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| 12/24 |
| 2004/5/21 [Reference/Religion] UID:30350 Activity:high |
5/21 http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=1885406&nav=EyAzNJKP Man, don't go golfing in Florida. (Actually gator bites car) \_ There was a 8 foot gator in the pool of my grandparent's neighbors in Boca. \_ Never live in a town called "Rat Mouth" \_ Tell that to the jews who have taken over. |
| 2004/5/14 [Reference/Religion] UID:30227 Activity:high |
5/13 The Pope speak out against women marrying Muslims.
http://tinyurl.com/26vj3 (yahoo)
\_ Technically, that article doesn't mention the pope speaking out
personally...
\_ I think the pope himself has gotten too old to do much but wheeze.
\_ We need a real Pope in Rome again, a warrior Pope,
to Christianize Asia once and for all. Are the missionaries
to scared to preach in Iraq?
\_ I agree with him.
\_ I speak out against women marrying any religious people.
\_ That's sexist! I speak out against all persons marrying any
religious people!
\_ I think gay marriage should be between a man and a woman.
-- Governator
\_ bleah, they are violating the sanctity of gay marriage. |
| 12/24 |
| 2004/5/13-14 [Reference/Religion] UID:30204 Activity:insanely high |
5/13 This is quality:
http://www.jesus-action-figure.com -John
\_ Yeah, quality mocking of over a billion people's religion.
\_ oh, NOW the motd offends you?
\_ fuck 'em. http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
The Catholic church is truly an evil thing. With a brutal
and intolerant history, it doesn't deserve immunity to criticism.
\_ ???
\_ hey man, I'm catholic and though it's tasteless, it's also
freakin' hilarious.
\_ Thank you for censoring the PC crap, so I didn't have to yell
at it.
\_ ??? I think you're blaming the wrong poster.
\_ Restored. I'm willing to debate with haters. If you just
want to froth and rant you'll be ignored.
\_ sort of like how it's "ok" to call someone nigger as long as
you're black, huh? Not. Just because a pseudo-Catholic
finds it funny doesn't mean it's "ok".
\_ Were you this upset at Buddy Jesus in Dogma?
\_ thicken that skin, pal.
\_ will you be calling me nigger, next? you want me to be
a thick skinned nigger so you can feel warm and cozy and
safe in your little nest of hatred?
\_ That you see a parody like that as driven by hatred
is really sad. How would you react to a crucifix
in a large vat of urine?
link:csua.org/u/7aq
\_ Do you have any standing on this issue? If you're
not Catholic, why should you care what jokes
Catholics make about themselves? Just chill out.
\_ Red herring. A non-black calling a black a nigger is
evocative of hundreds of years of slavery and institution-
alized racism, just as a non-Jew calling a Jew a kike is
evocative of anti-Semitism and the sort of thinking that
led to the Holocaust. Catholicism and the general flavors
of Christianity are firmly enough established in positions
of power and acceptance in the world to be fair game to
parody and satire. You can't be the dominant majority
and cry "Discrimination!" every time someone takes a pot-
shot at you.
\_ Ilya to thread in 5...4...3...
\_ Ok, I ll oblige. You can't justify a 'bad thing'
by saying it's done to powerful people. If it's bad,
it's bad all around. Is putting graffiti on a rich
person's car ok? How about breaking his windows?
How about raping his wife? -- ilyas
\_ I think it's yet to be shown that the link was in
any way discriminatory.
\_ So if someone makes a documentary about a lynching
of a famous black person in the south, and someone
makes some action figures, that would be ok, right?
-- ilyas
\_ Like this, it would be off color and possibly
in poor taste, but it's not discriminatory.
If they could manage to make it funny as well,
then that's icing. You may as well get pissed
off at Dave Chappelle's show. Or you can just
laugh. Or you can change the channel.
\_ Yeah, try to market an action figure
featuring a black man, a noose, and a tree.
Think for a second, whether this will fly
or not. You should use your 'but it's not
discriminatory!' defense when the civil
rights people with pitchforks get to your
house. -- ilyas
\_ Package it right, make it clear that it's
parody, and you'll sure as hell find a
market.
\_ Yeah... try it and let us know how it
works out. Is there explicit
indication the Christian stuff in
the link was parody? -- ilyas
\_ Uh, only the whole site.
\_ Explicit?
\_ I want my Ariel Sharon doll with super wall-
building action and tree plowing bulldozer!
\_ Why is this insulting to christians? Why isn't Gibson making
gore entertainment out the passion insulting, and in fact
blasphemous?
\_ It's only unwise to mock religions that breed suicide bombers
\_ Isway itway OKway otay ockmay Islamway inway Igpay Atinlay?
\_ No way, Jose. -- Uday & Qusay |
| 2004/3/31-4/1 [Recreation/Computer, Reference/Religion] UID:29891 Activity:high |
3/31 Some of you happy fun people need this shirt:
http://christ-killer.com
\_ anti-semite
\_ dumbass, the site was featured on http://jewnews.com. FJBJ
\_ FJBJ?! For Jews By Jews?!
\_ Insert your humor chip. It's a play on FUBU.
\_ how does FJBJ map to FUBU? you do know what FUBU
stands for, don't you?
\_ Hey, as long as we're just throwing stupid insults around, can
I call you a humorless tard?
\_ why is anti-semite an insult?
\_ This is exquisitely bad.
\_ thanks! we aim to please. |
| 2004/3/30-31 [Reference/Religion] UID:12933 Activity:low |
3/30 God's own lamb:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3572325.stm
\_ Mmmmh. Kebab. -John
\_ I'm sure you mean, "The Lamb of God"
\_ How much you want to bet someone drew that on the fur with some
caustic agent?
\_ Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world, have mercy on us
\_ what about the cow born in idaho w/ GWB birthmark on it?
\_ I'm pretty sure that was yermom's ass.
\_ he said cow not mule.
\_ I thought he said asshole; oh, you're talking about the
animal, not the personage....
\_ Every cow comes with one asshole.
This cow came with two. |
| 2004/3/26 [Reference/Religion] UID:12870 Activity:nil |
3/26 Palestinians can't even enjoy a swim on the beach without being shot
by the Jews! Why can't the Jews share the oceans? Aren't the oceans
big enough for all of us?
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&u=/ap/20040326/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_13&printer=1
\_ Surely there are more interesting things to post than
run of the mill news... |
| 2004/3/24 [Reference/Religion] UID:12842 Activity:nil |
3/24 acknowledging God != religion
\_ More to the point, acknowledging God != establishing religion
Religion is a very exact way of trying to approch God.
Atheist acknowledge the absence of God , whether he exists
or not, they are establishing the fact that he could exist
and that is either religious or not religious, Either way,
not stating God is either establishing atheism as a religion
or stating God is not religious but acknowledging he could
exist.
\_ Not stating God is not stating Atheism.
Stating there is no God is stating Atheism.
\_ I think you're confusing Atheism with agnosticism. Atheism is
a religion.
\_ 'Strong' Atheism = "There is no God."
'Weak' Atheism = "The case for God remains unproven."
\_ I think you're confusing Atheism with agnosticism. Atheism
is a religion.
\_ Religion: 1. The outward act or form by which men
indicate their recognition of the existence of a
god or of gods having power over their destiny.
So, atheism is by definition not a religion. -tom
\_ Definitions of religion and atheism are fluid and
sticky. Here's one way to look at it: religion can be
defined as a belief system based on faith, not proof.
An atheist believes God doesn't exist even if it can't
be proven that God doesn't exist. A Christian believes
God exists even if it can't be proven that God exists.
So both are religions. Agnostics are actually less of
a religion, since agnostics aren't sure either way and
need some sort of proof to make up their minds.
\_ alt.atheism agrees with you, tom is a twink
\_ alt.atheism claims that atheism is a religion?
I think not.
\_ Well I believe religion involves a system of belief.
Not just existence/nonexistence. You could say that
simple theism isn't a religion, and I'd could agree,
but who is just a theist without any further belief?
You'd be believing there's a god without any notion
or system of behavior associated with it, which is
pretty rare, basically impossible depending on your
definition of what god is.
\_ Religion cannot be defined as "a belief system based
on faith, not proof." Well, you can define it that
way, but your definition will have no validity
outside of your own skull.
\_ m-w has 4 definitions for religion, one of them
is "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held
to with ardor and faith", and one of the
definitions of faith is "firm belief in something
for which there is no proof", so I don't think
the definition given is "invalid". I understand
that it's not your definition, and that's fine.
\_ In addition to having no clue theoolgically,
you also can't read a dictionary. -tom
\_ Good point. And while I do not believe in
Santa Claus, I have no definitive proof that
the occasional present that noone has any
idea who gave it is not, in fact, from
Santa. So, I guess I am religious.
In addition, believing something *does* exist, with
no proof, is not the same as believing something
*doesn't* exist. The burden of proof is on the
person who claims that something exists--if there's
no evidence that something exists, why should
anyone believe it does? So atheism isn't even
a belief system--it's just an examination of the
available facts. -tom
\_ Why is it more natural to assume that something
doesn't exist than to assume it does? -- ilyas
\_ because the set of things that exist is
finite, and the set of things that don't
exist is infinite. -tom
\_ The set of things that exist is not
necessarily finite. No one knows how large
the Universe is. Also, a more reasonable
rule is that the burden of proof is on
the person whose hypothesis is more
'expensive'. For instance, I think the sun
exists, and someone might not. The burden
of proof ought not be on me, it seems.
You can argue that God is more expensive to
assume than no God, but that's a whole
separate discussion. Personally, I believe
even that rule is too rigid, and that
the burden of proof is on anyone who
proposes anything, regardless of what
their hypothesis claims. -- ilyas
\_ Just because a set is finite doesn't
mean you can't add to it. Besides,
God is more expensive because he
wants 10% of your income.
\_ huh? how can you quantify things that
do not exists?
\_ set of possibilities != existing
\_ take a math course please
\_ haha= so ZERO = INFINITY?
\_ Because there's no evidence for it. Things that
exist have evidence for their existence.
\_ so why do you ignore the fact that millions
if not billions of people believe in God?
That was be circumstantial evidence to prove
that you must as an atheist acknowledge the
the possibility that God does exist.
\_ What other people believe isn't relevant to
truth. We know lots of cases in history
where people believed something untrue.
Additionally, the fact that all these people
can't agree on the nature of god, and have
lots of variations, and often don't act as
if they truly believe what they say, and
when asked admit they don't really know for
sure and rely on faith, can be seen as
against the existence of god. In fact,
observational evidence tells me there's no
sign of any god and never has been.
\_ Are you trying to convert me by speaking in
tongues? Millions of people believe that
Britney Spears has talent, that doesn't make
it true. -tom
\_ alt.atheism agrees with you, tom is a twink
\_ I'm not confusing anything. I simply offered a definition
that you disagree with.
\_ him and the entire secular society that knows anything
\_ "There is not Santa Claus" -Would you say this is also a
religion, by your above definition? How about "There are no
underpants gnomes"?
\_ just stating the existance of something doesn't make that
a religion.
\_ I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. All
I'm saying is that it's difficult to prove the
nonexistance of anything. Atheists believe there is no
God. Religion is just a question of existance that is
so important it defines a person's view of the universe.
I don't think the existance or nonexistance of Santa
Clause carries the same wieght.
\_ Huh? What kind of circular run-on talk is this?
\_ If you're not informed enough to know the distinction between
an atheist and an agnostic, why should we listen to your poorly
worded and convoluted thoughts on religion and presumably its
role in government? |
| 2004/3/24 [Reference/Religion] UID:12839 Activity:nil |
3/24 if just hearing the word God sqinches your panties, then you
are definately religious
\_ What if it makes me wet? |
| 2004/3/24 [Reference/Religion] UID:12836 Activity:nil |
3/24 NYTimes' William Saffire on 'Under God' in the Pledge of Allegciance
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/24/opinion/24SAFI.html
He says the guy who brought the suit is an idiot, but the words
'under god' should never have been added, but we shouldn't take them
out because it would offend religious people. I don't get it.
\_ WILLIAM SAFIRE, The New York Times' in-house "conservative"
-- who endorsed Bill Clinton in 1992 .... -- Ann Coutler
\_ What's with the "indivisible" part of it? Why isn't the USA
divisible? That's against my religion.
\_ They tried dividing it, and there was a big war. Nobody wants
to try again.
\_ speak for yourself.
\_ there isn't even justice for all. only the liberals who
control the courts
\_ yeah, those masters of puppets. we should kill 'em all.
\_ time to stock up on bullets for the coming Civil War
\_ Eight months and counting...
\_ What civil war? The religious types run the military, and
the whiny athesits don't have guns. If it comes to that, I
suggest you find Jesus real fast. The atheists ain't gonna
last long. They exist by the grace of the Christians.
\_ So you're saying atheists exist because Christians are being
gracious enough to not murder them?
\_ More or less. See how long a true Atheist lasts in
the Middle East. (I was refering to the context of
a civil war, Christians vs Atheists, doofus. A
little too tounge in cheek for ya'?)
\_ I'm an atheist *and* a good shot buddy.
\_ I think it's pretty obvious. It was put in by the legislature
(I assume) and found constitutional then. It's not forcing
\_ Um.. read up on the process of judicial review.
religion on anyone, it's the universal conept of God.
Therefore taking it out by the supreme court is overbearing and
just increases the "activist judges" claims. Take it out by
legislature if you want it out.
\_ It forces the idea that there is a god. You know the religious
types would claim they're being opressed if the pledge said
"without god" instead.
\_ As I said, make that argument to the legislature.
\_ The Supreme Court should enforce the law that says
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion..." By inserting reverance to a single god into
a government document, that seems like a violation of
the constitution. It's the job of the courts to defend
the constitution from lesser laws that conflict with it.
\_ excuse me, Goverment documents != Laws - sorry
\_ please name the Statute or Ordinance where it
forces people to worship God?
\_ okay, what is the specific law that they are talking about
that is forcing people to say "under God"?
\_ Nobody is forced to say it. The controversy is about the fact
that it is a commonly-used government text. In many states,
school children are required to listen to the pledge.
\_ then it's not unconstitutional, no law was made that
established a religion or God
\_ why are people forgetting that laws are specific Statutes or
Ordinances that are enforceable by the Executive Branch? the
Pledge of Allegiance is not enforceable and there is no
punishment for not stating it.
\_ In a lot os states, there is punishment for a school which fails to
lead its students in the pledge. The students are effectively
required to listen to the idea that the US is a 'under' or subject
to monotheism.
\_ that is up for the States to decide, "Congress shall make
no law" refers to the Federal Level. States should be
able to do whatever they want
\_ well if there is a God, the whole universe is subject to it.
\_ so putting up the 10 commandments is also forcing people
to listen to the idea that a God exists? |
| 2004/3/22-23 [Reference/Religion] UID:12806 Activity:moderate |
3/22 I know everyone will think this is a troll, but I am genuinely
curious. Why did the Isrealis assassinate Yasser with a rocket
when they could have arrested him and put him on trial?
Only serious answers please.
\_ more dramatic. He was already released once from Isreali prison.
\_ Could have arrested him? How? Do you still remember that an
Israeli attempt to arrest a bunch of Palestinian militants
two years ago resulted in a five week stand-off at the
Church of Nativity in Bethlehem? Or the violent battle that
took place in Jenin? It's not like Israeli police can just
drive a police car to his house and arrest him.
\- well maybe killing palestinians at the rate of 3:1 against
israelis isnt enough and they want to radicalize things more
so they can go up to 10:1 or 20:1 or 50:1. you know this is
the second hamas leader they have killed in the last few months.
--psb
\_ Why do you single out jews? What's the kill ratio of Hindis
vs Muslims in India outside Kashmir, where one can honestly
say that the muslims are not the one causing terror?
\- because that is what this thread is about. without a
doubt there are human rights abuses done by the indian
military forces in the valley of kashmir.
it is not a hindi [sic] muslim matter but a government
vs. rebels. e.g. kps gill who "settled" punjab is a
sikh. please delete your irrelevant post and my reply
after you read it. --psb
\_ oh bullshit, there are plenty of dead muslims inside
indias borders killed by both the government and
civilians gone into nutty religious frenzies.
\_ the 2nd? i thought their recent track record was better than
that. they should send those missile guys out to the range to
do some firing practice. 2 in a few months is pathetic. if
they killed off the bastards faster, fewer Israeli and Arab
children would die.
doubt what happened in gujrat is indefensible. if you
want to start a thread on that feel free, but you may
want to learn the difference between hindi and hindu,
before wading into indian history and politics --psb |
| 2004/3/20-21 [Reference/Religion] UID:12773 Activity:moderate |
3/19 so it's okay for "ethnic albanians" to ethnically cleanse
kosovo and burn all the churches there.
\_ Yes. The Albanians aren't Israeli and their victims aren't a
harmless, defenseless people like the Palestinians. The Albanians
are a peace loving people who are merely setting right historical
injustices done upon them by Evil Christans(c). It's a form of
international level affirmative action.
\_ You really have a one track mind, don't you?
\_ Not at all. (say something stupid get a stupid reply)
\_ What ever gave you that idea? NATO is calling for more troops and
informing the populace that this must end, now.
\_ "or else!" what good does that do for the ones already
butchered? not a god damned thing, that's what. but they're
only dirt eating eastern european christians so who cares?
\_ I appreciate your frustration, but the point is that NATO
is trying to do something. If you have concrete suggestions
on what they can do, post them.
\_ Ok, so where are the troops? No, they're only talking
about sending troops whenever the hell they get around to
it. There have been troops in the region since Clinton
put them there half a decade ago. Why aren't they doing
something?
\_ I bet you were one of those guys who said Clinton was just
trying to wag the dog when he sent troops to Kosovo, aren't you?
\_ Except we were supporting the wrong side. We should
be supporting the Christian Serbs.
\_ as a christian I disagree with your stoopid
viewpoint.
\_ as a christian on the motd your opinion has no
value. you are automatically scum of the earth and
full of hate and a redneck.
\_ I'm still waiting to read a single post by
a motd christian that uses their religion to
argue anything but hatred of homosexuals, jews,
muslims or the word "fuck." Do you want to be
the first?
\_ I'm not a christian and I agree with him, but not
because "they're christian". why should we help
separatist albanians in a historically serbian area?
\_ That's fine with me. I just don't like people
giving Christians a bad name. I am against
mass murders.
giving Christians a bad name.
\_ No one ever said that. He was wagging the dog when he
blew up an aspirin factory in the Sudan and a few empty
tents in Afghanistan. |
| 2004/3/19-20 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Religion] UID:12768 Activity:nil |
3/19 Why does whitey hate the Asian man so much?
http://csua.org/u/6im
\_ They didn't like him b/c he's Muslim. At least get your trolling
straight.
\_ whiteys hate muslims more than they hate azns, get it right
\_ Yeah but muslim and azn is more than whitey can even stand
thinking about.
\_ A Chinese born of Christian parents who converted to Islam and bred
with a Syrian and fucked a White soldier's wife and felt Pity for
captives of the State (a christian virtue) and looked at porn when
he became horny. He is guilty as hell.
\_ why ask why? whitey is evil and must be destroyed along with the
zionist entity and anyone to the right of b.boxer. |
| 2004/3/19 [Reference/Religion] UID:12753 Activity:nil |
3/18 I remember there is a Mormon here on Soda. I got a stupid question
which is not that offensive. Does any Mormon still use Deseret
alphabets today? I would imagine it would of died out by now, but
I have heard that it never did. Is that true?
\_ We're all around you. And we're breeding.
\_ Shall I compare thee to a cellular automata?
\_ singular ---> automaton
Oh, and I've never seen the deseret alphabet before. Nice info
about it at: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/deseret.htm
-emarkp |
| 2004/3/17-18 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12727 Activity:nil |
3/17 In American Pie, is Jim suppose to be Jewish?
\_ James is a Christian name.
\_ So everyone named James is Christian?
\_ I would not try to claim that I know what every single
person on the planet earth might decide name their kid.
\_ He *looks* like a Jew, right? But he doesn't wear one of those
beanie hates so maybe he isn't....
\_ the character's last name is "Levinstein".
\_ thats a jew name? |
| 2004/3/17 [Reference/Religion] UID:12718 Activity:nil |
3/17 I thought this was interesting: In nature, there are hundreds of
documented species that engage in same-gender sex, but there is
one kind of "lifestyle" that is not found in nature: lifelong,
voluntary abstinence. So, the next time some bible-thumping
individual rants on about gays being "not natural", think about how
celibate priests don't have an even remotely "natural" sex life.
\_ There are also many documented cases of species engaged in
infanticide and cannabalism. So are you suggesting that
humans should engage in these activities with the sanction
of society and the state? With loopy thinking like that
I can justify just about anything. Anyway, the Old
Testament preaches that humans are differentiated from
other species, so your argument pretty much falls
flat on its face. When religious types talk about homosexuality
as being "unnatural" they mean it goes against their concept
of what god meant for people, not animals. -- williamc
\_ So homosexuality, infanticide, cannibalism are all natural.
Shouldn't people condemn homosexuality by calling it 'sinful'?
That would be much more accurate. The only problem is that it
exposes the fact that their objection is religious, not that
it somehow hurts society or nature.
\_ Ummm... The only people I've heard call it "unnatural"
are crazy rednecks. I've have heard people say it's not
normal and it's harmful to society though...
\_ When you say "only crazy rednecks call it unnatural" you're
pre-defining the debate. It's a cheap rhetorical tactic
that would get you kicked out of rhetoric 1a.
\_ Sorry, you've mixed up your religions. Any "bible-thumper"
would be a baptist or some such protestant religion. Not
Catholic. Therefore, they would probably agree with you.
Priests not being able to marry was one of the arguments for
the reformation. Besides, depending on what kind of bible
thumper you're talking to, they might just say that humans have
all sorts of "natural urges" that should be quelled, and
just list Homosexulality under that. Sorry.
\_ Catholics disapprove of homosexual marriages. Please don't
mislead.
\_ You also have your sociology mixed up with your animal sciences.
No one has tried to claim celebacy is normal. And one of those
bible thumpers you hate so much would tell you that because Man is
above Beast that we should not look to the animals for the correct
way to behave or be closer to God. Sorry but you're not going
anywhere with this stuff outside your own self reinforcing social
circles.
\_ I think the point is that the "unnatural" label doesn't work.
You can still call it "sinful" if you wish.
\_ Can I call it abnormal? I think unnatural works. How else
would you describe the obvious disparity between how sex
works, and how homosexuals practice it? Our organs and
reproduction are clearly designed for opposite sex partners.
There are cases of two-headed animals in nature but that
doesn't mean that's "natural". Now homosexual attraction
is more common but you can't just dismiss the unnatural
argument as crazy. |
| 2004/3/15-16 [Reference/Religion] UID:12686 Activity:very high |
3/15 Who would win in a fight: Joseph Smith or Moses?
\_ Does Joseph Smith get to drive da Bears Bus? -John
\_ Young, part the Red Sea Moses or old, after 40 years
in the wilderness Moses?
\_ As long as he keeps his arms up, Moses wins at any age.
\_ Jacob, who wrestled God and won.
\_ Depends on the type of fight. 1. Miracle Fight. A bit silly
since they are both servents of God with miracles under their
belts, but... I give this one to Moses. More consistently
\_ Depends on the type of fight. 1. Miricle Fight. A bit silly
since they are both servents of God with miricles under their
belts, but... I give this one to Moses. More consistantly
big miricles. 2. Unarmed combat. JS was famous for being
big miracles. 2. Unarmed combat. JS was famous for being
extremely strong and an excellent wrestler. Moses was a
prince. Point to JS. 3. Sword combat. Probably Moses, he
was a prince of Egypt and probably studied sword/knife
fighting. (Or whatever was common then) 4. Modern armed
combat. JS. Moses had no experience with guns... -jrleek
extremely strong and an excellent wrestler. Moses was a
prince. Point to JS. 3. Sword combat. Probably Moses, he
was a prince of Egypt and probably studied sword/knife
fighting. (Or whatever was common then) 4. Modern armed
combat. JS. Moses had no experiance with guns... -jrleek
\_ Can you try spelling a little more poorly?
\_ oKe, butt I don' tknoe why.
\_ wrestling was a popular sport among ancient peoples. Moses
takes all of them except the modern gun combat. give him a
sling instead and we'll see.
\_ maybe Moses could win in modern gun combat too:
http://www.bradthegame.com/thesecondcoming/barabbas/07-01.html
\_ haven't you seen the Super Best Friends episode of South Park? |
| 2004/3/14-15 [Reference/Religion] UID:12658 Activity:high |
3/14 To the fellow who believes Mormons are not Christian, and wonders
why Mormons believe they are: I believe we are having a problem
of defintion. So, I will seek to define the word Christian. The
first definition on http://www.dictionary.com Christian: "Professing
belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the
life and teachings of Jesus." By this definition, Mormons are
obviously Christian. Since this is the widely accepted
definition of Christian, Mormons will argue that they are Christian.
Apparently you have a different definition, I would like to know
what it is. -jrleek
\_ Preposterous. Islam believes that Jesus existed and was a prophet.
I doubt any Muslim would call themselves Christians. Your
thinking fails. Also, religion is a complex, messy subject.
You can't simply whip out an internet dictionary and
try to "define" Christianity. You should cease attempting
to define things you know little or nothing about. -- williamc
\_ in the Mormon religion, who is Jesus Christ? And who is God?
\_ I'm not sure I follow your question.
\_ Well, it says "following the religion based on...". This religion
is pretty well established in its various forms. Mormons add a
large other set of religious stuff, incidentally not unlike Islam
in my view. So there it is. I'm not a Christian btw.
\_ Fine, and it's not like I haven't noticed the similarity
myself. But we don't believe Christ was just another
prophet. He is/was the son of God, and out connection to
the father. Our church is based on his teachings. The
additions are simply as restoration of what was lost, not
new additions.
\_ Christians believe that Jesus *was* God. This is a
fundamental tenet that Mormons reject.
\_ Not "God", "God the Son". Very important.
\_ This has been the basis of "heresy" from the Church
in many forms. Some say God the Son, some say Son
of God, some say God as Son, and some say Son
become God.
\_ They are new additions to the religion. No other
Christians accept them. None. Only Mormons. This makes
Mormons unique. It's not like a denomination. It's an
entirely new religion. Someone else pointed out how
Christianity and Judaism and Islam are related. In the
same way Mormons are related to Christianity, but they
are not Christians. They have fundamental teachings and
beliefs that Christianity rejects. Here is one web site
to read, but there are others. The definition you use is
too broad, because the "life and teachings of Jesus" are
at the center of the debate:
http://www.reachouttrust.org/regulars/articles/lds/lds01.htm
\_ You just don't get it. The "new" things are those that
were there in the first place, but lost in the translation.
JS rediscovered them. In a sense, only the Mormons are
complete, whole christians. The other ones are missing
parts.
\_ Not to meantion, this link is wrong in many respects.
It is full of red herrings and non-cannon (and wrong)
references. Not to meantion as far as I can tell
the intro has nothing to do with the body
or conclusion. This debate is stupid anyway.
There are equally huge differences between say,
Catholics and 7th day Adventists. Are Mormons unique?
Of course. Are Mormons Christian? Of course. I still
want to see your definition of what makes a religion
Christian. Does it have to accept the Niciean creed?
Does it have to be logically consistant? What?
-jrleek
\_ Simply that they don't add a bunch of *new* holy dogma,
certainly not to the point that they add a whole new
holy book. I'd say no re: nicene creed, as that
involves interpretation and church structure.
\_ More to the point, do you consider the Gnostics to be
Christians? If you do, then the Mormons are also
Christians. If not, then just about anyone not Catholic
doesn't count as a Christian.
\_ Well I'd say Gnosticism may be different enough so as to
not be what is called Christianity. If history had been
different and Gnosticism spread everywhere then perhaps
that is what we'd call Christian. But it didn't. |
| 2004/3/13-15 [Reference/Religion] UID:12654 Activity:high |
3/13 So, I just watched an episode of south park titled
"all about mormons", in which it mentions how joseph smith claimed
to have talked to god and jesus, how an angel directed him to
gold plates and seer stones from which the book of mormon was
transcribed, how no one ever really got to examine the plates
and how he read them out of a hat, etc. stan concludes that the
mormon religion is total bs, and gary (the mormon kid) says that
if it makes his family happy and gives him a good life, then why
not even if it is all crap. i know there are at least a couple
mormons around here, and i'm wondering what you have to say about
this. thanks.
