Reference History WW2 Japan - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Reference:History:WW2:Japan:
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
 
WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ
http://csua.com/feed/
2017/11/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/18   

2013/8/5-9/14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:54724 Activity:nil
8/5     "Communist Party makes a comeback ... in Japan"
        http://news.yahoo.com/communist-party-makes-comeback-japan-134436281.html
        \_ They never went away in Japan. When I lived there, the MP from my city
           was a Communist (back in the early 90s). --erikred
        \_ They never went away in Japan. When I lived there, the MP from my
           city was a Communist (back in the early 90s). --erikred
2012/7/25-10/17 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:54444 Activity:nil
7/25    http://www.quora.com/Japan/What-facts-about-Japan-do-foreigners-not-believe-until-they-come-to-Japan
        Japan rules!
        \_ Fifteen years ago I worked there for seven months.  I miss Japan!
           (I'm Chinese immigrant.)  More facts:
           - Besides cold drinks, vending machines also carry hot drinks like
             hot tea and corn soup.  And they are actually hot instead of warm.
             \_ Even more surprising, the Coca Cola Corporation, dba Georgia
                Coffee, has had hot-coffee-in-a-can vending machines in Japan
                for decades now. If they'd brought their coffee over here,
                they could have beaten Starbucks to the punch. --erikred
           - Tokyo and nearby cities like Yokohama are indeed crowded and
             fast-paced, but there are also towns like Kakegawa in Shizuoka
             Prefecture that are less dense and slow-paced.  Streets are not
             that noisy.  Peolple live in big houses park their cars in front.
             that noisy.  People live in big houses park their cars in front.
             And they drive to work and park in big parking lots that are not
             nearly full.  It's like the suburbs and business parks here.
           - If you have a group meeting involving your boss and other people,
             and your boss falls asleep, it's actually a good sign.  It means
             (s)he thinks the meeting is progressing well and (s)he no longer
             needs to pay attention.  So that's a sign of approval from the
             boss.
           - When some people go to convenient stores, they leave their cars
             outside the stores, doors unlocked, keys inside, and engine
             running.  I saw this every other day or so in both cities and
             small towns.  And the drivers look like normal salarymen, not
             mafia-looking people who might think nobody dare stealing their
             cars.
             \_ That's not too different than say, Denmark with homogenous
                small population with a smaller variance in income.
                http://www.quora.com/Japan/What-facts-about-Japan-do-foreigners-not-believe-until-they-come-to-Japan
                \_ "if you lose personal items (even phones/wallets), they
                    are almost always turned into the lost and found or nearest
                    police station"
                   \_ I have lost my wallet four times in America and had it
                      returned every time. Only once was the money even gone.
                   \_ The two things that are not safe are your umbrella and
                      your bicycle; on a rainy day, any umbrella in the bucket
                      near the door becomes fair game. As for bikes, I had one
                      stolen at a train station-- even though I'd locked it, and
                      even though it was a mama-chari (ugly old single-gear with
                      a basket on the front), and I've watched drunks ride off
                      on any bike they could manage not to fall off of. --e-red
           - There is a kind of sashimi where they take a live fish, cut out
             all the flesh off one side of the fish except the head and the
             tail, leaving the whole head, tail, skeleton, and the other side
             of the body intact.  Then they cut the flesh into sashimi, and
             put it back on the fish body.  They they serve it to the table.
             When you eat the sashimi, the fish is still not dead yet.  Its
             mouth and tail still move a little.  I tried it once at a
             restaurant in the Kawasaki area called Bikkuri Sushi.
             Interestingly, "bikkuri" means "surprise".
           - It's not uncommon to see drunk people in suits passing out on the
             streets.  I was told that that they'll just wake up the next
             morning unharmed with their briefcases intact.
             \_ and they just go back to work like that? don't they stink?
           - There are many normal-looking women walking around solo at night.
             They don't seem to worry about getting mugged or raped.
             \_ that's not what I heard from my inlaw who was stationed there
           - (I only heard this one, but don't know if it's true.)  Even mafias
             use swords and other non-firearms in gang battles, because gun
             control is very tight.
           About this: "When riding the trains ate (sic) at night I found the
           drunk salarymen to be overly friendly and talkative. They often
           wanted to take us gaijins to their homes."  I found the contrary.
           I made some very good Japanese friends during my stay, yet none
           invited me to their homes.  I also heard from Chinese expats there
           that Japanese people treat their homes very private and don't
           usually invite co-workers to their homes.
        \_ Really interesting article, and mostly matches my six years
           living there. Some other things:
           -- Baseball is HUGE in Japan, and high school baseball champion-
              ships will cause entire offices to put aside work to watch it.
           -- Many Japanese do not "get" sumo; the younger generation tends
              to think of the idea of two fat dudes wrestling to be very
              disturbing. Also, just as with samurai, ninjas, and geisha,
              you are very unlikely to run into a sumo rikishi on the
              train.
           -- Not all of the students are well-behaved or studious. Some
              are downright obnoxious, if not violent.
           -- If you get lost in a city in Japan, look for a Koban (a
              kind of mini police station), and the officers will be
              happy (mostly) to help you out.
           -- Lost in Translation is achingly funny and on-target, at
              least in terms of being jetlagged in Tokyo.
              \_ Scarlett Johansson was so hot in that movie.
           -erikred
2017/11/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/18   

2010/8/19-9/7 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:53928 Activity:nil
8/19    I have business in Osaka. I would like to see Kyoto and,
        preferably, Tokyo. However, I only have about 2-3 days to myself.
        I have never been to Japan. I can fly into Osaka and out of Tokyo,
        if I want. I was thinking of flying into Osaka and then taking the
        train to Tokyo before flying back from Tokyo to the USA with the
        goal of a full day in Kyoto and a full day in Tokyo in between. Is this
        realistic? Should I focus on just one of Tokyo/Kyoto? The idea is
        that I check them out in order to figure out what I want to see
        next time when I have more time. I know I am trying to compress a lot
        into a short period, but I am an expert at that. I just don't sleep.
        I'd appreciate advice.
        \_ You certainly can see a few things in each place.  While I was
           there, I chatted with a lady who was doing what you're thinking of
           while on a business trip.  Depending on your interests, I suspect
           even if you spend the full 2-3 days in the Kansai area, you might
           want to come back anyways.
        \_ Yes, you can do this. You're going to be beat, but it sounds like
           you're okay with that. Make sure to hit Kinkakuji in Kyoto.
           This site may help with the trains:
           http://www.seat61.com/Japan.htm#Train%20times
2009/10/21-11/3 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:53460 Activity:low
10/20   The original Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR is going down in price
        thanks to the new version II that's coming out. It's pretty good
        on DX (since it cuts off softness on edges that exist on FX
        format). Should I pull the trigger?
        \_ Is it made in Thailand?  Just curious.
           \_ No. All of the gold-rim (Nikon Pro) lenses are made in Japan.
              The rest of the consusmer cameras and lenses are made in
              Thailand. Ditto with red-rim (Canon Pro) lenses that are
              made in Japan. Actually, Canon XSi is made in Japan and
              it's a pretty plastic-feeling consumer grade camera.
              Go figure.
              \_ My car was made in Japan and it seems "Made in Japan"
                 doesn't mean much these days.
                 \_ The only thing that matters to me is that it is
                    not made in U.S.A. I don't enjoy going to repair
                    shops all the time like my patriotic dad.
                 \_ Is it a Nissan or Isuzu?
                    \_ Lexus
2009/5/22-25 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:53034 Activity:nil
5/21    Do the English word "random" and the Japanese work "randori" have the
        same etymology?
        \_ "Randori" = "laundry".... so no.  Unless you mean the word for
          sparring, in which case... still no.  "Ran" is the same "ran" in
          Kurosawa's movie "Ran" which is "war" or "chaos/state of nature."
          The english Random is from Frankish "rant" which is "a running"
                        --brain
          \_ impressive! How do you know so much Japanese?
                \_ He's a brain.  Duh.
                \_ I have a very basic understanding of how conversational
                   Japanese works, and a more than basic skill with kanji
                   dictionaries!        --brain
          \_ But "random" and "chaos" are similar.  -- OP
                \_ they are in English... "Ran" is really like "a revolt"
                   or "the chaos that is around you when the government has
                   collapsed."  So not really like "random."  If you are
                   interested, check wwwjdic for the exact kanji readings;
                   because I am feeling especially charitable today, I will
                   give you the exact wikipedia URL where you can copy the
                   kanji and put it into the translate field:
                   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurosawa
                   http://www.edrdg.org/cgi-bin/wwwjdic/wwwjdic?9T
                   btw if you are up for an adventure, go ask this same
                   question at the linguistics dept. at UCB and see what
                   they say...                  --brain
2009/3/4-6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:52674 Activity:moderate
3/4     Apparently reading Japanese is hard, even for the Japanese:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090304/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_reading_japanese
        \_ Well, yeah.  Japan has the most BS writing system ever developed.
           It's managed to get all the detriments of both pictoral and phonetic
           writing, with none of the benefits of either.  This for a language
           that, phonetically, can fit within a subset of the latin characters.
           \_ Thank you. I was going to post something like this, but figured
              I'd get skewered what with the Asianphiles on soda. Sometimes you
              have to disregard culture and admit someone else came up with a
              better idea. This is true of chopsticks, too, but I know that
              will be an even more controversial issue than the language.
              \_ Ah, the Asianphiles are a problem in this case.  We have a
              \_ Ah, the Asianphiles are not a problem in this case.  We have a
                 couple of pro-chinese and a pro-Korea guy, but China and Korea
                 hate Japan.  So, no problem there.
              \_ you can do much more with chopsticks than a fork.  You are a twit.
                 \_ true, chopsticks>>fork, but they aren't so good for cutting
                    fork+knife is a great combo. Chopsticks are good for
                    noodles, salad, small pieces of meat, etc, but not so
                    good for an uncut piece of steak or a half chicken.
                        \_ further evidence of the superiority of chopsticks.
                           designed to support a society where everyone carries
                           blades intended to kill people.  The craftsmanship
                           of food is taken more seriously as evreything is
                           is cut into pieces designed for eating.  Surely you
                           must know this.  Barbarian culture is not something
                           to be proud of.
                           \_ So Chinaman, are you pro-China unification as well?
                           \_ Chopsticks kind of lost their appeal to me, after
                              I was eating with a native-born Chinese guy who
                              said to me after I asked him why he asked for
                              a fork in a Chinese restauraunt, "Why would I
                              want to use chopsticks?  A fork is better and
                              easier."  And most of the time, it is.
                  \_ Actually, chopsticks are very limiting. While you have
                     more precise control, you can pretty much only eat
                     one item at a time. If I want to have avocado,
                     lettuce, and a slice of tomato then I can do that
                     with my fork but with chopsticks I have to hunt for
                     each item one at a time. Also, chopsticks are
                     terrible for foods like pies and cakes. There are
                     probably other examples, too. I think there are some
                     things forks can do that chopsticks cannot do and
                     vice-versa, but overall the fork is a more versatile
                     tool unless your food consists solely of little bitty
                     pieces of pre-cut food that you want to eat individually.
                     \_ I nominate this for "most pointless MOTD debate of
                        all time."  -tom
                        \_ Surely the Great Camera Lens Debate of 2008/2009
                           is more pointless.
           \_ There was a time when Japanese uses Chinese Han character 80% of
              the time.  I thought it's at least better than the mix-mush they
              got today.  Then again, I am biased because I am a Chinese
              myself.  And just give you an idea how relatively recent has
              Japanese abandoned Chinese characters... I was able to read and
              comprehend World War 2 Japanese machinegun manual, and be able
              read and comprehend 90% of news paper headlines back in the day.
              \_ and now, you can't read a new Japanese machinegun manual?
                 \_ and that is due to percentage of Han Characters in modern
                    Japanese writing is a lot smaller... something like less
                    than 20%.
2008/9/9-12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:51114 Activity:nil
9/9     Are Hanna and Ike Japanese names?
        \_ Yes, as in the well known first Japanese American 5 star general
           and US President, Ike Eisenhower.
           \_ I thought Hana is flower and Ike is pond.
2008/8/12-17 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:50853 Activity:nil
8/12    Tojo argued to keep fighting, even after the atomic bombs
        http://csua.org/u/m2j
        \_ cf. Herbert Bix's "Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan"
2008/6/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:50108 Activity:nil
6/1     "Japanese woman caught living in man's closet"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080530/ap_on_re_as/japan_closet_woman
        How is this possible!?  The man never looked into his closet in a year?
        \_ Apparently she found a really, really good hiding place.  Thing is,
           if she just slept with him she could probably have continued
           staying there forever.
2008/5/19-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:50005 Activity:nil
5/19    HIROHITO's secret hideout tunnel and nerve center from WW2, now
        showing on HISTORY. Banzai!!!                   -Banzai John
        \_ http://www.cafepress.com/buy/dildos/-/pd_80674402?CMP=KNC-F-ALL
        \_ Possibly also of interest to you:
           http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?fl20030301a1.htm
2008/5/16 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:49971 Activity:moderate
5/15    i may post some lame stuff but the underage japanese youtube
        video of girl staring at camera is pretty stupid
        \_ She's not even japanese
           \_ Yes she is japanese, 1/2, you FUCKING DUMB ASS.
              Your Japanese is horrible and your brain has been classified
              as: narrow minded. Now go back to school and expand your mind.
2008/4/1-6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Computer/HW/IO] UID:49633 Activity:nil
4/1     http://www.cubo.cc (SFW)
        \_ That is pretty awesome, but why are her eyes so bloodshot?
           \_ Jesus! Do you really want to look at her closely enough to find
              out?!? Keep moving that mouse before she _notices_ you!
        \_ She looks Japanese.
           \_ 1/4 of the Asians have hepatitis. She probably has it.
              Yellow jaundice skin, bloody eyes. Typical hep.
2008/3/13-17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:49443 Activity:nil
3/12    Japanese Yen now trading at 100.28 to 1 USD
        \_ When I was in Japan 11 years ago, it fluctuated between 110 and 120.
        \_ It was around 116 when I was there in August. On the plus side,
           this means I've made about 16% on the 5000 Yen that I never got
           to exchanging back for dollars.
           \_ 16% over eleven years?  I'd guess that with inflation you lost
              money.
2008/2/21-25 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:49206 Activity:nil
2/21    Any Japanese here?  Does Chikako Aoyama make any X-rated adult video?
        I can only find R-rated ones on the net.  Thanks.
        \_ Don't ask crap like that on the motd.  Take it to http://4chan.org.
           \_ That's useful.  Thx.  -- OP
        \_ key word: usually
2007/10/27-11/1 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2] UID:48464 Activity:nil
10/27   Why are there so many WW2 games? 1/2 of the first person shooter
        games are based in/around WW2 theatres. What happened to WW1?
        Why are there no trench war, gas mask, chem gas games
        \_ There are a few realistic WW1 Dreamcast games for the Japanese
           market that involve driving your tank somewhere for hours
           and hours staring at a tiny box on the screen representing your
           limited view of the outside world if you're a tanker...
           then suddenly you die and you have no idea what
           hit you, the end.  hours of enjoyment
        \_ Because getting killed from dysentery or other diseases, rat bites,
           shell shock, and getting mowed down by emplaced machine gun nests
           as you run across a large, open, muddy field in yet another
           pointless charge, your corpse left hanging in barbed wire as you
           bleed out just doesn't sound all that much fun to most people.
           WW1 was way up there on stupidly fought wars.  Go read up on the
           French officer's revolt and how that ended.
           \_ Yeah, and besides that the war was mostly pointless. Compared
              with WW2, WW1 had no real cause or glory to it at all. The
              propaganda was lame and the USA was a minor player overall.
              WW2 and the 50's were the golden age of the USA.
        \_ At a guess, because the "really cool" weapons start surfacing in
           WW2. Let's see: automatic weapons vs. mustard gas, which is sexier?
           \_ Nukes are either boring game enders or so unimpressive in most
              games you're better off not bothering.  Mustard gas could have
              some cool in-game effects.  Decreased LOS, slower movement,
              semi-random movement, damage over time, wind can cause it to
              drift to other places including back over your own lines (which
              really happened in WWI), gravity causing the gas to flow down
              slopes, etc.  Nukes?  BOOM!  Stuff is dead.  Whatever.  Zzzzz,
              IMHO.
              \_ "Atomic" != "Automatic"
                 \_ Oops.  Back to Reading 1A for me.  Anyway, I'd still
                    prefer mustard gas over playing rat-tat-tat.wav.
        \_ I really miss the old PC game "Total Annihilation".  Is Supreme
           Commander any good?
           \_ I didn't really like it that much.  SC is TA-like, but not TA.
              The game is all about building out the tech 4 super units as
              fast as possible then stomping the enemy base with them before
              they do the same to you.  The tech 1 and most tech 2 units are
              unworthy of production.  They get swept aside in combat.  The
              tech 3 are ok.  You'll probably want a bunch to help your tech 4
              fight off their tech 4, otherwise they're mostly useless too.
2007/10/27-11/1 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:48460 Activity:very high
10/26   Except for Hiroshima/Nagasaki, is it actually possible to bomb
        people into submission? It seemed to failed with the Londoners,
        Germans, Vietnamese, Afghanistan, etc.
        \_ worked all right with the Germans.  bombing them from the air
           isnt the only thing that let to their defeat but it helped some.
           \_ Most historians don't really agree with you here. Maybe it
              reduced their tank and plane production slightly, which
              helped shorten the war slightly. It did not effect the
              "will to fight."
              \_ I don't understand this new fad of declaring unsavory tactics
                 like torture or civilian bombing 'ineffective.'  Of course
                 they are effective.  Have you read "why the allies won?"
                 There is a whole chapter on bombing.  We don't live in a
                 convenient world where all immoral choices can be rejected
                 on amoral grounds. -- ilyas
                 on amoral grounds.  Are you willing to backup your
                 'most historians' claim or this the old 'argument by
                 non-existence consensus?'  -- ilyas
                 non-existent consensus?'  -- ilyas
                              \- i think declaring "unsavory tactics" off
                                 limits hugely helps the US, because the
                                 US has a massive advantage in any battle
                                 that involves "fighting fair" where they
                                 define fair.
                 \_ I am sad when I agree with ilyas.  I have to agree that
                    making the civilian population sad and feaful that the RAF
                    is going to drop a ton of explosive on their head is going
                    to reduce their 'will to fight' and 'will to build
                    tank' and 'will to put up with Hitler'
                   \_ The civilian population had a will to fight in Feb 1945?
                      How were they supposed to stop it? No, the purpose
                      might be to attempt to shock the leadership. But that
                      relies on there being a rational leadership.
                      \_ In Csarist Russia, the loses on the front led to the
                         government being overthrown. In France, the troops
                         mutinied late in WWI. Nothing like this happened in
                         Germany (or Japan) due to the allied bombing campaigns.
                         German workers continued to work under horrific
                         conditions and followed orders all the way to the
                         surrender. German soldiers fought to the end in Berlin.
                         \_ It is not possible for 'business to remain as usual'
                            when your life is put under daily threat.
                              -- ilyas
                         \_ If the Germans hadn't sent VI LENIN back to Russia,
                            the revolution wouldn't have had legs. Along
                            similar lines, the folks who could have led
                            revolutions in Germany and Japan either failed
                            due to bad timing and lack of assurances or didn't
                            ever have the forces necessary to force the issue,
                            respectively.
                   \_ See Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II#Effectiveness
                      on wikipedia. It is certainly open for debate, but
                      German production of tanks, plane and guns increased
                      during 1944, the year of the heaviest bombing. It did
                      have a substantial effect on oil production.
                      \_ The question is whether production would have been
                         higher had there been no bombing. -- ilyas
                         \_ No the question is more subtle and harder to
                            answer: could the materiel and manpower deployed
                            to the strategic bombing campaign been more
                            usefully deployed elsewhere? Like for instance
                            tactical bombing and air control, which
                            undoubtedly had a huge effect, or a larger number
                            of tanks, which Britain was woefully short of.
                            \_ The only allied power with good tanks was the
                               USSR.
                            \_ I agree that it's not at all clear whether
                               strategic bombing was the best use of resources.
                               However, the part I objected to was the claim
                               that strategic bombing was 'ineffective.'
                                 -- ilyas
                               Incidentally more tank production for non-USSR
                               allied countries would have been a terrible idea
                                -- Britain and US had terrible tanks.  -- ilyas
                               \_ If the allies had taken a course of action
                                  that would have made them win faster but
                                  instead used strategic bombing as a tactic,
                                  which wasted men, materiel and focus, thereby
                                  making the war last longer, then I think this
                                  means that strategic bombing was not only
                                  ineffective, but counterproductive. But I
                                  guess at this point we are quibbling over
                                  definitions. The one thing that strategic
                                  bombing might have accomplished it to force
                                  the Luftwaffte fighter force to sally,
                                  allowing us to shoot them down and gain air
                                  superiority. But there were easier and less
                                  roundabout ways to do this. Do you think that
                                  unarmoured troops in jeeps were more effective
                                  than tankers in Shermans? American tanks
                                  were not as bad as their reputation, they
                                  just weren't as good as the best German tanks.
                                  Very few Tigers and Panthers were ever made.
                                  Off the top of my head, I think we made 10x
                                  Shermans for every Panz-V and Panz-VI, while
                                  losses were something like 2x in tank battles.
                                  \_ I bet most German tank losses were due to
                                     aircraft (allies had exceptional planes,
                                     and lots of them).  Shermans couldn't kill
                                     Panthers/Tigers.  Shells would bounce off,
                                     you see. -- ilyas
                                     aircraft (the allies had lots of planes,
                                     and they were excellent).  Shermans
                                     couldn't kill Tigers/Panthers.  Shells
                                     would bounce off, you see.  A better way
                                     for the allies to spend resources on tanks
                                     would be to copy Russian tanks.  Germans
                                     did!  -- ilyas
                 \_ tank: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfZaySq9c8I&NR=1
                                     \_ It depends on which Sherman and from
                                        which angle. The US tanks got
                                        slaughtered early on, because they were
                                        told they could stand toe to toe with
                                        the Panthers, which they could not.
                                        We learned to attack in swarms and take
                                        some losses in order to get a side or
                                        rear shot. Also, we got uparmored pretty
                                        quickly with some better guns and AP
                                        rounds (HEAT, I think) that gave us
                                        a fighting chance. I wonder what
                                        percentage of tanks kills were from the
                                        air? Quite a few, no dobut. Even more
                                        important was the fact that the Panzers
                                        were always short of ammo and fuel, due
                                        to supply line inderdiction.
        \_ Works for the type of people who are very submissive (e.g. those
           who are willing to do silly things like suicide for their
           Emperor, perform Bukake, and draw porn manga). The British,
           Germans, Vietnamese and Afghans on the other hand are in
           general very proud of themselves and/or are very defiant
           thus they'd never surrender.
           \_ E_TOOSHORT
           \_ yes because Japan is not proud of itself.  Just ask anyone
              in East Asia.
        \_ We bombed the greater Tokyo area too.
           \_ We firebombed 67 cities in Japan:
              http://www.ditext.com/japan/napalm.html
              See also McNamara in Fog of War. It's arguable that Nagasaki
              and Hiroshima were more for demonstrating US possession of
              atomic bombs to the Soviets. -!pp
              \_ McNamura?  BTW this name sounds almost Japanese.
        \_ Nuke and Pave!
        \_ We bombed the Serbs, and they gave up their campaign of genocide
           in Kosovo.
           \_ So that Albanians could continue their campaign of genocide in
              Kosovo.
              \_ *shrug* op asked for examples of bombing ppl into submission.
                 Mission Accomplished.
        \_ Libya. Kadaffi.
           \_ ...what did we convince Colonel K to do via bombing?
        \_ Arguably the Japanese are better off for having submitted.  The
           destruction of their country stopped, they didn't have a violent
           continuing occupation which threw their country back into a
           dark age, etc.
           \_ In addition their submission allowed them to concentrate their
              resources on the development of kick ass products like Wii,
              Prius, and Bukake/Urabon/Hentai
        \_ Ask the residents of Dresden.
           \_ We'll need to live in mobile floating fortresses for all
              to live in to deal with extreme weather and flooding due
              to global warming.  We'll also need to cut about 1/2 the
              surplus population due to reduced fishery output and
              farm production.
              \_ Are you volunteering to be excess population?
           \_ I guess dead is a form of submission, but it didn't really
              slow down the Germans much, if any at all.
              \_ dont give motd armchair historian any ideas.  Islam
                 means 'submission to god'
              \_ They stopped producing weapons in Dresden.
                 \_ Dresden did not have any munitions factories.
                    \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
                       \_ Did you even read this? It says that there were
                          no munition factories in Dresden. I guess there were
                          a couple of glass factories.
              \_ Because it wasn't militarily relevant. But the Germans were
                 already slowed down. Dresden was February 1945. VE day is
                 May 8. "Bomb people into submission"... the people can't
                 submit even if they want to. The military forces have to
                 submit.
                 \_ hindsight is laser like in its precision.  we probably
                    thought some industrial capacity in Dresden helped Germany
                    with their war effort.  without Dresden you woulndt
                    get great american literature like Cat's Cradle
        \_ we bombed the americans and now they are cowardly talking of retreat
           from Iraq.  -AQ
           \_ "Somalia" is the word you're looking for.
              \_ somalia wasn't a bombing so much as shooting a few soldiers.
                 Westerners have no stomach for war. It shall be their undoing!
                 \_ same basic concept, no?   kill a few folks so the rest stop
                    fighting.
           \_ lets not forget Lebanon.
              \_ Too bad Bush doesn't have the sense of Reagan.
                 \_ Because that worked out really well in Lebanon and had the
                    effect of discouraging our enemies around the world while
                    strengthening our allies' spines.  Or not.  Don't they
                    teach history anymore?
                    \_ Of possible interest: Richard Marcinko reported in
                       Rogue Warrior that he suggested instituting a radio
                       pulse on the frequency the suicide bombers liked to use
                       to blow up their bombers prematurely, but this was
                       rejected as being likely to result in civilian
                       casualties.
                    \_ Ah yes, it is much better for America to waste $2T
                       and get beaten anyway, like Our Heroic Leader Bush
                       has done. Too bad they don't teach Conservatives
                       the principle of limited government anymore.
        \_ I don't understand why anyone listens or respects Bush in any
           way.  he's poured a couple of trillion down a fucking rathole.
           He should be Shunned in DC.  Entire blocks of people too disgusted
           to look at his face.
           \- in an odd coincidence:
              http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=an09LjQPgiVY
2007/9/10-13 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:47992 Activity:nil
9/10    Pretty funny review of book by 'former kamikaze pilot'
        http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=10133
        \_      "They were so obsessed with making the perfect death-scene
                that they even expected us Americans to be "impressed" with
                their mass suicide. That's exactly what Nagatsuka says
                about the thousands of Japanese civvies who walked into the
                ocean or jumped off cliffs after Saipan fell: "The
                Americans...should have been moved by the terrifying yet
                dignified spectacle of death...." Well, uh, no, Mister
                Nagatsuka. The Americans thought you were sick freaks. Some
                things don't translate as well as Top Ramen."
        \_ How can he be a former kamikaze?  He never got past training or
           he survived and got fished out of the water by the Americans he
           was trying to kill?
           \_ This is dealt with in the review.
              \_ What?  You want me to actually read a link?  Read?  I don't
                 have time for that, I'm too busy watching youtube videos.
2007/9/5-9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:47900 Activity:nil
9/5     Japan takes FPS Horror to whole new level.  NSFW (alhtough no nudity)
        http://csua.org/u/jg2
        \_ I can shoot farther than that ...
           \_ Can you shoot that much?
              \_ No
2007/8/31-9/3 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Computer/HW/IO] UID:47848 Activity:nil
8/31    More Japanese Jubblies mouse pads, and an instructive sign for
        those who don't get it. (Pretty much SFW)
        http://csua.org/u/jf5
2007/8/6-22 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:47544 Activity:nil
8/6     happy hiroshima day!
        \_ HERE COMES THE BOOM
        \_ they so deserve it.
2007/7/20-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:47360 Activity:kinda low
7/20    Anyone here ever work with a Japanese organization? I find it very
        frustrating! At least with the firm we deal with, although I am
        sure they are very bright based on their achievements, they are
        constantly making small mistakes. Their first course of action is
        always to blame us first! Not once has the error ever been on our
        side once tracked down and yet they always blame us first! And we
        can't tell them that because it would be disrespectful to do so.
        In fact, we have to tell our senior managers to tell their senior
        managers because direct assignment of blame (i.e. your guys
        screwed up) is a no-no, too.  I am frustrated with their way of
        doing business and I find it adversarial, which wouldn't be so bad
        if they weren't the ones always screwing things up and then trying
        to call us on it.
        \_ why give them respect if they don't desever it. let them
           commit sepaku
        \_ Make sure you learn the phrase "Gama Su!, Gama Su!"
           Seriously, this is a free market. You don't have to put up with
           bullshit like this. Switch to another provider/partner. That
           is the beauty of our efficient free market economy.
