bike.
        \_ Car free since 2000.
        \_ 2006 Prius, 2890lbs, 49MPG
        \_ 2006 Accord, 3239lbs, 30MPG
        \_ 1999 Rav4, 2668lbs, 25MPG
        \_ 1987 Accord, 2700lbs, 27MPG. I'm a poor student.
        \_ 2003 BMW, 3021lbs, 22MPG
        \_ 1994 Pathfinder, 3795lbs, 16 MPG.  Yeah, baby! I get the worst
           I win!  Fuck yah!  -T.E.A.M. America World Police
           \_ Americans are dumb, exhibit A.
              \_ YHBT.
        \_ 2004 WRX Wagon, 3165lbs, 23MPG
        \_ 1998 Jeep Wrangler 2.5L, weighs a shitload, has no power, gets
           about 3MPG but gets up dirt roads.  Back home, 1998 Audi TT 1.8,
           no clue how heavy, about 25MPG  -John
           \_ Yeah, but it's got a lot of torque.
              \_ Buttloads, and awesome fun in the mountains, but for long
                 distance touring I really miss the TT.  -John
        \_ You people are all lardasses.
           \_ Yes, I'm sure you can bench twice your body weight.
        \_ 1999 Honda Civic, 2439lbs, 26MPG
        \_ 2000 Mercedes E320, 3900lbs, 25 MPG (30 hwy)
        \_ rrr... rrii... rrRRRRIDE BIKE!!@@!
        \_ 2003 Subaru; I'm ~ 168 lbs, I don't know how much the car weighs;
           It gets ~ 22 MPG.
        \_ 1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L, 3500lb (the vehicle), 22MPG on average;
           2004 Toyota Sienna LE 8-passenger, 3.3L , 23MPG on average.  (I
           don't speed.)
           don't speed.)  I miss my crappy 1987 Ford Escort 1.9L which gave me
           38MPG average.
        \_ 2006 Audi A4 Avant, weight unknown, 24 MPG.  Various motos too.
        \_ 1999 Ford Contour V6. weight ~3000lbs. about 24 mpg. And apparently
           my car is now only worth about $3000. That's interesting. I'll have
           to re-evaluate my damn insurance premiums which are about 1/3 the
           cost of the car, wtf.
2006/8/13-14 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:43986 Activity:nil
8/12    How often do fuel injectors need to be cleaned, if ever?
        \_ My understanding was that you don't need to clean injectors
           unless you have problems w/ stalling or engine knock, &c.
           I suppose you could clean them every 15K miles to be on the
           safe side. This faq may be of some use:
        \_ Do it when your mileage goes down. My Accord used to get 28MPG
           consistently but one day, it dropped to the sub 22MPG range.
           It happened after I gased up at this station where the fuel flow
           was really slow and it took 8 minutes just to fill 14 gallons.
           I'm guessing that I had put in fuel with impurities on the bottom
           of the tank, I don't know. Anyways, after putting in fuel injection
           cleaners it went up back up to the 26-27MPG range. I don't get
           28MPG anymore.
2006/8/3-6 [Transportation/Car] UID:43893 Activity:nil
8/3     Searching "ev1" on Google shows up a GM sponsored link saying that
        it is not responsible for the demise of electric vehicles. When
        I tried to place an ad on Google using AdWords, it costs me up to
        $5.00. In another word GM is willing to pay up to $5.00 for the
        keyword search "ev1". They sure have a lot of money
        for advertisements.
        \_ Searching for "evil" gives me:
           Try eBay
           Looking for eBay?
           Find exactly what you want today.
                \_ When I search "evil", I get some photos of Starr Jones
                   in a bikini.  -proud American
2006/8/3-6 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:43890 Activity:low
8/3     GM did NOT dismantle LA's mass transit. There is no conspiracy.
        The mass transit system failed because of the following reasons:
        -streetcar systems deterioration
        -subsidy of competing systems
        -competition with automobile
        Free-market forces (e.g. the "invisible hand" forces) dictate what
        people want, and people simply prefer automobiles over the mass
        transit system:
        \_ You forgot "because people who live in LA have shit for brains."
           How come the Invisible Hand doesn't kill the working mass transit
           in nyc, Boston, SF, Seattle, Denver, or DC?  Because people who
           live in these places do not have shit for brains.  Also, the
           Invisble Hand would have killed the piece of shit GM calls a
           company years ago without gov't subsidies.
           live in these places do not have shit for brains.
           \_ LA is huge
              \_ Not any larger than the area serviced by MTA-funded transit
                 around New York.  It's cultural.  Fuck LA.
                 \_ If by not any larger you mean 3 times the size, then yeah.
                 \_ LA is a lot less dense than, say, NYC. What the heck
                    are you talking about re: Seattle and Denver? They
                    don't have good mass transit. DC, SF, and NYC do. You
                    might include Chicago or Boston, but I'd say LA is
                    on par with those.
                    \_ You've obviously never lived in the greater Denver area.
                       \_ The rail line goes from Denver to Littleton and back.
                          I worked in Littleton on a contract. My hotel
                          was in downtown Denver. I drove and so did almost
                          all of the people at that company who took the
                          same route, because even if you got to the
                          Littleton station you were stuck there. I hardly
                          call one rail line an example for all the US to
                          follow. Does it go out to the airport now?
                          \_ I checked and it's three rail lines now, none
                             of which go to the airport. Combined, they
                             are a whopping 16 miles of track. I don't
                             know *why* LA can't duplicate that awesome
                             masterpiece of modern transportation engineering.
                 \_ Cars and roads are the cause, sprawl the symptom.
                    \_ Cars, roads and sprawl are all symptoms.  The disease
                       is in the mind.
        \_ It's the Jews' fault.  Just as Mel Gibson.  -proud American
2006/8/1-6 [Transportation/Car] UID:43860 Activity:nil
        Big 3 automakers see sharp declines in sales. I guess multi-billion
        dollar advertisements using famous and well liked American Idol
        superstars like Taylor Hicks, "FORD THINK BOLD" with super hot blonde
        women, and all that commercial blitz from Dr. Z saying "Chrysler is
        not dumb American but smart German engineering", all shown on prime
        time TV hasn't helped the companies that much.
        \_ "Obviously, we didn't spend enough on advertising"  -execs
        \_ I used to work with a guy who was a long time GM employee.  He
           had a lot to say about the development -> production cycle that
           pretty much guarantees they are always out of sync with what
           buyers will want by the time the vehicles are in show rooms.
           \_ I don't know, particularly Chrysler's had a history _recently_
              of getting concept cars -> production very, very fast.
           \_ I don't know about the other 2, but Ford is totally out of sync
              from what the market actually wants. Even GM is moving in the
              right direction, slowly but they're getting there. I like the way
              they turned around Cadillac and how they're doing it now with
              Saturn. Ford's problem on the other hand is that they're not
              going to bring anything fundamentally new to the market for a
              long long while.  Their biggest fuckup is the complete lack of
              competitive compact models.  The US-spec Focus is outdated, even
              though every other market in the world, including Japan and
              Russia, got the new Euro-spec Focus. They make plans to replace
              the American Focus only around 2010. They also make plan to come
              up with a competitor to Yaris, Aveo, and such in 2010-2011..
              hello? Will Ford even exist then? The Lincoln division plans to
              sell basically more expensive, more upscale Fords, etc. none
              of which sounds like a "way forward".
              \_ Ford is also Volvo, Jaguar, etc.
                 \_ Speaking of which Jaguar is a huge money loser and Ford
                    will probably end up offloading that division.
        \_ Heil Herr Dr. Z!
           \_ No need for such empty insults--Ford was started by a bona fide
        \_ I always buy American cars.  Corvettes and Vipers -- the way to
           a trashy blonde Motley Crue groupie's heart. -proud American
2006/7/27-30 [Transportation/Car, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:43821 Activity:nil
7/27    My friend swears by sythetic oil because he gets better mileage
        with it. Is it worth the extra $10-15 each oil change?
        \_ If you have a car you want to keep around for a long time,
           use synthetic.
           If you're driving some junker that will die soon,
           non synthetic is fine.
        \_ And I think you also can change the oil less often with synthetic
           so that might cover the extra cost alone.  Do keep in mind that
           once you switch to synthetic, you shouldn't switch back to
        \_ i'm reading via google that synthetic oil leaks easier than
           regular, so if you have a small leak already, don't go synth
        \_ Keep in mind that some cars ship from the factory with
           synthetic. You *have* to use synthetic for those.
        \_ I use synth oil in my car.  I pay 50% more per oil change but
           have to change half as often so a win for me.  I don't know if
           mileage is better because I've used synth since my first change.
        \_ My Mercedes uses synthetic oil and I go 10,000 miles between any
           kind of servicing include oil changes.
           \- i dont know anything about cars but i know a little about
              economics ... if synthetic oil is almost certainly a "no brainer"
              advantage in most cases ... and the price difference in %age
              terms might be large but in absolute terms is not large, how come
              it hasnt become "the standard" ... i'm sort of getting at the
              "no free lunch" idea.
              \_ It rather has become the standard for new cars.
        \_ I have always thought this synthetic oil thingy is a pure marketing
           scheme.  regular oil works for most people, especially in California
           when the weather is less of an issue.  Further, unless you REALLY
           rev your engine at REGULAR basis, you really won't see real benefit
           of the synthetic.
           \_ I change my oil half as often for 50% greater cost per change.
              The benefit is real cash in my pocket.
              \_ the frequency of oil change is a completely different story.
                 I was told even regular oil can last 10,000 miles if you don't
                 drive it hard.
                 \_ why buy a car if not to drive it hard?  if i wasnt going
                    to enjoy my car id go get some used civic and drive it
                    into the ground and do as few oil changes as possible.
2006/7/27-30 [Transportation/Car] UID:43819 Activity:nil
        Gasoline/Petro Temperature Map. See how much you're paying vs.
        your neighbors.
2006/7/24-27 [Transportation/Car] UID:43778 Activity:nil
7/24    Looking for a free site that'll tell you whether the vehicle has
        a clear title or not. If not free, then looking for the cheapest
        site. Thanks.
        \_  I've never tried it though.
           \_ If you're shopping for a car, get the Unlimited number of reports
              for 50% more. It's worth the peace of mind, and avoiding a lemon.
2006/7/24-25 [Transportation/Car] UID:43776 Activity:nil
7/24 (Wash Post)
        Israeli Apache helicopters beat back terrorism
        "Israeli forces repeatedly struck cars on southern Lebanon's already
        perilous roads in attacks that victims said were indiscriminate"
        \_ Q: How can you shoot women or children?
           A: Easy! Ya just don't lead 'em so much! Ain't war hell?
        \_ And that's the problem with Jews today:  Bad aim!  If the victims
           of helicopter attacks were able to give interviews after the
           attacks, the Israeli air force needs to send those gunners back to
2006/7/20-22 [Transportation/Car] UID:43740 Activity:low
7/20    What is the greater violent menace to the Israeli people?
        Here are the fatalities from Palestinian terrorism:
        And here are the fatalities _so_far_this_year_ from the terrorists
        of Detroit:
        In other words, cars kill more israelis in a typical year than terrists
        did in the *peak* of the intafada.
        \_ gee, and cars kill 10 times more Americans in a typical year than
           9/11 did.  How insightful.  -tom
        \_ but there are also car terrorist in israel in addition to
           hamas.. so there is double terrorism
        \_ And your point is?
           \_ My point is that the people who are frantically calling up
              friends in Israel to see if they're ok, and who are jumping up
              and down shouting about the End Times are completely out of
              touch with reality.  If one were in touch with reality, you'd
              be worried about anyone who goes to Israel being killed by
              a psycho driver on a shit road, and terrorism would not be
              taken anywhere near as seroiusly in comparison.  Especially since
              terrorism is basically random, whereas calling up your friends
              in Israel to remind them to wear seatbelts, drive less
              aggressively, and wear helmets on their bikes might actually
              save their life.  My other point is that cars are a major
              threat to world peace and that ending car culture is a national
              security issue.
              \_ Nice try, car culture guy, but you're still a silly idiot.
              \_ Whoa you were kinda making sense until the last bit.  -John
              \_ Clearely we need to revert to a simpler, more peaceful and
                 safer way of life.  Just like the Amish.
                 \_ or the Taliban
                   \_ I said Peaceful, the Taliban most decidedly were not
                      \_ you just don't understand their culture has different
                         priorities.  all cultures are equal.
                         \_ Some are just more equal than others.
              \_ Wow, and cars provide no benefit that might make the risk
                 worth it.
                 \_ Don't forget all the benefits we get from terrorism!
              \_ The terrorists win if we try to drive less and use more
                 public transportation.
                 \_ In some ways, that's almost true.  If everyone is
                    driving in seperate cars, it's very hard to kill a
                    large number of them.  Terrorists prefer to bomb
                    public transit.
                    \_ That's what they want you to think.
                    \_ Oh riiight!  As if they've bombed so many buses and
                       trains compared to individual autos.  Not a single
                       skateboarder has *ever* been killed by a suicide
                       bomber.  Think about it!
                       \_ Ride bike!  ^_^;;
                 \_ Really?  Price per barrel will drop and we'll be buying
                    fewer barrels.  So they'll be getting less money from us.
        \_ Even worse than car accidents and terrorism is the fatality rate
           of being born, at a staggering 100%.
2006/7/19-22 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:43733 Activity:nil 74%like:43683
7/20    Tomorrow, Fri 7/21, is the sixth (and most likely last) Spare the Air
        Day of the year with FREE transit rides all day and FREE parking at all
        BART stations.
        \_ I know for bike to work day there were places that gave you stuff
           like free coffee if you were on a bike.  Kinda nice.  Anyone know
           if anyone does that for Spare the Air Days?
           \_ Not that I know of.  But then you are already getting free stuff
              which are the free rides.
        \_ People are not going to ride bike unless there are immediate
           paybacks. People want incentives in the form of instant rewards.
           I propose we think about what this incentive should be. Coffee
           is nice, yes. But donut is better.
2006/7/19-20 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:43727 Activity:nil
7/19    My wheel says it is 622-13c, but my tire says 700-23c. Shouldn't
        they fit? Did the previous owner fuck up the tire fit?
           It should fit.  Bike tire sizing is a mess.  -tom
2006/7/18-20 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:43710 Activity:nil
        Ultra narrow car that'll increase capacity by as much as 2X!
        (ob rollover and lawsuit discussions below)
        \_ 0-60 in 4sec!
        \_ what does the "(ob rollover ...)" line mean?
           \_ ob = obligatory
        \_ 0-60 in 4sec!  1000 lb-ft torque!
        \_ won't roll over, it's got heavy-ass batteries on the bottom
           read the site.  they're getting a patent for the wildly novel
           concept of using batteries as ballast.
           \_ Did they take into account the upward shift of the CG when the
              vehicle is driven by the average fat-ass American?
                \_ The vehicle weighs an amazing 3000 pounds (is that a typo?)
                   even the fattest American won't affect it much.
                   \_ 3000lb with no regenerative brakes.  This vehicle is not
                      going to be very energy efficent.
                         claims 2200lbs and regenerative brakes.  The T600 is
                         their like "race car for rich people" version.  Also,
                         electric motors are much more efficient than IC or
                         Diesel.  This is why gas + fuel cell + electric
                         motors is almost a win.
                         \_ I didn't realize there are more than one model
                            until now!  Gee, the web pages are confusing.
2006/7/12-16 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:43641 Activity:low
7/12    Edith Delgado, the Redwood City teenager who single-handedly stemmed
        democratic reforms in the island kingdom of Tonga. (
        Neither nor found this photo.
        \_ So you can kill royal family members and go to jail for only 8
           years?  Automobiles-- the best instrument for murder.
           \_ I think there's this little issue of intent.  Without intent,
              it's not technically murder.  OTOH, if you try to run down
              someone with your car with clear intent to hit them, that's a
              whole different ball park.
        \_ Stemmed?  Perhaps stymied would be closer to the truth....
        \_ she's already dead.. just a matter of time a couple of
        samoans approach her if they find her..
        \_ the pic is from her myspace profile, which appears to have been
           shut down
        \_ I thought Americans are pro-democracy.
           \_ Yup, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Russia... all of them are fine
              example of democracy.
        \_ Going 100mph with a five-month old license.  What a bitch.  (I'm not
           saying experience drivers can go 100mph.)
           saying experienced drivers can go 100mph.)
           saying experienced drivers can go 100mph, though.)
        \_ I don't know the details, but from the description, it sounds like
           it should have been a survivable crash. I guess Ford Explorers suck.
           \_ And Mustangs totally kick ass.
              \_ Well it sounded like she just sideswiped the Explorer, which
                 then swerved and rolled. I wonder how fast it was going.
                 Not excusing the idiot girl in any way btw...
              \_ Incidentally, both Explorers and Mustangs are Ford.
        \_ please stop putting up fotos of fat girls, ok thx.
           \_ She's got boobs.
2006/6/19-21 [Transportation/Car] UID:43427 Activity:low
6/19    How do you guys like the new Ford commercial featuring Taylor Hicks?
        Sexy? Bold? Makes you want to buy a Ford? FORD. BOLD. Yeah baby.
        \_ Dropping 25k jobs here to dump $9.2B into 150k jobs at 3 plants
           in Mexico:  BOLD.
        \_ The one where the woman pays for the guy's drycleaning and passes
           along her business card make me think "chemically imbalanced" not
           along her business card makes me think "chemically imbalanced" not
           \_ You prefer your women demure and stupid, giggling in the corner
              with the rest of their friends waiting, oh just hoping beyond
              hope that *you* will come by and save them from the solitary
              life of old maid?
              \_ Your entire experience of women consists of only two classes,
                 those who make passes at random guys they've only seen through
                 their rear-view mirrors and those who are demure and stupid?
                 Shutdown the computer and go outside. Now.
                 \_ Not at all.  Does your entire experience of people consist
                    of the flip 3 line comments from the motd?  "Shutdown the
                    computer and go outside. Now."
                    \_ You're either a misgynist troll or you need to be more
                       clear in your writing. Either way, some time away from
                       the computer would certainly improve your condition.
                       Just remember to use sunscreen to protect your pale
                       \_ How is being an admirer of aggresive women make
                          one misogynist? I really can't wrap my head around
                          that kind of thinking that would make you come up
                          with that assessment. Btw, giving a guy your number
                          is not the same as "making a pass at." -!op
                          \_ Reply poster seemed to posit that woman come in
                             only two flavors: those who give their phone
                             numbers to random guys on the basis of how they
                             look in a rear-view mirror, or those who are
                             demure and stupid. How is this not misogynist?
                             \_ How about you ask?  Poster was saying that
                                there is nothing "mental" about an aggressive
                                woman.  In fact, if it was the other way around
                                we wouldn't call the guy aggressive, so why do
                                we say she's chemically imbalanced and
                                aggressive but he wouldn't be?  Not only is the
                                poster not misogynist but some reading comp.
                                would show the opposite and Mr. "She's
                                Chemically Imbalanced" is the one with the
                                woman-hating issue here.  The "get some sun"
                                comments are just stupid.  You're posting to
                                the motd all day long from your cube.
                                \_ Mostly because Reply poster didn't bother
                                   asking before assuming that I was saying
                                   that any bold woman is chemically
                                   imbalanced. If poster had asked, I would
                                   have gladly explained that it's the act of
                                   tossing your number out to any stranger on
                                   the basis of one glance in the rear-view
                                   mirror that strikes me as chemically
                                   imbalanced, no matter which gender. Oh,
                                   that and the idea that you get your bold
                                   qualities from a car. Instead, assumptions
                                   were made, and from there to facile
                                   \_ Ok.  So we're back at step 1.  The woman
                                      was hitting on the guy based on his looks
                                      in the rear view.  What is different
                                      between that and meeting him in a bar and
                                      giving him her number?  If he did the
                                      same thing (paying for her dry cleaning,
                                      etc) would you say he was chemically
                                      imbalanced?  Probably not which is what
                                      I was getting at.  Please correct me if
                                      you think just as poorly of guys doing
                                      the same thing.  As far as getting your
                                      qualities from your car goes, I didn't
                                      even realise it was a car commercial. :)
                                      \_ Honestly, if it was a guy doing this,
                                         I'd immediately think he was kinda
                                         sleazy, but that's because I'm an
                                         utter cynic. And you didn't realize
                                         this was a car commercial??? OMG. :)
                                         \_ I auto tune out most commercials.
                                            I got the 'plot' on this one, but
                                            not the product, which is normal
                                            for me.  Mostly I was thinking how
                                            cool it would be if someone paid
                                            for my dry cleaning.  :)
                                            \_ Now, see, I would love it if
                                               that were the point of the
2006/6/17-21 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:43424 Activity:nil
6/17    Are Mavic Aksium wheels better than Shimano R540 wheels?
2006/6/14-19 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:43393 Activity:nil
        Our attempts to abate traffic in big cities has largely failed.
        \_ The automobile has been a massive failure as a personal
           transportation system.
           \_ On the contrary. The automobile has allowed poor average Joes
              to live in typical suburbian McMansions that dim-wits and
              his followers love, and provides a lifestyle that was
              unimaginable in the pre-WW2 era. The American dream is to buy
              a big home, and the only affordable way is to live in the boony
              far away from civilization.
           \_ It's done great so far, it won't be so great when
              we're out of oil.
              \_ You're mixing up the issue of growing oil scarcity with
                 that of traffic congestion.  There's no reason why we'll have
                 to stick with petroleum engines in cars in the long run, but
                 traffic will remain a problem.  -John
           \_ Freedom is slavery!  Red is green!  Power is weakness!
           \_ Tell that to the people who walk 100+ miles a day to
              get anywhere. You should really take a trip, not a vacation,
              and visit those places. See how lucky you have it. How
              much of a whining little baby everyone who complains as inanely
              and useless as that is.
              \_ That's funny.  I spent 3 months bicycling through SE Asia
                 and people got along just fine riding bicycles and motorcycles.\
                 There are other options besides cars for personal
                 transportation. IMOP cars/trucks should only be used for
                 freight.  Also, having ridden 100miles in one day on a bike,
                 there is no way you can walk 100+ miles a day.  Maybe you
                 are the one that needs to get out more. -scottyg
              \_ Who walks more than 100+ miles a day?  At 5 mph that is a
                 minimum of 20 hrs a day spent walking.
                 \_ At least kids today don't have to walk uphill both ways!
              \_ You really should take a trip, not a vacation, to a place
                 that has a good transit system not based on the automobile.
                 See how stupid it is to spend thousands of hours of your
                 life sitting in a two ton steel box, often not moving.
                 See how silly those whining SUV drivers really are.