\_ As you may have noticed, the motd is now the most productive forum
\_ As you may have noticed, the motd is not the most productive forum
for discussion about this. The motd is better for sound bytes and
short answers, not for in-depth discussion. -emarkp
\_ It's much more useful and productive to dress up in drab suits
and harass people in their homes.
short answers, not for in-depth discussion. -emarkp
\_ you can have tv shows like the above mormonism, or christianity,
and harass people in their homes.
\_ When did you stop beating your wife? -emarkp
\_ Why did you stop beating your wife? -emarkp
\_ you can have tv shows like the above on mormonism, or christianity,
but if you do something like that against judaism, you will be
skewered alive.
\_ Maybe you haven't seen the endless pro-palestinian anti-israeli
biased news reports for the last umpteen years?
biased news reports for the last umpteen years?
\_ I did not find the news media on the whole anti-isareli
and pro-palestinian. even those that are more on the
palestinian side, are against isreali policies, not
against judaism. I am sure it is within your ability to
understand the difference.
\_ So anything questioning Israeli policy is anti-semitic?
Fucking idiot. Maybe you haven't seen all the terrorism
coverage?
\_ Yes, actually, I have seen it. In this and other
\_ What am I saying? Simply that your example of
"anti-israeli biased news reports", even if that's true,
isn't anything "against judaism" itself, and that you're
a fucking idiot for apparently thinking so.
but if you do something like that against judaism, you will be
skewered alive.
countries. What do you think you're trying to say and
\_ no, they aren't, any more than christians are joos.
why does calling me a fucking idiot improve the quality
of your 'points' whatever they might be? if you'd like
to try again with a civil tongue in your head we can
talk about it. if you're just going to insult me then
don't bother posting.
\_ no, they aren't, any more than christians are jews.
\_ What am I saying? Simply that your example of
"anti-israeli biased news reports", even if that's true,
\_ I occur. They are not Christians at all. What's
\_ whats a joos? juice? grape worshippers?? what?
\_ ignoramus! where do you think joojoobees come from?
isn't anything "against judaism" itself, and that you're
a fucking idiot for apparently thinking so.
\_ Mormons are Christians. Just so you know. -emarkp
\_ no, they aren't, any more than christians are joos.
\_ whats a joos? juice? grape worshippers?? what?
\_ ignoramus! where do you think joojoobees come from?
\_ anything like a honey farm? joos = honeybees and
not grape juice trees? what is joos?
\_ I concur. They are not Christians at all. What's
\_ some weirdo likes changing jew to joo on motd.
maybe a hypersensitive jew.
\_ im a 'hypersensitive' jew and i prefer the
correct spelling not some insulting smear. the
word 'jew' is not offensive. why would you
\_ There is only one Church which uses the
Book of Mormon and it isn't Christian.
There's nothing wrong with not being
Christian, but I find it odd that Mormons
think that they are and argue that they are.
\_ Umm.. so. Only the Catholics use
the apocropha, are they not
Christian? The Book of Mormon is
primarialy a book about CHRIST.
\_ I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Who the heck
think it is?
\_ I occur. They are not Christians at all. What's
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
interesting is that they think that they are even though
the Christian Church rejects them. Why is that?
Moron.
\_ I have no sympathy for Morons. All you have to do is learn
skewered.
\_ Mormons are Christians. Just so you know. -emarkp
\_ no, they aren't, any more than christians are jews.
\_ mormons are happy being moron. they dont need your sympathy.
\_ Mormons believe in Christ, ergo, they are Christians.
No church defines "Christianity"
\_ they don't believe Christ was God but another prophet
\_ christianity is about christ not the church. the church
is a political organisation.
\_ Mormons believe in Christ, ergo, they are Christians.
\_ yes and in the end it's all about 'believe in our god
the way we say so because'. dont get lost in the
pseudo intellectualism of religious studies along the
way.
\_ There is a huge difference between philosophical
taoism, which came into form around the same period
as confucianism, and religious taoism, which came
into form a bit later. Although the latter claims
to follow the former, in many ways it contradicts
the former. Similarly, religious buddhism is antithetical
to the teaching of Siddhartha in more ways than one
can count. OK, I admit that I admire Chirst the saintly
man with godly deeds but not christians the lion meat.
\_ The Book of Mormon is no less "contrived language" than the
Bible. -emarkp
\_ ??? No... because the bible came from original Hebrew and
Greek sources, and was translated a long time ago. The BOM
was transparently contrived to try to "fit in" with notions
of biblical style.
but if you do something like that against judaism, you will be
skewered.
\_ I have no sympathy for Mormons. All you have to do is learn
some history and just look at the book of mormon to see what
utter bs it is. No other largish religion has such a preposterous
\_ But he does spend a significant chunk of the book on the
history of the mainstream non-splinter LDS church. Is that
(in your view / in the view of other members of your church)
accurate?
No church defines "Christianity"
basis. Look at the contrived language in the BOM.
\_ they don't believe Christ was God but another prophet
\_ neither do jews, muslims, or hindus. so what?
\_ and that's why they're not called Christians!
\_ I'm sorry, but you're a moron. Who the heck
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Mormons adopt a large set of beliefs that
\_ I'm sorry, but you're a mormon. Who the heck
aren't in Christianity. Therefore you don't call
\_ you find a cartoon to be 'not that far from the mark' and
thus a good source of primary information? make that
motd stupid person this spring award. it's a cartoon
intended to mock that which we _already_ understand. my
god, the morons are out in force today.
\_ As are the mormons, apparently.
it Christianity, but Mormon. It's very simple.
\_ Ok then, please tell me which
Mormon.
\_ I have no sympathy for Mormons. All you have to do is learn
denominations are christian a which
aren't. Apparently believing Christ is
divine isn't enough.
\_ There is only one Church which uses the
Book of Mormon and it isn't Christian.
There's nothing wrong with not being
Christian, but I find it odd that Mormons
think that they are and argue that they are.
\_ Umm.. so. Only the Catholics use
the apocropha, are they not
Christian? The Book of Mormon is
\_ If Christ was a carpenter, I wonder what he charged for
bookshelves?
primarialy a book about CHRIST.
\_ I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Who the heck
told you Mormon's don't believe Jesus CHRIST
was divine? That's why we call him CHRIST.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
is the offical church name, not Mormon. Mormon
is a nickname from our study of the Book of
Moron.
\_ I have no sympathy for Morons. All you have to do is learn
some history and just look at the book of mormon to see what
utter bs it is. No other largish religion has such a preposterous
basis. Look at the contrived language in the BOM.
\_ mormons are happy being moron. they dont need your sympathy.
\_ what about scientology?
can count. OK, I admit that I admire Chirst the man but
not christians.
\_ no, all religions are completely contrived and silly.
\_ don't confuse "religions" with "religious dogma"
For example, Taoism and Buddhism are mainly philosophy
changes? Yes. But not like they mention. Most of the
and the Talmud describes a huge number of moral questions
without simply saying "because we said so." -brain
a number of "Hebrewisms" grammatical forms simlar to
\_ yes and in the end it's all about 'believe in our god
the way we say so because'. dont get lost in the
pseudo intellectualism of religious studies along the
way.
changes? Yes. But not like they meantion. Most of the
\_ don't be lame; the Tao and Buddhism don't have a
"god"
a number of "Hebrewisms" gammatical forms simlar to
\_ actualy, there are gods in both taoist and
buddhist *religion*, while the original taoist
\_ Do you support the aggresive prosylization and the
conversion of the deceased? I agree Mormon's are
not along in agressive prosylization, but I believe
they are unique in the "ancestor conversion".
\_ I participated in some discussion of this episode a while back.
and buddhism philosophy/teaching have none.
They were, in fact, both agnostic in a sense.
see below
\_ that was a good episode. I had similar questions, and I actually
went to the official Mormon site to see what they believed.
I think what Mormons believe is a bit on the crazy side,
but I do respect many of their values and their family friendly
atmosphere.
\_ There is a huge difference between philosophical
taoism, which came into form around the same period
as confucianism, and religious taoism, which came
\_ I participated in some discussion of this episode a whlie back.
into form a bit later. Although the latter claims
to follow the former, in many ways it contradicts
the former. Similarly, religious buddhism is antithetical
to the teaching of Siddhartha in more ways than one
can count. OK, I admit that I admire Chirst the saintly
man with godly deeds but not christians the lion meat.
\_ The Book of Mormon is no less "contrived language" than the
Bible. -emarkp
\_ ??? No... because the bible came from original Hebrew and
Greek sources, and was translated a long time ago. The BOM
was transparently contrived to try to "fit in" with notions
of biblical style.
\_ for an unsympathetic but very well researched introduction to
mormonism, i highly recomend "under the banner of heaven,"
by Jon Krakauer.
\_ Um, not exactly. Krakauer focuses a lot on splinter groups, not
the LDS church. -emarkp
\_ But he does spend a significant chunk of the book on the
history of the mainstream non-splinter LDS church. Is that
(in your view / in the view of other members of your church)
accurate?
\_ Not to gang up on anyone, but this episode also ranks as one of
my primary sources of information on Mormonism and it doesn't say
much for the religion-- not that any other religion is better but
merely that it would be nice to know more.
\_ anyone who uses a south park episode as their primary source
for *anything* needs to be shot. you 'win' the prize for
"motd stupid person on the motd" for this entire month. no,
i'm not mormon. i'm an atheist.
\_ actually, i find south park to not be that far from the
mark usually.
\_ you find a cartoon to be 'not that far from the mark' and
thus a good source of primary information? make that
motd stupid person this spring award. it's a cartoon
intended to mock that which we _already_ understand. my
god, the morons are out in force today.
\_ As are the mormons, apparently.
\_ Mormonism's roots are actually no more whacky than any of the
myriad of religions out there. Christianity is basically just
hero worship from a carpenter who got nailed to a cross,
Islam started off as the cult of Mohammed who basically got
rich off of marrying the right woman and who couldn't move a
mountain so he walked over to it, Scientology is just a scam
by L. Ron Hubbard, Jews believe that god spoke to Moses
through a burning bush, eastern religions are often merely
ancestor worship mixed up with Confucionism/Buddhism/etc.
So as long as it isn't hurting anyone and people in it are
generally happy, law-abiding citizens Mormonism isn't really
much whackier than Catholicism or Baptists. I mean, whatever
brainwashing method works for you, whether it be god talking
into a hat or you believing in lucky rabbit's foot, that gets
you through the day should be fine in the U.S.
\_ If Christ was a carpenter, I wonder what he charged for
bookshelves?
\_ beating your wife?
\_ that's not really my point. i just want to know whether
our csua mormons actually believe in say, joseph smith
being a prophet. if they're mormons just to be happy, that's
all fine and well, i don't care.
conversation of the deceased? I agree Mormon's are
\_ Yes, I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and spoke with God
face to face as did Moses. -emarkp
\_ whats wrong with post-death conversion? the dead dont
care and it makes the living feel better. -atheist
\_ The dead only convert if they want to. We can't
force anyone to convert, even if they're dead. But
we do give them a chance. (Catholics send them
straight to hell)
\_ What is "conversation of the deceased"? -emarkp
\_ How sad. Students at top schools satisfy their intellectual
curiosity by watching an episode of South Park.
\_ actually, i'd been coding for some time and needed a break. -op
\_ you needed a big fat cookie, troll
\_ I believe in dog. Hah! Get it? That's god spelled
backwards! Dog is my co-pilot!
\_ Ok, I'm Mormon and I'll answer this. That episode was idiotic.
I mean, it reduces the facts to childlike simplicity, then
represented them badly and out of context. As far as do
Mormons actually believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. Yes.
Of course we do. Try reading the Book of Mormon yourself.
It's an amazing book. I'll be happy to discuss this with
anyone in a context more serious that the motd anytime.
-jrleek
\_ http://geraldpaul.fws1.com/page2.html
is this true?
\_ Well, yes an no. First, has it gone through 4100
changes? Yes. But not like they mention. Most of the
changes were punctuation, which wasn't written by JS at
all, but by the printers assistant. Also, there were a
a number of "Hebrewisms" grammatical forms simlar to
hebrew that made it into the first edition, that were
corrected in the second. Second: Did JS use the
seerstone? Yep. Why? I don't know. During later
translation works he didn't use anything at all
sometimes. Is any of this a secret? Uhh.. No. It's
well known in the church, and the missionaries will
tell you too. I could go on, but this is the motd.
\_ Basically, no. It's got a very low signal to noise ratio.
With some effort you can pick out some truthful bits, but it's
basically wrong. -emarkp
\_ Do you support the aggresive prosylization and the
conversion of the deceased? I agree Mormon's are
not along in agressive prosylization, but I believe
they are unique in the "ancestor conversion".
\_ I participated in some discussion of this episode a while back.
Same username:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=232025
-emarkp
\_ that was a good episode. I had similar questions, and I actually
went to the official Mormon site to see what they believed.
I think what Mormons believe is a bit on the crazy side,
but I do respect many of their values and their family friendly
atmosphere. |
| 2004/3/8 [Reference/Religion] UID:12573 Activity:nil |
3/8 Why are some of the active religious discussions being censored?
\_ haha. funny is you.
\_ Because Xtians have nothing to do with Linux. It isn't censorship.
It is purifying the motd of unclean influences. Who cares about
Jesus when you have Linus?
\_ Let's start a Mohammed thread.
\_ And then a motdedit thread! |
| 2004/3/7-8 [Reference/Religion] UID:12556 Activity:high |
3/7 So I'm not a Christian but I thought Passion of the Christ was pretty
cool, especially the costumes and the different languages they used.
At any rate, since I'm not a Christian, I'm wondering why the Arab/Jew
people wanted Jesus to be crucified? Didn't they show that he
was well liked before? What happened to his followers? Why didn't
they help him? -ignorant but curious agnostic guy
\- hello you may wish to see ~psb/MOTD/XtainsJewsRomans --psb
\_ Jesus followers were scared. they could be killed themselves.
\_ There were a couple of things involved here. First of all, in
the manner of Christ's teaching, he was claiming to be God,
which was heresy in the eyes of the Jewish religious leaders.
Secondly, he had managed to really piss off the Pharisees, a
sect of Judaism that had considered themselves more holy than
anyone else due to their more stringent rules of behavior.
Jesus taught a number of times to them and called them "brood of
vipers" and basically said that they had missed the forest for
the trees, and was branding their particular form of legalism
as true righteousness. As for the common people, and Judas...
there is a common theological belief that perhaps the Jewish people
were expecting the Messiah to be a political figure that would
help lead the overthrow of the Roman occupation, thus fulfilling
the Old Testament prophecy that he would be a savior of his
people. The zealot movement may have been one of the reasons
why Jesus was killed, since he showed no real sign that he was
going to be that leader. -- chaos
\_ The short version of what Chaos said is that Jesus was basically
a trouble maker, he rubbed everyone the wrong way, he was asking
for it and got what was coming to him for being such a dick. The
historical Jesus knew what was coming and had lots of time to leave
the city and stop stirring shit up which is all any of the Powers
That Be really wanted but Jesus was having none of that. No one
really *wanted* to kill Jesus. The people then were no more blood
thirsty or barbaric than people today. If you knew what you were
doing was stirring up a witch hunt that was almost certain to lead
to your death would you stick around and keep stirring or shut up
and go elsewhere until things cooled off? Jesus chose death.
\_ not really, they loved him when he was healing the sick,
performing other miracles like feeding 5000. They didn't
he was forgiving sins.
\_ Two very different "they"s. "They" the people love anyone who
makes their miserable lives better. "They" the authorities
don't care either way until you step on "their" toes.
\_ Nah, there was big trouble with or without Jesus. There
were multiple violent revolts against the Romans before
Jesus, and not long after Jesus, the Romans sent many
legions to flatten Jerusalem, leading to patriotic but
futile actions like the Masada resistance and mass
suicide of the Jews. You have Jews advocating violence
on one side, Roman pets like Herod on the other, and
corrupt Jewish priests like Caiaphas who tried to appease
both sides, so as to continue to exploit the common
people and live extravagantly. Jesus offered a vision
and a way out, for the Jews, and also applicable to
everyone else.
\_ Technically it wasn't mass suicide. It was mass murder
followed by a single suicide. Anyway, as for the rest,
yes everything was a mess and Jesus knew what he was
doing when he stuck his nose in it.
\_ it was mass assisted suicide followed by a single
unassisted one.
\_ the concept of allowing someone to kill you being
suicide vs. murder is worthy of more than a sub-
thread on the motd. they believed it was not
suicide which is why they did it that way. one
could extrapolate back and say their entire
rebelion was suicide but it doesn't work like that
\_ thanks guys, I understand this part of history a lot better
now. My question is, why Christians later HATE Roman and Greeks?
I am talking about systematic destruction of Roman and Greek
knowledge and literatures by the Christian church, and the deep
resentment toward Roman Empire as a whole?
\_ I'm not entirely sure what period of history you're
referring to in this question. After hundreds of years of
persecution, the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as its
official religion (via Emperor Constantine) and the
canonization process of the Bible took place because
Constantine wanted an official document for his troops.
-chaos
\_ the time between fall of (western) Roman Empire and
Renaissance. Christian Churchs were systemtically
destorying classical literatures. I thought this is a
well-known facts.
\_ Erm, as I've heard it, the Church and its libraries
were what preserved a great deal of literature that
otherwise would have been lost.
\_ This is only a very small truth. It was Muslims who
preserved the vast majority of this work. Sometime
later, the Christian church began rediscovering this
material, more often than not having to translate it
from Arabic. For a good historical fictionalization
of this process, check Umberto Eco's "The Name of the
Rose" - the book not the movie.
\_ One of those movies ruined by some loudmouth idiot
when I was in school and had to wait almost 10
years to enjoy later... sigh.
\_ I must've missed the part about Christians hating
Greeks, since the Greek church is the Christian
church. Maybe you should elaborate upon this. I
don't recall the Church destroying the Iliad.
\- hello there are significant differences in values
and such between the homeric greeks, the golden
age of athens [plato, the famous attic dramatists],
and the koine period. we dont interchangable use
"italians and romans" or "franks and the french".
if you are really interested, you can see if this
lecture was recorded: http://csua.org/u/6bv
although that may be a little hard to follow. --psb
\_ it's all greek to me.
\_ thankfully not, just skimming it was worth 20% of
my final grade in my ancient greece history class.
\_ It's all about power. Sure Jesus starts out talking about love,
peace, and God, but what happens if he attracts LOTS of followers?
Who knows what's going to happen? Revolt and seize Palastine? The
Romans dealt with it by knocking off those who they couldn't
control or couldn't trust. Those in power under the blessing of
the Romans did the same thing. Keep things nice, calm, and stable.
\_ Jesus did attract a lot of followers, and Christianity
eventually spread through the Roman Empire. On the other
hand those who advocated violent resistance against the
Romans (equally guilty are the Roman toadies) finally brought the
Roman legions to Jerusalem's gates not long after Jesus' time.
\_ Christians don't worship Jesus, they worship The Holy
Trinity.
\_ That is just a BS handwaving excuse to try
and disguise the fact that Christians worship
a dead human being and do not follow the First
Commandment. Christians pray to Christ, put
Roman legions to Jerusalem's gates not long after Jesus' time.
shrines of Christ in their temples and ask
Christ to save them. Trying to claim that they
do not "worship" Jesus is hogwash. At the very
least they hold up a dead man as equal to God.
\_ "One day, a Jewish guy was lamenting that his son had become a
Christian. The other one says, funny you should mention it. My son,
too. They decide to talk to God about it. God says: Funny you
should mention it." --Bob Alper, 59, Vermont rabbi
\_ is the quote trying to suggest that God is Jewish?
themselves differently? Same with Catholics vs. Christian vs.\
Jahov's witness vs. some other gangs vs. etc
\_ Do you like being stupid.
\_ Hmm. Two Jewish Guys. Talking to their God....
\_ I'm just confused with this Christian and Jew thing. Don't
they worship the same God? If they do, why do they label
themselves differently? Same with Catholics vs. Christian vs.
Jahov's witness vs. some other gangs vs. etc
\_ Yeah, Jews worship God. Christians worship a man.
Stop censoring this fuckhead. -goy
\_ Christians don't worship Jesus. They worship God and
revere Jesus as the son of God.
\_ If you haven't studied it, don't claim to know.
\_ Why do they all end their prayers with
"In Jesus name, Amen"?
\_ Because he's revered, duh. They pray to God
"Oh most merciful God..."
Christians, who twist anything to their
\_ Jews and Muslims manage to pray to God
own liking.
without sneaking some third person in there.
Why is that? Because they take God's
commandments seriously, unlike the
Christians, who twist everything to their
own liking. I mean look at this:
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/creed.html
Number 1 and number 2 contradict themselves.
The whole Christian religion is founded on
this schizophrenia. [formatd]
_/
The Nicene Creed was born out of a conference held to answer the
question of what exactly was the relationship of God and Jesus. Was
Jesus God taking human form? Was Jesus made by God to teach us? Was
he concieved? They wanted to agree on one version and settle
controversies. Nicea was basically a big compromise. They decided
that Jesus was not God, but was of the same being as God, which is
\_ Hmm... "God of God, Light of Light, True God
of True God.
\_ But there's "Jesus Christ, the Son of God
... being of one essence with the Father"
a bit weird. It's like saying they're part of the same thing. Kind
of like Jesus is an appendage of God, to get a bit anthropomorphic.
\_ The best way to understand the relationship between Christ and
God is to read what Jesus says about it in the Gospels.
Everything else is just people's interpretations of what Jesus
says.
\_ Jesus roolz, church droolz.
\_ He couldv'e written a man page or something. I hate when the
developers don't bother to document their shit.
\_ what do you mean? that's the official man page.
\_ No. That's a revision history.
\_ yea, like from beta to official release
\_ I think it's slightly inaccurate. You might want to read John
1. Most theologically orthodox Christian groups follow the
Apostles' Creed, which claims that Jesus was fully God, fully
human. -chaos
\_ The Nicene Creed is used by Catholics and, IIRC, most
Protestants, so it's fairly representative of the Christians
you'd find in America.
\_ Jesus Christ is True God and True Man. Catholics and
many other Christians believe this.
[so which is worse? people overwriting other people's stuff or motdedit
munging the order things are posted so they don't make sense anymore?] |
| 2004/3/1 [Reference/Religion] UID:12463 Activity:nil |
2/29 somewhere in here is definitive proof of God:
http://facts4god.faithweb.com/thelist.html |
| 2004/2/25-26 [Reference/Religion] UID:12400 Activity:high |
2/24 well, this proves it I guess....
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335345/fullcredits
\_ Proves what? That the film was made in Italy?
\_ That God exists, I reckon. I love that He gets third
billing. -phuqm
\_ where is this now?
\_ It does help explain why Romans weren't harsely judged...
\_ yes, that God exists of course... or that Mel Gibson is
the most arrogant film-maker on earth.
\_ Is that why he made himself into a crucified Jesus figure
at the end of Braveheart?
\_ They removed the reference. Do a search for "God" under IMDB's
people and it shows the artifact of Him being one of the writers
for TPotC.
people and it shows the artifact of Him being one of the writers
\_ Is that why he made himself into a crucified Jesus figure
at the end of Braveheart?
for TPotC.
\_ YES!! I succeeded... after coming across this I submitted
a correction to imdb and apparently this listened. -op
\_ Is that why he made himself into a crucified Jesus figure
\_ I don't see what you're talking about. It sounds like
the web page may have been revised? "Aiya!" indeed.
\_ they removed the reference... read 9 lines up.
\_ link:csua.org/u/668
It used to say Jesus, the Christ and now it says Jesus???
That is it?
\_ God is God and jesus is a prophet. Get your religion right.
at the end of Braveheart?
\_ Christ imagery is common in literature/movies. Cross
shapes are handy for stretching people out for
evisceration.
\_ Credited as writing the novel. It's a silly reference to the
Bible as source material.
\_ YES!! I succeeded... after coming across this I submitted
a correction to imdb and apparently they listened. The
system works people. -op
\_ if the purpose was to show an actor listed for Jesus, there are lots
of IMDB pages like this, e.g., http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0275434
\_ Aiya! Look down a little. See Novel? See Authors? Kids these
days. What did you score on the Verbal?
\_ I don't see what you're talking about. It sounds like
the web page may have been revised? "Aiya!" indeed.
\_ they removed the reference... read 9 lines up.
\_ link:csua.org/u/668
It used to say Jesus, the Christ and now it says Jesus???
That is it?
\_ God is God and jesus is a prophet. Get your religion right. |
| 2004/2/23-24 [Reference/Religion] UID:12368 Activity:high |
2/23 New Yorker review of Passion of Christ - note that this is a _film_
review people.
http://newyorker.com/critics/cinema/?040301crci_cinema
\_ "This is the most violent film I have ever seen." Roger Ebert
\_ is this really a review or more Gibson bashing?
\_ Its a film review. Inherently its one viewer's opinion.
\_ Hi, I recommend this site for a realistic perspective:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ThePassionoftheChrist-1129941
\_ So it's basically Sunday church for the Kill Bill crowd, yes?
How tempting.
\_ Kill Jesus. Vol 1.
\_ With an exclusive soundtrack featuring hit songs by your
\_ No, it's not a review. He complains that Gibson isn't showing the
good bits of Jesus' ministry, but that was never the scope of the
movie. It's like criticizing the Lord of the Rings for not showing
The Hobbit.
\_ must...supresss...rage...about...portrayal of Faramir's character.
\_ That's a legitimate criticism of the movie though. You
thought the adaptation of the character wasn't good, and the
changes in the movie from the events of the book change the
character. Gibson is only covering the last day of Jesus'
mortal life. He's *not* trying to cover the Sermon on the
Mount.
\_ nerd, you'll get over it. the rest of us can't even identify
the character.
\_ Yes, I'm a nerd. Nerds pick apart those movies like
crazy, and even though many of us like them, we get
pissed about some pretty little details. Those books
are pretty important to nerds, but not as important as the
bible is to christians. If they react the way nerds did
to the LOTR movies, that's probably a good sign actually.
Also, the reason you can't remember who Faramir is is that
they left out or ruined all of his character development
in the movie--that's the point.
\_ I can't identify most of the others either. It was
mostly a bunch of white guys in beards smacking the
bad guys with swords. To say that LOTR isn't quite as
\_ *laugh* are you _still_ recovering from abuse in
highschool? you're old enough to buy a girl if
that's what you need. if you pay her enough you
can even get her to tell all your friends she's
your girlfriend and not an oakland corner hooker.
mostly a bunch of white guys in beards smacking the
bad guys with swords. To say that LOTR isn't quite as
important to you as the bible is to Christians doesn't
paint you in the positive light you think it does.
important to you as the bible is to Christians doesn't
paint you in the positive light you think it does.
\_ Not being able to identify with something and calling
someone a nerd for being able to doesn't make them
nerds, it makes you an idiot. A hostile idiot to
boot, the kind that used to roam high school
playgrounds. You didn't grow up either, like most
of hostile high school idiots did. Sign your name,
idiot, I want to mock you some more in person.
-- ilyas
\_ woah! you had a playground at your highschool?
That rules.
drawn between TPOTC and Korn....
\_ Writing credits goes to...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0323689
favorite Christian rock band, Faith + 1!
\_ No, it's not a review. He complains that Gibson isn't showing the
good bits of Jesus' ministry, but that was never the scope of the
movie. It's like criticizing the Lord of the Rings for not showing
The Hobbit.
\_ Poor comparison. LOTR had a coherent plot. TPOTC keys on the
imagery of the blood sacrifice (the climax only). What's the
point? Nice people get killed every day by jerks.
\_ The point is to present the sacrifice as written. The context
drawn between TPOTC and Michael Moorcock's Arioch....
is the Gospels. Read them for the backstory, if you don't
know it already. The point is to look at this and say, "He
did this for us. Wow."
\_ I prefer this version of Jesus's life:
http://somethingpositive.net/sp03042002.shtml
\_ interesting contrasts between salon's review soundbites
(http://www.salon.com/ent/col/fix/2004/02/24/tues and
rotten tomatoes' (link above).
\_ 'The depictions in "The Passion," one of the cruellest movies in
the history of the cinema, are akin to the bloody Pop
representation of Jesus found in, say, a roadside shrine in
Mexico, where the addition of an Aztec sacrificial flourish makes
the passion a little more passionate.'
Now _that's_ an evocative review.
\_ Mm, mm, good! Blood for the Blood God!
\_ Hehehehe, we laugh, but there are tremendous parallels to be
drawn between TPOTC and Korn....
\_ Writing credits goes to...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0323689 |
| 2004/2/23-24 [Reference/Religion] UID:12363 Activity:nil |
2/23 Who is going to see Passion and why?
