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2018/07/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
 7/22

 2010/3/24-4/14 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53759 Activity:nil 3/24 Global warming solves political dispute: http://www.csua.org/u/qcz Can't argue which country owns the island when it no longer exists. \_ Global warming is also responsible for human civilization. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Don't worry though, I'm sure some geo engineering will solve the pesky problem of western civ.
 2010/1/19-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53639 Activity:nil 1/19 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100118/ap_on_re_us/us_us_haiti_gates "(US ambassador to haiti) Merten ... described downtown Port-au- Prince, the capital city, as resembling "Tokyo at the end of the Second World War." What kind of stupid remark is that!? He could have said London or Paris or any other city on the Allies side. "Hey Haitians, your place looks like that other city that we once bombed the hell out of." \_ are you an idiot? London and Paris didn't have the crap bombed out of them at the end of the second world war. -tom \_ "The Blitz and other bombing by the German Luftwaffe during World War II killed over 30,000 Londoners and destroyed large tracts of housing and other buildings across London" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Late_modern_and_contemporary \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo "...the most destructive bombing raid in history." Paris was not damaged at all during WWII. \_ OK, thanks for answering my question. ("yes.") -tom
 2009/8/17-9/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53275 Activity:nil 8/17 After Civil War reenactment, there is now Vietnam Way reenactment! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_us/us_re_enacting_vietnam \_ Unbelievable! Where are they going to get all the "gooks"? Also I'm really surprised that of all the war reenactments, there hasn't been a nut case with loaded munition shooting at people.... or has there?
 2009/7/23-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53187 Activity:nil 7/23 Click fraud rampant. Good for AdSense owners though! http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/23/sure-the-us-has-a-lot-of-click-fraud-but-at-least-were-not-vietnam
2018/07/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
 7/22

 2009/5/26-6/2 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53046 Activity:low 5/26 "Photo of US soldier in pink boxers turns iconic" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090522/ap_on_re_us/us_media_pink_boxers Not a single mention about wearing a red shirt in a battlefield screams "Shoot me!" and endangers one's comrades. He should have covered it up or taken it off at the first opportunity. \_ And how much war experiance do you have? Hint, playing Red Alert doesn't count. \_ Nor does watching "Star Trek". \_ Dood, medics have to wear red crosses on their arms. \_ Supposedly enemies shouldn't shoot the medics, so the red crosses scream "DON'T shoot me!" \_ Let me tell you, if I ever actually made it into combat, the first thing I would have done is strip off that stupid arm band. -former medic \_ I heard that non-maimed army men get laid a lot because they have many manly stories to tell and ladies love their strong manly presence. Is this true? Is it? \_ I don't know, but I got laid a lot in the co-ops. I don't think it had anything to do with being ex-army, but perhaps all that PT helped give me muscles. \_ No, it's just that most women in the co-ops were easy. I'd be afraid to sleep with most of them. \_ Bill Cosby has a great routine on being a Corpsman in Korea. First lesson: the North Koreans do not Vietnam. First lesson: the North Vietnamese do not recognize the Geneva Convention and so will actively target Corpsmen. Cue a bunch of Corpsmen furiously scrubbing the red cross off their helmets with Brillo pads.
 2008/12/7-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:52190 Activity:nil 12/6 worst prank call ever http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5302549.ece \_ /facepalm. These guys are really on edge. \_ worst in that it didn't actually get them to finish the deal bout time we got some results for all the money with give them
 2008/12/5-10 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:52182 Activity:nil 12/5 asians are bad bad bad http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/04/BA8D14II0B.DTL \_ Don't give your Myspace info to shady Vietnamese dudes \_ Gee is a Cantonese last name. Are you racist or something? \_ all look same http://tinyurl.com/6bd32k \_ You know, if only she had a CCW permit and a gun... -chico dude
 2008/11/27-12/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:52120 Activity:nil 11/27 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601091&sid=a96.kD6rKZM0&refer=india http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,458270,00.html 101 dead in India. Word of advice: don't tell gunmen that you're an American/Britain. Say that you're a Canadian, and that you never supported Bush's war. Seriously, you didn't actually support his war right? It's aboot time that I practice my Canadian accent. \_ http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/oct/31bpo1.htm \- "They have grenades, they have AK47s...they have 100kg of chicken." \_ And some of them are ambiguously gay!!! \_ http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/king.chopra.mumbai \_ "C[anadians] die a thousand deaths. The valiant taste of death but once." -jcaesar
 2008/9/23-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:51270 Activity:moderate 9/22 "Pakistanis say suspected US drone shot down" http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_drone One fewer friend, one more foe. \_ Isn't this what Obama said he'd do? \_ No, but why let facts get in the way. \_ Obama or Osama? Are we really supposed to belive that Obama said that he was going to start shooting at US aircraft? \_ i think pp was referring to Obama saying he would go into Pakistan without its permission to get Osama \_ If you want to be depressed, this article in the NYTimes claims that Pakistan endlessly trolls us into giving them billions while they fund the Taliban. Let me repeat. We give Pakistan money. They funnel a large portion to the Taliban in return for the Taliban leaving Pakistan alone. But lately the crazy portion \- and a large portion is funneled to the Army's "parallel economy" ... while not quite an african kleptocracy or saudi level concentration at the top, it's not a normal state. it's also a glarine example of "talk/ideology" is cheap in politics and how it is the amoral realm of calculation [in re: india]. \_ Further complicating things is that nearly all Pakistanis have at least one relative in the Army. The "parallel economy" flows both ways. of the Taliban are too difficult to control and they have been suicide bombing inside of Pakistan. This article is an excellent read, but it might drive you to drink: http://tinyurl.com/4npby9 \_ http://www.fas.org/irp/world/pakistan/isi \_ Maybe Pakistan's military should do something other than stand around like pussies. The reason they don't is that Pakistanis are sympathetic to the Taliban. "Controlling the Taliban" isn't on the To Do list. \_ The tribal regions have never been under the control of the Army or the Govt. They're pretty much autonomous, which is why a) you hear plenty of horror stories about primitive tribal law (e.g., rape as punishment), and b) the tribes have made deals with the Taleban where beneficial to the tribes. \_ Now is a good time to remedy that. People should be registered, there should be checkpoints, heavy weapons should be confiscated, the border should be watched more closely, and documents issued/checked. This might involve going house to house in each village. Build more permanent bases in the region. That is how the US would handle it. Once the machine guns and RPGs are off the streets and the foreigners have been arrested or cleared \_ wow. wow. You know it's easier to get weapons than food & clean water in those regions right? \_ Your point? You can't go in and build dams and roads and other federally funded projects when there are hostile morons roaming around with RPGs. Cleaning up the mess that exists there and imposing law is the first step to having food and water instead of AK-47's. then they can live somewhat normal lives again, but not until then. Impose a curfew and take every male over 16 into custody (temporarily) if you have to. \_ wow this is so idiotic, my god, you're an idiot. \_ I agree. Lawless tribal areas are so much better for US, Europe, and Pakistan than having some sort of federal oversight. \_ http://glumbert.com/media/gunmarket \_ excellent video on The Gun Bazaar of Pakistan. Thanks for sharing the video! \_ good video, proves that the "round up everyone evil" guy above is stupid. \_ No, it's proof that the government needs to regulate these weapons just like ours does. \_ Yeah, that worked great in Somalia, Iraq, Vietnam, etc... \_ Working pretty well in Iraq and Vietnam wasn't ever really lawless. Somalia was a token effort.
 2008/9/12-19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:51153 Activity:low 9/12 Perhaps it is a War with Pakistan that is the October Surprise: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_13 This seems kind of stupid, especially since Pakistan has nukes. \_ Given that we know the problem with Pakistan and nukes, can you think of why there might be a reason to do this anyway? \_ There's never a reason for war. -liberal \_ So civil war and ww2 were a waste of time? \_ The GOP is behind in the polls? \_ The GOP is behind the polls? \- war is a "continuation of policy by other means" ... i dont think the us has policy goals w.r.t. pakistan which require "going to war" at the moment. rather it is a case of the us just ignoring pakistan's sovereignty, cf. Melian Dialog: "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." of course this is an interesting norm for the us to push ... say while lecturing russian about georgia, or in the future if say india decides they need to attack inside pakistan based on goals relating to india's kashmir policy [although this may be better deterred by nukes]. pakistan was never the us's friend and the us not taking india's side for many years shows how cheap political rhetoic and ideology is [although to be expected in the rhetoric and ideology is [although to be expected in the anarchic international system]. \_ Do you know what a casus belli is? \- yes, i do. do you know what "proechein/proschema" means? (thucydides >> grotius, waltzer, augustine etc). anyway, there is CB/normative, CB/propaganda and CB/empirical. anyway, the point is "casus belli/normative aka "ius ad bellum" has changed over time" (as has "ius in bello") ... material resources, security dilemma, religious conversion etc. the US/bush doctrine partly has been controversial because it suggests a change in casus belli/normative. as was say the monroe doctrine introducing [sic] the idea of a "sphere of influence". of course, i'm only guessing about "what is your point" ... \_ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_10 \_ http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ocw7w Pakistan is going to start shooting back, which kind of puts a hole in your theory that they just have to put up with our shenanigans. \_ So what if Pakistan has nukes? I don't think they want to play that game with USA. USA spent a lot of time and money during the cold war planning engagements against an enemy "with nukes". \_ I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. The government is very shakey there right now and it is not out of the question that we could end up with a bunch of Muslim Brotherhood types running that country. It is kind of hard to tell how they would react to their territorial sovereignty being violated like that.
 2008/8/28-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50993 Activity:nil 8/28 Solzhenitsyn's Harvard Address from 1978. Quite amazing, I'd never read it. http://csua.org/u/m82 \_ do you agree with it, or is it an interesting curiosity to you? (it appears to support gw bush!) "a decline in courage has been considered the beginning of the end" "people also have the right not to know, and it is a much more valuable one" "socialism of any type and shade leads to a total destruction" "politicians who signed the hasty Vietnam capitulation seemingly gave America a carefree breathing pause; however, a hundredfold Vietnam now looms" "It is not possible that assessment of the President's performance be reduced to the question of how much money one makes or of unlimited availability of gasoline. Only voluntary, inspired self-restraint can raise man above the world stream of materialism." \_ Only if you read it selectivly and with blinders on. And now I see from a Google search that seems to be a favorite talking point on the right wing blogs these days. \_ Actually I wasn't selective. If I'm blind, what did I miss? \_ Bush is courageous? Didn't he turn tail and hide on 9/11? \_ I can list about 500 reasons why Bush should be stuck on his own prison planet. I don't use just one metric. \_ Suggest you learn about his book 200 Years Together - might reveal some insights on WWII, the power structure in this country, and why you don't hear much about him these days.
 2008/8/26-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50972 Activity:nil 8/26 Gary Glitter spent months in a Vietnamese prison cell. Can I vote for him too? \_ that's a fit punishment for writing "Rock and Roll Part II". -tom \_ What are you talking about? \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter \_ I know who Glitter is--I didn't ask *who* the op was talking about. \_ Did you see the part about how he was sent to jail in Vietnam? \_ BUD DAY doesn't appreciate what you are trying to imply here. \_ OJ Simpson is a black celebrity. Can I vote for him too? \_ Your analogy doesn't hold since Barack Obama isn't so much a celebrity as a politician. Your analogy would work somewhat better if you stated that the similarity between OJ and Barack is that they're both black, but that would make you sound racist, esp. as op drew parallels between experience and not skin color. Would you like to try again? \_ No, because you are incredibly stupid and not worth conversing with. \_ Yay! Win by annoying you! Yay!
 2008/8/18-21 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:50892 Activity:nil 8/18 Well, that was quick: Musharraf steps down: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7567451.stm
 2008/8/8-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50817 Activity:high 8/8 Edwards admits affair, doesn't admit for being incredible stupid dumbass who apparently thought having an affair and having his life withstand the scrutiny of being a viablepres. candidate were sustainable \_ He's a Democrat. This is expected. No big deal. Suck dick, fuck pussy, whatever. Just don't do anything stupid like invading a country and getting ourselves into deep shit. Look you fucking Conservatives. Adultery is a sustainable business. Invading countries in the Holy Name of Freedom is NOT a sustainable business. Ok? \_ Liberals invaded Vietnam and Korea. Actually, liberals invaded Iraq too, in the Senate anyway. Atheist liberals ran the USSR. Look at the subways and efficient apartment buildings they built. Iraq was a fucked up country already. I don't like that I had to spend my tax dollars fixing their problems but in the long run they will probably be better off. I dunno about us being better off though. Also, Bush != "Conservatives". Bush is not a classical conservative. \_ "Liberals" invaded Vietnam and North Korea? Wtf are you talking about? If you mean that Democrats got us involved in those two conflicts, you seriously need to read a book some time. The people who ran the Soviet Union are not the same as the Clintons. Get out of the 50s. Wake up. -!pp \_ Harry Truman. \_ What, are you channeling Batman from the video below? You're not making any sense. What are you trying to say? \_ "...liberals invaded Iraq too..." It's almost like they're proud of being ignorant. \_ Harry Truman was President when Vietnam started. He was a Democrat. \_ And? When did this supposed invasion occur? \_ Well, I might argue it was when the first American soldiers entered S. Vietnam. Or could be during LBJ's term with passing of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. The start and escalation of the conflict happened with Democrats in office. They could have just sent all Americans home but instead sent troops. Sending troops is an invasion. \_ In earnest after Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, but before then even. Troops were pulled out under a Republican, of course. \_ Send combat troops to aid friendly govt. != invade. Running away != pulling troops. \_ Ask the Vietnamese if they consider it an invasion. \_ North or South? \_ Either/or. Fully 80% of Vietnamese, whether in the North or South, considered the US an unwanted aggressor. It's one reason we left. No one wanted us there except a minority of elites. \_ Truman? Are you proud of being ignorant? The puppet state was set up by Eisenhower. \_ Are you proud of being a douchebag? Truman started it. (D) Kennedy was the first to send combat troops. (D) \_ You keep saying that "Truman started it" but you are unable to explain what you mean by "it." The nation of Vietnam? It has existed for at least 1000 years. Try again, in English this time. \_ Duh, US military involvement in Vietnam. Do you have a cognitive impediment? The point was, Democrats got us involved in the Vietnam War (and Korea). Why not explicitly say whatever it is you think refutes this instead of dancing around with your head in your ass? (the puppet government is irrelevant) \_ Christ, if you're going to go down this route, why not just say that Wilson started it when he wouldn't hear out Ho Chi Minh's proposal for Viet independence after the signing of the Treaty of Versailles? \_ Because Kennedy and LBJ are the ones who actually started US combat operations in Vietnam. Keep dancing. \_ I can't wipe out a lifetime of ignorance in a few paragraphs, sorry. From the Vietnamese eyes, the Vietnamese war of independence started in 1885. The first direct US involve- ment in Vietnam was during WWII, so you might as well blame FDR. The actual Civil War between north and south started during Eisenhower and JFK sent sent first US combat troops Trying to pin US involvement in Vietname on Truman is just bizarre. sent first US combat troops. Trying to pin US involvement in Vietname on pin US involvement in Vietnam on Truman is just bizarre. \_ Truman was President first and the US was already involved militarily by the time Eisenhower was elected. However, you can blame FDR, too, if you want. \_ Google MAAG Besides, we sure were lucky D's were elected and stopped the conflict before it got out of hand! \_ So your claim is that the US/Vietnam conflict started while Vietnam was still a French colony under French control? How did you do in your history classes? Get any A's? colony under French control? \_ No, my claim is that US military involvement started then. \_ You're wrong. \_ Am I? Whew. Thank you for, um, your convincing argument backed up with facts. \_ My point exactly! Have a cigar. And a dick. \_ No thanks, you're a big enough dick for the both of us. \_ Shit, good thing the Democrats didn't nominate him. \_ What happened to 'mccain has affair, nytimes reports on it, mccain served in vietnam so no one follows up'
 2008/7/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50528 Activity:kinda low 7/9 Why do foreign companies like Toyota start new manuafcturing plants here in the US? Should they be going to China or Thailand or India where blue-collar labor costs are much lower and regulations are looser? \_ It is a way to get around protectionist US import quotas. \- YMWTFG(Voluntary Export Restraints) \_ It's good public relations. More recently, some manufacturing work is moving back to the US due to the higher costs of shipping product from overseas. \_ It's cheaper to build it here when you're selling it here. \_ Which is key. The parts are built out of country. Parts are easier to ship and easier to do JIT delivery over long time frames. Labor savings are not as important as being local when it comes to the finished car. (Also us workers, while costly are also pretty damn educated and OSHA laws actually have huge benefits when it comes to not losing educated workers or time.) \_ I didn't know these. Thanks. -- OP
 2008/7/9-13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:50519 Activity:nil 7/9 Okay, maybe we should be bombing Pakistan after all http://storage.karachikids.com/process/trailerview.html
 2008/6/24-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50361 Activity:nil 66%like:50358 6/24 Correlation between temperature, skin color, and IQ: http://preview.tinyurl.com/yvaru4 [majority rights] \_ What, you couldn't find a stormfront link?
 2008/6/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50358 Activity:nil 66%like:50361 6/24 Correlation between temperature, skin color, and IQ: http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/intelligence_and_skin_color
 2008/6/8-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50185 Activity:nil 6/8 US News reprints McCain's first person POW account from '73. http://csua.org/u/lq4
 2008/5/10-16 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49928 Activity:nil 5/10 will more hot desi women move to the states, now that all of India is about to run out of water? http://tinyurl.com/3q27x2 \- No, they wll be moving to Australia, starting in August. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGzGIef4GqE&feature=related
 2008/4/16-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49760 Activity:nil 4/15 Being a controversial book aside, IQ and the Wealth of Nations shows that we're the SMARTEST NATION BABY!!! 107! bahaha -proud hk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations \_ I'm an athiest and I'm smarter than everyone else! http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm \_ http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/09/24/headsize_hum.html Head size has some correlation with IQ. YEAH BABY -big head Asian \_ You're also uglier than everyone else. \_ I don't listen to country music, therefore I'm smart! http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmwwn/is_200405/ai_kepm460196 \- northerners are smarter. S Cal people are STUPID: http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2007/04/intelligence-and-latitude-in-us.html http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/SGXXRFsOtha6cGEMGuwWF2- http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/SGXXRFsOtha6Rpll-bPvF2- http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/SGXXRFsOtha6IpVbiPPvF2- http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2007/03/map-of-estimated-average-iq-by-state-in.html \_ Attractiveness inversely correlates with intelligence, so NoCal people are UGLY. SoCal people are beautiful. \_ It's true. Plan B Gentlement's Club, Spearmint Rhino, 4 Play, Deja VU Showgirls are consistently better than any of the strip clubs I go to in N Cal. I mean just compare gorgeous babes in S Cal beaches vs. smelly hippy bitches in N Cal. Moral of the story: If you wanna get laid with dumb bimbos, S Cal is THE place baby! \_ ob dumb blonde joke. \_ I didn't realize HK was a nation. I guess the authors have a low IQ. \_ Nor was Puerto Rico. BTW Macau (avg IQ 104) is mentioned in the text but not in the table. Maybe the author is not completely dumb after all. \_ Wow! The big dragon and the four small dragons of Asia took the top five spots. \_ And Germany is #7. Obviously, Hitler knew what he was doing. \_ What I see from this graph: Light colored athiest >> Christians > Muslims > colored athiests
 2008/3/23-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49541 Activity:low 3/23 Democracy comes to isolated kingdom - Yahoo! News: http://www.csua.org/u/l3q '"If you had a referendum, even today, Bhutan would reject democracy. That's the ground reality," said Khandu Wangchuk, the burly, gravel- voiced former foreign minister who is running for a seat in the western town of Paro. "But there's no use wishing democracy away."' Between the Democratic presidential nomination and the Taiwan election yesterday, this is strange news. \- Bhutan is not a "normal place". The "gross national happiness" would be a lot lower if not for massive indian subsidies. would be a lot lower if not for massive Indian subsidies. Imagine Hawaii without govt handouts, and the govt not turning a blind eye to Hawaiian price discrimination etc. For example Bhutanese can buy cars heavily subsidiezed by find from India, which they then turn around and sell at a profit to Indians ... rinse and repeat. Also they have no foreign policy/defense expenditure etc. Bhutanese can buy cars heavily subsidized by India, which they then turn around and sell at a profit to Indians ... rinse and repeat. Also they have no foreign policy/defense expenditure etc. And this doesn include airport, power, road building etc subsidies or outright construction. Bhutan = leech. \_ The Feb. Natl Geo paints those subsidies as India buying hydro- electric power. Is this not a correct depiction? \- I have not read the National Geographic article, so I cannot comment on that, but there is very large development subsisdies as well as non-developmental subsidies from India. Bhutan doesnt do anything other than moderate tourism. Bhutan = leech.
 2008/2/28-3/4 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49288 Activity:nil 2/28 Prince Harry looking like a bad-ass American GI: http://www.csua.org/u/kx1 (Yahoo! News Photos) \_ Doesn't he look more like a British soldier? \_ But that face looks more like an American GI in Vietnam to me. -- OP
 2008/2/14-18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49139 Activity:nil 2/14 Smoking and latent tuberculosis form a synergy of death. http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSDEL3907720080213?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10010 This is a case were YOUR bad habit can cause YOU to become infectious and deadly to others, far beyond just "secondhand smoke". \_ even MORE reasons to move away from city-dwelling liburals and retreat to my gated suburban community -Republican \_ "The results are partly explained by the fact that, unlike in the West, many people in India are infected with asymptomatic tuberculosis. Smoking can cause enough damage to the lungs that the latent infection can no longer be contained, researchers said." Where do you draw the connection of smoking being infectious and deadly to others? \_ Latent tuberculosis is not generally transmissable to others. Active tuberculosis IS. Smoking activates latent tuberculosis. Is the connection clear now? \_ Okay, so in India, where latent tuberculosis is prevalent, a culture of smoking keeps activating the virus and making it more likely to spread. Thank goodness that's not the case here in the States.