2006/6/12-15 [Transportation/Car, Industry/Startup] UID:43361 Activity:nil
        40 self-reliant climbers left an Everest climber to die.
        I bet most of them are Republicans.
        \- while this is troubling and there may be relevant details
        \- while this is disturbing and there may be relevant details
           which are not mentioned, the "moral hazard" problem with
           something like an expensive everest trip is a very real
           one. "moral hazard" in ths case meaning "i can go in
           underprepared because someone else will have to pull
           my bacon out of the fire". in the everest case, unlike
           say mckinley maybe, the answer is not "they should be
           forced to post a rescue bond or get some kind of evac
           insurance", because helipoptering somebody out is not
           insurance", because helicoptering somebody out is not
           really an option. also, as the size of the climbing
           community widens, it's highly likely the norms of a small
           group with repeated encounters and thicker bonds will
           change. so is your "democratic" solution the nepalese
           govt should simply not allow non-highly outfitted
           climbers on to the mountain? deaths are perhaps not a
           daily event in the sola khumbu [the everest region]
           but a certain fact of operating there [when i was in
           that part of nepal, i heard about 5 deaths, and i wasnt
           there in the main pre-monsoon climbing season but in
           the post monsoon secondary season] and i am sure we
           didnt hear about everything.
           didnt hear about everything. i'll avoid a broader and
           more abstract dscussion about moral obligation in efforts
           to cut down my motd time.
           \_ Once again your long discussion has been classified as:
              Lots of words but contributes very little to the discussion.
              \- you clearly dont know what "moral hazard" means,
                 have not followed the mckinley insurance controversy ,
                 and dont have a framework to think about reputational
                 effects in different sized social groups.
                 i.e. you are E_TOOSHORT and missing the points.
                 you on the other hand truly contribute nothing, and
                 dont get style points for originality either.
2006/6/12-13 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:43353 Activity:low
6/11    Can you get a ticket for going 65MPH in the carpool/fast lane?
        What if you do what those stupid Atlanta kids did?
        \_ yes, you can.  my brother got the ticket for it and it cost him
           something like $65 :D
           \_ What was the ticket and did he fight it? I don't understand
              how you can be ticketed for going the MAXIMUM speed as posted
              by law? What I hate most about the US isn't Bush or Liberurls,
              it's the stupid speed limit law that allows any cop to
              arbitrarily decide who to ticket bc everyone goes >65mph.
              \_ If traffic is moving at say, 30mph, driving 35mph over traffic
                 flow is unsafe.  Yes carpool lanes should keep moving, but
                 staying at 55 or so is probably a good idea.  That way if
                 people want to merge in/out of the carpool lane they actually
                 \_ If you go below the speed limit in the carpool lane you
                    usually get massively tailgated.
2006/6/10-13 [Transportation/Car, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:43347 Activity:nil
6/10    So I've read a bunch of places that the Core2 Duo is likely to be in
        short supply at release unless you are Dell or HP.  Does anyone know a
        reliable place that is likely to get decent stock of them and take
        preorders?  Newegg has an auto-notify feature only, which isn't much
        help if they sell out before I can check my email.
2006/6/9-11 [Transportation/Car] UID:43342 Activity:low
6/9     An animated fable about happy cars might have made sense before gas
        hit three bucks a gallon, but even an earlier sticker date couldn't
        shake the story's underlying creepiness, which comes down to the fact
        that there's nothing alive here: nada, zip. In this respect, the film
        can't help but bring to mind James Cameron's dystopic masterpiece,
        "The Terminator"...
        \_ $3.49 for me last week, thanks.
           \_ only $3.39 for me, and that's premium at Chevron
              \_ You guys should buy cars that don't require
                 premium.  Don't put premium in cars that don't
                 require it.  (It can pollute more)
                 \_ Why should we buy cars that don't require premium?
                    \_ There is no such thing as "premium" gas.  "Premium gas"
                       is a pure marketing term.  There are "high octane" gas
                       and "low octane" gas.  Engine's compression ratio,
                       for all practical purposes, is the only determing
                       factor on what kind of gas you need.  high-compression
                       ratio engine requires high octane gas, etc. AND yes,
                       high-compression ratio engine is often being associated
                       with high-performing cars, but that is not necessarily
                       true.  The oil company is marketing "high octane" gas
                       as "premium gas" because the profit margin on refining
                       high octane gas is higher than low octane gas.  And
                       there are plenty people, including you, who are stupid
                       enough to equate "high-octane" to "higher quality"
                       and unnecessarily paid extra $0.2 per gallon to fuel
                       their car.                       -kngharv
                    \_ Cost $.20 more a gallon, and most cars that use it
                       don't seem to get any better milage.  I could be
                       wrong there though.
                       \_ Not exactly. Premium gas doesn't really help
                          you achieve better mileage. Certain high-end
                          engines require premium gas so that the engine
                          doesn't knock.
                       \_ So in other words "to save 20/gallon"... which
                          works out (for me) to < $100/yr.  Factor that into
                          the price of a car and it's pretty much negligible.
                          Besides, recently the difference has been more like
                          \_ No kidding. It's a 5% difference. I put premium
                             into all of my cars, even my old beater. I
                             read that older cars actually need it more.
                             \_ Umm.. no.  If your car doesn't knock, it
                                doesn't do you any good, and pollutes more.
        \_ Don't split a post in the middle.
2006/5/29-31 [Transportation/Car] UID:43214 Activity:nil
        German thieves tried to steal a car without an engine.
2006/5/26-31 [Transportation/Car] UID:43200 Activity:nil
5/26    A friend of mine's dad had a stroke yesterday and is still in
        intensive care. The problem is, he just came to the US and is
        in the process of becoming a green card holder.  (kind of like
        fiance visa, came here first, then apply for permanent
        residence..) the problem of course is he does not have medical
        insurance. The medical bill might be astronomical.  What
        options do they have? Will applying for insurance out of
        pocket now help in any way? If he really doesn't have the
        money to cover the expense, what then? I don't want to talk
        about money with my friend now, but in case he asks me in the
        future, I would like to have some useful information for him.
        \_ Negotiate with the hospital, they can usualyl half it or more.
           But in all honesty, ignore the bill, what are they goign to do
           send collections on him? Sorry to sound so cold.
           \_ Yes they will.  And they will keep hounding him.  When he dies
              a lien will be put on life insurance and any assets that would
              be transfered.  His wife may be responsible for his debts as
              well.  This is why medical insurance is so fucked up in this
           \_ I wish this would work, but it doesn't work that way in the US.
              Read the forms and small prints you guys signed. Someone's gonna
              pay for the bills and anyone involved will have to pay for it,
              in terms of time (trying to clarify issues) or money, or both.
              Hospitals are better at collecting money than IRS. Trust me,
              I've been there and I'm pretty pissed too. I'm really sorry
              about what happened. I'm not so crazy about the state of
              health insurance in the United States either. This is one of
              the reasons why many Asians (esp. HK people) went to Canada
              instead of the US after the communists took over-- smaller,
              kinder, more efficient and more humane social services.
           "by offering to pay cash in advance ... Sandi got her obstetrician
           to drop his price from $3,000 to $1,900 ...
           'Unfortunately, someone who is uninsured or under-insured gets
           charged 5, 6, or 7 times what an insurance company would pay for
           exactly the same service' ... Many doctors and hospitals are willing
           to make a deal, but unless you ask you'll never get one"
        \_ Not sure if it will help, but what country is he from?
        \_ Hospitals are open to negotiations, so try that. Also, what
           kind of hospital is it, a private or county hospital?
           \_ Thanks everyone.  This is Santa Clara valley medical
              center on S Bascom Ave in San Jose. This person just
              came from China. His wife is a permanent residence, and
                                                       \_ "yo mama's so big..."
              his son probably is the one signed all the stuff at the
              hospital. Does that mean they'll go after the son if
              they cannot pay? I'll tell him about the negotiation part..
              \_ When I have had family visit for longer trips, we took
                 out visitor insurance for them.  Did your friend not
                 even think about/know about this, or did he consider
                 it and then decide not to bother?
                 \_ He didn't know about it. I guess I didn't know
                    about it either until now.
                 \_ I didn't know. Who do you go to for "visitor insurance"?
        \_ one of my coworkers told me a story that sounds similar... her
           mom was visiting from India and ended up in the hospital with
           complicated medical problems. The bill was huge and would have
           required a second mortgage on their house etc and caused her
           incredible amounts of stress for almost a year. What ended up
           happening was the bill was paid through some kind of emergency
           financial assistance arranged through the hospital, but it was
           not easy to get, they had to go through tons of bureaucracy -
           not easy to get, they had to go through tons of beaurocracy -
           long and complicated forms, different financial and background
           checks and they went through an appeal process at least once.
           checks and they had to go through an appeal process at least once.
           In the end they got the money though. I wish I could be more
           specific but I don't really have the details.
2006/5/24-28 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:43172 Activity:nil
        Yay, now you can drive an SUV and still pay $2/gallon gas!
2006/5/22-25 [Transportation/Car] UID:43138 Activity:nil
5/22    What a beautiful day! I just bought my first new car. I bought a
        Honda Accord LX. I didn't add any options but I have 29 days to
        think about adding them. First, the sales lady asked if I'd like to
        get Lo-Jack, option 2&3. "You have the #1 stolen car in America". The
        option guarantees 24 hour recovery service or $ back. At $699, she
        said the cost of it will reduce insurance cost and pay itself off
        during the lifetime that I own it (for +8 years). Is that really true
        or marketing BS? I'm sceptic of all salespeople. Secondly, she
        offered a full 3-year oil change, minor, and intermediate,
        services for $599 at her dealer, or at any PepBoys, and it would
        really save a lot especially for someone like me who drives over
        25,000 miles a year. She said if I go to the dealer all the time,
        which I do because I don't trust little shops, I'll save at
        least $1200 by buying this package. "Each intermediate service
        is already $150 and it'll pay itself by the first year!"
        Is this a good deal, or just marketing BS? I have 29 days to think
        about this. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.
        \_ You can call your insurance company about the lojack pricing and
           do the math.  How often are you supposed to do those $150 services?
           My 5k service is $99 which includes a hefty fee for the synthetic
           oil change.  You don't need to go to the dealer for an oil change.
           And driving 25k miles a year means you'll hit 200k miles in 8
           years.  I really doubt you'll have this car in 8 years.  Long before
           then you have good chances of paying wads of cash to keep it going
           which you'll quickly figure out isn't worth it to keep a car with
           100k+ miles going in many cases.  Sure it's a Honda, blah, blah,
           but I'm guessing from your post that you'll be buying a new one at
           about the 4-5 year mark.  Good luck and let us know what you
           decide.  This is from a guy who drives his cars into the ground so
           I've got a good idea what those later repairs cost.
        \_ If your car is stolen you probably don't want it back. I'd skip
           the Lo Jack. I'd probably buy the maintenance plan, but it
           depends on what the intermediate service includes. Oil changes
           and minor service don't cost much. I have a 1993 Honda Accord
           with 135K miles that I bought in 1995 and I've spent less than
           $2K total on the car, but if I had the package I'd probably
           have taken better care of it (not that anything has done
           wrong). Does Honda schedule maintenance by how many miles you
           have driven? If so, the intermediate service is every how many
           miles? I was introduced to these sort of plans when I bought
           my BMW (which includes maintenance) and I rather like it.
           However, BMW maintenance costs a lot more than Honda maintenance.
        \_ Congrats on the car. Now try to get out of the habit of going to
           the dealer. I used to do the same, but you slowly realize that
           they all jack you, in terms of inappropriate diagnoses, over-
           charging you, etc. Find a big shop and take it there.
           \_ Depends on what's wrong. Dealers have really reduced their
              prices in an effort to be competitive and if they mess up
              you can complain to the parent company. You can also hold
              the threat of never buying another new car from them over
              their head. I used to be one of those guys who *never* went
              to the dealer and did a lot of work myself, but my opinion has
              changed as cars have gotten more complicated.
              \- where do you live? i know people in SF who have had their
                 cars stolen [including me] but nobody in the south bay,
                 one one person in berkeley, nobody on the other side of the
                 caldecott or on the peninsula and one person in oakland but
                 he wanted to have his car stolen. maybe just get an alarm?
2006/5/18-22 [Transportation/Car, Science/Electric] UID:43100 Activity:nil
5/18    I need to get a stove and from what I can tell, induction is the way
        to go. Is there any reason not to get an induction stove?
        \_ This was on KAIS MOTD a while ago but I can't search anymore.
        \_ You like to cook? If so, gas is the way to go.
                \_ I second that.
           \_ Remember that stoves and ovens often come together and gas ovens
              have the disadvantage that they generate water vapor and to make
              it harder to crisp foods.
           \_ Once you get used to it, electric has some advantages: much lower
              simmers, for one.
               \_ Bah.
               \_ What's another? The one I see is that it is easier to clean.
                  The glass-surface ones anyway. But the temperature changes
                  are so sloow. I much prefer gas but now I'm stuck with elec.
                  \_ For the same cost, a low-end electric burner seems to
                     deliver BTUs faster to a flat-bottomed vessel than a
                     gas burner.  They are slow, but you learn to deal with it
                     (take things off burner while cooling, leave extra time
                     for initial warmup)
                     \_ I don't care about cost. Yes you can deal with it but
                        the bottom line is electric is less versatile and also
                        less fun.
               \_ Usually not very fine control when simmering. It's very
                  easy to burn sauces when cooking on electric and much
                  less so on gas. With a high BTU gas burner, the heat is
                  almost instant (for searing, for example). My experience
                  with electric is that it's usually too hot or too cold
                  because it takes time for the coils to settle to the
                  correct temperature.
                  \_ Agreed that it takes a while for the coils to settle but
                     if you can wait for it, you get much finer control at low
                     heat with electric than with gas.
            \_ No self respecting cook would use anything except a gas range,
               period.  You lose all control with electric, and you are limited
               to flat bottom pots and pans.  If you want a lower flame use
               a cast iron flame tamer.  If you are worried about water vapor
               in the oven, they make combination stove ovens which have
               electric elements in the oven, and a gas range.  Personally gas
               is better in my opinion for the oven as water vapor helps to
               improve oven spring when baking bread and helps to transport
               heat.  I prefer convection ovens anyways.
               \_ Your points are valid, but you brand yourself an idiot by
                  beginning with "no self respecting cook..."  I'm pretty sure
                  I wouldn't have a hard time finding a chef who, even so
                  woefully handicapped by cooking on electric, could could the
                  pants off of you.
                  \_ Your logic does not follow.
        \_ Are you the infamous "induction" guy?
           \- do you guys pushing electrics work for msft?
2006/5/18-22 [Transportation/Car] UID:43097 Activity:nil
        Another wacky German
2006/5/8-10 [Transportation/Car] UID:42985 Activity:nil
        "... filling up the tank simply doesn't eat up that much of
         most families' budgets."
        Not good. I hope gasoline price goes up to $8/gallon. -liberal
        \_ It's true.  Unless you're a truck driver or something, gas
           isn't that expensive.  It's ceratinly not expensive enough to
           get people to reduce their commutes or ride bikes. -jrleek
        \- dear parochial liberal: do you realize this has consequences
           for poor people who may live on $500-$2000/year and may need
           kerosene to cook or for light at night? maybe you should wish
           for higher gas taxes, but when the global price goes up, it
           for higher US gas taxes, but when the global price goes up, it
           causes major pain for some poor people. while i am at it, something
           \_ Not to mention the fact that rising gas prices will cause
              the cost of most consumer goods, including that of food, and
              of many services to go up.  -John
           like avian flu already has had real costs again for poor people
           who say are small egg farmers when the price of eggs went down
           80% because people paniced and stopped buying eggs [although
           possibly some poor people are now more able to consume eggs,
           which would be a good protein source for them]. but yeah, i've
           said previously for the typical bay area while collar person making
           say +$80k/yr driving, gas going from $1.95 - $2.30/gal is annoying
           but doesnt really change life much.
           say +$80k/yr, gas going from $1.95 -> $2.30/gal is annoying but
           doesnt really change life much.
        \_ Triple gasoline prices to $10/gallon and it doesn't affect me that
           much.  Triple my grocery bill, my PG&E bill, HOA dues, etc. and now
           I'm in pain.
2006/5/6-10 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:42959 Activity:nil
5/6     "High price hurting 7/10 Americans"
        I really don't understand this. On average gas price is 5-10% of a
        person's income whereas housing is about 50% (and in coastal cities,
        75%). Gas price barely moved up 50 cents from $2.50 whereas
        housing price nearly doubled in the past few years. Why do people
        gripe about gasoline when it is only 10% of their income and
        the increase is not even that significant, but don't say anything
        about their housing costs?
        \_ I think your 5-10% estimate is a bit high, but your 20% increase
           in gas price is way understated.  It's up 33% in the last year.
           In the last three years it has doubled, and in some places tripled.
        \_ Because their housing cost is fixed.  Also, poorer people who don't
           own homes still have to pay for gas.  (Well, at least they think
           they do.) -tom
        \_ Don't forget that high gas prices raise the cost of almost all goods,
           including food.
           \- Does anybody know ball park what %age of US petroleum use
           \- Does anybody know ball park what %age of US petroleum
              goes into fertilizer and non-energy petrochem uses like
              plastics, nylon, non-dairy creamers etc? ok tnx.
              \_ alot of petroleum products are using  byproducts of the
                 refining of crude.  Also, gas prices factored into goods are
                 largely due to transportation of goods from producer to point
                 of sale.
                 \- i udnerstand there are some complexities to this answer
                    such as the distillation column ... so say the demand for
                    paraffin may not compete with the demand for gas, but i
                    think there is still an answer.
                 Should be at least partially informative.
                 \_ Thanks. This is VERY informative, probably one of
                    the most informative links on motd. The electrical
                    energy lost is quite surprising (27.8). The
                    transportation energy lost however, is not (22.4).
                    Energy for transportation is a waste. Fuck suburbia.
                    Fuck GWB and his SUV loving friends.
2006/5/5-9 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Bicycle] UID:42947 Activity:nil
        The automobile has not merely taken over the street, it has
        dissolved the living tissue of the city. Its appetite for space is
        absolutely insatiable; moving and parked, it devours urban land,
        leaving the buildings as mere islands of habitable space in a sea
        of dangerous and ugly traffic."--James Marston Fitch, New York Times,
        May 1, 1960
        \_ wow, so well said ... this describes my childhood in the LA
           suburbs to a T. and in 1960? amazing.
        \_ Nice article, but your quote kind of disguises it.  I'm working
           myself up to biking to work more regularly.  Maybe a light
           weight set of panniers would help.  Any recommendations?  I
           have a 20 year old schwinn road bike. -jrleek
2006/5/4-9 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:42942 Activity:nil
5/4     How come motorcycle tires tend to have smaller tires on the front
        whereas bicycle tires have symmetrical sizes?
        \_ I can't answer for motorcycles, but for bikes, it's for simplicity
           in spare parts, and the performance differences of differently-sized
           wheels are not very great.  Some bikes for small women have a
           smaller front wheel, to allow for a shorter top tube with
           sufficient foot clearance, and some downhill mountain bikes
           have a 26" front wheel and 24" rear to push the center of gravity
           backwards.  -tom
        \_ consider that motorcycles tend to be rear wheel drive vehicles.
           granted, so are bicycles, but I don't know of many riders who
           can output as much HP/torque on bike as a motorcycle engine.
           Also, do you mean larger diameter or wider tires?
2006/5/4-7 [Transportation/Car] UID:42937 Activity:nil
        List of annoying driving habits:
        1. Distracted drivers talking on cell phones (28.5 percent)
        2. Slow drivers in the fast lane (21.6 percent)
        3. Pushy drivers who tailgate (18.1 percent)
        4. Drivers who weave through traffic to gain one or two
           car lengths (12.5 percent)
        5. Obnoxious drivers who speed up to keep you from changing
           lanes (5.5 percent)
        6. Hasty drivers who change lanes without signaling (4.9 percent)
        7. Road Rage (2.7 percent)
        8. Motorcyclists who race down the middle of a lane,
           between cars (2.1 percent)
        9. Women applying makeup and men shaving (1.7 percent)
        10. Drivers who leave their turn signal on for miles (0.92 percent)
        \_ Wow.  Distracted Drivers don't annoy me unless they interact with
           me in a dangerous fashion, at which time they frighten me.
2006/4/5-6 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:42670 Activity:moderate
4/4     I am glad I don't live in the suburbs where thing like this happen:
        \_ The chance of this happening is /1000 than the chance of your
           kid doing acid or weed in the city.
           \_ You think there's not a similar or greater chance of your kid
              doing acid or weed in the burbs?
           \_ I'm glad you compare being murdered with doing acid and weed.
              It really helps bring out the crazy.
           \_ ooh yeah, kids in the suburbs never do weed
           \_ You missed Frontline last night; the odds of this happening
              are 1/1000th the chance of the same kid getting hooked on Meth
              in the 'burbs.
        \_ Bitter. Young. Poor. Single. Carless. Sardine.
           \_ Huh?  Enthusiastic, young, well-off, 10 year relationship, 2
              cars, big apartment.  -John (not op)
              \_ Old, foreign, !op, DINK.
        \_ I'm not sure why people are making this a suburb vs. city debate,
           and basing it on spurious anecdotal arguments.  If the posters
           above actually care about this, why doesn't someone find statistics
           on homicide and drug crimes in the city vs. suburbs, scaled per
           capita to account for population differences. -dans
           \_ Another reason this "debate" is silly is that no one is bothering
              to define what they mean by suburb or city.  It's like the
              richest counties list that someone posted that showed that the
              richest counties are all in the West, where counties are the
              size of eastern states.  But all that is beside the point.  The
              point is that this is just another battle in the Great American
              Culture war, and that there are people on both sides on the motd
              who hate each other.  This is just another excuse for us to snipe,
              and I appreciate it.  I don't actually deal with the other side
              in the culture wars in my daily life, so the chance to tell
              someone like Dim to go fuck himself is a golden opportunity for
              who hate each other.  This is just another excuse for us to
              snipe, and I appreciate it.  I don't actually deal with the
              other side in the culture wars in my daily life, so the chance
              to tell someone like Dim to go fuck himself is a golden
              opportunity for me.
              \_ It's shocking that both sides are so out of touch with
                 reality that someone needs to formally define the difference
                 between a suburb and a city before a reasonable discussion
                 can take place.  Hmm, maybe this is something that can bring
                 the two sides together!  Either both sides are smart and
                 utterly, totally disingenuous and intellectually dishonest,
                 or both sides are absurdly petty naive and stupid!  Awesome!
