Reference History WW2 Germany - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Reference:History:WW2:Germany:
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/09/30 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2012/10/4-10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:54491 Activity:nil
10/4    Werner von Braun, SS, Nazi, married his first cousin. So much
        for the super Aryan race.
2022/09/30 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2009/9/29-10/8 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:53410 Activity:nil
9/29    Can someone tell my why half of the Family Guy theme
        is about 1) Jewish 2) Nazi 3) gay people 4) combination
        of the above? The Weinstein episode, Ann Franke,
        Peter as the brother of Adolf, the constant guy-to-guy
        kissing and gay references... the list goes on and
        on and on. WHY??? Does MacFarlan have a fascination
        with Jews?
        \_ Doesn't everyone?
           \_ no, why should they?
2009/8/17-9/1 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:53272 Activity:nil
8/14    Entertaining Sand Animation. Story of Germans conquering Ukraine in WW2.
        \_ I just watched The Great Raid, it was good; surprisingly.
2009/4/20-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52874 Activity:nil
4/19    Germany boycotting UN anti-racism meeting:
        "In recent meetings, it (Germany) has expressed dismay about some
        governments' attempts to downplay the significance of the Holocaust."
        How dare you say my sin was nothing!?  I'm quitting!
        \_ Seriously? You're giving shit to a country that's trying to take
           responsibility for their past?
           \_ I was just joking.  Actually, I admire what they do, and I hope
              Japan does the same and face its past the same way.  -- OP
           \_ I was just joking.  Actually, I admire what Germany does, and I
              hope Japan can face its past the same way.  -- OP
              \_ So, not srsly. Cool.
        \_ At some point Israel just need to admit that Israel as a nation is
           no different than South Africa 15 years ago... Those who pretend
           that is not the case will do foolish things like what Germany is
        \_ NO FREE SPEECH FOR RACISTS! (Pretty funny that this remark keeps
           getting censored, it proves my point)
2008/12/18-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:52274 Activity:nil
12/18   You know why US economy is messed up? North Korean SUPERNOTES.
        Throughout WW2, Germany produced supernotes to ruin the
        British/US economy. N Korean is doing the very same thing today.
        \_ Seriously?  You believe this crap?
           \- pakistan has flooded places like nepal with high denomination
              fake indian rupees and they they are often not accepted.
2008/12/8-10 [Consumer/Camera, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:52196 Activity:low
        Hitler curses at Nikon D3X, Capture NX, and all the idiotic things
        Nikon has done and totally fucked up in the past 5 years.
        \_ wow you weren't kidding.
        \_ Is this the goddamn The Bunker clip again?  Jesus will that meme
           just die already?
              \_ What does this mean?
            \_ These days it's more "I wish I was single"
                    \_ Anyone have the original with subtitles handy?
        \_ Nikon is fucking up their 50-80 or so years of dominance.
           It's like watching Lehman Brothers' legacy going down the drain.
           It's a sad sad dark moment for all of us Nikon suckers.
2008/10/27-29 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:51696 Activity:kinda low
10/27   I just went to my Oath of Ceremony. I'm a US Citizen now! By the
        way, why do they keep asking if I've ever been a member of the
        Communist Party? What if I'm a socialist at heart, does that
        count as communism? It's none of the government's godamn business
        what party I'm affiliated with. Fucking McCarthiesm still exists
        or what?                                P.S. Go Obama!
        \_ Care to join the National Socialist German Workers' Party?
           \_ I hate Illinois Nazis
        \_ Did they ask if you were a Nazi? They used to ask that, too.
        \_ ACORN!!!!11!!1!!11!1111one
        \_ They ask this a lot when you apply for a government clearance as
           well. Most of it's legacy from the McCarthy/Hoover days.
           \_ It ain't 1950 anymore. What if I tell them I'm a communist?
              Is the government going to lock me up for it even though it's
              the 21st century? Come on...
              \_ Presumably not. However, change comes slowly in govt. They're
                 _required_ to ask you, even if there are no consequences.
                 \_ Wouldn't it be funny if you applied for a government
                    job and told them that you're a communist openly?
                    Sounds like a cool Punked TV episode.
                 \_ I am pretty sure that your security clearance would be
                    denied if you told the interviewer that you were currently
                    a Communist. It would certainly require you to go through
                    more thorough screening, especially for TS clearance.
2008/8/20-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50917 Activity:nil
8/20    Germany wins a bunch of equestrian medals. Are Germans richer
        than Americans? Expensive sports man.
        \_ Germany has three luxury automotive brands.  US has zero.
        \_ الله أَكْ!
           \_ Cadillac qualifies. Possibly so does Lincoln. However,
              Germany has 4: BMW, MB, Audi, Porsche. Ford owns Volvo and
              GM owns Saab. I don't know how you count those.
              \_ Oh, I forgot about Audi.  I personally still think of Volvo
                 and Saab as Swedish brands.  -- PP
2008/8/17-21 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:50889 Activity:nil
8/17    Family Guy. What's up with all that historical references to
        Hitler, Germans, and Jewish people? Almost every other episode
        makes fun of Hitler and the Jews. Whats up man.
        \_ Family Guy is pretty formulaic shock comedy.  As since it is
           hard to actually do shock comedy without either being lame or
           offensive, they take the easy path and go the lame route.  Hitler
           and Germany are pretty safe ways to look like you are being
           shocking without actually having to worry about going to far.
2008/7/25-29 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50681 Activity:nil
7/25    200,000 or 20,000?
        \_ Dittohead Desperaton Level: Red
           \_ Troll level, poor.
              \_ Dittohead Desperaton Level: Still Red
           \_ I just want to know what the number is. This makes me desperate?
        \_ He's in France now, should he call our French allies
           "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys"? Hey, are you guys still
           calling them "Freedom Fries"? Just curious.
              \_ Numbers are irrelevant in the face of hope and change.
2008/7/23-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50659 Activity:moderate
7/23    See, I told you he was HITLER!
        \_ I thought Obama was a Marxist. Is he Hitler, too?
           Obamarxhitler just doesn't have the same ring as Bushitler, does it?
           \_ Obama == Socialist ~ National Socialist == Nazi == Hitler
              \_ Socialist >>> Bush Reagan Capitalist > McCain
                 Therefore, Obama >>> McCain
              \_ This is too long for a soundbite, you need a way to say
                 this in a snappier fashion.
        \_ I orignially posted about Obama's choice to speak in front of the
           victory column.  My intention wasn't to imply the Obama was Hitler,
           just that he was incredibly arrogant and aften tone deaf.  I expect
           this sort nonsense from Bush, but you'd think the more 'humble' Obama
           would, I don't know, ask a German where he should have a speech in
           just that he was incredibly arrogant and often tone deaf.  I expect
           this sort nonsense from Bush, but you'd think the more 'humble'
           Obama would, I don't know, ask a German where he should have a
           speech in Germany.
           \_ You know he was denied his original speaking location, right?
              Perhaps the Obama campaign should have you as a consultant,
              since you obviously have his best interest at heart. He should
              dress up in a fighter suit, pad his codpiece, land on a
              aircraft carrier, and give a speech to a cheering throng
              under a "Mission Accomplished" banner like a good Republican
              fake war hero instead? Where was your outrage at the fascist
              overtones then?
              \_ 1. Yes his original location was the Brandenburg Gate.  Which
                    was a jaw-droppingly arrogant, and insulting, first choice.
                    He can't ask a German?
                    \_ "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
                       \_ Ummm... Yes?  Said a standing President? Your point?
                          \_ So it is okay when Reagan does it, but not when
                             Obama does? Got it. I see where you are coming
                             from, thanks.
                             \_ Was it a campaign stop for Reagan too?  Reagan
                                wasn't invited to speak there?  Oh. You have
                                no idea what you're talking about? Got it. I
                                see where you are coming from, thanks.
                                \_ "Milk Strike ends at Brandenberg Gate"
                                   "Fulan Gong Rally at Brandenberg Gate"
                                   It gets used for all kinds of things. Are
                                   you German or something? I don't think you
                                   know what you are talking about, you are
                                   just parrotting some right wing talking
                                   just parotting some right wing talking
                                   points you heard somewhere.
                                   \_ see below.
                          \_ Why can't the presumptive president use the same
                             \_ Hey Germans, I think this hugely important
                                landmark, usually reserved only for visiting
                                heads of state, would make a nice campaign
                                speech backdrop, how that sound to you?
                                speech backdrop, how's that sound to you?
