Reference RealEstate - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Reference:RealEstate:
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/08/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2004/3/16-17 [Reference/RealEstate, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:12704 Activity:kinda low
3/16    Is anyone in the CSUA presently living in any of the North Side
        coops on Ridge or across the street from Soda?  If so, please email me.
        I need a current coop member with clue as a point of contact to
        facilitate bringing *massive* bandwidth to the coops. -dans
        \_ Where were you 10 years ago when *I* needed you?
           \_ Hobnobbing with the sexy technoelite.
              \_ Pretty much, yes.  That's why I'm in a position to do this
                 now. -dans
        \_ You really want to do business with people who dont pay their bills?
           \_ If it gets paid by the central office, there's no problem
              \_ Yes it is a problem.  Like I said, why do business with people
                 [Yes, yes, very clever of you to keep replacing neocons
                  with jews, very amusing, now fuck off.]
                   \_ this little side bit about jews & neocons is a motdedit
                      merge failure, right?
                 who don't pay their bills?
                 \_ CO pays the bills on time.  Don't confuse the USCA (very
                    lucrative/well funded organization that provides housing
                    to students at a reasonable cost) with the actual people
                    living in the coops.  You think the coops are really self
                    \_ I was there for several years, served on the board,
                       several committees, met with their lawyers, george
                       proper, and several other jack offs.  I know exactly
                       how the coops are governed.  Another concern is how
                       you'll bring wiring into the house without it being
                       stolen.  My house bought *1* cable tv connection and
                       *everyone* had cable in their room.  How do you think
                       that happened?  And yes my house paid the *1* bill on
                       time every month without mommy's help in CO.
                       \_ I don't think you're suggesting people would steal
                          CAT-5.  If you're suggesting co-opers would steal
                             \_ Then the co-ops can pay for every room.  Like
                                90% of everyone would use it anyway.
                    living in the coops.  You think the coops are really self
                          service, that seems pointless.  The co-op could just
                          pay UCB for access for the whole building and then
                          everyone could use it.
                          \_ Nah, they'd charge per room like everything else.
                 \_ I was saying the CO pays their bills, but the individual
                    houses might be run by fuck-ups.  So if the billing goes to
                    CO it will be paid on-time.  Their main finance person is
                    Margie Greene <>  Talk to her and she'll
                    point you to other people who can make this happen.
2004/3/8 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:12565 Activity:nil
3/8     One of my fuse in my apartment has started to trip quite often
        recently when using the microwave.  It hasn't tripped at all for
        about 2 years I've been there until recently, and not much has been
        added to the circuit.  The fuse switch for this cicuit has "15" on it,
        which I'm guessing is the amperage?  Would it be *relatively* safe to
        try switching it to say, "20" or is there something else I can do?
        Almost rest of the fuses in the apartment are rated at 20 and up.
        \_ Are they fuses or circuit breakers?  If the latter, you can try
           replacing the circuit breaker, IFF you are comfortable working around
           very high voltages-- the main line coming into the box is hotter
           than your average receptacle.
           \_ If it is a rented apartment you might want to call the landlord
              and get him to fix it.
        \_ sodauser-Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha died in His Apartment Building on level 3.
           Killed by 15 amps of current while replacing a fuse.
        \_ Yes it means 15.  Call an electrician since you obviously don't
           know what you're doing.  Touch the wrong thing and you can die.
           Or call your landlord and have him call an electrician.  I don't
           know who you are but I don't want to find out by reading about it
           in the paper.  "STUDENT FRIES SELF!"
           \_ it's not so much that he'll fry himself, it's that he may burn
              the apartment building down.  Frying himself would be evolution
              in action. -tom
              \_ no, it would only prove he is unsuited to an environment where
                 dealing with high voltage is a survival requirement.
                 \_ thank you, NERFAMC.
        \_ what probably happened is that you or your roommate moved the
           plug to one your fridge is hooked up to. try another plug.
           \_ or kill your roomie.  thatll save a lot of power, too.
2004/3/3-5 [Science/Disaster, Reference/RealEstate] UID:12512 Activity:kinda low
3/3     I'd like to separate my living room to make it into a room. However
        I don't want to put studs+dry walls as my landlord may not like it.
        What are other alternatives that gives you good separation (visually
        real looking walls vs. paper ones) and is not too permanent? Do they
        have thin materials that look good? Thanks.
        \_ home depot.
        \_ cubicle walls
        \_ I like nice Japanese paravans but they don't give you a "real"
           wall.  -John
        \_ I created temporary walls that used a simple system of bolts to stay
        \_ I create temporary walls that used a simple system of bolts to stay
           wedged into the ceiling without leaving a mark. Email me if you want
           details. It worked very well, though I doubt it was earthquake safe.
           During the boom, I sublet out the resulting space so that I could
           details. It worked very well, though I doubt it was earthquake safe.
        \_ Tall cabinets.
           manage my own exorbitant rent.
            -- ulysses
2004/2/26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:12410 Activity:nil
2/24    NM is where they do all the latest/greatest scientific breakthroughs
        relating to physics and what not, and it's also a place where really
        smart scientists live. Here is my question. How the heck do they
        [the gov] keep all these brilliant minds in one of the most boring,
        ugly, and inhospital places in the U.S.?
        \_ there are far more physicists on the east and west coasts in total.
        \_ what are you smoking?  Santa Fe & Taos are nice, and there is lots
           of nice stuff to do around Los Alamos if you're a person who
           appreciates the outdoors...
           \_ There are lots of scientists in Albuquerque, too, Sandia
              National Laboratory is there, as well as some of Air Force
              Research Laboratory.  And Albuquerque is not exactly a peach
              of a city.  Still, it's livable, and it's nice to be able to
              have a job and afford a house.  Many other locations of labs
              such as LLNL and LBL have real problems with housing.
              \_ LLNL is in the middle of nowhere.  You can get housing there.
                 \_ Not according to scientists who've tried.  Sure you can
                    get housing further away, but then you have to deal
                    with all that traffic going into Silicon Valley EVERY
                    FUCKING MORNING.
                    \_ What does SV have to do with LLNL?  Do you have any clue
                       where the lawrence LIVERMORE national lab is located?
                       If your scientist friends are so fucking stupid they're
                       looking for LIVERMORE housing in the SV area then they
                       are far too stupid to work in a lab.  I live near the
                       LIVERMORE lab and I've looked at housing in LIVERMORE
                       and the towns around LIVERMORE and there's plenty of
                       housing in the LIVERMORE area.
                       \_ Livermore is not really cheap anymore, but Tracy
                          sure is.
                          \_ Livermore is a mix of cheaper older housing and
                             newer expensive-but-very-nice-for-what-you-paid
                             housing.  Apartments are always available for the
                             single nuclear scientists out there.  Tracy is
                             nearby, cheap, and the next up-and-coming town in
                             the area.  There are also several other new
                             developments for those with more money all within
                             20 minutes of LLNL.  A single person can get
                             Livermore housing.  A family person can get
                             decent housing within 20 minutes.  A person of
                             moderate means can get anything in the area, a lot
                             it is very nice.  I'm still baffled at the SV
                             comment.  SV is not the center of the universe.
        \_ The govt wants to make sure that there are no hot chicks for
           the scientists to sleep with, so that the details of the next
           generation nuclear devices don't slip out of their mounts in bed.
                \_ for some reason I think this is a more plausible
                   explanation than the first two.
                    \_ You think wrong.  There are hot women here.  -PeterM
                       \_ They're all spies.  The MiB will be visiting you and
                          your NKD 'girlfriend' this evening.
                          \_ Oooh!  Threesome!
                             \_ Sort of.  More like an orgy of pain at their
                                secret love nest in Cuba.
        \_ Probably because aside from the gov, there just aren't that many
           places hiring these kinds of scientists. Working for the gov is
           bound to be more relaxed too.
           \_ More relaxed than what?  I talked to some contractor types
              recently about their working environment.  I've got a "todo"
              list with 20+ items and all of them are "important".  The
              contractor has a "todo" list of maybe 5.  I'm juggling a lot
              of stuff all the time and people are constantly coming to me
              for help.  I do not feel relaxed, I feel harried.  --PeterM
              \_ No one works hard for the government.  That's the point.  If
                 you feel harried try working in industry where even if you
                 and everyone else works their ass off and does a good job you
                 might still lose the contract, your job, or the whole company.
                 I've done government work.  It's totally slack.
                 \- the port of oakland != research lab
                    \_ whats the port of oakland have to do with anything?
                 \_ I told you, I talked to contractors who work in industry.
                    It's as I said, I'm more harried than they are.  It's to
                    the point where I think industry would be MORE relaxed.
                    I make no claims about gov't in general though.  We are
                    on a different system here.  We get paid according to
                    what we produce:  I got a 10% incentive pay increase
                    last year, they make an effort to make pay proportional
                    to production:  anyone who wants more money can get it
                    by working harder and/or better.
                    \_ Contractors don't work anywhere.  Talk to full timers.
                       If you're one of the very few people working hard for
                       the government then you missed the whole point of
                       government work.
                 \_ so do you get a busy sex life also?  or are they also on
                    your to-do list?
                    \_ So-so.
2004/2/19 [Finance/Banking, Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Investment] UID:29825 Activity:kinda low
2/19    So I invested my life savings and took out a second mortgage
        on my house to buy EMRG, just like the motd told me to. Now
        my broker says he is doing something called a "margin
        call" and my wife wants a divorce. What should I do?
        \_ When there's something strange
           In your neighborhood
           Who ya gunna call?
        \_ that post for EMRG was when it was at $1.60, now it's
        at $2.80? learn to take profits.. or never get in after the
        \_ You, sir, are an asshat.
2004/2/10-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:12199 Activity:high
2/10    If you are just an independent agent (real estate, travel, etc.) that
        sells a product for other companies but never really stock it in
        you own warehouse, do you need to get a seller's permit?   -- confused
        by the rules' wording.
        \_ Depends on the product. Real Estate requires a real estate license,
           but not a sellers permit. Sellers permit is for hard goods.
           \_ What about an independent agent who sells hard goods for others,
              i.e. he negotiates and arranges for the transaction, but unlike
              a distributor he never sees or stocks the product himself?
2004/2/6-7 [Reference/RealEstate, Recreation/House] UID:12128 Activity:moderate
2/6     Anyone have experience with taking a former landlord to Small Claims
        Court?  I just got our itemized statement of damages from moving out
        of our old place, and the landlord is including $1750 for complete
        carpet replacement.  The carpets did *NOT* need to be replaced --
        they weren't pristine when we moved out (wear in high-traffic areas,
        small stains), but they weren't pristine when we moved in, either.
        Unfortunately, pre-existing carpet problems weren't something I noted
        during our move-in walkthrough, and the carpet wasn't discussed during
        our move-out walkthrough, either (beyond the understanding that the
            \- this is what you should base your claim on. it is ipso facto
               unreasonable not to mention a $1000 item at the joint walk
               through. you willl certainly win if the fact you state are
               accurate. you may be able to get "jerk around" damages.
               since you are out of the country, this will be an asspain of
               course. i would write the landlord a demand letter [which will
               improve your case too] and have it sent from a usa address.
               be sure to specify a time by which you want a reply ... say
               two weeks. --psb
        last thing I'd do before I left would be to steam-clean the carpets).
        I can present witnesses (friends who helped us move) to attest to the
        condition of the carpets on move-in, but given my lack of backing
        paperwork, am I pretty much screwed?
        \_ Got pictures?  Got a receipt for the steam cleaning?  And more
           important than any evidence, do you live in Berkeley or San
           important than any evidence, do you live in Berkeley of San
           Francisco?  If so, then you should always take your landlord to
           court, no matter how right s/he is because you'll probably win
           despite all evidence to the contrary.  BTW, $1750 is pretty
           fuck cheap carpet.  I'd want to see the billing statement showing
           the bastards even put new carpet in.  Death to landlords and other
           property owning scum!  The earth belongs to us all.
           \_ I lived in San Jose.  Unfortunately, now I'm overseas (so I
              pretty much knew the answer to the "Am I screwed?" question
              before I asked here).  When you're talking about average lowball
              carpet, how much *should* it cost to buy and install n sq. yards
              of new carpet?  (Believe me, if it weren't cheap, my landlord
              wouldn't be putting it in.  That was part of the problem with
              the *old* carpet.)  -- OP
        \_ Unless they have proof of damage, you shouldn't be charged. Normal
           wear-and-tear doesn't count. Damage would be torn, stained, rust
           or oil stains, burned, etc. In your case, the question is how
           stained was the carpet and how large and how many were there?
           It would also help to know which city you're in. If you didn't
           mention stains on the move-in or have photos, you're not in a
           good spot.
           \_ Landlord just wants a sap to fall for this trap and buy
              free carpet for him/her. Don't fall for it. Fight! Fight!
              Fight! Maybe you can counter-sue for lost wages, etc.
        \_ your landlord sounds like my old landlord.  Is she russian?  was
              your apt between haste and channing?  anyway, i went back to her
              and asked nicely and she gave some of my money back.  don't know
              Fight! Maybe you can counter-sue for lost wages, etc.
              if it will work now though.
2004/1/29 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:12002 Activity:nil
1/28    Want to buy a median priced home?  Make $124k first:
        \_ Housing bubble!
           \_ 3.2 jobs/housing unit.  Housing crisis.
        \_ haha, a Senior Software Engineer makes about that much.
           \_ obUntilJobGoesToIndia
              \_ obYouAreAFreakingIdiot
           \_ showoff
           \_ heh, so does a senior sysadmin.
        \_ Many couples can swing that. Most single adults cannot.
           \_ This is true. On the other hand, with an income of $150K I
              don't really feel I can afford $580K. My neighbor is a
              neurologist (wife doesn't work) who makes probably twice
              that and he's not in a $580K house either. That's a lot of $$$.
              \_ the payments on $580K are only going to be about $3K/month,
                 which should be easily manageable on $150K/year.
                 \_ $3K/m with how much down payment?
                    \_ With a 10% down payment, at 6% interest, payments on
                       a 30-year loan to buy a $580,000 house would be
                       about $3150, or about 25% of the gross income of
                       Mr. $150K.  Easily affordable.  -tom
                       \_ With 10% down you're be paying mortgage insurance, or
                          paying a second mortgage.
                       \_ Uh, no. Only if you think property tax is free.
                          The PITI is going to be closer to $4K and at
                          $150K I am bringing home about $7K net. Could I
                          do it? Sure, but it's not that comfortable and
                          that is *if* I have $60K to put down.
                          \_ You keep 7k?  BULLSHIT!  I keep ~7k each month
                             of my 120k. LIES! LIES! LIES!  YOU LIE!  My
                             friends in Nebraska who are both nurses pay about
                             50% of their take home for their very normal
                             nothing special house and there sure as hell isn't
                             a housing bubble in Nebraska.  It's a perfectly
                             normal number to pay these days in this country.
                             \_ Yes, I keep $7K and that is with my current
                                mortgage deduction. It would be less without
                                it. I am sure you don't mind living on $3K per
                                month for your cars, insurance, tuition,
                                utilities, home improvements and whatnot but
                                some of us try to save money and/or have lives.
              \_ Your neurologist probably makes much less than you think.
                 \_ I doubt it. He's a partner in his practice and is 15
                    years out of medical school.
                    \_ You have absolutely no idea what his income or his
                       total wealth is.  Maybe he's paying half his income in
                       alimony and child support for 5 kids.  You have no idea.
                       \_ I know what a neurologist makes and I know he
                          only has one kid, but you make a good point
                          which is that sometimes life isn't rosy and
                          being stuck with a $4K mortgage when your wife
                          leaves you with 5 kids ain't fun. You can make
                          wads of money and still not afford a $580K house.
                          A $580K house is not "normal middle class". My
                          neighbor put all of his money into paying off his
                          student loans and buying his share of the practice,
                          but I guess you would have him being a wage slave
                          living paycheck to paycheck because it's "normal".
           \_ They can swing it, but it's still a lot of money for a pretty
              mediocre house. For families with kids the Bay Area sucks.
              That doesn't seem to faze the Indians who live in shitty old
              apartment complexes with their multiple children.
                \_ why live in the Bay Area? I got smart and moved out.
                   \_ Most CS jobs are here.
                      \_ you can get a house really cheap in Bangladesh.
                         \_ but you're not allowed to work there, white boy.
2004/1/20 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11847 Activity:moderate
1/19    I just sold my house but my other house isn't done yet so I need to
        rent a temporary storage place for boxes/furnitures, etc. I'm looking
        at around 6-8 months. How much do they cost? By the way I'm in S Cal.
        \_ They vary in price highly with the property values in the area. Bay
           area storage rental places are pretty high -- a 12x25' was going
           for ~250/month 3 years ago here in Bay Area.  Call around.
           \_ I poked around on the Public Storage website a little while ago
              and I remember there was some weird pricing going on, like a
              closet-sized room was more expensive than a garage-sized one.  I
              seem to rember the cheapest size was like $34/mo or something.
        \_ I found a place ~3-4 years ago for ~$120.  It was right across the
           Richmond bridge in Marin.  Renting a truck to transport stuff is
           a must, so going a little further to save $50-100 on storage is
           worth it.
        \_ This seems like a troll about SoCal and housing prices in disguise.
           Otherwise, the OP could have just asked about storage in Ca for
           a few months.
        \_ Good thing you sold the house and built a new one out in the
           desert before the bubble popped. Smart move. Now just make
           sure and stock up on guns, gold and canned goods.
2004/1/17-19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11820 Activity:nil
1/17    I had a pipe leak in my apartment, and the lower floor was completely
        soaked.  I tried to force dry it, but it still smells like saltmarsh
        in my livingroom.  Is there anything I can do to get the stench out
        aside from airing it out or burning my unit to the ground?  TIA.
        \_ It's stories like these that make me glad that I no longer live
           in Berkeley.
           \_ Not living in Berkeley.  Stuff sometimes just happens, you know?
        \_ I have no useful advice, but this reminds me of a funny story.
           someone I know had the pressure go up in the sewar pipes enough
           to force all the shit from his apartment building up into his
           bathroom, all over the floor.  there were turds in the bathtub
           and all around.  He busted a hole in the floor with a tire iron
           and an axe, and the shit went down into the landlord's office
           in the basement.  he'd already tried getting
           the landlord to respond and get a plumber for quite a
           while, but in true slumlord fashion, there was no response
           and all he had was a pager number.  true story.
        \_ There must be detergents that should be able to get it clean...
           cuz there are like some chemicals that can get the stench of
           housepet urine out of carpets.... there's probably still going
           to be residual damage regardless.
        \_ The same thing happened to my basement a couple weeks ago. If
           your lower floor has wall-to-wall carpeting, the carpet & pad
           (and any other soaked fabric material) should be thrown away.
        \_ You need to contact your landlord and get them to replace the
           carpet and pads.  There's a mold hazard there and you tell him if
           he doesn't take care of it you're going to file complaints with the
           city and with his insurance carrier.
        \_ You can disinfect it by peeing on the floor.
           \_ rm?  is that you, being a punk again?
           \_ How/Why does urine stink up a room for so long?
                \_ How do you know - have you tried?
        \_ When I was thinking about buying a stinky cat-urined house, I
           found info on some product that you could use to get the stench
           out. It might work with human stenches, too. Don't remember what
           it was called, but I'm sure you can google for it.
2004/1/14-15 [Consumer/Audio, Reference/RealEstate] UID:11779 Activity:nil
1/13    I just bought a house. I'm gutting the walls right now. I'm debating
        2 in-wall speakers vs 4 normal speakers. Pros vs Cons? Where my TV is,
        I'm going to do 5+1 surround, this is for the more formal living room.
        \_ Is it a pre-1970 house (lead paint=>lead dust contamination)?
           \_ yes. pre-WWII.
              \_ Hmmmm, well children are more susceptible to lead
                 poisoning, so if yer worried, get tested. A normal
                 vacuum won't work for cleanup (lead dust is too fine
                 to be caught by normal filters - I think you may need
                 a HEPA filter). Just an FYI in case it interests ya.
                 \_ thanks. you have to sign a million disclosure acceptances
                    when buying an older home. once the house is repainted,
                    are there still hazards (i only skimmed teh disclosures).
        \_ very soon, half of the responses below will be posted by jealous
           poornuts who will tell you that it's stupid to buy a house in the
           Bay Area
           \_ still can't get over it, eh?
           \_ i don't live in the bay area
        \_ it's so stupid to buy a house in the bay area!  i'm doing much
           better renting and voting for people that will write and strictly
           enforce draconian rent control laws which lower the quality of
           rental housing while reducing availability!  so take that! you
           evil and foolish home owner!  hah!
           \_ did i say anything about the bay area or CA for that matter?
              \_  try posting a random string of ASCII characters, and see
                  how long it takes to turn into a Bay Area housing flame
                  war.  of course, what people on both sides refuse to
                  acknowlege is that the common denominator of crapulence
                  is the Bay Area, not renting or owning.  I'd rather
                  own *or* rent anywhere but the Bay Area than own *or*
                  rent in the Bay Area.  You've all fucked yourselves with
                  your communal idiocy on renatl policy, and yes, the
                  price of housing is a ridiculous bubble in the bay area.
        \_ Are you gutting plaster walls and replacing with dry wall? I
           wouldn't. As for speakers, WTF do you want them in the wall?
           They are going to be as useful as the intercoms that people
           used to love to install.
        \_ in-wall vs "box" speakers is a waf question, imo.  in the past,
           i've found in-wall speakers acoustically compromised.  if you
           openning walls and laying in wires, why limit yourself to 5.1?
        \_ Your question boils down easily:  How much do you value the
           aesthetics of in-wall speakers?  That's a question motd can't
           answer for you.  As far as convenience, normal speakers
           are better: easier to upgrade, easier to install.  As far as
           sound quality, normal speakers are better: speakers require
           a cushion of air behind them to correctly spatialize the
           sound.  The only advantage in-wall speakers have is aesthetics.
           Also, if you don't like cables everywhere, consider just
           in-walling your cables, and feed them through a jack.  -nivra
           \_ perfect answer, thanks.
2004/1/5-6 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11678 Activity:high
1/5     Anyone care to share their Bay Area housing market predicitons?
        These current prices can't possibly hold up, IMO.
        \_ factor of two drop within ten years.
        \_ I said it before and I will say it again. These prices will
           hold up as long as interest rates stay down. Once rates start
           going up, prices will stop going up and will probably drop
           a bit. -ausman
           \_ That as well as the projected population and the projected
              supply of whores is way out of balance, favoring a shortage
              of whores. They've run projections through the next 20-50
              years and unless we get some hundreds of thousands more
              whores than planned we're still going to be short.
              \_ Sure, that is why in the long run, pimping is still a good
                 investment, imo.
        \_ Bay Area whore market opinions on the motd are trollbait, IMO.
        \_ This is the only area in the country considered to have a housing
           crisis (in the sense that there isn't enough).  Do the math.
              supply of housing is way out of balance, favoring a shortage
              of housing. They've run projections through the next 20-50
              years and unless we build some hundreds of thousands more
              dwellings than planned we're still going to be short.
        \_ Bay Area housing market opinions on the motd are trollbait, IMO.
2003/12/24-26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11583 Activity:nil
12/13   I am about to rent an apartment in Mountain View.  The contract
        allows rent hike with 2 months' notice.  Is rent going to increase
        in the next year?  I am wondering whether I should sign for m2m,
        6m, or 1yr.
        \_ gee, I sure miss the Bay Area...NOT!!!!!
        \_ Rent will increase. LLs (most of the time)
                will hike the rent. Some large, corporate LLs may keep the
                rent the same or give you a break but this is rare. This is
                even rarer in South Bay and rarer than rare for anything less
                than a 2-bd. Word of advice: shop around prior to renewal
                and negotiate. The rental market is soft right now and it's
                thought to remain soft well into 2004. I was able to keep my
                rent the same in East Bay even though pretty much everyone in
                my apartment complex had a 5% hike. (They just signed the
                renewal offer). Oh and it's easier to renew for a deal then
                to get out of a deal (penalties?) so I'd say sign for 6m-1yr.
        \_ Ignore all the idiots below.  The answer is you should sign for
           the length of time you expect to be there.  In this case you'll
           have that plus 2 months to figure out where you want to live after.
           The other option is to sign for the shortest period possible if
           you're willing to apartment hop every few months to save a few
           bucks on rent.  In that case get the shortest possible terms.
           \- well obviously if you know you are joining the army or getting
              married etc you may have a good idea of "the length of time
              you epxect to be there" but most people dont, down to the
              month. duh. if the person knew the nswer to this, he wouldnt
              be asking what to do in the face of uncertainty. --psb
              \_ genius boy scribbles to motd again.  look genius boy, he made
                 it pretty clear he's planning to be in the area for at least a
                 year, his only question is about if he should sign long to
                 lock in a low rent or sign short so he can move if it drops.
                 i answered for both the long and short term cases while you
                 completely failed to do either.  your best response was to
                 tell him to post his name so you could tell him your sob story
                 in email.  go smoke your pipe, genius boy.
        \_ please consult madame cleo for answers to all of life's pressing
           \- you are probably best off signing for a year. i know what i
              am talking about but i am not going to explain unless you
              sign your name. --psb
              \_ What does signing name have to do with this?  (S)he is not
                 trolling about chocolate or WMD?  The BIG one is coming?
                          \- because i want to try and stave off
                             E_CASTPEARLTOSWINE --psb
                 \_ It seems possible that there may be details that The
                    psb is not willing to share on motd that he might be
                    willing to go into via email or chat, etc.  Try to use
                    your brain a little bit.
                    \_ It was possible until he replied above making it clear
                       he's got nothing to say.
        \_ If the terms for the rent increase are the same for all three
           periods of time, sign m2m. Figure that rent will start increasing
           late next year, but not that much if at all. More COLA. Not as
           many jobs being created.
        \_ on the one hand, motd posters fret over a housing price crash.
           on the other hand, they worry about increasing rent?
           What gives?
           \_ It's fun to bash home owners on the motd and spread FUD but when
              reality strikes....
           \_ It's similar concerns. An increasingly ambiguous economy. A
              jobless recovery when real estate prices are increasing thus
              allowing landlords to maintain high rents. If the bubble bursts,
              homeowners lose lots of equity, but how the housing/rental market
              will react is unknown. High unemployment during a recovery means
              those with jobs will have fewer opportunities to increase
              salaries significantly by trading up jobs.
              \_ trading up jobs?  what happened to your employee loyalty?!
                 \_ It went right out with companies cutting pensions.
                    Legislated out of existence by 401k's
                    \_ So it's all about money, huh?  Sing the corporate song
                       and think of your cube mates!  Team spirit!
2022/08/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/11/29-12/1 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11264 Activity:nil
        "Apartment Glut Forces Owners to Cut Rents in Much of U.S."
        According to the article, Bay Area rents have fallen more than 20
        percent over the last three years, more than anywhere else.  Is
        that true?
           SF rents up as vacancies go down.
           \_ That's commercial property though, not residential.
           \_ But yes, rents have fell through the floor in SF.  Not as much
              as they should, though - there is a huge glut of really bad
              apartments on the market, and many landlords still seem to think
              its 1998 and are overpricing them.  Thus there are a lot of
              properties just sitting empty, because you can always find a
              better deal.
2003/11/28-29 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11256 Activity:high
        "It is time to expose some popular fallacies about buying a home"
        \_ Thank you for this, though I'm sure you'll get screamed at by
           some Bay Area owners.