\_ I will go. Any movie which has Satan speak in Aramaic has
to be worth my time. -- ilyas
\_ kewl.. i'm going too :)
\_ Hmm. I was planning to wait for the DVD, but now I'm thinking
it would be fun to go wearing an upside-down cross and
eyeshadow. And kind of be a Satan fanboy. I wonder when the
licensed action figures and video games come out?
\_ I am still waiting for schindler's list action figures.
do you know when they will be coming out with those?
\_ Schindler's list slash-fiction
\_ Can I go with you, ilyas?
\_ Sure, come on down to LA. -- ilyas
\_ me. at first, i thought it's going to be another boring
christ movie, but after looking at its website, i thought
it could be interesting, and bring to life what was
described in the gospels, how it was really like, at least
mel's interpretation and imagination of it.
\_ I'm going to go see it so I can dismiss the trolls who post about
it (without having seen it) in the weeks to come.
\_ wow. how much time/money do you spend a year gearing up for
motd flame wars?
\_ It's probably worth watching for its historic value, regardless
of your religious views.
\_ I'll definitely watch it. But I would also watch things like
the 10 Commandments, a movie on the life of Buddha or Mohammed
or the Dalai Lama
\_ Yay, "Little Buddha" and "Seven Years in Tibet"! Hey, does
"Bulletproof Monk" count?
\_ I may go because I look forward to being pissed off at Mel Gibson.
Part of me also wants it to be very controversial so we can rip it
apart and show what a crock all this is.
\_ DVD will be great, should include all the hoopla and
directing and lightning strikes.. |
| 2004/2/19 [Reference/Religion] UID:12306 Activity:nil |
2/18 http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/morality_play.htm My score was 51%, meaning I am a moral relativist compared to most people. But I already knew that. \_ 84%. -- ilyas \_ Ah, the truth comes out, Ilya! Funny, I NEVER would have guessed you would have scored so HIGH. No, you? NAHHHH. I got %41 by the way, which I guess just proves once again how much of a Heathen I am. --lye \_ You are not a heathen, your beliefs are just so much more ... flaccid. -- ilyas \_ Better than my beliefs being rigid. Natch! --lye \_ 75% -- I'm probably similar to those guys below but I think there are some cases of "not helping" people that would be wrong. I think the ones where you fail to notify authorities of crimes has some element of wrongness. You'd be allowing others to maybe come to harm. Ditto the one where you notice a machine will hurt someone. Then I allow for the case where if someone was in severe need and you could help at almost no effort, then you'd be an asshole not to. That's not to say that most street people are really in severe need, or that my "little cost" would actually help them. But if someone was lying there bleeding and I had a cell phone I think it would be wrong not to call the police or something. I guess it's hard to separate the moral obligation from the desire. But I look at the moral code as what I'd expect from others in my community. So I think it's ok to define some minimal level of helping that one is obligated to do. (There's also the biblical example where the Moses or someone said not to harm non-Jews, but if one was like stuck in a well, Jews shouldn't lower a rope (etc.). To me that's immoral. Also, seeing someone drop a wallet, I think it's immoral to just take it with no effort to return it. Actually though, the "helping others" aspect is not what that score measures, but rather the degree to which you (don't) vary your principles according to various factors such as relatedness. \_ never heard of this not lowering rope for non-jew thing. are you sure it's a biblical example. in fact it's directly opposite to what jesus teaches in the parable of the good samaritan. \_ 92%. i drew a strong distinction between what i would do and and what i am morally obligated to do. \_ Can you make sure the answer review at the bottom matches what you chose? 92% is the score you get when you close your browser, and visit the last .cgi Success page directly. The script in this case determines all your answers were the first choice for each question. \_ i did review the answers, and they were logged correctly. i take moral obligations seriously, and i try to be consistent in their application. ultimately, i do not believe i have a moral obligation to help others. if i do help, i do because i wish to and not because i have to. \_ Same theme for me. Not sure why there is a discrepancy between our scores. I think maybe they vary the questions a little between each run. -- ilyas \_ to be honest, i don't even know why i was docked the 8%. i thought i was quite perfectly consistent. \_ obtw, i did not choose the first alternative for all my answers. so it is quite possible to answer 'no' quite often and still get a 92%. \_ 55%, though the interesting thing I found was that I am apparently a traitor to my gender. -- ulysses \_ 69% \_ That means you're orally relative. \- that's pretty funny. not as good as "moaning becomes elektra" but pretty funny. 46% btw. --psb \_ The questions are stupid. As christians, we are obliged to help those in need. However, we also need to know our abilities and where they are most useful and most in need, and allocate our resources accordingly. We sometimes are also obliged to stop evil things from continuing. The above two principles should be enough for all those silly questions. \_ Here is what bothers me about Christians. Given their belief system, unless you go off like the hardcore medieval saints like St. Francis, you are basically a hypocrite. I wouldn't be able to live with myself as a Christian, I would either rethink my beliefs or give away all possessions and go help lepers somewhere. If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't really call myself a Christian. -- ilyas \_ You don't need to go back to medieval times, there are many doing it this very day and age. However, to answer your question, yes, Christians should not live extra- vagantly. However, helping those in need is an ongoing life-long thing. Do make sure you can take care of the needs of your wife and kids, and that they are not starving or dropping out of school or becoming drug addicts. Otherwise, you would need others to take care of you instead of you taking care of others. That would not do anyone good. However, yes, Christians should always place the Lord above worldly possessions. If one day the Lord says to give away all your possesions to the poor and follow the Lord, one should be ready to do it. I am not saying it's easy, and many Christians will not be able to do it, but it is what one should strive for. \_ I don't have the will to be a Christian. I would rather be a good agnostic than a bad Christian. -- ilyas \_ That's your choice. But even for Christians it's not through the power of will, but through salvation and becoming one with Christ. It should be full of joy! \_ God won't kill your dragons for you. -- ilyas \_ Yes he does. Being a good agnostic, on the other hand, is a difficult job. \_ I think we have some fundamental differences on the nature of God. As the old russian seminary school joke goes "even God cannot beat an ace with a deuce." Similarly, God can't beat a dunce into an ace. -- ilyas \_ no, God cannot beat an ace with deuce, but he keeps getting aces last time I tried playing poker with him. and yes, he unceasingly beat dunces into aces too, through christ. |
| 2004/2/18 [Reference/Religion] UID:29819 Activity:nil |
2/17 Mel Gibson - Jesus freak = still attractive?
\_ "still"?!
\_ Why does someone else's beliefs offend you so much? He doesn't
run around shoving them in anyone's face. He isn't trying to get
judges to mandate what elected officials won't do. He is a
religious man who made a movie that you're not required to see.
Before you start in with the ad hominen, I'm a Jew, who thinks
Mel's movie is anti-semitic trash from what I understand of it but
if that's how he wants to spend his money, he's welcome to. I won't
support it with my open wallet but I won't call him a freak either.
\_ Based on past experience, I'd rather not say any movie is
anti-whatever until I see it for myself. Not that I care
about this movie--it sounds pretty boring--but if you do
care, I say go see it, then judge for yourself.
\_ Well, hell, since you've opened the troll-gate, what about it
(from what you've heard) makes you think it's anti-semitic? And
how is it more anti-semitic than the Passion Plays that the
Catholic Church sponsors around Easter?
\_ http://tinyurl.com/244u4 |
| 2004/2/9 [Reference/Religion] UID:12176 Activity:moderate |
2/9 Serious question (any trollish responses will be deleted): I watched
"Nature" on PBS last night. It was an episode on diamonds. They
mentioned that Hasidic Jews dominated the diamond business, from
New York to Antwerp. Showed a lot of Hasidic Jews cutting diamonds
and dealing diamonds, etc. Anybody know how this business became
this way? Thanks.
\_ If i see you delete one response, I'll kill your whole fucking
thread, you asshole censor.
\_ Go read the Elders of Zion and the Arab media and you'll have a full
and complete understanding of this and other Jewish Conspiracies.
\_ This is a shot in the dark but perhaps it grew out of Jews running
Europe's banking system in the past because of biblical prohibitions
against usury. They were probably the best people at assessing and
guarding jewelery. Notice the eytmology.
\_ Oh! Oh! He censored a response! Better delete the whole thread now
big man! |
| 2004/1/26 [Reference/Religion] UID:11935 Activity:high |
1/25 How come a lot of Muslim countries hate America? I mean, what is it
we did that offended them?
\_ Interesting theory (not mine): Arab culture, such as it is, grew
up in the last 300 years as primarily a trading one, as opposed to
western manufacturing/innovating cultures. Combine this with a
religion which has never undergone a serious widespread reformation
or set of challenges, and you have the dangerous mix of a large,
poor class of uneducated people and a very conservative, stick-in-
the-mud clergy. It's easy to whip people up against a simplistic
the-mud clerggy. It's easy to whip people up against a simplistic
enemy (read 1984?) especially if your religion has the grass roots
decentralized nature of islam. Voila, instant foe. Could happen
anywhere with those criteria. What I'd like to know is why so many
Indonesian and Malay muslims I've spoken to think Arabs are such
terrible boors. -John
\_ Because Indonesians and Malays have a deeper culture that pre-
dates their religion. They have plenty of other things to
identify themselves with. Outside of Egypt, the Arabs don't
because all they can point to in their past is the Crusades
which isn't much to hang an entire culture's hat on.
\_ What I want to know is why there was such a regression.
In the middle ages, the arabs had a _wonderful_ culture, we
got a lot of mathematics, poetry, and other science from them.
Are we borrowing anything from the Arabs now? (It's not a
rhetorical question, I really want to know).
Not to mention the Ottomans, the first successful
multicultural state (of course it could be argued the Ottoman
Empire was really a secular state, nor was it an arab state).
Something happened between then and now, and I don't know
terrible boors. -John
what it is. -- ilyas
\_ Islam happened in a big way. When your entire educational
system turns into nothing more than studying the Koran it
isn't that hard to see how your people could be passed
over. Big time slavery and the suppression of women
doesn't help either but I doubt those are major causes.
\_ Countries don't hate anything or anyone. People do. Governments
are distinct entities from the people in each country. Before you
ask why X hates Y, you must decide which X and Y you're talking
about. Once you have answered that, any of the following motd
answers might be partially or fully correct.
\_ US arrogance? Support of Israel?
\_ There was a time when Muslim countries were rational, even trying
to be democratic. But we turned against them, establish Israel
at the expense of Palestinian. We supported 1967 war, and we
overthrown Iran's democratic government for some puppet mainly
for the oil. These series of events made Muslim countries decided
that democracy or human right or what not, ultimately, imperialism
trumpt all other western preaches. It is then Muslim countries
turned Islam Fundamentalism for solution, as support of western
values clearly didn't work.
\_ Whoa. Back up. Insert the parts about the rise of Arab
Nationalism and the oppressive right-wing regimes supported by
the West to oppose the Soviets, and you'll be a lot closer to
bringing your comments in line with the truth. Remember that
the people in many Islamic countries would love to see a
marriage between the democratic ideals of the West and the
moral resolve of Islam (e.g., Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Malaysia, and
Indonesia).
\_ ok, I was talking abou ARABS ISLAM. So, from that, you need
to drop Turkey, Iran, Malaysia and Indonesia.
\_ Are you completely insane? Do you know any actual history, or
just the sympathetic Palestinian line?
\_ You forgot "Why do you hate America?"
\_ And both of you guys forgot true history, too.
\_ jealousy
\_ The Imams would lose power if the contries democratized/secularized,
hence they keep their position of power by focusing the poeples'
hate on us. The governments do the same thing by pointing to the
'plight of the Palestinians' to distract the populace from the
massive human rights violations in their own countries. |
| 2004/1/23-24 [Reference/Religion] UID:11914 Activity:high |
1/23 I'm not trolling, I'm really curious:
What is the reason given by Christians that human life or a soul or
whatever happens at conception, and not later, such as late brain
development or birth? It's sure not in the bible...
\_ Jeremiah 1:5. "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart"
\_ That kind of implies you have a soul before you're even concieved.
\_ That's why the Church says condoms are bad?
\_ too complicated to explain here on the motd. But that's
not the reason.
\_ That's why onanism is a sin.
\_ Is it a sin if, instead of tossing your sperm on the ground
to die in cold, dry misery, you give it a nice, warm home
in someone's stomach?
\_ But sperm die on their own anyway. And the sin of Onan was
that he was denying his brother an 'heir' out of spite.
\_ That's how I see it too, but many have interpreted it
as the act of wasting your seed outside a vagina.
\_ And Mormons believe that the soul preexists our physical
existence. When I've talked with traditional Christians about
interpretation of that passage, they respond by saying that it
just means that since God knows everything, including the
future, he could know a future-existing person before he was
born. -emarkp
\_ So you exist before you're concieved, and if a baby is
concieved, it's God's will. And if they're not concieved
that's also God's will, but if they're concieved but then
aborted, it *wasn't* God's will? That reminds me of how
parents will say stuff like "My son is so smart" and then
turn around and say "Look what your son did!"
\_ Hey, I'm just reporting what people have told me. -emarkp
\_ From God's perspective, God knows what happens.
But from our human perspective, we still have
free will. It's still our choice. God doesn't
force us to choose good or evil. It's free will.
\_ Pre-ordained free-will. Cool paradox.
\_ Yeah, free will is so pesky..
\_ Depending on your philosophical axioms, free will may or
\_ Depending on your philisophical axioms, free will may or
may not be contravened by foreknowledge. -emarkp
\_ Let's send a rover to the planet Kolob!
\_ Kolob is a star, not a planet. Get better sources.
-emarkp
\_ Sorry, planet near the star Kolob.
\_ We don't know if there are any planets near the
star Kolob. -emarkp
\_ I'll stop reading Bruce McConkie then.
\_ Well, keep in mind he presents his opinion as
his opinion. However, on rereading, you can
read Kolob to be a planet or a star. My bad.
star Kolob. -emarkp
\_ I'll stop reading Bruce McConkie then.
-emarkp
\_ what's your definition of a traditional Christian?
\_ Typically I mean non-Restorationist Christians.
Catholics and Protestants mostly. I haven't had much
interaction with Orthodox faiths. Granted, I don't have
-emarkp
a full survey of those faiths, but have discussed this
point with members of many of them. -emarkp
point with members of many of them. -emarkp
\_ http://tinyurl.com/2tb77
\_ Either way, if it has a soul, souls can't die. So no problem. "Go
directly to heaven. Do not pass go, do not collect $200."
\_ but they haven't been baptized yet, so maybe they won't
go to heaven.
\_ that God, he's a vengeful one. he'll throw you out on a
technicality.
\_ not necessarily. we can't say for sure what he'll do.
but why risk the salvation of souls?
\_ I thought only a hundred odd thousand souls were
getting into heaven. And they've already been chosen,
since god is all-present and fore-knowing. And that
\_ something I heard from some jehovah's witnesses.
I'm paraphrasing... and he's pretty ironic, so
who knows what he actually believes.
go to heaven.
\_ that God, he's a vengeful one. he'll throw you out on a
technicality.
\_ not necessarily. we can't say for sure what he'll do.
but why risk the salvation of souls?
Prince is one of them.
Damn. I'm going to be stuck burning in hell and he's
going to be up in heaven rocking out all the ladies.
\_ Why do you think that Christianity
(a minority religion on this planet)
is the right bet?
\_ did it come from one of his songs or is that
one of his "beliefs"?
\_ something I heard from some jehovah's witnesses.
I'm paraphrasing... and he's pretty ironic, so
who knows what he actually believes.
\_ Yeah, for all we know you're damned unless you die
\_ Yeah, for all we know you're damned unless you die
wearing a green top hat. I always wear one.
wearing a green top hat. I always wear one.
\_ believe what you want, but we'll all know the
\_ http://www.op.org/steinkerchner/fenwick/cccbaptism.html
\_ believe what you want, but we'll all know the
answers when we die, and we'll have all eternity
to contemplate what we could have done differently
\_ If they're Catholic, they get to wait in Limbo.
\_ wait for what?
answers when we die, and we'll have all eternity
to contemplate what we could have done differently
\_ only if there is an eternal afterlife.
\_ are you a gambling man/woman?
Do you want to bet on your eternity?
\_ Why do you think that Christianity
(a minority religion on this planet)
is the right bet?
\_ if "not taking the chance" is the core
of your faith and beliefs then it
seems unlikely that you're going
anyplace other than Hell. I suspect
"pragmatic faith" is not the route
to Heaven.
\_ If they're Catholic, they get to wait in Limbo.
\_ wait for what?
\_ until their souls are cleansed and they can then go
to Heaven.
\_ http://www.op.org/steinkerchner/fenwick/cccbaptism.html
\_ just wait. nothing in particular.
\_ wait for all eternity then.
\_ Pretty much:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm
\_ Faith and logic/reason. |
| 2004/1/15-16 [Computer/SW/Apps, Reference/Religion] UID:11796 Activity:nil |
1/14 The Bible as IRC chatlog
http://www.ircbible.destrukto-theater.nl |
| 2003/12/25-26 [Reference/Religion] UID:11589 Activity:nil |
12/24 Your boy Dean is now a fundamentalist Christian! It's so great how
he can be whatever he needs to be instantly for any audience. The
guy is the ultimate chameleon candidate. BTW, anyone have any idea
what he's trying to hide in his sealed Vermont records?
link:csua.org/u/5dh from http://boston.com
\_ Ah, so "fundamentalist" means believing in Jesus and God and going
to church occasionally. Ok, whatever, buddy.
\_ I didn't bother reading that but he always did talk about being
Christian in candidate Q&A's etc. I doubt you'll find him thumping
bibles etc.
\_ If you read the link you'd see his latest transformation into
bible thumper and according to his own quotes in the link which
you failed to read he has kept his religion and personal life
quiet and personal until now. |
| 2003/12/10 [Reference/Religion] UID:11392 Activity:high |
12/10 If you're following the news, you know that the major religions
differ in their interpretation of the holy books. For example, one
way to interpret God's will is that you should love your neighbor.
An alternate reading of the holy books might lead you to rig a
donkey cart with small mortar rockets and aim it at a hotel full of
infidels. In summary, po-tay-to, poh-tah-to.
\_ They say to love your fellow clan neighbors. As for Others, you
can slaughter them up and down the Jordan, cuz his name is The Lord!
\_ Wait...you mean, organized religion is bunk? Holy shit!!! What
a fucking revelation, dude! Like, pass the bong and stuff.
\_ The Holy Books are full of garbage. Go East young man. The problems
of class warfare, clan warfare, and hunger predate judeo-christian
philosophy by a LONG TIME. Your Holy Books are like the dumbed-down
copy of Dianetics you see in the checkout line.
\_ dumbed down? dumbed down? insult christianity and judaism all
you want, but if you're going to say that they're dumber than
scientology that's just too much. At least mohammed had a
good command of his own language and some leadership skill.
Hubbard was just a two bit con man. And also, there are some
good and some bad people in the Big Three western religions,
whereas I've never met a scientologist who wasn't crazy.
Read the Turn of the Wheel, by Phillip K. Dick.
\_ Judaism is very very old. Also, the important bits of Judaism
are not written down and are only passed down orally. -- jew |
| 2003/12/5 [Reference/Religion] UID:11321 Activity:nil |
12/4 I've always found it ironic that anti-god enviormentalist types
sound so darn religious.
http://csua.org/u/55a
\_ Dude, don't be so damn dumb. A lot of environmentalists are
religious. In fact, many of the pioneering environmentalists
went out of their way to _justify_ their beliefs with religion.
Not everyone fits into a neat little box like you want them to.
\_ No! NOOOO! Do not you bring logic or facts into this!
\_ God hates the environment. He also hates poor people. Poor people
are poor because God is angry with them, like AIDS people.
\_ what does anti-god, environmentalist, and religion has anything
to do with each other? |
| 2003/12/4 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:11318 Activity:high |
12/4 Maine teacher sues over school board curriculum that prevents teaching
about non-Christian civilizations and religions, e.g. ancient Greece:
http://www.pressherald.com/news/state/031204teachersues.shtml
\_ Maine SAD1's Superintendent speaks out on the charges:
http://www.sad1.k12.me.us/supt-statement.pdf
To wit, 7th and 8th grade curriculum focuses on European and
US History, while World History is relegated to 9th grade. Cole
teaches middle school. Supe claims that Cole is welcome to
broach non-Christian topics so long as they apply to topics set
aside for each grade.
\_ Thanks for the response. I wouldn't say this settles it, though.
Time will tell but if the charges are as baseless as the
superintendent seems to believe, the lawsuit will be dismissed
out of hand. For the teacher to go through so much trouble,
there may very well be something going on here that we don't
yet know about. It is true that more and more school boards
across the country are controlled by fundamentalist groups, and
are using their position to dictate curriculum.
\_ what will be ironic and sad is if the conservative agendas
of school choice and religion in school are both
of school choice and religion in the school are both
idiot kids who were put in schools with a medieval
curriculum by their barbarian parents. I think this
may well be where we are heading.
\_ So the ancient Greeks, Romans, Vikings, Celts, etc. were not in
Europe? How about native American cultures in the USA?
yet know about.
pushed to the point where there is a vast underclass of
idiot kids who were put in schools with a midaeval
curriculum by their barbarian parents. |
| 2003/11/17-18 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:29638 Activity:high |
11/17 Top US administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, dismissed the
new Saddam message as "a voice from the wilderness". Doesn't
Paul Bremer realize that the phrase is usually used to refer
to John the Baptist and prophesies of the coming of Jesus
the Messiah? Are Neocons all fake Christians?
(restored, unfortunately the followups were lost)
\_ hi troll!
\_ Ok, I'll bite--JtB got his head cut off, his boss got nailed to a
telephone pole, their followers got fed to giant cats by effeminate
Italians in dresses. Case in point, we did a Bonnie & Clyde on
Uday and Qusay, the little thugs, so now there's only dad left to
go. What exactly is your point? -John
\_ Come to think of it, Bush Jr. is about as cartoonish as
Nero the Roman Emperor.
\_ Come to think of it, Bush Jr. is as cartoonish as Nero the
Christian killing Roman Emperor. And that's about where
your silly analogy ends.
\_ Open the eyes of Christians to the true colors of the neocon
ideologues. |
| 2003/11/16 [Reference/Religion] UID:11093 Activity:nil |
11/15 I read that Jesus was a Jew. Can anyone explain this? I don't
know much about religion. TIA.
\_ Christ is accepted by Christians as the first coming of
the Messiah, the son of God. The Jews view him as
another prophet (eg. Abraham), not the son of God. The
\_ Um, no. The Muslims accept him as a prophet, but most Jews
accept him as a rabbi, not a prophet (and neither the Muslims or
Jews accept him on equal footing with Abraham).
Jews (and Romans) had Christ crucified because his doctrine
\_ Umm, no. The Jews did not crucify Christ. This is FUD used to
justify anti-semitism.
\_ What you say is true, but misleading. The Jews did not
crucify Christ, the Romans did, but they were carrying
out Jewish law and will when they crucified Xt. The crime
Xt was crucified for was blasphemy, a crime in Jewish,
not Roman, law. See Matthew 26-27. I do agree that this,
unfortunately and unfairly, has been used to justify
anti-semitism.
\_ what you say is true but misleading. Jesus' death is far
more complicated than Pilate simply following Jewish law.
it would take hours to explain in person. a single
passage in M26-27 doesn't cut it. life is never that
simple. the reality is that Jesus was asking for it
starting with the donkey ride into the city which was a
known prophecy for the Coming and getting under the skin
of every powerful person he came across and always doing
or saying the thing that was most likely to get him
killed right up to his death. he could've left the city
at any time in the week before his death but didn't,
even though a child could've seen the consequences of his
actions. or we could just say the Jews killed Jesus and
all hate the Jews and be done with it. that's the easy
way out.
\_ Fair enough. My main point is that it's not effective
to say the original statement is false because
it has been used to justify anti-semitism. The
original statement has some truth to it (though,
as you point it it is much more complicated), and
it has unfairly been used to justify anti-semitism.
\_ The Jews chose between Christ and
and a thief, the chose to crucifiy Christ. No
need to sugar-coat it or make excuses.
\_ christ christ christ christ fuck fuck fuck fuck
maybe you should take a long hard look at your
dumbass faith. do you really think your god cares
if you post his name to the motd? does that actually
make sense to you?
\_ What are you talking about? I'm not Christian.
\_ You pathetic abject atheist. Nothing but
a shell of hedonistic addictions. Sorry,
but the West you live in is the living
embodiment of monotheistic, primarily
Christian, dogma. The West has prospered
because of these tenets, not in spite of
them. But of course you are too smart...
and claim was heretical in their view. In the very early
days of Christianity only Jews were allowed to convert
Christianity, however after Jesus's death the apostles
spread the gospels to gentiles.
He was viewed by his non-believing contemparies as
a Jewish prophet.
\_ Before Christ, the Jews and the Christians were one.
The word of God was with the Jewish people. Jesus Christ
was born practicing the Jewish religion. Jesus was even
circumcised. Christ went to the temples, read scriptures,
and was a loyal Jew, because the word of God was with the
Jewish people, passed down through Abraham (today's Jews
and today's Christians both value Abraham, Moses and others
very much). Later, after Christ's death, some Jews didn't
believe Christ was the Messiah. However, many (including
non-Jews, the Gentiles) converted. The people who converted
and believed that Christ was the Messiah are called Christians.
In the Christian Bible, the "Old Testament" and the Jewish
Holy Books are virtually identical.
\_ The New Testament is actually very short, and you could read just the
Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) and the book of Acts pretty
quickly. There are free copies of it online and just about anyone
can give you a hardcopy free. |
| 2003/10/29 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10833 Activity:moderate |
10/29 http://www.pmw.org.il/new/tv.html In particular: http://www.isratv.com/video/3c.asx http://www.isratv.com/video/2b.asx http://www.isratv.com/video/2a.asx \_ What is the point of posting this stuff on the motd? If you're in neee of an intelligent discussion, then you must know there are much better places. And if you just want another flamewar...how utterly boring and predictable. The csua motd truly has sunk to new depths of stupidity. \_ oh yeah, where? in discussion groups on the net at large there is a dominant ethos and everyone else is a troll or heckler. on the motd there is no dominant ethos. I've learned *a lot* from being opened up to ways of thinking different from my own on the motd that I would never have learned from participating in some one-sided love fest on a discussion board where i agree with everyone. If you haven't learned anything from those who you disagree with, it's your loss. \_ Oh, its the "I've-learned-a-lot-from-the-motd-guy." You should setup housekeeping with "UCLA-CS-guy" and "freeper-guy" and the ChiCom troll and make babies. \_ This is Zionist propaganda - Jews control the world!! Actually I've told by expat Syrians, Armenians, etc. that many of the suicide bombers have mental problems and are heavily recruited by PLO, Hamas etc. because of their vulnerability. \_ Uhm... Armenians? How did they show up on this thread? \_ Well they do border Iran and Turkey. |
| 2003/10/26-27 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10795 Activity:high |
10/25 http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/26/Columns/Anti_Semitism_s_globa.shtml So if Jews control the world, why didn't I get the memo? I want to know where to signup for my piece. I'd like something with a beach and friendly natives to keep the drinks flowing and the food fresh. Thanks! --Salary slave Jew who stood in the wrong line \_ you lose. you are not really one of the 12 tribes. \_ I don't think you understand how it works. EVERYONE who was born of a jewish mother is a descendant of the 12 tribes. Now most people don't KNOW what tribe they belong to... but that's a different story. -- Jew \_ does that count for mothers who converted too? \_ no because she's definitely not one of the 12 tribes. if she can prove a connection to starbuck, apollo, or lorne greene then she can appeal to the elders of zion. \_ So Sammy Davis Jr isn't a chosen one? \_ Hey I'm totally from one of the 12 tribes. None of this lost battlestar galactica 13th tribe funny business for me! I just want my piece of the world! Is one small beach and some friendly natives so much to ask when the rest of my people are running the whole world? --op \_ Sorry, we don't have your piece of the world. You are asking the wrong people. asking the wrong people. And thanks for your insulting patronization of us natives. \_ I think Mahathir is still pissed that George Soros screwed his country during the Asian financial crisis. \_ if your country got fucked half as hard, you would of tossing nuclear warheads instead of just bitching about Jews |
| 2003/10/21 [Reference/Religion] UID:29584 Activity:nil |
10/20 To the "athiest" who wants an honest response from a Christian
regarding religion and faith:
Are you an athiest? or are you searching? I believe that
determining whether there is a Creator can be done through reason.
\_ I'm glad you have faith in that assertion, because there's
no other way to establish it!
Now to determine God's nature, or whether Jesus Christ is God
requires some faith. For those who are searching, good for you.
