Politics Foreign Europe - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/06/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/9/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:10168 Activity:nil
9/12    Interesting article in today's WSJ about legal/illegal Latino
        immigration to Europe. At least part of it is the result of
        tightened border security in the US, and Europe has a different
        take on it. Some welcome it as an alternative to help thwart
        illegal muslim immigration (potential terrorists). Other factors
        include a shortage of younger workers, workers know Spanish, etc.
        Spain allows citizenship after 24 mos. because of special
        relationship with latin america which is a lot better than the
        previous special relationship in the america's of taking your
        land and calling you a foreigner (or heathen, etc).
        \_ Oh?  Taking the Spanish speaker's land in America? Excuse me, but
           that requires an immediate "fuck you".  Who do you think the
           Spaniards stole it from along with a healthy dose of torture,
           murder, rape, slavery, theft, looting, and fire, to say nothing
           of intentionally and systematically obliterating the once highly
           advanced cultures that were here before the Spanish and their
           descendants.  I have no pity or sympathy for anyone trying to use
           that "they stole our land from us!" line when right now they're
           still oppressing the Indians in southern Mexico and putting the
           final touches on wiping out the few remaining tribes hiding out
           in the deeper forests further south.  Learn some history then you
           can come back here trolling about the poor oppressed Spanish
           speakers and how "their" land got "stolen".
           \_ hello, spittle-emitter, you totally missed his point.
           \_ Yeah, but what a great rant!
           \_ Perhaps the irony of the peoples of latin america immigrating
              to Europe caused a short-circuit in your neural synapses
              causing you to become a "spittle-emitter".
           \_ Aren't Mexicans Indians?
              \_  Mexicans are a mix of Aztecs and Spaniards.
              \_ Largely.  Conquered by the Spaniards.  (Of course, Bustamonte
                 for example isn't--he's a pure-bred Spaniard.)
                 \_ Aren't Spaniards just Arabs that converted to
                    \_ So they aren't really caucacians or "white"?
              \_ Emotional statement of fact.  Mexico is run by an aristocracy
                 involved in rural cleansing of the poor / troublemakers.
                 Where do they send them - here for course.  Although
                 casting the Indians as the victims is a little far fetched.
                 \_ How is casting Indians as victims in any way far fetched?
                    Have you read or heard *anything* about what's going on
                    in the southern states?  Anything at all?
2003/9/11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29532 Activity:high
9/10    http://CNN.com story - "A UK-based Islamist group is planning a conference
        on September 11 hailing the suicide attackers who killed thousands in
        New York and Washington as "The Magnificent 19." http://csua.org/u/49e
        \_ The UK is a known haven for anti-Western Islamic forces.  This
           'conference' shouldn't surprise anyone.
        \_ let's fly a plane into their conference
           \_ that's a good idea.
        \_ the Islamist group's web site is down. doesn't respond to pings.
           why can't these arabs keep their websites up?
2003/9/5 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29521 Activity:nil
9/5     Is Bush going to take back the "bring it on" comment he made?  With
        the number of people dying everyday I'd say that the bad guys have
        really brought it on.  I hope the french and the germans force bush
        to take back that statement before signing on to any UN resolution.
        \_ take back the one statement?  I'm sure the french and germans
           prefer the $ talking.  After all, $ is why the U.S. is asking
           for UN support.
        \_ "take it back"?!? what like apologise?
            1)  That would never happen
            2)  It would be a totally empty gesture.  "I'm really sorry"
                is going to get the world what exactly?  Bring people back
                to life?  Restore US credibility?  Maybe the French will
                say "it's all good, here's a few billion Euro" ???
            \_ You're right.  Resignation would be so much more appropriate.
            \_ You have just been trolled.  Thank you, come again!
        \_ Oh my the casualties are staggering! Shows how young and naive
           you are.
2003/8/29-2004/2/14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29518 Activity:high
2/13    Is there a flush lever on those Green French toilet contraptions?
        \_ No, because the French think their shit doesn't stink.
           \_ RACIST!
2003/8/29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29515 Activity:nil
8/29    French Propose Their World Order
        "Using force is often tempting," he said, but "can only
        be justified if collective security or urgent humanitarian
        needs require it." Force must be "a last resort," and
        "only when the international community, through
        the Security Council, decides."
2003/8/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:29399 Activity:high
8/19    http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac10.htm
        I'm not a rabid Israel hater like some on the motd, but I think
        this is a pretty good reminder that Israel is a state that was
        born from terrorism.  However because they are "good terrorists"
        no one ever talks about it.  The line between terrorist and
        freedom fighter is a shakey one.
        \_ 'Born from terrorism.'  Pretty strong statement there.  Are you
           sure you aren't rabid?
2003/7/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Music] UID:29138 Activity:low
7/25    Kraftwerk is releasing a new album:
        \_ Touch my monkey.
           \_ Monkey, monkey, monkey!
              \_ Did you say sandwich monkey?
2003/7/24 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29128 Activity:nil
7/24    I'd like to add another item to Germany's list of problems: idiocy.
        http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L23109558.htm The idea that
        911 was some sort of US Government ordered attack especially after
        numerous previous attempts and statements by known terrorists is well
        beyond stupid.  That enough people in the government could get
        together and pull this off without a leak is sheer insanity.  That
        20-30% of Germans feel this says they're either genetically defective
        or there's something in the water.  Send in a UN Eco Squad to test the
        water immediately!  Save the Germans from their own bad water supply
        before it's too late!
        \_ They're not idiots.  They're just very...assertive as a whole and
           once they latch onto some notion, that's obviously fact.  No more
           than any other country.  -John
           \_ They latched on to the notion despite a huge body of evidence
              and history to the contrary.  Brilliant.  Did all the smart ones
              get weeded out in WWII?
        \_ a lot of germany does have pretty bad water. but i think there is
           value in the idea that the whitehouse influenced the attacks by
           providing hints. if you look at the New American Century, it doesn't
           sound like it's beyond those guys to do something like that.
           \_ influenced?  Nonono, it says they believe the US Government
              planned and executed.
        \_ So what; 20% of Americans believe the sun revolves around
           the earth.  -tom
           \_ Even if so, this is harmless.  Germans thinking 911 was a
              US government conspiracy is not.
           \_ one stupidity doesn't justify or excuse another.
                \_ my point being, "people are stupid" is not specifically
                   a German problem.  -tom
                   \_ stupidity is not a specific german problem, but it is
                      a problem.  and this particular german stupidity is
                      dangerous and egregious.
                   \_ yeah people are stupid in many places so it's ok!!!!
                      you must work for the government.
                        \_ this response indicates which side of the line
                           you belong on.  -tom
                           \_ was there an insult in there somewhere?  you
                              can try harder than that.  after lunch of course.
           \_ In addition 30% of Americans can't find Iraq on the maps and
              %68.22 of all statistics are made up ;)
              \_ There are 3 types of people in this world - those that can
                 count and those that can't.
              \_ Americans being unable to find anything on a map has no
                 bearing on anything.  Germans thinking 911 was some bizarre
                 US government conspiracy despite tremendous evidence to the
                 contrary is dangerous because they make policy decisions and
                 elect their leaders based on that stupidity which hurts us
                 all.  And no it isn't 68.22%.  There are studies that show
                 that 85% of all people who say some percentage of statistics
                 are made up are making that up when we all really know it's
                 only 38% of all statistics that are made up.
2003/7/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29114 Activity:very high
7/23    Time to unionize.
        \_ unionize what?  you need a job before you have a union.  maybe
           you missed the part where most unions are giving huge concessions
           and letting their members get laid off these days?
           \_ concessions are usually given when the business is in
              serious trouble (e.g. airlines, auto industry, etc). however,
              even in troubling times, union's can still negotiate pay scale,
              benefits, no outsourcing to india/china/russia, and basically
              keep americans employed. Given that there are still legions of
              computer-related workers gainfully employed, they could flex
              their clout and be a power to be reckoned with in the company
              board room and washington. when the economy is going good, most
              people buy the company line that no union is necessary, but now
              we are in bad times, and ideas like unionizing starts to gain
              some appeal. Imagine what could happen if workers organized
              at Microsoft, HP, Sun, and IBM.
                \_ the same thing that happened to all those organized
                   auto and steel workers in Detroit and Pittsburgh.  -tom
              \_ the same thing that happened to the organized auto and
                 steel workers in Detroit and Pittsburgh.  -tom
                 \_ the job losses in Detroit could have been much worse
                    without unions, and also protectionist measures brought
                    on by both unions and the auto companies.
              \_ I imagine they'd send 90% of those jobs to India and the
                 other 10% would take a pay cut to keep their jobs.  That's
                 what I imagine.  Hello?  Bad economy?  Worker glut!  The
                 airlines, auto, etc industries have to put up with unions
                 because they can't use Indian pilots and stewards or move
                 auto production offshore (due to tariffs and protectionism).
                 Your info job can be moved offshore quite easily because your
                 physical location isn't meaningful for most IT jobs and since
                 you're not dealing with the public directly (such as an
                 airline steward) the public doesn't know or care if you or
                 someone in Bombay wrote that line of code.  And obviously
                 the IT industry not only doesn't have protection like the
                 auto industry but through the H1b and L programs the Feds
                 are actually encouraging the use of non-citizens to destroy
                 the local job base in IT.  End the H1 and L programs and send
                 the current H1/L people home and you'll have several job
                 offers to choose from by the end of the same week.
                 \_ Exactly! these programs won't end on their own because
                    it directly benefits big business. The only way to change
                    this is through organizations like unions.
                    If companies continue to outsource their IP, they will
                    lose in the end. These foreign companies will in essence
                    take over since they have such low costs. The future
                    Bill Gates of india/china/russia should be very happy
                    about now.
                    \_ Unions won't stop H1b/L programs.  Only lobbying will.
                       Unions are anti-corporation.  Lobbying = change gov't
                       policy.  It's nice to see you understand the
                       underlying issue if not the correct solution.
        \_ anybody have a copy of that picture of Bill Gates getting the
           red dot in the forehead in India?  That epitomizes the future of
           the tech industry.
                \_ Wrong.  A lot of Indian tech outfits are moving production
                   to China/Vietnam.  First, 'production' is the key word. The
                   concept of an economic 'core' and 'periphery' assumes that
                   production of goods/services which have matured (see steel
                   and electronics) move to places that have better economies
                   of scale.  Note how production of TVs and toasters moved
                   out of the US--did that kill the US electronics industry?
                   Next, you'll never get rid of 'on-the-ground' services.
                   Bad example, but still somehow fitting, is Mango, a Spanish
                   clothing chain.  They produce in Spain, which is pricier
                   than, say, Malaysia, but lets them get new requirements to
                   market quicker.  The argument against this is that we're
                   talking about information rather than goods, but face time
                   will always be important.  As for unions, look at Germany
                   as a good case study for why unions in their current state
                   (note my wording) are a dead duck.  They kill the economy
                   by refusal to adapt or provide up-to-date services to
                   members, and are really only relevant to an ever-shrinking
                   pool of 'grunt' workers.  I realize this is an over-
                   generalization, but suggesting unionization as a solution
                   to the migration of tech jobs and mistreatment of tech
                   workers is kind of a dead end.  -John
                   \_ The German worker is the most productive and highly
                      paid in the world. He also works less than anyone
                      but the French. This is hardly an argument against
                      unionization. The German economy is not doing that
                      well, but the German standard of living is high and
                      there is almost no poverty. Germany's biggest problem
                      is due to their unwillingness to admit enough immigants
                      to overcome the demographic problem of the aging
                      population. Re: unions, ask a carpenter, plumber,
                      or electrician how unionization is working out for
                      them. System administration is alot more like these
                      skilled trades and would do well with a union. -ausman
                      \_ "The German worker" includes white collar & service
                         industry, which make up the majority of the German
                         workforce.  IGM and similar unions pushing for the
                         35-hour week represent a small, obsolete, and
                         shrinking percentage of the German workforce.  In
                         addition, the German economy is one of the slowest
                         growing in Europe, coasting on the success of the
                         last 50 years.  So no, my original point stands. -John
                      \_ The American worker is the world's most productive
                         by far, not the German.  Germany's economy is deep
                         in the shitter for many reasons such as population
                         aging, overly generous benefits and pension plans,
                         lack of immigration and excessively high taxes to
                         pay for everything.  It's a vicious cycle spiraling
                         ever downwards.  Their current batch of politicians
                         understands this and is trying to do something about
                         it without losing their own jobs.  The people are
                         screaming bloody murder of course.  I don't think
                         they'll recover until they've had a complete
                         economic collapse and all government services simply
                         cease.  Then they can invade France.  :-)
                            \_ THe unemployment rate is 25% in parts of Germany.
                               \_ They have also been saddled with the former
                                  East Germany situation. Anyway in my opinion,
                                  Europe's concern with standard of living is
                                  the way to go. What's wrong with tariffs and
                                  protectionism against slavedriver countries?
                         \_ You are simply wrong. Productity (output per
                            hour worked) is slightly higher all over Europe
                            than in the US. Do a google search and you will
                            see. Unemployment is high because of labor saving
                            techniques and the use of things like robots,
                            which Germany is #1 in the world. The only thing
                            America excels at is in the total number of hours
                            worked. To me, that is a good argument for
                            unions, not against them. I sure wish I had
                            six weeks of vacation a year. -ausman
                            \_ Jim, once again you are basing your statement
                               on a blanket definition of 'the German worker'.
                               This does not apply to the (unionized) blue
                               collar sector, and their unemployment cannot
                               simply be chalked up to mechanization.  A large
                               part of it is employers balking at the pension
                               burden imposed by government labor laws.  In
                               addition I should mention that compared to US
                               or UK organizational culture, my experience
                               with German white collar workers has shown a
                               markedly lesser bent towards efficiency.  -John
                            \_ I bow to John's superior knowledge and personal
                               experience at this point and simply say, "Yeah!
                               What John said!  That's right!"  --other person
                               \_ I was gonna let this thread die at that, but
                                  I came back from lunch and cannot resist it.
                                  Unemployment in West Germany is 8.1% and
                                  falling. Contrast that to the USA, which is
                                  at 6.4% and rising and has 1-2% of the labor
                                  pool in prison. I don't know what the
                                  problem with East Germany is. Got any
                                  urls to back up the blue collar vs.
                                  white collar productivity statement? I
                                  cannot find anything with casual googling
                                  and everything I have read in The Economist
                                  tends to indicate otherwise. -ausman
                                   \_The rate varies widely across the country.
                                     In Bavaria that may be the case, in Berlin
                                     its 25%+.  Maybe the German's I know are
                                     lying - what is your source.
        http://www.arbeitsamt.de/hst/services statistik/english/s002e.pdf _/
        I am pretty sure Berlin qualifies as "East Germany" -ausman
        \_ The problem isn't the unemployment.  The problem is the doomed
           pension system, coupled with an incredible income tax rate (>50%)
           and an overly bureaucratic system hostile to innovation.  -John
           and an overly bureaucratic system hostile to innovation.  And yes
           I do know a lot about the German economy because I live next door
           and follow the situation fairly closely.  Germany's economy is
           seriously broken, by their government's own tacit admission.  And
           yes, they're too gutless to fix it (which would mean some serious
           pain all around.)  -John
           \_ We can have a discussion about the effect of tax rates on
              long term economic growth another time. I think how
              government money is spent is more important than how much
              though. See Sweden vs US for an interesting case. All of
              the big economies have the pension problem and all will
              end up having to solve it the same way (raising the retirement
              ago) imo. Dunno about the bureaucracy, but in the past Germany
              has prided itself on its union/corporate co-operative culture.
              Now I really have to stop participating in this and get
              some work done! -ausman
              \_ Sweden?  Are you trying to say they don't have economic
                 problems similar to Germany (albeit on a smaller scale as
                 they are a less populous country)?  Sweden isn't exactly a
                 hotbed of innovation or growing economic power.  At least
                 Germany has something to recover back to if/after their
                 economy collapses.  Sweden?  Too small, no real industry,
                 insufficient base of people in the labor pool, and on and on
                 and on....  I'd bet 5 bucks on Germany doing better 20 years
                 from now than Sweden.  --other person
2003/7/23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29110 Activity:nil
7/22    Am I the only one, or does http://cnn.com's coverage of Uday/Qusay
        resemble the Starship Troopers patriotism commercials, especially
        when the soldiers find the Brain Bug, except this time it's U.S.
        troops surrounding the Hussein brothers and celebrating?
        \_ a lot of the propaganda for that film was inspired by
           nazi and italian fascist propaganda.  -sax
           \_ Of course, that all really misses the point of Heinlein's vision
              of the United States in the book...but since I haven't seen my
              copy in months or years, what would I know?
           \_ yeah, patriotism is a bad thing, down with gov't! if u hate
              it so much, leave. I hear Canada is looking for people
              \_ You go first, take your menorah with you.  We don't like
                 dying for your kind in the desert.
              \_ Dude...nationalism != patriotism.  Confusing the two is
                 stupid and often destructive to the values this country was
                 supposed to have been built upon.
                 \_ What exactly is nationalism?
              \_ yes, mindless patriotism is a bad thing.  every nation
                 in the world has patriotism and nationalism.  if being
                 and American just means blind faith in the stars and
                 stripes to you, it is you who should go move somewhere else.
        \_ "Remember:  Service Guarantees Citizenship"
2022/06/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/7/14-16 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:29025 Activity:low
7/13    What are the hotel chains operating in Germany and scandinavian
        countries, similiar in comfort level to motels in the U.S. and
        Etap in europe??  Searching the web gives too many (bad) answers.
        (Yes, I know there are etaps in Germany but am looking for more
        \_ There are also some Formule 1 (French chain).  Your best bet is
           probably some small pensions, though.  -John
        \_ If you can afford a little bit more, there are Courtyard by
           Marriott hotels which is clearly an American chain as well.
        \_ Mercure is in Germany at least.
2003/7/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Computer/SW/OS/Solaris] UID:28923 Activity:nil
7/3     The BLOB: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3039102.stm
        New Solaris System found: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3041220.stm
2003/7/3 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28908 Activity:nil
7/2     LURD Performs Ritual To Hold Ganta -Buries Alive Girl, Cow
        \_ you read free republic.
        \_ we all know that it's ecchang posting all the free republic links.
        \_ wrong -op
        \_ wow, you are pathetic. you delete my freeper post and replace your
2003/7/2 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28904 Activity:high
7/2     Europe is a strange place:
        \_ I think you mean, "Europe is a cool place."
           \_ Util you're hit by a guy having sex with a hitch hiker at
              road speed on the highway.
              \_  They're talking about the autobahn here.  If a nation has
                  already shown they're stupid enough to have no speed limit,
                  why stop there?  Besides, I don't think oral sex while
                  driving is that bad, as long as the driver is the
                  recipient.  It's better than the asses who try to read in
                  the car.
                  \_ What was the name of the movie where Robin Williams rams
                     his car into the back of his wife's car while she's going
                     down on some kid?  You're right.  It's not that bad.
                     \_ The World According to Garp
                     Seriously though, if you can drive and not be distracted
                     by a good solid dick sucking then either you're broken or
                     you need a new lover.
2003/7/1 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28880 Activity:nil
7/01    http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,5500,987933,00.html
        Okay I have a UK report to share too.  This one about lockdown and
        reprogramming of U.S. youths.  I'm sure you'll all be most enthused.
        \_ US youths need re-education.  They need to learn how not to
           be members of criminal gangs and how to read, write, do arithmetic,
           show up to work consistently, and not have kids during teen years.
           \_ RACIST!
           \_ So you probably didn't read the article, which depicts
              brainwashing techniques straight out of Red China.  I agree
              with you regarding what kids should and shouldn't be doing,
              but this definitely isn't the way to acheive it.
           \_ Yup, all US youths are thugz and smooth criminals.  Right.
2003/7/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28876 Activity:high
6/30    It's only war crime when someone else is doing it...
        \_ Perhaps because it is not in our nation's best interest to defer
           to vague international bodies on this or any other matters?  Also,
           while you're chewing over that consider that the US has a real court
           system, a culture that creates citizens opposed to any sort of war
           crime (in fact, the US invented the concept), and given that any
           body that lacks the power to enforce it's edicts is useless so is
           the ICC.  The US is the only thing that gives the UN or any other
           similar entity any authority.  If we withdrew and ignored all of
           these pesky little socialist clubs they'd all collapse.  I'm not
           sure if you were trolling or you actually believe in all these
           silly little multinational oddities but they do not and in fact
           can not work as you might wish.  There is no such thing as
           'international law' outside the fantasies of certain anti-American
           Europeans (France, Belgium, Germany) and the Blame America First
           crowd in the US. -xyz
           \_ Of course it's not in the purity temple's interest to submit to
              foreign oversight.  They're all terrorists.  Probably have
              weapons of mass detruction too.  Let's nuke them, because any
              nation that threatens another...
              \_ If you had a real response instead of knee jerking I'd be
                 happy to discuss it with you.  -xyz
           \_ bye bye "isolationism" -- being sold with the same rationale1
              bravo doublespeak miracles from the new reich!
              \_ I'm not in favor of isolationism.  Submitting to the will of
                 Eurocrats and the third world is not the only way to
                 participate in the world. -xyz
           \_ Most countries' citizens are opposed to war crimes, except that
              they tend to overlook the crimes when it's committed by their
              own country.  It is the same for US.  That's why we need UN.
                                                                - fgh
           \_ It is in our nation's best interest to work through international
              bodies rather than act like a gung-ho cowboy.  US is suffering
              from classic overextension, and its strength is overrated.
              Our military rules but it is resulting in huge budget deficit,
              and putting a huge drag on our tired economy.  States are
              close to bankrupt, trade deficit is soaring, fed has no more
              room to cut interest rate.  US economy is supported by asian
              nations buying US treasuries, stocks and US dollars.  That should
              not be something we should count on forever.    - abc
2003/6/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28840 Activity:high
6/25    http://csua.org/u/3dc
        The European Union crazies try to turn the world upside down!  This is
        great stuff.  It's so funny watching them destroy themselves.
        \_ Please shorten your url using http://csua.org/u
           \_ And surrender my god given right to motd anonymity?
                \_ then use tinyurl.  It is faster and works better anyway.
        \_ That's simply infantile and self-destructive everyday stuff.  The
           thing that's _really_ worrisome is the EU's fairly quick knuckling-
           under to US State Dept. rules "suggested" for non-US governments
           that require things like biometric identifiers in all forms of
           ID and passports, automatic handover of data on all airline
           passengers to the US the moment they leave the ground, and the
           placement of US customs agents in European ports.  If you're just
           looking for the usual silly shit, search for regulations dealing
           with the curvature of bananas and the likes.  -John
           \_ Biometrics?  Nothing wrong with that.  The current ID systems
              are so worthless that identify theft has become common place,
              destroying the lives of the victims.  Automated handover of who
              is on a flight to the US?  Uhm, hello?  So what?  And what's
              wrong with Americans screening visitors to America?  Give up
              the Swiss passport and return home before you're completely
              \_ Wow, you're calling John brainwashed? Just wow.
                 \_ Yes.  I knew him when he was an American and didn't spend
                    half his posts talking about his Swiss passport.
                 \_ Don't you have to have a brain to be brainwashed?
           \_ there are no EU regulations concerning the curvature of
              bananas.  -crebbs
              \_ http://www.quebecoislibre.org/020119-6.htm
                 \_ That's great. My statement stands.  The fact that some
                    media (or in this case some interest group) reports
                 \_ That's great. My statement stands. At the risk of having
                    been trolled, I will attempt some education:  That some
                    media (or in this case some political group) reports
                    something doesn't make it so.  I notice that page refers
                    to other specific EU regulation numbers when mentioning
                    other (presumably real) silly Euro rules, but does not
                    be that there are not regulations concerning the curvature
                    of bananas?