        \_ Leave messages around saying "You will be crushed by China"
        \_ Which Japanese comapny is that?
        \_ This almost seems like a troll to me, as it appears that the op
           has had to deal with only one firm.  But regardless: isn't this
           how every company/group is?  Playing the passing-the-blame game?
           \_ Not if it's clearly never our problem. If they spent time
              diagnosing it before quickly calling us right away they
              would find the problem themselves. That is, they always find
              the problem themselves, but not before calling us to blame
              us first. It's the cultural thing that bugs me. We can't
              say "Not our problem. Check out your end." because it is
              disrespectful, but they seem to have no problem telling us
              "Please check things out on your end." My management got
              mad at me because their management was upset that we told
              them that the problem was theirs. I was told "You are 100%
              correct, but you can't do that in Japan. You have to tell
              your senior, senior management (way far out of the loop) who
              will relay it to their senior management and then back down
              to people at your level." Is that true or is that a load of crap?
              If that's the way they do business it's a wonder they can
              accomplish anything. There's also a doublestandard, because
              their engineers have no problems telling us the problem must
              be ours even when it never is.
              \_ If they blame you directly, blame them directly. Who cares
                 about the consequences. Why is it you that has to adapt
                 to their customs and not the other way around?
              \_ I hope with the global economy we have, that this is not a
                 widespread case and this company/group is just trying to use
                 the "stupid Americans who don't understand our culture" as
                 an unfair leverage to themselves.  I only know one person
                 who works with a Japanese company on regular basis, and the
                 only complaint he has is how much he is forced to drink
                 whenever he has to have a meeting with them.  Of course,
                 he is Asian, so they may treat him differently.  It's also
                 possible that your manager or his/her manager IS a "stupid
                 American..." and blowing things out of proportion.  Also,
                 is this venture an equal partner venture, or is one company
                 benefitting more from the other?  I am not a Japanese, but
                 I wouldn't expect to have to worry about culture gap/respect
                 issue to come into play at engineer level.  Maybe the guy
                 you "offended" is sleeping with his company exec's daughter
                 or something.  But I still wouldn't blanket the statement
                 to cover the Japanese as a whole if you've only dealt with
                 this one firm.
                 \_ The Japanese are benefitting by this arrangement far
                    more than we are. Also, the reason I used a blanket
                    statement is that other people at work (my management)
                    who deal with the Japanese claim that it's endemic to
                    Japanese culture. I have no experience otherwise,
                    hence my question if anyone else has experience with
                    working with the Japanese.
        \_ If you think that is bad, get Sun, EMC and Veritas in one room
           together and get them to agree who is responsible for an
           outage...
           \_ Or Oracle, Sun, and Veritas.
        \_ Just to be clear: this is not endemic to all Japanese companies,
           nor is it unique to Japanese companies. Unless this company is a
           make-or-break client, screw cultural sensitivity and call them on
           it. --erikred
2007/6/27-29 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47086 Activity:moderate
6/27    Did you know the Russian army had the largest number of female
        snipers in WW2? Many of them were super hot too!
        \_ UGh I actually read the horrible book that Jude Law movie
           about Russian snipers was based on.   I'm sure the Soviet
           propaganda masters told everyone the female snipers were hot
           and the men were manly.
        \_ Yeah yeah I watched this last week too:
           http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=194094
           But I don't remember it saying the female snipers were hot.
           \_ They didn't say it but the pictures of those women in their
              teens and early 20s... SUPER HOT RUSSIAN BABES!!!
              \_ Were any of them large brested?
                 \_ motd boob guy where do you live.  im gonna beat you
           \_ I don't image the history channel would have described them as
              hot, no. I assume the op saw pictures in the show?
           \_ I saw the same show & pictures.  No hotties.  You're confused.
        \_ Were they hotter than Russian tennis players?
           http://www.mfwweb.com/tennis/IW05
2007/6/25-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Recreation/Humor] UID:47065 Activity:low
6/26    Japanese Tetris: http://www.glumbert.com/media/japtetris
        \_ Oh man this is )(#*$)# hilarious! Thanks for sharing the link
           \_ Seconded, very funny, thanks.  -John
        \_ Superb. Note that I'm 213cm tall. --erikred
2007/6/23-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:47047 Activity:moderate
6/23    In a technologically symmetrical war, why would historians (on
        the History Channel) say that taking over Okinawa exacted a heavy
        toll on the Americans? The total stat on the History Channel is:
        American deaths: 12,000
        Japanese deaths: 120,000
        This is a technologically symmetrical war, and the Japanese had
        the advantage of home-base and concealment. If this exacted a heavy
        toll on the Americans, then what do you call the Japanese defeat?
        \_ The estimated kill ratio of American vs. Vietcong was 1:10 to
           1:20. Many US generals were pissed off about the pullback since
           this kill ratio in the historical context is clearly a victory.
           \_ Kill ratios don't mean diddly squat when you are an occupying
              force.
              \_ kill ratio is everything. The better the ratio the more
                 likely the other side will see that it's pointless to
                 resist.
                 \_ Which is why time and time again occupying forces have
                    insanely high kill ratios and the other side doesn't
                    stop fighting.  If you get your panties in a "WE WERE
                    WINNING DAMNIT" wad when someone mentions Vietnam,
                    then how about we talk about Soviet Afghanistan, or
                    France and Algeria, or Italy and Ethiopia, or Britian
                    and India.  And so on.
                 \_ kill ratio is irrelevant if there is some arbitrary
                    threshold where political pressure at home of the enemy
                    gets them to withdraw.  What was the kill ratio in somolia,
                    vs how many US deaths did it take us to tuck tail and return
                    home?  How about rwanda?  A few belgian deaths and the UN
                    went home while the genocide raged...
        \_ American public tolerance for war:
           bool tolerateWar(int enemyDeaths, int americanDeaths) {
             float ratio = americanDeaths / enemyDeaths;
             if (year <= 1950) return (ratio <= 1/10)
             else if (year <= 1970) return (ratio <= 1/100)
             else if (year <= 1990) return (ratio <= 1/1000)
             else if (year <= 2000) return (ratio <= 1/10000)
             else if (year <= 3000) return (ratio <= 1/10000000);
           }
           \_ There should be a "hatredOfEnemy" factor in there somewhere.
              I think part of the problem now and in Vietnam is we didn't
              really buy into the enemy being our enemy. I.e. "why are we
              there". For example if we were actively defending ourselves
              or an unambiguous ally from aggression then I think we would
              "tolerate" huge numbers of deaths.
        \- i dont know the context of where you are coming from, but
           in addition to comparing the capabilities of the (two) sides,
           the offensive/defensive balance changes over time, e.g.
           e.g. development of the tank in ww2 was a change from trenches
           + fixed machine guns. coastal batteries, mine fields are defensives,
           airpower, offensive. so the casualities cant simply be compared
           1:1. btw, the off/def approach is more of an approach rather than
           a strict category. see e.g. http://tinyurl.com/2ysgtu
        \_ You can't compare Japanese expectations and tolerance of casualties
           at the time to that of the U.S.  Furthermore, while the Japanese
           had the advantages you mention, the U.S. had complete air
           superiority, 100% reinforcement flexibility (as opposed to 0% for
           the Japanese), and most importantly, were able to set the conditions
           for battle.  The Japanese could not maneuver outside of their
           fortifications without being cut down by vastly superior firepower,
           and could only react to U.S. initiative.   The 12k U.S. deaths are
           the result of the advantages the Japanese had, while the overall
           balance of casualties shows how far in favor of the U.S. the
           conditions for battle were.  Lastly I wouldn't go so far as to say
           that, by 1945, the Americans and Japanese were fighting anything
           even close to a technologically symmetrical war.  -John
           \_ You forgot another thing.   Ryukyu was an independent kingdom
              for more than 2000 years before being annexed by Japan in 1895.
              Japanese never really considered citizens in Ryukyu island
              (so called Okinawa) "real" Japanese anyway.  So, part of the
              reason for such high tolerance of casualties was because
              Japanese themselves were performing genocide on that island any
              way.  Aside from the fact that Ryukyu was this close to the
              Japanese main island, Japenese didn't really give a crap about
              people who lives there.
              \_ Good point -- nonetheless, the Japanese suffered 66,000
                 purely military casualties; the 140k or so civilians dead
                 were another thing entirely, as below poster correctly
                 points out.  At the same time, you may want to draw a
                 comparison with the battle of Saipan for comparisons on how
                 the Japanese viewed civilian casualties.  The IJN/IJA high
                 command was not terribly concerned with civilians, ethnic
                 Japanese or not.  -John
        \_ Since so many Japanese were using suicide bombing tactics at
           that time, I am not sure you can really call this battle
           symmetric.
        \_ Wikipedia has 12k US dead, 66K Japanese. If you count wounded
           it is more like 50k to 83k. Civilians really don't count.
2007/6/3-5 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:46843 Activity:nil
6/2     Ever since having okonomiyaki in Japan, I've been trying to find
        a place in the Bay Area that serves it. Does anyone know of any
        in the Silicon Valley?
        \- i dont really like that stuff, on the other hand it isnt
           very standarized, but you can look here for advisories in your
           area: http://tinyurl.com/2u2soc sounds like japantown/sf isnt
           what you are looking for.
        \_ There used to be a place in SV, but they closed. Benihana's
           stuff is fine for tourists but crap for anyone who's actually
           eaten okonomiyaki in Japan. Sorry, no luck. --erikred
        \_ I've frequented a okonomiyaki place for locals next to an NEC plant
           in Yokohamai a decade ago.  Very good.
2007/5/29-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:46784 Activity:nil
5/29    Miss Japan crowned Miss Universe:
        http://csua.org/u/isr
        Finally some recognition that the world has yellow fever too. -mrauser
        \_ She looks like Mary Tyler Moore.
2006/10/21-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:44900 Activity:nil
10/21   Any review on Clint Eastwood's yet another film about Iwojima?
        Does it say anything negative about the evil "Japs" and how
        glorious our fathers were?
        \_ The Fresh Air review made it sound more like a stark portrayal of
           the inanities of pro-war propaganda even in war-time.
        \_ You do realize this is actually a psuedo two-part movie. The other
           one is called Letters from Iwo Jima, telling the story from the
           Japanese side.
           http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0498380
           \_ Then how come none of the trailers or posters say anything
              about, "Part 1 of 2" or "The First Chapter in the Iwo Jima
              Saga" or something like that?
              \_ http://wwws.warnerbros.co.jp/iwojima-movies/trailer/large.html
                 The last few seconds does mention Letter from Iwo Jima as the
                 counterpart of this movie.  The three big Japanese characters
                 in the screen before is "Soshite" which means "and.  BTW I'm
                 surprised that Flags of our Fathers are showing in Japan.  I
                 thought people and the govt in Japan are very sensitive to
                 WWII issues.  -- !PP
           \_ I didn't know it's a two-sided movie(s).  I wasn't going to see
              Flags of our Fathers, but now I will.  I haven't seen a two-sided
              movie since Tora Tora Tora.  -- !OP
2006/9/20-22 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44468 Activity:high
9/20    The dumbest war:
        http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/20/turner.reut/index.html
        \_ Synopsis: Left wing nut billionaire Ted Turner thinks our
           righteous war on evil Saddam Hussein is as dumb as the Japanese
           bombing of Pearl Harbor and the German invasion of Russia.
           \_ The invisible hand thinks you're the nut.  --the invisible hand
        \_ did you know 47% of the Americans think Pearl Harbor is somewhere
           in Japan?
           \_ How many of those 47% also voted for GWB, believe in
              intelligent design, and that Saddam Hussein shipped all of
              the WMD to Syria before we attacked Iraq?
           \_ The Japanese are smarter.  Most people in Japan know about
              Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and conveniently don't know about Pearl
              Harbor.
              \_ err... most people in Japan think China started the WW2
                 in the fareast and they think they are the victims of the war.
                 \_ No, they don't. Most Japanese think Japan started WW2 as
                    retaliation for unfair restrictions imposed on their
                    imperialist aspirations by the racist goverments of the US
                    and Europe. The idea that China started WW2 stems from the
                    South Manchuria Railway incident, when Japanese-sponsored
                    troops blew up a portion of the railway and blamed it on
                    the Chinese, then used that incident as an excuse to seize
                    power in southern Manchuria. Also, most Japanese know about
                    Pearl Harbor but believe that it was a surprise attack, not
                    a sneak attack, and that the Japanese ambassador attempted
                    to declare war before the attack was carried out but was
                    refused admission to the Oval Office; this is disputed by
                    evidence brought before the Congressional hearings after
                    the war. --erikred
                    \_ hmm... did you just agree with me that most Japanese
                       think China started the WW2?  by the way, they still
                       think Nanjing massacre was fabricated by the Chinese.
                       \_ No, I didn't. And no, they don't. They do, however,
                          think the Nanking massacre has been exagerrated.
        \_ I vote for Battle of Mogadishu as the dumbest battle.
           \_ As far as cockups go, sure, it's pretty high up there. As far as
              dumb battles go, though, the taking of Grenada outranks it.
              \_ Grenada?  For all the wars and battles throughout history you
                 chose a minor action on a small nearby island where only a few
                 dozen rounds were fired as dumber than Mogadishu?  Mogadishu
                 was insanely stupid.  How about these for worse: the first
                 non-attempt to take Faluja(sp), all of WWI, Hitler failing to
                 defend the right beaches in WWII even after the landings, the
                 Persian empire getting decimated in a single battle, putting
                 550+ marines in a barracks in a war zone and giving the gate
                 guards blanks, Israel's recent non-invasion of Lebanon where
                 they (like everyone else with a real airforce) made the
                 mistake of trying to use airpower to win a land war, the
                 second Intifada where Arafat decided it was better to kill
                 people than get 95% of what his people wanted, going in to
                 Korea with ridiculously poorly equiped troops (think hellish
                 winter with no winter jackets), retreating from Vietnam after
                 winning the war (Tet offensive was a catastrophic military
                 failure for the NV but looked great on US TV).  Grenada?  Get
                 real.
                 \_ Cite a non-biased source for your last Vietnam assertion,
                    please.
                    \_ I'm feeling lazy today so you get wikipedia instead of
                       a more hard core source but it says what I said:
                       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive
                       And in the context of "dumber than Mogadishu" I think
                       launching a multi front offensive along your militarily
                       superior's entire front and getting butchered falls
                       under "dumber than Mogadishu".  There was no way to
                       predict a smashing media success in the US that would
                       lead to political success, nor was that the plan on the
                       VC/NVA side.  No one on the North said, "I'll bet
                       getting our asses kicked would look great for us on US
                       TV".  -pp
                    \_ Yeah you had me there until your last Vietnam assertion.
                       I just don't think anyone wins guerilla wars without
                       killing everyone.
                       \_ It's pretty clear the Tet offensive was a
                          military disaster for the VC. Whether the US
                          could 'win' or not depends on what the
                          definition of 'win' is. Certainly, the US could
                          still maintain a military presence there (a la
                          Korea) if they really had wanted to. -not PP
                          \_ yep. the consensus is that the U.S. wins every
                             tactical engagement and by body count in
                             particular, but politics in the occupied
                             country wins the war.  For WW2, it was the
                             complete political capitulation of the Axis
                             powers.  For Gulf War 1, it was just a matter of
                             kicking out Saddam, and the Kuwait govt just got
                             back up.
                             \_ The US didn't lose to the VC.  The US lost to
                                Eddit Adam and his photo.  Adam was bribed by
                                the VC to publish the one-sided photo.  The
                                American public didn't see pictures from the
                                Massacre at Hue.
                 \_ See the part of the comment where pp agreed with your
                    assessment of Mogadishu as a cockup. As for dumb in terms
                    of why we were there, i.e., what a waste, Grenada beats
                    Mogadishu.
                    \_ Grenada was a quickie mob up operation to keep Cuba
                       from building up and taking over a small nearby,
                       harmless island otherwise unable to defend itself.
                       It was fast, it was successful, it wasn't a mess.
                       Mogadishu was what?  Pointless.  We had no reason to
                       be there.  It was a chaotic anarchic mess on a country,
                       there was tv crews standing on the beach filming the
                       marines amphibious landing(!!!), and the operation
                       itself (what the movie Blackhawk Down is about) which
                       left American dead to be dragged through the streets,
                       although technically successful in that they did
                       capture the local leaders they were looking for, was
                       poorly planned, under armed, cowboyish, and ultimately
                       a total failure.  BTW, a large chunk of the country is
                       now under control of AlQ types.  Grenada?  For small
                       and failed operations you should be talking about
                       destroying aspirin factories and camels with missile
                       strikes.
                       \_ Interesting. You seem to have a fixation on Clinton.
                          Why is that?
                          \_ If you have nothing to add or can't dispute what
                             I said then thanks for playing.
                             \_ Please, what's to dispute? We dropped most of
                                the Marine Corps on Grenada to disrupt a
                                poorly executed and ill-advised coup; we
                                sent the troops to Mogadishu with the aim of
                                preventing the destabilization of Somalia
                                (and we blew it, agreed). The hell do the
                                Clinton strikes on Sudan have to do with
                                anything apart from your feverish desire to
                                malign the Dems?
                                \_ In dispute is that Grenada was in any real
                                   way a screw up.  And if you'd been paying
                                   attention, you'd see I've covered a few
                                   thousand years of history on this thread,
                                   not "feverishly maligned" nor "fixated on"
                                   Clinton or the Dems.  Re-read the thread
                                   in context and stop looking for trouble
                                   where there isn't any; it's boring.  If you
                                   can explain how Clinton/Dems are in any
                                   way responsible for the fall of the ancient
                                   Persian empire or how I made it seem so,
                                   I'll eat my hat.
                                   \_ Grenada was not a screw up. It was,
                                      however, a waste of time and resources.
                                      Also, you're the one who brought up
                                      the Clinton strikes on Sudan, not me.
                                      \_ The thread is about battles dumber
                                         than Mogadishu.  Thanks for agreeing
                                         finally that Grenada isn't one of
                                         them.  As far as Clinton, yeah I also
                                         brought up 6+ other events all of
                                         which were before Clinton was in power
                                         or even born.  Not seeing the feverish
                                         fixation on Clinton.  I think you're
                                         just trolling now.
           \_ Bay of Pigs and the last 50 years of relations with Cuba were
              and are retarded and immoral.
        \_ "When Khrushchev at the U.N. took his shoe off and hit podium he was
           so mad, but he had a place to let off steam. If the U.N. hadn't been
           there, that would have been war right then."  What was he referring
           to?  Thx.
           \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev
              Search page for "shoe"
2006/8/2 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:43871 Activity:nil
08/05/1945      I predict Hiroshima will be toast tomorrow   -motd guru
2006/7/23-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Recreation/Food, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:43766 Activity:moderate
7/22    When a Japanese restaurant puts in words like sukiyaki, robato,
        and other exotic Japanese names what do they mean?
        \_ if that's exotic, stay in hoboken.
           \_ Why are you so mean? How is this question more stupid
              than the one below that says "What's the difference
              between sushi and sashimi?"
        \_ if this isn't a troll, ask the server
2006/7/17-19 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:43684 Activity:nil
7/17    Dutch to allow pedophile political party
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5187010.stm
        \_ Hmm, what's The Netherland's immigration policy for Americans?
           \_ ew.
        \_ So what?  Democracy isn't something you should be afraid of.
           \_ Having a pedophile party isn't democracy.  It is the
              institutionalizing of criminally aberrant behavior.
              \_ Only if anyone votes for them...  As soon as you say "some laws
                 shouldn't be democratically decided, ever" then you have to
                 have someone who _doesn't_ represent the people create them,
                 and that's trouble.  Of course pedophilia is abhorrent, this
                 isn't institutionalizing anything.  The US has a pot party,
                 that hasn't made pot legal.
                 \_ The US has a pot party.  The US also is leaning towards
                    making pot legal and has done so locally in many places.
                    Without a group pushing for the decriminalisation of
                    criminal acts, they will remain criminal.  With a group
                    pushing for legalising the acts, they will eventually
                    shift policy in that direction through back room bargaining
                    and vote swapping.  The only hope is that they never manage
                    to elect anyone.  Although if they do that alone says
                    the host country that they may be beyond hope anyway.
                 \_ Can the same argument be applied to communism?  A communist
                    party is illegal in the US.
                    \_ *sigh* http://www.cpusa.org
                       \_ Thanks!  (Not that I like communism.)  -- PP
                       \_ http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/511/#question18
                          "Aren't socialist countries anti-religion?"
                          "In China, ..., there are many religious
                          institutions, many millions who worship freely, many
                          churches that are growing. ..."
                          That says it all.  (But it's off topic.)
                    \_ Really?  I thought there was one.  Well, if that's true,
                       it probably happened during the 50's, the same time we
                       put God into the pledge, and did any number of other
                       stupid reactionary things.
                    \_ Uhh, no it isn't.
                    \_ IIRC, the United States is now one of the few countries
                       that still has a communist party.  We might be the only
                       multi-party country that has one.  I vaguely recall
                       something about all of them renaming themselves the
                       socialist party after the USSR fell but I'm too lazy
                       and apathetic to look it up.
                       \_ Japan still has a communist party. One of the Diet
                          reps from Kochi (the prefecture where I lived) was
                          Communist. --erikred
                       \_ PCI in Italy? Partito Comunista Italiano. Still
                          pretty big there.
                          \_ Ok so 3 of em.  I'm ok with that.
                             \_ Plus all the actual, well, communist countries,
                                plus France, England, Germany, India, and
                                pretty much every other countri I can
                                pretty much every other country I can
                                think of.  -John
                                \_ The communist countries aren't multi-party.
                                   I don't count Cuba, China, etc, which claim
                                   to be communist but are just dictatorships.
2006/7/16-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:43680 Activity:nil
7/16    Is it just me or it seems like all the Benihana chefs are
        non-Japanese? The last 3 I went to in the past 2 years were
        all Mexican chefs. What's up?
        \_ The Japanese all have white collar jobs.
                \_ Being a cook/chef doesn't count as a blue collar job.
        \_ Uh, what do you expect?  It's not like Benihana is considered
           a real Japanese restaurant anyway...
           \_ I went to the one in Monterey a few years ago b/c I had a gift
              cert.  I'm a sushi snob, and the sushi was actually surprisingly
              good.  (and reasonably, if not low- priced)
        \_ I went to the one in Burlingame a month ago.  All chefs there were
           Hispanics.  But then the restaurant first started in Tokyo by a
           Japanese.
           \_ ...whose daughter appeared in 2 Fast 2 Furious:
              http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1226817
2006/6/12-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:43362 Activity:nil
6/12    Has anyone heard of Mangajin magazine? It was around from 1991
        to 1997-ish, and had Japanese manga with detailed translations,
        plus various articles on Japanese culture. I'm looking for old
        issues (they occasionally pop up on ebay) and wondered if any
        sodan had some they'd be willing to part with. -bz
        \_ I've read it, but I only ever bought one issue, and I'm
           pretty sure it's been thrown out by now.  Sorry. -jrleek
2006/6/12 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:43358 Activity:nil
6/12    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060612/od_nm/japan_robber_dc
        Proof that little yellow men are lousy robbers:
2006/5/20-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:43129 Activity:nil
5/20    Japanese Balloon bombs against the US
        http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=932
        \_ So?  Decades-old news?
           \_ It's called history.
              \_ So?  You don't see people posting articles about
                 the Civil War to the motd.
        \_ If you think that's interesting, look up the sub-launched air
           raids against the West Coast.  -John
           \_ How many American civilians did the Japs kill? Not that many
              compared to what we did to them. Now let me ask you, what about
              your people, John? The Swiss kept Nazi money safe for Nazi
              members many who fled to safe havens in South America. The
              Swiss people are mercenaries. You just need to give them lots
              of money and they'll do whatever it is you want them to do,
              without any consideration to moral values. Heil Nazi Loving
              Shameless Swiss John, and fuck the Swiss.
              \_ The Swiss are the descendants of the Templars, who brought
                 them the modern banking system.
              \_ This kind of stupidity makes me wonder why I bother with
                 the motd anymore.
                 \_ I was starting to worry about my troll farm since I
                    stopped baiting chicom troll and heil cherman john guy.
                    I'm glad at least their legacy lives on.  -John
              \_ Is it really so hard to avoid using racial slurs?
                 Is "Japanese" that hard to type?  Thanks.
                 \_ It's amusing how this troll seems to be guilty of many
                    of the attitudes that he ascribes to John.
2006/4/6-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:42699 Activity:nil
4/5     Amusing little short story by Dan Simmons
        http://www.dansimmons.com/news/message.htm
        \_ After having slogged through Illium let me just say, wow
           he can write crappy short stories as well!
        \_ I prefer the smooth stylings of Don "No Soul" Simmons.
2006/3/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/RealEstate] UID:42371 Activity:moderate
3/21    http://www.davidappleyard.com/japan/jp10.htm
        "The winter I spent in Seoul was the most comfortable winter of my
        life," reports an English friend. "With life in Korea, as in Japan,
        lived mainly on the floor, the ondol was very cozy, even when it
        was minus 20 degrees outside."
        jrleek, is this true?
        \_ The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.
        \_ Why wouldn't it be?  Even in the US, radiant floor heating is
           generally considered the most comfortable.
        \_ Traditional ondol has one spot that's *really* hot(too
           uncomfortable for my taste) and it gradually cools as further
           from the heat source it gets.  Traditionally, the elders got the
           hotspot.  The bad thing is that most homes with ondol are heated
           by a charcoal like thing, and if there's any crack in the pipe that
           runs under the floor, people can die from carbon monoxide poisoning.
           Carbon monoxide poisoning was actually quite common in the 70s and
           80s.
           \_ You can buy carbon monoxide detectors for about $20.  In
              fact, everyone with a gas heater should consider buying some.
           \_ When were you last in Korea that most homes with ondol were
              heated by charcoal?  That's extremely rare these days, even
              in the countryside. -jrleek
        \_ Sure, heated floors are pretty great.  I think Koreans tend to
           turn it up too high, but that's personal taste.  It's
           pretty efficent too. In modern times it's usually done by
           piping hot water through the floor from the hot water heater.
           This is done in states too, but isn't as common.  It has the
           This is done in the US too, but isn't as common.  It has the
           disadvantage of being really expensive to fix, and only
           lasting about 30 years.  This is ok in Korea as they tear
           everything down within 30 years anyhow. -jrleek
           \_ On a moderately-related note, this is also done for driveways
              and walkways in cold places. Several Tahoe-area ski resorts
              have heated pavement in one place or another. I always wonder
              what the energy and maintenence costs for something like this
              are.
              \_ I suspect the answer is "cheaper than getting them cleared
                 with a snowplow, snowblower, or shovel frequently enough to
                 keep them useable."
        \_ here is a crazy idea:
           - implement "wet installation" for the pipes, burry them in a
             relatively large concrete slap.
           - route those pipe to Solar panels, using Sun to heat the water
           - use concrete floor's heat capacity to store the heat
           this way, one can have a relatively warm house in the evenings
           without flip the heater on, no?
        \_ i'll ondol YOUR floor
           \_ eww.  Well at least let me put down some newspaper first.
2006/3/8-9 [Reference/BayArea, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:42144 Activity:high
3/8     Boom!
        http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html
        \_ Man, ground-level really zuuls the range on those puppies.
           I actually feel much safer now re: the oakland docks nuke-in-a-crate
           scenario.  The fallout would still be a bitch, of course.
        \_ No wonder the US/Russia made so many nukes.  The 15psi radius
           doesn't destroy enough land.
           \_ The default is for a 100KT blast (similar to Hiroshima).  Try
              changing that to 5 megatons.  -tom
              \_ hiroshima was only 14kT.  Most strategic nukes are around
                 200kt, with the big 5MT+ ones for 'bunker busting'.  200kt
                 is really all most military targets justfiy anyway.
        \_ Great.  When I switch the city to SF, it's centered about two
           blocks from my house.  -sax
           \_ You won't suffer.
              \_ Ooh, there's an interesting one.  If you knew something bad
                 was going to happen, and you could choose between a 100%
                 chance of instant, painless, you'd never-know-when death
                 or a 90% chance of painful, horrible, lingering death (10%
                 chance of decent survival), which would you choose?
                 \_ You should read Dr. Bloodmoney.
                 \_ I would definitely choose the 10% survival. After all,
                    I could kill myself if it sucked too much. Besides, I
                    would get to be on all sorts of wacky narcotics. And,
                    just maybe, I would turn into a MUTANT! \m/ fuck yeah! \m/
                    \_ Maybe you would get x-ray vision and be able to fly.
                       \_ the FURIOUS's ability will increase x10
2006/1/4-6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:41235 Activity:low
12/4    This is awful, just awful. I have no idea how I could fit in:
        http://www.yesicanusechopsticks.com/capsule
        \_ That's so cool.
        \_ I like the bottle of Pocart? Sweat.
           \_ "Pocari Sweat".  You can find it in some Asian markets.
        \_ Can you imagine a fire or earthquake in a place like this?
           \_ Yes. If it's a fire, you get teriaki Japanese. If it's
              an earthquake, you get raw Japanese sushi.
