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12/25 |
2010/2/27-3/30 [Reference/Languages] UID:53731 Activity:nil |
2/26 Why did it take so long to get the Min-Nan language a unified pronunciation system? Mandarin did it looong time ago with Jhuying, then Tongyong Pinyin, and finally Hanyu Pingyin. Now if only the Cantonese pronunciation system is unified as well: http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2006/02/23/2003294235 \_ unified under nuclear fire. |
2009/5/14-20 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Languages] UID:52998 Activity:high |
5/14 The Borat is baaaack! http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=55125216 \_ I don't get why you added "The". Why? \_ Do you call it "The 405"? \_ The Santa Monica Fwy. \_ no, that is as stupid as saying Va-Lay-Ho, when you really should be saying Va-Yay-Ho. Stupid gringos, can't say Vallejo. They might as well as say La Jo-Lah, San Diego. \_ "San Ra Fel" \_ "Va-Lay-Ho" sounds stupid, but that's just because it's really pronounced "Va-Lay-Oh". \_ It's stupid when you don't conform to the norms. If Latin is a language of consistency, then English is a language of conformity. \_ Va Yayo. \_ Va-jay-jay. \_ Or Los An-Heh-Les \_ El Eh. \_ hey "the freeway" guy: get the f over yourself. its just a stylistic choice and neither is any more or less correct. using the article is implicitly short for "the 405 freeway". do you say "take golden gate bridge"? or "take the golden gate bridge" like everyone else. When people omit the article its probably implying "route 405" or some such. if you can't handle it, dont take the freeway and just RIDE BIKE \_ dude, take a chill pill man. \_ Do you take "the Telegraph Ave" or speak normal English like everyone else? \_ Do you say "take the Telegraph Ave" or speak normal English like everyone else? \_ I grew up in Vallejo. I have never heard anyone pronounce it Va Yay Yo or whatever you are promoting. \_ Va-La-HO. --e40 \_ I went to a friend's daughter's Quinceanera in Vallejo. His whole family pronounces the l's like it was an English word. |
12/25 |
2008/8/20-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:50916 Activity:moderate |
8/20 So is the correct pronunciation PeKING, Beijing, Pecking, etc? I've seen it spelled as Peking, Beijing, and pronunciated like PAY-jing, pay-JING, pay? Jing, etc. How do I say it? \_ bay-jing is accurate. Mandarin is tonal and the tones are hard to describe with English analogies, so you really just have to listen to how a native speaker says it. If you learn the four major tones, that will also make things clearer. \- it seems like more TV people are learning to say Bei-Jing instead of Bei-Zhing. Note also similar Nan-jing (southern capital). \_ I think they should not bother. They don't bother to pronounce German or Russian names properly. Just use the anglo names, fuck 'em. \_ No matter how you say it, if you're a Westerner unaware of tones, you'll say it wrong, no matter how many times you say it. It drives me NUTS to hear dumbasses on NBC saying "Now this is Lin-Lin. Did I say it right? Is it LIN lin? lin LIN! LIN LIN! lin lin?" Fucking dumb ass fucktard Westerners. \_ Ling Ling FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT \_ Maybe if Chinese had an alphabet like a civilized language. This is a nation that doesn't even use forks. The Chinese contributed a lot to the world. Language and writing are not among the contributions. \_ Peking was the old correct spelling which was pronounced Pe-King. The current correct spelling Beijing was last adopted in 1949 by the Chicom. (Insert Chicom troll here.) \_ Text written in Chinese usually takes fewer bytes to store (uncompressed Unicode) than the same text written in English. \_ Text written in Chinese (Unicode) usually takes fewer bytes to store than the same text written in English (ASCII). \_ That's it, the motd must be in Chinese from now on! \_ about 5 months. I highly respect anyone who can read and write Chinese at above retard level and is not a native speaker. \_ Doesn't unicode use two bytes for each character, versus one byte for each in ASCII? So what you are saying is that written Chinese uses less than 50% as many characters. Is that right? \_ Yes, that's what I'm saying. -- PP \_ How long does it take to write it? \_ And fork usage is more civilized because ...... \_ I dunno, Hanzi has the big advantage that it's readable no matter which dialect of Chinese you speak. Imagine if we had a writing system that was readable by anyone who speaks any european based language. \_ I think having an alphabet of less than 90000000 characters is a big win. Yes I know commonly people use a much smaller alphabet, in the low thousands, but jesus christ that's just too much. \_ You mean like the Latin alphabet we use? \_ Wow, you don't speak french, german, or spanish, yet you can read and understand anything written in those languages just because it uses the same alphabet? That's a neat trick. \_ Yes, you can read it. You might not understand it. What's the big deal about being able to read Chinese no matter which dialect of Chinese you speak? That's true of all languages. Southerners can read English as well as Yankees. What's limiting about Chinese is that people in other nations have no idea what something says or how to pronounce it. Not so with French vs. German vs. Spanish vs. Tagalog vs. Hungarian. These are not just simple "dialects". \_ Apparently you can't read _and_ understand English either. I sure wouldn't trust you on Tagalog. Understanding is the point here, not being able to guess at phonetics. not just simple "dialects". PS Jackie Johnson is totally hot and Asian women are all flat! \_ Please take a language anthro class and come back when your brain power is higher. \_ Is that class going to teach me why logograms are better than an alphabet, chicom troll? "If we consider Sinitic languages as a group of the great Sino-Tibetan family, we may further divide them into at least the following mutually unintelligible tongues: Mandarin, Wu, Cantonese, Hunan, Hakka, Gan, Southern Min, and Northern Min. These are roughtly parallel to English, Dutch, Swedish, and so on among the Germanic group of the Indo-European language family." - Mair, Victor H. (1991). "What Is a Chinese "Dialect/Topolect"? Reflections on Some Key Sino-English Linguistic Terms. -- Well, guess what? English, Dutch, and German all share an alphabet, too. Nothing unique about Chinese there. Further, so do farther removed languages like the Romance languages, Baltic languages, and Finno-Ugric languages. \_ The point here, bone-head, is that the differing chinese dialects can read _and_ UNDERSTAND each other's writing. The average English speaker can (sort of) read, but cannot understand German, Dutch, Swedish, etc. This is why Chinese TV shows are all subtitled in Chinese. And no, I'm not Chicom. Nice try. \_ Peking was a previous official spelling which was pronounced Pi-King. (Cf. Peking Duck.) The current official spelling Beijing was last adopted in 1949 by the Communist Party of China. \_ الله أَكْ! |
2007/3/12-14 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Languages] UID:45939 Activity:low |
3/12 What is the definitive pronunciation of Thermopylae? \_ see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopylae \_ The OED says ther-MAW-pih-lee or ther-MAW-pih-lie. \_ see http://tinyurl.com/3cckho \_ I did, but I'm not exactly fluent in IPA. -op \_ I was taught that the proper pronunciation was something like ther-mo-pee-lay or ther-ma-pee-lay. |