 2008/2/3-7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49056 Activity:nil 2/3 Maybe old news - McCain's racist remark from Seattle Post-Intelligencer March 2, 2000: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/hongop.shtml \_ I've heard it before. I was always a little confused though. Doesn't 'gook' refer to Koreans? \_ Generally considered a reference to Vietnamese. Might have been repurposed from Korean Conflict. \_ I've heard the term referenced against both, but more often referenced against Vietnamese. \_ More to the point, it's a word the soldiers used to refer to the NVA. \- hanguk -> korea. Dae Han Min Gook! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCZ_mbHt30g \_ If ever I would forgive anyone for racism, it's McCain for being racist against Vietnamese.
 2007/8/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:47501 Activity:high 75%like:47503 8/1 Because of this increase in cooperation from local Vietnamese in confronting the Vietcong and other extremist groups, the number of weapons caches seized in Vietnam has increased dramatically, already at 3,700 in the first 7 months of 1967. Only 2,726 terrorist and insurgent weapons caches were removed from circulation in all 1966. http://www.csua.org/u/j97 \_ ok that was pretty good.
 2007/2/9-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:45697 Activity:low 2/9 On August 2nd, the USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese P-4 patrol boats 28 miles away from the North Vietnamese coast in international waters... http://csua.org/u/i0x \_ Huh? \_ Excuse me, which tree-hugging hippie commune did fall out of? Iraq is not Vietnam. And North Vietnam is not Iran. \_ I think Iran is 100x worse than Vietnam. Our oil was not under Vietnam. Goddamn Bush! \_ Yeah, how stupid of him was it to put all our oil under Iran? Why didn't he put our oil under Texas or Alaska or something? \_ Because his Saudi oil masters wouldn't let him. "We are merely exchanging long protein strings. If you can think of a simpler way, I'd like to hear it." \_ Well that was stupid to put the oil under Saudi Arabia then, wasn't it?
 2006/10/9-10 [Transportation/Motorcycle, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:44740 Activity:low 10/10 Think Los Angeles traffic is bad? Go to India: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2063667852598904740&hl=en \_ True. And if you think any US traffic is bad, go to any non-Western country. \_ This video is sped up at least twice.
 2006/9/19-22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:44455 Activity:nil 9/19 Who are the fucking Prisoners at Gitmo? "After two months of sifting the fucking information, Hegland had her answer... It showed that most of the fucking detainees hadn't been caught 'on the battlefield' but rather mostly in Pakistan; fewer than half were accused of fighting against the fucking U.S., and there was scant evidence to confirm that they were even combatants. In other words, most of the detainees probably were entirely innocent." http://www.cjr.org/issues/2006/5/Umanskyb.asp?printerfriendly=yes
 2006/7/9-10 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:43607 Activity:low 7/9 ok, India just test fire a missile that is capable of carry nuclear warhead and has the range to hit Beijing. How come there is no "concern" when India test its missile and develop nuclear bomb? http://voanews.com/english/2006-07-09-voa21.cfm \_ Why the "quotes" around "concern"? Probably India actually notified other nations of the test and where the rockets were pointed. And of course Kim Jong Il is a crazy little man. \-^man^rocketman: http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Economist/RocketMan.jpg re: india, what are you "worried" about? \_ Rocketman!? We'd better send him to pick up the hash in Potsdam. \_ how come there is no talk of saction again India? I mean missile testing alone is not an illegal act. our over-reaction was anticipated thus being leveraged by Kim Jong Il. \_ Wow, the Purina Troll Chow is really getting results! -John \_ The politically correct answer is because India is a democratic society, unlike NK, therefore they will not go nuts and start to attack others. But seeing how we've set a perfect example of how corporate greed and money can overweight right and wrong in a democratic society, I think we should be making a bit deal out of it too. Who knows, India may decide to bomb little countries that have oil too. \_ No, the answer is simply because India is a responsible country and NK is not. Iran is not. Israel is. The US is. Britan is. China is. France is. And at the moment, for the time being, Pakistan is.
 2006/5/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:43006 Activity:low 5/10 Why is the troop death toll in Iraq so low? Technology! If someone's gonna die, just stick in a feeding tube. Voila! One less death. http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/10/iraq.medics \_ so it is worse than Vietnam then.. our technology today is just lowering the kill count \_ "If you look at the overall death rate ... the case fatality rate is cut in half from Vietnam to now. And again I think that's due to better training, tactical combat casualty training," I dunno about worse or better. But to think about it: 2500 US soldiers have died in about 3 years, the senior surgeon above says that could be double without the better training, so it potentially could have been 5000 US dead. We were in Vietnam for ~13 years, so 4 times longer than Iraq so far means: 5000 * 4 = 20,000 hypothetical fatalities vs. ~50,000 in Vietnam. \_ Yeah, but there are many reasons why the fatality rate is so much lower; medical technology, training, night vision, more effective body armor, etc. Lacking context, the comparison doesn't really communicate very much. \_ take into account the terrain.. the jungle was much more difficult to spot.. in iraq it should be much easier ... we need tech to detech roadside bombs... \_ Err, comparing the Vietnam era, draft military to the current day armed forces is meaningless. \_ traditionaly, we count casualties, not death. casualties ~= death + injured + captured. By that account, we have close to 20k casualties out of 110k+ force. The ratio is relatively high due to the small total force committed. \_ "Traditionally" "voila" - take any battle from any pre-vietnam war. Learn what casualties really mean. \_ so it is worse than Vietnam then.. our technology today is just lowering the kill count \_ "If you look at the overall death rate ... the case fatality rate is cut in half from Vietnam to now. And again I think that's due to better training, tactical combat casualty training," I dunno about worse or better. But to think about it: 2500 US soldiers have died in about 3 years, the senior surgeon above says that could be double without the better training, so it potentially could have been 5000 US dead. We were in Vietnam for ~13 years, so 4 times longer than Iraq so far means: 5000 * 4 = 20,000 hypothetical fatalities vs. ~50,000 in Vietnam. \_ Yeah, but there are many reasons why the fatality rate is so much lower; medical technology, training, night vision, more effective body armor, etc. Lacking context, the comparison doesn't really communicate very much. \_ take into account the terrain.. the jungle was much more difficult to spot.. in iraq it should be much easier ... we need tech to detech roadside bombs... \_ Err, comparing the Vietnam era, draft military to the current day armed forces is meaningless.
 2006/3/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Health/Women] UID:42522 Activity:nil 3/29 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4855682.stm Indian doctor aborts female fetuses in a land that prefers boys over girls, is jailed. \_ this practice makes Indian girls all the more exotic and precious. I feel bad for Indian men who can't find a mate. Ya reap what ya sow... then again, Muslims are worse. \_ Don't forget to mention how a lot of your friends are muslim.
 2006/3/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:42474 Activity:nil 3/27 yes. muslims are psychos.. DIVORCE in sleep.. no need for vegas http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/27/india.religion.reut index.html \_ This is in India, a country whose history of bureaucracy is surpassed only by China's. Cf. also the endosulfan, India's Living Dead: http://csua.org/u/fcq (TIME Asia)
 2006/3/1-4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:42054 Activity:nil 3/1 ACM has produced a significant new report on the impact of offshoring/outsourcing on the IT industry: http://www.acm.org/globalizationreport Executive Summary and Findings: http://www.acm.org/globalizationreport/summary.htm Bottom line: not nearly as bad as some had thought. http://CCNMoney.com article http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/23/news/economy/jobs_it_offshoring
 2006/2/15-17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:41878 Activity:high 2/15 New Torture images from Abu Ghirab released http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=55&p=20656&s2=15 (warning, not for the faint of heart) \_ Yet not one picture of these 'cartoons'? \_ Um, heard of google? \_ In how many major publications are the cartoons? \_ curious about the timing, though. why they release it now? \_ Some Aussie publishers were probably getting jealous that the US image in the middle east wasn't being tarnished as much by the European caricature fallout, so they decided to "correct" this situation. \_ The ACLU just won a FOIA challange. \_ The liberal media can't stand Muslims looking like barbarians, so they want to remind everyone the US is worse. \_ both muslims and US are barbarians. \_ Only great han nation not barbarian. \_ Everyone is a barbarian, only great GERMAN HANS JOHN not barbarian. HEIL JOHN! \_ indians are not barbarians either. very civilized country. \_ Unless you are in the wrong caste. \_ caste is slowly disappearing in india, whereas social mobility has been getting worse in the US the last 2 decades. \_ Are you talking out of your ass or do you have reputable research that support your statement? \_ I read. try to do the same, or if that's beyond your mental capacity, you can always use google as your brain. \_ I read. you can always use google. \_ If you don't like it then get the fuck out of my country !williamc \_ i am just stating facts reported by the wsj. no need to get all flustered. \_ Repeat this five times to yourself, perhaps in front of a mirror, and you'll realize how stupid this sounds. \_ this whole thread is stupid, especially starting from the "liberal media" part. yea, and the knee jerk "caste!" reaction whenever india is mentioned sure is intelligent. you should look in the mirror yourself. \_ Civilized nations don't have castes in the 21st century, slowly disappearing or not. It's disingenuous to ignore that hideous aspect of Hindu culture. "Look in the mirror" indeed. \_ Civilized nations also don't torture people. \_ I disagree. Besides, the treatment of one's enemy is quite different from treatment of one's own people. \_ yea sure, the Hutus didn't kill their own either. They only butchered the Tutsis. So very civilized. \_ Do you have a point with that comment? I'm sure Pakistanis are treated well in Kashmir, right? \_ Do you have a point with that comment? Regardless of what happens in Kashmir, you are still as civilized as a baboon. \_ The treatment of ones enemy is the clearest indication of ones worth. I also fail to see how you can compare the caste system to torture. What do you even know about the caste system? Did you know that most brahmins were/are dirt poor and depended on poor and depend on begging and handouts to support themselves? \- um this isnt true in any meaningful way. \_ My experience indicates that it is. We can disagree, but the domination of the brahmins is in my exp. a grotesque exaggeration of the so-called backwards com- munities. When one sees the plight of the majority of the "high born" one wonders whether it is not a curse, rather than a blessing. \_ Tell em to get jobs like everyone else. \_ Why not? What exactly is the problem your perceive w/ the caste system? That your birth problem you have w/ the caste system? That your birth precludes you from becoming a hindu priest? For, in reality, that is the ONLY restriction which caste places on a man. hindu priest? In reality that is the ONLY restriction that caste places on a man. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040113/asp/nation/story_2780541.asp _/ http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature1 \_ What does this have to do w/ the caste system? Those who act in this way do so w/ a completely incorrect understanding of the caste system. The caste system classifies men into certain stations based primarily on their conduct, not on their birth. Those who committed these crimes have no claim to any caste. To point to such people as the true and proper illustration of the caste system would be akin to pointing to hamas terrorists as the true and proper illustration of Islam or cross-buring KKK members as true and proper Christians. \_ The stuff in those links reflects on India and this is a thread where somebody claimed India is extra civilized. \_ wait. what does this has to do with whether US and muslims are barbarians? \_ I think someone here is in denial.
 2006/1/20-23 [Finance/CC, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:41461 Activity:kinda low 1/20 So some guy (with an obvious Indian accent) calls me at home and says he's calling about some govt consumer grant where I can get up to $5000 and they will send me a package with an application and I can apply for the grant? I was skeptical and just asked him if he was from India and he got pissed off and hung up on me. So, do all the soda motders think this guy was really working for the govt and that they were calling me so I could apply for a grant, or is it more likely some scam? He knew my name already, and didn't ask for any more information from me. \- maybe he was really from pakistan. \_ I'm from the Government and I'm here to help! \_ Maybe you should've asked if he was *in* India. \_ Well, I asked him where he was and he said he was in St. Petersberg, FL. Later, I asked if he was from India. He said his last name was Rodgers, but he had an obvious foreign accent. -op \_ Sounds like a scam to me. Here: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/scam_alerts/grant.html But here's a rule of thumb: if it appeals to your greed, it's likely to be a scam. I mean, how eager are you to give someone something for nothing? --PM \- one of my credit card companies offered me i think$25,000 for a year at 0% interest for $75 up front. after it became clear i didnt "need" the money, we actually had sort of an interesting conversation ... i said "that is below mkt interest" and she said she knew but they sort of rely on people screwing up and not being able to pay back or forgetting ... and then complimented be on having a high savings rate. that was a weirdly refreshing conversation. you got the sense the person at the other end was reasonable sharp and not a telemarketing drone. \_ YMEW http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/view  2006/1/2-4 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:41200 Activity:high 1/2 A friend of mine is considering Peace Corps. I've heard that it used to be a good program but in the past 25 years has lost a lot of its original lustre, that countries need more help managing resources than 22 year olds teaching them about sanitation, etc. Does anyone have any experience w/ Peace Corps? Or know of any good criticisms of the program? I'll start with: http://www.daytondailynews.com/project/content/project/peacecorps/daily/1104voiceag.html \_ Use tinyurl. I just met a woman who is some sort of Africa \_ why? \_ why? \_ why ask why? \_ why not? \_ why ask why not? \_ Why not ask why not? expert in the peace corps and who described a lot of what they do very openly. Apparently there's still a lot of need for outfits like PC--NGOs, as they are not guaranteed funding, tend to be very self-interested. If you like, I can put you in touch with her (she was a good friend's roommate at GWU Law.) -John \_ My understanding is people who can teach English and maybe elementary math are a dime a dozen. If you are a Civil Engineer or Medical Professional, who may be quite a hot commodity. However, that may also mean you can go into a USAID project or MSF/DrsWithoutBorders type program. I dunno if a vast knowledge of say BGP can be used by the Peace Corps. The do have a lot of restrictions, but I assume you have discovered some of those in your preliminary research. \_ My cousin is currently in the Peace Corps in Latin America. He seems to enjoy the actual work he does (I think he has been involved in getting farmers access to new markets via the internet and other such programs based on micro loans, but I'm not 100% sure). He has expressed some reservations about the way the Peace Corps is administered and the fact that in some places local politics can get in the way of providing any real assistance. iirc, in one town where my cousin worked, the local mayor actively resisted any work done by Peace Corps ppl b/c he felt that they didn't really understand the local situation. One problem I've seen with the Peace Corps is that they don't really train the people with real world skills like building homes or paving or farming before sending them out (most of the people I know who did Peace Corps weren't engineers) so they end up in big or small cities where they can't really do anything very too useful. For historical reference, my mom used to tell me stories of people who did Peace Corps in India. She says they mostly acted like tourists, walking around from village to village, giving out money and stuff. Mostly she says it was pretty lame because in a country like India, a few random english majors can't solve inherent problems related to lack of education and opportunity. the internet and other such programs but I'm not 100% sure). I remember he described some problems with the way the PC is administered and local government resistance. If you want to talk to him, let me know and I'll try to put you in contact with him. --ranga want to talk to him, let me know and I'll try to get you some contact info (I don't think he has email access right now). --ranga \_ primrose got back recently from a tour in the corps in togo \_ My girlfriend spent two years in the Peace Corps in Honduras. We went to visit her adopted Honduran family a couple years ago. I think her impression is that the Peace Corps does good work, but the problems tend to be endemic and difficult to overcome. It's certainly true that the Corps and all NGOs have great difficulty effecting change, due to local politics, corruption, and poverty. It is worth noting that the Peace Corps doesn't sponsor projects; Peace Corps volunteers are assigned to a project run by a local organization or NGO. There is also a wide range of types of work to do, from health and science education, to business development, to engineering. Apparently taxidermy is one of the most sought-after skills due to the huge problems of species endangerment and extinction in poor countries. It is a truism that Peace Corps volunteers get more out of the experience than the countries get out of the programs. -tom \_ Join the Peace Corps: travel to exotic countries, encounter interesting and stimulating species of ancient eras.... and embalm them. \_ If I join the peace corps, will I get to have sex with all the local girls???? -what sodans really want to know! \_ "get to"?  2005/12/22-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Finance/Investment] UID:41122 Activity:low 12/22 For my motd investment buddy. I was looking at TKF (Turkish Investment Fund) and I noticed the following: http://www.etfconnect.com/select/fundPages/global.asp?MFID=3857 Closing NAV:$18.97 Closing Share Price: $23.85 Premium/(Discount): 25.72% As a comparison, IFN (India Fund) has a premium of 5.05% And the CEE you also recommended has a discount of 3.9% Would you be worried about the 25.72% premium? \_ Yeah, it worries me. Especially since I own some TKF. I wish there was some other way to get exposure to Turkey. Do you know of any? \_ I don't know any other. Thanks for the CEE tip. I will sell half my EUROX first thing 2006, and buy CEE with the money. 2006 so I don't pay capital gains until 2007.  2005/12/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:40878 Activity:low 12/6 I read that the PAKI in Pakistan stands for: Pashtun, Afgan, Kashmiris and Iranians. Is that true? \_ Yes, because all acronyms around the world are from English transliterations, so as to make it easy for the U.S. media market. \- no \_ Short for Pakistani. Don't call an Indian a Paki unless you want to insult them. \_ I thought "Paki" was insulting for Pakistanis as well. \- i assume the quetion was about "where does the name "pakistan" come from, not about the usage of the epithet "paki". some people say "wog" stands for western oriential gentleman but that is probably not true and it is just a nasty term that ex post had various faux meanings attached to it. punjab on the other hand certainly is from "5+waters". "paki" i think is urdu for pure or sacred or something like that. i dont know the origin. but it certainly isnt like say "benelux" etc. anybody claiming "kashmir is an essential part of pakistan and is the k in the name" is either confused or bullshitting. the P if anything would be for punjab which is much more important than pashtoon. and sind is left out. YMWTS: http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Humor/Peccavi.txt i note in passing, the indian national anthem does have a sanskritized list of parts of india. \_ easy to assess the veracity of the claims made in this web site: http://geography.about.com/library/misc/blpakname.htm  2005/11/13-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:40564 Activity:low 11/13 Dropping The Bomb on Vietnam Myths http://udallasnews.com/global_user_elements/printpage.cfm?storyid=1033294 Burkett has exposed innumberable purported Vets as frauds, including many who were deified by their media counterparts such as Dan Rather. \_ this message was brought to you by jblack who forgot to take his daily medication today. \_ Have you stopped beating your dead horse? \_ the 5 million Vietnamese dead will be glad to know they did not die atrociously. \_ i'm sure you're right but that has nothing to do with this link. criticism is always much stronger when it's on target. \_ actually, i'm sure both burkett and the 5 million dead guy are right on a fact-by-fact basis. it's just that burkett is the guy who puts forward the strawmen.  