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| 11/23 |
| 2004/7/9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:32196 Activity:nil |
7/8 This is amusing.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39347 |
| 2004/6/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:30712 Activity:high |
6/9 Here is something I don't understand. In USA, people kept bitching
about China's Tiananmen Square. The most illustrated photo was the
guy who stands at front of tanks. Just past month, Israeli tank
actualy *FIRED* the artilary shell at demonstrators, yet I don't heard
anything about people bitching about it. Why?
\_ you mean the terrorist hiding behind those kids?
\_ hello ilyas. Logic doesn't work in the real world.
\_ what makes you think this is ilyas?
\_ wow, you really don't know ilyas. i've never heard him say
_anything_ anti-israel.
\_ Hi. It's not that I think Israel can do no wrong, it's that
people don't appreciate the strain Israeli society is under.
Imagine gigantic Oklahoma-city style bombs going off in the US
every week due to Mexicans who want California back. That
would be a comparable situation. (This probably doesn't
need to be stated, but I am not op. Duh.) -- ilyas
\_ Well, Israel doesn't have Oklahoma-city style bombs going
off every week. Most of them are small scale. They also
have been and are still actively in the process of land
settlement/population transfer activities and military
occupation. Your analogy thus falls rather short IMO.
\_ Israel is much smaller than the US. Israel is tiny.
Larger countries can absorb more shock. I think you
may be rejecting the analogy because it makes it seem
like Israel is in terrible duress, and has been for
many years. Sadly, I think that's precisely the case.
As far as the military occupation is concerned -- you are
right. You have to understand though, that Israel is
_still_ at war with some of its neighbors (Syria).
Almost any pullout move on their part results in
their enemies growing bolder (remember the aftermath
of the Lebanon pullout). The situation there is so
messy, I don't really know what I would do in their
shoes. The IDF operates under the assumption the
palestinians and surrounding arab states work towards
destruction of Israel. I don't blame the IDF for
thinking this. -- ilyas
\_ Thinking? It's the stated, in writing, Palestinian
policy to destroy Israel as their ultimate goal. Not
having their own contiguous nation, not having peace,
not a bogus right of return. Destruction of Israel
is their goal. They not only don't try to hide it,
they trumpet the fact at every opportunity. Western
pro-Palestinian media simply ignores it and fails to
report the giant pink elephant standing in the middle
of the Middle East cocktail party.
\_ there was a discussion a few days ago. See the motd archives.
\_ The tank fired at a house, it detonated early on a pole in the
way, the shrapnel killed a bunch of people (kids too). The
Tiananmen Square people didn't have suicide bombers, all of their
supporters are unarmed, and never killed any pro-government people.
\_ And today the Europeans will suck their own cocks to get in bed
with China but all hope Israel dies and goes away so they can
get back to business as usual. |
| 2004/6/7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:30648 Activity:moderate |
6/5 According to the International Association of Travel Professionals,
the most annoying tourists are from: Nigeria, Israel, Switzerland
(from Conde Nast).
\_ and according all the polls around the world, the most annoying
tourists are from US of A where their only hint of having any
culture is eating and farting yogurt. |
| 11/23 |
| 2004/5/19-20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:30310 Activity:very high |
5/19 If you wonder why the Arab world hates the U.S., and Americans don't
know why:
"But by Wednesday evening, the images out of Gaza, where Israeli
soldiers had fired on a demonstration of Palestinians, were so violent
that the guilty plea of Specialist Sivits, who admitted to taking part
in abuse at Abu Ghraib prison, received only secondary coverage on the
main Arab satellite channels." -NY Times
These kinds of images: http://csua.org/u/7dg
\_ He doesn't like you. I don't like you either.
\_ I'll be careful.
\_ you'll be dead!
\_ You're saysing Arab world hates US because of Israel?
\_ You're questioning Bush's unique support of Israel?
\_ I'm not questioning anything, I'm just trying to figure
out what the op is saying.
\_ Of course the only sane and civil thing to do is kill all Jews.
\_ JOKE FUNNY! |
| 2004/5/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:30304 Activity:high |
5/19 Irony is Dead(tm) headline for the day:
"Bush to Israel: Show Restraint, Respect Innocent Life"
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5195239
\_ This deserves two w00ts: w00t! w00t!
\_ Isn't that three w00ts?
\_ This sentence contains one sentence.
\_ A sentence cannot contain any sentence.
\_ The sentence, "The sentence, 'This is a sentence.' is
true." contains a sentence.
\_ Don't make me write out the sentence 'I am not true'
in fully unabbreviated form. -- ilyas
\_ Period should be a comma before the end quote.
\_ That was intentional. That grammar rule is
illogical and I refuse to obey it.
\_ Ah! I concede.
\_ Agh! You just made it four!
\_ It's one "w00ts" and two "w00t"s
\_ One w00t, two w00t, red w00t, blue w00t!
\_ Die.
\_ w00t! w00t! |
| 2004/5/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:30301 Activity:nil |
5/19 http://csua.org/u/7db (Washington Post) By the time [the crowd] reached the Zourob intersection, witnesses said, there were nearly 2,000 people chanting slogans and shouting "Jihad!" and "God is Great!" At a bend in the road, they spotted an Israeli tank in the distance and many hesitated, but those in front kept walking. Some threw stones toward the tank that fell well short of their target. Suddenly, the tank opened fire, according to witnesses and survivors. The artillery shell hit an electricity pylon and detonated, they said, sending razor-sharp fragments of the pylon and the shell casing mowing through the demonstrators. \_ Note to self: Don't throw rocks at tanks, Oh wait, I already KNEW that... \_ The tank operators weren't justified in their actions, but the Palestinians involved were REALLY FREAKIN' STUPID. \_ PLO terrorists, meet Charles Darwin. Charles, meet PLO terrorists. |
| 2004/5/15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:30244 Activity:high |
5/15 Get 'em Kofi! The Middle East won't be safe until all the Jews are
dead!
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1C1307DD-BF73-4769-AD70-5106EA7C4ADA.htm
\_ Am I the only one who thinks that Anan/UN's statements make sense?
Do you really think Israel has the right to raze hundreds of homes
of these already very poor people? Yes, some of those could have
been used by terrorists but does that give Israel the right to
literally treat all of Palestinians like shit? This is a nice way
to create even more recruits for Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
\_ The entire palestinian society is now geared for fighting Israel.
There may be innocents but for practical purposes, they are being
held hostage by the radicals. There is no longer any choice --
Israel has to fight the Palestinian people as a whole. There is
no longer a way to separate 'normal' and 'radical.'
\_ Time for the Final Solution, eh?
\_ Israel does not want to destroy the palestinian people,
unlike Israel's counterparts who almost certainly wish to
annihilate Jews from the Middle East. Israel does want to
disengage in some way.
\_ It obviously does. The difference is that Isreal is
not run by a bunch of crude and crazy morons who are
more interested in blowing their own people to martyrdom
than bulding a viable and functioning state while
underming that of its enemy in a complete and systematic
way . The Palestinians deserve no sympathy. Why should
the most stupid people survive? |
| 2004/5/14 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:30229 Activity:high |
5/14 Strong case for Freeper complicity in Berg's death. I had to
grab it out of Google's cache, because of course, it has been
"Freeped" off the air:
http://csua.org/u/7bk
\_ freepers turned me into a newt!!
\_ Not a very strong case really. Tin foil hat territory actually.
Let's list the irregularities about Nick Berg:
1) A Jew in Iraq, without any personal security (not exactly the
safest thing in the world--but it appears he was motivated to help
the reconstruction, and I respect his resolve for that).
2) Had a Koran in Arabic and anti-semitic literature with him.
3) Had an Israel stamp on his passport, and then stamps from other
countries that typically don't allow people in if they've been
through Israel.
4) Zaccarias Moussaoui used his email in 2002. In Oklahoma.
5) He refused help from the US government to get home.
That doesn't add up to a conspiracy, but it does mean that it's not
a surprise that he was picked up by Iraqi police, and was
interviewed by the FBI. It also suggests he might have been a prize
for Al Qaeda.
\_ is there anything weird about the death video? like i read some
stuff about how it looks edited or whatever. i haven't seen it.
\_ ...and without missing a beat, we're right back in tinfoil
hat land. nice. |
| 2004/4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:13292 Activity:nil |
4/20 Can someone tell me why Araft and the PLO have been yelling about
Israel getting out of the West Bank and Gaza for as long as I can
remember, and now that they're getting it they don't want it?
I must be missing something.
\_ You're missing that Israel isn't really getting out.
\_ Yes, you did. You must've been under a rock for the past five
years. Arafat was offered what essentially amounted to
a Palestinian state following the peace accords that were
signed when Rabin was PM. After he won the Nobel Arafat
basically did a 180 and said the agreement wasn't up to snuff
because it wouldn't allow for repatriation of displaced
Palestinians back into Israel. Essentially he used a small
technicality to sink the deal. Arafat probably felt that if
negotiated peace did come about it would essentially mean the
end of the PLO since I think he's lost a lot of support by
the Palestinians and he most likely wouldn't have won the
leadership of the Palestinians if he had to go through a vote
(or at least he would have a plurality in which he would have
to share power). This is the reason why the international
community has abandoned Arafat and the PLO. It's also why
Sharon (an Israeli hardliner) is in power now.
\_ And don't forget that the only reason "Arabs have a great
hate for America" is because all they hear as "news" is
vile propoganda. Of course, laying out the facts in an
understandable manner isn't exactly big in the American
press either, but it is a HECK of a lot better here.
\_ Right of return wasn't nearly the only issue.
http://csua.org/u/6zd
Why do you insist on holding to stupid justifications?
\_ yawn, how about "you're vastly misinformed by the mainstream
press" instead of "you're a liar".
\_ Well, whatever. When someone spews off a long paragraph
claiming to be an authority, and with an obvious interest
in the subject, it's more than "misinformed by press".
I don't see that in the mainstream press. I'd grant that
he probably just gets his info from one-sided sources,
like any partisan listening to other partisans.
\_ I'm fairly neutral and read a lot of press coverage
from the major sources, and I remember they blame
Arafat for backing off at the last moment because
of the right of return. And that's "vastly
misinformed".
\_ Well it's obviously an oversimplification.
I would imagine that could be true, if Israel was to
recognize right of return then probably Palestinians
would accept a lot of other compromises since after
all that would make most other things moot. Israel
has moved the negotiating away from right of return
altogether but to Palestinians this is a perfectly
reasonable right and was recognized by the U.N.
To them, the right of return is huge because it is
the whole basis of their position, the fact that
millions of Palestinians were expelled would imply
that some form of compensation could be expected
in a peace settlement even if no actual Palestinians
would actually return.
\_ cuz nothing short of death to all jews is not good enuf
\_ Palestinians are angry because the U.S. just traded the right of
return and six blocs of the West Bank for withdrawal from the
other parts of the West Bank and Gaza.
\_ There was no right of return. Anymore than Jews can ever
return to their homes in the Arab countries they were kicked
out of or fled from.
\_ Tell that to the Palestinians
\_ I do believe we just did.
\_ Well, Bush did. Anyway, hopefully this explains
why the Palestinians are angry. Whether or not they
have a good reason to be angry, well, I'm not saying.
The Palestinians sure thought the right of return
was a legitimate point of negotiation, as well as
the return of all the occupied territories.
\_ Two wrongs make a right? Because someone down the street
does me a wrong, makes it okay to do the same thing to
my neighbor? Plus, most Arab countries are welcoming
Joos back these days.
\_ "six blocs" == about 1/3 of the West Bank
\_ thanks, I didn't know that, but it sounds like a lot, and
I've been reading about the non-contiguous nature of the
remaining portions
\_ Actually, I'd first like to see the "right of return" of
Palestinians to the Arab countries they were kicked out of.
After that we can start to talk about Joos.
\_ Nah, Israel / the Palestinian territories is where there is
currently an occupation
\_ I'm not sure if this was sarcastic or not.
\_ It isn't.
\_ Soooo... It's ok for me to implement ethnic
cleansing if... what. I'm confused. All I'm
getting here is Jews can't do it, but Arabs can,
or "Ethnic Cleasers must have been the dominant
racial group for the last 1000 years."
\_ I think you've summarized the position of a large
segment of the world's population quite well.
Arabs are perpetrating a genocide this very moment
in Sudan, and no one seems to care.
\_ Do you think Sudan's a good point of reference?
Hail Israel! At least it's better than Sudan!
\_ Certainly if Sudan is worse than Israel, the
world community should start there. Fix
the biggest problems first. -- ilyas
\_ I'm not sure what you're saying, but
the basic idea is that the West Bank and Gaza
are currently being occupied, whereas
Palestinians aren't saying they are being
occupied in other countries.
\_ What are you talking about? They are from Palestine, not
some other mythical "Arab countries" that is why they
call themselves Palestinians.
\_ JOOS BAD! ARABS GOOD!
\_ L4M3R! ARABS BAD! JOOS GOOD!
\_ YOU SUX0R!
\_ ARABS ARE HYPPOCRITES!
\_ YOU SUCKS AT SPELLING, JEW LOVER!@%@#!!
\_ W00t! |
| 2004/4/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:13244 Activity:nil |
4/16 Hamas_leader_002 go boom. Long live Hamas_leader_003!
\_ hey man, he needs to show he's not giving stuff away, so he
can get the vote he needs for disengagement - what better way
than to blow up terrorists?
\_ hey man, #2 was a murderous piece of shit and earned his place in
heaven with his 72 virgin brides. kill them fast enough and the
others will get the idea that being a terrorist leader isn't the
fun flashy and lucrative adventure anymore it was for Arafat and a
tiny cadre of his senior PLO buddies.
\_ Yeah, its worked really well at stopping that terra so far!
\_ ditto. That, along with the promise of permantly occupies
westbank.
\_ *MAY BE* Sharon is making false promise of permantely
occupies Westbank for now, to build political support for
withdraw from Gaza. At the same time, kill one or two
guys in Hamas to show they withdraw according to their
own will, not defeated by PLO. Once withdraw from
Gaza is completed, *MAY BE* he will announce withdraw
from the Westbank as well. It's just my personal fantacy, |
| 2004/4/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:13188 Activity:very high |
4/14 Bush alters U.S. Israel policy in joint press conference with Sharon.
Bush praises Sharon's "historic and courageous" actions, and says the
U.S. does not support the Palestinian "right of return", and the U.S.
also supports the unilateral withdrawal of Israel behind its new wall.
Israelis and Palestinians would be separated in this disengagement.
Bush says he does not want the peace plan scrapped, but Palestinians
say it would be if Sharon followed through. Major newspapers say that
Bush "endorses" proposal in which Israel would unilaterally keep some
parts of the West Bank. (Sorry, this last sentence is getting revised
because the news sources are changing as well.)
\_ Sharon: unilateral withdrawal from most of occupied territories
which is exactly what the Palestinians say they wanted all along.
Right of return: no one ever mentions all the Jews displaced from
their homes in Arab countries. If Israel were to be flooded with
millions of returnees it would be the end of Israel. This is a
complete red herring and everyone involved knows this will never
be allowed to happen.
\_ Yes it is a red herring, but it has symbolic value to the
Palestinians, as it amounts to Israel admiting it shouldn't have
siezed the land. It might be a good compromise if Israel said
"Yes, you have a right of return, but only X-thousand per year,
and old people get priority. Oh, and only if you were born
there. No fiesty grandkids."
\_ Why should they do this? Are the Arabs letting Jews back in?
\_ In some countries, yes.
\_ Name them.
\_ then they kill them more easily
\_ A big issue is that the right of return has been considered
for decades as a point of negotiation, and in this sense, is
definitely not a "red herring". Bush just said, "No more
negotiating. Things have changed. Why can we do it?
'cause we can. Now, is anyone going to do anything about it?"
\_ Welcome to the way the world *really* works. Might really
does make right and there's no negotiating with terrorists.
\_ If you really believe that might makes right, then
why do you even use the word "terrorist?" Are you just
trying to score political points?
\_ Well, Republicans would say that Bush is demonstrating
leadership. Democrats would say Bush is being a dumbass.
leadership. Democrats would Bush is being a dumbass.
I suppose the truth lies in between.
The wall: if Indians or Mexicans were blowing shit up all over
California and Texas, you bet your ass there'd be a wall built
with 100% support in all 3 branches of government and every
opinion poll.
\_ yeah, except Mexico is a country, Palestine is not.
\_ Palestine is an invaded land taken over by evil Jews with the
help of imperialist rich white westerners for the purpose of
humiliating the justly proud Palestinian peoples! Huzzah!
\_ Bad troll, no cookie, see below.
\_ Pathetic attempt to avoid debating the subject.
\_ Why would it be "the end of Israel"? Couldn't Israel become
a multi-ethnic secular democracy, like the rest of the
civilized world?
Israel: evil sinful place that must be destroyed and replaced with
oppressive anti-democratic gun toting jack boot thugs to make the
world a better place. Any world with fewer Jews is a better world.
(That's your cookie, enjoy it).
\_ There is already a wall built to keep Mexicans out. I guess
Canadians are ok, though.
\_ There isn't a wall. You been to the border? It goes on and
on for hundreds of miles with no wall, no patrols, no nothing.
Maybe it depends on what your meaning of "wall" is. Is. eh?
\_ Have you been to San Diego? There is a wall that runs for
many miles. The wall isnt' 3000 miles long (yet) but it
certainly exists.
\_ If Mexico had invaded the United States and the US had beaten
them back and siezed the northernmost Mexican States, and then
the Mexicans living in those states had demanded return of the
land to Mexico, and the US had not only refused but had built
a wall solidifying its control of the best parts of all of the
land while the Mexicans living in those states had started
blowing shit up in California and Texas, then you might have
a reasonable analogy, but only tenuously.
\_ Hey history genius, where the hell do you think CA/TX came
from? The US invaded Mexico and *took* them and the Mexicans
are still pissed off about it and some even talk about a right
of return everytime immigration reform comes up. When you
read a 3rd grade history book you can come back and talk with
the grownups about grownups things. Jesus Christ, I don't
even know how to get across how deeply ignorant and stupid
your statements are. READ A BOOK, DAMN IT!
\_ If you read the book then you'd know that:
A) Texas seceded on its own from Mexico, then asked
for Union membership.
\_ Don't get your history from watching "The Alamo".
The europeans settled on Mexican territory, and
for Union membership.
then stole it. End of story.
B) Similar thing happend with California (ergo Bear
Republic).
C) Latinos were complicit in both events and supported
the secession.
\_ And they were right to do it. Compare Mexico
to America. Which political system would YOU
have wanted to live under for the last 100
years?
D) The U.S. actually paid Mexico after the U.S./Mexican
war for the land.
E) We purchased another chunk of Mexico for the
railroad during the Gadsen Purchase.
Perhaps you should dig yourself up a copy of
Nivens and Commager and actually read up on
factual 19th century US history.
--williamc
\_ See, here's the part I enjoy: you didn't read my post, or
you'd've seen where I said "If Mexico had invaded the
United States." For a literate monkey, you're still
pretty illiterate.
\_ Uhm, actually he did. You're still an idiot (and
woefully ignorant to boot). You REALLY need to read
that 3rd grade history text, chum.
\_ Oh, gawd, now I'm in a "yes-he-did, no-he-didn't"
argument with two morons. The US invaded Mexico,
yes, I knew that. To make the analogy work, though,
you have to have Mexico (i.e., the Arab nations)
invade the US (i.e., Israel). THEN the ass-kicking
occurs, and THEN the landgrab occurs (rightfully
so, IMO). The US-Mexico situation lacks the Mexico
as instigator component that makes Israel look
down-right commendable.
\_ See, the original proclamation of a Jewish state
was unjust. Imagine if a bunch of Mexicans come
and proclaim a new "American state" based on the
historical Indian presence (even if historically
it was small and over 1000 years ago, and a part
of larger empires normally). Oh and the new state
grants secondary status to people not of this
group. There's no justification for a "Jewish
state" as such, theocracy is a cultural issue and
needs to stay that way. History shows what an
absolute tragedy it is when theocracy gets into
government. (c.f. collapse of greco-roman
civilization, Muslim stagnation, European dark
ages, south american human sacrifice etc.).
\_ By that logic, there are no just
states today. US is certainly not, they
seceded in armed conflict. Most
countries are a very recent development, and
if not, their borders certainly were created
as a result of injust historical processes:
armed conflict, dynastic inheritance, colonial
aggression, etc. Show me one just state.
-- ilyas
\_ Some of the Greek city-states formed
voluntary alliances. There's also a
distinction between armed secession and
armed conquest. Having said that, the
problem with Israel wasn't the state per se,
as some kind of state was being implemented
anyway, but the forced expulsions of the
existing occupants and subsequent problems.
This is not a staple feature of most other
countries, even if there are obviously
many examples.
\_ 'Staple feature'? What does that
even mean? The character of
many modern countries was _defined_
by the mass expulsions they performed,
the example which is closest is
obviously the Spanish Reconquista, where
essentially all the muslim population of
Spain was either converted at the point
of the sword or driven off into Africa.
Then there is the US and native Americans,
the expulsion of Jews from Germany (Germany
is still trying to get a sizeable Jewish
population), etc, etc, etc. Why are
you singling out Israel? Clarification
of original question: show me one just
state existing today. -- ilyas
Most of Europe was converted at point of the sword. _/
They were a bunch of pagans. That doesn't make it right.
Israel can easily be "singled out" because it's happening
in our time, in an age when we are well informed and have
and have international structures to try to prevent such
things. Germany wasn't created by the expulsion of Jews,
and besides, everyone agrees that the Nazi nation wasn't
just. It wasn't just German Jews they picked on either
I already stated there are many other examples (Turkey
is a big one IMO). But we seem to concern ourselves
with other such things like Kuwait or Serbia (or how
with other such things like Kuwait or Serbia (or how
about that Nazi Germany) so why are you singling out
Israel for exemption from criticism?
about that Nazi Germany) so why are you singling out
Israel for exemption from criticism? Oh and the Moors
conquered Spain first. And Germany was formed from the
union of Germanic kingdoms (yeah, those tribes probably
pushed some celts out or something, just like various
slavs pushed out germanics)
\_ Not at all. I don't claim Israel should be exempt
from criticism, but using the 'injust state' as
a rationalization for any sort of action will simply
not work. All modern states are 'injust.' The same
argument applies with equal force to them. I suggest
starting in alphabetical order instead of with the
letter 'i'. Also, Israel is a democratic state,
civilization, Muslim stagnation, European dark
ages, south american human sacrifice etc.).
of original question: show me one just
state existing today. -- ilyas
not work. All modern states are 'injust.' The same
argument applies with equal force to them. I suggest
starting in alphabetical order instead of with the
letter 'i'. -- ilyas
despite its injust roots, just as the US and Britain
are. We are not recommending returning large parts
of the US back to the native americans, or large
parts of Britain back to the Celts. Why is Israel
different? -- ilyas
\_ Israel's still occupying extra territories. Anyway
the point of the "not just" comment was in response
to some guy justifying Israel's land grabs. I never
said the main part of Israel should be given back.
\_ Then it seems you and the Palestinian Authority
are at odds. Look at their flag (or seal).
Note the all-of-israel-shaped silhouette with
Palestinian colors. They explicitly want it all.
-- ilyas
The US still occupies Native American land.
Surely you don't imply that just because the
landgrab happened some time ago, and there are
less indians left that it's suddenly ok for US
to keep the land, but not ok for Israel? You
can't pick and choose. -- ilyas
\_ Last desperate act of a man who knows he is going down. He will
pull a Johnson any minute now.
\_ Ok, i'll bite. What exactly does "pull a Johnson" mean?
\_ Pull the other one, mate, 's got bells on it.
\_ Uhhuhuhu huhhuu huhuuh. He said "pull my Johnson." Huh huh.
\_ "With America's sons in the fields far away, with America's
future under challenge right here at home, with our hopes
and the world's hopes for peace in the balance every day,
I do not believe that I should devote an hour or a day of
my time to any personal partisan causes or to any duties
other than the awesome duties of this office - the
round, maybe kill a few people, and then run away.
of interests.)
so don't care if they can be long gone.
Presidency of your country.
Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept,
round, kill a bunch of innocent Israelis, and then run away.
the nomination of my party for another term as your
President."
Of course, that was a real President, not a phoney pretender.
\_ Johnson? As in LBJ? I take it your definition of a "
real President" is a disgusting liar who screwed this
country 60 ways from Sunday. Quite frankly, I'd take
Bush over LBJ anyday. Heck, I'd take Gore, Nixion,
and most lower life forms. (Excluding viri and
bacteria dangerous to Human health. We have a conflict
of interests.)
\_ "viri" isn't a word.
\_ "viruses" is the plural "virus," and "viri"
is an abbreviation from latin slang meaning
"i'm a pompous ass computer geek."
\_ Israel belongs to the Jews. Read Genesis 17.
\_ The reason the "peace process" will end is the leverage the
Palestinians had (blowing up Israelis) will be gone.
\_ Why aren't the Palestinians using mortars? Just lob a few and
run away. By the time they land and the IDF finds out where you
launched from, you can be long gone.
\_ a) they don't have them b) if they did, they'd get caught
running around with them c) even if no one got caught, IDF
exacts punishment on entire area d) they're suicidal anyway
so don't care if they can be long gone.
\_ the idea is that you're much bigger to have killed yourself
and others in a "spectacular" attack, rather than lob a
round, maybe kill a few people, and then run away. |
| 2004/4/8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:13078 Activity:moderate |
4/7 http://www.senderberl.com/rice3.14.jpg \_ What are these guys, lysdexic? http://Senderberl.com: "Ralph Nadar", "Arnold Schwartzenegger"? -John \_ My gawd, stop the miscegenation! Who will think of the children! |
| 2004/3/31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12951 Activity:nil |
3/31 So "strategy" = follow the herd? Following the herd
would definitely multiply our allies. That's asinine,
I admit. Let's then say that Bush 1) Lobbied Congress to
put three electric fences along our northern and southern
borders. 2) Stop letting unmarried males of age 18-35
of Muslim heritage into this country. 3) Had the police
deport every illegal alien caught. Would he or would he
not have been branded as racist and divisive? The
murderers won't be happy until: 1) We abandon Israel
2) You are praying to Mecca 5x a day 3) The women are
wearing burqas.
\_ why would praying to Mecca be so bad? Aren't you essentially
praying to Israel?
\_ Christians and Jews back Israel because according to the
Word of God, God's time for Israel's punishment was up;
the Jews returned on schedule http://www.yfiles.com/y3nf.html
To want the destruction of Israel is to be against God's
people and God. To love God's people and help them is to
love God's plan. It definitely grieve's God's heart
to watch us kill His enemies without them accepting Jesus
Christ. I don't remember our support of Israel being openly
questioned until the last two years, and the next step for
the US for an incoming Democratic administration is
abandoning God's people Israel, and that will end
what remains of His blessing on this country.
\_ people have questioned our support of israel for decades --
it's just because Israel has stepped up its "actions against
terrorism" that there are more people speaking up louder
\_ I think Bush mishandled the diplomacy but I don't think you can
realistically say we lost allies or increased enemies. We are
still allied with all the same old allies, and have all the same
old enemies. Where's the difference? There was just more bickering
in NATO.
\_ If you have chance, go outside of USA. Anti-USA sentiment is
at all time high, mostly due to our policy toward Iraq.
\_ I doubt it (the mostly due to Iraq part). Where does this
matter? Not in Europe. China? They'd whip up people against
USA no matter what, because this furthers the autocratic
interests (but they also like US money). The Russians are
getting blown up themselves, I'm doubt in a few years that
Iraq alone will have been enough to make people hate the USA.
In the end, Saddam was such that defending him is laughable.
The problem for us is the huge costs we're incurring, which
IMO wasn't justified, and the credibility disaster of how
Bush chose to present and conduct the operation, which was
the only way they could win domestic support for it.
\_ The error in your thinking is that not seeing a reason
to attack Saddam is not the same as "defending him."
The error is so large that it clouds your entire
worldview.
\_ There were plenty of reasons to attack him and
everyone knows it. Ignoring that clouds YOUR
worldview.
\_ Why did almost everyone counsel against it then?
No valid reasons were given to the international
community. The only halfway decent one was
given ex post facto, which doesn't cut it.
\_ Saddam and his history was "enough" to attack him.
Anyway my point is that although it may have been
inadvisable, and people quibble with the means,
no one argues against the end, and it's not
changing who are our allies/enemies.
\_ That is your opinion and I disagree with it.
Read some opinion polls about how the world
regards America today compared with 2000.
\_ if you disagree show me an example. you're
the one asserting that there's a difference.
opinion polls are worthless, but i haven't
seen one showing any substantive change.
\_ link:csua.org/u/6pi
Hope you have an Economist subscription
http://csua.org/u/6pj
Here is one that is free.
\_ The world is not black and white, the way you seem to think
that it is. Bush's father was able to assemble a coalition
using diplomacy and kind words. Dubya drove everyone off with
his strong words and bluster.
\_ hey, you can't have everything all the time
\_ Isn't it black and white to assume 1991=2001?
\_ he didn't make that assumption. -tom
\_ You are right tom. He didn't necessarily make such an
assumption. But was Bush necessarily wrong to call 9/11
an evil act? Perhaps it was hypocritical of us to call
Iraq/Afghanistan evil and invade them, and not give China
Korea, and Saudi Arabia the same treatment. But was it
so off base as to be an outright lie?
\_ The mistake was lumping Iraq/Afghanistan together
like that. The whole world outside of a here could
see that they were very different cases. A true
friend and ally tells you when you are about to
make a big mistake, like Germany did. |
| 2004/3/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12858 Activity:nil |
3/25 http:\\apnews.myway.com\article\20040325\D81HG1480.html
"The ad reflected growing sentiment among many Palestinian leaders
and intellectuals that military struggle is not helping the
Palestinian cause."
Gee, Ya' Think, Sherlok?
\_ what's the deal with the backslashes?
\_ That's a ms window thing.
\_ not for URLs it's not. |
| 2004/3/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12843 Activity:nil |
3/25 Another coward who doesn't understand the righteousness of the cause
and that we must destroy the Zionist Entity by any means necessary.
This collaborator's family will suffer our wrath for raising this
Jew loving traitor and not disavowing his actions against us all.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040324/D81GUJ3O0.html
\_ "He doesn't know anything, and he has the intelligence of a 12
year old," said his brother, Hosni.
Wow, how would you like your family to say that about you
to the international media? Ha!
\_ err ... to absolve him from responsibility as much as possible.
apparently your intelligence is not much higher than his.
\_ Yes, I knew that, moron. Apparently you have the sense
of humor of a pregnant whale with morning sickness.
\_ LOOK! it's Captain Obvious!
\_ Hosni will be the first punished for his crimes
against the people. |
| 2004/3/24 [Recreation/Computer, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12841 Activity:nil |
3/24 Oh, where is the outrage?
http://www.poynter.org/content/content_view.asp?id=62930
\_ From the article, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be
outraged about. He's a lying journalist, fire him, put him in
prison, whatever they do these days. I don't care what COLOR
his is. What's with all this crap about him being white?
\_ Because dearie, when Jayson Blair was caught with his pants down
the race card was played in full. The column was satire, if you
hadn't noticed.
\_ Yeah, but that's because old Blair had played the
racecard to get where he was. (Or at least the people
around him had.)
\_ Sorry, not taking your bait... |
| 2004/3/24 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12840 Activity:high |
3/24 Moroccan Jewish Leader: Killing of Hamas Founder "An Act of Bestiality"
http://tinyurl.com/2js76
http://csua.org/u/6l8 -- 3 chars shorter!
\_ If you look hard enough, you will always find people who hate their
own people, like the jews who collaborated with Nazis. They're
known as self-haters.
\_ That's right. Just like how the Democrats hate America.
\_ Why ya gotta be a player hater? |
| 2004/3/22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29875 Activity:nil |
3/22 I think they should settle the whole Israel/Palestine conflict via
professional wrestling. Each people could have a wrestler
representative, and all the chair-throwing and piledriver moves would
satisfy people's lust for violence without anyone actually getting
hurt. They could even have the mat set up at the Temple on the Mount!
\_ I'd like to see a bacon-eating contest.
\_ but god granted the wrestling ring as holy land.
\_ "DO YOU SMELL WHAT THE ROCK IS COOKIN?"
"Oi, this guy is meshuggunah..." |
| 2004/3/22-23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12794 Activity:high |
3/22 Blow me, MOTD censor dickwit. I posted a perefctly "legit" link,
not that it's your job to judge. As I said, cool shit:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3556099.stm -John
\_ Blind, paralyzed 67 year old man, confined to a wheelchair,
assassinated by missles fired from a helicopter. Reason:
he was a threat to Israel's security.
\_ Why didn't Israel just arrest him?
\_ They were trolling the motd.
\_ Oooh, good troll. No bites, though, troll harder!
\_ then why you kept erasing my post?
\_ John, killing him is not going to solve the problem. Elimate
Hamas is not going to resolve the problem. You do need to carry
out genocide on Palestinian people, reduce their population to
insignificant number (similiar to the native American in USA) to
solve that problem... if you want to solve th problem using
violence.
\_ "The problem" is intractable. There is no solution that doesn't
involve the destruction of Israel or moving a few million Arabs
from Gaza and the WB into other Arab countries that don't want
the black sheep of Islam.
\_ Why stop at Gaza and the WB? Why is that going to be enough?