Even though I am a Christian, go ahead and do look at the other
religions. See what makes them tick, and try to understand each.
Of course, since I have faith that Jesus Christ is God, I would
like to introduce you to the Faith. You may accept it. You may
reject it. It is up to you what to do with that information.
I do hope that you do look at Christianity with an open mind,
even if you do look at other Religions. We can discuss by
email if you wish.
\_ Unfortunately, Christianity and imperalism are inseperable.
Even today, I can see elements of White Man's Burden when I
look at these missionaries and their mindsets, even though
Christanity's orgin has nothing to do with caucasian nor
race. Instead of focusing on things like creation of Universe,
try to look at the not-so-gorious aspect of history, i.e.
time between fall of Roman Empire and 1500 A.D. Until you
understand why people hate Christians, don't try to convince
them to join your camp.
\_ are you the same person discussing way down below or
a different person?
\_ It's not me, that's for sure. -- agnostic (weak atheist)
\_ I encourage you to keep on searching among
the different religions. I do hope you get
a good representative to represent Christianity.
There are many different "Christian" categories too
such as Catholicism and different Protestant sects.
And even among them, more liberal, or conservative
members.
\_ and, of course, they're each the One True Way.
\_ Christians do look at the creation of the Universe. Very
definitely. It shows God the Creator. Jews believe that
the Messiah is still coming. As for Christians, they
believe the entire time is part of God's salvation history.
Jesus Christ is but one part of the entire truth, IMHO.
\_ That's kinda a moot point, unless you're talking about
Catholics. Most Christian religions believe that was
a time of apostacy, when the church was corrupt and the
truth could not be taught.
\_ I agree. as an athiest, i view protestant religions as
evil idiocy and catholicism as an evil cult. that's
an important difference.
\_ are you trying to create some devisiveness between
Catholics and Protestants?
\_ Best. Oblivious-to-the-obvious. Troll. EVER.
\_ So how do you explain pre-Christian Roman imperialism,
or Chinese imperialism, etc. ?
\_ The statement "Xianity and imperialism are inseparable"
would be better phrased "Xianity implies imperialism."
The proof that the inverse is not necessarily true is
left to the reader.
\_ What you have, is at best, a weak correlation.
Early Christianity flourished under Rome's prosecution
Christianity in Korea flourished under Japan's (Shinto)
rule. Pressures from British missionaries and churches
were key to ending the opium trade in China (against
British business interest). Pre-Islamic expansion
Christianity in Africa has nothing to do with
imperialism. Imperialism deeply affected Asia, Africa
and the Americas, but thhe only place were I see a
significant corelation is the Americas, and the
Filipines.
\_ ObTroll: Rome and Japan were merely fighting the
imperialistic infection of Xianity in their
respective spheres of influence. That Xianity
was viral and grassroots in these cases changes
nothing about the imperialistic dreams of its
proponents-- they were simply far-sighted in their
ambitions to bring about the Kingdom of God.
\_ You actually think that the motive of the Dutch
and British East India Companies is to bring about
the Kingdom of God? Ha, what a joke.
\_ You actually believe that Japan killed tens of
millions of Chinese, Koreans, etc. to preempt
Christianity?
\_ Pressures from British missionaries and churches
were key to ending the opium trade in China? I
thought the monarch was the head of the church there.
\_ Ah, but am I permitted to reject your god? Christian sects are
rooted in evangelizing. It is not enough that they are Christians,
everyone must be. They must be converted to the Christian god.
Some people really find that irritating.
\_ Yes, you can reject God. But duh, of course we're going to
share our relationship with God. It's not relativism.
It's what we think is true. |
| 2003/10/21-22 [Reference/Religion] UID:10717 Activity:nil |
10/21 Mohammed Rosenberg was here. |
| 2003/10/21 [Reference/Religion] UID:10709 Activity:high |
10/20 To the "athiest" who wants an honest response from a Christian
regarding religion and faith:
Are you an athiest? or are you searching? I believe that
determining whether there is a Creator can be done through reason.
Now to determine God's nature, or whether Jesus Christ is God
requires some faith. For those who are searching, good for you.
Even though I am a Christian, go ahead and do look at the other
religions. See what makes them tick, and try to understand each.
Of course, since I have faith that Jesus Christ is God, I would
like to introduce you to the Faith. You may accept it. You may
reject it. It is up to you what to do with that information.
I do hope that you do look at Christianity with an open mind,
even if you do look at other Religions. We can discuss by
email if you wish.
\_ I'm glad you have faith in that assertion, because there's
no other way to establish it!
Now to determine God's nature, or whether Jesus Christ is God
requires some faith. For those who are searching, good for you.
Even though I am a Christian, go ahead and do look at the other
religions. See what makes them tick, and try to understand each.
Of course, since I have faith that Jesus Christ is God, I would
like to introduce you to the Faith. You may accept it. You may
reject it. It is up to you what to do with that information.
I do hope that you do look at Christianity with an open mind,
even if you do look at other Religions. We can discuss by
email if you wish.
\_ Unfortunately, Christianity and imperalism are inseperable.
Even today, I can see elements of White Man's Burden when I
look at these missionaries and their mindsets, even though
Christanity's orgin has nothing to do with caucasian nor
race. Instead of focusing on things like creation of Universe,
try to look at the not-so-gorious aspect of history, i.e.
time between fall of Roman Empire and 1500 A.D. Until you
understand why people hate Christians, don't try to convince
them to join your camp.
\_ are you the same person discussing way down below or
a different person?
\_ It's not me, that's for sure. -- agnostic (weak atheist)
\_ I encourage you to keep on searching among
the different religions. I do hope you get
a good representative to represent Christianity.
There are many different "Christian" categories too
such as Catholicism and different Protestant sects.
And even among them, more liberal, or conservative
members.
\_ and, of course, they're each the One True Way.
\_ Christians do look at the creation of the Universe. Very
definitely. It shows God the Creator. Jews believe that
the Messiah is still coming. As for Christians, they
believe the entire time is part of God's salvation history.
Jesus Christ is but one part of the entire truth, IMHO.
\_ That's kinda a moot point, unless you're talking about
Catholics. Most Christian religions believe that was
a time of apostacy, when the church was corrupt and the
truth could not be taught.
\_ I agree. as an athiest, i view protestant religions as
evil idiocy and catholicism as an evil cult. that's
an important difference.
\_ are you trying to create some devisiveness between
Catholics and Protestants?
\_ Best. Oblivious-to-the-obvious. Troll. EVER.
\_ So how do you explain pre-Christian Roman imperialism,
or Chinese imperialism, etc. ?
\_ The statement "Xianity and imperialism are inseparable"
would be better phrased "Xianity implies imperialism."
The proof that the inverse is not necessarily true is
left to the reader.
\_ What you have, is at best, a weak correlation.
Early Christianity flourished under Rome's prosecution
Christianity in Korea flourished under Japan's (Shinto)
rule. Pressures from British missionaries and churches
were key to ending the opium trade in China (against
British business interest). Pre-Islamic expansion
Christianity in Africa has nothing to do with
imperialism. Imperialism deeply affected Asia, Africa
and the Americas, but thhe only place were I see a
significant corelation is the Americas, and the
Filipines.
\_ ObTroll: Rome and Japan were merely fighting the
imperialistic infection of Xianity in their
respective spheres of influence. That Xianity
was viral and grassroots in these cases changes
nothing about the imperialistic dreams of its
proponents-- they were simply far-sighted in their
ambitions to bring about the Kingdom of God.
\_ You actually think that the motive of the Dutch
and British East India Companies is to bring about
the Kingdom of God? Ha, what a joke.
\_ You actually believe that Japan killed tens of
millions of Chinese, Koreans, etc. to preempt
Christianity?
\_ Ah, but am I permitted to reject your god? Christian sects are
rooted in evangelizing. It is not enough that they are Christians,
everyone must be. They must be converted to the Christian god.
Some people really find that irritating.
\_ Yes, you can reject God. But duh, of course we're going to
share our relationship with God. It's not relativism.
It's what we think is true. |
| 2003/10/20-21 [Reference/Religion] UID:10694 Activity:high |
10/19 Has anyone ever heard of "The Landmark Forum"? My friend has strongly
recommended that I attend their classes. I have heard of mostly good
things about it. However, I think they might be bias. Anyone here
has any experiences and/or comments?
\_ I have had, at current count, six of my friends go through Landmark
or one of its equivalents. My conclusion is that it's "mostly
harmless". They've all gone through the same stage of intense
enthusiasm followed about a year or two later by retrospection. I
think it is very cult-ish and their focus on parents is monocultural
hocum but it did really help some of my more stressed our friends
find a kind of grip on everyday life and made them easier to hang
around with. -- ulysses
\_ Before or after you clubbed them in the head a few times?
\_ After. --ulysses
\_ http://www.100megsfree4.com/apostate
\_ It's just "est", repackaged under a different name. - danh
\_ est. 70s-80s era self help movement with odd cultish
aspects. The founder fled the country and then his
brother took over and renamed it 'The Landmark Forum'.
I remember reading about a lot of Microsoft employees
who were into it which made me happy. go read
http://skepdic.com/est.html - danh
\_ Eastern Standard Time?
\_ Electric Shock Therapy!
\_ The father of a girl I dated was a speaker for this and really
into it... it always seemed like a bit of a crock to me... I
found this to be an interesting account of one session: (albeit
from a jesus freak)
http://tektonics.org/est.html
btw, her father's name was "Alan Cahn" (mentioned in the article)
\_ A cult is a cult is a cult. If that's really your friend you
would do something to help them escape.
\_ A friend of mine went. She loved it. She thought it was the
answer to life, love, and everything. She then started getting all
her friends to go to help them (even if they didn't want helping).
When she tried to get my g/f to go, my g/f finally relucantly
agreed. My g/f was asked to not attend again when she kept
questioning everything they said. Sounds like a cult (or at least
a pyramid scheme that feeds on peoples low self-esteem) to me. If
it does help people, great, but not everyone needs to be helped!!
\_ If people want spiritual help, why can't they seek out the local
church instead of going to these new age nonsense? Jesus is the
one true God. Jesus will help you and save you. Put your faith
on Jesus and no one else.
\_ I just love you guys!
\_ I thought the Nicene Creed said Jesus was NOT God?
\_ Of one being with the father.
\_ How about you actually try to explain that? The whole
son of god, is god, dying somehow affecting sins, etc.?
\_ Talk to the Pope. This is the motd.
\_ are you honestly curious or just trolling?
\_ I'm trolling. Because they can't explain it. None
of it makes any sense whatsoever. The only way to
accept it is to just shut off your brain. The same
idiots watch that "crossing over" garbage. Yeah,
people's dead relatives have nothing better to do
than pathetically attempt to communicate trite
health advice and whatnot.
\_ the only reason i'm helping you now, zaphod
is that i can't bear the thought of you and your
disreputable freinds slouching around up here...
\_ I loved it. It was much better than "Cats." I'm going to see it
again and again.
\_ I thought the Nicean (sp?) Creed said Jesus was NOT God?
\_ I believe in God and Jesus Christ.
I do not believe in John Edward's Crossing
Over. There is a level of faith
which you need to have (God). right now, maybe
you just don't understand or do not have
the Faith yet. Nothing wrong with that
right now. Just hope a good person
can introduce you to it all.
\_ Ok, I'll bite. I'm one of the few real
atheists here who isn't offended by Christians
telling me i don't *yet* have Faith. I don't
care that you wish others will find the same
Faith as you. The same can be said of the
Linux crowd and they're much more obnoxious
about it and smelly as well. What I don't
understand is why do you assume that others
will, in time, come around to your way of
thinking as a matter of fact? Perhaps some
of us have our beliefs firmly grounded in
our own self exploration and will *never* come
around your way. And why your way? Why not
any of the umpteen other major and minor
religions and philosophies on the planet? What
gets me about the religious is that all of you
take it on faith that your way is the one true
way but none of you have any reason to believe
so beyond old hand-me-down stories and books
or scrolls that have either been retranslated
a few dozen times or we can barely read the
langauges of today. What's up with that? I
hope you're a real Christian and not someone
mocking it because I'd like to get a real
response.
\_ So, who introduced you to the atheist
religion? -- agnostic
\_ atheist, agnostic, whatever. they're
essentially the same thing. what do
you call someone who believes god may
or may not exist, that we may or may
not be able to find out whether or not
he exists, and that even if he does
and we do, he probably doesn't concern
himself too much with us anyway?
\_ It is not essentially the same thing.
An agnostic is someone who does not
have enough information to comment
on the existence of God. An atheist
is someone who believes he does
(but doesn't). I am very surprised
people confuse the two. As far as
philosophical commitments, atheism
is closer to theism than agnosticism.
-- agnostic
\_ Nice explanation. -mice
\_ Oh bullshit. Yes, it's true that
one cannot prove the nonexistence
of something. Especially something
that is defined to be "magical".
But you either believe it or not.
Agnosticism says it's unknowable.
But it is as knowable as anything
else. You don't lead your life
based on irrelevant possibilities
for which you have zero evidence.
So for all intents and purposes,
you are atheist. You just cling to
the agnostic label like a spineless
weasel. The absence of evidence is
evidence of absence, prima facie.
Good enough for a court of law.
\_ Agnosticism doesn't say God is
unknowable. Agnosticism says
there isn't enough information
at the moment. Maybe one day
that will change. For someone
who argues against agnosticism
you know very little about it.
Personally, I treat both
possibilities (God/No God)
very seriously. I am also
surprised you are resorting to
name calling. I don't
understand what about my beliefs
you find offensive. I don't
find you offensive, merely
overcommitted.
-- agnostic
\_ most atheists are most likely
special-case agnostics.
\_ No they are not.
Agnostics and atheists
are fundamentally
different. Agnostics
(correctly) do not jump
to conclusions.
Atheists and theists do.
\_ What kind of proof are you
looking for?
\_ the belief/religion of relativism..
a belief that there are no absolutes
(such as relativism) is very
absolute onto itself..
\_ I have basically given up trying to talk to
people about this. Whenever I have, in the
past, it invariably had two possible out-
comes. 1) getting angry and cutting off any
discussion or 2) the person ignores all the
specific details of the religion and just
talks about feelings etc. They completely
just accept without question all the details
based on this generic spiritual feeling, and
can't dissociate the two.
_/
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WEEEEEEE!
From http://m-w.com: Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable _/
Definitions vary. How are you so sure what agnostic means?
For someone who claims to be agnostic, you don't seem to know
much about it. Here's a little site that's kind of cogent:
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathq_athorag.htm
Go look at the history of the term. I find it irrelevant.
I am convinced there's no god, although obviously if one came
along I'd have to change my belief right? But a biblical-style
god is among the least believable things I can imagine. Alien
life is more believable, although I have no direct evidence.
And you are an atheist unless you believe in god.
\_ Do you believe the existence of a spiritual realm?
\_ Very well. If you think atheist = !theist, then agnostics
are a subset, although that's not a very meaningful
definition. If you think atheist = !god, then agnostics are
not a subset. I like the latter definition. My dictionary
and my friends agree with me.
\_ Fine. But that stuff about being overcommitted is silly.
I don't believe in Santa Claus. Do you have an opinion?
What's the practical difference anyway? Are you afraid
that the hypothetical god would be pissed if you aren't
always careful to stipulate to people that you don't know
"for sure"? |
| 2003/10/9 [Reference/Religion] UID:10553 Activity:nil |
10/9 Egypt's new neoliberalism:
http://mondediplo.com/2003/09/03egyptislam |
| 2003/9/28 [Reference/Religion] UID:10356 Activity:nil |
9/28 The jews are at it again. Why can't they just leave the Muslims, Arabs
and Palestinians alone to do their own thing and provide the
electricity their people need to advance? http://csua.org/u/4jk |
| 2003/9/10 [Health/Men, Reference/Religion] UID:29527 Activity:very high |
9/9 Why isn't penile circumcision on minors illegal? They are being
subjected to ritualistic cosmetic surgery without any form of
consent, especially in the case of infants. I mean seriously.
There is legal paranoia about so many things why not this?
\_ Because you're a troll
\_ http://dir.salon.com/mwt/feature/1998/10/26feature.html
\_ Kill the Jews!
\_ I was cut and am not a Jew.
\_ But I'll bet you know one! Kill the Jews!
\_ Ok I'm convinced. let's start with you.
\_ Kids are not capable of consent. Parents make their decisions for
them. That is the way the world works. --dim
\_ therefore if parents want to mutilate them, it's OK? Get a clue.
\_ How about earrings? Should girls have to wait until 18? --dim
\_ Parents should not wantonly pierce their kids against
the kids' will. If the kid wants a piercing, more power
to them. -tom
\_ The point here is that the kid has no power of consent.
Whether they want a piercing or a tattoo is not relevant.
\_ You don't understand the concept of consent. The
kid can't "consent" to a tattoo withour their
guardian's consent--but that doesn't mean the
guardian can consent for them. -tom
\_ actually, yes, it does.
\_ Do you think parents should be allowed to tattoo and
pierce their young children? They may not have legal
consent, but they have rights.
\_ Yes, they should be allowed to unless the act can
be demonstrated to be cruel or unusual. That's
what this hinges on. Is circumcision cruel and
unusual? One side says it is and the other not.
Most people (as with earrings) think it is not.
\_ umm. they're doing you a favor dude, how many girls wanna
you know what to a uncircumsized weanie.
\_ I'm a little ignorant here, but are there health issues for or
against circumcision? Also, I knew Jews get circumcized, but what
about Catholics, Mormons, Christians, and Moslems? Buddhists?
\- you dont know whether
moslems are circumcized? --psb
\_ It's a very "American" thing to do. In most cases religion
has nothing to do with it. It's societal.
\_ Religion (Christianity) has a lot to do with what is
considered "American". It is of religious origin.
\_ Not really. Certainly nothing life endangering. One could also
say we should chop off kids' fingers because they use them to
pick up bottles of poison.
\_ It is easier to keep clean and cancer risk is lower but it isn't
like you'll die sterile at age 24 if you're not. It's like
jogging. You're better off if you do but if you don't, hey.
\_ Hindus do not believe in circumcision.
\_ Circumcision pics: http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell
\_ But sensitivity is relevant premature ejaculation.
\_ My mom put me thru all these when I was 11 in Hong Kong.
\_ It reduces sensitivity, which means that teenage boys might be
slightly less of horndogs... maybe this will make them better
in bed, maybe worse...
\_ Bullshit. Americans are not less horny than Euros for example.
Sensitivity is irrelevant to horniness.
\_ But sensitivity is relevant to premature ejaculation.
\_ Prove it.
\_ You feel better, you cum earlier. Isn't it?
\_ how do you know it's not just "you feel better"?
\_ More than sensitive enough to cum a few times a day. --cut guy
\_ I had a circumcision like 2 years ago due to a medical condition
where my foreskin started losing its elasticity. I got my dick
stuck, and had to go to ER. After that, the doctor told me I
need to circumcize. It wasn't a fun experience.
\_ My dad had a circumcision when he was 50-something. |
| 2003/8/29-2004/2/14 [Reference/Religion] UID:12248 Activity:very high |
2/13 Has anybody ever heard of an "Evidence Bible"? I saw one on the desk
of my accountant, and it kinda freaked me out. Should I be freaked
out?
\_ From Amazon:
The Evidence Bible is the New Testament + Psalms & Proverbs in the
KJV. Throughout the entire Bible there are quotes from every
revivalist you can think of in addition to some from well known
scientiest. This Bible has the answer to any question - Athieism,
evolution, dinosaurs, etc.. Great for skeptics & so awesome for street
witnessing.
So it sounds like you accountant is an Evangelical Christian.
evolution, dinosaurs, etc.. Great for skeptics & so awesome for
street witnessing. [formatd]
So it sounds like your accountant is an Evangelical Christian.
Whether or not that should freak you out depends on whether he
evangelizes to you, and what kind of things he's accounting for you.
\_ God told me Brother Oral's ministry needed your money more than
the government.
\_ It probably does.
\_ yermom's oral ministry is pretty cheap though...
\_ No. God loves you and will clean up the sin from your
life as you trust him through continuous prayer and
Bible reading. As for the trustworthyness of the Bible,
I've been digging for 4 years now, and the more I dig,
the firmer the foundation gets. Issac Newton was a
serious Bible scholar who trusted every word. You can also. |
| 2003/8/28 [Reference/Religion] UID:29507 Activity:very high |
8/28 "Only one in five Americans approve of the federal court order
to remove the Ten Commandments monument..."
Just trying to understand this side of the argument. Do
people really think it doesn't violate the Constitution's
church and state issues, or are they Christians who wouldn't
mind the endorsement?
\_ Atheist here: I think it doesn't violate the Constitution at all.
\_ They're just stupid.
\_ Yes, anyone who disagree with your viewpoint is just stupid and
should be killed.
\_ Yes. I am convinced their opinions would be no different even
if it was something more overt like a big ol' Jesus-on-crucifix
statue.
\_ I want the version that looks like a hippie, bleeds every
hour (with the EZ self-cleaning option), and the removable
sword-in-the-side PLUS random vocalizations of His (editted
for Conservative POV only) word
\_ nice.
\_ *buzz* <drip> <drip> Do unto others *zz* as the Lord
God would do to you <drip> *zzz* (squirt-squirt-squirt)
\_ Someone just needs to put a statue of the pope in a courtroom.
Either we'll get some separation of church and state or this
country will finally admit to being an Iran-like theocracy.
\_ In God We Trust
\_ What we need is to make Unitarians the official state religion.
-- ilyas
\_ No we don't. -mice
\_ Why does this violate the Constitution? Does it violate the
Constitution that our money says "In God We Trust"? If Michaelangelo
had painted a Sistine Chapel-like ceiling in that court house would
people protest? It's art. --dim
\_ Don't forget Sacramento, San Francisco, the President
in sworn in with a Bible, the USSC has Moses with the
10 commandments on the building, etc. - the 'wall' has
no historical or judicial basis earlier than the 1950s
\_ Neither does "In God We Trust." If you're so sure about
your faith, you won't mind keeping it the hell out of
federal buildings.
\_ So does that mean that statues of Themis (Greek
goddess of Justice) should not be allowed because
they are religious in nature? --dim
\_ If you feel this way enact policy through the
legislature or referendum.
\_ I think there's a difference between a vague platitude on a coin
versus Christian trappings in an actual courtroom. Not that I
personally want the coin thing.
\_ Judeo-Christian trappings. The point is that old Roy had
the thing placed in a very conspicuous location as if to
to say, "What are you gonna do about it?" This is much
more in your face than "In God We Trust."
\_ I believe in the Reeses' peanut butter cup theory of state
and church. The problem isn't when your religion is in
my government, it's when your government is in my religion.
\_ You can't pick and choose. If one is not ok then neither
is "In God We Trust" on *every* dollar bill. The degree
of visibility should make no difference and frankly I see
cash much more often than I see a big chunk of rock in
\_ Blah blah blah.
some random southern courthouse. The money should be
changed before the rock if visibility is your standard.
\_ Perhaps some view the First Amendment from a historical vantage:
Justice Rehnquist's Dissent in WALLACE V. JAFFREE (1985)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/971381/posts
As an aside, the amendment reads 'Congress shall make no..'-
the key word being Congress.
\_ Oh, there he goes again. Haven't you already been swatted, fly?
\_ I'd respond to intellectual rebuttal of the points made
in the dissent.
\_ Hey, I'm into the slaveowner thing too, but I don't
constantly bug the motd about it.
\_ What? You're a Southern Democrat? Huh?
\_ In another letter, to Rev. Samuel Miller on Jan. 23, 1808 Jefferson
stated, "I consider the government of the U S. as interdicted
by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions,
their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only
from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the
establishment, or free exercise, of religion, but from that
also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to
the U.S. Certainly no power to prescribe any religious
exercise, or to assume authority in religious discipline,
has been delegated to the general government. It must
then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any
human authority."
This was written six years after Jefferson's 'wall of
separation' letter. |
| 2003/8/21 [Reference/Religion] UID:29417 Activity:high |
8/20 Public museums that house religious artifacts are
unconstitutional
\_ url?
\_ Drat. There goes the Declaration of Independence.
\_ hmm. time to load up on ammo -Arnold
\_ They are taking God away from us!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3169013.stm |
| 2003/8/16-17 [Reference/Religion] UID:29374 Activity:kinda low |
8/16 Idi Amin, R.I.P. We'll miss you, buddy! --U.S. State Department
\_ god save politicians
god save our friend the pigs
god save idi amin,
and god save ronald bigs! |
| 2003/6/20 [Reference/Religion] UID:28778 Activity:nil |
6/19 Related to the God thread below. When I was in the dorms, I debated
many times with my roomate on why asians shouldn't worship western
religions. Why go around worshiping a white guy (Jesus)? He
tried to rationalize it by saying that God is not white and Jesus was
darked-skinned, etc. Truth is, nobody knows what Jesus looks like and
99.9% of all pictures of Jesus shows a white guy with blond hair and
blue eyes. Then he tried to backpedal and said he doesn't worship
Jesus but worships God. And God is not human. Then I called
attention to one of the basic teachings of christianity: Trinity.
Jesus is the son, the father, and the holy spirit. He stopped talking
to me after that and thinks I'm some sort of wacko. I have yet to
hear a good reason why non-whites should worship a God that chooses
appear as a white guy. Anyone?
\_ I'm not a christian, but my understanding is that Jesus is only
a representation for the ideals of the religion (love, ect). If
this is true, then Jesus being white is irrelevant.
\_ No white man should worship a god that isn't a H0T A2N CH1X.
\_ You asians have already been assimilated into Western culture...
so give it up, we've already won.
\_ oh yeah.. the 3% of hte U.S. population that's Asian is really
representative of the world.
\_ In Christian Theology God is beyond the humans and the angels.
Jesus (the son) however is human (see the third temptation).
The relationship between God (the father) and Jesus is akin
to the relationship between Dr. Soong and Data. Dr Soong is
is father and creator while Data is the son. Different type
of life, but still related.
BTW, millions of Asians follow buddhism and worship images of
the buddha? After all he wasn't Asian, he was Indian and since
he was a prince most likely Aryan (Caucasian). |
| 2003/6/17 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28747 Activity:nil |
6/16 Last question on Israeli/Palestinian issue. This is a question
\_ Hah! Haha! Hahaha!
for those who are in support of Israel:
One of the justification for the Israel is that it is a land promised
by God. However, based upon my limited knowledge, God has promised
a land which is a lot a lot bigger than the current Israel even if
Westbank AND Gaza Strip are included. My question is 1. Are
majority of Israeli desire to claim the rest of the promised land
eventually? 2. For those American / American Jews who support of
Israel, would you support Israel if Israel use this as an excuse
initiate invasion of, let say Jordan, Syria and other neighbors so
the promise in the Bible can be fulfilled?
\_ TROLL!
\_ I would imagine that a vast majority of Israelis do not have the
extreme viewpoint of the whole Promised Land justification.
They just want peace.
\_ TROLL!
\_ Cmon now. Like any faith they will interpret or ignore the facts
to fit their 'word of God'. 1. No, the settler types are few,
maybe just over 100k, and are viewed as fringe. Israel is a very
secular country on many levels, don't make the mistake of
thinking that Israel's "jewishness" is all about religion --
jewishness is a complex mix of ethnicity, culture, and religion.
Most Israelis are not religious. 2. Learn English. --aaron
\_ You are down playing the role of religion on this. Hate
to say this, but the way Israeli evicting Palestinians are
pretty similar to the way Nazi evictings Jews just a decade
earlier. Their main "justification" for it *IS* that it is
"THEIR" land promoised by GOD. Further, if religion is not
an issue, then, why Israel want Jerusalem so bad?
-- OP
\_ You know, it's sad enough already that Godwin's Law
pops up so often, but it's even more pathetic when people
start trolling just for the sake of starting an argument
in which they can (yet again, sigh) prove it. -John
\_ TROLL! |
| 2003/6/13-14 [Reference/Religion] UID:28725 Activity:very high |
6/12 Enough people have seen the Matrix 2 already right? What do you
think happened near the end? How was Neo able to destroy those
sentinels outside of the matrix? My pet theory is that nobody is
outside the matrix. There is a larger matrix that they're all still
in.
\_ I haven't seen the movie, but that's just the kind of stupid
sophmoric shit i'd expect from it. -phuqm
\_ <Keanu voice> WHOA
\_ wow that's deep.
\_ Deja vu!
\_ your pet theory is everyone else's initial theory. seriously,
\_ if that's everybody's first reaction, then the real reason must
be something else. The writer/directors aren't that lame.