                                \_ Sounds to me like exactly the kind of
                                   thing that a Harvard educated elitist
                                   would think was a good idea.
                                \_ It actually gets used almost daily by
                                   various sorts of protestors and the like.
                                   Who told you otherwise?
                                   \_ Sorry, I wasn't clear and overstepped
                                      there.  Obviously context is important.
                                      The Gate is a public area, I didn't mean
                                      to imply it was sealed up or something.
                                      But there's a huge difference between
                                      a bunch of German protestors and a
                                      foreign pol giving a speech there.  The
                                      latter comes with HUGE political
                                      \_ 2 weeks ago if someone had said
                                         Obama was having a speech at
                                         the Brandenberg Gate you would have
                                         not be blathering this bullshit.
                                         However, you read a bunch of blogs
                                         flinging shit at Obama desperatly
                                         trying to make "gaff prone elist"
                                         stick and suddenly it is OBVIOUS
                                         HOW ELITIST AND TONE DEAF Obama
                                         was.  Jesus H. Motherfucking Christ
                                         you are so damn perdictable. -!pp
                                         \_ Predictable?  I predicted your
                                            petty pointless frothing before
                                            I posted this.  You accusations
                                            are false, but I don't feel any
                                            need to discuss with a gibbering
                                            monkey.  Good day.
                                            \_ You are fooling noone.
                                      \_ So who exactly would have been
                                         offended by Obama's speach at
                                         the Brandenburg gate?
                                         \_ HITLER
                                         \_ Bush's attack poodle, Merkel.
                 2. "I expect this sort of nonsense from Bush..." Can you read?
                 \_ Anyone running for the office of President of the United
                    States is arrogant, almost by definition. The closest thing
                    we ever say to humility in that office was Carter, and you
                    can see where that got us.
                    \_ Ok, true.  But I don't think a little bit of sensitivity
                       to our allies is wildly unrealistic.
                       \_ he's so fucking insensitive that every German TV
                          network covered his speech and 200,000 people came
                          network covered his speech and 20,000 people came
                          out to see him speak.  What an asshole.  -tom
                          \_ HILTER drew large german crowds
                             OBAMA draws large german crowds
                             HITLER == OBAMA qed
        \_ Who the hell is Melissa Clouthier, and why would I want to read her
2008/7/21-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50649 Activity:nil
7/21    Ah, Obama's not a flip-flopper, he's just a liar
        \_ No, he's HITLER
           \_ lol @ your inability to handle Obama criticism
              \_ Lol at your weak sauce. !pp
        \_ Jan 10, 2007: surge won't work, will increase violence
           Jan 5, 2008:  I've always said the surge would work
           \_ See, just like HITLER
              \_ You mean Stalin.
                 \_ POL POT!!!!!!1one
2008/7/20-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50641 Activity:high
7/20    Oh, that crazy Obama, he couldn't get the Brandenberg gate, so he
        switched to Hitler's favorite monument of militaristic dominance.,1518,566920,00.html
        Not that he could have asked any German reporters about this.  (Washington Post)
        \_ Yes, because Obama LOVES HITLER!  He's a crazy secret muslim
        \_ Perhaps it is part of Obama's effort to reach out to White
           \_ Don't forget he's a commie who wants to raise all our taxes
              to 100% and outlaw all guns except if the state needs to use
              them in an "on-demand" abortion.
              \_ HITLER!
                 \_ Um, deal with it. When Obama wins, you'll have to learn
                    to live with this crap for the next 4 years just like
                    everybody had to deal with BUSH=HITLER nonsense for the
                    past 8 years. It's a small price to pay for having your
                    team finally win one.
                    \_ You are missing what is important here.  Obama is
                    \_ Wait, you mean you stopped calling Dems HITLER, LIAR,
                       and FLIPFLOPPER when Bush became Pres.? Your weak sauce
                       is old news.
                    \_ Not sure Obama is going to survive 4 years with all
                       the gun-toting whackos in this country.
                       \_ The gun-toting whackos in the Secret Service will
                          protect him just fine.
                          \_ Just like they did JFK and Raygun.
                             \_ Yeah, too bad JHJr assassinated Reagan. Oh,
                                wait, he _didn't_. Secret Service hasn't
                                lost anyone since JFK. Get over it.
                                \_ Oh yes, because Reagan and Brady managed to
                                   survive I guess that means the SS did its
                                   job. Maybe Obama will just be a vegetable
                                   so you can still stand by your stupid point.
                                   \_ Right, it's easier for you to imagine
                                      that the Secret Service is incompetent
                                      than to simply accept that the fact that
                                      no one's been assassinated since JFK is
                                      a result of professionalism.
                                      \_ Only in your world is the POTS being
                                      \_ Only in your world is the POTUS being
                                         shot and nearly dying considered a
        \_ Perhaps it is part of Obama's effort to reach out to the White
           Supremicist vote.
2008/5/16-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:49974 Activity:nil
5/16    Seattle Times editor defends Hitler, Chamberlain. WTF?
        \_ Uh, did you even read the article?
           \_ Uhhh.. yes. "What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable."
              \_ it is kind of cool that he self Godwin'ed
              \_ Uh, did you read the *whole* article?
2008/4/9-12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49695 Activity:nil 66%like:49676
4/7     this has it all.  Nazis, nazis, and nazis: [nyt]
2008/4/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49676 Activity:nil 66%like:49695
4/7     this has it all.  Nazis, nazis, and nazis:
2008/3/21-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49527 Activity:nil
3/21    I had no idea that German toilets were so odd, any comments?
        \_ Heil German John! Can you explain to us, John?
2008/3/20-25 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:49516 Activity:nil
3/20    "Television's History Channel is History"
        Why?  I like the History Channel shows, exactly because most of them
        are not about history.  Why are they doing this?
        \_ OH SHIT Where am I going to get my dosage of Hitler history?
        \_ What, dropping the "The" from their title? I don't see the outrage.
           \_ No, it's dropping the "The" and the "Channel".
        \_ Can they just broadcast MAILCALL 24 hours a day?  I'd watch.
2007/12/14-19 [Recreation/Dating, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:48799 Activity:nil
12/14   Day 11, 0 masterbation and I'm actually starting to feel GREAT! No
        sinful urges whatsoever, much less sleep and much more productive
        at work. First week was quite a struggle but after going through
        withdraw I feel pretty good now. I also walk/run more to release
        a lot of sexual frustrations which I think probably contributed to
        losing 2 pounds and feeling great. I can't believe I'm saying this
        but abstinence rules, no wonder the same 2 religious guys near
        Campinelle and Dwinelle Hall who tried to get me to go to church
        always seem so happy and optimistic as if they're on drugs all the
        time. You know, if abstinence & exercise work for dumb ass GWB,
        it must work for for anyone. I still watch the History Channel but
        I no longer porn browse and jerk off in parallel. I'll still
        post on the motd if there are cool Hitler, WW2, & Jewish stuff
        worthy to troll on motd.   anyways i m liberated from
        the shackles of human sexual urges and i feel immortal!
        GO ABSTINENCE!  w00t!                           -no laid guy #3
        \_ dans? is that you?
        \_ You might try adding avoiding all wheat gluten too while you're at
        \_ Trolls just ain't what they used to be. At the very least spell
           the word correctly: MASTURBATION
        \_ Sinful urges? 2 happy religious guys? GWB? Abstinence? All you
           missed was the global warming, abortion, and gun control trolls.
           Oh and death penalty.  I think that would have covered all your
           bases.  Belong to us.
2007/11/12-14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:48619 Activity:low
11/12   Happy WW2 Day! For fun, let's hypothetically say that you're Hitler
        in WW2 and had a large Jewish labor force at your disposal, what
        would you have them do for you assuming you've come to the
        realization that ethnic cleansing is stupid?
        \_ One word:  Zaftig!
           \_ I second that! Plump & juicy!
        \_ A dance number?
        \_ Build pyramids
        \_ lock them up till they invent super weapons
2007/11/12-16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:48616 Activity:nil
11/12   Happy Veteran's Day! History Channel is full of WW2, Hitler, Jews,
        etc. Make sure to watch it!
        \_ No Nanjing Massacre?
2007/10/27-11/1 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:48460 Activity:very high
10/26   Except for Hiroshima/Nagasaki, is it actually possible to bomb
        people into submission? It seemed to failed with the Londoners,
        Germans, Vietnamese, Afghanistan, etc.
        \_ worked all right with the Germans.  bombing them from the air
           isnt the only thing that let to their defeat but it helped some.