There will be no peace for Israel until every living Arab
is exterminated.
\_ No cookie. Sorry. Maybe you'll catch me in a foul mood
some other time and I'll feed you then. I just had a 3
hour lunch so you're not getting fed today.
\_ Wow, for a bunch peace loving people who just want equal rights
the Palestinians sure were broken up about the death of that
mass murderer...
\_ He incited violence. He didn't murder anyone. While inciting
violence is a crime. It's nothing near being a capital offence.
The fact that Israel is assassinating people for their political
ranting shows that neither side has any moral legitimacy in this
conflict.
\_ so did Hitler, he just ordered people killed
\_ That's all fine and dandy in your highly controlled and very
law and order western society. This is a war, not a civil
disobedience issue. Do you think we should send the FBI to
arrest bin Laden, too? Some people are beyond the law
especially in places where there is no law. He was the law.
\_ They did arrest him and put him in prison for 8 years.
Then they let him go for some reason. Why did they
release him if he's so dangerous?
\_ Because Israel is still a law abiding western society
and the current 'war' hadn't started yet. It was a time
of relative quiet and the palestinians hadn't stuck the
knife in yet.
\_ Hamas is a social organization that brings food to the poor,
educates children, provides jobs to the jobless and brings hope
to the hopeless in a war torn area in a fight the people didn't
ask for. The man is a martyr and a victim. How can you not see
the good that Hamas does for the people? The poor guy was in a
wheel chair? How could he be responsible for anyone's death?
This was an unjustified, cowardly act, very unlikely to achieve
peace in the area and very very bad news for the Middle East
peace process. The only way to stop the violence is for the
Israelis to stop killing Palestinian children, women, and old
crippled men with their American build missiles and leave *all*
of the Palestinian territories. We must go back to the pre-1947
lines. Violence only begets violence, so the next time a bunch
of Israeli teens get killed at a pizza parlor, disco, or a
university cafeteria by a Palestinian martyr, they should know
they've brought this upon themselves. For every Palestinian
victim of Israeli aggression and illegal occupation there should
be a thousand Israeli children killed on buses, in school and out
on the town. Once the Jews are driven into the sea, there shall
finally be peace in the Middle East and then we can look to
bringing the same peace to Europe, starting with France and
Spain.
\_ Yassin has stated in several interviews that he supports
suicide attacks on Israeli civilians. Here's one with
Die Welt:
http://tinyurl.com/24t5m and one with the BBC:
http://tinyurl.com/2by97 -John
\_ It's kinda disturbing when the greatest dreams
parents can think of for their children is to
become human bombs.
\_ Golda Meir, "we will have peace when palestinian
mothers love their children more than they hate Jews."
\_ thanks for illustrating what the attitude problem is.
You are blind. One does not need to build a bomb with
his own hands to be responsible for leading others to do
the actual work. You say 'violence begets violence', but
yet you do not equally condemn the Palestinians for killing.
Almost every cease fire, or peace accord, is broken by yet
another suicide bomber, who believes there should be no
negotiation, just unilateral withdrawl. For every one, you
claim blood of a thousand. Where is the equality in that?
With that statement, you imply a belief in the superiority
of one group over another. You'd fit well alongside the
Nazis. I'm all for a separate Palestinian state, and I
dislike a lot of Israel's actions and responses, but I
can't say the Palestinians aren't part of the problem
either.
\_ I call Godwin's Law on you.
\_ Pay attention to the next cease fire. It will probably
be broken by an Isreali attack, just like the last one
was. Sharon is no more interested in peace than Hamas is.
\_ No, pay attention to the past. Once you see who
started the last few years worth of terrorism and
upped the ante with suicide bombers you'll start to
understand why the Israelis do what they do. If you
were allowed to settle the issue, what would you do?
Tell Israel to go back to pre-67 borders? Close all
the check points and give free and open access to the
entire country to every Palestinian?
\_ On the other hand, Israel has been continously
creating new settlements settling Joos from
all over the world coming back to Israel on
Palestinian land.
\_ I disagree with the current settlement policy,
however that is not the root cause of the arabs
sending their own children into civilian crowds
wearing bombs.
\_ I'm pretty sure that was satire man.
\_ Yeah. He had me going up until that disco line.
\_ disco? that was the tip off? so you're unaware
of how many Israeli teens were killed in the last
2-3 years in Israeli discos? sigh...like pearls....
\_ No, silly boy, the tip off was the part where
the author said that Israeli teens getting
blown up in discos should realize that they'd
brought it upon themselves. Of course, you'd
rather curse the darkness than light a candle,
I understand why you jumped to that conclusion.
\_ Problem is, there are people who honestly think this
\_ there was a time when Muslim world are the heaven for Jews who
are escaping prosecution from Christian church. I wonder how
many people remember that.
\_ was that before or after mass conversions to Islam by the sword?
\_ after _and_ before. after the North African conversion by
the sword and before the fanatics came to power in Iberia.
\_ so the ones who didn't get killed or forced to convert
found Islam a haven of open mindedness? cool.
\_ willful child. they mostly emigrated to Islamic
kingdoms after the mass conversions and before the
rise of the fanatics. many of them immigrated when the
latter came to power.
\_ When was this period "before the rise of fanatics"?
The whole religion started on day one that way.
\_ Nice and glib, but you're completely ignoring the
Islamic Renaissance of the late first Milennium.
Go visit a place called a "library" and read some
interesting things called "books" before posting
anything else.
\_ Islamic Renaissance? hahaha. they are still
living in the dark ages twink
\_ Are you trying to look stupid?
\_ No, he's accurate and the truth hurts.
The IR is a period of time they were
advancing faster than Europe in terms of
technology and math but they were still
religious fanatics, primitives, and
incredibly barbaric by our western
standards today. They never left the
middle ages. They still whine about
500+ year 'transgressions' by countries
and people that don't even exist anymore.
\_ 500+ years? That's nothing. Jews
claim right to a land they left
2000 years ago.
\_ I am not sure that "open mindedness" is the right
word, but Jews were treated better in the Ottoman
Empire than in Christian Europe.
\_ The word you are looking for is 'expediency.'
The Ottomans knew that tolerance was the only way
to run a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-
cultural state (which included that haven of
tranquility, the Balkans). -- ilyas
\_ Is it bad to be tolerant for the sake of
expediency? Is Putin's being tough a stance
of principle?
\_ I wasn't making a value judgement. Also,
you can't argue with results. -- ilyas
\_ how does the ottomans compare
with the russians on their treatment
of jews historically?
\_ The jews were always persecuted in
Russia (Czarist and Communist).
The word 'pogrom' is a Russian word.
Email me for a longer account if you
are interested. -- ilyas
\_ they did try to genocide the christian
armenians though.
\_ Your point is valid, but your use of the word
is not. s/genocide/commit genocide against/
\_ I realize that, but I think we should
allow it to be used as a verb or invent
a verb version. maybe genocize.
ethnically cleanse is awkward,
exterminate is possible but not specific
enough. "commit genocide against" is
too long, and I am lazy.
\_ You want a verb form of a word made up
to evoke moral outrage and loathing
because the alternatives are too long
and you are lazy? This truly is the
end of the Roman Empire.
\_ what's the big deal? this happens
all the time. eg. "google" is
now used as a verb.
\_ The big deal is that google is not
synonymous with death and misery.
Genocide is.
\_ I don't see the relevancy
of "death and misery" to
the argument. |
| 2004/3/17-18 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12727 Activity:nil |
3/17 In American Pie, is Jim suppose to be Jewish?
\_ James is a Christian name.
\_ So everyone named James is Christian?
\_ I would not try to claim that I know what every single
person on the planet earth might decide name their kid.
\_ He *looks* like a Jew, right? But he doesn't wear one of those
beanie hates so maybe he isn't....
\_ the character's last name is "Levinstein".
\_ thats a jew name? |
| 2004/3/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12714 Activity:insanely high |
3/17 It is a cold day in hell when I agree with Patrick Buchanan
and here I do:
http://www.amconmag.com/3_1_04/cover.html
\_ I think that guy is so all over the map politically that it's
inevitable to agree with him on something eventually. Even
a broken clock reads right twice a day.
\_ No. He's very consistent. He simply doesn't fit your nice
little left/right spectrum. Not all of us do.
\_ Perhaps. More likely, it's because I don't agree with the
jews, so the enemy of my enemy is my friend, on this
neocons, so the enemy of my enemy is my friend, on this
issue.
\_ I'm with you on that one. I hate the jews, too, and if we
[Yes, yes, you're very clever substituting "jews" for
"neocons." We get it. Now fuck off.]
\_ I'm with you on that one. I hate the joo, too, and if we
leave the arabs alone for a while, I'm sure they'll
eventually get it together and wipe them out. Just a few
short years and the Zionist entity will collapse and the
invaders are driven into the sea.
all the lands will return to the rightful owners after the
invaders are driven into the sea.
I guess he is more of an isolationist, than some other label
which people painted him.
\_ He's always been an isolationist. This is nothing new.
\_ GO PAT! GO!
\_ Sure you do. You can spot a Right Wing troll from
a mile away.
\_ No, I was showing you what you sound like. Mockery
is a very simple and common rhetorical technique that
I thought even the motd could see and understand. I
was mistaken. Next time I'll put <mockery></mockery>
tags around it so dunderheads like you will know.
\_ No one sounds like that to anyone, except in your
paranoid and delusional brain. No one on the
motd says "I hate the jew, too" except for
Right Wing psycho trolls like yourself. Learn
to distinguish between disagreeing with Isreal's
policies and a desire to kill all Jews. Or
forever be marginalized by normal, non-hate filled
people.
\_ You sound like that to me. Your petty insults
don't change anything or cover your racist
attitudes. It's odd how you went from calling
Israel your enemy (your word choice) to simply
'disagreeing with their policies'. You're a
hater and a racist and you're caught red handed
smearing the motd with it. Tough shit, it's too
late to pretend otherwise now. Why don't you
just erase all this instead and pretend you're
still a good and just person?
\_ First of all, you are responding to a
different person than the one who wrote
the "enemy of my enemy" phrase. Not everyone
who disagrees with you is the same person.
Secondly, it is a phrase, not taken literally
by normal, sane people. Does any individual
consider themselves the "enemy" of a sovereign
power? No one I know. And how is disagreeing
with Likud's policies "racist" again? Are
Isrealis a race? Is the Likud party a race?
Awaiting your reply. The only one who said
they hated all the jews was you, remember.
\_ Note that the enemy phrase was applied to
"neocons". --some other guy
\_ Yeah, but psycho guy decided that he
would change this into "jew" and then
go on a rant about how anyone who
disagreed with the neocons was really
an Anti-Semite who wanted to kill all
the Jews. Interesting political debate
tactic, I must admit.
\_ very interesting, I also agree with him in this regard. |
| 2004/3/16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12708 Activity:nil |
3/16 A tribute to Rachel Corrie. God bless her soul.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110004796
And a big 'fuck you' to who ever has been erasing this. You hater!
\_ Pot. Kettle. Black.
\_ But the difference is, I'd take Jews over Palestinians any
day.
\_ I know you would because you are prejudiced SOB who
sees no value in Arab life. I would take a good person
of any religion or nationality. Too bad you are too
blinded by your hate to see that there is good and
bad on both sides.
\_ There is bad on both sides but I'd take a democracy that
provides full freedom to women over fascist dictatorship
that murders 'collaborators' on the stree in cold blood
with no trial and conducts mock elections when they bother
to pretend to have them, or sends their *children* out
on the street carrying *suicide bomb belts*! I'll respect
Arab life when they start to respect Arab life.
\_ It's not a Democracy when almost half of those under
its rule have no vote. The Isrealis have killed
more Palestinian civilians than visa versa. Your
worldview is seriously twisted by the lies you
have been fed.
\_ there are more dead palestinians that israelis. you
seriously believe every palestinian death was an
innocent civilian? no, the numbers all get lumped
into a "score board" with only 2 numbers. It's a
democracy and it's the only one in the entire
middle east. You have feelings for the palestinians?
Not even other Arabs give a shit about them. Get
real. They don't even care about their own children.
\_ There are at least four classes of citizen.
Only Jews have full rights:
http://csua.org/u/6gh
How do you call that a Democracy?
\_ Not so much. It's just the Jews have, and continue to
make, a large number of contributions to the world at
large. Not to meantion they haven't attempted large
scale genocide since about... oh... 5000BC.
\_ Your celebration of the death of a brave and
noble human being who selflessly tried to
save a few innocent's homes just shows how far
your hatred and depravity has lowered you to.
I honestly think you need psychological help.
\_ Did you even read the link? She was trying to save
'homes' that were being used to move weapons into
the Gaza strip so the Palestinians could make more
bombs belts to strap on 12 year olds. You honestly
need to learn to read before resorting to ad hominen.
\_ That is a lie. Your entire link is ad hominem.
She died trying to save the home of Dr. Samir
Nasrallah who has never been charged by the
IDF of any crime.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/09/ma_497_01.html
http://www.yesmagazine.org/26courage/halper.htm
\_ What's a lie? That 12 year olds are carrying bomb
belts? That weapons are flowing under tunnels from
the Sinai to Gaza? Give it up. I'm not even going
to waste the network bits to read the leftist trash
from links like mother jones. You might as well be
posting from the democraticunderground site.
\_ The claim that Rachel Corrie was protecting
a tunnel is a lie. And you are a lying and
twisted fuck who seriously needs help.
\_ Hmmm.. Maybe you're right. I was thinking that
supporting terrorists that kill civilians made
her enemy support personnel. Maybe all she
really deserves is a Darwin award.
\_ Because all Palestinians are terrorist scum and
must be cleansed, right?
\_ Ok, I admit it. There's wrong on both sides. But it's
going to continue until:
A) The Palestinians successfully kill all the Jews.
B) The Jews get tired of trying to put up with them and
finally kill all the Palestinians.
C) The Palestinians learn to police themselves and stop
encouraging their children to wear bomb belts.
THIS IS A WAR, and one side is totally fanatical about
killing the other, and will not settle for anything
less. Civilians die in wars too, it's a sad truth.
I'm sorry I'm the one who has to break it to you.
\_ The Israelis are willing to have peace. The other side
only wants pieces. Has the PLO taken that bit out of
their charter that says their goal is to eliminate
Israel and kill all the Jews?
\_ They removed the part that called for the
destruction of Isreal years ago. They never
called the death of all Jews. That is more
of your propaganda.
\_ It's not a war, it's an military occupation that has
lasted 40 years. Israel builds settlements and so forth
regardless of terrorist activity.
\_ Because IT IS WAR, in your words, it is okay to
celebrate the death of a non-violent innocent?
\_ Need I say, that this URL is pretty hateful? |
| 2004/2/15 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:12266 Activity:nil |
2/15 Israel! Palestine! Bush! Pine! Global warming! Outsourcing to India!
\_ Cutting government spending, and then cutting taxes, followed
by building more houses to cut the cost of houses (a.k.a.
increasing supply to lower costs) will do much to cut the
cost of American labor. |
| 2004/2/11 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29796 Activity:very high |
2/10 I'm beginning to think mandatory military service should be instituted
in the USA, say for 2 years after high school. It would help all these
kids to grow up, learn to be away from home and stop being pansies.
They'd be older and more mature going into college, and maybe have a
better sense of direction and perspective in life. It would force rich
kids to serve alongside poor kids and make people care more about US
policy and think about what it means to live here.
\_ Back in MY day, sonny, we walked six miles uphill through the snow
to do our military service! [again, restored]
\_ Uphill both ways?
\_ This isn't Israel or Singapore where land is scarce and border
security requires every able body to participate in the armed
forces. Having such a large non-volunteer force would have no
practical value to the security of this country
\_ Ok 2 years is too much, I was just reading how Euro countries do
it. 9 mo. would still be good, plus there is the possibility of
alternate service in something like Peace Corps. There is all
kinds of stuff they could do. There are lots of non-combat roles
in all the military branches too.
\- would you make females and homosexuals serve? --psb |
| 2003/12/23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:11575 Activity:nil |
12/23 Boring MOTD, so I will spice it up:
http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=1789
Details Isreali PR campaign to get more US tax dollars. |
| 2003/12/19-20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:11528 Activity:nil |
12/18 Freedom Tower:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/12/19/wtc.plan/index.html
\_ that doesn't sound too bad.
\_ Libeskind is impressive. I visited the Jewish Museum in Berlin.
One of the most overtly effective and affecting examples of
architecture i've seen. --scotsman
\_ I like it too. It's like giving the terrorists the finger.
A tasteful, shiny finger.
\_ or a big sinful erection pointing at Allah.
\_ also, as someone unlikely to actually work in the
trade center, i'm glad to hear there'll be a
restraunt. |
| 2003/12/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:11414 Activity:nil |
12/11 Why not give the fence a chance?
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20031209-085525-4213r.htm
\_ Because the wall basically divides the West Bank Palistines into
two enclaves where Isreal controls movement between the two. It
also assumes annexation of 50% of West Bank (the part with access
to water and Syria) to Israel.
\_ Yay! Moonie Times link! Why not post a freeper link and a
national review online link while you're at it?
\_ It is an opinion piece. Are you so threatened by the moonies
that you cannot stand to even read their opinions?
\_ There are conservative opinions worth considering, like
William F. Buckley, William Safire, George Will, and
Chief Justice Rheinquist. Then there are conservative
opinions from uninformed whackos like the Moonies that aren't
even worth the effort required to stomach them. They make
great birdcage lining, though. --motd liberal
\_ Safire, Will, Rehnquist: all dumbasses. -motd moderate
\_ This editorial does not address at all the very good reasons to
not have a wall, which a motd poster has summarized.
\_ Question: What's Israel's justification for building the part of
Wall that separates West Bank cities from Jordan, thus separating
the West Bank from the only Arab neighbor? Does Israel expect to
annex that strip of land?
\_ perhaps trying to cut off west bank palestinian terrorists from
support in other arab land?
\_ Wasn't the wall supposed to prevent the terrorists from
crossing into Israel? Besides terrorist support, this wall
cuts the west bank from its only link to Arab world and this
will certainly have big economic and cultural ramifications
for West Bank. Keeping West Bank people poor and desperate,
will only breed even more hate and terrorists.
\_ Yes, it's for security reasons. It's certainly not
vengeful collective punishment or a land grab.
\_ Actually, Sharon is waving the implied threat of
"If you Palestinians continue to act this way,
then you don't deserve this land, and the land will
end up as a negotiating chip at least."
\_ Q: Why should Israel worry about the economic or cultural
ramifications of this move on a bunch of people who's main
desire is to kill Israelis? The Palestinians have shown no
desire to settle on any peace other than making all the Jews
dead.
\_ And we all know that the actions of a society's most extremist
members accurately reflects the wishes of that whole society.
Timothy McVeigh blew up the OK Federal Building, and all white
midwesterners want to violently overthrow the federal government.
\_ I believe by this point the entire palestinian society is
geared towards the destruction of israel and killing of jews.
There are certain individual palestinians who do not advocate/
support/participate in this, of course, but this doesn't
change the facts. Just google for some information on official
palestinian schools, and the kinds of things their children
are being taught. It's simply a monstrous situation.
\_ Red Herring. The difference is obvious. The chosen
leader of midwesterners is not quoted as encouraging
midwestern children to strap bombs to themselves and blow
up washington.
\_ Which leader is that? Arafat renounced terrorism
years ago.
\_ And all the murders in jail claim innocence, what's
your point?
\_ People are not allowed to change? Circumstances
don't ever change? It would seem odd to me that
you would not want to bring your enemies over
to your side. Maybe you prefer to have enemies.
\_ That would be fine if it were possiable.
It's pretty obvious that Arafat is not
working for peace. Or he would have signed
the numerous agreements he's had. Besides
if the Palestinians wanted a peaceful
leader, they would switch leaders. Not keep
the same one who's "changed."
\_ Which is more dangerous, an enemy on the
other side of a wall, or an enemy on "your
side?"
\_ ^The Palestinians^the radical Palestinian elements
\_ Yup. Sang niggers the lot. Just nuke em and get it over with. |
| 2003/11/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:11224 Activity:kinda low |
11/25 Farmer's house to be destroyed in a matter of hours.
Just remember you never really own property in this country.
If the government wants it, too bad.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1028759/posts
\_ what does it mean in the comments section when freepers say
"bump?" Is that like "Heil Bush?"
\_ if it means the same thing as on various other boards, then
it means to bump the thread back up to the top in the thread
index. it works because posts that show activity get moved up.
\_ Bzzt. As with so many freeper links, this does not contain enough
info to make an informed judgement. Does this building constitute
an asbestos hazard? Is this a living unit? What were Farmer
Avery's responses to the letters sent by the Supervisor? Does the
county intend to claim the land under eminent domain? Give us
more info and less sloganeering. --erikred
\_ Read the constitution. it's called immenient domain.
\_ eminent
\_ Not only do you not know how to spell, you don't know your
Constitution. The Fifth Amendment ends, "nor shall private
property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
That's a right for the people, not the government. In this
case, the property is not being taken, it is not being used
for the public, and the property that is being destroyed is
not being compensated for. The government contends this guy's
home was being used improperly and is destroying it. Unless
due process didn't occur, this is Constitutionally okay. Sucks
for him, but sometimes due process doesn't get nice results.
Further, saying "you never really own property in this country"
is fallacious. It's like saying "you never really own your own
body" because there are limits on abortion and the death penalty
exists. Or because you can be jailed. In this country,
property rights are far greater than in most.
\_ I think it is funny that the same yahoos that celebrate when
Iraqi or Palastinian homes are demolished get all up in arms
when it happens to one of them.
\_ Yeah, because inhabiting your own property because you're
tired is just as bad a crime as killing innocents for political
advantage.
\_ I didn't see in the article where Farmer Bob blew anyone up,
shot down any planes, set off any bombs, or sent his brainwashed
children off to a pizza parlor to kill himself and some kids.
\_ Neither did most of those people in Palestine either. They
just happened to live in the same village.
\_ It's a communist plot from America-hating democrats!
\_ Fascist, actually. |
| 2003/11/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:11120 Activity:nil |
11/18 http://csua.org/u/50z All praise the religion of peace! \_ It's Israel's fault. Says so right in the article. |
| 2003/10/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10845 Activity:high |
10/29 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/middle_east/3221079.stm Rabbis back Israeli 'guard pigs' -- Mohammed Rosenberg \_ All the pigs have laser beams attached to their heads. Every creature deserves a warm meal. \_ Nothing in the kosher laws says you can't go near a pig or use it as a guard pig or anything else. You just can't eat one because of health reasons. \_ The best thing to do is feed them to pigs; you gotta starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped up body will look like curry to a piss head. \_ nothing in the "kosher law" says anything about "health" \_Poorly cooked pork may contain Trichinella parasites, amongst other things. It's why you should really cook pork thoroughly before consuming it. Trichinella is very nasty, causing death due to heart failure if not treated. \_ umm... the chance of getting trichinosis in the US is smaller than the chance of getting struck by lightning. http://www.cbbqa.com/notes/Trichinosis.html \_ its common sense. all the forbidden animals are bottom feeds and filth eaters. the laws aren't random. it was a way to let the people know what was ok or not to eat. ask your rabbi. |
| 2003/10/29 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10833 Activity:moderate |
10/29 http://www.pmw.org.il/new/tv.html In particular: http://www.isratv.com/video/3c.asx http://www.isratv.com/video/2b.asx http://www.isratv.com/video/2a.asx \_ What is the point of posting this stuff on the motd? If you're in neee of an intelligent discussion, then you must know there are much better places. And if you just want another flamewar...how utterly boring and predictable. The csua motd truly has sunk to new depths of stupidity. \_ oh yeah, where? in discussion groups on the net at large there is a dominant ethos and everyone else is a troll or heckler. on the motd there is no dominant ethos. I've learned *a lot* from being opened up to ways of thinking different from my own on the motd that I would never have learned from participating in some one-sided love fest on a discussion board where i agree with everyone. If you haven't learned anything from those who you disagree with, it's your loss. \_ Oh, its the "I've-learned-a-lot-from-the-motd-guy." You should setup housekeeping with "UCLA-CS-guy" and "freeper-guy" and the ChiCom troll and make babies. \_ This is Zionist propaganda - Jews control the world!! Actually I've told by expat Syrians, Armenians, etc. that many of the suicide bombers have mental problems and are heavily recruited by PLO, Hamas etc. because of their vulnerability. \_ Uhm... Armenians? How did they show up on this thread? \_ Well they do border Iran and Turkey. |
| 2003/10/26-27 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10795 Activity:high |
10/25 http://www.sptimes.com/2003/10/26/Columns/Anti_Semitism_s_globa.shtml So if Jews control the world, why didn't I get the memo? I want to know where to signup for my piece. I'd like something with a beach and friendly natives to keep the drinks flowing and the food fresh. Thanks! --Salary slave Jew who stood in the wrong line \_ you lose. you are not really one of the 12 tribes. \_ I don't think you understand how it works. EVERYONE who was born of a jewish mother is a descendant of the 12 tribes. Now most people don't KNOW what tribe they belong to... but that's a different story. -- Jew \_ does that count for mothers who converted too? \_ no because she's definitely not one of the 12 tribes. if she can prove a connection to starbuck, apollo, or lorne greene then she can appeal to the elders of zion. \_ So Sammy Davis Jr isn't a chosen one? \_ Hey I'm totally from one of the 12 tribes. None of this lost battlestar galactica 13th tribe funny business for me! I just want my piece of the world! Is one small beach and some friendly natives so much to ask when the rest of my people are running the whole world? --op \_ Sorry, we don't have your piece of the world. You are asking the wrong people. asking the wrong people. And thanks for your insulting patronization of us natives. \_ I think Mahathir is still pissed that George Soros screwed his country during the Asian financial crisis. \_ if your country got fucked half as hard, you would of tossing nuclear warheads instead of just bitching about Jews |
| 2003/10/16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10646 Activity:low |
10/15 What the FUCK is wrong with these people?
The "Jews control the world" notion is supposed to be limited
to dumbshits. -nerdy asian
\_ you mean shiites?
http://csua.org/u/4pw
\_ It is, what's your point?
\_ agree, Jews controls US foreign policy, thus, in effect,
control the world.
\_ do you also believe there's a conspircy among long dicked black
men to rape your white wife? back to the 50's, you neanderthal.
\_ may be this would make you feel better, Malaysia has been
racially discrimiting ethnic Chinese for DECADES. So, Jewish
boys and girls, you are not alone.
\_ no, it doesn't. as a jew I don't think its ok that the malai
or anyone else are discriminating against more than just my
people. i feel as badly for the kurds, for example, as i do for
my own. the irish. the tibetans. what remains of the american
indians and those still there in southern mexico. and anyone
else you can think of who is abused for nothing more than being
different from the majority population. i hope you thought you
were being funny (you weren't) because the alternative is truly
sickening.
\_ It's not that simple. They are not "abused" just for being
"different from the majority". The chinese and jews control
much of the economic power and make up the business class.
There's much more to this than what the Kurds/Irish/Tibetans
have going on.
\_ Yet another racist canard. Please post your url that
proves the banks, businesses, etc are owned by those evil
zoggian jews and their wicked chinese business associates.
The very thought itself is standard racist drivel meant to
create an "us vs them" dichotomy so it's easier for the
weak minded to hate people they've never met. Again, I
would ask you to keep your racist fears of The Other off
the motd. I doubt anyone wants to hear your concerns about
black men with large dicks raping your wife, the vietnamese
family across the street dognapping your pet for a meal or
how you *know* that arab taxi driver went the wrong way
intentionally so he could fuck you for an extra buck. |
| 2003/10/10 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10569 Activity:nil |
10/9 Suppose I go on a cruise and the ship is in international water
where there is no jurisdiction from any government. What would
happen if there is murder or drug dealings or pot growing? Who
regulates and who enforces?
\_ The captain throws you overboard. -John
\_ this is one of those things that the cruise lines don't
want you to think about
\_ or, hypothetically, brainwash people into your bullshit
made-up religion...
http://www.scientology.org/en_US/religion/groups/pg011.html
\_ hint: all religions are made up.
\_ Nothing happens. I once raped 11 chicks on this one cruise. -kobeB
\_ "This one goes to eleven!"
\_ Doesn't the country where the ship is registered have jurisdiction?
If you and a chick voluntarily swim say 10ft away from the ship, and
then you rape her, that I don't know.
\_ Every square inch of this planet is under the legal jurisdiction of
some government and if they don't really have it they'll take it
anyway if your crime is serious enough.
\_ yep this is the de facto answer -- the de jure answer is the
country of registry has jurisdiction. however, liberia and
panama cannot be said to have global law enforcement
capabilities. --aaron
\_ Typically the person's country of citizenship will enforce its
law.
\_ Really? So how about, oh say, when some Arabs toss an old
Jewish guy in a wheel chair overboard after taking over the
ship at gun point?
\_ They make a bad opera out of it and punish everyone else.
Collective suffering, you know. -John
\_ Ever hear of International Law?
\_ Yes, no such thing. Where are the International Police and the
International Judges and the International Jails and under which
International Government do these 3 branches report to and why
have I yet to get a summons for International Jury Duty? |
| 2003/10/7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29558 Activity:nil |
10/6 I love this shit. This is not helping Middle Peace cause. Further,
I think North Korean has the right to "defend itself" as well :p
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3169402.stm
\_ Please restore properly.
\_ Ho hum, more anti-Israel trolling? Bored of Arnold? Ok, here goes:
NK civilians aren't being attacked in NK cafes a few times a week.
Troll fed. Now go away.
\_ Wasn't much of a troll. It only caught you, and you're under the
legal limit. |
| 2003/10/6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10493 Activity:moderate |
10/6 This is a serious troll. Who thinks Israel's action is a little
out of line? Maybe Cuba ought to fire a missile at Florida for
there's a lot of anti-cuban people there.
\_ No one in Florida is sending suicide bombers to Cuban cafes the
last I checked. If you're going to troll, you need to start
with a better premise. I salute your efforts, Young Troll, but
ready for trolling, you are not.
\_ Well, actually:
http://www.nscuba.org/Docs/Terrorism/TerrorActs-1.html
\_ And...there's been little more than "cause we said so" to
indicate the camp was active or that Syria has been responsible
for anything other than happening to be there.
\_ Well...it's Florida...how about Mississippi? It's almost as
close. Or Alabama.
\_ "We'll try to stay cool and calm
when Alabama gets the bomb!"
\_ "Israel must not feel constrained in terms of defending the
homeland." -GWB There Bush formally said it. Israel has a green
light to do whatever it feels like and not feel bound by
the Geneva Convention, International Law, or any other
pesky constraints. Watch them nuke Damascus next.
\_ How is this different from what they have been doing in the past?
Israel has bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor into oblivion, invaded
Lebanon, raided PLO's headquarters in Libya. What you see is a normal
state of affairs in the middle east.. |
| 2003/10/5-6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10479 Activity:low |
10/5 Two links from the drudgereport that Israel has just attacked terrorist
bases in Syria. They haven't had direct conflict with Syria in 20
years. If this escalates, the entire Palestinian thing is going to
be resolved with mass migration out of the war zones.
\_ they've had plenty of indirect ones, syria has been secretly
and not so secretly funding terrorist groups that pick
at Israel, for 20+ years.
\_ And Israel has sent in agents here and there to execute people.
That's still much different than seeing F16s flying over Syrian
territory dropping bombs. If a real wat breaks out, the gloves
are coming off and there won't be any more noise about 67 borders
or land for peace or concerns about if Arafat is alive or not.
We'll be talking about going back to the pre-2003 borders until
the next war.
\_ two links from the drudgereport? no shit. wow. it's also on
cnn, nytimes, aljazeera, foxnews, bbc, googlenews, etc etc, but
if it's in the drudgereport, it must be news.
\_ Idiot. The drugereport just refers you to all those other
places. It's a bookmark service, moron.
\_ then why mention it, jackass?
\_ Because, my intellectually diminshed young friend, it is
easier to say, "go to the drudgereport, that well known
news site bookmarking service" than to say, "here's a few
really fucking long URLs" or "here's the shortened URL
so you have no idea where the fuck I'm sending you". -op
\_ so why post a URL at all, since it's on literally
every news wire on the planet, you
fucking dildo ass wanker jerkoff punk.
\_ To start this thing called 'discussion' or
'debate' or 'argument'. You know...like on a
message board. Jesus H Christ, just admit you're
wrong, pretend to be somewhat mature, and STFU. -!op
\_ to avoid the inevitable "such-and-such newspaper is
biased" free for all. -!op
\_ all media have bias but "left vs right" is probably
not the most troublesome one. they're too profit
driven to effectively serve the public interest,
with biases that favor blood and sensationalism.
see al franken, eric alterman, joe conason for more.
\_ and this has what to do with the op directing
us to the drudge report to avoid the argument?
\_ nothing. that wasn't my reason for it at all. -op |
| 2003/10/5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10478 Activity:nil |
10/4 Israel's 'bomb squad pigs'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3159010.stm |
| 2003/9/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10160 Activity:nil |
9/11 Do you think the strongly pro-Israel side or the anti-Israel side
more aggresively deletes the motd?
\_ Hi Troll!
\_ maybe it is the apathetic apolitical side that is sick of hearing
about all these non-christian heathens
\_ anti-Israel comments are consistantly being deleted. That is why
earlier I made comment about motd censor being a Jew.
