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2018/11/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/15   

2013/3/5-26 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:54619 Activity:nil
3/5     http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-charm-school-20130305,0,1910998.story
        Berkeley needed this long time ago. You engineers smell!
2012/10/19-12/4 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:54507 Activity:nil
10/19   Techie Booze Guidelines: Developers drink beer. QA drinks wine.
        Ops drinks hard liquor. DBAs drink the blood of the innocent.
2012/10/2-11/7 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:54489 Activity:nil
10/1    Is Steve's BBQ still around?
        \_ yes. can't you google for it? http://www.yelp.com/biz/steves-bar-b-que-berkeley
        \_ http://csua.com/?entry=28112 and http://csua.com/?entry=21798
2012/5/9-6/4 [Science/GlobalWarming, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:54385 Activity:nil
5/9     "Science Reveals How Not to Spill Your Coffee When Walking"
        http://www.csua.org/u/wcr
        No wonder the UC is short in funding.  Just put a damn lid on!
        \_ Before you complain "Now that there are studies for everything,
           some day we'll hear about studiets on studies", please note that the
           Pentagon is always one step ahead of you:
           "This Is Not a Joke: Government Issues Study of a Study About
           Studies"  http://www.csua.org/u/we6 (news.yahoo.com)
2010/3/23-4/14 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Reference/Religion] UID:53758 Activity:nil
3/23    Oh my God!  Even He is a parent who needs to worry about child obesity.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_med_last_supper_obesity
2018/11/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/15   

2009/11/4-17 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:53497 Activity:nil
11/4    http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-one/?src=tp
        \_ sorry, why should we care? Who runs restaurants here?
2009/10/12-11/3 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:53446 Activity:low
10/12   In the same spirit as below, I'm going to be in the Florida Keys
        for a few days Thanksgiving Week.  Any recs on what to do, where
        to stay, what to eat.  All I know about is going snorkeling.
        Also in Miami for a day and half, if you have any recs there.
        \_ http://csua.com/?entry=51778
        \_ You know how when you depart from an airport you need to pay
           extra $2-3, depending on the airport? Well one time I took
           a taxi from Miami back to the airport, and when I got
           off the taxi I gave the driver $14 (fee) plus $2 tip. He asked
           for tip. I explained that I already gave him $2 tip and he got
           all worked up and said I need to pay the extra $2 airport fee.
           "I work for tip, mon!" I explained on the taxi sign that the
           extra fee would be incurred when going out of the airport,
           not going in. He obviously didn't read English well and started
           to curse at me. I gave him the extra $2 so that he would go
           away but went to an authority and confirmed that they're not suppose
           to do that. I then called the mass transit/taxi registration
           to report the case since I got his taxi stall number, and
           they promised to call me back on their investigation. They never
           called back. You really have to watch out in Miami. It is
           not as peachy as Seattle or Houston. Shit hole.
           \_ Leaving the SF airport, I had a cabbie not turn on the meter
              until we were already into the ride, and tell me "to here
              it's usually $2, so you can pay me $2 more than the meter."
              The scam is that they have to pay the taxi company based
              on the meter (which should include any airport fees), and
              they're pocketing the extra.  -tom
        \_ Miami is like a 3rd world country. If you like Los Angeles
           then you may like Miami. Lots and lots of ethnic food, TRAFFIC,
           women in skimpy clothes and shady looking guys in gold that
           scream ROB ME PLEASE, TRAFFIC TRAFFIC and lots of rude
           \_ and really really nice cars
           drivers, partying, ethnic food, lousy parking situation.
           Driving there REALLY sucks. So in a sense it's like a
           hybrid of Venice, Rodeo Drive, Hollywood Sunset, and I-10 freeway
           all merged into one. If that's your kind of thing, yeah go to
           Miami.                       -person who will NEVER go back
           \_ Good food and partying with scantily clad women. I can see why
              you'd avoid it. Driving sucks in every big city and it's 10x
              worse to drive in Boston or DC than it is in LA. How does
              Miami's traffic compare to those?
              \_ I don't like Los Angeles, and that's probably why
                 I don't like Miami. If that's your type of thing, fine.
                 \_ Maybe you should say what you *do* like. So far we know
                    you don't like food, don't like parties, don't like
                    scantily clad women, and don't like traffic. We need
                    to calibrate your comments. Let us know that you like
                    quiet time at home reading, bookstores, skiing, fat women
                    who wear glasses and your favorite food is a sandwich (or
                    whatever).
                    \_ I love food and whatever you said, I just don't
                       enjoy driving between the points in Los Angeles.
                       I don't enjoy I-10, I-110, I-405, I-5, and whatever
                       it is you need to take to get between the amazing
                       points of interest on Sunset, Santa Monica, Westwood,
                       Orange County, and what not. I'll gladly take
                       inferior ethnic food in the Bay Area without your
                       rude drivers and the time you need to spend on the
                       road, thank you very much.
                       \_ Bay Area has great food.
                          \_ Compared to many places, yes. Try to find
                             a decent burrito, though, for example.
                             \_ I actually don't like most mexican food.
                                I never liked beans and salsa.
                                \_ Probably because you never had good
                                   Mexican food. What kind of food *do*
                                   you like?
                                   \_ Cheap likes: Italian, Japanese
                                      Expensive likes: French, Russian
                                      I suppose any big city will do,
                                      but I think elite foodies will
                                      beg to differ and offer a plethora
                                      of suggestions below.
                                      \_ I don't find Italian or Japanese
                                         to be cheap. Maybe you should try
                                         Mexican fish dishes. The best
                                         catfish I had in my life was at
                                         a gourmet Mexican restaurant and
                                         the sauce was made with guava. The
                                         Mexican preparation of skate
                                         wings is also really good. In LA, I
                                         really like La Serenata de
                                         Garibaldi and miss (now gone) El
                                         Emperador Maya. I also like Monte
                                         Alban, Guelaguetza, and Babita. I
                                         have heard Rosa Mexicano is good,
                                         but I don't know. It's a small
                                         chain like Border Grill. Menu looks
                                         good. Do any of the dishes in
                                         good. Also heard good things
                                         about LA institution El Rinconcito Del
                                         Mar. Do any of the dishes in
                                         the "Favorites" section of the below
                                         page appeal to you?
                                         http://tinyurl.com/yfo3twx
                                         \_ I've been to nice Mexican
                                            and Texmex restaurants and I
                                            just don't enjoy them as much
                                            the same way certain people
                                            don't enjoy pizza or burgers.
                                            Having that said, yes a lot of
                                            the food desc are good, I would
                                            probably like them, esp. the
                                            ones without beans and salsa.
                                            Thanks for your suggestions.
                                            Are there any other non Mex food
                                            in LA you can recommend?
                             \_ Papalote is decent, but LA Burrito > SF Burrito
      http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=73331041
                                Burrito discussion starts at 44:29.
                             \_ SF Burrito > Miami Burrito
                                \_ Mexico burrito > SF burrito
                                   \_ No such thing as a Mexico Burrito.
                                \_ SF Cuban <<<<< Miami Cuban
                                   \_ You would think that, but when I was in
                                      Miami I never had any great Cuban food.
                                      The Jamaican food was great. I was only
                                      there for a week and busy campaigning
                                      for Obama, so I didn't really have time
                                      to check out Little Havana. Do you have
                                      any particular places you would recommend?
                                      \_ If you couldn't find good Cuban in
                                         Miami then you are hopeless.
                                         \_ If you can't help by offering
                                            alternatives then you're a total
                                            ass                 !op
                                            \_ Maybe so, but a 60 second
                                               Internet search followed by
                                               a talk with a concierge and
                                               perhaps a few locals is not
                                               hard to do. It's not like
                                               searching for good Latvian food
                                               in Arizona. Maybe the OP just
                                               doesn't like Cuban food. I'm
                                               curious where he had better.
                                               Only better I had was in my
                                               friend's kitchen.
                                               \_ If the op wanted opinion from
                                                  a random guy on the internet,
                                                  he would have searched
                                                  already. There is
                                                  value/anti-value in
                                                  getting opinions from CSUAers.
                                                  If you missed that point,
                                                  why bother contributing shit
                                                  on motd you fucking dip shit?
                                                  \_ Teaching a man to fish
                                                     is more valuable than
                                                     giving him a fish.
                                               \_ I was in Opa-locka and Miami
                                                  Garden busting my ass 16 hours
                                                  a day campaigning, I didn't
                                                  have time to go to the
                                                  Republican parts of Cuban
                                                  Miami. The only real Cuban
                                                  food I had was from my bosses
                                                  wife in The Army, who was
                                                  Cuban. Cha Cha Cha has a few
                                                  vaguely Cuban dishes, which
                                                  I like. In Miami, I asked
                                                  quite a few locals where to
                                                  food I have ever had was from
                                                  my bosses wife in The Army,
                                                  who was Cuban. Cha Cha Cha has
                                                  a few vaguely Cuban dishes,
                                                  which I like. In Miami, I
                                                  asked quite a few (black
                                                  Hatian) locals where to
                                                  get Cuban food and finally
                                                  ate at a place in Opa-locka
                                                  that was mediocre, but that is
                                                  probably like eating Chinese
                                                  food in The Mission.
                \_ Er, thanks for your concern, but I'm passing throught Miami,
                   not moving there. Anything about the Keys?
2009/10/11-11/3 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:53444 Activity:low
10/11   Are there any CSUA'ers in NYC, or who know things to do in NYC? steven
        and I are doing the tourist thing.
        \_ I thought the Empire State Building was much better than I
           expected it to be. The museums are all stellar, especially the
           Met, MoMA, and Natural History Museum.  Lots of good
           plays/shows/concerts. Top notch restaurants. Worth seeing the Statue
           of Liberty from Battery Park. Ellis Island. Trinity Church Cemetery
           near Wall Street, which is where Alexander Hamilton is buried, if
           you like that sort of thing. Saint Patrick's Cathedral and
           Rockefeller Center.  NYC Ballet and the Lincoln Center including
           Chagall's paintings in the Metropolitan Opera. Lots of good
           shopping with stores that have their only US location in NYC
           (or maybe NYC and LA both) like the NBA Store. I liked Central
           Park. Times Square was a waste of time. Didn't get too much out
           of Chinatown, Greenwich Village, SoHo, TriBeCa coming from SF.
           Depends on what you are into.
           \_ Already been to the Empire State Building, Central Park, Times
              Square, Battery Park, and Wall Street. Except for Central Park,
              all at night, though. Care to be more specific about the plays/
              shows and restaurants? --toulouse
              \_ I don't know what's playing. Look online. As for restaurants,
                 look at something like Yelp or Zagat to find something
                 to suit your tastes. Try Gramercy Tavern, Gilt, Aureole,
                 Daniel, Jean Georges, Le Bernardin, Per Se, Alto, Corton,
                 Picholine, or anything else which won a Michelin star and
                 you'll be in good hands. Ethnic food is good in NYC, but
                 we get that in California. What we don't get so much of is
                 fine dining. Waitstaff in particular are much better in NY.
                 The bar at the Ritz Carlton near Wall Street is cool,
                 because you can sit outside and overlook the harbor and
                 the Statue of Liberty while having your drink with a
                 bunch of traders who just got off work. I recommend that.
        \_ There is great food in NYC, but it is not like the Bay Area where
           you can find amazing food for $20. Be prepared to spend at least
           $50/person (usually more like $100) for good food. -ausman
           \_ Except for pizza, which fills the culinary niche taken by the
              Mission Burrito in the Bay Area.  John's, on Bleeker Street,
              is one of the reference pizza places.  While you're in the
              Village, go check out one of the underground jazz clubs.  -tom
        \_ I'd do some "A-list" stuff in NYC, but then I'd switch to stuff
           NYC has that where you are coming from doesnt have. Like instead
           of going to all the big museums, go to say the http://www.icp.org if
           interested in photography, or some ethic food not avail in your
           home space etc. You can look in the "About Town" [in the NYker]
           or Time Out etc for what's going on. Oh, I also check on "expiring"
           stuff, like special exhibits at museums ... NYC gets some better
           travelling shows than SF. I assume you know about the "half-price
           tix" type operations. Cloisters is another interesting museum not
           mentioned above. BTW, a bunch of the named restos above are going
           to be +$200, and easily can go +$400/pp with "modest wines". A new
           thing in NYC is http://www.thehighline.org
           \_ I was going to mention the Cloisters, but it's part of the
              Met. It is worth noting, to me anyway, that NYC has the best
              museums I have ever been to. I have not been to those in
              London, but I have been to most of the big ones in the US
              (Smithsonian, Field in Chicago, Cleveland, Getty, Dallas, Boston)
              and some in Europe (Rijksmuseum and all the big French ones) and
              the museums in NYC blow them away, IMO. So don't think
              "Well, I'm from DC and we have good museums here." NYC makes
              the National Gallery of Art and Smithsonian Natural History
              Museum look like crap. Odds are, where you are from does not
              have anything like what you will find in NYC. Certainly not if
              you are from SF.
              \_ Better than The Louvre? Come on. But yes, far better than
                 anything in SF or LA even.
                 \_ To me it was better than the Louvre and the Orsay, but
                    it depends on what kind of art you like. The Met had
                    more of what I like. Yes, the Louvre has the Mona Lisa
                    and Venus de Milo while the Met doesn't have any
                    Michaelangelo at all (well, they do, but rarely on
                    display - yes, I realize Michaelangelo did not do
                    those works, pardon my poor sentence). Louvre has a great
                    antiquities collection. On the other hand, the Met has more
                    Asian art, more 1800s+ art (which the Louvre has none of
                    b/c it is in the Orsay), arms and armor, musical
                    instruments, and textiles. Orsay had a nice collection of
                    Tissots and Whistler's Mother, but overall the Met had a
                    more impressive modern art collection (e.g.,
                    Impressionists and people like O'Keefe). Collectively, I
                    would say the art museums in Paris are larger and better,
                    but under one roof I was more impressed with the Met.
                    P.S. The Orsay is sending a lot of its collection to
                         SF next year while it undergoes renovation. This
                         is your only chance to see most of this art in SF.
        \_ Check out PS1 in Queens.  When you get here, read the 'stuff that
           is happening' section in the various free weeklies.   Those tourist
           buses that sell you three days passes are actually pretty
           convenient.  If I ever get some time off I want to hit all of this:
           http://travel.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/nyregion/13stop.html - danh
2009/4/21-23 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:52887 Activity:nil
4/21    Which restaurant allows bringing your own wine bottle?
        \_ McD's usually seems cool with it. Homeless winos do it all the time.
        \_ Most restaurants that serve wine will let you with a corkage fee.
         \_ But unless you are bringing a high end wine it is considered
            a bit tacky to bring your own.
            \_ Would a bottle of Yellow Tail be considered high end enough not
               to be tacky or should I buy Rosemount Estate?
            \_ Haven't you heard? Frugal is the new black?
             \_ Still tacky.  Go without or don't eat out.
            \_ Or it's your own wine or a wine made by a friend.
2009/4/7-13 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:52821 Activity:kinda low
4/7     Where can you get good food for $10? I went to an Italian restaurant
        last night. Pizza/pasta was only $13 or so, but with an appetizer and
        dessert the meal was over $50 (no drinks, 17% tip). And it was ok food,
        with homemade gnocchi but didn't taste like anything that you couldn't
        make at home with a little effort. No comparison to actual good Italian
        restaurants (e.g. Bar Bambino, Delfina, SPQR) that are in the $30-50/pp
        range... I'd rather have gone to Fuzio or Pasta Pomodoro and get
        something quick. But I find it really hard to eat (except for Mexican
        or Asian) for <$20. Even a decent pizza with a side salad runs around
        $20 these days (e.g. Zachary's, Pizzaiolo, Pauline's, Little Star)...
        \_ Good Fricken Chicken. Does Middle Eastern food count?
        \_ Most Mexican places will cost less than that. Cuban, too. In
           fact, I think you should look to ethnic cuisine of all types in
           that price range. You will not do well to find European food in
           that price range.
           \_ What part of except Mexican wasn't clear?
           \_ Even then dinner < 10 bucks a person is going to be hard.
              After tax and tip that's about 7 dollars each.  Even a
              burrito and a drink is over that and let's face it, burritos
              are good but if that's all you are eating out then you need
              to expand your palate a bit.
              \_ My girlfriend and I usually split something like an
                 enchilada or burrito plate and an appetizer and it comes
                 to less than $20 if you don't have any margaritas. We
                 are not big eaters and sometimes it's too much food even
                 when we split it. In college, we used to split the
                 burritos at La Fiesta and the hoagies at IB's. You can
                 get a pizza (easily) for less than $20, too.
                 \_ Dude, it's also not quality food by any streach of
                    the imagination.
                    \_ I didn't see the word 'quality' in the original RFP
                       but it's certainly 'good'.
        \_ How much is the "spicy chicken over rice" at TC Garden these days?
           Is that place still around? It used to be $3.25... or about $4
           with tax and a 15% tip.
           \_ TC Garden is one of the worst chinese restaurants I know of.
              They use some sort of special sauce that's like nothing I've
              ever had, and not in a good way. I say this as an asian who's
              eaten in tons of different chinese restaurants growing up.
        \_ I just got "The Fortune Cookie Chronicles", will report later
        \_ Old Spaghetti Factory has a 40% off special on Tuesdays through
           May. Which makes it about $6 before tax/tip for a complete meal.
           There are various other chains with recession specials, probably
           some at the $9.99 mark. I don't think you'll get any decent
           non-chain Western food for <$10 unless it's a burger or something.
        \_ Read Cheap Eats in the Bay Guardian.
        \- to eat under $10 you need to do the following: 1. avoid paying
           for service 2. you need to do time and/or space averaging. time
           averaging = eat a can of soup or 99cent burgers, slice of pizza
           etc for one meal and that will increase your budget for other meals.
           space averaging means split with somebody else ... ideal for cheap
           chinese to go food: since you can get 2 entrees and a soup or fried
           rice/chow mein for a littl emore than $20. next you have to figure
           out what are the best local options in a couple of categories:
           prepared food bars, sanwiches, burritos, quesillas, tacos [if you
           can find them for $1.50 or less], cheap hamburgers [nations, if you
           like mayo, as an alternative to fast food. you can go up to
           barney's level, but you cant do cafe rouge/900 grayson ... the
           right thing depends on where you live but there will be some place
           with a decent $5 burger], shawerma, indian/pakistani dives for
           kebabs and chicken dishes + cheap rice = lots of calories. you also
           can eat stuff like good bread and good buter/oil for very cheap in
           berkeley. you can buy decent cheej, decent salted meats ...
           obviously not roquefort and proscuitto [+$25/lb], but domestic
           goat or blue or cheaper hard cheeses and say coppa, salami
           [>$15/lbs]. oh and you have to avoid paying retain for alcohol.
           \_ I think the op was saying $10/meal, not $10/day.
              \- and ... ??
2009/4/3-12 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:52794 Activity:high
4/3     A few days back someone was advocating going to good restaurants over
        saving money.  I'm curious, I've never been to a really expensive
        restaurant. (Over $30 per person.)  In general I've found that once I
        get beyond about $10 the food doesn't get any better, instead I start
        paying for stuff I don't care about, like "atmosphere."  Which
        basically means I've rarely been to a restaurant where the food
        wasn't both tastier and more healthy at home.  At what price point does
        the food quality start to increase again?  Oh, and I don't like steak,
        which may affect the pricing.
        \_ Anything over $15/person is Gluttony. Seriously. Spending so much
           time and effort on food is frivolous. You could spend the same
           amount of effort on making society better. People who are self-
           centered and are into self-indulgence are waaay too concerned about
           food. Just look at the post below. It disgusts me.
                                        -Zen guy, not really religious
        \_ Food is like porn. You start with cheap bland stuff, then as you
           gain experience you get into more hardcore stuff. Bland baby food,
           then McD, then fine hotdog/pizza, then real hamburgers, then
           New York Steak, then Filet Minon, then wine (light Shiraz->
           medium Merlot->complex Cabernet), etc. Likewise, you look at
           naked pictures of women, then noticed leg quality differences,
           then noticed boob size differences, nipple size, their curvatures,
           their vaginas, size of their vagina lips, then you want to get
           into XXX, XXXX, etc. It just goes on and on. My point is like
           any hobby the more exposure and knowledge you accumulate the
           more hardcore and the more $$$ you get sucked into.
           \_ You don't know much about Shiraz, but you sure know your porn.
        \_ If you go to New York City, $30/person isn't extraordinary. Having
           that said, I find that many city slickers and snooty urbanites love
           food and are willing to spend a lot of money on food, whereas
           people from the mid-west and south don't spend as lavishly on food.
        \_ If you think 30 bucks/person is "really expensive" I'm not sure
           I trust your experiance with high end restaurants.  Now I love food
           and I love to cook, and I know full well a lot of places are
           way over priced.  But still, there are damn good restaurants where
           you can eat some damn good food.  Often it's stuff you just can't
           make at home, or an attention to detail you need years of training
           and a level of talent most people just don't have.  If it's not
           your thing, that's great, but don't think that there's not a reason
           good restaurants cost a significant amount.  (And as I said before,
           yes there are plenty of places that charge way too much for crap,
           and some of them seem to be able to stay around for a long ass time,
           but then again, there's always suckers.  Look at Monster Cable.)
           \_ Oh, I see, you can't read can you?  Your posts make sense now.
        \_ 1. This depends on how good of a chef you are for one thing.
              Alice Waters cooks just fine at home. Many people are not
              good cooks.
           2. Do you mean over $30 for an entree or over $30 total?
           3. A big difference between expensive and cheap is the quality
              of the ingredients. Did the beans come out of a can or from
              the field? Is the shrimp fresh or frozen? Is the beef USDA
              Prime or USDA Select? Usually fresh ingredients taste better.
           4. Maybe you just don't have a good palate. I know my dad doesn't.
              It's all pretty much the same to him. Most people can
              recognize the difference between Olive Garden for $10 and
              a nice Italian restaurant like Acquerello. The dishes are more
              complex, the ingredients not only fresher but more unusual
              (e.g., you won't find truffles at Olive Garden), and the food is
              prepared more carefully (e.g, not overcooked or burned).
          \_1. I'm an OK cook, my wife is really good.
            2. I don't usually get anything but an entree because I don't eat
               very much, and don't drink, so it's about the same to me.  I was
               thinking of total though.
            3. I think this is often the problem.  I don't think I've been many
               places that use really fresh ingredients, where as we use really
               good stuff at home.
            4. I certainly don't have the palate my wife has, she can pick
               an amazing amount of detail about each dish (each ingredient,
               etc.)  But I can usually tell what's fresh.  It's probably
               a combonation of 1 and 3.
               \_ If your wife is a good cook and you are buying good quality
                  ingredients, than probably the food you get at home is
                  generally just as good or even better than a $30/person
                  restaurant. That is certainly the case in my home.
                  \_ Ditto in my case except I can't brag to my yuppie DINK
                     friends about how much knowledgeable I am with food
                     and how well we eat.
                     \_ There is one easy solution for that: throw a dinner
                        party. You have to talk your wife into this of course.
                     \_ You guys are kidding yourselves. My wife is an
                        excellent cook who can make a lot of
                        restaurant-quality dishes (we eat a lot of Julia
                        Child recipes) and we are not so silly as to believe
                        that we eat better than at a good restaurant just
                        because a few dishes turn out as good or better - and
                        when they do they are incredibly time-consuming (take a
                        whole day or more) and expensive (sometimes just $40 in
                        ingredients for a single course). You just need to up
                        the quality of the restaurants you eat at, admit you
                        don't have a good palate, or maybe you are one of
                        those people who just like simple foods better. Nothing
                        wrong with that. My parents don't really get into
                        a lot of the haute cuisine and just want mashed
                        potatoes and a chicken breast and that's what they
                        order when we go out most of the time. We could
                        make that at home, like you say.
                        \_ Most $30/person restaurants in SF just aren't
                           really that fancy. My wife is Vietnamese and
                           what she makes takes some time, but is at least
                           as good as what you would get at Slanted Door.
                           I have been to Masa's and La Folie and Aqua and
                           yeah, they were a whole different experience, but
                           I also spent $200/person at Aqua.
                           \_ And yet an entree at Aqua is only about $30.
                              I, too, spend about $150-200 per person when
                              I dine out, but that's just because I order
                              a lot of different dishes along with wine.
                              Just because some restaurants are bad doesn't
                              mean that anything over $10 is diminishing
                              returns and you may as well dine at home,
                              which was the original supposition. If your
                              wife is cooking like Masa's every night you
                              need to set that woman up with a restaurant.
                              http://www.masasrestaurant.com/masas_nine.htm
                              http://www.masasrestaurant.com/masas_menu_three_course.htm
                              \_ No, I just said the opposite of that, that
                                 "they were a whole different experience."
                                 With wine and tip, $30/person restaurants
                                 are places like Chow or Zuni Cafe or Encanto,
                                 all of which are fine, but nothing special.
                                 I drink wine with dinner at home, so I can't
                                 imagine why I shouldn't include that cost
                                 when I dine out. Some things are impractical
                                 to make at home, like Dim Sum and are well
                                 worth the value. Which restaurants are between
                                 $30-$150/person and well worth the value from
                                 a taste standpoint? Farallon, La Ciccia, maybe
                                 some sushi places, I can't think of much else,
                                 but I also don't tend to spend that much money
                                 on dinner. Oh, I am obviously not the original
                                 poster.
                                 \- You pick some hard to lump together restos.
                                    Chow does the kinds of comfort food you can
                                    do at home. But it is quite reasonably
                                    priced, so unless you really enjoy cooking,
                                    it is a reasonable place to go [I really
                                    like the short rib dish there for $12-$15].
                                    Zuni is a place with "buzz" ... that is in
                                    part what you are paying for ... for a
                                    night out, not just a plate of food.
                                    Encanto [sic -> Incanto], is exactly the
                                    kind of place that is going to make stuff
                                    you are not going to make at  home [like
                                    tuna heart, cockscombs etc]. Farallon is
                                    passe and frankly it was not that food
                                    focused ... it was partly "Disney" and
                                    partly Sex and the City.
                                    \_ Any recommendations?
                                       \- what are your parameters?
                                          \_ They were in the previous post.
                                             $30-150/person and worth the cost
                                             from a food taste standpoint.
                                             \-panda country kitchen, china
                                               village [solano av], for DEEM
                                               SUM the place next to ton kiang,
                                               village [solano av], "the place
                                               next to ton kiang [DEEM SUM],
                                               poc chuc -- upper mission, red
                                               jade, osteria del forno
                                               jade, osteria del forno, chinese
                                               laundry aka jai yun ... maybe
                                               little star pizza, han il kwan,
                                               lers ros, bodega bistro, maybe
                                               lahore karahi.
               \_ I think you just need to try a better restaurant than
                  you have in the past. As the guy above said, if you
                  think $30 is expensive then maybe you haven't had that
                  many good meals. Not every restaurant charging $34 for
                  an entree is good, though. Go to some reknowned for
                  high quality fish and creative dishes. Maybe a place
                  like Gary Danko or (if it's still good) Masa's and order
                  the more unusual dishes (especially the tasting menu).
                  People who go to a high end restaurant and order chicken
                  may as well have eaten at home. Get squab or grass eel or
                  caviar blinis or pureed leek soup or something your wife
                  doesn't usually whip up except on special occasions.
        \- I dont think there is especially any reason to cultivate
           "expensive" restaurants ... espcially if you are not big on
           fancy wine/drink, fancy cheej, "premium" ingredients like foie gras,
           truffle etc. Also, I never go to fancy places without friends
           I like ... so the social aspect of dining is a big part of the
           experience for me ... more so than the "atmosphere". However,
           there are definitely dining experiences you cant get at home
           and if you are interested food at all, it's worth doing some
           research. For example you can try the fancy cheej at home.
           For example you can have very interesting chinese,
           or thai food in the $30 range. There are places with better
           pizza than you can make in your home oven ... like say Pizzalio.
           The research part of this is going to the good places instead of
           the so-so places ... in the case of chinese restaurants, these
           places are often basically the same price or maybe 20% more
           expensive [as long as we arent talking high end asian sea food].
           So the question you should be asking yourself is "what *kinds*
           of cuisine do i like that i cant get at home" ... "expensive" isnt
           a kind of food. once you figure out what you want to chase, then
           you can start doing the research to optimize price-performance ...
           for example i am willing to pay for high end french, but generally
           not a fan of paying for high end sushi. and if you dont know what
           you like in terms of asian, latin american, african, french, sushi,
           steak, pizza, italian, middle eastern ... you can start doing
           "research" at modest places. BTW, high end food isnt just about
           ingredient sourcing ... there are lots of complicated dishes or
           desserts which are not reasonable to make at home because of the
           complexity (short of seeing it as a "project"), unless possibly
           complexity (short of seeing it has a "project"), unless possibly
           if you cook a lot and keep stuff like demi-glace on hand, or have
           specialized pastry equipment and ingredients. and of course there
           is cheep stuff you also probably wont make at home ... tandoori,
           (high temp oven) pizza, al pastor, shawerma, DEEM SUM (XLB) etc.
           specialized pastry equipment and ingredients.
           if you live in the bay area and have some discretionary income,
           why dont you just ask for recommendations.