           \_ I won't comment on the macro economic statements but I will
              point out that the whole thing falls apart on point #5.  My
              mortgage is only slightly higher than rent in my area.  In a
              few years, I'll own my home and stop paying mortgage fees but
              renters will keep renting and paying ever higher rent costs
              over time.  My mortgage rate is set and locked.  Also, should
              inflation ever hit big time again, which is historically likely,
              then my mortgage drops to nothing while rent prices will sky
              rocket in absolute terms.  In the meantime, in order to lose
              money on my house, it would have to drop in sale value by over
              40% (my current break even point taking nothing else into
              account) *and* I'd have to be *forced* to sell it at that post-
              crunch point rather than doing what I intend to do if it should
              happen, which is simply stay there and keep paying my mortgage.
              Seriously, I was renting for 10 years hoping and praying every
              day for that predicted housing price drop.  It never came.  So
              I finally got a clue and a house and I'm up a shitload of money
              in the last 4 years.  I paid $428k + stuff = $440k.  Someone
              sold the same house for $615k 2 weeks ago in my neighborhood and
              I haven't been paying rent down the drain for 4 long years.  By
              taking out a 15 year loan and paying in a lot of extra money,
              I'll *own my house* in full at about the 7.3 year mark.  Stop
              praying and being bitter and reading doom and gloom articles
              hoping for some crash.  Go buy something and stop suffering.
              Read the article carefully.  It says housing prices may remain
              flat, not crash by 50%.  If you bought now and the market value
              never changed at all you still win in the long run.  If you
              plan on buying to rent it out, I can't comment on that investment
              as I haven't researched the possibility.  I'm just really happy
              to --not be a renter anymore
              \_ (1) The issue is not whether you made a right decision
                     buying a house 4 years ago.  The issue is whether one
                     should rush into buying a house today.
                 (2) I don't know about the Bay Area, but rents where I
                     live (a big fat city) is actually decreasing, and there
                     are still a lot of empty apartments for rent.
                     live is actually decreasing, and there are still a
                     lot of empty apartments for rent.
                 (3) Don't forget your 20% downpayment and closing costs
                     \_ more like years.
                        \_ I am thinking in terms of the returns generated
                           per year, without touching the principle.
                 (4) Don't forget the extra $ one would be paying on
                     which could cover several months worth of rent if
                     reasonably invested.
                 (5) Don't forget extra maintenance and utilities costs.
                 (4) Don't forget the extra $ one would be paying on a
                 (4) Don't forget the extra $ one would be paying on
                 (7) Don't forget property tax (another few months worth
                     of rent).
                     mortgage over rent (which is decreasing where I live)
                     could also be invested.
                 (5) Don't forget extra maintenance costs.
                 (6) Don't forget mortgage interest tax savings must
                 (7) Don't forget property tax.
                     subtract standard deduction first.
                 (7) Don't forget property tax (another few months worth
                 (9) A likely future scenario would be rising interest
                     rate (current account (iraq, homeland security, new
                     medicare bill) / trade deficits / improving
                     economy) coupled with low inflation (china / india /
                     productivity gains) -> not good for housing prices
                     and mortgages?
                     \_ (10) don't forget homeowner insurance. (equivalent to
                        half to full month of rent.)
              \_ Living in earthquake country, a 50% housing crash is possible.
                     of rent).
                 (8) Inflation / Deflation tends to be a double edged
                     sword.  While inflation may mean decreasing "real money"
                     mortgage payments, it may also mean higher interest
                     rate, meaning that less new buyers of houses or upgrades
                     to bigger houses, and it may also mean if you have
`                    cash on hand, it would likely generate better returns
                     if invested in stocks / bonds / etc.
                 (9) A likely future scenario would be rising interest
                     rate (current account (iraq, homeland security, new
                     medicare bill) / trade deficits / improving
                     economy) coupled with low inflation (china / india /
                     productivity gains) -> not good for housing prices
                     and mortgages?
           \_ why should we scream?  keep renting from us fools!  We love
                your money!!
              \_ Ya know, when the bottom finally falls out of the housing
                 market, its going to be really really satisfying to gloat
                 on the motd.  Every day.
                \_ do the math kiddo.  The bottom would have to fall out within
                   the first couple years of ownership for it to cause actual
                   damage to a home buyer,  once you figure in inflation,
                   equity, leveraged mortgages, and tax savings.  I'm not sure
                   how you think you are benefiting by not buying any kind of
                   house... Also, the economist article is counting on a low
                   inflation.  Think about what that means.  Among other things
                   it means by voluntarily renting instead of owning you're
                   betting against inflation.  If you cannot buy a house due
                   to the crazy prices in the Bay Area, and you are just trying
                   to make yourself feel better, then I'm sorry, I don't mean
                   to rip on you.  But there is an ugly reality that will only
                   hurt you more the longer you avoid it.  Pool your money
                   with a friend or family member, or invest in a cheaper area
                   where you think real estate is more stable.
                   \_ Reality is that I'm just sick of the Bay Area and
                      Kaluforneeah in general.  Why get locked into an area
                      that you think you'll be leaving within 5 years anyway?
        \_ can anyone explain what this is supposed to mean?
           "Initial interest payments may seem low in relation to income,
            but because inflation is also low it will not erode the real
            burden of debt as swiftly as it once did. So in later years
            mortgage payments will be much larger in real terms."
           are they talking about variable rate loans and making assumptions
           that the rate will rise? a low fixed-rate low seems to me to be a
           good deal regardless of inflation (well, as long as it's positive).
           \_ Say inflation is 4%, and you get a fixed-rate mortgage with
              payments of $2000/month for 30 years.  Your payments are fixed,
              \_ then isn't this predicated on the assumption that you know
                 how the inflation rate is going to be? if you wait a few years
                 till inflation starts up again, what makes you so sure that
                 some years down the line after that, inflation isn't going to
                 stall again?
              but inflation means they cost less every year; after 29 years
              you'd be paying only $641/month in real money.

              Now, imagine that there won't be any inflation at all for the
              next five years.  That same mortgage is now going to be costing
              you $780/month in 29 years -- that's the "much larger in real
              terms" they're talking about.

              The alternative is to put off buying your house.  Say you wait
              five years, until inflation starts up again.  You'll have a
              higher interest rate -- maybe your payments will be $2300/month
              -- but inflation will bring them down to $737/month after 29
              years, *lower* than your final payments would be if you bought
              at the lower interest rate now.
                \_ WOW thanks motd econ dude. So the whole article is based
                   on the premise that if deflation occurs, houses would be
                   a bad bet?
                   \- if i have to venture a guess, i think there are some
                      people here who dont worry about their finances as
                      much because they are perhaps only children of
                      upper middle class parents and know they are going
                      to inherit ~$1million ... of course some are not
                      only children but their parents might be worth even
                      more [and probably paid for their college so no debt].
                      so rather the prefer to not sweat over this stuff, and
                      they dont personally get much milage over owning a house
                      and they avoid the hit to the cash flow. note: i'm
                      not saying all the people in this financial condition
                      dont worry about it, but some may prefer to say live
                      in an expensive part of SF as renters, and have to
                      income to buy a nice car/stuff, travel, eat out etc.
                      for some of them a home might be even a bigger time
                      liability than money issue.
                      \_ I'm certainly not set to inherit any money.  My
                         dad is already dead, and he died poor.  My mother
                         is also a poor hippie with little cashflow - she
                            an obligation to leave something to their
                         owns a house but that will get eaten up by
                         medical bills when she is older.  I grew up without
                         electricity until I was 5 years old, and without
                         a functioning toilet until I was 11 (do you know
                         what an outhouse is?).  So yeah, I worry about
                         money some.  For me, its just not the time to be
                         going into debt.  Buying a home is a very worthy
                         thing, but I wish motd people would stop acting
                         like its the be-all-end-all of existence and
                                                \_ what's this supposed to mean
                         that you're a total idiot if you don't do it.
                         \- seriously: do you have a point here aside
                            from telling your story? you make a reasonable
                            point on the medical bills issue. i dunno how
                            many middle/upper middle class parents see
                            an obligation to leave something to their
                            children vs. "i paid for their college now i get
                            to have a good time". i'm sure it's differnt
                            at harvard/princeton/bennington etc but there are
                            plenty of berkeley families worth 2-4 million
                            with 1-2 kids ... these people have a pretty nice
                            "safety net" and can get away with living a
                            zero savings lifestyle, and not worrying about
              \_ i dont live in the bay area, and even w/in the bay area, there
                 is a lot of differences in overvaluation based on what part
                 of the bay area.
        \_ Look at this more simply. For house prices to fall there would have
           to be less demand. If there's less demand that likely means fewer
           people able to buy homes. Odds are that the non-home owners will
           also be in the "not able to buy home" category. The homeowner may
           take a bath on paper, but the renter likely *still* won't have a
           house, because the very factors driving prices down will also affect
           that person's ability to buy (e.g. interest rates).
           \_ Nah, I have more than enough to buy a house, but I am not
              buying because:
                (1) I don't have a need for a big house now.
                (2) As an investment, the next few years could be mediocre,
                    if not downright horrific.
                (3) Just like stocks which can become overvalued or
                    undervalued, if the housing price drops sufficiently,
                    it may become fairly priced, and I may consider
                    buying one.
                (4) In short I am not buying now because I don't want to
                    lose money, or have my money stuck in the house for
                    a long time unable to work for me.
                (5) Sure, interest rate may go up, but I would be able to
                    pay for a much bigger chunk of the house a few years
                    down the road, and borrowing less, interest rate would
                    play a much less important role.
        \_ If I owned a house, I'd have to clean drainpipes, which I hate, and
           I probably wouldn't be able to hear my cute neighbor getting off
           through t ewals.  And that, I think, sort of brings the whole
           discussion to moot.  -John
                \_ finally, a voice of reason
           that the rate will rise? a low fixed-rate low seems to me to be a good
           deal regardless of inflation (well, as long as it's positive).
                         money some.  For me, its just not the time to be
                         going into debt.  Buying a home is a very worthy
                         thing, but I wish motd people would stop acting
                         like its the be-all-end-all of existence and
                         that you're a total idiot if you don't do it.
                            many middle/upper middle class parents see
                            and obligation to leave something to their
                            children vs. "i paid for their college now i get
                            to have a good time". i'm sure it's differnt
                            at harvard/princeton/bennington etc but there are
                            plenty of berkeley families worth 2-4 million
                            with 1-2 kids ... these people have a pretty nice
                            "safety net" and can get away with living a
                            zero savings, dont worry about the future
                            their future existence. i think various asians
                            also have different expriences in this area.
        \_ That article links to another article that shows that Britain and
           most of the EU are >40-50% inflated, whereas the US is only about
           15% inflated. 15% over 4 years is <4% a year. It seems like you
           shouldn't go and buy a house in England, but a 15% drop isn't much
           given the pros of home ownership. Of course, I don't want to buy
           a home because I don't want to be tied down... home ownership is
           like marriage, it ties you down and kills your life, regardless of
           whether or not it is a good investment.
           \_ Yea, but Bay Area != US.  According to Smartmoney, WSJ's
              personal finance magazine, Bay Area communities are from 23%
              to 41% overvalued (For comparison, Chicago, for example, is
              only 2% overvalued).  See above points (1) to (9) on why
              the other "pros of home ownership" may be overrated.
              \_ i dont live in the bay area, and even w/in the bay area, there
                 is a lot of differences in overvaluation based on what part
                 of the bay area.
2003/11/27 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:29672 Activity:nil 50%like:11249
11/26   Berkeley Frat House Article on Chronicle:
2003/11/27-28 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11249 Activity:nil 50%like:29672
11/26   Berkeley Frat House Article on Chronicle: (
        \_ I read this out of sheer boredom.  Why do we care that some frat
           boys are living in an old house?  Most of them are old houses.
2003/11/25-26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:11222 Activity:high
11/24   Don't overlook a condominium as an affordable first investment. Unlike
        years past, when condos were considered a lousy investment by
        comparison with detached homes, condos are now appreciating at twice
        the rate of single-family residences.
        \_ Not a condo, but the whole condominium is a good investment.
           A single condo still sux balz!
        \_ Sure, but that will stop when they approach the cost of a SFR,
           which will always cost more - and the SFR will hold its value
           better, too.
        \_ Another factor I have heard is that the boomers are starting
           to reach retirement age, and their kids are leaving home, and
           because of that, many will be downgrading from house to
           townhome or apartment.
           \_ This was supposed to happen with WWII-era seniors when the
              boomers left home. It didn't quite work out that way as the
              boomers moved south and west and built more suburbs. The big
              change is the increase of single adults (with and without kids)
              with homes and immigrants.
              \_ OTOH, watch prices on 2-storey units drop as Boomers like my
                 Mom and Dad realize they won't be able to make it up the
                 stairs much longer.
        \_ Supply and demand affects condo prices more than homes
           because it is easier to increase the supply in a given
           neighborhood. If there are lots of condo developments
           and/or free land nearby, be wary. In as city like SF, you
           are prob safer from this kind of thing happening.
        \_ hehehe another bitter renter trying to delude himself into
           thinking the home he can't afford is a bad ivnestment.
           \_ Considering the fervent responses on the motd everytime
              someone questions housing prices, looks more like a
              bunch of heavily mortgaged home owners worried about
              the prices of their houses.  Makes good troll bait.
                        - happy owner of big house not in BA.
              \_ Not at all.  I was in the bitter renter hoping for a housing
                 crunch mode until I finally got a clue and just bought
                 something.  I'm up over $150 in 4 years, thanks and not
                 even close to heavily mortgaged.  I'll own it 100% in
                 ~7.5 years.
                 \_ Down with the Kapitalist bourgeiosie!
                 \_ What makes you think the next 4 years is going to
                    be like the last 4 years?  The housing price
                    increase rate during the bubble and interest rate
                    cutting years is not sustainable.  Home price
                    increase first half of this year - San Jose -1%,
                    Oakland 1%, SF 1%.  That doesn't sound like good
                    enough reason to rush out to buy a house at all
                    cost.  Interest rate can't go any lower.  Latest
                    news is housing sales went down.  Economy is still
                    uncertain.  Besides, the Op may just be considering
                    uncertain.  Besides, the op may just be considering
                    to buy a house.  Just because you have no clue for
                    a long time, and then made a "smart" move doesn't
                    mean you
                    whether it's worth it to buy a condo, or save more
                    to buy a house.  You said you had no clue for some
                    time before making a "smart" move to buy a house.
                    Perhaps you should consider the possibility that
                    you may be quite clueless about what will happen in
                    the next four years instead of jumping to conclusions
                    that anyone less than 100% bullish abouthousing
                    prices is a "bitter renter".
2003/11/1-2 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Shopping, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10896 Activity:kinda low
10/31   Oh great.  A Vietnamese man just bought my building and has now
        cancelled the property management firm, the cleaning contract,
        and the pest control contract.  He claims he can do it all
        himself.  There are 19 units and over 30 people in the building.
        This is stupid - 5 years ago they finally beat back the roach
        invasion and now this chump is going to let them back in?
        Why is he so cheap?!
        \_ why do you still live in the Bay Area?!
             \_ Where do you live? And who do you work for?
        \_ Vietnamese people are always cheap. They are your worst nightmare
           as your employee (stupid) and your landlord (cheap). They're
           also your worst roomates (dirty). I'm speaking from personal
           experience. Do yourself a favor and move out ASAP.
           \_ I've got 7 months left on my lease.  ARGH!
              \_ You can break lease and move now or wait and pay double in
                 7 months after the economy improves.  Or you could kill him.
           \_ um, how are we vietnamese dirty?
              \_ heh, you'll accept stupid and cheap but dirty isn't ok?
                \_ ha that's pretty funny. Anyways, how come Vietcongese
                   bashing is ok but black/white/jews bashing gets trashed
                   by motd custodians? Is it because our custodians don't
                   like Viets as well?
                   \_ No, b/w/j bashing mostly causes the flamefest intended
                      by the trolls posting.  When that section of the motd
                      grows to 5 pages, it gets deleted.
                   \_ Edit it yourself. I like Vietnamese so well I married
                      one, I just don't see the need to censor idiots. It
                      is better to let the world see how stupid the bigots
                      really are.
           \_ sheesh, what a bigot!
        \_ Property management firms ... snicker.  Those are usually
           run by lazy, incompetent know-nothing do-nothing english major
           suit-wearing money-grabbers who think they are entitled to a
           high fee without providing any service.  Of course he should
           fire them and cut some fat.  Helps the economy, if nothing else.
           \_ I have yet to see an exception to the rule you state.
           \_ personal experience: management company did what was needed to
              be done at my apartment complex.  it was very industrial and
              there was no personal touch to anything but stuff got done. i
              moved from there to another complex run by the one-owner-guy and
              it was a big fucking filthy broken mess and a fire hazard to
              boot!  i'll take a prop. management firm anyday.
              \_ I think you mean "industrious."
                 \_ no, I mean industrial.  exactly like I said.  thanks.
        \_ At least your landlord wasn't the Lucky Reddy dude who bring
           indian peasant girls to the country to serve as sex slave
           and to help clean the apartment buildings.
           \_ If you're not an Indian peasant girl what do you care?
2003/10/30 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Investment] UID:10855 Activity:low
10/29   John Templeton predicts that housing prices will fall by 90%
        \_ probably not mentioned: the bay area exception
           \_ When there is a big one, it will fall to 1/10 the value.
        \_ If it does then I'm buying all I can afford, baby!
           \_ see also the threat of greater inflation as our economy tanks.
              I'm looking forward to my loan suddenly be worth 10 times
              what I owe on it.
        \_ As bearish as I am about housing prices, I find that hard
           to believe.
           \_ Actual quote: "After home prices go down to one-tenth
              of the highest price homeowners paid, then buy."
              The meaning is slightly different.
              \_ In my area houses just went over 600k recently.  If you
                 wait until they hit 60k before you buy I hope you really like
                 paying rent because you'll be paying it for the rest of your
                 life.  Homeless motd kids, keep up the housing price drop
                 fantasy.  I was hoping the same thing a few years ago when
                 houses here were going for 350k.  I bought in at 430k and
                 no, virginia, there's no end in sight.  It's very simple.
                 More people keep coming in than there is available housing.
                 The author needs to take econ 1 at some place better than
                 \_ yea, that's what they once said in HK too.  No, I don't
                    think the price will drop to 1/10, but you are the one
                    fantasizing if you think housing prices always go up.
                    \_ In the long term, they do.
                    \_ Son, God is always making more people, He isn't making
                       anymore land.  And yes, historically, housing prices
                       have always gone up.  Real estate is one of the best
                       long term investments you can make.  The only way you
                       can lose is buying swamp land.  Prove me wrong.  History
                       is on my side.
                       \_ The stock market is also a good "long term" investment
                          and consistently beat real estate "long term".
                          That doesn't mean you should buy stocks in March 2000.
                          Yea, God made like 100 million people in Java, and
                          is making plenty more everyday, so why don't you go
                          invest in Java real estate?
                          \_ Hey good shot as changing the subject.  Let me
                             refresh your memory.  The topic was real estate
                             in the US.  This is a growing nation and getting
                             richer everyday.  Here's the econ 1a part: with
                             more and more consumers who are wealthier each
                             day than the one before and a housing supply that
                             doesn't grow as fast, the housing market will
                             continue to climb until those conditions change.
                             Java?  That was a nice try but ultimately feeble.
                             Housing prices will continue to climb over the
                             long haul and unlike the stock market, you can
                             live in your house after a crash.  Housing values
                             can't go to zero, unlike your portfolio.
                             \_ Wealthier?  Did you even read the article? It
                                mentioned the increasing debt of Americans
                                as one of the principle causes of the
                                predicted crash. That means negative wealth,
                                if you need a translation.
                             \_ Housing prices in the Bay Area have been
                                growing much faster than wealth, income and
                                population.  Much "wealth" was destructed
                                in the tech crash. Income has gone
                                down slightly while unemployment has risen.
                                Only thing sustaining the housing prices
                                is the low interest rate, which can't
                                go any lower.  You can live in your
                                house after a crash?  Not if you lose
                                your job.  Not only will you not be able
                                to live in your house, you will still
                                be responsible for the mortgage which
                                would be more than what you can get
                                selling the house.  Bankruptcy would
                                be the only choice left.
                                \_ If you lose your job the only place you
                                   will live is your mom's basement,
                                   anyway. --dim
                                   \_ I think you would rather live in
                                      your mom's basement without debt than
                                      with a shitload of debt, and debt
                                      collectors going after your arse
                                      day in and day out.
2003/10/27 [Politics/Domestic, Reference/RealEstate] UID:10803 Activity:nil
10/25   Does anyone here have a good video newsfeed for the fires down in
        San Diego? I've got family down there, and local news has been
        depressingly lacking.  --erikred
        \_ no, but here are some photos from hillcrest:
        \_ No but every morning my car is covered in ash. -50 miles from fires.
        \_ maybe they'll burn down a few nice Republican houses and let us
           poor schmucks have a chance at getting property in the nice
           SD area.
           \_ Talk about flame-bait...
              \_ Someone needs to break your legs.  Nothing personal.
           \_ yeah, the Berkeley Hills fire really made for cheap real
              estate in Hiller Highlands.  -tom
2003/10/24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:10765 Activity:high
10/23   Housing prices going to tumble.  Old ladies worried about high
        property taxes will be happy!
        \_ uh, that article says nothing about housing prices.  -tom
           \_ look for "real estate".
        \_ Prop 13 protects old ladies from high housing prices.  Anyway,
           we've been hearing this for years.  If you bought a house just
           before any of the last several housing price tumbles and sold it
           today you'd have a several hundred percent profit in the Bay Area.
           \_ yea, but what if you just bought a house? and even if you have
              a 200 percent appreciation, which I doubt you have, believe me,
              it still hurts when it goes down.
              a 200 percent appreciation, believe me, it still hurts when it
              goes down.
              \_ doesn't matter at all.  the *only* things that matter are
                 your property taxes, monthly payment, and your final selling
                 price when you dump the thing years from now.  i'm a home
                 owner who plans to stay for at least 5-7 more years in this
                 house.  the current housing ups and downs mean *nothing* to
                 me.  the weather report is more exciting.
                 \_ 5-7 years only?  LA housing market was crappy for
                    more than a decade before bouncing back.  Housing tends
                    to have longer cycles compared to the stock market.
                    If you need a house, sure, but if you are also thinking
                    of it as a financial investment, think twice.  Don't
                    buy more than what you need, or earlier than necessary.
                    \_ Typical housing cycle is about 7 years. In LA it
                       was from 1989 to 1996 or so (top to bottom). Some
                       people say 1991 to 1998.
                       \_ Sure.  But if you consider it as an investment,
                          you probably want to look at how long it takes to
                          go from top to bottom and than back to its
                          original level and then some.  What would be the
                          return from say 1985 to 1995?
                          \_ Less than 7 years unless you bought at the very
                             top. It took maybe 10 years for the people who
                             did. Real estate rebounds quickly when it finally
                             heads up.
                             \_ This looks like the "very top".
                                \_ Most of us didn't buy this year.
                                   \_ Since when did you become the
                                      spokesperson for the motd denizens?
                                \_ Maybe, but they said that two years ago.
                                   \_ Have prices risen in the last two years?
                                      \_ yes, they have.
                                         \_ Really?  Didn't the luxury home
                                            prices fall?  And they say
                                            those usually lead the way.
                          \_ Keep in mind that once you're in a house it isn't
                             just an investment but your home.  You're no
                             longer paying rent which has an investment value
                             of absolutely zero.  Property is always a good
                             investment.  Location is the only question.
                             \_ On the negative side, you do have to pay
                                property tax, property insurance, various
                                maintenance costs  and higher energy bills.
                                Also your 20% ($120000?) down payment could be
                                making money for you if you put it somewhere
                                else.  If you invest the $120000 reasonably
                                wisely, that alone could cover a few months
                                \_ yeah, you could put it in the market!  oh,
                                   the same article says the market is going
                                   to tank...
                                   \_ He didn't say all markets.  He liked
                                      emerging markets, for example.  That
                                      brings up another negative of a
                    to have longer cycles compared to the stock market.
                    If you need a house, sure, but if you are also thinking
                    of it as an investment, think twice.
                             heads up.
                             \_ This looks like the "very top".
                                   \_ Since when did you become the
                                      spokesperson for the motd denizens,
                                      the majority of whom probably
                                      haven't bought a house.
                                      house as an investment - it is
2003/10/11-12 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:10597 Activity:nil
10/10   Save Karyn book:
        \_ I hate this bitch.
           \_ I've never heard of her but if you hate her, I like her.
                \_ this is not the middle east
2003/10/10-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:10583 Activity:nil
10/10   How's the south bay apartment rental market right now?
2003/10/5 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:10473 Activity:nil
10/4    Why would you want a tiger AND a caiman in your apartment?
        \_ CAGE MATCH!
2003/9/25-26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:10331 Activity:moderate
9/25    If I sign a m/m contract for an apt, is there a real chance the
        landlord will want to double the rent once/if(???) the economy
        picks up?  Is there some kind of statewide law on this or does this
        vary from one city to the next?  I am only concerned with the bay area.
        ok tnx.
        \_ Double is unlikely. 20-25% was common. Mine went up exactly 20%
           during the dot com era when it was really really hard to find
           housing and when traffic sucked and when it seemed like all your
           friends got rich except you. Thank god dot com dot bombed.
           \_ jealous mofo
        \_ Use motdedit, you ignorant loser.  ok tnx.
           \_ I didn't wipe your post.  Try again and take your med.
              \- this is very much dependent on the city. look at rent
                 control, vacancy decontrol etc. basically berkeley strongsish
                 rent control. oakland and sf are medium. --psb
                 \_ If you're in Oakland, "Rents may not be increased more
                    than 3% in any 12-month period for occupied units, and
                    6% in any 12-month period for units vacated after the
                    landlord terminated the tenancy." Note that the 3% is
                    dependent on the Rent Arbitration Board; last year it
                    was 0.6%. URL:  --erikred
        \_ YMMV. Which city? Each one has different regs.
2003/9/10-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:29530 Activity:insanely high
9/10    Over the last few months, I've noticed occasional noise from my
        neighbor downstairs at times when I'm trying to sleep.
        Twice, or maybe 3 times, in the last 4 or 5 months, I banged
        on the floor at hours after midnight and immediately the
        volume on the TV or whatever it was went way down.  I took
        that to mean he hadn't realized that the noise was disturbing
        to me.  In any case, the other day, at like 6 am, he had
        his bathroom fan (the head of my bed shares a wall with my
        bathroom, which is directly over his) on for like 20 minutes
        and it woke me up a lot earlier than I planned to get up.
        After no response from banging on the floor, I went downstairs
        to kindly ask him to turn it off, figuring he had no idea
        it was disturbing me and would have no problem turning it
        off.  In any case, when I rang the doorbell and asked him
        to turn off the bathroom fan, his response (without opening
        the door) was "Why!?".  My response was "Because it's loud,
        5 feet from my head, and I'm trying to sleep." His response was
        a somewhat hostile "what about when you're making noise?
        I don't bitch and moan about it then".  My response was
        "When was I making too much noise?  Seriously.  You should
        tell me about it so I know if I'm disturbing you."  He
        finally mentioned something about I was stomping around in
        the morning sometimes (I'm not usually an early riser, but
        I am up early on occasion).  Then he turned off the fan and
        walked away from the door without saying he was sorry or
        anything remotely polite or civil.  He was totally rude.
        Anyway, it's happened to me at least twice before, years
        ago at a different place, that a downstairs neighbor knocked
        on my door late at night and asked me to turn down the music
        or stop using the vacuum cleaner or whatever.  And I said
        I was sorry and turned off the noise and everyone was happy.
