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| 11/22 |
| 2010/3/24-4/14 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53759 Activity:nil |
3/24 Global warming solves political dispute:
http://www.csua.org/u/qcz
Can't argue which country owns the island when it no longer exists.
\_ Global warming is also responsible for human civilization. It's the
gift that keeps on giving. Don't worry though, I'm sure some
geo engineering will solve the pesky problem of western civ. |
| 2010/1/19-29 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53639 Activity:nil |
1/19 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100118/ap_on_re_us/us_us_haiti_gates "(US ambassador to haiti) Merten ... described downtown Port-au- Prince, the capital city, as resembling "Tokyo at the end of the Second World War." What kind of stupid remark is that!? He could have said London or Paris or any other city on the Allies side. "Hey Haitians, your place looks like that other city that we once bombed the hell out of." \_ are you an idiot? London and Paris didn't have the crap bombed out of them at the end of the second world war. -tom \_ "The Blitz and other bombing by the German Luftwaffe during World War II killed over 30,000 Londoners and destroyed large tracts of housing and other buildings across London" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London#Late_modern_and_contemporary \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo "...the most destructive bombing raid in history." Paris was not damaged at all during WWII. \_ OK, thanks for answering my question. ("yes.") -tom |
| 2009/8/17-9/1 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53275 Activity:nil |
8/17 After Civil War reenactment, there is now Vietnam Way reenactment!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_us/us_re_enacting_vietnam
\_ Unbelievable! Where are they going to get all the "gooks"?
Also I'm really surprised that of all the war reenactments,
there hasn't been a nut case with loaded munition shooting
at people.... or has there? |
| 2009/7/23-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53187 Activity:nil |
7/23 Click fraud rampant. Good for AdSense owners though!
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/23/sure-the-us-has-a-lot-of-click-fraud-but-at-least-were-not-vietnam |
| 11/22 |
| 2009/5/26-6/2 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:53046 Activity:low |
5/26 "Photo of US soldier in pink boxers turns iconic"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090522/ap_on_re_us/us_media_pink_boxers
Not a single mention about wearing a red shirt in a battlefield screams
"Shoot me!" and endangers one's comrades. He should have covered it up
or taken it off at the first opportunity.
\_ And how much war experiance do you have? Hint, playing Red Alert
doesn't count.
\_ Nor does watching "Star Trek".
\_ Dood, medics have to wear red crosses on their arms.
\_ Supposedly enemies shouldn't shoot the medics, so the red crosses
scream "DON'T shoot me!"
\_ Let me tell you, if I ever actually made it into combat,
the first thing I would have done is strip off that stupid
arm band. -former medic
\_ I heard that non-maimed army men get laid a lot because they
have many manly stories to tell and ladies love their strong
manly presence. Is this true? Is it?
\_ I don't know, but I got laid a lot in the co-ops. I don't
think it had anything to do with being ex-army, but
perhaps all that PT helped give me muscles.
\_ No, it's just that most women in the co-ops were
easy. I'd be afraid to sleep with most of them.
\_ Bill Cosby has a great routine on being a Corpsman in
Korea. First lesson: the North Koreans do not
Vietnam. First lesson: the North Vietnamese do not
recognize the Geneva Convention and so will actively
target Corpsmen. Cue a bunch of Corpsmen furiously
scrubbing the red cross off their helmets with Brillo
pads. |
| 2008/12/7-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:52190 Activity:nil |
12/6 worst prank call ever
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5302549.ece
\_ /facepalm. These guys are really on edge.
\_ worst in that it didn't actually get them to finish the deal
bout time we got some results for all the money with give them |
| 2008/12/5-10 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:52182 Activity:nil |
12/5 asians are bad bad bad
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/04/BA8D14II0B.DTL
\_ Don't give your Myspace info to shady Vietnamese dudes
\_ Gee is a Cantonese last name. Are you racist or something?
\_ all look same
http://tinyurl.com/6bd32k
\_ You know, if only she had a CCW permit and a gun... -chico dude |
| 2008/11/27-12/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:52120 Activity:nil |
11/27 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601091&sid=a96.kD6rKZM0&refer=india http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,458270,00.html 101 dead in India. Word of advice: don't tell gunmen that you're an American/Britain. Say that you're a Canadian, and that you never supported Bush's war. Seriously, you didn't actually support his war right? It's aboot time that I practice my Canadian accent. \_ http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/oct/31bpo1.htm \- "They have grenades, they have AK47s...they have 100kg of chicken." \_ And some of them are ambiguously gay!!! \_ http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/king.chopra.mumbai \_ "C[anadians] die a thousand deaths. The valiant taste of death but once." -jcaesar |
| 2008/9/23-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:51270 Activity:moderate |
9/22 "Pakistanis say suspected US drone shot down"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_drone
One fewer friend, one more foe.
\_ Isn't this what Obama said he'd do?
\_ No, but why let facts get in the way.
\_ Obama or Osama? Are we really supposed to belive that Obama said
that he was going to start shooting at US aircraft?
\_ i think pp was referring to Obama saying he would go into
Pakistan without its permission to get Osama
\_ If you want to be depressed, this article in the NYTimes claims
that Pakistan endlessly trolls us into giving them billions while
they fund the Taliban. Let me repeat. We give Pakistan money.
They funnel a large portion to the Taliban in return for the
Taliban leaving Pakistan alone. But lately the crazy portion
\- and a large portion is funneled to the Army's "parallel
economy" ... while not quite an african kleptocracy or
saudi level concentration at the top, it's not a normal state.
it's also a glarine example of "talk/ideology" is cheap in
politics and how it is the amoral realm of calculation
[in re: india].
\_ Further complicating things is that nearly all Pakistanis have
at least one relative in the Army. The "parallel economy"
flows both ways.
of the Taliban are too difficult to control and they have been
suicide bombing inside of Pakistan. This article is an excellent
read, but it might drive you to drink:
http://tinyurl.com/4npby9
\_ http://www.fas.org/irp/world/pakistan/isi
\_ Maybe Pakistan's military should do something other than
stand around like pussies. The reason they don't is that
Pakistanis are sympathetic to the Taliban. "Controlling the
Taliban" isn't on the To Do list.
\_ The tribal regions have never been under the control of the
Army or the Govt. They're pretty much autonomous, which is
why a) you hear plenty of horror stories about primitive
tribal law (e.g., rape as punishment), and b) the tribes have
made deals with the Taleban where beneficial to the tribes.