                    (surprise surprise) mention the regulation when referring
                    to the banana thing.  That would be (in case you missed it)
                    because there aren't any. -crebbs
        \_ So I take it you are in favor of demeaning women and offending
           human dignity, is that it?
           \_ Hi troll!  Yes, I am.  I'm also in favor of more hot chicks on
              page 3 and eliminating actuarial tables so the insurance industry
              is destroyed and no one has any insurance anymore.  Or maybe the
              government can insure all the citizens and pay for it with a tax
              increase.  I'm guessing that raising taxes by 40% should do it.
              \_ Dona botta me mang, Imma onna da dole! 40% of nutin is nutin.
                 \_ We can tax your unemployment.
              \_ Oh, that poor fragile highly profitable insurance industry!
                 They'd never stoop to taking goverment handouts if they
                 were about to lose money for a quarter!
                 \_ You're an idiot.  I don't know about Europe but in the US
                    the insurance companies take a bath everytime there's an
                    earthquake, flood, or hurricane.  If it wasn't for Federal
                    help, there'd be no insurance companies.
              \_ So I am a troll for responding to your troll... Uh huh.
2003/6/22-23 [Recreation/Pets, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28806 Activity:low
6/22    I *knew* it!  I knew they were tapping my brain with electrical
        waves!  http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1330758&nav=168XGVQf
        \_ protect yourself now: http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html
2003/6/12 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28710 Activity:nil
6/11    All Hail the UN
        Congo observers slaughtered after 6 days of
        unanswered pleas to U.N. for rescue
        \_ This is hardly news.  It's the UN.  Duh.
        \_ Those poor observers.  Must be because they are not westerners,
           so no one cared about their lives.
2003/6/4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28626 Activity:high
6/2     Any independent contractors out there?  Are you finding work these
        \_ Yes.  But I'm in Europe.  There is a lot of international contract
           work for experienced specialists, but much of it is through UK
           agencies, which are slimier than most (and currently there's a far
           higher proportion of headhunters just harvesting resumes than I've
           elsewhere.)  If that doesn't bother you, jobserve.co.uk is a good
           start.  -John
           \_ How hard was it for you to get work authorization in Europe?
              \_ Very.  The US is the easiest country in the world to get a
                 permit as an alien.  Europe and certain Asian countries are
                 near impossible.  They have their own job loss issues.  What
                 do they need you there for taking up a job of a local?
2003/5/24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28542 Activity:nil
5/25    France was crying foul
        when Hitler occupied France.  Yet after Ally's victory, France
        turned around continue its occupation of Algeria and so-called
        Indo-China.  What justified French occupation of its "interest"
        while condemn the Nazi Germany for doing the same thing?
        What is the differences between Nazi dumping Jews to ghettoss
        versus USA dump its Japanese decents to concentration camp?
        Is the fact that USA and France is a democracy justify these
2003/5/24 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28540 Activity:very high
5/25    More on US racist imperialism
        \_ this is a good site in terms of murder by government statistics,
           but like (it often seems) everyone, they just aren't too bright.
           I'm sick of hearing this drivel about how "democracies" don't
           fight one another.
           \_ what's the most destructive war you can think of in which
              both sides were democracies?
                   \- how many democracies were there in the world between
                      1648 and 1945? --psb
                      1648 and 1945? how many democracies were there in
                      the year 1812? --psb
              \_ world war II, Hitler was democratically elected as was
                 mussolini.  Finland was a democracy at the time they
                 were fighting on the side of Germany et. al.  The whole
                 idea is just stupid.  It is more true and slightly less
                 meaningless to say "countries with mcdonald's in them
                 don't go to war against each other."  That is to say
                 that countries with stong economic interdependencies
                 and countries with similar cultures, are less likely to
                     \- the interdependence theory [sic] is pretty iffy.
                        in fact it isnt really a theory. does it apply to
                        france and england since 1066? were the alliances
                        of the peloponessian was explained by "cultural
                        and econ ties"? how about the post 1945 relations
                        between the US, Su and China? and of course the
                        war of 1812 again. the main problem is like that
                        with freudian theory ... it's hard to test because
                        it is so vague. it's not so much right or wrong
                        but either meaningless or more charitably an
                        assertion not a theory. (see APSR Dec97,pp913-917)
                        the %GDP in exports in 1900 was quite high ... that
                        level wasnt equalled for almost 50yrs after ww2.
                        remember states (should) seek security. interdependence
                        (often) means vulnurability. do you think germany
                        and japan liked being "interdependent" on other
                        countries for oil in the 1930s? there is a
                        huge lit on this since kohane and nye book.
                        e.g. http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/copeland.htm
                 go to war; but the idea of being a democracy somehow
                 magically keeping you from making war on other democracies
                 is just stupid.
                 \_ They were elected but then took over and made them into
                    100% dictatorships.  They were not democracies in any
                    sense of the word by the time any shooting started.  I'm
                    so tired of know nothing smart asses like you spouting off
                    like you know something.  This isn't a dorm lounge chat at
                    3am about whether or not God exists.  It's the motd and you
                    can't get away with making up shit like that here.
                    \_ dear moron, i notice you didn't address Finland.  Also
                       I can name a number of other examples of democracies
                        \_ Finland was a semi-autocratic nation under Field
                           Marshal Mannerheim at the time.  Likewise, it was
                           not a case of 'two democratic nations', as their
                           alliance with the Germans was a logical continuation
                           of being invaded by the USSR in 1939 and losing >10%
                           of their territory.  Your point about nukes is wrong,
                           and your historical points are shaky.  Likewise, your
                           list of criteria about nations with residual
                           totalitarianism below will find few applications in
                           modern Europe.  Plus, 'dear moron' is not a way
                           to win arguments.  Just some free advice.  -John
                       fighting one another, but you will just explain all of
                       them away until you are left making some stupid
                       statement which boils down to "Europe hasn't had any
                       warfare since world war II".  (btw, the reason for this
                       is simple:  NUKES).  I was asked for the "most
                       destructive" example and i gave it.  It is not the best.
                       It was the most destructive though.  Asking to specify
                       "the most destructive" is practically an admission of
                        defeat already.  If you don't accept democratically
                        elected govenments that turn dict. then you prob.
                        don't accept countries with nominal/residual monarchy
                        or countries with slavery/without universal suffrage
                        with makes the NUMBER of democracy/years in existence
                        pretty damn small with which to be making sweeping
                        generalizations like this.  Of course, a complete
                        lack of data points (or intelligence) has never been
                        enough to stop Poly Sci folks from spouting nonsese.
                 \_ aristotle hated democracies cos he felt it ruined athens.
                    caused them the wwar.
                    \-how is this relevant? i'm tempted to say this is
                      wrong, but it is really more correct to say this is
                      meaningless. --psb
                 \_ Very well stated.  who is this? -scotsman
                 \_ Exactly. There may be some anecdotal evidence that
                                               \- it's not "anecdotal
                                                  evidence". it's an
                                                  issue of is it a
                                                  "mere corrletation"
                                                  or is there a causal
                                                  explanation. and then
                                                  is the data fudged
                                                  on the correlation at
                                                  all. --psb
                    democracies don't go to war with one another, but
                    if you consider why countries go to war, there is
                    no reason a democracy wouldn't go to war with another
                 \_ Ooo Yea baby!  I've been waiting to hear this for some
                    \_ And you're incapable of typing it yourself?
                       \_ Too hard for me.
                          \-Hello, YMWTS: ~psb/DemoWar.commentarii. --psb
                            \_ How about adding another counfounding variable:
                               the deep fear of war European nations
                               (where a large number of the world's
                               democracies are) had after WWI and WWII,
                               which broke down the barriers for greater
                               efforts at integration such as the EU.
                               Or is that weak?
                                  \- What are you trying to explain?
                                     yes weak. "fear went down" is not
                                     an explanation; it is an assertion.
                                     why didnt the EC happen after the
                                     "fear went down" after napoleon was
                                     defeated? the concert of europe was
                                     a very different answer than the EC.
                                     how about "the frenchies stopped
                                     fearing someone capturing paris again
                                     aftger developing their "force de
                                     frappe". on the period between ww1/2
                                     see EHCarr 20 yrs crisis. that is a
                                     damn good book and Keynes: Econ
                                     Conseq Peace.
                                     On the point of everything being
                                     warm and fuzzy among the euro-allies:
                                     what do you think is more likely:
                                     --brit/france turn over their nuke
                                       arsenals to a "EC joint nuke command"
                                     --"team player germany" builds its
                                       own nukes.
                                       now it is possible neither will happen
                                       in the next 20yrs, but if you were a
                                       betting man, which would you bet on?
                                     \_ But but but, isn't it true that the
                                        nationalism and naitional rivalry
                                        among European nations as seen in
                                        the earlier half of the 20th
                                        century very much went away?  Isn't
                                        that part of the reaction to the
                                        horrors of WWI and WWII?  Or do you
                                        there a better theory for it?
                            \_ To add to it, another coun
2003/5/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28425 Activity:high
5/13    http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/05/13/microsoft.hoax.ap/index.html
        \_ just another example of how microsoft announces a product they
           don't intend to finish, just to fuck people over.
           \_ fuck over who exactly?  anyway, the truth is they put this out
              there to see how people would respond and everyone made fun of
              them so they dropped it and retracted.  if the response had been
              positive they sure as hell would've done it.  it wasn't a hoax.
           \_ Okay, now that's just weak.  Why use a sexual reference when a
              scatalogical one would be so much better?
        \_ I'm devastated that i won't get to brows the net while I dump.
           \_ bring your own keyboard
           \_ womens restrooms have dual purpose mousepads
        \_ MS clarifies: Actually, it wasn't a hoax.
           \_ Maybe it was originally a US idea.  Then after it got laughed at
              so much, they blaimed it on the UK division.
              \_ Blame the French!
2003/5/5-6 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28331 Activity:nil
5/5     Has anyone noticed problems with getting parts through customs
        which were ordered from France or Germany?
        -waiting for parts
        \_ they're on the 'helping the terrorists' list.
2003/4/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:28270 Activity:kinda low
4/30    http://nypress.com/16/18/news&columns/cage.cfm
        \_ Nice.  In all fairness, description as follows:
           Scathing Op/Ed piece on NYTimes' lack of journalistic integrity.
2003/4/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28258 Activity:very high
4/28    "Remember, I am above Internation Law"
        \_ I'm not sure that the reporter did all their homework here. I
           remember hearing about this being planned a few weeks ago, and
           that Belgium had changed their law to prevent exactly this from
           happening.  I don't believe this is a credible new news story.
        \_ Ah, the gauntlet is thrown down.  A Belgian suing a non-Belgian for
           doing stuff outside of Belgium, by Belgian law.  Can't we just make
           that illegal, and the two bizarro-laws will cancel out?
           \_ how come you weren't bitching when Serbian leader were
              on trial?
              \_ The motd is not the only forum I participate in.  Additionally,
                 the court for Milosevic was convened by multiple countries,
                 after massive attrocities were exposed and he was deposed.  It
                 wasn't a random person in country A suing him.
                 \_ we don't participate in your other forums so it doesn't
                    count for shit here.  So you seem to think that as long as
                    multiple countries want to try the leader of another
                    country it's ok?  Or only after he loses an election?
                    \_ Um, Milo. was deposed by force.  You remember the bombing
                       campaign that Clinton authorized without the approval of
                       anyone else?
                       \_ He was voted out.
        \_ Given the precedent of s/France|French/Freedom/g, anyone
           want to guess what Belgium|Belgian will be replaced with?
           \_ haven't you read Douglas Adams?  Belgium is the worst word there
              \_ Which book is this in? I've read most of the books, but I
                 don't remember anything about this.
                 \_ One of the original three HGttG books.
           \_ Bravery waffles!
           \_ chocolate floormat?
           \_ Nothing.  Except for the random international burping like this
              no news comes out of Belgium.  They only do shit like this so
              we don't forget they exist.  They have no power so no one cares.
                \_ France has no power (except in gourmet and fashion circles),
                   yet we do stupid shit like French = Freedom.
                   \_ Wow, Mommy bred 'em pretty willing to shoot off their
                      mouths without knowing a damn thing didn't she? Read up
                      a little son. We all wish France was powerless but it
                      just isn't so. They are simply less powerful than the
                      US or the UK. They are every bit as sleazy.
                      \_ The US/UK isn't at all sleazy.  Both have plenty of
                         problems but sleaze isn't one of them.
2003/4/28-29 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28252 Activity:low
4/28    Am I the only one who's noticed that if you compare the map of
        Middle Earth to the U.S. Mordor is right where Texas is?
        \_ It's New Zealand
        \_ And if you compare it to Europe, it's France.
           \_ No, it's more like ... Austria.
        \_ Yes, you are because it would take some serious drugs and a hard
           core blind hatred of a passing political figure to see that.  If it
           was the bay area, it'd be San Jose.  So what?
           \_ my hatred of Bush is not so blind, I have plenty of
              valid reasons.
           \_ passing political figure?  you mean Bush?  pah!  I'd associate
              him as much with New England as with Texas.  Texas just really
              really sucks.  Try actually spending some time there, and
              you'll see that people don't hate texas because of some
              "passing political figure," they hate it because it's a
              fucking pit(except Austin).
2003/4/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28184 Activity:insanely high
4/21    Further evidence of how fucked up California, in
        particular SF, has become (a multicultural utopia).
        Bill would force hiring of cross-dressers
        \_ and the Klan has to hire them black people to do their organizing!
        \_ No bible shop is complete without a flaming queen cross dresser.
        \_ If you don't like California so much, why not move to a place more
           to your liking?  I hear they kick some faggot ass up in Laramie,
           \_ Funny how when the other side says to folks, "America, love it
              or leave it", you lefties get upset but it's ok for you to
              blather out little lines like that.
              \_ Because "Love it or leave it" has an implicit threat.  His
                 question is formed as just that.  A question.
                \_ good point!
                   \_ I know you are but what am I?
                      \_ A hypocrite if you're a "California, love it or
                         leave it!" leftist.
                         \_ I also love how you completely missed the
                            reference to Matthew Shepard.
                            \_ I didn't miss it.  I ignored it because it was
                               meaningless in this context.  It may come as a
                               shock to you but some people who don't share
                               your politics read newspapers and watch cnn.
        \_ You don't know jack shit about what was here before 1960.
           Read a little history. This place has been a little different
           since the first tent went up in Yerba Buena. Of course straight
           idiots have decorated it from time to time.
           -- born here, been here.
           \_ actually that's not true.
                \_ You have no sense of history.  Kerouac and the rest of
                   the beatniks (a term coined by Herb Caen) were here in
                   the 50's, and were attracted to the area by its alternative
                   culture.  -tom
                   \_ Ding!  Indeed.  Also, read up on the suffrage movement,
                      the hallucinigen researchers in the 30's and 40's, etc.
                      My family has lived here since well before the turn of
                      the century.  California has always been "progressive",
                      though I think a better term is "tolerant." --scotsman
                      \_ Really?  Tell that to the natives, the Spanish and
                         the Mexicans.
                         \_ Okay, granted, my use of the term "always" was
                            ill-advised, but this comment is irrelevant to
                            the current discussion. --scotsman
                            \_ Not if you're a native, or Spanish or Mexican.
                               The fact is this state has only been so-called
                               'progressive' if you're part of a big group that
                               has votes, money, power, or some other form of
                               control over the government and media.
        \_ California has been the land of the risk-takers and the eccentric
           since the gold rush in 1849.  For example, Joshua Norton, a failed
           speculator on the rice market, flipped his lid in the 1850s and
           declared himself Norton I, Emperor of the United States and
           Protector of Mexico, becoming the first famous homeless person
           in San Francisco.  Tourists from all over the country knew his
           name.  He minted his own money, dissolved the union in the Civil
           War, and declared there should be a suspension bridge connecting
           Oakland and San Francisco, at the time a ridiculous notion.
           He also was known for stopping a race riot, making him one of
           the earliest Bay Area activists.                     -brain
           \_ The gold-mad and profiteers are a big part of the story, but
              the Mormon settlement Brennan created amidst the Russian
              holdings can't be ignored when trying to understand how we
              found enough stability to keep the region from tearing
              itself apart.
           \_ What does some random insane guy from the 1800s have to do with
              modern politics in CA?
              \_ Not just any random insane guy.  Over 10,000 people attended
                 his funeral.
                 \_ Yes, that still has nothing to do with anything regarding
                    politics in CA in the last century.
                       HAPPENED BEFORE 1900! HISTORY IS A LIE!
                       \_ What's 1900? This is the year "03" and there
                          aren't any non-positive years, right?
                       \_ Idiot, don't put words in my mouth.  I said no such
                          thing and claiming it in ALL CAPS doesn't make it so.
                          The funeral attendance for one insane guy from 150+
                          years ago has *nothing* to do with modern politics in
                          this state.  That is at best a minor footnote in the
                          history of this state.  Why do I respond to such
                          infantile noise anyway?
        \_ They already have laws like this in much of Europe and somehow
           the sky hasn't fallen in there. -ausman
           \_ Really?  Seen the unemployment rate in Germany and many other
              EU countries?  Their economies are wrecked.  Ours is doing
              fantastically well by comparison.  Not only that but we have the
              additional burden of essentially being the EU military.  Let's
              bring the troops home, let the EU defend themselves and see
              what happens.  I bet the sky falls.
                \_ not discriminating against cross dressers leads to
                   the economy falling apart?
                 4-6% are "discouraged" workers, which don't count in
                   \_ Nice try.  Go check the unemployment stats.  I'll explain
                      since you insist on being intentionally stupid: having an
                      endless array of laws that restrict and over control the
                      economy leads to inefficiencies which leads to a poor
                      economy and high unemployment rates.  See the Soviet
                      Union for a great example of what should have been a
                      power house economy collapsing in on itself due to
                      over control and lack of incentive.
                      \_ Hm, I suspect that you're neglecting to take
                         into account that the Soviet Union was a massive
                         military state.  I'd be willing to bet that had more
                         to do with it's complete collapse than 'over control'.
                         \_ The US was also a massive military state during the
                            same period of time.  Yet they collapsed and the
                            US only grew stronger.
                            \_ Not really. I can probably dredge
                               up numbers if you care, but the soviet union
                               was maintaining an active wartime economy
                               for decades.  Compare the relative sizes of
                               the militaries for the US and Soviet Union
                               in the late 80's.  If my memory serves
                               correctly (at least wrt to armor units) the
                               Soviets had NATO outnumbered by a factor of
                               3-1 or something obscene like that.  As a side
                               note, I don't think the US has had a wartime
                               economy since WWII, though I'm probably
                               mistaken.  You might also want to recall that
                               the degree of corruption was obscene and
                               certainly didn't help.
                      \_ cross-dressing laws are like communism? go
                         fucking read atlas shrugged five more tiems or
                         \_ I'm done responding to the intentionally stupid.
                            If you don't have a real response, don't bother.
                            I've been trolled enough by you and have given up
                            trying to draw you into a real conversation on the
              \_ I'll take that bet.
                 \_ If you can get the troops home and get the EU to pay for
                    their own defense I'd vote for you for President and
                    happily concede the bet.
              \_ Don't kid yourself. GDP/hour worked has been increasing
                 faster in Western Europe than in the US for over a
                 generation. They also have more free time, longer,
                 healthier lives and a more even income distribution. The
                 US unemployment figures only look good because 2% of
                 our working age population is in prison and another
                 2-6% are "discouraged" workers, which don't count in
                 the official statistics. Germany and France are running
                 favorable trade surpluses and have a smaller government
                 deficit. I agree with you about bringing the troops
                 in Europe home, though. We cannot afforde to subsidize
                 European defence any longer. -ausman
                 \_ Do you have figures for GDP/hour worked?  Not the rate of
                    increase but the raw value, like $x/1hour?  What's x?
                    Rates aren't that interesting if it'll take 50 years to
                    catch up.
                  \_ Unemployment in Germany in >25% in many areas (e.g.
                     Berlin).  The only commercially viable area is Bavaria.
                     Most of Europe enforces a maximum work week of
                     35-40 hours to keep unemployment down - this is a sign
                     of a strong economy?  French and German
                     pension liabilities are
                     well in excess of their GDPs, and in France between
                     1/3 and 1/2 of all children under 10 are Muslim.
                     Europe is economic powerhouse, indeed.  Their are
                     Muslim slums in France where the police do not ever
                     go, they have lost complete control of these areas.
2003/4/11 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28092 Activity:high
4/11    Saw a poll somewhere.  U.S. people think our greatest threat is:
        1) North Korea  (~39%?)
        2) Iraq (20 something percent)
        3) France (7%)
        4) China (5%)
        5) Liechtenstein (17%)
        6) Swaziland (pi%)
        \_ 5) Liechtenstein (17%)
           6) Swaziland (pi%)
        \_ France?  How did it get in this poll?
        \_ Dubya should end every speech with "And France must be destroyed".
        \_ Can you post the source please?
           \_ saw it as a news bulletin at the bottom of screen on fox news.
        \_ Threat may not be purely militaristic.
2003/4/7 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28019 Activity:very high
4/5     French Football Signals
        \_  I'm missing something about all this French-hating.  France,
            Russia and China all threatened to veto the use of force in
            the UN security council.  So why is everyone singling out the
            French?  Because they are allies whos ass we saved in WWII?
            the same could be said for New Zealand, who is also opposed
            to the war. Perhaps you should boycott Return of the King when
            it comes out so you don't have to support kiwi-eating surrender
        \_ I'm missing something about all this French-hating.
            France, Russia and China all threatened to veto the use of
            force in the UN security council.  So why is everyone
            singling out the French?  Because they are allies whos ass
            we saved in WWII? the same could be said for New Zealand,
            who is also opposed to the war. Perhaps you should boycott
            Return of the King when it comes out so you don't have to
            support kiwi-eating surrender monkeys.
             \_ Because the French not only spearheaded it but did
                really obnoxious and uniquely french things like saying
                they rejected a British compromise proposal to avert
                immediate war before the Iraqis had rejected it.  If
                you'd been paying attention you would know "why the
        \_ That's pretty funny
           \_ well, no.
              \_ Get a new sense of humor.  It was fucking hilarious.
                 \_ you're right!  the french are cowardly and smelly!
                    ha ha!
                    \_ Hey, this is as funny as conservatives get,
                       enjoy it while you can.
                       \_ Silly boy, must everything with you be this bi polar
                          conservative vs liberal nonsense?  Maybe sometimes,
                          just sometimes, something can be funny because it's
                          just funny.  This is one of those times.  Laugh.
                          The link is funny.  -!op
                          \_ Vote:
                             funny .
                             not funny ..
                                \_ *laugh* a motd vote... ok, whatever.  Did
                                   you run elections in Florida'00, too?
2003/4/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:28007 Activity:insanely high
4/5     What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the
        homeless, whether the mad destruction is brought under the name
        of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?
                                    - Gandhi
        \_ Gandhi was a British subject, disgruntled because he could not
           become an officer, who slept with preteen girls in the
           nude, was fixated on his own feces, gave tacit approval
           of the wholesale slaughter of Muslims after independence,
           advised the Jews of the Holocaust to go quietly, and was a
           supporter of the caste system.
           \_ Interesting; could you cite a few sources?
           \_ So what? Look up ad hominem.
              \- i imagine this is a troll, but in case it leaves some of
                 with mistaken impressions:
                 1. he was a british subject as a consequence of birth.
                    g. washington was also a british subject.
                 2. "couldnt not become an officer" ... "yes, g. washington
                     also was disgruntled because he couldnt become archbishop
                     of canterbury"
                 3. girls and feces ... feces not quite right. something
                    possibly to the girl stuff. i dont think there was any
                    accusation of molestation. YMWT(see) the play "gandhi vs.
                    the mahatma".
                 4. muslim: the main reason i replied. that is 100% opposite
                    to the actual state of affiars.
                 5. jews: dunno the answer there
                 6. caste system: more complicated than that
                 People in india have much more complicated and diverse
                 reactions and mpression of Gandhi in india. I dont think
                 much of this particular quites but he has some others that
                 much of this particular quote but he has some others that
                 arent to be believed slavishly but worth thinking about.
        \_ You want a real answer?  The answer is that it doesn't matter to
           the dead, but for millions of others who didn't get dead it
           matters a lot.  It's a naive and childish but catchy little quote.
        \_ It matters to me, if I get a good paying job because the economy
           improves because market and consumer confience recovers because
           of a decisive military victory for whatever reason and because,
           in time, we will have virtually unlimited supply of fuel.
                    \_ In time we will have a virtually unlimited supply
                       of fuel, but not because of Iraq or the war. Rather
                       the source will be our own waste coverted to fuel
                       via a fast depolymerization process (see this month's
                       discover for more info).
           \_ moron... in time, we will only be running out of fossil fuel.
              \_ The world has 2000-4000 years worth of coal, much of which is
                 in the U.S. Probably a good 200 years of oil, also.
                 I'm not advocating relying on fossil fuels, which is
                 a bad idea for alot of reasons, but we're not running
                 out any time soon.
                 \_ on the contrary, estimates of oil reserves can vary widely.
                    there are those who think oil will run out by the 2050's.
                    I.e. well within your projected lifetime.
                 \_ 2000+ years coal and 200 years oil!?  Are you serious?  URL
                    for sources please?
                    \_ I got those numbers from a UN report, which is
                       available on the web, but I can't find it right now.
                       if you're patient, I'll post it tomorrow, when I can
                       ask the guy who showed it to me(I'll post it anyway.)
2003/4/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27944 Activity:high
4/1     Anyone have an english URL for Leslie Cheung today?
        \_ First result in Yahoo search: http://www.lesliecheung.com
        \_ http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2487595
           (4/2) Yesterday I didn't realize why someone was asking for this
           until I watched the news last night.  Sigh.
        \_ http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=2487595
           others found by searching on http://news.google.com
        \_ It's on <DEAD>sjmercury.com<DEAD>
           \_ And http://www.sfgate.com
2003/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27928 Activity:very high
3/31    Apparently, having the Americans behind you is ever worse than
        having the French behind you:

        "Combat is what I've been trained for. I can command my vehicle.
        I can keep it from being attacked. What I have not been trained
        to do is look over my shoulder to see whether an American is
        shooting at me."

        "There was a boy of about 12 years old. He was no more than 20
        metres (yards) away when the Yank opened up. There were all these
        civilians around."

        "After this I am quite pleased to be going home," one of the
         wounded, Lieutenant Alex MacEwen, told the paper.

        "'Blue-on-blue' has always been one of my biggest fears. It is
         something that my friends and family joked about. 'Don't worry
         about the Iraqis, it's the Americans you want to watch'. The
         proof is in the pudding really."