           \_ Thanks for writing this. I think cuisine is a good starting
              point. And Pizzaiolo (or Pauline's or Little Star)
              is a good example of the difference between a $10 meal and a
              $25 meal. Cheese Board is a $10 meal which proves that price may
              be correlated with quality, but not necessarily so. Start with
              a cuisine you like but don't cook at home (e.g. pizza, Mexican,
              Chinese, Indian) and find what you like. Actually, a lot of
              ethnic foods aren't very expensive for pretty good stuff. It's
              a lot of the European foods (and sushi) that can get expensive
              very quickly.
           \_ Re: High end sushi: There's expensive sushi and very good
              sushi, but it's hard to know the difference without having
              experienced very good sushi. Unless you're a connosieur,
              Isobune or Samurai Boat is probably just fine. If you're a
              reincarnated sushi chef, order the omakase at Sushi Sho on
              Solano, but _don't_ add wasabi or soy sauce unless he tells
              you to-- and don't be surprised when the bill tallies $70+
              per person.
              \_ $70/person is not a lot for high-end sushi.
                 \- or for $88k, you can buy Sushi Sho
                    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/reb/1109818860.html
                    \_ GODDAMNIT.
                    \_ ok. So where are you going to find a sushi chef?
        \_ When I eat dinner with my friends in Manhattan and Brooklyn, the
           bill always comes out $25-$40 per person, and I start missing
           La Fiesta. - danh
           \_ When my friend's sister visited from London for a week, her and
           \_ When my friend's sister visited from London for a week, she and
              her husband ate Mexican food 8 times in 7 days. You're not alone.
2009/1/30 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:52490 Activity:nil
1/30    Is there a variety of red wine called Sangria? I don't mean the
        wine punch with fruit, etc. I had a glass of this "Sangria" at a
        restaurant a while back and it's the only wine I've had so far
        that I actually liked, rather than just tolerated. Granted, I don't
        drink wine that often anyway, so there may be plenty of wines I'd like
        that I've never had. It wasn't particularly expensive; $6 for the
        glass I think. P.S. Searching for "sangria" along with "wine"
        obviously didn't give me great results.
2008/11/24-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:52084 Activity:nil
11/23   Sic Transit Gloria Bud
     http://www.thebigmoney.com/blogs/daily-bread/2008/11/20/king-beers-toppled
2008/7/25-30 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:50690 Activity:moderate
7/25    Yay!  CA has banned trans-fat!  Now if only the legislature could make
        all of my decisions.  Oh, and pass a budget that spends less than it
        takes in.  Thanks progressives for the new prohibition, 100 years after
        the last one.
        \_ Schwarzenegger is a progressive?  -tom
           \_ The legislature is--the girly-man Gov. just wants to be liked.
        \_ did they include a budget for enforcement?  How did they think they
           would implement this.
           \_ I wouldn't think it would require much money for enforcement.
              It's just another box for the health inspector to check.
              \_ Is it just restaurants or also packaged food in stores?
                 \_ "a ban on trans fats in restaurants and retail baked goods"
                    Both of which are already check for lots of stuff, so,
                    while I think it's silly, I don't think it's going to
                    cost much to the gvt.
                    \_ Does that include twinkies or not?
           \_ Right now you can't add rat poison to baked goods either.  Not
              even if you put "tasty tasty rat poison" in the list of
              ingredients.  How much do you think that costs to enforce?
              There is not going to be a transfat division added to police
              forces across the state.  Instead it's one more thing that
              it is illegal to add to food.  If a company does and labels it
              as transfat gee, that will be pretty obvious SO THEY WON'T.
              If a company does and doesn't label it they will be breaking
              labeling laws (which are pretty harsh) SO THEY WON'T.  Small
              bakers may get away with using transfats for a while but
              1. that's not a big deal state healthwise and 2. over time
              bakeries will stop, because it's not worth the trouble.
              \_ Why don't they ban something that actually affects other
                 people like SMOKING and let people eat whatever the hell
                 they want to eat?
                 \_ Bill Gates is working on that.  I wonder if humanity
                    suffers more from diseases caused by years of eating
                    trans fats, or from smoking?  hard to say.
                    \_ I don't really care to protect humanity from itself. I
                       just don't want to choke on other people's smoke.
                 \_ You can continue to eat all the transfats you want. You
                    just won't get them in mass-produced food items. Your
                    choice to kill yourself with transfats has not been
                    impinged; the option to soak other people in them
                    without their consent has. Opt-in fat good.
                    \_ My choice to use whatever ingredients I want in my
                       food (as a manufacturer) has been impinged. There is no
                       evidence transfats are intrinsically bad for your
                       health. If you eat too many of them and exercise too
                       little they aren't good for you but neither are sugar,
                       beer, and coffee. You can overdose on water even.
                       This is selectively discriminating against an ingredient
                       for arbitrary reasons.
                       \_ Your "rights" as a manufacturer are already subject
                          to regulation (cf "rat poison" above). If your
                          argument is with the arbitrary nature of the ban,
                          that's different from "let[ting] people eat
                          whatever the hell they want to ear."
                          \_ Rat poison is hardly the same thing as transfats.
                       \_ "There is no evidence that transfats are
                          intrinsically bad for your health"??? You should
                          educate yourself on the topic, the AMA and NAS
                          disagree with you on this.
                          \_ What is the health risk of eating transfats? None
                             at all. Did we ban saturated fats? Should we
                             ban baking with butter, too? Eat too much of
                             them and exercise too little and you will get
                             sick. However, a healthy person can eat a
                             transfat-laden muffin with no ill effects.
                             Maybe we should ban steak. It's laden with
                             saturated fats *and* unlabeled as such! I
                             never knew!
                             \_ "from a nutritional standpoint, the consumption
                                 of trans fatty acids results in considerable
                                 potential harm but no apparent benefit."
                                 -New England Journal of Medicine
                                "...any incremental increase in trans fat
                                 intake increases the risk of heart disease."
                                 -NAS Dietary Reference
                                Should I take the advice of these two peer
                                reviewed experts or anonymous motd hozer?
                                Hmmm...
                                \_ "from a nutritional standpoint, the
                                    consumption of vodka results in
                                    considerable potential harm but no
                                    apparent benefit."
                                   "...any incremental increase in cheesesteaks
                                   intake increases the risk of heart
                                   disease."
                                   Clearly we need to ban cheesesteaks and
                                   vodka.
                                   \_ And yet we don't let people sell
                                      rubbing alcohol as a cheap vodka
                                      substitute.
                                      \_ Weak.
                                   \_ Actually, there are numerous studies
                                      indicating that moderate alchohol
                                      consumption is salubrious. And cheese
                                      steaks in moderation are good for you,
                                      too. I agree with your main point, that
                                      people should be allowed to poison
                                      themselves, but you are not arguing from
                                      the facts here. Transfat is worse for
                                      you than white sugar, even.
                                      \_ Transfat is, arguably, no worse for
                                         you than saturated fat. In fact,
                                         many studies have credited transfats
                                         for lowering risk of heart disease as
                                         substitutes for saturated fats. Sure,
                                         some studies say saturated fats are
                                         worse, which is why I use the term
                                         "arguably". Certainly saturated fats
                                         are very unhealthy and there is no
                                         cry to ban them. Transfats have
                                         become the boogeymen du jour. BTW, I
                                         seriously doubt vodka has any positive
                                         benefits. Wine, sure. Vodka, I doubt.
                                         Maybe as a blood thinner if that's a
                                         positive thing for you.
2008/6/24-27 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:50350 Activity:nil
6/23    If civilization collapses, at least I can make wine out my own urine
        http://www.arthurmag.com/magpie/?p=2833
        \_ Obama will never let that happen.  Candy rainbows will arc over
           chocolate rivers; happy children playing on the banks.
        \_ Um no, you are confused. She is making pruno, not wine.
2008/3/13-17 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:49440 Activity:moderate
3/13    Help. Mother has slowly gone insane in the past few weeks. Claims
        to be really sick, takes her to ER, nothing. Does this several
        times before we realized she's just lonely. She eats crappy food
        like KFC and canned food and is mal-nutrioned yet refuses to eat
        "expensive food." She is a complete hazard on the road, and her
        place has become a total dumpster and a fire hazard. It's apparent
        that her mental capacity and reasoning power has slowly diminished
        to... zero. What are some possible solutions? I don't want to
        kill her.
        \_ this sounds very familiar.  I recommend, for the lonely/depression
           problem:
                1) force her to get social hobbies
                2) force her to have regular interaction with people
                3) enforce a quota - like going out every day
           we went from 1 false alarm ER visit a month to one every 6+ months.
                --brain
           \_ Thanks but already tried and doesn't work. After 2-3 meetings
              people realize she's a total nutcase and avoid her. I mean
              I've already lost gf's thanks to her. Socialization is not
              for someone who's brain is already hardwired.
              \_ What about senior centers?  Here in Livermore we have the
                 "friendship center" or something like that for old people to
                 hang out at. http://www.larpd.dst.ca.us/friendship.html
        \_ Do you equate putting her in a home with 'killing her'?  She
           sounds like she needs and would benefit from being in a
           home.  They'll watch over her and she'll have other crazy
           old people to hang out with.
           Alternately, you could quit your job and nursemaid her
           yourself.
           \_ So how much is a nursing home going to cost?  -op
              \_ Sounds like my dad, so I have the greatest sympathy
                 with your plight. My dad would not consider moving out
                 of his home until he finally crashed his car and depleted
                 of his home until he crashed his car and depleted
                 his bank account, but finally agreed to move into an
                 assisted living situation, where he gets three meals a
                 day and his own apartment. This costs $1800/mo, in Riverside
                 California. It would more in the Bay Area, 1.5X to 2X more
                 depending on the facility. You can actually get it for less,
                 but it starts to be pretty primitive.
                 \_ OH LORD. I don't have that kind of money. I guess I'll
                    just let her rot and crash into other people like
                    George Weller or something.
                    \_ Doesn't she have any savings?  Where is she living now?
                       \_ No. She said she was counting on Social Security.
                          But I've been mostly supporting her. I don't have
                          other family members as they're also crazy and
                          scattered all over the world. It's just my mom
                          and I, 50 miles apart. I have to admit, this has
                          been one of the loneliest months I've ever had in
                          my life. It's times like these that I wished that
                          I was a Christian or something.       -op
                          \_ How much does she cost per month right now?
                             $1800 doesn't seem like that much if you include
                             rent, food, utilities, etc.
                             \_ Her mortgage is $600/month.
                                \_ Wheew... I think you'd have to move closer
                                   to her, (or vice-versa) and get a part time
                                   caretaker to clean up and such.  Actually,
                                   coversation (relieving loniness) is a big
                                   part of the caretaker job.  They are used to
                                   it.  It's usually about $10 an hour.  (Often
                                   under the table.)
                                \_ Social Security is only about $650 or so
                                   a month. With a $600 mortage... when did
                                   you say her reasoning powers went to 0?
                                   \_ On what planet is SS $650/month? My
                                      mom gets twice that and she wasn't
                                      even in the highest earner bracket.
                                      \_ Not all of us come from wealthy
                                         households. I think my Dad's is
                                         about $800/mo, though he gets some
                                         CalPers pension on top of it.
                                         \_ My mom isn't wealthy, but she
                                            worked her entire life. Your
                                            dad probably got less because
                                            he had CalPers instead and
                                            didn't contribute to SS his
                                            entire working career.
                                            \_ You might be right there. His
                                               overall pension + SS is about
                                               $2500/mo, which is just enough.
                    \_ Can you just move her in with you? I thought about this
                       with my Dad, but he is just too hard to get along with.
                       \_ oh, no, HELL NO am I ever going to live with
                          her again. She wakes up in the middle of the
                          night and vacuums and cleans and moves furnitures.
                          She will dig through my books and bank accounts
                          and mess up my private life. HELL NO.         -op
           \_ My Grandmother never got too crazy, she realized when she was
              too old to drive and stopped driving herself.  I lived with her
              for a while when I went to Junior college, but when I went to
              Berkeley she hired a maid and meals-on-wheels.
              After a while she brought on a part time caretaker.  However,
              she was quite happy living a solitary life, reading books and
              watching TV, so even when she dingy she didn't really cause many
              problems.  On the other hand, some realatives lived close by
              watching TV, so even when she got a little dingy she didn't
              really cause many problems.  Some realatives lived close by
              and would visit on at least a weekly basis.  I'm not sure how
              much it cost, but it was probably cheaper than a home, but
              she also owned her own home.
        \_ tell her to ride bike and use linux          -tom's #1 fan
           \_ RIDE TANK!  BAN GUNS! - tom's #5 fan
        \_ Take her to a doctor who knows something about age related mental
           disorders.
2007/7/31-8/3 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:47479 Activity:kinda low
7/31    Go vegetarian to save money - MSN Money:
        http://www.csua.org/u/j8u
        \_ I just spent $204 on a dinner for two at Millenium.  I guess I'm
           eating the wrong vegetarian fair.
           \_ WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!  DUBYA EMM DEEEES!!!!
           \_ Don't eat a fair next time
           \_ And what, half that was wine, plus 15-20% was tip?
        \_ Does that include the huge carbon footprint caused by shipping in
           interesting veggie items from all over the world?
           \_ Be smart, eat what's in season.  It's cheaper, it gives you
              interesting variety, and the food tastes better.
           \_ veggies have much less carbon footprint than beef.  -tom
              \_ Oh great, veggies are less evil.  How about taking the
                 health of our only planet seriously and stop playing the
                 "I'm less evil than you so what I'm doing is ok!" game, huh?
                 \_ I don't think it's about people feeling "okay," but
                    about making a conscious effort to do less damage to the
                    environment. We've gotten to where we are because we didn't
                    pay attention to what industrialism and advancement of
                    human kind has gotten ourselves into. Now people eat more
                    meat because they can be bought "cheap," and we have to
                    subsidize the farmers if we want non-meat stuff. Human
                                \_ say what?  where'd you get the idea that
                                   farmers are subsidized for the purpose
                                   of creating non-meat food items?
                    actually are what we consider locusts to be. We devour
                    resources beyond what eco-systems can handle. While less
                    evil is NOT "okay," it's still a lesser of the two evil.
                    \_ I think it is better to live in harmony with the planet
                       than to destroy it a bit slower.  I see no point in
                       that.  So it takes 100 years instead of 50 to make the
                       planet unlivable, so what?
                 \_ Who's playing that game?  I also think local sourcing is
                    important.  It's just silly to talk about the carbon
                    footprint of veggies as being bad relative to meat.  -tom
                    \_ Only you were talking about that strawman.  The rest of
                       us were talking by then about how importing your veggies
                       from all over the world at all times of year is very
                       hypocritical if you're doing it to save the planet.
                       \_ A lot of veggies can be imported by slow frieght.
                          That's actually amazingly efficient in large
                          quantities.  Yes it isn't as good as local; yes
                          there is a bigger carbon footprint, but it's still
                          way less than cheap factory farmed meat.  Probably
                          orders of magnitudes less.  It's the air freight
                          veggies that are a disgusting waste of fossil fuels.
                       \_ Uh, you're the one setting up the straw man.
                          Did anyone defend importing veggies from all
                          over the world?  -tom
                          \_ You're just pulling my leg now, right?  Did you
                             even read the Op or the article or anything or
                             just came around looking for another motd ring
                             around the rosie rhetorical dance?  Whatever.
                             Have the last word to say whatever.  I'm not going
                             to waste more time or precious bits on this.
                             \_ The article talks about saving by focusing on
                                seasonal/local produce.  You are the only
                                person to have brought up importation.  Your
                                troll fu sucks. --scotsman
                                \_ Actually his troll fu is mighty, since he
                                   started a huge flamewar over nothing but
                                   his inability to read and comprehend
                                   carefully.
2007/6/7 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:46883 Activity:nil
6/7     Dutch students invent powdered alcohol:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/2xoe37 (news.yahoo.com)
        \_ Powdered alcohol has been around a long time.  Their only
           inventiveness is in circumventing the age/tax laws.
2007/5/31-6/13 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Health/Disease/General] UID:46800 Activity:low
5/28    I'm in Mendocino now. What is worth doing here? I don't drink
        wine BTW.
        \_ Skunk Train.  Lost Coast beach hike (20+ miles).
           Buy hydroponics.  -tom
           \_ I 2nd the Lost Coast hike.  do it now, don't do it
              in the winter!
        \_ Mendocino is a pretty big place. Are you near Jenner or Ukiah
           or Leggett? Orr Hot Springs is quite nice, especially if you
           like naked hippies. There is great beer in Hopland, at the
           Medocino Brewing Company. You can kayak in the bay near Jenner.
           Bodega Bay is really beautiful and there are lots of things
           to do there, including diving for abalone. Occidental is nice
           to do there, including diving for abalone. Occidental is good
           if you want to get out of the fog. -ausman
        \_ Mendocino Brewing Company is good, as is Anderson Valley
           Brewing Company in Boonville. Try to find and read a copy
           of the _Letters of Wanda Tinasky_.
        \_ I was the op. Mendocino was a cute little walkable town. I
           liked going to the one and only supermarket. It was almost
           comparable to Trader Joe and Whole Food Market. Other than that
           all the shops were selling useless things that no one really
           needed. Food was pretty good, but nothing that you
           couldn't get from the city. Fort Bragg totally sucked unless
           you were interested in riding the Skunk Train. Weather was
           far from ideal-- it never got above 63F, and overcast all the
           time. Cold and windy. The drive to Mendocino was a total drag.
           Route 128 was full of trailers, curves, etc etc. It was
           painful to be on 128 for nearly 3 hours. Overall, the pain of
           going to Mendocino was not forth the little pleasure you get
           being there. I hate Mendocino and I'm never going back.
           \_ sounds like you didn't take anyone's advice.
           \_ I grew up there.  It used to be a nice little hippie town, until
              it got taken over by parasites (aka tourists) and all of the
              stores that sold useful things were replaced by real estate
              offices selling vacation homes and Wilkes Bashford outlets.
              It sounds like you missed out on all the truly interesting
              stuff that's hiding there, so you might want to consider getting
              better advice and giving it another chance.  --lye
           \_ I advised you to go over the hill to someplace sunny, if you
              got sick of the fog. -ausman
2007/5/25-28 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:46756 Activity:moderate
5/25    I don't really care about ethics and how people look at me. Is it
        perfectly legal to be an asshole and NOT tip at restaurants?
        \_ If you can't afford to leave a few bucks on the table then you
           can't afford to eat out.  It is legal but you should examine your
           economic situation more closely if that level of cash outlay
           actually matters to you before you go out again.  Or just eat at
           fast food places where we don't tip.  McDonald's sounds like the
           right level for you anyway.  And woe be if you're out with 99% of
           this country and don't put in your fair share for tip.  Your
           fellow diners will remember and hold it against you forever which
           is likely to cost you a lot more over time than the tip.  So don't
           be a trolling cheap-ass and leave a few bucks.
        \_ It's legal.  You should move to Korea.  No tipping culture.
           \_ Or Japan.
        \_ just dont go to the same place twice..unless you like
           special sauces or something
        \_ In a country where people's wages are reduced because they're
           expected to get tips, it's rude, boorish, and petty to not tip.
           There are plenty of countries where failing to tip is fine, but
           the U.S. isn't one of them.
           However, it's not illegal.  Just fuckin' stupid.  -tom
           \- why is it stupid? it may obviously cause problems at
              tip-expected restaurants you expect to go back to, but
              for one offs, i think it is assholish and you might get
              deservedly abused, but stupid suggesting it will hurt
              you, not sure why you would say that.
              \_ driving a single-occupant SUV to work every day may not
                 hurt you, but it's stupid.
                 \- i think buying $400 shoes is usually stupid too, but
                    usually people mean something like "it is irrational"
                    rather than "i wouldnt do it" or other "bad" behavior
                    like being selfish, or an asshole etc. in fact often
                    assholeish behavior like freeriding is "rational".
                    is not contributing to npr/public tv stupid? no, i dont
                    think so. so in some cases you can show people are
                    behaving irrationally when they dont realize it, but
                    it's incumbent on you do present some argument. for
                    example the study that shows there is a corrlation
                    between car price and a question like "how much do you
                    like your car" but there isnt a correlation between
                    car price and how pleasant/unpleasant was your commute.
                    i.e. people thing about their cars different when they
                    are thinkign about their cars and how the use experience
                    transpires. ok thanks i have to go now i am in a hurry.
                    \_ I don't know about you but I personally think a late
                       30 year old ambiguously gay Indian guy spending
                       ~$1000 a month eating nice food and drinking
                       fine wine is beyond stupid.
                       \- i probably drink less than 2 bottles of wine a
                          month. i hate spending money on wine. to me it
                          is a "tax" on going out to eat with friends.
                          unless you live with your parents, i probably also
                          have a higher savings rate than you do. of all the
                          ad hominems directed at me in the motd, this is
                          about the lamest, e.g. starting with "i dont know
                          about you ..."
2007/5/24-26 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Health/Sleeping] UID:46742 Activity:moderate
5/24    serious question here:  I take a dump every other day or so.
        after my last few acts of congress, I'm really sleepy,
        for several hours.  what's the deal?  does this happen
        to everyone?
        \_ Whahh?! That's very rare shitting.  I shit about 3-4 times a day and
           also eat 4-5 times a day, I don't think what I do is normal
           either.
           \_ Are you bulimic?
        \_ More fiber, less spicy food.
        \_ No. You are not healthy.
        \_ See a doctor.
                \_ The closest I get to a doctor is watching House.
                   \_ And just before they perform some incredibly dangerously
                      invasive procedure they figure out you've been eating
                      too many twinkies and send you home.
        \_ I don't think I've ever been unusually sleepy after a poo, that's
           kinda odd.  Generally pooing once a day is considered regular.
           At every other day you should probably eat more fiber and drink
           more water.  (Not soda, beer, etc.)
           However, despite a diet unusally high in fiber and water, I still
           take about 20 mins on the can.  My wife is done in about 1 min.
           I don't know why this is.
           \_ Maybe she won't shit where she eats..  So to speak.
           \_ Maybe you and your wife should consider switching roles during
              anal sex.
        \_ I feel more alert after a nice poo.  Weird thing for me lately:
           smelling a strong coffee odor when I pee after having had coffee
           earlier. I can't recall any other food making it through my
           system with its olfactory properties intact like that.
           \_ HOW WEIRD! I've been noticing the same thing! I've never
              noticed that till recently. I'm in my 30s.
           \_ Stop drinking coffee.  It is bad for you anyway.
2007/5/10-14 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:46581 Activity:nil
5/9     Heineken beer navigation:
        http://adsoftheworld.com/files/images/heineken1.jpg
        \_ Wow, that's dumb.
2007/3/23-26 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:46077 Activity:nil
3/23    Wow, German judge approves wife-beating based on Koran
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070322/wl_afp/germanyjusticeislam_070322132641
        \_ Anyone have background on this?  Sounds like the judge is playing
           provocateur.
        \_ And in other news in the march of Sharia, Target has some cachiers
           who won't ring up pork products.
           http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/16925919.htm
           \_ I don't understand why anyone would be this afraid of pork.  The
              Korean says don't eat it, not fear it.
              Koran says don't eat it, not fear it.
           \_ Is that the same Target where fundie pharmacists refused to
              dispense birth control?
2007/2/10 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:45703 Activity:nil 50%like:45699
2/9     Heh: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1592288510
        [Seduced by Bacon by Joanna Pruess]
2007/2/10-12 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:45699 Activity:nil 50%like:45703
2/9     Heh: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1592288510
2006/9/1-5 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:44245 Activity:moderate
9/1     I want to give a small gift to several faculty members who are
        writing me letters of recommendation. What's an appropriate,
        professional gift I could get them? Any ideas will be appreciated.
        Thanks.
        \_ A big brown paper bag full of cash.  Make sure you hand it over
           in person with no witnesses present.  Preferably in a dark
           alley.
        \_ If you are female and the professors are female, get a gift card
           to Nordstrom or a day spa like Burke Williams.
           If you are male and the professors are female, get a gift card to
           your favorite classy lunch spot.
           If you are female and the professors are male, a simple piece
           of paper with your phone number written on it, along with the
           short message "Call me anytime" will suffice.
           If you are male and the professors are male, then you are a total
           fag.
        \_ Succeed in their field and expand their empire.  Mwuahahahah!!!
           I think it's clear what they all want.
        \_ Paper weight.
        \_ Starbucks gift cards. My profs really liked these.
        \_ Nice pens.  -John
           \_ but nice pens cost a lot.  wouldn't you think it would both
              parties a bit uncomfortable?   How about a nice, made-in-China
              fake pens?  Tell him/her flat out that those are fakes.  It
              has a lot of entertainment value.
              \_ They needed.  Yes, if you're looking at ebony & silver
              \_ They needn't.  Yes, if you're looking at ebony & silver
                 Faber-Castell fountain pens, they'll run a few hundred.  But
                 Cross and others make really nice, not-crazily-priced ones
                 too.  Anyway, it was just a suggestion.  The wine idea
                 below is good too (just make sure they drink.)  -John
              \- ObBottleofWineInYourBudget. Even if faculty member doesnt
                 drink can take to colleague party. Give a gift that is
                 consumable rather than persistent. If you are in Berkeley,
                 go down to Kermit Lynch and talk to one of them.
                        \_ Does a big variety bag full of different types
                           of condoms from Good Vibrations count as
                           "consumable rather than persistent?"
                           \_ Yes, those are consumable.  However, you may
                              be sending the wrong message to your professor.
                        \_ I considered wine, but I then I thought (falsely?)
                           that alcohol might be inappropriate. I'll
                           consider it now. -op
                           \- a bottle of tequila is inappropriate.
                              wine is ok. [well i suppose it is
                              possible if one is muslim or something
                              like that it might be inapprorpate.
                              but wine is easy to get rid of in the
                              academic social milleu]. wine is the
                              standard.
2006/8/18-19 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:44065 Activity:moderate
8/18    Re: government per diem rates
        It looks like per diem for Paris is $155. Per diem for San
        Francisco is only $64. Overall, foreign per diems are much,
        much higher. I dunno why. I have only travelled domestically
        on government business and I find the sums paltry. $155/day
        isn't bad at all, though. That is in addition to hotel.
        \_ Maybe you should't work for the government then, eh?  Would you
           like some cheese with your whine?
           \_ Please post your name so we can examine your situation and
              give you short shrift the next time you have an issue.
        \_ They don't want you hiring cheap foreign whores.
           \_ Only the best for the on-travel types!
        \_ I find it a lot easier to travel cheaply when I speak the
           language natively.  Maybe that has something to do with it?
           \- what do you spend your per diems on other than food? $65
              seems perfectly reasonable for food to me. especially since
              if you are under the per diem you generally dont need to
              submit receipts.
              \_ $65 would be a very nice $10 breakfast at Le Zinc,
                 a very nice $20 lunch at Fog City Diner with $35 left
                 over for steak and a glass of wine at Encanto or Delfina.
                 I don't know what this guy is bitching about.
                 \_ Transportation can cost a hell of a lot if you are
                    some place for bussiness.  But I agree, 65 seems enough.
                    \- if that is so, you can rent a car and expense
                       parking separately from the per diem. need receipts
                       for those. when i was in chicago for a week, the
                       travel people foolishly rented a car for me and
                       paid like $28/day to park it at the hotel ...
                       used it twice for personal business.
                       \_ So are taxis seperate as well?
                          \- they used to be. may need receipt tho ...
                             same for airport shuttle etc. there are
                             big problems with govt travel, but the
                             per diem isnt one of them.
2006/7/23-24 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:43764 Activity:low
7/23    After a long time thinking all tequila is gross, I've decided I like
        "the good stuff" straight.  I like ones that taste more like aloe/pine
        or minerally, but less like vanilla/butterscotch.  Any types I should
        try?
        \- oh hello, i think tres genercions is pretty good and not
           difficult to find. you may also analyze El Viejito and
           "El Corredor" [i'm not sure i have that name right ...
        \_ i really like el tesoro reposado and el jimador. ultra high end
           stuff like El Tesoro Paradiso and Don Julio 1942 are more akin to
           cognac... good stuff, but not necessarily worth the $$$.