\_ Now is a good time to remedy that. People should be
registered, there should be checkpoints, heavy weapons
should be confiscated, the border should be watched
more closely, and documents issued/checked. This might
involve going house to house in each village. Build more
permanent bases in the region. That is how the US would
handle it. Once the machine guns and RPGs are off the
streets and the foreigners have been arrested or cleared
\_ wow. wow. You know it's easier to get weapons than
food & clean water in those regions right?
\_ Your point? You can't go in and build dams and
roads and other federally funded projects when
there are hostile morons roaming around with RPGs.
Cleaning up the mess that exists there and
imposing law is the first step to having food
and water instead of AK-47's.
then they can live somewhat normal lives again, but not
until then. Impose a curfew and take every male over 16
into custody (temporarily) if you have to.
\_ wow this is so idiotic, my god, you're an idiot.
\_ I agree. Lawless tribal areas are so much better for
US, Europe, and Pakistan than having some sort
of federal oversight.
\_ http://glumbert.com/media/gunmarket
\_ excellent video on The Gun Bazaar of Pakistan.
Thanks for sharing the video!
\_ good video, proves that the "round up everyone
evil" guy above is stupid.
\_ No, it's proof that the government needs to
regulate these weapons just like ours does.
\_ Yeah, that worked great in Somalia, Iraq,
Vietnam, etc...
\_ Working pretty well in Iraq and Vietnam
wasn't ever really lawless. Somalia was
a token effort. |
| 2008/9/12-19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:51153 Activity:low |
9/12 Perhaps it is a War with Pakistan that is the October Surprise:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080912/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_13
This seems kind of stupid, especially since Pakistan has nukes.
\_ Given that we know the problem with Pakistan and nukes, can you
think of why there might be a reason to do this anyway?
\_ There's never a reason for war. -liberal
\_ So civil war and ww2 were a waste of time?
\_ The GOP is behind in the polls?
\_ The GOP is behind the polls?
\- war is a "continuation of policy by other means" ... i dont think
the us has policy goals w.r.t. pakistan which require "going to
war" at the moment. rather it is a case of the us just ignoring
pakistan's sovereignty, cf. Melian Dialog: "the strong do what
they can and the weak suffer what they must." of course this is
an interesting norm for the us to push ... say while lecturing
russian about georgia, or in the future if say india decides
they need to attack inside pakistan based on goals relating
to india's kashmir policy [although this may be better deterred
by nukes]. pakistan was never the us's friend and the us not
taking india's side for many years shows how cheap political
rhetoic and ideology is [although to be expected in the
rhetoric and ideology is [although to be expected in the
anarchic international system].
\_ Do you know what a casus belli is?
\- yes, i do. do you know what "proechein/proschema" means?
(thucydides >> grotius, waltzer, augustine etc). anyway,
there is CB/normative, CB/propaganda and CB/empirical.
anyway, the point is "casus belli/normative aka "ius ad
bellum" has changed over time" (as has "ius in bello") ...
material resources, security dilemma, religious conversion
etc. the US/bush doctrine partly has been controversial
because it suggests a change in casus belli/normative.
as was say the monroe doctrine introducing [sic] the idea
of a "sphere of influence". of course, i'm only guessing
about "what is your point" ...
\_ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_10
\_ http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ocw7w
Pakistan is going to start shooting back, which kind of
puts a hole in your theory that they just have to put up
with our shenanigans.
\_ So what if Pakistan has nukes? I don't think they want to play
that game with USA. USA spent a lot of time and money
during the cold war planning engagements against an enemy
"with nukes".
\_ I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you. The
government is very shakey there right now and it is
not out of the question that we could end up with a bunch
of Muslim Brotherhood types running that country. It is
kind of hard to tell how they would react to their territorial
sovereignty being violated like that. |
| 2008/8/28-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50993 Activity:nil |
8/28 Solzhenitsyn's Harvard Address from 1978. Quite amazing, I'd never
read it.
http://csua.org/u/m82
\_ do you agree with it, or is it an interesting curiosity to you?
(it appears to support gw bush!)
"a decline in courage has been considered the beginning of the end"
"people also have the right not to know, and it is a much more
valuable one"
"socialism of any type and shade leads to a total destruction"
"politicians who signed the hasty Vietnam capitulation seemingly
gave America a carefree breathing pause; however, a hundredfold
Vietnam now looms"
"It is not possible that assessment of the President's performance
be reduced to the question of how much money one makes or of
unlimited availability of gasoline. Only voluntary, inspired
self-restraint can raise man above the world stream of materialism."
\_ Only if you read it selectivly and with blinders on. And now I
see from a Google search that seems to be a favorite talking
point on the right wing blogs these days.
\_ Actually I wasn't selective. If I'm blind, what did I miss?
\_ Bush is courageous? Didn't he turn tail and hide on 9/11?
\_ I can list about 500 reasons why Bush should be stuck on his
own prison planet. I don't use just one metric.
\_ Suggest you learn about his book 200 Years Together - might
reveal some insights on WWII, the power structure in this
country, and why you don't hear much about him these days. |
| 2008/8/26-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50972 Activity:nil |
8/26 Gary Glitter spent months in a Vietnamese prison cell. Can I vote
for him too?
\_ that's a fit punishment for writing "Rock and Roll Part II". -tom
\_ What are you talking about?
\_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter
\_ I know who Glitter is--I didn't ask *who* the op was talking
about.
\_ Did you see the part about how he was sent to jail in
Vietnam?
\_ BUD DAY doesn't appreciate what you are trying to imply here.
\_ OJ Simpson is a black celebrity. Can I vote for him too?
\_ Your analogy doesn't hold since Barack Obama isn't so much a
celebrity as a politician. Your analogy would work somewhat
better if you stated that the similarity between OJ and Barack
is that they're both black, but that would make you sound
racist, esp. as op drew parallels between experience and not
skin color. Would you like to try again?
\_ No, because you are incredibly stupid and not worth
conversing with.
\_ Yay! Win by annoying you! Yay! |
| 2008/8/18-21 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50892 Activity:nil |
8/18 Well, that was quick: Musharraf steps down:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7567451.stm |
| 2008/8/8-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50817 Activity:high |
8/8 Edwards admits affair, doesn't admit for being incredible
stupid dumbass who apparently thought having an affair and having
his life withstand the scrutiny of being a viablepres. candidate
were sustainable
\_ He's a Democrat. This is expected. No big deal. Suck dick,
fuck pussy, whatever. Just don't do anything stupid like
invading a country and getting ourselves into deep shit.
