Reference History WW2 - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    

2009/12/24-2010/1/19 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:53600 Activity:nil
12/21   http://entrepreneur.venturebeat.com/2009/12/18/the-secret-history-of-silicon-valley
        Why Stanford >> Berkeley when it comes to entrepreneurialship
        and much better connections to angels + VCs. It goes all
        the way back to the 50s.
2007/12/18-20 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:48822 Activity:nil
12/17   How to cross the border 101. Be as creative as you can. Vote
        on your favorite answers:
        \_ Operation Human Wave: Amass 1 million Mexicans on the borders.
           On your mark, get set, CROSS! They can stop a few, but they
           can't stop a million! Worked great in WW2, Vietnam and Korean War.
           \_ Worked great at the end of the movie "Born in the West LA" too.
           \_ Worked great at the end of the movie "Born in East L.A." too.
        \_ Wear anti-infrared clothings. US Agents are known to use
           infrared cameras at night time.
        \_ Walk across like everyone else does.  Bring a lot of water.
        \_ Walk through customs along with all of the other tourists. Dress
           nicely.
2007/11/1 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:48507 Activity:nil
11/1    Guys, WW2 is over. Move on man.
2007/10/27-11/1 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Reference/History/WW2] UID:48464 Activity:nil
10/27   Why are there so many WW2 games? 1/2 of the first person shooter
        games are based in/around WW2 theatres. What happened to WW1?
        Why are there no trench war, gas mask, chem gas games
        \_ There are a few realistic WW1 Dreamcast games for the Japanese
           market that involve driving your tank somewhere for hours
           and hours staring at a tiny box on the screen representing your
           limited view of the outside world if you're a tanker...
           then suddenly you die and you have no idea what
           hit you, the end.  hours of enjoyment
        \_ Because getting killed from dysentery or other diseases, rat bites,
           shell shock, and getting mowed down by emplaced machine gun nests
           as you run across a large, open, muddy field in yet another
           pointless charge, your corpse left hanging in barbed wire as you
           bleed out just doesn't sound all that much fun to most people.
           WW1 was way up there on stupidly fought wars.  Go read up on the
           French officer's revolt and how that ended.
           \_ Yeah, and besides that the war was mostly pointless. Compared
              with WW2, WW1 had no real cause or glory to it at all. The
              propaganda was lame and the USA was a minor player overall.
              WW2 and the 50's were the golden age of the USA.
        \_ At a guess, because the "really cool" weapons start surfacing in
           WW2. Let's see: automatic weapons vs. mustard gas, which is sexier?
           \_ Nukes are either boring game enders or so unimpressive in most
              games you're better off not bothering.  Mustard gas could have
              some cool in-game effects.  Decreased LOS, slower movement,
              semi-random movement, damage over time, wind can cause it to
              drift to other places including back over your own lines (which
              really happened in WWI), gravity causing the gas to flow down
              slopes, etc.  Nukes?  BOOM!  Stuff is dead.  Whatever.  Zzzzz,
              IMHO.
              \_ "Atomic" != "Automatic"
                 \_ Oops.  Back to Reading 1A for me.  Anyway, I'd still
                    prefer mustard gas over playing rat-tat-tat.wav.
        \_ I really miss the old PC game "Total Annihilation".  Is Supreme
           Commander any good?
           \_ I didn't really like it that much.  SC is TA-like, but not TA.
              The game is all about building out the tech 4 super units as
              fast as possible then stomping the enemy base with them before
              they do the same to you.  The tech 1 and most tech 2 units are
              unworthy of production.  They get swept aside in combat.  The
              tech 3 are ok.  You'll probably want a bunch to help your tech 4
              fight off their tech 4, otherwise they're mostly useless too.
2007/10/2-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Reference/History/WW2] UID:48224 Activity:moderate
10/2    Check this out, it's awesome:
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21105586
        Ratio of wounded in action to killed in action:
        WW2: 1 killed to 2.40 wounded
        Vietnam: 1 to 3.12
        Current: 1 to 8.3
        \_ All Hail Western Medical Science!  Amen!
           \_ If you stick a tube in a vegetable, it'll be alive
              indefinitely. Case in point... the veggy woman case.
        \_ A lot more soldiers get wounded than before?  "Ouch, I just got
           poked by that cactus and my pinky is bleeding.  I'm out of the
           mission."
           \_ No, it is really because doctors can patch up and save the lives
              of soldiers with all sorts of gruesome wounds that would have
              been certain death in Vietnam or WW2.  Same thing for Vietnam
              vs. WW2.  If you go back to the Civil War, things we consider
              a scratch or minor wound would be almost certain death.
              \_ Advances in medicine certainly helped a lot, but it's not the
                 only thing going on.  For one thing, the ammunition size
                 has decreased over the years (we used to use 7.62 rounds in
                 our assault rifles).  The decrease was driven by limits on
                 soldier carrying capacity (as soldiers were called upon to
                 carry more and more equipment), by the fact that the
                 crucial thing is to disable, not kill, and by noting that
                 most engagements were fought at distances where larger
                 rounds were not necessary to achieve decent ballistics.
                   -- ilyas
                 \_ Uhm... ok *our* rounds are smaller but doesn't it really
                    matter what the *other* guys are using?  I suspect your
                    typical AlQ/Iraqi/Whatever gun toter is not carrying the
                    same load as an American solider in combat.
                    \_ The russians moved to a similar smaller round (which
                       is what the AK-74 fires).  There are still a lot of
                       AK-47s in circulation in Iraq, of course.  My point is,
                       the reduced fatalities are not due to medical advances
                       alone, but the changing realities of modern engagements.
                         -- ilyas
                       \_ "Alone"? No.  But a huge and seriously major part of
                          the reason why more solider survive combat wounds?
                          Absolutely.  Think of the Civil War era.  Shoot one
                          of those poor no-medical-bastards with a round of
                          any size you like.  The odds that what we now think
                          of as a simple infection kills them is extremely
                          high.  It doesn't matter how big a wound.  Medicine
                          gets better every year and what used to mean death
                          is now a routine fix.
           \_ Let's not let justified loathing of the war diminsh the
              achievements of the people fighting to keep our soldiers alive.
              I'm against the war, but I think the advances in medicine have
              been amazing and laudable.
              \_ I don't think anyone was dimishing medicines achievements.
                 Without them there'd be a lot more dead soldiers and others.
2007/9/6-10 [Reference/History/WW2, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:47924 Activity:nil
9/6     What are some "real" advantages of global warming? I'll start:
        \_ Lost airmen from WW2 are being found! Yes!
        \_ Canadians heating bills will decrease!
        \_ Ice road truckers will have to get real jobs
        \_ Go swiming at beaches year round.  And beaches will be much closer
           to your home due to rising sea level.
        \_ No more pesky polar bears to worry about.
        \_ Northwest passage will be open year round.
        \_ Arctic oil will be easier to drill, accelerating the process.
        \_ Fur demand will go down, saving the endangered species.
2007/7/7-11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:47217 Activity:nil
7/7     I just saw Band of Brothers. Curahee!! Like I said,
        German artillery is the best.
        \_ D-Day Weekend on the History Channel.
        \_ In WW2, are parametics somehow magically exempt from getting
           targetted? German snipers could have easily picked them off
           but didn't. Why?
           \_ Who says they didn't?
           \_ Geneva convention, I guess.  Paramedics are not armed and
              fighting, although they are in uniform.
              \_ GC were violated all over the place by all parties in WW2.
           \_ my guess is that in the battle field, they were so busy killing
              those who has potential to threaten them (i.e. those in arms),
              that shooting parametics are simply very low on their priority.
              \_ I read something a few years ago that said most rounds fired
                 in WW2 weren't aimed at anyone in particular, just the
                 general direction of the enemy to get them to stay down and
                 not shoot back.
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    

2007/6/25-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:47068 Activity:low
6/26    I have concluded that the most effect troll baits are, in the
        order of effectiveness:
        -GWB & his Iraq War
        \_ you gotta admit, Iraq is a major issue.
        -WW2 superiority of Germans, Russians, Americans
        \_ i dont think that was such a bad troll.
        \_ That's not really a troll.  Apparently a few motders are WWII nuts,
           and like talking about WWII, but if you notice the discussion is
           very civil.
        -The superiority of suburbs vs. cities
        -I love I hate free market
        \_ Don't forget gun control, a frequent motd favorite
        \_ Don't forget "Is global warming real?", "Is global warming caused by
           human?" and "Is hybrid vehicles the/a/not a solution to global
           warming?"  A now-less effective troll is "Are we running out of
           oil?" which has been superceded by the global warming trolls.
                                \_ I found out today it's "superseded". who knew.
2007/5/15-17 [Reference/Military, Reference/History/WW2] UID:46651 Activity:nil
5/15    300 means more tourist business in Sparta:
        http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/15/europe/letter.php
        \- i thought that article was hilarious. i especially liked the
           "i suspect a band of gypsies".
2007/3/13-17 [Reference/History, Reference/History/WW2] UID:45947 Activity:kinda low
3/13    A historical perspective on the '300':
        http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/190493
        \_ Update - The Mercury News also had a nice graphic re the
           difference between the movie and reality:
        \_ Update - The Mercury News had a nice graphic yesterday
           re the difference between the movie and reality:
           link:preview.tinyurl.com/24f6p4 (bayareanewsgroup.com) [PDF]
           NOTE: I just think the differences are interesting; I
           don't mean to imply that the movie/comic was bad b/c it
           is not historical accurate.