           \_ As something of a neophyte I'm not sure if what I'm looking for
              is the more aged tequilas.  I like the mellow woody flavors you
              get in aged whiskey or brandy, but won't that make tequila lose
              the 'zesty' parts? -OP
              \_ Dona Tomas on Telegraph and 51st has a superb set of tequila
                 tasters that might help you out. --erikred
        \- oh hello, i think TRES GENERCIONS is pretty good and not
           difficult to find. you may also analyze EL VIEJITO and
           EL CORREDOR [i'm not sure i have that name right ...
           i was in my tequila phase like 6yrs ago ... i dont really
           drink any more]. yeah, some of these sipping tequilas, some are
           really peppery/minerally. you should just go to one of the
           places with a large tequila stock, e.g. Tommy's out in the
           avenues on geary, or maybe Guaymas [in tiburon], if you want
           to make it a nice evening with your associates. for shooting/
           mixing tequilas, i think HORNITOS RESPOSADO and SAUZA SILVER
           are ok. [there is also a more accessible place called COLIBRI
           downtown, but it is really expensive].
           places with a large tequila stock, e.g. TOMMY'S out in the
           avenues on geary is THE STANDARD. Also Guaymas [in tiburon],
           if you want to make a bit of an event out of it. [there is
           also a more accessible place called COLIBRI downtown, but it
           is quite expensive]. for shooting/mixing tequilas, i think
           HORNITOS RESPOSADO and SAUZA SILVER are ok.
        \_ Above a certain $$, they're mostly the same quality-wise,
           as a good bartender will tell you.  As TSB says, go to a place
           with a big stock and a bartender that looks experienced and try
           a few (after the first 8 you won't know the difference.)  Just note
           that real tequila doesn't have a worm, comes from one of only 5
           states, and doesn't have to contain more than 51% agave.  Look for
           premium (100% agave) tequila, not from syrup.  You may also want
           to consider mescal; there are some high quality mescals that are
           the exact same as tequila, but because of denominacion de origen
           laws, can't use the name.  And are way less expensive than super-
           premium tequilas.  Enjoy.  -John
           \- If you go to TOMMY'S, you can also participate in the
              TEQUILLA CHALLENGE.
2006/5/11-14 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:43015 Activity:nil
5/11    Dear balsamic vinegar beef marinate guy and red wine beef marinate
        guy. I have new test results. 4/5 of my test subjects consistently
        prefer the taste of balsamic vinegar beef, and 5/5 prefer the
        tenderness of the red wine beef. I reproduced the results twice,
        using Costco new york beef marinated for 3 days. This week I am
        going to experiment a hybrid approach by marinating the beef with
        red wine to make the meat more tender, then put balsamic vinegar
        right before I cook them. I'll report results next week. ok thx.
2006/4/22-25 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:42800 Activity:nil
4/21    Alumni BBQ Poll -- What did you guys think about the bbq?  I know it
        was nice to meet a lot of you for the first time and put a face to the
        extremely disgusting links/comments I see all the time. -mrauser
        Good:
        - Steaks and sausages were excellent
        Bad:
        Ugly:
        - No tom/partha/dans cagematch, I want my money back!
          \_ I don't get why you think I care about dans.  He made some
             stupid comments on MOTD, I pointed out that they were stupid,
             he persisted (and persists).  That doesn't separate him from
             a dozen other twinks.
             My comment would be, if you create a new politburo position
             for alumni relations, you should manage to do better publicity
             than one email sent weeks in advance and complete failure to
             announce the location.  -tom
             \_ hear hear
        \_ Hear, hear.
        \_ I'd really want to know where they got the steaks from.  They
           were *that* good unmarinated.  I shoulda prolly poured beer on mine
           whilst on the grill.  I also appreciated the lack of lecturing
           going on, everyone just seemed happy to hang out and see each
           other.
        - At one point there was 8 guys, and 4 girls.  I think that's a
          record?
        Bad:
        - danh still cannot open his car. Can someone call AAA for him?
        Ugly:
        - No tom/partha/dans cagematch, I want my money back!
          \_ I don't get why you think I care about dans.  He made some
             stupid comments on MOTD, I pointed out that they were stupid,
             he persisted (and persists).  That doesn't separate him from
             a dozen other twinks.
             My comment would be, if you create a new politburo position
             for alumni relations, you should manage to do better publicity
             than one email sent weeks in advance and complete failure to
             announce the location.  -tom
             \_ hear hear
             \_ Probably because you keep responding to him.
2006/3/28-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:42504 Activity:high
3/29    http://www.viceland.com/int/v13n3/htdocs/coffee.php?country=us
        Another choice is Chinese food. Chinese-food restaurants above 96th
        street are as ubiquitous as Starbucks coffee shops are in the rest of
        the city, but they look like Mao designed them. A table or two, a
        metal grill door, and two or three gas jets is all you're getting.
        Also, the employees are actually Chinese, and by that I mean two weeks
        ago they were in China. I always feel bad for these guys. Their
        average height is about 5'3", they weigh maybe 95 pounds, and they
        speak no English. And these are the DELIVERYMEN! Not surprisingly,
        they get robbed with alarming frequency. Hell, most women could kick
        their asses. I always like to speculate what these guys' lives are
        like as I take a report and try to find the kids who took their $42
        and BBQ spare ribs. One day you're in China, kicking around the
        countryside, checking on your crops, then three days later you're on
        the 25th floor of a housing project with a bleeding lip and no money,
        trying to explain to me what happened with the 25 English words you
        know. They keep coming over, though, so I can't help but think, "Damn,
        Communist China must really, really suck."
        \_ aspolito has a huge ass.
        \_ Most of the Chinese restaurant workers who came here illegally
           are from Fuzhou, China.  I read a wsj article a year or two ago
           saying that the Fuzhou people no longer care to come to the US,
           because China's economy is booming and there are better
           opportunities there.  That's why these days, I noticed they
           are being quickly replaced by Mexicans.  At its height, the
           Fuzhou guys have a really good network.  Dump one of them in
           Fuzhou-nese have a really good network.  Dump one of them in
           any US city, and he would be able to find someone from his
           hometown, and thus find work and housing, and make a living,
           albeit a not very good one, relatively speaking.
           hometown, and thus find work and housing, and survive.  Their
           superb overseas network was one of the reasons why many of
           them were able to come the US to work for a while, make some
           money, and then go home.
           money, and then go home.  Fuzhou is part of the Fujian
           province.  The Fujianese, together with Cantonese, Hakkas,
           Teochews, make up a big part of the Chinese diaspora, and
           dominate the economies of Taiwan, Hongkong, Thailand,
           Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Filipines.  These dialect
           groups are all from poor fringe coastal regions of southern
           China, though the Hakkas always believed they have royal
           northern bloodlines, and migrated south when northern China
           was invaded.  The poverty of these regions resulted in a
           tradition of emigration and entrepreneurship.
           \_ That's nice. So which group has the prettiest women?
        \_ Are you angry because even they have a job, while you don't?
        \_ Are you angry because they have a job, while you don't?
           \_ I'm not angry.  I thought it was a funny writing piece.  I hope
              the recent Chinese immigrants assimulate into my country and
              lead productive satisfying lives but something tells me they
              won't.
              \_ You are easily amused.
              \_ That's what people always say about new immigrants.  What
                 usually happens is the first generation doesn't assimilate
                 very much and ends up middle class but their kids do fine.
                 \_ I would settle for "ending up middle class".  Nothing
                    wrong with that.
                    \_ Not to Chinese. Haven't you noticed how hard they make
                       their kids study and they all have to be doctors and
                       lawyers? Middle class is failure.
                       \_ Yeah but 1st generation don't end up doctors and
                          lawyers, but a helluva lot better than when they
                          were FOB.
                          \_ Actually, I've been meeting quite a few
                             first generation doctors and lawyers lately.
                             Seems like they have made it easier for
                             foreigners to become doctors in the US.
                             This is bad.  These jobs
                             should be reserved for Americans, and
                             first generation foreigners should stick
                             to restaurant work.
                                \- i think the AMAs efforts to make it harder
                                   for indian and russian doctors to practice
                                   here is well known.
                                   \_ Foreign doctors need to pass the same
                                      board exams everyone else does to
                                      practice here.
                                      \- See e.g. particularly section
                                         on physicians:
              http://www.cepr.net/publications/professional_supplement.htm
                                         I didnt know about the clinical
                                         skills exam that is only given
                                         in Philadelphia. Also, a tricky
                                         part of this is how to "distinguish"
                                         between american who went to foreign
                                         medical schools because they couldnt
                                         get into med school here and
                                         foreigners trained in their home
                                         country who want to come here.
                                         in addition of visa-obtaining
                                         issues, and language testing, there
                                         is the "fifth pathway" program.
                                         I am not an expert on this but it's
                                         well understood that self-regulating
                                         bodies like the ABA and AMA engage
                                         in "income protection" plans under
                                         the guise of "public safety" [yes,
                                         irconic reference to french rev],
                                         see e.g. the nolo v texas case.
                                         BTW, I am not suggesting foreign
                                         trained doctors are as well trained,
                                         but this is an area where the outcomes
                                         area heavily dictated by regulation
                                         rather the "free mkt".
              http://www.cepr.net/publications/professional_supplement.htm
                             \_ Sorry but those comments just spew of
                                complete ignorance.  If 1st generation-ers
                                are competent and contribute in a meaningful
                                way, there should be nothing wrong with that.
                                Do you somehow believe you should have
                                natural right to having everything spoon fed
                                to you?
             \_ I hope they do well too, but I like them doing their
                own thing, which adds diversity and spice to my country.
        \_ Sorry, but I have more sympathy for our kids who get sent to
           places like Vietnam and Iraq, and come back missing a leg, a
           ball, and half a dick, angry and confused as to how they got
           their arse kicked by 80 pounds, 4'9" vietnamese peasant hags
           and stone age desert tribes.  Just browse through the "Names
           of the Dead" ... 18 years old ... 21 years old ... all tender,
           fresh and innocent.  What a waste.
           \_ Good one. It's sad to see our brave soldiers maimed there and
              then come back to the states and wait on the freeway with the
              sign "Vietnam War Soldier Spare a Dime." In addition I have
              to say that these tiny little Viet soldiers on the other side
              did quite a bit of damage despite their lack of equipments
              and trainings. If tiny little men can do big jobs, it makes
              you go hmmmmm. Lastly on my rant I'd like to commend
              these tiny little men who reproduce really hot Vietnamese women

              \_ I am glad you've found solace with tiny little men.
                 Vietnamese girls are not my cup of tea, but hey, if they are
                 a fit for you, whom am I to object.  At least you didn't
                 become a pedophile.
                 \_ If it weren't for tiny little women there would be more
                    pedofiles in America.                       -op
                    \_ thanks for sharing your sexual disposition with us.
           \_ I don't think they were confused.  I think it's pretty clear that
              a 4'9" 80 lbs stone age vietnamese desert tribe peasant can kill
              you when armed with modern weapons in a proxy war fighting on
              their own turf.  Angry?  Probably.  Confused?  Not likely.
              A waste?  Yes, of course, big time.
              \_ Maybe I didn't phrase it right, but I meant confused in
                 the sense of "WTF am I doing in this hellhole getting
                 killed?!  I don't belong here.  I want my mom!"
                 \_ Not the ones I know who have been in combat.
                    \_ Really?  How then did so many of them beoome
                       depressed, suicidal, alcohol and drug addicts,
                       etc.?
                       \_ What is "so many"?  And how does that percent compare
                          to the general population who was never in the
                          military?  Obviously it is an anecdotal sample set
                          but all the ones I know are normal people who came
                          back and got on with their lives.  We've sent
                          millions overseas in the 20th century.  Our society
                          is not overrun by millions of depressed, suicidal,
                          alcoholic drug addicted ex-soldiers.  (But is overrun
                          by millions of depressed, drug addicted civilians).
                          \_ "percent"? "general population"?  "sample set"?
                             Sorry, this is too hard.  I am American.  I
                             watch teevee, and teevee says they're
                             depressed and suicidal.
                          \_ You are right. I am wrong.
2006/3/20-25 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:42324 Activity:nil
3/20    "Michael Pollan is one of the foremost food and plant experts
        in America. He wrote The Botany of Desire a few years ago, he
        teaches about food, plants, and biodiversity at the University
        of California, Berkeley, and he just finished a new book called
        The Omnivore's Dilemma.  It's about eating in the same way
        that the Bible is about God."
        http://www.viceland.com/int/v13n3/htdocs/children.php?country=us
2006/3/20-21 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:42323 Activity:nil
3/20    Journal of eating an entire cow:
        http://www.viceland.com/int/v13n3/htdocs/eating.php?country=us
        \_ zzz. just a bunch of pics of raw cow meat.
2006/3/7-9 [Recreation/Food, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:42126 Activity:low
3/7     Dear balsalmic vinegar beef marinating guy. What kind of vinegar
        do you use? White? And what brand is good? Thanks.
        \_ I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess... balsamic.
           \_ The message above is obviously written by someone ignorant. There are
              many types. White distilled vinegar, rasbery balsamic vinegar, red
           \_ [80 col. please]
              wine balsamic vinegar (most common), olive vinegar, rice vinegar,
              so on so forth.
           \_ In fairness to the OP, there is such a thing as white balsamic
              vinegar.  But you ought to use the regular dark kind.  Quality
              it not *too* important, so just get something halfway decent.
              -- different balsamic marinating guy
              \_ Racist!
                 \_ Balsamic vinegar of color, then.
        \_ Stop giving me black medicine! ... I mean ... black vinegar.
2006/3/2-5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:42073 Activity:moderate
3/2     So much for federalism.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_on_he_me/food_warnings
        \_ 1) federalism is LONG dead (in these united states)
           2) Whatever the possibly undesirable outcomes of such legislation,
              the concept of unified food labeling is completely consistent
              with the principles of Federalism and in particular with the
              interstate commerce clause of our constitution.  It boggles
              my mind, that in a time in which that clause is used to
              justify (successfully, btw, see the CA marijuana case) leg.
              regarding things that aren't even commerce, let alone inter-
              state commerce, that you would point to the above link as
              some sort of watershed legislation signifying the end of Fed.ism
              I suspect (just a guess, and i don't know who you are since you
              didn't sign, so don't get all offended) that you are just some
              dumb leftist who doesn't have the first clue about federalism
              (and probably doesn't care) but (mistakenly) thinks he has caught
              his "opponents"(a larger mistake I won't go into), in some sort
              of a hypocrisy/contradiction. -crebbs
              some sort of watershed legislation signifying the end of
              Federalism. -crebbs
        \_ "Consumers across the country deserve a single set of science-based
           food warning requirements, not the confusing patchwork that we have
           today," said Rep. Marsha Blackburn (news, bio, voting record),
           R-Tenn.
           I demand faith-based food warning requirements!
           \_ According to the bible, a believer can drink any poison
              and survive, so why do we need food warnings at all? Note
              I'm getting this from a recent Boston Legal episode, but
              I'm sure some Christian can give the reference.
              \_ you are right, see Psalm 91:11,12 - (1)
                 but then you are also wrong, see Deuteronomy 6:13 - (2)
                 but then you are also wrong, see Deuteronomy 6:16 - (2)
                 and then there is Matthew 4 where satan uses (1) and
                 Jesus uses (2) in reply.
                 oh wait, u are just trolling.  doh!
                 \_ The bible contradicts itself? You're shattering my
                    world!
                 \_ Psalm isn't the (very general, directly countered in
                    Matthew 4) reference they were talking about; they were
                    talking about Matthew 16:18.
                    talking about Mark 16:18.
                    \_ Deuteronomy 6:13 applies to Mark 16:18 too.  It's
                    \_ Deuteronomy 6:16  applies to Mark 16:18 too.  It's
                       the same idea.
                       \_ "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him,
                          and shalt swear by his name."  -- Deut 6:13
                          ooooooook...
                       (note: verse corrected from 6:13 to 6:16. thanks!)
                          \_ My bad.  It's Deut 6:16.
              \_ To think I wasted years of my life building up an immunity
                 to iocane powder when all I needed to do was believe.
                 -westley
           \_ Do you really think that we would be better off leaving all
              food labeling to the states? The FDA std labeling require-
              ments for many types of foods are a net positive for consu-
              mers in terms of consistency and safety. You can go to any
              store in any state in the union and read the label and know
              what you are getting. That is a good thing in my book.
              I agree that taking away the ability of the states to add
              extra warnings could be a bad thing, but if the federal stds
              are better than the state stds, then maybe it would be okay.
              \_ If you read the article, this isn't about "better federal
                 in place of"; it's about states adding extra, and mfrs.
                 complaining b/c of cost.
                 \_ I read the article (hence, the "I agree, ..."). I was
                    suggesting that in this case abs. federalism would not
                    be a good thing. I have not read the bill, but if the
                    stds it required were more than anything the states
                    currently required (unlikely) it could be a good thing
                    as well.
                    \- The POWER of CAROLENE PRODUCTS
2006/2/22-27 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:41960 Activity:nil
2/22    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/germany_manure_dc
        URL self explanitory. Heil Shit Eating German John!!!
        \_ What kind of wine pairs well with pig manure?
        \_ shit eating? what the fuck is your problem? seriously?
2006/2/22-23 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:41948 Activity:moderate
2/22    How do you like to prepare your steak? I'll start:
        \_ marinate it in cheap cabernet for a whole week.
           tender and tasty. Yummmm
        \_ Seasoned with Crazy Salt, paprika, garlic powder, grilled, then
           liberally doused with butter and lemon. Scrumptious.
        \_ Coarse Sea Salt, Coarse Black Pepper, oil the grill, grill to
           medium rare.  Keep it simple.
        \_ I just had an awesome filet done in balsamic vinegar.  Yum. -John
           \_ how long do you guys marinate it for? I had this awsome
              steak that melted in the mouth one time. The waitress said
              they age their steak in wine barrels for a few months.
              I wonder what kind of marinate they used.
              \_ Perhaps you misheard or she misspoke.  If you 'aged' steak in
                 a marinade for months you would have only putrid sludge.
                 I'm thinking she might have meant 'dry aged' meat.  Getting
                 back to your original question: Depends on size.  Steaks
                 typically 12-36 hours.  Larger roasts, 24-72 hrs.
                 \_ I have seen the results of marinating the head of a moose
                    in a 55 gallon drum of water for months, and it was indeed
                    putrid sludge.
2006/2/22-27 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:41947 Activity:moderate
2/22    What's the difference between Cabernet, Merlot, Zinfandel, Pinot
        Noir, Syrah, Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, and Semillon?
        \_ Basic answer is that they are all varietals of the same species
           of grape: vitis vinifera. Wines are sometimes made from other
           species as well, for instance vitis aestivalis (Norton grape),
           but are generally not well-regarded. Vitis vinifera has its
           origins in Europe and was brought to the New World because most
           New World grapes make bad wine.
        \- er do you know they are the mostly the names of grapes varieties
           or are you asking more than that. usa: wine named after main grape.
           france: wine named after place it comes from. the usa system is a
           lot more friendly. if you want a user friendly book for just
           basic basics [i.e. to prepare you to order non-french wines]
           you get look at say the DUMMY WINE BOOK. to start out you can
           learn what is red and what is white and the rough mapping
           from grape -> french region [e.g. cab -> bordeaux, syrah -> rhone,
           pinot noir -> burgandy etc]. cab: expensive. merlot: some ok.
           zin: ass, pinot noir: good, pinot gris: good. chardonnay:
           \_ I'm quite fond of the Ravenswood Zinfandel, though there does
              seem to be a mediocre vintage every few years.  It's fairly
              cheap to, usually $6-$10 at Trader Joe's, maybe $8-$15 at
              Safeway or Andronico's.  Also, I'd highly recommend visiting
              the North Berkeley wine shop.  They always do well by me. -dans
           cheap are ass, same with chablis go with sancerre or PG instead
           if not $$$. i would not invest more than 30 min learning about
           wine. beyond the basics all you need to know is a good wine store
           [kermit lynch in berkeley]. if you have a more specific question,
           why dont you ask it, like "what is a good $15 red that is easy
           to find?".
           to find?" [safeway, rodney strong].
        \_ One thing to consider is that different regions handle different
           types of wines better than others.  I'd recommend learning a
           little bit about what grape types usually have what qualities,
           but only as a general guideline, and what sort of provenance is
           more suited for what types.  Mr. Winerjee is right about just
           bothering with the basics; don't let anyone tell you "rules", just
           try things out.  The best is if people can point out various good
           and bad aspects of certain wine types (such as how to look for
           complexity, and why and when things like color and age matter), but
           I usually steer clear of anyone who claims to be an expert.  With
           time you'll start appreciating differences and qualities more.
           One last thing--within a certain price band (varies by country)
           there's usually some correlation between quality and price, but
           once again, only as a very rough & approximate guide.  Always try
           new stuff and don't be afraid to ask, even if a crappy sommelier
           does b.s. you at some point--you'll spot this with time.  Always
           remember, it's just a drink, you have to like it.  -John
           \- Here is the 30 second list of grapes -> taste mapping:
              *cab: usually fair amount of tannin unless expensive
                   strives for full body and complex taste.
                   the king of red wines.
                          \_ Tannin has more to do with age. Some of the
                             best are extremely tannic, but the tannins
                             mellow with age.
              *merlot: fruitier and lighters than cab
              *pinot noir: less ambitious than cab but less tannin so
                          more likely to be good for cheep
                          \_ More likely than *what* to be good for cheap?
                             Cab, maybe. Any other wine, probably not.
                          \_ Most likely to be non-repugnant for cheap. Least
                             likely to be good for cheap.
                          \_ Pinot is less likely to be good for cheap.
              *syrah/shiraz: i have nothing to say
                          \_ Popular Rhone varietal along with grenache
                             and mourvedre. Makes outstanding wine.
              geweurtz,*riesling: sweet
              sancerre/*pinot gris: watery ... i dont mean that in a bad way.
                                   esp since i like spicy food
              *zin: spicy. i dont like zins. doesnt go well with the food i
                          like. yes i have had some good zins.
                          \_ This is the typical wine for Italian food.
                                  \- I prefer THE POWER OF BAROLO but that
                                     is beyond the price of this thread.
                             The good ones are better alone or with
                             cheese than with food.
                             \_ Also goes well with grilled meats and BBQ.
                                There are a lot of bad ones out there though..
              *chardonnay: good ones are crispy and dryish but cheep ones
                          i think are not to my taste. i'd rather drink the
                          even cheeper pinot gris.
                          the king of white wines.
              I would try a $12-$20 bottle of each of the 7 *ed wines
              and that should give you a representative sense of each.
              I wouldnt worry about the varieties until you decide how
              serious you want to get about wine (time and money).
              n.b. i would rather drink fruit juice than wine but i feel
              obligated to order when i go to restaurants with my friends.
              and i suppose it's good to be able to bring something
              reasonable to a dinner party. BTW, i think most wines can
              be described with this vocabulary: full/med/no body, yes/no
              tanin, sweet or not sweet, high/med/low fruity, spicy aka
              is it a zin, dry or wet. most of the people using words like
              nutty, buttery, raspberry, guava, choclate, leather etc
              have their head -> ass. you should learn about cheej not wine.
              \_ I had a Toad Hollow pinot the other day.  I couldn't place
                 the nose, but my roommate did.  Rotten Oranges.  It's not all
                 bullshit.
              \_ If you're feeling cheap, Trader Joe's has $3-$7 bottles of
                 most of the above types. When you're ready to try quality,
                 visit Vino in Rockridge or on Piedmont and plan to spend
                 $12 to $20 for decent examples. --erikred
                 \- i've had decent table wine in france for $4-5 but here
                    i think bottles in that range just taste sort of
                    generic (or bad).
                    \_ Generally speaking, you're playing with fire in the
                       $4-$5 a bottle range of wine, but you do get lucky from
                       time to time.  Nonetheless, what you just said flys
                       completely in the face of conventional wisdom and
                       actual events.  French table wine is shit.  It's so bad
                       that the French prefer cheap Californian wine to it.
                       This happened on such a large scale that the French
                       government had to impose massive import duties on cheap
                       California wine so French table winemakers wouldn't go
                       out of business. -dans
              \_ Were you ever really into comic books?  Did you ever have
                 three hour debates about the merits of various minor
                 characters in the X-men universe?  Wine "people" are like
                 that, only they're adults and frequently drunk.
                 \_ But you know what's funny?  Every discussion on the motd
                    having to do with wine ends up as a flame war about wine
                    dorks, and yet if someone had instead posted a highly
                    technical question about an X-man, it would be seriously
                    debated for three screens with no one pointing out how
                    dorky it is.
                 \_ You forgot one other distingiushing characteristic.  As
                    comic dorks age, they realize that a better use of their
                    comic collection is to keep it in good condition and sell
                    it, ending up with a net profit.  Wine dorks on the other
                    hand, drink up their stupid and expensive hobby. Which
                    is of course the point.
                    \_ Lots of wine people collect more wine than they
                       drink. However, drinking it is a lot more fun
                       than selling comics. Collecting comics will, for
                       instance, probably not get you laid. Collecting
                       wine probably will.
                       \_ I dispute that.  And I will further state that
                          people who will fuck you because of your comics
                          collection are far better lays than people who will
                          fuck you because of your wine collection. -dans
                          \_ Not 'because' of the collection, but because
                             you shared it. I wouldn't touch any chick
                             that was into comics, BTW. Yuck.
                             \_ The notion that one might have a collection of
                                *anything* he/she was really into and not
                                share it with an SO is just bizarre.  And your
                                idea that `chicks' who are into comics are
                                yucky is silly and juvenile.  I'm going to
                                make an equally ridiculous logical leap and
                                guess that you won't touch women who have
                                tatoos or dyed hair or who perform what, to
                                you, must seem like bizarre deviant sex acts
                                such as oral and anal sex.  I hope you enjoy
                                your boring, missionary sex, with your boring,
                                missionary chix. -dans
                                \_ I think you miss the entire point,
                                   which is that you tend to have a lot
                                   more fun with women after you've shared
                                   2 bottles of wine with them than after you
                                   read Sandman #1 together - in general.
                                   BTW, tattoos are nasty on women. You are
                                   right that I don't touch that. More for
                                   you, I guess.
                                   \_  Wow.  So getting drunk and having sex
                                       can be fun.  I'll be damned.  You can
                                       do that with a bottle of Old Grandad
                                       as well.
                                       \_ Not if the woman has any class
                                          or taste you can't.
                                          \_ Well, I would probably hate the
                                             women you spend time with just
                                             as much as you would hate those
                                             I spend time with.  Yes, it's
                                             a class thing.  I just think
                                             people like you are shit, and
                                             obviously it's mutual.  So fuck
                                             you.
                                             \_ You need some anger management
                                                classes. I don't hate you
                                                at all.
                                   \_ Don't be stupid.  Breaking this down into
                                      wine/comics is a useless generalization.
                                      I suspect dans' point is more along the
                                      lines of "conservative snob != fun".
                                      But naturally women that read comics
                                      never ever drink.
                 \_ I went to an Exploratorium presentation on The Science of
                    Wine. It was funny to watch all of these very nicely
                    attired and sophisticated people degenerate into lushes.
                 \_ "Wine people" are as bad as restaurant groupies.  The
                    word you are looking for is "pretentious".  And for once,
                    amazingly, I agree with psb about "head->ass".  I'd
                    even go so far as to say that "x goes well with y" is no
                    more than a general guide; if you're ever in a restaurant
                    where the sommelier looks at you funny for ordering, say,
                    red with fish (or for any reason), leave.  -John
                    \- good sommaliers have come up with some neat pairings
                       and recommendations. but that's true of more than just
                       wine and food ... like pears go well with some cheejes,
                       chocolate and orange is a a classic combination,
                       chocolate and thyme is not. i can both think over
                       cooking a good steak is a waste and you have poor
                       taste or order such well done, yet support your right
                       "have it your way".
                 \_ The short chain organic molecules in wine do combine over
                    time to create the esters and phenols that create the
                    distrinctive smells of different foods. It is not just
                    your imagination if you smell leather or chocolate in
                    a wine, especially a well aged one, the exact same chemicals
                    that help give something its distinctive odor might be in
                    your wine. Don't assume that everyone has their head -> ass
                    time to create the esters, phenols and aldehydes that create
                    time to create the esters, phenols & aldehydes that create
                    the smells of different foods. It is not just your
                    time to create the esters, phenols and aldehydes that
                    create the smells of different foods. It is not just your
                    imagination if you smell leather or chocolate in a wine,
                    especially a well aged one, the exact same chemicals that
                    help give something its distinctive odor might be in your
                    wine. Don't assume that someone has their head -> ass
                    just because you cannot smell them. -ausman
                    \_ Dogs have much larger sections of their brains devoted to
                       smell than humans.  It would be amusing to train a dog
                       to distinguish all these subtle wine distinctions.
                    \_ Dogs have much larger sections of their brains devoted
                       to smell than humans.  It would be amusing to train a
                       dog to distinguish all these subtle wine distinctions.
                       to smell than humans. It would be amusing to train a dog
                       to distinguish all these subtle wine distinctions.
                       I think it would not be too hard to modify the drug dog
                       training for this purpose.