Look you fucking Conservatives. Adultery is a sustainable
business. Invading countries in the Holy Name of Freedom
is NOT a sustainable business. Ok?
\_ Liberals invaded Vietnam and Korea. Actually, liberals invaded
Iraq too, in the Senate anyway. Atheist liberals ran the USSR.
Look at the subways and efficient apartment buildings they built.
Iraq was a fucked up country already. I don't like that I had
to spend my tax dollars fixing their problems but in the long
run they will probably be better off. I dunno about us being
better off though. Also, Bush != "Conservatives". Bush is
not a classical conservative.
\_ "Liberals" invaded Vietnam and North Korea? Wtf are you
talking about? If you mean that Democrats got us involved in
those two conflicts, you seriously need to read a book some
time. The people who ran the Soviet Union are not the same
as the Clintons. Get out of the 50s. Wake up. -!pp
\_ Harry Truman.
\_ What, are you channeling Batman from the video below?
You're not making any sense. What are you trying to
say?
\_ "...liberals invaded Iraq too..." It's almost like
they're proud of being ignorant.
\_ Harry Truman was President when Vietnam started.
He was a Democrat.
\_ And? When did this supposed invasion occur?
\_ Well, I might argue it was when the first
American soldiers entered S. Vietnam. Or
could be during LBJ's term with passing of
the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.
the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. The start
and escalation of the conflict happened
with Democrats in office. They could have
just sent all Americans home but instead
sent troops. Sending troops is an invasion.
\_ In earnest after Gulf of Tonkin Resolution,
but before then even. Troops were pulled
out under a Republican, of course.
\_ Send combat troops to aid friendly
govt. != invade. Running away !=
pulling troops.
\_ Ask the Vietnamese if they consider
it an invasion.
\_ North or South?
\_ Either/or. Fully 80% of Vietnamese,
whether in the North or South,
considered the US an unwanted
aggressor. It's one reason we
left. No one wanted us there
except a minority of elites.
\_ Truman? Are you proud of being ignorant? The
puppet state was set up by Eisenhower.
\_ Are you proud of being a douchebag?
Truman started it. (D) Kennedy was the first
to send combat troops. (D)
\_ You keep saying that "Truman started it" but
you are unable to explain what you mean by
"it." The nation of Vietnam? It has existed
for at least 1000 years. Try again, in
English this time.
\_ Duh, US military involvement in Vietnam.
Do you have a cognitive impediment?
The point was, Democrats got us involved
in the Vietnam War (and Korea). Why not
explicitly say whatever it is you think
refutes this instead of dancing around
with your head in your ass?
(the puppet government is irrelevant)
\_ Christ, if you're going to go down
this route, why not just say that
Wilson started it when he wouldn't
hear out Ho Chi Minh's proposal for
Viet independence after the signing
of the Treaty of Versailles?
\_ Because Kennedy and LBJ are the
ones who actually started US
combat operations in Vietnam.
Keep dancing.
\_ I can't wipe out a lifetime of
ignorance in a few paragraphs, sorry.
From the Vietnamese eyes, the
Vietnamese war of independence started
in 1885. The first direct US involve-
ment in Vietnam was during WWII, so you
might as well blame FDR. The actual
Civil War between north and south
started during Eisenhower and JFK sent
sent first US combat troops Trying to pin
US involvement in Vietname on Truman
is just bizarre.
sent first US combat troops. Trying to
pin US involvement in Vietname on
pin US involvement in Vietnam on
Truman is just bizarre.
\_ Truman was President first and
the US was already involved
militarily by the time Eisenhower
was elected. However, you can blame
FDR, too, if you want.
\_ Google MAAG
Besides, we sure were lucky D's were
elected and stopped the conflict before it
got out of hand!
\_ So your claim is that the US/Vietnam conflict
started while Vietnam was still a French
colony under French control? How did you do
in your history classes? Get any A's?
colony under French control?
\_ No, my claim is that US military
involvement started then.
\_ You're wrong.
\_ Am I? Whew. Thank you for, um, your convincing
argument backed up with facts.
\_ My point exactly! Have a cigar. And a dick.
\_ No thanks, you're a big enough dick for
the both of us.
\_ Shit, good thing the Democrats didn't nominate him.
\_ What happened to 'mccain has affair, nytimes reports on it,
mccain served in vietnam so no one follows up' |
| 2008/7/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50528 Activity:kinda low |
7/9 Why do foreign companies like Toyota start new manuafcturing plants
here in the US? Should they be going to China or Thailand or India
where blue-collar labor costs are much lower and regulations are
looser?
\_ It is a way to get around protectionist US import quotas.
\- YMWTFG(Voluntary Export Restraints)
\_ It's good public relations. More recently, some manufacturing
work is moving back to the US due to the higher costs of
shipping product from overseas.
\_ It's cheaper to build it here when you're selling it here.
\_ Which is key. The parts are built out of country. Parts are
easier to ship and easier to do JIT delivery over long time
frames. Labor savings are not as important as being local when
it comes to the finished car. (Also us workers, while costly
are also pretty damn educated and OSHA laws actually have huge
benefits when it comes to not losing educated workers or time.)
\_ I didn't know these. Thanks. -- OP |
| 2008/7/9-13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:50519 Activity:nil |
7/9 Okay, maybe we should be bombing Pakistan after all
http://storage.karachikids.com/process/trailerview.html |
| 2008/6/24-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50361 Activity:nil 66%like:50358 |
6/24 Correlation between temperature, skin color, and IQ:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yvaru4 [majority rights]
\_ What, you couldn't find a stormfront link? |
| 2008/6/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50358 Activity:nil 66%like:50361 |
6/24 Correlation between temperature, skin color, and IQ:
http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/intelligence_and_skin_color |
| 2008/6/8-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:50185 Activity:nil |
6/8 US News reprints McCain's first person POW account from '73.
http://csua.org/u/lq4 |
| 2008/5/10-16 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49928 Activity:nil |
5/10 will more hot desi women move to the states, now that
all of India is about to run out of water?
http://tinyurl.com/3q27x2
\- No, they wll be moving to Australia, starting in August.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGzGIef4GqE&feature=related |
| 2008/4/16-23 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49760 Activity:nil |
4/15 Being a controversial book aside, IQ and the Wealth of Nations
shows that we're the SMARTEST NATION BABY!!! 107! bahaha -proud hk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations
\_ I'm an athiest and I'm smarter than everyone else!
http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm
\_ http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/09/24/headsize_hum.html
Head size has some correlation with IQ. YEAH BABY -big head Asian
\_ You're also uglier than everyone else.