2007/2/21-23 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45787 Activity:high |
2/21 What is the correct pronunciation for "le boeuf sur let toit"? Is it "le buu sir ley tuahh?" Am I close? \_ Yup, that's almost exactly right. The f in boeuf isn't silent, though. (Did you mean "le boeuf sur le toit"?) \_ Yup, that's almost exactly right. You do pronounce the f in boeuf, though. (Did you mean "le boeuf sur le toit"?) \_ Oh yeah, typo. Thanks for your help! BTW what's the best way to learn basic French so that I don't seem like an idiot when I order food? \- taking a french class to deal with haricots verts is silly. there are a couple of mnemonics, like the "CaReFuL" rule ... CRFL are the final consonants which are usually pronounced. [boeuf, blanc, pinot noir] for lots of french words there are english approximations which are good enough ... we dont say France, Nicaragua, Mexico the way the natives do. you dont want to do something egregious like say "chab-liss" whih the "ch" like "chicken" but anything close to "shub-lee" should be good enough. if i wanted chantilly cream on something, saying it the native way while speaking english would seem pretentious to me. fois gras, [http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Chantilly (click to hear)] chateauneuf du pape, sauvignon blanc ... i'd just say them they way you'ld expect to say them. the final consonant rule is good to know, but beyond that, who cares if you get the notorious french "r" correct? how often do you need to ask for directions to Reims? If you dont know how to say something or what something is, just ask. i recommend the coquilles st jacques. --psb the coquilles st jacques. BTW, somewhat ironically (i have terrible spoken french) the only word i've been corrected on by a waitperson in the US was "darjeeling". i think the person correcting me felt kinda stupid after i asked him "have you been there?" and took another look at me. i do have a funny story about ordering some "viande" up on montmartre, but it doesnt "translate" into the motd well. oh at a bistro in the 8e this dood thought i asked for "un coke, monsieur" when i asked for a "croque monsiuer" [ham and cheese] but french friends say he was probably just being an ass. --psb \_ Take a beginning French class at a community college. \_ Every day when I open a newspaper and look and the world's economic trends, every year when the new demographic trends of the U.S. come out, every time I walk down the street and hear a language that isn't English I think "Gee I sure wish I knew more French! Screw all those crap languages like Mandarin, Spanish, Arabic, and Russian, I'm going to study the Language of Tomorrow, the Language of Progress... French!" 'Cause remember, the best reason to learn a language isn't to get a better job, meet interesting people, travel the world, order food at a good(asian) restaurant, or get laid--the purpose of learning a language is to impress culture snob nerds on the motd. \_ The "get laid" aspect is still applicable to a community college French class. So is the travelling/people aspect unless you hate France and the other French speaking places which is more than most think (but most of which aren't economically important). Maybe they already know Spanish etc anyway. In reality most of us don't need to know anything but English. If you just want to get some basic language exposure the Pimsleur audio lessons are helpful. But then you don't interact with community college chicks. \_ As someone who spent almost 1/2 of his K-12 schooling learning French, I completely agree that it is not a particularly useful language. The languages you name would be far more useful, but would in no way help OP accomplish his objective of learning proper French pronunciation. BTW, practicality is not the only reason to learn a new language. Otherwise, why learn Greek, Latin or Sanskrit? The opportunity to read Homer, Ovid or Valmiki in the original language can be considered "priceless," to borrow a term. \- i thought this was "priceless": ...At the Vatican, bishops appointments are still written on papyrus in Latin as are letters of congratulations from the pope, but many bishops and cardinals write back asking for translations. "Dona nobis translation" --psb \_ It always sounded more like: "Number 17 please," to me... |
2006/1/20-23 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:41462 Activity:kinda low |
1/20 http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/taiwanese/index.php Really good Min-nan Taiwanese lessons. It's really sad that pronunciation formalization is done by a whitie instead of a native Min-nan speaker. Do Min-nan natives even care that their language is dying? Why don't they write something about themselves? \_ You could say the same thing about a lot of People today and in the past. Not everyone is that stuck on the academic concept of "preserving culture" like a rare plant or animal. Cultures rise, cultures change, cultures die. In this case maybe they don't see themselves as "Min-nan" in the way you do or simply have better things to do. \_ Every time a language dies the number of people in the world who can talk to eachother goes up. \_ Ok by me. \_ First of all, Ming-nan != Taiwanese. It literally means "South of Fujian (province)." Secondly, Fujian as a province has about 18 different dialects, the one spoken in Taiwan is mostly dervied from dialects of Xiamen city. Third, much of so called Ming-nan education was part of "Taiwanese identity" and "de-sinofication" political movement. Those who are in charge, strangely enough, cares *MORE* about the "de-sinofication" aspect than "preserve Ming-nan" culture. Much effort was wasted on things like "how to use Latin characters / Japanese characters to denote Ming-nan dialect writing." Like all political movement, it comes and goes. Since the unemployement is at 20 year high and economy is growing at slowest pace in 40 years, identity has become a less of a hot topic. Lastly, don't worry about the fact that Ming-nan dialect is going to die. It won't. Look and everywhere in mainland China, dialects will be there forever, dispite that no dialect is being taught in school. kngharv |
2005/12/20-22 [Reference/Languages, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:41091 Activity:low |