                    \_ Everyone recognizes different smells in wine, you are
                       absolutely correct.  The "head->ass" part comes from
                       my subjective observation that people who pontificate
                       about how marvelous wine xyz is because it smells like
                       the orgasmic fart of the black-striped Angolan bog
                       fungus or whatever tend to be pompous morons.  "Wine
                       people".  -John
                       \- jim ausman: there is a difference between
                          "ok i can see why you say this has a hint of
                          raspberry" after tasting something and taking
                          two of those head->ass adjective vectors and
                          using them as a basis to pick a wine. i'm saying
                          those little cards in stores that talk about how
                          one wine has a hint of nutmeg and chocolate and
                          cherry and other has a soupcon of lemon zest
                          crossed with clover honey is not useful. more
                          useful would be a 10 word vocabular that actually
                          mean something. maybe a good analogy is to
                          crayola. i understand you need to go beyond
                          RGB and "blue green" to describe some colors.
                          and you do get a sense of what color is meant
                          by peach or salmon or olive green ... but do you
                          have any fucking clue what color "raw umber" is?
                          ok tnx. (raw umber is the color of "dirt").
                          \_ There is no "raw umber" crayon; it was
                             "burnt umber," and it's been discontinued.
                             I agree that the cards in wine stores aren't
                             useful to someone who isn't a wine snob, but
                             certain wine snobs can quite accurately
                             determine a specific wine in blind taste
                             tests, so there's clearly something there. -tom
                             \- are you such an authority on crayons you
                                you didnt even bother to google this?
                                BTW, wine snobbery is about attitude, not
                                resolving power.
                                \_ tom -> smacked
2006/2/19-23 [Finance/CC, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:41928 Activity:kinda low
2/18    Does anyone know whether or not it is legal for a restaurant to
        withhold wages/tips from a waiter if a customer leaves without paying?
        This seems totally illegal to me but my google legal fu is weak.
        \_ Wages, no.  Tips, the portion the customer might reasonably be
           expected to tip. -dans
           \- i doubt that is legal. in CA management cannot force the
              tips to be shared with anybody not directly involved in
              front room service [can share with busboy butr not dishwasher
              front room service [can share with busboy but not dishwasher
              or cooks]. in fact i would think this is covered under some
              broader employment rules about you cant charge employees for
              fuckups like this. i can ask a acquiantance who is a chef-owner
              fuckups like this. i can ask an acquiantance who is a chef-owner
              in SF about the dine&&dash situation.
        \_ might depend on locale... see #9
      http://waiterrant.blogspot.com/2005/07/check-please-ah-check-my-favorite-part.html
           \_ That guy needs to seriously get a different job.
           \_ http://www.restaurant.org/legal/ask_archives.cfm -- whoops, next
              link down.
                \_ This answers the question. Since most waiters make minimum
                   wage (in CA), it's going to be illegal in most cases.
        \_ at least in santa clara county, you can call for a quick 20min
           free legal referral
        \_ It's illegal in all states my contact at the Golden Gate Rest.
           Assn. knows of.  If someone doesn't pay for a meal, obviously
           there's no tip for that meal for the rest. owner to withhold, but
           they may not withhold money from any of the other tips.  Nor can
           they charge waiters for broken dishes or the likes.  That said,
           there is a good reason why most people who matter in any given
           restaurant loathe waiters (especially primadonna prissy
           whores like the blogspot guy above).  Good ones are few and very
           far between and deserve a nice fat cash tip.  -John
           \- Your GGRA assicate isnt named "Dan" is he?
              \_ No, it's my friend Vinnie da Pesto Hammer.  -John
2006/2/3-7 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:41696 Activity:low
2/3     Apple sued based on iPod volume:
        http://tinyurl.com/892c8
        It's lawsuits like this that make our legal system look sue-happy.  I
        find that portable music players in general aren't loud enough and
        occasionally have to use software to increase the volume on my mp3
        files.  Yet these type of suits force manufacturers to lower the
        volume.  I like listening to my music loud, being totally engulfed in
        it.  I know I'm putting my ears at risk, but that's my choice, just
        like it was for this plantiff.  It's common sense.  If I ride my bike
        down a steep hill in SF I could lose control in crash, should the bike
        manufacturer put a warning that gravity could impact my ability to
        control a bike on steep hills?  NONSENSE!
        \_ Uhm, did you ever figure that maybe you need to turn it up so high
           because you have *already* damaged your hearing?
           \_ Yep, and that's ok, it should be my choice. You only live
              once, and if that means enjoying music at a nice loud
              volume, but having to ask people to speak up or repeat things,
              that's ok.  Just because Oreos make me fat doesn't mean they
              should be sued because I choose to eat a row a day, imparing my
              health.
              that's ok.  Just because Oreos make me fat doesn't mean
              Nabisco should be sued because I choose to eat a row a day,
              imparing my health.
              \_ All true but not really what I was getting at.  But I guess
                 if you're willing to spend half your life unable to hear in
                 exchange for loud music today... shrug.  I suspect your 50+
                 year old self will curse your 20-30 year old self when the
                 time comes.  Let us know how that goes.
                 \_ "If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have
                     taken better care of myself."
        \_ It would be interesting to see how much power it puts out of the
           headphone jack compared to an early 80's Walkman.  I suspect it is
           about the same.
           \_ Read the article; it claims most players put out 100db, the
              iPod puts out 115db (except in Europe, where Apple was
              required to limit it to 100db).  -tom
        \_ The 80's guy has a point, walkmans used to be louder, before
           the lawsuit against Sony in the 80's.  That's why all their
           players now have AVLS, which lowers the volume down to a whisper.
           There's actually hacks for some Sony walkmans to unlock the true
           volume potential (http://tinyurl.com/b2ecw
           \_ My Sony CD Walkman from 10yrs ago has a switch to turn off AVLS.
              It has three settings: Off, AVLS 1 (less reduction), AVLS 2 (more
              reduction).
        \_ The earbud headphones are much more likely to damage your ears,
           especially the iPod ones because 1) The speaker is much closer to
           your ear canal and 2) It doesn't block out outside sound as well
           which means people crank it up higher to filter out the world.
        \_ This really is ridiculous.  They have clear notices that cranking
           it up can hurt you.  We don't speed limit cars to 5mph because any
           faster "could hurt or kill you".
           \_ Actually, we do put speed limiters on cars.
              \_ objection, argumentative.
        \_ This reminds me of the McDonald lawsuit which a lady ordered a cup
           of hot coffee, put it between her legs, drove off, spilled, burnt
           herself, and sued because the hot coffee was hot.  I think McD
           should avoid future lawsuits by changin its menu offering:
           Customer: One hot coffee please.
           Cashier:  Hot or cold?
           Customer: Hot coffer please.
           Cashier:  The hot kind of hot coffee or the cold kind of hot coffee?
           Customer: ......
           \_ Stella Liebeck: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
              During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than
              700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992.
              McDonalds ... held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees ...
              Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower
              temperatures. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement treatments,
              sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonalds refused.
              McDonalds asserted that customers buy coffee on their way to
              work or home, intending to consume it there. However, the
              companys own research showed that customers intend to consume
              the coffee immediately while driving.
              For those preferring a biased source:
              http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/1/141345/4615
              \_ Just because the other establishments mislabel their warm
                 coffee as hot coffee, it doesn't mean McD should be required
                 to follow this practice.
                 \_ Now you're just trolling.  If you don't know wth the case
                    was about, do us all a favor.
              \_ If Liebeck thought the coffee was too hot, why was she
                 drinking it while driving?  She wanted to burn her throat and
                 stomach?
                 \_ Well, I'd assume that she didn't know it was 'too hot'
                    until she'd already sustained severe burns.  Your comment
                    suggests that either you didn't read the lectlaw link,
                    or that you missed some rather important details while
                    skimming it.  Perhaps you should, at least, reread the
                    article.
                    \_ Erm who gives a shit?  PP is right, why was she
                       drinking it while driving?  A normal person will take
                       a sip, realize it's too hot, and wait.  -John
                       \_ 1) she wasn't driving.  2) the vehicle wasn't in
                          motion. 3) the coffee was 185F.  Do your homework
                          or STFU.   Or don't.  Whatever's funnier.  *shrug*
                          \_ Actually, reading you get annoyed is pretty
                             funny.  -John
                             \_ Yeahyeah, bite me.   Punk.   :P
                          \_ I have to agree. McD coffee has always been
                             nukingly hot, and takes forever to cool down in
                             its insulated container.  annoying.
        \_ Apple Discontinues Sales To Stupid People:
           http://tinyurl.com/dg9q7
2006/2/2-4 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:41672 Activity:high
2/3     Do people really freak out when seeing bones or seeing a fish head
        when eating?
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/01/FDGMRGTIIG1.DTL
        \_ My sister won't eat meat if there's anything to remind her that the
           meat is from an animal.  But somehow the shape of a chicken breast
           muscle doesn't push that button.. People are weird.
           \_ I am guessing you are not Asian.
              \_ You'd be correct.
              \_ So I'm curious. Do you whities think that we Asians are
                 barbaric?              -asian
                 \_ I'm stunned that you would have to ask.  Of course we do,
                    what with your kancho video games and rice bomb cars and
                    those wacky samurai swords.  Are you gonna try and convince
                    me to eat my dog next?  I hope not, cuz that just ain't
                    happening mah brotha...
                    \_ Riceboys ain't yer brotha, white trash.  -- n***er
                    \_ Riceboy ain't yer brotha, white trash.  -- n***er
              \_ You'd be correct.  But this is beyond "not Asian".  It's a
                 sad dissociation that people want to ignore where food comes
                 from.
           \_ I think all kids should be taken hunting and/or fishing
              when they are young. It eliminates BS pussies like your
              sister and teaches respect for nature. I wanted to take my
              9 year old pussy nephew who doesn't eat meat for similar
              reasons duck hunting and his retard mom (similar to your
              sister) has brainwashed him so much that he won't go. The
              only meat he'll eat is pepperoni on pizza. That's just
              plain wrong and (IMO) unhealthy physically and mentally.
                - not OP
        \_ In Japan there is a kind of sashimi where they take a live fish, cut
           out all the flesh off one side of the fish except the head and the
           tail, leaving the whole head, tail, skeleton, and the other side of
           the body intact.  Then they cut the flesh into sashimi, and put it
           back on the fish body.  They they serve it to the table.  When you
           eat the sashimi, the fish is still not dead yet.  Its mouth and tail
           still moves a little.  I tried it once at a restaurant in the
           still move a little.  I tried it once at a restaurant in the
           Kawasaki area called Bikkuri Sushi.  Interestingly, "bikkuri" means
           "surprise".
              \_ I strongly agree.
              \_ I totally agree. If you are going to be a uncivilized
                 barbarian and eat meat, you should be comfortable killing
                 and eating it like a wild animal.
                 If, on the other hand, you want to be a decent civilized
                 human being, eschew meat altogether and be a vegetarian.
                 \_ You grow all your own food?  You only eat food that grows
                    natively in your region without the use of chemicals?  You
                    don't eat food grown else where and brought in by diesel
                    burning trucks and ships?  And why is it ok to eat plants
                    anyway?  Plants are alive, the same as you and your dog,
                    fluffy.
        \_ In Japan there is a kind of sashimi where they take a live fish,
           cut out all the flesh off one side of the fish except the head and
           the tail, leaving the whole head, tail, skeleton, and the other
           side of the body intact.  Then they cut the flesh into sashimi,
           and put it back on the fish body.  They they serve it to the table.
           When you eat the sashimi, the fish is still not dead yet. Its
           mouth and tail still move a little.  I tried it once at a
           restaurant in the Kawasaki area called Bikkuri Sushi.
           Interestingly, "bikkuri" means "surprise".
           \_ A faimly took me out to a restaurant in Tokushima and served me
              this. It was called "ikizukure"(sp?) ("living, twitching")
              sashimi, there. -- ulysses
              \_ Thanks for the name.  I forgot.  It's either ikizukuri or
                 ikezukuri. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikizukuri Check out
                 the picutre link at the bottom.  When I had it, it's even
                 worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I
                 more worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I
                 had to pick the meat off the skeleton.  -- PP
                 \_ There's a sushi place in Bel Air, CA that serves this.
                    \_ Any in the Bay Area?
                 \_ I find that both disgusting and cool.
                    Photos of the process and result:
                    http://www.oak.dti.ne.jp/~koione/english-ikizukuri.html
                    \_ This just seems gratuitously cruel.
                 the picutre link at the bottom.  When I had it, it's even more
                 worse.  The chef put the meat right on the body, and I had to
                 pick the meat off the skeleton.  -- PP
                       \_ It looks like he bonked it on the head first...
           \_ if you want to guarantee freshness, you have proof.
           \_ Do they do anything with the other half of the fish, or does
              that just go to waste?
              \_ After finishing the sashimi, the customer has the option to
                 have the other half cooked into something else.  I had soup
                 cooked from it.  -- PP
        \_ There's this scene in Oldboy where the guy eats a whole live
           octopus, which wriggles all the way down.  This definitely rules.
        \_ I'm fine with fish & meat and the way it's caught and butchered,
           but I really don't need to see it on my plate, staring at me. -John
2005/9/21-23 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:39792 Activity:low
9/21    Why is the Chinese black egg black? Is it safe to eat? What chemical
        compound made it black? It looks like lead, but it's yummy.
        \_ You mean thousand year old egg? I think that's duck egg preserved
           in tea.
           \_ It's funny that the thousand year old egg was featured in Fear
              Factor.  When I saw that episode, I'm like "I'll eat it without
              a prize."
        \_ Koreans sometimes soak hard boiled eggs in watered down soy
           sause.  They turn brown.  Those are pretty tasty too.
           \_ The Japanese do something similar for oden. Cf. the egg in
              vinegar science trick. (The egg in oden is not as rubbery...)
        \_ Let me tell you something *REALLY* scary... *TRADITIONALLY* those
           'thousand year old egg' was made by marinating the egg in
           *HORSE PISS*.  No, I am not kidding.  We don't do it in horse
           piss anymore, if you are really interested in this, I can find out.
           It bothers me that how my ancestors one day came up with this idea
           "let me soak egg in this and see how's taste..."
           \_ Well it's not as bad as the famous Shit Eating German porn.
           \_ I have a guess as to why urine was pissed. A disgruntled
              chef in the Dynasty thought it'd be funny to serve the
              emperor egg that is dipped in urine. It turns out the
              emperor liked it so much that it's an official dish.
              Uh, seriously though, that's just an urban legend. Black
              eggs are black because of charcoal, tea, and other things.
              http://ask.yahoo.com/20011114.html <-- see?
           \_ Like how we grow mushrooms on cold horse shit?
           \_ No way, you're shitting me!!!
           \_ MOVE OVER GERMANY!!!!1!!
              \_ Nothing beats your Shit Eating German porn. How the hell
                 did you guys come up with that stuff. It is just sick.
           \_ I hate to sound like a freak, but piss in general has a lot of
              really useful properties (all that ammonia, etc.). Pre-Industrial
              really useful properties (all that urea, etc.). Pre-Industrial
              folks had a lot of uses for it, including medicine and laundry.
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine
2005/9/9-11 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:39598 Activity:nil
9/9     http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050909/od_nm/germany_beer_dc
        The world's strongest beer. VAT IST IT BOUT ZIE GERMANS??
        \_ Another high bar for those Floridians.
2005/8/16-17 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:39135 Activity:high
8/16    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/hispanics_immigration
        "A majority of Hispanics born in the United States don't think illegal
        Hispanic immigrants should be given drivers' licenses, according to a
        new poll."
        \_ C'mon, folks, it's a sting operation.
           \_ That would be kinda funny.  "Here's you driver's licence
              sir, and here's your border patrol officer."
              \_ Seriously, you don't see this happening?
                 \_ In a word, no.
        \_ You don't need borders!  How Cold War!  Become a Citizen of the
           World!  Get your Global Work Permit!  Travel!  See the sights!
           When there are no more borders, there will be no more war!  Hey,
           what is the EU policy on non-EU people trotting about?  How about
           Switzerland?
           \_ We have a treaty with the EU to allow bilateral work permits
              very easily.  The overprotected, overpriced, mollycoddled Swiss
              markets could use it (just like the overprotected, &c &c US, Jap
              and EU markets could use some competition) as we're seeing an
              insane amount of super-qualified people coming in from Germany
              and Austria who are fleeing statist ham-handedness there, and
              really raising the quality bar here.  And although the EU
              is a bureaucratic shitpile, its very existence is sure motivating
              the Poles/Czechs/Balts and friends into becoming lean, fast-
              growing economies.  Global economics is not a zero-sum game, to
              be ruined by protectionist tax-horny command-economy government
              hacks.  May I suggest a cabin in Montana?  -John
              \- I am for sure going to have fun watching "libertarian" geeks
                 sort themelves out into various flavors under the pressure
                 of globalization. i wonder if there will be an attempt to
                 vincent chin somebody in a pathetic geek way.
                 \_ Partha once went on record as saying libertarians are
                    libertarian because this allows them to excuse the way
                    they naturally feel, or something like that.  I am sort of
                    they naturally feel, or something like that.  I was sort of
                    idly wondering if John is going to show up one day and
                    accuse Partha of overgeneralizing and 'wrongthink,' but
                    then I realized it's only chic to do that to me. -- ilyas
                 \_ Dey took ur' jerbs!!
                 \_ We'll just take our families and go start american food
                    restaurants in Calcutta.  That'll show 'em.  -JOhn
                    \_ Genuinely curious... Do they sell Garden Burgers in
                       India?
                       \- no, in india it is easy to find vegetarian food
                          that actually tastes good. you dont have newly minted
                          vegetarians who "miss" the hamburger experience.
                          and burgers are generally mutton or chicken if
                          memory serves. serving beef in a high profile way
                          [like if you are mcd] is just asking for trouble.
                          \_ Spoken like someone who's never tried a really
                             good veggie patty.  I am not a vegetarian, and
                             I appreciate a good beefburger, but there is
                             such a thing as a really tasty veggie burger.
                             \- when i go to india, kolkata in particular,
                                i basically become a vegetarian because the
                                vegetarian food is better than about every-
                                thing else and cheaper too. so while i dont
                                typcally eat vegetarian burgers here, on
                                statistical grounds this is pretty defensible.
                                many of the vegetables here are really
                                expensive or bland, especially tomatos.
                                in much of india since you buy fresh vegetables
                                at the market every day, they may look funky
                                but they are vastly better than about any
                                non-chez panisse level vegetables here.
                                i think a better comparison is something
                                like say flan ... flan will not take off
                                in india anytime soon because there is nothing
                                to cause the flan market to go through
                                a "hyper inflation" phase. it's not a matter
                                of whether flan is good or bad ... it's not
                                enough better than domestic sweets. pizza
                                on the other hand is an innovation that is
                                taking off because of marketing and novelty.
                                in spite of the pizza being bad. so yes if
                                for some reason a company making really
                                tasty veggie burgers dumps millions of
                                dollars into mkting, then maybe they will
                                taken off, but that's not going to happen.
                                \_ I have a colleague originally from around
                                   about Hyderabad who went to the Bombay
                                   Inst of Tech. He complained (at length)
                                   about American hamburgers. His reasoning was
                                   the home of the hamburger (his idea, not
                                   mine) should have a huge variety of meat and
                                   non-meat hamburgers available. This because
                                   he bragged about the huge variety of
                                   specifically non-meat burgers available in
                                   (I presume) Bombay and Hyderabad. He
                                   also, IIRC, said meat hamburgers were
                                   uncommmon. That said, he may simply have
                                   been whinging since he was dealing with some
                                   pretty bad culture shock at the time.
                                    -- ulysses
                                   \_ There is a huge variety of meat and
                                      non-meat burgers available here in
                                      the USA.
                                      \_ Yup. One place has Ostrich burgers
                                         I think. Forgot the name.
                                         \_ Fuddrucker's does. It's also
                                            common to see turkey, buffalo,
                                            salmon, and many varieties of
                                            soy/veggie burgers.
                                      \_ There's also an awesome place on the
                                         main square in Sonoma that does a
                                         duck burger with foie gras.  It's
                                         really good.  -John
                                         \- well i think those still dont count
                                            as "common". mcd, bk, carls jr,
                                            wendys etc are mostly beef, some
                                            chicken options, one fish item,
                                            but no lamb, mutton, goat, turkey,
                                            pork [maybe turkey] etc. contrast
                                            to say a typical mexican facility
                                            with al pastor, carne asada,
                                            ground beef, chortizo, carnitas,
                                            tongue etc. same for a deli ...
                                            lots of options compared to a
                                            typical hamburger facility. --psb
                                            \_ Look in a Wal-Mart for what the
                                               "common" American eats. The
                                               places you mentioned have about
                                               as much food value as Viet Cong
                                               sandals cut from truck tires.
                                               As for Indian food, didn't the
                                               head of Congress' youth wing
                                               once chop up his gf and hide her
                                               in a tandoori oven?  Mmh!  -John
                                               \_ The discussion was about
                                                  common hamburger options,
                                                  not what is healthy or
                                                  common to eat.
                                                  \_ Yes, and the options
                                                     meantioned were of Viet
                                                     Cong truck tire sandal
                                                     food value, allowing for
                                                     crack about average
                                                     Americans' dining habits,
                                                     Wal-Mart and tandoori
                                                     dismemberment.  Capisce?
                                            \_ Almost every fast food
                                               joint offers a chicken
                                               sandwich/burger. Jack in
                                               the Box had the Turkey
                                               Jack. Once you stray from
                                               the big chains, though, you
                                               easily find the rest. Turkey
                                               burgers are especially easy
                                               to find, as are veggie burgers.
                                               Even the big chains have had
                                               veggie burgers at various
                                               times. I think some still do.
                                            \- BTW, one reason traditional
                                               burgers and pizza in india
                                               are ass is because you cannot
                                               get good "cheej". i dunno if
                                               you will "get" this if you dont
                                               know india, but i thought this
                                               was both hilarious & insightful
                                               in the horrible VS Naipaul way:
                                               http://csua.org/u/d26
                                               [you have to click fwd to the
                                               first page of text]. you may
                                               also wish to see:
                                               http://csua.org/u/d27
                                               for more fun with Sir Vidia.
                                      \_ There is lots of good vegetables
                                      \_ There are lots of good vegetables
                                         at reasonable prices here. You
                                         just have to go to Farmer's markets,
                                         like the one at the Civic Center in
                                         San Francisco. Organic produce from
                                         Whole Foods is also quite good, but
                                         pricey. -ausman
2005/7/24-28 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:38799 Activity:nil
7/24    foodP! 7pm Fondue Freds, Wednesday 7/27
        come one, come all
        \_ use evite.
        \_ how much is it? I'm poor...
           \_ The idea is to take advantage of their 6+ person deal, which
              comes out to basically $20/person.  Definitely more expensive
              than say a TopDog, but it is an all-you-can-eat deal for fondue
              and their house wine.
              The CSUA used to have regular FoodP's, a tradition that has
              (sadly) apparently died.  -ERic
        \_ Who is going? Alumni or students? I'm a poor student, can you
           rich wealthy land-owning alumni buy me food? I promise to
           entertain you guys with new Soda Hell stories. Are there going
           to be hot women? Is karen going?
           \_ Are there going to be stalkers attending?
              \_ Why?  You lose yours?
           \_ CSUA w/ booth babes. Now there's a concept.
        \_ I had fondue once and hated it. Maybe it was the particular
           cheese? Or is it usually the same type? It was also expensive for
           what it is and the skill involved. I think I'd love a chocolate
           fondue though.
           \_ There are many variations, but a typical cheese fondue will
              contain some of swiss, gruyere and ementhaler cheeses, plus dry
              white wine, and often some garlic, or lemon juice, or kirch.
              Personally I love gruyere, but some people hate it.
           \_ A crappy fondue has too much starch, low quality wine, shitty
              cheese, cat intestines, whatever in it.  -John the Fondue Expert
        \_ I like Fondue Fred's.  And their house wine is excellent after the
           third glass or so.  I'd go if I was in the bay area.  -niloc
2005/7/13-14 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:38595 Activity:nil
7/13    Coffee shop opens in Utah without coffee, cigarettes, or alcohols
        because Mormons can't touch them:
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162317,00.html
        \_ I'd say that's totally gay, but Mormons don't like that either.
        \_ Well, sell to your customers.  It's not hard to get coffee and
           alcohol in Utah if you want them.
2005/6/8-9 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:38030 Activity:nil
6/7     Has anybody been to Cafe Jacqueline in SF? Is it a reasonable
        first date restaurant or is it a little over the top for a 1D?
        Also does the menu work with 2 people or best with more? OK TNX.
        \_ It's reasonable.  But it's pretty expensive.  It is best for
           2 people since some souffles are two-person serving.  I ended
           up paying over $60 per person for two meal souffles and one
           dessert souffle (no wine, no appetizers).  I didn't think it
           was worth the price.  The restaurant itself didn't look fancy,
           but something too fancy could be intimidating for a 1st date.
2005/5/3-4 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:37494 Activity:nil
5/3     http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7720569/?GT1=6542
        big burger war
2005/4/8-10 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:37124 Activity:moderate
4/8     Which is best?  Suppenkuche, Walzwerk, or Schnitzelhaus?
              \-Der Wienerschnitzel on San Pablo.
        \_ Are all three in SF?  Speisekammer in Alameda is also decent.
           Only been to Suppenkuche and Speisekammer, both were quite
           good (but Suppenkuche was superior, I though)
           \_ Enlighten us mere mortals: WTF are you talking about ?
              \_ German restaurants.
           \_ Huh, it seems Spieskammer is owned by a half-owner of
              Suppenkuche.
        \_ I've never been to a German restaurant, what is it like? The
           closest I've ever gotten is Top-Dog where I eat semi-Germananic
           frank. Yes, it's pathetic. What exactly do you get at German
           restaurants besides frank and lager? Do you get to see hot robust
           German blond waitresses with thick Bulvarian accent?
           \_ Der Wienerschnitzel, for one.  Also potato pancakes and hearty
              dark German lagers that are nothing like American lagers.
              \- you can get your meat stuffed with meat at Suppenkuche
                 \_ Is that homosexual code?
                    \- du bist eine hasa
                       \_ Ach, mein Leben!  -John
                          \_ Der Worte sind genug gewechselt,
                             lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!
           \_ there are regional variants, i.e. fish from the coastal
              areas and wimpy bland sausage from the alps, but classics
              found in the u.s. include roulade (meat or cabbage rolls
              w/ meaty stuffing), hot potato salad, and sauerbraten
              (roast beef marinated for many days in wine vinegar).
              of course many sausages, cabbage variants, soups,
              and chunks of fatty roated meat.  all go well w/ beer.
2005/4/5-8 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:37078 Activity:moderate
4/5     Any recommendations for an SF restaurant that can accomodate
        25-30, at $30-$40/person. Note: in my experience big dinners
        tend to come in 20-30% more expensive than smaller dinners
        [i.e. a $30/person rest comes in at $40 when you have
        20-30 people ordering glasses/bottles of wine or appetizers
        right and left, or taking advantage of a split check]. Tnx.
        \_ Check the Blue Plate or Chenery Park and ask if you can just rent
           the place.  They're very nice people.  -John
        \_ how about Jillian's, i'm sure enough alcohol can get you
           up to $30 per.
        \_ Just about any decent sized place in Chinatown will do this.
           The Slanted Door has a room for 24. Might be a bit out
           of your price range. -ausman
        \_ Check out Delancey Street Restaurant (600 Embarcadero at Brannan)
           it's pretty good, plus they do cheap ($4) valet parking if people
           are coming by car. -dans
           \- Hmm, this may be a good option on a non-baseball night.
              I guess I'll havve to stop in and try the food. ok tnx.
              I guess I'll havve to stop in and try the food.
              SD, BP, CP are all more expensive. this is just for a dinner
              with friends so i dont really want to or feel the need to
              rent an exclusive venue. i think metreon probably has to much
              of a rifraff factor on a fri/sat night. ok tnx.
              \_ What is wrong with Chinatown? Do I need to give you
                 a specific restaurant name? -ausman
           \_ I like the food there a lot, and it's for a good cause.
        \_ one of my favorites while I lived in the Bay Area was Eos.
2005/3/31-4/1 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:37002 Activity:high
3/31    So I heard this 'rumor' from someone that a bunch of Hispanic
        people ate at a Chinese restaurant, and decided to make a run
        for it and not pay. The restaurant stopped the last person and
        called the police, but the police fined the restaurant and let
        the person go because the restaurant does not have authority
        to detain anyone. Does this sound right to you guys or am I
        missing something here? What should the restaurant do? This
        supposedly happened in Chicago recently.
                   \_ Bah.  They're buying too many houses anyway.  They
                      deserve to be dined-and-ditched.
                   \- The restaurant may be in the wrong, but that doesnt
                      mean the dine-n-dasher gets off scott free. Both
                      parties can be guilty/liable for different things.--psb
                      \_ So what's the proper course of action for
                         for the restaurant? Is this different from
                         shoplifting?
                         \- There is probably both a civil and criminal
                            claim they could persue. I dont know what they
                            should do. This is one of those stories where
                            you probably hear a bunch of upfront stuff
                            that gets people outraged but you never hear the
                            followup [like the $20million jury award which
                            ends up being whittled down to $1.2m]. --psb
                      \_ can't you citizens arrest them?