        (Times of London)
        \_ ...and the point is?  That combat is dangerous?  Than being on the
           front line with bombs falling, jets screaming over head, and
           incoming enemy fire is confusing?  I think that ought to have been
           well established by now.
           \_ I think the point is, while the U.S. has spent a lot of time
              on U.S.-on-U.S. friendly fire, this hasn't translated to
              reduced U.S.-on-UK incidents.
              \_ Hmm, yeah I see what you mean -- but I don't care for the
        \_ Am still searching for a semantic thread ...
                                    \_ You misspelled 'semitic'
        \_ Who's ever had the French behind him?
           \_ You must've missed the putative Patton's remark about
              the French posted here the other day.
           \_  The US, or the American Colonies as they were known then.
        \_ Just from reading the news, it indeed seemed that the British
           casualties are disproportionally high, specially friendly-fire
2003/3/31 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27923 Activity:high
3/31    An old Iraqi woman shouted at an American invader in Nasiyria,
        "Go home, you have desecrated our land."  She told him "Everybody
        will fight the invasion even our palm trees."
        Sources: reporter, Italian TV.
        What a stupid old hag!
        \_ you sure she wasn't yelling at the Italian reporter?
2003/3/28 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27895 Activity:high
3/28    "IF a coalition of French and Canadian forces invaded the
        United States with the intent to liberate Americans from
        the regime of George W. Bush, would you fight back?"
        -- Rob Morse in today's SF Chronicle
        \_ Hell no.  Why would I fight to save Bush?
           \_ You want Chretien or Chriac instead?
        \_ Which Guy-in-Chair did they give the war?
        \_ Hell yes.  The last thing this country or the world in general
           needs is the French running any more of it than they already do.
        \_ If this country was run by a nationalist socialist family run
           empire that holds power through death squads, torture and fear,
           then I'd welcome just about anyone.  If it was the French, I'd
           make sure it was a short stay but they'd be welcome to shed their
           own blood for the duration.
           \_ Hah!  No chance it would be the French.  They'd leave you
              to twist, not in the wind, but in the pain of the grip of
              a family of torturers.
2003/3/28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27891 Activity:insanely high
3/28    News of Foreign Sources:
        * Morale of US troops start to budge.  Troops start to avoid
          certain color  of candies as believed they bring bad luck
        * Some units of US troops' rations are reduced due to supply
        * 8 civilian death 33 injured in latest US bomb raid
        \_ Rather than posting from "Foreign Sources", how about you state
           where you got each bit of news, with a URL if it was from the
           web?  Anyone can make shit up and post it on the motd.  Also, I
           know anti-American propaganda and American defeatism isn't the
           only thing "Foreign Sources" are publishing yet I note that's the
           only thing you are posting.  Sources would increase credibility.
        \_ Keep this up. Some (but by no means all) of this I haven't
           heard about, particularly after Al-Jazeera got shut down.
           Even the Guardian has been curiously monotonous about its
           coverage. -- ulysses
        \_ they will bring the 70,000 sunni kurds from the north.
        \_ Those damn green M&Ms.  Gonna get laid? In this desert? Lying
           sacks of sugar.
                \_ That's funny.  The army here ride these 40 year old 3-gear
                   monsters that weigh a ton.  Says something about how well
                   they built them that they're still in use.  -John
        \_ Did they report about those 40,000 gorillas from Brazil that
           Hitler is training to storm the Maginot Line, or the Gulf War
        \_ I hope the military equipped the soldiers with Linux.
           \_ I think you're joking but all of that equipment will need
              some sort of rudimentary operating system. Most of it is
              probably Wind River stuff but just imagine an army powered
              by M$ equipment....wait some recent news is starting to make
              \_ "Windows: Famous for stranding billion-dollar battleships at
                 sea."  http://csua.org/u/bdc
           \_ They will all ride bike.
              \_ http://www.militarybikes.com/military.html
                 \_ That's funny.  The army here ride these 40 year old
                    3-gear monsters that weigh a ton.  Says something
                    about how well they built them that they're still
                    in use.  -John
                    \_ Maybe they just can't afford new ones?  Example, "It
                       says something about the T-55 that it's still in use".
                    \_ The paratroopers aren't as good as the old
                       American and British bikes (I used to have
                       a 35 yr old Raleigh) but they are still
                       better than what passes for a "rugged" mtb
                       these days.
        \_ Yes, keep posting.  We want to know.
2003/3/27 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27878 Activity:nil
3/26    How are the US and UK troops integrating with each other? Namely,
        are British troops allowed to take orders from American officers,
        or vice-versa?
        \- yes
          \_ sure about that? I can't imagine US would allow its force
             under British command
             \_ There are some US marines in some odd ball 'report to the
                Brits but can go above their heads to an American if they
                don't like the orders' situation.  And no, they don't like it.
2003/3/27 [Recreation/Celebrity, Computer/SW/Apps/Media, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27877 Activity:nil
3/26    I am outside the US right now.  Would you guys be interested in
        some other stuff I heard from non-US news media?
        \_ Sure, but what kind of motd poster asks before posting
            contriversial stuff?
           \_ a polite one?  (a polite motd poster??)
        \_ Uhm, sure whatever but it's not like we don't have browsers and
           aren't reading the same stuff you're going to post.  Us poor dumb
           provincials just don't know what's really going on and could use
           the help of European and Arab media to educatin' us!
        \_ Thanks.  BTW we can also get non-US news media on Channels 26 and
2003/3/26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27846 Activity:very high
3/25    The difference between France and the US:  The French "take"
        decisions, as in "they take it up the ass".  Americans "make"
        decisions, as in "we make the dull rusty knife jammed up the French
        \_ That's the stupidist thing I've ever heard.  That's the kind of
           joke you'd expect from a kid in Junior High.  Nice try, troll.
           \_ Junior High French covers the difference between "prendre
              une decision" and "faire une decision"?
        \_ Translated:
           Je suis un Americain stupide qui pense que le monde est simple
           et que les gens d'autres pays ne sont pas interessant penser
           environ. Tuez-moi, svp.
           \_ Yep, we Americans are a simple people.  But at least we don't
              roll over and we keep faith with our friends.
              \_ Like Saddam Hussein, to whom we gave approval to invade
                 \_ Uh, this is bullshit
                    \_ Okay, then, like the Iraqis who rose up against
                       Saddam after GW1 because we told them we'd support
                       them militarily?
              \_ "I would rather have a German division in front of me
                 than a French one behind me." - General George S. Patton
        \_ The french-germans-russians are responsible for every major conflict
           since Napoleon.  Together, they have killed tens of millions.  France
           was once a great nation, until all of soldiers and able bodied
           men were killed.  Eventually, the only men left to repopulate
           were the queers and effet expresso sippers of Paris who were
           afraid to fight.  We now see the result.  Much of europe
           is dying, both economically and demographically.
           They will go the way of South America.  There is a reason
           American ancestors left Europe.
           \_ Yes, we went east looking for better hunting grounds.  Then we
              crossed a large icebridge and went south.  Imagine our
              surprise when you bastards came over in your ships.
           \_ It should be French-Germans-Russians-Japanese.
        \_ France has usually been governed by prostitutes.
                - Mark Twain, Notebook #18, Feb.- Sept. 1879
           French are the connecting link between man & the monkey.
                - Mark Twain, Notebook #18, Feb.- Sept. 1879
        \_ The only time the French didn't fight well is during WWII.
           The French fought decently in WWI.  Uncle Ho did kick their
           arse at DBP, but he also kicked our arse, so that's a draw.
        \_ Wrong.. South Vietnam was free for 2 years until the North
           invaded and Democrats refused any foreign intervention.
2003/3/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27845 Activity:high
3/25    Now that european countries are boycotting American products, when
        are we going to start bombing them to protect our corporate profits??
        \_ I don't think this war is primarily about oil,
           but it certainly doesn't hurt.
        \_ This war in Iraq is not primarily about corporate profits or oil.
           \_ yeah, keep telling yourself that.  and why are france and russia
              so against the war?  billions of trade and loans.  we're all
              bastards on this bus.
              \_ I thought it was more about no preemptive wars when
                 inspections were keeping Saddam boxed in, and if he kicks
                 them out, then the U.S. could pass a resolution for force.
                 \_ If you thought that, you're a moron.  Inspections did
                    little until Bush raised the gun to Saddam's head.
                 \_ And I bet you still believe in Santa Claus too.
                    \_ I don't see what's wrong with saying "inspections were
                       keeping Saddam boxed in", "no preemptive wars", and
                       "if he kicks them out ... pass a resolution for force".
                       \_ What inspectors?  The ones there from 1998 to last
                          \_ The ones headed by Mr. Blix
        \_ As if Europe mattered , they can't even agree on a common language
           \_ sure they can; it's english.
              \_ You might want to check with the French about that.
                 \_ I work with several French scientists, all educated
                    at french schools through the phd level, and they
                    have always, even in france, written all their papers
                    and even their phd theses in english.  scientists
                    are perhaps more willing than most to adopt international
                    standards, but *all* european scientists with any
                    ineternational influence speak english.
                    \_ 1) "Several French scientists" is representative of,
                       well, several French scientists.  2) That they can
                       speak English does not necessarily imply that they
                       are willing to accept English as the de jure European
                       common language.
                       \_ 1) I know what I'm talking about, and 2) you don't.
2003/3/24 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27830 Activity:nil
3/24    This crazy world, from
        http://www.petting-zoo.net/~deadbeef/archive/5318.html :
     "You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a
     white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, France is accusing
     the US of arrogance, and Europe doesn't want to go to war."
2003/3/24 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27826 Activity:very high
        \_ The New York Post is a tabloid with about as much credability as
           as the weekly world news.  Please don't post NYP articles, it just
           makes you look like a moron.
           \_ oh, as opposed to freerepublic
           \_ is there a list of 'motd acceptable' news sources?  I should we
              should only allow NPR quotes and Salon.
        \_ This is a serious question. What makes you think that our attempts
           to create a democracy by force in Iraq will be any more successful
           than our attempts in Afghanistan, Panama, Haiti, etc?
                \_ We never attempted in Afghanistan, it seem to be going
                   as well as expected thus far.  It worked in Japan,
                   South Korea, Europe, Taiwan, Chile, and was working in Iran.
                   What is the alternative? I propose there are only two:
                   1) kill the Arabs ala colonial Europe or Rome.
                   2) make it more attractive economically to lay down arms
                   and live and prosper with a non-belligerent society.
                   \_ Taiwan?  South Korea?  Europe?  What the heck are you
                      talking about?
                        \_ history?
                           \_ History?  US invaded Taiwan to bring about
                              democracy while it is under dictator CKS?
                                \_ You do not build weak, nascent democracies
                                   to counterbalance the Soviets.  You align
                                   with stable dictatorships with capitalistic
                                   tendencies in order to transition to liberal
                                   styles of government.
                                   This was the essence of US Cold War policy,
                                   I'm actually expected to explain this?
                                   \_ Sure, but how is this relevant?  We are
                                      talking about the feasibility of a direct
                                      US invasion and regime change here.
                                      This is not analogous to any of the
                                      countries you mentioned except Japan and
                                      Germany.  Vietnam, for example, blew up
                                      in our face because while we were thinking
                                      of fighting against communists and the
                                      soviets, we miscalculated vietnamese
                                      \_ "except Japan and Germany" is the
                                         point.  thanks.
                                         \_ I would grant you that, but I
                                            would also point out that Japan
                                            and Germany were actually occupying
                                            nations they invaded when we decided
                                            to topple their regimes.  Perhaps
                                            there are better ways to change /
                                            mellow out the regime in Iraq under
                                            scenarios similar to what happened
                                            in places like Taiwan and South
                                            Korea, given that there is limited
                                            evidence that we would be successful
                                            in building a democracy in Iraq.
                                            How much effort and resources are
                                            we willing to devote to this
                                            enterprise, or would we just get
                                            another puppet dictator, someone
                                            like Ferdinand Marcos or the
                                            Saudi sheiks, who constantly steal
                                            from their people?
2003/3/22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27802 Activity:nil
3/21    http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110003234
        "Jacques Chirac says France will not authorize a U.N. resolution
        allowing the United States and Britain to administer postwar Iraq."
        \_ France also threatned to veto a resolution that authorized the use
           of force against Iraq.
        \_ "Authorize" a UN resolution?  How arrogant.
           \_ The U.S. has to come back showing respect to the UN after
              having defied it.
              \_ Too late. Another international institution ruined by Bush.
        \_ Let's return the Statue of Liberty. She's an ugly biotch anyways.
2003/3/17 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27727 Activity:nil 50%like:27711
3/17    Vive La France!
2003/3/17 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27719 Activity:high
3/16    the History Channel special about Saddam's French nuclear reactor
        getting distroyed by the Israeli air force is on tonight at 7pm.
        \_ ohh give me a break, *WE* provided Iraq with the atomic
           bomb's know-how right after War War 2.
           \_ "after WW2".  Uhm, yeah.  whatever.
        \_ And the USS Stark hit with two (French) exocet missiles launched
        \_ You mean the reactor provided by Chirac.
            \_ No, Miterrand.  This was the reactor in Osirak which they
               were about a week away from taking into operation.  -John
            \_ Yes. Curiously, the only person killed in the attack was
               a french scientist that was working late that sunday evening.
               \_ Huh.  I wasn't aware France *had* scientists.
                  \_ Are you really this ignorant, or are you just jumping on
                     the France-bashing bandwagon?
                     \_ let me guess.. when someone says "it's raining cats
                        and dogs", you're outside looking for falling animals.
                  \_ They do but they're on strike all the time in support of
                     the Parisian trash haulers and long haul truckers.
        \_ And the USS Stark hit with two (French) Exocet missiles launched
           from a (French) Mirage fighter.
        \_ Did you know that the reacter was named the Ochirac Reactor?
           \_ Did you know you need to re-read your source?
                \_ It was a joke. I know it was named oshirak.
2003/3/16 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27711 Activity:high 50%like:27727
3/15    Vive la France
        French connections
        \_ jewish drivel
2003/3/14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27693 Activity:very high
3/13    Why do something intelligent about a situation, when you can do
        something incredibly stupid? (CNN article behind url shortener)
        \_ no big deal.  it's just political posturing.  you'll see a lot of
           this from every party in this country and all others as you grow up.
        \_ dear god.
           \_ All these people wanting to change french fries to freedom
              fries and all this other non-sense.  I guess we need to
              change the name for croissant, because it's french.  This
              is stupid, counterproductive, and immature.
              \_ That's exactly how I would characterize the French.
                 Of course, I felt this way long before all this
                 blather about Iraq.
              \_ The most pathetic part of the whole thing is that the one
                 thing the French hate more than Americans is American food.
                 If we really want to annoy them, we should be naming MORE of
                 our food after the French, not less.
                 \_ French fries aren't American.
                    \_ I think that was the point.
                       \_ We didn't name "our" food after the French, which is
           \_ I dare you to Freedom Kiss your sweetheart.
        \_ So you view the French as victims?
           \_ Yes.  Yes I do.  I think the French would make splendid victims.
              When do we invade France?
              \- we should take france before we have to "take it back" --psb
        \_ I wonder how much it would cost to ship back the Statue of Liberty
           and when Congress will propose this.
           \_ It isn't the French Statue, it's already the Freedom Statue (by
              a similar name) so we cna keep it.  Same thing for Louisiana.
2003/3/11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27657 Activity:nil
3/11    Portugese lose it and declare their anti-European philosophy:
2003/3/4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27596 Activity:very high
3/4     Umberto Eco on the US, France, and Iraq:
        (from http://Haaretz.com)
        \_ I like that. "We should let evil assert itself fully
           before we do anything about it." Apparently nobody
           informed the UN that an ounce of prevention is worth
           a pound of cure.
           \_ you're an idiot.
              \_ I admire your intellectual prowess and quick wit!
                 You've completely won me over to your point of view
                 with a clever sense of the moment intertwined with
                 a rich philosophy of the state of mankind.
                 \_ How 'bout this.  The sentiment expressed above is
                    exactly what Mr. Eco is talking about.  And if you
                    weren't blinded (deafened?) by sabre rattling, you
                    might be able to see that.  A first-strike aggression
                    is not "an ounce of prevention."  --scotsman
                    \_ First strike is prevention. Waiting them to
                       strike is like waiting for Hilter to invade
                       Poland before taking him out.
                    \_ Just because Umberto Eco wrote it, it's true?
                       Besides, he was saying that it is prevention,
                       he was just saying that prevention is not
                       necessarily prudent. And his main point had
                       nothing to do with that anyways.  -mlee
                       \_ Mike, you're talking over yourself. (pronoun trouble)
                          What comments are you disputing? --scotsman
                          \_ The first line was a rhetorical question so "it"
                             clearly refers to anything that Eco may write.
                             The "it" in the second line refers to
                             first-strike aggression.  Eco was writing more to
                             the effect of how improper emotional responses
                             can be--especially in these times--regardless of
                             whether they are emotional pro-war or anti-war
                             sentiments, much like the sentiment you wrote
                             in response to the op.  -mlee
                             \_ I was actually referring to the plethora of
                                "he"'s, but I see what you're getting at.
                                Mine was less of an emotional response than
                                the "op"'s [sic].  His is a fear based response.
                                I believe calling for measured response based
                                on a multilateral platform is far less
                                emotional than saying "bomb them before they
                                bomb us" --scotsman
                                \_ True.  op was emotional.  But we should
                                   bomb them--so that our bombs don't rust.
        \_ why isn't this 'intellectual' protesting the invasion of Ivory
           Coast by France?
           Coast by France?  And he states 'as the Western democracies
           eventually managed to eliminate the Soviet dictatorship
           without launching atomic weapons.'  Sorry Eco, you are
           wrong- it was overwhelmingly the UNITED STATES, with the
           help of Koreans, Vietnamese, etc.  that defeated the Soviets.
           The US taxpayer payed for it and the US soldier died for it.
           France tried to play the Soviets against the US, all the
           while secure under the US nuclear umbrella.  All of Europe
           treaded towards massive socialist behemoths, all subsidized
           by Uncle Sam.  Exactly how are France and Germany able to conduct
           billions of dollars of business in Iraq with 17 UN sanctions
           in place.  Sorry, this article is trash.
           \_ You should learn history before spouting. Korea? Vietnam?
              Chinese supplied. They're still around. How many left-wing
              terrorists were there in the US during the Cold War? Europe
              took the brunt of that. And the US has companies that have
              bypassed the sanctions too. See Dick Cheney? He partnered up
              with Haliburton and helped Iraq out. There are 6000 pages of
              the report given by Iraq about who supplied them with their
              suspected WoMD. US, France, Germany, Britain, and Russia have
              had the UN censor them out so the companies listed aren't
              exposed. Viva Capitalism! Viva Free Market!
                \_ Umm yea, a country who finished one civil war,
                   and in which 10-20 million died in the Cultural Revolution,
                   provided the material support for the Cold War - please.
                   My point was both the Koreans and the Vietnamese suffered
                   large casualties.  The same can not be said of any European
                   country.  France turned tail and ran after Bien Dien Phu.
                   I did not deny US businesses have operated in Iraq - however
                   this activity is not a full-scale blatant ignoring
                   UN sanctions as is for Germany and France.
                   this activity is not a full-scale, government sanctioned
                   flagrant disregard for the UN sanctions in place,
                   as is for Germany and France.
                   The point is thugs need to be removed once they exhaust
                   their usefulness.  Also, I'd be very interested in
                   what 'brunt' Europe endured - it would be very
                   \_ So it was the Soviets that fought in Korea and Vietnam?
                      And those 30+ million who died in the Soviet Union during
                      WWII made them helpless? And if the US didn't give the
                      okay to ship stuff from US to Iraq who did? During the
                      Cold War, Europe endured ongoing assasinations, terrorist
                      bombings and actual invasion threats by the USSR.
           \_ Regardless of who footed the bill, "the Western Democracies
              eventually managed to eliminate the Soviet dictatorship
              without launching atomic weapons."  His argument stands.
                \_ I find your cavalier attitude about 100,000 + dead
                   US troops and several trillion US taxpayer dollars
2003/3/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27584 Activity:nil
3/2     From the Congressional Record:
        Liberation of France in Violation of Covenant of League of Nations
        \_ ohh give me a break.  League of Nations was dissolved after
           American's ally, Japanese Empire, invaded Northeastern region
           of the old Chinese Republic.  France didn't fell into German's
           hand until 4-5 years after that.
2003/2/28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27559 Activity:high
2/27    Editorial defending Washinton Post's pro-war stance:
        \_ The huge problem with this editorial is "[Saddam] unquestionably
           possessing and pursuing biological and chemical weapons".  It's
           still a question.  If a group of smart people can't get this
           right, what can you say?
           \_ What smart people?  The French?  Or the Germans who sold them
              all of it between '91 and now?
              \_ The Washington Post editorial staff, of course.
                 If you can do a good job convincing people of your assertions
                 please contact Colin Powell.
           \_ hmm... theory of evolution...
2003/2/26 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27529 Activity:nil
2/25    At a party attended by Congressman Tom Delay to a French diplomat,
        after discussing Iraq:
        Delay: "Do you speak German?"
        Diplomat: "No"
        Delay: "You're welcome"
        Delay walks away.
        \_ Boy, that'll show em! Those Frog Eaters!!! How dare they
           disagree with us about anything after all we did for them
           55 years ago!
           \_ Not to mention trying to draw a parellel between Iraq and
              Nazi germany is just plain silly.
2003/2/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27478 Activity:nil
2/20    Do BNO passport holders need a visa to visit Japan for short-term?  The
        web site only says British passport holders are exempted.  I tried
        called the Consulate but it's closed.  Thanks.  (Yeah I can wait till
        \_ yes.
        \_ BNO officially means second class.  It is all insult no benefit.
        \_ Just curious, what is "BNO"?
           \_ British National Overseas
              \_ Thanks.
        \_ I called the consulate: (415) 777-3533.  The answer is yes.
2003/2/15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27421 Activity:nil
2/14    http://www.cnn.com/2001/CAREER/trends/08/30/ilo.study
        American's work longer hours to make up for being less
        productive per hour.
2003/2/14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27417 Activity:nil
2/13    The Boomerang Effect
        Spot on commentary except that about Kosovo.
2003/2/14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27414 Activity:insanely high
2/13    The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War With Iraq:
        A Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth
        \_ We Should  Go to War With France for Fucking up Capitalization
           in the English Language After 1066.
        \_ interesting. this whole war thing stinks of Henry Kissinger.
        \_ his writing style gives him away as an alarmist. take this with
        several grains of salt.
        \_ Interesting article.  Not long ago, the WSJ has an article
           saying that the US dollars used to be propped up by both
           european and east asian buyers, but the european buyers had
           pretty much dried up, so the US dollars is now all propped
           up by asians.  They are the only ones left supporting the US
           budget deficit and trade deficit.  Once that stop, what will
           US government do?  Increase interest rate?  Nah.  Probably
           start printing money.  Need to keep the economy going even if
           it makes us poorer.
                \_ Except there is no substitute for the dollar.  European
                   countries are far worse off then the U.S. and Japan is
                   not large enough.  All other oil transactions are
                   denominated in dollars, so until that changes...
                   \_ Nah, many well respected economists, fund managers,
                      etc. are betting on Europe.  The fruits of economic
                      integration is yet to be realized and profited from.
                        \_ You have to be kidding me.  Both Germany's
                           and Frances pension liabilities exceed 110%
                           of their GDP, unemployment 15%+, they created
                           zero jobs during 90's.
                              their own citizens not foreigners so
                              it won't affect currency.  Bad 90s doesn't
                              mean bad 00s.  Remember 80s and 90s for
                              Japan and US.
                           \_ Pension liabilities will not by itself
                              affect currency.  We are in 00s not 90s.
                              Remember 80s and 90s and Japan and US.
                              Rewards of EU integration are just waiting
                              to be reaped.  Eastern Europe is up and
                              coming.  Euro has already appreciated
                              quite a bit.  I am gonna buy some european
                              or far east mutual funds, ones without
                              dollar hedging.
                                \_ So government debt has no effect on
                                   exchange rates... in your dreams.  Its not
                                   even worth debating if
                                   you believe this.
                                   \_ If the financing is within the euro
                                      area, then it won't.  Foreigners don't
                                      own massive amounts of the euro.  They do
                                      own massive amounts of the dollar.  About
                                      1 trillion in east asia alone.  And that's
                                      just forex owned by the asian governments.
                           \_ 15%??? Where did you get this figure. The
                              real statistic is more like half that.
                              Remember that the US figure is kept
                              artificially low by the 2M in prison
                              and out of the labor pool. If you add
                              them back in, the rates are about the
                              same. US social security has the same
                              underfunded problems as European pensions.
                              Europe doesn't need to create jobs, since
                              their employment pools are not growing.
                              Europe has been focusing on productivity
                              growth, and it is paying off. German workers
                              are the most productive on the planet.
                              The US is in trouble with its huge
                              imbalance of trade and growing deficits.
                              The dollar is going to deflate much more
                              before long.
2003/2/13 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27392 Activity:nil
2/12    "As Berman reported, Mr. Fischer (German Foreign Minister),
        you rose in public life as an important
        figure in the anti-American, anti-liberal, neo-Marxist,
        revolution-minded German radical left of the generation of 1968."
2003/2/6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27323 Activity:very high
2/6     Yesterday at the UN:
        UN French Ambassador:  "this whole issue could be solved if
        Iraq would pass a law banning the production of WMD."
        \_ HAHHAAHHAHA!  I haven't had such a good laugh in a while.
        \_ No worse than the US's "let us invade and we'll show you the WMD
           after we find them. Really."
                \_ France has already acknowledged Iraq has WMD.
        \_ the u.s., uk, russia, china, france all believe iraq is hiding
           their wmd.  russia, china, france think, for good reason, that a
           u.s. attack now would be destabilizing.  the argument has been
           and will always be, 'why look like the world is submitting to
           u.s. hegemony?  saddam can't do anything while inspectors are
           there.  the longer the inspectors are there, the better chance
           they'll find something damning, which can be leveraged.'
           \_ They are hoping for a reach around.
           \_ Nonsense.  While the inspectors waste time, he's doing shit
              in other parts of his very large country.  And then what are
              you going to say when he kicks out the inspectors and announces
              he has a nuke in 6-9 months?  More inspections?  Sanctions?
              Or just welcome him to the nuclear club as the nice guy that he
              is?  Join this world, please.
              \_ france is asking for more inspectors
              \_ Then Iraq joins like Pakistan, India, Israel, and South Korea
                 did. So what? Saddam is a meglomaniac, not suicidal. Power
                 is his kick. And the 6-9 month guess is crap.
        \_ Everytime the inspectors get close to something, Iraqis with
           guns tell them: "You can't go there." They had to get led to
           the empty warheads by their nose, otherwise they wouldn't
           have found those either.
           \_ I think you should check your facts about this ...
        \_ France and Russia have oil deals with Saddam, if the sanctions
           are ever lifted. They want Saddam to behave and stay in power.
           Unfortunately neither of those will happen.
        \_ And don't forget how much business France and Germany have there
           in non-oil deals and how much WMD related shit the Germans have
           been illegally selling them since '91.  All that is going to come
           out and make the Germans look exceptionally bad after Saddam's
           Iraq is crushed.
2003/1/30 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27244 Activity:very high
1/30    "Canada 'Inspectors' to Hunt for Deadly U.S. Weapons"
        http://csua.org/u/8a5 (news.yahoo.com)
        The Canadians don't realize they're also under our blanket of
        \_ The 51st State needs a reminder here and there.  So does Germany,
           France, and the rest of Europe that forgets they owe their very
           existence to the US.
           \_ Doing one good deed is not an excuse to commit a crime.
              Likewise, you could say that Bush owes his presidency to
              those that voted for him into office and he should honor
              their wishes. Of course, if the Supreme Court's wishes are
              to go to war, then he's certainly doing that.
              \_ Oh jesus f. christ.  get over it already.  your own leftist
                 media went over the whole thing for months and came up with
                 zippo.  you're on the edge of rationality.
           \_ Why do France, Germany and the rest of Europe owe their
              very existence to the US?
                \_ Without US intervention in WW2, Europe would now
                   be called Germany. Large parts of Africa and the
                   Middle East would be German as well. Asia would
                   be part of the Japanese Empire.
                      \_ Uhm yeah.  Try a history book, son.  Whatever.
                   \_ that is total bullshit. only part of poland and maybe
                      part of czech republic.
                        \_ Do you really think that the French would have
                           liberated themselves? How do you think that the
                           UK survived the Battle of Britian? HINT: it was
                           US naval support in the North Atlantic and US
                           crypt-analysts working in the UK. In North Africa
                           it was US troops that assisted Montgomery. In
                           the Pacific, it was MacArthur and Nimitz that
                           stopped the Japanese advance.
                           \_ What do you think Germany would have done with
                              its European conquests? As it was, it merely
                              set up a puppet state.
                                \_ Given time Germany would really have
                                   messed things up.
                                \_ So you think the German controlled puppet
                                   France was a real country?  And after 60+
                                   more years there'd be anything left of the
                                   old France?  They'd ever free themselves?
                                   Madness.  It took *millions* of dead
                                   soldiers from the US, Britain, and Russia
                                   (more Russian dead by far, gotta give credit
                                   where it's due) to conquer Germany.  You're
                                   insane or stupid or ignorant if you think
                                   any of the Conquered nations would ever see
                                   freedom again in 50 lifetimes.
                           \_ Okay, truth time. UK survived because of US
                              material support (merchant ships, not Navy), the
                              UK broke Enigma (cypto), the US got it's ass
                              kicked in Africa (it was nearly done by the time
                              the US showed up). And Japan was fighting the US
                              in the Pacific, not Austrailia. But the Aussies,
                              Indians, and Chinese kept Japan from shifting
                              full efforts vs. the US.
                   \_ Nah, the cold war would have been between the US
                      and Germany, instead of the US vs USSR.
                   \_ You're right on Asia, but military historians
                      credit the Soviets with preventing the German
                      takeover of Europe, not us. E.g.,(search for "Russians"):
                      \_ but the Soviets took over Europe themselves, from
                         east germany onwards.
                      \_ Hitler would have beaten Stalin if not for the
                         two other fronts opened by the US.
                         \_ Oh yeah.  D-day was totally a turning point for
                            the Russians.  Seeing as how it happened in 1944,
                            AFTER Stalingrad and Kursk.  Yeah.  Go Yankies go!
                                \_ The western front involves more than
                                   D-day. The battles of the north atlantic
                                   were far more critical.
                                   \_ Uh, no they weren't.  How did the few
                                      U-boats the blundering anti-submarine
                                      program managed to sink before 1944
                                      really help the russians?  The north
                                      atlantic battle was won, to be sure,
                                      but too late to make a difference.
                                      Only trucks and spam really helped
                                      the russians, they did all the actual
                                      work themselves.
                      \_ Look at it this way, without US involvement in WW2,
                         who would have opened the Western and Southern
                         fronts? Neither France nor the UK had sufficient
                         resources. Even if they did, how would they have
                         kept up their industrial production to sustain a
                         prolonged conflict? Without the US Europe would
                         have been lost.
                         \_ Let's remember that France fell in an eye blink
                            very early.  There was *no* France for most of WW2.
                                \_ Only part of France fell, some of it was
                                   still free from German occupation, but
                                   you are right.
                \_ The reason the US intervened in Europe was that Germany
                   declared war and allied with Japan. It is doubtful the US
                   public would have gone to war vs. Hitler if not for that.
                   \_ Fortunately, the US public doesn't declare wars.
2003/1/18 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27144 Activity:high
1/17    How hard is it to have sex in an airplane lavatory without
        getting caught?  What do they do if they catch you?
        \_ Why do you ask?
        \_ Any law against that?  Why would they try to catch you?
           \_ well, that's what I was wondering.  so i asked the motd.
              \- legal unless you disable the smoke detector
                 although that might be ok on air france --psb
                 \_ The *French* (snicker)
                \_ "do you smoke after sex?"
                   "I'm not sure, I never checked"
2003/1/15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Media] UID:27102 Activity:high
1/15    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/2661409.stm
        \_ Harry potter drivel.
2003/1/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:27093 Activity:insanely high
1/14    Related question to the French question below.  Why do Americans
        continuously kiss up to the french?  French fashion, french food,
        are always "in".  And paris is like the #1 tourist city in Europe
        for americans.  Even the language.  Americans who speak french think
        they're superior than americans who speak spanish.
                         \_ You are a barely literate moron. --aaron
                \_ Marquis de Lafayette. Also most people who speak
                   french also know how to READ french and perhaps
                   have read the works of men like Dumas, Moliere,
                       hack, about the level of  _/
                       sydney sheldon.  (ref.
                       star trek)
                   Voltaire, Hugo, Rousseau, Decartes etc.
                    \_ btw proust is likely the greatest argument
                       for being able to read french.  not to
                       mention baudelaire, apollinaire, etc.
                   As far as french fashion is concerned, have you
                   ever been to a Hermes shop?
                   \_ so your claim is that the spanish literature tradition
                      is inferior to the french one?  by extension, if there
                      is a perception that people who speak language x is
                      less cultured than those who speak french, then the
                      french must also have a superior literary and cultural
                      tradition than speakers of language x?  fools rush
                      in where angels fear to tread indeed.
                      \_French was the language of science during the Age
                        of Reason.  It's had one of the greatest affects
                        on the English language because of that, and the
                        fact that after the Norman conquest French was the
                        language of nobility in England for quite a while.
                        Although Spain and Latin America have a huge,
                        brilliant tradition, some of the major building
                        blocks of western philosophy have come out of France.
                        Does that mean that France is the best?  Maybe not.
                        Does that mean you should shut the fuck up?  Yes.
                        \_ hey, will you be calling me a nazi and comparing
                           me to hitler soon?
                        \_ so your argument now is that french is
                           politically and philosophically superior?
                           and this argument is better than the french
                           cultural and literary superiority argument how?
                           (remember, you included dumas, moliere, and
                           hugo on your list, so you were hardly arguing
                           philosophy or politics.  but i'll ignore that
                           thorny issue.)
        \_ I'm superior to you because I can speak English. --aaron
        \_ Same reason there's Japanophiles and other Whatever-ophiles.  It is
           just different than what they know and therefore must be better in
           the "grass is always greener" kind of way.  I was highly unimpressed
           by Paris when I was there.  Italy was very cool however.  Paris
           was just like NY or any other large American city except they don't
           speak English and they don't shower.  Most American cities are
        \_ How about french women?  Any comments on french women?  Are the
           stories of menage a trois true?  Or just more american men kissing
           up to french women and making up fantasies.
           \- they dress better and carry themselves differently but that is
              true in nyc as well.
           \_ Stories of threesome?  What are those?
              \_ As if huge numbers of people aren't do 3somes here.
           \_ They smoke a lot, if you like chicks that smell like ash trays
              try french chicks.
                 \_ dude, there's dog shit everywhere.  literally.  most
                    of my parisian coworkers thought it was disgusting too.
                    i repeat.  what dope are you smoking?
                    \_ I was there in May, perhaps it is cleaner then.
                       There was a lot more dogshit on the street in
                       Amsterdam. I didn't even notice it in Paris.
                       I have heard from locals that you are safe
                       if you stay on the main streets.
        \_ Have you ever been to Paris? It is, no joke, the most
           beautiful and nicest city in the world. I have not been
           to all of them yet, but I have been to many.
           \_ nicest?  can i have some of what you're smoking?  parisians
              are rude and annoying, probably even in comparison to residents
              of other cities of comparable size.  residents of large cities
              in latin countries are probably the nicest.  dubliners or
              londoners are probably the nicest in europe.  fyi, i've lived
              in paris for about 4 months, so i do speak from some experience.
              and, yes, i even speak french, so don't pull the "oh they're
              nice if you tried to speak french".
              \_ I don't mean nice in that way. I mean the streets are clean,
                 the transit system works well, food is good and there is
                 \_ This is like saying "seattle is beautiful when it's sunny"
                    You must have missed the nigh-continuous transit strikes.
                 plenty to do and see. I even found the people to be
                 reasonably pleasant. I went to Paris expecting to not
                 like it, but I ended up being charmed.
                       \_ i will give you credit for the food though; it's
                          certainly well past acceptable, and i don't mean
                          just the grand vefours/tour l'argent axis.
                          regular grub at normal restaurants are of a pretty
                          high standard, and i've been having a yearn for a
                          good frisee aux lardons.  as for the dog shit, if
                          you stayed in the touristy areas it's not too bad,
                          but you should see what they're like before the
                          cleaning crew got to them before ~8am.
        \_ i have bad impression of paris.  dog feces on the street, rude
           drivers, and being cheated on subway station. :(
           \_ All dogs should be banned from public places. If you want a dog
              go and live in the woods with it.
           \- i thought most of the people in paris were quite nice ...
              and my french is really lousy. maybe some of you people
              are just barbarians? physically and historically there is
              something really cool about a city with such a long history
              and depth [nyc has some of this is in the usa]. while i am
              glad i dont work in retail, there is something pleasing about
              retail-heavy cultures ... e.g. the small shops every where,
                    If you don't think nob hill is charming, you are a clod.
                    The weather is great, too. If you like LA so much,
                    you should move there. Most people who live in LA
                    hate it.
              a street culture. not filled with bitter cockroaches likes
              telegraph ave. and there is something just amazing about
              tuning a corner at dusk and seeing the notre dame ...
              i still remember that jaw dropping "holy shit" moment. --psb
              \_ yeah we all know you're a bloody francophile.  too much
                 exposure to cabanne (sp?) at a young age.
                 \- as i country i think the french need a beating. --psb
              \- so what is so great about SF other than restaurants?
                 yes the sunset over mt. tam is nice ... but people dont
                 get credit for that. the newspapers is for illiterates by
                 illiterates. "even la" has better museums. etc etc etc
                 SF has one of the biggest reputation gaps. --psb
                 \_ SF has the GGB.  That's about it, I think.
                 \_ SF has a lot of beauty, most of it physical beauty:
                    Every neighborhood has a hill with a great view.
                    If you don't think nob hill is charming, you are a
                    clod. The weather is great, too.
                    \- well i acknowledged SF has reasonable physical beauty.
                       but la has some nice areas too. i'm talking about the
                       kinds of things people can claim credit for. --psb
                       \_ Preserving your city's history is something people
                          can claim credit for. Ever been to Las Vegas?
                          Almost nothing there is more than 20 years old.
                          If you took away all of the strippers and lights,
                   much of the new world worth visiting.  ok, except vegas.
                          there's not much left.
                          \_ liberace museum.  hoover damn.  valley of fire.
                             gambler's book store.  lake mead.
                             \_ The crestfallen looks of those who have lost
                                their life savings...
                       \_ SF has Berkeley, one of the most fascinating
                          places in the world.
                          \_ hahaHAHHAHHhaHAHHAhhah
                          \_ If you're a crack whore.
                       \_ Weather, restaurants, physical beauty, historical
                          presence, metropolitan, shopping, multicultural,
                          liberal attitude (appeals more to tourists), past
                          reputation, and it can showcase it's high points
                          very well. SF looks good from a distance.
                \_ Can't you ask this of pretty much any (north?) american
                   city except new york?  if you discount restaurants,
                   amusement parks and non-world-class museums, there's not
                   many cities in the new world worth visiting.  ok, except
                   \_ Boston? Chicago?
                      \_ so?  unless you have people there, they're both
                         not more than a 1 to 2 day sort of destination.
        \_ As for French vs. Spanish, I guess Americans don't associate Spanish
           with Spain, but rather Latin America.  When you hear someone with
           a French accent, you think "Wow!  He's (Western) European."  But
           when you hear someone with a Spanish accent, you think "Gee, another
           border crosser."
           \_ If you're an asshole, maybe.
              \_ So when your maid and gardeners are speaking Spanish you
                 don't think, "Thank God I'm never running for office", you
                 think, "How fascinating!  We have so many Spaniards here
                 doing menial labor at below minimum wage!  The European
                 economy must be hurting to come all this way for these jobs!"
           Italian lingerie makes Victoria's Secret look like the crap that
                 \_ If you hear a Spanish accent and think it's a Mexican
                    accent, you're not just an asshole.  You're a fucking
                    \_ There's a distinction between Spanish accent and Mexican
                       accent?  I have a Chinese friend who was born and grew
                       up in Spain, whose first language is Spanish and second
                       language English,  The accent in his English sounds just
                       like those Mexicans here.
                 \_ When I hear you trying to talk to your maid in really loud
                    simple English, I think "what a fucking worthless moron
                    who has never worked a day of real work in his life."
                \_ there is a difference actually.  Spanish spoken by
                   Europeans sounds differently than Spanish spoken
                   by central americans, supposedly because a king of
                   Spain had a slight lisp and mandated the lisp become
                   part of the pronounciation of the Spanish language,
                   it's also what is taught in American schools, I don't
                   know how true the story of the Spanish king is.
                \_ ok i just googled for "lisp" and "spanish" and
                   "monarch" and found a linguistics paper discounting
                   the mysterious lisping spanish monarch theory, but
                   a better explanation is that the version of Spanish
                   inflicted on Central America by raping conquistadores
                   has diverged slightly from the Spanish spoken by
                   non raped villagers in Spain.
                   \_ You linguistic neophytes.
        \_ It's all because we've feeding our kids with French Fries all these
           years!  :-)
        \_ Paris is one of the best cities in the world. The food and wine
           are fantastic. The architecture is amazing. There is so much to
           see and do and so much history. Overall, I think France is a
           rather dirty country compared to the rest of Europe. The people
           are not my favorite either. There's a lot to dislike about
           France and the French. However, when it comes to food, wine,
           fashion and the other things France does well it's pretty clear
           why everyone "kisses up" to them for those. As for the women, it
           comes down to their clothes, especially lingerie. French and
           Italian lingerie make Victoria's Secret look like the crap that
           it is. --dim
        \_ Let's conquer Paris and make it into the 58th state of the USAE.
           Then we can claim that we have a nice city too!
           \_ Just re-elect Bush!
              \_ The third entry in today's IDIOT CLUB!  Congratulations!
2003/1/5-6 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:26997 Activity:very high
1/5     Good analysis of America, its empire, and the role it should play
        in the middle east:
        \_ Fuck the NYSlimes - the article couches arguments in the
           context of a republic but the whole paper is full of nothing
           but leftist statists.  The Slime's politics are anithetical
           to a Republic.
           Take this pithy quote for example - '...America backed stability
           over democracy, propping up the autocratic rule of the shah,
           only to reap the whirlwind of an Islamic fundamentalist
           revolution in 1979...".
           Well no fucking shit, this was the U.S. paradigm of foreign
           policy throughout the cold war to contain Soviet influence.
           You can't build a democracy in civilizations a 1000 years behind
           the West.  But wait a minute, wasn't it the left's
           Messiah Jimmy Carter who reversed U.S. support of the Shah only
           to embolden Khomeini.  This was militant Islam's first success,
           a success that ignited the situation we face today
           - all thanks to the fucking moron Jimmy 'moral foreign policy'
           Carter.  The man who brought us Stansfield Turner and ethics
           to the CIA.  So much for 'Good analysis' eh?
           \- hello, you may wish to read the "Living with a superpower"
              article in the "Mr. Kim" issue of the E'ist. International
              Security is very good on for more technical discussions,
              although you may unknowingly miss some things because the
              authors take some shortcuts because they assume some
              familiarity with IR literature. e.g. take a look at:
              [IS is better than FA, FP, WP etc.]
              n.b. JSTOR may give you better access. --psb
              \- oh this article may also make you feel better:
                 i dont agree with all of it but it is more interesting
                 that the article by that communist from the TLS the asp
                 walled about. --psb
                 that the article by that communist from the TLS or LRB
                 the asp walled about. --psb
                 \_ Kagan's article is very long and extremely boring, to
                    the point that his points become irrelevant.  BTW,
                              \- the kagan article is a little repetitive
                                 but he raises an interesting "large issue"
                    and the reset of the world (where American power
                                 while the only interesting thing in the
                                 article the asp mentions is the democrats'
                                 "manhattan problem". i am unable to
                                 respond at greater length to these comments
                                 via wall. by the way, if you want to acquire
                                 some culture, if you havent read it, read
                                 the Melian Dialog at the end of BookV
                    should it pursue for the rest of the world?
                                 in the History of the Peloponnesian War.
                                 it's a fantastic read. (i'm not suggesting
                                 it's immediate relevance, but this is a
                                 good thing to have in your pocket) --psb
                    communist or not, that article from LRB was at least
                    entertaining and the view could represent any
                    "conservative realist" of another country.  To people
                    who know what that word means, Bush and his troops
                    sound very much like the Bolsheviks.
                    \_ Hi.  I know what the word 'Bolshevik' means.  You
                       do not.  You are likely the same moron who was
                       comparing US under Bush to USSR.  You have no sense
                       of scale.  Go kill yourself now before you get smacked
                       again like last time.
                 \_ There is no disagreement between Kagan's article
                    and the NYT article.  They deal with different realms
                    of the world, Kantian vs Hobbesian, Europe (where
                    American power is needed only for external threats)
                    and the rest of the world (where American power
                    is needed to impose internal order).  The NYT article
                    deals with what US should do in the rest of the world.
                    Should US act entirely out of its self-interest or
                    should there be a 'moral foreign policy'?  If it is
                    entirely for self-interest, how is it different in
                    essence from the Europen empires of the 19th century
                    and earlier?  It could not be, so what other options
                    should it pursue for the rest of the world?  When
                    Kagan argued that "Americans ought to be the first to
                    understand that a threat to one's beliefs can be as
                    frightening as a threat to one's physical security",
                    he is referring to post-WWII Europe's belief in
                    solving problems between nations through international
                    laws, negotiations, diplomacy and forging of economic
                    ties which is the essence of the European Union,
                    which many Europeans feel is being threatened by
                    America's unilateralism.  The same, however, can also
                    be said of the third world's experience of throwing off
                    colonialism to attain self-determination and self-rule,
                    after significant hardship and sacrifice.  For many
                    people these beliefs are similarly threatened by
                    American unilateralism, which is why many nations
                    outside of Europe also feel uneasy about US's
                    unilateral exercise of power.
2002/12/12-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:26797 Activity:nil
12/11   http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=1511364
        Whacky Germans at it again!
        \_ the word is "wacky". now, don't you feel like an imbecile?
           \_ If you read the article you'd get it.  Since you didn't, it's
              your loss for missing it.  So, uhm, no.  I don't  Do you?
2002/11/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:26482 Activity:very high
11/7    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/021108/80/de8zy.html
        Bush has learned well from Sharon. If there is anyone you don't
        like, don't bother with arrest, don't bother with a trial,
        just execute 'em from the air. A US citizen murdered, too.
        \_ Not murder. Proactive attack against terrorist elements.
           \_ Not murder.  Assassination.  Prohibited by Exec. Order,
              and therefore illegal.  Arrest the CIA.
              \_ It isn't assassination unless you figure that every random
                 fuck towel head with a bomb is a foreign leader.
                 \_ http://dictionary.com says:
                    assassination: a killing by treacherous violence.
                    http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/eo12333.html#2.11 says:
                    2.11 Prohibition on Assassination. No person employed by
                         or acting on behalf of the United States Government
                         shall engage in, or conspire to engage in,
                    2.12 Indirect Participation. No agency of the Intelligence
                         Community shall participate in or request any person
                         to undertake activities forbidden by this Order.
                    Read carefully, tool: nowhere does it say "foreign leader."
                             \_ US abolished slavery at the cost of a civil
                                war.  Sweden sat on its ass like a coward
                                until someone else did the dirty work.  Being
                                humane entails knowing when to fight for what
                                you believe in.
           \_ Be thankful the US isn't lining the roads with crosses like
              the Romans.  They could, and I bet they would actually be
              successful in stopping attacks that way (as Romans were).
              \_ So has Genghis Khan.  Yes, I am thankful that the US is
                 not like Genghis Khan.
                 \_ Romans are too close to home, eh?  Had to come up with
                    a big bad asian example, right?  That the US occasionally
                    fires rockets at cars loaded with dynamite (which I
                    consider a good thing) does not change the fact that it
                    has produced the most humane society the world has ever
                    \_ Have you ever been to The Netherlands? Sweden? Canada?
                       \_ What was Sweden's stance on the Nazis again?
                          \_ What was USA's stance on slavery again?
                             Sweden merely maintained independence.
                             \_ The US got rid of slavery at the cost of a
                                civil war.  US citizens lost lives trying
                                to oust Hitler when it became obvious he
                                was a threat.  Sweden just sat on its
                                collective ass and waited for Nazis to take
                                over the world.  Being humane is knowing
                                when to fight for what you believe in.
                                \_ Why did they ignore Stalin then hm? You know,
                                   it's just silly to say Hitler would really
                                   be able to "take over the world". At most,
                                   possibly some of the eastern european
                                   nations that Stalin ended up ruling for the
                                   next 50 years anyway.
                                   \_ If there wasn't a Western Front the Nazis
                                      would have taken out the Russians and
                                      then Britain was next.  After that, the
                                      US would stand alone for freedom in the
                                      world against the Nazi controlled Euro/
                                      Asian continent (as well as the oil in
                                      the middle east and the more valuable
                                      parts of Africa).
                                      \_ A Russian friend of mine said Russia
                                         has always won wars that others
                                         launched against it, and has always
                                         lost wars that it launched against
                                         \_ Your russian friend is wrong.
                                            Russia lost the war against the
                                            Golden Horde. -- russian
                                         \_ Yes, we can take that historical
                                            fluke as divine providence that
                                            it is fated that no one can invade
                                            and conquer Russia.  Thanks.
                                \_ The Civil War was over state's rights, not
                                   over slavery.
                                   \_ Wow... welcome to Oversimplification Of
                                      History 101.
                             \_ Why did you erase my question?  US sat back
                                on the same haunches as Sweden while the nazis
                                were sweeping through europe.  We would have
                                let england be taken before we did anything
                                if it weren't for pearl harbor.  we had business
                                dealings with the nazis that couldn't be
                                \_ Uh oh.. *this* assertion definitely needs
                                   some URL backing.
                                   \_ major IBM contracts for Nazi Germany.
                                      \_ dont be a git.  we didn't avoid war
                                         with the Nazis for IBM's sake.  Duh.
                                \_ and what did sweden contribute to the
                                   \_ Those cool knives?  Oh no wait that was
                                      the swiss, the Nazi collaborators.
                    \_ That the Romans had a little civilization going does not
                       change the fact that cruxifixing people is barbaric.
                       Do not confuse "inspite of" and "because of".
                       \_ You know, you would pull off that lecturing tone
                          much better if you knew how to spell 'crucify.'
                          \_ You know, you need to brush up your grammar
                             a little.
                             \_ Um..  to what grammar are you referring?
                                \_ "would have pulled"
                       \------"still [christians] others were burned alive
                              as living torches to light Nero's garden at
                              his Golden House." ... that's a funny story
                              but untrue ... probably some exaggeration
                              of suetonius. why are you focusing on rome?
                              look at the decree on megara or the melian
                              dialog. that is more appropriate. well i
                              suppose you can look at the destruction of
                              corinth in 146 by L. Mummius:
                Cary \& Schullard describe the aftermath as follows:
                ``In other Greek towns they restored the rule of the
                wealthier  classes,  and   they  made  Corinth  safe
                against social revolution by razing it to the ground
                and  selling its  inhabitants into  slavery.''  This
                was the hard edge to the vaunted {\it Pax Romana\/}.
                        See also famous speech of calgacus in the Agricola:
                A  rich enemy  excites their  cupidity; a  poor one,
                their  lust  for power.  East  and  West alike  have
                failed to satisfy them.  They are the only people on
                earth to whose  covetousness both riches and poverty
                are  equally  tempting.  To  robbery,  butchery  and
                rapine,  they give the  lying name  of 'government';
                they create a desolation and call it peace.
        \_ You're confused.  You kill the enemy, you arrest criminals.  They
           were the enemy.  As far as one of them being a US citizen, I'm not
           shedding any tears since our insanely open borders make the concept
           of US citizenship almost entirely meaningless.
           \_ Especially when some politicians are trying to give residency
              to illegal immigrants in order to buy votes from certain ethnic
              \_ The Republicans are guilty of 'excusing' illegal aliens and
                 making them magically into citizens (1986) while the Democrats
                 prefer to not bother with the citizenship thing and just have
                 endless numbers of people come over so they can raise taxes
                 on the citizenry in order to 'solve' a social problem they
                 helped create.  Fuck them both.
                  \_ Reagan 's amnesty was a political compromise with the Dems.
                     He later stated it was the biggest mistake of his
                     Presidency.  Unfortunately, today there are many RINOs in
                     Congress beholden to business.
                     \_ Saying, "I'm sorry" afterwards is too fucking late.
2002/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:26402 Activity:very high 80%like:26397
11/4    http://www.fairvote.org
        End the 2 party system.
        \_ Yes it's a much better system. Now if I could see something
           indicating how to do it. Changes to the Constitution are
           ...difficult. San Francisco enacting the instant runoff system
           was a hopeful thing to see, though.
        \_ Fuck that noise.  The two party system has given us a stable and
           functional government for 200+ years.  What?  You want something
           like what Italy has?  Get stuffed.
           \_ They done brain-washed you real good.
              \_ Ad hominen is a waste of bits.  Go to Italy.  The last thing
                 this country needs is extremists in office that PR allows
                 to happen.  Government and voting is about getting a
                 functional stable government, not about letting every little
                 2 bit crack pot group that can garner 3% of the vote a say in
                 governing the 97% of the normal people.
                 \_ The cutoff wouldn't have to be 3%, and if it was, that
                    wouldn't affect you because 3% of congress can't force
                    the rest to do anything.
                    \_ You mean like how if some crackpot group had only 3
                       Senators right now that would be ok with you?  Nutty.
           \_ I want something like The Netherland, Belgium or Germany has.
              \_ I don't know about the first two but German government is in
                 the shitter.
        \_ Strangely enough, most reasonably stable democracies I can think
           of tend towards a two party system, both of which tend to gravitate
           very close towards each other, except in times of economic crisis
           (take Turkey), at which point they get replaced by...another two
           parties.  France, Germany, the UK, Russia, Italy, Spain, Israel...
           there's usually a rightist and a leftist party, with some smaller
           ones sniping from the sidelines.  The only difference being that
           the countries with parliamentary as opposed to three-branch systems
           of government tend to see coalitions with a whole bunch of smaller
           parties... -John
           \_ You are right, and the two parties "gravitate" as close together
              as possible.  Just like gas stations. -crebbs
           \_ Does parliamentary necessarily equal proportional representation
              by party?  i.e. by "parliamentary systems" do you mean those
              Where if a party gets 10% of the vote it gets 10% of the reps?
              And is that a common understanding of "parliamentary" versus
              US-style democracy??
              \_ no.
              \_ No.  Parliamentary in this case meaning a system lacking
                 separation between legislative and executive branch (i.e.
                 the prime minister is chosen by the legislative, with no
                 or only a weak president to balance it out--Germany, the UK,
                 and Israel are examples.  As for proportional representation,
                 I think most major democracies require at that at least an
                 initial hurdle in terms of vote percentage be cleared for
                 a person to obtain a seat.  Whether this is done on a per
                 candidate or per party basis differs.  -John
           \_ That's fine that there are two major parties, but that's a lot
              different than ONLY two parties. This country gets lowest-common
              denominator politics, whereas in for example Germany small parties
              like the Greens can and do get representatives in the gov't.
              Essentially there's 0.01% chance of another party getting any
              power, and this directly lends itself to corruption and
              special interest politics.
              \_ Many people see it as a good thing that an extremist minority
                 party like the Greens don't have any power in this country.
                 If you and enough others like the Greens so much they'll get
                 some power.  But they won't because they don't represent
                 enough nutcases to allow them to ruin anything for the rest
                 of the country.  I laughed my ass off when the German Green
                 party got into power.  It was the end of Germany's chances at
                    \_ Shhh! He hadn't figured that part out yet!
                 recovering and becoming a great nation anytime soon.
                 \_ It's not about extremist minorities you buffoon. Look at
                    California; with PR you would see more conservative
                    \_ I don't want to see more of any representation.  I want
                       to see a functional and stable government which is still
                       responsible to the people.  PR fails the first and part
                       of the second.  Idiotic response from clueless third
                       party purged from motd.
        \_ This is cool. Don't mathematicians study voting systems?
           Can anyone recommend a mathematics text on voting?
           \_ http://www.ctl.ua.edu/math103
           \_ Yeah, yeah, we all read slashdot.  Troll harder.
2002/10/30 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26358 Activity:nil
10/29   Break out your wallet...
        'Haitians coming ashore in Key Biscayne, FL'
        By some estimates there are 13 million illegals in this country.
        \_ Freeper Guy - I thought something bad had happend to you.
           I love you, man!
2002/10/12-13 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26165 Activity:very high
10/12   You'd figure a pacifist country like this wouldn't be a target, but:
        \_ "According to a government spokesman Mikko Norros, a foreign
           terrorist organisation is not believed to have been
           responsible for the bomb - rather a deranged individual or
           an organised crime group. "
           personaly, I believe him.  they're finns.  what motivation
           do they have to lie?  as to pacifism, finland has mandatory
           military service for all men.  no cookie.
           \_ more like swiss "armed neutrality"
              \_ well, I think it's more just "hey, let's not get fucked over
                 by russia like all the other countries nearby"
           \_ *laugh* You're so naive.  Yeah, the first time in history that
              the mob has used a suicide bomber.  That makes a lot of sense.
              Duh, by definition anyone who blows themselves up in a mall is
              deranged so that's a meaningless statement as well.  It was your
              standard PLO/Hamas style suicide bombing in a public shopping
              center.  Just like the French trying to claim the tanker wasn't
              an act of terror, also.  A five year old could see this govn't
              spokesman's statement is ridiculous.  They haven't even collected
              all the body parts and he's already claiming it wasn't an act of
              middle-east style terror.  Nonsense.
              \_ The person jumping to conclusion is the person who said:
                 "You'd figure a pacifist country like this wouldn't be a
                  target, but ..."
                 \_ This is a silly response.  The motd isn't a public forum
                    and I doubt the OP is an official government spokesman
                    feeding propoganda to the public.  You're ducking the
                    issue.  I stand by what I said before: they haven't even
                    collected the body parts and know almost nothing about
                    what happened when this mouthpiece puts out official word
                    that it wasn't an act of middle eastern style terrorism,
                    but was instead some garbage about the world's first
                    suicidal mafia hit (on a mini mall, no less).  For now,
                    I'm willing to grant them benefit of the doubt on not
                    releasing identifying details about the bomber beyond his
                    age and gender, but they don't get that benefit forever.
                    \_ i'll keep being naive and you keep being paranoid,
                       and we'll see who has a better life.
        \_ This is why we need a regime change in Iraq. Terrorist attacks will
           continue while Saddam is in power. -G.W. Bush
2002/10/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:26117 Activity:moderate
10/6    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2303363.stm
        Just because you're French and cut deals with terrorists on a daily
        basis doesn't mean they won't attack you too.
        \_ which deals are those?
           \_ You live on Earth, circa 2002AD, right?  The French have a looong
              history of cutting deals and _trying_ to placate terrorists.  It
              never works but they keep trying.
              \_ well, they're french.  what alternatives do that have?
                 it's cut deals or just surrender and let the terrorists
                 goose step down the champs elysees.
                 \_ hey that worked out well last time.
2002/9/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25960 Activity:very high
9/19    ""The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for
        'Entrepreneur'"-GW Bush"
        \_ But they have 1000 words for 'surrender'. --dim
        \_ And snow.  They have hundreds of words for "snow".
           \_ excellent delivery.
        \_ they eat very well... and have lots of vacations. I'd like to
           live there. except that they hate jews.
           \_ Don't forget they only work 30 hrs a week.
              \_ Only in weeks when the trash collector's union isn't on strike
                 again bringing the entire country to a smelly halt.
        \_ French seem pretty arrogant.  I once met a French who has a strong
           accent.  When I saw him reading out some French signs, I ask him if
           he's French, and he replied "Yes I am French.  I'm proud to be
           \_ Wow, that's a great story.
                 would I?  Actually he did swear (I think) in French when he
                 got stuck behind slow drivers or people crossing the street
           \_ Nice try troll boi, but no self respecting frenchman would
              say "Yes I am French. I'm proud to be French." No, a true
              frenchmen would say, "Oui, je suis francais, mon pauvre
              amie de l'etats unis."
              \_ But if he said that in French I wouldn't understand that,
                 would I?  I quoted that verbatim.  Actually he did swear (I
                 think) in long French sentences when he got stuck behind slow
                 drivers or people crossing the street slowly even though I was
                 the only passenger and I don't speak French.
                 \_ Tout le monde sait le francias, excepte des sauvages et
                    des hommes anglais.
        \_ The above responders are all dense.  The joke is that "entrepreneur"
           comes from French. Haha.
           \_ Wow.  humour runs shallow on the soda...
           \_ That'd make GW Bush on par with Quayle.
           \_ Wow, you figured that one out all on your own?  The rest of us
              already heard the joke and didn't think much of it the first
              time around so we ignored it and went on about more interesting
              things related to the smelly French.  Where have you been?
              \_ like banging yermom? talk about smelly.
        \_ Alas, Bush never said it: http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.htm
           \_ Good job.
2002/9/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25945 Activity:high
9/19    Any chance that a military coup happens here in the US?  Nobody seems
        to worry things like this.
        \_ Citizen army of volunteers. Also, notice that there hasn't been a
        military coup in England for well over 300 years.
        \_ The money in this coutry already has both the government and the
           armed forces at their beck and call, so there's no need for a
           military coup.
        \_ None.  That's why no one seems to worry about things like this.
           \_ What is being done here to prevent this altogether while other
              countries have to worry about such thing?  All I know is that
              the US military is not supposed to talk about politics, but not
              talking about it doesn't mean they can't quietly have a view.
                \_ basically, we prevent it by giving the military everything
                   they want.  -tom
                   \_ typical useless agenda driven reply.
                      \_ snide uninformed counter troll.
                         \_ None of those things.  Correct, precise, accurate.
                            \_ Random yermom double entendre.
                               \_ Double entry on yermom?  how...interesting.
                                  \_ DVDADO.
                                     \_ Dude.  Is that even possible?
              \_ Modern and civil countries do not have to worry about such a
                 thing.  Most of western europe, the US, Canada, and Australia
                 have no reason to fear a military coup.  Compare those to the
                 rest of the world such as Africa and Central America where
                 coups are a relatively common occurence.  Rule of law and
                 civilian control of the military as well as functional
                 electoral systems and a tradition of respect for civil
                 authority keeps modern nations safe from their own militaries.
        \_ Read the 2nd Amendment.
           \_ right.  you and your gun-nut friends are the "well regulated
              militia" the second amendment refers to.  i'm not a
              proponent of gun control for other reasons, but the idea
              that the US milinary is afraid of a bunch of citizens
              armed with legal weaponery is laughable.  the iraqi army
              is better armed than you and your local gun buddies, and
              we will soon see them get slaughtered--again.
              \_ Well regulated?  It's all about fiber, son.
           \_ I'm a big 2nd amendment supporter but that's not what keeps
              western nations safe from their own militaries.  You might note
              that the other western nations have very strict gun control laws
              compared to the US but no greater odds of a military coup.
        \_ What do you think happened in December of 2000?
           \_ What do you mean?  The election?
2002/9/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25897 Activity:nil
9/14    'You have to kill in the name of Allah until you are killed'
2002/8/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25538 Activity:moderate
8/10    what is the second most wired country in the world? a
        western european country, like France, or a tech-savvy
        one like Japan? or neither?
        \_ Korea and Finland are very high up there.  -John
        \_ Singapore, maybe?
        \_ i think in order:  US, Japan, Hong Kong.
           \_ I'd say, Japan, Hong Kong, US....
        \_ Wired?  Wired with what?  Phones, cable, dsl, what?  What does
           'most' mean?  Most feet of cable, most people, largest percentage
           of population, what?
                \_ percentage of population, and wired for internet.
        \_ there are charts and maps with this info everywhere... google it.
           Wired Mag for ex, had something a while back.
2002/7/2-3 [Transportation/Airplane, Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25266 Activity:high
7/2     Anyone reading the Yahoo news on the plane crash in Germany?  How come
        tens of photos are about the wreckage of the Tupolev?  Where's the
        wreckage of the 757?
        \_ Maybe cuz the 757 is a cargo plane and there weren't any children
           on board and no one died 'cept for the crew?
2002/6/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25176 Activity:insanely high
6/23    CNN finally admits bias in reporting and promises to not be such
        incredible fuckups in the future.
        \_ When US bombed China's embassy a while back, I don't recall
           there was ANY coverage on the victims neither.  Join the club.
           \_ Yes there was.  I recall names, body count, professions, and a
              bit about their families.
        \_ Hmm, I don't see any pro-Isarel US media being pressured to correct
           its bias.
           \_ Name em.
                \_ ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS
                   \_ *laugh* They're all pro-Palestinian if anyone ever was.
                      Anyway, no one who wants real news goes there anyway.
                      That's bubblegum news for the masses.  Why do you watch?
                      \_ yeah they go to http://freerepublic.com instead!
                         \_ Yawn.  What a weak reply.  Total strawman.  There's
                            only one conservative on the motd lame enough to
                            use biased propaganda pseudo news like the free
                            republic web site as a source and I'm beginning
                            to think it's a lefty shill looking to create an
                            artificial strawman.  Get over it.
        \_ At the end of the article: "Jordan said the company was taking
           criticism from both sides, with Palestinian officials he met on
           Saturday accusing CNN of serving Israeli Prime Minister Ariel
           Sharon.  ``They believe that CNN is the propaganda arm of the
           the other way round.
           Sharon government,'' he said."
           \_ Palestinian whining is not at all the same as CNN admitting
              they fucked up.  The first is just a PR tactic.  The second is
              about CNN's guilt and correcting that misbehavior in the future.
              I can honestly claim CNN doesn't run enough stories about my
              daily events (zero so far! shocking!) but that doesn't mean CNN
              is biased against me since I'm not newsworthy, nor am I a savage
              terrorist murderer who targets school buses.
              \_ What's wrong with targetting school buses? The goal of
                 terrorism is terror after all. Get the fuck out of those
                 \_ You mean the settlements in places like the capitol where
                    buses and cafes are targets?  Settlements my ass.  They
                    won't be happy until the jews resettle in Atlantis.
        \_ I thought the US media has always been accused of pro-Isarel, not
           the other side.
           \_ Spend less time listening to Berkeley-style "liberal"
           \_ Uhm, no.  And as the above points out, accused by who exactly?
              SF/Berkeley is not the center of the country.
              \_ Arab countries, Europe, Japan, China. Pretty much the whole
                 world, except maybe India.
                 \_ Arabs countries? Uhm ok whatever.  European journalism is
                    extreme left wing and Europe is the home to anti-Semitism.
                    Japan is opposed to anything that might drag their economy
                    even further down.  It's easy to whine when someone else
                    is covering your ass.  And China is an enemy state which
                    is opposed to the US and her allies on general principle.
                    \_ and the principles are:  complete disregards of
                       international treaties of any sort, completely
                       disregards of sovereignty of other nation, for the
                       sole purpose of expand its economic interest and
                       overwhelmingly dominance over the world...
                        \_ This is what *all* countries do.  Next!
                       There was a time where Chinese were really look up
                       toward Americans (through out the 80s).  It's American
                       themselves start to treat China as an enemy after
                       TeinAnMen Square 13 yrs ago, after the collapse of
                       Soviet Union, as China become the only country
                       left has remote (and i mean REMOTE) chance to
                       chanllenge American's dominance over the world.
                        \_ You mean when the Chinese ran over peaceful
                           pro-democracy protestors with tanks?  With friends
                           like that I'd rather have enemies.
2002/6/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25156 Activity:high
6/19    What does the lowercase "e" on food packages from europe mean?
        \_ "edible".
             \_ Seriously?
        \_ erection
        \_ KOSHeR
        \_ this isn't the same thing as that described in sec. 5.1 of
           , is it?
                \_ No, that's a number prefixed by an uppercase "E". but thanks.
                   This is a single large lowercase "e" after the net weight.
                   "600g e"
                \_ No, that's a number prefixed by an uppercase "E". but
                   thanks. This is a single large lowercase "e" after the net
                   weight. "600 g e"
        \_ "Also, the amended rules define the term "e" mark -- a
           certification mark used in the European Community (EC) to
           establish that the package is appropriately filled in accordance
           with EC standards.  Failure to allow the use of this mark could
           impede American companies selling in the EC."
           from http://www.ftc.gov/opa/predawn/F95/fairpackaging.htm
           \_ No fucking way!  You trying to say they're creating artificial
              barriers to trade as a form of protectionism?!  It's madness!
              \_ Except that they themselves have to follow those standards?
                 \_ Except that they themselves helped create these barriers
                    which simply codified their previous practices whereas a
                    non-EC country will have to go through a compliance
                    test and spend money changing their business methods to
                    comply.  Thanks for playing Trade Barrier 2002!
2002/6/19 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:25152 Activity:nil
6/19    Is this true or bogus or biased:
        \_ biased.
Ah, Gandhi, the one that sat on his ass for months while the Indian
National Army men(those former Indian soldiers under the Japanese) were
campaigning for the release of their leaders and rioting on the streets
even getting killed. When Gandhi began to see an opportunity opening he
began a peace march which seem laughable to the Brits because all they
had to do was wait until they go away. But the riots and mutiny was
another matter.