        Anyway, my question is, was this guy being a total ass hole,
        and/or was I being at all unreasonable?  Also, do you think
        my "stomping" around in the morning was really pissing him
        off, or was he just pissed that I was bugging him to turn
        his noisy fan off.  I really don't want to disturb him, but
        I also don't want to be extra quiet for nothing.  I figure
        if it was really a problem that that I was stomping around
        in the morning, then he should have let me know before.  If
        anyone has had a similar situation/conflict in the past,
        is there any action I can take to diffuse the situation,
        or any advice you can give me?  He seemed pretty pissed off
        when I knocked on his door.  I've never met him face to
        face.  He knows who I am from seeing me in the peep hole
        when I knocked on his door.  I think I know who he is, but
        I'm not sure.
        \_ must...resist...urge to delete...idiocy...
        \_ TV noise after midnight is one thing, but a bathroom fan at 6am
           shouldn't be blamed on him.  6 am is the normal get-ready-for-work
           time for a lot of people.  He can't help that the wall transfers
           sound the way it does.  In this case, I'd consider you the
        \_ don't bang on the floor.  I did it too.  Just walk down and
           knock.  Agree on trying to keep some quiet hours during the
           work week.
        \_ maybe you are a whiny bitch you can't handle a little bit of
           noise.  If you need total quiet get a house.  Apartment noise
           is a fact of life and not being able to handle a bathroom fan
           means you need to learn how to be a sounder sleeper.
           \_ Hear hear.  Dear god, if an occasional bathroom fan is the
              height of your troubles, you must have really been in the
              exclusive apartment complexes.
        \_ Learn to wear earplugs.
             \_ OK, so I was being over sensitive and shouldn't have
                made a big deal about the bathroom fan.  Had I known
                his reaction, I obviously would have handled the
                situation differently.  I was quite confident that it
                wasn't going to even be an issue, or I wouldn't have
                gone downstairs.  But a big part of my question is,
                does anyone have any advice of what to do or not to do
                so that the situation doesn't escalate.  He seemed more
                pissed off than he ought to be given the situation.
                I'm not saying he was wrong, but he was far from civil
                \_ dude, just forget about it. he's not friendly to someone
                   who comes whining about his bathroom fan. deal.
                or neighborly about it.
                \_ dude, just forget about it. it sounds like the incident
                   is over. if he can't even open up his door to talk to you
                   there's no point worrying about it.
                        \_ thanks.
                \_ Your civility ended with your banging on the floor.
                   When I was in sk00l, I got pissed off as hell when
                   people did it to me, but then again, I think I started it.
                     \_ The idea of banging on the floor is that if he's
                        sitting around in his underwear, he doesn't need
                        to get up and go to the door.  Even though it
                        sounds uncivil, isn't it more practical?
                        \_ stop making excuses and go down there and knock
        \_ My apt mgr went to talk to the Cal Rugby neighbors upstairs who
           were rough-housing and playing music at 3am on Thurs
           nite and got the shit kicked out of him. And these guys
           are the ones who complain if you have ANY music on during
           finals week.
2003/9/10-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:10127 Activity:kinda low
        \_ Ooooh.. it pays $/hr!
2003/8/12 [Reference/RealEstate, Computer/HW/Printer] UID:29322 Activity:nil
8/11    You aren't a REAL geek unless you've got one of THESE in your house:
2003/7/10 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:28993 Activity:high
        In the second paragraph: "Another toyed with changing the address
        to 112 Livingston Street." What's that a reference to?
        \_ it looks like 110 Livingston Street was an address synonymous
           with government hell, so the idea would be rename it to 112
           Livingston street so it wouldn't have the old name hanging over it.
           \_ That reminds me of how they voted recently to rename
              'South Central' to 'South LA', as if a new name makes it any
              less of a hellhole.  -- ilyas
              \_ Racist!
                 \_ Capitalist roader!
              \_ there is difference between actually being hell and
                 merely being associated with hell.  --demon by association.
              \_ Image is everything in media and business. No one wants to
                 live/work/shop in South Central or East Palo Alto, but South
                 LA and Ravenswood are different. Can't blame them for trying.
                 \_ You can blame them for trying to paper over their mess
                    instead of *doing* something about it.  I hate quitters
                    like you.  Better to be a hater than a quitter anyday.
                 \_ have you seen EPA recently?  It has cleaned up a lot.
                    However it still has the name against it.  Jsut like
                    they are trying to call Hell's Kitchen Clinton these days.
                    Changing things for the better doesn't help much if
                    everyone still associates the old name with badness.
2003/7/7-8 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:28955 Activity:very high
7/7     Someone posted some decent headhunters a while back. I'm in NYC but
        want to relocate to Cali (preferably SoCal, NoCal ok too). Can someone
        repost that list? thanks.
        \_ There are no decent head hunters.  Just HHs that are slightly less
           scummy than others.  They'd all screw you and give you aids for
           a chance at half a penny.  They're in the business of buying and
           selling people.  Think about that.
           \_ Second that.  Crocodiles aren't evil, but they will kill and
              eat you--it's just in their nature.  I have _never_ met a
              head hunter who understood (or was really interested) in placing
              me in a job that matched my skillset or interests.  Best way
              to find something good is through contacts.  -John
           \_ They are as useful (or not) as a real estate agent.  Some are
              anyone with anything more than 6 months old. -mel
              very good.  Others are dumber than Davis.
              \_ And like real estate agents all of them will fuck you if you
                 give them half a chance.  You can resell your house.  Your
                 career only continues forward building on the past for better
                 or for worse.  Your career is at least as important and maybe
                 more so than your house.
                 \_ I had a decent real estate agent, one that did not
                    pressure me into over bidding and also helped me
                    by letting me know when a house I was interested
                    in came back on the market. Then again, this was
                    his first sale and he had been an agent for less
                    than a year, so maybe he hadn't learned yet.
                    \_ Clearly he was new and you probably lost out on many
                       ways to fuck the seller because of it.  If he isn't
                       helping you fuck the other party you paid for nothing.
              worked at sapient for the last 4 years. fwiw,
              he went: engineer -> lead eng -> project manager... -abe
                       He provided no services.  In what way was his fee worth
                       anything to you?
        \_ Sign your name.  There are a few hiring managers who read the motd,
           and the valley is starting to hire again in earnest. -hiring manager
           \_ whoah! does this mean things are finally turning around?
              -3000 miles from Valley
              \_ no they aren't.  sorry.  check the bay area job listings
                 online.  sucking.
           \_ /usr/local/csua/pub/jobs is a start if you can ignore all the
              old postings.  Come to think of it, I'll go send nag mail to
              anyone with anything more than 6 months old and post one of
              my own I need to hire  -mel
           \_ actually, i was posting for a friend of mine. he has five+
              years experience, worked at a few startups, and has
              worked at sapient for the last 4 years. he's looking for a
              product/project manager position. -abe
2003/6/21-23 [Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28796 Activity:high
6/21    I will need to find a place to rent starting near the end of this year,
        1 bed room or even a studio. Almost anywhere in the bay area is OK.
        It must have broadband, not be in a slum/war zone, and not be run-down,
        otherwise just want the rent to be as low as possible.  Where
        should I look into/avoid?  When should I start looking?  Any url?
        Ok tnx.                            -- away from BA for many years.
        \_ Adams Point area of Oakland (north side of the lake between harrison
           and lakeshore.  There are a ton of buildings around me with signs
           up.  A 1 bd goes for just under $800 most places.  And there are
           a number of very nice buildings, nice restaurants, decent bars.
           BART and freeway accessible. --scotsman
        \_ can prob find an in-law cheaply in SF in the sunset/parkside
           Office-- their have some good, not-too-expensive places listed.
        \_ YMCA?
        \_ Your entire running-dog-pound of a country is a war zone.
                Love,  -Chemical Ali
           \_ Didn't this guy get scrubbed in a missile attack or something?
        \_ If you're an alum, pay your dues and take advantage of the Housing
           Office-- they have some good, not-too-expensive places listed.
2003/6/18-19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:28759 Activity:very high 57%like:28757
6/17    Bay Area housing price drop:
        It's about time.
        \_ Hey genius, they're talking about a 1249 sqft 3BR going for
           around $450k.  You think that's cheap in some way?  I've
           lived in apartments bigger than that.  Poor clueless fool,
           the permanent long term trend is 4 steps up, 1 step down.
           If you couldn't afford to get in earlier, you won't be
           getting in later unless *your* finances change dramatically
           for the better.  Hoping that there's some dramatic crash in
           the housing market before you buy will only cost you more
           when/if you finally do.  Your own link doesn't even say
           what you claim it says.  It's the 18th.  Shouldn't you be
           writing a check to your landlord in another 10 days?
                \_ which is why many people don't buy until they get in late
                   20s early 30s.  At that point if they are ina field that
                   makes real money they are probably making significant
                   amouts at thier job, and if married they probably have 2
                   incomes.  That is a dramatic change.  Wanting to wait till
                   the market drops a bit if you suspect that at it will soon
                   doesn't change anything.  I mean if you think you will
                   be able to get more for your dollar in a year it makes
                   sense to just rent for 1 more year.
                   \_ then there's no reason to gloat or hope for a housing
                      collapse.  all it means is bidding against other people
                      for the tiny number of houses on the market being sold
                      by those who are forced to sell due to forced moves such
                      as job transfer or divorces.  no one else is going to
                      take a loss.  housing stock will shrivel to nothing if
                      the prices collapse.
                \_ Uh, oh, someone woke up on the wrong side of a mortgage
                   this morning.
                   \_ paying off my 15 year in 8 years.  thanks for caring.
                \_ He never said they're cheap. He just said they dropped,
                   which they did.
                   \_ Not unless you consider the one small town mentioned in
                      the article as "the Bay Area".
                \_ I'm the op and I don't pay rent. I own 2 houses in
                   southern cal where the price has been rising steadily.
                   You sound bitter. Did you buy silicon valley property
                   at a bad time? If so, don't worry. It's just a matter
                   of time before it goes up. Peace to you.
                   \_ I'm up $150k on my home thanks.  I'd never buy in the
                      always insanely over inflated SV market.  If you're an
                      LA home owner why do you bother posting falsely about
                      pricing in the Bay Area?  You're a renter.  I doubt you
                      even own the welcome mat outside your door.
                        \_ "always insanely overinflated" is an impossibility;
                           if it's "always" overinflated, that must mean it
                           always goes up as much as everything else.  -tom
                           \_ WINNER OF THE PEDANT AWARD, 2003!
                \_ Doesn't matter where you buy in CA, the price will
                   double (at least) every 12 yrs (historically speaking).
                   \_ do you have a reference for this statement?
        \_ Silicon Valley is not the Bay Area:
           \_ dont bring facts into this.  i hate that.  we're having a very
              nice little flame fest without any facts and then you come along.
              \_ yermom. There. Now it's an official flamefest.
                 \_ i feel all warm n fuzzy now.
                    \_ that's what your mom told me
                       \_ Damn it, it's "yermom" not "your mom." RTFM.
2003/6/18 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:28757 Activity:nil 57%like:28759
6/17    Bay Area housing price drop: (
        It's about time.
2003/4/21 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Banking, Computer/HW/Drives] UID:28177 Activity:high
4/20    I just got a "buy 4 CDs or else we bill you" notice from
        Columbia House. (I signed up in '96).  I'm tempted to respond
        saying they'd never expressed a time limit anywhere in the
        membership agreement (moreover, the ad I used to sign up
        mentions a "No-Time-Limit Membership"), but I have this
        paranoid suspicion that these letters are some columbia house
        manager's clever scheme to grift some immediate cash, and
        might save both me and customer support time if I continue to
        ignore their mailings.  Can they really cash me in now?
        I imagine almost everyone has had some experience w/
        shady CD club.
        \_ Yes, as part of the the Patriot Act.  Regime Change at Home,
           End Racism.
           \_ Hey that was a useful reply.  Not only did you complete ignore
              a decent question and turn it into some idiotic political screed
              but your rant was poorly executed and mindless.
                \_ Are you saying you expect better in the motd?
                   \_ Are you saying only white people can ride fast
2003/3/9-10 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:27633 Activity:moderate
3/9     Anyone know people at UW or such places who might be interested in
        subletting this summer? I'm looking at an internship for Amazon, and
        they have a very nice plan if you find your own housing. Downtown
        Seattle would be ideal, close to Amazon HQ (the address of which,
        afaik, is at: ). If so, mail me or something
        Thanks! - jhs
        \_, Seattle: --chris
        \_ There are tons of vacancies in Seattle. 50% of the apt.
           buildings downtown probably have vacancies. Take your pick.
           If you have trouble finding a place, I've even got a room. --saarp
           \_ Ah, I should have thought of craigslist, I didn't realize they
              did Seattle. I forgot to mention above that I'm looking for a
              furnished place (since I'll only be there 3 months) but someone
              pointed me to a furniture rental place. Anways, thanks for the
              ideas! - jhs
2003/2/26 [Transportation/Car, Reference/RealEstate] UID:27532 Activity:nil
2/25    Ok this car alarm has been going on for 10 hours straight and it's
        parked on the street by my apartment. What can I do about it LEGALLY?
        \_ steal the car.  Clearly no one will notice.
2003/2/22 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:27496 Activity:nil
2/22    Help me understand something. Let's say if the owner OKed the
        user of firework, then the band is free of any responsibility?
        wtf?  If someone comes to my house to cook and burns down my
        house, am I going to be held responsible because I OKed the
        person to cook?  I say the fucking band should be sued, or
        better yet, a bullet in each one of their head is the only way
        to justice.
        \_ Did you watch the band leader's interview on the telly? He
           is one fucked up dude, and said that the band had permission,
           although, he personally didn't check with the owner, he said
           the band mgr did. However, another night club owner said this
           band pulled the same stunt with his club and used pyro even
           though the band didn't have permission. this particular last
           time was this past valentine's day. although, prob not the
           club's fault, they will prob have to have somebody check out
           a band's setup from now on to check for pyro.
2003/2/16 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:27433 Activity:moderate
2/15    After working in the software industry for seven years, I am
        looking into switch to something more emotionally-satifying,
        like educational/non-profit/medical care sectors.  What's the
        next best way to get into a completely new field besides getting
        a new degree?
        \_ Become a real estate agent.  My agent was an engineer more than ten
           years ago, then he figured he could make more money by being an
           agent, so he switched field.
           \_ warning: this is a troll or a lie.  real estate agents have the
              morals of a corporate trial lawyer with the intelligence of
              the average gas station attendant.  there is no lower form of
              life.  why not try dealing crack?  better a crack dealer than
              a real estate agent.  at least the crack dealer *tells* you
              what they're selling and doesn't tell you they're your
              best freind.
           \_ He asked for something emotionally satisfying, not renumerative.
              Perhaps if your number one love was money, you could confuse
              the two.
        \_ You can transition by becoming a SW Eng in those areas. Educ is
           probably the easiest, as we always need qualified teachers.
           \_ Actually California now has a teacher glut.  The shortage was
              (and is) in math/science teachers at inner citty schools.
              \_ ...and most software engineers have a very strong background
                 in math and science and live in inner city areas.  somehow
                 i doubt the OP is likely to become an art teacher in suburban
                 \_ url?
                 \_ ok let me spell it out for you: they want black and
                    hispanic teachers for the black and hispanic kids.  they
                    do not welcome your cracker white ass in the inner city
                    schools.  same thing for most asians.  why must i spell
                    out these ugly truths for you?
                    \_ because you're a moron who gets off hearing himself
                       talk.  I know several people who've taught math and
                       science in inner city schools and none of them were
                       black or hispanic.
                       \_ did they teach basic reading comprehension to their
                          friends?  ask for a refresher course.
2003/1/31 [Finance/Banking, Reference/RealEstate] UID:27258 Activity:insanely high 50%like:26400
1/31    motd poll: when i consider all of my debts, including student
        loan, credit card, and mortgage, and all of my assets, i am
        in the black: .....
        in the red: ...
        debt?  What's debt?: ...
        living with my parents: ..
        living with yermom: .
        my parents/in-laws living with me:
        \_ For those with a house, being in the red is normal for the
           first decade or so.
           \_ Don't forget, the house is an asset.
                \_ but all that intrest isn't
                   \_ (Value of house - mortgage) is usually a positive number.
                      The quickest way to get in the black is to buy a house.
                      It is not normal at all to be in the red for a decade
                      after buying a house. --dim
                   \_ Neither is rent.  Shelter isn't free.
        \_ Folks, you don't count a mortgage or student loans as the same kind
           of debt as your CCs.  CC's and other crap are 'consumer debt' which
           is money you wasted on junk to live the american lifestyle.  Debt
           from a mortgage or student loans is a valuable investment in your
           future.  I have zero student debt, zero consumer debt and over $300k
           of mortgage debt.  I am way in the black.  If I had no mortgage but
           $20k of CC debt I'd be fucked.
2003/1/16 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:27119 Activity:high
1/15    Anyone know if mortgages come in terms other than 15 and 30 year?
        \_ Yes, they do.
        \_ Yes, you can get a mortgage in almost any term from 1 to 30 years.
            \_ URL?  From any bank?
               \_ Yes.  Pick your poison.
        \_ I don't know, but say if you want a 23-year fixed mortgage, you can
           get a 30-year fixed mortgage and then make a constant prepayment
           every month and pay it off in 23 years.  --- yuen
           \_ I can't explain why, but the spread sheets i've played around
              with show this to be a losing manuever.  E.g. if you take a 30
              year fixed loan at 6 % and prepay such that you are making
              EXACTLY the same payments as you would be if you had gotten a
              15 year 6%, you don't end up paying off the loan for like 19
              years!  That's a pretty huge difference.
              \_ Your spreasheet is wrong.  I checked with the amortization
                 calculator on E-LOAN ( and you'll indeed
                 pay it off in 15 years.  I know this calculator is correct
                 because when I plug in my numbers it matches with my mortgage
                 statements from the bank.  The only other thing to consider is
                 whether or not there's a prepayment penalty, but even that
                 shouldn't make a difference of 4 years.  Most loans nowadays
                 don't have the penalty anyway.  --- yuen
2002/12/30-31 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26943 Activity:high
12/30   Shit, I finally remember what used to be there before Wall Berlin
        and someone pulls the thread.
        \_ bastard!  what was in the building pre-wall?
           \_ Cafe Durant, but it's still there, isn't it? Aren't they all
              in the same building?
              \_ what was... in the space... that USED TO BE
                 wall berlin.  no it's not cafe durant.  cafe
                 durant is ABOVE the old wall berlin space.
                 Wall Berlin is closed now, the space is going
                 to become a tea house.  what was there BEFORE
                 WALL BERLIN.  I will kill you all.
                 \_ It was some crappy sandwich place. I remember
                    eating there before it closed. Let me rattle
                    my brain some more and see if I can remember
                    the name.
                    \_ Togo's?
                \_ no togo's was on bancroft.
                incidentally why is that lot on Telegraph still vacant?
                \_ Evil Rasputin's guy owns the lot.  Doesn't want
                   Amoeba to expand.
                \_ so why not build housing?  or does he think
                   students who live there... might shop at Amoeba?
                   I guess that actaully makes sense in some weird
                   \_ I dunno.  How much property tax does he have to spend
                      every year on that lot?
                      \_ Is that all you can think about?
                         Go back to russia, jewboy.
2002/12/9-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26769 Activity:insanely high
12/9    What's the legal limit on rent increate in SF?  Thanks.
        \_ What's the % slav-jew ethnicity of your landlord?
           \_ Hardy frickin' har.
        \_ 42
        \_ I thought that the rental market in SF crashed along with
           the .com boom.  Was that just for commercial property?
           If it also applies to residential property you should
           tell your landlord "Rent increase?  You on crack?  BYE" --PeterM
           \_ Rents are still way higher than they were even four years
              \_ I'm actually considering buying a house and collect rent to
              ago, so if you have been in a rent controlled apt, your
              rates are less than market.
              \_ I'm actually considering buying a house and collecting rent to
                 cover (part of) the mortgage, and I'm thinking whether I
                 should buy in SF or in the Fremont area.  Houses in SF seem to
                 appreciate faster, but because of rent control I might be
                 collecting much-lower-than-market rent 10 years down the road
                 if the tenant I find now doesn't move out by then.
                 \_ I wouldn't want to be a landlord in SF, unless it made
                    it possible for me to be a home-owner there.  You have
                    almost no rights, besides charging whatever the market
                    will bear when you have a vancancy.  Private property
                    means very little.
                    \_ Death to landlords!  You have an obligation to provide
                       affordable housing even if it means you're paying more
                       in property taxes than you're taking in in rent and
                       losing money.  Tax the rich til they aint rich no more!
                       \_ And yet landlords still find it profitable to
                          invest in San Francisco rental housing. Ain't
                          that  something?
                          \_ Nonsense.  As a SF landlord you're not allowed to
                             sell your property.  Clue up before opening mouth.
                 \_ Don't pay more for a mortgage than you are collecting
                    in rent. That is bad business. --dim
                    \_ But the higher the mortgage payment is, the faster the
                       interest goes down and the faster you pay off the
                       principle.  Doesn't this also apply to rental property?
                                   \- if you dont pay taxes on this rental
                                      income that could make a sizable diff
                       \_ Is this a troll? --dim
                 \_ Well, yeah, that is sort of the point of rent control,
                    isn't it? To stop out-of-town real estate speculators
                    from profiting from the housing shortage in SF.
                    \_ No.  Not at all.  Rent control is there to force private
                       property owners to subsidize the socialist system in SF.
                       If it wasn't for rent control, it wouldn't be such a
                       nightmare to find housing and the housing you'd find
                       would be better quality instead of the rat infested
                       closets you get now for an arm and two legs.
                       \_ Only if you'd made your millions on the tech
                          bubble.  Rent control exists to prevent landlords
                          from evicting tenants unreasonably and raising
                          rents to ridiculous levels in boom times.  Remove
                          rent control and the only place a middle-income
                          family could afford would be a rat-infested
                          closet costing an arm and a leg. --erikred
                          \_ do you have any real world examples of this?
                             on the other hand, high rents would encourage
                             greatly the creation of more housing, and with
                             rent control they have little incentive to
                             improve the buildings because they can't get
                             more rent than the other guys anyway.
                             \_ dont ask for evidence/proof of any hot button
                                socialist issues or you'll get censored.
                             \_ Don't you read newspapers?  I have seen quite
                                a few articles about this with interviews
                                with families.  I don't like rent control
                                though.  I like building more housing, but
                                there are a lot of vested interest,
                                bureaucratic hurdles that makes that
                                difficult.                      - !op
                             \_ Are you actually asking for real world examples
                                of places with expensive rents that do not have
                                rent control? How about Los Altos, Hermosa
                                Beach, Tiburon and The Hamptons. Somehow high
                                rents have not had the effect you claim in
                                those places.
                                \_ Rent control as a short term solution
                                   to housing problems is ok, but the
                                   real solution is building more housing.
                                   When no new housing is built and rent
                                   control drags on and on forever, it
                                   becomes a problem itself.  Newly built
                                   housing should not be under rent-
                                \_ You know what? You don't find many rat-
                                   infested closets in those places. It just
                                   means it's an expensive control
                                   cannot make an expensive area inexpensive.
                                   It just fucks things up in other ways.
                                   \_ But it does makes expensive areas
                                      inexpensive, for people who have lived
                                      in rent controlled apartments for a long
                                      time. I know a bunch of long time San
                                      Franciscans who would have had to move
                                      if they would have suffered rent
                                      increases like the market in the late
                                      90s. You can argue that is unfairly
                                      pushes the burden onto new tenants, but
                                      you cannot claim that it does not lower
                                      rents for most. Also, study what happened
                                      in Boston after rent control went away.
                                      Median rents went up much faster than
                                        \_ Basically what you are saying is
                                           that the owner and new tenants
                                           have to subsidize the "poor"
                                           people because they have a "right"
                                           to live in a nice neighborhood
                                           even though they can't afford to
                                           pay the fair market rate for that
                                           property. Yeah that sounds fair.
                                           I can understand if its someones
                                           fixed income grandma, but most of
                                           the the time its some luser arts
                                           major who can't get a job outside
                                           of food service because (s)he
                                           wasted four years in college taking
                                           worthless courses about envirno
                                           senitivity (subsidized by donations
                                           from eng. alumni) instead of
                                                \- berkeley funding is pretty
                                                   float you own boat so i
                                                   think you can to some extent
                                                   avoid funding the flakes.
                                           learning anything useful.
                                           \_ People shouldn't be suddenly
                                              thrown out of their homes
                                              because of wild market
                                              fluctuations caused by
                                              oppurtunistic speculators.
                                              Squatters are bad, but there
                                              having people evicted all of
                                              the time is a recipe for social
                                              instability and an increase
                                              in the homeless population.
                                              Rent control should prevent
                                              people from suddenly being
                                              booted, but it shouldn't
                                      \_ Restored!
                                              depress prices once someone
                                              moves out.
                repairs? That's bs. If some landlord was that strapped he'd have
                to sell his building, great. Traffic? The city is already
                                                 \_ I know this will sound
                                                    callous and insensitive
                                                    to you, but its an apt.
                                                    not a home. If you want
                                                    home buy one. If you don't
                                                    own it (and never will)
                                                    then its the same as a
                                                    motel and the owner can
                                                    and should be able to
                                                    raise the rates on you
                                                    in order to maximize his
                                                    roi on the property.
                                              \_ Step #1 - tenant gets notice
                                                           of rent increase.
                                                 Step #2 - tenant plans to move
                                                 Step #3 - tenant moves
                                                 I don't see where
                                                 "instability" steps into the
                                                 process of an adult planning
                                                 their future. If you have any
                expensive with bad traffic and I really don't think rent control
                is keeping that in check. Landlords with a bad record will have
                problems, well that's their own fault. I think you're over-
                estimating the magnitude of these bubbles. As for a retail
                shortage, actually it would just mean high retail prices. Which
                is again fine, if people are willing to pay for it, if not, let
                them go away.
                                                 illusions as to the
                                                 replacibility of people,
                                                 go visit a graveyard.
                                                 Letting markets work, works.
                             \_ Witness the numerous "family-member wants
                                to move in, so I'm evicting you" cases that
                                occurred in San Francisco circa 99-00 where
                                no such family member moved in and landlords
                                simply jacked up the rent.  Also, according
                                to Berkeley Rent Stabilization Board,
                                landlord can raise rents to reflect Capital
                                Improvements (Reg. 1267C).  There are lots
                                of things wrong with Rent Control, but
                                trusting the landlords to play fair doesn't
                                seem to work either.  Until we get a better
                                proposal, I'm for keeping it. --erikred
                                \_ what's so wrong with letting a landlord
                                   evict/raise rents? as long as they have
                                   to allow enough notice time. why do they
                                   owe you anything?
                                   \_ There is more to life than profit.
                                   \_ If all landlords raise rents to cash
                                      in on economic bubbles, the only ppl
                                      who will be able to live in a city will
                                      be families who bought houses early or
                                      ppl making money in the current boom.
                                      Small business owners and retail
                                      workers, already living on a small
                                      profit margins, will no longer be able
                                      to live in the city, making traffic
                                      worse or resulting in a shortage of
                                      retail services for the boomers.
                                      When the bubble bursts, prices will
                                      remain horribly inflated and no one
                                      will be able to afford them; land-
                                      lords will have to lower rents to
                                      compete with each other, lowering
                                      money available for repairs, and
                                      new tenants will be wary of signing
                                      leases with landlords with a rent-
                                      raising record.  It makes the whole
                                      system unstable. --erikred
                                      \_ Wisely spoken.
                                      \_ Acutually, stupid opportunistic
                                         landlords go out of business,
                                         and the system works as usual.
                                         If there was money available for
                                         making repairs before this bubble
                                         why would it not be there *after*
                                         the bubble?