I bet they want a suprise ending for part III.
everyone i've talked to, that's the first idea that popped in
their minds
\_ Read _Flatland_ by Edwin A. Abbott:
http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~banchoff/Flatland
"My Lord, your own wisdom has taught me to aspire to One even
more great, more beautiful, and more closely approximate to
Perfection than yourself. As you yourself, superior to all
Flatland forms, combine many Circles in One, so doubtless
\_ Platonic Forms? http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/2f.htm
\_ It doesn't even have to be that there's a larger matrix. The
machines could've just start modifying itself to make them think
that they left the matrix but never did.
\_ Deja vu!
\_ It's kinda lame that the machines put the humans in a virtual world
with technology. Why not stick them in cavemen times?
\_ Longer lasting batteries in a "modern" setting.
there is One above you who combines many Spheres in One Supreme
Existence, surpassing even the Solids of Spaceland."
\_ Shut up ilyas.
\_ Uh... what? You motd people really don't know me that
well... The last 3 or 4 times someone guessed something
was from me .. it wasn't. -- ilyas
\_ What's this defamatory, "you motd people" thing? Who
the hell do you think you are to lump us all together
under some ugly label?
\_ smart
\_ Yeah like wow! No one else could possibly have thought of that!
I'm sure there aren't hundreds of fanboi sites out there saying
the same thing! YOU ROCK! LINUX ROCKS! BIKING ROCKS! ED ROCKS!
ROCKS ROCK!
\_ do i detect a hint of sarcasm?
\_ Good old rock. Nothing beats that.
\_ Paper beats rock.
\_ Do you have absolutely zero sense of humor? I thought so.
\_ A lot more than you do, apparently.
\_ more isn't necessarily better. -phuqm
\_ Don't you get it yet? Neo == Jesus + Superman. He can do whatever
he wants whenever he wants where ever he wants.
\_ Jesus loves me, yes I know, for the bible tells me so.
\_ oh yeah? if he's so super powerful in the matrix then why can't
he just turn it off, or zap all the fbi-clone guardians guys
instead of running away, or teleport instead of flying around?
\_ Just like Jesus could have kicked the ass of
romans right? Strange and mysterious are the
ways of the lord.
\_ Just like God was nowhere to be found when Hitler was
exterminating the Jews eh? The Lord works in mysterious
ways indeed.
\_ What do you mean God was nowhere to be found? He
sent the mighty American war machine to crush
Hitler.
\_ He was just testing their faith, right?
\_ God can't intervene in everything. Otherwise
we are but puppets. When God gave us free
will, it includes the free will to commit
\_ speak for your own penis.
\_ But I'm thinking of you.
evil.
\_ This is why you guys should stop touching
yourselves.
\_ But when I do, I'm thinking of you, baby.
\_ I love how most of the replies have nothing to do with the Matrix :)
\_ Matrix == Monsters, Inc.
http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/segment.jhtml?wfId=1297967 |
| 2003/6/9 [Reference/Religion] UID:28674 Activity:high |
6/8 A friend attends a church called the Church of Christ, Scientist.
Is there a difference between this and Scientology? If so, where
does the Church of Christ, Scientist fit in the rest of the
Catholic/Protestant/Unitarian/I-Agree-With-Paul hierarchy?
Serious question. Thanks. -- unreligious guy
\_ Christian Science is very different than Scientology.
Scientology has nothing to do with Christianity, Christian Science
is just one of the more different offshoots of Christianity.
They're the ones that believe, despite the name, that modern
medical science is bad, and prayer is the only valid treatment
for illness.
\_ two different founders. L. Ron Hubbard for Scientology,
Mary Baker for Church of Christ Scientist.
\_ I've always wondered if there was any association between
Christian Science and the Christian Science Monitor. -!op
\_ mary baker eddy founded Church Of Christ, Scientist
and the newspaper the Christian Science Monitor,
scientology and members of the
church of christ scientist (christian scientists)
Have absolutely nothing to do with each other. - danh |
| 2003/6/7-8 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:28666 Activity:nil |
6/7 http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/07/national/07DEPO.html?ex=1055563200&en=85b98a6079118552&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE Dubya is deporting 13,000 Muslims who came forward to sign up for his registration list who have no ties to terrorism. \_ Yes but hes giving them each a free pig as consolation. This story was written by Blair no doubt. \_ Racist! |
| 2003/4/3 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27964 Activity:high |
4/2 http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-04-02-freedman_x.htm Don't blame Jews for this war \_ I blame the Jews in West Palm Beach who voted for Pat Buchanan. \_ blame canada \_ Shut your fucking face, unclefucker \_ So I keep hearing how the Jews own the media and the banks and the government. Someone forgot to tell me where to sign up to get my share! --jewboy |
| 2003/4/2 [Reference/Religion] UID:27954 Activity:very high |
4/2 Why do people believe in Feng Shui?
\_ Why do people believe in any religion/superstition?
A: Because people are morons.
\_ That's what I thought. But there must be some
sodan out there who believes in Feng Shui who can
try to explain why. -op
\_ Why they believe in it? Why does anyone believe in any
religion? In most cases because they were raised on it.
\_ feng shui, as an interior design principle, isn't superstition.
As a religion, it's silly.
\_ Because it is effective and correct for all types of design.
\_ Because it's an effective tool for all types of design.
\_ Any set of principals can be turned into a religion if you
adhere to them unthinkingly. Or, they can become advice to
consider if you take them as simply observations from someone
who has thought about a problem.
\_ How can you really respect Feng Shui as a religion when it
doesn't have any cool action flicks about it? One good Hong
Kong movie like "Ikea Feng Shui Master: Meatballs and Bjorket
Chairs of Flaming Death" could push it over the top.
\_ Ikea the Scandinavian furniture store?
\_ if you have to ask...
\_ Because when they tried it, it brought them good fortune. |
| 2003/3/27 [Reference/Religion] UID:27875 Activity:nil |
3/26 "Escaping Submission"
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=6034 |
| 2003/3/26 [Reference/Religion] UID:27865 Activity:nil |
3/26 Hypothetical question: how many of you would convert to Islam if
there's a giant sandstorm that buries ALL the advancing US and British
troops in Iraq?
\_ never. if they beat the American fighters, i'll fight to the death
here, or move to a neutral country.
\_ I don't think you got my point. A giant sandstorm would be
a natural disaster. Allah intervenining the muslim world would
say.
\_ ok, or you could interpret that as the christian god taking
revenge on people who call themselves christians and
commit evil acts.
\_ Soda conservatives would be jumping on right now if they could
get out of paying taxes.
\_ Too late. I'm atheist. Bring on the hate...
\_ A sandstorm? Like we can't afford shovels for the army? WTF?
\_ weather: see storms. no precipitation.
I just hope our troops know to plant a thumper when they
cross open desert. |
| 2003/3/26 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27848 Activity:nil |
3/25 These are the true inheritors of the Babylonian Empire and
they are responsible for all of the technological advances
made in the Muslim world since 700 AD.
Its interesting because some consider Hammurabi's Code of Laws a
progenitor of Magna Carta.
Persecuted for centuries, Iraq's Assyrian
Christians once again wary of their future
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?eo20030227a2.htm |
| 2003/3/25-26 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27842 Activity:high |
3/25 Want to learn the truth, the *real* truth about what's going on in
the war, Greater Palestine, and the Muslim world in general?
http://www.arabnews.com and link:english.aljazeera.net
They're a bit slow but that's only because so many people have found
an alternative to the lies you're being fed.
\_ You know, I was always taught to suspect anyone claming to peddle
"the *real* truth" about anything. -John
\_ You know that this is actually posted by an anti-arab trying
to show how stupid arabs can be.
\_ Hm I thought it was being posted by someone trying to
show how stupid arabnews and al jazeera are. -John
\_ I posted this comment before and it was instantly
deleted. "Al Jazeera" is Arabic for "Fox News."
\_ Because your comment was opinated drivel and based on
nothing. If you backed it up with some facts you
\_ What's the need? The Muslim world has been at a standstill
for 700 years. Nothing has changed. Pedophile camel jockeys
on flying carpets. It's obvious the world would be better off had
the Muslim never existed.
\_ Whas da need? Da Muslim wold has been at a standstill
fo seven hunned years, sheeit. Nuffin' has changed.
Pedophile camel jockeys on dem flying doodads. Fosheezy,
da world would be better off had the Muslim never been up
in the club, damn straight.
\_ Spoken like a true Papist.
\_ Then prove me wrong with some facts, pagan.
would stay on the motd longer.
\_ It is what it is. Read the URLs and come to your own
conclusions. It doesn't matter what the OP intended.
\_ [racist content free troll deleted]
Look if you cannot figure out a way to make your
point without using racial epithets, you are going
to keep getting it deleted.
\_ You don't seem to be in such a hurry to delete
anti-semitic rhetoric.
\_ I'm the one who deleted the racist troll. I'm
pro-Israeli and a Jew. I deleted it because it
was a racist troll and added nothing to this
thread.
\_ Post all the rhetoric you want, just avoid
the camelf*cker routine, all right?
\_ This isn't much of an excuse, but whoever
that anti-semitic asshole is has only done
the "blame the jews for everything" routine,
while the anti-moslem asshole is openly
advocating their extermination. I delete
both when I see them, but more promptly if it's
hateful, rather than just stupid.
\_ Don't know about http://arabnew.com, but Al Jazeera is considered quite
independent from the Arab governments.
\_ Ah, the passive voice. "is considered". By whom exactly is it
considered anything? I consider Al Jazeera garbage 'news' and
propaganda. Next time why don't you say "... but Al Jazaeera is
considered garbage 'news' and propaganda" in the future instead? |
| 2003/3/11 [Reference/Religion] UID:27658 Activity:nil |
3/11 It's all about the Jews, again. The dirty big nosed evil war
mongering genocidal hate filled Jews. Kill whitey, then the Jews!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7832-2003Mar10.html
\_ See what happens in America if you are willing to speak openly
about these things? |
| 2003/2/26 [Science/GlobalWarming, Reference/Religion] UID:27546 Activity:nil |
2/26 What have the Muslim countries contributed to the world in the past
500 years? In art, science, music or any other field. I can't
think of anything. So what exactly are these extremists embracing?
\_ Religion? Getting the west to butt out of their region and stop
telling them how to run their countries?
\_ the exact same thing christian or jewish countries have
contributed (either a lot, or nothing, depending on what your
bias).
\_ We landed a man on the moon in the year 1755. The west had
to wait 200 years to do the same. Of course, our glorious
achievement was brutally suppressed by the white man's press
and was therefore never fully recognized. |
| 2003/2/10-11 [Reference/Religion] UID:27363 Activity:high |
2/10 Any familiar with the Bible here? Do all the quotes in
http://www.biblesexstories.com really exist in the Bible? Or are they
just pranks?
\_ Try reading the damn thing yourself. Yes, they are in the Bible.
\_ http://www.biblegateway.com
\_ They are there, but interpretations differ for some of them.
\_ http://www.thebricktestament.com/genesis/cain_and_abel/gn04_01a.html
\_ The stories he talks about ARE actually in the bible, however,
the interpretations he writes are mostly pretty off. Mainly
because he has no understanding of anchient hebrew culture, and
doesn't actually know what's going on.
\_ What other interpretations can there be for someone making her
father drink wine and laying with her father and preserving his
seed and then baring a child by her father?
\_ Notice I said "mostly." That one is acurate, but notice
he doesn't do much interpretation at all on that one.
I was more refering to "Abraham and Hagar" and "David and
Johnathan."
\_ Ah, I remember my first bible sex story. It was given to me by
Father Michael, and came wrapped in brown paper. |
| 2003/2/2 [Reference/Religion] UID:27283 Activity:nil |
2/2 Why are self-professed religious people so prone to getting angry and
sad? Aren't all their worries taken care of by the man upstairs?
\_ you've got the causality backwards. they got into religion
in the first place because of their emotional problems.
\_ Big man upstairs wants them angry and sad, obviously. |
| 2003/1/28 [Reference/Religion] UID:27223 Activity:very high |
1/28 if you are discriminating against races, you are being racist ...
what are you, if you are discriminating against religions ...
sectist come to my mind,
but i'm pretty sure there is a better word for it ...
\_ zealous? evangelical?
\_ intelligent
\_ No, you're closed minded and stupid. I'm the ultimate atheist.
I have never believed in any sort of divinity, magic, other
planes, or anything else of that nature. I have absolutely
no problems with people who do so long as they don't force it
on others and it keeps them happy. I'm opposed to self
destructive religions which push suicide, mutilation, mind
control through traditional brain washing methods (captivity,
drugs, etc). Let them be. Don't make atheism _your_ religion.
\_ secular humanist although that pertains to nondiety "religion"
against traditional religions
\_ rationalist
\_ these are not parallel to "racist"--"racist" implies favoring
one race over another, or over all others. I'd say the word
you're looking for is "religious". -tom
\_ nice.
\_ Nice and stupid. Really, it's pathetic. Someone can be
religious, and yet not preferring one religion to another.
\_ you're stupid. really, you're pathetic. give an example
of being religious and not preferring one religion.
then try to convince me that's at all typical.
\_ Dalai Lama, and almost all buddhists.
\_ do you think buddhists would describe themselves
as "religious"?
\_ you're wrong. buddhists prefer buddhism. i fully
understand hindusim/buddhism and "different
paths" etc. but the fact of the matter is, that
judaism and christianity are explicitly not
compatible with buddhism, even if buddhism is
compatible with them.
\_ To be discriminating is not always a bad thing:
1 a : to make a distinction <discriminate among
historical sources> b: to use good judgment
\_ atheist, while having a core meaning of "not believing
in god(s)/the supernatural", has a further connation of one who
discriminates against those who believe in god(s)
argues with those who believe in god(s). Another connation
is one who thinks godlovers are stupid/misguided. |
| 2003/1/21-22 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27180 Activity:very high |
1/21 Second try: what church building/organization do you church-goers
attend for worship? For example, "First Pres Church of Berkeley"
or "First Congregational". No, I didn't nuke the original post;
someone else did.
\_ Thai Buddhist Temple - services are from 10 am to around 2pm.
Bring about $6 for a good session.
\_ http://csua.org/u/833 (in oakland)
\_ Do you know an obnoxious obese guy named Jeffrey there?
\_ No, I know a skinny girl named Colleen there.
\_ some may be afraid to say because they will be attacked here.
\_ Good point. I don't mind anon answers.
\_ Speaking of which, anti-Christianity seems to be common here.
But do you notice anti-Jewish, anti-Islam, anti-something
else sentiment in the motd?
\_ No because that won't be politically correct.
\_ Post a link about Israel and the Jew haters crawl out from
under their rocks.
\_ A lot less people would be anti-Christian if
Christians didn't proselytize so damn much.
\_ Israel is a country. Judaism is a religion. Idiot.
\_ Oh, I'd say there's almost as much anti-Semitism here.
But then it's stylish to be an anti-Semite.
\_ The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: .
\_ Not Christianity.
\_ Why are you asking? Are you looking for a church?
\_ Just interested. I go to FPCB.
\_ FPCB: .
\_ Raelian Church (for the orgies): .
\_ Jesus has only one church. hint: it wasn't built by men
\_ What's the answer?
\_ It was built by women. Big Breasted Norse Teutonic women
who fell deer with their bow hunting skills, clad only in
a fur pelt and a belt for their daggers.
\_ Shit no! You're a complete fucking idiot! *EVERYONE*
knows they wore chainmail bikinis! DUH!
\_ What, you _like_ scar tissue?
\_ Maybe in YOUR Blockbuster-censored, Brittany Spears
pop G-rated world they did.. |
| 2002/12/25-26 [Reference/Religion] UID:26907 Activity:high |
12/25 merry hannukah!
\_ jesus killer.
\_ Making this comment implies you to be a Christian. Take heed of
Matthew 7:2 "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
\_ Weak troll. |
| 2002/12/18-19 [Reference/Religion] UID:26850 Activity:very high |
12/18 Watch "Muhammmad: Legacy of a prophet" on PBS tonight at 9pm.
\_ Why?
\_ So you can taunt Muslims and know what you're talking about.
It works well with Jews and various cults of Christ too.
\_ So if I watch this cartoon I'll be able to taunt Christian
cultists? You mean like the Catholics? What exactly do you
consider a 'cult' vs a 'real' religion? -!christian
\_ They are all cults in the end. Some are just bigger.
\_ Learn about how Islam is a friendly and peaceful religion and the
West is evil and ignorant and must be destroyed. |
| 2002/11/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Reference/Religion, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:26566 Activity:very high |
11/15 how do Freepers like the Left Behind books?
\_ What a "Left Behind" book? --!freeper
\_ Bunch of religious-oriented action/adventure type novels
apparently written around the apocalypse. Lots of hype in
the press around it recently. I read some excerpts, and the
writing quality is pretty abominable (as opposed to most other
action/adventure type novels). I think it's mainly a case of
targeting content at a certain demographic group, i.e. giving
the plebes what they want to read. -John
\_ I'm a Christian. I'm one of the ones who gives money to
the Church (from an earlier topic). I do not like the
"Left Behind" books: that kind of apocalypse story
doesn't interest me and I agree the writing quality
stinks. The movie version's got Kirk Cameron, so it's
gotta be good, right?
\_ conservative != christian necessarily.
It's a political ruse used by the left.
\_ bullshit. The reason the two have been lumped together is
that the vocal, annoying christian minority, the kind that
loves the left behind books, is overwhemlingly republican.
Add to that the fact that the current repblican leadership is
practically wallowing in it's fundieism and it becomes hard NOT
to link the two. -aspo
\_ A implies B does not mean B implies A. Did you graduate?
From Cal? I already knew they'd let any idiot in but do they
let any idiot graduate?
\_ Well said.
\_ Not really. Not even if you're grinding the same axe.
\_ Neither Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Howard Stern, Dr. Laura,
nor Larry Elder, are Bible believing Christians. Is banning
partial birth abortion so evil?
\_ Look, I'm not saying if you are conservative you have to
be a christian, raving or otherwise. I'm saying the reason
many people equate the two are because of the actions of
a very vocal and strong compenent of the republican party,
the party most people associate with conservative values.
Don't blame "the left" for this misconception, blame those
that have wrapped fundementalist christian agendas into
the republican party line. -aspo
\_ "most associated" by who exactly? the leftist agenda
driven pseudo mainstream press? yeah thought so. Just
how much acid, pot, and whatever does it take to get to
where you are now? just curious.
\_ the term partial birth abortion is pretty inventive,
go read http://csua.org/u/599 . yes i realize
i have no hope of influencing the poster of the
above. - danh
\_ if partial birth abortions are so rare and so necessary
than would you object to a ban on PBAs except in cases
where it is medically necessary?
\_ so you're just the secularly righteous type?
\_ True atheist (not the nutty religion hating type) and true
conservative here. We exist. Thanks for noticing. -!op |
| 2002/9/9 [Reference/Religion] UID:25819 Activity:nil |
9/7 Re: truth of bible (see below)
Is it true that Mary begot Christ in a virgin birth? Does this
qualify as human cloning? My Israeli friends tell me that christ is
the bastard product of Mary with one or one of many Roman soldiers.
Should I believe them or the bible?
\_ Nautius Maximus, his name was...promised her the known world.
\_ ObYerMom: It's true that a bunch of soldiers raped yermom,
oh wait, no, she did it for money.
\_ troll? I don't understand why people are biting
on the "how true are the stories in the Bible" troll.
\_ duh, obviously its a troll. that doesnt mean it isnt fun.
\_ Um, current technology allows virgin birth without cloning (hint:
in vitro fertilization). |
| 2002/9/9 [Reference/Religion] UID:25818 Activity:high |
9/7 Is it true that Nietzsche killed God?
\_ I don't think he did. He did do yermom, though.
\_ The real question is: did yermom do God?
\_ My god! yermom is the virgin mary! that makes *you* christ!
\_ No, it's:
God is dead. --Nietzsche
Nietzshe is dead. --God
\_ Leave it to the motd to supply drunken dormie wisdom. |
| 2002/9/9 [Reference/Religion] UID:25813 Activity:high |
9/8 Will someone please wipe the motd and all the religious overtones?
\_ no. -God
\_ God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no
place in organized religion! |
| 2002/9/8-9 [Reference/Religion] UID:25810 Activity:high |
9/7 how true are the stories in the bible?
\_ You've got to be kidding asking this on the motd, right?
\_ xenu will get you if you believe in the bible
\_ none of them are true
\_ There's likely some truth to them in the general sense. Example:
it is 99.9999% likely that a 30 year old man who was the son of
a Jewish carpenter was a prophet and had followers and got his
ass crucified. Did he drive the demons from a man into a herd of
animals and then run them off a cliff? Unlikely.
\_ look at it this way, Islam and Judaism also recognize Abraham,
Joseph, etc etc. These religions didn't branch off till later
but the fact that 3 religions have the same records in the
beginning really says something.
\_ Yeah. Two of them forked from the third. By this
reasoning rumors that are repeated enough become true, regardless
of the truth of the original source. By the way,
people are saying that giving me money prolongs your life.
\_ you've got to have the hair. it's all about the hair.
just ask dogbert. post a jpg of your hair in /csua/tmp/
and mabye you'll get rich.
\_ I've got great hair. You must have faith and send money to
my paypal account to be saved.
\_ If the 3 religions have the same records independently, then
it is significant. But how can you be certain there was
never any interaction among the people of these religions?
\_ Uh, there's no doubt Islam and Christianity were direct
offshoots of Judaism in that sense. World Religions 1A.
\_ I know that. So that invalidates the previous
poster's statement that "the fact that 3 religions
have the same records in the beginning really says
something."
\_ I was agreeing with you.
\_ A bit OT, but check out The Sins Of Jesus; it's by some
Berkeley physics prof. As a novel it's rather poor, but it
suggests some interesting theories-- like why did Moses turn a
staff into a snake instead of performing some more logical
miracle? (A: because it was a trick that was performed
commonly in Egyptian courts at the time). He also explains
the parting of the Red Sea like this: if a bunch of slaves
escape, they'll assume the pharoah will chase them, but the
pharoah can just assume they'll die in the desert. The
Israelites see a mirage of water closing behind them and think
"Our creator has saved us!" when in fact there was no chasing
army at all.
\_ I had Muller for physics, I missed a lot of the lectures but
I remember the one when he said some student of his gave him
death threats because of that book.
\_ I had Muller for physics too. Great lecturer. Pretty good
researcher. But his book is nuts. It flat out contradicts the
Gospel accounts in several places. Basically, it's a solution
looking for a problem.
\_ definition: miracle
2. Specifically: An event or effect contrary to the
established constitution and course of things, or a
deviation from the known laws of nature; a supernatural
event, or one transcending the ordinary laws by which the
universe is governed.
\_ 4. The occurrence of a CSUA male getting laid (not by
yermom). |
| 2002/6/27 [Reference/Religion] UID:25225 Activity:high |
6/27 If the media did their job and actually included a history of the
Pledge of Allegiance with their reports on the decision, the uproar
would be a blip from Gary Bauer or Pat Robertson. --scotsman
\_ If they ever did their job, if they ever could have done their job.
||| THE 'UNDER GOD' PHRASE was inserted in the Pledge of Allegiance
because of a McCarthy-era campaign by a right-wing Catholic group, the
Knights of Columbus. The KOC is now deeply involved in anti-abortion
campaigning by the Catholic Church and was once an important supporter
of the notorious Legion of Decency, which censored American films and
was the source of the phrase "banned in Boston." So not only are the
words "under God" clearly religious, they have their origins in the
theocratic maneuverings of one particular religion. Ironically, until
recently the Catholic Church did not consider Christian fundamentalists
covered by the very phrase they today so loudly champion. The theology
of salvation by faith alone was anathematized by Rome. |
| 2002/6/27 [Reference/Religion] UID:25220 Activity:very high |
6/27 The phrase "under God" in the pledge was an artifact of McCarthy era
paranoia over the "atheist Communists." Removing it, finally, takes
it back to the author's initial intent. The pledge had been around
for 62 years, through two World Wars, before it was changed. The
uproar surrounding this decision is utterly ludicrous. --scotsman
\_ oh is it? then be sure to remove any G-d related words from
our currency and courthouses.
\_ Er.. Yes. It is. And yes, they should. Read a little history.
Read the constitution. Oh, and sign your name. --scotsman
\_ Why the hell not. The time is ripe for that, too.
\_ As if the communists of the 50s really weren't out to destroy this
country. Read some history.
\_ Are you defending McCarthyism? I suppose you're going to
say the Holocaust didn't happen either.
\_ And believing in God helps you with this problem... how?
\_ The suit will be tossed out. All you god-fearin' folks will be
safe from the evils of atheism. This is really a big non-story.
The guy who brought the suit should teach his daughter to do what
the creationist folks do. Walk out until they are done. |
| 2002/6/27 [Reference/Religion] UID:25216 Activity:very high |
6/27 Can a decision by the Supreme Court be overruled or appealed, in
any way?
\_ no. the jedi do their bidding, and they provide order in
the galaxy.
\_ Congress can override via legistation. Don't they teach government
in HS anymore?
\_ uh, no, congress can override via constitutional amendment only.
don't they teach government in HS anymore? -tom
\_ In reality the supreme court would say a law is uncon. in
some very specific way for some very speicific reason and
thus further legislation, crafted around that point, can yield
*not* the SC (thank god).
the same originally intended results without running afoul of
and the god ban doesn't take affect for several
the earlier SC ruling. That being said, the 9th circuit is
*not* the SC (thank g-d).
\_ are you allowed to say "god" on the motd?
\_ god has no place within these walls, just like facts
\_ 9th circuit only affects the 9 most western states,
and the g-d ban doesn't take affect for several
god god god god god god god god god god god god! hah!
months, giving the government a chance to appeal,
and if necessary appeal to the supreme court.
\_ are you allowed to say "g-d" on the motd?
\_ g-d has no place within these walls, just like facts
have no place in organized religion!
\_ I'm allowed to say whatever tom says I'm allowed to say.
g-d g-d g-d g-d g-d g-d g-d g-d g-d g-d g-d g-d! hah!
\_ Back where I come from consitutional ammendments are
viewed as legistation. |
| 2002/6/16 [Reference/Religion] UID:25112 Activity:nil |
6/16 Crusade Propaganda
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-madden110201.shtml |
| 2002/5/28 [Reference/Religion] UID:24961 Activity:nil |
5/28 Jews launch their own spy satellite. No one is safe now.
<DEAD>library.northernlight.com/EC20020528100000066.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0#doc<DEAD>
\_ Sign your posts so that we know whom to laugh at. -alexf
\_ yeah, as if it's as good as Lockheed's Kh-12 builtin Sunnyvale for
the US
\_ you are forgetting that 1/6th of Israelis are Muslim or Christian,
pay taxes, vote, and have representation in parliment. This comment
is about the same as saying 'Christians wage war...' etc with the US
in Afganistan or elswhere.
\_ neither the US or afghanistan were founded on the premise of a
state for those of a certain religion. Israel was founded on such
a premise.
\_ The US wasn't founded on the premises of native Indian nations
of certain religion(s)? |
| 2002/5/2-3 [Reference/Religion] UID:24684 Activity:very high |
5/2 Don't forget to pray:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/04/20020426-2.html
\_ I like the stuff about "In the year of our Lord." I like that
inclusive part of Our Christian Nation. I think I'll burn a
cross today.
\_ i'll just pray for the democrats to come up with a real
candidate for 2004 so we can get this neandrathal motherfucker
\_ It's telling that you
can't spell this, but
can spell motherfucker.
out of office.
\_ How about a candidate (anyone, dem or rep) that will stand
up and say NO to foreign aid. FUCK the foreign aid to
Israel and Egypt. FUCK THEM ALL! They want to kill
themselves, go ahead. the US doesn't owe them jack shit.
\_ Ah, to be blissfully ignorant of international
dependencies.
\_ Just be prepared for the occasional 767 flying into a
densely occupied and important skyscraper.
\_ Sorry, I'm still burning a cross. Maybe a flag too. I'm
out to offend people right now.
\_ The teaching of Christ and the Bible are evil,
what a HORRIBLE foundation for modern
society. A much better mantra: do what feels
good and assume no personal responsibility.
\_ Yeah.. it's too bad christians, to a person,
continuously miss the point of the teachings
of christ, making hedonism seem a valid
alternative.
\_ Exactly, thats why you should let other
dictate how you think and act, especially
the press, Europe, and the U.N.
\_ Wow. You completely missed _my_ point
as well.
\_ If someone doesn't "get" your point
you must consider that maybe it's
your fault for lacking clarity and not
entirely the reader's fault. Your
followup sure didn't clarify anything.
