Politics Foreign Europe - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/08/07 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2010/5/11-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53827 Activity:nil
5/11    "UN fears 'irreversible' damage to natural environment" - Yahoo! News:
        "The report argued that biodiversity was a core concern for society
        that would help tackle poverty and improve health, meriting as much
        attention as the economic crisis for only a fraction of the cost of
        recent financial bailouts."
        \_ Green guilt is the new white guilt.
2010/5/8-26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53823 Activity:nil
5/8     What was up with Greece of all things affecting the market?
        \_ I'm not sure why, but I guess a Greek collapse could screw
           up the Euro as a currency.
2010/4/25-5/10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53801 Activity:low
4/25    "Aliens may exist but contact would hurt humans"
        http://www.csua.org/u/qmq (news.yahoo.com)
        Normally I'd just shrug it off when I hear comments like this, but
        this time the one who said it was Stephen Hawking.
         \_ Why? what aspect of Hawking's intelligence makes him any more
            compelling than the 1000s of others who have pointed out this
         \_ Only Arizona will be safe.
        "White man may exist to the east but may hurt our tribe, pocahontas."
        \_ A follow-up article: http://www.csua.org/u/qo0
           '"Anything that we have here, they could find where they live,"
           Shostak said. If there was a resource found on Earth that did not
           exist on the aliens' home planet, there would certainly be easier
           ways to get or make the resource than coming here.'
           I wonder if the Native Americans had similar reasoning before
           Columbus arrived.
           \_ It's not about the resource, but the cost of obtaining a
              resource.  There was silver and gold in europe but there was
              a way cheaper way to get it from the new world.  I think the
              same happens today with food, it's cheaper to import than
              grow your own.  Same with labor (cheaper to buy chinese than
              local).  Alien physiology is unknowable, but the steady law
              of supply/demand is a constant in the universe.
              \_ Unless they have replicators.
                 \_ I'll posit that once a civilization has those deus ex
                    machines to make anything from nothing, it won't bother
                    to explore much, or care much, about anything anymore.
2010/4/7-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53774 Activity:nil
4/7     Mystery French hero who saved someone's daughter from a chilly
        NY river has been found: http://www.csua.org/u/qhn
2022/08/07 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2010/1/11-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53622 Activity:nil
1/11    Social democracy and economic growth are not incompatible:
        \_ SOCIALISM ( yes i did read it )
           \_ Krugman == socialist?
              \_ Obama = Socialist
2009/12/7-2010/1/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Health/Women] UID:53577 Activity:low
12/5    Miss France is very good looking:
        \_ she has a hook nose and face is a bit too V shaped.  Body is ok.
           I mean lets look at the sample pool of 20 something EU:
        \_ French women in general are good looking, so Miss France is probably
           always very good looking. Can you find pics of previous years
           \_ American women are prettier. They actually come in
              all sizes and all colors. French women? Blah. It's like
              eating the world's best crepe every single day. Even
              the best will taste bland after you get used to them.
              Variety is the spice of life.
           \_ I noticed a lot more blonde women in France than I expected
              to see and, yes, many are very attractive. My aunt moved
              \_ it's the organic food, I tell ya.
              to France and her daughters (my cousins) are all half-French
              and I think that they were very pretty when they were young.
              (They are pushing 50 now.) However, Miss France, although
              extremely attractive, doesn't have much in the way of T&A. Of
              the bunch of girls in the swimsuits she has probably the
              best body for modeling, but not really the most sexy body.
              \_ I agree, JACKIE JOHNSON is waaaay prettier! I like
                 Jackie's more robust body. NICE.
                 \_ Lisa Guerrero > Jackie Johnson.
              She might have the least curves of any of the women. I find
              that she's too skinny and unathletic. Do you like girls
              with flat butts? BTW, I think all those girls are French,
              right? "Miss France" was Miss Normandy.
              \_ The norse woman has flat butts. Look at examples across
                 the channel as well.  Their fat accumulation occurs on the
           \_ stupid generalization. It's like saying all the Japanese
              women are petite with a nice clean face like all the jporns.
              \_ In general is not the same as all.
              \_ In general is not the same as all. If I was looking for
                 petite women, Japan would be a good place to look.
                 \_ my point is, in Japan, most women are NOT as petite
                    and good looking as JMedia make you think it is. In
                    fact, most are slightly overweight, have freaky
                    hair, beady little eyes, NOT petite, and frankly, ugly.
                    \_ You know petite has more to do with height than
                       weight, right?  I would say 95% of Japanese women are
                       \_ Wow you're an idiot.
                          Petite = (height < 5'4" && weight/height < constant)
                          \_ No.
                             My mom is petite and my girlfriend is petite.
                             When I shop with them (in the petites section)
                             there are certainly size 0 and size 2 clothes
                             but there is also size 16P. It's a function
                             of height and not weight at all.
                             "In fashion and clothing, petite sizes are
                             standard clothing sizes designed to fit women
                             of shorter height, typically 5'3" or less."
                    \_ More overweight than American women?
                       \_ there is no such a thing as an average American
                          woman. America is too diverse for any generalization
                          \_ yep, just watch the olympics if you have any
                             doubt.  Esp the volleyball teams.
                          \_ http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html
2009/11/9-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53515 Activity:nil
11/9    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/11/free-market-capitalism-gets-thumbs-down-in-27-countries-including-us.html
        Most people think Free Market is not fine the way it is
        and needs some adjustment/tuning.
        \_ Why don't you move to France, you Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey?
        \_ Tuning in their favor no doubt.
           \_ obviously. the emotion is not too different than that
              that which fueled the French revolution
              \_ I mean "tuned in their own favor" versus "for the common
                 good". I think the French Revolution was more of the latter.
                 \_ who determines that? the people who revolt or
                    the people who were revolted? Do you give each
                    individual an equal weight?
                    \_ The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
                       However, I think that these people who think the
                       free market needs tuning are mostly thinking about
                       themselves and not the common good.
                       \_ don't you think most people in this world (e.g.
                          most are 3rd world countries) think about
                          themselves much more than they think about
                          others? Have you been to China and Brazil?
                          \_ Yes, I do think so, which is why I think the
                             results of the poll are meaningless to use
                             as a guideline to set economic policy.
2009/10/7-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53434 Activity:nil
10/7    "Somali pirate error ends with 5 in French brig"
        Dumb privates.
2009/10/5-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53428 Activity:nil
10/5    "Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin"
2009/9/4-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53334 Activity:kinda low
9/4     RIP Idan...the best soul i have known.  And the best security
        researcher ever...He will be missed beyond words.  He died at
        a rave in italy 50m from his tent and was found blue and dead in the
        \_ is he gay?
           \_ fuck you he is Dionysus.
              \_ Ok, he likes wine, I get it. What else?
                 \_ He's dead MTF.  Weep for the dead.
                    \_ Well I hope he's in sodomy heaven.
                       \_ If so he is enjoying your dad and little brother
2009/8/26-9/9 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53303 Activity:nil
8/26    Micro$oft is racist!!!
        Seriously, is it any different from replacing the black actor with a
        white actor and then re-taking a real photo to suit a foreign market?
        Would it cause the same outcry if, say, M$ Photoshop'ed ... I mean
        photo-edited ... the Asian man and the white woman with two blacks for
        the South Africa market?
        \_ Yes, it's quite different from taking two different photos.
           Especially with that awful clone job in the background. -tom
        \_ I'm surprised they left the asian guy in there.  Many Poles
           who live in Poland are extremely racist.
           \_ Agreed. They should have Photoshopped in a pure white
              blonde hair blue eyed Ayran.
2009/7/21-24 [Academia, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53174 Activity:nil
7/21    wtf is http://berkley.edu? they have a http://csua.berkley.edu, xcf, etc
        note berk-ley no 'e'.
        Berkley Business College C/ Ingeniero Marquina, 3 Oviedo,
        AS 33004 SPAIN
        \_ yet another fuckng scam site, they have copied all http://berkeley.edu
           hostnames.and put sshd's on them
   \_ I don't think they 'copied all http://berkeley.edu hostnames' .  I think
      its a dns catchall A record.
   $ host http://paolosotttttttttto.berkley.edu
   http://paolosotttttttttto.berkley.edu has address
        \_ http://berkley.edu is not a scam site; it's a college in Spain.  I
           don't know where the name comes from.  Yes, they're using
           wildcard DNS.  -tom
           \_ Check yer hostkeys folks :D
2009/7/9-16 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53127 Activity:nil
7/9     The world's worst tourists:
        Surprise!  It's not us Americans.
2009/6/30-7/15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53099 Activity:nil
6/30    German John was talking about miniskirts in Europe. Well, I made it
        to Paris and Amsterdam in June and he wasn't kidding. I liked the
        tall blonde Dutch girls riding bikes in short skirts and boots.
        \_ Damn, now I want to go to Amsterdam. Again. Without my wife and
           two kids. Probably not going to happen this summer.
2009/5/27 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:53050 Activity:nil
5/27    Tell us again how that inflexible European model causes unemployment:
2009/5/11-18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52983 Activity:nil 80%like:52980
5/10    A Quite good article about the financial crisis:
2009/5/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52980 Activity:nil 80%like:52983
5/10    A Quite good article about the financial crises:
2009/5/1-6 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52931 Activity:nil
5/1     Europe Explained:
        \_ Can't read some of the smaller print.  What's it saying about
           Bosnia, Albania, etc?
           \_ http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3510/3192055736_5d3e9ca1f0_o.jpg
2009/4/20-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52874 Activity:nil
4/19    Germany boycotting UN anti-racism meeting:
        "In recent meetings, it (Germany) has expressed dismay about some
        governments' attempts to downplay the significance of the Holocaust."
        How dare you say my sin was nothing!?  I'm quitting!
        \_ Seriously? You're giving shit to a country that's trying to take
           responsibility for their past?
           \_ I was just joking.  Actually, I admire what they do, and I hope
              Japan does the same and face its past the same way.  -- OP
           \_ I was just joking.  Actually, I admire what Germany does, and I
              hope Japan can face its past the same way.  -- OP
              \_ So, not srsly. Cool.
        \_ At some point Israel just need to admit that Israel as a nation is
           no different than South Africa 15 years ago... Those who pretend
           that is not the case will do foolish things like what Germany is
        \_ NO FREE SPEECH FOR RACISTS! (Pretty funny that this remark keeps
           getting censored, it proves my point)
2009/3/29-4/2 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52765 Activity:low
3/29    Good news, Yoo to be investigated for violating International law:
        \- I'm actually happier to see Alberto, Feith, and Addington on
           the list ahead of Yoo.
2009/3/16-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52717 Activity:low 66%like:52718
3/16    Solidarity, comrade!
        \_ How do you know an article is bullshit designed to make people
           mad?  It's in the NYTimes style section!
           \_ Why do you call it bullshit? Don't you think this place
              actually exists and as described in the article?
              actually exists as described in the article?
2009/2/25-3/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:52634 Activity:nil
2/25    Whoops, looks like SFCron is on the rocks.
        \_ Not surprised. They don't even run a full page of comics.  Instead,
           they waste pages and pages on something called "news," which is
           almost always boring and depressing.
2009/2/21-25 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52618 Activity:nil
2/21    So, European AC is 220 (2 round prongs), and my American dryer takes
        220, right?  Now, I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea to plug a
        European appliance into my dryer's power outlet, but I'm not really
        sure why.  Is it just the 50hz vs 60hz problem?
        \_ I think it would work fine, actually.
        \_ most dryer sold in USA only takes 110V, and 220 outlet will
           destroy your dryer in matter of seconds.
                        - being there, done that.
2009/2/5-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:52523 Activity:nil
2/5     Funny, the country that started WW 1 and 2, and killed millions
        are viewed as the most favoriable.
        \_ They haven't killed as many Vietcongs, Korean commies, and
           Super EVIL Terrorists as America for the past 50 years.
           \_ Vietcong is already plural. You wouldn't say Chineses. --tt
              \_ Sure he would.
        \_ Funny that was 4 generations ago.
        \_ I'm not sure you can accurately say that Germany "started" WWI.
2009/2/2-3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Finance/Investment] UID:52496 Activity:low
2/2     http://tinyurl.com/buyetf (Jesse's cafe)
        Stock tip ... what is it, #6?  Start with paragraph 6.
        What the knowledgable and "insiders" are talking about.
        Note they may be wrong.  (fyi, some bozo probably set that tiny URL
        code earlier)
        \_ What a waste of time. Many paragraphs to say that they don't
           know anything and that the situation is fluid. Genius.
           \_ Sorry, there is no "buy at x" "sell at y" type advice, but isn't
              identifying what they don't know, and what they think will happen
              in/around 2010 helpful?
        \_ This is fearmongering at its worst.
2009/1/31-2/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52491 Activity:nil
1/31    French liburals riot against bailouts
2009/1/26-29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52458 Activity:nil
1/25    UK Treasury official says UK financial system was on brink of collapse,
        preparing to terminate all wire transfers, halt withdrawals
        \_ URL?
2009/1/13-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52368 Activity:kinda low
1/12    I'm thinking of going to the Caribbeans for honeymoon, then maybe
        Disneyworld. This is for mid-March. Any advice? I'd like to make
        it as simple as possible... the less work, the better.
        \_ Isn't Disneyworld for children?
           \_ Go to EPCOT where they have beer and hot foreign chicks.
              \_ I went to Disneyland with my wife twice (October and June).
                 Hot MILFs everywhere.  But if you go in cold months you
                 probably won't see their bodies under thick clothings.
                 Anyway OP is talking about honeymoon, so MILF or not is not
                 an issue.  Plus Disneyworld in another state may be different.
                 probably won't see their hot bodies under thick clothings.
                 Anyway OP is talking about honeymoon, so MILF-or-not is not
                 an issue.  Plus Disneyworld outside of SoCal may be different.
                 \_ I wasn't talking about MILFs, but the people working
                    there. They are young, attractive, from foreign countries,
                    and interested in seeing something other than boring
                    Orlando. This hot Moroccan girl started hitting on me when
                    she found out I was from California and told how she wanted
                    to visit, etc. If I had been single I would've offered to
                    host her and show her around. Same thing happened with this
                    Swedish girl who I actually did meet (she was headed here
                    anyway as it turned out) and show around. EPCOT is
                    like a big European hostel for bored, but adventurous
                    (or they wouldn't have signed up) youth with loose European
                    morals. That doesn't help OP, but does address the
                    "for children only" comment.
                    \_ Did you actually end up "showing her around"?
        \_ If you're interested in Disneyworld, this may not be your speed,
           but: http://www.slickrock.com  -tom
2009/1/8-12 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52344 Activity:low
1/8     Macy's closing 11 stores:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/9f6576 [newsday]
        \_ I wish I had saved this graph that compared retail space per
           capita between Britain, Sweden and the United States.  We had
           something like 20x-30x more retail space per capita which suggests
           there are a lot more store closings coming up.
           \_ Not necessarily. The US has a lot more land and our cities
              are spread far apart so there are a lot more locations per
              capita than in a more dense nation.
           \_ 20X? That seems unbelievable to me. -skeptic
           \_ Found the chart:


              US: 20.2 sf/person
              Sweden: 3.3 sf/person (Sweden has more land per person than the
              \_ Yes, but the population is not spread out much.
              UK: 2.5
              France: 2.3
              Italy: 1.1

              Note that according to http://tinyurl.com/6j2gtq US sf/person
              grew to 38 sf/person in 2005, but that same article claims
              European countries have 10 sf/person.  So the gap is anywhere
              from 4x to almost 20x depending on the source.

              from 4x to almost 20x depending on the source. -pp
              \_ Where's the source data?
               \_ From the looks of that graph it is somewhere on
2008/12/22-2009/1/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52294 Activity:nil
12/22   http://tinyurl.com/9o2ps8 (telegraph.co.uk)
        In the UK, repo-men to be authorized to:
        - Restrain residents while they remove goods which they have stopped
          making payments on
        - Break into a home while you are or are not there
        Still can't:
        - Remove money from your pockets
        - Remove jewelry/valuables you are wearing
        w00t for U.S. 2nd amendment?
        w00t for financial responsibility?
        \_ What if some woman misses several monthly payments for the 32DD bra
           she's wearing?  It's not jewelry, so ......
2008/12/5-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52179 Activity:nil
12/5    German prisoner escapes in a cardboard box:
        \_ Snake?  Snake!  SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!
        \_ YOU are number 6.
2008/12/2-7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52150 Activity:low 85%like:52148
12/2    for sodan parents:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cxtgm [telegraph.co.uk]
        \_ OH yes I believe this. American parents are TOO laxed and spoil
           their children. This is reflected with the fact that American
           people are loud and self absorbed and it's always about
           ME ME ME have it my way or no way. Lame. French >>> Americans.
           \_ Can't agree more.  --- parent of 4-yr-old and 2-yr-old
        \_ Why would I want my children to grow up and be Cheese Eating
           Surrender Monkeys?
           \_ For one, you'll have a more enjoyable parenthood for the first
              20 or so years of their lives.
              \_ and be bitterly wondering in a super cheap retirement home
                 why your kid is such a rank and file lower middleclass java
                 monkey too quiet to be noticed and too scared to speak up to
                 make it into mgmt.
2008/12/2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:52148 Activity:nil 85%like:52150
12/2    for sodan parents:
        \_ OH yes I believe this. American parents are TOO laxed and spoil
           their children. This is reflected with the fact that American
           people are loud and self absorbed and it's always about
           ME ME ME have it my way or no way. Lame. French >>> Americans.