I am an Asian, most of my non-Asian friends are Jews. Being
political, I consider myself being relatively neutral in
Israel-Palestine issue. But motd censor like these is actually
fueling anti-semitism feelings... Jews really need to look at
history with a cold eye, as anti-semitism was a much more common
phenomenon throughout Europe (read, it's not just Nazi Germany,
though they were the most extreme). Such feeling would of easily
flare up again.
\_ You're babbling and the parts that are semi-coherent are simply
wrong. Everything gets censored on the motd. Now go tell your
mommy you've got a Jewish friend so it's ok for you to make shit
up about them like an expert.
\- dear mr light unto the motd: i think you've sawed off the
menorah branch you were sitting on. --psb
\_ Excuse me while I go back to my 67 borders in order to
buy peace and then jump in the sea. Never again, pal.
http://www.masada2000.org
\- thanks for not deleting but engaging. do you feel
it is reasonable to torture for information on
palestinian resistance activities, including
suicide bombing? [i am trying to state this in
fair language]. do you also support "visiting
the sins of the son on to the father" i.e. bulldozing
houses? --psb |
| 2003/9/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10152 Activity:high |
9/11 http://salon.com/politics/wire/2003/09/11/dean_israel/index.html Dean criticized for being too "evenhanded" about Israel. \_ While his views may be the same as Clinton and Bush Sr.'s, he didn't have the intelligence to not stick his foot in his mouth \_ evenhanded is a code word for "tell the Israelis to stop defending themselves and go back to '67 borders". Do you feel any different knowing what the phrase means? \_ You may have a point, but I have never, ever heard of "evenhanded" being used as a code word. I could just as easily say, for example, that "affirmative action is a code-word for the coloreds overrunning the country" or something stupid like that. \_ you could say anything you want but that wouldn't make it so. in this case, it is so. \_ What is wrong with asking Isreal to return a little land to the people they took it all from in return for peace? No one is asking Isreal to stop defending themselves.... Oh I get it, I have just been trolled. Nevermind. \_ You weren't trolled. You *are* a troll and an historically ignorant one at that. No cookie. \_ Wow. Well, for starters because it won't grant peace.... \_ I forgot... by continuing conquer Palestinian, treat the Arabs within Israel as less-than-second-class citizen Israel will achieve eternal peace. \_ Nice emotional knee-jerk logic there. Try picking up a decent history book and, you know, reading it. \_ Don't try to bring history, facts, or logic into a discussion about Israel and Palestine. You'll just be accused of being racist for not supporting the "Palestinian People", a ficticious people created in the 50's. \_ Yes, I see that now. And here I am trying to be reasonable with the ESL Anti-US Conspiracy Theory Guy. I loves de MOTD! \_ Fictitious people? Yes they don't exist. They are subhumans who have no rights. \_ Uhm, I don't think that's what the PP was saying. I *think* he was making a statement about the label being artificial and perhaps an oversimplification. *shrug* Maybe he'll speak up and clarify.... \_ "``It is unacceptable for the U.S. to be `evenhanded' on these fundamental issues,'' the letter said." Love it. \_ Of course it is. Even if "evenhanded" meant what you'd like it to mean, it would be unacceptable to support an enemy over an ally at any time for any reason. \_ Enemy? That's not US policy. Why don't you explain how "settlements" (as if the area wasn't already settled) are a just thing and why removing them is so unthinkable. |
| 2003/9/6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10104 Activity:high |
9/6 The final nail in the coffin:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3085810.stm
\_ may a palestinian civil war please happen!
\_ I'll laugh my ass off when they start suicide bombing each
other's cafes in the name of Allah or Palestine or humiliation
or Israeli oppression or whatever the idiocy of the week is.
\_ See, this is why a Palestinian state is a good idea. Let them have a
proper war instead of all this terrorism crap. |
| 2003/8/21 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29424 Activity:very high |
8/20 I leave the motd for a few hours and all the Jew bashing threads are
gone. How can I feel superior if you keep purging the Jew bashing?
\_ damn you Jew
\_ that is why I suspect the motd censor is a jew earlier. Whoever
behind the deletion of "Jew bashing" will actually fuel the
anti-semitism than helping it.
\_ You're an idiot. I was being sarcastic. You're exactly the
sort of racist fool I was _trying_ to insult. I'll make it
easier for you to understand next time. --op
\_ dude, did you guys actually go to Cal?
\_ Look, I'm as liberal as the next guy, but not supporting the
policies of Israel is not the same as Jew bashing, ok?
\- I shall soon issue a major statement on the Jews now that
I am done offending the homosexuals and blacks. --psb
\_ I'll bet you even have a Jewish friend, too, right? Or at
least there's a Jewish guy in one of your classes that showed
you his notes once and you didn't burn them. Next time, you
can draw a little yellow star of david on each page so he
knows you're in solidarity with him.
\_ i am jewish, and i grew up in a town that was 30% jewish.
probably about a third of my friends are jewish, and i
celbrate some of the jewish holidays. and i think
isreal can go fuck itself. |
| 2003/8/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29407 Activity:high |
8/19 This is a branch from the jouranlism/israel/palestine thread
below ... just out of curiosity, why do you anonymous but substantive
responders do so anonymously? i can understand if you are asking an
emnarassing question, saying something that will geet john ashcroft
to visit you but why in this dicussion? concerned about not having
your opinion dismissed because you are jewish? [i'm not one of those
people who are somehow offended or outraged by any and all anon
posts ... just curious]. ok tnx. --psb
\_ It just doesn't matter. The notion that signing a post somehow
magically legitamizes it or adds some sort of mystical validity is
stupid. If there was an advantage to signing, I would. But I have
yet to see a substantive reason aside from some snooty nincompoops
claims of some sort of fallacious code of nerdy chivalry. My
signature is not required for my ideas to have merit worthy of
consideration. *shrug*
\- well i certainly am able to separate the ideas from the man
but sometimes it does seems easier to know if i am talking
to the same person at all points in the coversation. maybe
you can sign with some hash. the default seems to be to sign
rather than not to. so if anything it's not signing that calls
for an explanation ... again i mean "calls for" in the sense
that "i wonder" not requires. suum cuique. --psb
\_ The default is to sign? Are we posting to the same motd??
I've been posting to motd for several years, and I have yet
to see this default in effect. It's cool that you can
separate the ideas from the man, and I certainly respect
that -- but this doesn't translate to any sort of tangible
advantage or reason in my mind. Additionally, I seriously
doubt that your point of view in this respect is the
'default'. A very high percentage of the people that
routinely sign seem to have quite vocal and anonymous anti-
fan clubs riding their coat-tails. This tends to water down
the content of a thread with needless ad hominem, obscuring
the OP's point.
\- sounds like you are a rationalizing animal.
it's just easier to have a lot of conversations
when they have more "state". e.g. a while back
someone asked for a reference on currency trading.
now it would be a lot easier to answer that question
if you had some sense if it was coming from someone
who had presented evidence of having a large or
small brain. etc. --psb
\-you know it's pretty easy to figure out who is non-idle
goes non-idle when the motd time stamp changes ...
especially if you have all these motd relics and watching
scripts in your home dir. lastcomm makes it even easier
but that is turned off on sloda. --psb
\_ Well, yeah. It's 3am. If I really cared that much,
I wouldn't post at all. I just see more advantages to
not signing and almost none the other way. I can
repeat my earlier points, but there seems little point.
Shoot me an email or something if you really want to
continue this debate....
\_ I sign my name or not based on a gut feeling of whether the message
would benefit from having my name included.
-- anon poster from palestine/israel thread
\_ labels. I don't like being label based upon my view and voice.
and there are plenty of people will happily perform targeted
censorship based upon these labels. You may not agree with me,
but I view targeted censorship as a form of repression.
Being anonymous is a form of protection from
such repression at a personal level.
\- well it seem to me if your concern is about censorship of your
ideas, i dont think it will make a whit of difference wheter
your posts are signed or not. [well unless maybe you have some
anti-fans like me :-)] in fact it might buy you slightly more
deference from the anon coward crowd. so if you think it will
engender some personal antimosity, i dunno if i'd call it
censorship. the target censors i believe mostly target ideas.
\_ i don't do it because aaron deletes my posts.
\_ one reason i post anonymously is i want the ideas to stand
on their own
\_ have you seen the move "the call me mr. crebbs"? --psb
\_ no, please explain
\- it's a movie about a black fellow |
| 2003/8/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29402 Activity:high |
8/19 Goddamn. Take a look at the video of the Iraq UN HQ bombing.
It took place when a Japanese camera crew was recording:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/870749.asp?0cv=CA00
\_ Gang of ulugs. -John
\_ can someone figure out how to d/l this or find a copy I/we
can save?
\- check out the story at:
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/israel.palestine/thestory.html
it's about a 15min video. --psb
"We try to educate them that beatings of journalists is unacceptible."
[later]
"I'm not worried about freedom of the press." [after taking away press
card of all palestinian journalists]
--head of israeli press office
\_ dang, talk about selective quoting. I sure as hell wouldn't
want Israel's policies in the U.S., but the man is clearly
speaking emotionally: (It's not unreasonable when
suicide bombers are killing non-military women and children,
cf. today's new bus bombing;
and no, Israeli oppression is definitely not grounds for
consciously killing innocents to liberate Palestine or for
revenge.)
"After all the violence of the past year, I found his
attitude had hardened," observes Naylor. "I'm not worried
about the press, freedom of the press," Seaman tells her.
"If there are any limitations to it, it'll be restored. Any
freedom can be restored - the lives of Israelis cannot be
restored."
\- journalists != suicide bombers. this is about censorship.
this wasnt about journalists broadcasting the locations
of israeli military to the otherside. maybe this is what
israel feels they have to do, but maybe they should stop
suggesting they are a common culture with societies that
would give more priority to press freedom. i do think
israeli courts have often made fair decisions after piss
poor ones by the legistature/executive/bureacracy. so i
think their commitment to legal authority is laudible.--psb
\_ Partha, Israel is a society under siege. I am surprised
how non-militant they are, all things considered.
The equivalent level of stress on american society would
be Oklahoma city bombings happening every week or two.
\- so you consider the current response restrained?
would you advocate torture and do you thing the
bulldozing of the houses as justifiable? --psb
\_ "Definitely not grounds"... so in your opinion could there
ever be any grounds for such killings? Hypothetically?
Israel is a democracy after all, and the "settlers" are
hardly innocent. People whose land is taken from them are
apt to fly off the handle. The phrase "under siege" could
be applied to Palestinians, as the Israeli policy appears
to have the goal of slowly assimilating their lands. E.g.
make things miserable enough that they give up, but avoid
international relations problems. Israel says making them
Israeli citizens is unthinkable, yet a viable Palestinian
state is also nixed, so instead there's this non-status.
Armed Israeli "settlements" have no ethical basis and lead
to further Palestinian displacement. |
| 2003/8/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29399 Activity:high |
8/19 http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac10.htm I'm not a rabid Israel hater like some on the motd, but I think this is a pretty good reminder that Israel is a state that was born from terrorism. However because they are "good terrorists" no one ever talks about it. The line between terrorist and freedom fighter is a shakey one. \_ 'Born from terrorism.' Pretty strong statement there. Are you sure you aren't rabid? |
| 2003/8/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29377 Activity:very high |
8/17 http://www.unknownnews.net/0626-2.html So, it seems like you could take almost any retail outlet down just by repeatedly asking them "Is this product made in Israel" \_ Not really. But you can certainly make a lot of paperwork for the employees that are just there to get by on crap salaries. \_ here's the law: http://www.bxa.doc.gov/antiboycottcompliance/part760oac.pdf see section (d) on page 24. \_ Great. Now we can get those racist Abercrombie bastards. \_ what are you accusing Abercrombie of exactly? \_ Go here: http://www.afjustice.com ! the above poster |
| 2003/8/13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29327 Activity:very high |
8/12 link:www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/6161002.htm It is illegal to say if something is made in Israel or not. What the hell? \_ BushCo shredded the 1st Amendment a long time ago. \_ the law dates back to the late 70s. Still odd. \_ if we really care about middle east peace, those stupid pro Isreal laws gotta go. |
| 2003/8/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:29282 Activity:insanely high |
8/8 So why did Israel break the ceasefire? No flames please, I am
seriously trying to understand this.
\_ ??? They didn't. URL, please. CNN reports nothing about it.
\_ http://sg.news.yahoo.com/030808/1/3d9km.html
\_ This says no such thing.
\_ It isn't a ceasefire when the other side is still shooting and
taking public 'credit' for killing your civilians. Can you ask
a more loaded question next time? Thanks!
\_ Please show me evidence that Hamas or Fatah is taking
"credit" for this. That is what I was asking for.
\_ Arafat's boys have taken credit for several attacks
recently. Read the papers everyday. I shouldn't have to
provide you proof that the sky is blue or water is wet.
\_ Did you read about the recent kidnappings of israeli teens by
terror groups? Israel never broke any ceasefire agreements
first.
\_ How about that big wall cutting into Palestinian land? I guess
they should be proud the land is going to better use huh?
\_ Oh yeah, a little construction vs actual kidnapping and
murder.
\_ I thought they were still classified as "missing."
\_ One was found dead recently. Some palestinians tried to
force a soldier into their car recently, but ran when he
\_ I think you're misusing the term 'flame'.
cocked his rifle. His superiors gave the soldier a hard time
for not firing and ending their reign of terror.
\_ I did not know this. Thanks for telling me. I know
the US media only ever gets 1/2 of the story and
usually the details all mixed up at that.
\_ I think even mentioning Israel on the motd qualifies as a flame.
Its almost like a motd corallary of Godwin's law.
\_ I think you're misusing the term 'flame'. You probably mean
'troll'.
\_ very good point... shall we call it the MOTD Corallary and
try to circulate it in general use? Someone mail the jargon
file.
\_ About the infamous West Bank wall. I am wondering whether the
Palestinian claims that the wall is a land grab attempt is true and
to what degree. Does anyone have a URL for a map that shows where
this wall will pass and Israel's actual internationally recognized
border?
\_ What's so infamous about a wall? If Canadians were coming over
the border to commit suicide bombings every day, we'd not only
start building walls, but raid and invade parts of Canada on a
near daily basis until we broke their will or killed every last
one of them. Walls? That's tame compared to what most any
other country would do in Israel's position.
\_ In order to have an internationally recognized border, your
existence must be internationally recognized. Israel isn't
while numerous other 3rd world states with infinitely worse
human rights records (such as *all* of their neighbors) are.
How can anyone seriously expect the Israelis to respect anything
"international" when they don't even exist legally to a large
chunk of the planet?
\_ I meant the internationally recognized border as in what UN
and countries who do recognize the state of Israel think
their border is. And please don't change the topic. I asked
for the map, not an excuse for building the security wall.
And BTW, Jordan and Egypt have signed peace agreements
with Israel a long time ago, so it's not like none of their
neighboors are not recognizing them.
\_ fortunately, our local google hater has not yet brought
google to it's knees.
http://www.gush-shalom.org/thewall
\_ True, they did. After getting beaten into submission.
Several times. Anyway, to answer your question, there
really isn't such a thing. You want the pre-67 borders?
Post-67? What about all the deadman's land both
populations have expanded into since 47? There just
aren't any nice clean lines anywhere. That's part of the
problem. Borders aren't real. If someone pays you taxes
they're inside your borders, if not then not.
\_ It is exactly this kind of idiotic thinking that has
put Israel in the position it is today, with 200k
settlers smack dab in the middle of 3.5M Arabs,
neither of who is going to move. This desire to
have it all will inevitably lead to Israel's demise,
at least as a Jewish state. Perhaps it will live on
as a multi-secular state, sort of like Lebanon. Too
bad you didn't reign in the fanatics while you still
could have. It is too late now.
\_ Israel can't be a multi secular state because one
of your segments wants to genocide the other major
segment and 'push them into the sea'. Yes, it's
now too late for the Muslim fanatics to genocide
the Jews.
\_ By that "thinking," it was alwas "too late" for
Israel. 5 million Jews in smack dab in the middle
of 200-300 million Arabs, a lot less than 6%.
Also, I wouldn't trust a map that declares,
"The Palestinians agreed to settle for 22%," when
so many are holding out for more.
\_ Anyone who calls Lebanon a "multi secular state"
has no business advising anyone on their affairs.
Lebanon is a chaotic puppet state run by Syria and
has been for decades. You're either deeply confused
and misinformed or just plain nutty.
\_ What would you call it then? There are people
of more than one religion there, aren't there?
Being like Lebanon is not a thing to aspire to.
\_ I'd call it a Syrian run shit hole puppet
state, just like I called it above but with
extra emphasis because you didn't read it
the first time. Lebanon is not a country.
They don't have a government of any note.
Holding up Lebanon as an example of something
to emulate is simply bizarre. If your only
standard to call something a multi whatever
state is 'people of more than one religion
there', then every country in the world
fits your description, many of them far better
than the wreck that is Lebanon.
\_ This is the kind of future Israel has
bought for itself. Watch and see. If
you are not familiar with Lebanon's
attempt to set up a multi-ethnic
Constitution and the resulting civil
wars, then more the pity to be you.
Not that history is your strong point,
but Syria has only occupied the country
since 1990, not "many decades" as you claim. |
| 2003/8/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29205 Activity:very high |
8/1 Fence vs. Wall. Who the hell calls a concrete structure a fence?
\_ What the heck are you talking about?
\_ Israel's new "security barrier". It's a fence in some
places, and a wall in others.
\_ your defense is only as good as its weakest point, thus a fence
\_ C'mon, the anti-Israel troll lobby has smeared the motd enough
lately. Give it a rest or come up with something original. We
all know, understand, and agree that killing all the Jews is the
right answer to freeing the poor oppressed innocent harmless
Palestinian freedom fighters, ok? Just let it go. It's done.
\_ That's right. Anyone who says anything bad about anything
Isreal has ever done is secretly an anti-Semite who wants
to kill all the jews. You tell em!
\_ I did tell em! At least we agree on something finally. Jews
are bad, Arabs are good, dead Jews are better still.
\_ I want to know who the hell has heard of a "concrete fence".
\_ The Great Wall of Israel?
\_ The Great Fence of Israel, you anti-Israeli troll!
\_ It's the only right thing to do. You can only throw hand grenades
so far over an 8 meter concrete wall. -John
\_ Of course it is the right thing to do... but it's a fucking
wall, not an 8 meter concrete fence...
\_ Why is it nobody ever seems to mention that there is a fence around
Gaza and there is only a small percentage of the violence that
stems from there? |
| 2003/7/22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29095 Activity:nil |
7/21 [Israel/Palestine discussion censored. I didn't really understand
what the point was anyway.]
\_ yeah, neither did I... but I was kind of enjoying the momentary
motd notoriety - rory |
| 2003/7/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29089 Activity:high |
7/21 Rory Solomon, this is no way to live a life. You are consumed with
the motd and that is bad. Being the self-appointed Jewish Motd
Reactionary serves no purpose. I hate seeing a young man with a bright
future wasting his life away at the motd. Checking it every minute
and jumping at any thread that has the words "Jew" or "Israel" in it.
For your own good; you're better off spending your time volunteering
at a Jewish Community center than trying to defend Israel in a
forum that most people here know is a joke. -yarofatslav
\_ Could someone explain what this is about? I have no idea. I haven't
posted to the motd in days... and if you really want to get into it,
I would describe myself as sympathizing more strongly with Palestine.
WTF?? - rory
\_ There are some weird people on motd. I wouldn't worry about it.
\_ And they're often *very* *very* wrong about who is posting
what. I don't know why rory would want to fall under any
of these http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sympathize
definitions with a bunch of murderers like the PLO but hey,
if you wanna hang out with butchers, it's your right.
\_ Troll alert! Danger, will robinson, danger!
\_ No troll. It's all true. Sorry you don't like reality.
\_ Yes, every Palestinian is a member of the PLO automatically
at birth whether they like it or not. Thank you for
having the good sense to recognize this.
\_ Maybe if they didn't dance in the streets on camera
after 9/11 I might feel sympathy for them but for now,
I agree with John.
\_ For some reason, your response reminds me of the
Ku Klux Klan scene in O Brother Where Art Thou
\_ Nice round about way of getting in the "Nazi!"
slam! Your sociology professor would be proud!
That was much better than coming up with some
meaningful statement of fact or an opinion on the
topic itself while still making a personal attack
that almost didn't quite look like one. But it
did. I'll be happy to chat with you on any topic
when you can stick to the topic and not make it
into a personal attack.
\_ Have you seen that scene before? |
| 2003/7/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29024 Activity:high |
7/13 http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=424237 It's rare that a Middle East story is funny. \_ you have a weird sense of humor. damn, i've been \_ you have a weird sense of humor. damn, I've been trolled! I hate you. Where is this palestinian state? Sweden? \_ It was funny. But are you really that ignorant? \_ He's trolling. Don't be so naive. \_ You're not trolled. I really thought it was funny. -op \_ They could move it to the Jewish Autonomous Republic (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Republic Since Jews aren't living there anyways. \_ a similar poll shows that 80% of the Israelis believe that a peace negotiation would work while 75% of the Palestinians believe that a negotiation will work IFF **every single one of the Israelis** leave Israel. Go figure. \_ Now, *this* is a troll. \_ At least the Palestinians are asking for something reasonable. They just want their land back and to restore their country to what it was before it was stolen. \_ please explain why, by your logic, we should not return california to mexico. or do you think that's a good idea also? \_ and Mexico to all those Native Americans. \_ yes. everyone should go back to where they came from. what's wrong with restoring the world to the way it was before white people over ran everyone? |
| 2003/7/5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28928 Activity:nil |
7/4 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=314457&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y Finally. The Iranians have used North Korean technology to develop a missile that can hit Israel. Once they finish or buy their first nuke, we can all finally be rid of the jews. \_ PAC-2 and Arrow 2 will take out anything hurled that way. |
| 2003/6/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28860 Activity:high |
6/28 An interesting article, first posted by a racist half-wit, about
a British professor's well-intentioned but misguided attempt to
bring light to human rights abuses in the Israeli-Palestinian
conflict: http://csua.org/u/3fc
\_ I doubt it was really posted by a racist half-wit. it was probably
a bored troll working overtime who didn't bother to read the text
but saw an inflamatory-sounding headline somewhere on the net,
added an even more inflamatory-sounding tagline, and posted it
to get people riled up. By changing the tagline, you might have
ruined their one chance for enterntainment while trapped in their
cubicle on a sunday. or maybe it really was a racist half-wit.
\_ The human rights abuses? You mean where the palestinians are
raising their own children to walk into discos, hotels, and pizza
\- so stipulating what you write above is true, what
do you think it says when "parents are raising their
children to walk into discos and blow themselves up"
that the palestianian parents dont care about their
kids? does it suggest to you that the conditions they
are living under and their long terms prospects are
just fine? i'm not suggesting suicide bombing is
necessarily a justified thing to do even under the
circumstances, but it does suggest that the circumstances
are not pleasant. i dont buy the "oh anyone can be
manipulated into anything" view or that israel has
nothing to do with their conditions. --psb
\_ psb, I am disappointed... -- ex psb fan
\- gee, imagine if said what i really think. --psb
parlors and blow up themselves and as many civilians as possible?
Or did you mean the part where the palestinians and most of the
rest of the arabs world both at the government and street level
is still unwilling to acknowledge Israel has a right to exist and
still intends genocide? Or did you mean the part where others arabs
such as in Jordan have killed literally 100x as many palestinians
than Israel has and usually in a mass killing of tens of thousands
at a time that doesn't get reported in the western press? Or maybe
one of the other zillion atrocities committed by arabs on arabs
over the last several decades? Help me out, which of these human
rights abuses was the oxford professor trying to bring light to
with his very private, very illegal, and very racist email?
\- you know i suspect this guy made a mistake "putting it
in writing" but i think there is a lot of positive
selection [in the sense of selecting for certain people
rather than selectign against] under the covers ... surely
you've seen the romanian/indian/taiwanese/israeli prof
with 75% r/i/t/i students. i'm sure there is similar
antipathy among indian profs towards pakistani students,
probably somethink like that among the chinese, maybe
with japanese and korea etc. again this isnt exculpatory
but suggests it isnt extraordinary ... except maybe for
the jewish crowd suggesting this is unique persecution.
--psb
\_ We all know the poor poor palestinians, being the victims,
are entitled to send their teen children to blow themselves up.
Its an inalienable natural right, like sodomy. Forget that the
the PLO and most of the Arab world were Soviet client states
for 45 of the past the 55 years, that Yasser is a communist...
whats the point, people conveniently ignore
uncomfortable facts. |
| 2003/6/17 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28747 Activity:nil |
6/16 Last question on Israeli/Palestinian issue. This is a question
\_ Hah! Haha! Hahaha!
for those who are in support of Israel:
One of the justification for the Israel is that it is a land promised
by God. However, based upon my limited knowledge, God has promised
a land which is a lot a lot bigger than the current Israel even if
Westbank AND Gaza Strip are included. My question is 1. Are
majority of Israeli desire to claim the rest of the promised land
eventually? 2. For those American / American Jews who support of
Israel, would you support Israel if Israel use this as an excuse
initiate invasion of, let say Jordan, Syria and other neighbors so
the promise in the Bible can be fulfilled?
\_ TROLL!
\_ I would imagine that a vast majority of Israelis do not have the
extreme viewpoint of the whole Promised Land justification.
They just want peace.
\_ TROLL!
\_ Cmon now. Like any faith they will interpret or ignore the facts
to fit their 'word of God'. 1. No, the settler types are few,
maybe just over 100k, and are viewed as fringe. Israel is a very
secular country on many levels, don't make the mistake of
thinking that Israel's "jewishness" is all about religion --
jewishness is a complex mix of ethnicity, culture, and religion.
Most Israelis are not religious. 2. Learn English. --aaron
\_ You are down playing the role of religion on this. Hate
to say this, but the way Israeli evicting Palestinians are
pretty similar to the way Nazi evictings Jews just a decade
earlier. Their main "justification" for it *IS* that it is
"THEIR" land promoised by GOD. Further, if religion is not
an issue, then, why Israel want Jerusalem so bad?
-- OP
\_ You know, it's sad enough already that Godwin's Law
pops up so often, but it's even more pathetic when people
start trolling just for the sake of starting an argument
in which they can (yet again, sigh) prove it. -John
\_ TROLL! |
| 2003/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28743 Activity:moderate |
6/16 Last question on Israeli/Palestinian issue. This is a question
for those who are in support of Israel:
One of the justification for the Israel is that it is a land promised
by God. However, based upon my limited knowledge, God has promised
a land which is a lot a lot bigger than the current Israel even if
Westbank AND Gaza Strip are included. My question is 1. Are
majority of Israeli desire to claim the rest of the promised land
eventually? 2. For those American / American Jews who support of
Israel, would you support Israel if Israel use this as an excuse
initiate invasion of, let say Jordan, Syria and other neighbors so
the promise in the Bible can be fulfilled?
\_ I would imagine that a vast majority of Israelis do not have the
extreme viewpoint of the whole Promised Land justification.
They just want peace.
\_ TROLL!
\_ I would imagine that a vast majority of Israelis do not have the
extreme viewpoint of the whole Promised Land justification.
They just want peace.
\_ TROLL!
\_ Cmon now. Like any faith they will interpret or ignore the facts
to fit their 'word of God'. 1. No, the settler types are few,
maybe just over 100k, and are viewed as fringe. Israel is a very
secular country on many levels, don't make the mistake of
thinking that Israel's "jewishness" is all about religion --
jewishness is a complex mix of ethnicity, culture, and religion.
Most Israelis are not religious. 2. Learn English. --aaron
\_ You are down playing the role of religion on this. Hate
to say this, but the way Israeli evicting Palestinians are
pretty similar to the way Nazi evictings Jews just a decade
earlier. Their main "justification" for it *IS* that it is
"THEIR" land promoised by GOD. Further, if religion is not
an issue, then, why Israel want Jerusalem so bad?
-- OP
\_ You know, it's sad enough already that Godwin's Law
pops up so often, but it's even more pathetic when people
start trolling just for the sake of starting an argument
in which they can (yet again, sigh) prove it. -John
\_ TROLL! |
| 2003/6/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28701 Activity:nil |
6/10 More stupid question on Israeli-Palestinian issue:
Since Gaza Strip used to belong to Egypt, then, why there are so
many Palestinian people there? Is it because during the creation of
Israel and 1967 War that Palestinians were being herd there in flock?
Or other reasons?
\_ Palestine has almost always belonged to somebody else, but the
Palestinians have always lived there. I think they are in the
Gaza Strip because the Israelis didn't want that land.
\_ I say someone "accidently" set off a nuclear bomb in that area
so they can all stop fighting over it. I think Russia, U.S.,
even South Africa, has a lot of land that size that is not being
used, let alone fought over.
\_ if anything, it's Israel that need to be relocated, no?
\_ no.
\_ No one 'herded' anyone anywhere. God, why do I respond to trolls?
At the creation of Israel, various arab "leaders" told their people
to leave because they were going to invade and kill all the Jews
anyway and it's easier to genocide someone if there aren't friendly
civilians around getting in the way. The arabs invaded and got
their asses handed to them and then abandoned the palestinians to
an eternity of doom by not taking them into their own lands as the
Israelis had done for Jews who got kicked out of their arab-ruled
counrties by force. You can find much better and more detailed
histories all over the net and in a zillion books. Please stop
trolling the motd. Thank you. |
| 2003/6/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28684 Activity:very high |
6/9 Israel-Palestine question. Most people agree that return of
1967 border and waive the right of refugee's return is somewhat
more viable peace plan than anything else. My question is: I
thought that Gaza Strip was taken away from Egypt. Howcome that
during the discussion of Palestine statehood, no one talked about
returning Gaza Strip back to Egypt?
Ignorant Chinese
\_ The West Bank was taken from Jordan, so you should be asking
the same question about Jordan. But Jordan doesn't want to
deal with the West Bank, and Egypt probably doesn't want to
deal with Gaza.
\_ because Israel is no way no how going to give that back to Egypt.
\_ hey moron - Israel *wanted* and *wants* to give the gaza back
to egypt. If you read up on the peace plans of the past, Egypt
refused - they didn't want to deal with it either.
\_ yeah... Israel *wants* to give the gaza back. I thought
Gaza Strip is part of the promise land.
\_ I just thought that i would make more sense, and it shows
a good gesture to the Arab world that Israel is serious about
the settlement. Further, it can deflect some of the problem
to Egypt... let Egypt to deal with Palestinians in the Gaza
Strip.
\_ Here's the real answer: Jordan doesn't want the West Bank back.
Egypt doesn't want the Gaza Strip back. Why? Because they're both
packed full of palestinians. *No one* wants palestinians in their
country. They're kept in poverty and in permanent refugee status
by the other Arabs to give their dictators something to distract
their own people from their own very real problems. There were
hundreds of thousands of Jews all over the middle east who got
forcefully evicted from their homes. Places where Jews had lived
for more than a thousand years in many cases. Israel took them all
in. No country has taken in the palestinians and never will. The
palestinians are considered garbage people by the other Arabs. As
far as "most people agree", you should find a larger set of people
to talk to. Israel will never go back to the '67 borders. They
aren't defendable. As far as the right of return goes, they have no
more right than the Jews have to return to their homes: none. ok,
enough being trolled.
\_ This is true... Kuwait evicted all of its Palestinians
after GWI, the Saudis also evicted and put others in camps.
Jordan is over 50% Palestinian.
\_ Might also want to look up massacres of
Palestinians and expulsion of PLA/PLO by Jordan in
1970. -John
\_ hey, I am just looking at this whole situation and trying to
make sense of it. I just thought that a Palestine State (for
sake of arguement, 100% of West Bank) AND Gaza Strip is not
viable at all. And by the way, I don't buy the "undefendable
border" arguement. If you look at the national border over the
world, you will see borders, for the most part, are not
defendable. --OP
\_ Ummm.. Maybe so, but most places
A) Don't get much choice about it regularly
B) Aren't surrounded by other countries obseessed with
killing them, and them in particular.
\_ So you think once there's a "viable Palestinian state" that
the various palestinian terrorist groups will suddenly stop
killing Israelis and the rest of the arab nations will put
Israel on the maps they use in their grade schools?
Israel on the maps they use in their grade schools? While
we're trolling on Israel, what do you think of China releasing
Tibet and also stop threatening to invade Taiwan and let it
be independent? Or maybe the other way? Tibet and Taiwan
should STFU and stop rejecting their natural motherland?
< non related topic deleted >
\_ Terrorism is an act of desperation. Mind you that
there was once upon a time when Arab nations were
reasonable, rational, and even democratic. But we
took advantage of that by creating an Israeli state,
evicted people who lived there close to 2000 years, and
installed pro-western government so we can extract
oil from them. If we were following the democratic
principle, Israel wouldn't of created at first place.
\_ Why are they packed full of palestinians?
\_ Because palestinians breed like rats and no one and I mean
*no one* wants rats in their house.
\_ Interesting. My boss is Palestinian. He may be overweight
and a blowhard, but I can't say he's been breeding like a
rat. |
| 2003/5/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28561 Activity:high |
5/27 Not a big deal, just funny in a absurd way:
AP - Late Monday, Israeli soldiers fired on four diplomatic vehicles
in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun, diplomats said. No one was
hurt. ... two bullets hit the windshield of the Swiss Consulate's
armored car, and diplomatic cars of Sweden, Denmark and the European
Union also came under fire.