                 \_ You're ignoring my second point, which is that reasonable
                    discussion is not the goal here.
                    \_ You're ignoring my point that you're either a liar or
                       a fool so I'm not interested in either of your points.
           \_ Pft.  What fun would actually *knowing* be?
              \_ Good point.  I stand corrected. -dans
2006/4/4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:42663 Activity:kinda low
4/4     New Citroen w/ instant on/off engine:
        \_ Is that anything like Intel's viiv instant on?  :-)
2006/4/4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:42660 Activity:high
4/4     For the folks who keep suggesting that building well-designed cities
        won't work, consider that the rush to suburbanization was artificially
        created by real estate developers and car manufacturers who
        aggressively destroyed public transportation and bribed public
        officials to pass no-mixed-use zoning laws to force out downtown
        businesses. This is not conspiracy theory. See "Home from Nowhere"
        for more details.
        \_ Great.  Name one well-designed city.  I am genuinely curious
           as to what it is you want your cities to be like (don't get me
           wrong, I love living in cities, and I rent, but I feel from your
           posts that you may be seeing things a bit simplistically.)  -John
           \_ New York especially Manhatten, SF, Paris.  Seattle,
              although less so than the others. Boston and Chicago but I
              haven't spent more than a few weeks in those.
              \_ You do understand that there are more jobs in cities than
                 living space for people, right?  It takes a *lot* more space
                 per person for living than for working.  So it is necessary
                 for people to come from elsewhere to fill those jobs since
                 the city lacks living space for everyone.  We call the place
                 where all those workers live "the suburbs".  Now then, I do
                 understand than in Utopiaville, the jobs/living space balance
                 is in perfect harmony becaus our Beloved City Planners were
                 able to magically predict population growth, demographic
                 shifts, and drastic changes in the economy but outside of
                 LaLa Fairy Land most of the rest of us live in the burbs and
                 work in the city.  Not because we like commuting 2-3 hours a
                 day but because we can't afford to live in the city near our
                 jobs.  I think it's funny you'd choose SF as an ideal city
                 since the public transit sucks and by plane, train, or auto-
                 mobile it can easily take an hour or more to get anywhere.
                 Manhatten is a shithole.  Paris is hardly any better.  I
                 haven't been to the other cities you mention but I suspect
                 they have suburbs and an inner city just like everywhere
                 else.  I suspect you've been reading too much utopian fantasy
                 academic literature without taking a step back and looking at
                 how real people live and why.  People aren't little cogs or
                 resource units for you to push around from one square to the
                 \_ Singapore doesn't have any suburbs.  Everyone (>4 million)
                    lives and works in the city.
                    \_ Ok great let's add 'caning' to the books, too.  I
                       can't wait to join your Utopiaville.
                       \_ american cities were built when blacks still have
                          to sit at the back of the bus.  what's your point?
                       \_ nah, the suburbs of chicago is utopia.  very low
                          crime, living is easy but rather boring.
                    \_ or drives in on a motorbike from Malayasia --oj
                       \_ are you from catholic high or hcjc?
                    \_ Same with Hong Kong.
                 \_ I have lots of colleagues who lives in the city and works
                    in the suburbs here in Chicago.
                    \_ As I said, I've never been to Chicago.  Do you think
                       your friends are typical of the Chicago area?
                       \_ I don't know.  I guess they like the city.  I like
                          to live near my work.  I don't see why it should
                          be difficult to have the jobs move to the suburbs.
                          It's happening here in Chicago.  I rarely need to
                          go to the city.  I don't have a problem with your
                          conclusion, but the argument you are using - jobs
                          are in the city, no living space there - may not
                          be a valid assumption.  Chicago suburb cities like
                          Naperville or Schaumburg have lots of jobs, but
                          you still need a car.
                 \_ You have been brainwashed. It used to be that all workers
                    lived and worked in cities.
                    \_ This worked when you had servants willing to live in
                       tiny closets.  -John
                       \_ Do most people living in the cities have servants
                          \_ Do you think many of the gardeners, shop
                             assistants, cleaners, maids, dishwashers,
                             cab drivers and other fairly low paid but
                             important blue collar workers live in
                             Manhattan?  Hint: no.  Upshot:  Yes, you can
                             create much better public transportation to
                             the suburbs than what most American cities have,
                             but you'll never have some magical fairyland
                             self-contained urban ideal.  Nor do the Euro
                             cities so many urban planning advocates cite
                             as examples have it right.  -John
                 \_ You can afford to live in the city you work in. You cannot
                    afford a 4000 sq ft house in the city you work in. My
                    commute from one side of San Francisco to the other is
                    35 minutes on a bad day, using rapid transit.
                    \_ I can't afford a 4000 sqft house in the suburbs either
                       which means I could afford about 700-900 sqft in the
                       city if I was lucky.  I've lived in that before.  No
                       thanks.  I'd rather commute 60-90 minutes.  People
                       are not rats or sardines.  By the time most people hit
                       their mid 20s, have spouses, a few kids, etc, there's
                       no way 900 sqft is cutting it.  Also, we've already
                       done the school debate and your odds of getting your
                       kids into a decent school near your home are tiny in SF.
                       \_ Wow, you tihnk 900 is small?  I grew up with a
                          family of 4 and 1200 sq ft.  900 is plenty for
                          a family of 3.  For one or two people it is close
                          to perfect.
           \_ Read "Home from Nowhere."
        \_ Even with downtown businesses, people seem to be willing to make
           the tradeoff of driving relatively far to commute there from
           \_ Only because their living situation is massively subsidized.
              \_ If you actually had to pay the real costs of everything you
                 use in life you couldn't afford to be alive.  *Everything* is
                 getting subsidized in one way or another.  Let's end all those
                 evil and nasty subsidies for everything, eh?  My taxes will
                 drop to near zero and I'll happily pay directly for any of
                 the few services I still need.  You think public transit has
                 ever even come close to paying for itself?
2006/4/3-4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:42623 Activity:moderate
4/4     I've seen this before, but this is the best breakdown I've seen on the
        compressed air car. (video from the Science Channel)
        \_ damn, I was hoping to see a shot of what happens with a catastrophic
           rupture of the air cylinder.  Gasoline may take a while to burn, but
           imagine what that compressed-air bottle would do with a good hole
           in it.  Not mentioned in the video, of course.
        \_ It's 4/3 you doophus.
        \_ I got a better idea. Design a European-like city that doesn't
           have this FUCKING uncontrolled suburban McMansionized sprawl
           which require a lot of driving in the first place.
        \_ It's 4/3 you doophus.
        \_ I got a better idea. Design a walkable and bikeable European-like
           city that doesn't have this FUCKING uncontrolled suburban
           McMansionized sprawl which require a lot of driving in the
           first place. Oh well it'll never happen in America.
           \_ And it's going out of style in Europe.  Haven't you heard?  All
              the French want to move to the suburbs.
              \_ You mean there's stuff outside the Peripherique?  Inconceivable!
              \_ You mean there's stuff outside the Peripherique?
                 \_ Where do you think the cheap prostitutes hang out?
              \_ You mean all the poor, dangerous Arab suburbs around Paris?
                 No, I had not heard that.
           \_ Design?  So maybe we should have Soviet style cities built from
              the ground up by lowest bidders and force people to leave their
              current homes and jobs to move to Utopiaville?
              \_ Market forces, o rabid one: build Utopiaville and see if they
                 come. If they do, great; if not, turn it into a theme park.
                 \_ I'm not rabid.  I just think it's stupid.  Economies
                    develop.  They don't pop up artificially.  If it was such
                    a great idea and easy to implement it would've happened.
                    I think we tried the commune thing already.  It was called
                    the 60s and the hippies all turned into baby boomer wall
                    street 80s go-go executive scumbags living in the suburbs
                    in McMansions with matching Hummers and 60" plasmas.
                    People like comfort and stuff and space and mobility.
                    \_ I like comfort, space and mobility.  But for me, part
                       of comfort is being able to walk over to my friends
                       houses, or not worrying about sobering up at a bar
                       because I can walk home.  Part of mobility is being
                       able to hop on my bike in a snowstorm at 2 in the
                       morning and go to work in 5 minutes without having to
                       screw around with a window scraper and warming up a
                       car.  And as for space, I'd rather share a hundred acre
                       park with the other residents of a neighborhood than
                       have my own 1/8 acre plot to sit in by myself that I
                       have to mow and trim.  Also, the claim that suburbs just
                       "spring up" is absurd.  Take a good look at miles and
                       miles of identical houses built by the same builders
                       on the same plans, and miles and miles of box stores
                       also built by the same companies and tell me that's
                       spontaneous.  It's still planned, it's just planned
                       by a small group of corporate planners instead of a
                       small group of civil planners.
                       \_ The problem with your city utopia is that people
                          can't fuck their wives loudly and have babies.
                          And even if they start having kids in the city,
                          where would you hide when the baby starts crying?
                          Where would you keep your tools to fix your car?
                          Where would you keep your inlaws? There's no
                          backyard, garage, and an empty street where kids
                          can play safely. Your city utopia works well
                          when you're young, but as you get older you need
                          room and privacy to fuck and to have lots of kids.
                       \_ Sorry to tell you this but you're a minority.
                          95% of the people aren't like you, and do not
                          want to live in a compact city or dorm like
                          environment. To illustrate the point, why do
                          juniors, seniors, and grad students want to
                          move out of the dorm so badly? Because they're
                          fed up with living so close to other idiots
                          who party all night and listen to hip-hop music
                          3AM in the morning and smoke weeds. It's so much
                          easier to deal with 2-3 hours of traffic than to
                          deal with people. If space allows it, most people
                          in America will trade traffic for big space,
                          freedom of expression, and individuality.
                                                        -dim #1 fan
                          \_ Free expression, huh?  I guess that's why all the
                             artists, musicians, writers and scientists, and
                             most big-time entrepreneurs live in cities.
                             \_ "all the ...".  No.  I know a bunch of writers
                                and scientists.  None of them live in a large
                                city.  Ok, well, 1 writer does but she's
                                living in her mom's house at age 38.
                       \_ Let me guess, you're a liberal socialist and you
                          oppose the wonderful forces of free market?
                          \_ Nope I'm a liberal capitalist who hasn't been
                             duped by the new socialism of the suburbs.
                             Choosing between an identical McHouse with a
                             blue birdhouse mailbox and one with a brown
                             birdhouse mailbox or choosing between Target
                             and Walmart is not my idea of a free market.
                             Cities are the best place for a free market
                             to exist.  I don't see the NYSE planning to
                             move to some dipshit suburb of LA any time soon.
                             Can you name one stock exchange that's not in a
                             \_ there's a huge difference between building
                                new homes near a pre-existing job center and
                                firing up Utopiaville from scratch including
                                jobs (what jobs?!) people can walk to and
                                hoping it just magically works.
           \_ A history of the suburbs.
              "[S]prawl is not the anomalous result of American zoning laws, or
              "[S]prawl is not the anomalous result of American zoning laws,
              mortgage interest tax deduction, or cheap gas, or subsidized
              highway construction, or cultural antipathy toward cities. Nor
              is it an aberration... Sprawl is and always has been inherent
              to urbanization."
              \_ All of the examples there since the 19th century were
                 predicated on availability of public transportation.
2006/3/31-4/3 [Transportation/Car] UID:42593 Activity:high
        "The actions by Delphi [largest U.S. auto-parts maker], which filed for
        Chapter 11 last October, would eliminate 20,000 hourly jobs in the
        U.S., or about 60 percent of its total work force. It will cut another
        8,500 salaried jobs worldwide."
        \_ it's about time... I just don't see how can they justify
           hourly wages that doubles average Cal graduates?
           \_ Short answer: they can't.  The unions and auto companies painted
              themselves into a corner over the last three decades.  Why do
              you think Delphi went bankrupt, cf Airline indusry. -dans
              \_ Auto industry and Airlines industry are not meaningfully
                 comparable.  This is a good example of the "dans phenomena"
                 \_ You're wrong. -dans
                 mocked below.  They both have unions, but that's a pretty
                 obvious factor. But say the role of "globalization" has a
                 different role in the two sectors.  Maybe the steel industry
                 is a better comparison, but I haven't given it that much
                 thought. Look at this this way: it is possible in a generation
                 there will be no US car makers [like there are no US TV
                 makers left, I believe], but in a generation there clearly
                 will be domestic air carriers ... all of the names in
                 existence now might exit the market, but the sector or
                 industry wont collapse.  dans: you may want to read a book
                 on Industrial Organization.
                 \_ Economists make meaningful comparisons between the two.
                    Are they wrong because they do not devote their time to
                    studying Industrial Organization? -dans
                    \_ Cite please.
              \_ FYI.  months ago, a NPR piece did a comparison by interviewing
                 an auto part worker in China and an auto parts worker in US.
                 While US worker is clearly more productive and more
                 knowledgable, the woman in China was making $2.1 / hr,
                 the guy in US was making close to $40/hr.
                 \_ I'd rather have a more expensive car that might actually
                    work and be much less likely to get me killed.  I don't
                    care who made my napkins, tshirts, or my cheapy clock radio
                    but anything that kills people should be built by someone
                    who knows what they're doing.
                    \_ What does this comment have to do with the discussion?
                       Are you implying that Chinese workers who had proper
                       training can't build quality cars? BTW, BMW has a major
                       factory in China.
                    \_ Chinese auto parts are already made its way to USA
                       so if you really want to avoid Chinese made auto parts,
                       I would recommend you look carefully when you go to
                       Pepboys.  Further, I STRONGLY you avoid Dell LCD
                       monitors, Nikon lenses, AND write a letter to AirBus
                       to stop using Chinese parts :p
        \_ You provide no context for this.  What's your point?  Why should
           we, the denizens of the motd care?  I mean, it's interesting to me,
           but I was already aware of it. (now I'm being pedantic) -dans
           \_ First they came for the Jews but I didn't care because I wasn't
              a Jew.  Then they came for the....
              \_ I am Jewish.  If you are comparing your capacity to post
                        \_ So what?  So are many others here.  That doesn't
                           grant you any special rights or powers.  If another
                           Jew made that comment does it cancel out your
                           \_ Don't be obtuse. -dans
                 drivel on the motd with the failure of German citizenry
                 in Nazi Germany to speak out about the systematic roundup and
                 extermination of the Jews, you have a ridiculously inflated
                 sense of self-importance.  I suppose you think we shouldn't
                 clean off the handiwork of taggers either? -dans
                 \_ No, I'm comparing tech geeks saying it doesn't matter if
                    blue collar people get fucked because the geeks aren't
                    blue collar.  It's an analogy and I wasn't the op but I
                    understood what they were saying without them having to
                    tediously spell it out or quote the dictionary.
                     \_ I don't see any tech geeks on this thread saying that
                        it doesn't matter if blue collar people get fucked.  I
                        see me asking the OP to provide some discussion of why
                                \_ I didn't.  Be more explicit in the future.
                                   You're very insistent on other people
                                   leaving no ambiguity in their writing.
                                   \_ So what prompted your comparison? -dans
                        s/he feels his link is interesting as opposed to just
                        quoting from the link verbatim.  Also, the comparison
                        is grossly flawed.  Comparing the firing of unionized
                                \_ It is an analogy not a direct comparison.
                                   \_ comparison was the word you used. -dans
                        workers by a bankrupt company to the systematic genocide
                        of an entire race is stretching hyperbole to the point
                        of absurdity and pretty damned tasteless.  Furthermore,
                        the blue collar vs. white collar comparison does not
                        hold water.  You might pose it as a union vs. non-union
                                \_ Please support your statement with facts.
                                   \_ Your comparison suggests that blue
                                      collar workers and white collar workers
                                      could be meaningfully mapped onto
                                      repressed ethnic/cultural groups in Nazi
                                      Germany.  Who are the blue collar
                                      workers?  Jews?  Who are the white
                                      collar workers?  The French.  This
                                      example I just gave does not make sense
                                      for a number of reasons.  Do you have
                                      one that does? -dans
                        comparison, but that makes no sense because the
                        economics of unionized industries (e.g. autos) have
                        non-trivial differences with the economics of
                        non-unionized industries (e.g. computers). -dans
                                \_ In what ways?  Why can't or shouldn't other
                                   industries be unionized?
                                   \_ I'm not suggesting they can't or
                                      shouldn't.  The reality is that the
                                      computer industry is not unionized.
                                      Market forces are dramatically curtailed
                                      in unionized industries, which leads to
                                      artificially inflated wages.  In the
                                      short term, this benefits employees,
                                      but, in the long term, it leads to
                                      problems, cf Delphi or major airlines
                                      going bankrupt because they can't
                                      negotiate salaries on an individual
                                      basis. -dans
                 \_ I guess the lesson of this and the next post is, don't post
                    news items without adding at least a tiny bit of personal
                    opinion or question for discussion purposes.
                    \_ Exactly.  We're all smart here, most of us are tech
                       geeks.  We're all capable of reading newspapers, AP
                       wires, or configuring Google News to give us
                       information about Iran, the labor market, or whatever.
                       Posting just a link and an excerpt from the link
                       clutters up the motd without adding any value. -dans
                       \_ Ditto. Let's all help out by deleting useless
                          political drivels from now on. I'll start first
                          in about an hour and you guys do the same.
                                 -someone who REALLY hates political drivels
                                 \_ Fuck you and die.  You are starting a
                                    fight you cannot win.  Several dickheads
                                    like you have tried in the past.   Some
                                    people here *really* care about having
                                    this little text file to talk about
                                    politics in, and they have more bile
                                    and free time than you can possibly imagine.
                                     \_ You underestimate the amount of free
                                        time a grad student has. Unless you're
                                        also a grad student, I wish you luck.
                                        May the best man win. -pp, drivel hater
                                        \_ It's not you against me.  It's you
                                           against several dozen people who
                                           participate in the political threads.
                                           To illustrate my point, I have not
                                           re-posted anything on today's motd,
                                           but you falsely believe I'm the guy
                                           you're fighting with.  That's becuase
                                           there are quite a few people willing
                                           to defend a free motd.  If you wanted
                                           to be surrounded by boring tech geeks
                                           who don't give a shit about politics
                                           you should have gone to caltech or
                                           MIT.  If you wanted to be surrounded
                                           by soul-less tools who never pick up
                                           a non-technical book for fun and
                                           whose lives revolve around making
                                           money, you should have gone to
                                           Stanford.  If you wanted to be
                                           surrounded by pompous coffee shop
                                           philosophy majors who can't tell
                                           you why there are seasons or how to
                                           integrate a function, you should have
                                           gone to Harvard.  This is Berkeley,
                                           \- I dont think harvard is a very
                                              intellectual place compared to
                                              say UChicago ... it is pretty
                                              careerist/opportunistic. Maybe
                                              you mean Sarah Lawrence.
                                           and that means politics + science +
                                           engineering + culture.  If you can't
                                           appreciate how great that is, than
                                           at least have the decency to fuck
                                           \_ Your tone has the opposite effect
                                              of what you're trying to
                                              accomplish. Practice harder and
                                              try again.
                                              \_ so does yours.
                          \_ Don't get me wrong, I usually don't read or
                             participate in political threads because of the
                             drivel factor.  That said, some people like those
                             threads, and we should respect them.  What I'm
                             trying to discourage is random posting of links
                             with no explanation or context for *why* the
                             poster thinks its interesting. -dans
        \_ "[M]embers of the U.A.W. are paid $27 an hour in wages, as part of
           total compensation, including pensions, health care and other
           benefits, of $78.63 an hour, according to Delphi's bankruptcy
           filing."  Is this claim accurate?  That's about $160K per year.
           \_ That sounds plausible. -dans
           \_ That's nice work if you can get it.  Shame it's not sustainable.
           \_ That's nice work if you can get it.
           \_ It's $27/hour in wages. Typically the ratio of benefits
              to wages is about 1:1 so I would say that the company was
              paying too much in benefits. Why would you pay $50/hour in
              benefits?! I bet a lot of those employees would have
              preferred no benefits and that extra $100k/year in their
              \_ You think your techie benes are cheap?  And since these
                 guys have a good chance of getting screwed out of their
                 pensions, the above numbers are artificially high.
                 \_ $50/hour pays for an awful lot of insurance.
              \_ You're wrong.  Your fully burdened cost is usually 2x your
                 salary.  However, your fully burdened cost includes costs
                 for things like rent for your work space and any equipment
                 or machinary used to support your job function.  The cost
                 of your benefits is typically 1/4 to 1/3 of your salary.
                 \_ Exactly. 1:1. 2x your salary. If you think the benefits
                    alone should be even less then you only strengthen my
                    point that $50/hour seems extremely high.
        \_ We care why?
           \_ Because some day you too might be grievously overpaid to work
           \_ Because some day you too might be grievously overpaid working
              for outrageously uncompetitive companies managed by idiots.
              \- how often does a bankruptcy judge abrogate contracts with
                 upper management?
                 \_ this is one of the reason why I am so pissed. Upper
                    management bares no responsibility for their ill deeds.
              \_ How much are you paid?  More than the autoworkers?  Why?
                 \_ Because there are not 24000 guys in the world that does
                    what I do, while there are 24000 UAW members in Delphi
                    alone.  It is also true that my contribution to the
                    company's bottom line (in revenue dollars per hour worked)
                    is much larger than my cost to the company (in totoal
                    compensation per hour worked).
2006/3/28-29 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:42503 Activity:nil
3/28    Tonight's NOVA is about the DARPA vehicle challenge:
2006/3/21-25 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Airplane] UID:42354 Activity:nil
3/21    The Coming Normalcy by Robert Kaplan of The Atlantic Online
        Write up about Mosul.  I think he has a clue.
        \_ An article on the Stryker vehicle:
2006/3/18-20 [Transportation/Car, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:42311 Activity:nil
3/18    What is a good emacs mode for editing the motd? I'm looking for
        something that will do word wrap properly w/ M-q. I tried text-
        mode but it doesn't play nice w/ followups.
        \_ Is this the same as M-x auto-fill-mode? -dans
           \_ I think that M-q is different than M-x auto-fill-mode.
2006/3/17-20 [Transportation/Car] UID:42281 Activity:low
3/17    I've been driving for over 30 years and haven't died in car accidents.
        In fact every single driver I personally know haven't died in
        car accidents. Those who died must have done something wrong, but
        the car itself doesn't kill. Therefore, there is no correlatio
        between dying and and driving. Thanks williamc!
        \_ More importantly, people who drive die at the exactly the
           same rate as people who don't.
        \_ More importantly, people who drive die at the same rate as
           people who don't, so clearly driving doesn't cause death.
        \_ I don't get it. How is this related to williamc? who is williamc?