              \_ I may be on fire, but I will not be for long. You, however,
                 will remain an idiot.
        \_ Similar, capsule homes, not hotels:
   http://compilers.cs.ucla.edu/~kchang/pix/funny/building/Nakagin_Capsule.jpg
   http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Nakagin_Capsule_Tower
   http://www.kisho.co.jp/WorksAndProjects/Works/nakagin
   http://www.pingmag.jp/2005/09/05/micro-compact-home
   http://69.93.124.90/documentations/?number=19
        \_ http://gojapan.about.com/cs/accommodation/a/tokyocapsule3.htm
           "No female guests" hahaha
           \_ sigh, such a gender gap in Japan :P
        \_ I've stayed at a similar capsule hotel in Shibuya.
        \_ I've actually stayed at a similar capsule hotel in Shibuya.
           It was surprisingly comfortable. - ciyer (6ft. tall)
           \_ I bet they're terribly cozy.
2005/12/18-20 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:41063 Activity:high
12/16   http://edu.ocac.gov.tw/lang/taiwanese/s1.htm
        I'm looking for full versions of the traditional Taiwanese
        songs like the ones above. Where can I find them?
        \_ There are lots of free Minan songs from mainland China here,
           so you'll see simplified characters:
           http://www.buxiao.com/10.htm
           http://www.buxiao.com/Person/2124.htm (children's songs)
           By the way why do people say Taiwanese when it didn't
           originate from Taiwan?
           \_ related question, how come some of the old Taiwanese songs
              sound just like Japanese songs?
              \_ because pro-independent minded Taiwanese for some reason
                 admires Japan and missed the day of brutal Japanese
                 occupations.
              \_ because taiwan had been a japanese colony, and many older
                 taiwanese were japanese educated.
                 \_ there is more than that.  A lot of my friends' parents
                    grand parents were Japanese educated too in Manchuria
                    but they *HATE* Japanese to a point that they don't mind
                    to start another war to settle the old score.
                    \_ Manchuria was different.  Japanese was much more
                       brutal there especially given that guerilla
                       resistance was rampant in Manchuria.  Also, Japanese
                    \_ Manchuria was different.  Japanse ruled Taiwan for
                       a much longer time under more peaceful conditions.
                    \_ Manchuria was different.  Japan ruled Taiwan for
                       a much longer time under peaceful conditions.
                       Japanese was much more brutal in Manchuria,
                       especially given that guerilla resistance was rampant
                       there.  Also, Japanese
                       especially given that guerilla resistance was
                       rampant there.  Also, Japanese
                       rule of Manchuria was never secure, even after 1931.
                       You may ask, why is there less resistance in Taiwan.
                       Well, cause Qing China gave the island away, while
                       KMT and CCP never officially gave up on Manchuria,
                       even though the initial conventional resistance
                       even though the initial conventional resistance (1931)
                       even though the initial conventional resistance in 1931
                       was rather pathetic.  Also, there were plenty of
                       people in Manchuria who collaborated with the
                       Japanese.  My mom's side is from Manchuria, so I would
                       love to believe that Dong Bei Ren (people from
                       love to believe that Dong Bei Ren (i.e. people from
                       Manchuria) were all red-blooded patriots, but that's
                       not really true, unfortunately.
                       not really true if you study history.
                       \_ First of all, Japanese killed more than 600,000
                          Taiwanese during the 50 years of occupation (out of
                          total population of less than 3 million)
                          I wouldn't consider that a "peaceful occupation."
                          Secondly, Qing didn't "give it away."  Qing only gave
                          up after *ALL* its navy vessels and half of its army
                          got annihilated.   These are two facts that
                          Taiwanese love to ignore in order to justify its
                          independent agenda.
           \_ because they need an excuse to justify their reason for
              taking lands away from the aborigines and impose discrimentory
              immigration and birth policies toward others.
              \_ so you're ready to give up your house, apartment, etc to the
                 tribe that once lived on it?
                 \_ If you don't care about compensate aborigines for land
                    grabbing and genocide, then, stop crying faul for
                    228 incident.
                    \_ Taiwan government already paid compensation for
                       families of 228 victims a few years back.  When will
                       commie PRC pay families of Tiananmen victims?
                                             - Chicom Troll
                       \_ Has American pay compensation to the Bonus Army in
                          1932?  Did French ever compensate to the Algerian
                          Revolution?  give me a fucking break
                          \_ Who's talking about Americans?  Are you so
                             devoid of self respect that you constantly
                             need to lower yourself to the level of
                             Americans?  We citizens of the Heavenly
                             Americans?  We citizens of the Middle
                             Kingdom should be more righteous, more just,
                             and more compassionate than the lowly
                             Americans.  Have some self-pride please.
                             Don't compare yourself to animals, or you
                             will forever be beneath them.
                             Don't compare yourself to swines, or you
                             will forever be just as dirty as them.
                             Don't use swines as yardsticks, or you
                             will forever be as dirty as them.
                             Kingdom should be more righteous,
                             more compassionate, more courageous and
                             more willing to fight against injustices
                             than the lowly Americans.  Have some
                             self-pride please.  Don't use swines as
                             yardsticks, or you will forever be as
                             dirty as them.
                                              - chicom troll
                       \_ I think the poster who asked "why do people say
                          Taiwanese ..." was referring to the dialect, not the
                          race/ethnicity.
                          \_ the dialect is called "Ming Nan."  If you want to
                             be specific, the dialect is actually coming from
                             the city of XiaMen.  Remember there is a
                             significant percentage of Hekka population who
                             is been in Taiwan as long as rest of the Ming Nan
                             fractions. To say Ming Nan is "taiwanese" implies
                             those Hekka and abroginies are not.
        \_ Try http://yesasia.com, they have a bunch of CD's from asia.  I can't
           read Chinese, but searching on "taiwan" finds a bunch of CDs
           and/or artists.  You can also search in Chinese. -oj
           http://us.yesasia.com/en/Search/SearchResult.aspx
2005/11/19-21 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:40655 Activity:nil
11/18   Ugly images of Chinese and Koreans become best sellers in Japan.
        http://csua.org/u/e1f [nyt]
2005/9/30-10/3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:39933 Activity:nil
9/30    Anyone here from Japan?  How did Japan manage to have such low birth
        rates while contraceptive pills were not approved until recently?  Are
        Japanese condoms a lot more effective, or are there a lot more
        abortion, or is it really true that people have a lot less sex because
        men work long hours?
        \_ it is more acceptable in Japan to have an abortion than
           to use any sort of birth control.
        \_ The last one doesn't seem relevant, at least for married people.
           You only have to have sex once a year to have a ridiculously high
           birthrate.
           \_ Um, no.
        \_ Yes.
        \_ One word: bukake
           \_ http://csua.org/u/dkn
        \_ This while having the world's highest chlamydia infection rate.
           \_ Why does it hurt when I pee?
              Why does it hurt when I pee?
              I don't want no doctor
              To stick no needle in me
              Why does it hurt when I pee?
              I got it from the toilet seat
              I got it from the toilet seat
              It jumped right up
              'n' grabbed my meat
              Got it from the toilet seat
              My balls feel like a pair of maracas
              My balls feel like a pair of maracas
              Oh God I probably got the
              Gon-o-ka-ka-khackus!
              My balls feel like a pair of maracas
              Ai-ee-ai-ee-ahhhh!
              Why does it
              Why does it
              Why does it
              Why does it hurt...when I
              Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
        \_ Japan is way down the chart for the amount of sex they have.
        \_ Sex education not based on abstinence, higher rates of male
           sterility, much more emphasis on condoms. Also, yes, legalized
           abortion (although this is still somewhat stygmatized); see
           http://csua.org/u/dko (Stanford article on abortion in Japan 1996).
        \_ An astounding number of abortions.
        \_ Mostly it's women deciding not to have kids and not get married.
           Given the perceived and actual lives of married Japanese women,
           it's understandable.
           \_ What's the difference between the perceived and the actual?
        \_ The most sex crazed asian country in terms of amount of sex
           people have is my fatherland Taiwan.
2005/9/26-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:39874 Activity:nil
9/26    Everytime I get a http://proxyvote.com I get the following:
        "PROPOSAL FOR THE APPROVAL OF THE ADOPTION OF THE FISCAL YEAR 2006
        EXECUTIVE BONUS PLAN." I always vote no because my CEO is a fucking
        playboy and a dickhead who doesn't do anything. I've been voting
        no for the past 8 years and it's annoying seeing this everytime
        proxyvote comes. Is there a way to find out the past results of
        my votes? Thanks
        \_ Is your CEO named Larry and have a fetish for all things Japanese?
        \_ Should be part of the annual report.  -tom
        \_ you don't need to look it up.  I assure you that it has passed
           every year. -phuqm.
           \_ and if there's an accounting scandal, well, he doesn't do
              anything so he wouldn't know anything about that!
2005/8/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:39359 Activity:nil
8/30    "... the parliament designated the World War II hymn 'Kimigayo' as the
        national anthem in 1999 ... same one sung as the Imperial Army set
        forth from Japan ... strongly backed by Shintaro Ishihara, the governor
        of Tokyo and an outspoken nationalist, as a way to strengthen classroom
        patriotism.
        ... The school board's mandatory rule has had a visible effect. At
        graduation ceremonies in 2004, 198 teachers refused to stand. After a
        series of fines and disciplinary actions, Nezu and nine other teachers
        were the only protesters this year."
        http://csua.org/u/d71 (Wash Post)
2005/8/18-20 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:39160 Activity:nil
8/18    Japan travel agency to offer trips to space:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050818/sc_nm/space_japan_tourism_dc
        It says "...... zero gravity tour, which will take participants to an
        altitude of 100 km for a relatively inexpensive 11 million yen."
        Does anyone remember at what altitude it is considered "space"?  11M
        yen (~$100k) seems awfully cheap for that.
        \_ 100km is the generally agreed upon lower boundary of space.  A brief
           suborbital flight seems doable for 11MY.  Remember that the German
           V2 rockets lifted 1000kg into space back in the 1940's.
2005/8/5-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:39021 Activity:nil
8/5     http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4748027.stm
        How long does radiation last? Are babies born there weird? Do
        they have 3 eyes or 3 legs?
        \_ http://csua.org/u/cyb
2005/7/21-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:38754 Activity:low
7/21    Historians suggest that Truman dropped the bomb in order to
        impress the Soviets not to force Japan to surrender:
        http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7706
        \_ historians also suggest Hitler lives deep under the
           sea with Flipper. - danh
           \_ And don't forget Elvis being alive.
        [ NOTE: MacArthur couldn't have advised Truman not to use
          the bomb, b/c he didn't know about it until it was dropped. ]
           \_ use WMD on civilians... hmm... what makes us different than
               those who we called "terrorist" again?
               \_ This simple little concept called 'war'.  Use a dictionary,
                  dipshit.
                  \_ n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence)
                     against civilians in order to attain goals that are
                     political or religious or ideological in nature; this is
                     done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear
                     [syn: {act of terrorism}, {terrorist act}]
                      Hmm, no mention of "war" in that one...
                     \_ Oh my god, you're so stupid or are being intentionally
                        obtuse.  You know, WWII?   The US involved in a war???
                        *sigh*  You win trollboy, I guess your trolling skillz
                        exceed my self-restraint.
        \_ Good.  We killed two birds with one stone.  I think it was both to
           impress he Soviets AND to force Japan to surrender.
           \_ And talk about how effective it was!  What are we doing wrong
              here?
           \_ I agree.  Saw a documentary on this too.  There was a very
              influential advisor to Truman who suggested this.
        \_ I saw a documentary on the Histroy Channel that the Japanese
           sccheduled to drop an A-bomb on the US west coast around the same
           time with the nuclear core coming from Germany via submarine.  The
           bomb was to be dropped by a plane with folded wings launched from a
           submarine.  It said we only beat the Japanese by 13 days or
           something like that, I don't remember exactly.
           \_ I've heard there were some plans, but I don't think they
              had a bomb, so it seems unlikely they could get it going in
              13 days.  Anybody got a link?
              \_ I agree.  I don't think they had the bomb.  Germany
                 was probably closer to having one than Japan.
                 \_ They were still totally off.  The OSS dispatched an agent
                    during a war to kill a top German scientist suspected of
                    working on their bomb in a conference in Stockholm (?) but
                    he didn't, as he didn't feel there was even a hint that
                    they were close.  Remember that the German bomb project
                    relied mainly on heavy water, and what was found after the
                    war was pretty far from completion.  -John
             \_ Heh, on the other hand, maybe the bomb design was just to
                have a Kamikaze guy hold two pieces of uranium and hit
                them together when he gets close....
2005/7/16-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:38661 Activity:kinda low
7/16    Why must suicide bombers commit suicide? Don't they know that
        after they blow themselves up, they're gone cannot do any more
        harm? Don't they know for each suicide, there's one less
        bomber left to make a statement? I don't understand. If I were
        a pissed off occupyee, say a German or Japanese in WW2, I'd
        do all that I can to create havoc short of blowing myself up.
        \_ there's a norm macdonald show sketch where the suicide bomber
           employee is asking about health benefits
        \_ Umm...read http://www.valleyskeptic.com/dawkins.html for
           a summary.
        \_ Because they're thug cunts and should have body parts mailed to
           their family wrapped in bacon.  -John
2005/6/24-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:38290 Activity:high
6/24    pictures of paintings by Korean school children about
        how much they are displeased with Japan.
        http://uqmgp.hp.infoseek.co.jp - danh
        \_ "the government ordered the public schools to tell the students the
           Korean view without actually backing it up."  Doesn't this sound
           like how communist governments control the views of their youths?
           \_ I don't know, Japan seems to be doing the same thing with
              this issue, and others.
              \_ They're either incredibly sheltered or incredibly stupid
                 about the whole WWII thing.  Those new textbooks don't really
                 help, nor does half of E. Asia flogging a dead horse. -John
                 \_ Recently, Japan start to expand its territorial water,
                    which pissed off both Korea and China.  There were
                    navy vessle stand off between Korean and Japan about
                    a month ago.  China, by comparison, official reaction
                    has been much restrained.  Having said that, if Japan
                    continue its current path, it will repeat its imperial
                    ambition... and this time, USA will support it.
                    \_ Hahahaha.
        \_ All these while the Japanese start to love Korea because of its
           heart-touching TV dramas in recent years.
2005/5/13-15 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:37673 Activity:high
5/13    Japan to name Hirohito Day:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4543461.stm
        I wonder how this would look if Germany had a Hitler Day.
        \_ Berlin just open a Holocust momerial... what a contrast
        \_ I can't even begin to describe how not-even-close you are. -John
           \_ Then what about a Mussolini Day? -nivra
              \_ If you said "Petain Day", you'd be getting there. Sort of.
                 \_ Petain = France = Ally, Hirohito = Japan = Axis
           \_ John, you have no idea what are you talking about.  If you
              want to have an opinion on this topic, please do some homework.
              You are offending many people with comment like this.
              \_ Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass.  I know very well what
                 I'm talking about;  Hitler actively presided over the
                 systematic eradication of millions of people and aggressive
                 wars that caused death, chaos and suffering beyond
                 imagination.  Hirohito was the ceremonial figurehead of
                 a nation whose militaristic clique pursued expansionist
                 policies with similar effects, but largely without
                 power and functionally isolated from the barbarisms
                 committed by the Japanese.  While there certainly is a
                 strong argument against dedicating a day to him, comparing
                 him to Hitler is ignorant, offensive and stupid.  If you
                 \_ this is the american version of the story.  he was
                    pretty much in control and set out the policy of
                    invading China.  American put this "ceremonial figurehead"
                    spin later as American try to prevent join occupation
                    of post-war Japan with the Soviet.
                    And, Japan was also actively persided over systematic
                    eratication of millions of civilians.  The only
                    differences is that Japanese were not as "systematic,"
                    and there were a lot more Chinese than Jews.  The civilian
                    casualty is between 20-30 million, out of total of
                    500 million people at the time.  Go at least read
                    Iris Chang's book when you have a chance.  And, FYI,
                    there was a policy of "plunder all, burn all, and kill
                    all" policy by the JPN Imiperial army.  It would consider
                    as a genocide by today's standard.
                 choose to do this, though, I can't recommend anything beyond
                 a swift smack upside the head, as it shows you for the
                 intellectual coward you are.  Fuck off and die.  -John
                 \_ Chill. Did you forget your daily SSRI today? Maybe you
                    should see a psychiatrist. Wait, you've already done that
                    for a while.
                    \_ Hm, I don't seem to recall ever visiting a shrink.
                       Maybe he brainwashed _and_ hypnotized me?  -John
                       \_ Maybe you can tell us how you escaped conscription/
                          Substitute Service/community service.
                          I know you know that I know.
                          \_ Oh yeah, that one.  Cool, you found me out,
                             forgot all about that.  Does that count?  I guess
                             you're right, I'm a psycho!  Good job!  Now fuck
                             off and die.  (Oh and if you're really interested
                             I paid one to write me a section 8 in lieu of
                             spending 4 months doing pushups.)  -John
                             \_ My young kraut, you didn't pay, your dad did.
                                Now YOU fuck off and never come back to motd
                                until you contribute something more worthwhile
                                reading on motd, like pictures of you jodeling
                                while eating bratwurst
                                \_ Huh?  Came out of my paycheck, as I recall.
                                   Why do you care?  If you're going to try
                                   and defame me, at least try harder.  And I
                                   think this thread is pretty funny.  -John
           \_ This comment reminds me of the time I was a kid and saw another
              kid who was uncooperative and crying at Toys-R-Us. He screamed
              something to the effect "You don't even know how I feel!"
              Obviously, without EXPLAINING how he feels, how the fuck would
              his parents understand?
2005/5/9-11 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:37590 Activity:kinda low
5/9     The next nuke used in anger will be in:
        Clarification: The following will be TARGETS of the nuke
        \_ Korea
        \_ Israel
        \_ U.S. .
           \_ next nuke will be from a terrorist
           \_ Considering millions of people who hate United States before 911
              and billions more especially after the middle-east invasion, I
              also think this is a much more likely target than anything else.
        \_ Iran.
        \_ Taiwan
           \_ Do they have nukes? Are they part of the NPT?
              \_ It would be nuked by the mainland, like a woman
                 killed by her jealous lover who can't stand not
                 having her.
                 \_ fuck off!  we have balls.  We are nobody's woman.
                    \_ All right.  Like a man killing by his jealous lover who
                    \_ All right.  Like a man killed by his jealous lover who
                       can't stand not having him.  Okay now?
                       \_ Much better.
                    \_ Half of Taiwan's population would disagree.
                       \_ yea, the half that doesn't have to face the PLA.
                          \_ No women in the Taiwan military yet?
                    \_ But they're very small.
                       \_ It's not a matter of size, blah blah.
           \_ What would Taiwan do with a nuke?
              \_ Sell it.
        \_ Japan
        \_ India
        \_ Pakistan
        \_ Kashmir
        \_ MOTD
        \_ Was there a previous nuke used in anger?
           \_ Japan?  Have I been trolled?
              \_ No, those were for fun after a couple of beers.  Bonus points
                 if you can name all the ones dropped by accident (ICMB
                 complex at Laputa doesn't count.)  -John
                 \_ wasn't there a B52 which crashed with a nuke?
                    Also, wasn't there a sub with nukes which sank?
                 \_ If you count ones that dropped but didn't explode
                    (weren't armed) a couple were dropped off the coast of
                    Spain in the 50's.  I think the same thing happened
                    in Oklahoma or someplace.  Not as rare as one would
                    hope.
                    \_ Several subs, both US and Soviet.  5 accidental bomb
                       drops in the US alone.  Extra credit if you can name
                       the third one they were going to dump on Japan, the
                       original target of the Hiroshima bomb (and reason
                       why it was nixed) and the name of the B-29 that dropped
                       on Nagasaki (sorry, thought some useless nukular trivia
                       might be fun.)  -John
                       \_ Third one on Japan?  I thought we only made 3 at
                          first, and used them all.
                       \_ Original target of the Hiroshima bomb?  Tokyo,
                          but they didn't drop it because Tokyo was
                          already desolate.  Or Kyoto, but the ambassador
                          to Japan asked them not to because he didn't
                          want them to destroy to cultural artifacts.
                       \_ The original target of the Fat Man was Kokura,
                          but Nagasaki was chosen by the pilot of the
                          Bockscar due to cloud cover. Couldn't find the
                          original target of Little Boy.
                    \_ the thing in spain was in the 60s when McNamara was
                       still the SecDef.
        \_ Ann Coulter's mouth: .
           \_ Your nukular missile is so big and tax free?
              \- i dont think it will be india or kashmir. i think it would
                 be new york harbor or jerusalem. i dunno if he chechins
                 be new york harbor or jerusalem. i dunno if the chechins
                 are likely to be able to get ahold of one. in that case
                 the options are opened up a lot. --psb
                 \_ Then it'll be some moron's basement in Grozny.  "Allah
                    Akhbar, we have a bomb!" *clang* "oops" *BANG*  -John
2005/4/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:37191 Activity:very high
4/14    Japan is pulling a fast one in China Sea, just before meeting of
        foreign ministers.
          http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050414a1.htm
        Japanese government approves drilling in contested water; "the Defense
        Agency and the Japan Coast Guard" will "ensure the safety of the
        Japanese firms involved." (remarks at the very end).
        \_ You can't keep backing down forever.  The only way to deal with a
           bully is to confront them at some point.
           \_ I agree 100%. Who's the biggest bully in the world?
           \_ That's what Germans said beforing invading CZ and Poland.
              \_ So long as you are consistent in the behavior you accept
                 from the parties.  If you accept Chinese consternation when
                 it's thwarted, then you accept US (or whatever other nation)
                 consternation when it is thwarted also.  If you accept the
                 Chinese military moving in to occupy the questionable areas,
                 then you accept someone else's invasion also.
                 \_ The url syas Japanese military is going to patrol the
                    contested water, as they have already done there and
                    over some islet in dispute, not the other way around.
                    Your "China Bad" reflex is hurting basic reading
                    comprehension.  Sad.
           \_ That's what Germans said beforing invading CZ and Poland.  Some
              just has a habit of calling the victim bully and the bully victim
              \_ Yep.  The Chinese started to tap into a pool of resource
                 that crosses into contested territory.
                 \_ You are confused which side your argument supports.
                    \_ it all depends on your perspective.
                       \_ Only if you are already fixated.
        \_ Why is Japan pulling a fast one?   China started test drilling
           first and would not make its plans known to Japan.
           \_ China drilled in a area where even Japan acknowldged to be in
              Chinese domain, but now Japan will drill in a contested area.
              A boundary between two countries is valid iff it is acknowledged
              by both.  China asked but Japan has refused to negotiate over the
              dispute.
              \_ Unfortunately, while the Chinese are drilling in uncontested
                 areas, they may be tapping into a pool of resource that
                 crosses over into the Japanese exclusive economic zone.
                 This makes the Chinese test drill a contested issue.  While
                 the Japanese may have refused China's proposal to jointly
                 develop the area, the Chinese have also turned down the
                 Japanese proposal to evenly divide the sea between China and
                 Japan.  Nor have the Japanese turned down the Chinese joint
                 development as such.  The Japanese government has asked for
                 Chinese drill data before they would consider the proposal,
                 and China has refused to provide any information.
                 \_ Japan "claims" the reservior is connected to theirs.
                    \_ I don't think there's much doubt that this is japan's
                       claim.  Perhaps you mean to put quotes around
                       "connected".
                    Saddam made the same claim about oil field in Kuwait as the
                    reason to invade it.  If the air moleculres I breathe is
                    claimed to have passed Japan, do I have to bow to the
                    Emporor too?  As for the border, Japan simply "declared" a
                    "middle" line between Okinwawa, which was brutally annnexed
                    and colonized by Japan ~15 years before it did the same to
                    Taiwan and ~25 years before it did to Korea, and some spot
                    on mainland China.  It refused to discuss this with China.
                 \_ Saddam made the same claim about oil field in Kuwait
                    tapping into Iraq's as the reason to invade it.  If the
                    air moleculres I breathe is claimed to have passed Japan,
                    do I have to bow to the Emporor too?  As for the border,
                    Japan simply declared a "middle" line between Okinawa
                    and some spot on Chinese mainland.  Okinawa was forcibly
                    annnexed and brutally colonized ("disposed" is the
                    officially sanctioned word) by Japan ~15 years before it
                    did the same to Taiwan and ~25 years before it did so to
                    Korea.  It went free after WWII, but Japan reannexed it in
                    1972.  Regardless whether that is legitimate, it is clear
                    Japan's rapidly expanding border is a grave concern for its
                    neighbors, but it continues on a roll to impose its will.
                    Will they next claim a land border between Korea and
                    Shanghai, or between Pearl Harbor and Boston?
                 \_ China proposed joint exploration and offered to negotiate
                    the border dispute.  Japan simply unilaterally announed
                    where they want it to be.  This is not how normal country
                    resolves difference with neighbors. You are admitting the
                    facts, but your use of 'proposal','turn down,' and 'refuse'
                    are clever spins.  Isn't it odd to ask China to provide
                    very valuable data when Japan does not agree to form
                    a collaboration with it?  Hey, give me the source code to
                    longhorn before I consider whether to buy it.  No? You must
                    be evil!
                    \_ How can you negotiate over something when you don't
                       what you are negotiating over?  Of course Japan has
                       to ask for survey data before it can consider the
                       Chinese joint exploration proposal.
                    \_ Wrong analogy.  Source code = software.  However,
                       Survey data != actual oil
                       \_duh, analogy is not meant to be precise. If you were
                         serious about the discussion, you'd have gotten the
                         point, but clearly you are not.  Besides, Chinese
                         drilling is done in uncontested water. Japan's request
                         for data is just their way of saying "fuck you."
2005/4/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:37158 Activity:high
4/12    Should China or Japan apologize? Which side are you on and why?
        http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/12/china.japan
        \_ What's astounding to me is that the politics within Japan keep
           the necessary reform of textbooks from happening. It IS appalling
           that many Japanese people make it all the way through college
           oblivious to why much of Asia hates them. It also continues to give
           Beijing something it can use as a diplomatic lever when they want
           something. It would be difficult for Beijing to take the moral high
           ground if it didn't have this drum to beat. The fact we're hearing
           about this now makes me suspect Beijing is trying to pull a fast
           one in some other area. Check on the conflict over natural gas in
           the China Sea lately? -- ulysses
           \_ Japan's entry as a permanent member of the Security Council.
           \_ So China is by default the bad one in any disputes?  I once met
              an American who thought opium war is about Chinese trying to sell
              opium to Britain and getting punished, and so I am not surprised
              to hear this on the motd.  (No swiftboat troll please)  Japan has
              been pulling "fast ones" in China sea for years, but you never
              hear it in the west.  Korea used its navy to seize some islands
              it (rightly) claims from Japan.  Have you heard of that?  China
              has been relying on (empty) protests.  No good deed goes
              unpunished, I guess.
           \_ It seems that Japan is pulling a fast one.
        http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050414a1.htm
                Japan government approves drilling in contested region;
                Japan government approves drilling in contested water;
                "the Defense Agency and the Japan Coast Guard" will "ensure
                the safety of the Japanese firms involved."
        \_ Here's an interesting perspective I had not seen anywhere else:
           http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GD14Ad06.html
           \_ Not mentioned elsewhere?  You have to be kidding.  I read it
              everywhere.  Every time anything happens with China, it must
              have a hidden, devious and sinister motive, according to all
              the western (and Japanese) news, from the NYT to freerepublic.
              China builds a highway?  It is trying to the supress freedom,
              etc.  One of my favorite was from The Economist.  Right after
              Musharraf's coup in Pakistan, Econ. condemns it.  Then China
              publicly (and mildly) expressed concern over the coup.  Econ.
              panicked and switched its stance, saying basically that since
              China does not like it, the coup must be a good thing after all!
              \_ The western media is extremely biased when it comes
                 to news about China. Whatever the news is, they can
                 always spin it in such a way that they can say
                 something bad about China. Everything you read about
                 China is negative. If you read enough of these news,
                 it's natural to form a negative opinion. They are not
                 lying (for the most part), they are just extremely
                 selective on the 'facts'.
        \_ Apologize for what?  It seems clear that Japan has yet to
           acknowledge let alone apologize for the various atrocities
           it committed throughout Asia in the 1930s-1940s (and earlier).
           So yeah, Japan should apologize for that.  What in particular
           were you thinking China should apologize for?  China has many
           things for which to apologize, but for protests in front of
           the .jp embassy?  come on. --Jon
           \_ According to that article "Japan's leaders have so far
              apologized to China on no fewer than 17 occasions since the
              two nations restored diplomatic ties in 1972, according to
              The Economist Global Agenda."
              I dunno, China *is* a scary country.
                                               _/
Even ignoring the word play that comes in every
such so-called apology, can you consider it an apology when the
"apologizer" makes it clear before and after the apology that he did
not mean to apologize.  If you can, you should find yourself "scary."
