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2017/10/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/18   

2003/2/12-7/5 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:27381 Activity:insanely high
2/12    A sober reminder: Alqueda are SAUDIS, DUH.  The ppl who were arrested
        for 9/11?  Most were Saudis.  Osama?  Saudi.  Opec led by.. Saudis?
        Oil at $35/barrel.
        \_ What better way to triangulate the Saudis and diminish their
           grip in OPEC by allowing Iraq to produce more oil.  As it
           stands, the U.N. extracts 30-40% of Iraq's oil proceeds
           for administrative purposes.
2003/2/7-8 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:27345 Activity:high
2/7     Was that really anthrax?
        \_ Nope, it was Dubya's jizz.
        \_ Please think before you post next time.  Thanks.
           \_ It's a serious fucking question.  -op
              \_ A fucking question? I thought it was an anthrax question.
              \_ OK, fine.  Do you *really* believe they would bring
                 anthrax?  Anthrax... to the UN?
                 \_ Why not? Anthraxing most of the freeloading
                    UN losers from worthless 3rd world countries
                    which would all be 4th world countries without
                    US monetary support would be a good thing.
2017/10/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/18   

2003/1/20-21 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27156 Activity:insanely high
1/19    CHEW ON THIS by Christopher Hitchens
        http://www.thestranger.com/current/feature2.html
        \_ [formatd was all over this thread]
        \_ I have a lot of respect for Mr. Hitchens, and his
           arguments changed my mind about the war against
           the Taliban. He makes good points, and I will
           chew on them for a while.
        \_ I have a lot of respect for Mr. Hitchens, and his arguments changed
           my mind about the war against the Taliban. He makes good points, and
           I will chew on them for a while.
           \_ Don't you mean war against Islam?
              \_ Let's be honest: what's wrong with a war against Islam?
                 Or my favorite, "this is a war about oil!".  Ok, so what?
                 I can agree to that.  I also have no problem with that.  Go
                 live in a cave for a year and tell me it isn't worth it.  You
                 won't even have a bicycle without oil, much less kuro5hin or
                 slashdot or any of the rest of the leftist too-young-to-get-it
                 net denizens.  Same thing for the Euros who want the yankees
                 go home.  Let em defend themselves with their own budgets.
                 Go read any press in the world.  Read the Arab's own media and
                 they make it clear they consider themselves at war already.
                 \_ It's wrong to kill people to save $0.50 on each gallon
                    of gasoline that you buy.  What is your point about "living
                    in a cave" if we don't get cheap oil?  Americans waste gas.
                    If America wants that, then we should be responsible enough
                    to pay the price and not get it dishonestly from other
                    countries.  Also,  why should young men die to save you
                    a bit of money?  Would you do the same for them?
                    If this is about nuclear weapons, then the situation is
                    different.  But then again,  Bush doesn't have enough
                    credibility to avoid appearing disingenuous.
                        \_ Even if this was just about oil (which it is not),
                           the price of oil doesn't just show up at the pump.
                           Any increase in the price of oil also shows up in
                           every store due to the increased cost of shipping
                           (ground and air). It also shows up in the increased
                           cost of petrochemical products (plastics, etc.).
                           Energy efficiency might offset some of the cost
                           increase, but not all of it. Ultimately the people
                           who end up being affect by higher oil prices are
                           ordinary ave americans (the same ones whose kids
                           are dying for lower oil prices). What it means to
                           these people is colder winters, less presents under
                           the christmas tree, fewer shoter vacations, less
                           \_ "simple decent lifestyle" ha.  Americans are buying
                               SUV's in droves.  They make up like 25% of all
                               new cars.  They are expensive and wasteful.
                               Go over to East Palo Alto.  If you don't see
                               an SUV in the driveway,  it will probably
                                be a Camaro or something.
                                Also,  should American soldiers die for all of
                                this?  I thought they were out to defend freedom
                                Why don't people fucking LIVE closer to work
                                instead of expecting American soldiers and
                                Iraqis to die to maintain their lifestyles?
                           time with their families because of longer hours or
                           multiple jobs. Basically, a complete destruction of
                           of their simple decent lifestyle.
                           \_ "simple decent lifestyle" ha.  Americans are
                              buying SUV's in droves.  They make up like 25% of
                              all new cars.  They are expensive and wasteful.
                              Go over to East Palo Alto.  If you don't see an
                              SUV in the driveway,  it will probably be a Camaro
                              or something.  Also,  should American soldiers die
                              for all of this?  I thought they were out to
                              defend freedom Why don't people fucking LIVE
                              closer to work instead of expecting American
                              soldiers and Iraqis to die to maintain their
                              lifestyles?

                 \_ the US is the largest producer of oil in the world.
                    Also the largest importer.
                    \_ It's politically easier to get oil from Iraq than from
                       drilling off the California coast or some god forsaken
                       patch in Alaska.
                        \_ doofus, those are the wells which are already
                           drilled and producing oil.
                 \_ Because a war about reducing the bottom line for the
                    wealthiest corporations in the world doesn't sound anywhere
                    near as noble as protecting the citizens of this country.
                    Our leaders like to sound very noble.  Especially when
                    they send young, dumb kids into combat situations which
                    their own family was wise or connected enough to keep them
                    out of.
                    \_ Bottom line?  Yawn.  Keep reading the little red book.
                       It's not about corporations.  They don't have a bottom
                       line.  They pass all costs along.  It's about your life
                       style in the short to mid term and your freedom in the
                       long term.
              \_ Actually he means the coming war on Iraq, or should anyway
                \_ No, I mean what I say. He had a big split
                   with The Nation over the war in Afghanistan.
         \_ Wow, I thought C.H. was a big Euro Liberal.  What happened?
            \_ He grew up?
            \_ Hitchens is still a big Euro liberal, but he believes that
               the defining elements of liberalism are a belief in self-
               determination, democracy, freedom of speech, equal rights
               and tolerance for others. He is right on the mark here. He
               also believes that defending these values is more imporant
               than pacifism, or the liberal tendency to try to come to
               non-violent solutions to problems. He states that Islamic
               societies are opposed to everything that liberals hold
               dear, and that a violent aggressive self-defence is
               neccessary to protect ourselves and our values. But there is
               quite a bit of difference between attacking someone who is
               harboring Osama Bin Laden and attacking someone who has done
               nothing to you.
                \_ I guess we should just let them get a nuke and wait for
                   them to use it on New York or Washington or SF before we
                   do something about it.
                   \_ Iraq is not the Cuban Missile Crisis.  They don't have
                      ICBMs.  They don't have nuclear warheads in striking
                      distance of the capitol.  It's yet to be shown that
                      they have nuclear capability at all.  The inspectors
                      are back in.  Let them do their job.
                      \_ so you're saying it's too early to attack when
                         he's just trying to get nukes, and we should wait
                         until he tries for icbm's?
                         \_ If he wouldn't launch chemical warheads on SCUDs
                            at Israel, he's not going to send nukes our way
                            either.  He knows the outcome.
2003/1/17-18 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:27136 Activity:very high
1/16    Wen Ho Lee, spy:http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030117-69476482.htm
        \_ You only say that because you are racist!
           \_ I'm a racist.  He's still a spy.
        \_  "The FBI paid for Mrs. Lee's travel to China with her husband, and
            helped pay entertainment expenses when the couple hosted visits to
            the United States by Chinese nuclear scientists." intersting article
        \_ let's put this to rest
           \_ You don't care that top secret high quality nuclear secrets are
              being stolen by other countries??
        \_ Judge Parker's apology :
           http://www.wenholee.org/Parkerapology.html
           \_ Of course this ignores the entire point of the link which is that
              the FBI intentionally fucked up the case against him so the judge
              didn't have the full body of truth before him when he said this.
              Don't ever let the truth get in the way of your agenda.
        \_ Yea, sure, book by Trulock is going to be so unbiased.
           This guys is just so eager to advance his career, he
           is willing to use Lee as a stepping stone.  Glad that
           it blew up in his face.
           \_ If it's untrue, prove it.  If it's lies, he'll get sued and lose
              which would be terribly stupid of him.
2003/1/13 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:27076 Activity:high
1/12    A unified 'no' to nuclear blackmail (Kissinger on N. Korea)
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/821349/posts
        \_ ohh shut up.  US has the largest stockpile of weapon of
           mass desctruction.  US is the one who have unleash such weapon
           against defendless civilian in the past. US is the one that
           didn't sign universal test ban treaty, didn't sign ban on
           Chemical / Biological weapon's ban. It is *US* who first labeled
           North Korea as member of "axis of evil."  It is *US* who
           decleared that we will pre-emptly invade anyone we want; and it is
           *US* who imposed a crippling economic sanction for the past 50 yrs.
           If I am North Korean government, I would think I am on the top
           of US's target list as well.
           \_ Not a bad troll.  Observe:
              decent show of 'enthusiasm,' strategically placed grammatical
              errors.  Not bad at all.  I give it a B+.
2003/1/13 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:27075 Activity:insanely high
1/12    What your gas dollar really buys:
        http://www.detroitproject.com
        \_ sad thing is they drive cars to work as well
        \_ I vaguely remember once our beloved president once asked us
           to reduce our dependency on foreign oil.  Well, guess what,
           if we actually follow the guide line written by the NSF,
           (25% increase in fuel efficiency on car and light truck)
           we will able to accomplish so.  Then again, the ultimate
           goal should be reduce personal energy consumption, including
           electricity usage, etc.
           \_ Not even close.  The ultimate goal should be to produce
              an unlimited energy resource that allows us to use as much
              power as we want with as little impact on the environment
              as possible.  Conservation is a stop-gap, not an actual
              solution.
              \_ "As little impact as possible" eh?  So even in your
                 ultimate goal the environment isn't all that improtant.
                 If you still don't get it, contrast the goal "use a
                 comfortable amount of power with no impact on the
                 environment".
                 \_ Change the words "no impact" to "little impact", and
                    I'm happy.  "no impact" is just impossible.  Any energy
                    source is going to produce waste heat at the least.
                    \_ Heat death here we come!  Yahoooooo!
              \_ what the hell is wrong with "as little impact as
                 possible?" how freaking stingy are you?
              \_ Yea, but there hasn't been much progress towards our
                 "ultimate goal", so "stop-gap" measures should be in
                 full force.
                 \_ Agreed.
                 \_ No.  Human nature makes it so that nothing will be
                    seriously doing about permanent or at least long term
                    solution as long as people like you keep on cry cry for
                    stop gaps which only prolong the agonies.  Necessity cause
                    innovation.  You only delaying progress.
                    \_ Wow what a cop out!  Human nature....
                    \_ Nah, I am delaying disaster.  Remember the people of
                       Easter Island.
                       \_ What about them?  You saying that you going to
                          \_ Use too much resource.  No innovation.
                             Island becomes wasteland.
                          build much small and more efficient statues?
                          \_ Used and depleted too much resource.  No innovation.
                             Island became wasteland.  Society collapsed.
                             Survivors lived on like wild dogs.
                             \_ I know all that.  I'm trying to figure out how
                                you're going to save us from the same fate. Is
                                it all based on smaller statues?
                                \_ I am not trying to save you, just buy
                                   myself a little more time for "innovation".
              \_ Where will you set up your laboratory to develop this
                 unlimited power source?  I don't think many engineers will
                 "Think of a happy thing" and then head  "2nd star on the right
                 on until morning" - so how will your staff commute to work?
                 Turn off the sci-fi channel, nerd.
                 \_ WTF are you babbling about?  Get off the weed, nuthead.
2003/1/11 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:27062 Activity:nil
1/10    http://news.lycos.com/news/story.asp?section=MyLycos&storyId=621251
        Finally!  Scientific _proof_ of global warming!
2003/1/9-10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:27050 Activity:nil
1/9     psb, go to Bhutan soon.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2641157.stm
2002/12/16 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:26824 Activity:very high
12/15   Green Wealth, Animal Rights Riches
        "The 12 biggest environmental pressure groups in
        the United States enjoy combined annual revenues of $1.95 billion..."
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/807013/posts
        \_ Are you Icelandic or retarded?
        \_your libertarian mouthpiece numbers look like they
          were pulled out of nowhere.  this topis is lame and
          boring anyway.  Damn those all powerful environmentalists,
          trying to save the world!  what a bunch of fucks!
          \_ Yes, damn them!  This planet belongs to us, not our children,
             and we can use it as we please.
          \_ Yup.  and stop blame Chinese being a pollutor.  You guys
             has done 100 years of polluting, now it's our turn.
                                        Chinese Industrialist
2002/12/14 [Science/GlobalWarming, Recreation/Media] UID:26813 Activity:high
12/13   http://www.savefirefly.com
        \_ Why save a piece of shit show?
           \_ Cuz it's neat and you're still a moron.
              \_ No, it sucks and I'm not the person above, either.  You just
                 have no taste and got sucked in by one semi-ok line.
2002/12/11 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:26784 Activity:very high
12/10   Physics question: When one lifts weights, s/he exerts more forces,
        hence the pressure the ground s/he stands on receives more
        pressure.  Is that correct?  My friend tried to tell me it is
        rather because the object (the weights) are moving, it is the
        acceration that translates into greater force hence greater
        pressure.  But shouldn't the object as a whole (the weights +
        the weight lifter) be considered a still object since the area
        touching the ground isn't moving?  Any url reference to this
        would be great.
        \_ pressure is force per area, so if the are is fixed(the area
           of the bottoms of your shoes if you are standing), then the
           force is your weight plus the weight of the weights plus
           the added force from the acceleration of the weights.  this
           added force is the mass of the weights plus your arms(measuresd
           in slugs) times the acceleration you apply.  if you don't bielive
                \_ what do you mean measured in slugs?  It doens't matter
                   what units you use.  English units are confusing.  Best
                   to use kg to measure mass, but slugs will work too.
                   \_ right. i was just making the point that slugs
                      are mass and pounds are force.  IF you use kilograms,
                      you'd better use Newtons, which most people are
                      not familiar with.
           that this aceleration adds force, accelerate the weights as
           fast as you can, and feel the burn in the knees.
           to keep the same force, but change preassure on the floor, just
           change area: stand on tiptoes or sit down.
           \_ You can also do the experiment by lifting dumbbell while standing
              on a bathroom scale.  The reading is roughly the same as the
              force (although expressed in mass units) between your feet and
              the ground when the scale is not there.  Watch the reading
              becomes higher after you grab the dumbbells and hold them steady.
              Then watch the reading changing when you accelerate and
              decelerate the dumbbells in the vertical direction.
           \_ I understand f=ma.  But ultimately, it's the weight lifter
              that needs to exert more force.  The acceration of the
              weights is caused by the extra force the lifter has to put
              out.  My friend's argument is that the accerleration generates
              more force, but isn't it really the oher way around in this
              case?  The fact of the weights moving at an accerlerated speed
              and the greater pressure are both caused by the more force
              exerted from the lifter, no?
              \_ Don't confuse energy and force.  I can slump on the sofa
                 like a big pig not spending a single calorie of energy,
                 but my fat butt would still be exerting a force on the
                 sofa.  Remember Energy = Force x Distance Moved.  I
                 am a lazy bum who don't like to move, and AnyForce x Zero
                 is still equal to Zero.
                 \_ hmm.  I am more confused with weight v.s. force.
                          Isn't weight force in the first place? _/
                    Help me settle the bet here.  My friend's arguement
                    is weight changes as objects are being lifted.  But
                    my argument is it's the force that's changing, not
                    weight.  Isn't weight simply the gravitational pull
                    on the mass?  In this case, aren't both constant?
                    \_ What the bathroom scale usually measures is the
                       gravitational attraction (a force) between your mass
                       and the fat lump of mass we call the Earth.  When you
                       hold onto two dumbbells like some dumb body builder
                       and stand on the bathroom scale, it is now measuring the
                       the gravitational attraction between "your mass
                       plus two dumbbells" and the Earth.  When you are
                       further accelerating the two dumb bells upwards,
                       the bathroom scale is now measuring the above plus
                       an additional force exerted by the accelerating
                       dumbbells on your body.  Remember "Action Reaction".
                       That's why when measuring yourself on a bathroom scale,
                       you try to be naked, so that there isn't any
                       extra mass, and you try not to jump up and down.
                       What your friend refers to as "weight" is what
                       is measured on the bathroom scale.  What you
                       refer to as "weight" is the gravitational
                       attraction between your mass and the Earth's mass.
                       As seen above, the two of you are referring to
                       different things.  The two are only one and the same
                       when you are naked and not jumping up and down.
                       I think I have been trolled.  Oh well.
                    \_ Your friend's thinking is inherently flawed, but explain
                       it to him this way:
                       When you talk about a person's weight, you imply that
                       that person isn't moving.  If he jumps up while on a
                       scale, his "weight" will increase as he jumps up.
                       This is cheating; you take weight when you're standing
                       still.  So you can't be pushing dumbbells while taking
                       your weight.
                       Likewise, you can't raise your arms up and down.  Ask
                       him if his weight is changing when he's pumping his
                       arms or jumping on the scale.
              \_ conservation of angular momentum
                 \_ Huh?
                    \_ Check an elementary physics text.  Or sit on a
                       computer chair, hold a spinning bicycle wheel and
                       twist it.
                       \_ Yeah I know what conservation of angular momentum is,
                          but what does that have to do with the questions in
                          this thread?
        \_ the overall pressure's the same but your feet exert more.
                       \- if you have flies in a jar on a scale
                          the scale wil read the same whether they are
                          sitting on the bottom, the side or flying ...
                          but at lift off it will register more.
                        \- here is a fun problem: you have a uniform gold
                           chain of legnth l ... say 1meter ... with mass
                           m ... say 100 grams. you hold the chain l units
                           above a scale and drop it. so at t0 when you
                           release the chain, the scale reads 0 and at t1
                           then the chain is resting on the scale, it reads
                           m->100g ... plot f(t) between t0->t1 where f(t)
                           is what the scale reads. this might be sort of
                           unkind as an interview problem for a software
                           guy :-)   --psb
                                \_ Birkett demonstrated and then explained
                                   this in class once, but I forgot the
                                   physical basis of it. Can you post it?
                           \_ typical physics h7a homework problem
                                \_ yeah, so typical.
                           \_ Ok, I give up.  What is the solution?
                              I got a big complicated equation
                              ( (7Mggtt)/(2l) ) which I don't think
                              is right.
2002/11/22 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:26595 Activity:nil
11/21   What is the deal with HP abandoning the 32s line of calculators?
        That was the last of the RPN entry scientific calculators. I'm deeply
        upset by this, as I really enjoy using the 32s line of calculators,
        and there is nothing that even comes close from other companies.
        does anyone have any info about this?  I've searched the web, and just
        found links to people selling the 32s as a "collectors item" for
        300 bucks.  this really really sucks.  surely someone must be doing
        something about this.  if not, i will.
        \_ In the age of pda's why do you need a calculator?
           \_ PDAs suck as calculators.  There's something to be said for
              tactile feedback of physical buttons.
              \_ ...and HP has much better buttons than any other calculator
                 maker.
                \_ Agreed
              \_ I have to take you word for it. I made it through school
                 with a cheap casio that someone had chucked in the trash
                 in Betchel.
                 \_ Which model?
                    \_ I Don't remember, it was one of the cheap solar
                       scientific models.
        \_ use a slide rule.  get over your babyish needs for a calculator to
           do the work for you.  you'll never learn that way.
           \_ Have you ever used a circular slide rule? They rock. Compact
              and powerful.
                \_ I just log into soda and
                   use "bc -l".  seriously.
                   \_ obviously not on the 18th at 7 am..
           \_ Back to analog computing?
              \_ "Back to oil and coal are they?" - Salvor Hardin
2002/11/17 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:26569 Activity:very high
11/15   Finally!  The right common sense way for the US to deal with the
        rest of the world.  I'm too young to have voted for him at the time
        but I sure wish the world had more leaders like this.  We need this
        sort of courage in times like these.
        link:timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?artid=28466990
        \_ Like sheep to the slaughter...  It's too bad he wasn't around
           during WWII eh?
           \_ Do you propose then that we openly violate treaties that we
              have signed and expect other countries to follow?
              \_ why propose something that's already being done?
                 \_ Name one.  And don't name the anti-nuke treaty with the
                    Soviets.  There was an 'out' clause built into the original
                    treaty and we legally exited.
                    \_ invasion of Serbia without authorization of UN
                       security consoul for one.  GHB's authorization of
                       invasion of Panama is another.  For the rest, US just
                       pressure other nation to sign but not signing it
                       itself, including Univeral declaration of Women's
                       right, Univeral ban on land mind, biological weapon,
                       and nuclear test.
                       \_ Serbia: say what?  You're insane.  It was a NATO
                          sponsored action.  You know, NATO?  That treaty
                          created org?  Panama?  What treaty was that?  The
                          one where we gave up control of the incredibly
                          important PC to a bunch of third worlders?  And for
                          the rest, if we didn't sign it then we didn't break
                          it.  Your debate fu is weak.  Try harder.  I actually
                          thought you might come up with something but I see I
                          was correct: we didn't break any treaties: you're
                          just spewing your agenda driven ignorance.
        \_ --"For every time an American gives a dollar, a citizen of Norway
           --gives 17 dollars," he [Carter] said."
           I'd love to see the numbers on this.
           \_ And the tax rates.  And how much of American tax dollars have
              gone to keeping Norway a safe place to live.  And how many
              immigrants they allow in and how easy it is to work or get
              citizenship there vs here.
2002/10/17-18 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26232 Activity:high
10/17   Rumsfeld sez: North Korea has Nukyoolar weapons.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2337997.stm
        \_ Someday the words "nuculous" and "nucular" will be in Webster.
        \_ You know, in the past few months, I've heard a number of high-level
           leaders say "Nukular"--members of congress (R and D), military
           leaders, etc.  I've come to accept that it's dialect not intellect.
           \_ But when your speech writer explcitly spells the word "nuclear"
              on a sheet of paper, you would think that the speaker would, at
              least, try to pronounce it phonetically.
              \_ You'd think that but you'd be wrong.  Take a few basic cogsci
                 courses on vision, language, and memory.
              \_ How do you pronounce February?
                 \_ /fEbru3ri/
        \_ I think it's funny all the leftists ragging on Bush for nukular
           when Jimmy Carter (also from the south) was the first President
           to say nukular in a public speech.
              \- er doesnt carter have a phd in nuclear engineering?
                 that may buy him some cover. --psb
           \_ Try Eisenhower.
        \_ note that:
           http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=nuclear
           lists "nukyular" as an acceptable pronunciation.
2002/10/9 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:26136 Activity:nil
10/9
        http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20021009/od_nm/petrol_dc
        what's so illegal about using cooking oil in your car?
        \_ People who use biodiesel they make themselves (namely, poring in
           cooking oil) may potentially cause more pollution.  But
           the real concern is that the guvernment doesnt' get the tax
           on diesel, which is a lot higher in teh UK than the US.
2002/10/2 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:26074 Activity:low
10/2    http://www.whoi.edu/home/about/whatsnew_abruptclimate.html
        Global warming = ice age. Be afraid.
        \_ How is this any more reliable than USA Today or Rosie Magazine?
           \_ WHOI is one the most well-respected academic institutions
              in oceanography in the world. Do you trust scientists not to
              talk out of their asses like the press usually does? I would
              hope so... (at least to some extent)
              \_ as a professional research scientist, I assure you that
                 I *am* part of the giant left-wing conspiracy.
                \_ Relax, the ice age won't be for a few years.
              \_ I'm with you on that one brother!  Scientists have *never*
                 talked out their asses.  I'm still there with the flat
                 earthers, the angels on a pin guys, the unicorn and dragon
                 zoologists, the mice spntaneously appear in dirty rags, the
                 never been on the moon hoaxers, the coming ice agers, the
                 coming flooders, the coming fire stormers, and the scientific
                 creationists.  No sirreebob!  No scientists has ever blown
                 smoke out his ass.  Scientists know everything about
                 everything and have never been wrong in the past or modern
                 times.  Look son, there's nothing magical about a scientist.
                 It's just some guy who knows more about a subject than you
                 probably do but that doesn't mean he knows everything or that
                 he's even at all correct.  The sky is not falling.  The thing
                 reads like an anti-communist scare pamphlet from the 50s.
                 \_ but the sky is falling.  as the earth travels through
                    space in its orbit, it cuts through the sky in a huge
                    2pi(93million miles) long path
                    \_ It's sort of a freaky curved fall, then.
2002/9/6 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:25784 Activity:high
9/5     why attacking iraq is a bad idea:
        http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20020905-24231615.htm
        \_ What is the alternative?  In the very near future an Islamic
           state not aligned to the West will go nuclear - what then?
           Evidence has not been made public, it seems prudent to wait
        \_ What is the alternative?  In the very near future Iraq
           will go nuclear - what then?
           Evidence has not been made public, all of this rhetoric is
           taking place in a vacuum of information.  It seems prudent to wait
           until that time before engaging in conjecture.
           One would think with all of the uproar about the human suffering
           caused by the sanctions, one would want Saddam (along with the
           sanctions) to go.  Of course, there is the very real possibility
           that we are still divying up the spoils of the Cold War.
                \_ they *will* go nuclear.  the question is do they have
                   the *will* to use it.
                   \_ Whether they have the will or not, having a nuke will
                      give them more bargaining power (e.g. "If you attack
                      us, we'll nuke Israel")
        \_ So what if Iraq go nuclear? We can invade a country just because
           he might has nuke sometimes later?  Remember, we are the one
           who used nuke against civilian target in the history of mankind.
2002/9/5 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:25773 Activity:high
9/4     Environmentalist Quotes
        'We, in the green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which
        killing a forest will be considered more contemptible and more
        criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels.'
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/744607/posts
        \_ what's your favorite kind of fishing?
        \_ That's old news.  That's why real conservatives hate you freeper
           types.  You make us all look like looneys with your rehashed ancient
           and extremist quotes.  We all know the extreme left are insane.
           You're just like them but on the extreme right.  You deserve each
           other.  Please go away.  --A Real Conservative (who hates freepers)
2002/8/26 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:25686 Activity:high
8.26    if you're not out conquoring the world then you're wasting your lives
        away.
        \_ Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tomorrow night?
        \_ fuck... if I conquered the world what would I do with it?
           \_ You'd have a place for all of your stuff.
2002/8/19 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:25611 Activity:high
8/19    Everyone dirty with Enron money.  Everyone.
        http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,338580,00.html
        \_ i'm not.
           \_ No, you're just dirty.  -John
           \_ everyone important is.  you're not important.
        \_ That explains why none of Kenny Boy's pals had to do a perpwalk yet
        \_ Are you at all surprised?
           \_ kind of, yes.
2002/8/2 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:25477 Activity:high
8/1     If I want a pendulum of period 1 sec, what is the length I should
        have? I know the gravity and that the pendulum is independent of
        its weight. Thanks!
        \- hello, making some simplifying assumptions, like the moment
           of intertia is about that of a point mass at length l from the
           fulcrum, and angle between the pendulum arm and the vector from
           the funcrum to the center of mass isnt too large then
           T = 2pi sqrt(l/g). Do you need a pendulum with large amplitude?
           Also I assume this is in simple pendulum like a grandfather clock.
           If you have a more complicated object thenthe radius of gyration
           is k = sqrt [moment of intertia(w.r.t. center of mass)/mass] ...
           I assume you know what a moment of inertia is.
           [mnemonic: pi^2 is actually pretty close to the grav acceleration
           at the earth surface ... this is useful if you have to do approx
           on the back of an envelope. so figure a quarter meter. this isnt a
           homewortk problemis it?]
           \_ of course it was a homework problem --!OP
           \_ isn't it easier to just find the
                integration [intergation of (cos Angle)*gravity]*distance  ?
                \- the newtonian approach with some simplifications is not
                   too difficult. a richer approach is the "Highbrow
                   mechanics" which has at it's core the kinetic and potential
                   energy functions rather than the newtonian s''=v'=a func
                   appriach. however you may need a little geometry and some
                   knowledge of elliptical integrals. ok tnx.
                   \_ I found some notes from an old math class with elliptical
                      integrals on it.  I used to know that stuff.  I feel
                      really dumb now.
                      \_ More like your brain has pushed that crap aside for
                         more important things.
2002/7/8 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:25305 Activity:very high
7/6     The sky is falling!  We're all dead by 2050 if we don't colonise *TWO*
        planets by 2050!!!  So says WWF.  So let's see, we ran out of oil about
        15 years ago, the planet froze 10 years ago, 5 years ago we ran out of
        food and clean water.  And now they tell me we'll run out of whatever
        was left by 2050.  Kinda convenient none of them will be around to get
        laughed at in 2051.
        http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,750783,00.html
                \_ relevance? -motd relevance god
        \_ Besides disagreeing on the conclusion, which particular statistics
           in the article did you find untrue?
                \_ I wouldn't trust a scientific study done by the World
                   Wrestling Federation -motd relevance god
                   \_ motd relevance god, you are a hypocrite.
                   \_ Wildlife not Wrestling you troll.
                      \_ There's very little difference - both are shams
2002/7/4-5 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:25279 Activity:very high
7/3     Does anyone still believe the hype around global warming?
        \_ Only econuts like tom and algore.
           \_ or the evil liberal commies on the editorial staff at
              Science and Nature.  of course they don't have the kind of
              rigorous peer review as freerepublic, so I wouldn't trust
              all the hundreds of scientific papers in thosre journals
              documenting human impact on the atmosphere and climate
              change.
              \_ Have you actually read any of the papers on climate
                 modeling and on historical climate trends? If you
                 had you would know that climate change (such as
                 drastic cooling and heating) have been going on for
                 millions of years and that the minor current warming
                 cannot be attributed to humans alone. Most of the
                 evidence (objective) is that the earth is warming on
                 its own and our contribution is not that significant.
                 \_ You fucking idiot!  How dare you bring *FACTS* into a
                    thread on global warming!  The nerve!  Bastard!
                 \_ OK, I'll bite. Please cite bibliographical references
                    to papers that present the relevant data/reasoning in
                    mainstream scientific journals. (I do not mean to assert
                    that you are lying, just want to have a first-hand
                    look at your sources.)
        \_ What a limp attempt at a troll.
           \_ News Flash:  Global Warming causes impotent trolls.
        \_ So why have atmospheric temperatutes FALLEN in the past 25 years?
           And ZERO models predict / include the existence of El Nino...
           just for starters.  As admitted by EU Bereaucrats, Kyoto
           was an attempt handcuff US business - go Al GORE.
           \_ Oh please, like you didn't know Al and his pals are heavily
              invested in EU companies.
           \_ ZERO models, huh?  That's pretty interesting because my ex's
              father does long term weather prediction, and his group
              predicted El Nino several years in advance.  Where are you
              getting YOUR information from?
2002/6/10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:25054 Activity:nil
6/9     learn the *truth* behind the environmental movement!  exxon is
        your friend, learn how!  http://www.undueinfluence.com
2002/5/22 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24916 Activity:nil
5/22    Renewable Energy? Not in Ted's backyard. Where's Al when we need him?
        http://www.capecodonline.com/special/windfarm/kennedyaims15.htm
2002/5/13-14 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24813 Activity:very high
5/13    "Expert Warns World Warming Faster Than Expected"
        http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=585&ncid=753&e=1&u=/nm/20020513/sc_nm/environment_climate_dc_1
        \_ oh no what are we to do oh-so wise tree-hugger? Not live our life
           to the fullest? You are all are a bunch of hypocrites. If you want
           to do something truly enviromental - kill yourself and recycle your
           body for compost. because you are goign to have kids, and those
           kids are going ot have kids, and all the resources to raise those
           kids will surpass any effort you make to "save the earth"
           \_ a touch presumptive.  many people (yourself excluded) are quite
              aware of something called birth-control, and the zero-growth
              movement.
              \_ plus carpooling, driving more efficient cars, public transit,
                 turning off the PCs and lights when you leave your office,
                 buying green electricity instead of from PG&E, etc., which
                 also help conserve oil at the same time.  Killing two birds
                 with one stone.
                 \_ no matter how much you conserve, you'd still be using
                    fewer resources if you dropped dead right now.  you're
                    pretty much a net negative the moment the sperm hits the
                    egg.  might as well end it now.
           \_ Tell this to the Indians.
           \_ Without us tree-huggers, your life to the fullest will not be
              as full, simply put.
              \_ without you tree-huggers I'd have a 6 liter/500 HP V8 in my
                 car, gas would cost $0.30/gallon (we'd be drilling everywhere
                 oil is), and power would be almost free (because we would
                 have lots of dams and nuclear power plants). I'd be leading
        \_ 1975 Newsweek article on global COOLing.
           http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/661876/posts
                 a much "fuller" life without arbitrary limits imposed by
                 tree-hugging technology stifling wakkos.
                 \_ Perhaps I should have phrased more clearly: If we tree-
                    huggers all stop hugging trees and instead behave the same
                    way as you do, your life to the fullest will not be as
                    full.
                 \_ for, oh... 30 years?  maybe?  if you're extremely lucky...
                    \_ malthus and his band of chicken littles have been
                       crying wolf for how many years now?  there's still
                       plenty of food and other resources.  when were we
                       supposed to run out of oil again?  discovering more
                       of that stuff all the time, if only the tree-huggers
                       would let us drill for it.  if we were really running
                       out of oil, we'd come up with an alternative.  the
                       problem is that there is really no problem.
        \_ Its great that the temp. is going up, its too fricking cold right
           now. The only part that gets me is that I'll be dead by the time
           it gets nice and warm (2080). At least my kids will be able to
           enjoy it.
           \_ I second that.  Here in the upper midwest, we all do our
              best to contribute to global warming because we believe
              it will make the weather here more like that of California,
              and California's weather more like that of Arizona.
              \_ Arizona is no good. California should be more like Hawaii,
                 warm water, warm weather, plentiful beaches...
        \_ 1975 Newsweek article on global cooling.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/661876/posts
2002/5/9 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24773 Activity:nil 61%like:24780
5/9     Where's twohey going to? -twohey #1 fan