12/20 I want to learn to input Chinese characters. What is the best thing to learn, pinyin, jhooyin, romanization, etc? It's so complicated when you have MPS2, Sin Wenz, Hanyu pinyin, Tongyong pinyin, etc. When I was little I learned jhooyin but it seems like it's becoming out of flavor. \_ I'd recommend pinyin input. It matches the english typing skills you already have. \_ if you use Windows, my recommendation is actually get one of those pen-input board. Nothing is more natural than writing the character down. Otherwise, I recommend Han-Yu pinyin method. It is by far most logical phonetic methods, and it doesn't require specialized keyboard for it. Mind you that due to large number of homophonetic characters, phonetic method tend to be slow. \_ What software do you use with the pen-input board? The built-in one has an unresizable square that you need to write the character in. \_ I urge you get one of those boards from the vendor and use its software. Microsoft's built-in hand-writing software is not quite there yet \_ Which vendor? Can you recommend a set? \_ I use PenPower with a 5x4 tablet for my church work. It has several options in terms of writing area. I actually prefer the unresizable box (transparent with outline) even though it gets in the way often, rather annoyingly. Another option is where you can write anywhere on the screen, but sometimes it gets confused (or it gets me confused) in terms of whether you are trying to write or clicking the mouse, etc. Overall I am reasonably satisfied, but I haven't tried any other systems, so can't compare for you. I think typing is much faster if you are willing to train, and of course you don't need to carry a board around. They sell the PenPower systems at: http://www.asiazest.com - yet another poster \_ I think it's interesting that the sensors in the hardware everyone mentions are in the pad, not the writting impliment. It seems to me that a brush with sensors in the two ends might be a more elegant solution, especially since you could use real ink and make nicer looking characters on the hardcopy. Just a thought. \_ Thanks! I also found out that I can indeed resize the Windows Chinese handwriting IME by dragging on the right side of the character box. |
2005/2/24-25 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:36407 Activity:high |
2/24 How do people who use a pen to write in Arabic and Hebrew avoid smudging the letters as they write? This seems like a design flaw. \_ I'm left handed and manage English just fine. Although when learning Persian (also right to left), I did like the fact that there was less smear potential. \_ I'm amazed that my totally random post was replied to by a lefty who's studied Persian. Go motd! \_ Yeah. Sometimes I think we need to step back and truly appreciate the utility of the motd. \_ When I was little I would end up with the side of my hand totally filthy with graphite. Now I don't have problems except with particularly slow drying ink. Now that I think about it, my hand position when writing looks a little contorted compared to most peoples'. So I guess that's how I avoid smudging. -lefty \_ I don't have preferences in terms of right or left hands. So, when I start to learn how to write Chinese, I choose to write with left hand for this particular reason. \_ Does your handwriting look different from right-handed people's? My brother's starting to write Chinese, and he keeps complaining that the characters don't look right when he writes them with his left (preferred) hand. \_ huh? I thought Chinese is written left to right in PRC, and it's top to bottom, then right to left, (so you get more drying time) in Taiwan. Even people in Taiwan go left to right when writing in horizontal rows as opposed to traditional vertical rows. In fact, I have a friend who is a lefty but writes Chinese with right hand, because Chinese is more easily written with right hand, as each character is written diagonally from top left corner to bottom right corner. \_ Pick up any Chinese book, and it's top to bottom, right to left. That's why the cover page is on the bottom of the book or the binding to the right, depending on your perspective. And, yes, smudging was an issue when I learned to write with the brush (or whatever it's called in English). Though caligraphy was done on a very porous and therefore quick-absorbing paper, and that ameliorates the problem somwhat. \_ In calligraphy, isn't your hand and arm not supposed to be resting on the paper irregardless? \_ Yep. The correct way to hold the pen has your hand and wrist elevated above the paper. However, one still has to account for jacket sleeves or just incorrect posture. \_ Chinese has been traditionally written top to bottom then right to left for thousands of years. It was the PRC who imported English-style writing to Chinese, together with English characters for phonetics. Taiwan sticks with the the traditional way of writing and phonetics. the traditional way of writing and phonetics. -- Hong Kong Chinese \_ I am aware of that. I don't mind top to bottom but why right to left (column wise)? It's inconsistent with the top-left to bottom-right manner where each character is written. - tainan taiwanese \_ Good point. I have no idea. -- Hong Kong Chinese \_ THERE ARE NO LEFT HANDED CHINESE. \_ Haven't you seen when the 1.2 billion people in PRC clap their hands, they clap their left hands over their right hands? They are all left handed. -- troll \_ Well, traditionally, left-handed kids are "trained" out of their tendency to use their left hand. After all, the left hand is the hand sinister. |
2005/2/22 [Reference/Languages] UID:36360 Activity:very high |
2/21 Do alumnis get email account from Cal these days? Used to have http://calalumni.org. What's the status now? \_ You can get an account at <DEAD>cal.berkeley.edu<DEAD> \_ "Alumni" is already plural. Kids these days. \_ We've been through this fucking song and dance like fifty times already. Nobody cares. Even the fucking Romans didn't speak like they wrote. \_ Woah, where do we get these audio recordings from ancient Roman times? \_ If that was supposed to be a joke, it's not funny. If you really don't know anything about the development of Latin into modern day Romance languages then I'd suggest you look it up on Wikipidedia. You can also google the term "vulgar latin" In addition, there are plenty of terms we use today derived from latin which are incorrect, such as we commonly say "the data" when "data" is plural for "datum," or in the obverse we say things like "virii", which doesn't exist. The closest correct term for the plural of "virus" is "viruses". Anyway, language is a constantly moving target. How we spell things now is as arbitrary as how we spell and say things in the future. If your really want to be anal about it, the title of \_ Forget Latin. You can't seem to use basic English correctly. "If you're..." or "If you are...." \_ Err... neither of those make grammatical sense. I think that person simply meant to type "you." the "Cal Alumni Association" is technically grammatically incorrect, since it probably should read "The Cal Alumni's Assocation." Anyway, modern forms have all but dropped the possessive in things like Students Association, so it's acceptable nowadays... \_ Now, write that a hundred times. If it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off! \_ The pluralization of latin is not something everyone has studied even though everyone likes to throw around latin words to make themselves look smart. For those studying Italian, this whole alumn* bit is easy. alumnus - masculine sing. alumni - masc (or ambiguous) plural alumna - feminine sing. alumnae - feminine plural \_ While we're on the subject of pluralization, here's a 101 on Italian words people tend to get wrong. - spaghetti (p), spaghetto (s) \_ When would you ever need to refer to spaghetti in a singular sense? \_ There is a dry spaghetto stuck up your ass. \_ It snapped and now there is spaghetti stuck up your ass. Hey, Latin can be fun! \_ This joke would work better with the zucchino. - pizza (s), pizze (p) - capuccino (s), capuccini (p) - biscotti (p), biscotto (s) - zucchini (p), zucchino (s) \_ - not (p), important (s) \_ and alumnus? \_ oops. corrected. \_ <witty sarcasm deleted because I'm fascist like Bush> \_ But what is the plural form of "fascist"? \_ They're called Republicans. |