                         \_ This largely depends on local statutes
                            and the circumstances. Generally, skipping
                            out on your bill is a petty larceny (unless
                            you're a dining at the Ritz). A private party
                            generally does not have the right to restrain
                            someone they suspect of this low level of
                            crime. If this person was detained against
                            their will and that detention was wrongful,
                            the detained party has a false imprisonment
                            or false arrest claim to which there is no
                            defense.
                            The restaurant's best bet for recovery is
                            in small claims ct under a breach of contract
                            theory.
                                \- dont you think if you were in the shoes
                                   of the restaurant you would be more
                                   interested in the dasher beinf punished
                                   than getting your $30. if the da office
                                   will take it [broken window theory], that's
                                   what i would do. --psb
                                   \_ I agree that I would prefer a
                                      criminal conviction, but a DA will
                                      probably not take the case b/c
                                      he has no interest in wasting a
                                      bunch of time to get a conviction
                                      or plea bargain for a crime that
                                      carries w/ it a max penalty of
                                      $500 or so.
                                      It would be much easier to show
                                      up in Small Claims w/ the bill
                                      and the name of the dude you
                                      detained and ask for damages for
                                      breach of contract. This would
                                      be a 15 min deal.
                                      \- yes but then you have to rely
                                         on the sheriff or whoever to
                                         enforce the $30 collection.
                                         i doubt these people really care
                                         about having a judgement against
                                         them. maybe if something like that
                                         can affect their credit it would
                                         be worth it. in the economic pale
                                         this is a non-starter. i assume
                                         DAs offices spend some amount of
                                         resources on "broken window" crimes,
                                         and if this becomes high profile
                                         [i.e. race card] that could work
                                         in your favor or against [vandalism
                                         to your restaurant]. --psb
                            \_ Hmmm.. Interesting. My question
                               remains, how is this different from
                               shoplifting? You mean the store cannot
                               stop me from walking out with their
                               merchandise without paying too? I don't
                               think that's the case but I don't see
                               the difference here.
                               \_ Generally, in order for a merchant to
                                  detain a person suspected of a crime,
                                  the crime must have been committed in
                                  their immediate presence (watching a
                                  crime on video counts). If the crime
                                  is not witnessed by the merchant,
                                  then they can still detain you but
                                  they risk a false arrest/imprisonment
                                  suit.
                                  As an example, say that you go to Fry's
                                  and you pick up a copy of Chaos Theory
                                  put it in your backpack and try to
                                  walk out the front door. Unless they
                                  saw it all on video or a clerk saw
                                  you give yourself the 5 finger
                                  discount, the highlighter dude can't
                                  stop you from walking out of the
                                  store w/o risking a possible false
                                  arrest suit.
                                  \_ So you're telling me that there's no
                                     legal basis for all detainments made
                                     by store detectives for shoplifting? I
                                     know there was some discussion about this
                                     2-3 years back.  -John
                                  \_ Thanks! I am gonna try that with a
                                     PSP, isn't this country great! ;)
                                     \_ Yup, this country is great for
                                        lawyers.
                                     \_ Before you do this, please
                                        realize that if they choose
                                        to detain you, they might
                                        call the cops who can
                                        arrest you for real. You
                                        would not have an action
                                        against the cops b/c they
                                        acted under probable cause.
                                        Note that the cops could
                                        probably arrest you even
                                        if you had proof (ie a
                                        receipt) that no crime was
                                        committed b/c it is not
                                        the cops job to judge
                                        the proof.
                                        BTW does the PSP cost more
                                        than $500? If so, suspicion
                                        of swiping one would be a
                                        Grand Larceny and you don't
                                        want to go there.
                                        \_ Yes and no.  Police (in CA) aren't
                                           empowered to arrest you for a
                                           misdemeanor crime that they didn't
                                           witness taking place.  On the other
                                           hand, if a citizen wishes to make
                                           a citizen's arrest, they can sign
                                           the 'citizen's arrest' form that the
                                           peace officer has in his car.  Of
                                           course, if it turns out that the
                                           accusation is false (and therefore a
                                           false arrest) ALL the liability
                                           falls on the person that signed the
                                           form.  If the cop is a good one,
                                           he'll warn you if he thinks you're
                                           making a mistake.  So, be wary of
                                           detaining someone, then signing
                                           them into custody on the basis of a
                                           citizen's arrest form -- if you
                                           can't prove your case, you could
                                           lose your shirt.        -POC
                                           \- look the law is more likely to
                                              work in the case of serious
                                              offenses and against people
                                              \_ serious offenses?  like, say,
                                                 felonies?  felony !=
                                                 misdemeanor.
                                              who are not "judgement proof"...
                                              either because they have money,
                                              they have informal or formal
                                              reputations etc. this is even
                                              more the case with "de minimus"
                                              one shot economic stuff. what
                                              ever happened with sloda'
                                              LA vigilante who went after
                                              the bus driver or whatever it
                                              was. --psb
                                              \_ reread, please.  Police can
                                                 make an arrest for possible
                                                 felonies without being there
                                                 to witness the crime.  it's
                                                 not very complicated.  -POC
                                                 \- i'm talking about
                                                    pratical outcomes, not
                                                    what is theoretically
                                                    possible. after my car
                                                    was stolen the people
                                                    who stole it left a
                                                    time stamped receipt
                                                    for a jack in the box
                                                    drive thru where i am
                                                    sure they have a video
                                                    camera. i am also sure
                                                    the police have no interest
                                                    in pursuing this one i
                                                    got my car back. the above
                                                    was (clearly i thought)
                                                    a general comment on
                                                    minor minor crimes
                                                    [broken window]. --psb
        \_ I'm sure BUD DAY has the authority to detain those damn dirty
           wetback spics.
        \_ Are you Chinese? Do you have any of idea of the effect of
           Chinese food on Hispanics?
        \_ Remember those Korean guys with rifles on top of the grocery
           stores during the Rodney King riots, when it turned out that the
           protection rackets would actually have to provide protection for
           real?  Other alternative is to bring their food into line with
           mediocre Chinese food in a lot of places and make the remaining
           check-skippers regret they ever ate there in the first place.  The
           regular college crowd will keep coming regardless, all that cold
           pizza and stale beer makes you immune to whatever ChiCom biological
           warfare agents they put in that shit.  -John
           \_ it's just MSG.
        \_ Walgreens often encourages their managers to run shoplifters down
           with their cars in the parking lot, and to engage them in highspeed
           chase if they get away.  dumb? yes. Illegal? almost certainly.  But
           I know a manager who was yelled at for *not* engaging in a car chase
           after a shoplifter.
                   \_ Bah.  They're buying too many houses anyway.  They
                      deserve to be dined-and-ditched.
                   \- The restaurant may be in the wrong, but that doesnt
                      mean the dine-n-dasher gets off scott free. Both
                      parties can be guilty/liable for different things.--psb
                      \_ So what's the proper course of action for
                         for the restaurant? Is this different from
                         shoplifting?
                         \- There is probably both a civil and criminal
                            claim they could persue. I dont know what they
                            should do. This is one of those stories where
                            you probably hear a bunch of upfront stuff
                            that gets people outraged but you never hear the
                            followup [like the $20million jury award which
                            ends up being whittled down to $1.2m]. --psb
                      \_ can't you citizens arrest them?
                         \_ This largely depends on local statutes
                            and the circumstances. Generally, skipping
                            out on your bill is a petty larceny (unless
                            you're a dining at the Ritz). A private party
                            generally does not have the right to restrain
                            someone they suspect of this low level of
                            crime. If this person was detained against
                            their will and that detention was wrongful,
                            the detained party has a false imprisonment
                            or false arrest claim to which there is no
                            defense.
                            The restaurant's best bet for recovery is
                            in small claims ct under a breach of contract
                            theory.
                                \- dont you think if you were in the shoes
                                   of the restaurant you would be more
                                   interested in the dasher beinf punished
                                   than getting your $30. if the da office
                                   will take it [broken window theory], that's
                                   what i would do. --psb
                                   \_ I agree that I would prefer a
                                      criminal conviction, but a DA will
                                      probably not take the case b/c
                                      he has no interest in wasting a
                                      bunch of time to get a conviction
                                      or plea bargain for a crime that
                                      carries w/ it a max penalty of
                                      $500 or so.
                                      It would be much easier to show
                                      up in Small Claims w/ the bill
                                      and the name of the dude you
                                      detained and ask for damages for
                                      breach of contract. This would
                                      be a 15 min deal.
                                      \- yes but then you have to rely
                                         on the sheriff or whoever to
                                         enforce the $30 collection.
                                         i doubt these people really care
                                         about having a judgement against
                                         them. maybe if something like that
                                         can affect their credit it would
                                         be worth it. in the economic pale
                                         this is a non-starter. i assume
                                         DAs offices spend some amount of
                                         resources on "broken window" crimes,
                                         and if this becomes high profile
                                         [i.e. race card] that could work
                                         in your favor or against [vandalism
                                         to your restaurant]. --psb
                            \_ Hmmm.. Interesting. My question
                               remains, how is this different from
                               shoplifting? You mean the store cannot
                               stop me from walking out with their
                               merchandise without paying too? I don't
                               think that's the case but I don't see
                               the difference here.
                               \_ Generally, in order for a merchant to
                                  detain a person suspected of a crime,
                                  the crime must have been committed in
                                  their immediate presence (watching a
                                  crime on video counts). If the crime
                                  is not witnessed by the merchant,
                                  then they can still detain you but
                                  they risk a false arrest/imprisonment
                                  suit.
                                  As an example, say that you go to Fry's
                                  and you pick up a copy of Chaos Theory
                                  put it in your backpack and try to
                                  walk out the front door. Unless they
                                  saw it all on video or a clerk saw
                                  you give yourself the 5 finger
                                  discount, the highlighter dude can't
                                  stop you from walking out of the
                                  store w/o risking a possible false
                                  arrest suit.
                                  \_ So you're telling me that there's no
                                     legal basis for all detainments made
                                     by store detectives for shoplifting? I
                                     know there was some discussion about this
                                     2-3 years back.  -John
                                     \_ If the Store Detectives did not
                                        witness the shoplifting, then
                                        the detention was probably not
                                        valid. However, there are some
                                        conditions under which there
                                        might not have been any detention.
                                        If the detective tells you to
                                        stop you don't have to comply.
                                        If he physically bars you from
                                        leaving the store it can be a
                                        false imprisonment. If he says
                                        he is going to call the cops
                                        if you leave, then that can
                                        also be false imprisonment.
                                        But if you can leave at any
                                        time and you remain to clear
                                        your name, then it is not
                                        false imprisonment.
                                        Also it can make a difference
                                        if you are suspected of a
                                        felony (grand larceny) vs
                                        a misdemeanor (petty larceny).
                                  \_ Thanks! I am gonna try that with a
                                     PSP, isn't this country great! ;)
                                     \_ Yup, this country is great for
                                        lawyers.
                                     \_ Before you do this, please
                                        realize that if they choose
                                        to detain you, they might
                                        call the cops who can
                                        arrest you for real. You
                                        would not have an action
                                        against the cops b/c they
                                        acted under probable cause.
                                        Note that the cops could
                                        probably arrest you even
                                        if you had proof (ie a
                                        receipt) that no crime was
                                        committed b/c it is not
                                        the cops job to judge
                                        the proof.
                                        BTW does the PSP cost more
                                        than $500? If so, suspicion
                                        of swiping one would be a
                                        Grand Larceny and you don't
                                        want to go there.
                                        \_ Yes and no.  Police (in CA) aren't
                                           empowered to arrest you for a
                                           misdemeanor crime that they didn't
                                           witness taking place.  On the other
                                           hand, if a citizen wishes to make
                                           a citizen's arrest, they can sign
                                           the 'citizen's arrest' form that the
                                           peace officer has in his car.  Of
                                           course, if it turns out that the
                                           accusation is false (and therefore a
                                           false arrest) ALL the liability
                                           falls on the person that signed the
                                           form.  If the cop is a good one,
                                           he'll warn you if he thinks you're
                                           making a mistake.  So, be wary of
                                           detaining someone, then signing
                                           them into custody on the basis of a
                                           citizen's arrest form -- if you
                                           can't prove your case, you could
                                           lose your shirt.        -POC
                                           \- look the law is more likely to
                                              work in the case of serious
                                              offenses and against people
                                              \_ serious offenses?  like, say,
                                                 felonies?  felony !=
                                                 misdemeanor.
                                              who are not "judgement proof"...
                                              either because they have money,
                                              they have informal or formal
                                              reputations etc. this is even
                                              more the case with "de minimus"
                                              one shot economic stuff. what
                                              ever happened with sloda'
                                              LA vigilante who went after
                                              the bus driver or whatever it
                                              was. --psb
                                              \_ reread, please.  Police can
                                                 make an arrest for possible
                                                 felonies without being there
                                                 to witness the crime.  it's
                                                 not very complicated.  -POC
                                                 \- i'm talking about
                                                    pratical outcomes, not
                                                    what is theoretically
                                                    possible. after my car
                                                    was stolen the people
                                                    who stole it left a
                                                    time stamped receipt
                                                    for a jack in the box
                                                    drive thru where i am
                                                    sure they have a video
                                                    camera. i am also sure
                                                    the police have no interest
                                                    in pursuing this one i
                                                    got my car back. the above
                                                    was (clearly i thought)
                                                    a general comment on
                                                    minor minor crimes
                                                    [broken window]. --psb
2005/3/11-12 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:36648 Activity:low
3/11    What is the biggest, cleanest, nicest Korean market in the 415/510
        area?
        \_ The only good Korean Market that I know of near Berkeley is the
           Koreana Plaza on Telegraph in Oakland.  Just head south on
           telegraph to around 45th or something.  It's on the left.
           http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2005-03-02/food.html
           -jrleek
           \_ Second that. There's a hole-in-the-wall in El Cerrito but
              Koreana (formerly Pusan) is pretty much it. They have all their
              banchan boxed up, now, too, if you're squeamish. --ulysses
              banchan boxed up, now, if you're squeamish. I have
              opinions on their bulgoki, too. --ulysses
              \_ The best thing of all, which I found out recently, is that
                 they're open 24 hours now.  There's a Korean market in
                 SF/Daly City area off of John Daly blvd that looks pretty
                 big, but I haven't been inside.
                 \_ I like how they have guys who flag the drivers around the
                    parking lot as if the shoppers were landing 747s.
2005/3/3-4 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:36503 Activity:high
3/3     Steve Albini discusses food.
        http://www.gourmandizer.com/ezine/albini
        \_ Who is Steve Albini?
           \_ the subject of the best Wesley Willis song ever
           \_ Lead singer of Big Black (awesome band from Chicago, late 80's).
              Graduated from singing to being a producer. Cool fr00d.
              \_ I think you meant to say "really hoopy frood"
              \_ He also currently has an on-again, off-again band called
                 Shellac.  Highly recommended.
        \_ "Here is a recipe anyone can use to make a wonderful Sauce
            Mayonnaise: ..."  That's soo cool.  I'm gonna try that.
            \_ I tried this recipe a while back... It wasn't bad but
               is real mayonnaise supposed to taste like that?
               I'm afraid I've been spoiled by Kraft.
               \_ What did it taste like? Cream? A cross between Hollandaise
                  and cream(ie. texture and richness of hollandaise, w/o the
                  distinctive flavor?).
                  \_ Sorry, I'm sauce-illiterate wrt Hollandaise.
                     Texture was smoother than Kraft, flavor is dominated
                     by garlic/olive oil/lemon juice. i.e., I could identify
                     the component ingredients whereas with mayo, there's some
                     alchemy going on -- preservatives probably?
                     \_ You do realize that Best Foods/Hellman's is a more
                        authentic mayo than Kraft is, don't you?
2005/2/23 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:36374 Activity:high
2/23    Holy shit, this Sierra Nevada Bigfoot ale is strong.
        \_ It's classified as a 'barleywine'.  There are better and stronger.
        \_ If you like barley wine, check out Stone's 2005 Old Guardian Ale
           (it was available in Berkeley Bowl a couple of weeks ago but
            given that it's a seasonal ale, it might not be available any
            more..)
            \_ I didn't know it existed. I thought it was just another beer
               but after my head was swimming a bit after only half a bottle
               I read the 9.6% alcohol on the label. The taste took getting
               used to also. A pretty serious beer. Bigfoot is seasonal too
               but apparently that season is now. I'll have to try some others.
               \_ By the way, barley wine is one of the few types of beer
                  that can be stored for aging and drinking later. I heard
                  people say that SN Bigfoot is specially good once you age
                  it a bit (but I don't remember for how long, check
                  http://ratebeer.com if curious).
2004/12/21-22 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:35386 Activity:moderate
12/21   Dating advice for the week: DO NOT eat Edamame beans at the Japanese
        restaurant! I had so much gas I farted several times. I don't think
        I'm gonna see her again. ARGGGGG.
        \_ You should learn the art of holding it.
           \_ Or the art of letting it out silently.
        \_ say "Please excuse me, I have to go to the Men's room"
        \_ HAHA, that's hilarious. thanks for the advice, too!
        \_ A likely story.  It takes hours for farts to develop from eating soybeans.
           You're probably just flatulent in general.
           \_ He may be flatulent but you can't format properly. The penalty is
              death! 80 columns!
        \_ When I was in Japan, we ate edamame frequently, but only when
           out drinking beer. They were the standard bar with-beer snack. I
           think that the US appropriation as restaurant food is interesting.
           Maybe you've discovered why they aren't restaurant food in Japan.
           <snicker>
2004/12/4-5 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:35174 Activity:insanely high
12/4    Interested in killing time in Napa wine country to do some wine
        tasting. Can someone recommend a good winery there? Thanks.
        \_ Go to Sonoma.  The Napa wine places are touristy dumps.  Paying to
           taste wine is a nazi war crime.  -John
           \_ We don't all have wineries pouring tastes of free
              trockenberenauslese in our backyard.
           \_ Doesn't wine cost money to make? It would make sense for
              people to pay something to taste it, wouldn't it?
              \_ It doesn't cost that much to make, but if there's a
                 market for it then the winery is losing the revenue they
                 could have had by selling it.
              \_ Ask yourself the same question about web browsers.
              \_ Ask yourself the same question about sampling ice cream at an ice
                 cream parlor.
              \_ Civilized societies realize that wine tasting is a
                 prerequisite to getting you to buy wine.  It is an investment
                 a vineyard makes as a kind of risk.  You may try x kinds of
                 wine before you like one enough to buy a couple of bottles
                 of it.  Imagine if dealerships charged you to test drive cars
                 or if you had to pay a buck every time you tried on a piece
                 of clothing... the whole "pay to taste" abomination comes
                 from changing wine tasting from a part of wine buying into
                 some sort weird-ass activity all by itself.  It is about as
                 king lame as it gets.  YMMV.  -John
                 \_ Mmhmm. And all the places I buy food at let me taste
                    before I buy too. By the way, your analogies are false
                    because wine is consumable and cars and clothing are
                    at least semi-durable.
                    \_ I don't know how it works in the US, but showroom
                       cars here (the ones they use for test driving) are
                       usually sold every year here at a decent knock-off.
                       Furthermore, when I buy food, I either know what it
                       tastes like or don't care about the couple of bucks
                       I'd lose on it.  Compare that to the ~$2k my gf and
                       I spend on wine every year--the guys we buy from know
                       that the loss from opening some bottles (which they can
                       then keep as samples for 2-3 days with good stoppers)
                       is less than the cost of losing my custom if they were
                       dicks about letting me taste it.  That said, I can see
                       why the Napa guys charge, now that it's a tourist
                       activity.  -John
                    \_ Moron, most grocery stores *do* have free samples
                       to taste when they get new stuff.
                       \_ No, they don't. But granted, food stores do
                          generally have a much larger product selection
                          than vineyards, so it would be logistically more
                          difficult.
                          \_ Foodstuffs of a given brand/type tend to have a
                             more consistent flavor & quality.  And good food
                             stores very often do let you try out new items
                             or perishables.  -John
                 \_ Napa wineries used to have free tasting but the change
                    is based (IMO) both on milking tourism AND the fact that
                    freeloader winetasting tours became too popular in
                    the Bay Area.  Yes, it sucks.  I blame people.
                    \_ I know a life of crime led me to this sorry fate...
                       but I blame society.  Society made me what I am.
        \_ There are lots of great wineries in both Napa and Sonoma. Yes,
           you will have to pay at some. Wineries cannot pour $120 bottles
           of wine to drunk tourists all day long for free. Usually you
           can taste free if you are a serious drinker (e.g. make an
           appointment or sometimes ask the right questions while tasting
           and they will waive the fee). You should ask yourself if you
           want an 'experience' or if you want great wine. The two are
           often, but not always, exclusive. A good start would be for you
           to name some wines/wineries that you like or are familiar with.
           \_ I really don't know much about wines. I'm doing this to
              learn more about it. It's kind of like the Lonely Planet vs.
              Rick Steves approach to traveling. Lonely Planet is more of
              a reference guide where if you've been the Europe before,
              it would help you whereas Rick Steves simply plans everything
              out for you assuming you know nothing. Everything I've found
              on the Internet has resembled the Lonely Planet approach.
              I guess I need something more dumbed down. I'm interested
              more in the "experience" but would rather drink decent wines.
              \_ Instead of the internet, check out some good books. At the
                 SF main library, many years ago, I found this incredibly
                 helpful book (it was kinda old even then) and it explained
                 about the names of the grapes, the types of woods used in
                 the barrels, etc. Actually, you could probably find out more
                 just by talking to the people pouring the wine at the
                 tastings (especially the older ppl).
              \_ Why bother, it all tastes like crap anyway. It's all just
                 foo-foo bullshit that wineries make up so they can
                 differentiate and charge for what basically is a commodity
                 product. Like you are ever going to taste the difference
                 between a '57 v. a '58 Chardonay, give me a break.
                 \- there is a dramatic different between $5 and a $100
                    bottle of wine. that's pretty much objective. whether
                    the difference is worth $90, is a subjective Q, as is
                    whether you'd prefer a coke or water to the $100 bottle.
                 \_ The person above obviously doesn't like wine. People
                    *can* tell the difference. A sommelier is tested on
                    it. If you cannot tell the differences between a white
                    grand cru from Burgundy, a fine California chardonnay,
                    and jug wine made from 'chenin blanc' then your palate
                    is dead. To the OP: you are going to have to make some
                    choice here even if it is just red/white.
                    \_  With practice, I'm sure I could develop the ability
                        to differentiate between gasolines made at different
                        refineries around the world with different processes
                        in different years by smell also.  It would still
                        taste and smell like shit.  Whenever I meet an American
                        wine snob they turn out to be a pretentious asshole.
                        \_ So you don't like wine. BFD. I don't know why
                           you have to be so hateful about it. I don't
                           like men fucking my ass and yet if it works
                           for you then great.
                           \_ I've spent plenty of time around guys who like
                              ass-fucking, but none of them have ever said
                              the equivalent of, say, "If you cannot tell the
                              differences between a white grand cru from
                              Burgundy, a fine California chardonnay, and jug
                              wine made from 'chenin blanc' then your palate is
                              dead."  I guess the equivalent would be to
                              imply that my cock doesn't really work since
                              I know nothing of the finer points of ass-fucking,
                              with the implication that I'm also uncultured
                              because of my ass fucking deficit. Yet I have
                              never heard that sort of elitist horseshit from
                              any of the ass fuckers I have ever known.  Fuck
                              all wine snobs.
                              \_ You sound like someone in need of a good
                                 ass fucking.
                              \_ That's not an elitist comment.  Anyone with
                                 with working tastebuds can tell the difference
                                 between those wines, although I wouldn't
                                 expect them to be able to tell which is which.
                                 PP's comment, translated to condiments would
                                 be "If you can't tell the difference between
                                 ketchup, mustard and mayonaise, your palate is
                                 dead."  You seem to have a big chip on your
                                 shoulder.  Certainly there are big wine snobs
                                 but just because someone knows and likes wine
                                 that does not make them an elitist snob. -!pp
                                 \_ I never said that liking wine or even
                                    being an expert on wine made someone
                                    an elitist snob.  I said I hate wine snobs.
                                    Past threads have shown that the motd
                                    is full of dickhead culture snobs on
                                    several subjects, including wine.  I saw
                                    an opportunity to tell them to fuck
                                    off and I took it.
                                    \_ I asked a question not long ago about
                                       authentic Italian restaurants and you
                                       (the real dickhead) accuse me of
                                       being a culture snob. What I didn't
                                       tell you was that I was asking for
                                       my friends who are Italian who are
                                       sick of "Italian restaurants" in
                                       this country who want something
                                       closer to their homeland. Instead
                                       of going around accusing others of
                                       being culture snobs, why don't you
                                       provide some useful info.
                                       \_ Well, I guess you've outed me as
                                          a misanthrope.  I loathe humanity,
                                          and unless you're an AI that means
                                          you.  So fuck off.
                                \_ You know, from all the wine folk I've
                                   met, it seems they're just about the
                                   nicest people around.  I've met far
                                   more arrogant elitist snobs in the
                                   sciences, business, and computers than
                                   in enology.
                                   \_ Correct usage of esoteric technical
                                      word: +2 points.
2004/11/24-26 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Reference/Celebration] UID:35062 Activity:moderate
11/24   OK, I'm a WASP and I've only ever had Thanksgiving dinner with other
        WASPs.  What are some ethnic things other people like to have on
        Thanksgiving?  I'm kinda curious.
        \_ "To serve man"  -John
        \_ Thanksgiving is not an Anglo thing.  Just ask anyone from Great
           Britian. :p  It's a pure American holidy, and for the most part,
           we don't do anything other than glad to have couple days off :p
        \_ We have this dish called "turkey". It is a very big bird and
           we prepare it by roasting it in an oven. We also have corn,
           sometimes on the cobb, and there's always the smoked ham we
           get from Costco. -williamc
        \_ tamales.
           \_ We WASCatholics do much the same thing, but then we drink.
              \_ Well we put out the good wine on Thanksgiving. -opWASP
                 \_ From a bottle?
                    \_ with a cork!
                       \_ Twist off caps are going to be the hot thing soon
                       \_ oooh...
                          \_ Pff... 2 years ago we had a ~20 y.o. bottle of
                             Stag's Leap Cab. Sauv. -op
        \_ Turducken.   mmmmm
           \_ I just heard about Turducken during a recent trip to Texas,
              where are you from?
        \_ My family is traditional w/ Thanksgiving, but Persian friends of
           ours sometimes make a sweet walnut stew or sour cranberry rice.
           Both seem somewhat Thanksgiving-compatible.
           \_ See, this is the kind of thing I was asking about. -op
        \_ My family is Chinese American. Just about the only thing
           we do that's different is instead of stuffing (which we all
           think is gross), we use sticky rice.
           \_ Inside the turkey?
        \_ Navajo.  My parents make some food and we take it to the shelter
           to feed most of the homeless people who live there.  Sometimes
           when it's a wasp guy, I think, "I bet this is what it felt like
           back then."   And then I think of my slaughtered people and spit
           in their food when they're not looking.  I did that alot when I
           worked in a restaurant in high school.
           \_ Geee! Now there's a mature attitude to take! Spitting
              in someone's food plate, when you're there to help. Stupid
              fucking moron. Oh yeah, I bet the guy whose plate you spat
              on killed 100 indians, right? -non-WASP
              \_ It was really mature of the white people to give Indians
                 nice warm blankets laced with small pox back in the day.
           \_ Is this the first ever Native American race troll on the MOTD?
        \_ As a WASP you must atone for your racist imperialist
           history.
        \_ My in-laws, who are Vietnamese, just eat normal Vietnamese food.
           \_ Good to know, I'll be keeping my pets indoors today.
2004/8/13 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:32884 Activity:kinda low
8/12    R.I.P. Julia Child.  Pour out some wine on the ground in respect.
        \_ And of course, don't forget the optional heavy cream for added
           richness.
           \_ "A bit of cream at the end is a nourishing touch, but by no means
               necessary." -- Julia Child from The Way to Cook
2004/6/16 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Activities, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:30831 Activity:very high 66%like:34588
6/16    KISS MY ASS, LAKERS!!!
        \_ Yah -- it made my day when the lakers went down in flames.
        \_ No one cares.  Sorry.  Sports just aren't important.  Have some
           bread with your circuses.
           \_ Speak for yourself, geekboy.  How's that wedgie doing?
              \_ How's the bread taste?  Best circus I've seen since the
                 one last week!  Pass me a beer and a joint!
                 \_ Bread?  Dunno, don't watch the games.  Don't smoke out
                    either, so you're on your own there, too, Mr. Pothead Dork.
                    I don't think you're as smart as you think you are.
                    Perhaps you'd better stick to EQ.