The military expressed regret, saying soldiers fired to break up a
crowd of Palestinians and bullets inadvertently hit the diplomat's
vehicle. http://csua.org/u/317
\_ http://www.masada2000.org
\_ Israel has no respect of international law whatsoever, this is just
one of many acts. Intercept ship in interntaional water a week
ago is just another example. If Israel really want to win the
legimacy, it will need to play by the rules, otherwise, it is no
different from the sucide bombers it is fighting against.
\_ Bad Jew! Stop defending yourself! Bad Jew! Bad! Role over
and die to make French and Arabs happy! Bad Jew! Die Jew! Die!
Never again, son, never again. |
| 2003/5/26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28553 Activity:high |
5/25 Does anyone think Sharon is really going to stick by his word?
http://www.counterpunch.org/sharon.html
\_ Let say, give him benefit of the doubt, he is going to. But
how much control does he really has over this matter? It's
interesting that Israel, which founded based upon the act of
terror (zionist movement against the British rule at the time),
is plagued by the very same act which the nation is build upon.
Same thing can be said about United States and its racist root.
\_ I learned in elementary that United States fought the
civil war to help African Americans and that Lincoln
is kind to people of all colors. US is anything
but racist because my elementary teacher said so.
\_ Lincon rallied the war effort on the slogan of
"preserve the Union," not "abolish the slavery,"
as there are a lot of people in the North don't necessary
support it. Only after the battle of Gettysburg, when
Northen.
Northen victory is assured, then Lincon brought the issue
of slavery to the nation. Even afer that, Blacks
didn't get any political right until the 1960's.
From the establishment of colonies in the 1400's, until
civil rights movement 30+ years ago, i am sorry, but
racism is part of American culture. America has
made tremedous progress in this issue, but racism
is a such natural part of social DNA that it has great
tendency to going back to its racist past. Cock's
report on Chinese spying, and today's homeland security
\_ Except the Chinese *are* spying.
\_ So are the Israelis.
\_ Yeah, that's why Pollard is still in
jail. What's Israel got to do with
this? So do many other allies. Why
do you go out of your way to mention
Israel? Hate Jews recently?
\_ Err ... this thread started out
with Sharon. Last I checked, he
civil war.
is still a Jew. Why, if anyone
mentions any negative facts
about Israel, she is a Jew hater?
\_ Because the topic had changed
on this subthread to something
unrelated to Israel and as
usual the we-hate-Jews committee
crawled out from under their
rock. It gets pointed out a
lot because the Jew haters do a
lot of crawling around here. Why
do you never mention the 300+
other countries with far worse
records for just about any
negative behaviour? Because you
hate Jews. I understand that it
isn't a concious choice, that
you were raised with it and Jew
hating is not only acceptable
but a good thing in many places
and families but it isn't going
to hit the motd without comment.
targeting Arabs are just couple examples. How to steer
\_ And the terrorists *are* Arabs.
America away from its natural tendency is the challenge
which constantly plaguing the leader of this nation.
\_ There were several proposals to save the union
before the civil war, and all of these deal
almost exclusively with slavery issues. Slavery
and its abolishment is the central issue of the
civil war. - chinese dude
\_ to say US fought civil war, thus, US is not
racist is an gross simplification.
\_ 'racist' is such a tired, overused word. Sorry
to say, but it's such an abused catch-all that
it no longer carries much weight. -John
\_ RACIST! |
| 2003/5/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28345 Activity:nil |
5/5 I say we invade Israel for possesing weapon of massive destruction
and consistant records of violation of international laws, and
aggression toward its neighbors.
\_ And being the only mid east state to allow arabs to vote and the
mid east state responsible for the fewest arabs deaths in the last
50 years and the only democratic mid east state and the only mid
east state to support the US in the UN general assembly more than
20% of the time. Those jew bastards, I so hate having such a solid
democratic ally in such an ugly part of the world. We should ally
ourselves with peace loving terrorist dictatorships like the PLO.
\_ Democracy has NOTHING to do with it. Lighten up. Look at
our OTHER allies: Saudi Arabia? Kuwait? UAE? what do they have
in common? Absolute Monarchy! And... if anything, *IRAN* has
a democracy! It just that their democracy is very different
than what we got over here.
\_ You can't have a democracy if there is no freedom of ideas,
freedom of the press, etc. If you're too progressive, you'll
get the death sentence in Iran...
-dated an Iranian, I guess that makes me an expert.
\_ It's really simple, Sam: If the other side has suicide bombers,
all bets are off.
\_ Stupid logic trap. Suicide bomber are only thing they got.
without it, Israel will never even consider return land
which they conquered. |
| 2003/4/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28274 Activity:high |
4/30 Initially when we went into Somalia, the people loved the US troops.
We brought them food and they were fed. After the situation stabilized
the Somalis turned against us. And culminated by dragging a dead US
soldiers through the streets. Beware that history might repeat
itself.
\_ Tell that to George W. "I look to history, but only selectively"
Bush.
\_ Wow, that's a really cool rewrite of history. I like how you saw
a hollywood movie made from a book and then decided how the world
works from there and can be applied to all other cases the same way.
I'm glad you don't work in foreign affairs. Keeping hacking java.
Stick with what you know, you'll do better.
\_ Yea, like I said, this looks like another Palestine, except a few
times larger.
\_ Somalia was never stablized. Warlords ruled most of the country.
The US went in to cover food aid and then got mixed up in nation
building. Right now, Afghanistan is a closer match but without
constant media showing Somalia's millions of starving. Iraq will
be MUCH different from both. I agree with the Palestine analogy.
\_ Only difference is that unlike Israel, US civilians are not
at the scene, and hence not as exposed. Hopefully US military
personnel fend for themselves better. Otherwise, it can get
ugly. |
| 2003/4/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28196 Activity:very high |
4/23 The following dating simulation may be useful to sodans:
http://philip.greenspun.com/dating
\_ I feel like I'm reading his tcl tutorial - danh
\_ Where's your pride, man? Surely a Sodan can write a better
(and more witty) dating simulation than those MIT twits!
\_ ED!
\_ And to top it off, it's from Greenspun. Somehow that guy
has an uncanny ability to get under my skin. I just read
something he wrote on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict
that had a level of insight, analysis, and self-confidence
I'd expect from a 15 year old. Everything I encounter from
that guy manages to annoy the hell out of me.
\_ This http://philip.greenspun.com/politics/israel you mean?
Not only is it well written but it's backed by facts, quotes,
links, numbers, and historical context. Things that would
piss off the typical anti-Israeli motd poster.
\_ There's plenty of stuff in that article to piss
off the typical pro-Israeli motd poster. - danh
\_ she is ugly
\_ Why is this such a common theme? Seems like people set
expectations very high in this regard.
\_ because CSUA geeks are the epitome of male beauty. -tom
\_ especially raytrace... --scotsman
\_ At worst she's simply not your standard over inflated http://pr0n.net
whore. She's a reasonably attractive white chick who hasn't had
artificial 'enhancements'. She's also at MIT. She also gets
laid. In summary, she's more attractive than you, smarter than
you and has better sex than you (anything is better than none).
She's got my vote. |
| 2003/4/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28152 Activity:high |
4/16 I actually like the idea, as long as it apply to all nations in
the middle east
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2955161.stm
\_ Cool so 150 million screaming arabs with boards with nails in
them can push the fuckin jews into the sea. Good plan, well
thought out, especially considering which "side" will be under
more intense scrutiny to comply. Good nukes make good neighbors,
at least they have so far. -John
\_ I think the situation has become a lot more complicated than
"Israel has nukes". Face it, if anyone attacked Israel the
US would invade in days. This is no longer the 60s.
\_ So you think it's in Israel's best interests to be completely
dependent on the US's good will for their survival? That's
totally insane. What happens when the anti-Israel nutheads
eventually get elected and leave them to rot? "Oh, oops,
sorry, you should've had your own nukes!" Especially since
the US has such a shitty record of keeping promises.
\_ Isreal was able to defend itself against its neighbors three
times without the use of nukes.
\_ No. The last time things got tense and they let everyone
know they were ready to do it. And no one has tried again
since, at the army level. BTW, Israel hasn't even admitted
they have any, let alone 1000+. They won't give em up.
\_ And it was *very* *very* close to getting wiped out twice.
Go pick up a book on military history. You'll note no one
has launched a full scale invasion since the time they're
believed to have developed nukes? Think about it. If it
was the other way around you *know* Israel would have already
been nuked in a first strike. You're either naive or
something unspeakable worse.
\_ I don't think anyone would launch a first strike nuke
attack on Israel (or Germany, or Japan...), because
the consenquence would be a serious beatdown from the US.
\_ Any nation that depends on another for it's survival is
already doomed.
\_ "No man is an island"
\_ Nuking Isreal doesn't make any sense for the Arabs;
the reason they hate Isreal is it's occupying lands
they view as sacred. -tom
\_ Has Isreal ever even lost a battle against the Arabs?
\_ obviously you skipped Seder last night.
\_ No one has launched a full scale invasion of Israel
since they all got their asses handed to them and
Israel took over the West Bank and a chunk of Egypt
(subsequently returned). Do not confuse causality
with circumstance.
\_ Like getting their asses handed to them the first two
times made a difference? No. That's why there were
three attacks. There hasn't been one since '73 not
because the Arabs might get crushed again (we know this
because as stated it happened *3* times) but because of
the only change in the status quo, namely Israel has
the bomb.
\_ Check out the Federation of American Scientists:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke
According to this, Israel had nukes *before* the
1973 attack, and that did not deter it. After
1973, the economy and the politics of the region
changed, and the annihilation of Israel took a
backseat. After Egypt and Israel signed a peace
treaty, invasion became a non-issue: Syria, Jordan,
and Lebanon are too weak to force the issue, and
Saudi Arabia has its own issues to work out.
\_ What is "unspeakable worse" in your worldview?
Just curious. |
| 2003/4/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28089 Activity:nil |
4/11 It's open season on Palestinian activists.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=396369 |
| 2003/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:28059 Activity:nil |
4/9 A reminder of how Israel was founded
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2930279.stm
\_ From your own link, "Reports suggest that an Israeli-made grenade
was found near the gates of the school and went off when students
touched it." And tonight's lesson on troll detection: if the OP
didn't read their own link and then lies outright about the link
topic (usually on a hot button issue), then the troll factor will
sky rocket. Nice try trollboy. No cookie. |
| 2003/4/3 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27968 Activity:high |
4/3 That Jessica Lynch is tough. I heard she shot several Iraqis and
she didn't want to be taken alive. Two broken legs, broken arm,
and at least one gunshot wound.
\_ She's a Palestinian.
\_ Uh, no, she's not. She's from Palestine, West Virginia. She's
as white and American as a girl can get.
\_ the guy above was joking...
\_ What do you call someone from Philadelphia?
She's a Palestinian. This is a useless but
correct fact.
\_ Do you have a URL you can post? This is interesting.
\_ turn on cnn/msnbc/foxnews/cbs/whatever for 30 seconds.
\_ like saving private ryan
\_ no, nothing like saving private ryan.
\_ Don't forget that she was also stabbed.
\_ How'd she get the broken legs and broken arm?
\_ I'm only guessing here, but from bullets?
\_ Good assumption.
\_ or maybe a little retrobution after she ran outta bullets and
\_ or maybe a little retribution after she ran outta bullets and
got captured.
\_ I wonder why the Iraqi soldiers didn't execute her or sexually
assault her. I thought extreme Muslims treat women with little
respect.
\_ Well, they said she was crying all the time. Maybe they just
couldn't do it.
\_ you dont know what they did to her.
\_ We're pretty sure they didn't execute her, though.
\_ Clones! |
| 2003/4/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27935 Activity:nil |
3/31 Sharon is preparing the new Palestinian homeland:
http://www.iht.com/articles/91651.html
\_ Ok, I have read the entire article and couldn't find either
"Palestinian" or "homeland" mentioned even once in it.
\_ You have to read between the lines. Sharon is maneuvering a
Syrian war so that he can transfer the Palestinians there,
which the current peace treaty prevents. |
| 2003/3/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27915 Activity:nil |
3/30 The suicide bombings in Iraq will make the war look like:
Israel invading Palestine:
Israel invading Lebannon:
US invading Somalia: . |
| 2003/3/29 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27901 Activity:nil |
3/28 Additional info about Rachel Corrie (lost the person vs. bulldozer
contest a while ago, picture link was posted here)
http://csua.org/u/be2
If you don't like it, ignore it. Don't delete it.
\_ obhowcanyoubereadingworldnetdaily
\_ I read (and check) the facts. I also read Molly Ivins. So?
\_ I've read pretty much the same thing from several other sources.
You think NPR is a better source of unbiased news? How about
Pravda? They publish Pravda in English on the net now, but you
probably knew that already.
\_ obhowcanyoubereadingworldnetdaily
\_ Please stop deleting this you hoser. -emarkp |
| 2003/3/25-26 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27842 Activity:high |
3/25 Want to learn the truth, the *real* truth about what's going on in
the war, Greater Palestine, and the Muslim world in general?
http://www.arabnews.com and link:english.aljazeera.net
They're a bit slow but that's only because so many people have found
an alternative to the lies you're being fed.
\_ You know, I was always taught to suspect anyone claming to peddle
"the *real* truth" about anything. -John
\_ You know that this is actually posted by an anti-arab trying
to show how stupid arabs can be.
\_ Hm I thought it was being posted by someone trying to
show how stupid arabnews and al jazeera are. -John
\_ I posted this comment before and it was instantly
deleted. "Al Jazeera" is Arabic for "Fox News."
\_ Because your comment was opinated drivel and based on
nothing. If you backed it up with some facts you
\_ What's the need? The Muslim world has been at a standstill
for 700 years. Nothing has changed. Pedophile camel jockeys
on flying carpets. It's obvious the world would be better off had
the Muslim never existed.
\_ Whas da need? Da Muslim wold has been at a standstill
fo seven hunned years, sheeit. Nuffin' has changed.
Pedophile camel jockeys on dem flying doodads. Fosheezy,
da world would be better off had the Muslim never been up
in the club, damn straight.
\_ Spoken like a true Papist.
\_ Then prove me wrong with some facts, pagan.
would stay on the motd longer.
\_ It is what it is. Read the URLs and come to your own
conclusions. It doesn't matter what the OP intended.
\_ [racist content free troll deleted]
Look if you cannot figure out a way to make your
point without using racial epithets, you are going
to keep getting it deleted.
\_ You don't seem to be in such a hurry to delete
anti-semitic rhetoric.
\_ I'm the one who deleted the racist troll. I'm
pro-Israeli and a Jew. I deleted it because it
was a racist troll and added nothing to this
thread.
\_ Post all the rhetoric you want, just avoid
the camelf*cker routine, all right?
\_ This isn't much of an excuse, but whoever
that anti-semitic asshole is has only done
the "blame the jews for everything" routine,
while the anti-moslem asshole is openly
advocating their extermination. I delete
both when I see them, but more promptly if it's
hateful, rather than just stupid.
\_ Don't know about http://arabnew.com, but Al Jazeera is considered quite
independent from the Arab governments.
\_ Ah, the passive voice. "is considered". By whom exactly is it
considered anything? I consider Al Jazeera garbage 'news' and
propaganda. Next time why don't you say "... but Al Jazaeera is
considered garbage 'news' and propaganda" in the future instead? |
| 2003/3/25 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27832 Activity:insanely high |
3/25 Freedom of speech at work
http://csua.org/u/b84
\_ You know how you say "Fox News" in Arabic? "Al-Jazeera."
\_ If anything, Al Jazeera is one news agency which really
worth respect. It was being attacked by all fronts in the
Middle East, and it's unfortunate that US has join the rank
when the freedom of speech no longer serve their interest
http://csua.org/u/b85
\_ Thanks, that was good to know.
\_ The basic problem Americans have with Al Jazeera is its
tendency to emphasize Palestinian suffering over its
suicide bombers: "They blow themselves up because the
Jews give them no hope" rationalization. But that's what
the viewers want.
\_ well why do you think they blow themselves up?
extreme boredom?
\_ get clue: it's brainwashing.
\_ what, you don't think blowing themselves up is done
out of hopelessness? Who are you?
\_ see above. there are plenty of people with less hope
in the world and none of them are blowing up kids in
pizza parlors and dance halls. |
| 2003/3/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27725 Activity:nil |
3/17 'For whose benefit these endless wars in a region that holds
nothing vital to America save oil, which the Arabs must sell
us to survive? Who would benefit from a war of civilizations
between the West and Islam? Answer: one nation, one leader,
one party. Israel, Sharon, Likud.' -Pat Buchanan
\_ Someone besides me quotes Pat? Cool!!! -ax
\_ No, lots of isolationists and racists quote Pat. GO PAT! GO! |
| 2003/3/17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27723 Activity:very high |
3/17 http://csua.org/u/adf Israeli Army Bulldozer Kills American Protester in Gaza. Now, you can call me a bastard, but when one lies down in front of a tank/bulldozer/truck, etc., one must understand that the risk is that the driver will just take a hit off the sterno, make another mark in the dash, and hit the gas. Though I feel bad for the woman, another part of me can't help but feel warm and fuzzy at seeing self-righteous protestors with stupid tactics getting what's coming to them. My favorite quote: The Israeli troops "have shot over our heads, and shot near our feet --they have fired tear gas at us," said Michael Shaik, media coordinator for the group. "But we thought we had an understanding. We didn't think they would kill us." \_ My favorite was them going on and on in the newspaper about how they were *certain* the bulldozer would stop. It just *had* to, right? \_ It's just the way of that sort of people. The meaning "compassion" means nothing to them. Sharon the Butcher encourages this with his rhetoric, and the pro zionists here love it so that they can increase their wealth with war profiteering. \_ Bullshit. It's all about killing American students. Jews reall hate American students (and a woman!) so they killed her! \_ The article also mentions a 13 year old boy and an unarmed man who were killed. Were they being self-righteous for being in the "combat zone?" A "combat zone" that happens to be where they live? Maybe you should do a little thought experiment where you imagine your response to some soldiers showing up to your neighborhood who then decide to knock down your house without warning. Then perhaps they shoot at you, kill a few neighbors, maybe your wife or child. If you can't symphathize with that then you're worse than a bastard. Maybe that self-righteous American just couldn't stand by and watch it all go down on CNN anymore. At least she tried to change something, what have you done? \_ Ever wonder how their front yard got to be a combat zone? And what have YOU done? Posted to the motd about it? I've come \_ how about running away? or joining a suicide bombing squad? to the realization that giving "A's for effort" reinforces some pretty awful behavior, for instance, suicide bombing. At least they tried, indeed. And in your thought experiment, I pick up a gun and shoot back. I sure as hell don't count on anyone to to take pity on me and bail me out. If it happens, I'd be grateful, but I don't count on it. -op \_ how about running away? or joining a suicide bombing squad? \_ every time they "shoot back" the israeli army fires a tank missile or knocks someone ELSE's house down, and then the cycle begins all over again, i am so glad i don't live there. \_ You mean every time the palestinian children throw a stone, Sharon's Butcher SS shoots US missles at their village? Yeah. Well you can thank the pro-zion influence in congress for that. Might I add, that missile was from YOUR and MY taxdollars. \_ Stones for the cameras, rockets at night when naive kids like you aren't watching TV and the reporters are out getting laid. \_ I always find it odd how the Palestinians don't go and throw rocks at the Jordanians, Lebanese, Syrians or Egyptians, all of which at some point perpetrated fairly egregious acts against the Palestinians. Not to excuse what the Israelis (and their settlers) do, but one does get the impression that a bit of anti-semitism (let's be honest, a lot of the 'let's-drive-the-fucking- Jew-bastards-into-the-sea' rhetoric thrown around by various Arab groups doesn't get very conscientiously reported by Western media) is a lot easier than any sort of even-handed assessment of who's to blame for one's predicament. And frankly, although they're reacting in a brutish, uncivilized manner, this time it wasn't the Israelis who started provoking everyone in sight by completely disregarding an agreed-upon peace agreement. -John \_ Gandhi did little for India other than ruin it and condemn it to fifty plus years of poverty and financial ruin and communal violence. Instead of going around fasting and talking non-sense he should have supported Bose and the others who wanted to liberate India in the same way that the founding fathers liberated America from the British. \_ John, you're right that the other Arab states have done (and continue to do) their fair share of Palestinian oppression. It's just that the Israelis are a much more present target (i.e., in Palestine) and the other Arab nations are much more vicious in suppressing protest in their own countries (i.e., they'll deport agitators to Palestine so quick it'll make your head spin). If the other Arab states wanted to do something about the Palestinian issue, they could offer to make a homeland within their own territory... but that's not a popular idea. --erikred \_ Or like Jordan they can surrender a huge chunk of land, cut it off and say it isn't their problem anymore. I think Israel should do the same. \_ Or they can just kill themselves with fear... http://csua.org/u/ae9 \_ 40% of the Palestinians already live in Jordan. And creating a "homeland" for Palestinians outside of Palestine would simply legitimize Isreal's ethnic cleansing. \_ Sure, and creating a Palestinian state in Palestine will legitimize suicide bombings. Look, we can argue the semantics all day, but if you're looking for practical solutions, carving a homeland out of Jordan is not an unreasonable solution. --erikred \_ It's very unreasonable to the Jordanians. \_ It is unreasonable to everyone but Isreal. \_ Wow, that's pretty damned clueless. \_ You don't know what ethnic cleansing means. If you take the meanest word in your vocabulary, (racism, murder, nazi, rapist, etc) and apply it universally the word loses meaning. \_ What do *you* call it then? Sharon calls it "involuntary population transfer." \_ When exactly has Sharon tried pushing Arabs out of the WB or Gaza? When has Sharon done such a thing? You can't name the year because it has never happened. *I* call it, "you're a lying POS racist". \_ I notice you don't answer the question. Sharon has forcably moved thousands to build settlements and plans to move thousands more when the fence is built. And where did all the land in 1948 come from? Go ahead and delete this, your kind cannot stand the light of the truth. \_ it's called tit for tat \_ Bingo. Which would suggest that someone is employing the wrong tactics. I should note that Ghandi managed to free all of India through a campaign of hunger strikes and non-violent struggle. Though as a \- well that is a little simple. --psb counter-point, similar campaigns have done precious little to free Tibet from China's oppressive rule. -op \- and the chinese didnt run over the stand in front of a tank fellow at tianamen sq. states should be held to a higher standard. --psb \_ "fellow"? You know why you don't know his name? Because they grabbed him and executed him in some dark alley. His name will never be known. \_ Google for this, you will find an article which mentions him being at large. \_ lying down in front of a bulldozer isn't perpetuating a cycle of violence, unless you only count violence by Isreal. -tom \_ Actually she didn't lie down. She tripped and fell and then got run over. It was nothing so noble, just simple clumsiness. \_ will the non-pedophiles please think of the children?? \_ Not according to all the news reports. What is your source? \_ I don't think the Israelis will "cave in" to Palestinian demands if the Palestinians all simultaneously bombard Israel with a huge campaign of pacifism and non violence. but their current strategy isn't working too well either, i guess they're screwed. \_ Demands? Which ones? The ones where the Israelis all go jump in the sea? \_ US seems to be the opposite extreme of this. If in the US, some bulldozing company were to accidentally bulldoze over an "innocent" deer or dog, there would be protests all over and it would become a front page human interest story... both the US extreme and Israeli extreme seem fucked up to me. ~apolitical. \_ if there were weekly suicide bombings, your thinking might be different \_ ruby ridge. waco. it's ok to whack fringe right-wing types. \_ No, wackos with guns. You're forgetting the 60's and 70's when the FBI took out left-wing fringe groups. \_ No one at Waco had guns. Except the ATF. \_ LOL! Ah, that's why agents died storming them. It was the cows who shot them... \_ hey, that dead chick is pretty cute! \_ was. but that's ok. stupid chicks are all over campus. you'll find another one. \_ >z Time passes... The bulldozer thunders toward you. The ground is shaking beneath you as you lie in the mud. \_ You are likely to be eaten by a grue. \_ > enjoy mud |
| 2003/1/29 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/SIG, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27230 Activity:very high |
1/28 http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm Go ahead and keep deleting it. I will keep putting it back. \_ the truth shall set you free. I find it more accurate to search for the word "israel" in the actual letter of the law. As in here http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c107:./temp/~c107bC8waW I've gone back a few years. Israel always get more than Egypt despite what garbage alexf spews. The truth shall set you \_ care to elaborate on this reference? (and while you're at it, give a functional url and sign your name) -alexf free. \_ israel should try giving some of the money to the arabs. |
| 2003/1/25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27192 Activity:very high |
1/24 Why is it that the motd is always filled with israel vs palestinian
garbage? And it stays up for a long time too with people reposting
them. Meantime, my posting on having an affair with married women
or my incestuous relationship with my sister get nuked within a
minute. -pissed
\_ Please post again!
\_ Yeah, who really gives a shit.
\_ Your stories are just not plausible. No sodan would get that
kind of action.
\_ False. It happens, even to sodans. In real life. No
shitting. --btdt
\_ yeah, why wouldn't sodans have incestuous relationships
with their sisters? |
| 2003/1/21-22 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27180 Activity:very high |
1/21 Second try: what church building/organization do you church-goers
attend for worship? For example, "First Pres Church of Berkeley"
or "First Congregational". No, I didn't nuke the original post;
someone else did.
\_ Thai Buddhist Temple - services are from 10 am to around 2pm.
Bring about $6 for a good session.
\_ http://csua.org/u/833 (in oakland)
\_ Do you know an obnoxious obese guy named Jeffrey there?
\_ No, I know a skinny girl named Colleen there.
\_ some may be afraid to say because they will be attacked here.
\_ Good point. I don't mind anon answers.
\_ Speaking of which, anti-Christianity seems to be common here.
But do you notice anti-Jewish, anti-Islam, anti-something
else sentiment in the motd?
\_ No because that won't be politically correct.
\_ Post a link about Israel and the Jew haters crawl out from
under their rocks.
\_ A lot less people would be anti-Christian if
Christians didn't proselytize so damn much.
\_ Israel is a country. Judaism is a religion. Idiot.
\_ Oh, I'd say there's almost as much anti-Semitism here.
But then it's stylish to be an anti-Semite.
\_ The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: .
\_ Not Christianity.
\_ Why are you asking? Are you looking for a church?
\_ Just interested. I go to FPCB.
\_ FPCB: .
\_ Raelian Church (for the orgies): .
\_ Jesus has only one church. hint: it wasn't built by men
\_ What's the answer?
\_ It was built by women. Big Breasted Norse Teutonic women
who fell deer with their bow hunting skills, clad only in
a fur pelt and a belt for their daggers.
\_ Shit no! You're a complete fucking idiot! *EVERYONE*
knows they wore chainmail bikinis! DUH!
\_ What, you _like_ scar tissue?
\_ Maybe in YOUR Blockbuster-censored, Brittany Spears
pop G-rated world they did.. |
| 2003/1/16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:27113 Activity:high |
1/15 http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030115-035849-6156r Israel's new policy of assassination in friendly nations. \_ We are doing the same (remember the Missile trick we pulled off in Yemen?). This action is no different from PLO's suicide bombers \_ We do it better. Nothing left but a burning wreck and a smear in the sand. \_ What? You don't like giving a terrorist a cell-phone bomb and then calling it? \_ Ok, well that was kind of cool but I like the video game aspect of Terrorst Hunter (req's directx 8.1 and 3d card). \_ Yemen is not a friendly nation, in people's spirit at least. |
| 2003/1/10-11 [Finance/Banking, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:27057 Activity:insanely high 50%like:27058 |
1/10 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/08/60II/main535732.shtml Bush economy hits home \_ Wow. You frickin' win! Congratulation for the most effective troll I've seen in months. I want to say there was some luck involved but that would deny your skill in saying so little. Again, bravo! \_ Especially with the real link above which actually talks about the economy for real but isn't full of the typical invented "I had a deadline" pseudo-journalism sob story fluff pieces. But I guess reading about the real economy is hard. \_ One wonders why someone with a hourly income of $7.50 needs four kids. Most of the other sob stories chronicled in this article are equally lame. What these people need is a lesson in simple financial planning rather than a handout. \_ You are a moron. The kids came before the layoffs and the rotten economy. Savings last only so long. This is a bind that you could find yourself in.... Or have you got enough money to keep you fed, clothed, and housed for the rest of your life? Even if your stocks go fubar? If you do, then you're rich compared to the rest of us poor shmucks, and you should shut the fuck up, life's always easy for the rich. \_ I assume you're not rich so how the hell would you know? \_ So these people never though about how they are going care for four kids if they lose their jobs? They just assumed that they will be working for life? That is just plain stupid. As far as I'm concerned, I've planned for the case in which I am no longer employeed. For this reason, not all of my assets are tied up in stockes. I also lead a very limited life such that I can survive for years without income. \_ Unless you lose your job and and someone you loves gets sick and you can't pay. \_ And if that happens to me you'll take care of me? That's *really* nice of you! Thanks! \_ Yes I would. \_ Then come up with some way to fund this kind of education. Not everyone had parents who would pay for college. \_ My parents paid nothing but their income and home counted so I got zero financial aid of *any* sort but I still made it through Cal and I'm now one of those evil top 2%'ers. I have no sympathy for the intentionally stupid slackers. \_ what's the requirement to be a top 2%er? \_ $350k+/year. \_ A basic hs edu. should cover this. If it doesn't then my money is being misspent. My parents didn't pay for my college edu. They couldn't afford it. I paid my own way by working summer internships and getting scholarships. \_ What is all this bullshit? I see lots of college grads going bankrupt, lots of companies run by MBAs going bankrupt, people of all levels of education taking on too much debt, etc. Government bailing out rich people by bailing out corporations. \_ One wonders why we send money to israel too. At least those min wage earners earn money in our economy. - Altho i'm in favour of manditory norplant for welfare recipients \_ dude, really, you're just over smashing the hot buttons. if you teased it out a bit more and were a bit more subtle you'd get the fevered response you're looking for. \_ You know we spend more money protecting South Korea but I don't see any of you Jew haters ever mentioning that fact. \_ In SK we are protecting a vital national interest (h07 4zn ch1x!) from the commies. \_ And they can't be hot if they come from a commie country? I've met plenty of hotties from Red China. \_ Have you meet NK ch1x? They have bad teeth. Same with most of the Mainland ch1x. SK, HK and Japanese ch1x don't suffer from this. \_ NK ch1x are too skinny also. Deathly thin. \_ Yeah no shit. Because it's a socialist country. Just find and feed one. \_ I hate this shit, someone deleted my message cuz he doesn't agree with me. Fuck you, whoever did that \_ Did you use motdedit? \_ yup, I did, that is why I was pissed. \_ Why don't you stupid Ruskies, Chinks, Yankees and Japs just leave us alone. We could care less about your stupid fights for world domination. Just go home. We don't want any of you. \_ The Jewish lobby. \_ troll, go away. \_ What does this have to do with Israel? If you are implying that we should take the money spent on Israel and give it to the poor, you are extremely naive. This money would not solve the poor problem (as demonstrated the new deal and the war on poverty). In fact it would probably make things even worse for the poor people since the fall of Israel into Arab hands would have huge economic repercussions. \_ disagree. Israel is defiant to its stands mainly because we dump 3 billions per year to them. If we stop funding them, then, they would for the first time realize the true cost of sucide bombing. By realize the actual cost of the war, there is a much better chance for Israels to withdraw from the west-bank and other occupied territory. \_ Idiot. You can't negotiate with people who want you dead. There isn't always a diplomatic solution. The Arab version of peace doesn't include an Israel. How incredibly naive but nicely utopian your universe is. \_ There was a time when Arab nations were democratic and reasonable, but we all (Americans and Europeans) betrayed them and choose the Zionist whose tatic were not much different from what PLO today. Remember, THEY are the one who lived there for the past 2000 years, not Jews. and talking about visions, The land which God promise the Jews were a lot bigger than what Israel is today. Jewish's version of peace is essentially whipe Jordan and Syria, and good part of Egypt off the map. Is that sound any more reasonable? \_ Come back when you stop rewriting history. There have been Jews there for more than 2000 years. And no, blowing up some British military HQ and similar structures is not at all the same as sending your own children into pizza parlors and malls to blow themselves and numerous civilians to bits. Not at all the same. You are completely wrong about the Israeli idea of peace. If they really wanted to wipe out Jordan, Syria and Egypt, they could have and would have before now. In fact, (sorry I know facts bother you and get in your way but here another) the only reason Jordan still *exists* is because Israel told Syria that Israel would invade Syria if Syria carried out their plans to invade Jordan. You're either a liar or an idiot or both. I don't care which but I won't let your ignorance and racist spread unchecked. \_ Israel's GDP is around $100bln/year. I am sure they would tinghten their belts and make it even if the US stopped the economic and military aid, IMHO. \_ are you sure? Israel's economy seems pretty fucked right now, and the fact that the entire Palestinian economy is crippled beyond belief and they have no hope isn't making them very happy. \_ Without Israel what little stability there is in the middle east would disappear. Most of these arabs hate each other almost as much as they hate Israel. One conflict is easier to deal with than the dozen or so that would be present without Israel. These little conflicts would cause extensive damage to the entire petrochemical industry (if you think that gas is expensive now, think about when gas is 10x the cost it is today and the cost of plastics skyrockets.) \_ One wonders why anyone with more money NEEDS four kids either. To help them spend it? \_ I'm not sure why anyone needs four kids, but if someone wants that many they should be prepared to take care of them without resorting to gov. help (why should I be financially responsibly for someone else's kids?) \_ Like the Monty Python boys said, "every sperm is sacred!" And I agree with MP these people should just sell them off to science. Seriously, if they can't afford to take care of their own kids, the local child welfare social worker types will put them in foster care and that'll be that. "I have too many kids to feed!" is not a good reason to give the parent handouts. \_ I bet you who complain about taxes being high too. Do you see any sort of cause-effect here? Who pays the extra money to the foster family and for the paperwork to track the child? D'oh! \_ Of course my taxes are too high. I have no problem with government run orphanages or foster care and the paperwork involved. I have a problem with the government creating multi generational dependency and breaking the family structure. And it's twice as fucked up that they use my money to do it. \_ And separating kids from parents is family values? \_ You know what I hate? Whiny rich people who complain about their taxes and corporations who don't pay their share. Because they show no compassion, the government has to step in and do the right thing (which may or may not be the correct thing). That's why small government never works. The smallest you can get is a monarchy and an army/police force to control the masses. \_ The government doesn't tax to "do the right thing". You're being ridiculous and conspiratorial. Grow up and stop reading Catcher in the Rye. \_ Democracies do. Whether or not you agree that it's the "right thing" does depend. \_ There's nothing magical about a Democracy that makes it morally better than any other form of government. It's nothing but mob rule. And this nor any other country on the planet is a democracy anyway. \_ Yes, we've all had HS Gov. It's a repulbic. Don't you feel much better now? \_ I like the idea of competition. I like the results of healthy market competition. That having been said, why can we not agree to guarantee basic food, shelter, and (mostly preventitive) medicine to all Americans and then require said Americans to work hard if they want more? \_ So you want to destroy the food, housing, and medical segments of the economy? How about the "tech gap"? Shouldn't we provide a basic palm-like device and a home computer and at least 256k DSL to everyone, too? How about transport? Don't you know the poorest of the poor can't even afford the city bus? Let's make sure everyone has at least a low end basic car. Where does it stop? \_ Because it would cost money. Which means taxes. Which means more whiny rich people and corporations pleading poverty and how life is "soooooo unfair?" See the above reply? Typical crap from someone who thinks not being hungry will lead to society collaspe. \_ Thanks for mis-stating everything I said and ignoring every single thing I had to say and simply repeating your agenda driven mantra about "whiny rich people". You've really added a whole lot to this thread with all the cut n paste replies. \_ So having families stand in line for food is really the American dream? Wow. Who'd have thunk? My problem is that you've jumped from the idea of feeding and providing basic healthcare to the poor to slacker heaven. Sheesh. Whiner. \_ Wow! I can have the necesseties of life without working! You guys can foot the bill, losers! I'm kicking back. \_ Hmm, actually this sounds really good when you put it that way and all these years I've been voting I never considered I could just vote myself a life free of all real concerns. I'm going to start voting Democrat. It works like that, right? \_ Oops you guys missed the word "work" there. \_ Nope. It only says if I want more. Since so few people will be working I won't have to work very hard if I want more. You do realise that most people work very hard and only get basic food, shelter, and medical care? So making those free (from other people's money) means the vast majority of Americans could live the exact same life they have now (under this 'plan') and not work at all. In fact, since it is now a magical guarantee, their lives would actually be much better. Oh! To live in Utopia! \_ Actually it's called France, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Denmark, Canada... \_ *laugh* Maybe you missed the links the other day (for Germany) or several of these others in the past on how their economies are so fucked they make ours look 1999 vibrant? \_ Are they starving their working poor too? Ah. Doesn't this count as one of those human rights violations the US keeps harping about? |
| 2002/12/10 [Computer/SW/Apps/Media, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26772 Activity:high |
12/9 "Suit Against Cheney Task Force Dismissed"
http://csua.org/u/691
"...... was an unprecedented act that raised serious separation-of
-powers issues between the executive and legislative branches of
government." An issue deeper than separation of church and state
and affirmitive action.