5/      Ice melts.  End of world near.
        http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?u=/ap/20020509/ap_wo_en_ge/us_new_iceberg_1&printer=1
        \_ it's only the shelves that are breaking up.
2002/5/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24772 Activity:high
5/8     So how'd that anti-nuclear 80's style teach-in/propoganda-session go?
        Did you solve the nuclear crisis?  I hope you figure it all out before
        the Berlin Wall comes down or something....  For some reason, Cyndi
        Lauper lyrics are now floating through my head... ah the 80s....
        \_ Goes well with the deficit spending and draconian statements from
           the president, doesn't it? It was a $600 toilet seat on a P3
           Orion in 1982. What will it be this time, I wonder, now that the
           military procurement is having a new dawn?
           \_ girls just waaaaaaanna have fuuuuuuuun, oh yeah girls just wanna!
           \_ hehehe.
           \_ So the anti-nuke thing went poorly, I see.  1982... I remember
              1982.  That was the year all the contracts signed in the late
              70s came due and delivered those toilet seats and hammers.
              Good call but isn't it too easy to bash on the Carter folks?
              Hey, got any quotes for us from Reagan?
              \_ not all DOD mioney is wasted.  I work 80 hours a week
                 for 18k/yr of DOD money doing research that I think is
                 important for America(trying to build a quantum
                 computer.)  that should make up for a couple
                 toiled seats.
              \_ yeah, because all those contractors love waiting 3 years
                 to get paid on their invoices.
                 \_ silly child, they got paid in 79, the items were found in
                    a Reagan administration sponsored audit.  Gotta keep your
                    agenda nice and shiny, all facts to the contrary, eh?
              \_ Sorry, what did toilet seats and hammers mean?
                 \_ It's the name of my new band. You're playing drums.
                 \_ Purchased when?  Discovered by whom?  Thank you for
                    playing.  You were 2 when this happened.  You can't be
                    expected to know the facts.
2002/5/8-9 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24769 Activity:very high
        5-7 pm
        Upper Sproul Plaza
        1.Wednesday 5/8: UNIV. OF MASS DESTRUCTION?: DISMANTLING THE UC
        WAR MACHINE
        Why does the University of California manage the only two labs in
        the country that conduct research regarding the massive US
        nuclear stockpile?
        Every nuclear weapon in the US arsenal was designed and tested by
        the UC. Under the Bush Administration, how much more destruction
        will the UC manage?
        Wednesday, May 8 5-7 pm Upper Sproul Plaza
        \_ You're right we should have some stoners at Florida State do all
           the research.  Good idea.  And as was said previously there has been
           *ZERO* nuclear destruction post WW2 (thats another thread).  There
           have been *ZERO* nuclear strikes.  Maybe you live on another planet
           where it is better that the Florida State stoners keep track of
           things and tell us how to best maintain and dispose of them with
           least risk to the environment.  Woo hoo!  Go Florida State U! FSU!
           \_ except for those tests all over the pacific. not to mention
              south asia. it's not about strikes.  it's about universal
              blackmail, and unthinkable prospects for our future.
              \_ you mean the tests that are now 100% computer simulations?
                 the ones only a place like LLBL could do?  And maybe you
                 failed to notice any major wars on this planet since 1945?
                 Dude, you're seriously living in the 1980s.  Nukes in the
                 hands of the world's major powers are one of the smallest
                 concerns the human race has today.  Live in the now, not the
                 1980s.  So retro... I love the motd.
                 \_ and maybe YOU failed to notice the tit for tat tests
                    india and pakistan set off last year.  god.  how 'bout
                    instead of living ignorantly in the now, you pay a
                    little bit of attention.
                    \_ Oh?  I wasn't aware that UC is in charge of the Indian
                       and Pakistani nuclear stockpiles....  You're right. I
                       am ignorant and I apologise for not knowing something
                       like that.  I'll pay better attention in the future to
                       which countries UC is doing nuke work for.
                       \_ You're not even worth the time to say this, but the
                          drive of the original post is that the don't want
                          the UC to be supporting the nuclear capability of
                          the country.  they're not suggesting they shift it
                          to another school.  they're suggesting that if the
                          government feels nuclear maintenance is necessary,
                          they should do it their own damn self, and the UC
                          should swear it off.  get your head out of that
                          pig's ass.
2002/5/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24712 Activity:high
5/4     Every nuclear weapon in the US arsenal was designed and tested by
        the UC.  Under the Bush Administration, how much more destruction
        will the UC manage?
          Wednesday, May 8 5-7 pm Upper Sproul Plaza
        Speakers: Andrew Page - N. California political director,
        California Peace Action Inez Sunwoo - student organizer,
        California Peace Action Tara Dorabji - community organizer,
        Tri-Valley CAREs (Communities Against a Radioactive Environment)
        and other speakers with special guests Drew Dellinger La Paz
        Veronica Black
          Sponsored by Student Peace Action Network, Stop the War
        Coalition, East Bay Peace Action
        *free event; wheelchair accessible for more info contact
        valeriekao@hotmail.com
        \_ Oh no! What do we do? Go back to the stoneage and gather food right?
           Dumbasses. Get your head out of your ass, you can't stop progress.
           Oh and by the by.. just FYI there has NEVER been an "arms"reduction
           treaty that reduces the number of WARHEADS, just the launchers. So I
           hope you sleep better knowing those numbers Bush is floating around
           of 1k-2k warheads just means operational launchers and warheads.
        \_ Stupid peacenik. If not for the "bomb" we'd all be speaking
           russian right now (at least those of us who weren't stuck in
           a siberian gulag).
           \_ "peacenik"... "we'd all be speaking russian right now"...
              The irony. -geordan
        \_ I can answer your question right now without all the idiotic
           propaganda.  Under the Bush administration, there will be just as
           much nuclear destruction managed by UC as under all previous
           administrations combined.  That is to say: none.  Perhaps you were
           too busy with your most recently acquired bowl to notice but there
           hasn't been any nuclear missiles launched on this planet.  Ever.
           The sum total destruction of all nuclear missiles on this planet is
           zero.  So, when can we hook up, share a bowl, go 420 and feel the
           good vibes we'll get from this teach-in?  I love a good teach-in.
           You know why?  Easy chicks.  Just go slack jawed and repeat all the
           crap they spew (just like ass kissing your profs) and you're in.  I
           wonder if Valerie Kao is a hottie, or maybe Tara or Veronica could
           use a good fucking.
           \_ why don't you ask her? her email is right there.  You up for
              it stud?
        \_ so, without attacking the assumption that we NEED to have nuclear
           weapons development and testing managed by someone, wouldn't it be
           better to have it be a more publicly accountable public institution
           like the UC than some shady defense contractor?  Whats so wrong
           with UC managing the development labs?
           \_ also, theres's alot of great basic research at lbl and llnl
              that gets done under the guise of weapons research.  i think
              your average congressman is dumb enough to believe that
              the ALS is somehow going to be used as a weapon one day.
              in reality, this basic research will lead to technology
              that will allow the American economy to be strong and to
              maintain our standard of living.  if calling it weapons research
              is the only way to get the morons in congress to pay for
              future American prosperity, so be it.
                 -physicist, and former lbl employee
2002/5/3-5 [Computer/SW/Languages, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24687 Activity:high
5/2     Math people: if I have a password generator that doesn't generate
        any collsions in 1,000,000 runs, is there a way to estimate a lower
        bound on the size of the space with a certain confidence?
        \_ yes.  Lower bound of 1,000,000.
        \_ You expect a collision at about \sqrt{n} trials, if there are
           n elements in your space. See birthday paradox. -chialea
           \_ What chialea means to say is that, if you trust it to be using
              reasonably strong random bits (which aren't, for instance, cyclic
              and loop in a cycle of length 1,000,001), there's good reason
              to expect the space size to be >=1e12. However, there are
              many real-world issues that would make this analysis null and
              void, and to actually get statistical confidence intervals
              on it, you'd need to assume quite a bit about the world, and
              then talk to somebody who knows more statistics than I. -alexf
              \- hola i havent done the math but is there a rule of thumb
              that says "for n buckets with equal/indep probability, the
              number of instaces to have say 50% collsions is some f(n)"?
              withthe birthday problem it's 365 with close enough to
              equal probability to hit 50% collision chance at 24 or 28
              [i forgot the number] ... i am wondering about a rule of
              thumb like the "rule of 70" on interest rate doubling, or
              say even stirling formula for n! --psb
              \_ I found a web page that said it's about 1.2*sqrt(n).
                 Using Stirling's formula and a Taylor series for ln,
                 I get that the constant in front is sqrt(2*ln(2))
                 which is about 1.1774. Details left to the reader -lewis
                 \_ URLp
                 \_ constants are for sissies
              \_ Thanks alex, that's indeed what I meant. I blame it all on
                 e190! -chialea
2002/5/1 [Science/GlobalWarming, Recreation/House] UID:24648 Activity:nil
4/30    http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~wilensky/network-charging.html
        \_ isn't it ironic that as a professor who should be worried about
           papers, research, publications, and funding, wilensky has to deal
           with stupid administrative issues?
           \_ No.  As someone who has staffed for Cal Professors it doesn't
              hurt to drag them into the real world every few years to remind
              them how resource allocation works beyond their office door.  He
              didn't write this himself anyway.  He told someone else to.
           \_ Further, it is his job as vice chair in this area --jon
2002/4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24497 Activity:high
4/19    Please accept my apology for believing and posting to the motd
        everything I've posted for the last year or so.  After reading this
        link I now truly understand the way the world really is.
        http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/plot.html
        \_ Go stick your head in a pig.
           \_ You know "they" are coming for you.  From the same folks you
              can find out how the Israeli government at all levels is engaged
              directly in the white slave trade from the former soviet states.
        \_ You obviously have not spent enough time reading this guy. It is
           not the Isrealis, it the FreeMasons. No, its the Catholics. Wait
           not the Isrealis, it's the FreeMasons. No, it's the Catholics. Wait
           it's the Illuminatis. Maybe NATO is in on it, too.
           \_ I read it all.  It's all true!
2002/4/18 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24485 Activity:nil
4/18    secure data vault vs carnivore?  Does this make any real world sense?
        http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,51917,00.html
2002/3/26 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24236 Activity:very high
3/26    I was opposed to sending European "observers" to Israel until I saw
        this.  I've done a 180.  We need to send *lots* of Europeans there.
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20300-2002Mar26.html
        \_ They will need guns. Lots of guns.
        \_ So you like seeing unarmed peace keepers killed, is that what
           you are saying?
           \_ 1) you can't keep the peace (peace keepers, yes?) if you're not
              armed or otherwise able to enforce 'peace' through some means.
              They are not 'peacekeepers', they are 'observers'. 2) no, I like
              seeing know-nothing meddlers get what they deserve.  Don't stick
              your hand in boiling water if you don't want to get burned. It's
              generally a Good Thing(tm) when noisy powerless Europeans get
              re-taught the ancient lessons life has to teach.
              \_ I'm hoping that Isreal will be forced to prove it is a
                 nuclear power so we can get the whole Armageddon cult mass
                 death thing going.
                 \_ If they weren't 1973 wouldn't have been the last time the
                    Arabs invaded.
                    \_ Yeah, but Sharon is nuts enough to use them on Iraq
                       or Iran. Plus I just bought some new Nikes!
                 \_ I was hoping the Pakistani and Indian governments would go
                    for it so we'd have a modern example of why nuclear
                    weapons are bad and there'd be political will to finally
                    get rid of them globally in a real way.  Unfortunately I
                    think this would also lead to even louder and larger
                    anti-nuclear energy protests which will make meeting our
                    long term planetary energy needs more difficult in the
                    coming years.  --still hoping for cold fusion
              \_ You are a pampered suburban CS student who knows nothing
                 about "ancient lessons life has to teach." Leave life to
                 those with the courage and conviction to actually lead it
                 and take your hollow nihilism back to Quake III, where
                 it belongs.
                 \_ Well, no, actually, you're wrong.  How's that for a stupid
                    response to your stupid statement?  Now we're even.
2002/3/11-12 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24074 Activity:moderate
3/11    When a nuke hits SF, *this* happens:
        http://pbs.vicinity.com/pbs/blast.hm?SEC=25pressure&AD2=&AD3=sf%2Cca&AD4=U.S.&x=40&y=16
        [ this is for your amusement.  it is not a troll.  it is not a
          political statement.  it has no other meaning, value, or content. if
          you see more to this than the mere information go seek help ]
        \_ yeah and so what you greenpeace beatnik throwback? Genie is out of
           bottle. if you don't like it, go back to scavenging for food. this
           is progress. man's M.O. is monopolizing scarce resources for himself
           \_ Bad Troll. No cookie.
           \_ Go home you fake peacenik.  This isn't 'progress' as you pretend
              to claim.  This is way fucking cool.  Where else can you see on
              something on the net with a phrase like, "Ninety-eight percent
              of the population within this area are dead"?  Sweet.  Plug in
              your favorite city and see who dies!
              \_ neat or not neat, it's 50 year old technology, and all
                 the mathematics of death associated with it was worked out
                 and published decades ago.  of course if you never read
                 anything that's not on the net, i guess you can be
                 impressed.
                 \_ Dummy, it's hooked up to mapquest so you get to see the
                    tonnage on your local area.  WTF is wrong with people like
                    you?  Yes dummy I know the technology and numbers were
                    worked out years before yermom was born.  That isn't the
                    cool part. Stupid loudmouth know nothing ignorant jerks....
                    \_i'm just sick of all the motd assholes who demand a
                      reference for something, and then just ingnore you
                      when you supply a written reference that would actually
                      require a trip to the library.  fucking stupid ass
                      webmonkey motherfuckers.  oh, yeah.  go fuck yourself.
                      \_ look genius, this has *nothing* to do with info you
                         can get in a library.  I can not get info from a
                         library that says what'll happen if I drop a nuke
                         on Walnut Creek, Santa Clara, Fremont, or a long list
                         of other fun places.  stop taking crack.
        \_ This is silly. I'd aim for the Valley, like Christopher Walken
           in that bond movie. Destroying MAE-WEST would be bad, right?
2002/3/10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:24070 Activity:nil
3/9     "full spectrum deterrence"
        http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-030902bombs.story
        \_ dont' see why not.  afterall, we have used nuclear weapon against
           civilian in the past.
        \_ NO NUKES! NUKES R BAD! EMP WILL DESTROY MY 200 GB PORN AND WAREZ
           COLLECTION!
        \_ Maybe its not for real:
           http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20020220/pl_usatoday/3875465&printer=1
2002/2/28 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23992 Activity:high
2/27    Finally, some transparency
        http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/02/27/energy.task.force/index.html
        \_ Boring.  We already know all this stuff.
2002/2/17 [Science/Space, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23899 Activity:nil
2/16    America's laser of death cleared for take-off
        Exactly what problem do you have with this - its the
        airborne chemical laser?
        http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/629499/posts
2002/2/9-10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23828 Activity:high
2/09    Grey Davis ah your loved DEMOCRAT, supporting the loved democrat party
        which supports people rather than business. And who most importantly
        replaced Wilson.
          Just read an article very close to my heart which clearing
        indicates that Davis is a fucking idiot and should at least make
        you think twive when deciding who to vote for- and yes the
        upcoming gov election IS HUGE
          Power crises- in relation to renewable energy
          Davis created a special agency to go out and secure power
        contracts because the current utilities could not do so.
        Additionally he setup a action plan to subsidize the building of
        billions of $$$ of plants
          An auditor just recently went through some of the facts. "green"
        energy accounted for only 230/12,000 megawatts additionally it is
        widely believed that renewable sources of energy are moe
        expensive- the auditor found that the prices paid for the 230
        were actually LESS than fossil based.
          But wait there is more. The state sent out letters to all the
        producers saying if you build it we will come. So there was a big
        rush to build renewable sources of energy ( well at least to "get
        ready" building something is a long long process ) but when the
        renewable sources said OK I'm all ready to go but I need the
        power contract so that you will buy the energy my plant produces-
        California backed out and left all the renewable guys holding the
        bag because they blew all their money with contracts to the
        fossil based corps. Even worse there is a 2.5 megawatt plant in
        orange county which even during the darkest time fo the crisis
        COULD NOT EVEN SELL its power to california.
          So now California is sueing the likes of "republican" enron
        trying to convice the puiblic it was all enrons fault, it was all
        the republicans faults, it was all Wilsons fault ( now I have no
        love for wilson either ).  When in reality it was Davis' fault
        for simply mismanaging the whole affair.
          This is the problem with the political battleground. You can't
        believe anything you hear. Its is all hypocracy. Double-talk.
        From all sides of the fence.
          I go on facts- or at least try. And the facts prove that Davis
        robbed the bank more then even the worst eron exec. He shelled
        out 43Billion in energy contracts to big business and didn't
        leave a penny for renewable sources. Even worse he led them on
        with hopes of funding only to pull the plug......
          Now I am not even going to discuss how he hired his brother to
        manage this whole thing and signed him to a contract paying him
        300K.yr or how he hired some chick out of UCLA to a 5yr contract
        paying like 230K/yr the list goes on and on.
        \_ And he took 110,000$ from Enron.  Wilson warned in his
           farewell speech that the bipartisan deregulation
           plan was flawed, and designed only a step towards
           full deregulation.  Davis completely ignored this.  Californians
           will be paying for his "solution" big time over the
           next ten years.
        \_ I think pete wilson shares a lot of blame for the
           pseudo power crisis, but it doesn't matter does it,
           since he's not running for anything anymore.
2002/2/9-10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23827 Activity:high
2/9     why have world championship competitions when the olympics
        exist?  are these world championships held yearly?
        \_ since the only spectator sports i would care about are sheephearding
          and skateboarding, neither of which is an olympic sport, i
          would say it's a moot point.
          \_ skateboarding is so much more fun to actually do than to watch.
             sheepherding, i've no clue about.
        \_ Most Olympic sports do not hold world championshiops during Olympic
           years.
2002/2/3 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23763 Activity:nil
2/3     For the Greens
        http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/621002/posts
2002/1/9-10 [Science/GlobalWarming, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:23512 Activity:very high
1/9     About fuel-cell automobiles, since it runs on hydrogen, where does
        the hydrogen come from?  Thx.
        \_ fuel-cells don't run on hydrogen.
           \_ some do, some don't.
           \_ Yes, they do.  And it is either re-refined from gasoline
              or natural gas, or by a number of other processes external
              to the system.
              http://www.fuelcells.org/whatis.htm
              \_ So since producing hydrogen requires energy from other
                 sources, fuel cells don't really solve the energy problem,
                 right?
                 \_ Well, they are up to 3 times more efficient than ICE
                    on the same fuels, so they help.  and efficiency is
                    a high priority in the research, rather than maximization
                    of oil profits, so the attitude alone helps.  Also,
                    emissions are much lower on the same fuel, which also
                    helps.  No, it doesn't "solve" the "energy problem", but
                    ... it helps.
        \_ The sun.
        \_ honda is coming out with hybrid civics for $20k in march.
           \_ How many MPG does it get?
                \_ Make any car small enough to carry on your bike and it'll
                   get great gas mileage.  Earlier electrics and some hybrids
                   were rejected because they were too small to drive safely
                   on the highways.  They couldn't be any bigger without
                   losing most of their efficiency.  When I can get a hybrid
                   or eletric or whatever car that doesn't weigh less than I
                   do I'd consider one.
                   \_ I was just wondering how it'll compare to the Insight
                      and the 5-seat Prius.
        \_ Isn't hydrogen flammable? Hindenberg car?
           \_ Isn't gasoline flammable?
           \_ The Hindenberg caught fire because of flammable paint, not
              hydrogen.
              \_ This doesn't negate the fact that hydrogen is indeed
                 cumbusts with air.
                 \_ "cumbusts"... too much porn on the brain.
                 flammable.  You get a nice little explosion when it
                 combusts with air.  [spellingd was here]
                 \_ pr0n aside, one of the big challenges w/ using H directly
                    is finding a stable enough matrix to make it safe and
                    cheap to store (no crazy supercooling, etc).  I've seen
                    several avenues of exploration using a variety of
                    stable chemical compounds (using, boron I think) that are
                    subsequently mixed with something to release the 'stored'
                    H which is then 'burned' 'on demand' for energy.  -mice
                    \_ Can we store hydrogen on vehicles same way as propane
                       (or is it butane) vehicles?  Propane is also gas and it
                       explodes, but people seem to think propane vehicles are
                       safe.
              \_ More specifically, with what we now call solid rocket fuel.
           \_ don't most metals absorb hydrogen readily, making them brittle?
2001/12/31 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23416 Activity:very high
12/30   Indians only days away from full mobility.  Pakistan mobile now and
        might launch first strike.  Both sides moving missiles near front.
        Stop deleting this.  Nuclear war is just as important as an arcade
        in the South bay: a post you didn't delete.
        \_ personally, i never delete posts, but i can see their point.
           there are thousands of news sources out there a click away
           with every different viewpoint, language, and depth of detail,
           and hundreds of places this can be debated online. political threads
           like this on the motd usually end up as heated debates of very
           long posts between just two people, which are not fun to read.
           since most of us read the motd for fun, that means your post
           sucks.
        \_ A nuclear conflict there might not be so bad.  Their limited
           capability means the damage will be constrained within
           Asia.  A war can semi-permanently set back both countries and
           possibly China, which might not be a bad thing.  India, although
           currently it pretends to be pro-US, eventually will become a bigger
           threat with a more functional government and military and less
           fondness for western ideas.
           \_ Not so bad?  You are such a humanitarian...
           \_ Yawn. This has been going on in Korea for 50 years.
        \_ Hey, thanks for the news!  Now that the motd's turned into World
           News Now, I don't have to go to the effort of firing up my Web
           browser.  Now, *does* anyone have the address of a good arcade in
           the South Bay?  If we're all going to be annihilated in a nuclear
           firestorm, I wanna go out having the most fun that a CS major can
           have!
2001/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23410 Activity:very high
12/30   The idiocy of the SDI thread is here the assumption that our
        enemies will be using missiles.  Class dismissed.
        \_ Right, and thats why the Russians had 10,000 nuclear
           missiles?  I nominate you for Secretary of Defence.
        \_ That, and a startling 50% success rate at shooting down missiles
           when we know where they're coming from, where they're headed, and
           when they've been launched....  --erikred
           \_ It's okay to "experiment" with the Great Society and entitlement
              programs until the end of time, but a horrendously technically
              complex proposition like NMD has to work its first time out of
              the box, skipping right over the "development" and "testing"
              phases?
              \_ As for the first, nice troll, and as for the second, it
                 makes sense to expect a workable demonstration of the
                 prototype before one invests the billions intended. A 50%
                 success rate does not make the grade. --erikred
              \_ Can't we just give the tax money directly to the
                 Republican party donors and skip the pretense?
                 \_ I believe that's the stage we're in now, isn't it?  Do you
                    see any large scale deployment or production?
        \_ Right, and thats why the Russians had 30,000 nuclear
           warheads?  I nominate you for Secretary of Defence.
        \_ Yes the enemy could use other things to kill people as well so we
           shouldn't defend against this one thing at all.  Makes sense.  You
           win the Big Doofus Blue Ribbon.  Sober drivers kill people with
           bad driving every single day!  Stop the anti-drunk-driving campaign
           now!  We're wasting our time on drunk drivers when sober drivers
           are killing our children!  Do it for the children!  You're an
           idiot unworthy of the Troll Cookie Award.
           \_ too dumb to get the point.  Our enemies will deliver a bomb
              along with all the bales of smuggled pot.  Or a boat or a plane.
              Not a missle, for which SDI has limited applications (non cruise)
              \_ So you're in touch with the inner workings of the North Korean
                 government?  Have you let our government in on your deep
                 access to this incredibly valuable and secret information?
                 You also know the same about the Iraqi, Iranian, and Chinese
                 governments?  They're all smuggling bombs in to the US via
                 pot bales?  There's a job waiting for you in the CIA.
2001/12/9-10 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23194 Activity:nil
12/9    congrats to tw for winning the first world cyber games held in kr.
        \_ world... cyber games?!? are these the same folks who tried to
           convince the world that Quake was a sport?
2001/12/6 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23164 Activity:very high
12/5    It's time for another heating cost poll.  At what temperature are
        you setting your heater this winter?  After the debacle earlier this
        year, I shut off my furnace entirely.  It's about 54 degrees in my
        house and I wear winter clothing.  PG&E bill about 40 bucks a month.
        \_ on the eest kost landlords usually pay for heat. our heat is oil,
        and i just crank it all the way up.  we don't have a thermostat
        that works, though, so this means random fluctualtions in temperature
        from too hot to fucking freezing.
        \_ I live in Fremont and I don't use the gas furnace at all, not even
           the pilot light.  I have a gas water heater and a gas dryer.  The
           PG&E bill for gas and electricity is about $20 for two persons.
           If I line-dry my laundry it'd even be cheaper, but I'm too lazy to
           do that.  BTW I get my electricity from CommonWealth Energy which
           uses 100% renewable sources.
        \_ i still believe all the alternative energy companies
           use the same grid as pg&e and they can't really control
           what source of energy they get their power from, but
           feel free to prove me wrong.
           \_ At least CommonWealth Energy gives 5% discount over the PG&E
              rate.
           \_ when i said our heat is oil, i mean that there is physically
              a tank of oil in our basement that is burned to generate heat,
              not that oil is used to generate electricity to use for heat.
        \_ The hallway thermostat is 72. the living room gas heater on high.
        \_ 68F when occupied, 40F when not occupied.
        \_ ha bay area does not get that cold!
        \_ Just keep yourself warm by lift weights every few hours.
           \_ Or simply wear a jacket.
2001/11/22-23 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23082 Activity:high
11/22   http://www.techcentralstation.com/EnviroScienceTechnology.asp?id=99
        On global warming.
        \_ "energy use is essential to eradicating poverty that is
            destructive to humankind and the earth." ?!?
           "We are grateful that longevity, human welfare and the
            environment have improved dramatically in the 20th century." ?!
           OK, the lady's a complete idiot.
2001/11/14 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:23038 Activity:nil
11/14   http://globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP111B.html
2001/11/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:23012 Activity:very high
11/12   http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml
        For those who still think he didn't admit to anything and the US needs
        "proof" of something.
        \_ How convenient.  It's not there.
           \_ Works fine for me.     -mice
           \_ IE takes awhile to render the page.  give it a minute.
           \_ Yes, I fabricated a bad link to prove something.  Me and Elvis
              (from his spaceship) and the CIA are in cahoots to fool you by
              posting bad links.  It's there.
2001/11/2 [Health, Science/GlobalWarming, Health/Skin] UID:22909 Activity:nil
11/1    Dude isn't there a strong resemblence between Mohamed Atta and Tawei?
        \_ both seem to have disappeared from the face of the earth.
           \_ % last -1 tawei
   tawei            ttyBO    http://ixix.com         Thu Nov  1 13:58 - 15:35  (01:36)
              % last -1 atta
   wtmp begins Sat Oct 27 15:04:06 PDT 2001
2001/9/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:22499 Activity:insanely high
9/17    A word from the next generation.  Berkeley HS students speak:
http://www.alamedatimesstar.com/S-ASP-Bin/Ref/Index.asp?PUID=609&Indx=1090676
        \_ Ahh, the virtues of the modern PC public school system,
           teaching our youth first and foremost to be victims and
           teaching first and foremost our youth to be victims and
           dependent on the federal government.
           \_ Nah, they're just too young to understand the seriousness
              of it all.  It's the self-centeredness that hits most
              teenagers at some point in their lives.
              \_ Yup.  Wait till their sweetie boyfriends/girlfriends are
                 killed by terrorists and then see what they say.  It's
              place without 5 billion people).
                \_ so much for the belief that all men are created equal.  Guess
                   those 5 billion people are less equal?
                 depressing to see how self-centered teenages are these days.
                 I have cousins in a top-rank high school, and they drive me
                 crazy.
                 I have cousins in a top-rank high school, and their lack of
                 concern on others drives me crazy.
                 killed by terrorists and then see what they say.
           \_ aah the virutes of cointelpro.  tell me, do you really
              believe, that you could prove, in a court of law, that
              afghanistan is responsible?  Will the surrender of
              afghanistan stop terrorism?
              (caveat; but then again the world would be a better
              place without 6 billion people).
                   \- this is kind of the ultimate in ratcheting --psb
              place without 5 billion people).
                \_ so much for the belief that all men are created equal.  Guess
                   those 5 billion people are less equal?
                   \_ i think the total world's population is 5 billion.
                      \_ World population is 6B. There are 1B muslims.
                   \- this is kind of the ultimate in ratcheting --psb
2001/9/17 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:36326 Activity:nil
9/16    Nuclear missile / terrorist nuclear bomb will be used:
        Within a year: .
        < 2 years:
        < 4 years:
        < 10 years:
        >= 10 years: ..
2001/9/16 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:22484 Activity:nil
9/15    Anyone interested in a small nuclear reactor?
        http://www.uic.com.au/nip60.htm
2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:22424 Activity:nil
9/12    A decent article from a non-US source:
        http://rediff.com/news/2001/sep/12anil.htm
2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:36275 Activity:nil
9/12    Poll:
        hijack, bomb, etc will continue:         ...
        this is the least horrific of the upcoming atrocities: .
        this is the last of the American terror:
        will be last if wipe out all terrorist completely -
        and destroy any new ones immediately:    ..
        will be last if have one world governnment, put a mark
        on every person in the world to identify and locate everyone 100% of
        the time and track them:                 .
        \_ You sound like a terrorist to me.  Unless you can prove
           otherwise, I'll have to wipe you out.
           \_tell that to the European Union, they'll do that one day
2001/9/11 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:36263 Activity:nil
9/11    Can we just fucking invade and bomb  somebody?  Anything to show that
        American can still kick ass and bomb people back into the stone age.
        Our nuclear weapons will expire soon, we better use them and not let
        them go to waste.  I say we start with the muslim countries.  Starting
        with A to Z.  Afghanistan.
2001/9/10-11 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:22373 Activity:moderate 50%like:21470 50%like:22630
9/10    What the fuck? The MOTD has been awfully bland and sparse lately.
        \_ In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been
           granted the role of entertaining man in his hour of maximum boredom.
           I do not shrink from this responsibility -- I welcome it.
           I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other
           people or any other generation.
           The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor
           will light our motd and all who read it -- and the glow from that
           fire can truly light the world.