 "In 1956 Lord Attlee(former Prime Minister of Great Britain)
  was asked a question about Britain's hurried withdrawal from
  India in 1947. The British statesman who presided over the
  transfer of power to the leaders of India and Pakistan was
  halting in Calcutta for two days during his passage through
  India...Attlee was as good as his reputation for plain
  speaking. Without caring about the official British propaganda
  line, he mentioned a number of reasons for Britain's momentous
  decision, the most important among which, he emphasized, was
  that "the loyalty of the men of the Indian Army to their British
  commanders had been UNDERMINED by Subhas Chandra Bose's
  (Leader of Indian National Army) actions..." Incidentally,
  Governor P.B. Chakaravarti asked Lord Attlee his opinion on
  an allied subject as well. "Toward the end of the discussion",
  he wrote, "I wanted to know to what extent Mahatma Gandhi's
  non-violent movement had influenced the British decision to
  leave India. There was the flicker of a cautious smile on
  Attlee's lips as he uttered with slow deliberation the word
  'MI-NI-MAL'..."  Who had brought the country(India) so near
  its goal? General Sinha's answer is: "The above facts confirm
  that the INA(Indian National Army, which Japan helped to create)
  had a great psychological and political impact even though its
  military impact was not so significant. They also bring out that
  the Indian Army played a silent but significant role toward
  bringing about the independence of India.
            (Pandit's "The Last Days of Netaji")
2002/6/16-17 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:25109 Activity:kinda low
6/16    What is/are the legal driving age(s) in western european countries
        like France, England, etc?
        \_ 18 is the norm.
        \_ Better question - when do girls become legal?
           \_ In Denmark girls in the teens are legal.  Great country unless
              you're looking for a cute virgin.
              \_ Again with the virgins...  why would you want a virgin...
                 teaching is a turnoff.
                 \_ Certain people perfer certain things.  For example, some
                    people love to be school teachers even though I can't stand
                    kids these days.
           \_ As usual, the internet, is, once again, your friend.
2002/6/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Sports] UID:25024 Activity:moderate
6/7     A female company manager makes an employee shave himself and skate
        through Southampton city centre in a pink bikini so he could watch
        England's next World Cup match:
        \_ This sort of misandry will NOT BE TOLERATED!!!
        \_ In Southampton, the guy raised 470 quid skating a circuit of the city
           center three times and it made the news. If he did this in Berkeley
           or, better, the city, I doubt anyone would even notice.
        \_ In Southampton, the guy raised 470 quid skating a circuit of the
           city center three times and it made the news. If he did this in
           Berkeley or, better, the city, I doubt anyone would even notice.
           [ reformatted - motdformatd ]
           \_ Sure they would. The headline would be, "Male employee sues
              female manager for sexual harrassment."
        \_ 1: this is from ananova.  ananova is not a real news source.
           2: if at all true: lawsuit, firing, etc and rightly so.
           \_ Sounds more like something that was said as a joke, and he
              took her up on it.
2002/5/29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24972 Activity:nil
5/28    Poor Britain... sucked into the European quagmire.  Maybe they'll
        "get it" someday soon.  Pity them until then.
2002/5/1 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24657 Activity:high
5/1     Happy May Day!  Woohoo!  Let's celebrate the rise of communism and
        the oppression and murder of millions!
        \_ mayday predates communism. go away.
           \_ Yup, it's been around since the 13th century, according to
              Webster Dict.
                \_ http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/mayday.html has a
        \_ http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/mayday.html has a nice
           little ditty at the end plus some history.  It's all communism.
                   nice little ditty at the end plus some history.  It's all
        \_ I prefer to celebrate the 8 hour work day, fool.
        \_ Is this May Day the same "May Day" that a pilot calls out on the
           radio when the plane is in trouble?
           \_ No.  The pilot is using a French phrase that literally means
            "Help Me".
             \_ How do you spell it?  Why did it beat out "Help"?
                \_ Aidez-moi.
                   \_ That's not pronounced "Mayday." Google is your friend.
                      (and the version that's pronounced as "mayday" by english
                      speakers is "m'aider")
                      \_ Yes, but "m'aider" doesn't make sense as a French
                         command for "help me." Unless you mean "Venez
2002/5/1 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24654 Activity:low
5/1     http://www.theregus.com/content/3/24823.html
        14 minutes and ticking...
        \_ I don't see a reason for the US version of the reg.  It's just a
           shortened version of the original UK version.  If I wanted to skip
           the UK stories, I'd just skip them.  Some are worth reading.  I
           have yet to see a story show on the US Reg but not the UK Reg.
2002/4/29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24634 Activity:high
4/29    4th Amendment RIP:
        \_ It's only Michigan.  How many can find Michigan on a map?
           \_ It's only Poland. How many can find Poland on a map?
              - N. Chamberlain
                \_ Peace with honor!  Look ma!  We got a piece of paper!
        \_ "An officer executing a search is not required to give a copy of the
            affidavit to the person or leave a copy at the place from which the
            property was taken" - so the cops can take your stuff and not tell
            you that they did?
            \_ yes.
            \_ Yeah this is obviously about giving cops the power to burglar
               your cd collection under the cloak of the law.  Duh.  Not.
2002/4/29 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24630 Activity:kinda low
4/28    Yugoslav massacre, Israeli massacre.
        \_ Umm, yeah. Poor Sharon, just like Milosevic. Vicims of
           an obvious European plot to frame them for genocide.
           \_ Maybe you didn't notice but Milosevic was doing quite well
              defending himself in court, eh?  And on what do you base this
              oddly trusting warm fuzzy feeling about the Europeans?  Are you
              trying to claim the stuff in this article is untrue?
        \_ Why no mention of Victor Drazen in this article?
2002/4/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24614 Activity:high
4/27    http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/26/germany.shooting/index.html
        Thank God they have strict gun control or who knows what might have
        \_ clearly fewer would have died because the targets would have
           been able to protect themselves! NRA4EVA!!1!
2002/4/25 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24582 Activity:kinda low
4/24    What exactly is so special about French laundry methods? Why are
        alot of cleaners "Parisian"? I tried looking this up but kept finding
        references to the restaurant in Napa.
        \_ Since the French don't bathe regularly their wash has to be done
           extra well.  That's all.
           \_ they might be using french kiss to clean them up.
2002/4/24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24558 Activity:insanely high
4/23    Le Pen must be doing something right.  Every 'group' in France is
        really pissed off. news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=288329
        \_ yeah, every 'group', like immigrants and jews. some people
           might regard it as a bad thing that the far right is ridsing
           again in europe.  go back to freeper, you fucking shithead.
           \_ bad troll!  BAD! TROLL!
           \_ Ridsing?  Oh, you mean rising.  No, you're confused.  Nazi-ism
              is the far left, not right.  Read up on the philosophies and it
              will become plain that total state control of all industry,
              education and other aspects of daily life is the antithesis of
              what conservatism is about.  Freeper?  Never read it.  Fucking
              shithead?  Resorting to very weak and 6th grade level personal
              attack only shows you have no real points or ideas.  Anytime
              you'd like to try again without ranting like an ignorant 6th
              grader I'll be here to help you out.
              \_ Nazi'ism is on the far left? Hahahaha. And Orwell was
                 a conservative, right?
                 a conservative, right? And Buchanan is actually a closet
                 liberal. You can make up your own definition for words,
                 but don't expect to be able to talk to anyone else.
                \_ Le Pen is not a fascist.  He's a reactionary bully, and
                   he won because he picked up on topics that the traditional
                   centrist parties were too complacent to deal with (have
                   you read the socialist and RPR election platforms?  Note
                   any similarities or slightly bland statements?)  He's also
                   had a lot of support from Jews in France, interestingly
                   enough, because of a lot of the anti-semitic vandalism from
                   north African immigrants.  Also, he won 17% of the vote...
                   ...out of the 28% of the electorate that actually bothered
                   to go vote.  Pay close attention to the parallels to US
                   third-rate candidates, who won because not enough people
                   went and voted.  Whining after the fact is easy...can you
                   say "serves you fucking right?"  -John
                \_ http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064643 - danh
        \_ Why isn't anyone condeming the Palestinians (Muslims) for sending
           their early teen children strapped with TNT belts to blow
           themselves up.  It is absolutely disgusting.  Arafat and Muslims,
           together with Kofi Anan and the UN have completely twisted
           any sense of the morality in West vs Mideast relations.
           Where is the revulsion (from the media for example)? Impressionable
           children are indoctrinated to commit suicide, that is noble?
           \_ It all depends on whether you believe in the cause.
                \_ No, there is NO excuse period! It is evil in its purest
                   form.  Any practicers of that kind of barbarism
                   deserve to be wiped from the face of the earth.  Picture
                   when you have a child preparing him to commit suicide-
                   strapping on the belt, dressing him, assuaging his
                   fear and trepidation, and finally sending him off.
                   \_ So collective punishment is good?
                   \_ "...deserve to be wiped from the face of the earth."
                      Answering barbarism with barbarism is not the answer.
                   \_ Firstly, from what I read, they are like "late
                      teens", not "early teens".  Have you seen the movie
                      Spartacus?  Kid was given weapon to fight against
                      the Roman legions in the movie.  Not many people
                      objected to that, cause they were supposedly
                      fighting for "FREEDOM"!
          \_ Many, many people, including Arafat, have condemned attacks
             on civilians.
2002/4/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24502 Activity:kinda low
4/19    Related to European post below: What are some ways for an
        american programmer (like me) with little spanish and
        less french, to find a job in a european country? How
        important is the language issue? (eg, are there places
        that operate in english?) Are tehre other obstacles (eg,
        work permit, citizenship, etc) (John, you seem to have alot
        of experience.) Thanks.
        \_ I had the impression that Europe hates having foreign workers
           except in the most menial of positions?  --PeterM
           \_ Where "foreign" is defined as "anyone not from their village".
2002/4/19 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24492 Activity:high
4/18    How's the culture different at work between an american and european
        company in high tech industry?
        \_ European workers work hard AND play hard. American workers do only
           either one. Based on my obsrvation. YMMV.
           \_ what are your referring to with playing hard? Computer games?
              something else?
                \_ Drinking, dancing, (=) clubbing til 4am.
           \_ Europeans work hard? At what? I wouldn't call standing in
              line at the gov. office for your check from the state hard
              work. Perhaps you are referring to the grueling 35 hrs/wk
              plus 2 mos vacation/yr along hard work.
              \- in my experience a lot of europeans i have met [german and
                 french] are a lot like stanfraud people: they are bright but
                 are interested in working in "glamorous" roles like "making
                 deals" and "architecture" rather than working in the trenches.
                 Curiously the hardcore hackers from France I have met are
                 not "ethnic french". but maybe some of this is a function of
                 their having a telecom and finance orientation. --psb
        \_ I've worked for French, Swiss, German, and American companies
           in Switzerland and around Europe, as well as with loads of Brits.
           The work ethics and styles vary widely--i.e. I've seen the Germans
           as generally technically bright but aloof from menial shit, the
           Swiss tend to be great workhorses, but get up to leave at 5 pm
           sharp (unless in an American company culture), and the English
           are very punctilious and reliant on rules.  It varies widely,
           what cultural environment someone is in (i.e. a Brit working in
           a Swiss company, where the hierarchy is pretty low-key, is far
           more useful than one in the UK, where there's a lot of
           backstabbing.)  In general though I've found Europeans to be
           a lot less whiny than Americans in their work environments,
           but once again, this exludes American expats.  Also, among all
           the managers I've worked for, the French have been by far the
           most agreeable, as they leave you alone if you make them look good.
           American and English managers in their native environments and
           corporate cultures are permanently in my shit list.  However, with
           the employees t really depends on the situation.  -John
2002/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24487 Activity:nil
4/18    Toursists don't read the news!
2002/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24482 Activity:nil
4/18    American vs. British journalism.  Compare & contrast.
        and more from the Chicago Sun Times:
2002/4/11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24421 Activity:high
4/11    I love the use of the passive third person through out this whole
        news piece.  As if the rocks just sort of attacked the school bus.
        Not a single mention of _who_ might be throwing rocks.  I guess the
        reporters don't want to 'humiliate' anyone....
        \_ The people are identified as "stone throwers".  That the reporter
           didn't identify a group of people may have been because they
           got their information from second hand sources.
           What did you want them to say?  Palestinean supporters?
           You can't just make stuff up if you don't know for sure.
           \_ C-.  Back to e190 and Subject A.  The reporter couldn't find
              one first hand witness with an entire bus load of victims?
              What a total crock.  Also if it was Arabs then why does the
              What a total crock.  Also if it was[n't] Arabs then why does the
              rest of the article talk about "tension" between Jews and Arabs
              in France?
2002/3/27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24239 Activity:insanely high
3/26    With regards to reparations, anyone who receives $$$ should be stripped
        of citizenship and forced to return to the country of most likely
        origin. These people have benefitted from coming here, despite the
        trials of their ancestors. If they take the money then they need
        to go back where they would've been as a condition. --dim
        \_ i learned everything i know about african history from
           the iron maiden album "number of the beast," so i disagree.
        \_ Did we send those Japenese-Americans who were paid reparations
           back to Japan?
           \_ The legal aspects of this case are vastly different. The
              reparations was compensation for violation of their 3rd
              amendment rights. These people were FULL CITIZENS at the
              time thier constitutional rights were abriged. They had
              a legitmate legal claim to be compensated for illegal
              search and seizure of thier property and possessions
              without due process.
              In the case of those asking for reparations for slavery,
              the plantifs have no case since they were not guarenteed
              any rights until the passage of the 13th amendment. (By
              the 3/5ths compromise slaves counted as people for census
              purposes but were not protected under the bill of rights).
              The reparations for slavery have already been paid, in the
              lives of the men and women who fought and died in the civil
              war, in the passage of the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments
              and in the end of segreation. That the original intent of
              the founders (all men are created equal) is present in
              modern america and is as prevasive nowhere else in the world
              should be enough for anyone of any race. A handout cheapens
              and renders impotent the Freedom and Liberty that has been
              gained and defended. - !OP
              \_ I'm undecided on the issue of reparations, but it's clearly
                 ridiculous to claim that slaves have no right to reparations
                 because slavery was legal at the time.  Their claim is about
                 moral rights.  -tom
                 \_ Moral rights? Property has no moral rights, no rights
                    period. Yes slavery was a terrible thing, but it was
                                   positive for any of those inititally brought
                                   over...  though you raise an interesting
                                   point...  I'd be curious to see the
                                   statistics comparing the percentage of
                                   people killed in, or travelling to, the US,
                                   vs. the percentage killed in Africa during
                                   a comparable time frame. And it is only
                                   arguably positive for any ancestors when
                                   you consider the conditions that most
                    legal when it happened. They have no claim to compensation
                    because the there was no crime committed. I think that
                    these people should get on with thier lives instead of
                    sitting around pretending to be perpetual victims and
                    childern of slaves. You are what you believe yourself
                    to be, if you think that you are a victim, you will be.
                    \_ There's no claim against a slave owner, who was
                       within the law.  There may be a claim against the
                       government for enacting immoral laws.  (The fact
                       that the government says it's legal doesn't absolve
                       it of its own moral responsibility). -tom