2005/1/9-10 [Reference/Languages] UID:35621 Activity:low |
1/9 How come some people say "su-na-mi" and some people say "ta-sa-mi"? What is the etymology of tsumani? \_ Google says it means "harbor wave" ("tsu nami"). I always called it a "tidal wave". \_ Some people get tripped up on having a word start with "ts." The word itself is Japanese from the combination of two kanji: tsu (or shin), Unicode 6d25, meaning "haven, port, harbor, ferry" nami (or ha), Unicode 6ce2, meaning "waves, billows" Some more info is available at the WWWJDIC (Google it), but you'll want to have Japanese character support. \_ Run "webster tsunami". \_ Never ever ever ever heard someone say 'ta-sa-mi'. |
2005/1/6-7 [Reference/Languages] UID:35569 Activity:low |
1/6 Is 'pekid' (pee-kid) a word? I remember it meaning pale or unhealthy looking, but I can't find it in any dictionaries. Is it a 'real' word or just some dialect I've been exposed to? \_ 'peaked' -niloc \- also pique \_ pallid? Pronunciation: 'pa-l&d Function: adjective Etymology: Latin pallidus -- more at PALE 1 : deficient in color : WAN <a pallid countenance> 2 : lacking sparkle or liveliness : DULL <a pallid entertainment> |
2005/1/3-4 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35527 Activity:high |
1/3 The Jaime Kennedy show is COOL! You should've seen Penelope Cruz's face when Jaime (pretending to be a reporter) asked her if she was a Mexican, and when she said she was Spaniard, he asked "What is that? Is that like an European Mexican?" \_ Hahahaha, I can imagine... \_ Jaime Kennedy, the great latin entertainer? perhaps you mean Jamie. \_ "The great latin entertainer? Is that like an entertainer that speaks Latin?" \_ Oh the hilarity! |
2004/11/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Languages] UID:35066 Activity:high |
11/24 Hispanic and Latino: which term(s) are politically correct? \_ Both are, but they refer to different things. \_ So a Hispanic is someone with spanish ancestry and a latino is someone who lives in a latin american country? I'm confused. Please elucidate. \_ I can tell you spic is not. \_ Yes, the preferred term is 'wetback' \_ similar questions: Latino vs. Chicano: What's the diff? \_ chicano = mexican \_ Both refer to the same thing, the guy who replied to you is wrong. Latino is more PC west of the mississippi, hisapnic on the East Coast. Dunno why, but that is just the way it is. \_ Uhm, no. Hispanic is someone of Spanish descent. Latino is someone from latin america. \_ So the only difference between these two overlapping groups is Brazlians, who you claim can be called Latino, and Spaniards, who you claim can be called Hispanic. Right? Personally, I think you are wrong on both counts, but I will ask my Brazilian and Spanish friends what they think. Do you believe that Latin Americans of 100% native background cannot be referred to as Hispanic? They are not of Spanish descent, afterall. \_ Well gosh, maybe my 30+ years as a Hispanic male have led me wrong, what with having extended spanish speaking family etc. Not to mention my relatives that are still living in mexico.... Hispanic is a very general term, what with the Spaniards having conquered half the freaking new world. Latino is a subgroup within the domain of Hispanicity; it's an ethnic grouping in a cultural sense more than a racial one. As for 100% native background people, I have no idea how they group themselves. \_ Well gosh, maybe my 30+ years as a Hispanic male have led me wrong, what with having extended spanish speaking family etc, not to mention my relatives that are still living in Mexico.... Hispanic is a general term, what with the Spaniards having conquered half the freaking New World. Technically, Latino is a subgroup, though it only really covers Central and South America; it's an ethnic grouping in a cultural sense more than a racial one, but I suspect most Latinos would resent the application of the Hispanic label. Chicano is the term for an American from Mexico, though I doubt a Mexican living in Mexico would refer to himself as 'Chicano'. As for someone of 100% Native American background in a Spanish speaking country, I have no idea how they group themselves. In Argentina I suspect they'd group themselves as 'rebels' and in Venezuela as 'normal' -- but now I'm just being silly. \_ Hmmm, why would people in South America refer to themselves as "Latinos"? I thought they always considerd themselves either as South Americans or as people from their own country. In fact, I've never heard someone from South American refer to themselves as "latino" or "hispanic". I think that these terms were produced by the U.S. to create a false "race" of people who didn't speak english but were for all practical purposes white with a bit of mestizo mixed in. In fact, I've never heard of anyone in Mexico refer to themselves as "Latino" or "Hispanic." The only people who use these terms are people in the U.S. \_ *sigh* The original question was 'which is more PC' and the proper answer has *NOTHING* to do with the damn Mississippi. I've tried to explain what the terms mean (not whether everyone accepts in all geographical locations). Good luck. \_ Well, it's pretty apparent to me that the terms mean essentially the same thing. Trying to say that one term artificially means A and another term artificially means B doesn't mean that what you say is correct. Since they're both essentially artificial constructs to denote people originating from people south of the people originating from south of the border they're both as "pc" as you are going to get. One may as well argue whether chicken should be called poultry or when exactly a stream becomes a river. Completely a nonsenical discussion. \_ I would argue that this whole thread is a nonsensical discussion because pc language is all bullshit anyway. Language should be used to communicate, not to express political and academic trends. If you want to know what to call someone, you should just fucking ask them. I think the worst example of PC idiocy I ever encountered was when I called some guys "Chinese" because they were a bunch of Chinese sailors on a Chinese boat who were hired in a Chinese port, and an American told me I should call them "Asian American." Obviously the person who said this knew there was nothing *American* about these guys, but once someone starts thinking in PC speak, the brain just turns off. \_ For the same reason a caucasian American of European descent probably wouldn't refer to himself as "white" or "Germanic". All my friends who were born in S. America identify themselves with their countries. -John \_ you're all wrong... http://www.elboricua.com/latino_hispanic.html in short: Hispanic - of Spanish heritage Latin - from the geographic region of Latin America Chicano - Mexican (sometimes meaning Mexican in the US) \_ Er? I see at least 3 posters that are in agreement with you. \_ That dude is hardly an authoritative source. |
2004/10/27 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:34378 Activity:very high |