2005/10/5-6 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:39990 Activity:moderate 10/5 Hypothetical question: Suppose there's a shortage of resources, should the free market take its course which will hopefully make self-corrections, or should the government intervene and ration resources? What are the pros and cons for either approaches? \_ don't know about pro and con, I just know that in reality, free market is never allowed to distribute critical/essential resources anywhere in the world during severe shortage, rather it is food, water, petro, or steel. \_ It happens everyday. A house costs more than an apple because houses are harder to build and require more resources to do so than an apple. A car costs more than an apple but less than a house for the same reason. What is your question? \- A1 steak sauce is$5. You can get a DVD player for $30. I am not sure these things are really "a priori". \_ Wrong comparison. How about comparing the A1 to the B&O DVD player instead, or the generic brand sauce to the no-namo DVD player? Either the more expensive one took more work/more expensive ingredients, or they successfully created an artificial demand (viz. Godiva$5 chocolate covered strawberries.) Either way you've proven that the market sets prices. -John \- i am not sure what your point is but i didnt really elabroate on mine. 10 years ago i think somebody reflecting on "how difficult is it to make steak sauce vs a dvd player" probably would not have guessed the difference in price would be under 6:1. so this idea of "difficulty" is probably not meaningful outside the mkt price. i am getting at the notion of price signals in the hayakian sense. in fact i think you should abandon the whole notion of "difficulty to build" or resource use and just look at things more abstractly ... this building/resource approach might apply to mfgring [but really you have to look at return on optimal mix of K,L since something can become "easier" by investing more money] but really doesnt apply to something like haircuts. in the abstract setting you consider price, willingness to pay, the difference being consumer surplus, the marginal and average costs and then thigns can get more complicated when you factor in asymmetric information [like when the same in assymetric information [like when the same disposable contact lenses were sold at different prices because they were labelled for diff #hrs]. here is an interesting question: movies clearly cost $10m to$200m+ ... but why are all movie tickets ~$10. \_ Partha, It would be much easier to reply to you if you used a spelling checker and didn't ramble for 3 pages. As it is, I don't assume that you're interested. -John \_ Because the cost of a$200m is spread over a much larger number of viewers. A blockbuster will make a billion $in sales (us, domestic, and dvd) vs a less expensive film which is also less likely to be known and recover it's costs. Also, a big chunk of the "cost" of a$200m film is in marketing and PR and often a $50MM/film hollywood actor. I suspect most films will do just as well or as poorly without all that junk heaped on top of the base production cost. For example, the Spiderman flick did super well with a no-name actor (and now every moron in hollywood wants to be a super hero) but Electra was a total bomb and so was Dare Devil with well known actors who made oodles more cash than the SM kid. Ok, nvm, I'm way off topic and now ranting about the stupidity of hollywood. I feel better now. :-) \_ Why can't I afford to buy a house when I am a hardworking intelligent person, while some dot-com millionaire who got his money through sheer good luck instead of hard work lives in a mansion and has a hot girlfriend? \_ Because you live in the Bay area(or southern california). \_ Because you live in the Bay area (or southern california). It really is that simple. Anywhere else in the country you'd be able to afford a home. No, I don't know how much you make, but in most of the country, buying a house with a 25k/year salary is feasable. \_ You should've gone to medical school. \_ This is why I stopped being a coder and went to law school. BTW, perhaps you should look down as well as up - there are BILLIONS of people in this world who weren't lucky enough to be born into a country where opportunity and prosperity is everywhere and hardly anyone concerns themselves about things like potable water and edible food. One may easily ask what EXACTLY we did to deserve our comfortable existence while everyone else continues to struggle just to survive. \_ Except many lawyers don't make all that much more than a good s/w engineer. There might be more job security, but maybe not. Medical school is your best bet. \_ The problem w/ engineering is that there is no long term job prospect - esp. in the valley. Whatever your skill set is, it eventually goes stale and some young kid is going to be better at your job and mgmt can get rid of you and pay him less to get the same work. The practice of law is different, experience counts and many practice areas never go stale b/c people keep having the same problems over and over again. BTW, the pay is better ~ 110-125K start. \- also lawyers and doctors are smarter about restricting competition. \_ Are lawyers and doctors smarter about restricting competition, or is less competent engineering more acceptable (in the sense less subject to remedy by the court system) than less competent medical or legal service? Not in the sense that foreign engineers are less competent, but that official certification of engineering training has greater value. \_ I think he means that you can't practice as a doctor/lawyer unless you pass an exam and its reasonably hard to pass that exam. There is nothing comparable to that in eng. Sure there is PE, but outside of Civil hardly anyone cares. In coding I'm not exactly sure what difference an exam would make b/c most of the really good coders I've met were mathematicians, physicists, &c. rather than EE/CS so an exam might actually keep good people out. Re less competent engineering - Just work on any big project and you will find lots of stuff that doesn't work or wasn't well thought out, &c. The impact of something like this is less unlike giving someone the wrong medication or failing to file a motion in a timely fashion, &c. At worst you will lose some money. \- the practice is law is defined very broadly [see the infamous Nolo v. Texas case. I actually wonder if HARRIET THE JUDGE had a role in that] as are medical practices ... like you cannot to the best of my knowledge go to a dental hygenist for a tooth cleaning without a dentist involved or go to an optician for a an eye power measurement. however a non PE engineer can do lots of work. my parent never bothered to get a PE till maybe 15yrs after his phd and had billions of dollars of projects under his belt. in the 70s the AMA made certain certification test changes specfically targetted at incoming russian and indian doctors. i actually think there are a fair number of sort of iffy doctors. as they saying goes, "what do they call the guy who graduated at the bottom of his med school class?" "doctor". but yeah, probably fewer leem doctors because there arent that many med schools. there are a lot of clown lawyers and a huger number of leem law schools and some of them may have automatic bar pass ... i doubt a lot of the PDs in boise are very good. \_ no matter how many clown lawyers \_ not matter how many clown lawyers there are - and I agree there are lots and lots of clowns - there are clearly many more clown eng- ineers. It doesn't take much to get an engineering degree or to find a entry level engineering job. Maybe you don't meet these \_ I believe it is harder to get an engineering degree than a law degree. \_ Law school seems far more difficult to me. In engineering you could get by w/o do- ing much (I managed 3.0+ and I can barely integrate) \_ Did you take any humanities classes? Anyone can get a 3.0 at a CSU and get into a mediocre law school. Overall, I find the average engineer to be much smarter than the average lawyer. \- I was pretty much in the middle of the pack in upper div and grad math/science classes I took, but I was definitely "order of coif" the ConLaw, coif"/summa in ConLaw, I took (and at the dumb end of a few seminars), but I was definitely "order of coif"/summa cum laude in ConLaw, Law&Econ, BusinessLaw, Legal Philosophy, Legal History and Law Seminars I took. I took, however these were in academic depts, not the law school for the most part. (--not PP) the most part. The people in philosophy were prob the smartest humanities people. (--not PP) people and a few smart in econ. Pol Sci and Bus school people were dumb or apathetic usually. (--not PP) in my experience hum/ socsci grad students in legit depts who are legit admits are usually sharper than most Boalt students. (--not PP) \_ I took a few, but I mostly avoided humanities b/c they were a lot more work than upper-division engineering classes. I'm guessing that if someone like me can make it through cal engineering, it must be *really* easy to get an engineering degree. jokers in the ivory tower, but I used to bump into them every day in the valley. \- hello, accroding to Bureau of Labor Statistics: stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm compared to ~.9million people licensed to practice law. \_ Maybe I'm reading this wrong but according to bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm there are about 700K lawyers, while there are about 1.5 million engineers (+ 675K soft- ware engineers: bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm). \- there are a lot of "paraengineers" who may be called engineers, while there are paralegals who are not lawyers. i have to go to mcdonalds now. russian and indian doctors. job. \_ so what? is your determination of what an engineer is somehow more authoritative? \_ I read an article in WSJ that says lots of companies are outsourcing jobs to lawyers in India (eg. patent research). It also says that in India job status ranking is: engineer > doctor > accoutant > lawyer Is that true? \_ Re outsourcing - what I've seen is that some of the grunt work of writing a patent and lots of the prior art searching has been moved offshore, but the real legal work (esp. in litigation and patent counseling remains here). Re India job ranking - partially true. Software engineers are at the top of the totem pole, but regular engineers aren't that highly regarded b/c there are so many of them. Until about 6 or 7 yrs ago, the top job was IAS (Indian Administrative Service - civil servants). \_ Re: outsourcing, yes this is true. However, many lawyers think that the grunt work is where lots of good skills are learned. You don't start at the top. It's akin to outsourcing medical residents, but not practicing doctors. FWIW, lots of radiology is also being outsourced so medicine is not 100% safe either. Re India job ranking - partially true. Software engineers are at the top of the totem pole, but regular engineers aren't that highly regarded b/c there are so many of them. Until about 6 or 7 yrs ago, the top job was IAS (Indian Administrative Service - civil servants). Being a doctor was an okay line of work but it didn't really fetch you much more money than anyone else. medical or legal service? \_ Re: outsourcing, yes this is true. However, many lawyers think that the grunt work is where lots of good skills are learned. You don't start at the top. It's akin to outsourcing medical residents, but not practicing doctors. FWIW, lots of radiology is also being outsourced so medicine is not 100% safe either. \_ No, you are wrong regarding the valley, but you have to work your way pretty far up the food chain to realize that. \_ I know lots of people who have been working in the valley for 25+ yrs and I'm pretty sure its true. Unless you move into mgmt or something, there are no longer term prospects. \_ Trust me, you're wrong. The trick is not "25+ years" but rather "pretty far up the food chain". There are engineers with 25+ years of experience who are mostly worthless, just as there are engineers whose worth never expires. \_ Maybe so, but what I noticed was that high on the food chain positions mostly went to politically connected people rather than competent people (this is at a big company - maybe startups and vc firms are better). at a big company though). Anyway, making it high up the food chain wasn't really an option for me, so I chose something w/ more stability and similar (or slightly higher) pay. \_ I can drop names if you wish. Are you at Sun? The first generation of DE's were mostly impressive, and many are still technical. I am friends with several (ehf, agn, and tvh--ehf is officially a vp, tho he's still technical and has no direct reports, i think; agn got burned and is back at cmu again, i hear; tvh is still retired, though his role was technical and not managerial at artx). I am less sure of the current crop of Sun DE's. I was more thinking of Gunning or Dobberpuhl when I answered your original claim. \_ I'm at Sun. I've met some current \_ I'm Sun. I've met some current DEs and I wasn't impressed - they were mostly political appointees. The major exception was Diffie, but he's Diffie and I'm just random coder. My promotion from MTS to Staff The promotion from MTS to Staff Eng. also seemed to have a lot more to do w/ politics than skill, which was disheartening, esp. considering I was responsible for a moderately successful product that actually makes money vs. the people who were considering my promotion hadn't shipped an actual product in 5+ yrs. shipped a actual product in 5+ yrs. I've also gone through the ARC several times and the people were pretty useless but they certainly had job stability. I also worked w/ some of the orig. UNIX team at Bell Labs and saw them get forced out b/c of bs politics by complete tools. \_ This is probably because lots of the 1st generation were academics. They have given way (necessarily, IMO) to businessmen who are less special but possess a different set of skills. Maybe I'm just a little jaded. I figure the legal thing is a bit better b/c you can get a decent practice going and just stick to that. \_ The first generation of DE's were all pretty special, and even the senior staffs from that era were significantly smart. Since then, I've been told DE's have beomce yet another promotion and are now much less special. food chain". \_ The people I know are at senior staff eng. or principal eng. (or mgmt equiv at director). I guess if you can make DE or VP you can get some measure of job security but I don't know too many people who can get that far. politics by complete fools. \_ This is probably because lots of the 1st generation were academics. They have given way (necessarily, IMO) to businessmen who are less special but possess a different set of skills. \_ The pay is marginally better. If you look at salary averages there are a lot of lawyers not making even$100K. \_ Sure, but most lawyers aren't in technical practice areas (patent, copyright). So few lawyers can understand the science/technology needed that the pay is much higher in those areas. \_ Well, this is like comparing the salary of a surgeon to a pediatrician. Most lawyers COULD NOT PRACTICE in a technical area if they wanted to. \_ The problem w/ engineering is that whatever your skill set it eventually goes stale and some young kid is going to be better at your job and mgmt can get rid of you and pay him less to get the same work. The practice of law is different - and if you don't like one area of practice or that area starts to dry up you can always go work for a real estate or insurance firm. \_ No, you are wrong. But you have to work your way pretty far up the food chain to realize that. \_ sure, but I was responding to wages in comparison to being a coder - the income potential for a former coder lawyer in a tech practice is quite high. \_ If the price naturally rises, it will allow substitutes which were previously not feasible to enter the market. So allowing the price to rise will potentially increase total supply. \- it depends why there is a shortage. govt intervention != govt should provide/subsidize it. govt repsonses can include things like changing ip regime. if you want a generic frame- work to think about this, do mircoecon. if you want to talk about a spcific case, you should mention what it is. in the real world it's often unclear what constitutes a "shortage" [is there a shortage of diamonds?] just like it is often unclear if a firm has market (monopoly) power. also a "supply shock" is not the same as a persistent shortage, say in the case of water or power. the govt probably should not intervene in the RARE MAGIC CARD mkt. and finally it depends on the govt. a bad govt can clearly make things worse. see e.g. AK Sen's work on famines. \_ I agree there is a shortage of h07 42n ch1x in san jose. \_ I agree there is a shortage of h07 42n ch1x in the bay area. SOMETHING must be done! \_ free h07 4zn ch1x for 1337 c0d3r5! w00t! his money through sheer good luck lives in a mansion and has a hot girlfriend? case of water or power.
 2005/9/20-22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:39770 Activity:low 9/20 dear motd travel agent, My company is sending me to India for a few weeks in November. I will be in Bangalore but I plan to take weekends and some extra time off to do sightseeing. I've never been to India before and would love to hear any advice. Specifically I'm wondering if it's realistic to expect to be able to use the weekends to do sightseeing by taking flights within the country to see specific areas or if that's too crazy / wasteful. \- if you ask on the wall, i may be able to give you some help. --psb \_ Can't you just respond? There's a reason why motd works better \- this is simpler to answer in a two way conversation. otherwise you waste time on paths that may be subject to early pruning. \_ Hahahaha, "path" and "early pruning", this is so CS talk and so funny in this context.. \_ I can tell you that India is a huge country, and that flying between big cities isn't something that can easily be done in a weekend without you tiring yourself out after one trip. Try taking some extended time off (~5 days) to be able to spend some time once you're in the new city. Otherwise, with the hectic hell that is the airport in india, you will not want to fly again. BTW, go with Jet Air if you fly. \- india is a big country by rail but not by plane. when it comes to travel, india offers a very pure choice between time an money. in general i would recemmend try to do a longer trip maybe at the end of your trip rather than try to do weekend stuff. although a weekend trip to kerela might be doable. but you have to pick whether you want to see ancient monumuents, mountains, relax at a beach resort etc. \_ Air travel is not exactly easy in India. Unless you are prepared to deal with flight cancelation and getting stranded, I would recommend that you stick to either bus tours or trains from B'lore. A day/weekend trip that is pretty safe is to travel to Mysore. It is about a 2 hr train ride and there are many trains each day. Mysore has some nice palaces and temples that you can visit. There is also KRS dam w/ fountains and a garden that is nice. Mysore is pretty laid back and should be safe for english only tourists. If you have some extra cash, you might be able to stay at the Laitha Mahal Palace for a couple of days. I agree w/ psb that a weekend trip to Kerela might be doable, but seeing as the train ride is nearly 1 day from B'lore it will be cutting it close. You might be able to fly to Cochin but that will be expensive and you should probably have a backup plan b/c there are only like 1 or 2 flights from B'lore to Cochin every day and the flights get canceled frequently. \- i suspect locals can tell you a reliable way to get to cochin etc. in my experience india guide books are often out of date or giving non-optimal advice. there are a lot of non-intuitive things about india travel that are "common knowledge" among locals. for example if you want to get from Kolkata to Varanasi, it is vastly superior to take the Howrah - Mughal Sarai Junction train than to take the direct train to Varanasi Cantonment. etc. more in mail. \- according to my india rail guide the Kaveri Express leaves B'lore around 7am gets to Mysore around 10ish and leave Mysore around 6pm to return to B'lore by ~9, so that may be a easy weekend, but locals can tell you if it would be smarter to hire a car if you have 2-4 people in your tour party. it is about 400mi to cochin and the b'lore - kanyakumai express [sic] goes via ernakulam but i am not sure if there is a better option. unless you count the really big destinations in india, india travel is often about the characters you meet on the journey and the "character building" that happens rather where you are going. i've always been surpised to hear people liked kolkata because there isnt much to see there and i am not sure what is interesting about the place if you dont speak bengali.
 2005/7/26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:38828 Activity:moderate 7/26 So rich Korean/Chinese/Taiwanese/Singapore single lonely dude all mail orders pretty Vietnamese girls, what about Vietnamese dude?? What the hell do they do? ;) \_ Mail-order from Laos? \_ Please don't lump Singapore with males chauvinist countries like USA, China, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc. Singapore doesn't have a sex ratio problem: at birth: 1.08 male(s)/female under 15 years: 1.07 male(s)/female 15-64 years: 0.95 male(s)/female 65 years and over: 0.79 male(s)/female total population: 0.96 male(s)/female (2005 est.) \_ Many boys die while growing up? \_ that's the same everywhere. go check at: http://www.indexmundi.com -> country -> people -> sex ratio \_ Men have higher mortality for a bunch of reasons, military service, more likely to be involved in violent crime, more likely to take stupid risks for fun, etc etc. \_ more likely to write on the motd
 2005/7/18-19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:38696 Activity:nil 7/18 http://CNN.com breaking news: Retired Gen. William Westmoreland, who commanded American troops in Vietnam -- the nation's longest conflict and the only war America lost -- died tonight at age 91. The silver-haired officer contended the United States did not lose the conflict in Southeast Asia. "It's more accurate to say our country did not fulfill its commitment to South Vietnam," he said.
 2005/7/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:38408 Activity:nil 7/4 STOP THE WAR IN VIETNAM!!! Stop destroying Vietnam villages! Power to the Weathermen!
 2005/6/19-20 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:38191 Activity:nil 6/19 The great management consultancy ripoff: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1509728,00.html \_ Sensationalism, to a degree. My girlfriend works for one of these, and their billing is far more straightforward--each project is sold with x% fixed expenses on top. The problems with a lot of management consultancy projects are far more subtle--things like failing to draw the line at helping a customer's management fuck up a company through short-sighted cost cutting, etc. -John \_ Yeah, like moving jobs to India. I heard that some management finally realize that it's not a great idea after all.
 2005/5/14-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:37683 Activity:high 5/14 This is just depressing stuff. Woman kicked like a soccer ball dies. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/15/MARIA.TMP \_ Tragic, but you'll note that her family offered to buy her a home in Chicago and she refused because of the weather. Yes, homeless is so much better. \_ The woman got stomped to death after living a life that would break just about anyone. How about you just shut the hell up and stop trying to score some meaningless points. \_ I think you got trolled. \_ She has mental problems. Give her a break. \_ Trolling is also trying to score meaningless points. \_ She had mental problems. Give her a break. Besides, there is this line in the article: "Calls home became less frequent, and more desperate for money." I doubt if her family was really so generous as to buy her a home. Otherwise she wouldn't need to sound desperate for money. Maybe her family only offered a small downpayment and she was supposed to handle the mortgage. Some people like to exaggerate their goodness when there's no one to counter them. \_ You might be correct, but people are often reluctant to give money without strings to crazy/drug addicted people. This is not unreasonable. \_ well, in my country, they say that America is a great country with lots of opportunities IFF you're young and fit, because if you're not, there's no one (government) to take care of you. In this case, she got a physically debilitated and things seemed In this case, she got physically debilitated and things started to go downhill. In my country, this would never happen. But then again, my country isn't as big and powerful as America. \_ What's your country? I was very surprised to see how many homeless and despondent people I saw on the streets of "functioning" places like Vancouver, London, Tokyo and Frankfurt. Even Sweden & Denmark have the pooor, broken bastards that just fall through the cracks. -John \_ Simple response - Move back. Seriously. \_ I will gladly get out of your facsist imperialistic country and move back when I've made enough money for retirement. I'll reap social benefits of my country while enjoying wealth that I earned when I was young and healthy. You on the other hand are stuck with broken infrastructures and national deficits. Anyways, this is what I love about America. I get free education (scholarships), I make lots of money with only 30% tax, and I get to take everything from America back home. America IS a great country. \_ I was going to say "Yeah, but how much tax do you pay in your country?" But then I just remember that we pay lots of tax here too. \_ US is 15% for the poor, 40% for the richest. I am personally paying 30%, and I wouldn't mind paying 50% if 1) my government would stop squandering money on pointless war, propaganda, and Corporationally aligned agendas and 2) my government starts improving things INSIDE the U.S., like better (more organized) mass transit, better road systems, better education, and infrastructures in general. I personally prefer a country run by Denmark/Switzerland like government with lots of accountability and a sense of duty and ethics than see it run over by private corporations like it is now. This whole talk on privatization on every little thing is sickening me. \_ I think the word you're looking for is "accountability." Be wary of using places like .dk and .ch as examples--they have a lot of problems too, they just don't show up as much because they're generally on a smaller scale. -John \_ Tell us about their problems. Percentage-wise, is it worst than U.S.? Do they also privatize social security, electricity, water, and other things? Is the quality of education level more "flattened" thoughout the country, or is it very aymmetrical like the U.S.? -Curious liberal red-neck \_ I dunno about Denmark, althoug they have a m4d immigration backlash. .ch privatizes most utilities to heavily regulated companies. The problems are way different (mainly to do with immigration/integration and heavy-handed bureaucracy stifling business and innovation.) You can't draw comparisons between ethnically and culturally homogenous countries of < 20 million and the US. -John
 2005/4/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:37109 Activity:kinda low 4/7 Just curious, when US sells lots of F-16s to India and Pakistan, how much profit is going back to the the people (which may or may not help in covering the deficit)? And how much of it goes to companies that make these weapons? \_ What do you mean by "back to the people"? I guess it goes to Lockheed Martin stockholders. \_ Don't forget that, at least in Pakistan's case, we probably lent them the cash in the first place. -John \_ and in the case of Israel and Egypt, we gave them the money. Perhaps giving money directly to corporations ain't so bad, at least it cuts out the middle man. \_ Cuts out arming the unstable foreign ally of the moment? \_ Actually, Pakistan already paid for the F-16s. The trade was put on hold due to problems with Kashmir.