\_ I don't listen to country music, therefore I'm smart!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmwwn/is_200405/ai_kepm460196
\- northerners are smarter. S Cal people are STUPID:
http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2007/04/intelligence-and-latitude-in-us.html
http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/SGXXRFsOtha6cGEMGuwWF2-
http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/SGXXRFsOtha6Rpll-bPvF2-
http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/SGXXRFsOtha6IpVbiPPvF2-
http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2007/03/map-of-estimated-average-iq-by-state-in.html
\_ Attractiveness inversely correlates with intelligence, so NoCal
people are UGLY. SoCal people are beautiful.
\_ It's true. Plan B Gentlement's Club, Spearmint Rhino,
4 Play, Deja VU Showgirls are consistently better than
any of the strip clubs I go to in N Cal. I mean just
compare gorgeous babes in S Cal beaches vs. smelly
hippy bitches in N Cal. Moral of the story: If you wanna
get laid with dumb bimbos, S Cal is THE place baby!
\_ ob dumb blonde joke.
\_ I didn't realize HK was a nation. I guess the authors have
a low IQ.
\_ Nor was Puerto Rico. BTW Macau (avg IQ 104) is mentioned in the
text but not in the table. Maybe the author is not completely
dumb after all.
\_ Wow! The big dragon and the four small dragons of Asia took the top
five spots.
\_ And Germany is #7. Obviously, Hitler knew what he was doing.
\_ What I see from this graph:
Light colored athiest >> Christians > Muslims > colored athiests |
| 2008/3/23-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49541 Activity:low |
3/23 Democracy comes to isolated kingdom - Yahoo! News:
http://www.csua.org/u/l3q
'"If you had a referendum, even today, Bhutan would reject democracy.
That's the ground reality," said Khandu Wangchuk, the burly, gravel-
voiced former foreign minister who is running for a seat in the
western town of Paro. "But there's no use wishing democracy away."'
Between the Democratic presidential nomination and the Taiwan election
yesterday, this is strange news.
\- Bhutan is not a "normal place". The "gross national happiness"
would be a lot lower if not for massive indian subsidies.
would be a lot lower if not for massive Indian subsidies.
Imagine Hawaii without govt handouts, and the govt not turning a
blind eye to Hawaiian price discrimination etc. For example
Bhutanese can buy cars heavily subsidiezed by find from India,
which they then turn around and sell at a profit to Indians ...
rinse and repeat. Also they have no foreign policy/defense
expenditure etc.
Bhutanese can buy cars heavily subsidized by India, which they
then turn around and sell at a profit to Indians ... rinse and
repeat. Also they have no foreign policy/defense expenditure etc.
And this doesn include airport, power, road building etc
subsidies or outright construction. Bhutan = leech.
\_ The Feb. Natl Geo paints those subsidies as India buying hydro-
electric power. Is this not a correct depiction?
\- I have not read the National Geographic article, so I
cannot comment on that, but there is very large development
subsisdies as well as non-developmental subsidies from
India. Bhutan doesnt do anything other than moderate
tourism. Bhutan = leech. |
| 2008/2/28-3/4 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49288 Activity:nil |
2/28 Prince Harry looking like a bad-ass American GI:
http://www.csua.org/u/kx1 (Yahoo! News Photos)
\_ Doesn't he look more like a British soldier?
\_ But that face looks more like an American GI in Vietnam to me.
-- OP |
| 2008/2/14-18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49139 Activity:nil |
2/14 Smoking and latent tuberculosis form a synergy of death.
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSDEL3907720080213?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10010
This is a case were YOUR bad habit can cause YOU to become
infectious and deadly to others, far beyond just "secondhand smoke".
\_ even MORE reasons to move away from city-dwelling liburals
and retreat to my gated suburban community -Republican
\_ "The results are partly explained by the fact that, unlike in the
West, many people in India are infected with asymptomatic
tuberculosis. Smoking can cause enough damage to the lungs that
the latent infection can no longer be contained, researchers said."
Where do you draw the connection of smoking being infectious and
deadly to others?
\_ Latent tuberculosis is not generally transmissable to others.
Active tuberculosis IS. Smoking activates latent
tuberculosis. Is the connection clear now?
\_ Okay, so in India, where latent tuberculosis is prevalent,
a culture of smoking keeps activating the virus and making
it more likely to spread. Thank goodness that's not the
case here in the States. |
| 2008/2/3-7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:49056 Activity:nil |
2/3 Maybe old news - McCain's racist remark from Seattle Post-Intelligencer
March 2, 2000: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/hongop.shtml
\_ I've heard it before. I was always a little confused though.
Doesn't 'gook' refer to Koreans?
\_ Generally considered a reference to Vietnamese. Might have been
repurposed from Korean Conflict.
\_ I've heard the term referenced against both, but more often
referenced against Vietnamese.
\_ More to the point, it's a word the soldiers used to refer to the
NVA.
\- hanguk -> korea. Dae Han Min Gook!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCZ_mbHt30g
\_ If ever I would forgive anyone for racism, it's McCain for being
racist against Vietnamese. |
| 2007/8/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:47501 Activity:high 75%like:47503 |
8/1 Because of this increase in cooperation from local Vietnamese in
confronting the Vietcong and other extremist groups, the number of
weapons caches seized in Vietnam has increased dramatically, already at
3,700 in the first 7 months of 1967. Only 2,726 terrorist and
insurgent weapons caches were removed from circulation in all 1966.
http://www.csua.org/u/j97
\_ ok that was pretty good. |
| 2007/2/9-12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:45697 Activity:low |
2/9 On August 2nd, the USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese
P-4 patrol boats 28 miles away from the North Vietnamese coast in
international waters...
http://csua.org/u/i0x
\_ Huh?
\_ Excuse me, which tree-hugging hippie commune did fall out of?
Iraq is not Vietnam. And North Vietnam is not Iran.
\_ I think Iran is 100x worse than Vietnam. Our oil was not
under Vietnam. Goddamn Bush!
\_ Yeah, how stupid of him was it to put all our oil under
Iran? Why didn't he put our oil under Texas or Alaska
or something?
\_ Because his Saudi oil masters wouldn't let him.
"We are merely exchanging long protein strings. If you can
think of a simpler way, I'd like to hear it."
