Reference Languages - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Reference:Languages:
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/08/07 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2010/2/27-3/30 [Reference/Languages] UID:53731 Activity:nil
2/26    Why did it take so long to get the Min-Nan language a unified pronunciation
        system? Mandarin did it looong time ago with Jhuying, then Tongyong Pinyin, and
        finally Hanyu Pingyin. Now if only the Cantonese pronunciation system
        is unified as well:
        \_ unified under nuclear fire.
2009/5/14-20 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Languages] UID:52998 Activity:high
5/14    The Borat is baaaack!
        \_ I don't get why you added "The". Why?
           \_ Do you call it "The 405"?
              \_ The Santa Monica Fwy.
              \_ no, that is as stupid as saying Va-Lay-Ho, when you really
                 should be saying Va-Yay-Ho. Stupid gringos, can't say Vallejo.
                 They might as well as say La Jo-Lah, San Diego.
                 \_ "San Ra Fel"
                 \_ "Va-Lay-Ho" sounds stupid, but that's just because it's
                    really pronounced "Va-Lay-Oh".
                    \_ It's stupid when you don't conform to the norms.
                       If Latin is a language of consistency, then
                       English is a language of conformity.
                       \_ Va Yayo.
                          \_ Va-jay-jay.
                 \_ Or Los An-Heh-Les
                    \_ El Eh.
           \_ hey "the freeway" guy: get the f over yourself. its just a
              stylistic choice and neither is any more or less correct. using the
              article is implicitly short for "the 405 freeway". do you say
              "take golden gate bridge"? or "take the golden gate bridge" like
              everyone else. When people omit the article its probably
              implying "route 405" or some such. if you can't handle it,
              dont take the freeway and just RIDE BIKE
              \_ dude, take a chill pill man.
              \_ Do you take "the Telegraph Ave" or speak normal English
                 like everyone else?
              \_ Do you say "take the Telegraph Ave" or speak normal
                 English like everyone else?
        \_ I grew up in Vallejo.  I have never heard anyone pronounce
           it Va Yay Yo or whatever you are promoting.
           \_ Va-La-HO. --e40
           \_ I went to a friend's daughter's Quinceanera in Vallejo.  His
              whole family pronounces the l's like it was an English word.
2022/08/07 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2008/8/20-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:50916 Activity:moderate
8/20    So is the correct pronunciation PeKING, Beijing, Pecking, etc?
        I've seen it spelled as Peking, Beijing, and pronunciated like
        PAY-jing, pay-JING, pay? Jing, etc. How do I say it?
        \_ bay-jing is accurate. Mandarin is tonal and the tones are
           hard to describe with English analogies, so you really just
           have to listen to how a native speaker says it. If you learn
           the four major tones, that will also make things clearer.
           \- it seems like more TV people are learning to say Bei-Jing
              instead of Bei-Zhing. Note also similar Nan-jing (southern
           \_ I think they should not bother. They don't bother to
              pronounce German or Russian names properly. Just use the
              anglo names, fuck 'em.
        \_ No matter how you say it, if you're a Westerner unaware of
           tones, you'll say it wrong, no matter how many times you say
           it. It drives me NUTS to hear dumbasses on NBC saying
           "Now this is Lin-Lin. Did I say it right? Is it LIN lin? lin
            LIN! LIN LIN! lin lin?"
           Fucking dumb ass fucktard Westerners.
           \_ Maybe if Chinese had an alphabet like a civilized language.
              This is a nation that doesn't even use forks. The Chinese
              contributed a lot to the world. Language and writing are not
              among the contributions.
        \_ Peking was the old correct spelling which was pronounced Pe-King.
           The current correct spelling Beijing was last adopted in 1949 by
           the Chicom.  (Insert Chicom troll here.)
              \_ Text written in Chinese usually takes fewer bytes to store
                 (uncompressed Unicode) than the same text written in English.
              \_ Text written in Chinese (Unicode) usually takes fewer bytes to
                 store than the same text written in English (ASCII).
                 \_ That's it, the motd must be in Chinese from now on!
                    \_ about 5 months.  I highly respect anyone who can
                       read and write Chinese at above retard level and
                       is not a native speaker.
                 \_ Doesn't unicode use two bytes for each character, versus
                    one byte for each in ASCII? So what you are saying is
                    that written Chinese uses less than 50% as many
                    characters. Is that right?
                    \_ Yes, that's what I'm saying.  -- PP
                 \_ How long does it take to write it?
              \_ And fork usage is more civilized because ......
              \_ I dunno, Hanzi has the big advantage that it's readable no
                 matter which dialect of Chinese you speak.  Imagine if we
                 had a writing system that was readable by anyone who
                 speaks any european based language.
                 \_ I think having an alphabet of less than 90000000 characters
                    is a big win.  Yes I know commonly people use a much
                    smaller alphabet, in the low thousands, but jesus christ
                    that's just too much.
                 \_ You mean like the Latin alphabet we use?
                    \_ Wow, you don't speak french, german, or spanish, yet you
                       can read and understand anything written in those
                       languages just because it uses the same alphabet?
                       That's a neat trick.
                       \_ Yes, you can read it. You might not understand it.
                          What's the big deal about being able to read
                          Chinese no matter which dialect of Chinese you
                          speak? That's true of all languages. Southerners
                          can read English as well as Yankees. What's
                          limiting about Chinese is that people in other
                          nations have no idea what something says or how
                          to pronounce it. Not so with French vs. German
                          vs. Spanish vs. Tagalog vs. Hungarian. These are
                          not just simple "dialects".
                          \_ Apparently you can't read _and_ understand
                             English either.  I sure wouldn't trust you on
                             Tagalog.  Understanding is the point here, not
                             being able to guess at phonetics.
                          not just simple "dialects". PS Jackie Johnson
                          is totally hot and Asian women are all flat!
                          \_ Please take a language anthro class and come
                             back when your brain power is higher.
                             \_ Is that class going to teach me why
                                logograms are better than an alphabet,
                                chicom troll?
                                "If we consider Sinitic languages as a group of
                                the great Sino-Tibetan family, we may further
                                divide them into at least the following
                                mutually unintelligible tongues: Mandarin, Wu,
                                Cantonese, Hunan, Hakka, Gan, Southern Min, and
                                Northern Min. These are roughtly parallel to
                                English, Dutch, Swedish, and so on among the
                                Germanic group of the Indo-European language
                                family." - Mair, Victor H. (1991). "What Is a
                                Chinese "Dialect/Topolect"? Reflections on
                                Some Key Sino-English Linguistic Terms. --
                                Well, guess what? English, Dutch, and German
                                all share an alphabet, too. Nothing unique
                                about Chinese there. Further, so do farther
                                removed languages like the Romance languages,
                                Baltic languages, and Finno-Ugric languages.
                                \_ The point here, bone-head, is that the
                                   differing chinese dialects can read _and_
                                   UNDERSTAND each other's writing.  The
                                   average English speaker can (sort of) read,
                                   but cannot understand German, Dutch,
                                   Swedish, etc.  This is why Chinese TV shows
                                   are all subtitled in Chinese.  And no, I'm
                                   not Chicom.  Nice try.
        \_ Peking was a previous official spelling which was pronounced
           Pi-King.  (Cf. Peking Duck.)  The current official spelling Beijing
           was last adopted in 1949 by the Communist Party of China.