           \_ Most historians don't really agree with you here. Maybe it
              reduced their tank and plane production slightly, which
              helped shorten the war slightly. It did not effect the
              "will to fight."
              \_ I don't understand this new fad of declaring unsavory tactics
                 like torture or civilian bombing 'ineffective.'  Of course
                 they are effective.  Have you read "why the allies won?"
                 There is a whole chapter on bombing.  We don't live in a
                 convenient world where all immoral choices can be rejected
                 on amoral grounds. -- ilyas
                 on amoral grounds.  Are you willing to backup your
                 'most historians' claim or this the old 'argument by
                 non-existence consensus?'  -- ilyas
                 non-existent consensus?'  -- ilyas
                              \- i think declaring "unsavory tactics" off
                                 limits hugely helps the US, because the
                                 US has a massive advantage in any battle
                                 that involves "fighting fair" where they
                                 define fair.
                 \_ I am sad when I agree with ilyas.  I have to agree that
                    making the civilian population sad and feaful that the RAF
                    is going to drop a ton of explosive on their head is going
                    to reduce their 'will to fight' and 'will to build
                    tank' and 'will to put up with Hitler'
                   \_ The civilian population had a will to fight in Feb 1945?
                      How were they supposed to stop it? No, the purpose
                      might be to attempt to shock the leadership. But that
                      relies on there being a rational leadership.
                      \_ In Csarist Russia, the loses on the front led to the
                         government being overthrown. In France, the troops
                         mutinied late in WWI. Nothing like this happened in
                         Germany (or Japan) due to the allied bombing campaigns.
                         German workers continued to work under horrific
                         conditions and followed orders all the way to the
                         surrender. German soldiers fought to the end in Berlin.
                         \_ It is not possible for 'business to remain as usual'
                            when your life is put under daily threat.
                              -- ilyas
                         \_ If the Germans hadn't sent VI LENIN back to Russia,
                            the revolution wouldn't have had legs. Along
                            similar lines, the folks who could have led
                            revolutions in Germany and Japan either failed
                            due to bad timing and lack of assurances or didn't
                            ever have the forces necessary to force the issue,
                   \_ See Strategic_bombing_during_World_War_II#Effectiveness
                      on wikipedia. It is certainly open for debate, but
                      German production of tanks, plane and guns increased
                      during 1944, the year of the heaviest bombing. It did
                      have a substantial effect on oil production.
                      \_ The question is whether production would have been
                         higher had there been no bombing. -- ilyas
                         \_ No the question is more subtle and harder to
                            answer: could the materiel and manpower deployed
                            to the strategic bombing campaign been more
                            usefully deployed elsewhere? Like for instance
                            tactical bombing and air control, which
                            undoubtedly had a huge effect, or a larger number
                            of tanks, which Britain was woefully short of.
                            \_ The only allied power with good tanks was the
                            \_ I agree that it's not at all clear whether
                               strategic bombing was the best use of resources.
                               However, the part I objected to was the claim
                               that strategic bombing was 'ineffective.'
                                 -- ilyas
                               Incidentally more tank production for non-USSR
                               allied countries would have been a terrible idea
                                -- Britain and US had terrible tanks.  -- ilyas
                               \_ If the allies had taken a course of action
                                  that would have made them win faster but
                                  instead used strategic bombing as a tactic,
                                  which wasted men, materiel and focus, thereby
                                  making the war last longer, then I think this
                                  means that strategic bombing was not only
                                  ineffective, but counterproductive. But I
                                  guess at this point we are quibbling over
                                  definitions. The one thing that strategic
                                  bombing might have accomplished it to force
                                  the Luftwaffte fighter force to sally,
                                  allowing us to shoot them down and gain air
                                  superiority. But there were easier and less
                                  roundabout ways to do this. Do you think that
                                  unarmoured troops in jeeps were more effective
                                  than tankers in Shermans? American tanks
                                  were not as bad as their reputation, they
                                  just weren't as good as the best German tanks.
                                  Very few Tigers and Panthers were ever made.
                                  Off the top of my head, I think we made 10x
                                  Shermans for every Panz-V and Panz-VI, while
                                  losses were something like 2x in tank battles.
                                  \_ I bet most German tank losses were due to
                                     aircraft (allies had exceptional planes,
                                     and lots of them).  Shermans couldn't kill
                                     Panthers/Tigers.  Shells would bounce off,
                                     you see. -- ilyas
                                     aircraft (the allies had lots of planes,
                                     and they were excellent).  Shermans
                                     couldn't kill Tigers/Panthers.  Shells
                                     would bounce off, you see.  A better way
                                     for the allies to spend resources on tanks
                                     would be to copy Russian tanks.  Germans
                                     did!  -- ilyas
                 \_ tank:
                                     \_ It depends on which Sherman and from
                                        which angle. The US tanks got
                                        slaughtered early on, because they were
                                        told they could stand toe to toe with
                                        the Panthers, which they could not.
                                        We learned to attack in swarms and take
                                        some losses in order to get a side or
                                        rear shot. Also, we got uparmored pretty
                                        quickly with some better guns and AP
                                        rounds (HEAT, I think) that gave us
                                        a fighting chance. I wonder what
                                        percentage of tanks kills were from the
                                        air? Quite a few, no dobut. Even more
                                        important was the fact that the Panzers
                                        were always short of ammo and fuel, due
                                        to supply line inderdiction.
        \_ Works for the type of people who are very submissive (e.g. those
           who are willing to do silly things like suicide for their
           Emperor, perform Bukake, and draw porn manga). The British,
           Germans, Vietnamese and Afghans on the other hand are in
           general very proud of themselves and/or are very defiant
           thus they'd never surrender.
           \_ E_TOOSHORT
           \_ yes because Japan is not proud of itself.  Just ask anyone
              in East Asia.
        \_ We bombed the greater Tokyo area too.
           \_ We firebombed 67 cities in Japan:
              See also McNamara in Fog of War. It's arguable that Nagasaki
              and Hiroshima were more for demonstrating US possession of
              atomic bombs to the Soviets. -!pp
              \_ McNamura?  BTW this name sounds almost Japanese.
        \_ Nuke and Pave!
        \_ We bombed the Serbs, and they gave up their campaign of genocide
           in Kosovo.
           \_ So that Albanians could continue their campaign of genocide in
              \_ *shrug* op asked for examples of bombing ppl into submission.
                 Mission Accomplished.
        \_ Libya. Kadaffi.
           \_ ...what did we convince Colonel K to do via bombing?
        \_ Arguably the Japanese are better off for having submitted.  The
           destruction of their country stopped, they didn't have a violent
           continuing occupation which threw their country back into a
           dark age, etc.
           \_ In addition their submission allowed them to concentrate their
              resources on the development of kick ass products like Wii,
              Prius, and Bukake/Urabon/Hentai
        \_ Ask the residents of Dresden.
           \_ We'll need to live in mobile floating fortresses for all
              to live in to deal with extreme weather and flooding due
              to global warming.  We'll also need to cut about 1/2 the
              surplus population due to reduced fishery output and
              farm production.
              \_ Are you volunteering to be excess population?
           \_ I guess dead is a form of submission, but it didn't really
              slow down the Germans much, if any at all.
              \_ dont give motd armchair historian any ideas.  Islam
                 means 'submission to god'
              \_ They stopped producing weapons in Dresden.
                 \_ Dresden did not have any munitions factories.
                       \_ Did you even read this? It says that there were
                          no munition factories in Dresden. I guess there were
                          a couple of glass factories.
              \_ Because it wasn't militarily relevant. But the Germans were
                 already slowed down. Dresden was February 1945. VE day is
                 May 8. "Bomb people into submission"... the people can't
                 submit even if they want to. The military forces have to
                 \_ hindsight is laser like in its precision.  we probably
                    thought some industrial capacity in Dresden helped Germany
                    with their war effort.  without Dresden you woulndt
                    get great american literature like Cat's Cradle
        \_ we bombed the americans and now they are cowardly talking of retreat
           from Iraq.  -AQ
           \_ "Somalia" is the word you're looking for.
              \_ somalia wasn't a bombing so much as shooting a few soldiers.
                 Westerners have no stomach for war. It shall be their undoing!
                 \_ same basic concept, no?   kill a few folks so the rest stop
           \_ lets not forget Lebanon.
              \_ Too bad Bush doesn't have the sense of Reagan.
                 \_ Because that worked out really well in Lebanon and had the
                    effect of discouraging our enemies around the world while
                    strengthening our allies' spines.  Or not.  Don't they
                    teach history anymore?