As for the article, it is quite typical and predictable of most
western journalist trying to insinuate that China does not have a
valid case in any contentious issue by selectively "reporting" "facts"
and quotes.  There were larger, more intense protests in Korea started
earlier and continue to this day.  They have an equally valid case for
their anger, but you wouldn't hear much of it on the western press,
and rarely if ever in a negative light.  What Chinese and Koreans want
from Japanese is not some faked verbal apology, but a sincere and
serious acceptance of responsibility and the belief from their conscience
"War was wrong and I now want to be your good neighbor," instead of its
current "I was your master, then the Yankees nuked us.  Ouch that
hurt, and now under the Yankees supervision I remain your master."  If
anything, the Chinese government has been holding back popular
resentment on this issue, giving Japan time, decades of it, to act up.
What they got in return were slaps on the face, year after year.  The
textbooks have been getting worse every (4?) years, the period of revision
and review by the Japanese government.  They now state in the textbooks
that it is China's fault that it was attacked, invaded, and occupied,
it's Korea's fault to be in Japan's way to conquer China that it had
to be invaded, that if any Chinese civilians and POWs were killed by
Japanese (in Nanjing and elsewhere) it was all done within the normal
conduct of war, that the Tokyo war courts' finding of wartime atrocity
were unfounded, that Japan made great sacrifice during WWII with the
sole intention to save Asia from western imperialists, and so on.  How is
this for an apologetic and reformed axis power?  And all this is not the
work of a few conspirators that sneaked under the radar screen, but a
wide open, popular, aggressive and concerted campaign by leading
politicians to reassert Japanese economic, military, and political
domination over its neighbors, including but not limited to its
induction into security council, perhaps permanently, this year.  Only a
small band of courageous but marginalized Japanese citizens have stood
up and condemned this.
                   Malformated verbal diarrhea _/
                   deleted.
              \_ Even ignoring the word play that comes in every such
                 so-called apology, can you consider it an apology when the
                 "apologizer" makes it clear before and after the apology
                 that he did not mean to apologize.  If you can, you should
                 find yourself "scary." As for the article, it is quite
                 typical and predictable of most western journalist trying
                 to insinuate that China does not have a valid case in any
                 contentious issue by selectively "reporting" "facts" and
                 quotes.  There were larger, more intense protests in Korea
                 started earlier and continue to this day.  They have an
                 equally valid case for their anger, but you wouldn't hear
                 much of it on the western press, and rarely if ever in a
                 negative light.  What Chinese and Koreans want from
                 Japanese is not some faked verbal apology, but a sincere
                 and serious acceptance of responsibility and the belief
                 from their conscience "War was wrong and I now want to be
                 your good neighbor," instead of its current "I was your
                 master, then the Yankees nuked us.  Ouch that hurt, and now
                 under the Yankees supervision I remain your master."  If
                 anything, the Chinese government has been holding back
                 popular resentment on this issue, giving Japan time,
                 decades of it, to act up.  What they got in return were
                 slaps on the face, year after year.  The textbooks have
                 been getting worse every (4?)  years, the period of
                 revision and review by the Japanese government.  They now
                 state in the textbooks that it is China's fault that it was
                 attacked, invaded, and occupied, it's Korea's fault to be
                 in Japan's way to conquer China that it had to be invaded,
                 that if any Chinese civilians and POWs were killed by
                 Japanese (in Nanjing and elsewhere) it was all done within
                 the normal conduct of war, that the Tokyo war courts'
                 finding of wartime atrocity were unfounded, that Japan made
                 great sacrifice during WWII with the sole intention to save
                 Asia from western imperialists, and so on.  How is this for
                 \_ Is this true? I find this shocking. links?
                    \_ The Japanese claim may have some validity depending
                       on what point in history one is talking about.
                       Japan's attitude was a changing mixture of "dang,
                       we are getting screwed by the western powers",
                       "we need to get strong and help asia defend itself",
                       "hey, we want our own part of the imperialism pie",
                       "uh oh, china is getting stronger, we better nip it
                       in the bud", "koreans and chinese are sub-humans,
                       we are superior and should kill them or rule over
                       them".  The whole process goes back up till several
                       decades before WWII, includes the Russo-Japanese
                       War (1905), Sino-Japanese War (1894/5), etc.
                       Of course, the revisionists these days just focus
                       solely on the "We are just trying to
                       defending asia against western imperialism" part.
                     \_ If you read Chinese or Korean, it should be widely
                        available.
                        http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2005-03-25/02035456043s.shtml
                        http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2005-03-24/13325453393s.shtml
                        are two examples in Chinese.  I suspect that it is not
                        that hard to find Japanese version either.  The
                        Japanese groups behind the textbook rewriting are quite
                        proud of what they did and quite likely they are
                        bragging what changes they will put in the future.  I
                        am sorry I cannot find any western journalists willing
                        to report on the textbooks.  One has to look deep into
                        their soul to figure out why.
                 an apologetic and reformed axis power?  And all this is not
                 the work of a few conspirators that sneaked under the radar
                 screen, but a wide open, popular, aggressive and concerted
                 campaign by leading politicians to reassert Japanese
                 economic, military, and political domination over its
                 neighbors, including but not limited to its induction into
                 security council, perhaps permanently, this year. Only a
                 small band of courageous but marginalized Japanese citizens
                 have stood up and condemned this.
                                        - formatted for op
                 \_ Well said, thank you! -ray
              \_ I imagine the problem is not so much that Japan hasn't
                 apologized but that Japanese text book publishers keep
                 putting out books that (in China's opinion) minimizes
                 Japanese atrocities during WWII.  How much (central)
                 governmental control does Japan have over its textbooks?
                 \_ I understand the Education Ministry is very nationalist.
                 \_ "The acrimonious exchanges come after a week of rising
                     tensions over the Japanese Government's approval of a
                     controversial school textbook, which plays down the
                     extent of historical atrocities committed by Japan.
                     Among its other perceived flaws, the book, which was
                     written by a panel of nationalist educators, removed
                     all reference to 'comfort women'  Asian women forced
                     into sexual slavery by the Japanese Imperial Army."
                     http://csua.org/u/bo2  (UK Times)
              \_ "... apologized ... no fewer than 17 occasions ..."
                 apologized for what?
                 \_ "We're sorry you're all a bunch of pussies."
                 \_ "We're sorry we did the good ole in-and-out on your
                     country".
                     country" (seriously)
                     \_ It's not even "We're sorry about the in-and-out ...".
                        It's "We feel sorry about the in-and-out ...".  In
                        other words, it was explicitly only an expression of
                        resentment, not an apology.
        \_ Japan was stupid to accept the new revisions to the textbooks.
           In an ideal world, Japan should back out to the old revisions and
           send back the new ones for review.
        \_ What about Germany? What do text book in Germany say about WWII?
           \_ The holocaust was a JEWISH CONSPIRACY!  It never happened!1!
           \_ 'Germany continues to compensate victims even today, although
               World War II ended 60 years ago, Mr. Roh observed.
               "Germany also publishes history textbooks through
               consultation with its neighbors," [South Korean President
               President Roh Moo-hyun] said. He said that South Korea is
               envious of Germany's neighbors for having such an opportunity.'
               http://csua.org/u/bo1 (JoongAng Daily)
           \_ U.S. textbooks are an interesting piece of fiction, too.
              \_ I'm glad you learned from them to get your degree as well
        \_ Imagine if Germany did what Japan has done.  German president/pm
           visits cemetary where Hitler and his generals were interred to
           pay respects.  Germany approves new history books whitewashing
           the holocaust. -nivra
2005/3/22-23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:36811 Activity:high
3/22    I am wondering, do other countries have kids shooting other kids
        in school? What about England? Europe, Asia, Japan?
        \_ no, in Asia they kill themselves (suicide)
        \_ No guns in Japan, but knives
 http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/archive/200406/01/20040601p2a00m0dm004003c.html
 http://202.221.217.59/print/news/nn02-2005/nn20050216a2.htm
           \_ I remember a story from about 7 years ago where some
              Japanese High School Kid killed classmates with a katana.
              \_ is this the "bamoidooki" and "sacred experimenter" case?
              \_ and I bet freeper troll put it on the MOTD as a fallacious
                 refutation of the need for gun control.  -tom
                 \_ curious tom, when you say gun control what do you have in
                    mind? what's your preffered gun control scheme?
                    mind? what's your preferred gun control scheme?
                    \_ I don't see any fundamental problems with the UK's
                       scheme.  -tom
              \_ There was the kid who cut off the head of a 10yo and put it
                 in front of his school. That guy, btw, never had his name
                 revealed bc he was a juvenile. Now that he's an adult, they
                 had to let him go. He's at large, in Japan, and his ID remains
                 unknown.
        \_ Never heard of it in Hong Kong.  Gun control over there is much
           better.  Gang members in bad schools stabbing each other are common,
           but kids going postal and stabbing random classmates are very very
           rare.
           \_ Probably a lot harder to kill 10 people with a knife befoe being
              stopped.
        \_ They use knives and brickbats in the UK.  Just as violent, the
           little fuckers, and apparently far more prone to bullying.  -John
           \_ I've wondered if the Brits I've met are just bottom of the
              barrel or if there is a predisposition to beatings/physical
              violence w/ drinking.  One thought was that it comes from a
              lack of concern that the response to a punch might be a
              .45 in the face.
              \_ "God created man, but Sam Colt made them equal."
        \_ Don't Japanese people use samurai swords to kill each other?
2005/3/19-21 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:36767 Activity:kinda low
3/19    Primitive man-bot deputs in Japan, can walk 1 mile per hour. What is
        it with the Japanese people and their obsession with robots (Honda's
        Asimo, Robotech, and now this)?
        http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000957036737
        \_ Debuted a month ago. Beats the hell out of a Segway.
           Cf. http://www.hitachi.co.jp/New/cnews/month/2005/03/0315.html
           (Hitachi's EMIEW.)
        \_ Cost-cutting.  It's cheaper than Japanese people.  -John
        \_ It's necessary R&D before they can develop the tentacle-bot.
        \_ First step towards miniaturization of people in a city of minature
           manufacturing centers where tall people are excluded and cut up
           for parts.
        \_ Half the Japanese population will be too old to work soon. They
           need robots since importing slaves is not permitted anymore.
2005/2/13 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:36160 Activity:very high
2/13    Thought Abu Gharib was bad? Just wait until the Gitmo stuff
        starts to hit the news:
        http://csua.org/u/b1m
        \_ The NYT continues its slide downhill.  I love the allegations of
           cruelty which we are supposed to connect to Guantanamo but actually
           could have happened in Pakistan before the US had custody (e.g. the
           wired helmet).
           \_ Do you categorically deny that torture is taking place at
              Gitmo?
              \_ Let's say that it is. Why is that a problem?
                 \_ Because we're supposed to be the good guys, and good
                    guys don't torture people, you thick fucking muppet.  Nor
                    are we supposed to provoke wars, bomb civilians, hijack
                    and enslave children, rape women, raze undefended towns,
                    etc. etc. etc.  And before you come up with some slimy,
                    ill-informed, weak-gutted reasoning, yes, it's all the
                    same reprehensible thing engaged in by thugs, tyrants, and
                    bad guys.  Not good guys.  Bad guys.  Why is this so
                    goddamm difficult to understand?  -John
                    \_ What might shock you is that even if we are
                       torturing those people we are *still* the good
                       guys. It's all relative. They decapitate our
                       people. So we torture some of theirs. BFD. If you
                       want to argue that people are there that should not
                       be that is different. Torture in itself, however,
                       is a non-issue. Only people from touchy feely
                       countries like Sweden and Switzerland worry about
                       this. World powers should not.
                       \_ Whoop, almost caught me on that one, 2nd rate troll.
                          Tip for the aspiring troll-in-training:  the last
                          2 sentences give it away.  -John
                    \_ I think this is a little simple.  What about WWII?
                       Lots of very unsavory things went on during WWII.
                       These unsavory things could not have been avoided by
                       conducting the war in a different way (without making
                       warmaking far less effective), or by avoiding warmaking
                       altogether (which would make us complicit with Hitler).
                       I am not an apologist for torture or immoral things,
                       but the 'good guys/bad guys' dichotomy is silly in this
                       case.  War is inherently immoral.  You need to either
                       be a ruthless utilitarian in war, or abandon war
                       altogether to people with stronger stomachs (or weaker
                       consciences, depending on how you want to look at it).
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ We didn't provoke WWII.  We didn't (on the whole)
                          condone unsavory actions in WWII, and when we did,
                          such as being prepared to use mustard gas, it was
                          wrong, and no I'm not willing to get into a
                          discussion about nukes as, being a military history
                          buff, as well as an intl. relations grad, I'm not
                          sure where I stand on that.  War is not "immoral",
                          it is bad and to be avoided when possible.  Re. the
                          "silly" good guys/bad guys analogy, being seen by
                          poor unfortunate SOBs around the world as a paragon
                          of liberty, truth, and all that jazz is one of the
                          main things the US has had going for it throughout
                          history.  We lose that, we lose a large part of what
                          I personally believe is our identity, idealistic and
                          naive as that may sound.  -John
                          \_ I find this particularily amusing on the
                             anniversary of the bombing of Dresdan. Sweet.
                             \_ "Dresden".  And Hiroshima.  And Nagasaki.  And
                                handing Vlasov army POWs back to the Soviets.
                                And a host of other pretty shitty things.
                                Interesting straw man, equating prison torture
                                with something seen at the time as a military
                                necessity, but pretty horrible in retrospect.
                       \_ What about slavery?  We enslaved black people,
                          thought it was fine, then they got their freedom, and
                          thought separate but equal was fine.  Why can't we go
                          back to slavery or separate-but-equal segregation?
                          Lots of unsavory things happened in America.
                          You need to be either a ruthless utilitarian in
                          domestic policies, or abandon politics altogether to
                          the Democrats! -!John
                       \_ It's pretty questionable whether torture adds any
                          sort of "effectiveness" to our warmaking.
                       \_ "The problem is, this kind of thing occurs in
                          prisons across the country and across the world. And
                          you have to know it's going to be a possibility. And
                          therefore the training and the discipline and the
                          doctrine has to be such that you anticipate that
                          risk. And clearly, that wasn't done to the extent it
                          should." -Rumsfeld, Feb 3 2005
2005/1/18 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:35771 Activity:moderate
1/18    I want to see this: (Wierd Japanese Kiddie show)
        http://www.filmthreat.com/Reviews.asp?Id=5064
        \_ Are there non-weird Japanese kiddie shows?
           \_ I'd actually be interested in Japanese TV in general
              to assist in learning the language. Does anyone know
              of regular Japanese language shows you can get in the US
              through cable or satellite? -bz
              \_ channel 26 ktsf(?) on the public airwaves has dramas
2004/11/12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:34865 Activity:nil 71%like:34837
11/11   Author of Rape of Nanking committed suicide:
        http://csua.org/u/9xx
        \_ From the article: "Many soldiers went beyond rape to disembowel
           women, slice off their breasts, nail them alive to walls. Fathers
           were forced to rape their daughters and sons their mothers as other
           family members watched."
           \_ Where does that info come from I wonder?
              \_ The article said she interviewed survivors in China.
                 \_ Considering the well-documented atrocities committed
                    by the biological warefare Unit 731, these things
                    are all very plausible.
                    \_ So here's what I don't undestand.  How did Japan go
                       from this level of barbarism to being some of the most
                       peaceful people in the world in one generation?
                       \_ America.
                       \_ Perception of external threats from western
                          imperialist nations leading to desire to have
                          its own colonial empire leading to invasion
                          of korea, manchuria.  Ideology of superiority
                          of Japanese and society turning militaristic
                          leading to despise and dehumanization of
                          other asian people.  Whether Japan is peaceful
                          or not is still to be seen.  It can only be
                          judged when the nation is under duress.  US
                          did have a positive influence on Japan since
                          WWII.
                    \_ Is Japan denying what Unit 731 did too?
                    \_ I just searched for Unit 731 on google, and boy, I got
                       pretty angry. I guess what the US did to the Iraqi
                       prisoners seems like Child's play in comparison.
                       Now tell me, is Japan denying Unit 731?
                       \_ the right wingers certainly are denying it,
                          or the very least, not wanting to teach it
                          in school or discouraging people to write
                          about it.
                       \_ It's pretty horrid.  Look for the William Kristol
                          interview with a veteran of that unit.
                          The guy's statements are stomach-turning.  -John
                       \_ There were also interviews of Japanese soldiers
                          who witnessed or participated in the Rape of
                          Nanking.  Some felt a lot of guilt, while others
                          tried to explain it.
        \_ And how have they ruled out some pissed off Japanese right wing
           nut killed her?
           \_ why do you hate right wing Japanese people?
                \_ It's that whole SoCal supermarket--samurai sword thing.
                   Read up on Yukio Mishima, you may be amused. -John
           \_ The US govt is not interested in embarrassing its Japanese ally
              with whatever war crimes it committed in China.  I don't think it
              has ever been interested.
              \_ Well, "authorities" said it was suicide.  What "authorities"?
                 Local cops, I assume.  How difficult is it for leet Japanese
                 ninja types to fake a suicide that will fool the local
                 constabulary?
          \_ An alternative theory is that the research on the Bataan
             Death March which the http://sfgate.com article said she was doing in
             Kentucky days before she was foudn dead traumatized her enough to
             commit suicide. Like maybe she opened up old wounds of some
             80-year-old WWII vet and felt guilty about it...
             \_ What's he gonna do, beat her to death with a walker?
                \_ you're a craven asshole.
                   \_ Not really, I thought pp was making nonsense hypotheses.
                      Wasn't meant like that.
                      \_ I agree, but then it's well known the motd is full
                         of psycopath.
                         \_ And FOB idiots.
2004/11/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:34858 Activity:high
11/12   I can't seem to get over what I read about Japan's "Biological
        Unit 731". I mean I know Japanese did some bad things in
        China, but I never really knew the details. Thanks to the
        wonder of the internet and the recent discussion of author of
        "Rape of Nanking", I decided to Google it. At first it was not
        a big deal, all history, but soon I got pretty sick of what I
        was reading. I mean all those live experiments on human body.
        And now I can't seem to quite get over it. How could any
        person with conscience justify what they are doing? I mean
        taking pictures of Naked prisoners is bad, but this kind of
        stuff is down right horrible. I find myself having some
        trouble getting past what I read. I drive a Japanese car,
        Japanese stuff is all over my house, and my company works with
        Japanese clients and heck I've even been to Japan once and
        sort of liked it. But how do I get over what I read? I am just
        kinda angry/pissed at something. -Chinese sodan
        \_ Attila the Hun, Nero, Ivan the Terrible, slavery, Hitler,
           eugenics, Pol Pot, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.  WWII plumbed horrid
           depths of human darkness; it's over.  The people in Japan you deal
           with nowadays most likely had nothing to do with it.  Don't look
           at them as compatriots of manics, look at them as people.  -John
        Japanese stuff is all over my house, and my company works with
        Japanese clients and heck I've even been to Japan once and
        sort of liked it. But how do I get over what I read? I am just
                        Easy; pretend you're Tibetan. _/
        kinda angry/pissed at something. -Chinese sodan
        \_ As a fellow Chinese Sodan I can only say that one should let the
           past be the past. There's already too much hatred in the world
           to reopen old wounds. Yes, the crimes were horrible, yes,
           more Chinese died due to the Japenese than Jews (only the
           Russians lost more people), yes Nanking was a crime against humanity,
           yes, they treated POWs wit utter brutality. However, we cannot
           blame the children for the crimes of their fathers. To do so
           would only continue the cycle of hatred. Having said that I do think
           that the Japanese need to acknowledge their crimes, like the
           Germans have, and make a heartfelt apology to all nations, not
           simply China, of their WWII aggressions. The Japanese have,
           unfortunately, decided to forget that part of their history.
           I believe that this not only affects Sino-Japanese relations,
           but it has also greatly damaged the psyche of Japanese society.
           I believe that until the Japanese are willing to come to terms
           with that past there will always be this sense of guilt
           lingering in the corners of their collective culture.
           \_ Certainly younger Japanese bear no guilt for old atrocities, but
              when you have modern nationalists denying what happened, and no
              public national apology, it's at least a tacit approval.
        \_ Do you get angry/pissed about atrocities against non-Chinese?
        \_ My friend's parents still hold a grudge, they only buy American
           cars. Maybe that's why Iris Chang was found in an Oldsmobile.
           \_ My first three cars were American, and now I've finally bowed to
              quality issues and bought a Japanese one as the fourth.
              --- Chinese
        \_ Nothing can be done now.  Historically people have done some
           pretty horrible things, the Japanese aren't alone in this,
           although they did take brutality to an artform.  Just remember
           this whenever someone suggests dropping the bomb on Japan was a
           horrible thing to do.
        \_ Japan got nuked twice, get over it.
           \_ But it wasn't the Chinese who nuked it.
                \_ hmm. but the Chinese sold out their culture to
                   communism, they get what they deserve after that.
                   \_ huh? what's wrong with communism?
                   \_ I see you've been brainwashed well.
                   \_ huh? Nanking was the capital of ROC run by the
                      KMT, not the CCP.
        \_ Older generations of Jews have tended to not purchase German-made
           goods, though the younger generations have since abandoned the
           practice.  Memories fade and people die.  You can certain boycott
           practice.  Memories fade and people die.  You can certainly boycott
           Japanese goods if it will make you feel better, or you can just
           console yourself with the fact that the Japanese who committed
           those atrocities are either dead or dying, and the younger Japanese
           seem unlikely to repeat the mistakes.
        \_ You enjoyed your visit to Japan?  Do you speak Japanese?  My wife
           was a Japanophile, and she took a couple years of Japanese in
           college.  She's Chinese, btw.  When she finally visited Japan,
           she was stunned by the constant stream of Japanese chatter around
           her disparaging her on her "barbaric" appearance and behavior.
           Another friend of my wife's worked as a programmer in Japan for
           a few years, and she also came out of the experience a Japanophobe.
           \_ your wife probably is barbaric, being chinese and whatnot.
              you should upgrade to a better race.
              \_ I like sexy barbaric females.
                 \_ It does sound hot
           \_ My coworker (Colombian/Hungarian) lived and worked in Japan
              for a year and loved it. Her Japanese friends come to visit
              all the time. It's your wife, dude.
              \_ Not to get all racist, but you do know how closed-minded
                 some asian cultures are right?
                 \_ I once had the honor to escort a Chinese doctor around a
                    festival in rural Japan.  Everyone assumed she was Japanese
                    and no one made disparaging remarks about her when they
                    learned the contrary, despite her lack of Japanese language
                    skill.  Anecdotal evidence swings both ways and is, in
                    general, inconclusive. --erikred
                 \_ s/some asian cultures/some asians/
                 \_ Try it out for yourself:
                    http://www.alllooksame.com
              \_ Yes, most of my white friends have had good experience in
                 Japan.  That, however, does not mean that other Asian types
                 are treated with the same amount of respect and courtesy.
                 \_ Part of the distinction is whether you are considered a
                    'visitor' or a 'native.'  According to my friends who lived
                    in Japan, one is treated like a King ... until one stays
                    for a while.  Then eventually one is treated like a native,
                    which is considerably more stressful, but at least it's how
                    the japanese treat each other.  -- ilyas
        \_ Consider that the purpose of the Nuremburg trials and the execution
           of Tojo and the Japanese high command was to remove the burden of
           collective guilt on the part of the German and Japanese public
           after the war.  Most Japanese, on hearing about the atrocities
           committed by Unit 731, are absolutely horrified.  I don't want to
           belittle your own feelings; I just want to offer you some historical
           solace. --erikred
2004/11/11 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:34846 Activity:nil
11/11   Iris Chang commits suicide.
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/11/MNGB59PKL01.DTL
2004/11/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:34837 Activity:high 71%like:34865
11/11   Author of Rape of Nanking committed suicide:
        http://tinyurl.com/5cs2b
        \_ From the article: "Many soldiers went beyond rape to disembowel
           women, slice off their breasts, nail them alive to walls. Fathers
           were forced to rape their daughters and sons their mothers as other
           family members watched."
           \_ Where does that info come from I wonder?
              \_ The article said she interviewed survivors in China.
                 \_ Considering the well-documented atrocities committed
                    by the biological warefare Unit 731, these things
                    are all very plausible.
                    \_ So here's what I don't undestand.  How did Japan go
                       from this level of barbarism to being some of the most
                       peaceful people in the world in one generation?
                       \_ America.
                       \_ Perception of external threats from western
                          imperialist nations leading to desire to have
                          its own colonial empire leading to invasion
                          of korea, manchuria.  Ideology of superiority
                          of Japanese and society turning militaristic
                          leading to despise and dehumanization of
                          other asian people.  Whether Japan is peaceful
                          or not is still to be seen.  It can only be
                          judged when the nation is under duress.  US
                          did have a positive influence on Japan since
                          WWII.
                    \_ Is Japan denying what Unit 731 did too?
                    \_ I just searched for Unit 731 on google, and boy, I got
                       pretty angry. I guess what the US did to the Iraqi
                       prisoners seems like Child's play in comparison.
                       Now tell me, is Japan denying Unit 731?
                       \_ the right wingers certainly are denying it,
                          or the very least, not wanting to teach it
                          in school or discouraging people to write
                          about it.
                       \_ It's pretty horrid.  Look for the William Kristol
                          interview with a veteran of that unit.
                          The guy's statements are stomach-turning.  -John
                       \_ There were also interviews of Japanese soldiers
                          who witnessed or participated in the Rape of
                          Nanking.  Some felt a lot of guilt, while others
                          tried to explain it.
        \_ And how have they ruled out some pissed off Japanese right wing
           nut killed her?
           \_ why do you hate right wing Japanese people?
                \_ It's that whole SoCal supermarket--samurai sword thing.
                   Read up on Yukio Mishima, you may be amused. -John
           \_ The US govt is not interested in embarrassing its Japanese ally
              with whatever war crimes it committed in China.  I don't think it
              has ever been interested.
              \_ Are you chinese?  Do you understand the effects opium trade
                 had on china?
              \_ Well, "authorities" said it was suicide.  What "authorities"?
                 Local cops, I assume.  How difficult is it for leet Japanese
                 ninja types to fake a suicide that will fool the local
                 constabulary?
          \_ An alternative theory is that the research on the Bataan
             Death March which the http://sfgate.com article said she was doing in
             Kentucky days before she was foudn dead traumatized her enough to
             commit suicide. Like maybe she opened up old wounds of some
             80-year-old WWII vet and felt guilty about it...
             \_ What's he gonna do, beat her to death with a walker?
                \_ you're a craven asshole.
                   \_ Not really, I thought pp was making nonsense hypotheses.
                      Wasn't meant like that.
                      \_ I agree, but then it's well known the motd is full
                         of psycopath.
                         \_ And FOB idiots.
2004/10/27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:34386 Activity:very high
10/27   On a lighter note, Japan Today on Japanese drinking habits!
        http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=524
        \_ I'm usually not one to comment like this, but that Kaori looks like
           a skank.  The sake blush in the cheeks isn't helping.
           a skank.  The sake blush in her cheeks isn't helping.
           \_ I'm curious. Given the context of a young woman in a completely
              different place and culture, what definition of skank are you
              thinking of? E.g., does "skank" = !(HOTAZNCH1X)?
2004/10/12-13 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:34071 Activity:high
10/12   WWII hero:
        http://tinyurl.com/3mtzq
        \_ Bud Day was more heroic.
2004/9/13-14 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:33492 Activity:moderate
9/13    Curious, after WW2 were there any retaliatory attempts by pissed
        off German/Japanese on Americans?
        \_ there were minor ones from fanatical SS officers who just wouldn't
           die and go away in Germany, look up "Germany"
           "ww2" "werewolves".  they weren't very effective - danh
        \_ People back then were simpler minded.  Even if they wanted to
           retaliate, technics for mass destruction by individuals and
           media needed for the public fear effects weren't avilable.
           \_ I do believe Japanese hated Americans for the atomic bombs for
              a long time.
                \_ and yet I wonder why there hasn't been a single case of
                   Japanese suicide bombers in a major American city. I mean,
                   who could resist 99 hot azn virgins in the Heaven?
                   \_ Oh, hot azn virgins.  My pant's getting tight.
2004/9/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:33437 Activity:very high
9/9     Oh man, only 75 protesters showed up at Malkin's speach last
        night, and from the picture it doesn't even look like any of them
        were students.
        http://dailycal.org/article.php?id=16037
        \_ um, you're confusing active and outspoken Berkeley
           students of the 60s with the currently apathetic, confused,
           self-centered, and capitalistic minded Berkeley students
           of today.
           \_ things were pretty racist back then.  people today are like,
              where's the racism today?  Why do black people and hispanics
              get preferential treatment in admissions?
              \_ Mmm... uninformed troll...
                 \_ wasn't it pretty racist back then?  aren't BCR people
                    today asking where's the racism today, and why do black
                    people and hispanics get preferential treatment in
                    admissions?
                    \_ blacks and hispanics don't get preferential treatment
                       in admissions.