        \_ الله أَكْ!
2007/3/12-14 [Transportation/Car, Reference/Languages] UID:45939 Activity:low
3/12    What is the definitive pronunciation of Thermopylae?
        \_ see
        \_ The OED says ther-MAW-pih-lee or ther-MAW-pih-lie.
        \_ see
           \_ I did, but I'm not exactly fluent in IPA. -op
        \_ I was taught that the proper pronunciation was something
           like ther-mo-pee-lay or ther-ma-pee-lay.
2007/2/21-23 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45787 Activity:high
2/21    What is the correct pronunciation for "le boeuf sur let toit"?
        Is it "le buu sir ley tuahh?" Am I close?
        \_ Yup, that's almost exactly right.  The f in boeuf isn't
           silent, though.  (Did you mean "le boeuf sur le toit"?)
        \_ Yup, that's almost exactly right.  You do pronounce the f
           in boeuf, though.  (Did you mean "le boeuf sur le toit"?)
           \_ Oh yeah, typo. Thanks for your help! BTW what's the best
              way to learn basic French so that I don't seem like an
              idiot when I order food?
              \- taking a french class to deal with haricots verts is silly.
                 there are a couple of mnemonics, like the "CaReFuL" rule ...
                 CRFL are the final consonants which are usually pronounced.
                 [boeuf, blanc, pinot noir] for lots of french words there
                 are english approximations which are good enough ... we
                 dont say France, Nicaragua, Mexico the way the natives
                 do. you dont want to do something egregious like say
                 "chab-liss" whih the "ch" like "chicken" but anything close
                 to "shub-lee" should be good enough. if i wanted chantilly
                 cream on something, saying it the native way while speaking
                 english would seem pretentious to me. fois gras,
                 [ (click to hear)]
                 chateauneuf du pape, sauvignon blanc ... i'd just say them
                 they way you'ld expect to say them. the final consonant
                 rule is good to know, but beyond that, who cares if you
                 get the notorious french "r" correct? how often do you need
                 to ask for directions to Reims? If you dont know how to
                 say something or what something is, just ask. i recommend
                 the coquilles st jacques. --psb
                 the coquilles st jacques.
                 BTW, somewhat ironically (i have terrible spoken french)
                 the only word i've been corrected on by a waitperson in
                 the US was "darjeeling". i think the person correcting me
                 felt kinda stupid after i asked him "have you been there?"
                 and took another look at me. i do have a funny story about
                 ordering some "viande" up on montmartre, but it doesnt
                 "translate" into the motd well. oh at a bistro in the 8e
                 this dood thought i asked for "un coke, monsieur" when i
                 asked for a "croque monsiuer" [ham and cheese] but french
                 friends say he was probably just being an ass. --psb
              \_ Take a beginning French class at a community college.
                 \_ Every day when I open a newspaper and look and the world's
                    economic trends, every year when the new demographic trends
                    of the U.S. come out, every time I walk down the street
                    and hear a language that isn't English I think "Gee I sure
                    wish I knew more French!  Screw all those crap languages
                    like Mandarin, Spanish, Arabic, and Russian, I'm going to
                    study the Language of Tomorrow, the Language of Progress...
                    French!"  'Cause remember, the best reason to learn a
                    language isn't to get a better job, meet interesting people,
                    travel the world, order food at a good(asian) restaurant,
                    or get laid--the purpose of learning a language is to
                    impress culture snob nerds on the motd.
                    \_ The "get laid" aspect is still applicable to a community
                       college French class. So is the travelling/people aspect
                       unless you hate France and the other French speaking
                       places which is more than most think (but most of which
                       aren't economically important). Maybe they already know
                       Spanish etc anyway. In reality most of us don't need to
                       know anything but English.
                       If you just want to get some basic language exposure the
                       Pimsleur audio lessons are helpful. But then you don't
                       interact with community college chicks.
                    \_ As someone who spent almost 1/2 of his K-12 schooling
                       learning French, I completely agree that it is not a
                       particularly useful language. The languages you name
                       would be far more useful, but would in no way help OP
                       accomplish his objective of learning proper French
                       BTW, practicality is not the only reason to learn a
                       new language. Otherwise, why learn Greek, Latin or
                       Sanskrit? The opportunity to read Homer, Ovid or
                       Valmiki in the original language can be considered
                       "priceless," to borrow a term.
                       \- i thought this was "priceless":
                             ...At the Vatican, bishops appointments are still
                             written on papyrus in  Latin as are letters of
                             congratulations   from  the  pope,   but  many
                             bishops  and cardinals  write back  asking for
                          "Dona nobis translation" --psb
        \_ It always sounded more like: "Number 17 please," to me...
2006/1/20-23 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:41462 Activity:kinda low
        Really good Min-nan Taiwanese lessons. It's really sad that
        pronunciation formalization is done by a whitie instead of
        a native Min-nan speaker. Do Min-nan natives even care that
        their language is dying? Why don't they write something
        about themselves?
        \_ You could say the same thing about a lot of People today and in
           the past.  Not everyone is that stuck on the academic concept of
           "preserving culture" like a rare plant or animal.  Cultures rise,
           cultures change, cultures die.  In this case maybe they don't see
           themselves as "Min-nan" in the way you do or simply have better
           things to do.
           \_ Every time a language dies the number of people in the world who
              can talk to eachother goes up.
              \_ Ok by me.
        \_ First of all, Ming-nan != Taiwanese.  It literally means
           "South of Fujian (province)." Secondly, Fujian as a province has
           about 18 different dialects,  the one spoken in Taiwan is mostly
           dervied from dialects of Xiamen city.  Third, much of so called
           Ming-nan education was part of "Taiwanese identity" and
           "de-sinofication" political movement.  Those who are in charge,
           strangely enough, cares *MORE* about the "de-sinofication" aspect
           than "preserve Ming-nan" culture.  Much effort was wasted on things
           like "how to use Latin characters / Japanese characters to denote
           Ming-nan dialect writing."  Like all political movement, it comes
           and goes.  Since the unemployement is at 20 year high and economy
           is growing at slowest pace in 40 years, identity has become
           a less of a hot topic.
           Lastly, don't worry about the fact that Ming-nan dialect is going
           to die.  It won't.  Look and everywhere in mainland China,
           dialects will be there forever, dispite that no dialect is being
           taught in school.                    kngharv
2005/12/20-22 [Reference/Languages, Computer/SW/OS/Windows] UID:41091 Activity:low
12/20   I want to learn to input Chinese characters. What is the best
        thing to learn, pinyin, jhooyin, romanization, etc? It's so
        complicated when you have MPS2, Sin Wenz, Hanyu pinyin, Tongyong
        pinyin, etc. When I was little I learned jhooyin but it seems
        like it's becoming out of flavor.
        \_ I'd recommend pinyin input.  It matches the english typing skills
           you already have.
        \_ if you use Windows, my recommendation is actually get one of
           those pen-input board.  Nothing is more natural than writing the
           character down.  Otherwise, I recommend Han-Yu pinyin method.  It
           is by far most logical phonetic methods, and it doesn't require
           specialized keyboard for it.  Mind you that due to large number
           of homophonetic characters, phonetic method tend to be slow.
