Reference History WW2 Germany - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/01/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2006/9/11-14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:44350 Activity:moderate
9/11    This happened during WW2 on September 12th.  It illusrated what kind
        of justice American unleash upon otherwise professional German
        \_ Cool!  Chicom Troll is back, I was getting worried.  -John
        \_ I remember watching something on the History Channel about some WWII
           German ships trying to attack a British ship which was rescuing
           German sailors from a German boat it had sunk earlier, forcing the
           British ship to stop the rescue operation, abandon the remaining
           Germans still in water, and fled the scene.  These things are just
           facts of warfare.  After the war was over, the British sailors and
           the rescued German sailors on that ship had regular reunions
           together in memory of the event.
           My impression from TV and movies are that the western militaries
           My impression from TV and movies is that the western militaries
           of both the Axis and the Allies were highly professiona.  (The
           Japanese were probably not.  Didn't know about the other Asian
           ones.)  I was most touched by a scene in the last episode of the
           ones.)  I was most touched by a scene in the last episode of
           Band of Brothers, which, after Germany surrendered, the German
           officer drew his career-long side arm and offered to the American
           officer drew his career-long sidearm and offered to the American
           officer as a sovenior, saying "it's better than letting it sit on
           some clark's desk collecting dust".  In response the American offer
           got up from his chair-rocking lay-back posture to standing-up in
           full-alert, saying "you can keep you side arm, officer."  Then they
           full-alert, saying "you can keep you sidearm, officer."  Then they
           \_ The Japanese army was highly professional, but adhered to
              different "rules" of war, like Germans in Russia.  In any case,
              there are several examples of alleged Allied war crimes (check
              wikipedia for a fun shitfight on the topic), many of which
              weren't prosecuted because they sort of went under in the
              general confusion, or it was felt the end justified the means.
              The Laconia incident, while real, is a hilarious example of
              ChiCom troll's ninja troll-fu, though, in the context of "ha ha
              you puny American, you think you so good, well you do xyz <dig
              up random unconnected irrelevant obscure badness>."  -John
              \_ japanphile. you are not alone.
                 \_ If I don't think someone's a monster, I'm a
                    someonephile? Your logic is broke.
2006/7/17-19 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:43684 Activity:nil
7/17    Dutch to allow pedophile political party
        \_ Hmm, what's The Netherland's immigration policy for Americans?
           \_ ew.
        \_ So what?  Democracy isn't something you should be afraid of.
           \_ Having a pedophile party isn't democracy.  It is the
              institutionalizing of criminally aberrant behavior.
              \_ Only if anyone votes for them...  As soon as you say "some laws
                 shouldn't be democratically decided, ever" then you have to
                 have someone who _doesn't_ represent the people create them,
                 and that's trouble.  Of course pedophilia is abhorrent, this
                 isn't institutionalizing anything.  The US has a pot party,
                 that hasn't made pot legal.
                 \_ The US has a pot party.  The US also is leaning towards
                    making pot legal and has done so locally in many places.
                    Without a group pushing for the decriminalisation of
                    criminal acts, they will remain criminal.  With a group
                    pushing for legalising the acts, they will eventually
                    shift policy in that direction through back room bargaining
                    and vote swapping.  The only hope is that they never manage
                    to elect anyone.  Although if they do that alone says
                    the host country that they may be beyond hope anyway.
                 \_ Can the same argument be applied to communism?  A communist
                    party is illegal in the US.
                    \_ *sigh*
                       \_ Thanks!  (Not that I like communism.)  -- PP
                          "Aren't socialist countries anti-religion?"
                          "In China, ..., there are many religious
                          institutions, many millions who worship freely, many
                          churches that are growing. ..."
                          That says it all.  (But it's off topic.)
                    \_ Really?  I thought there was one.  Well, if that's true,
                       it probably happened during the 50's, the same time we
                       put God into the pledge, and did any number of other
                       stupid reactionary things.
                    \_ Uhh, no it isn't.
                    \_ IIRC, the United States is now one of the few countries
                       that still has a communist party.  We might be the only
                       multi-party country that has one.  I vaguely recall
                       something about all of them renaming themselves the
                       socialist party after the USSR fell but I'm too lazy
                       and apathetic to look it up.
                       \_ Japan still has a communist party. One of the Diet
                          reps from Kochi (the prefecture where I lived) was
                          Communist. --erikred
                       \_ PCI in Italy? Partito Comunista Italiano. Still
                          pretty big there.
                          \_ Ok so 3 of em.  I'm ok with that.
                             \_ Plus all the actual, well, communist countries,
                                plus France, England, Germany, India, and
                                pretty much every other countri I can
                                pretty much every other country I can
                                think of.  -John
                                \_ The communist countries aren't multi-party.
                                   I don't count Cuba, China, etc, which claim
                                   to be communist but are just dictatorships.
2022/01/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2006/6/15-16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:43408 Activity:kinda low
        The Germans had nightvision in WW2. HEIL!
        \_ as did the US thanks to RCA/Zworkyin
        \_ as did the US thanks to RCA/Zworykin
        \_ Versions of the Vampir were also mounted on Panther tanks and
           halftracks.  -John
2006/6/14-15 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:43381 Activity:nil
        Henry Ford was a Nazi, and the Ford Corporation loved money more
        than principle. Boycott Ford!
        \_ So let's stop buying anything from IBM, any Germany company, Ford,
           and hey anyone who knows anyone who might be German.
        \_ i hate to say this, but Nazi is not necessarily mean absolute evil.
           During the Nanjing massacare, the guy who saved most of lives were
           member of SA party while rest of British/American personnel didn't
           do squat.
           \_ Yo, chicom troll!  Buddy!  Great to see you back!
           \_ How many dudes got 'saved'?  20?  50?  please give url
              ok tnx
           \_ God damnit, America is evil! Boycott all American made vehicles
              to make their industry suffer!
        \_ Carls Jr founder donated to teh KKK. So what?
2006/6/11-13 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:43350 Activity:nil
6/11    Japanese panzer fans, jawohl!  Weirdos.  -John
        \_ HEIL JAPANESE JO...oh wait.
        \_ Offensive on many many different levels.  Thanks John!
2006/6/9-11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43339 Activity:nil
        How to kill a women with a German sausage
2006/6/8-10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43329 Activity:nil
6/8     Heil German John!
        \_ Heh, thanks for the joint effort. However, last month I found out
           he's not a real German so I stopped posting German links.
           Thanks for the continued efforts anyways.    -the other GJ guy
        \_ *snif* I'm moved.  And other GJ guy, can't you come up with
           something?  I miss you.  ChiCom troll's disciples have been sort
           of sub-par recently.  -John
           \_ Sorry for your dwindling fan club membership but as a former
              member, I quit. I was very disappointed that you're not a real
              German. You see, I only troll Ayrans, people who have true
              Germanic blood. You're impure and not worth trolling for.
              I guess if the Swiss were funny I'd continue my trolls
              except they're not. They're notoriously boring and very
              difficult to make fun of. Good luck with your fake-German
              fan club.                 -the other GJ guy
              \_ I'm pretty aryan, please love me.  -John
2006/5/22-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:43152 Activity:nil
5/22    Yet another wave of mental midgetry washes over the CSUA.  Bright
        young undergrads who wanted the motd web-indexed:  this is one of
        the main reasons why people were arguing against it.  -John
        \_ Please stop trolling us and just tell us whether you sympathize
           with the Nazis or not. I don't know enough Swiss to say
           whether a big proportion of them are Nazi sympathizers or not,
           but I know first hand that many Austrians are. If you give a
           straightforward yes (I'm a Nazi sympathizer) or no (I'm not
           a Nazi sympathizer), I promise to leave you alone. Deal?
           \_ Jesus H Christ, get some medication, son.  You've been obsessing
              about this junk nonstop for waaaay too long.  It's not only
              stupid, it's boring.              -mice
           \_ You're a pathetic moron.  John doesn't have to say anything
              for you, anonymous coward.  If you're going to name other
              people, post your own name, you fetid pile of refuse.

           \_ Um, you know that Solomon is a *fucking*Jewish*name* right?
           \_ Um, you know that Salomon is a *fucking*Jewish*name* right?
              You do know that John is Jewish right? I don't have to explain
              this to you, do I?
        \_ ...stormfront and white-history. Good grief, Charlie Brown, who
           gave the nutcases motd accounts?
        \_ FYI, the current undergrads had nothing to do with motd indexing.
           I only wrote the wallall RSS script. And that has been hidden from
           Google. It was some predecessor who did the web MOTD. If you'd like,
           in the near future I can look into hiding it too. In other words,
           quitcherbitchin. ;) --michener
           \_ kchang put some effort into getting rid of the
              identifiers to protect the guilty.  maybe you can too.

----------stupidity below this line----------
2006/5/22-28 [Reference/History/WW2, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:43144 Activity:nil
        Potatoes may contain pieces of German ordnances from WW1 and WW2.
        \_ obPotatoMasher:
2006/5/16-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43068 Activity:nil
        Heil German people. I don't heil John anymore because he's not German
2006/3/5-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:42102 Activity:kinda low
3/5     German John, do you have a picture of you wearing a lederhosen?
        \_ hi kchang!
           \_ omgwtfbbq?!?!   -kchang
        \_ "He was young, he needed the money"
        \_ Sorry, I may be a bit slow here, but I don't get it.  Where is the
           fascination coming from?  Aside from the fact that I'm not German
           and I'm not a nazi (as the Heil Cherman John Guys imply), I don't
           fascination coming from?  Aside from the fact that I'm neither
           German, nor a nazi as the Heil Cherman John Guys imply, I don't
           understand the point of these posts.  They aren't witty, creative,
           funny or even offensive.  Rather, they come across as sort of sad
           and pathetic.  I'm not asking you to stop, as it's really a non-
           issue to me, I'm just sort of curious as to why you bother.  Can
           one of the HCJG explain for the benefit of all of us?  -John
           issue to me, I'm just sort of curious as to why you bother.  Could
           one of the HCJGs explain for the benefit of all of us?  -John
           \_ When I was in junior high school we had a kid in the class whose
              name was Stanley.  For some reason the collective consciousness
              off the class had decided that "Stanley" was a hilarious name.
              of the class had decided that "Stanley" was a hilarious name.
              So whenever his name got called out the whole class would start
              yelling "Stanley stanley stanley" while Stanley would sit and
              have a "WTF?" look on his face.  It's totally stupid and
              pointless and people don't have anything better to do.
              pointless and people don't have anything better to do, at least
              if they have a junior high school level of mentality.
           \_ It's all about getting a rise out of ya. -!op
2006/2/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41951 Activity:nil
        Description of the URL is self explanitory (Germany Drugs).
2006/2/15 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41868 Activity:low
        Heil German John's younger brother!
        \_ Are we sure he didn't let a chick tie him up in anticipation of S&M,
           and then the chick changed her mind and left?
2006/2/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:41751 Activity:kinda low
2/7     Is IKEA from Sweden or Switzerland? I always get those two confused.
        \_ Here is an easy way to remember this. Switzerland has a lot of
           other people's money but don't really do much with them. For example
           they kept a lot of Jew and Nazi money but didn't do jack with
           them. The only cool things from Switzerland that are easily
           recognizable in the US are the Swiss Army Knife and
           the overpriced Swiss Watch. At any rate, both countries are
           full of nationalistic white Scandi-Eurotrashes who think they're
           better than everyone else and in that respect John is right.
           \_ There is also Swiss chocolate in the US.
           \_ Don't forget the better roads.  We like dogs too.  And you're
              correct, we are better than everyone else.  -John
              \_ In what ways are you better?
                 \_ Much more skilful at stealing the gold.  -John
        \_ Mr. IKEA IS A NAZI.
           He attended some pro-Nazi meetings and apologized only after
           his past was discovered. Reality-- he's not sorry, he's just
           saying that to placate IKEA stockholders.
        \_ When I was little, I thought they were the same thing. I thought
           they were all weird blonde people with funny American accents.
           Now I'm older, I still think they're weird blonde people
           with funny accents, and still unable to find differences.
        \_ Sweden.  Ingvar Kamprad Elmtaryd Agunnaryd.
           \_ Duh!
        \_ Same thing.  -John
        \_ Tóstarmyndband aldarinnar
           \_ This has got to be one of the most disturbing music videos
              I have ever seen in my life. The retro gay images keep
              replaying in my mind and I can't sleep. Is this weirdo
              retro gay style common in in Iceland? Or is it in fact
              a gay music video shot in the 60s?
              \_ I thought most videos were in that style back in those days,
                 when I was a kid.
           \_ What does this Iceland video have to do with IKEA or Switzerland
              or Sweden?
        \_ hint:  colors of the flag
        \_ Swiss is where all the Nazi and Japanese stolen from raping
           their nearby Asian brethren gold that they didn't have enough
           time to hide in the Phillipines and they didn't guard very
           well because they were too busy getting NUKED by Truman
           so Marcos discovered some and that Korean freak Sun Moon
           found the other billion or so in gold bullion, is stored,
           Sweden is where they make Volvos and the girls (and boys)
           enjoy running around naked when weather permits.
           \_ Does your nose bleed when you spaz like this?
        \_ IKEA carries Swedish meatballs.
2006/1/24-25 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:41503 Activity:low
1/24    Slideshow comparing Nazi political cartoons
        vs. conservative Cox & Forkum political cartoons
        \_ Got tired of waiting for the comic to load.
        \_ Gee, 2 cartoonists, both from western cultural heritage,
           occasionaly use similar imagery!  Say it ain't so!  Hey, Hitler
           went on vacations, and Bush went on vacation!  Bush = Hitler!1!1
2006/1/13-17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:41369 Activity:moderate
1/12    Funny, I always gave Pamela Anderson more credit than this, but
        apparently she IS as stupid as she seems.  I guess anyone who would
        sleep with Tommy Lee is suspect...
        \_ The question is why you ever gave her any credit at all.
        \_ "FRANKFORT, Ky. - Pamela Anderson is leading a charge to remove a
           bust ......"
           Oh no!!!
           \_ You'll always have the internet.
        \_ She likes swallowing huge pieces of meat, but only if attached to
           Tommy Lee.
           \_ ITYM Kid Rock.
                \_ I have no proof that Kid Rock is huge.  I do have proof
                   Tommy Lee is huge.
                   \_ How many inches?
                   \_ The camera, um, adds inches.
                   \_ So does your mom.  Now explain to me how having a pet
                      cause (no pun..sorry) makes you stupid?  -John
                      \_ Are you kidding?  You've got to be an idiot to support
                         \_ PETA are slugs--they've ruined the business of
                            some of my family's friends.  That said, if any
                            of what they're claiming is even halfway true,
                            it's wrong.  Hitler liked dogs, I like dogs, does
                            that make me a nazi?  (Go Godwin!)  -John
                            \_ Ja Nazi. Heil German John! HEIL!!!
                               \_ No free speech for fascists.  -John
2006/1/6-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:41276 Activity:low
        Walmart halts Triumph of the Will DVD movie suggestion that was
        linked to Bush Family Fortunes DVD
        \_ what? english please??
           \_ Triump of Will was a Nazi propaganda movie made before ww2.
              \_ That was the only obvious part of this post.  What does the
                 rest mean?
                 \_ yes, and why a link to
2006/1/4-6 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:41217 Activity:low
12/4    12 US minors trapped, 12 German skaters died, dozens of
        Indonesians died in landslide. Apocalypse? Rapture?
        \_ 12 days of Christmas
        \_ I know you're just being snarky, but this is just the same old
           "if it bleeds, it leads" shitty journalism the media has
           produced since forever.  Anything good happening appears as a
           light and fluffy human interest story in the home & garden
           section's 3rd page.
           \_ Actually the big story on the front page of the Merc was
              about how 12 miners were found alive!  Whoops.  But see
              the feel good story was TOP OF THE NEWS.
        \_ minors?
        \_ Rapture? It wasn't the rapture when hundreds of thousands died
           in the tsunami.  It wasn't the rapture when tens of millions
           died in WW2.  Maybe you could call the greenhouse baking of
           the earth in 50-100 years time "rapture" but that's man made ...
           Why don't you just call it what it is: a desperate hope of fairy
           tales being proven "true" any way possible.
           tales being proven "true" with the loosest test of "truth"
           \_ Rapture is when yermom finds a banana.
           \_ The religious nutjobs weren't in charge yet back then.
              Oh wait, I guess they were during the tsunami.  -John
2005/12/29-2006/1/4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:41164 Activity:nil
12/28   Former Iraq Hostage Makes Bizzare TV Appearance
        If nothing else, the picture is worth checking out,1518,392690,00.html
2005/12/21-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41110 Activity:nil
        Paranoid German woman who won the lottery didn't want to
        claim the prize. German women rule.
        \_ Rule?  What is so great about having experienced such shit that
           when something good happens she thinks its a scam?
2005/12/15-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:41034 Activity:kinda low
        Hitler salute greets concentration camp visitors.
        Sorry I can't help it -- Heil John!
        \_ Huh?  Anyway, it might amuse you that I'm moving to Chile, and our
           landlord is called "Juan Oehninger".  -John
           \_ that's funny.  are you moving to Colonia Dignidad
              I mean Villa Baviera? - danh
                \_ Nein, but I do tell people I'm going to hunt nazis.  For
                   some reason, most of the management types I deal with do
                   not see much difference between IT security and "other"
                   security consulting... -John
              American woman gives birth to 17th child. -- Go American John!
              \_ What's with you John fetishists? You guys are retards.
                 \_ I attract weirdos, it's a skill.  -John
                    \_ In real life also?
                        \_ Yes.  I don't quite manage the same dysfunctional
                           demographics in my varied fan groups as danh. -John
                    \_ You, ilyas and emarkp seem to attract quite an
                       interesting following.                  -mice
        \_ "The incident took place in Brandenburg, a state in the former
           communist East, where far right parties get a much larger share of
           the votes than they do in the West."  Interesting.
2005/12/9-11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:40939 Activity:nil 100%like:40937
12/9    nazi werewolves
        \_ LOL. I've been waiting 2 years for someone to bring that up.
           Cf. the Lars von Trier film "Zentropa" (aka Europa). Now stop
           bothering to come up with analogies between these guys and the
           current Iraqi issue.
           \_ Huh?  -John
2005/12/9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:40937 Activity:nil 100%like:40939
12/9    nazi werewolves
2005/12/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40909 Activity:nil
        Call of nature saves German man. HEIL GERMAN MAN!
2005/12/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40904 Activity:low
        German shoplifter had a brush with the law.
        \_ Just goes to show you never can tell where your toothpaste has been.
           \_ He mistook those toothpaste for KY Jelly tubes.
        \_ "store detectives ...... forced him to hand over his booty." :-)
        \_ He nearly escaped by the skin of his teeth.
        \_ It says he's an Uzbek. Damn immigrants.
2005/12/5-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:40869 Activity:nil
12/5    Squish kchang now.
        \_ Fuck you.
           \_ no fuck YOU.
              \_ I see. The names do have a sort of logic to them. So, if,
                 jrleek is "moron", what will emarkp turn out to be?
        \_ uh, what did I do now? -kchang
           \_ Hi-tech namecalling
           \_ theoretically someone could get into trouble with something like:
              "Hey, your employee John Q. Loser posted about your company with
              the name 'hitler', see this link!  He will probably say something
              like yes he wrote that, but he never signed as 'hitler' and meant
              to post anonymously."
        \_ I've been playing around with it.  It doesn't seem any better
           than random chance, choosing among all non-idle people.  The names
           are cute, but I think hitler and other names should go.
        \_ It doesn't seem to change names.  This means the system has the
           same problems as before, it just adds a level of indirection.
           It won't take long for people to figure out who each other are.
           (For example, now you know my pseudonym) I think a good
           improvement would be to have the names change for every thread.
           Anyway, it's nice to have the diff back. -jrleek
           \_ I suggested he re-associate names every week but yeah.  I think
              this is a good change and am happy he decided to still log
              and host motd posts. -mrauser
           \_ What might be a genuinely interesting problem would be to set it
              up so it ignores what user was editing the motd when a given
              post was generated, and made names based solely on trying to
              analyze the content of the post.
        \_ Just to be fair to everyone, kchang decided to label everyone
           a derogatory name.
           \_ Not true.
           \_ No. To be fair, kchang has decided to rotate derogatory names
              every week so that everyone will have an opportunity to become
              any of the super villains. Thank you for playing the motd.
2005/12/3-6 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Computer/Companies/Google] UID:40833 Activity:high
12/2    Wow.  That's pretty sad:
        \_ uh, what's sad about it?  -tom
           \_ Oh, just that the number of offensive results returned by "Jew"
              is so high that they felt compelled to write that.  Sad.
              I thought.
              \_ Why is this surprising?  Look at motd.
        \_ Google: Cataloging the world's filth.
           \_ At least they're consistent about the "let's make all
              information easily available" no matter if it's libelous,
              owned by someone else or just the sort of thing no one
              should need to see, as long as they make a buck on it.
                \_ How is google making a buck on this?
                \_ (a) "libelous" differs from jurisdiction to jurisdiction,
                   and I thought it was a given that national restrictions
                   on who links to what online are silly, (b) "make a buck
                   on it" is not a bad thing, but for some reason it has a
                   negative connotation--not making a buck == no google, (c)
                   who judges what "no one should need to see"?  -John
                   \_ a) in the dictionary sense, b) making a buck spreading
                      lies is, c) germany has banned nazi stuff, are you
                      opposed to that?  unrelated is google's answer to a
                      faq on image and link hosting for people who want an
                      image pulled down: they duck the issue of removing it
                      from their index and punt it to the user to go ask
                      the webmaster to remove it when in many cases the
                      webmaster has posted something maliciously or just
                      doesn't care what their users post and isn't subject
                      to the reach of the law.  double talk is just sleazy.
                      as far as google existing or not, i dont really care.
                      there were search engines before, there will be search
                      engines after.  they're just one search engine of many
                      that all return roughly the same quality of results.
                      \_ I am ambivalent about Germany's nazi ban, as it's a
                         bit of a special case.  Nonetheless, Germany has no
                         control over content hosted abroad, nor do they make
                         any pretense at doing so (unlike France/Yahoo, which
                         was a pretty sad precedent.)  I don't think it's dis-
                         ingenuous for a search engine to refer objections
                         about content to the originating site--after all,
                         nobody is forcing anyone to look at something they
                         don't like--you may find it lame but I see it as
                         pretty central to the availability of information,
                         reprehensible though it may be, on the Internet.  In
                         their position I wouldn't even have posted the
                         disclaimer, although I can understand why they saw
                         it as a prudent thing to do.  -John
                         \_ Which means someone has zero recourse if google
                            is unwilling to provide a means to people to have
                            potentially damaging and false information
                            removed.  Below someone claims they remove links
                            to kiddie porn.  I'm firmly in favor of that but
                            why draw the line there?  I don't see why Germany's
                            ban on Nazi stuff is ok as a 'special case'.  As if
                            by out lawing references to the Nazis they will
                            magically make the past go away.  France/Yahoo is
                            pretty much the same.  Anyway, once you draw a line
                            there's no difference where yo draw it.  You don't
                            get to claim you're a big pro-information freedom
                            person when you've made an arbitrary decision that
                            there really is some information that shouldn't be
                            seen.  (sarcasm for the stupid): Why don't the
                            parents just complain to the kiddie porn web
                            masters and ask that their kids be removed from
                            the net?
                            \_ Yes, you do have zero recourse.  I'm unwilling
                               to risk someone seeing my (harmless) views as
                               somehow politically, religiously or culturally
                               offensive and have a means to censor them.  I
                               think we're fundamentally in agreement here--I
                               stated that I wouldn't have written the Google
                               disclaimer, just that I understand where they're
                               coming from.  As for Germany, they have a bit
                               of peculiar historical background that gives
                               them a slightly different take on the topic of
                               nazism, even though they sometimes do not handle
                               it consistently, that is all.  Relax.  -John
                               \_ You're ducking.  Google will remove some
                                  links from the index based on some unknown
                                  and arbitrary criteria but will not remove
                                  others and worse, pretends they can't.  If
                                  google was consistent and didn't pretend
                                  they have no control over their indexes
                                  instead of waving the "its magic! look!
                                  a shiny penny!" flag around they'd come
                                  across as honest instead of deceptive and
                                  shitty with a touch of holier-than-thou.
              \_ Actually I'm pretty sure they have people looking for
                 things like child porn and taking them out of the indexes.
                        \_ Well they do, and they admit it.
2005/11/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40688 Activity:nil
        A German man drank too much, wet his bed and set fire to his
        apartment while trying to dry his bedding. Sieg Heil german john!
2005/10/25-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40254 Activity:nil
        German robber calls his mom and got caught. HEIL GERMANS!
        \_ Wouldn't you think a bank would take some precautions to
           encase/secure the transport vault for 7.2 million euros to
           make it difficult for one man to rob it?
           \_ Yeah, by hiring the security guard.
           \_ Banks often send regular employees to fetch cash when
              customers want large withdrawals. I don't know about $7.2
              million, but definitely hundreds of thousands.