                       \_ Legal precident is that the just compensation
                          of the enactment of a immoral law is to repeal
                          the law in question. As the laws in question
                          have been repealed, there is no basis for this
                          \_ That's overly simplistic.  It's not only
                             that the law was immoral, it's that it caused
                             damage, and a claim for damages certainly could
                             have merit.  A claim for damage 150 years after
                             the fact, perhaps not.  -tom
                    \_ [ comment about holocaust reparations being paided
                         dispite the holocaust being legal at the time time
                         inadvertently deleted, sorry ]
                        \_ Reparations paid by eurpoeans to other eurpoeans,
                           is not sufficient legal precident in the US.
                           I am talking about crimes commited in territory
                           where the Consitution is valid.
              \_ Uhm, where does it say its a 3rd amendment issue?
                 \_ Internment was a 3rd amendment issue. JAs had a
                    legal claim. Slaves cannot make any legal claim
                    under the law as it existed when they were wronged.
                    \_ I misread the indenting.  Nevermind.  Makes sense.
           \_ maybe. but that was different, it was wartime. wartime rules
              are different than peacetime rules.
              \_ yeah, fucking people over because it's wartime is somehow
                 a more outright offense then doing it peacetime.  whatever.
                 \_ Yes, at least there was some rationale in WWII, however
                    cooked up, for locking up American citizens because
                    they were of Japanese ancestry.   --Jon
                 and not the euro-boat-people. Think about if the
                 same things were committed today and you'll see some of
                 the flaws in your logic.
                    \_ There wasn't any rationale in any other cases? I'm
                       assuming that dim's ignorant original comment was
                       in regards to slavery? Are you trying to say that
                       there weren't countless "scientists" and philos-
                       ophers making justifications for why it was ok
                       to enslave brown people all around the globe? - rory
                       \_ Excuse me, but I think that if you think about it
                          you will find my comment enlightening. Has slavery
                          helped or hurt the people in question? --dim
                          \_ I have thought about it, and I never said your
                             post wasn't enlightening... It is enlightening
                             of the fact that you are ignorant and/or
                             racist. Are you really trying to argue that
                             slavery has had a net positive effect on
                             Africans brought to America?       - rory
                             \_ It certainly was a net positive for their
                                descendants (they live in a prosperous society
                                vs whatever african shithole they originally
                                came from), and it may have been a net positive
                                for some of them (in a sense that they would
                                have been executed as POWs in some tribal war
                                otherwise, or perhaps died of malaria).
                \_ wow when did david horowitz get a CSUA account? - danh
                                \_ It's a net negative - hundreds of years
                                   of slavery, crappy lives up till the
                                   the Civil Rights movement.  And it is
                                   the black people themselves who
                                   stood up, fought for their rights, and
                                   made better lives for themselves.
                                   Incredible to see rightwing fuckheads
                                   talking out of the their arses and
                                   trying to give credit to the slave
                                   traders for what is good in the lives
                                   of today's African Americans.
                                   \_ Excuse me but the civil rights movement
                                      was a Republican agenda item.  You still
                                      have sheet/hood wearing ex-KKK members in
                                      Congress right *now*.  Thanks for adding
                                      your biased agenda driven bit of weak
                                      historical revisionism to the motd.
                                   \_ Yup, Abraham Lincoln was black.
                                      \_ That Abe was a good man doesn't
                                         negate the fact that it was a net
                                         negative.  As for standing up for
                                         themselves, I am referring to the
                                         Civil Rights movement, not during
                                         the Civil War period.
                                         \_ Oops, sorry.
                                \_ Are you kidding me?? It certainly *wasn't*
                                   positive for any of those inititally
                                   brought over...  though you raise an
                                   interesting point...  I'd be curious to
                                   see the statistics comparing the percentage
                                   of people killed in, or travelling to, the
                                   US, vs. the percentage killed in Africa
                                   during a comparable time frame. And it is
                                   only arguably positive for any ancestors
                                   when you consider the conditions that most
                                   blacks were living in for the larger part
                                   of the last century and a half... and the
                                   fact that I'm sure that almost all brought
                                   over were perfectly content, and that most
                                   tribal warfare was caused by colonizing
                                   countries anyway.
                                   \_ The evil Westerners made the poor
                                      africans fight each other?  What, they
                                      have no free will?  Do you have a source
                                      on this last point?  People often forget
                                      that 'people of color' can be just as
                                      nasty as the blackest (whitest?) western
                                      imperialist pig-dog.
                                      \_ This is always the stupidest argument
                                         put forth.
                                      \_ People also often forget that
                                                European countries.  If you
                                                disagree, feel free to go
                                         before colonization, and subsequent
                                         "development" by former colonizers,
                                         Africa did not consist of formal
                                         nation-states at all, but rather
                                         loose tribal nations. These coexisted
                                         in relative peace (compared to how
                                         things are now). Now you tell me
                                         what all this "tribal warfare" is
                                         about...               - rory
                                         (Hint: details of the arbitrary
                                          borders imposed on the continent,
                                          and who gets to be the recipient
                                          of all the western development
                                          \_ Talk to the British and their Euro
                                             allies about the fucked up borders
                                             created in Africa to intentionally
                                             cause chaos and worsen tribal
                                             warfare.  This was not an American
                                             action.  We were a bunch of total
                                             world nobodies when this all went
                                             down.  The historical revisionism
                                             on the motd is sickening.  If you
                                             can't make a point without the
                                             outright *lying* then you don't
                                             have a point and should go away
                                             and shut the fuck up.  Thank you.
                                             \_ This whole subthread is
                                                pointless.  That US is better
                                                than African nations is
                                                besides the point.  US is
                                                also better than all the
                                                European and Asian countries.
                                                If you disagree, feel free to
                                                go home.
                                   \_ That argument assumes the slavers knew
                                      that the slaves would be better off in
                                      the new world. Since tens of thousands
                                      died enroute and tens of thousands died
                                      at the hands of their owners, this would
                                      be a very poor point to make.
        \_ We have benefited from them being here too. Should we therefore
           go back to wherever we came from?
           \_ Of course we have. That is why we are paying them. Then they
              need to leave. --dim
              \_ You shell out my $9m and I'm outta here!  Be glad to go!
                 \_ To, say, Nigeria? Doubt it.
                   \_ have you any idea what $9m can buy in NIgeria???
                   \_ I'm off to the slums of eastern europe where my peoples
                      came from... *with* my $9m bucks!  Gladly.  As soon as
                      that money clears I'm soooo out of here.
              \_ No, I think dim should go back to where s/he came from, but
                 dim's money stays here. That's more fair.
        \_ I totally agree that reparations are impractical when both the
           criminals and the victims are long dead.  In the case of
           Japanese-American internees, it made some sense since the
           the reparations were paid to actual victims.  Having said that,
           it's kind of funny when you  see people so ready to draw a
           line between themselves and the crimes committed by their
           ancestors, and in the very next breadth, they want to send
           other people "home" because these people's ancestors came later
           then their ancestors, seemingly saying that they have more
           right to be here simply because their ancestors came earlier.
           \_ I only want to send the people home who want the money, not
              all of the "victims". Capiche? --dim
              \_ First their "home" is here. Second, then those who
                 "benefited", the perpetrators/benefited should leave
                 unless they pay. but you can argue that is all of us in
                 some way, even those who just arrived yesterday. However
                 you a very confused if you argue that their
                 descendants are better off. You are mixing up your idea
                 "of going home" with reparations. You are missing the
                 big picture. If their ancestors were not exploited
                 and perhaps let to live/work/immigrate freely they
                 may have been the ones running the country today
                                        \_ hahahhahahahhah! yeah right!
                                           \_ michael jordan, oprah
                 and not the euro-boat-people. In any case, you cannot
                 put a condition onto people because Americans are free to
                 live where they want to. Think about if the same
                 things were committed today and you'll see some
                 of the flaws in your logic. It does not follow.
                 They are not related. That said, I agree reparations
                 are not going to work. The only thing possibly more
                 un-feasible is your plan!
        \_ thank you...
        \_ Even if both parties were alive, the claim would be on a poor
           legal footing.  They're seeking reparations for something that
           was legal at the time.  I suspect that such reparations would
           be deemed unconstitutional on an ex-post-facto basis.
           \_ Doesn't matter if it was "legal at the time".
              \_ Of course it does, duh.  Go look up the "ex post facto"
                 concept.  Jesus Christ some people around here are so dumb.
                 \_ You can argue it but ex post facto does not matter
                 \_ It was legal to keep innocent men behind bars
                    but after they are freed, they still sue.
           \_ CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?
2002/3/15 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:24121 Activity:insanely high
3/15    US aid paltry:

        "Not only is the United States the stingiest of all rich-country aid
        donors (spending only 0.1% of its national income on foreign aid,
        compared with the European average of 0.3%), its aid is particularly


        "President Bush today proposed a three- year, $5 billion
        increase in American foreign aid to poor nations that support human
        rights, adhere to strong systems of law and have open markets."
        \_ Whelp!  That's that!  Our TAX PAYER FUNDED AID is being wasted so
           we should just stop bothering and end all aid programs.  Thanks for
           the link.
        \_ Get a f'ing clue.  Who exactly footed the bill for all
           UN excursions around the world the past two decades?  Who
           stations the 5th Fleet to guard the Saudi Arabian oil
           predominantly used by Europe?  The US has been the de facto
           national defense of Europe the past 5 decades.
           \_ Stationing troops in the Middle East for the benefit
                \_ So in the glofified world of political virtue you live name me
                   one country that would want us to leave.  And then
              of (primarily) American owned oil companies can't be
              called foreign aid, by any stretch of the word or idea.
              Most people would consider it thinly veiled imperialism.
                \_ You're right.  Let's pull out and let the whole area fall to
                   shit and see exactly how this had no benefit to Europe who
                   gets the bulk of their energy from the Middle East.  It's
                   funny how if we go somewhere it's imperialism and we're bad
                   and if we don't then we're isolationist and we're bad.
                   \_ Did Europe clamor for the US to come to the aid of
                      Kuwait? Your knowledge is history is very rudimentary.
                      Kuwait? The only people who cared were the Texas
                      oil boys and their puppets in Kuwait. If you don't
                      think American foreign and domestic policy is
                      in the service of Big Oil, you should at least
                      consider it.
                      \_ how does middle eastern oil help texas?  as an
                         alaskan, i can tell you that poeple up there
                         are more against our dependence on middle
                         eastern oil than anyone.  alsaska has a negative tax
                         because of *alaskan* oil riches, not oil company
                         profits in general. i don't see why texas would be
                         any different.
                         \_ you do know we get more oil from the US and Canada
                            than we do from the middle east don't you?
                         \_ Not Texans so much as Exxon, Mobile, Texaco,
                            and Chevron executives and shareholders.
                \_ So in the glofified world of political virtue you live name
                   me one country that would want us to leave.  And then
                   ask yourself why you don't live there?
                   \_ South Korea.  And I did.
                      \_ South Korea wants the American military out of the
                         DMZ?  You're stupid and a liar.
                         \_ He answered your inane question and you call
                            him stupid and a liar. You are a dolt.
                                \_ And what a complete disaster US involvement
                                   in South Korea has been.  Great point!
        \_ the problem is not with the hard core figures. It has to do with
           perception and marketing. US should save that money and spend it
           on marketing (setup proxy radio+TV stations) which portrays that
           we're not all that greedy and evil. And it should do that in
           Muslim countries ASAP.
           \_ Why?  Why do you care what "The Arab Street" thinks?  That's not
              who the terrorists are.
              \_ Sympathy lends legitimacy.
2002/2/23-24 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23958 Activity:insanely high
2/22    Just curious, when the Olympics was held in Berlin back in the 30s
        how many gold medals did Germans get?
        \_  ya gotta love google...
                Top winners          G   S   B    Total
            1.  Germany             33  26  30    89
            2.  USA                 24  20  12    56
            3.  Italy                8   9   5    22
           \_ wow those Nazis are really good... or not :)
           \_ wow, taking performance enhancing drugs even then, eh?
        \_ Keep in mind, that Germany before WW2 was the techincally
           most advanced nation in the world.  Nazi party managed to
           pull Germany out of depression which lasted 10 years.
           Too bad, among other things, Hitler never been to Asia
           at the time, otherwise, he probably will not complain about
           lack of "living space" for the German people.
           \_ Max Schmeling and Jesse Owens would tell you otherwise.  -John
           \_ Nah, Germany was really advanced pre-WWI.  By pre-WWII,
              it has slipped a little relatively speaking.  Also,
              Germany is crowded even by Asian standards.
           \_ Hitler not complain about bad engrish on motd not either!
        \_ Why does UK suck so bad in the Olympics relative to the
           other European nations?
           \_ because their wide success in rock music has encouraged
              more youth to pick up music as opposed to sports.
           \_ They don't have mountains.  -tom
           \_ they have bad teeth
           \_ All the males died in WW I / II, leaving mostly
              effeminate noncombatants to repopulate.  Plus they are
              socialists and their societies are dying, literally.
              \_ But UK is less socialist than Sweden and Norway!
                 \_ Sweden and Norway don't have zillions of foreigners on
                    welfare swamping their shores.
              \_ Is it "dying", too?
                    \_ yeah that's it - blame the foreigners.
                       \_ Blame goes where it belongs.  shrug.
                    \_ Canada is just as socialist, has just as many
                       foreigners, and still did well at the Olympics.
                       Your explanation is stupid.  I like Tom's
                       explanation better.  But then UK also kind of
                       sucks at Summer Olympics.  The rock music
                       explanation ain't bad either.
                        \_ Hey genius, the topic moved beyond medal count.
                           Try again.
                           \_ Why do you insist on trying to explain
                              your stupidity.  I suggest the best way
                              for you to cover it up is to delete
                              this thread in its entirety.
                              \_ No one was explaining anything.  You were
                                 being corrected.  So this makes two times you
                                 needed correcting on the same thread.  You
                                 stick around, son, you'll get it one day.  I
                                 suggest a basic reading comprehension course
                                 at a local community college for a good start.
                                 \_ The only time the topic changed was when
                                    it shifted from medal count to how stupid
                                    you are.
                                    \_ Maybe you're not ready for community
                                       college basic reading comp. courses.
2002/2/22 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23950 Activity:nil
2/21    To the French/Sartre/existentialist buffs out there...is there
        an english translation of "Les Jeux Sont Faits" available? My
        French has completely degraded over the past few years so I can't
        read the original version.
        \_ Babelfish!
        \_ Run the motd archive through the french version of jive.  Same
           \_ OK let me rephrase the request. Is there a good or reputable
              translation of the book? -op
              \_ Why the f&%k are you asking the motd this (other than
                 anonymously boasting about your erudite reading requirements)?
                 \_ Because the motd is sometimes a good source of info.
                    \_ Consider me duly slapped and carry on. (!sarcasm)
2002/2/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23880 Activity:very high
2/15    This olympic figure skating contraversy brings out something that
        reminded people of the cold war.  All the eastern block former
        communist countries still stick together.  Yeah, they may be
        democracies now, but they still remember their communist roots.
        \_ a Deep Thought, by Jack Handy.
        \_ uh, yes, I'm sure you're the only one who noticed this.  Are you
           next going to point out the French joined them and post the standard
           anti-French tirade about them, too?
           \_ Actually, I think the original post was cut and pasted from
              a SJ Merc article.  Either that or http://ESPN.com.
        \_ That's not quite the situation. The fact that many of these countries
           were under the the thumbs of Soviet-backed military dictatorships
           complicates the "old buddies" theory.
              \_ Then the OP needs to get bashed for not providing a link or
                 quoting ths source in addition to posting the obvious.  I'm
                 still trying to decide if the SF Comical is better or worse
                 than the SJM but neither is a 'good' source of news.
        \_ Just like US and UK still sticking together after two and a quarter
           centuries of independence.
           \_ Uhm, more like since WWI or thereabouts.  1777 wasn't a good year
              for US/British relations.  Also 1776 wasn't the US becoming
              magically independent.  We "declared" it.  That's why we call it
              the "Declaration of Inde" oh nevermind.  Go read a book.  Why do
              I bother?
              \_ Yeah I know we declared independence.  What's your point?
              \_ 1812 wasn't so hot either. --dim
2002/1/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23438 Activity:very high
1/2     Why the Euro conversion is a Good Thing (tm):
        \_ Let's see... 1 euro = $0.90... Damn that's nice.
           \_ CSUA-field-trip-to-Deutchland-P
              \_ nil -- russian jew
        \_ The idea was originally 1 euro = $1.00.
        \_ There's a better reason: it'll take the europeans years to recovere
           from entangling and mushing up their different economies, legal
           system, transport, etc, etc, etc, during which time we'll leave
           them in a far distant second place economically while we continue
           to ship more cigarettes, Coke, and McDonald's over there.  There
           is more than one way to win a war.  Conquering your enemy's
           culture without bloodshed is the best long term method of victory
           and it creates jobs along the way.  I'm all for the Euro.
           \_ In 20 years we are going to be second to China anyway.
              \_ Laughable.
                 \_ Yeah, the World Bank is a bunch of jokers.
                    \_ do you know the real reason the american economy
                       has been having problems?  ever since the motd.public
                       has been unreadable to those without csua accounts,
                       allan greenspan has been unable to read it, and
                       has been without it's wisdom for quite some time.
                       the effects are obvious.
                       \_ finger motd@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
           \_ When you subtract out all of the .com crap which was transient
              growth,  Europe actually had better productivity growth than the
              US.  They also work less than we do.
              \_ which why Germany test scores are so high
2001/12/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23405 Activity:moderate
12/30   Can I use U.S. cordless phone (900MHZ, 2.4GHZ) outside U.S.
        (Europe, Asia)?  Will I cause or receive inteference?  Where
        can I find out more about this?
        \_ European cordless phones uses a standard called DECT.  It runs
           in the 1.8-1.9ghz range.  Plus, GSM in any place other than the
           U.S.A. runs in 900 or 1800 mhz, so you will most likely  cause
           and receive interference if you're in the 900 mhz range.
2001/12/28 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:23390 Activity:high 75%like:23392
"So what ties us together? We're tied together by our belief in
political democracy. We're tied together by our belief in religious
freedom. We're tied together by our belief in capitalism, a free
economy where people make their own choices about the spending of
their money. We're tied together because we respect human life. We're
tied together because we respect the rule of law. Those are the group
of ideas that make us Americans."

''12/28 Europe / Arabia vs. Isreal / U.S.
        ...from the Spectator, a read so awesome, I wet my pants:
        \_ The kind of crap that sodans read is scary. And even scarier is
        that they read it on a regular basis.
          \_ Agreed - at least as concerns the nutty freerepublic guy.
                \_ reiffin
        \_ When are you going to learn to format properly? Let me guess,
           this is from George "What election law?" Bush.
2001/12/22 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23343 Activity:nil
12/21   Ann Coulter: Attack France!  (It's at least worth reading
        before you delete)
        \_ Is this supposed to be funny?
           \_yep. Not only supposed to be, but is.
             \_ Nope. Not funny. It is like a bad Saturday Night Live
                skit that never ends. Not one laugh in it.
        \_ How on earth does this woman stay syndicated?
           \_ because some people aren't dumb humorless liberals.
              \_ They are stupid shit-kicking half literate rednecks?
        \_ ... although I think Ann missed one very important point,
           France bought Iraq's war debt from Kuwait.
                                - original poster
2001/12/14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23244 Activity:high
12/14   http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001571536,00.html
        I'm not sure if the first or the second article on this page is
        more scary.  Either way, be glad if you're living somewhere else
        besides France or Britain.
        \_ be forwarned the UN wants to have this ability over Americans.
           they want to gut the 2nd amendment and take away our guns.
           \_ it was a good try until you forced the 2nd amendment thing in
              there and you really blew it with the "our guns" bit at the end.
              theres no need to whack people over the head with the bait.
                \_ Just because you don't hear about it on CNN Headline news
                   doesn't mean its not true.
                   \_ Yes I know the UN wants to take over the US.  The UN =
                      enemies of the US and the jealous third world.  However,
                      just because they want it doesn't mean they're going to
                      get it.  Just stop voting in anti-americans and it'll
                      be ok.
                      \_ Actually, the US benefits a great deal from the UN,
                         without which US political clout would be vastly
                         reduced.  Don't be stupid.
        \_ As soon as the guns go, so does your freedom.  What other
           deterent is there?
           \_ the smell?
           \_ Uh, hmmm... the military?
                \_ The greatest threat to this country is from within.
                   Where have u been the past 10 years?
                   \_ Your vote counts.  Stop voting for enemies of this
2001/12/7-9 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23179 Activity:high
12/7    What is the best way to transfer funds between accounts in U.S. and
        another country (in Europe) without fee or getting riped off
        by special conversion rate?  The amount is small and just to cover
        my expenses when I travel or order internationally, i.e. < $2000.
        \_ My dad has a US checking account at B of A.  Every month I make
           a deposit to his account at a branch here, and he withdraws the
           money at a branch in Hong Kong.  No transaction fee, but I don't
           know if the conversion rate is the same as the standard rate.
           \_ I asked at the Bank of America in Hong Kong whether
              one can access his US account in HK, the answwer I get
              is plain no, as Bank of America Asia supposedly cannot
              access account of its parent bank in US.  If you are
              converting from USD to a foreign currency, you are bound
              to pay a conversion fee (3% I think in most banks). You
              can open an USD account in a more established financial
              houses (like SG), so you can withdraw funds outside of US
              much more easily.  But for $2000, it's easier to get
              travel's checks.
              \_Tnx for the reply.  However often the need to transfer
                money arises and the amount becomes known while I am outside
                U.S., not to mention carrying traveler's check is like
                carrying cash other than being much safer.
                \_ I've heard from a lot of people that ATMs are good,
                   you get better (minimal but still significant)
                   fees. Better than changing cash out.
                   \_ but you cannot deposit foreign currency to your account
                        from abroad.
                        \_ Go back and read the stated objective, duud.
                \_ Use your credit card. You'll get the best exchange rate
                   and if you pay it off, the fee will be minimal. No cash
                   that you need to carry which should eliminate the cost of
                   \_ Depends. While I was in Europe this past summer, it was
                      cheapest for me to just withdraw cash from ATMs: BofA
                      was tacking a "foreign currency conversion fee" to each
                      of my CC transactions, while for the ATM withdrawals, I
                      was getting the interbank exchange rate without any
                      additional fees.  When I lived in Germany, I had my
                      paychecks direct-deposited to my credit union account
                      in the US and paid for everything in cash: if my needs
                      exceeded the daily transaction limit, I planned ahead
                      and visited the ATM multiple days in a row.  If you
                      want an account at a bank that has a presence on both
                      sides of the Atlantic, I've heard that Citibank and
                      HSBC are good choices for US->Europe expatriates,
                      although I have no experience with either.  -- kahogan
                \_ which ever route you choose, make sure you don't go to
                   the foreign currency exchange booth at traverler's spots.
                   Their rate is horrible.  (something like 8%)
              \_ That's strange.  Maybe my dad makes his withdrawal by writing
                 himself a check and then cash it at a B of A branch there?
                 I've never asked him.
                 \_  The more I think about it, this is a good way for money