           \_ What software do you use with the pen-input board?  The
              built-in one has an unresizable square that you need to write
              the character in.
              \_ I urge you get one of those boards from the vendor and use
                 its software.  Microsoft's built-in hand-writing software is
                 not quite there yet
                 \_ Which vendor?  Can you recommend a set?
                    \_ I use PenPower with a 5x4 tablet for my church
                       work.  It has several options in terms of writing
                       area.  I actually prefer the unresizable box
                       (transparent with outline) even though it gets
                       in the way often, rather annoyingly.  Another
                       option is where you can write anywhere on the
                       screen, but sometimes it gets confused (or it
                       gets me confused) in terms of whether you are
                       trying to write or clicking the mouse, etc.
                       Overall I am reasonably satisfied, but I
                       haven't tried any other systems, so can't
                       compare for you.  I think typing is much faster
                       if you are willing to train, and of course you
                       don't need to carry a board around.
                       They sell the PenPower systems at:
                        - yet another poster
                       \_ I think it's interesting that the sensors in the
                          hardware everyone mentions are in the pad, not the
                          writting impliment.  It seems to me that a brush
                          with sensors in the two ends might be a more elegant
                          solution, especially since you could use real ink
                          and make nicer looking characters on the hardcopy.
                          Just a thought.
                       \_ Thanks!  I also found out that I can indeed resize
                          the Windows Chinese handwriting IME by dragging on
                          the right side of the character box.
2005/2/24-25 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:36407 Activity:high
2/24    How do people who use a pen to write in Arabic and Hebrew avoid
        smudging the letters as they write?  This seems like a design flaw.
        \_ I'm left handed and manage English just fine. Although when learning
           Persian (also right to left), I did like the fact that there was
           less smear potential.
           \_ I'm amazed that my totally random post was replied to by a
              lefty who's studied Persian.  Go motd!
              \_ Yeah.  Sometimes I think we need to step back and truly
                 appreciate the utility of the motd.
        \_ When I was little I would end up with the side of my hand totally
           filthy with graphite.  Now I don't have problems except with
           particularly slow drying ink. Now that I think about it, my hand
           position when writing looks a little contorted compared to most
           peoples'.  So I guess that's how I avoid smudging.  -lefty
        \_ I don't have preferences in terms of right or left hands.  So,
           when I start to learn how to write Chinese, I choose to write with
           left hand for this particular reason.
           \_ Does your handwriting look different from right-handed people's?
              My brother's starting to write Chinese, and he keeps complaining
              that the characters don't look right when he writes them with his
              left (preferred) hand.
           \_ huh?  I thought Chinese is written left to right in PRC,
              and it's top to bottom, then right to left, (so you get
              more drying time) in Taiwan.  Even people in Taiwan
              go left to right when writing in horizontal rows as
              opposed to traditional vertical rows.  In fact, I have
              a friend who is a lefty but writes Chinese with right
              hand, because Chinese is more easily written with right
              hand, as each character is written diagonally from top
              left corner to bottom right corner.
              \_ Pick up any Chinese book, and it's top to bottom, right to
                 left.  That's why the cover page is on the bottom of the
                 book or the binding to the right, depending on your
                 perspective.  And, yes, smudging was an issue when I learned
                 to write with the brush (or whatever it's called in English).
                 Though caligraphy was done on a very porous and therefore
                 quick-absorbing paper, and that ameliorates the problem
                 \_ In calligraphy, isn't your hand and arm not supposed
                    to be resting on the paper irregardless?
                    \_ Yep.  The correct way to hold the pen has your hand
                       and wrist elevated above the paper.  However, one still
                       has to account for jacket sleeves or just incorrect
              \_ Chinese has been traditionally written top to bottom then
                 right to left for thousands of years.  It was the PRC who
                 imported English-style writing to Chinese, together with
                 English characters for phonetics.  Taiwan sticks with the
                 the traditional way of writing and phonetics.
                 the traditional way of writing and phonetics.  -- Hong Kong
                 \_ I am aware of that.  I don't mind top to bottom but
                    why right to left (column wise)?  It's inconsistent
                    with the top-left to bottom-right manner where
                    each character is written.  - tainan taiwanese
                    \_ Good point.  I have no idea.  -- Hong Kong Chinese
              \_ Haven't you seen when the 1.2 billion people in PRC clap their
                 hands, they clap their left hands over their right hands?
                 They are all left handed.  -- troll
              \_ Well, traditionally, left-handed kids are "trained" out of
                 their tendency to use their left hand.  After all, the left
                 hand is the hand sinister.
2005/2/22 [Reference/Languages] UID:36360 Activity:very high
2/21    Do alumnis get email account from Cal these days?  Used to
        have  What's the status now?
        \_ You can get an account at <DEAD><DEAD>
        \_ "Alumni" is already plural.  Kids these days.
           \_ We've been through this fucking song and dance like fifty
              times already. Nobody cares. Even the fucking Romans didn't
              speak like they wrote.
              \_ Woah, where do we get these audio recordings from
                 ancient Roman times?
                 \_ If that was supposed to be a joke, it's not funny.
                    If you really don't know anything about the
                    development of Latin into modern day Romance languages
                    then I'd suggest you look it up on Wikipidedia.
                    You can also google the term "vulgar latin"
                    In addition, there are plenty of terms we use today
                    derived from latin which are incorrect, such as
                    we commonly say "the data" when "data" is plural for
                    "datum," or in the obverse we say things like "virii",
                    which doesn't exist. The closest correct term for the
                    plural of "virus" is "viruses". Anyway, language is a
                    constantly moving target. How we spell things now is
                    as arbitrary as how we spell and say things in the future.
                    If your really want to be anal about it, the title of
                    \_ Forget Latin.  You can't seem to use basic English
                       correctly.  "If you're..." or "If you are...."
                       \_ Err... neither of those make grammatical sense.
                          I think that person simply meant to type "you."
                    the "Cal Alumni Association" is technically grammatically
                    incorrect, since it probably should read "The Cal Alumni's
                    Assocation." Anyway, modern forms have all but dropped
                    the possessive in things like Students Association, so
                    it's acceptable nowadays...
                    \_  Now, write that a hundred times.  If it's not done by
                        sunrise, I'll cut your balls off!
           \_ The pluralization of latin is not something everyone has
              studied even though everyone likes to throw around latin
              words to make themselves look smart. For those studying
              Italian, this whole alumn* bit is easy.
              alumnus - masculine sing.
              alumni - masc (or ambiguous) plural
              alumna - feminine sing.
              alumnae - feminine plural
              \_ While we're on the subject of pluralization, here's a
                 101 on Italian words people tend to get wrong.
                 - spaghetti (p), spaghetto (s)
                   \_ When would you ever need to refer to spaghetti in a
                      singular sense?
                      \_ There is a dry spaghetto stuck up your ass.
                         \_ It snapped and now there is spaghetti stuck up
                            your ass. Hey, Latin can be fun!
                            \_ This joke would work better with the zucchino.
                 - pizza (s), pizze (p)
                 - capuccino (s), capuccini (p)
                 - biscotti (p), biscotto (s)
                 - zucchini (p), zucchino (s)
                 \_ - not (p), important (s)
              \_ and alumnus?
                 \_ oops. corrected.
                 \_ <witty sarcasm deleted because I'm fascist like Bush>
                    \_ But what is the plural form of "fascist"?