 2005/3/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:36912 Activity:moderate 3/27 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4387055.stm http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=67229 http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050328/world.htm http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/mar/26pak1.htm U.S. to sell fighter jets to both Pakistan and India. How much revenue will this generate and reduce the deficit? If it is a good business model, maybe we should export more... \_ US is smart. Sell some F16s to Paki to annoy India, then tell them, why are you so pissed off? we can sell you some too. \_ not just that, but sell them 2nd string fighter tech. \_ We sold semi-modern fighers to the Shah of Iran, but when he was overthrown we stopped providing any replacement parts and maintanance help. \_ I remember watching some cable tv show that also said some of the importanat electronic parts "mysteriously disappeared" from the fighters when the techs left the country. \_ An F16 will be sold at 50-60mil tops. Do the math. India has announced a tender to purchase a large quantity of light fighter jets to replace their pre-historic Mig-21s. So far, the makers of F16, Grippen, Mig-29, and Mirage F2000 have submitted proposals.  2005/2/13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:36161 Activity:nil 2/13 Why is our generation so fucking lazy? What happened to this country? \_ The Internet \_ Why do things yourselves when you can exploit cheap labor in India?  2005/1/31 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35992 Activity:very high 1/31 Can anyone recommend a good book on the Vietnam war? I'm realizing I don't actually know much about it. \_ "On Strategy", by Harry G. Summers Jr. for a purely military analysis of why we "lost". -John \_ "In Retrospect : The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam" by the architect of it all, former Ford exec, Cal grad,w/zero combat exp. , and so-called "Whiz Kid" Robert Strange (REAL MN)McNamara \_ - chicom troll pretender \_ deleted by real chicom troll \_ WTF? -the REAL chicom troll \_ Will the real chicom troll please stand up.... \_ You are ALL lying! -ilyas \_ [ sign my name for me at your peril, bitch. -- ilyas ] \_ Or what? You're going to nuke the motd....*again*? \_ Well I can learn John's baseball bat method, if you prefer. -- ilyas \_ Smith and Wesson beats baseball bat more often than not. \_ I have a 1945 issue Remington-Rand M1911 too. -John \_ Yeah, and I've got a baseball bat also. So what? \_ 1942 issue Remington-Rand M1911 beats baseball bat more often than not. \_ No, goddamnit, no! No recursion is allowed! Eat my exit-condition, beyotch! \_ I d never buy Smith and Wesson, those wusses bowed down to the anti-gun lobby pressure. P.S. My fans are starting to scare me. -- ilyas \_ Uhm, I don't think Smith and Wesson makes baseball bats, so that might be moot. \_ Speaking of baseball bats and BULLDOZERS, is browning any good when it comes to pistols? Hipower? \_ Don't make my hero bust out with the BULLDOZER!!! Yeah, that's right. You're all quiet now. -- ilyas #1 fan \_ RPG beats BULLDOZER!!! more often than not. \_ Assault rifle beats RPG. http://www.christophor.com/vids/iraqi.mpeg \_ OMGLOL \_ Simple, the US got more than what it bargained for. Got its ass kicked by the PRC army in Vietnam. Nixon had to \_ PRC army in Vietnam? -John \_ Yes, one of my uncle actually fought in Vietnam. It wasn't like the Korean war where the PRC dumped millions of soldiers in it, but it's also more than just weapon supplies. -someone from mainland \_ are you sure your uncle wasn't fighting in the sino-vietnamese war which happened after the americans got kicked out of vietnam? \_ Oh, come on. Read a fucking history book. Yes, there were PRC soldiers fighting Americans in Vietnam. \_ Maybe a couple, but considering that the PRVN was primarily Soviet-aligned, and the USSR and ChiComs weren't getting along to well (not to mention long-festering border incidents which ended up as a full-on war in the late 1970s) the whole thing about "PRC KICK YANKEE GI OUT VIETNAM!" is pretty silly, especially given that the US didn't lose a single decently sized conventional engagement. -John abandon Taiwan and go to China to establish diplomatic relationship with the PRC precisely because of the Vietnam War, because they come to realize during later stages of the war that one of their main base has been completely surrounded by the PRC army, despite their day and night of non stop bombing in the surrounding area (which you can find references to in the history channel but they stop short of telling you what happens afterwards), they've come to realize they cannot prevent the inevitable and will be overrun. The loss of life will be unacceptable to the US public. So Nixon sends you know who secretly to the PRC to negotiate. In the end the PRC withdraw its forces and the US pulled out, leaving everything behind including their beloved K9 dogs. To those who think the US pulled out because of public pressure, its all bullshit, but surely sounds better than telling the public, look, if we sacrifice Taiwan, we will have XXX less body bags to bring home. \_ Your history is hilarious. You should write a book. -John \_ you got your history all backwards and confused. we chicom didn't fight in vietnam. if we did, you wouldn't have lasted that long. it's only our little sister the vietcong fighting there. stop imagining things. - real chicom troll \_ e.g. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/vietnam.htm In short: both trollers and John are wrong. China did send a sizable number of soldiers (>~ one army division) and though it wasn't convered extensively by the media, it was never even a secret. It didn't kicked US ass nor was it ever intended to. It's role is somewhat similar to US' role in SK today: to convincine US not to attack with ground force as it did in Korea. Also worth noting: US built SV into the world's 4th largest AF and army, and 5th largest navy. It is rather moot to say you never lost a single conventional engagement. That Austrian dude had the world finest killing machines and still lost in the end. \_ Thank you, good reading. \_ Watch "Fog of War" on DVD. It's a very interesting one-on-one interview with the guy who was SecDef at the time. \- you might want to specify what you are looking for ... there are books by military people, journalists, photographers, political scientists/historians, intelligence people, and famous fictional works like The Ugly American or The Quiet American. --psb \_ Is _The Quiet American_ as good as _The Ugly American_ ? \_ The book is nice, the movie's pretty but sort of Graham Green Lite. \_ We Were Soldiers Once...And Young  2005/1/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35760 Activity:moderate 1/17 Each day the war goes on the hatred increases in the hearts of the Vietnamese and in the hearts of those of humanitarian instinct. The Americans are forcing even their friends into becoming their enemies. It is curious that the Americans, who calculate so carefully on the possibilities of military victory, do not realize that in the process they are incurring deep psychological and political defeat. The image of America will never again be the image of revolution, freedom, and democracy, but the image of violence and militarism. -MLK \_When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" And yes, they are free at last. \_ No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. -GPJ \_ MLK was a marxist.. you didn't know this? I wonder if he ever talked to any of the Cambodians or Viet boat people? \_ Cambodians? Luckily the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia and unseated the US and China supported Khmer Rouge from power. Otherwise, the killing fields would be even power. Otherwise, the killing fields would've been even worse. \_ Yeah, luckily Cambodia was invaded by a rival communist power to stop an oppressive government... Hmmm, doesn't this somehow sound vaguely familiar? \_ doesn't sound familiar at all. do elaborate. \_ MLK was on FBI's top 10 most wanted list as well. From US government's track record (black panther), i am still wondering who killed MLK. \_ MLK was on FBI's top 10 most wanted list as well. From US government's track record (black panther), i am still wondering who killed MLK.  2004/12/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35481 Activity:nil 12/29 What was the time lag between when things started getting fucked up in Indonesia vs. Sri Lanka / India? I would think news should travel pretty damn fast after 40K+ died in Indonesia. I don't think this aspect has been covered at all (for some reason news only seems to be covering lack of ocean sensors - but you don't need ocean sensors to warn Sri Lanka / India once you've established thousands dying in Indonesia). \_ I agree news should have spread, but no one thought it was 40+ thousand dead until days after. \_ You don't need 40K+ dying to tell the other countries. All you need are tsunamis hitting the shore and it being covered on TV as a news bulletin in Indonesia as well as other countries. \_ Umm... spread how? If they didn't get the warning from the US through their governments, how would they get it from the people who were actually being hit by the tsunami? Collective consciousness? \_ Warnings about potential tsunamis since none have hit yet != Warnings about tsunamis that have already hit Indonesia that could also hit other countries Let's say there is a 2 hour lag time between tsunamis hitting Indonesia vs. Sri Lanka / India. This assumes 500 mph waves. Personally, I think it should take 30 minutes for this to hit radio + TV + Internet in Sri Lanka / India, 30 minutes more for people to run out to the coasts and say get the fuck away, with 1 hour of buffer time. I think lots of senior people fucked up and sat on the news for two or more hours. \_ I think you seriously underestimate what it means when a very poor nation/area lacks infrastructure to deal with this sort of crisis, both in terms of transmitting information (esp after what little infrastructure just got swept away by a tsunami) and in terms of receiving, processing, disseminating, and then finally reacting. This is exacerbated when this lack of ability to react is coupled with complacency and unpreparedness. If the US had only 2 hours of warning before a large tsunami hit the eastern seaboard, the loss of life would be staggering. \_ Well, the least I want to suggest is that politicians and other people in charge are blaming a lack of ocean sensors, vs. assuming responsibility for not spreading the news to local media. How much does it take to say: "Hey, play this on TV. Tidal waves are hitting Indonesia. It might hit us." I think you overestimate the difficulty of this. You and a lot of people, too, which is why it is not being covered. \_ No, I don't overestimate the difficulty of making a broadcast of this sort. No need to be snippy. \_ If you think I'm being snippy, perhaps you shouldn't use the same phrasing. \_ You must be the "why don't they just tread water for a little while" guy, huh? \_ Didn't this happen at 6/7 am local time? How many people in those impoverished, remote villages would be watching TV at that time? How many actually have electricity? \_ Then why don't I see news reports talking about what you're talking about? All I see are "no ocean sensors", not "no TVs / radios, everyone was asleep anyway".  2004/11/22-23 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35025 Activity:low 11/22 The Hmong People in the U.S. http://www.jefflindsay.com/Hmong_tragedy.html \_ Hmong people Among people. \_ So, um, I'm curious. Does the rice man wear glasses? Did he wear glasses when he threw the ilyas-like tantrum? \_ He ruined hunting for everybody! \_ He has ruined the reputation of the Hmong people for generations to come. \_ Maybe he just descided to hunt the most dangerous game... \_ I guess McVeigh was the U.S. people in teh U.S.  2004/11/19-20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:34986 Activity:very high 11/19 How I Began to Teach About the Vietnam War http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1284084/posts \_ I love free republic guy. Do you have a family? would you like to come over for Thanksgiving? - danh \_ what do you think of the article? \_ It is well-written, balanced, historically accurate, and insightful. It does not do the author justice to have his article reproduced among the steaming ill-informed monkey-shitpile that is http://freerepublic.com -John \_ So what kind of monkey-shitpile is soda wall, John? \_ article was fine. I do not agree that the US had any clear way of "winning". losing over 1/10 of their population to US explosives didn't phase the Vietnamese at all while they were defending their home turf. - danh \_ No, no, no! You are wrong. The Nixon bombings were effective and broke the stalemate at the Paris Peace talks. If Watergate had not happened we may still have had an effective cease fire. In addition, the Tet offense was a disaster for the North, and they didn't try an invasion like that again for many years. It's a common myth that the VC were invincible. They were not. We were constantly beating them, it's just that we should've invaded the north. We couldn't because of China. The U.S. didn't lose Vietnam, they abandoned it. \_ The article was fundamentally flawed, in that it glossed over the fact that the United States *did* support illegitimate and unpopular regimes after the overthrow of Diem. \_ All of you are missing his fundumental thesis. ie "It was a good idea, but we &*%)ed it up." All of you saying "Yeah, but we did this wrong" should be agreeing with him. Also, by extension, we shouldn't not help anyone else just because we boned it up once. \_ It was a bad idea, AND we*%)ed it up. See post below for why. \_ I assume you mean the domino theory one? True, the domino theory turned out to be incorrect, but I don't think that made Vietnam a bad idea. Korea didn't turn out perfect either, but I'm dang glad we protected SK. \_ Bad idea, good idea. Let's call it a mistake. Also, Vietnam != Korea. U.S. participation in Korea, Gulf War 1, WW2 were not mistakes. \_ No, his fundamental thesis was that he had been taught three incorrect things by the anti-war movement: 1) that the gov't of SV was illegitimate, 2) that we had no legitimate reason for being in Vietnam and 3) that we couldn't have won anyway. "These are that there was never a legitimate non-communist government in Saigon, that the U.S. had no legitimate reason to be involved in Vietnamese affairs, and that the U.S. could not have won the war under any circumstances." The article is bad because 1 and 3 are correct, imo, and no serious person held #2. I am sure you can find a few Communists and the like who believed #2, but most Americans, even anti-war Americans, believed that the US had a commitment to fight Communism. They just didn't think Vietnam was the right place to do it and they didn't like the way we fought it. The whole line of argument of his that Dinh was legitimate is a red herring, since most of our support came after he was deposed and we supported the coup that deposed since most of our support for the wary came after he was deposed and we supported the coup that deposed him to boot! \_ Ever hear of SEATO? Yea but you are right NATO was a stupid idea too. \_ The three "axioms" he mentioned I don't think are that important. The key issue is the dominoes did not fall after we lost the Vietnam War and expended significant national resources in doing so. \_ Wrong, one significant domino did fall. Ever heard of Cambodia? \_ American ideals and beliefs are one thing, but how many times have US allowed its selfish self-interest to take precedence over these. People around the world like democracy, freedom, rule of law, etc., but they don't like US trying to bully other countries for its selfish goals and interests. Just because US, as a country, is one of the better representatives of these ideas, does not mean its use of power abroad is just or in support of these ideals. To assume so is the biggest hole in the argument the author put forth. \_ Apparently you need to get yourself a copy of "Weatlh of Nations" and read it from cover to cover. It's amazing what a little education can do for even the weakest of minds... But I doubt you will so here's the capsule. A) All countries are after their own self interest, that's just how it works. B) Having a country like America look after its own self interest in the world is not merely justified, it's necessary for not only the continuation of America but life as we know it. C) If it wasn't America it would be China or Russia. I know a LOT of people who are MUCH happier with America at the reigns rather than China or Russia. D) If people REALLY dislike America so much why is everyone always trying to get in, yet hardly anyone ever leaves? And if you think that American policy is bad, just take a look at how other colonial powers treated their subordinates. The Americans, by contrast, have been exceedingly gracious. Yes, we are the Romans of our era, and being as such we will need to recognize that we are indeed an august nation and have certain responsibilities that others do not have. \_ "We are better than China and Russia. Hence you should support us in all that we do!" What a stupid logic. \_ America is not perfect, but it sure beats any and all alternatives thus far conceived by mankind.
 2004/11/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:34970 Activity:insanely high 11/18 The Vietnam War Crimes You Never Heard Of: http://www.vietnamwar.com/MyLai.htm (The Charlie Company) http://hnn.us/articles/1802.html http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/Research/HNatureProposalsArticles/RapeWarfare.html http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0438/turse.php \_ I can only assume you mean "I'm so out of touch, I've never heard of all these Vietnam War crimes." Since I'm pretty sure the rest of the civilized world has heard of them before. Pver and over, in fact.
 2004/11/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:34817 Activity:nil 11/10 When Vietnam vets came home (Soldiers being spit on is just an urban myth) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1276799/posts
 2004/11/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:34663 Activity:kinda low 11/4 Why aren't we more worried about Vladimir Putin? He's essentially made himself a dictator, Russia has the economy and the stability of a 3rd world country, and he controls 10,000 ICBMs, most of which are armed with MIRVs. This scares me. Someone convince me that I shouldn't be scared. \_ Why would he attack us? No motive, no crime. \_ The instability and economic wretchedness, combined with authoritarianism and tons of nuclear weapons, doesn't seem dangerous to you? Do you find Pakistan warm and cuddly too? \_ I never said I found Russia "warm and cuddly," but if you can't see a difference between Russia and Pakistan, you need to get out of CA for a bit. \_ I think many people are worried about him... its just that the powers that be have their hands tied in terms of criticism since he is using the same theatrics to justify his power grab that they are. \_ About Russian economy. I have lived there as well as in a real third-world country and I can tell you that people in Russia are far far better off than in a third world conutry, even the pension age people who depend on govt pensions. Their current per-capita GDP is about 9000/year in real terms. While this might not sound much, remember that most Russians own their housing. But you're right to be worried about Putin. I am worried about his authoritarian tendencies too, though I can sort of understand why he is so popular even right now. Russia has tried to liberalized its economy and politics too fast and chaos ensued in the early 90s, probably thanks to the incompetent policy of this drunkard Yeltsin and his cronies who were running the country behind his back. So when the Russians were choosing between Putin and the liberal democrats the last time, for them, it was like choosing between an authoritarian Putin who credibly promisses to return stability and the greatness to Russia or Yeltsin era chaos. They picked the former and he's obviously taking advantage of their goowill.. \_ http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/11/01/011.html It's only an excerpt, but if this doesn't get your bloodpressure up, I don't know what will.  2004/9/16-17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:33562 Activity:very high 9/16 http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/vol48no1/article06.html From cryptogram, ex-CIA on interrogation \_ Cool article, thanks for sharing. -John \_ Excellent, well written, makes some very good points. Thank you. \_ Jeez, I'm beaming like I wrote it myself. -op \_ good article. I think this article, as well as the September 1st school incident in Russia brought a bigger issue: What is a "terrorist?" Terrorist are defined by the tactic they use, not ideology they believe in. While this is relatively clear to most people in case of Vietnamese nationalist and Chechen rebel, I don't think USA has learn that our "terrorist enemy" are the result of our past 40 years of foreign policy in the middle east, from religious support of creation of Israel at the expense of Palestine, to overthrown of popular government in Iran. Without drastic change in our foreign policy, we will not able to end the reluntless attack from Islamic extremist. kngharv \_ Terrorists will attack us regardless of our foreign policy. They don't like the US for what it is -- a free and prosperous place not following Sharia law. If you want to make an argument for a change in US foreign policy, using islamic terrorists is not a good way to go. -- ilyas \_ You're saying they hate us because they hate our freedom? Utter nonsense. Our freedom and prosperity might get some two-bit mullah worked up, maybe he'll convince some young, impressionable losers to do a minor attack; but convincing a man to orphan his children, a normal young guy to give up his chance with that pretty girl at the market takes a lot more than "this old book says that freedom is bad". Even the WTC bombers were normal men once. You can't just call them crazy without wondering what got them there. \_ ob40Virgins \_ there was an interesting Kristof column recently which said that some modern scholars think this is a mis- translation, and that they really get white grapes, not virgins. \_ http://www.angelfire.com/folk/patriotscorner/72Virginians.html \_ They hate the products of our freedom. They are envious of our obvious prosperity, they are made insecure by the inroads our "culture" makes into theirs (viz. blue jeans and rock & roll helping bring down the Soviet Union), they (in the case of the islamists) have issues with our lack of restrictions on women, music, clothing, whatever, and to some degree they feel left behind by economic development. Consider that the "Arab world" has never undergone a sweeping renaissance or an enlightenment or an industrial revolution, combined with the fact that many countries spawning "terror" have a tremendous percentage of unemployed youth, susceptible to demagoguery. So yes, they hate our freedom. -John \_ If it wasn't for GWB, they would love our blue jeans and music and McDonald's and our freedom for women! GWB has ruined American credibility around the world for generations! \_ Well, they don't say 'freedom is bad.' To them following Sharia is freedom, while our kind of freedom is demonic depravity and corruption. We call this 'extremism,' but this was a normal train of thought a couple of hundred years ago in Europe. They are not exactly crazy in a sense of being mentally ill, they are just experiencing an 'outside context problem' (Ian Banks term), and are living in a world we can't understand very well. I am not excusing what they do -- they are of course wrong, and are doing evil. -- ilyas \_ (Responding to John and ilyas) Who are "they"? If "blue jeans and rock & roll" brought down the Soviet Union, why don't we send these instead of an invasion force? And if it's Islamic fundamentalism we are fighting, why did we invade Iraq, one of the more secular middle eastern states. And why are we sending billions of dollars to some of the most fundamentalist countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait? Perhaps nationalism and belief in self determination have more to do with the resistance we faced in Vietnam and are facing in Iraq than you would like to believe? Did the Vietnamese conduct any terrorist act on us after kicking us out? \_ Because Soviet Union wasn't stuck in a feudal mentality. You can't expect 'blue jeans' to work if it's unclear to someone that jeans are a good thing. A typical russian wasn't fooled by the propaganda. -- ilyas propaganda. As for the Vietnamese, they have no fundamental ideological problem with the West, whereas the muslims do. -- ilyas \_ Nice try to transition to Vietnam=Iraq but no dice. Please provide a URL for us *sending billions of dollars* to Suadi Arabia and Kuwait. We won militarily in Vietnam, despite being the most stupidly fought war in history. We lost Vietnam at home with people like Jane Fonda and John Kerry telling the American soldiers and people lies about our troops and the war. If self determination is the cause of resistence in Iraq then why are there foreign fighters there? Why didn't these self- determined people do anything at all for themselves during Hussein's reign of death? \_ Lies? Are you denying that soldiers didn't kill civilians and didn't commit atrocities? \_ They tried after the '91 war after Bush I promised support but then basically helped Saddam crush the insurgents. Have you ever led a military revolt? I'm sure if they had you around Saddam would have been toast. Moron. \_ The Vietnamese had been fighting against foreign colonizers for over 100 years, 400 if you count periodic Chinese incursions. We would never have "won" Vietnam, though we could still have troops fighting and dying there, if we really had the will. It might even be down to 1000/yr by now. Why would we possibly want to do that??? \_ ob40Virgins \_ there was an interesting Kristof column recently which said that some modern scholars think this is a mis- translation, and that they really get white grapes, not virgins. \_ http://www.angelfire.com/folk/patriotscorner/72Virginians.html \_ Terrorists kill civilians (on purpose). \_ But I thought that's why we went to iraq. So they could kill our soldiers instead of our civilians... \_ Yeah, Iraq is a big honeypot. People complain about the dead soldiers but if we hadn't gone there we'd have HUNDREDS of thousands of civilian deaths! If the stream of terrorists starts to trickle out, we should bomb some villages in Syria and other likely places to flush out more terrorists, like fleas from beating a rug. Eventually the terrorists will run out and we can go home! \_ You forgot to capitalize "thousands" Please tell me you're continuing the sarcasm and don't actually believe this... \_ So the Commander of The Allied bombing campaign in Europe during WWII was a terrorist? Dresden was known to be full of civilians. of civilians and had no legitimate military value. The firebombing was undertaken to break the "will" of the Germans to fight. Is that terrorism in your book? \_ If you kill civilians on purpose as a military leader and with a strategic purpose in mind, people start saying you are a war criminal. But it sticks less if you're on the winning side and the winning side is a democracy. Terrorists do it from a position of little power. War criminals do it from a position of great power. It's similar to "why is it racist when white people make fun of black people, but not so in reverse?" \_ Terrorism performed by national militaries isn't called terrorism. It is terrorism in fact though, and so was Hiroshima. There's no getting around it. (the key is deliberate vs. accidental civilian killing). \_ The U.S. dropped a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima, killing 80,000 civilians outright, to end the war early. This is a war crime under the current accepted definition. Because it ended the war early, and may have saved hundreds of thousands of American lives, and because Japan had attacked first -- many would argue it wasn't a war crime, or at least the definition should be refined so it excludes the 80,000 dead innocents in Hiroshima being a war crime. \_ Victor writes the history. Duh!  2004/9/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:33432 Activity:high 9/9 Why is Pakistan so nice to the US? What are we giving them? Funding? Weapons? Intelligence? \_ they tried to kill the general \_ only after he said he was the Dubya's best friend \_ the promise of destruction \_ money. without our money, their economy would collapse \_ I thought the deal was money for "counter-terror" which goes to buying toys for their army. \_ the only way to travel that remote countryside is with a thousand troops \_ Don't squish other people's posts! \_ The only way to post on the motd is with a thousand troops. \_ Because they are a bunch of cowards and doesn't have true democracy. Isn't it great that what we do are only supported by our puppet government or countries that doesn't have true democracy? \_ Money and legitamacy. \_ El Presidente de Pakistan sided with the U.S. post-9/11. The threat then was you were with us or against us. He did the right thing. That was when the U.S. had credibility. That was when the U.S. had credibility and also wasn't overextended. \_ You never hear about the white house complaining that Pakistan needs to be more democratic and that it was run by a dictator. So the US supports dictator, as long as they are with you. \_ We could have just told Stalin to go fuck himself during WW2. \_ Geopolitics. They need allies vs. India.  