           Those interested in the history might want to netflix/buy
           the PBS series "The Greeks: Crucible of Civilization":
           http://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/htmlver/index.html
        \_ Miller and fans on the comic:
           http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3160167.html
           \- i thought it was kinda funny they bothered to get some details
              like the lambda on the spartan sheilds [for Lakedaimon, which
              is also what is used instad of Sparta in the famous couplet
              by Symonides], as well some matters with the long spear and
              the short sword, the storm that destroyed part of the fleet
              [although there some chronology and location issues there],
              but they put them in those creepy black briefs instead of armor.
              Was that a decision to appeal to women and gaylords or what?
              BTW, was the dood who loses an eye and then appears at the end
              at the Battle of Plataea supposed to be Pausanias or just
              some random? I also thought Leonidas' Scottish accent was
              hilarious. I was hoping Sean Connery would have made a cameo...
              maybe as Darius ... or as Xerxes ... they could have had a
              Highlander-style Immortal showdown. The also basically turned
              Ephialtes into Gollum ... he was a local, not a Spartan, and
              I cannot recall any mention that he was a hunchback. I was
              also disappointed with the famous well-scene.
              \_ http://leonidasaddressescongress.ytmnd.com
                 http://thisisspartaaa.ytmnd.com
                 \- except in sparta, if you didnt have enough $$$,
                    you lost your "right" to "hold the line" in battle,
       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartiates#Decline_of_the_Spartiate_class
                    where as in the us today, hardly any reasonably welloff
                    people are on the battle line. well i guess exept for
                    their slaves they dragged into battle and used for
                    fodder ... oh maybe we do have something in common with
                    the Lakedaimonians.
              \_ The movie is an adaptation of the comic book 300, not the
                 historical incident as recorded by Herodotus or Thucydides.
                 It is a very faithful adaptation of the comic, in much the
                 same way that Sin City was faithful. For the most part, it's
                 an excercise in style. Miller's a fascinating study in
                 both good and bad research, liberal and libertarian and
                 even conservative values, and the occasional good story.
                 Comparing 300 to the actual history is much like comparing
                 Hamlet to actual Danish history (with apologies to Mr.
                 Shakespeare re: comparing 300 to Hamlet). --erikred
                 \- you're making a rather obvious point. it's still an
                    interesting exercise to look at what is and what is
                    not accurate. just like it is reasonable to tell
                    somebody "there really is an elsinore (kronborg)
                    castle." also, in my opinion, there is a "yeah whatever"
                    type of hollywood license [like suggesting william
                    wallace slept with the queen of england ... something
                    nobody watching braveheart probably really believed],
                    and sort of "irresponsible revisionism" [like suggesting
                    the americans did the heavy lifting in breaking the
                    enigma cipher ... didnt u-571 suggest some such thing?].
                    this movie was so trivial, comments like "the spartans
                    championed freedom and reason against the despotic,
                    decadent persians, while the atheians didnt do anything
                    because they were busily engaged in juvenile gaylordism"
                    are more risble ["and we laughed and laughed"] than
                    offensive ... unless maybe you are an athenian or
                    iranian. how many people even realized that WAS
                    a lambda on the shield, and not just a chevron or
                    some other design.
                    \_ I'm pointing out that the lack of armor is due to there
                       not being armor on the characters in Miller's comic.
                       Ditto for elements of grotesquery. I enjoy the pointing
                       out of historical deviations as much as the next geek,
                       but I thought I'd point out that your quibbles are with
                       the comic the movie is based on, not some sort of
                       historical recreation on the part of the movie.
2006/10/23-24 [Reference/History, Reference/History/WW2] UID:44918 Activity:nil
10/23   "What have we learned from history?"
        http://www.glumbert.com/media/trojanhorse
        \_ In order to learn from history one must have actually
           learned history in the first place.
        \_ What have we learned from mythology or the classics
           would be a more appropriate caption. AFAIK, there is
           no archaeological or historical basis for the story
           of the trojan horse.
           \_ Quotes added to denote title of program.
           \_ It wasn't that long ago, historically speaking, that
              Troy itself was thought to be mythical as there was no
              archaeological or historical basis for the entire city.
              And then someone dug it up.
              \_ If you are talking about Hisarlik, my understanding
                 is that there is still some debate about whether it
                 was the real location of Troy and/or the site of the
                 Torjan War.
                 \_ Debate?  Who is saying it isn't so?  Anyway, 'some debate'
                    doesn't mean it isn't true.  There is 'some debate' about
                    human caused global warming, too, but that debate is over.
2006/10/7-10 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:44711 Activity:nil
10/7    Spitfire vs. P51 one on one, which one will win?
2006/8/22-24 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:44094 Activity:nil
8/22    RIP Stargate SG-1
        \_ At the end of the season.
           \_ Please please please have them wrap this up in some way that
              makes sense.
              \_ I predict we'll invade the Ori-held planets and bomb
              \_ I predict we'll invade the Aurii(sp?)-held planets and bomb
                 them until they come to love and appreciate us, winning their
                 hearts and minds and thus vanquishing our enemy.
                 \_ What are you trying to do, MAKE me wish the series would
                    die?
                 \_ You mean like in WW2?
              \_ The only thing I think would make sense is for something to
                 happen to spur the ancients to action against the Ori.
              \_ Well the stargate system turns out to be something like a
                 child's toy from another dimension.  Having outgrown it, the
                 child puts it aside where it eventually collapses.  All SG
                 faring races blame each other which is the start of the first
                 and last multi-galactic war.  All life in the universe is
                 destroyed.  Except for the hot chicks, of course.  The end.
        \_ At least SciFi hasn't taken away Atlantis' ZedPM:
           http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=37607
2006/6/29-7/3 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:43525 Activity:nil
6/29    Pretty cool Axis & Allies clone; allows for local & net play:
        http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki  -John
2006/5/30-31 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Reference/History/WW2] UID:43224 Activity:nil
5/30    Super Mario -- Communist Propaganda?
        http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12015  -John
        \_ Funniest shit I've ever seen on motd. Thanks so much John.
2006/5/22-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:43144 Activity:nil
5/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060522/od_nm/britain_potatoes_dc
        Potatoes may contain pieces of German ordnances from WW1 and WW2.
        \_ obPotatoMasher: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_24_grenade
2006/5/15-18 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:43055 Activity:nil
5/15    I'm involved with a mod of the EA Battlefield series ("involved" =
        agreed to do some poking around.)  They're looking for help with
        voice acting.  Unfortunately, being a mod and a free effort, they
        have no money to spend and are not allowed to ask for donations (EA
        license.)  They need voice clips of all the major WWII combatants, but
        having no money, have no access to good sound recording equipment.  I
        had the idea to ask around acting & broadcasting schools, as maybe
        students would be willing to trade some work and access to facilities
        for screen credit.  I have no idea how these things usually work,
        though.  Can someone give me some pointers of where to ask?  -John
        \_ No clue but how the hell did you get contacted? I'm jealous
           \_ I play it a lot and asked if I could help...why?  -John
2006/3/27-29 [Science/Physics, Reference/History/WW2] UID:42450 Activity:kinda low
3/27    This is a very stupid and specific question regards to design
        of main battle tank:
        why the main gun of most of main battle tank in the world are
        smoothbored instead of rifled?
        \_ Just a guess but the advent of laser guided missiles obviated the
           need for point-to-point riffled payloads. In another word there
           is no longer a clear need for line-of-sight with modern missiles.
        \_ I'm not an MBT designer, but I would guess that they're able to
           accomplish the desired accuracy/range with a smoothbore, and a
           rifled shell has less explosive power (because it needs a heavier
           casing to withstand the greater stress of the rotation). Mortars
           shells contain more explosive than equivalent-sized artillery shells
           for the same reason (which makes them particularly deadly for
           urban fighting). Oh, and the M1 (but not the A1 or A2 variants)
           and the new Stryker multi-tank-thing, plus the British Leopard and
           a few others, all have rifled cannon. -gm
        \_ Find-stabilized shells, among others.  Not all MBT barrels are
           smoothbore (examples are Rheinmetall 120mm and several of the
           newer Soviet ones.)  What above poster said too, but it's not so
           much the explosive power as for accuracy of heavier shells.  Also
           rifled barrels wear out faster.  -John
        \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoothbore
           \_ thanks.  This is cool.
        \- Hello, I too am not a MBT designer but having some knowledge of
           EULER && LAGRANGE && NEWTON, I suspect the Moments of Inertia
           which would characterize a tank shell would suggest it would not
           be amenable to rotional stabilization as a small, cigar shaped
           shell would be. For a discussion accessible to a science undergrad
           see e.g. http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/336k/lectures/node74.html
           particlarly the two conclusions at the bottom of the page. For a
           more involved discussion, see the famous: http://csua.org/u/fc6
           A simple demonstration of this can be done with a bed pillow
           which isnt too floppy. say it is 20" long, 14" wide and 6" deep.
           which isnt too floppy. say it is 2ft long, 1.5ft wide and 6in deep.
           if you throw it up in the air in front of you spinning about each of
           the possible axes, you will notice it is obviously less stable when
           you spin it about the 1.5ft axis or "middle" Moment of Inertia axis.
           you spin it about the 14" or "middle" Moment of Inertia axis.
           This is actually something pretty cool to prove, rather than just
           one of these artificial physics problems. And now we can talk about
           THE FEYNMAN SPRINKLER.
           \_ My classical mechanics text called this The Tennis Racket Theorem.
              I tend to think a better example is with skateboards. Rotating
              around the principle axis with the smallest moment of inertia
              is a kickflip, rotating around the axis with the largest moment
              of inertia is a varial or a shove-it, but the unstable middle
              axis is called the "ollie impossible" for good reason.  Both
              the kickflip and the varial can be done by just kicking the
              board and landing, but the impossible generally involves guiding
              to board around with your foot to keep it stable.  At least that's
              how I do it.  I could kickflip and varial years before I learned
              the imposible, which I think you'll find is typical of most
              skaters.  Of course I could do all three years before I
              knew what a moment of inertia tensor was or could prove the
              tenis racket theorem.