                       \_ yer right.  Admissions from these groups have
                          dropped a lot since the change in the UC system.
                          BCR people are actually thinking, "Yeah, see, we
                          were right."
                    \_ Yes, issues of racism have gotten better, but they're
                       definitely not gone.  To think that they are is
                       incredibly naive, immature, or stupid.
                       \_ yer right.  BCR people are worried about reverse
                          discrimination.
        \_ I would say most of the protestors were students.  There
           were 5 or 6 well behaved non student Spartacus league
           freaks outside of Dwinelle.  The Dwinelle hallway is just
           not that big so there wasn't that much room for much
           of anything to happen.  Michelle Malkin writes that
           there were hundreds of her supporters who couldn't get in,
           I don't agree.   oh that photo you are talking about
           is from the sproul lunch thing, i'm talking about her
           actual speech at the BCR meeting.  the protest photo
           was during daylight, malkin's speech was around 8pm
           last night. - danh
           \_ Whew.  I was afraid the Berkeley students were growing
              brains or something.  Nice to know I've still got plenty of
              idiots to laugh at.  Of course, inviting Maulkin at all is
              pretty stupidly funny.
                \_ you can get a good idea of where Malkin is coming from
                   just by reading her blog for a while
                   http://www.michellemalkin.com .  I really doubt she
                   woke up one morning and thought "The Japanese
                   internment was good for the motherland in ww2.  I must
                   correct this historical misunderstanding and write
                   a book!"   - danh
                   \_ She excoriates Delta Airlines for booting a non-paying
                      soldier from a flight in favor of a paying customer with
                      a ticket.  I wonder what she has to say about Halliburton
                      serving spoiled food to US troops.
                \_ it's very smart of the BCR boys.  they know if they
                   invite some nutcase who writes a book about how
                   the Japanese American internment was not motivated
                   by racism at all and actually helped the ww2 war effort,
                   she gets some more laughs by claiming they showed
                   up voluntarily and that over half of the camp detainees
                   were non Japanese, that people will get pissed
                   off and show up and shout a lot.  then the BCR
                   people and their unholy David Horowitz zombie masters
                   can include wild eyed photos of Berkeley liberals
                   in their next fundraising newsletter. - danh
                   \_ Americans of German and Italian descent were not ordered
                      to report to their nearest detention facility
                        \_ They were in the UK.  -John
                      \_ The Germans and Italians didn't attack American land
                         in the Atlantic, nor did they have any sort of naval
                         capability to do so (U-boats were ship-to-ship
                         weapons); only a handful of battleships/cruisers,
                         no real amphibious force, and no aircraft carriers
                         \_ The point was to clarify the "over half of the
                            camp detainees were non Japanese".  Those
                            individuals didn't have to be there if they were
                            American citizens and didn't break any laws,
                            unlike American citizens of Japanese descent.
                            In any case, if it floats your boat to say that
                            it was right to detain all Americans of Japanese
                            descent because the Japanese COULD have invaded
                            the U.S. and Japanese-Americans COULD turn traitor
                            and spy for the enemey, and innocent Japanese-
                            Americans had to be detained in the interest of the
                            greater good, so be it, but I want to hear you say
                            it.  So far all I'm getting is "what about this,
                            what about that", "I can understand why they did
                            that", but no "They were right to intern Japanese-
                            Americans!"
                            \_ Not to defend what was done, but put yourself
                               in the position of the guy who made that
                               decision the other way, "we won't intern", on
                               8 Dec 1941. Then a Japanese invasion force
                               arrives in 1942 and is aided by some Japanese-
                               Americans. Internment was the conservative
                               (and in retrospect, unnecessary) thing to do.
                               \_ Japanese emigration has long been funded
                                  in part by the War Ministry and ultimately
                                  became a national policy in 1932.  In
                                  Manchuria, for example, the line between
                                  Japanese immigrant farmer and the military
                                  has always been somewhat blurry.  The May
                                  15th incident, where elements of the Japanese

                                  Army assasinated the local Chinese warlord,
                                  involved participation by emigre Japanese
                                  farmers.  The Japanese Kwantung Army also
                                  drew recruits and support from Japanese
                                  emigres in China.
                                  \_ I am not sure if you could equate Japanese
                                     emigration to Manchuria with emigration
                                     to US.  Since 1895, and even before, Japan
                                     had wanted to make Manchuria part
                                     of the Japanese Empire.  I don't believe
                                     you can say the same for emigrants to the
                                     US.
                                     \_ Yes, I am sure a different department
                                        in the War Ministry handled US
                                        emigration.
                                        \_ Japanese also emigrated to SE Asia
                                           to work as prostitutes.  I am sure
                                           the War Ministry had a hand in that
                                           too.  Not to mention emigration to
                                           Peru, etc.
                                           \_ Now, I am sure you are aware
                                              of the logical fallacy in your
                                              prostitution claim.
                                              \_ no I am not, please
                                                 enlighten.
                                                 \_ Emigration for prostitution
                                                    is different than emigration
                                                    for more legitimate reasons.
                                                    \_ If prostitutes managed to
                                                       emigrate without the
                                                       War Ministry's blessing,
                                                       so could other people,
                                                       (for instance, people
                                                       who emigrated to
                                                       escape poverty)
                                                       which puts a big hole
                                                       in your theory that
                                                       Japanese emigrants all
                                                       emigrated in the service
                                                       of Imperial Japan's
                                                       interests.
                                                       \_ Again, the logical
                                                          fallacies fly hard
                                                          and fast.  1. I
                                                          never said *all*
                                                          immigrants were in
                                                          the service of
                                                          Imperial Japan.
                                                          2. That all Japanese
                                                          emigre prostitutes
                                                          were unsupported by
                                                          the Japanese govner-
                                                          ment does not imply
                                                          that no other Japanese
                                                          emigres were supported
                                                          by the government.
                                     \_ Was there ever a country invaded by
                                        the Japanese in WW2 where the local
                                        Japanese immigrants did not provide
                                        material or logistic support to the
                                        invading force?
                                        \_ what are the countries where the
                                           local Japanese did provide
                                           support?  China?  Where else?
                                           \_ Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan that I
                                              know of.  Now please come up with
                                              the counter examples.
                                              \_ I am not aware of many Japanese
                                                 in Hong Kong when the Japanese
                                                 invaded.  Taiwan was
                                                 a Japanese colony since 1895.
                                                 As for Korea, are you talking
                                                 about about Korea before or
                                                 after it became a Japanese
                                                 colony.  If after, it's
                                                 irrelevant.
                                  \_ Hello, loser:  You have just written
                                     "what about this, what about that".  I am
                                     looking for "They were right to intern
                                     Japanese-Americans".
                                     \_ It's so easy to speak from your
                                        air-conditioned office in front of
                                        a computer.  I envy you your
                                        innocence.
                                        \_ It's so easy to speak from your
                                           air-conditioned office in front of
                                           a computer.  I don't envy your lack
                                           of reading comprehension.
                                           I am looking for "They were right to
                                           intern Japanese-Americans".
                                           If you think that way, just write
                                           it down!  If you don't, write
                                           that down too!  All I'm getting is
                                           "I can understand why they did
                                           that" and "what about this, what
                                           about that".
                                           \_ If I knew what I would have
                                              known then, I would have done
                                              the same thing.
                                              \_ In hindsight, was it the right
                                                 thing to do?
                                                 \_ Hard to say.  I will
                                                    allow that some innocents
                                                    were caught up in the
                                                    internment.  Will I say
                                                    that everyone interned
                                                    were wrongly so?  No.
                                                    Would some of those
                                                    interned have provided
                                                    aid to the Japanese had
                                                    they the opportunity to
                                                    do so?  I suspect so.
                                                    Is the harm prevented
                                                    greater than the harm
                                                    created?  I don't know.
                                                    \_ You know you are being
                                                       misleading when you
                                                       say "some" innocents
                                                       were caught up in the
                                                       internment?
                                                       \_ What's so misleading
                                                          about "some"?  I
                                                          think "some" is
                                                          somewhere between
                                                          none and all.  Would
                                                          I believe that "most"
                                                          of the Japanese
                                                          immigrants here would
                                                          have provided aid
                                                          to a Japanese invasion
                                                          force?  Yes.
                                                        _/
                [Keep in mind we are talking about American citizens of
                Japanese descent, not non-citizen Japanese residents]
                Lieutenant Commander Kenneth Ringle, a naval intelligence
                officer tasked with evaluating the loyalty of the Japanese
                American population, estimated in a 1941 report to his
                superiors that "better than 90% of the Nisei [second
                generation] and 75% of the original immigrants were completely
                loyal to the United States." A 1941 report prepared on
                Roosevelt's orders by Curtis B. Munson, special representative
                of the State Department, concluded that most Japanese nationals
                and "90 to 98 percent" of Japanese American citizens were
                loyal. He wrote: "There is no Japanese `problem' on the Coast
                ... There is far more danger from Communists and people of the
                Bridges type on the Coast than there is from Japanese."
                \_ Who are "people of the Bridges type"?
                   \_ Guess first, then read:
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Bridges
                \_ You mean this report?  http://csua.org/u/8z4
                   This is just the first thing google popped up searching
                   for "ringle japan".  It certainly does not say what you
                   claimed in your post.  Your URL please?
                   \_ http://csua.org/u/8z5 (Amazon.com page scan)
                      Read the rest of the page, and the next page, too.
                      Note that the point I am trying to convey to you is that
                      the vast majority of American citizens of Japanese
                      descent were loyal and were no threat to America.
                      \_ Actually, you meant the page before your reference.
                         Yours was a quote of Ringle.  Now I refer you to
                         mine, which is a part of the Ringle report itself
                         (http://csua.org/u/8z4  Where his conclusion is
                         3% (or 3500 people) are actively dangerous.
        \_ why it makes sense to order all Americans citizens of Japanese
           descent to report to your nearest detention facility!
        \_ All Americans of Arab descent will report to your nearest
           re-education facility, to be held until the War On Terror
           is over.
           \_ the scary thing is, this could very well happen.
              \_ I doubt it.  More likely is lots of Arabs are questioned
                 by the feds and iffy ones are surveiled, as if that might not
                 already be happening.  100% detention of any ethnic group
                 in America is highly unlikely, because of our prior experience
                 in this area with Japanese-American internment.
                 Yes, even if there is a nuclear detonation, I doubt there will
                 be 100% detention of American citizens of Arab descent,
                 although there will certainly be plenty of hate crimes.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:33396 Activity:nil
9/7     An oldie from Japan Today.  Asking random japanese people what
        they would do if they were foreigners.  Also a good page for
        disabusing people of the "All asians are hot" sterotype.
        http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=429&page=11
        \_ Not all Asians are hot.  Only Asian chicks are hot.
           \_ Well, the chicks on that page ain't too hot either.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:33382 Activity:insanely high
9/7     She has guts
        Malkin to speak.  Berkeley:
        http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/09/07/BAGRA8KN0U1.DTL
        \_ She probably won't be allowed to get past "Good Evening."
           Especially in this case I think the protesters would be better
           served letting her speak, since her ideas are mostly
           ridiculous, but a lot of Berkeley people just can't seem to
           help being obnoxious.
           \_ Yep.  Berkeley students don't have much respect for free speech.
              If the Daily Cal mentions her visit, the entire day's edition
              will probably be destroyed.  If she brings books with her,
              they'll most likely be burned.
        \_ I don't see how anyone can take her seriously, I read her book
           too.  I like how the guy at the end of the above story
           (who happens to be a crazed French immigrant, if that matters
           at all) says he's not convinced interning the Japanese in
           America in WW2 was such a bad thing. - danh
        \_ serious question: in the 40s, what would you do to help
           secure our safety?  I'm open to hearing different views
           \_ We should have imprisoned US residents originally from our
              enemies' ethnic or national origins, given enormous amounts
              of guns and financial aid to whoever was fighting them, ramped
              up industrial production like crazy people, then murderously
              battled them back inch by inch, island by island, hedgerow by
              hedgerow, while flattening their cities into blackened rubble
              and eventually turning whatever was left into glowing parking
              lots.  -John
           \_ We should have pulled out of the Pacific area.  The Japanese
              only used the attack at Pearl Harbor as a last resort to
              respond to our meddling in Asia.  They would have left us
              alone had we pulled out.
              \_ I think I see your reasoning, but remember that Japan and
                 Germany were allies; if the enemy of my enemy is my friend,
                 then the friend of my enemy is my enemy.
                 \_ We have no compelling interest in the defense of Europe.
                    Neither Japan nor Germany wanted to invade the US.  We
                    were the ones who drove Japan to war with us by our
                    discriminatory and crippling trade practices with them.
                    \_ Wow.  Evil motd today.  *golf clap* -- ilyas
              \_ That's really a 'hindsight is 20-20' suggestion.  At the time
                 we were interested in containing our aggressive rival.  Any
                 suggestion to pull back would probably have been seen as
                 uncalled for and cowardly.
                 \_ Someone asked how we could have secured our safety.  I
                    answered.  Would pulling out not be better for our
                    security and vastly preferable to a two-front war in
                    Europe and Asia?  The Axis powers were our enemy only
                    because we drove them to become our enemies.  They would
                    have gladly left us alone had we the wisdom to leave them
                    alone in turn.
                 \_ It's easier to think about the WW1 situation. We clearly
                    didn't have any particular need to go fight Germany then.
                    With the help of German diplomatic mistakes it was easy to
                    get the public to go along and help fight a meaningless
                    political war that set the stage for WW2.
                \_ it's impossible to pull out after Pearl Harbor. The Japs
                   were stupid to attack Pearl Harbor. If they had just kept
                   quiet in the Pacific then they'd have a much better chance
                   of dominating the Pacific.
                   \_ The Japanese also attacked America's colony
                      in the Far East and attacked and killed Americans
                      there.
        \_ The Japanese should have won. Then the world would be much more
           Asian friendly than it is now.
           \_ Japanese penis so small.
        \_ I think you're all missing the point, or at least my point,
           that Michelle Malkin is totally nuts and doesn't have
           a very deep understanding of history.   If you take her
           argument that there were several Japanese on the west coast
           and they could have caused trouble, that makes little sense.
           The people who managed the interning of the Japanese population
           did not have access to and did not know about any secret
           MAGIC Japanese military communications.  The true naval
           threat to the US, the germany navy, was very active off
           of the east coast, in the Atlantic, I have read that several
           German and Italian Americans lived on the east coast, why
           weren't they forcefully uprooted and kept in the middle
           of nowhere?  The whole fake controversy sounds like a David
           Horowitz brainstorm, does anyone really truly care today
           about reperations paid to Japanese Americans?  I never heard
           of someone writing that the internment was misunderstood
           until recently.  Does anyone remember how David Horowitz
           raised a shitstorm several years ago about reperations
           to slaves? - danh
           \_ ok i amend the above, a few italians and germans were
              interned.  not 120k of them - danh
           \_ David Horowitz will never be able to get over the fact that he
              was once a Black Panther associate and a self-styled left wing
              "radical."  He breathes the fire of the born again.  He's a
              bloviator for sure.
           \_ That you haven't heard anything about it before means nothing.
              A majority of those detained were either Japanese expatriates
              or Japanese dual citizens.  Some of these even
              returned to Japan to fight against the US.
              In other countries conquered by the Japanese the members
              of the expatriate communities were quick to establish
              Japanese surrogate governments.
              The Pacific fleet was completely destroyed, invasion was
              a very real possiblity.  Any credible military commander
              would have considered internment.  It made sense at the time,
              just as detaining German and Italian citizens did.
              \_ Reagan was fooled into apologizing for internment by a stacked
                 pro-reparations commission!
              \_ http://csua.org/u/8yf (wikipedia)
                 "Among academics, the broad historical consensus is that the
                 camps were indeed a product of wartime hysteria and racism
                 rather than arising from legitimate fears of sabotage."
                 -- When it occurred at a time I didn't live, and the area
                 has been researched this well, and I don't smell bias, and
                 historians who lived in this time came to this consensus, I
                 believe broad historical consensus, not a conservative
                 young-un born in 1970.
2004/8/27-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:33191 Activity:very high
8/27    What is it about Japan and Robots? Robotech, Mr. Roboto song,
        Honda Asimo, Sony Aibo, and all the weird Japanese robot movies.
        What's up with that?
        \_ Uhm, Styx wasn't japanese.
           \_ Yes, but they were making the same point.
        \_ I, Lobot!
        \_ Wow you're right! I bet no one ever noticed that before.
        \_ RACIST!
2004/8/26-27 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:33173 Activity:very high
8/26    How come nihon is spelled as Nippon?
        \_ Both are used in Japanese; "nippon" is the older and more formal
           pronounciation.  --mconst
        \_ Both are used in Japanese; "nippon" is the more traditional and
           formal pronounciation.  --mconst
        \_ I heard that "Nihon" was a modern (informal) creation to soften
           the "harsh" sound of the original word. --dbushong
           \_ The Daijirin dictionary dates both back to before 1200 AD.
              --mconst
        \_ Hiragana -> romanji is not a 1-1 mapping. -- ilyas
           \_ Actually, it is 1-1 mapping... except for the fact that there
              are more than one mapping.  Most commonly used mapping now is
              Hepburn system.  Either way, kana->romanji mapping has nothing
              to do with the OP's question.  "Japan," written as "day/sun"
              "main/true/book" is read both ways.
                       \_ romaji
                          \_ Heh, the word 'romaji/romanji' is the instance
                             of the same problem.  I have seen it spelled both
                             ways by Japanese.  Not a 1-1 mapping. -- ilyas
                             \_ I've seen intelligent educated people confuse
                                they're and their.  Your conclusion is
                                questionable.
                                \_ I don't know if I'd be so mean about it but,
                                   yes. "Romaji" is a Japanese word and it's
                                   spelling in kana could not be reasonably
                                   transcribed as "romanji" in English.
                                   -- ulysses
                                   \_ Except by Tokyo-ites, who have the
                                      annoying habit of adding a nasal sound
                                      before voiced consonants.  "chigau"
                                      (meaning "that's not right") often
                                      becomes "chingau," and some people will
                                      spell it that way in romaji. --erikred
2004/8/6 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:32748 Activity:nil
8/6     Right wing nutter, Michelle Malkin, on the war path against Japanese
        with her new book.
        http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/books/185162_vcenter06.html
        \_ A very good argument can be made for interning aliens
           during a war.
           \_ Yeah, but not citizens.
              \_ Almost all of the adults were not US citizens.
                 Some of their children were, but a portion of
                 these held dual citizenship.
                 Internment has significant historical precedent,
                 dating all the way back to the Enemy Alien Act of 1798.
                 \_ Still waiting for a cite on "almost all weren't citizens"
2004/6/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:30691 Activity:very high
6/9     Another from http://www.japantoday.com
        A Japanese human rights activist who was taken captive
        in Iraq in April filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the government
        seeking 5 million yen in damages on grounds that his ordeal was
        caused by Japan's dispatch of troops to the country.
        \_ Given what happened to those folks on returning to Japan, this might
           just be a rhetorical lawsuit to slap some sense into his or her
           fellow Nihonjin. It won't work. -- ulysses
        \_ can his balls be any smaller?
           \_ RACIST!
        \_ 5 million yen = $50k.  It's a symbolic gesture.
        \_ He's an idiot.  He was told not to go there in the first place
           before he went.  It's not even a symbolic gesture.  It's a stunt.
2004/6/4 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:30599 Activity:very high
6/4     http://www.japantoday.com
        Schoolgirl killer got angry at being called goody two shoes.
        Wow, guess she proved HER wrong, huh?
        \_ Maybe Michael Moore can make a movie called Blogging for Okubo in
           which he can blame the lack of social welfare, the legacy of
           Japanese Imperialism, and Japanese fear of the Black Man on this.
        \_ Oh, even better.  The first girls reponse is just RAD. -jrleek
           http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=486
           \_ LOL. Yeah, they don't have a problem with violence and the
              Internet in South Korea:
              http://csua.org/u/7l7 (Time Magazine article)
                \_ I agree. Most of the Koreans I know are self righteous
                   and arrogant and the the Korean girl in japantoday
                   proves just that.
                   \_ w00t!
        \_ Did nobody else catch THIS gem:
         TOKYO -- Disaster management minister Kiichi Inoue suggested Friday
         that women's social advancement is to blame for a recent murder case
         in which an 11-year-old girl admitted to killing her classmate at a
         primary school in Sasebo, Nagasaki Prefecture.
         "It seems to show that assertive women are increasing," the
         72-year-old Inoue told a press conference, referring to the Sasebo
         case. "It must be the first such case involving a girl," he said. "The
         gap between men and women appears to be have been narrowing recently."
        \_ japanese are weird.  I mean I am a sick person, but some of those
           japanese fetishes are sickening even for me.  I think japanese lost
           their mojo after defeat by us militarily and economically.  that
           screwed up their brains, and they couldn't find a reason to exist.
           they then become weird.
           \_ I think most of east asia would prefer they make tentacle porn
                over being invaded repeatedly
           \_ Dude, I don't think the Japanese needed any help getting weird,
              I think they managed that all on their own LONG before WWII.
              \_ they were not weird before WWII.  they were just barbaric.
                 and militaristic.  now they are weird.
                \_ they were weird before.  And that "barbarism" was a stable
                   feudalism for thousands of years- they had a centralized currency
                   before they had a central government.
                   \_ which is kinda cool if you're a minter, but not if you
                      don't want someone whacking off your head with a big
                      sword for standing in the wrong guy's shadow.
           \_ Alright, so the Japanese specialize in bukkake and the Germans
              specialize in shit eating porn. Both make great cars but also
              do weird things. Something about the Axis I tell ya.
                \_ the Axis is just a symptom... both cultures were characterized
                   by an inferiority complex that could only be remedied by taking
                   over their continent.
           \_ I used to think they were awfully weird too. The underwear in
              the vending booths, bizarro porn, Takeshi's Castle, and
              super strange cartoons. But then you think, hey, we watch a
              cartoon with a sponge that wears pants. Every culture is weird
              in its own way.
                \_ we don't have bukkake and shit eating porn.
                   \_ Uhm, yes we do -- it's just not publicized by American
                      otaku to the same degree.  And learn how to post to motd
                      correctly.
              \_ A sponge isn't weird in that sense. It's just absurd.
                 Anthropomorphic household items are common in cartoons.
2004/6/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:30518 Activity:very high
6/1     hmm, the thread got deleted before I could admit I was wrong.
        Japan *did* offer to "surrender" before the dropping of the bombs.
        On the condition that they maintain sovereignty.  The eventual
        surrender, was, though, still conditioned on the continued titular
        reign of the emperor.  -phuqm
        \_ Once the bombs fell, and Stalin decided he wanted a piece of the
           pie, Japan just surrendered.  The Emperor was kept because the
           Americans thought keeping him would ease the occupation. -- ilyas
           \_ I agree that the Americans thought it may be advantageous to
              keep him, that doesn't change the fact that it was a requested
              and accepted condition. -phuqm
              \_ http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/japsurr.html  Search for
                 'unconditional'. -- ilyas
                        \_ I may possibly be unduly stretching the idea of
                        "conditional", but (see the other link) it does
                         still appear to me that they asked for it, and if
                         they did, and we implicitely accepted this
                         condition (even if we would have allowed it
                         anyway), then it is conditional regardless of how
                         many times the surrender document signed by some
                         general says "unconditional".
                         The roads are called "highways" in the legal code
                         However if you say that it is legal for you to
                         ride your bicycle on the highways, I will still
                         argue with you. -phuqm
              \_ It was not requested.  The idea of surrender was so out there
                 for most members of the public (although not for several
                 of the Jap cabinet, like PM Suzuki)--you have to remember
                 that the Emperor's voice had not even been heard in public
                 for years before a recording of his reading the surrender
                 was played on Japanese radio.  It barely occurred to anyone
                 that the Emperor might not be around at some point.
                 MacArthur saw it as a wise move to use some parts of the
                 Japanese authority structure to ease occupation.  -John
            \_ This is untrue.  The japanese were beseeching the Russians
               to change sides until the last days of the war.  The Japanese
               Imperial Army was almost completely intact in Indochina with
               several army groups.
        \_ phuqm, please post a link or reference for your belif.  I have
           never read anything that suggested the Japanese unconditional
           surrender was really conditioned on the continuation of the
           Emperor, although I have read the opposite several times.
           Link?  -jrleek
        \_ This is untrue.  The japanese were beseeching the Russians
           to change sides until the last days of the war.  The Japanese
           Imperial Army was almost completely intact in Indochina with
           several army groups.
               \_ This is from your link: "...the Emperor must be
                  left on the Imperial Throne. The Allies replied
                  that the Emperor would be subject to the Allied
                  Occupation Commander."  Now, i'm well aware that
                  it was called an "unconditional surrender" (and
                  was before i typed the above), but the above is
                  a CONDITION that that was requested and accepted.
                  The fact that he was subject to the Allied Command
                  is irrelevant to my point accept that it
                  ACKNOWLEDGES the fact that the position WILL
                  continue to exist (the condition).
                 --Having read Ilyas' link, though, i'd have to say
                   that my postion is weaker than that article makes
                   out, the only support being an explicit reference
                   to "The authority of the Emperor" (which again is
                   assumed in the legal document, as it is being
                   put down).  -phuqm
                   \_ Really, the problem is that this isn't a reasonable
                      debate.  Go read any comprehensive history of the
                      Japanese Occupation.  It's very clear the MacAurthur
                      had the power to remove the emperor, he just
                      descided not to.  The effect was similar though, the
                      emperor was demoted from divine to amusing
                      tradition.  Hence the nearly completely secular
                      Japan we have today. -jrleek
                        \_ if they removed the Emperor the Japanese would
                           have fought to the very last man, and the entire
                           country would have been a giant graveyard.  My great-
                           grandmother was trained with all her fellow villagers
                           with bamboo spears to fight the American invaders,
                           because they were sure the Americans were going to
                           come into the country raping and pillaging.  -brain
                                \_ uh, are you a mix? you sure don't look
                                   like a Nip.          -pro atomic bomb man
                           \_ I'm not exactly sure about how it would have
                              come about, but I think any removal would
                              have been well after the surrender.  That
                              would make it seem a bit late for the bamboo
                              spears.  Especially since the Emperor was
                              responsible for the surrender.  That site
                              mentions that there was an attempted coup to
                              keep fighting, but I think the regular
                              people would have gone with the emperor.
                              That is, no bamboo spears.  Plus, the
                              Americans came bearing food... -jrleek
                        \_ people have the "power" to break many
                           agreements they make, or laws enacted.  That
                           has little relevance to this arg. -phuqm
                           \_ So, basically you believe there was some
                              kind of secret deal made with Emperor that
                              has been kept so secret for the last 60
                              years you're the only one who knows about
                              it?  In that case, I guess you're right. I
                              can't argue with that. -jrleek
                      \_ wasn't emperor just an amusing figure head
                         through long periods of japan's history?
                         wasn't shogun the guy with real power?  even
                         during ww2, emperor only has limited power,
                         right?
                         \_ Somewhat correct.  Even when the Emperor had no
                            actual power (under the Tokugawa Shogunate), he
                            was respected as the divine son of Heaven. The
                            rallying cry of the Meiji Restoration (which
                            removed the Shogunate from power) was the renewed
                            respect for the authority of the Emperor. After
                            the Meiji Restoration, the Emperor was perceived
                            as the beloved father-figure and leader of all
                            Japan, even though the actual running of the war
                            was done by Tojo and his upper level circle of
                            officers.  The repudiation of the policies of that
                            inner circle is what allows the Emperor to both
                            admit culpability (and mortality) while still
                            remaining Emperor.
                         \_ That's what the emperor wanted the world to believe
                            when he surrendered.
                            \_ the ww2 emperor does have some power, more
                               so than the emperors under say tokugawa
                               shogunate, but even his power is rather
                               limited.
                            \_ the emperor is an important figurehead- he
                                is directly decended from gods.  To maintain a
                                valid claim to power, you have to have the
                                emperor still alive.  What the Meiji Restoration
                                was about was the emperor siezing back his
                                power from the shogun, with the backing of some
                                of the larger houses and the merchants who
                                would directly benefit from the new reforms
                                he hadin mind.          -brain
2004/5/31-6/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:30517 Activity:high
5/31    According to the History Channel, in WW2, the Japanese targetted
        mainly at big targets (battleships, cruisers, military airfields,
        etc) so didn't really hit civilian ships (food, support, etc)
        the way Germans did with their U-boats. In contrast the US targetted
        a lot of Japanese civilian sites. Why didn't the Japanese do the
        same thing? Were they afraid of retaliation or something?
        \_ The Japanese couldn't.  The Japanese correctly determined that they
           needed to destroy the American carriers first, which they failed to
           do (while losing theirs) at Midway.  Before Midway, they didn't have
           the control of the seas necessary to target infrastructure.  After
           Midway, they had bigger problems. -- ilyas
           \_ They had control of the seas prior to June 1942, and used it
              to attack any infrastructure they could (Philippines, India,
              Singapore, Australia, China, etc.)  Fact is that there wasn't
              nearly as much commercial or large-scale civilian shipping in
              the western Pacific for them to attack.  As for the carriers,
              imperial naval war games had seen their destruction as a
              "nice to have", but weren't particularly concerned when they
              realized that Adm. Kimmel had ordered them out of Pearl Harbor.