                 \_ Yes, this is exactly how my father got money at a BofA
                        branch in Taiwan.
2001/11/14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23040 Activity:very high
11/14   Is United States is the only country in the world that advertises
        "weight control" pet food?  For pets that are too fat?  You really
        have to have lived in an improverished country to realize just how
        absurdly rich this country is.  And why so many people in the world
        hate us for it.
        \_ So you are saying envy is good and excusable?  Maybe they should
           get off their asses, and invest, and create business and wealth.
           There is no such thing as absurdly rich.
           \_ It's not about envy or jealously.  You're making that up.
           \_ Have you no sense of shame at all?
        \_ The only thing it means is that Americans and their pets are
           both fat.
        \_ They probably have it in Japan too... and maybe France or UK.
        \_ Ah yes. We should feel guilty for living in a country with enough
           fucking FOOD. And those poor bastards who keep having 5 kids when they
           can barely feed their own ignorant AIDS-ridden selves should hate us
           because we live in a civilized society. I'm not ashamed to be living
           above the level of animals.
           \_ What a fucking asshole!
           \_ you have never lived in an improverished country have you?  Ever
              wonder why they have so many children?  Because one or two of
              the kids will die.  Also because children work and bring in
              income.  I'd seen first hand children whose only purpose is to
              haul buckets of water up a hill because their shack has no
              running water.  They do that whole day everyday until they die
              or, if they live, they can get a paying job.  Paying job meaning
              shining shoes or collecting scrap.
              \_ If having more children really increase overall productivity,
                 how come those countries haven't solved famine after people
                 have had so many children?
              \_ Look, being poor does not necessitate such a crappy life. There
                 are many other "poor" societies in history. These problems go
                 deeper than just poverty. It's a breakdown of civilization.
                 In some cases the religion makes them not even attempt to raise
                 their living standards; they say the worse they live now, the
                 better they'll have it in the afterlife. Look at how early
                 western societies behaved...most of them didn't have running
                 water either. Towns had a well in the middle.
                 \_ What religion is this?  Cite a passage out of some holy
                    book instead of making shit up.  You're almost as bad as
                    Jon Katz.
                \_ In Islam, this (as in, RIGHT NOW, BEING ALIVE) life is not
                   as vivid or important as the next life, the afterlife.
                    \_ How about: "It is easier for a camel to go through the
                       eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the
                       Kingdom of God."
                       Or this: "They that will be rich fall into a tempatation
                       and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts...
                       for the love of money is the root of all evil:
                       O man of God, flee these things, and follow after
                       righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience,
                       meekness." The Bible is full of this stuff.
                       \_ The bible also extols us to work hard and not be lazy.
                          Yes, the bible want us to trust in the Lord rather
                          than trust in our money.  The bible is not against
                          wealth but against greed, wastefulness, and money
                          obtained through improper means.
                        \_ If anyone bothers to read the Bible they would
                           quickly realize it is a awesome commentary
                           on human existence, it is packed full with
                           perfect wisdom, and a path to self-awareness.
                           It's the best book you could ever read.
        \_  Read "All the trouble in the world", there is a chapter on famine.
        \_ If we all donate our old PCs and Linux software and DSL hubs +
           ethernet cards their standard of living will totally improve!!!
2001/11/12 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:23013 Activity:nil
11/12   In Saving Private Ryan there is this skinny tri-lingual guy who is
        always afraid of combat. Toward the end of the movie he walks
        up the stairway and meets this German guy. How come the German guy
        didn't kill him? Also what did he say to the Germans, and why did
        he shoot only one guy?
        \_Why is Darth Luke's father? Why is Barney pink? Who cares?
2001/10/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Recreation/Food] UID:22833 Activity:very high
10/25   Can anyone recommend a good Italian restaurant in SF?
        \_ Basta Pasta (if you like the whole mofia atmosphere).
        \_ http://www.pizzahut.com
        \_ Price range? How many? What's the occasion? More info please.
                \_ around $30 / person, romantic setting would be nice ..
        \_ Caffe Sport, Steps of Rome, Pasta Pomodoro (decreasing price)
           \_ Steps of Rome sucks.  The food is so-so, they are overpriced,
              and if you actually speak Italian (or know Italians who
              pantomime a lot), you'd realize that the waiters usually insult
              \_ Reminds me of the movie National Lampoon - European Vacation
                 where Chevy Chase and the family went to a restaurant in
                 France and the waiter commented on his daughter's round ass
                 in French.
                \_ the Americans rarely make fun of the Europeans. Why do
                   they make fun of our big belly and Lewdwinsky round ass?
                   \_ It's an American movie, so it's Americans trying to make
                      fun of Europeans making fun of Americans.
              \_ The food is decent, and it is definitely NOT overpriced, but
                 actually quite cheap (pasta < $10). It's all about the
                 atmosphere. $2.50 for a cafe to sit in a loud restaurant
                 watching people go by... go back to Denny's.
                 \_ Agreed.  Yeah, the waiters will hit on your girlfriend if
                    she's cute, insult you on the sly, and the like, but the
                    atmosphere is fun and the tiramisu is excellent.  It's a
        \_ Go to a real Italian resaurant like Mangafuoco or Trattoria
                    great place to go if you're mildly drunk.
?          \_ I like Pasta Pomodoro.  Another one that is good is Buca Di
              Beppo.  You need make reservation.  Otherwise it's 2+ hour wait.
              \_ Pasta Pomodoro is passable Italian.  It's about on par with a
                 Stouffer's frozen Italian Entree heated in the oven.
                 Waits at Buca di Beppo are weird.  Sometimes you wait a long
                 time, and sometimes you get lucky.  Plus, making reservations
                 can be a pain because they only have half of the restaurant
                 available for reservations so they tend to get booked up way
                 in advance.  If possible, try requesting the Kitchen table at
                 Buca di Beppo.  It's rad.
                \_ Buca di Beppo is the worst Italian food I've ever had.  The
                   atmosphere is tacky (think TGIFridays), the waiters are rude
                   and the pasta is slathered with enough garlic to make it
                   \_ Not to mention the ass tiramisu.
                \_ Agreed with the worst Italian comment -- do not go there
        \_ Go to a real Italian resaurant like Mangiafuoco or Trattoria
           Contadina. These losers are sending you to cheapo places with
           mediocre food.
        \_ Fuzio is a PastaPomodoro competitor. I prefer Pomodoro, but Fuzio
           is acceptable.
        \_ DiBeppo is not Italian, it is Eye-talian.
        \_ I've always like Pane e Vino.  Casual and pretty tasty.  The
           other places recommended tended to be more Americanized or
        \_ North Beach Restaurant _used_ to have incredible Italian.
        \_ Via Vai on Union & Cafe Pazzia on 3rd. Good but not cheap food.
           Both have reasonably priced(~$8) thincrust pizzas that are great.
           \_ Last time I went to Pazzia, my pizza was $13.
        \_ What about Joe's down by the Exit Theatre?
        \_ Figaro is terrible. Avoid the place. The Stinking Rose is also
        \_ Zagat says: Delfina, Scala's Bistro, Trattoria Contadina, Emma,
           and Antica Trattoria (in that order). Also, Mazzini Trattoria
           on Telegraph in Berkeley got good marks. Also in Berkeley is
           Venezia, which I like. Oh, and E'Angelo on Chestnut in SF
           makes great lasagna. --dim
           \_ Venezia is ass.
              \_ Uh. Okay. It's not on part with the others I mentioned,
              \_ Uh. Okay. It's not on par with the others I mentioned,
                 but it's not Olive Garden. --dim
        \_ I like Milano on Pacific in SF. Top notch service, romantic (cozy,
                intimate) and in your price range.
           \_ Not bad for what it is, but if that's your idea of top-notch
              service you need to get out more. This is a good place for a
              a casual dinner when you don't want to spend a fortune, but
              it isn't upscale or top-notch in any way. --dim
2001/10/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22682 Activity:very high
10/10   How was dynamite better than other explosives before its time?  Why
        was it such a big invention?  Thx.
        \_ it's stable?
        \_ Easy to make, cheap, powerful, detonates rather than conflagrates,
           safe to handle (i.e., stable.)  i.e., yes.
           \_ Before, nitroglycerin was the explosive of choice. Nobel used
              to make it before TNT. Lost relatives, labs, and manufacturing
              facilities due to the explosive's unstable nature. Lots of
              mining and transport accidents too. Real ugly stuff.
              \_ What was that classic John Wayne film where they are
                 transporting the nitro in a wagon. It was based on another
                 classic (b&w) euro (french?) film...
                 \_ The John Wayne movie is probably Rooster Cogburn.
                    The French movie is probably Le Salaire de la
                    Peur (The Wages of Fear), which was remade as
                    The Sorcerer.   - ok
                    \_ Wrong on the Duke film.
                       \_ Are you sure that's not it?  See the synopsis at
2001/9/23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22596 Activity:nil
9/22    "Afghanistan Is Like Nothing You've Ever Seen, Soviet Vets Say"
        \_ Unlike the Russians and British, we're not trying to take over the
           country and rule the people.
           \_ Unlike the Russians, the British, while having Gen. Elphinstone
              lose a > 12,000 man army the first time around, actually whupped
              them something good, blew up their main mosque, then left,
              having made their point.  They were not trying to take over,
              but rather to prop up a suitable puppet capable of keeping the
              Russians from moving in and threatening India in their desire
              for non-isolated warm-water port.  As Afghanistan, under the
              English-installed kings was actually quite stable from 1847-
              1965-ish, at which point the British were no longer in India,
              and with a government in place there which was friendly to
              the soviets, one might conclude that they were pretty
              successful.  So none of this untameable tribal barbarian stuff,
              please.  -John
2001/9/19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:36334 Activity:nil
9/19    For those inclined to post articles from the Guardian.
        "... the extrapolation of your own adolescent rebellion into a
        cosmic political philosophy in which the most powerful
        country in the world personifies the domineering adult
        authority against which you pit yourself"
2001/9/19 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22524 Activity:very high
9/19    For those inclined to post articles from the Guardian (undeleted)
        \_ Quite reactionary don't you think? It seems to me that this is
           an attempt to break down an argument that isn't being made by
           British left. Namely that mass murder is somehow acceptable in
           this case.
2001/9/18-19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22514 Activity:high
9/18    http://www.foreignaffairs.org/Search/document_briefings.asp?i=19981101facomment1428.xml&nb=0
        \_ A link to Patton's speech:
           Patton was already using terms like "He Man" and "superman".  I
           thought those were first created as comic characters after WWII.
2001/9/12 [ERROR, uid:36270, category id '18005#9.31' has no name! , , Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:36270 Activity:nil
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his
trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
it was the Americans who propped it up, and their
reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets
of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars! into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that
is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
International lines except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find
men on the moon -! not once, but several times -
and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at.
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India
were breaking down through age, it was the Americans
who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
me even one time when someone else raced to the
Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside
help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of

Stand proud, America!
2001/9/10 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22361 Activity:high
9/10    Antimasturbation devices for csua members (no pun):
        Check out http://free.freespeech.org/shockingtruth/pittjohnson.html
        esp. the quotes at the bottom.  These guys are serious...
        \_ It can't be real.  How do you pay for something priced at 34.99
           pound sterling in British currency?  -- not from Britain
        \_ too bad it isn't true.
        \_ It can't be real.  How do you pay for something at 34.99 pound
           sterling in British currency?
           \_ it's obviously not real
2001/9/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22360 Activity:very high 66%like:22353
9/9     Take the red pill:
        \_ i will save the rest of you the trouble:
           "capitalism bad, communism good".
           \_ If that is what you got from it, I question your reading
              comprehension skills. It is no way complimentary of
              comprehension skills. It is no way complementary of
              \_ I love it when morons criticize people.  "Duh, your
                 reading comprehension sucks."  Look up "complementary",
                 it doesn't mean what you think it means.
                 \_ Your vocabulary sucks too. "comlementary" !=
                    "complimentary". Look it up. He, unlike you, used
                    the word correctly.
                    \_ this is unfair. someone corrected the original post.
              \_ well, okay, maybe just "capitalism bad". not sure what other
                 point the overlong drivel had. at some point i ceased caring.
              \_ I think either the article failed to point out that the USSR,
                 being the biggest communist country, also did more or less
                 the same things as mentioned in the article, or it purposely
                 avoided that fact.
                 \_ What does USSR have to do with it?
                    \_ The article seems to blame warfare and imperialism on
                       capitalism, while in fact those problems were common to
                       both capitalism and communism.  It's like when someone
                       finds that a big percentage of students in every
                       university cheats in their exams, he writes an article
                       on the topic "a big percentage of students in University
                       X cheats in their exams".  It's not incorrect, but it's
                       \_ I guess that is one way to think about it. But I don't
                          know anyone who seriously advocates a communist
                          dictatorship as a response to the problems of
                          limited democracy and corporate control of the media.
                       both capitalism and communism.
                       \_ I guess that is one way to think about it.
        \_ sorry, i couldn't get past the stupid matrix analogy.
           "The propaganda lies of yesterday were recorded and
           became consensus history--the fabric of the matrix."
           I just can't make myself believe that anyone who could
           say this with a straight face has anything reasonable
           to say.
        \_ Donate all your belongings to PETA and go live in a cave
           deep in the forest.
           \_ DEEP in the forest.  I don't want to run into you
              on a random hiking trip.
           \_ People for the Eating of Tasty Animals?
2001/9/8 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22353 Activity:high 66%like:22360
9/7     http://www.wholeearthmag.com/ArticleBin/374.html
        \_ "Escaping the Matrix. What if consensus reality is a
            fabricated illusion? Are you ready for the red pill?"
2001/8/14-15 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:22112 Activity:high
8/14    What's the purpose of an air show with military aircrafts?  Why would
        a country want to let other countries know what their jet fighers
        can and cannot do?
        \_ intimidation
        \_ in this day and age, it can be an advertisement -- buy my MIGs!
        \_ it's a major recruiting tool, and PR stunt. Plus what they show
           at the shows is already known. The airshows held in the states
           are for the public and are quite frankly very boring compared
           to the ones at industry air shows held in UK and Paris. There
           the Russians come and show off their stuff and challenge others
           to do the same (certain Su-27 are more acrobatic than anything but
           the F-22). You get to see things like the An-225 Cossack, too.
           the baddest MF cargo plane on the planet
           \_ Isn't the Su-37 far more acrobatic than the F-22?
        \_ I think Pearl Harbor the recent movie gave away our biggest tactic
           of playing chicken with each other and making the enemy follow and
        \_ The air show is that industry's equivalent of a trade conference.
           All the stuff for public consumption is usually a side product.
           You're not seeing the 3rd worlders in th background writing checks.
2001/7/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:21888 Activity:nil
7/19    Cow filled with fireworks dropped from helicopter (picture included)!
2001/7/20 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:21884 Activity:very high
7/19    Yet more people with too much time on there hands:
        \_ Is India even called "India" in India?  --PeterM
           \_ Sure, they all speak English anyway (there's no one "Indian"
              language.) The word comes from the Indus River, or Sindhu,
              also the word Hindu, and Hindustan. But it's irrelevant;
              they seem to think it's insulting on the principle, like
              if you named a pet dogshit France, even though the French
              don't call themselves France.
           \_ Bharath is the real name for "India". Hindu is also not
              a indian word, it is a arabic term invented by muslim
        \_ Are they suggesting that our pres should get a lion instead?
           \_ ^t a^t eaten by a
2001/7/17 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:21826 Activity:nil
7/17    Go Lance!
        \_ Tour de France?
2001/6/21-7/20 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:21589 Activity:high
6/21    Don't you ever wonder about what is going on in the world?
        1. South Africa - Ya there was alittle news about how debeers is
        going private but not much else- they control a good deal of
        energy and recently Africa is coming into its own- why- rich
        people have finally realized that they can buy all the land- and
        they have. But again no one talks about it
                \_ the black man will just wake up and hack off both
                   your arms, like in neighboring rwanda
        2.http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/published/ESP_Lists/esp_udc.htm  : They
        don't have commercials about this- Everyone assumes all those
        rate increase are mandatory---- well not really.......
        3.  Australia: There economy is based a lot of raw material
        production. In 9th or 10 grade had class where we played a game
        called simpolican or something like that- a pred of civilization.
        But you actually had to produce raw materials to produce
        everything else.  So why is it that our press never talks about
        the foundation of our economy- commodity production.
        4. What about going ons in france
        5. What about changing demographics- US simply has to many
        people- if you look at like euro countries people don't work
        nearly as much- thus the need for employees is more- you can
        sustain higher employment if people lets say take off a month
        here and there.
        6. What about families- US just wasted 5 years with no family
        economics- why because everyone was working instead.
        7. I am still waiting for a good story in the news about Japan or
        the Tigers. It is like Taiwan, ah I forgot the 5 tigers and did
        a quick search and came up with http://www.theglobalist.com
2001/6/12 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:21489 Activity:moderate
6/12    An American in Europe:
        \_ USA #1!!!
        \_ and you wonder why http://Salon.com is going bankrupt.
2001/6/11 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:21476 Activity:high
6/11    Anyone has experence moving from the U.S. to Europe?  I am looking
        for a good shipping/freight company.
        \_ once your parcel gets to france, the french people piss on it.
           i'd say hand-deliver it, otherwise pay a courier like DHL./
           \_ But it's FRENCH piss!
              \_ yummy
2001/5/23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:21338 Activity:very high
5/22    Vous etes l'homme maintenant chien!
        \_ qing bu shuo fa yu zai motd.  Wo men zhi you shuo zhong wen.
           \_ Mandarin?
              \_ dang ran!  duo shao ren zai CSUA hui shuo guang dong hua?
                 \_ ni shi ge xiao ben dan. (you are a little idiot.)
        \_ Sont les mots qui vont tres bien ensemble, tres bien ensemble.
        \_ Sean Connery is huge in france, doncha know
           \_ Je suis l'homme chien! - S Connery
        \_ Is this French?
        \_ Kimochi!Kimochi! chichirin ga hoshi
           \_ anta ga hentai. yameroo.
                -\- omanko mo hoshii
           |---- What no girl talk ?`
2001/4/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:21049 Activity:high
4/20    Stupid protesters. They should study history. Idiots don't understand
        globalization prevents war by making countries dependent on trade.
        \_ although the "interdependence theory" is one many people argue for
        [see e.g. Rise of the Tradin State by R. Rosencrance] the naive version
        is simply not true based of the evidence. You think Germany and the
        rest of Europe didnt have complicated trading relationships in the
        early 1900s? --psb
           [see e.g. Rise of the Tradin State by R. Rosencrance] the naive
           version is simply not true based of the evidence. You think Germany
           and the rest of Europe didnt have complicated trading relationships
           in the early 1900s? --psb
        \_ (Though if they don't play by the rules, we beat them up, like Iraq)
           So in the end they shouldn't be protesting the loss of jobs, it's
           better than the loss of lives.  - ex-protestor/communist
        \_ And we declared war on Iraq because of our trade agreements with
           \_ because by disrupting the flow of oil to heavily dependent
              europe and japan, it would affect the global econ.
2001/2/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:20517 Activity:moderate
2/6     Patron Saint of the Internet (how dumb can the pope be?):
        \_ not dumb, senile [moved by the motd mind reader]
           \_ Neither. Quite aware of the humour value.
              \_ Here in America we spell it "humor".
                \_ I see Brit spellings on motd all the time. Who is a
                   well known Brit in CSUA?
                   \_ Wouldn't anyone from Hong Kong use the british spelling?
                      \_ yes, or from Australia, or (I would assume) from almost
                         any other English-speaking nation, aside from the US.
2000/11/16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19786 Activity:high
11/15   Please read the text without ragging on the source.  Dr. Laura had
        the easiest to read (in terms of fonts, etc) copy of this quote:
        Any opinions on this quote?  Was Tyler full of shit?  Where do you
        think we stand on Tyler's timeline if he had it right?
        \_ Tyler is full of B.S. True democracy in a country where the people
           are 100% educated won't vote for more money.  That happens in
           the U.S., in Philipines, in Mexico, etc, where the average voter
           has no clue of what's happening.  We haven't even progressed to
           true democracy yet, much less going on to bondage again.
           \_ unless by "100% educated" you mean 100% brainwashed into your
              or my particular ideology (and even the latter would be a high
              price to pay for what wouldn't really be a democracy), you,
              like most people, have an entirely irrational faith in
              education. -crebbs
           \_ You missed the point. "true democracies" dont last, you always
              degenerate into the haves and the havenots, which then
              accelerates like how the US is going now.
              \_ Its a moot point, since the US is not and has never been
                 a true democracy. The US is a representative republic.
                 A true democracy is not much different than mob rule. A
                 simple majority often makes hasty and ill considered
                 choises. The founding fathers knew this and created a
                 system of government resistant to drastic changes that
                 can plague a democracy.
        \- that quote does better on style than substance. the fall of athens
        has a lot to do with the peloponessian war. See Thucydides and
        Kagan IV: The Fall of the Athenian Empire. You know being invaded
                genreation, that men intheir prime could not be found or
        [by the macedonians] also didnt help. I dontthink we need to worry
        about invasion. The point about populism is interesting. See the
        rule on land reform legislation in Republic of Rome. --psb
           \_ It's not across from France anymore?  Where did they move it to?
                \- here is an interesting quote from Kagan:
                "It is revealing of the state of Athenian politics that
                the Athenians believed they must seek such qualities
                ["prudent cautious, moderate leadership"] in an earlier
                genreation, that men in their prime could not be found or
                trusted to provide it.". --psb
        \_ The U.K. wasnt "invaded" either, but it is no longer where
           it once was
           \_ It's not across from France anymore?  Where did they move
              it to?
           \_ Thanks to the liberals who turned it into a socialist
              welfare state.
              \_ The British Empire fell long before that. Unless you
                 are calling Winston Churchill a liberal.
                 \_ It was still an empire into the early 50's, well
                    after Churchill was out of power.
           \_ The British EMPIRE is anti-democratic.  That's why it fell.
              \_ Actually, it fell because it actually tried to be
                 somewhat nice to the people it conquered, rather than
                 ruling with an iron fist forever.
                 The last straw was of course the massive draining of
                 resources due to WWII.
                 \_ Yeah sure, massive draining of resources from the
                    colonies to the European front.  When the Japanese
                    Imperial Army came with 30000 soldiers, the 80000 Brits
                    ran so fast down the Malayan peninsula, the Japanese
                    soldiers had to grab bicycles from the locals to
                    keep up with the retreating British (note
                    that the terrain in Malaysia is unsuitable for
                    armored vehicles).
                 \_ They will face a problem 10x worse than what the
                    French had when they persisted in their anti-
                    democratic ways in Algeria and IndoChina.
                 \_ Nice?  Please explain in what ways the British were "nice"
                    conquerers.  Taken a history class anytime in this life?
                    \_ yeah, thats a pretty fucking dumb thing for someone
                    to say. it's always hard to tell on the motd who is a troll
                    and who really is a moron.  there are so many true morons
                    and so many really devoted trolls who have honed there
                    skills over the years and they both seem to like to post
                    to the motd. -troller
        \_ The democracy/republic which is the United States will persist
           as long as most people feel that the U.S. is the best country to
           be a citizen of on this planet.  It also persists on a common,
           nation-wide feeling of what is right and wrong, what is fair and
           not fair, and that honest, hard-working people can better
           their situation in a reasonable way, in the face of all that
           is wrong and not fair.  Voting to give yourself money is
           generally accepted as corrupt and embarrassing, unless you
           have a good reason that other people will buy.  For example,
           most people will vote to give veterans money, but most people
           will not vote to give only rich people tax breaks.  People
           may want to abolish taxes, but most people understand
           this will upset the system and create a situation where
           the U.S. is no longer a great place to live.  Anyways, the
           bottom line is that Tyler makes a lame, inflammatory college
           frosh argument that you'd hear in section and from your
                \_ Explain then, why every democracy in existence has
           a higher tax rate now than it did 50 years ago?  And higher
           50 years ago than it was 100 years ago, (obviously you can
           keep going with this).
           \_ Interesting trend.  Explanation not available.  Opinion
2000/11/12-13 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19737 Activity:kinda low
11/11   For those simple minded enough to want to abolish the EC, please

        \_ so what?
           "The Electoral College has evolved, shaping and being shaped by the
            two-party system, which probably would not survive abandonment of
            winner-take-all allocation of electoral votes."
            = another good reason to scrap it.
            \_ Ever live in a country with a bunch of small parties?
               Selling support is big business. It *always* works against
               the interest of the people.
            \_ Like Italy, for example.  Now there's a country with lots of
               little parties you don't want emulated here.  Stability is more
               important than getting to pick from 1 of 50 tiny parties that
               screw up the country.  Think *this* country is screwed up?
               Think the Demos and Repubs are bad?  Go check out any of the
               counties that don't have entrenched two party systems.  You'll
               be deeply awed at the wisdom of "The Founding Fathers".
            \_ you mean madison && co. Tommy J would have gatted Jimmy  on
               the spot if he had found out about the EC.  Anyway it's
               important to note that at one point in time there was the
               Democratic-Republican party - they weren't 2 parties until the
               Rad Repubs.
2000/10/19 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19519 Activity:very high
10/18   Does US have jurisdiction in Yemen?  Why is the FBI, a US law
        enforcement agency, conducting investigation on an attack occured in
        that country?
        \_ don't you know that the US has jurisdiction anywhere it wants?
           \_ Speak softly and carry a BIG stick (or an aircraft carrier)
           \_ Yeah, but I mean how do they justify it?
              \_ The aforementioned big stick.
        \_ Presumably, the excuse would be that terrorist attacks as an
           external threat may reflect tendencies that can easily become
           internal threats. I doubt the govt of Yemen gives them much
        \_ A lot of governments "invite" the FBI in when US installations
           or large numbers of Americans get whacked.  While this is probably
           mainly to avoid pissing off the US, it makes sense, as the FBI
           is probably the most technically advanced and experienced
           investigative outfit in the world, like it or not.  -John
           \_ Scotland Yard.
              \_ oh yeah! when was the last time you heard they investigated
                 something big without having to resort to the Big Brother/
                 national DNA database that the Brits have? Using a computer
                 to match DNA samples is easy. Using tried and true
                 investigation methods is not - like most things British
                 it's past its time or is way overrated
              \_ Scotland Yard?  The guys *still* haven't resolved the
                 Lockerbie terrorism.  Sherlock is dead.
2000/10/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19443 Activity:very high
        \_ people who follow sports have A)too much time on their hands
           B)to be dumb to want to follow those overpriced/overpaid
             franchises/players C)to truly ignorant if any of it matters
           \_ He could be a RED CHINESE COMMIE PIG who hates americans,
              OF FRENCH ORIGIN who feels that the inferior boorish yankees
              are diluting the pristine culture of that most favored of
              nations, France.
        \_ damn yengeese!
        \_ yank yank yank
        \_ I hate the metes too
           \_ you mean the NY Mets are not your favorite squadron?
        \_ I hate the Raiduhs!
        \_ I hate Arizona State.
        \_ I hate team sports and their fanatics.
2000/9/24-25 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19317 Activity:high
9/21    The Czech Republic is not a third world nation.  It is a
        \_ % webster "third world"
           3 : the aggregate of the underdeveloped nations of the world
        developing nation with $11700 per capita GDP, growth rate of -0.5%
        (1999), and an external debt of 24.3 billion.  USA's per capita
        GDP is $33900.  Malaysia's per capita GDP is $10700.

        international no-car day!  see http://www.carbusters.ecn.cz
        \_ *.cz?  Like they'd miss their cars for a day in the Czech republic.
           I'd like to see something like International Fix Your Fucked Up
           Third World Country Day coming from a place like that instead.
           \_ Do you know your geography? The Czech republic is a modern
              European nation. Just because it's considered Eastern Europe
              doesn't mean that it's a Third World country.
                \_ It's not a third world country.  It's just a poor,
                   decrepit ex-Soviet-bloc nation suffering from 40+ years
                   of commie mismanagement.  Otherwise, quite nice.  -John
                   \_ What's the definition of third world then?  I thought
                      "thrid world" is the PC term to describe poor countries.
                        \_ "First" or "Old" World = Europe.  Don't forget that
                           Bohemia/western Czechoslovakia/Czech republic has
                           historically been a political and cultural center.
                           "New" World = Americas.  "Third" World was some
                           mid-20th-century play on that to describe all
                           the second-rate backwaters discovered afterwards
                           with economic problems.  -John
                           \_ % webster "first world"
                              Etymology:      after third world
                              Date:   1967
                              : the highly developed industrialized nations
                              often considered the westernized countries of
                              the world
                              apart from getting the order of usage wrong (i.e.
                              third world -> first world rather than the other
                              way around) and being ignorantly eurocentric,
                              you're correct.
                                \_ At least I speak a FOREIGN LANGUAGE, am
                                   not INCORRIGIBLY FAT, and DON'T EVER
                                   WATCH JERRY SPRINGER.  -John
                                   \_ perhaps.  but at least i knew what
                                      "first world" meant.
                                      \_ No, you know how to have your mom
                                         read a dictionary to you, and you
                                         obviously have no clue about what
                                         countries are industrialized and
                                         developed.  -John
                                         \_ you made ad hominem attacks, good.
                                            but you should throw in Hitler and
                                            the Nazis in there to distract from
                                            the fact that you had no idea what
                                            first and third world meant when
                                            you started shooting off your mouth
                                            on motd.
              \_ then it doesn't sound like he has a problem with geography,
                 does it? it's more of an economics deficiency he has.
                 \_ No deficiency.  Have you seen it?  I think you need to
                    check on what the word "modern" means.  CZ is a third
                    world country.  Just because they're vaguely white doesn't
                    make it a modern western nation.  They're little different
                    from any South American banana republic.  It isn't just
                    blacks, hispanics and other non-whites that live in the
                    Third World.  Thank you both for trying though.
                    \_ Have you ever travelled outside the Bay Area?  -John
        \_ Nobody noticed.  Some cities had even worse traffic.  Barely
           anyone even knew it was happening until they heard on the news
           what a flop it was this evening.  -John
           \_ Cars are here to stay (at least until transporters become
              generally available).
        \_ Chech know a thing or two about mechanical engineering and cars.
        Pop quiz: which Western car compay buy out entire Tatra design team,
        why they did it and what they are working on now?
        As far as being 'vaguely' white which I take as they don't quite
        fit a canonical definition of white, how to do explain
        disproporationate representation of Czech chicks among the ranks
        of 'supermodels'?       -muchandr
        \_ Volkswagen, right?  They bought Skoda too.  -John
               \_ Volkswagen is a joke. In fact all european cars are jokes.
                  The only car manufacturers that matter are American and
                  Japanese. With Japanese you get quality, with American you
                  get power. - Proud owner of a 260 HP Lincoln that routinely
                  smokes the finest that Europe has to offer.
                  \_ Bring it over here.  By the time you get up to 10mph
                     I'm halfway over the horizon, you coal-burning hairy
                     tractor-driving barbarian.  -John
                     \_ I don't want your drool lowering the value of my
                        car. Filthy commoners and thier COMMUNIST cars.
           \_ that proves they are 'vaguely'! Per the current fashion trend
           \_ When was the last time you bought a Czech car?  I don't see
              many trambant dealers around.
                \_ Moron.  Trabants were East German and they're a massive
                   cult object (like VW bugs.)  Tatra were/are a Russian truck
                   design bureau.  And Skoda (Czech) is about as big as
                   Saturn in the US.  -John
        \_ Czech supermodels are hot and slutty.
2000/9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19315 Activity:very high
9/21    The Czech Republic is not a third world nation.  It is a
        developing nation with $11700 per capita GDP, growth rate of -0.5%
        (1999), and an external debt of 24.3 billion.  USA's per capita
        GDP is $33900.  Malaysia's per capita GDP is $10700.