\_ dbushong: can you set up your URL-shortener to include the
domain name in the shortened URL? something like
link:csua.org/u/yahoo.com/691 would be helpful. In this case
I was interested in the article, but it sounded like it might
be just another freeper link.
\_ or at least post where the shortener actually rediercts to
so we can gauge whether a link is work-safe before finding out
the hard way...
\_ you mean goatsex flashing all over your screen would be a
problem? you must not work for the same porno e-mag as me.
\_ freeper links are simply stories linked from other news sites. |
| 2002/11/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26614 Activity:high 66%like:26612 |
11/23 landlord survey - your landlord is:
black, white, puertorican or chinese boy: M
\_ what's a "puertorican"?
\_ Ever heard of "Puerto Rico"?
\_ he means Borricuan. (yes look it up).
\_ Yes. What's a "puertorican"?
\_ its "Puerto Rican" with a typo. get over it.
\_ Goddamn, one fucking space left out... it was a quote from a
shitty missy elliot song in case you didnt know.
white:.
black:..
chinese:
dirty, old, and indian:
other azn:
persian: .
\_ are there persians anywhere but iran? why dont people say iranian?
racist:
a jew: .
\_ you mean evil money grubbing vampiric baby killing jew, right?
\_ You forgot lying, and backstabbing.
\_ mmm, vampiric babies
\_ I believe it's a string of adjectives modifying the
object jew but you knew that.
who cares?: .............
small, green, and filled with jam: .
racist: go BEAH
old white woman with 6 cats, 2 birds, and an old mangy dog: .
no idea: . |
| 2002/11/22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26589 Activity:high |
11/21 Another $10b (that's BILLION) down the drain for the Jews.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23125-2002Nov21.html
\_ Actually, it's for the Israelis.
\_ Man, intolerance is so fucking cool. Makes me glad to be a
a member of this organiztion. -dans
\_ What's tolerant about giving $10b to a foreign nation (a nation
whose nat'l religion is Judaism)? That could fund approx.
1000 startups.
\_ Ahem. 'Another $10b (that's BILLION) down the drain for the
Jews.' -dans
\_ I guess spelling is no longer a requirement to be a ap reporter
or editor: "jump-strating" indeed.
\_ Am I the only one who actually read the link? All of you are
morons. The article does not say any such thing. Shame on all
of you for your brash stupidity.
\_ OPs interpretation of the article is that the loan guarantee
that is being sought is equivalent to pouring money down the
toilet. Whether or not his interpretation is correct should
be self-evident.
\_ OP is stupid and didn't read it at all. The US is NOT loaning
$10b, the article even says if Isreal repays the loan, there is
NO cost to the US at all. -ERic
\_ Yawn. Anti-semitism's easy when you're anonymous. Sign your
screed next time, troll, or expect to get plonked. --erikred |
| 2002/11/15 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26550 Activity:kinda low |
11/15 wether you are for or against gun control, you should listen to
this, just as a classic example of propoganda:
http://csua.org/u/585
\_ would it be asking too much for people posting csua shortlinks
to describe the data type - in this case, mp3? And then for
a summary, not a vague topic reference? |
| 2002/11/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Health/Sleeping] UID:26509 Activity:high |
11/11 Can somebody clarify how exactly the settlers of the occupied
territories make a living? The latest shakeup in Sharon's gov't
seems to be over money for settlers. That leads me to believe that
the gov't pays them to live there and do nothing else. The settlements
are too far from any private sector jobs, right?
\_ They get paid bounty for murdering palestinian children in their
sleep and using their fresh blood in their satanic jew rituals of
evil. I thought everyone knew that?
\_ They steal olive groves and orange trees from Palestinians and
pick the fruit. No joke, the settlements sit on most of the best
farmland.
\_ bullshit. they get paid by the American tax payer supported
Israeli government to kill palestinian children for their wicked
blood rituals. (when you grow up and stop trolling maybe I'll
tell you the real answer to the OP's question except the OP
looks like a troll too) |
| 2002/10/30 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26358 Activity:nil |
10/29 Break out your wallet...
'Haitians coming ashore in Key Biscayne, FL'
By some estimates there are 13 million illegals in this country.
http://csua.org/u/48c
\_ Freeper Guy - I thought something bad had happend to you.
I love you, man! |
| 2002/10/28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26337 Activity:kinda low |
10/28 Dear Russian motdians, how do you tell if someone's from Ukrain,
Russia, or other Republics? For example, can you tell from their
last name like <something>ski, <something>gorodov, <something>ninoff,
etc?
\_ Ask them.
\_ Russian endings: ov/ova, iy/aya (e.g. ivanov, kulikovskiy)
Ukranian endings: ko (e.g. bondarenko)
Armenian endings: ian (e.g. kevorkian)
Georgian endings: dze/tze shvili (e.g. shevardnadze dzhugashvili)
These are rules of thumb though, and jewish last names are pretty
diverse.
\_ More standard assumptions (i.e. what people will assume without
asking in Russia based on last name alone):
Russian: -in/-ina, -off (old latinization of -ov)
Polish/Belarussian: -skiy/-skaya (generally assumed NOT russian,
contrary to the above).
Lithuanian/Latvian: -is/-as/-us
Azerbaijani: -gli/-glu (same ending, different latinization, same
as -glI in Turkish, which Azeri is effectively a dialect of); I
suppose these can also show up in Turkmen, Uzbek, and the like,
but they seem to not do so too often.
Central Asian / Azerbaijani: Russian endings attached to Turkic,
Arabic, or Altaic first names. Hard to quantify in terms of
endings alone.
Estonian: anything sounding like Finnish; double consonants and
double vowels anywhere, stuff ending in -u
Standard Jewish: -man/-zon/-son
Anything else remotely germanic-sounding (or foreign-sounding
in general, for most people in an average village) -- Jewish
is assumed anyway.
-alexf, whose last name "sounds unusual" and thus is
immediately [correctly] assumed to be Jewish by most people
from the former USSR
\_ my proj lead is Ukrainian and his last name is
zhegorodov. He said he used to be a farm boy, whatever
that means.
\_ That's why they are rules of thumb. People intermarry,
etc.
\_ Indeed, rules of thumb only. Although a Russian _could_
probably _guess_ that the above is Ukranian or at least
near the border -- the stem is "Zhegorod", a place name
(since "gorod" is the root for "city"), and the _place
name_ sounds Ukranian more than anything. Keep in mind that
anyone who grows up in a diverse environment which doesn't
have a US-style pressure against drawing lines along ethnic
boundaries will learn a ton of subtleties of this sort
without noticing, since everyone uses them to distinguish
between "us" and "them", for all values of "us." -alexf |
| 2002/10/12-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26165 Activity:very high |
10/12 You'd figure a pacifist country like this wouldn't be a target, but:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2322275.stm
\_ "According to a government spokesman Mikko Norros, a foreign
terrorist organisation is not believed to have been
responsible for the bomb - rather a deranged individual or
an organised crime group. "
personaly, I believe him. they're finns. what motivation
do they have to lie? as to pacifism, finland has mandatory
military service for all men. no cookie.
\_ more like swiss "armed neutrality"
\_ well, I think it's more just "hey, let's not get fucked over
by russia like all the other countries nearby"
\_ *laugh* You're so naive. Yeah, the first time in history that
the mob has used a suicide bomber. That makes a lot of sense.
Duh, by definition anyone who blows themselves up in a mall is
deranged so that's a meaningless statement as well. It was your
standard PLO/Hamas style suicide bombing in a public shopping
center. Just like the French trying to claim the tanker wasn't
an act of terror, also. A five year old could see this govn't
spokesman's statement is ridiculous. They haven't even collected
all the body parts and he's already claiming it wasn't an act of
middle-east style terror. Nonsense.
\_ The person jumping to conclusion is the person who said:
"You'd figure a pacifist country like this wouldn't be a
target, but ..."
\_ This is a silly response. The motd isn't a public forum
and I doubt the OP is an official government spokesman
feeding propoganda to the public. You're ducking the
issue. I stand by what I said before: they haven't even
collected the body parts and know almost nothing about
what happened when this mouthpiece puts out official word
that it wasn't an act of middle eastern style terrorism,
but was instead some garbage about the world's first
suicidal mafia hit (on a mini mall, no less). For now,
I'm willing to grant them benefit of the doubt on not
releasing identifying details about the bomber beyond his
age and gender, but they don't get that benefit forever.
\_ i'll keep being naive and you keep being paranoid,
and we'll see who has a better life.
\_ This is why we need a regime change in Iraq. Terrorist attacks will
continue while Saddam is in power. -G.W. Bush |
| 2002/10/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26098 Activity:insanely high |
10/4 how did John Walker Lindh even break the law, causing him now
to be sentenced to 20 years in jail? what's illegal with joining
the taliban, despite their unusual beliefs and practices?
\_ I think this is how it goes: 9/11 was done by Al Qaida, so we
\_ I guess this is how it goes: 9/11 was done by Al Qaida, so we
calssified Al Qaida as an enemy to this country. The Taliban is
assocated with Al Qaida, so we classified the Taliban as an enemy to
this country. Now, it is illegal for a citizen to join an enemy
to this country, so Lindh broke the law.
\_ ex post facto
\_ not so. he stayed there with them *after* 9/11 and *after*
he knew american soldiers were there fighting against his
terrorist pals. thanks.
\_ Yeah because walking out of a fanatical camp in the
middle of Afghanistan with no food, money, or support is
the best thing to do.
\_ 1) tough shit, 2) others managed to change sides or
safely surrender all over the place, 3) tough shit
\_ Who? Name one American citizen fighting with the
Taliban who did so. They'd have shot his ass as
a deserter. Lindh's going to jail because the
Feds have shown his lawyers enough evidence to
suggest he helped kill a CIA spook who was
conducting "interrogations" in the POW camp,
and his lawyers told him to take 20 over the chair.
\_ Why must it be an American I name? As far as we
know there was only 1 traitor there when Mike
Spann was murdered. Did you have a point? Your
cheesey 3rd grader quality attempt to redfine the
debate by putting words in my mouth was beyond
\_ IDF allows anyone to apply as long as they can read,speak Hebrew
ridiculous. Frankly, this stupid prick is safer
in a cell than on the street where someone is
going to kill this punk. He'll suck some prison
dick but he won't be dead which he should be.
\_ Don't be a schmuck. You must name an
American because JWL was an American and
would've been shot had he tried to defect
from the Taliban. Why he didn't ID himself
as such when the Spann and the rest of the
"interrogation" squad showed up is a
mystery, but perhaps he didn't know the
rest of the prisoners were going to riot.
My point is that he's going to jail not for
just being in the Taliban or being a "traitor."
\_ Child, I don't *have* to but because you're
so cute, I will anyway. Go look up the 4
guys that got picked up last week. 1 of
them didn't like his new psycho jihadi
friends and left. Jihad Johny didn't ID
himself because he (in his mind) was talking
to the enemy, ya know, the enemy, Americans.
A mystery? What utter crap. How can you
expect to be taken even halfway seriously
spewing about how a bus sized hole in your
line of 'reasoning' is simply a mystery
while simultaneously making bogus claims
about what I *have* to prove to you?
Because you lost based on reality and now
you lost on your new self-defined reality.
Go home, read some newspapers, keep up with
what's going on in the real world and you
won't be forced to look like a jerkoff here.
He was *LUCKY* to get only 20 years. It was
a *VERY* generous offer. If he pulled that
shit as a citizen of *any* other country on
this planet, he'd be dead if he was lucky
and never see the sun again if not. This is
the only country that doesn't execute
fucking traitors and other scum like JWL.
\_ John Walker is an American citizen, and thus owes allegiance to
this country (immigrants take the oath explicitly, he was born
into it). By fighting against American troops, he committed
treason. It's kind a scary anti-utopian word, but he can be tried
for it nevertheless. Personally I think he got off easy.
\_ treason is a scary anti-utopian word? say what? I agree that
he got off easy. So did all the FBI & CIA traitors who sold us
out to the soviets. Life in prison is way too easy.
\_ *Any* participation in a foreign militia is grounds for loss of
citizenship. Bush was soft. He should have had his citizenship
revoked, then put in federal prison, and when his prison term was
over, he should be deported.
\_ the only exception is Israel. Lots of Americans serve in the
Israeli military and wave the Israeli flag around. Who do
you think they're loyal to? Frankly, I think anybody who served
in ANY foreign military should be deported. Including all the
Israelis.
\_ Talk to your Reps about eliminating the possibility of dual
citizenship and while you're at it see if they'll get someone
to enforce the other weak immigration and citizenship laws.
\_ IDF allows anyone to apply as long as they can read,speak
Hebrew
\_ yeah how do they get around the law to do that?
that's always confused me.
\_ Wasn't Israel to become the 51st state? j/k ;p
\_ I thought that was Britain, although Blair denied it a
few days ago.
\_ Really? A recent episode of JAG talks about a jew in US
marine who goes to join the Israeli military, and whether he
should be treated as a traitor. I didn't watch the episode
and didn't know the outcome. I just heard the trailer on the
radio.
\_ No, not really at all. They're making shit up because the
average person doesn't know either way and accepts their
anti-semitic lies as facts.
\_ Please do not rely on TV drama to get your understanding of,
well, anything. My work here is done.
\_ You mean Westwing isn't real life?
\_ flying tigers.
\_ you mean the american pilots getting paid by uncle sam to
fight for the chinese using american weapons, american ammo,
lead by american commanders? those flying tigers?
\_ You are full of crap:
http://travel.state.gov/military_service.html
\_ True, but the little fucker is still a traitor and should be
shot.
\_ Relevant quote: "Although a person's enlistment in the armed
forces of a foreign country may not constitute a violation of
U.S. law, it could subject him or her to Section 349(a)(3) of
the Immigration and Nationality Act [8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(3)] which
provides for loss of U.S. nationality if an American
voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S.
citizenship enters or serves in foreign armed forces engaged in
hostilities against the United States or serves in the armed
forces of any foreign country as a commissioned or
non-commissioned officer."
So it looks like I just made the mistake that it's only
officers that are automatic. If you're not an officer you have
to be involved in hostilities against the US...like Lindh.
\_ Jeez! Don't you know a non-commissioned officer is an
enlisted man. You stupid Berkeley types who never understood
the military or it's structure. So no. You made a big
mistake.
\_ At least I can format @ 80 columns
\_ <Sigh> How pathetic and puny...
\_ Not all enlisted people are NCOs.
\_ Are you a dumbass? He said all NCOs are enlisted.
Your statement is true, but is not a refutation of
what he said, and is simply irrelevant. Your idiocy
is pissing me off, go away.
\_ On a related note, I heard that permanent residents here are allowed
to serve in our military, and maybe even required to served during
war time. How does that work with their citizenship elsewhere?
\_ Who cares what their third world homes have to say about it?
\_ But to whom are they supposed to be loyal?
\_ if they were so loyal, why did they leave?
\_ welfare for illegal aliens available here. |
| 2002/9/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26044 Activity:high |
9/29 "We defeated the Israelis" declares member of Arafat security forces.
http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=1509990
\_ Written by... Wafa Amr. Unbiased press? Hehehe...
\_ defeat is not always military. And this last siege HURT Isreal bad.
It looked bad, they flat out said no to the UN, they pissed off the
US, they helped shore up the popularity of a struggling Arafat,
AND they didn't get what they came for.
\_ Depends on the goal. If the goal is to keep a weak Arafat around
by giving him a "boost" in order to delay or stop the formation
of a Palestinian pseudo-state, then I'd say the Palestinian
people lost big time, even if Arafat and his thugs won a short
reprieve from exile, jail, or death. Either way, the thugs were
hardly the ones who 'defeated' Israel or did anything more than
eat the food, drink the water, and use the eletricity the
Israelis gave them. Not much of a siege when the siegers are
delivering food by truck everyday to your front door, eh? |
| 2002/9/4 [Reference/Tax, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25765 Activity:very high |
9/3 http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=1309807 This is just what the world needs. Global taxes on rich countries to alleviate world wide poverty. France says it'll only take $100b/year forever to do it. I can't wait to be a Citizen of the World and I'll even get my own Universal Identicode & Tracking Unit implanted in my brain. Sweet! \_ How about foreign aid to israel? How much of your hard earn tax dollars goes towards people who study religious texts all day and have children all nights and do not work for a living? The US sponsors judaism?! I want money for my christian schools here in the US! \_ $2b/year to Israel. $2b/year to Egypt. Not very much. There's more government waste than that by far. Thanks for trolling. \_ Just last week I read that there is a 3-2 ratio between aid to Israel and Egypt. \_ Some perspective on this: it costs us $1b/day to send an army to another country such as Iraq'91. Per day, yes. If we weren't bribing both countries to be nice to each other what are the odds we'd have spent more than that on more than one occasion to keep one from destroying the other? What's the cost of cleaning up Cairo after a nuke? What's the cost of sending in enough troops to keep the Egyptians and others from genociding the Israelis? Thanks. \_ Oh great. 'Cause welfare works so well, we want to expand it to a global scale. Doesn't anyone even pay attention to history? \_ the US welfare system sucked, for example paying kids to have even more kids; however, what's wrong with trying to eliminate poverty? Use the money for job training, loans so that ppl can start businesses, get an education, improve infrastructure, so that they can become self-sufficient? And when times are tough, like they are today, it would be good to have that minimal paycheck so that you don't lose your home and can have food on the table until the economy rebounds. \_ one word, kleptocracy \_ To expand on this, the recent past has shown that when we send money and/or food into nations with corrupt leadres, the resources don't get there. The corrupt leaders line their pockets. Look at just about any country in Africa, Haiti or the Palestinians for examples. \_ Stop bringing fact and reality into this. \_ DON'T CRITICIZE THE PALESTINIANS, whatever you do. We all know it is a Jewish conspiracy against the camel jockeys. \_ I'm not criticizing the palestinians. I am criticizing their corrupt leader. \_ Leaders. It's a plural thing there and other corrupt pseudo nations as well. \_ it will be a great day when the secular government of isreal/palestine has a double trial for terrorism for arafat and sharon. \_ Sharon already had a trial, thanks. The palestinians don't have anyone left who can run a government. All the reasonable people got murdered in the streets by Arafat's hit squads. There won't be a palestinian government in your lifetime and the odds of a truly secular one are about zero. \_ that depends on how long i live. consider any 10 countrys, and look at where they were 100 years ago. the world changes. \_ Pick any 10 muslim countries. \_ I like to think that having random acts of terror and the slow internal destruction of US civil liberties, not including the increasing autocrastic governmental rule as payment enough. \_ Civil liberties have been eroding since FDR. Good call. I like the way you think. You have a good historical perspective and aren't babbling about how GWB was the start of it all like some other zero-historical-perspective motd scribblers around here. Actually, some would say it goes back even further to the 16th. |
| 2002/8/13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Recreation/Media] UID:25551 Activity:nil |
8/13 Anybody watch "meet my folks"? Have you noticed that the short
jewish guy is always the first one to go?
\_ you mean, in that one episode, and that one episode only,
he happened to be the first to go? if so, then no I didn't.
\_ i assume you mean short jewish guys are the first to go in other
reality tv shows. care to name a few?
\_ Have you seen Robert Redford's "Quiz Show"? Jews are always
kicked off after winning a few rounds.
\_ Since we label everything as racism, can I also say that
Asians rarely even get to be on the shows?
\_ Yeah but contestants need to pass a pre-show test and be
interesting for TV.
\_ Yeah I know, but I might as well call it racism, since
everytime we minotiries fail to do something we scream
discrimination and the white folks can't say we're abusing
our status in order to be PC.
\_ You're abusing your status. -cracker boy
\_ After the holocaust and the terrorist bombings, you'd
think some people would take a hint. |
| 2002/7/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25441 Activity:high |
7/29 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18722-2002Jul29.html I post this not to say Israel/Palestinians are good/bad/whatever but to demonstrate the bias in our media today. One line in particular really grabbed me towards the end, "The settlers were bringing the body of a soldier killed in a Palestinian attack to their cemetery when a riot erupted". This is an odd phrase. Why did a riot erupt? 'Riots' are not active verb actors in a sentence. The truth here is that while the Israelis were in a funeral procession, some Palestinians started throwing rocks and yelling racial slurs and about 100 Israelis broke away from the procession, vandalised a bunch of shops, stabbed a 7 year old, and beat up a bunch of people. "A riot erupted" indeed. Does AP or the WP think their readers are too immature to handle the whole story? A story where both sides had fault? Too complicated for their typical reader? Modern media is crap. My advice: think for yourself, question everything. Sorry this is so long. \_ The media has to perpetuate the crusade for both sides. If the American public ever realized how utterly stupid and pointless middle eastern politics is, we'd either invade or just let them slug it out tooth and nail. I've swayed back and forth several times during my politically conscious period, and I've decided that I support Israel, not because of moral highground but because they are more cooperative with us militarily and we need a base of operations in that region. |
| 2002/7/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25272 Activity:moderate |
7/3 For those long URLs you tried to post to the motd, try
http://csua.org/u
\_ this application is obviously pro-palestinian and anti-semitic.
\_ this comment is obviously pro-palestinian and anti-semitic.
\_ dict semitic. palestinians are semitic.
\_YOU'RE anti-semitic!
\_ After Israel succeeds in wiping out the palestinians
there will no longer be this ambiguity about the meaning
of the word semitic.
\_ *sigh* you didn't read the definition, did you?
semitic people speak semitic languages, which
includes Arabic. palestinians are not the only
arabic speakers in the world. if you're going
to troll, troll, but at least use the language
correctly.
\_ Sorry, sir.
\_ Semitic derived from progeny of Shem, descendant
of Noah.
\_ the extermination of the palestinian race is the only
way that israel can survive! FUCK THEM PALESTINIANS.
\_ webster simitic. The word can also refer to jewish only.
Your comment is obviously pro-dict and anti-webster. :-)
\_ Wow! Who wrote it? How long are the shortcuts good for?
\_ dbushong. Until he cleans out the database.
\_ cool.
\_ It's the little things that count. Nice work.
\_ Wow, this is nice. |
| 2002/7/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25263 Activity:high |
7/2 Hillary votes in favor of using military force to free Americans
held by ICC. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-344149,00.html
\_ And?
\_ And I'm shocked and horribly disappointed she would vote for
this horrendous PR garbage.
\_ I can't believe the article didn't call the act by the name
given to it by some Europeans: The Netherlands Invasion Act.
\_ "The idea that its some right-wing paranoid fear about the
International Criminal Court (ICC) is not true."
Sigh... right wing has nothing to do with it. Those who are
against it in this country are those with the most to lose: the
corporations committing human rights violations the world over
and, by extension, the politicians who must back them to remain
in power. oh yeah, and the military by yet another extension
of the corporate structure.
\_Riiiiight. Include in there the people who believe that giving the
rest of the world the power to yank our chain whenever they like
isn't a good idea. Hell, when the UN can have a conference on
racism that condemns Jews (not to mention the Jenin fiasco), it
would be insane to give the current world forum any power, real or
imaginary over the US.
\_ "Condemns Jews"? Right. Any criticism of israel is anti-semitic. |
| 2002/6/27 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25214 Activity:nil |
6/26 http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20020626.shtml Asking the question, "why does the left support the Palestinians and not Israel?" \_ why do israeli soldiers sodomize palestinian youth and drive them to become suicide bombers? \_ Why do you forget to cite reliable sources when you spout your mindless pro-palestinian propaganda? Could it be because there aren't any? \_ why do you not realize that was a troll? \_ why don't you realize that the only reason for keeping this shitty account or logging into this machine is to read trolls and flames on the motd? \_ The left has traditionally supported the downtrodden. The left supported Isreal until relatively recently. But this blowhard is not really even worth replying to. |
| 2002/6/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25176 Activity:insanely high |
6/23 CNN finally admits bias in reporting and promises to not be such
incredible fuckups in the future.
<DEAD>library.northernlight.com/EC20020623270000029.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0<DEAD>
\_ When US bombed China's embassy a while back, I don't recall
there was ANY coverage on the victims neither. Join the club.
\_ Yes there was. I recall names, body count, professions, and a
bit about their families.
\_ Hmm, I don't see any pro-Isarel US media being pressured to correct
its bias.
\_ Name em.
\_ ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS
\_ *laugh* They're all pro-Palestinian if anyone ever was.
Anyway, no one who wants real news goes there anyway.
That's bubblegum news for the masses. Why do you watch?
\_ yeah they go to http://freerepublic.com instead!
\_ Yawn. What a weak reply. Total strawman. There's
only one conservative on the motd lame enough to
use biased propaganda pseudo news like the free
republic web site as a source and I'm beginning
to think it's a lefty shill looking to create an
artificial strawman. Get over it.
\_ At the end of the article: "Jordan said the company was taking
criticism from both sides, with Palestinian officials he met on
Saturday accusing CNN of serving Israeli Prime Minister Ariel
Sharon. ``They believe that CNN is the propaganda arm of the
the other way round.
Sharon government,'' he said."
\_ Palestinian whining is not at all the same as CNN admitting
they fucked up. The first is just a PR tactic. The second is
about CNN's guilt and correcting that misbehavior in the future.
I can honestly claim CNN doesn't run enough stories about my
daily events (zero so far! shocking!) but that doesn't mean CNN
is biased against me since I'm not newsworthy, nor am I a savage
terrorist murderer who targets school buses.
\_ What's wrong with targetting school buses? The goal of
terrorism is terror after all. Get the fuck out of those
settlements.
\_ You mean the settlements in places like the capitol where
buses and cafes are targets? Settlements my ass. They
won't be happy until the jews resettle in Atlantis.
\_ I thought the US media has always been accused of pro-Isarel, not
the other side.
\_ Spend less time listening to Berkeley-style "liberal"
pseudointelligentsiya.
\_ Uhm, no. And as the above points out, accused by who exactly?
SF/Berkeley is not the center of the country.
\_ Arab countries, Europe, Japan, China. Pretty much the whole
world, except maybe India.
\_ Arabs countries? Uhm ok whatever. European journalism is
extreme left wing and Europe is the home to anti-Semitism.
Japan is opposed to anything that might drag their economy
even further down. It's easy to whine when someone else
is covering your ass. And China is an enemy state which
is opposed to the US and her allies on general principle.
\_ and the principles are: complete disregards of
international treaties of any sort, completely
disregards of sovereignty of other nation, for the
sole purpose of expand its economic interest and
overwhelmingly dominance over the world...
\_ This is what *all* countries do. Next!
There was a time where Chinese were really look up
toward Americans (through out the 80s). It's American
themselves start to treat China as an enemy after
TeinAnMen Square 13 yrs ago, after the collapse of
Soviet Union, as China become the only country
left has remote (and i mean REMOTE) chance to
chanllenge American's dominance over the world.
\_ You mean when the Chinese ran over peaceful
pro-democracy protestors with tanks? With friends
like that I'd rather have enemies. |
| 2002/6/21 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25160 Activity:very high |
6/21 http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/21/international/middleeast/21SUIC.html?pagewanted=2 "The bottleneck on the Palestinian side is not the suicide attacker," said a senior Israeli security official. "It's the bomb." \_ It will end only when Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate the Israelis. \_ It seems to me that if Israel tried to make life better for the Palestinian's not as many would be willing to die in suicide attacks. For example, if Israel built decent public schools, health care, etc. and took steps to make help Palestinians find decent jobs some of them might decide that rebuilding their country and moving forward is better than terrorism. Then again, if one of my friends or family members was killed by a terrorist I might have a hard time taking such steps. \_ This is all UN controlled territory and the UN, EU, and others pump many millions a month into the PA. Where is all the money going? Not schools, jobs, or healthcare.... You're looking to the wrong folks for these things. Oh yeah, this is also all supposed to be demilitarised land. Why is the UN sitting on it's ass while weapons pour into the area? It'll end when the Palestinians love their children. As a side note, this was all Jordanian territory untl 1967 and they ran it even worse than the Israelis. Why were mass Jordanian executions ok but the Israelis are somehow supposed to be lifting up the people who are specifically targetting their children in a self-proclaimed "war of the buses"? \_ because people have short memories. \_ I'm not saying that what the Palestinians are doing is good. What they should be doing is massive non-violent protests a la Gandi or MLK, but they aren't. My point was only that Palestinian parents won't start encouraging their children to be peaceful unless they feel that they can have happy, productive lives. As long as life sucks, their will be no shortage of martyrs. \_ But Gandi and MLK both did it under severe adversity and oppression. I don't understand why Palestinians refuse to take the non-violent approach. \_ Those activists that have tried non-violence have been shot and beaten. They also tend to get pushed aside for attention by the violent types. In India, the independence movement had both violent and non-violent elements and even in the civil rights struggle, MLK was one of the more moderate elements. Isreal is also far more willing and able to use violence against the Palestinians than Southern Sheriffs were against King (sad but true). So, the short answer is, many Palestinians have tried non-violence. The longer answer is that non-violence is probably only ever effective as one part of a multi-pronged approach. Unfortunately, the Palestinians seem to have lost sight of this as well, and are increasingly dominated by the violent and desperate factions such as Hamas, leaving the Isrealis with no one reasonable to negotiate with. \_ Wow. Both of your arguments are basically clearly stated, respectful of others' points of view and earn sympathy from the reader. Maybe the football games have the normal crowd still asleep. In any case, I'm afraid this thread is too decent for politics on the motd. You're going to have to leave now. \_ YOU ESS EH! YOU ESS EH! YOU ESS.. oh damn it... \_ Try again in 2006. \_ Maybe the Palestinians wouldn't be so violent if their territority wasn't being littered with Israeli "Settlements"? |
| 2002/6/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25140 Activity:nil |
6/18 19 killed on bus filled with school children and office workers.