\_ Not that this needs to be stated,
but... you're an idiot.
\_ http://www.tshirthell.com/insensitive.htm if you really
are serious about offending people
\_ What happened to separation of church and state?
\_ Nothing in particular. They still have an opening prayer in
Congress. What's up with all you stupid ignorant fucks who
think this country has always had some magical line between
religion and government thicked than your skulls? It's a myth,
a fantasy, a delusion created by liars, the ignorant and the
psychotic. You don't even know what the principle of separation
is about. It has zippo to do with Bush talking about God.
\_ It's in the 1st Amendment. Nat'l Prayer is establishing
religion.
\_ Oh nonsense. The President talking about God in some
random speech is not the instituting of National Prayer or
a National Religion. Take it to alt.conspiracy. And oh
yeah, here's the FULL TEXT of the 1st amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or
abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the
right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the government for a redress of grievances." Ignorant
fucking hippies....
\_ there has been a slow erosion since WWII. The "under god"
portion of the Pledge of Allegiance is new too (1954).
\_ So is "In God We Trust". The original motto was
"E Pluribus Unum", but that was changed in the 50s.
\_ Slow erosion of what? You're nuts. Here's a quote from
the God Damned Declaration of Indepence. It's the very
first line, btw: "When in the Course of human events, it
becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political
bands which have connected them with another, and to
assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and
equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's
God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of
mankind requires that they should declare the causes which
impel them to the separation." Hey did you catch how those
old dead white dudes snuck in that evil stuff about G-d???
Really scary stuff! Wowzerz! Who knew? And oh my G-D!!!
There's another mention of the Creator(!!!) in the very
next line!!! I need a new country and I need it now!
http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm
\_ hey moron, the Decleration of Independence has NOTHING
to do with our government. Nada.
\_ Yeah it was only written by most of the same folks
(dead rich white wasp men) who wrote the constitution
and bill of rights. Yeah, nothing, uh huh.
\_ The Declaration of Independence has no i
other people shove their religion down my throat.
laws in it. The government is made of
laws. Think of the DoI as sort of a
"mission statement." And take a intro
to law class, please. You rube.
\_ The founding fathers concept of "Nature's God" was
completely different from the post WWII Christian
God that has steadily been working its way into our
government. The founders were also very keen on keeping
the Christian God out of our gov (there isn't a single
mention of god in the constitution) and they would have
not have been happy with the current state of events.
\_ You could not be more incorrect. On what *facts*
do you base this assertion, or is it your
'opinion'. Everything you wanted to know
about the intent of the original founders
is in the Federalist Papers and other
writings. You can try to
twist history to your liberal secular
agenda on the MOTD, but their own statements
reveal you to be a farce. All you have
to do is READ the First Amendment. But's lets
be honest, activist judges have vastly
accelerated the trashing of the Constitution
since FDR, so its a moot point anyways.
\_ Have you read the constitution? Not one
mention of god. Not even in the oath of
office. The only mention of religion is
other people shoving their religion down my throat.
that no religious test would be required
for someone taking public office.
\_ http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm
If you read the arguments put forth by
the opponents of the constitution, you
will find that chief among them was that
the framers had abandoned "christianity"
and had written the constitution so that
anyone could hold public office. The
constitution was written in a secular
fashion for many reasons, some of which
had to do with the deist believes of the
framers. I'm sure you want some links so
here you are:
http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html
http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/quote2.htm
\_ please please PLEASE learn something about
Colonial and English history. The whole
point of seperating church and state, and
distancing the christian god from the govern-
ment, is that in England, the King was the
head of the church. Look at the publishing
date of the Federalist Papers. There are
"facts" that back this up.
http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm
\_ http://http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm
\_ These links have ZERO to do with the
intention of the founding fathers "The
U.S. National Mottos" - what
is your point? Either way socialist
secular sympathisers have effectively
won. However, when you are finally
able to get rid of the guns, and facism,
or shall we call victory of the
proletariat, finally comes to the free
world, you or your children have no
right to complain. Religious
fanatisism does not exist in the west, all
totalirian regimes have been strictly
atheist and secular.
\_ Wow. Not to confuse this argument with
facts, but... you're an idiot.
\_ Why do people bother posting drivel
like this? You're really not dragging
the poster down at all. Actually when
I see a long post written in decent
English followed by a quickie smear,
it only adds to the belief that they
may be right since you can't come up
anything better.
\_ I agree. When someone as kooky
as our religion loving nutcase
posts a drooling rant, it is
better to let it stand on its
own "merits." You can't argue
with someone whose belief is
based on faith, not reason.
\_ A bit more subtle but still just
a personal attack. Nice try.
How about you take a shot at
responding to his last point
about religious extremism in the
West vs. other parts of the
world. Then maybe you won't
look so intellectually weak.
\_ I have better things to do
than try and teach you
history. Look up Reformation
and Counter-Reformation in
any good reference to start.
\_ Not to mention the timothy
mcveighs and abortion bombers
and KKK members of the world.
Get a fucking clue.
\_ Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
\_ I did. Nothing new about persecution
of religious minorities even then.
\_ Nice to see them working on pragmatic solutions.
\_ Like it or not, the civilization you live in today
is the product of 2000 years of Christianity. Exactly
what is so offensive about spirituality?
\_ I have nothing against spirituality. I have everything against
other people shoving their religion down my throat. [formatd]
\_ What other people would that be?
\_ The president of the United States.
\_ And he's forcing you to commit Christian acts of
kindness how exactly? I don't recall hearing news of
the "Twice A Year Mandatory Christianity" bill getting
a lot of support in Congress. You sound like one of
those whining atheism-as-religion fanatics that make
us real atheist look like hypocritical crackpots. You
do real atheists a disservice with your noise.
\_ By virtue of holding a powerful position, the
urging of prayer by an elected leader can make
those uncomfortable with prayer feel uncomfortable
in their civic position. This is the drive behind
the separation of church and state, and the quaker
movement in general. Oh, also: atheism, while not
a religion, is, by naature, a religious choice.
The general intolorance to that choice is what the
previous poster is concerned with. |
| 2002/5/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Religion] UID:24669 Activity:high |
5/1 Jews try to burn Bethlehem Church, place of Jesus's birth, Waco
style.
<DEAD>webcenter.newssearch.netscape.com/aolns_display.adp?key=200205011756000237290_aolns.src<DEAD>
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/01/mideast/index.html
\_ sounds like a terrorist bomb accidentalyly went off inside the church
by one of the terrorist hiding in it.
\_ sounds like a terrorist bomb accidentalyly went off inside the
church by one of the terrorist hiding in it.
\_ Terrorists hold holy site hostage for over a month. The world
doesn't seem to care. Christians wonder how world would react if
Jews occupied the Al-Aqsa mosque.
\_ It's only a mosque. We've blown those up before.
\_ the jews should get their temple back, blow up that sacriligeous
mosque on top of the jewish temple.
\_ Ah, another sign that the "Rapture(tm)" is nearing. The Jews
controlling Jerusalem. That's why the conservative Christians
are supporting Israel.
\_ Except for a very minority of Christian kooks, that's
mostly the imagination of the Jewish media. |
| 2002/4/29 [Reference/Religion, Recreation/Humor] UID:24637 Activity:nil |
4/29 This would be almost funny if it wasn't so fucked up. Catholic
Cardinal blames 6 year old boy for being molested. Just fucking
amazing....
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/119/metro/An_alleged_victim_is_called_negligent+.shtml
\_ The _really_ sad thing... The boy probably blames himself, too.
\_ Why is this surprising Boston is among the most liberal cities
in the US. Reap what you sow. |
| 2002/3/17-18 [Reference/Religion] UID:24142 Activity:insanely high |
3/17 Truly, a peaceful and simply misunderstood religion. Fucking barbaric
is what it is and what they are.
news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1874000/1874471.stm
\_ You shouldn't be so quick to believe everything you read. (I'm not
saying it didn't happen - or that it did - just that it is the
exception for even the western papers to get the facts straight and
i would be unsurprised if the Saudi papers didn't even try to).
Also (though i hate to be so trite, you clearly missed the point
the first million times people have undoubtedly pointed it out to
you), perhaps you have heard of The Spanish Inquisition? Most
Religions have had some leader that acted "barbaric"ly in the name
of that religion. People are often stupid and cruel.
\_ The Spanish Inquisition was a long time ago, in a more barbaric
age. This is happening NOW. Islam is the only religion where
such depravity happens to this day. Why do you think that is?
Btw, it's 'barbarously.'
\_ northern ireland mean anything to you?
\_ People in N Ireland are forcing little girls to stay in
burning buildings? You've got a URL for that? *That*
would certainly be news.
\_ moron, apologistic fool who will kill us all eventually
\_ You think it didn't happen? Or might not have? That wasn't the
only URL on the topic. Just the only one I posted. It definitely
happened. The question remains, "When will we realise these people
are fucked in the head?". |
| 2002/3/6-7 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:24038 Activity:very high |
3/6 Recently it seems that a lot of wackos (e.g. Pat Robertson)
have been bashing Muslims as violent extremists while other
people defend Islam as a peace-loving religion. Obviously
I don't agree with Pat Robertson, but if Islam is a peace
loving religion where does the idea of "holy war" come from?
Do only some sects believe in "holy war" or is it part of the
mainstream Islamic beliefs and if so how can Islam be
peace loving? Thanks
\_ You've answered your own question. I suggest you take your
personl dislike of PR out of the equation and ask yourself the
personal dislike of PR out of the equation and ask yourself the
same questions you ask the motd. The answer is self evident.
\_ There are many interpretations of the Koran. There are
extremists for any religion; it all depends on how one
was the Crusade.
\_ Crusades. There were a few.
interprets it. "Holy War" is hardly unique to Islam. There
was [sic. were] the Crusade.
\_ Crusades. There were six (plus some other forays).
\_ weren't the Crusades a response to the "JIHADS" and
bloody conquering all the followers of Mohammed did?
\_ Not really. The Crusaders were conquering the people
of the Near East and Middle East to "reclaim" the
Holy Land for the RCC. Muslims happen to be living
on that land. Gold, treasure, goods, and glory.
\_ duh, they had to reclaim it because the muslims
attacked and conquered the jewish settlements due to
mohammeds teaching and their their koran. It's okay
to claim with violence but not okay to take it back with
war? i don't understand.
\_ they conquered all the up to Spain with violent wars.
and killed those who wouldn't convert, this was before
the crusades by muslims.
\_ jihad ("holy war") means a war against the ones primal nature.
To wage a successful jihad one must turn ones aggressive
nature inward and destroy the ego. The militants have grossly
misinterpreted it. If you want a more indepth understanding
Joseph Campbell has written and spoken about this.
\_ Whether they misinterpreted it or not, they're now living it
and have been killing innocent people in it's name for a few
decades in modern times and earlier if you want to mix n match
historical periods. Murder by any other name is still murder.
Do you think Joseph Campbell would like to go to Afghanistan,
Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc, and explain
to them they've got it all wrong? I'm sure they'd just slap
their heads like in a V8 commercial and change over night.
\_ Thanks, I'll look around for that on the web. Would you
happen to have a URL?
\_ You can get started at the Joseph Campbell foundation:
http://www.jcf.org/about_jcf.php
\_ So is killing others via holy war discussed in the Koran?
The New Testament doesn't explictly advocate killing one's
enemies (although the Old Testament does). Basically I'm
wondering if Islam is like Christianity where the
"official" dogma is non-violent but practioners are violent
or like Judaism where the "official" dogma is explictly
violent.
\_ The main problem of "dogma" is that it is often based
on a literal interpretatation of religious texts. Since
most of these texts were written metaphorically, such
an interpretation gets you lots of problems.
For example, think about the phrase "kill your enemies."
Who are your "enemies"? How do you know they are outside
of yourself and not inside? Think about that. Read
Campbell, he explains it like no other westerner I've
ever met.
\_ This is incredibly blatant anti-semitism, and the
precise opposite of the truth. Everything in the old
testament is included in the Christian Bible (barring
slight mistranslations) but the unmediated (<-key word;
Judaism explicitly forbids Jews to engage in the
literal, unmediated interpretation mentioned in the
previous response) Old Testament does not represent
"Jewish Dogma" in any way. Jewish law is composed of
3000 years' interpretation and reinterpretation: the
Mishna, Talmud, Shulkhan Arukh, etc. Jewish "official
dogma" is extremely complex (the Talmud alone fills an
entire bookcase, but great rabbis memorize it) and
pragmatic, and applies in a rational way to everyday
life; the closest it comes to being "explicitly
violent" is to say that a person in the act of murder
may be killed to prevent the murder. Since I don't
watch the motd constantly, I probably won't have an
opportunity to reply to further nonsense on this
subject, but ... there's a reason there has never been
a Jewish "Holy War," barring Bible stories.
\_ What the hell are you thinking? The motd is the perfect
place for lies, misinterpretation and blatant
anti-semitism. How dare you bring coherent fact to the
motd and crush all debate?
\_ What a stupid question! Go read freerepublic since you're really
only interested in one answer. You might as well ask, "How can
Christians really believe in the 10 commandments when they bomb
abortion clinics?"
\_ "Kill them all. God will recognize his own."
\_ I believe that its "God will sort the dead".
\_ Translation varies.
\_ wasn't that a Metallica Album? |
| 2002/2/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Reference/Religion] UID:23944 Activity:high |
2/21 Daniel Pearl killed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/21/international/21CND-REPORT.html
\_ this kind of shit happens every day. since he is american
and pakistan is a musilim nation it's news because that helps
feed anti-muslim sentiment in the u.s.
\_ that's kinda cruel to say. either way it *was* someone
who was unfairly killed. that's all...
\_ innocent people's heads being cut off with a knife and
videotaped. Yes, right. That's very common, in Chechnya
maybe.
\_ hehe, or thailand
\_ actually, i'm surprised it didn't get more coverage. most
nights the local news hardly mentioned it, and when they did,
it was, "Oh, and by the way, we're still not sure if
the reporter's dead or not. Now onto sports!"
\_ I guess that's why US sent troops to Bosnia to help
the muslims there?
\_ after waiting for how long?? check your facts jack, wasn't
until other UN troops were held hostage did the U.S. care.
\_ Doesn't matter. Clinton did the right thing in the
end, inspite of Republican opposition. He is my
hero!
\_ And thats why CLintoon bombed Christian Serbia to help
the Muslim KLA, the same muslims we fought in Afghanistan
and are now chasing around the world.
\_ The muslim world didn't seem to appreciate this, I think.
\_ The Bosnian muslims apprecated this, and that's
good enough.
\_ The Serbian yahoos ain't no Christians. They are
bullies, and it's good that we bombed their arse.
Now the Balkans are all peaceful, and participating
in the Olympics too. Clinton is my hero!
\_ Gotta love the PC Jews at the NYT omitting very important details
about the situation, just like the major networks wouldn't show
dozens of people jumping from the WTC. Pearl was not just murdered,
he was beheaded.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/632768/posts |
| 2002/1/24 [Reference/Religion, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:23654 Activity:nil |
1/24 What's the encryption method soda accepts now? SSH used to use
blowfish now it's 3des. How come it changes around?
[motd format god was here. next time the motd delete god will be here] |
| 2002/1/17 [Reference/Religion] UID:23589 Activity:very high |
1/17 is this some sick joke??
http://www.ultraedit.com/products/story.html
\_ Not sick--fanatical, but not sick. -John
\_ It is neither the work of a fanatic nor sick. If you understood
the world outside Berkeley a bit better you'd know this sort of
person and their way of thinking is quite common. You're the odd
one out in this world, not the ultra-edit guy. He's harmless, why
do you care how he makes his business decisions? You on the other
hand seem to have some issues with unfamiliar beliefs and ways of
thinking. The ultra-edit guy isn't the one with the problem. Why
do you find his faith so offensive? (Before you go off attacking
me as a right wing whacky nut religious freak, I'm not. I'm a
true atheist so don't bother.)
\_ actually your're just boring and pedantic
\_ How so? Because I don't beat up on some random guy for his
strong belief in God? I'm sure you're really exciting. Who
else do you beat on that isn't exactly like you? Does that
sort of shallow closed minded idiocy turn on the girls?
\_ Well, I can't speak to the boring part, but I believe the
poster was calling you pedantic because you managed to
generate ten lines of outrage from a one-line troll. As
for me, I was amused by the Ultra-Edit guy's line,
"From this point we knew that I was going to quit my job.
I told a few people almost immediately. I expected non-
Christians to think I was crazy, but it's surprising how
negative Christians can be also." What, he expected
non-Xians to think he was crazy for pursuing his dream?
How very peculiar! --erikred
\_ http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=pedantic
Which definition do you think the sub-genius was
using? I don't think it means what he thinks it means.
Anyway, you can join the club with your 10 line reply.
I didn't know the motd had a reply length limit. Silly
me. I thought content mattered, not brevity. Maybe Cal
has finally degraded down to community college levels.
\_ Funny, I went to http://Dictionary.com for the definition
myself. I believe the poster intended the common
pejorative connotation of one who holds forth at
great length on a topic of little importance. Your
reply to me, on the other hand, fits the first
definition perfectly. As for content, quality of
content has never mattered much on the motd, as
evidenced by your post to the original poster.
--erikred |
| 2002/1/2 [Reference/Religion] UID:23433 Activity:high |
1/1 Religious Wars: http://www.birdhouse.org/macos/beos_osx \_ The BeOS crowd is =~ Amigaheads. -tom |
| 2001/12/19 [Reference/Religion, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:23304 Activity:nil |
12/19 From now on, all posts critical of the Israeli government will be
immediately eviscerated from the motd. -- soda mossad
\_ You're a meanie
\_ And anything from the libertarians too because if a libertarian
says something we shouldn't even hear about it. We all know
they're insane so we can dismiss everything they say without
thought or intellectual effort. Oh wait, no, this is Berkeley.
No one at Berkeley would do that! We have the highest standards!
\_ Not anymore. The quality of thaistix this year really sucks.
\_ this article is about Muslim Bedouins in the Israeli
army:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/19/international/middleeast/19MIDE.html
-danh
\_ The palestinians are stupid- they could have had land as mandated
at the end of WW II. Instead they were duped, and continue
to be duped, by their leaders, by their 'Arab' brethren,
and their hate for Jews, to perpetually fight to push all
Jews into the sea. Jews have been there since time eternal,
and they have a right to be in Jerusalem. All this trite
demagoguery does nothing to obscure the facts.
\_ it looked like the plan offered to arafat by barak and the US
would have split the palestinians into 4 different pieces
of land, with israeli controlled roads between them. true?
\_ I've read that somewhere. I haven't read an original source,
only interpretations of the agreement from people with an axe
to grind.
\_ There is some truth to that. Some have interpreted recent
statements by Powell, Bush and Blair of a "viable Palestinian
State" as meaning that this division would not exist in
peace settlement/proposal. As to Barak's offer, it was indeed
the best and most generous offer given to the Palestinians
by the Israeli side. Unfortunately, as "good" as it was it didn't
meet the minimum "requirements" of the Palestinians by not
dealing with certain "HOT" topics. |
| 2001/12/14 [Reference/Religion] UID:23245 Activity:high |
12/13 all god-religion must die!
\_ so should this cheesy troll.
\_ obviously you haven't watched the bin laden confession tape.
\_ If bin laden had a csua account, he would be a troll,
too.
\_ anyone gotten a headache from smoking weed before?
\_ Does Buddhism count?
\_ Yes. Why shouldn't it?
\_ Buddhism doesn't suppress questioning of itself, encourage
violence, or impose oppressive codes of law on people like the
Judeo-whatever religions.
\_ Can Buddhists eat meat, drink beer or have sex? |
| 2001/12/11 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/Religion] UID:23211 Activity:insanely high |
12/10 What is the big deal with John Walker?
\_ When you grow up in America and are taught/shown/experience why
secular govt, freedom of religion, (classical) liberalism, and
capitalism (i.e. "consumerism") are actually good things, someone
who attends terrorist camps and shoots at Americans is fucking
annoying and a traitor to the blessings he was born with.
\_ You've made my point, from the opposing point of view, better
than I could have myself.
\_ You're too smart for me. Could you say that again using
common simple grammatical structure a 5th grader could
understand?
\_ Plus he's white.
\_ yes, that's why it's being made into a big deal.
\_ If he was anything but Arab it would have been a big deal.
How much bigger a deal would it have been if his ancestors
were from, oh... say... Japan? Get over the hate-whitey
thing.
\_ Actually, if he were an American of Arab descent,
i think it would be an even bigger deal.
\_ I disagree. It's the photos of a pale disheveled
white guy that made the news. If it was an
american of arab descent, we would just call him
an muslim who happened to speak english and spent
time in the states. |
| 2001/12/9-10 [Reference/Religion] UID:23195 Activity:high |
12/8 http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel09.html Statistics and the ecosystem meltdown. \_ I'm not sure a Franciscan monk is where I want to get my authoritative interpretation about climatealogical and statistical evidence. Nonetheless, I think Bjorn \_ Gregor Mendel, Thomas Bayes. Lomborg has some good points -- environmentalism is, in some ways, about white people feeling better about themselves for doing insignificant things and that the world has more pressing problems that can be solved very cheaply if people were willing to do so. But some of the things Lomborg says are just silly. For example, he talks about air pollution and points out that it is a phenomenon that has been around for a long time in the western world and uses the fact that it is now getting better to point out that we are on the right track. Well no duh it's getting better. Air pollution ain't getting better because we are using more coal and driving more diesel cars. It's getting better because western contries have imposed regulations, environmental regulations, that improve air quality. Also, most conservation is so inexpensive to do and is a great way to both save money and help the planet (at least a little), so I can't imagine what kind of arguments one could level against it. I'm looking forward to a good reader that will have both the Lomborg perspective and opposing viewpoints. \_ Why does it seem difficult to understand that some people don't care about saving money or helping 'the planet'? \_ It is not difficult to believe. There are robbers, murderers and rapists in the world, too, that is why good will alone is not enough to create a civil society. \_ I suspect the point being that Kyoto isn't going to save anything. There's nothing in the link about "people don't care about saving money or helping the planet". I believe all he is saying is that we should be intelligent about how we approach the environment and not just swallow every bit of doom and gloom that comes our way. I'm old enough to remember being taught in school how we were causing the next ice age and how in our time the planet was going to plunge in to eternal cold. I remember when they switched to the "it'll either freeze or burn" theory. And now we're into the "going to hell, burning" theory. All this is only in the last 25 years and comes from the same people. \_ Computer people say completely different things now about AI than they did 25 years ago. Does that mean that what they say now about AI is wrong? No, it means they have new information. The process of refining hypotheses based on new information is called "science". -tom \_ What do they say, Tom? \_ When you have pre-determined conclusions and make the science fit the theory it is called "junk science". And yes, tell us what AI people are saying today as opposed to 25 years ago? \_ Nothing is difficult to understand about that. My comment wasen't intended to address them, as those people will do whatever they want no matter what. Lomberg isn't addressing them either. \_ Ok whatever. Make your own thread if you want to be miles off topic. \_ What a troll. A letter to the editor written by one person who bases his views of the environment on one book. I wonder how many books in the bibliography really support his beliefs. \_ If you read it and some of the referenced works you might know and have something intelligent to say instead of slamming it as a troll because you simply don't know. |
| 2001/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Religion] UID:23080 Activity:high |
11/22 To whoever was asking about what happened to the israeli
teenagers who were in the US illegally and they got picked
up by the FBI after they were seen taking photos of themselves
with the wtc burning in the background, they're still
in jail without bail or access to outside communication,
\_ Thanks for the boost to my cynicism. Let's vote these bastards
out and vote new ones in.
\_ I'm all for new bastards.
\_ URL please? I thought this was a rumor created by left-wing
Muslim fundamentalist Arabic anti-semites.
\_ No, it is a rumor created by right-wing Christian fundamentalist
American anti-semites. Keep your religious fanatics straight!
\_ I read that they were released after a week or so. No URL, sorry. |
| 2001/11/16 [Reference/Religion] UID:23057 Activity:very high 50%like:22470 |
11/15 http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=863432 Islam and the West: Why Bin Laden was wrong. \_ Is it possible to post something from http://theonion.com and not get deleted? \_ No. You're only allowed to post things certain other people find directly and personally interesting. Anything they believe doesn't directly pertain to their life or they disagree with to any extent is a troll and shall be purged. \_ No need for euphemisms, anything inconsistent with liberal pathological stupidity is a troll. \_ True but it extends to non-political items of no interest to certain people as well. I have no problem calling it like it is. I wanted a broader definition. calling it like it is, but I wanted a broader definition |
| 2001/10/30 [Reference/Religion] UID:22864 Activity:nil |
10/29 Bible and less than 100 years of historical context aside, isn't
Israel technically built on an Arab owned land?
\_ fuck israel.
\_ Isn't America technically built on Arapaho, Cherokee, et al land?
\_ Doesn't it all belong to the Pharaoh? |
| 2001/10/23 [Reference/Religion] UID:22804 Activity:nil |
10/22 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27255-2001Oct20.html Islam is a lame religion, and so was Christianity. http://www.msnbc.com/news/640815.asp Pikachu means I'm a Jew in Japanese \_ http://www.msnbc.com/news/645002.asp Bombing is not the answer. (If someone can come up with a better link, please do.) -original p0ser |
| 2001/10/22-23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Religion] UID:22798 Activity:very high |
10/22 Looking for a good resource on how to pick a good English name
(or a christian name rather) from a Chinese name. Since I'm not
Christian, I'm having a hard time getting used to being called
"John" or "David" or "Josh", etc. How did you resolve this dilemma?
Are there easy to pronounce names that are not christian in origin?
Pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.
\_ Why would you want a white Christian name? Helping out the
imperialists, eh?
\_ My gawd! Why would you do this? Just how many people out there
have the same exact combination of English first name and Asian
last name?!?! In fact, I find mine to be curse. Be proud you are
Chinese and not some "John Lee" or "David Lin" or whatever.
\_ I find Japanese gals with Japanese first names more exotic than
those with English first names. --- Chinese
\_ japanese names are usually pronouncable by non japanese
speakers. not so of many chinese names.
\_ John, David, and Josh are all christian names? I think you are a
bit confused as to what Christian means.
\_ Is Jesus a Christian name?
\_ why make it sound like the original? as a non-chinese who has lived
in china and studied chinese, i find chinese names that are a weak
imitation of the original sound to be pretty pointless. it's a
different name. just pick a name you like, and forget about
phonetics.
\_ Of course there are. For example, a woman's name of Wendy is not
Christian. Why not go for the most popular non-Christian name
and choose "Mohammed"? --dim
\_ The most common first name in the world is Mohammed. The most
common last name is Wong. I've always wanted to meet someone
named Mohammed Wong.
\_ all chinamen should be called joe. -- a chinaman
\_ pick a name from fantasy or mythology. like Thor, Ulysses,
Conan, Zeus, etc. If I was picking a fake name I'd never want some
mundane joe schmoe name. Pick something with power and panache.
\_ Heh, I actually know a Chinese guy namd Conan. And also 'Valiant'
which was derived from 'Wai Lun'. For girls, I like 'Geneva'.
\_ Soda already has a ulysses.
\_ From now on call me MAX POWER! --Homer
\_ You don't just cuddle with Max Power ... you strap on and
FEEL THE G'S!
\_ Homer: there are three ways to do things... the right way,
the wrong way, and THE MAX POWER WAY!
Bart : Uh, isn't that the wrong way?
Homer: Yes, but faster!
\_ They call me Bruce.
\_ As if you'd get a helpful response asking the CSUA for help
with baby names.
\_ Homer, Bart, Lisa, Margaret, Montgomery, Barney, Apu, Milhouse, etc.
\_ Call me John-Holmes.
\_ http://sunburn.stanford.edu/~knuth/faq.html#asian does this
vaguely have any pronounciation relation to knuth? |
| 2001/10/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:22701 Activity:nil |
10/11 Reading a lot on hedonic relativism.. good stuff which makes
normal americans scream repression. basically it is all related
to AL theory, adaptation level. If our AL grows without bounds we
are unhappy. This is common knowledge throughout history asnd
thus man has placed certain restriction on himself through
religion. These restrictions are intended to increase ones
happiness in the long term by in effect making one unhappy today.
In my mind this makes perfect sense in trying to resolve my
distaste of consumption. Why by little stuff every day when every
4 years I can buy a porsche which I will remember every day. I
will thus remember the sacrifices and remember the pleasure
making me a happier person in the long run. I am sure you have
experiences similar to this.
