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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2018/11/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/8/1 [Reference/Tax] UID:29204 Activity:insanely high
8/1     Do people actually believe Bush's tax cut has turned around the
        economy?  It appears that the economy has turned up on its own
        before the tax refunds triggle down to people pocket.
        (no, this is not an attack on Bush.  Most of the economic
        stimulus packages in history kicked in after the economy has
        turned around on its own).  Can we somehow partition to cancel
        the tax cut?
        \_ Yes. No, it hasn't turned around, it merely stopped getting worse.
           Not true.  No, you can't "petition" to stop the "trickle down".
           Go away, troll.
        \_ More partisan bullshit- 1) tax cuts started two years ago
           2) economy is still weak.  3) the 'official recession'
           happened during a fiscal year put forth by Clinton.
           \_ don't bring facts into this.
        \_ the tax cut was never about turning aruond the economy. it was
           about tax cuts for the wealthy.  Just like the iraq war was
           never really about WMD's.
                \_ You wanted tax cuts for the poor then?  THEY DON'T PAY
                   TAXES!!!  Duh.  That's always been the lamest line
                   against tax cuts.  Yeah I think it's unfair that someone
                   paying $500k a year in taxes will be paying $450k a year
                   in the future thus getting $50k a year on it while the
                   drunken bum I step over every morning to get into the
                   office will be getting $5 a year in cuts.  That bum should
                   get the same $50k/year in cuts, right?  Let's give the bum
                   a cash credit of $49,995 a year to make it 'fair'.
                   \_ I hate to bring facts into this, but the poor pay
                      a larger percentage of their income as taxes:
                      \_ but they fail to mention they get it all back
                         in the refund at tax time
                         \_ I didn't know payroll taxes were refunded to the
                            poor ...
                            \_ They're not.  The poor are getting money back in
                               the form of various free services such as free
                               medical care, housing, etc.  What do you think
                               pays for all that stuff?  Mana from heaven?
                \_ My mom runs a small business.  She got an appreciable tax
                   break.  That's a good thing.  -John
                   \_ Therefore she must be a leech sucking off the hard work
                      of the little people.  Anyone making $50k or more is
                      wealthy to the socialists in the Gore/Dean side of the
                      Democratic party.
                        \_ Note the "small".  She does not make $50k/year.  Have
                           you ever wondered why in every poll taken, more
                                \_ They're deluded.  Small estates rarely
                                   feel the real pain of inheritance taxes.
                           not-too-well-off entrepreneurs oppose things like
                           inheritance taxes than billionaires, by percentage?
                           Land of opportunity and all that..kind of makes you
                           wonder.  -John
                           \_ They're deluded.  Small estates rarely feel the
                              real pain of inheritance taxes.
                              \_ Question of principle.  Maybe naive, but
                                 there's the dream of making it... -John
                              \_ Bullshit.  As the going-to-be-someday-
                                 hopefully-in-the-far-distant-future inheritor
                                 of a small estate I can assure you when all
                                 is said and done the government will have got
                                 a *lot* more of it than me since it got taxed
                                 already, and will get taxed again before any
                                 comes my way.  It won't be a small estate
                                 when it's done.  It'll be a nice car and a
                                 _part_ of my mortgage, maybe.
        \_ Economy will appear to do ok until middle of next year,
           then drop back into recession late next year when the
           stimuli run out of gas.
           \_ The idea is to give the economy a kick so it'll get going on
              it's own.  The government shouldn't have to continuously
              stimulate the economy.  That just causes inflation.  C'mon
              people, take Econ1 or something.  This is all *really* basic.
              Read the business section once a week.  Do *something* to
              educate yourselves.
              \_ Nothing wrong with the idea, but it doesn't always
                 work.  Also, tax cuts for the very rich doesn't give
                 economy much of a kick, at least according to Warren
                 Buffet.  Similarly, big spendings on defense is not
                 the best way to stimulate the economy, not that
                 big defense spending is necessarily wrong.  You are
                 being sophomoric.
                 \_ I don't take economic advice from people who aren't in any
                    way hurt by any economic policy in this country short of
                    total seizure.  Buffet can afford to pay off his guilty
                    feeling for being rich.  The money matters to the rest of
                    us so-called "very rich".  My wife and I both work 60+
                    hours a week each and *earn* every penny we get.  You can
                    bet your ass we're going to be voting for anyone who will
                    cut the ridiculously high taxes we pay that goes to people
                    who do *nothing* to improve this country.
        \_ Hi Troll!
2003/7/31-8/1 [Reference/Tax] UID:29192 Activity:very high
7/31    401k people retiring in 30 years, so what if income tax is
        50% in 30 yrs, should I just take the 30% hit now?
        \_ If the income tax is 50%, it'll be time for the revolution.
          \_ Income tax used to go to 70% when I was a kid and I believe it was
           \_ Canada's @ 50% now.
             as high as 90% at one point but I'm not certain of that one.  50%
             was a Reagan era tax cut down from 70%.
             \_ For the top bracket.  google for "history marginal income tax"
          \_ amen to that!
          \_ I think you need more important things to worry about in your
             \_ More than the right to own property?  There are few things more
                \_ actually there are a lot of things more important
                   \_ like paying high taxes so you can stay in school forever
                      and Fight Against The Man?
                      \_ who da man?
                   \_ I can think of two: life and liberty.  But that still
                      qualities as 'few'.
                        \_ Life and liberty are tantamount to the right
                           to own property.  They are inextricably linked.
                           \_ Tantamount? You should look up big words
                              before you try to use them in a sentence
                              and embarass yourself like that.
                              \_ embarass? you should spell check big words
                                 before you go around dissing other people.
                                 -not the tantamount guy
                \_ Like the need for a booty call tonight.
        \_ The idea is that your tax bracket will be smaller then. It's
           entirely possible you may do well and be in a HIGHER tax bracket
           then. The major advantage to a 401k is that you pay no tax on
           capital gains and dividends so that money can grow tax-free. --dim
           \_ You missed the point, which is that with the way things are
              going, those with income may be paying much higher rates to
              support the SS/medicare/fat bloated budget.  So pay the taxes
              now while they're 'cheap.'
              \_ I did not miss the point. You did. "The major advantage to
                 a 401k is that you pay no tax on capital gains and dividends
                 so that money can grow tax-free." --dim
        \_ Guess what - none of your money is safe.  When SS starts to fail the
           ~ 2013 the Fed is going to retroactively tax all of the 'tax exempt'
           investment and retirement accounts.  By that time guns will be
           outlawed, the UN will lord over America, narcisistic and secular
           America will have reverted to tribalism, and there will nothing
           you peons will be able to do.
           \_ In spite of all your gloom and doom predictions, SS will be fine.
              Raising the retirement age to 70 will make it solvent for the
              next 75 years.
              \_ Wow, and since the life expectancy for males is 74.1, I'll
                 really be able to enjoy those years.  The true test of whether
                 congress really has balls is if the retirement age is higher
                 than the life expectancy.
                    Congress has already raised the SS full benefits age from
                    65 to 67 for those born after 1960.
2003/7/29 [Reference/Tax] UID:29167 Activity:nil
7/29    GAO: Young Americans to Face Tax Hikes for SSA
2003/7/16-17 [Finance/Banking, Reference/Tax] UID:29052 Activity:high
7/15    Is there a reason to keep pay stubs?
        \_ Double-check your deductions.  I've been shafted a few times when
           the company has either 1) deducted the monthly medical payment on
           both bi-weekly paychecks, and 2) failed to deduct the payment at all.
        \_ if your company goes under and you dont get a W2 at the end of the
           year for taxes, you'll need the pay stubs for proof of income and
        \_ You need pay stubs when you apply for a mortgage loan.  --- yuen
           \_ You just need the most recent one. I never save them. I just
              verify that the latest matches the previous and toss the
              previous one.
              \_ I just applied for a loan last month and my agent asked for
                 three months' worth of pay stubs among other things.  --- yuen
                 \_ I guess YMMV. I didn't even have to supply a single one.
                    They just called my employer.
                    \_ 3 month's worth is standard.  they called your employer
                       because you didn't have 3 mothn's worth.  get it?
2003/7/15-16 [Reference/Tax] UID:29039 Activity:moderate
7/14    I've not worked for a year (ok I have as a temp and have made about
        $5K this year) and I'm thinking about excercising my options which
        according to eTrade is worth about $50K. What is the tax implication
        for doing so?
        \_ Excercising and selling or excercising and holding?
        \_ I assume you mean exercise and selling.  It is a damn good time
           to do it (not nec. all if all 50K is profit).  It is basically
           treated as income and since you are in a lower tax bracket...
                                -not a tax attorney
           \_ but it is still capital gain.  If you can offset any loss,
              may as well do it.
              \_ It is not capital gain if it is a disqualifying disposition.
                 Check out the following link for more info on it.
        \_ What are the odds the stock is going to rise this fall as the
           economy recovers?  If yes, can you afford to wait?
        \_ There are more than one type of option, with different tax
           ramifications.  Are they ISO options or NQ?
           \_ they are NQ                       -op
              \_ I had NQ's from Intel, and cashed out when I left (turned out
                 to be good timing).  I was required to exercise within 90 days
                 of leaving.  You have NQ options after a year?
                 Anyway, the taxes work like this:
                 Market Price - Option Price = $x
                 That $x is taxed at income rate (not capital gains).  There may
                 also be a short term capital gain/loss if the market price
                 changes in the time between exercising the option and selling
                 the stock. -emarkp
           \_ Do you mean NSO?
              \_ No, I meant NQ--as in 'non-qualifying' options.  What don't
                 they qualify for?  I dunno (as opposed to ISO--Incentive Stock
                 Options) -emarkp
                 \_ They should a lot like NSOs to me. I have never heard the
                    term NQ before, but it makes sense, since NSO stands for
                    Nonqualifying Stock Options. NSOs are a bit more
                    complicated than you described, since you can file a 63b
                    and they start to act like an ISO in many respects then,
                    but if you just excercise and sell them, emarkp is correct.
                    OP, if you want to perhaps reduce your tax burden, but
                    take on additional risk, look into filing a 63b
                    \_ I cashed out in 2000 and haven't had the need (or
                       opportunity!) to look into it.  I don't know what a 63b
                       is and it's quite possible that 'NQ' was Intel-speak or
                       that NSO is simply another TLA for the same thing.
2003/6/24 [Reference/Tax] UID:28820 Activity:nil
6/23    Here's one for the econuts - kyoto leads to a fart tax
        in NZ:
2003/6/5 [Reference/Tax] UID:28637 Activity:high
6/4     Employers often pay 31 cents per mile for mileage reimbursement.
        Where can I get this official ".31/mile" figure for tax or court
        purposes? Thanks.
        \_ It's $0.365/mi for 2002.
2018/11/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/5/27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:28560 Activity:insanely high
5/26    I don't understand why people are opposed to raising taxes for
        people who have more children. It is a fundamental question of
        fairness.  For example, primary and secondary education is funded
        mostly by property taxes at the county and city level.  Two couples
        buy similary priced house and pay roughly the same amt of property tax.
        One couple has 1 kid and another couple has 3 kids.  The couple with
        3 kids is using up more tax payer resources so why shouldn't they
        pay more.  We can't easily restructure the property tax system.  And
        everybody should chip in to make public education work regardless of
        whether you have kids.  But the people whoe use it more should pay
        \_ keeping kids in school lowers crime rates. Think about it as
           social insurance. If you want to pay less in taxes for schools,
           live in a low property value area. You get the idea.
        \_ public education is a service to everyone.  a better educated
           populace (should) translate to a better and more productive
           \_ because everyone who isn't a single male sysadmin making 6 figures
              is a degenerate freeloader who should pay for their own damn
              social services.  haven't you been paying attention? are you
              a commie?
        \_ You can't argue about taxes like this.  You need to state your
           moral philosophy, including what you believe the inherent human
           rights are.  After you do this, the tax system will naturally
           follow.  Without doing this, you are just chewing the fat endlessly.
           workforce.  The benefit is not only to the family with kids.
           So, we have decided (however reluctantly and increasingly
           underfunded) to provide a publicly funded education system.
        \_ What if you look at it this way:  every kid is a future tax
           resource.  Each kid is likely to pay for his own education
           in his life via taxes he pays.  So why stick it to his parents,
           who're kindly providing this future tax resource at great
           expense already?
           \_ because everyone who isn't a single male sysadmin making 6
              figures is a degenerate freeloader who should pay for their
              own damn social services.  haven't you been paying attention?
              are you a commie?
              \_ what is wrong with Commie?
                 \_ maybe you missed the part where the Berlin Wall fell?
                        \_ Perhaps you forgotten your "facts" after
                           leaving Berkeley. The fall of the berlin
                           wall was a due to the uncontrollable
                           destructive, oppressive, exploitive,
                           racist, profiteering, non-collectivist,
                           anti-abortion, anti-worker, earth
                           and woman raping, genocide commiting,
                           firearms bearing, suv driving, slave
                           owing, gay-murdering, witch-hunting,
                           arab hating tendencies of theistic
                           judaea-christian greco-roman anglo-saxon
                           indo-european materialistic capitalist
                           millionare fat-cat pig dog vultures.
                           \_ After I left Berkeley I was free to express the
                              truth without fear of some club bearing, man
                              hating, unshowered butch lesbian trying to beat
                              me to death.  Free at last!  Free at last!  Thank
                              God Almighty, I'm free at last!
                    \_ Perhaps you forgotten your "facts" after leaving
                       Berkeley. The fall of the berlin wall was a due to the
                           \_ I agree.  uncontrolled capitalism of
                              the late 19th century causes the rise
                              of commies.  the kindler, gentler
                              version advocated by liberuls
                              resulted in the fall of the commies.
                           \_ Oh you poor oppressed upper middle class
                              white men!
                       uncontrollable destructive, oppressive, exploitive,
                       racist, profiteering, non-collectivist, anti-abortion,
                       anti-worker, earth and woman raping, genocide commiting,
                       firearms bearing, suv driving, slave owing,
                       gay-murdering, witch-hunting, arab hating tendencies of
                       theistic judaea-christian greco-roman anglo-saxon
                       indo-european materialistic capitalist millionare fat-cat
                       pig dog vultures.
                       \_ After I left Berkeley I was free to express the truth
                          without fear of some club bearing, man hating,
                          unshowered butch lesbian trying to beat me to death.
                          Free at last!  Free at last!  Thank God Almighty, I'm
                          free at last!
                       \_ you forgot the part about 'goat sodomizing
                          baby-murdering, gluttonous'
                       \_ I agree.  uncontrolled capitalism of the late 19th
                          century causes the rise of commies.  the kindler,
                          gentler version advocated by liberuls resulted in the
                          fall of the commies.
           the children!", "family values" issue.
                       \_ Oh you poor oppressed upper middle class white men!
                          \_ Who here is upper middle class?
           \_ Indeed.  Growing up, my folks' income was marginal poverty
              level. I got through Cal on merit- and need-based scholarships,
              loans and work.  In 2000 I paid of the last of my student
              loans and cashed in stock options--and paid more in taxes than
              my parents annual income the year I started Cal.  (Oh, and I'm
              still in CA forking money over in state taxes, so I believe the
              investment has paid off.)
              \_ Are you voting Republican yet?
                 \_ If he's smart, he is.
                 \_ Yes--I have been since I was 18.
              \_ I never paid enough tax for myself in CA before I had to
                 leave in order to get a job.  Damned economy.  I liked CA.
                 \_ CA just got a few billion in bailout (2.x billion?) from the
                    latest budget plan.  Everyone in the US subsidized CA this
                    \_ Only fair since CA pays more in taxes than it gets
                       back almost every year.
                    \_ Too late for me.  I had to leave CA a year ago.  And
                        $2G is a drop in the bucket of CA's problem.  Further,
                        it won't help anyone get a job, it'll just help keep
                        the CA gov't going.
        \_ they have that.  it's called one-child policy in China.  while
           nothing wrong with tax policies to encourage certain birthrate
           pattern, I don't like the way you talked about "fairness"
           in tax policies.  The tax policies is never fair for anyone.
        \_ there's no such thing as a "fair" tax policy.  even a flat tax
           will hurt lower income people more than higher income people.  it
           is time for you to understand that life just isn't fair.  once you
           fully absorb this concept, you'll find the rest of your life is
           much more enjoyable.  sometimes you gotta break an egg to etc etc.
           I've got no kids, I'm married and plan to not have kids and don't
           have a problem with the current system.
        \_ "fairness" is an important criterion for designing and evaluating
           a tax system, however it is not the only criterion.  I tend to
           agree with you that there is too much tax benefits for breeding
           like pigs (dependant, child tax credit, etc., etc.).  However,
           you are going to be very lonely on this cause it's a "think about
           the children!", "family values" issue.  both the democrats and
           the republicans are suckers for these.
           \_ No, actually it's about spending money on them now so they don't
              break into my home later.  Prisons are expensive.
              \_ do it with progressive tax which doesn't encourage breeding
                 as much as child tax crdit.  or give child tax credit to
                 the first two kids only.   if you can't educate your kids
                 well, stop breeding, or at least, don't expect me to
                 subsidize your breeding.
                 \_ Right -- it's much better to subsidize a larger police
                    force and much more extensive and overcrowded jails after
                    those kids break into your home and rape your wife when
                    they become adults.
                    \_ education hasn't worked.  The current system already
                       subsidizes the poor.  How has that worked out?  Kids are
                       still dropping out.  Throwing money at the problem
                       hasn't done anything.  Washington DC has the highest
                       tax burden of any region.  It still has one of the
                       highest murder rates in the country.  Taking away these
                       subsidies and steralizing people on welfare will get
                       rid of the problem once and for all.  No bad kids, no
                       problem.  Also sterlizing illegal immigrants arrested
                       in the U.S.  Just to cover all the bases.
        \_ Actually, all tax laws in CA are hard to change. You need the
           magic 2/3+1 supermajority to pass tax laws. Perhaps you're thinking
           of charging a "fee" for use of public education? Think about how
           hard that is for the UC and CSU system and multiply it by 10.
           \_ Not hard at all.  Didn't they just raise UC rates by $500 or
              more?  I also read summer students got hit with a bonux $150
              charge only a few days before summer classes started.  -alum
           \_ No you don't.  They changed the law, or didn't you hear to only
              require 55%.
           \_ A judge can change the law whenever he feels like it.  It used to
              be the case that local property taxes went to local schools.
              Judicial fiat changed that.
2003/5/26 [Reference/Tax] UID:28556 Activity:insanely high
5/26    Who is in favor of restructuring the tax system so that it penalizes
        people who have more than 2 kids?  Right now this child tax credit
        applies to all your kids.  I say, it ought to apply only to the first
        two. And if you have more than 2 kids, the credit goes away and you
        have to pay MORE tax for every child you have.
        \_ Because?
        \_ I hate child tax credits period.   - single and without kids
           \_ That's nice.  As a matter of public policy what's wrong with
              \_ What's right with them?
                 \_ It's the status quo.  Don't like it?  Propose a reason
                    for change.
                    \_ obviously, this system is giving tax breaks to people
                       so the rest of us have to pay more. -differentguy
                       \_ The entire tax system is built like that.  Did you
                          vote for Steve and his 3x5 tax return?  A flat tax
                          is the only way to not have someone get an "unfair"
                          break.  The fact of the matter is that it is in the
                          country's best interest to encourage people to have
                          children.  The tax you should be upset about is the
                          marriage tax penalty which discourages and punishes
                          people for trying to have a stable family.  Stable
                          family structures are good for the country, so this
                          tax should go but the child credit should stay.
                                 --married guy, never having kids
        \_ Well, the US economy depends on growth, and with an aging
           population, who will take care of this aging population? We are
           making up for our lack of procreation by increasing immigration.
           So tax credit or no we will have more people in the US. To see
           the affects of zero-growth population, take a look at Japan.
                \_ And Europe.
           \_ I said eliminate and increase tax only after you have TWO kids.
              How does that lead to zero population growth?  -OP
              \_ Your changes penalizes ppl for having too many kids. So if
                 the gov't encourages you to have at most 2 kids (to replace
                 you and your SO), that is zero population growth.
        \_ After reading the above replies, I think the answer to the OP's
           question is, "no one with a clue who cares about the country is in
           favor of reducing or eliminating the child tax credit".
           \_ It's not about eliminating it.  The question is how much is
              enough.  Kind of like welfare.  Some is good, too much and
              it's bad.  Poor immigrants from Mexico have the most number
              of kids.  Subsidizing that is always good for the country?
              Similarly why should I be subsidizing rich people who have
              more than enough to take care of their kids?  Some well-
              directed subsizing is ok, but too much of it, and you are
              imposing on my freedom to choose what kind of life I should
              have, forcing conformity and too much social control like
              boring Singapore.
              \_ I'm going to ignore your bizarre comment about SG and freedom.
                 Kids are kids.  It doesn't matter if their parents came from
                 somewhere else.  They're here now.  In three generations do
                 you want those Mexican-parented-now-American kids to have
                 grand children in jail, selling drugs, and hooking or do you
                 want them in college, serving in the military, working in
                 offices, and being good neighbors?
                 \_ I want them to have less kids unless they can take good
                    care of their kids themselves (with a little subsidizing
                    from me, but not too much).
                    \_ And there you have it.  You want to give a child tax
                       credit but not "too much".  Who defines "too much"?
                       Right now, by right of status quo, the current number
                       isn't "too much".  You also (I assume you're OP) want
                       to charge a "too many children tax" after some
                       unspecified number of kids.  Who are *you* to decide
                       how much is too much?  Who are *you* to decide that
                       someone has had too many kids?  Once you get into any
                       tax system beyond a simple flat tax, you *will* be
                       giving bonuses and slapping penalties on people in a
                       government controlled effort to force the populace to
                       conform to your utopian ideal of what everyone should
                       be doing with their lives.  Thanks, but no thanks.  I'd
                       rather keep our current broken system then have you
                       break it worse in your utopian ideal image.
                    from me).
2003/5/20 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:28493 Activity:high
5/20    Headlines:
        1. Warren Buffet criticizes no-taxes-on-dividends plan as laden
           with Enron-style accounting and implies "rich get richer" effect.
        2. Homeland Security Dept. raises terror threat level from Yellow
           to Orange:  Recent chatter suggests terrorists may be planning a
           major attack inside the U.S.

        Leading stories change from 1 to 2.  Haven't we seen this before?
        \_ Warren Buffet and the other ultra wealthy of this country have
           their own interests in mind which differ vastly from the little
           people such as yourself.  Can you do better than WB?
           \_ Good, I see your heuristics are at work! (no sarcasm)
              Now read his article: "Putting $1,000 in
              the pockets of 310,000 families with urgent needs is going to
              provide far more stimulus to the economy than putting the same
              $310 million in my pockets."
              \_ I don't believe a word the man says.  You can quote WB all
                 damned day.  He and the other ultra wealthy are not a reliable
                 source of economic advice for little people.  They're so far
                 beyond where we live they couldn't possibly understand and I
                 doubt they care.
                 \_ Gosh.  Are you saying, that even though WB is saying,
                   "I really don't need a tax cut.  People poorer than me
                    needa tax cut.  People poorer than me will actually
                    spend the money instead of simply piling it onto their
                    hoard, stimulating the economy." he's not giving good
                    advice for helping the "little people"?  So you're saying
                    that it's actually better for the little people to
                    tax them more, relatively?
2003/5/3 [Reference/Tax] UID:28314 Activity:very high
5/3     Glad I don't live in Ney York.
        So they add an extra tax on the "super wealthy" but the truly weathly
        probably have enough losses from the last few years they're not paying
        any taxes anyway, so this would only hit high salaried yet not rich
        people like me.  Can't wait until California decides to do the same
        thing in an attempt to turn the state into Alabama.
        \_ All business taxes are passed on to the consumer, regardless.
           Confiscatory taxes introduce inefficiencies by encouraging people
           to avoid them.
           \_ that's a crock of shit.  -tom
                \_ It is self evident - the cost of a product reflects the
                   the cost of production.
                   \_ Taxes on business *profits* only tax the profit.  If
                      a business raises its prices to try to keep the same
                      amount of profit after a tax hike, your vaunted
                      invisible hand will smack him down.  -tom
                        \_ This was not meant to be a controversial, politics
                           laden statement.  Don't work yourself into a frenzy,
                           just think about it - its not hard (where does the
                           money originate from?).
                           You assert businesses do not
                           incorporate tax estimates into investment proposals?
                   \_ I used to think this, but don't anymore.  Simply because
                      if the price is set at the point of maximum profit, then
                      raising the prices will *lower* the profit.  The same idea
                      applies to the idea that preventing shoplifting will keep
                      prices low.
           \_ Taxes on labor are even worse then by your reasoning, since
              they discourage people from working. What would you tax?
              \_ I would tax use of non-renewable rescources.  there are
                 ways of calculating how much that stuff is worth in dollar
                 amounts that includes all the death and destruction that
                 goes along with unwise resource use.  abolition
                 of income taxes makes sense, yes.  for a long(400pages)
                 detailed, and documented presentation of this arguement,
                 please read the book "Natural Capitalism."
2003/4/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:28119 Activity:nil
4/14    Mallard Fillmore (conservative policital comic) claimed
                today that when Reagan lowered taxes, revenue doubled.
                Is that true?  If so, how is that possible?
        \_ wow you actually think things in Mallard Fillmore
           are true?  mf is a piece of crap that comics page editors
           are contractually obligated to print to balance
           doonesbury. - danh
        \_ No idea if it's true but the idea is that due to lower taxes people
           and business have more money available to spend in the economy
           instead of throwing it away to the government thus making more
           taxable transactions occur.  Imagine if the tax rate was 100%.  Who
           would bother working?  If it was 0% people would keep more of what
           they earned and spend more but then we wouldn't have any government
           services.  The key is to find the right balance.  We're still
           \_ Right, but lowering taxes while massively increasing defense
              spending (and the deficit) doesn't do any good at all.  The
              increases in interest rates that result more than offset the
              positive effects of the tax cuts.
              \_ I like to look at defense spending as wealth redistribution
                 that benefits engineers among many others.
                 \_ For one thing, that doesn't address the offsetting effect
                    of higher interest rates and huge federal debts.  For
                    another, the positive economic effects of defense spending
                    are completely overrated.  Rather than creating investment
                    for products that create further positive economic benefits
                    (for example, building a delivery truck which allows a new
                    business to make deliveries), defense spending only creates
                    products that blow things up.
                    \_ Gee, you're arguing for general effects, and I'm just
                       glad that I'm getting some pork barrel from the
                       government.  Yes, there are negative general
                       consequences, but those negative effects are paid for
                       by everyone.  So long as the benefits that I share
                       with a smaller group outweigh the negatives shared
                       with everyone, I still win.
         \_ getting your econ data from a really lame comic strip
            is not recommended.
   - danh
         \_ and even more!
            <DEAD><DEAD> - danh
        \_ revenue doubling is probably fiction.  total tax revenue did
           generally increase in the years after the the reagan tax cut
           of '81.  the percentage of tax paid by the upper bracket
           increased also.  however, it's silly to talk about tax revenue
           purely in terms of the effect from tax cut.  there are a lot of
           other things happening that affect total revenue more.
2003/4/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:28088 Activity:moderate
        What's your share of the cost of the war in Iraq?  This says mine
        is about $13,000.  I say it was money well spent and I'd happily
        have checked off the "use $13,000 of this for the war" box if
        there was a choice for it on the tax forms.