        international no-car day!  see http://www.carbusters.ecn.cz
        \_ *.cz?  Like they'd miss their cars for a day in the Czech republic.
           I'd like to see something like International Fix Your Fucked Up
           Third World Country Day coming from a place like that instead.
           \_ Do you know your geography? The Czech republic is a modern
              European nation. Just because it's considered Eastern Europe
              doesn't mean that it's a Third World country.
                \_ It's not a third world country.  It's just a poor,
                   decrepit ex-Soviet-bloc nation suffering from 40+ years
                   of commie mismanagement.  Otherwise, quite nice.  -John
                   \_ What's the definition of third world then?  I thought
                      "thrid world" is the PC term to describe poor countries.
                        \_ "First" or "Old" World = Europe.  Don't forget that
                           Bohemia/western Czechoslovakia/Czech republic has
                           historically been a political and cultural center.
                           "New" World = Americas.  "Third" World was some
                           mid-20th-century play on that to describe all
                           the second-rate backwaters discovered afterwards
                           with economic problems.  -John
                           \_ % webster "first world"
                              Etymology:      after third world
                              Date:   1967
                              : the highly developed industrialized nations
                              often considered the westernized countries of
                              the world
                              apart from getting the order of usage wrong (i.e.
                              third world -> first world rather than the other
                              way around) and being ignorantly eurocentric,
                              you're correct.
              \_ then it doesn't sound like he has a problem with geography,
                 does it? it's more of an economics deficiency he has.
                 \_ No deficiency.  Have you seen it?  I think you need to
                    check on what the word "modern" means.  CZ is a third
                    world country.  Just because they're vaguely white doesn't
                    make it a modern western nation.  They're little different
                    from any South American banana republic.  It isn't just
                    blacks, hispanics and other non-whites that live in the
                    Third World.  Thank you both for trying though.
                    \_ Have you ever travelled outside the Bay Area?  -John
        \_ Nobody noticed.  Some cities had even worse traffic.  Barely
           anyone even knew it was happening until they heard on the news
           what a flop it was this evening.  -John
           \_ Cars are here to stay (at least until transporters become
              generally available).
        \_ Chech know a thing or two about mechanical engineering and cars.
        Pop quiz: which Western car compay buy out entire Tatra design team,
        why they did it and what they are working on now?
        As far as being 'vaguely' white which I take as they don't quite
        fit a canonical definition of white, how to do explain
        disproporationate representation of Czech chicks among the ranks
        of 'supermodels'?       -muchandr
        \_ Volkswagen, right?  They bought Skoda too.  -John
               \_ Volkswagen is a joke. In fact all european cars are jokes.
                  The only car manufacturers that matter are American and
                  Japanese. With Japanese you get quality, with American you
                  get power. - Proud owner of a 260 HP Lincoln that routinely
                  smokes the finest that Europe has to offer.
           \_ that proves they are 'vaguely'! Per the current fashion trend
           \_ When was the last time you bought a Czech car?  I don't see
              many trambant dealers around.
                \_ Moron.  Trabants were East German and they're a massive
                   cult object (like VW bugs.)  Tatra were/are a Russian truck
                   design bureau.  And Skoda (Czech) is about as big as
                   Saturn in the US.  -John
        \_ Czech supermodels are hot and slutty.
2000/9/21-24 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:19303 Activity:high
9/21    international no-car day!  see http://www.carbusters.ecn.cz
        \_ *.cz?  Like they'd miss their cars for a day in the Czech republic.
           I'd like to see something like International Fix Your Fucked Up
           Third World Country Day coming from a place like that instead.
           \_ Do you know your geography? The Czech republic is a modern
              European nation. Just because it's considered Eastern Europe
              doesn't mean that it's a Third World country.
                \_ It's not a third world country.  It's just a poor,
                   decrepit ex-Soviet-bloc nation suffering from 40+ years
                   of commie mismanagement.  Otherwise, quite nice.  -John
                   \_ What's the definition of third world then?  I thought
                      "thrid world" is the PC term to describe poor countries.
                        \_ "First" or "Old" World = Europe.  Don't forget that
                           Bohemia/western Czechoslovakia/Czech republic has
                           historically been a political and cultural center.
                           "New" World = Americas.  "Third" World was some
        \_ Will this finally make the LINUX! RIDE BIKE! people happy?
           \_ no but it will make lotus notes save the universe.
                           mid-20th-century play on that to describe all
                           the second-rate backwaters discovered afterwards
                           with economic problems.  -John
                           \_ % webster "first world"
                              Etymology:      after third world
                              Date:   1967
                              : the highly developed industrialized nations
                              often considered the westernized countries of
                              the world
                              apart from getting the order of usage wrong (i.e.
                              third world -> first world rather than the other
                              way around) and being ignorantly eurocentric,
                              you're correct.
              \_ then it doesn't sound like he has a problem with geography,
                 does it? it's more of an economics deficiency he has.
                 \_ No deficiency.  Have you seen it?  I think you need to
                    check on what the word "modern" means.  CZ is a third
                    world country.  Just because they're vaguely white doesn't
                    make it a modern western nation.  They're little different
                    from any South American banana republic.  It isn't just
                    blacks, hispanics and other non-whites that live in the
                    Third World.  Thank you both for trying though.
                    \_ Have you ever travelled outside the Bay Area?  -John
        \_ Nobody noticed.  Some cities had even worse traffic.  Barely
           anyone even knew it was happening until they heard on the news
           what a flop it was this evening.  -John
           \_ Cars are here to stay (at least until transporters become
              generally available).
        \_ Chech know a thing or two about mechanical engineering and cars.
        Pop quiz: which Western car compay buy out entire Tatra design team,
        why they did it and what they are working on now?
        As far as being 'vaguely' white which I take as they don't quite
        fit a canonical definition of white, how to do explain
        disproporationate representation of Czech chicks among the ranks
        of 'supermodels'?       -muchandr
        \_ Volkswagen, right?  They bought Skoda too.  -John
               \_ Volkswagen is a joke. In fact all european cars are jokes.
                  The only car manufacturers that matter are American and
                  Japanese. With Japanese you get quality, with American you
                  get power. - Proud owner of a 260 HP Lincoln that routinely
                  smokes the finest that Europe has to offer.
           \_ that proves they are 'vaguely'! Per the current fashion trend
           \_ When was the last time you bought a Czech car?  I don't see
              many trambant dealers around.
                \_ Moron.  Trabants were East German and they're a massive
                   cult object (like VW bugs.)  Tatra were/are a Russian truck
                   design bureau.  And Skoda (Czech) is about as big as
                   Saturn in the US.  -John
2000/8/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:18924 Activity:high
8/8     What's the rule in pronuciating Jewish names? For example, is
        Epstein pronouced as ep-stine or ep-steen? Is Feldsenstein
        pronouced as feldsen-stine or feldsen-steen?
        \_ In original Yiddish, it's pronounced like English -stine or -shtine
           (the choice between the two depending on dialect/preference);
           however, many Americans with these names have long since forgotten
           what Yiddish is, and some will pronounce it as -steen as well.
           So use the former by default, unless you've heard the
           person in question pronounce it himself. AFAIK, the same goes
           for German surnames with the same suffix.   -alexf
           \_ thats because "yiddish" basically IS german.  aka
               "Hebrew with a german accent"
        \_ there are jews all over the world, speaking probably over 100
           languages, including chinese. to attempt to find consistency accross
           aall these languages' names is impossible.
           \_ there are jews all over the world but they are mostly two kinds
              left these days, and of those two the eastern european jew is
              the most prominent, especially in America.  Stop being such an
              ass.  -jewboy
        \_ Racist.  That's not funny.
           \_ http://www.icebox.com
           \_ SCHNELL!  JUDEN!
              \_ Yay!  Holocaust jokes!  Fucking idiot.
2000/7/22 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:18753 Activity:high
7/21    What's the name of that sexy French looking CS girl who worked in
        Barbara Hightower's office back in 1995-1996?
        \_ Marie Paxton
        \_ define "French looking" please
                \_ Duh.  Watch a movie or travel.  Don't try to be PC.  The
                   idiotic correctness thing was dead before you were taking
                   your PSATs.
                   \_   Actually, PC wasn't in yet when i was taking my PSATs,
                        I certainly wasn't trying to be PC with my question,
                        and I've spent time in france and seen plenty of
                        french movies.
                        \_ Then you should know the answer.
        \_ Huh? There was a sexy TA for cs188 awhile back and cs170 last sem.
           \_ If this is in reference to Xuqing Tian, you are one sick mofo
           \_ 170? You must be talking about Tracy Riggs.
              \_ HI PAOLO!
                \_ I love 172, 174. I love to study. I love academia. -paolo
2000/7/13-14 [Recreation/Travel, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:18659 Activity:moderate
7/13    I'm looking for a good resource for finding decent and cheap
        hostels/dorms in Europe (spec. Italy). Any recommendations?
        \_ Hostel International?
        \_ You can find a lot of info on the Web: the world Hostelling
           International Web site has a link to each country's national
           hostelling organization at http://www.iyhf.org/ihyf/world.html.
           Searching on Yahoo for <city name>+"Hostels" works, too.  Buy a
           copy of the _Let's Go Europe_ guidebook and use it to cross-check
           particular destinations you're interested in.  I've used this
           technique for 6 months so far, and it hasn't killed me yet.  (The
           _Let's Go_ guidebooks are for the "I'm a *really* cheap college
           student" crowd; Rick Steves and the Lonely Planet guidebooks are a
           step up, but still reasonably budget-oriented.) -- kahogan
        \_ I second the recommendation for Let's Go and Lonely Planet, they're
           both pretty high quality (I've used both very often.)  Also,
           maybe you can get some info from AIESEC (http://www.aiesec.org
           If you spend the $15 or so for one of their cards (assuming
           you're a student) you can get a lot of discounts on lodging and
           transportation.  -John
           \_ Oh yeah, the _Rough Guide_ books are also quite good.  -John
        \_ At least in the US I've found that the non Hostel International
           hostels were much more interesting than the associated ones.  But
           yah, you should go the hostel route.
2000/3/21-22 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:17814 Activity:very high
3/20    link:www.yale.edu/implicit/measure3.html
        I'm an Asian male with a strong automatic preference for blacks.
        Is there something wrong with me?
        \_ all that proved to me was I was incapable of remembering which
           key was associated with which keyword.
        \_ White male with weak auto pref. for blacks.  I also associate
           men and women equally with science, apparently.
            \_  apparently your subconscious is not very bright. (not due
                to the weak auto pref. for blacks due to the = men/women).
        \_ I'm a White male with a strong automatic preference for Asians.
           Especially if they happen to be female and hot.  Is there
           something wrong with me?
           something wrong with me?                             -aaron
                \_ me too!              -nickkral
                     \_ me three!  - sky
        \_ Damn rice chaser!
                \_ is that you jj?
        \_ The test is hokey. Definitely not "science" in my book.
           All it shows is the speed of building cognitive relations
           not your "implicit attitudes".. Well what can you expect
           from a liberal arts school like Yale, they have nothing
           better to do than shit like this.
           \_ every school has idiots doing pseudo science.  Yale just
              got 500 million dollars earmarked for expansion of the
              engineering and sciences and they are hiring like mad.  do
              you think berkeley should be judged by the chicano studies
              or sociology departments?
              \_ Do you have a link to this? I'm thinking about going there
                 for grad school in the fall.
        \_ Oh woe!  An online test with no proctor determines we're all evil
           racists!  What next?  I don't think these guys understand that
           what they _think_ they're testing for is not what they're _really_
           testing for.  Even the lower div. Cal psych classes do better than
           \_ I'm betting that the first section always starts with
              "white+good". Which automatically biases ALL takers.
                \_ which association comes up first definitely primes the
                   results.  doesn't seem like this test says anything at all.
              \_ it doesn't.  Not that the test isn't crap.  -aspo who
                 took a couple of tests several times and got way different
                 results each time.
                 \_ You can't take a test several times without 'ruining' the
                    results.  It also isn't appropriate to take a battery of
                    similar memory tests like this and expect valid results.
                    This is really basic psych/cogsci testing methodology and
                    I find it sad that a school like Yale can't get it right.
                    What does that say for the rest of the country's colleges?
                    \_ thankfully, not a goddamn thing.
                        \_ I hope you're right.
                           \_ Your neurotic pseudo-pessimistic generalizations
                              are annoying.  Please stop.
        \_ right, trust a psych experiment conducted by yale over the advice
        of a bunch of anonymous motd posters!
           \_ point being that this isn't an experiment conducted by anyone.
              this isn't a valid test method.  it isn't even bad science.  this
              is something down there with the astrology section of the comics.
        \_ The story about this on Dateline pointed out that just as
            interesting as the results was people's reaction to them.
            \_  Woo hoo!  Thus proving their test group consisted mostly of
                self-"correct"-ing guilty whites.  I'm white and I'm damned
                proud of it.  We built this country.  Blacks are killing it
                from the inner cities outwards.
                \_ It's the chinks that built this country, so fuck you.
                   Go back to Europe white barbarian.  Long live Mao.
                   \_ Shut up, white boy!
                   \_ The Jews built this country.  The Jews built every
                      country.  They are the God's CHOSEN people.  AND they
                      have all the gold.  Again.
                        \_ Not "again".  "Still" is the word you're looking
                           for.   -Mark of Kings
                   \_ What a load of crap!  No slant ever did anything worth
                      half a damn for this country!
                      \_ What did you personally do to build this country
                         besides mouthing off your racist trash?  And
                         by the way, stop using Yahoo.
                         \_ I beat slants like you into place and what's Yahoo
                            got to do with anything?
                      \_ are all CSUA users like this?
                         \_ No.  Only about half the CSUA is slants.
                            \_ What did you personally do to build this
                               country besides mouthing off your racist
                                \_ Already told you, slant boy.
            Most whites felt guilty over preffering whites, but the blacks
            who preferred blacks attributed it to racial pride and overcoming
            the negative images of blacks that pervade american culture/media.
            \_ That's about political correctness.  Sigh.
            \_ SUBTHREAD SUMMARY: Too many sodans have time on their hands to
               troll aimlessly.
               \_ You're an idiot.  Your summary sucks.  Stop 'summarizing'
                  humorous subthreads with your inadequate summaries.
1999/11/9 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:16854 Activity:high
8/11    you konw, you americans are strange. why is the it the month first
        then the day? confusing since the month changes only 12 times, but
        the day everyday.. wouldn't it make more sense this way?
        \_ You French people are strange using military time rather than
           twelve hour clocks.
           \_ military time makes SO MUCH more sense. DST is also the
              dumbest thing this country has... that and GWB running for prez
           \_ MTF!  The only thing wrong with DST is that we end it in OcT.
              We should be tacking on more hours until we can eat dinner at
              10pm and still watch the sun set.  You don't understand this
              because your freakish Euro sun doesn't set till 10pm in the
              summer already.  BTW, I'd hate it if my files were dated by
              day and then month.
                \_ Military time makes sense if YOU'RE IN THE MILITARY!  I'm
                   not and quite happy with my AM/PM.  Thanks for the chance
                   to convert to a different yet still completely arbitrary
                   'standard' for marking time.  If you knew anything about
                   this country, you'd know why DST makes perfect sense.
        \_ I dunno about this one, but some of th US's bizarre habits
           date from right after the Revolution.  Supposedly, we were
           trying to be different from the British.
           \_ No.  We continued to follow British standards such as feet and
              pounds and which side of the road.  The British changed later.
              Why do completely ignorant people try to answer simple questions
              on the motd?  Oh yes, it's the motd.  Silly of me.  As far as
              the original question: We don't say "12th of November, 1999".
              We say, "November 12th, 1999".  This turns into months first.
              So, no, you foreign fuck.  It doesn't make more sense to use
              your ill conceived notions of what makes sense.  I suppose you
              might think it makes sense to appease terrorists too.
1999/9/28-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:16613 Activity:low
9/28    If my passport is stolen while I am traveling in Europe what do I have
        to do besides reporting the incident to the local authorities and the
        US embassy in the country?  And, will I be able to quickly (like in a
        day or two) to get a temporary passport to continue on with my travel
        around continent or will my trip be screwed over?
        \_ I had mine stolen in Poland. It took three weeks to get a new
           passport and visa. Just don't let anyone steal the thing.
                \_ my friend got her passport stolen in Paris.  the experience
                        will probably
        \_ My mom got hers stolen in China.  Really messy situation.  You should
           be worried about whether you can get back to the US sometime soon.
           The bureaucracy you have to deal is going to take a long time if you
           don't know the right people.
                \_ Crime?!  In China?!  This would never happen.
1999/5/22-25 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15858 Activity:low
5/22    Are modem standards the same between US and UK?
        \_ Yes, but the phone plugs might be not. -muchandr
 ___  ___  ___   ___  __  __ ___ _______   _  _____ _  _   _   _  _  ___
/ __|/ _ \|   \ / _ \|  \/  |_ _|_  / __| | |/ / __| || | /_\ | \| |/ __|
\__ \ (_) | |) | (_) | |\/| || | / /| _|  | ' < (__| __ |/ _ \| .` | (_ |
|___/\___/|___/ \___/|_|  |_|___/___|___| |_|\_\___|_||_/_/ \_\_|\_|\___|
           \_ The plugs in UK are wider.  You can buy phone cords that have
              a US plug at one end and a UK plug at the other.  I forgot
              where I got mine.  -- yuen
1999/5/20 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15844 Activity:high
5/19    Wow. At least _some_ legislators don't think that key escrow
        is a good thing.
        \_ Meanwhile, US Senate passes bill against bomb-making info
           \_ Any info links on that? Also isn't that against
              1st amendment or something?
              \_ Knee jerk over-reaction to the columbine hs shootings.
                 Sure it's whittling away your rights, you don't really need
                 them anyway. They just get in the way of the government
                 protecting you from yourself.
1999/5/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15804 Activity:insanely high
5/13    A Tomlinson published a list of MI6 agents' name on a US based web,
        according to AP.  But I could not locate the site.
        \_ Richard Tomlinson
        \_ Isn't it down? http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/cybercrime/features/story/0,3700,2258075,00.html
        \_ http://jya.com/MI6dir.htm
           if Bond were real, he'd be pissing in his pants now
           \_ Ooops. I suspect some people are about to meet with
              accidents/suicide. Either that, or it's the end of the
              UK monarchy.
              But either way, tomlinson is a traitor for exposing
              the operatives who were not directly related to the
                \_ A traitor to the british, sure, but not to us directly.
              to police officers and armed forces personnels?
                   Anyway, he'll soon have an accident and that'll be that.
                   And oh yeah we need to censor the internet too.
           \_ This jerk is full of bullshit.  How can he compare MI6 agents
              to police officers in general and armed forces personnels?
              Would he publish a "list of current undercover police officers"?
              Why didn't he identify himself "I'm an MI6 agent!" when he was
              still working there???  I think he just wants to get rich from
              publishing books later.  I wish other MI6 agents kill him soon,
              very soon.
                \_ Why do you care?
        \_ I thought the British intelligence was called MI5.  When did it
           become MI6?  And what does "MI" stand for?
           \_ MI5 is like the FBI. MI6 is the like the CIA
                \_ Military Intelligence, dumbass.
                        \_ Your mother taught you to speak that way?  You're
                           a foul mouthed child idiot.  (Yes, my mother did
                           teach _me_ to speak that way)
                                \_ No, yermom taught me everything.
                                   \_ Do others actually find yermom jokes
                                funny in any way or do they just use them out
                                of habit.  I never really saw any humor value
                                in it beyond the obvious repetition.  It's
                                rather grade schoolish.  Have I missed out on
                                some vital bit of the High Art of Humor?  I'm
                                guessing not on this one.
1999/4/1-2 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15680 Activity:kinda low 50%like:15676
3/31    I am interested in learning german. does anyone know of any cheap
        \_ hook up with a German guy/gal !
                \_ "Hi!  You look Germanic and if you're a native fluent
                    speaker who yearns to teach an eager younger computer
                    scientist your father tongue and an active interest in
                    getting laid on the side, I'd like to take you out!  How
                    about it?  Next Thursday around 2am in the WEB?"
                    \_ if you get more responses than you can handle, please
                       let me know . . . I'd like to learn German too!
                       \_ ah yes, the ins and outs of adult german...
        classes in the east bay or elsewhere for basic german? adult
        schools, jc, etc...
1999/3/31-4/4 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15676 Activity:high 50%like:15680
3/31    I am interested in learning german. does anyone know of any cheap
                           \_ hook up with a German guy/gal !
        classes in the east bay or elsewhere for basic german? adult
        schools, jc, etc...
        \_ hook up with a German guy/gal !
                \_ "Hi!  You look Germanic and if you're a native fluent
                    speaker who yearns to teach an eager younger computer
                    scientist your father tongue and an active interest in
                    getting laid on the side, I'd like to take you out!  How
                    about it?  Next Thursday around 2am in the WEB?"
                    \_ if you get more responses than you can handle, please
                       let me know . . . I'd like to learn German too!
                       \_ ah yes, the ins and outs of adult german...
               \_ Learn from me, you can lose 20lbs in one week!!!!
           Dude, why would you want to speak German.  It's a horrible
           language.  In fact, it's not a language, it's a throat disease.
           Trust me, I'm a native speaker.  When you argue with a German
           about this, they'll inevitably try to convince you of how
           beautiful and elegant it is by pointing to the same three
           or four books over and over again.  It's ponderous, ugly-
           sounding, and overly complex.  Learn a nice language, or
           something useful, like Spanish or French or even Italian.
           Maybe something cool like Russian or Chinese or Japanese.  But
           don't put yourself through this trouble;  German is awful, with
           the culture to go with it.  Aside from that, I'd be glad to
           help out with anything.  -John
                \_ I love to sodomize you in the WEB at 2am, John.
                                        - owner of http://www.mybigdick.com
           \_ Will you meet me in the WEB at 2am with some sex on the side?
                \_ you oldtimers are showing your age.  there has been no WEB
                   for the last 4 years or so.
                        \- What happened to the WEB???
                                \_ They filled it with Macs and turned the
                                   OCF end into a Calculus-on-Computers lab
                                   for Math 1a/b.
           \_ I love John.  He's the bomb.  But I also love German. Es macht
                kuhl.  Ja, stimmt Beavis!  Feuer! Feuer!  -space nazi
                \_ They're dubbing South Park into Kraut.  -John
           \_ What about Rilke, dude?
                \_ Rainer Maria Rilke is about the epitome of
                   hitleriffically funny, light-hearted teutonic
                   literature.  And no, you CAN'T sodomize me in the WEB,
                   I'm immune to such things.  I kicked Roy out of pure
                   excitement while netsex-h0zing as a freshman at 2am;
                   he was sleeping under the table, and I thought he
                   was a backpack.  You can't touch me.  Nyah.  -John
1999/2/23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15465 Activity:kinda low
2/22    This is not a troll.  How do you say in French
                "This (that) is (a shitty) life"?
        and "pretentious" or "pseudo-cultured", say to describe somone
        who like to throw in a few french words in conversations.
        \_ literally, something like "c'est la vie de merde"
           \_ sounds about right.
1999/1/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15307 Activity:kinda low
1/27    I just turned on the radio to KCBS and I heard a sentense which
        apparently is the end of a piece of news: "Pluto might not be a
        planet, but it has been for a lot of time."  What's going on?  Is
        there some new space discovery that shows that Pluto is not a
        planet?  Thx.  -- yuen
        \_ http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9901/20/puny.pluto
           \_ It's all poltics. Disney didn't pay off the right astronomers.
1999/1/21-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15274 Activity:nil
1/21    http://www.cnnfn.com/worldbiz/europe/wires/9901/21/lego_wg
        Lego loses moeny for the first time.
        \_ I hate losing moeny, there is so little of it as it is...
1998/12/30 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:15149 Activity:nil
12/28   Sorry for the length of the URL.  This is what it is.  Anyway,
        "German kills pitbull with his bare hands".  Don't mess with those
        German dudes....
1998/9/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:14651 Activity:high
9/22    News headline: "Europe Fears For US Democracy After Clinton Videos"
        \_ Remember what I warned you about democracey? - a communist.
                \_ Like this country should give a flying fart's fuck what
                the European's think about democracy or anything else for
                that matter.  Can anyone here possibly imagine how completely
                fucked up this country would be if we ran it the same way the
                Euroidiots _try_ to "run" their countries?
                \_ See, that's cause we put all of our stupid people into
                   journalism and politics, then let them get in fights
                   with the Americans, while we're busy driving good cars,
                   having sex with gorgeous slutty European chicks (the
                   miniskirts got better since they started shaving their
                   legs;  do _your_ women wear miniskirts?) and drinking
                   better beer.  -John
                \_ Let's have another Patriotism Flamewar!  Fun for the whole
1998/3/24 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:13856 Activity:insanely high
3/24    I know some Indian friends who are BIG AND BUFF like football players,
        and some even have blue/hazzle eyes. I sware they almost look white!!!
                                                 \_ swear
        Why are a lot of Indians like that? (this is a serious question!)
        \_ Mutations as a result of the massive radiation and pollution
           released by British experiments on the fusion reactor from an
           alien starship that crash-landed in the Ganges River valley during
           the winter of 1945.
           \_ That's right.  In fact, the reason that they decided to make
              India independent wasn't Gandhi . . . During the course of their
              experiments, they created a hole in the space-time continuum
              that threatened to SWALLOW THE ENTIRE BRITISH EMPIRE WHOLE!
              The only way to avoid this was to make sure that India was no
              longer a part of the British Empire.  That way, if the hole
              expanded beyond their control, India would be lost, but the
              Empire would be safe.  Hail Brittania!
                \_ is it just me or does the motd get dumber every day? -aspo
                   \_Would you like to see Brittania rule again, my friend?
                     All you have to do is follow the worms.
                      \_ Brittania rules the waves!
1998/1/28 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:13574 Activity:high
1/27    whom is by no means a dead form. it's the indirect object form --aaron
        \_ Exactly.  It's dead.
           \_ Sign, so we can mock you when you use an indirect object  --pld
                \_ Indirect objects aren't dead in general.  Just the overly
                   haughty and elitist "whom" which sounds like a wannabe
                   British Royal.  This is America, speak American, God damn
2022/06/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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