2008/11/18-20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Sports] UID:52034 Activity:nil
11/18   "Italian soccer strategy gets a racy look"
        Can't wait until the Italian women's soccer team adopts this new
2008/11/13-26 [Reference/Law/Court, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:51961 Activity:nil
11/13   EU's Court of First Instance rules that Lego bricks are not trademark-
        Opinion available at: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6s77ap [europa.eu]
        \_ SOCIALISM.  oh wait its Europe
2008/10/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:51753 Activity:nil
10/30   Ever wonder why Ghadafi was sleeping in a tent behind his mansion
        instead of in it, that day we bombed it? Turns out our "allies"
        tipped him off:
        \_ Why didn't he just leave the site altogether?
           \-Muammar has left the building.
2008/10/27-29 [Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:51692 Activity:kinda low
10/27   Sales of new homes up 2.7%. Really disappointed. I really wanted
        a doomsday scenario. Still pissed about how home prices rose 50%
        in less than 4 years. Life is so fucking unfair. I want
        SOCIALISM NOW!!! Fuck Capitalism.
        \_ What do you think got us here?
           \_ France? Socialism?
           \_ Poorly regulated markets and an easy money policy promulgated
              by an Ayn Rand flunky. What do you think got us here?
        \_ They need a 1-year chart of this overlaying 2006 to 2008.
           The "no jumbo" crash happened September 2007 I think.
           The "no jumbo" crash happened September 2007 I think, which would
           make 2007/2008 Sep yoy easily positive.
           make 2007/2008 Sep yoy easily positive, which is what happened with
           the existing home sales numbers.
2008/10/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:51425 Activity:nil 57%like:51426
10/8    Nikkei 225 getting fucked up the ass
        UK getting super fucked - oh wait, UK equity indices haven't yet caught
        up with this fact.  Don't worry.  They will.
        \_ Japanese schoolgirl anal.... sorry, what did you say again?
2008/10/6 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:51398 Activity:high
10/6    This golfer's gotta be putting on a show to promote himself among the
        rich and gaymous.
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/3jzrtp (Yahoo News photo)
        \_ Wow aren't you clever.
        \_ Wow aren't you clever.  Dude is a professional athlete with
           good looks so in your jealousy you decide he is some effeminate
           freak and not a "real man" so you can feel better about your lazy
           slovenly life.  Your homophobia is as ugly as your jealousy.
2008/10/2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:51356 Activity:high
10/2    Bank runs in Greece!
        \_ URL?
           \_ google above.  may be just electronic, since there are no photos
              \_ The top hits are "ronpaulforums" and "usagold". Sorry, this
                 does not qualify as anything but a rumor at this point.
                 \_ try clicking the "News" link padawan
                    fyi, there were also silent bank runs on WB after WM went
                    TU, which led to WB's forced merger by FDIC
                    \_ None of the "news" links mention a bank run of any kind,
                       they all just say that Greece has guaranteed all
                       deposits. What is a "silent bank run"?
                       \_ no lines, yet significant net withdrawals
                          "after panic withdrawals by customers in Athens and
                          Thessaloniki, creating an unstoppable stampede across
                          Europe" - telegraph.co.uk
                          \_ And you believe that sensationalistic drivel?
                             Are they predicting a European wide bank run or
                             reporting on it? What is a "panic withdrawal"?
                             Are their lines outside the banks? Did any
                             banks fail? It just sounds like a slow news
                             day to me.
                             \_ yes, you are right.  i will slink home and
                                kill myself.  i am stupid.
2008/9/19-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Finance/Investment] UID:51240 Activity:nil
9/19    bumped for discussion:
        \_ My financial advisor says to not try and time the market.
           \_ what else did your financial advisor say?  did you ask them about
              getting more of your portfolio into safer, lower yielding assets?
              \_ No, actually he told me that the latest recommendations for
                 someone my age was to be 50% in overseas stocks. He also seems
                 to think that I have a bit too much in dividend paying blue
                 chips and that I should buy more small caps, but he hasn't
                 said anything like that in a few months. He also said that
                 there was no reason to be concerned about Pimco Total Return
                 anymore, since the Fed guaranteed all the FNM debt.
                 \_ re PIMCO Total Return:
                    - ask him why funds seem to be selling agency paper this
                      week if there is no risk
                    - ask him what about the MBSs inside
                    re overseas:
                    - what is the breakdown by country/region?
                      \_ Can regular individual give PIMCO money to manage
                         or is it just for the super-rich and institutions?
                         \_ Anyone can buy Pimco Total Return, it is the
                            largest fund overall, in terms of assets. Ticker
                            is PTRAX.
                     \_ Get him as your advisor yourself and ask him all these
                        questions if you are so curious. Who told you that
                        funds are selling all this agency paper? I just looked
                        and it looks like PTRAX is 80% in cash right now
                        anyway. I will eventually ask him the country by
                        country breakdown, probably by email next week. If
                        you are curious, I can post it to the motd.
2008/9/14-19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:51167 Activity:low
9/14    Good-bye, Britain:
        ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts
        given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.
        \_ Just like how the Jewish courts run there too?  At least they
           stooped so low as to have non-judges presid and make judgements for
           kangaroo courts broadcast on television like here.
           \_ Ummm... TV courts aren't leagally binding beyond the contract
              you sign when you go on.  That's a huge difference. -!pp
              \_ "Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as
                 arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals
                 are binding in law, provided that both parties in the dispute
                 agree to give it the power to rule on their case."
                 It's the same thing.  Civil case.  "Law" means under contract
                 law.  You go to agree to arbitraion and you agree to the
                 results, you are now under contract.  This is nothing
                 but fear mongering and racism.
                 \_ yea, what he said. -ppp
           \_ Sharia tends to be a bit more murdery and misogynist, don't you
2008/8/20-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50917 Activity:nil
8/20    Germany wins a bunch of equestrian medals. Are Germans richer
        than Americans? Expensive sports man.
        \_ Germany has three luxury automotive brands.  US has zero.
        \_ الله أَكْ!
           \_ Cadillac qualifies. Possibly so does Lincoln. However,
              Germany has 4: BMW, MB, Audi, Porsche. Ford owns Volvo and
              GM owns Saab. I don't know how you count those.
              \_ Oh, I forgot about Audi.  I personally still think of Volvo
                 and Saab as Swedish brands.  -- PP
2008/8/11-18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50843 Activity:kinda low
8/11    Anyone have thoughts about what the US should do about Georgia?
        \_ Annex it as Georgia II.
        \_ Not much I'm afraid.  Especially since Georgia seems to have
           started it.  Russia was fomenting the battle, but when Russia
           is itching to attack you, don't give it an excuse!
           \_ Russia moved troops into Georgia, not the other way around.
              Doesn't seem fair to say Georgia started it.
              \_ You're right, that's quite right. But Georgia attacked
                 seperatists Russia was more or less explicity supporting,
                 and Russia has been itching to attack, because they want to
                 show off how "strong" they are.  Georgia didn't exactly start
                 it, but they did walk into a pretty well marked trap.
                 \_ Agreed.  Don't walk into that trap until after you actually
                    join NATO.  -- !OP
                    \_ I'm not sure I'd support them then, unless they cleared
                       it with NATO first.  This is pretty similar to the sort
                       of BS that started WWI. -pp
                 \_ So because they didn't let Russia simply annex South
                    Ossetia, it's their fault?
                    \_ I don't know enough about the situation to say.  I've
                       heard a number of contradictory claims.  But better to
                       lose one province than a whole country. -pp
                       PS: I'm not sure fault is interesting in this case,
                       since the question isn't really moral.  We know the
                       Russians are currently in imperialist dictatorship mode.
                       Certainly attacking is the Russians 'fault'.  But does
                       that matter? Do you want to get involved?
                       \_ Georgia is a good friend of the US, is our primary
                          flight path to Afghanistan, and has an oil pipeline
                          that carries 1 million barrels of oil per day.
                          \_ So, it that a 'yes I'd like to get in a war with
                             Russia,' or what?
                             \_ It's a "I think we might have to"
                                \_ Don't be stupid. Russia would crush us if
                                   tried to intervene here. 1M of oil is not
                                   enough to risk WWWIII over.
                                   \_ Mark my words: if no one stops Russia
                                      now (or at least steps up to face them
                                      via sanctions and condemnations),
                                      Russia _will_ reconstitute the USSR.
                                      \_ Okay, I will mark them. I think you are
                                         wrong, but we will find out in a few
                                         years. I am curious, do you think
                                      \_ Okay, I will mark them. I think you
                                         are wrong, but we will find out in a
                                         few years. I am curious, do you think
                                         Russia will invade Lithuania? Because
                                         I don't think so. Can you tell us
                                         how your other motd.prections have
                                         worked out so far?
                                         \_ Lithuania: no. Belarussia: perhaps.
                                            Ukraine: perhaps. My predictions
                                            on the motd so far: haven't tracked
                                            them. Bet: $1 to you if Russia
                                            doesn't annex Belarussia or
                                            Ukraine (or Georgia) within 5
                                            \_ If the only country they annex
                                               is Georgia, that hardly qualifies
                                               as "reconstituting the USSR" now
                                               does it. They would have to annex
                                               all or at least most of their
                                               former colonies, right? I
                                               actually think that Russia will
                                               only annex South Osseta and
                                               only annex South Ossetia and
                                               leave Georgia after they have
                                               been "taught a lesson." Within
                                               a few weeks, at most.
                                               \_ I'm trying to make the bet
                                                  measurable in terms of
                                                  winning; reconstituted USSR
                                                  may take more than five
                                                  \_ How are you defining that
                                                     term?  Do you really see
                                                     East Germany and Poland
                                                     returning to Russian
                                                     control, on any timeframe?
                                                     \_ A fair question. No,
                                                        I'd define this as
                                                        core elements, not
                                                        satellite clients like
                                                        E. Germany, Poland,
                                                        Czechoslovakia, or the
        \_ A Russian general yesterday said Poland is opening itself to
           nuclear attack with a 100 percent possibility if it continues
           to host American base.  kewl!!!!!!!!!!
           \_ Damn! Maybe I should have included the Satellites in the bet!
2008/8/6-10 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50802 Activity:nil
8/6     "Fakeproof" e-passport is cloned in minutes
2008/7/25-29 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50681 Activity:nil
7/25    200,000 or 20,000?
        \_ Dittohead Desperaton Level: Red
           \_ Troll level, poor.
              \_ Dittohead Desperaton Level: Still Red
           \_ I just want to know what the number is. This makes me desperate?
        \_ He's in France now, should he call our French allies
           "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys"? Hey, are you guys still
           calling them "Freedom Fries"? Just curious.
              \_ Numbers are irrelevant in the face of hope and change.
2008/7/23-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50660 Activity:nil
7/23    "Are You Satisfied? The World's Most Optimistic Countries"
        The US is on par with France -- in a bad way.
        \_ We used to rank higher, before Bush got hold of the economy.
2008/7/16-23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50597 Activity:nil
7/16    http://wonkette.com/401074/your-first-exciting-batch-of-paultardpalooza-photos
        my favorite is the guy with the giant "READ ATLAS SHRUGGED" sign
        \_ When I first saw that sign I parsed "READ" as the word that sounded
           the same as "RED".  I thought sign dude was just bragging that
           he managed to finish the whole damn book.
        \_ This is some funny shit.
2008/7/7-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50488 Activity:nil
7/7     We Americans are no longer the worst tourists.
        http://www.csua.org/u/lv7  (Yahoo! News)
        I wonder if it's the decline of the US dollar that made us more humble.
        \_ I doubt it, that wouldn't fit with this: "Americans wind up as the
           biggest-spending and best-tipping tourists."
           \_ we're very generous with money we borrow.
        \_ More likely the decline of the dollar has simply made us travel
           abroad less.
2008/6/20-23 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50318 Activity:low
6/20    Hinchey still thinks nationalization of refineries is a good idea, but
        doesn't think it's likely
        \_ It's a stupid idea.  He should be shot.  Building more refineries
           and not having 8 zillion different blends for ego stroking reasons
           is a good idea.
        \_ I'm amazed the communists state it openly.  Last I checked there
           were property rights in this country.  Besides, the government
           doesn't do /anything/ well, I don't see why anyone would think
           they'd manage the energy industry better than the actual owners.
           \_ The government does lots of things well, you just don't
              appreciate them. The military kicks ass, public schools,
              especially at the post-secondary level (think UC) are good and
              Social Security is the greatest anti-poverty program ever
              \_ The government is "good at" huge expensive bureaucracies.
                 That doesn't mean those are really good things. While it's
                 tough to find a good alternative to the military given the
                 current situation in the world, I find your other examples
                 entirely unconvincing. For one thing, it does not compete
                 on a level playing field: we are forced to pay for it while
                 private alternatives have to earn your $'s. Considering the
                 money spent it does not do most things well. Greatest anti-
                 poverty program eh? Ok... how is it better than the Euro
                 socialist systems?
                 \_ SS administrative costs are 0.6%. Where else are going to
                    see costs that low? Part of that is precisely because of
                    the economies of scale. It also costs much less than
                    the European systems.
2008/6/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:50228 Activity:nil
6/11    Forget something?
2008/6/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50110 Activity:nil
6/1     France legislates regulation of line dancing
2008/5/31-6/2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50104 Activity:nil
5/31    How did the Peruvian potato get all the way to Ireland so the evil
        British king could keep it away from the populace and then kill
        1 million totally hot Irish girls?
        \_ I think a crystal skull was involved.
        \_ Weren't the British conducting a giant 'let the market forces
           determine the availability of the potato' experiment?
2008/5/19-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50002 Activity:nil
5/19    "The aim is to include countries like the United States, China, India
        and Brazil, which have not accepted any binding curbs on their
        emissions so far."
        Cap and trade not exactly working.
2008/5/16-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49980 Activity:nil 80%like:49978
5/16    German Chancellor Merkel deploying Weapons of Mass Distraction at
        national opera house in Norwey:
        http://www.csua.org/u/lko (Yahoo! News)
2008/5/16 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49978 Activity:nil 80%like:49980
5/16    German Chancellor deploying Weapons of Mass Distraction at national
        opera house in Norwey:
2008/5/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49898 Activity:high
5/7     The most sought-after chick-magnet political diplomat in the world:
        \_ Did someone order... some humanitarian relief? Bwam-chika-waa-waa.
2008/4/16-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49760 Activity:nil
4/15    Being a controversial book aside, IQ and the Wealth of Nations
        shows that we're the SMARTEST NATION BABY!!! 107! bahaha -proud hk
        \_ I'm an athiest and I'm smarter than everyone else!
           \_ http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/09/24/headsize_hum.html
              Head size has some correlation with IQ. YEAH BABY  -big head Asian
           \_ You're also uglier than everyone else.
           \_ I don't listen to country music, therefore I'm smart!
           \- northerners are smarter. S Cal people are STUPID:
              \_ Attractiveness inversely correlates with intelligence, so NoCal
                 people are UGLY. SoCal people are beautiful.
                 \_ It's true. Plan B Gentlement's Club, Spearmint Rhino,
                    4 Play, Deja VU Showgirls are consistently better than
                    any of the strip clubs I go to in N Cal. I mean just
                    compare gorgeous babes in S Cal beaches vs. smelly
                    hippy bitches in N Cal. Moral of the story: If you wanna
                    get laid with dumb bimbos, S Cal is THE place baby!
                 \_ ob dumb blonde joke.
        \_ I didn't realize HK was a nation. I guess the authors have
           a low IQ.
           \_ Nor was Puerto Rico.  BTW Macau (avg IQ 104) is mentioned in the
              text but not in the table.  Maybe the author is not completely
              dumb after all.
        \_ Wow!  The big dragon and the four small dragons of Asia took the top
           five spots.
           \_ And Germany is #7. Obviously, Hitler knew what he was doing.
           \_ What I see from this graph:
              Light colored athiest >> Christians > Muslims > colored athiests
2008/4/9-12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49695 Activity:nil 66%like:49676
4/7     this has it all.  Nazis, nazis, and nazis:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/4j3jh2 [nyt]
2008/4/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49676 Activity:nil 66%like:49695
4/7     this has it all.  Nazis, nazis, and nazis:
2008/4/3-9 [Consumer/Audio, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49654 Activity:low
4/3     Teen-repellent device!
        \_ "Inventor of Teen-repellent device seeks regulation of
            his invention."
        \_ "British inventor of teen-repellent device wants laws regulating it"
        \_ Does this work on beagles? My neighbor's beagles bark all
           day long when he's gone and it's driving everyone nuts. Actually
           it's not so much of a bark as it is a deep WOOWOOOWOOOO!
           WOOWOOOOWOOOOO! WOWOWOOOOOOOWOOOOOOO!!! It's not your typical
           bar bark bark sound. I don't know the proper name for
           a beagle WOOWOOWOOOOOO!
           \_ Beagles don't bark, they "bay."
           \_ I don't know about 'the mosquito' but anti-freeze works great
              for that problem.
              \_ So does jail time for killing the dog.  Idiot.
           \- there is an mp3 of this you can download. i added it to
              my itunes ... it's kinda interesting to see who can/cant
              hear it on my MPB.
              my itunes ... it's kinda fun to see who can/cant hear it
              on my MPB.
           \_ Hey genius, I told you last time you whined about the dog to
              call the cops with a noise complaint.  Did you?  No.  I'm
              ashamed to think we went to the same school.
              \_ Actually I did, the cop said if the owner is not violating
                 animal cruelty law (sanitation, food, shelter), and that
                 I should take it up with the city as there's not much
                 they can do about this case. Neighbor-to-neighbor disputes
                 need to be taken care of in civil/litigation or something.
                 \_ A few things then. 1) your cop/town is lame.  you have a
                    valid noise complain in any civil place.  2) abusing the
                    dog will not get it to quiet down, 3) try talking to your
                    neighbor, 4) please accept my apologies for bashing you
                    earlier, I'm honestly quite shocked the police didn't take
                    a noise report which is the start of the process to ding
                    your neighbor for disturbing the peace in a normal city.
                    \_ Ya it's ok, motd doesn't bother me compared to what
                       I have to tolerate every day. I searched online for
                       this problem and unfortunately it's really complex
                       as each state and city and county ordinances are
                       different. The cops are right though, it's a neighbor
                       to neighbor dispute in which they can't arrest anyone
                       for it. Unless violence or harm has done they can't
                       really put the owner in jail. They can however write
                       police reports, which may prove to be helpful in
                       the court.
2008/3/21-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49527 Activity:nil
3/21    I had no idea that German toilets were so odd, any comments?
        \_ Heil German John! Can you explain to us, John?
2008/3/13-17 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49452 Activity:nil 75%like:49448
3/13    Spitzer is an Repblican now!
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/ynmspk [yahoo news uk]
        \_ Maybe they found out he used male prostitutes too
        \_ It's AP news.  Give them a break, it isn't like they're a real news
           service.  They collect propaganda from around the world and publish
           it as fact unvetted.
2008/2/28-3/4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49288 Activity:nil
2/28    Prince Harry looking like a bad-ass American GI:
        http://www.csua.org/u/kx1 (Yahoo! News Photos)
        \_ Doesn't he look more like a British soldier?
           \_ But that face looks more like an American GI in Vietnam to me.
              -- OP
2008/2/26-3/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49271 Activity:low
2/26    Why are there so many Indian women on BBC talking about British
        and world news? Shouldn't they present Indian news instead?
        \_ Outsourcing.
        \_ Light skin coloured Indian women with Bengali last names
           speaking in Standard British accent sound more sophisticated and
           smarter than bloody dumb blondes.
           \_ Their skin color makes them sound better?
              \_ It doesn't, but most Bengali's are fair skinned and
                 very Westernized (they love Channel and Fendi and
                 Tiffany's) and have a presence more elegant than
                 bloody dumb blondes. Southern women tend to be a bit
                 more brash and ditto with Punjabs      -pp GO INDIA!
                 \- speaking as a bengali who is reasonably fair skinned,
                    has bought ChanNel [sic] but hates spending money on
                    perfume [maybe Channel 5 is the Chav version of Chanel
                    No. 5?] owns a Fendi scarf, but equates Tiffany with the
                    Devil aka DeBeers ... you dont know what you are talking
                    \_ Hey, give him a break, he's probably a sexually
                       inexperienced nerd who is confusing being attracted to
                       exotic women with character judgement.
        \_ Why are there so many East Asian women on US new channels?
        \_ Why are there so many East Asian women on US news channels?
           I bet the answer is the same...
           \_ Is it because big robust blonds like JACKIE JOHNSON looks
              less exotic and intellectual than Asian news-anchorwomen?
2008/2/20-22 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Media] UID:49196 Activity:nil
2/20    The First Jedi Academy is opening in the UK:
2008/1/28-2/2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:49019 Activity:nil
1/15    Dear French experts, can you please point me to a website (like
        babelfish) that'll help me pronunciate French words? For example
        I have no idea how to pronunciate "Bichon a poil Fris".
2008/1/23-31 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48997 Activity:nil
1/23    Ok, this sounds like satire... but it isn't.
        Uk agency considers 'The Three Little Pigs' to be racist.
2008/1/7-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48897 Activity:low
1/7     'Iranian boats "provoke" US Navy ships in Hormuz: CNN'
        \_ Why is 'provoke' in quotes?  You don't think their actions were a
           \_ If Iranian battle ships are sailing as clost to our
              border as we are, you bet we'll provoke them as well, haha.
              Now go back to work.
              \_ 12 miles, kids.  It's the law.  International law.  Outside
                 12 miles you're in international waters and free to float.
           \_ I just copied the title verbatim from the web page.  -- OP
2007/12/20-29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48843 Activity:kinda low
12/20   We don't need no stinking Kyoto:
        The Kyoto treaty was agreed upon in late 1997 and countries started
        signing and ratifying it in 1998.  A list of countries and their carbon
        dioxide emissions due to consumption of fossil fuels is available from
        the U.S. government.  If we look at that data and compare 2004 (latest
        year for which data is available) to 1997 (last year before the Kyoto
        treaty was signed), we find the following.

        Emissions worldwide increased 18.0%.
        Emissions from countries that signed the treaty increased 21.1%.
        Emissions from non-signers increased 10.0%.
        Emissions from the U.S. increased 6.6%.
        In fact, emissions from the U.S. grew slower than those of over 75% of
        the countries that signed Kyoto.
        \_ Wow!  If this is true, how come the Bush Admin didn't make a fuss
           about this?
        \_ Well, that's a little misleading since the "developing" signers
           didn't actually have to do anything, and they're the ones with the
           really big growth numbers. They are pushing up the averages.
           \_ No, that is exactly the point.
           \_ US: 6.6%
              Canada, 8.8%
              Japan, 11%
              Finland, 15%
              Norway, 24%
              Iceland, 29%
              China, 55%
              \_ China is developing.  Anyway, hy only published a few
                 countries.  Why about France, Britain, Germany, etc?  I guess
                 it doesn't really matter, I think Kyoto is dumb too.
                 \_ France, 6.2%
                    UK, 3.4%
                    Germany, -1.6%
                    Spain, 37.8%
                 \_ China's emissions exceed ours now.  They're the biggest
                    emiiters in the world. The author has an XLS sheet of
                    absolute numbers.
                    \_ That link appears to be broken.  Anyway, Kyoto was
                       designed to have that result.  Why be surprised?
                       \_ Link works for me.
        \_ So I am curious, are you trying to make the claim that the Kyoto
           treaty actually led to the world producing *more* greenhouse gases
           than if it had not been signed? That seems pretty unlikely to me.
           If you are claiming that is was ineffective, I agree, we need much
           more stringent standards than the ones we have now.
           \_ No, we just need to meet the standards already in place.
           \_ No, I mean that the harping on ratifying the protocol or not is
              silly, when we're doing better than most countries that signed on
              to it. -op
2007/12/6-13 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48756 Activity:kinda low
12/6    About "While Europe Slept"
        Having recently published an indictment of Christian fundamentalist
        intolerance in the U.S. (Stealing Jesus), New York native Bawer
        relocated to Europe with his Norwegian partner in 1998 and found an
        even more dangerous strain of religious and cultural bigotry ensnaring
        Western Europe. A swarming menace called radical Islam, he writes,
        rings Europe's cities in smoldering Muslim ghettos, provoking
        everything from so-called honor killings and political assassinations
        to the Madrid subway bombings and the massacre of school children in
        Beslan. Worse, the Taliban-like theocracy Bawer sees looming inside
        backward immigrant populations resistant to integration flourishes
        under the protective wing of Western Europe's America-bashing,
        multicultural, liberal establishment.
        \_ Sure, and that's why armed thugs are enforcing burka-wearing
           ordinances in Fremont. Oh, wait, they're not? How'd that happen?
           Oh, right, because Bawer's a nut and a bigot.
           \_ He's gay, and went to the Netherlands to live in a more accepting
              place with his partner. He was assaulted at least once by Muslims
              who saw him together with his partner.
              \_ And on the basis of this he insists that Europe is one step
                 from Sharia? Cf. "I got mugged by a black man, so all black
                 men must be criminals."
           \_ Fremont is in Europe?
              \_ Sorry, misread "Europe's" for "American."
        \_ Yeah, go back and read about how the Irish/Italians/Mexicans, etc
           would not integrate and were doomed to destroy America. It is the
           same old alarmism. It is perhaps true that Europe has a shorter
           history of integrating immigrants, so will need to learn, but
           same old alarmism. It is perhaps true that Europe has less
           experience in integrating immigrants, so will need to learn, but
           hardly concievable that a small minority would overwhelm the
           majoritarian culture.
           \_ Irish/Italians/Mexicans were not Muslim.
            \_ And therefor not EEEEEEEEEEVIL?
              \_ No, they were Catholic, which was considered even worse.
                \_ Yet they weren't blowing people up.
                   \_ Neither are Muslims.  The French riots, 9/11, etc were
                      all the acts of "students" and "youths".
                   \_ You are obviously unfamiliar with the history of the
                      IWW. Ever heard of the Haymarket Riot?
2007/12/4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48739 Activity:nil
12/4    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/136642/most_popular_dog_breeds_in_southern.html
        Yorkshire Terrier is the 2nd most popular dog in the South.  These
        fucking annoying little bastards bark all day long in my apartment
        complex and I simply don't understand how their owners actually
        tolerate them. Fuck yorkies.            -dog hating troller
2007/11/11-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48605 Activity:nil
11/11   Kick them out - Home secretary set to order Italian-style
        crackdown on immigrants
        \_ Why would anyone ever click on a link with a bare IP address?  When
           you're using tactics common in spam and worms, it doesn't put you
           or your points in a good light. -dans
           \_ Um, because for every 10 smart guys like you (AH HEM ya ok)
              there is 1 more sucker who will click on it.
              \_ Which is why those things work in spam and worms which are a
                 numbers game anyway.  I'd like to believe the level of clue on
                 the motd is appreciably higher than people who click on links
                 in spam.  Perhaps I'm a fool for wanting to believe that.
                 \_ Oh yes, the fact that you're trolled so easily,
                    is a clear indication that you are.
                    \_ Who's the greater fool, the fool or the fool who
                       follows him? -dans
2007/11/2 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48520 Activity:nil
11/2    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071102/ap_on_go_ot/us_iraq_curveball
2007/11/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48505 Activity:kinda low
11/1    "I surely hope those Americans who renamed French fries into freedom
        fries and then those Americans who poured perfectly good French wine
        down their drains, I hope they realize what foolishness that was."
        http://www.csua.org/u/jvh (Yahoo News)
        \_ Isn't French fries actually "french fries" which has nothing to do
           with the country France?
        \_ Isn't French fries actually "french fries" and doesn't it have
           nothing to do with the country France?
           \_ "frenched fries" -> "french fries".
              To french a vegtable is to cut it in matchsticks.
              \_ Or kiss it with lots of tongue.
           \_ Oui.
           \_ why couldn't they just call them 'chips' like the brits do.
              \_ Because in the US chips = crisps.  You'd have to change 2
                 words.  I think just 'fries' would have been fine tho'.
              \_ I just call them 'fries'
2007/10/29-11/1 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48468 Activity:nil
10/28   What's the proper pronunciation for "chien" in French?
        \- er how are you expecting people to tell you? roughly
           "shee-ay". dont pronounce the n unless fem form "chienne".
           i assume you arent looking for the nuanced difference between
           chien in french french vs quebec french etc. you may wish to
           watch "un chien andalou".
           \_ Thanks partha, you rule! So how do you say
              caniche or chien canne?
              \- i dont know. http://tinyurl.com/gamqr
           \_ "Un Chien Andalou"? Oh, cruel, cruel Partha.
2007/10/20-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48395 Activity:nil
10/19   german shepherd.
        \_ labradoodle
           \_ swami the not so magnificent
              \_ ObSwamiRules
2007/10/19-24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Media] UID:48387 Activity:low
10/19   new VAN DAMME movie
        \_ Is there a Labrador in it?
           \_ No, JCVD isa big Poodle fan.
           \_ No, JCVD isa big ausman fan.
           \_ No, JCVD isa big german shepherd fan.
2007/10/18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48379 Activity:moderate
10/18   when a girl tells me she is seeing someone else, what does that mean?
        they're making coffee?  picking out drapes?  had the german soldier
        marching?  building the beast with two backs?  taking the flesh
        express to tuna town?  aardvarking?  hiding the salami?
        motd not getting laid guy, do you have a good cable package?
        we should hang out.
        \_ It means everything is cool and you should upgrade your phone plan.
           \_ What does that mean?  I'm not a complete idiot you know!
2007/10/18-20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:48369 Activity:kinda low
10/18   has a new all powerful motd troll emerged from the primordial
        ooze?  All hail not believing in the advancement of the internet guy!
        \_ huh?
        \_ Probably just an old troll, back from the dead, Frankenstien-like.
        \_ All hail 'make shit up op troll guy'!
        \_ He believes in the power of the german shepherd!
2007/10/17-19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48345 Activity:high
10/17   What are some examples of successful & sustainable colonies?
        \_ Israel
           \_ A colony of what country, USA? You're funny.
           \_ We do give them a few billion a year.  Same with Egypt.
              I doubt Egypt or Israel would exist in its present state
              without our aid.  You could argue that they'd be better off
              in a different version.
        \_ phillipines (better troll)
           \_ A colony of what country, USA? You'rnes (better troll)
           \_ A colony of what country?
        \_ Ants and Bees
        \_  Sheffield, Cairo, Marco Nicosia, Odessa, Sabishii, Mangala,
            Dorsa Brevia, Christianopolis, Acheron
        \_ USA
           \_ No you stupid. USA is not a colony, USA is a sovereign
              nation and has been since 1776. A colony is one that depends
              on the motherland. Georgia, Massachussettes, etc were
              colonies of England. Likewise, Poland, France, etc were
              colonies of Nazi Germany. They're all sovereign entities
              now, but not colonies.
              \_ You have a different definition of success than me, then.
        \_ Hong Kong (before it went back to China.)
        \_ The United States of America
           \_ Someone already said "USA" above.
              \_ Maybe they meant Usa, Japan?
                 \_ My wife's family is originally from Usa, Japan. --erikred
                    \_ Her family were colonists?  How cool is that!
                       \_ Oh, the truths spoken in ignorance. :) Usa's a
                          fishing town on the southern coast of Shikoku.
                          There's plenty of speculation about internat'l
                          relations among the fisherfolk, even under the
                          Tokugawa isolation policy. --erikred
                          \_ I'm aware of Usa, Japan.  You know about the
                             post-WW2 shipping labels, right?
                             \_ I'm aware of the "Made in Usa" urban legend,
                                \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa%2C_Japan
                                   It says the myth part is that the city was
                                   renamed, not that anything was shipped
                                   from there.
        \_ Over the long term?  None.  They always either collapse or break
           away and go independent.  In a few cases they become absorbed but
           that is much rarer.
           \_ Breaking away doesn't mean they aren't successful and/or
              sustainable. The USA has been very helpful to the UK in the 20th
              \_ If it breaks away it isn't a colony.
                 \_ Ok, fine. But the USA, Australia, NZ are still cultural
                    colonies of England in a broad sense.
                    \_ Sure, ok, they all speak some form of English and have
                       some sort of democracy so in a "broad sense", sure. I
                       won't argue that.  In a broad sense.
                       \_ Canada and Australia are still under the Queen
                          of England, no? I would say that Canada, USA,
                          and Australia are examples of colonies that were
                          extremely successful and sustainable at least until
                          the point they broke away. What about Hawaii or
                          Puerto Rico? How do you classify those?
        \_ I don't know about you but Iraq has been sustainable so
           far and we're getting a hecka amount of oil from them.
           \_ I don't think we're getting any oil from them.  Damn, trolled.
              \_ We are, just not as much as hoped. Note the huge
                 military presence in key oil refineries.
                 \_ The Spice must flow!
                 \_ You know for a SF epic written in the back of a van
                    behind the old Chronicle/Examiner building, there are
                    an amazing amount of parallels you can draw between
                    Dune and current events.  Frank Herbert, you ruled.
                    \_ Here's hoping he got the Kwisatch Haderach part wrong...
                       \_ You just tipped the geek meter.  Grats.
        \_ Northern Ireland.
2007/9/19-22 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48119 Activity:nil
9/19    Heil German John!
        \_ " Man hides sex toys in the wurst way..." Yahoo! News
           \_ "Man hides sex toys in bigger sex toy."
        \_ Hilarious, THANKS for the link! More!!!
2007/9/18-22 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:48099 Activity:nil 75%like:48098
9/18    "Shrinking kilogram bewilders physicists"
        *The* kilogram is weighing less.
        \_ Old news.
        \_ Even worse, WE DON'T KNOW WHY!!!!
           \- maybe the dildo really is 9lb!
              \_ It's completely natural for a dildo to lose weight when it
                 goes from erect state to flaccid state.  Oh wait ...
2007/9/18-20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics] UID:48095 Activity:nil 60%like:48092
9/18    Shades of Andromeda Strain:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/2ftvyg (Yahoo! News)
2007/9/8-10 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47956 Activity:nil
9/8     John Edwards calls upon world to join us in fight against terrorism
        saying you're either with us or against us:
        \_ Can't wait to vote for Obama in the Primaries.
        \_ Imagine the gall of the guy, actually trying to engage our allies.
           Wouldn't we have better luck if we called them Cheese Eating
           Surrender Monkeys and renamed fried potatoes Freedom Fries?
           \_ You didn't RTA.  He is doing no such thing.  Read his quotes,
              not the "journalist's" description of it.  You join us and
              follow our rules or you're with the terrorists.  Your second
              sentence is just noise.  Not even Bush has called anyone that.
              \_ Once again, your reading skills are subpar:
                 "Those nations who refuse to join will be called out before
                  the world."
                 Explain to me how you get "you're with the terrorists" from
                 this. At worst, I see a vagueness in what will happen to
                 nations that refuse to join. -!pp
              \_ On 11 March 2003, Representatives Robert W. Ney (R-Ohio) and
                 Walter B. Jones, Jr. (R-North Carolina) declared that all
                 references to French fries and French toast on the menus of
                 the restaurants and snack bars run by the House of
                 Representatives would be removed. House cafeterias were
                 ordered to rename French fries as "freedom fries".
2007/9/4-7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47896 Activity:very high
9/4     "Annual job growth has definitely not reached pre-recession levels in
        1990s. In California, 200,000 jobs were added last year compared to
        400,000 (annually) between 1997 and 2000. In the United States, we're
        still nowhere where we were in annual job additions as a whole." The
        200,000 increase was unable to keep up with the state's increasing
        population, with unemployment jumping to 5.2 percent in the last 12
        months from 4.9 percent the previous year.  The same holds true for
        wages. While earnings rose by 0.4 percent between 2006 and 2007
        nationwide, the biggest increase in five years, in California real
        wages fell by 0.8 percent. Statewide, wages are 1 percent lower in 2007
        than in 2003.
          -Arindrajit Dube, UC Berkeley Center for Labor Research and Education
        \_ You mean the economy of the 90s that was based on nothing, like
           http://pets.com?  And "jumped" to 5.2%?  I thought that was theoretically
           full employment.  Or are we supposed to ignore the unemployment rate
           only when it's going down?
           \_ From poking around http://www.bls.gov/lau (regional
              resources there on the right) it looks like unemplyment
              is due for a serious upswing soon.  One thing to note
              about those graphs, if you look at the cycles they have
              they are pretty cyclical, but the unemployment percentages
              have been trending down over the years.  That's because
              politicians have had a strong intrest in redefining unemployment
              so that the numbers come out lower.  In the 70s it was a hell
              of a lot easier to be classified as unemployed than it is now.
              \_ Screw your predictions.  Let us know when it actually happens.
               \_ http://tinyurl.com/3asgnu
                  Tell me that doesn't look like the start of a big jump.
                  \_ Oh good grief. You can't extrapolate 100 data points from
                     3 (numbers pulled out of my ass).
                     \_ I'm not saying it is a sure thing, but I'd bet even
                        money on it.  In a heartbeat.
                        \_ This bet is looking better and better:
           \_ I read this morning that for the first time since 2001, Japan
              and a few EU countries might have exceeded US GDP growth.  So
              clearly the non-US countries have the right economic plans in
              place.  It just took 6+ years to see the positive results.
              \_ Japan's GDP growth has a lot to do with trade surplus against
                 China.  And China can only afford such trade plus because
                 *ITS* trade surplus against USA.  So, in that regard,
                 you should give yourself a bit more credit.  Now, please
                 go ahead take out another equity loans for the sake of global
                 economy growth.
              \_ Umm.. I don't think that follows, exactly.
                 \_ This. Is. MOTD!!  Where non sequitur rules!
               \_ What has GDP/capita growth been like in those countries?
                  Who really cares if the nations overall GDP has gone up
                  if all that has just been due to population growth? Most of
                  Europe has beaten US GDP/capita growth for about three
                  years. And even Japan is starting to beat us now.
            \_ 5.2% is a cooked figure that does not include all the out
               of work illegals. According to The Economist, if we used
               the pre-Clinton way of counting unemployment, it would
               be about 1.5% higher. Most economists these days discount
               the idea of "full employment" after the decade long period
               of 4% unemployment and low inflation in the 90s. How man
               people do you think actually worked at http://pets.com and other
               <DEAD>dot.com<DEAD>s? It was a pretty small part of the economy.
               \_ Pre-Clinton?  You mean Bush/Reagan?  6.7% is still lower
               \_ Pre-Clinton?  You mean Bush/R      \_ Pre-Clinton?  You mean B\
ush/Reagan?  6.7% is still lower
                  than anywhere in Europe yet their economies and health plans
                  are stronger than here so we should be emulating their
                  \_ No, there are many countries in Europe with an
                     unemployment rate less than 6.7 or even 5.2. Try
                     Ireland, The Netherlands and Switzerland, to start.
                     And it was Clinton who really started fudging the
                     numbers, not Reagan.
                     \_ Those are not big economies.  My village of 12 people
                        has a 0% jobless rate.  And I don't know about the
                        other two but Ireland is hardly known for their high
                        productivity, hard work, and strong work ethic.  Take
                        a look at real countries like Germany and France.
                        \_ What benefit do hard work and a strong work ethic
                           bring to the citizens of a country?  Other than
                           more work.  -tom
                           \_ Prosperity.  Or we could all just live off the
                              government dole with magically created food,
                              housing, and other products.  Where do you come
                              up with this stuff?  Is there some web site
                              where I can just pre-read all this bizareness?
                              \_ The countries in western Europe are plenty
                                 prosperous.  And they're more productive
                                 than the U.S. on a per-hour-worked basis. -tom
                                 \_ http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/04/business/worldbusiness/04output.html?ref=business
                                        -- ilyas
                                 \_ hi ilyas my elisp killed your url.
                                    \_ So you have the 5 seconds to apologize
                                       but not 5 seconds to put the url back?
                                       It's this btw:
                                       ERROR: Moved Temporarily
                                       If your scripts are broken don't use
                                       them.  -- ilyas
                                       \_ my url shorterner really hates
                                          that url.  very very odd.
                                 \_ Not only are you wrong about current
                                    productivity but western europe's socialist
                                    system is headed towards complete collapse
                                    as the number of workers per slacker has
                                    dropped dramatically in the last few
                                    decades.  But nevermind all those pesky
                                    facts.  The government will just raise
                                    someone else's taxes and magically provide
                                    the rest of us with all we need from cradle
                                    to grave.
                                    \_ Usenet libertarians have been predicting
                                       the imminent collapse of "socialist
                                       Europe" since at least 1989. Since
                                       then, if anything, they have been
                                       catching up to the US.
                                       \_ Catching up in what way? Europe
                                          will collapse before the US
                                          does. They have already started
                                          cutting services.
                                          \_ Median GDP per person as a
                                             percentage of the US median GDP.
                                             How would you measure "catching
                                             \_ I didn't see what you were
                                                getting at. I don't think
                                                median GDP per person is
                                                useful in this sense. What
                                                is important is to look at
                                                outlays versus expenditures,
                                                especially commitments
                                                that have been made. If
                                                GDP doubles, but outlays
                                                will triple then Europe
                                                will still go broke.
                                                \_ If their economy is growing
                                                   faster than ours, it is
                                                   pretty hard to make the
                                                   case that it is collapsing.
                                                   No one (no one who is
                                                   intellectually serious at
                                                   least) believes that govt
                                                   outlays will exceed the
                                                   size of the economy.
                                                   \_ Of course not, because
                                                      they will be cut before
                                                      then as is already
                                                      happening. When
                                                      those outlays shrink
                                                      then, surprise!,
                                                      socialism becomes
                                                      strikingly similar
                                                      to what we have in
                                                      the US currently. It
                                                      is impossible to
                                                      continue with the
                                                      current European model.
                                                      You should look at
                                                      "profit" as defined
                                                      by GDP growth minus
                                                      growth of outlays at
                                                      the current level of
                                                      benefits. I am betting
                                                      this is a negative number.
                                                      \_ Not a chance that this
                                                         is a negative number
                                                         since 1989.
                                                         \_ What makes you
                                                            say this?  France's
                                                            2% GDP growth?
                                                            This chart doesn't
                                                            show what I'd like,
                                                            but it still shows
                                                            that France is
                                                            borrowing heavily:
                                                            ERROR: Don't shorten\
 urls from other shortening services
                                                            BTW, the unfunded
                                                            SS liability in
                                                            France is 2x that
                                                            of the USA.
                Yes, that chart doesn't show what you'd like_/
                In fact, it shows the exact opposite of what
                you'd like. It shows that public deficit
                peaked at 5.9% in 1993 and since then has
                more or less steadily been going down to
                the current level of 2.5%. Unless taxes
                have been going up (hint: they have not)
                the "growth of outlays" as you put it
                has been negative. So GDP (per capita,
                because that is what really matters)
                minus growth of outlays (which has been
                negative) is quite strongly positive.
                How do I know this? Because I pay
                attention to stuff like this, that's
                why. The government's expenditures as
                a percentage of the total economy has
                been trending down for a while in Europe,
                which is the exact opposite of your
                \_ France reformed its SS system, so that could be why
                   expenditures have been less. It could be because they
                   cut other programs like defense. We don't know from
                   this data. However, cuts will continue to happen. If you
                   look at your own chart you will see that expenditure
                   is flat from 1991 to 2002 (slightly higher for France,
                   actually). As for the chart I showed, that is the
                   deficit each year. The country is in the red every
                   year. How many years can that continue? Sure, they are
                   better off now than in 1993, but essentially flat since
                   1990. In fact, the deficit exceeded that of 1990 in
                   15 of 18 years. When a country runs a deficit every
                   year that means the current model is not sustainable.
                   I have an aunt and many cousins in France and two aunts
                   and a cousin in Holland and they all say that the level
                   of government services that they had in the 1970s and
                   1980s does not exist anymore. They blame the influx of
                   immigrants from Africa and the Middle East. Regardless
                   of who is to blame, the socialist utopia is breaking
                   down and I think it will ultimately erode almost to the
                   point of the US system. It is ironic that so many in
                   the US wish to emulate them when their governments are
                   trying to emulate us (though it is a hard sell to
                   people used to being on the dole). My Dutch cousin, a
                   teacher by trade but an artist and author in an ideal
                   world, was made to go back to work for the first time
                   in her life (she's 45). She had worked when she wanted
                   and took time off (paid for the government, of course)
                   to do art and write when she wanted. Needless to say,
                   she eventually didn't bother teaching at all. Why would
                   you when you get checks and an apartment for nothing?
                   Well, the government finally (after the last reform)
                   told her they needed teachers, she wasn't injured and
                   to get her butt back to work. The horror! Oh she was so
                   mad! It's just another sign that things are not how
                   they used to be and I think that is good for the
                   Europeans, many of whom had gotten lazy.
                   \_ The plural of anecdote is not data. What other
                      major economic power has run a budget deficit every
                      single year (except one) for the last 20 years? Hint:
                      you don't have to look too far to find it. The EU has
                      huge efficiencies that that US does not, which I will
                      not bother trying to explain to you, since your mind
                      is already made up, in the abscence of any factual
                      information whatsover. In any case, my prediction is
                      that the US and EU economies will converge, and that
                      neither one will "collapse", which is your prediction.
                      Let's watch and see who is correct, shall we?
                      \_ The EU will collapse *unless they change what
                         they are doing*. If they converge with the US
                         then of course they won't collapse. However,
                         that's not status quo now is it? The US is
                         running debts because of defense spending and not
                         because of social programs. I have anecdotal
                         evidence *and* data. You don't have either. have
                         you ever been to Europe? Do you know anything
                         about it?
                         \_ Yes, I have been to Europe, many times. You
                            predicted the complete and inevitable collapse
                            of the EU economy. Nice to see that you are
                            backpeddling now in the face of evidence. The
                            only data you presented not only didn't support
                            your case, it argued against it. And why is
                            deficit spending due to defense spending any
                            more likely to improve an economy than any other?
                            The best kind of deficit spending is probably
                            on infrastructure improvement and education, not
                            on blowing up people in Iraq.
                            \_ Uh, no. My chart does not argue against my
                               point. France is running a deficit every
                               year and 15 of the last 18 years it
                               has run deficits larger than it did in 1990
                               so clearly it is digging itself a hole with
                               current policy. I never said that defense
                               spending is "better" only that we are
                               talking about social programs. The US will
                               not spend itself to death because of social
                               programs unless Hilary does something stupid.
                               France, on the other hand, will do so
                               unless they change their system. It's a lot
                               easier to cut defense spending than to tell
                               several generations of people to expect less
                               because their expectations of housing and
                               health care were unrealistic. BTW, I
                               predict that EU will collapse *if they
                               continue doing what they are doing*. They
                               can always alter the course. I would never
                               argue against that. It's not backpeddling.
                               I would lump in Japan, too.
                                       \_ As stated, the EU continues to make
                                          more non-working people than working
                                          people.  If you can explain how that
                                          trend can continue without leading
                                          to inevitable collapse I'd love to
                                          hear it.  If you can explain what
                                          will stop that trend, instead, that
                                          would be nice too.  Until you can do
                                          so, smearing people with some silly
                                          'usenet libertarian' label and
                                          changing what was said into a straw
                                          \_ "European socialist" is not a
                                             straw man, but "usenet libertarian"
                                             straw man, but "usenet
                                             is? How about this one then? You
                                             are a crackpot.
                                             libertarian" is? How about
                                             this one then? You are a crackpot.
                                             \_ They proudly call themselves
                                                that.  It is not an insult to
                                                call them socialists.  Now then
                                                anytime you'd like to answer my
                                                trendline questions, feel free.
                        \_ Did you say "anywhere in Europe" or not? And those
                           are just the ones I knew of off the top of my head,
                           I am sure there are others. But yes, the big
                           countries in Europe all have high unemployment,
                           with the exception of the UK, if that is Europe.
                           And you obviously don't know about the "Irish
                           miracle." It is one of the fastest growing
                           economies in Europe.
                           \_ Based on freakishly low, nearly illegal levels of
                              business taxes designed to drain their neighbor's
                              economies.  Miracle indeed.
                              \_ Can you explain for us not economically
                                 enabled how you can drain your neighbor's
                                 economies by doing something in your own
                              \_ "illegal levels"? lol
                               \_ If you have free trade and work agreements
                                  with other countries those may very well
                                  have rules to stop just this kind of
                                  abuse.  Treaties with other nations
                                  work like laws, the penalties for breaking
                                  them are just different than if you get
                                  caught going 150 mph with 5 kilos of
                                  blow and trunkload of dead hookers.
                                \_ Low business taxes are not an abuse. Why
                                   must there be any business taxes? A
                                   business is not a person. It's redundant
                                   with other forms of taxes. It's the
                                   argument of idiots that we should "tax
                                   the rich greedy corporations" as if they
                                   are magical beings independent of their
                                   employees, customers, and shareholders.
                                   \_ Because then everyone who can afford
                                      to incorperates, and has a magic
                                      bussiness that buys them what they
                                      need and it is a huge loophole.  But
                                      mostly because taxes are not a one
                                      time thing.  The same money gets
                                      taxed over and over again, goes
                                      into the government who spends it
                                      and guess what, gets taxed AGAIN.
                                      It's not a simple system and any
                                      attempt to claim that taxes should
                                      only happen at one place because
                                      anything else is double taxation or
                                      whatever bullshit is the ravings
                                      of a moronic libritarian utopian.
                                      \_ No, it is the ravings of a perfectly
                                         intellegent and self-serving wealthy
                                         person who is trying to shift their
                                         tax burden to someone else.
                                         \_ "intellegent"? stupid fuck.
                                            \_ spelling flames: the last
                                               refuge of he who has lost
                                               his argument
                                                \_ I saw no argument, merely
                                                   an idiotic assertion.
                                      \_ Incorporating isn't that expensive.
                                         You file some paperwork, it costs a
                                         few bucks well within reach of anyone
                                         with income to be taxed.
                                      \_ A magic business buying everything
                                         someone needs is illegal. You can't
                                         write off everything unless you
                                         are committing fraud. I didn't
                                         say tax should happen at one place
                                         because of double taxation. I just
                                         say that business taxes result are
                                         say that business taxes are
                                         ultimately paid by people. And
                                         your argument is fucking stupid:
                                         "mostly because taxes are not a
                                         one time thing". Uh, stupid?
                                         one time thing". That's not even
                                         an argument. "You need business
                                         taxes because taxes are not a
                                         one time thing." ???
                                         Libertarianism is a worthy goal
                                         where it works. We should avoid
                                         something because it is "libertarian"?
                                         Yes control is good for its own
                                         sake. Totalitarian fuckwad.
                                         \_ Libertarianism is a great
                                            thing in your magic utopian
                                            world where it works worth a
                                            damn.  Then again so is
                                            communism.  And benevolent
                                            fascism.  Sadly, we don't live
                                            in any of those worlds.
                                          \_ Only in your pessimistic
                                             communist world is Liberty itself
                                             and impossible ideal.
                                             \_ And you want to flame others
                                                for their spelling? Oy vey.
                        \_ Yeah, those lazy Irish can't do crap.  Eatin'
                           potatoes and drinking beer all the time.
                           \_ Not so much on the potatoes anymore but
                              otherwise just about right, yeah.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47857 Activity:moderate
8/31    Why'd you trash my HUMAN WEAPON thread but you kept the
        one about the chick in Unit I with 32DDD tits?
        \_ They do not get that pig wihtout significant
        \_ They do not get that big without significant
           pork action.
        \_ French martial arts look hilarious.  "When you are hit
           in leg, do not look at your leg.  You are not hurting
           in your leg, only your heart."
           \_ This is reflected in their "French military victory" records. :-)
              \_ Ignoring the Maginot Line, the french actually have an
              \_ Ignoring the Maginot Line, the French actually have an
                 incredible history of military victories.  They lost
                 so badly and quickly in WW2 because all of their fighting
                 men died horrible deaths in Verdun.
                 Anyway Americans who go on and on about French 'surrender
                 monkeys' piss me off, there would be no America without
                 French military support in the late 1700s.  The French
                 spent so much money on America that the French people got
                 pissed and executed their monarchy.
                 \_ I know how to settle this debate:  Let's just invade
                    France!!  They got weapon of mass destructions, and they
                    host terrorist... perfect.  what are better way to  find
                    out how good they fight by FIGHTING them?
                 \_ 1700s: true.  WW2 lost due to WW1: false.  The Germans
                    lost a huge number of men in WW1 also, so apples to apples
                    the French got their asses handed to them in WW2 because
                    their generals were *stupid* and still trying to fight
                    WW1 with their static fortress which didn't even cover
                    their entire border to the coast leading to the well
                    known end-run around it straight to Paris.  And btw, the
                    French in WW1 were so stupid, they had a revolt on the
                    line which only ended when a number of revolt leaders
                    stepped up to be executed for the revolt in exchange for
                    the generals promising to stop being such jackasses.
                  \- you may wish to read:
                     [the first book pretty much grew out of a UCB PhD
                     Also Twenty Years Crisis/EH Carr is very good but on
                     a slightly different matter. These are all standard.
                     \_ I don't see how either of these books refutes what
                        I had to say about France.  Or are you just suggesting
                        further reading I might find interesting?  In that
                        case the second link does look interesting, the first
                        much less so.  Thanks for the links.
                        \- i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you.
                           but poltical scientists talk about ww1, ww2,
                           the cold war etc in different terms than historians
                           and these are two "standard works" in this area.
                           the carr book is just a good read, as is "man
                           the state and war" [which also touches on ww1 as
                           test case for a certain theory, but that is really
                           a theory of IR book, not a book about 20th cent
                           events, but is a major classic. on a trivia note:
                           the author of MSW is an important emeritus ucb
                           prof. the author of link #1 did his phd under him.
                           after he retired from ucb, the author of #2 link
                           invited him to teach an columbia]. BTW, if you are
                           deeply interested in the French military history
                           of the early 20th cent, you might also look at this:
                           Beth Kier is also not unattractive, although her
                           book is not of the stature of the ones above (i
                           havent read all of this one. it's a little more
                           Beth Kier I believe did her phd under the link #2
                           author and is not unattractive, although this book
                           is not of the stature of the ones above (i havent
                           read all of this one. it's a little more airy-fairy)
2007/8/1-3 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47504 Activity:nil
8/1     http://www.csua.org/u/j99
        Hope on the Battlefield
        by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
        Military leaders know a secret: The vast majority of people are
        overwhelmingly reluctant to take a human life.
2007/7/27-31 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47445 Activity:nil
7/27    This is one crazy story.
        One of the suspects is the scion of a wealthy Russian family.
        I like how seomeone went through wikipedia already and linked
        their pages to the younger suspect.
2007/7/26-27 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47440 Activity:nil
7/26    at least it wasn't black people this time
2007/7/16-17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47304 Activity:nil
7/16    Are all German women this distracting German John?
        \- E_ZU_SEXY_FUR_DEN_BUS
2007/7/9-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47237 Activity:low 50%like:47248
7/9     Heil German John! Do all German's have smelly feet?
        \- NED >> GER [or <<, depending on your perspective] ...
2007/7/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47159 Activity:nil
7/3     Landlock country Switzerland won yachting's most prestigious race.
        \- assuming this is in earnest, "swiss" team in this sense only
           means that is where the syndicate money came from. the crew is a
           1/3 from NZ and about 10% swiss.
        \_ Yatching?
           \_ Typo.  Should be yachting.  -- OP
2007/6/20-24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47027 Activity:nil
6/12    Sicko:  funny stuff.  watch it.  learn French.
        move to France before you get old.
        \_ Well, sure if you want to die in the next heat wave.
           \_ At least they saved the salmon.
2007/6/7-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:46886 Activity:moderate
6/7     "For God's Sake, Please Stop the Aid!" -Keynesian economist
        \_ Sounds like instead of sending them a bunch of crap, what we
           need to do is actually buy stuff from them. Subsidize buying
           stuff from them instead of subsidizing our own farmers.
           And/or directly employ them to improve their own roads etc.
           Although buying food from them would be Bad. Hmm maybe he's
           right and we shouldn't do anything except maybe set up
           schools (the teaching industry is something they could
           take over later).
           \_ We should send them MS Office licenses.
              \_ Oh yeah they'll be lining up at the trucks for those!
           \_ The problem is that so many Africans are working in
              industries like farming. They need to industrialize. More
              investment in Africa would help. Your idea of building
              infrastructure is a good one. However, I think the West
              would rather give Africa its leftovers than cold hard cash.
              It's easy to donate your old bicycle and three pairs of dress
              shoes you never wear anymore. Doing more than giving our
              castoffs away would require real work on the part of the
              West *and* Africans.
              \_ Cash just vanishes into various higher ups bank accounts.
                 \_ I am not suggesting cash be given as a gift, but that
                    cash be invested rather than goods given.
                    \_ Investing in most african countries is silly unless
                       you are a huge company willing to spent a large amount
                       of money on protection and bribes.  And then you are
                       part of the problem.
                       \_ So you think that, say, Ford building a plant in
                          Africa is unthinkable? Why would you say that?
              \_ Maybe, instead of industrializing, they could simply skip
                 to the part where they have nothing but services and
                 financial industries like we do?
        \_ Take a look at http://kiva.org.  It's a microfinance site that enables
           people to chip in on making loans to people in third world
           countries.  The money goes from kiva to a local microfinance
           company to the borrower.                     --alawrenc
           \_ I've lent +$400 via Kiva, but it seems like a lot of their
              current businesses is moving toward just lower interest rate
              current businesses are moving toward just lower interest rate
              working capital rather than development capital. i.e. Instead
              of "I want to buy a new oven for my bakery so I can produce
              2n loves of bread" it's more like "I want to borrow $500 at
              10% instead at a higher interest locally, so when I sell the
              good for a 20% gain, I make a greater return ... then 6-12mos
              later, I'll do the exact same thing." Whereas the guy with the
              bigger bakery is now off and running with an expanded business.
              There used to be plenty of people looking for of small amount
              like $250 for soem kind of "tool"/means of production ...
              barber chair, seeds, revenue producing construction ... now a
              huge number are for higher amounts just to buy stock.
              \_ This is an interesting one:
        \_ We could certainly do more in combatting AIDS and malaria, which
           would have lots of ancillary benefits, as well as improving the
           standard of living of millions of Africans. I am not so sure that
           cutting off all food aid to famine victims is the right answer, but
           it certainly should be controlled better, so that it does not all
           end up in the pocket of corrupt rulers.
2007/6/1-5 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46834 Activity:nil
2007/5/25-28 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46752 Activity:nil
5/25    "There is little available evidence that the United States has more
        relative mobility than other advanced nations. If anything, the data
        seem to suggest the opposite. Using the relationship between parents'
        and children's incomes as an indicator of relative mobility, data show
        that a number of countries, including Denmark, Norway, Finland, Canada,
        Sweden, Germany, and France have more relative mobility than does the
        United States."
        \_ After unions and WWII, manufacturing jobs overpaid for low-skill work.
           Now globalization is letting anyone else with the same set of skills
           do those jobs, for relatively less in wages (though well paid in their home
           country.) Getting an education and a job in industries that are America's
           strengths is the path to prosperity. Cutting student loan subsidies was
           a huge mistake.
2007/5/9-14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46574 Activity:nil
5/9     "France will be by the side of the oppressed of the world. This is the
        message of France; this is the identity of France; this is the history
        of France." --Sarkozy
        Apparently he doesn't know much French history.
        \_ There was that whole Bastille thing...
           \_ But that whole colonialism thing.... ya know, the Algerians
              might have something to say about the history of France and
              the oppressed.
              \_ Why do you hate France? :-)
              \_ Not to mention Vietnam
        \_ American politicians say the same kinds of things about the US.
2007/5/7-9 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46549 Activity:kinda low
5/7     730 Cars burned in France b/c Sarkozy won:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/28kczw (nytimes.com)
        \_ Pictures of the riots:
        \_ typical cry baby liberals
        \_ Told you the Left is violent. :-)
        \_ that's why we need guns, to keep the psycho left in check
        \_ Cheese eating surrender ... oh.
        \_ I wonder what the carbon footprint of 730 burning cars is
           \_ Clearly we need greener riots.
2007/4/27-5/1 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Science, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:46465 Activity:nil
4/27    Commentary on Aristole found in the Archimedes Palimpsest:
2007/4/4-7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46189 Activity:low
4/4     Britian gets its soldiers back through good old fashioned negotiation.
        \_ That and the Iranian Easter/Passover Bunny. (I agree with Cole, but
           feel it's necessary to point out that Ahmadinejad almost certainly
           did this to preserve/gain face. Mission accomplished.)
           \_ And to test the resolve of the UK.  After they tested Israel last
        \_ I wonder what the British gave up in return for their navy people.
           Negotiations are rarely, "Give us our people back and we'll give you
           nothing", "Oh, ok, here they are, sorry about that".
           \_ Cole thinks this was part of an internal struggle between
              Khameini and the higly unpopular Ahmadinejad.
        \_ Negotiation is for pussies. England should have followed Bush's
           lead and declared war.
           \_ And the very fact that we didn't even escalate shows you how
              badly stretched our forces are right now.
2007/3/30-4/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46158 Activity:kinda low
3/30    Oh yeah, that was definitely written by an English-speaker:
        \_ "To British People"
        \_ You never know, she might have gone to public school...
           \_ William Shatner does the best cover of this.
           \_ Heh, you are aware of the difference in meaning for the
              term "public school" between Britian and England?
              \_ I guess not, what is the difference between a public school
                 in Britian and one in England?
              term "public school" between Britian and America?
              \_ I am now.  Looked it up.
        \_ Reminds me of the opening paragraph of "Family Romance."
2007/3/28-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46133 Activity:nil
3/28    U.S. versions of weekly news magazines have dumbed down covers
        \_ I'm already happy to see that they didn't substitute an Afghanistan
           conflict cover with an Anna Nicole Smith cover.  Not that I'm not
           obsessed with Smith, but I don't want to see top-story coverage of
           her in magazines like Time and Newsweek.
2007/3/28-31 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:46130 Activity:low
3/28    First good graphic I've seen of the British/Iranian incident
        \_ bigger images
           \_ Ooh! Thanks. -op
           \_ How is the picture of a GPS, without date/time stamp,
              going to prove it? Does the British troops know in
              advance the dispute is going to happen, and took out
              their digital camera, with their consumer Garmin gps,
              and took a picture of the coordinate screen, while
              bording the merchant ship? The data can be EASILY faked
              \_ gee, maybe it's standard procedure to document the
                 GPS location of a ship you're going to board.  And you
                 think the Iranian claim, which they changed, is more
                 plausible?  -tom
              \_ The co-ordinates were confirmed by the Indian merchant ship.
                 (At least that's what the Brits said.)
              \_ Flat out without reading the article (it's a blog so who
                 cares?) I'd take the word of the British over the word of the
                 Iranians who made it quite clear they took them as a hostage
                 swap for their thugs the US captured in Iraq.  Unfortunately
                 for the British they have so gutted their military they're
                 in no position to make any threats the Iranians could take
                 seriously.  This is going to be another Jimmy Carter Hostage
                 Crisis situation but for Tony Blair and his successor(s).
                 \_ They've still got the Bomb!  I mean, we're talking
                    two or three million dead, TOPS!  Depending on the breaks.
                    \_ Unless they see the big board.
2007/3/14-15 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45964 Activity:nil
3/14    Heil German John! Are all German senior citizens so courageous?
2007/2/22-26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45791 Activity:nil
2/22    "Russians, British meet over spy death"
        What's the point for the Brits to work with Russian investigators if
        they think the Russian govt itself is involved?
        \_ Apply pressure and hope they trip up.
        \_ There's no point.  Nothing will come of it.  It's just cold war
           stuff at a lower than cold war levels.
2007/2/21-23 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45787 Activity:high
2/21    What is the correct pronunciation for "le boeuf sur let toit"?
        Is it "le buu sir ley tuahh?" Am I close?
        \_ Yup, that's almost exactly right.  The f in boeuf isn't
           silent, though.  (Did you mean "le boeuf sur le toit"?)
        \_ Yup, that's almost exactly right.  You do pronounce the f
           in boeuf, though.  (Did you mean "le boeuf sur le toit"?)
           \_ Oh yeah, typo. Thanks for your help! BTW what's the best
              way to learn basic French so that I don't seem like an
              idiot when I order food?
              \- taking a french class to deal with haricots verts is silly.
                 there are a couple of mnemonics, like the "CaReFuL" rule ...
                 CRFL are the final consonants which are usually pronounced.
                 [boeuf, blanc, pinot noir] for lots of french words there
                 are english approximations which are good enough ... we
                 dont say France, Nicaragua, Mexico the way the natives
                 do. you dont want to do something egregious like say
                 "chab-liss" whih the "ch" like "chicken" but anything close
                 to "shub-lee" should be good enough. if i wanted chantilly
                 cream on something, saying it the native way while speaking
                 english would seem pretentious to me. fois gras,
                 [http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Chantilly (click to hear)]
                 chateauneuf du pape, sauvignon blanc ... i'd just say them
                 they way you'ld expect to say them. the final consonant
                 rule is good to know, but beyond that, who cares if you
                 get the notorious french "r" correct? how often do you need
                 to ask for directions to Reims? If you dont know how to
                 say something or what something is, just ask. i recommend
                 the coquilles st jacques. --psb
                 the coquilles st jacques.
                 BTW, somewhat ironically (i have terrible spoken french)
                 the only word i've been corrected on by a waitperson in
                 the US was "darjeeling". i think the person correcting me
                 felt kinda stupid after i asked him "have you been there?"
                 and took another look at me. i do have a funny story about
                 ordering some "viande" up on montmartre, but it doesnt
                 "translate" into the motd well. oh at a bistro in the 8e
                 this dood thought i asked for "un coke, monsieur" when i
                 asked for a "croque monsiuer" [ham and cheese] but french
                 friends say he was probably just being an ass. --psb
              \_ Take a beginning French class at a community college.
                 \_ Every day when I open a newspaper and look and the world's
                    economic trends, every year when the new demographic trends
                    of the U.S. come out, every time I walk down the street
                    and hear a language that isn't English I think "Gee I sure
                    wish I knew more French!  Screw all those crap languages
                    like Mandarin, Spanish, Arabic, and Russian, I'm going to
                    study the Language of Tomorrow, the Language of Progress...
                    French!"  'Cause remember, the best reason to learn a
                    language isn't to get a better job, meet interesting people,
                    travel the world, order food at a good(asian) restaurant,
                    or get laid--the purpose of learning a language is to
                    impress culture snob nerds on the motd.
                    \_ The "get laid" aspect is still applicable to a community
                       college French class. So is the travelling/people aspect
                       unless you hate France and the other French speaking
                       places which is more than most think (but most of which
                       aren't economically important). Maybe they already know
                       Spanish etc anyway. In reality most of us don't need to
                       know anything but English.
                       If you just want to get some basic language exposure the
                       Pimsleur audio lessons are helpful. But then you don't
                       interact with community college chicks.
                    \_ As someone who spent almost 1/2 of his K-12 schooling
                       learning French, I completely agree that it is not a
                       particularly useful language. The languages you name
                       would be far more useful, but would in no way help OP
                       accomplish his objective of learning proper French
                       BTW, practicality is not the only reason to learn a
                       new language. Otherwise, why learn Greek, Latin or
                       Sanskrit? The opportunity to read Homer, Ovid or
                       Valmiki in the original language can be considered
                       "priceless," to borrow a term.
                       \- i thought this was "priceless":
                             ...At the Vatican, bishops appointments are still
                             written on papyrus in  Latin as are letters of
                             congratulations   from  the  pope,   but  many
                             bishops  and cardinals  write back  asking for
                          "Dona nobis translation" --psb
        \_ It always sounded more like: "Number 17 please," to me...
2007/2/13-15 [Recreation/Pets, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45733 Activity:nil
2/13    "Dead pets give birth to diamond ring"
        Yew.  Is she sick?
        \_ Is that worse than keeping the ashes on your mantle?
        \_ It beats having blood on your hands.
2007/2/13-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45726 Activity:low
2/12    GKEILLOR delivers a beatdown to BHLEVY ... he pretty much shoves
        BHL's head up his ass:
        The last line is pretty funny.
        In the "with friends like these" dept, CHITCHENS follows up
        here: http://www.slate.com/id/2136056
        \_ Wow, Hitchens might have had something intelligent to say there,
           but he's done a pretty good job of covering it up.
           \-i havent read the daniel pearl book by BHL but that might have
             been a reasonable point about BHL's "seriousness" but of course
             CH was largely interested in just his faux-'mercun bloviation.
        \_ These projects always have a touch of orientalism about them
           that makes them intolerable, but GKEILLOR's response decends
           unnecessarily into the same territory: "As always with French
           writers, Le'vy is short on the facts..." I'm sure the book is
           crap, but do we need to take on the entire history of French
           lit here?
2007/2/6-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45671 Activity:kinda low 60%like:45668
2/7     Christ political discussions on the motd are fucking stupid.
        Chrsit the person who keeps deleting this has self-esteem issues. -dans
        \_ Cursing and insulting people aren't exactly brilliant.
        \_ How about the guy who keeps deleting this?  "Cursing and
           insulting people isn't exactly intelligent behaviour either."
           \_ Don't know who's deleting that, it's the first I've seen of it
              since someone keeps wiping the thread.  Now that that's out of
              the way, I'd actually dispute your statement.  I dare you to
              call British Parliamentary debate unintelligent. -dans
              \_ British Parliamentary debate is unintelligent.  The glove is
              \_ Is there a BBC-SPAN I could watch to get an idea of how
                 intelligent British Parliamentary debates are?  I know
                 US congressional debates can be downright idiotic.
                 \- british and canadian parliament are shown on channel 2x
                    in sf. look for a name like "prime minister's question
                    time". it can be a real hoot [unless you're dealing with
                    say john major]. but it helps to have a sense of
                    whats going on in british politics because a lot of
                    it s about domestic stuff.
        \_ I really wish we could have adult conversations about politics. I
           think it's one of the things that's making this country harder to
           work together--the tendency to simply yell at each other instead of
           discussing things as grownups. -emarkp
           \_ I don't think this is a question of adult conversation vs.
              juvenile conversation.  I think the real issue is that many
              people believe that stating a bunch of facts in support of one
              side of an argument is all that is necessary to conduct half
              of a debate, and, further, the same individuals believe that if
              two people do this, a debate has taken place. -dans
              \_ Possibly. When I post an article without comment, it typically
                 is because I agree with it and am curious what others think.
                 The response is almost always simple ridicule (since I'm
                 non-left), and I decide a discussion simply can't happen.
                 \_ Are you familiar with the definition of insanity?
                    \_ Ah yes, that colloquialism.  Since the results aren't
                       the same every time, I don't see how it applies. -emarkp
                 \_ Which is precisely my point about the discussions being
                    fucking stupid.  With my apologies to Coleridge,
                    Flamebait, Flamebait, every where,
                    Nor any bite to eat. -dans
        \_ Someone must really hate this thread.  It keeps getting deleted.
           What a wanker. -dans
2007/2/3-6 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45646 Activity:nil
2/3     Ancient Greek religion makes a comeback in Greece:
2007/1/23-28 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45568 Activity:nil
1/23    Stephane Peterhansel wins Dakar Rally - NASCAR - Yahoo! Sports:
        5411 miles in 46 hrs.  That's 118mph average.  How can someone drive
        118mph average for 46 hrs, off road?
2007/1/21-28 [Health, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Media] UID:45563 Activity:nil
1/21    Blood Diamond, awesome movie. Beautiful sceneries of Africa and
        Europe in the background. It all makes it worth it to watch it
        on the big screen. If Leonardo weren't in it I'd give it an A+.
2006/12/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45495 Activity:nil
12/26   http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/26/news/military.php
        "It's the French Foreign Legion for me!"
2006/11/12 [Computer/SW/P2P, Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45332 Activity:nil
11/12   Anyone know of a way to watch the rights restricted content on the
        BBC' s Torchwood website. (UK only). The episodes that area already on
        BitTorrent are HIGHLY  reccomended but definitely not for the kiddies.
        Think of X-files and CSI crossed with a healthy dose of Sopranos and
        you will get my drift. With lots and lots of DR Who tie-ins along with
        some really really good eye candy.
2006/11/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45327 Activity:high
11/11   Rummy, Gonzales and Tenant might be sued for "war crimes" in
        \_ How can an American be sued in another country?
           \_ The same way someone can be tried in the US for crimes
              they committed while outside the country (Noriega.)  Some
              countries have weird laws--I think Belgium has or had one
              of these "good luck with enforcing it" statutes that allowed
              their prosecuters to go after anyone for some kinds of crimes
              against humanity committed anywhere else.  -John
           \_ Germany claims to have "Universal Jurisdiction" over war
              crimes. If found guilty, one cannot travel to Germany
              w/o the potential of being arrested on the basis of that
              conviction. The same may be true of countries that have
              an extradition agreement w/ Germany wrt this type of
              crime. Mostly this is symbolic.
              <rant>A conviction will make the Euro-peons feel good
              about themselves and will take their minds of the fact
              that the moors are in the process of recovering what
                       \- moops
              they lost and taking more ground.</rant>
2006/11/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45225 Activity:nil
11/7    Chicago man sets himself on fire in protest of You Know What:
        his self written obituary:
        his 'mission statement':
2006/11/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:45147 Activity:kinda low
11/3    "Gore to advise British on global warming"
        Open this page in a tabbed window in Firefox 1.5x, then check out the
        tab to see the hidden message.
        \_ Just tell us what it is. Why would I have 1.5x when 2.0 is out?
           \_ I have no idea how tabs in 2.0 look like.  In my, the
              tab reads "Gore to advise British on global war...".
              \_ You don't have nearly enough tabs.  Mine says "Gore..."
                 \_ I only have two tabs, so my tabs are of the default width.
              \_ Oh, I guess I'm too slow today. It does the same in 2.0.
                 Btw get 2.0. But the new tab close buttons are stupid. So
                 set browser.tabs.closeButtons to 3 in about:config. The
                 new buttons require you to hunt for them instead of being
                 fixed in the corner, besides being redundant (middle click
                 closes the tab). Basic UI mistake.
2006/11/3 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45143 Activity:nil
11/3    "Gore to advise British on global warming"
        The funny thing is: I used a tabbed window in Firefox to open this
        page a few days ago, then forgot to close it.  Today when I brought
        up the window again, I saw the tab displaying "Gore to advise British
        on global war..." and I thought "oh no".
2006/11/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45098 Activity:nil
11/2    Top US general says Rumsfeld is inspired by God  http://csua.org/u/hcw
        Holy fuck.  (literally)
        \_ we need a new JCS chair, not really for the God comment, but for
           the praise of Rummy
        \_ '"He leads in a way that the good Lord tells him is best for
            our country," said Marine General Peter Pace, chairman of
            the Joint Chiefs of Staff.'
            I always figured Rummy hears voices in his head.
2006/10/29-11/1 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:45029 Activity:moderate
10/29   Mark Steyn op/ed in the Chicago Sun Times.
           The invaluable Brussels Journal recently translated an interview
           with the writer Oscar van den Boogaard from the Belgian paper De
           Standaard. A Dutch gay "humanist" (which is pretty much the
           trifecta of Eurocool), van den Boogaard was reflecting on the
           accelerating Islamification of the Continent and concluding that
           the jig was up for the Europe he loved. "I am not a warrior, but
           who is?" he shrugged. "I have never learned to fight for my
           freedom. I was only good at enjoying it."
                \_ Yay I'm eurocool!
        Just something to think about.
        \_ I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I believe that the suspension
           of habeous corpus is a life-and-death issue for this republic.
           \_ Which may be true but isn't at all what OvdB is talking about.
              Do you believe whole heartedly with him that the accelerating
              Islamificiation of Europe is destroying it as we speak?
              \_ No, I agree with the op's assertion that the quote, sans
                 context, is something to think about.
                 \_ Ok, then you totally missed the point because context
                    is everything.  Without context the quote floats out in
                    meaningless space.  Do you really believe that there is no
                    Islamification process taking place in Europe now or do you
                    believe it will not end Mr. OvdB's freedom as he knows it?
                    And btw, replying by misdirection is thread jacking and
                    somewhat rude since you didn't agree at all with the real
                    point being made.  Please make your own thread if you
                    want to talk about the US and Bush bashing.  --op
                    \_ Well, now, you didn't actually seem to have a point
                       before. If you wanted this to be a thread about the
                       "islamification" of Europe, perhaps you should have
                       included explicating text to that effect. Instead, you
                       gave us a shotgun splatter or both "islamification" and
                       a quote that seemed to be aimed at galvanizing geeks
                       sitting on their asses. Really, if you're not going to
                       be clear in what you want to talk about, how do expect
                       anyone to take you seriously? In regards to the
                        \_ <sarcasm> Hmmm, multi-line post about
                           Islamification.  No mention of US or Bush.
                           Clearly, I was unclear and I can now see how you
                           thought I was talking about Bush and the US and not
                           Europe and Islamification.  </sarcasm>
                           \_ I didn't. I thought you were talking about
                              learning to fight for your freedom, hence my
                              declaration that I agree that we must fight for
                              for our freedom against its enemies, like Bush.
                              \_ I was but in a European/Islamic context.  I
                                 read+hear enough about this country's
                                 problems which are serious but I don't believe
                                 rise to the level of what I see going on in
                                 Europe.  If Europe really does fall and turn
                                 into a part of some Greater Caliphate then
                                 our current problems and trends will look
                                 trivial in comparison.
                                 \_ And if we let the Jews own property,
                                    they'll turn all good Christians into their
                                    slaves and drink the blood of Christian
                                    babies. Alarmist overreactions are often
                                    used to solidify nationalist support and
                                    ostracize/marginalize foreign populations.
                                    The much more likely outcome of Muslim
                                    immigration to the EU is secularization
                                    of Islam. How we handle this integration
                                    and assimilation will determine how much of
                                    stake the next generation of Islamo-Euro-
                                    peans feel they have in the status quo.
                                    Cf. the riots in Paris which have nothing
                                    to do with Islam and everything to do with
                                    economic depression in the ethnic slums.
                                    \_ Hopefully you can see the difference
                                       between the racism inflicted on other
                                       people and the demographic trends in
                                       Europe going on right now shifting
                                       towards people who are anti-Western and
                                       have no concept of freedom as we know
                                       it in the West.  Blood libels against
                                       Jews are not the same as the real world
                                       events you can read about in newspapers
                                       every day.  But I'm sure you knew that.
                                       \_ Please show me evidence of these
                                          demographic trends you speak of.
                                          \_ Try this.  It even attempts to
                                             tell us that all of this is a-ok.
                                             I thought you might appreciate a
                                             link of this nature instead of
                                             the doom n gloom link I more
                                             easily could have provided:
                                             \_ Thank you. I do indeed
                                                appreciate your effort here.
                                                This is an interesting article
                                                and certainly raises some
                                                issues. However, I still don't
                                                see a trend toward anti-
                                                Western populations with no
                                                concept of freedom as we know
                                                it in the West; in fact, I see
                                                a trend toward people who are
                                                even more painfully aware of
                                                how precious our (now their)
                                                freedoms are.
                                                \_ This doesn't directly talk
                                                   of demogph trends but it
                                                   does cover several issues
                                                   more broadly and is perhaps
                                                   more interesting than some
                                                   of the charts I found
                                                   \_ Let's be blunt: any
                                                      crimes against another
                                                      person (or illegal
                                                      possession of explosives
                                                      or weapons) should
                                                      certainly be dealt with
                                                      immediately and with the
                                                      full weight of the law.
                                                      That goes for anyone,
                                                      native or immigrant. That
                                                      said, immigrant !=
                                                      terrorist or criminal.
                                    \_ Islam has never successfully been
                                       secularized (even Turkey is not what
                                       we in the West would call secular).
                                       The experience of India under the yoke
                                       of Islam is illustrative. If not for
                                       the British, India would have been
                                       \_ India under Islamic rule is history,
                                          not current events. You'd be better
                                          off pointing to the Islamic Rev. in
                                          Iran. However, find me a country that
                                          has turned to Sharia as a result of
                                          \_ I do not know of a country that
                                             has turned to Sharia b/c of
                                             immigration BUT this is largely
                                             because population did not have
                                             a great degree of mobility till
                                             the 2d 1/2 of the 20th century.
                                             Slower mobility in the past ment
                                             that there was greater time for
                                             indigenous culture to assimilate
                                             and modify the immigrant culture.
                                             This is no longer true and to
                                             act on the assumption that it
                                             remains true risks the future of
                                             [ The problem is futher compounded
                                               by the falling birth rate in
                                               Europe, outside of Islamic
                                               immigrants ]
                                             \_ I'm not seeing evidence that
                                                immigrants to Europe or the
                                                US are causing cultural or
                                                legislative changes. The charge
                                                of creeping Islamification
                                                still rings of alarmism. What
                                                changes do you see that alarm
                                                you, and how are these changes
                                                different from the assimilation
                                                of other immigrant populations?
                                 \_ Just as Europe had to be defended against
                                    Soviet communism, despite its reluctance
                                    to defend itself, Europe must be defended
                                    against Islamism. The current administra-
                                    tion, unfortunately, makes this difficult
                                    b/c it is unable or unwilling to understand
                                    the European mind and work w/ it. [ I do
                                    not mean to suggest that a Democratic
                                    administration would be more effective, I
                                    think that neither party, currently, has
                                    leaders who would be able to effectively
                                    help Europe and thereby help America w/
                                    this particular problem. ]
                       "islamification" of Europe, I believe that the effect is
                       being exaggerated and exploited by national front types
                       to further an agenda of immigrant bashing. If we let
                       these reactionaries determine policy, all foreigners
                       will end up in ghettos and there will be regularly
                       scheduled pogroms to keep them in line.
                       \_ So you think OvdB is a national front ultra
                          nationalist type?  Or he's been suckered in by them?
                          He is certainly not a national frontist.
                          \_ I'm not sure what his deal is. That having been
                             said, even self-described Dutch gay humanists are
                             not immune to overreactions.
              \_ Just this morning I read of a Muslim teacher in the UK who
                 was fighting for her "right" to wear a veil in the classroom.
                 This, to me, is sufficient illustration of Islamification
                 subverting and destroying Europe and European ideas.
                 Europe has long embraced an admirable attitude of tolerance
                 for all manner of ideas. But, this same attitude has been and
                 is being used against Europe by the Islamists in order to
                 import all manners of practices directly opposed to the
                 fundamental values of liberty and equality. Is it really
                 equality and choice that the above mentioned teacher is fighting
                 for? Or is she merely a pawn in some larger game?
                 The root of the problem is that most European's have accepted,
                 as the philosophical basis for their tolerance, the proposition
                 that all belief systems are equally valid and that any distaste
                 for alternate systems is based, not on any inherent flaw in
                 that system, but rather in our own prejudices and biases. "If
                 only we understood them better, there would be no problem" is
                 the problem. By thinking of the problem as one from w/in
                 instead of one from w/o the revolution has not been televised.
                 I agree w/ above poster, that some national front types have,
                 in the past, exaggerated the effect of the Islamification of
                 Europe for purposes other than the protection of Europe's
                        Europe has long embraced an admirable attitude of
                 tolerance for all manner of ideas. But, this same attitude
                 has been and is being used against Europe by the Islamists
                 in order to import all manners of practices directly opposed
                 to the fundamental values of liberty and equality. Is it
                 really equality and choice that the above mentioned teacher
                 is fighting for? Or is she merely a pawn in some larger game?
                        The root of the problem is that most European's have
                        The root of the problem is that many European's have
                                               the panda says "NO!"_/
                 accepted, as the philosophical basis for their tolerance, the
                 proposition that all belief systems are equally valid and that
                 any distaste for alternate systems is based, not on inherent
                 flaws in that other system, but rather in our own prejudices
                 and biases. "If only we understood them better, there would be
                 no problem" is the problem. By thinking of the problem as one
                 from w/in instead of one from w/o the revolution has not been
                 \_ I don't know based on what you make this assertion, but
                    it's not accurate.  Replace "most" with "many" and you
                    have something there.  The success of Pim Fortuyn in
                    Holland, the recent Swiss immigration referenda, and
                    various other restrictive laws/moves against what is
                    essentially islamification prove this nicely.  The main
                    problem is that political groups most active against the
                    rise of islamist influence have a strong association with
                    neo-fascist, xenophobic extremist groups (i.e. Le Pen,
                    Zhirinovsky, NPD, NPB, Liga Norte, etc) and those more
                    centrist groups advocating strong curbs on islamism are
                    easily painted by their opponents as equally extreme.  Add
                    to this a historical reluctance to focus on one particular
                    group (for obvious reasons) and you have a problem.  -John
                    \_ Okay, I think I'm mostly in agreement w/ you. I have
                       changed "most" to "many."  My main concern is that
                       either not enough Europeans see the potential problem
                       or that they are too afraid (b/c they would be singled
                       as bigots by other Europeans and targeted by Islamists)
                       to take action. It may also be that many Europeans are
                       to used to the "good life" to take a stand.
                       \_ Take a stand on what exactly? What do you want them
                          to do?
                          \_ Immigration reform, less tolerance for Sharia
                             and Islamic practices, such as forcing women
                             to wear veils and not allowing them to finish
                             schooling, would be good starting points.
                             Also dealing w/ problems such as the Paris riots
                             using necessary force, rather than making stmts
                             that we feel your pain and will do everything
                             we can to make you happy. Appeasement never works,
                             but Europe seems to have forgotten that lesson.
                             \_ Immigration reform is happening, gradually,
                                in a lot of countries in Europe.  I sense that
                                there is a shrinking tolerance for bullshit
                                among voters; Turkey & its impending EU
                                membership, Theo van Gogh, the riots in
                                France and other factors are bringing this
                                sort of thing to a head.  Regardless of
                                whether you support or oppose US foreign
                                policy, it has at least been presented in a
                                very in-your-face manner, which made life
                                _very_ difficult for people in Europe trying
                                to call bullshit on islamists.  -John
                                \_ How did an open US foreign policy make it
                                   had for Europeans to call BS on Islamists?
                                   \_ Whether it's right or wrong, it's been
                                      presented in a very confrontational,
                                      unilateral manner since 2001.  This
                                      removed a lot of sympathy for the US and
                                      tainted anyone agreeing even with the\
                                      good parts of the "war on terror" with
                                      a kind of "American stooge" label, thus
                                      weakening the position of those who
                                      support laying down the whoopass on the
                                      real bad guys.  No it's not rational,
                                      but maybe you see the connection.  The
                                      militant islamists enjoying the relative
                                      freedom of speech & movement they get in
                                      Europe should be countered with total
                                      and consistent determination, with no
                                      room for mediocre bush-league shit like
                                      Iraq.  -John
                             \_ Appeasement of what? They're rioting because
                                they have no jobs and no prospects, and because
                                the cops are running in people simply for
                                being young and non-caucasian. Sounds like the
                                Watts riots to me. The solution there? More
                                economic development so that people have a
                                greater stake in the preservation of the status
                                quo. Also, while I agree that religion should
                                not be an excuse to pull kids out of school,
                                you cannot outlaw burqas if people _want_ to
                                wear them.
                                \_ I do not accept that the reason these
                                   people do not have jobs is because of
                                   failing on the part of the European
                                   people. There are sufficient opportunities
                                   in Europe for people who are willing to
                                   become educated and work hard to build
                                   a life. More economic development is not
                                   the answer to a problem that is not born
                                   from poverty w/o opportunity.
                                   The problem is one of attitude, these
                                   people want to live in Europe, but not
                                   a Europe based on European ideals.
                                   from poverty w/o opportunity. The problem
                                   is one of attitude; these people want to
                                   live in Europe, but not a Europe based on
                                   European ideals.
                                        Re police running in kids for not
                                   being "white," you know the police don't
                                   really run in Indian or Asian kids (even
                                   here in Klan country). I wonder why that
                                   is? Maybe it is b/c we want to actually
                                   become contributing members of society
                                   and try to adapt to our new homes, rather
                                        I also disagree re Burquas. Even
                                   under US law (including Cohen), which is
                                   far more generous than European law, it
                                   is certainly possible to regulate when
                                   and where these garments may be worn.
                                   There are many contexts in which the gov.
                                   could ban the wearning of the garment (ex.
                                   Re police running in kids for not being
                                   "white," you know the police don't really
                                   run in Indian or Asian kids. I wonder
                                   why that is? Maybe it is b/c these kids
                                   want to actual become contributing members
                                   of society and try to adapt to their new
                                   homes, rather than trying to destroy them.
                                   I also disagree re Burquas. Even under US
                                   law (including Cohen), it is certainly
                                   possible to regulate when and where these
                                   garments may be worn.  There are many
                                   contexts in which the government could
                                   forbid the wearning of the garment (ex.
                                   public school teachers - reasonable time
                                   place manner restriction).
                                   \_ Please search through news reports for
                                      more information on the causes of
                                      economic disenfranchisment in Paris.
                                      The "they're poor because they're lazy"
                                      argument has been shown time and again to
                                      be specious in many countries. Also, it's
                                      not just Islamic immigrants who are
                                      having difficulty finding work in Paris.
                                      For comparison, I submit this op-ed
                                      piece from a BBC columnist comparing
                                      the Paris riots (and their roots) with
                                      the Brixton riots of '80s.
                                      As for
                                      burqas, I would like this debated before
                                      the courts, not just legislated. I can
                                      see the argument in favor of banning the
                                      burqa for public servants/teachers, but
                                      I want a very healthy, very public
                                      debate on it before we ban them. Let any
                                      action we take be based on our ideals
                                      and principles, not just our fear.
                                      Oh, and by the way, let me just state for
                                      the record that I will gladly repel, with
                                      arms, any armed religious coup. If any-
                                      one tries an Islamic (or Christian or
                                      Buddhist) revolution, then yes, it will
                                      then be time to fight.
                        I agree w/ above poster, that some national front types
                 have, in the past, exaggerated the effect of the Islamification
                 of Europe for purposes other than the protection of Europe's
                 freedom and liberty. But, I think that the problem is real and
                 cannot be dismissed as mere politics any more. To do so would
                 be to condemn Europe to the yoke of the Moors.
        \_ You misspelled his name, even though it's in the URL.
                 be to condemn Europe to the yoke of the Moors for a 2d time.
                 [ I thank formatd for its efforts, but I want the paragraphs
                   for readability ]
                 \_ Sorry for mushing your post.  I reformatted to bring the
                    length under 80 columns and didn't intend to squash your
                    paragraphs.  --formatd
                 \_ What the hell is a traditionalist muslim woman doing
                    \_ Unmarried muslim women often work as teachers at
                       girls schools in many Islamic countries; it is not
                       a "forbidden" occupation. But, even unmarried girls
                       must cover their faces, even while acting as teachers.
                       a "forbidden" occupation for a traditional muslim
2006/10/13-16 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:44816 Activity:moderate
10/13   Elephants cross the US-Mexico border w/ impunity:
        http://tinyurl.com/ykzp8o (brownsvilleherald.com)
        \_ Dirty illegals.  We should take away their welfare and health benefits.
        \_ Dirty illegals.  We should take away their welfare & health benefits.
        \_ Dirty illegals.  We should take away their welfare & health
        \_ Why do you hate elephants?
           \_ Why do you hate America?
              \_ I just hate American elephants.  The Asian and African ones
                 are ok by me.
                 \_ I find Asian elephants to be too small and inscrutable, and
                    prone to forming triads and building nuclear weapons.
                    African elephants are just too violent.  They are very fast
                    and strong, though.
                       \_ But what is up w/ those big ears? Are they using
                          them to eavesdrop on private domestic phone calls?
                    \_ But never the European ones.  So white and monocultural.
                       \_ The Jewish European elephants have really long snouts,
                          though.  And one they grab onto a peanut or banana
                          with that snout, they never, ever let go.
                       \_ The Jewish European elephants have really long
                          snouts, though.  And one they grab onto a peanut
                          or banana with that snout, they never, ever let go.
                          \_ They're all white to me.  --BAMN
2006/10/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44812 Activity:nil
10/13   British Army head receives overwhelming support from military
        http://csua.org/u/h71 (guardian.co.uk)
        One senior officer says chief's statements hurt morale
        http://csua.org/u/h73 (telegraph.co.uk)
        PM Blair says he agrees "with every word" ... of Army chief's follow-on
2006/10/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44793 Activity:nil
10/12   http://csua.org/u/h6k (dailymail.co.uk)
        Head of the British Army says "our presence in Iraq exacerbates" the
        "difficulties we are experiencing around the world", says should
        "get ourselves out sometime soon".  Also calls for UK soldiers to
        recover in military wards, and laments decline of "Judeo-Christian
        tradition" in UK and rise of Islamic extremism.
        \_ I love how he manages to blame (apparently secular) liberalism for
           the horrible state of British affairs.
        \_ so he wants the uk to go isolationist and pray to jesus?
2006/10/12-14 [Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:44788 Activity:kinda low
10/12   Why do numbers in some street addresses have so many digits?  There are
        only ten houses on the one-block dead-end street in Fremont that I live
        on, but the numbers start at 34000.  On the other hand, street numbers
        in the Bay Farm area in Alameda only have two or three digits.
        \_ IIRC, numbers don't repeat in a given "line", so if you find the
           next street before/after that cul-de-sac that's roughly in a line
           w/ it, the numbers will continue that way.  I have a similar deal.
           I'm on a relatively long st. w/ a 4 digit address, but the 10 house
           cul-de-sac around the corner is 5-digit, because it points the
           direction of the rest of the (fairly long) city.
        \_ some address numbering trivia.  There are a number of long streets
           running through Orange County which go through multiple cities,
           each with their own numbering scheme.  Usually, it's not a source
           of much confusion since most cities cooperate.  But there are/were
           small stretches (like < 6 blocks) in unincorporated areas of the
           county which are on the county numbering scheme -- usually 5 digits
           instead of the 4 digits that most cities use/used.  Yeah, that's
           fun trying to find an address -- 3340 3350 3360 27400 27420 3520 ...
           \_ In Florence (Italy), numbers run in disjoint blue (residential)
              and red (commercial) sequences.  So you can have 1 2 3 4 1 5
              6 2 7 3 4 8 and so on.  -tom
              \_ disjoint is not really the right word.
              \_ How do you tell which sequence it is from the address on an
                 envelop?  Are people required to write/print with red and blue
                 \_ Dunno, maybe they just do "R15" or something.  -tom
                    \- on an envelope or otherwise you write ###r if it is
                       "rosso". Stendahl's famous novel "The Red and the Black"
                       is about a fight between people with red and blue/black
                       addresses in Florence, which he wrote after having a
                       breakdown there trying to find the right address.
                       YMWTG(stendahl syndrome, florence).
           \_ All I gotta say is "Japanese Addressing Schemes" particularly
              say in Tokyo or Kyoto.  Street numbers are picked on totally
              an arbitrary basis many times -- family tradition, good luck,
              numerology, whatever.
2006/10/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44768 Activity:nil
10/11   According to a UK paper, the US consumes 58 billion hamburgers per
        year.  58,000 million / 300 million pop = 193 per capita!  No wonder
        we are a nation of gigantic fat asses ...
        \_ Um, I've had a grand total of maybe about 5 hamburgers in the last
           year....  Not doing my share?  --PM
        \_ I wonder who is eating my share? -vegetarian
           \_ I'm also a vegetarian, 193/person is "only" one every other day
              ... obviously for some this the default meal - op
              \_ Suckling infants need to start making up for their deficit.  I
                 call this number crap.
        \_ Hamburgers at McDonald's are pretty small and you need two for one
           meal.  That may have skewed the statistics.
           \_ I think you have pointed out part of the problem
2006/10/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44734 Activity:nil
10/9    France to ban public smoking:
        \_ Good. The one thing I couldn't stand in Paris was walking into
           any restaurant only to get a whif of everyone else's smoke.
        \_ Smoking ban in Italy reduces heart attacks in non-smokers exposed to
           second-hand smokes:
           \_ Um, hardly conclusive.
              \_ Your reasoning being ......
2006/10/5-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44701 Activity:high
10/5    I don't care about Michelle Malkin.  Or Reps assfucking
        pages.  or George Soros.  What I do care about is the administration
        getting torture techniques legalized.  What is really funny
        is they are modeled on stuff used by the russians, the khmer
        rouge, the real bad guys of the 20th century.  what gwbush
        forgets is those guys tortured people to get confessions,
        not to get real live intel that they could act on.  assholes.
        \_ Colin Powell learned this the hard way.  One of the "evidence"
           he presented in United Nation was "extracted" from some "terrorist"
           who later said he said that to stop the torture.
           America should of draw a hard lesson learned from French
           and its Algerian Revolution.  Once you start to torture and loose
           the moral high-ground, you loose legimacy on this struggle.
           \_ Surely you have a link to back this up--or maybe you're just
              blowing this out your ass.  Oh, and for all the mantra-chanting
              that torture doesn't work, we have proof that at least
              waterboarding does:
              9/21  In other torture news, ABC reporter Brian Ross reports that
              torture works.  Video clip: http://csua.org/u/gyd
              \_ You know what?  I don't care it works or not.  This is not
                 an episode of 24.  I live
                 in fucking UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.  The best
                 country in the WORLD.  Or so I thought.  Why the fuck
                 are we torturing people?  I'm going to quit my
                 job and devote my life to ANSWER or something, this makes
                 me so mad.
                 \_ You're right, this isn't 24.  If things go bad REAL PEOPLE
                    FUCKING DIE.  And so I want our gov't to use the tools that
                    work against these animals.
                    \_ Yes, first step is dehumanizing your opponent.  Then,
                       you can justify any degree of mistreatment for any
                       reason.  They do it to us, we do it to them.  You
                       filthy capitalist American infidel pig-dog!  You
                       deserve to die, BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.  You fucking
                       idiot, we must not become our enemy.
                       \_ We are not becoming our enemy.  We know that
                          waterboarding was used on top Al Qaeda people, not
                          necessarily on any random person.  Meanwhile, our
                          enemy CUTS THE HEADS OFF OUR PEOPLE IF THEY'RE
                                \_ To them, "our people" are filthy infidel
                                   Americans who deserve beheading.  To you,
                                   they are damn animals who deserve
                          CAPTURED.  You are apparently incapable of telling
                          the difference.
                          \_ So you're okay with indefinite detention on the
                             word of the executive?  Redefinition of what
                             constitutes torture on the same word?  As long
                             as we don't decapitate people, you're fine with
                             your government's actions?
                             \_ For a small number of people, indefinite
                                detention is okay.  And no, my threshold is
                                lower than decapitaction.  But it's higher than
                                \_ Then you're unamerican, undemocratic, and
                                   truly a danger to the future of our country.
                                \_ Do you understand what happens during
                                   waterboarding? Would you be willing to have
                                   it done to you in a reasonably safe
                                   environment in order to demonstrate its
                                   \_ Yes I understand.  I've talked with
                                      military guys who've gone through SERE
                                      training and were waterboarded.  I
                                      suspect you don't know what it is.  Hint:
                                      it's not putting someone's head
                                      \_ No. It's placing the client on his
                                         back with his head lower than his
                                         torso, then putting a plastic bag or
                                         other dam in place and then filling
                                         the reservoir around the client's
                                         with water. The water then fills the
                                         nose and upper respiratory tract,
                                         giving the immediate impression of
                                         drowning. A doctor is generally kept
                                         on hand to monitor the client's
                                         life signs and to ressucitate,
                                         through CPR and/or defib if the client
                                         somehow aspirates the water. If this
                                         is somehow something that you would
                                         not mind being applied to one of your
                                         loved ones without trial or reason
                                         other than goverment suspicion, then
                                         I propose that you try this first to
                                         to show us how it's not that bad.
                                         \_ Not how I heard it from someone who
                                            went through it.  No reservoir
                                            necessary, just a very wet cloth
                                            put over the face.  Your version
                                            sounds fine to me as well.
                                            \_ If this is somehow something
                                               that you would not mind being
                                               applied to one of your loved
                                               ones without trial or reason
                                               other than goverment suspicion,
                                               then I propose that you try
                                               this first to show us how it's
                          \_ The thing you fail to grasp is that without trials,
                             without due process, we aren't necessarily
                             torturing those evil beheading enemies of ours,
                             we're torturing innocent people.  This isn't a
                             hypothetical... it's already happened.
                          \_ The thing you fail to grasp is that without
                             trials, without due process, we aren't
                             necessarily torturing those evil beheading
                             enemies of ours, we're torturing innocent
                             people.  This isn't a hypothetical... it's
                             already happened.
                             \_ Eggs, omelettes...
                             \_ What you fail to understand is that
                                concepts of criminality (such as the
                                presumption of innocence) may not be
                                applicable to warfare. Due process is
                                generally not applicable to prisoners
                                of war. Anyway, there is something to
                                lighten the mood:
                                link:tinyurl.com/ejakx (comics.com)
              \_ I'm not watching an O'Reilley clip. Do you have another
                 source for this? Surely if it's ABC's Brian Ross you'll have
                 a non-video write-up somewhere? And no, I'm not stfw; it's
                 your point, you do the work.
                 \_ Is the O'Reilley clip inaccurate or wrong in some way or
                    is this just a rejection on personal grounds? -someone else
                    \_ BOR raises my blood pressure. That's a personal failing,
                       and I freely admit to it.
                       \_ Um, most of the clip is Brian Ross speaking.  It's
                          directly from his mouth.
                 \_ Never mind, I couldn't resist stfw anyway. Most results on
                    "brian ross torture" return right-wing sites pointing to
                    the BOR clip. Nowhere on the ABC site was there any
                    confirmation. Care to try again?
                    \_ Are you brain damaged?  You won't watch BOR even when
                       most of the clip is Brian Ross?  And BOR is expressing
                       some skepticism about anonymous sources?
                       \_ Ah, that's right, only brain damaged people would
                          want to avoid watching an interview clip from the
                          Factor. If Brian Ross thinks torture works, let him
                          say so on his ABC blog. Or, barring that, let him
                          say so on any other media outlet than BOR. I've
                          never considered BOR to be news, so why would I want
                          to get news from BOR? If I want opinion, sure, but
                          news? I mean, you don't go to the Daily Show for
                          news, right? (Though recent research suggests you
                          \_ But you're getting your news from BRIAN FUCKING
                             ROSS.  Just because he's talking to BOR, why do
                             you care?
                             \_ Because I'm getting my news from an
                                interview with Ross conducted by O'Reilly.
                                \_ So what?  You're hearing it from Ross'
                                   \_ It's been fun playing with you, but
                                      work (hunting through someone else's
                                      Perl spaghetti code) sounds like more
                                      fun. Bye.
                                      \_ Wow, touchy, no wonder your blood
                                         boils so easily.  --!ppp
           \_ "should've drawn?" "lose the moral high-ground?"
              It's a miracle you got "its" right, but it may have been an
              accident.  Seriously, I can look past "loose," but "should of"
              is just too far out there.
                \_ Bad grammar aside, I did not know that Powell's points
                   in his UN speech was a bunch of shit extracted from
                   a tortured suspect.  So any word on who the hell
                   in the Bush Administration or Heritage Foundation decided
                   one day that torturing people got us good intel?
                   \_ They just wanted to set a precedent on torture.
                      Before long we'll be torturing confessions out of
                      our own people.
                \_ Bad grammar or not, he's right on every point.
                   \_ Why do you care?  Youtube is a free, money losing
                      service.  They can do what they want.  Michelle Malkin
                      is an evil annoying ugly real life troll who lives
                      to bait people so she can issue self righteous
                      commentary, the entire world would be better off
                      if she would move to North Korea.
                      \_ Because she hasn't done anything to violate their
                         terms of service.  If they'd like to change their
                         terms to cover her, they're welcome to and then they
                         can apply and enforce that policy across the board.
                         \_ See below.
                            \_ And my reply to that below.
2006/10/4 [Politics/Domestic, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44659 Activity:nil
103/    http://reuters.myway.com/article/20061004/2006-10-04T005304Z_01_L03419567_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-GOOGLE-POLITICIANS-DC.html
        ... "unless you're in China".
2006/9/30-10/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44609 Activity:high
9/29    Is there any possibility of trying GWB as a war criminal?
        \_ In the US the only possibility of a politician being tried as a
           criminal is when you publicly sodomize an underaged girl, watch
           little boy porns, or when your intern sucks your dick.
        \_ In the US or in Europe? In the US, probably no chance,
           in Europe, probably very easy.
        \_ In Europe very difficult, as improbable as in the US.  In the
           countries whose governments officially call for that sort of
           stupidity, probably very easy, but then again it's usually
           posturing by two-bit thugs and tyrants.  -John
           \_ Difficult in Europe? Really? I thought the ICC had already
              received indictments against Bush, Blair, Tommy Franks, &c.
              under the Belgium universal jx provision.
              \_ It depends on what sort of trial you want.  If you just want
                 "a" trial, then go ahead and have one at the next CSUA
                 meeting.  If you're talking about a trial with the teeth to
                     \_ This would be fucking hilarious.
                 enforce it's decision, then not a chance in hell is any one in
                 the US government ever going to be tried.
              \_ Indictment != trial.  This is the same as Euro scandal rags
                 screaming that "you can sue ANYONE FOR ANYTHING in
                 America!!111"  -John
        \_ nope you can't.  You have to lose a war first.  Even if you lost
           a war, if the victims are not white, you have a very good chance
           get away with it.
           \_ Who are these war criminals who got away with it?  Can you name
              a few?  And no, dying in prison during your trial doesn't count
              as getting away with it.  Nor does taking poison in your bunker.
              \_ Emperor Hirohito of Japan, Shiro Ishii of Unit 731,
                 Prince Asaka Yasuhiko, the list can go on and on.
2006/9/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:44597 Activity:kinda low
9/28    Quiet, easily controlled Asian man favored for UN Secretary General,
        to replace previous uppity black leader
        \_ If you think a South Korean politician is "easily controlled,"
           you don't know much about politics.
           \_ i'm just saying the stereotype may be why he's favored
              \_ I doubt it.  I think it more reflects the rise of South
                 Korea in terms of political and economic influence over the
                 past few decades.  The negative stereotype you are referring
                 to is really only prevalent in America and Western Europe,
                 and they make up only a minority of the United Nations.
                 \_ Yeah, but it's 60% of the permanent setas in the Security
2006/9/26-27 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44534 Activity:moderate
9/25    What are some examples of modern governments that are still
        under monarchy?
        \_ Few modern governments are "under" monarchy--most (e.g. Holland,
           Norway, UK, Japan) have a figurehead who is the nominal head
           of state but mainly executes ceremonial duties (accepting the
           portfolio of the prime minister, that sort of thing.)  I don't
           know if you would count Kuwait, UAE, Thailand, Brunei, Morocco,
           or Jordan as "modern", but in the "Western" sense, there's
           Liechtenstein and Monaco.  Sure there's more, but I would 100%
           discount Saudi Arabia, Lesotho and Nepal at this point.   -John
           \_ You could've answered that in 1 line, not 8.
              \_ Thank you for your feedback, your opinion may be taken
                 into consideration.  -John
           \_ err... Nepal... how many of the royalties still alive now?
              \_ Also, recent developments in Nepal have invalidated their
                 monarchy status.
           \_ In the "Western" sense there's also Spain and Sweden.
           \_ Also in the West: Belgium, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Luxembourg,
              Monarco.  And let's not forget the State of the Vatican City
              whose absolute monarch is the Pope (although the absolute monarch
              is an elected monarch).
        \_ Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, you know, our democratic ally in
           the middle east.  UAE is a bit tricky, it's a kingdom with a
           a lot of Kings.
           \_ Also, Tonga. An example of how a modern monarchy can go wrong:
              \_ Yeah, entrusting your investments to your court jester
                 probably isn't the best thought out plan.
                 \_ Tonga went wrong because Edith Delgado, the Redwood City
                    teenager, single-handedly stemmed democratic reforms in
                    Tonga by killing the pro-democratic prince on US101.
                    http://www.csua.org/u/geo (http://www.matangitonga.to
                    \_ The incident certainly did nothing to help, but the
                       problems were prevalent in Tonga even before she
                       became the hand of fate.
                    \_ I'm sure she was thinknig that morning, "I'll get in the
                       car today and kill the pro-democratic prince of Tonga".
        \_ "I wish I could hear tell of a country that's out of kings."
            --Huckleberry Finn
        \_ Man will never be free until the last king is strangled
           with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
2006/9/21-25 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:44484 Activity:kinda low
9/21    US Health Care system gets a "D" from the fucking non-profit,
        non-partisan Commonwealth Fund
        \_ The report is flawed. It does not discuss the fucking most important
        \_ The report is flawed. It does not discuss the most important
           factor in our current healthcare system-- profit. Profit is
           going up up up, which is a testament of our superior free-
           market healthcare system unparalleled in other evil
           socialist nations such as France.
           \_ Right the fuck on!  --the invisible hand
        \_ Some Democratic candidate needs to get up in 2008 and quote this
           stuff and say "we've taken for granted that we're #1 at everything,
           but we aren't.  let's stop trying to improve other nations and fix
           but we aren't.  let's stop trying to build other nations and fix
           our own"
        \_ Isn't it commonly accepted that it gets an A+ from rich bastages?
           \_ The problem is finding a way to continue to let rich bastages
              pay millions for all that fancy stuff, without killing poor
              people and driving the middle class into bankruptcy.  If we
              do this, we'll be the only country that does--but why not try?
              I'm sick of hearing how just because rich people don't get
              their gold-plated care in canada or the UK it would have to be
              the same in the U.S.  So what if they can't do it?  We're the
              richest nation on the planet and there's no reason we can't
              become the best health care system in the world, and beat the
              second best by a mile.  Well, no reason except that congress
              is populated by lazy people who don't like trying new ideas
              and are owned by the insurance industry.
           \_ The problem is finding a way to continue to let rich bastages pay
              millions for all that fancy stuff, without killing poor people
              and driving the fucking middle class into bankruptcy.  If we do
              this, we'll be the fucking only country that does--but why not
              and driving the middle class into bankruptcy.  If we do
              this, we'll be the only country that does--but why not
              try?  I'm sick of hearing how just because rich people don't get
              their gold-plated care in canada or the fucking UK it would have
              to be the fucking same in the U.S.  So what if they can't do it?
              We're the richest nation on the fucking planet and there's no
              reason we can't become the fucking best health care system in the
              their gold-plated care in canada or the UK it would have
              to be the same in the U.S.  So what if they can't do it?
              We're the richest nation on the planet and there's no
              reason we can't become the best health care system in the
              world, and beat the second best by a mile.  Well, no reason
              except that congress is populated by lazy people who don't like
              trying new ideas and are owned by the fucking insurance industry.
              trying new ideas and are owned by the insurance industry.
              \_ I'll give you a reason we can't:  momentum.
                 16% of 2004 GDP is health care.
              \_ We're the richest nation on the planet as long as you don't
                 look at our massive debt.
              \_ We're the fucking richest nation on the planet as long as you
                 don't look at our massive debt.  We're the fucking biggest
                 debtor nation so technically that makes us the fucking poorest
              \_ We're the richest nation on the planet as long as you
                 don't look at our massive debt.  We're the biggest
                 debtor nation so technically that makes us the poorest
                 in some ways.
                 \_ 1) to whom do we owe our debt?  2) how much do we
                    give away in foreign aid?
                        \_ To the Chinese, Japense, Europeans, Middle East,
                           a quickly rising chunk ...
                           We are transferring about 1% of our assets to
                           foreigners every year thanks to the almost $1
                           trillion dollar trade deficit.  We give away
                           about $11 billion a year in foreign aid, a sum
                           dwarfed by our twin deficits, how is that relevant?
                           \_ So as long as we continue to grow the economy at
                              greater than 1%/year we're ok?
                              \- the money the govt spends on foreign aid
                                 is irrelevant to the us economy or the
                                 govt's budget. however, there are things
                                 interesting about how the us govt does
                                 choose to allocate that aid. note that
                                 about 1/3 of the budget it to two countries:
                                 israel and egypt. somewhere in the 5-10%
                                 range is essentially "the drug war".
                                 note also a bunch of this aid is tied to
                                 buying stuff back from the US. israel
                                 has a bunch of special things going on
                                 as well. so this by no means represents
                                 rice and wheat going to poor people or
                                 help building irrigation systems and
2006/9/19-22 [Computer/Companies/Google, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44448 Activity:nil
9/19    Google news aggregation may be in trouble:
        \_ no it isn't
           \_ yes it isn't
2006/9/19-22 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44445 Activity:nil
9/18    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060918/od_nm/china_warriors_dc_1
        Heil German John!
2006/9/15-19 [Transportation/Airplane, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44388 Activity:nil
9/15    Why can't I bring water to the airplane? Are they trying to
        prevent people making molotov cocktail?
        \_ They're trying to prevent binary liquid explosives coming on planes
           after the very formative "terror attempt" from British airports.
           Nevermind that it would be near impossible to actually combine them
           effectively on the plane...
           \_ Anyone have a clue what the current deal with carryon luggage
              is?  I have to fly to the US in October and am curious as to
              whether they're still being dicks about laptops... -John
              \_ The new TSA regulations say that you have to pull down your
                 shorts as you go through security, and if your johnson
                 looks like any sitting GOP politician, they send you to gitmo.
             \_ flying thru UK or not? seems to vary --oj
                http://tinyurl.com/l796s (btnmag.com)
                http://tinyurl.com/maoql (btnmag - text only)
             \_ flew back from Munich last Wed (to SFO) - no problem with
                laptops, they just swiped the extra mini bottle of grappa
                that the Italian stewardess had given me on the previous
                flight... (no fluids from Munich to SFO, within Europe they
                didn't care) - mds
2006/9/11-14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44343 Activity:nil
9/11    Don't forget about Poland.
2006/9/9-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44332 Activity:nil
9/9     Frederick J Miller came from a well to do family. He was educated
        in Germany and France and operated the Royal Brewery at
        Sigmaringen, Hohenzellern for several years. Unlike his less wealthy
        and humble competitors, he immigrated to the US with some of
        the money he made from Europe ($2000), which in today's money is
        about $200,000 and bought his way into the business. He fulfilled
        his American dream by crushing competition and becoming the
        Walmart of the beer business. Next time you drink Miller Draft
        beer, remember, it has a royalty origin.    -free market supporter
        \_ And that it sponsors illegal alien rallies.
           \_ funny!
        \_ On that note, don't fly any airline that uses Airbus, drive
           Chryslers (both because the feds bailed them out and they
           are German), use Verizon Wireless (45% Vodafone owned) and etc.
2006/9/7-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44309 Activity:nil
9/7     Is the kind of Russians with light skin (e.g. Gorbachev, Putin)
        considered White or European?  Thx.
        \_ Geographically, Russia is a transcontinental nation. (Ural mountains
           are commonly regarded as the border between Asia and Europe).
           However, regardless of the part of Russia they're living in, the
           ethnic Russians culturally are very European, more specifically
           they're eastern European since they share strong historic and
           cultural ties with the other Slavs.
2006/9/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44264 Activity:kinda low
9/4     RIP steve irwin.  crikey!
        \_ You know, somehow, I'm not too surprised, though I'm pretty sad
           about it. He was a likeable character. Likeable and crazy.
        \_ http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/04/australia.irwin
        \_ sad.  all the scary stunt he has done, he was killed by an
           otherwise harmless stingray.
           \_ What do you mean harmless...stringrays are known
              to be poisonous.
              \_ They are not commonly known to be deadly.  He was only the 3rd
                 known fatality from stingrays in Australia.
                 \_ "... 3rd known fatality ..."  Thinkaboutit!
              \_ It wasn't the poison, it was the sting piercing his heart:
           \_ I wonder if after being around so many more deadly animals, he
              was just a little *too* comfortable around a less dangerous one.
              \_ From what I read, it was just a freak accident. That they
                 werent focussing on stingrays but they swam over one that they
                 didn't know was there (Irwin and his cameraman).
        \_ "Officials offered Irwin's grieving family a state funeral ..."
           State funeral?  He's that important of a figure in Australia?  Not
           even the Queen Mother of the UK got a state funeral.  (Not that she
           was nice or anything.)
2006/8/31-9/3 [Health/Men, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44214 Activity:nil
8/31    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060831/ts_nm/crime_art_scream_dc_3
        Even thought I've seen this picture many times before, it still sends
        chill up my spine every time I look at it.
        \_ That article is pretty devoid of details.  This article is a
           bit better:
           \_ british news sources >> US/wire news sources
2006/8/22-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44101 Activity:nil
8/22    http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/ADVISOR/08/22/business.etiquette
        How to not be a dumb American. I sure learned alot from this article.
        \_ Dude, you learned a lot from this article? Are you serious? You
           didn't know that you should research the culture of the country
           you're attempting to do business in before you go to do business?
        \_ 'Chaney says, adding, "you never know when you're in one of those
           countries."'  BS.
2006/8/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44041 Activity:nil
8/17    http://csua.org/u/gp4
        France surrenders preemtively.
        \_ Does that mean we have to start calling them "Freedom Fries" again?
2006/8/16-18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:44035 Activity:low
8/16    http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/08/the_uk_terror_p.html
        Andrew Sullivan questions authenticity of UK terror plot
        \_ They've already released two suspects without charges being
           filed.  Looks like it's unraveling.  Wonder how much the mainstream
           media will cover that.
        \_ Nice trollbait, but the words "Republican" and "Democrat" do not
           appear in this article.
        \_ And why should we care?
           \_ Because Sullivan's not a raving lefty blogger.
              \_ Best joke I've heard all day.
2006/8/15-17 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:44007 Activity:nil
8/15    Open source project adds "no military use" clause to licence
        Actual licence addition even dumber than title suggests.
        \_ We are fighting them in CyberSpace so we don't need to fight them
        \_ I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry.  It's cute.  It's naive.
           \_ Cute and naive.  Like a typical Berkeley undergraduate female
              trying fellatio for the first time. -average Berkeley male
        \_ "Both developers do agree about one aspect of their license clause.
           It is based on the first of science fiction writer Isaac Asimov's
           Three Law of Robotics, which states, "A robot may not harm a human
           being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm."
           That, they say, is a good thing, "because the guy was right," Tegel
           says, "and he showed the paradox that almost any technological
           development has to solve, whether it is software or an atom bomb.
           We must discuss now what ethical problems we may raise in the
           future."   Unfortunately, they totally miss the point of Asimov's
           Three Laws of Robotics.  If they had actually read the stories,
           they'd know his point was that 3 simple laws are insufficient to
           determine the 'right' thing to do in a complex world.
2006/8/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43988 Activity:nil
8/12    Hmmm...
        "LONDON - NBC News has learned that U.S. and British authorities had a
        significant disagreement over when to move in on the suspects in the
        alleged plot to bring down trans-Atlantic airliners bound for the
        United States.
        "A senior British official knowledgeable about the case said British
        police were planning to continue to run surveillance for at least
        another week to try to obtain more evidence, while American officials
        pressured them to arrest the suspects sooner. The official spoke on
        condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the case."
2006/8/10-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43956 Activity:nil
8/10    http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/08/10/uk.terror/index.html
        How to take advantage of a terrorist plot to stay in power for one
        more year.
        \_ Triggered by an ipod? How would that work?  I didn't think ipods
           had any wireless capability.
           \_ Although most cell phone triggers in Iraq are activated by
              calling the phone, you can also rig something up such that the
              trigger will activate when the cell phone alarm goes up.
              trigger will activate when the cell phone alarm goes off.
              Similarly, you can rig anything with an alarm to act as your
              trigger to a real detonator, which is probably attached to a
              9V battery.
        \_ Right. And Israel was really behind 9/11 and the moon landing
           really happened on a Hollywood soundstage.
           \_ Red stater fascist.
           \_ I'm not saying it was orchestrated by those who want to stay
              in power.  I'm saying is that it's being taken advantage of
              politically by those in power.
           \_ You mean they weren't?!?! -proud American
              \_ I am in power.  AND I KICK ASS!!!  --The Man
2006/8/5-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43918 Activity:nil
8/5     House Cafeteria stops serving Freedom Fries, decides crow tastes
        better instead:
        \_ The French sure showed us!
        \_ To be honest, the French would probably rather not be
           associated with bland American fried potatos.
           \_ Don't be so sure: http://csua.org/u/gmd (nytimes.com)
        \_ I loved The Crow.  Brandon Lee was awesome.  -proud American
           \_ Nice spelling of potatoes.  -Dan Quayle
2006/7/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43786 Activity:nil
7/24    Hey German John, do you talk like Dr. Z?
        \_ John is so much more of a supervillain than you can
           possibly imagine, little man
        \_ Eurotrash "I am more civilized than you" John is not a Jerry,
           and he's in Europe so he has not seen Dr. Z's commercial blitz
           in Amerika and does not know what the fuck you're talking about.
           P.S. Bald Germans talk funny, they should be comedians.
        \_ Nein.  -John
           \_ Is your mustache real?
           \_ But the mustache is real, right?
2006/7/24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43768 Activity:moderate
7/24    Tour de France inspired me to lower my handlebar moustache so that
        my back would be as flat as possible to reduce drag. Besides,
        it makes you look like a pro. Anyone know the rule of thumb
        on how many inches below the seat post the handlebar moustache should
        be? Thanks.
        \_ If you're not riding in the Tour de France, zero.  -tom
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