2004/8/19 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:33028 Activity:nil 8/19 Pakistan does it right: Torture is all these killers deserve! http://csua.org/u/8o6  2004/8/18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:32982 Activity:very high 8/17 Its nearly quarter to 11:00 and no Obsessive SwiftBoat Lunatic yet. Where are you OSL?! \_ He's on a conference call getting the new talking points for this week. \_ For your viewing pleasure, the cspan footage of the debate between John Kerry and John O'Neill on the Dick Cavett show in 1971: rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04_rwh081504.rm \_ Thank you OSL! \_ Don't know if I'm actually OSL, but I'd hate to disappoint. \_ When we pulled out of Vietnam, the dominoes never fell, which was our original reason for going there. \_ That could also mean that Vietnam was a success. \_ Are you any different if you're doing as much deleting as he is posting? Can we call you Obsessive SwiftBoat Censor Lunatic? \_ I'm not censoring anything... If people would stop censoring that idiot, maybe he would give up the ghost - I get the feeling he's one of those folks that thrives on any sort of attention, negative or positive. \_ The incorrect assumption that it's only one person could lead you to a false conclusion like this.  2004/8/2-3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:32643 Activity:insanely high 8/2 Very interesting article. It is now clear that we deliberately went to Vietnam by provoking the North Vietnamese: http://tinyurl.com/4t7kk (NPR) Listen to the full analysis. This is a far cry from the "Communist aggression" we've portraited for generations. \_ Old news, nothing new to see here. If you were actually alive during the 'Nam war you would've realized this. Time you went back to 20th Century American History 101. \_ Just like we provoked them in '75, when they subsequently slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Cambodians and millions deserted on rafts. You're a complete fool; a perfect Kerry voter. \_ Uhm, the Khmer Rouge/Vietnam war was at best a muddled affair. Don't know which was worse, Pol Pot killing 2 million or the Vietnamese coming in and slaughtering the Pol Pot regime. It's just a nasty business either way and just underscores how bad communism really was. \_ Pol Pot was a byproduct of France and the Communist Vietnamese and Chinese a perfect Kerry voter. \_ Here's another newsflash, LBJ was a DEMOCRAT! Oh my golly! \_ We thought it was Communism spread by the Soviet Union, but actually it was just a nationalist movement, which we would have not had a problem with. Oops! \_ We would not have had a problem with, except that we were there in the first place backing up the French, who felt they needed to reassert their roles as colonialists after WWII. If he had listened to Ho Chi Min and told France to stuff it's colonialism where the sun doesn't shine earlier, we could have saved everyone a lot of trouble. \_ Given that France has a tradition of anti-Americanism, why on earth did we try to save its ass in indochine? \_ Anti-Americanism?! The country that gave us the Statue of Liberty and helped us defeat the British? \_ Wrong France. Try again. Read a history book. \_ Which part are you disputing, idiot? \_ Read a history book, you ignorant slut. I dispute your historical comments. All of them. Know wtf you're talking about before calling someone an idiot. Go check the dates for the French Revolution. Idiot, indeed. \_ You dispute that France gave the Statue of Liberty to the US? Which country was France imitating with the revolution? Moron. \_ We wanted them to join NATO. \_ Live and learn. Frenchies get pretty friendly when they're getting their butt's kicked by Germans. \_ Actually 2/3 of Vietnam voted, yes voted, in an election to remain aligned with France. This was an unsatisfactory result for Ho Chi Min hence the civil war. What he could not obtain by election was taken by force. \_ That's a new one to me. Link? \_ It was not 'nationalist' movement. Ho Chi Min and the other cadre were laways tried and true Communists, even during WWII. The common foot soldier may have thought he was fighting for freedom, but as soon as the war was over he found out otherwise (as is always the case with these Communist insurrections). Of course anyone who then caused trouble was summarily shot. \_ "Want to do what I say, and you're free to do what you want." \_ While they were communists, my contention is that it was nationalism that is what actually mattered. They were not toadies of the Soviet Union.  2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:31116 Activity:very high 7/1 If democracy is so great, why are sodans still piss poor? Where the MAJORITY does not get represented, but rather the few elite and rich gets to control pretty much everything and the others are treated as 2nd, 3rd, 4th class citizen? Explain that to me. Most of the old officers you see on soda are from the higher class, so they are very different from your average user. What they need is a visionary leader that would abandon their class system, but under 'democracy', they never will. Some users will always be low class citizen, like slaves. \_ You're right, democracy is a big sham. The People must rule, although since we're too stupid our Great Leader will rule for us, in his magnificent benevolence! All hail the Great People's Leader! All dissidents are evil imperialist lackeys, and must be reported to your local People's Information Bureau at once! \_ America's a republic, not a pure democracy. Majority rule is not always a good thing. \_ I know nothing about India, but I will point out that no one ever claimed democracy was perfect, it's just the best thing we've come up with so far. Of course the perfect government would be a single person who always makes the right descisions. If you can find any such person, I will be happy to live under them. \_ see. Kingdom of God where God is King \_ We don't have the tech for a perfect society yet, even with perfect decisions. Right now rough edges are unavoidable, maybe this will change in a few hundred years. -- ilyas \_ Yeah, we'll write a computer program to rule us all. Like in the game Deus Ex. \_ That's not the problem. The problem is scarcity and insufficient understanding of genetics and aging. Those problems will eventually go away, and that is what will transform society, I think. -- ilyas \_ There's always scarcity of land, even if you somehow get free energy. This is worse if genetics and aging are solved. The western oil-economies are comparitively pretty rich today... I wonder what transformation you expect to see? \_ I heard a projection that the world's population will stabilize at 11 bil. Most advanced countries today are either breaking even or their population is declining (with the notable exception of the US, due to immigration and other 'exceptionalist' issues). We are not going to run out of land, that's 19th century Malthusian thought. The 'transformation' I am talking about will have to do with the elimination of most current political issues once certain kinds of economic scarcities go away. Our society is already very different because information can be copied at virtually no cost in time or money. -- ilyas \_ Well, I don't think birthrates can easily be predicted, and some land is likely to always be more desirable than others. Western families have to work to maintain their lifestyle and don't have much time. \_ You jest, but I think Ilya would actually suggest something along those lines - although I think his term was "benign dictator." \_ But we already have the Illuminati! \_ You don't seem to know much about India or Indian politics. Most of the people in power today are members of the lowest castes. Due to "enlightened" social policy (quota, &c.) most high paying powerful government jobs are available only to members of the lowest castes. These people, having little or no social conscience, do little to help their fellow man, prefering instead to shuttle public resources into their own private domains. own private domains. Its not that democracy doesn't work, it is that it does. India is full of low caste uneducated people and these are the same people who are ruling the nation. FYI, the elite of Indian society, the brahmins (about 1-2% of the population), were usually among the poorest of all (for various religious reasons). The idea that somehow they systematically oppressed and continue to oppress the lower classes/castes is ridiculous. In fact, most brahmins leave India because they find that the social setup makes it next to impossible for them to succeed. The only way in which I find that one may blame brahmins for the woes of India, is this: Nehru was a brahmin. He was stupid enough to implement a command economy instead of a open and free market. This ruined India for decades. Thus if one man represents his caste, it is possible to say that the brahmins ruined India. \-mr. anon above: just out of curiosity can you tell me where you "learned" all of this? it is so far off, it's not worth correcting but i am curious where it came from. --psb \_ My parents are from India. Some of my family is still there. I frequently visit there. I don't know which part you find issue with, but this is what I have seen and read about. \_ There is nasty affirmative action in India which makes it really really tough for Brahmins and Kshatriyas. Stupidity doesn't end at US borders, it seems. -- ilyas \_ Is it tougher for them than for members of the toilet sweeping and rat catcher castes? \_ As far as, for example, university admissions... yeah. Ask any indian. -- ilyas \_ how many indians have you asked? and did you ask them what their castes are? \_ I don't understand why this is relevant. Everyone I know who is from India says this. You can google for additional evidence on this. Do you think I am lying or something? Ask Partha. -- ilyas \_ I know there is something similar to affirmative action in India. Please explain why it is "nasty" and "stupid". And why it is "really really tough" for Brahmins. Do you really know enough about India to say that? \_ In the words of Tyler Durden: "This conversation is over." -- ilyas \_ difficult to admit you have no clue what you are talking about, eh? \_ yes. A brahmin needs close to a perfect score on an entrance exam, whereas a "rat catcher" only needs 25%. Do you really want water quality inspected by someone who got in with a 25%? How about your health inspectors? Sometimes it doesn't matter that you are "backwards", there needs to be min standards. \_ Are you a brahmin? If not, what caste are you from? And what is your caste all about? \_ Yes I am a brahmin.  2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:31109 Activity:low 7/1 http://www.awitness.org/news/december_2001/osama_nose_job.html  2004/6/26-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:31020 Activity:high 6/26 Why do we have sanctions on Cuba? \_ Because when Castro ousted Batista, he made ouvertures to the Kennedy government, who didn't like his leftist leanings. There followed a spiral of tit-for-tat, at some point the Cubans nationalized most corporate possessions, which the Americans didn't like, we organized and fucked-up an invasion, the Cubans got cozy with the Soviets, who put missiles there, which we risked a nuclear war to (successfully) get out. The sanctions came about in the early '60s to try and force Castro out of office, and have been propagated for a number of reasons, including not liking commies in our back yard, Cuban human rights violations, and obstinate right-wing Cuban expats in Florida. Look up the Helms- Burton act and the history of the United Fruit Company for starters. -John \_ I wouldn't call the Florida Cubans right wing. I would call them ardently anti-Castro. They're a one-platform political group. \_ To drive up the cost of Cuban cigars. \_ because we got pissed off by Cuba's decision to become an independent country than a colony of United States. \_Wow, time to get your head out of your ass and read up on basic 20th Century American history. How's the smell down there? \_ w00t! \_ how about next time you actually try to respond intelligently \_ hard to say,. I think we're just waiting for castro to die now. the cuba sanctions are pretty pointless \_ Again, it amazes one how clueless supposedly intelligent people are. We have sanctions against cuba because of the expatriot cuban vote in Florida. C'mon, guys, you can't be that behind politics in America, can you? \_ so the entire country has sanctions against cuba because of how a subset of floridians feel? i don't follow... \_ Cuba has been the Soviets client state throughout Castro's reign. On behalf of the Soviets Cubans trained many of the Arab terrorists we fight today and sent \_ judging by how much money we sent to pakistan and afghanistan, i bet we trained way more arab terrorists than the cubans. plus the soviets aren't a threat anymore, they all move to UCLA to be armchair historians. \_ That's what we want you to think. -- ilyas \_ You don't know what you are talking about. troops to Nicaraugua, Zaire, Angola, and Algeria, among others. The axis today between Castro, De Silva, and Chavez is destroying South America. \_ Chavez is in a lot of trouble. There's no doubt in my mind the US has a lot to do with it. US foreign policy successes (by their very nature) never get publicized until much much later. -- ilyas \_ you make laugh \_ He has something to say. You're a low grade troll. \_ Because we can, the best of all reasons. \- The US mania over cuba has consequences beyond bilateral relations and domestic politics. It's gone beyond "mere" mutual neglect. e.g. Helms-Burton. --psb \_ stupid. we *can* destroy the whole fucking world. but we don't. we *can* invade and take over all the annoying EU countries that needle us constantly. but we don't. we can do a lot of things that would be emotionally satisfying, but we don't. you're an idiot.  2004/5/18 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:30280 Activity:nil 5/18 On the draft: There are *no rules* for the draft. Each is unique. Just because they did XYZ in Vietnam or ABC in WWII doesn't mean they will do the same thing again in any future drafts. A future draft could cover any age range, could be in any order, could have any list of exemptions or none at all. *IF* there is a draft, they will determine the rules at the time. Anyone who tells you before that time that you are or are not draftable doesn't know what they're talking about. \_ You are right, they could start out by drafting 80 year old widows, but they probably won't. \_ All you future draft dodgers don't need to worry. Planning is being done so the U.S. has something in its back pocket in the event of a serious threat to national security: e.g., North Korea starts nuking, we end up in a war with China, Iran starts a conventional war with threat of nukes, Pakistan-India blows up, an oil-rich country is nuked, there is a coup which leads to any of these things, etc. If any of the above happens, conscription will be the least of your worries. \_ I'd love to believe our country is this strong. But considering that it only takes two small third-world countries, whose govts have already been toppled, to strain our military resources so badly, I wouldn't believe in this.  2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:30206 Activity:kinda low 5/13 Anti-oursourcing movement: http://tinyurl.com/29paf  2004/4/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:13370 Activity:nil 4/24 Hey, where is the long vietnam war thread? Did I miss any insights from psb? \- see http://csua.com for me vs AMC --psb \_ Wow. Pretty sad debate. I'm sure liberals and Democrats will be faulted for the failures in Iraq too. The next person to say Iraq == Vietnam needs to be slapped. \_ Yah -- the problem wasn't lefties or liberals, it was the 60's counter-culture and 'free love' social phenomenon. Without the support of the people, the government was never able to muster sufficient support for our (better trained, better equipped) troops to hold onto any tangible victory. It was a pretty sad conflict. Though there may be some peripheral similarities to Vietnam, the conflict in Iraq actually has a fair degree of popular support. \_ And the guerilla warfare, lack of clear goals, lack of cooperation between the branches, and an utter lack of what would constitute winning the war certainly didn't help. Now, which war am I talking about? \_ Stop. Stop right there. Vietnam and Iraq are two different wars being fought for different reasons in different parts of the world with different goals in mind. They are DIFFERENT! \_ Clear goal: democracy in iraq. What would constitute winning the war: democracy in iraq. Utter lack of cooperation between the branches: source-p. You are repeating things you heard without thinking. \_ That's a clear POLITICAL goal. What's the clear MILITARY goal? We had a clear political goal in Vietnam too. \_ The Vietnam war had huge amounts of support until people started doubting the bright and sunny forecasts and began to see the effects on the vets returning. \_ What made Vietnam so terrible was the fact that everything that could be screwed up there, was. Eisenhower screwed 'Nam for the French, JFK wouldn't let it die, LBJ tried to micromanage it, and made the rules of engagement ridiculous. Nixon took a shot a fixing things, but popular support was gone, so he finally gave up, only to have congress completely screw Vietnam over so the South couldn't continue fighting on it's own. We've screwed somethings up in Iraq, but it's still nowhere near 'Nam. Stop smokin' so much pot and come back to reality. \_ No. What makes Vietnam so terrible *for Americans* was retreat after so many years of war. Had Vietnam somehow stablized into a situation akin to Korea, it would have been touted as a huge success. The Vietnamese have their own view of the conflict in their country. POV is important here. \_ It's a bird, it's a plane, no it's "Captain Obvious!" \_ Believe me, if there was an option not to retreat, we would've stayed. Despite what you hear in the 'free media', we retreated because the PRC was engaged in the war and we had no other choice. We retreated and and established diplomatic relationship with the PRC. It was the only exit strategy. The PRC can afford keep fighting the war, we can't. We also 'gave' up Taiwan alone with Vietnam. You honestly think we would've done so if we had a choice? So don't just say "oh why did we retreat", it's like saying, oh why did we use the A-bomb. We did because we have no other choice.  2004/4/24-25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:13365 Activity:nil 4/23 Yeah, you counter-culture beatniks really emote the truth with these so-called pics of dead serviceman at http://thememoryhole.org http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/23/iraq.photographs.nasa.reut/index.html I hope when YOU are dead, they showed pictures of YOUR CASKET. I am just glad it won't be blessed with an American flag. \_ Here you have before you a live Bush supporter. Don't get too close, they bite! \_ you're just saying that liberal crap because you don't really understand the policy. this should clear it up: http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/102403.asp \_ despite the policy, i do wonder where all those corpses go \_ the *only* reason that these photos (or video) are not released is so that public opinion does not turn against any post-vietnam war. the gov't doesn't give a shit about families feelings, let alone their health (e.g., agent orange, gulf war syndrome, etc). Don't fool yourself into always accepting the gov't line. "Trust no one". -Mulder \_ Talk to some of their families, who say they want the public to know how many are dying. \_ Look. It's understandable that military families don't want to lose loved ones, but this is how war is. I am sure _some_ of the military families dislike Bush and his policies, but so what? The public is fully aware of how many are dying, it's being trumpeted by CNN every single fucking day. At any rate, 50,000 >>> 700. \_ where do you get your 50k figure? about 4 MILLION died in the vietnam war. \_ 50k combat US deaths, about 60k total US deaths around Vietnam. Did you notice that this thread was talking about US casualties, not total casualties? \_ Are you counting the *entire* Vietnam war which includes the time the French were there and we weren't? It was roughly 2m Vietnamese dead during the time the US was there. 40:1 is pretty god damned good. This was a war lost at home, not in the field. If we "lose" in Iraq it won't be because we lost on the ground. As usual it will be lost at home because of people like you. \- Mr. D. Ass: wars are about achieving your political objective, not maximizing your own to enemy casualty rate. Rather than win/lose, ask yourself what was the point of the US involvement and then answer whether that goal was achieved and eval whether it was "successful" on those terms. While you are at it, you may want to look up what city SGN is the airport code for. "Let me speak honestly, frankly, -Le Duc Tho to openheartedly. You are a liar." Super K --psb \_ Uhm...did you even read the post you're replying to? I think you just reiterated his point, only with a bunch of lame ad hominem thrown in. \_ Talk about missing the point.... After the Tet Offensive, the leftists in America forced us to finally leave, when in fact that very same assault was beaten back with minimal American losses and truly devastating losses to the enemy. After the TO the enemy had no reserves or military strength. The war was over. We had won. Except we didn't because it was lost at home. We walked away after one of the biggest military victories in history and chalked up the whole thing as a military and political loss. There was never a military loss. The political loss was caused by people like the person I replied to above, at home. --that poster above \- explaining why the war unfolded as it did or what were the side effects of the war whike interesting history is diff q than "was the war a success". if the war was conducted to prevent a communist victory, well that didnt happen, did it. you can say "enough was done to prevent the dominos from falling" but that also opens the response that "the domino theory as stated was wrong" since marginal changes in the balance of power didnt seem to be destabilizing. so you tell me first "what was the point of the american intervention in vietnam"? and then we'll talk about whether that was successful. Obviously the North won' the Civil War in the sense that the union was preserved, slavery abolished, and ante- bellum souther culture and economics changed. However, the Union also had vastly higher wounded/killed. --psb \_ Good duck. Back to the point: if we had stayed after the TO and not let ourselves be mislead by the left in this country, the North would have been beaten back and Vietnam would most likely be a mirror of what SK has become today. Democratic, industrial, capitalist, generally successful. We won Vietnam on the ground, but lost it at home. \_ S. Vietnam invaded, Cambodia invaded, Afghanistan invaded, Angola and Mozambique Communist revolutions, Nicarauga communist revolution ... seems to me the domino theory was right. The Soviets realized they could not contest NATO in Europe so they pursued the third world. This is history of the Cold War 101. \- how did any of these affect US security? do you think the break down of sino-soviet harmony in the 1960, becoming smewhat open with the conflict on the ussuri river caused the a shift in the balance of power between E and W? If the "loss of china" didnt cause much security problems for the SU, dont you think it is odd to suggest angola, nic. cuba etc especially mattered in terms of the "big picture"? afganistan arguably was a bit of a change in doctrine. --psb \_ If you can't formulate an explanation yourself I don't think there's much point in explaining it. But Afghanistan for example offered a land bridge to the middle east and the goal was the warm water ports of Pakistan. The outlook was pretty bleak for the US in the 1970s. \- On vietnam see Leslie Gelb and Richard K Betts: The Irony of Vietnam and Bernard Brodie, War and Politics ... "many grave ... decisions concerning 'nam were made on assumptions or premises which would not withstand any kind of logical scrutiny but were simply never challenged" ... e.g. domino theory. For similar on say Afganistan see Stephen Van Evera's ppr called something like "why states believe stupid things." Of course Waltz'79 is an exceptional book. It has a reference: "as some saw early in the struggle, and as most saw later on, in terms of global politics little was at stake in vietnam (Steossinger'76, Chap 8, shows this was Kissinger's view)." --psb \_ Quoting a bunch of folks out of context doesn't add anything or make a point. It does kind of turn me on though and makes you look very pseudo brainy. Can I have your love child? \_ Let me get this straight: with 30 years of hindsight, you honestly believe that Vietnam was a war worth fighting? That we should have stuck it out just to put yet another notch in the win column? I find that appalling, and I'd like to know-- why? \_ I am not the poster above, but whether Vietnam was worth fighting depends on whether you believe the containment strategy was a good idea. It's a good question, and I am not sure I know the answer. Certainly rejecting Vietnam as a bad idea just because a lot of people died seems wrong. -- ilyas \_ I am not the poster above. While containment is arguably an ok idea, Vietnam turned out to be a bad place to do it. American arrogance and racism alienating the Vietnamese did not help. Should've recognized the mistake and futility earlier and taken a step back and done the containment at the border of Thailand. \_ Your argument is different from the guy above you, he says: "Vietnam itself was a bad war", while you say something much weaker: "Vietnam execution had mistakes". Certainly this is true. I don't believe there was institutional racism in Vietnam, but I am not a student of that war (I find it to be kind of a boring war, in fact I find all American wars to be boring for some reason). -- ilyas \_ Sure, but execution is almost everything. Your execution should not be contrary to your purpose for the war. Also, one has to ask if US's concern for the livelihood of the Vietnamese or just view it as a pawn in a global fight against communism. Did US really cared if 1 million or 4 million vietnamese died? At that point in time racism was still institutionalized in America itself, why do you not believe it's in Vietnam too? \_ 25 million Russians and 10 million Germans died in WWII - was this also a racist war? As with all Communist insurrections, the war is cast in terms national liberation by a cadre at the top. Once the fighting has ended the common people and footsoldiers realize they have been duped and, if they are not subsequently assasinated, find themselves living as serfs in a totalitarian society. \_ Nazi belief in racial superiority certainly played a role in the decision to invade Russia. I don't know what you mean by "racist war". I did not say that racism is the sole driver of the wars. \_ Vietnam was conceptually similar to Korea - was the Korean War a good idea? Considering S. Korea is the 11th largest economy in the world I'd say so. Vietnam was won. South Vietnam was free and democratic for two years until the leftists in Congress that Kerry epitomized decided to withdrawl all military and financial support to Saigon. N. Vietnam, backed by the Soviets and China, violated the Treaty of Paris and invaded not only S. Vietnam but also Cambodia. \_ your arithmetic expressions holds true. so at what point are the deaths too much? 7000? \_ One wonders if the US pulled out of Vietnam due to casualty aversion or something else. -- ilyas \_ Because of leftists in gov't and Congress. \_ Yeah, this is just like Vietnam. \_ Soldiers who die in the line of duty deserve to be honored, both in private ceremonies and in public. There is no shame in dying for your country, nor is there shame in sending men and women to die for their country. Either take pride in them and honor them publicly, or admit that you have not the courage of your convictions and you've asked them to die for a farce. \_ there is plenty of shame in sending men and women to die needlessly for their country. \_ Don't blame the soldier, blame the Commander(s) in Chief \_ Starting with jimmie carter who proved to the islamic fascists that terrorism can work again a super power. \_ rofl, terrorism has always worked. most rebellions start out as "terrorism"  2004/3/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12895 Activity:kinda low 3/27 Has anyone bought travel health insurance before for a trip to another country (especially for third-world countries like ghana, india, etc)? Do you recommend it? \_ yes. \- are you trying to insure against digestive meltdown or hepatitis or motorcycle accident? are you looking for travel insurance that will evacuate you by helicopter from the backwaters of nepal? i'm not sure you need much more than a bottle of cipro and some local intelligence. --psb \_ how about Maoist insurgance in Nepal :p  2004/2/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12218 Activity:high 61%like:10955 2/11 Colin Powell losing it: (buh-bye legacy!) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34636-2004Feb11.html \_ "Losing it" != telling off insolent, disrespectful idiots during a formal hearing, at which you are expected to conform to rules of order. It would have been equally correct of Clinton to go off on someone treating him this way when answering a question posed by some drooling old congressman about "where he stuck that cigar". -John \_ yes, but can you give an example where Clinton went off like that? And if he did, wouldn't you also think Clinton was on uncertain footing when he did tell someone off? -anonymous coward & op \_ Hmm, Colin Powell vs. anonymous adolescent on MOTD in support of insolent pages and socialists? I'll stick with member of the lowest profession earth? I'll stick with Powell thanks. \_ Powell? Losing it? Racist. I'll bet you've spent time trying to fabricate dirt on Condi, too. \_ IMO, he's losing it. I think he's saluting the flag, and getting pretty irritated at the prospect of the tarnishing of his reputation from loyalty to Bush. Also, IMO, if you ever find yourself using the phrase "let's not go there", you've already Powell thanks. fabricate dirt on Condi, too. lost. -op  2004/2/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12200 Activity:very high 2/10 I've been seeing a lot in the news about outsourcing IT jobs recently, but nobody ever brings up economic arguments about how free trade benefits everyone. To me it seems like the best thing for the US would be to allow outsourcing and use taxes from increased corporate profits to help temporarily displaced workers. Any thoughts on why all the outsourcing arguments are emotional outbursts instead of rational economic arguments? \_ It's money going into foreign economies, to be used there. I don't know how increased corporate profits really leads to increased tax intake... my impression is that any corp worth its salt will create a shelter around the outsourced call center so that the CC can report great profits without being taxed at the US rate. Can somebody back me up or correct me? \_ Actually no. For various reasons, foreign economies, esp. those 3rd countries that you are worried about outsourcing to, have a historical difficulty in keeping money in their own country, and it is not getting any better. In fact this is one reason driving them so hard to keep exporting and getting sourced -- just to keep afloat, barely. \_ Temporarily replaced until what? They get a burger flipping job? But oh yeah even McDonald's was closing storefronts and laying off people. What could be worse than getting laid off from McD's? These are not American companies. They are vast multinational corporations with no concern or regard for this or any other country's people. Profit is God and it isn't being put back into the economy in a useful way. How did HP eating Compaq, laying off 10's of thousands of Americans and moving their jobs to India help Americans? \_ Are you saying Carly Fiorina isn't American? \_ I understand what CF owes to her kids. I understand what she owes to her shareholders. I understand what she owes to her neighbors and secretary and employees. Can you explain to be what special duties she owes to Americans? Does she have some special obligation also to say white people? --psb \_ Partha, you're an American. From this we can prove \- how do you figure that? my point being if you \- how do you figure that? my point is: if you feel she/HP owe something to "all americans" because they are "more like" americans, then why doenst this apply to race? i would like you' to argue why race and nationality should be trated differently ... or fess up that they are equally valid moral categories based on which to treat people differently. --psb \_ I would say that distinguishing CF from the entity of HP dilutes the point. The point is the corporation is operating in this country. It reaps benefits from this country and its stability. We should have the balls to say "If you don't employ people here, you should be paying higher taxes." -scotsman \_ So you're not an American? Then wtf are you doing here then? Go back to your own country. \_ He might be a permanent resident which would mean that he isn't an American, but he has every right to remain here provided he does not commit a deportable offense. \_ Race: a function of genetics. Nationality: a function of social grouping. I'd argue that race is less important than nationality on that basis, and that nationality is less important than tribe, and that tribe is less important than family. Depending on the level of nurture/support you received from those levels, you could conceivably swap them around, with the exception of Race, which may form the tenuous basis for initial social interaction, but which does not inform or impose social groups/interactions on its own. Again, depending on the level of support/nurture you receive, your loyalty to the various levels in the hiearchy may also vary. CF owes no moral duty to other white people (or, for that matter, women); she does owe a moral duty to America for providing her with a socio-economic environment conducive to satisfying her corporate greed. As a captain of industry, it is her duty to perpetuate the corporate industrial model by providing jobs and strenghtening the economy. \_ You've contradicted yourself with your own arguement. Sure, a CEO *should* show loyalty to their nation. However, their tribe, the tribe of CEOs and other members of the plunderer class holds far more loyalty from its members than nations do from their citizens. Which is why we need laws, and which is why the world would be a better place if the motd libertarians would just fucking keel over and die. \_ *shrug* I never argued that a person should owe loyalty to their nation over the loyalty owed to their tribe. I simply argued that the duty to Nation is more morally justifiable than the duty to Race. that not all Americans are white people. In addition, Prince Charles is a white person. From this we can prove that not all white people are Americans. Having dispensed with the mythical relationship between being white and being American, we can now move to the specifics: CF is American and her kids are Americans. Therefore, anything that CF does to increase her bottom line benefits Americans, regardless of whether she has some special duty to do so. \_ Your sound like a classic Marxist-Leninist class warrior, who believes wealth is redistributed rather than created. I am not fond of Bush yet if it would be truly disastrous should we replace him by a protectionist demagogue. Economy by its very nature has ups and downs. Why didn't we complain when the time was too good? Are we too spoiled to adapt and create? Besides, other than psychological stress, do you know anyone who is suffering horribly (homeless in People's park don't count - they never did.) \_ Why don't the homeless count? How about other poor people? How about the guy who is raped nightly in prison? \_ Well, it helped in that we can now buy computers for something like500 instead of $2000. More people own them now than ever and are proficient in using them. Is losing those high-paid R&D jobs worth it (ex DEC guys)? The answer is that it depends. \_ This conversation is funny because you guys are all talking about jobs which YOU hold that could be the target of such outsourcing, and you're goofing off at work to talk about it. Get back to work, drones. \_ These responses are perfect examples of what I'm wondering about. Imagine that everyone in the US can produce either 8 sodas per day or 2 pizzas per day while people in India can produce 1 soda per day or 4 pizzas per day. If people in the US refuse to allow outsourcing then all Americans must make do with s/8+p/2 <= 1 (where s is number of sodas and p is number of pizzas). If we allow outsourcing so that Indians specialize in pizzas and Americans specialize in sodas which are traded 1-to-1 then Americans can have s/8+p/4 <= 1. Thus Americans *benefit* (You can show that Indians benefit too). The end result turns out the same pretty much no matter what numbers you plug in. Essentially everyone benefits by spending their labor on what they are best at. Of course, this model ignores things like American pizza maker's being put out of work when pizza making moves to India. But the solution to that would seem to be to use tax revenues to retrain them so that everyone is better off.-op \_ Retrain them for what? These are American companies setting up shop in other countries (basically international co's). So the skill and knowhow are transferred, while labor, tax, environmental etc. regulations are better for them and wages are dirt cheap. Labor itself is a tradeable good, which puts downward competitive pressure on labor standards. Without protection, regular American workers can't be competitive with other countries willing to have lower standards, as over time the competitive advantage in skills narrows and disappears. US still has the advantage in certain tech areas and research, but that's not a broad employment area and corps can just use that here with minimum investment in the economy. \_ Retrain them for jobs in the medical profession for example. We have a shortage of doctors in this country. If another country can do something dirt cheap then why not let them do it cheaply and spend our effort on higher value products? The money saved by outsourcing to India can be used to make our economy stronger by investing in research, education, science, etc. Why not take the$70K IT job and ship it to India for $20K and spend the$50K on training the former IT worker to do something even more productive like discovering a cure for cancer? -op \_ White collar jobs being outsourced to India aren't being sent there because Indians do it better, but because Indians will do it for less. You really just explained why trade is good. \_ I realize that, but this was simpler to show quickly. Like I said, no matter how you set things up, free trade usually benefits everyone. My point was that I can't these good economic argument against outsourcing as long as some provision is made for temporarily displaced workers (e.g., retraining, education, unemployment). -op \_ "free trade" does not benefit everyone. There are winners and losers. Ask Detroit if they benefited from the mad rush of manufacturing jobs overseas. It benefits shareholders and CEOs. Probably overall hurts the working and middle classes. \_ I agree that Detroit is an example of what can go wrong with free trade. But I fault our society and government for not making the effort to retrain and educate former auto workers for careers in better professions. If they had done that, we would have cheaper foreign cars and more prosperous workers.-op \_ Our middle class was built on a robust manufacturing economy. That economy was outsourced, causing massive upheavals of all sorts and lots of Bad Stuff (c.f. 1970s, early '80s). It was replaced by a service economy that now seems to be in the early stages of being outsourced. What I'm wondering is twofold: What are the consequences, economically and socially, of another such upheaval, and what will replace the service economy? Another way of putting the first part of the question is, "Have you ever seen what happened to Detroit?" Free trade definitely has its benefits, and I'm in favor of it with some caveats, but keep in mind its a CHOICE, not an inevitability, and I think it benefits some much more than others. \_ The borrow-from-the-Chinese economy. \_ The middle/upper management economy. \_ So do those of you who oppose IT outsourcing buy American? If not, why is it OK for you to buy foreign cars, clothes, or electronics but not OK for a company to offer cheaper service by outsourcing IT jobs? I'm curious since a good response would let me drive my Toyota, oppose outsourcing, and sleep well at night.
 2004/2/10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12191 Activity:nil 2/10 According to the McKinsey Global Institute, offshoring will benefit the US by saving money (which can be passed on to the customer or the investor, and you guess which one is more likely to see the money) and by creating wealth overseas that will be used to buy products from the US: http://csua.org/u/5xg (Economic Times of India) How does this make any sense? Why wouldn't offshorers take their wages and invest them locally (i.e., buy knock-off CDs and DVDs) instead of paying US prices for goods? \_ Don't worry. The invisible hand will make everything right. \_ No, it doesn't make any sense. The report is easily shredded. This is just PR puffery from Indian IT firms. \_ This PR Puffery is echoed by the bush administration. \_ Yes, so? What's that have to do with the OP's questions? Are you trying to say that because the current administration says something is true makes it true? Think for yourself for once.
 2004/1/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12023 Activity:very high 1/29 Ah, our good friends and allies... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/24/terror/main595582.shtml \_ Mussharif is only holding onto power by his fingernails. If he let in US troops that would be the end of him. \_ so who exactly is booting him out and why would they be successful? \_ Good grief. Just go read about the past couple of years in Pakistan in your favorite news venue. \_ I have. I read a lot of hysteria, and it's tough to know how exposed leaders of state actually are in foreign countries. \_ So you can't figure it out yet you call it hysteria? I think 2 assassination attempts in a week is not hysteria. Maybe you've got a stronger stomach than me and Mussharraf. \_ how about the nearly weekly assassination attempts, blamed on Al-Queda/Taliban folks? \_ One could say Musharraf is on the verge of getting killed, or he has quashed the radicals responsible and tightened security. Now which argument is valid? \_ Having survived 2 very close assassination attempts very recently it is unlikely he has magically quashed the radicals responsible since then. Now which argument is valid? \_ for those who think we've always care about democracy. This Mussharif guy is someone who overthrew a democratic elected government at first place. He is a prime example of "as long as you are pro-American, we don't really care what you do." \_ "for those who"... no one thinks we've "always care about democracy". that's a big fat straw man. \_ do you acknowledge that it was a bloodless coup, that the democratically-elected leader was corrupt, and that Musharraf could just have easily not supported the U.S. strike against the Taliban? \_ Pakistan needed an ally to offset India/China. That has nothing to do with the above line stating that this is some wonderland where we always do the moral thing just because it is the moral thing. No one believes that. It is, as I said, a big fat strawman and now you're just trying, and failing, to change the subject. \_ Pakistan has one of the best spy agency outside the super-power state. I really think Mussharif knows a lot more than he is willing to admit. \- i suspect pakistan's spy agency as a pretty limited set of objectives. --psb \_ 1) know what India is doing, 2) protect bin Laden and other al Qaeda people, 3) know what is going on in the disputed territories, 4) fuck shit up in disputed territories, 5) send hit squads into Indian parliament. 5 isn't so many, I guess.
 2004/1/14-15 [Recreation/Food, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:11789 Activity:high 1/14 I thought everyone in the bay area knows about pho: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/01/14/FDGSV467631.DTL \_ careful, Mad Cow'd soup bones where used by Vietnamese Restaurants in Bay Area \_ I didn't know about them until I started working at a mostly Vietnamese company about three years back. \_ I didn't know about them until I started working at a mostly Vietnamese company about three years back. \_ I don't like Viets but I must say Pho is one of those few cool things they have contributed to this society. \_ This place down the street from my place is called PHO KING. I went in thinking I was going to get some sucky sucky from some nice slender Viet girl, but to my surprise all they were selling was some big bowls of noodles and beef. \_ racist joke \_ How do you pronounce PHO KING? FUH-KING? \_ Assuming you're being serious, Fo King \_ There is a place in Milpitas or so called "Pho Kim Long" \_ Little do you know, it is actually pronounced like "fuh". http://mlug.missouri.edu/~markrages/static/pho/phopage.html \_ fuhk. \_ you're so clever, you got the joke! \_ There is a place in Milpitas or so called "Pho Kim Long"
 2003/11/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10915 Activity:nil 11/3 Iraq: Another Vietnam? http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB106782123961984600,00.html \_ Yes, everything is Vietnam. I can't wait until the hippie/yuppie generation retires and we can put their drug induced buggaboos to rest. Don't trust anyone over 30. \_ Gulf War I, I don't think anyone disagrees about that not being a Vietnam \_ Actually before the war, there was alot of Vietnam talk when people weren't sure if the UN was going to occupy Iraq. \_ Groan. The Tet offensive misinterpreted again. It was a big victory for the US forces, but came on the heels of LBJ declaring the war nearly over and talking possible troop pullback. Instead, more troops were deployed and the US was stuck for another five years. Iraq is NOT Vietnam. Somalia is NOT Vietnam. Bosnia is NOT Vietnam. Grenada, Haiti, Panama ... NOT Vietnam. Damn Boomers. \_ yea, but it's looking like the type of urban warfare we have stated right from the start that we would try to avoid at all cost. \_ True, but the article refers to telling the "truth" about Iraq and compares it to "Tet" as if to say "if only the American public knew the TRUTH, we would have won Vietnam." Correspondingly, if America knows the TRUTH about Iraq, we would win. This at a time where the Administration is refusing to release info on everything from energy policy to threat memos concerning 9/11. TRUTH is so subjective. \_ If Americans knew the truth about Iraq we wouldn't be there. \_ If Americans knew the truth, we would've done it right in '91 instead of playing global politic. \_ The TRUTH is out there. \_ so's yermom \_ IFILE! \_ It does my taxes? \_ IRS! \_ Where are they going to put the monument to all the dead American soldiers? Isn't The Mall getting kind of full??? \_ Maybe they'll stick some Post-It notes with the names on them on the Vietnam Memorial. \_ Why should there be? You do know that the KIAs from WWII don't have a monument of any sort, right?
 2003/11/1-2 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Shopping, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10896 Activity:kinda low 10/31 Oh great. A Vietnamese man just bought my building and has now cancelled the property management firm, the cleaning contract, and the pest control contract. He claims he can do it all himself. There are 19 units and over 30 people in the building. This is stupid - 5 years ago they finally beat back the roach invasion and now this chump is going to let them back in? Why is he so cheap?! \_ why do you still live in the Bay Area?! \_ Where do you live? And who do you work for? \_ Vietnamese people are always cheap. They are your worst nightmare as your employee (stupid) and your landlord (cheap). They're also your worst roomates (dirty). I'm speaking from personal experience. Do yourself a favor and move out ASAP. \_ I've got 7 months left on my lease. ARGH! \_ You can break lease and move now or wait and pay double in 7 months after the economy improves. Or you could kill him. \_ um, how are we vietnamese dirty? \_ heh, you'll accept stupid and cheap but dirty isn't ok? \_ ha that's pretty funny. Anyways, how come Vietcongese bashing is ok but black/white/jews bashing gets trashed by motd custodians? Is it because our custodians don't like Viets as well? \_ No, b/w/j bashing mostly causes the flamefest intended by the trolls posting. When that section of the motd grows to 5 pages, it gets deleted. \_ Edit it yourself. I like Vietnamese so well I married one, I just don't see the need to censor idiots. It is better to let the world see how stupid the bigots really are. \_ sheesh, what a bigot! \_ Property management firms ... snicker. Those are usually run by lazy, incompetent know-nothing do-nothing english major suit-wearing money-grabbers who think they are entitled to a high fee without providing any service. Of course he should fire them and cut some fat. Helps the economy, if nothing else. \_ I have yet to see an exception to the rule you state. \_ personal experience: management company did what was needed to be done at my apartment complex. it was very industrial and there was no personal touch to anything but stuff got done. i moved from there to another complex run by the one-owner-guy and it was a big fucking filthy broken mess and a fire hazard to boot! i'll take a prop. management firm anyday. \_ I think you mean "industrious." \_ no, I mean industrial. exactly like I said. thanks. \_ At least your landlord wasn't the Lucky Reddy dude who bring indian peasant girls to the country to serve as sex slave and to help clean the apartment buildings. \_ If you're not an Indian peasant girl what do you care?
 2003/10/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10856 Activity:nil 10/29 How do I find archived news on CNN finance? I'm having problems researching news on past dot coms, thanks. \_ try http://fuckedcompany.com
 2003/10/8 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10523 Activity:nil 10/7 Despite being hit the hardest in terms of the economy, 60% of Bay Area voters voted no on the recall. Now the movie begins. \_ What gave you the idea that the BA was hardest hit? H1bs going back to India don't count. \_ http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2003/04/07/daily66.html?f=et79 \_ Most of them came here specifically for dotcom jobs when the rate was under 2% and when they go home the rate will look normal again. \_ do you count jobs going to India? \_ Jobs not here are jobs not here. I really don't understand what you're getting at. \_ http://csua.org/u/4n2
 2003/9/23 [Finance/CC, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10289 Activity:nil 9/22 I've had 2 Vietnamese roomates so far and I think they're AWFUL. They are dirty, lie about bills, and one of them is a thief (stole my credit card number and used them to order stuff sent to their homes in San Diego). I think of all the Asians out there, the Vietnamese people are amongst them one of the nastiest out there. I'm not saying ALL VCs are bad, just that in my personal experience many of them are. Also, I'm not saying that they're genetically inferior-- their behaviour is mostly defined by their background, and their refugee background is most likely what makes them what they are. Roomates, beware, and good luck to you all. \_ watch out for philipinos too
 2003/4/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:28007 Activity:insanely high 4/5 What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is brought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy? - Gandhi \_ Gandhi was a British subject, disgruntled because he could not become an officer, who slept with preteen girls in the nude, was fixated on his own feces, gave tacit approval of the wholesale slaughter of Muslims after independence, advised the Jews of the Holocaust to go quietly, and was a supporter of the caste system. \_ Interesting; could you cite a few sources? \_ So what? Look up ad hominem. \- i imagine this is a troll, but in case it leaves some of with mistaken impressions: 1. he was a british subject as a consequence of birth. g. washington was also a british subject. 2. "couldnt not become an officer" ... "yes, g. washington also was disgruntled because he couldnt become archbishop of canterbury" 3. girls and feces ... feces not quite right. something possibly to the girl stuff. i dont think there was any accusation of molestation. YMWT(see) the play "gandhi vs. the mahatma". 4. muslim: the main reason i replied. that is 100% opposite to the actual state of affiars. 5. jews: dunno the answer there 6. caste system: more complicated than that People in india have much more complicated and diverse reactions and mpression of Gandhi in india. I dont think much of this particular quites but he has some others that much of this particular quote but he has some others that arent to be believed slavishly but worth thinking about. \_ You want a real answer? The answer is that it doesn't matter to the dead, but for millions of others who didn't get dead it matters a lot. It's a naive and childish but catchy little quote. \_ It matters to me, if I get a good paying job because the economy improves because market and consumer confience recovers because of a decisive military victory for whatever reason and because, in time, we will have virtually unlimited supply of fuel. \_ In time we will have a virtually unlimited supply of fuel, but not because of Iraq or the war. Rather the source will be our own waste coverted to fuel via a fast depolymerization process (see this month's discover for more info). \_ moron... in time, we will only be running out of fossil fuel. \_ The world has 2000-4000 years worth of coal, much of which is in the U.S. Probably a good 200 years of oil, also. I'm not advocating relying on fossil fuels, which is a bad idea for alot of reasons, but we're not running out any time soon. \_ on the contrary, estimates of oil reserves can vary widely. there are those who think oil will run out by the 2050's. I.e. well within your projected lifetime. \_ 2000+ years coal and 200 years oil!? Are you serious? URL for sources please? \_ I got those numbers from a UN report, which is available on the web, but I can't find it right now. if you're patient, I'll post it tomorrow, when I can ask the guy who showed it to me(I'll post it anyway.)