           \_ My classical mechanics text called this The Tennis Racket
              Theorem. I tend to think a better example is with
              skateboards. Rotating around the principle axis with the
              smallest moment of inertia is a kickflip, rotating around the
              axis with the largest moment of inertia is a varial or a
              shove-it, but the unstable middle axis is called the "ollie
              impossible" for good reason.  Both the kickflip and the varial
              can be done by just kicking the board and landing, but the
              impossible generally involves guiding to board around with
              your foot to keep it stable.  At least that's how I do it.  I
              could kickflip and varial years before I learned the
              imposible, which I think you'll find is typical of most
              skaters.  Of course I could do all three years before I knew
              what a moment of inertia tensor was or could prove the tenis
              racket theorem.
              \- Oh, i havent heard that name. what CM text? that is a pretty
                 good name, although since a rackt isnt symmetric in one of
                 the axes, people may get distracted by that. i didnt claim
                 a pillow was the best object to demonstrate, but i think more
                 people on the motd have a pillow than a skateboard. but sure,
                 i think people have an intuitive sense of the instability of
                 of the "middle rotation" with the s'board and racket. i always
                 liked the calculations/proofs that had physical interp ...
                 kepler planet laws, calculate escape velocity, period of a
                 pendulum indep of mass ... more than the contrived problems.
                 \_ Barger and Olsson, which I loathed.
                    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0070037345/sr=8-2/qid=1143569740/ref=sr_1_2/103-6187066-5024642?%5Fencoding=UTF8
                    I really liked that class, and learned from a mix of
                    different books plus lecture, but I do not recomend this
                    book except for a couple random topics.  I see what you
                    mean about pillow vs. skateboard.  I guess my point is
                    that while the typical pillow user does not do a whole
                    lot of rotational mechanics experiments, the typical
                    skateboard user spends hours and hours conducting those
                    experiments and develops a certain intuition about it.
                 \_ I replied earlier and it got deleted.  The text was
                    Barger and Olson[sp?], which I do not recommend.  The class
                    kicked ass, but that text was overall pretty weak.  I see
                    what you mean about more people having access to a pillow.
                    My arguement is that while there are fewer skateboard users
                    than pillow users, most pillow users rarely do rotational
                    mechanics experiments with their pillows whereas skaters
                    spend so much time doing these experiments that they have
                    multiple names for all three of the principle axes.  Also,
                    I think a lot of non-skaters now know what the kickflip
                    and the ollie impossible are because of that Tony Hawk
                    video game.
                    \- oh, i have not heard of that book. i didnt think
                       MARION and THORNTON was that exciting. GOLDSTEIN
                       was really good but pretty hard. herstein:algebra::
                       goldstein::mechanics. VI ARNOLD was life changing, but
                       really that is an EVANS HALL book not a LECONTE book.
                       have you also used LANDAU and LIFSHITZ? I have only
                       analyized their awesome Stat Mech book, but their
                       Classical Mech book is also supposed to be awesome.
                       BTW, the AMAZONG comments for some of these books
                       are pretty funne, esp for MISNER && THORNE && WHEELER.
                       oh, i suppose you can alos do the "tennis racket"
                       experiment with an UNOPENED CEREAL BOX.
                       One of my favorite AMAZONG comments is from UCB
                       MONSTER FIELDS PROFESSOR about BOGOLIUBOV QFT book
                       at: http://csua.org/u/ahe
                       \_  I think the Jackson comments on Amazon are some of
                           the funniest.  Also the comments on Wolfram's
                           latest doorstop are hillarious.  Yeah, L&L rules.
                           I used that a bit during the course.  Where you a
                           physics major, or are you just into it for fun?
                           \_ started in physics but didnt want to do 111
                              and a year of 110 [i spent some time designing
                              the polarimetery system of a satellite so i
                              got enough EM on the job] so ended up doing
                              a lot of work in smplectic geometry and
                              ergodic theory and lie algebras.
           \_ thanks... i flunked my Fizzix 7A :p
           \_ I tried the pillow experiment.  That is cool.
2005/7/29 [Reference/Military, Reference/History/WW2] UID:38876 Activity:low
7/28    John, this is for you... on the reference of ww2
        "Nippon's true aim in the prosecution of the Greater East
        Asia War is the maintenance of self-existence and self-defense
        for the Empire and the emancipation of the peoples in Greater
        East Asia from the yoke of the United States and Britain.
        This sacred war aim is recognized by all human beings on
        earth. There is a world of difference between our war aim
        and that of the United States and Britain.
        \_ Yeah, and it was war necessity to kill and rape 300k civilians in
           the city of Nanjing in order to achieve this.
           \_ Sometimes you must choke a dog in order to give it medicine.
2005/7/23-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:38794 Activity:low
7/23    For ilyas: WWII as an MMORPG chat transcript.
        http://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/military_jokes_20057151.asp
        \_ Far be it from me to be an expert on 'what kids these days say,'
           but this is Counterstrike slang.  Thanks though. -- ilyas
           \_ what?
        \_ no, an RTS chat transcript
        \_ As that host seems to be down, you might be interested in WW2
           online, and "Forgotten Hope", an excellent BF1942 mod.  Many of the
           kiddies in the forums seem to be reasonably knowledgeable.  -John
        \_ They got some order of things wrong (Barbarossa was before Pearl
           Harbor, for example) but it is still pretty funny.
        \_ ROTFLMAO!!! LOLZ!
2005/7/23-26 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:38793 Activity:nil
7/23    I just finished reading Citizen Soldiers by Stephen E. Ambrose.
        It's a sort of GI view history of WWII in Europe from D-day to
        V-E day.  I thought it was pretty good, very balanced and has a
        lot of good stories.
        \_ Look at The Good War by Studs Terkel, Once There Was A War by
           John Steinbeck, Guadalcanal Diary by Richard Tregaskis, Ernie Pyle's
           War, by Ernie Pyle, and any WWII cartoons by Bill Mauldin--I think
           you might enjoy them all tremendously.  -John
2005/7/20-21 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:38723 Activity:moderate
7/20    James Doohan, RIP.  Insert obligatory Scotty jokes here.
        \_ He's been beamed up?
        \_ Guess there were some miracles he couldn't work.  (laddie)
        \_ If life was a TNG episode, they'd just manipulate a previously
           unknown effect of dilithium crystals, the transporter, and a
           newly discovered time travel effect in order to bring him back to
           life.
        \_ Damn, the guy was machine gunned down trying to take Juno beach
           during D-Day. I guess Scotty was pretty tough after all.
                \_ The shot that went for his chest was blocked by his
                   cigarette case ... So smoking CAN be healthy.
                   \_ Wearing body armor is even MORE healthy.
                      http://gojackarmy.castpost.com/156.html
                        \_ What %tage of WWII soldiers had body armor?
                           \_ You are one piss-poor troll.
                   \_ Nah, but carrying a cigarette case can be.
                        \_ How many nonsmokers carry cigarette cases?
2005/5/30-31 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:37889 Activity:nil
5/30    Happy Memorial Day. It's pretty cool to see so many ads for
        Call of Duty (ext pack) and Medal of Honor Pacific Assault, which
        coincides with Memorial Day. Here's a pretty cool marketting idea
        for EA. They should hire a real WW2 vet who says "I'm a real vet
        and I aprove this game. Sempre Fi!"
        \_ PA and all the CoDs are awesome (I think.)  Especially the
           atmosphere in PA is amazing.  -John
2005/4/24-25 [Reference/Celebration, Reference/History/WW2] UID:37339 Activity:low
4/24    Today is the 90th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide.
        \_ Yay!  Let's celebrate!
        \_ We don't care.  Especially when Turkey is our ally.  Just like
           how we don't care about Japan's war atrocities in WW2.
           \_ How you dare sarcatsic equate little Turkey domestic problem
              with China legitimate national grievance?  Typical american.
              \_ You've obviously never served.
              \_ bad fake chicom troll.
2005/4/19-21 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:37273 Activity:high
4/19    Related to the poll below re which era you would like to visit.
        If you could go back in time and witness one battle which one
        would you pick?  Personally I'd choose the Battle of Marathon.
                  \- i assume you have read your herodotus. you might
                     read s. pressfield: gates of fire if you have not
                     already. in a different time, if interested in battle
                     details and a story better than da vinci code, see
                     e.g. "the archers tale" by bernard cornwell. decent quick
                     pulp read ... long description of crecy. and of course
                     A Distant Mirror is a classic. have not read Solider
                     in the Fog. btw, thucydides >>>> herodotus. ok tnx.
              \- Why marathon and not thermopylae?
                     O xein angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti tede
                     keimetha tois keinon rhemasi peithomenoi
                 Might pick Agincourt or Crecy, maybe Zama or Gaugmela,
                 Cannae or Teutoberger Wald/Clades Variana, Pharsala or
                 Actium or Salamis. --psb
                 \_ iirc, Marathon came first and basically ensured
                    that Greek civilization (specifically Athens)
                    would survive. Also Marathon was a real victory
                    in which the good guys mostly walked away unscathed
                    vs. Thermopylae in which the good guys (Leonidas
                    and the 300 Spartan Hoplites) got killed.
                    \- i thought you were going for the drama factor. um,
                       "good guys" here is clearly a "relative term". if you
                       are filled with hate for persians, set your time
                       machine to gaugmela. i think it would be pretty cool
                       to hang out with agricola or marcus aurelius or any of
                       the "good emperors" for a season. i suppose it might
                       be horribly fascinating for some to see what exactly
                       tiberius did after retiring to capri. tagging along
                       for the melian dialog would be pretty amazing.
                       cannae would be more interesting than marathon. --psb
        \_ The one where the Romans attacked Syracuse and got their asses
           kicked by devices designed by Archimedes. That would have to have
           been a good day to be a nerd.