                 \_ thank you, NERFAMC
                    \_ Ok, so you drink, you don't get laid, can't identify
                       a bread product and watch a lot of sports.  Big winner!
                       \_ heh, let's see: assumption, projection, assumption,
                          poor reading comprehension. 0/4.  Big Winner!  Keep
                          trying, Dorkie.
                          \_ *laugh* ok, how about this: you're anal, boring,
                             drink, don't get laid with women, watch a lot of
                             sports, like bread products and take it up the
                             ass from your boyfriend twice a week.
           \_ I might take your moral superiority seriously if I thought you
              were in the peace corps, or donating all your free time to a
              non-profit, but in reality I'm sure you're just some geek into
              videogames, comic books, and sci-fi who just doesn't like sports.
              \_ What moral superiority?  I never said I was better.  I said
                 sports aren't important.  Sorry, no vgs, cbs or sci-fi.
        \_ The only thing better than watching the Lakers lose was watching
           the Red Sox kick the Yankees' asses in New York.
2004/6/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:30811 Activity:insanely high
6/14    Even better than ketchup as vegetable, USDA declares that french fries
        are a vegetable!  Or is that Freedom Vegetables?
        http://csua.org/u/7rs (yahoo news)
        \_ it's like the Ents took a long time to decide something obvious
        \_ Ketchup isn't a vegetable, it's a fruit.
           \_ Look, a fruit bat!
              \_ Eric the fruit bat?
        \_ The USDA never said ketchup was a vegetable but it's up there with
           Al Gore Invented The Internet jokes.
           \_ They were considering classifying it as a vegetable for school
              lunches. The fact that they even considered it is enough...
              \_ 'They' consider all sorts of stupid things.  I'll bet you
                 there are war plans on a dusty shelf in the pentagon somewhere
                 for what to do when Britain turns against us, invades Florida
                 and nukes the New York and Washington.  Just because it was
                 considered doesn't mean anything.  You take your government
                 way too seriously, IMO.
                 \_ Uh, the point was/is that governments suffer from
                    dilbertesque idiocy and lack common sense. I don't
                    see how you could grok that I "take government too
                    seriously" from that. Perhaps you are projecting...
                    I think it's rather sad that our tax money is being
                    wasted on studies such as "should ketchup be classified
                    as a vegetable." Apparently you don't. Perhaps you'd
                    like to pay for my share in all stupid studies, because
                    I'd certainly like a refund on my tax dollar.
                    \_ I think it's worse than sad.  I think government is too
                       big and too stupid.  I think our taxes should be 10% at
                       most and all the stupid programs, welfare, etc, should
                       go away.  I also think it's a hopeless cause.
                 \_ read the cia's own account of the government conspiracy
                    to conceal the existence of extraterrestrials--even
                    in the absence  of any such ETs existence:
                    http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/97unclass/ufo.html
                    \_ Ok...?  But what has this to do with ketchup, the
                       USDA and Al Gore's inventions?
                       \_  It's an example of government idiocy which may
                           appear somewhat sinister, but is really just
                           plain old idiocy.   hence it supports what the post
                           one level up was saying, which was why i posted it.
                           \_ Ah, ok.  Thanks.  I'll check out the link when
                              I get home.
           \_  But he DID!!!! Remember the information super-highway???
               \_ Remember the Alamo!
           \_ Wrong. The Reagan administation did propose classifying ketchup
              as a vegetable until public outcry forced them to back down:
              http://mimi.essortment.com/historyketchup_rlju.htm
              \_ Why do you hate America?
              \_ Yes yes some idiot always has to bring up some bullshit.
                 Move along.  I was there.  You were in diapers.
                 \_ obBothWaysUpHillThroughTheSnow
                        \_ Off topic, eh?  I said you were ignorant, not that
                           my life was harder.
                        \_ wimp. we had to fight sabertooth tigers
                           for our lunch and access to the modem
                           pool. This being before fire, clubs or
                           dsl.
                           \_ tigers?  you had tigers?!  jeez, what kind of
                              goddamn wet behind the ears punks are they letting
                              in these days, anyway?
                 \_ This is accepted fact.  Stop with your blatant attempts
                    at mythologizing.
                    \_ Accepted fact among your "thank god he's dead, I'm
                       going to rent Taxi Driver to celebrate" friends.  The
                       rest of us remember the truth.
                       \_ Wow.  You are truly deranged.
                          http://www.fact-index.com/k/ke/ketchup.html
                          \_ http://fact-index.com?  uh huh.
                       \_ Wrong. Of course, this is the "liberal
                          Washington Post" so I am sure you will
                          discount it:
                          http://csua.org/u/7s6
                          \_ Discount it?  Yes, but that's better than simply
                             deleting it instantly which is what you do when
                             I post links to back my statements.
2004/4/12 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:13155 Activity:nil
4/12   Motd restaurant review:  Liaison Bistro, Berkeley
       Decor was pleasant, if perhaps a little overwrought in its attempt to
       recreate an authentic French bistro(t).  Service was polite and
       attentice, without being solicitous.  Roast leg of lamb was excellent;
       fairly strong sauce complemented the meat nicely without overpowering
       it.  Duck confit was very good.  It was moist and flavorful.  I would
       have prefered some vegetables in the presentation.  Marinated artichoke
       was good and the presentation with citrus and fennel complemented well.
       Sauteed spinach also good.  Not too special but well done.  Desserts
       were mixed.  Tarte tatin was good but not special.  Side of rum raisin
       gelato went well.  Crust was a bit soggy.  Poached pear was poached in
       red wine, served with very rich vanilla ice cream and slice of puff
       pastry.  Topped with excellent dark chocolate sauce, which unfortunately
       distracted from the rest of the dessert.  Creme brulee had excellent
       custard with a lot of vanilla, but the sugar was too thin so it didn't
       form a stiff crust.
        \_ hello tawei. learn to indent.
           \_ I'm not tawei
              \_ restaurant/movie reviews with no attribution are worthless.
           \_ tawei hasn't logged in for a month
       \_ I haven't eaten at Liason in over a year, but I recall it was quite
          good.  They had fresh oysters on the half shell as a specialty
          appetizer which was excellent.  Portions were niggardly (no that's
          not a slur, look it up), but the meal was enjoyable nonetheless.
                \_ Oh dans, you are so smart and manly, can I suck your
                   cock please?  Pretty please with sugar on top?
                   \_ Geez, you're really hostile.  You should work on that.
                      You'll forgive my defensiveness, but college professors
                      have been kicked off campuses because some reactionary
                      elements choose not to use dictionaries.  In this case,
                      it was the right word.
                      -dans
                      \_ college professor?  I thought it was some city
                         official on the right coast.
          Personally, I prefer Gregoire on Cedar.  The food is comparable to
          that at Liaison, and, though not cheap, much more reasonably priced.
          Decor is, however, nonexistent. -dans
          \_ The portions seemed fine last night.  Probably depends on what
             you order.
             \_ I'd believe that.  As I said, I haven't eaten there in over a
                year.  A lot can change in a year. -dans
       \_ So wait, Kinney's stuff is bad, but this excretion is ok?
          \_ basically, kinney's stuff is much longer, and he is known for it.
             personally I like his posts, though.
             \_ me too.
2004/3/21-22 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:12787 Activity:nil
3/19    How many beer bottles are in a case of beer?
        \_ 24?
        \_ or 12
        \_ it depends on how drunk I am.
        \_ 12 bottles or 24 cans
2004/3/5-6 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:12541 Activity:high
3/5     Wired has an article about tracing meat (and all food) back to the
        source, and mentions Niman ranch.  Does anybody know more about this
        place (eg, visited a supplier)?  Is it a free range sort of operation?
     http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.03/start.html?pg=2?tw=wn_tophead_8
        \_ Niman is as politically correct as a meat-purveyor
           can get without letting all its animals munch on grass. Chez
           Panisse gets most of its meat from Niman, if that means anything.
           \_ Is it really such a problem to let the animals walk around a bit
              and... I don't know, sniff flowers, have sex with each other, do
              what animals do?  I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, I'm
                     \_ duh, it costs more money
              just wondering if it's possible to get meat that was raised this
              way, and how to find it.
              \_ http://www.nimanranch.com
                 Before moving to meat-packing nirvana (Chicago), I'd get
                 grass-fed beef from Berkeley Bowl. The guys
                 Niman's grass-fed beef from Berkeley Bowl. The guys
                 behind the meat counter would be kind enough to give
                 me detailed directions for cooking (temp not as high,
                 time not as long). The Wednesday food section of http://sfgate.com
                 has featured many articles on beef sources. Do a search
                 for "grass-fed" in its archives. -elizp
                 \_ what brought you to chicago?
                    \_ My husband (login: fab --  yes, we're yet another
                       pair of csua breeders) was a UChicago grad student
                       while I taught at DePaul. -elizp
                       \_ oh, I took a class at DePaul last year, and am
                          thinking of a part-time MBA at UChicago.
                 me detailed directions for cooking (temp not as high,
                 time not as long). -elizp
                 for "grass-fed" in its archives. -elizp
                       while I taught at DePaul. -elizp
                          What's fab studying at UC?
              \_ Walk around:  Pigs and cows can do this already.  They're not
                 the most athletic animals, though.
                 Sniff flowers: They are penned in high-enough densities that
                 flowers get trampled.  For there to be non-trampled flowers,
                 they'd have to be kept in a large area, like rangeland.  That
                 costs $$.  Have sex?  No way.  They are selectively bred.
                 If they were allowed to breed randomly, you'd get traits that
                 are undesireable in a food animal.  Plus they are usually
                 sterilized and/or segregated so they won't fight.  Would it
                 really make sense to have bulls or roosters fighting all day?
2004/1/21 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:11858 Activity:nil
1/20    I'm gonna be in San Diego for a weekend. Can anyone recommend anything
        cool to do or see (other than the SD zoo)? Thanks.
        \_ go to the movies?  read a book?  seriously, though.
           the Wild Animal Park out in north county is pretty neat.  much
           different feel from an ordinary zoo.  sea world is pretty much
           one big advertisement for anheiser busch.  but, it's there.
           old town.  pretty touristy.  good mexican food.  there.  eat
           good mexican food.  even the most run-down ro(x)berto's will
           have better mexican food than most places up here.  stay away
           from mission bay park.  it's nasty.  go to belmont park, wander
           the boardwalk.  coffeeshops have a much different vibe down there,
           are actual interesting hang-outs.  pacific beach has a bunch of
           them.  claire de lune in... mission hills?... is also pretty
           nice, they have a lot of open mics and poetry nights.  la jolla
           cove is a nice place to swim.  there are good bookstores on adams
           avenue, around the ken theatre.  i haven't been there since i was
           a kid, but seaport village used to be fun.  way back when.
           unfortunately, the best part was a fish and chips place which
           has since closed.  maybe very bleak or very touristy, but who knows?
           maybe it still has class.
           \_Boy, you almost make me wish I was going to San Diego.  Can you do
             this for other cities?  If I had known that the motd was a travel
             guide too, I would have asked it lots of stuff before.  Is there
             anything the motd CAN'T do?  (besides ignoring trolls?)
           \_ You missed the two best walking neighborhoods in San Diego:
              Gaslamp District and Hillcrest. Hillcrest has lots of coffee
              shops and cafes and Downtown has tapas bars and Croce's, a Jazz
              joint. The Downtown Mall is a trippy place. The Elephant
              Bar is La Jolla is fun. Lots of dance places in Pacific
              Beach, they come and go all the time, so I can't recommend
              any specific one.
              \_ Isn't Old Town the same thing as the Gas Lamp? I was just
                 in Coronado this weekend and had a good time there. La Jolla
                 is another favorite.
                 \_ No, Old Town is near the airport and Gas Lamp is downtown.
        \_ punany in tihhhhaaaajuana
           \_ if you can't get it at berkeley you can't get it in tj.  once
              you figured out how to get it here you can get it anywhere.
              it's all the same.
              \_ Yeah, that's how I felt about your mom.
                 \_ You can't afford my mom.
        \_ Go see if there are hot chicks at UCSD?
        \_ If you like good beer, visit Stone Brewing Co.
           \_ In an industrial park in San Marcos, North County, my home
              town.  On the way to/from the Wild Animal Park. --erikred
2003/12/28-30 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:11601 Activity:high
12/28   A La Carte Restaurant on Dwight near Sacramento: Been there?  Any
        good?  Still open?
        \_ I have been living there for three years. Never heard of that one
           before. The two restaurants I know there are "Breads of India" and
           "Mehak Cusine", both Indian. The later is pretty good but I haven't
           been at "Breads of India" yet.
           \- Breads of India is often described by white people as
              "a good and cheap hole in the wall". the most true part
              of that description is "hole in the wall". you can look
              for my "cognitive dissonance theory of BoI" on ba.food.
              I didnt think A La Carte was anything special then again/that
              is why I havent been there for +1yr. --psb
              \_ I've never understood why race somehow gives one credentials
                 to judge food.  I don't go to a restraunt to study what
                 authentic cuisine some some culture or another is, I go
                 there to eat.
                        \_ You can bring a whore to culture, but you can't
                           make her think.
                           \_ was that your idea of 'deep though'?  keep at it.
                 \- it's not a matter of judging authenticity in this case.
                    in fact authetnticity is BoI's strong point to some
                    extent. but going to an indian restaurant is a different
                    experience for "white people" than someone who grew up
                    eating indian food. i am sure dim sum is a different
                    experience for someone who gre up in HKG vs someone
                    who never went to dimsum until they moved to califonria
                    from the midwest to do their master's degree. e.g. it
                    doesnt bother my HKG associate to yell across the
                    restaurant in cantonese to get a water refill, while
                    whitey or psb might consider that bad service.
                    i'll give you one funny example: the last 3-4 times i
                    have ordered a mango lassi in the evening, it has been
                    spoiled. this is really obvious ... it's like drinking
                    sour milk. i have never seen a white person complain
                    about this. also white people and indian people have
                    different "population distribution properties" in terms
                    of hotness. etc. --psb
                    \_ there are so many idiotic aspects to your blather
                       i don't know where to start so i'll stick with a minor
                       one.  It's funny how your definition of white is
                       "not from india".  I had no idea there were so many
                       white people in China and Africa.
                       \- by "white people" i actually meant people not from
                          india, pakistan, sri lanka, pela, bhutan, sikkim
                          and afganistan and not a uighur. --psb
                    \_ Partha, you are one hot Indian. I've thought so
                       for many years, you neo-hindu-con hottie!!
                   \_ Hey partha can you write up an essay on the food
                      preferences of other people, too?  Did you start that
                      ba.food about black people and watermelon?  That was
                      a classic!  Oh yeah, like you, I also have black friends
                      so it's ok, right?
                      \- how long did you have to rub your two neurons
                         together to come up with that? --psb
                         \_ racism is as racism does (or posts threads).  your
                            post was really sickening.
                            \_ Seconded. Painful to read and psb should know
                               better.
                         \_ I pity the liberalPC-on-the-brain fool who mistakes
                            factual honesty with racism.
                            \_ I'll bet you have a black friend, too.
                      \- do black people like cheeseboard? --psb
              \_ Partha, it sounds like you've been to A La Carte. Do you
                 know if it still exists?  I'm looking for a cajun/creole
                 fix, and the rabbit at Gingerbread House still has pellets
                 in it. --op
                 \- i was forced to go to the gingerbread house ...
                    i dont think it does well in price/performance.
                    but then again i dont like the complicated cajun/creole
                    dishes. you should have gone to gravy's while they were
                    still around. soul bros kitchen might still have alligator
                    on the menu. [not that exciting]. --psb
                    \_ It should be noted, however, that alligator does not,
                       in fact, taste like chicken.  It tastes like fish.
                       \_ Best dish I had in New Orleans: shrimp and alligator
                          sausage cheesecake at Jacque-Imo's.
                          \_ That would make my taste-buds explode.
                          \_ What's a "sausage cheesecake"?  I'm having trouble
                             with the visual.
                             \_ It was kind of like quiche, actually.
                \_  The Gingerbread House is crap.  Sadly, pickings for
                    cajun/creole are slim around here.  Tropix on Piedmont
                    Ave. is okay though.  And I think Soul Brothers Kitchen is
                    now an Ethiopian restaurant. --chris
                    \_ We ended up going to Tropix.  It was exquisite.  My
                       wife had the gumbo, and I had the jerk chicken, and
                       we were both well contented.  And while I'm not usually
                       partial to beer cocktails, their Bul was the perfect
                       drink to go along with the spicy food.  We have a new
                       favorite place to take visitors. --op
                       \_  Glad you enjoyed Tropix.  My husband is from
                           Louisiana, it's the only place he feels has
                           "decent" cajun/creole around here.  We have had
                           better, but it has all been in the South.  --chris
2003/12/22-23 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:11562 Activity:high
12/21   I want to buy some really nice fancy chocolate; what's a good place
        in SF? Other than Godiva, Ghiradelli. Like the fancy chocolate place
        they went to in NYC in Queer Eye.
        \_ support small businesses http://www.prestonscandy.com
           has been in Burlingame for over 50 years and is GREAT candy.
        \_ If you can mail order, http://www.teuscher.com  -John
        \_ Go to Neiman Marcus, top floor.  Ask for "La Maison Du Chocolat."
           By far the best chocolate you've ever tasted, if you're in luck.
           It often sells out VERY Quickly.  Although, I believe the
           boutique store in NY may ship if you desire.  In that case,
           just google, and look for the NY store(upper East side, iirc).
           They might sell directly online, but that would be from Paris.
           If it's too $$ or not fast enough, Neuhaus is _far_ better Belgium
           than Godiva is.  I believe Macy's cellar has Neuhaus.  But I
           would go with LMDC first, if possible. -nivra
           \_ Other than fancy packaging and European, are they really any
              better than America's own See's Candy?
              \_ I've got to assume this is a troll. Ugh.
              \_ Is there a difference between a Tootsie Roll and See's?
                 \_ Silly customer.  You cannot harm the Twinkie.
                 \_ No one ever claimed the TR was made of chocolate.
              \_ In a word, yes.
                 \_ In another word, wax.
        \_ I didn't realize that anyone local sold La Maison Du Chocolat; it's
                                                   \- this is a real name and
                                                      not a joke ... like say
                                                      the fine purveyors of
                                                      "crunchy frog"?
                                        yes, real name.  surprised _/
                                        you haven't come across their
                                        stores while in paris.  would not
                                        be surprised if the name is "la maison
                                        du chocolat" from when they were
                                        in fact the house of chocolate.
                                        personally not particularly fond of
                                        their chocolates.  usually buy from
                                        madame de sevigny instead if i'm in
                                        the pricey-chocolate-for-the-woman
                                        mood.  obtw, thanks for pointer to
                                        nils. didn't visit the outlet with the
                                        hot blonde, but they made still quite
                                        good sandwiches at another location.
                                        \- did you have the reindeer sandwich?
                                           [this isnt xmas trolling ... that
                                           is what i had]. the best sandwich
                                           in paris ... in fact the best swich
                                           i ever had in my life is at
                                           le regency bar at the prince des
                                           galles in the 8ieme. not cheep--psb
                                the one time i set out to find le _/
                                regency on your recommendation, i did not
                                realize it was in prince de galles, so i
                                could not find the restaurant even after
                                walking the length of georges v.  i have not
                                had the time to repeat the quest the other
                                times i've been in paris since.  - tse, obtw
                                                      oh and all of your names
                                                      are being filed away for
                                                      death when the revolution
                                                      comes --psb
                                                      \-Advisory for Garvitch:
                                        A fun paris food guide for Paris
                                        is E. Rubin: Gourmet Paris. For a
                                        longer stay, P. Wells: Food Lover's
                                        Guide to Paris. Other good s'wich
                                        locations are Cosi on R. Seine 6e,
                                        and (IAOC) La Maison du Cassoulet
                                        [I am not making that up] on R. Mont-
                                        orguil in 1er --psb
           the best I've found.  I usually order online from their store in
           New York.  Since it is their policy to only ship via next day air,
           it won't take long to receive (though that does add significantly
           to the cost).  I'd suggest you start with their plain truffles.
           If you're intent on something that originated in SF, I've heard
           good things about XOX Truffles.  Lots of people seem to like
           Joseph Schmidt's chocolates, but I've never cared for them.
                                                                - alawrenc
        \_ let me just say Herschey's Pot of Gold sucks.
        \_ The Candy Jar, in SF.  Their stuff gets resold at places like
           Nordstroms.  Good stuff.  You can drop by their factory store
           and pick up either the pretty packaged boxes or you can get a
           box of assorted seconds that taste just as good.  Give them a
           ring to check hours and such. --Jon
            The Candy Jar Inc
            2065 Oakdale Ave
            San Francisco, CA 94124-2040
            Phone: (415) 550-8846
        \_ has anyone tried cabaret chocolates?  Were they good?
           http://www.cabaretchocolates.com
        \_ Depends on your idea of chocolate and your wallet. Some BA makers:
           http://www.xoxtruffles.com (SF) sells fresh traditional European-style
            flavored truffles (small irregular balls rolled in cocoa dust).
           http://www.jschmidtconfections.com (SF) sells fresh American truffles
            (chocolate shell, flavoring inside).
           http://www.scharffen-berger.com (BRK) specializes in dark chocolate bars.
           http://www.cabaretchocolates.com (OAK) are dark chocolate candies (not as
            dense as bars).
           The latter three can be found at The Candy Store on College,
           near Clarmont (across from the Safeway). The first can be found
           in SF but I do remember seeing a reseller on 4th St. next to Peets.
           Note that much of this stuff is the deeper dark chocolate flavor
           with less sugar involved. Your tastebuds may disagree. My family is
           partial to the XOX truffles...
           \_Scharffen-Berger is great...if your areever in Berkeley go on
             their factory tour (about an hour and free).  Their chocolate
             is more like chocolate for wine lovers...very rich/complex.
             \_ I second this. I've tasted a hell of a lot of the world's
                chocolate and there is not much better than Scharffen-Berger,
                domestic or otherwise. They don't do much by way of chocolates
                though - just the pure chocolate. -- ulysses
                \_ Thirded.  Scharffen-Berger is awesome.  Kudos to mconst for
                   first pointing it out to me.  -- ilyas
        \_One of the best chocolatiers I know is Bernard Callebaut, originally
          from Canada.  They used to have a store in SF, but closed because of
          no publicity.  http://www.bernardcallebaut.com  Pricey, though.
          \_ Valrhona and Callebaut are widely considered to be the best
             two chocolates in the world. Valrhona leads all chocolate in
             percentage of cocoa used (over 80% by weight).
             \_ Scharffen-Berger has a 99% one.
                \_ Unsweetened, of course, and for baking not for consumption
                   as a treat.
                   \_ I ve eaten it before.
        \_ None of these places hold a candle to Le Chat Bleu, an artisan
           chocolate maker on the Belgian-French border.
           chocolate maker on the Belgian-French border. Famous all over
           France for having the best hand made chocolate.
                \_ It's fucking French, dude.  You don't go to France for
                   chocolate, you go there for cheese.  Schober & Teuscher
                   in Zurich is IT.  -John
                   \_ This report link from XOX says it's merely "acceptable":
                      http://www.xoxtruffles.com/press/press15.htm
                                \- does anyone else think "Leonidas" is a
                   \_ This report link from XOX says it's merely "acceptable":
                      http://www.xoxtruffles.com/press/press15.htm
                                   pretty weird name choice for a putative
                                   high end chocolate? --psb
                                   \_ It's Spartan, but delicious!
                      See the lists on the bottom. I thought you go to Zurich
                   chocolate, you go there for cheese.  Schober & Teuscher
               \_ Don't be a hater.
           chocolate maker on the Belgian-French border. Famous all over
           France for having the best hand made chocolate.
                   in Zurich is IT.  -John
                      See the lists on the bottom. I thought you go to Zurich
                      for bank accounts and watches?
                      for bank accounts and watches?
                      \_ Guns too.
                      \_ Guns too.
                      \_ This list is the "Greatest Chocolates in America". I
                         am not sure what that means except that it excludes
                         a lot of superior European chocolate.
                         \_ Freshness, availability, cost of transport, and
                            perhaps some bit of nationalism.
            \_ Yermom's famous all over France, too.
               \_ Don't be a hater.
2003/11/10-11 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:11010 Activity:high
11/10   I'm bringing a Triple Rock beer ball tonight.  What do you prefer?
        \_ Is the beer ball an object or an event?
           \_ err ok in english:  I am bringing a box of beer to the csua bbq
        Bug Juice: 01
2003/8/5 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:29233 Activity:very high
8/4     What sort of food will change the color of various body fluids?
                \_ if you eat enough of 'em  beets'll turn pee pink
        \_ Certain vitamin supplements make urine green.
        \_ if you eat enough of 'em  beets'll turn pee pink
        \_ Asparigus makes it stinky. Vitamin C makes it REALLY yellow.
         \_ b12 makes it almost orange it is so yellow.
        \_ Enough wine will make your spit turn purple.
        \_ cantaloupe will turn your shit green, blueberries -> blue
         \_ and beets will make you convinced you are shitting blood
        \_ I don't know about color, but last time I ate really hot
           buffalo wings, my penis stings when I pee.  Only time that
           happened even though I ate spicy stuff all my life.
           \_ that wasn't the food.  that's an STD.  get to a clinic.
        \_ And for something men will prolly want to try
           http://boom.net/aw?atJM
         \_ Just eat lots of pineapple and don't smoke.  Rumor has it
            being vegan helps too, but I've never tested that one out. -aspo
            \_ that's just wishful thinking, look at your teeth, do you
               think man was meant to be a vegan?
2003/6/12-13 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:28717 Activity:very high
6/12    Goddammit, quitting caffeine (again) sucks.  How the hell did I do
        it the last time, and how do I stay awake in the meantime? --erikred
        \_ Don't go cold turkey.
           \_ Too late.  And now I'm a cranky bastard. --erikred
           \_ You *have* to.  You can't slowly cut down.  It never works.
        \_ How do people get addicted to caffeine? I used to have coffee
           and/or soda daily, but one day I just stopped, and I never really
           felt anything different.  Was I not drinking enough?
           \_ Soda daily is not as likely to cause addiction.  Two cups of
              coffee per day is much more likely.  I got addicted when I
              started teaching (from zero to two cups per _morning_ in
              nothing flat).  Also see:
              http://home.howstuffworks.com/caffeine.htm and
              http://home.howstuffworks.com/question480.htm
              \_ Ah ok. You take it all at once. If I do drink more than one
                 cup, it's usually hours apart.
                 \_ If you drink coffee, you've got a caffeine addiction.  Try
                    stopping and see how shitty you feel.  Either that or
                    you're getting it from somewhere else like massive amounts
                    of chocolate.
                    \_ Is this the same dumbass who said "no one drinks coffee
                       for the taste"?
                    \_ Not necessarily. I went on vacation for two weeks and
                       never had a sip of coffee or soda and didn't feel any
                       side effects. And I despise chocolate and most sweets.
                    \_ Is this the dumbass who said "no one drinks coffee for
                       the taste"?  Get a life...
                       \_ No and you've added nothing to this thread.  Thanks
                          for nothing.
        \_ Why are you quitting? If you want to zip thru the morning, eat
           half a melon for breakfast. Avoid carbs for lunch. If you crash
           in the evening, have a small cup of coffee to get you thru the
           last hours.
           \_ what does a melon do for helping you zip through the morning?
              Or are you just talking gastrointestinally?
              \_ Well, carbs are one form of brain food. Unfortunately, refined
                 sugars zip in and then out of you too quickly, i.e. they pick
                 pick you up, but then let you crash too quick. The carbs in
                 fruit, like a melon, seems to be more time-released. So, at
                 least for me, my thought processes and productivity were pretty
                 incredible during the mornings. A low-carbo lunch helps to
                 avoid having (or feeling) to take a nap in the afternoon.
              \_ Well, carbs are one form of brain food. Unfortunately,
                 refined sugars zip in and then out of you too quickly,
                 i.e. they pick pick you up, but then let you crash too
                 quick. The carbs in fruit, like a melon, seems to be more
                 time-released. So, at least for me, my thought processes
                 and productivity were pretty incredible during the
                 mornings. A low-carbo lunch helps to avoid having (or
                 feeling) to take a nap in the afternoon. [corrected wrap]
                 \_ Yeah like I would just make sure to take the final using
                    the same drugs I studied on and it puts me in the same
                    state of mind!
                 \_ you are an idiot. -phuqm
                 \_ Oh, thank you, guru!  Tell me how else to fix my miserable
                    life through your, populist/hippie/newage/media-hyped
                    anecdote-driven, "nutritionalist" nonsense.
                    \_ Believing it works is half the battle.
           \_ Why not just use crack?  If you're going to be a drug addict,
              just do it right and stop playing around like a baby.
        \_ Wimp.  Just fucking stop.
           \_ Oh, thank you, guru!  Tell me how else to fix my miserable
              life through your tough-love method.
              \_ Kill yourself.
                 \_ Would that prove that I'm hardcore?
                    \_ It would improve your life.  Proof is for the weak.