\_ Well that was stupid to put the oil under Saudi Arabia
then, wasn't it? |
| 2006/10/9-10 [Transportation/Motorcycle, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:44740 Activity:low |
10/10 Think Los Angeles traffic is bad? Go to India:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2063667852598904740&hl=en
\_ True. And if you think any US traffic is bad, go to any
non-Western country.
\_ This video is sped up at least twice. |
| 2006/9/19-22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:44455 Activity:nil |
9/19 Who are the fucking Prisoners at Gitmo?
"After two months of sifting the fucking information, Hegland had her answer...
It showed that most of the fucking detainees hadn't been caught 'on the
battlefield' but rather mostly in Pakistan; fewer than half were
accused of fighting against the fucking U.S., and there was scant evidence to
confirm that they were even combatants. In other words, most of the
detainees probably were entirely innocent."
http://www.cjr.org/issues/2006/5/Umanskyb.asp?printerfriendly=yes |
| 2006/7/9-10 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:43607 Activity:low |
7/9 ok, India just test fire a missile that is capable of carry nuclear
warhead and has the range to hit Beijing.
How come there is no "concern" when India test its missile and
develop nuclear bomb?
http://voanews.com/english/2006-07-09-voa21.cfm
\_ Why the "quotes" around "concern"? Probably India actually notified
other nations of the test and where the rockets were pointed. And
of course Kim Jong Il is a crazy little man.
\-^man^rocketman:
http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Economist/RocketMan.jpg
re: india, what are you "worried" about?
\_ Rocketman!? We'd better send him to pick up the hash in
Potsdam.
\_ how come there is no talk of saction again India? I mean
missile testing alone is not an illegal act. our over-reaction
was anticipated thus being leveraged by Kim Jong Il.
\_ Wow, the Purina Troll Chow is really getting results! -John
\_ The politically correct answer is because India is a
democratic society, unlike NK, therefore they will not go
nuts and start to attack others. But seeing how we've set a
perfect example of how corporate greed and money can
overweight right and wrong in a democratic society, I think
we should be making a bit deal out of it too. Who knows,
India may decide to bomb little countries that have oil
too.
\_ No, the answer is simply because India is a responsible
country and NK is not. Iran is not. Israel is. The US is.
Britan is. China is. France is. And at the moment, for the
time being, Pakistan is. |
| 2006/5/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:43006 Activity:low |
5/10 Why is the troop death toll in Iraq so low? Technology! If someone's
gonna die, just stick in a feeding tube. Voila! One less death.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/10/iraq.medics
\_ so it is worse than Vietnam then.. our technology today
is just lowering the kill count
\_ "If you look at the overall death rate ... the case fatality
rate is cut in half from Vietnam to now. And again I think that's
due to better training, tactical combat casualty training,"
I dunno about worse or better. But to think about it: 2500 US
soldiers have died in about 3 years, the senior surgeon above
says that could be double without the better training, so it
potentially could have been 5000 US dead. We were in Vietnam
for ~13 years, so 4 times longer than Iraq so far means:
5000 * 4 = 20,000 hypothetical fatalities vs. ~50,000 in Vietnam.
\_ Yeah, but there are many reasons why the fatality rate
is so much lower; medical technology, training, night vision,
more effective body armor, etc. Lacking context, the
comparison doesn't really communicate very much.
\_ take into account the terrain.. the jungle was much
more difficult to spot.. in iraq it should be much easier
... we need tech to detech roadside bombs...
\_ Err, comparing the Vietnam era, draft military to the
current day armed forces is meaningless.
\_ traditionaly, we count casualties, not death.
casualties ~= death + injured + captured. By that account, we
have close to 20k casualties out of 110k+ force. The ratio is
relatively high due to the small total force committed.
\_ "Traditionally" "voila" - take any battle from any pre-vietnam
war. Learn what casualties really mean.
\_ so it is worse than Vietnam then.. our technology today
is just lowering the kill count
\_ "If you look at the overall death rate ... the case fatality
rate is cut in half from Vietnam to now. And again I think that's
due to better training, tactical combat casualty training,"
I dunno about worse or better. But to think about it: 2500 US
soldiers have died in about 3 years, the senior surgeon above
says that could be double without the better training, so it
potentially could have been 5000 US dead. We were in Vietnam
for ~13 years, so 4 times longer than Iraq so far means:
5000 * 4 = 20,000 hypothetical fatalities vs. ~50,000 in Vietnam.
\_ Yeah, but there are many reasons why the fatality rate
is so much lower; medical technology, training, night vision,
more effective body armor, etc. Lacking context, the
comparison doesn't really communicate very much.
\_ take into account the terrain.. the jungle was much
more difficult to spot.. in iraq it should be much easier
... we need tech to detech roadside bombs...
\_ Err, comparing the Vietnam era, draft military to the
current day armed forces is meaningless. |
| 2006/3/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Health/Women] UID:42522 Activity:nil |
3/29 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4855682.stm Indian doctor aborts female fetuses in a land that prefers boys over girls, is jailed. \_ this practice makes Indian girls all the more exotic and precious. I feel bad for Indian men who can't find a mate. Ya reap what ya sow... then again, Muslims are worse. \_ Don't forget to mention how a lot of your friends are muslim. |
| 2006/3/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:42474 Activity:nil |
3/27 yes. muslims are psychos.. DIVORCE in sleep.. no need for vegas
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/03/27/india.religion.reut
index.html
\_ This is in India, a country whose history of bureaucracy is
surpassed only by China's. Cf. also the endosulfan, India's
Living Dead: http://csua.org/u/fcq (TIME Asia) |
| 2006/3/1-4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:42054 Activity:nil |
3/1 ACM has produced a significant new report on the impact
of offshoring/outsourcing on the IT industry:
http://www.acm.org/globalizationreport
Executive Summary and Findings:
http://www.acm.org/globalizationreport/summary.htm
Bottom line: not nearly as bad as some had thought.
http://CCNMoney.com article
http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/23/news/economy/jobs_it_offshoring |
| 2006/2/15-17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:41878 Activity:high |
2/15 New Torture images from Abu Ghirab released
http://www.uruknet.info/?s1=55&p=20656&s2=15
(warning, not for the faint of heart)
\_ Yet not one picture of these 'cartoons'?
\_ Um, heard of google?
\_ In how many major publications are the cartoons?
\_ curious about the timing, though. why they release it now?
\_ Some Aussie publishers were probably getting jealous that
the US image in the middle east wasn't being tarnished as
much by the European caricature fallout, so they decided to
"correct" this situation.
\_ The ACLU just won a FOIA challange.