                  \- i assume you have read your herodotus. you might
                     read s. pressfield: gates of fire if you have not
                     already. in a different time, if interested in battle
                     details and a story better than da vinci code, see
                     e.g. "the archers tale" by bernard cornwell. decent quick
                     pulp read ... long description of crecy. and of course
                     A Distant Mirror is a classic. have not read Solider
                     in the Fog. btw, thucydides >>>> herodotus. ok tnx.
              \- Why marathon and not thermopylae?
                     O xein angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti tede
                     keimetha tois keinon rhemasi peithomenoi
                 Might pick Agincourt or Crecy, maybe Zama or Gaugmela,
                 Cannae or Teutoberger Wald/Clades Variana, Pharsala or
                 Actium or Salamis. --psb
                 \_ Why the FUCK is it so hard for you to indent like a normal
                    person?
                    \_ emacs is lame.
                    \- E_FOOLISHCONSISTENCY
                 \_ iirc, Marathon came first and basically ensured
                    that Greek civilization (specifically Athens)
                    would survive. Also Marathon was a real victory
                    in which the good guys mostly walked away unscathed
                    vs. Thermopylae in which the good guys (Leonidas
                    and the 300 Spartan Hoplites) got killed.
                    \- i thought you were going for the drama factor. um,
                       "good guys" here is clearly a "relative term". if you
                       are filled with hate for persians, set your time
                       machine to gaugmela. i think it would be pretty cool
                       to hang out with agricola or marcus aurelius or any of
                       the "good emperors" for a season. i suppose it might
                       be horribly fascinating for some to see what exactly
                       tiberius did after retiring to capri. tagging along
                       for the melian dialog would be pretty amazing.
                       cannae would be more interesting than marathon. --psb
        \_ Anything big in WWII (assuming I get my invisible bullet-proof
           flying bubble to watch it from.)  -John
2005/4/17-18 [Academia, Reference/History/WW2] UID:37230 Activity:nil
4/17    Lost Greek plays rediscovered:
        http://tinyurl.com/b3hv2 (news.independent.co.uk)
        \_ This is really cool.
        \_ "Oxford academics have been working alongside infra-red
            specialists from Brigham Young University, Utah." I hope they're
            not using magic stones to do the translation.
2005/1/22-24 [Reference/History/WW2, Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:35860 Activity:insanely high
1/22    Can anyone give advice for preparation for the US citizenship interview
        questions?
        \_ It's nothing to worry about. All you need to do is memorize
           the answers to the 3 pages of questions in
           http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/100q.pdf. From my
           experience, that of everyone I've talked to (half a dozen people),
           and some vague suggestions to that extent on their website,
           they always just pick a subset of those questions. This is
           presuming that you're talking about the US history/government quiz
           rather than the standard set of "are you a communist?"-like
                                            \- No one expects, the America
                                            \- No one expects, the American
                                               Inquisition. --psb
                                        \_ They sometimes ask whether you
                                           support communism or are sympathetic
                                           to any communist party.  You are
                                           free to believe, but some belief is
                                           less free than others.
                                           \_ Obviously.  Some ideologies
                                              (militant islam and communism)
                                              are 'hegemonizing.'
                                              \_ so this is a commie country?
                                                 \_ The point just whizzed by
                                                    your head, didn't it?
           questions that comprise the rest of the interview. The latter
           are nothing to worry about unless you've got something to hide.
           \_ Ok, thanks.
        \_ if it's Canadian, you can try this:    http://tinyurl.com/6gy4u
           [it's simply a joke of the day]
2005/1/21 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:35852 Activity:nil
i/21    Another related article, especially for the "Useful Idiot" lefty
        on the MOTD who regurgitates everything that Mike Moore says:
        http://paulgraham.com/say.html
        \_ "Let's start with a test: Do you have any opinions that you
           would be reluctant to express in front of a group of your
           peers?  If the answer is no, you might want to stop and
           think about that. If everything you believe is something
           you're supposed to believe, could that possibly be a
           coincidence? Odds are it isn't. Odds are you just think whatever
           you're told."
           He definitely has the Limbaugh trick of starting with a ridiculous
           assertion down.  -tom
           \_ So, why would this be a ridiculous assertion? Do you actually
              believe whatever you are taught to believe? If so, then you
              really do have a small mind, which many on the MOTD have already
              suspected of you. Of course, your failure to understand and
              participate in real discourse is legend. Anyway, the article is
              a-political. It merely points out the fact that people like you
              are merely monkeys trained to think the way you do and have
              never had a real independent assertion in your life.
           \_ I don't know if Limbaugh has the monopoly on that.  But it's the
              false dichotomy that amuses me.  Another reason you might not
              have a problem stating what you believe is that you're
              self-confident (that is, you know people will disagree, but you
              don't care).
              \_ So in other words you are a coward.
           \_ What is an example of such an opinion? That he likes little boys?
2005/1/20 [Reference/History, Industry/Startup, Reference/History/WW2] UID:35829 Activity:kinda low
1/20    Why do people bid up items past its Buy It Now Price?
        \_ why does the interface allow them?  shouldn't it just BUY NOW
           as soon as they reach the 'buy now' price?
           \_ once you start bidding on a Buy Now item, the Buy Now option
              goes away (unless there is a reserve)
        \_ The buy it now price is generally set above the opening bid.  Once
           someone bids for the item the buy it now option generally goes
           away.  Basically, the seller is hoping someone is desperate and
           will immediately pay more for the item.  The bidders, by bidding
           instead of paying the buy it now price, are hoping no one else will
           want it badly too.  Sometimes bidders miscalculate and there is
           a bidding war ... On some items the buy it now price is the same
           or just pennies above the opening bid, meaning the seller
           essentially just wants to sell the item for price X.  If someone
           bids on that one, then they are morons.
           \_ yeah, well the exception to this is that the supply is so great
              (for example I was buying a popular DVD movie) that even when
              you've been outbidded, you can just go to the next item. This is
              effective when the item is popular and when you're really cheap
              and want to save a buck or two.
2005/1/17-18 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:35741 Activity:low
1/16    Are harddrives 100.00% axis-independent? In another word, will
        they get 100.00% same efficiency/reliability if you run them
        the right side up, up side down, side-ways, etc?
        \_ The chimp says ***Evil Axis*** must die
        \_ No, they're only 99.99% axis- independent. Due to gravity there
           are slight fluctuations on the rotational axis of the drive which
           the internal logic attempts to compensate for, but is not 100%
           effective. Also, moving the drive around to different parts of
           the room will affect it because of the magnetic field of the earth.
           We spent about 10 years measuring this and we know that the
           effect can be as high as .0000001% of the drive speed. So, get
           out your magnenometer and start optimizing the placement of your
           hard drive!
2005/1/10-11 [Reference/History, Reference/History/WW2] UID:35640 Activity:high
1/10    Was there a real Trojan War?
        \_ Yes. -- ilyas
        \- google(schliemann, troy). Well, you can also read say MI Finley:
           World of Odysseus ... I believe some of the scholarship here is
           not quite up to date but it is pretty readable and should be
           fine for the basic stuff on the "world of the trojan war".
           The composition and authorship questions surrounding the Iliad
           has more uncertainty and is more interesting Q, IMHO.
           \_ An good books re Iliad/Oddessy authorship that you would
              recommend?
              \- if you live in berkeley, particularly if you are a
                 student, there are some good classes/teachers who
                 will cover the iliad, particularly say mark griffith.
                 i dunno if western civ 44a is still taught at berkeley
                 but that class gave a really fine introduction to homer,
                 attic drama, the peloponnesian war etc. of course the
                 reading list [of priamry material] was about 1.5ft high.
                 BTW, you may see this book prominently displayed in
                 bookstores: http://csua.org/u/ant Avoid it at all costs.
                 Well, if you know your stuff and want to get angry it may
                 be worth reading. The author says some really foolish
                 things and is basically unqualified to write on Homer.
                 I began a BLOGORANT on this in Aug'04 and will try to
                 finish it in Feb'05. Ok tnx. --pater andron te theon te
        \_ Perhaps. There is some evidence that Meleaus was a real Spartan
           king and that Agamemnon of Mycenea was powerful enough to have
           raised a fleet to sail to the Dardenelles. However there doesn't
           seem to be any proof that Helen (queen of Sparta) existed or
           that the Greeks sailed to the Dardenelles to recover her.The
           evidence seems to point to some sort of trade dispute. There
           is some proof that the Greeks won the war w/ Troy b/c there
           are mentions of slaves (mostly women) being brought from the
           near east to Sparta circa the time of the Trojan War. WRT the
           fall of troy as described by Homer, the Greeks were probably
           not responsible for the destruction of Troy 6 (Troy of the
           Sloping Walls), which is the city that existed at about the
           time that the Trojan War is supposed to have occured. An
           earthquake was probably responsible, though some believe that
           when Homer mentioned the power of Neptune as destroying Troy
           he ment an earthquake. As for Troy 7, it appears that it may
           have been under seige for some time and was finally sacked.
           Troy 7 seems to have been sacked some 100 yrs later than the
           Trojan War. If you are really interested in this but don't
           have time to read a book on the topic you can get a 1985 BBC
           documentary by Michael Wood. It is available on DVD (NetFlix
           has it).
           \_ good suggestion.  thanks.