                What you say doesn't make sense to me. Why would prices _/
                remain horribly inflated if no one could pay them? No money for
                repairs? That's bs. If some landlord was that strapped he'd
                have to sell his building, great. Traffic? The city is already
                expensive with bad traffic and I really don't think rent
                control is keeping that in check. Landlords with a bad record
                will have problems, well that's their own fault. I think
                you're over- estimating the magnitude of these bubbles. As for
                a retail shortage, actually it would just mean high retail
                prices. Which is again fine, if people are willing to pay for
                it, if not, let them go away.
                \_ Look what happend to those cities without rent control in
                   the 1970's: Philadelphia, Detroit, St. Louis, when people
                   just went away. Look at the cities with rent control:
                   Boston, New York and San Francisco. Which are better
                   off today? Societies have a vested interest in keeping
                   neighborhoods intact. I think this beats out a few
                   wealthy loudmouths complaining about not making more
                   money than they already are.
                   \_ uh, they were better off back then also. but also they
                      had more heavy industry that suffered nationwide.
                      keep in mind most people "make money off the current
                      boom." the wages of "little people" go up to cope.
                   \_ Agreed.  --erikred
                   \_ I will agree to the correlation, but the causal?
                      more data please.
        \_ What all of you are missing out in this SF rent control thing is
           the evils of the rent controlled tenant who sublets out rooms in
           the apartment for more money than the landlord is allowed to charge
           this primary tenant.  WTF makes it ok to let this one person make a
           profit off the land lord's property and efforts for doing nothing
           but sharing the same place they'd be sharing anyway if the land lord
           was allowed to control his own property?  Subletting out should be
           illegal and instantly force the property out of rent controlled
           \_ This is a lot of why I didn't vote for EE. --erikred
              Clarification:  subletting _with_ the permission of the landlord
              is fine.  The right to sublet against the landlord's wishes
              is not.  --erikred
2002/11/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26614 Activity:high 66%like:26612
11/23   landlord survey - your landlord is:
        black, white, puertorican or chinese boy: M
        \_ what's a "puertorican"?
        \_ Ever heard of "Puerto Rico"?
           \_ he means Borricuan.  (yes look it up).
           \_ Yes.  What's a "puertorican"?
              \_ its "Puerto Rican" with a typo. get over it.
               \_ Goddamn, one fucking space left out... it was a quote from a
                  shitty missy elliot song in case you didnt know.
        dirty, old, and indian:
        other azn:
        persian: .
        \_ are there persians anywhere but iran? why dont people say iranian?
        a jew: .
             \_ you mean evil money grubbing vampiric baby killing jew, right?
                \_ You forgot lying, and backstabbing.
                \_ mmm, vampiric babies
                   \_ I believe it's a string of adjectives modifying the
                      object jew but you knew that.
        who cares?: .............
        small, green, and filled with jam: .
        racist: go BEAH
        old white woman with 6 cats, 2 birds, and an old mangy dog: .
        no idea: .
2002/11/23 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26612 Activity:nil 66%like:26614
11/23   landlord survey - your landlord is:
        other azn:
        a jew: .
2002/11/8-9 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26473 Activity:moderate
11/7    does anyone have that link to the 5 part article on real estate?
        \_ probably.
        \_ Here's the outline:
           Para 1: Introduction: The three main factors on real estate prices.
           Para 2: Location
           Para 3: Location
           Para 4: Location
           Para 5: Conclusion
           \_ part!=paragraph
2002/11/4-5 [Computer/Networking, Reference/RealEstate] UID:26396 Activity:high
11/4    I'm about 9000 feet from the CO. In an apartment complex.
        What kind of DSL speed can I expect? thanks.
        The Covad phone answerer claims they already checked my apartment
        and it can get 200/64.
        What if I move to SF duplex at 7000 ft from CO?
        \_ if thats what they claim at 7000' then the results of the MLT
           must have been pretty bad... ask them what the results look like.
           at 7000' you should be able to get their highest service unless
           there is something wrong with your copper pair. if thats the case
           then even DSL w/ pacbell will be limited.
        \_ Why don't you ask Covad about your potential new address?
           How about Telco ADSL?
        \_ Covad routinely lies to get you to upgrade to more expensive DSL
2002/10/27 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26334 Activity:nil
10/27   by 03 repugs will control the white house, the senate
        and the house, as well as majority of the governorships.
        \_ because you always look smart using cutesy little ad hominen when
           discussing your political opposition.  you wouldn't look like an
           ignorant bratty child.  nope, not at all.  have a nice day.
           \_ And responding in kind makes you look so much more mature.
2002/10/12 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26162 Activity:high
10/11   Condo owners and people who bought housing in Oakland: sorry, didn't
        mean to upset you.  It's just the way things are.  We all make
        mistakes sometimes.  [please stop erasing my apology]
2002/10/12 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26161 Activity:high
10/11   On why condos are a bad deal:
        1) you have high HOA rates
        2) value does not rise with rest of housing market thus putting you
           even further behind the curve if you want a house some day
        3) politics.  you have to deal with the condo board which consists of
           your neighbors.  the people most likely to run for board positions
           are typically those least capable of managing anything.
        4) #3 leads to the board not spending money wisely so when you roof
           falls in you have to beg the board who are typically *not* your
           personal friends to repair it.  repairing it will require an extra
           HOA fee because they spent out the budget on things like flowers or
           repairing *their* roof last year while there was still money.  you
           are *required* legally to pay whatever they say into the hoa fund.
           you can't sell and walk away because they'll put a lien on your
           unit which must be cleared before you can sell.
        5) there are probably other but #2, #3, #4 are killers.
        \_ There have been a few articles lately asserting that at this time,
           and particularly in our region, condos have been appreciating better
           than homes, though it could be skewed by being on the lower end
           and all the other issues are still deal stoppers for me.
           \_ if by "our region," you mean the Bay Area, your region
              is totally fucked.
        \_ #3 does it for me.  why not just rent, if you're going to have
           some nosey fucks telling you how to live anyway?
        \_ Tangentially related: in the past two years, a law was passed making
           it really easy to sue the condo builder. You can attend seminars on
           how to sue the contractor. Insurance rates for developers building
           condos have risen a few thousand dollars to 100k+. So if you're a
           bastard, buying a condo might make smart financial sense.
           \_ urlP?
           \_ you *really* don't want to get into a lawsuit over anything. why
              get into a long term situation where your only recourse is a
              lawsuit?  madness.
        \_ #2 is ridiculous. If this were true, condos would get cheaper and
           cheaper in comparison to homes. This has not happened.
           \_ Yeah, according to that theory, a crack house in Gardena or
              Hawthorne would be more expensive than a nice condo in Redondo.
           \_ Hmm, that sounds really familiar. -crebbs
           \_ Shrug.  Do your own math and bet your own money on it.  I don't
              care.  You're a motd poster, you must be right.
              \_ Condos are appreciating faster than homes:
                 But don't let mere facts get in the way of your prejudices.
                 \_ Wow, that means my best investment is a condo because we
                    know it'll eventually surpass the value of a house! Cool!
                    One year's worth of statistics during a recession is a
                    great way to determine your best housing buy!  Thanks!
                    \_ What it probably means it that sometimes condos
                       appreciate faster than homes, sometimes it is the
                       other way around. Are you really that dense?
                       \_ What it probably means is you didn't read the link.
                          If you read the whole article you'd see condos are
                          still a high-risk (ie: shitty) investment.  It's
                          *your* money.  Piss it away any way you'd like.  Life
                          does not have a save/restore feature.  Good luck!
                       \_ Bay Area is an extreme case, and is likely to
                          get more extreme in the future.  Condos doubling
                          or tripling in price within a few years is a
                          phenomenon that has happened in many cities in
                          the world before.
        \_ #2 is only true where there is ample land.  Your condo in
           Manhattan, San Francisco, or lake front Chicago appreciates just
           \_ You can't afford a condo in places like that.  If you could you
              could easily but a house in a normal place for cash.  Your point
              is meaningless in this context.
              \_ Just illustrating a point.  There is a continuum of places
                 from the Nevada Desert to San Francisco.
                 \_ Yes and some people buy branded water for their dog, too.
                    I don't.  I doubt you do either.  There's no point in
                    bringing up the extreme cases.  Stat 2.
              \_ Not really, because my choice is either a condo in San
                 Francisco or a house in Union City or Vacaville.
        \_ The choice is not between house and condo, the choice is between
           rent now and buy house in some distant future, or stop renting and
           buy condo now.
           \_ And get stuck in condo... forever.
           \_ Or rent now and still can't afford a house in some distant
        \_ So what is the deal with houses in planned neighborhoods that have
           HOA dues?  Are those just as bad?
           \_ No.  I pay $65/month to cover basic front yard gardening and
              other trivia.  They have nothing to do with my roof getting
              repaired or not.
        \_ So some people are whining that #2 is invalid.  No one has yet to
           explain why condos are still a good idea given #1,#3 and #4.  Even
           if I grant #2 is invalid (which I don't but go with me here), the
           others should be enough to make any sane person run screaming into
           the night.  When I rent, the apartment is a throw-away.  When it
           gets dirty (about the time the lease ends), I just move to a new
           one.  With a house, I own it, so I'm damned well going to take care
           of it.  With a condo, I get the worst of both worlds.  I don't own
           all of it but have other people forcing me to spend my money in
           stupid ways.  It's insane.  I'd rather rent and not get into a
           deeply financially risky situation I have limited control over.
2002/10/10-11 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26148 Activity:insanely high
10/10   Housing bubble in the Bay Area:
        \_ Cool! If I wait three years, I can actually buy a home here.
           \_ uh, did you actually read the article?
              \_ uh, did you? Train harder. It's at the end.
           \_ I'm still waiting for the Big One to scare everyone away.
              \_ When I was in 2nd grade we had this whole big thing about
                 safety and earthquake training and whatever because "they"
                 were +_certain_+ the Big One was coming Real Soon Now.  Still
        \_ Just for info, Inman is a real estate INDUSTRY "news source."
           I do not need to read the article to know that this
           article will indicate that there is no housing bubble (not
           saying there is or isn't just saying that this source
           has stong incentive to say "there's no bubble.")
        \_ That article says Bay Area prices are vulnerable to a 10% correction.
           Consumer Reports says SF home prices are 15% above historical
           price/income ratios and Oakland and San Jose are 25% above. All
           this points to a correction. But this is not the same as a "bubble."
           \_ How is a price correction different from a bubble bursting?
              \_ A correction is prices drop back to historical price/income
                 ratios. A bubble burst is if drops below that level. Some
                 argue it's more the percentage drop. Six of one, yada, yada..
                 \_ sez who?
                    \_ motd wisdom
           \_ Wow so you're like totally fucked if you bought in Oakland or
              SJ in the last few years, huh?  That was a bad bet I guess.
                \_ the article suggests a 10% price drop over 7 years.  If
                   you bought 3 years ago in a reasonable area, your home has
                   already appreciated 50%.  -tom
                   \_ What's a "reasonable" area in Oakland?  I wasn't aware
                      there were any.  Have they taken the Murder Capitol
                      crown from Palo Alto this year yet?
                   \_ 30+ percent in 10 years?  Not disastrous but not
                      wonderful either.
                        \_ it's a leveraged investment so your return is
                           actually much greater than that.  A $200K house
                           with $20K down payment that appreciates to $300K
                           and then drops to $270K gives you $70K return on
                           your $20K investment.  Plus tax benefits, minus
                           transaction fees.  It's still pretty damn good.
                           \_ When did any property in Oakland ever hit $200k
                              much less go up to $300k?
                              \_ when was the last time you were in oakland?
                                 of course, by the same rights, when did you
                                 last talk with your head out of your ass?
                                 \_ this was useful.  thank you for participating
                              \_ houses in the hills go for millions.
                                 3/2 in Rockridge is $600K.  3/2 in Temescal
                                 or Piedmont Ave is $500K.  The median home
                                 price in Oakland was $341K in August.  -tom
                                 \_ Wow!  That's amazing!  There really *is*
                                    a huge bubble waiting to burst in Oakland.
                                    There's only just so many suckers with
                                    money willing to buy in Oakland....
                                    \_ Oakland's crime rate is lower than
                                       Berkeley's, and is only slightly
                                       above SF's.  And really, the crime
                                       rate on Hegenberger and East 14th
                                       really isn't meaningful to someone at
                                       College and Shafter.  -tom
                           \_ Don't forget the 10 years of house payments,
                              those would count as part of the investment.
                              \_ Not really...that money would be going to
                                 rent, otherwise.  -tom
                                 \_ A typical house payment is larger than
                                    the rent you would otherwise pay to
                                    rent the same space.
                                    \_ Certainly not true in my case.  We
                                       went to a bigger house in a better
                                       neighberhood and reduced our net
                                       monthly cost.  -tom
                                       \_ So you were paying too much rent??
                                          That's nothing to brag about.
                                        \_ no, we were paying below-market
                                           rent at the time we moved out. -tom
                                           \_ Uh huh.  That makes a lot of
                                              sense.  My rent on a 2BR was
                                              about $1200 which was typical for
                                              what I had in most of the BA. My
                                              mortgage was $2550 on a non-jumbo
                                              30 year with a decent rate. The
                                              only way you could've ended up
                                              paying less is if you were
                                              renting a house and paying too
                                              much.  Let's see some numbers.
                                             \_ we were renting a 2/1 house
                                                for $1450--the tenants after
                                                us paid $1750.  Our net monthly
                                                mortgage cost is about $1400
                                                on a 3/2.  -tom
                           \_ Leveraged means additional risk, and you may
                              lose more than your principle.  Also, it's
                              a huge investment in terms of time and effort.
                                \_ fine, keep paying rent, I'm sure that's
                                   more rewarding.  -tom
                                   \_ I think the idea is more money down, less
                                      risk, still no rent, and buy in a better
                                      area than Oakland.  Depressed areas with
                                      high crime rates are always going to be
                                      the first and hardest hit.
                                   \_ Buy a house if you need it.  As
                                      an investment it may or may not
                                      work out but be prepared to spend
                                      lots of time and effort on it.
               \_ How overinflated are prices in various parts of the LA area?
                  Particularly the South Bay of the LA area.
                  \_ South Bay of the LA area?  We used to call that Orange
                     County.  Don't fuck with Mickey Mouse, you goon!
                     \_ No, that's NOT Orange county.  It's
                        basically the SW part of LA county, the
                        area south of LAX that includes Torrance,
                        Manhattan, Hermosa, and Redondo Beaches,
                        Palos Verdes, etc.  Definately not Orange
                        County, doesn't even border OC.  I believe
                        it refers to the southern part of the Santa
                        Monica Bay, which only extends down to Palos
                        Verdes, which is probably 15-20 miles west of OC.
                        \_ Look, boy, I told you before and this is the last
                           time, DON'T FUCK WITH MICKEY!  He has his own
                           Congressman and will utterly destroy you!
                \_ South Bay is bordered by Marina Del Rey and San Pedro.
                   Coastal cities only. You can find a small place for $400k
                   in Redondo, but all the other cities will run you $600k+
                   for almost anything. --lives in torrance
                   \_ OK.  But how overvalued is it?  How much will
                      it likely go down, and how soon, as compared
                      with the SF Bay Area?  Is it as "bad" of an
                      investment as Oakland or San Jose, which is
                      apparently 25% overvalued?  And, BTW, I live
                      in Torrance too.  Who are you and where in
                      Torrance do you live? -asb
                        \_ that article doesn't say "Oakland and San Jose
                           are 25% overvalued."  It's not that simple.  -tom
                      \_ Right now I rent a room in a house near the RH AMC.
                         If you ask me, I don't think prices will come
                         down too much in the next few years. The 30% tax
                         writeoff should offset any losses. But making $70k
                         I can't afford more than $250k, which means going
                         inland, which sucks.
                            \_ You could get a decent condo in the South
                                Bay of LA for that price, though probably not
                                in Manhattan or Hermosa.  I looked at a condo
                                for $180k near Vermont and Torrance Blvd.
                                It was a pretty decent 2 bedroom condo,
                                around 1000 sq ft.
                                \_ Condo != house.  It's a lousy investment.
                                   \_ Why is it so much worse of an
                                        investment?  Sure, you have to pay
                                        big HOA fees, but you save time and
                                        money.  You don't have to hire a
                                        gardener or reroof your house, etc.
                                        Is it really such a bad investment,
                                        and if so, why?
                                \_ Actually, I was considering a new condo
                                   in a decent part of Gardena, but I decided
                                   I'd rather live closer to the beach and in
                                   a better neighborhood. ($220k)
                                        \_ So where exactly did you buy
                                           this $220k condo?  Redondo?
                        \_ I made $72k and with 10% down I could afford $440k
                           at wash mutual using their hybrid ARM. the 10% down
                           is what opened doors (borrowed from relative). too
                           bad I got laid off (luckily before buying anything).
2002/10/3-4 [Reference/RealEstate, Recreation/House] UID:26091 Activity:high
10/3    I live in an apartment by a busy street and I hear the cars at night.
        Would it help if I place an extra acrylic panel on my windows (which
        I can get easily from Home Depot)?
        \_ Use aluminum foil.  Very classy.  Your neighbors will love it.
           \_ Dynamat. Not as wrinkled.
              \_ You're missing out on a key element of the aluminum style.
2002/10/1-2 [Finance/Banking, Reference/RealEstate] UID:26068 Activity:high
10/1    Does B of A offer competitive mortgage loans?  The rates and points
        quoted on their web sites seem pretty low, but I can't find any quote
        on the final closing costs.  I tried to ask over the phone, but I hung
        up after listening to the music for half an hour.  Thanks.
        \_ Don't pay points.  It's a loss if you refi.
           \_ It *may* be a loss if you sell or refinance, but it may not
              be. It will depend on when you do so. Do the math. --dim
              \_ How exactly is it a win to spend money on points and then refi
                 and lose the money?  What math?  Only if there's *many* years
                 between the first loan and the refi such that your points had
                 enough time to pay for themselves.  With rates as low as they
                 are now it would be utterly stupid to pay points with the
                 belief that rates will be this low again in the X-many years
                 required for the points to pay for themselves.  Once you pay
                 points, you can forget refis for a long time without taking
                 a loss on it.  Math?  Not too much math to figure this one
                 \_ I don't understand.  Since you think rates are low now and
                    it will not be this low again in X-many years, you think
                    you won't refinance again in X-many years, right?  Then
                    wouldn't it be smart instead of stupid to pay point that
                    requires X-many years to pay for themselves?
        \_ I have had a mortgage through BofA -- did it through a BofA
           loan agent who walked me through some hoops and got me a great
           interest rate with no points.  My current mortgage was obtained
           through a mortgage broker, much better deal this time around.  BofA
           is not too bad, but a mortgage broker did much better for me.
        \_ Try Fremont Bank.  They specialize in "no point no fee"
2002/9/30 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:26050 Activity:insanely high
9/29    Anyone had any success with taking your ex-landlord to small claims
        court over idiotic move-out deductions from your security deposit?
        Ours deducted such things as $140 for "cleaning windows, inside and
        out" and $300 for "mini blind repair (est.)" (only damage that I know
        of was that *one* blind had the plastic rod that opens/closes the
        louvers snapped off).  Unfortunately, I didn't do a walkthrough or
        take pictures of such minutia as the move-out condition of every mini-
        blind.  Landlord is an asshole, so appealing to his sense of reason and
        fairness won't be any help.  Will I just be wasting my time and getting
        into one big he-said/she-said catfight?
        \_ I'm not an expert, but I'd say that your odds are pretty poor.
           The landlord most likely has documents with notes made during the
           initial walkthru, and similar notes during the exit inspection.
           If you don't have any records or evidence that they're playing
           games with you, then you're basically screwed.  Again, I'm not an
           expert -- So it might be worth your while to check with any
           renter's associations that exist (berkeley has many).  Luck.  -mice
           \_ Actually I think you sould take him to small claims court.
              You have to pay a minor filling fee but relaly, if you have
              a bill as unreasonable as you say it is you should get back
              most of your deposit.  Plus you make the landlord have to spend
              a day going to court.  And, at least in some areas, not sure
              about CA, you get things like tripple damages.  There are a lot
              of landlords abusing deposits and the judges know it.  Hell,
              just threatening the guy with small claims court might get you
              your deposit back.
              \_ tripple? treble?  What are you trying to say?
                 \_ Triple?
        \_ Take this as a lesson.  How to rent: when you move in, *after* you
           have signed a contract with the landlord but *before* you have moved
           your shit in, you take pictures, and give a written description of
           *every* trivial anal rententive mark, gouge, stain, piece of fluff,
           dent, discoloration, drip, water stain, or anything else less than
           And you'll also want a pre-moveout walkthrough to give you a chance
           to correct anything before you're gone and the bastard sends you a
           bill.  Death to landlords.   Protect yourself from landlord scum
           and buy a house ASAP.  --ex-renter, happy home owner
           \_ Walkthroughs on entering and leaving an apartment with the
              landlord are SOP here--make sure you also both sign the above-
              mentioned written list of damages.  And bring a friend as a
              witness--even better, if it's a friend who knows what sort of
              damages to look for in apartments.  -John
        \_ Landlords can't charge you for "maintenance" things like washing
           windows--it's not your fault they're dirty.  You're not in great
           shape on mini-blinds and such.  -tom
           \_ Why not?  If you don't clean up the place before you leave,
           they should be able to bill you for that.  When you refer to
           maintenence items I think of items that need replacement, like
           bathroom tiling.  Not dirt removal.
           \_ However you may feel about it, tenants' rights are written as
              Tom describes. Cleaning your apartment is basically a courtesy to
              the landlord and the next tenant. The damage deposit is just
              that, a deposit to cover actual damage. E.g., when my housemate
              has a bad day and kicks a baseball sized whole in the wall near
              the fridge. --ulysses
              \_ Maybe in Berkeley or SF, but not the rest of the state.
        \_ In Berkeley, you can get the Rent Board to come to your appt and
           video tape it before you move in. It's highly recommended.
           \_ How much do they charge for that?
              \_ It's Berkeley... if you have to ask... well, it's free.
                 \_ Tax dollars.  Nothing is truly free, except BSD code maybe.
                    \_ Wasn't BSD code developed in a public university which
                       runs on tax dollars?
                       \_ Hmm, got me there. Ok, nothing is truly free.
                          \_ "property of the Regents of the University
                              of California"...
                              \_ Yermom is free.
2002/9/11-12 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25853 Activity:kinda low
9/11    How much does it cost to rent a studio in Berkeley? It doesn't have
        to be specially nice or fancy. The only requirement is that it should
        be within a resonable walking or biking distance from campus.
        \_ Your firstborn
           \_ Hardly.  It's nothing like it was.  Where are all the signs
              offering finder's fees/bounties/bribes to landlords?  Any chimp
              with first/last/deposit should be able to get something.
2002/9/5-6 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25779 Activity:high
9/5     Is there really a housing crisis in Berkeley?  From what I've heard,
        the new dorms on College and Durant are empty.
        \_ The bubble will burst.  the landlords will come to their senses
           after not being able to find a renter for, oh, 18 months.
           \_ SF landlords are still dropping rents on places that they
              couldn't rent out for 12+ months.  They're still too high. Given
              SF's draconian rent control board & policies, it isn't too hard
              to figure out they're better off market than renting low.
        \_ We have subsided from the fever pitch of the last few years.
           Berkeley is now roughly at par with the rest of the Bay Area, i.e.,
           it is still about one and half times as expensive as, say, Seattle.
           Whether you want to say that means there is no crisis is your call.
           A great many Low Income households (<80% of median household income)
           are paying >30% of their AGI for housing, which is the fed and state
           criterion for affordable housing shortage. -- ulysses
           \_ this is orthogonal to your point, but seattle is getting
              worse. from the anecdotes i've heard from folks who lived
              there recently, i doubt it's 1.5 times cheaper than the BA.
                \_ right now seattle is FUCKED as far as the job market goes.
                   It makes the BA look good.  Housing is really dropping
                   because of that.
        \_ There is no waiting list for housing this year.  -tom
        \_ No wait list = no crisis.  Sounds more like a landlord's vacancy
           crisis to me.  Anyone know what the coop's vacancy rate is?
           \_ Coops are still building new housing.
              \_ That doesn't say anything about the vacancy rate.
                 \_ Tell us what the vacancy rate is then master of the obvious.
                    \_ Duh!  That's what I've been asking for 2 days!
                       \_ The phone number is (510) 848-1936. Try calling them.
        \_ I am renting a room in a three-bedroom house in Berkeley. The house
           is pretty nice (although, a bit far away from campus). After
           the lanlord jacked up the price from $450 to $600, my other
           roommates moved out in march and no one has moved in since then.
           I now have a three bedroom house all for myself, muahahaha ..
           \_ Can I move in?
           \_ The landlord didn't try to stick you with the whole house?
              \_ And risk losing his last tenant?
                 \_ Shrug.  I didn't say it was smart.  I only asked.
                 \_ I'm sure he could re-rent it for more than $600. What's
                    the catch? --dim
                    \_ You have to sleep with his wife the Russian ex-olympic
                       swimmer.  Just ignore the beard and broad shoulders.
                       \_ what russian swimmers are there?
                       \_ I thought the (East) Germans were more notorious
                          for that sort of thing? -Jon
                          \_ It was a wide spread soviet victim problem.
                       \_ Why doesn't he get a new Russian mail-order bride?
2002/7/31-8/1 [Reference/RealEstate, Transportation/Car] UID:25465 Activity:high 58%like:25460
7/31    Very funny.  Someone changed my original post from "gas station owner"
        to "gay prostitute."  Here's the post again.  -op

        I am interested in changing my profession from a full time engineer to
        a full time gas station owner.  Any comments and/or URLs with more info
        regarding gas station ownership, maintaince, liabilities, etc.?
        \_ curious. where would you have this gas station? have it in hawaii
           \_ Preferably somewhere around the Bay Area.  Slightly further away
              is fine, but not too remote.  -op
        \_ Are you from the middle east or south asia?
        \_ most people think that owning a gas station is a way of making
           money while sitting on your ass all day long.  It's not.  It's
           actually a complicated REAL ESTATE business.  It's all about the
           location.  The difference between housing real estate and
           commercial real estate is that it's a lot harder to liquidate
           commercial real estate. You'll need to find another sap who wants
           to make money sitting your ass all day, just like you.
           \_ And you have to take the risk of getting robbed and breathing
              toxic fumes all day long.
              \_ Actually some 21 y/old HS drop out is running the counter.
                 You're at home watching cartoons.
        \_ I made acquaintance with two would-be gas station owners. One of
           them leveraged the equity in his station to acquire another and
           so on. He was grossing about $80K/month, but I don't know what
           his net was. He seemed to be doing well. The other paid $400K to
           buy a station and later had the EPA shut it down because it
           needed some ridiculous sum of money to comply with some new
           law. He lost everything. There's a lot to it. Why, may I ask,
           are gas stations in particular appealing to you? Do you have
           experience or friends/relatives with experience in this field? --dim
2002/7/29-30 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25439 Activity:insanely high
7/29    What are some instances where the housing market tanked, not due
        to natural disasters?
        \_ cities where it tied itself to a major industry or army base.
           when the company or military base closes shop, everything goes
           downhill.  Or places where there is a major factory disaster,
           like Love Canal in the 70s.
           \_ new england has dozens of cities like this that were tied to
              manufacturing of various kinds.  you may have heard about
              Stanley Tool relocating to Bermuda on paper and moving
              alot of their production overseas.  I used to live in the town
              that used to be the Stanley headquarters, and it's really really
              sad.  houses stay on the market for months and go for nothing
              to slum lords that rent them out to the shitheads who have moved
              in and destroyed the town as the decent people with the skills
              all moved out.  once there is a critilcal mass of shitheads in
              the town(attracted by the cheap housing), the decent folks become
              literaly afraid to send their kids to the local school, and
              you pass a realestate event horizon beyond wich only slum lords
              dare to tread.  If you're the kind of person who likes to
              "buy american", don't buy stanley tools.  fuck stanley.
        \_ Seattle in the '70s. Boeing cancelled the SST program and laid off
           several thousand engineers. The trickle down effect wiped out the
           local economy for over a decade. This was culminated by the billboard
           someone paid for at the edge of town at the time:
           local economy for over a decade. This was culminated by the bill-
           board someone paid for at the edge of town at the time:
           "Will the last person to leave Seattle please turn out the lights".
             -- ulysses
           \_ Follow on note - the general thinking is nothing like that will
              ever happen here because the Bay Area has a diversified
              base. The "effect" of the dot-com crash on the housing market
              (owning vs. renting) pretty much proved this.
              \_ Don't be so sure.  "General thinking" has often been proven
              \_ Yeah.  In Alameda, the dot-com crash combined with the closure
                 of the military base didn't seem to have an effect on the
                 home prices there.
                 \_ The dot-com crash didn't kill any jobs which existed
                    before 1997.  If Silicon Valley starts moving operations
                    en masse to India, the Bay Area would have the same kind
                    of dropout that the eastern industrial cities had when
                    all those industries moved overseas.  -tom
                    \_ Nonsense.  Jobs are not moving en masse to India.  If
                       you've ever been involved with an Indian project, you'd
                       know this "all the jobs are moving to India" noise for
                       the ridiculous FUD that it is.  Multi-lingual, multi-
                       time zone projects are insanely hard to get right.  Yes,
                       a certain amount of the grunge work and QA can be farmed
        \_ white flight from major cities had a serious effect on housing
                       out but those are $10/hr jobs here anyway.  All the real
                       work for American companies will continue to be done
                       right here for decades to come.  The only thing dumber
                       than sending important work to India is hiring masses of
                       incompetent H1b's based on fabricated resumes and the
                       recruiter's word.  Been there, done that, seen it fail
                       over and over.  My current company does India work but
                       only in very carefully measured doses and only the lamer
                       work.  The important work is still done here and always
                       will be because we don't want the company to go under.
                 \_ Au contraire. Alameda prices dived after the closure.
                    Prices on the unfashionable west side were about 200K
                    for a 2bd 1ba four years ago. Now the mean would be
                    closer to 400K due to leftover splash from dotcom.
                    \_ Oops!  I was only thinking about the Bay Farm side and
                       thought it represented the whole city.
                       \- you should see some of the photographs of places
                          like Flint, Michigan.
        \_ white people from major cities had a serious effect on housing
        \_ The real estate market in SoCal tanked after reaching all-time
           highs around 1989. It took about 8 years to recover. Shit happens.
           Like the stock market, the general trend is up. --dim
           \_ That's the key point here.  If you buy something with solid value
              such as real estate (and not the stock of Anderson clients) and
              _hold it_, then over the _long term_ you'll end up ahead no
              matter the ups and downs along the way.
              \_ "no matter what" should be replaced by probably not.  In
                 the Bay Area, anything west of the east bay hills should
                 be safe, unless it's in active gang land.
              \_ I'm sure people who bought condos in Allentown in 1972 think
                 this is great advice.  -tom
2002/7/25-26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25418 Activity:nil
7/25    There's this old Disney cartoon about a house that grew old and its
        neighbors (hirise) didn't like it, and eventually the house moved to
        a new place. What's the name of that cartoon?
        \_ "The Little House" see //
2002/6/26-27 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25202 Activity:moderate
6/26    Looking to buy a condo or townhouse. Please direct me to some
        online listings...
        \_ There are some better sites for some areas. Where are you looking
           to buy? -ausman
                \_ east bay -- OP's competition (if the same area)
2002/6/25 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25185 Activity:very high
6/24    What is the condo market in SJ right now? What can I get for say...
        \_ May I suggest that you buy a townhouse instead of a condo? I don't
           think you'll stay in that condo for very long.  You want to get
           married and start a family right?  single family house is the
           best choice, townhouses next, and condos last.
        \_ nice condo for $400K. you must be looking in nice neighborhoods
           \_ ummm, no.  a nice condo in a nice part of sf will run you $600K+.
              $400K will get you an ok condo in medium to low priced areas
              in the city.  take it from someone who just sold a 2bdrm condo
              in the city for almost double that.
              \_ SJ == SF??
        \_ a new 3 bdrm condo in Sunnyvale was $600,000 in 2000. That's why
           I left the fuckin' Silicon Valley. The bubble's gonna burst soon.
           \_ And what happens then? Prices drop by *GASP* maybe 10%. Housing
              prices are not options. Face it. Most of us (us meaning folks
              who do not make >$80) will never be able to afford better than
              renting here in the Bay Area for the next twenty frickin' years.
              \_ Not that I think that will happen but prices can fall by
                 30% or 50% sometimes (Japan, Singapore, Hongkong, etc.)
                 after a bubble.
2002/6/23-24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25172 Activity:moderate
6/22    Have housing prices come down in the past few months? I'm a potential
        condo/house owner.
        \_ no.
        \_ Prices have come down for over-$700K homes, most definitely. But
           for condos, expect prices to be about the same; but you should
           have less competition in the market. A townhome across the street
           from mine was in the mkt for 2+ months before being sold for $20K
           less than asking price. (this is in inner East Bay) Depending on
           where you are, I think things are getting slightly better, although
           my advice to you is probably to buy in the Fall after the dust
           settles and kids are going back to school (think parents, school
           district, etc.) Hope this helps!
           \_ one thing to keep in mind is that there is less supply, usually,
              in the fall, and prices might continue to rise by then as well,
              if this market continues to sizzle.
           \_ Do not gamble.  Find the house you like most with-in your price
              range and buy it now.  If the OP gambles and loses they'll be
              really fucked later.  If they gamble and win, they might save a
              few bucks or get a slightly nicer house but there isn't going to
              be any dramatic upward *or* downward pricing in only a few
              months.  Forget housing prices.  The real cost is in interest
              expenses which are *much* more likely to rise by Fall rather
              than decline any further.  They're already rock bottom low.  You
              may not see rates like this again for the rest of your life.
                --Happy homeowner who no-cost refied from 30yr/7.8 to 15yr/6.3
2002/6/15-16 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25103 Activity:very high
6/14  They say that condos do not have a good resell value compared to
      single family house. Is this really true?  -potential buyer
        \_ For crebbs: you're making a few mistakes in your SFH vs condo
           analysis. 1) SF is not a normal market situation.  Any place where
           there's too many people and not enough housing of any sort combined
           with draconian rental laws like SF has which limit rental stock is
           going to drive up all housing prices.  2) time counts.  no one cares
           that you can buy a condo today and make $5k selling a month later.
           What you can't do is make a profit on your condo over the long haul.
           At the end of a 30 year mortgage, the mortgage rate is next to
           nothing compared to ever increasing income levels.  At the end of a
           30 year stay in a condo, the condo is going to have ever increasing
           dues, maintenance that the condo board has put off for years
           resulting in *huge* emergency bills sent to everyone that you're
           legally required to pay no matter high the bill.  And a "condo
           neighborhood" never improves over time.  It's a glorified apartment
           complex.  A SFH community grows over time, has a real community,
           and becomes the kind of place people really like to live in.  Thus,
           I can buy a house today and sell it in 30, 50, or 90 years and it'll
           make me a fortune but the condo is a break-even buy at best.  Go
           look at real world prices outside articifially constricted areas
           like SF, compare prices, then come back to the motd with your
           theories.  In the mean time the smart folks on the motd are all out
           buying the nicest, biggest, best house they can afford in the nicest
           places they can afford.  This isn't a fluke.  This isn't because
           motd folks are stupid (intentionally obnoxious maybe but that's
           another story).  Anyway, go get some real data and prove the
           conventional wisdom wrong.  Later.  I gotta go mow the lawn....
           \_ Here is Condo vs. Home appreciation for Chicago. Anyplace
              where land is scarce is going to show similar data, not
              just SF:
              The difference is even more marked over the last ten years.
      \_ admittedly, thus guy got *really* lucky, but i know a guy
         who bought a condo on forclosure for something in the 30-40k
         range.  just as he was moving in, someone offered to buy it for about
         60k.  he sold it on the spot and bought a real house, using the
         profit as down.  basically, the buyer wanted a block of
         condos, and already owned the adjacent one.  like i said, though
         he was really damn lucky. not all luck, though, since he somehow
         got the real house in forclosure for a great price also.
         i think part of the secret is not to trust those fucking
         realtor snakes.  when they say they're working for you,
         they are *lying*.
      \_ Generally, yes.
          \_ Hogwash.  Real estate agents often say this.  However, real
              estate agents usually have the intelligence of a poorly
              trained poodle.  Just think about it.  If it were true and
              had been for the last 20 years, you should be able to get
              one hell of a deal on a condo, but guess what, you can't.
              (unless condos used to sell at one hell of a premium) -crebbs
              \_ Dear Condo Owner, I don't care what REA's say.  I don't talk
                 to them or know any.  The ones I did meet while shopping for
                \_ Home Owner, you are wrong in too many ways to count, most
                   importantly, in the notion that homes always appreciate
                   more than condos:
                 property were either evil or stupid.  I say this based on
                 real world data.  Go back and compare housing prices over the
                 years vs. condo prices.  A house is a *much* better buy in a
                 'normal' real estate market.  In a place like San Francisco
                 where local housing laws have artificially reduced the supply
                 of housing, *everything* will go up no matter how utterly
                 shitty, slummy, and unlivable for a normal human being.  SF
                 and other shitholes are the exception to the "Generally"
                 statement above.  Over time housing prices will *always*
                 rise *anywhere* in the country.  The same is not at all true
                 for condos.  -Home Owner
                 \_ Home Owner, you are wrong in too many ways to count, most
                    importantly, in the notion that homes always appreciate
                    more than condos:
                    \_ Your link is crap.  It only goes back to 96 and only
                       talks in depth about the last TWO years.  Try again.
                       \_ No, you don't know what you are talking about.
                          Most places in America suffer from a land
                          shortage and have been experiencing Urban infill
                          for the last decade or so, causing condos to
                          to outpace home appreciation. You can bet against
                          this trend if you want, but your notion that land
                          is always cheap and people will always be willing
                          to travel long distances to afford a single family
                          home is increasingly outdated.
                 \_ 1st.) i don't own a condo and never have, so you are
                     wrong twice.
                     2nd) I am not going to spend the time explaining how
                     incredibly lame your "Over time" argument is.
                     3rd) I didn't say anything about "better buy."  as that
                     can be interpreted many ways.  (you have a knack for
                     making meaningless statements). I am referring to the
                     original poster's point about resell values.  And
                     No one here has explained how it is that condo's could,
                     for the history of their existence, been getting smaller
                     percentage gains in price over time and YET, if you go
                     looking for a condo, pretty much anywhere, it costs
                     about what you would expect a condo of that size to cost
                     relative to a house. Certainly very similar to the
                     differential 10 years ago.
                     finally.)  I could be wrong if e.g., increase in
                     homeowners dues had a tendency to outpace other
                     increases.  It also may be true for SOME condominiums in
                     deteriorating complexes but there are also SFR areas
                     that deteriorate, you just have to pick a good complex
              \- i had a coversation about this kind of "rational expectations"
                 analysis of stuff like "condos=bad", pricing differentials
                 of good schol district [investment component + consumption
                 component], etc with a real estate person sitting next to
                 me on a plane. she convinced me there were certain "sticky"
                 and dynamic issues that made the simplistic analysis
                 flawed. for example if you factor in the market's ability
                 to change the quantity of condos onthe mkt either by new
                 building or apt conversation, it becomes plausible that there
                 is some "pressure" against them. ok tnx. --psb
                 \_ this assumes a purely segmented market.  This is not
                    the case.  It seems like a good argument that it is easier
                    to make condo's than houses in an appreciating market,
                    so there would be less inflationary pressure on them. But
                    at the margins (which is where it matters) there are
                    plenty of home-seekers that would buy a condo if the
                    price was right. (admittedly there are many who wouldn't)
                    In appreciating markets, condo's become more attractive
                    as houses move out of reach of some buyers.  As is always
                    the case with this sort of thing, it is almost impossible
                    to state what the final effect is going to be.  You can,
                    though, say, as i have thrice now:  "look if condos
                    always gained less than houses, they would be REALLY
                    cheap RIGHT NOW (they having been around for some time)
                    and they are not." -crebbs
                    \_ idiot.
                 \_ and that argument also falls apart for places like SF
                    where it is hard to just build condos, and equally hard
                    to do apt->condo conversions.
                    \_ You miss the part above where someone talks very
                       specifically about SF and other artificial markets?
            \_ No, SFH generally have better appreciation and hold
                 their value better (based on past history of the market).
            \_ Also keep in mind that if a certain ratio of condo's become
                rented in a complex, that potential buyers will not be able
                to get financing.
                 \_ Please explain and(/or) point me to a url.  I haven't
                    heard this.
                    \_ I dont know a specific url, but this was mentioned in
                    the chronical financial advice section about 2 weeks ago.
                    The gist was that in a condo/homeowners complex, where
                    there are too many absentee owners (landlords renting
                    out places) they wind up controlling the homeowners
                    association (as the HOA runs on one vote per PROPERTY,
                    not per occupant/owner), screwing up resale values in the
                    community and making financial institutions reluctant to
                    finance properties in the community. -ERic
                    \_ also, renter's tend not to take care of the condo's
                        as well as owner's, e.g. they can become run down.
2002/6/14 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:25100 Activity:nil
6/13    Say you're going to rent your house. Where do I get a "middle-man"
        who will fix stuff and deal with legal issues? How do I get such
        info? Thanks.
        \_ Legal issues? What do you mean legal issues? As for maintaining
           the property, you want to hire a property management company. --dim
           \_ property management companies are scum.  this will make you
              a slum lord, and if you post your address, i'll be glad
              to burn your fucking lawn as a public service.  do not listen
              to this jackass unless you want to be a jackass too.
                \_ say they don't pay rent (and you get screwed cuz your
                   mortgage depends on it) and lets say they're not leaving
                   unless you evict them... or they sue you for bad wiring
                   that shocked their cats or something. You know the ususal.
                   \_ Well duh, isn't it obvious from the above post?  All
                      people who rent out their property are scum.  All people
                      who rent from them are victims and God's Chosen angels.
                      There are no owners who aren't evil and there are no
                      renters who would ever even think of doing something
                      less than kind because it isn't in their nature.  If
                      the renter does something the landlord doesn't like,
                      they must've deserved it and more.  Power to the people!
                      (Note: this was 100% sarcasm for the impaired among us)
                      \_ landlord, property owner != property management
                         company, moron.  there are lots of great landlords
                         out there, just not property management companies.
                         why don't you try reading a post before you reply?
                         or just fuckoff.
                         \_ WTF?!  A Traitor To The Cause posting on the motd!
                            *ALL* landowners are villainous!  They just use
                            these white thug hiring "property management"
                            companies to hide behind so FOOLS LIKE YOU will
                            STUPIDLY make a distinction between OWNER and
                            MANAGER.  You think the owner doesn't know what's
                            going on?  FUCK!  The vicious evil white owner
                            *HIRED* the manager to fuck you and all renters on
                            a daily basis!  You've been taken in!  There are
                            *NO* great landlords.  The only good landlord aka
                            slumlord is a dead one.  We need to take all the
                            extra property they're not using and give it back
                            to the people!  Vive La Revolution!
                            \_ post your address, you fucking pussy, and i'll
                               burn your lawn.
2002/5/17-18 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:24869 Activity:nil
5/17    I bought a house ~3 yrs ago.  I just found out there is asbestos
        tape inside my furnace.  Neithe the seller nor the property
        inspector disclosed it to me.  Can I hold them financally
        responsible for taking it out by any chance?
        \_ your old house in Santa Clara is shit. Sell it and install linux
        \_ Are you sure they didn't disclose it in some tiny little embedded
           fine prints on the back of page 247 or so?
        \_ They don't have to disclose everything, only things which they
           should know about.  And asbestos isn't inherently a problem,
           any more than lead-based paint is.  I doubt you can sue and win.
           But of course, you should ask a lawyer if you want legal advice.
2002/5/14-15 [Science/Space, Reference/RealEstate] UID:24831 Activity:insanely high
5/14    Anybody have a backyard pool?  I don't use it often enough and it's
        a major expense.  I'm considering making it non-functional for 1
        year or more.  Draining the water and stopping the pumps, etc.  This
        procedure have to be reversible though.  When I sell my house a few
        years down the road I want to start it up again.  Is that even
        Thanks.  -frustrated pool owner
        \_ sell your house. install linux. Seriously though, houses are a
           pain in the ass. Do you spend your vacation at Home Depot? HAHAHA
                        -former bitter house owner (BHO)
           \_ ride bike
        \_ The short answer is yes.  What kind of a pool is it?  If it is a
           concrete pool then this is easy.  If it is a rubber lined pool you
           have to be worried about the lining coming loose and it may be hard
           to put back in and get wrinkles.  (you can always pay someone to
        \_ I only have a hot tub but no pool.  Draining it wastes all the
           reinstall your liner if you have this issue, though it isn't that
           hard.) Also, with a rubber lined pool without water you probably
           want to keep it covered when it is dry. I don't know anything about
           above the ground pools, but i'm sure they're easy too. -crebbs
           \_ it's a concrete in-ground pool.  Do I need to take any special
              precautions on the skimmer or the various pumps?  Draining the
              pool and shutting the machines off is easy.  But I'm worried
              about starting the thing up again.  I definitely want the pool
              to be usable in 2 or more years.  Thanks.
              \_ obviously you don't skateboard, or you'd know what to do
                 with it.  you'd better take precautions to keep skaters
                 away after you drain it if it has a decent transition,
                 or people will sneak in to skate it.
                 \_ Now, some of you might think the above reply is joke,
                    but my boss had the same thing. Teenagers snuck into
                    his backyard and were using his drained-pool. My boss
                    had it filled with cement(they were just finishing up
                    when I visited, so he told me his story then). My co-
                    worker says actually it's a cover for his burying a
                    a dead body in it and normally you'd think that was a joke
                    but not if you knew my boss, you might not think so.
                    \_ i wasn't joking. if i knew where this guy's house
                       was, i'd skate it myself.
        \_ I only have a jacuzzi but no pool.  Draining it wastes all the
           water (unless you can re-use the water to irrigate your lawn or a
           nearby park, for example.)  Re-filling with tap water also costs
           you $2.18 per 1000 galloon in Alameda county.  Just two more things
           to consider.
           \_ yum. super-chlorinated water on your lawn?
2002/4/22-23 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:24535 Activity:very high
4/22    How many of you were dotcom paper millionaires a couple of years ago?
        And what company was it?  Curious.
        \_ We were too big and too proud, and the hubris got us.
        \_ Does paper millionaires count vested options or exercised-and-held
                \_ shut the fuck up you banal fucks
                   \_ Bitter?
        \_ I was.  And our company was featured on <DEAD><DEAD>
           \_ And how much of it were did you end up with?
              \_ Less than a thousand.  It will almost cost me more
                 to unlock and sell the shares than what it's worth.
         \_ The Onion blew it with this one.  Home buying isn't about being
            a suburban dork.  It's about economic freedom and maturity.  Kids
            rent, adults buy.  Why make someone else rich?  Why die poor?
            \_ the lame part is when it talks about how you have a 30-year
               committment to the mortgage.  Unless the renters think they
               won't be paying rent 30 years from now...  -tom
               \_ That's just one of many lame parts.  It's endless.
         \_ My rent is 1/3rd what a house would run, and I share a 3 bed
            place in a nice part of SF (with one other).  Renting is for
            those who don't want to commit to the area for 5 years.
            \_ In 5 years your new rent will be higher than my mortgage.  You
               think about that one for a few minutes.  My grandmother's
               mortgage was $156/month on her $300k home when she passed.  If
               she had been renting all that time her rent would've been about
               $1750 for the same place/location/house/etc. and eating cat
               food without family help.  Also your rent is 2/3rds not 1/3rd
               because you're *sharing* with 1 other person.  I could rent out
               half my house and share if I wanted to cut my mortgage expenses
               down.  Compare like with like.
        \_ Cool, so people who take the Onion's attitude will leave
                more houses for the rest of us intelligent people...
                - new homeowner
           \_ Nonono, as a new home owner you *want* lots and lots and lots of
              housing competition now that *you* made it.  You are now in
              control of your destiny.  You can either upgrade in the same area
              later when you have more money when the local market is low or
              you can sell when the local market is high and move to another
              area where housing is low and cash in mega bucks.  Renting is for
              suckers and short termers and kids.  Buy, buy, buy!
           \_ You're a bunch of overpaid spoiled fucks, aren't you. Of COURSE
              owning is preferable to renting! What else are you going to do
              until you've got the frickin' cash? What housing market do you
              think we're in? Pittsburgh, PA?
2002/4/8-9 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:24376 Activity:nil
4/9     Unfortunately my apartment won't allow the bed...
2002/4/4-5 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:24326 Activity:kinda low
4/3     My former landlord just bitched me out on the phone saying
        something about too much of my old mail going to her address.
        (My apartment was in her backyard.) Now I'm pissed off...
        Is there some easy way to flood her with loads of junk mail?
        \_ call the church of scientology and tell them you want to
           sign a "friend" up.  just don't ever ever ever give them
           post office.
           your address. they will send a mailing or so per week
           until she tells them to stop, then they up it to one per day.
        \_ You should be more responsible and forward your mail to your new
           address.  For starters, file a change of address form with the
           post office.  Then you can file with the
           Direct Marketing Association ( to stop most
           of your junk mail at your old address.
           \_ Don't file that form! The number one way to show up on junk
              mailers' lists is change-of-address forms. If you really want to
              reduce the volume, foregoe that form and take care of forwarding
              case-by-case. The DMA suggestion is good, but will only stop
              mail from member-junk mailers (=~ 75% from personal experience).
              For more info check out
               -- ulysses
              \_ I e-mailed the USPS last year to ask them to remove my address
                 from any mailing lists they sell, but the reply said the USPS
                 doesn't sell any mailing lists.  So how do the new addresses
                 on the change-of-address form go to the junk mailers?
        \_ Why don't you just ignore her?  You obviously don't care about the
           \_ I don't care about the old mail at all... but I think she
              is a total bitch and I think it would be funny and probably
              really piss her off if I could get a bunch more junk mail
              going to her house. I guess I'm a vengeful person.
              \_ get some credit card numbers from the trash at a gas
                 station where the reciepts contain numbers(there are
                 lots of these) and order from a payphone tons of stuff
                 to her place.  the credit card owner will not be charged
                 when they see that 100 dildos have been sent to some random
                 address, but she will be investigated for fraud.
              \_ I suggest prozac, meditation, maturity and letting it go.
                 I don't see what you think you have to seek revenge for,
                 anyway.  Growing up would make your life happier.
              \_ Fill a paper bag full of dog poop, put it on her
                 door step, light it on fire, then ring the doorbell
                 and hide somewhere (where you can watch the fun). I
                 did this once when I was in Junior High School and it
                 was real funny. You are still in Junior High School, right?
2002/3/27-28 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:24251 Activity:kinda low
3/27    Anyone have any information on apartment sublets in Paris?
        I'm going there from may 6 - june 6 and am looking for a place
        to stay.  thanks!                                       -sax
        \_ depends on your budget. Google and
                are your friends
        \_ would you want to stay in a hostel?
2002/2/22-23 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:23954 Activity:high
2/22    Why do alarm companies install the home alarm panels at visible places
        in your house?  Someone can just break in to your house and use a
        hammer to smash the panel within the 45-second delay, and nothing will
        beep or call the police, right?  I'm thinking if it's worthwile to
        install one.  Thanks.
        \_ Because when the panel goes out the alarm company knows?  Or maybe
           you've discovered The Secret Method no one else has ever considered.
        \_ the keypanel and the alarm box are two different things. You'll set
            off the alarm in the box if you smask the panel.  The alarm box is
            generally hidden on the premesis.  Interestingly, the alarm cannot
            call the police if you have the presence of mind to first cut the
            house's phone lines (at the MPO, usually outside where bell techs
                                        \_ MPoE: Minimum Point of Entry
            can get to it).
            \_ in some cases, there's a wireless transmitter installed by
               alarm company to monitor any intrusion or for system
                  phone line is cut. I'm sure it's something like a pinger
                  that check to see that the alarm is alive and happy. --dim
               \_ Many have an option to automatically "call" if the phone
                  line is cut. I'm sure it's something like a pinger that
                  checks to see that the alarm is alive and happy. --dim
2002/2/22 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:23947 Activity:very high
2/21    Since I started the thread awhile ago, I felt I should post some info.
        There's a misconception in real estate that the seller pays the 6%.
        Take a house, for sale by owner, for example.  The Seller with an
        agent can sell a house for 400k, and give 24k to the two agents,
        pocketing 276k before closing costs.  A for sale by owner can sell
        for 280k, make 4k more than if he were to sell thru an agent, and
        the buyer also saves 20k.  Where does the 6% come from?  The selling
        price.  Who pays the selling price?  The Buyer. The 6% is a markup
        for agents paid by the buyer.  In actuality, it does come closer to
        3%, since sellers will insist on splitting commissions.  Of course,
        in hot housing markets, throw this out the window.  -nivra
        \_ You meant a $300k house not $400k, right?
        \_ [motd mathd was here]
        \_ That's because the seller is paying the 6%. All houses are
           priced with that 6% in mind. The reality with FSBO is that
           buyers and sellers split the savings, but it's much harder to
           sell the house. The seller is benefitting from the service more
           than the buyer. Also, someone must pay for the buyer's agent if
           there is one. All that really matters is the net. Is that what
           you are saying in a roundabout way? If so, duh. --dim
           \_ the agent is of no use to the buyer whatsoever unless they are
              clueless.  to buy a house you need a lawyer, and that's it.
              this is in direct contradiction to certain advice given
              by loudmouth idiots on the motd.
              \_ *Which* agent? A buyer's agent certainly is useful. An
                 attorney, while beneficial, is not required either in
                 California. Do you have a point? --dim
              \_ Who is going to show you houses without a buyer's agent?
                 The online/public MLS doesn't show addresses and if I was
                 selling my house and a non-agent random fuck called or showed
                 at my door, they're *not* getting a tour.  And there's no one
                 to even let you in if the house is vacant.  You're a fool.
                 You're not getting a discount off the house without an agent.
                 With 2 agents, they split the fee, with 1 agent they take the
                 whole fee.
                 \_ FWIW, the only friends I know to buy a house for <$400 in
                    Berkeley in the past two years found the house on their own
                    while riding around on their bikes and did all the
                    preliminary talking directly to the seller.  Their agent
                    (i.e., the buyer's agent) only helped them shuffle the
                    papers for the sale, though that was non-trivial.
                    \_ I'm having a hard time replying to this.  I'm honestly
                       not sure why you're telling us this.  What does this
                       have to do with anything?
                 \_ IIRC, a lot of the time, a single-agent (who's
                    acting as both buying and selling agent) deal
                    will only net the agent 4.5%; there are sticky legal
                    ramifications of being both, though...
                    \_ If you're the buyer and they have an agent, then the
                       seller's agent also becomes the buyer's agent.  You are
                       going to get screwed.  Beware when they ask to get your
                       OK to run an approval on you, then they know exactly
                       how much they can soak you for.  There's nothing
                       anywhere that I've ever heard of that says 4.5% for a
                       single agent.
                \_ Y'all realize that if the agent works for a brokerage
                house (ie: coldwell) then they split some of their 3% with
                the broker. So a buyer or seller's agent may get as little
                as 1.5% on the transaction.
                \_ Sure sure but that wasn't the point.  The idea was how much
                   it costs the buyer/seller to have an agent, not the final
                   destination for that fee.
2002/2/21 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:23931 Activity:high
2/20    Do builders like Shapell or Kaufman & Broad deal with individuals or
        just real estate developers?   Anybody know?  I want a standard
        house (not custom) built on a plot of land.
        \_ Why?  The cost of construction would probably dwarf the cost of
           design?  Why not just go custom?
2002/2/5-6 [Reference/RealEstate, Computer/SW/OS/Windows, Industry/Startup] UID:23783 Activity:insanely high
2/5     I'm a sysadmin. Made a house-call to fix CEO's wife's computer.
        She already did a great job of troubleshooting so there wasnt
        much for me to do. Instead I came up with a simple alternative
        that worked. She was very thankful and now sent me a Fry's gift
        certificate for a couple hundred dollars.  Is this too much money?
        What should I do? Just send a thank-you card? Or decline it and say
        I was just happy to help and was just "doing my job"?
        If kept, I will spend it on something my colleagues will also enjoy.
        Please give any advice, motd.
        \_ Thank you card.  It's annoying to have your gestures of thanks
           \_ thanks for helping confirm this for me.
        \_ Is your CEO using company resource for personal need?
           \_ she's a big part of his continued success. if he does well,
              the company does well and so does my job and stock do well.
              Anyways, I had to go out there to check on other things.
        \_ Return the gift and ask for sex instead.
           \_ Only if she's hot.  Is she?
              \_ She's hella hot. No sex.
        \_ I'd send her a thank you card, use the money to buy something,
           and not talk about it to others.  You might want to mention it
           \_ Seconded.
           to your CEO, depending on what kind of guy he is.
           \- thisisthecorrect advice. this probably isntthat much for a
           ceo and family.
        \_ Split the gift money into two halves. Buy yourself something nice
           with one half and a gift for your CEO with the other half..
           \_ That is just weird.
        \_ Nice!  I can see it now.  "Dear PCWorld forum...."
        \_ Buy her a nice sex toy as a thank you.
           \_ With a Fry's gift certificate?
              \_ One of those vibrating joysticks?
        \_ It is *not* part of your job to do house calls.  I've done house
           calls because it was clear that if I didn't I'd be looking for a
           new job.  Unless it says so in your contract, house calls aren't
           included.  Think I'm being a dick?  Who is liable if you get
           injured?  Slip on their floor?  Get in an auto accident?  The
           insurance company won't cover you for worker's comp. You're fucked.
           Take the gift, send a nice thank you to her and don't tell anyone
           else about it.  Don't do it again if at all possible.  The 'gift'
           is not a gift. It is payment for your work as a consultant.  Don't
           do any weird shit like splitting it and buying a gift for them or
           mentioning it to the CEO or anything else.  You're nice but very
           \_ You bring up some good points I did not think about. I think it
              is part of my job even though it's not written down anywhere
              I set up their computer systems at this home. I also helped
              with their home down south (flew on a jet).
              \_ So they paid you extra/bonus/OT/whatevr for being their
                 personal compupet setting up their computers and home networks
                 all over the country?  This isn't your job.  You're being
                 taken advantage of.  Let's compare.  I'm the admin at an
                 online place in the Bay Area.  I work less than 8 hours a day,
                 I don't visit homes, I don't do windows, I don't fill out
                 time sheets, I don't kiss anyone's ass, but I do report to
                 stupid people (can't have it all) and I make a lot more than
                 $100k.  The parent company is 50+ years old, stable, private
                 and will never IPO but I'll have this job as long as I can
                 stand it.  Which job would you rather have?
2002/2/5 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:23778 Activity:high
2/4     Rent Ceiling Database, maintained by Berkeley Rent Stabilization
        Board.  Allows you to see the rent ceilings on all apartments in
        \_ Communists.
           \_ Privileged rich fascist.  You sit here enjoying your free
              CSUA email account while you hope to steal money from
              students, poor and disabled folks and keep people homeless!
           \_ Publishing this information is a GOOD thing.  In fact,
              having this data public will make it easier to remove
              all rent control since tenants will no longer be at a
              disadvantage because they lack information about the market.
              The big question is, does this help or hinder landlord collusion?
        \_ Hmm, so my neighbor whose moaning I used to listen to thru her
           door while her bf did her is paying $950/mo, if that's still her
           living there.
           \_ This excites me.
        \_ So what does it mean if I'm paying more than the amount listed
           here for my apartment?  Can I get my rent reduced or something?
2002/1/30 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:23720 Activity:high
1/30    Anyone here buy their own house without an agent?  Looking for good
        sources of info. websites, books, etc. -nivra
        \_ what a coincidence! I was gong to post almost esxactly the
           same question today.  I talked to a realtor, and it became quicly
           clear that he was interested in helping himself and not me.
           in my area, has lots of really great listings, but
           i have not figured out to what extent one can avoid hiring your
           own sheister bastard realtor.
           \_ I'd probably recommend against it for a first house; the
              process is pretty complex and unless you know the ins and outs
              you'll probably wind up costing yourself more money.  And
              some seller's agents will refuse to work with you if you don't
              have an agent.  -tom
              \_ This is all true, plus you won't even see the listings for a
                 lot of houses or won't know about an open house.  You also
                 don't look like a serious buyer to the seller even if their
                 agent is willing to talk to you.  Don't be cheap but don't
                 feel you're required to use the first agent you meet.  Shop
                 around and go with someone you like.  I've met some *really*
                 sleazy agents before.  Also don't let them push you into more
                 house than you feel you can afford.  Good luck!
           \_ I strongly recommend against it, unless you are experienced.
              Yes you can keep the 3% commission to yourself when you don't
              have an agent, but the risk of something going wrong is too high.
              The whole process is pretty complicated, and I still don't
              understand it even though I had a good agent explaining it.  I
              think you should concentrate your effort on finding a good agent
              than on trying to learn about the process.
              than on trying to learn about the process.  -- yuen
              \_ Actually, the seller is going to pay the 6% anyway. If
                 you don't have an agent then all the better for his
                 agent. As a buyer, you don't save anything. The part
                 about not getting listings or seeing caravan sheets is
                 bullshit, though. In my area both the MLS and the
                 twice-weekly caravan info are online for free. I usually
                 had a heads-up on my realtor. It was still useful to have
                 a realtor for legwork and phone tag, though. --dim
                 \_ If you knew the listings better than your agent then hey,
                    big hint, your agent sucked.  They have up to the minute
                    pays only 97% of the selling price.
                    listings on their workstation.  Your agent is getting paid
                    to do more than just play phone tag for you.  You should've
                    found another agent who knew wtf they were doing.
                 \_ Really?  I know the seller still pay 6% anyway, but I
                    thought the buyer and the selling agent get 3% each if
                    there's no buying agent which means the buyer effectively
                    pays only 97% of the selling price.  -- yuen
                    \_ No. What happens in that case is that the seller's
                       agent is considered to be a dual-agent and pockets
                       the entire fee. They like that. I was in that
                       situation when I made an offer on a house I found
                       before I had an agent. That one didn't close
                       (thankfully) and I later got my own agent. --dim
        \_ I'm absolutely clueless wrt agents. What makes a "good" agent, or
           what are the signs of a bad one?
                \_ our agent was very good.  I'd say the qualities that made
                   her good were that she was very understanding of our general
                   anxiety about the process, and did a lot of explaining
                   about what was going on at each point.  She actually
                   discouraged us from buying a house out of our price range.
                   She also knew the area very well and had good contacts
                   with mortgage brokers, house inspectors and building
                   engingeers (we needed an estimate on foundation work).
                   I think the biggest warning sign for me would be an agent
                   who pressures you to make a decision, or to buy a
                   particular house (especially an expensive one).  -tom
                   \_ Another good sign can be that the agent is being frank.
                      My agent covers South Bay and southern half of East Bay.
                      when I asked him to also show us some houses in Alameda,
                      he said although he can find us listings and handles the
                      whole process for us with no problem, he won't be able to
                      tell us whether a certain price is good or not
                      since he's not familiar with that area.  So he doesn't
                      recommend himself for that area.  Another good sign was
                      that he told me to bid down on a particular house two
                      years ago when every other house was being bid up.
                      -- yuen
        \_ It is possible to avoid the 6% by buying a house for sale
           by owner directly from the owner. There aren't many of these
           on the market though. seems
           to have the most. -ausman
2002/1/23-24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:23641 Activity:high
1/23    Battle of the Monoploistic Giants, AOL vs M$FT:
        \_ Hemlock or arsenic?  Damn.. I can't decide!
2001/12/22-24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:23341 Activity:high
12/21   I'm thinking about installing an alarm system at my home.  The
        telephone wiring box at my house is at a very visible position facing
        the street.  If someone cuts the telephone wire to my house before
        breaking in, what good is the alarm system now that it can't call the
        police station or the moniter center?  Thx.
        \_ Not sure, I'd have to take a look to check out the situation. Where
           do you live again?
        \_ There is no point to a monitored service. Response times are
           too slow to be of any use. --dim
           \_ I disagree.  A monitored alarm is a nice complement to a safe.
              Ideally the safe should be on a separate zone from the rest of
              the house, but even if it's not, a slow response time is still
              fast enough to prevent a burglar from getting into your safe.
              Perhaps you don't need a safe, but I do.
              \_ Why not get a safe deposit box at that point? If I'm
                 a thief I take the safe and open it later. But I'm sure
                 your safe is actually a vault... --dim
                 \_ You're not going to take a safe with you before the
                    company monitoring the alarm gets there, especially if
                    it's properly installed (bolted to the foundation with no
                    side or rear access without going through a wall).
                    Even without proper installation, it'll take a thief
                    some time to maneuver a couple thousand pounds of steel
                    out of the house.  A safety deposit box is suitable for
                    a subset of my needs; the safe is suitable for others.
        \_ Wouldn't the cut phone lines signal the alarm company?
           \_ Yes.  We have an alarm and that's how it works.  I have no idea
              why some people think response time is "too slow".  Too slow for
              what?  The last time my alarm went off 3 cop cars were here in
              under 5 minutes while my alarm was deafeningly loud.  I don't
              care if someone does a smash n grab.  The alarm is for personal
              safety and to deter some Night Stalker type person from hanging
              out for a few days torturing us while no one outside knows.
              Some random thug *might* get away with my TV.  He won't have
              enough time to hang out doing anything else.
2001/9/24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:22609 Activity:nil
9/23    so, you can take money out of roth ira to buy a house.  does that
        house have to be in the US?
        \_ yes
2001/9/6 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:22327 Activity:nil
9/5     Does anyone know where one can find rent control laws and ordinances
        of Santa Clara.  I remember a new law that went into effect beginning
        of this year saying that rent increases greater than 10% requires at
        least a two month advance notice.  -phlo
        \_ I can't believe a cal alum can't even use google or da yellow pages
           or city hall or the mayor's office to figure out something
           as Berkeley as Rent Control.
        \_ Try HUD.  -- yuen
2001/8/17-19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:22155 Activity:moderate
8/17    Anybody looking to buy a house?  Do you care to comment on the housing
        market in the bay area now?  I heard things have cooled down a lot
        since early 2000.  Thanks.
        \_ From what I see, prices just aren't growing as fast as they were,
           but they're still increasing. Compare average/median prices year
           over year...I saw this in the paper and they still increased,
           but expensive houses increased much less (and averages being what
           they are, some of those will have decreased).
        \_ Ditto. It's not that the prices are going DOWN, it's just the
           price increase that's slowing. My agent said condos/townhouses are
           most likely to close under asking price, but then someone else might
           argue that condos/townhouses' resale value isn't as hot as that of
           single family residence (i.e. house). Approach with caution, wait
           out the market until after this summer. Inventory seems to be more
           abundant so far. - jthoms (also looking for a hse)
        \_ Prices are certainly declining in many regions.  With interest rates
           where they are, it's a good time to be a cautious buyer.  Find the
           home you really want.  If you have to compromise, wait.
        \_ In Southern California, inventories are very, very low. I think
           a lot of people (buyers and sellers) are waiting. What they are
           waiting for I have no idea. --dim
        \_ Houses are sitting on the market much longer. I think it is
           only a matter of time before prices start to go down.
        \_ it's called denial. virtually every single buyer is into denial.
           wait a few months and prices will start crashing down. it is just
           like the real estate of the 80s
2001/8/14 [Finance/Banking, Reference/RealEstate] UID:22115 Activity:nil
8/14    How do I retrieve an article that appeared under the "Today on MSN"
        section in just half an hour ago but is now gone?  Thx.
        \_ what link are you looking for?  ford recall, pcs passe, 6 new car
           reviews, gap school uniforms, etc. -uctt
           \_ The one about home prices and refinancing and growing equity
                   \_ Thanks a lot!  I read it half way thru and then
                      accidentally closed my browser.  How did you find it?
2001/8/6-7 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:22021 Activity:high
8/6     I have two pair of copper phone wires going from point A to point B in
        my house.  Is it possible to create a functioning 10 base T connection
        with these wires?
        \_ Probably not.
                \_why not?
        \_ Yes, and I'm speaking from experience. 4 of the lines are used for
           shielding and you might get some signal degredation but nothing
           you'll notice running on a 10bT network (at least I didn't). -jeff
            \_ thanks.  It worked for me too.
        \_ I run 100bT over my extra copper in my house. --aaron
2001/7/25 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:21946 Activity:nil
7/25    I have a space in my unit to rent that works well for
        people who need a temporary location while looking for
        permanent housing. Contact me if interested. -ulysses
2001/5/25 [Finance/Banking, Reference/RealEstate] UID:21359 Activity:insanely high
5/25    Hey, is it worth wasting an extra $25/month in mortgage interest
        to have an extra $200/month in pocket money? (comparing 15 to 30) -nick
        \_ _In general_ if you can afford the 15 year, you're better off in
           the long run.  Talk to a loan person at a bank to go over specifics
           for your loan.
        \_ Most 30 year loans have pre-pay penalties. Banks prefer to have a
           \_ Not from what I've seen.  Certainly my 30 year loadn has no
              prepayment penalty.
           long income stream on paper, that they don't have to modify with
           prepayments. If you are able to pay it off in 15 years easily,
           go for it!
        \_ Some idiots posted below.
        \_ YMMV. Lots of people buy houses so that they have LESS spending
           money, because when you have lots of extra spending money, you
           can easily "blow" a lot of it... either the $500/mo Fry's habit,
           nice restaurants, nice whores, clothes, or whatever. If you can
           afford a house, you probably are doing somewhat ok, and can live
           without the extra $200. On the flipside, money is meant to be spent
           so what is the point in saving it all? Find your own balance.
           What's your lifestyle? What do you want it to be?
        \_ You mean 15 vs. 30 year mortgage?  You do realize how much more you'd
           pay on the 30 year, right?  If you can affort it, you'll accrue
           equity much faster with the 15 (because of compound interest, equtity
           growth is _not_ linear).
           \_ Non-sense.  You don't know any better.  The fastest way
              to build equity is to have a 30-year-loan (hence lower
              monthly payment) but pay the same amount each month
              month as you would with a 15-year-loan (hence you pay down
              more principle each month).
              \_ How is this different from getting a real 15-year loan with
                 the same interest rate?  (Not to mention that 15-year loans
                 usually have lower interest rates than 30-year ones.)  -- yuen
                 \_ Exactly.  All that matters is the interest rate.
        \_ IANAFA (I am not a financial advisor). Depends on what you want
           to do with it. Can you live without it? If not, then go for 30,
           of course. If you can, then perhaps putting the $200 in something
           that will earn more than your mortgage interest rate will be a
           good investment. I would highly advise against just blowing the
           $200, but I'm very conservative financially.
           \_ In comparing interest, do remember that debt paid is debt
              paid whereas investment earnings still has to be taxed.
2001/4/20 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:21028 Activity:nil
4/19    What's the difference between "rate" and "APR" in a mortgage?
2001/4/17 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:21006 Activity:nil
4/16    is $500/month good rent for haste+ dana?  I can get this for 1 year.
        \_ Studio? 1 bdrm?  That's good for just about anywhere around here.
           If it's a room in a place with others, you may find better.
           \_ it is 4 bdr, 1 ba, $500/ea shared utils, cablemodem included
              \_ sounds like a good deal -- the 1bathroom is a big bummer, but
                 for $500, I could cope.
2001/4/7-8 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:20897 Activity:moderate
4/7     If I wanted to stop paying rent until they removed me (2 months?)
        is that something that would show up on my credit history. Or could
        I avoid any real consequences?
        \_ Yes, it could. It might even become a judgement if your
           landlord goes that far.
            \_  do judgements go on your credit report? Does an eviction
                go get reported as an eviction or what?
        \_ Apps usually ask if you've been evicted before.  They also have
           the condition that if you lied on your application, you can be
           evicted. ;-)
2001/3/18-19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:20836 Activity:high
3/17    Does anyone think the housing market will crash like the stock market?
        I heard housing prices are already down some 4%
        since beginning of the year.
        \_ No.  It's only going to get worse.  Look back at 1998's prices, the
           last time the housing market "crashed".  Prices now are way higher
           than before that so-called crash.  If you have some fantasies about
           buying some jobless dotcommer's house for a song, forget it.
        \_ 4% is peanuts.  They're still going up in my area.  The town houses
           are now up to where the low end houses were a year ago in my area.
        \_ In my area the housing prices are up. Last fall houses like mine
           (okay my parents) were going for ~ 750K - 900K, today my mom and I
           went walking and we saw several houses for sale with the prices
           ranging from 950K - 1.1M.
           I'm giving up my plan to move to Saratoga, San Jose is too expensive
           for me. Guess I'll have to start looking somewhere cheaper like
           Campbell or Freaqmont.
           I'm giving up my plan to move to Saratoga, as even San Jose is too
           expensive for me. Guess I'll have to start looking somewhere cheaper
           like Campbell or Freaqmont.
           \_ Fremont homes are about 630k-700k
                 \_ Uh no, homes in my uncle's neighborhood (Ardenwood) are
                    more like 350k to 450k. Still, I don't fancy living that
                    close to the riff-raff. Oh well, I guess I'll just have
                    to wait for my portfolio to recover.
                    \_ um. no, 600k for homes in aredenwood
                       \_ Well, the house two doors down from his is listed
                          for 425k. I just saw it today. Mind you he's near
                          880, Deep Creek and Paseo Padre and the houses in
                          his area are older ~ 15 yrs.
                          The nicer ones are about 600k, but I'm not
                          interested in paying 600k to live that close to
                    \_ but by then, everyone else's will recover too and
                       prices will go back up
                       \_ Well, its pay 400k for a house in freqmont now
                          or wait till my 400k becomes 1m and buy a house
                          then. In Saratoga, the prices for the houses I'm
                          looking at have hovered around 950k to 1.25m for
                          the last 5 years. Not many buyers on the high end.
                    \_ Ardenwood?  Ew.
              \_ I hear Modesto is still fairly cheap.
              \_ And Fremont is a pit, too.
                 \_ what's wrong with Fremont?
                 \_ is your head too big already?
        \_ anyone know a good contractor or architect?
           want to demolish a home, rebuild one w/ a basement
           \_ Are you in CA? If so, you probably can't get a permit to build
              a basement because of the earthquake zoning laws for residential
              \_ a number of new homes in the Bay Area have included basements.
                 besides, wouldn't it be okay with some sort of rolling
                 foundation (like in the Winchester House)?
              \_ my uncle did that with a new house after a teardown. Added
                 a whole other basement floor with office, big-screen movie
                 room, 2 bedrooms, pool-table and separate entrance
                 \_ which contractor did he use? can you email me- turin
              \_ actually houses w/ basements  are better to survive
                earthquakes because you have easy access to install steel
                support mounts on the main supports thus reinforcing them.
                \_ Well there are other problems with basements and earth-
                   quakes. I remember Prof. Chopra in CE explaining in some
                   class, something about standing waves or something. Wish
                   I had been paying attention. Oh well, it was almost 6 yrs
                   ago and I only took CE because of some stupid department
           \_ Going to pay 500k for a knock down and another 300 to build
              over it?
              \_ demo jobs are 20-40k and done in 2 days (demolition)
           \_ Just be prepared to wait 6-9 months for them to have time.
                \_ That's "to have to time to get started on it".
        \_ Depend on the price-range the house is in and location.
           I bet the most expensive homes will take a hit. More moderately
           priced homes, maybe not so much. Those in excellent school
           districts or easy know. I personally know of two
           recent sales, in Union City and San Jose, both got sold
           for slightly above asking price, but each only had two bids.
           But both i would consider sort of on the high-priced-end for
           this uncertain economic time. My aunt sold a Los Altos home
           about 1.25 year ago for an outrageous profit. The guy who bought
           it did some minor remodeling and 9 mos. later put it back on the
           market, asking $1,000,000 more than he bought it for. The
           house is still for-sale. Not sure if it even got any offers.
           \_ I have been house hunting in San Francisco for six months,
              and I can tell you that houses here have definitely gone
              down. About 10% for the 1M+ properties and a bit less for
              the "reasonable" 500M one bedroom condos. -ausman
              \_ 10% down for a million+ house isn't a big deal.  The numbers
                 on that end of the scale are semi-random anyway and much more
                 dependent on the details of that particular seller and
                 location than the market as a whole.  500k for a one bedroom
                 condo is insane even if it was 600k the week before.
2001/1/17 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:20344 Activity:kinda low
1/16    Luxury apartments for rent/lease in East Bay other than The Landing,
        1200 Lakeshore and Pacific Park Plaza? (Don't say Bridgecourt or
        Emery Bay)
2001/1/5 [Computer/Rants, Reference/RealEstate] UID:20238 Activity:very high
1/3     At what temperature do you set your heater?  After last month's $140
        PG&E bill, I lowered mine to 63 degrees and wear two sweatshirts around
        the house.
        \_ 78.  $200 bill.
        \_ 40
        \_ Wear a wool cap. You lose a lot of heat from your head.
           \_ spare us a lot of suffering, and just wear a bag over your head.
        \_ Somewhere in the 70's. Just pay the $200 bills, geek boy.
                \_ Issues of responsibility go beyond fiscal prudence.  -tom
        \_ buy fluorescent energy saving lightbulbs, they'll save u $$
        \_ just turn off your heater entirely, that's more efficient than
           leaving it slightly on.
           \_ Indeed.  My southern exposure apt is finally pleasant for once.
       \_ Who uses a heater?  Our apartment is heated by the four computers
           and various assorted other electronic devices.
       \_ 13 dollar electircity bill and a toasty warm apartment.  Love
          that central heating.
        \_ $36 for electricity plus gas.  Living in a house in Fremont,
           central gas heater turned off, even the pilot light.  Just wore a
           coat and closed all windows.
        \_ If you can move the water heater and the cloth dryer to inside the
           house or at least re-direct the exhause pipes to pass through the
           living space befoing going to the outside, the leaked heat should
           warm up the house somewhat.  But that's quite a bit of work to
           do and I didn't do it.  Plus you have to reverse it in summer.
           --- yuen
           \_ That's a really bright idea.  The walls will be nice and damp
              as an added bonus...
                 \- just have your utilities billed to your employer in
                 return for working from home. --psb
2000/12/21-23 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:20147 Activity:low
12/20   Anyone looking for a house in Berkeley?  Is it just me, or are there
        really really few houses on the market right now?  Why?  Is it just
        because of the holidays?
        \_ yah don't you know houses are the ultimate christmas present
        \_ Most folks won't move over the xmas holiday unless they have to.
        \_ I've heard from a couple realtors that basically no real estate
           activity occurrs around this time. (My company was in a space and
           needed to break our lease... the owner said we could either be out
           by Thanksgiving or pay until January 1st.)
        \_ Why would you want to own property in Berkeley anyway?
2000/12/19-20 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:20128 Activity:high
12/19   Has the housing price dipped lately?  I am considering buying a
        \_ suprisingly, it hasn't.  It has slowed down though.  When I
           bought my house in Jan I had to bid with 30 other people, now
           there's only 3-5 bids per house.  I'm even more suprised that my
           house has been appraised at 15% above what I paid.  Incredible
           given the stock market condition.
        \_ Older 2-bdrm townhouse in shittiest location (but in Sunnyvale):
           asking $340K, sold last month for $430K. And brand-new 2000 sq ft
           townhouses in Mt View, start $1million. Houses *may* slow more
           since now people may be forced to settle for a townhouse
           driving the prices of those up.
                \_ $1million? BS. URL?
                   \_ Shrug.  I'd believe it.  What I don't believe is that
                      housing price rises will slow because of town houses.
                      Not per se.  The town house 6 blocks over will never be
                      in the same price range as the houses in the area.  If
                      you're saying that people will simply give up on houses
                      and live in a townhouse, then that means building more
                      townhouses, fewer new houses and thus an increase in the
                      price of houses as they're even rarer than they were.  As
                      a homeowner, I'd be quite happy to see the end of new
                      housing starts all over the BA and just new townhouses
                      and zero lot liners instead.
                      \_ and higher density, more noise, more traffic, etc.
                         \_ It's happening now.  It's just a matter of time
                            and degree.  Those who don't want it or can't take
                            it or whatever will go elsewhere.  Living in this
                            area is a choice.  It isn't mandatory.  I don't
                            intend to spend the rest of my life here.
        \_ God is making more people but is not making more land.  No surprise
           that housing hasn't dropped in a significant way.  Guy down the
           street sold his ugly house after 9 months with a 50% gain only a
           month or so ago.
           \_ Man is making more land. Flattening hills in East Bay, Fremont,
              San Jose and taking up former ranch and farm lands in same.
              But then Cisco and Sun and them keeping hiring more people
              and bringing them to this area. Where are they gonna live?
              \_ You've seen the "housing" in Fremont, SJ, etc?  I've done a
                 lot of hardcore house hunting in those and many other places
                 around the south bay.  That isn't housing.  That's a cesspool.
              \_ Cisco and Sun (and others) are in the process of moving
                 jobs to places like Texas. The Bay Area housing boom will
                 level out if not bust. I wouldn't live in a place like
                 Mountain View if you paid me to. Los Gatos? Pacific
                 Heights? Sure. Sunnyvale? Not. There's a sucker born
                 every minute.
                        \_ Forget Texas, Sun is going overseas - Ireland,
                           Russia, and India are the high-growth campuses
                           for Sun now.
                           \_ Sun recently acquired 200 employees in
                              Mnt. View. ;-) - ex-cobalt employee
2000/12/12-14 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:20083 Activity:moderate
12/12   Anybody know if there are any Tahoe cabin/house rentals where they let
        you rent for only 1 or 2 nights?  All the ones I've seen have like
        3 night minimum.  I need a cabin/house for 6 people (3 couples)
        \_ just stayed in one.. 3 bedrooms plus a fold-out couch slept
           6 comfortably.. could sleep up to 10 w/ sleeping bags and such
           and a 2 night minimum.. north shore 1/2mi off Tahoe Rd. down
           89 towards Homewood... --shac
                \_ Granlibakken is a very nice resort.  They also have
                   an absolutely WONDERFUL weekday (monday-thursday)
                   rate, of ~$70 each with breakfast and lift
                   ticket to Alpine or Squaw.
        \_ Rent a room at MGM and have an orgy.
        \_ Think about the average, what you have they for you?
           \_ Don't you mean "How to think about the average, what
              you have they for you?
              \_ Everybody gotta deviate from the norm.
        \_ Doing a weekend orgy and not willing to pay for the stay?
2000/12/5-7 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:20008 Activity:nil
12/5    Bid on renting apt space in the Bay Area
2000/11/9-10 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:19700 Activity:nil
11/9    Is the number of senate seats or house seats per state dependent
        on the population of the state?         - reformed ex-commie
        \_ no. yes.