              \_ "Hey Boss, sorry, I got really sick after that pickup and
                 had to go home.  I was dizzy and the doc gave me some stuff,
                 I'm really not sure what happened to the $7.2m".  :-)
              \_ There was a ca. $25m robbery in Zurich a few years ago--some
                 guys rammed a car into a courtyard where a post office cash
                 transport was being unloaded, brandished SMGs and got most
                 of the stash (they were all caught.)  VW had an ad for
                 its mid-size transport trucks a bit after, with the caption
                 "they could have taken it all along..."  -John
2005/10/23-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:40234 Activity:nil
10/23   Meet the American Nazi version of the Olsen Twins, "Prussian Blue"
        \_ check out hot underage nazis:
  - danh
           \_ This is the best of the MP3s I've found. They are sort-of like
              The Shaggs of hatemonger folk.
2005/9/20-22 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:39771 Activity:low
9/20    Hypothetical question. Let's say it is year 1930 again and you are
        Adolf Hitler II. You have a dream to dominate Europe and more in
        a mere decade or two. What would you have done that's the same
        as before, and more importantly what would you have done
        differently, be it politically, militarily, economically? Please
        don't delete this thread, I'm curious what motd historian buffs
        have to say.
                         \- "I have a dream ..."
                                \_ Stop interrupting you Bengali shit
        \_ not try to invade Russia until the rest of Europe was polished off
           \_ How about "don't invade Russia, period." Winter is so cold
              there that motoroil actually freezes, rendering your highly
              mechaniszed units useless.
           \_ Yeah... Hitler underestimated the size of the Soviet army. I
              wonder if he thought he would avoid war with the US. Or maybe
              he hoped to crush the Soviets really quickly. Anyway once that
              failed and US was involved it was over. In retrospect they needed
              to knock out Britain. But they screwed up the air war there.
              Knowing what we know now, different tactics might have allowed
              them to take out either Britain or USSR quickly. In the first
              place I think Hitler hoped to get Poland without the British
              war, which would have let him focus only on the east. And when
              Barbarossa began the "fortress Europe" had been established,
              USA wasn't at war, so Hitler probably felt safe with that.
        \_ Don't trust the Italians, they're utterly incompetent.
        \_ Forget about heavy water.  Listen to the jews and go uranium
           instead.  And don't piss them off by putting them in concentration
           camps until after they've invented the A-bomb.
           \_ HAHA my thoughts exactly. Rule #1 in business-- never treat
              people badly until they give you want you want. The Jews are
              smart. Treat them well at first, concentration camp later.
                \_ Are you sure this would have worked for Hitler?  Part of
                   Hitler's route to power was by scapegoating the Jews.
                   Face it, persecuting and blaming a minority for all your
                   problems is an effective way of getting power.  --PM
                   \_ I see.  Was there another minority he could use as
                      scapegoat at that moment?
                      \_ He could have used the Poles. I mean, there are so
                         many Polish jokes to tell and they don't seem to mind
                         \_ He wouldn't have needed the whole anti-semitic
                            shpiel.  The krauts were falling apart at the
                            seams politically and screaming for stability and
                            strong leadership, and still bitter enough about
                            being stomped on militarily during and diplo-
                            matically after WWI that the nazis were a shoo-in
                            to run the joint.  Remember that WWII only came
                            along after a pretty spectacular, virtually un-
                            opposed run of aggression in the name of anti-
                            communism and reuniting all Germans into one big
                            happy fatherland.  -John
                            happy vatherland.  -John
                            \_ Apparently you flunked history. The Nazis
                               were not "shoo-ins" to run the joint. They
                               got into power with less than the majority
                               vote. It was because Hindenburg was weak
                               and the opposition was fragmented that lead
                               to Hitler's appointment to be Chancellor in
                               an attempt to create a coalition government.
                            \_ That, and also the effects of the Great
                               Depression which affected Germany as much,
                               if not worse, than the US.
        \_ Rape and plunder doesn't work well for long periods. Treat the
           stinking Frenchmen and poor Poles nicer. Give them a sense that
           they belong to something of great importance instead of just
           beating the shit out of them. After they assimilated and
           contributed, THEN beat the shit out of them. Oh and don't
           screw around with French women, most of them have STDs and
           will incapacitate your Waffen-SS Wehrmacht.
           \_ Or join it... -John
        \_ ULTRA is compromised.
           \_ More to the point, if everything goes according to your
              expectations, it means they're feeding you bad intel; it does
              NOT mean you're a genius.
              \_ You misunderstand ULTRA. If the other side knows every major
                 move you're making, it is harder for you to win.
                 \_ On the contrary, I understand ULTRA very well. However,
                    in order to keep Hitler from knowing that ULTRA was
                    compromised, the Allies waged a campaign of misinformation
                    that relied primarily on Hitler wanting to believe that
                    his predictions of enemy movement would be accurate. Cf.
                    Bodyguard of Lies by Anthony Cave Brown.
                    \_ So communicating factually through a compromised system
                       would be okay even if Hitler knew it was compromised
                       and his predictions came true. That's even more occult
                       belief than I want to deal with.
                       \_ Sigh. Call me old-fashioned, but I'm trying to keep
                          this within the realm of the knowledge that he might
                          have gained under the circumstances. If he realized
                          that things were running too impossibly close to his
                          expectations, he might have realized that he was
                          being played. He might also have been able to seed
                          ULTRA with false intel while speeding up R&D of
                          Enigma. Thank god he was a paranoid, megalomaniacal
        \_ Donate to Charles Lindberg's Presidential campaign and convince
           the Japs to hold off on Pearl Harbor until all the Carriers were
           back in port. I would have won the battle of Britain prior to
           opening the Russian front and then I would have got the Japs to
           help me take out Russia. Then I would send the Kreigsmarine to
           take out the US from the east coast while the Japs took out the
           US from the west coast.
2005/9/20-21 [Health, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:39762 Activity:low
9/20    Simon Wiesenthal, RIP  -John
        \_ If you haven't read "Eichmann In Jerusalem" by Arendt, now is as
           good a time as any
        \_ So whatever happened to Gestapo chief Heinrich Muller and
           \_ They're living in my basement, trolling the motd.
           Auschwitz doctor Josef Mengele?
           \_ They're living in my basement, trolling the motd.
        \_ it's funny that many has strong feeling toward what Nazi has
           done to Jews, yet worship those in the Yasukuni Shrine.
2005/9/8-10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39579 Activity:nil
9/8     A not so bright German thief got arrested. What is it about Germans?
2005/9/1-2 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:39396 Activity:nil
9/1     Where did Germany get oil from during WWII?
        \_ A lot came from northern shore, Scandanavia. They also produced
           oil from coal and gas through fancy (but costly) methods.
           \_ Oil was Germany's weak spot in the war.  Hitler's obsession with
              autarky is a partial explanation for the insane expansionism
              of Nazi Germany.  The change of thrust towards the Caucasus
              after the takeover of Moscow failed was motivated by oil.
                -- ilyas
        \_ Romania (Ploesti) had massive refineries and oil fields.  I
           wouldn't put as much emphasis on German striving for self-
           sufficiency as, say, Japan (where oil and metal were actually
           major factors in their going to war with the US)  -John
           \_ err... US was supplying oil and scrap metals to fuel its
                invasion of China prior to Pearl Harbor...
2005/8/28-29 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:39319 Activity:kinda low
8/28    You know why SS Wehrmacht uniforms look really cool? Because
        Hugo Boss himself designed them. Another trivial Nazi fact
        of the week, brought to you by Heil Cherman guy.        -heil
        \_ Fuck you, you piece of shit.  I sentence you to whatever the
           nastiest goat ass link German John can come up with. John?
           \_ Erm, I thought danh was the purveyor of fine smut?  Anyway,
              he has a point (but wtf is "SS Wehrmacht"?) which doesn't change
              the fact that the guys with the snazzy uniforms always lose.
              Think WWII, Cold War, Star Wars, GI Joe... -John
              \_ But the Romans rule.
              \_ Putting the fashion back into fascism.... Remember, kids,
                 if your ideology is shallow and unappealing, spice it up
                 with clever marketing and pizzazz, and the punters will
                 line up for you.
                 \_ That, or invading Poland always works.  If you play any
                    online games, you'll see how many of the kids always join
                    the winning team.
2005/8/16-17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39134 Activity:moderate
8/15    Meet the new German NPD, same as the old German NSDAP:
        \_ Somebody cracked one of their servers and found records detailing
           donations from illegal neo-nazi groups (the NPD is a "legitimate"
           party) and anonymously forwarded it to the German cops, who don't
           have the same restrictions on acquisition of evidence... -John
           \_ hmm.  Does that qualify as "white hat" or "black hat" hacking?
              \_ Good question.  The guys who did it told me they felt pretty
                 white hat.  Makes you think, though.  -John
2005/8/1-4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:38920 Activity:nil
8/1     Why Germans stink, literally:
           \_ it's a glorious day for the gay community.
           \_ Looks like a Nazi Penis. Big, white, and stinks.
        \_ Heh.
           \_ it's a glorious day for the gay community.
           \_ Looks like a Nazi Penis. Big, white, and stinks.
2005/7/25-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:38804 Activity:nil
7/25    Does anyone know how to add personalized Audibles in
        Yahoo Messenger? I'd like their Hellos and Taunts audibles,
        but I'd like to add my own like "HEIL HITLER/BUSH" or
        something controversial and trollish for comic relief.
2005/7/23-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:38794 Activity:low
7/23    For ilyas: WWII as an MMORPG chat transcript.
        \_ Far be it from me to be an expert on 'what kids these days say,'
           but this is Counterstrike slang.  Thanks though. -- ilyas
           \_ what?
        \_ no, an RTS chat transcript
        \_ As that host seems to be down, you might be interested in WW2
           online, and "Forgotten Hope", an excellent BF1942 mod.  Many of the
           kiddies in the forums seem to be reasonably knowledgeable.  -John
        \_ They got some order of things wrong (Barbarossa was before Pearl
           Harbor, for example) but it is still pretty funny.
        \_ ROTFLMAO!!! LOLZ!
2005/7/20-21 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:38723 Activity:moderate
7/20    James Doohan, RIP.  Insert obligatory Scotty jokes here.
        \_ He's been beamed up?
        \_ Guess there were some miracles he couldn't work.  (laddie)
        \_ If life was a TNG episode, they'd just manipulate a previously
           unknown effect of dilithium crystals, the transporter, and a
           newly discovered time travel effect in order to bring him back to
        \_ Damn, the guy was machine gunned down trying to take Juno beach
           during D-Day. I guess Scotty was pretty tough after all.
                \_ The shot that went for his chest was blocked by his
                   cigarette case ... So smoking CAN be healthy.
                   \_ Wearing body armor is even MORE healthy.
                        \_ What %tage of WWII soldiers had body armor?
                           \_ You are one piss-poor troll.
                   \_ Nah, but carrying a cigarette case can be.
                        \_ How many nonsmokers carry cigarette cases?
2005/7/16-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:38661 Activity:kinda low
7/16    Why must suicide bombers commit suicide? Don't they know that
        after they blow themselves up, they're gone cannot do any more
        harm? Don't they know for each suicide, there's one less
        bomber left to make a statement? I don't understand. If I were
        a pissed off occupyee, say a German or Japanese in WW2, I'd
        do all that I can to create havoc short of blowing myself up.
        \_ there's a norm macdonald show sketch where the suicide bomber
           employee is asking about health benefits
        \_ for
           a summary.
        \_ Because they're thug cunts and should have body parts mailed to
           their family wrapped in bacon.  -John
2005/7/14-15 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38610 Activity:nil
7/13    Dear German John, I'm learning German and it's a lot of fun. Grammar
        is very similar, and some words are similar. However, I have problem
        pronouncing certain words, like (how you spell in English)
        "IcHHHH SpriHHHHHen NicHHHHt English" probably cuz I don't normally
        use the throat often. In fact, I find that after only 20 mins of
        practicing, my throat gets really dry. Is this normal, or am I
        using my throat the wrong way? Danke Deutche John.
        \_ Drink a lot of hefeweizen and smoke some stinky eurofag cigarettes,
           the next morning you'll get that special born & bred in der
           teutonic vunderland hockaloogie sound.  -John
           \_ Are you serious this works? I tried it but my throat
              sound is still weak. I want to sound very throaty like those
              speakers on my language CD
              \_ You don't have to sound throaty. My german relatives never
                 had that deep throat thing. It varies by region too. They were
                 from Bavaria.
           \_ So is it better to use lots of throat or little throat? Just
              as I don't want to learn Ebonics English, I also don't want
              to learn German that sounds low-class. I do like the idea of
              using a lot of throat. It sounds aggressive, persuasive,
              somewhat charming, and really gets your attention. In
              another word I really like the way Hitler talks even though
              I disagree with his methods.
              \_ He was Austrian.  They've got more of a jolly rolling vowel
                 thing than an "ACHTUNG, ZE PANZERS ARE ROLLING" accent.  Same
                 with Bavarians, but they have sort of an edge to it--like they
                 can get the entire Hofbrauhaus to jump up and go invade
                 Poland.  Scotch & Sodas, Los!  -John
2005/6/26-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:38305 Activity:nil
6/26    Germany to bulldoze Checkpoint Charlie museum on 4th of July
           It seems like they want to tear down this monument, not the
           museum.  From this article, it sounds like they're already
           past the lease date, anyways.  I do agree that taking down the
           museum would be a big mistake, though.  It was one of the most
           personally touching places I saw in Berlin when I went there.
           \_ Speaking of the commercialism of memorials, I really liked how
              the path of the wall was marked with a double row of bricks.
              Understated, powerful. I hope, if CC is taken down, that it's
              transplanted somewhere. --scotsman
2005/6/24-25 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38293 Activity:moderate
6/23    John, how do you know so much about Germany? Were you a German
        Studies major? I'm impressed.                           -newbie
        \_ I live next to it.  I also probably spent time at Cal hanging
           out a lot with heil cherman john guy.  Where is he, by the way?
           A good troll farmer should always make sure his troll herd is
           in good health.  -John
           \_ Who is the heil cherman guy and what does he do? Is he a
              skinhead or a neonazi? Why the hell would anyone at Cal, the
              most liberal and antinazi university, do something as stupid
              as heiling nazis?
2005/6/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:38246 Activity:nil
6/22    Dear motd custodian, please wake up and do you job. Keep motd clean
        and neat. I've been doing your job for the past few days. Lazy ass.
        \_ Sorry, I've got this class presentation tonight so I haven't
           looked at the motd for a few days. I was hoping the 'liberal ==
           communist' and the 'bush == hitler' people would be censoring
           each other thus keeping the motd relatively clean.
2005/5/30-31 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:37891 Activity:nil
5/30    I love Memorial Day! I've never seen so many war movies on A&E and AMC
        in one day. Anyways, just out of curiosity, do we have a clear
        and accurate hierarchy of the terrorists? For example, in WW2 we know
        the big head is Hitler, and his commanders and generals in Africa and
        Luftwaffe. As soon as we take out all the head figures, we've won the
        war. Ditto with Vietnam, Korea, and other wars. But in the War on
        Terrorism, who's the central commander of Al Qaeda, who's supplying
        weapons and money, who's coordinating, etc? If we take out Bin Laden
        and Al Zarqawi, would it have the same  immediate effect as taking out
        Hitler? Also, what's going on with Sadam Hussein? Have we injected
        sodium pentathol into Hussein so that he would tell us where Bin Laden
        is and where he hid his nukes?
2005/5/20-22 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:37789 Activity:moderate
5/20    If Germans heil to Hitler, does Hitler heil to anyone?
        \_ He hails Victory. Sieg Heil!
        \_ Well, Hitler is German, so he must heil himself.  But, when
           Hitler is heil'd he must always return the hiel. Therefore
           Hitler finds himself in an infinite recursive heil loop.
           \_ Austrian, actually, but good theory.  "Mein Leben!"  -John
           \_ no better place to be recursive than hell.
           \_ When he heiled himself in the mirror, he found himself in two
              infinite recursive loops.
              \_ That's when he shot himself.
           \_ This sounds suspiciously similar to the Al Bundy theory on
              garage sales.
              \_ I never watched Married With Children, what was the Al
                 Bundy garage sale theory?
                 \_ The theory involves 'the final idiot.'
                    \_ Sounds like the dot com stock market strategy.
        \_ Cross-reference
           "Heil Myself!"  -John
2005/5/19-20 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic] UID:37771 Activity:nil
5/19    Santorum self-Godwins: What the Democrats are doing is "the equivalent
        of Adolf Hitler in 1942 saying, 'I'm in Paris. How dare you invade me.
        How dare you bomb my city? It's mine.' This is no more the rule of the
        senate than it was the rule of the senate before not to filibuster."
        \_ Yes, the Democrats invaded Paris in 1806 and are pretty pissed about
           being asked to stop it with the genocide.
        \_ You don't seem to understand "Godwin's Law".  You can't "godwin".
           \_ You don't seem to understand that your prescriptivist tendencies
              won't fly here, son.
              \_ So what happens when you're talking about actual eugenics
                 programs or neo-nazis?
           being asked to please stop it with the genocide.
2005/5/18 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:37739 Activity:high
5/18    Dear German Nazi historian buffs. I've always wondered about this.
        Did the Nazis ever tolerate gays and lesbians? Did they ship them to
        concentration camps, or they had a don't ask don't tell policy?
        \- er who do you think came up with the Pink Triangle. lesbos were
           sent to the eastern front.
           "In 2002 the German government released an official apology to
           the gay community." I'm still waiting for the Japs to apologize
           to gay Chinese men.
           \_ What did the Japanese do to gay Chinese men in particular that's
              not done to Chinese men in general?  I've never heard about this.
              \_ They forced them to serve as comfort men to gay Japanese
                 soldiers in the Pacific.  -John
                 \_ Source, John. --erikred
                    \_ I don't think he's being serious, guy.
                       \_ Source, guy. --erikred
        \_ Early on, the Nazi's welcomed gays, or at least tolerated them.
           The leader of the Brown Shirts, Eric Rohm,  was gay. During the SS
           purge of the SA (Brown Shirts) they killed him and one of the stated
           reasons was his moral degeneracy (code name for being gay). Soon
           after that they went into full on gay hating mode.
2005/5/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:37718 Activity:high
5/16    Anyone else getting spambombed by Germans with a grudge against
        the Turks?
        \_ Umm.. no.  What does the email say
        \_ It's a new virus.  -tom
           \_ Not new.
              \_ Yesterday's not new enough for you?
                 \_ I 4M 3133+3! G1V3 M3 Z3R0 D4Y \/\/4R3Z!!1!
           \_ Funny enough, something similar was going around a while ago,
              but on a more limited scale.  They were sending around not
              quite as offensive shit.  -John
        \_ Yep. And, conversely, I just got a random piece of spam in
           Turkish. Seem to just be advertising hosting, nothing against the
           Germans (yet?). -alexf
2005/5/11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/Religion] UID:37617 Activity:moderate
5/10    "A Baptist preacher accused of running out nine congregants who
         refused to support President Bush resigned Tuesday" Amen.
        \_ atheists kill hundreds of millions in 20th century.
           \_ So did Christians.
              \_ no, mass genocide was perpetrated by atheists.
                 \_ Here's a great site that has a lot of evidence against the
                    lie perpetrated by fucks like you that Hitler was anything
                    but a Christian.
                    Fuck you.  Hitler was a Chrisitan, and Nazi Germany was a
                    Christian nation.
                        \_ Yup, and Hitler always said he was doing it for
                    \_ Was that why the Church was reluctant to save the Jews
                       from the Nazis?
                    \_ Come on!  Hitler was a Buddhist.  Don't you see the
                       swastika on the Nazi flags?  He killed the Jews to send
                       them to the west heaven to meet the Buddha god.
                 \_ Where are you thinking?
                        \_  Hitler was immersed in the occult and he believed
                            he was the antichrist.  The notion that this
                            makes him a Christian is absurd.  A few photos
                            on the net really means nothing.  Let's consider
                            and quotes taken out of contect from the net
                            really means nothing.  Let's consider
                            what the real historians think:
                            Besides the Jews, another 6 million, mostly Polish
                            and mostly Christian, also died in the death
                            camps.  To characterize Hitler as an atheist may
                            be unfair, in which case he is a pagan.
                            This reminds me of the notion that Hitler was
                            not a Socialist.
           \_ Religious right extremists lack basic reading skills in early
              21st c.
              \_ Lefties campaign in churches.
2005/4/19-20 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:37265 Activity:nil
4/19    Gentleman, prepare your flamethrowers.  The new pope is a former
        member of the Hitler Youth.,,2089-1572667,00.html
        \_ plenty of youth in Germany were required to join the hitler
           youth durin gthe war.  i suppose the alternative is to
           just kill yourself.
           \_ Yes, please go do that.
        \_ And deserted from the German army.
        \_ A brief, compulsory member of the Hitler Youth only until he
           could get out of it by going to seminary.
           \_ until he deserted from the army in 1944.
        \_ He was also in the Nazi anti-aircraft unit.
           \_ Protecting a BMW factory making airplane engines.  Should
              we stop buying BMW's as well?
              \_ There are motd readers stupid enough to pay money for
                 a BMW?
2005/3/27-29 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:36906 Activity:kinda low
3/27    Go Pat Go!
        \_ I think Godwin's law is now invalid. -emarkp
           \_ You're right, Godwin's law generally doesn't apply when
              Nazis bring up the subject themselves.
                \_ I hear the Nazi party is running Oregon now because
                   of their euthanasia laws ... it's a slippery slope,
                   just like Pat says.
                   of their euthanasia laws ... It's a slippery slope,
                   just like Pat says.  Truly compassionate doctors would
                   let babies suffer in agony for a few months instead when
                   they know there is no hope -- and it's lots of fun for
                   the parents too.
2005/3/14-15 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:36676 Activity:high
2/23    Happy Belated Soviet Armed Forces Day! -- !ilyas
        \_ Hairy thugs with Stingers >> Soviet armed forces.  -John
           \_ Don't misunderestimate the forces of Great Mother Russia.
                    \_ WTF is "misunderestimate"? Guys, use a dictionary,
                       and English isn't German, you shouldn't string
                       prefixes like this. You simply had to say
                       "underestimate" or the opposite "overestimate."
                       \_ I learned the word from Heil Bush Jr. - op
              That's what Heil Hitler did in 1942.  Don't become another
                          \_ "Heil"!="Herr"
              6th Army soldier with lice crawling out of your nose, pus
              coming out of your wounds, and frozen toes and fingers falling
              off when bandages were unwrapped.  Keep your sorry sissy arse
              for your swiss wench or for some French whores, and stay out
              of the eastern front, cause you will end up curled up in a
              shit-filled 30 below bunker hole shivering of cold and fright,
              crying and whimpering, out of wood and out of food, knowing
              that your fuhrer has abandoned you, and knowing that you will
              never see yer mama again.
              \_ Winning a war due to a combination of aid from your allies
                 and enemy strategic fuckups doesn't count.  -John
                 \_ It doesn't?  I thought that's all pretty much all wars
                    were won. -jrleek
                    \_ Tell Napoleon, Mannerheim, Pilsudski, and a host of
                       other brilliant generals who were simply "better".
                       Note that "strategic fuckups" != "tactical fuckups".
                        \_ Zhukov is brilliant too.
                           \_ Zhukov!
                           \_ Was, he's dead, and "we have more PPsH-armed
                              peasants than you have bullets" does not imply
                              brilliance, although you're probably right.
                 \_ the war was won by the courage and sacrifice of the
                    citizens of Great Mother Russia, including teenage
                    girls from a factory holding up an entire Panzer column
                    with AA guns when the Germans first attacked.
                                - RusCom Troll
                    \_ In 1941, war was beginning.
              \_ SU and Stalin probably had more "strategic fuckups" than
                 the Germans, but they still won due to the heroic Russian
                 \_ They won because they release all 'Zigs.
              \_ The lithium's behind the Advil. Go ahead. I won't miss any.
              \_ I thought Nazi's defeat was not due to the Red Army's
                 strength, but due to Soviet's strategy of burning everything
                 down to earth before they retreat.
                 \_ In other words, strategy.
                    \_ In other words, "ilyasing their country"
                    \_ "In other words"?  Isn't that the same word I used
                       above?  -- PP
                    \_ You know what you doing.
              \_ Was it a mistake for the Allies to ally with USSR against
                 Germany?  Would the world (western world at least) have been
                 better if we let the Soviets fight the Germans by themselves,
                 either winning eventually but at much higher cost or losing
                 \_ What if the winner ended up with the Bomb?
                    \_ Like the Russians did?
                       \_ We already had the bomb at that point, and the Nazis
                          were out of the picture.
                        \_ Somebody set us up the bomb!
                        \_ So? The winner still ended up with the bomb. Why
                           should we have allied with USSR?
                           \_ Germany with the bomb, controlling all of
                              Europe, would be a much more formidable opponent
                              than the USSR was. I think it was as simple game
                              of power politics.
        \_ where is ilyas and his funny trolls?
           \_ In SOVIET RUSSIA, Ilya trolls YOU!
                \_ For great justice.
2005/2/24-25 [Recreation/Dating, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:36400 Activity:moderate
2/23    How to dump your gf/bf guide:
        \_ english?
        \_ A complementary site:
        \_ I think you're addressing the wrong audience here.
          \_ Guten tag, German John understands, German John translates, ja?
             \_ Horgen borgen lutefisk bork bork bork ick nickt vershtayn
                Dutchy speaky you NAZI FUCK, Why do you hate America?  -John
2005/2/20-22 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:36341 Activity:high
2/20    My professor said during WW2, about 1/4 of the congressmen/senate/
        politicians were publicly supportive of the Nazi regime. Isn't that
        kind of high? Can it actually be true, or he's just exaggerating?