\_ The liberal media can't stand Muslims looking like
barbarians, so they want to remind everyone the US is
worse.
\_ both muslims and US are barbarians.
\_ Only great han nation not barbarian.
\_ Everyone is a barbarian, only great GERMAN HANS
JOHN not barbarian. HEIL JOHN!
\_ indians are not barbarians either. very
civilized country.
\_ Unless you are in the wrong caste.
\_ caste is slowly disappearing in india,
whereas social mobility has been getting
worse in the US the last 2 decades.
\_ Are you talking out of your ass or do you
have reputable research that support
your statement?
\_ I read. try to do the same, or if
that's beyond your mental capacity,
you can always use google as your
brain.
\_ I read. you can always use google.
\_ If you don't like it then get the fuck
out of my country !williamc
\_ i am just stating facts reported
by the wsj. no need to get all
flustered.
\_ Repeat this five times to yourself,
perhaps in front of a mirror, and
you'll realize how stupid this sounds.
\_ this whole thread is stupid,
especially starting from the "liberal
media" part. yea, and the knee jerk
"caste!" reaction whenever india is
mentioned sure is intelligent. you
should look in the mirror yourself.
\_ Civilized nations don't have castes
in the 21st century, slowly
disappearing or not. It's disingenuous
to ignore that hideous aspect of
Hindu culture. "Look in the
mirror" indeed.
\_ Civilized nations also don't
torture people.
\_ I disagree. Besides, the
treatment of one's enemy
is quite different from
treatment of one's own people.
\_ yea sure, the Hutus didn't
kill their own either.
They only butchered the
Tutsis. So very
civilized.
\_ Do you have a point with
that comment? I'm sure
Pakistanis are treated
well in Kashmir, right?
\_ Do you have a point
with that comment?
Regardless of what
happens in Kashmir,
you are still as
civilized as a
baboon.
\_ The treatment of ones
enemy is the clearest
indication of ones
worth.
I also fail to see how
you can compare the
caste system to torture.
What do you even know
about the caste system?
Did you know that most
brahmins were/are dirt
poor and depended on
poor and depend on
begging and handouts to
support themselves?
\- um this isnt true in any
meaningful way.
\_ My experience
indicates that
it is. We can
disagree, but
the domination
of the brahmins
is in my exp.
a grotesque
exaggeration of
the so-called
backwards com-
munities.
When one sees the plight
of the majority of the
"high born" one wonders
whether it is not a
curse, rather than a
blessing.
\_ Tell em to get jobs like
everyone else.
\_ Why not? What exactly is the
problem your perceive w/ the
caste system? That your birth
problem you have w/ the caste
system? That your birth
precludes you from becoming a
hindu priest? For, in reality,
that is the ONLY restriction
which caste places on a man.
hindu priest? In reality that
is the ONLY restriction that
caste places on a man.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040113/asp/nation/story_2780541.asp _/
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0306/feature1
\_ What does this have to do w/ the caste system?
Those who act in this way do so w/ a completely
incorrect understanding of the caste system.
The caste system classifies men into certain
stations based primarily on their conduct, not
on their birth. Those who committed these crimes
have no claim to any caste.
To point to such people as the true and proper
illustration of the caste system would be akin
to pointing to hamas terrorists as the true and
proper illustration of Islam or cross-buring KKK
members as true and proper Christians.
\_ The stuff in those links reflects on India and this is a thread
where somebody claimed India is extra civilized.
\_ wait. what does this has to do with whether US and muslims
are barbarians?
\_ I think someone here is in denial. |
| 2006/1/20-23 [Finance/CC, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:41461 Activity:kinda low |
1/20 So some guy (with an obvious Indian accent) calls me at home
and says he's calling about some govt consumer grant where I can
get up to $5000 and they will send me a package with an application
and I can apply for the grant? I was skeptical and just asked him
if he was from India and he got pissed off and hung up on me. So,
do all the soda motders think this guy was really working for the
govt and that they were calling me so I could apply for a grant,
or is it more likely some scam? He knew my name already, and
didn't ask for any more information from me.
\- maybe he was really from pakistan.
\_ I'm from the Government and I'm here to help!
\_ Maybe you should've asked if he was *in* India.
\_ Well, I asked him where he was and he said he was in
St. Petersberg, FL. Later, I asked if he was from India.
He said his last name was Rodgers, but he had an obvious
foreign accent. -op
\_ Sounds like a scam to me. Here:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/scam_alerts/grant.html
But here's a rule of thumb: if it appeals to your greed, it's
likely to be a scam. I mean, how eager are you to give someone
something for nothing? --PM
\- one of my credit card companies offered me i think $25,000
for a year at 0% interest for $75 up front. after it became
clear i didnt "need" the money, we actually had sort of an
interesting conversation ... i said "that is below mkt interest"
and she said she knew but they sort of rely on people screwing
up and not being able to pay back or forgetting ... and then
complimented be on having a high savings rate. that was a weirdly
refreshing conversation. you got the sense the person at the
other end was reasonable sharp and not a telemarketing drone.
\_ YMEW
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/view |
| 2006/1/2-4 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:41200 Activity:high |
1/2 A friend of mine is considering Peace Corps. I've heard that it used
to be a good program but in the past 25 years has lost a lot of its
original lustre, that countries need more help managing resources
than 22 year olds teaching them about sanitation, etc. Does anyone
have any experience w/ Peace Corps? Or know of any good criticisms
of the program? I'll start with:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/project/content/project/peacecorps/daily/1104voiceag.html
\_ Use tinyurl. I just met a woman who is some sort of Africa
\_ why?
\_ why?
\_ why ask why?
\_ why not?
\_ why ask why not?
\_ Why not ask why not?
expert in the peace corps and who described a lot of what they
do very openly. Apparently there's still a lot of need for
outfits like PC--NGOs, as they are not guaranteed funding, tend
to be very self-interested. If you like, I can put you in touch
with her (she was a good friend's roommate at GWU Law.) -John
\_ My understanding is people who can teach English and maybe
elementary math are a dime a dozen. If you are a Civil Engineer
or Medical Professional, who may be quite a hot commodity.
However, that may also mean you can go into a USAID project
or MSF/DrsWithoutBorders type program. I dunno if a vast
knowledge of say BGP can be used by the Peace Corps.
The do have a lot of restrictions, but I assume you have
discovered some of those in your preliminary research.
\_ My cousin is currently in the Peace Corps in Latin America.