           And so, my fellow Sodans:
           Ask not what the motd can do for you;
           Ask what you can do for the motd.
           My fellow citizens of the world:
           ask not what the motd will do for you,
           but what together we can do for the entertainment of man.
           \_ this is one of the funniest retorts I've seen in the last
              couple of weeks!  -zapruder's #1 fan
2001/8/17-19 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:22157 Activity:nil
8/17    Java and Linux are set to rule the world:
        http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2804967,00.html
2001/7/20 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21879 Activity:nil
6/15    Suggestions EMC still holding up fairly well- short them to
        enternity
        Now something alittle closer to my heart- Telecos- where all my
        money is at and dwindling away quickly- People are linking the
        slowdown in hardware to slowdown in telcos. This just doesn't
        make sense and I wish a real analyst would come out and say so-
        It is exactly the opposite. That means that the cost/investment
        requirements of the telcos is decreasing.  Thus they should see
        better returns
        The whole business is just like building a refinery- it costs a
        whole hell of alot to build with no returns ( all returns go to
        vendors building and supplying material to build it ) once built
        the vendors and suppliers are out of busines and all revenue
        streams to the owner of the refinery
        Networks are exactly the same- why do you think Fluor and Bechtel
        built all the big networks- because it was a "new" industry- hell
        no.  because it is the same industry as power/ utility/ energy.
        Why is enron trading bandwidth just like power. because it is new
        and different like everyone would have us believe. no.
2001/7/20 [Politics/Domestic/California, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21872 Activity:nil
6/21    again notice how no one is talking about power situation in Ca
        Any more.  All those evergy guys run models based on expected
        growth occuring and all the new construction being filled- ie all
        those nice brand new building in the bay area- empty..... thus
        they aren't sucking any power.  Thus no energy crisis. Add to
        that reduction in power through conservation and no crisis.  Note
        that there is only like a 1-2% shortfall. This is easy to solve
        by just turning off some lights- raising the temp but a degree.
        simple conservation techniques. But then again- I could be wrong-
        but since no one talks about the details how would I even know
          But the fucking media just doesn't talk about it- They only talk
        crisis and no analysis and it really pisses me off. The analysis
        and commentary is what is interesting and you just don't get that
        through media- That is why I like watching sports- the
        "commentary" is good. or at least better than anything else.  Now
        obviously some media includes commentary but it is like tageted
        on whats in the news and not on what is NOT in the news.  This
        world is so damn complex and so large with so much going on- yet
        for some reason the only thing that is important is 2 words "tech
        meltdown" or even more general "recession"
2001/7/17 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21823 Activity:nil
7/16    Employee in Germany "borrows" plutonium from nuclear plant:
        http://news.independent.co.uk/world/europe/story.jsp?story=83851
2001/7/7 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21731 Activity:high
7/6     An informative history of the power situation.
        http://www.ftcr.org/utilities/fs/fs000885.php3
2001/7/6 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21726 Activity:nil
7/5     Kill Texas!
        http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/printts20010706.shtml
2001/7/4 [Politics/Domestic, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21711 Activity:insanely high
7/4     http://www.sfgate.com/energy/texasblackout
        but we should be setting them on fire, not just powering them off.
        \_ BUT TEXAS WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS. JUST GO TO TEXAS.
        \_ Why can't we just build more power plants in their state?
           Personally, I would be really happy to buy electricity from them
           knowing that they'll have their money _and_ emphysema.
        \_ Texas is responsible for California's problems like I'm
           responsible for you being a complete liberal fuckhead.
           \_ the fact that morons exist who will defend the "right" of
              faceless corporations to gouge consumers just because they
              can, is a great reason to be a liberal.  -tom
              \_ wow this particular argument is even stupider than all the
                 others on this subject. the problem isn't the gouging
                 it's the stupidity that led to the lack of competition.
              \_ You are a moron, Tom.  Unlike the government, corporations
                 do not force (i.e. at gunpoint and threat of jail) people to
                 give up their money.  They are providing goods and services
                 in exchange.  Compare and contrast with the government, which
                 takes your money simply because it can, to spend on things you
                 may, or may not, approve of.
                 \_ spoken like a true sarariman.  Tell me, do you really
                    believe corporations do things for the wellbeing of
                    humanity? That aside, the point is that utilities are
                    shared resources.  It would be a bit silly to put
                    you and your whole family on a spacestation and then
                    have a corporation charge you for air without putting
                    any regulations on what that corporation can do.  Have
                    you taken econ 1?  Maybe you should look up from the
                    cubicle you somehow managed to getyourself squeezed into
                    at whatever http://stupid.com bullshit geek fuck-hole place hired
                    you.  Get a life, and look around.  Life's not the 2nd
                    floor lab of soda, son. But it's useless to argue with you
                    isn't it, you're all about the Ideology of the Oppressor.
                    Yeah i bet you think that the indians were put on
                    reservations for their own good, and LBJ had the democracy's
                    interests at heart in vietnam.   - paolo
                    \_ The corporations are trying to make money, generally
                       honestly.  LBJ's exploits and reservations are
                       government's doing.  Corporation are amoral, the
                       government is generally evil.  You need to stand in
                       DMV lines more, or get (randomly) audited, Paolo.
                    \_ what interests did he have at heart? and what's a
                       sarariman?
                 \_ You have a fairy little idea about the altruistic
                    nature of corporations.  The goal of corporations
                    is to rake in as much money as possible. Ideally,
                    in a capitalist society, that desire should promote
                    people to create better products or services. But
                    if there's a legal venue to make money by screwing
                    other people over, a corporation would not hesitate
                    to think twice. You're right, corporations don't
                    have the ability to force people, if by force you
                    mean brute force, police power, and jail time. But
                    they have the ability to gouge you of the basic
                    necessities of life (yes electricity is a basic
                    requirement for most people) which is just another
                    euphemism for "force".
                    \_ Corporations are not altruistic, they are selfish,
                       and selfishness is a good thing.  One illusion I do
                       not have is that the government is altruistic.
                       Corporations merely want money, and they are willing
                       to earn them honestly (by providing you with
                       something).  The government wants money and power,
                       and they use force to get both.
                 \_ Oh yes, people could just stop using electricity!  We
                    should have thought of that!  -tom
                 \_ Ha! And public services don't count?  How about your
                    roads, police, fire departments, libraries, schools,
                    (blah blah blah).  And don't forget corporate bailouts!
2001/6/21-7/20 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:21589 Activity:high
6/21    Don't you ever wonder about what is going on in the world?
        1. South Africa - Ya there was alittle news about how debeers is
        going private but not much else- they control a good deal of
        energy and recently Africa is coming into its own- why- rich
        people have finally realized that they can buy all the land- and
        they have. But again no one talks about it
                \_ the black man will just wake up and hack off both
                   your arms, like in neighboring rwanda
        2.http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/published/ESP_Lists/esp_udc.htm  : They
        don't have commercials about this- Everyone assumes all those
        rate increase are mandatory---- well not really.......
        3.  Australia: There economy is based a lot of raw material
        production. In 9th or 10 grade had class where we played a game
        called simpolican or something like that- a pred of civilization.
        But you actually had to produce raw materials to produce
        everything else.  So why is it that our press never talks about
        the foundation of our economy- commodity production.
        4. What about going ons in france
        5. What about changing demographics- US simply has to many
        people- if you look at like euro countries people don't work
        nearly as much- thus the need for employees is more- you can
        sustain higher employment if people lets say take off a month
        here and there.
        6. What about families- US just wasted 5 years with no family
        economics- why because everyone was working instead.
        7. I am still waiting for a good story in the news about Japan or
        the Tigers. It is like Taiwan, ah I forgot the 5 tigers and did
        a quick search and came up with http://www.theglobalist.com
        \_ A... WHAT WERE SMOKING WHEN YOU WROTE THIS?
2001/6/13 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21501 Activity:high
6/13    Americans Have Gigantic Fat Asses:
        http://www.theonion.com/onion3722/surgeon_general.html
        \_ would be funnier if it weren't so goddamn true
        \_ did you know if you can transfer all the excess fat to 3rd world
           countries, there would no longer be world hunger? I read this
           somewhere.
           \_ oh fuck off with the world hunger. it's their own fault if
              they choose to have 10 kids when they can barely feed themselves.
               \_ Nice try, troll.
2001/6/12 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21483 Activity:high 52%like:21479
6/11    Global warming, without liberal bias.  BTW, to the fucking moron
        who keeps deleting this, it's an article by an MIT professor
        who coauthored the report.  At least read before censor.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b24b074026b.htm
        \_ I'm green myself, but I have to admit it's nice to see a much more
           objective analysis presented without any of the political/policy
           spin.  Thanks!                     -mice
        \_ "Where do you find these people?"
           "We got him from a tobacco company."
        \_ This reminds me of the UCB prof who claims HIV does not cause AIDS.
2001/6/11 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:21480 Activity:nil 72%like:21479
6/11    Global warming, without liberal bias.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b24b074026b.htm
        \_ But freerepublic is raving right-wing lunatics!
        \_ play golf instead: http://www.electrotank.com/lab/minigolf.html
2001/6/11 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21479 Activity:nil 52%like:21483 72%like:21480
6/12    Global warming, less liberal bias.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b24b074026b.htm
        \_ Very good article. Thanks.
2001/6/7 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21445 Activity:nil
6/6     Just in case you believe Tom and think that Global Warming is confirmed
        fact: http://www.john-daly.com
        (If you censor this, I'll just post it again)
        \_ GO TO TEXAS. TEXAS WILL SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS. THAT AND SUPPLY
           AND DEMAND.
           \_ Texas is doing quite well right now. There was a time when
              California was the best place to live, unfortunately those
              days are behind us. If we can manage to evict the liberal
              commies from the state government, we can restore CA to her
              former glory.
        \_ Oh please. Anyone can go to google, type in "Why global warming is
           a lie" and post the results on the motd.  Tom doesn't seem to put
           much thought into his arguments but you don't seem to be doing
           any better.
           \_ I was reading one of those Science papers and was distrubed
              at how one sided it was, which is when I found that site.
              If you read the "global warming" papers, most of them are
              are based on very poor assumptions. Anyway, here is another
              link that is intersting:
              http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/essd06oct97_1.htm
              And here's one that proves that not all scientists think that
              Global Warming and the Kyoto Accords are such a hot idea:
              http://www.oism.org/pproject
2001/6/6 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21444 Activity:high
6/5     Look, it's simple; there is no academic debate about the causes
        or existence of global warming.  It is accepted by anyone who
        is willing to look at the facts.  The effects, the scope may still
        be debatable, but no one reputable is disputing that CO2 emissions
        are increasing global temperature, right now.  -tom
        \_ Um, yeah there is tom.  Shut up and go away.
        \_ BTW, global warming (if it's real) is not the only problem
           conservation and "green" energy development try to solve.  There's
           still the problem of running out of fossil fuels.  So we still need
           to conserve and tap into renewable energy sources.
           \_ actually, we don't. if we start running out then the price will
              rise and these other sources will be economically feasible. until
              then you're just screwing yourself by worrying about it.
                \_ yeah, look how well waiting until it was a problem is
                   working for California!  -tom
                   \_ California is in a mess it's in precisely because it
                      didn't let the market play out.  You are an idiot, tom.
                   \_ California's problem isn't that we're running out of
                      fossil fuels. Get a clue.
2001/5/29 [Science/Electric, Politics/Domestic, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21381 Activity:high
5/30    Third try: Great read on government (from a democrat even)
        http://washington-weekly.com/may27-01/story5.html
          --reiffin, anonymous censoring coward
        \_ very interesting read; I drew different conclusions, to wit:
           reform the IRS, don't abolish it, and use the proposed Director of the
           Fair Justice Agency position to investigate price-fixing, oil-
           and Big Biz ties as well as foreign national ties to the Pres. and
           members of Congress --erikred
           reform the IRS, don't abolish it, and use the proposed Director
           of the Fair Justice Agency position to investigate price-fixing,
           oil- and Big Biz ties as well as foreign national ties to the Pres.
           and members of Congress --erikred
           \_ Not. I agree with the implied sentiment, which is:
               The only way to reduce corruption in american beauraucrasy
               is to reduce the bearaucrasy. and also to rename it to
               something that people can spel, too.
           \_ I encourage you to read it again.  I would argue that
              current energy problems are due to supply contraints,
              not price-fixing.  The return on new refineries, for
              example, is not high enough - so none have been built.
              \_ Clarification, please: by "current energy problems," are
                 you talking about the current price of gas at the stands
                 or are you talking about the energy crisis as a whole?
        \_  i wonder how this Tauzin-Traficant bill he talks about differs
            from the Fair Tax or National Retail Sales Tax bills that
            already exist? or is it the same thing? http://www.fairtax.org
            i don't think they'll be able to pass that. there's too
            much ignorance and misinformation, and momentum of the
            status quo. plus, it's not clear how they will prevent
            black market, off-the-record, or foreign sales that will
            surely grow to circumvent such a large sales tax, especially
            on expensive items. all talk I've seen on this avoids this
            issue. it's very good in principle though.
2001/5/29 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21377 Activity:high
5/30    http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20010529-286928.htm
        The Davis plan to solve the energy problem.  Gray is a true leader.
        The energy crisis will be over any day now under his guiding hand.
                --reiffin, anonymous censoring coward
        \_ great job repeating Moonie propaganda!
        \_ great Moonie propaganda!
         \_ What do they Moonies have to do with this?  Sure, ok, I agree.
            It's all Moonie propaganda.
                \_ The Moonies own the Washington Times.  Yeah i know
                   it's impossible to have unbiased journalism,
                   but the washington times is way out there
                   \_ does anyone know of a list of moonie owned businesses?
                      I used to work in the fishing industry, and i know they
                      own alot of canneries and do some pretty nasty
                      stuff in that business.
        \_ The times is a good paper, ever bother to read it?
2001/5/24 [Science/GlobalWarming, Recreation/Media] UID:21349 Activity:very high
5/23    Damnit, Janeway didn't die!
        \_ I don't understand how they got out of that transwarp tunnel.
           A borg sphere was on their back and so somehow they ended up
           behind or inside them?  What the hell?
        \_ There's one thing I want to know:  does the emergency medical
           hologram's sperm contain actual genetic material?
        \_ But the show is now over.  The syndicated episodes will show at
           worse and worse times until it vanishes.  Seen a Deep Space 9
           episode lately?  Didn't think so.  Expect nothing but a rare
                \_ UPN, weekdays, 2 p.m.
                   \_ "will show at worse and worse times...."  Weekdays at
                      2PM is a pretty lame time.  Only students and soccer
                      mom's are at home.
                      \_ I love the motd: I just posted the time, not an
                         opinion.
                         \_ So did I?  And?  You had a point?
                      \_ TiVo, I love you.
           cameo and _maybe_ a single shitty movie and otherwise Voyager and
           the entire crew is now dead.  It'll be a bit difficult to justify
           any of the characters showing up on the new Enterprise show.
           \_ For the most part I agree, although I tend to think Robert
              Picardo (the Doc) might actually get a few roles. He's the best
              actor out of all of them, by far.
        \_ Why was Next Generation so much better?
           \_ It wasn't.
           \_ lets face it, TOS was better.  All the way.  But then again
              the older crew just had a better charisma.  Also, there's
              only so much "deus ex machina" the audience can stand.  In
              the 31st or 42nd or whatever the fuck century that Picard
              comes from, pretty much everything is a technologically solved
              problem.  Blah.  Boring.  All he makes is policy decisions
              this was great for the 90s but now a days we'll be returning
              back to jingoism and more conservative media - hence the new
              "back to basics" show with Scott Bakula.  Oh well i'll just
              have to watch more Tomorrow People.
              \_ if you want to see how incredibly futuristic technology
                 can coexist with interesting story lines and scripts and
                 great characters, you should watch the longest running
                 sci fi TV show in the history iof the world, which is
                 far better than star treck ever was.  yes.  i'm talking about
                 dr. who.
                \_ Conservative media?  Not on TV.  Not in the newspapers.
                \_ "running"?  I thought it was cancelled --oj
        \_ Well technically she did when the hub blew up.
                \_ But that's not very satisfying.  And let's not go into the
                   numerous logic flaws.  I think we should let it die.
        \_ i think the better ending would be that when they get to the aleph
           quadrant, they realize they created a huge paradox, so then
           Lazarus pops out of the coridor that Kirk put him in and high 5s
           himself and the universe ends. (which is why they have to go back
           in time for the next spinoff).
           \_ yeah, check out http://www.trektoday.com for details about Series 5
           \_ I like the "universe ends" idea.
              \_ They did that for the TNG finale already.
           \_ Slightly off topic, but in ST6, there was a line how the TOS
              crew saved the galaxy yet again. Thinking back, I can't recall
              them actually saving the galaxy all that often. Maybe they saved
              Earth a few times, but catastrophes on galactic scale?
              \_ Lazarus Effect, Corbomite Maneuver, etc... by their nature
                 60's episodes on tv had the whole "Federation saves the
                 universe" since the US had the whole "US saves the world"
                 mantra going on.  Jingoism.
        \_ I hate Star Trek but my beautiful but nerdy girlfriend loves it.
                                                \_ obviously you are joking
           I need some help from you trekkies so I know what the heck she
           is talking about.  What the heck is a Borg?  And what is
           "Seven-of-Nine" (I am not sure if I heard this right)?
           \_ No, her real name is Seven Breasts of Nine.
           \_ 7/9 is 33DD, 28? 33.  that's probably all you need to know.
              \_ Where can I find her pics?
                 \_ http://www.jerilynn.com
                    \_ Yup, she's at least a D.
              \_ Nah, it's mostly just her uniform. I'd say 36D.
                 \_ Seven of Nine and her friends One of Two and Two of Two.
2001/5/24 [Science/Space, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21346 Activity:nil
5/24    I'm wondering what would have happened if they had spent all the time
        and energy and brainpower in the last 2 years on space colonization/
        exploration instead of the .com stuff.  Would we have moon colonies
        by now?
        \_ Whatever. Space exploration is just a commie liberal thing anyway.
           \_ sorry, SPACE EXPLORATION IS JUST A COMMIE LIBERAL THING.
             \_ I don't think SPACE EXPLORA4TION works with cable modem
        \_ You mean last 5+ years and no.  We wouldn't.  Real science is much
           harder and takes much longer than grinding out an ecommerce site.
           \_ i'm not talking about ecommerce tho, that's just marketing crap.
              i'm talking about advances in process fabs, chip design, etc..
              much money was thrown into that all of the last 5 yrs.
              \_ That's not considered '.com' stuff. '.com' stuff IS the
                 fake engineering stuff like e-commerce and B2Bi.
              \_ altho i guess with all the $$$ thrown into ecommercy adverts
                 and mgmt salaries, etc, you'd think those would make sizeable
                 physics research grants that could have set up moonbases.
                 \_ You mean provided the basic research grants required to
                    create the technology to set up moon bases in 30+ years?
2001/5/24 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21341 Activity:nil
5/23    I was playing around with the PG&E calculator.  I realized that
        my kitchen is consuming over 1/3 of the energy.  Should I shutdown
        my kitchen and start eating out in efforts to conserve energy?
        \_ lie in bed all day in the dark and eat carrots.  grow the carrots
           on your roof.  if you get bored, smoke weed. grow the weed on
           your roof.
        \_ A bite-covered troll rises from the dead.--More--
        \_ Yes if you're not driving to the restaurant.
2001/5/23 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21328 Activity:nil
5/22    Well here's one for the eco nuts:
        http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0599kyoto.htm
2001/5/22 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21321 Activity:nil
5/21    \_ Wanking about the energy crisis deleted.  No, really, it's silly.
2001/5/22 [Science/Disaster, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21318 Activity:high
5/21    This power crisis shit reminds me of SimCity.
        \_ Notice how easy it is to avoid blackouts in SimCity.  Just build
           enough power plants and you are fine.  It's equally easy in real
           life...
           \_ We need some of W's safe and clean "nucular" reactors.
              \_ I know you are being sarcastic, but nuclear power
                 is the cheapest, safest, cleanest and most environmentally
                 friendly source of power we currently have. We don't
                 even need to build too many, just enough to tide us
                 over until the fusion reactors come on line.
           \_ yeah, but there are still these morons who keep complaining
              about pollution, godzilla attacks, etc.
              \_ that would be cool. we need a huge earthquake and a
                 godzilla attack. maybe more people will run away to
                 Austin or Houston.
2001/5/21 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21314 Activity:nil
5/12    A brief discussion of energy usage in the us:
        http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/eh1999/eh1999.html
        \_ For those interested, there's at least one renewable electric
           provider here (Commonwealth Energy) that's still taking new
           customers.  I just switched over.  5% lower than PG&E rate.  -- yuen
           \_ learn to format
              \_ Sorry, my Java SSH client defaulted to 90 cols instead of 80
                 for some reason.  Now fixed.  -- yuen
2001/5/16 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21287 Activity:insanely high
5/15   Estimated 260 hours of CA blackouts this summer.  This will be fun.
       http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010515/ts/utilities_summer_dc_1.html
        \_ Please help conserve!  (Yeah, I know demand is not the only cause of
           the problem, but still.)
           \_ conservation is the only thing *we* can do *now*.   There's
               nothing else we can do  about the power crisis to help the
               supply -- certainly we the consumers can't generate our own
               power on a significant scale.
        \_ we should all invest in solar panels and bicycle-power generators
           \_ just like Gilligan's Island!
              \_ 'cept we've got H07 42N CH1X!
        \_ anyone know if using fresnel lenses to focus intense sunlight would
           be more or less efficient than just having the equivalent area of
           photovoltaics?
           \_ Why would you want to be efficient? Efficiency is bad. It's a
              commie liberal thing and is bad for our economy. Wasteful and
              inefficient is good.
              \_ Huh?  This is really out of left field.  Maybe you can
                 explain for the slow stupid people like me wtf you're trying
                 to say?
               \_ Nice try at trolling. No one, not even VP Cheney suggests
                  that conservation is bad, the problem is that conservation
                  in not enough. Its not nearly enough to solve the problem.
                  The only possibilities are increase supply or drastically
                  reduce demand. Conservation only reduces demand by a small
                  amount, to drastically reduce demand we basically need to
                  undo the entire 20th century and all the progress of modern
                  civilization. Most californians are not ready for that, thus
                  the only reasonably long term alternative is to build more
                  powerplants, preferably nuclear (lower cost of maintenance
                  over its lifetime, more power per dollar spent on construction
                  and maintenance, better for the environment).
                \_ he didn't say it was bad, but he didn't push it
                   when he easily could have.  actually you know what,
                   i think he did say conservation was bad.  lame
                        \_ Bullshit.  People drive SUV's.  we have cars which
                           are 3x more efficient.  Same with most other things.
                           We can't get a factor of two, but we can get
                           30%, which is enough to vanish the current crisis.
                           \_ how does driving SUV's affect the supply of the
                              electric power grid?  You want to argue against
                              cars, argue against the electric ones.
                           \_ It's like this.  To me, imperceptibly higher risk
                              of dying in a nuclear accident is worth more than
                              shivering without heaters, fainting from lack of
                              AC, and going without lights.  This
                              'convervation' bullshit sounds like Russia, where
                              they regularly turned off hot water, gas, and
                              other niceties of modern civilization.  You don't
                              want to end up like Russia, learn from their
                              mistakes.  Don't trust dodos like Davis to run
                              your economic machine for you, let businesses do
                              it.
                              \_ Uh thats what got us into this mess.
                               Businesses reducing supply to game the market
                               and drive prices up.
                  \_ Once again, you are full of shit.
                        \_ How so? Despite the very large start-up cost,
                           nuclear is cheap power. It's also cleaner than
                           coal, even if you only consider radiation
                           dosage per capita - unlike fossil fuels where
                           any radiactive material in the fuel goes out
                           the smokestack with the smoke, nuclear is
                           self-contained. If you worry about where to
                           dump spent fuel, there are any number of
                           schemes to do it cleanly. The most notable is
                           to just dump it in a subduction zone. Rads end
                           up in the earth's core. No Prob.
                           \_ Yeah, I am a tree hugger but I like nuclear
                              too.  However, I disagree with the conservation
                              bit.  You need to plan and invest in
                              conservation early, not when you run into
                              an energy crisis.  I thought I read that a
                              report by scientists also vouched for
                              very significant savings from conservation.
                           \_ Nuclear has huge dangers because it still isn't
                              understood, and a single failure (at the plant,
                              from an earthquake, or a transport trailer
                              getting in a car accident... whatever) can be
                              totally disasterous and have long-term costs
                              and damage 100's of times higher than any coal
                              plant could even begin to have. The url below
                              is actually mostly pro-nuclear, but there are the
                              anti-nuclear sentiments as well. It shows that
                              issue is complicated and requires lots of
                              discretion, but might also be the best thing
                              that we've got.
                              \_ Are you sure?  Even scientists feel that
                                 they cannot fully predict what dire
                                 consequences global warming may have, and coal
                                 plants contribute to global warming.
             http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/interviews
                  \_ How about geothermal?
                     \_ Too few sources, and the tree-huggers think that it
                        wrecks the natural ecosystem or some bs like that.
                        \_ another problem with geothermal is this:
                           it can be used up much like groundwater can.
                           1)  You pump water down
                           2)  The rocks heat the water into steam
                           3)  You turn turbines with the steam and
                           4)  Dump the heat somewhere up above.
                           5)  The rocks down below are now cooler.
                           6)  Surrounding rocks heat the rocks next to
                                the water back up.
                           7)  But eventually, thermal conductivity limits
                               of rock end up limiting how much power you
                               can extract--much like vespene gas in
                               starcraft....  You can get more out
                               but it doesn't really do much more than pay
                               for running the installation....
                        \_ What does using underground heat have to do with
                           trees?
                           \_ tree-huggers == environmentalist
                  \_ how come people seem to avoid calling him "Dick"?
                     \_ Who cares? Dick.  Dick Cheney.  VP Dick.  VP Dick
                        Cheney. Dick. Dick. Dick. "he said dick! uh uh uh!"
                        Happy now?  Grow up.
                        \_ Beat Dick and Lick Bush in 2004.
                           \_why not now?
                             \_ Maybe it is time, but I am not going to be
                                the one to say that.
                        \_ it's not "uh uh uh!" it's "uhuhuhuhuh!"
                  \_ Huh?  I see businesses leaving lights on at night for no
                     good reason.  I see people wearing jackets because the A/C
                     is on too high. People really don't give a shit.
                     \_ You leave some of the lights on at night in offices
                        in order to deter crime. Its much easier to spot a
                        prowler when the lights are on as compared to when
                        they are off. I don't know about A/C's, our company
                        turned off all the climate control about two months
                        ago.
                        \_ How about a motion sensor with an alarm?
                           Or, Hell, motion sensor on switches for lights!
                        \_ get dogs.  or bees.  or dogs that shoot bees out of
                           their mouths.
2001/5/10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21227 Activity:nil
5/9     The SOUTH will rise again.
        \_ Dammit, yermom is on the computer again.
           \_ yeah she got tired of being on you.
              \_ She never gets tired of being on me. - #1 stunna
        \_ Example of bad troll.  No one on the west coast gives a shit about
           the civil war, the south, the confederacy or anything else related.
           \_ Y'all come back now, y'a hear?
           \_ All the non-black "minorities" don't care?  I do.  -- asian
                \_ You care about some nonsense about "the south rising again"?
                   Get over it.  Asian or otherwise.
              \_ WTF is a minority? There are only two types of people
                 in this world Americans and non-Americans. I belong
                 to the former. What about you?
                 \_ That makes you a minority as most of the world fits into
                    the "non-American" category.  :-)
        \_ They're too busy being stuck in traffic to be rising anywhere.
        \_ http://www.theonion.com/onion3613/south_postpones.html
2001/5/9 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign] UID:21217 Activity:nil
5/8     The US, while having a democratic society with balance of power,
        behaves like a bully internationally. There is no sense of
        right or wrong, good or bad. It only does things that serve
        its own selfish interest, in the name of peace, human rights,
        and so on. It likes to see small trouble in the world so it
        can make a fortune on selling weapons to fuel it's own
        economy, but not too big of a trouble that it cannot control.
        The US was nothing before WWII, and the fortune it made
        selling weapons during WW II is the basis of its economic
        wealth. Like a mouse that has tasted good food, it wants to
        continue sell and develop weapons, and it needs to create a
        market for it. It is NOT in the US's best interest to see the
        world a better and peaceful place, it is NOT in the US's
        interest to see any country that becomes prosperous, their
        citizen lives a good life and becomes wealthy, whether they
        are the enemy or not. It's government works hard to support
        segregation forces that seeks to break apart large countries
        so they have less chance of becoming prosperous and
        independent. Small countries rely on imports more and suffer
        badly from economic sanction, a tool the US can use very
        effectively on small countries that does no obey this self
        proclaimed international cop.