              The Japanese advances in 1942 were more focused on securing a
              buffer "rampart" against American attacks on Japanese oil
              transports from the Dutch E. Indies than the actual offensive
              destruction of US power after 1941.  Midway was just another
              attempt to deny the US a forward base, rather than part of
              a strategic offensive against US shipping or the W. Coast. -John
              \_ There was shipping, it's just that after the Japanese
                 simultaneously attacked Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Dutch
                 E. Indies and the Philippines, all civilian shipping
                 in the Western Pacific, South China Sea and the Strait of
                 Melaka, except those serving Japanese interest, pretty
                 much stopped.  I would bet there were still some ships
                 going from India to Australia, and from Australia to
                 the US though.
                 the US though.  Also, the Japanese had their hands full
                 protecting their own shipping, and did have have
                 protecting their own shipping, and did not have have
                 the resources to send uboats all over the Pacific
                 and Indian Oceans.  Compared to Germany, Japan is
                 much less self sufficient in terms of resources.
                 \_ Hence "not nearly as much".  The Japanese also never had
                    a coherent submarine strategy.  -John
        \_ Because most of the fighting took place in their waters.
        \_ Don't forget what the Japanese did in Korea and China.
           \_ also Burma and the Philippines.
        \_ The Japanese didn't have the resources. They were fighting a land
           war in Asia and they couldn't forward base any naval power (as
           America would be able to do in Austrailia). Attacks against America
           were limited to military targets out of necessity. Attempts to
           strike the US mainland were nearly non-existant. The goal was to
           control the Pacific, not to conquer the US.
2004/5/31 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30508 Activity:insanely high
5/31    Memorial Day question. Rather than launching D-Day, invading
        Der Vatherland, and getting thousands and thousands of our GIs killed
        (esp. on Omaha Beach), why didn't we just strike a deal with the
        Axis in order to save more lives? What exactly did we gain from
        unconditional surrender? German gold? (not really) German art? (no)
        German women? (maybe) German technology? (yes)
        \_ Part of it was prior commitments to the Russians.  The Allies were
           trying to prevent the Eastern Front from collapsing.
           Of course you may argue that by 1944, it wasn't going to collapse
           regardless of what the Allies did.  Part of it was probably
           realpolitik considerations -- the cost of invading Europe was
           deemed acceptable given the influence the US would achieve in the
           post-war world on the continent.  The US didn't want to leave the
           entire Europe to the Russians.  You may note the US never invaded
           Japan -- the costs outweighed the benefits there. -- ilyas
           \_ Ummm... we were sure PLANNING to invade Japan, the only
              reason we didn't was because to A-bomb worked so well.
              \_ Of course we did.  I claim the US would not have invaded even
                 without the A-bomb.  The US would have negotiated a surrender.
                 The invasion was simply not worth it.  Invasion planning is
                 something the military guys do, because it is their job.
                 The call of whether to invade or not rests with the politicians
                 and if their heads are on straight, they make the right call.
                   -- ilyas
                   \_ The US was not just planning but was going through all
                      the motions required to do so.  I know guys who were
                      in holding areas waiting for the final word to load up
                      in boats and head to the main land.  They wrote their
                      letters home and expected to die until it was called
                      off after the bomb was dropped.
                   \_ DAMN STRAIGHT!!  Actually, I don't think it's clear
                      either way.  It bothers me that 99% of people are
                      certain that the A-BOMB was neccesary to end the war.
                      I think it's an open question with valid points on
                      either side.
                      \_ There are different ways to end a war.  Some are
                         better than others.  A simple cessation of fighting
                         without a change in leadership like post-WWI Germany
                         only sets everyone up for round 2.
                 \_ It all depends on whether Japan/Germany would be
                    willing to surrender. Threat of invasion made for a
                    stronger case. So did the defeat of Germany.
                 \_ I respectfully disagree.  As I recall, the Japanese
                    had already offered to surrender, on the condition
                    that the Emperor be allowed to keep his position.
                    However, removing the emperor and forcing him to admit
                    his not-godhood is basically what permenantly
                    destroyed the Japanese empire.  It's kinda like what
                    would happen to the middle east if we could kick
                    Mohammed's butt and force him to admit that he isn't
                    really a prophet. There just wouldn't be much reason
                    to fight anymore.
                     \_ How long has this been up here?  This is wrong.
                        There is *still* a Japanese emporer.  The Japanese
                        had *not* offered to surrender.  After the bombs were
                        dropped, they surrendered WITH the above condition
                        (that the emprorer be allowed to keep his position).
                        Jeesh, and the guy below thinks that everyone here
                        should know why we launched D-Day. -phuqm
                        \_ You should.  It was only one of the most important
                           military and possibly non-military history events
                           in the last 100+ years.  It only formed the world
                           as we know it today.  Maybe you think who Britney
                           is dating is more important?
                        \_ Wow phuqm.  I'm really impressed you signed
                           your name to a statement showing such amazing
                           ignorance.  Offer of Japanese surrender
                           rejected: http://csua.org/u/7j9 Note that it
                           mentions that the Emporer would be subject to
                           the American military commander.  The Emperor
                           surrendered UNCONDITIONALY after the A-bomb.
                           In other words, he gave up the throne.
                           MacArthur allowed him to continue as emperor,
                           but the magic was gone.  Now he was just some
                           dude. So, in conclusion, there is still
                           an emperor, but he is no longer a demi-god.
                           -jrleek
        \_ Is this a lame troll or are you just a product of the American
           edjumuhkayshunal system?
        \_ Because after spending years villifying the Germans and Japanese
           in an attempt to cajole the United States public into believing
           that WWII was a just cause, FDR became a victim of his own
           propaganda. There was just no way politically that the United
           States would have accepted less than victory over "the Hun"
           especially when it seemed so close at hand.
           \_ well said well said.  everything above is boring junk
              until this.
2004/4/28 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:13442 Activity:nil
4/28    This is why Japanese girls are trying to marry outside Japan:
http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9416321%255E13762,00.html
        \_ Step 3: Profit!
2004/3/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:12625 Activity:very high 80%like:12624
3/11    Did Japan ever have a chance of winning WWII?
        \_ I don't know about Germany, but Japan really should have stopped
           in 1931 and consolidated its gains of Korea and Manchuria.  It
           could've been 3 times its current size in area and population.
           \_ If you can read some of the Japanese text, you will know that
              the reason why Japanese continue to fight China is because
              Japanese know very well that they can't consolidate their
              gains in Manchuria unless China is fully subdued.
              \_ yea, written by those same Japanese who thought they
                 could attack US and still win the war.  The Japanese
                 warmongering militarists wrote that cause they need
                 war to advance their careers and keep them in power.
                 \_ Both sides underestimated each other. The US never thought
                    Japan would attack. Japan thought the US would roll over.
           \_ I agree.  But the American industrial machine would have
              been to strong.
              \_ They are not at war with the US, and not even with
                 China.  War restarted with China in 1937 when Japan
                 invaded other parts of China.
           \_ They had food, but they needed oil and rubber.
              \_ Not if they didn't start another war with China by
                 invading in 1937.  US is happily trading with Japan
                 until like a year before 1941?
                 \_ yup, selling scrap metals, oils, and all the good stuff
                    which fueled Japanese imperial army's machinary.
           \_ i dont' understand this, why so many people on MOTD *WISH*
              Japan has consolidated their conquest?
              \_ motd full of crazy asian people.  My car so haaaaa!
              \_ I don't think wish is the key word.
        \_ No. The Japanese wanted the US to accept their annexation of
           southeast Asia, making them the major power of the Pacific. The US
           would never have agreed to cede that region to Japan. The US had
           claimed the Pacific as their ocean.
           \_ Philippines was a US Colony.  If Japan invades the Philippines,
              it is declaring war on the US
              \_ Wrong part of SE Asia. Think Indonesia. Oil and rubber. The
                 Japanese would never had touched US territories if the US
                 hadn't put the hammer down on trade. SE Asia had most of what
                 Japan had been trading for with the US.
                 \_ skipping the Philippines and Taiwan to get to
                    Indonesia is strange.  Indonesia is south of
                    the Philippines.
                    \_ Yes, you are correct. Lesson time! US no trade -> Japan
                       must find other oil -> Oil in SE Asia -> Japan knows US
                       not let Japan get oil -> Japan invade PI, maybe Hawaii
                       to scare US -> Japan screw up in Hawaii -> US eventually
                       kick Japan ass.
2004/1/29-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:12012 Activity:moderate
1/29    "Lost in Translation"  was it really that good?  Nominated for best
        picture.  I haven't seen it yet. Will our fabulous motd movie critic
        give us a review?  Thanks.
        \_ I thought it blew chunks, but I was in the minority I guess.
           Scarlett Johansenn (sp?) is just not that good an actress, and as
           much as I love Bill Murray he had scarcely anything to do.  This
           is besides the fact that it recycles yet again some really tired
           cliches about Japan.  However, the Academy Awards picks this year
           are on the whole amazingly good (3 nominations for City of God!!!).
           In fact I'd be surprised if most Americans had a chance to see
           most of the nominated movies.
           \_ Seabiscuit? ... SEABISCUIT?!
              \_ "on the whole"...of course they had to nominate some crap,
                 but notice that Harvey Weinstein Oscar Bait (tm) like Cold
                 Mountain mostly got snubbed.  Hey usually the Oscars are
                 100% Seabiscuit-like, so I was impressed.
                 \_ Seabiscuit is one of the best movies I have seen in
                    the past few years and deserves to win. The "crap"
                    that was nominated was ROTK (and its predecessors).
                    \_ I agree with you, in part.  LOTR sucked monkey nuts.
                       Sea Biscuit is not fit to clean stables with.
                       \_ I think soda has got to be one of the only
                          places where you will find people that dislike
                          the LoTR movies.  Odd, that.
                          \_ It's not necessarily "dislike."  It's just that
                             there are so many better choices.
                             \_ I liked them all, but they are not worthy
                                of an Oscar. If they are then Raiders of
                                the Lost Ark should've swept the Oscars, baby!
                       \_ Just when you thought the trolls were safely stowed
                          in the movie....
        \_ Good?  Yes.  Best Picture?  No.
        \_ I thought it was interestingly ambiguous, but not wholly
           satisfying.  -tom
        \_ Good.  Not great.  IMO, Academy voters voted this in because
           Bill Murray's character said "I want to eat healthier ... eat
           Japanese food", and all the fatties agreed.
        \_ I thoroughly enjoyed it, but then I did live in Japan for six
           years, which probably explains why the rest of the audience didn't
           laugh as hard as I did.  Best Picture?  I don't know about that...
           Bill Murray does the sad clown very well. --erikred
        \_ For a relaxing time, make it Suntory Time.
           \_ Have any Sodans tried Suntory Whiskey?  How is it?
              \_ Overpriced and mediocre. Many salary-men drink it watered
                 down (mizu-wari), which is even worse.
        \_ Do you like the feeling of alienation?
        \_ review in comic form: http://www.geocities.com/cogsci127/lint.gif
        \_ I think it is amusing that all the whities that have been to
           Japan say that it is a good study of Japanese culture, while
           the Japanese claim that it is racist.
           \_ Funny I haven't heard that from my own pool of whities. All of
              those I know who have been to Japan including myself say it's
              a great film for the experience of being in metro Japan - that's
              different from being a "good study of Japanese culture".
           \_ Funny, I've heard P.C. white people saying it's racist, and
              Japanese people saying they didn't find anything offensive.
           \_ My Japanese wife thought it was hilarious. Neither of us think
              it's a good study of Japanese culture. It's a good study of
              what it's like to be jet-lagged and culture-shocked in Tokyo.
              It's not racist-- the gag is that Bill Murray is confused and
              tired, not that the Japanese are weird. --erikred
                \_ Dude.  Sorry.  They are weird.  Nice, terribly civilized,
                   very polite, cultured, but fucking weird.  -John
                   \_ Actually, the culture is majorly fucked up, and
                      the "weirdness" is the natural result of that.
                   \_ This coming from the man who lives in Switzerland?
                      I think we're back to the pot-kettle relationship.
                      ...nothing against Switzerland, mind you, I'm just
                      saying....  --erikred
                \_ A brief look at, say, Japanese cartoons makes me think,
                   wow, Japan is the weirdest country ever. I mean, there's
                   some seriously bizarre stuff. Then I think, well, we in
                   America watch a cartoon starring a sponge wearing pants,
                   and I think pot, kettle, black.
                   \_ While I agree with you in principle, I hafta say; I've
                      never seen DVDADO tentacle porn featuring underage
                      virginal school girls in any popular american animation.
                      The Japanese certainly seem to have some strange...err...
                      never seen DVDADO tentacle porn on underage virginal
                      school girls in any popular american animation.  The
                      Japanese certainly seem to have some strange...err...
                      interests.
                      \_ Hi Eli!  What is it with you and tentacle porn?
                            \_ Mmmm...Tentacle porn...
                      Japanese certainly seem to have some strange...err...
                      interests.
                      \_ Hi Eli!  What is it with you and tentacle porn?
                         \_ I SO did not post that.  I don't like tentacle
                            porn.  What are you talking about, Mr. Anonymous
                            Troll? --lye
                            \_ Mmmm...Tentacle porn...
                      \_ Hehe, and this is the trap: all you get from Japan
                         is the weird tentacle fetish stuff, so you assume
                         that that's all they watch. All they get from the
                         US is cop dramas about solving your problems with
                         guns, so they assume that we're obssessed with guns
                         and violence. If you can't see the communication
                         gap, you're not looking hard enough. --erikred
                         \_ Except the Japanese would be right.
              \_ RACIST!
        \_ I thought it was fantastic.  But i think everyone would agree
           that it's worth seeing.  If you're in the mood for a movie and
           you're willing to spend the $9, then go see this film.  It is
           better than 90% of the crap that's out there.  90%, not 99%.
2003/12/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:29735 Activity:high
12/23   So I'm a bit perplexed about the Nurenberg (sp?) trials and the
        trials in Japan. Many of the Japanese class A-C defendands were
        excuted for War Against Humanity, and that is cool. But what about
        dropping the atomic bomb? Shouldn't the Japanese have their own
        trials against say, MacArthur and others who dropped the a-bomb
        and killed many Japanese civilians? What about bombing of Dresden,
        Germany which has absolutely of no military value and was primairily
        meant to demoralize the German civilians? Isn't that also considered
        Crime Against Humanity?
        \_ Nuremberg, if you are going to comment on history at least read
           up on it. As for trials against MacArthur (who actually didn't
           authorize the use of the atomic bomb, it was
           actually Truman, so you got that wrong also) that's totally
           preposterous. How about you Japs formally apologizing for what
           you did at the Rape of Nanking, Pearl Harbor  and other
           atrocities inflicted upon the world. We didn't start the war
           with the Japs, you started it with us, so I think making
           Hiroshima and Nagasaki glow in the dark for a couple months
           is worth saving countless American lives as well as getting
           rid of the Jap scourge across Asia. In total, some 8-9 million
           people died directly due to Jap aggression, that's way more than the
           numbers in the holocaust. As for Germans, I'm sure
           the Russian and Jewish community will have the appropriate numbers
           on how many people were lost, since Russia lost the most lives
           due to Hitler. So, no, I don't think your neo-nazi sympathies
           are justified. Oh yeah, you're welcome for the U.S. rebuilding
           Japan into a viable nation after the war (instead of turning it
           into a wasteland).
        \_ A. No we won.  B. No, the atomic bomb does not even begin to
           compare with the sort of purposeful burtal cruelty the Japanese
           perpetrated on the Chinese, Koreans, etc.  C. No. the atomic
           bomb was much kinder than an invasion would have been. D.
           Quiet troll.  Read some history.
           \_ so you're saying that the WMD is more humane than hand to hand
              combat that the Japs were engaged in. Ok.
                \_ how about bombing of Dresden, the culture of Europe, the
                   place where it's revered for art and music? The place
                   that has very little military value?
                   \_ But I heard it was the hub for moving German troops.
                   \_ Dresden was the third largest transhipment point for
                      German war material.  As we all know fighting
                      a war is all about logistics.
                      STORICAL ANALYSIS OF THE 14-15 FEBRUARY 1945
                      BOMBINGS OF DRESDEN
                      http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/PopTopics/dresden.htm
           \_ Dresden may have had some minor military value in terms of
              transport but it had no military presence and was packed
              with refugees from the eastern areas. It was openly meant to
              "destroy the will for war" and all that, which of course is
              ridiculous in a dictatorship and anyway none of the people in
              that city were having any nice thoughts about war by that point.
              I don't know the figures but in 1945 troop transport was the
              least of Germany's problems.
              \_ It is not as ridiculous as you might think.  Germany may have
                 been a dictatorship, but Hitler and his band of merry men
                 were keenly aware of the public mood, and took great pains
                 to manipulate it for their ends (the propaganda office and
                 the obvious talent of Joseph Goebbels are a witness to this).
                 A dictatorship needs to worry about civilian morale more,
                 not less, than a democracy in time of war.  This isn't civ,
                 it's real life.  -- ilyas
            \_ I can only imagine this post (about the Japanese
                atocracties being hand-to-hand combat) must be either posted
                by either A. a troll or B. The stupidest and most ignorant
                japan otaku on the motd.  I guess you never heard about the
                rape on Nanking? Or the POW torture camps? Or the "comfort
                women?"  Or anything else?
                \_ Or the Unit 731 germ warfare unit.
2003/12/16-17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:11487 Activity:high
12/16   Do Japanese companies ever make killing games (e.g. killing Germans,
        police squad, sniper games, etc)? I've noticed that most of the
        Konami games are like DDR with cartoony characters. Even Virtua
        Cop looks cartoony. Do they have laws against violence or somethin'?
        \_ No really, you aren't that stupid, right?
          \_ no really, after killing about 100 Jap soldiers in Medal of
             Honor Rising Sun, I started to wonder why Japanese companies
             don't make games that kill American soldiers and glorify
             Japanese Imperialism.
             \_ Because we were the good guys and the modern Japanese want
                to set themselves apart from their evil WWII selves.
             \_ Now I'm curious. Do Germans play Medal of Honor Allied
                Assault? Do they play Wolfenstein? Do Japanese play
                Rising Sun? Do Vietnamnese play Vietcong?
                \_ http://penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-11-26&res=l
                        \_ rave reviews? That IS kind of odd. Thx for the lnk
2003/12/14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:11449 Activity:kinda low
12/13   If the Japanese never attacked Pearl Harbor, would America still
        have bothered attacking Japan?
        \_ The Japanese thought so.
        \_ after they took over all of asia, the US would probably start
           to think about it.  And yes, that was the plan!
        \_ If pigs learned to fly, would hell freeze over?
           \_ If frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their asses so much.
        \_ Japan would have attacked the Philippines, and the United States
           controlled the Philippines, so they would have still been
           in the war.
        \_ Eventually, possibly.  The US were fairly preoccupied with Europe
           at the time.  -John
        \_ It's hard for Japan not to attack USA.  USA cut scrap iron and
           petroleum export to Japan (two most important thing for Japanese),
           USA was also providing fighter planes and military training
           /consulting  to the Chinese nationalist army.  USA's gunboat
           was patroling up and down the Yanzi River (attending the so-called
           property of free-trade).   Not that I like Japan, but USA was
           engaging in act of war against Japan well before the Pearl Harbor.
           \_ Hey, asian nationalist troll, you should meet up for drinks
              with chicom troll.  You'd get on like gangbusters.  -John
                \_ John is an intelligent fella. Yep.
              \_ I heard this viewpoint, as well. There is some merit
                 to it. -!op
        \_ US doesn't need to attack Japan.  It can screw Japan in many
           other ways.  Japan has itself to blame though for stupidly
           attacking China, which is too big for it to swallow, even when
           KMT and CCP can't be bothered to fight Japan, preferring to
           save strength to fight each other.  US is bad country too,
           occupying Filipines, forcing Japan to trade with US, and
           messing around in China (helping the Manchu dynasty against
           Taiping rebels, selling opium in China, etc.).  However US
           did do a few good things once in a while, like whacking
           Japanese Imperialists, spreading Christianity in China,
                                  \_ and that was good... how?
           and returning boxer-rebellion "reparation" money to China to
          today graduated from.  Most of Tsinghua's graduates love to
          come to US, at least used to.
           build schools like Tsinghua (Qinghua) University,
           from which all these commie sotware programmers we see
           today graduated from.  Most of these commie Tsinghua's
           graduates love to come to US, at least used to.
                                - the I-want-to-confuse-John troll
                \_ US did a few good things, like spreading Christianity?
2003/12/1-2 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:29674 Activity:very high
12/1    How many American civilians did the Japanese kill during WW2?
        \_ Wrong Q.  Ask how many Chinese/Filipino/Burmese/Cambodian/
           Malay/Indochinese they killed.  -John
           \_ John's right.  The Japanese killed a lot of Civilians
              in Southeast Asia.  The Americans liberated them.
           \_ You're leaving out a huge group... the Koreans.
        \_ How many babies did American GIs kill in Vietnam?
           \_ A lot less than the number of civilians killed/enslaved by
              the Japs during WWII.
              \_ Japanese, please.
                 \_ He's a persistent little autistic fuck, ain't he?  I'm
                    beginning to wonder if he does that on purpose just to
                    tick people off -- you know, exercise what little power
                    he has in his dorky little world.
                 \_ Can we say "Japs" means imperial Japanese?
                    \_ Can you type four more fucking characters?
                       \_ I was looking for a term that's analogous to "Nazis"
                          instead of "Germans".
                          \_ Tojos?
                          \_ Imperial Japanese
              \_ 5 Million Vietnamese died in the American War. This is
                 far, far more than the number of Vietnamese killed by
                 the Japanese.
                 \_ I enjoy the communist revisionist history. The Vietnamese
                    Civil War lasted over three decades and began with the
                    French right after WWII. And if you think the Vietnamese
                    really like communism, why does every gook I meet want
                    to bring their whole family over to run a donut shop in
                    LA?
           \_ how many grenades where planted on babies by Vietnamese?
              way more than accidentally killed by GIs, way fricken more.
              \_ url please
        \_ I'd actually like this question answered if possible.  What is
           the total # of Iraqi casualties in the latest war + occupation?
2003/11/24-25 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:11212 Activity:high
11/24   How effective were kamikazi pilots? For example, for each suicide
        committed, how many enemy deaths resulted?
        \_ You shouldn't just count deaths but damage to equipment.  I'd say
           the disabling of a carrier is a very good trade for one life.
           BTW, this is a tactical, not ethical calculus.
           \_ It should be one life plus one plane.  But I agree that it's a
              very good tactical trade.
           \_ Was one plane generally enough to disable a carrier? I suppose
              if they smashed into the bridge, yes?
              \_ It was generally a stripped-down fighter plane which was
                 packed solid with explosives.  They then would try to go
                 straight into the bridge.
                 \_ Why didn't they just drop the explosives, go home and come
                    back with more explosives?
                    \_ By the time they were using kamikaze tactics, the US
                       had way more planes.  Even if they managed to hit the
                       bridge with a bomb (which is hard), they would almost
                       certainly be destroyed by US fighters and AA guns.
                       \_ search for the Marianas Turkey Shoot.  US
                          was dominating towards the end of the war.
                          Kamikaze's were desperation attacks.
        \_ ^kamikaze pilots^Iraqi suicide bombers
        \_ kamikaze (kami: god/spirit/divine; kaze: wind.  from the Divine
           wind that smashed the Mongol Invasion Fleet, thereby saving Japan)
           \_ actually, the storms drove back a few such fleets.
              \_ Mongols were good on horsebacks.  I wonder how they did on
                 water, let alone at sea.
                 \_ They had problems against Japan, and against
                    Sumatra/Java (sea plus tropical rainforest means
                    horses are useless) in present day Indonesia.
                    They were surprisingly good at taking cities
                    though.
        \_ At the time, the Japanese pilot corps was severely depleted,
           with several experienced pilots shot down/killed already.  The
           pilots who took their place were of lesser experience and training.
           They were not up to dogfighting against more experienced Allied
           pilots (primarily US) but were just fine for ramming into carriers
           just a note.
        \_ No, they were not terribly effective. The numbers are 4,000
           kamikaze pilots killed 15,000 sailors and damaged 300 ships,
           including sinking 2 escort carriers and 3 destroyers. Most of
        \_ No, they were not terribly effective.
           the damage was caused by initial successes (surprise). Once the
           Americans figured out what the Japanese were doing and changed
           tactics they were not nearly as effective.
        \_ not very effective.  Kamikaze's were desperation acts.
           I recommend the History Channel's specials on Kamikaze's
           (Divine Wind)
        \_ http://www.worldwariihistory.info/WWII/American.html
        \_ japan has severe pilot shortage and severe fuel shortage
           means that they had problem training new pilots.  so they
           decided to do kamikaze.  japan in ww2 is nation gone mad.
           if they had some self control and stopped after capturing
           manchuria, they might have been able to keep it (and
           taiwan and korea) until today, making japan a much bigger
           nation.
           \_ the issue was that they couldn't completely control Manchuria
              without completely elimate China.  Despite their initial
              success, Japan was having a material shortage, which force
              them invade Indonisia, Maylysia for robber and other raw
              material.  It is a classic example of mission creep gone mad.
              One stragetic mistake they made, in my mind,  was declare war
              on America.  Despite that United States were by no mean
              neutral before the conflict, Japan would of better off without
              bombing Pearl Harbor and invade Philopine.
              \_ Bingo!  We have a winner!  Bombing Pearl Harbor was a huge
                 mistake and some of the Japanese high command knew it at the
                 times.  There was no reason to attack the US at that point.
2003/11/17 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:11102 Activity:high
11/16   Search for Hitler on eBay has over 1300+ items. Search for Hirohito
        on eBay has 19 items. Both are evil killers, why is Hitler 68X
        more popular than Emperor Hirohito?
        \_ Here we are again at the Troll Olympics folks!  Our latest
           contestant shows good form by mentioning the Japanese and "evil"
           in the same sentence, but tips his hand with the Hitler reference.
           We're afraid that this particular Troll won't make it past the
           qualifying round, but we'd like to thank him for playing anyway.
           \_ he got almost 2 pages.  that's not bad.  no one picked up on
              his use of the word 'popular' in reference to hitler though.
        \_ this is a pretty great troll.  However, comparing Hirohito to
           Hitler is a little inaacurate.  Your bogeyman is Tojo, not the
           Emperor.  During WWII, the Nazis didn't hate the British royalty...
           they hated Churchill.  It's similar with Japan.      -brain
        \_ ebay is an American site, and is in English.  How many
           Americans even know who Hirohito was?  How many Americans
           can name even one post-war Japanese leader?  Everyone's
           seen Indiana Jones and knows what a Nazi is.
        \_ people still believe that Hirohito (aka the Showa Emperor) was
           a doddering old puppet ruler who had little control over the
           actions of the Japanese military and government.  This is a
           myth that was fostered by the MacArthur regime in post-war
           Japan to protect a useful figurehead.  Also, Japan, despite
           doing some pretty atrocious things, never did it on quite the
           scale that Nazi Germany (or the USSR for that matter) did.  --Jon
           \_ Jon.  As a Chinese, I find your ignorance extremely offensive
              and insulting. Compare with what Japanese has done to the
              Chinese, gas chamber actually looks pretty darn humane by
              compareson.  The casualty on Chinese side is estimated
              between 20-30 million.

              At least you are not trying to hide your racist view.
                                        -kngharv
              \_ Are they 20-30 million civilian casualties or war casualties?
                 Not to trivialize these deaths, but there is a distinction,
                 as far as warcrimes are concerned.
                 \_ No, it doesn't matter whether it was 2m civilians or 20m
                    civilians.  What the Japanese did to the Chinese was on
                    the same level of evil as what the Nazis did the Jews.
                        \_ It does matter.
                    \_ You are stuck in a conversational autopilot.  Read
                       the question again.  I didn't ask for exact numbers,
                       I asked if the casualties were soldiers or civilians.
                       There is a distinction.  For instance, Russia lost
                       huge quantities of troops fighting the Germans.
                       While regrettable, such casualties are not a cause
                       for initiating a war crimes trial (instead this is
                       handled by reparations at the end of the war).
                       \_ Most of the Chinese casualties were civilians.
                          Others were like peasants attacking Japanese
                          troops with a cooking knife.  Are those
                          troops with cooking knives when the Japanese
                          tried to burn down their village.  Are those
                          considered civilians?
              \_ trolling is fun.
           \_ They hanged Tojo, the leader of the military government. There
              was no need to hang the Emperor, as he was only tangentally
              linked to the Pan-Pacific Co-Prosperity Sphere plan.
           \_ Mao killed 85-100 Million, so Hirojito's massacres kind
              of pale in comparison.
              \_ Japanese warlords killed millions and millions of
                 Japanese though centuries of constant warfare, yea,
                 so let's just drop a few more nukular bombs on Japan.