Father of bomber tells Reuters he is "very proud".
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20020618/wl_nm/mideast_blast_claim_dc_1
And here's the mother of a different attacker giving her son a warm
embrace and good wishes on his way out the door. Local heroine now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_2050000/2050414.stm
This is not the way to accomplish anything but more death. |
| 2002/6/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25136 Activity:nil |
6/17 http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,739466,00.html Ted Turner, brilliant intellectual thinker of the left, on Israeli terrorism. |
| 2002/6/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25069 Activity:moderate |
6/11 Bad news for everyone involved. Not as bad as it might be and not as
bad as other places in the world which are on the verge of nuking
each other but still pretty bad. This won't end well.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020611/wl_nm/mideast_palestinian_poll_dc_1&printer=1
\_ "liberating all of historic Palestine" != Israel's Elimination
\_ uhm, how do you figure that? We're talking about the Israel &
Palestine on Earth, not on Mars.
\_ "Fifty-one percent of people surveyed said the end result of
the uprising should be "liberating all of historic Palestine,"
referring to British-mandate Palestine, part of which was
recognized as Israel in 1948." There isn't much Israel left
if you roll back to pre-1948 borders, is there?
\_ I like the "almost half of all respondents believed Palestinian
President Yasser Arafat would win elections," rather than "More
than half didn't think Arafat could win election."
\_ Most polls are split into the equivalent of yes/no/not sure
as three options, so if the split were 49/31/20, it would
be appropriate to talk about the plurality as being almost
a majority. |
| 2002/5/23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24919 Activity:high |
5/22 http://jewishworldreview.com/kathleen/parker1.asp \_ Wow, that's bad column writing. Lots of terrible assumptions and plenty of overboard and irrational opinions. \_ Yeah, like "President Bush merely connected the dots" President Bush can hardly spell his name. He has Condoleeza Rice do his crossword every morning. \_ Uhm, you're an idiot. Try reading the article again. I'll give you a hint: it's a fictional piece about how it might have gone differently. That help? \_ Um.. it's called a joke? heard of it? \_ Name one thing that is a "terrible assumption." The scenario described sounds like a very plausible sequence of events if action were to have been taken last summer. -alexf \_ Uhm, ok, that's a nice attack I guess. Perhaps you'd like to quote or refer to something instead of pissing on your shoes? \_ for the record, the author is listed as a 'pundit' - and also: as a Jew, I've never heard of this website and find it lame. of the 'jewishworldreview' and that it doesn't speak for all jews. \_ Where? \_ as a Jew? Why should that matter? Your editorial opinion gains some sort of special status because you're a Jew? Get over it. \_ you get over it! I'm simply saying that I've never f--king heard of the 'jewishworldreview' and that it doesn't speak for all jews. \_ you never heard of it so it must be lame. and you're a jew. and it doesn't speak for you. uhm, sorry, but, uh, DUH! NO SHIT! I'm also a Jew but I hope we're not too closely related. I suspect you're from the missing 13th tribe that went out for beers when the rest of us were trying to figure out wtf was going on. you folks got lost on the way back and ended up in berkeley, eh? \_ Great article... especially the part on the traitorous Rep. McKinney. \_ look. provide evidence to a court in a timely manner, and it's not racial profiling. This article is bullshit, but not for the reasons a lot of people are thinking. It's knee-jerking against other knee-jerkers. Everybody involved in this discussion needs to grow up. \_ It's not knee-jerk. It's actually really accurate. Even after 9/11 when the feds started rounding up arabs, guess who started whining about racial profiling, racism, and etc? Yup, that's right, just like the article said.... All the usual suspects. \_ Because racial profiling is illegal and wrong. The mass roundup, secret trials, and being held in custody without charges thing is ONLY accepted because of the terrorist attack AND because the detainees are a minority. The writer makes the illogical assumption that Bush would have done the same things before September 11 the same as he did after the attack only if he had more knowledge about it. Of course, he wouldn't have gotten away with it! \_ Racial profiling, if not for an arbitrary reason, is not wrong and shouldn't be illegal. A country has to protect itself, and sometimes that means at the slight expense of a certain racial group's comfort. In a case like this, when a danger terrorist group is known to be made up people of certain ethnic descent, it could be a wise idea to do what this article describes. \_ How 'bout we try developing a decent intelligence agency so we actually find INDIVIDUALS instead of GROUPS... But that's obviously far too expensive and time consuming. So instead we'll go to war in a country that has nothing left to bomb so we'll have some pretty pictures for the front page, not to mention a paved path for a nice shiny oil pipeline. |
| 2002/5/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24781 Activity:very high |
5/9 "Why Don't I Care About the Palestinians?"
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/680667/posts
"The Closed Circle: An Interpretation of the Arabs"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/1566634407/customer-
reviews/ref=as_pt/103-2659247-3789407
\_ hey free republic guy, that article was even dumber
than the usual crap you link to in the motd, are
you ok? sign your name someday, we'll make you meatloaf
and cheer you up. - danh
\_ Defend your point.
\_ Dan doesn't need to defend his point. He's a leftist. That
just makes him magically right when he says you're dumb. I
read the article expecting some ridiculous freeper rant but
it actually makes sense. The arab world has produced nothing
of value economically, culturally, or in any other way in a
few hundred years. The palestinians have the double curse of
being under UN run 'camps' and being hated by their 'brother'
arabs for 50+ years who use them as a pawn against Israel.
But Dan says freeper = bad, thus it must be so.
\_ I dunno: I'd say we value the oil that
all the Arabs produce quite a bit.
\_ Uh the arabs didn't produce the oil in the sense
of doing anything. They sit on it and europeans
and Americans come in and do everything and pay
them some money for access. This is hardly a
huge cultural or economic achievement to be
proud of. Anyway, their heyday is over. Saudi
Arabia's infrastructure was never really built
up properly during their big time and now they're
fucked. When the oil runs out or we switch to
other fuels over the next 30 years, then what?
Back to eating sand and reading the Koran and
hating those evil Americans and Europeans who
'epxloited' them.
\_ do i get free food if i post a link to a dumb editorial
also? -!op
\_ This is only worth a "see the above reply about Dan"
\_ http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/161yaihr.asp |
| 2002/5/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24707 Activity:nil |
5/3 What is likely the final word on the Jenin massacre and other Israeli
atrocities. Makes it very clear the extent to which Israel is guilty
of these horrendous crimes.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/ck20020503.shtml
\_ Yes, an op-ed piece at a site devoted to "conservative columnists"
(including Oliver North) is definitely the "final word."
\_ It's going down exactly like that. You know why? Because
the way he says it is exactly the way it is.
\_ I really liked the way he used the phrase "phantom menace" |
| 2002/5/2-5 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24682 Activity:high |
5/2 Cool. Fake Palestinian funeral caught on tape in attempt to dupe the
UN.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=158947&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0
\_ it's HOLLYWOOD!!! The US Govnt contracts HOLLYWOOD and their fancy
computer graphics. It's all conspiracy!!! Go Bin Laden.
\_ Faking a funeral, how low can you get. That is way worse that
slaughtering unarmed innocents.
\_ Human Rights Watch (a group that has condemned israel on many
issues) did an investigation and said that there is NO EVIDENCE
FOR A MASACRE IN JENIN. They report about 56 palestinians dead.
Israel reported 54 a couple of days ago (45 gunmen and 7 tragic
civilians [which perez was sorry about]). Israel didn't want
the UN because of their Eurocentric ideas and problems in the
past with these UN groups making mistakes against Israel that
they later had to retract (i.e. Lebanese fighters using UN
uniforms to abduct Israeli soldiers -- all denied by the UN
which later corrected itself do to videotape that they themselves
shot!).
\_ Who said anything about Jenin? Both sides kill civilians
all the time, this is a much bigger problem than some
fake funeral. Try to keep your sense of perspective.
\_ They also caught them pulling bodies out of a cemetary and putting
them in the rubble. How can you believe anything these people tell
you? It's like purgery in our courts, it denies you the ability
to be trusted in the future!
\_ How come this is not reported by media in US which is pro-Isarel?
\_ It was on FOX NEWS! Watch the real news, not that CNN biased
crap!
\_ It's on http://cnn.com now too.
\_ Don't listen to Communist News Network. It is controlled
by the wealthy Palestinian World Government.
\_ I see. I missed that.
\_ Where'd you get the idea US news is pro-Israel? More like it
isn't too far (Euro-style) into anti-Israel bias.
\_ a troll at the end of a tired-out thread is not as likely
to be functional as a troll. you've got to hit it
earlier. no one even reads this far down in the
thread.
\_ Dumbshit just because you're blind to it doesn't make it
a troll. Troll: most over used word by those with no
other points to make, usually used by the blindly
agenda driven. |
| 2002/5/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24665 Activity:very high |
5/1 "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH: It's Time to Cut Israel Loose"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&ncid=742&e=7&u=/020429/7/1gwi9.html
\_ Works for me.
\_ Yeah. We should cut them loose, so that they can finish the
job. Without US restraint Israel would have "Nuke and Pave"'d
the middle east long ago and the world would have been a much
safer place.
\_ israel is another welfare case. I'm sick and tired of my hard
earned tax dollars goign out of the country. they can do whatever
the hell they want as long as my tax dollars aren't involved.
We don't owe them shit.
\_ Ok, lets stop sending *any* money outside this country. I'm
all for that. Are you?
\_ quote: "Right-wing extremist Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) has
unleashed a horrific onslaught upon Gaza and the West Bank that has
left all but the most hardened pro-Israel hawks disgusted". It's a
good thing this is in the op/ed section because this certainly
isn't true with in Israel itself. Sharon leads a coalition
government which includes the left wing party of Peres, etc. I
like op/ed pieces. They don't confuse the issues with the facts.
They just make stuff up to suit their agenda and stick by it.
Facts are so annoying when you've got an axe to grind. Next up an
op/ed piece of Arafat the Peacemaker and why he should be the head
of the UN Panel on Democracy and Peace.
\_ "horrific onslaught"? compared to the jews being murdered by
millions, some palestianian terrorists gets killed and that's an
onslaught? hey, please hand me over your gfs and wives and let me
fuck them since that's the right thing to do, if you don't you're a
racist/facist/republican
\_Which jews getting murdered by millions? Is settling the west bank
somehow necessary to make up for the holocaust? Many more
palestinian civilians than israelis have died in the current
conflict.
\_ If you die with a gun in your hand or a bomb in the trunk or
explosives in your home you're not a civilian.
\_ So I guess the Jews of the Warsaw ghetto uprising
are not civilians?
\_ No. They didn't have 50 tons of Iranian weapons getting
shipped in and didn't have the EU and US sending hundreds
of millions of dollars a year to Arafat's Swiss bank
account.
\_ Way to duck the issue while implying that all Palestinians
(or all who have died) are terrorists, which is, of course,
a blatant lie.
\_ You're putting words in my mouth. I *never* said any
such thing. Thanks.
\_ Another good quote: "Sharon's excessive use of force is causing an
increasing number of Americans to wonder whether it's time to cut
off aid and let both sides slog it out." Okey dokey, so by slog it
out are you saying we'd just go isolationist and if the Israelis
bombed everything flat and kicked the survivors over the borders
of Egypt, Lebanon and Syria that would be ok with you? Are you
totally insane? Or did you just not read your own URL? |
| 2002/4/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24616 Activity:high |
4/27 http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Israel-Palestinians.html I'm sure the 5 year old girl was a big threat. \_ so does all these Palestinian pregnant women who were not allow to pass the check points to deliver the babies \_ You mean like the ones they caught with fake babies that were really bombs or the ones they stopped in ambulances that were being used to carry weapons and bombs contrary to all concepts of international law? |
| 2002/4/25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:24592 Activity:nil |
4/25 Egypt wants $100b to attack Israel. I'm not making this up.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/24/1019441265555.html
\_ there sure are a lot of landmines in the way, did
they recently invent magic hovercraft?
\_ Grade: D-
Comments: Dropped from C- to D- for saying "I'm not making this
up." - troll grader
\_ You're an idiot. It's a serious topic when a country announces
they'll attack another country presumably with the intent of
completely destroying them and killing everyone if the price
is right. Or maybe you're a moron. I'm undecided on that. |
| 2002/4/20 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24497 Activity:high |
4/19 Please accept my apology for believing and posting to the motd
everything I've posted for the last year or so. After reading this
link I now truly understand the way the world really is.
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles3/plot.html
\_ Go stick your head in a pig.
\_ You know "they" are coming for you. From the same folks you
can find out how the Israeli government at all levels is engaged
directly in the white slave trade from the former soviet states.
\_ You obviously have not spent enough time reading this guy. It is
not the Isrealis, it the FreeMasons. No, its the Catholics. Wait
not the Isrealis, it's the FreeMasons. No, it's the Catholics. Wait
it's the Illuminatis. Maybe NATO is in on it, too.
\_ I read it all. It's all true! |
| 2002/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24487 Activity:nil |
4/18 Toursists don't read the news!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1936000/1936241.stm |
| 2002/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24484 Activity:nil |
4/18 http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,685169,00.html Israel is creating the terror infrustrature as we speak. \_ Uhm yeah. Once again, be careful of your sources. The Guardian will print anything. Anything Left. Anything Anti-Israel. Anything Anti-American. It doesn't have to be true or even close to true. The British have a much difference sense of what good journalism is than Americans. We don't always do it right but many in this country at least try. \_ Is the Guardian mainstream newspaper or is it supermarket tabloid? \_ In Britain there isn't a difference. That's the point. There are some on the motd who rag on the washington post as a moonie-paper and instantly dismiss anything from the wp. I'd take the WP as The One True Word long before I accepted *anything* from a British fish wrap like the Guardian. \_ The Guardian, The Telegraph and The Times are the three most well respected English newspapers, on par with The Times and The Post. The above poster is seriously confused. He can't even bother to figure out the difference between the Washington Post and the Washington Times. Either that or he is deliberately trying to mislead you. \_ Moonie this, Washington Whatever that. Who cares? \_ i think it's a big deal a fairly major newspaper is owned by the fucking moonies. why don't you? \_ "well respected" by whom? Read the damned article. It would be lucky to get a spot as an op/ed piece in any semi-self-respecting American paper. \_ http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,3932025,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,3932086,00.html \_ Christ oh mighty! Where did you learn to not read? These are British awards and Net awards to a British rag. It's like the Fox Committee awarding the fox an award for Best Keeper of Chicken House. Damn! \_ You are right. The rest of the world is wrong. End of argument. Do you have a similarly low level of regard for the Pulitzer prizes? \_ Like the ones where they give awards out for stories based on lies? Yes, I do. Please try to be more aware of your surroundings. It's intellectually safer that way. \_ The pulitzer used to mean something, but these days it yet another highly political award, just like the Peace Prize. \_ American papers suck (except for San Jose Mercury News)! \_ I used to read the People's Daily World (later renamed the People's Weekly World after the Soviets fell). Now that was *quality*. \_ Seriously, everyone knows American papers suck. Read Economist instead! \_ No thanks. The People's Yearly World is good enough for me. \_ Yeah. The merc's is the only one with a Fry's section! |
| 2002/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24476 Activity:very high |
4/17 must reads:
http://www.ajds.org.au/intifada/mendes.htm
http://www.ajds.org.au/mendes.htm
I love this guy, we should all (including me sometimes) give this much
thought and consideration to all sides in the middle east.
\_ This guy sounds pretty biased to the palestinian side. Just listen
to the language he uses on scholars who take Israel's side.
\_ yeah, I thought that too, but it is still getting better, try
this, though I haven't finished it yet, soooo....
http://www.ajds.org.au/intifada/morris_shlaim.htm
\_ yeah, I thought that too, but it is still getting better
\_ Example please? I think it's quite rational. At least it lays out
the basic claims on each side pretty well, and I agree with the
conclusion. Namely that a) Israel's settlements in wb&gaza and
b) Palestinians' "right of return" claim are obstacles to peace.
Those settlements are morally indefensible IMO. Actually I
haven't even seen someone try to defend the idea. Any takers?
But clearly giving refugees land back from Israel isn't feasible
anymore.
\_ "Arabs didn't tell Palestinians to leave. Benny Morris says
so. All these other people who disagree are just
'ill-informed historians and propagandists,' repeating the
same arguments ad infinitum." Without looking more closely
into the issue, I ll take the side of many scholars who claim
X, over a single Benny Morris guy who claims not X.
\_ One concept: Jews all over the Middle East got kicked out of
the various Arab countries, their property taken, etc, and
went to Israel to start again because they had no where else
to go. They have no "right of return" to Syria, Tunisia,
Egypt, Iraq, Iran, or anywhere else. Palestinians are
*specifically not* welcome in _any_ Arab country. No one
wants them. They're a convenient economic, political, public
relations and terrorist weapon against Israel. The West Bank
was even worse off under Jordan's rule up to '67. In the
late 70's, Jordan officially gave up all claim to the WB.
Egypt no longer claims Gaza. Why is it the Jews will take in
other Jews who got forced from their homes but Arabs go out
of their way to *not* take in their so-called brothers?
Hint: *no one* wants the Palestinians. Jordan, Egypt, and
Kuwait all forced hundreds of thousands off their land in
one way or another. What's so damned special about the
Palestinians anyway? There are plenty of other people who
have a *much* better claim to an independent state and we
*never* hear about them. Kurds, Basque(sp?), Tibetans come
to mind. How about you give up some land for the American
Indians? You realise you live on tribal lands? Either
you've gotta say "tough shit" and life sucks to all of these
people or you're a hypocrite by not believing in all of their
causes, especially Native American's. Think about it. I'll
touch on this Native American thing later. You'll like it.
\_ What?! Are you saying that it's ok for the Israelites to be
as *barbaric* as the Turks, Saddam Hussein and the *commie*
Chinese?! Mighty fine company!
\_ And the Spanish and the US and many others. I'm saying
there's no difference and the *whole* world plays the
"might makes right" game. The difference in the Middle
East is that playing nice = get wiped out.
\_ Yea, Jews take in other Jews by settling them on Palestinian
land.
\_ And Arabs make more land for themselves by killing and
kicking out Palestinians *and* Jews. Chew on *that*.
\_ I like how neither of you talked about settlements.
One difference in this situation is that there just so
happens to be a chunk of land sitting there that is
rather perfect for creating a Palestinian state out of.
Well, if not for Israel deliberately building armed
camps all over the place. With Native Americans, yes
what the USA did was wrong. If you see someone doing
wrong, does Jewish religion say it's ok to copy them?
Or does it say to just not give a shit about non-Jews?
Go see the movie "The Bicycle Thief" btw. Also look at
East Timor, sometimes the UN actually kind of works.
Who says I don't believe in other people's causes?
But the US did its stuff 150 years ago. It's too late.
It's not too late in the case of Palestinians. And like
the other poster implied, do you want that Israel is
in the same moral category as those other regimes?
\_ How is it too late for the Native Americans? Hello?!
There's still MILLIONS of them on reservations right
here in this country TODAY! They're still being kicked
around and abused by our country RIGHT NOW! Are you
saying because the abuse *started* a long time ago, that
it is somehow OK that we continue it today? Sheesh.
Talk about settlements: ok, *you* currently live, work
and play on Native American land. When you're ready
to abide by the zillion and one treaties your government
broke to your direct benefit today then you'll be in a
non-hypocritical position to discuss other's faults. |
| 2002/4/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24463 Activity:insanely high |
4/17 Is it possible for a politician or journalist to say that he/she is
against foreign aid to Israel without being called a Nazi? That
money is starting to seem like an entitlement, like welfare or
social security.
\_ no one seems to have mentioned the USS Liberty yet, so
i'll just mention it now. consider it mentioned.
\_ not possible. We have too many rich politicians who are jews,
hail to democracy.
\_ yeah fuck those jews for participating!
\_ Is that a question?
\_ Honestly, now I can understand what were all these anti-Jewish
sentimentalism were all about before WW2. Jewish is an invisible
minorities in the society that dictates our nation's foreign
policy. Because of them, US is the only Israel's ally in this
conflict, totally disregards UN resolutions and other international
law.
US can EASILY control Israel's behavior by just stop the flow
of our AIDs, or even call upon temporary economic sanction until
Israel pull out of Westbanks (both troops and settlement). But
instead, we just demand cease fire. Every cease fire in the past
only yields more and more of settlement, and you blame Palestinian
for not giving up their only card on their hand?
We have been unconditionally support of Israel since 1948.
This put US in a very bad position in terms of being a mediator
aid.
I honstly think that Powell's trip was just a show to American
people that Bush is trying to do something.
\_ Yes! The Zionist Conspiracy folks have arrived! Sweet! *Now*
you have seen the real Nazis hit the motd. Glad you could show.
\_ Tell us about ZOG and what you learned from reading Meinkampf.
\_ Not if you are Pat Buchanan. We give more to Egypt BTW.
\_ Not true. Military + econ = 3B/yr
Aid to Egypt is only 2B/yr.
\_ Even the new east span of the
Bay Bridge costs more than that.
And that's not even a whole
bridge.
\- who dont you compute the
per capita aid to israel.
[meaning per israeli person]
\_ Assuming Israel has 4
million people, it would be
$750 per year per person.
For US, it would be $10 per
year per person. Not much,
but that's just the official
aid. I read that US gives
isn't a special case. We're supporting the world.
a lot of weapons to Israel
for free, not to mention
technological transfers, etc.
3 billion per year is equal
to 8.2 million per day.
That's just like 40 nice
little houses every day.
\_ Tech: actually they take
our planes, improve them
and tell us how to do it.
\_ Nah, that's more true
of armor than
aircraft.
\_ F15. Look it up.
\_ Yes, they do that a
little, but mostly
it goes the other
way.
\_ How much tech or
other quality
work do we get from
the arabs? How
about intelligence?
Obviously not
getting enough int.
help. 9/11.
\_
Arabs have oil, and that's
what we need. Our aid to
Israel is supposed to help
them defend themselves and
help us maintain a military
presense in the oil-rich
region. Our aid is not for
the Israelites to behave
like assholes and bullies.
\_ You suggest we send ovens
instead of weapons? Wake
up. No matter what the
Israelis do, the Arabs want
them dead. 1948, 1967, 1973,
etc. Once the oil runs out
or we switch to something
else, the arabs are going
back to sand and camels
while Israel will continue
on as a first world
democracy. While you're
reading up on 48,67,73, you
should look up how many
Arabs killed other Arabs in
the last 50+ years and also
see what Jordan did to them
up to 67. Ignorance is
bliss, eh?
\_ No, I suggest we stop
aid to Israel to show
them who's the boss.
Israel won't fall to
Arabs anytime soon. In
fact it can kick their
ass easily. In fact,
it can even kick our ass
for a while (see above
about F-15). I think
they should listen to
us instead of being
bullies and assholes.
\- as far as i know aid to israel
has always exceeded aid to egypt
after camp david and assume before
as well. i believe aid to both was
reduced not long ago, so it is
possible the philippines gets more
aid but they certainly have more
reason to feel the US "owes" them.
\_ Unless that jewish student who protested at Sproul on the
Palestinan side against Isarel becomes a politician. I saw him on
TV.
\_ *GREAT* troll! You of course completely dismiss the money we give
to Egypt and the fact that they both get money going back to the
Camp David accords in the late 70's which brought official peace
between the two countries. You earn a cookie and *2* points!
\_ There, you have your answer. You might be called a "troll"
instead of a "Nazi," but obviously Isreal is entitled to
US foreign aid (which they have been getting for a lot
longer than since Camp David).
\_ They're entitled to it by treaty. It is in the interests
of the US to assist any Western nation as well and thus we
give various forms of aid going back to before our entry in
WWII to Europe, post-WWII Japan, SKorea, and others. Israel
isn't a special case. We're supporting the world. The amount
going to Israel is peanuts.
\- per capita aid to israel stands way way way out.
the fact that americans spend more on frozen pizza and
lipstick is another matter. --psb
\_ Per capita isn't meaningful because this isn't about
buying Israeli citizens pizza and lipstick. It's about
tanks and jets. No matter how many people you have you
still need a certain amount of hardware to defend a
certain land area when your enemies surround you, have
sworn to kill all of you, and out number you a few
hundred million to 6 million. Anyway, all this math
is hard. Let's go shopping!
\_ The US has spent over $20,000 per Isreali citizen
with nothing but headache to show for it. What is
this, the Eighth Crusade? Why does what it got
spent on matter?
\_ You're right. It would be cheaper to buy ovens
and ship them to their neighbors. Good idea.
\- wouldnt it be cheaper to save somalis?
\_ well, considering that a 9mm bullet only
costs a few tenths of a cent to mass
produce, then yes. It's far cheaper to
save somalis.
\_ Save Somalis from what? Themselves? What
for?
\_ Hmm, 4 out of 5 head scientists who gave us nukes were Jewish,
maybe we are just repaying them . . . ya think?
But seriously, we are supporting the only Jewish state (yes, only
one, can you count how many muslim and christian states there are)
and a western democracy at that. PS: Did you know that the first
Intel plant able to make the Pentium IV was in Israel? It seems
they were the only one who could print such a detailed chip.
Furthermore, have you noticed how many times the enemies of Israel
have lied in their estimates? I say shame on us for believing such
crap and shame on CNN/NYT for only getting one source in many
cases. PPS: Shame on France, what is this, the return of the
Vichy government? They are only looking to support their weapons
sales and their need for oil (we actually can support ourself in
that regard) . . . Oh and do read up on who started attacking who,
and also why all the Palestinians voluntarily left their homes,
they were never kicked out! Meanwhile plenty of jews were kicked
out of Iran, Iraq, Eqypt, and so forth (not to mention Poland,
Germany, Spain, Italy, etc). If you prick us, do we not bleed?
\_ http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/palestine/refugeeFacts.html
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpalnew/glossarycollapsible.htm
\_ yes, I can find one-sided accounts as well, but many
Palestinians fled their homes so that the arab countries could
fulfill their promise of pushing israel into the sea and
returning palestine to them. The Palestinians have been
treated like shit by Jordan and Syria as well, why don't any
UN resolutions talk about that? Hmmm, I wonder, is it because
France, Russia, China (all have treated [or help others treat]
jews like scum) sit on the security council. Also what about
the right for jews to return to their homes. FUCK, I WANT MY
LAND BACK IN BARCELONA!! My family chose to flee during the
inquisition instead of the convert or die options they gave us.
Also, are you ready to give your home back to that Mexican
family our government kicked out so many years ago--I didn't
think so!
\_ I see. So since it happened to the Jews, it's ok for Jews to
do it to Palestinians? Well at least you admit it.
\_ Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Here is a great
treatment of the refugee problem (though he throws "in my
opinion" around to much. Ultimately (if you are lazy) he
attributes the problem to both sides:
http://www.ajds.org.au/mendes.htm
Another thought, Israel is 20% Arab and they have Arab
leaders in the Knesset, some of which have called votes
to end the existance of Israel . . . now that's democracy.
If Israel was really trying to "cleanse" themselves of
Arabs, why is 1/5th of their population arab? |
| 2002/4/15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24441 Activity:high |
4/14 A teach-in
Israel^s Real History: Palestinian Dispossession and Resistance
It is called a land without a people for a people without a land,
but the founding myths of Israel are no comfort to those of us
who have been watching the last twenty days of Israeli brutality
against the Palestinian people. But rather than representing an
aberration in Israeli policy, the massacres in Jenin and Nablus
are merely a continuation of Israeli policies already in place ^
dispossession, settlement, discrimination, and expansion. The
legacy of the state of Israel is not democracy but a series of
massacres of Palestinians ^ Deir Yassin, Qibya, Sabra, Shatila,
and now Jenin. Come to a teach-in about the real history of
Israel and find out why Palestinians have been resisting Israeli
occupation of Palestinian lands for over 54 years. Featuring
Elias Rishmawi of the American Arab Anti-Discrimination
committee.
Wednesday, April 17th 6PM 100 Wheeler Hall
\_ cool.
\_ history teaches us one thing : might makes right. get over it.
\_ Okay. I haven't gotten involved on the various Israel/Palestine
trolling on the motd, but dude, the above is ridiculous. Granted,
Israel's behavior with regard to Palestine isn't particularly
saintly, and, at times, is downright deplorable. Then again,
given that the widely held Palestinian view is that Israel has
no right to exist and should be destroyed, it's a little absurd
for Palestinian supporters to point at Israel and scream "You
bastards!" Furthermore, this seems to gloss over the fact that
Israel acquired the West Bank as a result of the Seven Days
(sometimes chronicaled as Six Days) War. In case you don't
actually read about history, that's when Egypt mounted a surprise
attack on Israel, because, in the words of Radio Cairo,
"The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the
Israeli aggression we welcome the battle we have long awaited.
The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall
destroy Israel."
Nevermind that Israel has repeatedly tried to return both the West
Bank and the Gaza Strip, but every time that it has done so, it has
been met with ridiculous demands and no concrete promises of
security.
So trolls go ahead. Continue playing the game of 'my side of the
conflict is more subjugated'. Watch as the hordes of Berkeley
faux-intellectual wankers get whiplash as their heads ping-pong
back and forth in a futile attempt to decide which group is more
oppressed. -dans
\_ Sounds like a even-handed scholarly view. ;-p (not) |
| 2002/4/3-4 [Consumer/Camera, Recreation/Humor, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24297 Activity:moderate |
4/2 is there any http://adcritic.com-like site around these days? \_ It's coming back soon; it got some sponsor \_ ifilm is kind of like it, not as good, but some of the same stuff \_ If you're looking for funny shorts, check out http://www.thelonelyisland.com I find it hilarious... but maybe just because this guy is a friend of mine. - rory \_ NYC jewish rappers (Beastie Boys) >> LA jewish rappers. \_ I think the key difference is that Beastie Boys are for real and these guys are basically a joke \_ I think the real difference is between othodox and reform jews. |
| 2002/4/2 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24294 Activity:very high |
4/1 Kissinger on the middle east:
http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/EdDesk.nsf/All/97F35199827B2FF5CA256B8800031382
\_ As Microsoft has decided their content is too '1337 for me as a
lowly Netscape user, it must not be worth reading.
\_ ? It's just some javascript. There's nothing funny in there.
\_ written by a trained MS monkey.
\_ Son, unlike you, I read the html/javascript and there's
nothing complicated going on in there. Are you using
NS 0.86alpha or what? NS is bad but it isn't *that* bad.
Or I could tell you what the Linux bigots say in response
to every Windows query, "get a real os and a real browser!"
\_ i see only freebsd bigots here. |
| 2002/3/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24061 Activity:moderate |
3/7 Racial profiling in Israel. Brutal oppression continues....
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/03/07/LatestNews/LatestNews.44770.html
\_ Quit trolling. Racial profiling in Israel is real, this is
not one of those instances however.
\_ They tackled some dude and dragged him out because he was
a) sweating, b) wouldn't answer the waiter's questions and
most importantly c) was Palestinian. Think about it. No troll.
\_ Did you read the article? According to the article, it seems
like he actually had a bomb. I must admit though, it's very
hard to tell since the writing is so poor. Did they
find a bomb, or did they just blow up a suitcase?
\_ Did they rough up anyone else or just this one guy for
looking nervous and being caught in a cafe being from the
wrong part of the gene pool? |
| 2002/1/21 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23613 Activity:nil |
1/19 http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/01/20/LatestNews/LatestNews.41961.html Arafat considering resignation or just Israeli propaganda? PLA is liquidating assets to stuff in private Swiss bank accounts? |
| 2002/1/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23603 Activity:high |
1/18 israelis have aarested aarafat.
\_ Look, cmlee, if you want people to actually listen to what you
have to say, you're going to have to (1) sign your posts and
(2) give your source for information.
\_ I think (1) would make it less likely people would listen to him.
-tom
\_ Source? (Even though I know this is just another
dumbass troll ...)
\_ They have moved a bunch of tanks to within 30 meters of his HQ
and encircled it. In a very technical sense you could claim he
was being held under house arrest, I guess, sort of, but they
have not "aarested aarafat".
\_ put him under hq arrest?
\_ http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-israel.story?coll=chi%2Dnews%2Dhed |
| 2002/1/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23597 Activity:nil |
1/17 Jewish mob beat and kill yet another Palestinian man then destroy
Palestinian government building. Your tax dollars at work supporting
Jewish terror in the Middle East.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-me/2002/jan/17/011701595.html
\_ I wish the Arabs / muslims had some balls and attacked Isreal.
That way Isreal would simply nuke them all, and
effectively remove them from the gene pool. The human
race would be better off. |
| 2001/12/28 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23390 Activity:high 75%like:23392 |
12/27
"So what ties us together? We're tied together by our belief in
political democracy. We're tied together by our belief in religious
freedom. We're tied together by our belief in capitalism, a free
economy where people make their own choices about the spending of
their money. We're tied together because we respect human life. We're
tied together because we respect the rule of law. Those are the group
of ideas that make us Americans."
''12/28 Europe / Arabia vs. Isreal / U.S.
...from the Spectator, a read so awesome, I wet my pants:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/597547/posts
\_ The kind of crap that sodans read is scary. And even scarier is
that they read it on a regular basis.