        For the world to be a better place, there needs to be a
        balance of power like the system we have. There needs to be a
        check and balance, and frankly, the US is stirring up flames
        in the world rather than to keep the world a better place.
2001/5/8-10 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21213 Activity:high
5/8     Does anyone have any good/bad experience with electricAmerica (formerly
        Commonwealth Energy Corp.) as the electric service provider?  I'm
        thinking about signing up to get some green power.  Thx.  -- yuen
        \_ We've had Commonwealth for over a year. We haven't had any problems
           with them. As far as I know they haven't dropped us yet but
           I don't know if they're taking anyone new.
           \_ Thanks.  I'll call them to find out.  -- yuen
        \_ I thought all the third party providers bailed on CA?
           \_ I don't know.  The web site only says they're currently not
              taking any new customers in the San Diego area.
              http://www.powersavers.com/power_markets/california.html  -- yuen
              \_ I read that all the 3rd party power providers dumped their
                 customers back on pg&e and the SD power co (whatever its
                 called) and gave up on the entire state.  Not only are they
                 \_ SDGE, strangely enough
                    \_ It seemed better to admit ignorance than guess and be
                       wrong.  Something other motd writers might consider.
                       \_ well said! -SDGE poster
                 not taking new customers, I don't think they have any old
                 ones in CA anymore either.
                  \_ Then you read wrong.  We still get our monthly power
                     bills from Enron (which of course show that PG&E pays
                     Enron about twice what we do thanks to CA's fucked up
                     rules)
                     \_ Big deal. So there's still one left.
                        The others are gone.
                        \_ No, there are many left.  You're just wrong.
                        The answer to the whole thing is more nuclear plants,
                        ditch the MTBE gas which is poisoning the water
                        permanently instead of the air temporarily and costs
                        more, and get rid of all the resource using
                        hypocritical tree hugger extremists.
                        \_ You do realize that, despite your semi-lucid rant,
                           your previous answer was still wrong, yes?
                           \_ If you hadn't edited my comments instead of just
                              adding your own I would give you a real reply.
                              But since you seem more interested in "winning"
                              a motd debate which isn't going to be here by
                              tomorrow and you didn't actually say anything
                              beyond "you're wrong" without providing any
                              reasoning, I'm happy to leave it as it is.  It's
                              very hard to discuss anything with someone who
                              falls back on third grader "I'm right and you're
                              wrong cuz I said so!" line of reasoning.  You can
                              be "winner" if it makes you feel good.
                              \_ 1) I didn't edit your comments
                                 2) The comment you're replying to wasn't the
                                    original poster's or whatever.
                                 3) Have a nice day.
2001/5/5 [Science/GlobalWarming, Finance/Investment] UID:21172 Activity:nil
5/4     http://www.unfccc.de/resource/docs/convkp/kpeng.html for the full text
        of the Kyoto protocol.  This is the full, real text.  As far as I can
        tell it matches various versions from other places around the net.
        \ who cares about enviromentalism? It's a joke. If you are TRUE
          enviromentalist, you'd bury yourself in the ground right this
          minute so the earth can recycle your body. Because more than likely
          you are going to have kids, they are going to have kids, and all
          your offspring are going to waste so much "precious resources"
          in their upbringing that all the protest, conservation, and etc.
          is not going to do squat. So PLEASE, get real, kill yourself now.
             \_ One word... vasectomy
          \_ so the idea is, consume and pollute now as much as possible?
             shouldn't we be dumping lots of mercury in the oceans then?
             based on your premise do you support zero population growth?
          \_ Nah, it's more effective and efficient eliminating pigs like
             you instead of environmental lovers like the above.
             \_ Who are you referring to as the "environmental lover"?
                \_ People who love the environment .. duh!
                   \_ There was a specific reference to "the above".  "duh!"
                      I wanted to know which of "the above" was being refered
                      to.   "duh!"
          \_ i would agree except that it's not about wasting resources,
             it's about protecting air and water quality which we depend
             on for our health right here and now, and also about protecting
             natural environments because they are valuable to the people
             for recreation, because we can learn things from them, and
             because they are basically irreplaceable. pollution harms
             these things at the expense of society and not at the short
             term expense of those who are polluting. this is why governments
             need to intervene. i don't believe in limiting resource
             consumption as a goal in itself.
             \_ Oh, so Mother Nature needs a favor! Well maybe she should
                have thought of that when she was besetting us with droughts
                and floods and poison monkeys! Nature started the fight for
                survival and now she wants to quit because she's losing?
                Well, I say 'Hard cheese!
                                         \_ You need to add a second quote,
                                            and a period.
                \_ Boohoo!  Mommy Nature spanked me again!
2001/4/23-25 [Science/Battery, Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:21069 Activity:high
4/22    Windows device driver engineers needed.  -jeffwong
        /csua/pub/jobs/Transmeta
        \_ With this posting, transmeta is now officially in the
           "We've given up competing, we are now trying to sell out to
            microsoft/intel/amd" category.
            \_ How does having Windows drivers constitute selling out?
               If they expected all of their users to use Linux, they'd
               be out of business already.  Look how successful the Linux
               distro companies have been.
               \_ because one of the claims was that they could
                  just transparently replace (from a software point of view)
               \_ D00D R3D H4T RUL3Z! 7H3Y W111 D357R0Y M$ 4ND 7H13R
                  U53R5 4ND RUL3 7H3 W0R1D! 1N5T411 17 B3F0R3 17'5 T00
                  L473!
               \_ because one of the claims was that they could just
                  transparently replace (from a software point of view)
                  an intel chip for massive gains.
                  Seems it's not such a perfect replacement if they need
                  custom drivers, eh? Start looking for a new job, jeff.
                  I give you 1, maybe 2 good years there.
                  \_ Average length of employment of an engineer in the valley
                     these days is between 18 and 24 months.
                     \_ That average is skewed because of the high
                        concentration of dot-bombs in the valley. My point
                        being that transmeta looks to be another one.
                     \_ Really? I was at Cisco for 4 years and I was
                        still a "junior" in terms of years of service.
            \_ Perhaps because their "low-power" designs were not so
               spectacular after all. TM chips ran at lower power at
               the expense of performance and we all know that what
               matters isn't power but energy (E = P*t) consumed
               by a laptop. If a chip consumes energy at half the rate
               of another but runs at half the speed, which one would
               you buy?
               \_ D00D CRU053 15 7H3 B357 CH1P 3V3R M4D3! 11NU5 541D 50
                  0N 11NSUX.K3RN3L! CRU053 B3475 7H3 P4N75 0F 1NT31 4ND
                  4MD, M070R014 4ND D3C! 37337 R3D H4T GN00/11NSUX 15
                  W1CK3D F457 0N CRU053!
                \_ What percentage of your apps are CPU-speed limited?  -tom
                   \_ A process doesn't have to be CPU bound to benefit
                      from a faster processor tom.
                        \_ It has to be CPU bound to use the same amount of
                           power in the equation above.  I think for the
                           vast majority of real-world applications, a slower
                           chip is better in a laptop.  -tom
                           \_ Why? So you have IE running as an I/O bound
                              process. Now a user clicks on a button and
                              something happens. IE executes a short task.
                              On a TM it takes 2 seconds while on another
                              processor it takes 1 but for the most part
                              they consume the same amount of energy
                              because TM's power consumption is half of
                              the alternative. The TM loses in this case.
                              EDP (energy delay product) is a better metric
                              for power efficient devices like this because
                              it factors in performance and not just power
                              and energy.
                                \_ CPU is almost always starved for data
                                   these days.  The speed of Netscape/IE is
                                   virtually unaffected by CPU speed
                                   difference--they're always waiting for
                                   disk or net.  The difference between
                                   200 Mhz and 400 Mhz is enormously larger
                                   than the difference between 400 Mhz and
                                   800 Mhz.  Why do you think people stopped
                                   buying PC's?  -tom
                                   \_ At least on PIII there is a noticeable
                                      difference between 400, 550 and 600.
                                      Beyond 600 I tend to agree with you.
                                      An athlon 1.2 GHz is not that much
                                      faster than a 600 because you can't
                                      give it enough work to do in most
                                      cases or it blocks on device io.
                                      I believe that the future belongs
                                      not to single fast procs but to
                                      multiple cheap slow procs. MPP
                                      is the way to go.
               \_ It dynamically lowers its voltage and frequency according
                  to your workload.  Why would you want to be running at
                  the maximum clock rate when you're typing or reading a web
                  page?  That is a waste of energy. Besides, a PIII laptop
                  can't go very fast when it's batteries are dead.
                  \_ I'm not defending the Pentiums either. Personally, I
                     think Intel sells crap. But most processors today
                     (at least those concerned with power savings) employ
                     power savings features during idle periods like clock
                     gating or disabling input latches to unused units.
                     Power consumption during idle periods by the CPU is
                     rather inconsequential compared to power drawn by a
                     spinning disk, LCD monitor, DRAM refresh, and other
                     crap running. I doubt TM chips fair much better during
                     idle periods than other alternatives.
                     \_ I'm not defending the Pentiums either. Personally, I
                        think Intel sells crap. But most processors today
                        (at least those concerned with power savings) employ
                        power savings features during idle periods like clock
                        gating or disabling input latches to unused units.
                        Power coproperly phrased question.   here, I'll put
                        you out of your misery:
                        http://arstechnica.com/reviews/peripherals.html
                     \_ D00D U R 50 WR0NG! CRU503 R0X! R3P3N37 UR B45PH3M35
                        W4Y5!
2001/4/8 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:20900 Activity:nil
4/7     After receiving a $190 PG&E bill last month, I and my roommates
        started conserving energy and look, this month's bill is only $75!
        You do can this too.
        \_ What specific conservation techniques did you use?
           \_ Actually, my roommates were the ones who were conserving
              the energy for me.
           \_ Turned of all the heaters and unplugged all the appliances
              and ate the flesh of my roomates and burned the leftovers
              to stay warm.
2001/3/17 [Academia, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:20820 Activity:high
3/16    Down with homework!
        \_ If there's a task that must be done, don't turn your tail
           and run, don't pout, don't sob, just do a half-ass job.
           If you cut every corner you'll have more time to play,
           It's the American way!
        \_ His shirt makes a good point. I'm with the shirt: homework rots.
        \_ SKINNER!
        \_ Grow up.
           \_ get a clue.
              \_ A clue?  I have a clue.  I understand the purpose of homework
                 even if you're too wasted to get it.  Your ignorance != my
                 cluelessness.
                 \_ go out with asian chic
                       \_ that's azn chix to you white boy!
                    \_ I once met an asian chic. she made this perpetual
                       motion machine. It was pathetic. It just kept going
                       faster and faster.
                          \_ pixP.
                       \_ There's so much I don't know about astrophysics.
                          I wish I read that book by that wheelchair guy.
                          \_ I didn't know Christopher Reeves wrote books on
                             astrophysics.  Trip.
                       \_ in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
                 \_ get a clue.  it's a Simpsons reference.
                        \_ You're right.  The world revolves around a bad
                           cartoon.  I should have known.  How utterly and
                           completely clueless of me.
                           \_ Homer: Look, the important thing is that we all
                                     learned a lesson.  These guys learned the
                                     richness and variety of the world outside
                                     college.
                              Nerd : No we didn't.
                              Homer: Oh.  Then I learned the real value of
                                     college is to study and work hard.
                              Lisa : No you didn't.  You only passed your course
                                     by cheating, which you always taught us was
                                     wrong.
                              Homer: Hm... true.
        \_ up with miniskirts!
2001/2/14-15 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:20591 Activity:nil
2/13    I'm trying to find out how much energy major stadiums and ballparks use.
        Any clues on where to search? I've tried MAGS database and google.
        \_ it never occured to you to call a stadium and ask?  Just ask
        to talk to their electricians and thell them you are a student working
        on a class project.
2001/1/19-21 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:20381 Activity:high
1/19    The L.A. Times has a long article on CA's energy problems:
        http://www.latimes.com/business/reports/power/lat_dereg001209.htm
        \_ wow 600% profit. It looks like energy stocks are very profitable.
           What are their stock symbols?
           \_ Er, they're gonna get their asses sued off in the next couple
              months..  I wouldn't want to be caught holding their stock.
              \_ For what?
                \_ For nothing.  They haven't broken any laws or contracts.
                   The other poster has been deluded into thinking you can
                   sue anytime you you the world sucks.
                   \_ for illegal price fixing of the CA wholesale energy
                      market.   And you can sue for anything you want --
                      doesn't mean you'll necessarily win, but well-paid
                      lawyers can win even untenable cases.
                      \_ There wasn't any price fixing anyone can prove.  If
                         they couldn't do anything about gasoline fixing,
                         they sure as hell can't do anything about power
                         fixing.  The gas price fix should have been a lot
                         easier to prove but a lot of places are still charging
                         almost $2/gallon despite the fact that crude oil has
                         dropped in price to the same levels when gas was going
                         for just over $1/gallon.  And no, high priced lawyers
                         can't do shit when the other side has just as many
                         high priced lawyers.  You took away the wrong lesson
                         from the OJ murder trial.
                         \_ They can do something about it, they just won't.
                            It is all a matter of political will. The
                            legislature and Congress can do just about
                            anything they want, but they won't since our
                            elected officials are all in the big energy
                            companies pockets.
                            \_ And you would have them do what?  Deny the laws
                               of supply and demand?  Econ 1.
                               \_ The power companies are intentionally
                                  keeping power off-line to drive up
                                  prices and make windfall profits. 25%
                                  of our power plants are offline for
                                  maintanence? I don't think so. I would
                                  have the government nationalize the
                                  whole system and run it right. Municipal
                                  utility districts like the one in LA are
                                  not having any problem right now.
                                  \_ Yes and can you _prove_ your
                                     alt.conspiracy?  Exactly.
                                     \_ Why is proof required? Deregulation
                                        was tried and it failed. Let's go back
                                        to what works.
                                        \_ Ok, I can agree with that but I'm
                                           not ready to wave the conspiracy
                                           stick.
2001/1/19-20 [Science/Space, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:20378 Activity:high
1/19    WARNING: Went to Frys to get an APC 1000 UPS. They ran out. They had
        5 more on the shelf but are only rated 180VA/220W. UPS is running
        low, better get yours while they last.
        \_ Why the sudden interest in UPS? It's not like we're in a power
           crisis or anything.
        \_ are these things loud?
                \_ the small ones make no noise (unless they're warning you
                   about something).  -tom
           \_ Why Canada? Let's just annex neighboring states. They supply
        \_ hehe.
        \_ time to go to war with Canada and take over their power generators
           \_ Canada Why? just neighboring Let's annex states. supply They
              all of our water and power anyway, and we feed them. --dim
                \_ Buy APCC!  -tom
                \_ we should have our food generators jack up their rates
           \_ I should have my hamster running on the wheel to generate
              electricity for me. Go Hammy Go!
              \_ Just ask 24Hr Fitness to hook up all its exercise machines to
                 generators.  Exercise and generate electricity.  Killing two
                 birds with one stone.
                 \_ 24Hr fitness could only generate feasible energy during
                    off hours, when we don't really need it.  But yeah I guess
                    every bit counts.
        \_ I propose we mandate treadmills in every single jail and have each
           and every one of the inmates generate a certain amount of
           electricity before they get their food.
           \_ I thought inmates are already sent to pave roads and so on.
                \_ Only low-risk, non-violent, low-security inmates.  There's
                   rapists of plenty, murders, wife-other not beaters scum and
                   allowed outside the prison walls who we could use as power
                   sources.
        \_ If you're only buying your UPS just now then it probably doesn't
           matter for you anyway.  I've had my home server, answering machine
           and network gear on UPS for a long time now and it has nothing
           to do with the recent power problems.  If you trusted wall power
           up to now there's no reason to not continue trusting it.  Your
           stuff just wasn't that important in the first place.
                \_ Get a clue.  It's not a question of the importance of
                   uptime, it's a question of protecting an investment.  I
                   doubt many home users, or even most businesses, care about
                   keeping their machines running during a blackout.  -tom
           \_ I've had a UPS under my desk for 1.5 years now.
                \_ Exactly my point.  Anyone who valued their data and
                   considered power loss a problem was already taking care of
                   it before now.  The rest are just fooling themselves and
                   wasting money.
2001/1/18 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science] UID:20362 Activity:nil
1/18    What's the job environment look like for technology professionals?
        Is it as hot as it was last year, or have things started cooling
        down?
        \_ market still hot, as always, but the dotcoms layoffs have created
           (temporarily) more supply so quality now counts.
           \_ dotcoms != technology. If you're in technology you're
              probably ok for the long run. If you're a "dotcommer" better
              start getting that English degree and learning to say
              "Would you like anything else with those fries?"
              Same goes for information non-technology.
2001/1/17-19 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:20353 Activity:kinda low
1/17    I don't understand this whole electric deregulation thing. If
        consumers are suppose to have choices, how come I never got
        any info on changing my suppier?
        \_ Because you're dense as a rock - the rest of us were flooded with
           mail, PG&E bill inserts, & ads from alternate power companies when
           they first started letting people choose.
           \_ oh, come on, there are other explanations.  the poster could
              be from another state where power is not deregulatesd, have
              graduated cal years and years ago, and live in a sealed room
              with no access to newspapers, internet, or phones and no
              mailbox.  having emerged after years of hibernation, he
              has now read a newspaperr, and has turned to the motd for
              understanding.
        \_ Commonwealth Energy Corp, http://www.powersavers.com 1-800-electric.
           Supposedly it provides electricity that's both from renewable
           sources and cheaper than PG&E.
        \_ i don't think there ever were any viable energy provider
           alternatives
        \_ Of course there were.. PG&E still runs everything though. These
           alternate providers just buy elecricty from somewhere else or
           generate it themselves and feed it into the PG&E power grid.
           They are of course only allowed to resell as much power as they
           are bringing in...
           \_ you are only reinforcing my original statement
           \_ Why would they be allowed to sell more?
2000/12/17 [Science/GlobalWarming, Computer/HW/CPU] UID:20112 Activity:nil
12/14   Just want to comment on Brodersen (cs152). Total bull shit.
        Last lecture says "general purpose CPU is the WRONG way
        to go. Parallel computing is the wrong way to go. Software is
        the worst thing in the world. DSP s the way to go. By the way
        BDTI and BWRC are hiring"
        \_ For what? I took 152 with Kubi and he brought Brodersen in
           as a guest lecturer.  Broderson specializes in low energy
           mobile devices so for that matter it makes sense to say
           that a custom ASIC design that lacks any general purpose
           characteristic is the proper way to go. By the way, what
           does the W in BWRC stand for? That should answer your
           question.
        \_ who the fuck are you?  nice degree.
        \_ perhaps he's sick of buggy software coming from you people.
                \_ "... you people".  RACIST!
                   \_ that'd be SPECIEIST!
                        \_ No.  Clearly that's RACIST!  As in "You Asians all
                           look a like".  Or "You blacks are all crackheads".
                           See?  RACIST!  Races are not species.
                           \_ uh, who's the crackhead here?
        \_ I bet he meant that there will be diminishing return on investing
                in uni-processor system.  Parallel, distributed computing
                would make greater use of existing hardware.  (which is
                a much stronger statement than is said in Patterson's book..)
2000/12/14 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:20103 Activity:nil
12/13   Dear Mr. Conservative:
        Since you're so down on Clinton having no energy, foreign or
        domestic policy: What did Bush do for four years that was such
        a high standard? Go to war for oil and unleash MTBE on us is
        all I can figure that sorry whelp did. Realize that you're
        preaching to the unconvertable motd and shut up because
        no one cares about your personal Conservative Political Crusade.
2000/12/4 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:19999 Activity:nil
12/4    My GF won't speak to me after I told her about a dream I had.  I
        dreamed that I was Santa Claus and I was circle jerking with the
        elves.  We cummed on Rudolf at the end.  Is she being too tough?
        \_ Hi aspo
        \_ I dreamed I was being taken on a tour of a huge underground
           complex with machinery and caves and stuff that is actually
           http://amazon.com's headquarters.  It was being run by these weird
           creatures that live off geothermal energy, so they had these
           glowing fractal pattern fins.  In an underground lake, the
           creatures converged and fused together to form this godzilla-
           sized blue-skinned nude woman, with the http://amazon.com logo emblazoned
           on her brow.  Then I woke up.
2000/10/21-11/16 [Recreation/Dating, Science/GlobalWarming, Reference/History/WW2] UID:19544 Activity:low
10/20   What does "fu" mean?  I see them sometimes on the motd.
        \_ It's a chinese word.
        \_ Fucked Up, as in FUBAR
          \_ More commonly spelt as "foobar", so "fu" is analogous to "foo"
          which I'm sure you'd be familiar with once you've taken enough
          CS or psuedo-CS classes. FUBAR, fucked up beyond all recognition,
          army term, like SNAFU, Situation Normal, All Fucked Up.
          \_ See the Jargon File for complete info:
             http://www.tf.hut.fi/cgi-bin/jargon?search=FUBAR
             The short story, FUBAR comes from WWII (F'ed up beyond all
            repair).
            The long story, it was added to computing lexicon by dec guys,
            and FOOBAR was made famous by RFC 1639.
          \_ fu == foo!!??  No way!
             \_ 'fu' has nothing at all to do with 'foo'.  See below.  -blojo
        \_ Hungry, wasting sodans are talking about "food", but in order to
           conserve energy only speak the first phoneme.  IT wages are
           tough to make a living on.
        \_ knowledge of a subject.
           \_ advanced ability in a particular technical field. Commonly
              referred to as Expertise.
        \_ as in kung fu
            \_ "I know Kung FU!"
               \_ "Show Me"
        \_ Even Winnie the Pooh knows what "fu" means:
           /csua/tmp/winniethepooh.mpg
        \_ It's like Lucy in the sky with diamonds. -gwb
        \_ That is just because you are Bush/Gore apologist who is
           secretly in favor of communism/fascism. Admit it!
           \_ No, this sodan just prefers motd sex/no-sex talk.  Am I right?
              \_ yup. poll for working post-school males with SO's: you:
                 a) knew your SO while in school or before:
                 b) met your SO after you started working :
                 c) found my SO in a lap dance bar in SF  :
2000/10/14-16 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:19482 Activity:kinda low
10/14   who really stands to gain from violence in the mid east, especially
        violence that gets americans angry and paranoid?  average arabs and
        jews? average americans?  no way.  the oil companies.  who paid the
        terrorists to bomb a u.s. boat?  the oil companies.  go to your
        local gas station and think about who in the world is acutulaly beni-
        fiting from violence in the mideast.
        \_ politics is not a game of rationality. the area is emotionally
           charged. if the above is a plea, it's not much more profound than
           "can't we all just get along?" -ali
           \_ So why can't your people just get along?
              \_ I hope this isn't a serious question
             \_ because it's too hot and not humid enough there. -ali
                \_ But at least you never have to worry about mildew
                   in the bathroom.
2000/9/24-25 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19317 Activity:high
9/21    The Czech Republic is not a third world nation.  It is a
        \_ % webster "third world"
           [deletia]
           3 : the aggregate of the underdeveloped nations of the world
        developing nation with $11700 per capita GDP, growth rate of -0.5%
        (1999), and an external debt of 24.3 billion.  USA's per capita
        GDP is $33900.  Malaysia's per capita GDP is $10700.