        \_ I've quit coffee a couple times, once was at the start of summer
           vacation, i had nothing to do and was too lazy to buy and make it
           for myself, (it was easy at the co-op) so i just quit.  I had a
           headache for three days/nights straight, but then i was over it.
           The last time i quit i was working and the cold turkey thang was not
           an option.  I did the gradual thing and it worked fine.  for the
           first week or so i allowed myself one cup in the morning and then
           all the black tea i could drink.  Then i went to just all the black
           tea i can drink, now i pretty much drink nothing but green-tea.
           I never had a headache, but i had desperate cravings for coffee,
           much worse than any i experienced when i quit cold (because i
           was at work, and I haven't had a job/school without chain drinking
           coffee since i was about 14). -phuqm
           \_ be a slave to your drug of choice!
              \_ I'm a slave to both my drugs of choice (caffeine and alcohol)
                 but if i believe the populist-hippie-newage "nutritionalistis"
                 like the one above then, hey, that's o.k. because green tea
                 is good for me, so the 8 cups or so a day i drink are helping
                 me stay healthy.  -phuqm
                 \_ Rice and green tea and living atop a mountain spinning
                    prayer wheels and humming all day while mastering Bruce
                    Lee moves will keep you healthy and young forever.
           \_ This is cool, phuqm, but I'm trying to quit caffeine, not
              just coffee.  Sure, I'll still drink decaf (3-4mgs I can
              handle), but switching from coffee to green tea is like
              switching from crack to cocaine-- I don't just want to
              trade masters. ok, thnx --erikred
2003/5/18-19 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:28480 Activity:very high
5/18    Any recommendations for where we can take wine-tasting classes?
        Bay-area location.
        \_ Stanford has such classes.  The pompous dickhead I work with who
           went there won't shut up about it.  Fuck you and your spoiled
           grape juice.
           \_ If he was truly pompous he'd say how terrible the class was and
              point out all the instructor's errors and bad taste.
        \_ You need a class to drink wine?
                or men that way.
        \_ Why bother?  Do some reading up on basic grape types and drink what
           you like.  -John
           \_ Well, I suppose that you could meet somewhat affluent women
              or men that way.   [formatd]
              \_ If you're playing host to educated people, it's nice to be
                 able to order wine without looking like an ass.
                 \_ Uhm gee, I'm educated but I know nothing about wine.  I
                    guess that Berkeley degree wasn't really worth anything
                    since I didn't take the student run wine drinking class.
                 \_ If you're host to truly educated people, you will look
                    like more of an ass if you try to be pretentious and show
                    off how knowledgeable you are about something as silly as
                    wines--trust me on this one.  Order what you are
        \_ Sure you are not gay?
                    comfortable with from experience, and for god's sake, I
                    don't know what problem people have with ASKING THE
                    SOMMELIER.  That's what he's there for.  Or someone else
                    at the table if you're not sure or he recommends the most
                    expensive bottle (which isn't always the best.)  It does
                    not show your ignorance--I find self-proclaimed "experts"
                    who grab the wine list while your group is ordering to be
                    pretty insufferable.  -John
                    \_ Hmm.  That's pretty decent advice, actually.
                    \_ I find idiots who don't drink wine at all with
                       their meal or who have a problem with me checking
                       out the wine list to be insufferable. A great meal
                       deserves a great wine. I agree that asking the
                       sommelier is a good thing, though. Many people never
                       speak to the sommelier and he can be a great help.
                       Sommeliers are more helpful the more you know, though,
                       so it's a Catch 22. Tell the sommelier your price
                       range, what you are eating, and what you've had
                       that you like. That will help. --dim
                       \_ You find it insufferable that others don't drink wine
                          with their meals?  There are numerous reasons to not
                          drink wine such as: religion, recovering, or you just
                          don't like it.  I find your attitude insufferable!
                          \_ I find the fact you find it insufferable
                             insufferable. If you don't drink wine you are
                             a heathen unless there is a medical excuse. --dim
                 \_ that depends on what your definition of educated is.
                    \_ Who are you, Jesse Jackson??  Use a frickin'
                       dictionary.
                       \_  A dictionary, huh?  According to the
                           dictionary definition, I and most of my friends
                           are *very* well educated.  Yet somehow neither
                           I nor anyone I can stand to be around is a wine
                           snob.  Because wine snobs are assholes.  Some
                           of them are well-educated assholes, and some of
                           them are just assholes.  But they are assholes
                           nonetheless.  I'll bet you think golf and
                           sailing are sports.
                           \_ Nope.  Not sports.  But at least I know how
                              to use a dictionary.
                              \_ % dict asshole
                                 \_ % dict dictionary
           \_ It's useful to have some guidance. There are so many
              wineries from different countries at different price points
              making wines with different grapes in different styles. A
              good wine shop might be a useful first start. Kermit Lynch
              in Berkeley is a good wine shop. Ask there. Also, you have
              a huge benefit in being near to Napa/Sonoma and environs so
              you can go taste on your own, although you won't learn much
              unless you schedule an appointment and go on a tour. --dim
        \_ Sure you are not gay?  Try the castro.
        \_  Try UC Extension.
            \- Barrier to entry on california wines is about 30 min.
               Barrier to entry on french is like 10 years. I think it is
               reasonable to read something like the Wine-Dummy book and
               find out what the various grapes are, since CA wines pretty
               much tell you and the book will give you some sense of
               how they "map" to french regions. I think after about
               30 min, diminishing marginal returns set in. --psb
               \_ Can't I just order a 7UP and just enjoy my meal?
        \_ Just order Italian Dolcettos - honest, affordable and tastes
           good.
2003/5/1-2 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:28290 Activity:very high
5/1     http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/01/farm.salmon.ap/index.html
        Now that I'm a vegetarian, I don't have to deal with BS like this.
        Best of luck to you meat eaters.  -happy vegan
        \_ No, you get to deal with BS like the Organic Food mis-
           labelling legislation.
           labelling legislation.  Lucky you.
        \_ Are you vegan or vegetarian?  You know they color cheese too, right?
           Do you have to worry about your protein? -happy omnivore
           \_ they aslo color butter, not sure about Margarine.  Natural
              butter is actually semi-transparent (like solidified oil
              as it should be) most of the time.
                \_ I'm vegan.  I don't drink milk or eat cheese or eat eggs.
                   No animal products.  If you want to find out more, I
                   strongly recommend John Robbins' Diet for a New America and
                   The food revolution.   -OP
                   \_ How come all the veggie people look so unhealthy?
                   \_ too bad veganism doesn't include knowing how to format
                       motd posts correctly.
                   \_ I'm a level 7 vegan.  I don't eat anything that casts a
                      shadow.
                      \_ Level _FIVE_.  Level _FIVE_ Vegan!  You suck.
                         \_ sorry
                      \_ Is that like +7 Charisma?
           \_ as an omnivore I refuse to eat dyed cheese.  Also the whole
              vegetarians need to worry about protein thing is pretty much
              a myth.
        \_ Vegetables and fruits have natural coloring in them.
           \_ ... and these colorings can often be used to roughly gauge
              the health or flavorfullness of a fruit or vegetable. dying
              farm-raised salmon so that is appears more "natural" just
              seems gross... not to mention deceitful on a certain level
        \_ Farming salmon seems like a responsible thing. No one would eat
           it if it was gray, but there's nothing wrong with it. --dim
           \_ There are problems and a great deal of research about it,
              particularly at UW School of Fisheries. The jury is still
              out. Nutrient loading down-gradient from the farms has been
              a particular issue as well as some concerns about escapees.
              \_ agreed.
           \_ You know, there's a reason why americans are so fat and sick.
              It's all about the food.  You eat too much and also there's too
              much processed and packaged and "ready-to-eat" meals.  If we
              all go back to our roots and start cooking from fresh ingredients
              again, we wouldn't be in this health crisis.  -OP
              \_ Go back to our roots?  You understand that almost everything
                 in the market comes from another continent, right?  That if
                 we went back to our roots, there'd be nothing in CA to eat
                 except fish and acorns and we're all outta fish!
                 \_ BUZZ!  Much of the produce you eat is grown in CA.
                    Same with a lot of the meat and poultry if you buy
                    decent quality meat.
                    \_ Good try but only to a small degree and to zero for
                       the more exotic items littering the typical veggie diet.
              \_ How is farming salmon any worse than you buying your veggies
                 and lentil beans at Berkeley Bowl?  You're still buying
                 goods that have been prepared and shipped to you.
        \_ That's why I eat wild salmon.  I've heard that the wild salmon
           who feed on plankton are more nutritious anyway.
           \_ Yeah! Support the wild salmon industry! -former salmon fisherman
        \_ Vegans are great, especially marinated with a red wine sauce and
           some vegetables on the side.  (gotta love that corn fed beef).
           \_ Kids are better.  Still soft and tender.  So yummy!  Not all
              stringy and fibrous like a vegan.
                \_ Damn it, you guys are making me hungry.
2003/3/2-3 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:27581 Activity:insanely high
3/2     Restuarant Review: Athithi on Haste.  Great vegetarian indian
        food.  The samosas and vegetables squares with chutney were
        superb appetizers.  Also tried cream of wheat with veggies
        (excellent) and lentil pancake (not bad).  All this stuff fed
        two people for $11.00
        \_ wait, isn't Athithi on Dwight at Telegraph?
        \_ Where can I find an Indian restaurant that does beef?  Cow
           tastes good, would be better with some of their sauces.
           \_ learn how to cook and make it yourself pathetic boy.
              \_ Who says I don't?  But good restaurants do a better job
           \_ Why does a brother got to sign his name? I don't know, there
              seems to be some arrogance about those who always sign their names
              It is like saying, "Oh what i'm saying is so great and smart, i'll
              sign it and flaunt my great knowledge of books, movies, computers,
              wine, politics, etc." see tom, psb, etc etc
                 than I, and it's worth my $$ to save my time.
        \_ Why not sign your name to this?  Are you afraid of being sued?
           or are you a family member of the owner?   --PeterM
           \_ Habit.  Neither.  -- mjm (op)
           \_ Why duz some broda' gots'ta sign his dojigger? ah'
              duzn't know, dere seems t'be some arrogance about
              dose who always sign deir dojiggers It be likes sayin',
              "Oh whut i'm sayin' be so great and smart, i'll sign
              it and flaunt mah' great knowledge uh scribblin's,
              movies, clunkers, wine, politics, etc." see tom, psb,
              etc etc
              \_ In this case, I asked the guy his name because now he can
                 be emailed follow-up questions, and people who know his taste
                 in food sucks or rules can weigh it accordingly.  --PM
                \_ you prefer people who think what they're saying is
                   so pathetic and idiotic they won't sign their name to it?
                    -tom
                   \_ I prefer that it not be an issue at all.  -- someone else
                        \_ of course it's an issue.  there's a value to knowing
                           the source of a comment.  -tom
                           \_ not "of course".  not when some people put more
              \_ You're right, there is that tendency among a few.
                 But fortunately, it continues to be the case that no one's
                 forcing you to sign your name.
                              value on the source of a comment than the text
                              of the comment looking to start a flame fest.
                                \_ the opposite is much more true; trolls
                                   posting inflammatory garbage that would
                                   be ignored if it were attributed.  -tom
                                   \_ I beg to disagree.  You sign 3/4s of the
                                      time and people (like me, duh) still
                                      reply to you for some reason.  Drat.  I
                                      just realized I've been trolled! ack!
                   \_ who's preventin' de motd fum becomin' cliqueish
        \_ So you are flatulent?
2003/1/30 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:27243 Activity:nil 63%like:27239
1/29    What's de difference between edyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol?  I
        went t'a drug sto'e and saw products labeled "70% edyl alcohol",
        "70% isopropyl alcohol" and "91% isopropyl alcohol".  ah' plum wants'
        sump'n t'wipe da damn skin befo'e some needle injecshun.  (No it be not
        drugs.)
        \_ use edyl. it be sump'n ya' kin actually drink. it be safer.
           \_ blindness be cool.
              \_ If ya' duzn't know Buckwheat shit, den, shut da damn fuck up.
                 de one dat cause blindness be Medanol. CH3OH
        \_ isopropyl be used as some disinfectant.
        \_ Edyl=CH3-CH2-OH, Isopropyl alcohol=(CH3)3-C-OH
        \_ Use hyodrogen puh'oxide.  What it is, Mama!  Wo'ked on mah' fro.
2003/1/29-30 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:27239 Activity:high 63%like:27243
1/29    What's the difference between ethyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol?  I
        went to a drug store and saw products labeled "70% ethyl alcohol",
        "70% isopropyl alcohol" and "91% isopropyl alcohol".  I just want
        something to wipe the skin before a needle injection.  (No it's not
        drugs.)
        \_ use ethyl. it's something you can actually drink. it's safer.
           \_ blindness is cool.
        \_ isopropyl is used as a disinfectant.
        \_ Ethyl=CH3-CH2-OH, Isopropyl alcohol=(CH3)3-C-OH
        \_ Use hyodrogen peroxide.  Worked on my hair!
2002/11/25 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:26625 Activity:low
11/25   Anyone got a url to a photo of the Far Side cartoon,
        top half of the panel, nerd is sitting in bed, thinking
        'Does she like me?  Does she like me?  Does she like
        me a lot?  Does she like me more than I like her?  Does she?
        Huh?  HUH?' and the bottom panel has the girl sitting
        in bed thinking "I wonder if I like ice cream?'.
                It's "You know, I think I really like vanilla."
                or something like that.  -ax
                http://www.gibberish.com/tales/101296.html
2002/11/14 [Recreation/Dating, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:26537 Activity:very high
11/13   Trivia: Anybody know any references to "angel in disguise"?  It could
        be from music, TV, movies, just about all media.  Chick offered me
        dinner if I could tell her where it's from.  Please help, MOTD!
        \_ It's likely a bible reference lifted directly from the text.
        \_ are you incapable of using google?
           \_ I've Googled and STFW, but wanted to cull the collective
              consciense of the CSUA.  Google found Brandy songs, but that's
              probably not it.
        \_ http://us.imdb.com/Title?0041124
           http://www.altavista.com/web/results?q=%22angels+in+disguise \
             %22&kgs=0&kls=1&avkw=qtrp  -John
        \_ I've heard of devil in disguise
           \- er is it likelt to be pop trivia or something obscure/literary.
              assuming the former, probably an ELVIS reference. --psb
              \_ Her big hint: elizabeth shue, angel in disguise -OP  help!
                    \- it is a leaving las vegas thing then.
                       i recommend asking "isnt E. Shue the chick who played
                       the skanky ho who was sodomized in LLV?"
                       Which brings us back to ELVIS. --psb
                       p.s. are you an alcoholic?
                 \_ google using elizabeth shue?  Must be some romantic
                    movie?
                    \_ Leaving Las Vegas? Yup. Romantic movie. I suggest
                       renting it the next time you want to get all cuddly
                       with your gf/bf.
                 \_ I'm getting lots of references to the movie the Saint
                    with Elisabeth Shue and Val Kilmer.
        \_ What a farce: she considered Pi Beta Phi's to be Angels in Disguises
           Is that a reputable sorority?
           \_ Huh?
        \_ there are a lot of blond people in Pi Phi - danh
        \_ All this for a dinner date?  She didn't even promise a BJ for this
           nonsense?  Dude, seriously, find another chick.  Avoid mind games.
           \- i dunno if it is so much the "playing games" in this case as
              the choice of LLV. if i am right, you owe me some answer
              lookups. --psb
              \_ Nope, not LLV.  Sorority girls think different.  But the
                 audacity ... she 'spected dinner from me!  One Top Dog,
                 coming up!  Thanks for all the help, MOTD -OP.
                 \_ you don't really apreciate top dog till you don't have it.
                    -alum
                    \_ Or sorority chicks. -another alum
                       \_ I concur. Spend a few bucks more and have a real
                          dinner. You may not score, but isn't worth a few
                          bucks to find out?
                          \_ No.  She's obviously just looking for a free meal.
                             Don't get used.  You don't have to buy sex at Cal.
                             There are plenty of perfectly good chicks walking
                             around who will put out without the games or the
                             meal fees.  Avoid the freebie meal mind chicks
                             like the plague they are.
                             \_ What? So you spent an extra $5 for a small
                                meal at an cheap place and trap the poor gal
                                into talking with you for the hour. Is it worth
                                the entertainment value?
2002/8/21-22 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:25637 Activity:very high
8/21    Everytime I mention that I like Starbucks' coffee to someone they
        always make snide comments.  Why don't people like Starbucks?
        \_ I don't know about you, but I think people are pretty stupid
        to pay 5 bucks for a 25c beverage. Then again, they pay $1 for
        16 oz of water, which is practically free. Anyway, coffee isn't
        good for you, drink water.
        \_ I don't know about you, but I think people are pretty stupid to pay
           5 bucks for a 25c beverage. Then again, they pay $1 for 16 oz of
           water, which is practically free. Anyway, coffee isn't good for
           you, drink water.  [formatd]
        \_ personally, i just hate coffee culture and everything that
           goes with it, including the stupid ass coffee snobery
           seen below.  all in all, starbucks is less infuriating than
           some of the indy coffee shops.  at least there's room to sit.
           on the other hand, they are a symbol of the faceless yuppie
           strip mall that is replacing the concept of american community.
        \_ Cuz they have bad coffee.
        \_ Try Noah's Bagels coffee. Taste the difference.
           \_ Tully's, or any number of the downtown berkeley cafes...
              There are such better options than starbucks.  All you're
              buying is the brand..
        \_ I like Starbucks, too, but there are better coffee's out
           there. Sometimes the quality varies even within the same
           store, so find out who makes the best coffee, and go there
           when they are on shift.
           \_ Is making coffee really such rocket science?  How hard can it be?
              --non-coffee-drinker
              \_ If you can boil water you can make coffee. The difference in
                 taste of coffee is like the difference in taste in wine.
                 It's a load of bs propogated by arbitrary connoiseurs trying
                 to market what basically is a drug. People don't drink coffee
                 for the taste, they drink it because they're addicted to
                 caffeine.
                 \_ and people who drink wine drink it because they're addicted
                    to alcohol?  grow up.
                    \_ strawman.  try again?
                       \_ just using your comparison.  Saying people don't
                          drink coffee for the taste is an utterly baseless
                          claim.
                          \_ It wasn't my comparison and you're still a
                             strawman whereas the person you strawmanned had
                             lots more to say which you ignored.  Now for my
                             personal take on it: coffee is vile and
                             disgusting.  It reeks.  It tastes bad.  The only
                             way someone could start coffee drinking is through
                             peer pressure and the only way to continue on to
                             that nasty "wakes me up in the morning" habit and
                             the X-many cups/day habit is caffeine addiction.
                             Try to stop drinking it without a caffeine sub.
                             You can't.  You'll go through caffeine withdrawl
                             and get sick until your body recovers.
              \_ It's a combination of the coffee bean, the roasting method,
                 the freshness of the grind, the water, how it was prepared,
                 and how long it's been sitting around. Decent coffee, like
                 many things, takes some effort. You can tell bad from good,
                 but most folks can't tell good from great. And there's
                 nothing wrong with that.
        \_ I guess it's the idea that like "real men go to local stores".  For
           example, "real handymen go to ACE Hardware instead of Home Depot",
           "real photographers go to Looking Glass instead of Ritz Camera".
                 \- real photographers buy over the net. this is generally
                    more about price and what is stocked. this is not a good
                    analogy.
                    \_ Not every real photographer is computer-literate.
           Something like that.  It gives them pride.
        \_ Because of the number of stores and it's distribution system,
           Starbuck's has less quality control than smaller stores. It does
           actually tastes worse than Peet's and a few of the smaller chains.
           That and their emphasis on pricey sugary milk/coffee combos means
           their coffee quality suffers.
        \_ "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, but every night all the men would
            come around and lay their money down."
        \_ Good use for a Starbucks:
           http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/08/141433.php
2002/3/25-26 [Recreation/Food, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:24221 Activity:very high
3/25    I've recently become vegetarian.  I'm wondering after 20+ years of
        eating meat, how long does it take for my body to clean out the
        meat-related toxins?  I've heard that our bowels often have
        undigested meat stuck in there.   Thanks.
        \_ meat?  Forget about that.  What about your marble?
           Pitchford.  I won't even begin to address the bunk below
           except to say that one of the many reasons that eating
           commercial slaughter is worse than eating even sprayed
           vegetables is that oil-based pesticides (and so many other
           toxins) bioaccumulate in the fat of the animal.
        \_ your gains as a veggie comes from less saturated fat and
           colesterol.  But you may just be trading for different toxins.
        \_ I've read that it takes anywhere from 2 to 10 days.
           \_ How about all of the gum I swallowed as a kid? Is that
              there too?
                \_ You need enemas.  Lots of enemas.  Mine more enemas.
        \_ So instead of meat toxins you're going to ingest all the chemicals
           that get sprayed on plants?  Good plan.  So what do you plan to
           replace all that protein with?
           \_ Do you think that they even wash animal feed to get the
              pesticides off?  Eating less meat reduces your exposure to
              chemicals.  -- not a veggie
              \_ Of course not, the bugs would crawl back in if they did that.
           \_ Organically grown plants don't get sprayed with chemcials.
              There are many grains/beans that have much higher protein
              content than meat.
              \_ That's not quite correct. Grains/beans are often incomplete
                 complete proteins, you have to learn how to mix and match
                 them so that you can get all the essential amino acids.
                 \_ Its not very hard to get the right mix.
                 \_ although some of the best grains (e.g., Quinoa, which
                    has more calcium than milk and more protein than
                    meat, and is very balnanced -- are NOT EVEN GRAINS!
                    they just look, taste and act like grains.  WOAH.
              \_ So I guess you're getting it from the bugs like the below
                 person says.  Whatever floats yer boat.  I'm guessing that
                 peanut butter will become a bigger part of your diet.  You'll
                 note peanut butter is heart clogging and will make you fat.
                 So are you going all the way and not eating honey either
                 because they 'abuse and exploit the bees by stealing their
                 honey and smoking their nests to steal it"?
                 \_ I'm not the original poster. I've been a vegetarian all
                    my life. I don't eat much peanut butter or honey (maybe
                    one or twice a year at most), mostly because it is too
                    sweet for my taste and not because of the "poor bees").
                    Grains and beans are a sufficient source of protein and
                    are not as fattening as meats.
                    BTW, I wash my food to clean off insects and dirt before
                    cooking. Perhaps this is a novel concept for you, oh
                    great hunter of wild beasts who eats the flesh of his
                    killing uncooked and uncleaned.
                    \_ So you don't care about the bees?  That's really
                       heartless and cruel.  Why do you wash off the bugs and
                       dirt?  They add flavor and important nutrients.  You
                       state you've been a vegetarian all your life as if that
                       grants you some sort of special dietary knowledge.  Ok,
                       I've been an omnivore all my life.  Does that grant me
                       special knowledge, too?  And what does any of this have
                       to do with "... oh great hunter of wild beasts who eats
                       the flesh of his killing uncooked and uncleaned"?  Nice
                       attempt at e190 quality poetry but it has nothing to do
                       with anything.  I suggest you stick with what you know,
                       beans and peanut butter.
                       \_ Vegetarians live longer healthier lives. Many
                          studies have shown this. Sorry to pop your holier
                          than thou bubble.
                          \_ And they get sand kicked in their face for
                             those extra 2-3 years.  Quality of life, man.
                             Nothing beats good lamb.
                             \_ well it's true they may have used a hatchet
                             \_ White veal, yum!
                          \_ True or not this is not a reply to anything I
                             said.  Why would you bother replying to me with
                             this statement?  You could have at least attempted
                             to reply to something I said.
                             \_ You said "what you are going to replace
                                all the protein with" and "you are going
                                to eat all those pesticides" as if being
                                a vegetarian was bad for your health. It
                                is not.
                                \_ Yes, and?
           \_ From the insects on the plants, of course.
        \_ A good first book would be Healing with Whole Foods by Paul
           Pitchford.  It's not a simple question to answer.  The
           main thing is to learn about proper nutrition and stick with it!
        \_ wallgrep -4 guardian (today.  -5 tomorrow.)
        \_ Good for you.
        \_ unless you were a carnivorous plant before, you will always
           contain meat-related toxins.  your body makes them.
        \_ I heard your bowels contain as much as 5 lbs of undigested raw meat
           which, in time, will rot and grow maggots and oh my!
        \_ http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4369605,00.html
          \_ OK, I'll bite - where around here can you do this?
             \_ lol
             \_ I'm sure you can find someone in SF willing to help.
             \_ i read about them first at: giant robot (ISSUE #22...
                "Haruki Murakami, Cambodia, Cambodian Shop Signs,
                Getting a colonic, and more.  $6.00")  i dont remember
                the details, but i think the guy was in l.a. and the
                people who gave him the colonic were korean, so you
                could probably find a place in the bay area.
2002/2/16 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:23884 Activity:nil
2/15    Woman performs TJ Hooker stunt.  Saves beer.
        http://www.msnbc.com/local/wyff/A1078665.asp
        \_ Dude, she died! That's horrible.
           \_ But she saved the beer!
2002/1/29-31 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:23701 Activity:high
1/31    Three King Cake parties this week!  This is a Berkeley tradition
        culminating in a chaotic parade throughout Berkeley on Fat Tuesday
        (February 12 this year). Costumes encouraged!  Food, cake and drink
        provided (homemade organic beer and wine too) but bring somethin'
         1) TODAY!!! 1/31 7 PM 2522 Piedmont #7, theme: GODZILLA AND THE
            MASSES (bring your own skyscraper, green feet encouraged)
         2) Fri. 2/1 7 PM 2185 Acton at Addison, theme: ALIENS, LIVESTOCK
            & AMERICA THE MIDDLE
         3) Sat. 2/2 8 PM 2951 California (just north of Ashby), theme:
            DRESS AS YOUR FAVORITE CONSTELLATION
         4) Tuesday 2/5, all-day cooking & gardening work party, Humanist
            Hall, 411-28th St. Oakland btwn Brdwy & Telegraph, 11 AM on
            (bands at 7:30 PM, music all day)
        \_ This sounds like something a bunch of losers would do.
           \_ Yea, almost as bad as pointing pointless, contentless,
              worthless flames on the motd. But not quite. That's reserved
              for the _true_ loser...
              \_ Wow, that's like so, recursive.
        \_ Okay, I'll bite.  What's a King Cake party?
2001/12/10-11 [Health, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:23203 Activity:kinda low
12/9    There's a malt drink in Germany called "Karamalz" or something like
        that.  It's not alcoholic and I heard it's very healthy.  Well
        healthier than drinking coke/pepsi at least.  Anybody know the
        exact name?  I'm trying to see if I can get it here in the states.
        \_ Kaiserdom Club-Malz?  http://www.germandeli.com/4004591065048.html
        \_ Is that the fermented horse's pubic hairs I've been hearing about?
2001/11/21 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:23065 Activity:moderate
11/21   What does it mean when a person responds to an email or newsgroup
        posting and include everything the previous person wrote, but adds
        no response?  It's so annoying. And I don't think it was done by
        mistake.
        \_ you should cc: sef@kithrup.com for added excitement
        \_ It's *THE* most offensive thing another usenet poster or email
           sender can do.  You should go all usenet jihad on their ass and turn
           the whole thing into an endless multi-year flamefest and get the
           police, FBI and each other's employeres, universities and ISPs into
           it, because, ya know, hey, it's usenet, it must be important.
           \_ HEY! it IS important. where else do you go for the latest
              pics of britney's nipple?!?
           \_ Dude, it's a serious question.  I didn't start a flamewar
              over that.  I asked the guy who did that and he didn't respond.
              I'm curious just what exactly does that mean?  Does it mean
              "hey everybody I've read this and I want you to know".
              \_ It was a serious answer.  It means *nothing*.  Get over it.
                 Move on.  Let it go.  It isn't important.  COLLEGE STUDENT!
        \_ They are practicing Zen posting where they reflect what was
           written and demonstrates it means everything. But they are on the
           wrong path. This path leads only to beer. Beer leads to liquor.
           Liquor leads to karaoke. Karaoke leads to suffering.
           \_ I don't know about you, but for me, liquor leads to a bottle
              of 30 yr scotch, a cigar, and two ho's next to me on my leather
              couch.  Train harder, young grasshopper.
2001/9/21 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:22563 Activity:nil
9/20    Overseen on internal mailing list at work (seems oddly appropriate
        given the nature of the earlier motd discussions) :

        If you bought $1000 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it
        would now be worth $49.
        If you bought $1000 worth of Budweiser (the beer, not the
        stock) one year ago, drank all the beer, and traded in the
        cans for the nickel deposit, you would have $79.
        My advice to you is to start drinking heavily and recycle.
        \_ That's very funny! :-)
        \_ If I didn't drink any beer I'd have $1000 instead of $79
2001/9/18 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:36331 Activity:nil
9/18    Anyone listen to trance/techno/house/electronica in the morning?  Its so
        awful.  Just like Beer and Cold Pizza in the morning.