                       \_ They're called Republicans.
2005/1/9-10 [Reference/Languages] UID:35621 Activity:low
1/9     How come some people say "su-na-mi" and some people say "ta-sa-mi"?
        What is the etymology of tsumani?
        \_ Google says it means "harbor wave" ("tsu nami"). I always called it
           a "tidal wave".
        \_ Some people get tripped up on having a word start with "ts." The
           word itself is Japanese from the combination of two kanji:
           tsu (or shin), Unicode 6d25, meaning "haven, port, harbor, ferry"
           nami (or ha), Unicode 6ce2, meaning "waves, billows"
           Some more info is available at the WWWJDIC (Google it), but you'll
           want to have Japanese character support.
        \_ Run "webster tsunami".
        \_ Never ever ever ever heard someone say 'ta-sa-mi'.
2005/1/6-7 [Reference/Languages] UID:35569 Activity:low
1/6     Is 'pekid' (pee-kid) a word?  I remember it meaning pale or unhealthy
        looking, but I can't find it in any dictionaries.  Is it a 'real' word
        or just some dialect I've been exposed to?
        \_ 'peaked' -niloc
        \- also pique
        \_ pallid?
        Pronunciation: 'pa-l&d
        Function: adjective
        Etymology: Latin pallidus -- more at PALE
        1 : deficient in color : WAN <a pallid countenance>
        2 : lacking sparkle or liveliness : DULL <a pallid entertainment>
2005/1/3-4 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:35527 Activity:high
1/3     The Jaime Kennedy show is COOL! You should've seen Penelope
        Cruz's face when Jaime (pretending to be a reporter) asked her
        if she was a Mexican, and when she said she was Spaniard,
        he asked "What is that? Is that like an European Mexican?"
        \_ Hahahaha, I can imagine...
        \_ Jaime Kennedy, the great latin entertainer? perhaps you mean Jamie.
           \_ "The great latin entertainer?  Is that like an entertainer that
              speaks Latin?"
        \_ Oh the hilarity!
2004/11/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Languages] UID:35066 Activity:high
11/24   Hispanic and Latino: which term(s) are politically correct?
        \_ Both are, but they refer to different things.
           \_ So a Hispanic is someone with spanish ancestry and
              a latino is someone who lives in a latin american country?
              I'm confused. Please elucidate.
        \_ I can tell you spic is not.
           \_ Yes, the preferred term is 'wetback'
        \_ similar questions: Latino vs. Chicano: What's the diff?
        \_ chicano = mexican
        \_ Both refer to the same thing, the guy who replied to you is
           wrong. Latino is more PC west of the mississippi, hisapnic
           on the East Coast. Dunno why, but that is just the way
           it is.
           \_ Uhm, no.  Hispanic is someone of Spanish descent.  Latino is
              someone from latin america.
              \_ So the only difference between these two overlapping
                 groups is Brazlians, who you claim can be called Latino,
                 and Spaniards, who you claim can be called Hispanic. Right?
                 Personally, I think you are wrong on both counts, but I
                 will ask my Brazilian and Spanish friends what they think.
                 Do you believe that Latin Americans of 100% native background
                 cannot be referred to as Hispanic? They are not of Spanish
                 descent, afterall.
                 \_ Well gosh, maybe my 30+ years as a Hispanic male have led
                    me wrong, what with having extended spanish speaking
                    family etc.  Not to mention my relatives that are still
                    living in mexico....   Hispanic is a very general term,
                    what with the Spaniards having conquered half the freaking
                    new world.  Latino is a subgroup within the domain of
                    Hispanicity; it's an ethnic grouping in a cultural sense
                    more than a racial one.  As for 100% native background
                    people, I have no idea how they group themselves.
                 \_ Well gosh, maybe my 30+ years as a Hispanic male have
                    led me wrong, what with having extended spanish
                    speaking family etc, not to mention my relatives that
                    are still living in Mexico....  Hispanic is a general
                    term, what with the Spaniards having conquered half the
                    freaking New World.  Technically, Latino is a subgroup,
                    though it only really covers Central and South America;
                    it's an ethnic grouping in a cultural sense more than a
                    racial one, but I suspect most Latinos would resent the
                    application of the Hispanic label.  Chicano is the term
                    for an American from Mexico, though I doubt a Mexican
                    living in Mexico would refer to himself as 'Chicano'.
                    As for someone of 100% Native American background in a
                    Spanish speaking country, I have no idea how they group
                    themselves.  In Argentina I suspect they'd group themselves
                    as 'rebels' and in Venezuela as 'normal' -- but now I'm
                    just being silly.
                    \_ Hmmm, why would people in South America refer to
                       themselves as "Latinos"? I thought they always
                       considerd themselves either as South Americans
                       or as people from their own country. In fact, I've
                       never heard someone from South American refer
                       to themselves as "latino" or "hispanic". I think
                       that these terms were produced by the U.S. to
                       create a false "race" of people who didn't speak
                       english but were for all practical purposes white
                       with a bit of mestizo mixed in. In fact, I've never
                       heard of anyone in Mexico refer to themselves as
                       "Latino" or "Hispanic." The only people who use
                       these terms are people in the U.S.
                       \_ *sigh*  The original question was 'which is more PC'
                          and the proper answer has *NOTHING* to do with the
                          damn Mississippi.  I've tried to explain what the
                          terms mean (not whether everyone accepts in all
                          geographical locations).  Good luck.
                          \_ Well, it's pretty apparent to me that the terms
                             mean essentially the same thing. Trying to say
                             that one term artificially means A and another
                             term artificially means B doesn't mean that
                             what you say is correct. Since they're both
                             essentially artificial constructs to denote
                             people originating from people south of the
                             people originating from south of the
                             border they're both as "pc" as you are going
                             to get. One may as well argue whether chicken
                             should be called poultry or when exactly a
                             stream becomes a river. Completely a nonsenical
                             \_ I would argue that this whole thread is a
                                nonsensical discussion because pc language
                                is all bullshit anyway.  Language should be
                                used to communicate, not to express political
                                and academic trends.  If you want to know what
                                to call someone, you should just fucking ask
                                them.  I think the worst example of PC idiocy
                                I ever encountered was when I called some guys
                                "Chinese" because they were a bunch of Chinese
                                sailors on a Chinese boat who were hired in a
                                Chinese port, and an American told me I should
                                call them "Asian American."  Obviously the
                                person who said this knew there was nothing
                                *American* about these guys, but once someone
                                starts thinking in PC speak, the brain just
                                turns off.
                       \_ For the same reason a caucasian American of
                          European descent probably wouldn't refer to himself
                          as "white" or "Germanic".  All my friends who were
                          born in S. America identify themselves with their
                           countries.  -John
        \_ you're all wrong...
           in short: Hispanic - of Spanish heritage
                     Latin - from the geographic region of Latin America
                     Chicano - Mexican (sometimes meaning Mexican in the US)
           \_ Er?  I see at least 3 posters that are in agreement with you.
           \_ That dude is hardly an authoritative source.
2004/10/27 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:34378 Activity:very high
10/27   Why is the monarch of Monaco called a prince instead of a king?