        international no-car day!  see http://www.carbusters.ecn.cz
        \_ *.cz?  Like they'd miss their cars for a day in the Czech republic.
           I'd like to see something like International Fix Your Fucked Up
           Third World Country Day coming from a place like that instead.
           \_ Do you know your geography? The Czech republic is a modern
              European nation. Just because it's considered Eastern Europe
              doesn't mean that it's a Third World country.
                \_ It's not a third world country.  It's just a poor,
                   decrepit ex-Soviet-bloc nation suffering from 40+ years
                   of commie mismanagement.  Otherwise, quite nice.  -John
                   \_ What's the definition of third world then?  I thought
                      "thrid world" is the PC term to describe poor countries.
                        \_ "First" or "Old" World = Europe.  Don't forget that
                           Bohemia/western Czechoslovakia/Czech republic has
                           historically been a political and cultural center.
                           "New" World = Americas.  "Third" World was some
                           mid-20th-century play on that to describe all
                           the second-rate backwaters discovered afterwards
                           with economic problems.  -John
                           \_ % webster "first world"
                              [deletia]
                              Etymology:      after third world
                              Date:   1967
                              : the highly developed industrialized nations
                              often considered the westernized countries of
                              the world
                              apart from getting the order of usage wrong (i.e.
                              third world -> first world rather than the other
                              way around) and being ignorantly eurocentric,
                              you're correct.
                                \_ At least I speak a FOREIGN LANGUAGE, am
                                   not INCORRIGIBLY FAT, and DON'T EVER
                                   WATCH JERRY SPRINGER.  -John
                                   \_ perhaps.  but at least i knew what
                                      "first world" meant.
                                      \_ No, you know how to have your mom
                                         read a dictionary to you, and you
                                         obviously have no clue about what
                                         countries are industrialized and
                                         developed.  -John
                                         \_ you made ad hominem attacks, good.
                                            but you should throw in Hitler and
                                            the Nazis in there to distract from
                                            the fact that you had no idea what
                                            first and third world meant when
                                            you started shooting off your mouth
                                            on motd.
              \_ then it doesn't sound like he has a problem with geography,
                 does it? it's more of an economics deficiency he has.
                 \_ No deficiency.  Have you seen it?  I think you need to
                    check on what the word "modern" means.  CZ is a third
                    world country.  Just because they're vaguely white doesn't
                    make it a modern western nation.  They're little different
                    from any South American banana republic.  It isn't just
                    blacks, hispanics and other non-whites that live in the
                    Third World.  Thank you both for trying though.
                    \_ Have you ever travelled outside the Bay Area?  -John
        \_ Nobody noticed.  Some cities had even worse traffic.  Barely
           anyone even knew it was happening until they heard on the news
           what a flop it was this evening.  -John
           \_ Cars are here to stay (at least until transporters become
              generally available).
        \_ Chech know a thing or two about mechanical engineering and cars.
        Pop quiz: which Western car compay buy out entire Tatra design team,
        why they did it and what they are working on now?
        As far as being 'vaguely' white which I take as they don't quite
        fit a canonical definition of white, how to do explain
        disproporationate representation of Czech chicks among the ranks
        of 'supermodels'?       -muchandr
        \_ Volkswagen, right?  They bought Skoda too.  -John
               \_ Volkswagen is a joke. In fact all european cars are jokes.
                  The only car manufacturers that matter are American and
                  Japanese. With Japanese you get quality, with American you
                  get power. - Proud owner of a 260 HP Lincoln that routinely
                  smokes the finest that Europe has to offer.
                  \_ Bring it over here.  By the time you get up to 10mph
                     I'm halfway over the horizon, you coal-burning hairy
                     tractor-driving barbarian.  -John
                     \_ I don't want your drool lowering the value of my
                        car. Filthy commoners and thier COMMUNIST cars.
           \_ that proves they are 'vaguely'! Per the current fashion trend
           \_ When was the last time you bought a Czech car?  I don't see
              many trambant dealers around.
                \_ Moron.  Trabants were East German and they're a massive
                   cult object (like VW bugs.)  Tatra were/are a Russian truck
                   design bureau.  And Skoda (Czech) is about as big as
                   Saturn in the US.  -John
        \_ Czech supermodels are hot and slutty.
2000/9/21-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19303 Activity:high
9/21    international no-car day!  see http://www.carbusters.ecn.cz
        \_ *.cz?  Like they'd miss their cars for a day in the Czech republic.
           I'd like to see something like International Fix Your Fucked Up
           Third World Country Day coming from a place like that instead.
           \_ Do you know your geography? The Czech republic is a modern
              European nation. Just because it's considered Eastern Europe
              doesn't mean that it's a Third World country.
                \_ It's not a third world country.  It's just a poor,
                   decrepit ex-Soviet-bloc nation suffering from 40+ years
                   of commie mismanagement.  Otherwise, quite nice.  -John
                   \_ What's the definition of third world then?  I thought
                      "thrid world" is the PC term to describe poor countries.
                        \_ "First" or "Old" World = Europe.  Don't forget that
                           Bohemia/western Czechoslovakia/Czech republic has
                           historically been a political and cultural center.
                           "New" World = Americas.  "Third" World was some
        \_ Will this finally make the LINUX! RIDE BIKE! people happy?
           \_ no but it will make lotus notes save the universe.
                           mid-20th-century play on that to describe all
                           the second-rate backwaters discovered afterwards
                           with economic problems.  -John
                           \_ % webster "first world"
                              [deletia]
                              Etymology:      after third world
                              Date:   1967
                              : the highly developed industrialized nations
                              often considered the westernized countries of
                              the world
                              apart from getting the order of usage wrong (i.e.
                              third world -> first world rather than the other
                              way around) and being ignorantly eurocentric,
                              you're correct.
              \_ then it doesn't sound like he has a problem with geography,
                 does it? it's more of an economics deficiency he has.
                 \_ No deficiency.  Have you seen it?  I think you need to
                    check on what the word "modern" means.  CZ is a third
                    world country.  Just because they're vaguely white doesn't
                    make it a modern western nation.  They're little different
                    from any South American banana republic.  It isn't just
                    blacks, hispanics and other non-whites that live in the
                    Third World.  Thank you both for trying though.
                    \_ Have you ever travelled outside the Bay Area?  -John
        \_ Nobody noticed.  Some cities had even worse traffic.  Barely
           anyone even knew it was happening until they heard on the news
           what a flop it was this evening.  -John
           \_ Cars are here to stay (at least until transporters become
              generally available).
        \_ Chech know a thing or two about mechanical engineering and cars.
        Pop quiz: which Western car compay buy out entire Tatra design team,
        why they did it and what they are working on now?
        As far as being 'vaguely' white which I take as they don't quite
        fit a canonical definition of white, how to do explain
        disproporationate representation of Czech chicks among the ranks
        of 'supermodels'?       -muchandr
        \_ Volkswagen, right?  They bought Skoda too.  -John
               \_ Volkswagen is a joke. In fact all european cars are jokes.
                  The only car manufacturers that matter are American and
                  Japanese. With Japanese you get quality, with American you
                  get power. - Proud owner of a 260 HP Lincoln that routinely
                  smokes the finest that Europe has to offer.
           \_ that proves they are 'vaguely'! Per the current fashion trend
           \_ When was the last time you bought a Czech car?  I don't see
              many trambant dealers around.
                \_ Moron.  Trabants were East German and they're a massive
                   cult object (like VW bugs.)  Tatra were/are a Russian truck
                   design bureau.  And Skoda (Czech) is about as big as
                   Saturn in the US.  -John
2000/7/26 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18766 Activity:high
7/24    Is the world a better place to live with less wealthy people (who
        control 95% of the world's wealth?) Concorde kills 100 super rich
        people. Is that good or bad?
        \_ The wealth will just go to their heirs/relatives. It's not like
           it'll spread among the less fortunate.
                                     \_ read, more oppressed
        \_ They were a bunch of german tourists, which hardly makes them
           "super rich"
            \_ "bunch of german tourists" who were FLYING ON CONCORD.
               Helloooo.. Do you have ANY idea how expensive that is??!
           unless you are pointing to the fact that citizens of
           first-world countries are much richer than third-world residents in
           which case you can take your moralizing socialist ass somewhere
           else.
                \_ It costs like $2000 more than a first class ticket
                   on a normal airline, but takes like 5 hours less.  If
                   your time is worth more than $400/hr, it's a good deal.
              \_ it's a fact not a moral, as is the fact that it was
                 accomplished through imperialism
              \_ holy shit, something exciting actually happened
                 today then...
2000/7/8-9 [Reference/BayArea, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18612 Activity:very high
7/7     http://www.recycleplus.org/worksale.htm
        composting workshop tomorrow in San Jose.  Come and learn about ways
        to reduce and compost your garbage.  Keep America beautiful.
        \_ beautiful and San Jose jsut don't work together
        \_ beautiful and San Jose just don't work together
           \_ What's wrong with San Jose. - living in SJ since 82
                \_ yeah, what's wrong witb San Jose? -  since 74
                \_ yeah, what's wrong with San Jose? -  since 74
                   \_ San Josans are embarrassed to sign their names.
                      \_ that's San J0Z3RZ!!!!
        \_ Since the purpose is to help the environment, why don't they also
           post the workshop material on the web site so that people can
           choose not to burn gasoline to drive there to learn about it?  (I
           don't know if public transportation is possible.)  --- yuen
           \_ check out that site.  it has a lot of info already.  The workshop
              goes into more detail and has demos.  And they bring sample
              materials.  Composting is a see, touch, and do kind of thing. :)
              BTW, pro-environment doesn't mean "don't drive yer car".  Even
              the president of the sierra club has a car.  Since I started
              the president of the sierra club has a car.
                \_ the Sierra Club is concerned with hiking trails; they
                   don't give a shit about the environment.  -tom
              Since I started
              composting I've reduce my solid waste by about 70-80%.  If you
              are a recyler we want to turn you into composters as well.
              Check out "worm composting" you can do that in an apartment,
              without a backyard.
                \_ Uhm, I'm not sure I want to hear about your "solid waste
                   reduction....  That's nasty.
2000/6/21-22 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18505 Activity:high
6/20    It costs less for a gas dryer to dry one load of clothes than for an
        electric dryer, or for a gas heater to heat up a room than for an
        electric heater.  But does gas dryer/heater actually use less natural
        resource than the electric one to get the job done?
        \_ depends where you get your electricity from
           \_ PG&E for both gas and electricity, in the Bay Area.
        \_ I think better question to ask is rather natual gas dryer/heater
           is more "efficient" than electronic one.  And the answer is "YES."
           electricity is typically coming from some sort of hydrocarbon
           (in U.S., chances are, it's coming from burning coal).  And during
           the process of convert hydrocarbon to electricity, you typically
           will only get 65-70% efficiency on a good day.  So, in that
           sense, gas dryer/heater use "less" natural resources to achieve
           same effect.
           \_ So what's the efficiency of burning gas in a gas dryer?  Close
              to 100%?
           \_ Not coal.  That's China.  A tremendous amount of US electricity
              is coming from nuclear power plants and hydro.  Most of the rest
              is petro.  Coal?  Not in the last 50 years in this country.  Once
              the rest of the world runs out of oil, we can tap the alaskan oil
              fields and a few other places and use more nuclear before we have
              to touch the coal reserves in a serious way.
                \_ 40% of US power still comes from coal. The Mid-Atlantic
                   states are full of it. 60 Minutes showed mining companies
                   flattening the hills of Tennessee and Virginia with
                   nitroglycerin and bulldozers bigger than a Ford Expedition.
                   \_ Check out :http://www.ucsusa.org/energy/brief.coal.html
                      it details the amount of crap a coal plant makes.  --PM
                \_ Someone tell the Los Angeles Dept. of Water & Power that
                   the billions they've spent building coal-fired power plants
                   over the last twenty years is a waste of money since you
                   refuse to admit their existence.
                \_ Want to try real numbers instead of making up your own?
                   Check out http://www.energy.ca.gov/reports/2000-04-14_300-00-004.PDF
                   Some numbers:
                        1994: Southwestern US - 74% coal, 26% natural gas
                        1999: California - 20% coal, 20% hydro, 31% gas,
                                16% nuclear, 12% "renewable" (solar, wind,
                                biomass, geothermal, etc.)
                \_ My error in being unclear.  I did not intend to state that
                   coal use in this country is zero but simply that it isn't
                   at the levels of use in less developed countries like China.
                   I certainly don't refuse to admit the existence of coal
                   derived power in this country.
        \_ in the summer PG&E generates quite a bit of power in its
           gas turbine plants around the edges of the bay (those noisy little
           blue buildings with the smokestacks).  it is more efficient for
           you to generate heat by burning gas than for PG&E to turn into
           electricity (with loss) so you can turn electricy into heat
           (with more loss).
2000/5/26 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18349 Activity:nil
5/26    set the world on fire
2000/5/19-22 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18304 Activity:moderate
5/19    Can anyone confirm this event of the Commonwealth/
        Berkeley City club? ;)
        When:  June 6, 2000 7:00pm
        Where: 2315 Durant Ave, Berkeley $16 for admission
               Call 415-597-6705/6706 or 800-847-7730 for reservations
        What:  Bill Joy speaks about technology today and what we can
               expect for tomorrow.
                \_ what a fruitbasket.  How embarrassing.
                \_ Lose the smiley.
                   \_ >:(
                     \_ _                         _
                       |_|                       |_|
                       | |         /^^^\         | |
                      _| |_      (| "o" |)      _| |_
                    _| | | | _    (_---_)    _ | | | |_
                   | | | | |' |    _| |_    | `| | | | |
                   |          |   /     \   |          |
                    \        /  / /(. .)\ \  \        /
                      \    /  / /  | . |  \ \  \    /
                        \  \/ /    ||Y||    \ \/  /
                         \__/      || ||      \__/
                                   () ()
                                   || ||
                                  ooO Ooo_
                \_ Duh.  You have a phone number.  Use it, dumbshit.
        \_ robots are going to take over the world! head for the hills!
                \_ I think the hills are part of the world, too.
                   \_ (1) the robot statement was a joke and a dumb one
                      at that (2) the point was to get away from technology
2000/5/18-19 [Science/Space, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18293 Activity:very high 62%like:18302
5/18    Has anyone tested the range of those 2.4 GHz cordless phones?  My
        home is less than a mile away from my office.  Yes, I'm serious.
        \_ Why don't you just forward your calls to your office.
        \_ why would you want to broadcast your telephone conversations
           to anyone within a mile radius who happens to own a cheap
           scanner?
              2.4 GHz cordless phone?
        \_ I'm no RF expert but I never understood why higher frequency
           \_ Can cheap scanners decode transmissions from a typical
              2.4 GHz cordless phone?  The answer is no.
           \_ you're not RF expert *BUT* you don't understand?? what the
              hell does that juxtaposition mean?
        \_ I'm no RF expert so I never understood why higher frequency
           means greater range.
           \_ E =hv ??? more energies?
              \_ you're confusing equations. this is for a single particle. you
                 can transmit a 10khz signal and give it just as much energy
                 as a 10Mhz signal by uppingthe amplitude (or the intensity,
                 if you like particles). i'm no RF expert either, but I think
                 the answer is that wavelengths get interference from objects
                 of similar size. there are lots of large obstacles, so low
                 frequencies don't perform well, and there are lots of very
                 tiny obstacles, so light and doesn't do well, but somewhere
                 in between, you get good shit. -ali
                 \_ Stupid fuzzy universe.  Why wasn't Planck's constant set
                    to 0, damn it!
                 \_ ali, or someone else with clue, please explain to me
                    why IR tends to bounce around, but microwave is
                    directional
                    \_ AFAIK, it is just as ali said--that is, your wall will
                       absorb and re-emit the IR.  IR is very close to the
                       visible spectrum in wavelength whereas microwave further
                       away.  The physical transitions for visible and infrared
                       are similar, whereas microwave is different.  Hence
                       materials that reflect visible light will likely reflect
                       infrared the same or nearly the same way.  See
                       http://www.scimedia.com/chem-ed/light/em-spec.htm for a
                       spectral breakdown. -emarkp
                       \_ Huh?  All you said was that IR is like visible
                          and microwave is different.  Why does IR tend
                          to bounce around, but microwave tend to be
                          directional?
                          \_ It bounces around for the same reason that visible
                             light bounces around.  Absorption and reemission.
                             \_ Now what about microwaves?
                                \_ Microwaves are caused by molecular rotations,
                                   instead of electron level jumps.  That's why
                                   it makes stuff hot--it rotates/vibrates water
                                   molecules, and the friction warms up the
                                   food.  Broadcast microwaves have shorter
                                   wavelengths yet and ignore most atmospheric
                                   matter.  Since the matter (in the air or in
                                   your wall) isn't the right size to absorb the
                                   energy, it just goes right on by.
                 \_ Different wavelengths definetly have different absorption
                    and reflection properties.  However, I don't think
                    a 2.4 GHz signal has a longer range because of less
                    reflection/absorption.  A 2.4 GHz can bounce off
                    walls and buildings pretty easily.  One possible reason
                    for the longer range of a 2.4 GHz signal could be higher
                    bandwidth.  I think the FCC allows 80 Mhz of bandwidth
                    for 2.4 GHz signals, but don't know the numbers for
                    other frequencies.  Also there might be less interference
                    in the 2.4 GHz band than in other bands.  -emin
                    \_ what does it mean by "80Mhz of bandwidth for 2.4
                     GHz signals?  and why does microwave oven need to
                     shield the microwave from escaping while cell phone
                     uses signal in microwave region "openly"?
                     \_ Because microwaves in an 'oven' are specifically
                        tuned to vibrate water, which is in most living
                        things. But cellphone radiation supposedly is
                        on frequencies that do not affect living things.
                        Yeah, right.
                     \_ Well I'm no microwave expert but I'd say that
                        your roommate's parrot would heat a lot less quickly
                        with microwaves leaking out of your microwave
                        instead of reflecting inside.
                    \_ it means that you can transmit more signal per channel,
                       which means that you can use a higher bandwidth
                       modulation technique which is more robust to noise.
                       i think emin is actually right, and it has nothing
                       to do with reflections and transmissions. it's more
                       likely a bandwidth issue. -ali
k
2000/5/16-18 [Science/GlobalWarming, Computer/SW/Security] UID:18283 Activity:high
5/16    http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,36339,00.html

        Question: How exactly can you distinguish Voice traffic
                  from other traffic, esp. when you can tunnel it
                  over another protocol like http or you encrypt
                  it using SSL and such?
                  What the hell do the telco's want regulated?
        \_ It's just political clap trap noise.
           \_ But, technically, unencrypted voice traffic is hella
              easy to detect, regardless of protocol.  Anyone who
              knows basic signal processing can write the code.  -blojo
              \_ what's the easy trick? does the spectrum for speech look very
                 specific? -ali
                 \_ What you would basically do is: (a) look for signals
                    that have most of their energy in the 500Hz-4KHz range.
                    (b) The amount of energy and its centroid oscillate /
                    fluctuate with periods that are O(.25 seconds).
                    Basically you can look at docs for any of the recent
                    vocoders and see what circumstances they focus on
                    reproducing... fortunately recognition that something
                    is probably a voice is a lot easier than recognizing
                    what the voice is saying.   -blojo
                    \_ Key phrase: unencrypted.  Solution: encrypt it.
                        \- you know the NSA has a patent on automatically
                        IDing FAX and some other kinds of traffic. --psb
                    \_ i've got something that fluctuates at 4 Hz right down
                       here. -ali
                       \_ Wow.  That sounds painful...or unsatisfying.  Not
                          sure which....
2000/5/10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18233 Activity:nil
5/10    Is it just me, or there are simply not enough plugs for the modern
        world?
        \_ wouldn't it be nice to have wireless batteries or wireless power?
           (ludicrous)
                \_ you mean like the sun isn't wireless power?
                   \_ Solar panels on every roof! And a wind turbine that
                        sounds like a jet plane in every back yard! Uuuugly.
2000/5/6-7 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18189 Activity:low
4/07    Is it ethical to rape the third world?
        \_ foo
        \_ Rape?  No one is raping the third world.  They're selling off their
           resources for a song.  The third world needs to take responsibility
           for their own actions.  The colony era is long dead.
2000/4/16 [Finance/Banking, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:18024 Activity:high 70%like:18032
4/16    I keep seeing people protesting the IMF and the World Bank on
        the news.  Their main complaint seems to be that these organizations
        are charging interest on loans they made to third world countries.
        This seems like a lame argument because the IMF and World Bank
        are making LOANS not DONATIONS.  Are the protestors all stupid
        or are there logical reasons why the IMF and World Bank are bad?
        The news doesn't seem to present both sides of the story and I
        would like to hear a rational argument from the protestors point
        of view before forming an opinion.  Thanks. -emin
        \_ many people are protesting because the money goes to corporations
           and adds to environmental problems and does not help the poor and
           leaves the countries at the beck and call of the IMF/World Bank
           until the loans are repaid, which in the case of very poor nations
           is basically forever.
        \_ How many of those 'loans' do you see being paid back?  Many of
           the developign countries are defaulting or threatening to default
           on their loans.  Hence the desire to lower interest rates.   And,
           of course, a loan at below-market interest rates is essentially
           a form of foreign aid.
           \_ I love shotgun compassion.  "Give us your money or we will put
              you to jail, so we can give it to random corrupt governments
              elsewhere as foreign aid."
        \_ Three words: Impossible Mission Force
      __
  \__/ .\/ tweet tweet
  /     /\
  \____/
   | |
   ^ ^
2000/3/21-23 [Science/GlobalWarming, Computer/Networking] UID:17813 Activity:very high
3/20    Our current DSL service (bjt.net) sucks.  We need a good,
        high-bandwidth (1-2 megabits) DSL connection that has
        high uptime and a consistently low latency.  Anyone have
        good experiences?   -blojo
        \_ low latency's determined by the speed of light (I don't know
           of anyone who can change that yet) and distance to whatever
           you're trying to connect to.  So low latency to connect to
           what site?  And maybe queueing theory comes into play but that's
           a different story.  Latency usually isn't an issue in networks
           (except for UDP packets).  It's usually bandwidth that's
           important.
           \_ Hello, I am not a dumbass.  Our problem is that the ATM cloud
              we're fed into seems to be oversold.  So, yes, queueing theory
              comes into play here.  You need to have a higher level of
              expectation regarding the intelligence/experience of people
              on soda.  See oj's comment below.  -blojo
              \_ Say, blojo, do you have some sort of complex?  You blow up
                 everytime your overactive imagination perceives anyone even
                 slightly hinting that you may be a DUMBASS.
                \_ I don't have a complex insofar as I am aware.  I was
                   just astonished by the lameness of the post by someone
                   who seemed to think they just knew A WHOLE LOT.  Uhh
                   my imagination may be overactive but I tend to use that
          \_ Latency is HARDLY AT ALL determined by the speed of light. RTTs
                   energy imagining more interesting things than motd posts.
                      -blojo
                 \_ It's the twink-point effect, I'm telling you.
                    Just as intended.
          \_ Sign your posts, so everyone can know how dumb you are --oj
                \- when you start pushing ATM a lot of the abstraction
                breaks down and in specific areas the fundmaental technology
                difference matters. when you are pushing the switch, it may
                really start to matter how much bcast traffic or what kind
                of packet dropping heuristics they are using inside the
                switch to manage the buffering. this is hard even in the
                \_ Well, let's see.  If the speed of light were 200mph, then
                   I think you'd see a lot more latency.  (And find it very
                   hard to read, drive, fly, or many other things, but point
                   made via hyperbole).
                   \_ This is the real world we live in not your dream. In
                      reality the speed of light is not the limiting factor in
                      network speeds. That you felt the need to pull this 200
                      number out of the air merely shows how little your point
                      has to do with reality.
                packet switching world ... with the weird atm signalling
                protocols this stuff can be really hard to do right --psb
          \_ Latency is not determined solely by the speed of light.
          \_ Latency is NOT AT ALL determined by the speed of light. RTTs
             from here to the east coast are what, now, ~200ms?--but many
             times what it would take for light to travel there and back round
             trip. Latency is determined by the speed of switching
             electronics, which is much slower than light.
                \- in case your are interested, RTT to the east coast is
                higher than a lot of people think. say distance is 3000x2 mi
                and speed of light in glass is around 186288 x 60% =111800mps
                latency inside a switch is pretty small. most people use a
                send/recd buffer much smaller than the bw delay product so
                you are very much underfilling an empty pipe. --psb
                      \_ Actually, deep down the speed of light is the limiting
                         factor if you consider that the network switches
                         are literally a bunch of NMOS and PMOS transistors
                         hooked up together through polysilocon and metal
                         layers and that electron mobility is limited by
                         the speed of light which in turn limits the speed
                         by which logic circuits operate then yes, the speed
                         of light is a limiting factor.  Besides, if you read
                         carefully, the original poster never said that the
                         speed of light was THE SOLE limiting factor.
                         \_ "low latency's determined by the speed of light."
                            Looks like he came as close as you can to saying
                            that to me.
                            \_ Can you read or are you just and idiot? "low
                               latency's determined by the speed of light
                               AND however many hops you're trying to get
                               to."  I'm not going to quote exactly because
                               I'm too lazy to scroll up just for this stupid
                               post.
                                \_ Just an idiot.
                         \_ BINGO!  The other guy is a moron, though.  Of course
                            the speed of light has something to do with it.
                            What a serious super-duh to say it doesn't.  _That_
                            was the point I was making with the extreme 200mph
                            example.  It *matters*.  If sound went faster than
                            light, we'd be using that instead (somehow).  Join
                            the rest of us in the real world where the SoL does
                            matter.
                            \_ Did you pass high school physics?
                                \_ Sure did.  You pass HS English?
        \_ http://tycho.net serve your area?
        \_ FirstWorld (formerly slipnet) seems okay to me. BBNPlanet was pretty
           good too.
2000/3/16-17 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:17770 Activity:high
3/15    GE has a new oven called "advantium" and it cooks using
        halogen lights. Doesn't this seem incredibly inefficient?
        \_ Not off hand. Why would it be? I assume they are designed
           differently from normal halogen lights.
        \_ More so than, say, passing electricity through a bent-up metal
           rod until it becomes red-hot from resistance?
        \_ the purpose of an oven is to heat.  in an electric oven,
           all electric energy is convetet to heat, so it's 100% efficient
           the only machine in the universe that can be totally fefficiaent
           is a heater.  the only loss is from heat leaking out.  that
           is the *only* limiting factro to efficientcy.
                \_ And light leaking out.  Light isn't free energy.
        \_ the amount of energy required to generate a particular amount of
           heat is very high in an electric range compared to a gas one.
           \_ ok, that's just stupid.  where does the energy go if
              not into heat?  usefull heat that flows into your food
              you're trying to cook is another matter.  yes, i'm inlucing
              radiation as "heat", since if you put the burner in an
              isolated cavity it would all end up heating everything
              including your food.  the heaters that claim to be 100%
              efficient really are.
           \_ A small amount of energy goes into making the metal expand
            as it heats up, I believe.
                \- maybe there is some advantage from focusibility and
                amplification by reflection. --psb
2000/3/13-14 [Science/GlobalWarming, Computer/Rants] UID:17757 Activity:kinda low
3/13    What's up with Bill joy?
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/03/13/MN108057.DTL
        \_ He's gone loopy and joined the church of the unabomber.
           \_ He is too rich for loopy.  He is 'eccentric.'
                \_ They're in my brain!  They're eating my braaaaaaaaaaaain!!!
2000/2/22-23 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:17589 Activity:very high
2/22    This is a serious environment question.  Is it better to flush used
        toilet paper down the toilet or is it better to put it in a trash
        can and throw it out along with the rest of the garbage?  Which
        method is more "biodegradable"?  Thanks.
           \_ FYI in Soda, at least, people generally don't flush
              their toilet paper. They throw it away in a trash bin in the
              bathroom.
              \_ I thought the people in soda ate their used TP.
        \_ are you allowed to use the word "serious" in a troll?
           \_ FYI in South Korea, at least, people generally don't flush
           \_ FYI in Soda, at least, people generally don't flush
              their toilet paper. They throw it away in a trash bin in the
              bathroom.
        \_ Are toilet paper, paper napkins and paper towels recyclable?
        \_ Just keep eating it till it's all absorbed.
        \_ Don't know about toilet paper, but I once heard that it's better
           to dispose of food waste into the in-sink erator than into the trash
           can because it gets "absorbed" by the environment faster.  Don't
           know if it's true.  -- yuen
        \_ Anything that goes into a landfill these days will take centuries
           to biodegrade since landfills are hermetically sealed to prevent
           things from leaking out.  It'll get processed much faster going
           through the sewer system.
        \_ Generally you throw away your TP in countries where the plumbing
           can't handle flushing it.  Throwing it away is pretty gross if
           you don't have to.  Anyway it all gets chemically treated with
           the rest of the sewage.  -John
        \_ Does the waste water and rain that go down to the sewage on the
           side of the road go directly into the ocean?
                \_ Yes, hence the "Don't pollute.  Drains into Bay" painted
                        by all the storm drains.
                        \_ so we shouldn't even wash our cars on the
                        sidewalks?  that's impossible to implement such a
                        law...
                                \_ No you shouldn't.  Blocking the sidewalk
                                   with your car is rude.  Use a driveway or
                                   do it in the street.
                        \_ your car is probably not as dirty as the average
                           boat that sits in the ocean all the time.  boats
                           pollute. cars pollute. fish shit.  all one can do
                           is minimize it by not pouring *excessive* waste
                           into the ocean.  Having worked on a boat, I can tell
                           you there is some *nasty* shit that gets dumped
                           straight in off of most comercial vessels, that
                           makes most seepage from land polution look like
                           a drop in the bucket.  not that that stops the
                           Coast Guard from handing out 10,000 dollar fines
                           to anyone dripping oil of the side of their boat.
                           if only the USCG had juristiction over gas stations.
                                \_ i mean the detergent ppl use on washing
                                their cars..  it also goes into the ocean.
                        \_ The ocean is already full of dirt - it's toxic
                                chemicals they're more worried about.

        \_ I generally don't like the idea of other people seeing my shit
           on napkins or TP, so I just flush them down the toilet. This is
           a normal thing to do in many countries.
        \_ This is so disgusting.  Flush it and remember that you live in the
           first world.
           \_ This is in direct contradiction to my ride bike mentality.
              Since we live in the first world, we have to act like the
              best people, since we know so much more. And bicylcing
              is a pro-resource method concerned for the environment.
              Think bicycle. Think first world. The answer to flushing
              or throwing out toilet paper will come to you in your heart.
                \_ Yeah, it goes down the toilet so I don't have to live in
                   my own third world filth and squalor and disease and the
                   reek from my own festering shit in the trash can for three
                   days until the putrid feces filled bag is finally removed.
                   Ride bike == live in your own shit?  Mine is disposed of
                   properly, not like some animal or barbarian leaving it
                   where ever it may fall.  Disgusting.
              \_ Personally, I am willing to say what many probably think but
                 don't want to say.  I don't give a shit about the environment.
                 I only care about my own immediate comfort and well being.
                 If we fuck up the environment, science will fix it later.
                 It's ok.  Environment is not as fragile as you think.
                 It is man's great hubris to think that he is "controling
                 nature."  Even in polluting he fulfills nature's purpose.
                 \_ I sort of agree but in a different sense.  For the most
                    part, no matter what we do to the planet, life will go on.
                    It just may not be human life or life as we know it'.  I
                    don't have a problem with that.  I *do* have a problem
                    with barbarians leaving feces stained paper in a public
                    trash can for _any_ reason.
2000/2/18-21 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:17561 Activity:moderate 66%like:18362
2/18    Where's a good place in Berkeley for an oil/filter change?
        \_ Do it yourself, it's not very hard (about 20 minutes) -- ilyas
           \_ Maybe they don't care to?  Maybe the $30 is worth it to not
              spend the time and crawl around under a car?  Not everyone is
              dirt poor.  My cheapest outfit is worth more than that without
              oil and dirt on it.  My time is worth more as well.
              \_ It's a useful skill to know.  By the way, you DO know that
                 you don't even need to use jacks on most modern cars when
                 changing oil, right? -- ilyas
                 \_ I don't care.  It isn't useful.  I don't *have* to know.
                    It isn't important.  I'm not a starving student.
              \_ Why do you have to be so insolent about it? how does it
                 feel to know that "dirt poor" people who get their hands
                 dirty *gasp* at work are laughing as they charge you $30
                 for a job that costs a few bucks at most and takes 5
                 minutes of their time?
        \_ There's a place on the east side of San Pablo just a bit north
           of University (I think it's right next to a burger place) that
           does oil changes for $13.  That price might have been a special,
           though.
                    \_ It may come in useful someday.  It isn't a waste of my
                       time because I, personally, find a certain pleasure in
                       finding out a little bit about how my car (or any other
                       mechanical/electronic device I own) functions. -- ilyas
                        \_ Knowing how to change a tire in the middle of the
                           desert is useful.  My oil?  I'm glad you have the
                           time for the trivial.  Someone should.
           \_ Hey ilyas, hope you dispose of your used oil nicely. --enviro
              \_ I covered the nearest baby seal I could find with it. -- ilyas
                 \_ ilyas!  Surely you remembered to whack it with your
                    club before you left?
                 \_ thanks. but seriously...! --enviro
                        \_ So how is a good way to dispose of used oil?
        \_*not* campus auto care.  They overcharge.
2000/2/16-17 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:17527 Activity:moderate
2/15    I would like to see how many Watts my computer is using at any
        given time.  Someone told me Poptronics (Popular Electronics)
        had an article on building an energy usage meter for any wall
        outlet appliance.  Can anyone help?
        \_ Buy the old issue.
no emacs user was here
        \_ Go outside and look at how fast your electricity meter is spinning.
2000/1/17-19 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:17255 Activity:moderate
1/17    As revealed first on the motd, transmeta's hype turns out to be little
        more than just that.  In only 2 days you'll see how the hype machine
        has turned greater-than-MS vapor into "We rethought the microprocessor
        to create a whole new world of mobility".  Crusoe is going to be nice
        but not truly ground breaking.  Another babystep in the high tech world
        over hyped, over sold, and under powered.  You saw it here, first, not
        slashdot, not zdtv, not cnn.
        \_ OH Y3AH!!!?!??!????  1 B3L13VE 1N L1NUS!!!1!!!  L1NUX RUL3Z, U
           DR00L!!!!1!!!  U R A D00DYH3AD!!!1!!  U SAW 1T H3R3 F1RST!!1!!
                \- does the name come from "meta transistor"? also, anyone
                know if "super secret microunity" is still in business? --psb
                   \_ microlunacy is dead, and has been for several years.
                      was/is there a son of microlunacy?
                        \_ There is no Son of Microlunacy.  There is only ZUUL.
        \_ Beware the dark side, it lurks everywhere!
2000/1/6 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:17178 Activity:nil
1/6     Y2K is overhyped! There was no nuclear explosion, power outage,
        \_ ^Y2K^SexwithYerMom
        terrorists rampage, etc. What a dissappointment!
2000/1/1 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:17139 Activity:high
12/31   Was the Y2K bug that big of a deal? Looks like its effects are
        small and sporadic, so far. Would it have made that much of a
        difference in terms of power/phones shutting off, etc, if people
        didn't try to make everything compliant?
        \_ It isn't over yet, fool.  The U.S. hasn't rolled into Y2k yet! How
           can you be so naive?  The Rapture is coming!
           \_ Wrong. Guam was one of the first to enter 2000.
                \_ Guam is a tiny speck of nothing territory.  It isn't a part
                   of the United _States_.  We _own_ it.  They also don't have
                   any nuclear power plants.  So young, so foolish.
        \_ "Better safe than sorry" -- more true today than at any time in
           human history.
1999/11/23-24 [Science/GlobalWarming, Recreation/Humor] UID:16948 Activity:low
11/22   <DEAD>www.stanfordalumni.com/articles/99_1_microsoft_buys_su.html<DEAD>
        \_ Joke?
           \_ Okay, obviously there are complete and utter morons on soda.
              Apologies to the person flamed in the previous item.
              \_ Apology accepted. In today's world, I've learned not to
                 make assumptions about anything.
        \_ Does someone want to mirror this?  I can't get throught 8.-(
1999/11/15-16 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:16886 Activity:high
11/14   What is the "zero emission rule"? That all car makers need to produce
        electric cars by year 20XX? I don't get why e-cars are considered
        zero emission. If many drive a electric cars, wouldn't there be a
        bigger demand on power plants that also pollute?
        \_ Electric cars are all about making you dependant on the Government
           and attacking your manhood.
        \_ 1) Power plants tend to have more effecient generators
           2) Power plants are one location and therefore it is easier to
              reduce emmisions at that one point with strict enforcement
              of pollution laws.
           3) There is clean power (but then again we are using it already...)
           4) Power plants tend not to be in high polution areas.  One of the
              major problems with pollution is the concentration in one area.
              Spread the pollution around some and it can b ehandled by
              natural means.
              \_ also there is the fact that it's alot easier logistically
                 to convert centralized power generation to new sources
                 than individual energy sources from cars;  If fusion
                 became practical in the near future, say with those big
                 tokomak reactors, there'sno way you could use that for cars
                 unless they were electric  and the energy was generated
                 in a cetral location.  this means that people working on
                 alternative energy like fusion can wroy less about
                 scaling problems, and be assured that they can make billions
                 and help the environment quickly, rather than having to deal
                 with auto manufacturers and their ilk.
                \_ Ah I see. Zero emission simply means "pollute somewhere
                   else"... and that reduces the amount of pollution which
                   will slow down global warming. Sure, that makes sense now.
                   \_ What parts of 1, 2 and 3 didn't you understand?  Also
                      many forms of pollution can be disposed of by the
                      ecosystem in limited amounts.  The problem is places
                      have gone way above those amounts.
1999/8/24-25 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:16383 Activity:nil
8/23    http://www.eet.com/story/OEG19990823S0062
        KEENE, England - Building on research done at Keele University,
        startup Keele High Density Ltd. aims to commercialize a memory
        technology it says could store 2,300 Gbytes of rewritable
        random-access data on a device the size of a credit card. That is
        equivalent to an areal density of 86 Gbytes per square centimeter.
        --jon
        \_ Thiis is complete crap. The only way to increase information
        density is to decrease the physical size of a bit, which is
        currently about 1 square micron on optical devices. The only
        feasible way to do
        this is using near-field techniques to read an write bits much smaller
        than the wavelength of light, but you can't use it for multilayer
        devices, and its somewhat like CD or DVD technology in that everyone has
        a finger in the pie.
                \_ It's possible they have developed something completely new
                   but I doubt it.  It's a hoax.
        \_ Old news.  They have nothing but a theory, and I've read some
           other stuff which says this can't be verified by calling the
           University.  This is likely a hoax at worst, a pipe dream at
           best.
1999/8/21-22 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:16367 Activity:nil
8/21    Give a hoot.  Don't pollute!
1999/6/9-12 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:15931 Activity:kinda low
6/9     Yet another Nobel prize for Berkeley:
        http://enews.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/elements-116-118.html
        \_ nobel prize, huh?  possibly, but unlikely i think.
        \_ wel gee, I could get a nobel prize too, if I had an
           umpty-billion-dollar  cyclotron, and free license to play around
              as I see fit.
           \_ D00D!!!1!!!!  CYKLOTR0NS R 4 PUSS13Z!!!!1!!!1!!!!!  ALL U N33D
              2 G3T A N0B3L PR13Z 1Z A TRUSTY C=64 ---- 1F UR *DAMN G00D*!!1!
                \_ I had a cyclotron once, but then the aliens came and took
                   it away just as I was about to discover The Truth.
                   \_ That's right -- and they gave it to *me*, because they
                      liked me better!  Nyah!
        \_ Go Bears
1999/6/9-10 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics] UID:15927 Activity:nil
6/8     http://www.enn.com/enn-news-archive/1999/01/012299/congest.asp
1999/6/9-10 [Science/Space, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:15926 Activity:high
6/9     Warp drive coming soon to a planet near you...
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_364000/364496.stm
        I love science.  Every couple of months you hear something like: "We
        thought it would take us 100000000*X to do Y, but with this new
        discovery we can now do it in only X!"  Once in a while I get giddy
        thinking that every wildly positive sci-fi conjecture will be reality
        in my lifetime (assuming that life-extension technolgy keeps up with
        everything else!)... -mogul
        \_ This is some awesome news!  However, did Chris Van Den Broeck also
           researched on what kind of effects the distortion of the
           time-space continuum has on other things, such as our universe?
           I was going to post this question at the site, but couldn't find
           the right place to do so there.
        \_ This is by someone from a Catholic University?  I thought they're
           still busy arguing that human didn't evolve from apes.
        \_ what ever happened to that dude (it was Rivest I think) that
           came up with some factoring algorithm - I saw some legitimate
           wire reports a month ago but didn't follow up on them - although
           I imagine if it were true media info was quickly squashed
           I imagine if it were true media info was quickly squished
           \_ if I remember correctly, he had a linear speed-up that simply
              pushed the crackable key size forward a few years. there was
              no real theoretical breakthrough that would invalidate
              public-key technology.  the moral of the story was to start
              using >1500 bit keys today.
1999/5/20-21 [Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:15851 Activity:moderate
5/20    what do people who have read it think of cryptonomicron?  is
        it worth the hardback price?
        \_ I found it interesting but difficult to "believe in" because it
           was set in the real world -- unlike other Stephenson which is more
           science fiction and doesn't really allude to actual history or
           current events.  In other words, this is a more realistic novel
           than his other stuff, and I think I had a hard time with that.
           You will learn something from it.  (Oh, there's a long section
           on undersea cables -- fancy that!)  Allusions to actual 1990s
           stuff abounds: "Eutropians", "Finux", counterparts of PGP and
           the Cypherpunks...  I'd say you should try to borrow someone's
           copy and see whether or not you get into it before buying a copy
           of your own.  -- schoen
           \_ If you do buy it, http://amazon.com is selling it for way less
              than any bookstore.
              \_ yeah, got mine for $16 instead of $27
           \_ Random Trivia:  Many people waiting for SW:TPM had it.
1999/5/12 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:15798 Activity:nil
5/11    BOMBAY (Reuters) - Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee said
        Tuesday the threat to world peace posed by NATO's ''naked aggression''
        in Yugoslavia further justified India's nuclear testing program.
        http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/082237.htm
1999/3/22-24 [Recreation/Dating, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:15624 Activity:very high
3/22    The world would be a better place if we were all a little more
        like psb.  This is truth: meditate upon it now.
        \_ What about psb in particular?
           \_ All of psb is good and desirable -- pick any aspect you want.
                \-what broght this on? --psb
                         \_ anyone else find this extremely funny?
                  \_ your existence?
                     \_ Did he say something really profound recently?
                        \_ Does psb ever say anything that's *not* profound?
                           \_ If psb ever says anything that seems less than
                              profound, withdraw for a period of study and
                              deep inner meditation.  Only then will you gain
                              enlightenment and divine the true meaning of
                              the statements of Master psb.
                                \_ What does psb look like? I want to ask her
                                   out on a date if she's cute. -csua nerd
                                   \_ psb is _HOT_.  Men *and* women alike
                                      often find themselves unable to resist
                                      his overpowering attraction.
                                \- er, the only thing remotely obscure
                                i think i have said online recently had
                                to do some aspects of 11/12th century law.
                                did that bring this on, or something else?--psb
                                \_ maybe the "destroy most white people" quote?
         \_ it's called "picking and choosing"
                \_ Partha just sounds like a girl's name.  Anything ending
                   in 'a' should be a girl's name.  Maria, Pamela, Partha,
                   Monica, Mala, etc.
                   Monica, Mala, Martha, Siddhartha (oops) etc.
                        \- domt blame my me or my parents. blame the english
                        language. in sanskrit there is a M and F version of
                        the word but they map to the same thing in low-res
                        english. the F version isnt a name for complicated
                        reasons that require knowledge of hindu mythology --psb
1999/2/15-16 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:15415 Activity:high
        1/3 of the people in art, music, archeology, teaching profession, etc
        said yes. Almost all of the people in high tech industry said yes.
        What does this imply?
        \_ that "high tech" is a lot harder than those other fuzzy jobs.
        \_ that "art" people are folks who take crap for pay because they
           like what they do. Therefore, them suddenly getting a decent
           amount of money, has no influence on what they want to do.
        \_ That 2/3rds of fuzzy people lack the imagination to do anything
           more with their lives than the shit work they do now?
           \_ let's see, the high tech people who quit to do world travel,
                write the Great American Novel, learn how to play instruments,
                go afar to learn about history, etc have less imagination than
                the people who already do these things for career? Very logical
                \_ Anyone see office space?  2 girls at once.  --sky
                \_ Maybe we went to a different high school, but none of my
                   teachers were writing the great american anything, playing
                   instruments, or travelling the world.  Your teachers wrote
                   great works of literature and travelled the world as a
                   career?  I'm in the wrong field.  What HS was this?
1998/12/18 [Politics/Domestic, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:15123 Activity:nil
12/17     The US government is way too immoral. I find it amazing how
a government that goes about preaching "democracy" and how
"democratic" and "free" it is, can go to the length of bombing
innocent people to protect its dirty interests.
  I could *even* understand Desert Storm as means of freeing
Kuwait, even though that wasn't the reason for the attack.
Financial matters came a long way before. But I just can't
believe in laying waste to someone else, far away from yourself,
because they aren't following *your* rules. Who does this
government think it is? How long will the rest of the world
just watch this butchery without acting? And when it does,
things might get messy! England is, of course, excluded from
this "rest of the world", since all it is is a US puppy,
happily yapping along and following whatever it is told.
  This is just plain immoral. I hope the responsible ones go
down.
1998/11/23-1999/2/2 [Science/GlobalWarming, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:15001 Activity:nil 62%like:14984
11/19   All files in /csua/pub/jobs have been made world-accessible -brg
1998/11/20-23 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:14987 Activity:nil 66%like:14681
11/19   Nuclear launch detected.
        \_ I see your ghost.
        \_ Pants-rocket launch detected.
          \_ schwing!
1998/11/19-23 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:14984 Activity:nil 62%like:15001
11/19   All files in /csua/pub/jobs have been made world-accessible. If your
        job listings have expired, please delete them, don't just chmod them
        world-unreadable. -brg
1998/10/29-31 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:14852 Activity:moderate
10/28   http://www.salonmagazine.com/news/1998/10/27newsb.html has an
        interesting take on Proposition 9.  Anyone know of other good
        voting information sites?
        \_ on localhost in /dev/null...personaly I am trying to find out
           how to get my ballot in chines alowing make to make
           how to get my ballot in chines allowing me to make
           a provably random selection.