He seems to enjoy the actual work he does (I think he has
been involved in getting farmers access to new markets via
the internet and other such programs based on micro loans,
but I'm not 100% sure).
He has expressed some reservations about the way the Peace
Corps is administered and the fact that in some places local
politics can get in the way of providing any real assistance.
iirc, in one town where my cousin worked, the local mayor
actively resisted any work done by Peace Corps ppl b/c he
felt that they didn't really understand the local situation.
One problem I've seen with the Peace Corps is that they don't
really train the people with real world skills like building
homes or paving or farming before sending them out (most of
the people I know who did Peace Corps weren't engineers) so
they end up in big or small cities where they can't really
do anything very too useful.
For historical reference, my mom used to tell me stories of
people who did Peace Corps in India. She says they mostly
acted like tourists, walking around from village to village,
giving out money and stuff. Mostly she says it was pretty
lame because in a country like India, a few random english
majors can't solve inherent problems related to lack of
education and opportunity.
the internet and other such programs but I'm not 100% sure).
I remember he described some problems with the way the PC
is administered and local government resistance. If you
want to talk to him, let me know and I'll try to put you
in contact with him.
--ranga
want to talk to him, let me know and I'll try to get you
some contact info (I don't think he has email access right
now). --ranga
\_ primrose got back recently from a tour in the corps in togo
\_ My girlfriend spent two years in the Peace Corps in Honduras.
We went to visit her adopted Honduran family a couple years
ago. I think her impression is that the Peace Corps does good
work, but the problems tend to be endemic and difficult to
overcome. It's certainly true that the Corps and all NGOs
have great difficulty effecting change, due to local politics,
corruption, and poverty.
It is worth noting that the Peace Corps doesn't sponsor projects;
Peace Corps volunteers are assigned to a project run by a local
organization or NGO. There is also a wide range of types of
work to do, from health and science education, to business
development, to engineering. Apparently taxidermy is one of
the most sought-after skills due to the huge problems of
species endangerment and extinction in poor countries.
It is a truism that Peace Corps volunteers get more out of the
experience than the countries get out of the programs. -tom
\_ Join the Peace Corps: travel to exotic countries, encounter
interesting and stimulating species of ancient eras.... and
embalm them.
\_ If I join the peace corps, will I get to have sex with all
the local girls???? -what sodans really want to know!
\_ "get to"? |
| 2005/12/22-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Finance/Investment] UID:41122 Activity:low |
12/22 For my motd investment buddy.
I was looking at TKF (Turkish Investment Fund) and I noticed the
following:
http://www.etfconnect.com/select/fundPages/global.asp?MFID=3857
Closing NAV: $18.97
Closing Share Price: $23.85
Premium/(Discount): 25.72%
As a comparison, IFN (India Fund) has a premium of 5.05%
And the CEE you also recommended has a discount of 3.9%
Would you be worried about the 25.72% premium?
\_ Yeah, it worries me. Especially since I own some TKF. I wish
there was some other way to get exposure to Turkey. Do you
know of any?
\_ I don't know any other. Thanks for the CEE tip.
I will sell half my EUROX first thing 2006, and buy
CEE with the money. 2006 so I don't pay capital
gains until 2007. |
| 2005/12/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:40878 Activity:low |
12/6 I read that the PAKI in Pakistan stands for: Pashtun, Afgan,
Kashmiris and Iranians. Is that true?
\_ Yes, because all acronyms around the world are from English
transliterations, so as to make it easy for the U.S. media market.
\- no
\_ Short for Pakistani. Don't call an Indian a Paki unless you
want to insult them.
\_ I thought "Paki" was insulting for Pakistanis as well.
\- i assume the quetion was about "where does the name
"pakistan" come from, not about the usage of the
epithet "paki". some people say "wog" stands for
western oriential gentleman but that is probably not
true and it is just a nasty term that ex post had
various faux meanings attached to it. punjab on the
other hand certainly is from "5+waters". "paki"
i think is urdu for pure or sacred or something like that.
i dont know the origin. but it certainly isnt like say
"benelux" etc. anybody claiming "kashmir is an essential
part of pakistan and is the k in the name" is either confused
or bullshitting. the P if anything would be for punjab which
is much more important than pashtoon. and sind is left out.
YMWTS: http://home.lbl.gov:8080/~psb/Humor/Peccavi.txt
i note in passing, the indian national anthem does have a
sanskritized list of parts of india.
\_ easy to assess the veracity of the claims made in this web site:
http://geography.about.com/library/misc/blpakname.htm |
| 2005/11/13-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:40564 Activity:low |
11/13 Dropping The Bomb on Vietnam Myths
http://udallasnews.com/global_user_elements/printpage.cfm?storyid=1033294
Burkett has exposed innumberable purported Vets as frauds, including
many who were deified by their media counterparts such as Dan Rather.
\_ this message was brought to you by jblack who forgot to take
his daily medication today.
\_ Have you stopped beating your dead horse?
\_ the 5 million Vietnamese dead will be glad to know
they did not die atrociously.
\_ i'm sure you're right but that has nothing to do with this link.
criticism is always much stronger when it's on target.
\_ actually, i'm sure both burkett and the 5 million dead guy
are right on a fact-by-fact basis. it's just that burkett is
the guy who puts forward the strawmen. |
| 2005/10/5-6 [Industry/Jobs, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:39990 Activity:moderate |
10/5 Hypothetical question: Suppose there's a shortage of resources,
should the free market take its course which will hopefully
make self-corrections, or should the government intervene and
ration resources? What are the pros and cons for either approaches?
\_ don't know about pro and con, I just know that in reality,
free market is never allowed to distribute critical/essential
resources anywhere in the world during severe shortage, rather
it is food, water, petro, or steel.
\_ It happens everyday. A house costs more than an apple because
houses are harder to build and require more resources to do so
than an apple. A car costs more than an apple but less than a
house for the same reason. What is your question?
\- A1 steak sauce is $5. You can get a DVD player for $30.
I am not sure these things are really "a priori".
\_ Wrong comparison. How about comparing the A1 to the
B&O DVD player instead, or the generic brand sauce to
the no-namo DVD player? Either the more expensive one
took more work/more expensive ingredients, or they
successfully created an artificial demand (viz.