                    \_ Of possible interest: Richard Marcinko reported in
                       Rogue Warrior that he suggested instituting a radio
                       pulse on the frequency the suicide bombers liked to use
                       to blow up their bombers prematurely, but this was
                       rejected as being likely to result in civilian
                    \_ Ah yes, it is much better for America to waste $2T
                       and get beaten anyway, like Our Heroic Leader Bush
                       has done. Too bad they don't teach Conservatives
                       the principle of limited government anymore.
        \_ I don't understand why anyone listens or respects Bush in any
           way.  he's poured a couple of trillion down a fucking rathole.
           He should be Shunned in DC.  Entire blocks of people too disgusted
           to look at his face.
           \- in an odd coincidence:
2007/10/20-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48395 Activity:nil
10/19   german shepherd.
        \_ labradoodle
           \_ swami the not so magnificent
              \_ ObSwamiRules
2007/10/8-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:48260 Activity:kinda low
10/8    All you not-getting-laid guys, what do you do for fun besides
        watch The Hitler Channel?  I've been trying to bike more and
        I just sold my tv.  I'm not quite lame enough yet to torrent
        the History Channel.
        \_ Torrent sucks. History Channel's worth it. Get it. You just
           missed today's Columbus documentary. It KICKS ASS. Not having
           sex has made me more knowledgeable than before. I watch the
           History Channel and read books and I actually feel more
           cultured than before.          -not getting laid guy #3
        \_ Orgy with Rosy Palm and her five sisters.
        \_ I'm thinking about Fleshlight.  RealDoll is too expensive.
2007/10/5-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:48248 Activity:moderate
10/5    Although each D-Day landing craft had a 2 men assigned as
        flamethrowers, most of them did not carry flamethrowers out of
        fear that they'd explode. I love the History Channel
                                                -not getting laid guy #3
        \_ Hey get your own nickname! - the original not getting laid guy.
           \_ Sorry I changed my login to not getting laid #3. Maybe
              we should start a loser club or something?
           \_ Hold on how un-laid are you?  I'm watching the history
              channel two. some SF freaks are talking about German
              jet engines.  awesome.  - original not getting laid guy.
              \_ hi I'm #3, I love the Weird Weapons of the Axis/Allies.
                 Jet engines are cool too. Go ME262, they kick ass!
                 Well actually they kind of sucked compared to the P-51
                 Mustangs, since ME262 had bad maneuverability, etc etc.
                 But hey, the idea's cool.
                 \_ And they run out of fuel after a few minutes and have to
                    glide back to base where upon American fighters just
                    pull in behind and shoot them down easily.  And they
                    required a difficult to produce and incredible toxic
                    fuel.  ME262 was cool.  For the Allies.  Hitler should
                    have let his generals run the war.  Fortunately, he was
                    insane and militarily untalented so the Allies were able
                    to win.
                    \_ Hitler was a micromanager. I hate micromanagers.
                    \_ The Allies would have beaten even the greatest military
                       genius in the world, because of economic might and
                       sheer numbers. Only a great politician could have
                       saved the Axis and Hitler, though a great German
                       leader, did not have enough international relations
                       skills to pull it off.
                       \_ If only he had kept the Jew scientists...
                       \_ Can't recall his name right now but the admiral in
                          charge of the german submarines wanted to wait until
                          they had 700+ before launching a war instead of the
                          100? or so they had.  Imagine how the war for the
                          atlantic would have gone with 700 subs or even 350
                          german subs roaming around?  We could not have
                          reinforced Britain, there likely would not have
                          been a dday, etc.  On the Russian front, he didn't
                          allow his generals to pull back to defensible
                          positions after they took ground so the Russian
                          counter attacks hurt a lot more than they should
                          have.  He didn't believe in strategic bombing.  He
                          didn't let his army reinforce the beaches at
                          Normandy until too late.  Need I go on?
                          \_ I am not saying Hitler didn't make mistakes. I
                             am saying that Germany would have lost anyway,
                             because they did not have the military might to
                             defeat Russia and the US. The war could have
                             gone on longer, but Germany would have lost
                             no matter who was advising them militarily.
                             However, with a better politician perhaps France
                             would still be speaking German.
        \_ My wife and I had sex again tonight. -happily married guy
           \_ Married a fatty, huh?
              \_ I'm guessing the pp didn't marry Asian, or is fresh
                 \_ No she is thin and asian. But we have only been dating
                    for seven years, so maybe you are right, things will
                    slow down after a while.
                    \_ Busty?
                       \_ Sorry, no.
2007/10/4-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:48239 Activity:very high
10/4    Irwin Rommel was dismayed when he found out about the
        prosecution of the Jews. Irwin Rommel was a good Nazi.  \-
        E_ROMMEL: It is Erwin. Isnt it "common knowledge" that he was
           a respected foe, e.g. for civil treatment of POWs.  \_ Why
           feed the trolls?  \_ Ethical Nazi
              Nice Nazi Good Nazi All oxymorons, no?  \_ Was Rommel
              actually a member of the Nazi party? -- ilyas
                 \_ Who cares, he fought for da man.
        \- E_ROMMEL: It is Erwin. Isnt it "common knowledge" that he was
           a respected foe, e.g. for civil treatment of POWs.
           \_ Why feed the trolls?
           \_ Ethical Nazi
              Nice Nazi
              Good Nazi
              All oxymorons, no?
              \_ Was Rommel actually a member of the Nazi party? -- ilyas
                 \_ Who cares, he fought for da man.
        \_ During the Nanjing massacre, only white who stood up to Japanese
           pressure and established an "international safety zone" was a
           member of Nazi SA.  Go figures.  In many way, I think Nazi is a
           convenient scapegoat for the overall, wide-spread prejudice and
           discrimanitory policies toward Jews through out entire Europe.
           Now, Europeans prefer everyone to think them as "libator from Nazi's
           concentration camp" rather than those who also discriminate against
           Jews for centuries.
        \_ During the Nanjing massacre, only white who stood up to
           pressure and established an "international safety zone"
           was a member of Nazi SA.  Go figures.  In many way, I think
           Nazi is a convenient scapegoat for the overall, wide-spread
           prejudice and discrimanitory policies toward Jews through
           out entire Europe.  Now, Europeans prefer everyone to think
           them as "libator from Nazi's concentration camp" rather than
           those who also discriminate against Jews for centuries.  \_
           Do you have a point?  The Nazis did a pretty good job of
              discriminating against Jews, by killing most of them.
              \_ killing *most* of them or displacing them??? As in
                 decimating more than 50% of the entire Jews at the
                 time? Do you have URL to support this?
        \_ I have no idea what we are arguing about now.  Get your own
           thread, troll.
                 \_ Geeze, you're seriously asking for a head count?  Does it
                    matter if it was 100k dead or 10m dead?
                    \_ I think 2 orders of magnitude matter.  I think the
                       official count is 6m.
                       \_ Technically, "most" means >= (6.0000000m + 1)
                 \_ Geeze, you're seriously asking for a head count?
                 Does it
                    matter if it was 100k dead or 10m dead?  \_ I think
                    2 orders of magnitude matter.  I think the
                       official count is 6m.  \_ Technically, "most"
                       means >= (6.0000000m + 1)
                           out of 12.000000m TOTAL number of Jews.
                          \_ Sigh... technically 100k is mass murder and so
                             is 6m and so is 1b.  Why quibble?  Does it make
                             the Nazis any less evil if they didn't murder
                             "most" of the Jews?
                          \_ Sigh... technically 100k is mass murder
                          and so
                             is 6m and so is 1b.  Why quibble?  Does it
                             make the Nazis any less evil if they
                             didn't murder "most" of the Jews?  \_
                             Why quibble? Why not? Why say "most of them"
                                if it's not true?
                                \_ Because it doesn't matter and this entire
                                if it's not true?  \_ Because it doesn't
                                matter and this entire
                                   thread was a troll from the op?
        \_ Can we stop with this Jewish victimization schtick.  Germany in WWII
           was fighting against a Jewish controlled Bolshevik Russia.  Jews
           tried a Bolshevik revolution in Germany as they did in Russia, but
           failed.  They also controlled a hugely disproportionate amount of
           power in Weimar Germany, and tried to subvert traditional Christian
           German society much in the same way they are doing, quite successfully,
           in the US.  60 million died in WWII, of which perhaps a few million
           were Jews.  So who is going to cry for the slavs, Poles, and French?