        \_ Because it was a principality of France.  in 1512, the king of
           france recognized their independence, but the name of the office
           \_ Actually, in French and English it's 'Prince';  Germanic
              languages are a bit more precise, as they differentiate between
              'Prinz', or someone with some sort of claim to a royal throne,
              and 'Fuerst', which is kind of a generic sovereign ruler dude.
              So both Liechtenstein and Monaco have the latter, there's just
              a linguistic difference.  -John
              \_ I wonder if this is true of Italian also.  Machiavelli's
                 title certainly refers to the 'Fuerst' meaning of 'Prince.'
                   -- ilyas
                \_ ...and Principe in Spanish.  And for 100 points, what
                   do those all have in common, that German does not (besides
                   edible food)?  -John
                   \_ The English have edible food?
                      \_ Yes, it's called curry.
                   \_ Are you looking for the latin root? --scotsman
                   \_ If you mean Latin, that's not too hard.
                      \_ English is a Germanic language, not Latin.
                         \_ English takes bits from German, Latin, Greek, and
                            French (which is itself Latin-derived).
                            \_ Oh, I see.  I was just looking at
                         \_ Ding.  Why do you think they bothered with all
                            that empire shit, and then gave it up once they
                            had half of Asia and Afria immigrating?
                            \_ The East India Trading Company was just an
                               elaborate ruse to get better food for England?
                               It all makes so much sense now....
                               \_ Well, tea anyway.
2004/6/16 [Reference/Languages] UID:30834 Activity:high
6/16    What is the origin/meaning of the word "Ars", and why is it so
        popular among geeks (Ars Technica, Ars Digita, etc)?  Who first used
        it?  Who first used it contemporarily?
        \_ There was a mid 80s RPG called Ars Magica.  I always thought
           that had something to do with it.  (And yes I know Ars Magica is
           still around.)  -aspo
        \_ It's latin, it means "art or craft," it's been used ever since Latin
           was around (say around 2000+ years).
           \- off the top of my head see ovid ars amatoria. but i have the
              feeling i am missing one of the other big "ars" in the latin
              canon. --psb
                \_ ars republica
        \_ Arse!
2004/5/4 [Reference/Languages] UID:29983 Activity:nil
5/4     The discussion below got me thinking: is there a standardized system
        for phonetic transcription of Arabic words into English, like the
        pinyin system in Chinese?  It seems that most people do not adhere to
        it, whatever it is, but it would be nice to know.
2004/3/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:12621 Activity:high
3/11    Is Italian the closest language to Latin than other Romantic language?
        Isn't it weird that the once great empire has no spoken/written
        language today, but that other old languages from the old empires
        (Greek, Chinese, etc) still survive?
                \- helo you may wish to see ~psb/MOTD/LatinRomeGreece
        \_ Roman empire was a lot more multicultural than those other two...
           The various states spoke their native languages with Latin as
           a government/trade language.  Also, "Chinese" is not one language.
           Note that Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese were all once
           written with Chinese characters!
           \_ why isn't chinese one language?  the spoken form is different
              region to region, by written is essentially the same.
              \_Chinese is one language. It just has many dialects. Also note
                that Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese are essentially dialects
                from Chinese if you express them in Chinese text. In a sense,
                all Romance languages are merely dialects of latin. It's just
                that unlike Chinese there was no unification and the written
                text became fragmented. English itself has various dialects,
                but because of faster travel, radio, and television the dialects
                have tended to remain understandable instead of morphing into
                something very different. However, I have trouble sometimes
                with Punjabees speaking their version of English.
                \_ The Roman alphabet is phonetic.  If written
                   Chinese was phonetic, then there might be more of an
                   argument that the difference Chinese dialects were distinct
                   languages.  Likewise, if the differences in speaking the
                   different Romance languages were not reflected in the
                   written language, it might be easier to argue that they are
                   dialects of Latin rather than distinct lanugages.
                   \_ Modern written Vietnamese is phonetic. There is a
                      way of writing Vietnamese that uses Chinese characters,
                      but this is considered archaic now.
        \_ Italian is closer to latin than Old Greek is to Modern Greek.
        \_ 1.  Latin survives/freezes in some quarters (RCC).  2.  Romanian is
           quite close to Latin.  3.  Living languages evolve: modern chinese
           is quite different from ancient Chinese.  (I speak and write the
           former but have a (very) limited capability for the latter.)  Greeks
           told me similar things about their language.  Hebrew is today like
           what it was many years ago because it had been dead in between.
           4.  By western liguist's definition, different Chinese dialects
           can be considered as different languages (with some slightly
           different but overall similar grammar rules).  Some Chinese consider
           spanish, french, and italian as different dialects of the same
           language used to be known as latin.  5.  There is a distinction
           between the spoken language (the tongue) and its representation
           in terms of writing.  6.  Japanese and Korean are NOT dialects
           of Chinese.  They are probably in a totaly different linguistic
           family although the details are not yet understood.They borrowed
           Chinese character and many chinese words (along with their old
           pronunciation) when they decided they should have a system of
           writing their language - they developed writing much later.
           However, the 2 koreas banned the use of Chinese characters in late
           last century when they go nationalistic.  7.  I don't know whether
           \_ I'm not sure what you mean here.  While true that, in the
              north Chinese characters are more or less banned, and they
              are trying to get away from using Chinese based words, this
              is not at all true in the south.  You can see pleanty of
              Chinese characters in the south, and most people's names
              are written in Chinese.  60% of the vocabulary is chinese
              based.  Chinese has not be "banned."  Now it HAS falled out
              of use, because chinese characters are a terrible way to
              write Korean.  Korean is not a chinese language.  The
              grammar is not chinese, and 40% of the words are pure
              Korean, and can't be reliably WRITTEN in chinese.  Korean
              and Japanese are Altaic languages with a butt-load of
              borrowed chinese vocabulary.
              \_ I have been told by a american professor specialising in the
                 2 koreas that Chinese characters have been banned from use
                 in literature and koreans can no longer read their own classic
                 literature directly (i.e. w/o translation) because they were
                 all written in Chinese (as Principia was written in Latin).
                 I knew (and wrote) that Korean language is completely
                 different from Chinese.  However, that it and Japanese
                 are really from the Altaic group is not firmly extablished
                 (as say Sanskrit and Latin came from the same family).
                 Plus the japanese always claim they have nothing to do with
                 korean, although I never believed that.
           Vietnamese is in the same linguistic family as Chinese but their
           current writing system was developed by the french.  8.  The eastern
           roman empire used greek.  9.  The roman empire was not "more"
           multicultural than the other empires of similar size.
2003/10/27 [Reference/Languages] UID:10804 Activity:low
10/27   Jesus actor struck by lightning
        \_ So was the director or someone like that.  And?  This is going to
           be one of the most hyped yet least watched movies in a long time.
           Everything is in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, or some third language
           I can't remember right now, with no subtitles, voice over, etc.
           It's going to be a huge box office bomb.
           \_ it's being released subtitled
           \_ Are you saying you're not fluent in spoken Aramaic?  Look,
              not everyone is a stupid and ignorant as you are.
              \_ Nice one, good flame.
                 \_ What's amazing is that there is a flame below only
                    slightly less absurd than mine that is not apparently
           \_ Someone on the set has been struck by lightning twice. If you
              can't see the irony of being struck by lightning multiple
              times while making a controversial film about the death of
              Jesus, I weep for you.
              \_ I for one appreciated it.