 2003/3/27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:27872 Activity:nil 3/26 What the Slimes were saying about Afghanistan after 3 weeks - NY Times article entitled: Quagmire Recalled: Afghanistan as Vietnam http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/876504/posts \_ What part of that article doesn't still hold true? The Vietnam comparison was weak, but it basically says that * the war is going more slowly than hoped * real ground troops are required * air power / special ops are not enough * setting up a new government will be difficult All of this has been borne out. The country is still controlled by warlords in nearly every area; there are still many terrorist hideouts that can't be searched by a small force, and the special ops teams are spread too thin. \_ No one said it would turn into the flower of central asian democracy in a week. I see no problems there that time won't cure. \_ time and support, yes. I'm not saying the situation is horrible. But the article was right. We did need regular troops, and those troops were sent. Not enough, because of Iraq. \_ They were wrong on every account. The Afghan national army was being trained, and is now making progress.
 2003/3/26 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:27867 Activity:nil 3/26 Petition to get India a permanent seat on the UNSC: http://www.sulekha.com/un \_ what possible benefit would that be to anyone but India? \_ I doubt Pakistan would be happy with that. Do you really want a nuclear war in asia? \_ How about a petition to re-org the UNSC since it's entirely anachronistic and idiotic in today's world as it's formed now?
 2003/1/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:27248 Activity:nil 1/30 hola, i am no expert on indian politics but this seems an interesting development. --psb http://csua.org/u/8a3 \_ Another critical foreign policy issue for the Bush administration. I have a bad feeling about this. \_ Quite an enjoyer of global politics as spectator sport, aren't you? \_ This is very kewl. Thanks, Partha! -psb #3 fan \- you know, this brings a new meaning to: --psb ### guardians of the revolution in great white satan amerikkka komiteh-owner: hojjat-al-islam-psb komiteh: payam, ali, psb, allenp, abe revolutionary-guards: komiteh ayatollah-khomeini: ali ayatollah-montazeri: payam ayatollah-beheshti: allenp hojjat-al-islam-psb: psb \_ Maybe they'll finally nuke each other and get it over with.
 2003/1/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26978 Activity:moderate 1/3 hola, does anyone know of any chinese/vietanese bakeries and vietnamese sandwich shops [like saigon sandwich at larkin and eddy] in OAK downtown? i have to meet someone on franklin st on fri --psb \_ Franklin and 6th-12th Streets or so is in Chinatown. There are a lot of such shops around there. lot of such AMPs around there. that serves great vietnamese sandwitches for like 2 bucks. Forget \_ there is a hole in the wall right next to the mall in OAK chinatown that serves great vietnamese hookers for like 2 bucks. Forget exactly where it is though. Right across the street from one side or the other with a green awning. \_ thanks, best damn 2 dollar food I've had in ages \_ 10th and Webster, about a half block down Webster. Right $25 in food [and am feeling kind of ill now] at a couple of bakeries and sandwich facilites. these include around the corner from where I work. --erikred \_ thanks, best damn 2 dollar sex I've had in ages \- what is the name of this place? i ended up buying like \_ what is a "vietnamese sandwich"? it doesn't bring a pleasant image$25 in sex [and am feeling kind of ill now] at a couple \- it is a sandwich made with of brothels and hookers facilites. these include Cam Hong on Franklin and Lao Houng [807 E. 12th] [sp? on both names ... might be \pm a vowel or so]. ok tnx. --psb \_ Any good place like this in Stanford/Palo Alto/MenloPark/Redwood City area? \_ what is a "vietnamese hookers"? it doesn't bring a pleasant image \_ what is a "vietnamese hooker"? it doesn't bring a pleasant image \- it is a hookers made with to mind. \- it is a hooker made with Mango, Oregano, Radishes, Olives, Nutella --psb \_ fresh french baguette roll, a meat (pate, vietnamese grilled pork, chicken, etc), radish, carrots, cilantro, seasoning and some leafy lettuce. and jalapeno slices. usually sell for $2-$3 depending on place. damn good. \_ "vietnamese hookers" is good. Two young hookers and you slip some meat between a pair of buns. Only $1.50 each at some places \_ I slip my meat between a pair of buns? Ooh, ahh. \_ oh, how clever! hookers instead of sandwiches!  2002/11/6 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26438 Activity:very high 11/5 What's the right pronunciation of Ngyuen? Gwen? New-Yen? \_ You can't make that sound without practice. Nyen is close. \_ You can't make that sound without practice. Nwin is close. \_ Ok, can a Vietnamese native speaker record a correct pronunciation (.wav or something) and post it in /csua/tmp? Curious people want to know... \_ I've always pronounced it closer to new-wen. \_ And your first language was what? \_ It is definitately only one syllable, no matter how you say it. I think you mean Nguyen, right? \_ bah, the first guy was right Nwin is how you say it \_ I once knew a girl with that name who insisted it was pronounced "nu-yin". \_ that's cuz you she didn't want you in her pants \_ I searched Yahoo and found both Nguyen and Ngyuen. Are they equivalent? Or are they both correct but different last names? \_ Yeah and what about Ng? Is that "ing"? If so why not spell it that way in the goddam first place? For that matter why would someone write a name "Hsiao", I mean it sure wasn't written that way in China so why not just write it phonetically? \_ The name is Nguyen. It is the most common Vietnamese last name, much more common than Smith is here, and was the name of a series of emperors, the Nguyen Dynasty. "Nguyen" is the Anglisized spelling. In Vietnamese, there's a circumflex (^) over the "e" and a tilde (~) over the circumflex. I've never heard of Ngyuen before. That doesn't mean it's not a name, but I'm sure the one you're thinking of is Nguyen. The reason that they don't spell it "ing" in the goddamn first place is that it's not pronounced that way. It's actually pronounced "ng", so a better question would be: why don't you pronounce it that way in the goddamn first place? Actually, it can't be pronounced using English, only approximated (the alphabet is based on French, btw). There are three reasons for this: 1. The "Ng" at the beginning. We actually have this sound in English, but it only appears at the end of words. For some reason it's really hard for us native English speakers to say it at the beginning of a word. It's pronounced like the _end_ of "ing". I taught myself to say it by saying "ring" and holding the "ng" part at the end, after the "i". 2. The tone. In Vietnamese (and many other Asian languages) the meaning of a word depends on the tone you use when saying it. This can't really be described in writing, so get a Vietnamese person to pronounce it for you. It took me a while to even be able to hear tones in Vietnamese; they all sounded the same to me. For Nguyen, it's kind of like starting your voice at a normal pitch at "Ng", making the pitch drop as you say the letters through "uy", and then making the pitch sharply rise as you say, "en". 3. The pacing. In English, this word would be pronounced with two syllables: Nguy-en or maybe Ngu-yen. However, in Vietnamese it's pronounced as one syllable. In my opinion, "gwin" (like Tony Gwynn) is the closest you can come in English, but even then it's not that close to the Vietnamese pronounciation. - mikeym \_ \Win\  2002/10/18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26250 Activity:nil 10/18 http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4310500.htm The problem isn't foreigners taking our jobs,'' it's American companies can get IT work done more cheaply overseas.'' \_ Why go overseas when you can pick up H1Bs here who are afraid of packing themselves and their families up and moving back to the home country? It's a little more pricey, but you have greater control over the product, the employee, and avoid middleman markup? \_ All work can be done more cheaply overseas. This includes medical care, manufacturing, and so on. Cost-of-living is cheaper there and so are wages. The problem is what happens when everyone has been outsourced. Who will keep the US economy afloat then? --dim \_ I'm curious about how you would outsource medical care. Fly people to Taiwan? -tom \_ Lots of people go to Mexico for medical care. The point being that doctors in Mexico make less than doctors here, even though it's a skilled and valuable profession. Everything costs less to do somewhere else. --dim \_ It's not hard for Kaiser-style medical care. You call Kaiser saying you are very sick and you want to make an appointment to see a doctor, and the guy on the phone keeps on asking you if you feel this and if you feel that, telling you it's no big deal and go get some over-the-counter medicine and drink lots lots of water, and bye. If you insist on making an appointment, he'll tell you there's a slot in three months. Then you're left dying and he gets a bonus for turning yet another patient away and saving the company money. For this kind of medical care, it's easy to outsource to any English- speaking country with a phone network.  2002/6/19 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:25152 Activity:nil 6/19 Is this true or bogus or biased: \_ biased. ---------- Ah, Gandhi, the one that sat on his ass for months while the Indian National Army men(those former Indian soldiers under the Japanese) were campaigning for the release of their leaders and rioting on the streets even getting killed. When Gandhi began to see an opportunity opening he began a peace march which seem laughable to the Brits because all they had to do was wait until they go away. But the riots and mutiny was another matter. "In 1956 Lord Attlee(former Prime Minister of Great Britain) was asked a question about Britain's hurried withdrawal from India in 1947. The British statesman who presided over the transfer of power to the leaders of India and Pakistan was halting in Calcutta for two days during his passage through India...Attlee was as good as his reputation for plain speaking. Without caring about the official British propaganda line, he mentioned a number of reasons for Britain's momentous decision, the most important among which, he emphasized, was that "the loyalty of the men of the Indian Army to their British commanders had been UNDERMINED by Subhas Chandra Bose's (Leader of Indian National Army) actions..." Incidentally, Governor P.B. Chakaravarti asked Lord Attlee his opinion on an allied subject as well. "Toward the end of the discussion", he wrote, "I wanted to know to what extent Mahatma Gandhi's non-violent movement had influenced the British decision to leave India. There was the flicker of a cautious smile on Attlee's lips as he uttered with slow deliberation the word 'MI-NI-MAL'..." Who had brought the country(India) so near its goal? General Sinha's answer is: "The above facts confirm that the INA(Indian National Army, which Japan helped to create) had a great psychological and political impact even though its military impact was not so significant. They also bring out that the Indian Army played a silent but significant role toward bringing about the independence of India. (Pandit's "The Last Days of Netaji") ----------  2002/6/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:25032 Activity:high 6/7 I don't get this India/Paki thing. What's so special about Kashmir? Are they fighting for oil? minerals? Surely they're not fighting for stupid fir are they? \_ one of the legacy Britsh Empire left behind. This, along with Isreal/Palastine, Kuwait/Iraq, Hong Kong/China mainland, as part of White Man's burden to Civilize world. American is trying to out-do Britian by muddling with North/South Korea, North/South Vietnam, and China mainland and Taiwan island. \_ isreal/palastine? legacy of the british empire? you're an idiot. read the fucking bible. \_ uhm what about it? Where's the part in there about suicide bombers? I recall God saying suicide was a sin. \_ White Man's Burden? All "White Men" are not responsible for what the British aristocracy did over the last several centuries. \_ they're fighting for religious reasons mostly but im no expert. or maybe you could say it's political with religious underpinnings. \_ They're fighting over sweaters. \_ Is this Kashmir really the same "kashmir" as the variant of "cashmere"? Or is it coincidence? \_ It's where the animals with the wool used for cashmere sweaters are from. http://www.cashmere.com/html/101/101.html \_ www.kashmir.com/Causeofconflict.html \_ Yep. Clearly stated with no bias at all. Sure-thing. \_ "I saw it on the net! It must be true! It's like Peter Jennings! Yeah!" \_ They're both huge Zeppelin fans. \_ DUDE! \_ Kashmir is a very rich and beautiful piece of land. \_ i guess if you like living at 5,000 feet on a bunch of rocks. \_ Not down in the valley. It's beautiful. http://www.koausa.org/VParimoo http://www.ikashmir.org/Nature \_ No one is going to nuke anyone over a "beautiful valley". \_ http://www.kashmirtimes.com/latest.htm \_ Nice to find such a clearly un-biased source of information. Does anybody have a source OTHER than kashmir.com and http://kashmirtimes.com? Perhaps a BBC fact file or something from the Economist? \_ Yeah, because the BBC is so unbiased \_ I did say "perhaps". Can I get you to volunteer a source my sardonic and as yet not very helpful friend? \_ I get all my facts from the BBC. My mind is now clear of all bias. Truth is a beautiful thing. I now have A Beautiful Mind. \_ how come nobody mentions the section of Kashmir that is controlled by the Chinese? \_ It is in the Himalayas and is worthless and has no inhabitants. \_ And it's controlled by the Chinese who neither India nor Pakistan is capable of going to war against because they'd just get crushed and make an excuse for the Chinese to move south.  2002/5/22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:24910 Activity:insanely high 5/21 I said a while ago this Pakistan/India thing was going nuclear... here's some more "fuel for the fire" as they say. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-303716,00.html \_ "The Pakistanis, who are considered better troops, would beat off the initial offensive" The Paks have one of the worst military corps in the world. They have lost every major encounter to India despite more modern weapons and training. And who do these diplomats think they are anyway? They should just butt out and let India solve the problem. \_ I believe the proper derogatory is "Paki." \_ The problem? You mean the problem with the crazy psycho indians butchering muslims en masse over some stupid temple site that never belonged to the indians in the first place? That problem? Or the one where the indian government is interferring on a daily basis with the lives of muslims in kashmir who are 99% peasants who would be perfectly happy to just be left alone on their rock strewn farms? That problem? The indians are going to get nuked. They've earned it. \_ Yeah. Indians have earned it alright. Let's not forget that in '48-49 the Paks butchered hindus and sikhs and sent back their body parts in train cars. Let's not forget the Pak attrocities of the '71 war or of the the Kargil war. (Muslims attrocities towards hindus go back further than this, but we'll leave that out) The current kashmir problem was started by Pak funded plo/hamas style "operations". India has every right to defend itself against Pak aggression. The temple site that you mention is fairly important to many hindus. How long do you think it would take muslims to tear down a church or synagouge in mecca? \_ So you think it's ok that people not even born in 48 or 71 get butchered today because of what happened then? And then you try to equate muslims trying to live in peace in a muslim area with hamas? you're nuts. The temple site is no mecca. They're a bunch of whackos. \_ Sadly, it also means the Pakistanis are going to get nuked. The world will finally see what happens when two nuclear powers decide to annihilate each other. It's going to be a fucking nightmare. -mice \_ Not if India strikes first and destroy all of Pakistans 25 warheads. \_ This is laughable. They stand zero chance of taking out 3 dozen nukes with their 5 dozen nukes. Neither of them has enough firepower to do any such thing. We're not talking the US/Soviets during the cold war with 25,000+ warheads each. These clowns have *maybe* 150 between them which is only just enough to seriously fuck each other up real real bad. \_ Only if you're Pakistani or Indian and depending on the winds and fallout levels a neighboring nation. The rest of us get the benefits of lots of emergency/experimental medical procedures practiced on other people and it'll be a big boon for the construction and cleanup companies here and in Europe & Japan. Too bad about the tea though. \_ There's no danger of a nuclear winter? And who is going to pay the cleanup companies? \_ 1: no. they dont have enough nukes between them to make a nuclear summer. 2: your tax dollars, duh. \_ 2: Exactly my point. We won't benefit from it because even though they use our cleanup companies, they use our money to pay for it. \_ Ah, so human life has no value... \_ Dude, you've bee soooo bated. Ouch. \_ Heh I thought the "too bad about the tea" was a big give away. I'll try harder to make it more obvious next time. :-) \_ It does. It's something like$96 in chemicals and water. Hardly anything worth getting upset about.
 2002/4/26-28 [Science/Space, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:24610 Activity:nil 4/26 http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020425.html Cringely's baby son dead. SIDS. \-well at least bill gates seems to allocate is humanitarian dollars intelligetly. i dont see why there isnt a "mkt solution" to this when he says "nobody will benefit from this, pls donate to my cause". something like the lbl cheap UV-based water filter. see e.g. http://www.lbl.gov/wonder/gadgil-2.html is a much better cause. --psb \_ Bill Gates = PR and a job for his dad.
 2002/2/22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23948 Activity:high 2/21 "BUSH'S VIETNAM" http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&u=/020221/7/14zdw.html \_ Ted Rall should stick to drawing mediocre comic strips. Or see somebody about getting his medication changed.
 2001/12/31 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23416 Activity:very high 12/30 Indians only days away from full mobility. Pakistan mobile now and might launch first strike. Both sides moving missiles near front. Stop deleting this. Nuclear war is just as important as an arcade in the South bay: a post you didn't delete. \_ personally, i never delete posts, but i can see their point. there are thousands of news sources out there a click away with every different viewpoint, language, and depth of detail, and hundreds of places this can be debated online. political threads like this on the motd usually end up as heated debates of very long posts between just two people, which are not fun to read. since most of us read the motd for fun, that means your post sucks. \_ A nuclear conflict there might not be so bad. Their limited capability means the damage will be constrained within Asia. A war can semi-permanently set back both countries and possibly China, which might not be a bad thing. India, although currently it pretends to be pro-US, eventually will become a bigger threat with a more functional government and military and less fondness for western ideas. \_ Not so bad? You are such a humanitarian... \_ Yawn. This has been going on in Korea for 50 years. \_ Hey, thanks for the news! Now that the motd's turned into World News Now, I don't have to go to the effort of firing up my Web browser. Now, *does* anyone have the address of a good arcade in the South Bay? If we're all going to be annihilated in a nuclear firestorm, I wanna go out having the most fun that a CS major can have!
 2001/12/31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23409 Activity:nil 12/30 India & Pakistan edge ever closer to war. URLs everywhere, go to your favorite news service.
 2001/12/22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23351 Activity:nil 12/2 India and Pakistan on edge of war. This is looking more serious than previous sable rattling. I guess sending suicide commandos to wipe out the other side's parliament can get them a bit ticked off. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001570014-2001583290,00.html
 2001/11/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23051 Activity:moderate 11/14 The Jews did it with inside help from the CIA, coordination from Elvis on the mothership hidden behind the moon and Bigfoot was there on the ground in his invisibility suit painting the targets with lasers. http://www.paknews.com/main.php?id=7&date1=2001-11-04 \_ but what about the reverse-vampires? \_ Who told you about the reverse-vampires? Now you'll have to die. \_ did anyone here besides me read Thrasher magazine in the early 90's? there were alot of funny letters from vampire skaters. ah the good old days.
 2001/9/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:22496 Activity:very high 9/17 Can anyone give a brief (<1 page) description (biased or not) or url of why Russia wanted control over Afghanistan for so long? \_ They wanted to then take Pakistan, warm water port in the Indian Ocean. \_ With the US sphere of influence decreased because of the Iranian revolution they jumped at the chance of increasing their sphere of influence in the Region. \_ Because 1) Brezhnev was an idiot. 2) Not Russia particularly but USSR was willing to offer economic and military help to all anti-US, populist, socialist, or communist governments around the world (e.g. Cuba, Nicaragua, Vietnam, etc). With Afganistan Brezhnev went too far and ordered military invasion. Russians quickly found their Vietnam in Afganistan and were forced to pull out of this country in the late 80s mostly because of protests at home. \- largest deposit of Scandium inthe world. --psb \_ "protest at home" in a communist country? And the govt actually let them live? And listened to them? \_ Little old ladies carrying pictures of their sons as I recall. \_ Well, that was in the late 1980s during the glastnost and perestroika at which point freedom of speech was being encouraged by Gorbachev's government. \_ By the way, does anyone remember the title of the movie about a Russian tank crew that got lost in Afganistan? \_ Probably "The Beast" (1998) with Jason Patric of The Lost Boys fame --ulysses \_ Rambo III ?
 2001/9/12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:36282 Activity:nil 9/12 Something to think about: http://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb-050es.html Not that this changes the fact that we should nuke everything from palestine to pakistan and be done with the muslim menace \_ That's right, if i remember my Bible correctly, didn't Christ himself give the thumbs up to eye-for-an-eye argument? \_ You're not remembering it correctly. Try reading it again. He advocated "turning the other cheek." \_ irony Killing all brown people in the world is the best and only solution. And don't forget to nuke Indonesia and Turkey while solution. And don't forget to nuke Malaysia and Turkey while you're at it. \_ Idiots like gandhi who believed that "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" are the reason we are in this situation. The fruits of years of diplomacy and concilliation and consideration were reaped yesterday. Now is the time for action not moderation and compassion. \_ HAHAHAHHHHH!!! When have we EVER had a single DAY of concilliation or consideration in our foreign policy? Read up on Chile, El Salvador, Iraq, et al. It's sentiment like this that keeps Kissinger out of the Hague. \_ Our policy of toleration of egypt, syria, jordan, iraq, iran, the sudan, wimpiness in korean and vietnam, detente are all the result of "diplomats". If we had trusted our military leaders, we would not be in this situation now. \_ You're right. We'd be neck deep in blood and no better off.