        \_ This whole analysis is bogus. It does not include Social Security
           \_ Back to reading comp for you:
                That does not quite tell us who's paying how much for the war.
                Washington collects plenty of taxes besides individual income
                tax (though that's the main one), and the D.C. statmeisters
                have compiled figures allocating the burden of those other
                taxes to families. Include all federal taxes, crunch the
                numbers, and here's how the picture looks:
              Anyway, SS taxes are capped so they won't be nearly as high
              as the income tax burden for the higher earners.  Thank you
              for participating.
              \_ Exactly, that is why all of his handwaving about uneven
                 tax burdens is crap. He does not include SS taxes, which
                 as you point out, fall disproportionately on those making
                 less than the cap ($85,000 last I checked). He does not
                 include sales tax or use taxes or any of the other taxes
                 which do not advance his thesis. After all of that
                 lying, I don't believe he crunched all the numbers. If
                 you do, you are naive.
              \_ All right, I did the math, using:
                 for total tax burden. And if anything, he understates
                 his point. If the cost per family is $625, the average
                 family in the lowest quintile pays $21, the highest 1%
                 pays $12,500.
2003/4/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:28076 Activity:high
4/10    what are taxes in other countries like?
        \_ Mind narrowing down the choices?
           \_ more or less complicated than the US tax system?
        \_ Try Europe where in several countries you can take outgoing bribes
           off your taxes as a business expense.
        \_ Try Europe where in several countries you can take outgoing
           bribes off your taxes as a business expense.
        \_ In many great Euro-Peon countries the max tax rate is
           approx 70%. Very few people pay that much. The average
           Jacques or Hans usually hides his money from the tax
           man and pays very little. 20% or so don't pay any tax
           because they are unemployed.
                \_ You are misinformed.  First, Switzerland passed a law
                   a year ago forbidding deduction of bribes (paid in foreign
                   countries, of course) as business expenses.  I am serious.
                   Then, Germany and France have _income tax_ rates of ~50%
                   for middle income.  The smaller countries tend to be a lot
                   lower (I pay about ~15% income tax in Switzerland.)  EU
                   countries at large tend to be around 25-40% range.  VAT
                   (sales tax for you baboons) will be around ~15% (8% here)
                   and unlike the US, most Euro countries make the equivalent
                   of an IRA a mandatory part of social security (albeit
                   often privately managed) which gets figured into some
                   tax statistics.  Upshot?  Germany has high taxes, and
                   sucks.  UK has mid-taxes but is expensive and sucks.
                   France and Italy have high taxes but are cheaper and don't
                   suck, the rest of the countries have some variation on
                   those themes.  And n.b. that the US is the only country
                   stupid and arrogant enough to expect its peons to declare
                   income they earn in other countries for life.
                   Mail me for specifics.  -John
                   \- speaking of self-reporting ... does anyone even know of
                      anyone who returned the CA Use Tax thing that came with
                      the CA 540 packet? --psb
                      \_ The what?
                      \_ it's the law, partha.  you are required to report
                         that.  i'd think a philosophy loving guy like you
                         would understand that.
                   \_ when i was working in france, i thought it was amusing
                      that the company paid 100% of my salary in payroll tax.
                      options cashed in within 4 years were treated as salary
                      and subject to the payroll tax also.  regular employees
                      had to sign an agreement to not cash out their options
                      within 4 years.  boy did they get screwed when the
                      telecomm bubble went puff.
        \_ Tax rate is low and tax code simple in Taiwan and Singapore.
2003/4/10 [Reference/Tax] UID:28055 Activity:high
4/9     What is "itemizing"?  thanks.
        \_ Google for "itemizing"; the first few hits have good explanations.
        \_ If you're referring to taxes, it means "itemizing" your deductions,
           instead of taking the standard deduction.  Do it if your deductions
           are bigger than the standard deduction, but you'll need your
           \_ Anyone earning over 50k or so will benefit from itemizing just
              due to CA's high income tax rates.  And most of your vehicle
              reg is also an item, though those are low for the moment.
              \_ I make 49.2 and itemizing doesn't do diddly. You need to own
                 a house or run your home office as a business or some such.
                 \_ to review, "50k or so" > 49.2.  I don't have a house or
                    a business, been itemizing since 1997.
2003/4/9-10 [Reference/Tax] UID:28044 Activity:very high
4/9     A note for next year. TaxAct ended up being useless for
        anything beyond a completely straightforward tax situation for
        which I wouldn't have needed tax prep software in the first
        place. I ended up having to grovel my way back to Intuit when
        things got hairy. -- ulysses
        \_ I do my taxes in chalk and sand, take a picture and mail it in
           with a check.  They always cash it.
           \__ Heh.
        \_ Be sure to run AdAware.  A lot of tax prep software comes
           bundled with spyware/adware.
           \_ you would need to monitor your firewall logs to
              notice the spyware Intuit uses.
           \_ Thanks. I'll check that.
                <time passes>
                [You are likely to be eaten by a grue.]
              Ad-aware didn't find anything.
              \_ Ah, well.  Glad to hear it.
        \_ I used TurboTax this year.  Why was there such a fuss?  I didn't
           have any problem with it.
           \_ Mostly people fussing that they couldn't install and activate
              it on multiple machines. Some fear (unwarrented) of spyware.
              \_ Not at all unwarranted.  It's cdilla.  obgoogle.
              \_ Why don't you avoid spouting off whey you don't know what
                 the fuck you are talking about.  -Installed TT got spyware.
                 \_ how do you know you have spyware?  If so, how do you
                    remove it?
                    \_ TurboTax checks a C-Dilla process when it runs.
                       This would be fine, if the process didn't stick around
                       when you're not using TurboTax.  Intuit posted an
                       uninstaller which removes C-Dilla (since it's not
                       removed in the original uninstall).
                       \_ Mech Warrior 4 installed the same shit.  It didn't
                          uninstall when I was done with that shitty game.
                          It sucked to rip it out by hand but it worked.
2003/3/27-28 [Reference/Tax] UID:27879 Activity:very high
3/26    I'm surprised there isn't more bitching here about the new tax
        cut being reduced.
        \_ Be my guest.
        \_ you mean tax cut has not being elimated completely?
        \_ even those who support the tax cut may think the tax cut reduction
           is reasonable.
        \_ Since the tax cuts were so minor in the first place, cutting them
           roughly in half doesn't change much so what's to bitch about?  The
           tax cuts were symbolic in the first place.  Now I've got half a
           symbol.  Whatever.
          \_ Exactly, the tax cuts were worthless. Just Bush trying to buy
             his popularity. The way I see it, the country needs my money
             more than I do. It's not a big deal.
             \_ I don't see it as the Federal Government needing my money more
                than I do.  They already have too much.  I see it as the tax
                cut was so small it didn't matter anyway so as I said, half of
                nearly nothing is just that much less meaningful than it
                already way.  If it was a *real* tax cut then I'd be pised.
                \_ Tax cut for you is small, but for the big cats, it's big.
                   No more capital gains save a nice hefty chunk for the fat
                   No more capital gains saves a nice hefty chunk for the fat
                   cats.  Don't be stupid.  Their strategy is big tax cut
                   for the rich, throw a few meaningless bones to the very
                   poor to preempt criticism, and screw the stupid middle
                   like yourself who keeps repeating "it didn't matter
                   anyway" or "tax cuts were symbolic" like an idiot.
                   \_ No, Wrong. I *am* one of those rich white evil devilmen
                      you hate so much.  I *am* the top 1%.  I *am* the rich.
                         \_ Yes, my mistake.
                      The tax cut is piddly and now it's twice as piddly.  If
                      there was a *real* tax cut that got axed I'd be pissed.
                         \_ Yes, my mistake.  Make that "divident tax".
                      Just because you don't personally know anyone who is
                      very wealthy doesn't mean I'm automatically in the middle
                      as you very incorrectly assumed.
                      \_ Nobody really cares about the personal you.  That you
                         are a fat cat only further supports my view.  By the
                         way stop turning this into a race issue.  Nobody really
                         gives a damn whether you are white, pink or green.
                         \_ It is very much about me because it is me that
                            you're saying is going to be the one benefiting and
                            I'm telling you you're wrong.  I probably
                            understand my financial situation and the
                            implications of a potential tax cut for me better
                            than you do.  Sorry to pop your balloon, kiddo.
                            \_ Don't give me crap.  You were speaking about
                               the tax cuts in general terms like "tax cuts
                               were so minor in the first place", "tax cuts
                               were symbolic in the first place".  You say that
                               I don't know your financial situation.  So you
                               know the financial situation about other
                               Americans?   That dividend tax elimination mostly
                               benefits the rich is a basic fact, stated in the
                               WSJ and various other places.  I don't need
                               to know your financial situation to know that.
                               Like I said, this is not about you.  Get a grip!
                   \_ Wait. Capital gains taxes were eliminated?! --dim
                      \_ Dividend double-taxes is what I think he meant.
                         \_ Yeah.  They're gonna wait till next year to do the
                            capital gains..
                         \_ Yes, my mistake.  Make that "dividend tax".
                            \_ I assume the rest of your rant is about as
                               accurate. --dim
                               \_ Keep assuming while the fat cats buy yet
                                  another vacation home from the tax cut
                                  dividends, and invite your wife there for
                                  a rendezvous.
                                  \_ Please stop being infantile.  Thanks.
                                     \_ Please, that dividend tax elimination
                                        mostly benefits the rich is a basic
                                        \_ I'm one of those "the rich" and
                                           the benefit is miniscule.  Keep it
                                           and make a real tax cut worth your
                                           whimpering about it.
                                           \_ You are welcome to donate the
                                              tax cut to the charity of your
2003/3/7-8 [Reference/Tax, Academia/GradSchool] UID:27622 Activity:very high
3/7     I'm making $66,000/yr writing code.  Should I be pissed at what I'm
        making or should I be happy to have a job? (6yrs out of school)
        \_ Where do you live? If it's in an expensive place (SF, LA, NY,
           or the like) then you should be pissed if what you're writing
           is any good. --dim
           \_ i'm in reno, so there's a little less state tax to pay.
              also, I'm doing more product maintenance work - work no one
              at the company wants to do and they're hard pressed to find
              qualified programmers in reno to do
              \_ not just taxes, real estate is dirt cheap there. i would
                 consider going there but i work for hw companies and
                 they are concentrated in SV, NY, and Dallas.
        \_ What's a good salary for a 2002 grad writing code?
           \_ I'm making $65K living in NYC... and slightly unhappy
              because its so expensive out here... but also not too happy
              with what I'm writing, and also happy to have a job.
              \_ I remember Patterson telling us in 61c that the average
                 Cal CS guy got about $50-55K.  I'm getting $62 (LA) but I
                 don't know what to think about it.
                 \_ when did he say that? ... that estimate seems low
        \_ I'm making less than that, but I'm just happy to have a job.
                \_ me too, and i like my job.
        \_ 95k for software eng, 7 yrs exp.
        \_ my friend just got a job in SF for $83k, 1 yr post MS exp. ymmv.
           of course, a masters from Cal is probably worth > 2yrs exp.
           \_ In your dreams.  It's all about experience.  Maybe at some
              university or government lab an MS counts.  The dotcoms proved
              that a degree with no experience makes you a good burger flipper.
        \_ I get paid $200/hr for picking my butt over the VPs desk.
           I am so smooth that the CFO brings "me" coffee.
           I am so elite that companies beg to offer me options.
           \_ wut about h07 42n ch1x?
              \_ And don't even let me get started on the babes...
                 \_ They beg to offer you options?  You are so stupid that
                    companies get away with paying you in slips of paper of
                    any kind other than the green variety?
        \_ i'm making 55k, graduated in 2001, live in orange county.
        \_ 120k.  hate job with passion.  sometimes i wonder if my life would
           be better working at a place without assholes for less money.  any
           of you work at places you *enjoy* working at?
           \_ what do you hate about your job exactly?
           \_ I'm rather happy with my job, but again, I don't get paid
              that much. -geordan
2003/3/4 [Reference/Tax, Industry/Jobs] UID:27593 Activity:high
3/3     I have been searching Google and also contacting some friends regarding
        the going rate for a 3 month contracting position that might become
        full time at a big internet company in Mountain View.  The duties
        consist of works for a backend Java and Java-related technologies
        developer.  I have about 5 years of working experience with about 2
        years of Java and Java-related technologies working experience.  I have
        a BS in EECS from Cal.  However, I have never done any contracting work
        before, but have a very broad set of skills, very capable, and very
        fast learner.  The numbers that I found seem a bit high for the current
        market; $100-$200/hr DOE.  Will anyone here point me to some recent
        surveys (2003 or late 2002) and/or provide some comments based on their
        own (or people that know) experiences and also how to best negotiate
        while keeping the door open for the full time conversion?  Thanks!!
        \_ holy sh*t that's a lot of money
           \_ no it isnt.
        \_ DOE is the key.  A fresh-out-of-college type should be happy with
           $40/hr.  A senior with a decade of seasoning and reasonably
           being a contractor so they *have* to charge what looks like an
           obscene amount of money to make it worth it.  The guy I replaced
           was making $300/hr but by in the last few months he was only doing
           an hour or two a day.  Sometimes none.  His only duty was doing
           interviews to repalce himself.  My salary?  20% of his rate plus
           some minor benefits.  If they like you and need you, they'll convert
           your expensive contractor ass as fast as possible, so don't worry
           about that part.  See if you can get them to blink first by making
           an offer or stating a range or something.  If not, then say that
           you'd like $X (I suggest $200/hr) but that the rate really isn't
           the issue since your goal is to convert to FTE after a reasonably
           short time period.
           agressive skills maintainance can expect substantially more.
           Generally we take the FTE equivalent and multiply by 0.75 to get
           a reasonable rate for short term contractors.
                \_ that assumes full time employee
        \_ here's why: contractors get screwed on taxes and benefits and are
           the first to go when heads roll and a bunch of other badness about
           \_ screwed on benefits: true.  screwed on head roll: true
              screwed on taxes, not even close.  Self employment tax comes
              out exactly the same as regular exempt employees making the
              same amount of $$$.
           \_ They suggested a range of $60-$65/hr.  They are really
              low-balling me then? -op
              \_ I've read $1/hour for every $1K/year you'd make on salary.
                 \_ Industry standard is 0.6 to 0.75 these days. -hiring mgr
                \_ As a contractor, you need to cover your own benefits and
                   unemployment insurance (i.e., savings).
                   $1.5-$2/hour for every $1k/year is where I start.
                   \_ assuming you contract for 2k hours per year, this works
                      out to 3 to 4x regular salary for a contract.  i did 3x
                      in '98 '99, and i was close to 4x '00 '01.  i'm down to
                      hmmm 2.5x now.  where are you getting contracts today
                      that are in the 3 to 4x range?
              \_  $60-$65/hour seems really fair now adays.  I've seen rates
                  as low as $40/hour for some senior level contract gigs.
                  Email me if you wanna take it offline --chris
              \_ That's really low for contracting.  I suggest you ask them
                 flat out when/IF you'd convert to FTE and what the salary
                 would be.  If you like the final salary, get them to put it
                 in writing that after X months (I suggest 2-3 max) at their
                 super low-ball rate, they convert you to FTE at the previously
                 agreed upon salary.  If they'll do that and you're happy with
                 the FTE, then consider the contract rate as a sort of
                 probationary period and just do it at whatever rate.  If they
                 won't do that, then your odds of converting are near zero and
                 you should ask for more.  --same long winded person from above
                 \_ This is a silly idea.  If they were willing to commit to
                    a full time hire, they wouldn't be using a contractor
                    probation period in the first place.
                    \_ C2H is pretty common.  I'd be surprised if less than
                       a majority lead to conversion, or end if you suck.
                 \_ Only if you're looking for FTE....
              \_ The big hit is self-employment tax. Basically, you pay your
                 own payroll tax. Plus paying for benes. And you're only
                 paid after you bill. Overhead costs (not including time to
                 do your own paperwork) is easily 30%, less if you want to
                 skimp on benes (ie. covered by spouse insurance, etc.). So
                 $60/hr contract -> $42/hr FTE -> $80K yearly + minor benes.
                 \_ Wrong!  Most bene packages are only worth about $10k/year
                    or less (usually a lot less).
                    \_ Cost to employer is on order of 30% of salary - this
                       includes benefits, sick/vacation/holiday, 401k match
                       if present, and their share of the employment tax.
                       Also, no one is listing 1099 vs W2 contracting.
        \_ Is anyone even able to get a contract job in the past few years?
           \_  They are popping up more often now.  I've still got a few
               friends recruiting and that's what I'm seeing/hearing.  --chris
           \_ I just updated my job search profile for the first time in 18
              months and got my first set of new job emails this morning.  It
              looks like 1998 out there for full timers!
2003/2/20-21 [Reference/Tax] UID:27463 Activity:insanely high
2/20    I've been looking at Washington state's tax laws.  Man, this is a
        scam.  I thought that because they have no state income tax, the
        tax would be lower. But no.  They have all sorts of hidden fees and
        charges.  Use tax, personal property tax, forest tax.  Moving to
        alaska is becoming an attractive option to me.
        \_ Move to israel, i hear they have a good progressive tax policy
           for your kind.
        \_ alaska is by far the most beutiful state.  the tax thing is
           not a scam.  i've worked there and they really don't tax anything.
           besides, where else can you go into k-mart and buy a .500 caliber
           *pistol*?  and as far as the oil problems in the mideast goes, they
           have a saying up there "let the bastards freeze in the dark."
        \_ Move to israel, i hear they have a good progressive tax policy
           for your kind.
        \_ tax rates are really low in Alaska's Kenai peninsula,
           have a great time! - danh
                \_ Zero tax in Nevada and Delaware.
                   Incorporate yourself for an even better deal.  -brain
        \_ goodbye, nice knowing you.  don't let the door hit your ass
           on the way out.
           \_ I'm sure CA will be the perfect utopia after all the people
        \_ You should move to Honduras. I hear they have one of the
           lowest overall tax rates in the world.
              in the middle and upper middle classes have left.  Then the
              rich and ultra rich can hire the poor to raise their kids, do
              the dishes and wash the car and everyone will get what they
              asked for.
           \_ I've lived in CA for 20 years.  The typical cycle is:
              economy good, gov't programs expand.
              economy goes sour, gov't cut education and raise taxes
              economy rebounds, gov't expands again.
                         \_ Oi Vey, I only came here for the good money
                            I don't want to stick for the bad, Nietsky.
              repeat ad infinitum.
        \_ You should move to Honduras or Gutamala. I hear they have one
              I'm tired of this never ending cycle.
                \_ so get the fuck out
        \_ Go back to Moscow and take your Menorah with you.
                \_ ohh 20 whole years!  carpetfuckingbagger!
                   \_ dumbshit, no one is really *from* california except the
                      very rare few of us who are native american.  are you?
        \_ You should move to Honduras or Guatemala. I hear they have one
                      \_ Don't be stupid.
                         \_ Oi Vey, I only came here for the good money
                            I don't want to stick for the bad, Nietsky.
              \_ What other possible cycles are there?
        \_ You should move to Honduras or Gutamala. I hear they have one
           of the lowest overall tax rates in the world. If you must
           stay in the US, go someplace like Mississippi or Tennessee.
        \_ Go back to Moscow and take your Menorah with you.
        \_ You should move to Honduras or Guatemala. I hear they have one
           of the lowest overall tax rates in the world. Guatemala is
           a libertarian paradise, with practically no roads, schools,
           public health care, or any of that other big government crapola.
        \_ Hong Kong has a top personal tax rate of 15%.
           \_ Plus there's neither sales tax nor capital gain tax.
              \_ and as an extra bonus, you get to live in the world's largest
2003/2/19-20 [Reference/Tax] UID:27457 Activity:moderate
2/18    any recommendations for web-based tax services?  I know of Web
        TurboTax, but I'd rather avoid dealing with any TurboTax products.
        \_ Just yesterday there was news of a hacker stealing 5 million
           credit card numbers.  You sure you want your tax info kept on
           somebody else's server?  Just get TaxCut.
           \_ The danger of your card number being stolen is greatly
              exaggerated.  Almost all card issues won't hold you
              responsible at all for any charges incurred on the stolen
              \_ You are poorly informed and the danger is real. The credit
                 card companies will not hold you liable but you may find
                 yourself wasting hundreds of hours (yes, hundreds) of
                 your time fixing the mess if you become a target. This
                 happened to my gf's sister and, citably, to the Chron's
                 financial columnist. Note that the danger is more your
                 SSN, DL and DOB getting stolen rather than a credit card
           \_ If I bought TaxCut I'd be filing online and my tax information
              (and CC number) would be on their server anyway.
                \_ That's why you should never file online. Doing things the
                   old fashion way by paper and snail mail is the safest
                   way of doing thing.
        \_ I liked H&R Block's service.
2003/2/3 [Reference/Tax] UID:27291 Activity:nil
        says it costs just over $7k/person to run this country.  Since I paid
        out over 85k in taxes last year, I want to know which 11 of you lazy
        slacker bastards I'm paying for and could you please go somewhere else?
        \_ you are always welcome to leave
        \_ 85k in taxes?  So you're making ~223k/year?  Nice.  You married?
        \_ How many years have you worked?  Consider all the years where
           others are paying for you while you are running around the
        \_ Take spending on defense for example.  Bill Gates is paying tax to
           protect his 40 billion.  I am paying tax to protect my $2000 in
           savings.  Of course he should pay more.  Why should I pay $5000
           to defend my $2000 ?   :-)
        \_ The reason you can pay 85K in taxes is because some farm-worker
           or fast-food clerk is working for pennies so you have the
           opportunity to earn than much.
2003/1/31 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:27255 Activity:insanely high
        What kind of bullshit is Bush trying to pull?  What a shameless
        tactic.  Tax now to make up for the huge deficit, and to hell
        with the future.  Keep borrowing tax money from the future.
        I thought only drug addicts do these kind of things.
        \_ Guess what - Social Security will be broke in 10 years
           regardless.  The return on the money you pay into Social
           Security will be negative - and yet you want to pay more?
           If you're so fucking gungho about it - PAY EXTRA, in fact
           pay my share.  And yes, drug addicts do make comments
           like yours.
           \_ It's not about the level of taxation.  It's about
              borrowing future tax revenues to spend today.  Get a clue.
              Scrap social security for all I care.  This Roth IRA
              thing is a dangerous game to play.  It's good for me
              personally in the short run, but it is bad for the nation.
              The government is sacrificing a future revenue stream for
              a one shot infusion of tax money.
                \_ And we all know what happens to money from the
                   'revenue streams' the government sacrifices right?
                   The money magically disappears and is never seen
                   or heard from again (a dark cave in the middle in Libya).
                   As if the current IRS code does not encourage tax
                   \_ You think the government will cut spending when
                      the tax revenue disappears?  Nah, they will just
                      increase your taxes then.  Remember  "Read my
                      lips. No new taxes"?  Thus you are taxed twice.
              \_ Obviously you've never run a business or any other sort of
                 revenue in/outflow oriented .org.  Borrowing from the future
                 to fund things today the way life works.  Do you think
                 to fund things toady is the way life works.  Do you think
                 businesses are stupid for taking out business loans?  Do you
                 think the government should run a perfectly balanced zero debt
                 budget in good times and bad?  Would you like to see a 20%
                 cut in services if tax revenues drop 20% one year?  Or would
                 your 'answer' be to simply raise taxes 20%?  Take some intro
                 macro economics courses (just one will do) and join us after.
                 Until then, you're merely confused and a bit cute.  Are you
        \_this may be true when running a profitable business, but
          then we get in a discussion of whether the government should
          be run like a corporation.  after you fill my head with tales
          of efficiency and how Bush has packed his cabinet with highly
          successful businessmen, then I whip out how recent news stories
          are filled with the collapse of supposedly highly successful
                 available?  I could use another young naive pliable lover.
                 \_ Yea sure, the government is like an efficient business.
                    Get a grip.  You think they will just cut spending in the
                    future?  Nah, they will just increase your taxes to
                    make up for the lost revenues.  Remember "Read my lips,
                    no new taxes"?  Besides, borrowing too much is bad even
                    for businesses.  Do you really need me to list examples
                    of mightily leveraged companies falling flat on their
                    faces?  This is not just a little borrowing.  It's
                    potentially a huge amount of money.  Your important segment
                    of 80k and above earners are going to dump or redirect a
                    big chunk of their savings or 401k contributions to these
                    schemes.  Do the math.  Also, if you want to stimulate the
                    economy, cut taxes so people spend more or invest more,
                    don't borrow future taxes so government can waste more.
                    No, the government should not run a "perfectly balanced
                    zero debt budget", it should run a budget that's in the
                    black with some margin.  Finally, stop trying to act
        \_ Boy, NY Times bias is showing:
           "The change, which would primarily benefit the affluent who can
           afford to save more of their income"
           (or maybe they need to explain to the readers who can't think for
           \_ So stating the obvious is bias?
              \_ Slanting it to refer to "the affluent" is.  Hey, I can save
                 more than you can, I'm affluent!
                    tough.  You are just a spring chicken.
                    \_ Why does the trickle down myth persist?
                       \_ So rich people don't feel guilty.
                    \_ The 'huge' amount of money is actually very tiny
                       compared to the whole budget.  I've got a grip.  You go
                       do some math.  I have no idea what your noise about
                       "acting tough" and "spring chickens" is about.  Anyway,
                       an intro macro class wouldn't kill you.
2003/1/26-28 [Reference/Tax] UID:27201 Activity:kinda low
1/27    To the guy who used TaxCut before.  Does it allow you to print to
        a file?  Turbo Tax does not have this option. The only way to generate
        a postscript or PDF tax return was to buy adobe pdfwriter or distiller.
        \_ I got disgusted with TaxCut.  Now I use ed to edit the tax document
           in raw postscript like a Real Man.
2003/1/24 [Reference/Tax] UID:27189 Activity:very high
1/24    Has anybody tried to contribute to a charity outside of the US and
        claim the tax deduction?  I know that donations over X amt of money
        you have to get the organizations tax-exempt code or some other
        number like that.  But this is a foreign charity with no chapters
        in the US.  Thanks.
        \_ Your donations to Palestinian terrorists don't get you a tax
           deduction, sorry.  Maybe if Gore had won.
        \_ Why should you be allowed to deduct this?
        \_ we'll get around to invading Yemen too
        \_ I donate $500-$1000 per yr to a charity in India with no
           US chapters. I've claimed a tax deduction ever year w/o
           any problems so far. I use TaxCut to do my taxes and it
           doesn't seem to care about a tax-exempt code for donations
           under a $1000.
                 \- as a practical matter, i think in a case like this
                    if you take the donation [and have documentation]
                    you can probably plausibly plead "i was confused"
                    and get off. this isnt like buying a boat and claiming
                    it was an R&D expense for your yatch building corp.
           \_ Thanks, this is good point of reference.  I'm thinking of
              donating around $3K this year to a temple in Taiwan.  Last year
              I donated a car and used turbo tax. it asked me for the charities
              tax id.  That was around $3k also.  I'll dig around the IRS
              web site and see what I can find.  Thanks.
              \_ You donate and Al Gore receives!  That's why it's ok to donate
                 to foreign .orgs.  It all comes back to the US anyway!  Let's
                 hear it for the globalization of corruption!  Yay!
        \_ this is an eye opening experience.  I just checked IRS publication
           526.  It says that you can deduct donations to Canadian, Mexican,
           and Israeli charities only (subject to limitations).  Only those
           3 nations are allowed.  The above posters donation to India is
           not tax deductable.  You'll be screwed if you're audited.
           US govt subsidizing donations to Canada, Mexico, and Israel.  What
           a surprise eh?  -OP
           \_ the first two we own. the third owns us.
              \_ Yawn.  More racist idiocy.  The Jews own the media and the
                 banks, and etc, blah blah blah.  Feel better now that it's
                 been said outright?  Oh yeah, the Jews killed Jesus, too and
                 have horns.  I miss anything?
                 \_ what was racist about it? i didn't say anything bad about
                    israel. it just has a very powerful influence on our
                    national policy.
                    \_ there's a difference between "owns" and "has a very
                       powerful influence".
                       \_ i generalized to make a point. how come you don't
                          have a fit about the first two statements?
                          As far as jews themselves, I don't think
                          they're worse than any other people. i dislike the
                          religion because many who follow the "letter of the
                          law" still are cruel and greedy, and it promotes an
                          ideology where some people are "better' than others.
                          i am not a christian but at least there I would say
                          the cruel and greedy people are not following the
                          "message of the religion". the old testament is full
                          of stories like "these people were bad so they were
                          wiped out. all of them."
                          \_ feel free to ask if you need any more rope.
                \_ review of the bible:
          - danh
                          \_ thanks for showing us how little you know about
                             Judaism, Christiantity, and apparently religion
                             in general.  I was wrong.  You're not racist.
                             You're steeped in ignorance with an extra dose
                             of hatred and a touch of superiority complex on
                             the side.
                             \_ when i said promotes, I mean promotes among
                                stupid and/or ignorant people. i think that
                                stupid/ignorant jews are more dangerous than
                                stupid/ignorant christians, but both are less
                                dangerous than stupid/ignorant muslims.
                                stupid/ignorant buddhists and hindus are less
                                dangerous than all three.
                 \_ Yeah sure, blame everything on racism.
                    \_ actually, i only have problem with the jews.  they
                       are the enemy.
                       \_ Try better, troll.
                    \_ Even God is a racist too.  Else why did he choose Jewish
                       over other races?
                       \_ until we actually hear from god, it's hard to know
                          which race he really favors.  i guess you can take
                          the jews' word for it, but it is only the fool who
                          would take the word of a jew.
                          \_ *laugh* Troll.  -jewboy & mark of kings
                          \_ "If you're doing business with a religious
                              son-of-a-bitch, get it in writing!" - WSB
                     newspapers. The first one is reading Ha'aretz. After
                  \_ This reminds me of a joke I heard the other day. Two
                     guys are sitting in a cafe in Tel Aviv, reading the
                     newspaper. The first one is reading Ha'aretz. After
                     a while he looks at the other guy and says, "I couldn't
                     help but notice you are reading that vile white supremicist
                     rag, what is wrong with you?" The second guy says, "Well,
                     I used to read Ha'aretz, like you, but every day I would
                     get depressed. It was every day the same thing, Sharon
                     this, suicide bombing that, settlers this... it really
                     got to me." "Now every day I am happy. I read this paper
                     and it says here that we control the media, run the banks,
                     dominate American foreign policy..."
        \_ you can try donating to other countries through local charity.
           i.e., red cross, world vision.
        \_ I donated $1k to Al Qaeda last year and the government let me
           deduct it from my taxes. What a great country!
           \_ my parents gave money to fund the jihad against the great
              satan, and all i got was this lousy t-shirt.
              \_ and an invitation all expense paid trip to Cuba!
2003/1/15-16 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:27108 Activity:insanely high
1/15    Anybody lived and worked in Nevada (or another state that has no
        income tax?)  I'm wondering if it's just a gimmick and they get
        your money in some other way.  E.g., higher property tax or payroll
        tax, etc.  Does one really come out ahead compared to CA?  I'm
        thinking of moving to another state to escape the perpetual fiscal
        nightmare CA experiences.  Thanks.
        \_ I worked in Alaska.  There are no taxes of any kind except
        \_ In terms of overall tax burden, CA is about average. If you want
           to be taxed move to Massachusetts. --dim
        \_ California is unique because of Prop 13.  Long time property owners
           see their tax burdens drop over time in real dollars.  So it is
           a relatively expensive state to be young or new in, but much less
           not some kind of ascam.  there just aren't many people and
           expensive (tax-wise) to grow old in.
           \_ URL?
                 \_ This isn't believable.  Oregon has no sales tax yet this
                    claims the state/local tax burden is over 9%.
                    \_ Yes, genius. There are other state/local taxes, like
                       taxes on gasoline and property tax. --dim
                       \_ Ok then this *isnt* the total tax burden and does
                          *not* answer the OP question about other gotchas and
                          hidden fees/taxes/whatevers which California is just
                          chock full of.  This isn't a middle of the road tax
                          state.  It's a high tax state and your little chart
                          hides the fact.  --Genius
                          \_ Yes, it is the total tax burden. Oregon also
                             has an income tax. Please go away. --dim
                             \_ CA has both a sales and an income tax.  Oregon
                                does not.  Your link is just wrong.  --Genius
                                \_ Please refer to the URLs below. You need
                                   to use your brain to combine a few
                                   different sources of data here. I know
                                   you can do it. Think. Sales tax is 8%,
                                   but what percent of your income is spent
                                   on sales tax? --dim
                                   \_ Hmmm, let's see... I pay out over 40% of
                                      my income in taxes, I put another 20%
                                      away and the rest is spent.  So ~1/12th
                                      of 60% is roughly 5% of my income.  And
                                      what value does this have to this topic?
                                      \_ You can't even do simple math, moron.
                                         \_ Uhm, ok, whatever you say.
                                            \_ How much is 100 - 40 - 20? Hint:
                                               it's not 60.
                                                \_ Hint: I pay taxes on the 20%
                                                   put into savings.  I don't
                                                   put it under my pillow.
                                                   \_ you don't pay taxes on
                                                   that 20%, already inc in 40%
                                                   and wouldn't be sales tax.
                                                   None on rent or food too.
        \_ I worked in Alaska.  There are no state taxes of any kind except
           I think Anchorage may have some city taxes.
           In fact, if you live in Alaska, you get a check every year,
           as a sort of negative tax. on the other hand, the cost of
           living is above average in alaska.  and no, the tax thing is
           not some kind of a scam.  there just aren't many people and
           oil pays for alot.
        \_ I think Nevada is a special case because of the massive
           revenue influx due to gambling.
                \_ Yep, gambling & mining.  When I lived there most other
                   taxes (sales, etc.) were lower than California.
                   \_ Still, New Hampshire apparently has the lowest overall
                      tax burden.  Maybe they include taxes on corporations?
        \_ Most states get tax income from business tax, property tax, sales
           tax, income tax, and a whole bevy of fees. CA's big problem is
           property tax. It's figured by the local city or county assessor.
           Thanks to Proprosition 13, that assessment is only done when a
           building is built and when the property changes ownership. The push
           was to save LOLs living in the same place for 30+ years from being
           forced out (ie. fixed income). It also means that companies in the
           same location don't pay higher prop taxes. Poof. Less tax for the
           state. Note: You can always ask to have your property reassessed if
           you think it was listed too high a price, so you can pay less tax.
           \_ I was here when prop 13 passed.  It wasn't just LOLs that were
              losing their homes.  Roughly 40% of my middle class neighborhood
              was getting killed and was forced to sell.  Kill Prop 13 and
              you'll kill the state for good.  There's a damned good reason
              for Prop 13 to exist.
              \_ When was it passed?
                 \_ 1978
              \_ The problem was inflation. Local governments assessed
                 property whose worth was climbing 12-13% due to inflation.
                 Thus, much higher property taxes. Prop 13 forced a solution
                 that should have been dealt with on a local level (ie.
                 lowering property taxes in the face of high inflation).
        \_ I know a few people who moved to Nevada before they cashed out
           their options to avoid CA income tax.
           \_ tangent, would this be feasible: own home/residence in NV,
              have all HR related things sent there, but live in rented
              apt in CA?
                \_ you make too much money
                   \_ no such thing.  he earns it.
              \_ More than feasible. There are a good number of professionals
                 in SV that live in Portland, AZ, CO, NV who fly in, work 10,
                 then take 4 days off (or do the 4x10 work week). The problem
                 lies with the dealing with flying and family. It can suck...
        figured this out. You still have to pay CA income tax
                 for work done here, despite your residence.
                 \_ I knew a guy working at Intel who had multiple homes
                    around the country, including Oregon.  When he wanted
                    to cash out his options, he'd change his primary home
                    address to the one in Oregon.
                    \_ Oops, I meant Washington.  He had a home in both, in
                       addition to few others.
                    \_ I wonder if it is worth it to him in this economy
                       to continue with this behavior?  Did he rent out
                       the fake primary homes or are they empty when
                       he doesn't live there?
                       \_ I think these were his vacation homes and were
                          left empty.
        \_ I know a guy who moved to Seattle several years ago to avoid state
           tax.  He was making so much money from stocks (not his own options)
           that the pre-tax salary from his engineer job couldn't even cover
           his tax.  And that was before the dot-com boom even started.
2003/1/10 [Reference/Tax] UID:27056 Activity:very high
1/10 shows SF leading
        the way once again.  Thank you Nancy for showing us you're made of the
        right stuff!  And if only these folks got together with the folks in
        the first link, the folks in this second link would have an easier job.
        \_ And if it were canadian ID cards, would this be a blip on anyone's
           \_ It would be on *mine*.  You're in the country legally or you're
              not.  Why would you even bother mentioning Canadians?  They're
              not US citizens the last I checked and don't get to come in and
              hang out forever with a Canadian ID.  I don't understand why
              you'd single them out as opposed to any other country.
        \_ of course the other option is they jsut don't pay taxes.  Basically
           this makes it so that illegal immegrants are paying taxes and
           (although minorly cause they are paid for shit) paying for some
           of the services they are using.  Is this so bad?
           \_ *YES!*  They are criminals, duh!  They illegally entered the
              country.  Paying taxes doesn't make it ok.  It isn't ok for
              rapists to pay an extra "rape tax" instead of being proscuted.
        \_ I would rather have a Mexican paying taxes to the US while he's
           here than have some worthless unemployed nigger who
           pops out kids just to get a bigger welfare check. Note: A good
           nigger comes in ALL colors.
           \_ great way to add color and heft to your argument
              there pal - danh
              \_ it's a troll, why bother replying?
        \_ As opposed to the billions of dollars that corps operating int he
           us evade on taxes?  I mean it's kind of refreshing to encourage
           people who want to do business in the states to have to pay tax
           in the states (at least in their mindset).
           \_ ducking the issue.  corps have nothing to do with this.  just
              because someone raped someone somewhere doesn't make it ok for
              someone else to commit some other crime.
        \_ (REPOST) Washington Times and New York Post are not considered
           quality news sources... as opposed to the Washington Post and NYT.
           \_ uhm whatever.
2003/1/9-10 [Reference/Tax] UID:27047 Activity:high
1/9     What tax software do you love and what do you hate? I am returning
        TurboTax because of the issues mentioned here a few days ago and I
        want to know what to replace it with. Anybody like/dislike H&RBLock
        TaxCut? It offers the same things as TurboTax and is 15$ cheaper.
        \_ Update: Intuit refunded me the purchase with a single email request.
        \_ I have been using TurboTax for a few years with mixed feelings.
           Last year I tried TaxCut.  I ran into some problems
           (unfortunately, I forgot what), and went back to TurboTax.
        \_ I'v used TurboTax for the last 4 years.  And I won't be buying
           another Intuit product until they remove "product activation".  Some
           have suggested elsewhere--it's free at least.
           \_ Just downloaded it to give a try. It's pretty straightforward
              but keeps bugging me to buy their other software. Whuddya want
              fer nuthin, I suppose.
        \_ My dad has been using taxcut for several years. He likes the
           program and hasn't run into any problems with it. --ranga
        \_ there was an SJ Mercury article on people complaining about
           the new Turbo Tax.
2003/1/8 [Reference/Tax] UID:27027 Activity:nil
1/7     Cool loophole in proposed tax cut on dividends.  To pay a tax
        free bonus to your employees (or c-level execs...), just create
        a special purpose private company "BonusCompany" and seed it with
        the bonus money.  Issue stock to the bonus recipients in proportion
        to the desired bonus amounts, pay out the bonuses as a dividend,
        dissolve the company, and viola!  -mel
        \_ Viola?
           \_ Voila!
        \_ Only commie countries like America tax dividends and capital
2003/1/6-7 [Reference/Tax] UID:27003 Activity:high
1/6     I've heard some god awful things about Turbo Tax this year.  Like
        the product activation key that only allows you to install it on
        just one computer, and the automatic install of a lot of other junk
        that you don't need.  My copy will become useless when I upgrade my
        laptop.  I'm looking for alternatives.  Anybody used TaxCut before?
        \_ I'm not paying taxes this year in protest of America's support
           of Isreal.
        \_ I used TT for the first time last year and hated it.  I had to
           do a few forms manually.  TaxCut the past 3 years was a breeze.
        \_ hmmm... maybe that's why i got a free copy of it in the mail. i
           was thinking of burning it and handing it out to friends.
           \_ I activated the copy I got in the mail two days ago for about
              $30. The state download was free. It comes with a mail-in rebate
              for e-filing. I've wanted to shoot TT in the head a few times in
              the past so I'm curious if everybody's had an easier time with
              TaxCut. Specific inanity had to do with capital gians on funds
              with auto reinvestment and/or uncertain purchase dates.
              \_ Why is your pruchase date uncertain?  You have some sort of
                 brokerage house you went through.  They have records.
                 \_ Neither Schwab nor Datek/Ameritrade have been willing to
                    look for purchase dates older than 2 years. YGWYPF.
           \_ There's an activation code in the one you got via mail.
           \_ Which variant of Turbo Tax did you get in mail?  Fed only?  Fed
              plus state?  I purchased and registered my Turbo Tax Deluxe in
              tax year 2000 but I still haven't got any free copy in my mail.
              (I pirated my tax year 2001 copy.)
              \_ And then you wonder why you got audited.
              \_ I think they key on the "rebate" offer rather than the
                 registration. And it's the Deluxe with a free offer of the
                 State one.
        \_ Why waste so much natural resources on items that become obsolete
           as soon as you use it?  Why not just use on-line services like
           Turbo Tax On-line?
           \_ oh, maybe because you're totally SOL when you have to deal with
              the IRS 2 years later when they decide to re-examine your taxes,
              and the on-line service is GONE (in the year current-2 version).
              \_ but you can save your return as a PDF, so what's the problem?
                 \_ Do you know what an audit involves? Please return with
                    \_ What?  Isn't everything be on the tax return?
                       What additional information can you pump out because
                       you have a software copy of turbotax?   - !op
           \_ natural resources?  as if the net is free?  take the enviro
              wacky nut crap to kuro5hin or something.  the rest of us have
              lives to lead.
           \_ Because we're Amuricansdammit.
2002/12/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:26938 Activity:high 71%like:26931
12/28   The failure of the German welfare cradle-to-grave system:
        \_ Wow.  Tax revenues are down and deficits are up, so the government
           raises taxes?!  Thank God that would never happen here!  Get a life,
           pal.  A majority of states right here in the US are in the same
           economic boat.  How many of them have a "cradle-to-grave" welfare
           system?  Get a life.
           \_ You're not making any sense.  If you could calm down for the 30
              seconds it might take to write a reply maybe we could discuss it.
              In the mean time, take a look and see the long term fate of an
              industrialized western nation with even greater taxes than here:
              9% unemployment and zero growth to our lower taxes, lower
              enumployment rate and above-zero growth.
              \_ Austria +2.5%, Britain +3.4% , Spain +3.2% quit making shit
                 \_ None of which have the same level of socialist support or
                    taxes Germany has.  Thanks for staying on point.
              \_ Aren't you late for some cyrillic menorah reading or somesuch?
                 \_ No idea who or what you're talking about.
              \_ you may or may not be right, but the existence of a recession
                 doesn't mean that's the "long term fate" of such a system.
                 \_ Been going on for *9* years.  Read the article, then come
                    come back and let us know what you think.  "duh"
              \_ I like it when the poor suffer and die. It's much better that
                 way. I mean, God must want it to happen, right?
                 \_ Because once the economy collapses from over taxation, all
                    those poor citizens will be equally "wealthy" and therefore
                    happy, right?
                 \_ You can't legislate compassion.
              \_ How much stuff is "enough"? I don't think growth and
                 consumption are always good. Look how overfed Americans
                 are. We are dying from our overconsumption.
                 \_ infidel defiler!!!  you are now required to read
                    the Fountainhead and buy an SUV or suffer the
                 \_ Americans are not overfed.  Those who are fat are so
                    because of the kinds of foods they eat, not the amount.
                    And you apparently haven't been to Germany.  West Germany
                    has plenty of fatties rolling about.  Anyway, I find it
                    interesting that the only people who say "how much stuff
                    is enough" are those who have nothing and want to take from
                    those who have.  Go earn it.  It isn't your place to decide
                    how much another human being is allowed to earn.  You also
                    confuse 'economic growth' with 'pants size growth'.  Please
                    come back after getting a passing grade in Econ 1 where
                    they'll explain how zero economic growth with a growing
                    population means the average standard of living will drop.
                    \_ The German population is not growing. Go back to Econ 1
                       yourself. I have everything I want and no desire to
                       take from others. It is you greedheads that are never
                       satisfied. If your selfishness and stupidity were not
                       destoying the planet, I would be happy to let you
                       wallow in all the crap you desire.
                       \_ Go Captain Planet go!  Save that rock!  Nader in
2002/12/28-29 [Reference/Tax] UID:26931 Activity:very high 71%like:26938
12/28   The failure of the German welfare cradle-to-grave system:
        \_ Wow.  Tax revenues are down and deficits are up, so the government
           raises taxes?!  Thank God that would never happen here!  Get a life,
           pal.  A majority of states right here in the US are in the same
           economic boat.  How many of them have a "cradle-to-grave" welfare
           system?  Get a life.
           \_ You're not making any sense.  If you could calm down for the 30
              seconds it might take to write a reply maybe we could discuss it.
              In the mean time, take a look and see the long term fate of an
              industrialized western nation with even greater taxes than here:
              9% unemployment and zero growth to our lower taxes, lower
              enumployment rate and above-zero growth.
              \_ Austria +2.5%, Britain +3.4% , Spain +3.2% quit making shit up.
              \_ Aren't you late for some cyrillic menorah reading or somesuch?
              \_ you may or may not be right, but the existence of a recession
                 doesn't mean that's the "long term fate" of such a system. duh.
              \_ I like it when the poor suffer and die. It's much better that
                 way. I mean, God must want it to happen, right?
                 \_ You can't legislate compassion.
              \_ How much stuff is "enough"? I don't think growth and consumption
                 are always good. Look how overfed Americans are. We are dying
                 from our overconsumption.
                 \_ infidel defiler!!!  you are now required to read
                    the Fountainhead and buy an SUV or suffer the
2002/12/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:26728 Activity:high
12/5    Any recommendations for a good computer store in Berkeley, or nearby?
        I'm building a desktop linux box. want it quiet and quality parts.
        \_ my basement - danh
        \_ Fry's. And obL1NSUX!
           \_ In Berkeley?
              \_ Said nearby, fremont is nearby.
        \_ well there is a best buy in e-ville
        \_ There are none in Berkeley city limits.  I suggest visiting large
           stores like Fry's and Compusa to look at pretty boxes and then buy
           over the net to dodge CA sales tax and get lower prices overall.
           \_ mmmm shipping costs
              \_ I've done the math.  For expensive parts the sales tax is
                 often higher than shipping *and* you get a lower base price.
                 And oh, btw, fuck CA's brutal and crushing sales tax.
                 \_ then move back to russia, jewboy!
                 \_ i buy cases locally, because they have a bad weight/cost
                    ratio.  everything else i tend to do mail order, except
                    for the occasional fry's special.  non-special prices
                    at fry's are awful.
                    \_ Hell, boy, you shoulda asked! We don't pay no stinkin'
                       case shipping charges!
                       \_ man, them be pricey cases.  last case i bought
                          was for $10 at a surplus place off brokaw in sjc.
2002/10/15-16 [Reference/Tax] UID:26188 Activity:very high
10/15   "IRS Weighs Using Debt Collectors to Get Back Taxes"
        Finally!  Yeah!  (BTW, I don't know why the first paragraph says $200B
        while the second paragraph says only $50B.)
        \_ Why do you care either way?
           \_ That'll help the govt pay the bills without a dime from those of
              us who're already paying our full share of tax.
        \_ 50B is the portion "of the total" 200B that they think they can
           recover. <insult about reading comp. skills here>.  -crebbs
           \_ Oops.  I get it.
2002/9/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:26024 Activity:high
9/27    Mexico has more billionaires than England, and yet...
        'Bill could bring relief for U.S.-Mexico border hospitals'
        'Dealing with the High Cost of Health Care'
        \_ some of the richest people in the world live in some of the
           worst-off countries in the world.  this is by no means a
           \_ But only a handful overall.
        \_ "In Mexico, the top 1 percent own 50 percent of the wealth."
            The URL is largely irrelevent, but that fact is from there.
            And there are many more and crazier statistics than this. Its
            called the growing gap between rich and poor. Learn about it.
            In fact, statistics like the one you mention often only attest
            to things being worse not better since it says more about how
            rampant corruption there is than how rich the nation is.
            \_ In the US, nearly 50% of the population pay no federal income
               tax.  That's scarier, IMO.
               \_ For reference: "Taxpayers in the bottom half paid only 4
                  percent of income taxes in 1999, according to the IRS."
                  Here I don't know whether "taxpayer" means people/couples who
                  filed fed tax returns, or people/couples who actually had to
                  pay some tax.  Either way, it probably doesn't include those
                  who didn't file returns.
               \_ So what?  They still have to pay payroll taxes.
                  \_ The point is a voting majority who can impose more taxes on
                     the voting minority with no consequence (indirectly of
                     course, since voters don't introduce legislation federally,
                     but since more and more the answer of the day is
                     policy-by-poll, I'm worried).
                  \_ The point is a voting majority who can impose more taxes
                     on the voting minority with no consequence (indirectly
                     of course, since voters don't introduce legislation
                     federally, but since more and more the answer of the day
                     is policy-by-poll, I'm worried).
                     \_ Yea, the number of votes should be based on the
                        amount of tax paid.
                        \_ Who was it that said democracy is only ok until the
                           voting slobs figure out they can vote themselves
                           goodies at other people's expense?  We're at that
                           point in history right now.  I know you're being
                           sarcastic but it doesn't work when there's a huge
                           disconnect between the power to vote and influence
                           government and the costs associated with those same
                           votes.  Something to chew on.
                           \_ Alexander Tyler.  I think.  ~peterm/.plan
            \_ There's *always* been a huge gap between the rich and poor.
               When exactly do you think this wasn't so?
               \_ It has grown larger in the last 50 years:
                  \_ Not the last 50 years.  I meant through all of recorded
                     history.  The last 50 years is barely a statistical blip.
        \_ The real issue is why do we need to spend more US taxpayer dollars
           to take care of some other country's ill citizens?
2002/9/6-7 [Reference/Tax] UID:25793 Activity:high
9/6     I read the intuit is adding product key activation to turbo tax.
        I've pirated every copy of TT for the past 10 years, I would hate
        to have to start paying for it now.  What are some of the standard
        ways to get around product key activation?  Thanks.
        \_ one standard way is to pay for it
        \_ I pirated TT for the first time this year, and boy, I'll never
           make that mistake again.  I like paying $20 for TaxCut so much
           more.  BTW, electronic submissions should be free - why are we
           paying to save the IRS money?
        \_ oh my god!  you'd have to shell out $40 to do your taxes!  this is
           terrible!  Seriously though, I'll happily pirate lame games but
           no way in hell am I going to pirate my tax prep software, esp.
           since it's so cheap.  You have a job, you obviously like it.  Pay
           for it.  Support the company.
           \_ Plus it's tax-deductible for the subsequent tax year.
        \_ You obviously have income, or else you wouldn't be paying taxes.
           So buy the damn software. And it's not like there's not rebates
           up the wazoo for tax software. Lemme guess, you also wanna get
           around the fee to submit electrionically, right? Sheesh.
        \_ <prole> hmm remember it's not "piracy" it's "content liberation"
           \_ Yeah, other people's work wants to be Free!
        \_ The hack I have for windows XP actually activates it.  Other hacks
           bypass checks to test if it's activated.  I've used TurboTax for the
           last 4 years, and have been happy with it (and paid for it each
           year), but I'm sick of this treat-every-customer-like-a-theif
           mentality, and am considering moving to human tax-preparer.
           \_ I'd rather be treated like a theif than treated like a thief.
        \_ Can I GPL my money?
2002/9/4 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25765 Activity:very high
        This is just what the world needs.  Global taxes on rich countries to
        alleviate world wide poverty.  France says it'll only take $100b/year
        forever to do it.  I can't wait to be a Citizen of the World and I'll
        even get my own Universal Identicode & Tracking Unit implanted in my
        brain.  Sweet!
        \_ How about foreign aid to israel?  How much of your hard earn
           tax dollars goes towards people who study religious texts all
           day and have children all nights and do not work for a living?
           The US sponsors judaism?!  I want money for my christian schools
           here in the US!
           \_ $2b/year to Israel.  $2b/year to Egypt.  Not very much.  There's
              more government waste than that by far.  Thanks for trolling.
              \_ Just last week I read that there is a 3-2 ratio between aid
                 to Israel and Egypt.
                 \_ Some perspective on this: it costs us $1b/day to send
                    an army to another country such as Iraq'91.  Per day, yes.
                    If we weren't bribing both countries to be nice to each
                    other what are the odds we'd have spent more than that on
                    more than one occasion to keep one from destroying the
                    other?  What's the cost of cleaning up Cairo after a nuke?
                    What's the cost of sending in enough troops to keep the
                    Egyptians and others from genociding the Israelis? Thanks.
        \_ Oh great.  'Cause welfare works so well, we want to expand it to a
           global scale.  Doesn't anyone even pay attention to history?
           \_ the US welfare system sucked, for example paying kids to have
              even more kids; however, what's wrong with trying to eliminate
              poverty? Use the money for job training, loans so that ppl can
              start businesses, get an education, improve infrastructure, so
              that they can become self-sufficient? And when times are tough,
              like they are today, it would be good to have that minimal
              paycheck so that you don't lose your home and can have food on
              the table until the economy rebounds.
              \_ one word, kleptocracy
                 \_ To expand on this, the recent past has shown that when we
                    send money and/or food into nations with corrupt leadres,
                    the resources don't get there.  The corrupt leaders line
                    their pockets.  Look at just about any country in Africa,
                    Haiti or the Palestinians for examples.
                        \_ Stop bringing fact and reality into this.
                        \_ DON'T CRITICIZE THE PALESTINIANS, whatever you do.
                           We all know it is a Jewish conspiracy against the
                           camel jockeys.
                           \_ I'm not criticizing the palestinians.  I am
                              criticizing their corrupt leader.
                              \_ Leaders.  It's a plural thing there and other
                                 corrupt pseudo nations as well.
                              \_ it will be a great day when the secular
                                 government of isreal/palestine has a
                                 double trial for terrorism for arafat
                                 and sharon.
                                 \_ Sharon already had a trial, thanks.
                                    The palestinians don't have anyone left
                                    who can run a government.  All the
                                    reasonable people got murdered in the
                                    streets by Arafat's hit squads.  There
                                    won't be a palestinian government in your
                                    lifetime and the odds of a truly secular
                                    one are about zero.
                                    \_ that depends on how long i live.
                                       consider any 10 countrys, and look
                                       at where they were 100 years ago.
                                       the world changes.
                                       \_ Pick any 10 muslim countries.
        \_ I like to think that having random acts of terror and the slow
           internal destruction of US civil liberties, not including the
           increasing autocrastic governmental rule as payment enough.
           \_ Civil liberties have been eroding since FDR.  Good call.  I like
              the way you think.  You have a good historical perspective and
              aren't babbling about how GWB was the start of it all like some
              other zero-historical-perspective motd scribblers around here.
              Actually, some would say it goes back even further to the 16th.
2002/8/18-19 [Reference/Tax] UID:25596 Activity:very high
8/18    I purchased 1000 shares for $8000. Now it's worth $4000
        If I sell now, can I deduct the $4000 loss and commissions from
        my ordinary income for state/federal taxes? So it's as if I earned
        $86000 instead of $90000?
               \_ No, that's not how it works ... it is more complicated and
                  potentially a lot more complicated.
        \_ If this is the only complication in your taxes you need not get a
           consultant.  You can deduct 3000 from your salary and carry over
           the 1000 to use next year. (As if you earned 87000).
           Get Turbo Tax and it will tell you.
        \_ See an accountant or tax consultant already. If you're too cheap,
           read the tax code yourself. This isn't rocket science and the
           motd isn't here to coddle you. --dim
        \_ If this is the only complication in your taxes you need not get a
           consultant.  The motd *is* here to coddle you. You can deduct 3000
           from your salary and carry over the 1000 to use next year. (As if
           you earned 87000).  Get Turbo Tax and it will tell you.
           \_ I heard they are upping it from $3K to $22K
              \_ linkP?
                      \_ Sort of a metaquestion, then?
              \_ does this have anything to do with bush being in office
                 or am i way off here.
                 \_ if so, i'm with bush all the way
                 \_ Yes, it does.  It's to soften the blow for everyone who
                    got smashed in 2000-2001 in the market which is mostly
                    the middle class.
                  \_ Evil republican tax-cuts, give the difference to
                     the DNC on their website.  I donated my 300$ tax
                        \_This is a joke right?  The tax rebate was stupid
                          but not near as stupid as donating it to the DNC
              \_ And how, pray tell, are we going to make up the billions
                 less in taxes the feds take in? Reduce unemployment benefits?
                  \_ Gee, I dunno, cut spending - whoda thunk?  No more
                     free sex changes, 50 million $ grants to study cow
                     and pig farts, no more UN dues, no more bailing
                     out Southest east asia, mexico and central asia to
                     the tune of 30 billion a pop, no benefits for
                     illegals.  Seems easy enough to me.
                     Not the the budget has ever been balanced, they are
                     spending Social Security receipts.
                     \- what about getting rid of home mortgage deductions?
2002/7/18-19 [Reference/Tax] UID:25384 Activity:high
7/19    Where is a good place to find out rules and tax implications
        for selling a house?
        \_ An accountant, the IRS/State of California tax law websites (google)
           a tax lawyer, etc.  Not the motd.
        \_ I'm a single guy who sold the house for over 250K, does that
           mean my first 250000 is exempt from tax?
           \_ Depends if you lived there long enough to qualify.
           \_ Do you remember the part about "Not the motd"?
           \_ How much did you pay for that house?  The gov't doesn't tax
              you on non-profit.
        \_ I say again, "not the motd".
2002/6/27 [Reference/Tax] UID:25210 Activity:nil
6/26    general realestate question.  say someone buys a house for 100k
        and then sells it for 200k.  now they have made 100k in pure
        profit minus the closing costs.  do they pay capital gains tax
        on that?  if not, what sort of taxes if any are paid on that
        \_ depends on when you bought it, if you lived there and what
           time period(s).
        \_ if you buy a new house worth >$200k within a certain time period,
           you are not taxed on the gains.
2002/6/8-7/5 [Reference/Tax, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:25038 Activity:nil 85%like:24888 50%like:25010
6/7     [ moved to /csua/tmp/motd.kinney ]
        \_ Cool.  In response to the 6/15 babbling, uhm, dude, we're in a
           recession.  Companies fail during bad times.  Maybe you remember
           when the Federal Government (your tax dollars) had to bail out
           Chrysler?  The S&L's?  Several State governments that have gone
           bankrupt over the years?  There's nothing new here, dude.  There are
           incompetent people at high levels who take huge risks or just make
           lame decisions and kill their companies.  It's been going on since
           we've had companies in the modern sense.  Big yawner.
        \_ Whew that's a lot of spouting.
2002/5/12-14 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:24800 Activity:nil
5/12    Anybody know how the social security and medicare deduction in the
        paychecks work?  Is it always a fixed % regardless of what tax
        bracket you're in?  With federal income tax you can withold a lot
        at the beginning of the year and stop it altogether when you've paid
        enough (by adjusting the exemptions).  Can you do that with SS or
        medicare?  Thanks.
        \_ Yes, Social Security taxes is 6.2% of your GROSS pay, Medicare
           is at 1.45%. The cap for SS taxes is around $80K, in which any
           amount above $80K will not be deducted for SS. Yes, the %-age is
           fixed across all tax brackets and it's static for each paycheck
           i.e. you can't elect to have more withheld from any check. But
           then again, there is no advantage of having it withheld at certain
           period since you have no control of how it's being invested by the
           gov't, unlike your 401(k) account. Hope this helps! - jthoms
        \_ Yes.  Yes.  No.
            \_ until you hit the cap.
2002/5/3-5 [Reference/Tax] UID:24699 Activity:high
5/3     If IRS has all the legal access it needs to verify whether or not
        people cheat on their tax return, why doesn't it eliminate the tax
        return and simply calculate the tax amount for everyone?  Sure it'll
        need a lot more computer and maybe human power, but the extra tax
        dollars that it otherwise won't collect will probably more than cover
        the cost.
        \_ Do you *really* want the IRS figuring your tax for you? --dim
        \_ Because you aren't required to pay taxes, only file a correct
           return, what dim said x10000, and also there's a zillion different
           life style deductions that they may not be aware of.
           \_ which of course is a problem in itself. They need to wipe
              the slate and have no deductions. Deductions don't help anyone,
              for ex. mortgage deductions just make the prices of houses go
              up by that much. Ok maybe they help e.g. Enron and rich fuckers.
              \_ Of course deductions help.  If you had any clue about tax law
                 you'd know that mortgage deduction phase out as you make more
                 money.  Higher income people (like me and I'm just some slob
                 posting on the motd from work) don't get most of the mortgage
                 deduction and people making only slightly more get none.  So
                 the next time you want to go bash the rich please at least
                 have some tiny shred of clue what you're babbling about.
                 \_ Mortgage deductions don't phase out. They aren't phased
                    out for me and I'm "rich." Anyway my point was that if
                    we all get mortgage deductions, it just makes more demand
                    at a given price point therefore net result is that
                    we're just the same only houses cost more. If there
                    was no deduction we'd have the same purchasing power.
                 \_ That is crap. You need a better tax advisor. Income
                    has nothing to do with mortgage deduction. There is
                    a 1M mortgage cap, but it does not phase out. You get
                    all of the interest deduction on your 1M loan no matter
                    how much you make.
           \- well you know there are laws about smoke detectors ... so why
           doesnt the govt just install all smoke detectors. obviously it
           should be up to you how much "optimizing" to do on your tax return.
           if you read the tax booklet you will notice there is an option
           to have the irs compute you tax for you. however, they are almost
           certainly just going to add up you incomes an subtract the std
           deduction and then figure out the number. --psb
2002/5/3 [Reference/Tax] UID:24690 Activity:high
5/3     Anybody know what percentage of the population in Israel do not work
        for a living and receive welfare checks?  I know the religious
        groups live off the state I'm wondering if there are more people like
        that.  My tax dollars are funding shit like that, and it pisses me
        \_ Your tax dollars are getting porked all over this country and the
           rest of the planet and you know it.  Take the troll elsewhere.
        \_ How does it feel to be a frustrated, powerless, anonymous ranter?
2002/4/26 [Computer/HW/Drives, Reference/Tax] UID:24595 Activity:high
4/26    RIAA wants to use our tax $s against us:
        \_ reposting slashdot topics is lame.
        \_ No, only against thieves.  Stop stealing music.
           \_ You can rest assured that it will NOT only be used
              against thieves.
                \_ Ok ConspiracyGuy, who will it be used against?
           \_ Stopping theivery is one thing, but the RIAA's
              primary concern isn't theivery, it is fair use.
              They are unhappy that current law allows you to
              make a copy of a cd so that you can listen to it
              in your car or on your computer. They are even
              unhappier that once you buy the cd you can listen
              to it as many times as you want and you can even
              sell it or give it to a friend without compensating
              the RIAA. Same goes for movies.
              The actions and measurse they are proposing
              (ex. cdr tax, new justice dept. branches) are
              far to extereme if the goal is just to stop
              theivery. These measures are a modern sugar and
              stamp act designed to provide the RIAA/MPAA with
              a continuous revenue stream at the expense of
              the consumer and fair use. They want the gov.
              to enforce this act so that non-compliance will
              be exteremely costly.
              \_ Most of this stuff is already going on in
                 Canada and we all admire everything Canadian,
                 especially their medical system, so what's
                 the problem?
                 \_ You are being sarcastic right?
                    \_ Well yeah but it felt good.
        \_ Who's money did you expect them to use?
2002/4/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:24565 Activity:moderate
4/24    How long does it normally take for the government to deposit a check
        for taxes due that was sent with a tax return on 4/15?
        \_ 7 (CA) / 8 (Fed) days after mailing in my case.
           \_ How about refunds?
              \_ 6-8 weeks for a check, a little faster for direct deposit.
2002/4/16-17 [Reference/Tax] UID:24453 Activity:high
4/16    Goodbye, taxes...  We'll see y'all in ... 4 months?
        \_ oops. thought you said "texas".
           \_ you wish.  personally, i'd rather pay taxes than go to texas.
              i.e. if texas residents were exempt from federal income taxes,
              it would be worth that large fraction of my income to *not*
              *live* in *texas.*
              \_ whaddya mean if?
                \_ whaddya mean federal?
                   \_ What tax?
              \_ several years ago, when i was contemplating a move to texas,
                 i came up with the big 5 reasons to move there.
                 1. drive through liquor store
                 2. open containers in cars
                 3. concealed carry
                 4. no state income tax
                 5. women with big hair
                 \_ "big hair"?
                 \_ 6. South by Southwest
                    7. Tex-Mex
                    8. Waffle House
                    \_ You can get waffle house in Tucson..  why move to texas?
                    \_ Waffle house is's a southern fixture!
                    \_ 9. Texas women are way hotter than women here.
                       \_ yeah, but that's just because it is generally
                          warmer in Texas than here.
                       \_ Anna Nicole Smith
                          \_ Ugh, plastic barbie woman. If you believe the
                             women are hotter in Texas, you should move there.
2002/4/16 [Reference/Tax] UID:24452 Activity:high
4/15    pretty basic tax question: So I should only bother itemizing my
        deductions if I can get them to add up to more than the standard
        deduction... which for a single person is about $4K? And without
        a mortgage or something this is nearly impossible to do, right?
        Unless I've made loads of charitable donations or something... ?
        \_ Local and state income taxes are (after a mortgage) the next
           biggest deductions for most people who itemize. So are
           contributions to retirement plans. You might also have gambling
           losses or capital losses. --dim
            \_ so for the first part of 2001 I did contribute to a
               401(k) plan that was then rolled into an IRA when I
               got laid off. I can't seem to get Turbo Tax to include
               this in my itemized deductions... are you sure I should
               be able to do this? Thanks alot.
              \_ rollovers are not deductible
                 \_ No retirement plan contribs are itemized deductions. They
                    are deducted above-the-line (pre-AGI).
           \_ More precisely, local and state income tax *withholding* during
              the current tax year (2001) and any state and local tax *payment*
              you made (e.g. checks you wrote) during the current tax year for
              2001 is irrelevant in your 2001 federal return.
              any tax years (e.g. 2000 tax return, 2001 estimate tax, 1995 tax
              debt.)  The actual amount of state and local tax for tax year
              2001 is irrelevant in your 2001 federal return.  -- yuen
        \_ another common deduction is investment expenses (like if you
           pay a financial advisor fees or were charged margin interest).
2002/4/16 [Reference/Tax, Computer/SW/Languages/C_Cplusplus] UID:24449 Activity:high
4/15    Is homeowner insurance premium deductable in federal or CA tax form?
        \_ No.
        \_ Aren't you a little late in asking this question?  In case this
           helps you, the answer is yes, but only if you file schedule C.
           You have to be self-employed AND have a home office.  All the
           house related expenses related to the home office is tax deductable
           including repairs, insurance, termite control, etc.  The key is
           schedule C.  Don't even try it without a schedule C.  You'll get
           audited.   -self-employeed sodan
           \_ Thanks for the answer.  I use TurboTax, so it's pretty easy to
              add one more entry and re-print the forms before midnight.  Too
              bad I'm not self-employed.
           \_ so if I file a schedule C (with income from a 1099-MISC)
              how much can I reasonably use in my itemized deduction? eg,
              if it was for some computer programming consulting, can I list
              any computer equipment I bought, and things like bandiwdth
              costs?    - !op
              \_ yes, computers, internet access, mileage traveling to the
                 job, etc are all deductable.  They key is keeping written
                 records and act like you run a business.  Separate bank
                 account for the business, keeping expense books, etc.
                 Self-employment is the key to making a lot of money AND
                 paying very little taxes.  Hell, I can buy a brand new
                 car and depreciate that as a "company car" if I wanted
                 to.  - self-employed soda.
                 \_ well, I guess for next year... but doesn't that mean
                    that you have to file *alot* of other forms? I was
                    reading some of the IRS pubs about various other
                    self-employed-type forms that you need and there
                    seems to be a ton.  - aspiring self-employed sodan.
2002/4/14-15 [Reference/Tax] UID:24440 Activity:very high
4/14    Tax Rule of Thumb question: If you paid more than $4550 [the std
        deduction] in State Tax, should you always itemize?
        \_ i make my money from federal research grants, and you are rich.
           it is in my best interest for you to pay lots of taxes.
           don't itemize anything. ever. get all your financial advice from
           the motd, and pay extra voluntary happy taxes.
           \- hey the fed govt pays my salary too ... i should be totally
              exempt from state tax. i finally decided to grow up and start
              itemizing. in fact i should file amended returns now and get
              back all the $ i kissed away. ok tnx. --psb
                \_ It isn't your money.  It is the government's money. You
                   are taxed because the government knows better than you how
                   to spend your money.  They let you have some money for
                   pocket change like having an allowance as a kid.  Tax rates
                   for every citizen have gone up dramtically since they were
                   first imposed.  This is very similar to how the campus fees
                   that were originally voted into existance by students
                   turned into thousands of dollars/semester over time.  Once
                   a paper pushing faceless government org is giving the power
                   to take your money via taxes, levies, fines, fees, etc, the
                   prices only go up.  How dare you try to reclaim more pocket
                   change?  Don't you know you're hurting the children?
                   \_ Tax rates have gone done over the last 35 years.
        \_ I think if you have more than $4550 state tax *withholding*, you
           should itemize your federal even if your actual state tax liability
           is less than that.  The real answer is more complicated than that.
           Say when you filed your 2000 state tax form in 4/2001 you made a
           payment of $1000 to cover the difference between your 2000 state
           tax and 2000 state tax withholding.  And during 2001 your state tax
           *withholding* is $3000, and all other misc. stuff during 2001 (e.g.
           CA-SDI, vehicle license fee, house poperty tax, donation) add up to
           $551.  Since $1000 + $3000 + $551 = $4551 which is more than the
           federal standard deduction, you should itemize your federal.
2002/4/10-11 [Reference/Tax] UID:24405 Activity:high
4/10    IRS requires taxpayers to report their income from foreign countries.
        How on earth can they figure out what one makes outside the U.S.?
        \_ Tax treaties?
        \_ Welcome to the new world order, Citizen of the World #6284856025!
           Please look into the light so you can be retinal scanned.
           \_ Good daycycle citizen!
              \_ Are you authorized to comment on the current daycycle?
           \_ Some day we'll be saying how great it was that we only had
              to have retinal scans, insted of butt probes...
              \_ That's a city-by-city decision.
2002/4/9 [Reference/Tax] UID:24388 Activity:nil
4/9     If this madness continues maybe we'll live to see the end of this
       100 year old failed experiment called 'personal income tax':
       \_ You are right, if the rich keeping making more and more like
          this, hopefully people will rise up and overthrow the
          \_ No, we just need a confiscatory tax burden.  Al Gore said anyone
             making more than $50/year is "rich" so I figure they should put
             a cap at $50k and take everything over that.  Anyone under that
             would get a tax refund and actually make money back.  How's that
             sound to you?
        \_ I think any parents who sucks out a chunk of their child's paychecks
           should be legally required to file tax with dependent status, so
           that the child can claim them as dependents.
2002/4/8-9 [Reference/Tax] UID:24374 Activity:high
4/8     Is there any preference setting in TurboTax to tell it not to round
        off the amounts to the nearest dollars?  I looked around hard in the
        tax year 2000 version but couldn't find one.  Thanks for any help.
        \_ Why do you want this?  Even the IRS rounds up.
           \_ Because there are some entries whose amounts are sums of multiple
              other rounded-off entries, so the difference between the TurboTax
              amount and the accurate amount can be more than a couple dollars.
              When I look back to my last year's tax forms done with TurboTax,
              I was all confused and thought I forgot to include some
              1099-xxx's, especially because some of my 1099-xxx's are of very
              small amounts.  This year I might just go back to manual filing.
2002/4/7 [Reference/Tax] UID:24360 Activity:high
4/6     I'm trying to decide if its worth it to use TurboTax Premium.
        Has anyone tried this? ...think its work it?
        \_ not really worth it in my opinion.
        \_ read the box.  its for people who are investors, rental income, etc.
           if this isn't you then you probably dont need it.  RTFB.
2002/4/7 [Reference/Tax] UID:24359 Activity:nil
4/6     TurboTax or TurboTax Premium?
2002/4/3-4 [Reference/Tax] UID:24311 Activity:nil
4/3     Wanna reduce your tax?  Eat!
        This must have been proposed by all those weight loss businesses.
2002/4/3 [Reference/Tax] UID:24300 Activity:nil
4/2     I rent my house out and need to file a Schedule E form. Turbotax
        asks me 2 questions, the cost to acquire the house and the cost of
        the land. Is that the cost of the current land, or the cost in which
        the house was put in service? Also where can I find this information?
        I've lost the property tax form...
        \_ look at the complete form in TurboTax.  The explanatory information
           should be there.  If you can't figure it out, search for the form
           and directions on
2002/4/2 [Reference/Tax] UID:24295 Activity:nil
4/1     Suppose I spent my pocket money on SITN classes and expensive text
        books. Are these tax deductable under the "work related" deduction
        category? I took technical/work related classes of course.
2002/4/1-2 [Reference/Tax] UID:24282 Activity:high
04/732  How does the home office deduction work? If I work from home 1 day
        a week can I report whatever I spend on my workstations/routers/DSL?
        \- you know home office deductions are a red flag for audit. are you
           sure it is worth it? especially when you start dedecting some
           fraction of your PGE bill and only have W2 income. --psb
           \_ it's a red flag if you don't own a business.  If you do own
              a business and have a schedule C, it's standard stuff.  Since
              starting my own business I found that I've lowered my effective
              tax rate to below 15% from around 30%.  The tax code favors
              the self-employed baby!
              \- well my guess is owning a business is a bigger red flag.
                 by "red flag" i just mean audit probability. living in SF
                 bay area is also a "red flag". --psb
        \_ only a red flag if you're red. The home office deduction was
           made considerably easier last year so that if you perform
           any "admin" functions from home, you can deduct expenses. The
           problem is that IRS requires that the office be used _only_ for
           work and the requirements are strict. Having said there's no
           such thing as tax law -- as long as you have supporting docs,
           IRS will leave you alone even if your home office is a spaceship
        \_ Probably not. The business expense relies on the fact that over
           50% of your work on said machines is business related. You do not
           need a home office to rack up business expenses. Your one day
           per week will probably not qualify unless you keep very good
           records of the times when you were doing work. Even then it would
           be tricky.
2002/3/23 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:24204 Activity:nil
3/22    I got this advice from a friend - is he on crack?  I always thought
        roth iras were Always A Good Thing To Do (tm):
        \_ My understanding is that the gains on Roth IRA is all yours
           while those on the Traditional IRA will be taxed.  Is that true?
           Of course for traditional, you start up with a higher base,
           since you will have the additional money you would have paid
           out as taxes if you go the Roth route.  This "additional" money
           would unfortunately be outside of any IRAs.  Of course you can
           put them in your 401k unless you maxed that one out also.
           In short, if you maxed out everything, Roth essentially let
           you tax shelter a little more money since $3000 in Roth is
           worth more than $3000 in Traditional.
           \_ Isn't there a limit on how much you can be making and still put
              $3000 in a ROTH?
        \_ WSJ's Smartmoney magazine advice on where to put your money for
           most people:
                1. Max out 401k portion with company match.
                2. Max out Roth IRA.
                3. Max out unmatched portion of 401k
                4. Other stuff.
2002/3/23 [Reference/Tax] UID:24198 Activity:high
3/22    Any comments on opening up an offshore corporation as a tax haven?
        I have heard the taxes are fairly high in japan and thus if you
        make money fromn investment thy will get it, instead if the money
        is investment in the name of a offshore corp the returns are tax
        free. Not sure how Japan looks at tax havens but figure they are
        a little more flexible than US.  Should also note that right now
        the US is not looking as close as they should at this practice
        and thus now is actually a good time to do something like this.
          The way it works is easy. Foreign entity buys lets say a car ( in
        actuality we would just give the car to the entity ). Then we
        sign agreement with entity to rent the car (but for very large
        amounts- but reasonable). That way all the rent go directly intot
        he business and any returns it makes is tax free.
        \_ You just got a huge tax cut, wanker. This may have been
           understandable in the 70's with 70% top rate, but the IRS will
           see through your "business." Tax fraud and shelter prosecutions
           are on the rise. Enron gave foreign entities a bad name.
2002/3/22-23 [Reference/Tax] UID:24193 Activity:very high
3/22    I got this advice from a friend - is he on crack?  I always thought
        roth iras were Always A Good Thing To Do (tm):
        Subject: Roth IRA v Trad IRA
          You can contribute up to 3k in either of these for retirement
          A Roth does not provide any tax advantages (initially). The funds
        are deducted "after tax" the benefit is down the road the returns
        the funds generate are tax free.
          A traditional IRA provides a significant initial tax advantage.
        The funds are deducted "pre tax" and thus reduce your current tax
        payments, and in most cases give you a very nice tax rebate.
          The reason why the ROTH was created was for 40-60 yr olds who
        already make plenty of money and aren't running into liquidity
        constraints and because congress wanted more money being taxed
          The way I see it is simple- If you have very low purchasing power
        and debt and are young go with a traditional regardless of what
        any tax advuisor or anyone says.
        If you make bank with no debt go with ROTH
          Also of note is that a traditional has some benefits if you
        choose to go back to school at some later point in time (
        actually these benefits are huge if done properly )
        \_ Note that down the road the funds have grown.  Significantly.
           The long-term tax advantages are HUGE.  So you pay a piddlingly
           small amount of tax now for a massive tax-savings in the future.
          A traditional IRA provides a significant initial tax advantage.
        The funds are deducted "pre tax" and thus reduce your current tax
        payments, and in most cases give you a very nice tax rebate.
          The reason why the ROTH was created was for 40-60 yr olds who
        already make plenty of money and aren't running into liquidity
        constraints and because congress wanted more money being taxed
          The way I see it is simple- If you have very low purchasing power
        and debt and are young go with a traditional regardless of what
        any tax advuisor or anyone says.
        If you make bank with no debt go with ROTH
          Also of note is that a traditional has some benefits if you
        choose to go back to school at some later point in time (
        actually these benefits are huge if done properly )
        \_ I would think "if you can, do both."  Saving, good.  Having to
           eat gravel so you can pay hospital bills, bad.
           \_ You can do both but the annual max conbribution applies
              to the combination of ALL IRA types.  So if you have both
              Roth and tranditional IRA account, the max is still $3000
              for tax year 2002.  For op, your friend's advice makes sense
              if your tax bracket is very high now and you know when
              you retire, it is going to be really low.
              \_ just so you know, that was kinney's advice.  (hence the
                 formatting) - see he sorta makes sense on occasion.
        \_ My understanding is that the gains on Roth IRA is all yours
           while those on the Traditional IRA will be taxed.  Is that true?
           Of course for traditional, you start up with a higher base,
           since you will have the additional money you would have paid
           out as taxes if you go the Roth route.  This "additional" money
           would unfortunately be outside of any IRAs.  Of course you can
           put them in your 401k unless you maxed that one out also.
           In short, if you maxed out everything, Roth essentially let
           you tax shelter a little more money since $3000 in Roth is
           worth more than $3000 in Traditional.
           \_ Isn't there a limit on how much you can be making and still put
              $3000 in a ROTH?
        \_ WSJ's Smartmoney magazine advice on where to put your money for
           most people:
                1. Max out 401k portion with company match.
                2. Max out Roth IRA.
                3. Max out unmatched portion of 401k
                4. Other stuff.
2002/3/14 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Reference/Tax] UID:24110 Activity:nil
3/13    Anyone living in canada? If so, better start hording blank cd's:,1283,50995,00.html
        \_ I plan on making mega bucks on the black market.  This is sweet!
2002/3/12 [Reference/Tax] UID:24088 Activity:nil
3/12    Anybody know if homeowner's insurance premium or home warranty
        insurance is tax deductible?  I'm using turbo tax and I couldn't
        find any mention of that.  Thanks.
        \_ No they're not tax-deductible. Only your points (the whole thing if
           you bought the house last year) and your mortgage interest are.
2002/2/27-28 [Reference/Tax] UID:23986 Activity:insanely high 57%like:23984
        This is what Silicon Valley does to you, kiddies.
        \_ Greed kills.  From each according to his means.  To each according
           to his needs.  It's the only moral way to live one's life.
           \_ Hi paolo!
              \_ who is paolo?
                 \_ he used to be president.  Good guy.
                 \_ we quote him all the time
           \_ Greed didn't kill. Stupidity did. See below.
                \_ I read below.  Greed kills.  From each and to each as I
                   said before.  Anything else is immoral.  -!paolo
                   \_ I d love to respond, but need a little more subtlety
                      of position.  This is just classic Marx.
                      \_ Marx was right.  Look around you at the world today.
                         There's nothing wrong with pure communism.  The man's
                         societal driven selfishness and greed killed him.
                      \_ Think _Utopia_, by Thomas Aquinas. Much older than Marx.
                         \_ Show me a society under 'pure communism'.  I have
                            some societies under capitalism.  Let's compare.
                            \_ There are no societies under "pure capitalism".
                               Everyone uses a mixed economy these days.
                               \_ What a way to avoid the question.  Alright,
                                  I pick the US, the closest thing we have
                                  to pure capitalism.  You pick whatever
                                  country you think is or was closest to
                                  pure communism (China, Cuba, N. Korea,
                                  Russia in its heyday).  Let's compare.
                                  \_ Marx is good at pointing out the
                                     problems of capitalism, but he doesn't
                                     have a good, practical alternative.
                                     Actually, one does exist, which is to

                                     couple capitalism with a good dose
                                     of good solid Christian values, and
                                     a little bit of Thomas Whatever.  In
                                     short, paolo is not wrong, but the "from
                                     each" and "to each" parts have to be
                                     mostly voluntary instead of externally
                                     imposed. - christian fuckhead
                                     imposed.  That's why it is very important
                                     for the country to have good solid Christian
                                     values because otherwise, all the ills
                                     of capitalism will get worse and worse.
                                     And when I say good solid Christian
                                     values, I don't mean the values of
                                     those ultra right-wing fake Christian
                                     Pharisee fuckheads who make me puke.
                                        - left-wing christian fuckhead
                                     \_ I hope you are right and human idiocy
                                        can be cured by the right environment,
                                        but I am not as optimistic.  Also,
                                        the 'Christian' in good values is
                                        incidental.  Most good people I know
                                        are not Christian, and most
                                        Christians I know are not good people.
                      \_ what have you got against Marx?  Groucho was one
                         of the finest thinkers of our times.
              they should suffer the consequence.
                      \_ It's also Christian.
                      \_ Think _Utopia_, by Thomas Aquinas. Much older than
                         \_ Thomas More not Thomas Aquinas.
              that may be a different story.
                            There's about a 300 year difference. --ulysses
           \_ Actually, it's the best immoral way to steal from others' lives.
        \_ From the description in this article, the MIT genius didn't
           bother to consult a tax lawyer before selling all his options
           and retiring. Its is own damn fault for not doing his homework.
           If you are in this business you should understand the tax
           consequences of options etc. AMT may be a killer, but you can
           plan for it. If you can't afford the AMT, then you shouldn't
           be playing.
           \_ Yeah, but these vicious tax laws help no one.
              \_ Sure they are!  They are helping kittens and small children!
                 They are helping us to promote diversity, and leverage
                 various special interest synergies!
                 \_ and they're even helping objectivist fools like you
                    \_ Well, I see I require personal growth before I can
                       grasp your more mature, 'progressive' point of view.
              \_ Granted AMT is evil. But it is the LAW. I agree that AMT
                 should be overturned, but its not like AMT lead to this
                 guy's death. Failing to do his "homework" lead to his
                 death. If he had just spent the time to do the AMT calc.
                 then he could have retired with like $4 mil in the bank.
                 And what sort of an idiot goes all to stock. Out of $5
                 mil wouldn't it be prudent to go $1 mil cash in a irrevocable
                 off-shore trust?
           \_ Plus you don't even need a tax lawyer to get a rough idea on how
              much AMT will cost you.  It's all written in the IRS Instruction
              booklet for years.  You don't even have to go one step further
              and read the IRS "Publication" series (at least I didn't need
              to).  Or if you're lazy, just run TurboTax.  The AMT law didn't
              just get added recently; it has existed for a long time.  Don't
              tell me that the instruction booklet is too hard for this
              one-time Stanfurd professor to understand.  If he wanted to
              gamble, for his own greed, for a higher selling price under
              well-explained rules, why should the public mourn for him ending
              up with a lower selling price?  If he wanted to gamble for a
              charity, or if the AMT laws were added after he placed his bet,
              that may be a different story.  -- 0x1
           \_ If you'd bothered to read the article, you'd know that it
              wasn't the AMT that got to him, it was holding his stock and
              losing his fortune that made him unhappy.
              \_ If you'd bothered to read the article, you'd know that it was
                 AMT that got to him because without AMT his unsold stock would
                 still have had value instead of causing massive lifelong tax
                         fluctuates and is volatile.  When a loan agent
                         calculates your net worth, stocks are included.
                 debt.  Thank you for trying.
        \_ There were people who exercised options and then could not
           sell because of SEC regulations who got screwed.  What about
           them?  --PeterM
           \_ What about them? The SEC has those regulations to keep the
              snake oil salesmen at bay. They sold snake oil. They lost.
                \_ "They sold snake oil".  They who?  This was just some dumb
                   professor shmuck, not anyone who knew anything.
           \_ Again, the SEC regulations were there before those people
              exercised their options.  Since they gambled at their own will
                         regulations, AMT laws, etc.
              under those regulations, they should suffer the consequence.
              -- 0x1
        \_ as other people have said, if you are dealing with the amount
           of money in stocks these people were dealing with and you DON'T
           consult a specialist about all these sorts of traps you are
           such a dumbass you don't deserve your money.
           \_ while I might agree that such a person wouldn't deserve the
              millions of dollars they think they're getting out of stocks,
              I think it's silly to put them hundreds of thousands of dollars
              into debt by taxing them on something they never really had.
                \_ they did have it.  They just didn't sell it when it was
                   worth something, because they wanted a bigger payoff.
                   Too bad.  -tom
                   \_ Stock has no value until sold.  Only then can you
                      calculate the gain.  Taxing the difference between the
                      option value and the current price is ridiculous.  The
                      market is floating, duh.  There's no profit until sold.
                      If I buy 100 shares of Tomware (symbol: RED) at 10 and
                    options are no longer options.  They are real stocks,
                    just like stocks people buy from the open market.  AMT
                    does not tax on vested options, only exercised ones.  When
                    someone gives you some stocks as a gift, you pay tax even
                    before you sell them because that's income.  It's the same
                    idea here for exercising stock options.  When you exercise
                    your options, the difference between the option price and
                    the stock's current price is income, so you pay tax even
                    before you sell the shares.
                      it climbs to 1000 the next day I have not made a profit
                      of 990 x 100 shares.  Stay with your government day job.
                      Options shouldn't be treated any differently.  There's
                      no other place in the tax code where one can get taxed
                      on unrealised profits.
                      \_ Technically, when you buy the options there is a sale.
                         The company sells you the shares at the option price.
                         Because there is a transaction, the feds want in. Its
                         wrong, but it is the law.
                      \_ Stocks have real value.  It's just that the value
                         fluctuates and is volatile.  When a real estate loan
                         agent calculates your net worth, stocks are included.
                         AMT does not tax the difference between the option
                         price and the current market price at the end of the
                         tax year.  It taxes the difference between the option
                         price and the then-current market price at the time
                         of exercising the options.  The difference between the
                         then-current price at time of exercise and the current
                         price at the end of tax year is unrealized profit,
                         agreed, and so you don't get taxed.  But the
                         difference between the option price and the then-
                         current price at time of exercise is realized profit,
                         hence you get taxed.  -- 0x1
                   \_ I can't agree more.
                   \_ While it may be true in most cases, I see a lot
                      of people who are utterly confused about 401ks,
                    current market price is income, so you pay tax even before
                    you sell the shares.  -- 0x1
                      SPPs and things like that, and I am not talking
                      about old ladies but engineers and software people.
                      I think this AMT thing is too tricky and dangerous
                      for many.
                      \_ When my ex-company first went IPO, all the employees
                         were *required* to attend an in-house presentation
                         during work hours that explained stock options, SEC
                         regulations, AMT laws, etc.  -- 0x1
        \_ What's wrong with taxing the realized gain when they sell it,
           like in stocks?
           \_ That hides the income indefinitely.  It's not appropriate
              when options are being used in lieu of salary.  -tom
              \_ It isn't income until sold.  Only then can one say what it is
                 worth, tax it, spend it, etc.  I can't pay my mortgage or my
                 grocery bills with options, even vested options.  Options are
                 not income or money or revenues or anything else of that
                 nature.  I can't put them in a bank.  I can't get interest on
                 them.  Options are only the "option" to buy a share of stock
                 at a certain price.  Nothing more.  It's just a promise from
                 the company.  This should be clear now.  Options != income and
                 thus should not be taxed until converted to stock and sold.
                 In fact, since the company has "first rights" to buy them from
                 the employee, they in theory have no value at all until the
                 company has _allowed_ the employee to sell them to someone
                 else in the open market.
                 \_ Vested options are just "options", correct.  But exercised
                    options are no longer options.  They are converted to real
                    stocks, just like stocks people buy from the open market.
                    You can put them in a brokerage account, you get dividens
                    from the company when it pays dividens, and you own
                    a certain percentage of the company,   AMT does not tax on
                    vested options, only exercised ones.  When someone gives
                    you some stocks as a gift, you pay tax even before you
                    sell them because that's income.  It's the same idea here
                    for exercising options.  When you exercise your options,
                    the difference between the option price and the stock's
                    then-current market price at time of exercise is income,
                    so you pay tax even before you sell the shares.  -- 0x1
                    \_ Question: If the stock price drops like a rock after
                       exercising the option, couldn't the person sell it
                       and claim a big capital loss, which will offset the
                       income tax incurred when the option is exercised?
                       If that is true, they didn't make anything on their
                       options, but wouldn't be taxed into a hole either.
                       So, what's the problem?
                                   $90000, while these poor dumb people have to
                       \_ You can only claim a $3000 capital loss per yr.
                          When dealing with the feds the rule is "you can't
                          \_ Capital loss can offset any amount of capital
                             gains right.  Make it such that if it is
                             higher than capital gains, allow it to
                             offset any amount of income tax incurred
                             as a result of AMT.  Seems like a reasonable
                             solution to me.
                             \_ Actually, you can get back AMT credits in
                                subsequent tax years after the year you pay
                                AMT, even if you are still holding the stocks.
                                (It might not be 100% of the AMT you've paid,
                                though.)  It's all in the IRS Instruction
                                booklets.  -- 0x1
                                \_ Yes, but 30 years * $3000 per year =
                                   $90000, while depending on how dumb they
                                   are, these poor fucked-up people have to
                                   pay hundreds of thousands if not millions
                                   of dollars in AMT taxes.
2002/2/5-7 [Reference/Tax] UID:23781 Activity:high
2/5     Is the "Standard Deduction" for taxes the same for all people
        or does it vary according to your income?
        \_ the same
        \_ probably different if you are single, married, head of household.
         \_ I don't like it much cause I make charitable contributions, and
            it adds up to just slightly above the "Standard Deduction" so
            I am not getting much of a tax break. - bitter-charitable-donor
            \_ The tax laws are written to benefit homeowners. Give it up.
               \_ Darn!  But I absolutely detest mowing the lawn, lugging
                  around wood shavings, fixing toilet, remodelling the
                  basement and stuff like that, and don't think I can
                  afford to hire someone to do it.  :(  Are tax laws kind
                  to small apartment owners too?
                  \_ if you buy a condo you'll get the same benefit.  -tom
                     \_ Mostly. "Homeowner Association" fees run $200/mo
                        or more and are not tax-deductable...unless you
                        rent out your condo and live somewhere else, but
                        that kind of defeats the purpose. --ulysses
                     \_ You also get to share in the liabilities of any
                        neglected maintenance.  A friend of mine just
                        moved out of a complex where they found that the
                        management had neglected termite inspections for
                        the enormous, central 4-floor wooden balcony/walkway
                        that connects and provides access to all the condos.
                        Now they each get to share in the multimillion dollar
                        \_ I wouldn't buy a condo, but the conversation was
                           about tax benefit.  -tom

You have new mail.
2002/2/2-5 [Reference/Tax] UID:23754 Activity:nil
2/3     Anybody tried using turbo tax to do taxes that require schedule C?
        I'm wondering if it's any good.  I've also seen a turbo tax "small
        business edition".  How different is it from the standard TT?  Thanks.
                \_ yes. yes. same shit with more text.
2002/1/31-2/1 [Reference/Tax] UID:23734 Activity:nil
1/31    Got any working / non-working old cell phones that you don't want?
        Check out  It's even tax-deductible.
        Don't forget the charger.
2002/1/27-28 [Reference/Tax] UID:23682 Activity:very high
1/25    WSJ provides numbers on who pays what taxes.
        \_ for those who don't want to register, use root@ as the
           email address.
        \_ Lying with statistics. The super-rich proportion of income has
           grown faster than their tax burden. For anothoer perspecitve:
           \_ Yes, lots of lies in there.  Like after-tax income for the
              bottom 20% fell, but they don't say that government aid has
              increased by a much larger percentage.  Anytime someone talks
              about "gaps" between one group of people and another one might
              ask one's self what, if anything, the people on the bottom end
              have done for themselves to improve their situation.  Lobbying
              government for wealth transfer through targeted higher taxes
              on other people doesn't count as doing something to improve
              one's self.
              one's self.  What kills me about these things is they compare
              absolute numbers but don't take inflation into account.  If I
              was making 1000 in 1979 and you were making 100 and then in 97
              I was making 1250 and you were making 200, then I've lost ground
              even though I've widened the gap.  Statistical lies, indeed.  Be
              careful how you read these things.
                      \_ Who said they didnt take inflation into acocunt?
                         Articles usually get that right but miss more subtle
                         "after-tax income grew an average of 157 percent over
                          this period for the top one percent of the popula-
                          tion, rose a modest 10 percent"
           \_ aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent.
              Forty percent of all people know that.
              have done for themselves to improve their situation.
                \_ one of the great myths of the selfish conservative is
                   that poor people "want to" be poor.  -tom
                        \_ Then YOU give them your money you fucking pussy.
              government for wealth transfer through targeted higher taxes on
              other people doesn't count as doing something to improve one's
              self.  What kills me about these things is they compare absolute
              numbers but don't take inflation into account.  If I was making
              1000 in 1979 and you were making 100 and then in 97 I was making
              1250 and you were making 200, then I've lost ground even though
              I've widened the gap.  Statistical lies, indeed.  Be careful how
              you read these things.
2002/1/25 [Reference/Tax] UID:23664 Activity:nil
1/24    man... I'm not going to bother even filing my tax returns this
        year. too much trouble. who cares anyway... I mean, its money
        that was never mine in the first place.
2002/1/14-15 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:23560 Activity:very high
1/14  Is it too late to contribute to Roth IRA for 2001?  How much
      can one contribute for 2001?  2002?
      \_ No. $2000. $3000. !an accountant
      \_it's more complicated... CA Tax Franchise Board
        still goes by the old rules... so.. if you want
        to be safe, then it is $2000
      \_ The last day to contribute to a Roth IRA for 2001 is 4/15/2002.
             With the new tax law signed by President Bush on 6/7/01:
                year    max contribution (age < 50)     (age >= 50)
                2001                     $2000          $2000
                2002                     $3000          $3500
                2003                     $3000          $3500
                2004                     $3000          $3500
                2005                     $4000          $4500
                2006                     $4000          $5000
                2007                     $4000          $5000
                2008                     $5000          $6000
                2009+   Annually adjusted for inflation in increments
                        of $500.  Those who are 50 years old or older
                        can contribute $1000 more (called catch-up
                If one makes less than the max contribution amount, one can
                only contribute the compenstaion made during the year.
             Also, the phase out income for singles is still 95K-110K (AGI) and
                150-160K (couples).   - yakurar
                150-160K (couples).   - yakura
      \_ Thanks for all the answers!  You guys are great!  These 401k match,
         tax deferment, SPPs, Roth IRA are all great, but do any of you find
         it difficult to squeeze out so much money for retirement?  I mean,
         I still want to buy some toys.
         \_ Budget. Plus with 401k, the money never gets into your bank
            account to spend. Monthly auto-deductions work too.
         \_ I manage to max out my 401k even though I still have to send
            $1k/mo non-tax-deductible to my parents.  And I don't make top
                \_ Oh yeah?  How'd your 401k do in the last 18 months?
         \_ I do it by having roommates. You can save a lot on rent that way.
            And not driving a car. Add up how much a car costs you and
            you will see that taking a cab 10 times a month is cheaper.
            \_ Having an apartment mate is a good idea, except that my parents
               like to visit for around 3 months every summer, so I can only
               find short term apartment mates.
            \_ Biking is also cheaper than driving a car and having a gym
               membership.  (But keep a cheap one around for trips)
        \_ Stop buying meat for cooking at home.  You'll save a few hundred for
           the year and you can eat with impudence at a restaurant.  (Health
           and money-wise)
2001/11/6 [Reference/Tax] UID:22948 Activity:nil
11/6    I personally don't see how rate-cut and tax-break would in any way
        stimulate the abysmal economy we're in now. What yall think?
        \_ I think you are wrong.
2001/10/29-30 [Reference/Tax] UID:22855 Activity:very high
10/28   I filed my federal taxes on time but am going to file my
        CA taxes late. I didn't have any taxes due (I'm supposed
        to get a refund). Do I have to pay penalties?
        \_ Are there any good websites with examples or
           online calculators that show exactly how to calculate the
           penalty and interest if you did owe taxes?
        \_ No penalty if you don't have any tax due.  You get six months
           automatic extension which is over btw.  Not sure what happens
           after six months.
           \_ There is a possiblity of a penalty if you were required to
              file a tax return, even if you are owed money. And you have
              until April 15, 2005 to clain your money. Be sure to have a
              finished tax form.
        \_ Next time you plan to pay late you should pay estimated taxes on
           time so if you end up with a penalty itll be miniscule because the
           penalties are based on what you owe.  Estimated minus real taxes
           should be a small difference.  And oh yeah, hire someone to help
           if you have anything even remotely non-trivial such as house or
           whatever.  The few hundred bucks you'll pay out in that will be
           saved by knowing you did it right and by the extra bucks they find
           \_ Nit. He's getting a return...
2001/9/7 [Reference/Tax] UID:22344 Activity:moderate
9/6     What can I do to help this economy? I need a company to hire me!
        \_ Spend the tax refund check ASAP.
           \_ ok, done. Now what?
           \_ spend it on a call girl. That way the gov't doesn't get
              more income tax.
                   \_ What does "BBFS" stand for?
2001/7/16 [Reference/Tax] UID:21808 Activity:kinda low
7/15    doerr repents!
        \_ "Too little, too late" comes to mind
        \_ so he knew it all along...
        \_ Yeah, he repented so he could ask for more tax breaks.
2001/7/16-17 [Reference/Tax] UID:21807 Activity:nil
7/16    I'm looking for a book on the mechanics of how to start a business
        from home.  License requirements, overview of taxes, sole
        proprietorship or LLC, etc.  Thanks.
        \_ Envelope stuffing is not a respectable business.
        \_ And I am a SHM looking for an attractive, 20-something SF that
           works part-time as a model and does technical contracting on the
2001/6/28 [Reference/Tax] UID:21655 Activity:high
6/27    If I buy a house, I will have to sell 1/2 of my options and ESPP and
        pay more than 1/2 of my post tax saving to the mortgage. On top of
        that, I will need to mow the lawn, put in the fertilizer, spray
        pests, add Weed-B-Gone, re-tile the kitchen, re-grout the bathtub,
        repaint the interior, wash the carpet, fix the faucet, repair the
        air conditioner, and mow the lawn. I will spend most of my vacation
        in Home Depot. Fuck! Who ingrained this stupid idea that you gotta
        get a house? Fannie Mae and Kaufman and Broad?
        \_ man condo
           \_ More to the point,
              man condom
        \_ The federal government. If they eliminated the tax advantages
           it might be a different ballgame. It's also a good way to
           gain leverage on an investment. -dim
           \_ yeah, fuck house and marriage and child tax breaks. this is a
              clear example of the majority screwing over the minority.
        \_ Home Depot sucks, go to a real hardware store.  -tom
           \_ Care to expound?  I've always enjoyed trips to HD
                \_ They have crappy quality for most of their stuff, nothing
                   with any style, they don't have funky screws or parts you
                   need for projects (unless you want to buy 100 of them),
                   and the people who work there are 90% morons.  -tom
                   \_ if you want a really funky part within 24 hours, i
                      think that <DEAD><DEAD> is by far the best
                      online story of any kind, and certainly the largest
                      supplier of weird hardware.  Want a 2 meter metric
                      threaded rod?  at your door by 4:00 pm tomorow.
        \_ Just pay someone to do the yard ($5 per hr per person)
2001/6/12-13 [Reference/Tax, Industry/Startup] UID:21490 Activity:moderate
6/12    Where do employees get W-2s next January after a company closes down
        this year.
        \_ Possibly from the accounting firm or payroll company, but even
           if not you can petition the IRS to allow you to state your own
           earnings and tax contributions. They may not even audit it. I'd
           save your latest payroll stubs in case they do. --dim
2001/6/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:21473 Activity:high
6/10    I sent my taxes on April 14, anybody else who sent theirs last minute
        get their fed, refund in the mail yet?
        \_ yes
        \_ yes. I got mine two weeks ago... and I didn't even send it in ontime
        \_ I mailed my 1040 in on 4/14 and I got my refund via direct deposit
           on 5/11.
        \_ I sent mine in on the 12th of April and I got mine back about a
           week and a half ago.
        \_ I sent mine April 16 and got mine back two weeks ago.
2001/5/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:21281 Activity:kinda low
5/15    How long does it tax for the CA State to cash my tax payment check?
        It's been almost one month. The IRS cashed it in a week.
        \_ You'd think Davis would want your money as fast as possible these
        \_ usually very fast like within a week.  maybe your CA return
           is lost in the mail.
        \_ I mailed my CA forms on the 15th and the check was cached on the
           24th.                                        indeed _/
2001/5/7-8 [Reference/Tax] UID:21194 Activity:high
5/7     Anybody ever been audited by the IRS?  I know every case is different,
        but do they ever go through your bank statement and ask you where
        every deposit came from?   Thanks.
        \_ Yes they do.
        \_ First thing you do if you get audited is hire a tax lawyer who deals
           specifically with helping people through audits.  The last thing the
           IRS wants to deal with is someone who fights back.
2001/4/25 [Reference/Tax] UID:21108 Activity:nil
4/25    Is there a govt agency that keeps track of how many people are moving
        in and out of a region?  I'm interesting the population growth
        patterns in the Bay Area.  Down to the county level.  And no, census
        data is no good because it happens once every 10 years.  I need
        year-to-year data.  Thanks.
        \_ Try DMV.  I think that's the agency which the most people are
           required to register (most adults have driver's license, some of
           the adults who don't driver get IDs), so that's most likely the
           agency with the most accurate data that exist.  Hmm, actually IRS
           may be better.  Most adults file with IRS, and most children are
           dependents of some adults.
        \_ The full census may be only every ten years, but the Census Bureau
                is constantly collecting and tracking data like this.
        \_ IRS.  They know more about you than the census bureau.  Also county
           tax recorder but not as accurate.
2001/4/16-17 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:20998 Activity:insanely high
        Is this an accurate portrayal of how (incentive) stock options
        can get you screwed.  I.e.,
        (0) Your stock options are about to expire.
        (1) Your exercise price is 10 cents.
        (2) You exercise when the stock is worth $100 per share.
        (2a)You don't sell your stock, in hopes the price will shoot higher
            or you want to hold it a year for long-term cap gains
        (3) The stock falls to $1 per share.
        (4) Your tax liability is $99.90 * (# shares), regardless of
            the fact that the stock is now worth $1 per share.
        \_ The whole problem with this model is that it assumes that
           your failed to pay your taxes at the time of exercise. Now
           only a retard would do that. If you ask the broker to withhold
           40% for Fed, 10% for State and the min for ther other stuff,
           you will not get nailed on Apr 15.
           \_ Yeah right, take this advice from the motd.
           \_ I presume you "pay your taxes at the time of exercise" by
              selling enough shares at the time of exercise?
        \_ Why not sell your shares at the time you exercise your options?
           If you're not going to sell them then why exercise unless they
           are about to expire? You can always buy some back. --dim
           \_ Okay, I've amended the list.
           \_ Some people also want to utilize the lower federal tax rate of
              20% for long-term capital gain.
              \_ Okay, I've amended the list.
        \_ In what situation should the government EVER be able to tax a
           paper gain.  If I haven't made INCOME, how the HELL can this event
           be taxed with an INCOME TAX?
           be taxed with an INCOME TAX?  --scotsman
           \_ Simple. The options themselves were income. The company gave them
              to you. The value of the options is the spread at the time of
              exercise; underwater options are worthless. When you exercise,
              you're getting stock worth a certain value for less than that
              value, that's income. if they drop to 1% of that value that's
              a capital loss. There's no magic here people. If you buy stock
              that drops 99% you're fucked, welcome to the real world.
           \_ Simple.  This is unconstitutional.
           \_ It's taxed as Alternative Minimal Tax, not as Income Tax.
           \_ Damn, you made a killing by buying a $100 share for 10 cents
              and you are so greedy you want it taxed as long-term capital
              gains. You deserve what you get. I suppose if it went up to
              to $200 during the next year, you'd want all $200 taxed as
              long-term too.
              \_ Er..  No..  I want it treated as you would treat any income.
                 Paper gains are not income.  If you bought a $100 share for
                 10 cents, you didn't "make a killing."  You didn't "make"
                 anything.  You wouldn't make anything until you sold it, at
                 which point your income would be value less base cost, which
                 in this case would be the stock's worth - 10 cents.  Get a
                 fucking clue before you try to argue.  --scotsman
        \_ After a peek at form 6251, I'm truly amazed.  Stock Options
           exercised is the only item on that list that is not actual
           income, interest, or depreciation.  That's gotta be illegal.
2001/4/15-16 [Reference/Tax] UID:20986 Activity:very high
4/14    When must I use form 6251 AMT tax form?
        \_ The only way to know for sure is to calculate it and see.  If you
           exercised stock, took a large number of exemptions and a long list
           of other things GOOGLE can easily point you to, then maybe.
        \_ When the IRS instructions, TurboTax or your CPA tell you to.
           If you exercised stock options, the odds are high you need it.
           Don't bet your financial future on motd advice.
        \_ If you're already paying close to 35%-40% taxes, don't expect to
           need to pay AMT.  You've been screwed hard enough.  -screwed
                \_ Expect to pay AMT when you least expect it, it exists
                   solely to screw you harder than you've ever been screwed
                \_ There was an article in SJ Mercury coupla days ago about
                   a Cisco guy owing millions on Cisco options he exercised.
                   As of the date of the article, he still needs to scrap up
                    \_  owe 700K-1M in AMT on stock options that aren't worth
                        that much?  Just borrow the money from the your company
                        to pay (secure the loan with those soon to be worthless
                        options) and watch the company go out of business that
                        much faster!  That's what the exec's at my company did.
                        \_ Uhm, yeah.  Sure.  Reality check.  Thanks.
                    \_ Well, he had his chance to sell as soon as he exerciesd
                       at the price used as the AMT basis.  He wanted to get
                       more money in return so he had to assume the risk.
                       even more money in return so he had to assume the risk.
                       exercised his options.
                       Can't blame this on IRS.  AMT wasn't invented after he
                       exercised his options.  Plus he will eventually get his
                       AMT credit back in a later tax year when he sells his
                       stocks below the AMT basis price anyway, even if the
                       selling price is above the option price and he actually
                       makes a profit.
                      \_ Bzzt.  You don't get all of the credit back because
                         the deduction calculation is different.
                         \_ At least the whole downside was already there when
                            he made the decision not to sell his shares right
                            away.  It's not like something was added to it
2001/4/15 [Reference/Tax] UID:20983 Activity:high
4/13    That's just like the motd these days. I finally got someone cornered
        in an argument and someone purges it. But since the guy is too lazy
        \_ freeBSD SUCKS!
        to figure out our tax code, I think it's my duty to educate him. A
        single person making $100k will pay a little over $31k in state and
        federal combined and not the 39.5% that some people claim. But we
        can see who stands to benefit from this upper class tax cut. Bush
        will get back about $40k from retroactive tax relief while Cheney
        is a whole other story. But I have sympathy for Cheney. He'll need
        that money for future heart surgery so he deserves the millions he
        sits on. Incidentally, the upper bracket relief is almost equivalent
        to the amount of their money that goes towards debt service (a little
        more actually). So instead of dealing with this issue which will
        guarantee future long term tax cuts we're giving a massive short-term
        tax cut mostly aimed at that 39.5% group.
        \_ Uh no. As a percentage of earnings people in the "middle-class"
           (earning between 30K and 60K) will get the most tax relief.
           People how pay 100K plus in taxes may get back more money, but
           as a percentage, thier relief is much lower. And you forget
           that the top 1% bares 40% of the tax burden in this country.
           They have a right to get back more.
           \_ And the top 1% also commands 40% of the political influence
              in this country (with the exception of McCain, Fiengold, and
              a few other scrupulous people up there). Besides, if you
              were to interpret the 14th amendment to mean that there exist
              a single fixed rate tax bracket you would still have an
              unbalanced ratio. It may not be 1:40 like you said but it
              would still be widely uneven. 1% of the population bare 40%
              of the tax burden because they make a lot more money too.
              I've calculated how this will impact my taxes and it pales
              in comparison to what Bush will be getting in return.
              Every day I work my ass off more than Bush (who didn't even
              take college seriously) ever did. Here I am struggling to
              pay rent and he's in the White House waiving his magic wand.
                \_ Why?  They can afford to pay more.  There is no right
                   to equal taxation in the Constitution.
                   \_ 14th amendment
                \_ Boston Tea Party you moron.  You can't make someone
                   pay 40% of the bill and get 1% of the representation.
                   \_ as opposed to now, where I pay 40% of the bill, and
                      get 0% representation?
                      \_ do you expect the guy earning $6/hr to pay for
                         the freeway that takes both of you to work so
                         you can buy his fast-food to save your time?
2001/4/14 [Reference/Tax] UID:20972 Activity:nil
4/13    That's just like the motd these days. I finally got someone cornered
        in an argument and someone purges it. But since the guy is too lazy
        to figure out our tax code, I think it's my duty to educate him. A
        single person making $100k will pay a little over $31k in state and
        federal combined and not the 39.5% that some people claim. But we
        can see who stands to benefit from this upper class tax cut. Bush
        will get back about $40k from retroactive tax relief while Cheney
        is a whole other story. But I have sympathy for Cheney. He'll need
        that money for future heart surgery so he deserves the millions he
        sits on. Incidentally, the upper bracket relief is almost equivalent
        to the amount of their money that goes towards debt service (a little
        more actually). So instead of dealing with this issue which will
        guarantee future long term tax cuts we're giving a massive short-term
        tax cut mostly aimed at that 39.5% group.
2001/4/13 [Reference/Tax] UID:20968 Activity:high
4/13    How many people deduct the cost of computer books for their taxes?
        \_ me
        \_ if itemizing, you can make a case for it.
2001/4/13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:20962 Activity:insanely high
4/12    Are there any good links on the thing about the federally income tax
        not being legal?  My google search only got me a lot of yellow on red
        background rants with LOTS of CAPS for EMPHASIS.  I'd like to see
        something a bit more scholarly than the typical conspiracy crap. on
        the net.  Thanks.
        \_ Overseen on wall.log:
           Boredcast Message from 'tom': Fri Apr 13 09:03:16 2001

           it's not important that americans get a tax cut at all.
           americans are severely undertaxed

            \_ Tom! Say it ain't so!!  I knew you were a big-gov't anti-gun
                Fascist but this is TOO much.  It must be lie; slander.
                Perhaps you were on a bad trip. explainP -Formerly Tom Fan #11
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD>
          \_ if only this guy started to refute motd claims as well
        \_ Search on
        \_ Just pay your fucking taxes.. sheesh.
              \_ I will pay my taxes (for now). But at least I know
                 that taxes are illegal and amount to extortion from
                 liberals who want to waste my money on crappy projects
                 that are completely worthless.
                \_ who pays for the glorious american infrastructure
                   you are using RIGHT NOW?
                 \_ [ deleted ]
                  \_ Wow, this is the longest I've ever seen an
                     anti-liberal post go without being deleted/censored.
                     What gives?  [restored.  twice]
                    \_ tom must be idle.  At lunch on his gub'mint
                       salary job.
           \_ Typical motd "I don't want to think about anything" spewage.
              Just what exactly is wrong with asking for a link about a
              current event topic?  Even if the stuff is totally bogus, some
              people still find it interesting.  More interesting than the
              Yet Another Security Bug,  "yermom", C++ weirdness, or small
              penis links that get posted.  "WAAH!  It's outside the scope
              of my little geek world!  Don't think about it!  Don't post on
              it!  I want to stay ignorant and boring!"
2001/4/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:20940 Activity:kinda low
4/10    if you take stock in lieu of 1/2 your salary, do you need to
        declare it as "income"?
        \_ Look at all these poor suckers doing their taxes at the
           last minute. I did my taxes more than a year ago.
           \_ So you stopped making money in 2000 since March?
        \_ No, you need to declare it as insanity.
           \_ seriously - i didn't need the cash and thought that
              the package was decent.
        \_ what's the max amount you can earn and not have to pay
           taxes?  Is it still $8000?
           \_ Anyone under $50k/year isn't paying enough to matter.
        \_ anything you earn is income.  A better question maybe how
           to report it.
        \_ If the stock was given to you as an Option (ISO or NQ)
           then you don't have to report it till you exercise. If
           you have already exercised, then you will need to report
           it as either short-term capital gains, long-term capital
           gains or a combination of regular income and short/long
           term capital gains.
           \_ I agree with this guy
           \_ has some info
           \_ It's short-term capital gains if you exercised and sold.  If you
              exercised and held it for more than a year, it's long-term
              capital gains at the time of the sale.  *HOWEVER*, if you
              exercised ISOs and didn't sell them during that tax year, then
              you probably owe AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax) in the tax year
              that you exercised.  In this case, hire a professional, because
              you WILL need help.
        \_ If the stock was given straight out (i.e. not as options) then
           you're most likely screwed since it will count as income at the
           market value on the day you got it, even if it's at 1% of that
           price now.  Call a CPA.
2001/4/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:20937 Activity:kinda low
4/11    Anyone have any experience with Turbo Tax? Was it worth it? Was it
        the web version or stand-alone? Thanks.         - rory
        \_ I just did all my taxes in 2 hours with TT. Had a glitch
           doing electronic filing, but pretty smooth otherwise.
           It's just too expensive, otherwise its good.
           \_ If your taxes are bone head simple, yes.
        \_ I've used the web version for the past two years. My taxes
           are not overly complicated or overly easy (married filing
           jointly, itemized deductions because of mortgage, no major
           investments). I've been happy both times.
2001/4/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:20936 Activity:nil
4/11    Last year I filled out my tax return s using only information i got
        off of the motd.  when the irs demanded to know why everything
        was "screwed up" i had to explain to them about the magical
        powers of the motd, and how everything heard here is true.  finally,
        i was able to convince them by showing them several days worth
        of motd that indeed it was all true, and they let me have my
        way.  this year i'm declaring my schlong as a tax deduction,
        and don't expect any trouble.
        \_ it sounds like a loss to me.
           \_ I think the IRS code says he pays based on his girth to length
              calculation computer from lines 14 and 12 on the 1040GL form.
              It's likely he won't owe anything this or any other year in
              which the result on line 16 is 1.2 or less.  That's something
              that snuck into tax law by executive order on december 31st.
2001/3/20-21 [Reference/Tax] UID:20857 Activity:moderate
3/19    Are Roth IRA, Rollover IRA, 401K, etc., etc. losses tax deductable?
                  \_ ERIN GO BRAUGH!
        \_ What do you think since you don't pay capital gains taxes on
           gains? --dim
           \_ Let me clarify.  I mean are these tax deductable IF I am to cash
              out on these funds (willing to pay the 10% penalty, regular
              taxes, etc.).  I can more than make up for the penalty and taxes
              with my deduction (even if it's over a couple of years).
              - original poster
           \_ NO. Stop fucking around.
           \_ Once you take it out, you can't get it back in, so you're
                                uhhuhuhuh. huhuhehuhuh. _/
              giving up N decades of tax advantaged gains. Very short sighted.
                \_ Or N decades of losses.  YMMV.
2001/3/20 [Reference/Tax] UID:20854 Activity:nil
3/19    The IRS 1040 form for recently laid-off dotcom employees:
        \_ That is SO 9:32 am...
           \_ Uh, this is so last week, like wednesday or so.
              Next you'll be telling us about that Tokyo Breakfast
2001/3/16-17 [Reference/Tax] UID:20816 Activity:low
3/16    Thinking of e-filing your Taxes? Think again:
        \_ The sky is falling!  The sky is falling!
        \_ Sorry, I already did.
          \_well after reading the article, you see that was stupid.
          no need to apologize, though.
2001/2/27 [Reference/Tax] UID:20710 Activity:high
2/26    Is tax software like TurboTax good for people who trade stocks and
        just purchased a home last year carring a mortgage?  I mean is it good
        enough to guide you through all the misc stuff like county tax, escrow,
        point fees, etc. and squeeze in every cent of possible legal deduction
        one can claim?  I'm thinking about whether I should use TurboTax or
        get a tax accountant.  Thanks.
        \_ get a tax accountant, doubt TT is that optimal.  (otherwise, there
           will be no tax accountant)
            \_Falacious argument
           \_ Accountants become more valuable the "weirder" or more complex
              your situation is. This guy's situation sounds fairly normal.
              Then again, he sounds like an idiot, so...
                \_ Therefore, as an idiot, he should get a tax guy to do his
2001/2/21 [Reference/Tax] UID:20641 Activity:nil
2/19    Can a good CPA really save you more money than turbotax?  I finished
        doing my taxes with turbotax and I'm considering paying a CPA to do
        it again.  Just to see if he/she can find more deductions and ways of
        saving me money.  Has anybody done the same?  What was the result?
        \_ Yes. Yes. Good.
        \_ If you did your taxes and ended up ahead (or even close to) the
           Standard Deduction when you Itemized, you might want to go for it
           (get the CPA).  If the Std was solidly in the lead, they probably
           won't be able to magically find multi-thousand-dollar things for
           you to deduct.
           \_ depends on whether you have 1099 income from independent sources
              or not.  With it, you can deduct items not incl. in the standard.
              \_ But presumeably TT would have caught that...
              \_ If you have 1099-MISC income of any import, go see a CPA.
                 The interactive "What-if" walkthrough w/ accountant nabbed a
                 good $6k extra return for me, at a cost of $500 for the
2001/1/25 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20428 Activity:very high
1/24    "'I think the evidence is going to become more and more clear that the
        economy is not as hopeful as we would like, which I hope will strengthen
        my case (for a tax cut)," Bush told reporters at the start of the
                \_ I read an interesting discussion on why simplistic view
                   of economics is fundamentally flawed.  What if the
                   economy was in a boom cycle?  Does that mean the
                   reverse is true, that it's time for a tax hike?
                   How would Bush explain this one?
                   \_ It means the economy is doing well _despite_ higher
                      taxes.  Taxes, fees, and regulations hinder economic
                      growth.  The right idea is to set tax levels and other
                      regulations at a high enough level to maintain infra-
                      structure, run the government, do some social welfare,
                      and keep the water drinkable, while limited economic
                      impact as much as possible.  It's a delicate balancing
                      act.  There is no good time for a tax hike, economically
                      speaking.  Taxes are a relatively new concept compared
                      to economics over the course of human history.
                        \_ What are you talking about?  The Romans had
                           taxes.  Is 2000 years relatively new?
                           \_ Yes.  And would you point to a dead and failed
                              mess like Rome that collapsed under it's own
                              weight and mismanagement, not outside influences
                              as a successful way to run a nation?  Yes, the
                              Romans got beat on by various 'barbarians', but
                              taking a step back, it was their own fault they
                              got pounded.  It didn't have to be that way.
                              \_ You dumb, he wasing arguing for the Roman
                                 system or a tax system.  His point was that
                                 2000 years isn't new.  Besides, how do you
                                 foresee the US isn't going to collapse under
                                 its own weight and mismanagement?
                           \_ And the Chinese had taxes 4000 years ago too.
                           \_ As well as a slave-based economy, massive
                              inflation, and not much of a trade deficit,
                              compared to the US.  -John
                                \_ And they drank from lead cups, wore togas,
                                   and had cool parties.
                           \- The Romans certainly did it "their way" --psb
                           "... a capital levy often defeats its own
                           purpose. The return was at once seen to be
                           disappointing. From virtue or from caution,
                           men refused to purchase estates as they came
                           on the market. Money soared in value.
                           The Triumvirs then imposed a levy on the
                           posession of opulent females, arousing
                           indignant protest ... other taxes, novel and
                           crushing, were invented ..."
                           --Sir Ronald Syme, The Roman Revolution, Book XIV.
2001/1/19-21 [Reference/Tax] UID:20374 Activity:moderate
1/19    For those of you recommending contract work, do you recommend
        being, like a taos whore, or do you recommend pimping for
        yourself? (if so, how do you market yourself/get gigs?).  I'm
        interested as applies to sys. admin, not programming.
        \_ I was lucky--I found a guy who takes care of some friends'
           contracts.  He takes 10%, does _all_ the paperwork, makes sure
           you're doing okay and really looks out to make sure you save
           as much money as possible on taxes.  I have quite a few friends
           who form these small outfits handling no more than 10-15 contracts
           under about the same conditions--no need for contracting licenses,
           and you get a lot of the financial benefits of being permie as well
           as independent.  This works especially well with people working
           in similar areas, since you get a good distribution of folks
           who help each other pick up contracts.  Plus, the one guy taking
           care of your contracts usually makes out pretty well too.  -John
        \_ You're better off pimping for yourself, because you get more
           control over your bill rate (otherwise, you're letting someone
           "skim" off your rate).  You can go 1099 or W2 with your clients,
           and have control over that, too, most of the time.  Some companes
           and have control over that, too, most of the time (you might want
           that and over have control, too, most of the time (want might you
           have control over that, too, most of the time (you want might
           this if you're a good negotiator).  Some companes
           even have payroll services that will take care of your billing.
           One of the ways you can get contracts is to post your resume
           on contractor-heavy resume sites like, and
           However, if out starting you're, might want start to you out
           on contractor-heavy resume sites like, and
           However, if you're starting out, you might want to start out
           with a small boutique firm like John mentions above.  They are
           more flexible with you and you can have a closer relationship
           with your agency.  My friend, John (not the john above), has
           his own agency at -- you can check him out or
           any of the smaller agencies around the Bay Area.  --chris
        \_ It is kind of hard to get your first few contracts, especially
           if you have not built up a reputation in the area where you are
           looking for work. You can expect to have to lower your rate
           for your first few jobs. Negotiate that in return for them
           agreeing to serve as a reference.
2001/1/15-16 [Reference/Tax] UID:20320 Activity:high
1/15    I'm currently on contract with a software company.  They've opened
        a discussion with me about going perm there.  Can someone tell me the
        pros and cons of each..?
        \_ Contractor: more $, more IRS paperwork
                                \_ just use turbotax, a lot easier.  or get
                                   a tax accountant if you're making $$$$$$
           \_ If you go perm, they will also pay your social security taxes.
              That's another 1.5%.
           Perm: less $, more benefits, more stability, opportunity to advance
           \_ For family people.
        \_ Perms: stock options.
                \_ and insurance, and ESPP, and everything else you
                   would call "more benefits".  Thanks for adding nothing.
2001/1/9-10 [Reference/Tax] UID:20274 Activity:nil
1/8     How much are property taxes?                    -virgin house owner
        \_ usually around 1% of what you bought your house for.  lots cheaper
           than renting.
        \_ renting is for plebs.  Anyway, contact the local assessor's office
           about it.  The mortage folks should have told you this when you were
           signing the final loan papers.  Call them and ask who to contact if
           you can't figure it out.
           \_ Spelling mistake corrected.
                \_ Thank you.  -tax paying home owner too busy watching his
                                net worth increase to note spelling errors
                        \_ I smell copper coins.
2001/1/6-16 [Reference/Tax] UID:20252 Activity:nil
1/5     What does "head of household" mean? Am I allowed to claim an
        exemption if I don't have a family?
        \_ It means you're supporting someone. It could be a kid or a
           relative, but you can't claim it if you're single and supporting
           only yourself. --dim
        \_ The 1040 Instruction explains it pretty clearly.  AFAIR if you're
           single and you're living with someone and you pay more than half
           of the living expenses (rent, utility, etc.), you can claim it.
           Paying for his/her tuition doesn't count, for example, because
           tuition is not a living expense.  Please refer to the 1040
           Instruction booklet.
        \_ RTFM. damn, it's in the default tax booklets afterall.
           \_ RTFM THIS: Fuck you.
              \_ That spells RTFY
2000/12/30 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20196 Activity:moderate 75%like:20190
12/27   Bush is a machine.      -mogul
        \_ The smart one or the dumb one?
        \_ Bush won.  Get over it and enjoy the lower taxes.
           \_ No new taxes this time?
              \_ He never asked you to read his lips.
              \_ He's from Texas. Texas is an anagram of taxes.
              \_ Yup.  Having learned not to trust the Democrats, that
                 mistake won't be made twice.  Never deal with people who
                 put party politics above nation.  Less than 22 full days
                 left and counting down.  Still looking for a legacy.  I
                 think peace in the middle east is a good one.
2000/11/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:19728 Activity:nil
11/10   Anyone have a good link to tax rates from 1940 to today?
        \_ yer not gonna find a correlation between parties and tax rate
2000/11/10-11 [Reference/Tax] UID:19720 Activity:insanely high
11/10   What did Bush Sr. do during his presidency?
           \_ Not much. He tried to continue the work of RWR to varying
              degrees of success. He was a good man, but not a great
              president. To his credit, he was a good honorable man
              who tried to do what he believed was right for America
              regardless of the personal cost. I think that this can
              be said of perhaps most Presidents in the 20th century
              with the notable exception of Clinton.
              \_ Wow! Suddenly becoming so kind, warm and fuzzy when
                 it comes to Bush Sr.
                 In that case, I would say that Clinton is a good man
                 with kind heart, and a good president, but has
                 personal weaknesses.
                 \_ No. If Clinton just got a "lewinsky" I would go
                    for this. But the problems with national security,
                    the disregard for the rule of law, etc prevents
                    me from saying this.
                    If you read my comments, I think that most Presidents,
                    regardless of thier party affiliation and my opinion
                    of thier policies, had a single goal: The betterment
                    of American and her citizens. Clinton did not. He
                    only cared about Clinton.
        \_ He made the political error of raising taxes at a time it was
           the right thing to do for the country and paid the price.
           \_ It wasn't that he raised taxes, but that he did it after
              "Read my lips..."
           \_ There is never a right time to raise taxes. But it is
              always the right time to lower taxes.
        \_ he defeated the biggest threat to Western Civilization and the
           Free World since the USSR -- Iraq.
           \_ Nah the biggest threat was Milosevic and the Serbian
              nationalist butchers, who are soundly defeated by
              the US under the leadership of President Clinton.
                \_ In what way was Milosevic a threat to the free world and
                   western civilization?
                   \_ At the end of the millenium, the actions of Milosevic
           \_ That was Reagan. It just happened while Bush was president.
                \_ We are talking about Iraq, not USSR.
                      and the Serbian nationalist butchers right at the
                      backyard of Europe throw into doubt that our great
                      Western Civilization has made any progress since the
                      defeat of the nazis and facists 50 years ago.
        \_ Reagan is like Bill Walsh.  Bush Sr is like George Seifert.
           No, I'm not going to compare Clinton to Mariucci.

{deleted a few older threads to save space, not to censor them}
2000/8/25-26 [Reference/Tax] UID:19096 Activity:high
8/24    I'm buying a house in Silicon Valley. Is it a better idea to sell
        my ESPP stock or my options for my down payment? Thanks.
        \_ YOU ARE AN IDIOT! BUY HIGH???
        \_ Stock options.  Stock options have expiration dates.
        \_ The real answer is depends. Your options might expire, but
           if you sell your options in a same day sale, the acutal
           amount of money you are going to get is ~ 40% (Bill C needs
                                                     \_ ~ 58%
                                                        \_ Okay, I agree
                               that this number depends on the withholding
                               you specify at the time of the sale, but if
                               you specify any less than 32% you are going
                               to get shafted on 15 April. Read the fine
                               print and talk to a tax attorney, in some
                               cases the tax penalty starts on the day of
                               the sale. So, its like 32% tax + option
                               price + 7% state + 1% medicare + 1.5% SSI.
                               Maybe adding the option price isn't exactly
                               right, since you have to pay that anyway.
           is cut). If you make a lot of profit (greater than $250K) you
           may get even less because of AMT. Note that this is for non-qual
                                        \_ wrong
           options (the kind that you get if you join a company after it
                        \_ wrong
           is public). For ISO options (the kind you should get if you join
           a pre-ipo company) the % Bill C gets is a little differnet and
                \_ wrong
           you may walk away with as much as 60% - 70% even on a same day
           sale. If you decided to buy your non-qual options and hold them
           after 1 yr you can walk away with up 75%. The story of ESPP shares
                \_ Please don't use Bill C.  He doesn't get taxes you paid.
                   Otherwise, he'd be richer than Bill G.  Uncle S is the
                   \_ He's the DGLF that raised the tax rates and keeps
                      vetoing any tax relief. Bill C spends my money on
                      worthless crap like welfare and environmental reg.
                      when I would rather see it used for things like
                      ICBM's, Aircraft Carriers, Battle Ships, Space
                      Based Weapons Platforms, Mars landers etc.
                   person getting your taxes.
                   \_ All of you need to talk to Monica L.
           is different since you own them. All you have to do is wait until
           they have been held for more than 1 year and you just pay 20% of
           the profit to Bill C.
           \_ This person is wrong on several important points. Talk to a
              tax accountant; why the hell are you asking this here? And to
              this poster: stop giving advice --aaron
                \_ aaron, would you rather have a house or an Asian Chick?
                        \_ are they all out of chics? --aaron
2000/8/18-21 [Reference/Law/Court, Reference/Tax] UID:19038 Activity:kinda low
8/18    I need recommendations on estate planning books.  Something that
        covers trusts, living wills, tax saving plans, etc.  I'll try to
        do this myself first before consulting a CPA.  Thanks.
        \_ Nolo.  Good luck.
        \_ get a lawyer before you f*ck it up and end up giving most, or all,
        \_ get a lawyer before you fuck it up and end up giving most, or all,
           of it back to the government!
              \_ A laywer is necessary, but I think that he wants to do
                 his "homework" before talking to one. At $250/hr its best
                 to go in with a good idea of the problem space you are
                 dealing with.
                 \_ His lawyer will already know.  He's wasting his time.
           \_ The government sucks! -anarchist
           \_ the government sucks! -anarchist
2000/7/31-8/1 [Reference/Tax] UID:18819 Activity:high
 7/31   When tipping, do you calculate 15% before tax or after
tax?  I've
        always tipped based on the total including tax.  My GF says before
        tax.  Is she being cheap?
        \_ 20% after taxes, you cheap son of a bitch.  i cant belive a bunch
           of overpaid sofware people are so cheap.  oh, wait, it's because
           programmers are mostly assholes, i rememeber. alot of blue collar
           people i know pay closer to 30% when they get good service, and
           they make a loth less than most of you.  if you every wonder
           why people don't like you, now you know.
           \_ where does this come from?
           \_ I'm a software person, I pay 15% before tax, I think it's
              fair, I may increase the tip for good service, and people
           Orient. You go to a restaurant to enjoy the food, not the service.
              like me.  So there!
        \_ 8.25% x 2 = 16.50%
                -- my dad
        \_ before you dumbass
        \_ Easiest to add 25% to pre-tax.  This is more than either of your
           two methods.
        \_ before you dumbass
           (see how much we care about you?)
        \_ ignore the flamers below.  the standard rule of thumb is 15%
           for dinner BEFORE tax and 10% BEFORE tax when doing lunch.
           the easy way to calc this is to shift your pre-tax amount
           decimal point.  that number + half that number = tip.
           your GF is not being cheap.   make a reasonable judgement and
           remember always that waiters/waitresses have to live off
           tip (so living can be easy or very hard depending on the
           establishment).  if they go out of their way to provide excellent
           service and check on water, etc often, person deserves the
           15% tip.  But if the person's a rude motherfucker, you can tip
           5% or even file a formal complaint (lots of uppity ones in s.f.,
           in the finer dining places, apparently).  hope this helps...
           oh yeah, to avoid being an asshole, round up as necessary
           and don't leave little bits of change, unless you want to be
           really insulting to some nasty waiter/waitress.
        \_ after tax and exclude the price of drinks
           \_ only if you are tipping for the drinks when they arrive
        \_ tipping is a stupid practice that has been long banned in the
           Orient. You go to a restaurant to enjoy the dog, not the service.
           \_ Not entirely true.  There is no tipping in China (I heard) or
              Japan, but there is tipping in Hong Kong.  -- yuen
           \_ that doesnt change that fact that without tipping, they
              make $2.50 an hour. Yes, that's right, there's a hole in
              the minimum wage law for employees that recieve tips.
           \- in theory it is pre-tax, so one approach to get a baseline
                is to double the [calif] tax [per above suggestion]. i think
                it is stupid not to do some kind of rounding if you are paying
                with a credit card ... which you presumably are if it is a
                big bill. some say bar tipping is 10% but again i do some
                rouding in the $.75-$1 per drink range if it is mixed drink.
                you can tip less if the bartender is just pouring out 4 shots.
                some people also recommend tipping better early at the bar
                to increase your poll() weighting [as opposed to waiting].
                at a high end place, where the waiter has to do a lot more,
                you may consult with the wime person etc. you may need to
                tip more than 15% ... for a 3.5 hour dinner with flawless
                service, tipping 15% is lame.
           \_ As someone who both works in foodservice and has a gf who does
              the same, allow me to lay out some guidelines:
              1) The server has to report tips, which they are then taxed on.
                 The server's employer usually _requires_ them to report 8%
                 (any less and the restaurant gets audited). Therefore if you
                 tip less than 8%, it costs the server money (they have to pay
                 taxes on a tip they did not get.
              2) Sitting at the same table all afternoon also costs the server
                 $$$.  waiters depend on turnover, and chilling at one table
                 (esp. a big one) denies them this. Tip extra if you spend all
                 \_ only if there aren't other free tables in their area
              3) Drinks are not taxed in CA. If you drink $50 in beer and $20
                 in food (assuming your server is bringing you those pitchers)
                 the tax will only be on the $20. Doubling the tax is not
              4) Sitting at a table and getting drinks from the bar _really_
                 pisses off your server. Expect to get loogies in your soup
                 for this offence.
              Happy Tipping!
                \- thanks for the lecture. if i am sitting at a table and get
                a drink from the bar it is because the person is taking far
                too long to come around ... if you are going to flap your lips
                or flirt with someone at another table [either for personal
                reasons or for better tips] than you should expect to lose out
                elsewhere. i am pretty patient and dont think i have
                unreasonable expectations there. also i will tip the person
                at the bar and assume this is an establishment where tips are
                split. given the profit margins on a lot of alcohol and the
                small amount of work involved, i dont think the doubleing the
                tax as a baseline for a typical meal isnt too unreasonable.
                i am sympathetic to your point about lingering at a table,
                but i wouldnt be surprised if a lot of people's tips were
                affected by beaing kept waiting 20 minutes for a table when
                you had reservation and showed up on time ... yes maybe it
                isnt the server's fault, but never the less.
                question: if you do "table service" do you prefer tipping at
                the end or by rounds? --psb
                \_ Bar ettiquite seems to favor tipping by the round -- if
                   you don't you're likely to get ignored.
                   you don't you're likely to get ignored, unless you've
                   opened up a tab. -mice
2000/7/12-13 [Reference/Tax] UID:18646 Activity:high
7/11    Anybody know what's the property tax rate in British Columbia in
        Canada?  I know they have a high income and sales tax (it's a socialist
        country after all) but what about their property tax?  Thanks.
        \_ DAMN COMMIES!
        \_ Property tax is zero.  No one can afford any property after paying
           their other taxes.  It would be a loss for the BC local government
           to try to tax anything further just from printing the paperwork.
           The rock has been squeezed dry.
           \_ home ownership in canada is quite high actually.
        \_ How high are the income and sales tax there?
           \_ there's a GST (general sales tax) of about 14-15% across all
                        \_ that's goods and services tax
              canada.  And the provincial gov't tax more on top of that.
        \_ Be careful buying property you plan to keep unless you plan on
           becoming a citizen.  They have bizarre laws to keep non-citizens
           from inheriting property.
           \_ you assume I give a damn who inherits my property
2000/7/8-10 [Reference/Tax] UID:18620 Activity:kinda low
7/8     hello, does anyone here own a Bibler tent? Anyone know where to get
        one without paying sales tax? ok tnx, --psb
        \_ Tax fraud.
           \_ OH NO!
2000/6/28-29 [Reference/Tax, Transportation/PublicTransit] UID:18558 Activity:very high
6/28    Anybody opposed to extending the sales tax to fund Bart to San Jose?
        Sales tax is a very regressive tax.  The poor are paying for this
        BART extension.
        \_ Taxes are evil.  BART should be fully private.  The whole
           institution of public [transportation|housing|schools|utilities]
           is an evil remnant of the pro-communist New Deal.
                   \_ The New Deal, New Society, blah blah blah, the
                      luser COMMIES (I mean democrats) FDR, JFK, LBJ forced
                      on America are the worst thing that has ever happened
                      to this great nation. We would be 10 times the nation
                      we are today if not for the liberal communist junkies
                      holding us back.
                        \_ It's all the fault of the Illuminati.  Fortunately
                           the Majestic 12 have splintered off and are ready
                           to kick some ass.
                           \_ Majestic ... MAJESTIC!
                \_ It's not that taxes are evil, per se.  Some amount of tax
                   is necessary for services such as the police, fire, and
   cal from Fremont for 3 1/2 years (93-97) and in that
                      time the ticket price went from ~ 2.50 to ~ 5.50. They
                      more than doubled the ticket price, with the promise
                      of better service, but they never got around to fixing
                      the ticket machines, elevators or even increasing the
                      train frequency.

                   emergency medical folks.  The military can't be privately
                   funded either.  Sales tax for BART is ridiculous.  There
                   are cities such as Livermore that have been paying the BART
                   taxes for decades which have yet to receive their promised
                   BART station.  BART is corrupt.  I hate seeing public money
                   go to corrupt public institutions.  The water board is the
                   same.  And no, this is not a troll just because I disagree
                   with tom.  There's more to be said about BART but it makes
                                \_ then go find a machine at stanfurd to
                   me ill.  I'm going to stop now.  It's only the motd.
                   \_ Well said.  What is your name?
                        \_ Can't say.  I'd ruin my rep as an anonymous coward
                           and worthless troll.  :-)
                        \_ who said I disagree with you?  I'm the one saying
                           BART's a disaster below.  -tom
                           \_ tom, you are not allowed to agree with people
                              who talk sense.
                                         and Stanfurd?  -tom
                      got around to fixing the ticket machines, elevators or even
                           \_ We disagree about taxes in general.  Not BART.
                   \_ BART is exteremely corrupt. I rode BART every day to cal
                      from Fremont for 4 years (93-97) and in that time the
                      ticket price went from ~ 2.50 to ~ 5.50. This increase was
                      made under the promise of better service, but they never
                      got around to fixing the ticket machines, elevators or
                      increasing the train frequency. Near the end I started
                      driving to cal since it cost less.
                      The Light Rail in SJ is almost as bad. It is fairly
                      expensive per day and it doesn't stop anywhere remotely
                      useful. I only rode it with my ECO pass from Cisco to
                      get between the old bldgs (A-P) and the new ones (1-12)
                      while I was at Cisco.
                      \_ The assertion that SJ light rail "doesn't stop
                         anywhere remotely useful" depends on where it is you
                         want to go.  I found it particularly useful for going
                         from downtown to the airport.  Now that it goes all
                         the way up to downtown Mountain View, I'd say that it
                         goes to many more "useful" places.  I think the *real*
                         handicap of SJ light rail is that it travels at
                         *30 MILES AN HOUR* for much of its route (and there's
                         no signal preemption, so it stops at traffic signals).
                         It'd seem a lot easier to pry carheads out of their
                         cars if they could see rail moving faster than their
                         auto traffic.  For now, it's worse than the bus.
                           -- kahogan
                         \_ The day public transit is cheaper and faster than
                            driving and runs on my schedule, I'll think about
                            it.  In the meantime, keep pumping the oil.
                \_ get a life, troll.  -tom
                   \_ Stay out of my wallet you fucking liberal.
                        \_ Liberal means open minded.  I think you were looking
                           for the word 'leftist'.
                        \_ Stay away from public places and services, ASSHOLE!
                           \_ I learned to stay away from anything 'public'
                              when a private alternative exists (it's always
                              a better choice anyways).
                                \_ then go find a machine at stanford to
                                   troll on, weenie.  -tom
                                   \_ Does your little liberal mind understand
                                      the difference between something paid
                                      by coerced money (i.e. taxes) and
                                      something paid for, and maintained by
                                      \_ does your trolling ass understand
                                         the difference between UC Berkeley
                                         and Stanford?  -tom
                                        \_ note to nweaver: spelling it
                                           "stanfurd" isn't funny.  -tom
                                         \_ no, my ass doesn't understand
                                            anything except farting and pooping.
        \_ Anything that gets BART to san jose is a good thing.
           Even if "the poor" pay for most of it, they will be the ones
           to benefit from it, too.
                \_ The MTC did a study on south bay rail transit.  According
                   to the study, extending the existing light rail system to
                   Fremont would be *one-seventh* the cost of a BART extension
                   and would have *more* riders than the BART extension.
                   BART is a disaster.  -tom
                   \_ Tom, is this study online somewhere?  I'd love to see
                   \_ BART is a disaster?  Now look who is a troll?
                        \_ What would you call a system that costs 7 times
                           as much for fewer riders?   -tom
                           \_ I don't trust that study.  BART is immensely
                              useful in practice, though regretably too
                                \_ BART is useful to a small segment of people.
                                   It is just barely sufficient for many others.
                                   In general, BART is a corrupt waste for most
                                   everyone.  BART wasn't done right in the
                                   first place and politics have ruined what
                                   little was good.
        \_ It would be better to use some of the money they're cutting from
           vehicle license fees instead of sales taxes, but that will never
           fly politically, so we're stuck with the sales tax.
                \_ Gotta give those lexus owners their tax break. -nweaver
                   \_ I bet you ll change your tune when you get out of
                      school and get an actual job, instead of leeching off
                      your parents like you do now.
                           \_ He won't get a job if the Lexus owners don't
                              get a tax break. If the richest have money
                              to spend, the invest it in things that can
                              make them more money, which creates jobs that
                              employ people like nweaver. If you threaten
                              the wealthy, you threaten all of society.
                              \_ Voodoo economics, whee!  Go, Reagan!
                                \_ Ya, so?  It worked.
                        \_ I can tell you unequivocally that Nick is not
                           leaching, but instead being exploited.  He
                           gets "paid" for doing research, and doesn't cost
                           his parents any money by being in school.  However,
                           the "pay" is about 1/2 to 1/3 industry rate for
                           the same work, though it is sufficient for a
                           meagre living.   --PeterM
                           \_ It's a choice he's decided to make.  He'll get
                              out of school eventually and pay more in taxes
                              every year then he took in in total every 3+
                              years as a student.  We'll see how he feels about
                              it then.
                      \_ tis true. For, once on your own, you lose all sense
                         of civic responsibility. Shit, and a lexus is $$$,
                         doncha know!!!!
                        \_ Duh, poor people have cars too.  Don't be stupid.
                           Cutting the fees helps all car owners.  Where'd you
                           get the idea the poor don't own cars?  Get out of
                           your little ivory tower and go visit East Palo Alto,
                           Oakland, Richmond, etc.  Cars are everywhere and
                           plenty of nice ones.
                                \_ Truly poor people own older, less valuable
                                   cars that have a much lower VLF than a new
                                   car.  The current proposal to implement the
                     \_ Actually, most of the SUV drivers are women. I'm
                          not sure that they want to get a penile implant.
                                   VLF cut by taking half off the bill and then
                                   refunding the other half is nothing but pure
                                   political stupidity.
                                   \_ Let's punish people for having greater
                                      success in life than others.
                                      \_ Let's say we were to implement this
                          that kind of a position in life.

                                         for grades instead of cars:
                                         Anyone one or more SD's above the Mean
                                         ought to be punished for greater
                                         Is that equitable? No one would agree
                                         with this, but when it comes to income
                                         re-adjustment, liberals are all for it.
                                         \_ "Incomng readjustment" is also known
                                            as tax the successful to feed the
                                            lazy, stupid, and inept.
           \_ I'd vote for a special car registration tax for gas guzzlers.
              Say increase the registration fee for SUVs and Minivans or
              anything that gets under 20 miles a gallon.  And for those
              people that drive monsters like Suburbans that get 8 miles a
              gallon, we'll hit them even harder.
                \_ Let's punish people for driving a vehicle I don't like.
                   \_ Let's punish people just because it's fun!
              \_ Actually, this sounds more like "let's punish people for
                 driving a vehicle that I can't afford". Get over your
                 jealousy. Some people are successful others aren't. Stop
                 whining and figure out how to make it into the top 1% of
                 wage earners so that you don't have to worry about stupid
                 shit like what the BART costs in taxes. I paid AMT this
                 year in excess of Bill Clinton's salary. It hurt and I
                 think that it was unfair, but I made enough money that
                 I can just say screw it and get on with my life.
                 \_ typical small penis male driving a big SUV assuming that
                    everybody else makes less money than you.  Punishing
                    SUV owners has nothing to do with money and everything
                    to do with the environment.  I suggest that you spend your
                    money getting a penile implant rather than buying a big
                       \_ Actually, most of the SUV drivers are women. They
                          like SUV's because they are "safer" for themselves
                          and thier kids. And I'm not sure that these women
                          want to get a penile implant.
                          \_ Obviously, they need a BRAIN implant, because
                             they aren't safer for them, and they're a
                             hazard to OTHER people, too.
                          I don't drive a SUV, but I do drive a larger luxury
                          car (that I bought used so it cost less than a
                          camry) whose MPG (~ 15) puts it into your punishment
                          category. It is unfair to punish those of us who
                          chose to live life well and have the resources to
                          do so, just because you are incapable of reaching
                          that kind of a position in life. And like I've said
                          before, if my car contributes to global warming,
                          so much the better. We could do with warmer weather
                          and more beaches.
                          I just don't get the Liberal attachment to the
                          "environment". People are part of nature too.
                          Technology is created by people and thus it is
                          part of nature to. Stop getting in the way of
                          mankind's destiny. And while you're at it stop
                          preventing the access of ordinary people driving
                          cars and mountain bikes to the national parks.
                          \_ My wife wants an SUV. she does NOT want it
                             because it's "safer for the kids". She wants
                             it because it puts her above everyone else.
                             \_ Because so many other idiots bought oversized
                                vehicles.  Get them all off the road and then
                                no one will need one.
                    \_ Your sense of scale is sadly lacking my brainwashed
                       friend.  Even the wishes of a penis-waving male have
                       higher precedence than 'native rocks' and wild beasts.
                       Man is, and should be, the master of his environment.
                       Our days of worshipping nature are thankfully over.
                       \_ Hi, Ilya.
                          \_ Hi!
                                \_ ssssssssstarsssssssssss
                 \_ I stand corrected.  I was groping around for "can't afford"
                    but missed.  Well put.
                    \_ Grope harder.
                       \_ My AMT tax $'s are probably being used in this
                          manner by Bill Clinton.
                       \_ I groped sufficiently, thank you.
        \_ Is a person earning $60 an hour actually contributes 5 times
           what I am contributing to the society with my $12 an hour job?
           My job would have been worth much more if they hadn't let all
           these cheap foreign labor, and cheap foreign software coolies
           into the country!  Why don't they let in some foreign lawyers
           and doctors too!  Why do they allow foreigners to study
           computer science and not let them enter medical school !
           Does some arsehole lawyer earing $100 an hour contribute
           more to society than a dedicated elementary school teacher,
           or a pastor, or a research scientist?!  The market for labor
           is neither free nor fair!  Why do you assume it is so?!
           \_ When I drive on the bay bridge, stuck behind
              the toll plaza, and I look in the next lane and
              see a giant 11 miles to gallon tanker monstrosity
              SUV, WITH ONLY ONE PASSENGER, I want to kill you all
              and join Jason Meggs in his glorious revolution.
              On BART yesterday I saw someone reading "The Complete
              Ayn Rand", hopefully she drove to the BART parking log
              in something large and obnoxious.
           \_ In terms of his/her ability to give back to society, Yes.
              \_ That's why you get huge tax breaks when you donate to
                 charities, but pay lots of taxes when you just wanna
                 spend it all on luxury goods.
              In terms of his/her ability to pay taxes, Yes.
           \_ Yes, what about your dedicated firemen, policemen, and
              members of the USAF!  Their pay are relatively low too!
           \_ Yes, like those filthy rich CEOs just buying up the
              congressmen to allow in more foreign workers, so that
              instead of earning 1 billion, they can now earn 2
              billions while American workers suffer!
                \_Yeah!  Just like that Survivor show!  I can't believe
                  they haven't kicked Richard off yet.
                  \_ i'd just like to say that this thread sucks ass.
                     hahaha, i had thae last word!
                     \_ No, I have the last word! -your hot gay pal Richard
                        \_ Actually.  No.  You don't.  -anonymous troll coward
2000/5/28-29 [Reference/Tax] UID:18359 Activity:kinda low 83%like:18353
5/26    I mailed in my tax return about two weeks prior to april 15th.  Along
        with a check for the tax that I owe.  IRS still hasn't cashed in
        that check.  Is this a sign that I'm goign to get audited?  I don't
        want to call them about this because they might flag me down for an
        audit.  Or should I wait longer?
        \_ Sac usually cashes checks within a week.  Cal makes a small
           fortune delaying paying you anything, while taking your money
           as quickly as possible.  Yes, you have a problem.
        \_ you and tens of millions of other people
        \_ Visiting Fresno will also get you audited.
        \_ They haven't cashed any of mine yet, so don't freak.
        \_ Give me your name, i'll call them up to check for you
        \_ Never paid taxes before, huh?
        \_ Lucky.  They instacashed my check for $7k.  Ugh.
           \_ That's a bad sign.  You're one step from an audit.
              \_ Well, it worked out.  Was first year earning a lot, yadda
                 yadda, didn't have to pay penalty.  And, of course, paying
                 it at the end rather than having it withheld is winning (sort
                 of) since you got to use the money during the year.  (Still
                \_ Good way to bounce a check to the IRS and get audited.
                 hurts though)
        \_ They obviously lost your check. Send another and tell your
           bank to cancel the first one.
                \_ Audit.
        \_ I have first-hand information that the IRS is planning to secede
           from the union. Guess where they're getting the funding?
                \_ They're going to IPO?  How do I get in on it?
2000/5/27-28 [Reference/Tax] UID:18353 Activity:high 83%like:18359
5/26    I mailed in my tax return about two weeks prior to april 15th.  Along
        \_ you and tens of millions of other people
        with a check for the tax that I owe.  IRS still hasn't cashed in
        that check.  Is this a sign that I'm goign to get audited?  I don't
        want to call them about this because they might flag me down for an
        audit.  Or should I wait longer?
        \_ Visiting Fresno will also get you audited.
        \_ They haven't cashed any of mine yet, so don't freak.
        \_ Give me your name, i'll call them up to check for you
        \_ Never paid taxes before, huh?
        \_ Lucky.  They instacashed my check for $7k.  Ugh.
           \_ That's a bad sign.  You're one step from an audit.
              \_ Well, it worked out.  Was first year earning a lot, yadda
                 yadda, didn't have to pay penalty.  And, of course, paying
                 it at the end rather than having it withheld is winning (sort
                 of) since you got to use the money during the year.  (Still
                 hurts though)
        \_ They obviously lost your check. Send another and tell your
           bank to cancel the first one.
        \_ I have first-hand information that the IRS is planning to secede
           from the union. Guess where they're getting the funding?
                \_ They're going to IPO?  How do I get in on it?
2000/4/15-16 [Reference/Tax] UID:18019 Activity:low
4/15    Stop asking tax questions on the motd.  If you have enough money to
        own stock, you have enough money to hire a CPA.
        \_ not after this exciting week of trading.
2000/4/15 [Reference/Tax] UID:18014 Activity:high 75%like:18013
4/14    Okay, here is another wierd tax question. If I give someone stock I
        purchase at, say $2, can I get around paying taxes on it that way?
        I know they will have to pay taxes on the gains, but is this an easy
        way to get around having to pay sort term capital gains tax? The
        current value of the stock is $100.
        \_ you will still be taxed if you give stock as a gift
                \_ Gift tax only applies after $10k/year per person.
        \_ Additionally, you will be taxed extra if you give gifts worth
           more than $10k/year.
        \_ you should just stop being such a ho and pay your taxes.
        \_ How about if we re-phrase thusly:
           I bought shares of a stock in 1999.  The stock pays no dividends.
           The stock increased in value.  The total value of the shares is
           under $10,000.  I gifted all the shares that year to a friend.
           I know I can't deduct any of the gift, and I know there is no
           gift tax for this amount.  Do I have to pay short-term capital
           gains, anyway?  I did not own any of this stock at the end
           of 1999.
           \_ Thanks for clarifying for me, whoever you are.
2000/4/15 [Reference/Tax] UID:18013 Activity:nil 75%like:18014
4/14    Okay, here is a hard tax question. If I give someone stock I purchased
        at, say $2, can I get around paying taxes on it that way. I know
        they will have to pay taxes on the gains, but is this an easy way
        to get around having to pay capital gains tax?
2000/4/14-15 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:18011 Activity:nil
4/14    When I purchase company stocks with 15% discount through Employee
        Stock Purchase Plan, is the 15% difference considered capital gain
        subject to short/long term capital gain tax when I sell the stocks?
        \_ of course it is. Your capital gain is the price you sold minus
           the price you paid.
           \_ I thought the 15% is considered regular income?  No?
        \_ I read in the San Jose Mercury News that Congress is trying to pass
           a law to try to tax that 15% percent.  This was 6 months ago.
        \_ The laws are complicated for this stuff.  There is some effort in
           Congress to simplify the law (read: tax you more), but this is the
           basic idea:
           1) If you sell the stock too quickly, it is a disqualifying
           disposition, and you have to pay taxes as ordinary income.  (For me,
           that's within two years of the grant date of the stocks, and I assume
           it's two years for you, but don't know.)
           2) After that, it gets more complicated.  Our literature says: "you
           will recognize as ordinary income an amount equal to the lesser of:
           a)  The excess of the amount you realize upon the sale of the stock
           (Sale Price) over the price (Purchase Price) you paid for the stock;
           or b)  15% of the Grant Date Value."  Yeah, it's complicated.  Your
           company should be able to give you specifics.  -emarkp
          \_ I sold a bunch of ESPP stocks last year for a down payment of
             a new car. I'm going to be paying bazillions in taxes this year
             due to the fact that (yes, Virginia) capital gain is calculated
             according to your purchase price (i.e. incl the 15% discount) and
             your sale price. If you buy ESPP stocks every month (assuming you
             do) through automatic deduction, you need to keep track of how
             much you buy and when. Luckily, your latest ESPP statement should
             have all that. If you use TurboTax, it will ask you to enter
             EVERY single one of purchase transaction. Just punch in the
            numbers and it'll calculate it for you. OH, and one more thing,
             in addition to the 20% cap gain tax (if you didn't sell until
             after a year of purchase) you will get hit by CA state tax since
             proceed of your sale is treated as ordinary income. Sucks huh??
2000/4/14 [Reference/Tax] UID:18006 Activity:moderate
4/14    I'm getting income tax spam from julie.csua.  Whatup?
        \_ Everyone got it.  Deal.
                \_ Squish.
                        \_ Squish who?  You, the complete moron who doesn't
                           realize there is no computer named julie.csua and
                           that the address was forged?
                           \_ Squish.
2000/4/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:17971 Activity:moderate
4/11    Does California tax long-term at a lower rate than short-term capital
        gains with like the federal does?  I just filled out Form 540
        but it taxed all my capital gains as ordinary income.  Thanks.
        \_ Yeah, unfortunately that is the case when I did my taxes with
           TurboTax. :( Owed a LOT of money in Federal for cashing out an
           ESPP stock, got hit by FTB again as ordinary income. :(
        \_ You did your taxes wrong then. Long-term (stock held for more
           than one year) gains are taxed at 20%. Short-term gains are taxed
           at your income rate (probably 31 or 36%).
                \_ Max CA state income tax rate is ~9%.  You're confusing
                   state & feds.
           \_ That's what the federal tax return does, but I can't find where
              the California tax return separates long-term gains from
              short-term gains and ordinary income.
2000/4/7-8 [Reference/Tax] UID:17957 Activity:very high
4/7     I paid $18,650 in interest last year on my parent's mortgage for
        their home.  My name is not on the title of the house or the
        mortgage.  Is there any way I can deduct the mortgage payments
        off my large software engineering tax return, or are my parents
        the only ones who can deduct this?  Yes, I am too lazy to see
        a tax advisor.  Thanks.
        \_ see a tax accountant.  Spending couple hours could save you
           thousands of dollars.
           \_ eh, nevermind, I guess.  I called the IRS help line (no
              hold time, can you imagine that) and they said I suck
              (I can't deduct).  I don't believe making my parents
              dependents helps either.
              \_ so how much of that can you write off as "Gift"?
              \_ No hold time calling IRS?  Unbelievable!
                 \_ My parents are not a charitable organization.
                    With respect to my parents, I can give each up to $10K in
                    gifts that counts as tax-free income for them, and for
                    which I do not have to pay an extra "gift tax".  I cannot
                    deduct any of this 10K, because they are not a
                    charitable organization.
                    \_ If I'm married and both my parents are alive, does it
                       mean I and my wife together can give $40K a year total
                       to my parents without paying gift tax?
                          Or go to, Forms and Pubs, Search, "gift"
                          The web site is really fast these days.
2000/4/3 [Reference/Tax] UID:17912 Activity:high
4/3     Non student tax poll:
        Federal, refund > $4,000        1
        Federal, refund > $1000
        Federal, refund (200, 1000)
        Federal, (-200, 200)
        Federal, owe (-200, -1000)
           \_ fed, ~ -400, state, -200...fucking taxes...
        Federal, owe > $1000
           \_ fed $2800, state $1300
           \_ Total tax bill federal 1999 > 150K, I can't believe that you
              have to pay a tax on the different between the fair market
              value of your options and your option price. The capital
              gains/AMT is really limiting my income potential. It needs
              to be repealed. How do we go about doing this, kill Bill?
                \_ Stop voting for leftists.
              \_ NQ options and ISO options are treated differently with
                 regards to taxes.  Do most of you with options have NQ
              \_ (Assuming this is not a troll...) Why?  The difference between
                 the FMV and the option price *is* income.  The company eats it
                 by giving you the option to buy at that price.  How is this any
                 different than handing you a check for the same amount?
2000/3/2-3 [Reference/Tax] UID:17679 Activity:high
3/2     I know better than to ask for tax assistance in the motd, but
        I'm a glutton for punishment.  So anyways, like, what is the
        formula btwn the number of allowances I can claim and how much is
        actually withheld (when filling out your W-4)?  How can I determine
        how many allowances I must have in order to have 0 state and fed
        income tax withheld? --sky
        \_ This is one case in which you should NOT CONSULT THE IRS.
           The worksheet that comes w/ the form is WRONG.
           So unless you want to pay $6K at year end, do not use it.
           In normal case,
           if you are single, claim one. If homeowner or married, more
           than that but not on both of your forms.
           Of course, you can get away with claiming 10 like I did one yr
           but chronically owing a large amount of taxes at every year
           end will get you a fat IRS
           "penalty". You can have near $0 withheld if you claim enuf.
           NOTE: some types of income they *must* withheld.
        \_ There should be a worksheet that comes with your W-4 that help
           you calculate the number of allowances you should put down.
        \_ Consult HR, CPA or IRS.
        \_ You can't have nothing withheld.  The IRS will charge you huge
           fines and/or throw your ass in jail for tax evasion.
           \_ I end up geting way over taxed each year because the rate
              i am taxed at assumes I work 12 months at that rate.  But
              I always end up taking 3 or 4 months off a year.  And I am
              too lazy to do my taxes, so the gubbament just keeps my
              cheese.  I would much rather put my money in short term
              treasury bonds and actually get paid interest on the money
              I am loaning to the government rather than piss it away
              in he wind.  -sky
                \_ Btw, sky did you know your interest is taxed also?
                \_ Just think of it as a down payment for the meth rehab
                   and prison housing bills the governement is going to be
                   paying on your behalf in the future.
                   \_  Really?  The government is gonna foot the bill?
                       I've had it all wrong.  These government guys
                       sound prety swell --sky
                        \_ Not exactly.  They're going to whore your pretty boy
                           ass out to the rougher inmates to keep them inline.
                           It's a lot cheaper than buying the other inmates
                           more rec rooms and TV's or hiring more guards.
                \_ It's actually illegal to not file a return, regardless
                   of whether or not you owe additional taxes or have a
                   refund coming.
                        \_ Unless you have no withholding, and less income
                           than the standard deduction/exemptions.
                           \_ Remember the part about knowing better
                              than to take motd tax advice?  Consult
                              your tax advisor or the IRS for reliable
                              information on who must file.  The above
                              is not quite correct.
2000/3/1-2 [Reference/Tax] UID:17668 Activity:high
3/1     If I over-contribute to my 401K account (exceeding the $10500 limit),
        what happens at year-end?  Thanks.
        \_ The IRS comes and shoots you.
           \_ They have to figure it out first.  Not doing so well recently.
        \_ they force you to withdraw your entire account, pay taxes on it.
           just kidding, most likely your accounts payable keeps track of it.
           \_ He didn't ask, "can I", he asked "what happens if I"
2000/2/13 [Reference/Tax] UID:17498 Activity:nil
2/11    Any advice on tax advisors?  How much do they charge?  Any
        \_ Doug Axelrod.  In the City.  I think he charges
           around $80/hr.
2000/1/25 [Reference/Tax] UID:17317 Activity:low
1/24    Financial reminder: Don't forget to contribute to 401ks, IRAs, etc.
        \_ Too late for 401k's, months left for IRA's.
          \_ Too late for fiscal year 1999 for taxes, you mean.
        \_ Personal-wellness reminder:  Don't forget to brush your teeth!
                                        \_ And don't forget to wipe your ass!
        \_ If you don't qualify for Traditional IRA, Roth is great.
           You get to grow your money tax free, and have no penalty and
           pay taxes on the money you contribute.  If you contribute
           $2000 and the value increases to $2500, you can withdraw
           $2000 tax and penalty free.  Special rules apply to withdrawing
           the earnings part ($500).
        \_ Health & safety reminder:  Look both ways before crossing, etc.
2000/1/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Reference/Tax] UID:17213 Activity:kinda low
1/10    You can't hide Hillary's crimes.  As soon as she's out of the WH and
        doesn't have my tax dollars to illegally spend on herself it'll all
        come out and then we'll finally get the truth.
        \_ Clinton will have her killed off like the hundreds of others he has.
2000/1/6-7 [Reference/Tax] UID:17172 Activity:high
1/5 ROCKS!!! Cheaper than Amazon and free shipping!!!
        \_ still offers the best overall shopping experience, but
  offers signficantly lower prices. They
           require you to turn on cookies, and they do not offer
           nearly as many nifty services or ease-of-use or technical
           expertise, but they have a flat shipping fee (2nd day UPS $4.95)
           (at least in the it phree now?)
           (at least in the it free now?)
           Most books (for example, O'Reilly) cost an average $9.00
           less than even AMZN. In fact, it is usually 40% off suggested
           retail. And still no sales tax for us Californians.
           They also sent me a nice gift and coupon for New Years.
           Their packing materials arent as environmentally-conscious
           as AMZN, but they arent suing over silly stuff like "One-Click".
        \_ One click is not silly.  And you're supposed to be paying the
           taxes.  Are you one of those people who thinks everything is legal
           as long as you don't get caught?
           \_ Online companies follow the same rules as mail order vendors:
              A customer does not have to pay tax if the company does not
              have a physical presence in the state the order is shipped to.
        \_ is it just me, or it seems like Amazon is getting more and more
           \_ hey, they claim the book division will be profitable this year
1999/12/29-2000/1/1 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:17120 Activity:moderate
12/29   Does anyone remember the name of the city (located in Northern
        California) where they use their own printed money? And the name
        of their currency? I think it is called something like EcoDollar
        or EcoMoney or something like that.
        \_ Don't the Feds get really angry when people do that?
           \_ Depends on how they do it.  A system of IOU's and promisary
              notes isn't illegal.
              \_ you have to pay taxes on them though right?
                \_ No idea.  I'm guessing no.
                 \_ umm, I tihnk the government would crush them then
                   \_ Depends.  If it's just IOU's there's no income.  This is
                      all assuming the original post wasn't a troll anyway.
                     \_ then why don't all corperations use legally binding
                        IOUs intead of currency?   I bet it is taxable.
                        \_ If it's just IOU's what's the point?  Everyone
                           just runs up massive debts until the whole town
                           is bankrupt?  At some point the IOU's have to be
                           paid off, either with cash or in exchange for
                           something else, both of which are taxable.  The
                           IRS will go after people who use non-cash barter
                           to try and avoid taxes.
                           \_ In exchange for other IOU's, items, or services.
                              Yes, there was an economy before the IRS and
                              before cash.
1999/11/19-22 [Reference/Tax] UID:16923 Activity:nil
11/18   What's the max. 401(k) contribution limit for tax years 1999 and
        2000?  Thx.
        \_ Unless something's changed, it's $10k
           \_ That's what I heard too, but on page 3 of
     it says the limit
              is $6k.  What gives?
              \_ Are you working for a small business that only offers a
                 Simple 401k?
                 \_ Yeah, about 20 employees, and the employer doesn't match
                    my contribution.
                   \_ if the employer doesn't match, according to that 560 pub
                      it's not a SIMPLE 401k.  it's probably a normal one
                      and 10k limit. -oj
                      \_ I see.  Thanks.
                \_ Be careful. That word does not mean what you think it means.
                   (Where the IRS is concerned nothing is simple, and a Simple
                    401k is more complicated than simply a standard 401k.)
           \_ What if I'm married and filing tax jointly with my working
        \_ Ask HR or a CPA - much more reliable than the motd.
        \_ For 1999 it was $10,000, for 2000 it has been increased to $10,500
                --someone who has one and contributes the maximum
1999/11/6-7 [Reference/Tax] UID:16837 Activity:nil
11/05   Welkome to AmeriKKKa!  Microsoft and the next President of the United
        States illegally battered with tax payer's money by the Department
        of Injustive in Orwellian conspiracy to destroy this country's
        economy!  Thomas Penfield Jackson: a traitor to all real Americans.
        \_ what they hell are you complaining about.  if anything, this is
           great for northern California's economy since Microsoft has
           shafted almost every company in the Silicon valley.
        \_ must've taken you all night to write such eloquent prose.
                \_ I'm like poetry in motion, baby!  I went to Berkeley.  I
                   can crank out crap like that in my sleep!  And hey, check
                   it out.  Already got a fish on the line.
1999/9/22-24 [Reference/Tax] UID:16565 Activity:nil
9/21    I started selling "widget" (will not say what it is) on EBay for
        the last couple of months on the side and have made a lot of
        money. Is that considered income, and is that technically
        taxable?                        -EBay guy with 250+ rating
        \_ let's rephrase this: "I'm making money selling stuff,
           is that considered making money? and is this subject to
           is this considered making money? Is it subject to
           the tax on making money?"
        \_ Generally, if it were important enough to the IRS, they'd
           let you know. So go ahead and sell, if you're doing something
           wrong, they'll let you know.
           \_ That could prove to be a very expensive lesson in US Tax Code.
        \_ Hey, I'm making money selling yer mom's special 'services'
           and am reporting and paying tax on it.
        \_ If you have to ask, you should hire a tax professional.
           probably be charging sales tax too.
1999/9/9-13 [Reference/Tax] UID:16492 Activity:high
9/9     I am curious to hear people's experiences with having landed
        lots  of stock options.  Any good advice in terms of how to make
        sure Uncle Sam gets as little of it as possible when you start vesting?
        \_ Don't exercise them.
        \_ buy-and-hold.
        \_ More specifically, you need to hold it long enough to not be counted
           as a short term gain.  Of course if it drops like a rock during that
           period of time, you'll get zero profit anyway....
        \_ A year before you want to exercise, don't do anything to incur
           capital gains during Q1.  The year you exercise, do it in Q1
           (January, February, March).  Exercise and hold.  At this point
           you owe AMT on what you just made on paper, and are supposed to
           make an estimated quarterly tax payment, but the estimate is
           based on your previous year's tax activity (this is why you don't
           want to have any capital gains in Q1 the year before), so you owe
           nothing on the quarter (though you will have to pay it on April
           15th of the following year, just like always).  By the time April
           15th rolls around, you've held those shares for 12 months, and if
           you sell them it's taxed as long term capital gains at 20% instead
           of short term at your normal tax rate.  You can then safely sell
           what you need to pay your AMT.  Any further sales are just taxed
           as long term capital gains at 20%, so no further gimmicks are
        \_ visit an accountant, it can be worse than this depending on your
           withholding vs how much you owe, and plenty other things -oj
        \_ carmel valley. less traffic, less crowds, just as good wine.
              \_ yes there is. read today's Chronicle. BAAS (Bay Area
           \_ money grubbing?  how about the idea that they have earned half
              since they supported you and your career while letting their own
              career idle away?  a selfish little prick like you deserves to
              lose more than half; unfortunately, the law doesn't punish people
              for stupidity and selfishness.  with a fucked up attitude like
              that its no wonder you divorced or will be.  -your mom
              that its no wonder you're divorced or will be.  -your mom
                 Adult Sites) is an organization to help local porn pushers.
        \_ And, of course, there's things you may want to do to keep  a
           money-grubbing (ex-)spouse from going after them too.  HALF!!!!
              \_ Supported??!  The @#%$# freeloading bitch just stays home
                 all day and watches Jerry and Oprah all day, interspersed
                    \_ I agree with you. Sitting at home all day and watching
                       soaps and occasionally cooking and cleaning does not
                       count as earning half my options.
                        \_ Really?  Do your own cooking, cleaning, and cock
                           sucking.  What would it cost to pay someone else
                           to do it for you?
                           \_ a lot less than to have bitches like you at
                              home sucking up the money.
                              You choose to not work, you choose to
                              not have money of your own when we're through.
                 with occasional trysts with the pool cleaner and the gardener.
                 She didn't do anything for my options and certainly wasn't
                 around before most of them vested anyway.  -- spiteful ex
        \_ carmel valley. less traffic, less crowds, just as good wine.
                \- go to AAA and get their wine maps. those have hours and
                and whether tastings are free. if you are not a snob,go
                to VI Sattui ... you can taste like 6 or 7 wines with a
                lot of sugar for free. --psb
                 \_ I think I'll leave my high-tech job with its troublesome
                    options for an exciting career in pool cleaning or garden
        \_ I also suggest Sonoma.  To get there from Berk, go to the
        Richmond Bridge.  Take 101 North, exit Hwy 37 from the freeway, take a
        left at the second traffic light to 121 and then take Hwy 12. This leads
        you directly to the Plaza.  The Visitor's Bureau is right on the square
        and they have winery info.  Try Sebastiani - free tour and tasting on
        the half hour, but everything closes by 5.
1999/8/25 [Reference/Tax] UID:16396 Activity:very high
8/25    Tax gurus, got a question. If I provide my expertise that is worth
        $10,000 to a friend, and my friend provides me expertise that
        is also worth $10,000 (for example, I teach her computer, and she
        teaches me how to play the piano), is that technically taxable?
        Can I just waive it somehow? How can I get into trouble if I do
        not report it? Thanks.
        \_ no bills, thus no income.  And in any event, you're allowed to
        give someone $10,000 in cash per year without them or you having
        to pay a gift tax.  -jor
        \_ you have provided services to each other.   technically it is
           taxable.  you can get in trouble since we're going to report you!
           \_ TECHNICALLY, you can give each other special discount and
              reduce the service to $1 and INS will not go after you.
                \_ Thinking of pimping yermom? She ain't worth that much,
                   and my cocaine is worth more than 10K, thank you.
              \_ I think this is considered fraudulent, and the IRS may
                 go after you.  INS probably will not.
                \_ IRS, INS, U.S. Government, what's the difference. They
                   are all slow, incompetent, and they all want to fuck
                   with you.
        \_ You received no income.  What goes on between you and a friend is
           taxable.  Did you actually bill each other $10k each?  That'd be
           silly.  I fix my parent's computers.  My mom makes me dinner and
           sometimes buys lunch.  I don't declare that and you don't have to
           either.  If anything, you'll get red flagged and audited just so
           they can figure out wtf you think you're doing.
        \_ Charge each other $9999.99 since any gift under $10K doesn't need
           to be reported.
1999/8/3 [Reference/Tax] UID:16230 Activity:high
8/3     Where is Amazon located? If I buy a book through Amazon and the
        central "hub" is in California, will there be a CA sales tax,
        or will it be excluded like all other mail orders?
        \_ Amazon ships from Nevada.  Doesn't matter though.  Sales tax is
           required to be charged on all mail orders from companies with a
           location in California, no matter where they ship from.
           \_ Amazon doesn't charge CA residents sales tax.
                \_ They're supposed to.
                        \_ Why?  They're not in CA.
                           \_ If they have an office, warehouse or any other
                              'business facilities' in CA, then they are in
                              California and are sposed to do the tax thing.
                                \_ But Amazon doesn't have ANY of those in
                                   CA, unless we've annexed Nevada or Seattle
                                   \_ I thought they had a warehouse.  Guess
           \_ Really?  I thought the hub is in Seattle.  I have some software
              engineer friends working for Amazon in Seattle, and they quite
              often have to help packaging shipments when there are too many
              incoming orders.  -- yuen
                \_ Seattle is corporate hq.  They have distrubution centers
                   around the country, including Nevada, Kentucky, Kansas,
                   Washington, & Delaware:
1999/7/31-8/1 [Reference/Tax] UID:16216 Activity:moderate
7/30    Industry sucks and I am going back to academia. What happens to my
        401K? Can I keep it? I can't roll over because I am no longer
        employeed. Thanks.
        \_ No. You must mail it all to me! Of course you can keep it! You
           need to roll it over into another tax-deferred account like
           an IRA, which is really what you should do every time you
           switch jobs because it gives you much more flexibility than
           any 401(k) can hope for. --dim
        \_ Unless your an undergrad, you'll be an employee in academia,
           either a T.A. or Research Assistant.  If you come to UCB you'll
           have a 401(a) retirement plan that they automatically put money
           into instead of paying Social Security taxes.
                \_ I see, so I can roll over ALL of my 401K, that is good.
                   Does the money stay in the same fund, or the school that
                   I am going to is going to convert it to their own fund?
                        \_ If you roll it over to anything else, it will
                           go into whatever funds are available there.
        \_ Don't do it!  Academia can work you just as hard or harder and
           always pays less!
1999/6/16 [Reference/Tax] UID:15972 Activity:high
6/16    Al Gore talking family values?  Isn't that the job of Republicans?
        \_ traditionally, yes. When Republicans talk about family values,
           they usually mean: you must be religious, you must marry
           our own people (white people), we must stop immigrants, and
           more taxes to make this nation better.
           \_ *More* taxes to make this nation better?
           \_ no, no, no, go ahead and bag on the Repubs if it makes you feel
              better but at least get it right.  demos are way more tax n
              spend than thre repubs are.  Not that the repubs havent raised
              taxes here n there but raising taxes is always the demo answer
              to "where is the x many $billions$ going to come from for this
              new 'entitlement' we're creating?"
1999/3/20 [Academia/Berkeley/Classes, Reference/Tax] UID:15622 Activity:nil
3/19    how much you think REI buys the goretex pants for
        b4 sellingit to dumbasses like me for $150 + $12 tax? - tpc

   __  _.-"` `'-.
  /||\'._ __{}_(    MudCop says, "Cheating is bad for you! Just say NO!"
  ||||  #'--.__\
  |  L.(   ^_\^
  \ .-' |   _ |
  | |   )\___/
  |  \-'`:._]
  \__/;      '-.
  |   |o     __ \
  |   |o     )( |
  |   |o     \/ \
1999/3/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:15597 Activity:high
3/16    Why don't you have to pay tax when you buy things from out of state?
        And why does Seattle Filmworks charge tax?
        \_ You're suppose to pay taxes, just lots of places don't charge
                \_ Out of state businesses can't collect CA sales tax,
                   but you're legally required to pay a "use tax" to CA
                   on out of state purchases.
        \_ The US Constitution has a section prohibiting states from
           interfering with commerce.  This section is interpreted to
           mean that states can't assess taxes on transactions in
           other states.  This is why if you mail-order something from
           Rhode Island and you live in California you pay no state
           sales tax.  However, if you mail-order something from
           California you pay sales tax.  Seattle Filmworks might
           have a California branch or office so you might still have
           to pay California sales tax but you won't pay Washington
           sales tax.  I think that is how it works, but I'm not a tax
           lawyer.  Any tax lawyers on soda who can comment?  -emin
           \_ I'm not a lawyer but I don't get taxed in Washington state
              when I show the store clerk my Oregon driver's license (doesn't
              work for restaurants though).  But California doesn't seem
              to care about charging sales tax to out-of-staters. --jeff
        \_ The more important question here is why you'd want to buy
           anything from Seattle Film Works in the first place . . .
        \_ The pics-on-the-web feature is nice.  And I've had no problems
           with quality.  -tom
        \_ The resolution on that is terrible, and I've had a lot of trouble
           with scratches on the negatives with them.  Just not worth the
           premium for that.  -jor
                \_ the resolution is fine if all you're doing is putting
                   them on the web.  -tom
           \_ But you can pretend that you're using 3L33T3 YUPP13 SUP3R F1LM!1!
1998/11/5-8 [Reference/Tax] UID:14916 Activity:nil
11/5    Looking for a good tax planner/financial adviser in either
        Berkeley or the Peninsula.  Any suggestions?  Thanks!
1998/9/1-3 [Recreation/Activities, Reference/Tax, Recreation/Shopping] UID:14532 Activity:low
8/31    Hiking shoes for sale.  Nike ACG. Size 9 1/2.  Worn only
        once.  Too big on me.  Bought for $80+tax.  Would like to sell
        for about $60.  If interested, email asb.
        \_ Why didn't you try them on first? Why not return them now? --dim
                \_ It was the night before I was leaving on a big trip
                        overseas.  I didn't want to buy extremely expensive
                        hiking shoes, and the cheaper ones that I wanted,
                        they didn't have in my size, about 8 or 9.  I tried
                        the 9 1/2 on and it seemed to fit.  Then I went
                        hiking in it and my foot was sliding around a bit
                        too much.  Had I had more time, I might have checked
                        out another store, but it was already evening, about
                        the time that stores of this type close.  I can't
                        return them because it's been over 2 months
                        and because I've used them outdoors.
        \_ Who said anything about the IBM BIOS?
        \_ Boycott Nike shoes!!!!!!
1998/8/17-18 [Reference/Tax] UID:14468 Activity:very high
8/16    When I go to these job infosessions I keep hearing 401k plan.
        What the hell is that?
        \_ Retirement funds.
          \_ its a sneaky way you can set aside some of your money for
            retirement, before the IRS can get their greedy hands on it.
            they tax it later, but havig it put away pre-tax makes it a
            much better deal.   some companies match some 401k contributions
                \_ Not sneaky at all.  It's been tax code for nearly 20 yrs.
                You're deferring a percent of your salary into a retirement
                account sponsored by your employer and not being taxed on
                it until you withdraw.
            \_ Plus when they tax it after you retire, they'll apply a lower
               tax rate to your total contributions over the years plus any
               profit generated from investments with your contributions.
               \_ Not exactly. They'll apply whatever tax rate your income
                  would stipulate. If you become fabulously wealthy
                  between now and then, you could actually pay more taxes
                  at the time you withdraw it. --dim
          \_ What happens to my 401K account balance when I switch jobs?
                \_You can cash it out, in which case you lose a huge
                  chunk (~40%) of it due to taxes, or you can roll it
                  directly over to your IRA or new 401k, in which case
                  you wouldn't lose anything.  Or, depending on old company
                  policy, you can keep your 401k at that company, or the
                  company may cash it out for you automatically if you
                  don't roll it over by a certain time after you quit.
                        \_ If you roll it over into your IRA, does it
                           count toward your $2K/yr max contribution?
                           \_ No, it doesn't. That money has already been
                              tax deferred. The $2000/year limit is how
                              much taxable income you can squirrel away.
                              401k money isn't taxable income. --dim
                  \_ can you roll it into a Roth IRA, and get the money to
                     escape the tax man altogether?
                        \_No. The best you can do is roll it into a
                        an ordinary IRA and then convert it to Roth and
                        pay the taxes.  1998 is the best year to convert
                        as you can stretch the tax bill over four years.
          \_ At least where I work, you can put up to 20% in 401k, with the
             first 4.5% matched by the company. Putting as much into 401k
             is the best way to get the most money overall out of a company.
             \_ I think there's a limit of $15,000 per year imposed by
                the government. So, 20% of your income up to $15,000 is
                more correct. --dim
                \_ last time I checked it was $10 ...
                   \_ For 1998 it is $10K for most people.
                \_ does this 10k limit include employer contributed
1998/5/28 [Reference/Tax] UID:14144 Activity:low
5/28    John Tank update:
        -John has postponed tankdom until June '99
        -John wants to postpone tankdom until further
        -John found out that if he gets a tank, he really won't get to
         shoot up Germany or roll over small cars all that much
        -John is officially disgusted and trying to get out of the whole
         thing after finding out he would have to do pushups
        -John bought a big car and an air rifle
        -John is now officially trying to avoid having to do pushups
         or civil service or having to pay army avoidance taxes
        -Elite ZOG shock troopers will crush evil Swiss army goons
         Justice will be served
        \_ Does anyone have a clue what the heck he's talking about???
           \_ he's talking about why he should come back to the US
           \_ Yes.  Anyone who knows John knows exactly what he's talking
              about.  These aren't the only reasons he should come back.
              I can think up about 275 million more reasons.
1998/5/21 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:14125 Activity:very high
5/21    I don't really know the first thing about money, but say you're a new
        grad getting 50k... after taxes and stuff, how much are you really
     \_ Here we go again....
        \_ not enough
       \_ less than everyone else on soda (except the UCB employees and the
                people who are still students)
        \_ After petty 401K and stock purchase plan and outrageous housing
           rates, I get about $15K year saving. And yes, I make 55K/year.
           \_ Does that include your 401K plan savings?  How much do you
              put in it in any case?
              \_ Put as much as your employer allows.  At the minimum, you
                 should put in enough to for the employer's match. -trustme
           \_ if you think you actually deserve more than $15K/yr savings
              by pressing buttons (i.e.: coding), you're high.
1998/4/1-2 [Reference/Tax] UID:13889 Activity:very high
4/1     [All tax related questions purged.  Go ask a CPA.]
        \_ I am a CPA, just post them here...
          \_ Post your business phone number.
            \_ Go read Irwin Schiff's "Federal Mafia" and don't pay taxes again
                \_ Do not pass GO.  Do not collect $200.00.
        \_ I want to pay my taxes but yet I refuse to sign any paper
           issued by the government.  What can I do?
           \_ Make a voluntary contribution to reduce the public debt
              anonymously via a Swiss bank in the amount that your tax burden
              would have come to.
                \_ Do not pass GO.  Do not collect $200.00.
1998/4/1 [Reference/Tax] UID:13888 Activity:nil
3/31 What kinda tax break can I get for paying my own tuition?
        \_ I know you can deduct part of this, I think 20%.
1998/3/31-4/1 [Reference/Tax] UID:13873 Activity:high
3/30    Exact how much tax break do you get for owning a house?
        \_ Who here owns their own house and if you can afford that why can't
           you afford a CPA once a year to do your taxes?
        \_ None.  Your home mortgage interest is deductible...
        \-dont quote me but i think up to $1M of mortgage interest is
        deductable. but of course you consolidate all your other debts,
        and pay them off with an equity loan which ends up deductable.
        this number is supposed to be gradually reduced but i dont remember
        the schedule. --psb
        \Mortgage interest and state/local property taxes on a home
        are deductable.  The amount of the tax break depends upon how
        much interest you pay (in the early years of a 30 year mortgage,
        more than 90% of your payments are interest alone) and on your
        tax bracket.  If you paid $10,000 in interest over a year of
        mortgage payments and you're in the 28% bracket, your tax bill
        is reduced by $2,800.
          \_  So, extrapolating, does this mean that if you're in the 35%
              Tax bracket with a $10,000 in interest mortgage, you get
                to take a $3,500 deduction (i.e., is the formula as simple
                multiply the interest by the tax bracket)?
                \_Yes.  The $10,000 of interest is deductable and thus
                reduces your taxable income by $10,000.  Your tax bill
                is reduced by $3,500 if you are in the 35% bracket,
                $2,800 if you're in the 28% bracket, $1,500 in the 15%
                bracket, etc.  because the government exempts you from
                paying taxes on income that you used to pay mortgage
                interest. Great deal for homeowners. Bad deal for renters.
     \_ Can I deduct my mortgage for my two vacation homes?
        \_ Don't remember the exact rule, but I think you have to live in
           your "primary residence" more than half the year, and can only
           claim one such residence.
        \_ What's someone with 2 vacation homes doing posting on soda?
           shouldn't you be cowering behind your gated (firewalled)
           communities, trying to keep the proletariat rabble (d00dz)
           out of your pocketbook?
1998/3/25 [Reference/Tax] UID:13860 Activity:kinda low
3/25    Where can I get a Schedule D form? Thanks!!!
        \_ All tax forms are available on the IRS website
1998/3/11 [Reference/Tax] UID:13789 Activity:high
3/10    Where can I donate old hardware and get a tax refund?
        (I am talking about 68040 machines)  - tyf
        \_ The CSUA could take them for tax refund -- not that they'd know
           what to do with them.  Maybe loaners to starving students?
1998/2/21 [Reference/Tax, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:13712 Activity:nil
2/20    All of you people with tax questions:  Are you insane?  You're asking
        for legal advice on the soda MOTD?!?  If you take someone's advice
        on the MOTD and they're wrong, and you get audited, you're *FUCKED*!
        Don't be cheap.  Go pay a few bucks to someone licensed and trained
        in these matters.
1998/2/17-18 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Investment] UID:13687 Activity:high
02/17   I've lost a lot of $ in the stock market, and someone told me that I
        could claim "capital loss" for tax purposes. However, when I look at
        my W form, I don't see any loss figures. So how do I claim it?
                                                        \_ Hire a CPA.
        \_ you need to fill out a schedule D.  It has nothing to do with
          your W form.  And you can only claim 3000/year (but can carry
          over larger amounts to subsequent years.) And try not to
          trade so much in the future, you high roller, you.
          \_ I lost 4000... so how much do I get back? Also, where do I get
                \_ Depends on your income - and you're not "getting it back"
                   The government isn't covering your losses, just cutting
                   you a small break on your taxes.
             this schedule D? (btw I'm NEVER trading again)
               \_ Ask the IRS for a schedule D. Also, your 4000 loss must
              be subtracted from any long term gain you may have seen
             from your "trading" (and mutual fund distributions, if you
             have any).  BTW, this isn'r really the right forum for this
              -- but it'll get you started.  It's good that you are not
                \_ what's wrong with trading? i've made a shit load of money
                trading this year. you just gotta know what you are doing.
                \_ unless you are actively trading millions of dollars,
                  commissions and taxes will take a large part of your
                  big-shot gains.  That's all I meant.  And im sure you
                     just make so much money "trading" hot shot.
                  \_ i don't see how trading millions of dollars at a
                     time reduces the tax burden. but yeah, for most
                     people, investing is a much better idea.
                        \_ It doesn't.  You pay taxes at the end of the year
                           not on a per-transaction basis.  Also, if you're
                           trading that much your broker is probably giving
                           you a break, but you're definitely in the top tax
        \_ FUCK CONRAD
           \_ Who's Conrad?  Is he sexy?
             going to trade anymore.  Try _investing_ instead.
                  \_ well, if they're short-term losses, they're
                     subtracted from short-term gains.
1995/3/1 [Reference/Tax] UID:31772 Activity:nil
3/1    The best way to do your taxes is using TurboTax on a Pentium.
2018/11/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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