10/27 Why is the monarch of Monaco called a prince instead of a king? \_ Because it was a principality of France. in 1512, the king of france recognized their independence, but the name of the office stuck. \_ Actually, in French and English it's 'Prince'; Germanic languages are a bit more precise, as they differentiate between 'Prinz', or someone with some sort of claim to a royal throne, and 'Fuerst', which is kind of a generic sovereign ruler dude. So both Liechtenstein and Monaco have the latter, there's just a linguistic difference. -John \_ I wonder if this is true of Italian also. Machiavelli's title certainly refers to the 'Fuerst' meaning of 'Prince.' -- ilyas \_ ...and Principe in Spanish. And for 100 points, what do those all have in common, that German does not (besides edible food)? -John \_ The English have edible food? \_ Yes, it's called curry. \_ Are you looking for the latin root? --scotsman \_ If you mean Latin, that's not too hard. \_ English is a Germanic language, not Latin. \_ English takes bits from German, Latin, Greek, and French (which is itself Latin-derived). \_ Oh, I see. I was just looking at http://www.m-w.com/mw/table/indoeuro.htm \_ Ding. Why do you think they bothered with all that empire shit, and then gave it up once they had half of Asia and Afria immigrating? \_ The East India Trading Company was just an elaborate ruse to get better food for England? It all makes so much sense now.... \_ Well, tea anyway. |
2004/6/16 [Reference/Languages] UID:30834 Activity:high |
6/16 What is the origin/meaning of the word "Ars", and why is it so popular among geeks (Ars Technica, Ars Digita, etc)? Who first used it? Who first used it contemporarily? \_ There was a mid 80s RPG called Ars Magica. I always thought that had something to do with it. (And yes I know Ars Magica is still around.) -aspo \_ It's latin, it means "art or craft," it's been used ever since Latin was around (say around 2000+ years). \- off the top of my head see ovid ars amatoria. but i have the feeling i am missing one of the other big "ars" in the latin canon. --psb \_ ars republica \_ Arse! |
2004/5/4 [Reference/Languages] UID:29983 Activity:nil |
5/4 The discussion below got me thinking: is there a standardized system for phonetic transcription of Arabic words into English, like the pinyin system in Chinese? It seems that most people do not adhere to it, whatever it is, but it would be nice to know. |
2004/3/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:12621 Activity:high |
3/11 Is Italian the closest language to Latin than other Romantic language? Isn't it weird that the once great empire has no spoken/written language today, but that other old languages from the old empires (Greek, Chinese, etc) still survive? \- helo you may wish to see ~psb/MOTD/LatinRomeGreece \_ Roman empire was a lot more multicultural than those other two... The various states spoke their native languages with Latin as a government/trade language. Also, "Chinese" is not one language. Note that Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese were all once written with Chinese characters! \_ why isn't chinese one language? the spoken form is different region to region, by written is essentially the same. \_Chinese is one language. It just has many dialects. Also note that Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese are essentially dialects from Chinese if you express them in Chinese text. In a sense, all Romance languages are merely dialects of latin. It's just that unlike Chinese there was no unification and the written text became fragmented. English itself has various dialects, but because of faster travel, radio, and television the dialects have tended to remain understandable instead of morphing into something very different. However, I have trouble sometimes with Punjabees speaking their version of English. \_ The Roman alphabet is phonetic. If written Chinese was phonetic, then there might be more of an argument that the difference Chinese dialects were distinct languages. Likewise, if the differences in speaking the different Romance languages were not reflected in the written language, it might be easier to argue that they are dialects of Latin rather than distinct lanugages. \_ Modern written Vietnamese is phonetic. There is a way of writing Vietnamese that uses Chinese characters, but this is considered archaic now. \_ Italian is closer to latin than Old Greek is to Modern Greek. \_ 1. Latin survives/freezes in some quarters (RCC). 2. Romanian is quite close to Latin. 3. Living languages evolve: modern chinese is quite different from ancient Chinese. (I speak and write the former but have a (very) limited capability for the latter.) Greeks told me similar things about their language. Hebrew is today like what it was many years ago because it had been dead in between. 4. By western liguist's definition, different Chinese dialects can be considered as different languages (with some slightly different but overall similar grammar rules). Some Chinese consider spanish, french, and italian as different dialects of the same language used to be known as latin. 5. There is a distinction between the spoken language (the tongue) and its representation in terms of writing. 6. Japanese and Korean are NOT dialects of Chinese. They are probably in a totaly different linguistic family although the details are not yet understood.They borrowed Chinese character and many chinese words (along with their old pronunciation) when they decided they should have a system of writing their language - they developed writing much later. However, the 2 koreas banned the use of Chinese characters in late last century when they go nationalistic. 7. I don't know whether \_ I'm not sure what you mean here. While true that, in the north Chinese characters are more or less banned, and they are trying to get away from using Chinese based words, this is not at all true in the south. You can see pleanty of Chinese characters in the south, and most people's names are written in Chinese. 60% of the vocabulary is chinese based. Chinese has not be "banned." Now it HAS falled out of use, because chinese characters are a terrible way to write Korean. Korean is not a chinese language. The grammar is not chinese, and 40% of the words are pure Korean, and can't be reliably WRITTEN in chinese. Korean and Japanese are Altaic languages with a butt-load of borrowed chinese vocabulary. \_ I have been told by a american professor specialising in the 2 koreas that Chinese characters have been banned from use in literature and koreans can no longer read their own classic literature directly (i.e. w/o translation) because they were all written in Chinese (as Principia was written in Latin). I knew (and wrote) that Korean language is completely different from Chinese. However, that it and Japanese are really from the Altaic group is not firmly extablished (as say Sanskrit and Latin came from the same family). Plus the japanese always claim they have nothing to do with korean, although I never believed that. Vietnamese is in the same linguistic family as Chinese but their current writing system was developed by the french. 8. The eastern roman empire used greek. 9. The roman empire was not "more" multicultural than the other empires of similar size. |
2003/10/27 [Reference/Languages] UID:10804 Activity:low |