              \_ A lot of motd people are seriously irony impaired.
                 \_ ^irony^ -jon
           \_ Those Romans spoke a crazy language called Latin.  You may have
              heard of it.  And if you don't know the story, it's pretty easy to
              brush up on it.  It covers about 12 hours in the life of Christ.
              That's less than 20 pages in the Bible if you want to brush up on
              the storyline. -emarkp
                \_ the new yorker had an interesting piece on the upcoming
                   movie release, here is a FREE REPUBLIC !!!!!!!!!!!
                   reposting of the article:
          - danh
           \_ I think the original idea of using Aramaic and Latin without
              subtitles was awesome!  I wish they had stuck to their guns on
              this. -- ilyas
              \_ I'll bet you loved Quest For Fire.
                 \_ What now? -- ilyas
2003/9/22-23 [Reference/Languages] UID:10274 Activity:nil
9/21    Random acronym pronunciation poll:  How would you go about
        pronouncing the Mozilla XML user interface markup language
        "zooole" as in Ghostbusters    .
        \_ Dear god.  Tell me you're joking.  ZUUL.
           \_ What's he doing in my refrigerator?
              \_  "Oh my god!"
                  "You see it?"
                  "Look at all that junk food!  You actually eat that?"
        \_ Are you the keymaster?
                \_ I am the gatekeeper.
        \_ Marshmellows for everyone!
2003/7/10-11 [Reference/Languages] UID:28990 Activity:high
7/9     Hey you russian lurkers, I'm curious about the cyrillic language.
        Back in the soviet days, the USSR imposed cyrillic on everybody.
        I'm wondering how many of the former soviet states have their own
        language.  Written and spoken of course.  Does Ukraine have their
        own language?  I know Serbia uses cyrillic also.  Any other country?
        And since the breakup, are people going back to their native language?
        \_ Racist!
           \_ This is such a controversial thread. I don't understand how the
              anonymous self-appointed nazy motd censors haven't deleted it yet.
              \_ That's "Nazi", dimwit.  Don't you kids learn *anything* about
                 the most basic parts of 20th century history anymore?  I
                 *know* you're not getting any civics lessons.
        \_ cyrillic is not a language.  it's a script.  most former soviet
           states have their own languages.  some use cyrillic or a variant
           thereof (like ukraine) and some do not.
           \_ at best, it's an alphabet.  We use a modern day Latin alphabet.
              We don't speak Latin.
              \_ I speak Latin.  Ok well no but I knew a girl who was a
                 Latin major.
        \_ Every soviet republic has its own language.  Most soviet schools
           mandated you learn: (1) russian, (2) your republic's language,
           (3) some 'foreign' language, usually English, but sometimes
           German, French, or some other.  Yay soviet education.  Not all
           languages are based on Cyrillic, usually only Slav ones.  Some
           are even based on Latin script.  As for your last question, I
           don't know about other republics, but Ukraine is definitely going
           nationalistic, and using Ukrainian as the official language for
           everything.  -- ilyas
                \_ Ah the Roman effect. When the empire collapsed everyone
                   ditched Roman and went nationalistic.
                   \_ And why not?  Why keep the language and culture of the
2003/7/7-8 [Reference/Languages] UID:28951 Activity:low
7/7     Are there any Latin-American countries besides Brazil whose official
        language is Portuguese?  I vaguely remember there were some but I can't
        recall now.  Thanks.
        \_ STFW.
        \_ No.  Google for 'Treaty of Tordesdillas'.  Angola and Mozambique,
           as well as Macao, all use Portuguese.  -John
           \_ Of course!  The Treaty of Tordesdillas!  I think BH talked about
              that once over vodkas and pot stickers in between force fed
              sessions on the perfectness of OO.
2003/6/30 [Reference/Languages] UID:28865 Activity:high
6/29    What does Mutatis mutandis mean (from Economist)
                - latin rookie
        \_ dict "mutatis mutandis"
        \_ google is your friend
           "The phrase Mutatis Mutandis is Latin and means "that
           having been changed which had to be changed" or more
           commonly, 'with the necessary changes.'"
           \- Helo, one reason the E'ist rules is stuff like this:
     ... it's a great title, the latin
              is more "obscure" than mutatis mutandis and you dont
              really have any context to figure it out.
              I suppose that violates ORWELL'42, but "Video meliora
              proboque, deteriora sequor.".
              Mors est vita hominis sine Economist.
              \_ fucking post the excerpt.  economist is paysite
              \_ god youre an idiot, psb.
           \_ Hello, all use of obscure Latin is ridiculous. oktnxbye
2003/4/17 [Reference/Languages] UID:28146 Activity:nil
4/16    Lots of languages are written from left to right.  Arabic, Hebrew, and
        several others are written from right to left, and Chinese, Mongolian
        and some other Asian languages are written in columns from top to
        bottom(or at least used to be.)  But what about from bottom to top?
        can anyone think of a written language that goes that way?
2002/12/19 [Reference/Languages] UID:26855 Activity:nil
12/19   What's the origin of "ad nauseum"? I can't remember since
        this corruption of it has been used so often.
        \- uh what are you asking? what it literally means in latin,
           how it is used in english or where it came from?
           literally "to <the point of> disgust. usually means "repetion
           to the point of being annoying" more "editorial" than ad
           infinitum. i think this is to generic to have an "origianlly
           used by juvenal" type answer. q.v. "ad libitum" --psb
           \_ ah yes, i was thinking about "ad infinitum". Is "nauseum"
              a real latin word? I thought it was just an attempt at
              humor.  ... hmm, dict says it's actually "ad nauseam"
              \- well it is latin and in turn greek. like nautical.
                 of course that is "real latin" unlike "sic ubi semper ubi"
                 which is a simple latin joke or "sic goli misdae hoc ipuc"
2002/11/6 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26438 Activity:very high
11/5    What's the right pronunciation of Ngyuen? Gwen? New-Yen?
        \_ You can't make that sound without practice. Nyen is close.
        \_ You can't make that sound without practice. Nwin is close.
           \_ Ok, can a Vietnamese native speaker record a correct
              pronunciation (.wav or something) and post it in /csua/tmp?
              Curious people want to know...
           \_ I've always pronounced it closer to new-wen.
              \_ And your first language was what?
              \_ It is definitately only one syllable, no matter how you say it.
                 I think you mean Nguyen, right?
                 \_ bah, the first guy was right Nwin is how you say it
                    \_ I once knew a girl with that name who insisted
                       it was pronounced "nu-yin".
                       \_ that's cuz you she didn't want you in her pants
                    \_ I searched Yahoo and found both Nguyen and Ngyuen.  Are
                       they equivalent?  Or are they both correct but different
                       last names?
        \_ Yeah and what about Ng? Is that "ing"? If so why not spell it that
           way in the goddam first place? For that matter why would someone
           write a name "Hsiao", I mean it sure wasn't written that way in
           China so why not just write it phonetically?
        \_ The name is Nguyen.  It is the most common Vietnamese last
           name, much more common than Smith is here, and was the name of
           a series of emperors, the Nguyen Dynasty.  "Nguyen" is the
           Anglisized spelling.  In Vietnamese, there's a circumflex (^)
           over the "e" and a tilde (~) over the circumflex.  I've never
           heard of Ngyuen before.  That doesn't mean it's not a name, but
           I'm sure the one you're thinking of is Nguyen.