Well this is what I have called "my way" my religion and honestly
this makes me feal sorry for the people in the islamic world
which run their lives in a similar way in order to maximize their
happiness. How can such a poor country survive??? religion... the
way of life... sacrifices..
I only hope I can find these characteristic in argentina, I
really should plan to get down there next summer, gettin gout of
the US should be top priority, the american way just doesn't
work- it inherintly makes people unhappy thus requiring ever
higher levels of consumptions.
Funny- why has america prospered so much more than other
countries- our religion REQUIRED IT. with no thought of the
consequences, no thought to what happens when the shit hits the
fan how do we deal with it... in other cultures they practice and
honor the situations where the shit hits the fan and lives their
lives accordingly much happier.
BTW this can all be modelled formally using game theory.....
good stuff... comments suggestions
\_ "religion is the opiate of the masses."
\_ If his parents named him Trevor, I bet kinney would be a be-boy
today. |
| 2001/10/6 [Reference/Religion] UID:22657 Activity:nil |
10/5 What you (especially if you are a woman) need to know about Islam:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/islamquotes.htm
Don't censor the Koran, words of the Prophet and his believers. |
| 2001/10/6 [Reference/Religion] UID:22650 Activity:high |
10/5 self explanatory: http://www.truthbeknown.com/islamquotes.htm \_ good. we should not be "tolerant" of religions. we should come down on religion with a heavy, mailed fist of fury for all the shit that it causes. \_ Why not educate everyone instead? Real education, not steeping in dogma. Prisoners who gain an education in prison more rarely become recidivists. The same can be said of societies. \_ plz execute mailed fist on 90% of americans who believe in g0d. ObPersonalReligiousBeliefsvs.ReligionDiscussion \_ Better link: http://www.truthbeknown.com/photos.htm \_ That looks like Blojo in a wig. |
| 2001/9/20 [Reference/Religion] UID:22560 Activity:moderate |
9/20 Some words of wisdom from the Quran:
[at-Taubah 9:123] O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers
who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that
Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
[an-Nisa' 4:74] Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life
of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he
slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore
make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of
those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off
every fingertip of them.
\_ So who says Islam disapproves violence?
\_ The whole problem here is that you are reading these things
litterally, rather than metaphoically. Its like pretending
that poetry is really prose.
These things are really about internal conflicts not external
ones.
\_ I get it. Thanks. Maybe the Islamic extremists are also
interpreting these literally so as to justify their actions. |
| 2001/9/19 [Reference/Religion] UID:22534 Activity:high |
9/19 http://www.binladen.com -- Can somebody say MONOPOLY? \_ "The history of Binladin began in 1931 when Mohammed Binladin founded the company." Wasn't Mohammed the father of Osama? --- yuen founded the company." Wasn't Mohammed bin Ladin the father of Osama? --- yuen |
| 2001/9/18 [Reference/Religion] UID:22509 Activity:high |
9/18 Fewer than 1 in 6 American Muslims are Arabs. Fewer than 1 in 5
Arab-Americans are Muslims.
http://msnbc.com/news/630410.asp?0cb=-81924124
Fewer than 1 in 6 Muslims worldwide are Arabs.
http://www.freep.com/jobspage/arabs/arab7.html
Afghanistans are not Arabs, although bin Laden is an Arab.
Hope this clears up some misunderstanding.
(As an example, there's a big Chinese Muslim restaurant in Milpitas
Square.)
--- yuen
\_ Informing many Americans that Afghanis and Persians are not Arabs
is akin to telling them that not all Asians are Chinese. I'm
reminded here of what happened to non-Chinese people last Spring
during the Hainan affair.
\_ So ALL Asians are Chinese? You mean none of those Asians
are Japanese or Korean? |
| 2001/9/18 [Reference/Religion] UID:22504 Activity:high |
9/18 I really good point was made yesterday. The dumbest thing any american
can do is to harass or in anyway mistreat arab-americans or american
muslims. IF there still are terrorists at large in the US that come
from an arab culture or muslim faith, then the most likely people to
notice them and help bring them to justice are the arab-americans or
american muslims.
Arab-americans and american muslims are everybit as american as anyone
else and we should count ourselves lucky if they pay extra attention
for the good and protection of all of us. The last thing we want is
to make them feel apart from us.
\_ I watched the service in the national cathedral on Friday. When I
saw the imem (Dr. something from the Islamic Society of North
America) and the rabbi walking into the Christian church side-by-
side and delivered their speeches together, I was very touched.
I hope all Americans and all the Jews and Muslims in the Middle
East can see this. I hope all Americans see the President talking
in a mosque yesterday too. (What Bush actually said there is less
important.)
\_ What did he say?
East can see this.
in a Muslim temple yesterday too. (What Bush actually said there
in a mosque yesterday too. (What Bush actually said there
is less important.) |
| 2001/9/17 [Reference/Religion] UID:36325 Activity:nil |
9/16 No, it is not "punishment from God". However, it is important
for Christians to examine why the attack happened. Yes, we
should destroy the terrorist networks. However, this is not
a long term solution because these networks will spring up again
if the underlying resentment and hatred are not reconciled.
We have to ask ourselves if our middle-eastern policies are in
accordance to the teachings of our Lord. Have we been pursuing
material well-being, in the form of a cheap oil supply, at the
expense of the well-being of others? Have we been sacrificing
justice and doing what's right for the sake of our self-interests?
Have we placed our trust in our military might instead of in the
Lord? Have we been mis-using our military might? In our safety
and abundance, have we become indifferent to the sufferings of
others? Have we been worshipping Mammon, the god of money, and
Bel, the god of war, instead of our Lord?
\_ What if there is no God? What if all the lives spent in
persuit of holier-than-thou-because-my-God-is-better
could have instead lived their own lives? Nothing
Absolutly nothing has cost more lives in the
history of humankind than organized religion.
\- i dont think islam today is
particularly well organized. what
do you mean by "organized relig" --psb
\- this is a cliche somewhere between
"the love of money is the root of all
evil" and "capitalism causes imperialism".
btw, people should start saying "evil"
like alec guiness rather than the american
"eevul" ... "ee-ville". --psb
\_ Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Caligula?
What were their faith?
\_ Hitler was insane. Good point on Stalin and Mao:
Marxism is rising in the ultimate body count.
\_ yeah and the inquisition was what? a census count?
\_ Don't forget the crusades. Just your friendly
Christian tourists on holiday from europe.
\_ My point is, do not unthinkingly put the blame on
"organized religion" when the cause is our selfish,
corrupted human nature.
"organized religion" when the cause may be our
own selfish, corrupted human nature.
\_ Maybe the cause is our corrupt and unthinkingly
internalized force-fed social and moral structure.
Perhaps we should re-examine the core tenets of
Judeo-Christian thought and the easy tendency for
too many adherents to blindly accept what is fed to
them on some absurd notion of "Faith". Religion is
a crutch for the weak-minded.
\_ An easy and "smart" out for atheists.
Consider all the universal constants that are
somehow just right for the universe to exist,
talk to an astrophysicist, and ask him/her
how much tolerance there is in those numbers.
Whether you believe in the big bang or not,
there are evidence in the universe that
point towards that it was DESIGNED by someone.
\_ Why don't we start listing all the weak-minded
individuals who believe in the Lord, starting
with Abraham Lincoln, .....
individuals who have faith in the Lord. Let's
start with Abraham Lincoln, ...
\_ As it happens actually, I'm not an atheist.
I'm catholic. But I really depise when idiots
armed with empty platitudes attempt to
sanctimoniously proselytize people to their
rediculous blindly accepting POV. If even
a quarter of the people out there actually
THOUGHT about the structure of the relgion
they ascribed to or the organization that
has indoctrinized them, our world would be
about 10 times better off than it is. Sadly,
"Faith" has become a cheap, drive through
substitute for understanding and intellectual
exploration. Why consider the ramifications
or relevancy of my moral structure when I can
just mainline "Faith" in the "Plan" of the
divine creator? I can't belIEVE that I'm
wasting my time with this. Be happy in your
self-imposed blindess man. Personally, I'm
not going to be complacent and just accept
whatever the current fad is as the Word of God.
\_ bs. I'd believe constants were "designed" if
pi were exactly 3, but otherwise it's
coincidence.
\_ Why don't we start listing all the weak-minded
individuals who have faith in the Lord. Let's
start with Abraham Lincoln, ...
\_ IMAGINE all the PEOPLEEEE . . . LIVING for TODAYYYYYYY . . .
\_ Praise God! May *all* of us be counted worthy. -allenp
\_ This is mild, coming from the God of the Old Testament. If he
really exists, this isn't enough pain and death to serve His
needs. |
| 2001/9/12 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:36284 Activity:nil |
9/12 What movie is that with Denzel Washington where there was terrorism
in America so they had to put Arab Americans in "concentration camps"?
\_ The Siege. This is so similar its eerie.
\_ I doubt there will be concentration camps. However, anti
Arab American sentiment will be there.
\_ I agree. Even Hilter style concentration camps are too
decent for these people.
\_ uh... WTF is that supposed to mean?
\_ Hilter style concentration camps are too decent for these people.
\_ maybe they should put YOU in a "hilter style" camp. |
| 2001/9/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:36281 Activity:nil |
9/12 Some of the muslims you see on TV cheering-- they may or may not
have direct involvement, but they should be ashamed of themselves.
They're like cockroaches. You can exterminate thousands of them,
but there will still be millions left. So whether they're directly
involved or not, they should be exterminated indiscriminantly.
\_ that's just how the Muslims were taught to hate US. --PeterM
\_ Wouldn't you say tha this exactly how Iraqi and Libyan
civilians feel about the U.S.?
\_ Why are we even trying to reason with this racist idiot in the
first place?? How did he even get a soda account? |
| 2001/9/12 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:36278 Activity:nil |
9/12 I'm compiling a list of actions that we can take against the
terrorists. Please add to this list.
1. bomb Afghanistan back into the stone age. They don't have any
natural resources that we need. It's useful as a nuclear test
site though.
\_ Afghanistan is already in the stone age. All we can do is
to make it a big nuclear crater.
2. finish the job with Iraq. After killing saddam, we colonize the
country and take over their oil fields. Put the iraq soldiers to
work in the oil fields.
3. Deal with the palestinian problem once and for all. Move them all
to Iraq and work the oil fields.
4. While we're at it, bomb Iran as well. Take over their oil fields
and put them to work in the oil fields.
5. Send in our very best Christian conversion people. Pat Robertson,
Jerry Falwell, Gary Bauer, etc. It's time for them to abandon
Allah and come to Christ!
6. Deport all non-citizen Muslims and Hindus from the US. To comply
with the US constitution, we can't touch them if they're citizens.
But by god, let's get rid of all the Hindus on H-1 visas. They
all look and smell the same anyway. The US is no place for people
who worship animals like elephants, rats, or Allah.
\_ Is this supposed to be humurous or are you seriously stupid?
\_ hahaha |
| 2001/9/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:36277 Activity:nil |
9/12 Why doesn't the US just remove support from Israel?
Does the fact that roughly 10% of our politicans are
Jewish and none are Muslim have anything to do with it?
Why would removing support for Israel hurt america?
\_ If the wolves are coming for us, I guess I should throw you
to them first since they will probably be full after eating
you and thus won't be interested in me. Great logic.
\_ Becuase a majority of americans are christian, and thus share
a large chunk of stuff with judaism. You cant be christian and
not agree with judaism.
This is not the case for islam.
\_ hi dumbass. you're wrong. you should shut the fuck up,
especially since this is such a sensitive issue. it's one thing to\
keep talking your stupid talk when it's about Java or C++ but when you're
talking about people's lives, just keep to your fucking incompetent self.
especially since this is such a sensitive issue. it's
one thing to keep talking your stupid talk when it's
about Java or C++ but when you're talking about people's
lives, just keep to your fucking incompetent self.
\_ Allah and Yahve (sp?) are the same damn god, its unbelievable
that people can't seem to understand this.
\_ I heard that Jesus Christ also exists in Islam, but he's a
a prophet instead of a son of a god. Is that true?
\_ Correct as stated. -alexf
\_ I heard something similar as well.
\_ Islam : Christianity as Christianity : Judiasm |
| 2001/9/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:22416 Activity:high |
9/12 What I want to know is the percentages behind the Jewish #'s in
the American media and the Muslim percentages in the American
media. Also same with politicians who shape our international
affairs. is it any wonder why we antagonize the arabs then?
\_ Journalists' guide to covering Arab Americans:
http://www.freep.com/jobspage/arabs
\_ I think the average joe isn't even sure whether he should hate Arabs
or Muslims (not to mention he shouldn't hate them collectively in
the first place.) I'm still confused whether or not most Arabs are
Muslims, whether the Islamic world is against US or the Arab world
is against US or both or neither, and so on.
is against US or both, and so on. All I know is
is against US or both, and so on. Should I interpret the TV footage
as "The Arabs cheering on / condemning the attack" or "The muslims
cheering on / condemning the attack". All I think I know is
"ethnic Isralis" are *more or less* the same as "jewish".
cheering on / condemning the attack". Is the Middle East conflict
about Arabs or Muslims? All I think I know is that "ethnic Isralis"
are *more or less* the same as "jewish".
\_ There are Christian Arabs, and non-Arab Muslims. Most Arabs are
Muslims.
I think the real problem is that most people have no clue WHY
these people hate the US, or why some might cheer such an action.
\_ Is it Arabs or is it Muslims whose women cover up their faces
in public?
\_ Muslims, but it's not required by the religion and I don't
know if it's limited to Muslims.
\_ Its the green eyed monster of envy. They hate us because we
are believe in freedom, equality, liberty and our beliefs
have made us prosperous in ways that they can never hope to
achive (mainly because of thier screwed up religious system).
Go ahead tell me I'm wrong and childish etc. Its you who are
wrong, if you believe that somehow this shit is our fault for
doing x to country/people a or support country/people y.
\_ you're not childish, but you are wrong.
It's because of women flaunting themselves about
in public and in films, rampant homosexuality, and
general degeneracy in the USA.
\_ Our way of life, esp. liberty, freedom and equality
require us to tolerate behaviors that we do not agree
with. They hate the ideas of liberty, freedom and
equality (esp. for women).
\_ Exactly my point. They hate our way of life, esp.
the freedom for people to live and do as they chose
so long as it is consistent with civil order. |
| 2001/9/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/Religion] UID:22415 Activity:nil |
9/12 This is depressing:
http://www.sfgate.com/today/0912_chron_muslims.shtml
Regardless of what muslims in the near east did, muslims
here should not be treated like the japanese americans
were during WWII. The enemy may move among them, but they
are not the enemy.
\_ It's getting more and more like "The Siege". |
| 2001/9/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/Religion] UID:22405 Activity:high |
9/12 These people need to die:
<DEAD>sg.news.yahoo.com/010911/1/1fkyw.html<DEAD>
\_ Agreed.
\_ ...Rocket-Propelled Grenades!?!??? "Please fire straight up"
\_ I think it is worthwhile to consider that the Palestinians
live in a situation where the Israelis use guns against people
armed with rocks , etc. Several palestinians have died from
what many would call oppression. Isreal is supported financially
by the US and its not peanuts. For the US to experience needless
violence some could consider justified. I think anyone that is using
violence is awrong. Just something to consider before calling for
the death of people you don't know. - a swede (yeah, one of those
neutral f----rs).
\_ Rock throwers are the ones they put in view of the CNN cameras.
They don't put the armed assassins and carbombers on CNN. The
palestinians aren't human they have lost the right to be treated
and considered as such because of this. I say we wipe them out,
all of them.
\_ Funny, I think Hitler used the same thinking. How quickly
people forget their history. - the swede
\_ the diference being that the jews of the time werent
using weapons to attack people. The palestinians are.
\_ The jews in germany did not chear in the streets when
\_ The jews in germany did not cheer in the streets when
germans civilians die during fire bombings. They were
human beings, those things in palestine are not.
\_ First of all, how the f do you know what every jew
did during those times? Keep in mind, only those
palestinians that are stupid enough to celebrate
the loss of lives are reported on TV. We have the
same kind of morons here in the US walking around
in white sheets celebrating bombings of african
american churches in the US.
\_ Granted some Palestinians may not have been
involved in the celebration, but they are
clearly in the minority throughout the arab
world:
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/afp/article.html?s=asia/headlines/010912/world/afp/_Bullseye___say_Egyptians_as_they_celebrate_anti-US_attacks.html
\_ Second of all, who are you to decide who is human?
It is frightening to think that you are using the
same justifications as were used in WWII to kill
jews, gays, handikapped, gypsies, ...
You and your attide revolt me. I can only hope it is
youth talking. - the swede
\_ It is people with your attitude that sit idly
by while the muslim menace destroys all that is
good in this world. There were people like you
in my country once. When the muslims came and
sacked our temples and homes and murdered our
families these people said, give them room.
We gave them room. They murdered our relatives
and sent their corpses over in trains. They
laughed in the streets, and people like you
said understand them, accept them, its not
thier fault its our fault we must make more
room. We did. It hasn't worked. The time for
inaction and diplomacy is past, the time for
action is now.
------------------/
\_ First of all let me thank you for at least putting your
statements into context. This makes it easier to understand
where you come from.
Let me make it clear that I am not advocating "sitting idly by."
This kind of acts have to be dealt with and most likely force
will be necessary. What I am objecting to is the use of _blind_
rage. You have painted all muslims alike. You are advocating
the killing of innocent people when you call for the death of
celebrating palestinians. Their behavior is as abhorrent as
yours. But all it is, are words, for them and hopefully for you
as well. It may sound like BS but the _right_ people has to be
found and should be punished. Killing the wrong people will just
justify another terrorist attack in the mind of some misguided
suicide bomber/hijacker/whatever.
I hope I can get you to agree that the action that is needed
today has to be deliberate and just. Or, would you rather
that we kill innocent people just so we can say we had revenge?
- the swede |
| 2001/9/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:22392 Activity:insanely high |
9/11 Why is most of the Arab world completely fucked up? What's the problem?
Is it the religion, or the manipulation by totalitarian gov'ts? Or what?
\_ I suspect it's an unfortunate mix of religious fundamentalism
and fucked up middle eastern foreign policy.
\_ Its the religion. That religion has had problem with everyone,
jews, christians, hindus and buddhists. The only solution is
nuke the bastards.
\_ haven't (radical) christians had a problem with everyone too? the
only solution is to totally outlaw religion.
\_ this is the reason why the hell I'm not religious. Historically,
look at how many lives have been lost over religion.
\_ The difference really is that most christians aren't
radically, and even the radicals don't do things like
radical, and even the radicals don't do things like
\_ dipshit. What just happened in Ireland? Again?
\_ One country with problem christians vs. dozens
of countries with problem muslims. These people
need to be eliminated.
this. In comparisions most muslims are radicals, and
if the celebrations in Palestine are any indications,
relish this type of activity.
I still can't believe they were celebrating in Palestine.
Don't they know that if they had anything to do with this
they will be wiped of the face of the earth for all time?
\_ typical, self-centered, holier-than-thou Christian view.
"Christians aren't radically" [sic], "most muslims are
radical." Please.
\_ I'm not christian.
\_ did it ever occur to you that when you see people
in Palestinia celebrating what happened yesterday,
that it might be worth your time to ask why they
were reacting the way they did instead of condemning
them for doing so?
\_ It's the same way fucked up people here cheer
when anything blows up in another part of the
world. Doesn't mean Christians hate the Mid
East or Ireland or Asia or anything...some
people just are like that.
\_ Bullshit. Do the people here cheer when
they hear about the latest bombing in
Israel? it runs deeper than fucked up people
cheering whenever something blows up "over
there."
\_ There is no valid reason for celebrating the
destruction of civilian targets. Those who do
are no better than those who committed this
act.
\_ Nah, don't blame religion when it's your fucking bad-ass
corrupted human nature. Think Stalin, Mao, Hitler,
Caligula, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, etc.
Caligula, Genghis Khan.
\_ The only good muslim I can think of was Akbar. And
even he wasn't that good. Its muslims. They need to
be eliminated. |
| 2001/7/4 [Reference/Religion] UID:21713 Activity:nil |
7/4 From an IMDB summary of "Family Matters":
Summary: I weep
I weep for the cast of Family Matters, who have besmirched their lives
by taking part in this horrible drivel. I weep for the writers, who,
should they be shameless enough, to include this show on their resume,
will ruin their careers forever. I weep for the English language,
which, God willing, will someday recover from the wretched blemish of
the word "Urkel." I weep for the countless children who watched this
show and laughed; it's a human tragedy. Above all, I weep for God.
Having seen Family Matters, I know that He does not exist. |
| 2001/6/30 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Kinney, Reference/Religion] UID:21689 Activity:nil 66%like:21055 |
6/30 [Oh my god, you nuked kinney!]
\_ you bastard! |
| 2001/5/25 [Reference/Religion] UID:21360 Activity:high |
5/25 O motd formatting god, I am in awe of your curious powers. In
appreciation of the gifts you have bestowed on us, I would
like to erect an idol. How would you like to be represented?
\_ You said erect. huhuhuhuh.
\_ The motd formatting god is not a god of idolatry. You shall be
cast down into the depths of 85 column formatting if you whorship
idols. Your spiritual contacts are all to be through the one true
church: /etc/motd.public
\_ 85? Shouldn't it be 80?
\_ Get Thee Back to Thy 40-column Filth! -Motd Formatting
High Priest |
| 2001/5/14 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:21277 Activity:high |
5/14 My rant of the day: What is wrong with you Korean bible bangers?
Stop harassing me... just cuz I'm reading by myself on the lawn
doesn't mean I'm spiritually lost or need salvation. so fuck off.
\_ Korean bible bangers?
\_ Ever been to Golden Bear at 6am? I have (to do some last minute
futile cramming for an 8am exam), and there were a large group
of Koreans doing some sort of bible study. I got the impression
they do this regularly. Seems like every Korean is part of one
of a trillion churches in the neighborhood.
\_ as long as they don't harass you to love Jebus, who cares?
\_ Just call them traitors to shut them up. Ask if their ancestors would
approve of them pushing some white religion. |
| 2001/5/14 [Recreation/Dating, Reference/Religion] UID:21267 Activity:very high |
5/14 I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the
sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate
me, but showing love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me
and keep my commandments. -Exodus 20:5-6
\_ Didn't someone try to pass a bill or something to punish Americans
for the sin of their fathers to the third and fourth generations of
those who enslaved African Americans, and even Americans whose
ancestors immigrated after that era, by paying some amount of
compensation to all African Americans who live today?
\_ attempt to troll, DENIED
\_ man whatever, within a few generations all us immigrants will have
our genes mixed out with white genes.
\_ HOT AZIAN CHIXS!!!1!
\_ Please spell it correctly: H07 4ZN CH1X
\_ Houw about "42N"?
\_ Please spell it correctly: H07 42N CH1X
\_ How about "42N"?
\_ 5P3111NG C0RR3C73D!
vicious cycle.
\_ Hot Asian Chicks!!!
\_ That's why a child who got abused by his father would very likely
be an abuser himself when he grows up and has a kid. Sin begets
vicious cycle. Also read Deut 24:15-17:
sin. Evil begets evil. Accepting Christianity would break the
vicious cycle.
\_ Also read Deut 24:15-17:
"Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children
put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin."
\_ So I guess the real question is, which religion abuses their
children the most. Is it time for another one of those polls?
\_ where does Christianity say anything about not abusing kids? |
| 2001/4/22 [Reference/Religion, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:21055 Activity:nil 66%like:21689 |
4/21 Oh my god! They nuked the motd!
\_ you know, the motd always comes back...
\_ death cannot stop true love, all it can
do is delay it a while.
\_ Those bastards! |
| 2001/4/20 [Reference/Religion] UID:21030 Activity:nil |
4/19 What do you mean Jedi is not a religion?
<DEAD>us.imdb.com/PeopleNews/#10<DEAD>
If Scientology is a religion, then so is the otherwise-known-as-
make-George-Lucas-richer religion of Jedi.
\_ Scientology is not a religion. |
| 2001/4/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:20955 Activity:high |
4/12 This is the first time I find myself agreeing with the
ACLU on something. The separation of church and state:
http://www.aclu.org/news/2001/n041001b.html
\_ god has no place within these walls, just like facts
have no place within organized religion!
\_ so putting atheist views into "these walls" is not the same
thing as putting religion into "these walls" since atheism is
just another religion
\_ The lack of religion in school teaching is not the same as
the promotion of atheism. Schools should be talking about
math, science, literature, and history. Not belief in God
or lack of belief in God. Schools should deal with facts,
not beliefs.
\_ coherency--
\_ if you're trying to argue that atheism is a religion, well
nice flamebait but that's a ridiculous statement.
\_ Atheism is not a religion, but both atheism and theism
are beliefs. As one above poster put it, beliefs have
no place in schools, only facts do.
\_ I agree with the ACLU often, however, they are wrong this time.
There is no reasonable way the first amendment can be interpreted
to say that it is illegal to give out bibles in schools.
\_ There's a difference between "giving out bibles in schools"
(which I disagree with but that's another issue) and the
child in this case who was held up by the teachers as an
object of scorn and ridicule which gives license to the
other kids to make her suffer. I've had a small taste of
what this child was put through. It is wrong to put a
child through this and hypocritical to do so in the name
of Jesus' love. If it was you as a child with the minority
non-conformist view/religion/race/economic status/whatever
in grade school you'd feel differently about it today. I
say again, the school system *should* be about teaching the
"three R's" (plus history and a few other things that don't
start with "R") :-) and nothing else. I don't care if the
case is a first amendment issue or a last amendment issue.
What was done to the little girl was morally wrong. All in
the name of Jesus.... |
| 2001/2/22-23 [Reference/Religion] UID:20649 Activity:moderate |
2/22 http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan I'm speechless. Just...speechless. \_ I dunno what to say except... why hasn't Darwinism eliminated such people yet?!? \_ the more I read the less I could believe it... \_ Brrrr. \_ How many kids do you think this guy has molested? \_ Did you see the counter at the bottom of the peter-pan site? over 240,000 people have seen that man's face. That's about a quarter million; just reading about THAT guy. wow. What a fruitcake. I think he needs a guinea worm. http://www.angelfire.com/ms/guineaworm/index.html |
| 2001/1/3 [Reference/Religion] UID:20221 Activity:nil |
1/2 motd restored. --motd restoration god |
| 2000/12/12 [Reference/Religion] UID:20074 Activity:nil |
12/11 GOD DAMN IT |
| 2000/11/4-5 [Reference/Religion] UID:19640 Activity:very high |
11/3 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20001103/tc/germany_microsoft_dc_1.html What's with those wacky Germans? First David Hasselhoff now this. \_ Go away you scientologist-sympathizer \_ What's in that Scientology religion? Webster dictionary doesn't have the word. \_ Scientology is a cult. For more information, please see http://clambake.com. http://clambake.org. \_ Scientology is some "religion" founded by a science fiction author. I think that says all you need to know right there. \_ Christianity is some "religion" founded by a Jewish carpenter's son. I think that says all you need to know right there. Islam is some "religion" founded by an arab merchant. I think that says all you need to know right there. Judaism was founded by God. I think that says all you need to know right there. \_ ^God^some now-nameless lower-middle-class merchant or local nutcase, probably somewhere around Phoenicia. \_ Uh oh.. motd user with zero history knowledge spewing again.... Maybe next time, eh? \_ Yeah this is one sweet troll right here. \_ this is a troll: i will kick you in the nuts!!!! \_ This whole thread is flame bait right from the start. I was simply hammering the point home. All religions are a total crock. There is no God or Gods. Blind faith is for the weak minded and the oppressed who aren't making it this time around to give them hope for more luck next time. \_ Good thing my faith isn't blind. \_ You seem to miss the my point. I don't understand how the religious affiliation of the CEO (not a even a coder) affects the useability of a given application. Its completely illogical. \_ It doesn't. Their laws make it clear that they won't do business with or use the products of companies associated with Scientology. Period. CEO is a Scientologist? Then there's a pretty serious affiliation. It isn't about code. \_ it should be about kicking people in the nuts. fi the scientologists kicked people in the nuts, \_ It should be about kicking people in the nuts. If the scientologists kicked people in the nuts, they would get kicked in the nuts in return and there would be peace and harmony. \_ [motd typo fixing god was here] It is about business. All business. |
| 2000/10/29-30 [Recreation/Dating, Reference/Religion] UID:19594 Activity:kinda low |
10/28 http://www.foxnews.com/etcetera/071900/glued_organ.sml \_ Smut Markup Language? \_ This has been posed to the MOTD at least once before. \_ Just proves that you should avoid women at all costs. \_ similarly, http://www.foxnews.com/etcetera/medical/032400_annulment.sml "Couples in conservative rural Egypt do not take off all their clothes when they have sex" Now THAT's conservative. \_ No, its all part of the F*ed up Muslim religion. The same religion that forces women to wear black from head to toe, because men are some how incapable of controlling thier urges or some bs like that. |
| 2000/10/13-15 [Reference/Religion] UID:19477 Activity:high |
10/13 Regarding the discussion below, is Muslim the proper term for
those people who live in the Middle East, North Africa, Persia
and follow (to varying degrees) the teachings of Mohamad?