        \_ Can we stop with this Jewish victimization schtick.
        Germany in WWII
           was fighting against a Jewish controlled Bolshevik Russia.
           Jews tried a Bolshevik revolution in Germany as they did
           in Russia, but failed.  They also controlled a hugely
           disproportionate amount of power in Weimar Germany, and
           tried to subvert traditional Christian German society much in
           the same way they are doing, quite successfully, in the US.
           60 million died in WWII, of which perhaps a few million were
           Jews.  So who is going to cry for the slavs, Poles, and French?
           \_ Heehee! -- ilyas
2007/9/25-27 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:48187 Activity:nil
9/25    healthcare insurance thread: 12 pages and going!  rock on peterm!
        \_ You can call me a troll, but you can't call me an anonymous
           troll!  (Not for that one anyway.)  --PeterM
           \_ :-)  I truly admire your efforts.  Well past 12 pages and
              no one has even mentioned Hitler or the Nazis yet.  This
              is a great one.  --your #1 Fan
2007/9/10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47971 Activity:nil
9/10    German John, are you as shocked as I am that a German
        documentary crew last week discovered a Nazi shrine in an old
        Hitler bunker in a mountain?  I mean what are the odds that Hitler
        would have a Nazi shrine.  I'm in shock.
2007/7/23 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47392 Activity:nil
7/23    Heil Hitler!
        \_ Germany was having trouble
           What a sad, sad story
           Needed a new leader to restore
           Its former glory
           Where, oh, where was he?
           Where could that man be?
           We looked around and then we found
           The man for you and me
           And now it's...
           Springtime for Hitler and Germany
           Deutschland is happy and gay!
           We're marching to a faster pace
           Look out, here comes the master race!
           Springtime for Hitler and Germany
           Rhineland's a fine land once more!
           Springtime for Hitler and Germany
           Watch out, Europe
           We're going on tour!
           Springtime for Hitler and Germany...
           \_ Going through grandpa's garbage, to see what I could find.
              I find a bunch of goodies, from 1945.
              I see all those items, from the good old days.
              His metals in his hands, and his uniforms all gray!
              Grandpa was a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              Grandpa was a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              Grandpa was a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              Sturmfuehrer, Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              In an SS Panzer unit grandpa rolled with pride.
              Cleansing Bolshevics from the Russian country side!
              Every red commie bastard that stood in his way.
              Hey would shoot them down, day after day!
              Today I smile when I see his uniform.
              I know it's battle tested, I know it's battle worn!
              Death Head on his hat, gleams in my eyes!
              Hail! to your grandpa, now your grandpa's by your side!
              I'll be a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              I'll be a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              I'll be a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              Sturmfuehrer, Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              Grandpa was a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              Grandpa was a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              Grandpa was a Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
              Sturmfuehrer, Sturmfuehrer, in the SS.
2007/7/20 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47359 Activity:nil
        RETARDED:  Hitler Hitler Hitler!
2007/7/20 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47351 Activity:nil
7/19    Hitler Hitler Hitler!
2007/7/19-21 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47346 Activity:nil
7/19    tom cruise makes a good Nazi
        \_ You VILL have your strezz levuls meazured
2007/7/16-17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47304 Activity:nil
7/16    Are all German women this distracting German John?
        \- E_ZU_SEXY_FUR_DEN_BUS
2007/7/7-11 [Reference/History/WW2, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47217 Activity:nil
7/7     I just saw Band of Brothers. Curahee!! Like I said,
        German artillery is the best.
        \_ D-Day Weekend on the History Channel.
        \_ In WW2, are parametics somehow magically exempt from getting
           targetted? German snipers could have easily picked them off
           but didn't. Why?
           \_ Who says they didn't?
           \_ Geneva convention, I guess.  Paramedics are not armed and
              fighting, although they are in uniform.
              \_ GC were violated all over the place by all parties in WW2.
           \_ my guess is that in the battle field, they were so busy killing
              those who has potential to threaten them (i.e. those in arms),
              that shooting parametics are simply very low on their priority.
              \_ I read something a few years ago that said most rounds fired
                 in WW2 weren't aimed at anyone in particular, just the
                 general direction of the enemy to get them to stay down and
                 not shoot back.
2007/6/27-29 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47086 Activity:moderate
6/27    Did you know the Russian army had the largest number of female
        snipers in WW2? Many of them were super hot too!
        \_ UGh I actually read the horrible book that Jude Law movie
           about Russian snipers was based on.   I'm sure the Soviet
           propaganda masters told everyone the female snipers were hot
           and the men were manly.
        \_ Yeah yeah I watched this last week too:
           But I don't remember it saying the female snipers were hot.
           \_ They didn't say it but the pictures of those women in their
              teens and early 20s... SUPER HOT RUSSIAN BABES!!!
              \_ Were any of them large brested?
                 \_ motd boob guy where do you live.  im gonna beat you
           \_ I don't image the history channel would have described them as
              hot, no. I assume the op saw pictures in the show?
           \_ I saw the same show & pictures.  No hotties.  You're confused.
        \_ Were they hotter than Russian tennis players?
2007/6/25-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Science/GlobalWarming, Reference/History/WW2] UID:47068 Activity:low
6/26    I have concluded that the most effect troll baits are, in the
        order of effectiveness:
        -GWB & his Iraq War
        \_ you gotta admit, Iraq is a major issue.
        -WW2 superiority of Germans, Russians, Americans
        \_ i dont think that was such a bad troll.
        \_ That's not really a troll.  Apparently a few motders are WWII nuts,
           and like talking about WWII, but if you notice the discussion is
           very civil.
        -The superiority of suburbs vs. cities
        -I love I hate free market
        \_ Don't forget gun control, a frequent motd favorite
        \_ Don't forget "Is global warming real?", "Is global warming caused by
           human?" and "Is hybrid vehicles the/a/not a solution to global
           warming?"  A now-less effective troll is "Are we running out of
           oil?" which has been superceded by the global warming trolls.
                                \_ I found out today it's "superseded". who knew.
2007/6/25-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:47057 Activity:moderate
6/25    For the guy asking for sources on Polish cavalry charges vs. tanks
        being a load of hoo-haw:  David Irving's claims about this were
        debunked pretty well by Tom Strasnov.  Also, the March 2007 issue of
        Strategy & Tactics (issue 241) has an article by Mark Lardas called
        "Polish Cavalry Charges in WWII" which makes this point with good
        primary sources.  Another reason for the persistence of this myth was
        the Polish film "Lotta" post-WWII (Soviet-sponsored to make the
        Polish officer corps look bad.)  Cavalry units quickly evolved into
        tank hunters; generally they used horses to move but fought on foot
        (except in the few instances, like Krojanty, Mokra and a few other
        battles.)  Regarding the battle of Krojanty (correct, wikipedia entry
        has no primary sources), look at Heinz Guderian's book (Achtung,
        Panzer!) as I believe it has a first-hand account how he had to send
        reinforcements from keeping large numbers of the 20th mot. infantry
        division from breaking and running. also
        has some good info on this.  Yes I was bored.  -John
        \_ Thanks.  I do appreciate you taking the time to provide real sources
           and I happily stand corrected on my original statement re: tanks vs.
           cavalry.  It pushed a button seeing an unsourced wikipedia entry
           being used as an authoritative source.  Anyway, so it was German
           mechanised infantry vs. cavalry which still makes my point about
           German military superiority.  In this battle it threw the Germans
           due to shock value but it isn't the kind of thing that can be
           repeated successfully.  The idea that the Germans weren't militarily
           superior to their neighbors, including the USSR, is laughable.  I
           do apologise for using a bad example.
           \_ The German equipment was inferior and there was less of it
              against the French, the Soviets and the Americans. This is not
              laughable, this is historical fact. German tactics, strategy,
              morale and leadership was superior. That is why they did
              as well as they did. -ausman
              \_ German tanks and planes were not really inferior, especially
                 at the start of the war.
                 \_ Most (not all) were, and laughably so.  The main AFVs
                    were the Pz.I and II, with a smattering of Pz.38(t)s
                    captured during the Czech occupation.  The Wehrmacht
                    had a few Pz.IIIE and Fs, armed with the 37mm KwK36
                    (which couldn't penetrate the armor on most French tanks.)