              \- the michael wood show was also turned into a book.
                 um, maybe this is a persinal bias but i'd learn the
                 two works well first and then worry about the anthropology
                 and philology. a lot of the technical discussion involves
                 knowning greek. many of the translations of the iliad and
                 odyssey have good enough introductions about the homer
                 question, notes on composition technique [the use of
                 epithets for metrical fits, ring composition, the work
                 of milman parry etc]. after reading the poems 3 or 4 times
                 you might look at Nagy: Best of the Achaeans and maybe
                 Jasper Griffin: Homer of Life and Death. A ton of stuff
                 Jasper Griffin: Homer on Life and Death. A ton of stuff
                 has been written on Homer ... from ancient commentary
                 to endowed lectures at berkeley. As Jasper Griffin writes
                 in the intro to the book mentioned above, "nobody who
                 writes on homer has read everything ... that has been written
                 about the poems" and that you need to pick what to read
                 based on your interest ... the works are so rich. if you
                 have some particular matter you are interested in, i may
                 have a more specific reference. [i dont know ancient greek,
                 so i am not familar with techical stuff that is language-
                 heavy]. --psb
                 \_ Have you read Lombardo's Iliad translation? I liked
                    it but I was wondering if there were better/more
                    accurate ones.
                    \-I have never heard of the Lombardo trans. I own
                      Lattimore, Fagles, Fitzgerald, Mandelbaum(Ody),
                      and Pope(Iliad) among poetry translations. I have
                      some prose ones too [including one by T.E. Lawrence
                      (of Arabia)] but I would read one of the verse ones.
                      I dont think you can go wrong with any of those listed.
        \_ Trojan vs. Spartan.  Which is better?
           \_ Spartans. Hoplites were fearsome warriors.
           \_ Better at what? In fighting? Homer would probably go with the
              Spartans. In art, architecture, nobility, honoring the gods?
              Homer would have awarded that hands down to the Trojans.
           \_ I think neither can beat Kimono.
2004/12/8 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:35209 Activity:low
12/7    I bought several portable handwarmers from Restoration Hardware as
        Christmas gifts-- they're basically similar to Zippo lighters (where
        you fill the saturate the lower reservoir with lighter fuel, then light
        a wick of sorts on top).  Only thing is, it just won't fucking work.
        I'm nauseated by the fumes, my hands are covered with dry spots from
        spilled fluid, but I can't get the damn burner to stay lit without
        completely flaring up.  Is there any trick you need to do with new
        zippos?  thanks.
        \_ Son of a BITCH!  I just burnt my hand picking the damn thing up.
           I guess it's kinda lit...  hooray.
        \_ I bought a replica WWI trench lighter there several years ago
           and had the same problem with spilled fluid and fumes.  I think
           their stuff is just cheaply made, but it was a cool lighter.
        \_ Use the newer proheat reusable chemical hand warmers. Those
           things you have are basically wwII tech. Where are you
           that you need a handwarmer?
2004/11/12 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:34854 Activity:kinda low
11/12   Can somehow explain the theory of how an 80 year old WWII
        veteran can make a woman feel so bad that she wants to commit
        suicide?
        \_ train harder.  that's not what the sentence below is saying.
        \_ Here you go, you dumb bitch:
           http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/11/12/MNGTJ9QGVV1.DTL
2004/8/31 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Reference/History/WW2] UID:33245 Activity:high
8/31    Battlefield Vietnam is AWSOME! I just downloaded the WW2 mod from
        EA and now I can play some of the BF1942 maps. It is really really
        nice. It's like buy 2 games for the price of 1, with a LOT of
        improvements.
        \_ You did not deserve to download that mod and are unfit to play
           multiplayer. -Battlefield Vietnam Veterans for Truth
           \_ Okay that was pretty funny.
                \_ http://tinyurl.com/67x4j
                   http://www.gengamers.com/html/bv-27.html
        \_ the Napalm on the F4-- totally useless
           the mortars-- hard to aim, the range of harm is limited. USELESS
           heat seeking missiles-- totally cool
        \_ Do you get a purple heart for suffering 1 point of damage from
           your own grenade you threw when you thought someone was there,
           but actually no one was shooting at you?
           \_ Use your name, coward, so I can mug you and make an imprint
              of my dad's purple heart in your forehead with a bat.
              \_ tough guy!  reminds me of being 13 on a 300 baud modem when
                 everyone was telling their 'enemies' to show at some park but
                 no one ever did.
                 \_ actually when I was 15 and I had a fast 1200 baud
                   modem I tricked one of my enemies into showing up
                   at a restaurant (he stole my girlfriend so I made
                   up a fake girl account on a BBS that he visited
                   frequently) and he got really pissed that he waited
                   3 hours and asked me why I didn't show up and I
                   just wrote back "fuck off you pervert." That'll
                   show him not to steal other people's gf. Ah those were
                   the days
                   \_ You think you won that exchange? He waited three
                      hours in a restaurant and fucked your girl. Can
                      I get that special as well please? To go. Thanks.
                      \_ Women are property!  There's a strong conservative
                         value!
           \_ No, but you do get a silver star for valor with a "v" for valor
              on it which has never been issued.
        \_ So how many [DEM] JOhn_KErry players have you seen online?
           Do they run away after the first shot?
           \_ They kill [REP] and [VC] with their bare hands.
           \_ For some reason [REP] John_McCain always gets shot in the back by
              his clanmates.
              \_ You guys are awesome. This totally made my day.
2004/6/5-6 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:30625 Activity:kinda low
6/5     Happy D-Day Normandy Omaha Beach Carnage Landing Day! Do you
        personally know of anyone (grandpa, great grandpa, etc) who
        participated on D-Day?
        \_ It was roughly 7,000 dead on the first day alone.
        \_ No, but I visited all the battlefields in Normandy a few years
           ago.  It's absolutely horrific--you stand on the bluffs above
           Omaha and wonder who could survive that.  At Point du Hoc there's
           a huge pit you can go down into (ca. 15-20 feet deep) before you
           realize it's from a single 16" shell.  None of the documentaries
           I've seen do it justice.  -John
           \_ thanks for sharing this with us. Can you tell us more? Do you
              have a personal blog/picture/documentary you can share with
              us online? Thanks.
2004/6/1 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:30519 Activity:nil
6/2     You've got just over an hour to be patriotic then it's back to hating
        America in the morning.  Thank you.  Good night.
        \_ Actually Memorial day is about those who have died fighting in
           wars-- justified or not--waged by our country.  Patriotism has
           nothing to do with it.
           \_ sick bastard, you celebrate warring and not what the
           soldiers fought for? many vets are upset that they feel
           everything they died for in wwII is going to waste on scum
           like you
        \_ God bless the WW2 Veterans for fighting to preserve Democracy,
           to save the Jews, and to create wonderful games like Battlefield
           1942, Medal of Honor, and other great 3D shooter games.
2004/5/29 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:30487 Activity:nil
5/29    D-Day week on History channel. See carnage like you've never seen.
                                                        -WW2/Carnage Lover
2004/5/6 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:30057 Activity:high
5/6     If Congress approves the $25 Billion request from Bush for the Iraq
        War, total costs so far will equal $174 billion.  Contrast this with
        WWI which cost $199 billion in 2002 dollars.  How much was WWII?  I'm
        wondering how much it will take to equal all spending on all our
        wars in the 20th century, minus the Cold War of course.
        \_ Maybe stuff costs a lot more now than during the 40's even when you
           adjust for inflation?  I don't know, just a thought.
           Also, we are paying to rebuild a country.  I think the WWI cost
           is just to cost of defeating the German army.  Also, our military
           used less equipment back then than it does now.
           \_ Definitely, but it doesn't subtract from the enormity of the cost.
              The invasion and occupation has cost the same as the cost to
              police all the streets, administer all the laws, in every
              jurisdiction of the entire United States for a year.
        \_ In WW1, America didn't take the brunt of fighting. The French
           took the most. Started 1914, America joins 1917 after a slow
           buildup of diplomatic incidents. Armistice 1918. Versailles
           treaty sets up WW2. USA didn't occupy Germany.
        \_ GPS bombs cost a lot more than dumb bombs.  Also, casualties are a
           lot lower, partially due to the high-tech stuff.
2004/5/4-5 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:30007 Activity:very high
5/4     What important US event happened near the end of September 1776?
        \_ The first use of US-sponsored terrorism (the New York fire)?
           So google tells me. -- ilyas
           \_ Do you hate America???
              \_ If you tell me what America is, I will tell you if I hate it.
                   -- ilyas
                 \_ That sounds suspiciously like what a Communist would say
2004/5/4 [Recreation/Computer/Games, Reference/History/WW2] UID:29999 Activity:high
5/4     Historical strategy games buffs, play these two:
        (a) Europa Universalis 2, (b) Victoria.
        Steep learning curve, but very fun.  There is also a WWII one using
        the same engine, but that's probably not for everybody. -- ilyas
        \_ Are either of these free or Free?
           \_ No. -- ilyas
2004/4/13 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:29923 Activity:nil
4/13    US going to abandon South Korean allies.  Pulling out of DMZ this
        year.  Punishment for lack of support in Iraq?
        http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_3.html
2004/3/11-12 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:12627 Activity:high
3/11    What's your favorite War movie?  WWII Movie?
        Schindler's List doesn't count.
        \_ Patton
           \_ didn't that win Best Picture?
              \- if we are not victorious, let no man remain alive.
        \_ Six String Samurai
        \_ The Empire Strikes Back
           \_ we should add a separate category - sci fi epics/battles
        \_ Saving Private Ryan
        \_ Saving Ryan's Privates
        \_ Raiders of the Lost Ark
2004/3/11 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:12620 Activity:nil
3\11    Stop censoring WW2 posts, it's actually insightful to history
        dummies like me.                        -history dummy
        \_ Sorry, the motd is not allowed to be useful unless you are
           interested in how to J00S L1NUX or do your CS homework.