           \_ williamc is the nimrod who thinks that, because he's been
              typing for 20 years and hasn't gotten RSI, that people who
              get RSI are either imagining it or have diabetes.  -tom
              \_ He has also publicly stated that Americans who don't like
                 the president should quit bitching and leave the U.S.
                 Some of us take that very personally.  I think assholes
                 like that are the reason most people hate sysadmins.
              \_ I was gonna write something similar but you articulated it
                 better than I did. Thank you.
        \_ Who are you that you've been driving >30 years?  We have 47
           year olds in the CSUA?
2006/3/6-8 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42108 Activity:nil
3/6     "Diana Probe Finds No Evidence of Foul Play" (Yahoo! News)
        "French officials have said all traffic cameras on the road that
        Diana's car took, and within the tunnel, were not working the night of
        the crash.
        But Monday's Daily Express newspaper challenged that finding, saying a
        woman was caught speeding by a camera in the Pont d'Alma tunnel moments
        before Diana's crash."
        Conspiracy, conspiracy ...
        \_ Yes, this is clearly the Greys (lead by Lord Elvis for the last 752
           base 10 time cycles) in cahoots with the Bigfoot Army Of God,
           working closely with their allies the Sea Monsters in an attempt to
           distract you from their real plans...  now that you have caught on,
           The Membership Of The Grand Conspiracy shall attend to you.  Like
           all top notch arch villains, we can only be found out and stopped
           by squads of pot smoking teens driving around the country in a van
           stopping at random dark inns for no aparent reason or teams of
           animal detectives working without their human companion's knowledge.
           \_ Are you blind?  Can't you see this is the work of the Reverse
              \_ [the above poster has been found and summarily executed in
                  an impromptu Dark Ritual.  we apologise for this brief
                  moment of inconvenience for our conspiracy theorist
                  audience.  you may safely continue with your plans for
                  world domination/destruction at your own pace.]
2006/3/1-2 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:42052 Activity:nil
3/1     Soybean fueled car!
2006/3/1-2 [Transportation/Car, Science/Electric] UID:42047 Activity:low
3/1     Is it more cost effective to fill up butane/propane gas from your
        local store like Home Depot and use a gas heater to heat up your
        room? My electric bill shot up last month and I'm thinking of
        switching. I don't have central AC, unfortunately.
        \_ Should be a simple calculation.  But make sure you exhaust
           the fumes properly.
        \_ If you are a homeowner, consider installing central air. I
           should get my money back in five years. -ausman
2006/3/1-2 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:42042 Activity:high
3/1     great video about some georgia college students doing a speed
        limit experiment:
        anyone know the funky song thats playing at the end?
        \_ In Georgia? I'm surprised they weren't shot.
        \_ This is really interesting, and I get their point, but their
           execution, while effective and dramatic, was pretty dickish.
           I hope they weren't pulling that during a busy commute time.
           \_ Why?  I like the whole "civil obedience" thing.  If following
              the law is dangerous and pointless, then...?  -John
              \_ Have you ever been stuck in traffic and discovered that the
                 reason for the traffic was a "phantom" stop (i.e., the result
                 of someone ahead of you slowing slightly, and then the person
                 behind them slowing more, and so on until you finally stop)?
                 Well, it's bad enough when the flow of traffic is disturbed
                 by an expression of Chaos Theory; it's more annoying when it's
                 the the result of some people actively seeking to slow down
                 traffic to make a point. --erikred
                 \_ Yes, it is a well-documented phaenomenon of traffic
                    dynamics.  That has nothing to do with stupid or in-
                    appropriate laws, and with pointing this out.  -John
                    \_ I was attempting to evoke a visceral response to being
                       stuck in traffic and then trying to get you to compare
                       that feeling with the feeling you would have if the
                       latter were instead the case. But hey, if neither of
                       these bother you, more power to you. How's the traffic
                       in the Andes? --erikred
                       \_ It would bother me tremendously, natch.  I hate being
                          stuck in traffic, but it's kind of a NIMBY thing.
                          What they're doing is sort of snotty college-brat
                          hoserish, you are right, but the point they make is
                          very valid.  As for traffic in the Andes, look at
                          ~john/Temp/IMG_14{23,42,53}.JPG  :-)  -John
                          \_ vo ist ze lederhosen? HEIL GERMAN JOHN!!!
                          \_ So we agree... to agree. :) Nice pix. That's the
                             right setting for 4/AWD. --erikred
                             \_ always warms my  heart with joy
                                when some banker twat in one of the cheap
                                Chinese SUV knock-offs they love down here
                                cuts me off, to just think about where I took
                                ours last weekend... -John
                 \_ I think people are going too fast.  I like the current
                    speed limits.  I hate people who tailgates me with their
                    big fat truck and headlights when I am already driving
                    at the speed limit.  I will purposely slow down to
                    annoy them when they do that.    - Mr 55
                    \_ Mr 55 Guy, I have the answer for you from the cop who
                       did the driving class I was in for a ticket in response
                       to some woman who was seeking praise from the cop for
                       doing 55 in front of fast people, "It is not your job
                       to regulate the flow of traffic, it is my job.  If
                       you're going slower than the vehicles behind you, get
                       out of the way, you're more dangerous than they are".
                       She then proceeded to repeat herself and heap praise
                       upon herself for her high moral standards which
                       elicited the same response in much harsher tones until
                       he eventually beat the concept into her tiny brain.
                       \_ So what was her ticket for?
                          \_ No idea.  He was extremely no nonsense and had
                             zero bullshit tolerance so we didn't play the
                             'go around the room and say what our tickets are
                             for' game.  He gave this one girl the boot from
                             class for coming in 20 minutes late on the
                             second night (still wearing her cheer leader
                             high school outfit) and sent her packing in tears
                             to go sign up for a re-take.
                       \_ why were you in traffic school for?  - Mr 55
                          \_ tagged for running a yellow light.  In 20 years
                             I've had 4 tickets including that one, another
                             was "unsafe right turn on red" and one for
                             speeding.  72 in 65.  The last was a Berkeley cop
                             for something that took him 15 minutes to figure
                             out what to put on the ticket but came down to
                             something like, "crossing a highway against
                             oncoming traffic", that traffic being his idled
                             patrol car on the side of the road with his lights
                             out at night.
                       \_ I am not trying to regulate traffic.  I am just
                          trying to drive at a safe speed.  why should I
                          be subjected to dangerous tailgating or constant
                          lane changes.  It's not like I am driving at 45.
                          I am driving 55.  I've never been stopped by police
                          for driving too slow.  - Mr 55
                          \_ If you're driving 55 in California, you're still
                             driving too slow. The limit is 65 here and it's
                             generally agreed that if you're driving 55,
                             you're impeding traffic, particularly if you're
                             in the left lane. By the way, in Germany, you
                             will be pulled over if you get caught being a
                             left lane bandit or if you tailgate. I think
                             that's the way it should be here.
                             \_ Wrong. The speed limit for big rigs on every
                                highway in California is 55 or less. You are
                                allowed to drive 55 legally in the right hand
                                lane. Change the law if you don't like it.
                          \_ There is a place for you on the highway that
                             is safe for your driving speed, won't get you
                             heavily tail gated, won't piss off or endanger
                             anyone, including yourself and requires no lane
                             changes at all: the right lane.  Know it, drive
                             it, love it.
                             \_ First of all, that's bullshit.  Years ago,
                                when I used to be a car-driver like you,
                                I used to go slightly over the speed limit
                                (which was 65) and stay in the right lane
                                if there were two lanes or the middle lane
                                if there were three and frequent exits.  I
                                was continually tailgated, and occasionally
                                brighted out even when the left lane was totally
                                empty.  Face it. Most of the people on the
                                road shouldn't be given a license to operate
                                a fucking bigwheels, much less the 6000 pound
                                monsters they all feel the need to drive now.
                                And whatever speed any of you drive, you still
                                poison my air, and I still have to pay for
                                your oil subsudies and oil wars.  I don't even
                                remember where I was going with this rant
                                now.  FUCK BIRDS!!!  Let 'em die in windmills.
                                \_ You know, I find it kind of reassuring
                                   that you're not on the freeways anymore.
                                   \_ With 30,000 car related deaths a year,
                                      I'm glad you feel so safe.  Moron.
                                      \_ Heh, I never said I "felt safe".
                                         I said it was "reassuring".  Work
                                         on your reading skills, young
                                         neurotic padawan.
                                         \_ Oh, yeah, it was the other guy
                                            who said "we're all safer".
                                            Whatever.  Consider my crazed,
                                            free-floating rage to be directed
                                            at both of you.
                                            \_ Well, once again your reading
                                               skills have failed you.  The
                                               fact that we're safer thanks
                                               to your absence isn't equivalent
                                               to "we're safe".  Keep trying,
                                               neurotic grasshopper.
                                               \_ Fuck you.
                                                  \_ LOL  I haven't had this
                                                     much fun on motd in a
                                                     long time.  Keep it up
                                                     Mr. Wannabe Sociopath!
                                                     \_ Blow it out your ass,
                                                        wanker.  FUck you.
                                                        \_ Y0u r3wl, dud3!!1!
                                      \_ Someone is off their meds this
                                   \_ Heh, I was about to say something like
                                      that, too.  We're all safer.  Except the
                                      pedestrians he's going to hit with his
                                      bike at 30 mph because he doesn't walk
                                      his bike at cross walks as per the law.
                                      \_ Fuck you.
                                         \_ Back on the meds!  Down, boy! Down!
                                            \_ Just went on new medication this
                                               week.  So far I'm unimpressed.
                                               Fuck you.
                                               \_ Yeah, I'm not so impressed
                                                  with those meds either.
                                                  Maybe you should consider
                                                  going to a new doctor.
                    \_ And I'll support your right to do this. If you get some
                       friends to drive next to you and thereby block all
                       traffic, however, you're not just exercising your right,
                       you're blocking traffic, no matter how legally you're
                       doing it. --erikred
                       \- and dont do that in the "fast lane" if there is one.
                          \_ When I drive in the fast lane, I always make
                             sure that my car is faster then cars in the lane
                             to my right, but still, there will be these
                             people driving big trucks or other monster
                             vehicle tailgating me.  I mean if I get a good
                             chance, I will filter right and let them pass
                             but I don't feel I have an obligation to do that
                             in a hurry if I am already faster than cars in
                             the lane to my right.  I find these tailgaters
                             annoying, and I will slow down just to annoy
                             them back if they follow me too closely.  - Mr 55
                             \_ Yeah, see that puzzles me.  I'd think that,
                                if the guy behind you is engaging in stupid
                                of the guy behind you is engaging in stupid
                                dangerous behavior, the logical thing to do
                                would be to get out of his way and alleviate
                                the hazardous situation rather than trying
                                to get the 'last word' and exacerbate things.
                                That behavior would seem to contradict your
                                insistence that you drive slowly to be at a
                                "safer speed".   -mice
                                to get the 'last word' and exacerbate the
                                situation.  That behavior would seem to
                                things.  That behavior would seem to
                                contradict your insistence that you drive
                                slowly to be at a "safer speed".   -mice
                             \_ I usually move right to allow faster cars to
                                pass in the fast lane, but I'm with you-- I'd
                                rather slow down than give in to a tailgater.
                                \_ The proper thing to do is let the
                                   faster traffic pass. You could get a
                                   ticket if you don't.
                                   \- while i acknowledge there is obnoxious
                                      tailgating, you do have to pull up
                                      enough to convey you want to go faster.
                                      (which i usually do and then back off)
                                      and of course if there is a lot of
                                      traffic ahead of the car directly in
                                      front of you, you should back off.
                                   \_ Not if passing on the right is allowed,
                                      as it is on CA highways.
                                      \_ Do you know what "proper" means?
                                         \_ Sorry, wasn't clear: agreed with
                                            proper, disagreed with ticket.
                                      \_ When I retook my DMV exam recently
                                         this question was on it. If
                                         someone pulls up behind you and,
                                         say, flashes his lights then it
                                         is your job to get out of his
                                         way. It is not his responsibility
                                         to pass you on the right.
                                         \_ yea, the DMV booklet also says
                                            to maintain a certain distance
                                            while following.  I actually
                                            prefer people flash me instead
                                            of tailgating me, which is
                                            much more dangerous.
                                            \_ Two wrongs don't make a right.
                                               \_ Like I said if he flashes
                                                  me it's okay.  Sometimes
                                                  people do have emergencies.
                                                  But no, tailgating is not
                                                  acceptable because you
                                                  are endangering other
                                                  people's lives.  And yes,
                                                  two wrongs don't make a
                                                  right means you are not
                                                  supposed to tailgate even
                                                  if the old lady doesn't
                                                  move over.
                                                  \_ I'm not disputing that
                                                     tailgating is illegal
                                                     and dangerous. I am
                                                     pointing that that impeding
                                                     traffic in some silly
                                                     urge to be 'right' is
                                                     both unsafe and illegal.
                                                     \_ well, you said "if a
                                                        driver pulls up
                                                        behind you, it is your
                                                        job to get out of the
                                                        way".  This is not
                                                        true.  A prerequisite
                                                        for impeding traffic
                                                        is two or more vehicles
                                                        following you.  Blocking
                                                        one idiot trying to drive
                                                        faster than the
                                                        traffic flow doesn't
                                                        constitute impeding
                                                        traffic.  No police
                                                        will stop you for that.
                 \_ The point is they are adhereing to a law that should
                    ticket everyone not going that slowly anyway.
                 \_ We're not blocking traffic, we are
                    traffic! - Critical Mass
        \_ I would like to have seen the cops get involved.
           \_ And what could they do?  Ticket them for going the speed limit?
              I suppose there could be a ticket for disturbing the peace or
              or something like that.  Like willfully attempting to block
              \_ Obstructing traffic.  Misdemeanor in CA
                 \_ Would that stick if you were travelling exactly at the
                    maximum speed limit?  On what grounds?  As long as you
                    weren't blocking emergency vehicles...
                    \_ In CA, Obstructing Traffic requires a vehicle to be
                       stopped. Strangely enough, the proper charge might be
                       Reckless Driving. See:
        \_ 4 lane freeways are 55 there?  Yeesh.
        \_ I think they should invent new signs in some threatening color and
           put new "Zero Tolerance" speed limits on them, that are like the
           ones the cops actually enforce.  1mph over and you'll be ticketed
           \_ In Scottsdale, they have automatic speed ticketing cameras/radar
              \- as is common in europe. will be interesting to see if they
                 survive giving tickets to cops and judges and pols.
                 \_ Except for in the UK (where they're insane), most Euro
                    cameras have tolerance limits, and are in areas where
                    traffic is dangerous and speeding is dangerous.  Except
                    in some places like NL where they measure over distance.
                    This is pointless and lame.  -John
                        \_ I always know when we hit a camera zone in Holland
                           when my relatives are driving me somewhere because
                           for no reason they suddenly slow down a lot, and
                           then a little later speed up ...
                 \_ Are you kidding?  They'll be 'taken care of'.
                    \_ I kind of doubt that. The red light cameras in SF
                       and the speed cameras in DC are unmolested.
                       \_ You misunderstand.  PP was refering to the practice
                          of 'ticket-fixing'.
                \_ In Taiwan, they have a device that will warn you whenever
                   you approach places where there are speed ticketing
                   cameras or radars.
                \_ Russia: get jailed for having an official crash into YOU. -oj
                   \_ America: apologize when an official shoots YOU!
        \_ They should learn to spell.
2006/2/27-3/1 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:42020 Activity:moderate
2/27    Dutch (whoo hoo) design of bus is 50% more efficient and 90%
        quieter than a conventional diesel bus, no fuel cell needed. -eric
        \_ Dutch were the first to start massive slave trade!!! Not
                 \- i think that is sort of an  arbitrary call.
           only that, they committed mass murder and other cruelties.
           FUCK THEM! FUCK THEM ALL!!!
                \_ What, in the 17th century? Don't complain when Muslims
                   bitch about the Crusades either then.
           \_ I LOVE GOLD!!!
        \_ New... in 2003.
           \_ DOH! Didn't notice.  Hmmm wonder what happened to it? ... Ah
     -- wow 14 MPG for a bus, vs 3.5 MPG for a
              conventional US bus.  Looks like the system increases the
              price by about $25,000 per bus, maybe that is slowing adoption.
              \_ Probably.  From what I read, buses are a loss in many US
                 cities in terms of both dollars/rider AND gas/pollution per
                 rider mile.  (Due to mostly empty buses).  In places where
                 that's the case, a more expensive, more efficient bus
                 probably isn't much of a sale.
              \_ Probably.  From what I read, buses are a loss in many US cities
                 in terms of both dollars/rider AND gas/pollution per rider
                 mile.  (Due to mostly empty buses).  In places where that's the
                 case, a more expensive, more efficient bus probably isn't much
                 of a sale.
              \_ At current prices you'd be saving more than 40 cents/mile, so
                 it wouldn't take very long to recoup a capital investment of
                 $25K for a bus that's operating full-time. Often there are
                 other costs of new technology (shorter life, higher repair
                 costs) as well, though, and that could be the case here.
                 \_ Well according to some of the information, some of the
                    costs would actually be lower, because there are fewer
                    moving parts (no transmission) and the diesel engine
                    is smaller and can always work at the optimum range.
                    However, the question mark is the battery pack.  But it
                    appears that there are a lot of advances to be made in
                    battery pack design in the next 5-10 years.
                 \_ diesel @ $2.50/gallon
                    bus averages 15 miles/hour, 10 hours a day
                    = 150 miles/day
                    150 miles/day / (1 gallon / 3.5 miles) = 43 gallons/day
                    assume the bus runs 80% of the year (maintenance, etc)
                    = 292 days
                    43 gallons/day * 292 days = 12500 gallons * $2.50/gallon
                    = $30,000/year in fuel
                    [(3.5 MPG) / (14 MPG)] * $30,000 = $7500.
                    Savings of $22,500 / year
        \_ Interesting.  It's actually quite similar to the design of a diesel
           locomotive, although it brings the extra complication of a battery.
2006/2/21-23 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign] UID:41940 Activity:kinda low
2/21    Go to Google News and put in "Ferrari" + "Malibu"
        Then look at these:
        \_ I like the part where it says the driver ran away (passenger stayed)
           and the car may have been registered in a foreign country.
           Passenger identified as "Stefan Erikssen, of Bel-Air", and
           investigators believe the driver was alone and was racing ...
        \_ Wow, lucky guys.
        \_ Money quote: '"You pay a million bucks for a car, you expect
           safety," Brooks said.'
           \_ Did Brooks mean he thinks the two survived because of the $1M
              car's safety features rather than pure luck?
           \_ Anyone would be stupid to think that they survived because of
              the $1M car's safety features rather than pure luck.
              \_ It certainly looks like the safety features worked well.
        \_ I like how the news video starts with "Fatal Crash" in the bottom
           info bar and as it progresses and they say "from the air it didn't
           look like anyone could have survived that, but now it appears both
           occupants did" and the infobar changes to "Malibu Crash" or something
           like that.  Heh.
           occupants did" and the infobar changes to "Malibu Crash" or some-
           thing like that.  Heh.
2006/2/17-20 [Transportation/Car] UID:41900 Activity:high
2/17    This week's Powerball is $365M.  Is there a CSUA Powerball group-buy?
        \_ Why, can't CSUA members do math?
           \_ Dang, you took my joke.
              \_ It depends on the value you put on different amounts of
                 money.  What is $1M worth to you relative to $1?  1Mx?
                 More?  Less?
                 \_ Agreed.  This is the same reason why people want to buy
                    insurance even though they already know the cost is higher
                    than the expected value of the return.
                    \_ Actually most people are forced to have insurance.  CA
                       requires car insurance.  My bank requires me to have
                       home insurance.  My company is required to provide me
                       with health insurnace, etc.
                       \_ True to some extent.  CA only requires liability car
                          insurance.  You can work as a contractor to get
                          higher wage and no health insurance.  I don't know of
                          anything that requires life insurance, umbrella
                          insurance, or vacation travel insurance.
                          \_ Even though sometimes the math vs the odds don't
                             work out in your favor on insurance, the real
                             world cost of replacing the item if you're
                             unlucky is too high to risk not paying for the
                             insurance which you can actually afford.  If the
                             odds of my house being destroyed by some event
                             were near zero but the insurance against that
                             event was $10/year, I'd still pay the $10 to
                             be protected against an oddball event because the
                             $10 is nothing but I'd really really really miss
                             my house if it got hit by a meteor, for example.
                             OTOH, as an insurance company, it is to their
                             benefit to allow cheap but not statistically
                             useful insurance payments because they can play
                             the odds and come out ahead anyway even if the
                             event happens, forcing the unlikely payout.  An
                             individual can't afford to lose the meteor
                             strike bet but can afford to buy the insurance.
                             (No I don't have meteor insurance).  My house is
                             in a "once per hundred year flood zone" which is
                             their way of saying I shouldn't ever get flooded
                             and they won't sell me flood insurance, but if it
                             was available and $10 a year I'd take it since
                             Shit Happens and there is a stream/river 25 yards
                             \_ Flood insurance wouldn't be $10/year, it
                                would be approximately ((replacement cost
                                of house)-(value of having your capital
                                over time)/100)+(profit margin).  That is
                                likely to work out to several hundred dollars
                                a year at least.  They don't offer the
                                insurance because no one would buy it at
                                that cost; if they could profitably offer
                                it for $10/year, they would.  -tom
                             \_ Living in a 1/100 per year flood zone means
                                that there is about a 26% chance (.99^30)
                                that it will flood before the house is even
                                paid off. -ausman
                                \_ "Once per hundred year flood zone" is
                                   insurance jargon for "it would take an
                                   act of god to flood this place since
                                   there's no place for a flood to come
                                   from".  They don't literally mean it
                                   floods every 100 years.  It hasn't flooded
                                   in the known history of this region.  So,
                                   they actually could make a profit at $10/
                                   year but things go against them because
                                   if there is an act of god, they're stuck
                                   covering it for a lousy 10 bucks.  The
                                   profit margin is too low to take the risk,
                                   even though the risk is *essentially* zero,
                                   it isn't truly zero.  Anyway, I've got a
                                   bucket and know how to swim if it goes
                                   that way.  :-)
                                   \_ You have no idea what you're talking
                                      about.  The entire insurance business
                                      is built on amortizing costs over
                                      time and across their entire customer
                                      base.  They are *very good* at
                                      computing the probabilities of claims
                                      against their policies and the
                                      cost/benefits thereof.
                                      \_ Of course I don't.  I'm only telling
                                         you what my insurance guy told me,
                                         but I'm sure you're smarter than he
                                         is and know exactly what the flood
                                         conditions are in my area.  YOU ARE
                                         PERFECT!  HOW CAN I BE YOU?!