                    In fact, its only advantage was a 3-man crew.  During the
                    Polish campaign, the vast majority of German forces were
                    foot-borne infantry with a bunch of motorized units.  The
                    Me-109E was a good plane for its time, but the E-1 and E-3
                    models in service in May 1939 were about "on par" for
                    tech of the age.  Likewise the He-111.  As ausman pointed
                    out, German success was due to a mixture of numbers,
                    combined arms ops as an innovation, surprise, chutzpah,
                    and a bit of luck -- look at the battles of Arras and
                    Stonne for what happened to the Germans when met with
                    reasonably similar forces and without the element of
                    surprise.  -John
                    \_ Unless are a student of WWII history, you might not
                       know what all that means. But the German panzer force
                       was overwhelmingly machine gun mounted tanks, which
                       were useless against other tanks. The French had more
                       tanks overall than the Germans and the French tanks
                       were better armed and armoured, the French just didn't
                       know how to use them. I have to check back on air force
                       stats for the Battle of France, but I remember that
                       the combined French/British air fleet was roughly
                       numericly on par with the Germans, and the British
                       fighters were better. The Stuka was a superior tactical
                       bomber, but mostly because the Germans invented dive
                       bombing. Similar statistics were true on the Russian
                       front at the start of that war, too. -ausman
           \_ 'Superiority' is not a scalar quantity.  Surely the Germans
              had technological superiority on every front on June 22nd 1941,
              but even a year later that was no longer true.  The Russians
              introduced a lot of cheap, but extremely effective innovations
              which the Germans later copied, and Americans ignored at their
              peril (barrel chroming, wide tank tracks, sloping armor,
              'cannery' submachine guns, etc). -- ilyas
           \_ It actually was repeated several times.  Cavalry is a tool
              that has a place in modern warfare.  You don't charge tanks
              with it, any more than you send unescorted tanks into urban
              warfare or attack entrenched machine guns with massed infantry.
              As for equipment, Ausman and ilyas are partially right, the
              Germans had heavy tech superiority in a few areas in the
              Polish, French and Russian campaigns, but generally success was
              due to a combination of superior German conduct of warfare and
              sclerotic, inferior leadership and training on the opposing side
              (i.e. in Poland's case, deciding to defend the borders instead
              of the Vistula, for France never having perfected combined arms
              ops despite vastly superior tank tech, and for the Russians,
              wiping out half their officer corps in stupid purges, to name
              a few examples.)  I didn't want to sound pedantic, but this is
              one of several common misconceptions about military realities
              that are propagated by convention, such as Japanese suicide
              pilots being locked into their planes, etc.  -John
              \_ Note that the Russians used Light Cavalry (Cossack)
                 units to great success in WWII, especially as a mobile
                 support element to provide small arms cover for tanks,
                 as well as the traditional cavalry role of raiding, scouting
                 and supply line interdiction. We are even using horse
                 mounted infantry today in Afghanistan, though not really
                 in the traditional cavalry role. -ausman
                 \_ "Mounted infantry".  -John
                    \- hello, you may enjoy also reading about
                       the Battle of Suomossalmi.
                       \_ Suomussalmi.  What's your point?  Pack horses? -John
                    \_ Yes, I used my words carefully there. -ausman
2007/6/20-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:47024 Activity:very high
6/20    Clint Eastwood's twin Iwo Jima movies triggered island name change.
        \_ Of course, the proper romanji is "ioutou" or "ioujima."  Can't
           they get anything right?
        \_ more like they are reverting it to original name, and Iwo Jima
           was just a mistaken name brought about in WWII that stuck.
        \_ I find it intersting that with all the fuss over the Iraq war losses
           they are about just over half what the US lost just in the battle
           of Iwo Jima.
           \_ I find it interesting that you confuse an asymentrical war
              of choice entered on false principles and no exit strategy
              with a provoked war involving several major powers.
              \_ Exit strategy?  War has only one exit strategy: kill the
                 enemy until they stop fighting back.
           \_ yeah, and those 200K dead Iraqis are just a rounding error.
              \_ what we see reported daily is the 3000-odd US deaths. If the
                 Iraqi casualties are reported, its usualy an afterthought.
                 \_ if we are doing this right, US casualties is about
                    20,000.  Consider that we only got less than 120,000
                    troops, US casualty rate is a bit high.
              \_ We don't count Germans and Japanese when we talk about WWII
                 losses, either.
                 \_ WWII was not an asymmetrical war.  -tom
                    \_ Well, it sort of was -- The USSR suffered something like
                       9 million military casualties and 16 million civilian
                       casualties, but the were on our side.
                       \_ Asymmetric warfare refers to the power of the actors,
                          not the number of civilian casualites.  -tom
                          \_ USSR utilized asymmetric warfare tricks in
                             territories conquered by the Germans by using
                          \_ You think the 'actors' were equally powered?  Yes,
                             that is why Polish troops charged German tanks on
                             horses with lances.  Read a book some time.
                             \_ If Germany was so much more powerful than the Soviet
                                Union, why did they lose the war?
                             \_ If Germany was so much more powerful than the
                                Soviet Union, why did they lose the war?
                                \_ Hitler was a bad general, the Germans were
                                   fighting on multiple fronts, the US had
                                   a huge industrial base and was effectively
                                   immune from attack, the Russians destroyed
                                   everything as they retreated, the Russians
                                   were able to use&build industrial capacity
                                   in the far east well out of German range
                                   and ship weapons, etc to the front on
                                   trains.  Is that enough reasons?
                             \_ They did no such thing.  This was a "ha ha
                                stupid Polacks" propaganda story in Germany
                                after the 18th Uhlans demolished a German
                                infantry concentration at Krojarty.  They
                                retreated when German tanks moved up.  Read a
                                book some time.  -John
                                \_ Sounds like you got that from the unsourced
                                   wikipedia article.  Got a URL?
                                   \_ Actually, no.  There was a good
                                      description with sources on one of the
                                      military history boards I read  If you
                                      are interested, contact me and I will dig
                                      it up when I have a moment.  -John
                                \_ Ahem: "This article does not cite any
                                   references or sources.  Please help improve
                                   this article by adding citations to
                                   reliable sources. (help, get involved!)
                                   Any material not supported by sources may
                                   be challenged and removed at any time.
                                   This article has been tagged since March
                                   2007."  This article is no better than me
                                   writing my own article saying it was
                                   Martians on magic brooms who followed their
                                   noble leader, Elvis, a Great Warrior from
                                   the future, into battle to defeat the
                                   \_ OK, where's your reference for
                                      the Polish charging tanks with
                        \_ Lots of reasons.  My theory is the Germans
                           eventually fell to the power of the Russian
                           Human Wave Attack, and the industrial output
                           of the United States was able to prop up and fuel
                           the Russians so they could concentrate on more
                           important things like flinging themselves into
                           battle with the Germans.  Thanks, Russian people!
                           You rule.  The Brits helped a little, the French
                           were too dazed from WW1, and I dunno what Italy
                           was doing but trying to pave Ethiopia.
                                \_ Watch some History Channel. More powerful
                                   does not always win. See American War for
                           \_ Lots of people seem to underestimate USSR's
                              industrial output, as did Hitler. USSR got
                              a lot of US stuff but even at the war's start
                              they had a huge number of tanks for example.
                              \_ T-34!!!
                           \_ US industry and fuel helped, but not as much as
                              the Americans would like to believe.  Personally,
                              I think the biggest turning point in the war was
                              when the Soviet leadership decided to actually
                              fight, move everything beyond the Urals, etc.
                              Western non-involvement would have pushed
                              the storming of Berlin off by a year or two.
                              Germany was fighting a hopeless war in the East.
                              A modern industrialized nation in the 21st
                              century can't seem to be able to pacify a country
                              many times smaller than USSR.  What hope did
                              Germany have?  Especially after they started
                              shooting civilians, and antagonized the native
                              population even more (!?) than Stalin himself.
                               -- ilyas
                              \_ If they had ignored Stalingrad and gone after
                                 Moscow, and not been diverted to Greece
                                 earlier in the year, I think they could have
                                 broken the Soviet government. They didn't
                                 want to occupy all of it anyway, just annex
                                 a big chunk of lebensraum. Still kind of a
                                 long shot. And Germany losing the air war
                                 in the west was critical.
                                 I think small groups of people today have
                                 better ways of terrorism than was
                                 available in the 40's. Iraq is also a
                                 limited case: the US does not take ruthless
                                 measures against the population. Hitler
                                 could have forcefully expelled huge numbers
                                 of people to alleviate these kinds of
                                 problems. Finland etc. would have managed
                                 their own zones as well.
                                 Also, I don't think the Russians were as
                                 suicidally zealous as Islamic militants.