2004/2/5 [Reference/Military, Reference/History/WW2] UID:12104 Activity:nil
2/4     Just finished The Guns Of August by Barbara Tuchman.  Wow.  Highly
        highly recommended if you have any interest in WWI history.
        \- you may wish to read: E.H. Carr: Twenty Years Crisis --psb
        \_ hew strachan.  the first world war.  only volume 1 so far tho.
2004/1/26 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:11934 Activity:nil
1/25    Ok, I'm watching a documentary on WWII (on KCET) and it's ENTIRELY
        IN COLOR.  What the hell is going on?  It doesn't look like
        re-enactments; I'm seeing D-Day and hedgerows and concentration camps
        and incredibly thin prisoners an IT'S ENTIRELY IN COLOR.  Martin Sheen
        is narrating.
n       \_ maybe it's technicolor.
        \_ The world started turning color in the 40's.  War-torn areas changed
            first.  Haven't you read your Calvin and Hobbes?
        \_ maybe it's technicolor.
        \_ haven't you ever heard of History Channel's The Color of War?
           Cameras are in color.
           http://www.fsu.edu/~ww2/press_release.htm
        \_ there's been color, just that it's too expensive/too difficult
           so most of the film in that era has been B/W. Economics my friend.
           By the way Color of War is a really good documentary.
        \_ Pay attention to the tint/shading.  If it's sort of dusty matte,
           it's probably authentic.  Really bright, most likely colorized.
           Color film was developed in the late 1930s, and started being
           used for war footage around 1941-2.  -John
           \_ It's real color: http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight
2004/1/11 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:11748 Activity:nil
1/10    New low for idiotic use of the word "hacker."
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3385743.stm
        Beavis and Butthead start world war III from a payphone--news at 11.
2003/12/15-16 [Reference/History, Reference/History/WW2] UID:11463 Activity:nil
12/15   I don't understand the Trojan war. After the Greeks fought for 10
        years to rescue the pretty Helen of Troy, wouldn't she have already
        turned into a 30 year old hag making the Trojan Horse victory in vain?
        \_ Homeric allegory is lost on some people.
        \_ C'mon, it's principle of the thing.  Think of it like M$ stealing
           your code and you finally wrangling a paltry settlement out of
           them a decade later....
        \_ They were fighting for Agamemnon's honor as the king of the Greeks.
           Also, the looting and taking of all the other women.
        \_ you're forgetting about the Trojans' WMD.
           \_ women of mass destruction?
                    \- heh. --psb
              \_ if yer trojan springs a leak
        \_ I don't understand what's the big deal about the Iliad.  It bored
           me to tears.
              \- do you think this says more about you or the iliad?
                 Xalepa ta kala.
                 For discussion on the original question:
                 ~psb/MOTD/Iliad.commentarii          --psb
                  \_ Did you write this while in a cafe?
                     \- yes. why? were you watching me? --psb
                 \_ Did you mean: Xalapa ta kala  --obGoogle
                    \_ There is no one way to transliterate Greek into English
                       characters. "Chalepa ta kala" seems the most common.
                 \_ I like simple books like Old Man and Sea or Of Mice and
                    Men.  Being very old, I can see why Iliad is important, but
                    it is very boring and repetitive, and the whole plot line
                    could be summed up in half a page.  Granted, it's like a
                    poem, but a few hundred pages of repetitions?  Ugh!
           \_ If you think the Iliad is boring you should try a more modern
              adaptation: Ulysses.  Heh.  Let us know what you think.
              \_ I heard that's a very boring book too.  I remember Economist
                 saying that some think the author is just a con-artist with
                 a very large vocabulary.
                 \_ I read the Economist for all my ancient poetry and book
                    reviews.  Good plan.  I also make all my best meals from
                    their recipe section.
                    \_ A cauliflower is a cauliflower no matter how you cook
                       it.
           \_ for u then: http://troymovie.warnerbros.com/index_noflash.html
                \_ well I think it's gonna be a lame movie. They're frigging
                   fighting for a 30 year old hag. They could've spent 10
                   years doing something more constructive.
                   \_ funny thing for a 30 year old virgin to be saying...
              \_ Cool.  I would like to see the movie since I like "historical"
                 movies.  But that doesn't change my opinion of Iliad, whose
                 plot is just a small subplot of the whole Troy endeavor.
2003/12/10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:11388 Activity:high
12/9    If you dont' support us, you don't get the contract:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3305501.stm
        This is all good except USA is panhandling the very same
        nations which USA left out for reconstruction fund *AND*
        debt restrucuring.
        \_ Fuck em, if reconstructing their countries after WWII
           and footing the defense bill for the entire Cold War was
           not enough, let them rot in their socialists
           constructs. Next time they need help...
           \_ Err ... didn't know US helped reconstruct Russia
              after WWII, and helped Russia during Cold War.
              Must have been reading the wrong history books.
                \_ Russia refused Marshall plan aid;  it was offered.  Sent
                   billions worth of war material during WWII;  in return,
                   got its pilots interned.  The US also sold a bunch of
                   nuclear reactors and massive amounts of food to the USSR
        `          during the cold war.  Get over yourself.
                   And you, you illerate baboon, learn to troll.  I'm
                   disappointed, bad show.  1941, after years of lend-lease,
                   hardly counts as "very late".  I guess I should blame
                   the stellar chicom educational system for your poor grasp
                   of history and English grammar.  Idiot. _
                                                            \
              Must be reading the wrong histroy books.
                   \_ declared war in 1941, only after attacked.  not in
                      Africa until 1943.  By then Soviet Union already
                      won the war, with wermacht on full retreat in the
                      eastern front.  Me chicom?  Nah, me front line
                      troops against chicom unlike US stay home slackers
                      like yourself.
           \_ US is a fucking slacker during WWII, didn't
              join the fight against facism until very late.
              of defense.
              It is US who should thank these countries for
              serving as its front line troops and first line
              of defense.
              \_ Rest of the world is fucking slacker now, didn't join the
                 fight against religious fundamentalism at all. It is the
                 rest of the world who should thank the US for taking the
                 initiative.
              \- this is consistent with why i felt the UN should tell the US
                 "we have no interest in bailing you out" ... you got yourself
                 into the swamp, now you can pay for it with your blood,
                 treasure and possibly electoral votes. --psb
2003/8/9 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/History/WW2] UID:29291 Activity:nil
8/8 A very informative and alarming RealPlayer video about the revival of
        Communism in Venezuela and Latin America in general.  The first
        45 mins is all that isnecessary. Chavez has been providing air
        support for FARC guerrillas in Colombia.
        <DEAD>video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/gdrive/15days/e080503_venezuela.rm<DEAD>
        \_ oh no!  GASP!  COMMUNISM!  yawn.
                \_ Stalin, Pol Pot, the Stasi, the Cultural Revolution.
                   Yup. Communism is a laughing matter. Go read about
                   the purges, mass killings, prison camps and grow up.
                \_ 20th  Century Democide
                   http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
                   Communists / Socialists resposible for 120 million deaths
                   last century.
                \_ yeah all that money we spent to crush the soviets and hold
                   them back was wasted.  we just should've explained to them
                   that all we wanted was peace and a mcdonald's in red square
                   and they'd pull the tanks back from eastern europe, free
                   hungary and the czechs and hey what the hell, let the
                   ukranians go, too!  oh wait, all that only happened after
                   our system proved superior to their system and we were on
                   the verge of total war until then and would've been wiped
                   out if we hadn't destoyed them utterly.  i like your
                   deep and well thought out line of reasoning.  you're
                   special.  very special.  special K!
2003/6/7-8 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:28668 Activity:kinda low
6/7     First Wave at Omaha Beach - a recounting by military
        historian S.L.A. Marshall from 1960
        http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/60nov/omaha.htm
        \_ More dead rich white men tooting their horns about how bravely
           they murdered and oppressed a foreign peoples.
2003/3/14 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/History/WW2] UID:27695 Activity:high
3/13    A Short History of World War III
        http://www.partialobserver.com/ArticlePrint.cfm?ArticleID=653
        \_ He forgot the terrorist plot to flush out and impurify all of
           our precious bodily fluids.
           \_ name one thing that is wrong in the above article.
              \_ Where to begin... for one thing, the article lists
                 a bunch on random events and suggests that this is
                 evidence for a coordinated war against the US with
                 its roots in the Iranian revolution, without providing
                 any reason as to why we should connect these
                 events together. For another example of this sort
                 of thing, see:
                http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html
              \_ This is nothing like a World War. How is it like WWI or
                 WWII? It is more like the War of Spanish Succession
                 or to correctly include the religious element, The
                 Counter-Reformation. Hey, we even have Ashcroft
                 as Inquistor General! His babble about the 2.5%
                 should tip you off that he is a kook.
                 should tip you off that he is a kook. At least
                 he mentions the Thirty Years War at the end.
           \_ ever seen a terrorist drink a glass of water?
              \_  ever seen an elephant in an apple tree?
                  \_ ever watched Dr. Strangelove?
        \_ If you're not trying to genocide someone it isn't a World War
           quality war.  It's a police action at best these days.
2003/2/6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/History/WW2] UID:27317 Activity:very high
2/5     Question for you freepers: what's with all the reference to
        "commies" and "pinkos" on the site?  I thought communism was dead.
        \_ Communism was dead?  What about Cuba and North Korea?
                                \_ Don't forget China.
                                   \_ don't forget Berkeley
                                        \_ Real Communism hasn't yet
                                           been tried in Berkeley ;-)
                                           \_ They should.  They'd fall out
                                              of love with it FAST ENOUGH.