                 Besides, if the Japanese didn't invade, CKS would
                 probably have squashed Mao.  China in the 1920s and
                 early 30s was improving until the Japanese invaded.
                 Also, your figures of 85-100 million sounds high to
                 me.  Most of the deaths came during the GLF which
                 is severe famine exacerbated by extremely misguided
                                  \_ thanks, corrected.
                 policies, but the figure for that is generally
                 estimated to be about 20-30 million.
        \_ I think there are still many white trashed pro-Nazi,
                \_ and I assume you're also while but don't see yourself
           pro-White/Blond views out there who admire Hitler and his evil
           ideals. On the other hand, Asians, including Japs, care more
                                                        \_ why do you people
                                                           keep using this
                                                           offensive term?
                \_ It's short for "Jewish American Princess"!
           about work, marriage, houses, stock portfolios and don't really
           care about world domination and ethnic purification, hence they
           don't really care about Emperor Hirohito.
           \_ Get over your bad self:  You're not finding as many items
              for Hirohito because 1) you're not searching in Japanese, and
              2) right-wing fanatics in Japan who would trade in this sort
              of thing know each other and don't need to demean the honor
              of the late Emperor by placing his items on ebay.  Do a search
              for holy relics some time.
                \_ "holy relic" came up with 43 items on eBay.
           \_ Nice way to insult two races at once.  That's a nifty bit of
              racism on your part.  I'm guessing you're white but don't see
              yourself as *that* kind of white but some genetically superior
              offshoot.
                \_ and I assume you're also white but don't see yourself
                   as the above racist but somehow superior to him.
                   \_ I AM SUPERIOR TO YOU ALL!
        \_ what is the url for the Japanese equivalent of eBay?
           \_ <DEAD>www.ebay.co.jp<DEAD>
2003/11/14 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:11068 Activity:nil
11/13   Destroying empty building boost moral.  Consider what we and others
        has done in the past for devastating other's moral or boost our own
        (i.e. drop nuclear bomb, fire bombing defendless Dresen, and killing
        300,000 in Nanjing), I would say this is, though stupid, pretty
        civilized.
        \_ The firebombing of Dresden was done not to boost morale, but to
           destroy the enemy willingness to fight.  The allies believed,
           and Hitler's rhetoric supported this belief, that WWII was a total
           war, not just a war between opposing armed forces.  The nuclear
           bomb was dropped as a message to Stalin, and perhaps to force
           the japanese surrender (though there are indications the
           japanese were ready to surrender as is).
           \_ That is the point.  I really hate the idea of doing something
              for the purpose of devastating enemy's "willingness to fight."
              We've done it in Dresen, German has done it in Russia, and
              Japanese have done it in Nanjing.  Yet, somehow, only German
               got punished.  Japanese got a slap on the wrist, and Americans,
              some of them (see below) still felt that their action was
              justified, not realizing that they have gotten away with
              crime against humanity only because they won the war.
              \_ No way in hell was it worth the estimated 100,000 American
                 lives to take the mainland vs any number of Japanese to drop
                 the bomb.  Not 1 American life.  The idea that we magically
                 knew they were ready to surrender and nuked them anyway just
                 because is pure bullshit.
              \_ You may really hate the idea of destroying enemy's
                 willingness to fight, but that is the essence of war.
                 Some Sun Tzu and Clausewitz might be helpful.
                 \_ I agree.  When in war, you do what you have to
                    do to end it quickly.
                    \_ That's not what Sun Tzu said though.
                       \_ sounds good enough, but that's what I heard
                          some generals say.
                          \_ Powell Doctrine.
           \_ The Japanese didn't surrender even after the first bomb hit
              Hiroshima.  They surrendered only after the second bomb hit
              Nagasaki.  So they weren't ready to surrender without us bombing.
        \_ Dresden was a key transhipment (something ~ 3rd largest) for
           the German military.  As we all know (or should) war is all
           about logistics. It was a valid military target.  The Japanese
           had ample time and warning to unconditionally surrender.
           Realistically invasion of the home islands would have
           incurred millions of casualties.  There were 300,000+ on
           Okinawa alone.  We also had to stop the Russians from
           entering the war, etc. etc.
        \_ (1) "moral" != "morale"
           (2) destroying buildings in a "regime change" operation
               may undermine morale of the civilian population who
               is supposedly on our side.  I much prefer bombing
               the shit out enemies types of operations as opposed to
               gnarly regime change types of operations.
        \_ Yea, like when commie chinese attacked commie vietnamese,
           they had a really bad time cause the vietnamese were
           like very tough after fighting usa for a long time, so
           the chinese commie gave up, but instead of like admitting
           defeat, they blew up the two vietnamese cities in their hands,
           dynamiting like every single damn hutch they found, to
           boost morale and show they have big penis.
           \_ i forgot. all commies, aside from the size of penis, are all
                the same.
        \_ Yea, like Microsoft bombed Netscape out of existence and will
           soon finish off Realplayer and then screw Google.
           And if they can't win, they'll ship old Java.
           \_ Screw google.  They haven't returned decent results in months.
              And Netscape, too, while you're at it.  They had given up and
              stop improving their browser around version 3.x or 4.x depending
              on who you ask while MS continued to work on theirs.  Go load up
              an old NS and feel the pain.  NS sucked and deserved no less
              than death by that point.
              \_ What about NS 6.x and 7.x?
                 \_ 7.x is broken mozilla 1.0 and 6.x was unspeakably bad.
                    Did anyone actually use 6.x if there was any other
                    choice for their OS?  Anyway, by then NS was long gone.
                    \_ I'm using 7.1 and it seems much better than 4.8 except
                       bigger memory footprint.
2003/10/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Recreation/Media] UID:10494 Activity:high
10/6    What did he whisper in her ear in "Lost in Translation" ?
        Anybody?  Anybody?
        \_ does anybody think that the representation of japanese
           people in this film is kinda f'ed up? I mean, I feel
           like she was just trying to show how the characters were
           alienated by being in a foreign culture or whatever, but
           there definitely were quite a few laughs just based on
           "those wacky japanese".
           \_ it's the experience of the novice traveller in Japan.
              trust me, you'll spend a lot of time thinking, "wow,
              those wacky japanese."  The movie also had a good deal
              of beauty (the wedding procession in Kyoto, for example).
              For more on the wacky, imcomprehensible nature of Japan,
              check out "Max Danger: Adventures of an Expat in Tokyo"
              by Robert J. Collins.
        \_ http://imdb.com/NewsFeatures/lostintrans.html
        \_ Sorry, it was lost in translation.  HAH!  Damn, I'm good.
        \_ I think the point is that you're not supposed to know.  That
           said, I'm guessing it's something along the lines of "become
           yourself" or other sentimental "bye-bye" pap....  Great movie,
           though.
        \_ Why don't you download it and run the enhance the audio
           track so that you can listen to it. In all likelyhood he
           said nothing of relavance to the movie. Why say something,
           when you can say nothing and get the same reaction out of
           the audience
           \_ well, now I'm more interested in seeing this movie.  So if
              it gets people talking...
        \_ He says, "For you".
        \_ Do you understand about modern lit. crit. and self-referentiality?
          \_ "Nan nen nihon ni irun desu ka?"   That was the funniest scene
             in the movie.  For those who don't know Japanese, the old
             woman at the medical clinic was slowly asking him how many
             years he was in Japan.
             \_ the best part is the two middle-aged ladies in the row
                of seats behind them trying, very politely, not to bust up.
2003/9/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:10291 Activity:nil
9/22    Another great invention from Japan:
        http://daimaoh.kir.jp/ho/menssom.htm
        \_ disturbing, but funny.
        \_ not really work-safe
2003/9/16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:10208 Activity:nil
9/15    Japanese people are weird:
        http://www8.plala.or.jp/Laputa/flash/nasu.html
        \_ It's in Japanese.  Maybe that's why you're not getting it....since
           you probably don't speak Japanese.
           \_ Ah, so a walking, singing eggplant is perfectly normal then?
              \_ You've never seen Courage the Cowardly Dog, then?
              \_ Right -- and a talking sponge in square pants is the height of
                 animated normality.  Get some perspective.
                 \_ heh
              \_ its probably normal if you're as weird as those freaky
                 Japanese
                 \_ I am not freaky!
        \_ It's the Japanese equivalent of this:
           http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/yatta.html
           In other words, they took a song by the Russian Lolita duo
           Tatu and used similar sounding words from Japanese to populate
           their Flash presentation. --erikred
2003/9/8 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:10113 Activity:high
9/8     Is "Iwo Jima" a Japanese name?  Why did we name one of our warship with
        a Japanese name?
        \_ Yes it is. Because we fought and won there during WWII at the cost of
           a lot of lives. Wow, the youth of today sure don't know much about
        \_ Yes it is. Because we fought and won there during WWII at the cost
        of a lot of lives. Wow, the youth of today sure don't know much about
        common history...
           \_ either that, or you bit on a troll.
                \_ Both probably since a 5 second trip to google would've
                   answered OP's question.
           \_ I see.  Sorry for being an FOB.
2003/9/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:10056 Activity:nil
9/3     Is there a korean word equivalent to the japanese (though rapidly
        becoming english as well) term "otaku".
        \_ What little self contained universe do you live in where "otaku"
           is widely used by english speakers?
           \_ You're just yelling to hear yourself yell, aren't you?
              \_ Partly, but it's more a wider concern about geekdom.
                 The presumption of the question displays the traits
                 a little too closely.
        \_ otaku
        \_ what does "otaku" mean?
           \_ I think that the literal translation is "home", but the
              meaning is something like shut-in/luser/nerd. Usually
              otaku are people who stay at home watching anime, reading
              manga, playing computer games and surfing the internet.
              Basically your average '1337 GN00/L1NUX H4X0R.
              \_ cf. http://www.jekai.org/entries/aa/00/nn/aa00nn70.htm
                 (yes, you may need to dl Japanese Character support)
        \_ What little self contained universe do you live in where "otaku"
           is widely used by english speakers?
        \_ otaku
2003/8/20 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:29408 Activity:high
8/20    We've been talking about al Qaeda as if it were one single entity.
        Is there a possibility that the entire Muslim community resents
        US occupation of Iraq and just want to kill US landmarks and its
        people rather than that they want to join al Qaeda?
        \_ Americans don't understand the terrorist cells are not like
           "Cobra" from GI Joe.
           \_ They're not?
        \_ Salon had a "portrait of a guerilla" story awhile back--
           ordinary guy, working on a degree in English lit in Baghdad,
           hated Saddam... wants the US out of Iraq, tried to ambush a
           convoy with an RPG (it failed).  The spectrum of feelings and
           politics is wider than "if you're not with us, you're with the
           terrorists" style thinking.
           \_ He was a nice killer.
        \_ nah, muslims just want non-muslims converted or dead,
           the terrorists wanted us out of the Holy Land of Saudi
           Arabia, and we left, but they still continue to terrorize us.
           Everyplace becomes a holy land to them, everyplace in the world
           becomes an occupation.
           \_ we left?  When did that happen?
           \_ Bub, you can score Prozac real easy. Think about it.
              \_ Is this where I say "blah blah blah"?  The poster made valid
                 and accurate points in a calm manner.  You however are an
                 idiot.  Thank you for joining us this morning.
                 \_ I notice you are not replying to any of the critiques.
           \_ How many terrorist attacks on American happened after we
              left Saudi Arabia?
           \_ Nah, only 10% of muslims want that.  Of course, that's about
              100,000,000 people, but hey, who's counting.
        \_ excuse me nitwit, didn't 9/11 happen way before occupation of
           Iraq?
           \_ Dude, how did you get to Cal with your terrible English
              comprehension scores? Was it affirmative-action? Alumni
              pull? Tell us.
              \_ alumni pull at Cal?  sheeyah!
                 \_ You've obviously never met Matt Belizzi.
        \_ Like I said before, US is dumb in denying all the Baath
           party members their old jobs and livelihood.  In doing so,
           they just created tens of thousands of enemies from the most
           well trained well organized pool of Iraqis.  Too cocky.
           It is also the direct opposite of what the US did in
           post-WWII Japan.
           \_ Please show how Saddam-ruled Iraq == WWII-era Japan, and maybe
              I won't think your idea is nuts.
              \_ I already gave you the explanation why it is a bad idea.
                 As to Iraq and WWII-era Japan comparison, go read some
                 history yourself.  There are other examples besides Japan.
                 \_ No, I don't want to read the history myself.  That's why
                    I asked you.  Let's start with something simple.
                    Baathists:Iraq :: ? : Japan.  Then tell me how the
                    Baathists are similar to that group in Japan.
              \_ It was the big argument FOR liberation. It would be just like
                 Japan. Cut off head, replace, wipe up blood, go home.
                 Easy-peasy Japanesey.
2003/3/28 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:27888 Activity:nil
3/27    For those who supported the use of atomic weapon on Japan back in
        WW2.  Would you support the use of atomic bomb for Bagdad?
        Bagdad has a lot more military value than Hiroshima and Nagasaki
        combined, and it can save lives and end the war more quickly.
        \_ No. Army generals are estimating that the US casualties in this war
           will be between 2000 and 3000 people. This hardly justifies the
           use of a nuclear bomb in such a densely populated city as Bagdad.
           Imagine all the negative PR US would get around the world. I don't
           know the Japan estimates but my guess the US could easily loose tens
           if not hundreds of thousands soldiers in Japan. Moreover, there is no
           need anymore to showcase the nuclear bomb to the world (and
           especially the Soviets) now that everyone knows the power of nuclear
           weapons and the Soviet threat has also diminished.
2003/3/20-21 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:27770 Activity:insanely high
3/20    How did we manage to miss Hussein despite a rain of 3 dozens missles
        and then a 2000lb bomb over his head?
        \_ 1) who said he's alive? 2) because it took hours from the time
           the decision was made to the time they could get anything in the
           air and then it had to get there.  if he's alive he might not even
           have still been there, if he was there at all, when the missiles
           were launched.
        \_ Body Double. He wasn't really where we thought he was. Just a
           guess.
        \_ As has been said over and over.  Bombs are good at destroying
           equipment or fortifications, they really aren't that good at i
           killing poeple.  That is why you can't take a city by bombing it
           unless you are willing to pull a Dresden on it.
           \_ Hey, you are implying what we pulled on Dresen is wrong,
                that is not cool.  We need to support our troops.
           \_ Bombing is great at killing people, it's just difficult to
              target a specific person. You're confusing statistics vs.
              efficacy.
              \_ Not really. How many tons of bombs were dropped/casualty
                 in the London Blitz? During the bombing of North Vietnam?
                 In Serbia? Bombing from the air is only really good at
                 terrorizing a population.
                 \_ Civilians weren't the targets in those.  The Blitz was more
                    PR than anything else.
                 \_ Well, no.  Bombing is GREAT at taking out specific
                    hardened targets, scattering large troop concentrations
                    (ie, hindering organized ground operations), and
                    suppression of enemy troop movement.  As a method of
                    wiping out a population, then yeah -- it's nearly useless.
                    But saying bombing is 'only really good at terrorizing...'
                    is just outright wrong.                  -mice
                    \_ And bridges, fuel depots, ammo dumps, runways, etc....
                 \_ Last time I checked, we managed to kill roughly 300k
                    in Tokyo.  We managed to kill another 300k more
                    in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  I tend to think bomb are
                    great at killing people, as we have done so well in
                    in the past.  (though Japanese managed to did the same,
                    without using bombs).
        \_ Where would Saddam be sleeping at the end of the 48hr deadline?
           In one of his buddy's basements next to the washing machine?
           How about ... something designed to resist bunker buster
           munitions, since he's had all since 1991 to prepare for it ...
           \_ Maybe he's already out of the country after undergoing heavy
              plastic surgery. He's probably enjoying Spring Break in Cancun
              alongside Bin Laden doing Girls Gone Wild videos witn Snoop.
              \_I think I agree with u.
                \_ All he'd have to do is trim his mustache.
           Nukes, now -- that's a different story!
           \_ YEAH!!  FU|< TH0Z3 S4NDNIGG3R T0W31H34D B4574RDZ!!!!  IF
              7H3Y'R3 4LL D34D, W3 G37 4LL 7H3 01L!!!1!
              \_ Yeah it's all about oil.  Oil we easily could have bought for
                 less money and hassle than the cost of a war.  Makes sense.
                 It's all about oil.  I understand that now.  Gore'04!
2003/1/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:27061 Activity:very high
1/10    What does "oppai" in Japanese mean?  Thx.
        \_obGoogle:
        http://www.google.com/search?q=%22oppai%22+japanese+translate&sourceid=opera&num=100&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
2002/9/30-10/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:26056 Activity:moderate
9/30    Do people think more naturally in infix notation, prefix or postfix?
        \_ I don't know about people, but I know 8 out of 10 cows prefer
           prefix notation.
        \_ I guess it might depend on which language you speak.  Proabaly
           infix for Chinese and English speakers, and postfix for Japanese
           speakers.  -- yuen
           \_ true.  but what if you were designing your own language
              (programming) and want to make it accessible to most.
              \_ To most people, most people likely to program anyway, most
                 people you want to teach programing, what? what? WHAT?!
              \_ I guess it'd still depend on the mother tongue the person
                 speaks.  Now people with both English and Japanese, or both
                 Chinese and Japanese, as their native languages will be good
                 candidates for such a study.  -- yuen
2002/8/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:25553 Activity:kinda low
8/12    Someone mentioned domo-kun in an earlier post--would any CSUA'ers
        in Japan be willing to pick up a domo-kun doll for me and ship it
        to me?  I'd like to give it to someone as a birthday present.
        Neotoys, wizziwig & friends all don't have what I'm looking for,
        and the NHK store doesn't ship outside Japan.  -John
        \_ ask keithyw
        \_ I have seen these sold at Urban Outfitters of all places
        \_ What's domo-kun?  Is it a big hit like the Tamagotchi before?
           \_ NHK mascot type thingy.  Speaking of domo-kun:
              http://drew.corrupt.net/think-of-the-domokun.jpg  --Jon
        \_ If you're in or around the east bay, there is a Ranch 99 with
           an associated asian mall near the Richmond Costco.  One of the
           stores in the mall is a gift shop/greeting card type place that
           carries many of the cute Japanese fad characters.  Might be
           worth a look.  It's where I got the Kogepan that hangs off of
           the rearview mirror in my car.
                \_ I'm in Switzerland, which is sort of the crux of the
                   problem.  NHK's site (http://www.domomode.com has exactly
                   what I am looking for (a ca. 20 cm plush toy) but as
                   I mentioned above, they don't ship out of Japan.  -John
2002/5/1 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:24662 Activity:high
5/1     The administration that favoured the a-bomb... was it the same
        administration that favoured the Japanese internment? Why didn't
        they do the same for German descendents?
        \_ It's a lot easier to identify Japanese descendents.
           \_ Plus they were more concentrated in certain regions, I guess.
        \_ Germans are white.  Japanese are not.  Germans had melted in to
           the general population.  Japanese had not.  Germans were like
           everyone else.  Japanese were not.  And as a further emotional
           issue, the Germans hadn't launched a sneak attack on America.  The
           Japanese did.  Note I'm not making any judgements in either
           direction.  I do have opinions on this topic but I'm not posting
           them.  I'm only answering the question as I see it with as little
           bias as possible.  I think it's a good question.
        \_ "All men are created equal" and all other good stuff in the
            Constitution is meant for White European descent only from the
            very beginning of American history. Without it, we wouldn't able
            to justify to establish our nation at other peoples' land.
            This notion of Constitution also applied to men of other race
            didn't really come into play until the middle of 1960's.
            Thus, apply the same human right standard on Japanese descent
            doesn't really exist at the time.  On the other hand, it cuts
            both ways.  Because of American's don't really care much about
            none-white's human right, all the monstrous act by the Japanese
            toward the 20 million Chinese was consider a lesser crime than
            than the 6 million white Jews Nazi killed, and therefore,
            they were pretty much forgiven.  In the end, I actually think
            Japanese as a whole came out ahead due to this racial prejudice.
2002/4/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24641 Activity:nil
4/30    Regarding all this talk about Japan: has anyone seen that SNL skit
        with Chris Farley on a Japanese game show? fucking hilarious.
        (its on Kazaa, etc)
2002/4/30 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24638 Activity:insanely high
4/29    Followup: Was bombing Hiroshima & Nagasaki terrorism, since we killed
        civilians to undermine their support of Japanese gov't policy?
        \_ yes, we circumvented their military, which is suppose to protect
           their civilians, and attacked their civilians. So yes, terrorist
           don't bother with our military so terrorist attack our civilians
           by ignoring our military.
                \_ The US lost 300,000 soldiers in WWII to free the world
                   you live in, so unless you had family who fought for
                   the allies in WWII your opinion is WORTHLESS.
                   \_ Dad and his brothers, 442nd RCT or Army Medical. -jon
           \_ Do you even know anything about why Hiroshima and Nagasaki
              were selected? They were primarily strategically important
              military targets:
              http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/abomb/mp05.htm
              http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/abomb/mp07.htm
              In Nagasaki the target was the Mitsubishi Steel and Arms Works
              and the Mitsubishi-Urakami Ordnance Works. Not exactly your
              run of the mill civilian zen children's peace commune.
              "bomb" was used in violation on international law banning attacks
              on civilians (as if international law on this subject mattered
              after the blitz and dresden):
              Even the hague couldn't quite bring themselves to say that the
              "bomb" was used in violation on international law banning
              attacks on civilians (as if international law on this subject
              mattered after the blitz and dresden):
              http://www.dannen.com/decision/int-law.html#J
        \_ The Japanese, because they are so strong willed, refused to
           surrender and preferred to die fighting to the last woman and
           child.  Instead of fighting a war of attrition at the cost of
           tens of thousand US casualties (if not hundreds),
           and a probably similar cost to Japan, we nuked them.
           What is so hard to understand about that.  More people died
           in conventional bombing on primarily civilian targets.  Yes
           both are horrible but such is nature of war.  You kill people.
           Frankly, I, like 99% of Americans at that time, had family
           fighting in the war one way or another.  If you ask
           any one alive at the time was it the right decision, the
           answer was unequivocally yes.  Unfortunately, you have
           the revisionists today who weren't alive at the time come
           along and preach what a horrible atrocity it was -
           complete bullshit.
           \_ Another strategic reason for dropping the nuclear bombs on
              Japan, the one that many people forget, was a simple
              demonstration of the nuclear capability to the Soviets and rest
              of the world. The world was already frightened by USSR's swift
              conquest of the Eastern Europe.  Their military machine seemed to
              be unstoppable. Certain Soviet generals were even suggesting to
              Stalin at the time to turn their tanks and take over the rest of
              Europe. Not that Stalin was necessarily planning to do that but
              dropping the nukes on Japan certainly added more weight to
              the American military might in his eyes.
        \_ I love how people who have absolutely no connection with
           events of WWII can ramble and rant and rave about how horrible
           it was to bomb Nagasaki and Hiroshima.  Goddamned spoiled
           coddled fuckwits who would probably shit in their pants if
           they had to make a hard decision in their entire fucking lives.
           Everyone's a fucking critic after the fact. --Jon
2002/4/29-30 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24636 Activity:low
4/29    little history quiz: why were Hiroshima and Nagasaki chosen?
        why not tokyo?
        \_ Duh, obviously because Godzilla had already done so much damage to
           Tokyo what was the point of that?
        \_ Tokyo housed much of the Japanese Government.  The Allies had to
           have some government left with which to work in post-war occupation
           and rebuilding.  Also, Truman personally objected to destroying any
           of the historical landmarks or architecture in Tokyo and Kyoto.
           Had the US destroyed say the Japanese imperial palaces, I think the
           post-war occupation and rebuilding of Japan would have been very
           different and difficult.  Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities that,
           while civilian, were home to mostly military/industry.  --Jon
           \_ I saw an interview with a guy who survived Nagasaki.  He said it
              was the local populace's theory at the time (pre-bombing) that
              they were not being conventionally bombed because the Americans
              were saving the cultural treasures in his city.  I don't know if
              Nagasaki had any true cultural treasures more than any other
              city but I do know Tokyo had been previously bombed
              conventionally and the Americans wanted 'fresh' cities to nuke
              so they could do clean damage assessment afterwards.  *OR* you
              could go along with my Godzilla theory mentioned earlier.
              \_ "fresh city" for damage assessment is also a good reason,
                 but Kyoto, which was on the target list, was also an
                 unbombed list.  There were many reasons for !Tokyo and for
                 !Kyoto.  --Jon
                 \_ I think the main reason though was definitely fear of
                    waking Godzilla.  Although this happened later circa
                    1999-2000, NYC was spared ~55 years of monster damage
                    and repeat visits.
              \_ I read a long article on Reader's Digest maybe 20 years ago
                 written by one of the flight crew that dropped the bombs.  It
                 said one reason to choose those two cities was that they
                 haven't been bombed, so the Japanese govt wasn't expecting the
                 US to bomb it and so the air defense there was weak.  The
                 article might also have mentioned the need of clean damage
                 assessment but I don't remember.
        \_ It was an industrial base.
        \_ Perhaps a word of mouth but someone told me it's because the weather
           over Tokyo wasn't allowing for the pilots to do visual so at the
           last minute, it was decided that H & N are to be target. I'm not
           sure what the radar technology was like in 1945 but this is just
           what I heard.
           \_ H&N were 'set aside' while Tokyo was getting bombed to shit by
              conventional explosives (70+k dead).  Damage assessment on
              undamaged target cities.
              \_ this is the only correct anwser.
                 \_ Wrong, damage assement was only one of the criteria.
                    Weather and visual bombing conditions were also very
                    important as was the strategic military value of the
                    targets.
2002/4/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24631 Activity:insanely high
4/28    This is not a troll, I'm just curious. If Germany still has a pretty
        strong Nazi presence (esp from E Germany where unemployment is high
        and education is low), how come Japan doesn't seem to have their
        Imperialistic equivalence?
       \_ HELLO!!!! What the hell are you thinking?  There is a much
           stronger imperialistic presence in Japan than those of Germany.
           Instead of being executed like their German counter part, those who
           commit crime against humanities are being WORSHIPPED by many
           the top leaders in Japan.  Prime Minister of Japan just visited
           the Shrine dedicated to those "war heros" of WW2.  Even today,
           Japanese Text book does not admit that whatever they did was
           "aggression."
           The relationship between Imperial Japan and American is a lot more
           closer than you think.  Prior to Pearl Harbor, it's AMERICAN who
           supplies scrap iron, petroleums and other war material to Japan
           while Japanese Imperial Army was ravaging throughout the Northen/
           North Eastern China.  After Japanese Surroundered, American decided
           to leverage Japan to counter the raise of Communist power in China.
           By doing so, American pratically forgave Japan and its crime against
           China and the rest of the Asia.  This policy is enforced until this
           day.  Consider Japan never even admit that they were at fault at
           first place, consider that Japan has killed more than 20 million
           Chinese during the war, which they shows no remorse nor slight
           hint of apologistic attitude toward it.  This would only fuel the
           ultra-nationalist sentiment in the mainland China itself.
           American, whose policy has been closely aligned with Japan both
           before and after WW2, who has been extremely lenient toward the
           crime which Japan committed, is being logically viewed as the
           imperialist corporate today.                 -kngharv
                \_ so where are the pro-Japanese pro-Imperial dominance
                   and pro-expansionist/pro-war protests?
                   \_ They happened on a fairly regular basis while I was
                      there and were reported in the news. We just
                      don't hear about it here. Awhile ago, a far right
                      group assassinated the mayor of Nagasaki for being too
                      critical of Japan's past conduct, among other things.
                        -- ulysses
                      \_ You can also read Chinese, Hong Kong, Taiwan or Korean
                         news media if you want to keep up with these.  They
                         pay much more attention to Imperial-Japanese-related
                         events than the US media does.
                         \_ The Japanese are our friends.  They like golf.  We
                            like golf.  The Japanese are our friends.  I'll bet
                            Bin Laden doesn't play golf.
           \_ Hey what'd you expect?  After a good bit of moral blindness as
              seen below on this thread, suddenly the US has something to
              apologise for and Japan is all victims. Weird. Go figure. Cal.
        \_ Ever see all the war memorials dedicated to their veterans? Ever
           see them apologize? War veterans who got away passed into ranks of
           politicians.  They'll never apologize for Bataan, just as much as
           the U.S. will never apologize for Hiroshima. [motd formatd]
           \_ The US has nothing to apologize for.  The Japanese do.
              \_ you're an idiot.
                 \_ Uh yeah you sure showed me!  When did they start letting
                    third graders into Cal?  Get off your dad's computer.
                    \_ it was a fucking nuclear bomb you idiot. your post
                        didn't warrant an explanation.
                        \_ Yes, it was a very high yield radiation bomb.  And?