                                 \_ So there you have it. The Greeks won
                                    WW II by beating back the Italians. It is
                                    pretty much what the Greeks have always
                                    claimed. Glad to see someone
                                    acknowledge it! --dim (Greek)
                                    \_ As a Greek I implore you to not claim
                                       yourself as a Greek, ever, again.
                                       The last thing we need is a dim-
                                       witted guy who claims to be a Greek
                                 \_ Napoleon took Moscow.  So what?  You can't
                                    win a war against Russia really, if Russia
                                    still has the will to fight.  Germany
                                    simply had no way to control the sheer
                                    territory involved.  Even in the
                                    occupied parts of Russia, there were
                                    huge parts where German soldiers simply
                                    dared not go. -- ilyas
                                   \_ Hmm. They "won" in WW1, sort of. They
                                      had a good chance at defeating the
                                      main military forces, if they acted
                                      fast enough. Controlling the actual
                                      land wouldn't be important except for
                                      supply lines...
                                      Look what happened to millions of
                                      Germans after the war, and what was
                                      happening to Poland, and most of the
                                      Palestinians. It's not like Iraq
                                      where you can't tell who's who and
                                      anybody might blow you up with a bomb
                                      made out of consumer electronics.
                                      \_ Germans got favorable terms vs.
                                         Russia in WW1 because Lenin thought
                                         it was prudent to get out of the war
                                         to consolidate power.  The leadership
                                         didn't have the will to fight since
                                         they had bigger fish to try -- it
                                         took a quite extraordinary period
                                         of history for Germany to walk
                                         of history for a country to walk
                                         away from a 'land war in Asia'.
                                         Russia did employ 'terrorist
                                         methods' extensively vs the Germans
                                         in WWII.  It was a very effective
                                         tactic due to the differences in
                                         technology, manpower, and land
                                         sizes involved. -- ilyas
                                         sizes involved.  Additional food
                                         for thought: I heard that the two
                                         worst winters on record in Russia
                                         happened in 1812 and 1943.  -- ilyas
        \_ I wish there was a HD version of the history channel.  I think
           the bbc has 'THE WORLD AT WAR'?  maybe i'll go buy it.  love
           the war.  love the MAIL CALL.  I heard the mail call say
           that our b52 bombings convinced the north vietnamese to sue
           for peace.... i think it was actually a secret message from
           Mao that did that.  I'm too apathetic to write them a letter
           and complain.
2007/6/16-19 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:46985 Activity:kinda low 61%like:46987
6/16    Heil German John! Even the 72 year olds are mighty!
        \_ You got it all wrong. It's "Heil Almightly German Nazi Squirell!"
           \_ You may refer to me as SS Poster Boy.  -John
           \_ You may refer to me as SS GBIB.  -John
2007/6/16-19 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:46981 Activity:high
6/16    It's been over 50 years. Why the hell are we still fascinated
        by Hitler? 1/2 of History Channel's programs are on Hitler.
        \_ We won WW2. Mission Accomplished! Happy ending.
        \_ It's also known as "The Hitler Channel"
           The most despised man in the entire history history of mankind,
           is also one of the most popular persons to talk about today.
           Ironic isn't it?
        \_ Apparently THC has a preference for WWII footage because it's out
           of copyright, so they don't have to pay royalties for news tapes
           and such. Footage from newer wars is more expensive, and there's no
           video from older wars, so war shows focus on what they've got. If
           you're asking why THC shows so many war shows, that's a different
        \_ Defeating Hitler was America's biggest rah-rah moment.  Everything
           else is ambiguous.  World War I did not have a clear reason or
           moral basis, and the ending was unsatisfying.  Japan had the moral
           question of the use of nuclear weapons.  Vietnam was the darkest
           era in American history since the Civil War.  (Possibly now
           eclipsed by the Dubya era).  Bottom line; no one wants to be
           depressed by their TV.  -tom
           \_ may be they should run a special on Operation Desert Storm.
              We totally kicked ass on that one!   :D
        \_ I think it's the old man market.  also they show
           MAIL CALL.
        \_ MAIL CALL.  HOO-RAH.
           \_ Except most of the actual work, from breaking Wehrmacht's back
              in the East, to actually storming Berlin was done by Russia.
              \_ GOOOOOO JOE!
              \_ I don't watch the history channel much, but I'm pretty sure
                 they don't emphasize Russia's role.  -tom
                 \_ "I don't watch much but ...".  Yes they do.  Sheesh.
                    \_ they mentioned it, but I think it's not to the
                       proportion which USSR deserves.
                       \_ On what?  One show?  I've seen entire programs
                          devoted to single battles between the Germans and
                          Russians in WWII.  Oh no, boo hoo, the poor Russians
                          don't get enough credit for WWII on THC!  Anyone
                          watching THC knows what the Russians did, even if
                          THC is their only source of WWII information.
        \_ I talked to some tv people.  it's about 50 percent
           lack of royalties needed for ww2 footage, 40 percent
           old man market, maybe 10 percent war is depressing.
        \_ Because it isn't every day that there's a world war which includes
           huge troop movements, fighting on land/sea/air, the destruction of
           entire countries, genocide on an industrial scale, and enough
           quality film to make a worth while documentary on it.  As far as
           THC goes, I've had THC on all day/evening for the last few days
           and haven't seen a single word about Hitler or WWII.  So what are
           you talking about?  But if you want to know about Ice Road Truckers,
           (in HIGH DEF!) I'm with you, Brother!
           \_ Personally, I prefer Strawberry Cough to Diesel for my THC.
              \_ I prefer Dogfights.  Cool animation.
                 \_ E_TOOSHORT
                    \_ Care to elaborate?
        \_ Snazzy dresser, liked dogs & children, sexy mustache.  -John
        \_ I think ther Germans today are more obsessed with Hitler's sins
           than us.
           than we are.
           \_ Rightly so.  Why do you think that might be, hmmm?
           \_ "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
              But in ourselves, that we are underlings." -- ilyas
2007/6/1-5 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46834 Activity:nil
2007/3/14-15 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45964 Activity:nil
3/14    Heil German John! Are all German senior citizens so courageous?
2007/3/10-12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:45925 Activity:nil
3/10    Wacky news of the week from Deutschland
        Google Earth urged to remove "Mount Hitler" name
        German man chainsaws house in two in divorce split
        HEIL CHURMAN SWISS JOHN you are no longer here but your spirit
        lives on forever on motd HEIL CHERMAN SWISS JOHN
2006/10/14-16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:44820 Activity:high
10/14   Bush Brownshirts attack gallery owner for displaying
        contriversial art:
        So one of the Bush supportes on the motd claims that this was
        a "hoax." Do you seriously believe that this woman broke
        her own nose as a publicity stunt?
        \_ 1) Go read this for what the real brown shirts did:
              If you read that you might learn something.
              By slapping "hitler!!!" on every trivial event you only make
              yourself sound like Chicken Little and an ignorant idiot.
           2) A single isolated event does not a conspiracy make.  Here are
              two more isolated events that prove nothing:
              \_ It was hardly a single isolated event. That was the one
                 in *San*Francisco* that I was aware of. This kind of thing
                 was repeated hundreds of times all over the country. It is
                 to bad you think that a random gang attack on an unfortunate
                 soldier on leave is somehow equavalent to calculated
                 political violence intended to intimidate and silence
                 \_ So you have a problem with equating two acts of violence
                    against individuals (neither of which were state-
                    sanctioned) but you have no problem with equating a single
                    act of violence with the systematic state-organized
                    round-up of Jews? Okay, this is obviously a troll here.
                    Everybody move along...
                 your opponents. By the Bush Adminsitration standards, the
                 attack on the gallery owner was in fact terrorism, but you
                 will never see the GOP go on record as opposing their thugs.
                 The second attack "baby killer" one, is reprehnesible too.
                 \_ This kind of thing was repeated hundreds of times all
                    over the country? Really? Where is the proof? If this
                    is really happening, I guess the vast-right-wing
                    conspiracy that controls the media is covering it up.
                    \_ No, it was all dismissed as some local rowdy. It
                       just isn't "news." Just like the soldier that got
                       beaten up, it was never widely spread. You must
                       not get out of the Bay Area much.
                       \_ I see.  It has happened everywhere but no one knows
                          about it because it has been covered up by the VRWC.
                          Ok.  We're done here.
                       \_ So basically this is an organized campaign of
                          terror that has been skillfully disguised by
                          the Bush Brownshirts to look like a bunch of
                          random acts of violence by some local loony?
                          Well, I guess the people behind the coverup
                          of the alien presence at Area-51 needed some-
                          thing to do after X-Files went off the air.
                          The Tru7h is Out There!
           3) art is
              going to elicit unwanted and sometimes violent responses from
              idiots.  I don't think someone should have punched her nose in
              for hosting some pictures of Abu Graib but with 300 million
              people in the country I'm not surprised she found one nut.  Is
              there a guy in jail for it?  That's what our system does with
              violent nuts.  Does 1 idiot mean we're on the road to a brown
              shirt night of broken glass?  No.  Come back when you have some
              sense of history.
              \_ No one was punished for the act of violence.
                 \_ Probably because there wasn't an act to investigate.  She
                    didn't conce.
                 \_ Probably because there wasn't an act to investigate.  She
                    didn't cooperate with police so how are they supposed to
                    do their jobs?  Cop magic?  Or was it a conspiracy of The
                    Blue Shield to stand in the way of Progressive Art?  I've
                    changed my mind.  I'm not done here, this is getting fun.
           4) You diminish what really happened to real people who were truly
              innocent by casually flipping Nazi terms at people and seeing
              conspiracy where there is none.  I don't actually expect you to
              get a clue here but it cost me nothing to try.  Please carry on
              with your tinfoil idiocy and abuse of history.
              \_ Beyond wikipedia articles, people who want to know more about
                 what really happened in Germany during the rise of Nazism
                 should read Mein Kampf.  I think that finding elements of
                 mass behavior in today's society that are slightly similar
                 to that of pre-Nazi german behavior is not always crazy, but
                 comparing almost anyone to Hitler is almost always crazy.
                 Fortunately, that man was unique.-!OP
                 should read Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich.  I think that
                 finding elements of mass behavior in today's society that
                 are slightly similar to that of pre-Nazi german behavior is
                 not always crazy, but comparing almost anyone to Hitler is
                 almost always crazy.  Fortunately, that man was unique.-!OP
                 \_ The rise of Nazism was due:  1) the over-
                    representation of Jews in the leadership of the
                    Weimar republic which most Germans viewed as
                    profligate and destroying traditional German society
                    and 2) the overwhelming presence of Jews among
                    the Bolsheviks and their involvement in the Russian
                    revolution which led to the slaughter of millions of
                    Russians.  I imagine most Germans wanted to avoid
                    a similar revolution there.
                    and 2) the disproportionate presence of Jews among
                    the Bolshevik leadership and their involvement in
                    the Russian revolution which led to the slaughter
                    of millions of Russians.  I imagine most Germans
                    wanted to avoid a similar revolution there.
              \_ So your contention is that this is okay because what these
                 guys did was not as bad as what Hitler did? Okay, strange
                 stance to take, but I guess that is where you stand.
                 \_ No, it is not OK to punch someone in the nose because you
                    don't like their art.  Nor is it ok because it doesn't rise
                    to Hitlerian levels of violence.  See point 3.  Thanks.
        \_ Um, Bush Brownshirts? So you are claiming that the President
           sanctioned this attack? Or that the President would refuse to
           enforce criminal sanctions against those who perpetrated the
           attack, if the SFPD and the DA were to bring charges against
              \_ A mouse pad proves Bush sanctioned this alleged attack and
                 hundreds of others no one heard of?  Can one of you investing
                 types please tell me how to get into metals futures?  Thanks.
                 \_ It does, however, prove that you have no sense of irony.
                    \_ It isn't irony.  It's a mouse pad.  Maybe you needed
                       the translation from German to see the lack of irony.
                       \- which bring us back to metals. --man with the iron
                                                           mouse pad
                          \_ aren't you concerned it will rust?  i suspect
                             "rusty mouse pad" is not covered by your dell
                             support agreement.
        \_ It was a hoax:
           \_ It's worth noting that the freeper posts in this thread do not
              offer any support for the alleged nose-puncher.
              \_ This one sure does though:
                 \_ I'm not saying you're wrong, but would you mind
                    a pointer to a particular post?  I don't feel like
                    scrolling through 5 pages of "hee haw!" for that.  -John
                    \_ The Truth IS Out There, John.  You just have to open
                       your eyes!  --Mulder
                       \_ If finding the truth involves sifting through
                          pages of idiots, I'll stay ignorant!  -John
                          \_ You are getting so area 51 abduction black
                             helicoptered.  Then you'll believe.  --Mulder
           \_ Maybe the Bush Brownshirts were too busy to attack her
              that day b/c of all the "hundreds" of other attacks they
              had to carry out (not to mention all the media outlets
              they had to silence), so she took it upon herself to help
              them out and attack herself.
              them out and attack herself. Even if she hadn't faked it,
              it might possibly maybe have happened on its own at some
              indeterminate time in the future when the Brownshirts
              weren't so busy. So even if she faked it, its just as
              good as if she had actually been attacked by the Bush
2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:44773 Activity:moderate
        Wisconsin University instructor likens Bush to Hitler.  "Hitler had
        a good 20 to 30 IQ points on Bush, so comparing Bush to Hitler would
        in many ways be an insult to Hitler."
        In many ways I'm disappointed that Berkeley professors and
        instructors today aren't more vocal about this. We went from
        outspoken protestors in the 60-70s to mute nerdy engineers in
        the past few decades. Pathetic.
        \_ and john yoo.  ub3r.
        \_ Uh yeah except running around mouthing 2nd grade level "you are a
           dumb poppyhead!" level insults and wild comparisons to a man who
           started a world war and is responsible for the intentional murder
           of millions of people is not only unhelpful but makes anything else
           they say easily dismissible.
           \_ As oppose to Bush's unintentional killing of half a million
        \_ I wonder if he has ever heard of Goodwin's law?
           \_ Godwin
              \_ WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
              \_ If you can't tell the difference between millions of people
                 being sent to gas chambers and overs because bullets weren't
                 efficient enough and post-invasion anarchy due to poor
                 planning, there's nothing to talk about.
                 \_ At least Hitler did not profit from the war.
                    \_ You're wrong of course but nevermind.  I'm sure he
                       paid for everything he owned with his salary as an
                       elected official.  The motd can be so nutty, I love it.
        \_ I wonder if he has ever heard of Godwin's law?
        \_ The Bush Brownshits will either physically attack or at the
           very least run this man out of a job. They have been very vocal
           (and violent) in their offensive against anyone who dared to
           speak out against The Regime too openly. Perhaps it is different
           today, but it was actually dangerous to say things like this
           a few years ago.
           \_ It was actually dangerous?  Which country did you live in a few
              years ago?
           \_ When was America's "Night of Broken Glass"?  Can you provide
              some URLs for this violence you claim?
              \_ Here in the Bay Area someone was beaten:
                 It was actually much worse in more Conservative parts of
                 the country. I personally received death threats for
                 some of my blog postings.
                 \_ Sorry, but that incident was exposed as a hoax a long time
                    \_ Proof?
        \_ This is NOT from  How does our genius-in-chief manage
           to go to Yale and Harvard without at least picking up a word or
           THE PRESIDENT: Well, they may not use cut and run, but they say
           date certain is when to get out, before the job is done. That is
           cut and run. Nobody has accused me of having a real sophisticated
           vocabulary, I understand that.
           \_ That says more about Harvard and Yale than it does about Bush.
2006/9/19-21 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:44440 Activity:moderate
9/19    emarkp, running wall through a filter so you don't have to read
        swear words is pretty insane, but please don't start filtering
        stuff I read too.  That really bugs me.  I know motd is offensive
        sometimes, but there's that pesky 1st amendment.  Go live in
        the fucking nazi germany that the other right wingers are trying to put
        us in and leave motd alone.    -brain
        \_ I think you need to read the definition of insane.  My "censoring"
           is deleting anonymous trolls addressed to me.  I have as much right
           to delete it as trolls have to post it.  Or is no one allowed to
           delete posts on motd? -emarkp (thanks for signing your name at least)
        \_ Thanks brain for standing up to this religious bully.  Most of
           us are too scared to stand up to him let alone sign our names.
           I mean, what if he passes my name to the Mormons who keep on
           I mean, what if he passes my name to the fucking Mormons who keep on
           knocking on my door? Scary. Anyways thanks brain.
        \_ You're being a mean b!
        \_ automunging of the motd is verboten.  don't do it.
        \_ automunging of the fucking motd is verboten.  don't do it.
        \_ Whoever restored this from a few days ago--why didn't you restore my
           reply? -emarkp
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