           The reason that they don't spell it "ing" in the goddamn first
           place is that it's not pronounced that way.  It's actually
           pronounced "ng", so a better question would be: why don't you
           pronounce it that way in the goddamn first place?  Actually, it
           can't be pronounced using English, only approximated (the
           alphabet is based on French, btw).  There are three reasons for

           1.  The "Ng" at the beginning.  We actually have this sound in
           English, but it only appears at the end of words.  For some
           reason it's really hard for us native English speakers to say
           it at the beginning of a word.  It's pronounced like the _end_
           of "ing".  I taught myself to say it by saying "ring" and
           holding the "ng" part at the end, after the "i".

           2.  The tone.  In Vietnamese (and many other Asian languages)
           the meaning of a word depends on the tone you use when saying
           it.  This can't really be described in writing, so get a
           Vietnamese person to pronounce it for you.  It took me a while
           to even be able to hear tones in Vietnamese; they all sounded
           the same to me.  For Nguyen, it's kind of like starting your
           voice at a normal pitch at "Ng", making the pitch drop as you
           say the letters through "uy", and then making the pitch sharply
           rise as you say, "en".

           3.  The pacing.  In English, this word would be pronounced with
           two syllables: Nguy-en or maybe Ngu-yen.  However, in
           Vietnamese it's pronounced as one syllable.

           In my opinion, "gwin" (like Tony Gwynn) is the closest you can
           come in English, but even then it's not that close to the
           Vietnamese pronounciation.  - mikeym
        \_ \Win\
2002/2/24 [Reference/Languages] UID:23961 Activity:very high
2/23    Is it really so hard to make tense and singular/plural matches in
        English?  I'm not asking for perfect A+ book standard English, but how
        about getting the bare basics down?  This is the easier part of the
        language.  When in doubt, plural words get an extra "s" on the end.
        You'll be right 99% of the time.  Try it.  You'll like it.
                --Friends Of The "-s" Committee
        \_ Plural NOUNS get an extra "s" at the end.  Plural VERBS use an
           opposite system.  Also, typical style rules state that you
           shouldn't capitalize minor words such as "Of" or "The" in titles.
           \_ Not to mention the taboo against using caps for any
           \_ You're making it too complicated.  They just need to add an "s"
              when they're unsure and they'll do fine.  As for "typical" style
              rules, it's my damned committee, I can call it anything I want.
              \_ by your instructions, people will add an "s" when they're
                 unsure and get either the subject right and the verb wrong
                 or the subject wrong and the verb right.
                 \_ It's better than they're doing now.
        \_ whether it's hard depends on where you come from.  Some say
           Chinese is impossible to learn, but many grow up knowning only
           Chinese.  The more relevant question is what the variation of
           the tense adds to the language.  Why make the extract effort
           of saying "he runs" instead of "he run".
           \_ go learn Esperanto, loser
              \_ Don't be a pedant. The above comment is quite correct within
                 natural language. Furthermore, Esperanto isn't exactly trivial
                 in all regards, and becomes progressively less so as your
                 native language goes further from the Romance, Germanic, and
                 Slavic groups. Kaj se vi volas dauxrigi cxi diskuto
                 esperante, bonvolu cxu tio faru. Mi komprenos vin. -alexf
              \_ Esperanto: an artificial language created for the purpose of
                 making it equally hard for everyone to learn it.  A sort of
                 equal-opportunity for everyone to be equally ill educated and
                 unable to intelligently communicate with others.
2001/12/14 [Reference/Languages] UID:23242 Activity:very high
12/13   viva la whatever -jon
        \_ "vive" not "viva"
            \_ Says who?
                From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:
                Viva \Vi"va\, interj. [It.]
                Lit., (long) live; -- an exclamation expressing good will,
                well wishing, etc. -- n. The word viva, or a shout or sound
                made in uttering it.
            \_ Maybe he meant:
                Main Entry: qui vive
                Pronunciation: kE-'vEv
                Function: noun
                Etymology: French qui-vive, from qui vive? long live who?,
                challenge of a French sentry
                Date: 1726
                : ALERT, LOOKOUT -- used in the phrase on the qui vive
                \_ Maybe it just doesn't fucking matter and both of you
                   find something more important to worry about like Felicity's
                   hair style or something.
                   \_ Maybe you should.
                        \_ Hahahhaa wow a stinging rebuke!  hahahahah.  Can
                           you also chant the "sticks and stones" rhyme?
        \_ Viva la more, viva la more, viva la company.
2001/11/11-12 [Reference/Languages] UID:22999 Activity:high
11/10   When working in lab, are there things people do that make you
        really go crazy and make it difficult for you to work?  Do you
        do anything about it?
        \_ Like what? Is it something that just pisses you off? Move to
           another machine/room. Something that's likely to piss others off
           as well? Ask them to stop doing it.
        \_ Go home and work on your PC from there.
           \_ Indeed.  I did this in 1996 with a 486 w 16MB ram.  Installed
              Linux and did all my upper-division projects from there. Compiles
              were tons faster than on the HP's, and I didn't have to deal with
              the crap in the labs.
              \_ 'crap in the labs' was sometimes literal... one time someone
                  brought in their dog who left a smelly little present for
                  us hardworking undergrads in the corner of 273 soda. It's
                  a great thing to think about when I get frustrated at work
                  and start getting nostalgic for the good old days when I
                  was back in school.
        \_ Yeah when the English majors would take over 4 or 5 machines to
           play netrek the night before a big project was due and made lots of
           little whiney noises when asked to leave.  while (1) fork();
        \_ Loud conversations, especially in foriegn languages, annoyed me
           (if you're discussing the project, do it in English so other people
            can join in - if not, talk quietly so you don't disturb everyone
            else).  -alum
            \_ Just because you can't spell in English or speak anything
               ..."foreign languages"
            \_ Some people communicate better in non-English languages.
               If you are dying to join in, just ask.  Most people would be
               willing to accommodate your disability.
                        \_ Do you speak Korean, Japanese, Russian, and
                           Vietnamese?  If not, then relying on English
                           to be a common language is not a disability,
                           but a requirement.
                           \_ If you don't speak a language, you have a
                              disability in that language.  That English
                              is a useful common language does not mean
                              knowing another language is not useful and
                              an "ability".
From WordNet (r) 1.6 [wn]:

         n : the condition of being unable to perform as a consequence of
                    physical or mental unfitness [syn: {disablement}, {handicap}
                \_ Sure, but the first use of "disability" above is a wordplay
                   and a slight, which actually showed mastery of the language.
                   and a slight, which actually shows mastery of the language.

                \_ I'll help you: either 1) talk quietly or 2) talk in English
                   so you're being helpful but 3) don't babble LOUDLY in some
                   foreign language: it's annoying.  That help you sort it out?
                   \_ No it doesn't.  People talking loudly is annoying, no
                      matter what language they are speaking.  What exactly is
                      your problem with non-English languages?!
                        \_ It sounds like noise, and nothing else. At least loud
                           English conversation makes sense. Loud foreign
                           conversations don't. -not the guy from above
                           \_ For me, noise is better than loud
                              conversations which I understand but are
                              not interested in.