                           So what?  Maybe you'd prefer the higher death tolls
                           on *both* sides from a conventional invasion?  Yes,
                           it does warrant a real reply.  You're
                           intellectually weak.  "It was a nuclear bomb" is
                           not an answer to anything.  I await your ignorant
                           reply, although I honestly expect you'll either
                           censor the whole thing or just insult me again.  I
                           again say the US has *nothing* to be sorry for and
                           Japan has *much* to be sorry for and has yet to come
                           to grips with the crimes they committed in the 30s
                           and 40s.
                           \_ Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian targets.
                              1/4M civilians were killed in violation of the
                              Geneva convention. This is something we should
                              regret, even if Japan as a country deserved it.
                              Would you nuke Baghdad to teach Hussein a
                              lesson? -!OP
                              \_ Imperial Japan was going to use 'civilians'
                                 in the defense of the islands from US
                                 invasion.  Due to excessive propaganda, this

                                 was mostly voluntary.  There were no civilians
                                 on the islands at the time.
                                 \_ even if this is true, which i'm not
                                    entirely convinced of, how can you
                                    rationalize the second bomb?
                                    \_ They hadn't surrendered yet.  The
                                       situation hadn't changed.
                              \_ This wasn't about 'teaching them a lesson'.
                                 You're again being intellectually dishonest.
                                 It was about ending the war asap with as few
                                 deaths on both sides as possible and you know
                                 it.  You're now veering into troll territory.
                                 And no I don't favor nuking Baghdad at this
                                 time but if doing so would save more lives
                                 than not doing so I would be in favor.
                                 \_ *I'm* veering into troll territory?
                                    Japan was already trying to surrender
                                    \_ Please explain how one 'tries' to
                                       surrender and provide URL.
                                       \_ By negotiating via a third party.
 http://www.lehman.cuny.edu/litstudies/programs/MotionWeb/webassign/gar.html
                                          \_ I read this, and although
                                             it suggests that the japanese
                                             were considering surrender, I
                                             did not see conclusive evidence
                                             that they had started negotiating.
                                             Try Again.
                                          \_ I just got done reading the whole
                                             thing also.  I also didn't see
                                             where it says anything like you
                                             claim it does.  Ya know, when you
                                             post a URL you better make sure it
                                             says what you think it says.  Some
                                             of us actually read entire URLs.
                                    when we nuked them. If we were really
                                    trying to save civilian lives, we would
                                    have accepted their terms. It is pretty
                                    \_ You mean the terms where we just go
                                       away and they get to keep their evil
                                       slave ridden raping imperial empire?
                                       The one soaking in the blood of innocent
                                       Chinese?  Even the Nazis in Nanking
                                       were shocked by what the Japanese did.
                                       \_ Any URL on "the Nazis in Nanking were
                                          shocked ..." part?  Thanks.  --- yuen
                                          \_ History Channel.  The Nazis were
                                             running a medical facility/camp in
                                             one part of the city.  The Nazi Dr
                                             running the place wrote in his
                                             personal diaries and letters home
                                             how sickening it was and also
                                             took action to keep the Japanese
                                             from entering his 'sanctuary'.  I
                                             could find the name with some
                                             research if this isn't enough for
                                             you.
                                    clear we were positioning ourselves for
                                    post-WWII (cold war) advantage, as well
                                    as ensuring that the Emperor would never
                                    \_ Of course we didn't want the Emperor
                                       in place, duh.  What's wrong with that?
                                       You make it sound like the Emperor was
                                       a good thing in some bizarre way.
                                    rise to power again. In hindsight, they
                                    were probably both good reasons, but it
                                    was by no means clear at the time.
                                    \_ It was quite clear at the time.  Read
                                       a history book published outside Japan.
                                    Nonetheless, the massacre of hundreds of
                                    thousand of innocents should be dismissed
                                    so lightly.
                                    \_ It wasn't a massacre.  It was the
                                       strategic killing of hundreds of
                                       thousands (I'll grant those who died
                                       later from radiation, etc).  I don't
                                       dismiss it lightly.  I don't dismiss it
                                       all.  It was a very tough call and we
                                       did the right thing and have nothing
                                       to be sorry about morally.  The Japanese
                                       have lots to be sorry about morally and
                                       have yet to own up to 99% of it.  Please
                                       don't put words in my mouth.  I take
                                       the death of hundreds of thousands very
                                       very seriously which is why I don't
                                       make the trivial "nuke = bad" equation.
                                       The dead don't care how they died. BTW,
                                       are you aware of the fire bombing we did
                                       in Germany?  We targetted civilian areas
                                       under the principle that civilians are
                                       a strategic resource bc they're the ones
                                       who build the hardware and supply the
                                       food, clothing, fuel, etc, that keeps
                                       the military running.  Do you feel the
                                       same about the 'depopulation' bombing
                                       we did as the two nukes in Japan?
                         Not to mention, the Dresden bombing killed around _/
                         200,000 people which is more than twice the number
                         of dead from Hiroshima. But since it wasn't nuclear
                         weapons no one cares.
        \_ Japanese aggression passed into the economic sector.
           Unfortunately, it was just as unsuccessful there.  Witness the
           current state of their economy.
           \_ Suckers got cleaned out on the golf course thing.
        \_ They do.
        \_ Russia recently seems to have a strong neo-Nazi presence in form of
           "skinheads" in the large cities. Who'd think that would ever
           happen?
           \_ One of the few good things the communists did was suppress all
              forms of blatant racism although they did keep track of ethnic
              demographics.  Officially they had 15 groups.
              \_ Except state-sponsored racism, of course.  Ever tried to get
                 admitted to a good Soviet university as a Jew?
                 \_ Well yeah sure they still mistreated Jews but Jews run
                    the world and oppress everyone they encounter so there's
                    no such thing as racism against Jews.  They're just trying
                    to restore balance betwee the Jews and those they oppress,
                    so it's ok.
                    \_ Sort of like how African Americans can't be racist
                       because they're an historically oppressed minority?
                \_ The Communists also broke the back of religion in
                   Russia and replaced it with rationalism, which is
                   no small feat.
                   \_ Not really.  Orthodox Christianity is making a comeback
                      in a major way in Russia.  You can't force people into
                      progress against their wills.
                      \_ And the Catholic Church is making a big move into
                         Orthodox territory too.  As far as progess goes, I
                         don't consider all religion bad or all atheism good.
                         I'm an atheiest but I do understand how religion and
                         belief in a higher power can help an otherwise broken
                         people get through one more day without resorting to
                         the bottle or other killers.  There's a good reason
                         for the insanely high alcohol related death rates in
                         Russia/Former Soviet States.
                         \_ is religion good for anything else?
                            \_ IMO, not really.  I don't believe it should be
                               used to keep people down but people who are
                               already down are often better off with it than
                               without it.  --atheist
                         \_ I read a few months ago that the Cathonic the
                            Orthodox Churches were in talks towards
                            re-unification.
2002/3/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24268 Activity:high
3/28    "U.S. Airman Gets 32 Months for Okinawa Rape"
        http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20020328/ts_nm/japan_usa_trial_dc
        What the hell?  Only 32 months for rape?  What kind of justice is that?
        And the defense still considers filing an appeal?  --- American guy
        \_ Duh, there's *always* an appeal to *every* case in both civil and
           criminal court.  How ignorant can you be?  And you weren't there so
           you've got no idea what went down in court.  Maybe 32 months was
           an outrageous sentence given the facts of the case which we don't
           have here on the motd.
                \_ Supposed average for rape in Japan in 3-5 years.
        \_ It sounds like he met a hooker in a bar and didn't pay her enough
           so she cried rape.  The real injustice is that this was ever taken
           seriously enough to go to trial.
        \_ He was raping for his country.
           \_ Ah! That's where our tax dollars go ;-)
        \_ The justice department in Okinawa was under heavy US pressure.
           Remind you that Okinawa was an independent nation which has
           thousands years of history before Japan absorb it in 1845.
           After WW2, US want to form a blocade toward Russia and Communist
           China, thus, allow Japan to keep what was then Ryukyu (which
           was traditionally Chinese friendly).
           Japanese, for most part, still don't really care about people
           in Okinawans, treat them as some sort of colonial subject.  This
           is one of the reason why Japan allow bulk of US troops in Okinawa
           instead of Japanese mainland; and Japanese certainlly won't piss
           off US for these colonial subjects.
           Poor Okiwanans,  victim fo two imperial powers.

           If US was protecting its subject when its subject was
           raping 12 years old back in 1995, it will certainly protect its
           subject when the crime is much less severe, like this one.
        \_ She was asking for it.
2002/3/26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:24233 Activity:moderate
3/26    What does "kimochi" or "kimuchi" in Japanese mean?  Thx.
        \_ it means the overall chi, or PMS, depending on who you are.
        \_ I think it means a kind of pickle.
        \_ I think it is the japanese spelling/pronunciation of korean
           "kimchi" which are a kind of pickled cabbage/radish
        \_ Wow. I think you're all joking but sometimes I'm not sure...
           Anyway, "kimochi" means feelings, usu. meaning emotion. -- ulysses
           \_ The female characters in Japanese adult videos say this phrase a
              lot, and that's why I was wondering what it means.
        \_ "kimochii" means "comfortable" or "feels good" depending on
                   the intensity of the utterance.  --erikred
            \_ "kimochi" = feelings, "ii" = good. "kimochi ii" = feels good
             \_ I was going to make a remark about pornime, but I guess
                it's been done for me. -geordan
2002/2/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:23804 Activity:very high
2/7     Does "South Pole" have any special meaning in Japanese?  There are so
        many JAV with titles like "South Pole No. 2".  Thx.
        \_ "Pole at down south" I am no Japanese, but it seems quite obvious
            to me.
           \_ BTW do all the cultures and languages in the world use the same
              convention that north is "up" and south is "down"?  I know
              English and Chinese do.
                \_ no.
           \_ But the Japanese characters for "South Pole" literally means
              "south extreme".  They don't refer to pole.
              \_ Yup. Most of the sites I found by searching on "nankyoku"
                 were about Antarctica, not the South Pole in parcticular.
        \_ What does JAV stand for?  Japanese Animation somethin?  Sounds
           like it's worth knowing, i.e. chicks will dig it if I just throw
           it into a conversation "randomly."
           \_ Sorry, it's "Japanese Adult Video".  It's also one of the
              censoring levels in Japanese porn.  You don't want to throw it
              into a converstion with chicks.
              \_ What are the other censoring levels?
                 \_ JAV has "checkerbox" covering genital areas.  This is leagl
                    in Japan.  THN is "thin matrix" censoring where the
                    checkerbox is less opaque.  This is illegal in Japan.  XXX
                    is uncensored and is also illegal in Japan.
              \_ Perhaps the chicks YOU hang out with are too uptight.
                 Many chicks love porn!
                 \_ Many chicks star in porn. Imagine that. They're still
                    the minority.
2002/2/6-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:23793 Activity:low
2/6     International reaction to Bush's Axis of Evil declaration was swift,
        as within minutes, France surrendered.
        http://www.satirewire.com/news/jan02/axis.shtml
2002/1/4 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:23460 Activity:high
1/4     Now we're willing to fight a war with big lies?  How degraded have we
        become?
        http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/01/04/ret.bin.laden.leaflets/index.html
        \_ Republicans as usual: Iran-Contra, Gulf of Tonkin, Chile, etc.
        \_ Business as usual: Iran-Contra, Gulf of Tonkin, Chile, etc.
        \_ Dave Culler in the article!!!
        \_ Why does the Petagon insist on dropping leaflets written in
           English and not in the local language of the region? Is this for our
           consumption?
           \_ I think the English leaflets are for the press only.
        \_ Hey genius, war time propaganda is thousands of years older than
           you are.  Get over it.  Do you think it was degrading that we
           dropped leaflets in WWII?  Gosh, some of them might not have told
           the truth, too!
           \_ and contrary to the movie about hiroshima, there no leaflets
              dropped in hiroshima to warn them
              \_ I was thinking Germany, however, I'd like to see a URL for
                 your hiroshima claim.
        \_ What's wrong with lying to the enemy?  They surrender, lives are
           saved in the end.  All is good.
           \_ Well supposedly we want to tell the enemy that we are the good
              guys, and good guys shouldn't lie.
                \_ You're so naive.  "good guys shouldn't lie".  Yes, this is
                   just like your dungeons and dragons paladin going to
                   Afghanistan.  Uh huh.  Made level 2 yet?
           \_ If you think they just lie to "the enemy," I've got a bridge
              I'd like to sell you.
                \_ By telling you the truth in real time they're telling the
                   enemy the truth in real time.  I don't want to know the
                   truth at the moment Live On CNN With Geraldo! if it means
                   American lives are put at risk.  It isn't a video game, it
                   is war.  I *do* want to know the truth afterwards though.
                   Yes this does mean that sometimes things will happen in my
                   name as an American citizen that I don't want to happen and
                   I won't even know until maybe years later, but knowing
                   about it in real time wouldn't stop it.
2001/12/14-15 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:23243 Activity:moderate
12/14   I'm trying to remember the title and artist of a couple of Japanese
        songs that became hits in the US.  I vaguely remember one was in
        the 80s and another was even earlier.  Anybody know?  Supposedly
        the two (I think it was two) songs were the only japanese songs that
        was popular in the US.  Thanks.
        \_ Shonen Knife?  Cibo Matto (not really 80's, not sure tho)   -mice
        \_Pizzacato Five.
                \_ Pizzicato Five.  But they weren't really popular in
                   the 80's.
        \_ Sukiyaki?  "do do re mi do la so".  Although the Japanese lyrics
           had nothing to do with food.  -- yuen
           \_ YES!  that is it.  I got the MP3.  Sukiyaki by Kyu Sakamoto.
              A song entirely in Japanese that became #1 in June 15, 1963.
              Thank you.  Getting answers to obscure questions on the motd is
              the main reason why I keep coming back to the soda community. :)
2001/9/13 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:36290 Activity:nil
9/13    http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba083652e59.htm
        http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba086363031.htm
        I think it's clear at this point massive retaliation
        is the only option.  Unless future criminals, their
        supporters and their associates think twice because of the
        consequences, this cycle of violence will continue indefinitely.
        Ultimately, much like the nuclear bombs that ended WWII,
        it will save lives on both sides.
        \_ so you support something akin to Hirohima and Nagasaki?
           that's sick
          \_ No, I think Nukes are too much, but the analogy
             still holds.
2001/9/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/Religion] UID:22415 Activity:nil
9/12    This is depressing:
        http://www.sfgate.com/today/0912_chron_muslims.shtml
        Regardless of what muslims in the near east did, muslims
        here should not be treated like the japanese americans
        were during WWII. The enemy may move among them, but they
        are not the enemy.
        \_ It's getting more and more like "The Siege".
2001/9/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:22400 Activity:high
9/12    Recall that WWI was a powder keg which exploded when a terrorist
        assasinnated the archduke of Serbia.  Of course, after millions
        of people had died.  We then set in motion another series of events
        which caused WW2, where HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people died.
        Surely, we need a response, but we can't let it explode into all
        out war.  Are you willing to die to get revenge?  Are millions of
        lives worth the revenge?  Just try to stay calm and think carefully.
        VERY CAREFULLY.
        \_ No one will interfere with the US.  Pretty much all nations that
           matter said "this should not go unanswered."  No one will stop the
           US as they plow through the middle east taking out terrorist
           nests with guided rockets and bombs.
        \_ The reason nobody attacks the US like this is the general belief
           that if they did, the US would completely fucking obliterate them.
           Therefore, we must now do so, or our threat is void and further
           attacks will come without fear.
        \_ bullshit. you think you are powerful enough to matter?  this whole
        affair started when that fucker went to the temple mound...escalated
        this shit around, then last week fucking afghani cut off all contact
        wtiht the world.. you think you're "Jack Ryan"... you're a special
        enough person to affect the machinations set into action a year ago
        by a dead man? puh lease.  You'll go along for the ride like the rest
        of us, silly sheep.
        \_ The reason nobody attacks the US like this is the general belief
           that if they did, the US would completely fucking obliterate them.
           Therefore, we must now do so, or our threat is void and further
           attacks will come without fear.
        \_ bullshit. you think you are powerful enough to matter?  this
           whole affair started when that fucker went to the temple mound...
           escalated this shit around, then last week fucking afghani cut
           off all contact with the world.. you think you're "Jack Ryan"...
           you're a special enough person to affect the machinations set into
           action a year ago by a dead man? puh lease.  You'll go along for
           the ride like the rest of us, silly sheep.
        \_ I think the terrorist was Serbian; the archduke was Ferdinand (a
           Hapsburg), from Austria.
           \_ Austrian-Hungarian empire.
        \_ Neville Chamberlain's Ghost? Casualties, in the 10's not 100's
        \_ Neville Chamberlain's Ghost? Casulties, in the 10's not 100's
           of millions, were predominantly borne by Russia (25 million)
           and Germany.  You might take your own advice and consider
           the efficacy of appeasment and concession in the days leading
           to WW II.  Freedom without sacrifice is meaningless.
           \_ Well, obviously by WW2 it was too late.
           \_ Japan and China had comparable casualty figures.
           \_ I disagree.  I think Great Britain declared war at just the
              right time - when Germany invaded Poland.
        \_ I think the terrorist was Serbian, the archduke was a Hapsburg, from
           Austria.
           to WW II.
           \_ 100 million is not overblown.  Including both military and
              civilian casualties, 79 million in the European theatre
              alone.
2001/8/16-17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Health] UID:22138 Activity:low
8/16    Anyone knows what the Japanese or English title of the Japanese TV
        cartoon series ~20 years ago whose Cantonese title is "Doctor IQ"?
        Thx.
        \_ Dr. Slump (Arale-chan)
        \_ Speaking of Asian cartoons, when I was in China I picked up
           some VCD's of a chinese cartoon featuring policeman cats. I don't
           speak chinese and there are no subtitles but they are hilarious
           to watch simply because they are so surreal and so violent.
           Anyone know what the name of this cartoon is?
2001/8/9 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:22057 Activity:nil
8/9     happy 56th anniversary of the bombing of nagasaki
2001/6/21-22 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Recreation/Media] UID:21590 Activity:high
6/21    Has anyone seen both Pearl Harbor and the old movie "Tora! Tora!
        Tora!"?  How do they compare?  I've only seen the latter.  -- yuen
        \_ Tora Tora Tora is a classic (together with Midway).  I haven't
           seen Pearl harbor though.  Heard it wasn't that great.
           \_ Was Midway like a "part two" of Tora Tora Tora?  (Same style,
              same cast, etc.)  Or was it a separate movie?  -- yuen
              \_ In real life, it was a sequel.  The movie is a separate movie.
                 Don't know whether it was the same actors, but the production
                 seems to be done by the same people.  I say seems because I
                 haven't checked for sure.
           \_ Was Midway made like a "part two" of Tora Tora Tora?  (Same
              style, same cast, etc.)  Or was it a separate movie?  -- yuen
              \_ http://www.teachwithmovies.org/guides/tora-tora-tora.html
              \_ in real life, midway happened after pearl harbor.  Moviewise,
                 the movie Tora Tora Tora came out before Midway.
                 midway stars Charlton Heston, Robert Mitchum and others.
                 the japanese helped out with Tora3
                 \_ Yeah, I know about the real life part.  I was just
                    wonder about the two movies.  Thanks.  -- yuen
                    wondering about the two movies.  Thanks.  -- yuen
                 \_ I thought that Midway happened before the Japanese
                    surprise attacked the US at Pearl Harbor. Doh! --dim
                    \_ I know you are being sarcastic, but these days,
                       you never know what people know about WWII.
                       \_ Pfft.  You call that island hopping WWII?  WWII
                          happened on the Russian steppes.
            \_ part two in life toomore
                \_ Pearl Harbor: Theater Hop the special effects.
                   Don't waste your money or time on anything else.
2001/6/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:21469 Activity:very high
6/9     Why are Japanese people SO fucked up?
        \_ Well it's quite clear, this just goes to further prove the dangers
           of knives and sharp implements. How many more children must die
           before we do the responsible thing and ban knives?
        \_ they are space aliens.  look at their circulatory system; it's
           not the same as the rest of the world, yes there are documents
           to support this.
           \_ lol.  whilst teaching in Japan, I often had older students
              tell me that Japanese people have longer intestines due to
              the disproportionate amount of vegetables they ate.  then
              again, Japan's Ministry of Trade once denied Vuarnet access
              to the J. ski market on the basis that Japanese snow is
              different from snow anywhere else.  --erikred
        \_ with a pop. 60% that of the US, a significantly smaller landmass,
           and one "incident" for every ten of ours, if the Japanese are
           fucked up, we ought to have our entire country committed, and
           quickly.  otoh, if you're asking why this psycho went off like
           he did, damn, I wish I could tell you.  when they do go for it,
           they really go for it.  --erikred
           \_ I thought the question was asking why one could purchase
              used schoolgirl's underwear from vending machines. -geordan
                 \_ I looked for these in Tokyo, but I do not think they
                    exist.  A lot of the "Japanese people are weird" shit
                    is made up and exaggerated.  -John
                    \_ A Japanese girl told me this and many other stories
                       of bizarre goings on in Japan were true.  She described
                       being molested herself on trains.  She told me of
                       random people offering to buy her underwear.  A
                       Chinese girl I know who spent 3 years in Japan also
                       told me of purchase attempts, vending machines, and
                       all sorts of stuff.  I think everything we've heard is
                       probably true.  But think what goes on in the US.
                       Peole are weird.  --PeterM
                       \_ i've met alot of sheltered kids from the
                       suburbs in college who think all the crazy , fucked-up
                       stuff that goes on in America(with the exception of
                       what they can see on TV) is basically made up.
                       Alot of poeple like to think that crazy stuff is
                       made up to justify their own boring, trite little
                       lives.
        \_ are there a proportionally large number of H4T 45N B4B3Z
           that are japanese?
           \_ sky?  your thoughts?
           \_ It's all about the Koreans, fools!
              \_ Its all about the sailor suits fool!
        \_ All that restraint and "hidden emotion" crap.  It's got
           to come out some how.
           \_ Corruption from the evil Westerners.
              \_ train frottage
        \_ It's the lack of dentists there. They think crooked teeth are sexy.
           \_ that's england.  remember, they like starch and fluoridated
              water there for food.
             \_ no, it's Japan too
             \_ japanese tend to have really crappy teeth.
2000/8/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:18910 Activity:high
8/7     http://lumine.net/engrish
        \_ biology-- engrish is sexy in Japan. A proper Engrish will open
           door to Japanese Chicks. A poor Engrish will close doors on you.
        \_ Hmm, I wonder if there's a similar web site in Japan making fun
           of people like me who try to learn Japanese.
           \_ Learning japanese so you can watch the import anime
                 \_ cunt
              without waiting for the fansubs are you?
              \_ This sounds like jj.
2000/4/24-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:18104 Activity:moderate
4/24    Anybody have a Japanese garden in in their house?  I'm thinking of
        adding one.  I figured out where to get the Japanese maples and
        bamboos but I can't seem to find a place where they sell the little
        tower thing and the small bridges, etc. I'm doing this myself, not
        going to a landscape company.  Thanks.
        \_ There's a store on Piedmont Avenue that has all kinds of crap like
           that.  -tom
           \_ can you be more specific?  if you don't know the name what is
              the cross street on piedmont?  Thanks.
                \_ south of 40th, near Cato's Ale House.
                   (what idiot changed "on Piedmont Avenue" to "in Berkeley"
                   above?)   -tom
        \_ Note: Bamboo is not particularly 'Japanese'.  The variety found in
           Hawaii is much the same as in Japan.  -mtbb.
           \_ Not to mention it is generally used in the singular form.
              \_ You probably mean it is an aggregate noun.  However,
                 this person's usage may be correct if he is referring to
                 a plurality of types of bamboo.
           \_ By the way, if you plan to plant bamboo READ UP ON IT FIRST.
              Bamboo is a beast that will take over your garden, wreck your
              driveway, etc.  And getting rid of it after that stage is
              a serious pain in the ass cause it is all one giant plant.
              You really need to build a thick concrete retaining structure
              in the ground before you plant the stuff.  Otherwise if you are
              living in the same place 5 years down the line you will curse
              the day you planted the stuff.
              \_ ditto for strawberries.. but they tend to be tastier.
                \_ I planted dandelions.  Much easier to maintain.
1999/9/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Computer/SW/Languages] UID:16466 Activity:moderate
9/4     Why is it that while using trn to try to read Japanese sites
        results in single byte garbage, but accessing say, Taiwanese sites
        results in double-byte (but still garbage) characters being
        displayed.  I want to read the Japanese sites in particular, and
        to a lesser extent, the Taiwanese sites.  Modifying the LANG variable
        doesn't seem to effect it at all.  -Hopeless.
        \_ Funny, I wasn't aware that trn let you browse "sites". I thought
           it was a newsreader.
           \_ Pardon my dwindling English skills.
           You don't say what terminal you are using, or whether you know
           you have it set up right, or whether you even know whether you
           have compatible fonts installed on your system. I'm assuming "no"
           to all of the above issues.
           \_
           \_ I'm using xterm, csh.  I beleive I have the LANG variable set
                correctly.  And, yes, I have planety of compatible fonts
                running on my system.  Just hit 'Ctrl-Space' on my keyboard
                and I'm typing away in Japanese --> ܸ
                Although, it comes out as junk in this termnial. -hopeless.
                \_ It's hopeless.  Wipe your system, install 95 and play
                   minesweeper.
1998/6/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:14164 Activity:high
6/2     http://cnnfn.com/hotstories/bizbuzz/wires/9806/02/virtual_wg
        \_ I'm surprised it was Italians instead of the Japanese.
        \_ http://db.photo.net/dating -- it's free, and probably just as
           rewarding.
1998/4/30 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:14022 Activity:insanely high
4/30    So everything I saw in "Joy Luck Club" is true.  I just read
        the DailyCal today about "Asian Women Speak Up".
                \_ for those of us outside of no cal, what did it say?
                   \_ That doesn't have to stop you: http://www.dailycal.org
        \_ Good thing that you didn't sign your name, otherwise the "Asian
           Male Underground" would have to come by and work you over just
           like you were the men's bathroom in the basement of Dwinelle.
                \_ Clearly, one of us has a poor command of the English
                language. I take it correct usage of the English language
                is not a requirement for "Asian Male Underground."
                \_ And exactly what was gramatically incorrect with
                his statement, twink?
                 \_ Read it again with your second grade teacher nearby.
              of the windshield cause, OH WHAT A TURN ON!
                    She'll help you spot the difficulty and work on your
                    trouble areas.  She understands the special needs that
                    FOB students have.
                    \_ still don't see it
           \_ Yes, don't they do just the most fabulous work!? The AMU
              members have such a good eye; I think they should all be in
              either fashon design or interior design and ohmygod they are
              so-o-o hard and tough I just wanna take 'em home to mamma,
              they're so CUTE! Do you think they'll like me if I get a
              black Accura Integra with an <Oakland> decal across the top
              of the windshield cause, OH LORD WHAT A TURN ON! YES!!!
                \_ I have to say that you have a good eye. Nothing turns
           slightly abnormal behaviors people have mentioned above.
                me on more than the site of some Asian boy in a really
                expensive car his parents bought for him. I wonder if
                their mothers wipe their asses after they go to the
                bathroom?
                \_ No.  Mom is there with the enema bag so they don't risk
                   falling in unsupervised.
        \_ Asian men have small penises in general.  this leads to the
           slightly abnormal behaviors people have mentioned above. -tom
           \_ cmlee, don't fucking sign my name to shit you write.  Not
              that you don't have a small penis.  -tom
        \_ No, it ignored a key "Joy Luck Club" component: _ALL_ immigrant
           Chinese mothers have to be suppressing some horribly traumatic
           incident in their past, like drowning their children, or watching
           _their_ mothers kill themselves after becoming somebody's concubine,
           or leaving behind a set of twins while fleeing from the Japanese
           during WWII.  The article didn't say _anything_ about that.
                \_ Part II, next week.
        \_ It's good to know that soda is still full of a bunch of fucking
        idiotic racist twinks who don't have the balls to sign what they
        write.  It's funny to realize how far exactly that white-trash
        mentality will get you in life, even if you're just a bunch of closet
        retards.                                  - mlee
        \_ Everyone is a racist one way or another. People in the 80s and 90s
           tend not to display their racism, that's all.
           P.S. tom is a true racist...
        \_ I dare you to come and say such racist things to my face,
           asshole - android
           \_ why the the image of achoi trying to threaten people
              make me smile? -aspo
1998/4/22 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:13994 Activity:low 72%like:14001
4/21    _The Rape of Nanking_ is an excellent book.             -android
        \_ Where can I get it?  Library?...
                \_ http://www.amazon.com
                \_ any decent bookstore should have it.
        \_ Which one?
           "The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II" or
                \_ this one, by Iris Chang, they were showcasing on Sproul.
        \_ Or try
           "The Rape of Nanking: Justifying Anti-Japanese Sentiment in the 1990s"
           "The Rape of Nanking: Rally Cry of the PRC Militarists"
                   I know for sure that it is good.
           "The Rape of Nanking: An Undeniable History in Photographs" ?
2017/11/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/18   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Reference:History:WW2:Japan:
.