\_ Agreed - at least as concerns the nutty freerepublic guy.
\_ reiffin
\_ When are you going to learn to format properly? Let me guess,
this is from George "What election law?" Bush. |
| 2001/12/27 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23380 Activity:nil |
12/26 A history of Palestine, for all the Palestinian acolytes:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/fr/597264/posts
\_ You know, I was thinking. I think what Israelis should do is
borrow a chunk of land in the middle of Nevada and ... leave.
And take all their stuff with them. After the Palestinians
kill each other off, starve to death, or move somewhere else
where there are jobs to be had, the Israelis can move back to
their land.
\_ An offer like this was made just before the creation of Israel,
but the wouldbe Israelis turned it down.
\_ Gosh, I wonder why. |
| 2001/12/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23302 Activity:high |
12/19 It's official. There are no Palestinian civilians anymore. They're
all military including the children. From the horse's mouth:
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_6.html
\_ Is that a hoax?
\_ Not that I know of. Why should it surprise you that Arafat
says one thing in English for his American audience and a
completely different thing to his people on local media? It
is exactly what it says it is as far as I know.
\_ I see. I was just surprised that I didn't see it in Reuters
or other American media.
\_ Not to be Mr. Conspiracy Theorist, but maybe now is a good
time to seriously consider all those charges of media
bias, eh?
\_ are you sure? does the world tribune tap into some
secret news source no one else knows about? the other
articles on this site are pretty goofy
\_ goofy? The other headline stories right now are:
-Pro-China Japanese diplomat reported to have spy mistress
-Rice offers Israel expanded missiles defense cooperation
-Vulnerability of Russian airspace worries U.S.
-Israel charges EU aid going directly to Arafat
-Iran's Rafsanjani suggest nuclear attack on Israel
What's goofy? Spy mistresses are an old story going back to
the beginning of time and the other 4 look legit given current
world events. It's all pretty standard stuff. |
| 2001/12/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23291 Activity:very high |
12/17 more left wing propaganda!
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011224&c=1&s=friedman - danh
\_ This is a lie. It's all a lie. It says he was the 7th generation
of his family in Jerusalem and he was born in 1926 but we know there
weren't any jews there until around 1947 when the UN and Britain
said it was ok to kick out the Palestinians from their ancient
homeland. This is all right wing trash raising up a butcher and
a racist like some sort of holy man. I'm shocked you would post
this danh. I thought you were a good person.
\_ right-wing israeli ~ left-wing american
\_ whatever. its right wing trash.
\_ actually I was being sarcastic. I don't think it's left
wing or right wing, but the article is pretty sympathetic
to the palestinians. this is another in article
in a long series of recent articles about how miserable
the living conditions for the palestinians are,
and no one, israeli or palestinian, thinks a good
solution will happen anytime soon. i also thought
the "7th generation israeli" part didn't make
\_ whatever. its right wing trash.
any sense. - danh
\_ You discredit yourself when you say stupid stuff
like that. Jews were living in Palestine for many
years before the creation of Isreal so it is
entirely possible. It says he is a 7th generation
Jerusalemite, not Isrealite.
\_ Bullshit. There weren't more than a thousand or
so jews here and there wandering around doing
nothing important. This is ancient Palestinian
land. Always has been. Always will be. Who said
jews ever were there before 1947 anyway? Some old
jewish stories and some scraps of paper in a cave?
*Read* this thing. It makes it quite clear who
the good and the bad people are in the area. Let
me spell it out for you. Palestinian = good.
Jew = bad. 7th generation my ass.
\_ Oh right, and I suppose the Romans
conquered I dunno, maybe five or so Jews
to take Jerusalem. Mohammad never
even visited present day Isreal.
\_ You are obviously saying the opposite of what
you believe, in order to discredit the article.
Anyway, we have to remember that the biological
difference btw middle eastern Jews and
Palestinians is almost nil, the latter having
converted to Islam centuries ago. Their
mortal struggle is a brutal family quarrel.
\_ Both are sons of Abraham, except muslims
are descendants of a handmaid. |
| 2001/12/14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23241 Activity:nil |
12/13 ``This guy was in deep with the government'' and not a
legitimate member of JDL. ``No member would ever turn
on a fellow Jew,'' Krugel said. |
| 2001/12/13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23229 Activity:very high |
12/12 Israel officially declares Arafat/PLA/PLO persona non grata. Cuts
off all talks, ties, meetings, etc. 48,67,73 are in the history books.
Welcome to the start of the War of '01. I suspect the other Arab
nations won't be sending in troops this time though. I wonder if this
will turn into a mass expulsion from the west bank and gaza. Various
URLs are out there on several news services. Take your pick.
\_ Not to contradict this, but the U.S. won't allow any serious
encroachment by the Israelis. Whether this is good or bad,
I don't know, but I'm just saying that nothing has changed.
\_ "US won't allow"? And how would we forbid it?
\_ By cutting off the $4B/year in aid we give Isreal.
\_ Even if the US was in a position to "not allow" who says
the US wouldn't? Have you read a newspaper in the last 2
weeks. The US is "allowing" all sorts of things and in
fact has been quite encouraging through a mix of positive
statements and silence where normally the US would urge
restraint. Wake up. Arafat is over. The PLA is over.
The PLO is over. Put any thoughts of peace on hold until
someone steps up to take Arafat's place and is serious
about it. Given how powerful Hamas has become this could
take a loooong time. Anyway, Arafat is 71, has parkinson's
and looks like a corpse. He wasn't long for the world
anyway.
\_ The U.S. is exerting its influence right now.
The attacks by Israel aren't a massive, dismantle
the PLO type attack. It's a, "We'll blow up the
media facilities, surround all the towns, and then
stick our thumbs in our asses because we don't know
what to do next." Like I said, nothing has changed.
\_ Nothing has changed? Uh, ok, whatever. Keep
reading the paper. The Israelis have been getting
more and more active every day without any real
comment by the US. "massive, dismantle the PLO
type attack"s dont happen over night. It isn't
video game.
a video game.
\_ Those damned semitic people again. The US needs to cut off all
relations with all semitic people, Arabs, Jews, whatever. They're
all nuts.
\_ troll you very much.
\_ c'mon, this isn't even a troll. it's a mockery of trolldom.
do we need a basic FAQ or How-To for wannabe trolls? |
| 2001/12/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23227 Activity:nil |
12/12 Jewish terrorist arrested in LA. Let's see how much press this gets:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011212/ts/crime_jdl_dc_1.html
\_ Cool! This is one right step to show, or at least to pretend, that
we are not biased in that issue. I hope the press in the Islamic
world will cover this. -- Asian
<troll>
\_ Just another example of Anti-Israeli propoganda.
\_ Just another example of Anti-Palestinian propoganda.
\_ both just more examples of hate propoganda. Everyone
should meditate, breathe with their diaphragms and love.
</troll> |
| 2001/12/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23220 Activity:moderate |
12/10 http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-121101noexit.story An article on the psychology of Sharon & Arafat [One of the more interesting and educational discussion on motd restored. Let it stay for a few more days.] No. Let it go. It's done. |
| 2001/12/10-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23205 Activity:very high |
12/9 How come the media likes to talk about 1-2 dead Israelis but rarely
talks about thousands of Palistinians killed by Israelis gunship?
Are Palistianian lives less worthy than Israelis? -conscious jew
\_ Who has more influence in the US media? Jews or Palistinians?
\_ Who has more influence in the US media? Jews or Palestinians?
\_ Ultra Leftists.
\_ That woman, Ms. Lewinsky.
\_ Ah ha! Exactly! Jew Temptress ruins career of
pro-Palestinian President with aid from Jew controlled
anti-Palestinian right wing media!
\_ Yes.
\_ When the oppressed side has suicide bombers who say things like
death to all the jews and explode themselves in public places,
the press tends to take the oppressors side. If the Palestinian
people started to use non-violent means of protest, we might
see something different.
On a different note, I think the Israel-Palestine situation is
all about provoking the other side into doing something that
plays especially badly in the press, and claiming victimhood
while you're fucking the other side back.
\_ The Palestinians were at one point much less violent, at
least for a people who had their homeland stolen. But they
got no attention (positive or negative) until they carried
out some gruesome acts of terrorism. Israel's PR system is
enough to give any Redmond spin doctor a woody. Once they
had the ear of the international community, the Palestinians
tried peace, but Israel continuously baited them.
\_ The Palestinians tried peace? Are you intentionally ignorant?
1999. Arafat walked away from 99% of everything he had been
asking for. They gave him everything. He refused to talk
further and then called for more intifada.
\_ How much of the Right of Return was offered?
0% you mean, not 99%. This is a right guaranteed
by the UN and all signatories to the Geneva Convention.
\_ Israel offered 20k. Arafat wanted 400k. There was no
further discussion since Arafat fled the talks without
counter offering. Sorry for providing facts that don't
match your opinions.
\_ 20k != 90% 400k.
IF he offered 99%, he might as well have gone 100%...
\_ There were many other things offered and on the
table than any right of return. You're not being
honest if you look at one thing which Arafat
didn't even *try* to talk about and say it's all
Israel's fault when he got just about everything
he was asking for on every other topic. If you're
going to be intentionally intellectually dishonest
then we can stop right now, you can get the last
post and walk away thinking you're really smart.
\_ I'm not blaming Israel. I'm just saying that
99% is utter bullshit, but the 20k/400k analogy
is much more accurate.
\_ And another thing: The West Bank belonged to
Jordan. It's Jordanian land if not Israel's. If
you think it should be "returned" to anyone, it
should be "returned" to Jordan, a Palestinian
country, not Arafat, a Palestinian terrorist.
\_ All this tells me is that the Palestinians must TRAIN HARDER.
It is not an understatement to say that with each day that
Hamas, Islamic Jihad, et al. continue to exist as they are,
the Palestinian people will suffer just much more for it.
\_ You know I'm not big on Isreal BUT you have a pretty
revisionist version of history there.
\_ read this article without getting mad:
http://www.harpers.org/online/gaza_diary/?pg=1 - danh
\_ The Palestinians better stop the suicide bombing, yes?
\_ It makes me mad that people with such obvious prejudice and
bias can be published in major papers (although the NYT is known
to be heavily biased) and get taken seriously by anyone as a
reporter. Once again all the Arabs have names and faces and are
real people and the Israelis are the Evil Faceless Hordes.
This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about earlier
concerning media bias against Israel and in favor of terrorist
suicide bombers. Yes, it makes me mad.
\_ i guess this proves soda is very diverse. I read an awful lot
of print media, and i would say in the articles I read
(I don't confine myself to reading left wing hippie rags either)
the palestinians are faceless, and the israelis are portrayed
in a more favorable light. yes no one is blameless, but i think
the article is pretty good at depicting the palestinians as living
in completely miserable economic conditions. feel free to
refute! - danh
\_ How come we always hear from the families of the suicide bombers
but never from the families of the real victims? Are Jewish victims
worth less than Muslim terrorists?
\_ I don't hear anything about families of suicide bombers.
Much more common is Palestinian police/kids getting whacked.
\_ You don't? I read several papers every day. Most of the
suicide bombings have names and interviews with the bomber's
family but the victims are just body count. What exactly
are you reading that you're unaware of this?
\_ nytimeslatimescnnwashingtonpostjpostmsnbc
okay, I should qualify what I said before to
"I hear 2x-3x more about the kids/policeman getting
whacked than the suicide bombers families."
\_ Then you're reading but not comprehending. All of
these sources do exactly as I said. In the future
(god, there's a sick thought) after a suicide
bombing in Israel see how many victim names you
get vs. the bomber and his family and see who gets
most extreme version of distorsion and pure hatred.
interviewed, if anyone. Keep track.
\_ They talk about the Jewish families in http://jpost.com
naturally. As for the U.S. outlets, they
don't usually, I admit, and say stuff like
"young people out for a good time got blown up."
\_ There is a tendency to accuse anyone with the slightest
concern for Isreali action of bias and prejudice, while
editors like William Safire of the NYT get away with the
most extreme version of distortion and pure hatred.
That the gaza diary is posed on http://harpers.org online rather
than in NYT on paper is a good example. Recently for
various reasons there is a bit more coverage for the
Palestinian plight but I suspect it will be shortlived.
I have been reading the NYT for many years and they almost
always report suide bombing of Isreal as a profound
tragedy, while only occasionally make passing mention of
the brutal oppression the people under the occupation has
to endure. Whenever they do, my Isreali friend will cry
"bias bias," and some other will cry "anti-semitic." Deep
in their heart they know there is something seriously
wrong, something contradictory to all the good liberal
and often socialist education fed to them by the Ashkenazi
labor government. But when their conscience conflicts and
challenges their country's very legitemacy of existence
and the morality of their daily life, they enter into
vehement and violent denial, just like almost anyone else
would. The Gaza diary link was posted before but removed
And yes, the Palestinians are brutal and stupid with all the
suicide bomging. If someone even tries to run Americans
out of their American dream homes, we will be sure to drop
tons of cluster, oxygen depleting, bunker busting bombs
on them. The Isreali and the Palestinians are far more
alike, both genetically and mentally, then they both like
to admit. Many researches show that most Palestinians are
not Arabs but Jews who adopted Islam. I believe if their
positions are switched they will behave exactly the same.
\_ The day I see Hamas/Islamic Jihad/PFLP renounce
Israeli armies in the earlier wars and laugh at that.
Israelis believe in strength, as exemplified by Sharon.
The Palestinians just cannot impress them with the
inefficient and ineffective method of suicide bombing
and a kill ratio that tilts heavily against themselves.
terrorist acts or rendered ineffective by Israeli,
international, or Palestinian deeds, is the day
I start feeling sympathy for the Palestinian cause.
Until then, Israel in my book can assassinate leaders
of these organizations and continue acting oppressive.
- I don't necessarily believe what I just wrote, but I
sure bet a lot of Israelis do.
\_ How much will that sympathy help them? Isrealis
think the Palestinains fled in the face of advancing
Israeli army in the earlier wars without a good fight
and they laugh at that. Israelis believe in strength,
as exemplified by Sharon. The Palestinians just cannot
impress them with the inefficient and ineffective
method of suicide bombing and a kill ratio that tilts
heavily against themselves.
\_ My friend, sympathy is the key. The world turning
a blind eye to the Palestinian cause is because
of the wasting away of a sympathy.
\_ I am far more pessimistic. I think the
Palestinian cause is a lost one. Even if the
world does not turn a blind eye, so what?
The strong one wins.
\_ What about South Africa? What about
Ireland?
\_ In South Africa the white is such an
isolated minority that unless their black
killing virus had worked, they would always
be demographically weak. And no U.S.
government will saction Isreal. As for
Ireland, I don't see it as a total victory
for IRA, whose cause is not worth much
sympathy regardless of the violence or not.
But they have proven such a headache for
GB that the latter had to make some
concession. This is an exemple in which
terrorism actually worked, to some extent
at least. By the way, the biggest backers
of the IRA is the Irish catholic community
in the U.S.
\_ You know, there has to be something wrong when the military wing
of Fatah is named "Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade"
\_ Easy enough to understand: when a Jewish settler kills a
Palestinian it is "self-defence," when a Palestinian does the
same it is "terror." When the Mossad assasinates a Palestinian
leader it is "justice," when Hamas assasinates an Isreali leader
it is "terror." When Ireali rockets blow up Palestinian homes
and civlians: "justice." Palestinian suicide bombers: "terror."
Any further questions?
\_ Yes. Where'd you get this shit? When a settler kills a
palestinian, they pick up his ass for murder charges. When the
Israeli army kills a known palestinian bombing planner, it is
self-defense. When Hamas murders an Israeli leader (who had
resigned, btw), it is murder. When Israeli rockets blow up the
buildings from which mortars are fired into Israeli civilian
areas it is self-defense. Palestinian suicide bomers blowing
up kids at the disco (no crime having bad taste in music) is
murder. Any questions?
\_ Easy enough to understand: Palestinian fanatics make an
effort to kill as many Israeli civilians as possibe; Mossad
tries to kill Palestinian fanatics. As for Jewish settlers
and Palestinian residents shooting at each other, many
wouldn't be so anti-Palestinian today if there weren't any
suicide bombers. Anyways, like I said, Israel provokes the
fanatics with settlements, erecting a police state, and acting
like oppressors in general -- its the radicals' fault if they
continue to blow themselves up in shopping areas in response.
\_ Israel cleaned *all* of the settlers out of the Sinai to
get a guaranteed peace with Egypt so we know Israel is
willing to do such a thing. The problem here is that Arafat
nor any other Palestinian leader can or will grant Israel
any sort of peace, guaranteed or otherwise. Get some real
leadership on the palestinian side that can guarantee a peace
and there'll be something to talk about.
\_ Although they lost the war, Egypt was too big for Israel
to destroy as a whole, so Israel was willing to clean the
settlers out for a peace treaty. My Isreali colleagues,
self-described "leftists", all claim they do not really
care about the settlement but want to use it as a
bargaining chip. So it seems fair that the Palestinians
have nothing but suicice bombing as *their* bargaining chip. |
| 2001/12/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23161 Activity:insanely high |
12/5 editorial on israel's true intentions in blaming
all violence on arafat:
http://www.fpif.org/commentary/0112arafat.html - danh
\_ the best solution is to set off a nuclear bomb in Jerusalem so
\_ Just say it: kill all the Jews and there will finally be peace in
the middle east. (There really won't but that's another story).
Just say what you're really thinking. Stop dilly dallying around
with side issues.
\_ Yes, we have people who want to kill all the Jews posting
on the motd. Didn't you hear?
that way no one can live there for 1000 years and all three
religions can go find some other place (hopefuly far apart) to
claim. it's stupid fighting over a small plot of land when the
earth is friggin' huge.
\_ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64854-2001Dec5.html
\_ i think the first url has a good point, that
every israeli armed reaction reduces arafat's
legitimacy, then they blame arafat again for terrorism,
then they invade again, etc.
\_ I think Arafat will be assasinated by the Hamas soon.
Then Israel would be forced to invade and take over
Palestine.
\_ truly a win-win situation for sharon :(
\_ who *wouldn't* benefit from arafat's death?
\_ the palestinians. the u.s. why do you think the
u.s. gave an explicit order to sharon not to touch
arafat a few days ago?
\_ Arafat was offered 99% of everything in 1999. He was *never* going
to get a better deal. He walked away. Tough shit now, baby.
\_ 99% of nothing is more like it. Without a right of return,
the offer is nothing.
\_ So you're saying that not allowing a right of return
(letting Palestinians who were removed from Israel return
\_ palestine can't become a state regardless of israel with 3 groups
there), combined with the creation of Palestine, is nothing?
\_ who suffers for arafat's mistake? how does killing him
improve the situation? idiot.
\_ It might. We know for a fact that Arafat isn't interested
in any deals. He walked away from the best deal possible.
So, yes, killing him might help. Also, just because I'm
more aware of the situation and have put more thought into
it doesn't make me an idiot. I'm sorry I don't follow your
mindless knee-jerk response to the whole thing. You suggest
what? That they talk some more? Whatever.
\_ arafat's nation suffers for his mistake. therefore, he
should eith step down to hand over to a compotent leader/group
or die so a compotent leader/group can take over.
\_ don't you understand that hamas is the power broker
right behind fatah? and hamas claimed responsibility
for the last terrorist attack?
\_ Competent government and Palestinian = oxymoron
sharing 33% each. There has to be a civil war in it to rid the other
2 groups so any nation can recognize them as an entire nation that can
be dealt with as one. Every nation goes through this, the US did in the
civil war, it will have to go through this for Palestine. |
| 2001/9/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:36332 Activity:nil |
9/19 Another one for the America haters
http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3ba89ffd1b40.htm |
| 2001/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22489 Activity:high |
9/16 "The deputy secretary of state, Paul Wolfowitz, said that 'the whole
civilised world has been shocked... and even portions of the
uncivilised world have started to wonder whether they're on the
wrong side.'"
\_ url?
\_ http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,552381,00.html
\_ While you're at the guardian, read this too:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,552785,00.html
\_ Why do you keep posting garbage from the guardian. Let me give
the guardian exegesis: "America is a bad evil empire, Palestinians
the Guardian's exegesis: "America is a bad evil empire, Palestinians
and 'repressed' people are good. Now let me ramble
on about some socialist utopia because I like to hear
myself talk."
the Guardian's exegesis:
"America is a bad evil empire, Palestinians and 'repressed'
people are good. Now let me ramble on about some socialist
utopia because I like to hear myself talk."
[ reformatted - motd formatting daemon ]
Except these are the same fucks that thrive in a society
protected by the post WWII 'dirty' foreign policy of the US.
They offer no plausible alternative (because there
are very few), they just critisize.
are very few), they just criticize.
are very few), they just criticize. For what its worth,
even the Quaran acknowledges Jews have a right to live
in Canaan (Isreal).
They offer no plausible alternative (because there are very few),
they just criticize. For what its worth, even the Quaran
acknowledges Jews have a right to live in Canaan (Isreal).
\_ You're an idiot.
\_I reciprocate the sentiment petulant traitorous twit.
\_ Hi racist Jew! You've been causing quite the ruckus lately.
\_ So you deny the Quaran and Bible grant Canaan to Jews
and Arabia to the Muslims. BTW I love Buchanan.
and Arabia to the Muslims. BTW I'm a Buchanan fan.
\_ These postings are interesting because the offer a different
perspective than the mainstraim American press has offered so
far.
perspective than what the mainstraim American press has offered so
far. As for the British, I think they would differ with your
assesment that they are ungrateful for the efforts of the USj
assesment that they are ungrateful for the efforts of the US
during WWII. -payam
\_ I said Guardian not British subjects.
\_ I think the Guardian would beg to differ also. -payam
\_ No different than what you can find in the slightly-out-of-
mainstream American press like Salon, etc. What bothers me
about many of these types of articles is how the authors try
to throw in *every* *single* *thing* they don't like about the
US into the mix: Nicaragua/the Contras; US non-ratification
of the Kyoto treaty; walking out of the hijacked Durban
racism conference; "well, garwsh, that just proves all that
money we spent on missle defense sure was a waste, wasn't
it?" I knew that US activities abroad were often shameful,
bloody, and contradictory *before* the WTC bombing, thanks.
I don't need some snide European (or a snide wannabe-
European) writing condescending articles about what he
*thinks* I don't know right now. Still, if people want to
write articles on how US policy in the Middle East has
contributed to terrorism, that's their right. But when so-
called "journalists" use the deaths of 5,000 people to poke
sticks at America for every pet cause under the sun, that's
shameless, crass opportunism. I don't think that bin Laden
struck last week because he was upset about us not ratifying
the Kyoto treaty.
\_ Why don't you think about these pictures while you read these
these articles
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba3a5665fbd.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba1fbd33a84.htm
\_ while the Kyoto protocol may not have anything to do with
the WTC bombing, it's perfectly relevant in that it shows
how US foreign polic
\_ While the Kyoto protocol may not have had anything to do
with the WTC bombing, it's perfectly relevant in that
it shows how the US believes it can "go it alone" on
anything. Of course, if there's something we want to
do, we twist everyone else's arm to join our side or
suffer crossing the world's last "superpower."
\_ I hope by "uncivilised world" Wolfowitz wasn't referring to the
whole Islamic or Arab world.
\_ I hope by "the uncivilised world" Wolfowitz wasn't referring to the
whole Islamic world or the whole Arab world. |
| 2001/9/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22450 Activity:high |
9/14 USA Today Headline: "Palestinian leaders try to repair image --
Effort includes threats to the media"
http://usatoday.com/usatonline/20010913/3627513s.htm
\_ Why do Palestinians hate America so much? What's wrong with them?
\_ Israel has occupied Palestinian lands for decades. U.S. backs
Israel.
\_ The united states was pretty key in forming israel and (as the
poster below points out) supporting it with weapons and cash.
poster below points out) supporting it weapons and cold cash.
Additionally, US foreign policy in the middle east (dating back
to the cold war and after WWII) has been extremely mercenary --
we gave money and training to ANYONE willing to fight the
soviets; even if the current groups was in opposition to one of
groups we'd supported before. The fact that we've been playing
a pretty shifty game, coupled with the fact that their religious
beliefs are in oppostion to those of the US....
\_ the weapons the israelis use on palestinians
come from the united states. we are also
israel's biggest trading partner. many israeli
settlers living in well guarded compounds in the west
bank were united states citizens.
\_ Ah, like Uzis, Galils, Kfirs and Merkavas, not to forget
the Israeli nuclear program we actively sponsored. You
are a bit off-base; that hatred is the result of a
fairly uneducated and volatile population being taken
cynical advantage of by fanatical, resentful religious
groups. -John
\_ so we need to educate the population that the US
didn't give Israel gunships and missiles, but we sell them
to Israel, except Israel uses aid dollars we gave them?
I think saying we spend billions of dollars supporting
Israel is a valid point, no matter how much we educate
the Palestinians. we need to educate Israel into treating
the Palestinian minority in a more humane way.
\_ more so we need moderate/peaceful muslim to educate
the fanatics/uninformed that US and the rest of the
world are not against muslim, but we are against
world is not against muslim, but we are against
terrorists. Taliban is claiming that getting
to bin Laden equals to attack on musim, what kind
of f***** up logic is that?! But guess what, a lot of
muslim would belive the claim looking at all the
anti-arab activies/sentiment displayed. Step back
and think about it before you run down to your
local mosque and help Taliban to solidify their claim.
\_ There are plenty of reason why they hate us. We installed
Shah in Iran (not exactly most humane regime on face of the
earth). We support Iraq when it invaded Iran. We shut
down Iran passener jet because we think it is an F-14.
Ultimately, I think our unconditional support for
Israel didn't really help neither. What Israel has done
to Palestinians are identical to what we have done to
the native American: build nation upon the promise
land... by whiping out those who lived there for past
2000 years. Those sucide bomber are nothing more than
an desperate and fruitless attempt to prevent such
demise from happening.
soviets; even if the current group was in opposition to one of
the groups we'd supported before. The fact that we've been
playing a pretty shifty game, coupled with the fact that their
religious beliefs are in oppostion to those of the US.... --mice
religious beliefs are in oppostion to those of the US....
\_ the weapons the israelis use on palestinians
come from the united states. we are also
israel's biggest trading partner. many israeli
settlers living in well guarded compounds in the west
bank were united states citizens.
\_ I find it extremely disturbing that the US gives more money
in foreign aid to Israel than to any other country.
\_ Even the Quaran acknowledges Jews have a right to be
in Canaan.
of f*** up logic is that?! Step back and think about
it before you run down to your local mosque and
help Taliban to shore up their claim.
muslim would belive the claim. Step back and think
about it before you run down to your local mosque and
help Taliban to solidify their claim.
\_ The thing I am against is the economic sanctions
and bombings against Iraq 12 years after a war that
lasted 1 year. How many Kuwaitis and Nato soldiers
died in the invasion of Kuwait and defeat of the
Iraqi forces. How many Iraqis civilians have died
as a result of the economic sanctions? Seems like
the response is disproportionate to the crime. |
| 2001/9/13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:36295 Activity:nil |
9/12 So why do the western powers antagonize the Arabs the way they do?
\_ So who do Arabs antagonize westerners the way they do?
\_ So why do Arabs antagonize westerners the way they do?
a) why does Israel insist on creating "settlements" in Arab areas?
\_ Because God told them to.
b) why does Israel insist that Jerusalem must belong only to them?
\_ As opposed to say the PLO who will not let jews or christians
or any non-muslim into Jerusalem? Yeah let's just hand it over
to a bunch of inhuman thugs.
\_ This comment is idiotic. Non-Muslims go to Jerusalem all
the time.
\_ Because it is (or was) in Jewish hands. If turned over
to the PLO, all access to Jerusalem will be restricted
to muslims.
\_ Historically, when Jeruslam was in Arab or Muslim
hands, it was open to Christian pilgrims from around
the world.
c) why has Israel used live fire on rock-throwing Palestinian youths,
treated them like second hand citizens, subjected children to random
violent interrogations and searches and seizures?
\_ why does the media only show the rock throwing, and not
the molotovs and shots against the Israeli troups?
\_ Because the PLO employs children and youths as delivery
mechanisms for its bombs etc.
Oh yeah, let's not forget that the PLO also uses live fire,
its just that you don't see it on CNN.
\_ you do see it on CNN. but obviously these children are only
going to hate the more when all of them are treated with the
assumption of guilt. anyway Palestine is just one issue and
I think not the most important one to the rest of the Arabs;
palestinian terrorists seem mostly to target israel.
\_ Perhaps you should read this:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-horowitz091001.shtml
The PLO isn't kids who are feeling bad.
\_ written by a jew.
c) why has/does the United States prop up corrupt regimes in
South America, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc. etc... just to secure oil
and stop the "communist plot to take over the world"? CIA-assisted
coups all over the place supporting the same dictators we publicly
denounce.
Terrorists aren't crazy. They're incredibly desperate. If you think
about it, terrorism is the only deterrance to the western powers in
their conduct. If you were living under extreme oppression and the US
was the ultimate power behind your oppressors you'd cheer too when a
blow was made that actually meant something to them. There are so many
more issues here than people understand it's sickening. Of course the
tragedy is sickening too. But it's not like these muslims just randomly
hate the us for no reason, and blow themselves up for jollies.
\_ You should read this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14274-2001Sep11.html
\_ What oppression? Most of those Arab countries are prospering
with oil exports. I would make the exception with Iraq, who
invaded another country, Iran, who kidnapped US embassy workers
and has since sponsored terrorism, and the Palestinians who
may have some cause for rebellion but not to the point of
crashing planes into buildings.
\_ BTW Iran is *not* an Arab country. It's a Persian country.
http://www.freep.com/jobspage/arabs/arab2.html
\_ In Iraq, most of the people are dirt poor. Only a few control oil.
\_ I'd want to the police to shoot live rounds at rock throwers, too.
There's this silly misconception among people that they don't
deserve to be shot at if they throw fist-sized rocks at soldiers.
\_ at children? maybe that's because you're a sick fuck.
\_ a "child" with a handgrenade is still an enemy that needs
to be taken out.
\_ Too bad most motd bleeding hearts don't understand this.
\_ nah, it's usually kids intermingled with young adults
oh yeah, and calm down silly
\_ tell that to those advocating turning the middle east into
pavement and pointing to islam as the driving force here.
tell that to all the western leaders who spout predictable
crap about "terrorism will not stand" without any blip about
why we suffer terrorism. even the media has every fact you
might want to know...except in the faq there's no entry for
"why".
\_ nah, you can tell them that. I'm just making a single
point about rock throwing
\_ The PLO can lock up individuals in Palesitian radical factions
they suspect of planning suicide bombings.
The Israelis could stop building settlements.
Now, tell me why neither has occurred?
\_ Because the palestinians want more land, and Israel wants
all of their land back. You know, the land they had for
a long time, promised to them by God?
\_ You fucking idiot.
\_ Man, your ignorance is truly frightening.
\_ Your unfounded namecalling is truely frightening.
Are you incapable of logical refutation, then?
Display your "enlightenment" in the face of "ignorance"
\_ Why? Unfounded namecalling takes much less effort.
\_ I've got yer "logical refutation" right here pal.
\_ By your "logic", most of Europe should belong to Italy.
The US should be obliterated and the native Americans'
descendants given control. And I should own the world, since
mine are the Old Gods of Atlantis, who granted my people all
dominions of Earth. This was 20000 BC by the way.
\_ so what criteria do you propose to decide which
group owns the land? current possesion?
Okay, in that case Israel currently possesses a large
chunk of that land, so they should kick all the
self-professed palestinians out, and immediately built
settlements on every square inch of unsettled land.
When they surround a "palestinian" city, then they can
be considered as posessing the vicinity, so Israal should
be able to kick them out of those areas too.
You're missing the up-side of the biblical
interpretation. The bible has specific BOUNDARIES on
the land of Israel. Once they get that land, there will
be no further aggression from their side.
Unlike the palestinians, who just want as much land
as they can grab peacefully, and then as much on top
of that as they can get by force.
\_ dude, the bible is not a legal fucking document.
your obvious bias means this conversation can go nowhere.
the boundaries in the bible were an empire at its height,
in ancient times for a relatively brief period. a lot of
different peoples have lived there before and since. if
you don't understand compromise you're as vile as those
bombers.
\_ You cannot compromise with these people. To believe
that it is possible to do so foolish and ignorant.
The only "compromise" or "settlement" (pardon the pun)
that will appease the muslim race is the utter and
total destruction of the nation of israel, the jewish
race and anyone found to be sympathetic to zionism.
To any sane human being, these are unacceptable terms
which can never be accepted.
which can never be accepted. - ntop
\_ you learned your lessons well, sonny.
there is no muslim race.
secondly, building settlements in palestinian areas
is far from even attempting to compromise. sounds
like you're the one who is unable to compromise. |
| 2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22432 Activity:moderate |
9/14 Some of us are anti-NSA people. But now that this has happened,
have we changed our views about the role of NSA?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2001/09/13/national0614EDT0518.DTL
\_ I'm not one of the heavily anti-NSA folks, but I might be after
this. Why should we expand the powers of an agency that was
apparently taken completely by surprise by this? I would
suggest that perhaps the current set of agencies with their
WWII-era agendas should be replaced with a new agency with
a contemporary understanding of what to pay attention to.
\_ Same to CIA.
\_ silly sodans, who do you think would staff this "new" agency?