        \_ Your prof is full of shit.  Do your own research on the German-
           American Bund and Charles Lindbergh's activities in the late 1930s.
           Also look at the isolationist movement and its association with
           the Willkie 1940 campaign.  There was a fair amount of sympathy
           for nazi Germany in the late 1930s; there was far more drive
           towards keeping the US out of European conflicts (FDR had to ram
           Lend-Lease through Congress against some stiff opposition.)  Your
           prof is making the very common revisionist mistake of taking three
           different but related philosophies (isolationism, the sympathetic
           view of the krats, and outright nazi-hugging) and lumping them
           view of the krauts, and outright nazi-hugging) and lumping them
           into the same brown pot.  -John
        \_ During the 1930s to the early 40s most people in the country were
           for segregation and there were a couple million KKK members. Also,
           Charles Lindbergh was publicly for the Nazi regime. So a lot of
           people thought that the Nazi regime was doing the right thing.
           Charles Lindbergh was publicly for the Nazi regime. So a lot of
           people thought that the Nazi regime was doing the right thing.
           \_ It goes beyond the racial and anti-semitism. Hitler was seen
              as creating prosperity and order to a Europe many Americans
              felt was going to heck in a handbasket. When Germans started
              invading, Americans felt it was none of their business and
              if it was, Hitler was just straightening out the internal
              infighting and bickering of those countries stuck in the
              remnants of the Depression.
        \_ In the 30's, quite believable.  Successively less likely after
           Poland, Benelux, France, and the Battle of Britain.  Stretches
           credulity after Pearl Harbor.  Are you sure he said during and
           not before?
           \_ Hint: WW2 started well before Pearl Harbor....
              \_ Fair enough.  Did the professor say during or at the
                 start of?  During implies through the entire war.
                 % dict during
                 During \Dur"ing\, prep. [Orig., p. pr. of dure.]
                 In the time of; as long as the action or existence of; as,
                 during life; during the space of a year.
                 \_ Probably through most of the American part of the war
                    too. Germany wasn't seen as a pariah state. There was
                    a lot of appeal to the fascist state to Americans.
                    \_ This is a pretty provocative claim.  Reference please.
        \_ In the beginning it was more about anti-communism and the Nazis
           reasserting Germany as a top power after being in the shits for
           so long after WW1.
        \_ Madison Square garden was packed with pro-Nazi rallies.  Of
           course, most leftists in America were fervent supporters
           of Uncle Joe, who was equal to if not worse than the Nazis.
           As for anti-communist, you have to remember the Nazi was
           the Socialist party in Germany.  There are no pronounced
           differences between the political tenets of the Nazis
           and the Communists, except for a violent overthrough of
           the ruling class.
           \_ You are misinformed.  National socialism advocates state
              direction of economic resources, not eradication of private
              ownership.  Also, militarism and a regimentation of society by
              the state is seen as an ultimate goal.  Communism, on the other
              hand, does not specifically advocate discrimination based on
              ethnicity, or the militaristic expansion of the state (rather,
              that of the ideology.)  The totalitarian state is seen as a
              necessary interlude on the way to a utopian "dictatorship of the
              proletariat."  Maybe you are confusing stalinism with the
              nominal communist ideal?  As for "rallyes", maybe you are
              referring to a February 1939 rally by the German-American Bund
              (who were functionally nazis) and associated organizations (such
              as the Christian Front.)  Read up on HUAC investigations of
              Fritz Kuhn and the Bund.  -John
              \_ Maybe should reread what you wrote, because it is self
                 contradictory in parts, and flies in the face of history.
                 I was speaking to the Nazis and Soviets, who politically
                 were not that different, EXCEPT, as you say, for a violent
                 overthrow of the ruling class. The notion that there were no
                 pogroms in Russia is silly.
                 LOL "confusing stalinism for the communist ideal",
                 ok comrade!.  Maybe on a piece of paper they are
                 different constructs but we live in the real world.
                 \_ "no pronounced differences except for a violent overthrow
                    of the ruling classes" is your wording.  You did not say
                    "Soviets", you said "communism".  As for pogroms, (a) do
                    do point out where I said there were none, (b) these took
                    place mainly in Czarist times, (c) ethnic discrimination
                    is not a part of communist doctrine.  And why are you
                    making me out to be an apologist for either ideology?  And
                    what does "LOL" mean?  Is this a political science term?
                    They didn't teach me that at Cal, sorry.  Try again,
                    young padawan.  -John
                    \_ Comrade, we welcome you!  - Chicom troll
                    \_ Comrade John, we welcome you!  - Chicom troll
                       \_ Chicom troll you're back!  *snif* We missed you!
                          Welcome!  -John
                    \_ well I had referred to Stalin in the previous
                       sentence, so infer what you will.  Look, I'm not
                       interested in debating the finer points of
                       dialectical materialism with experts such as
                       yourself.  However, what you are doing, perhaps
                       unwittingly, is trying to draw a distinction
                       between the Soviets and Nazis in order to
                       redeem Communism.  The mantra is Communism
                       is really a worthwhile endeavor, moreover none of
                       20th century mass murderers were Communist but
                       something else. You ignore historical
                       \_ Vladimir Ulyanov was a communist.  Want to know how
                          many people he killed? -- ilyas
                       realities for what someone writes on a
                       piece of paper (or on Wikipedia, whatever you
                       read).  If you can't see the implicit contradiction
                       in the second sentence you wrote in the previous
                       post, maybe your deception is intentional.
                       If your entire argument rests on my intentional
                       omission of the hyper-racial component of
                       the Nazi's flavor of Communism, all I can say
                       is duh.
                       \_ The Soviets didn't call themselves communist. -tom
                       \_ The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics didn't call
                          themselves communist. -tom
                          \_ They make a distiinction between the communist
                             society which is their utopian objective and the
                             communist party which (should) struggles toward
                             that goal.
                             \_ Horse manure.  The Soviets were no more
                                interested in communism than Bush is
                                interested in "freedom."  They used
                                some of communism's rhetoric to help
                                themselves sieze power.  -tom
                                themselves seize power.  -tom
                                \_ Did I say they were (or were not)?  I just
                                   wanted to point out that the communists in
                                   USSR most certainly do call themselves
                                   communist when they speak English.  To say
                                   otherwise would just be silly.  But
                                   maybe you wanted say that they did not claim
                                or consider their society to be in the ultimate
                                communist phase yet.  I took that into account.
                       \_ You are putting your own words in John's mouth.
                          (He is no less a fervent anticommie than you are.)
                          Unless you just choose to define everyone and
                          every idealogy you dislike as communists, there is no
                          reason to identify Nazism and communism.  Communism
                          ideal looks to the "next" step after capitalism and
                          struggles for an "enlightened" society without class
                          and property gradient.  (I am not suggesting that is
                          desirable).  Nazism ideal looks "back" to the age of
                          noble (= white) savages roaming Nordic forests and
                          struggles for a planet ruled by pure "Aryans" in
                          harmony with maiden nature.  (On this I disagree with
                          John.)  In practice, the implementation of both
                          \_ Huh?  Why?  Isn't that what I said?  And thank
                             you for your assertion, I ought to hang on to the
                             claim that I am somehow trying to "redeem"
                             communism.  I suppose some people might
                             equate trying to know facts about a philosophy
                             with justifying it; it's still funny :-) -John
                             \_ You said "militarism and a regimentation of
                                society by the state is seen as an ultimate
                                goal" (of nazi.)  I don't know if that was the
                                ultimate of Hitler, but it certainly was not
                                the ultimate nazi ideal.
                          create regimes that are quite similar and kill lots
                          of people, but in that they are far from alone.
                       \_ What you are doing, perhaps unwittingly, is drawing
                          a destinction between the pro-fascist American Right
                          and Nazism. By confusing the difference between
                          Communism and Nazism, you throw FUD into the very
                          real concerns some in America have about the
                          growing populist, militarist and violent Right
                          Wing movement in America. How many shopkeeper
                          windows have to be smashed before we call it the
                          American Kristnacht?
                          \_ You probably meant 'Kristalnacht,' unless you were
                             making a lame joke along the lines of
                             'Christ-nacht.'  Feel free to go on with your
                             very real concerns now. -- ilyas
                             \_ "The best way to talk to a liberal is
                                with a baseball bat." -Ann Coulter
                                And more and more people are taking up
                                her suggestion.
                                \_ Oh please.  While not a huge Ms. Coulter
                                   fan, I must remark you are straying
                                   dangerously close to accusing John Solomon
                                   of being a proto-Nazi because he suggested
                                   the baseball bat as the proper way of
                                   dealing with spammers.  Get a clue.  I
                                   wonder what Aaron would be in your book.
                                   I guess he can't be a Nazi because he's a
                                   liberal, but he did fantasize about
                                   gang-banking conservatives 50-to-1.  Also,
                                   please give me some instances where 'more
                                   and more' people are taking the baseball
                                   bat to their liberal neighbors.  Urls
                                   would be nice. -- ilyas
                                   \_ Last I checked Aaron wasn't selling
                                      millions of books and on the news
                                      as a leftie talking head. Let me know
                                      when he is. Also, he is not the
                                      ally of the people in power, you know
                                      the ones with a legal monopoly on force.
                                      Here are a few urls, there are many
                                      more if you bother to look:
2005/2/4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:36060 Activity:nil
        nice obituary about cool dude Max Schmeling, German boxer who fought
        Joe Louis twice during the Nazi era.  Didn't know he was such
        a great human being.
        \_ what is the csua login/pwd for NYT again?
           \_ u: dykewhore p: dykewhore
2005/1/30-31 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:35983 Activity:very high
1/30    When Germany fell and the US/European/Russia took over, how long
        did they occupy Germany? How long did loyal Nazi youngs and
        insurgents attack the Americans and Russians? How long were
        E/W Germany occupied before each had setup their own
        governments? I'm curious because perhaps we could draw some
        parallels and make better guesses as to how much longer the
        insurgents will continue before they gave up, and how much
        longer our troops will be in Iraq.
        \_ Very good questions. I read about the situation in France in 1945,
           and it was pretty bad.  There was a frenzy of revenge killings of
           'collaborators.'  No courts, or anything.  It was allowed to
           continue for a while too, because it was felt that the people
           needed to 'vent.'  So many unsavory things happened in WWII.
           Maybe time reduces the perceived magnitude of things -- all the
           crap back then was much much bigger than anything today,
           Iraq included.  -- ilyas
           \_ tell us about the Russian Jews!
        \_ Not many insurgents in Germany--they just kind of fell apart, and
           Their sense of order (unlike some places, they're a reasonably
           civilized country aside from the occasional 6-million-worth slipup)
           kept them in line.  Plus they were probably right sick of getting
           blown up by 1000-bomber fleets and hordes of very angry Russians.
           There were some SS plans for and attempts at guerilla gangs (look
           up "werewolves") but all in all nothing came of it.  Occupation
           lasted until present, and they were allowed to have an army again
           around 1954.  The Bundesrepublik itself was set up around 1948, so
           the whole Iraq election would seem to support that pattern.  -John
           \_ present=2004. 2004-1945=59 years. You're guessing that we'll be
              in Iraq for at least 59 years? Hm. Also a lot of good things
              came out from Germany occupation, like getting the best
              scientists. What good things will come out from occupying Iraq?
              In my opinion I don't think Iraq and Germany have much in common
                \_ Try 100+ Billions of barrels of oil, which we cannot live
              \_ It would not surprise me.  The western Allies stayed in .de
                 initially to prevent it from arising again, and later because
                 they were facing off against the Soviets.  Scientists, NATO,
                 trying to build a strong democratic partner and establishing
                 permanent bases were just facets of an overall strategy of
                 presence--the US has not been at war with a democratic nation
                 during this century (barring some questionable interference
                 in other countries' domestic politics) so it makes sense to
                 (a) try to build democracies, and (b) stay there to make sure
                 they remain democratic--your ideal result will be an ally
                 which doesn't attack you.  Now take a look at a world map and,
                 forgetting for a moment about whether it's right or wrong,
                 try to convince me in light of current strategic alignments
                 that it doesn't make sense for the US to hang around Iraq for
                 some time.  -John
        \_ Germany was broken by 1945, not like Iraq, where the army just
           melted away to fight as insurgents.  Also, Germany did not have
           1 billion muslim sympathizers supporting them.  Also the Germans
           under the Red Army's occupation were just scared to death, with
           the Red Army's reputation for brutality and mass rape, while
           Germans under Allied occupation were just glad they weren't under
           the Russians, so why make trouble.
        \_ The most important difference: Iraqis didn't kill millions of
           Americans. Heck, they didn't even start the war.
           \_ Uh, overall US casualties in WWII (both theaters) were around
              400k dead.  -John
        \_ Germans weren't relgious extremists either.
           \_ THe people weren't but you cant' say the same thing about
              the leadership. The cult of Nazism was very strong. Look
              at the runes next time you see propaganda film from that era.
2005/1/21 [Reference/History/WW2, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:35852 Activity:nil
i/21    Another related article, especially for the "Useful Idiot" lefty
        on the MOTD who regurgitates everything that Mike Moore says:
        \_ "Let's start with a test: Do you have any opinions that you
           would be reluctant to express in front of a group of your
           peers?  If the answer is no, you might want to stop and
           think about that. If everything you believe is something
           you're supposed to believe, could that possibly be a
           coincidence? Odds are it isn't. Odds are you just think whatever
           you're told."
           He definitely has the Limbaugh trick of starting with a ridiculous
           assertion down.  -tom
           \_ So, why would this be a ridiculous assertion? Do you actually
              believe whatever you are taught to believe? If so, then you
              really do have a small mind, which many on the MOTD have already
              suspected of you. Of course, your failure to understand and
              participate in real discourse is legend. Anyway, the article is
              a-political. It merely points out the fact that people like you
              are merely monkeys trained to think the way you do and have
              never had a real independent assertion in your life.
           \_ I don't know if Limbaugh has the monopoly on that.  But it's the
              false dichotomy that amuses me.  Another reason you might not
              have a problem stating what you believe is that you're
              self-confident (that is, you know people will disagree, but you
              don't care).
              \_ So in other words you are a coward.
           \_ What is an example of such an opinion? That he likes little boys?
2004/12/22 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:35404 Activity:nil
12/22   "Time Magazine - Hitler - Man of 1938 (January 2, 1939)"
        on eBay, for $71.00. The seller says "(It is not often we
        have the privilege to have a leader like our current President
        Bush ...thank you Mr. President..thank you God!)"
2004/12/9-10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:35228 Activity:very high
12/9    What does the Sig in Sig Heil mean? I can't find it on Babel, ok thx
        \_ 'Sieg' misspelled.
           \_ "Sieg Heil" means "Hail Victory", right?

                       \_ Uh huh.  If it's so damn tiring, then don't post to
                          motd -- a simple solution for a simple problem.  I'm
                          surprised you haven't figured it out yet, son.  Pot,
                          Kettle, black, etc?
                          \_Okay.  Thread nuked.
                 \_ Are you angry about your past relationship(s)?
              \_ Sort of.  "Heil" means "well-being" (also "intact" or
                 "healthy").  I think it's originally a literal translation
                 of an Italian fascist greeting itself taken from the
                 Roman "ave" (Partha?)  Most nazi shit like that doesn't make
                       \- "Atque in perpetuum, frater, ave atque vale."
                 sense, if you think about it--that's why they lost.  -John
                 \_ uh...They lost because they abused the German language?
                    I hope those rules of winning/losing don't apply to
                    the English language or we may be in for a big loss.
                    \_ The weird pseudo-religious obsession with teutonic
                       mythology, over-investment in wonder weapons, very odd
                       racial "science" and some other minor quirks helped.
                       \_Poor use of language: check
                         Religious obsession: check
                         Over-investment in wonder weapons: check
                         Pseudo-science: check
                         We're on our way! Woo-hoo!
                         \_ Hitler had a wonderful use of language (poor
                            writing ability though). -- ilyas
                         \_ Hitler used language very well, he just
                            wrote poorly. -- ilyas
                         \_ You're missing the "snappy dresser" element:
                            You can't be an evil tyranny if your supremo looks
                            like a schlub surrounded by a bunch of pimply
                            semi-literate goons.  -John
                            \_  I'll be damned.  So dressing like a slob is
                                all that's saving us from tyranny?  Now I know
                                the real reason all those fuckers in jesusland
                                fear homosexuals.  And I thought they were just
                                bigoted assholes.
                                \_ That, and the goons.  Oh, and the Hun
                                   had better evil militaristic tyranny
                                   music.  Compare and contrast:
                           (you may want to
                                   consider not blasting Boche marching tunes
                                   at work.)  -John
                    \_ According to Dave Barry, the importance of good grammar
                       can be overstated.
                 \_ You mean like 'hale' in english? -- ilyas
                    \_ For what it's worth, this is where the English "hail"
                       comes from as well.  --mconst
                    \_ Same basic idea and word root, but I don't think the
                       concept translates very well.  Like "waidmann's heil"
                       is an old saying to wish someone health/luck/success.
                    \_ Hale Dubya, my Leader!
                    \_ What is with all the abuse of my last name?  You are all
                       meanies! -phale
2004/12/6 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:35188 Activity:high 50%like:32222 54%like:32631
12/6    Dear German John, I hope you like this:
        \_ Consider yourself forgiven for all the Heil Cherman Chohn
           links you've posted in the past.  -John
           \_ for that, HEIL JOHN! Har har (sorry couldn't resist)
        \_ What did anyone ever see in Cheryl Teigs?
           \_ She seems to have the standard look of the late 70's to
              early 80's.
           \_ She's a very attractive woman. I saw a picture of her taken
              recently and she's definitely a MILF. If she looks that good
              now then I am sure she looked great then. The thing with the
              70s is that styles were ugly and so women like Cheryl Ladd
              and such all look 'generic' to us now. It wasn't a glamorous
              look like Marilyn Monroe that we can readily identify with,
              but what's underneath the hood is still pretty nice. Twiggy,
              I don't get.
              \_ Models don't exist to be attractive.  They exist to sell
                 clothes.  Anorexic looking models emphasize the product more.
                 \_ It's models with big derrieres who are selling products
                    now, so it's just changing fashion. I cannot get into
                    Twiggy no matter how you dress her, though - even as
                    a flat-chested flapper. Blah.
           \_ Same for Audrey Quock.  If SI were to pick an Asian, please at
              least pick one that has a more attractive face.  -- Chinese
        \_ Very nice pics if you want to learn glamour photography.  But the
           quality of women is not to my taste.  It depends on what you like.
           (I know many of them are supermodels.)
2004/11/16-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:34932 Activity:moderate
11/16   Nice!  Karl Rove in line for Time's Person of the Year.  This rules.
        Other persons of the year have included Hitler and Stalin, so I think
        this is very appropriate.
        \_ The award is not necessarily a positive award, but meant to
           represent a person who had a big impact.
                \_ Not in 2001.
                   \_ Who got it in 2001?
                        \_ Guiliani
        \_ FDR and Arafat both made the list as well.
           \_ FDR the president?  Didn't he die a long time ago?
        \_ Yeah, why don't you include all the TIME Persons of Year in
           that comparison. Starting with last years.. the U.S. soldier.
           I'm glad you think that about Stalin and Hitler, and Rove.
           It's nice to know we all like to get along.
        \_ Very impressive job with the self-Godwin.
2004/11/12-13 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:34871 Activity:high
11/12   John, ever considered that people think that YOU are the close
        minded, self righteous fucker? Oh, and stop fucking making
        cowardly death threats via email. If you have a problem, come
        and see me personally. PS, SIG HEIL German JOHN!
        \_ I'm cocky, closed-minded and self-righteous.  I am also a
           considerable deal more intelligent than you.  But if you think I
           have threatened you in any way, you should forward these "threats"
           to the police, to the postmaster of the site where they
           originated, and to that site's upstream, as you're probably nuts
           enough to believe that I've actually done this.  Especially
           "death threats", as these tend to be taken seriously.  I also
           invite you to post specifics of these "threats" here.  Otherwise,
           SHUT the FUCK UP, and try to come up with something better
           than the nazi thing?  It's old.  -John
        \_ Neat, what's the story? -- ilyas
        \_ Leave John alone. He's one of the few rational people on motd who
           isn't afraid to speak his mind. -williamc
           \_ Seriously.     -POC
        \_ dear loser. you'll find everyone prefers john over you, whoever
           the fuck you are. he probably didn't threaten your life, but it
           sure would be more comfortable here with you dead.
2004/10/19 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, ERROR, uid:34231, category id '18005#1.775' has no name! , ] UID:34231 Activity:nil
        This is... so good to see. How low can it go? Predictions?
        \_ actually, why did it go down? If anything, it should go up.
           Everyone's talking about it, everyone knows that someone
           will watch it. It generates hype and viewers alike. If
           anything, shouldn't it go up?
           \_ Advertiser boycotts, lousy credit ratings, stupid politicking.
              Investors don't like moves that make them nervous.
        \_ What's so special about Sinclair that it makes you want it in
           particular to decline?  I've never heard of it.  (I don't watch
           \_ come out of your cave and google for sinclair/stolen honor - danh
           \_ remember in ww2, Hitler and Musolini manipulated their
              citizens with propaganda radio, newspaper, and radios?
              It is still happening, and the involved parties include
              Sinclair, Rupert Murdock, Fox News, and Bush.
2004/10/17-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:34185 Activity:nil
10/17   Let's all take a moment to thank the Motd Hygiene Nazi for saving
        us from having to read the fruit fly troll.  Thanks, MHN!
2004/10/13 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:34097 Activity:high
 10/13   What I think about when German John posts to motd:
        \_ what happened to the swastica?
        \_ Yeah, don't let the fact that he's Swiss get in the way of your
           ridiculous rhetoric.
           \_ Can he make good quesadillas?
              \_ I bet BUD DAY makes GREAT quesadillas.
              \_ No, but he yodels with the best of them.
                \_ Er, oil-of-olay-deedle-dee, when my nazi gold tooth
                   fillings don't get in the way.  -John
2004/10/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:34045 Activity:insanely high
10/12   Bud Day is the most decorated soldier since MacArthur in WWII
        A True War Hero Speaks on Kerry
        \_ I would like to point out the incumbent has involved us in
           a long messy guerilla war we have no hope of winning ever,
           just to promote the 100 percent free market ideals
           of his masters.  thanks. - danh
           \_ I really wonder what people like yourself did during the
              first years of WWII or Korea.  I imagine some committed
              suicide because of the impending doom.
              \_ You, sir, are no FDR!
           \_ Hey, it's hard work.  No one said it wasn't going to be hard
              work. -Dubya
        \_ Er, didn't this already get posted, discussed, flamebaited,
           and run into the ground?  Swift Boat Guy, are you back?
           \_ Yes.  The thread has been restored in its entirety.
              Gawd Bless AmeriKKKa.
        \_ So Bud Day, a POW, does not think kindly of the anti-war movement.
           What's new?  It was a very ethically challenging time.
        \_ To sum: John Kerry, WDYHA?
        \_ Attaboy... don't ever think about your mistakes.  It's just a
           sign of a poor leader.
        \_ All the medals in the world can't change the fact that Vietnam
           was arguably America's dirtiest war.  I love the smell of napalm
           in the morning.  That soldier needs to read The Best and The
           \_ Why, because Kerry and Fonda said so?
              \_ Open your eyes.  Four million civilians died in this war.
                 As for you, you can watch Fog of War, in which the Secretary
                 of Defense at the time gives his personal views of the war.
                 \_ i think a larger ratio of the population in Vietnam died
                    than the russian korean french and german population excuses
                    you give
                 \_ 4 million is exaggerated. McNammara is responsible for
                    the outcome, he is an asshole of grandest kind - why
                    should I listen to anything he says?  He completely
                    botches the war effort and then expects people to listen
                    to his contrite exculpation - he was part of the problem.
                    800,000 died in the battle of Stalingrad, more at Kursk,
                    300,000+ at Okinawa, 2+  million in the Korean War.
                    Was Korea a bad idea too?
                    \_ *YES*  If USA didn't cross the 38th parallel line,
                       Chinese would not of being involved.  You would have
                    \_ *YES*  If USA didn't cross the 38th parallel, PRC
                       would not have being involved.  You would have
                       a lot less casualty then.  Unfortunately, USA's
                       mentality was blinded by their ideology, completely
                       miscalculate the rational behind China's involvement.
                       mentality was blinded by its ideology, completely
                       miscalculating the rationale behind China's involvement.
                       Then again, we are waging this "war on terror" and
                       "war on iraq" without clear understanding of why our
                       enemy was fighting against us neither.
                       "war on Iraq" without a clear understanding of why our
                       enemy is fighting against us.
                       \_ above has been processed by volunteer english
                          correcting daemon
                          \_ thank you
                       \_ "You ... we"  Make up your mind.
                       \_ Nothing wrong with crossing the 38th parallel
                          to destroy a regime that believed in the evil
                          communist cult, and invaded first.  US probably
                          should have started a dialogue with PRC though.
                       \_ Crossing the 38th parallel was fine.  We should
                          have talked to the PRC about it, but there's
                          nothing wrong with crushing an expansionist
                          oppressive communist regime that attacked first.
                          Furthermore, there were plenty of reasons to
                          reunite Korea at the time, and it has only
                          become more desireable in hindsight. -jrleek
                    \_ WW2:  America and its allies were attacked first.
                       Korea:  South Korea was attacked first.
                       Vietnam:  ... duh.