        \_ house  -> based on population (min. 1 per state, otherwise
                     every ~ 600K people +1 seat)
                     \_ Does that mean we have > 1000 seats in the house?
                        \_ I think its 435 seats, but I could be wrong.
           senate -> two per state

           Every state has a equal say in the Senate, in the house
           its based on population. Madisonian Checks and Balances.
        \_ is it a fixed 435 house members no matter what size of the
           \_ No. The house was much smaller when there were only 13
2000/10/29-30 [Politics/Domestic, Reference/RealEstate] UID:19596 Activity:nil
        \_ Also see <DEAD><DEAD>
2000/10/9-10 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:19446 Activity:very high
10/09   Motd poll:  how many CSUAers have children already?
           \_ More interesting poll would be how much longer
              until the child of a CSUAer flames his/her parent
              on the MOTD?
        \_ How many CSUAers are still children?
           \_ I would assume all of us are.
              \_ I don't wanna grow up, I'm a CSUA kid.
        \_ we're all happy creative children until the day we get real
           industry jobs, get married, and become house slaves (ie. you
           buy a 30 year old $850,000 house in Silicon Valley and spend
           all of your spare time and savings on house work).
           \_ While you are complaining, you seem quite proud that you
              bought a $850000 house, and quite happy that you are now
              a house slave.
           \_ Who says you have to get a job/house in SV?  I left the valley so
              I could have a house *and* raise a family on one income. -emarkp
                \_ where do you live? MONTANA? KENTUCKY? ARKANSAS?
                   \_ ARKANSAS, the state that brought you Bill Clinton.
2000/10/1-2 [Reference/RealEstate, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:19382 Activity:low
      A meteor the size of an apartment building is expected to land on
      Soda Hall in the near future.  Life as we know it will cease to
      exist, and you will no longer be able to wall.  You have been warned.
        \_ but walling is our life?
        \_ Are backups up to date?
2000/9/19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:19295 Activity:moderate
9/19    How many of you hide at work to avoid house work?  Eg, constantly
        using the I need to do this project excuse to 1) use cleaning service,
        2) pay somebody to mow the lawn, 3) eat out all the time, 4) avoid
        family visits, etc.  Has "I-work-for-a-startup" become an excuse for
        totally slacking off on life's other responsibilities?
        \_ Look, if I can bill $100/hr working, It'd be stupid to spend
           10 hrs a week cleaning/doing house work when I can work that time
           (for $1000) and pay some lackey $10/hr to do the housework.
2000/9/12-14 [Reference/RealEstate, Recreation/House] UID:19230 Activity:kinda low
9/12    Gardening question: in general, if you plant a tree's fruit will the
        fruit grow?  Or is there some special pollination process with a male
        tree that must happen?  Or does this totally depend on the species
        of the tree?  There are some ginkgo biloba trees with fruits near
        my house, I'm thinking of taking some of its fruits.
        \_The answer is; you must buy a ginko tree from a store.  First
        of all, Ginko trees are not angiosperms...they do not have fruit.  What
        looks like fruit is really a strange sort of cone/seed structure that
        is only found in ginko trees today, (all the rest that had this feature
        died out over 10,000 years ago.)  And the odds are the seed inside the
        structure is not fertilized.  It's true that ginko trees are monoicious.
        each tree has only male parts or female parts.  (yes, female trees
        stink.)  Therefore, unless there is a grove of male trees near,
        (and there better be alot because these trees are wind
        pollinated,) the seed is not fertalized and cannot grow into a
        mature plant.
        \_ Stop it.  Stop it right now with this filthy discussion.
           Such sexually perverse questions do not belong on the MOTD.
        In general, if you plant a tree's "fruit" it will not
        grow. You must plant the seed...this may seem picky, but take the case
        of bananas sold in stores; they have no seeds in them so planting
        one will not grow a banana tree.  further more there are certain
        things that must happen to some seed for them to sprout, such as
        soaking them, freezing them, or passing them through a fruitbat's
        gut.(yes, there are a few I can think of that require this).
        Answer; it totally depends on the species of tree.
                                                -sofia (Bio Major)
        \_ Ginkos are special cases, as each ginko tree is only male or
           female.  Most plants are hermaphrodites and have both male and
           female parts, stamens and pistels.  Some of those can self
           pollenate, some can't.  However, there is generally enough
           pollen in the air to pollenate just about anything you will
           \_ so the answer is?  What do I have to do grow a ginkgo tree from
              its fruit?  Take the fruit and do what with the male tree?  I
              don't see any pollen-looking thingies on the male trees.
              \_ You shove it up the male tree's ass.
           \_ But he/she was talking about planting the fruit, which already
              contains the seeds which come after pollination, right?
              \_ err, sorry, yah.  Seeds are what create plants.  They
                 are pollenated already.  Of course you are probably not gonna
                 get a tree unless you pay some attention to how and when you
                 should plant the thing, and you may jsut want to get a
                 plant from a nursery or read about cuttings.  Some trees
                 do cuttings really well and those tend to give you a nice
                 year's head start.
                 \_ Try not to plant a female tree.  The fruits stink.
                    \_ this generalizes well.
                  \_ luck of the draw with seeds
2000/8/25-27 [Reference/BayArea, Reference/RealEstate] UID:19098 Activity:very high
8/25    Any place in the bay area where I can find a house < $300K?  Don't
        tell me East Palo Alto.  I'll settle for townhouse, but not condo.
                \_ just come heavily armed with a shotgun and a kevlar vest..
                        \_ Power armor.  Have it developed.
        \_ don't hold your breath.  what we need right now is a massive
                \_ I actually looking.  It's true.
           10.0 earthquake to physically destroy most of the computer
           industry around here before prices go down...just enough
           destruction to drive a large part, but not all, of the tech
           companies out.   *sigh*
                - (racially insensitive, mood swings)
        \_ You think you can get a house in E Palo for under $300k?  Don't
           be stupid.  They're not giving them away in EPA anymore.
           \_ Yeah, nowhere can you get a perfect view of 35mm shells flying
              by your window at 2am in the morning.
                \_ I was actually looking.  It's true.
                \_ 35mm? Either you are trying to shoot down aircraft, or are
                   watching big-screen films or have robots in teh streets.
        \_ You won't find a house of under $300K in the bay area.
        \_ a friend of mine bought a 2br 1ba with bay view and backyard,
           in East Oakland a couple months ago for $250Kish.  It's not in
           an elite neighborhood, but it's on the "good side" of High Street
           by the 580.  It's possible, you just have to compromise.  Another
           friend of mine bought a 3br 2ba house for $330K in Clayton (by
           Concord/Walnut Creek -- and yah, it is one of those 70s style homes
           with frightful orange and green walls inside, but she figures she
           can easily fix that) two weeks ago, so my guess is that there
           are 2br 1ba houses for less than $330K out that aways, too. --chris
           \_ The compromise being that you fear for your life and your wife's
              well being at all hours, but gee the house was such a bargain.
        \_ There are still houses ~ 300K in Newark/Union City/Hayward
           (~ 500k new) Other places you might want to look are milpitas
           (alviso), downtown (getto) sunnyvale, e sj. Town homes in 300k
           are still available in the w sj & cupertino area, but these are
           really small (~ 900 sqft).
        \_ Well, if you consider Pittsburg still in the Bay Area, my gf's
           sister bought a 2-story 6-bdrm house out there for $350k.
           \_ I don't.  Might as well live in Texas.
           \_ Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania. That's not Bay Area.
                \_ pittsburgh, california, you fucking dweeb
                        \_ Pittsburg, CA, versus PittsburgH, PA
        \_ back in november I saw a house go for 150K in oakland on
           MLK in between ashby bart and and childrens hospital.  Right next
           to bart tracks.
           \_ There are a lot of houses in flatland north Oakland (not
              Rockridge) that go for less than $300k.  Of course, a trivial
              search on would have told you that.  -tom
              \_ or
                                 Mark my words: a new 2bd/2.5bath townhome
              \_ yeah and spend $60K just to make it reasonably livable.
                 when you could spend a little more on a new home in Newark
                 and have that house appreciate MUCH faster. And a new home
                 wont suck up all your time to get it fixed.
                        \_ When I moved into my place, we redid the foundation,
                           electrical, plumbing, heating, and floors, and
                           it cost, in total, about $30K.  And it's way the
                                 places to buy(i work in Palo Alto), unless
                                 you have a well-paying job in SF or Contra
                                 Costa, then you can buy in North
                                 Oakland/Rockridge for cheap and stay
                                 near some nightlife/culture. But if youre
                                 buying a house, you probably cant afford
                                 to go out anyways,heh.
                           hell nicer than anything you can buy in Newark.
                           \_ not now.
                           \_ And Oakland sucks and it'll never appreciate.
                              I think you made the wrong choice.
                              \_ actually oakland will appreciate, but NOWHERE
                                 near as fast as Newark will the next 2 years.
                                 Mark my words: a NEW 2bd/2.5bath townhome
                                 in Newark purchased today will appreciate
                                 nearly $100K in the next 12-18 months.
                                 I'm looking at that area ASAP, but also
                                 considering an older townhome/house in
                                 S'vale, just to keep my commute sane.
                                 I am screwing myself by generating
                                 competing buyers, but really those are the
                                 places to buy(esp if u work in Palo Alto
                                 like me), unless you have a well-paying
                 Would you like to pay for a detailed study? or is
                 complaining less expensive? THINK about how the govt
                 tracks this data and you'll see.
                                 job in SF or WC, then you can buy
                                 in North Oakland/Rockridge for cheap and
                                 stay near some nightlife/culture. But if
                                 youre buying a house, you probably cant
                                 afford to go out anyways,heh.
                                \_ ooh yeah, Oakland sucks, it's so horrible
                                   to have a dozen real restaurants, a
                                   good grocery store and a movie theatre
                                   within 3 blocks of my place.  It would
                                   be so much better if I had to drive 5
                                   minutes to get to the Taco Bell/Burger King/
                                   Applebee's strip.  Not to mention an
                                   hour drive to get anywhere with any kind
                                   of nightlife or culture.  As for
                                   appreciation, I bought it for $265K,
                                   similar houses in the neighberhood are going
                                   over $400K, 1.5 years later.  -tom
                                   \_ You have a funny idea of 'good'.  If I
                                      want what Berkeley, SF, or anywhere else
                                      has to offer, I can drive to the slums,
                                      and then *go home*.  I don't have to
                                      *live* in that shit.  And how often do
                                      you _really_ enjoy that really great
                                      Oakland nightlife chill'n' on da korna
                                      wit da homeez?  Asking price != selling.
                                      People in slums always talk about how
                                      great the culture is.  They have nothing
                                      else to talk about.  Check the crime rate
                                      and let us know.
                                        \_ gee, racist trolls from reiffin.
                                           how original.  -tom
                                           \_ As usual, "whatever you say tom."
                                              I've asked you before to just
                                              add my standard reply to your
                                              garbage for me to save me the
                                              effort.  Is it that hard?  I'm
                                              not a racist but if it makes you
                                              feel better to think so, that's
                                              ok with me.  Whatever.  -reiffin
                                                \_ how about, we'll just
                                                   imagine your replies and
                                                   you can just go away.  -tom
                                                   \_ "We" who?  You speak for
                                                      all motd readers?  Or is
                                                      that the "royal we"?  The
                                                      truth is I'll never go
                                                      away as long as you're
                                                      around.  You're so easy,
                                                      I can't help but bait
                                                      you.  You take yourself
                                                      so seriously when no one
                                                      else does.  -reiffin
                                   \_ Purchased a new home in SJ for $530K
                                      10 months ago. Now similar homes
                                      in the area sell for nearly $900K. And
                                      the new homes in area with larger lots
                                      are being offered at $1.1million (as
                                      a *starting* bid). Problem w/ Oaktown
                                      is that the good parts are built up.
                                      But SJ and UC/NWK have *new* homes
                                      being built, which are of course more
                                      expensive, but drive up the price
                                      of neighboring homes a lot more than
                                      usual. LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION!
                                      And all my neighbors drive lexus,
                                      porsche, bmw, mbz and there's 1 ferrari
                                        \_ uh, when you add supply, the
                                           price goes down (relatively).  -tom
                                           \_ tend to agree with tom on this
                                              thread.  i wouldn't call his
                                              decision to buy a house in
                                              oakland stupid.  a friend of mine
                                              bought in oakland for $100K 2
                                              years ago, and the house is now
                                              worth $300K.  Yah, he had to fix
                                              it up, but he likes everything
                                              he put in, instead of having to
                                              put up with someone else's decor.
                                              plus, I don't particularly care

                                              for a permanent living situation
                                              in Newark/SouthBay. --chris
                                                 \_ i think you all would
                                                    both change your
                                                    mind if you were the
                                                    one who got mugged
                                                    or even killed in the
                                                    area.  not the
                                                    preferable place to be.
                                                    not to be racist either,
                                                    but those things happen,
                                                    and with greater freq.
                                                    \_ Believing in crime
                                                       statistics isn't racism.
                                           \_ price should go down but they
                                              do not, because the new
                                              prices for neighboring lots
                                              go up, while supply still
                                              strips demand (until the stock
                                              market crashes that is).
                                              If someone wants to live in
                                              the same area, they HAVE to pay
                                              similar prices. You do not
                                              understand BA RE very well.
                                              It more complicated than Econ 1
                                              The homes are not worth that
                                              amount of money, but that's
                                              the market, and people have/had
                                              "free" money to toss around
                                              so what do they care? Yes, BA
                                              market is all topsy-turvy. And
                                              Oakland simply has a bad rep
                                              so it can never grow as fast.
                                              Even though it's the best
                                              place to live for many reasons.
                                              Sigh, I lived in Rockridge for
                                              5+ years and would still be
                                              SJ & it's too hot and stuffy.
                                              there if the commute was
                                              reasonable. The water sucks in
                                              SJ. Weather too hot and stuffy.
                                              Gasoline is 20 cents higher.
                                              BIKE is near useless.
                                              No cool movies. But they
                                              do have fewer bums and a Fry's
           \_ You want these numbers by city, not by county.  Some of these
              counties are a mix of very nice cities and shitty slums.  County
              numbers are misleading.
              \_ Breakdown by city would be misleading too. i.e. oakland.
                 \_ That's true.  A lot of these cities are large and have
                    very varying areas and prices.  The county numbers are
                    completely worthless, however.  Cities numbers still
                    have _some_ value.
                    \_ Gee, County numbers have _some_ value too. The only
                       thing that is worthless is your all-or-nothing attitude.
                       Anyways, I was trying to help answer the poster's Q.
                        \_ Your call.  I don't pay attention to misleading
                           numbers that clump *huge* areas together under a
                           single heading.  You can if you'd like.
                           \_ You cannot find the numbers.
                                MEDIAN PRICE
           County          July '99   July '00  Pct. chg.
           Alameda         $278,000   $340,000    22.3%
           Contra Costa    $250,000   $269,000     7.6%
           Marin           $438,000   $550,000    25.6%
           Napa            $199,000   $269,000    35.2%
           San Francisco   $375,000   $470,000    25.3%
           San Mateo       $425,000   $503,000    18.4%
           Santa Clara     $390,000   $483,000    23.8%
           Solano          $162,000   $195,000    20.4%
           Sonoma          $249,000   $290,000    16.5%
           Source: DataQuick Information Systems
2000/8/23 [Recreation/Sports, Recreation/Computer/Games, Reference/RealEstate] UID:19077 Activity:nil
8/22    Looking for studio in downtown San Jose.  anyone knows the average
        rent there?

-/--    It wasn't here for very long before getting trunc'd, but for the person
        looking to teach programming to a 10-yr-old:
        "ToonTalk is a video game for making video games." -David Kahn, 10
        "It's an animated world where kids can make, run, debug, and trade
        programs."-Ken Kahn, David's dad and inventor of ToonTalk
2000/8/17-19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:19023 Activity:kinda low
8/17    Anybody on soda have more than one house?  Is the mortgage on the
        second house also tax-deductible?  I heard that mortgage interest
        deduction is lower for 2nd homes.  Can someone confirm?  Thanks.
        \_ It is less (as it's not a necessity to have a second home).  But
           you can get around this if you have enough equity in your first
           home.  Buy the second home for cash from a loan on your first home,
           then you are just extending the payments on your first home, and
           still only have one mortgage to pay.
        \_ If you intend to rent out the other place I don't think that you
           can get a mortgage deduction. The deduction only applies to your
           primary residence. Like the previous poster said, get a equity
           loan on your primary house and use the cash to buy the second one.
           That way you will have one paid off house and you will get 30%
           back on the interest that you pay for the higher loans. Also if
           you homestead the second property and/or put it in an estate it
           can't be accessed by creditors in case of bankrupcy. If things
           go south you will still have a place to live free and clear.
           \_ Well I don't have enough equity in the first house to do
              this.  Not yet at least. But I still want to cash out some
              more stock to buy the 2nd house for renting it out.  Do you
              have a lawyer or CPA do estate planning?  Or do you just read
              a book?  What book would you recommend?  I hate giving up
              control of my finances, but it get more complicated the more
              money I have.  Ugh...
              \_ CPAs, like any hired help, don't do anything without your
                 direction. They help you do what you want to do; go see one,
                 try to get a good reference. A good CPA is an invaluable
                 resource towards converting that stock into a productive
                 base you can grow on.
                 \_ I agree. A good CPA or estate/tax lawyer will help you
                    and give you decent advice but you have to set the
                    direction. The reason I know about some of this stuff
                    is that I've been investing since I graduated HS. When
                    I got to Cal my parents gave me enough to make it for
                    two yrs tops without working/investing so I gave myself
                    a crash course (necessity is the mother of invention).
                    \_ Wow, you had it so rough.  I got a job to support
                       myself for 4+ years.  Hunger is the mother of
                       \_ That was rough?  I turned down a grad school
                          admission in Palo Alto to get a job to support
                          myself and put my sister thru college (Haas School),
                          and she's paying out-of-state tuition for all four
                    is that I've been investing since I graduated HS.
2000/7/21-22 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:18752 Activity:kinda low
7/21    Anyone do a transition from tech to non-tech career?
        \_ yes.  from tech -> real estate broker/stock guru.  Make more money
           than 99% of you coding monkeys out there. Only founders can match
           the cashflow I generate.  A single real-estate transaction I do
           is worth more than your typical .001% share in an IPO.
           \_ Uh... Who said 0.001%?  Try 0.2% minimum.  Higher usually.  I
              think you need to rethink your monetary calculations.  I think
              you really missed the money plane.  At least you caught the bus.
2000/7/19-20 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:18717 Activity:low
7/18    Anybody know of a real estate listing service that especializes in
        vacant land/farms/ranches?  Everything I've come across are all on
        regular houses.  Thanks.
        \_ man realestate
2000/7/19-20 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:18714 Activity:very high
7/18    Roommate wanted for an apartment on Haste and Shattuck; $442/mo
        rent+DSL. /csua/pub/housing/gh.haste
        \_ man ghetto
        \_ isn't there a cat house on that corner? or is that a block down
           \_ about 2 blocks down. unless you mean yermom.
        \_ AW FUCK!!! I lived there.  That place was the nastiest
           apartment complex in the world.  It gives slumlords a good
                \_ WORD. I paid $390 in '90.
        \_ wow, 442 a month and you SHARE A ROOM!  Gah.
           \_ Welcome To Berkeley Housing 2000. Enjoy the Ride.
                 - paying 500 to share a studio
                 \_ paying 1300 for a studio. -SVer
                      \_ people are sharing studios?  Don't you have to be
                         very "friendly" with your roomate to share one?
             \_ no thanks, I was smart and got a place from a friend who was
                moving out -paying less than that for his own place
        \_ as i said before, i'm glad i'm out of berkeley b/c that
           housing situation out there is all fucked up...
                -- bitter depressed alum
                \_ Why are you depressed?  You're gone. -happy home owner alum
                      \_ I'm depressed b/c i'm just sort of fucked either
                         way.  It's one of those "Reality Bites" syndromes.
                         if i want to move out of my folks house,
                         I'm fucked b/c the rent around here is super-high.
                         If I stay  though, I'm going to eventually
                         lose my sanity.  Fucked again.  If I move out
                         of state, jobs in the industry I'm in will
                         be much scarcer and take a 10K pay hit.  Fucked.
                         Getting married would be a good way to solve
                         the problem, but I'm about 10 million years
                         away from that.  Besides, finding somebody
                         where kids are an option are scarce too.
                         Fucked again.
                         This is of course not a unique problem, but
                         it's a wholly negative way to view life in
                         this absolutely wonderful "internet economy"
                         that's just benefitting SO many people.
                                   -- depressed, bitter, and esp poor alum
2000/7/17 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:18691 Activity:very high
7/16    My lease is up Aug 15 and the landlord just raised my
        rent from $1750 to $2250. shitdamn!
        \_ If you're working full-time in a tech job and renting, you should
           consider buying a condo/townhouse/house instead.  You have more
           money than you think.  It just takes courage to be frugal.  I
           graduated four years ago and just bought a house.  I saved 40-50%
           of my take-home pay every month.  You'll be amazed how much money
           you can save by bringing your own lunch everyday and only watching
           matinee movies.  -frugal and happy homeowner
           \_ Four years ago houses cost half as much....
                \_ true, but hopefully your salary has kept up.  I saved
                   enough for downpayment after 2 years of working.  It took
                   me two more years because I didn't want to spend my life
                   savings in a single transaction.  I highly doubt that
                   a programmer that earns 70-100K a year can't save enough
                   for downpay in a couple of years.  LIke I said, it takes
                   courage to be frugal.
                   \_ yeah, or MOVE THE FUCK OUT OF THE BAY AREA.
                        -paying under 300 a month for a nice place in
                        a nice neighborhood walking distance from work
                        \_ And earning nothing.  When I sell my house and leave
                           the bay area, I'll have the money to buy 10 places
                           likes that and retire on your rental money.  How's
                           the walk?
                   \_ um, i'd have to be earning $140K to have "kept up".
                      And how in the hell will i save up $100K for the
                      downpayment, so that i can qualify for the $400K
                      mortgage? Even skipping lunch and movies wont get me
                      that. Sure, obviously it can be done because
                      others do it...but how?
                      \_ 1/5th of 400k is 80k, not 100k.  And you don't need
                         to spend 400k on a house... yet.
                      \_ I didn't say you should skip lunch. I said bringing
                         your own lunch.  I make less than 100K a year but I
                         was still able to save enough for downpay.  Try opening
                         a savings account and direct deposit 30-50% of your
                         AFTER-TAX paycheck into it.  And NEVER WITHDRAW A
                         PENNY FROM IT.  Live from the rest.  If it means never
                         eating out or buying shit at Fry's so be it.  Yes, it
                         is hard to do this.  It takes courage to do this. But
                         you can do it!  Also... be sure your SO is doing the
                         same.  Two people saving is better than one person
                         saving.  This doesn't work if your better half is
                         not living the same lifestyle.  And why are you only
                         looking at $400K houses?  Your first car is not your
                         dream car, your first house shouldn't be your dream
                         house either.  Look at condos or townhouses first.
                         \_ Don't get a condo.  It's a loss.
        \_ Have you ever considered the fact that they think you're
           a slob and they want to force you to move out?
        \_ what city are you in? this is illegal in most places (well, many,
           not most)
                \_ Pete Wilson outlawed Rent Control in California shortly
                   before leaving office.  Anyone who started renting after
                   1/1/99 in Berkeley is exempt from rent control protection.
                   \_ no the CA legislature outlawed VACANCY rent control.
                      That is, once someone moves out the landlord can raise
                      the rent as much as he wants for the next tenant.  Used
                      to be in Berkeley that when someone moved out the
                      landlord could only raise the rent something like 5%.
                      \_ 15%. Don't exaggerate.
                       \_ no 15% was what they raised it to in the interm
                          when they were easing out rent control.  And even
                          that they could only do twice in the 3 year period
                          that that was part of then rent code.  Just cause
                          you are a young'n doesn't mean you have to show
                          your ignorance.
                   \_ doesn't mean all renter protection is out. Berkeley, for
                      one, still puts severe limitation on how fast the rent
                      can rise while the same tenant(s) is/are occupying
           \_ actually very few places
           \_ San Jose.
           \_ Annual "inflationary" raise in rent is common, but NOT $500
              at a time! My Walnut Creek landlord raises rent by $50 every
              year so far, while in Albany my rent stayed the same for 6 yrs
              at $1050 for a 2bd-2br. Depends if you have rent control in
              your city.
              \_ I live in North Oakland/Rockridge. Good-sized 1bd-1ba apt w/
                 security gate, covered, reserved carport, on-site laundry
                 room. Original rent: $550. Landlord has raised rent twice
                 in past 5 years. Now rent is: $566
                 \_ yes it is called rent control
                        \_ And it's in Oakland.
          \_ My girlfriend lived in a brand-new complex near Fremont BART
             with her sister. They had to move out after lease was up because
             the complex was bought out and the new owners raised the rent
             by $700 ($600 if you were a returning leasee), no matter if it
             was a 1BDRM or 2BDRM.
                \_ Landlords are evil.  We must return the land to the people!
2000/7/13-15 [Transportation/Car, Reference/RealEstate] UID:18668 Activity:moderate
7/13    Pictures from the Underhill movie night party  and protest
        (more housing less parking) which happens every Saturday
        night all summer,
        \_ Don't need more housing.  Need more parking.
                \_ UCB needs far more of both.  Housing is more important
                   for incoming students though.
                   \_ I can sleep in my car.  I can't park in my bedroom.
                        \_ If you live that close to campus you don't need car.
                                \_ Sigh.  No.  You're confused.  Nevermind, it
                                   isn't worth explaining.
        \_ all of you new undergrads, and people who want to find
           a different place to guys are all totally fucked.
           thank god i'm out of cal.  -- fucking bitter alum
        \_ The problem with this sort of 'protest' is you're pitting two
           different needs against each other inappropriately.  You should
           be making noise about more of everything.  Certainly the university
           owns enough lands to satisfy both needs.  You're creating a false
           sense of value.  Both are important.  Both should be taken care of.
           The resources are there.
           \_ that was actually pretty sane.  I'm sure someone will
              delete that response
                \_ it's a load of shit.  The university is using nearly
                   all of its space now.  Office space and lab space both
                   take priority (in University thinking) over students or
                   parking, yet office and lab space is getting horribly
                   squeezed.  Where is all this land the University can
                   use?  There are three plots near campus; Underhill,
                   People's Park, and the Oxford Tract.  Underhill is being
                   built on, People's Park is a political quagmire, and the
                   Oxford Tract is getting a seismic replacement building.
                   So, uh, where else do you put student housing and/or
                   parking?  -tom
                   \_ Check out a map of the city with UC owned land marked.
                      It's *everywhere*.  They own a *huge* chunk of the city.
                      I was floored the first time I saw it.  And no, it isn't
                      just the obvious campus and other UC marked areas.  As
                      far as "People's Park" (it's neither), they should've
                      paved it years ago.  It's a criminal sesspool and a
                      waste of perfectly good land.  Politics be damned.  The
                      worthless opinion of the typical city citizen has never
                      stopped UC from doing anything else.
2000/6/12-15 [Reference/BayArea, Reference/RealEstate] UID:18449 Activity:low
6/12    Looking for 2-3 bedroom house in Berkeley/Albany/Emeryville/Oakland
        area that I can be very very noisy in w/o disturbing neighbors.
        Under $2K a sky if you know of any and I shall shower
        you with gratitude.  -sky
        \_ hopefully not of the amber-colored kind
           \_ My urine is glow in the dark orange -sky
              \_ "drink my yellow spray!"
        \_ I don't know any home owners in that area I dislike.