                                         \_ 100-year floodplains are set
                                            by FEMA engineers based on
                                            historical and archaeological
                                            data, not by the insurance
                                            companies.  Is your insurance
                                            guy a water systems engineer?
                                            \_ He doesn't have to be.  Why
                                               would you think that?  Are
                                               the FEMA records top secret?
                                               I still want to always be
                                               right like you no matter how
                                               trivial and meaningless the
                                               point.  How can I achieve your
                                               absolute level of perfection?
                                               You have never been wrong about
                                               anything.  I admire that.
                                               \_ If the FEMA records say
                                                  you're in a 100-year flood
                                                  zone, that means they
                                                  believe there's about a 1%
                                                  chance per year that your
                                                  house will be flooded.
                                                  It's quite simple.  And
                                                  your entire argument that
                                                  you've spent 25-30 lines
                                                  describing is completely
                                                  meaningless as long as
                                                  that is true.  So why don't
                                                  you admit *you* are wrong
                                                  instead of being both
                                                  idiotic and smug?  -tom
                                                  \_ Why not just admit you're
                                      \_ Tom, are you a Bayesian or a
                                \_ The Russian River area has had two "100
                                   year" floods in the last decade. -ausman
                 \_ Don't forget tax.
                 \_ Well, I do value $1 I have more that $1M I'll never
        \_ can californians play? how?
           \_ I assume there would be CSUAers in Powerball states.
        \_ How do you prevent getting screwed in a group buy?
           \- [The state lottery is] a public subsidy of intelligence
              [since] it yields public income that is calculated to
              lighten the tax burden of us prudent abstainers at the
              expense of the benighted masses of wishful thinkers.
              --WVO Quine
2006/2/13-15 [Transportation/Car] UID:41822 Activity:nil
2/13    How much does it typically cost for emergency medical transportation,
        ie. to fly an injured person from, say, China, back to the US?  I'm
        shopping for travel insurance.  Access America, which is recommended by
        AAA, provides coverage for $300K; while Travelex, which used to be
        recommended by AAA 3yrs ago, provides coverage for only $25k.  It's a
        12x difference.  I'm just trying to get a ballpark number to see what
        dollar range at least makes sense.  Thanks.
2006/2/12-15 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:41807 Activity:nil
2/12    How the state-backed Chinese car manufacturers copy the western designs
        for free:,,22750-2012852,00.html
        \_ My question is, when is GM gonna bring the Matiz home?
           \_ They seem to be busy bringing more giant trucks:
              \_ Man, the car that really throws me is the cadillac
                 pickup.  I'm mean, seriously, WTF?
                 \_ Too much money plus the lack of good state.
                 \_ There's an article in the newspapers this weekend
                    about how middleclass Indian families in India
                    just go to the local village carpenter with an
                    IKEA catalog in hand and point out what they want built.
                    \_ I don't see anything wrong with that, except the Indians
                       showing lack of taste.  If I could get the local village
                       carpenter to build me anything for a buck or two, it
                       wouldn't be Ikea's crap.
                    \_ are these those new ikea VR catalogs?
                       \- this is true with jewelry too ... "the family
                          jeweler" has asked my mother to save catelogs for
                          him. although when safeway etc makes generic
                          versions of oreo etc arent they becailly doing the
                          same thing? i was surprised to see a clones of
                          ODWALLA SUPERFOOD by one of the other boutique
                          juice companies ... i thought that would have been
                          \_ Re safeway generics (and drug store brands):
                             many are manufactured by the same parent co
                             on behalf of the supermarket or drug store.
                             A few are manufactured by 3d parties under
                             the FDA generic license.
                             Re Odwalla: If the formula for superfood is
                             protected, it is either as a trade secret or
                             a patent. I do not think that it is possible
                             to patent the recipe for a complex food stuff
                             such as superfood (as opposed to say the
                             formula for coke) b/c the claims would be too
                             broad (but I will ask my Patents prof today).
                             If the protection is under trade secret, in
                             a likelihood Odwalla cannot prove misapprop-
                             \_ Chemical formulas fall under their own section
                                of patent law.  Usually a tiny change in the
                                formula is enough to avoid a patent.
2006/2/9-11 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:41789 Activity:nil
        Urban sprawl is universal and not an American phenomenon.
        \_ The auto has turned it into a major menace though.
           First world cities built post-automobile are all
           spread out much more than the older cities, sometimes
           by a whole order of magnitude more.
2006/2/9-11 [Transportation/Car] UID:41786 Activity:nil
2/9     Rejected taglines for the recently released Harrison Ford vehicle,
        \_ Zzzzzzzz
        \_ Do the young generation of engineers in their 20s still know what
           "Abort, Retry, Fail" refers to?
           \_ Of course. It's from Alpha Centauri, right? "If you see this
              message, always choose 'Retry'." -20something
           \_ FC:<enter>
              \_ Fred Cohen?
           \_ DOS was still common 11 years ago.
2006/2/7-9 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:41753 Activity:high
2/7     Wanna get killed in a Smart car? It's easy.
        \_ How much better do you think a "normal" car would have done?
        \_ That looks like quite impressive crash performance for a
           collision with a concrete wall at 70mph.  -tom
           \_ Sure the frame is alright, but what about the crash dummy?
              How good the car looks after a crash has no bearing on how
              well the passengers
              \_ There wasn't a crash dummy, but I can't imagine that any
                 car would perform significantly better than the Smart car
                 does in that demonstration.  And of *course* how well the
                 frame looks has a bearing on how the passengers do; do I
                 need to put the Mini vs. F150 page in the MOTD again? -tom
                 \_ Mini vs F150
                    "Most accidents involve only one car?"  Does he mean
                    "fatal accidents?" or "injury accidents" or what?
                    I've been run into like 3 times, but all were pretty
                    slow.  I do agree that head-on collisons are a stupid
                    thing to worry about.  Rear-ending is more common and
                    T-bones are more dangerous.
        \_ You mean 'wanna LIVE in a Smart car? It's easy."? (just looking at
           the video)
        \_ Wanna get killed in any other car? It's also very easy ..
        \_ If the comparison thru 70mph head-on collision is "Smart car hitting
           massive object" vs. "Civic hitting massive object", yes Smart car
           will do better.  Likewise, if the comparison is "Smart car hitting
           Crown Victoria" vs. "Civic hitting Crown Victoria", again Smart car
           will do better.  However, in the latter case the Crown Victoria will
           survive better than both the Smart car and the Civic because of it
           mass.  So, in which of the three cars do you want to be during a
           head-on collision with another car?
           \_ Mass translates into kinetic energy.  I think the premise that
              a vehicle with higher kinetic energy is more likely to be
              safe in a collision is unfounded.   -tom
              \_ KE needs to be considered with P
                 \_ Yes, I'm sure it will be comforting when your large car
                    decides to do work on your skull.  -tom
                    \_ In a head-on, which would you rather be in:
                       Locomotive vs. 18 wheeler:
                       18 Wheeler vs. Hummer:
                       Hummer vs Civic:
                       Civic vs. RIDE BIKE!:
                       RIDE BIKE! vs sneakers:
                       Locomotive vs sneakers:
                       Taking all of 2 seconds to think about this should make
                       it clear that mass of the vehicle will keep the person
                       in the larger vehicle safer overall than the person in
                       the smaller vehicle.  Obviously not being in a wreck at
                       all is best case but we can't always avoid a collision.
                       \_ The head-on collision without any angular vectors
                          is simply not very common.  In the real world, lots
                          of different kinds of fatal accidents happen,
                          and most of them are not head-on, and those
                          that are classified as head-on are mostly not
                          pure-headon-inelastic-collision.  Heck, the Smart
                          car may wind up becoming a ramp for your Crown
                          Victoria.    -tom
                          \_ Uhm, so what?  Take any angle you want.  Which
                             transport would you rather be in in any of the
                             above situations?
                             \_ There are plenty of accidents where it is
                                better to be in a smaller car.  That's why
                                big cars have just as many fatalities.  -tom
                                \_ DUCK!  "I can name that accident in 3
                                   collisions!"  "Tom, name that accident!"
                        \_ This is not always true.  Many big boaty cars of
                           1970s and 1980s were very unsafe because they did
                           not have collapsing steering columns.  In an
                           not have collapsing steering column.  In an accident
                           the steering column would pretty much squash your
                           chest and/or head.  If the hummer had a steering
                           column like that, I'd take my chances in the civic.
                           \_ This isn't the 1970s and 1980s.  How many of
                              those cars are still on the road?
                           \_ Then you'll like the massive locomotive, which
                              does not have a steering column.
                           \_ Then you'll like a locomotive, which does not
                              have a steering column.
                              \_ Unless it's diesel or steam, in which case
                                 you'll probably be smooshed in 50 million
                                 pounds of steel AND doused with hot burning
                                 shit, or electric, which will tangle you up
                                 in high tension wires!  -John
                                 \_ More likely the little car would get
                                    smashed aside with everyone killed by the
                                    loco's cow fender on the front.  A bad day
                                    for the loco engineer but he's going home
                                    to his family.  The civic passengers are
                                    dead at any reasonable rate of speed.
                                    \_ Ah, but a gigantic blob of gore may
                                       fly in a spectacular arc towards the
                                       driver's cabin of the locomotive and
                                       spatter the driver with bits of bone
                                       and brain, thereby inflicting traumatic
                                       dry cleaning bills.  -John
                                       \_ Yeah, that counts as a bad day for
                                          the engineer, but the dry cleaning
                                          bills should be picked up by the
                                          company if he was wearing the
                                          company uniform.  Or maybe the gore
                                          will just splatter across the
                                          wind shield.  Wind shield fluid is
                                          pretty cheap.
                                          \_ What if it hits him in the eye,
                                             and it just happens to be a bit
                                             of stomach lining, and the prior
                                             owner just had a really spicy
                                             Mexican meal?  -John
                       \_ That might work if you are in a demolition derby but
                          in the real world that KE is often gonna end up
                          smashing into some largish inanimate object before
                          too long. Or a pileup of other cars. At which
                          point the safety engineering becomes more important
                          than the mass. What percentage of crashes are head
                          on collisions where the cars don't deflect off in
                          some way? I bet it's not that high.
                          \_ What percentage of non-headons result in death or
                             life long injury?  Headons and side impacts to
                             where someone is sitting are the 2 killers.
                             Getting rear ended at most speeds means you get
                             some painful soft tissue damage and some cash.
                             My 4 door sedan with steel bars in the side
                             panels bounced an SUV coming in at a 45` angle at
                             about 20-25 mph.  They bought me a new door.  No
                             biggie.  My civic would have been totalled.  (Yes,
                             I owned a civic too).  I rear ended another large
                             vehicle (sigh) at about 15 with the sedan.  We
                             both drove home with minimal damage.  The civic
                             got caught in a 4 car (car #3) and pretzeled at
                             about 25mph and the driver (not me) was injured.
                             Maybe my experience runs counter to the odds but
                             I don't think so.  I'll stick with my big
                             vehicles for safety, thanks.
                             \_ How old was the Civic? The door strength I
                                think isn't necessarily tied to the overall
                                vehicle mass. Maybe that Civic just wasn't
                                very safe regardless. A lot of older small
                                cars were, that didn't necessarily have to
                                be (probably goes along with small cars
                                generally also being cheap cars). Shrug.
                                \_ Civic was 2000.  True that putting steel
                                   bars inside a puff box only means the
                                   passengers get steel bars in their chests.
                                   The rest of the car has to be big enough
                                   and structurally sound enough to take that
                                   hit and spread the force without smashing
                                   a passenger.  All else being equal, the
                                   bigger vehicle is going to take a hit better
                                   than a smaller one.  Get Thee To Ye Ol'
                                   Locomotive, Sir!
        \_ Hmm, why did the narrator in this British video use mph instead of
           km/h?  --- yuen
           \_ Um, perhaps the narrator is British, but the video is not?
              \_ But the license plate of the Smart car is UK format.  Okay
                 maybe it's a British narrator reporting a UK crash test on an
                 American channel.  I don't remember which other countries
                 still use the imperial system and have English TV.  --- yuen
                 \_ The Brits use a mix of imperial and metric units. Speeds,
                    at least automotive speeds, are generally given in units
                    of mph. -gm
                    \_ Um, freeway signs are metric in UK.  Are you talking
                       racing world?  Or are you talking out of your ass?
                       \_ I admit I haven't been to the UK in a few years,
                          but speed limit signs, at least, were definitely in
                          mph; I think distance signs were as well, but I don't
                          recall exactly. The UK Metric Association agrees:
                          If you have a more definitive souce, I'd be happy
                          to see it. -gm
                          \_ Whoa, I'm smoking the crack.. Sorry.
                             Now I'm wondering where I went...
                        \_ Brits talk in miles quite often.  Officially they
                           use km on road signs.  -John
        \_ Another point that always gets left out of the Mass vs. Safety debate
           is the maneuverability of the smaller car.  If only 3/4 of potential
           accidents are realized in a more maneuverable vehicle, that's a
           pretty big safety win.  SUV == passive safety.
           \_ There's no way a smaller car is going to be able to avoid 25%
              of their wrecks.  Most wrecks either come out of nowhere or
              you have no place to escape to.  And frankly, most people don't
              know how to drive their car anyway and couldn't avoid a wreck
              under optimal conditions.  We call those "fender benders" and
              they're incredibly common.
              \_ Or worse, some drivers try to maneuver their cars to avoid a
                 wreck when they shouldn't (e.g. speed too high, no room on the
                 side), and end up with a bigger wreck like rollover or head-on
                 100+mph collision with opposite traffic, killing others with
                 their stupidity.
                 \_ and let us note, bigger cars are more likely to roll...
                    \_ Huh?  A Sienna is less likely to roll than a 2-dr RAV4.
                       I've driven both, although not actually encoutering any
                       near-rollover conditions.
                       I've driven both, and the Sienna rolls less during fast
                       turns.  I've not actually encoutered any near-rollover
                       situations though.
                       \_ No facts please.
        \_ URL to mroe info on smart car?
2006/1/26-29 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:41557 Activity:high
1/26    Our jobs are getting outsourced because we're unpatriotic and
        buy foreign goods. Try something new. By an American vehicle -
        chances are you'll be pleasantly surprised:
        \_ Real patriots don't drive cars.
        \_ I bought an American vehicle but it had nothing to do with
           politics.  I drove everything I was even remotely interested in
           in the 20-30k range from all makers and got an excellent price.
           If American makers want more sales they need to improve quality
           and features without increasing prices.  Ford only had half the
           right idea announce on Monday: they're over staffed and dumping
           1/4 of their work force.  I didn't see anything about fixing the
           core problem which is that their car quality just sucks or I
           would've bought some stock for a long term hold.  GM got decent
           customer satisfaction/quality ratings on recent surveys but didn't
           market that fact at all.  Companies run by stupid people are just
           doomed in the long run.
           \_ Actually, they know exactly why their quality sucks.  Because
              they spend something like $6k/car on worker benefits.  That's
              an extra $5k/car (!!) that their competition can spend on quality
              parts and assurance.
              \_ I'm calling bullshit on you.
              \_ I call bullshit on you.  Give some evidence.
              \_ I'm sure Ford knows.  My disappointment is that they didn't
                 announce a plan to do anything about it.  I used to own one.
                 It was fun but built like shit and their service centers
                 sucked too.
              \_ It's not $6K. It's about $3K. Note that German workers
                 get paid still higher though. I'd blame the unions.
        \_ Eh, I'm being patriotic and I buy Japanese cars. But then
           again I'm Japanese. I win.
        \_ "But I think the real fault lies with the U.S. consumer. First we
           wanted sport-utility vehicles, now we don't."  How dare we have
           fads!  For shame!
        \_ Someone should inform this guy that American cars are built by
           Mexicans, while Japanese cars are being built by Americans.
           \_ True, and that's why Nissan/Infiniti ratings are so low.
              If you buy a car built in Japan it's going to be better
              and I'm not sure why that is.
              \_ I think that Nissan/Infiniti's problems have more to
                 do w/ the company and less to do w/ US manufacturing.
                 Toyota builds many Camry's and Corrola's in the US
                 and there are no quality problems w/ either. Same w/
                 The problem faced by US automakers is that they do
                 not spend enough time time on the details for most
                 cars (cf. trucks where US trucks are considered very
                 cars (cf. trucks where US trucks are considered
                 \_ Perhaps, but Nissan's rating were higher when they
                    were Japan-built.
                 \_ Perhaps, but Nissan's ratings were higher when they
                    were Japan-built. BMW's ratings are higher for their
                    German-(or South African)-built cars. I have a
                    friend who specifically sought out a Japanese-built
                    Camry (you can tell by VIN). Is it better? I dunno,
                    but I'd bet it is if I had to guess.
                    \_ I owned a NUMI built Corrola for nearly 8 years
                       and the car was rock solid, never had any issues.
                       My brother has a Japan built Corrola now and it
                       equally reliable. Same w/ my Indiana built Outback.
                       I've owned American for years and the difference
                       btwn Japanese and American cars is the attention
                       to detail in the design rather than the location
                       of manufacture. Japanese manufacturers seem to
                       take more time to "debug" their cars. [ I under-
                       stand that my experience is not a statistically
                       significant sample ]
        \_ US car manufacturers do have at least some fairly competitive
           vehicles in their lineups. However, most of them are
           underrated in consumers' minds. (I for one think Ford's
           lineup is competitive except for Lincoln which needs an
           overhaul like the one given to Cadillac).  However, you
           can't blame consumers alone for this. No one likes gambling
           with a $15K-$30K purchasing decision. Snob appeal also
           plays a role. Most US brands are now considered inferior to
           the big three Japanese companies and I suppose there are
           some people who wouldn't want to drive an American car just
           because of that. I would blame again the manufacturers for
           this. Having even one gimmick in a product lineup can do
           damage to the whole brand.  Offering cutthroat discounts at
           the time when US media is mostly filled with negative news
           about Ford and GM probably doesn't help much to brand's
           image either.  Neither it will help immediately if a brand
           like Ford came up with clear winners in all cathegories as
           it takes some time to build confidence among the consumers.
        \_ I'm from Hong Kong and I bought three American cars before I bought
           my first foreign one: Ford (sucks), Jeep (sucks), Jeep (okay),
           Toyota (excellent).
           \_ I totalled my Camry,had it repaired, been running great
              for 2 years since.  (there... i bet i just jinxed it)
2006/1/26-27 [Transportation/Car] UID:41540 Activity:nil
1/26    Car Talk claims the Acetone gas milage rumors are a crock
2006/1/23-25 [Transportation/Car] UID:41485 Activity:nil
1/23    How not to free your car from the mud
        \_ What an asshole!  He'd deserve life in prison if he had killed
           \_ Long's Notes:
              23. Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education,
              or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin; the victim can't
              help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal
              capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and
              execution is carried out automatically and without pity.
        \_ The tone of this article is great.  "Sometimes becoming airborne"
2006/1/21-24 [Transportation/Car, Consumer/CellPhone] UID:41472 Activity:nil
1/21    Cell phone+car accidents, a whole lot of 'em
        \_ I saw a lecture about this at CNS 2004.  Essentially, tuning the
           radio while driving, talking on the cell phone while driving, and
           driving while mildly intoxicated all have similar cognitive
           impairment effects.  This is true regardless of whether the
           cell phone is "hands-free" or not.  It's a matter of attentional
           capacity being divided.  Iirc, someone else did a study that showed
           sleep deprivation has similar effects, as well.
           \_ I hate cell phone drivers but at least with a phone, the
              distraction stops once they hang up (if they do).  If you're
              drunk when you turn the key, you'll still be drunk when you
              get home (or to the hospital).
              \_ Drivers kill with cellphones, and people blame the phones.
                 They kill with alcohol, and people blame the alcohol.  They
                 kill while eating, and people blame the food.  They kill when
                 they have less than 20/20 vision, and they blame the vision.
                 When are people going to realize what the common denominator
                 here is?  It's just not natural for all people of all ages
                 to have to operate a massive, dangerous machine just to
                 take part in society.  Stop blaming the booze, the phones,
                 the food, and old people for being old, and go to the root
                 of the problem.
                 \_ Yah, seriously -- we should be killing the people.  I mean,
                    honestly, what kind of careless twat drives 70mph on the
                    freeway then cries and moans about the cell phone?  It's
                    all about the selfish selfcentered careless shitheads, and
                    their absurdly litiginous victims.
2006/1/20-23 [Transportation/Car] UID:41460 Activity:kinda low
1/20    "Lexus will offer a feature that lets the LS [460] parallel-park
        itself without the driver touching the steering wheel. Sales start
        in the fall."  Nifty.  How will liability work with something like
        \_ Same way it does if you crash while on cruise control.  -tom
           \_ Since you're not a lawyer I'd suggest you keep your trap shut.
              Product defect liability is a complex subject.
              \_ Since I don't see a name or a TRO attached to your post, I'm
                 guessing you're just a tom-hating punk.
                 \_ My first post in this thread: Welcome to the motd where
                    you don't have to be a professional to comment on legal,
                    medical, or financial matters and where it is equally
                    acceptable to point out when someone else is full of shit
                    because they lack the professional knowledge required to
                    intelligently comment on a complex issue.
           \_ You still steer in cruise control.
              \_ And you're still responsible for not running into the
                 back of the car in front of you.  -tom
                 \_ Uhm, no tom. If there was an actual defect to the
                    cruise control not being able to disengage, then
                    the liability becomes a whole lot more complex.
                    \_ You would have a point, if the original poster
                       were concerned about not being able to disengage the
                       automatic parallel-parking system.  Presumably that
                       will not be difficult.  Therefore, presumably you
                       will still be responsible for disengaging it (stepping
                       on the brake) if necessary.  -tom
        \_ Eight-speed auto?  Might as well use a CVT.
        \_ With the zero-turning-radius Jeep Hurricane, you don't need a
           computer to parallel-park.
        \_ Can it park into very tight space?  If so, is there a reverse mode
           to help dumb drivers pull the car out of the space afterwards?
2006/1/17-18 [Transportation/Car] UID:41409 Activity:high
1/17    I noticed some gas smell the other day on the side of my house
        where the gas meter is, when the gas heater was running inside.
        Is that normal or should I call PG&E or something?
        \_ it's not normal. you have a gas leak. call 'em ASAP.
           \_ Agreed.  Bad time to stop for a quick fag.
           \_ And turn off the gas heater NOW!  And don't turn on or off any
              electric switches near the gas smell, including phones.
        \_ call the 24 hour emergency line and they'll come out asap.
        \_ dang, thanks guys... this was outside the house btw
           \_ If you're smelling gas outside the house, odds are the leak is
              really bad.
              \_ by now it is either fixed or we should plan a funeral.
                 \_ Don't worry.  It only takes an Ionic Breeze 30 minutes to
                    clear up an outdoor gas leak. :-)
                    \_ Is the IB gas powered?  That would be very economical
                       in this situation. :-)
        \_ So, to update all my worried anonymous friends: I called PG&E and
           the nice man came and sprayed soap solution on all the pipes to look
           for bubbles from gas. It was raining by then and dark. He couldn't
           seem to find anything. I couldn't smell it either for a while but
           then I could again. At some point he claimed to find a tiny leak
           but then we were talking and eventually he just left saying call
           them back some other time when it's not raining if I still have a
           problem. The meters didn't seem to move while we were there. But
           I noticed the smell more when the furnace was running anyway.
           Maybe they like that I'm wasting more expensive gas. The End.
            \_ Where do you live samli? If you live in certain places like
               Foster City, Hayward, or elsewhere that used to be a landfill
               (they used to be literally a dump) then methane gas released
               from underground is not unusual.
               \_ Well samli, that could be. There is also a little sewer
                  access hole thingie near there that could cause it. I
                  hope so. It didn't seem like it though and natural gas
                  has a pretty specific odor.
           \_ Not quite the end.  It sounds like you're still at serious risk
              of blowing up.
              \_ Yeah, well it's the end of this episode. I also posted about
                 the bomb-threat at my building. My odds of getting blown up
                 are steadily increasing. It must be a conspiracy.
2006/1/15-17 [Transportation/Car] UID:41380 Activity:low
1/15    If lane splitting is legal, then can I drive a theoretically
        little car that has the width of 1/3 of a car and split lane
        in between two other [little] cars? How about riding a bicycle
        in between cars during a completely halted traffic? I know
        that this is dangerous and foolish, I just want to know the
        legality of doing so.
        \_ As i understand the law, yes you can.  I also don't see why the
           bicycle one is foolish, except that you won't be able to keep
           up if taffic starts moving.
           \_ Lanesplitting is legal but many motorcyclists are partially in
              two lanes, which is not, or they shuttle between two lanes
              without signaling when they are riding between two columns of
              cars.  It cyclists who ignore or are unaware of the traffic
              laws, not the motorcyclists.
        \_ it is also acceptable to pass on the right if the lane is wide
2006/1/13-17 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:41368 Activity:high
1/13    Live105 DJ says he'd like to see motorists stuck in traffic open
        their doors against motorcylclists:
        Yamaha not amused:
        UPDATE: Live105 offers apology:
        Note: DJ's apology kinda weak.
        \_ Take away the vehicles and make it a straight fight, and I'd put
           money on the bikers over the car drivers.  Especially after the
           second time this happens and all the bikers start carrying
           guns and caltrops.  I ride a bicycle, not a motorcycle, but if
           someone does some shit like this to me, they'd better kill
           me, or the blood on the street will be theirs.
           \_ if you obey the traffic laws you won't be hurt
              if you dont you deserve to get run over
              \_ Your first statement is so patently false to anyone who's
                 ever ridden anywhere but a few select cities as to be
                 not worth responding to.  I obey traffic laws, and I've
                 never been hurt or had a close call, but I've seen cars
                 do things that would have killed me if I had simply obeyed the
                 law and not gone the extra step of assuming that all you
                 car driving motherfuckers will totally ignore it, stopping.
                 at green lights to look, etc.  You all think your so tough
                 when you're surrounded by a 3000 pound murder weapon, but
                 you have to get out sooner or later and then you're not so
                 at green lights to look, etc.
                 \_ So all bicyclists are ranting psychopaths who think all
                    car drivers are inconsiderate potential murderers?  -John
                    \_ I speak only for myself.
                       \_ So you think all car drivers are inconsiderate
                          potential murderers?  -John
                          \_ They're not all inconsiderate, no, but they are
                             all potential murderers.  Cars kill more Americans
                             in a year than the whole vietnam war did.  You
                             can call all of these "accidents", but as some one
                             who has chosen not to partake in car culture, I
                             see it as at least manslaughter, if not outright
                             murder, and I see the whole system as being guilty.
                             What's the fine for blasting through a crosswalk
                             and ignoring pedestrians if you don't actually
                             kill them?  In my state it's a hundred bucks.
                             A HUNDRED BUCKS!!  Now, what would the penalty
                             be for firing your gun into someones home, but
                             missing them?  "But officer, I was aiming for that
                             target on my lawn!"  You better believe it wouldn't
                             be a hundred dollar fine, even if it was a total
                             accident.  Everyone, even the NRA, would agree
                             that gun users should be forced to show a certain
                             degree of responsibility, because if they don't,
                             people are going to die.  But in America we have
                             decided that car drivers do not have to show that
                             level of responsibility, because our whole system
                             is based on allowing every drooling moron in the
                             country to be able to drive any time any any place
                             they want, and that would never work if they had
                             to actually be responsible about it.  And yes,
                             I'm obviously a ranting psychopath.
                             \_ Uhm, you're a moron. Firing a gun into
                                someone's home could either constitute
                                attempted murder, assault, or nothing. It
                                really depends on the situation, e.g. was
                                it an accidental firing, was the owner of
                                the gun aiming at the victim in order to hit
                                or in order to scare, was the firing due
                                to gross negligence or merely negligence, was
                                there a product defect, etc. The same is true
                                for almost hitting a pedestrian with a car,
                                the car in this case would be the deadly
                                weapon vs. the gun. What you are spouting
                                about with your $100 fine is merely the
                                traffic infraction part of the equation,
                                which is a strict liability crime. The motorist
                                in question may still be prosecuted for the
                                above offenses (and depending on your state,
                                there's probably a fine for discharging a
                                gun which is also strict liability). In
                                addition, the victim can sue the motorist
                                for assault if (s)he really wants to. As
                                for your vietnam analogy, that's blatently
                                stupid. So what if cars kill more people
                                per year than in all of vietnam, heart attacks
                                kill more people per year than in all of
                                vietnam also. Should we therefore ban
                                people from being obese and force everyone
                                to exercise? Should we start hunting down
                                every possible dangerous activity that
                                humans engage in and ban them?
                             \_ A cop who saw someone blow through a crosswalk
                                with pedestrians in it could get nailed for
                                all sorts of things in CA starting with various
                                forms of reckless driving.  If there isn't a
                                reason for it like the mechanical failure, it
                                can easily rise to the level of felony.  What
                                state do you live in?
                                \_ Connecticut.  Knowing the 100 dollar fine
                                   for blowing a crosswalk was in the drivers
                                   license test.  As for California I'm going
                                   to simply call bullshit.  I lived in
                                   California for five years, and I never
                                   saw a car pulled over for a crosswalk
                                   violation, and had my life put in danger
                                   hundreds of times by the car weasels who
                                   blew the crosswalks.  I recall people getting
                                   actually hit near campus multiple times.
                                   \_ Ok genius, was a cop nearby?  You're
                                      telling me a cop stood there and was
                                      witness to a car rolling through an
                                      intersection putting life and limb at
                                      risk by nearly hitting pedestrians and
                                      did nothing?  I'm calling big time
                                      bullshit on that one.  I saw one person
                                      get hit while I was in school outside
                                      the dorms.  She was reading the Daily
                                      Cal as she crossed the middle of the
                                      street with traffic oncoming.  Mostly,
                                      cars would actually stop (illegally,
                                      mind you) and let dormies cross the
                                      street when they saw students waiting
                                      for a traffic gap.
                                      \_ You're from LA, aren't you?
              \_ So when a bike is riding on the road do you always give
                 them a full lane?
                 \_ I do.  -!pp
              \_ Lanesplitting is 100% legal.
                 \_ Only for motorcycles, I think.
                    \_ Uh, duh...
                 \_ Do you feel the same way about the Homeland Security Act?
                  \_ When did you stop beating your wife?
        \_ Live105 doesn't exactly have a good track record for rseponsible
           broadcasting.  This should be no surprise.
           \_ Uh, okay... odd little allegation.
              \_ What's odd about it?
                 \_ That you throw it out without so much as an anecdote or
                    url to lend it credence?
                    \_ I figured it was a station enough people here might have
                       heard that I didn't have to explain.  Either way, it's
                       just a music radio station.  The minimal requirement to
                       be a DJ is having a good voice and uhm.  That's it.
                       \_ You clearly have a more finely tuned "responsibility"
                          radar than the rest of us.
                       \_ I too think it's weird to mention something about
                          irresponsible broadcasting and not explain it. -!pp
        \_ If you like getting your ass kicked, telling people to hurt
           motorcyclist in a public forum is a good way to stay happy.
        \_ Scroll down to duc996girl.  Kinda hot.
        \_ Tango and Cash did this about two years ago. They got canned
        \_ Some other idiots did this a few years ago on 92.3. They got canned
           \_ What an ugly asian chick
                \_ Was someone denied sex?
                \_ Did someone get denied sex?
        \_ Kramer and Twitch did this a few years ago on KSJO. They got canned
           a few days later. I am willing to bet this guy gets the boot
           too. Let's make sure that happens by contacting the station.
        \_ Does anyone actually find morning shows like this to be funny?
           Everyone I've talked to just finds them annoying. -gm
        \_ Is this even legal? Can you actually get on the air and
           encourage others to commit murder?
           \_ Anne Coulter said the only way to talk to a liberal is with
              a baseball bat.  I don't see her rotting in jail.
              \_ I'd love to go one one one with that fucking cunt with a
                 baseball bat.  That would be a very short fight.
              \_ The courts have soft spot for the mentally ill.
              \_ Although vile, it's freedom of speech.  Inciting people to
                 assault and kill bikers would never be covered by FoS by
                 even the wildest interpretation of the 1st amendment.
                 \_ Um, that's not what he did.  What he said was stupid,
                    but in no way criminal.
                    \_ If you don't call it incitement then what was it?
                       \_ A great way to boost ratings by getting
                          hypersensitive morons riled?  It's the American
                          way!  -John
                          \_ Why would that boost ratings?  If anything, I'd
                             be less likely to listen.  Morons should not be
                             rewarded for their stupidity.
                             \_ Exactly.  But loudly public righteous
                                indignation is so much more gratifying! -John
        \_ Anyone got a written transcript?
        \_ Okay, so I contacted Beven Dufty, my Supervisor and he promised
           to have the SFPD Chief contact them and express her displeasure
           as well as contacting them personally and asking if the SFMC
           would like to weigh in. If any of you live in San Francisco,
           please contact your Supervisor. I know Ross Mirkarimi rides.
           Is anyone on the motd in District 5?
           as well as contacting them personally and also asking if the SF
           Motorcycle club would like to weigh in. If any of you live
           in San Francisco, please contact your Supervisor. Heck even
           if you don't live in SF, contact your Supervisor, if you think
           there is the least chance that they will be sympathetic.
           I know Ross Mirkarimi rides. Is anyone on the motd in District 5?
2006/1/11-13 [Transportation/Car] UID:41342 Activity:kinda low
        Why insurance companies (home) are rip offs
        \_ Just to clarify, this is about home title insurance, not home
           insurance.   --- !OP
        \_ I don't get it.  Iowa is the only state that provides title
           insurance and the costs are much lower than private title
           insurance ... I thought the gubmint was so inefficient?
           \_ Uh oh, someone needs a refill of their kool aid.
                \_ Freeper flavor?
                   \_ Mmmm. Tastes like freedom. Bitter, angry, resentful
2006/1/10-12 [Transportation/Car] UID:41331 Activity:nil
1/10    To the person who asked about Auto Assualt a few weeks back,
        is giving away 6000 beta keys.
2006/1/9-12 [Transportation/Car] UID:41302 Activity:nil
1/9     How do you buy cars these days?  Do you still haggle with a
        \_ I emailed the closes N dealers for a quote and did all but the
           final negotiations by email.  The final negotiation was by phone.
           Then I went to the dealership to pick up the car.  I'm giving up
           a few % on price, but it's a more pleasant shopping experience.
        \_ It also never hurts to go to and print out their
           quote as a starting point to the bargaining.
        \_ I did everything by fax two years ago, until I went to the dealer to
           write a personal check and pick up the car.

 LocalWords:  dervived
           \_ (free)
              \_ This site tells you how to negotiate and how to trade-in,
                 while fightingchance's idea is that don't even get into a
                 negotiation process and don't trade-in.  Different approach,
                 I guess.  Plus fightingchance provides current (well, at least
                 up to the month) numbers on holdbacks, dealer incentives, and
                 the state of the market for your particular make and model,
                 which helps you choose your price.  But like you said,
                 fightingchance is not free.
2005/12/31-2006/1/4 [Transportation/Car] UID:41181 Activity:nil
        German thieves not to bright
        \_ ja, und Amerikans not to bright either.
2005/12/28-2006/1/1 [Transportation/Car] UID:41157 Activity:low
12/28   'The 2006 Civic offers front seats that are three-quarters of an
        inch wider than those in the 2005 model. Purpose: "To meet the
        growing needs of our customers," spokesman Sage Marie says.'
        \_ To meet the needs of our customers' growing asses would be more
           \_ Heh, I think you completely missed the tongue-in-cheek humor of
              her comment.
2005/12/15-19 [Transportation/Car] UID:41040 Activity:low
12/15   Is anyone here in the Auto Assault beta or know anyone who is?
        I'm just curious what game play is like.  Thanks.
        \_ It feels a lot like COH in terms of interface. It is kind of
        fun but very random. Basically you get a car with different mount
        points on it. On the starter car you can have a rotatable turrent gun,
        a fixed front mounted gun and a fixed rear mounted gun. Not sure if
        you get more weapon mount points as you level. You also get skill
        points to buy skills with that do stuff like give you special abilities
        or passive abilities that increase attack/dmg/speed/etc. You can also
        buy/find/craft upgrades to your car like new tires, new engine, glowy
        scoop, etc. And there are 4 classes for each race. A healer/mechanic,
        a rogue/bounty hunter (can stealth), a commando/tank, and I forget the
        4th one.
        \_ It feels a lot like COH in terms of interface. It is kind of fun
           but very random. Basically you get a car with different mount
           points on it. On the starter car you can have a rotatable turrent
           gun, a fixed front mounted gun and a fixed rear mounted gun. Not
           sure if you get more weapon mount points as you level. You also
           get skill points to buy skills with that do stuff like give you
           special abilities or passive abilities that increase
           attack/dmg/speed/etc. You can also buy/find/craft upgrades to
           your car like new tires, new engine, glowy scoop, etc. And there
           are 4 classes for each race. A healer/mechanic, a rogue/bounty
           hunter (can stealth), a commando/tank, and I forget the 4th one.
           \_ Sounds like the old "Autoduel" I played on my Apple ][.
              \_ Car Wars, baby!
2005/12/10-12 [Transportation/Car] UID:40958 Activity:nil 88%like:40955
12/10   RIP Richard Pryor: (
        \_ "Police in L.A., man, they got a chokehold they use on
           motherfuckers. Do they do it here, do they choke you to death?
           That's some weird shit. Cause I didn't know it was a death penalty
           to have a parking ticket."
2005/11/24-28 [Transportation/Car, Recreation/Food] UID:40727 Activity:low
11/23   Bio-diesel from vegetable oils: (
        \_ This is REALLY COOL, I can't wait till our mighty benevolent
           corporations like Chevron and Enron start mass producing
           bio diesel.
        \_ The energy you get per acre is very small, so even with a free
           catalyst it wouldn't be economical.  Most of the hype about biofuels
           comes from the farming industry seeking subsidies.
           \_ or bio-diesel tinkerers who get their vegetable oils as waste
              product from the food industry. The supply of that, obviously,
              is quite limited.
2005/11/21-23 [Transportation/Car] UID:40670 Activity:nil
11/21   Any recommendation for a car alarm store in Fremont / Union City area?
        My car alarm has been going off a few times a day by itself.  Sometimes
        it even goes off when I'm driving.  I had it installed 9 years ago and
        it's a Python something model.  Thx.
2005/11/15-17 [Transportation/Car] UID:40606 Activity:moderate
11/15   THE Bond DB5 is for sale: (
        \_ Millions for a car that does 0-60 in 8.1 seconds?  Nah.
           \_ If there were a Nobel prize for missing the point, you'd just
              have won it.  -John
           \_ I completely agree. How could anyone think of buying
              a DB5 when they could get a fully r1c3d c1v1c type R
              w/ a prelude engine swap? I mean the DB5 doesn't even
              have an in-dash cd changer, ipod integration, dvd-nav
              or a ps/2 in the glove box.
              \_ So easily trolled...
                 \_ So easily trolled...
                    \_ Your torn-up koran is in the glove compartment of my
                       0-60 in 8.1 seconds babe magnet DB-5.  -John
                       \_ Perhaps you should keep a Walther PPK in the
                          glove box in case of GUN DUEL. :-)
                          \_ Are you scared?       -ilyas
                          \_ My Mossberg 12-gauge fits in the trunk.  -John
              \_ ...... or a spoiler that looks like a high chair feeding tray.
2005/11/11-14 [Transportation/Car] UID:40550 Activity:low
11/11   Is umbrella insurance worth it?  I have a net worth of about $500k from
        appreciate home, stock, 401(k), savings, cars, etc.  I have a working
        wife and a kid.  Thx.
        \_ Not when a new umbrella is $5.  :-)
           \_ I think he's talking about the type of insurance that compensates
              the families of people who's heads get slashed off with katanas
              on the sidewalk becasuse they're using a fucking 6 foot umbrella
              to protect their short ass 5 foot 5 body from  a little drizzle
              while stabbing everyone on the sidewalk in the eye with the
              spikes on the edge of the umbrella.   Five dollars' coverage will
              be insufficient for that.
              \_ No, no -- I think he's making reference to insurance from
                 the Umbrella Corporation so when his family is ravaged by
                 flesh eating zombies in Raccoon City, he'll be able to collect
                 life insurance or something.  Personally, I'd avoid
                 transacting business with them at all, but hey -- each to his
                 own, man.
                 \_ Silly, that's Flesh Eating Zombie insurance.  Which reminds
                    me, thanks, I let mine lapse last week.  I need to go
                    renew.  Brraaaaaiiinnssss....
                    \_ Can you insure againt your wife stopping to work?
2005/11/10-11 [Transportation/Car] UID:40523 Activity:kinda low
11/9    Over the calendar year, are there  better and worse times
        to buy a new car?  Or does that not really apply if you know
        how to price and negotiate?  Does the brand make a difference?
        Say Audi A4 or 3-series BMW or the cheaper option with a Honda?
        \_ The best time is when the new model year comes out. You can
           save a lot of money on the old year. Even better is when they
           change body styles in a model year, if you like the old style.
           \_ Agreed.  I bought my '96 Jeep Cherokee in 8/96, after Chrysler
              announced the first body style change in 13 years for the '97
              model.  Got a good deal.
              \_ and now they've replaced the cherokee entirely with the
                 Liberty.  ICK.
        \_ also if you cant wait try to buy at the end of the day and
           towards the end of the month, when they are more desperate
           to boost their numbers.  but yeah, the best time is when
           the new models come out.
        \_ if you live in north, shop the car around Chrismas.  People
           hates standing in the cold lots shopping for car...  I got this
           from an very experienced car sales man :p
2005/11/7-8 [Transportation/Car] UID:40468 Activity:nil
11/5    Toyota Avalon Police Car:
        \_ Better gas mileage than the Ford interceptor.
           Ford Interceptor: 16 city / 22 hwy
           Toyota Avalon: 22 city / 31 hwy
           But then which one better sustains impact with a suspect's vehicle
           is another question.
2005/11/4-6 [Transportation/Car] UID:40448 Activity:nil
        "A woman on crutches was doused in flammable liquid and set on fire
        earlier this week as she tried to get off a bus in a Paris suburb, a
        judicial official said Friday. She suffered severe burns."
        \_ Is she North African or Black?
           \_ The AP story doesn't say.
           \_ Extra-crispy.
2005/11/4-5 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:40445 Activity:high
11/4    My father is going to give me his 1999 Ford Taurus. I'll be using
        it for grocery shopping and making occassional short trips aroud and
        outside of the Bay Area on weekends. Can someone recommended a good and
        affordable roadside assistance service? Also, can someone recommend an
        auto repair shop that I could use for routine maintenance and any
        problems that pop up?
        \_ For roadside repair, AAA is The Standard. I think it's about $45/yr.
           They also have a list of "AAA Approved" mechanics, which is how I
           found mine (in Mountain View). If you don't get a personal
           recommendation, I suggest you look there. -gm
           \_ $45 includes free towing up to 3mi.  They can even tow from your
              home garage which is not exactly "roadside" and "emergency".
              The next level of membership includes up to 100mi.
              -- member since '92
              home garage which is not exactly "roadside emergency".  The next
              level of membership includes up to 100mi.  -- member since '92
              \_ 7 miles, not 3 miles.
                 \_ Oops, both you and I are wrong.  It's actually 5 miles:
           (  -- member since '92
                    \_ well, it's 7 miles in SoCal (for my zip code anyway).
                       It's probably 5 miles where you are.
              \_ yah, I agree AAA is great.  My car died close to home, I
                 pushed it to the curb, the next day I called my mechanic to
                 let him know my car was coming, then called AAA and they
                 towed it to the auto shop without my needing to go.
              \_ free maps too, and their monthly magazine(so-so) and
                 other discounts to AAA members, like at Fresh Choice
        \_ The downside to AAA is that they lobby strongly for more
           car-friendly pork, often at the expense of, say, public
           transportation and light rail.  See:
           for an alternative organization that will also provide roadside
           bike assistance, albeit with a shorter towing radius.
2005/11/3-4 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:40414 Activity:nil
11/3    The riots keep going and going...
        \_ Guess they should have let them keep their headscarves.
2005/10/28-30 [Transportation/Car] UID:40323 Activity:high
10/28   Hi guys.  I have a 1996 Camry DX (85K miles) and the mechanic says I
        need to replace my shocks.  He quoted me $800 for parts&labor.  Is
        this fair? This place (non-dealership) has done a good job previous
        visits, uses OEM parts most of the time, and is Japanese-owned.
        \_ check out wheelworks.. usually buy 3 get one free ($600)
           on struts.
        \_ if you tires are bouncing (you can tell if you get groves
           deep wear evenly spaced/spread across your tires (like
           if you were bouncing a basketball). if so you need new struts
        \_ The price is about right for a shocks&struts job.  I can't
           comment on the realiability of the labor, which is what you
           comment on the reliability of the labor, which is what you
           should really care about
        \_ Kais Motd would've given you the answer.
        \_ You go on living your life how you want, but I'll just point out
           that your little "problem" will cost you more than I have spent on
           my current bike and my previous bike and all the bike related
           accessories I've ever bought.
           \_ as i've thought throughout college, riding bike is good, but is
              not so good for non-bike dates
        \_ sounds a little on the high-side, but not unreasonable for good
           quality work.
        \_ One more question:  In the context above, is it just the "shocks"
           he's replacing?  I read on howstuffworks that a "strut" technically
           includes the shock absorber too. -op
           \_ A "shock" is a big spring; it's responsible for absorbing jolts
              from the road. A "strut" is a passive hydraulic piston that
              dampens out the vibrations in this spring; if you didn't have
              struts, your car would porpoise up and down after hitting a bump.
              You usually replace shocks and struts at the same time. Shocks
              do less as they age due to fatigue on the metal; struts also wear
              down. I had my shocks&struts changed out a year or so ago on my
              '95 car, and the handling and ride comfort both improved. It was
              less than $800, but not by much. (I have an American car.) -gm
                 From the above URL, it sounds like a "shock" is a piston type
                 device, not really a spring ... -op
                 \_ Hey, how about that. Disregard prior "expertise". -gm
                    \_ No worries ... I almost think some mechanics would look
                       at me funny if I told them taht
        \_ Shocks don't ever really need replacement, unless the ride
           quality is unacceptable to you.
           \_ I was wondering about this as well, why is a guy driving a
              10 year old car worried about how smooth the ride is?
              \_ mechanic said it was time -op
              \_ mechanic said it was time.  Personally I would wait at least
                 two more years or pass the cost to the next owner; I can
                 stand the car bouncing down the freeway, even at ~ 80mph.
                 It's actually my gf's car, though. -op
                 \_ For a car that old, the time to fix things is when
                    they break. Exceptions are anything to do with the
                    cooling system (e.g. hoses), the safety system (e.g.
                    brakes) and the timing belt. You want to replace those
                    items before they break. Shocks? No way.
                    \_ after reading the comments, I've come to agree -- I'd
                       personally replace at leaking shocks (i'd be worried
                       about metal-on-metal grinding).  eh, some people say
                       shocks are part of the safety system, but thanks for
                       the advice.
        \_ I always ask: 1) is this a safety issue?  2) will it cause any
           other damage if I don't pay you a zillion bucks to fix it.  Based
           on those answers I decided if my money will be well spent on a fix
           or not.  I'd spend a few bucks on minor stuff, I'd spend as much
           as reasonably needed for a safety issue (or just replace it if it
           was too much), but wouldn't spend $800 on a non-safety issue that
           didn't bother me.
           \_ Jah.  I'm basically saying, let's assume it's a safety issue.
              Then, Is $x fair for repair y? -op
              \_ Yes, if it's for good quality parts and a good job.
2005/10/25-27 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:40266 Activity:nil
10/25   How long does an average car battery usually last?  I replaced my car
        battery 3.5yrs ago with an $85 one at a mechanic, and now that battery
        seems to be dying.  I drive the car every weekday.  Thx.
        \_ Anywhere from 3-5 years seems normal.  Mine was just replaced after
           5 years of services after I left my lights on.
           5 years of service after I left my lights on.
        \_ Not all batteries are created equal.  The piece of shit factory
           battery that came with my Mitsubishi died in the first year.  The
           Interstate that I replaced it with lasted 7 years.
           \_ Heh, the crappy factory battery in my Ford Taurus almost made it
              to 7.5 years after 105k.                -mice
2005/10/22-24 [Transportation/Car] UID:40229 Activity:nil
10/22   BMW building throwaway cars?
        \_ Easy solution. Stop getting into accidents.
2005/10/22-24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:40225 Activity:very high
10/21   Dear house owners. How much time/week do you spend on house upkeep?
        In another word, how much time do you spend on mowing the lawn,
        pulling weeds, adding fertilizers, watering bald spots, adjusting
        sprinklers, cleaning up the garage (which by the way is used for
        storage instead of storing the car), changing toilet assemblies,
        spraying pesticides, and other things? If you pay someone to do
        it and spend no time on it, please respond with the price you
        pay. I'm asking because as the only son who grew up in the suburbs,
        I had to do all of the above and I HATED IT. I just want to
        find out how much time and/or money grown-ups spend on these
        things, and why people like the routine suburbia lifestyle. Thanks.
        \_ Gardener, 1/wk, $120/month.  House cleaner, 1/wk, 2 persons 4
           hours each, $70/wk.
        \_ Maid service 2/month: $80x2.  A few hours/month on other stuff and
           of course the garage is used for storge.  It was designed for it.
           Why do people like the suburbs?  They don't necessarily.  If you
           have kids putting them in a city school can be disasterous.  Look
           at the SF school system for an example of that.  Lack of space for
           same kids in city.  Lots of people don't like the cramped and often
           loud and/or dirty city living option.  Many other "the city isn't
           where I'd want to be" reasons.  The suburbs are just where you can
           live and still be close enough to have a job.  So you changed toilet
           assemblies so your mom wouldn't have to?  Ok, she could pay a
           plumber to do it and there'd be that many fewer toys at Xmas.  I did
           chores.  You did chores.  Kids do chores (or should).  Welcome to
           the middle class.  There are worse things that could've happened to
           you growing up.
        \_ simple.  buy a tonwhouse.  save lots of trouble.
           \_ How is the SF school system disasterous? Last I checked, they
           \_ How is the SF school system disastrous? Last I checked, they
              were better than the statewide average and the West side high
              schools are particularly good. -ausman
              \_ You're kidding right?  And how do you get into one of those
                 elite schools?  And if you don't, then what?  And if you
                 don't live near your school which is likely how does your
                 kid get there?  Can a grade schooler drive?  Can every
                 high schooler afford a car?  Sit on a bus for a few hours
                 each day?  C'mon....
                 \_ You get into Lincoln and Washington just like you get into
                    every high school in San Francisco. If you have good enough
                    test scores, you get into Lowell and get an education as
                    good as the priciest private school. I grew up in a rural
                    region and took a bus 1/2 hr each way until I could afford
                    to buy my own car. I did not find that particularly onerous.
                    Do you really think it takes "a few hours" to get anywhere
                    in a city that is 7 miles by 8 miles? I could walk anywhere
                    in The City in less than a few hours.
                    I just pulled down the STAR results for San Francisco and
                    compared them to Orange and Riverside Counties, two
                    California suburban counties and they compare favorably.
                    \_ How long ago were you in school?  Read the papers to
                       see what's going on there today.  And yes, a school
                       bus has to make many stops, obey traffic laws cars
                       tend to ignore and drive slow, so yeah, an hour or
                       more each way wouldn't be odd.  I've walked across the
                       city from the market area west to the beach.  You're
                       not saying a kid should walk that to school?  Why do
                       you even mention walking?  And here's a concept: why
                       should a kid have to get high test scores to get into
                       a particular school on the other side of the city?
                       Why can't the local school be as good as any other?
                       Why is there a tiny number of elite schools and the
                       rest are dismal anti-academic pits?
                       \_ Why isn't everyone above average, is that what
                          you are seriously asking? It is obvious that
                          \_ Not every school can be above average, but every
                             school can and should be good.
                             \_ Lowell is elite because they are very
                                selective about their admission criteria.
                                \_ Are you implying that non-selective schools
                                   cannot be good?  Otherwise I fail to
                                   understand how your point respond to the
                                   previous poster's that all schools should
                                   be good.  In any case, Lowell entrance is
                                   selective only if you're a non-protected
                                   minority.  Entrance for protected minorities
                                   is relatively easy, no?
                                   \_ No, I honestly don't think all schools
                                      can be good. Can you point to one
                                      school in an impoverished area that is
                                      good? Schools can only do so much.
                                      Lowell is a great school because it is
                                      selective. There are good schools in
                                      San Francisco and elsewhere that are not
                                      "selective" overtly, but they still
                                      select from an educated and privileged
                                      section of the population.
                                      Having said that, yes it is too bad
                                      that we don't do a better job educating
                                      everyone. Holding up SF schools as an
                                      example of a disastrous failure is not
                                      a very strong one.
                                   is relatively trivial, no?
                                      \_ So good schools are good because they
                                         only let in smart kids?  So you're
                                         saying it doesn't matter how much
                                         funding, what teachers, which books,
                                         or anything else; just put all the
                                         smart kids together and you get a
                                         good school.  And the opposite is
                                         true?  Put the less than brilliant
                                         kids together and you get a bad
                                         school?  It seems the way to get
                                         decent but not fantastic schools for
                                         everyone is to spread those smart
                                         kids around.
                                         \_ Perhaps, but I don't know how you
                                            are going to convince parents to
                                            do that. If you really believe
                                            what you preach, why didn't you
                                            go to SJ State instead of UCB?
                                            By the way, your technique is
                                            practiced in many states throughout
                                            the upper midwest, to good effect,
                                            so you certainly have a point.
                                         \_ When I went to Lowell, it was
                                            massively underfunded and falling
                                            apart at the seams.  It was a good
                                            school that produced excellent
                                            students due to a combination of
                                            letting in smart people, who didn't
                                            drag the other people in their
                                            classes down, and great, dedicated
                                            teachers.  Naturally this is a
                                            generalization--there were a few
                                            morons, both students and teachers.
                                            However, their negative effect was
                                            minimal due to the above.  No, not
                                            everyone can be a winner, life is
                                            not fair.  And yes, most students
                                            there "had" to commute.  Like a
                                            lot of Cal students commute-you
                                            do it because you value the
                                            education over your comfort. -John
                                         \_ I read a research study on this
                                            for colleges, not high schools.
                                            The conclusion is that the school
                                            only matters in one case - a
                                            top student goes to a bad school.
                                            then the student's achievement
                                            could be affected.  in all other
                                            cases - good student going to
                                            good school, or midrange school,
                                            average student going to good
                                            school or average school or bad
                                            school, etc., the school doesn't
                                            make a difference.
                          you nothing about San Francisco schools and
                          barely anything about San Francisco. K-6 schools
                          barely anything about San Francisco. K-5 schools
                          are mostly within walking distance and high schoolers
                          take MUNI, not a school bus. My commute to work
                          is 35-45 minutes, I don't see why my (future) teenage
                          daughter shouldn't have a similar commute.
                          \_ Because she's a kid and kids shouldn't have to
                             commute.  You have a choice in the matter.  Your
                             child is stuck with your decisions.  That you
                             can't see that is oddly disturbing.
                             \_ It is nice that you want to give your child
                                every advantage in the world, but it might
                                set them up for some dissapointments when
                                they have to face the real world.
                                \_ Uhm, so you're "toughening her up"?  The
                                   real world is there in her face every day.
                                   I could go on but our philosophies are so
                                   different anything more I say would look
                                   like a personal insult and there's no need
                                   for that.  I'm ok agreeing to disagree if
                                   you are.  I'm stopping now.
                                   \_ I grew up in a rural area, where I had
                                      to get up at dawn to feed the chickens
                                      ducks and rabbits, collect the eggs
                                      and prepare breakfast for my seven
                                      siblings. Then I got on a half hour
                                      bus ride to school. After school, I helped
                                      in the garden, washed my own clothes and
                                      spent an hour a night washing dishes or
                                      doing other chores. I think that growing
                                      up like that made me a better person than
                                      my spoiled and self-indulgent classmates.
                                      I don't intend for my child to have that
                                      hard a life, but I don't want her to end
                                      up a spoiled princess either.
                                      my narcissistic and self-indulgent class-
                                      mates. I don't intend for my child to have
                                      that hard a life, but I don't want her to
                                      to work that hard, but I don't want her to
                                      end up a spoiled princess either.
                                      \- hear hear.
                          And you plan on moving to the suburbs to escape
                          what you percieve as "disastrous" urban schools,
                          but you decry the fact that some people prefer to
                          send their kids to better urban schools? Have you
                          ever heard of the term "hypocrisy"?
                          send their kids to better urban schools? Maybe the
                          reason some schools aren't as good as they might
                          be is because a bunch of overly fearful parents
                          moved to the suburbs to isolate themselves from
                          poor people and other "dangerous" sorts. The truth
                          is that the cities are no more dangerous than the
                          suburbs, it is just that the risks are different.
                          \_ What he is asking is why everyone isn't able
                             to obtain a quality education in SF. The best
                             schools are so much better than even the
                             average schools. This is different from, say,
                             LA Unified where pretty much all the schools suck
                             equally. Personally, I'd avoid public schools
                             altogether. If you can afford to live in SF
                             then you can afford a private school.
                             \_ Lots of parents look for houses in areas with
                                good schol disctricts, so they can send their
                                kids to public schools and apply the money
                                that would have gone to a private school
                                tuition to the mortgage instead.  The question
                                is whether it's to educational benefit of
                                children (in the aggregate, assuming a random
                                distribution of children) to live in a city
                                like San Francisco, where they have a chance
                                to end up in some truly awful schools, or in
                                a city like San Jose, where the quality range
                                of school is narrower, or in a suburban town,
                                where the quality range is narrow indeed.
                                There are of course non-educational pros and
                                cons for living in each city, and the emphasis
                                placed on education varies from family to
                                family.  But, I suspect, using San Francisco
                                as an example, unless one has a reasonable
                                I suspect, unless one has a reasonable
                                expectation that one's child will end up in
                                one of the top few schools, it's better for
                                the child's education to live in a town where
                                the likelihood of going to a bad school is low.
                                family.  But, I suspect, unless one has a
                                reasonable expectation that one's child will
                                end up in one of the top few schools, it's
                                better for the child's education to live in a
                                town where the likelihood of going to a bad
                                school is low.
                                There are of course non-educational pros and
                                cons for living in each city, and the emphasis
                                placed on education varies from family to
                                \_ You are guaranteed one of your top three
                                   choices of high schools in San Francisco.
                                   So just put down Washington, Lincoln and
                                   Wallenbeg and you are guaranteed a good
                                   school in a safe neighborhood. Any irrational
                                   fear of something else bad happening to you
                                   is simply that, an irrational fear.
                                   \_ Ok so if *everyone* is *guaranteed* one
                                      of their top three choices, why doesn't
                                      everyone in SF put down the same three
                                      top schools and leave all the rest
                                      \_ All right, I guess I was wrong. I was
                                      \_ All right, I guess I misspoke. I was
                                         repeating what I had read in The
                                         Examiner. It seems that you have to
                                         put down 7 choices and even then they
                                         Examiner. I guess you have to put
                                         down 7 choices and even then they
                                         not guaranteed. The Examiner claims
                                         that 99% of parents get one of their
                                         top three choices, at least in 2003.
                                         Circumstances, can of course change.
                                         But they can change anywhere, even in
                                         a tony suburb.
                                         \_ So, living in a city like SF _does_
                                            mean your kid can end up in a
                                            shitty school on the other side of
                                            town and there's nothing you can
                                            do about it?  Thus, we see a very
                                            good reason for parents to live in
                                            a place where there is no chance of
                                            going to a bad school and a good
                                            chance of a better school.  It
                                            means sacrificing the cool city
                                            life but sacrificing is what good
                                            parents do.
                                            \_ Or you can spend more time with
                                               your kids to make sure they do
                                               well in their studies / get into
                                               good schools.
                                               \_ You do realize that your
                                                  solution is not scalable.
                                                  \_ In what sense? If you have
                                                     lots of children? Or to all
                                                     \_ The latter mostly,
                                                        though the former to a
                                                        lesser degree also.
                                                     \_ Your solution only works
                                                        if most parents do not
                                                        stress their kids'
                                                        education.  If many
                                                        parents try to make
                                                        sure their kids do
                                                        well in their studies,
                                                        then almost none of
                                                        them can have a
                                                        reasonable expectation
                                                        of getting into the top
                                                        few schools.
                                            \_ In the 1% case, you can either:
                                               a) send your kids to private school
                                               a) send your kids to private
                                               b) move to the suburbs then.
                                               This is what I plan on doing, if
                                               I talk my wife into it. -ausman
                         \_ So the solution to the problem of not every student
                            getting a quality education in a city is to move
                            to a gated suburb and isolate yourself from the
                            rest of the world? Perhaps the real question is
                            why doesn't every student get a quality education
                            everywhere, but asking that question might force
                            the questioner to admit some of the responsibility
                            for the failure onto themselves, which they seem
                            spectacularly unable or unwilling to do.
                            \_ Uhm, where are all these 'gated suburbs' of
                               which you speak?  Could you point out a few
                               because I haven't seen any.  I do like your
                               rhetorical bit in the second half though.  A
                               nice combination of 'high horse-ism', a touch
                               of holier-than-thou mixed with a dash of
                               you-selfish-bastard.  Could you possibly take
                               a moment to explain how a city school in some
                               other county sucking is in any way the fault
                               of someone in a suburb, mythically gated or
                               not, 20+ miles away?
                               \_ Because there are only so many dollars in
                                  the world and so many gifted teachers. If
                                  Blackhawk takes more than its share, then
                                  there is less to go around to the rest.
                                  I am kind of astonished that I would have
                                  to explain this to an engineer.
                                  Shorebird Islands in Redwood City and
                                  Silver Creek Valley Country Club in San
                                  Jose are gated, two that I found using
                                  google in sixty seconds. Since 40% of new
                                  developments in California are gated, you
                                  must not have looked very hard.
                                  \_ Redwood City and SJ?  Yech.  I would never
                                     live in such a place so you're right, I
                                     didn't look very hard in such places.
                                     Anyway, what you seem to be saying is that
                                     a district that can afford to pay teachers
                                     better is somehow cheating and robbing a
                                     poorer district of their rightfully
                                     deserved quality teachers.  However, we
                                     see John posting that Lowell was a broken
                                     pit when he went there and someone else
                                     posted about a study (yes, college, not
                                     HS, but it's what we've got) that said
                                     good students tend to do well where ever
                                     they go and bad students do poorly and
                                     etc.  So what exactly are the people in
                                     SJ stealing from SF?  Smart kids?
                                     \_ It wasn't a total loss; it was very
                                        mediocre and underfunded in terms of
                                        infrastructure, not some slum.  I read
                                        some figures at the time that LHS got
                                        fraction of the average per student $$
                                        of other SF public high schools--the
                                        rumor about at the time was that a few
                                        of the more crackpot supervisors like
                                        Harry Britt didn't like the idea of an
                                        "elite" school paid for by tax dollars
                                        and tried to kill it.  Whatever--what
                                        made it was the combination of really
                                        good and dedicated teachers and high
                                        qualiy (i.e. selected) students.  -John
                                        \_ Don't 50% of the graduates go to
                                           Stanford, Berkeley and or an Ivy?
                                           That sounds like a pretty good
                                           school to me.
                                           \_ It is (was?) a great school.
                                              That is my point.  It was so
                                              to a large degree because they
                                              only let good/smart students in
                                              and were able to focus on giving
                                              them a good education.  This
                                              seems to be some sort of elitist
                                              taboo in some cirles.  -John
                                              \_ Not elitist, but it sort
                                                 of disregards cause/effect.
                                                 If all you accept are
                                                 smart kids then you will
                                                 have a 'good school' by
                                                 the measures the state
                                                 uses. That school may or
                                                 may not actually be better.
                                     \_ You have never heard of Blackhawk? You
                                        are just a troll, wasting my time.
                                        \_ Blackhawk houses are all multi-
                                           million bucks.  That is hardly the
                                           suburbs or a typical gated
                                           community.  Famous/rich sports
                                           stars, actors, and the 'captains
                                           of industry' live there.  You're
                                           welcome to try again.
                                           \_ I sang at Behring's house last
                                              Christmas.  Good freakin' god.
                                              30k sq. ft. is a LOT of room.
                                              I think he's the only one
                                              anywhere in Blackhawk that
                                              actually knows how to spend his
                                              wealth well.  His gem and mineral
                                              collection is incredible.  He
                                              has some stunning ivory carvings
                                              in there as well.  Haven't seen
                                              his car museum yet, but it could
                                              be fun.
                                           \_ Blackhawk is not in the suburbs?
                                              Where is it then?
                                              \_ Mogadishu
                                      \_ No, I never stated or implied that anyone
                                         was "stealing" anything. That was your
                                         emotionally charged response to my
                                         suggestion that you are at least
                                         partially responsible for creating the
                                         kind of world you live in. When people
                                         with intelligence, talent, drive and
                                         creativity abandon a community, that
                                         community suffers. One certainly has
                                         the right to excercise your free will
                                         and abandon it, but to do so and then
                                         turn around and criticize that very
                                         same community for the consequences of
                                         your actions seems bizarre.
        \_ the one thing berkeley taught me is you don't have to live
           the boring, conformist, suburban life if you don't want to.
           \_ What I always found hilarious about a lot of Berkeley students
              is how uniquely concerned with being "nonconformist" so many of
              them were, instead of just getting on with their lives.  -John
              \_ I agree, and not just Berkeley but the whole Bay Area.
                 OTOH, if you venture outside of Berkeley/Bay
                 OTOH, when you venture outside of Berkeley/Bay
                 Area after graduation, the experience at Berkeley is a
                 good thing, in my opinion.
           \_ so you're living the same nonconformist life style everyone
              else in the bay area is?
              \_ don't feel offended.  if you want to live the boring,
                 conformist, suburban life, you are free to do so.
                 \_ offended? no one is offended.  quite the opposite. i
                    think your claims to kewlness are cute.
                    \_ "claims to kewlness"?  what've you been smoking?
                       I live in a city derided in a movie, or so I heard,
                       as the suburb of suburbs.
                       \_ then what are you talking about?
                          \_ huh?  what are you talking about?
                             \_ what are the two of you talking about?
                       \_ Ok, I've got to ask...what city do you live in? -!pp
                          \_ Must be LA.
                             \_ Or a suburb of chicago.
        \_ My downstairs tenants do all the gardening for free. I have to
           pay for things like plants and fertilizer, so it costs me about
           $10/mo. I have had to have two bathrooms rebuilt since I bought
           this place, which cost about $9k and took up at least three
           weekends of my time. I paid people to do most of the work, but
           I bought and delivered all the parts. I built a methlab in the
           I bought and delivered all the parts. I built a shed in the
           backyard from a kit, which cost me $500 and took up four weekends.
           As for cleaning, I spend the same amount as I did when I had
           an apartment, maybe a bit less, since my wife is less of a slob
           than my roommates were. -ausman
2005/10/21-24 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:40212 Activity:low
10/21   Used Lexus LS 430 year 2002, 74000 miles for $28000. Interior
        exterior look nice, seller is a friend. Good/bad deal?