                                          \_ Real Communism never been tried
                                             anywhere.
         \_ What is wrong with Communism?
           \_ and the freepers who call everyone who dissagrees with them
              "commies" are saying that they're all in league with north
              korea or cuba?  are they really that dumb?
           controls their legislature.  CHINA, Argentina, SOuth Africa,
           \_ Who cares about N. Korea. That country's about to collapse
              under its own weight. Just give it some time. Cuba couldn't
              hurt the U.S. if its life depended on it. It's like a
              football player saying that an emaciated homeless person
              is a threat to his life.
        \_ Ok, then what is the difference between Communist / Socialist
           beliefs and a large contigent of the Democratic party?  Much of
           Europe is communist / socialist.  The French Communist Party,
           CHINA, Venezuela, SOuth Africa,
           numerous other countries in Africa, Brazil, are all communist
           or heading that way.
           \_ Are you really that stupid?
              \_ Yeah, probably.
                 \_ Start with http://csua.org/u/8e7
                    and see what Engels had to say about Socialism.
           \_ stop putting your mental diarrhea on the motd
                \_ Ok so I ask a question on the differences between
                   the Democratic platform and socialism, and the answer
                   is an insult.  FDR, the prototypical commie/socialist,
                   was jealous of Stalin because of he was much more
                   effective at government control.
                   FDR's administration was replete with communist
                   spies or sympathisers.   The ACLU, UN etc. were
                   all founded by Socialists or Communists.  Since I am so
                   naive, I'll ask the question again.  If you are
                   not Socialist, what are you? 'Progressive'.  And I guess
                   I really am this stupid as the rulers of the countries
                   I mentioned freely admit their intentions and political
                   affiliations.  So I guess Venezuela sending Cuba
                   free oil is meaningless?
2002/10/3 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:26090 Activity:high
10/3    Who is better in the Civil War:
        Gen Grant:
        Gen Lee:     .. General Lee Generally Generalleed better.
        Gen Sherman:
        Yermom:      .
        \_ Buy a history book.
2002/7/12-13 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:25341 Activity:high
7/12    Reign of Fire:
        Hands down the best post-apocalyptic dragon movie I can remember.  If
        you're looking for a coherent and well reasoned plot look elsewhere.
        But if you're looking for over 90 minutes of dialogue in
        unintelligible accents from the British Isles, this is the film for
        you!  And if you can't get enough of rubbing those smarmy Brits noses
        in the fact that we saved their asses in WWII, you can relive your
        fantasies all over again watching the Americans rub the Brits' noses
        in the fact that we saved them from extinction!  Take that you
        anti-run on sentence, proper grammar, Britons!
        Seriously though, good braindead dragon smashing fun.  Worth catching
        a matinee.  The dragons look very cool, and the way the dragon killers
        SUPPOSEDLY take down dragons is very cool.
        \_ What other post-apocalyptic dragon movies have there been?
           \_ Oh look, he got the joke...
           \_ Dungeons and Dragons
              \_ No, that's a SIGN of the apocalypse.
           \_ Thelma and Louise
        \_ this sounds a lot like nweaver.
2002/4/4-5 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:24328 Activity:nil
4/4     http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020404/pl_nm/crime_spying_report_dc_2
        "According to the report on the case, Russia formally complained to the
        United States that an FBI agent tried to sell secrets to Moscow, but
        the FBI was not able to identify the spy within its ranks, the Post
        said."  Why on earth would any country, even allies like Britain,
        complain to the US that someone is trying to sell them US secrets?  It
        doesn't make sense to me.
        \_ As a show of goodwill,  why not?
        \_ pretty sure he is a double agent?
        \_ He was selling them stuff they already had so it cost them nothing
           to turn his ass in and make them look good for free?
2002/2/28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Reference/History/WW2] UID:23994 Activity:very high
2/27    What's the best way to go about asking for nice keyboards and trays
        from your boss? And yes my wrists really hurt.
        \_ "My wrists are starting to hurt.  I need a better keyboard."
           They shouldn't take offense to that.
           \_ and if they do take offense, go to a doctor and try "My doctor
              says I'm permanently injured because of you, so I'll buy
              myself a new keyboard and tray with my huge worker's comp
              settlement."  -tom
           \_ Or you could do what a normal and reasonable person would do
              and just patiently explain to them it's a serious issue and
              you're "certain that the company doesn't want me to end up
              crippled and unable to work" because that'll get the point across
              without making you look like an asshole.  Also once you start
              making noise about lawyers you need to put up or shutup and
              you're fucking up your future at that job and any place else you
              run into those people in the future at other companies.  After
              that you're not good for anything but working for the government
              or university or maybe some lab.  Just be nice about it.
                \_ what's wrong with government jobs? It's laid back and
                   there isn't a lot of overtime. I get to bike as much as
                   I want.
                   \_ See! That's just evil! You should be overworked and
                      suffering emotionally and physically to achieve the
                      American Dream(tm). That's what is right!
                      \_ From each according to his means.  To each according
                         to his need.  Overall, the wealth of the society is
                         better shared in communist and most socialist nations
                         than in the capitalist west.  People are happier
                         there.
                         \_ how much time did you spend in russia before
                            the fall of the soviet union? how much time
                            did you spend in China before the reforms of the
                            '80s?  if life was so much better in the
                            Communist Bloc, why did they have guard towers
                            and razor wire all along the beach in Tallin to
                            keep people from fleeing to Finland?
                            ok, i just re-read your reply.  you're a troll.
                            sorry, i'm the moron..
                            \_ Because those people were unwilling to share
                               with others.  They were selfishly trying to
                               destroy the system.  It only works if everyone
                               wants it to, the same as any other system.
        \_ whatever you do, take care of your health. if you get hurt,
           claim workman's comp, etc. you make your value in the workforce
           worthless for all practical purposes. if someone tries to hire
           you, their insurance rates will skyrocket. they will prob hire
           someone else, instead.
        \_ wrist pads are cheap at CompUSA or Fry's or Internet
           Likewise for the other stuff. Now if you asking for an adjustable
           desk like the professors have or being able to drill holes
           in the furniture or a reasonable chair, you may wish to
           contact your friendly local Ergonomics department. What?
           Your company is so small and so tech-unsavvy that they
           don't have either an onsite dept or bring in periodic
           consultants? Well,  I don't know then.
           [You're vs. Your correction motd god was here]
           \_ "the professors" at Berkeley, except in departments with more
              money than they know what to do with (EECS), have terrible
              ergonomic setups.  Most are using WWII Navy-surplus Steelcase
              desks as computer desks.  -tom
              \_ Too bad the T-buildings are gone.  Nothing was better than
                 using WWII military surplus in a WWII military "T"emporary
                 building.
                 \_ we have new T-buildings at Hearst Gym now.  -tom
                    \_ Yeah but they're not from 3 or 4 wars ago.  It's just
                       not the same....  -T building lover
              \_ don't speak too soon, tom.
                \_ what?  -tom
        \_ If you really feel you are injuring yourself, buy whatever supplies
           you need with your own money.  The amount of money will be trivial
           in terms of the amount of suffering you are sparing yourself.  Then
           you can take your special keyboard and mouse with you to your next
           job when you leave.  -ax [motd formatd god was here]
        \_ When I needed to raise the monitor, I just used two packs of 8.5x11
           paper thinking that it costs much less than a monitor stand and just
           works as well.  One day my manager saw that, and he felt sorry and
           automatically got me a monitor stand.  I didn't intend to make him
           feel guilty, but he just did it himself.  So it depends on your
           luck with what kind of manager or finance department you have.
           \_ protecting people from injury is just good business.  Any
              manager that doesn't see that needs to be awakened in an
              abrupt and painful manner.  -tom
           \_ As Tom said.  Figure the cost of a $15 stand vs. the potential
              liability.  You think you were doing the company a favor.  You
              weren't.  A lame-o monitor stand means *nothing* in the overall
              budget.  It's petty pocket change.  Don't be a martyr.  No one
              likes a martyr.
              \_ Well, on the other hand I requested the most expensive anti-
                 radiation anti-glare Polaroid brand screen filter that I could
                 find in the supply catalog, because a cheaper one doesn't work
                 as well.  So I wasn't really a martyr.  It all depends on
                 whether or not a cheap alternative works as well as the
                 conventional option.
                 \_ Even your $100 or whatever filter is still chump change.
                    Always order the best.  It won't make a difference to the
                    budget and they'll feel better knowing they got you the
                    best out there so liability is no longer an issue.  The
                    cost for even _looking_ at a lawyer is higher for them
                    than just buying you all that stuff at any market price.
2001/4/8 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:20899 Activity:nil
4/7     Sign the petition to end DST!  http://www.standardtime.com
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic, Reference/History/WW2] UID:19684 Activity:nil
11/9    It's amazing how many political figures use the word "liberal"
        interchangably with "communist freak". All you have to do is
        look it up.
        5 : BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism,
        orthodoxy, or traditional forms
        \_ Liberals in America are communist freaks.
2000/10/21-11/16 [Recreation/Dating, Science/GlobalWarming, Reference/History/WW2] UID:19544 Activity:low
10/20   What does "fu" mean?  I see them sometimes on the motd.
        \_ It's a chinese word.
        \_ Fucked Up, as in FUBAR
          \_ More commonly spelt as "foobar", so "fu" is analogous to "foo"
          which I'm sure you'd be familiar with once you've taken enough
          CS or psuedo-CS classes. FUBAR, fucked up beyond all recognition,
          army term, like SNAFU, Situation Normal, All Fucked Up.
          \_ See the Jargon File for complete info:
             http://www.tf.hut.fi/cgi-bin/jargon?search=FUBAR
             The short story, FUBAR comes from WWII (F'ed up beyond all
            repair).