                       Are you really this stupid?
                       The 4 million figure has generally not been challenged,
                       with notable exception to your "4 million is
                       exaggerated" brilliant expository.
                       Why should you view McNamara's interview?  He was
                       Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam War.  If you
                       don't want to hear this viewpoint, it's certainly
                       your right to block out this essential primary source.
                           \_ Your history is completely wrong.  Ho
                              Chi Minh attacked the South, not the other way
                              around.  Vietnam was a defensive war honoring
                              SEATO treaties.
                        \_ The reason for a war, while important, does not
                           excuse bad conduct.  You could argue either side,
                           from "we continued a French colonialist spat" to
                           "we were safeguarding an independent country."  The
                           problem is that there was never a clear mandate,
                           the RVN was a corrupt and doomed system (for
                           whatever reason), US leadership treated the war
                           as sort of a playground for new ideas, and many
                           US troops acted wrongly.  In a situation like that
                           of the US in Vietnam, having the clear moral high
                           ground is tremendously important, no matter what
                           you do.  We lost it, so even if the war was fought
                           on good reasons (as I think) both strategically and
                           philosophically, we fucked it up royally.  -John
                           \_ Just little fact.  When WW2 ended, USA actually
                              recognized N.Vietnam government for a split
                              second, then reversed its decision once USA found
                              N.Vietnamese government's Communist nature.
                              It is unfortunate that until TODAY, most people
                              in USA still don't understand people's desire
                              of self-determination over all other things
                              which USA treasures: Christianity, human right,
                              democracy.  For many, USA is just an continuation
                              of European's imperial conquest, driven by
                              doctrine of White Man's Burden written centries
                              \_ Yup, let's stop paying all those third world
                                 countries.  Fuck White Man's Burden, let em
                              \_ Yes, we should support self determination for
                                 \_ Chicom troll = pwned.
                                 \_ And Tibet.
        \_ I would like to point out the incumbent has involved us in
           a long messy guerilla war we have no hope of winning ever,
           just to promote the 100 percent free market ideals
           of his masters.  thanks. - danh
           \_ I really wonder what people like yourself did during the
              first years of WWII or Korea.  I imagine some committed
              suicide because of the impending doom.
        \_ Er, didn't this already get posted, discussed, flamebaited,
           and run into the ground?  Swift Boat Guy, are you back?
                              \_ Your Vietnamese history is wrong.  The three
                                 regions of Vietnam voted, two chose to stay
                                 aligned with France.  The third, the North,
                                 split.  This was not good enough for Ho Chi
                                 Minh, so he attacked the South.
                                 \_ huh? what have you been smoking?
        \_ Do you think that posting this again day after day is going to
           convert more voters to your crusade?
        \_ Only what I want to talk about matters and I will keep posting it
           and reposting it ad initium forever. Get used to it.
2004/10/4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Uncategorized/German] UID:33911 Activity:high
10/4    Why do people pick up hitch hikers?
        \_ people pick up hitchhikers in berkeley all the time
        \_ because they've been in the same position in the past and someone
           picked them up, and interesting conversation.
        \_ help one's fellow man?
        \_ they ask less questions than the kids on the playground.
        \_ A lot of kids in Germany do carpentry apprenticeships and go out
           as journeymen (dressed in black, usually with corduroy bell-
           bottoms and big hats.)  They don't earn any money, and go work for
           carpenters wherever.  Giving them rides is considered a nice thing
           to do.  -John
           \_ Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer, Ein German John!!! HEIL!
              \_ Paolo is that you?
                \_ before I answer this may I ask you what method do you use
                   (did you use your own scripts, and what techniques did you
                   use) to find out who posted what messages? Thanks.
              \_ What's your problem?
        \_ Because they forget they can get their throats sliced if
           they pick one up.
        \_ I once picked up an old lady in Oakland Chinatown in daytime for a
           short distance.  Everything went fine and she was grateful for the
           help.  But I thought about the possibilities afterwards and I
           regretted doing it, and I'll never do it again.
           \_ Yeah, I'd be pissed too if I didn't get free head for a free ride
              It's the rules of the road.
2004/9/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History] UID:33698 Activity:very high
9/22    Anyone here learn lock picking?  I'm kind of interested in picking it
        up (no, not for nefarious purposes).  Any suggestions on how to start,
        which lockpicks to buy?
        \_ Kryptonite U-Locks.
           \_ (ulock picking with BIC pen)
              \_ I tried this with my lock, but couldn't get it to work.
                 The inside diameter of the pen is smaller than the diameter
                 of the center round bit in the lock, and the pen doesn't
                 fit in.  Am I just using the wrong Bic pen, or does this
                 not work on the newer locks(I just got my lock)?
              \_ wow, you're so clever!  I'm sure the previous poster had no
                 idea about that link which has been passed around the net
                 400 times in the past week!
                 \_ wow, you're so insightful, assuming that i didn't know
                    that he knew. gee, why else would someone post
                    "Kyrptonite U-Locks." and nothing else? i was merely
                    providing an additional reference, moron.
        \_ MIT guide to lockpicking is a good start.  -John
           \_ I've already read it.  Now I'm interested in getting picks and
              \_ then get some picks and practice.  It's the best way to learn.
                 You can also learn a lot by getting some locks and dismantling
                 them to see how they work inside.
                 A good thing to do is get a board and buy some standard locks
                 mount them in it and practice on that.  It makes a good thing
                 to practice on without having to explain yourself.  -EricM
                 \_ Just pick the locks at your home, and your car inside your
                    \_ That's a very bad idea.  I screwed up a lot of locks
                       while learning (I got in, though).
                 \_ That was my plan.  Did you see how I asked about which
                    lockpicks to buy?  Any suggestions?
                    \_ Glock 23
                       \_ I hate glocks. -- ilyas
                          \_ Glocks never felt terribly comfortable in my
                             hand.   -POC
                             \_ Let's not forget the 5 metric ton trigger
                                pull, and the refined austrian watergun design.
                                Everytime a glock is sold, God kills a
                                kitten. -- ilyas
                                \_ It's a good's just that *I*
                                   have never found a use for one...and yeah,
                                   the trigger pull kind of sucks.
                                   Personally, I like the factory installed
                                   pull of smiths and the usp.  -POC
                                   \_ I find that the handle/grip is too short
                                      for my hand. --erikred
                                \_ That's silly. It's lighter than most DAOs
                                   and can be easily modded lighter. They're
                                   proven tough and simple to maintain.
                                   Fashion snob.
                       \_ While this method is doubtless effective, it seems
                          like it might be hazardous to practice in your home,
                          and probably lacks in stealthiness.
                          \_ Yes but practice becomes unnecessary. And think
                             of the many other uses around the house! I suppose
                             the property damage could be a problem.
        \_ Northern Tool and Equipment has some:
           Their latest catalog had ~20 piece set.
           \- BTW, some locks are a lot harder than others ... even without
              talking about say medcos, BESTs are not good to begin with.
              also the general problem of "getting pasted locked doors"
              also the general problem of "getting past locked doors"
              has a lot of other solutions aside from picking the lock ...
              climbing over things, using shims etc. --psb
2004/9/16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:33566 Activity:high
9/16    Hitler biopic stirs up controversy (BBC)
        \_ posted before,
2004/9/16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:33563 Activity:very high
9/16 (SF Chronicle)
        Police escorted Sue Niederer of Hopewell, N.J., from a rally ... after
        she demanded to know why her son, Army 1st Lt. Seth Dvorin, 24, was
        killed in Iraq. Dvorin died in February while trying to disarm a bomb.
        As shouts of "Four More Years" subsided, Niederer, standing in the
        middle of a crowd of some 700, continued to shout about the killing of
        her son. Secret Service and local police escorted her out of the
        event, handcuffed her and placed her in the back of a police van. The
        first lady continued speaking, touting her husband's record on the
        economy, health care and the war on terror ...
        [Cue "Two Americas" footage]
        \_ Posted by someone who never served. Never understands why good
           people die. And most of all, looks very short-term.
           \_ you only read news written and posted by veterans?
              how many vets are there on soda?  like 5?  - danh
           \_ Please justify why 1024 Americans have died and between 7000
              and 17,000 (not including civilians) have been wounded in Iraq.
              Also please justify Iraqi deaths.  Thanks.
           \_ Also caused by someone who never served.  Never understands how
              needless war can be.  And most of all, is the president of
              \_ war is needless? That's like saying humans don't need to eat.
                 \_ "CAN BE".  Retard.
                 \_ Some wars are needless. Are you trying to say that
                    all wars are a good idea?
                    \_ I am saying war is as inevitable as you are alive.
           \_ He died for our oil and for war profiteers. Bless him. He
              certainly didn't die defending anything. (aside: Soda seems
              really damn slow lately. It's interfering with my trolling.)
           \_ Would you die for your country during WW2, or in Iraq?
              I think everyone agrees dying in WW2 would be worth it.
              Apparently this mother feels Iraq wasn't worth it.
              Maybe she should shut the hell up and salute the flag, since
              dying in Iraq is worth it, too.
                \_ if the Axis had won then this world would be full of
                   hot blonde women and hot azn women           -troll
                   \- and dubya would be the center of attention in a
                      bukkake circle! -liberal troll
                   \_ My history fu is weak.  Why was Nazi against Jews but not
                      Japanese?  I thought back then Europeans considered all
                      Asians inferior.
                      \_ Simple answer: strategy.  Hitler tried to rationalize
                         it to the public by saying that the Japanese were the
                         most 'Aryan' of the Asians.
                         \_ who would have won between Japan and Germany
                            if they fought each other one-on-one?
                            \_ Everyone else, really, but the real answer is
                               more complex.  At what point? With what
                               \_ Not to meantion, where?  Japan and
                                  Germany aren't all that close to each
                                  other you know.  And their militaries
                                  were specialized in different areas.
                                  If it was a fight in the middle of
                                  Russia (which seems the most likely
                                  place) I think Germany would probably
                                  trounce Japan.  In SE Asia, well...
                      \_ Nazis featured racist ideology, but it wasn't the
                         basis for their actions except with regard to fighting
                         a) Bolsheviks and b) Jews, perceived as having an
                         inferior, polluting culture and controlling business
                         and politics, and importantly being seen as communist
                         allies. It was also a rationalization for conquering
                         Slavic lands for lebensraum. The book "The
                         International Jew" was published in the 20's by
                         Henry Ford's publishing company. The inferiority or
                         not of Asians was pretty much irrelevant (except as
                         it brings into question the other racist ideas).
                         Ironically, Hitler's paranoia about communists had
                         basis in reality as Stalin spelled out a plan of
                         making all of Europe into Soviet states.
        \_ With all due respect what are they supposed to do?  Let her
           scream, yell and disrupt the rally?
2004/9/13-14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2/Japan] UID:33492 Activity:moderate
9/13    Curious, after WW2 were there any retaliatory attempts by pissed
        off German/Japanese on Americans?
        \_ there were minor ones from fanatical SS officers who just wouldn't
           die and go away in Germany, look up "Germany"
           "ww2" "werewolves".  they weren't very effective - danh
        \_ People back then were simpler minded.  Even if they wanted to
           retaliate, technics for mass destruction by individuals and
           media needed for the public fear effects weren't avilable.
           \_ I do believe Japanese hated Americans for the atomic bombs for
              a long time.
                \_ and yet I wonder why there hasn't been a single case of
                   Japanese suicide bombers in a major American city. I mean,
                   who could resist 99 hot azn virgins in the Heaven?
                   \_ Oh, hot azn virgins.  My pant's getting tight.
2004/9/8-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:33426 Activity:high
9/8     We blame Hitler for the extermination of Jews, but shouldn't it be
        Himmler that we should blame at? I mean, Hitler didn't personally
        order all the gory evilness that went on in the concentration camps.
        It was Himmler who architected everything. We're barking at the wrong
        \_ Hitler didn't?  Read a book.  And even if he didn't directly
           personally order such a thing (which he did) he would still be
           responsible for it.  Trollboy, don't try to say Hitler didn't know
           that 6 million people were killed in the camps or how Jews were
           treated in the ghettoes.
        \_ thank you for using "architect" as a verb, so everyone can tell
           you're a moron
           \- What exactly is wrong with verbing this noun? In some cases
              poor grammar leads to confusion over intended meaning.
              In this case, I dont think "designed" is any less vague.
              Actually distinguishing between someone responsible for
              philososphy vs implementation is useful, but that is a different
              criticism than rote repeition of "dont use architect as a verb".
              In the SW industry, I think "to architect" is just as specific
              as "software deisgn" ... and possibly can come do be distin-
              guished from a "software engineer". In the building architecture
              business perhaps there is a productive distinction between
              someone responsible for the aesthetic design and the actual
              building of the building. Do object to using "deliverable" as
              a noun, when it should be an adjective? How about "accessorize"?
              That is another example of something that has a specific meaning
              in the context of say women and clothing rather than generic "to
              make an accessory of". If you cant explain the reason for an
              objection such as this, you're as much a "defender if the faith"
              as Henry VIII was. Are you the foolish Canute or the wise one?
        \_ "Hitler was not sent to you. Hitler was created by you. He arose
           out of your Collective Consciousness, and could not have existed
           without it... If you float a crazy idea, and 10 million people
           agree with you, you might not think you're so crazy."  -CWG 2.
        \_ This is just because the holocaust never really happened, it is
           all just a jewish plot to garner sympathy.  Kill all the jews!
           -Islamic Militant.
2004/9/7 [Politics/Domestic, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:33392 Activity:high
9/7     <DEAD><DEAD>
        Flag burning amendment to be called for vote.
        \_ When will they ratify the constitution-as-toilet-paper amendment?
        \_ interesting. How about a billboard that shows flag burning?
           Or a screen saver? Or just talking about it? How about theatrical
           play that simulates the burning of the flag?
           \_ It will probably say something like "Physical destruction or
              desecration of the flag is prohibited".  But if that's the case,
              what if someone made a flag from 2 halves, but didn't sow them
              together ad then burned the pieces next to each other?
              What about destroying an old 48-star flag?  Is it really the US
              flag anymore?
           \_ In Germany just about any such hypothetical scenario involving
              the swastica involves the word 'no.'  There was this really neat
              the swastika involves the word 'no.'  There was this really neat
              WWII strategy game called Hearts of Iron and it had the Kaiser
              era flag for the German side, because the game company didn't
              feel like making a separate german version.  *sigh* -- ilyas
              \_ yeah, I don't really see any difference between a swastika
                 and a U.S. flag
                 \_ Well, as far as I am concerned there should not be any
                    restrictions on either.  German policy on the swastika
                    is like a little kid who closes his eyes and hopes the
                    bogey man will go away. -- ilyas
                    bogey man will go away.  Actually, a point is worth
                    emphasizing here -- the Constitution prohibits the US
                    government from drawing ideological distinctions as far
                    as free speech is concerned.  That's a Very Good Thing (tm).
                      -- ilyas
        \_ Why do you hate America?
           \_ Which would you prefer, burn the flag or burn the Constitution?
                \_ Lets do both at the same time!
        \_ Hasn't this idiotic flag-burning amendment been introduced into every
           session of Congress for the last 25 years or something?  There must
           be some districts in which introducing this bill is a requirement
           for holding office.  The chances of this actually passing are nil.
2004/9/7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:33390 Activity:high
9/7     HEIL! I hate Juden, but I have a tender side too!
        \_ SPRINGTIME for Hitler and Germany!
        \_ "Not many people know it, but the Fuhrer was a terrific dancer."
        \_ Allen Tom says that he was a vegetarian.
2004/8/1-2 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:32615 Activity:insanely high
8/1     Proof that America is as obsessed with Germany (look at all the
        WW2 games) as Germany is obsessed with America:
        Germans making American Indian/American Colonization games. Heh.
        \_ and who exactly was asking for such proof and why is it relevant?
        \_ Proof?  Uh whatever.  Anyway, why is it surprising?  Each side
           spent a generation of lives and fortune fighting the other within
           living memory.  That does something to a people.
        \_ I just spent some time playing Codename Panzer. TOTALLY AWSOME.
           Kick butt as a Panzer commander. Again made in Germany. HEIL!!!
           \_ Germany makes a ton of games, and many of them are not
              war related.
                \_ yeah but how many American games show nice looking German
                   commanders killing the evil Amerikans? Codename Panzer--
                   definately made in Germany.
                   \_ Combat Mission games do. -- ilyas
                        \_ Seconded.  BF1942 does, as well as most of the
                           WWII multiplayer ones.  The sole concession is
                           usually removing the swastikas from the tail fins
                           of kraut planes.  -John
        \_ Evidence != Proof
2004/7/20 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:32371 Activity:high
7/20    Dear German John, HEIL! Where/how did you learn your German, and
        what other languages do you speak?
        \_ I took inspiration from your mom's muffled screams. -John
2004/6/27-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:31032 Activity:high
6/27    come on... watch the trailer.  You know you want it.
        \_ I can load up propaganda tapes from Stalin, Hitler, Musselini,
           and others if I wanted and they're better at it.
           \_ That you would even think to compare Michael Moore to Hitler and
              Stalin says a lot.
           \_ It's funny how when people like Franken or Moore create
              satirical books or movies about the right-wing propoganda
              machine, they themselves are called propagandists.
              \_ Two wrongs don't make a right.  Didn't your father teach
                 you anything?
                 \_ How is satire a wrong? Of course, in Al Franken's
                    attempt to be humorous, he actually makes factual
                    references. But I guess many people these days
                    interpret factual and funny as propoganda.
           \_ I'm really tired of Moore being called a propagandist.  He's
              a fucking filmmaker.  He tells his story.  He's not selling
              any bill of goods but his own.  If you don't buy it, don't buy
              it.  He's a citizen who sees some things that he thinks is wrong
              and points them out.  He urges others to take part in their own
              democracy.  To me, that's patriotism, not propoganda.
              \_ He sells a story for the purpose of making money while at
                 the same time spreading lies which is actually worse than
                 the Axis powers.  They weren't making money off their lies.
                 \_ Yes, Michael Moore is so unethical for making money off
                    his work.  He should aspire to the moral standard of Stalin
                    and only use his work to opress people.
                    \_ No.  It's the same.  He takes advantage of the
                       uneducated masses who still think everything on the
                       screen presented as documentary is truth.  He's
                       cynical and has a dark soul.  And you bought into his
                       lies and even worse, defend them.
                       \_ Oh, you mean the same people who think everything
                          the president says is true?   Cynical?  Dark soul?
                          I'm sure glad nobody like that is in our government.
                          \_ No, I mean the same people who think everything
                             the President says is a lie because MM told them
                             so, even when it isn't so.
                             \_ Wow, so MM makes money off his work, and this
                                makes him comparable to Stalin and Hitler?!?
                                So, what, Bay Area drivers suck, so the BA is
                                comparable to Auschwitz?  Maybe we can make
                                AL Franken into Pontius Pilate for criticizing
                                Bush.  Dumbass.
                             \_ You seem convinced that this movie is the
                                run of the mill pack-o-lies.  Have you seen
                                it yet?  If you have point out some lies.
                                If not, fuck off.
                                \_ I don't care about this discussion, but
                                   I always think this kind of defense is
                                   funny.  "Just because MM has lied
                                  every OTHER time, doesn't mean he's
                                  lying this time!  Do you have proof
                                  he's lying?" Ooookay... -jrleek
                                  \_ Your "every other time" claim needs
                                     some support.  And yes I've read the
                                     claims of lies in B4C, and I haven't
                                     seen any that weren't real stretches.
                                     \_ I was paraphrasing the post I was
                                        replying to.  -jrleek
                                        \_ So you're not jumping on the
                                           "Moore is a liar" bandwagon?
                             \_ You seem convinced that this movie is simply
                                a pack-o-lies.  Have you seen it yet?  If
                                you have point out some lies.  If not, fuck off.
                             \_ Oh, so you're upset because Michael Moore is
                                making Bush's enemies mad at Bush.  Wow,
                                you're right, he really is a dark soul.
           \_ Yeah, but anti-Stalin/Hitler/Mussolini tapes ring of truth,
              just like anti-Bush footage.  Clinton footage -- well, everyone
              knows Monica gave him head and he's a slickster.  Kerry, well,
              he hasn't gotten his chance yet.
              \_ I wasn't saying MM was similar to anti-Stalin, etc tapes.  I
                 I was saying he uses the same rhetorical tactics as those
                 people and you're all eating it up because you're being told
                 a few things that are true or kind of true so it has a ring
                 of truth and then he slips in the lies which you swallow
                \_ can you tell us what the lies you speak of are? oh, wait,
                   you don't want to see the propaganda, so you can't tell us.
        \_ Even Christopher Hitchens, who hates Ronald Reagen, wrote an
           an article called "The Lies of Michael Moore."
           \_ Ooh, now _there's_ some glowing credentials.  Hitchens is a
              scumbag editorializor who has his own massive problem with
              \- Hitchens more or less hates everyone, except maybe
                 George Orwell. I dont think anybody actually likes
                 Hitchens in a friendly kind of way. --psb
2004/6/14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30786 Activity:nil
6/14    Stuka!  JU-87 is the STANDARD!
2004/6/13-14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30775 Activity:very high
6/12    "A Bridge Too Far", Operation Garden, WW2, good movie, on A&E now.
        Unlike Band of Brothers it's got REAL German speakers and authentic
        \_ BDG, is that you?
           \_ sorry, but what does this have to do with marriage?
              \_ He probably ment Bridge not Bride. It is common knowledge
                 that by the time a woman becomes a bride, it has gone too
                 far. To me German snipers and machine-gun nests are far
                 more inviting than the arms of blushing bride.
                 \_ Dumbass. -- ilyas
                 \_ Have you ever seen a machine gun, tiger? -- ilyas
                    \_ Have you ever been with a woman?
                       \_ Come now, BDG, you should be able to sense
                          WomanDoom <tm> a mile away without asking. -- ilyas
        \_ yes I typed bridge. In fact I simply pasted from the web site.
           Whoever changed bridge to bride, do you actually think it is
           funny? I think you're just immature                  -op
        \_ Whoever changed the spelling has no sense of humor.  Restored.  That
           sort of thing simply isn't funny.  Restored.  -!op
2004/6/11-7/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30759 Activity:high
6/11    German artillery, German artillery is the best!
        \_ Incorrect.  Artillery was actually one of the few areas of
           weapons technology in which the Allies were superior in WWII -John
           \_ WWII where we learned that superiour numbers combined with
           \_ before or after the invention of proximty fuse fitted on
              artillery shell?
           \_ WWII where we learned that superior numbers combined with
              superior tactics could overwhelm superior technology even in
              a fortified position.  It's the generals, stupid!
              \_ I heard that a lot from Confederate State of America.
                 \_ You'll note that the Union started winning once they
                    fired their shitty generals and got decent ones.  Good
                    generalship + lots + tech > good generalship.  -John
                    \_ It also helps that a leader who was no military genius
                       would not try to micro-manage the war.  Unwittingly,
                       Hitler helped the Allies in defeating the Germany army.
2004/6/8 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:30659 Activity:nil
6/7     In Band of Brothers this crazy yank runs towards the Germans, runs
        behind the Germans, hides behind a building, then comes back without
        getting shot at all. What the heck was he doing and what did he
2004/6/6-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30641 Activity:very high
6/5     First Wave at Omaha Beach - a recounting by military historian
        S.L.A. Marshall from 1960. A vivid account of D-Day.  Also
        interesting to note that many of the German forces at Normandy
        were POWs (including some Korean) and that had two Panzer
        divisions inland been closer to shore the invasion would have been
        a complete failure.
        \_ ok, i have a stupid question for you military history buffs.  why
           was use of a shield abandonned in the gun era?  Couldn't the groups
           of men coming off the boats have used shields to make a kind of
           "tortoise shell" the way roman soldiers used to do?  obviously it
           woudln't be totally effective, and would hamper returning fire,
           but it seems that in that particular situation it would have made
           a big difference.
           \_ Uh, it's called a tank. You know, the weak ass Sherman tanks.
              \_ More importantly, there were supposed to be tanks right up
                 there in the front, and the soldiers were told to get behind
                 them.  But at Omaha, the tanks pretty much all sank.  There's
                 some show on the history channel about scuba diving down to
                 figure out why the tanks didn't make it, but I didn't catch
                 the conclusions.
                 \_ woah! the tanks are still there?
                 \_ I think that the gist of it was that the tanks were
                    outfitted with a canvass skirt thing to turn them into
                    makeshift boats, but because it was not tested in rough
                    seas, the design was flawed and when they tried using them
                    for real they all got swamped, the motors stalled, and they
                    \_ Here's where the might of the USA lies.  We can
                       afford such costly mistakes and roll on without
                       losing a beat.
                       \_ Heh.  The Soviet Union made much bigger mistakes
                          during WWII than some tanks sinking, but they
                          "rolled on without losing a beat" for quite some
                          time afterward due mostly to sheer numbers.
           \_ Bullets are *much* faster than spears and arrows.  For a shield
              of metal to stop a bullet, it either must be very thick or
              very sloped to deflect the bullet.  A highly sloped shield would
              have to be very large to cover a man, and so would be unwieldly
              to carry.  A thick shield would be far too heavy if it was of any
              decent size.
        \_ awsome site:
                \_ You know, I don't pity people like this, I just laugh
                   at them.  How pathetic.  -John
                \_ Heil! Long live und Vaterlande!
          \_ This is pretty good too, authentic SS recordings:
        \_ The Allied forces were expected far to the northeast, where the
           English channel was narrowest.  Instead, they landed at Normandy.
        \_ The whole "if the two SS panzer divisions had been closer" fact
           is why D-Day was an amazing military victory that we still
           celebrate, unlike say, the Palermo crossings into Italy, which
           were a turkey shoot. The 82nd and 101st's main job was to
           delay by a day or two the arrival of the Panzers on the beach
           front. They succeeded, but at casualty rates approaching 50%.
           Also, a massive disinformation campaign was mounted to
           convince the Germans we were going to land a Pas De Calais,
           which they bit on. So it was a pretty amazing victory all
           the way around.
        \_ Double agents misinformed Germans.  The misinformation campaign
           by the allies worked.  Some general didn't want to wake up
           Hitler either.  The german panzer reserves were only to be
           released by Hitler.
2004/6/4-6 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30618 Activity:very high
6/4     Dear motd, after watching the History Channel, D-Day week specials
        I've developed a fetish/dream where I'm dressed up like a US
        soldier and after liberating the German people I start to have
        lots of sex with gorgeous young German women and I yell out
        "take that you Nazi pussy!". Should I get help?
        \_ Yes, you are delusional.  There are no gorgeous German women.
        \_ s/German/French/g
        \_ Actually that's pretty much what happened.  After VE day, the
           American soldiers were tromping all over Europe fucking, stealing,
           and black marketing their way through post war Europe.  It was a
           good time to be an American soldier.  There's plenty of material
           both written and on the web what post war Europe was like.  It
           wasn't pretty.
           \_ Oh you mean compared to the legions of panzers knocking down
              your shed, your village being herded into the church and
              burned because little Billy took a potshot at Hans the Friendly
              Nazi, being denounced and sent to Auschwitz because after 50
              years your Polack neighbors decide they don't much like Jews
              after all, or being nailed to a barn door by a gang of Soviet
              thugs because your last name is Schmidt?  To the victors belong
              the spoiled young frauleins.  -John
              \_ Are you trying to make some sort of Nazi/Hussein comparison?
                 Just because Hussein killed more of his own people every 6
                 weeks than have died since day 1 of GW2 and the average
                 citizen has more food, electricity and cleaner water than
                 ever before does not excuse forcing a few guys to pile up in
                 a naked pyramid last November 8th or making them wear women's
                 panties on their head.  It is an atrocity of the same level as
                 9/11.  Soros, Citizen-Leader of the Free World, said almost
                 exactly that the other day.  So there you have it.  Americans
                 are like the Soviets and Nazis and the Iraqis are like the
                 Nazi victims (except for the evil Jew, death to them).
              \_ yea, but there is already enough whining by the Jews over
                 the past 50 years, and we already know the soviets are
                 thugs and out for revenge for what the Germans did to them.
                 We need to hear more about American thugs.
                 \_ Yeah, fuck the Jews.  They just turned out to be a bunch
                    of baby killers who all go into the army to kill old women
                    in their sleep and shoot completely innocent civilians
                    just going about their own business and trying to get by
                    under the yoke of oppression!  I think the PLO as a whole
                    should win the Nobel Peace Prize this year with a close
                    runner up for Al Qaeda.  The only good Jew is a right Jew,
                    runner up for Al Qaeda.  The only good Jew is a dead Jew,
                    right brother?
                    \_ "Fuck the Jews, they never vote for us anyway."
                        -James Baker III
                        \_ Yeah, who wants the baby killer vote anyway?
                    \_ These constant "fuck the jews" comments which are
                       obviously posted by someone who, if not actually
                       jewish, is at least rabidly pro-Israel in a pathetic
                       attempt to paint anyone who opposes you as racist are
                       really some of the most disgusting strawman arguments
                       I have ever seen.
                       \_ You almost had it but then it slipped away from you
                          by the end.  I believe that in time you'll get it.
                          If you were around longer or had your eyes or your
                          heart open a little more you would see it was just
                          a bunch of real quotes from real people that have
                          been posted to the motd over the years.  Think about
                          that for a while.  That's the real thing, baby.
                          There is no need to make it up when it's all around.
2004/6/3-4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/Military] UID:30586 Activity:very high
6/3     How many Panzers can the M1 Abram take out? How many ME109s can the
        F22 raptor take out? Just want to see how much we have advanced in
        the past 60 years...
        \_ F22 will take out as many as it is possible to take out
           with the amount of missiles it can carry, then go back to
           its home base unharmed, refuel, rearm, repeat.. For that
           matter, an F16 would probably do the same, and any older
           generation fighter armed with missiles and radars.
           \_ Actually, I've only heard one story of a prop plane
              successfully taking out at jet after WWII.  Something about
              a patrol plane in 'nam where he strapped a missle to his
              landing gear, and used it to shoot down a MiG that had been
              harrassing him.
        \_ M1a3 vs panzers: all of them until it runs out of shells.  The
           panzer can't penetrate the M1's hull at any reasonable range.
           F22 vs ME109: all of them until the F22 runs out of ammo.  The
           ME109 can't see it, can't catch it, can't target it, and will go
           down in flames while the F22 is still miles away.
           \_ Furthermore, on the tank front, a lot of people don't
              realize that WWII tanks couldn't shoot with any accuracy
              while moving, and would have a pretty hard time hitting a
              moving target.  An M1a3, on the other hand, can hit a rat
              from a mile away while going 60mph.  So even if the pazers
              got close enough, they'd still be toast.
           \_ This poster is just right.  Recall the two wars in Iraq.
              They conclusively demonstrated that the side with the
              better weapons, not the side with more, will win in open
              warfare.  Sadly, our gov't is buying more weapons rather
              than investing in next-generation better weapons.  Consider
              a nation with effective battlefield lasers.  Aircraft will
              suddenly have to fly below the horizon or they'll be shot
              down at the speed of light.  Same with missiles.  Shells.
              Would you rather it be us with the lasers first, or China?
              Write your congressperson.
              \_ The US Navy is investing heavily in laser platforms for ships.
                 China has a long way to go to catch up to the US, I would say
                 20 years would be enough if the US stood still.  America
                 learned the "R&D >>> production" lesson in WWII, when the
                 Tigers were pulling the "kill all Shermans until out of ammo"
                 trick on the Americans.  The flip side of the coin is the
                 Russians, who lost 3 tanks for every 2 german tanks, but
                 were outproducing the Germans 10 to 1. -- ilyas
              \_ The U.S. wants anti-cruise-missile tech.  Whether it's laser
                 or not, we don't care, as long as it works.  Heck, if we
                 could zap Osama from a Predator, I'm sure the military
                 guys would love that too.
              \_ Training and professionalism also played a critical role.
                 T-72s and Mig-29s that Iraq possessed were considered to
                 be quiet formidable tanks and fighter planes respectively
                 when operated by well-trained crews (granted, most of Iraqi
                 weapons were much older than that). I read somewhere that
                 during the Iran-Iraq war the troops on both sides did no make
                 an effective use of the technology that they posessed. For
                 example, the Iraqis didn't use the advanced sights/targeting
                 on their Soviet-made tanks, reducing their effectiveness to
                 WWII era.  Also, both sides tended to hole up their tanks and
                 use them as individual artilery pieces.
        \_ Why do I feel like the Command & Conquer / Rise of Nations /
           Empire Earth forum has suddenly moved here?
           \_ Paradox forums >> all.  Those guys know their history. -- ilyas
        \_ Tank vs tank is measure of RHA.
2004/6/3-4 [Science/Biology, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30584 Activity:high
        Hitler would have killed himself after seeing this report.
        \_ On of the princes of Denmark is married to an asian...
           \_ Yes, we Danes have always been advanced in choosing mates for
              personality, looks, and intelligence.  It's what's kept us
              beautiful all these centuries.  Oh, and helped spread our
              seed all over the world.
                \_ Teutonic knight, +4 hitpoint +4 armor +1 range +1 maneuver
                   \_ Those were Germans.
              \_ nah, in this case it's the asians who are spreading their
                 genes to far flung corners of the world.
2004/6/1 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:30525 Activity:high
6/1     Christopher Hitchens on CSPAN - ardent defender of Iraq
        war.  Admits he's no longer a socialist.
        \_ What do you get when you combine the world saving idiocy
           of the left with violent tendencies of the right?
           \_ the biggest killers of the 20th century were all
              \_ Hitler is leftist?  Uh, yeah.
                 \_ NAZI = Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei
                    Nationl Social German Workers Party.  His political
                    platform was socialist.  He was considered 'rightist'
                    by other Communists because he did not believe a
                    Communist Revolution was necessary to implement
                    socialism / communism.
                    \_ Oh BS. You are going to tell us next Robespierre was
                       a modern progenitor of the Republican Party
                       because he called himself a Republican.
                       Did Hitler believe in giving ownership of the
                       means of production to the workers? No.
                       Doh! I have just been trolled...
                       \_ Then please dispute this:
                          A Little Secret About the Nazis
                          \_ How can I hope to dispute with a man who brings up
                             universal free education as proof of evil?
                             \_ The article addresses the Nazi's political
                                ideology - factually refute it or don't
                                waste my time.
              \_ The capitalists have starved to death far
                 more people than the communists, but since
                 no one person is in charge, the blame is
                 diffuse. How many have died because there
                 no profit to be made in keeping them alive?
                             \_ this is your reply - capitalism is
                                evil?  Spoken like a true red-diaper
                                baby.  Move to North Korea twit.
                                \_ I notice you didn't answer the question.
                                   \_ Because it is a stupid question.
                                      Where/ who are you talking about?
                                      \_ I answered this already, but you
                                         wrote over my changes. See below
                                         for most of it.
                 \_ What is this supposed to mean?  This seems to be all
                    accusation and no substance.  Are you claiming African
                    famine is all the fault of capitalists, or what?
                    \_ Since the European colonialists set the conditions
                       in place for the famines and then did nothing once
                       they occurred, even though they clearly had the
                       power to stop them, yes, I believe they are the
                       ones primarily responsible. If you are going to
                       (quite rightly, I feel) pin 1920s famine on Stalins
                       collectivization of the Kulaks, you should lay blame
                       on the head of the Western European colonialists
                       where it properly lies as well.
              \_ When you get into real extremes, the difference between
                 "right" and "left" is pretty much academic.  Tyranny is
                 \- it is commonly claimed that what is important is structure
                    [in this case extremeism] and ideology more or less dis-
                    solves. in other words fascism and communism end up looking
                    pretty similar as totalitaian systems. while this is partly
                    true, it's not true across the board. see e.g. "anatomy
                    of fascism" by r. paxton. you can seach motd archive for
                    more on this well trop topic. --psb
2004/5/31 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30508 Activity:insanely high
5/31    Memorial Day question. Rather than launching D-Day, invading
        Der Vatherland, and getting thousands and thousands of our GIs killed
        (esp. on Omaha Beach), why didn't we just strike a deal with the
        Axis in order to save more lives? What exactly did we gain from
        unconditional surrender? German gold? (not really) German art? (no)
        German women? (maybe) German technology? (yes)
        \_ Part of it was prior commitments to the Russians.  The Allies were
           trying to prevent the Eastern Front from collapsing.
           Of course you may argue that by 1944, it wasn't going to collapse
           regardless of what the Allies did.  Part of it was probably
           realpolitik considerations -- the cost of invading Europe was
           deemed acceptable given the influence the US would achieve in the
           post-war world on the continent.  The US didn't want to leave the
           entire Europe to the Russians.  You may note the US never invaded
           Japan -- the costs outweighed the benefits there. -- ilyas
           \_ Ummm... we were sure PLANNING to invade Japan, the only
              reason we didn't was because to A-bomb worked so well.
              \_ Of course we did.  I claim the US would not have invaded even
                 without the A-bomb.  The US would have negotiated a surrender.
                 The invasion was simply not worth it.  Invasion planning is
                 something the military guys do, because it is their job.
                 The call of whether to invade or not rests with the politicians
                 and if their heads are on straight, they make the right call.
                   -- ilyas
                   \_ The US was not just planning but was going through all
                      the motions required to do so.  I know guys who were
                      in holding areas waiting for the final word to load up
                      in boats and head to the main land.  They wrote their
                      letters home and expected to die until it was called
                      off after the bomb was dropped.
                   \_ DAMN STRAIGHT!!  Actually, I don't think it's clear
                      either way.  It bothers me that 99% of people are
                      certain that the A-BOMB was neccesary to end the war.
                      I think it's an open question with valid points on
                      either side.
                      \_ There are different ways to end a war.  Some are
                         better than others.  A simple cessation of fighting
                         without a change in leadership like post-WWI Germany
                         only sets everyone up for round 2.
                 \_ It all depends on whether Japan/Germany would be
                    willing to surrender. Threat of invasion made for a
                    stronger case. So did the defeat of Germany.
                 \_ I respectfully disagree.  As I recall, the Japanese
                    had already offered to surrender, on the condition
                    that the Emperor be allowed to keep his position.
                    However, removing the emperor and forcing him to admit
                    his not-godhood is basically what permenantly
                    destroyed the Japanese empire.  It's kinda like what
                    would happen to the middle east if we could kick
                    Mohammed's butt and force him to admit that he isn't
                    really a prophet. There just wouldn't be much reason
                    to fight anymore.
                     \_ How long has this been up here?  This is wrong.
                        There is *still* a Japanese emporer.  The Japanese
                        had *not* offered to surrender.  After the bombs were
                        dropped, they surrendered WITH the above condition
                        (that the emprorer be allowed to keep his position).
                        Jeesh, and the guy below thinks that everyone here
                        should know why we launched D-Day. -phuqm
                        \_ You should.  It was only one of the most important
                           military and possibly non-military history events
                           in the last 100+ years.  It only formed the world
                           as we know it today.  Maybe you think who Britney
                           is dating is more important?
                        \_ Wow phuqm.  I'm really impressed you signed
                           your name to a statement showing such amazing
                           ignorance.  Offer of Japanese surrender
                           rejected: Note that it
                           mentions that the Emporer would be subject to
                           the American military commander.  The Emperor
                           surrendered UNCONDITIONALY after the A-bomb.
                           In other words, he gave up the throne.
                           MacArthur allowed him to continue as emperor,
                           but the magic was gone.  Now he was just some
                           dude. So, in conclusion, there is still
                           an emperor, but he is no longer a demi-god.
        \_ Is this a lame troll or are you just a product of the American
           edjumuhkayshunal system?
        \_ Because after spending years villifying the Germans and Japanese
           in an attempt to cajole the United States public into believing
           that WWII was a just cause, FDR became a victim of his own
           propaganda. There was just no way politically that the United
           States would have accepted less than victory over "the Hun"
           especially when it seemed so close at hand.
           \_ well said well said.  everything above is boring junk
              until this.
2004/5/29-30 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30495 Activity:high
5/30    Are you a Joo, ilyas?
        \_ Why are you asking this on motd?  can't you just email him?
           \_ Because he wants to whole motd to see the danger of the Joo
              problem!  d0 j00 5p33k 1337?
                \_ Rotten Sie alle Juden, den ist die abschliende sung aus!
                 \_ why the hell didn't anyone delete this offensive
                    WW2 pro-Nazi propaganda slogan?     -offended Jew
                    \_ slogans are not offensive.  people are.  by leaving it
                       others can see how offensive the person is and thus
                       dismiss their message.  -not at all offended Jew
        \_ Einstein once remarked that if his theory of relativity works,
           Germany will claim he is German, and France will claim he is a
           citizen of the world, whereas if it doesn't work, France will
           claim he is German, and Germany will claim he is a Jew.  I guess
           what I am trying to say is, no one should care what I am. -- ilyas
2004/5/24-25 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30401 Activity:moderate
        I noticed that Nazi propaganda prints like to use this sharp,
        peculiar looking font. What font is that called?
        \_ Times Third-Reich
        \_ Bush = Hitler!
           \_ Why do you hate white people?
           \_ Don't be silly. Hitler was nowhere close to evil as Bush.
                  \_ Hitler bang?
                  \_ Why do you hate Hitler??
        \_ Zapf Vergeltungswaffebats
2004/5/24-25 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:30400 Activity:high
5/24    John the Native German Speaker, teach us German please. Teach us
        a few words, like "You look beautiful today" or "I like your dress."
        Heil John! Heil!
        \_ ?
        \_ Just learn some Yiddish.
2004/5/8-10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:30100 Activity:high
5/8     There's a part in Band of Brothers part 2 I don't understand. This
        guy parachutted, landed, and saw another guy and asked him where
        he's from-- Eugene, Oregon, only 10 miles from where the other guy
        lives, and the 2 guys started fraternizing. Then his leader told
        them to not fraternize with the enemy. Moments later we hear the
        machine gun and I'm guessing that the guy from Eugene OR got killed.
        So who is he suppose to be, a Nazi spy?
        \_ Nah, an American with relatives in Germany who decided to fight
           for Gemany rather than the US.  There's really nothing very
           complicated about it.
        \_ Right after he said he was from Eugene, OR, he was asked why he
           was doing fighting for the Germans, and he explained.  How'd you
           miss that?
                \_ yeah I don't know maybe cuz my gf was talking talking
                   talking and not appreciating the film. anyways why would
                   an American fight for Germany, is this common in WW2?
                   \_ he was an American-born German.  It's not so
                   \_ And you didn't slap her face?
                      \_ I don't think it was her face he was slapping when
                         the film was done....
                         \_ unless it was with his ... yeah, nm
                            \_ Well, I mean, if he was using his hand, what
                               else could he have been slap--...err, yeah, nm
        \_ If you read a bit of history and realized when Germany started
           attacking people vs. when the USA entered WWII it might dawn
           on you that perhaps he joined dur fathalande before Amerikkka
           entered the fight.
2004/5/6 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:30057 Activity:high
5/6     If Congress approves the $25 Billion request from Bush for the Iraq
        War, total costs so far will equal $174 billion.  Contrast this with
        WWI which cost $199 billion in 2002 dollars.  How much was WWII?  I'm
        wondering how much it will take to equal all spending on all our
        wars in the 20th century, minus the Cold War of course.
        \_ Maybe stuff costs a lot more now than during the 40's even when you
           adjust for inflation?  I don't know, just a thought.
           Also, we are paying to rebuild a country.  I think the WWI cost
           is just to cost of defeating the German army.  Also, our military
           used less equipment back then than it does now.
           \_ Definitely, but it doesn't subtract from the enormity of the cost.
              The invasion and occupation has cost the same as the cost to
              police all the streets, administer all the laws, in every
              jurisdiction of the entire United States for a year.
        \_ In WW1, America didn't take the brunt of fighting. The French
           took the most. Started 1914, America joins 1917 after a slow
           buildup of diplomatic incidents. Armistice 1918. Versailles
           treaty sets up WW2. USA didn't occupy Germany.
        \_ GPS bombs cost a lot more than dumb bombs.  Also, casualties are a
           lot lower, partially due to the high-tech stuff.
2004/5/4 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:29989 Activity:high
5/3     Attention 3d 1st person shooter gamerz: Battlefield Vietnam, yay or
        nay?                      -BF1942 dude, alias "Nazi killing machine"
        \_ I'm waiting for the truly accurate military video game where you
           lay around terrified 98% of the time ... and then get insta-maimed/
           killed by a sniper or pipe-bomb.
        \_ BFV is much more immersive than BF1942.  Plus infantry actually
           stand a chance against tanks and helis.  The terrain is beautiful.
           \_ but should they stand a chance?  against a heli?  please....
              \_ With a Stinger, sure they should. If you want game
                 balance + realism, make stingers easy to obtain.
           \_ Well, this improves game balance.  All you have to do is whip
              out your RPK or M60 and start belting it out.  When they realize
              they are being shot at, they have to turn around, find you,
              aim their chopper at you and shoot.  Oh and in that time, you
              get to find a place to hide.  Most people are crappy chopper
              pilots and are not resourceful enough to pickup other players
              to act as door gunners.
        \_ I'm still waiting for Battlefield: Iraq
           \_ uh, desert sucks?
              \_ No!  Urban guerilla warfare!
           \_ it's been done in BF1942, the Red Army field (forgot the name)
              It's a nasty terrain.
2004/4/26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:13391 Activity:nil
4/26    I don't understand this whole Axis deal. I mean, what does Germany
        have in common with Japan? Food? Language? Georgraphic location?
        No, no, no, and no! What the heck were Hitler/Hiro thinking?
        \_ They both believed in dominating "inferior" peoples by force
           of arms for "living space", and exterminating/experimenting on
           said "inferior" people.  Natural allies.
           \_ Sorta like the Europeans and the Native Americans?
              \_ Dang straight.  Only problem with the theory was
                 that they tried on superior people.
                 \_ Wow, the motd is full of intelligent people....  This
                    reminds me of one post that said that the (west) indians
                    created thanksgiving to show their gratitude and another
                    that implied that westerners came here only to tax the
                    locals, and I believe they weren't joking or sarcastic.
                 \_ "they" = the axis?  The axis was kicking the allies ass
                    and only lost because Hitler micro managed his superbly
                    top notch generals.
                    \_ The allies' breaking of communication codes was also
                       a big factor against both Japan and Germany. And
                       the battle of britain. But if it had gone on much
                       longer I guess Germany would've gotten nuked. Actually
                       Hitler personally helped screw the BoB too by switching
                       to pointlessly bombing London.
        \_ the "Axis" was Germany and Italy; Japan joined later.
        \_ The heat is unbearable, and you are not helping.
           \_ What do you mean, I'm not helping?
        \_ The axis are the bad guys, like the "axis of evil".  The good guys
           are the allies.  Mysterious evil strangers in a foreign land
           who would compromise the American Dream?  Axis.
           \_ Germany and Italy made up the name themselves.
              \_ If we want to be anal, the URL below says Hungary came up
                 with "axis" first for Italy, Germany, and Hungary, but no
                 one used it.  Mussolini popularized it, and he used axis to
                 mean Germany and Italy.  Then in 1940 there was a
                 "Three-Power Pact" which included Japan; all three
                 countries would cooperate "to establish and maintain a new
                 order of things".  Probably Roosevelt at some point decided
                 to start throwing around "Axis powers".
           \_ Wrongo, boyo.
              \_ While the historical origin of "axis" is such, the usage
                 as applied today is as originally stated
                 \_ Useless dodging.  We're all too smart for that.
                    \_ I'm not sure what point we're arguing, but
                       I did post something above ("If we want to be anal").
        \_ They were both running up against the British empire and the US.
           The Brits and Americans and French were screwing around all over
           Asia. It's the same kind of alliance as France-Russia, where they
           have a mutual enemy between them but no possible conflicts.
           \_ There were liberators and opponents of the British hegemony.
2004/3/11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:12624 Activity:very high 80%like:12625
3/11    Did Germany ever have a chance of winning WWII?
        \_ Not after both the USA and USSR were involved, and after the USSR
           brought the German offensive to a stop. But before that happened,
           there were many possibilities that could have led to either victory
           or a peace arrangement by Germany. Without the USSR front, against
           just USA and Britain it seems like ultimately it still would have
           come down to Germany losing the air war, unless the Japan war went
        \_ No. While they had superior technology, US had superior production
           power and relatively unlimited raw materials. The Yanks were
           cranking out their inferior Sherman tanks at a rate of 10-20X
           greater than the superior Panzer tanks, and even though 1 Panzer
           tank could take out about 3-4 Sherman tanks, it's the overwhelming
           number that wins. Same with P47/P51 vs. ME109s, etc. Germany
           attempted cheap/fast production towards the end of the war
           like the Volksjager but by then most of the German aces were dead
           and the Hitler Youths were too young to know how to fight.
                \_ same with the Chinese army. They have inferior weapons
                   but pushed into Korea with their fearless swarm of men.
                   \_ HA.  The main problem with the Chinese army (if you
                      mean the Nationalists) wasn't equipment but leadership.
                      Read "Stilwell and the American Experience in China"
                      by Tuchman if you care.
                      \_ Stilwell has a very one-sided view of things.
                         He is a military man, but had no idea of the
                         political side of things.
                         \_ Tuchman's political analysis in the book is
                            convincing.  Chiang Kai Shek was fundamentally
                            \_ Chiang Kai Shek has a very weak hand to
                               \_ If Chiang Kai Shek had been a better
                                  politician and advocated some things
                                  like land reform, he probably would
                                  have beaten Mao. He just refused
                                  to compromise.
                                  \_ fat hopes.  CKS power base was
                                     in the coastal cities.  He had
                                     tenuous control over just a
                                     small part of China, and that
                                     was before the Japanese invaded
                                     and took that away.  And never
                                     underestimate the power of the
                                     idea of communism at that point
                                     in history, especially in a
                                     peasant society like China.
                                     Stilwell wants Chiang to fight
                                     the Japanese.  That's would be
                                     a dumb move.
                                     \_ Communism is ill suited for a peasant
                                        society whether in practice or in
                                        ideology.  Mao practiced and won with
                                        something else.
                                        \_ it didn't matter.  by the
                                           time the peasants realize
                                           that, the war was long over.
                                  \_ CKS had a very small army
                                     reasonably equiped (but far
                                     inferior to the Japanese) under
                                     his control.  The rest are
                                     ragtag troops pulled off the
                                     street.  There are also
                                     some warlords / generals
                                     fighting under his banner, but
                                     the troops under these people
                                     are loyal to these people, not
                                     to CKS.  They are often
                                     from the same province, etc.,
                                     and CKS could not ignore
                                     the views and interests of
                                     these warlords / generals.
                                     Outsiders way overestimated
                                     CKS's power.
                   \_ Germans had very good weapons.  Just not enough.
           \_ if they didn't attack Russia, maybe Germany would have
              consolidated their conquests.
           \_ if the Germans delayed enough, they could have had nuclear
              \_ Frankly, My person take is that if Nazi didn't
                 1. attack russia, and 2. killing Jews, I really think they
                 got the chance to win.  I don't know if you noticed,
                 a lot of nuclear bomb scientist are jews escaped from Nazi's
                 \_ Yeah, but without their racist ideas about Jews and
                    Slavs, it wouldn't have been Nazi Germany, it would
                    have been something more rational. Something more
                    rational would not have tried to conquer the world
                    against overwhelming odds.
                    \_ if they restricted themselves to a part of Europe
                        (like Poland and France), Hitler probably would
                        have had a longer career.
        \_ Possibly.  The most interesting counterfactual here is whether
           Stalin would have attacked had Hitler not.  Hitler believed Stalin
           was going to come get him once his military machine was up and
           running.  This was one of his main reasons for going in 1941 and
           surprising the hell out of the Red Army.  Stalin would have probably
           gone after Germany if he perceived weakness.  A fully rational
           policy on the part of Hitler would have taken all of Europe west
           of Poland and east of Great Britain, and stopping there, making it
           a very tough nut for Stalin to crack.  Russians had a hell of a
           time with the Finns, and Germans would have been 10 times worse.
           On the other hand, the Russians learned a lot from the Winter War.
           However, Hitler had other obsessions (autarky, jews, bolsheviks)
           which prevented rational policy.  Hitler also wasn't very smart.
             -- ilyas
           \_ I'm glad Hitler wasn't very smart -- he attacked Russia.
              But Stalin isn't that great either.
              \_ Stalin was regarded as brilliant by everyone who had
                 much dealing with him:
                 \_ Stalin was a stupid peasant.  He was, however, unusually
                    ruthless, which explains his long tenure.  When the
                    Germans invaded in 1941 he disappeared for two weeks.  The
                    common theory is that he had a breakdown, and thought it
                    was all over.  The generals eventually convinced him to
                    return and head the war effort (by this time the Germans
                    had overran most of Ukraine and killed or captured many
                    millions of Red Army soldiers).  This link cites a bunch
                    of russian generals who knew better than to say something
                    other than what they said.  Also, the progressive labor
                    party's website?  Give me a break.  Ask a russian historian
                    instead. -- ilyas
                    \_ So Ilya, would you attribute Stalingrad simply to the
                       Russian soldiers solid unwillingness to give in?
                       \_ Stalingrad was the first time Stalin let Zhukov
                          handle the operation.  Stalin's big personal growth
                          during WWII consisted of realizing he should let the
                          professionals do their job (something Hitler never
                          learned).  Russian soldiers did many heroic things
                          during WWII, even considering the monstrous
                          compulsion imposed on them by the NKVD.
                          Nevertheless, Stalingrad was an operational, rather
                          than a tactical success.  People keep talking about
                          the street fighting, but the key to the operation
                          was the pincer maneuver which surrounded Paulus.
                          This was not something the Red Army could have pulled
                          off in 1941. -- ilyas
                 \_ I wasn't talking about Stalin as a military man.
                    I was talking about his human rights record.
           \_ frankly, I don't know who is more dumb, Hitler's obsession with
              bolsheviks, or our obsessioon with communism for the next 40
              years after Hitler is defeated.
              \_ Well, both Hitler and the US had legitimate concerns about
                 communism, since it was a bit of a hegemonising swarm object.
                 However, Hitler went further (and off the deep end) than
                 good policy dictated.  Whether the US policy of containment
                 was wise, or there was a better idea is still an open
                 question.  -- ilyas
                 \_ ilya, you deleted my comment.  You bad man! --ann coulter
                    \_ Not on purpose. -- ilyas
                    \_ Use motdedit and your stuff won't get deleted (as much).
                       \_ Dunno about that.  I did use motdedit.  It still got
                          deleted.  I'm pretty sure motdedit goes in the Kool
                          Aid category.  --ann coulter
        \_ maybe, but they lost so whats the point in discussing it now?
           \_ some people are interested in topics like this.
        \_ c.f. "war on two fronts"
           \_ If they didn't attack Russia, maybe they would have
              held on to more of Europe.
        \_ Hitler went in against a Sicilian when death was on the line.
        \_ Why so much random censorship on this thread?
        \_ Yes. Forget all of the BS about Russia and the second front. If
           Japan had managed to put down an invasion force in Hawaii, the
           US would never have approved a "Europe first policy."
           \_ very interesting thought.
2004/3/4-5 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:12516 Activity:nil
4/3     Republican Congressman Godwins himself! (radio news link)
        \_ Someone should remind Mr. Cole that for a long time before our
           entry into WWII, many Americans did indeed support Hitler.
           \_ "Many"?  Bullshit.  There are always stupid people in large
              groups.  I'd *love* to see you cite the term "many".
        \_ "Cole is quoted as asking what Hitler might have thought had
            Franklin Roosevelt not been re-elected in 1944."
           The difference being that Roosevelt was a Democrat and a social
           \_ And a war monger who got us into WWII on a pretext that caused
              the lost of hundreds of American lives and a big chunk of the
              U.S. Navy.
        \_ I also don't think the Japanese were too thrilled one way or another
           when Churchill got ousted in April '45.
2004/2/26-27 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:12425 Activity:kinda low
2/26    Panzer/Tiger > T34 > Sherman
        \_ Thank you for that well-reasoned piece of historical analysis.
           \_ I'm encouraging discussion.
              \_ Each individual tank was better, but because the Sherman
                 was mass produced in a way the Panzer was not, it could
                 be produced in 5X quantities. Was the Panzer better than
                 5 Sherman's?
                 \_ you are right. one on one, Panzer > Shermans.
                    But Shermans were mass-produced and tactics had to change.
                    Which tank would you rather be in?
                    \_ None.  They were all death traps.
                    \_ I would prefer to be in a Panther. Good gun,
                       good mobility, reliable. I hear some are still
                       in use today in Africa.
                    \_ The Germans called Shermans "Tommycookers" because they
                       easily caught fire.  There are documented cases of a
                       Tiger decimating multiple Shermans, without retaliation
                       (Sherman shells just bounced off).  America placed
                       production over R&D as a priority for their tank
                       program in the 30s.  This unfortunate oversight cost
                       many American lives early in 1944.  It took almost a
                       year for American tanks to become useful (they were
                       never very good in WWII).  Americans won their battles
                       with excellent supplies, overwhelming air superiority,
                       and general Patton, not with tanks.  -- ilyas
                       never very good in WWII). -- ilyas
        \_ What was that gianormous German tank that they only built a few of?
           \_ Maus.  It was far bigger than the King Tiger, but never saw
              service.  Even King Tigers (or even normal Tigers) were often
              used as stationary artillery by the retreating German forces.
              Incidentally, while the Panther was a better tank than the T-34,
              it had two major problems.  One was the much greater complexity,
              which made it difficult to repair damaged Panthers (or keep
              undamaged ones operational).  Another was
              the relatively narrow tracks (compared to the wide T-34 tracks)
              which made mobility on poor roads in Russia much much worse.
              The Panther was also very expensive and lavishly made.  By the
              time it entered service, Germany's priority should have been
              stamping out as many tanks as possible, as cheaply and quickly
              as possible, like the Russians were doing.
              T-34 was the better tank, per unit of resource.
                -- ilyas
           \_ King Tiger? They made 485 of them. They were basically
              unstoppable until they ran out of fuel.
              \_ Why?  Longer range?
                 \_ They had really thick sloped armor and a gun that
                    could take out any other tank at a range of 2km.
                    But even point blank, the Sherman could just not
                    penetrate the King Tiger armor. The best the
                    allies could hope to do was detrack it.
           \_ Maybe you mean The Maus, that they only made two prototypes
              of. They were 180 Tons and never saw combat.
           \_ there was the Tiger I and the Tiger II (King Tiger)
2004/2/11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:12213 Activity:moderate
2/11    You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of a sudden-
        \_ What one?
           \_ What?
              \_ What desert?
                 \_ It doesn't make any difference what desert, it's
                    completely hypothetical.
                    \_ It does matter which desert. I want to know if I find
                    \_ But how can I be there?
                       \_ Maybe you're fed up, maybe you want to be by
                          yourself, who knows?
                 \_ Free Palestine! Push the Israelis into the sea!
                    \_ Go to hell, you anti-semite!
                       \_ Hitler, Hitler, Hitler!
                          \_ Quirk's Exception: Intentional invocation of this
                             so-called "Nazi Clause" is ineffectual.
        You look down and you see a tortoise, it's crawling toward you-
        \_ Tortoise? What's that? urlP
           \_ Know what a turtle is?
              \_ Of course.
                 \_ Same thing.
                    \_ I've never seen a turtle. But I understand what you
        You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back.
        \_ Do you make up these questions, or do they write them down for you?
           \_ They're just questions. In answer to your query, they're
              written down for me. It's a test, designed to provoke an
              emotional response.
                \- do you use different questions for non-whites? -psb
              \_ RIDE BIKE! USE LINUX!
        \_ I use magic missile on the darkness!
           \_ lightning bolt!  /csua/tmp/other-larpers.mpeg
        The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun
        beating its legs trying to turn itself over but it can't, not without
        your help, but you're not helping.
        \_ What do you mean I'm not helping?
           \_ I mean, you're not helping. Why is that?
              \_ The tortoise should help itself.  If it can't, it's weak
                 and deserves to die.
                 \_ Well, you know what Stalin said about tortoises.
                    \_ "I don't care.  I want one.  In my soup.  Now."
                    \_ Bad troll, no cookie.
                 \_ Stop overwriting my posts!
                    \_ Use motdedit like the rest of us.
                       \_ 'Like the rest of us'?  You mean all two of you?
                          Get serious.
                       \_ Never!
                          \_ Then tough.
        Shall we continue? Describe in single words, only the good things
        that come in to your mind about: your mother.
        \_ My mother?
           \_ Yeah.
              \_ Let me tell you about my mother.
              \_ Let me tell you about yermom.
        \_    j_gurli3: i start unbuttoning ur shirt.
              bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't wear shirts.
              j_gurli3: No, ur not really a Rhinocerus silly, it's just part of
                        the game.
              bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't play games. They f*cking charge
                          your ass.
2004/1/17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:11814 Activity:nil
1/16    Food for thought: If Hitler had won WW2, Bush would be saying
        "The Evil Allies" instead of "The Evil Axis". Yet another useless
        thought provided you by Motd of the Day.
        \_ If Hitler had won, there wouldn't be a US govt, right?
           \_ Depends.  The odds that Germany could have actually taken over
              the entire world was rather minimal.  They just didn't have
              enough men.  If you don't have an armed soldier standing on a
              piece of land, you don't control it.  More likely, the US and
              Germany would have ended up in a stalemate where neither could
              cross the oceans to do any serious harm until technology had
              advanced a great deal.  You'd have a German/US Cold War instead
              of a USSR/ US one.  Hitler would eventually have been
              assassinated or dropped dead and someone less psychotic would
              take over and the German Empire would fall apart, a la the USSR.
              History has a funny way of staying the same even in what-if?
              \_ Sometimes one wonders which would have been an easier bad
                 guy: USSR or the Axis states...
2003/12/24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/Military] UID:11579 Activity:high
12/23   Regards to Nurenberg Trial.  Nurenberg is just an instrument for
        the victors to humilate and extract values from the defeated enemy.
        This is why none of the Allie forces ever got tried for the atrocity
        they commited.  This includes looting of Nazi treasury and art
        collection (which still sits in the National Archive in Washingon DC),
        as well as  includes nuclear bombing, fire bombing,
        and all the carpet bombing we performed on civilians.

        This is also the reason why some of the Nazi units, noticebly the
        African Corp and the Nazi Navy, who fought the war with extremely
        high degree of professionalism, also got tried and convicted by
        the Nurenberg.

        This is also the reason why Emporer of Japan, who ultimately
        started the Asian front of World War 2, didn't get tried as a
        war criminal.  Ridiculously, last emperor of China was tried
        as a war criminal for being a puppet of Japanese Empire.

        Then, there is the story of Unit 731 of Japanese Army, who used
        civilians and POWs to test chemical/biological weapon.None of them
        were even tried because they made a deal with USA.  In exchange for
        their freedom, they gave USA  the test results of these chemical/
        biological weapon experiments using human subjects.

        There is nothing perplex about Nurenberg once you accept the fact
        that it is nothing more than instruement to enhance US and British
        interest.   If you try to think in the line of administering justice,
        then you will have serious problems.
                        -- a Chinese who has no sympathy toward Japan,
                           but still think nuclear bombing is wrong.
        \_ To the victor, go the spoils.  So fucking what?  And as far as
           American still thinking of China as a subject state, again, so
           fucking what?  If it was the other way around, the Chinese wouldn't
           be sitting around wondering how they can sell us more Big Macs.
           They'd have destroyed our country and our children right through
           college would be learning about how the Great Leader Mao saved us
           from our Imperalist Oppressors and it only cost us DC, LA, and
           Chicago, but hey they were all bastions of evil capitalists anyway.
           Take your Chinese troll to some place that gives a shit.  When
           you're a citizen you can vote and then your opinion will matter
           to someone.  Or you can go home and vote there, but, oh no, wait,
           sorry, you can't vote there.  No one can vote there.
           \_ Of course you can vote there, moron!  You can vote "yes" or
           \_ Yes you can vote there, moron!  You can vote "yes" or "yes".
        \_ Can you elaborate on the Nazi units with extremely high degree of
           professionalism part?  Thx.
                \_ think he means no rampage of killing, no sniper, no
                   sabotage, etc, that they fought according to the book &
                   followed the Geneva Convention of treating US soldiers
                   with respect.
                   \_ Heh.  Snipers are unprofessional now?
                      Are you on crack?  Should we go back to the civil war
                      era of gentleman wars where people marched around in
                      tightly packed formations, and targetting officers
                   with respect.
                      was considered poor sportsmanship?  wtf
        \_ Frankly as an American with both of my grandfather's fighting in
           in WWII I don't give a fuck what you think.  That said, in the
           battle for Okinawa over 250,000 died.  Extrapolate those numbers
           to Kyushu and then the home island...
           Japan had its entire Army intact in China, and the
           Soviets were days from entering the war.  Had they, Japan and
           China would likely still be partitioned like the Koreas.
           Furthermore it was impractical to move the millions of needed
           troops out of Europe because of the Soviet threat.  One could
           go on and on...
           \_ Partition was unnecessary.  It end up being partitioned
              as result of USA and USSR splits the spoils of the war,
              treating the Chinese as nothing more than their Imperialistic
              subjects.  This mentality still exist today in the mind of
2003/12/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:29713 Activity:nil
12/12   M$ Latest Patch:
2003/12/10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:11388 Activity:high
12/9    If you dont' support us, you don't get the contract:
        This is all good except USA is panhandling the very same
        nations which USA left out for reconstruction fund *AND*
        debt restrucuring.
        \_ Fuck em, if reconstructing their countries after WWII
           and footing the defense bill for the entire Cold War was
           not enough, let them rot in their socialists
           constructs. Next time they need help...
           \_ Err ... didn't know US helped reconstruct Russia
              after WWII, and helped Russia during Cold War.
              Must have been reading the wrong history books.
                \_ Russia refused Marshall plan aid;  it was offered.  Sent
                   billions worth of war material during WWII;  in return,
                   got its pilots interned.  The US also sold a bunch of
                   nuclear reactors and massive amounts of food to the USSR
        `          during the cold war.  Get over yourself.
                   And you, you illerate baboon, learn to troll.  I'm
                   disappointed, bad show.  1941, after years of lend-lease,
                   hardly counts as "very late".  I guess I should blame
                   the stellar chicom educational system for your poor grasp
                   of history and English grammar.  Idiot. _
              Must be reading the wrong histroy books.
                   \_ declared war in 1941, only after attacked.  not in
                      Africa until 1943.  By then Soviet Union already
                      won the war, with wermacht on full retreat in the
                      eastern front.  Me chicom?  Nah, me front line
                      troops against chicom unlike US stay home slackers
                      like yourself.
           \_ US is a fucking slacker during WWII, didn't
              join the fight against facism until very late.
              of defense.
              It is US who should thank these countries for
              serving as its front line troops and first line
              of defense.
              \_ Rest of the world is fucking slacker now, didn't join the
                 fight against religious fundamentalism at all. It is the
                 rest of the world who should thank the US for taking the
              \- this is consistent with why i felt the UN should tell the US
                 "we have no interest in bailing you out" ... you got yourself
                 into the swamp, now you can pay for it with your blood,
                 treasure and possibly electoral votes. --psb
2003/12/1-2 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:29679 Activity:nil
12/1    Who gave the names "Axis" and "Allies"? I mean, do Nazis and Japs
        call themselves "Axis"? or they call themselves something nicer?
        \_ The term Axis was first used by Hitler in one of his speeches.
           \_ 1936 Italian-German mutual assistance pact, "Rome-Berlin axis."
              Expanded later to Rome-Berlin-Tokyo axis.  Remember that early
              on, Hitler feared and respected Mussolini (who for example
              forced him to ditch his ambitions on Austria in 1935.)  So
              this was the first of a series of alliances geared towards
              safeguarding the Hun from threats to his flank.  -John
        \_ I think they called themselves the Eigenvector.
           \_ Eigenvolk, eigenreich, eigenvector!
              \_ Eigenhower.
        \_ I think it's just politics. For example what we used to call
           Afghan Freedom Fighters are now called Terrorists, Mujahadins,
           Evil Axis (coined by GWB), etc. I'm guessing most of the names
           are given by politicians, nothing else.
2003/11/28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:11254 Activity:moderate
11/27   I just found out that the British decoded German Enigma codes
        and that the Americans decoded Japanese codes. Did the Axis ever
        decode Allied codes?
        \_ There's a statement on record from the chief of Japanese army
           intelligence (Lt. Gen. Seizo Arisue) that they were unable to
           crack any US codes.  There are some decent histories of Abwehr
           activities in this area;  David Alvarez (bibliography at
  has done a lot of work in this area.
           Also:  -John
                \_ so besides numerical superiority, they also had
                   crypto superiority? The thing is, I saw a documentary
                   where the Brits decoded every single message towards
                   the end of the war and knew every single German troop
                   movement. The same goes for U.S. which assassinated
                   Yamamoto because they knew where he was flying. However,
                   the documentary never talked if the Axis powers ever
                   decoded their messages.
                   \_ The German infantry/pilots/spies/technology were
                      superior in many ways. They're more disciplined, more
                      trained, and more experienced than their lazy, kick
           activities in this area, also "Diplomatic Solutions:  German
           Foreign Office Cryptanalysis, 1919-1945 by David Alvarez in the
           International Journal of Intelligence and Counterintelligence 9.
           A good bibliography is here: -John
                      backed, football watching beer drinking Americans. The
                      only reason the Allies won was cuz of their mighty
                      production and a few smart code breakers.   -hans
                      \_ Don't forget the Eastern Front, Hans.  Hehe.  -ivan
                         \_ agree.  Without Hitler's obsession with Communism,
                            (something *WE* were obsess with in next 40 years
                             or so), I honest think Hitler was this close to
                            won the war.
                   \_ Yes.  White people >>> Non-white people.  That's your
                      point, right?
                      \_ Germans are white.
                                \_ GOOD ONE!!!
        \_ Wasn't the only unbroken code in WWII, the Native American
           Indians code?  (a movie, Windtalkers, was made about this)
2003/11/21 [Reference/Military, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:11171 Activity:high
11/20   The Germans had the V1/V2 cruise missile and the Japanese had germ and
        chemicals. Rather than bombing London with traditional explosives
        and incendiaries, why didn't they borrow germ/chemical technologies
        on the Brits?
        \_ Oh ignorant one of history, Hitler fondly remembers being attacked
           by chemicla weapons in WWI as measily Corporal and that's one of
           the reasons why he didn't do the same.
        \_ At the end of the war, pounded from all sides, the Axis were
           anything but monolithic.  I am guessing there simply wasn't enough
           communication between Germany and Japan by the time Hitler became
           desperate enough to seriously consider 'miracle weapons' like
           toxins and germs.  Furthermore, even if Japan agreed to make
           available to Germany the results of its germs/toxins programs, there
           would be staggering logistical difficulties in moving the required
           materials to Germany.  Japan had a hard enough time moving oil
           and essential supplies through American bombers and ships.
             -- ilyas
        \_ they needed to have insurance (Nukes) first so there wouldn't be
           any severe retaliation from nukes dropped on Germany.
        \_ chemical warfare has never been really effective and germ warfare
           is very difficult to do right and there's always the worry that
           some bug you release will come back and wipe you out, too.  so
           even if they could've done it, neither was a good plan.
           \_ on battle field, true.  against civilian, you would be suprised
              how effective it is on reducing population.  Japanese at the
              had enough anthrex to kill entire world's population, I heard
              \_ no.  effective dispersal is *very* difficult.  it comes down
                 to this: if you need to get a person into the chemical or germ
                 zone to have an effect, it is cheaper to just bomb them.  if
                 it is some brutal pathogen that spreads easily then you can
                 get wiped out by it, too.  anthrax is a really shitty mass bio
                 weapon, btw.
                 \_ This must be emphasized. Even in WWI, gas attacks were
                    effective primarily because of weather conditions and that
                    soldiers had to stay where they were, in low-lying areas,
                    so they wouldn't get shot. Wind, perciptation, temperature
                    all affect the effectiveness of chem/bio weapons.
                    \_ They'd be even more effective in the case of a high tech
                       force fighting a low tech one, but the western
                       hight-tech armies have sworn to not use them.  Which
                       is a pity considering that most of their battlese these
                       days seem to be against vastly inferior tech-wise
                       opponents. The ineffectiveness of chem weapons in WWI
                       was more one of stupid generals not taking proper
                       advantage of them.  The first use of Chlorine at Ypres
                       caused a breach in the French lines that the Germans
                       didn't bother to exploit.  No weapon is effective in
                       incompetant hands.
                       \_ are you saying they'd be a good weapon against
                          civilians today?  in WWII in London?  it's still
                          way easier to just bomb someone.
                       \_ Ah, I'm guessing you're a "destroy-the-village"
                          kinda guy.
                          \_ when the enemy combatantants are indistinguishable
                             from the village, and/or are supported by the
                             village, is the distinction not blurred?
2003/11/17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:11107 Activity:high
11/17   Why is there not a corollary to Godwin's Law that specifies that
        discussion ends whenever Stalin or Communism is invoked?  They serve
        exactly the same purpose as mentioning Nazis or Hitler: to stifle
        thoughtful discussion and provoke anger.
        \_ you're taking it all too seriously, son.  let it go.
        \_ It's called Niwdog's Rule.
        \_ Nah, in American culture, Hitler==evil. Stalin doesn't evoke much
           of anything. It doesn't matter what he did, it's not part of pop cul-
           ture to know or care about that. It goes back to WW2 when he was an
           ally, hence no propaganda against him. Communism is a big yawn also,
           China is still "communist" and this is not a problem for consumers
           or politicians.
           of anything. It doesn't matter what he did, it's not part of pop
           culture to know or care about that. It goes back to WW2 when he was
           an ally, hence no propaganda against him. Communism is a big yawn
           also, China is still "communist" and this is not a problem for
           consumers or politicians.
2003/10/16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:10653 Activity:nil
10/15   \_
           Hahaha, conservatives LOSE again.
            \_ "After five years of virtual house arrest and secret
                negotiations between Washington and Beijing, Tsien left for
                his homeland in 1955."
                \_ the negotiation was for downed US pilots from the
                   Korean War.
           \_ Yes, because "the conservatives" live in a different world so
              when something bad happens to this country it only hurts them,
              but the american hating crowd has somehow thing crow about.
              Sheesh, whatever.  With or without this guy they'd be in the
              same place.  They'd just have stolen whatever this guy didn't
              learn about the V2 from von Braun.
              \_ Unfortunately, unlike the neanderthals, the "conservatives" still
                 live among us, and their stupidity continues to cost us
                 dearly.  I forgot, what's the name of the idiot whose name
                 is synonymous to the 1950s political witch hunt in the US?
                 \_ Joseph McCarthy.  Ann Coulter idolizes him.  Seriously.
2003/10/7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:10496 Activity:nil
10/7    This is something I don't understand. We killed millions of Japs and
        Germans during WW2, yet after their defeat we don't have records
        of them trying to slaughter us. However, even though we didn't
        kill many Arabs/Muslims, why do they hate us so much and want
        to slaughter us?
        \_ religion can be a funny thing, no?
        \_ Japs?  Why not use "Gerries" and "towel-heads" too?
        \_ Funny how you exaggerate "millions" - the Russian killed way
           many more Germans. It's very simple, the Arabs/Muslims were once
           a proud people in the lead, now they all live under repessive
           theocracy. This is their latest gasp to regain "power" - absent
           any economic power - is hardly power.
2003/10/4-5 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:10470 Activity:nil
10/4    Heh, turns out those Arnie Hitler quotes were made up by his
        ex-business partner who was trying to sell a book.  Time for lots of
        apologies all around on that one.  I don't expect to see any from
        anyone in the media even after above the fold giant headlines.  Maybe
        it'll be a page 9 blurb to correct their misunderstanding.
        \_ Even less reported was when Arnie broke up a neo-nazi gathering
           when he was 16 years old.
        \_ aren't these people legally culpable? also, is it legal to print a
           front page story claiming someone is a Nazi and then putting a tiny
           "correction" buried in the next issue?
           \_ There are some things in life a lawsuit can't correct.  The
              election will be long over and any damage done long before they
              get to court.  Anyway, I doubt he'd win anyway.  We have a very
              free press in this country.
        \_ url?
           \_ Page 9 of the entertainment section of the LA Times this morning.
2003/10/3-4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:10442 Activity:nil
10/3    Any Jews here would like to comment on the Arnie's father being a
        Nazi?  Would you not vote for him because of that?  This sins of
        the father doesn't work in the US.  But I can imagine it working in
        Europe and Asia.
        \_ Sure.  Nothing to do with it.  Voting for Tom anyway.  Arnold isn't
           a conservative.
2003/9/24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:10307 Activity:nil
9/23    German sailors render extraordinary honors to US at sea,50
        \_ Nice.  Thanks for posting that.         -mice
                \_ Yeah nice--didn't they already do it once two years
                    back?  -John
                    \_ Doesn't diminish the gesture any.     -mice
        \_ Maybe every real man wasn't killed in WW2.  The few survivors
           sent their sons to the German navy.
        \_ Very nice.  Previous gesture mentioned above:
2003/7/23-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:29118 Activity:nil
7/23    More academic execellence from Berkeley
        UC BERKELEY STUDY - What do Hitler, Mussolini, Reagan and Rush
        Limbaugh Have in common....
        Too bad Hitler was a socialist.
        \_ Putting a general label like 'socialist' on what passes for
           Hitler's political philosophy is a bit simplistic.  I trust you've
           had a browse through Mein Kampf and a some good work on Nazi
           economic policy in the 1930s to help you come up with that
           statement.  -John
2003/7/15-16 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:29040 Activity:high
7/14    We have a lot of games that kill Nazis and Japs (Medal of Honor,
        MS Combat Flight Simulator, etc etc etc). Just out of curiousity,
        do the Germans/Japanese make games that kill the Allies?
        \_ while there is plenty of nazi paraphenalia in Japan, I have never
           seen a game where you actually fight the US.  There are plenty
           where you try to take over Asia though!  Also I believe the
           swastika is illegal in Germany.              -brain

           \_ Wolfenstein 3D is illegal in Germany for the Nazi imagery.
              Probably the original Wolfenstein was not illegal though because
              the graphics were so shitty!
                \_ Games involving killing humans are illegal there.  C&C
                   had humans replaced by robots.  There is a game called
                   'camp commander' in the underground nazi scene in .de
                   that's a resource-management game involving sending "Turks"
                   off to concentration camps.  There are a few games where
                   you play nazis/japs, like Battlefield 1942, and the old
                   Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (the sound clips in
                   BF1942 are absolutely hilarious.)  -John
        \_ i wonder how come we don't have any game like "Slave Tycoon."
                \_ that'd be REALLY cool too. I'm looking for similar games,
                   like Clubbing Baby Seals and Tiger Hunting
           \_ You should play Fallout 2.  Jet, man, Fucking Jet!
        \_ there are lots of games where you can play a Japanese Zero and
           shoot the Americans, or drive a Panzer tank and kill the Allies.
           \_ or play the iraqi killing american troops.
        \_ Not really because those Japanese and those Nazi are 'gone'.  The
           people there now (mostly) don't associate themselves with those
           dead empires.  Do you associate yourself with the slave holding
                \_ No but it's a reeeallly touchy subject in both Japan
                   and Germany.  Infinitely more so than anything you can
                   imagine here about slaves or indians.  -John
           south in this country?  The natives?  The Spanish who held CA?
           The French who held the center of the country?  The Russians who
           held Alaska?
           \_ I associate myself with cowboys who kill injun savages.
        \_ Are there any games where I can play Israeli troops and exterminate
           palestinians?  I'm too much of a pussy to join the Israeli army
           to do that, so I want to do the next best thing.  Thanks.
           \_ No, but I've seen the "Palestinian Pizza Bomber game" followed
              closely by the sequels, "Disco Bomber", "University Bomber",
              "Bus Bomber" and "Hotel Bomber" which were all included in a
              special "Push them into the sea" pack which had a special addon
              where you get to toss old wheelchair bound Jews into the sea
              from a cruise ship you've taken over.  I'm looking forward to
              "The Last Arab/Israeli War" game where the Arabs attack (again)
              and win this time and you get to play Arabs butchering Jews in
              the streets en masse while the UN passes resolutions against
              the wicked Jews for getting in the way of your axes and bullets.
        \_ Can we have an adult themed fantasy role playing game like
           ultima6 or something but with lots of kinky sex?
           \_ Write it and they shall cum.
2003/7/10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28987 Activity:high
7/9     Today's quote:
        "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the
         night to visit violence on those who would harm us". George Orwell
        \_ Yes, and the same could be said if you were a Nazi under Hitler.
           \_ It could?  No, not really.  BTW, you lose.  You're not only the
              first to mention Hitler or the Nazis but went straight to it.
              \_ Yes, it applies.  No, you lose.  Try again.
        \_ In our age there is no such thing as "keeping out of politics."
           All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of
           lies, evasions, folly, hatred, and schizophrenia.  -George Orwell
        \_ Who is harming who?  It's only now that we are admiting our leader
           lied to get popular support for the war, we essentially destroyed
           all the infrastructures.  We are "rebuilding" Iraq financed by
           bonds backed up by next 10 years of oil produced by Iraq, which
           only US Firm and its allies are benefiting.  Frankly, this is
           imperialism at work, almost as blatent as Britian's Opium War
           150 years ago.  And you are saying that they are harming us?
                \_ Stupid or naive - you decide:
                \_ they're screwing us anyway with terrorism, we'll screw
                   them with imperialism
                   \_ you really think that they were the one who fired
                      the first shot?
2003/6/7-8 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:28668 Activity:kinda low
6/7     First Wave at Omaha Beach - a recounting by military
        historian S.L.A. Marshall from 1960
        \_ More dead rich white men tooting their horns about how bravely
           they murdered and oppressed a foreign peoples.
2003/5/24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28542 Activity:nil
5/25    France was crying foul
        when Hitler occupied France.  Yet after Ally's victory, France
        turned around continue its occupation of Algeria and so-called
        Indo-China.  What justified French occupation of its "interest"
        while condemn the Nazi Germany for doing the same thing?
        What is the differences between Nazi dumping Jews to ghettoss
        versus USA dump its Japanese decents to concentration camp?
        Is the fact that USA and France is a democracy justify these
2003/3/28-30 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:27898 Activity:very high
3/28    Iraq Teach-In at Oakland City Hall Monday, March 31, 7pm
        Details:  ~erikred/oak_teachin
        \_ "Teach-In".  WTF was that ever supposed to mean anyway?  Will they
           teach me about the Nazi inspired political philosophy behind the
           Baathist party?  Will they teach me about the 60,000 kurds Hussein
           murdered in the 91 uprising?  Will they teach me anything at all
           about the real history of Iraq?
           \_ Nazi? I've seen him mostly described as a Stalinist. If you think
              about it, Stalin describes his behavior far better than Hitler.
              Besides, the mustache thing is total hero worship.
              \_ Nazi.  It's been said many times before on the motd.  Go look
                 up the history of the Baathist party and who they modeled
                 themselves on.  Hint: it was 1930's Nazi Germany.
                 \_ Hint: you are wrong.  It was Stalinist.
                    \_ why don't at least one of you clowns actually provide
                       a source.  several of us are actually anal enough
                       to go read both your sources.
                       \_ Stalin!  I saw it on CNN!!1!  Hussein models himself
                          after him.  Did anyone else see the segment???
                          \_ Uh, but didn't this thread almost immediately
                             invalidate itself anyway?  cf. Godwin's Law.
                             \_ No because in this case, it's actually on
                                topic.  If you're actually talking about the
                                Nazis then its ok to talk about the Nazis, eh?
                 \_ ok i typed stalin saddam hero into google and got some
                    pbs frontline interview:
                    or ok here is your hero Bush saying so himself!
                    I'm too lazy to find something more...but I don't need
                    a source, I know the history of Stalin and Hitler and
                    Saddam's tactics fit Stalin. All 3 of course share some
                    tendencies. Stalin named places after himself, so did
                    Saddam, not Hitler. Hitler promoted intense nationalism
                    militarism and industry, while Saddam and Stalin relied
                    more on controlling the rabble with an iron fist.
                    \_ You idiots.  Hitler took lessons from Stalin.  Stalin
                       was Hitler's hero!  What do you think the Gestapo was
                       modelled after.  It all goes to Stalin.
                       \_ Not to mention the concentration camps. Though,
                          Lenin and Trotsky were the true pioneers of that
                    \_ Gach, so annoying.  It's late right now so I'll dig
                       up some Baathist party history links for you ignorant
                       louts tomorrow.  It doesn't matter what mustache the
                       man wears.  What utter crap.  Christ oh mighty!
              \_ Although (me from above again), does it really matter if it
                 was Nazi or Stalin philosophy at this point?  Both were in
                 need of a good killing.
           \_ did he murder that many kurds and shia's? i thought it was shia's
              \_ Is one group worth more than the other?  They're all Iraqi and
                 they're all human beings and were all defenseless civilians.
           \_ Sorry, pal.  I'm just passing this along.  Feel free to show
              up and ask Jane Brunner.
              \_ Ok, no problem.  I read the list of speakers/teachers. It's
                 a bunch of socialists.  What are the odds of getting that
                 'fair & balanced' educational perspective that might actually
                 teach someone something?
                 \_ i do this by reading biased articles from opposite sides
                    and figuring out my own reality is somewhere in between.
        \_ Let's not forget that both Hitler and Stalin were Socialist/
           Communist.  Hitler's party was the National Socialist German
           Workers Party.  So please, Hitler was not right-wing, he
           a hardcore leftist.
           \_ Not to mention Clinton, Jimmy Carter and Willie Brown.
2003/3/14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:27695 Activity:high
3/13    A Short History of World War III
        \_ He forgot the terrorist plot to flush out and impurify all of
           our precious bodily fluids.
           \_ name one thing that is wrong in the above article.
              \_ Where to begin... for one thing, the article lists
                 a bunch on random events and suggests that this is
                 evidence for a coordinated war against the US with
                 its roots in the Iranian revolution, without providing
                 any reason as to why we should connect these
                 events together. For another example of this sort
                 of thing, see:
              \_ This is nothing like a World War. How is it like WWI or
                 WWII? It is more like the War of Spanish Succession
                 or to correctly include the religious element, The
                 Counter-Reformation. Hey, we even have Ashcroft
                 as Inquistor General! His babble about the 2.5%
                 should tip you off that he is a kook.
                 should tip you off that he is a kook. At least
                 he mentions the Thirty Years War at the end.
           \_ ever seen a terrorist drink a glass of water?
              \_  ever seen an elephant in an apple tree?
                  \_ ever watched Dr. Strangelove?
        \_ If you're not trying to genocide someone it isn't a World War
           quality war.  It's a police action at best these days.
2003/2/26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27529 Activity:nil
2/25    At a party attended by Congressman Tom Delay to a French diplomat,
        after discussing Iraq:
        Delay: "Do you speak German?"
        Diplomat: "No"
        Delay: "You're welcome"
        Delay walks away.
        \_ Boy, that'll show em! Those Frog Eaters!!! How dare they
           disagree with us about anything after all we did for them
           55 years ago!
           \_ Not to mention trying to draw a parellel between Iraq and
              Nazi germany is just plain silly.
2003/2/13 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27392 Activity:nil
2/12    "As Berman reported, Mr. Fischer (German Foreign Minister),
        you rose in public life as an important
        figure in the anti-American, anti-liberal, neo-Marxist,
        revolution-minded German radical left of the generation of 1968."
2003/1/29 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:27234 Activity:high
        This is the problem with kids today and Bush's Nazi scheme to have
        everyone reporting on everyone else.  It's insanity!  Let Snead go!
        \_ The Communist China did it the best.  They taught the kids to report
           any "anti-revolution" behavior to the govt.  There was even a govt.
           slogan which went like "You don't want dad, you don't want mom, you
           only want the country!"
           \_ it was during the height of Mao's rule. I think people
              in China today resent this and other aspect of the political
              movement started by him.
           \_ They've got nothing on that moron Bush.  Our "President".
              \_ Ain't mine, I didn't voted for him, and I still don't
                 think he won Florida legally.
                 \_ Right on!  I'm with you!  I'm putting my money where my
                    mouth is and not paying any Federal taxes while he's
                    illegally in office.
        \_ Every kid loves show-n-tell day!
2002/10/30-31 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:26366 Activity:low 66%like:25405 66%like:26928
10/30   This is not a troll!
        \_ You're not fooling me!
        \_ You nazi.  That post is like hitler.  I had sex with yermom.
           Kill all republicans.  Ban abortion.  Asian women are hot.
2002/9/22 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:25977 Activity:very high
9/22    Regarding this Bush compared to Hitler thing-- why?  I think it's
        perfectly apt-- Hitler did use war to distract the populace from
        domestic troubles, and it does seem like a motive worth
        considering wrt to the US as well.
        \_ Yes, Bush ordered the death of 6 million Jews. Instigated wars
           that resulted in even millions more deaths. In case you did not
           know this, Nazi Germany had an effecient, but austere, financial
           model. Wake up you stupid Neville Chamberlains - read some history
           instead of People magazine for once!
           \_ He hasn`t...yet. You know that Hitler didnt come with his
           "Final Solution" until later in the war? I think _you_ should
           read some history before blindly criticising.
           \_ A.. go visit the Huntington Library and ask to see the original
              Nuremberg files. I assure you they were written way before the
              war started.
              war started. From your spelling you obviously didn't grow up in
              America. They say the reason why England is so far down is because
              all the smart ones died in WWII. I guess you proof positive.
           \_ Hitler wrote Mein Kampf long before he got power.  His Final
              Solution wasn't far from his original thinking.  Your comparison
              of Hitler to Bush is insulting to my race, nearly wiped off the
              face of Europe by Hitler, and my relatives, who fought Hitler
              and were willing to give their lives to see him defeated.
              Sign your name, asshole.  -- ilyas
           \_ Maybe you need a new tin foil hat?  I think THEY're getting to
              you.  I heard they increased their power output recently in an
              attempt to override the older tin foil hat problem.
        \_ The original quote was this: "Bush wants to distract attention
           from his domestic problems. That's a popular method. Even
           Hitler did that."  Nobody ever called Bush a Hitler.  This
           minister merely pointed out that Bush was pulling an ages old
           political trick.
2002/9/11-12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:25843 Activity:high
        how stupid can a pope be?
        \_ Not as stupid as the shrub. -chialea
        \_ It's an easy thing to say when it wasn't the Vatican on the
           receiving end.  Ya know, the same folks that caused more death,
           misery, wars, and suffering than any other single group on the
           planet in the world's entire history.  They said they were sorry
                \_ the pope was shot and almost assasinated.  He visited
                   and forgave his shooter.
                   \_ so?
                      \_ "It's an easy thing to say when it wasn't the
                          Vatican on the receiving end"
                \_ I think it's a close race with Stalin
                   \_ I'll grant you on body count but the popes
                      still have it on the multi-continent thing and total
                      time/lost generations.
                   \_ About how many did each of them kill?
                      \_ Some say about 20m of his own people for Stalin.  The
                         figures for the popes/church are not available or as
                         easily figured.  For example, do you count the dozens
                         of millions who died in South American at the hands
                         of the conquistadores with the pope's OK?  How many
                         on each side died during the crusades?  What effect on
                         public health did the pope's anti-science stance have?
                         One was a butcher of people, the other has murdered
                         entire societies and delayed human advances by several
                         \_ Stalin never condoned having sex with children
                            \_ It's not the Catholic Church's fault.  It
                               was the will of the Great Spider.
                               \_ I'm gonna miss "Family Guy."
                                  \_ Me too.  However, that was a reference
                                     to South Park.
                  \_ If you want to talk total deaths, Hitler beats them all.
                     If you want to talk own people killed, probably Mao is #1.
                     \_ Hitler? Justify. You can't blame Hitler directly for
                        the WW2 military deaths since after all it was
                        Britain and France who actually declared war first.
                        This was after Poland and Stalin also invaded Poland.
                        Since Stalin and Hitler both "caused" WW2 and Stalin
                        killed ~20M in camps vs. Hitler's high ests. of 6M,
                        Stalin takes the cake.
                        \_ He declared war on the Soviet Union and troops
                           acting under his orders killed 20M Russians. Add
                           that to the 6M Jews and 4M or so other Eastern
                           Europeans killed at his command and he takes the
           for some of that stuff, now it's ok to take the moral high ground.
           Oh yeah, let's do it for the children.  We need to make sure
           there's enough children around to molest. --stupid pope #1 fan
           \_ you should go to a GWAR concert.  they kill the pope on stage by
              feeding him to a giant dinasaur.
        \_ What's the CSUA username/password at the NYtimes? :"For full
           access to our site, please complete this simple registration form.
           \_ csuamotd/csuamotd -geordan
                \_ Thanks.
        \_ So, why are you calling him stupid?
           \_ Troll.
              \_ and a fat one at that.  Some people actually do believe
                 in forgiveness and empathy and self examination...
                 \_ Don't feed trolls.
2002/8/20 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:25618 Activity:low
8/20    motd nazi, who are you?
        \_ If you can't keep proper track of the motd... It's pretty damned
           easy to figure out who writes what and who censors what in near
           real time.
2002/6/12-13 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:25078 Activity:moderate
6/11    Yemeni victims of racial profiling by Bush Nazi Brigade
        \_ Bad Troll. No cookie.
        \_ I don't think it's a big stretch to think that many citizens
            of  Yemen are dedicated to destroying the US, what do you think?
           \_ you would punish them all for the actions of a tiny few?
2002/3/23-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:24210 Activity:nil
3/23    Here's a big shocker, Swiss turned back Jewish refugees during WWII
        sending thousands to their deaths in Nazi camps.
2002/2/23-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23958 Activity:insanely high
2/22    Just curious, when the Olympics was held in Berlin back in the 30s
        how many gold medals did Germans get?
        \_  ya gotta love google...
                Top winners          G   S   B    Total
            1.  Germany             33  26  30    89
            2.  USA                 24  20  12    56
            3.  Italy                8   9   5    22
           \_ wow those Nazis are really good... or not :)
           \_ wow, taking performance enhancing drugs even then, eh?
        \_ Keep in mind, that Germany before WW2 was the techincally
           most advanced nation in the world.  Nazi party managed to
           pull Germany out of depression which lasted 10 years.
           Too bad, among other things, Hitler never been to Asia
           at the time, otherwise, he probably will not complain about
           lack of "living space" for the German people.
           \_ Max Schmeling and Jesse Owens would tell you otherwise.  -John
           \_ Nah, Germany was really advanced pre-WWI.  By pre-WWII,
              it has slipped a little relatively speaking.  Also,
              Germany is crowded even by Asian standards.
           \_ Hitler not complain about bad engrish on motd not either!
        \_ Why does UK suck so bad in the Olympics relative to the
           other European nations?
           \_ because their wide success in rock music has encouraged
              more youth to pick up music as opposed to sports.
           \_ They don't have mountains.  -tom
           \_ they have bad teeth
           \_ All the males died in WW I / II, leaving mostly
              effeminate noncombatants to repopulate.  Plus they are
              socialists and their societies are dying, literally.
              \_ But UK is less socialist than Sweden and Norway!
                 \_ Sweden and Norway don't have zillions of foreigners on
                    welfare swamping their shores.
              \_ Is it "dying", too?
                    \_ yeah that's it - blame the foreigners.
                       \_ Blame goes where it belongs.  shrug.
                    \_ Canada is just as socialist, has just as many
                       foreigners, and still did well at the Olympics.
                       Your explanation is stupid.  I like Tom's
                       explanation better.  But then UK also kind of
                       sucks at Summer Olympics.  The rock music
                       explanation ain't bad either.
                        \_ Hey genius, the topic moved beyond medal count.
                           Try again.
                           \_ Why do you insist on trying to explain
                              your stupidity.  I suggest the best way
                              for you to cover it up is to delete
                              this thread in its entirety.
                              \_ No one was explaining anything.  You were
                                 being corrected.  So this makes two times you
                                 needed correcting on the same thread.  You
                                 stick around, son, you'll get it one day.  I
                                 suggest a basic reading comprehension course
                                 at a local community college for a good start.
                                 \_ The only time the topic changed was when
                                    it shifted from medal count to how stupid
                                    you are.
                                    \_ Maybe you're not ready for community
                                       college basic reading comp. courses.
2002/2/6-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:23793 Activity:low
2/6     International reaction to Bush's Axis of Evil declaration was swift,
        as within minutes, France surrendered.
2001/12/5 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:23153 Activity:insanely high
12/5    Should Osama bin Laden be a candidate for Time magazine's Man of the
        \_ Of course.
        \_ I agree wholeheartedly.
        \_ he is not a man though, but a coward. Only men should be nominated
        \_ Yes, because Time Magazine states that Man of the Year is for the
           person that influenced, either good or bad, the world the most
           during that year.  So that title doesn't necessarily honor someone.
           At least that's the Magazine's intent.  --- yuen
        \_ You know it won't happen, since if it did, the mag would lose
           all this $ from cancelled subscriptions and boycotts.  Anyways,
           he shouldn't.
           \_ Why shouldn't he?
                \_ Because even though Time says this isn't intended as an
                   honor it is seen as one anyway.  If it wasn't seen as one,
                   there'd be no controversy.
                   \_ Hitler and Stalin have been men of the year.
                        \_ Yes, and?  So what?  So was the Iyatollah(sp?).
                           \_ So what? So, moral qualifications have nothing
                              to do with being named Man of The Year, just
                              being influential on world events.
                              \_ You missed the part where only Time thinks
                                 being named Man of the Year isn't an honor.
                                 The rest of the planet thinks it is, therefore
                                 it is and naming a scumbag like Bin Laden *is*
                                 honoring him and it shouldn't be so.  Why is
                                 this so hard to understand?  Time is just
                                 disingenuous and intentionally controversial
                                 as a PR stunt.
                      \_ They named Hitler before he killed all the Jewish
                         people.  They named Stalin at the end of WW2.
                         \_ No, they named Stalin twice, once in 39 and
                            once in 42.
                         \_ So you meant Hitler was a "good guy" before the
                            \_ Do you have a problem?  Disheveled Historians
                               in 1938 could say Hitler was a Historical
                               Figure for creating a military machine, but
                               to name him after WW2 is something els.
                               \_ I see.  Thx.
        \_ Actually, I could see the Time staff selecting Osama, if he
           turns up dead pretty soon.
        \_ They should create a category. One for evil men of the year, and
           the other one for the good men of the year. Superman, Batman,
           and Spiderman should be included.
        \_ Man of the Year should be our hero and savior, our great president
           George W. Bush.
           \_ Just like his dad, who was named "Men of the Year"
              \_ Wasn't his dad named "Two faced Man of the Year" or somesuch?
           \_ It'll be Rudy before GW.
              \_what the hell did Rudy do? Speak bravely while living w/2fags
           \_ Ok you hate GWB.  Whatever.  You're a Berkeley student, so I
              guess you're supposed to be sarcastic and bitter in a futile
              attempt at cleverness, humor, and political acumen.  That's
              nice of you to share.  Sophomore or immature junior?
              \_ my guess is alumni
2001/11/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23013 Activity:nil
11/12   In Saving Private Ryan there is this skinny tri-lingual guy who is
        always afraid of combat. Toward the end of the movie he walks
        up the stairway and meets this German guy. How come the German guy
        didn't kill him? Also what did he say to the Germans, and why did
        he shoot only one guy?
        \_Why is Darth Luke's father? Why is Barney pink? Who cares?
2001/10/10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:22676 Activity:very high
10/9    Russians going to be in Kabul first.
        \_ You musn't underestimate Russian blundering. I was with them
           when they blundered into Berlin in 1945.
        \_ yes, like the americans are gonna lead the way
        \_ They were already there in 1980. A lot of good it did them.
        \_ Were the Russians or the Americans in Berlin first during WWII?
           \_ MAN what do they teach in history these days? The Russians.
              Ike is said to want to give them the honor though the Allies
              could have been there first if they wanted.
              \_ I forgot most of my HS history already.  All I remember is
                 from the General Patten movie where Patten said he wanted to
                                  \_ Patton, even.
                 beat the Russians in entering Berlin.  But I forgot who
                 entered Berlin first in the movie.
                 \_ Patton's view on the Germans and the Soviets:
                    The past half century could've been a better time if he
                    were allowed to go after the Soviets.
                    \_ Patton lost.  The Ruskies got to the Nazi bitches first.
                    \_ Patton was a racist and anti-Semite and despised
                       by his men and by Eisenhower.
                       \_ that's why he was so effective and great
2001/9/18-19 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Health/Men] UID:22515 Activity:high
9/18    Here is something one can do to prevent and combat future terrorist
        \_ Wu Shu is good for everyone.
        \_ A link to Patton's speech from that page:
           Patton was already using terms like "He Man" and "superman".  I
           thought those were first created as comic characters after WWII.
           \_ "superman" was a 19th century idea.  See Nietzsche, Wagner,
              Shaw, et al.
2001/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/911, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:36274 Activity:nil
9/12    Oliver Stone time. There is evidence that FDR was informed about
        a possible attack on Pearl Harbor and didn't do anything because
        he wanted the US to get involved in WWII. There is also evidence
        that the USS Greer was depth charging a german u boat under orders
        from Wilson and the Sec. Nav etc when it was attacked leading us
        into WWI. Is it possible that Bush knew and didn't do anything
        so that we could get involved in another war?
        Also consider the recovered "evidence" in Boston. That is such
        a setup, but by whom? The feds (fbi,cia), the administration,
        or the real terrorists trying to throw the investigators of
        the trail?
        \_ You are giving them too much credit.
        \_ The CIA did it to boost their budget.
           \_ Maybe so:
2001/9/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/Religion] UID:22405 Activity:high
9/12    These people need to die:
        \_ Agreed.
        \_ ...Rocket-Propelled Grenades!?!???  "Please fire straight up"
        \_ I think it is worthwhile to consider that the Palestinians
           live in a situation where the Israelis use guns against people
           armed with rocks , etc.  Several palestinians have died from
           what many would call oppression.  Isreal is supported financially
           by the US and its not peanuts.  For the US to experience needless
           violence some could consider justified.  I think anyone that is using
           violence is awrong.  Just something to consider before calling for
           the death of people you don't know.  - a swede (yeah, one of those
           neutral f----rs).
           \_ Rock throwers are the ones they put in view of the CNN cameras.
              They don't put the armed assassins and carbombers on CNN. The
              palestinians aren't human they have lost the right to be treated
              and considered as such because of this. I say we wipe them out,
              all of them.
              \_ Funny, I think Hitler used the same thinking.  How quickly
                 people forget their history. - the swede
                 \_ the diference being that the jews of the time werent
                    using weapons to attack people. The palestinians are.
                 \_ The jews in germany did not chear in the streets when
                 \_ The jews in germany did not cheer in the streets when
                    germans civilians die during fire bombings. They were
                    human beings, those things in palestine are not.
                    \_ First of all, how the f do you know what every jew
                        did during those times?  Keep in mind, only those
                        palestinians that are stupid enough to celebrate
                        the loss of lives are reported on TV.  We have the
                        same kind of morons here in the US walking around
                        in white sheets celebrating bombings of african
                        american churches in the US.
                        \_ Granted some Palestinians may not have been
                           involved in the celebration, but they are
                           clearly in the minority throughout the arab
                   \_ Second of all, who are you to decide who is human?
                        It is frightening to think that you are using the
                        same justifications as were used in WWII to kill
                        jews, gays, handikapped, gypsies, ...
                        You and your attide revolt me.  I can only hope it is
                        youth talking. - the swede
                        \_ It is people with your attitude that sit idly
                           by while the muslim menace destroys all that is
                           good in this world. There were people like you
                           in my country once. When the muslims came and
                           sacked our temples and homes and murdered our
                           families these people said, give them room.
                           We gave them room. They murdered our relatives
                           and sent their corpses over in trains. They
                           laughed in the streets, and people like you
                           said understand them, accept them, its not
                           thier fault its our fault we must make more
                           room. We did. It hasn't worked. The time for
                           inaction and diplomacy is past, the time for
                           action is now.
        \_  First of all let me thank you for at least putting your
            statements into context.  This makes it easier to understand
            where you come from.
            Let me make it clear that I am not advocating "sitting idly by."
            This kind of acts have to be dealt with and most likely force
            will be necessary.  What I am objecting to is the use of _blind_
            rage.  You have painted all muslims alike.  You are advocating
            the killing of innocent people when you call for the death of
            celebrating palestinians.  Their behavior is as abhorrent as
            yours.  But all it is, are words, for them and hopefully for you
            as well.  It may sound like BS but the _right_ people has to be
            found and should be punished.  Killing the wrong people will just
            justify another terrorist attack in the mind of some misguided
            suicide bomber/hijacker/whatever.
            I hope I can get you to agree that the action that is needed
            today has to be deliberate and just.  Or, would you rather
            that we kill innocent people just so we can say we had revenge?
            - the swede
2001/9/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:22400 Activity:high
9/12    Recall that WWI was a powder keg which exploded when a terrorist
        assasinnated the archduke of Serbia.  Of course, after millions
        of people had died.  We then set in motion another series of events
        which caused WW2, where HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people died.
        Surely, we need a response, but we can't let it explode into all
        out war.  Are you willing to die to get revenge?  Are millions of
        lives worth the revenge?  Just try to stay calm and think carefully.
        \_ No one will interfere with the US.  Pretty much all nations that
           matter said "this should not go unanswered."  No one will stop the
           US as they plow through the middle east taking out terrorist
           nests with guided rockets and bombs.
        \_ The reason nobody attacks the US like this is the general belief
           that if they did, the US would completely fucking obliterate them.
           Therefore, we must now do so, or our threat is void and further
           attacks will come without fear.
        \_ bullshit. you think you are powerful enough to matter?  this whole
        affair started when that fucker went to the temple mound...escalated
        this shit around, then last week fucking afghani cut off all contact
        wtiht the world.. you think you're "Jack Ryan"... you're a special
        enough person to affect the machinations set into action a year ago
        by a dead man? puh lease.  You'll go along for the ride like the rest
        of us, silly sheep.
        \_ The reason nobody attacks the US like this is the general belief
           that if they did, the US would completely fucking obliterate them.
           Therefore, we must now do so, or our threat is void and further
           attacks will come without fear.
        \_ bullshit. you think you are powerful enough to matter?  this
           whole affair started when that fucker went to the temple mound...
           escalated this shit around, then last week fucking afghani cut
           off all contact with the world.. you think you're "Jack Ryan"...
           you're a special enough person to affect the machinations set into
           action a year ago by a dead man? puh lease.  You'll go along for
           the ride like the rest of us, silly sheep.
        \_ I think the terrorist was Serbian; the archduke was Ferdinand (a
           Hapsburg), from Austria.
           \_ Austrian-Hungarian empire.
        \_ Neville Chamberlain's Ghost? Casualties, in the 10's not 100's
        \_ Neville Chamberlain's Ghost? Casulties, in the 10's not 100's
           of millions, were predominantly borne by Russia (25 million)
           and Germany.  You might take your own advice and consider
           the efficacy of appeasment and concession in the days leading
           to WW II.  Freedom without sacrifice is meaningless.
           \_ Well, obviously by WW2 it was too late.
           \_ Japan and China had comparable casualty figures.
           \_ I disagree.  I think Great Britain declared war at just the
              right time - when Germany invaded Poland.
        \_ I think the terrorist was Serbian, the archduke was a Hapsburg, from
           to WW II.
           \_ 100 million is not overblown.  Including both military and
              civilian casualties, 79 million in the European theatre
2001/7/16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Computer/Theory] UID:21806 Activity:nil
7/16    I'm new to CSUA. Can somebody tell me who the following people are
        (one sentence per user please thanks):
        tjb- trevor j. buckingham. controversial republican that complains
        about being oppressed and spouts lots of harsh remarks on newsgroups.
        smokes a lot of pot and is into turntablism.
        paolo- ???
        tom- grouchy bike Nazi
        kchang- ???
        nweaver- (what is "I partied with nweaver?")
        ilyas- russian guy who talks about physics and "AI" and "hard"
        theoretical problems.
        ali- arrogant Irani who knows C++ well. but no one cares.
2001/5/10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:21220 Activity:very high
5/9     Congratulations on the fifty sixth anniversary of the great victory
        of the Soviet people over the german aggressors.
                \_ soviet who?
        \_ what battle was this? -ig'nant
           \_ This was the Great Patriotic War, also known as World War 2.
        \_ Little Troll, in order to attract attention you must stick with
           topics people think they know something about or have an opinion
           on.  Your implying that the Soviets did all the work in WWII to
           put down the Nazis, that the Allies weren't even there and further
           that the Soviets were some sort of innocent victims headed by that
           benevolent butcher Stalin is wasted on the ignorant masses on the
           motd.  Those of us who know what you're talking about know better.
           You can't rewrite history like this.  Maybe you could get someone
           upset for about 3 seconds if you denied the holocaust.  3 seconds.
             \_ I beg to differ.  Judging by the responses below, that was
                a hell of a troll.
                \_ There's a difference between getting hyped up about it which
                   was the intent of the troll and educating him.  I seriously
                   doubt he wanted lessons on WWII from half the motd authors.
           \_ Ah, but I am not rewriting history at all.  The point is,
              Russia does celebrate May 9th as V-day.  And it does so happen
              that it was Russia that broke Wehrmacht's back, and took Berlin
              (at a great loss of life too, 20 million was a state figure, it
              was more like 50 million).  Now, I certainly don't think Stalin
              was benevolent by any stretch of imagination, but the russians
              did win, bad leadership or no.  And I give credit where credit
              is due.  Now, what did Americans do during the war besides
              providing attrition for the U-boat torpedo bays with their endless
              supply of trading vessels?
                 \_ Uh, Americans took Normady, Sicily, North Africa and
                    the retook the philipines and most of south asia.
                    As I recall, American and Russian forces entered Berlin
                    on the same day.
                    \_ Americans took Sicily from Italians who knew very little
                       about war (incidentally Italians and Romanians were the
                       rear units of the Army Group assigned to take
                       Stalingrad, they were easily overrun and destroyed by
                       the Russians, completing the encirclement.)  The Allies
                       didn't take North Africa from the Axis for as long as
                       Rommel was there, kicking ass and taking names.
                        \_ Rommel got his ass kicked in N.Africa.  Try again.
                       Americans did take Normandy with some loss of life, and
                       I admit it to have been a gutsy move on their part.  My
                       point is, all these operations were minor at best, and
                       had no tangible influence on the outcome of the War that
                       was essentially fought on the Russian steppes.
                        \_ It's your point, yes, but it's also complete
              \_ There's a reason it was called an "alliance".  Without the
                 Americans (and British, Canadians, etc, etc) pulling forces
                 away from the east, the Russians would have been lucky to lose
                 only 50 million and it would've been a miracle if they didn't
                 get totally crushed even under the weak military leadership
                 Hitler provided.  That the Russians have a holiday for
                 something hardly makes it a historical fact that they single
                 handedly defeated the Nazis while the West watched from the
                 sidelines.  Your last line about uboats is historically
                 inaccurate and your entire revisionist line is a reinvention
                 of reality.  At least this time you tried to provide some
                 facts even though your baiting was still based on a flawed
                 understanding of history.  Read a book not published by the
                 producers of the People's Daily World some day.  For true
                 trolling you would have posted more numbers without any
                 citation and taken them as gospel.  You're getting better but
                 still need some work.  I'm changing your D- to a B-.
                 \_ Troll schools are hard up for teachers, aren't they?
                    Check for the gory details of the U-boat war
                    that american propaganda does not talk about.  Germans
                    measured U-boat success in thousands of tons of shipping
                    sunk.  As in 80 this month, 200 that month.  Do you realize
                    how much that is?  As for the West 'helping' the only real
                    help they provided to russia was very limited material
                    assistance via Archangelsk (which they could certainly
                    have done without).  By the time the Allies joined the
                    war in 1944, it was already won, the russians were chasing
                    germans across eastern europe back into Berlin.
                    \_ Yeah, the Russians did the most fighting, but even
                       before normandy, the other allies absorbed some
                       German forces in north africa, the balkans, battle of
                       britain, bombing of Germany, etc.
                       \_ True enough, Rommel and his Afrika Corp was kept
                          somewhat occupied trouncing British forces (which
                          outnumbered him and had far more supplies).  The
                          poster I was replying to, though, was claiming that
                          without Allies Russia would have likely lost, which
                          is ridiculous.  America deliberately sat on the
                          sidelines to let Russia and Germany bleed each other.
                          This is a fine political strategy, but please don't
                          have the gall to claim some sort of value or military
                          worth for America's participation in WWII.
                          \_ Rommel got pounded in North Africa.  He wasn't
                             "kept somewhat occupied".
                          \_ well, you have to admit that russia got its ass
                             kicked hard up until stalingrad. the germans
                             failed at stalingrad partly due to factors caused
                             by having to deal with the other allies on the
                             other fronts, and having their airforce wiped out,
                             and being bombed to hell by massive fleets of
                             US bombers. if the germans had been able to bring
                             the full blitzkrieg on early enough, with full
                             support, it's doubtful the russians would have

                             made it through that winter.
                             \_ Russia did get its ass kicked hard.  But the
                                victory at Stalingrad was entirely Russia's.
                                The bombing that early in the war had no
                                appreciable effect, Britain's Bomber command
                                was taking it's heaviest losses at that time.
                                The real reason Russia won Stalingrad was
                                Hitler's stupid insistence on taking the city
                                (as it was symbolic, being named after his
                                adversary), as well Russia's first use of
                                sophisticated pincer tactics in delaying the
                                bulk of German forces in Stalingrad's rubble,
                                while using fresh divisions to surround, break
                                up, and finally destroy Paulus' forces.
                                \_ Russia hardly invented pincer tactics.  The
                                   Romans were flanking their enemies 2000+
                                   years earlier.  Good try.
                                   \_ You didn't parse my sentence correctly.
                                      I didn't claim Russia invented pincer
                                      tactics, merely that Stalingrad was the
                                      first time Russia used such tactics.
                          \_ I agree.  I have a lot of respect for the Russian
                             tenacity in breaking the Wehrmacht.  I agree that
                             Russia would likely be able to defeat Hitler
                             even without the western front being opened, as
                             can be seen from Stalingrad and Kursk.  However,
                             US and Britain did make the job much easier and
                             less costly with the landing at Normandy and
                             subsequent actions.  US involvement also prevented
                             western Europe from becoming Soviet's protectorates.
                             Also, we must remember that WWII started when
                             Hitler and Stalin decided to divide up Poland.
                             Finally, US did help win the War in Asia.
           \_ Russia probably could have helped herself a lot more by not
              signing a treaty with the Nazis in 1939, dividing Poland between
              the two of them, and sitting on their collective asses while
              Western Europe was overrun in the blitzkrieg.
                 \_ Wouldn't have worked. Even before his rise to power
                    Hitler felt that russia could not be trusted and
                    would need to have been eliminated.
                    \_ General Patten (sp?) felt the same.
              \_ well, then they probably wouldn't have ended up annexing
                 said half of poland, and east prussia. i bet stalin didn't
                 really give a shit about the tens of millions of lost lives.
                 strategically, the war was quite good for russia and made
                 them a superpower.
           \_ Um, isn't (s)he talking about some specific event, like that
              time when they led the Germans in really deep over the cracking
              ice so they all froze and drowned?
              \_ Dude, that event is Alexander Nevsky's victory over the
                 mute Germans. That happened like in the 14th cent. or sth.
              \_ Hmm, this sounds like how they defeated the French army
                 under Napoloen.
                 \_ A little known meteorological fact:  The worst winters in
                    Russian history were in the years 1812, and 1943.
                    \_ How lucky the Russians were!
                       \_ "Lucky."
                           \_ It's not that the Russians were lucky, it's
                              just that evil people like Napoleon and Hitler
                              were unlucky.  Napoleon's real bad luck was that
                              he fought a Britain that just started undergoing
                              the industrial revolution.
2000/11/6-7 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:19650 Activity:very high
11/6    Think about it.
        \ why?
          \_ why not?
             \_ why ask why?
                \_ why ask why ask why?
                \_ Where's the Beef?  Where's the Beef?
        \_ I'd rather vote for Bush.
           \_ see archives about being kicked in the nuts.
              \_ We have archives?  Where?
                 \_ /tmp/nut-kicking-for-goodness.txt
        \_ damn you censoring nazi bastards
        \_ let me guess, you're a Feinstein supporter
2000/3/29 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Computer/Theory] UID:17882 Activity:nil
3/27    fibonacci sucks big dick
        \_ I wish. but mine wont fit
           \_ You wish a guy suck your dick?
              \_ You writing your grammar wish good?
              \_ Why not?  Who cares who does it?  Lips & tounge are
                      lips & tounge.
                 \_ Sigh.
                    \_ Ahhh.
                 \_ formatting hard so Is?  I all I'll start purging think
                    content-free that comments formatted poorly are.
                              --formatting nazi
                    \_ Do it.  Blow 'em away!
                 \_ what the fuck is a tounge?
                    \_ An extremely clever anagram. -pld
2000/3/2-3 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:17680 Activity:nil
3/2     If Gen. Pinhead were a Nazi war criminal, the Brits would have
        handed him over to the Spaniards like pit bull with rabies
        programming in Visual Basic.  -mtbb
        \_ I think we should wait at Can for his plane to pass and...
           Fire!  *SMACK!*  What happened?  Oh my, he just vanished!
           F0->All  Gen. Pinochet:  use the Buddy System.   ---> BB-7 <---
1999/4/27 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:15709 Activity:high
4/27    Is the media under some sort of self-imposed censorship with regard
        to the Littleton killer's parents?  I have yet to see any pictures
        of the parents of the two gunmen.  I think the public has a right
        to see what kind of parents let their children build pipebombs in
        their garage and espouse Nazi views.
        \_ I have the right to know what parents let their kids be
           part of the industrial meat production industry.
1999/4/1-2 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15680 Activity:kinda low 50%like:15676
3/31    I am interested in learning german. does anyone know of any cheap
        \_ hook up with a German guy/gal !
                \_ "Hi!  You look Germanic and if you're a native fluent
                    speaker who yearns to teach an eager younger computer
                    scientist your father tongue and an active interest in
                    getting laid on the side, I'd like to take you out!  How
                    about it?  Next Thursday around 2am in the WEB?"
                    \_ if you get more responses than you can handle, please
                       let me know . . . I'd like to learn German too!
                       \_ ah yes, the ins and outs of adult german...
        classes in the east bay or elsewhere for basic german? adult
        schools, jc, etc...
1999/3/31-4/4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15676 Activity:high 50%like:15680
3/31    I am interested in learning german. does anyone know of any cheap
                           \_ hook up with a German guy/gal !
        classes in the east bay or elsewhere for basic german? adult
        schools, jc, etc...
        \_ hook up with a German guy/gal !
                \_ "Hi!  You look Germanic and if you're a native fluent
                    speaker who yearns to teach an eager younger computer
                    scientist your father tongue and an active interest in
                    getting laid on the side, I'd like to take you out!  How
                    about it?  Next Thursday around 2am in the WEB?"
                    \_ if you get more responses than you can handle, please
                       let me know . . . I'd like to learn German too!
                       \_ ah yes, the ins and outs of adult german...
               \_ Learn from me, you can lose 20lbs in one week!!!!
           Dude, why would you want to speak German.  It's a horrible
           language.  In fact, it's not a language, it's a throat disease.
           Trust me, I'm a native speaker.  When you argue with a German
           about this, they'll inevitably try to convince you of how
           beautiful and elegant it is by pointing to the same three
           or four books over and over again.  It's ponderous, ugly-
           sounding, and overly complex.  Learn a nice language, or
           something useful, like Spanish or French or even Italian.
           Maybe something cool like Russian or Chinese or Japanese.  But
           don't put yourself through this trouble;  German is awful, with
           the culture to go with it.  Aside from that, I'd be glad to
           help out with anything.  -John
                \_ I love to sodomize you in the WEB at 2am, John.
                                        - owner of
           \_ Will you meet me in the WEB at 2am with some sex on the side?
                \_ you oldtimers are showing your age.  there has been no WEB
                   for the last 4 years or so.
                        \- What happened to the WEB???
                                \_ They filled it with Macs and turned the
                                   OCF end into a Calculus-on-Computers lab
                                   for Math 1a/b.
           \_ I love John.  He's the bomb.  But I also love German. Es macht
                kuhl.  Ja, stimmt Beavis!  Feuer! Feuer!  -space nazi
                \_ They're dubbing South Park into Kraut.  -John
           \_ What about Rilke, dude?
                \_ Rainer Maria Rilke is about the epitome of
                   hitleriffically funny, light-hearted teutonic
                   literature.  And no, you CAN'T sodomize me in the WEB,
                   I'm immune to such things.  I kicked Roy out of pure
                   excitement while netsex-h0zing as a freshman at 2am;
                   he was sleeping under the table, and I thought he
                   was a backpack.  You can't touch me.  Nyah.  -John
1998/12/30 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15149 Activity:nil
12/28   Sorry for the length of the URL.  This is what it is.  Anyway,
        "German kills pitbull with his bare hands".  Don't mess with those
        German dudes....
1998/10/15-16 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:14775 Activity:high
10/14   Candlelight Vigil for that gay guy who was beaten to death in WI
        Tonight at 8:00pm on upper sproul
        \_ got what he deserved... gonna stay home and watch TV.
                \_ I'll feed the troll.  Here goes:
                   He deserved to be bound naked to a barbed wire fence,
                   beaten to the edge of death and left there all night in
                   the freezing cold?  (Their nights are a fuck load colder
                   than ours, btw).  He did exactly what to deserve this?
                   Ooooh yeah... He was born different from you.
                   \_ grow up for once
                   \_ grow up dude -- 2nd party
                      \_ Some trolls really hit home, you know. -- 3rd party
                         \_ Damn, if you aren't the dumbest mother fucker soda
                            has seen in a long time.  Obvious to everyone but
                            you, the 2nd party was showing how ridiculous the
                            troll was.  If you're going to troll, do it right.
                                        -- 4th party
                         \_ well, i personally don't know much about gay
                            politics nor do i really care but if you think
                            stripping another person and brutally murdering
                            them is in any way funny then you must be one
                            real sicko. i hate my math prof but i don't
                            think it would be funny if i saw their carcass
                            on a fece.
                            \_ what if I don't strip them first?  Is that ok?
                                \_ no it's not ok, and it isn't even as funny.
                                \_ Whenever you commit murder, it's not ok.
                                   \_ it's not murder.  it's self-defense.
                                      gonna wipe out the virus breeders.
                                   \_ but my pappy said killing gays isn't
                                      murder, it's "Cleansing the earth"
                                        \_ that's what Hitler said about
                                           the jews...and we all know how
                                           great of a roll model he is.
                                           \_ Okay, discussion over.
                                              Discussion ends when someone is
                                              compared to Hitler.
                                           \_ Hitler made a great start
                                              but he shoulda realized that just
                                              like roaches, you caint git rid
                                              of all dem jew vermin.
                                        \_ Please cleanse your pappy from
                                           the earth for us.
                                           \_ are you some sort of faggot-lover?
                        Time to kick some FOB Asian ass again.  _/
        \_ WI is Wisconsin.  WY is Wyoming.
                \_ Thanks for some elementary education.
1998/5/12-13 [Transportation/Car, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:14088 Activity:high
5/11    Ve haff high-speed, high-tech, high-gloss Autobahn you peon.
         Learn to build roads, Amerikaner Schweinehund pig dogs.  -John
           \_ But your roads were built by Hitler's minions to move tanks
              around the country.
           \_ It is (or should be) quite well-known that our Interstate
              Highways were built in order to help keep the nation "safe"
              from nuclear attack... -brg
                \_ and Eisenhower built ours to have 1 out of every 5
                miles of freeway straight enough to serve as emergency air
                strips in times of invasion.
                \_ I like Ike!
                \_ Yes, and your point was?
                   \_ That Eisenhower was JUST LIKE HITLER!  (Except without
                      hair or a mustache.)
                        \_ Except for genocidal take-over-the-world insanity
                           and a long list of other "negative personality
                           traits" Hitler had and Ike didn't.
        \_ don't think a M1 Abrams would have too much trouble on any of
           the local freeways.  Figure that even gridlock on these roads
           wouldn't slow 'em down too much.
           \_ But your roads were built by Hitler's minions to move tanks
              around the country.
           \_ It is (or should be) quite well-known that our Interstate
              Highways were built in order to help keep the nation "safe"
              from nuclear attack... -brg
                \_ and Eisenhower built ours to have 1 out of every 5
                miles of freeway straight enough to serve as emergency air
                strips in times of invasion.
                \_ I like Ike!
                \_ Yes, and your point was?
                   \_ That Eisenhower was JUST LIKE HITLER!  (Except without
                      hair or a mustache.)
                        \_ Except for genocidal take-over-the-world insanity
                           and a long list of other "negative personality
                           traits" Hitler had and Ike didn't.
                           \_ That's what you think, and that's what the
                              "approved" historians would like you to believe
                              about Ike.  It's amazing what psychotherapy, a
                              clique of determined kingmakers, and a
                              sheeplike, willing-to-stay-quiet media can
                              accomplish . . .
                             \_ You're claiming that Ike had genocidal plans
                                or that Hitler didn't?  Seek help either way.
                             \_ If Hitler had won, in several hundred years,
                                what would historians have said, since history
                                is written by the victors? Would the millions
                                who perished magically disappear?
                                \_ something like "Lots of criminals
                                   were rooted out and executed ..."
                \_ Wouldn't the cars tend to get in the way?
        \_ But we have CHEAP GAS, GUNS, and COUNTRY MUSIC!!!
           GOD BLESS the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!  USA #1!!!!!!
1998/2/14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:13667 Activity:moderate
2/13    I don't understand the new b/w Sun commercial where people fight about
        different languages, and at the end, you see this Hitler-like face. Is
        that suppose to represent Bill G., or represent that languages should
        be unified just like the way Germany was? Again, I don't understand the
        Sun commercial. It's too sophisticated for the average American Joe like
        \_ ein internet, ein sprache, ein fuhrer
2022/01/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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