        \_ Uh, 74K in 3-4 years?
        \_ Check
             \_ it's around $27-29k depending on the condition of the car.
        \_ Not a great deal, IMO. The miles are too high. Same car with
           20K miles would be a decent deal. These cars don't cost more
           than $40K new.
           \_ This is a $55k new car.
              \_ Whoops! I confused the LS and the ES!
        \_ For that price, I would not buy a used car.
           \_ A new Toyota Avalon seems like a good "poor man's" replacement
              for a mid-sized Luxury vehicle in this price range.
           \_ Seconded. Why would you get a used Lexus w/ 74K miles
              when you could get a NEW Legacy GT for the same price?
                \_ Because The Lexus LS is one of the best luxury cars on the
                   market (Bill Gates drives one) and a Legacy GT is a Legacy
        \_ Sounds like a decent deal, assuming the 74000 miles are mostly
           highway miles.  Toyotas are very reliable and the Lexus LS series
           is one of the most reliable Toyotas.  Yes, it costs $55K new but
           once you add a few options, taxes, and other stuff the new car
           might cost closer to $70K.
           might cost closer to $70K.  Oh, and it is not very fuel efficient
           unless you compare it to an SUV.  It's a heavy, tank like car with
           a gigantic V8 engine.  It also has a serenely quiet drive, the
           best sonically insulated car I've ever driven.
           \_ 4.3 liters is not "gigantic" for a V8.
                \_ Okay, "a gigantic engine (V8)" happy?
                   \_ Hmm, I think I'd go with big over gigantic either way.
                      A 2.0L is smallish, 3.0 just is, 4.3 is big, 5.0 is
                      pretty huge, the 8.0L Dodge Viper V10 is gigantic.
                                                   --annoying pedant
                      \_ yea, but your 2 inch penis is still classified
                         as ... tiny.               - dumb troll
2005/10/18-19 [Transportation/Car] UID:40149 Activity:moderate
10/17   I was driving home late the other night going around the speed
        limit with no other cars in sight. Then all of a sudden, I see
        these headlights approach from the horizon on the left lane
        until he reaches my car and pulls into my lane (all the way
        on the right) and he tailgates me for about 3 miles. When he
        finally pulls off, it turns out to be a CHP. Why do they do
        crap like this? Are they just being jackasses?
        \_ They're checking speed and such.   That behavior is almost
           exclusively CHP, I always get out of the way when I'm in the
           left lane and someone does that to me.
           \_ Pulling within several feet of another car on an open
              hwy is just harrassing and very dangerous. And I wasn't
              speeding. What makes him think that it's going to
              change for the next 3 miles?
              \_ One time I was driving back from my girlfriend's house
                 in St. Helena, and it's like 3 am.  I get a tail gater
                 for a mile or so.  I speed up a few mph, and he hits his
                 lights.  He basically asked me "what is a 19 year old from
                 fremont doing in st. helena at 3 am" and let me go.
              \_ I don't know, I'm not a CHP officer, but I imagine it
                 allows him to check you more closely for suspicious
                 behavior: swerving, etc.
                 \_ He could also be getting closer to check your plate. Or
                    he could just be an asshole. -gm
                    \_ Oh, good one.  I'd forgotten registration. -pp
           \_ I tend to slow down.  But there was this one time I was
              actually doing about 10-15mph over the limit and CHP was
              behind me and asked me over their loudspeaker to pull over
              but didnt turn on the red/blue lights, just their bright
              white lights.  So, I called CHP via 911 and asked them to
              confirm that there was a CHP officer trying to pull me over,
              and explained that their officer failed to properly identify
              him/herself as a police officer.  Guess this pissed his
              CO off enough to chew the officer out after we both pulled
              over and so no ticket for me.
        \_ Maybe he hoped you'd speed up and then he'd give you a ticket.
           \_ This reminds me of something I've seen on 280 during commute
              hours: CHP cuts into #2 lane and hits his brakes, fairly hard;
              the car behind him pulls into the carpool lane to avoid hitting
              the CHP car; then the CHP officer pulls over that car, presumably
              for a carpool violation. True, the following car should have left
              enough room that a lane change wasn't needed, but it still seems
              both dangerous and stupid. Maybe something else was going on
              there. -gm
              \_ I mentioned this because this actually happened to my dad.
                 We were on vacation in Europe like 20 years ago driving
                 through Belgium with foreign plates, so I guess the cops
                 there saw this as a nice revenue stream. One cop tailgated
                 our car, dad sped up thinking cop wanted this -> ticket.
                 \_ If this happens to you in any EU country + CH, stay calm
                    and tell the cop he was tailgating, which is harassment,
                    and that you have a witness.  He'll let you go  The
                    European court of human rights has curtailed that kind of
                    jackass behavior by cops reasonably well.  -John
                 \_ (nice nuke, asshole.)  If this happens to you anywhere in
                    Europe or CH, confront the cop politely and say that he
                    was harassing you, and that you have a witness--the guy
                    will almost certainly lay off.  The European court of
                    human rights, for all of its silliness, has done a pretty
                    good job of curtailing jerk cops.  -John
        \_ CHP has the most difficult police academy, but yet they are
           nothing more than AAA with guns. They hardly ever solve typical
           crimes. They maintain a SWAT team only for capitol and defer to
           local PD/Sheriff units for tactical situations on the freeway.
           And their CHP 11-99 foundation charges more than other police
           charities. Not to mention they DUI commanders off the hook.
           (The CHP commadner for Socal apparently has a past of DUIs)
           \_ Do you mean "They let commanders with DUIs off the hook?"
                 \_ I was actually just trying to clarify the last
                    sentence of the previous post.  Nice link though.
           \_ What is the deal with the CHP 11-99? I went to a Ferrari
              show and lots of the Ferraris had CHP 11-99 license plate
              frames. If you have that frame does that mean you might be
              able to avoid getting a ticket?
               \_ Essentially you have donated $500 for a possible
                  avoid a _CHP_ ticket. It goes to help their officer
                  down fund.
        \_ Sounds like this cop was trying to bait you into a getting a speeding ticket.
           \- i wonder if this "rush you from behind" is a common cop
              tactic deliberately to get you to speed up or just to
              catch up to check you out. at the bottom of the pleasant
              valley hill [which is absurdly 25mph and frequently has
              a cop hiding at the bottom on a side street] where it
              becomes grand ave i had a cop drive up to me a liek 50mph
              so i sped up to get out of his way and then got a ticket.
              i wasnt going 25 admitedly, but this seemed kind of leem.
              also with 0 traffic at 11pm on sunday.
              \_ Do police have the authority to speed when not in a
                 pursuit? Can you fight the ticket based on that alone?
                 (I was going the speed limit and this idiot cop went
                 2x the limit to catch up with me.)
                 \_ I've been told that they can only violate traffic laws
                    when they have their lights on. I know I've seen cops
                    turn on their lights, blow through a red light, and turn
                    them off again on empty streets late at night. This may
                    not apply to speeding. -gm
                    \- to abbreviate bighead's comments ... "different jobs
                       have different perqs. when you are a cop, your perq
                       is you can break the law."
                       is you can break the law." --psb
                       \_ s/perq/perk/
                          \- i like using "perq" since it is short for
                             perquisite and "perk" has another meaning
                             [as in "perk up" "perky breasts"] although
                             you're right, "perk is the standard".
                          \_ I think perq is more correct in this context.
                             Use any dictionary and look up 'perquisite'.
                             \- my dictionary does not contain "perq"
                                and has other meanings for "perk" however
                                going by google hits, "perk" seems to be
                                the more common short form for 'perquisite"
                                and this is backed up in Fowler MEU 3rd Ed.
                                So while I acknowledge "perk" may be more
                                common, i continue to use "perq" and feel
                                that should get a pass. --psb
2005/10/17-19 [Transportation/Car] UID:40131 Activity:low
10/16   Which insurance policy/company would you recommend for a first-time
        car driver in his late 20s (just got the license).
        \_ Looking to save money, or looking for customer service, or what?
           It'll cost a buttload any way you go.  Don't register an
           expensive car, for sure.
           \_ Looking to save money of course. Should I be looking to good
              customer service too? I'll drive a 5-year old Taurus.
        \_ When my wife was in a similar situation (1st-time driver in her
           mid-twenties), she found an insurance agent who was willing to
           give her credit for 10 years of (nonexistent) driving experience
           back in the mother country, which lowered her rate somewhat.  Both
           my wife and the agent are <ethnic>, and that made the deal possible.
           YMMV, of course.
           \_ hope your wife and agent didn't make other deals
              \_ Isn't impugning another person's honor a sorryable offense
                 now?  Politburo?
                 \_ What honor?
        \_ if you had your permit for those years, allstate gives you credit
           for them. -dwc
2005/10/7-9 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:40008 Activity:nil
10/7    My 2 year old motorcycle that I bought new has about 8000 miles and
        I already need to change my rear tire. In addition, my lead-acid
        battery is crapping out. I've been having to add distilled water and
        the negative contact keeps getting corroded. Today while checking
        the cable the contact just broke off! I went to the shop today and
        got a new maintenance-free SLA Yuasa battery for $71. In addition
        a new rear tire costs about $175. In comparison, my car battery costs
        about the same and lasts twice as long, and each car tire costs about
        1/2 of the motorcycle tire and lasts 5-6X as long. As for mileage?
        I get only 45MPG, which is still less than a Prius. This totally
        debunks the myth that motorcycles are much more economical to operate
        than cars. What a dissapointment.
        \_ Never seen the battery issue, but yes motorcycle tires don't
           last as long.  They are made to be super sticky because you
           need that traction a lot more than you do on a car.  Also,
           especially if you are a new rider, you are a lot more likely
           to skid the rear tire.  That being said there are tires out there
           that will last 10-15k, but they are going to add a tiny bit of
           risk to your ride, is that worth it to you? 2 tires/8k miles is
           about 2-3 cents a mile.
           As to 45MPG what bike do you have and how do you ride it?
           If all you want is a commuter bike you don't need a super sporty
           bike.  Even a dinky motorcycle has an obscene power/weight ratio
           when compared to any car, esepcially a prius.
                \_ How about the Bugatti Veyron?
        \_ A coworker rides a motorcycle to work every day.  He said he has
           to change tires every 7500 or so and gas mileage varies a lot
           based on how you ride.  He also gets to lane split his way to
           work which I'm pretty sure a Prius can't ;-) and can park almost
           anywhere, sometimes for free.  How much research did you do before
           buying a bike?  And what's up with 4k miles/year?  That isn't a
           commute vehicle.
        \_ Who makes your crappy bike?
           \_ Kawasaki
        \_ My bikes are 55 and 60 years old, have ca. 30k miles, and I don't
           have this problem 8)  -John
           \_ You have a bike from 1945 and 1950? Are you serious? What
              brand are they and do you have problem getting a mechanic
              servicing them?
              \_ 1951 Condor A580 (Swiss army bike) and 1946 Moto Guzzi
                 Airone 250.  The Condor's no prob, since as with all army
                 stuff everywhere there's loads of spare parts and it never
                 breaks (had some major repairs on replacement of worn out
                 cylinders and valves though).  As for the Airone, I'm about to
                 find out how much pain it'll be to get it street legal and
                 store it (it's more of an investment).  There are garages
                 specializing in both here though, and I made friends with the
                 old guy who bought all the surplus stocks of spares for
                 Condors a while ago.  Not for the faint of heart.  Pics are
                 in ~john/Bikes if you're interested.  -John
                 Condors a while ago.  Not for the faint of heart.  -John
        \_ How much is your insurance?
        \_ Yes, repairing a motorcycle is more expensive than fixing a
           car.  No surprise there, the demand is low, and to most, it is
           a toy.  However, you win on gas, insurance, parking, and
           \_ And depreciation.
              \_ But lose big on safety.
                 \_ And you can't get laid in the back seat.
                    \_ And you lack imagination.  And flexibility.  -John
2005/9/30-10/3 [Transportation/Car] UID:39931 Activity:nil
9/30    Prototyping the military hardware of tomorrow:  -John
        \_ "A recreational activity practiced by some individuals is ignition
            of one's own flatus."  Is it possible to do that without burning
            your ass?
            \_ One reason to ban gays in the military -- you don't want to clot
            \_ One reason to ban gays in the military -- you don't want to clog
               your weapons system.
               \_ In a history of dumb things posted to the motd, this truly
                  stands out. Whether you are to be congratulated or yoked
                  with utter shame is a question that will plague these
                  proceedings for hours.
                  \_ Hmm, someone didn't appreciate the humor.
2005/9/26-28 [Transportation/Car] UID:39882 Activity:nil
9/26    How come diesel engines run more efficiently than regular
        gasoline engines? Is it because diesel fuels contain more
        energy/volume? If you burn the same quantity of diesel fuel
        as regular gasoline, will both release different amounts of
        \_ Yes diesel is more energy dense.
           \_ and it's also denser too.
        \_ "On average, 1 gallon (3.8 L) of diesel fuel contains approximately
           155x10^6 joules (147,000 BTU), while 1 gallon of gasoline contains
           132x10^6 joules (125,000 BTU)."
        \_ They have a much more effient thermodynamic cycle,
           higher compression, and they don't draw a vacuum on partial
           throttle. --jwm
           \_ "A gasoline engine compresses at a ratio of 8:1 to 12:1, while a
              diesel engine compresses at a ratio of 14:1 to as high as 25:1.
              The higher compression ratio of the diesel engine leads to better
              But I don't understand how higher compression ratio leads to
              better efficiency.  Maybe there is more air to burn per unit of
              fuel, so closer to 100% of the fuel is burnt.
              \_ Compression ratio matters not so much because you're
                 compressing more air into the gasoline vapor, but because
                 after ignition the exhaust gas is at a higher pressure and
                 pushes on the piston for a longer distance.  Imagine after
                 pulling in the fuel-air mixture it is at pressure P.  One
                 engine does some work to compress to 10P while the other does
                 more work to compress to 20P.
                 The gas engine has expended 9P on compression while the diesel
                 expended 19P.
                 After ignation the pressure
                 goes up another 10P, so the gas engine is at 20P while the
                 diesel is at 30P.  Now on expansion the gas engine expands 10x
                 to do (20-20/10)P=18P work.  The diesel expands (30-30/20)P=
                 28.5P work.  Subtracting the original work of compression the
                 gas engine gained a net of 9P while the diesel gained 9.5P
                 work.  Not a big difference but as you keep increasing the
                 compression ration the amount of work extracted converges to
                 the amount the gas provided, 10P.
2005/9/24-26 [Transportation/Car] UID:39861 Activity:nil
9/24    Lessons learned from Rita: Be sure you have a Magellan RoadMate
        and a Japanese car.
2005/9/23-27 [Transportation/Car] UID:39837 Activity:nil
9/23    Stepping on the gas and make the engine reach the red line is bad. Does
        this also apply if the engine is not under load, ie. if I step on the
        gas while leaving the transmission in Neutral?  Thanks.
        \_ Reving under no load is worse for your engine than reving with
           a load.
        \_ Unless your car is old, your rev limiter will keep you from
           doing that. You can damage your car by doing something called
           a "money shift" which is to shift from 5th to 2nd under high
           speeds in which case your engine will red line and would
           probably damage your engine.
        \_ yeah. you can damage if you redline in neutral..
          i do it for fun though.. at stop signs ..
        \_ Speaking of red-lining, is there a FUCKING reason why those
           annoying wanna-be-cool biker dudes like to rev up their ear
           shattering bike engines when they're stopped? Is that suppose to
           clear up the engine or something, cuz their engines always seem
           like they're gonna choke and die when idling. Or is this one of
           those "I am loud look at me I'm cool" type of deal? I HATE bikers.
           \_ It is a bad habit I got into when I used to ride old crappy
              bikes that always had trouble idling when cold.
                \_ It appears to be even more important to do at around 3 am
                   in a quiet neighborhood.
           \_ There's no reason a well maintained Harley would have trouble
              with stalling.  It's just to look cool.  Or because they're
              bored and want to go.
           \_ "I bought a status symbol and I want everyone to know it."
              \_ "I bought a Harvey because deodorant prices are going up."
              \_ "I bought a Harley because deodorant prices are going up."
              \_ Q: What's the difference between a Hoover and a Harley?
                 A: The location of the dirt bag.
2005/9/20-21 [Transportation/Car] UID:39773 Activity:nil
9/20    Hey I just cancelled AAA automobile insurance today. I'm very very
        happy. They didn't know how to handle insurance claims I made last
        year and made a mess. My license was suspended due to multiple errors
        they wrote on the SR-1p form. Fuck AAA automobile insurance. BTW
        I just went to and got a new insurance w/ MORE coverage
        and LESS cost. Fuck AAA.
        \_  AAA cancelled my insurance when I got a fix-it ticket because
            they said I had some rate that was instantly invalid if I got
            any sort of infraction, then they charged me $50 for the
            privilege, then all sorts of other stupid shit happened. - danh
            \_ I'm the op. Here's what happened to me. Someone rear-ended
               me. The other side paid for repairs because she was at-fault.
               AAA said they'll take care of everything else, like sending
               in the SR-1p form to DMV. I drove happily for 10 months but
               one day got a call from AAA who said they're cancelling my
               renewal because I haven't had a valid driver's license for 8
               months! I went to the DMV to see why and it turns out my
               license was suspended because DMV never got an SR-1p from AAA,
               so DMV made the assumption that I was driving without a valid
               insurance. I called AAA to ask them to resend again, and they
               said they'll take care of it. Sadly, AAA typed the SR-1p with
               the WRONG date, so 2 months later, without any notification,
               my license was STILL suspended. I also couldn't get new
               insurance with other companies because DMV tagged me as a
               bag driver due to the SR-1p. That's a WHOLE YEAR without
               a license. Finally after making countless calls, and having
               to contact managers at AAA, they typed up a good SR-1p form.
               DMV changed me license for $55 penalty, but I finally got my
               license back. People at AAA are very new, clueless, and the
               turnover rate is very very fast. FUCK AAA.
        \_ Just a different data point: I've had allstate for 15+ years.
           I got into an accident about 10 years ago (my fault) and almost
           totalled my car.  Allstate was very good about taking care of
           everything, they were efficient, quick, and pleasant throughout
           the whole process.  My car was even repaired to good as new even
           though it came within like $1 of being totalled.
           \_ From my point of view it's a bad thing that they repaired
              your car when it was so wrecked. I had a bad insurer once
              who paid $8K+ to repair my $13K car and the car has never
              been the same. OTOH, one of my cars now is worth $3.5K and I'd
              really prefer it fixed than taking the cash. It depends on
              the situation. Given a choice, assuming it's a nice $20-30K
              car, I want the cash.
           \_ It's not necessarily a good thing that they fixed your
              totalled car.
                \_ It was for me. I had a working car, which I had paid for
                   with cash (2 paychecks worth).  Excellent body shop.  I'm
                   on my third car now and I've yet to take out an auto loan.
                   \_ If you have a beater it might be worth it. If you
                      have a nice car it is not. Whether you have a loan or
                      not is irrelevant.
           \- i've had my car stereo stolen something like 4 times.
              under AAA, i rec'd by far the largest settlement.
              i have also had allstate and they are ok too. swtiched
              from AAA when AAA prices went above allstate i think.
              i think the allstate agent was willing to engage in some
              "optimization" to reduce the cost ... like putting the car
              in my parent's zip code instead of my hood location etc.
2005/9/20-21 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:39767 Activity:nil
        \_ "In Soviet Russia, the car drives YOU" -- Is that you ilyas?
2005/9/9-13 [Transportation/Car, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:39606 Activity:moderate
9/9     Small Japanese People making a comeback:
           "In 1981, the average car got 21mpg... Jump ahead 24 years, the
            average car got... 21mpg... vehicles have gotten more fuel
            efficient. It's just that car buyers have wanted other things..."
            \_ I can pesonally attest to the advance in engine technology.
               Thirteen years ago my '84 Jeep Cherokee (115hp) reached the
               100k-mile mark and I was getting ~14mpg.  This June my '96 Jeep
               Cherokee (190hp) also reached the 100k-mile mark, and I'm
               getting ~22mpg.  Both trucks have *identical* bodies, so the
               difference in mpg is all in the drivetrain.  Actually my '96 has
               cruise control and one mandatory airbag, so it probably weights
               more than my '84.
        \_ Not gonna happen. Gas price is going down again. For this to
           happen, you either need a sustained 70s effect, where gas is
           relatively $5-6/gallon. Not gonna happen now. Americans love
           their SUVs.
           \_ The 1981 inflation-adjusted peak gas cost was $2.94.  -tom
              \_ $3.0803 for CA.
                 \_ Whatever, the point is it wasn't $5-$6/gallon back then,
                    and the price had a real effect on car buying.  -tom
           \_ SUV sales are already way down. Someday they will be
              like big station wagons of the 70s are thought of today.
           \_ Americans use far more gas than they did in the '70s.  Inflation
              adjusted price comparisons are kind of bogus.
        \_ nice try.  it won't fly.  most of these car's performance sucks.
           zero-sixty at 15 second range.   American need to have a lot of
           interior room.  None of these car has them.  The two car I know
           that has relatively roomy interior and small in size are
           1. Audi A2, and 2. Opel Melvira
           \_ Also American cities, excluding megaurbans that we know, tend
              to spread out over a large area of land, and Americans
              travel more distance with a greater speed than most of the
              other countries so they prefer big, comfortable cars. After
              getting spoiled for decades, and with loans at all time low,
              it is unlikely Americans will buy something smaller when they
              can obviously take easy loans to get something much better.
              \_ only way to resolve this issue is slap $1 per gallon of
                 federal tax on gasoline (oppose to $0.18 right now).
                 \_ Yes, the solution to any problem is to raise taxes.
                    The government knows best how to spend your money.
                    \_ Instead, we should just get rid of all our taxes
                       because the government doesn't know how to spend
                       our money. In fact, they shouldn't even be spending
                       our money. Stop spending our money to build and
                       maintain our automotive infrastructure, damnit.
                       But I still want to drive my 6000lbs SUV.
                    \_ they do if best is defined in terms of speed or
                    \_ (Note, I'm not arguing pro/con) This is not a
                       revenue-generating tax, although it inevitably turns
                       into one, it's a punitive tax to try and steer
                       peoples' behavior, much like a cigarette tax.  There's
                       a difference.  -John
                       \_ ohh my gosh, John understands me for once.
                         \_ Not really. The government is telling you not
                            to spend your money on gas in that instance.
                            They are thus telling you how to spend
                            your money. The difference is the same.
                            \_ You're an idiot.
                               \_ Insightful.
                               \_ moron would be more exact, but agreed.
2021/12/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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