            The long story, it was added to computing lexicon by dec guys,
            and FOOBAR was made famous by RFC 1639.
          \_ fu == foo!!??  No way!
             \_ 'fu' has nothing at all to do with 'foo'.  See below.  -blojo
        \_ Hungry, wasting sodans are talking about "food", but in order to
           conserve energy only speak the first phoneme.  IT wages are
           tough to make a living on.
        \_ knowledge of a subject.
           \_ advanced ability in a particular technical field. Commonly
              referred to as Expertise.
        \_ as in kung fu
            \_ "I know Kung FU!"
               \_ "Show Me"
        \_ Even Winnie the Pooh knows what "fu" means:
           /csua/tmp/winniethepooh.mpg
        \_ It's like Lucy in the sky with diamonds. -gwb
        \_ That is just because you are Bush/Gore apologist who is
           secretly in favor of communism/fascism. Admit it!
           \_ No, this sodan just prefers motd sex/no-sex talk.  Am I right?
              \_ yup. poll for working post-school males with SO's: you:
                 a) knew your SO while in school or before:
                 b) met your SO after you started working :
                 c) found my SO in a lap dance bar in SF  :
2000/5/2 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:18153 Activity:nil
5/1     Long Live the revolution!!
        \_ You mean the revolution that left the winning side in poverty for
           the past half century, and the losing side in relatively quite
           better terms in economy and politics?
                \_ That is becuase of the influence of pro-bourgeois forces
                   \_ Hi paolo!
                \_ This is a good thing.  All the wealth has been shared, what
                   little there is in communist/socialist nations....
1999/6/14-16 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity, Reference/History/WW2] UID:15954 Activity:high
6/13    Garbage's Version2.0 kicks ass! Are there any other albums out
        there that I should check out? (i.e. not neccesarily by Garbage)
        \_"happy hours, golden showers"
        \_ 101 Incoherent Communist Drinking Songs, by Bryan Harvey
           \_ Most people who think they're commies really don't know what
              communism really is.  Most people are really just egalitarianists
              like John Locke.  Communism is actually about achieving
              industrialization through totalitarianism, mind control, and
              ruthless beatings like what Stalin (and to some extent, those
              McCarthy dipshits) did.  At any rate, BH isn't a commie, no
              matter how much he thinks he is (and neither is GNU or FSF).
           \_ BH isn't a true Ruskie commie.  They were smarter than that and
              understood communism is a failure and *can't* work.
                \_ Communism works. Disneyland is a communistic entity.
                   You pay for the rides you want to be on with time.
              \_ idiot. communism works. ENFORCED communism doesn't.
                \_ Silly.  Communism is contrary to human nature.  It only
                   works in text books and eco-political theory classes.
                   Where has your unenforced communism ever worked for a
                   substantial period of time?  In fact, other than the drug
                   culture created sex oriented pseudo communes in the 60/70s
                   in this country I can't think of an unforced communist
                   community anywhere.  It's non-functional.  Put up or shut
                   up.  And no, don't try to pin the counter point on me. I
                   never said I was in favor of free for all zero-control
                   capitalism.  Where's your successful unenforced communist
                   state?
                   \_ works better on a smaller scale.  like collective
                      businesses, co-op organizations.  i have direct
                      experiene with this stuff.  and yes, enforced
                      communism sucks ass and won't work.  in recent human
                      experience, what's called communism has really been
                      a totalarian state - not a recipie for success in a
                      world with such global communications as today.
                   \_ saying "theres no country that does this, so
                      it doesn't work" is NOT a proof against it.
                      And your "against human nature" stuff is just as valid
                      for nixing welfare, charity tax credits,
                        \_ It was stated "communism works".  Prove it.  I'm
                           in favor of "nixing" welfare.  What of it?  Humans
                           in general are greedy and selfish and jealous
                           (like me and proud of it).
                           \_ welfare is so easy to hate when you're a
                              privlidged berkeley student.  ++clue please.
                              \_ the opposing viewpoints are: 1) getting
                                 shat on is a great motivator because there's
                                 no welfare, vs. 2) you couldn't help it,
                                 welfare is a safety net
                           \_ be sure to recognize the warning signs, kids!
                                \_ Yeah, like viewing the world as it is might
                                   be a bad thing.  Better to stay in the
                                   \_ it's not (a bad thing)
                                   Ivory Pot Sticker Tower Of Self Deluded
                                   Stupidity.  Get out those rosy glasses.
                           \_ prove communism doesn't work.
                              saying "china,USSR, etc failed at communism" is
                              like saying "The USA is a prime example of
                              why democrasy can never work".
                              None of the above countries are truely an
                              example of the policical scheme they claim
                              to be.
                           This is contrary to the needs of communism.  Find
                           a few hundred thousand Saints and communism might
                           work.  Personally, I've been trying to get Angels
                           to dance on the head of a pin which seems more
                           useful than trying to make a functional communist
                           state.  So far, I've gotten as many as 8 Angels to
                           dance at the same time which is a better track
                           record than communism has.  Still waiting to see
                           an example of working unenforced communism.
                      \_ INFIDEL!!!  HERETIC!!1!  I fondly remember taking
                         162 from bh.  Especially those nights when we'd all
                         gather around the big, silent bulk of the PDP-10 in
                         the machine room, heads bowed to its greatness . . .
                         then bh would pour the vodka, and we'd munch on
                         potstickers and talk for _hours_ about the imminent
                         coming of the Glorious People's GNU-LISP Revolution
                         that would sweep like a cleansing wave!  Some nights
                         we'd watch Animanics and listen to the Beatles until
                         dawn.  Then we'd shatter our vodka glasses against
                         the wall and weave our way home, staggering up the
                         middle of Hearst singing Russian peasant drinking
                         songs . . . I didn't learn much about operating
                         systems, but damn, I learned about _life_.
                         \_ This always summed it up perfectly.  Thanks.
                         \_ yes, whether communism works or not is less
                            important than the humor value it provides now
                \_ on a kibutz where everyone agrees to be there communism
                   has worked!!  The key is that the people involved must
                   agree to it.  Your family could be considered a small
                   version of communism, one goal for all of you with a
                   common pot of money . . .
                   \_ family is a dictatorship, not communism. It IS
                      sort of socialism, though.
        \_"Complete", Minor Threat
                \_ URL please.
                   \_ let's get your login and froge a mail to BH!!
                        \_ That won't make communism work.  Does he now
                           require his students to adopt his failed
                           philosophies to get an "A"?  When I was in school
                           we only needed to eat pot stickers with him.
                   \_ Kinda makes you wish we live in a theoretical world.
                      There would be no physics problems left in that case.
         \_ Oneida Community.  Look it up.
            \_ When did they release this album?  I went looking for it on
               amazon and cdnow, and couldn't find it . . .
        \_ Wasn't this thread about a rock band?  Anyways, someone should
           buy "Looking Out for No. 1" by Robert J. Ringer and put it in the
           CSUA library
        \_ Their first album
        \_ Cardigans' new album. It's not really anything like their one-hit,
           Lovefool.
        \_ I don't know what this "Garbage" is, but you should check out
           "Don Ho Gold", by Don Ho.  It's got *all* the hits!
1998/11/1-3 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:14870 Activity:moderate
11/1    What is the technical term for "wobbling axis of the earth's pole,
        causing retreating and advancing of the ice repeatedly in the last
        40,000 years?" I need to know for the geography class. THANKS!
        \_ precession
           Merriam-Webster's Collegiate® Dictionary contains 2 items
           relevant for "precession".

           *

           pre.ces.sion n [NL praecession-, praecessio, fr. ML, act of
           preceding, fr. L praecedere to precede] (1879): a
           comparatively slow gyration of the rotation axis of a
           spinning body about another line intersecting it so as to
           describe a cone -- pre.ces.sion.al adj

           *

           precession of the equinoxes (1621): a slow westward motion
           of the equinoxes along the ecliptic caused by the
           gravitational action of sun and moon upon the
           protuberant matter about the earth's equator
             \_ when the axis of a spinning body does not rotate about a
                second axis, but rather wobbles, it is nutation, and the
                body is said to nutate. I don't know if that's what the
                earth does, i just know this term from physics.
                body is said to nutate.
        \_  Major glacial events in the Quaternary have coincided when
            -the phases of axial tilt
            -precession of equinoxes
            -eccentricity of orbit
            are all lined up to give the northern hemisphere the least amount
            of summer insolation. We are currently at the stage where the
            axial is tilting outward (earth can tilt as much as 26 degrees),
            and it is a factor that is more likely to cause of global warming
            than anything else.
1998/5/12 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:14083 Activity:nil
5/11    World War II Partners joined forces.  Mercedes-Benz to buy
        Nissan.  New car will be named Axis.
1998/5/1 [Science/GlobalWarming, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Reference/History/WW2] UID:14028 Activity:very high
5/1     /- Join the CSUA Communist Party. Coders of the World Unite! -politburo
                \_ bh is the ultimate commie.
                \_ Long Live the CSUA Revolutionary International!
1998/4/23 [Reference/History/WW2] UID:14001 Activity:nil 72%like:13994
4/21    _The Rape of Nanking_ is an excellent book.
        \_ Where can I get it?  Library?...
                \_ http://www.amazon.com
                \_ any decent bookstore should have it.
        \_ Which one?
           "The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II" or
                \_ this one, by Iris Chang, they were showcasing on Sproul.
                   I know for sure that it is good.
           "The Rape of Nanking: An Undeniable History in Photographs" ?
2017/09/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/22    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Reference:History:WW2: [Germany(196) | Japan(120) ]
.