10/27 Jesus actor struck by lightning http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3209223.stm \_ So was the director or someone like that. And? This is going to be one of the most hyped yet least watched movies in a long time. Everything is in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, or some third language I can't remember right now, with no subtitles, voice over, etc. It's going to be a huge box office bomb. \_ it's being released subtitled \_ Are you saying you're not fluent in spoken Aramaic? Look, not everyone is a stupid and ignorant as you are. \_ Nice one, good flame. \_ What's amazing is that there is a flame below only slightly less absurd than mine that is not apparently sarcastic. \_ Someone on the set has been struck by lightning twice. If you can't see the irony of being struck by lightning multiple times while making a controversial film about the death of Jesus, I weep for you. \_ I for one appreciated it. \_ A lot of motd people are seriously irony impaired. \_ ^irony^ -jon \_ Those Romans spoke a crazy language called Latin. You may have heard of it. And if you don't know the story, it's pretty easy to brush up on it. It covers about 12 hours in the life of Christ. That's less than 20 pages in the Bible if you want to brush up on the storyline. -emarkp \_ the new yorker had an interesting piece on the upcoming movie release, here is a FREE REPUBLIC !!!!!!!!!!! reposting of the article: http://csua.org/u/4tc - danh \_ I think the original idea of using Aramaic and Latin without subtitles was awesome! I wish they had stuck to their guns on this. -- ilyas \_ I'll bet you loved Quest For Fire. \_ What now? -- ilyas |
2003/9/22-23 [Reference/Languages] UID:10274 Activity:nil |
9/21 Random acronym pronunciation poll: How would you go about pronouncing the Mozilla XML user interface markup language XUL: "zooole" as in Ghostbusters . \_ Dear god. Tell me you're joking. ZUUL. \_ What's he doing in my refrigerator? \_ "Oh my god!" "You see it?" "Look at all that junk food! You actually eat that?" "ex-you-el" \_ Are you the keymaster? \_ I am the gatekeeper. \_ Marshmellows for everyone! |
2003/7/10-11 [Reference/Languages] UID:28990 Activity:high |
7/9 Hey you russian lurkers, I'm curious about the cyrillic language. Back in the soviet days, the USSR imposed cyrillic on everybody. I'm wondering how many of the former soviet states have their own language. Written and spoken of course. Does Ukraine have their own language? I know Serbia uses cyrillic also. Any other country? And since the breakup, are people going back to their native language? \_ Racist! \_ This is such a controversial thread. I don't understand how the anonymous self-appointed nazy motd censors haven't deleted it yet. \_ That's "Nazi", dimwit. Don't you kids learn *anything* about the most basic parts of 20th century history anymore? I *know* you're not getting any civics lessons. \_ cyrillic is not a language. it's a script. most former soviet states have their own languages. some use cyrillic or a variant thereof (like ukraine) and some do not. \_ at best, it's an alphabet. We use a modern day Latin alphabet. We don't speak Latin. \_ I speak Latin. Ok well no but I knew a girl who was a Latin major. \_ Every soviet republic has its own language. Most soviet schools mandated you learn: (1) russian, (2) your republic's language, (3) some 'foreign' language, usually English, but sometimes German, French, or some other. Yay soviet education. Not all languages are based on Cyrillic, usually only Slav ones. Some are even based on Latin script. As for your last question, I don't know about other republics, but Ukraine is definitely going nationalistic, and using Ukrainian as the official language for everything. -- ilyas \_ Ah the Roman effect. When the empire collapsed everyone ditched Roman and went nationalistic. \_ And why not? Why keep the language and culture of the invaders? |
2003/7/7-8 [Reference/Languages] UID:28951 Activity:low |
7/7 Are there any Latin-American countries besides Brazil whose official language is Portuguese? I vaguely remember there were some but I can't recall now. Thanks. \_ STFW. \_ No. Google for 'Treaty of Tordesdillas'. Angola and Mozambique, as well as Macao, all use Portuguese. -John \_ Of course! The Treaty of Tordesdillas! I think BH talked about that once over vodkas and pot stickers in between force fed sessions on the perfectness of OO. |
2003/6/30 [Reference/Languages] UID:28865 Activity:high |
6/29 What does Mutatis mutandis mean (from Economist) - latin rookie \_ dict "mutatis mutandis" \_ google is your friend "The phrase Mutatis Mutandis is Latin and means "that having been changed which had to be changed" or more commonly, 'with the necessary changes.'" \- Helo, one reason the E'ist rules is stuff like this: link:csua.org/u/3fu ... it's a great title, the latin is more "obscure" than mutatis mutandis and you dont really have any context to figure it out. I suppose that violates ORWELL'42, but "Video meliora proboque, deteriora sequor.". Mors est vita hominis sine Economist. --psb \_ fucking post the excerpt. economist is paysite \_ god youre an idiot, psb. \_ Hello, all use of obscure Latin is ridiculous. oktnxbye |
2003/4/17 [Reference/Languages] UID:28146 Activity:nil |
4/16 Lots of languages are written from left to right. Arabic, Hebrew, and several others are written from right to left, and Chinese, Mongolian and some other Asian languages are written in columns from top to bottom(or at least used to be.) But what about from bottom to top? can anyone think of a written language that goes that way? |
2002/12/19 [Reference/Languages] UID:26855 Activity:nil |
12/19 What's the origin of "ad nauseum"? I can't remember since this corruption of it has been used so often. \- uh what are you asking? what it literally means in latin, how it is used in english or where it came from? literally "to <the point of> disgust. usually means "repetion to the point of being annoying" more "editorial" than ad infinitum. i think this is to generic to have an "origianlly used by juvenal" type answer. q.v. "ad libitum" --psb \_ ah yes, i was thinking about "ad infinitum". Is "nauseum" a real latin word? I thought it was just an attempt at humor. ... hmm, dict says it's actually "ad nauseam" \- well it is latin and in turn greek. like nautical. of course that is "real latin" unlike "sic ubi semper ubi" which is a simple latin joke or "sic goli misdae hoc ipuc" --psb |
2002/11/6 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26438 Activity:very high |
11/5 What's the right pronunciation of Ngyuen? Gwen? New-Yen? \_ You can't make that sound without practice. Nyen is close. \_ You can't make that sound without practice. Nwin is close. \_ Ok, can a Vietnamese native speaker record a correct pronunciation (.wav or something) and post it in /csua/tmp? Curious people want to know... \_ I've always pronounced it closer to new-wen. \_ And your first language was what? \_ It is definitately only one syllable, no matter how you say it. I think you mean Nguyen, right? \_ bah, the first guy was right Nwin is how you say it \_ I once knew a girl with that name who insisted it was pronounced "nu-yin". \_ that's cuz you she didn't want you in her pants \_ I searched Yahoo and found both Nguyen and Ngyuen. Are they equivalent? Or are they both correct but different last names? \_ Yeah and what about Ng? Is that "ing"? If so why not spell it that way in the goddam first place? For that matter why would someone write a name "Hsiao", I mean it sure wasn't written that way in China so why not just write it phonetically? \_ The name is Nguyen. It is the most common Vietnamese last name, much more common than Smith is here, and was the name of a series of emperors, the Nguyen Dynasty. "Nguyen" is the Anglisized spelling. In Vietnamese, there's a circumflex (^) over the "e" and a tilde (~) over the circumflex. I've never heard of Ngyuen before. That doesn't mean it's not a name, but I'm sure the one you're thinking of is Nguyen. The reason that they don't spell it "ing" in the goddamn first place is that it's not pronounced that way. It's actually pronounced "ng", so a better question would be: why don't you pronounce it that way in the goddamn first place? Actually, it can't be pronounced using English, only approximated (the alphabet is based on French, btw). There are three reasons for this: 1. The "Ng" at the beginning. We actually have this sound in English, but it only appears at the end of words. For some reason it's really hard for us native English speakers to say it at the beginning of a word. It's pronounced like the _end_ of "ing". I taught myself to say it by saying "ring" and holding the "ng" part at the end, after the "i". 