                              \_ Yes but the topic was what we each find really
                                 annoying in the labs.  Some find foreigners
                                 speaking loudly annoying, some find really
                                 loud English annoying, but I think just about
                                 everyone finds really loud people in the lab
                                 \_ Yes, but the guy above is essentially
                                 annoying at all times.
                                 \_ Yes, but the person above is essentially
                                    suggesting that English-speaking persons
                                    can talk loudly and annoyingly but non-
                                    English-speaking persons should keep
                                    \_ Maybe for them it's true.
2001/8/20 [Reference/Languages] UID:22182 Activity:high
8/20    Are the time notations "AM" and "PM" acronyms or abbreviations of
        something?  -- yuen
        \_ AM = "ante meridian", PM = "post meridian"--before/after mid-day.
           Look at  -John
           \_ Not quite; it's "meridiem" (Latin singular accusative of
              "meridianus", a 3rd decl noun meaning "midday"). Of course,
              "ante" and "post" mean before and after. -alexf
                \_ American Heritage dictionary accepts "antemeridian" as
                   correct, although your etymology is accurate.  And you're
                   a miserable nitpicking pedant, to boot.  -John
                   \_ I was correcting a mostly-correct answer (hence the
                      "quite"). I was not flaming, and I would rather not
                      get flamed either. Also, take a careful look at the
                      definition of "antemeridian" -- this is a (rare) English
                      word meaning "Of or belonging to the forenoon or
                      `morning.'" according to the OED. According to AHD4,
                      it arose from a Latin noun(?) closely related to the
                      phrase referenced above ("antemeridianus"), but is
                      technically not the same thing, and not the common
                      expansion of "a.m.", according to WordNet, OED, and
                      AHD4. -alexf
              \_ Thanks!
2001/8/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:22022 Activity:moderate
8/6     is there an easy way to tell whether an indian name or a chinese name
        is male or female?
        \_ Its is not easy to associate indian names with either male or female.
           Even people with indian backgrounds have a hard time with this.
        \_ For most Chinese name it's easy to tell if you can see the Chinese
           characters.  It's harder if you have the English phonetics, because
           1) many Chinese characters "translates" to the same phonetics,
           and 2) you don't know which dialect it came from.  If you can post
           the phonetics and if it's Cantonese, maybe I can guess.
        \_ Jack off now, ask questions later.
2001/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:21015 Activity:nil
4/17    Did you know that asking "how to XYZ" (instead of "how do you do XYZ")
        is grammatically correct in Russian?                    -misha
           \_ Hey, sign with your login name, imposter! -- real misha.
                \_ 'misha' sounds like a girl's name.  Only that you're
                   not a girl you're a big ugly guy.  Why do you have
                   such a cute name.
        \_ Interesting but thankfully this isn't Russia and most of us are
           not fluent in Russian.  When the Russians emerge from the stone
           age, get a grip on their economy, wipe out their mafia, stop selling
           mass destruction technologies to terrorists and make some minimal
           effort cleaning up the communist era environmental mess, I'll take
           a tour with my english/russian guidebook in hand.
           \_ huh? That entire paragraph would be just as valid if you
              replaced "Russia" with "America", and "communist era" with
              "unrestrained capitalist era".With the possible removal
              of that crack about the stone age.
              \_ Unrestrained capitalism is good, young troll.
              \_ you have much to learn, seeker. the wise sodan would have
                 simply implemented said replacement to greater effect.
              \_ BZZZZT!  You have much to learn, Seeker.  The wise Sodan would
                 have known wtf he was talking about before spewing the typical
                 ignorant lefist rhetoric about the US being the same as all
                 other countries.  I'll grant that Russian material sciences
                 are ahead of the rest of the world, the rest is still in the
                 70's if it wasn't stolen.  So you're actually wrong twice in
                 a sense.  You get an "A for effort" to keep your self esteem
                 up though and to increase diversity.  We need stupid people
                 at Cal, too.
                 \_ You get a "D" for debate talent. There is virtually
                    nothing you said specific to the text preceeding.
        \_ Lots of weird sentence fragment stuff is grammatically correct
           in Russian.  Russian is efficient.  It doesn't have stupid useless
           articles and verbs that do not serve any function.
           \_ we should learn to speak in lisp
              \_ FOL!  FOL!  FOL is the STANDARD!  Language.
        \_ As is in Chinese.
        \_ no, but if you're in need of more efficient usages, try:
                "how is x done?
                "how do I X?"
        \_ then the questions asked on the motd should be in Russian or
        \_ how do you say it in latin?  (there, was that so hard?)
           \_ psb timer has now been started
           \_ owhay?
              \_ did you too attempt to find a translator and came up with
                 nothing but pig latin converters?
                 \_ You suck.
              \_ Partha, Partha, wherefore art thou, Partha?
                 \_ Because his parents named him that.
                    \_ not why, where. "The bard" misused the language.
                       \_ Young troll, you must learn never to contradict
                          dict directly.  Merely twist what is there, ever
                          so slightly.
                       \_ you're a moron.
2000/11/25-27 [Reference/Languages] UID:19908 Activity:low
11/24   Wow, are up with the times:

        Main Entry:     1fuck
        Pronunciation:  'f&k
        Function:       verb
        Etymology:      akin to Dutch fokken to breed (cattle), Swedish
                        dialect fokka to copulate
        Date:   1503
        intransitive senses
        1 usually obscene : COPULATE -- sometimes used in the present
        participle as a m eaningless intensive 2 usually vulgar : MESS
        3 -- used with with transitive senses 1 usually obscene : to
        engage in coitus with -- sometimes used interjectionally with
        an object (as a personal or reflexive pronoun) to express
        anger, contempt , or disgust 2 usually vulgar : to deal with
        unfairly or harshly : CHEAT, SCREW
        \_ formatting corrected. -motd format !god
        \_ Isn't it a acronym for Fornication Under Consent of King?
           \_ Also "fornicate under carnal knowledge" and a long list of
              \_ see below
           \_ that's folk etymology. a.k.a. myths. the earliest known
              usage, contrary to webster, is 1308 [OED], which very
              distinctively marks it as a verb and places it in
              context that makes any acronym-based derivation unlikely
              (the postulated acronym source just can't be old
              enough). also note cognates (NOT borrowed) in 2 north
              germanic languages; chances are this word has been
              around since mid-first millenium AD at the very least.  -alexf
1998/12/31 [Reference/Languages, Computer/SW/Graphics] UID:15154 Activity:high
12/29   What is the "proper" pronunciation of "gif"? Is it with a hard "g"
        or a soft "g" (like the letter j)? I always pronounced it like
        "jif" but all my co-workers say it with a hard "g", which I find a
        bit annoying.
        \_ soft g.  (It's a peanut butter AND a graphics format...)
        \_ I pronounce it with a hard g, probably by association with
           the hard g in the beginning of 'graphics', but this is by
           no means a phonetic rule for acronyms. (I tend not to like
           the idea of 'proper' pronunciations, anyway; who's to say
           what's proper, after all? Perhaps you should ask the people
           at CompuServe who popularized it?) -brg
        \_ i have been told the people who came up with it like the
           soft g, but i don't believe that pics should be associated
           with a processed peanut butter, so i use the hard g anyway,
           and ignore the dorks who complain.  -lila
2022/08/07 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Reference:Languages: