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2017/10/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/16   

2006/7/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43691 Activity:nil
7/16    How hard is it to become a notary? What kind of certifications
        do you need? I'm thinking about doing it to make a few bucks
        a week. I'm tired of eating cup-o-noodle.       -poor student
        \_ There is a one-day course you can take. The costs have to do with
           the course and the materials you're required to buy (also, getting
           bonded, etc.). You may make this up depending on how hard you
           promote yourself.
        \_ Notaries may only charge a set fee ($15) for most notarizations-
           however you may charge travelling fees!   -ca notary
           \_ That's hilarious--in Germany, only something like the top 5 or
              10% of each graduating law school class have the right to go
              for a notary slot, and almost every piece of official paper
              (like home sales contracts for example) has to be notarized,
              which sometimes costs as much as a percentage of the contract
              sum ==> license to print money.  -John
               \_ Home sales in Amerika also need to be notarized. Heil.
              \_ So why is this hilarious? Why do you hate the free-market
                 notary model in America?
              \_ That's remarkably 'efficient'.  Why do they put up with that?
              \_ What can you say.  One isn't even legally require to have any
                 form of picture ID to be a citizen in this country.
                 \_ When I was working on a financial services startup in
                    Munich, we were required to get a banking license if
                    we intended to clear payments above ca. $5 million.  That
                    needed 39 separate official application and permit
                    processes.  I think "what can you say" about covers it
                    pretty well.  -John
                    \_ 39?  Uuuh.  39?  ....  what?  39?
                \_ Wow, you guys should have posted this stuff on the 4th
                   I'm starting to hear various patriotic country songs
                   running through my head.  Of course, maybe I should be
                   expecting more than "not as lame as Europe".  Especially
                   with "not even legally require"d boy up there reminding
                   me that it won't be long till that isn't true.
                   \_ What would be wrong with proving with easily obtainable
                      photo id that you are who you say you are when you vote?
                      \_ I heard from the news that there were some stupid
                         constitutional right issues.  I forgot.
                         \_ Such as?
                            \_ I don't remember.  Maybe something like the
                               right to express yourself anonymously or some
                               shit like that.
                   \_ Who put a bug up your ass?  I was pointing out a silly
                      aspect of an overly bureaucratized country.  Ask any
                      even semi-literate German if he thinks his country has
                      not too many, but way-crazy-stupid-too-many regulations
                      that stand in the way of pretty much anything getting
                      done, then report back with his response.  -John
        \_ also... bear in mind that a "notary" here is much less than in
           other countries.  In the training they warn you to clear up
           misunderstandings with immigrants, who may expect a notary to have
           the powers of a lawyer.  In practice I haven't used my commission
           much, but it's come in handy for friend's papers etc.  Possible
           pitfall: when you are a notary, you cannot turn someone away for
           lack of funds.  So if you notarize something, and say "pay me",
           they could say "no." -ca notary
2006/7/12-18 [Finance/CC, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43652 Activity:nil
7/12    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js0vOgjBfD8
        Use your head to solve problems
        \_ Could have been done so much better.
        \_ I thought this was hilarious: http://csua.org/u/gey
2006/7/9-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43605 Activity:kinda low
7/9     Boo.  Zidane.  Boo.  -John
        \_ I liked it.  You are stupid.  Keira Knightley is still flat.
        \_ yeah, those islamic terrorist.  should of rendition him to
           egypt or Jordan.
        \_ I'm a france fan, but still that was an awesome move!
           \_ Why? It didn't do anything and he got ejected. It was retarded.
           \_ It was lame.  He was set to end an awesome career as one of the
              best and most respected players ever on a really high note,
              whether they won or lost.  Not showing up for the medal
              ceremony was even worse.  I always thought of the guy as a
              really good sport as well as a superb player, despite his
              early career temper outbreaks.  This just sucked.  -John
              \_ I saw a couple dives from him over last couple games.
                 I think he was pissed his header was stopped.
              \- I am kinda wondering, and even kinda hoping, it will
                 turn out that was in response to some kind of racial or
                 ethinic or relig taunt and the tide of sympathy will
                 turn to ZZ. He's a great player technically, isnt a diving
                      \- i think this is particlarly likely given that ZZ
                         whacked MM, who is one of the more thuggish italian
                         players [MM was suspended a while ago for whacking
                         another Serie A player in the face and was also the
                         guy responsible for ZZ getting the early PK when
                         he hit MALOUDA]
                 weasel, he's been through a lot of crap domestically in
                 france, and a prett decent guy off the field [HENRY on the
                 other hand led a bit of a rock star lifestyle but lately
                 got a lot of sympathy after the spanish coach incident].
                 There is certainly a "grand tragedy" element to this ...
                 ZZ was one of the best PKers in the world [for the imminent
                 KFTM phase], he would have won the MVP gold ball award
                 probably if France had won ...  so he woul dhave gone out
                 probably if France had won ...  so he would have gone out
                 on the highest note possible.  But unless some mitigating
                 story emerges, his career is going to be bracketed by two
                 headbutts. Here is a good older article about ZZ:
                 http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1182707,00.html
                 Would have been nice to have seen HENRY and T'GUET play
                 "en ensemble" rather than as close subs. BTW, you are
                 probably right ZZ just didnt want to come out for the
                 medals, but it is possible the fact that after the RED CARD
                 he was obligated to leave the area had some element ... but
                 probably he could have come back if he wanted to. i guess
                 DE ROSSI'S suspension ended just in time for the final after
                 his suspension after putting a bunch of stiches in MCBRIDE's
                 head. --psb
                 \_ we could lock him up, toss him into a jail in Egypt
                    somewehre, pull his finger nails out one by one and find
                    out why he did it.  He is a muslim, right?  we already
                    have plenty of facilities to deal with these muslims.
                 \_ I suspect so as well.  I wouldn't put it past Materazzi &
                    co. to have tried to rattle Ziziou all game; I'd give $$$
                    to have been able to listen in after MM held him back
                    before the headbutt.  -John
                    \- I watched this a couple of times:
                       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBV52GPhNjw
                       Maybe wishful thinking but it seems that MM
                       may have done 1. a nipple tweak [remember, there was
                       probably a covert ear pull on Ballack in the GER-ITA
                       game] which ZZ brushes off 2. then come comments as the
                       are walking along together 3. then presumably some
                       escalatory comment as ZZ spins around ad immediately
                       butts MM. If it did turn out that MM said something
                       maximally offensive [n-word level or think of the
                       crudest anti-semitic thing you can think of ... not
                       just a "yermom" joke] do you really blame somebody for
                       clocking the other person. Well yes you do given the
                       circumstances, but i think my reaction is he should have
                       waited 10min and then whacked him ... meaning it was
                       whackworthy. Something like what happened after the
                       ARG-GER game [although with differnt motivations].
                       I guess I dont buy the view expressed by some that no
                       trash talk justifies the knock to the chest i.e. the
                       "they are just words" view. I thin the Red Card was
                       appropriate and they had now choice, but again if it
                       does turn out MM said some "maximally insulting" thing
                       who would you think worse of: Somebody with a flash of
                       anger or somebody so classless as to resort to the
                       crudest insults [which i dont think are "part of the
                       game"] or even worse somebody who really is a bigot.
                       Is the judgement of history really going to be ZZ was
                       "shameful" or "disgraced" or just dumb? There is a
                       difference.
                       \_ "Maximally insulting"? What does that even mean?
                          Insults only mean as much as a person lets them
                          mean. People have probably died over yermom jokes.
                          Being dumb like that in a crucial moment is rather
                          shame- and disgraceful by itself. I would not be
                          surprised if MM "had it coming" or whatever but
                          there's really no way around it.
                          By the way I would not advise assaulting someone
                          because of insults regardless of their racial,
                          national, or religious content.
                          \- if you cant think of an example, either you have
                             lived a pretty sheltered life or dont have much
                             imagination. i dont think it is appropriate to
                             give examples in the motd. you might want to
                             watch the movie "white hunter black heart"
                             for the woman->sketch of hitler scene.
                             --chaplinsky@soda
                             \_ No I just understand that words really are
                                words at the end of the day. Of course
                                football is also only football and ZZ's
                                headbutt was the most entertaining thing
                                to happen in a match watched for entertainment.
                                Allez!
                                \- You know spitting on an opponent is a
                                   Red Card offense right. Do you think that
                                   is unreasonable...after all, it is just
                                   water?? Do you think with insults between
                                   players the rule should be you can say
                                   whatever you want? whatever you want as
                                   long as the ref doesnt hear? how about
                                   getting the crowd into it by making
                                   animal sounds, nazi salutes etc? [some
                                   of this has happened in futbol in europe,
                                \- You know spitting on an opponent is a Red a
                                   Card offense right. Do you think that is
                                   unreasonable?...after all, it is just water
                                              plus germs and phlegm etc. _/
                                   ... and i am not even sure your "spitball"
                                   has to hit somebody. Do you think with
                                   insults between players the rule should be
                                   you can say whatever you want? whatever you
                                   want as long as the ref doesnt hear? how
                                   about getting the crowd into it by making
                                   animal sounds, nazi salutes etc?  [some of
                                   this has happened in futbol in europe,
                                   cricket in australia etc]. [BTW, there is a
                                   Red Card provision for inappropriate verbal
                                   comments. I cant think of any cases where
                                   this came into effect so I dont have any
                                   context of events. There have been a few
                                   famous spitting incidents].
                                   famous spitting incidents ... the FRA keeper
                                   was suspended for 6mos over a spitting
                                   incident (against a ref, tho).
                                   \_ Spit is physical. I think doing something
                                      egregiously unsportsmanlike deserves red
                                      cards so obviously spitting belongs. So
                                      would some kind of racist gestures. Your
                                      "as long as the ref doesn't hear" is no
                                      different from other incidents... if ZZ's
                                      headbutt hadn't been caught on camera and
                                      displayed in the stadium he probably
                                      would not have been carded. In theory
                                      verbal comments could cause this (But
                                      the only related example I ever see are
                                      when the ref cards for arguing with the
                                      ref.) But even if MM should have been
                                      red carded it doesn't really help ZZ's
                                      case. The apparent nipple tweak might
                                      though. ZZ most probably had a pretty
                                      good reason but it would appear he
                                      placed his ego above the team.
                                      \- being spat upon is not really physical
                                         but at essence a demeaning gesture.
                                         again i think you can be suspended
                                         for spitting at somebody and not
                                         landing the spitball. they are NOT
                                         allowed to book somebody for
                                         something that was not seen by one
                                         of the 4 officials [ref, ast refs on
                                         the touchlines, or "4th man" ...
                                         who is not supposed to use video].
                                         the claim is only this 4th man saw it
                                         directly. they also dont show replays
                                         of controversial stuff in the stadium.
                                         BTW, Sepp and Co have proposed going
                                         to 2 refs for SA 2010 WC. Also lots
                                         of discussion about letting game-
                                         related decisions [say related to
                                         offsides] stand but ex post
                                         penalites for things noticed on
                                         video [diving]. the world is more
                                         complicated than "there are physical
                                         assaults and non-physical ones and
                                         physical ones are lexicographically
                                         worse". i find it odd that any adult
                                         cannot see the "sticks and stones...
                                         words can never hurt me" is nonsense.
                                         assuming you are a USA white person
                                         i dunno if there is an equivalent
                                         to something like "kaffir boeties"
                                         here. see e.g. paragraph 3 here:
                                         http://tinyurl.com/g7he3
                                         about how generic "your mama" taunts
                                         are not the same as personally
                                         tailored "maximal insults". if a
                                         german player said "after the game
                                         i am going to clean my ass with a
                                         soapbar my grandfather made out of
                                         your grandfather" would you blame the
                                         jewish person from clocking the
                                         german guy?
                                         \_ Yes, I would blame the Jew.  Every-
                                            one else does!  (rimshot!)  It Is
                                            clear from your description that
                                            your hypothetical German is just
                                            trying to goad your hypothetical
                                            Jew at a highly public event.  If
                                            it happened on the street, then
                                            no, I wouldn't blame him for
                                            clocking the German guy.  Also, I
                                            find it interesting that someone
                                            above was unwilling to give a
                                            specific example but you not only
                                            did but chose Jews as the victims.
                                            \- did you miss the afrikaans one?
                                               i didnt think an example
                                               you would have needed to have
                                               been from india or alegeria
                                               would have had much currency
                                               on the motd.
                                               \_ I saw it.  Dropping a URL and
                                                  a 2 word quote isn't nearly
                                                  the same as the 'quality'
                                                  line you came up with all
                                                  on your own.  Having been on
                                                  the receiving end of that
                                                  sort of thing many times over
                                                  the years, I salute you, for
                                                  I have never heard anything
                                                  as hateful as you managed to
                                                  come up with but I still
                                                  wouldn't beat you up on
                                                  camera in front of millions
                                                  around the world over it.
                                                  \_ Coward.
                                                     \_ ... says the anonymous
                                                        coward.
                                            Ho hum, status quo.  And while
                                            we're at it, I'm sure you'd rather
                                            someone *say* something mean to
                                            you than *spit* on you.  I'm sure
                                            you'll find being spat on quite
                                            physical.
                                         \_ Of course spit is physical. It's
                                            also gross, and I think they all
                                            spit too much anyway during the
                                            games but that's just me. And yes
                                            they claim the 4th man saw it but
                                            they did show it in the stadium so
                                            who can say for sure. The fact it
                                            took so long for a card to come out
                                            casts doubt. But yes I would blame
                                            someone for physically attacking
                                            someone in response to words. This
                                            should be extremely clear cut. The
                                            law holds this up too. Yes that
                                            also applies to "kaffirs" and Jews.
                                            Violence is a completely different
                                            class of action. I would find it
                                            *understandable* but not justified.
                                            An attack is dangerous and should
                                            be treated very seriously. People
                                            can die from seemingly mild
                                            violence. Do you support murder
                                            of racists?
                                            \_ Murder?  Now you've gone off
                                               into lala land.  Who was talking
                                               murder?
                                              \_ Attacking someone can possibly
                                                 get one of you killed.
                                                 \_ You can also get hit by a
                                                    stray meteor.  It isn't
                                                    murder.  It is assault
                                                    and battery.  And this
                                                    entire sub-thread is way
                                                    off topic.  I guess you
                                                    have no response to what
                                                    I was saying so you chose
                                                    to distract instead.
                                                    \_ A stray meteor isn't
                                                       caused by a human.
                                                       Assault and battery is.
                                                       It can easily lead to
                                                       serious injury or death
                                                       and attackers know this.
                                                       I don't actually know
                                                       what your argument is.
                                                       We started with "insults
                                                       justify violence" which
                                                       I refuted. You're
                                                       jumping on this murder
                                                       thing but I was just
                                                       pointing out that
                                                       violence is serious in
                                                       a way that insults can
                                                       never be close to. This
                                                       "debate" is pretty much
                                                       off the tracks though.
                                                       Good job...
                                                       \_ Are you Jewish?
                                 I'm the guy on the top:  _/
                                 http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/germans/akv
                                                       \- dans, is this you?
                                                          some of the writing
                                                          "i refuted..." is
                                                          consistent with your
                                                          pathologies.
        \_ LAST BOY SCOUTcp
        \_ God, soccer sucks. France seemed to be the better team (more
           shots on goal, for example) and yet they lost because of
           penalty kicks. Why not skip the whole game and just shoot
           penalty kicks at the beginning? I was wholly unimpressed with
           Italy throughout the tournament and yet they are the champions.
        \_ I liked it.  You are stupid.  Keira Knightley is still flat.
           \_ Hey, we tied them! We are the co-champions!!
2006/7/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Sports] UID:43602 Activity:nil
7/8     So where's a good place in the City to go watch the World Cup Finals?
        \_ North Beach if you want to root for Italy. Mission Dolores park
           will have a big screen set up for a free showing. Some alley
           downtown if you are cheering for France. -ausman
           http://www.csua.org/u/gdc
        \_ What time? What channel?
2006/7/5-7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43572 Activity:nil
7/5     Wham! And they're into the finals! (Not saying who, though!)
        http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~erikred/wallchart.pdf
        Finals on Sunday, Third Place match on Friday, and thank you all for
        indulging this crusty old alum. --erikred
        \_ Italy did not look so great against the USA. I am surprised
           they made the Finals.
           \_ True but they scored two goals against the US, who scored zero.
              \_ Huh? The US-Italy score was 1-1.
                 \_ yea, look at who kicked the ball into the goal. (e.g.)
                    http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/match/template.html?id=25&day=17&month=06&year=2006
              \_ US was playing with 9 men and almost scored a goal but
                 for interference. I thought US played better overall,
                 creating more chances despite having one fewer man.
                 \_ I agree ("True") but was just pointing out the own goal.
                    No team has scored against Italy this Cup. But I'll take
                    France/Portugal in the Final.
                    \- It will be pretty funny if Buffon wins the Cupo
                    \- It will be pretty funny if BUFFON wins the Cupo
                       Mondial MVP and then gets indicted ... and in Italy,
                       probably ntbody will care about the indictment. --psb
                       probably nobody cares about the indictment. --psb
                 \_ Yeah, I think too that the US draw against Italy was
                    quite unfortunate. US placed a very agressive game
                    with 11 and even 10 playes and managed to maintain the
                    score with just 9 men. However, what happened in the game
                    with Ghana? I didn't see it..
                    \_ They each scored and then Ghana got a PK.
                 \_ That match was strange already though with all the fouls
                    and cards. The US players were totally desperate and
                    couldn't do anything despite being up a man for a bit.
                    Italy had the upper hand in the Germany match too
                    although I wish they'd lost anyway. I am most interested to
                    see the Germany vs. Portugal match now.
                    \_ Really high-quality game.  -John
                       \_ I am annoyed Germany's Frings was suspended because
                          he seems to be pretty important to their game. It
                          might have made the difference.
                          \- Well, I bet MAXI and other ARG supporters are
                             "annoyed" at KLOSE kicking ABBONDANZIERI in
                             the chest.
2006/7/4-6 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43560 Activity:nil
7/4     Sweet Mamba Jamba! What a match!
        http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~erikred/wallchart.pdf updated: 1444 PST
        As noted below, nothing you can't get at http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com, just
        my own little obsession. Next game: tomorrow, 7/5, 1200 PST.
        \_ Dang it!  Screw Italy.  I was rooting for Germany.  Well, at
           least Brazil lost to France.  -jrleek
           \_ I'm still pinning my hopes on Portugal.
2006/6/26-28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43505 Activity:nil
6/26    Austrian Writer Peter Handke: Send my award to the Serbs
        http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1655863/posts
        \_ Please tell me why do you change it to an IP? Are you
           embarrassed about the source?
           \_ I sure as heck would be.
2006/6/21-24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43450 Activity:nil
6/20    Read about the Star Nations and their dealings with the geoplutocratic
        Cabal.  http://www.drboylan.com
2006/6/20-24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Sports] UID:43437 Activity:nil
6/19    During non-World Cup times, how can I watch international soccer
        games (e.g. european premier leagues)? I don't have satellite,
        nor am I prepared to get it just for this. Thanks.
        \_ You're going to have to go somewhere that does, like a pub.
        \_ Spanish language channels.
           \_ They don't usually show much European soccer.
2006/6/11-13 [Computer/Networking, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43349 Activity:nil
6/11    I don't have cable, does anyone know how I can watch the World
        Cup?  I pretty much just want to catch the US and Korean games.
        -jrleek
        \_ Do you chant "Dae Han Min Gook" extremely loudly?
           \_ If I have to. -jrleek
        \_ Local sports bar? Friend's house? Church gathering?
        \_ I watch the games on ABC, can't you?
           \_ No, I live in Livermore.  I can't get anything but 2 Spanish
              stations.  Watching it on the Spanish channel might not be a
              bad idea...  I was really hoping to be able to get a stream
              online. -jrleek
              \_ I hear you can download "TVants" and watch ESPN online with it
                 though I haven't tried it myself. I don't know if that would
                 have all games. Also supposedly you can watch the BBC stream.
                 It is supposed to be limited to the UK, but:
   http://www.ghacks.net/2006/06/06/how-to-view-the-football-worldcup-online/#more-542
              \_ Try what the end of this article says:
                http://www.ghacks.net/2006/06/09/worldcup-preparations
                Or maybe try using a proxy to access BBC online streams.
                I think it's talking about this:
                http://www.tvunetworks.com/downloads/index.htm
                \_ Hey, thanks.  At least in my test, tvuplayer works
                   pretty well.  We'll see for the World Cup.
                   Addendum: Works GREAT.  I saw most of the Aus vs Japan
                   game this morning, but missed the last 15 minutes where
                   Austrailia come back from 0 to 1 to win 3 to 1.  !@#$
        \_ What about downloads?  Who can watch a game at 6am?
2006/6/9-11 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43339 Activity:nil
6/9     http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060609/od_nm/germany_sausage_dc
        How to kill a women with a German sausage
2006/6/8-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43331 Activity:kinda low
6/8     http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13202682
        Indigenous Hawaiian bill falls short in Senate. You whities may
        have won this time, but we will keep trying. Time is on our side.
        \_ Just curious, are there examples in history where a dominant
           race uses military mights to crush all the inferior natives, and
           the natives worship the dominant culture instead of hating them?
           For some reason, it seems that the conquered people seem to
           have a lot of resentments despite all the material goods and
           better infrastructural improvements brought by the conquerers.
           \_ Worship?  Not per se but the Roman Empire was built by
              "Romanising" the natives they conquered.  After a few
              generations, the original culture, traditions, etc, was often
              lost and certainly secondary to their new Roman culture.  I can't
              recall his name this second but one of the "barbarian" generals
              who attacked the Romans was really just pissed off that he wasn't
              allowed to climb any higher in the Roman army because he wasn't
              considered native Roman even though that's all he ever knew.
              Rome capitulated and forked over a lot more gold and land than if
              they'd just promoted him in the army.
              \_ Alexander the Great did this, too. Heck, even the
                 Russian peasants were cheering the Nazis until the SS
                 showed up.
              \- I am guessing you are talking about Arminius of the Cherusci,
                 responsible for the famous Roman defeat in the Teutoburger
                 Wald, also known as the "Clades Variana". On your larger
                 point, I dont think you really know what you are talking
                 about -- it is pretty hard to generalize about the early
                 Roman conquests [unification of Italy], Rome and the Hellenic
                 World and forward several centuries to the imperial policy
                 of the later Roman Empire. A famous line from Horace goes
                 "Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit" [Captive Greece took
                 captive her capturer] which gives a hint about the
                 complicated "feedback loop" between Rome and one of her
                 subjugated powers. --publius
                 \_ I was speaking about later Roman conquests of Gaul and the
                    surrounding regions as far as Romanisation goes.  The
                    reason Greek culture overwhelemed Roman is that the Romans
                    didn't have much of one to speak of at the time.  As an
                    early state with limited culture first making their way
                    into the world, they didn't have that much to spread to
                    their subjects so I'd have to be talking about the later
                    imperial era.
                    \_ How did "Greek culture overwhelm Roman"
                       You may want to read Plutarch on Cato, at
                       first cut. It's hard to know what you mean
                       since the events you are talking about can
                       refer to anywhere from the 3rd cent BC to
                       say the 2nd cent AD. [like when you say "Roman
                       Empire" do you mean the Roman Empire or the
                       empire of the Roman Republic.
                       \_ It means that the Romans stole much of their
                          culture from the Greeks, even going so far as to
                          be educated by them.
                          \_ i dont know what you actually know about the
                             relationship between rome and the hellenic and
                             hellenistic worlds, but based on your phrasings,
                             i dont think you give rome their due. the
                             relationship between greece and rome is one of
                             the BIG QUESTIONS in roman scholarship in part
                             because it is so complicated. one of the most
                             influential scholars in this area is a recently
                             retired ucb history prof.
                         [http://ls.berkeley.edu/dept/classics/facCVs/esg.html]
                             from the preface to one of his books:
                             "rome yielded to the allure of of greek culture,
                             while retaining a provound sense of closeness to
                             while retaining a profound sense of closeness to
                             her roots ... confrontation with hellenism
                             stimulated roman intellectuals to formulate the
                             principles they associated with their past ...
                             prompted the drive to deliniate the special
                             quality of rome's own values ... romans rec'd high
                             praise for their adaptability, their openness
                             and responsiveness to foreign influence ... [but]
                             assiminlation and resistance went hand in hand.
                             [3rd, 2nd cent bc ...] the romans were by no
                             means boorish rustics, awestruck and intimiated
                             by hellenism, gripped by an inferiority complex...
                             the success of gk culture in rome came in part
                             because it could server certain public purposes.
                             because it could serve certain public purposes.
                             they engaged in adaptation, modification, man-
                             ipulation." in particular see essay "philosophy,
                             rhetoric, and roman axieties."
                             rhetoric, and roman anxieties."
                             \_ This guy just sounds like an apologist:
                                "the success of gk culture in rome came in
                                part because it could serve certain public
                                purposes." Yeah, very small part.
                                \_ gee, "this guy" is a former president of
                                   American Philological Assn, and you are
                                   make sweeping meaningless generalizations
                                   (like not distinguishing between Romanization
                                   in Egypt, Greece, Judea vs. Western Europe.
                                   where you talk about "i'd have to be talking
                                   about the later imperial era" simply doesnt
                                   make any sense ... what year do yoou mean?)
                                   make any sense ... what year do you mean?)
                                   and cant remember the details of the one
                                   specific example you attempt to give.
                                   So forgive me for not taking your comments
                                   seriously. Now how about you tell us what
                                   you think caused the "fall of the roman
                                   empire" and tell us what you think about
                                   R. Syme's "The Roman Revolution".
                                   about the later imperial era" ... what
                                   year do you mean?) and cant remember the
                                   details of the one specific example you
                                   attempt to give. So forgive me for not
                                   taking your comments seriously. Now how
                                   about you tell us what you think caused
                                   the "fall of the roman empire" and tell
                                   us what you think about R. Syme's "The
                                   Roman Revolution".
        \_ why USA is critizing China on Tibet again?
           \_ A better question is when does conquered land regain
              sovereignty? Or does it? Got those crazy MENCha peeps
              trying to get back the Western US (including one Mayor
              of L.A.) Why can't they play nice like the people in
              the Kurile Islands?
              \_ Why don't we just give them the LA mayor if they really
                 want him so badly?  -John
                 \_ Or send him off to be Tibet's Mayor.  They can follow him
                    there.  It'll be utopia.  We'll all want in.
           \_ Because we're trying to spare them the turmoil and angst that
              we have suffered since annexing Hawaii. Don't make the same
              mistakes we have, PRC! You don't want an Autonomous Region of
              hop heads and meth fiends!
2006/6/8-10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43329 Activity:nil
6/8     Heil German John!
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060608/od_nm/germany_biting_dc_1
        \_ Heh, thanks for the joint effort. However, last month I found out
           he's not a real German so I stopped posting German links.
           Thanks for the continued efforts anyways.    -the other GJ guy
        \_ *snif* I'm moved.  And other GJ guy, can't you come up with
           something?  I miss you.  ChiCom troll's disciples have been sort
           of sub-par recently.  -John
           \_ Sorry for your dwindling fan club membership but as a former
              member, I quit. I was very disappointed that you're not a real
              German. You see, I only troll Ayrans, people who have true
              Germanic blood. You're impure and not worth trolling for.
              I guess if the Swiss were funny I'd continue my trolls
              except they're not. They're notoriously boring and very
              difficult to make fun of. Good luck with your fake-German
              fan club.                 -the other GJ guy
              \_ I'm pretty aryan, please love me.  -John
2006/6/7-9 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43296 Activity:nil
6/6     The EU Conspiracy
        http://csua.org/u/g3l
        \_ The whole thing about a move away from democracy towards
           centralization is correct, but "Eurabian"?  Deep End alert.  -John
2017/10/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
10/16   

2006/6/5-9 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43283 Activity:nil
6/5     http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1791111,00.html
        UK Guardian reports that intelligence that led to raid on residence
        in which a Muslim guy got shot was wrong, and that the intelligence
        came from a single uncorroborated tip (yet "specific" and "credible")
        from a police informant.
        Official line is that the chemical vest has not been found on premises.
2006/6/3-9 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Sports] UID:43266 Activity:nil
6/3     How do I listen to the world cup games?
        I think the BBC is broadcasting to European internet
        users.  How do I listen to this? - danh
        \_ Why would you want to listen to color commentators from any
           country other than mexico?  I recommend that you learn spanish and
           listen to latino radio for your world cup coverage,
           GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
           GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAL!!!!!
           GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAL!!!
           \_ For some bizarre reason, this seems to be common with all S.
              American announcers I've heard.  Anyway, why would you care
              about the world cup?  FIFA is evil.  -John
                \_ OK, I'll bite. And why is are they evil?
                   \_ They're corrupt, they fuck taxpayers in host countries
                      for all they're worth under the name of some wishy-
                      washy let's-all-get-along-through-soccer idea, and
                      people are dumb enough to go along with them.  FIFA is
                      basically a mixture of F1 racing, the IOC and any
                      American commercial major league in terms of their
                      business practices and how they work.  If you want
                      good soccer, go play pickup.  -John
                      \_ How does that make them different than anyone else
                         in sports?
                         \_ It doesn't really, but the IOC and most US major
                            leagues are a joke too.  -John
           \_ It's funny when they start to do that but then it turns out
              not to be a goal for some reason and they suddenly stop.
        \_ Move to the UK
        \_ Try BBC Five Live:
           http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/sport/football/worldcup/2006/guide
           http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive.shtml?listen
           \_ So you probably need a UK HTTP proxy cause they're suppose to
              be checking IP's at the door
2006/5/29-6/2 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43217 Activity:nil
5/29    I have a feeling that anti-US sentiment is running strong.  I just
        don't see how a traffic accident can cause such:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5026350.stm
        \_ America haters have always wanted to throw rocks at American
           soldiers. Now they have an excuse. My take is that America
           will never fully understand why foreigners hate America,
           nor does it have the capacity to understand and even care
           what others think. "We are good, and everyone else is evil."
           \_ It's really cool how you write with such sweeping
              generalizations and abstractions.  Do you refer to yourself in
              the third person when you speak? -dans
        \_ I have a feel that the I-dont-give-a-damn-about-what-others
           -think sentiment is running strong in America, especially
           in the cowboy zone of America: http://fuckfrance.com
        \_ Big Army truck in a convoy hit a car, 1 dead Afghan, 4 injured.
           It looked like the truck was driving away.  I'd be mad as hell.
        \_ you make the mistake of assuming that what is reported is
           even remotely linked to reality.
           \_ the casualty is higher than that.  But this is nothing new,
              though.  To avoid attack, both Army and private contractors
              are instructed to drive as fast as they can.  If there are
              people in the way, they simply run over them.  Private
              contractors and army drivers run over people VERY frequently
              in Afganistan / Iraq.   I just don't see how THIS particular
              "accident" is different than any other cases.
2006/5/29 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43215 Activity:nil
5/29    Castro's Cuba
        http://www.therealcuba.com/index.htm
2006/5/17-22 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43076 Activity:nil
5/16    Good old World Net Daily.
        global warming!!        "Not only will it work, but one can easily estim\
ate how long it would
        take. If it took the Germans less than four years to rid themselves of
        6 million Jews, many of whom spoke German and were fully integrated
        into German society, it couldn't possibly take more than eight years
        to deport 12 million illegal aliens, many of whom don't speak English
        and are not integrated into American society."
        http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50198
        \_ hello? queueing jblack to say something informative
           \_ make the illegals build a border wall, train them in civics
              and military tactics, equip them with AR16s and send them
              back.
              \_ Very nice. What about the blacks and the Asians?
                 \_ Crispus Attucks was the first casualty of the
                    Revolutionary War.
              \_ There has never been an "AR16" in service. Obvious no sign
                 of military training.
        \_ Not just Jews, but lots of others, too. So we start rounding
           up all brown people and ask for their papers. If they don't
           have them (or we just don't like the way they look/act) they
           go into the ovens, huh? Deporting them isn't going to cut it.
           You have to give them a reason to abandon everything they have
           here and never come back.
2006/5/16-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:43068 Activity:nil
5/16    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060516/od_nm/germany_mugger_dc
        Heil German people. I don't heil John anymore because he's not German
2006/5/4-6 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42928 Activity:nil
5/4     Bored:  http://www.okcupid.com/tests/take?testid=10261089081449493081
        Grammar/spelling test.  I think there's one wrong on this but I can't
        figure out which it is.  Anyone?  It's driving me nuts.  -John
        \- caveat browser: they ask a bunch of personal questions before
           giving you the results. the test claims i missed one too and
           i am pretty sure i didnt. this is not a good test. if you dont
           know the answers to a fair number of these you are simply an
           idiot. it would be like giving a geography test and asking
           "what countries are the following cities in: london, paris,
           berlin, ouagadougou." the distrubution will not have good
           distribution properties. i think the only goo question was the
           desserts/desert one. the economist grammar or usage test is a
           pretty good one. like what is the difference between "i read
           the article on google in the last/latest issue of the e'ist."
           ok tnx. --psb
           berlin, ouagadougou." the results will not have good
           distribution properties. the only thing it answers is "are you a
           moron, are you a regular person, or are you one of the few
           people who know where ouagadougou is". i think the only good
           question was the desserts/desert one. the economist grammar
           or usage test is a pretty good one. e.g. what is the
           difference between "i read the article on google in the
           last/latest issue of the e'ist."  ok tnx. --psb
           \_ You don't actually have to fill in the personal info.  Just
              click the Next button and leave that stuff blank.
           \_ Yeah, ditto here--I am positive I got 30/30, went over it very
              carefully and cannot find the one that's causing 29/30.  It's
              not a good test in any case (and for the data farming, use
              mailinator) but I just want to know whether one of the answers
              is wrong or whether it's a scoring glitch (or intentional, as
              it _is_ a dating site.)  -John
              \- oh i didnt know what kind of "cite" it was. i just entered
                 some random info and was wondering why they wanted all that.
                 i think the error mighyt be with the brit spelling of
                 caret. or maybe he got the dessert/desert one wrong.
                 karat/caret. or maybe he got the dessert/desert one wrong.
                 anybody who believes some of those questions are reasonable
                 seems suspect. if you judge people by the company they keep
                 do you know anybody who would get less than 25 on that test?
                 do you know anybody who would get less than 20 on that test?
                 (excusing non-native speakers ... it might be a decent ESL
                 test). presumably he does.
                 general observation: i think you can quite easily tell
                 petty grammarians from people with really good and deep
                 understanding of language. the good people come up
                 with good examples of why agreement to subject/object
                 or other subtle distinctions are important ["john has more
                 friends than me/i"]. while they lamers just relish in
                 berating people. this is a good example of what i mean:
                 http://www.newyorker.com/printables/critics/040628crbo_books1
                 i also remember talking to a woman who i think was ABD in
                 english and was harshing on the poor writing of attornies
                 at the law firm where her job was to edit these letters.
                 at the law firm where her job was to edit their writing.
                 she seems to have trouble following "lack of care" !=
                 "lack of knowledge". i.e. it probably made economic sense
                 not ot have +$300/hr attorney's running spell check and
                 it was better to pay an unemployed english MA 1/8th the
                 salary to make those kinds of corrections.
                 \_ It's not the carat/karat thing and I don't have the
                    patience to go through every conceivable permutation, I'm
                    more curious about whether, this being a dating site/cite,
                    the script purposely auto-deducts a point from every 30/30,
                    whether it does so from all scores, if it's just a flaw,
                    whatever.  Idle curiosity is all.  -John
<<<<<<< Other Changes Below
                    \_ <summary: mice is stupid>
                                \_ I thought "desserts" was colloquially
                                   accepted?  I used mice's ("dessert") and
                                   got 29.  Care to write down your answers
                                   somewhere?  -John
                                   \_ see above summary...mice != 30/30.
                                      \_ Ah, the you answered 30/30 questions
                                         thing?  -John
                                         \_ Heh, yeahhh.  Lack of sleep,
                                            too many drugs, recovering from
                                            brain surgery, distracted by
                                            french foreign exchange student
                                            roommate, etc.....
                    \_ I managed to walk away with 30/30.     -mice
                       \- what did you put for dessert/desert?
                          \_ dessert.  *shrug*             -mice
                             \- that is wrong. as i imagined the author of
                                the quiz is leem. desert doenst just mean
                                a hot and sandy place but also from the
                                same root as "deserve". 29 > 30. --psb
                                \_ Huh, that's interesting.  Colloquial usage
                                   doesn't seem to be in agreement with this,
                                   but I suppose that's the sort of conflict
                                   inherent in a living, evolving language.
                                   I'll have to keep that in mind.  Thanks,
                                   psb!                 -mice
                                \_ Actually, I think both options (as
                                   they're presented) are wrong.   -mice
=======
                    \_ Whoever overwrote mice's posts, fuck you.  It was
                       interesting.  -John
>>>>>>> Your Changes Above
           \_ I got 29/30 but then I now noticed that #24 is talking about
              oxen. I didn't really read it before and chose the wrong one.
              The one with "voila" seems arguable though.
              \_ What did you think #24 was talking about?  And what's
                 arguable about "voila"?  Lack of diacritics?
                 \_ I thought it was a simple spelling question or something.
                    (dealing with eggs) I dunno I was racing through it.
                    And yeah the diacritic.
        \_ Okay, I managed to get 30/30.  As for "just desserts":
           http://www.snopes.com/language/notthink/deserts.htm
           Do you want me to post my answers?
2006/4/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42849 Activity:nil
4/27    http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/archives/2006/04/041806.html
        First video blog that doesn't suck! -dans
        \_ That was actually funny. Thanks. --erikred
2006/4/24-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42818 Activity:nil
4/24    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060424/od_nm/germany_corpse_dc
        Illegal to drive a dead person in your private car.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060424/od_nm/germany_brothel_dc
        URL self explanitory
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060420/od_nm/germany_toilet_dc
        Germany and toilet, oh nevermind.
        \_ Censorship!  Evil religious people forcing their view... oh,
            nevermind, they're Muslim.  Ok then.
           \_ It is very simple. Muslims are willing to hurt or kill you,
              and have demonstrated this. The other guys mostly don't.
              I bet people would be a lot more respectful of Christians
              if they blew people up now and then.
              \_ You mean, like, go to a country, drop a few tons worth of
                 bombs, leave a military presence to enforce policy, and
                 try to install our own governing body?  Right, it'll never
                 happen.....
                 \_ Well I'm referring to violence as punishment of "offending"
                    religious sensibility. Iraq is plain ol' geopolitics.
              \_ You mean like Ireland?
                 \_ Ireland is about ethnicity more than religion. They too
                    aren't offending each other's religious sensibility.
                    Muslims try to kill you if you create literature,
                    documentaries, or cartoons they don't like. That's
                    not what Northern Ireland is about.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060420/od_nm/germany_toilet_dc
        Germany and toilet, oh nevermind.
2006/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42597 Activity:kinda low
3/31    Nice try but I have MORE time than you.
        \_ Shut up and eat your Freedom Fries:
           http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/11/politics/main543555.shtml
        \_ you don't. see above.  you'll get a few things here and there
           but in the long run there's absolutely nothing you can do of
           any consequence.
2006/3/31-4/2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42584 Activity:moderate
3/31    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/france_job_protests
        Is it just me or it seems like the French are communists?
        \_ Socialists.  Communism is different.
           \_ Communism is a form of socialism. I say close enough.
              \_ Are your reasoning skills really this deficient?
                 ``Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism,
                   at least it's an ethos.'' -dans
              \_ Are you saying Sweden, and Norway are Communist??  are you
                 the type who prefer abolish social security, minimum wage,
                 and child labor law and let Iron Law of Wages rules?
                 \_ I am the type, but I never said, say, Sweden is
                    communist. What I said is that communism is a form
                    of socialism. France is a lot closer to communism
                    than it is capitalism.
                    \_ dimwit is a big fan of capitalism and McMansionized
                       suburbian SUV lifestyle and anything else is just
                       evil communism.
        \_ "The French have no word for entrepreneur." -gwb
        \_ We care why?
           \_ Now _that's_ funny. Thank you.
           \_ Nice urban legend.  http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.htm
2006/3/30-31 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42534 Activity:kinda low
3/29    Pictures of Angry Mexicans:
        link:tinyurl.com/gahoh
        link:tinyurl.com/k9rn5
        link:tinyurl.com/e6aqs
        \_ Maybe the guy with the "indigenous people" sign should have
           checked with all those Indians first.  -John
           \_ Er, Mexicans are just as indigenous as the Indians here.
              (There are Spanish immigrants in Mexico too, but it's not
              like here where the immigrants pretty much replaced the
              local population.  It's easy to tell the difference: Spanish
              people are tall, white, and European-looking.  Mexicans are
              shorter, darker, and not.)
              \_ They're not all white and Euro-looking. Lots of swarthier
                 ones from their time with the Moors.
              \_ That's funny, the last time I was in the middle of the
                 Yucatan, the people there didn't look much like any of my
                 Mexican friends from college/HS, or the Mexican guys
                 from DF I work with now.  Maybe they changed them or
                 something.  -John
                 \_ Spanish descent.  Gringo v. Indio.  Round MMCCXVII.  FIGHT!
              \_ I'm sure the Mexicans you know would say that.  The Indians
                 would have something entirely different to say.  If the
                 Mexicans are indigenous then so are all the white people
                 in the US.
                 \_ I don't know man, the Spanish seems to have breeded
                    extensively with the Indians under their rule.  Whereas,
                    in north america, Indians were mostly just sent to
                    reservations.  While Mexicans don't look the same as
                    Indians, they look different from whites too.  They
                    are mixed.
                    \_ The CIA World Factbook agrees: they list Mexico as
                       "mestizo (Amerindian-Spanish) 60%, Amerindian or
                       predominantly Amerindian 30%, white 9%, other 1%".
                       You're right, though, I shouldn't have said they
                       were "just as indigenous as the Indians".
              \_ I don't know, isn't a mexican claiming to be indigenous to
                 California by virtue of being indigenous to Mexico kinda like
                 a Chinese guy claiming to be indigenous to France?
                 \_ Is an idiot still an idiot if they can't recognize
                    their idiocy?
                 \_ Are you stupid or just stupid?
        \_ At least they finally figured out that they should be waving US
           flags, no Mexican flags.
           \_ Must've run out of Mexican flags.  Next shipment arrives next
              week from HK.
2006/3/29-31 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42526 Activity:nil
3/29    Sweden burns?
        http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938
        \_ More like, "Right Wing Alarmists Make Shit Up."
           \_ Here's the variation from NYT.  "Islam on the Outskirts of
              the Welfare State"  ttp://tinyurl.com/qhosl
              Are you still so certain that the http://brusselsjournal.com
              article is pure fabrication?  - !op
              \_ Of course he is. It is incompatible with his worldview,
                 therefore it is false.
              \_ The "variation from NYT" doesn't paint a Sweden in danger
                 of imminent collapse from Islamic immigrants; the BJ
                 article, by noted anti-Islamist Fjordman does. So, yeah,
                 I think Fjordman's making shit up.
        \_ we need a goddamn all-out crusade against islam.  stop all these
           pussyfooting excuses of terrorism.
2006/3/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42481 Activity:kinda low
3/27    Poll asks if "the free enterprise system and free market economy is the
        best system on which to base the future of the world".
        China: 74% agree
        US: 71% agree
        France: 36% agree
        "Large companies have too much influence over our national govt"
        France: 86% agree
        US: 85% agree
        China: 47% agree
        http://csua.org/u/fcp
        \_ this is a reflection of these nations' standard of living gradient
           \_ Or their competitiveness.
        \_ this is a reflection of these nations' standard of living gradient\
          \_ Or their competitiveness.
        \_ Pretty funny to see a higher acceptance in China than the US...
           \_ even more funny when these guys are calling China the Communist
              evil empire.
2006/3/24-27 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42419 Activity:low
3/24    http://www.anthemamerica.com/New%20Jpegs/German_soccer_fan%5B1%5D.jpg
        I maintain that German gals are the hottest!
        \_ Earth calling Swiss John. What awful things have you got to say
           about the German people this time?
           \_ They're all physically lumpy, wear ugly glasses, act too
              self-righteous, and are prone to invading Poland.  -John
        \_ I love that European women shave their pits.
           \_ I love that Asian women don't need to shave anywhere. Nice
              clean pits, no hairy legs, and nice looking, unobstructed
              easy-to-access vaginas.
2006/3/17-20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42300 Activity:moderate
3/17    France weighs forcing iPods to interoperate.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/17/technology/17ipod.html
        \_ How the hell can they "force" apple to do anything?
           In fact, could the american government even force
           such a nonsense requirement? Can't apple just give
           france the big F you and not agree?
           \_ Did you read the article?  "My gut feeling is that Apple
              will simply pull out of France if these amendments get
              through,"
           \_ And France says "OK, then you may not sell music in
              France."  Which would be pretty dumb, but I suspect that is
              what is going to happen.
           \_ Apple could, but they probably want to keep doing business
              in France. Congress could probably force Apple to open up
              as well under the Commerce Clause.
        \_ i am not too worried.  French didn't do jack shit with
           Microsoft
        \_ Couldn't Apple do something like "OK, French ITMS users can now
           buy WMA files for 2 euro each."  Now ITMS customers can play their
           music anywhere and almost nothing changed.  For bonus points, make
           the WMA files non-burnable and non-transferrable to other computers.
2006/3/17-20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42284 Activity:nil
3/17    Freezer failure ends couple's hopes of life after death
        http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,,1732946,00.html
2006/3/16-18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42267 Activity:nil
3/16    Eurotrash!  http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1760580.html  -John
2006/3/10-13 [Science/Biology, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42183 Activity:low
3/10    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0308_060308_all_fours.html
        Hahaha what the fuck?
        \_ Seriously looks like something out of the Weekly World News.
        \_ "...*the* gene responsible for bipealism..."
        \_ "...*the* gene responsible for bipedalism..."
           singular?  Somehow I rather doubt that.
           \_ it's worded poorly. better: the gene for upright balance.
              Except they do suggest that since they were never encouraged
              to stand upright by parents that it could still be
              behavioral.
        \_ Bet the girls are the life of the party.  -John
2006/3/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42152 Activity:kinda low
3/8     Unlike most Berkeley geeks I have a blonde gal fetish, esp those
        that have nice boobs and nice butts. From time to time I dream
        of having sex with a hot blonde dressed as a nurse. I think
        I got the cravings after getting bombarded by images of
        Hello Nurse in Animaniacs. Or maybe it was Lisa Hayes in Robotech.
        Then again I didn't even reach puberty when those cartoons came out.
        I don't know. Do you have a weird fetish or fetishes and do you
        know where you got it from?                     -soda geek
        \_ Lisa Hayes is a brunette.  You're probably thinking of Dana
           Sterling from the Robotech Masters. -dans
           \_ I thought Miriya was hot. I guess I have a thing for chicks
              with green hair. Maybe he's thinking of Rook.
           \_ I thought Miriya was hot. I guess I have a thing for giant
              chicks with green hair. Maybe he's thinking of Rook.
              \_ I think this guy can help you out:
                 http://www.free-webspace.biz/KlnkingArchive/klnking.html
              \_ Tananda!
                 \_ heh, yeahhh.  Did she and Gleep ever work out their issues?
        \_ You went to the wrong school.  You really wanted to go to a second
           tier school in SoCal for that.  And if you were serious about your
           fetish, any place in Florida.
           \_ Is this a backhanded way of expressing your racist view that
              blondes are dumber so they don't go to 1st tier schools like
              Cal? Fucking racist chink, go back to your country.
              \_ Not dumber, but apparenty an evolutionary mistake that's
                 about to be corrected:
                 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2284783.stm
                 \_ A hoax: http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/blondes.asp
              \_ Racist?  Not at all.  It is a cultural statement.  I do find
                 it amusing you accuse me of racism in the same sentence you
                 call me a "chink".  In fact, calling me a "Fucking racist
                 chink" is the finest bit of stupidity I've seen on the motd
                 all week and that's saying a lot for this last week.  I'm
                 curious though: how did you decide I was a "chink" as you say?
              \_ No, just an observation by someone who obviously visited
                 both Cal and USC. We can argue the "whys" later.
            \_ Texas (or really anywhere in the South), too.
2006/3/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42138 Activity:high
3/8     Any motd commentary on the ranting geography teacher?
        http://csua.org/u/f63  (article)
        link:csua.org/u/f64  (mp3 of rant)
        \_ You posted it.  What do *you* think about it?
           \_ Fair enough.  I don't have all the facts, but I understand
              he's been complained about before, which I would assume
              means he's been warned.  I was originally somewhat
              ambivalent about it.  I've had ranting teachers before, no
              biggie, but that rant is really over the top.  Assuming he's
              been warned before, I think, in a perfect world, he would be
              fired for incompetence.  However, this being the public
              school system, he'll probably just be punished in some
              vaugely passive-aggressive manner, like making him teach
              math or something. -op
              \_ Addendum: It seems he may have been complained about
                 before, but was never explicitly warned or diciplined, so
                 I'm downgrading my recommendation to "warning and a
                 slap-on-the-wrist." -jrleek
              \_ There are a few moments that are over the top, but, overall,
                 not that ridiculous a rant.  I don't quite follow your claim
                 that, because he rants, he is incompetent.  Frankly, if he
                 did the same thing, and used it to foster an interactive
                 discussion with his students, he'd be a really great
                 teacher.  Even as a rant, what he's saying is more thought
                 provoking and challenging than most of the pablum served up
                 in high school.  This is a good thing, assuming you want high
                 school to teach kids solid critical analysis skills that are
                 a key tool needed to synthesize raw information into well
                 thought out and informed opinions.  Contrariwise, this is
                 terrible if you want high school to pump out cogs suitable
                 for working dull 9-5 jobs in an industrial economy where
                 obedience is more important than ideas.  BTW, why don't
                 most so-called conservatives on the motd sign their posts?
                 -dans
                 \_ Most people that post here, conservative or otherwise,
                    do so anonymously.         -mice
                    \_ Good point.  I suspect I've got some unfair selection
                       bias. -dans
                 \_ He's incompetent because he's not teaching anything,
                    he's just ranting.  He is not using it foster any
                    discussion.  How are they supposed to discuss it
                    while they're supposed to taking notes?  What he's
                    saying is not even really "thought provoking" because
                    he gives no context or evidence for any of it.  Some
                    of the questions he asks the students aren't even
                    really defineable.  "What is the most violent country
                    in the world?"  The kids dejectedly mutter "us,"
                    knowing the answer he wants. Assuming you could even
                    figure out what that question is supposed to mean,
                    don't you think Sudan, for example, might be a better
                    choice?
                    Anyway, he just jumps from subject to subject in a
                    disjointed rant that has nothing to do with the topic
                    of the class or teaching the kids anything but
                    "America is bad."  He offers no evidence, and expects
                    no discussion becuase he mostly references topics that
                    no high school student can reasonably be expected to
                    know enough about to call him on his BS. Some of his
                    facts are even flat out wrong.
                    BTW: didn't think it was important, but, if you
                    prefer. -jrleek
                    \_ Who gives a shit?  His rant isn't about geography, which
                       is what he's supposed to be teaching.  I think the
                       content of an off-topic rant is less important than
                       the length.  It seems to me that crazy digressions are
                       not relevant to the teacher's qualities as a teacher.
                       My highschool physics teacher went off on some pretty
                       crazy stuff about conspiracies and all the people he
                       thought should be executed and so on, but he was still
                       a great physics teacher because he was *usually*
                       talking about physics, and we all learned the material
                       (as proven by superior AP exam scores).  If anything, I'd
                       say my highschool physics teacher's rants helped us pay
                       attention to the physics because you never knew when
                       something whacky was coming.  Of course in today's
                       neo-fascist school environment, he'd probably end up
                       fired for the stuff he said about politics and we'd
                       end up with the moron creationist chem teacher teaching
                       us instead.
                       \_ Reasonable point, although I was responding
                          specifically dans' statement.  In this case, the
                          rant seems to have been about 20 minutes, at my
                          high school that would be approx. 1/2 a class
                          period.  The kid claimed he does this
                          frequently.
                          "Neo-fascist school environment?"  You haven't
                          been around a high school in a while, huh?  I
                          can pretty much guarantee you, nothing has
                          changed.  (At least since I was in school)
                          -jrleek
                          \_ What year did you graduate high school?
                             \_ You first, anonymous man. -jrleek
                                \_ 1994.
                                   \_ 1998.
                                      \_  Uh...ok, so both pre-Columbine and
                                          pre-911.  I call bullshit that
                                          nothing's changed.  Do you have
                                          a younger sibling in high school
                                          or something?  Where's your
                                          circumstantial evidence that
                                          nothing's changed?
                                          \_ Yes, my little sister just
                                             graduated from the same
                                             school I did.  That's pretty
                                             much all the evidence though.
                                             Many of my firends were still
                                             there for when Columbine
                                             happened too.  Admittedly,
                                             you're now more likely to get
                                             in trouble for threatening to
                                             shoot people at school, but I
                                             wouldn't exactly call that
                                             "fascist."
                    \_ WRT the ``what is the most violent country in the world
                       question,'' I agree that it could be phrased better.
                       If you want to talk internally violent, then yes,
                       Sudan definitely is up there, though the US' homicide
                       rate is, to my knowledge, the highest among developed
                       countries.  If you want to talk about externally
                       violent, then you can make a strong argument for the
                       US.  Is Sudan on the warpath?  Is it attacking its
                       neighbors?  To my knowledge, no.  If Sudan got angry
                       at, say, France, would it be a threat?  Probably not.
                       The US is one of the few countries in the world with
                       global reach, and, in light of Russia's decline,
                       possibly the only country with an arsenal capable of
                       literally wiping countries off the map or destroying
                       the world with the push of a button (MAD was a real
                       part of political policy making in the cold war).
                       \_ Wow...just...wow.
                                On a technical note about the `dejected'
                       response, I think that's a reasonable interpretation of
                       the response, but not the only one.  This was likely
                       recorded with an inexpensive omni microphone, thus when
                       one speaker projects from the front of the room, it is
                       much clearer than when many speakers talk from all
                       directions at once.  In my experience, getting *any*
                       response from a class room of high school experience is
                       hard to do.  Then again, maybe I just suck as a
                       teacher. :)  One also must realize that not all
                       learning or discussion happens in the classroom.  Push
                       students buttons enough in the classroom, and they'll
                       argue and discuss material outside of the classroom.
                       If this is the teacher's strategy, he's executing it
                       poorly, but, in the right hands, it can be a very
                       powerful technique.
                                On the evidence side of things, I agree
                       that his discussision of capitalism was one of the
                       over the top moments where he doesn't justify his
                       statements.  On the other hand, most of his statements
                       about US dealings in Latin America are factual and, to
                       my knowledge, accurate (cf economics of coca).  I don't
                       like the idea that high school students are too dumb or
                       too ignorant to go toe to toe with a teacher that
                       raises obscure facts.  When my teachers did this, I
                       took it as a challenge and I learned from it.  IMO,
                       when you raise the bar for the brightest students, it
                       lifts everyone up, and when you cater to the lowest
                       common denominator students, it pushes everyone down.
                       BTW, thanks for signing.  Nice to know who
                       I'm arguing with.  FYI, I gradugated in '97 -dans
                       Thanks for signing your name, it's good to know who I'm
                       arguing with. -dans (graduated highschool in 1997)

                       \_ Sudan is also supporting militias attacking
                          Chad. And, your point is that he's
                          incompetent?  agreed. -jrleek
                          \_ US: EVIL, ANTI-US: GOOD!
                             \_ If American public schools don't teach
                                students that dissent and critical
                                questioning of our leaders is a patriotic duty
                                and a key ingredient in a healthy democratic
                                society, who will?  Maybe your joking, but if
                                you're serious, your vast oversimplification
                                suggests that your school did a poor job of
                                teaching you those vital critical analysis
                                skills. -dans
                                \_ Um, maybe PARENTS should teach their
                                   kids this sort of thing?
                                   Maybe schools should concentrate on
                                   teaching kids the basics of things
                                   like math, science, grammar, &c.
                                   \_ Schools need to teach students things
                                      like critical reasoning; furthermore,
                                      a high school teaches civics, which is
                                      supposed to be sort of an "owner's
                                      manual" for a democratic republic.
                                      This does include "dissent".  But
                                      not in geography class.  -John
                                      \_ Well, that depends whether you think
                                         geography is just map reading
                                         skills and memorizing place names.
                                         That's a reasonable approach to the
                                         field if you're teaching
                                         kindergarteners.  The actual field is
                                         more interesting, complex, and
                                         subtle.  It encompasses geopolitics,
                                         and is a reasonable venue for
                                         discussion of the how the US
                                         interacts with the word.  It's not
                                         really a leap from that discussion to
                                         civics and decent. -dans
                                         \_ In the context of the subject.  If
                                            the guy's gonna rant about
                                            politics, whatever they are (which
                                            he is) it belongs in a civics
                                            class.  -John
                                      \_ I disagree. I think the main
                                         problem w/ US education is that
                                         it focuses too much on what the
                                         student feels, &c. instead of
                                         devoting time to the essentials
                                         like math, science, languages,
                                         &c. While dissent and discussion
                                         can be useful, the place for
                                         this is HS debate team.
                          \_ Okay, so are Sudan's incursions into Chad
                             equivalent to the US invasion of Iraq?  I could
                             see how one might argue that, morally, the answer
                             is yes.  But I think once you bring the question
                             of degree and scope into it, I don't think the
                             comparison holds water.  The US toppled the
                             government of Iraq in, literally, weeks.  How
                             long have Sudanese incursions into Chad been
                             taking place?  Are they having a substantial
                             impact on the nation of Chad as a whole?  Could
                             Sudan wage an effective war on another country on
                             the other side of the globe?  Does Sudan have
                             chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons that
                             could literally obliterate a country?  I am in
                             no way asserting that the US' actions are
                             equivalent to Sudan's, but I do think that the US
                             is orders of magnitude more powerful than Sudan,
                             and thus, we must hold it to a significantly
                             higher standard.  Most of the time US citizens do
                             hold our nation to a higher standard, and our
                             government behaves accordingly.  There are,
                             however, exceptions, such as our incursions into
                             Latin America.  Many actions by the current
                             administration also fall below the necessary
                             standard.  And no, my point is not that he's
                             incompetent.  I think some of the points you
                             raised are valid, and are areas for improvement.
                             I think it's a pretty considerable leap from the
                             points you raised to the assertion that he's
                             incompetent.  You seem to view this as a very
                             binary matter.  -dans
        \_ I had avoided listening to this rant for a few days now, but
           I listened to parts of it just for you. The way I understand
           it, it sounds like he was talking during class rather than
           during lunch or after-school or something.
           If he said this during lunchtime or after-school (ie when
           the students were free to come and go from class), I think
           that his spiel was perfectly okay.
           But, during class I think this isn't okay for at least
           the following two reasons:
           1. His job is teaching Geography not Geo-politics. His
              blathering doesn't teach kids anything useful about
              geography, such as how to read things like elevation,
              distance, water currents, &c. on maps.
              Arguably he doesn't even teach students reasonable
              geo-politics. Many of these problems have no sol'n
              that all sides can reasonably agree on.
              \_ Um, have you ever taken a college level Geography class?
                 Geography *is* geopolitics.  See:
                 http://geography.berkeley.edu/ProgramCourses/OpenLetter.html
                 -dans
                 \_ No I have not taken a college level geography
                    class. I was too busy taking real classes to
                    waste my time/money on nonsense classes like
                    geography, history, &c. This fluff stuff is
                    \_ In the words of some old, dead English guy, ``There
                       are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than
                       are dreamt of in your philosophy.''  Eh.  It's all just
                       fluff stuff to you.  You sir, are an idiot. -dans
                       \_ The fluff stuff, my friend, is "a tale told
                          by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying
                          nothing."
                    something one can learn on the side if one
                    has nothing more productive to do. I didn't
                    want to waste the precious time in school
                    on that type of drivel.
                    Regardless of this, whether or not I have
                    taken college level geography is irrelevant
                    to a discussion of High School geography.
                    Its like asking if I've taken o-chem, when
                    the conversation is about 9th grade bio.
                    HS geography is about trying to get 9th and
                    10th graders to locate different countries
                    on a map and hoping that they figure out
                    that Africa and Asia a different continents.
                    It is not about trying to give them the low
                    down on every regional war, &c.
                    \_ Were you actually that stupid in high school?  How the
                       hell did you get into Cal?  As far as I know, Cal
                       doesn't have legacy admits like Harvard. -dans
                       \_ Cal only considers GPA, SAT and SAT2
                          for admissions. If you study hard in
                          HS, it is pretty easy to get nearly
                          perfect scores on each of these and
                          have your pick of engineering majors.
                    There is no point talking about the complex
                    stuff if, say, the students can't figure out
                    that Georgia is a country and a state.
                    \_ Americans don't need to waste time learning geography.
                       They just need to do what they're good at doing and
                       their good 'ol government led by the greatest
                       president in the world, GWB, will take
                       care of everything. Ok?
                       \_ Learning geography doesn't help you
                          build a better transistor, write
                          better code, sequence DNA, &c.
                          If the choice is between wasting
                          time on geography or taking more
                          math and science, the choice to
                          me is OBVIOUS. But, if you want
                          to take the bs classes to pad your
                          GPA and feel good about your place
                          in the world, don't complain when
                          Asian engineers and scientists
                          take over all the major US industries.
                          \_ Yes, because understanding the world around you
                             and applying that understanding in the ballot
                             booth is much less important than the newest
                             language feature or most recent BSD kernel
                             release.  Philosophy is for those *other* people
                             that run the country, and therefore clearly is
                             beneath the lofty study of us engineers!!!1!one
                             \_ Philosophy is mostly for people
                                who can't get into a real major
                                (or are driven insane b/c they
                                 majored in math).
           2. His job is to ensure that the maximum number of students
              learn the maximum amt of geography w/in the school year.
              His actions may run counter to this.
              \_ That's got to be the most ridiculously bad, oversimplifying
                 misuse of mathematical/economic jargon I've ever seen used to
                 describe what a teacher's job is.  Plus you don't even know
                 what Geography is. -dans
                 \_ Geography is map reading: the study of the earth and
                    \_ Err, you might want to look at the course descriptions
                       in the berkeley course catalog.  I suspect you'll
                       be unpleasantly surprised.
                       \_ I'm talking about HS geography, not college
                          level geography where they can teach all sorts
                          of stuff and label it whatever they want.
                    its features and of the distribution of life on earth.
                    This guy's performance should be measured on based on
                    how well his kids can read a map and figure out where
                    different flora and fauna occur, &c.
              After listening to a dozen or so of these talks, some
              students may conclude that their time during his class
              is better spent doing AP Chem homework or playing GBA
              rather than learning geography.
              This attitude can lead to many students tuning out the
              parts of the lecture that are objective. Given the
              difficulty of teaching kids, teachers ought not take
              affirmative steps that can make learning even harder.
              \_ Ok, I also finally gave in and listened.  Geez.  The problem
                 here isn't the guy's political positions, it's that his lecture
                 is stream of consiousness.  CIGARETTES!! GUNS! WMDs!
                 CAPITALISM!  BUSH!!! VIOLENCE!!! I've taken science classes
                 that were stream of consiousness by profs who didn't bother
                 to prepare, and it's retarded no matter what the content
                 is.  "Here's a picture of me with a nobel laureate! One time,
                 I was taking a piss, and I invented a new transistor!  Fermi
                 functions!!!"
                 \_ Alright buddy, how about less exclamations and more vacations?
              \_ #DEFINE LEARNING_GEOGRAPHY ROTE_MEMORIZATION_AND_LEARNING_BASIC\
_MAP_READING_SKILLS_A_KINDERGARTENER_COULD_PICK_UP_IN_A_WEEK
                 -dans
                 \_ Well if a kindergartener could pick it up in
                    a week, why is it that only 25% of graduating
                    seniors are considered proficient in geography?
   http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/geography/results/natachieve-g12.asp
                    \_ Maybe because we don't teach it to kids in
                       kindergarten when it might actually present a
                       an exciting challenge? -dans
                       \_ Okay, we don't teach it in kindergarten,
                          and we don't teach it in HS. So kids never
                          learn it. Teaching geopolitics when you
                          don't know geography is like trying to
                          teach calc to someone who can't even do
                          algebra.
                          \_ Geography encompasses both map reading and
                             geopolitics.  The two go hand in hand.  You must
                             be a robot if you believe typical high school
                             students will learn anything from a semester long
                             class where all they do is read maps and memorize
                             the names of places. -dans
                             \_ Personally I would rather have spent
                                a semester learning things like how
                                to read navigation charts, elevation
                                charts, the historical development
                                of major cities, biodiversity, &c.
                                rather than some self-godwin'ed
                                drivel about US BAD, WHITE MAN KILLS!
                                \_ I prefer to read about how us
                                   British conquered and ruled the
                                   world, and how we administered
                                   150 million Indians through the
                                   Indian Civil Service, much more
                                   effectively than the incompetent
                                   Americans did with their conquests.
                                   If geography doesn't help you rule
                                   the world more effectively, what good
                                   is it?
2006/3/6-8 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42108 Activity:nil
3/6     "Diana Probe Finds No Evidence of Foul Play"
        http://csua.org/u/f5j (Yahoo! News)
        "French officials have said all traffic cameras on the road that
        Diana's car took, and within the tunnel, were not working the night of
        the crash.
        But Monday's Daily Express newspaper challenged that finding, saying a
        woman was caught speeding by a camera in the Pont d'Alma tunnel moments
        before Diana's crash."
        Conspiracy, conspiracy ...
        \_ Yes, this is clearly the Greys (lead by Lord Elvis for the last 752
           base 10 time cycles) in cahoots with the Bigfoot Army Of God,
           working closely with their allies the Sea Monsters in an attempt to
           distract you from their real plans...  now that you have caught on,
           The Membership Of The Grand Conspiracy shall attend to you.  Like
           all top notch arch villains, we can only be found out and stopped
           by squads of pot smoking teens driving around the country in a van
           stopping at random dark inns for no aparent reason or teams of
           animal detectives working without their human companion's knowledge.
           \_ BARKY THE ENVIRONMENTAL DOG!!!
           \_ Are you blind?  Can't you see this is the work of the Reverse
              Vampires?
              \_ [the above poster has been found and summarily executed in
                  an impromptu Dark Ritual.  we apologise for this brief
                  moment of inconvenience for our conspiracy theorist
                  audience.  you may safely continue with your plans for
                  world domination/destruction at your own pace.]
2006/3/3-6 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42095 Activity:high
3/3     UNC low-grade terror attack
        http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=3958312
        \_ One idiot driving his car through "a popular campus gathering
           spot" does not make for a terror attack, no matter why he said he
           did it. Otherwise, we're going to have to arrest Jodie Foster for
           the actions of her Army of One.
           \_ One person can't execute a terror attack?
              \_ Doesn't it seem odd to you that something that could so easily
                 have killed several people, even by accident was non-fatal,
                 and that the guy is now claiming to be a terrorist?  It
                 just doesn't add up.
                 \_ You make the mistake of implying that all terrorists are
                    rational, sane individuals.  -John
                    \_ HEIL GERMAN JOHN!
                    \_ And you're making the mistake of assuming that there is
                       any correlation between what the news says and reality.
                       \_ I was about to launch into a diatribe, but then it
                          struck me how random this comment is.  -John
2006/3/1-4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:42040 Activity:nil
3/1     Can someone point me towards any resources that would let me figure
        out how much to charge for consulting services in a given country?  I
        need to figure this out; indie IT consultants almost don't exist here,
        so there's almost no info to go on, and I think basing it on the same
        sort of percentages I can work with in the US/Europe compared to what
        big companies charge won't work, as their rates are pretty skewed
        compared to average income here.  Any sites that do comparisons
        internationally would be appreciated.  -John
2006/2/24-27 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41995 Activity:nil
2/24    I'm going to Paris and want to bring back some really nice local
        French wines which I can't get in the states. Can anyone suggest
        a few in particular?
        \_ Well, erm. You probably won't find those in Paris. You will
           have to go to the wine country to find wines from small
           producers. Anything noteworthy (with a big name) is available here
           in the US. Most fine French wine is available for export. Your
           best bet is to find unusual wines like some Rhones (especially
           whites), Condrieu, Alsatians, Champagnes from small houses,
           white Bordeaux, and similar oddballs. The problem is most of
           the really boutique stuff probably won't be easy to find in
           Paris either. You'd have to go to the wineries, same as here
           in the US (compare San Francisco wine selection versus, say,
           going directly to Napa).
           going directly to Napa - or even, say, Portland since Paris
           isn't that close to that much of the wine country).
2006/2/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41951 Activity:nil
2/21    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060220/od_nm/germany_drugs_dc
        Description of the URL is self explanitory (Germany Drugs).
2006/2/15 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41868 Activity:low
2/15    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060215/od_nm/germany_bed_dc
        Heil German John's younger brother!
        \_ Are we sure he didn't let a chick tie him up in anticipation of S&M,
           and then the chick changed her mind and left?
2006/2/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41848 Activity:nil
2/14    Wiretapping, European-Style.  http://www.slate.com/id/2136147
        \_ The UK has one of the highest concentration of CCTV cameras in
           the world.  Things that would be looked at as horrendous in the
           US are taken for granted there; there is very little concern
           for privacy in many initiatives ranging from collecting road
           tax and issuing speeding tickets to what the yellow press is allowed
           to get away with.  This is done in the name of protecting children
           or preventing terrorism, and taken to incredible extremes.
           Interestingly enough, the UK actually has fairly strict privacy
           and data protection legislation, but I'm still trying to work out
           exactly how (and if) it really works.  -John
           \_ Yeah, it's pretty crazy the amount of information many
              Western European governments know about the people that live
              within their borders and it certainly should not be a model
              for the US to imitate.
2006/2/12-15 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41809 Activity:nil
2/12    Islam is the Vic-20 of cultures:
        http://www.joeuser.com/articles.asp?c=1&AID=100703
        \_ I miss JUMPMAN
           \_ These days it's called "BEHEAD MAN"
2006/2/9-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41781 Activity:high
2/9     "The press will give the Muslim world the message: We are aware of
         the consequences of exercising the right of free expression,"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060209/wl_nm/religion_cartoons_eu_dc
        \_ The guy in the photo looks like Inspector Closeau pondering the
           crime.
        \_ Man, that's really disappointing and frustrating.    -mice
        \_ This sounds a lot like the Comics Code of the 50s. Sigh.
        \_ What can I say, I'm disgusted.  -John
        \_ Well, it's looking like that whole Iraq War has spread stability
           and democracy throughout the Muslim World!  Yes, it sure is going
           well, yessiree Bob!
           \_ Yes, it's all because of this.  Give me a fucking break.  The
              Iraq war was wrong, and it hasn't helped, but what you're seeing
              is as much of a symptom of a generally pathetically broken
              "culture" as a reaction to just one factor.  -John
        \_ The Arab press published the cartoons Oct 17:
           http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48746
           \_ "Arab press"... For a better researched examination of press
              accounts, see the juancole link from yesterday. worldnetdaily
              is shit.  Wow. They quote the astute observations from "an
              anonymous poster on FFE's blog".  There's a news source to
              trust.
              \_ juancole's url is weak.  all he shows is that egypt used
                 the issue, when one could also show that iran and syria
                 used the issue also.  he also shows that people got pissed off
                 when they first heard about the cartoons, which has been an
                 obvious fact and not in dispute.  the two unanswered questions
                 are, did saudi arabia use it too, and which entity(ies)'s
                 using this caused this to become as serious as it did?
           \_ How come the major western media or the Danish govt didn't pick
              up on this?
              \_ Because major western media is not concerned with such petty
                 issues as demagoguery, mudflinging and..uh..nevermind.  -John
        \_ This is just being realistic.  Demographically, the number of
           people who believe that images of the prophet should result in
           being stoned, or punished, or whatever, is going to overwhelm
           the number of people in Europe who believe the right of free
           speech trumps any religious concerns.  In the coming decades
           Europe is going to become a lot more like the Middle East
           than he Middle East is going to become like Europe (freedom
           wise that is).  The massively exploding populations of the Middle
           East and shrinking populations of native Europeans pretty much
           seal that.  And plenty of them, coming to Europe, think Sharia
           law is a good idea.  This is not to say Sharia law will become the
           law of the land anytime soon, but eventually the concerns of the
           Muslims are going to filter into European governments, especially
           since it's unlikely they would go for any kind of Apartheid system
           that doesn't give Muslims an equal say in government.  Actual
           discrimination is another issue (see France).
           \_ Not if European countries start shutting their borders to
              immigrants.  Then the massively exploding populations will
              discover the downside to massively exploding populations.
                \_ As long as economies are based on fractional banking and
                   require endless growth, they will need an influx of labor.
                   For example, in Spain the fertility rate is like 1 baby
                   per woman, which means every generation the new population
                   is cut in half ... Witness what happens in America.  It's
                   the huge desire for cheap labor that draws in the
                   immigrants.
                   \_ What's "fractional banking"?  --ignorant
                        \_ It allows banks to create money out of thin air
                           and lend it out.  These loans have to be paid back
                           with interest.  This requires more economic
                           activity, hence growth.  See wikipedia.
              \_ The ones already in Europe are exploding quite well on their
                 own, immigrants or no immigrants they will be a large
                 political force.
                 \_ Interestingly, in the countries that have historically
                    been very open to immigration (UK, France), there seem to
                    be far more second/third generation "foreigners" that
                    acclimatize poorly than in traditionally more homogenous
                    countries (Germany, Scandinavia)--but then again that
                    could be because there are just more immigrants.  -John
                    \_ Cf. ghettoization of immigrants vs. bringing them into
                       the economy. In the US, depsite the existence of
                       extensive "foreign" cultural centers (e.g., Chinatown),
                       immigrants have become a part of mainstream economy
                       and thus have less to lose by acclimating or
                       assimilating.
                       \_ I wouldn't credit this too much as a reason; any
                          large German or Austrian city, for example, is
                          very likely to have a big Turkish "ghetto".  -John
                \_ I wonder why European countries (specially Spain and
                   Portugal) don't import more workers from Latin American
                   countries instead.  The cultural 'incompatibility' wouldn't
                   be as much of an issue in that case.  Most Latin American
                   countries have terrible unemployment and underemployment
                   rates even among their college graduates.  This would be a
                   win-win situation for Europe and Latin American countries.
                   \_ Guessing: price.  Employers don't care who they hire as
                      long as they're cheap.  Transport from LA is too pricey
                      for cheap labor when you can hire the people who are
                      already right there in country.
2006/2/7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:41739 Activity:high
2/6     Haha, Iranian newspaper planning to print holocaust cartoons:
        http://csua.org/u/ex1
        \_ Shrug.  Government run Arab newspapers print the most racist, ugly,
           and horrible 'cartoons' about Jews and Israel everyday.  This is
           hardly news.  It's an Iranian PR stunt.  Frankly, I really hope
           *all* the Western newspapers and other visual media show their
           cartoons.  It'll be quite the eye opener for a lot of people instead
           of the main stream media white wash we've always had.
           \_ That's why it's funny.
        \_ This will show two things to the world:
           1) what islamic nutcases consider "equivalent" to some pretty tame
              depictions of mohammed
           2) that when you truly, deeply insult jews... they don't riot,
              burn your embassies, and threaten to kill you.  (ok, well, they
              kill you if you fire rockets or assassinate their olympic
              athletes, but that's different)
           \_ on the other hand, if you truly, deeply insult black people ...
              (Rodney King, LAPD, etc.)
        \_ People just love to take things out of context: I heard the full
           text of the edict on pictures of the prophet on NPR.
           The whole quote states that they should not be drawn for idolatry
        purposes only. No where does it forbid other reasons. But as they say,
        a basic requirement for being in a democracy is to be able to
           purposes only. No where does it forbid other reasons. But as they
           say, a basic requirement for being in a democracy is to be able to
        withstand being offended. That is one of the pillars of free speech.
           \_ If what you just gave is the context, how is it in any way
              interesting or important?
           say, a basic requirement for being in a democracy is to be able
           to withstand being offended. That is one of the pillars of free
           speech.
2006/2/4-7 [Consumer/CellPhone, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41710 Activity:nil
2/4     I am going to Europe for the first time since Cell phones became
        ubiquitous.  My understanding is that my American cell phone will
        not work.  Is there such a thing as a cheap, pre-paid phone that
        one can use for just a week while in Europe?  Do they suck?  Where
        would one buy such a thing?  I'll be in France, a few miles outside
        of Paris.  Thanks.
        \_ The appropriate unlocked GSM phone should work.  You just need
           to buy a local SIM card.  I have a Mot v66 that I use just for
           international travel.
        \_ What he said. 1. Get an unlocked GSM phone that supports 900Mhz/
           1800Mhz signal (Cingular & T-Mobile in the U.S. uses 850Mhz/1900Mhz
           frequencies). Better yet, get a quad-band phones (that covers all
           4 of the above). Motorola V220 comes to mind ($20 thru Cingular).
           You can get the above for cheap from eBay.
           2. When you get to Paris, buy a prepaid SIM card from companies like
           Orange, France Telecom or Vodafone. You might also look in eBay to
           see if someone would sell it to you before you leave the U.S. That
           way you avoid the language barrier when dealing with French shop-
           owner (in case you don't parlez francais) and knowing what your
           French cellphone number is in advance (so you can give to your
           wife/mistress/secretary, etc.) Lowest prepaid is about 15-20 Euro,
           and incoming calls are free. Sign up for callback service to save
           money, or a forwarded tollfree number that you can set to route
           calls to your French cellphone. (http://www.telcan.net is what I use)
            \_ I got a tri-band phone before I went to Spain.  When I got
               there, it didn't work.  I had assumed it would just work in
               Europe (with a proper sim card, of course).  It turns out,
               I needed to change a setting in the phone for it to work on
               the European band.
2006/2/3-7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41686 Activity:moderate
2/3     Quick poll, where did your ancestors come from? Mayflower?
        France? Iceland? Norway? Italy? Russia? I'm curious :)
        \_ I'm 1/3 Cherokee, so I'm told.
           \_ that's some strange reproduction there!
              \_ How so? If one side is 1/4 (3/12) and the other side
                 is 1/12, then 3/12 + 1/12 = 4/12, or 1/3. On the other
                 hand if he said 1/5, I'd be suspicious.
                 \_ How can you be 1/12?
                    \_ hold on, let me think about it and get back to you.

                       \- if you go back enough generations you can get
                          enough small terms so they approach 1/12th.
                          say you go back 10 generations to where you have
                          1024 ancestors and say 85 of them are 100%
                          cherokee and 940 are 100% french, then you are
                          about 1/12 cherokee.
        \_ 15/16th Chinese, 1/16th Japanese.
        \_ 1/2 Danish, 1/4 Irish, 1/4 Polish --erikred
        \_ 1/2 German, 3/8 English, 1/8 Scottish
           \_ was not aware that English!=Scottish. All the same to me.
        \_ 100% honkey.
        \_ 1/2 Scottish, 1/4 German, 1/4 English
        \_ Geeze, how do the rest of you know to that degree or are you just
           guessing?  1/? Russian, 1/? Ukranian, 1/? Polish, 1/?? German,
           1/? ????.  --vaguely eastern european
           \_ Relatives who have retired and discovered the joys of genealogy.
           \_ Just 'round off' once you don't know the genealogy any further
              back.
        \_ 50/50 German/Swedish
           \_ HEIL GERMAN JOHN!!!
              \_ Actually, 49% Swiss, 12.5% Scot, 12.5% Welsh, 12.5% Irish,
                 12.5% English, 1% French/Jewish.  Close, though.  -John
        \_ 3/8 German, 1/4 English, 1/8 Irish, 1/8 Dutch, 1/8 Cherokee
           (this is just an estimate, there is also some French and Swede)
        \_ India.
           \_ What tribe?  /me ducks
        \_ 1/2 polish, 1/4 german, 1/8 irish, ..., 1/2^N mongolian horde
        \_ Mayflower
        \_ 1/2 Peru, 1/2 Nepal, but dont know which half is which.
        \_ Mayflower
        \_ 1/2 Cantonese, 1/2 Shanghainese
2006/1/18-20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41414 Activity:nil
1/18    "U.S. is No. 7 in FIFA rankings"
        http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=ap-fifarankings&prov=ap&type=lgns
        US ranks higher than England, Italy and Germany.  What a different
        world.
        \_ Given that England, Italy, and Germany all have to play each other
           and US's only real competition is Mexico, it's surprising this
           hasn't happened before.
2006/1/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41353 Activity:kinda low
1/11    Has anyone ever seen a version of Joy of Cooking in metric units?
        I want to learn to cook, and that looks like a great book, but I
        refuse to use those bullshit units.  Surely there must be a UK,
        Canadian, or Indian version that has the SI units. I asked at my local
        bookstore and searched Amazon to no avail.
        \_ There are better cookbooks to learn how to cook from.
        \_ You do know that the UK doesn't use SI for everything, right?
           \_ Yes, I do.  But I also know that they make a better effort
              than the U.S.  I've gotten drawings from English companies where
              they dimension everything in "cm", but everything happens to
              be in even multiples of 2.54, which is a bit annoying.
        \_ I would love to see a cooking book measures weight of meat in
           "Stones."
        \_ You want to learn to cook like a Brit?  What the hell do you care
           what the units are?  Oh noez!  It says 3/4 cups and your measuring
           cup has uhm... cups on it!  Panic!  If this is your biggest gripe
           in the world you're doing ok, except you're whiney.
        \_ Not bloody likely.  Only the English edition is available on
           amazon.fr, and a review there complains about the usage of
           spoons and measuring cups.  The review also praises the precision
           of measurements in the recipes (I guess implying French cookbooks
           are less than accurate about measurements).  If your continental
           (or other metric using area) language skills are up to par, you can
           always pick up foreign cook books.  The problem is that cuts of meat
           and incredient names, not to mention just taste, vary from region
           to region.  I'll probably pick up some french ones for myself next
           time I have the opportunity.
2006/1/10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41311 Activity:nil
1/9     French Maids: How to Podcast
        http://www.frenchmaidtv.com
2006/1/5-6 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41238 Activity:nil
1/4     Jesus on trial in Italy:
        http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/04/italy.jesus.reut/index.html
2005/12/27-30 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41149 Activity:moderate
12/27   Who would win?  Italian Mob?  Triads?  LA Gangs?
        \_ you forgot yakuza
        \_ The Russian mob already won.
           \_ I thought it's Ukrainian.
              \_ Why do you hate Ukranians?
                 \_ cause they collaborated with the Nazis to kill us Jews.
                 \_ Charles Lindberg and many famous Americans loved Hitler,
                    maybe we should have jailed them or something.
                    \_ if that is the case, you have a lot of people to hate
                        French, Italians, and Polish were all collaborated
                        with Nazis
        \_ al qaeda
        \_ Mini-Ditka, driving da Bears bus.  -John
2005/12/22-24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41116 Activity:nil
12/22   French Anti-Americanism:
        http://www.economist.com/world/europe/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=5323762
        \_ ?  This is news?  The French have always gone their own way, at
           least during their sovereign periods.
           \_ Not news, just interesting reading.
2005/12/21-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:41110 Activity:nil
12/21   http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051221/od_nm/germany_lottery_dc
        Paranoid German woman who won the lottery didn't want to
        claim the prize. German women rule.
        \_ Rule?  What is so great about having experienced such shit that
           when something good happens she thinks its a scam?
2005/12/11-14 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40959 Activity:nil
12/11   Welcome to 12/11 (fuel depot explosions)
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1538156/posts
        \_ BBC, which as you may recall is a real news site, so far
           mentions that it's an accident.  -John
           \_ news.bbc.co.uk says "Police believe it was an accident", but
              earlier I was reading other news.bbc.co.uk links that said
              they weren't talking about it.  I'm not sure what to make of
              that.  They were scared it might be terrorist related, and now
              they've found evidence that suggests it was an accident?
              The BP oil refinery accident of Mar 23 2005 in Texas City, TX,
              occurred when workers were starting a machine used to increase
              gasoline octane ... at 1:23pm on a Wednesday.
              This fuel depot accident occurred 6:03am local time on a Sunday
              morning ... could have been an automatic process I guess.
              \_ Anytime something major goes kaboom in a non-neutral Western
                 country the initial reaction is always to consider
                 terrorism as a likely possibility.  -John
                 \_ These bastards don't seem to hold back for neutral
                    countries.
                 \_ Yeah, I will give that the longer an incident like this
                    goes without a credible (video evidence) claim of
                    responsibility or a repeat incident, it becomes more
                    reasonable to say it was an accident ...
        \_ fyi, for posterity, I compared the BBC diagram of the accident
           area (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4517962.stm and found
           the location on <DEAD>maps.google.com<DEAD> (http://csua.org/u/e99
2005/12/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40954 Activity:low 85%like:40948
12/9    Prince of Russia:
        http://tinyurl.com/dgazk (video.google.com)
        \_ That is just fucking awesome.  Thanks.  -John
           \_ Parkour also shown in the movie "Banlieue 13".
           \_ Seconded, that was tight.
        \_ Is the soundtrack French Rap?
           \_ Yes. Parkour is big in france:
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour
              Here is a video of founder David Belle in action:
                http://tinyurl.com/9zaqe (video.google.com)
              Personally I think the Russian guy is better.
2005/12/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40909 Activity:nil
12/7    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051207/od_nm/garbage_dc
        Call of nature saves German man. HEIL GERMAN MAN!
2005/12/7-9 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40904 Activity:low
12/7    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051207/od_nm/germany_toothpaste_dc
        German shoplifter had a brush with the law.
        \_ Just goes to show you never can tell where your toothpaste has been.
           \_ He mistook those toothpaste for KY Jelly tubes.
        \_ "store detectives ...... forced him to hand over his booty." :-)
        \_ He nearly escaped by the skin of his teeth.
        \_ It says he's an Uzbek. Damn immigrants.
2005/12/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40840 Activity:high
12/3    Immigrant families in Germany murdering their daughters for
        ... behaving like Germans.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/magazine/04berlin.html
        \_ Good article. --darin
        \_ "Honor killings" have been taking place in countries all over
           Europe--it's disgusting and has gotten people to re-think how
           tolerant they want to be of immigrants who don't assimilate. -John
           \_ Europeans (at least Germans) also need to re-think how their
              own culture erects barriers for immigrants who want to
              acculturate. That, unfortunately, has not been happening.
              \_ Most Europeans never were particularly comfortable with
                 the mass-immigration concept. That's not part of their
                 recent history except a bit of inter-European movement.
                 So now this is forced on them... why do they have to change
                 their culture? And what barriers exactly are you talking
                 about? Punishing honor killings? -foo
                 \_ No, I think he's talking about the fact that, despite
                    most European countries having large-ish immigrant
                    populations, it is actually pretty difficult in a lot of
                    places to assimilate, even for second-generation kids.
                    The "barriers" aren't really conscious, but there have
                    been a lot of studies recently about job discrimination
                    against people with non-European names.  This in no way
                    excuses the honor killings and shit like that, but there
                    was a good E'ist letter to the editor recently by a guy
                    who'd taught in Italy--a group of ethnic Japanese students
                    was referred to only as "the Japanese" by other students,
                    even though they'd all been born in Italy.  True or not,
                    this is pretty typical and explains some of the failure
                    to integrate.  Given that, there's also a _lot_ of un-
                    willingness on the part of a lot of Balkan and Arab/Muslim
                    immigrants to integrate.  -John
                    \_ Well I think it's a pretty natural situation. How would
                       those Italians fare in Japan? Not that Japan would even
                       let large colonies of immigrants set up their own
                       cultural islands the way immigrants do in Europe.
                       Other countries don't work the way America does and
                       that's ok. Japanese in Italy will always stand out
                       until so many immigrants eventually change the face
                       of Europe (already happening). I don't think they
                       should be forced to be perfectly accepting of
                       immigrants. I guess it comes down to the idea of
                       people having a homeland attached to their ethnicity.
                       This traditional notion is simply incompatible with
                       "integration". To me it's common sense. I would not
                       expect to feel like a native Chinese if I moved to
                       some random Chinese town, or if I was one of 3 white
                       kids in a Chinese school, and first generation kids
                       aren't gonna suddenly be Chinese either when they don't
                       have Chinese parents and cultural tradition. I think
                       immigrating is a choice and some of the negative aspects
                       are to be expected. Obviously they should be protected
                       law and tolerance should be taught. You can't force it
                       though without trampling somewhat on the native people's
                       lives. I guess it's also a chicken-and-egg thing... the
                       immigrants would only become "acculturized" after
                       several generations; but natives don't really want to
                       deal with non-acculturized immigrants.
                       \_ The Japanese thing was just an example.  We are
                          talking about substantial groups, like Turks in
                          Germany, Algerians in France, Moroccans in Holland.
                          I think you're imagining large European cities as
                          more ethnically homogenous than they really are.  For
                          example, while it still registers when I see an Asian
                          guy in a Swiss army uniform, it's a common sight and
                          people tend not to notice.  Your points about the
                          cultural islands holds though--although such homo-
                          genous enclaves are perfectly natural, a lot of
                          countries (especially Germany, Holland and France)
                          have been _very_ reluctant to confront the fact that
                          these people are of different cultural backgrounds,
                          parts of which are simply not OK here.  They've now
                          started to face this.  We'll see.  -John
        \_ Immigrants families in US become mass murderers.
           http://tinyurl.com/au5x8
2005/11/30-12/2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40774 Activity:nil
11/29   French government says "oui" to racism:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_on_re_eu/france_gilding_history
        \_ Assertions like this are why usage of the term "racism" is often
           greeted with derision, and why a lot of people don't take such
           allegations very seriously, even when they should.  This is not
           racism, this is colonialist apologism, there is a difference. -John
           \_ I do agree with you in general, and that this has more to
              to with colonialism than racism, but what makes the line a
              little blurred is that the the law specifically calls out
              North Africa, not, say Vietnam or the far Western parts of
              Germany. See first paragraph:
                 http://csua.org/u/e4o (lemonde.fr)
              \_ Don't forget that large parts of French N. Africa were
                 actual Departements of France as opposed to colonies--they
                 were administratively considered no different from the
                 country's European bits, and had a very large number of
                 European-descended French people living there.  So the
                 Algerian war of independence hit very close to home, and not
                 just geographically.  The "far Western parts of Germany" you
                 refer to are ditto, and are now called "Haut-Rhin" and "Bas-
                 Rhin", formerly Alsace & Lorraine.  The Saarland, although in
                 French hands from time to time, was never really considered
                 part of France Metropole.  Hope this clears things up. -John
2005/11/22-23 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40688 Activity:nil
11/21   http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051122/od_nm/germany_drunk_dc
        A German man drank too much, wet his bed and set fire to his
        apartment while trying to dry his bedding. Sieg Heil german john!
2005/11/21-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40669 Activity:nil
11/21   Jews fleeing France ... again.
        http://csua.org/u/e1v
        \_ French-Jewish philosopher disparing
           http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/646938.html
        \_ They would've fled 20+ years ago if they were smart.  It's not too
           late now but getting close.
2005/11/20-22 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40663 Activity:nil
11/20   Current state of the Netherlands:
        http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,17308340,00.html
        \_ "Academics and authorities in The Netherlands are trying to
           understand why, in their country, Islamic extremism has gone down
           the path of assassination, while in Britain and Spain it has
           produced bombings."  ...so they can join the club?
2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40575 Activity:nil
11/14   Kazakhstan vs. Borat
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051114/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_kazakhstan_borat
        \_ The guy's whole act is making fun of Kazakhstan?  Where is he
           from?
           \_ Making fun of Kazakstan is incidental.  The main act is to
              pretend to be a reporter from Kazakhastan and ask wierd
              wierd interview questions and try to get a funny response out of
              the subject.
              interview questions and try to get a funny response out of the
              subject.
              \- "We are from France"
                 \_ heh
                 \_ Hiiiii  Fiiiive!!!
           \_ Borat is Ali G aka Sacha Baron Cohen, who is actually a
              Cambridge grad and highly eloquent in real life.  -John
2005/11/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40572 Activity:high
11/14   http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/14/opinion/14blochemarks.html?hp
        US using torture techniques learned from the North Vietnamese and
        North Koreans.  w00t!!
        \_ http://tinypic.com/fneaza.jpg
        \- the world is flat! globalization!
        \_ How very kind of the US to legitimize the torture of US
           citizens by NV and NK.  I mean, if it's OK for the US to torture,
           it must be OK to torture US citizens.
        \_ How very kind of the US to legitimize the torture of US citizens
           by NV and NK.  I mean, if it's OK for the US to torture, it must
           be OK to torture US citizens.
           \_ I don't believe in torture but this is not the reason why.
              Whether or not we torture others has no bearing on what others
              will do to Americans overseas.  No thug has ever said to himself,
              "Gee, I'd really like to rip this guy's teeth out and cut off
               some fingers but his country would never do that to me so I'll
               just give him a holy book of his choice, 3 squares, and hold
               him indefinitely instead".
                \_ It doesn't work directly like that.  However, the fewer
                   countries do it, the easier it is for the non-torturing
                   countries to exert influence on the torturing countries
c                  countries to exert influence on the torturing countries
                   in a variety of ways.  There are lots of other benefits
                   to being a non-torturing country, for example making it
                   easier to get support from moderates in your fight against
                   the extremists.
                   \_ Moderate countries or moderate citizens in your own?
                      Internal support is required to a _limited_ extent in
                      a democracy.  In a heavy handed dictatorship, support
                      from the militarty and secret services are the only
                      necessary groups.  There are no 'moderate' countries.
                      Countries exist to benefit their population.  They are
                      naturally self-interested and will do what is necessary
                      to further their own ends.
                      \_ This is not really how the real world works. I know
                         it works that way in Civ II, but in a dictatorship
                         it is probably even more important to keep the
                         general populace either on your side or in fear
                         of you.
                         \_ I don't play Civ II so I don't know what you're
                            talking about.  In a dictatorship, you can isolate
                            and brainwash the people as seen in NK but that
                            sort of isolation is economy crushing, as seen in
                            NK, or you can beat them down with the military
                            and secret service as seen in most dictatorships
                            around the world through out time.  Since getting
                            beat down = fear, I think we're in agreement.
                            \- "we've replaced the political science dept
                               with a Civilization lab ..."
                       \_ In other countries.  Most moderate Muslims, before
                          9/11 and subsequent invasions, thought highly of
                          the United States, especially of our freedoms,
                          freedoms they would love to have in their countries.
                          But when you rain down bombs on them and start up
                          torture facilities why would they continue to help
                          us against the fruitcakes in their countries who
                          wish us harm?
                          \_ Exactly who are these moderate Muslims who
                             loved us so?  And you have the second part
                             backwards.  If they got rid of the fruit cakes
                             in their countries, there'd be no interest in
                             bombing them.
                                \_ http://tinyurl.com/dzngj
                                   "In Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim
                                    country, three quarters of the people
                                    said they were attracted to the United
                                    States. After the Iraq War, that had
                                    dropped to 15 percent."
                                \_ The United States WAS very popular in
                                   Muslim countries before 9/11 -- and so
                                   was President Clinton.  The fruitcakes
                                   can't do much without moderate support.
                                   \_ You're nuts.  What countries?  Are you
                                      aware, for example, how often Muslim
                                      countries vote with us in the GA at the
                                      UN?  Last I checked a few years ago it
                                      was averaging around 22% (during the
                                      Clinton years).  The fruitcakes are doing
                                      a-OK without moderate support.  Pick a
                                      year and get a history book and see how
                                      many acts of terror were committed around
                                      the world that year.  You can do it for
                                      almost any year from 1960-now and find
                                      something.  Not every year has a 9/11
                                      but there's some real doosies going all
                                      the way back.  You're living in a bubble.
                                      I think I've been trolled.
                                        \_ I even provided a link.  And the
                                           "fruitcakes" are going to have to
                                           work overtime for decades to come
                                           even remotely close to the # of
                                           civilians the USA has killed in
                                           the last 40 years, indirectly
                                           or directly.
                                           \_ Indonesia was never the source
                                              of Muslim terrorists and isn't
                                              part of the middle east and
                                              although it is the single
                                              largest Muslim populated
                                              country it is not a majority
                                              of Muslims.  As far as body
                                              count goes, how about 1 nuke?
                                              1 germ?  Are terrorists morally
                                              justified killing Western civ's
                                              until the body counts are equal?
                                              Madness.  Also, you completely
                                              ignored my comments on UN votes
                                              and the fact that terrorism
                                              pre-dates anything related to
                                              the current or previous several
                                              administrations.  IHBT.
                                                \_ Ok, you've convinced me
                                                   lets torture everyone as
                                                   payback for the nukes and
                                                   bio-weapons they've used
                                                   against us.
                                                   \_ i'm sure that'll happen
                                                      right after we stop
                                                      bombing indonesia.  oh
                                                      wait.  we never did that.
                                                      maybe next time, troll.
               \- well the US draws lines where it wants like "we feel it
                  is ok to torture irregular fighters who are not in
                  uniform, not serving in a national army" etc. if some
                  fellows in cambodia said "we believe it is ok to torture
                  downed pilots engaging in secret bombings to find out
                  when and where the next bombing run is" i am not sure
                  that is appreciably crazier. oh but BUSHCO will claim
                  it is completely difference because they wrote MEMOS.
                  it is completely difference because we wrote MEMOS.
                  \_ uhm, say what?  i'd like to respond but i'm not really
                     clear on exactly what point you're making so i'll leave
                     it until you clarify.
                     \- the source of a lot of resentment against the US
                        is their double standards over many things and their
                        ability to set agendas. e.g. free trade, ip pretection,
                        standards of PoW treatment, what weapons are reasonable
                        etc.
                        \_ All countries are like that.
                           \- all country may wish to be like that but they
                              are not in fact all like that. look up the
                              term "terms of trade". not all countries have
                              sec council vetos. not all countries can
                              dictate IMF policies etc.
                              term "terms of trade" (i mean the vaguer usage).
                              not all countries have sec council vetos. not
                              all countries can dictate IMF policies etc.
                              \_ they are all like that to the extent they
                                 are able.  double standards are what countries
                                 are all about.  that is inevitable when you
                                 acknowledge the natural "us vs. them" nature
                                 of their very existence and reason for being.
                                 \- you have defeated me.
                           \_ Not true. Sweden is not like that, nor is
                              The Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, etc.
                              \_ Those aren't countries.  They're counties.
                                 They also all live under the military umbrella
                                 of larger nations and have homogenous
                                 populations and no foreign policy of note
                                 since they lack a military or any real
                                 political or economic clout.  However, I
                                 believe Belgium had their share of colonies
                                 in the past and had no problem with all that
                                 entails.  Feel free to correct me on that if
                                 I have my history wrong.
                                 \- the congo was actually personally owned
                                    by king leopold, rather than being owned
                                    by the belgian state. he then left it to
                                    belgium in his will. that was a really
                                    nasty flavor of imperialism, even compared
                                    to other european powers in africa.
                                    you may wish to see King Leopolds Ghost
                                    etc. The author's sister teached at UCB.
                                 \_ You're wrong about Sweden not having a
                                    military. For its size its military
                                    spending has been rather high in recent
                                    decades as a policy of armed neutrality.
                                    Of course they must have benefited from
                                    NATO's opposition to Soviet aggression.
                                    Also it no longer has a homogeneous
                                    population as they too have taken on an
                                    immigrant population of Turks etc. I think
                                    that is true of Belgium and .nl also.
                                    They are countries in the traditional sense
                                    of the term; they just are not empires like
                                    the USA and Russia.
                                        \- i think the term you are looking
                                           for is "nation state". sweeden also
                                           has quite a militaristic past.
                                    \_ key phrase: "for its size".  This is a
                                       very small country.  If Ogo Pogo has 2
                                       people and one of them is "the army"
                                       that doesn't mean Ogo Pogo has a real
                                       military even though they're spending
                                       50% of their man power on the military.
                                       You get to the right idea at the end,
                                       though.  Sweden is too small to be of
                                       any real consequence on the world stage
                                       of power politics where things like
                                       torturing people matters.  Sweden is too
                                       small to be in a position to ever have
                                       captured anyone to torture or be really
                                       involved in anything important outside
                                       their immediate region.  This is a game
                                       for world powers and their lackeys.
                                    \_ But President Bush told me Sweden had
                                       no military! I also rely on Dan Quayle
                                       for spelling advice ...
        \_ It's interesting how this article was written:
           "General Hill had sent this list - which included prolonged
           isolation and sleep deprivation, stress positions, physical assault
           and the exploitation of detainees' phobias - to Secretary of Defense
           Donald Rumsfeld, who approved most of the tactics in December 2002."
           Rumsfeld approved /most/ of them.  Tell us, which ones were
           rejected? -emarkp
           \_ [Updated with better links]
              Here's Rummy describing what happened:
              http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/2004/tr20040713-secdef1001.html
              This was the request from GTMO to Rummy, upon which he accepted
              most and rejected a few, and six weeks later, rejected more:
              http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2004/d20040622doc3.pdf
              So which ones did Rumsfeld initially reject?  They're listed at
              the end:
              the end.  Which ones were rejected six weeks later?  Those are
              listed second to last:
              http://csua.org/u/e0g (usatoday.com)
           \_ According to this transcript, probably all of them (I *infer*)
              [that the author listed - sorry, wasn't clear about this],
              but Rummy said it was only for the 20th hijacker:
             http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/2004/tr20040713-secdef1001.html
              Also, "physical assault" probably meant the legal definition of
              assault, not punching or slapping them, which in this case just
              meant poking them among other things.  I like this part:
              I like this part ...
              Rummy:  "The techniques that you described were not used, I'm
              told, on anyone one other than Katani.  We may find out that's
              not correct at some point in the future, but at least my
              information thus far is that that's the case."
              This was the request to Rummy, upon which he accepted/rejected
              some, and six weeks later, rejected more:
              http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2004/d20040622doc3.pdf
              \_ So the reporter was a liar?  He said the list "/included/" x y
                 z and that Rumsfeld approved /most of them/.  So we have a
                 lists supposedly developed from SERE, some of which Rumsfeld
                 didn't approve.  So the entire claim of using methods we
                 learned because they were done to our soldiers which "include
                 abuse rising to the level of torture" is unfounded. -emarkp
                 \_ Huh, what exactly are you saying the reporter is lying
                    about?  Please suggest an easy one first, please be clear,
                    and please be concise.
                    \_ The reporter said "most" were approved.  The poster said
                       "probably all of them". -emarkp
                       \_ "all of them" that the author listed.
                          The last sentence in my post was pretty clear that
                          Rummy rejected/accepted some.
2005/11/10-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40532 Activity:nil
11/10   http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=809
        "The polling also finds that in most majority-Muslim countries
        surveyed, support for suicide bombings and other acts of violence in
        defense of Islam has declined significantly. ...
        A notable exception to this trend is Jordan, where a majority (57%) now
        says suicide bombings and other violent actions are justifiable in
        defense of Islam." (July 14, 2005)
        http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=206 (March 16, 2004)
        [note that support for suicide bombings against coalition forces in
        Iraq dropped from 70 to 49% in Jordan from the '04 to '05 reports]
2005/11/10-11 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40530 Activity:nil
11/9    Has anyone read this?
        [Long url deleted. You must shorten +80col URLs]
        \_ You're a prick.  You could just make a macro to replace a url with
           its shortcutted version rather than replacing it with that useless
           line.
           \_ Maybe, but you should do your part too.
        \_ Shortened link: http://csua.org/u/dz9
2005/11/10-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40528 Activity:nil
11/10   What freepers think of the riots in France (scroll down for pics)
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1519435/posts
        \_ Frankly I doubt whether most freepers know where France is.  -John
2005/11/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40527 Activity:kinda low
11/9    I find this informative:
        La Belle France: A country of equality and exclusion - Yahoo! News
        http://csua.org/u/dz4
        What does "La Belle France" mean?  Thx.
        \_ I assume "France the Beautiful"
        \_ I assume "France smells."
        \_ % dict belle
           A young lady of superior beauty and attractions...
           "La Belle France" == the hot French chick.
        \_ It means 'The Beautiful France'.
2005/11/10 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40526 Activity:nil
11/9    Has anyone read this?
        http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1566636434/002-6911668-5155237?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
2005/11/9-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40510 Activity:nil
11/9    French PM announces raft of measures for riot-hit poor suburbs
        http://www.forbes.com/finance/feeds/afx/2005/11/08/afx2324420.html
        \_ Thereby opening France up to yet another round of
           "cheese-eating surrender monkey" jokes.
           \_ Because you know, actually trying to solve problems is bad,
              instead you are supposed to just make the conditions worse,
              that always works!
           \_ In the US, if we have a riot, we know to keep all of residents
              in that area down for the next few decades. That'll teach them.
              Except for sports riots. Those are okay by us! We'll clean those
              up because the white folks would get upset if we didn't.
           \_ Well, have they learned any foreign policy other than
              appeasement?
              \_ it's domestic policy - you have to end up living with these
                 people
                 \_ Not if you send them back where they came from.  France,
                    love it or leave it.
                    \_ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4422422.stm
                       Apparently that's the policy.  Thanks for censoring
                       this.
                 \_ So next time they want more handouts they just riot again?
                    \_ didn't they do that before the bigger riots?
                       are you sure these are handouts?  (don't cherrypick
                       the package)
                       Anyway, in America we do it our way - National Guard
                       and more economic opportunity to begin with, and it
                       works (more or less).
                       In France they do it their way - no shooting at the
                       rioters, letting them do small-time rioting for
                       months/years, then finally giving them a real social/
                       economic pkg after their riot gets bigger.
                       All of a sudden applying the American method (shooting
                       them all) in France would probably make the situation
                       worse.  Whatever works for them.
                       \_ I remember Napoleon uses canons against riot mobs,
                          that worked too... 200 years ago.
                          \- Ultima ratio regum. --louis xiv
                          \- Ultima ratio regum. --louis le grand
2005/11/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40488 Activity:nil
11/8    "France's biggest Muslim fundamentalist organization, the Union for
        Islamic Organizations of France, issued a fatwa, or religious decree,
        that forbade all those "who seek divine grace from taking part in any
        action that blindly strikes private or public property or can harm
        others."
        http://csua.org/u/dyh (Yahoo! News)
        Is this smoke or are the fundamentalist really against the violence?
        \_ More likely, it's them realizing that you cannot have a fortnight
           of rioting without experiencing some serious lashback on the
           political front. They're trying to tell people that the point has
           has been made, the shark has been jumped, and, as Dave Chappelle
           would say, it's time to Wrap This Up!
           \_ Additionally, they're proving that the Muslim leaders have more
              power in France than the French government.
              \_ Good point! cf. Madagascar election, January 2003.
        \_ UOIF is run by a guy named Boubaker, who's a big moderate.  It's
           sort of semi-sponsored by the government; this is an attempt to
           exert some control over militant elements in the (mainly Algerian)
           muslim community by bringing pressure on some of the more radical
           mosques from within the community itself.  There's a fight between
           UOIF (which I wouldn't call "fundamentalist") and another, more
           conservative, organization about influence within the French Umma.
           To overly simplify, it's a matter of those who want to work within
           the system versus those who don't.  And no, muslims in France are
           a large group but they definitely don't have more power than
           "de gub'mint".  -John
2005/11/5-8 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40457 Activity:kinda low
11/5    Why doesn't the French government send in their military? It seems
        like they're doing a lot of talking but nothing else.
        \_ That *is* the French military!
        \_ They're afraid the military might try to surrender to the rioters.
           \- Aux armes citoyens
              Formez vos bataillons
              Marchons, marchons
              Qu'un sang impur
              Abreuve nos sillons
              \_ All bark and no bite.  I do remember being vastly amused
                 when we got Cabanne to sing the Marseillaise.  When's the
                 last time France was victorious in war?
                 \- Your search - french military victories - did not match
                    any documents. Did you mean french military defeats
                    \- according to an e'ist article, in a recent survey
                       of french people CdG is considered the GREATEST
                       FRENCHMAN EVER. I guess L9, L14, H4, F1, and the
                       brainiacs may have split the vote. maybe C0 wasnt
                       in the running on technical grounds. but surprised
                       CdG > N1.
                       \_ CdG benefits from memories and lack of historical
                          perspective. Cf. Churchhill someone outscoring
                          Nelson in the British version.
        \_ They are a bunch of incompetent pussies. They should have had a
           curfew within a couple days and started arresting people en
           masse and shooting resisters/rock throwers. Oh boo hoo my
           poor immigrant family is still poor and the ones living here
           for generations aren't poor! Let's burn some cars.
           \_ The rioters are incompetent too.  11 days and only 1 death.
              Rodney King riots had 50 dead after only 3 days.
              \_ That's true. But still I can't believe French police allow
                 themselves to be attacked without returning some serious
                 retribution. I guess they're terrified of escalating the
                 situation.
2005/11/2-4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40400 Activity:kinda low
11/2    Day 6 of rioting in France.  Riots are spreading.
        \_ I hope this opens up the eyes of Americans as to what is really
           going on in Europe. There is so much romanticizing, but the
           reality is that Europe's problems are deeper than our own.
           \_ yeah, because this has never happened in the U.S.
              \_ Europe claims these things *only* happen in the US.
                 \_ It does?  I need to pay attention to European ministry
                    of truth press releases more closely.  -John
                    \_ All of my family is European (Greek, Dutch, French,
                       German) and I hear the European side of things often -
                       not just from them, but from official sources of news
                       like newspapers. Americans are supposed to be
                       uncouth and heartless people who buy big-screen TVs
                       while letting poor black/Mexican people starve in
                       the streets. Europe has the cure for poverty. The
                       reality is that Europe mostly cares about *white*
                       Europeans, which is not surprising given the
                       history of the Dutch, English, Germans, French, etc.
                       So many liberals were looking to Europe as a model
                       for Arab/Western relations and social welfare and
                       this incident proves that thinking idiotic.
           \_ Since it's completely buried in all the major U.S. news sources,
              it's unlikely to "open the eyes" of very many Americans about
              anything.
              \_ Does "buried" mean in Yahoo! headlines?
           \_ Yeah, the place is falling apart at the seams.  Rape gangs and
              armed mobs run rampant; inflation is nearing the 1,000% mark in
              most Western European capitals, planes are falling from the sky
              and triffids are feasting on the rotting corpses of their
              victims.  London & Paris in flames, film at 11.  We urge you to
              stay in the US, where you'll be safe from the droogies.  -John
              \_ Really? Damn.  I guess I'll have to cancel my weekend plans
                 of putting my loudest Hawaii shirt and my plastic sandles
                 on and parking my 300 pound ass in your favorite restraunt
                 to shout into my cell phone about Nascar.
                 \_ My favorite restaurants don't let you in.  Enjoy shouting
                    into your phone outside, the glass is soundproof.  Saves
                    me $20 on a movie after.  -John
              \_ It's all just a media ploy to keep us away from all the hot
                 european women.
           \_ Yes, that has opened up my eyes.  Since Europe has been
              relatively pro-Arab compared to the US, I always thought that
              their Arab communities must have been better integrated.
              \_ I love how you say "Europe".  Anyway, less to do with Arabs
                 than with poor uneducated <insert ethnic group here> trash.
              \_ They are more racist than we are and their little
                 socialist experiment is proving no better than capitalism and
                 in some ways much worse. They like to turn their noses up at
                 us, but in truth they have the same (or more) problems.
                 By the way, they are not pro-Arab, but anti-Israel.
        \_ What can I say, it's a horrible place alright, full of horrible
           people.  -John
                 \_ I find the motd Europe troll pretty hilarious.  -John
                    \_ That's because Switzerland is not a member of the EU.
                       \_ And thank god at that.  But it's good to see
                          people catching on to how much things suck in the
                          little state of Europe, finally.  -John
2005/11/1-4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:40391 Activity:low
11/1    WHAT?! Could this possibly be true? " Sarkozy says that violence
        in French suburbs is a daily fact of life. Since the start of the
        year, 9,000 police cars have been stoned and, each night, 20 to
        40 cars are torched"
        http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/31/news/france.php
        \_ French cops won't go into a lot of suburban areas--I've not seen
           anything equivalent in the US to the massive areas of highrises
           you get in Italy, France, Spain and Germany--the crime is mad, and
           there's usually fairly volatile mixtures of African/N. African/
           E. European immigrants and very poor natives.  -John
           \_ How does a place get so bad even the cops won't go there?
              That's maddness.
              \_ They allow way too many poor immigrants in and provide free
                 housing for them in concentration. Why they do this is
                 unknown.
                 \_ cheap labor
                 \_ No, they just end up there because the housing is
                    inexpensive and many of the ethnic communities are the
                    natural place for new, poor immigrants to gravitate to.
                    Look at the the historical concentration of Russian,
                    Irish, Swedish, Mexican, Chinese, Puerto Rican, Irish,
                    Italian, &c arrivals to the US in the 19th century.  -John
                    \_ You making some kind of point about the Irish?  -mice
                       \_ Yeah, you wanna step outside for GUN DUEL, yer
                          corkie barstird?  -John
                          \_ Don't make me BLACKLIST you, ya limey barstard.
                                                                        -mice
                             \_ Sigh. We need more controversial words.
                                \_ I bet you never used controversial words.
                                   \_ I bet BUD DAY doesn't appreciate your
                                      tone, son.
2005/10/27-29 [Recreation/Activities, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40296 Activity:kinda low
10/27   Frenchman wants to play Women's British Open - PGA - Yahoo! Sports:
        http://csua.org/u/dub
        Yeah!
        \_ This is stupid.  You can consider the different leagues like
           weight classes in boxing.  If a middle-weight wants to fight
           in the heavy weight division you *let* him, that does not mean
           you let mike tyson fight in the bantum weight division just
           because he's washed up as a heavy weight. -phuqm
           \_ Are you saying that it's okay to allow women to play in Britisn
              Open, while it's stupid to allow men to play in Women's British
              Open?
              \_ I think that's exactly what he's saying.  Now, given that
                 golf is a game and not a sport, having different leagues
                 is silly... (flame shield on)  -John
              \_ I am indeed saying that; am I loosing my perspicuity? -phuqm
                 \_ it is a game, but one in which arm strength matters, which
                    requires different leagues for men/women. -phuqm
                    \_ Perhaps the Frenchman is abnormally weak?
                        \_ Excellent contribution to the thread.  thanks for
                           being so smart and relevant.
              \_ Close. It is okay to allow women to play in the British open
                 It is not o.k. to allow men to play in the Women's British Open\
                 and it is Stupid to equate one issue with the other. -phuqm.
                 It is not o.k. to allow men to play in the Women's British
                 Open and it is Stupid to equate one issue with the other.
                 -phuqm.
                 \_ This is gender discrimination then.  Women can play in both
                    tournaments while men can only play in one.
                        \_ Next thing you'll tell me is that you have to be
                           "challenged" to take part in the special olympics!
                           Bastards!
                           \_ If you are equating "female" to "challenged",
                              then okay, it makes sense for you to say that
                              this is not discrimination.  Now go ahead and
                              tell those feminists who demanded open door to
                              British Open about this.
                              \_ You don't understand this issue *at all*,
                                 do you?
                                 \_ The issue is that the Frenchman doesn't
                                    really want to win the Women's British
                                    Open.  He's just trying to make a point
                                    that since women are allowed in British
                                    Open for some stupid/justified reason, men
                                    Open for some "justified" reason, men
                                    should be allowed in Women's British Open
                                    for the same reason also.
                                    \_ It sounds like you need to work on
                                       your critical thinking skills, man.
                                    \_ It's a stupid point.  -tom
                     \_ OH NO! not GENDER DISCRIMINATION!!?!! I forgot that is
                        ipso facto "BAD"!
        \_ What is wrong w/ letting a nancy cheese eating surrender
           monkey play w/ the girls? Its not like a frenchie could
           compete w/ real men(tm).
        \_ On the average, men are better than women at golf.  But there
           are many women who are better than most men at golf.  The same
           might be said of black/white basketball players.  So, if we can
           have a women-only golf tourney, it would seem that we could also
           have a white-only (or Asian only) basketball league.
           And if there is some black guy who isn't good in basketball,
           then too bad.
           \_ But assuming this is at the highest levels, almost any pro man
              will beat almost any pro woman.  So it wouldn't be very fair.
2005/10/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40257 Activity:nil
10/25   http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051025/ts_nm/britain_mideast_bbc_dc_1
        "Chapman said the new Arabic channel would take advantage of the BBC's
        reputation for fairness and independence in the region."
        Is BBC really fair and unbiased?  I don't usually watch BBC news.  Thx.
           \- Yet did I never breathe its pure serene
              Till I heard Chapman speak out loud and bold:
              Then felt I like some watcher of the skies
              When a new planet swims into his ken;
        \_ All news has bias.  News reports are written and reported on by
           people.  Which stories become news and how big is decided upon
           by people.  People are biased.  "Fair" is not the same as "unbiased"
           and might be achievable in some cases because "fair" is determined
           by the audience and is not an absolute.  The quote above bothers
           me when they say, "... would take advantage of ...  reputation for
           fairness and independence ... ", which makes me think, "We're not
           fair or independent so we need cover", but that's just my take.
        \_ BBC is fairly consistently high quality.  It's not unbiased, and
           if you perceive the bias as being against you, you won't think it's
           fair.  YMMV.  -John
        \_ If BBC is unbiased, then, Al Jazeera would never existed!
           Al Jazeera was founded because the staff *REFUSED* to follow
           BBC's directive of self-censoring reports that annoys Saudi
           Royal Family.  It is funny that Al Jazeera is probably the most
           unbiased news channel (even more so than USA's main stream media),
           yet USA resort to use methods such as shutting down its website and
           even missile to silence them...
           \_ From the article: "Al Jazeera ...... has often shown video of
              hostages pleading at gunpoint for their respective governments to
              withdraw troops. It does not however broadcast footage of
              killings, which are posted on the Internet by militants."
2005/10/25-26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40254 Activity:nil
10/25   http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051025/od_nm/croatia_crime_dc
        German robber calls his mom and got caught. HEIL GERMANS!
        \_ Wouldn't you think a bank would take some precautions to
           encase/secure the transport vault for 7.2 million euros to
           make it difficult for one man to rob it?
           \_ Yeah, by hiring the security guard.
           \_ Banks often send regular employees to fetch cash when
              customers want large withdrawals. I don't know about $7.2
              million, but definitely hundreds of thousands.
              \_ "Hey Boss, sorry, I got really sick after that pickup and
                 had to go home.  I was dizzy and the doc gave me some stuff,
                 I'm really not sure what happened to the $7.2m".  :-)
              \_ There was a ca. $25m robbery in Zurich a few years ago--some
                 guys rammed a car into a courtyard where a post office cash
                 transport was being unloaded, brandished SMGs and got most
                 of the stash (they were all caught.)  VW had an ad for
                 its mid-size transport trucks a bit after, with the caption
                 "they could have taken it all along..."  -John
2005/10/21-24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40217 Activity:nil
10/21   "France Orders Positive Spin on Colonialism"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051021/ap_on_re_eu/france_gilding_history
        Japan is not alone.
        \_ It's ok as long as you're the doing it.
           \_ Huh?
        \_ you didn't know that until now?  60 years ago, as soon as they
           were liberated by the Allied Force, they went ahead re-occupies
           Algeria and "Indochina."
2005/10/19-21 [Recreation/Food, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40178 Activity:nil
10/19   My sister's music is featured at http://NPR.org under 'all songs
        considered' and can be listened to.  The name of the song is
        'Take a minute' from her previous CD 'I kid you not'.  Her name
        is Diane Marie Kloba.  I hope you enjoy it.  -ikiru
        \_ Congrats! Is she as hot as yermom?
        \_ See http://www.dianemariekloba.com ... ikiru's mom is currently about to
           go medieval on Florida.
2005/10/18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40158 Activity:nil
10/16   Another reason to hate France.
        http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4903
2005/10/9-11 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:40031 Activity:very high
10/9    got a speeding ticket.. a while back someone posted a
        website for a school on east bay that is easy or online..
        what was it? thanks
        \_ http://traffic101.com is easy and online --dbushong
           \_ they're morons. they ask for a state first.. then
              ask for a country after you pick the state....?
              \_ ...they were relatively inexpensive, you don't have to go
                 in to a physical testing center, and the test was pretty easy.
                 I wouldn't discount them solely on suboptimal interface design.
                 --dbushong
                 \_ There's nothing wrong with the interface design. It's
                    "county" not "country" which makes sense that they ask
                    you after the state.
        \_ why do people go to traffic school? the points still appear on your
           record and raise your insurance rates. it only matters if you got
           so many you might lose your license, right?
           \_ wrong, the points don't appear.  the catch is that you can't
              attend traffic school more than twice in an 18-month period.
              \_ even then you can still appear before a judge and cry and
                 get multiple chances to keep going to TS to avoid more points
                 or having your license revoked.  there was someone in my TS
                 session a few year ago who said she was one point from losing
                 hers (8 i think to lose it) and had been to traffic school
                 *several* times in the last year alone.  fear.  stay off the
                 streets if you want to survive with people like that around.
                 \_ Getting points is different than driving dangerously. I
                    have seen people driving below the speed limit who were
                    driving more dangerously than people who exceeded the
                    limit. Case in point, German drivers tend to drive much
                    faster than Americans but suffer fewer fatalities.
                    \_ uhm, yeah....  Points are for driving dangerously.
                       Where do I mention anything about the woman's speed?
                       I said she had a lot of points.  Points are not just
                       for going over the speed limit.  *boggle*
                                                        \_ hi mudder!
                        \_ Police in the US have a lot of leeway to give
                           tickets based on subjective criteria, which is why
                           you have recourse mechanisms such as going to
                           court.  -John
                           \_ dura lex, sed lex
                              \_ OK wiseass, so where do you draw the line
                                 between the law and its application?  I.e.
                                 do you believe in a 100% literal
                                 application of the law (cop gives you a ticket
                                 even though there's a burglary down the
                                 street, because hey, you're breaking the law)?
                                 Hey, sed lex, right?  The law must always be
                                 obeyed, citizen.  Always!  -John
2005/10/6-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:40005 Activity:nil
10/6   Bush:  "The militants believe that controlling one country will rally
       the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments
       in the region, and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from
       Spain to Indonesia." Replace a few words and you get the original
       Bush/neocon plan for spreading democracy in the Middle East. Neat trick!
        \_ Have you ever heard of the psychological term "projection"?
           90% of what comes out of that guys mouth is explained by it.
        \_ He and his gang of cronies may be a bunch of lying, incompetent
           fuckwits, but you need to seriously consider looking up the term
           "empire".  Or maybe that's one of your few words... -John
2005/10/4-6 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39973 Activity:nil
10/4    Apparently for real.  Pig images banned in British workplace:
        http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005450600,00.html
        \_ While in the USA, we are promoting pig images: http://www.energyhog.org
           It's like Smokey Bear or McGruff the Crime Dog, if bears were
           setting fires and dogs were selling crack and pimping hos.
        \_ Are they going to ban veils also, because it represents oppressions
           on females which offends feminism?
        \_ Are they going to ban veils also, because it represents oppression
           on females which offends feminists?
        \_ So muslims think that *images and symbols* of pigs are unclean? I
           can understand them not wanting pigs running around in the office,
           or any kind of farm animal in general.  I wouldn't want that either.
           \_ I suspect there is more to the story than written.
           \_ Jews don't like pigs either, right?
              \_ But Chinese people love pigs.
                 \_ All minorities are equal, but some minorities are more
                    equal than others.
        \_ http://dutchreport.blogspot.com/2005/02/dutch-flag-prohibited.html
                \_ ack, wtf?
                \- i think an interesting show down would be over the
                   hindu swastika vs. say jewish sentiments. the swastika
                   is a really important hindu symbol, not a marginal one.
                   it's used in the design for lots and lots of things and
                   you'll even see it incorportated into say a sari design.
                   \_ Yeah, it certainly shows up in a lot of Buddhist
                      stuff.  It's all over Korea because of that.  I
                      remember when I came back my brother had a cartoon
                      on his wall making fun of Nazis, who were
                      represented as a swastika.  My first thought was,
                      "Geez, what 'cha got against Buddhists?" -jrleek
                      \_ The Nazi's usually use the right-facing swastika while
                         the left-facing one is used in Buddhism.
2005/9/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39867 Activity:nil
9/25    Armed dolphins let loose by Katrina (not a joke)
        http://csua.org/u/di5 (UK Observer)
        \_ "Oh-oh. Sharks! The assassins of the sea! Oooh.  You're not sharks.
           You're dolphins.  The clowns of the sea."
           \_ Alcohol and night swimming.  Is there a better combination?
        \_ Snorky ... talk ... man ...
2005/9/25-28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39864 Activity:nil
9/24    http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb1108.html
        According to this Japan's gasoline is actually cheaper than
        Germany!!! How can that be?
2005/9/23-26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39842 Activity:low
9/23    German flasher flashed at an off-duty female police. Germany RULES!
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050923/od_nm/germany_flasher_dc
        \_ In other countries, crazy lunatics who pose a threat to society
           are thrown in jail. In this country, they're rewarded with
        \_ In other countries, left-wing nuts who pose a threat to society
           are thrown in jail. During the dot-coms, they're rewarded with
           nuclear launch codes and the most powerful military in the world.
           Thank goodness they lost 2 elections in a row. GOD BLESS!!!
           \_ You're mistaken. Bush thought he could get intern hummers out
              of it, then Cheney said he'd only qualify if he had a second
              term. Now Bush pissed because all of the interns are males with
              two-day stubble. He hates stubble.
2005/9/22-23 [Recreation/Food, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39818 Activity:nil
9/22    So it turns out that a bungload of British army emergency supplies
        and MRE-type food were to be burned as "unfit for human consumption."
        I forwarded this to a colleague in the US, who sent it to Feinstein's
        office just for shits and grins, and according to what they told him,
        nobody'd even heard of this.  This makes baby jesus cry.
        http://csua.org/u/dgx    -John
        \_ The end of this article reads:
           'The FDA said: "We did inspect some MREs (meals ready to eat) on
           September 13. They are the only MREs we looked at. There were 70
           huge pallets of vegetarian MREs.
           "They were from a foreign nation. We inspected them and then
           released them for distribution."'
2005/9/17-20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Travel] UID:39737 Activity:nil
9/17    What's the best way to find lodging in Europe for a non-student type
        who still wants a casual, hostel-oriented tour?  Does it vary from
        country to country, or am I consigned entirely to the drudgery of
        hotels and B&Bs?  I'll soon be 26, my Cal ID still looks reasonably
        like me, and I make enough to pay for hotels-- it's just that I find
        travel a lot more interesting if I don't have to make reservations.
        \_ This is always good: http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com or you could
           ask around.  It varies tremendously by where/when you want to go,
           what your budget is, and how much you want to see.  Don't knock
           B&Bs, there are some great ones around.  If you gave some more
           details, that would help.  -John
        \_ I second the Lonely Planet recommendation, though I've found it
           most useful to actually purchase a LP guide for the region, since
           that lists all the hostels. Hostelling International (HI) lets you
           book online. I know it's a bit of a pain to book ahead, but (from
           experience) it's a lot better than arriving at a city and either
           a) spending hours trekking around with a bag to find a place or
           b) sleeping in a campground with no tent because all the places
           are full.
           \_ Totally agree.  You should get an LP anyway (and always do your
              own research regardless.)  Their online forums are just very
              good to get other peoples' first-hand opinions.  -John
        \_ LP is great, but go to http://hostels.com or http://hostelworld.com if
           you want a list of all the hostel options.
2005/9/17-20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39733 Activity:nil
9/17    Dear German John, do you have any more funny foreign videos to share,
        like that black German Gunther from MTV?  -bored & overweight sysadm
        \_ Dear Canadian fatso:  I vill check for you.  -John
           \_ Dear John, how did you know I'm a Canadian? I used ssh to
              hide my identity so there's no way you'd know. Do you have root?
              Dude, this is so UNCOOL. You're abusing root. Isn't this
              unethical, and a squishable offense? I feel violated. -op
              \_ The flapping head?
2005/9/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39727 Activity:low
9/17    "A Japanese woman called in the police after a hitman she paid to
         kill her lover's wife failed to carry out the job."
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050916/od_nm/japan_hitman_dc
        \_ Wow.  "Move over Germany!"
           \_ What the hell does this have anything to do with Germany?
              \_ Someone was claiming the Germans had the lock on odd, bizarrely
                 stupid behavior.
              \_ They're both defeated nations and breed insecurity within.
                 For example Siegfried and Roy were born from former Nazis
                 and after the defeat they became depressed drunkard, and
                 raised up psychologically fucked up gay/lesbian/shit eating
                 German children. Ditto with the Japanese.
                 \_ Wow, you think fucked up shit comes from only these two
                    nations, huh?
                    http://www.bpninc.com/evideo/video_mac_hi.mov
                    \_ Wow BRILLIANT where/how did you find these links?
        \_ In the same vein: http://csua.org/u/df2
2005/9/14-16 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39688 Activity:low
9/14    What does "I have an enormous iron stand" mean in German figuratively?
        \_ Ask heil cherman john guy, he usually knows these things.  -John
           \_ No response from him. Please answer John, thanks.
              \_ It's as close to "my turgid manhood is mighty and
                 strong" as "my hovercraft is filled with eels."  I
                 suggest you try it on a female German exchange
                 students.  The especially burly ones tend to be
                 receptive to that sort of thing around now.  -John
                 \- by "iron stand" do you mean "tripod", as in
                    3 legged object. --psb
                    \_ Chiapet!
                       \- see "patrick" character on BBC "coupling" show
        \_ It's more elequent in German. I have a big iron stand and
           I want you. SAY IT! Ich habe einen riesigen Eisenstaender und ich
           bin Schwuchtel.
2005/9/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39680 Activity:kinda low
9/14    Dear German John, why don't you date AZNs like most of the
        soda geeks here? Do you only talk to your kind? Are you a RACIST???
        \_ I am not a racialist.  -John
           \_ i thought John is a Nipponfile.
2005/9/14-15 [Recreation/Pets, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39676 Activity:kinda low
9/14    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050914/od_nm/germany_cats_dc
        German invertor creates renewable fuel. A newspaper say he
        uses dead cats as the source but he denies it. Fucking Krauts.
        \_ Maybe he can improve the technology to use lying politicians and
           all our energy problems will be solved.
        \_ What's wrong with using dead cats?
           \_ Yeah they should use Hilary and her Democratic minions.
              \_ Dead fat cats?
        \_ You know, if he were born 60 years ago, he'd use Jews as
           a renewable resource. I mean, they're pretty cheap.
           \_ Holocaust on your plate!
           \_ Wait, you mean 1) they're plentiful, so they're cheap to find
              or 2) that Jewish people are cheap, as in frugal cheap? Which
              one do you mean?
        \_ Its about time someone figured out a good use for cats.
           And any time you need a fill up just run over a cat!
2005/9/10-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39619 Activity:low
9/10    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sz.html
        CIA publishes statistics on other countries. According to this
        Switzerland's "Distribution of Family Income Gini Index" is 33.1,
        which is higher than socialistic Denmark (<25), but less than
        capitalistic United States (+45), and much less than corrupted
        Brazil (61). However their poverty line is "NA." Ditto with
        Denmark and other evil socialistic countries. What does
        that mean, that they don't have any poor people? That is
        preposterous. All countries should have poor people.
           \- gini coeficient is a measure of distribution. are you interested
              in absolute numbers? you can also look at the hum dev reports
              from the undp. see e.g. http://hdr.undp.org if you are a
              serious and have a somewhat specific inquiry, you can mail me.
              i dont know much about europe but know a little bit about
              LDCs. obviously what is the poverty line in the US is
              more than a order of mag higher than two global poverty
              numbers you often see: # living on less than $1/day and
              $2/day. just like for very wealthy persons, salary doesnt
              characterize their income and wealth well, at the low end
              cash income may not characterize people's circumstances
              well, e.g. in agricultural sector, e.g. somebody who makes
              an appreciable part of their income in say goat milk.
              latin am countries are sort of the std example of high gini
              coef countries [not including african kleptocracies] . some
              studies suggest there may be a trade off between growth rate and
              gini coef ... it make make sense to trade off some more
              inequality for greater growth. BTW, there are a lot of
              statistical factors that hidden in this one number ... so
              you cant necessarily compare them easily [like can have same
              gini coef with diff shape of lorentz curve. and same underlying
              income distribution with quartile sampleing vs dectile sampling
              will give you diff values].
              \_ This is too dense. Can I just say something to the effect
                 that the lower the Gini value, the more that the country
                 cares about poor people? Most the social/comu countries have
                 low Gini whereas evil 3rd world countries like Brazil have
                 extremely high Givi values. The exception is USA, which has
                 one of the highest Gini values even though it's not a 3rd
                 world country.
                 \- "how much a country cares about poor people" cannot
                    be reasonably captured in a number. even the south
                    african state under apartheid may have spent more
                    on the per capita health of black people than per capita
                    public health expenditures in say india but india had
                    various affirmative action programs in the political
                    sphere which didnt exist in SA. you might want to look
                    at Amartya Sen: Development as Freedom. AKS has written
                    a lot more on this kind of thing but some of it is a
                    little "dense". at equal PPP would you rather live in
                    cuba or the US?
        \_ We used to, but we turned them all into soylent green for all
           the poor people in Denmark.  -John
           \- gini coeficient is a measure of distribution. are you interested
              in absolute numbers? you can also look at the hum dev reports
              from the undp. see e.g. http://hdr.undp.org if you are a
              serious and have a somewhat specific inquiry, you can mail me.
              i dont know much about europe but know a little bit about
              LDCs. obviously what is the poverty line in the US is
              more than a order of mag higher than two global poverty
              numbers you often see: # living on less than $1/day and
              $2/day. just like for very wealthy persons, salary doesnt
              characterize their income and wealth well, at the low end
              cash income may not characterize people's circumstances
              well, e.g. in agricultural sector, e.g. somebody who makes
              an appreciable part of their income in say goat milk.
              latin am countries are sort of the std example of high gini
              coef countries [not including african kleptocracies] . some
              studies suggest there may be a trade off between growth rate and
              gini coef ... it make make sense to trade off some more
              inequality for greater growth. BTW, there are a lot of
              statistical factors that hidden in this one number ... so
              you cant necessarily compare them easily [like can have same
              gini coef with diff shape of lorentz curve. and same underlying
              income distribution with quartile sampleing vs dectile sampling
              will give you diff values].
              \_ We sent all the goat milk to Denmark to let them wash down
                 the poor people soylent green.  Anyway, you want the Fazio
                 coefficient, which shows how much state cash you can move
                 to la familia and still keep your job.  -John
        \_ High Gini, no poor:                  Low Gini, some poor:
                   /                                  |
                  |                                   /
                  |                                  /
             _____/                                 /
            /                                      /
           /                                    __/
2005/9/8-10 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39579 Activity:nil
9/8     A not so bright German thief got arrested. What is it about Germans?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050908/od_nm/germany_thief_dc
2005/9/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39418 Activity:nil
9/1     http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1759273,00.html
        So is there a liberal/conservative/libertarian/sodan/moderate view on
        this?
        \_ Great. Now how am I supposed to take a crap in the pool when
           they are filming me?
2005/9/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Finance/Investment] UID:39411 Activity:nil
9/1     Euro-denominated investments were all the rage on motd.  Did anyone
        actually go through with the investments?  How did people do?
        \_ I did badly. I started around April and the strong dollar kept
           fucking the investment up. I've lost maybe 8% from New Zeland and
           Euro. Euro a bit worse. That's ok. Warren Buffet lost even more.
           I think he lost well over 200 million over his billion dollar
           investment overseas. I'm not worried though. This is for the
           long term investment. Just as the Japanese yen took decades to
           decline, the US economy is looking a lot like Japan 15 years ago,
           so I still believe in Warren Buffet. I am sticking to my guns.
           Don't get me wrong, I know Buffet started it in the early 2000s
           and did pretty well whereas I started late, at the worst possible
           point. However, Buffet isn't pulling out his 31 billion investment
           overseas, and I'm not pulling out my mine (in the thousands) either
           \_ Buffet can afford to take risks and losses and wait in a way
              I doubt you can.
        \_ I've owned LOGI for a long time, +156%.
           Since the election I've bought SAP (+10.7%), PHG (+4.3%), and
           MAPTX (+6.2%).  -tom
        \_ I have EUROX since 11/2003. +89%. But it's only half EURO, since
           it also invests in Russia.
           Like Tom, I have MAPTX (+42% since 11/2003), but that's AsiaPac,
           not EURO.
           Others - MACSX (+28% 11/03) (AsiaPac conservative)
                    MJFOX (+28% 11/03) (Japan)
                    TAVIX (+12% 12/04) (int'l)
                    IFN (+81% 11/03) (india)
                    MCHFX (+12% 11/03) (china)
                        (I think I am dumping this soon since I bought china
                          internet stocks (snda, ntes, ctrp)).
                    also lots of foreign stocks: crxl, rtp, pbr, btm,
                        rio, snda, ntes, ctrp, idbe, mbt, ...
                    my only us holdings are: ffiv, nile, dvy, brufx, mot,
                        desc (got lucky with desc - doubler in 3 months)
                        brufx is a really cool 1 man fund.  check it out.
                        (I think I am dumping this soon and buy china
                          internet stocks (those with nice profit)).
        \_ I posted a nice long reply, but someone stomped it. No way
           I am typing all this in again. The short answer is, yes. -ausman
           \_ Please post it again, I wanna know.  Also, what are you
              investing in these days?
2005/8/30 [Computer/Companies/Yahoo, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39350 Activity:low
8/28    Why is it that Germans are dominating Yahoo's Oddly Enough section?
        Is this a conspiracy from the Jewish dominated Yahoo to get
        back at Germans? I've listed a few examples:
        - German mayor criticized for welcoming S&M festival
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050830/od_nm/wowereit_festival_dc
        - German cat burglar
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050830/od_nm/germany_cat_dc
        - German man scratching large penis-shapes into 300 cars arrested:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050826/od_nm/germany_vandal_dc
                \_ "German man scratching large penis ..."  What?
        - German beer drinking has Shroeder ahead:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050826/od_nm/germany_election_dc
        - German women crashes her car because of a spider:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050825/od_nm/germany_spider_dc
        - German Honecker offends in Berlin:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050825/od_nm/germany_honecker_dc
                \_ This one isn't oddly enough.
        - 76 year old German male attacks a woman over his favorite chair:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050824/od_nm/germany_pensioner_dc
        - Why Germans stink more, literally
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050801/od_nm/germany_fungus_dc
                \_ What's with this title? It makes no sense dumbass.
                   The thing "literally" stinking is the fungus.
                   \_ Why does no one in the CSUA have any sense of humour any
                      more?
                      \_ Because we're American, and have senses of "humor"?
        \_ It's a result of inbreeding.  --PM
           \_ Is John an example of inbreeding?
              \_ No, I'm an example of what the stud geniuses of this world
                 could be breeding if they weren't all at yermom's house.
2005/8/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39337 Activity:nil
8/29    A town called F___ing in Australia in controversy:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050828/wl_uk_afp/britainaustriaoffbeat
        \_ Austria != Australia. And this is a pretty old story... I guess
           AFP recycles these things.
        \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fucking_austria_small.jpg
2005/8/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39321 Activity:nil
8/28    Does this mean the House cafeteria stopped calling them Freedom Fries?
        http://csua.org/u/d6g (Yahoo News)
2005/8/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39320 Activity:nil
8/28    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050826/od_nm/swiss_stonethrowing_dc
        Unspunnenstein -- why the Swiss are stupid.
        \_ Do remind me, how'd you make the logical leap between flooding +
           predilection towards throwing large objects + kleptomania = stupid?
2005/8/26-29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39295 Activity:nil
8/26    Everytime I go to Yahoo Odd News I see some German guy/gal doing
        something crazy or stupid. What is it about the Germans?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050826/od_nm/germany_vandal_dc
        \_ Adam Carolla (Loveline, Man Show) has a bit he calls "Germany
           or Florida" where he talks about some stupid stunt and callers
           have to guess where it happened. He points out that weird stuff
           always seems to happen in Germany or Florida.
           \_ or reported more often in .de or FL.  If some of that
              stuff happened say in SF, would anyone even blink an eye?
              \_ Have you read any of Carl Hiaasen's fiction or Elmore
                 Leonard's? I think they often write about Florida (and both
                 live there) because batshit crazy makes for good fiction.
                  -- ulysses
2005/8/16-17 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39134 Activity:moderate
8/15    Meet the new German NPD, same as the old German NSDAP:
        http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/08/16/neo_nazis/index.html
        \_ Somebody cracked one of their servers and found records detailing
           donations from illegal neo-nazi groups (the NPD is a "legitimate"
           party) and anonymously forwarded it to the German cops, who don't
           have the same restrictions on acquisition of evidence... -John
           \_ hmm.  Does that qualify as "white hat" or "black hat" hacking?
              \_ Good question.  The guys who did it told me they felt pretty
                 white hat.  Makes you think, though.  -John
2005/8/13-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39112 Activity:nil
8/13    Awesome Roger Ebert review of "Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo"
        http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050811/REVIEWS/50725001
2005/8/13-15 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39108 Activity:nil
8/13    Military exercises good for endangered species:
        http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050808/full/050808-14.html
2005/8/9-11 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39066 Activity:nil
8/9     News media save lives of sailors on Russian mini-sub
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/russiamilitary
        "When the worried family tried to find out from the navy what the
        chances were of seeing their loved one again, a military psychologist
        arrived. 'This is Russia -- pray!' he told Miloshevsky's wife Yelena"
        \_ This is a very heartening story that illustrates the importance
           of a free press. Thanks for sharing.
2005/8/8 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:39039 Activity:nil
8/8     Hahaha
        "The real issue, of course, is that Novak has a long history of
        bullying and abusing lower-level employees, whom he terrorizes with his
        angry outbursts over such vital areas of newsgathering as how to pop
        his popcorn just so, or like when he reduced a former colleague of mine
        to tears when he asked here how many Jews her family had transported
        to the death camps (this woman was of German ancestry)."
        http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2005/08/oral_sadist_suf.php
        \_ Yeah, how many did her family transport? Damn Germans.   -jew #1!!
           \_ Not enough.
        \_ Why should we believe what "DC Media Girl" says?
           \_ Because she's Clara Frenk
              \_ http://www.outfoxed.org/FeaturedInterviewees.php#Frenk
                 (For those who, like me, still didn't know who she was)
              \_ Which doesn't mean squat to me.  Where has the claim been
                 corroborated, or is this merely another anonymous source?
                 \_ Oh for fuck's sake.  It's just gossip, illustrating a
                    general point that Novak is known amongst the DC press
                    corps as a total flaming asshole.
2005/8/4-8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38998 Activity:low
8/4     Shadow defence minister Gerald Howarth says that extremist Muslims
        should leave Britian.
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=358019&in_page_id=1770
        Amusingly, he could be refering to George Galloway.
        http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=788
        \_ The French have been pissed off at the British for a long time now
           for allowing extremist Algerians to operate with impunity.  Wanting
           fuckwits like Abu Hamza Al Masri to leave is not necessarily a
           Bad Thing. -John
           \- that fellow is like a bad guy out of a movie ... i mean the
              eye patch s one thing, but an eye patch and a hook! i wonder
              if he has to be defanged before flying. ok tnx. --psb
           \- that fellow is like a bad guy out of a movie ... half blind and
              hooks for hands? if he has to be defanged before flying. ok tnx.
              hooks for hands? he has to be defanged before flying? ok tnx.
              \_ Partha, the directorate approves of your comments.
2005/8/2-4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38952 Activity:nil
8/2     French men can bike but they can't fly.
        \_ Do we call French airline passengers Freedom Fries now?
2005/8/2-4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38946 Activity:nil
8/2     Can we PLEASE get a petition of Douglas Adams fans together to name
        the 10th Planet "Rupert?"
        http://csua.org/u/cwb (yahoo! news)
        \_ Dear god, I hope your petition not only fails, but is subsequently
           taken out back and shot.  twice.
        \_ you mean 9th, amirite??
           \_ Someone didn't read Mostly Harmless.
              \_ Someone is going to be a pathetic geek all his life.
                 \_ There's an irony in calling someone a "pathetic geek" on
                    the CSUA motd, but it may very well be lost on you.
2005/8/2-4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38938 Activity:nil
8/2     Best headline ever:
        http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=337901&cc=5901
        \_ Seconded.
           \_ Thirded
        \_ How about this one: http://csua.org/u/cw5
           \_ AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!
           \_ Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
           \_ Yuck!
2005/8/2-4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38937 Activity:nil
8/2     In Europe, ground floor is 0 instead of 1.
        \_ No, Ground floor is "ground floor".  Not "0"
        \_ The question is whether the "first floor" is 1 or 2.
        \_ Survery: Countries/regions where the floor above ground floor is:
           1st floor: Europe
           2nd floor: USA
                      Hong Kong
                      Japan
           \_ What makes people think this is regional? I have been in both
              types of buildings even in the same office complex.
              \_ The architect should be shot.
                 \_ Not the same building, but the same campus. I'm sure there
                    were different architects.
           \_ My apartment in Oakland (~1910 hotel) had G, 1, 2, 3
              \- the ground floor convention depends on whether the
                 bldg was designed by an analyst or a number theorist.
2005/8/1-4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38921 Activity:nil
8/1     http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050802/ap_on_re_us/lesbian_country_club
        Up yours emarkp, it's a glorious day for the gay community.
        \_ My anonymous troll is back!  And he's making less sense than ever.
           Hi anonymous troll! -emarkp
        \_ Somehow I kinda doubt emarkp wants it "up his."
           \_ You'd be surprised
              \_ Silly anonymous troll.  Homophobia is just fine here on motd,
                 glad you could join. -emarkp
        \_ Dang, the trolls just get lamer and lamer.
           [Oh, and please don't delete my responses if you leave your troll,
           Mr. Anonymous Troll.]
2005/7/15-18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38633 Activity:kinda low
7/15    OTM (Other Than Mexican) crossings have nearly doubled this year, after
        a record year in 2004.
        http://csua.org/u/cpu [reuters]
        \_ Great policy: "Mexicans caught by U.S. border patrols trying to
           enter the country illegally are usually immediately returned to
           their native land. Many simply wait a day and then try to sneak into
           the country again."
           Even greater policy: "If their (OTMs') names do not appear, they are
           normally released on their own recognizance and told to appear at a
           deportation hearing often months in the future. Some 85 percent fail
           to show up for the hearing and are never seen again."
           What a great country!!!
           \_ what should we do?  maim them?  rip off an arm?  "hey
              don't let that guy with 1 arm in here!"
              \_ That's cruel. How about a 1 month tattoo, or taking their
                 eyebrows out?
                 \_ I've had worse!
           \_ Why do the other 15% even bother to show up for the hearing
              anyway?
           \_ We should just shoot them.
           \_ Cane them!
                 \_ ... left nut?  It doesn't seem to hurt Lance!
                    \_ Oh shit--millions of really fast bicycle-riding illegal
                       immigrants?  The border patrol will never catch them
                       now.  -John
              \_ What do other countries usually do to people trying to sneak
                 in through the border?
                 \_ Plane back to Africa as that's where most of the illegal
                    ones in Europe come from (since they made most of Eastern
                    Europe part of the club.)  The Mediterranean is kind of
                    more difficult to cross 5 times than the Rio Grande.. -John
2005/7/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Reference/History/WW2/Germany] UID:38610 Activity:nil
7/13    Dear German John, I'm learning German and it's a lot of fun. Grammar
        is very similar, and some words are similar. However, I have problem
        pronouncing certain words, like (how you spell in English)
        "IcHHHH SpriHHHHHen NicHHHHt English" probably cuz I don't normally
        use the throat often. In fact, I find that after only 20 mins of
        practicing, my throat gets really dry. Is this normal, or am I
        using my throat the wrong way? Danke Deutche John.
        \_ Drink a lot of hefeweizen and smoke some stinky eurofag cigarettes,
           the next morning you'll get that special born & bred in der
           teutonic vunderland hockaloogie sound.  -John
           \_ Are you serious this works? I tried it but my throat
              sound is still weak. I want to sound very throaty like those
              speakers on my language CD
              \_ You don't have to sound throaty. My german relatives never
                 had that deep throat thing. It varies by region too. They were
                 from Bavaria.
           \_ So is it better to use lots of throat or little throat? Just
              as I don't want to learn Ebonics English, I also don't want
              to learn German that sounds low-class. I do like the idea of
              using a lot of throat. It sounds aggressive, persuasive,
              somewhat charming, and really gets your attention. In
              another word I really like the way Hitler talks even though
              I disagree with his methods.
              \_ He was Austrian.  They've got more of a jolly rolling vowel
                 thing than an "ACHTUNG, ZE PANZERS ARE ROLLING" accent.  Same
                 with Bavarians, but they have sort of an edge to it--like they
                 can get the entire Hofbrauhaus to jump up and go invade
                 Poland.  Scotch & Sodas, Los!  -John
2005/7/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/Abortion] UID:38543 Activity:nil
7/11    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4673421.stm
        Abortion is illegal in Portugal. I bet Bush is very proud of Portugal
        \_ Does this mean that if you plan to take an Eurotrip to get laid,
           you should skip Portugal altogether? What country is the best for
           an Eurotrip?
           \_ Berlin, definitely Berlin
              http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050711/od_nm/germany_prostitute_dc
           \_ Amsterdam is good for hookers, but go to Prague for lots of
              hotties to score the old-fashioned way.
           \_ I did an OIF thing in Budapest, and half the attendees were
              hooking up with locals.  According to one of my buddies, you
              can't lose with a fistful of dollars in one hand and a US
              passport in the other.
              \_ What's an OIF?
                 \_ Optical Internetworking Forum.  http://www.oiforum.com
2005/7/8-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Health/Women] UID:38493 Activity:nil
7/8     Cycle mania in Brittain:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050708/od_nm/britain_cycles_dc
        \_ This is too cool:  http://www.addisonlee.com/taxybikes.html
           A lot of friends of mine have taken to these (Virgin also had
           something similar called a limoucycle or bikousine)  -John
2005/7/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38484 Activity:moderate
7/8     I'm having a tough time understanding why someone would want to plant
        a bomb in a train, bus, &c. to kill random ppl (I'm assuming that this
        was not an assassination). To me it seems like you could better spend
        you time taking out strategic targets (perhaps random people are
        strategic targets, and I just don't get it).
        Can someone recommend a book (or other src) that might explain the
        psychology/strategy behind this type of activity? tia.
        \_ That's why it's called TERRORism.  Spread panic, make people think
           "it can happen to you".  It's known as hitting "soft targets", which
           are more difficult to defend without impeding everyone's daily life,
           and strategic targets require more resources & planning.  -John
           \_ Let's be serious, there is no clear definition of the word
              "terrorism."  Afgan's mujahedeem is a prime example.  When
              they were fighting the Soviets in the 1980s, we call them
              "freedom fighter."  Now, we call them "terrorist."  The word
              "terrorism" is similar to the word "counter-revolutionay"
              in both meaning and its context.  It is a purposely vague
              word to accuse those who in power think need to be dealt with.
        \_ Compare the costs of trying to protect the entire nation from
           terrorist strikes compared to a few key buildings and government
           officials.  The terrorists want to take down the US/Western
           economies.  It's relatively cheap to protect the President compared
           to securing every port, train, airport, bridge, etc.
        \_ It probably changed the outcome of the election in Spain, even
           though that was more because the outgoing party pretended it wasn't
           al Qaeda and blamed Basque separatists instead.
           \_ an in that respect the people of spain rewarded the terrorists
              and probably inspired them to repeat it in London.
              \_ how can you re-elect people caught a couple days before a
                 close election in a glaring lie?  Practically speaking.
                 \_ Works for the Bush administration
        \_ They're fighting a democracy.  The 'terror' bombings  are not
           militarily significant.  That's not the goal. The goal is to make
           the people try to persuade their government to pull out.  If this
           works to that end, it'll only embolden the terrorists to do more.
           \_ You think the bombing was by/in the name of Iraqis?
             \_ whether it really was or not, the al queda group that claimed
                responsibility said as much.
        \_ Sometimes this sort of thing works. Most of the time, when the
           goal is to drive out a foreign invader. See Algeria vs. France,
           Isreal vs. Britain, Vietnam vs. USA or any number of colonial wars.
           Israel vs. Britain, Vietnam vs. USA or any number of colonial wars.
           \_ The only good examples here is Vietnam--other pullouts were due
              to intl. (mainly US) pressure; France had actually pretty much
              won in Algeria, but public anger over the activities of the OAS
              brought down the government.  -John
              \_ Depends on whose history book you read I guess:
                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War_of_Independence
                 According to wikipedia, the French had already agreed to
                 the referendum that eventually granted Algeria independence
                 before the OAS's terror campaign. In any case, the Algerians
                 successfully won their independence and terror was a big
                 tactic that they used to gain it.
                 \- advisory: Battle of Algiers is an interesting movie.
              \_ Here is my question of the day to you, John:
                 What is the difference between Nazi's occupation of France
                 versus French occupataion of Algeria and so-called
                 "Indo-China?"
                 \- A better example might be US & Japan/Germany vs
                    US and Philippines. War time and post-conflict
                    occupations are not quite the same as "normalized"
                    colonial relations. I think you need to frame what
                    kind of "differences" you are interested in other
                    wise envrythign risks being sui generis. I dont find
                    this a great book, but Michael Watlzer's "Just and
                    Unjust Wars" goes into a lot of detail about some
                    issues that have cropped up in the MOTD lately.
                    Actually it might be worth reflecting on whether
                    the Soviet Union has "colonies" ... since those occupations
                    were of much longer duration than the germans in france.
        \_ The shift to non-symbolic (non-government/financial/corporate)
           targets reflects the changed nature of AQ. Command and control from
           post-Afghan invasion AQ is limited. The attacks on Madrid and London
           were by groups inspired by AQ, not AQ itself. The incidents were not
           suicide attacks and there are reports that some devices didn't go
           off (lack of experience). My guess is these attacks are ego and
           vengence driven. These are announcements of group existence and
           designed to promote fear as opposed to forcing real political or
           idealogical change. This is the work of Angry Young Men.
           ideological change. This is the work of Local Angry Young Men, not
           foreign terrorists shipped in to do a job.
           \- it's funny you should use the expression "angry young men"
              w.r.t. to the *london* bombing.
2005/7/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Canada] UID:38462 Activity:high
7/7     Poll, who do you think is behind the London attack?
        IRA:
        Osama:
        Muslim fundie:
        Local British:
        \_ havent heard from IRA for a while, what happened?
           \_ They declared a cease fire in 1997. Some splinter group
              did some minor stuff since then, but mostly it has held.
        Osama:
        Muslim fundie:
        Lord British:
        \- possibly a self-help AQ "franchise" ... who may not have hierachical
           ties to OBL but wont be disowned by AQ-Central.
        French Olympians:
        CIA:
        The chickens are coming home to roost:
        http://csua.org/u/cmy
        \_ If this in any way shape or form is meant to imply that "they are
           now paying for xyz", you are a fucking baboon.  If not, ignore this.
           The fucking cunts who do this sort of stuff HATE YOU.  THEY HATE YOU
           BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO BEARD AND BECAUSE YOUR SISTER KNOWS HOW TO READ.
           THEY DON'T NEED AN EXCUSE.  There, just had to get that out of my
           system.  -John
           \_ You don't fight terror with more terror. That just leads to
              situations like Northern Ireland and Gaza. Who cares if someone
              10,000 miles away doesn't like me, if he leaves me alone, I will
              leave him alone. The vast majority of the world feels the same
              way I do. Only a few crackpots want to hunt down everyone who
              lives differently than them and exterminate them. These few
              crackpots, on both sides, have somehow taken control of world
              military and foreign policty.
              \_ I was making no statements about how to fight it.  I simply
                 stated that the whores who do this do not need a justification
                 for their acts--your very way of life suffices.  Yes, I know
                 that a lot of American international policy is flawed, but to
                 be honest, I think kidnapping a few people and sending homw
                 a finger or two is not beyond the pale and can be very
                 effective.  -John
              \_ do you think the united states and our citizens would have
                 the same standard of living if we didn't mess with the rest of
                 world and just took your isolationist/conservative view of the
                 world?
                 \_ Yeah, we might have to live like Canadians or Swedes.
                    \_ You think the entire West doesn't benefit from the US
                       being as it is?  You think Canada could afford to be so
                       happy-go-lucky if they had to defend themselves like
                       nations traditionally have had to do so?  We live in a
                       unique period of history where one global hyper power
                       has taken a reasonably benevolent stance towards the
                       rest of the world, allowing most people to get on with
                       living.  If the US were the vicious bastards some make
                       us out to be, Canada would be the first nation to fall.
                       \_ No, I don't think Canada or even the United States
                          really benefits from the flawed "beat them until
                          they love you" strategy. Let's look at it with
                          regards to a similar, but domestic problem. If the
                          United States decided that the best way to deal
                          with gang violence was to bomb neighborhoods where
                          gang members were known to live and to order air
                          strikes on gang members homes, killing the gang
                          member and his family alike, do you think it would
                          decrease or increase the amount of violence in
                          America?
                          \_ False framing.  Let's look at it another way: if
                             the US decided to deal with gang violence by using
                             special forces to knock on doors, confiscate
                             weapons/drugs, arrest those with caches and shoot
                             those who resist violently, do you think gang
                             violence would increase or decrease?  Anyway,
                             this is not at all what I was getting at.  My
                             point being that your conservative/isolationist
                             head-in-sand strategy will not make the world a
                             better place for anyone but dictators and other
                             assorted brutal murderers.
2005/7/7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38447 Activity:nil
7/6     http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/german/quickfix/coolgerman.shtml
        UK BBC has a great page on learning German. BTW they also teach
        you how to say "Gibt es hier einen Schwulenclub". Is this one
        of those lame attempts at humour?
        \_ http://csua.org/u/cmi  anyway, as we all know, all Germans are
           black turtleneck wearing homosexual pseudo-intellectuals, or beefy
           militaristic beach-towel-pool-chair-occupiers.  -John
           \_ German Teacher, Andrea Hoffman from Humboldt Univ is a BABE!
              Check her out! Babes like her make me want to move to Germany
              to meet pretty German babes, to learn beautiful sounding
              German language, and to eat world famous German food.
              http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/german/lj/intros/index.shtml
              \_ She is BUXOM TEUTONIC MAIDEN.  SHE VILL KRUSH YOU VHIZ HER
                 MIGHTY THIGHS.
                 \_ Mm, run Lola run!
2005/7/6-8 [Computer/SW/Unix, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38432 Activity:nil
7/6     Woohoo!  Otherwise clueless Euros nuke software patents!
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4655955.stm   -John
2005/7/5 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38411 Activity:nil
7/5     Guy living in the airport like Tom Hanks in The Terminal (the movie):
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050701/od_nm/kenya_britain_dc
        \- i think the original story is more interesting:
           http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a990820.html
2005/7/2-5 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38400 Activity:nil
7/2     Why was Bush's WMD intel bad? Blame France!
        http://csua.org/u/clh
        \_ Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys! Freedom Fries! Old Europe! Yarrrgh!
        \_ The buck stops... uh... only if you fill it with enough lead to
           put down a whole family of elephants.
2005/6/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38324 Activity:low
6/27    What's the best way of getting cash while traveling in Europe?
        \_ atm. atm fix everything.
           \_ Ass to mouth?
        \_ I second that. Western Europe, Eastern Europe, doesn't matter.
           Pick a well-established bank's ATM and check with your bank to
           see if they have any partners so withdrawals are free. But even
           if they're not, it's a better deal (and easier) than money
           exchanges.
        \_ And remember, unlike U.S. banks, almost all European banks do NOT
           charge ATM fees for using your own ATM card. It's YOUR bank back in
           the U.S. who might charge you for using a different bank (so at
           least you won't get double-dinged). You can alleviate this by: a)
           finding a bank that waives such fees for certain combined balance
           (Citibank comes to mind), or b) bank with an Internet-based bank
           that already have a ATM fee reim- bursement program. (e.g.  they
           pay up to 8 ATM withdrawals a month, etc)
           \_ Many do, but they will usually warn you.  Also take a few
              travellers checks for emergencies.  If you have a credit card,
              get a PIN code for it, as that's usable as an ATM card.  -John
        \_ Also, be warned that the keypads on European ATMs may not have
           alphabets like in the U.S., so memorize NUMBERS instead of LETTERS.
           \_ I've never seen an ATM that had letters on the keypad.
2005/6/27-28 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38316 Activity:moderate
6/27    Agriculture - The Worst Mistake In The History of the Human Race?
        http://www.agron.iastate.edu/courses/agron342/diamondmistake.html
        \_ There are so many hilarious logical flaws in that article I don't
           know where to start.
           \- Helo, this seemed absurd to me too, but I really dont know
              much about anthropology or pre-literate societies. I have
              read a little bit of GGS and some of that stuff seems pretty
              interesting [also well-beyond things I have significant
              understanding of]. On the other hand, I believe much of what
              he says in Collapse seems tenuous. I think there are more
              he says in Collapse seems tenuous. I feel there are more
              compelling explanations rooted in economics. It would be
              like trying to explain prisonner dilemma by "studying the
              criminal mind" instead of the spare axioms of rationality
              or trying to explain tragedy of the commons by sociological
              factors or "first/second image" explanations [in the sense
              of Waltz: Man, the State and War]. I think it would be
              interesting to ask him if he things hunt/gather societies
              could have evolved universities, libraries and other such
              knowledge-oriented institutions and labor specialization.
              I think he's a pretty smart guy, but I wonder if after
              becoming a "public intellectual" he feels obligated to
              come up with big, provocative ideas that are a little beyond
              his core knowledge [the extreme example is when physicists
              win the nobel prize and start talking about world peace].
              I do imagine he would have some rebuttals to your hilarious
              logical [not empirical?] flaws which you failed to know
              where to begin enumerating and leave unstated. ok tnx.
              \- btw, JD is giving a talk in SF in about 2 weeks.
2005/6/24-25 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38293 Activity:moderate
6/23    John, how do you know so much about Germany? Were you a German
        Studies major? I'm impressed.                           -newbie
        \_ I live next to it.  I also probably spent time at Cal hanging
           out a lot with heil cherman john guy.  Where is he, by the way?
           A good troll farmer should always make sure his troll herd is
           in good health.  -John
           \_ Who is the heil cherman guy and what does he do? Is he a
              skinhead or a neonazi? Why the hell would anyone at Cal, the
              most liberal and antinazi university, do something as stupid
              as heiling nazis?
2005/6/23-25 [Reference/Religion, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38271 Activity:kinda low
6/23    Enough Mormon baiting.  What about Scientologists?
        \_ Why do you have to bait anyone?  Why can't you just leave people
           alone to do their own thing?  At what point in your life has a
           Mormon, Scientologist or anyone else ever hurt you?
        \_ You need a clue-by-four if you think those two are even in the same
           league. -- ilyas
           \_ Why do you think Joseph Smith was any more credible than ol' L
              Ron?
              \_ His first name wasn't "LaFayette" for starters.
              \_ That's not what I said. -- ilyas
        \_ I don't think there are any Scientologists on the motd.
        \_ where's the challenge in that?
           \_ I should point out that Scientologists are REALLY aggressive when
              it comes to people mocking them.  Any online archive of the motd
              containing Scientology bashing, like say, Kevins, might receive
              a polite lawyerly kind of notice at some point. -- ilyas
              \_ They have lost several court cases regarding this.  Look on
                 http://www.clambake.org for links.  Or host your page in
                 Germany.  -John
                 \_ what's different or special about hosting in Germany?
                    Political immunity? Or lack of enforcement?
                    \_ German Verfassungsschutz ("constitution protection",
                       there's a nice orwellian name) is very very tough on
                       Scientology.  They have come down very hard on their
                       "we're a church not a business" bullshit.  In general,
                       the Germans do not like radical groups (nazis, commies,
                       increasingly islamists), so your protection from libel
                       and slander claims as a critic of these is fairly
                       strong.  Actually I think that most of the German-
                       speaking countries have enacted pretty harsh laws
                       restricting Scientology from "religious" activity until
                       they become more transparent (fat chance.)  -John
                       \_ If they're intolerant of radical groups like the
                          Nazis, then aren't they just like Nazis? NaziNazis?
                          \_ Debatable.  They crack down on anyone who
                             advocates destruction of the constitution and
                             overthrow of the democratic system, preaches
                             "hate" (whatever that is), denies the holocaust
                             or just plain breaks the law.  Remember also that
                             European churches are more institutionalized than
                             in the US (many countries still have a church tax
                             that you pay if you're a registered member of an
                             officially recognized church--this goes back to
                             the churches) and probably don't take kindly to
                             scientology abusing the idea of "church" to make
                             money.  -John
              \_ Those motherfuckers already have my name on file as an
                 anti-scientologist, and I'd like to personally go on record
                 as telling them all to go fuck themselves for the nth time.
                 If anyone wants to know why, email me.  -lafe
              \_ aren't they Rich/powerful?  Tom Cruise like?
                 \_ Don't you just have to say the word fnord and it
                    scares them away, like a cross to a vampire?
                    \_ Xenu, not fnord
        \_Scientologists are scary and own tom cruise, but come on,
          there are literally millions of Mormons, they have their own
          state and economic system.
          \_ Does the Mormon church officially sanction kidnapping and
             brainwashing?  Do they sanction Mormon-owned businesses firing
             anyone who refuses to join, and forcing all their employees to
             spend their spare time going to mormon indoctrination seminars?
             Do they have an official policy of using civil lawsuits to
             harass and intimidate anyone who criticizes them?
             \_ I don't know, you tell me.
2005/6/23-25 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38269 Activity:nil
6/23    Yeehaw! Dubya don't give a fuck about world perception:
        The United States' popularity in many countries - including longtime
        allies in Europe - is lagging behind even communist China.
        http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5094510,00.html
        \_ bbc (somewhat liberal slant) >>> guardian (ultra liberal slant)
           http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4124164.stm
           \_ The Free Republic >>> bbc
              http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1429190/posts
2005/6/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38086 Activity:high
6/10    http://www.amnestyusa.org/annualreport/statement.html
        I happen to think AI is not playing a very intelligent game, lately.
          -- ilyas
        \_ Wow, that goes even beyond my tolerance of holding the US to
           a higher standard.  If lunatics like this are taken to represent
           legitimate grievances, Joe Shmo will never take these seriously
           in the least.  -John
           \_ Yow. Gitmo is bad news, AG was a disaster, but comparing that
              to Pinochet is strictly KPFA territory. Really, folks, yelling
              Nazi at people is not a constructive approach. --erikred
              \_ Reread it. No one was compared to Pinochet. It was simply
                 stated that International Law could be brought to bear,
                 similar to what happened to Pinochet.
                 \_ Read and re-read. By placing Pinochet's name in that
                    context, the author is inviting comparison. Either it's
                    an example of poor editing technique, or it's deliberate.
                    \_ You are just reading into it what you want to see.
                       It is just the most high profile example of what
                       can happen to the powerful when subject to
                       International Law. If they had mentioned Kissinger's
                       midnight flight from Spain would you claim they
                       were comparing Rumsfeld to Kissinger?
                       \_ 'The apparent high-level architects of torture
                           should think twice before planning their next
                           vacation to places like Acapulco or the French
                           Riviera because they may find themselves under
                           arrest as Augusto Pinochet famously did in London
                           in 1998.'
                          You read that without immediately drawing a link
                          between what Pinochet did and what has happened in
                          Gitmo and AG? (And OT: Kissinger had/has panache;
                          Rumsfeld's running on sheer gall.)
        \_ and you think AI was playing very intelligent game when it
           critizing other countries?
           \_ AI is like the ACLU--a bit "out there", but fills a valuable
              function, as many of these groups do, drawing attention to
              wrongdoings.  There are a lot of countries that deserve harsh
              criticisms, including the US  However, there's also the idea
              of proportionality--while a Gitmo is horrible for a nation that
              should be a good example worldwide, bearing down almost solely
              on the US while almost completely disregarding all the far worse
              shit going on around the world (except for an "oh, yeah, there's
              Nepal and Darfur, but it's still kind of your fault for letting
              it happen") is just mad.  -John
              \_ Also, ACLU gets bonus points for noting that prisoner abuse
                 in US prisons is a huge humanitarian problem, and as such
                 prisoner abuse is, sadly, nothing new for the US. -- ilyas
              \_ my biggest problem with AI is that their selection on which
                 country to pick on seems to be not-so-randomn.  Noticably,
                 lack of critism of those nations who are US allies, such as
                 Turkey and Saudi Arabia. I've always assumed
                 it is a PR arm of US or UK in the past.
                 \_ http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/saudi
                 \_ http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/turkey
                    \_ that is my point.  couple pages on the internet,
                       nothing more.  No voice of boycott / economic / arm
                       embargo or anything close to it.  I just wondering
                       why China gets all the blame.
                       \_ Wow. AI can embargo weapons? They are
                          far more powerful than I realized.
        \_ This somehow suprises you? AI has always been on the lunatic
           fringe along with PETA.
           \_ Bzzt. See John's comment above. Also, AI has been more
              reluctant to engage in hyperbole and guerilla PR than PETA.
              Cf. PBS vs. KPFA.
        \_ Since everything they put in that report was true, it is hard
           for me to figure out why you are so opposed to it. -ausman
           \_ Do you really not see?  Let's imagine a hypothetical human rights
              body compiling a report on World War II, and mostly talking
              about Hiroshima, and the Dresden fire bombing.  Everything they
              said was true... -- ilyas
              \_ You are confused about the difference between Amnesty USA
                 and Amnesty International. Shouldn't the Amnesty sub-branch
                 of a country be most concerned with Human Rights in their
                 own country? The total Amnesty International report focuses
                 first on Darfur, then way down the list on Gitmo:
                 http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/index-eng
                 Would your hypothetical WWII human rights rights organization
                 be wrong to mention Dresden at all?
                 \_ Then they should either not make what looks like a mere
                    footnote out of supposed US responsibility for wrongs in
                    Nepal and Indonesia or be consistent and complete in their
                    criticism of perceived US inaction or wrongs committed
                    elsewhere.  -John
                 \_ If, as you say, the purpose of http://amnestyusa.org is
                    specifically the violations committed by the US government,
                    one has to ask why isn't a website devoted specifically
                    to governments that are actually a greater humanitarian
                    problem (NK, etc).  As far as I can see, the US is singled
                    out for a unique form of abuse -- the report pasted is just
                    the bashing of the US.  That there is a general report
                    which lists other countries does not explain the need for
                    the current website to exist.
                    \_ Are you being deliberately obtuse? Amnesty USA is
                       comprised of those members of Amnesty International
                       that reside in the USA. If there were enough North
                       Korean members to form a North Korea chapter,
                       I am sure they could have their own website, too.
                       \_ No, they would be found and executed by the NK gov.
                          Sheesh.  Welcome to reality.
                          \_ Your brain has been classified as: small.
                       \_ Ok.  The United States is a uniquely transparent,
                          self-examining society.  I suppose it does make it
                          easy to specifically bash them.  But this is, as an
                          old jewish proverb goes, looking for what is lost
                          under the lamppost (because that's where the light
                          is).  Also, where's Amnesty Europe?
                          \_ Stop trying to defend torture. There is really
                             no defence. And you will find all sorts of
                             national chapter websites, if you take the
                             trouble to look for them. I am sure you can
                             use Google all on your own.
                             \_ You see, people often accuse Bush supporters of
                                the mentality of 'if you are not with us, you
                                are with the terrorists.'  Curiously, Amnesty
                                supporters seem to have the mentality 'if you
                                criticize Amnesty, you are defending torture!'
                                Give me a break.  This is a red herring.
                                  -- ilyas
                                \_ No, you were critizing AI USA for attacking
                                   the US human rights record. There is really
                                   only one way to read that. No red herring
                                   at all. The claim that there is no AI
                                   Europe is the Red Herring. Europe is not
                                   even a country. Even a five minute search
                                   using Google turned up AI France, Germany,
                                   UK, Israel, Turkey, The Netherlands, Norway,
                                   India, Finland, Norway, NZ and Australia.
                                   \_ No, I am not criticising AI USA for the
                                      act of criticism itself, but for lack of
                                      scale and implied moral relativism.
                                      'Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?'  If
                                      holding the US to a higher standard is
                                      important, then holding Amnesty to an even
                                      higher standard is doubly important.
                                      important, then holding Amnesty to an
                                      even higher standard is doubly important.
                                        -- ilyas
                                      \_ And exactly how many tank divisions
                                         does Amnesty International have?
                                         \_ How many tanks does the Catholic
                                            Church have?  Do you think they are
                                            a powerless organization too?  You
                                            have to watch a lot more people
                                            than just those with tanks.  This
                                            is another red herring.  In some
                                            sense, though, there is a kind of
                                            karma to these orgs.  If they get
                                            too shrill, people stop paying
                                            attention to them. -- ilyas
                                            \_ It is amusing that you think
                                               that Amnesty International is
                                               more powerful than the Pentagon.
                                            \_ Your knowledge of Soviet
                                               history is lacking.
                                               \_ I suppose the fact that
                                                  Djugashvili said it makes it
                                                  a RED herring. -- ilyas
2005/6/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:38031 Activity:high
6/7     Someone asked this question a while ago on the motd.
        The longest lasting republic in history was the city-state of
        Venice (at around 1000 years).  At the height of its power it
        waged successful wars vs its rival Genoa, and the Ottoman Turks,
        and was the premier maritime Mediterranean power.  It ceased to
        exist as an independent entity around Napoleonic times. -- ilyas
        \_ The Italian city-states weren't exactly known for their love of
           freedom and goodwill towards man, were they?  I'm asking this
           seriously.  I seem to recall that's where the infamous Machiavelli
           came from (not Venice though, correct?).  Not to mention how
           involved they all were in the machinations and degredations of
           the Rennaissance Popes (c.f., e.g. Ballet of Chestnuts).
           \- A large question since the days of the renaissance itself
              has been "how to explain florentine exceptionalism" and
              the "meaning" and causes of the renaissance write large.
              the "meaning" and causes of the renaissance writ large.
              I'm too busy to give motd summaries any more but you can
              read J. BURCKHARDT: Civ Renaissance in Italy, which is the
              classic work. There are some important scholars in this area
              from UCB as well, e.g. Old Professor Bouwsma (dead) and
              G. BRUCKER (emeritus).
              G. BRUCKER (emeritus). according to pope gregory xi, florentine
              exceptionalism consisted of their love of high interest rates
              and assmastery.
           \_ Neither was Athens.  According to some people neither is the
              United States.  I think it is reasonable to call all 3
              republics though, just due to the 'shape' of their government.
              (Well ok, Athens was more of a direct democracy).  -- ilyas
              Italian city-states WERE quite progressive for their day.  If
              I were to venture an amateur guess I would say this has something
              to do with them embracing more aspects of capitalism than their
              neighbors. -- ilyas
              \_ Wasn't Athens a pure democracy rather than a republic?
2005/6/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37990 Activity:kinda low
6/6     http://he.fi/video/LSD_Being_Tested_on_Brtish_Troops.mpg
        \_ What's that a video of?
           \_ How did you get into Berkeley without being able to read? -dans
         \_ Video of British soldiers under the influence of LSD. They start
            to relax and lost all sense of urgency during a battle simulation.
            Most started to giggle or just lie around and do nothing. Sounds
            like a perfect humane gas weapon to use on your enemies.
            \_ I never get tired of this video.  I love when the one guy
               climbs the tree.  I think all world leaders should be forced
               to take acid and hang out in the woods or camp out on a
               beach and read Pablo Neruda overnight being allowed to take
               office.
               \_ The commentary reminds me of some David Attenborough
                  documentary on gorillas--one of them takes a steaming dump,
                  grabs it, takes a whiff and starts happily munching away.
                  DA (after a pause): "sometimes it's just a case of a warm
                  meal on a cold night"...  -John
2005/6/4-6 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:37972 Activity:high
6/4     Regarding yesterday's racist remark on how wealthy and smart Jewish
        people are, I will reiterate again that it is just my opinion, as a
        non-Jew, that they are one of the wisest and sensible people in the
        world. In fact, I think United States would be much better if the
        government is run by Jews. That is because Jews are more likely to
        use diplomacy rather than Shock & Awe, Bolton bullying, and
        intimidation. They're also more likely to have earned their college
        degrees without their daddy's influence. Most of them think clearly
        and thus don't have speech impediments. Most of them are modest,
        unlike people who say they've made no mistakes. They're also sensible
        and are less likely to divise people into two camps-- one for you,
        one against you. Lastly, Jews are less likely to impose their
        Religious beliefs such as pro-life/pro-choice on you. Since they
        know what it is like to be suppressed by the other race, they have
        a lot of understanding and compassion for people who are different,
        be it people with alternative and diverse lifestyles, or just
        minorities in general. I hope one day, they take over our Red Neck
        White Trash Christian Nation and make United States better for
        Americans and less of a threat to everyone else. Shalom, and
        Bless Jews.                     -Troller. Not a Jew, But Worship Them
        \_ I'm stunned that no one else has yet said this is the most racist
           drivel the motd has seen in quite a while.  Please tell us that
           when you signed as "Troller." you were telling us flat out that
           this racist diatribe really is a troll and we weren't all supposed
           to respond seriously like everyone below has done.
           \_ I don't know if I would call the below responses "serious."
              A few were tounge-in-cheek, and most were on a different,
              although related, subject.
        \_ Average IQ in Israel is actually pretty low:
           http://www.isteve.com/IQ_Table.htm   (IQ and the Wealth of Nations)
           \_ its probably just being dragged down by them dirty palestinians
        \_ Man, you should post this on the MSA website.
           \-1. as with the sikhs, i think people assume there are more of
                then then there are. small populations have have higher
                variances from the mean than large ones.
             2. there are some big selection factors, as well, looking at
                an immigrant group. for example if you judge indians you
                meet here a lot of them seem reasonably intelligent ... you
                dont meet a lot of indians who couldnt tell you what 15% of
                100 is. but it turns out if you go to india, you discover
                there are a lot of dumb indians. similarly whatever you say
                about jews here, the population metrics are likely to be pretty
                different when you are talking about israelis. having met a
                large number of israelis while traveling, they are the biggest
                assholes [followed probably by indians ... this is actually
                sort of interesting and there are some statistical explanations
                but i'll leave it at that].
                \_ If an American Jew is a fanatical asshole about religion,
                   they typically will want to go to Israel as much as
                   possible and will often move there and become citizens.
                   The town I'm from (in the U.S.) had a lot of these people.
                   When a Christian decides to be a fundamentallist asshole,
                   they do it right here, but among jews there's a filter that
                   tends to send the extremists to Israel and keep the more
                   decent folk here.
                \_ I find Chinese to be greater assholes while traveling
                   abroad than Indians, but only marginally so. What is it
                   about the eastern mind that makes people inconsiderate
                   jerks?
                   \_ Nothing--just that some cultures bring out the fact that
                      people are assholes more than others through learned
                      traits (so, assuming you get the same % of assholes per
                      culture, your Englishman will seem treacherous and
                      passive-aggressive, French=arrogant, German=loud &
                      boorish, American=loud & obnoxious, Russian=pushy,
                      Chinese=rude & self-centered, etc.)  -John
                   \_ Just a thought, but perhaps all these people who have
                      immigrated to the US have adapted to our social norms,
                      whereas when you are traveling abroad, you have probably
                      not adapted to their social norms.
                         \_ I'm often told that people in X country
                            are racist and don't like foreigners by
                            Chinese and Indians, but the problem
                            that I have with this is that I often
                            notice the same Chinese and Indians
                            tourists acting like complete jerks when
                            they are abroad.
                            I don't know who many times I've had to
                            stand in line behind some Chinese or
                            Indian having it out with the hotel staff
                            or a ticket agent over something trivial.
                            (It is worse when I have to stand behind
                            and Indian b/c I'm invariably viewed w/
                            distrust and am stuck apologizing for
                            the rude behavior).
                            I almost never see non-asian tourists do
                            things like take photos where they are
                            not permitted, walk accross lawns &c.
                            that are being repaired, spitting in
                            inappropriate places, yelling, &c.
                            Perhaps I am not in tune w/ their culture
                            but any culture that breeds disrespect
                            for your fellow man (esp. when you are a
                            guest in their country) is on that I don't
                            want to be in tune w/.
                            \- once again, a partial answer:
                            \- once again, i think i have a partial answer:
                               a lot of the indians going to a place like the
                               middle east are "lower class" persons, like
                               people with domestic or labor jobs. lower
                               class americans ... the type that chew and
                               spit tobacco dont leave the country. you go
                               to a mcdonalds in oakland and you see some
                               pretty amazing behavior.
                               note also that in some countries retail
                               establishments are mostly small proprietorships
                               and this means 1. you can bargain about prices
                               [and there are rude and non-rude ways of doing
                               this] 2. there are usually not hassle-free
                               returns, so sometimes you have to be a little
                               nasty ... and when it comes to small things,
                               it a matter of not being the bitch than the
                               money.
                      \- in the case of some indians, these are the servant-
                         owning class, so often they will treat people like
                         their mountaineering guides as their servants,
                         like "hey bring me my cigarettes". they are also
                         cheep [as are israelis and chinese]. it's one thing
                         to say "oh may be they dont think it is rude to
                         chew loudly" but it's not reasonable to say "in their
                         culture it is perfectly reasonable to yell across
                         the hotel atrium to your friends at 2am". a lot of
                         the chinese people i meet travelling in the backwaters
                         of asia are travelling solo and people [including
                         israelis] are less jerk-like solo. part of the
                         biasing factor in the israeli case is they are often
                         younger people who are looking to party on the cheap.
                         you cant relly compare a post-college american who
                         goes to france to see some culture and a dutch
                         teen ager who heads down to paris to carouse.
                         cheep [as are israelis and chinese]. [these are why
                         usually i am one of the two chiefs of labor nego-
                         tiations with the climbing staff: i look after them
                         more and i am a better tipper]. re: social norms:
                         it's one thing to say "oh maybe they dont think it
                         is rude to chew loudly" but it's not reasonable to
                         say "in their culture it is perfectly reasonable to
                         yell across the hotel atrium to your friends at
                         2am". a lot of the chinese people i meet travelling
                         in the backwaters of asia are travelling solo and
                         people [including israelis] are less jerk-like
                         solo. part of the biasing factor in the israeli case
                         is they are often younger people who are looking to
                         party on the cheap.  you cant relly compare a
                         post-college american who goes to france to see some
                         culture and a dutch teen ager who heads down to paris
                         to carouse.
                         \_ I live in an apartment building full of white
                            frat boys who consider it acceptable to yell
                            across the courtyard to their friends at 2am.
                            My German upstairs neighbors have ear-shattering
                            parties at 4am sometimes.  Are those cultural too?
                              -- ilyas
                              \- i'm talking about quite specific contexts.
                                 like austriains in bali are likely to be
                                 loud partiers. australians you meet crossing
                                 the thorung la pass arent likely to be loud
                                 and obnoxious ... nit that week anyway.
                                 and there are some valid generalization and
                                 they have explanations beyond "people from X
                                 are just that way" ... like the servant class
                                 example.
                            \_ It is not cultural that Cantonese speakers talk
                               louder than Mandarin speakers. It is a fact well
                               accepted by most Chinese. As for parties at 4AM,
                               that's a tough one. Maybe your German friends
                               learned it from Caucasian frat boys, who knows.
                               Speaking of Caucasian frat boys, I also hear
                               them yelling and breaking beer glass bottles
                               till 3AM 1/2 mile from Gayley. Fucking annoying
                               jocks. Definitely Caucasian frat cultural.
                               jocks. Definitely Caucasian frat cultural. Also,
                               definitely more of a UCLA thing than a Cal thing
                                \- Harbhajan Singh, On what he was discussing
                                   with Younis Khan: Oh, it wasn't a heated
                                   conversation. But you know, we were
                                   speaking in Punjabi, and Punjabi is such a
                                   language that even when you have a normal
                                   conversatiion in it, it sounds heated.
                               \_ I've seen many drunk, stupid frat boys
                                  pissing behind dumpsters and on street
                                  corners in my years of living near college
                                  campuses.  I would like to point out however
                                  that the *only* time I've seen a drunk
                                  stupid frat boy atually pissing *on* the
                                  porch of his own frat house was at the Yale
                                  DKE house.  Future presidents indeed.
                            \_ Re Germans, I used to work w/ a German guy and
                               he was always surprised when the neighbors
                               complained about his loud late night parties.
                               Apparently in Berlin the action doesn't start
                               until after midnight at the earliest.
                               \_ Zese are ze irresponsible chermans.  Se real
                                  Chermans are up at 6 in ze mornink, varmink
                                  up ze panzers for ze little hangover trip to
                                  POLAND, ha ha!  -John
                               Re Frat Boys, They are just obnoxious youth,
                               which are found EVERYWHERE.  In Dublin almost
                               all of the late night party/noise was from
                               kids getting drunk at pubs.
        \_ I don't know any world leader who have all the combined attributes
           of not prefering diplomacy, have a speech impediment, is not modest,
           AND imposes his/her belief on you. To whom are you refering to???
2005/6/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:37917 Activity:nil
6/1     Who was the first female Secretary of State?  Thx.
        \_ Duh. Madeline Albright. Her dad inspired Condi Rice to switch
           from music to politics.
           \_ BTW, "Albright" doesn't sound like a foreign lastname.
              \_ Uh, what are you talking about?
              \_ She made up that name herself and changed it.
           \_ I like the pic of her toasting Kim Jong-Il:
              http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Madeleine-Albright
2005/5/31-6/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37894 Activity:moderate
5/30    http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/30/cheney.amnestyintl/index.html
        Who has more credibility, Amnesty International or Cheney? Also do
        you believe in Cheney's prediction that fighting would be over
        before the next administration?
        \_ Yeah A.I. is totally right. Comparing abuses of prisoners
           in Cuba to the Soviet Gulags where 16 million died.
           \_ False argumentation.  Cheney:  "our abuses aren't so bad, and
              we've done a bunch of good things, and human rights violators
              are entirely bad, so because we're not quite that bad, we're
              not human rights violators."  Righteous indignation, indeed.  As
              for gulags, it's a poorly chosen figure of speech.  Just like
              "concentration camps"--invented by the British, remember?  -John
              \_ but  we just have queer makeover camps
        \_ AI has it right -- the bar is much higher for the U.S. (a little
           abuse goes a long way), so the comparison is fair.
           Cheney may be viewed as being more arrogant than combative,
           Cheney may be viewed as being more arrogant more than combative,
           and is also practicing defining reality.
           \_ I wish you could grow up in a 3rd world country to see
              what a little goes a long way really means.
              \_ This is awesome. That the US is not as bad as a 3rd country
                 is hardly a defence. Are there any other 1st world
              \_ This is awesome. That the US is not as bad as a 3rd world
                 country is hardly a defence. Are there any other 1st world
                 countries that hold people indefinitely without a trial
                 and torture them for information?
              \_ There is a hell of a lot of torture that goes on in
                 American prisions, too, mostly in the form of prisoner
                 on prisoner rape. This oftens leads to HIV, too. The
                 authorities could stop this, but choose not to.
                 authorities could stop this, but choose not too.
           \_ "That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an
               empire now, and when we act we create our own reality."
        \_ "our abuses aren't so bad" -- what kind of talk is that from
           the "leader of the free world".  Sounds kinda like this guy:
        General "Buck" Turgidson: Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't
        get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million
        killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.
2005/5/20-23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37787 Activity:moderate
5/20    Has any republic in the history of the world lasted longer than 300
        years?
        \_ Is the English Commonwealth a republic?
           \_ No.  There is a monarch.
           \_ To be precise, it's a Constitutional Monarchy.
        \_ If you mean 'country' then sure.  If you mean 'continuous
           government' I'm not so sure.
           \_ I mean continuous government.
        \_ The Chow dynasty in ancient China lasted ~800 years under a
              continuous govt.  But it's not a republic.
           continuous govt.  But it's not a republic.  Switzerland has been a
           republic as the Swiss Confederation since 1291.
           \_ Confederation, not Republic :)  -John
              \_ According to http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook
                 (yeah, the CIA), it's a federal republic.  I don't know what
                 the difference is.
                 \_ Uh, erm, but they haven't broken our yodel code!  -John
           \_ Zhou Dynasty had total of 23 successions (e.g. 24 Emperors),
              most numerous successions in China's 5000 years history.
              In many ways number of successions is a better guage than
              number of years when one judge the length of regimes.
        \_ Rome.
           \_ 510 BC to 44 BC according to Wikipedia:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_republic
              But wasn't the period from 133 BC on pretty much a mess?
        \_ The Thousand Year Reich lasted 12 years.
2005/5/20-23 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37777 Activity:kinda low
5/20    East Antarctica ice sheet growing:
        http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050516/full/050516-10.html
        \_ as predicted by global climate models showing global warming.
           The gain in ice mass reduces ocean level rise by 0.12mm per year,
           but ocean levels are still rising at 1.8mm per year.  -tom
           \_ Where was this predicted?  I put this here not because it
              "disproves" global warming--just because it was interesting.
              \_ "But the panel also expected that climate change
                 would trigger an increase in snowfall over the
                 Antarctic continent, as increased evaporation from
                 the oceans puts more moisture into the air."
                 "This is a phenomenal piece of research, but it is what we
                 expected"  -tom
                 \_ So as the globe warms, Antarctica will expand? Isn't
                    this rather contradictory? Does that mean all the
                    stuff about poles melting is BS?
                    \_ No, it means that the process isn't linear.  As
                       ice melts, there is more moisture in the system
                       and thus more snow in some parts of Antarctica.
                       The snow doesn't compensate for the amount of
                       ice that melted; most of it goes to rising sea
                       levels.  -tom
                       \_ There's also the whole West Antarctica problem.
                          It'd be interesting to see how the expanding
                          eastern portion of the continent compares with the
                          contracting western portion.
                          As a sidenote, I don't have a URL, but every visual
                          portrayal I've seen of the expected global warming
                          trend includes pockets of cold, which expand for
                          a decade or so before collapsing and popping up
                          elsewhere.  Meanwhile the rest of the earth gets
                          toasty.  Yay PBS!
                 \_ "Predict" means to say before.  It doesn't mean, oh this
                    proves global warming because we expected it.  Where was
                    the expectation published prior to this result?
                    \_ http://www.csua.org/u/c5g  - bbc news link
                       \_ Way to post an irrelevant diagram!  Where does that
                          image predict thickening of any Antarctic ice?
                          \_ right where there's a cold front off the coast
                             of antarctica.
                          \_ what are you getting at?
2005/5/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:37776 Activity:nil
5/19    http://tinyurl.com/bsyxx    http://Amazon.com
        I have never seen so many reviews written by a dumbass with so
        many negative ("0 of X people found the following review helpful")
        feedbacks. Half of what he writes, he writes VERBATIM in his other
        reviews as well, like "Socialism is the root of all evils!"
        Maybe you can help/unhelp him out as well.
2005/5/17-18 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37718 Activity:high
5/16    Anyone else getting spambombed by Germans with a grudge against
        the Turks?
        \_ Umm.. no.  What does the email say
        \_ It's a new virus.  -tom
           \_ Not new. http://csua.org/u/c3a
              \_ Yesterday's not new enough for you?
                 \_ I 4M 3133+3! G1V3 M3 Z3R0 D4Y \/\/4R3Z!!1!
           \_ Funny enough, something similar was going around a while ago,
              but on a more limited scale.  They were sending around not
              quite as offensive shit.  -John
        \_ Yep. And, conversely, I just got a random piece of spam in
           Turkish. Seem to just be advertising hosting, nothing against the
           Germans (yet?). -alexf
2005/5/15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37693 Activity:nil
5/15    Rethinking the Articles of Confederation
        http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1403342/posts
2005/5/13-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37665 Activity:nil
5/13    I'm just a dumb consumer and I just go to whatever store that is
        closer or cheaper. And yes, I do shop at Wal-Mart and I don't
        have any problem with them. Maybe they do predatory businesses
        and maybe they don't. I don't know... and I don't really give
        a damn. However, I just want to say that fundamentally, I have a lot
        of problems with giving a lot of clout and power to a few selected
        elite (and in this case, board members and CEOs).
          The entire U.S. constitution was created so that it avoids pitfalls
        of the past (giving too much power to European aristocrats) with
        system of checks and balances, and by giving back some voices back
        to the people. In the early 1800s, corporations were formed as
        legal entities, with most of the rights of individuals AND
        with all the power and clouts of aristocrats. We saw how things
        got really ugly in the 20s and 30s, with the division and struggles
        between Unions and Management, and later with new laws forming to
        protect laborers. Right now, we're heading back to the old days
        where the Union is weak and the Corporation is stronger than ever.
        Fine, maybe Wal-Mart will always do ethical things. But can you
        trust them to always to be that way? I don't know.
2005/5/12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37656 Activity:nil
5/12    John, I like the way your GF looks. She looks like a classy European
        babe, like the one from Paris France:
        http://homepage.ntlworld.com/r.rodham/120804-rh-2.jpg
        This of course, is in sharp contrast of a typical American woman from
        say, Paris Kentucky:
        http://sidesplitters.catastrophe.net/arch/2004/Paris-Kentucky.jpg
2005/5/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37620 Activity:nil
5/11    King Tut Reconstructed:
        http://tinyurl.com/bbwku (telegraph.co.uk)
        \_ BBC is so much better than our right-wing controlled PBS (which
           by the way can no longer show colorful rabbits to explain about
           gays and lesbians). UK #1, Europe #1, and FUCK AMERICA.
2005/5/4 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37520 Activity:kinda low
5/4     John, your Euro gf looks sexy, cultured, and sophisticated, unlike
        heavy make-up, Britney Spears-like, Ameri-trash I'm used to seeing.
        She has no make-up but still looks incredibly nice. What's her secret?
        Is it from not drinking American Monsanto milk? Or eating natural
        European waxless apples? Or from walking a lot in sandle friendly
        Euro towns? Lastly, tell us about her. What's her nationality? Age?
        Languages? Curious :)
        \_ There's nothing wrong with American girls.  It's the American girls
           you hang out with that are the problem.  Find new girls.
        \_ wtf? are you a retard?
           \_ Sounds like kchang looking for a new stalking victim.
        \_ Holy shit.  The CSUA has got some scary people lurking about.
              \_ LILA!!!!! LILA PATTON!!!!!!!!!!!
        \_ Holy shit.  Who are these people, and how do they get CSUA
           membership?  Get your chronic masturbator self back to Craigslist
           Missed Connections!
2005/4/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37298 Activity:high
4/21    Buh, duh, huh?
        http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1559253,00.html
        France Backs China on Taiwan
        \_ The French gov't makes me feel icky.
           \-C HITCHENS had a great comment about J CHIRAC:
             "a man, like the banker in Flaubert's Sentimental Education,
             'so corrupt that he would willingly pay for the pleasure of
             selling himself".'
             --psb
        \_ It's wrong for France to back the Anti-Secession Law, especially
           when France is going against the countervailing current of world
           opinion that the law was unnecessary and increased tensions.
           As for the EU trying to convince the U.S. that it's okay for them
           to sell arms to China, the argument is:
           Russia is selling them the h07 sh17 w34P0N5 tech, so why aren't you
           blaming them?
           Then again, two wrongs don't make a right, so I consider the EU
           selling advanced arms to China as also wrong.
           \_ The US has been selling weapons to the world's worst people
              for a generation. It is amazingly hypocritical for us to
              complain about the EU doing the same thing.
              \_ Which country is not hypocritical?  France and other European
                 countries had been colonizing much of the world.  China
                 annexed Tibet and Xinjiang hundreds of years ago.  Taiwan
                 (the Nationalists) were oppressing the native Taiwanese
                 decades ago.
                 \_ So the French are simply following in their own best
                    self interest, instead of doing what we want them to
                    do. Is that your complaint? Especially after all the
                    cheese-eating surrender monkey crap, they probably feel
                    like we are not really an ally anymore. What a surprise.
                 \_ The term Taiwanese, used by the pro-independence groups,
                    actually refers to Chinese who settled there before
                    Japan annexed Taiwan, rather than the aborigines, whom
                    the pro-independence groups want to wipe out.  But it
                    was a very clever invention perfect for eliciting knee
                    jerk "Taiwan belongs to Taiwanese" slogan.
           \_  Before the law was passed, Taiwan's defense minister proposed
               arming missles with chemical weapons and its legistators boasted
               developing nukes.  That stopped after the law is passed. Seems
               like a good law.
           \_ increased tensions, yes, but why is the law unnecessary?
              \_ China doesn't need a law passed by the People's Congress
                 saying they can invade to invade.
                 \_ With a maturing government, China is becoming more reliant
                    on legal codes and protcol than short term political whim.
                    Every country goes through different periods.  Dont' forget
                    until < 100 years ago CA was the WWW and "the law" was a
                    joke.
        \_ This url goes to a pair of enormous floppy breasts.
           \_ And the above posters are just bots who react to the word China
              the way I have programmed them.
           \_ Fixed.
2005/4/18-19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37240 Activity:low
4/18    Just curious, who (what country, where) has reminants of Hitler?
        Is it Russia? Or is it still in Germany?
        \- Brazil
        \_ There are rumors that Russian soldiers removed his charred body
           to Russia after his adjudant burned him & Eva Braun in front of
           their bunker on 30.04.1945.  Other eyewitnesses say that he was
           thrown into an unmarked hole & buried.  As far as I can tell, the
           NSA is keeping his brain alive inside a jar next to Kennedy at the
           Smithsonian.  -John
           \_ I heard a story second hand from a Russian soldier who was there
              that he saw a whole room full of dead hitler lookalikes at one
              point.  So if that's true, who knows what body was what?
              \_ Lord knows I'm not one to let a straight line go to waste,
                 but this one's just too easy.  :-)  -John
              \_ I'm trying to remember this joke correctly ... During the
                 US invasion, one of Saddam Hussein's generals meets with
                 Saddam's 20 body doubles.  He tells them "I've got good news
                 and bad news.  The good news is, even though American bombs
                 hit the palace Saddam was hiding in, he's still alive so you
                 still have your jobs.  The bad news is, he lost an arm in
                 the attack."
2005/4/18-19 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37235 Activity:kinda low
4/18    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153586,00.html
        Is this a sign that I should be shifting my tech stocks into
        energy stocks?
        \_ Yes, you are reading Fox News, so you should follow the herd.
           \_ Because there's sooo much individuality in knee-jerk slams of Fox
              News.
              \_ "Again, the Fox New audience showed the highest rate of
                  misperceptions -- 45% -- while the NPR/PBS audience showed
                  the lowest -- 11%."
                  http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf
               http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf
                  Why do you keep deleting this? Can't handle the truth?
                  Oh, I forgot. You are a Fox News listener.
                  \_ I'm not deleting it.  And I don't listen to Fox News, I
                     watch it about 90 minutes a week.
                  \_ That's only because the facts rarely coincide with what
                     fox news reports.
                  \_ Because this could destabilize energy stocks for years
                     to come.
             \_ if everyone does something, then you better follow the crowd
        \_ Exactly the opposite.  Energy stocks are overvalued now while
           tech stocks are finally at reasonable valuations.
        \_ IBM is one company
2005/4/11-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37141 Activity:high
4/11    Did Camilla's two children become prince and princess after the civil
        wedding?
        \_ Is she still not claiming the title of Princess?  I'd guess her
           children would not be in the line of succession.  Or if they were,
           it would be WAY down the line.
           \_ Her new title is Duchess of Cornwall. Her kids don't get a title.
              If she becomes queen, her kids would be put into the line of
              succession.
              \_ As I understand it; it follows the blood line. So,
        unless these kids are really the Prince's ; they are not in
        line of sucession
              \_ As I understand it; it follows the blood line. So, unless
                 these kids are really the Prince's ; they are not in line
                 of sucession
                 \_ Hmm, can't wait until the next issue of the Sun tabloid.
        \_ From the BBC:
           "Prince Charles remains heir to the throne, with his and
           Princess Diana's oldest son, Prince William, next in line to
           the throne. Any change in the succession needs the assent of
           all Commonwealth members. Mrs Parker-Bowles has two children,
           Tom and Laura, from her first marriage but they do not join the
           line of succession."
           BTW, here is the line of succession:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_Succession_to_the_British_Throne
           http://tinyurl.com/49v4f
                \- i think once the mother cockroach dies, there will be a
                   bit of a reckoning in england. i have known a few
                   british people in the 30-50 age range who have said
                   "E2 is my queen but he will never be my king" ... i guess
                   they remember QE2 being a symbol after ww2 and being good
                   for the country, but it is obvious to everybody that the
                   more recently generations are genetically freakish spoiled
                   wastrels. --psb
                   \_ I think William and Harry are quite popular, no?
                      \_ They are and it is possible that QE might outlive
                         Charles. If Charles dies then William takes over,
                         despite Camilla being alive or not. Charles may
                         never be king.
                         \_ I've always assumed that Charles would abdicate
                            and allow the crown to pass to William.
                            \-Let's hope he meets the same fate as Charles I.
                              Here is a fun trivia question: Who doesnt belong:
                              Oliver Cromwell, Edward II, Richard III,
                              Papa Doc Duvalier, Vlad the Impaler.
                              Google away, bitches. --psb
                              \_ What has he done to deserve beheading?
2005/4/9-10 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Finance/Investment] UID:37129 Activity:nil
4/8     Free Trade killed the Neanderthals:
        http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7221
2005/4/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:37099 Activity:low 75%like:37086
4/6     How does one go about watching the new Dr. Who in this country?  I
        buy a copy, or is it being shown on TV anytime soon?
        \_ The simplest way is to download  one of the many copies
           that exist on your friendly neighborhood P2P server but
           be prepared to wait for a bit.
           The exists no American contract right now.
           The only overseas showing you read about is in canada (CBC)
           which should start pretty soon (the magrathea sftv mailing
           list is a good source of info too): episode 3 is being
           broadcast in the UK on Saturday.  --ramberg
           \_ Thanks!  Are CBC or BBC available via sattelite?  Did you
              get it via p2p?
              \_   Google  gives info  on both.
              \_   Google  gives info  on both as would searching your
        favorite p2p site.
2017/10/16 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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