2. The tone. In Vietnamese (and many other Asian languages) the meaning of a word depends on the tone you use when saying it. This can't really be described in writing, so get a Vietnamese person to pronounce it for you. It took me a while to even be able to hear tones in Vietnamese; they all sounded the same to me. For Nguyen, it's kind of like starting your voice at a normal pitch at "Ng", making the pitch drop as you say the letters through "uy", and then making the pitch sharply rise as you say, "en". 3. The pacing. In English, this word would be pronounced with two syllables: Nguy-en or maybe Ngu-yen. However, in Vietnamese it's pronounced as one syllable. In my opinion, "gwin" (like Tony Gwynn) is the closest you can come in English, but even then it's not that close to the Vietnamese pronounciation. - mikeym \_ \Win\ |
2002/2/24 [Reference/Languages] UID:23961 Activity:very high |
2/23 Is it really so hard to make tense and singular/plural matches in English? I'm not asking for perfect A+ book standard English, but how about getting the bare basics down? This is the easier part of the language. When in doubt, plural words get an extra "s" on the end. You'll be right 99% of the time. Try it. You'll like it. --Friends Of The "-s" Committee \_ Plural NOUNS get an extra "s" at the end. Plural VERBS use an opposite system. Also, typical style rules state that you shouldn't capitalize minor words such as "Of" or "The" in titles. \_ Not to mention the taboo against using caps for any non-abbreviation. \_ You're making it too complicated. They just need to add an "s" when they're unsure and they'll do fine. As for "typical" style rules, it's my damned committee, I can call it anything I want. \_ by your instructions, people will add an "s" when they're unsure and get either the subject right and the verb wrong or the subject wrong and the verb right. \_ It's better than they're doing now. \_ whether it's hard depends on where you come from. Some say Chinese is impossible to learn, but many grow up knowning only Chinese. The more relevant question is what the variation of the tense adds to the language. Why make the extract effort of saying "he runs" instead of "he run". \_ go learn Esperanto, loser \_ Don't be a pedant. The above comment is quite correct within natural language. Furthermore, Esperanto isn't exactly trivial in all regards, and becomes progressively less so as your native language goes further from the Romance, Germanic, and Slavic groups. Kaj se vi volas dauxrigi cxi diskuto esperante, bonvolu cxu tio faru. Mi komprenos vin. -alexf \_ Esperanto: an artificial language created for the purpose of making it equally hard for everyone to learn it. A sort of equal-opportunity for everyone to be equally ill educated and unable to intelligently communicate with others. |
2001/12/14 [Reference/Languages] UID:23242 Activity:very high |
12/13 viva la whatever -jon http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011213/ts/crime_jdl_dc_6.html \_ "vive" not "viva" \_ Says who? From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]: Viva \Vi"va\, interj. [It.] Lit., (long) live; -- an exclamation expressing good will, well wishing, etc. -- n. The word viva, or a shout or sound made in uttering it. \_ Maybe he meant: Main Entry: qui vive Pronunciation: kE-'vEv Function: noun Etymology: French qui-vive, from qui vive? long live who?, challenge of a French sentry Date: 1726 : ALERT, LOOKOUT -- used in the phrase on the qui vive \_ Maybe it just doesn't fucking matter and both of you find something more important to worry about like Felicity's hair style or something. \_ Maybe you should. \_ Hahahhaa wow a stinging rebuke! hahahahah. Can you also chant the "sticks and stones" rhyme? \_ Viva la more, viva la more, viva la company. |
2001/11/11-12 [Reference/Languages] UID:22999 Activity:high |
11/10 When working in lab, are there things people do that make you really go crazy and make it difficult for you to work? Do you do anything about it? \_ Like what? Is it something that just pisses you off? Move to another machine/room. Something that's likely to piss others off as well? Ask them to stop doing it. \_ Go home and work on your PC from there. \_ Indeed. I did this in 1996 with a 486 w 16MB ram. Installed Linux and did all my upper-division projects from there. Compiles were tons faster than on the HP's, and I didn't have to deal with the crap in the labs. \_ 'crap in the labs' was sometimes literal... one time someone brought in their dog who left a smelly little present for us hardworking undergrads in the corner of 273 soda. It's a great thing to think about when I get frustrated at work and start getting nostalgic for the good old days when I was back in school. \_ Yeah when the English majors would take over 4 or 5 machines to play netrek the night before a big project was due and made lots of little whiney noises when asked to leave. while (1) fork(); \_ Loud conversations, especially in foriegn languages, annoyed me (if you're discussing the project, do it in English so other people can join in - if not, talk quietly so you don't disturb everyone else). -alum \_ Just because you can't spell in English or speak anything ..."foreign languages" \_ Some people communicate better in non-English languages. If you are dying to join in, just ask. Most people would be willing to accommodate your disability. \_ Do you speak Korean, Japanese, Russian, and Vietnamese? If not, then relying on English to be a common language is not a disability, but a requirement. \_ If you don't speak a language, you have a disability in that language. That English is a useful common language does not mean knowing another language is not useful and an "ability". ----------------------------/ / From WordNet (r) 1.6 [wn]: disability n : the condition of being unable to perform as a consequence of physical or mental unfitness [syn: {disablement}, {handicap} {impairment}] \_ Sure, but the first use of "disability" above is a wordplay and a slight, which actually showed mastery of the language. and a slight, which actually shows mastery of the language. \_ I'll help you: either 1) talk quietly or 2) talk in English so you're being helpful but 3) don't babble LOUDLY in some foreign language: it's annoying. That help you sort it out? \_ No it doesn't. People talking loudly is annoying, no matter what language they are speaking. What exactly is your problem with non-English languages?! \_ It sounds like noise, and nothing else. At least loud English conversation makes sense. Loud foreign conversations don't. -not the guy from above \_ For me, noise is better than loud conversations which I understand but are not interested in. \_ Yes but the topic was what we each find really annoying in the labs. Some find foreigners speaking loudly annoying, some find really loud English annoying, but I think just about everyone finds really loud people in the lab \_ Yes, but the guy above is essentially annoying at all times. \_ Yes, but the person above is essentially suggesting that English-speaking persons can talk loudly and annoyingly but non- English-speaking persons should keep quiet. \_ Maybe for them it's true. |