           \_ Ok.  But how about areas where you want the property value
              to depreciate?  -sky
                \_ Liability is a big concern for me.
        \_ I think there are probably a few charming places within walking
           distance of West Oakland BART.  -John
2000/6/5-6 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Investment] UID:18417 Activity:high
6/5     Poll: Stock market will do the following in the next 2 weeks
        rise                                                            1
        fall                                                            0
        .com bubble will burst and housing will again be affordable     1
        stay in the same range as now, little up/down                   1
        \_ summary: the bay area sucks. leave after graduation, and you
           can spend your smaller salary on a superior lifestyle.
        \_ The .com bubble bursting won't make housing affordable.  All the
           .com people in the bay area won't suddenly vanish over night.  This
           is the theory/prayer of the poor (under $125k total income).  Forget
           it.  Since the spring down turn, housing prices have continued to
           _rise_.  Housing prices are based on supply/demand more than on .com
           cash which is another semi-myth.
                \_ You're not gonna buy a decent HOUSE earning only $125K!
                   You need some one-off stock options.
                \_ Under $125k?? ouch. How expensive of a house can you get for
                   that income anyway?
                   \_ How far do you want to push it?  Get a really expensive
                      loan and pay some high rates and you can go to $650.  If
                      you're not insane, you can do $400k without losing sleep.
                \_ There will continue to be *need* for housing if there's
                   a stock market crash.  In economic terms, "demand" is
                   the combination of "need" and "willingness/ability to pay".
                   So while a stock market crash won't necessarily reduce the
                   need for housing, it will reduce the demand.
                   I think it's unlikely prices will significantly drop,
                   however.  The first thing that will happen is a reduction
                   in over-bids, and then houses will start to stay on the
                   market at lot longer at current listing prices.  There's
                   a lot of slop there to take out before anyone will start
                   cutting prices on houses.   -tom
                   \_ Going from 1 day on-market-to-sale to 7 days on-market-
                      to-sale is still way out there especially compared to the
                      rest of the country where 6+ months isn't unusual and the
                      bid is almost always under asking, not over, and usually
                      includes non-cash incentives from the _seller_.
                \_ so under what condition will housing again be affordable?
                   \_ How about a nice game of Global Thermonuclear War.
                        \_ At which point housing goes to those with the most
                           functional weaponry.
                   \_ None really.  There are always more people but God isn't
                      making more land.  Historically speaking, housing prices
                      _always_ rise.  Yes, there are periods of ups and downs
                      but overall, especially in the bay area, housing will
                      continue on the upward slide to infinity.  The cheaper
                      housing just moves further out and there's a very limited
                      amount of 'core' housing (ie: close to SV and/or SF).
                      Think of this, a new home in East Palo Alto, the recent
                      murder capitol of the country (or was it world?) will run
                      $400k to $450k _and_ you have to *compete* to get it.  In
                      short, don't hold your breath.
                        Housing prices have already stopped rising.
2000/6/1 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:18380 Activity:kinda low
5/31    I own a small apartment complex (real estate investment).  It's
        currently vacant.  After some renovation I'm thinking of only renting
        it out to local school teachers.  Rent is expensive in this area and
        I think we're losing good teachers because of it.  I want to give them
        low rent.  Is it legal to (a) rent it out only to school teachers?
        If not, is it legal to quote them a lower rent than non-teachers?
        This is not a troll.  I want to know if this can be legally done
        without getting sued.  Thanks.
        \_  I don't think it's illegal;  after all, that big brick apartment
            complex at the corner of hearst and arch only rents to
            non-students, and they never had any legal problems it appears.
            it's a kind move you are making..and plenty of people
            state strong cases below.  Just as long as you do not
            discriminate according to race, sex, and religion, you
            are pretty much clear.
        \_ You're hereby reminded that the motd is not a lawyer, or even
           a human being. It is a collection of non-lawyer specimens (which
           are, arguably, homo sapiens). Despite what we all think we know,
           you are running a VERY high risk taking any advice posted on here
           at face value. Go and see a lawyer. The money it'll save from future
           potential lawsuits will be worth it. -nonlawyer
        \_ I would say that it's illegal to quote teachers lower rent or
           rent only to teachers.
           \_ You would probably be wrong.  HUD has a program which sells
                houses to teachers at 1/2 off, i suspect that you would
                not run into any problems doing something similar yourself.
                To ban all non-teachers, you might have to call yourself
                a teachers co-op or some such.  (note that the Co-ops in
                Berk. rent some houses only to students, so why not be
                able to rent only to teachers)  In fact, you should call
                yourself a non-profit for teachers then pay yourself
                whatever your yearly profit would be and you can get
                good tax breaks (and probably shelter other income if you
                are clever)
                \_ I know the gov't can have programs like this, but I'm
                   not the gov't!  :-)  Coops have to be non-proft, I'm not
                   ready to do that yet.  I will still generate income
                   from my tenants, I just won't be gauging them.  How
                   about those "retirement" apartment complexes?  They're
                   discriminating on the basis of age and they're for-profit.
                   \_ :-[ , It's legal.  (that clear enough)
                        Also, you seem to be a little confused as to the
                        nature of non-profits.  You can set up a non-profit
                        just for this bldg, pay yourself an excessive salary
                        [the money does not know where it came from].  The
                        salary you can pay yourself is virtually limitless
                        (certainly more than you are going to make in "profit"
                        on a "small" apartment comlex (unless we have widely
                        differing ideas on what "small" is).  It is only
                        the non-profit COMPANY that can't make money (and
                        that isn't really true either) You as the founding
                        executive can still pull in a great deal.
           \_ My understanding is that it IS legal to discriminate on the
              basis of a tenant's profession.  (e.g. refusing to rent to
              a lawyer is permissible, but don't be surprised if they sue
              you anyway ;)  You of course cannot discriminate on the basis
              of race, religion, etc., but occupations are not a quality that
              is protected against such decisions.
        \_ Ask a lawyer, not the motd.  How can stupid people attain and
           keep so much money?  Never ceases to amaze me.
         \_ You wanna know what never ceases to amaze me? Motd censors. I mean,
            you decided somehow to keep the stupid GQ rice picking thread,
            which is of course of no merit other than purely sociological
            wankering. THis is fine. That's one of the functions of the motd.
            When someone asks about real estate, does s/he expect a correct
            answer? Maybe, who knows. That's just all part of this grand
            experiment known is the soda motd. I found it interesting to
            read the responses to this thread, because I, apparently like
            you, was amazed that someone would ask such a question in this
            forum. Does that mean we FUCKING CENSOR it? FUCK FUCK FUCK.
          \_ hey, which of you fucking idiots nuked the rest of this
             thread?  FUCK YOU ASSHOLE
2000/5/9-10 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:18212 Activity:low
5/8     Any suggestions for online apartment listings for East Bay (around
        Fremont / Hayward)?
        \_ The listings you'll find online will be for the expensive
           apartments in this area.  If you want to find a reasonable
           apartment, drive around and visit a few complexes.  Anything
           with three or more stories will be expensive.  Vacancies abound.
2000/5/3-4 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:18164 Activity:moderate
4/33    Where can I find housing information for the Berkeley area?  Is there
        a on compus organization that can help?
        \_ hahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!!!!
         \_What's so funny?
          \_ Housing? What do you need housing for? Sleep on Telegraph
             in a box, save you the $1,000 rent you'll have to pay
             for a 10'x10' studio in Berkeley.
2000/3/24-25 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:17842 Activity:kinda low
3/23    I'm thinking of installing ethernet in four rooms in my house. Yes,
        it does involve going into the crawlspace.  Has anybody done anything
        like this?  Or had a contractor do it?  How much $$$ did it cost you?
        \_ I just got a big drill and drilled holes.  my landlord
                will hate me one day, oh well.
                \_ Not really.  He'll make you pay for the damages.
        \_ Fuck that.  Go wireless.  Cheaper and it won't be outdated in
           3-5 years.
           \_ Does it provide the same bandwidth as T1 or T3?
              \_ The high-speed wireless systems (e.g. wavelan, airport) run
                 at 11Mb/s; this is faster than a T1 (1.45Mb/s), comparable to
                 slow ethernet (10Mb/s), and slower than a T3 (45Mb/s) or fast
                 ethernet (100Mb/s).
                \_ Cheap systems are doing 1.6 - 2.3 mb/s which still tops
                   a T1.
                 \_ 11 Mbps = 1.3 MB/s ==  slow local-net file-copy
                    hey, what's the latency on WaveLAN, etc.?
                    Could it be so bad you can't play net games?
                    You might want to check range (downstairs one side of
                    the house, upstairs the other side of the house)
                    \_ I'm using airport at home. It works quite well
                       and I can even play UT and Q3A without any delays.
                       I'm getting the full 10Mbit since my airport base
                       station is connected to a full duplex switch port.
        \_ I know someone who does that kind of work.  I have no idea how
           much he charges.  Email me if you want his contact info. -sony
2000/2/1 [Reference/RealEstate, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:17396 Activity:nil
2/1     female northside aptspace avail: /csua/pub/housing/northside2-1-2000
2000/1/6-8 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:17175 Activity:kinda low
1/6     Anybody know where I can find exact maps of school districts?  I'm
        looking for a house and I want to know which school district a house
        belongs to.  The web sites of the particular school districts that I'm
        interested doesn't have that info. I'm wondering if there's a central
        depository for such things.  Also is there a good place to look at
        school rankings? has some, but I'm looking for
        others.  Thanks.
        \_ There's a book called "McCormick's Guide" that even has average
           SAT scores.  There's a web site selling it but I forgot the URL.
           My sister got the book from her real estate agent free.  -- yuen
        \_ Maps change too quickly, and are not centrally stored anywhere.
           You'll find one at the district office of whatever districts
           are in the area. Post your location and somebody here will know
           what the good schools are.
        \_ Try for this and other info. -emin
           \_ Expect outdated and incomplete information en masse
              -been there, tried that
1999/11/30-12/2 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:16978 Activity:moderate 52%like:17958
11/30   living room for rent: /csua/pub/housing/CollegeAveApt.99
        \_ damn, im glad i dont live in berkeley anymore. thats twice what i
           pay for a whole floor of a house in a nice neighborhood.

        \_ damn, i wish a 9.0 earthquake would hit, fuck up all of silicon
           valley, and get housing/rental costs back to normal.
           \_ That won't change anything.  A huge stock market crash would put
              lots of housing on the market for cheap though.
                \_ how's that?  A stock market crash doesn't really hurt
                   the people who already have bought.  -tom
                \_ Some of us secretly hope for even that.
                   \_ Sure, as long as you're not affected by layoffs or
                      in some similar fashion. --dim
                        \_ Wouldn't matter.  I can get a loan for a cheap
                           house without IPO money.  I'll never get enough
                           money for a house as things are without it.  Any
                           job will get me a cheap house.  Bring on the
1999/11/3-4 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:16818 Activity:moderate
11/2    What are good online rental urls for those looking for housing
        (either as a roommate or a lease) in SF?  thanks
        \_ <DEAD><DEAD>
           \_ That site appears to be down. Is the address spelled
                \_ DNS problems.  Should be corrected shortly.
        \_ I am not sure if this qualifies as good
        \_     kinda cool.  You can search by price, etc
1999/11/1 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:16801 Activity:insanely high
11/1    I was kind of surprised to find out that JFK jr. lived in an
        APARTMENT in NYC. Does anyone know if he owns property? With
        all the $ he has, I'd expect him to own jumbo jets and huge property
           \_ who let this moron into CSUA? We have better things to do
              then gossip about celebs who you will NEVER meet, never sleep
              with, and never spend one moment of their f.u. lives thinking
              about you. And besides, you ever lived in NYC, you know how
              how much his "apartment" cost?
        \_ What's wrong with an apartment? I'd rather live in a small apartment
        in NYC than in a big house with a yard and a white picket fence
        out in the suburbs.
                \_ Ah, yes!  The joy of being young and foolish and full of
                   one's self and opposed to all that one can't have!  Down
                   with The Man!  Rise up, America's Youth!  Fight the good
                   fight against your elders!  Oppose all those over 30!!!
                   YOU *FEEL* THE GOOD VIBES!!  OOOOH!  Death to happiness!
                   Up with sour grapes!
        \_ you know you can own the apartment you live in.
           \_ is it still an apartment if you own it?
1999/9/9-10 [Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:16489 Activity:low
9/9     That lightning storm was cool.
        \_ tstorm caused by 9-9-99 problem. read about it at

        \_ Make sure to watch again the next time I do yer mom.
           \_ You couldn't handle my mom, little boy.
           \_ my mom neither.  She's evil.
        \_ Yeah, especially if you lost power or had your house burn down.
           \_ Yeah, and steak knives are cool until *A RAVING MANIAC KILLS
              Did you have your house burn down?  Find some fucking joy.
                \_ Yes, I did.  Thanks for asking.
1999/7/12-13 [Reference/RealEstate, Reference/BayArea] UID:16114 Activity:high
7/12    Save 1015! Preserve the SF House Meat Market from gentrification! -sameer
        \_ Meat market? hardly, unless you crave chaste asian booty. if
           you really want to get laid, go to 1984 and stand in one
           place for awhile.
        \_ for the record, the housing next to 1015 is a public
           housing project --caliban
           \_ shhhsh.  stop actually being informed about anything you
              rave about.
        \_ why the hell should i sign a petition that gives me absolutely
           zero info on the issue?  (and on a website that consists of
           nothing but shockwave for that matter)
        \_ Wow... I read the site and the shockwave crap and this place sounds
           like a nightmare!  Is there a petition I can sign in support of
           closing it down forever and preventing another such menace from
           popping up elsewhere in the city?
                \-1015 has got to be one of the most obnoxious places in sf.
                i cant believe i have given my money repeatedly in the past
                to people that treat you that rudely. --psb
                \_ i was there once and remarked only that it was really
                   dirty and they charged twice as much for halfsize drinks.
                   and their website is an atrocity.   -lila
           \_ 1015 does completely suck ass in all the ways mentioned
              here.  however:  there are a couple of worthwhile events
              that happen there, people renting the place out for a night.
              usually weeknights, i would stay the HELL away on a weekend.
              more importantly though, and why people like sameer and i,
              are heavily involved in throwing underground parties that
              have as their goal to provide quality, inexpensive experiences,
              contrary to the typical 1015/club scene, is 1015's role in
              city politics.  the city will be able to shut more clubs
              down, based on noise/bullshit, if 1015 loses this battle.
              it'll be like a preceedent, and those of us involved with
              the club scene don't want that to happen.  it's already
              impossible for certain types of people to throw certain types
              of events with certain types of music - the city has thrown
              up a vast array of obstacles, and even if you surmount those,
              you wind up needing to charge $25/person (unacceptable in our
              circles for a one-night event) and sfpd can march right in
              and shut it down for *no reason*.  so it's not about 1015
              as a great, swell club, it's about the future of soma, and
              the ability for new tenants to push old tenants out, crushing
              established businesses.  there's a good article in the
              /sf weekly/ regarding this phenomenon:
                                                                -- caliban
                \-what happened to the old "coming to a nuisance" defense?
                an appropriate name in teh case of 1015. --psb
1999/7/4-6 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:16069 Activity:kinda low
7/05  Anyone know of any good housing leads in Berkeley?  Need to find a
      2 bedroom apt or a room to rent.  Must be a quiet place.  Any leads,
      send email to  Thanks.
      \_ *rofl*.  Um, sorry... -- ilyas
         \_ Actually ilyas, that's where I found the the huge place 1
            block from Soda for $375 that I always taunted you with.
            Engineering people often post their ads there instead of the
            UC's housing programs, so it's good if you're looking for
            stuff on Northside. Yes, I got lucky as hell, but still. -bz
1999/4/28 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:15714 Activity:nil
4/27    What are people's experiences with subleasing apartments and getting
        \_ if your lease specified no subletting and you got caught, you're
           probably going to have to give your landlord a blowjob.  otherwise
           tell him to kiss your ass.
1999/1/28-29 [Recreation/Dating, Reference/RealEstate] UID:15315 Activity:high
1/28    Five years ago I fell deeply in love, but when I got out of the army
        she was married. I bought a house across the bay from her, so I could
        see the green light out at the end of the dock behind her house
        every night. Recently I learned that her husband was having an
        affair. Fast forward to a few weeks ago, my love's cousin moved
        into the house next to me. I'm considering asking him to ask her
        to tea so we can see if we still have a relationship. What should I
        \_ Just Do It!
        \_ If you believe she still has feelings for you, go for it. But the
           most preferable method is to do it YERSELF, aka do not rely on
           her cousin. You get more brownie points this way.
        \- And remember you DON'T ask her out for relationship but to rekindle
           the long lost tie and to catch up. In another word, to let her know
           you're there for her and but don't confront her about relationship
        \_ NOT a good idea. She's not a virgin anymore.
        \_ can we got some lady to comment on this, please?
           \_ Yeah.  Fitzgerald sucks.
1999/1/3-4 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:15168 Activity:high
        \_  Just don't move out.
1998/12/6 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:15077 Activity:nil 54%like:14690
12/5    Housing available. See /csua/pub/housing/GrizzlyPeak.txt
1998/11/30-12/1 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:15045 Activity:high
11/29   Hey all, my company is paying for my relocation from SF to LA.  they
        said that i can just give them a fair quote of what it would cost
        if i hired movers and they will just give me the cash and i can
        rent a uhaul.  anyone know a fair price to move a one bedroom
        apartment with furniture down to LA?
        \_ What company is this.  If you're a CS major I'm surprised that
           you're passing up possible bay area jobs for something down in LA.
           \_ 1) Questions end with a question mark: '?'
                 \_ csua motd grammar is different than traditional grammar
                    ie: f u cn rd ths thn u cn gt a jb n cptr pgmmg.
                        \_ that wasn't funny when you posted it yesterday,
                           either.  -tom
                           \_ tom, you should be the last person to judge
                              other people's sense of humor.
                           \_ sign your name, wimp.  -tom
                                \_ It's not a motd standard to sign name.
                                \_ it's still cowardly to insult someone
                                   without signing your name.  -tom
                     \ It's not so != that u can use ie when u mean e.g.
              2) By moving to LA, he may get a significant raise in buying
                 power.  And hey, maybe he doesn't want to live in the bay
                 area--had you thought of that?
                 \_ And the less people who stay in the Bay Area, the
                    better the standard of living for the rest of us
                 \_ I would have loved to stay in the SF bay area. But
                    as it is, I can actually afford a 3 bedroom house with my
                    $70K salary (on a 15-year mortgage) down here, and not
                    have to dodge bullets or druggies going to the corner.
           \_ He also has few alternatives to moving out of LA if he
                decides he wants to leave this company.  BTW, the money
                they give you for moving may be taxable. -jor
                \_ It's tax-exempt if (simplifying) you stay with the
                   company for a year, but if they pay it to you as
                   income, you'll have to itemize deductions to avoid
                   paying taxes on it. Better yet: save receipts for
                   all move-related expenses (including movers,
                   transportation to LA, temporary LA hotel, etc.)
                   and have company reimburse you -- then they
                   handle the deduction.
        \_ Why not call some movers for 'an estimate?'   You're shopping around
                \_ Exactly.  How much it'll cost depends on weight and their
                   time.  If you have them pack, get better insurance than the
                   standard 80 cents/pound, etc, the price goes up.  Getting
                   that insurance requires that they pack your stuff.  That
                   costs also.  Get an estimate that includes proper insurance
                   and packing costs for breakables and give tham # to your
                   employer. --been there
1998/10/23-25 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14812 Activity:nil
10/23   Room for rent near campus.  See /csua/pub/housing/tpc -tpc
        \_ do you and sony share a time machine?
           \_ you should read Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency -jctwu
           \_ 10/23/2003  Room for rent near campus.  Please respond quickly,
                          otherwise someone else could beat you to this highly
                          desirably apartment! -bsmith, time machine user
1998/10/13-15 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14770 Activity:kinda low
10/12   Can anyone recommend any sources for basic mortgage / real estate
        advice?  We want a 2nd $50K mortgage but everyone has a sh*tty
        credit record except me so my parents are considering selling
        the deed to me (and getting a new interest rate).  Never understood
        what "points" are.
        \_ Points are upfront charges that the bank gets which get tacked
           onto the loan.  So a 8.9% is the same as a 6.9% with 2 points.
           \_ thx!
        \_ Check out which explains pretty much
           everything there is to know about real estate.
           \_ thx! DOLBY!!
                \- "buysing a home in calif" or soemthing like that from
                Nolo is not a bad book. explains what "points" are, what
                "escrow" is etc. --psb
                \_ escrow, isn't that the predecessor to lucifer?
                   \_ No that's Microsoft you fucker
1998/9/28-29 [Reference/RealEstate, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:14690 Activity:nil 66%like:14678 54%like:15077
9/28    I need a friend.  /csua/pub/housing/ABATTOIR - danh
        \_ I already have lots of friends.  now i need a roommate. - danh
1998/9/25-28 [Reference/RealEstate, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:14678 Activity:nil 66%like:14674 66%like:14677 66%like:14690
9/25    I need a roommate.  /csua/pub/housing/ABATTOIR.  - danh
1998/9/25-26 [Reference/RealEstate, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:14677 Activity:nil 66%like:14678
9/25    I also need a roommate. /csua/pub/housing/Campbell_CA*.  -andrewh
1998/9/14-15 [Reference/RealEstate, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:14591 Activity:nil
09/13   Studio for sublet for semester or longer. -hitran
        Please don't delete this.
        \_ try putting it in /csua/pub/housing
        \_ Learn how to make a real web page, not just using MS crap that
           puts in IMG src="file:///C:/My%20Documents/rent/floorplan.gif"
            (like we can see gifs on your stupid winblows machine)
        \_ And while you're at it, learn how to spell
1998/9/13 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14584 Activity:high
9/12    Urgent: Have to sublet my appartment/studio because of emergency.
        Prime location, furnished, $500 rent see webpage for discription:  Please if you know
        anyone who needs housing, have them contact me. -hitran
                \_ Your web page image (and english) are badly broken.
1998/9/11-13 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14574 Activity:nil
9/10    Room in 4br house in Belmont. Awesome house. Mail ali.
1998/7/24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14376 Activity:nil
7/23    A friend of mine needs temporary housing until Aug. 28.  Please
        email me if you know any availability.  -- zyin
        \_ There is no housing, only Zuul.
1998/7/20-21 [Reference/RealEstate, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:14350 Activity:nil
7/20    2BR 1.5 BA 2-story apt.  $800/mo.  avail. Sept 1.
        (see /csua/pub/housing/CV.txt for more info) -sony
1998/7/10-13 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14311 Activity:high
7/9     who wants my $650/mo studio on channing near dana? --aaron
        \_ no, but i'd like your $650
        \_ no, but i'd like your sex  -John
           \_ his dog is named sex
           \_ I've had John's sex.  Anyone want it?  I'm done.
        \_ what would make any studio worth $650?
                \_ any studio near campus is at _least_ that much.
                        \_ I pay less for my 2-bedroom near campus.
                           \_ If you pay less than $650/mo for a 2 bedroom
                              then you must live in a shithole.
                                \_ He's sharing with 3 other people or
                                   something.  Economic reality comes to
                        \_ Only if you're stupid or too lazy to shop around.
                                \_ you must not care about the conditions
                                   you live in...  i've _rarely_ seen a
                                   habitable studio for less than $600
                                   that's near campus.
        \_ Live in the Co-Ops. $400/mo, food included.
                \_ If you call that living.  I call it a form of punishment.
                   Our prison system is more humane and sanitary.
1998/6/19 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14227 Activity:nil
6/18    Anyone looking for housing in Redwood City?  I might be moving soon so
        I wanna get people to takeover my place.  It's a studio and $600/mo
        utilities included.  email me if you're interested - mch
1998/6/12-13 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14209 Activity:kinda low
6/11    Any tips on how to get the most out of a car salvage deal?  My
        landlord wants to get rid of his (I think 70s era) Mustang.  New
        carburator, windshield intact, prolly bad clutch.  Best offer so far
        $50. -reeser
        \_ so is it totaled, or does it run or what? pick-a-part type places
            might give you more money. Or it might be worth more as a
            tax-writeoff to one of those charitable-type-institutions. -ERic
1998/5/26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14138 Activity:moderate
5/24    Greetings to everyone just kicked unceremoniously out of the dorms...
        \_ Go get an apartment.  The contract dates were known.  Stop whining.
                \_ he's been looking for housing for months.  go insult
                   someone your own size.
                   \_ can someone say co-ops?
                        \_ Don't do it.  Fucking ratholes.  -John
                                \_ Ach, traitor!        - brain
                        \_My old housemate got into a co-op, but she can't
                          move in until August--I guess summer sublet is the
                          best bet for now, or storage and go home.
                          \_ Apply for a summer co-op spot.  Always room.
                   \_ It isn't *that* hard.  Does he shower before meeting
                      the landlord?  Drool on them?  Blow smoke in their face?
1998/5/7 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:14064 Activity:nil
5/6     What is a good online apartment finder?
1998/2/3-5 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:13611 Activity:moderate
2/2     Lake Merritt studio for rent.  The landlord and building
        management are pretty cool.  Available at the end of Feb.  See
        /csua/pub/housing/ for more info.  -sony
        \_ how much for rent?
        \_ what happened to the current tenant?
            \_ they're dredging Lake Merritt for the body after they
                    failed to pay the rent last month
            \_ he moved in with his boyfriend.
                \_ aspolito lived here?
                \_asspolito lived upstairs.
1997/5/15 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:32149 Activity:nil
5/14    studio apartment available now at 2511 Hearst Avenue, 2 buildings
        down from Soda Hall... look in /usr/local/csua/housing/2511, e-mail
        me for info     -lolly
1997/3/24 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:32096 Activity:nil
3/24    Southside room for rent,
        see /usr/local/csua/housing/
        for more info jcwu
1996/6/5 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:31847 Activity:nil
6/03    Looking to find a new place to live, moving in ASAP.
        If you think you might be able to live with me, please
        consult ~tmonroe/pub/apartment.  It makes it even easier
        if you have a vacancy in your place, but I'm doing a little
        looking of my own.  Thanx! -- tmonroe
        \_ you might want to put this in /usr/local/csua/housing
1996/2/12 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:31815 Activity:nil
2/9     Roommate Wanted, to share a large apartment 100 yards from
        Soda Hall. Non Smoker.  Mail nweaver@cs for more information.
1994/4/15 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:31565 Activity:nil
4/14    I need a 1 bedroom Studio starting next semester or
        late summer. Having it near campus would be nice.
        If you know of something, please e-mail - vlad@soda
        \_ Me too! -alanc-
        \_ Hey, me too.  And i don't even care about being close to
             campus.  -ciyer
        \_I guess that makes four of us...  -icrew
         \-sigh, i guess this is a good time/place:

        i'm trying to find an occupant for one of the rooms of my 2bdr
        apt in berkeley. details in ~psb/apt. mail me Qs if any. --psb
1994/4/11 [Finance/CC, Reference/RealEstate] UID:31556 Activity:nil
4/11    For those insufficiently clueful, why has soda been down so much?
        The memory shortage, or moving equipment around the office, or....
        \_ It has nothing to do with the office, since soda isn't in there,
           but here's a quick run-down of how often it has been rebooting:

  reboot    ~                         Mon Apr 11 01:16
  reboot    ~                         Mon Apr 11 00:20
  reboot    ~                         Sun Apr 10 22:38
  reboot    ~                         Sun Apr 10 22:17
  reboot    ~                         Sat Apr  9 19:26
  reboot    ~                         Sat Apr  9 16:30
  reboot    ~                         Sat Apr  9 06:48
  reboot    ~                         Fri Apr  8 21:12
2022/08/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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