2001/9/7 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:22342 Activity:moderate
9/6     See the chocolate industry do their best to convince you chocolate is
        good for you:
        http://www.cocoapro.com/nutrition/current.html
        \_ GOD DAMN the Chocolate Industry!!11!1
           They will pay for their sick, twisted ways in BL00D!!1
           \_ can we sue them for knowing that excessive chocolate is not
              only addictive but also makes you fat and clogs up your artery?
              it is a health risk that people need to be more concerned about
        \_ "A chocolate bar, such as SNICKERS(R) or DOVE(R) Dark, has between
           two and three grams of protein."  I assume they mean from the
           chocolate... I'd hope all of the peanuts in a snickers have more
           than that....
           \_ I used to work with this redneck who would always hold up his
              beer and say "this is one porkchop right here!"
2001/8/23-24 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:22227 Activity:high
8/23    as for the napa comment-winetasting in livermore >> winetasting in napa.
        Wineries there are free, they are not rude, they are not all just
        trying to cater to billionaire eurotrash.
        \_ It's not hard to find free wine (V. Settui comes to mind), and I've
           never encountered a rude person in all the wineries I've been to.
           - Baron Karl Geunter Goebbels III
        \_ Rude is charging $2 for a taste of your lowest grade vino.
        \_ concannon vineyards in livermore is free, and has pretty good syrah.
                        \_ shiraz?
        \_ It is very difficult to find vineyards who give free tastings
           nowadays. On a recent trip to Napa, I checked out over 5 vineyards
           who _used_ to give free tastings, and now they all charge. -nivra
        \_ I've been told that almost none of the wineries in Sonoma
            \_ That's correct.  -crebbs
           charge for tasting.  - mikeym
2001/7/14 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:21798 Activity:insanely high
7/13    What are the restaurants/food places you miss most from UC Berkeley?
        \_ Chez Panisse. Honey wine at the Ethiopian restaurant (Blue Nile?)
           \_ Wasn't this place extrodinarily overpriced for small portions?
           \_ My sole experience with Blue Nile involved cockroaches.
        \_ Santa Fe Bar and Grill, TC Garden, and Yokohama Station.
        \_ There used to be this place in Durant Square commonly referred to
           as "The Greasy Burger Place".
                \_ Originally that was Nation's - until sometime in the
                   early 90's.
                   \_ and then it became Golden Bear Burger before it
                      disappeared
        \_ flint's
           \_ where and what kind of food?
              \_ bbq on shattuck
           \_ didn't they close down?  flint's on south san pablo was better
              before it burned.
        \_ barney's
           \_ where and what kind of food?
              \_ shitty, dry, and overpriced hamburgers
                \_ well you CAN ask for the medium rare which helps a lot
                   \_ The last time I went there, I did, but was told that
                      they can't cook it any rarer than medium.  I haven't
                      been back since.  God save anyone who orders a well-
                      done Barney's burger.
                      \_ I thought they just wouldn't do rare...
                \_ They didn't _use_ to be this way.  And their milkshakes
                   actually used to be generous.  Ah.. the old days.
        \_ zach's
        \_ intermezzo
        \_ that korean bbq place and japanese snacks in same location
           \_ steve's house of charred meat?
           \_ I miss it for the H07 4ZN CH1X I used to eat there with.
        \_ do people miss sun hong kong?  I know, the food isn't that great,
           but do you miss it anyway?
           \_ I miss it for the H07 42N CH1X I used to eat there with.
                                \_ 5P3111NG C0RR3C73D
                                    \_ 5P3111NG C0RR3C73D [ 4ZN -> 42N ]
           \_ i only miss the mongolian beef chow fun and the seafood chow fun
           \_ I miss being able to get jook at 1:45 AM. -oj
           \_ yeah, open till 3am.
              BTW, there is a restaurant or two open near Ranch 99 pretty
              late.
              \_ have you tried the food at CSP? well, at least they're open
                 pretty late
              \_ Which Ranch 99?
                 \_ the one near Central Ave. off highway 80.
           \_ It's truly amazing how far that place fell considering
              how reasonable it was when it first opened.
        \_ fat slice and bongo burger (they had cheap yet decent tasting falafel)
           \_ bongo rocks.  was in the area a short time ago.  just had to stop
              in for old time's sake.
              \_ Bongo kicks ass!
                \_ Bongo burgers #1!
        \_ Anyone ever missed Stuffed Inn?
                \_ yes! I also miss Top Dog and reasonably priced crepe places.

                   and La Mediteranee (the Berkeley one is way better than the
                   SF ones), Nakapan, Cheese Board Pizza, and of course Zach's.
                \_ Yes & High Tech Burritto
                         \_ In four years of school, I never once ate at
                            High Tech. I regret it because my brother and
                            his friends keep telling me how good (and cheap)
                            it is.
                       half the salary. for a while anyway.
           \_ Stuffed was OK, but I actually liked the sandwiches from Seven
              Thieves on the corner even better.  Their seeded rolls are
              just amazingly tasty.
        \_ i miss IB's Hoagies and La Burrita. LB because it was so cheap and
           decent and open late, and IB's because it was cheap (at first neway)
           and it's not easy to find that type of hoagie. What's a good hoagie
           place in south bay? the one in mccarthy ranch doesn't cut it.
           \_ if you want good hoagies all the time, cheap , move to
              the east coast.  you will quickly realize, however that you
              have been screwd badly as far as fast food goes, though
              since all burritos are about ten dollars and totally suck.
              \_ What's a hoagie?
                 \_ hoagie == grinder == sub == hero;  regional differences
           \_ Yeah I miss La Burrita. It was cheap and had decent food. Best
              of all it was across the street from Bongo Burger. So I could
              have one for lunch and one for dinner.
                 \_ man, you peasants ate some shitty food in your time
                    at Berkeley.  Me...?  I miss little Chicago deep dish
                    pizza in its prime as a competitor to Zachary's.
                    Tasty deep dish, and cheaper than Zach's too.  It's
                    still there on University, but they've gone downhill.
                    Don't know about West Coast pizza as a favorite
                    late night delivery hole (they operate out of the same
                    kitchen).
                    ahh...the good old days.  and not so long ago.
                    working life, aside from the money, hella sucks,
                    don't you all think?
                    \_ well it's not so much the working life, but more that
                       i have to actually pay for everything and hence work.
                       i work more than i want to...tech jobs are hard to do
                       part time. i wish i could just work half the time for
                       half the salary. for a while anyway. that would rock.
                       or even 60%...3 days work, 4 days off
                       \_ Your wife might not appreciate your lackadaisical
                          ways, especially if it affects the amount of alimony
                          she gets after the divorce.
                   \_ Too much pizza is *very* unhealthy as I discovered
                      sophomore year. That's when I switched to La Burrita
                      and Bongo Burger. They were about all I could afford
                      as I was working to put myself through school.
                      As far as working is concerned, I rather like it, but
                      I've probably been quite lucky (I was with cisco during
                                         \_ before my time, $0.99 for one
                                            slice of cheese was the cheapest
                                            I remember (I guess its sub one
                                            dollar)
                      the boom years and one of the companies I worked for
                      was acquired by sun) so I haven't developed a dislike
                      for working.
                      \- anyone miss Heidelberg [chinese-german]? i guess i
                      miss the silver ball and the comic book store that was
                      across the street. how can you seriously miss sun hk or
                      la burrita? i miss sub one dollar arnell's slices. --psb
                                         \_ before my time, $0.99 coupon for
                                            a slice of cheese at Fat Slice
                                            is the cheapest I can remember.
                                            (I guess it is technically sub
                                            one dollar)
                                            \_ it's hard to jusdge inflation
                                               by fatslice prices, since i
                                               think they only increase in
                                               25 cent increments.
                      \_ That's like over 15 years ago! Sheesh, youre OLD.
                         \_ Old Motd Saying: PSB is older than OCFs equipment
        \_ what about those baked potato huts on sproul plaza?  Do they still
           have those today?
        \_ I'm surprised no one has mentioned Fat Slice or Blondie's.
           \_ Fat Slice is mentioned above (along with Bongo Burger)
           \_ You are?
           \_ My sole experience with Blondie's happened the second
              day of freshman year. I was about to walk into Blondie's
              when I bumped into my cousin. I asked her if she wanted
              get a slice of pizza at this place and she said she
              didn't care much for cockroach as a topping. I never
              set foot in that place. Years later I was told by a
              friend that he found a cockroach shell in a slice of
              pizza from Blondie's and I was glad I never ate there.
        \_ Top Dog... also Misha's from Durant Square (back when they served
           their spicy chicken sandwich)
2001/2/12-13 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:20573 Activity:very high
2/12    I am so screwed!  I'm calling around, trying to make dinner
        plans for Valentines day, and everything is booked.  Is it
        completely hopeless or can I save our relationship?
        \_ if you need to wine and dine your GF to "save" the relationship,
           then it's probably not worth saving.  Cooking for her is much much
           more meaningful.  Even if you can't cook a decent meal, the gesture
           is something she will remember.
           \_ by "cook", we mean candlelit dinner, silverware, several
              courses -- not incandescents, TV blaring in the background,
              Napster downloads on your counterstrike server.  I hope
              most sodans already knew this, but ...
        \_ Get married, it will solve all your problems.
                \_ Dump her today.  Get back together on Thursday.
                   Take her out then.
        \_ I'll take her out, I can get reservations
        \_ You couldn't get reservations even two weeks ago. Plan earlier
           next time. BTW, the cooking thing is a good idea.
           \_ I was actually able to walk into a place that was reasonably
              nice last year.
        \_ Try Trattoria la Siciliana on College, they had space left
           when I checked on Saturday.  Also, I just cancelled my
           reservation at Mazzani Trattoria on Telegraph--decided to
           cook instead.
        \_ You're doomed.  Give it up or get married.
        \_ Lyon's or Olive Garden  :P
2000/10/24 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:19553 Activity:nil
10/23   Can somebody recommend a fancy vegetarian restaurant in the bay area?
        I'm looking for something like Chez Pannese but 100% vegetarian.
        Thanks.
        \_ Long Life Vegi House in Berkeley (assuming it's still
           there) is not quite as fancy as Chez Pannise and they also
           serve seafood...but it's _damn_ good.  --recovering vegan
           \_ you know, all those poeple who like long life vegi house
              must have been beaten as kids.  The food is bland and
              unispired, even the pure vegi dishes.  It is true white boy
              chinese food.
              \_ I've observed that many "vegi" only restaurants serve
                 the most bland food on the planet and look at you as
                 if you are a grotesque sea monster from a black lagoon
                 on mars if you ask them for red pepper or hot sauce.
                 I find it frustrating to eat americanized "vegi" food.
                 - indian who is glad to have home cooking
        \_ it's pretty hard to be a vegan epicurean...
           \_ it's not very hard to be a fucking moron -pld
                \_ Gosh that was a useful comment.
              \_ case in point?
        \_ Consider yourself invited Chez Moi. I'm not professionally
           trained or anything but I'm not a bad cook and I love having
           vegetarians for dinner. -seano
              \_ You eat vegetarians for dinner! Damn I thought there
                 was a law against that.
                 \_ Actually, I prefer vegan meat; for breakfast and cold
                    cuts... but all vegetarians go well with a compliment of
                    asparagus bordelaise and a crisp sauvignon blanc. -seano
                    \_ the joke was funny until you explained it
                    \_ Interesting. Soda's own Jeffery Damlher.
                        \_ He didn't exclude women from his invite list....
                        \_ is he like Jeffrey Dahmer?
           \_ and the nice smell of rotting food adds so much to the ambience
        \_ I heard of a restaurant called Green's.  Don't know if it still
           exists or not.  It might be in SF.
           \_ Yes, Greens. Don't go anywhere else. It's in SF (Fort
              Mason). Fleur De Lys is also reputed to have a good vegetarian
              tasting menu according to Zagat. --dim
              \_ Fleur de Lys is a pretty damn good restaurant
        \_ Never been to Greens, but I have a copy of their cookbook,
           VERY yummy food, but note, Greens has absolutely NOTHING
           whatsoever to do with being healthy.  A nice lean steak
           is probably healthier than many of their dishes.
        \_ Millenium - in the ground floor of some hotel in SF.  (Almost vegan,
           but has some dishes with cheese and/or honey.)
           \_ millenium is for the hard core vegetarian or vegan.  it rocks
              if you hate meat.  in the abigail hotel on mcallister near
              van ness --chris
              \_ What does hating meat have to do with begin vegetarian?
                 - vegetarian who does not hate meat, but rather choses
                   not to eat it.
                 \_ i meant if you hate meat, you'll like millenium.  it's
                    almost all vegan, they have seitan, tofu galore...so if
                    you like the taste of meat, the meat substitutes won't
                    make you too happy. --chris
                    \_ I like the taste of meat and think meat substitutes
                       are disgusting.  Any vegitarian who eats those things
                       should stop being stupid and just eat meat once
                       in a while.  If you are gonna be vegi do it right and
                       eat stuff that isn't pretending.  IT TASTES BETTER.
                        \_ just for reference, i eat vegi fake meat because
                           i like it, not because i hate meat or because i
                           want to replace it.  in fact, i've never tasted
                           red meat before, unless you count the bologna i
                           accidentally ate once when i was little that made
                           me violently ill.  -lila
                           \_ hey, kind of like those peas i choked on
                              that accidentally rolled next to my porterhouse
                              when i was 9...
                                \_ no, not really
                       \_ Okay, its obvious that my comment was misunderstood.
                          I'm a vegetarian who doesn't eat "meat" substitutes.
                          I've always had a vegetarian diet (indian), but I
                          don't hate meat and I'm not a member of PETA or
                          anything stupid like that. I think that one should
                          be free to choose to eat meat or not. There is no
                          point in heckling people over their choice.
                          \_ I don't think chris was saying vegetarians
                             explicitly "hate meat." i think she said you had
                             to be a vegetarian who hated meat to like
                             and really appreciate millenium
        \_ saw a bumper sticker: "I Love Animals. They taste delicious"
           \_ Another: "If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he
              make them out of meat?"
              \_ reminds me of the Far Side cartoons tofu gazelles while
                 the Lions looked on.
        \_ Green's is a good suggestion. You may also want to try Joubet's
           at the end of the N Judah line. Vegetarian French-South African
           cusine.
2000/7/18-19 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:18704 Activity:very high
7/17    What is that restraurant on top of Bank of America in the city
        called?  thx.
        \_ the Carnelian Room, http://www.carnelianroom.com
           \_ Thanks.  Any ideas on whether it's overrated?
              \_ way overrated. ate there with my family. We all had
                diarrhea afterwards.
             \_ It depends how much you want to pay for a view.
        \_ the Dresden Room, http://www.thedresden.com
          \_ The Carnelian Room restaurant won't let you in without a
             jacket and tie, a policy I find unacceptable.  Go to the
             bar if you want the view.  -tom
                \-by and large avoid restaurants that move. this is a
                high school prom kind of place. if you want good food, go
                elsewhere. --psb
                        \_ The one of top of BofA building doesn't rotate
                                -muchandr
                                        \-"move or have a view" --psb
                \_ You don't own a jacket and tie?  What the hell is wrong
                   with you?
                   \_ Whether I own them or not is irrelevant.  Whether a
                      business that I am planning to give far too much money
                      to for dinner *requires* me to wear them is the issue.
                        \_ You miss the point.  It is thus: by making a dress
                           code requirement, even one so minimal as jacket and
                           tie, they can more easily keep out the riff raff and
                           the few who get confused and show with jacket/tie
                           anyway, at least won't be a complete embarassment
                           and can be stuck in the back near the kitchen.  By
                           not dining at this sort of place... well nevermind.
                           \_ i've never seen a riff raff at a restaurant.
                              just old (or chinese) people with really bad
                              manners. this reason seems bogus.
                                \_ Ahem.  Cough.
                        \_ you forget rule #1 of conspicous consumption:
                           try to consume out of your league.  dress codes
                           protect he consumers' delicate sensibilities
                           from the horror of the tide of humanity being
                           able to afford the same pleasures as they.
                                \_ I like being protected from the horror of
                                   the tide of humanity.  That's easy to spout
                                   off about form your dorm room's high speed
                                   line.  Go out and see it sometime and get
                                   back to us.
                                        \- this is another "center of the
                                        universe" problem. let a thousand
                                        restaurants bloom ... carnelian room
                                        wants to have a dress code, let them.
                                        the food sucks and i will go to
                                        boulevard which has better food and
                                        let me in with shorts and flipflops
                                        and a tshirt. the ritz carlton dining
                                        room has good enough food to have been
                                        jump through sartorial hopps to dine
                                        there. --psb
2000/4/23-24 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:18089 Activity:insanely high
4/22    What good restaurants in SF do people recommend?
                \- is this a serious question? are you looking for "deals"
                or the best restaurants in town? taqueria san jose ($5)is a
                good deal. acquarello is the best italian place in town ($100)
                and pastis is a nice place in the middle ($50). there's a
                start. --psb
           \_ Cha Cha Cha on haste is really good cuban/jamacan food,
              on Haste near golden gate park.  Long lines and no reservations,
              however, so go on a weekday.  The best Ice Cream is Joe's Old
              Fashoned Ice Cream on 18th and Geary.  -nweaver
      \_ How about "Thirsty Bear" on Howard/Hawthorne?  Does anyone have
         any commments on that place?
              \- is this a serious question? are you looking for "deals"
              or the best restaurants in town? taqueria san jose ($5)is a
              good deal. acquarello is the best italian place in town ($100)
              and pastis is a nice place in the middle ($50). there's a
              start. --psb
              \_ Italian in Northern California sucks compared to the stuff
                 you can get on the east coast, which, in turn, sucks
                 compared to the stuff you can get in Italy. -dans
                      \-have you been to acquarello? otherwise what is the
                      relevance? i think this generalization usually applies
                      most to low to medium "end" places. --psb
                 \_ this coming from a man who thinks House Of Nanking is
                    the best Chinese in SF.
         \_ Cha Cha Cha on haste is really good cuban/jamacan food,
            on Haste near golden gate park.  Long lines and no reservations,
            however, so go on a weekday.  The best Ice Cream is Joe's Old
                 people's place.  Food is best when it's a communal experience.
            Fashoned Ice Cream on 18th and Geary.  -nweaver
           \_ a second Cha Cha Cha's has opened in the Mission,
              same food without the lines
              \_ no way, man! Mitchell's on Guerrero.
      \_ House of Nanking.  IMHO, the best Chinese food in SF.  The
              \_ Bwahaha!  Maybe cuz yer gwailow.
         ambiance isn't too great (i.e. non-existent), but the food more
         than makes up for it.  Afterwards, wander (literally) around the
         corner to Little Italy(i.e. North Beach), and get desert at The
         Steps of Rome (overly trendy, always busy, but tasty).  Stop at
         City Lights bookstore on the way if you so desire.  Makes for a
         nice evening out. -dans
         \_ Sucker!  You enjoy standing in line to get herded into a cramped
            little hole that serves shitty, bland, tastes of generic sauces
            food?  Look at the crowd sometime.  Notice how it is 100% white.
            there is a reason.  HoN may once have been good, I dunno.  But
            if so that was a LONG time ago.
            \_ Name something better.  Have a cookie, troll.  While you're
               at it, sign yer name, twink. -dans
                      \_ I like seeing trolls like dans use my "have a
                         cookie line".  Gives me the warm fuzzies all over.
                         Tinglies up my spine.  --fellow troll
               P.S. I like cramped dining.  You get to eat off of other
               peoples' plates. Food is best when it's a communal experience.
               And even though your statement about the crowd being 100%
               white is flat out wrong, it doesn't carry much weight?  What,
               white folks aren't allowed to have good taste in food?
                      \-Eric's chinese, an otherwise pretty good restaurant,
                      totally screwed up a dish once and when an associate of
                      mine inquired was told "white people like it that way"
                      [this was clearly a fuckup ... there was so much pepper
                      in the dish, nobody could possibly "like it that way.
                      although the conversation took place in chinese, given
                      that 3/6 people at the table were white, you had to
                      wonder if the staff person thought the "explanation"
                      would not be translated for whitey]. --psb
                      \-Eric's Chinese, ton kiang. --psb
                \_  let me guess, you are from Orange County aren't you?
                \_  My Chinese friends told me that my taste in Chinese food
                    is like that of white folks.  What does that mean?
                    They seem to think that this is funny. - confused Chinese
                      \_ You have lousy taste in food.  Take the hint.
                              --white boy who prefers real chinese food
         \_ re: Thirsty Bear. It's a tapas bar/brew pub. The food is ok and
          reasonably priced; the beer is quite good (esp. their wheat beer).
          It's now a SoMa hang out, so it's very crowded Thurs-Sat eve.
2000/4/5 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Health/Disease/General] UID:17920 Activity:nil
4/4     http://www.milksucks.com/beersurvey.html
2000/3/27-28 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:17865 Activity:high
3/27    First donuts.  Then pizza.  What other college food groups
        (aside from Beer) are we missing?
        \_ YerMom.
        \_ Chocolate.  Scharffen Berger opened a factory in Berkeley.
                \_ never thought of chocolate as a college food group
                   (Stereotype warning): I guess because I'm a male
                   who doesn't crave chocolate.
        \_ burritos?  top dog hot dogs?  Greasy northside food?
2000/2/25-26 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:17624 Activity:kinda low
2/25  What's the deal with the cronicle's almost daily articles about
      "Hip young twentysomething dot-commers?"  There is a particularly
      hilarious one today...
        \_ what link exactly?

\_http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/02/25/MN47093.DTL&type=food
        \_ Jealousy.  Remember, these are late 30-something baby boomers who
           missed out on their own generation's prosperity.  Maybe not so much
           jealousy per se as a longing for what they missed out on in their
           own lives.
                \_ No, it's just that Michael Bauer is an insipid cretin.
                                                                -John
        \_ Essentially, all the interesting web/net stuff took place at least
           five years ago.  But it wasn't until the creation of the web that
           any of the baby boomers took notice.  And it wasn't until the
           creation of the web that any of the non-tech saavy Gen Xers (read
           business types) started trying to sell shit on the web.  All the
           tech folks knew it couldn be done, they just didn't think it was
           an interesting problem so they didn't.  Once the the bizbots
           flooded the web, it turned into something that baby boomers could
           appreciate, if not understand.  For a particularly revolting
           article that highlights a) Baby Boomer fascination with essentially
           lame web stuff, and b) Yet another lame net startup backed by a
           bizbot that hasn't done anything either technologically interesting
           or economically feasible, check out the article "Hey, I Just Work
           Here" in this month's issue of WIRED.  Also, note that, since
           WIRED's purchase by Conde Nast, it has gone from a sometimes
           technologically inept, but usually interesting and usually written
           with the right idea magazine to a consistently technologically
           inept, rarely interesting, and usually written with the wrong idea
           to begin with magazine. -dans
           \_ What I found funny was the implication that everyone who eats
             in these fancy rest. are "millionaires" or whatever, and not
              overworked corp slaves who get off work at 9-10p every night
              and are too zombified to do anything else but shove food in
              their face...
        \_ How times a month do many post-undergrad CSUA go to
                fine restaurants?
                \_ I got roughly once a week.  -post-ugrad CSUA
                \_ I go out at least once a week, usually twice. -ugrad CSUA
1999/12/18-21 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:17064 Activity:low
12/17   Are there any delivery services, like takeout taxi, that deliver
        food from vairous restaurants around Berkeley?  Anyone have a
        phone number or URL? -forest
        \_ Dominos.
        \_ Waiters on Wheels?  Not so sure it serves Berkeley though.
                http://www.waitersonwheels.com
        \_ I found this: http://www.slip.net/~john/delivery  -forest
        \_ http://www.food.com http://www.dine.com  we've used http://dine.com, it takes
           a long time, but it gets done, sure beats driving across town
           to pick up food.  http://food.com was recommended to me by a respected
           coworker, we have yet to try it out. --chris
           \_ good thing is wasn't referred by a loathsome coworker.
1999/11/30-12/1 [Transportation/Car, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:16975 Activity:low
11/30   Does anyone know what the steaming factory next to the West Oakland
        BART station does?  During morning commute hours there's often a very
        strong alcohol-like smell near there, so strong that if I forget to
        turn off the A/C in my car when I drive by there, my car will be filled
        with that smell within seconds.
        \_ It's West Oakland's natural scent (the smell of gangs and cronies)
        \_ They produce cyanide ther for the medical industry.
        \_ They produce cyanide there for the medical industry.
        \_ alcohol-like smell?  probably baking bread for the day...
        \_ They produce high-test malt liquor for the indigenous population.
1999/9/9-10 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:16493 Activity:moderate
9/9     Friend coming to SF area, is interested in going to Napa Valley.
        What is a good place to go for free wine, good food, good
        atmosphere? How do I get there? Thanks.
        \_ in Napa, they're rude, and will charge you nearly everywhere
        for wine.  $2/taste at Domain Chandon, $5 for a barrel sample
        at Silveroak.  it sucks.  Go to Sonoma - they like you being there,
        traffic is lighter, and tastings are generally free or the
        fee is rarely collected. -jor
        \_ carmel valley. less traffic, less crowds, just as good wine.
                \- go to AAA and get their wine maps. those have hours and
                and whether tastings are free. if you are not a snob,go
                to VI Sattui ... you can taste like 6 or 7 wines with a
                lot of sugar for free. --psb
1999/9/6 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:16474 Activity:nil
9/6     BBQ right now at 1419 Alcatraz (near Sacramento).
        Beer, food, and people are already here.
1998/4/13 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol, Recreation/Food] UID:13939 Activity:high
4/12    My gf's birthday is coming up and I want to do the most
        romantic thing ever done for her.  Ideas anyone?
        \_ give her... "the greatest love act of all."
        \_ Have dinner (McDonalds) at the CSUA lounge.
            \_THE GUY SAID ROMANTIC!! so make sure you super-size...
        \_ Watch a porno together and then you and some friend gang bang her
        \_ The Fully Monty!
        \_ Take her to Jerry Springer show!
        \_ One night with me, it doesn't get more romantic...
                \-well, i dont think there is a very large kernel of
        stuff that are "universally" considered romanitc buy women. except
        diamonds, due to the DeBeers conspiracy. anyway, i think you have
        to ask a more pointed question like "know a good place for a picnic"
        know a good restaurant in SF" etc. --psb, your romance counselor.
        \_ There are like websites and stuff. Search for romantic idea
                                                        -muchandr
        \_ Asking for romantic advice on the motd?  MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!  But
           seriously, I'd suggest something involving food and a getaway.
           Mostly depending on your budget.  EG, cheap:  A nice picnic
           somewhere around the area (I personally like the Sonoma coastline.)
           Somewhat more expensive:  A fancy, but not too fancy resteraunt.
           Really fancy:  Some quaint little bed & breakfast combined with
           a really fancy resteraunt.
1998/3/4 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:13757 Activity:nil
3/4     Support the smoking ban!
          The smoking ban is an unreasonable peice of legislation. It
          is a ban. That means that there are no exceptions no matter
          what. The next step is to ban smoking in any room containing
          more than ten people where alcohol is served because that is
          just like a bar. Even if it is your home or workplace.-nesim
          \_ The ban does have exceptions: namely when the bar is operated
             entirely by the owners.  If you want to die from second-hand
             smoke, you're free to do so.  You're not allowed to have working
             conditions that force your employees to do the same.
          \_ sounds sensible. you're not one of those nasty smokers, by
             chance?
         \_ the difference between alcohol and smoking is smoking affect
            other people, where as alcohol doesn't.
                \_ How many drunk drivers kill people every year?
        \_ I am sick and tired of people smoke in public areas. If I
           died of 2nd hand smoking, I will come back as a ghost and
           take a fucking smoker with me.
                \_ Just one?
        \_ Bars aren't public places. Even without smoking they are pretty
           bad for your health.
1994/6/12 [Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:31623 Activity:nil
6/12    I might do another pizza-beer-cosmic-encounter thing at my place
        again, although i cant promise i'll be able to get to the store and
        get more beer. send mail if you are itnerestd for sunday early eve,
        and i'll keep you posted. --psb
1993/8/10 [Reference/BayArea, Recreation/Food/Alcohol] UID:31382 Activity:nil
8/7     I'm looking for a good liquor store in Berkeley/Oakland/SF
        that carries reasonably expensive imported wines and other
        sorts of stuff.  You know, the kind with snooty cashiers.
        If you know of one, let me know or something.  --blojo
        \-seriously, liquor barn in albany is actually pretty good. --psb
        \-if its snooty wines you want, theres a wine store right near
          Chez Panisse up on Shattuck. --karlb
        \-there are quite a few good quality, reasonably priced wines
          at Whole Foods (at the corner of Ashby and Telegraph). --ausman
        \- Also a wine merchant or two on San Pablo, near Gilman I think -payam
2018/11/15 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/15   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Recreation:Food:Alcohol:
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