2001/8/20 [Reference/Languages] UID:22182 Activity:high |
8/20 Are the time notations "AM" and "PM" acronyms or abbreviations of something? -- yuen \_ AM = "ante meridian", PM = "post meridian"--before/after mid-day. Look at http://greenwichmeantime.com/info/noon.htm -John \_ Not quite; it's "meridiem" (Latin singular accusative of "meridianus", a 3rd decl noun meaning "midday"). Of course, "ante" and "post" mean before and after. -alexf \_ American Heritage dictionary accepts "antemeridian" as correct, although your etymology is accurate. And you're a miserable nitpicking pedant, to boot. -John \_ I was correcting a mostly-correct answer (hence the "quite"). I was not flaming, and I would rather not get flamed either. Also, take a careful look at the definition of "antemeridian" -- this is a (rare) English word meaning "Of or belonging to the forenoon or `morning.'" according to the OED. According to AHD4, it arose from a Latin noun(?) closely related to the phrase referenced above ("antemeridianus"), but is technically not the same thing, and not the common expansion of "a.m.", according to WordNet, OED, and AHD4. -alexf \_ Thanks! |
2001/8/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:22022 Activity:moderate |
8/6 is there an easy way to tell whether an indian name or a chinese name is male or female? \_ Its is not easy to associate indian names with either male or female. Even people with indian backgrounds have a hard time with this. \_ For most Chinese name it's easy to tell if you can see the Chinese characters. It's harder if you have the English phonetics, because 1) many Chinese characters "translates" to the same phonetics, and 2) you don't know which dialect it came from. If you can post the phonetics and if it's Cantonese, maybe I can guess. \_ Jack off now, ask questions later. |
2001/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:21015 Activity:nil |
4/17 Did you know that asking "how to XYZ" (instead of "how do you do XYZ") is grammatically correct in Russian? -misha \_ Hey, sign with your login name, imposter! -- real misha. \_ 'misha' sounds like a girl's name. Only that you're not a girl you're a big ugly guy. Why do you have such a cute name. \_ Interesting but thankfully this isn't Russia and most of us are not fluent in Russian. When the Russians emerge from the stone age, get a grip on their economy, wipe out their mafia, stop selling mass destruction technologies to terrorists and make some minimal effort cleaning up the communist era environmental mess, I'll take a tour with my english/russian guidebook in hand. \_ huh? That entire paragraph would be just as valid if you replaced "Russia" with "America", and "communist era" with "unrestrained capitalist era".With the possible removal of that crack about the stone age. \_ Unrestrained capitalism is good, young troll. \_ you have much to learn, seeker. the wise sodan would have simply implemented said replacement to greater effect. \_ BZZZZT! You have much to learn, Seeker. The wise Sodan would have known wtf he was talking about before spewing the typical ignorant lefist rhetoric about the US being the same as all other countries. I'll grant that Russian material sciences are ahead of the rest of the world, the rest is still in the 70's if it wasn't stolen. So you're actually wrong twice in a sense. You get an "A for effort" to keep your self esteem up though and to increase diversity. We need stupid people at Cal, too. \_ You get a "D" for debate talent. There is virtually nothing you said specific to the text preceeding. \_ Lots of weird sentence fragment stuff is grammatically correct in Russian. Russian is efficient. It doesn't have stupid useless articles and verbs that do not serve any function. \_ we should learn to speak in lisp \_ FOL! FOL! FOL is the STANDARD! Language. \_ As is in Chinese. \_ no, but if you're in need of more efficient usages, try: "how is x done? "how do I X?" "how?" \_ then the questions asked on the motd should be in Russian or Chinese. \_ how do you say it in latin? (there, was that so hard?) \_ psb timer has now been started \_ owhay? \_ did you too attempt to find a translator and came up with nothing but pig latin converters? \_ You suck. \_ Partha, Partha, wherefore art thou, Partha? \_ Because his parents named him that. \_ not why, where. "The bard" misused the language. \_ Young troll, you must learn never to contradict dict directly. Merely twist what is there, ever so slightly. \_ you're a moron. |
2000/11/25-27 [Reference/Languages] UID:19908 Activity:low |
11/24 Wow, http://webster.com are up with the times: Main Entry: 1fuck Pronunciation: 'f&k Function: verb Etymology: akin to Dutch fokken to breed (cattle), Swedish dialect fokka to copulate Date: 1503 intransitive senses 1 usually obscene : COPULATE -- sometimes used in the present participle as a m eaningless intensive 2 usually vulgar : MESS 3 -- used with with transitive senses 1 usually obscene : to engage in coitus with -- sometimes used interjectionally with an object (as a personal or reflexive pronoun) to express anger, contempt , or disgust 2 usually vulgar : to deal with unfairly or harshly : CHEAT, SCREW \_ formatting corrected. -motd format !god \_ Isn't it a acronym for Fornication Under Consent of King? \_ Also "fornicate under carnal knowledge" and a long list of others. \_ see below \_ that's folk etymology. a.k.a. myths. the earliest known usage, contrary to webster, is 1308 [OED], which very distinctively marks it as a verb and places it in context that makes any acronym-based derivation unlikely (the postulated acronym source just can't be old enough). also note cognates (NOT borrowed) in 2 north germanic languages; chances are this word has been around since mid-first millenium AD at the very least. -alexf |
1998/12/31 [Reference/Languages, Computer/SW/Graphics] UID:15154 Activity:high |
12/29 What is the "proper" pronunciation of "gif"? Is it with a hard "g" or a soft "g" (like the letter j)? I always pronounced it like "jif" but all my co-workers say it with a hard "g", which I find a bit annoying. \_ soft g. (It's a peanut butter AND a graphics format...) \_ I pronounce it with a hard g, probably by association with the hard g in the beginning of 'graphics', but this is by no means a phonetic rule for acronyms. (I tend not to like the idea of 'proper' pronunciations, anyway; who's to say what's proper, after all? Perhaps you should ask the people at CompuServe who popularized it?) -brg \_ i have been told the people who came up with it like the soft g, but i don't believe that pics should be associated with a processed peanut butter, so i use the hard g anyway, and ignore the dorks who complain. -lila |
12/25 |