Idiocy deleted.
        \_ You forgot to delete the rest of the motd, including this thread.
                \_ I didn't say "all idiocy deleted"
I was forwarded this from a co-worker. I did this and I'm telling you, it's
really weird.  Follow the directions slowly, and do not go forward until told
to do so.  I think you will find this really eerie(and very true...).

This is quite amazing but its fun and seems to work!!

Enjoy!!

SPOOKY - Do this its quite wierd...

First things first:

NO CHEATING

Really.  I mean it.

Don't cheat.

This is a little game that has a pretty funny/creepy outcome.  Don't read
ahead, just do it in order.  It takes about 3 minutes It's worth it.  It's
kinda eerie....

First, Get a blank piece of paper and pen.

P.S. When you are asked to choose names, make sure it's people you ACTUALLY
KNOW, and go with your first instincts!

Scroll down one line at a time - don't read ahead or you'll ruin the fun!!

1.) First, write the numbers 1 through 11 in a column.

2.) Then, beside numbers 1 and 2, write any two numbers you want.

3.) Beside the 3 and 7, write down the names of members of the opposite sex
(or same sex if you're gay).  Don't look ahead-or it won't turn out right!

4.) Write anyone's name (like friends or family...) in the 4th, 5th and 6th
spots.  Don't cheat or you'll be upset that you did.

5.) Write down four song titles in 8, 9, 10 and 11.

6.) Finally, make a wish.....

And here is the key for that game..

1.)  You must tell (the number in space 2) people about this game in (the
number in space 1) days in order to make your wish come true.

2.)  The person in space 3 is the one that you love.

3.) The person in 7 is one you like but can't work out.

4.) You care most about the person you put in 4.

5.) The person you name in number 5 is the one who knows you very well.

6.) The person you name in 6 is your lucky star (I have no idea what this
means but it sounds good!)

7.) The song in 8 is the song that matches with the person in 3

8.) The title in 9 is the song for the person in 7.

9.) The tenth space is the song that tells you most about your mind.

10.) And 11 is the song telling how you feel about life!

                       GOOD LUCK!
Idiocy deleted again.
1998/9/26-28 [Recreation/Computer, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:14681 Activity:high 66%like:14987
9/26    Nuclear Launch Detected
        \_ Look for the red dot!!! For God's sake look for the red dot!!!
           \_ COMSAT!
           \_ damn those ghosts! if it's not lockdown, it's the nuke!
           \_ How plausible is it that you nuke a bunker, and all the people
              inside survive without a scratch?
        \_ Details?
           \_ You don't want to know anything beyond "someone needs to cut
              back on playing Starcraft and get a life."
              \_ What's wrong with having some fun? CSUA a fun-free zone?
                \_ there's a difference between having an interst in having fun
                   and being obsessed.
                   \_ Granted. But the above statements are far from obsessed,
                      imho. Then again, it is hard to read into something
                      without context (facial expressions, voice levels, etc)
              \_ Don't play co-op LAN Rainbow 6.  It's too much fun. :O
1998/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Science/Space, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:14610 Activity:kinda low
9/15    What consumes more power, an empty refrigerator or
        a full refrigerator?
        \_ on startup from an unpowered condition, the full one does
           because you need to cool down a larger amount of stuff
           (most solids/liquids have a higher spec.heat than air)
           but say you have everything cooled down, a sort of steady
           state and you pull the power, then the full fridge will
           stay cooler longer due to the higher "heat mass"  One could
           similarly say that the full fridge requires less energy per
           unit time to maintain a low temperature as all the frozen
           veggies and meat and other things with high water content
           maintain their temperature much better than air.  Of course,
           if you dont plug either fridge in at all, then its a tie,
           though in a strict sense the full one will absorb more heat
           but will give up less heat given a rise or drop in temp. --jon
                \-well there is also the pathological case of say rotting/
                fermeting food which is exothermic. --psb
                \_ is hell exothermic or endothermic? - tpc
                   \_ ~dpc/forwards/hell
                      \_ amusing. But the cited professor was most definately
                         not the original one, as I heard the "final exam"
                         version of this, some time in 1995 or before.
                         (different response cited, though)
        \_ how often one opens and closes a refrigerator really affects how
           much power it uses, more than how much it contains.
           \_ this is true but the question was about the effect of fullness
              on power consumption.

Reminder!  Special Session of Micronet THURSDAY:
        Speaker:        Calvin Moore, Professor and Chair, Math Dept.,
                        and Chair of the Commission on Computing.
                        Prof. Moore will be discussing the
                        commission's recent report on the future
                        orginizational direction of computing on
                        the UCB campus.  The commission was
                        mostly made up of faculty, so this is a
                        chance for staff to give feedback.
                        The URL for the report is:
                        link:www.chance.berkeley.edu/evcp/new.html
        Time/Date:      12-2pm, THURSDAY 9/17/98
        Location:       223 Moses Hall
        \_ Staff feedback?  They needed more landfill material?
           The only thing more ridiculous than staff feedback is student
           feedback.
           \_ There were two students on the commission.
                \_ Woo woo! Power to the people!  They served drinks?
1998/8/26 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:14515 Activity:nil
8/25    Miss Internt World Singapore!!
        \_ URL for pics?
           \_ http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_lggraph_display/0,3442,2131529,00.html
        \_ Naked?  Sucking some white guy's cock?
            \_ You seem to enjoy cock sucking very much.  Why don't u
               suck mine.  I will stick it up your ass for free too.
                \_ Sounds good - come over tonite ---psb
1998/5/29-30 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:14153 Activity:moderate
5/29  Stupid move by India.  Supposedly they're a year away from fitting
      a nuclear warhead to a missile.  Someone's gonna get nuked.  -mlee
      \_ Didn't Pakistan just announce yesterday they already have a nuke
         missile ready and aimed at India?
      \_ Meanwhile 500 people die in India from the heat.
        \_ and a couple hundred million others don't have enough to eat
           \_ Why do you think they feel such a need to expand? --dim
                \_ they don't go hungry for lack of land, the causes
                 are political
           \_ I can't think of a quicker way to get rid of excess population
              than a little nuclear war.  I say let them have at it!  We
              shoulda saved them the trouble and just sold them the nukes.
        \_ only 500?  In a country of 1+ billion, who noticed?
1998/5/20-21 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:14111 Activity:high
5/20    campus-wide power outage and a satellite goes spinning out of control.
        is this all because of the coming of the millenium?
        now, I'm really scared.
        \_ makes life much more interesting than DOJ vs MS...
        \_ No.  It's the arrival of Godzilla.
                \_ Can't wait to see India's reaction to Godzilla movie.
                   \_ Uhm.. what reaction?  Its a friggin movie.
                      \_ D00D!!!1!!!  THAT"Z WHUT U TH1NK, U 1GN0R3NT M3D1A
                         SH33P!!1!  TH3 R3L3AS3 UV "GODZ1LLA" AZ A MAJ0R
                         AM3R1KAN M0V13 W1LL CAUS3 1ND1A 2 R3L3AS3 TH3
                         D3TA1LS UV 1T"Z S3CR3T "DEV3L0P A G1ANT L1ZURD 2
                         D3STR0Y PAK1STAN && CH1NA!!" PR0GRAM!!!1!!!!!!!!
                         WATCH, N" Y0U"LL S33!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!1!!
                  \_  Yes, Godzilla was always such a great morality tale
                        about AMERICANS nuking Japan, but American holywood
                        producers couldn't handle that so they blamed it on
                        the French.  At least, Jean Reno came to save the
                        day.  And exactly why did they need to hire that worm
                        guy?  To get his expertise on telling them they need
                        to open up manholes?  Jean Reno should have just used
                        his knife against that overgrown lizard and skip the
                        whole unnecessary Mathew Broderick and his weak
                        pathetic girlfriend as a romantic interest subplot.
                                                -mlee
                \_ BURRRRRP... i 8 tokyo N new york...
                \_ it only breathed fire twice... thumbs down.
                   \_ Fire?  The Japanese Godzilla breathed energy (if that
                      makes any sense).  I suppose a huge lizard eating NY or
                      Tokyo doesn't make much sense either so it doesn't
                      matter.
                \_ Destroy All Monsters! (DAM)
1998/5/12-13 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:14087 Activity:very high
5/12    India underground nuclear test, sending shockwave all over the world:
        http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9805/12/clinton.india/index.html
        \_ Now I know why there are so many Indian engineers at Berkeley.
           \_ bwahahahaha...
           \_ for the beautiful, mustache-free hot babes!
        \_ Great .  Another third world shithole with the bomb.
                \_ You only prove your own ignorance as India has had "the
                bomb" for quite awhile now.  Why not try knowing at least
                a little bit of which you speak before you open your mouth?
                                          -mlee
                \_ More like, "The third world shithole has proven for a fact
                   they have the bomb, whereas before it was only assumed."
                   \_ Fact: India's 1st public nuke test was back
                      some time.  The only nazi country that is assumed
                      in 1974. They've had it for a while.
                   \_ India has publicly tested nuclear weapon for quite
                      some time.  The only Nazi country that is assumed
                      (but widely confirmed) to stockpile nuclear weapon is
                      U.S. buddy Israel, after South Africa cancelled their
                      program.
                      \_ Nazi?  Israel?  You scumbag.  Without nukes, the
                         dirtbag Arabs would have attacked and kept attacking
                         en mass and by surprise until all the Jews were dead.
                        \_ If the Palestinians had not been driven out of their
                           homes to make room for the "chosen" race to build
                           their 1000-year "promised" kingdom, they  wouldn't
                           have taken up arms and become freedom fighters.
                         \_ GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
                           \_ "can't we all just get along together?"
                      \_ so why did they start targetting the USSR too?
                         \_ Because they're homophobes and the Soviets are
                            all gay. That's right. They pound more than
                            just vodka. What do you think those spires on
                            that palace in the Kremlin are all about?
                            \_ One nuke under the dOME of the Rock.
                               It is "resting"
1998/5/1 [Science/GlobalWarming, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Reference/History/WW2] UID:14028 Activity:very high
5/1     /- Join the CSUA Communist Party. Coders of the World Unite! -politburo
                \_ bh is the ultimate commie.
                \_ Long Live the CSUA Revolutionary International!
1998/4/13 [Science/GlobalWarming, Science/Physics] UID:13945 Activity:nil
4/11    Sandia said a few days ago that they think they can get high-yield
        nuclear fusion in a bit over a decade.  Does anyone believe them or
        have more information?  If it's true, it would be a Good Thing.
        \_  I'd love to read this.  Give me a ref?  I'll follow up
            with my opinion on it...  --PeterM
                \_ http://www.sandia.gov/media/z.htm
                \_ It is capital Z, yet htm extension. Weird.   -muchandr
                \-i was talking about commercial fusion power with a friend
        of the family who works on fusion at LLL maybe 1.5 yrs ago, and he
        said the press that implied it was "right around the corner, early
        21st cent" were way off. "not in this decade". --psb
        \_ Check out latest issue of Discover.  There's a proposal of using
           proton-boron reaction instead of conventional deuterium.  -- cm1ee
           \_ Saw the origional of that in Science a few months ago.  Mostly
                an "on paper" proposal.  Nothing much more than that.
1998/1/29 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:13591 Activity:insanely high
1/29    http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate --chris
                \_ ugh, this has been around for a while now and was written
                        up in many places, pun and all. Duh.
        \_La soude n'est rien mais un morceau de dick sucant la merde!
1997/4/25 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:32125 Activity:nil
             Motd from http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu
            The CSUA's Sequent S81 space heater
         With optional Nuclear Toaster Attachment
         ========================================
1996/12/18 [Science/GlobalWarming, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:32012 Activity:nil
12/17  News flash, Berkeley team wins world netrek championship.
        \_ You know it! You tell the story! You tell the whole
           damned world this is bear territory!!!
         \_ Many thanks to the CSUA for supporting netrek for all these
            years.  We couldn't have done it without you.  -tom
1996/10/28 [Science, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:31962 Activity:nil
10/27   Hey!  It's our own cdaveb!  On the back page of the Business/Technology
        section of the Sunday SF Chron/Ex!  Go buy a copy now!
        \_ Was she cute?
           \_ Yes, and so is her husband. -- Marco (-8
           \_ She was interviewed, not pictured, since unlike sexist pigs
         such as you, others realize she is an intelligent person with
         something interesting to say, no matter what she may or may
         not look like.  -- a soda male who has no idea what she
         looks like, but knows what type of person she is via walls
         \_ No one in real life is like they are on walls.
         \_ Speaking from experience, she has poor taste in cuisine,
            art, and music, and her technology skills are rudimentary
            at best.  - psb
          \_ "Speaking from experience"?  Are you courting my
           wife? - Mr. cdaveb
         \_Partha's just jealous he isn't in the paper
         \_ If style, grace, charm, wit, social skills, and technology
          skills summed to a constant, I would fear Mr. Psb as
          a programmer.  Gee, Cari managed to graduate and
          get a real job in under four years. -ekim
           \_ and partha is our resident Martha Stewart
            \_ partha, go pick on the xcf instead.  leave
               cari alone.  --chris
            \_ cuisine, art & music are all personal preference - what
          you consider poor, others may love - and at least
          she's not afraid of computers, she may not be an
          expert, but learning UNIX, perl, html, etc.
          makes her much more computer-literate than
          99% of americans
          \_ Unfortunately, this is not a difficult achievement
           \_ for csua members, no - go hang out with
              people in the real world - non-technical
              types and realize just how stupid the
              average american really is these days
             \_ neither is having more clue than partha
1996/5/7 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:31838 Activity:nil
5/6     As Voltron's legend grew, peace grew across the galaxy.
        \_ Voltron REWLZZZZ!!!!
           \_ Agreed. But why does Voltron only pull out his sword when
              he's getting the crap beaten outta him? I guess it would
              make for a very short show if he used it initially.
         \_Actually, they talk about that in the show.  The
           more powerful abilities of Voltron (combining up,
           the sword, and so forth) use up a lot of nuclear
           energy, so they're last-ditch powers. -thepro
        \_ LASER SWORD!!!  Yeah, I keep on wondering why they wait till
         so long before they use the sword.
        \_ Has Voltron returned to TV land again? If so where and when?
             \_ USA has been showing it for years.
        \_ Voltron is a Wuss.  _Star Blazers_ R0CKS.  you kiddies are
            probably too young to remeber that truely g00d show though.
             -crebbs
          \_ I used to watch it on ch. 36 all the time.  I can almost remember
             the theme song.
          \_ it was originally called Spacecruiser Yamato -- the movie was gr8
              \_ Try Gunbuster. Much better. Has got both romance and things
           going boom.
           \_ And large breastisis.
         \_ jiggling "breastisis" at that
        \_ Here he comes.. here comes speed racer..
           \_ Maha gogo maha gogo maha gogogo! (for those in the know)
1993/9/10 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:31392 Activity:nil
9/10    *HH* deemed threat to world.  News at 11.
        \_ If he's a threat to the world, why wait until 11 to tell us?
2017/10/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/18   
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