\_ I volunteer you, to start with. Only some pinko
commie would fail to rise to the challenge in our hour
of need.
\_ I volunteer to arrest anyone who uses the words
"pinko commie" in a non-ironic sort of way.
\_ Relax, I was just trying to make a point about how
federal agencies end up the way they do. I do
a lot of public sector related work. Good people
like, perhaps, yourself, stay away because they
mistrust the agencies. Granted my work is mainly
with more mundane outfits like the Bureau of Indian
Affairs or the Dept of Justice --ulysses
\_ article says that the gov't lost top talent to
the dot com's and other place. The gov't doesn't
pay that much.
\_ The pay issue is real, but the larger problem
that I see that is my friends on the left and
and the right disagree on everything except
their disdain for the gov't and anybody who
works for the gov't. Travesties like this will
re-occur until something is done to
re-establish some sense of respect for working
for the gov't. I don't know if this is possible
though. Things have gotten so bad. --ulysses
\_ I don't have any disdain for the government.
I just think they put way too much emphasis
on high-tech/electronic surveillance which
is great for collecting information from
the Russian millitary and innocent US
citizens but doesn't really do anything to
stop terrorism. We need spies, not satellites
and the government should pour more money
into the CIA than it does into the NSA
(not the other way around).
\_ I could hardly argue, and I hope current
events may bring others to that POV, as
well. --ulysses
\_ Point made.
\_ I'd be willing to work for free if it means
that this sort of bs can be prevented. I have
to admit, based on my work experience at nasa
I always though of gov't workers as lazy bums
sitting on thier arses playing solitare and
living off the labors of others (taxes). These
types of individuals need to go. We can never
again be complacent. Eternal vigilence is the
price of freedom.
a lot of public sector related work. --ulysses
that this sort of bs can be prevented.
\_ Israel has much better human intelligence capability. Don't know
about the post-KGB Russia.
\_ Israel has much better human intelligence capability.
\_ So why don't they go after bin Laden for us? It's about time they
did something for us for a change. |
| 2001/9/13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22419 Activity:high |
9/12 How convenient: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1541000/1541228.stm \_ About time. No more suicide bombers from that town, at least. \_ Oh? do you think the presence of Israeli tanks, soldiers, and killing will make the people into pacificists? \_ Probably not, but it will remove their ability to train each other so easily. \_ Perhaps if the tanks and soldiers are used to kill the people who are suicide bombers then the problem will be solved. \_ "All suicide bombers, please come out with your hands up!". |
| 2001/9/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:36280 Activity:nil |
9/12 Exscuse me for my ignorance, but why don't we just stop doing
whatever is making the terrorists mad? Why not pull out support for
Israel and let them deal with the PLO? Why would not supporting
Israel hurt the US? Does the fact that
10% or so of our politicians are Jewish and none are muslim
have anything to do with it? |
| 2001/9/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22411 Activity:insanely high |
9/12 So why do the western powers antagonize the Arabs the way they do?
a) why does Israel insist on creating "settlements" in Arab areas?
\_ Because God told them to.
b) why does Israel insist that Jerusalem must belong only to them?
\_ As opposed to say the PLO who will not let jews or christians
or any non-muslim into Jerusalem? Yeah let's just hand it over
to a bunch of inhuman thugs.
\_ This comment is idiotic. Non-Muslims go to Jerusalem all
the time.
\_ Because it is (or was) in Jewish hands. If turned over
to the PLO, all access to Jerusalem will be restricted
to muslims.
c) why has Israel used live fire on rock-throwing Palestinian youths,
treated them like second hand citizens, subjected children to random
violent interrogations and searches and seizures?
\_ why does the media only show the rock throwing, and not
the molotovs and shots against the Israeli troups?
\_ Because the PLO employs children and youths as delivery
mechanisms for its bombs etc.
Oh yeah, let's not forget that the PLO also uses live fire,
its just that you don't see it on CNN.
\_ you do see it on CNN. but obviously these children are only
going to hate the more when all of them are treated with the
assumption of guilt. anyway Palestine is just one issue and
I think not the most important one to the rest of the Arabs;
palestinian terrorists seem mostly to target israel.
\_ Perhaps you should read this:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-horowitz091001.shtml
The PLO isn't kids who are feeling bad.
c) why has/does the United States prop up corrupt regimes in
South America, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc. etc... just to secure oil
and stop the "communist plot to take over the world"? CIA-assisted
coups all over the place supporting the same dictators we publicly
denounce.
Terrorists aren't crazy. They're incredibly desperate. If you think
about it, terrorism is the only deterrance to the western powers in
their conduct. If you were living under extreme oppression and the US
was the ultimate power behind your oppressors you'd cheer too when a
blow was made that actually meant something to them. There are so many
more issues here than people understand it's sickening. Of course the
tragedy is sickening too. But it's not like these muslims just randomly
hate the us for no reason, and blow themselves up for jollies.
\_ What oppression? Most of those Arab countries are prospering
with oil exports. I would make the exception with Iraq, who
invaded another country, Iran, who kidnapped US embassy workers
and has since sponsored terrorism, and the Palestinians who
may have some cause for rebellion but not to the point of
crashing planes into buildings.
\_ I'd want to the police to shoot live rounds at rock throwers, too.
There's this silly misconception among people that they don't
deserve to be shot at if they throw fist-sized rocks at soldiers.
\_ at children? maybe that's because you're a sick fuck.
\_ a "child" with a handgrenade is still an enemy that needs
to be taken out.
\_ Too bad most motd bleeding hearts don't understand this.
\_ nah, it's usually kids intermingled with young adults
oh yeah, and calm down silly
\_ tell that to those advocating turning the middle east into
pavement and pointing to islam as the driving force here.
tell that to all the western leaders who spout predictable
crap about "terrorism will not stand" without any blip about
why we suffer terrorism. even the media has every fact you
might want to know...except in the faq there's no entry for
"why".
\_ nah, you can tell them that. I'm just making a single
point about rock throwing
\_ The PLO can lock up individuals in Palesitian radical factions
they suspect of planning suicide bombings.
\_ The PLO can arrest Palesitian radical factions they suspect
as participating in suicide bombings.
The Israelis could stop building settlements.
Now, tell me why neither has occurred?
Now, tell me why niether has occurred?
\_ Participating in suicide bombings? Aren't they already dead?
\_ Because the palestinians want more land, and Israel wants
all of their land back. You know, the land they had for
a long time, promised to them by God?
\_ You fucking idiot.
\_ Man, your ignorance is truly frightening.
\_ Your unfounded namecalling is truely frightening.
Are you incapable of logical refutation, then?
Display your "enlightenment" in the face of "ignorance"
\_ Why? Unfounded namecalling takes much less effort. |
| 2001/9/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:22398 Activity:nil |
9/12 Anyone know who is that Middle East/Israel correspondent for NBC
with the short hair. First name is Donna? |
| 2001/6/6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:21435 Activity:high |
6/5 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010605/od/transplant_dc_1.html \_ if this were an American movie, there would just be enough time for a big reconciliation scene and then the credits. --erikred \_ I first thought this happened in some third party country, but I was surprised to read that it occured right at Isarel where the heat of the conflict is. I'm deeply touched. I hope this will bring better relations to them just like the Turkey earthquake a few years ago did to the Turkish and the Greek. \_ By forming new settlements in Palestinian areas, Israel has taken and continues to take the position of aggressor in the conflict. The responsibility thus lies on Israel's shoulders. So far they have shown no signs of backing down and this incident won't change that in the slightest. You may see lip service at most. \_ yes, everyone knows that [new] Zionist settlements are the worst terrorism that could ever be perpetrated on the Palestinian people. \_ How can you equate Zionism to terrorism? That's like saying that guys liking women's breasts is sexism on an earlier motd post. \_ non sequitur. i said Israel is the aggressor. if you disagree why don't you make a cogent comment instead of sarcastic, meaningless drivel. \_ That was actually a quote from a Hamas spokesperson. I don't think he was being sarcastic. |
| 2001/5/29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:21379 Activity:kinda low |
5/30 Some good news in the world as the Israelis and Palestinians agree to
meet again for the first time in... months? More than a year? A long
time. http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/05/29/mideast.02/index.html
\_ did the israelis offer to stop settling in the west bank and gaza? |
| 2001/5/7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:21186 Activity:high |
5/6 When is Mother's Day?
\_ the 13th
\_ you're mom's not jewish, is she?
\_ your mom's not jewish, is she?
\_ Hello? College student? "you're" = a contraction of "you are".
"your" is the word you're (you are) looking for.
\_ Catholic
\_ First Sunday in may, I.e. TODAY YOU LOSER!
\_ coulda sworn it was next week... the 13th
\_ No, it's the second Sunday in May.
\_ When is yermom's day?
\_ everyday is yermom's day
\_ or night.
\_ Everyday is my lucky day |
| 2001/4/30-5/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:21143 Activity:insanely high |
4/30 Remember kiddies, do your part to arm china. buy more chinese goods
- help the PLA/PLAN/PLAAF.
\_ this is dumb. of course i'll buy chinese goods. if it's the same
quality for less, i'd be stupid not to. the real problem is our
trade policies that put no compensatory tariffs on imports from
nations that do not adhere to environmental and labor standards
that domestic companies must, and nations like Japan that have
high trade barriers to which we do not respond in kind, and groups
like whatever lobby is responsible for our continued monetary aid
to places like israel that i doubt any american really wants their
tax dollars being funneled to.
\_ Monetary aid to Israel that is pre-earmarked to buying American
weapons. It's really just a grant to the American weapons
industry. Those dirty Jews don't get the cash to spend on
just any old thing.
\_ what does that have to do with anything? it's still giving
them my money. does this somehow make it okay, or good for
taxpayers? if it's so good we should have the government
buy tons of computers and cars and other shit and give that
away too.
\_ Medicare and Welfare and the EPA are giving my money
away to worthless causes. At least if my money is used
to purchase weapons that are used by the people of
Israel defend thier homes and thier freedoms, my money
is put to better use than wasting it on some lowlifes
who can't get off thier asses to find work or for some
tree huggers who just want to stand in the way of modern
civilization and progress.
\_ what does this have to do with anything? all this
is irrelevant to the fact that tax dollars are going
to israel, and i've never seen anyone that wants this,
except the israelis.
\_ *I* want this. Now you can't honestly say you don't
know of American citizens who want their tax money
to go to support Israel. You'd rather it go to what?
If they're going to tax the shit out of me, better it
goes to Israeli weapons than some welfare whores.
\_ are you jewish? if so, i rest my case. otherwise,
why do you consider this an either/or case? both
are happening. why do you keep bringing up welfare?
\_ You rest your case? Based on what? I'm an
American and I pay a shitload of taxes to the
state and federal government all year long. I'm
also a registered voter and I actually vote.
Can you provide a URL for where it says tax
paying, voting American born citizens have no
say in how their money gets spent? And welfare
has a lot to do with it. I'll say it again for
you. This is _my_ money they're taking in
taxes. If I must pay taxes I want the money to
go to things I support, like Israel and not
things I don't such as welfare whores. What is
so hard to understand about that?
\_ right. do you understand that disabled people
wasn't going to the defense of Isreal, it would
are on medicare/welfare? not everyone is
able to support themselves. i suppose you
would just have them killed? or leave them
to their poverty. furthermore, welfare
choices are issues that come up in elections;
sending money to israel doesn't. it is not
the duty of the united states to send money
to foreign nations to support "causes."
the world runs on self-interest. the money
is sent because of self-interest groups
with undue influence.
\_ The number of people on welfare who
can't take care of themselves is miniscule.
Most of the people on the dole are
just to lazy to get a job.
\_ Wen Ho Lee is hardly innocent. He has pled guilt to most
In the case of Israel, if we don't
support them, they will not survive.
And the "holy land" will not be free.
I'm not jewish, christian or muslim,
but the though of Jerusalem in Muslim
hands is frightening.
\_ god you are an idiot. on what do you
base this "miniscule" claim?? anyway
the job of the *US* government is to
do things that help the *US* people,
not the israeli people, you fuckwit.
besides which, israel is and has been
for decades overwhelmingly capable of
defending itself. if you want to
support them further you can send
your own money there, but you can't
pretend that most americans would do
so. there are many causes right here
in the usa that money could be spent
on.
\_ welfare is not help, esp. when
most of the people who are on
welfare are using my money to
buy drugs and avoid work. Ideally
the government wouldn't waste
commies traitors out to ruin this country. They
any money and I wouldn't be
overtaxed, but in reality that
won't happen because of the
greedy liberals in Washington
who think that its their $s
instead of mine. Since money
will be wasted anyway, better
that it gets put to good use
defending Israel rather than
to bad use by some crack whore
in the bronx.
in case you forgot the point _/
of this, it isn't whether israel
is a "good cause", it's whether US
representatives should be doing things
\_ Did you read the link to the Dir. Freeh's
statement? He states that the charges were
dropped because proving would compromise
national security.
that *most* americans do not want,
for their own personal gain. and you
can't elect/not elect based on these
issues because they are buried under
more important ones. this is called
corruption. your "it's good because
at least it's not welfare" is totally
ridiculous. the same goes for our
trade policies.
\_ Prove to me that *most* americans
don't want to support Israel or
that such support is given by
elected representatives for personal
gain.
\_ it's not a matter of "support" it's
a matter of doling out money. we
"support" taiwan but we don't actually
buy their arms with tax dollars. us
policies in the middle east have a lot
to do with arabs hating the usa, they
didn't just wake up one morning and
decide "usa sux". but that's ok,
cuz they're muslims, and it's ok to
be anti-muslim.
\_ Why do you keep saying "most" Americans
agree with you? URL, please? Here, how
about I say something equally unfounded:
"Most Americans want tax money spent on
Israel". There. Now we've both said
something unfounded, unproven and unknown.
We're now equally stupid and ridiculous.
And I think *you* forgot the point of this.
This thread was started as a "boycott
Chinese goods" thread, not the antisemitic
thread you turned it into.
\_ oh that's classic. i was just waiting
for the "antisemitic" thing to come up.
the typical shield. you don't want to
give your money to israel?? you racist
bastard! you don't want to be RACIST,
do you? that's right, cough it up.
fucking dumbshit. and i brought up
israel as an example of a special
interest cause, because our stupid
trade policies wrt china are also
governed by special interest groups.
\_ Lets all just agree to disagree.
\_ You still fail to provide any proof
of your assertion that "most Americans"
oppose helping Israel and hide behind
one minor comment. Israel isn't a
random special interest cause. It is
the only democracy and friendly
nation in a very unfriendly area of
the world to the US. It behooves
this country to help that country.
Where's that link about "most
Americans"? Ho hum... oh? There
isn't one? You were just debating
out your ass? What a surprise! I
called you anti-semitic because you
instantly dismissed any defense of
Israel thinking I might be Jewish.
You're an anti-semite. That's ok.
You're not a alone. A lot of people
are. Now where's that link about
"most Americans" agreeing with you
on the subject of helping Israel?
\_ i'm not going to argue about
the real point when you bring
the anti-semite bullshit into
this. what possible basis do
you have for calling me this?
all i did was dismiss support
for this policy by jews, since
by definition their religion
obligates them to consider
israel the holy land etc. which
is just reality. the religion
says they're the chosen people.
obviously they're going to be
biased. if you can't understand
this you're a waste of time.
\_ You're guilty as charged and
still unable to provide a link
saying *any* Americans agree
with your views, much less
"most" Americans. You put up
a good fight for someone with
such obvious biases and near
zero debate skills, but it's
over. You got no links, you
got no argument, you got nada.
Insert coin to continue? Y/n
if debate skills consist of twisting _/
\_ Maybe so for long dead people, but
poor villagers in India almost always
have better teeth than city slickers.
Their teeth may be colored, but its
never rotten, and that largely due to
thier diet.
a discussion into "you're racist" and
"i'm right and you're wrong" then yes
you have commendable debate skills.
\_ You both are complete morons. Stop
extending this damn motd to a 50 page
book.
\_ I'm not jewish. It is either/or. If my money
wasn't going to the defense of Israel, it would
be getting wasted on dipshit treehuggers, and
welfare crack whores. If my $s have to get
spent, better it is on the defense of the
Jewish homeland.
\_ Tax $s get misspent all the time. At least with
Israel its going to a good cause.
\_ what is good about that cause?
\_ The struggle for the freedom and the right
of the Jewish people to live. The defense
of the rights and freedoms of people is
by definition a good cause.
\_ Uhm, whatever. Avoiding Chinese goods won't make a big difference.
Kicking all their students and spies out might.
\_ Yeah. We, like, need to build Chinese internet camps like we
did for Japanese Americans in WWII because you know how all of
them were spies.
\_ Yeah, like we need more straw men like this. Nice try.
\_ Chinese internet camps would be cool. t3 lines to every
computer and only chinese are alowed to use it.
\_ the US would be taken over rapidly.. he means internment?
\_ I think he does but he's too busy trolling to check
his spelling and word choices.
\_ 1824, Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The closer contemplation we condescend to
bestow, the more disgustful is that booby nation I
have no gift to see a meaning in the venerable
vegetation of this extraordinary people. They are
tools for other nations to use. Even miserable
Africa can say I have hewn the wood and drawn
the water to promote the civilization of other lands.
But China, reverend dullness, hoary idiot! All she
can say at the convocation of nations must be --- I
made the tea."
1881, Republican Senator,John Miller of California:
"The Chinese are inhabitants of another planet.
Machine like. They are automatic engines of flesh
and blood. Why not discriminate? Why aid in the
increase and distribution over our domain of a
degraded and inferior race, and the progenitors of
an inferior sort of men. We ask you to secure us
American anglo-saxon civilization without
contamination or adulteration. Let us keep pure the
blood which circulates through our political
system. And preserve our life from the gangrene of
oriental civilization."
1999, Representitive of California, Christopher Cox:
"essentially ALL Chinese visitors to the U.S. are
potential spies. Futhermore, all Chinese Americans
are potential "sleeper agents," who can be used at
any time but may not be activated for a decade or
more."
When we fought a civil war to abolished Slavery, we put
Chinese labors in pig pens and import to Cuba (the term we
used them was "coolies").
When we talk about innocent until proven guilty, Wen Ho Lee
was in solitary confinement 23 hours a day, shackled from
waist down for MONTHS without possiblity of bail. Though
we can't prove it, but his name is indeed too Chinese
sounding to be innocent.
\_ Wen Ho Lee is hardly innocent. He has pled guilty to most
of the charges filed against him and there was no question
as to his guilt in those charges. Only one or two of the
most serious charges have been dropped. There is still
no doubt in the minds of most *rational* americans that
Dr. Lee's action were not in the best interest of this
nation, its secuity and its people.
\_ what the fuck are you smoking? MOST of all his charges were
dropped except for a few (like a couple i believe). Why
don't you track down the Time articles are these before you
spill.
\_ Cough... Time articles? I bet you love those
little colored pie charts in USA Today, right?
Lee was guilty.
\_ At long last, sir, have you no shame? Have you no
sense of decency, sir?
\_ Still doesn't mean they weren't a bunch of fucking
commie traitors out to ruin this country. They
still are.
\_ Okay, 58 of the 59 counts were dropped, but not
because Dr. Lee was innocent, its because proving
in court that he was guilty would have ment that the
FBI (under the espionage act) would have had to
reveal too much information about national security
procedures and the information that was stolen.
Here's a URL even:
http://www.salon.com/news/col/horo/2000/10/03/lee
\_ That's the same David Horowitz that tjb quotes.
What are you, 64, white, and living in Alabama?
Be ashamed of yourself and stop polluting the motd
with random URLs pretending to know something.
\_ quoting horowitz is not going to win you
points around here
\_ God damn it! Stop bringing facts into this! I really
hate when you shut down someone's little rant on their
personal agenda with facts.
\_ Facts? What facts? The http://salon.com article just
mentioned a bunch of hearsays and conjectures
of what might have happened.
\_ Try again. I know it's hard.
\_ Whatever. You just need a good beating.
Because someone said something doesn't
make it a fact. The URL points out a lot
of facts but none of the facts prove
Dr. Lee was a spy. "Fact: The sky is
blue today. Conclusion: Jon Doe was the
killer." is a pathetic argument. The
same goes for "Fact: Freeh said that
that proving Dr. Lee guilty would have
resulted in a breach in national security.
conclusion: Dr. Lee is a Chinese spy." is
also an equally pathetic argument.
\_ If proving Dr. Lee guilty (which he
obviously ws) would further compromise
national security, the FBI has to
cut its losses. What part of that
do you not understand?
\_ [ followup about just needing to
prove mishandling of secrets
deleted (censored?) ]
\_ Actually, you have to produce
the files that were mishandled
or at least details about thier
contents under the espionage act.
This is a big problem in certain
cases, esp. in nuclear weapons
technology (which Lee was involved
in *mishandling*).
\_ What's special with that? OJ was innocent too. Don't
blame the races. Blame the American justice system
instead.
\_ Wow... this is such a well done troll. Blunt yet
has a subtle hint of "I *must* respond to this
fool!". Bravo! Well done.
\_ I'm not blaming chinese people. I'm just
saying that Dr. Lee was guilty.
\_ Lee was not *targeted* because he was chinese
he was arrested because he *BROKE THE LAW*. Maybe
your little criminal mind can't understand
that or maybe you don't care about national
security or maybe you don't love this nation
and its freedoms, but some of us do. And people
who compromise the security of this nation
have no right to live.
\_ Dr. Lee *WAS CHINESE*? I could have sworn
he came from a little island that is considered
a U.S. ally and very anti-China. In this
country, we don't need facts to prove that
someone *BROKE THE LAW*. Conjectures and
hearsays are good enough.
\_ He's still guilty of 1 charge which
carries a 25 yr sentence. I'm guessing
that means he *BROKE THE LAW*.
\_ I agree, and that's why I said blame the justice
system for not being able to nail down these
bastards.
\_ The bane of the innocent until proven
guilty system is that guilty men walk
free. It is the price of assuring that
innocent men are not incorrectly locked
up. All in all its a better system than
say GB's where it guilty until proven
innocent and the burden of proof is on
the defendent not the prosecution.
\_ Great Britain? No, there it's also
innocent until proven guilty and guilty
men often walk free. Same problem.
\_ I just checked my facts, you are
right its innocent until proven
guilty, apparently this was changed
in the late 70s because of several
judicial mistakes:
http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/law/uk00000_.html
\_ But you still don't have nearly as
many rights in GB as you do here if
you're a defendant.
\_ Agreed, GB defense law sucks.
Selective enforcement of the law based upon race, ethnicity
and national orgin is the fundamental building block of
our great nation. Without it, there will be no land which
we can establsih our nation; without it, there will be no
slaves which fuel our economy.
\_ I'm a victim, I'm oppressed. Cry me a storm wussy boy.
You can't be oppressed or victimized unless you let it
happen.
Anti-Chinese is as American as apple pie. So, live with it!
\_ Hi Paolo!
\_ Was this supposed to be shocking or something? And oh yes, I
would like some more tea. Go be a good boy and refill my cup.
\_ Soli sah thea i no mo tea, injuans dump i in bosto harbo.
Perhap you like drink coffee?
\_ Get the whips.
\_ I'm pro-Chinese, as long as they're cute girls! --aaron
\_ Chinese chix are ugly and have bad teeth.
\_ Making fun of poverty, how crass.
\_ poor != bad teeth
\_ poor => bad teeth. Condition of teeth is one of
the ways Archaelogists used to determine the class/
social status/material well being from the remains
of a person.
\_ White racist oppressor arhcaeologists. The
ultimate in racism: racism covered by the veneer
of science. Oppressing people who aren't even
here to defend themselves. How cowardly.
\_ This is not strictly true. In India for
example, poor villagers often have much
better (ie not rotten) teeth than city
slickers. Its mostly due to a better
diet.
\_ Same in China.
\_ so do some Japanese chix. Dentistry in the far east sucks.
lots less drugs
\_ Japanese chix raised in the US are still much
more attractive than chinese chix raised in the
US.
Japanese chix is where its at.
\_ List of some spies. Don't make me dig out my list of 250
since WWII:
Harold Nicholson
Aldrich Ames
David Sheldon Boone
Mariano Faget
George Trofimoff
Alejandro Alonso
Earl Pitts
Richard W. Miller
Robert Philip Hanssen
John A. Walker Jr.
George Bush
Felix S. Bloch
Ronald Pelton
George Blake
Edward Lee Howard
\_ xenophobia is bane of society
\_ buying goods from the enemy is the bane of society
\_ xenophobia keeps a society from being some random mishmash of
crap like this country is becoming.
\_ and i supposed your ancestors were native americans who
didn't emigrate here like everyone else? that's about
as logical as saying america's strength is derived from
being one homogenous population. |
| 2001/4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:21035 Activity:nil |
4/19 Jew spreads her racist drivel about SATs at Cal.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/jennings.html |
| 2000/10/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:19521 Activity:very high |
10/18 http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/20001011_xcbtl_myths_brmi.shtml \_ i find it hard to sympathize with people who use uzis and gunships against people with rocks. \_ Don't you mean rocks _and guns_? Or maybe you haven't been watching the same news footage that I have. \_ I wish Palestinians just had twice the military force and experience that Israelis have. \_ Ignorant, knee-jerk, and cowardly. -John \_ So they could genocide a few million jews? Or you think the PLO, Hamas, and others would run a truly multi ethnic democracy based on the principles of freedom we enjoy in this and a few other western countries? \_ There can be no peace whilst those arab muslims live. To believe that the Jews are at fault is the most foolish notion that can be entertained. If the Arabs win and Israel is eliminated (which is thier desire, don't kid yourself) it will be the greatest failure of this nation in its efforts to promote freedom and democracy. After Israel comes the flood. \_ Not sure if you are serious, or trolling, but who is the agressor in most of the clashes? The Palestinians. They force Israeli police/army to defend themselves. Has ANY Palestinian leader (Arafat) come out and say stop inciting violence? Or protest in a peaceful way? What's up with the \_ Arrafat is an ass, israel offers 40% of its territory and he still stone throwing? \_ There can be no peace while people who say the other side should be exterminated, like this Zionist young fanatic above, are allowed to live! \_ Arafat is an ass, israel offers 40% of its territory and he still doesn't budge an inch. 3 prime ministers dealt w/ arrafat but arrafat just wants all of israel. palestinians just want to destroy israel. \_ Do you believe these lies you spread? |
| 2000/10/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:19518 Activity:very high |
10/18 I found the correlation between Middle East fighting and the motd:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/14080.html
(Summary: P4's are made in Israel, which might be bad news for Intel)
\_ I've made the connection now. AMD is paying the Muslims to bomb
the jews so that the Atlon will take over the x86 compatible
market.
\_ There is nothing illegal with this.
\_ Yeah, and Al Capone was just a "business man".
\_ I'm just saying, the US has no jurisdiction in
parts of the Middle East.
\_ if amd is a us company, the us has laws that say
things like "You aren't allowed to break us laws
in other countries either"
\_ so much for my drug smuggling startup.
\_ But a non-US company can break US laws in other
countries, right? If a US citizen is murdered in
another country by that country's citizen, US
has no jurisdiction over that. Whoever bombed the
ship are supposedly non-US citizens and the bombing
happened in another country, so I think US should
have no jurisdiction over that either.
\_ Just buy Checkpoint stocks. Let God's chosen people earn money
for you. |
| 2000/10/5-6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:19422 Activity:high |
10/5 Taking Ethnic Studies and compiling a list of racial adage
(e.g. Drunken Irish, Stingy Jew, Inscrutable Asian, etc). Thanks.
\_ That's Lying, Backstabbing Jew to you, Mister.
\_ How about Riceboy, Chinaman, Japs and nigger? -- Asian
\_ unclear on the concept aren't you?
\_ No. Please explain.
\_ he is looking for 1 or two word racial sterotypes,
not racist names for different ethnicities.
\_ Stingy scot, angry German, fat ugly rude stupid whiny nasal-
voiced chubby-kneed-women polo-shirt-wearing tourist American,
DAMN MONKEY NIP, heterosexual San Franciscan, polite New
Yorker, greasy wop. -John
\_ Lazy mexican.
\_ Kiasu Singaporean. |
| 2000/8/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:18924 Activity:high |
8/8 What's the rule in pronuciating Jewish names? For example, is
Epstein pronouced as ep-stine or ep-steen? Is Feldsenstein
pronouced as feldsen-stine or feldsen-steen?
\_ MY NAME IS FRANKENSTEEN!
\_ In original Yiddish, it's pronounced like English -stine or -shtine
(the choice between the two depending on dialect/preference);
however, many Americans with these names have long since forgotten
what Yiddish is, and some will pronounce it as -steen as well.
So use the former by default, unless you've heard the
person in question pronounce it himself. AFAIK, the same goes
for German surnames with the same suffix. -alexf
\_ thats because "yiddish" basically IS german. aka
"Hebrew with a german accent"
\_ there are jews all over the world, speaking probably over 100
languages, including chinese. to attempt to find consistency accross
aall these languages' names is impossible.
\_ there are jews all over the world but they are mostly two kinds
left these days, and of those two the eastern european jew is
the most prominent, especially in America. Stop being such an
ass. -jewboy
\_ Racist. That's not funny.
\_ http://www.icebox.com
\_ SCHNELL! JUDEN!
\_ Yay! Holocaust jokes! Fucking idiot. |
| 2000/2/14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:17506 Activity:very high |
02/13 Rest in peace, Charles Schultz, you dull repetitive do nothing
lazy sloppy overpaid comic hack. We love you! You changed our
lives! Boo hoo! sniff! snuffle! Snoopy is dead!
\_ SCHULZ, dammit. Charles *Schulz*.
\_ I know the name of my God! Fuck youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!! And
he wasn't some damned Jew with a damned Jew name!
\_ Sorry, I forgot -- this is the motd. We should all be creaming our
jeans over a groundbreaking hilarious real-man's comic, like "User
Friendly"! (Think of the newly created blank space in comics pages
all over America! Maybe they'll drop "Classic Peanuts" and pick up
"User Friendly"! That would be S0 K-RAD, D00D!!!1!!! We can show
the heathens what idiots they are and get our S3KR1T 3L33T LAFFS,
2!!!1!!)
\_ User Friendly is one of the few comics worse than Peanuts.
\_ You haven't read After Y2K, have you.
\_ "one of".
\_ Why waste your venom on Schulz when there are *so* many other waste-
of-space comics in the newspaper, like "Spiderman"? (Or "Garfield",
or "Mary Worth", or "B.C.", or "Crock", or "The Lockhorns", or
"Funky Winkerbean", or (dare I say the name) "Love Is ..."?) There
may have been a slump in "Peanuts" during the 90s (and even then,
I'd say that the comic came back over the past few years), but on
the whole, the man did an exceptionally good job at doing what he
did for almost *fifty* years.
\_ The last 35 were tree killing pap.
\_ Mary Worth is great. And how did you miss the worst comic ever,
"Cathy".
\_ why bother reading that crap, when soda has christine. |
| 1999/10/25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:16764 Activity:nil |
10/24 Help. I don't like my FOBONIC mother in law and she doesn't seem
to like Jewish husband. Advice please. |
| 1998/1/22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:13543 Activity:high |
1/21 US sponsors genocide of Cuba!
\_ Sad but true. What had Cuba done to warrant an embargo even
worse than one given to Iraq? So it has a communist regime,
is that a crime? What is this BS from US government that
the embargo is meant to promote freedom of speech and crap
like that? What about freedom to live?
\_ the embargo is the legacy of influential lobbyists
funded by people who lost property when castro
made cuba a communist state and they are not going
to go away anytime soon, they are patient and
are just waiting for castro to pass on.
\_ AMERICA. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT, BUDDY. - danh
\_ I think the embargo of Cuba is stupid and does no
good, but the US is the only major nation that enforces
the sanctions. They can get whatever they want from Canada,
France or any of the other 200 countries that do not
have restrictions on trade with Cuba. Any genocide
is a result of Castro and the Communist government,
not of the US embargo. this is unlike the sanctions
against Iraq, which were supported by the West for a long
time. This is no excuse for hussein's atrocities, but let's
keep the facts straight. If you think the problems of the
Cuban people are to be blamed on the US embargo, then
you have a serious misunderstanding of politics and economics.
-fab@csua
\_ Wrong. USA punishes domestic and foreign companies that
trade with Cuba.
\_ this is only partially true. As far as I understand it,
the helms-Burton act has only been enforced against a
a small number of firms. While a lot of people are pissed,
and justifiably so -H-B act is pretty silly, it has
made no impact on the trade between cuba and foreign
nations. the H-B act is an empty threat in the overwhelming
number of cases. Ie, Jesse Helms is just one guy.
One cranky Southern guy can't stop world trade.
Finally, the US cannot punish firsm which do no business
in Cuba. Another good example of what i am talking about is
Jordan and Israel. Israel refuses to trade with Jordan,
until recently. But trade still happens. All the goods
are routed to Cyprus, a neutral country. as I understand it,
that is how a lot of US/Cuba trade actually happens.
Any foreign firm with US ties could set up dummy companies
with no US ties, which is what happens. Of course, since
cuba with its present economic system, produces little wealth,
its probably not to profitable to try to often. The fact
remains: any country that wanted to trade with Cuba, can.
Cuba's poverty is not primarily the fault of the US embargo.
I recommend removing the embargo so that fact will be
totally clear. - fab@csua |
| 11/23 |