 2001/9/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:22404 Activity:high 9/12 Bush to declare a Jihad against Mohammedian terrorism! \_ Motd poll: Should we "nuke and pave" everything between jerusalem and kashmir (ie the 90% of the muslim world) in order to solve this problem forever? \_ that wouldn't have stopped oklahoma city or the Tokyo sarin gas attack. \_ By this problem, I mean the muslim terrorist jihad problem. I think that we can deal with the other problems as law enforcement issues. This is bigger than law enforcement. The muslim race is threat to peace, freedom and civilization and must be eliminated from the face of the earth. problem. peace, freedom and civilization and must be destroyed. problems as law enforcement issues, but this problem is bigger than law enforcement. The muslim race is threat to peace, freedom, prosperity and civilization and must be eliminated from the face of the earth. \_ You need to nuke Indonesia, Malaysia, Borneo and parts of Singapore and Philippines too. \_ We need to nuke Indonesia, Malaysia, Borneo and parts of Singapore and Philippines too. Oh, and don't forget India. don't forget India and its 100 million mullahs! \_ India? \_ India? You mean Pakistan? \_ And the Hsinjiang (sp?) province in China too. YES: . NO: .. \_ Wow, chamberlain lives! \_ Don't be an idiot.
 2001/8/8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:22049 Activity:insanely high 8/8 "Till caste do us apart...": http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/08/india.teenagers/index.html \- article which focus on these kinds of anomalous behavior really distort external perception of a community. If the only news someone got of life in the american south were stories of lynchings, cross burnings, and black men dragged along the street by good old boys in pickup trucks, you would certainly get a wildly innaccurate view of what life was like in the south. --psb \_ how come you aren't "ok tnx"ing people anymore? \_ Actions, not birth, dictates ones caste. Those who fail to see this are doomed to commit acts such as the ones mentioned in this article. Neither the killed nor the killers acted in a manner consistent with being a Brahmin. \_ Birth dictates caste in all the sources I've seen. It's institutionalized, religious racism. Trying to deny that is rewriting history. rewriting history. Your attempts at rationalizing it don't get around the central issue. How does one enter the higher caste? Only through the acceptance of that caste? Unlikely. Maybe they would and maybe they wouldn't, but clearly the theory goes that depending on your actions you are reborn into the different caste. There is no possible way you can spin that to my satisfaction. Blacks may be reborn as whites as long as they act like whites enough, and if they're really white, maybe they'll be accepted by the whites as an honorary white. Until then, the blacks should accept their sacred roles as ho's, crack dealers, and rappers. With enough religious trappings, it probably works better than apartheid. After all, religion is the most proven form of mind control. \_ What is the "Jat" caste? \_ Probably an untouchable. \- have you ever though of not flapping your \- you are jumping to conclusions. "jat" probably in this context means caste, but it can also be a generic term for class or kind. it can also be a root for "best", mean a birth. it is the root of a lot of difficult to translate words and expressions. --psb \_ Actions in previous life dictate birth in next. \_ It is obvious you know very little about indian religion or scripture. The characteristics of caste are clearly described in the Gita and Krshna states that those who adhere to the rules of a given caste verily become members of that caste. There are several examples in the stories of the Upanishads, the lives of the Alvars and the Ramayana. Consider the case of Viswamithra, although we has born a warrior, he ultimately transcended that nature to become a Brahmarishi (the highest type of Brahmin). Also you may wish to consider the life and teachings of Sri Ramanuja whose greatest teacher was a man from the "lowest" caste, illustrating that caste is meaningless for true devotees of the lord. Ramanuja readily converted people from all castes and made them Brahmins with the only requirement being that they live as Brahmins live. BTW, Ramanuja lived over a thousand years ago so you can't tell me that this is a new development. \_ Is that why there are so many fake "brahmin" arseholes around? - a Brahmarishi. \_ On average achieving this title takes several hundred thousand years of meditiation. Not even psb is that old. \_ You are wrong. For some, enlightenment comes in a flash. \_ I don't know what you mean by fake brahmins. The vast majority of brahmins you meet are not related to Ramanuja's followers (Iyengars, of which there are less than a million world wide). In fact most traditional brahmins don't like Iyengars because they have revolutionary ideas like non discrimination based on caste or creed. \_ So all these born "brahmins" are not necessarily true brahmins? Otherwise, how do you explain the number of arseholes among them?
 2001/7/20 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:21884 Activity:very high 7/19 Yet more people with too much time on there hands: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010719/wl/india_bush_s_cat_1.html \_ Is India even called "India" in India? --PeterM \_ Sure, they all speak English anyway (there's no one "Indian" language.) The word comes from the Indus River, or Sindhu, also the word Hindu, and Hindustan. But it's irrelevant; they seem to think it's insulting on the principle, like if you named a pet dogshit France, even though the French don't call themselves France. \_ Bharath is the real name for "India". Hindu is also not a indian word, it is a arabic term invented by muslim invaders. \_ Are they suggesting that our pres should get a lion instead? \_ ^t a^t eaten by a
 2001/7/9 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:21740 Activity:nil 7/8 Speaking of M$, Any thoughts on why MSFT can't seem to get their instant messanger service running? I would think that with a co like MSFT the backup redundency would basically mean they can crash the entire system and it would still work within a day when they activate the mirror service sitting in line india or something-- but they have just been dead for a week now...  2001/6/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:21559 Activity:nil 6/18 [References to Vietnam censored]  2001/1/29-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:20463 Activity:high 1/29 How come whenever a big earthquake happens in a country, it always takes several days before other countries start to send rescue teams to help out? (Turkey, Taiwan, India, ...) Don't they realize most of the trapped would be dead by then? \_ Because they don't have rescue teams sitting around doing nothing but waiting to leave the instant a quake hits. Because it takes 12-24 hours to fly to the other side of the world. Because going \_ Uh. Nations cannot be affluent. Citizens can be affluent. \_ Uh. Both can. \_ Uh, no bitch. \_ Win a lot of arguments? \_ The wester dictionary uses it in the example: in before the local government asks for help is an act of war. Because you just don't have the brain cells to comprehend. \_ But somehow those rescue teams have time to talk to the press and post for pictures. and pose for pictures. \_ Strangely, the United States and Japan (two of the more affluent nations in the world) sent a whopping$1 million to help out in the disaster. \_ ah yes, and Bill Gates who is worth over 60 billion dollars donates a WHOPPING 1 million dollar to the AIDs research, paid over a period of 3 years. What a philanthropist he is. \- maybe he thinks there are bigger priorities than AIDS research ... which is after all quite heavily funded by the US govt. --psb \_ Bill donates quite a bit more to other causes and has said he is leaving most of his fortune to charity when he dies, not his kids. \_ Bill Gates owes you nothing. \_ I thought it was 100 million and I agree he owes you nothing. \_ he owes me the $300 he grifted on the POS products he sold me in the last 2 decades (plus tax and compounding interest in the Nasdaq). In total, he owes me several thousand dollars. \_ I wasn't aware that the Nasdaq paid compounding interest. Maybe you would have bought high and sold low.... \_ No, those are RELIEF planes not a military invasion! Really! \_ "We'd like you to help, but the runways are sorta broken to pieces right now.... Please don't try to land, our hospital space is overcommitted already." \_ "...so maybe you could just sorta' crash your planes in some open space somewhere near the epicenter, and we can, you know, salvage what we need from the wreckage..."  2001/1/17-19 [Finance/Investment, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:20355 Activity:moderate 1/17 Next dot com demise-- WebVan. News at 11. \_ tell us more... or tell http://fuckedcompany.com \_ WebVan still has over$100 million in the bank, it's not near doom yet. There are questions about its viability in the mid-term. -tom \_ Put your money down. Sell short. \_ peon investors can't short stocks trading below $5. -tom \_ peeon investors can't short stocks trading below$5. -tom \_ well, not entirely true. between $1 and$5, you just have lowered margin requirements. below $1, your statement is true. (so it's still true for WBVN)  2000/12/22-27 [Consumer/GPS, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:20160 Activity:low 12/22 I am going on a trip to India soon. Any recommendation for an inexpensive but decent GPS? I will also use it for future trekking and hiking trip, both foreign and domestic. \- see http://joe.mehaffey.com and the sat-nav news group. you can probably get a faily basic one for$100-150. you canb also search the walllogs. these days i think you are basically paying for storage capacity and some users features ... not so much accuracy or sensitivity. --psb \_ Garmin G12 was $150 2 years ago, will do anything you need. Newer Etrex model is half the size, same sort of pricing. \_ Magellan 310 on sale at Fry's for$89.95. Also, if you have one of the higher level Palms, you can get a GPS attachment for $130 or so. \- one additional comment: i think GPSes are still pretty primitive in terms of user interface and are still geek toys. are you sure disposable income not to worry about a$100 here or there].--psb you want one? most geeks into geek toys tend to want the ones with all the features and not the low end ones [and have the disposable income not to worry about a $100 here or there]. they also suck a lot of batteries, often dont work that well under tree cover without an ext antenna, so if you dont make a serious commitment to them, might not be worth taking at all. as with almost all consumer electronics, tomorrow it will be better and cheaper. --psb, former Garmin III+ owner recently return from india  2000/10/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Recreation/Media] UID:19563 Activity:high 10/25 What exactly is "B-Movie"? Thx. \_ 2 interpretations: Budget Movie (low budget) or a movie they show for free when you see the A movie. \_ Sorry, what's "A movie" then? \_ the movie you paid for (like when cartoons were free because you paid for the main movie.) \_ a movie is a motion picture. duh. \_ The general usage (in the States) is "Shitty, low budget film". A corrolary to that is the increasingly popular "DTV--Direct To Video". --sowings \_ A very, very nice "new wave" band...sorta dark-sounding. Also, see the films of John Waters or Roger Corman, and maybe the live-action version of The Guyver. \_ McGuyver? \_ in some asian countries, A means Adult (porn) \_ I thought that was H as in Hentai, not A as in Adult. B doesn't have any significance (AFAIK), but R usually means Romance. \_ you mean it DOESNT mean "boobs"? \_ you would think this if you interpreted "some asian countries" as only refering to japan \_ Okay, I am a ignorant American, what countries does this refer to? \_ Japan, Indonesia and Pakistan only. \_ India isn't a Asian country but Pakistan is? Confirms what I knew all along, Indians are really WHITE not ASIAN. \_ Indians aren't white, they are Aryan / indo-European (I think). In general, they are quite dark.  2000/8/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:18994 Activity:high 8/15 Another india-related question. So why are some indians veggie-eaters while others are meat-eaters? Is it because of caste? The higher up you go the more meat you consume? \_ Don't be stupid. It's a free country, too. \_ Uh. Wrong. \_ But meat there is not free. \_ Being stupid shouldn't be free either, please send me$10 \_ The higher up you go the less meat you consume. Brahmin's consume no meat. \_ Eat more cows, save the atmosphere. -John
 2000/8/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:18989 Activity:very high 8/14 Is it ok to ask an indian guy/gal what his/her caste is? Or is that considered a taboo topic? I'm just curious about what this person's pecking order is back in india. \- i think it is pretty tacky. might be ok if you know the person pretty well and are talking about "growing up in india" or something like that, but other i dont think you should. you can however often tell from the last name. --psb \_ Esp. south indian last names and some north indian names. \_ Brahmin. Trust me. \_ Yeah Brahmin's are at the top. They are the best! - Brahmin. \_ brahmin, kshtryia, vishia, shudra, where brahmin's are on top. Some basic rules are: 1. Upgrades are available only for women via marriage. A lower caste woman marrying an upper caste man gets upgraded to the man's caste. (This is a progressive rule that is not yet accepted by orthodox hindus) 2. Upgrades are not available for men. A lower caste man marrying an upper caste woman, downgrades the woman's caste. 3. Downgrades are always possible based on behavior (ie being born into a caste does not qualify you for permanent membership in that caste). If your behavior deviates from the norm for your caste you will be downgraded, usually to untouchable which is lower than the lowest. (This is a generally accepted rule by all but the most bigoted and orthodox brahmins) \_ Are you a brahmin? \_ yes. -tjb \_ [lengthy un-asked-for crap deleted] I believe that psb is right, most of the people in India are not brahmins and are pretty sensitive about this fact. Many of the people you'll meet in this country are brahmins (at least by birth) so they won't be as sensitive. In the past only brahmins had the qualifications to immigrate to this country in large numbers, but in recent years that's changed. \_ You are an idiot. Most intelligent people from India that I had met don't care about their former caste. Currently in India itself it is very advantageous to be one of the lower castes because there is affirmative action for them. It is currently next to impossible to enroll in a good university as a Brahmin or a Shatria. \- this is misleading. --psb \_ I am getting this straight from my indian friends. Where do you get your information, psb? \- this last comment really isnt true. immigrants from differnt parts of india and at differnt periods of time have had very differnt characteristics. e.g. since the 60s most of the bengalis [men] are civil/mech/electrical engineers. there was also a large influx of indian doctors starting in teh 70s. this is not at all true of the people from say the punjab are who came over in the earlier part of the century ... i believe many of them worked in the agri- cultural sector. --psb \_ Are you a brahmin? \_ i think he's from a uniquely american caste known as "admin". \_ Generally those of a lower uid are of higher caste. \_ that's because of their closeness to God^H^H^Hroot^H^H^H^Hnirvana
 2000/3/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:17892 Activity:very high 3/30 I don't necessarily have a problem with affirmative action, but I think it's strange that some companies have affirmative action programs AND claim not to discriminate based on race. Affirmative action specifically discrimates in favor of certain races for an allegedly good cause, but it still discriminates. It seems like these companies should either say the have affirmative action progromas or say they don't discriminate based on race but not both. What do other people think? I am missing something or do most corporations and universities have contradictory policies? \_ If a particular race maintains a percentage of the population in general and a company tries to maintain that same representation in its work force, is that discrimination, or just attempting to keep the playing field equal? \_ If society maintains an unfair playing field by not providing funding towards lower income communities so we get a perminant lower class since they have no opportunity for education and thus no chance at a decently paying job, where would you try and create equal footing for all? Give more money to schools and social programs, have hiring preferences for unqualified individuals or build prisions? \_ Such companies can be sued (likely successfully) for discrimination. \_ Welcome to New Thought as created and promoted by the whacky left. It doesn't have to make sense, just make rich white people feel better about themselves at the expense of others. It also keeps the blacks from rioting too often. \_ do you believe in AA based on income? or childhood living conditions? \_ I thought AA was a great thing. It helped me get over my alcholism. There should be an anonymous club for every other controlled substance. \_ Only merit should differentiate people. \_ how come white people with less merit before AA got the jobs? \_ though I commiserate with the sentiment, I think this point is, at best, specious without some kind of justification. \_ I don't see any 'sentiment' here, just a racist remark. \_ If you see a racist remark, then you see a sentiment. Learn the language before you try to split hairs. \_ I'm just saying that it's hard to call it an egalitarian society if the system is in any way biased against a significant portion of the population. \_ Of course it is. I am more biased against blacks than whites because blacks robbed me and beat me up a lot more often than whites. I am merely learning from data. Would you rather I _wasn't_ biased against them? And don't give me this 'they are products of an unfavorable environment' shit. People have free \_ Your views on war are somewhat naive. The idea in war is to destroy your opponents will and ability to fight by any means necessary. If a high body count lands you this goal, great. Realistically, though, a high body count is very unlikely to be sufficient. Look at Vietnam: the US killed something like 10 times as many people as it sustained in casualties. But the NVA were still willing to fight, long after American determination petered out due to POLITICAL and SOCIAL pressures. \_ [vietnam crap deleted] oops. sorry. will. They are not products of their environment. Some just choose to be nasty. \_ Yer walking home in the middle of the night and you see a group of (1) young black men in dark puffy jackets \_ actually, you shouldn't feel ashamed about this stereotype. I was in a hurry to see my friend one saturday evening and pay him back the money i owed him (\$40). I passed a bunch of young black men in dark puffy jackets, although my first instinct was to hang back and let them walk ahead. Anyhow, I pass them, I hear a bunch respect. I made up my mind about such people on a case by case basis. But if forced to generalized about of snickers behind me, didn't pay attention to it. Anyhow...I get to the darkness of the bridge at Moffitt Library, and suddenly hear rapid footsteps behind me and I realize I am totally fucked. Before I have a chance to turn around these same fuckers that I passed, one of them puts an armlock around my neck and demands my money. and you know the rest... what makes me angry is that they laughed when they left, and i had to deal with a sore neck from getting choked really hard and the shitty task of canceling all my credit cards. and of course the feeling of being violated.. i was already in a pissed off mood. and this happened at 10:30 p.m., northside... be especially careful during summer folks, and pay attention to those stereotypes, they're not entirely a bad thing.... (2) young, bald white men in torn leather jackets and spiky hair \_ How can you be bald and have spiky hair at the same time? Sounds like a good depiction of Cafe Berlin. (3) computer geeks I think it's safe to say that most white people fear 1 > 2, and most black people fear 2 > 1. I think the poster above is white. \_ That's an extremely ego-centric and short sighted view point that sounds much too focused on self-pity to be real. Are you trolling? \_ I am not trolling. I care about myself more than about people who beat me up. I am sorry if this is perceived as ego-centric. -- original poster \_ *sigh* Ever heard of objectivity? It's kind of useful when devising laws that apply to _everyone_ and not just your victimized little self. \_ I thought it was blacks who were bitching about being 'victimized.' I am not bitching I am just telling you why _I_ personally discriminate against blacks. \_ Two wrongs don't make a right? *shrug* I still think I'm being trolled, but whatever. You might want to learn how to format your motd posts correctly, though. \_ It really isn't a troll. I have worked with intelligent, successful black people, whom I admire and respect. I have made up my mind about such people on a case by case basis. But if forced to generalize about blacks as a whole, my view will be negative, based on my past experiences with blacks as a whole. \_ You have experience with blacks as a whole? Wow. How much time did it take to meet all of them. Or did you mean that you had experience with a statistically significant random subset of blacks? \_ I generalize data that I have. If there is more data, I will change my opinion, if the data tells me to. If you don't like my opinion argue with my data. \_ Actually, it sounds more real than troll to me. It has a thread of logic. \_ Were they right-handed or left-handed? Surely you're more biased against righties or lefties as a result, right? \_ The aforementioned acts were committed by blacks far more often than is warranted by the relative percentage of blacks in the general population. \_ actually, it's historically backed. \_ What is historically backed? This 'sentiment' is not even semantically valid. Less merit than who? \_ Less merit than who? \_ what about white only bathrooms? \_ What about green-only trolls? \_ It's not right to kill people, but in war the idea is to kill as many people as possible. What do other people thing? Am I missing something or does society have contradictory mores? (Markup was necessary to reduce further confusion.) \_ [vietnam crap deleted] Oops. Missed the sarcasm. Sorry. \_ Short answer: It's not federally-defined "discrimination" if it's affirmative action. The word when used in HR policy has the federal meaning. \_ i.e. "Welcome to New Thought as created and promoted by the whacky left. It doesn't have to make sense, just make rich white people feel better about themselves at the expense of others. It also keeps the blacks from rioting too often." \_ Notice that short answer was more fact than opinion based. \_ Notice that the short answer obsequiously (or perhaps conspiratorially) accepts that the government can redefine english words in whatever way happens to fit thier political agenda or best obscures (contradicts) reality despite all/any reason. \_ ^redefine^add a legal definition to Please reflect on the relative benefit of AA in the 1960s and whether AA is a successful policy today, in 50 words or less. \_ The benefit (or lack) of AA is irrelevant to *my* criticism of the perversion of the language. What is so damn hard about actually saying/writing what is meant? That society has a "legal definition" of a word that is actually contradictory to the original definition is an obvious sign of intellectual/legal dishonosty and/or sloth. \_ I agree. This is the point I was addressing when I started the thread. Whether or not AA is good is independant of the fact that Equal Opportunity statements are contradictory to AA. Does anyone have a response to this abuse of language issue? I'm not trolling. It's just that the AA policy and the Equal Opprutnity statements which every organization makes seem blatantly contradictory. When something that seems so obviously wrong is accepted without question it makes me wonder if I'm missing an important point. Therefore, I would like to see a response or URL making the case for the other side of the issue. Thanks. \_ Please reflect on why it's okay for black people to make jokes about black people and white people, but not okay for white people to joke about black people, in 50 words or less.
 1998/5/29-30 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:14153 Activity:moderate 5/29 Stupid move by India. Supposedly they're a year away from fitting a nuclear warhead to a missile. Someone's gonna get nuked. -mlee \_ Didn't Pakistan just announce yesterday they already have a nuke missile ready and aimed at India? \_ Meanwhile 500 people die in India from the heat. \_ and a couple hundred million others don't have enough to eat \_ Why do you think they feel such a need to expand? --dim \_ they don't go hungry for lack of land, the causes are political \_ I can't think of a quicker way to get rid of excess population than a little nuclear war. I say let them have at it! We shoulda saved them the trouble and just sold them the nukes. \_ only 500? In a country of 1+ billion, who noticed?
 1998/3/24 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Computer/Rants] UID:13856 Activity:insanely high 3/24 I know some Indian friends who are BIG AND BUFF like football players, and some even have blue/hazzle eyes. I sware they almost look white!!! \_ swear Why are a lot of Indians like that? (this is a serious question!) \_ Mutations as a result of the massive radiation and pollution released by British experiments on the fusion reactor from an alien starship that crash-landed in the Ganges River valley during the winter of 1945. \_ That's right. In fact, the reason that they decided to make India independent wasn't Gandhi . . . During the course of their experiments, they created a hole in the space-time continuum that threatened to SWALLOW THE ENTIRE BRITISH EMPIRE WHOLE! The only way to avoid this was to make sure that India was no longer a part of the British Empire. That way, if the hole expanded beyond their control, India would be lost, but the Empire would be safe. Hail Brittania! \_ is it just me or does the motd get dumber every day? -aspo \_Would you like to see Brittania rule again, my friend? All you have to do is follow the worms. \_ Brittania rules the waves!`
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