\_ a guy i work with who is one of the brightest, most multitaleneted,
fun to work with , hard working people it's ever been my
privelage to work with is a muslim, and he's from new york.
-a jew who is not a predjudiced asshole
\_ He must not be a practicing muslim, as the attributes
you describe he has are mutually exclusive to the practice
of islam.
\_ Muslim is the name for followers of the religion of Islam.
\_ In my language Mohamad rougly translates to "Exterme Imbicile".
Thus his followers can be refered to as Extereme Imbiciles.
\_ which language, if serious?
\_ The term Mohamaden is used to describe Muslims. This
is general written Maha (meaning great/extereme) and
Mudan (meaning imbicile/idiot) in most Indian languages.
\_ "most" -- indoeuropean or dravidian?
\_ I would say most sanskrit (indoeuropean) based
languages. Dravidian "languages" is somewhat
of an oxymoron, as they are most closely related
to primitive grunting than a real language.
Most scholars consider dravidian "language" forms
to be the native language forms of india, since
sanskirt was introduced much later by the vedic
invaders whose origin is much disputed. |
| 2000/10/13-14 [Reference/Religion] UID:19473 Activity:insanely high |
10/13 What is wrong with those arabs? Bombing American vessels, killing
Israeli soldiers, etc. Do they want to get nuked or what?
\_ enough of this racist bickering. it hurts you know. if you
want to know the two sides, please see--
arab point of view: http://www.middleeast.org
israeli point of view: http://www.jpost.com
\_ What is wrong with those Israelis? Opressing Palestinians,
killing children for throwing rocks, etc. What is wrong with our
government that sends my tax dollars to them every year?
\_ The Israelis did not start the fighting. The criminal
\_ Basically why are the so f'ed up?
PLO keeps inciting them. How do you think this nation
would react if a bunch of thugs kept killing its citizens?
Israelis have shown remarkable restraint despite numerous
provocations.
\_ that's pretty ridiculous. "the fightning" has been going
on for thousands of years. read the bible. it's probably
the only true bit.
\_ restraint? Almost all the deaths over the past three weeks
were Arab deaths. As of this morning, it was 7 Israelis
and 90+ Palestinians that died.
\_ The PLO started the killing. The Israelis are
defending themselves. Besides its all that dick
head Clintons' fault. He pushed the Israelis
and the PLO too far too fast in the hopes of
making himself look good. Its not our place to
force other nations to the peace table.
\_ This is deliberate. The Israelis cannot exchange one
life for another given the population disparities.
\_ what is the intent of your question? is it to incite thought
or comments? it does a pretty poor job. if you're just looking
for an answer, the answer is "no." -ali
\_ why do you appear to be offended ali? It's just a naive
question coming from a stupid ignorameous.
\_ or a troll.
\_ I find it hard to understand why these people feel they
need to resort to such actions. Do they think that they
can be violent without inciting a response? What is it
\_ Several religions are notably peaceful: Hinduism,
Buddhism, Quaker(ism?). Of these only hindus are
willing to take up arms in *extereme* cases.
about that religion that makes people behave in the most
irrational ways?
\_ Because they are completely f'ed up.
\_ let me assume that by "that relgion" you mean "the
arab religion" in which case i would have to reply
with "you fucking imbecile. learn some culture before
you decide you have an opinion about something," thus
swiftly dismissing the discussion. -ali
\_ He means Islam. Most arabs are also Muslims. Don't
be a greater idiot than usual ali.
\_ which is even worse. he's saying that the act
was incited by religion. that's bullshit. i think
culture in general had a lot more to do with it.
if he wants to say "religion has a greater influence
in their culture than anything else" then i'll still
have to call him an idiot. the implied causality
in his question is completely fatuous.
\_ I don't understand why these people act in the
manner that they do. My understanding is that
they are driven by the "will of god" (as they
percieve it), thus I conclude that thier religion
(if you can all it a religion) leads them to it.
There is also historical precedence for followers
that particular "religion" inciting conflicts where
it is unnecessary, the Moors in Spain, the Sultans
in India, etc.
\_ As opposed to the Christians who brought
the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and
numerous other atrocities in the name of
their religion.
\_ Um, as I recall the reformation
corrected most of these problems.
How come there hasn't been a similar
move in islam?
\_ To expect reformation from a
people whose heritage includes
murdering their prophets chosen
successor is the height of stupidity.
\_ palestinians might be driven by the hopeless
desperation intrinsic in being systematically
oppressed and denied fundamental human rights.
think about it.
\_ NOT! The PLO is a bunch of murdering thugs.
They would be criminals whether or not they
were "oppressed". If you wish to speak about
oppressed people in the Middle East, only the
Israelis fall into that category.
\_ israel has violated numerous international
human rights laws. palestinian refugees
don't even have the right to return. look
at the facts. zionism is racism.
\_
Both the Palestinians and the Jews have a reasonable claim to the
same piece of land. Because of various reasons, mostly religious,
a significant minority of each party is not willing to consider
the others position and is willing to resort to any provocation,
including mass murder and terrorism, to advance their agenda.
In such a situation, no peace is possible -ausman
\_ Israel has reacted in the only
fesiable way. If America was
surrounded by enemies we would
arm our borders and take enemy
land to buffer our people as much
as possible. Don't give me that
human rights bs. Israel MPs did
not order hits and bombings on
civilian targets for terrorizing
people into getting what they
want. The PLO did that. They are
criminals and those that stand
with them are criminals also.
\_ you sound like a brainwashed
zionist.
\_ Refute the argument you
anti-semitic pig.
\_ how does anti-semitism
fit into this? it's anti-
zionism.
\_ you sound like a brainwashed
Hamas idiot.
\_ I believe that the terms
"brainwashed" and "idiot"
are superflous when used
to refer to the Hamas.
Membership to that elite
organization requires a
level of mental capacity
which is rarely seen in
most humans (at least ones
that are born with a brain).
\_ No, it's religion in general. All religions are about
equally fucked up. The jews and their state, the
Muslims and their jihad, the Mormons with their preaching/
converting, the Christians with their Crusades.
\_ There are several religions which are peaceful.
Hindus, Buddhists, Quakers.
\_ Hindus have a reputation for fighting. Well, India
does, to say the least. Put three hindus in a room
and you get three points of view.
\_ Disagreement is different than resorting to
violence. Hindus are extremely risk averse,
and will chose to take up arms only if all
other options have failed.
\_ Religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded
people who need strength in numbers.
\_ If you believe this, you do not understand
religion. Read a book by Joseph Campbell and
perhaps you will understand. Oops, I forgot
you and your WWF brothers don't know how to
read.
\_ I am very well read in Joseph Campbell.
Jesse may or may not have good reasons for
his belief, but the idea itself is sound.
\_ How can it possibly be sound? Please
clarify.
\_ Let's take religions that define a god.
None of these gods exists as described.
\_ What Campbell books have you read?
I'm not sure how you arrived at
this conclusion, but you have not
understood eastern religions at
all, specifically hinduism. In
hinduism God is defined as
all that is. Only God exists,
all else is just an aspect of
God.
\_ Arguing about hinduism and many
Eastern religions can get very
hairy (many are more philosophies
than religions), and becomes
distracting from the core
argument.
When we talk about traditional
Christianity, the notion that
the Christian God does not exist
is much more self-evident.
\_ From my readings of christian
texts written by christian
saints, the concept of God
is similar to that of many
eastern religions. I think
that perhaps the traditional
Catholic or Protestant view
of God may be incomplete
though.
\_ From my reading of the Bible,
the Christian God is an
entity as well as a concept.
This entity does not exist.
\_ I admit that I have not
read the bibile in its
entirity. Perhaps the
entity as described
there in does not exist.
But the original post
does not specify a
Christian God.
\_ Is it not safe to assume
that Jesse Ventura is
speaking of, for the
most part, Christians?
I didn't read the whole
Bible either; it's
pretty clear after a
few chapters, though,
that the Christian God is
put forth not only as a
concept but an entity.
\_ The US isn't going to nuke anyone ever again. The political
fallout just ain't worth it.
\_ This is a policy started by Truman. He was too scared to
use the bomb that he hampered his generals in Korea from
decisively winning that conflict leading to the diminished
usefulness of our most powerful weapons.
\_ Are you intentionally being a complete idiot? You might
as well have said, the unfortunately outcome of WWII lead
to the termination of Auschwitz as the most powerful
killing machine the world has ever seen. Follow that by,
can we just release biological weapons over the general
vaccinity of the middle east? I'll bet you'd like to
torture POW's, too.
\_ You misunderstand my point. Why should we have weapons
if we are too afraid to use them?
\_ We SHOULDN'T HAVE NUKES!
\_ I totally agree. We should replace our tactical
nukes with space based weapons platforms. Big
Guns in the Sky that can defend America's
freedom from her enemies whereever they be.
\_ If you play Civilization III, you'll realize the precedence
of power in different civilizations:
military units < religion < mass media < lawyers + injunctions
To advance in civilization, you must research research research.
As you approach industrialization and information revolution,
you need units that are more deadly than the previous era but
at the same time pose less physical threat. Religion served
well as a weapon, but that era is over.
\_ lol! Civilization III does not exist yet. It's Civ: CTP. |
| 2000/10/13-15 [Reference/Religion] UID:19471 Activity:very high |
10/13 Does the term Arab apply to all the middle eastern people? Or is
it more specific or more generic than that? Does it imply religion
(e.g. Muslim) in which case includes most of the middle eastern
countries EXCEPT Israel?
\_ arab is not synonymous with middle eastern. nope, not at all.
many countries which aren't in the middle east have substantial
arab populations, such as much of northern africa.
it has nothing to do with religion-- there are muslim arabs,
christian arabs, jewish arabs, atheist arabs, whatever.
i think irani people don't consider themselves arab, or something
like that.
\_ You're mostly right. Most Iranians (not Irani, but who cares?)
consider themselves "Persians", but there are also Iranian
Arabs. Mostly from the south, where the oil is. There is
tension between Persian and Arab Iranians. House of Kabab is
owned by an Arab Iranian, but he considers himself Arab first.
Arabs usually speak Arabic, so that's an easy way to tell.
Afghans and Iranians don't speak Arabic (as their first tongue),
and they don't consider themselves Arabs.
\_ As far as I'm concerned, Israelis == Arabs.
But I'm a stupid 'Merican so hey.
\_ yah they are all just a binch of camel jockey sand niggers
anyway right? Fucking idiot.
\_ Cool it jewboy. It's just some Hatfields + McCoys shit.
and the way all them nationalistic fundamentalists
act, man, it's more like "sand _honkeys._"
Israelis == Arabs == Bible-beatin' Southerners.
troll troll troll troll!
\_ hey look at the cute little oriental girl!
\_ Ali AlabedAlafaelMohammedAhalaha Rahimi, you wanna answer this?
\_ what about the Iraqians?
\_ What about them? Shitheads lead by So-dam Insane.
Arab (n): An Arabic-speaking gentile-ass who lives in Arabia or
\_ so what about the Iranis or the Saudians? How they
differ from Israelians? More moderate than the Jordani?
\_ Sorry to inject reality into this discussion, but:
Arab (n): An Arabic-speaking person who lives in Arabia or
North Africa
(Therefore not Israeli). -tom
\_ As usual, you are an idiot. Tell the Syrians and Iraqis that
they are not Arabs for me.
\_ changing "person" to "jewass" or "gentile-ass" is
juvenile and boring. -tom
\_ defining Arab, as if it needed defining, is juvenile
and boring. The song "Ha" is Juvenile and boring.
But "gentile-ass", while juvenile, is not boring. ha!
\_ They are not Arabs, they are camel jockeys or sand
n*grs (whichever racial slur you prefer)
\_ Regardless nationalistic fundamentalists are the same the world
over, they freakin' SUCK ASS.
\_ muslims are not synonmous with arab btw
\_ E.g. Malaysia and Indonesia are Islamic SE Asian countries.
\_ note how there are no muslim 1st world countries. wonder if
it's mutually exclusive
\_ Note that there are no Indian 1st world countries. wonder if
it's mutually exclusive
\_ To build a 1st world nation requires intelligence, rationality,
tolerance, humanity etc. These attributes are completely
orthogonal to the muslim nature.
\_ What about the era of Persia? It was more "1st world" than
Europe at that time.
\_ They were Persians, not (as you might say), dirty Arabs.
\_ yeah, before Islam took over and ruined it
\_ What about it? Alexander the Great conqured Persia,
and then the Romans and later on the Russians. Face
it, the height of Muslim glory came during Akbar's
reign in India. Even then, he entrusted the daily
affairs of empire to a Hindu, because he felt (and
stated in writing) that no muslim could ever posses
the requisite intelligence to run an empire.
\_ Your lack of historical knowledge is disturbing.
The Arab empires during the "Dark Ages" in Europe
were larger, more civilized, and longer lasting
than any Christian empire.
\_ Perhaps in the years between the fall of the
eastern empire and the beginning of the
renasiance arab nations were better organized
than european ones, but only marginally so.
Even during the height of thier power, muslim
rulers outside of india ran countries in which
\_ Does this qualifier makes any difference?
the average citizen was quite poor and had little
freedom. They can hardly be considered 1st world
as superior civilizations existed in non-muslim
dominated parts of the the world at the same time.
\_ Alexander never conquered Russia and such country did not even
exist yet. A collection of feudal city states that later united as
Kievan Rus' more or less has been paying off the Mongols to leave
them alone for 300 years but as the Kievan Rus' government seat was
in Kiev, you could just as well argue that it was actually the
ancient Ukraine. There was neither Moscow (only 850 years old) nor
St.Petersbourgh (negligiable age). Few of those cities are now in
Russia, but they were never a capital of any country by such name.
What I believe to be the oldest of the bunch, called Novgorod was
actually a democracy. (strangely, it means "new town", not to be
confused with my hometown Nizniy Novgorod ( "lower new town" ) that
was build later than this, but still before Moscow. Could you have
ment Genghis Khan? The Mongols weren't much of conquerers, because
they never could live in a town for more than a couple of days, but
\_ "a couple of days" is enough time to wrap you in blankets
as stomp on it with horses as a token of honor.
they obviously didn't lose any time. Slavs are supposed to be blond.
All it really took to kicking them out was to stop mutual backstabbing
that's all. -muchandr
\_ One day an old polish jew, living in Warsaw, has his last light
bulb burn out. To get a new one he'll have to stand in line for
two hours at the store (and they'll probably be out by the
time he gets there), so he goes up to his attic and starts
rummaging around for an old oil lamp he vaguely remembers seeing.
He finds the old brass lamp in the bottom of a trunk that has
seen better days. He starts to polish it and (poof!) a genie
appears in cloud of smoke.
"Hoho, Mortal!" says the genie, stretching and yawning, "For
releasing me I will grant you three wishes."
The old man thinks for a moment, and says, "I want Genghis
Khan resurrected. I want him to re-unite his mongol hordes,
march to the Polish border, and then decide he doesn't want
the place and march back home."
"No sooner said than done!" thunders the genie. "Your second
wish?"
"Ok. I want Genghis Khan resurrected. I want him to re-unite
his mongol hordes, march to the Polish border, and then decide
he doesn't want the place and march back home."
"Hmmm. Well, all right. Your third wish?"
"I want Genghis Khan resurrected. I want him to re-unite his--"
"OK OK OK. Right. What's this business about Genghis Khan
marching to Poland and turning around again?"
The old man smiles. "He has to pass through Russia six times."
\_ Every who lives in the Middle East is Middle Eastern, but Arabs and
Israelis are Semitic and Persians are not. The former two could never
find any chemical / biological warfare agets that worked on one but not
the other, and not for the lack of trying... -muchandr
\_ John, I forgot I owed you an explanation on Czechs. The Czech
design bureau is Tatra (they did do trucks, but are not Russian),
the firm who hired them was the new Bugatti under Romano Artioli,
and yes, correct again, they are currently buiding 18 cilinder
monsters under Bugatti label for VW AG, whose Ferdinand Piech, by
the weirdest fluke is the designer of Audi Quattro yet majority
shareholder of Porshe and direct descendant of Ferry Porshe. Porshe
had to finally part ways with the aircoled boxer 6 in 911, which was
getting too hot and too noisy at three something liters displacement
and switch to watercooling like the rest of the wold, so imagine
their surprise when they found out that the Czech government Tatra
limosines, that were absolutely silent is actually an aircooled 8 of
some 4 or 5 liter displacement. That was probably the largest modern
aircooled car engine. Very impressive. EB110 supercar was theirs, and
the new ones you can find at http://www.bugatti-cars.de I don't think
VW would've dared a crack at Bugatti themselves. They were already
scared shitless of having to do Bentleys and Lamborginis ...
-muchandr |
| 2000/10/1 [Reference/Religion] UID:19384 Activity:nil |
10/01 Muslims attacked by Jews again. You can't trust those zionist
SOBs. |
| 2000/9/28 [Reference/Religion] UID:19354 Activity:nil |
9/27 mmtd formating(sic) god was here. |
| 2000/9/28 [Reference/Religion] UID:19351 Activity:nil |
9/27 motd formating god was here. |
| 2000/6/5-6 [Reference/Religion] UID:18419 Activity:high |
6/5 http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2000/06/04/stifgnusa01007.html Somebody who knows more about physics comment on this. I checked Dr Raymond Chiao here at UCB and he seems legit. But I haven't found any info on Dr. Lijun Wang supposedly from Princenton. Is it possible that the speed of light has finally been broken???! \_ I know Raymond Chiao, he's christian and did send signals faster than speed of light. \_ What does his religion have to do with the speed of light? \_ If God thinks you're a righteous dude, he loosens up and lets you break the laws of physics every now and then. \_ Not really. Some things can travel much faster than the speed of light. Gravitational forces are instantaneous over large distances. \_ God is the coolest dude around. \_ Christians always tell the truth. -- A Christian \_ yeah, christians said the world was flat too. \_ and u suckers fell for it. \_ Xtians do all the real discoveries, while atheist just cheat on their wives - Dr. laura \_ The idea here is that the pulse shape is reconstructed on the other end of the chamber such that it seems to coexist with the pulse entering the chamber, thus giving the impression that it's travelling faster than the speed of light. However, it's possible that the leading edge of the pulse is entering the chamber earlier in time than the perceived pulse location. Thus, it's still impossible to transmit information faster than c... ie.,laws of physics still preserved. \_ The physics is beyond me, but wouldn't the experiment have taken that possibility into account? Can't wait for a 5 minute trip to another star.... \_ Bah. die-hard einsteinians make more and more twisted theories. to make up for when it looks like they are not right. For example, "xyz doesnt go faster than light. 'SPACE' contracts". And yet they also say there's no such thing as 'space'. After a while, they get to sounding more like flat-earth apologists. Or Ptolmeic thinkers. Retrograde! |
| 2000/3/26 [Reference/Religion] UID:17856 Activity:low |
3/26 http://www.stl-online.net/thc/med/diseases/tcdi074.jpg \_ "Patient refused treatment." Oh my God! |
| 2000/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/Religion] UID:17634 Activity:very high |
2/25 Another victory for the stupid religious conservatives:
http://www.nandotimes.com/noframes/story/0,2107,500173441-500224534-501074649-0,00.html
-PeterM
\_ So people who don't agree with you are stupid, eh? Sigh.
-emarkp
\_ Since when was non-marital sex a crime?
\_ bad link. The only "religious conservative" type one I can find
is
http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/0,1038,500173553-500224719-501076852-0,00.html |
| 2000/1/20 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/Gay, Reference/Religion] UID:17275 Activity:low |
1/19 A related question to the homo marrieages/Christian thread below.
A while back there was a contraversial play where Jesus had sex
with all 12 of his disciples. You know, during the last supper.
It was a big gay orgy. Anybody remember the name of the play?
\_ I remember there was a big discussion about Jesus and John
as lovers. |
| 1999/12/28-29 [Reference/Religion] UID:17109 Activity:moderate 61%like:18514 |
12/28 [Motd summarised for your convenience] -motd summary god (tom)
\_ Not tom you fuckwit. Tom doesn't do summaries. He wipes.
"(tom)" removed. Add your own comments, don't change mine.
-motd summary god (not tom) |
| 1999/11/25-27 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Reference/Religion] UID:16953 Activity:high |
11/25 Today I give thanks that I am not a h0zer.
\_ It's TG and you're writing on the motd. Thus, you are a h0zer.
And a lamer as well.
\_ "Lest he without sin cast the first stone...."
\_ "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...."
\_ Duh, gee whiz you're clever. I never claimed not to be a
h0zer or lamer. I also didn't go on the motd to proclaim
it. Also, you're misquoting the Bible. If you're going to
bother quoting garbage at least quote it properly.
\_ Who said it was a quote from the Bible, lamer?
\_ Of course it's a Bible quote. Don't even try to
pretend you didn't fuck up the Bible quote. Don't
try to go there. This isn't 3rd grade anymore.
\_ Today I give thanks that my account has not been sorried.
all pre-tg crap removed.
\_ Tom? |
| 1999/9/22-24 [Reference/Religion] UID:16569 Activity:high |
9.23 http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Node/4081 \_ It looks like a troll and smells like a troll. Does anybody know if it's legit? \_ Does anyone even THINK it's legit? Duh! It's a GeoCities site! |
| 1999/7/13 [Reference/Religion] UID:16118 Activity:kinda low |
7/12 http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/NATION/UPDATES/lat_darwin990712.htm \_ DOWN WITH THOSE FUCKING ANTI_EVOLUTIONISTS!!1! \_ "Polls consistently show that at least 44% of Americans believe God created life as described in Genesis: Over the course of six days, He separated day from night and created every species of life, culminating with Adam and Eve. A roughly equal percentage accept evolution but think God had a hand in guiding it. Only about 10% believe in strict evolution, unaided by external forces." God bless democracy. \_ Stupidity regarding science/religion has nothing to do with democracy. Where'd you get that idea from? I don't deny that the average citizen is a complete dolt, but I don't see where democracy has anything to do with it. Doltishness is an equal opportunity politically neutral condition. \_ According to Plato (and many agree with him), democracy is the second worst form of government (the worst being tyranny). Furthermore, the United States is not a democracy, but an oligarchy. -- ilyas \_ We're supposedly a republic, not an oligarchy. --dim \_ Right. -- ilyas |
| 1999/1/11 [Reference/Religion] UID:15204 Activity:moderate |
1/10 http://www.catholicpriest.com - tpc \_ how is this interesting or informative? \_ yeah that's right, sexless geeks are a dime a dozen around here, we don't need to see more. - tpc as if most people haven't already been sent that assinine questionnaire 36 times. \_ Right. But for AI people, it IS interesting, as an indication of a possible common(not neccessarily 100%) algorithm for human data storage. \_ get a fucking clue. \_ Look asshole. If you're going to delete something, delete it all the way. Now I am curious about the questionniare. \_ it was probably that stupid "put names of people you know on lines 1-4, and then yer mom's bra size on line 5, the length of your dick on line 6" etc. -tom |
| 1998/12/20 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Reference/Religion] UID:15133 Activity:high |
12/20 Our president has been impeached. God help us all.
I don't know what we're gonna do without him. After all,
he DOES run the country. He said so.
\_ God intended to have him impeached. Let that be a
lesson for all you sinners out there.
\_ Those of us across the pond are looking at passing ourselves off as
Canadian again... -John |
| 1998/11/14-16 [Reference/Military, Reference/Religion] UID:14957 Activity:moderate |
11/13 Hello UN Weapons inspector. Thanks for not inspecting us in the past
couple of days, giving us ample time to hide our weapons of mass
destruction. Feel free to inspect us now. Thanks.
\_ hello again UN Weapons inspectors. I'm so glad you fell for this
crap for a third time. Nobody thought you would.
Now would you might bending over just a *little* more?
\_ Lucky Inspectors, bending over
\_ There seems to be a lot of backslash against Muslim countries and
its leadership. Muslim is a good religion and you guys should have
more respect for its belief. -muslim #1
\_ This guy isn't Muslim, just a fake. If he was Muslim,
he would have said "Islam is a good religion."
\_ No, just against the ones that blow up airplanes and
eat babies and burn US flags. We like bombing non-muslim
countries who do that also, nothing personal. -John |
| 1998/10/6-7 [Reference/Religion] UID:14741 Activity:kinda low |
10/06 http://www.timecube.com You are too brainwashed to know Nature's Time Cube \_ I want to win the $1,000 prize -- four cesium clocks and four Iridium phones should do. |
| 1998/9/21-22 [Reference/Religion] UID:14644 Activity:moderate |
9/21 update your life entries - The Life God
\_ I challenge the life god to a cage fight. My penis is bigger.
-John
\_ huh?
\_ /usr/local/csua/pub/life, ye who is only but a babe
\_ alas, ye phat and greeeeeeeeeasy citizens,
/csua/pub/life is a shorter yet sufficient path.
trainest thou harder. thy fu is as the gossamer
\_ hey, my fu is special.
\_ Your fu is girly fu |
| 1998/8/26 [Computer/SW/Unix, Reference/Religion] UID:14517 Activity:kinda low |
8/26 What the hell is going on with the SPAM!?
Either finger is open, or there's some sellout has given our logins
to some religious freak group on the net...
\_ apparently the return address is real, BOMBS AWAY!!!!
\_ Actually, I sold your login to the religious freak groups in hopes
of raising some extra cash (money's been a little tight lately,
since yermom doesn't have the drawing power she used to . . . )
\_ Rumor has it that she's gone in for that new pussy
tightening surgery. Only time will tell. |
| 1998/8/11 [Reference/Religion] UID:14442 Activity:nil |
8/7 More de-trollification.
\_ trollification? Our english department is so good that we have
earned the god given right to make up our own words.
\_ Trollification is a perfectly cromulent word. - tpc
\_ i think you mean to say promulent.
\_ ...and we can't hyphenate "god-given" when using it
as an adjective? |
| 1998/7/22-24 [Reference/Religion] UID:14367 Activity:high |
7/20 Boredcast Message from soda!kaychng (ttyPr) at 19:29 ...
by the way i'm not racist...
i eat out my old roomate who's white...
well actually he's jews but he's the coolest
guy I have never met.
\_ I ate a Chinese Orthodox Jew once.. Mmm.. Jewtastic... |
| 1998/6/18-19 [Reference/Religion] UID:14224 Activity:high |
6/16 Oh my god mlee is gay!!!
\_ nope. he is a bi.
\_ or just a freak
\_ a bi? i thought he was THE bi.
\_ well gee, duh
\_ oh my god cmlee is a twink |
| 1998/3/2-3 [Reference/Religion] UID:13742 Activity:very high |
3/01 Go see Dark City. Rocks. -muchandr
\_ I can change reality, but I can't make myself a body nor can I
make myself not need a body. I need to find Descartes first.
\_ It was interesting, I'll give you that. But I'm glad I didn't
pay any money to see it.
\_ My Holy Bible is far more educational and life affirming.
\_ My Holy Bible is far more educational and life affirming.
|_ Please don't deface other people's comments the way my "Holy
Bible" was changed to "asshole". If you aren't interested in
eternal salvation, that's your business, but it's highly
inappropriate and uncalled for to mangled my comments like that.
I've never done anything to hurt you.
\_sign yer post
\_ My copy of Dianetics is far more educational and life affirming.
\_ My asshole is far more educational and life affirming. |
| 1996/2/20 [Reference/Religion] UID:31827 Activity:nil |
2/20 All are commanded to OBEY the gospel:
2 Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house
of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them
that obey not the gospel of God?
How does one OBEY the death, burial, and ressurection?
- simple.. no one can except Christ who is God,
thus, just obtain God's life and you
will have the capacity to do so. - turin
I AM SATAN, FEAR ME!!!! -- 666
- Or you can accept freewill and responsibility for your
own actions, resist brainwashing, and get on with
your life.
\
KA - Fong's peaceful life in the country is soon disrupted when the
Eight Demon Swordsmen start killing, crippling, and then kidnap Fong's
wife. He takes up his sword again, and the slaughter begins. More of
the same [as in One-Armed Swordsman].[A |
| 12/24 |