Godiva $5 chocolate covered strawberries.) Either
way you've proven that the market sets prices. -John
\- i am not sure what your point is but i didnt
really elabroate on mine. 10 years ago i think
somebody reflecting on "how difficult is it to
make steak sauce vs a dvd player" probably would
not have guessed the difference in price would
be under 6:1. so this idea of "difficulty" is
probably not meaningful outside the mkt price.
i am getting at the notion of price signals
in the hayakian sense. in fact i think you
should abandon the whole notion of "difficulty
to build" or resource use and just look at things
more abstractly ... this building/resource approach
might apply to mfgring [but really you have to
look at return on optimal mix of K,L since something
can become "easier" by investing more money] but
really doesnt apply to something like haircuts.
in the abstract setting you consider price,
willingness to pay, the difference being consumer
surplus, the marginal and average costs and then
thigns can get more complicated when you factor
in asymmetric information [like when the same
in assymetric information [like when the same
disposable contact lenses were sold at different
prices because they were labelled for diff #hrs].
here is an interesting question: movies clearly
cost $10m to $200m+ ... but why are all movie
tickets ~$10.
\_ Partha, It would be much easier to reply to you
if you used a spelling checker and didn't
ramble for 3 pages. As it is, I don't assume
that you're interested. -John
\_ Because the cost of a $200m is spread over a
much larger number of viewers. A blockbuster
will make a billion $ in sales (us, domestic, and
dvd) vs a less expensive film which is also less
likely to be known and recover it's costs. Also,
a big chunk of the "cost" of a $200m film is in
marketing and PR and often a $50MM/film hollywood
actor. I suspect most films will do just as well
or as poorly without all that junk heaped on top
of the base production cost. For example, the
Spiderman flick did super well with a no-name
actor (and now every moron in hollywood wants to
be a super hero) but Electra was a total bomb and
so was Dare Devil with well known actors who made
oodles more cash than the SM kid. Ok, nvm, I'm
way off topic and now ranting about the stupidity
of hollywood. I feel better now. :-)
\_ Why can't I afford to buy a house when I am a hardworking
intelligent person, while some dot-com millionaire who got
his money through sheer good luck instead of hard work lives
in a mansion and has a hot girlfriend?
\_ Because you live in the Bay area(or southern california).
\_ Because you live in the Bay area (or southern california).
It really is that simple. Anywhere else in the country
you'd be able to afford a home. No, I don't know how much
you make, but in most of the country, buying a house with
a 25k/year salary is feasable.
\_ You should've gone to medical school.
\_ This is why I stopped being a coder and went to law
school.
BTW, perhaps you should look down as well as up - there
are BILLIONS of people in this world who weren't lucky
enough to be born into a country where opportunity and
prosperity is everywhere and hardly anyone concerns
themselves about things like potable water and edible
food. One may easily ask what EXACTLY we did to deserve
our comfortable existence while everyone else continues
to struggle just to survive.
\_ Except many lawyers don't make all that much more than
a good s/w engineer. There might be more job security,
but maybe not. Medical school is your best bet.
\_ The problem w/ engineering is that there is no
long term job prospect - esp. in the valley.
Whatever your skill set is, it eventually goes
stale and some young kid is going to be better
at your job and mgmt can get rid of you and pay
him less to get the same work.
The practice of law is different, experience counts
and many practice areas never go stale b/c people
keep having the same problems over and over again.
BTW, the pay is better ~ 110-125K start.
\- also lawyers and doctors are smarter about
restricting competition.
\_ Are lawyers and doctors smarter about restricting
competition, or is less competent engineering
more acceptable (in the sense less subject to
remedy by the court system) than less competent
medical or legal service? Not in the sense that
foreign engineers are less competent, but that
official certification of engineering training
has greater value.
\_ I think he means that you can't practice
as a doctor/lawyer unless you pass an exam
and its reasonably hard to pass that exam.
There is nothing comparable to that in eng.
Sure there is PE, but outside of Civil hardly
anyone cares. In coding I'm not exactly
sure what difference an exam would make
b/c most of the really good coders I've met
were mathematicians, physicists, &c. rather
than EE/CS so an exam might actually keep
good people out.
Re less competent engineering - Just work
on any big project and you will find lots
of stuff that doesn't work or wasn't well
thought out, &c. The impact of something
like this is less unlike giving someone
the wrong medication or failing to file
a motion in a timely fashion, &c. At worst
you will lose some money.
\- the practice is law is defined very
broadly [see the infamous Nolo v.
Texas case. I actually wonder if
HARRIET THE JUDGE had a role in that]
as are medical practices ... like
you cannot to the best of my knowledge
go to a dental hygenist for a tooth
cleaning without a dentist involved
or go to an optician for a an
eye power measurement. however a non
PE engineer can do lots of work. my
parent never bothered to get a PE till
maybe 15yrs after his phd and had
billions of dollars of projects
under his belt. in the 70s the AMA
made certain certification test changes
specfically targetted at incoming
russian and indian doctors. i actually
think there are a fair number of sort
of iffy doctors. as they saying goes,
"what do they call the guy who graduated
at the bottom of his med school class?"
"doctor". but yeah, probably fewer
leem doctors because there arent that
many med schools. there are a lot of
clown lawyers and a huger number of
leem law schools and some of them may
have automatic bar pass ... i doubt
a lot of the PDs in boise are very good.
\_ no matter how many clown lawyers
\_ not matter how many clown lawyers
there are - and I agree there are
lots and lots of clowns - there
are clearly many more clown eng-
ineers. It doesn't take much to
get an engineering degree or to
find a entry level engineering
job. Maybe you don't meet these
\_ I believe it is harder to get an
engineering degree than a law
degree.
\_ Law school seems far
more difficult to me.
In engineering you
could get by w/o do-
ing much (I managed
3.0+ and I can barely
integrate)
\_ Did you take any humanities
classes? Anyone can get
a 3.0 at a CSU and get
into a mediocre law
school. Overall, I find
the average engineer to
be much smarter than
the average lawyer.
\- I was pretty much in
the middle of the pack
in upper div and grad
math/science classes
I took, but I was
definitely "order of
coif" the ConLaw,
coif"/summa in ConLaw,
I took (and at the dumb
end of a few seminars),
but I was definitely
"order of coif"/summa
cum laude in ConLaw,
Law&Econ, BusinessLaw,
Legal Philosophy, Legal
History and Law Seminars
I took.
I took, however these
were in academic depts,
not the law school for
the most part. (--not PP)
the most part. The people
in philosophy were prob
the smartest humanities
people. (--not PP)
people and a few smart
in econ. Pol Sci and Bus
school people were dumb
or apathetic usually.
(--not PP)
in my experience hum/
socsci grad students
in legit depts who are
legit admits are usually
sharper than most Boalt
students. (--not PP)
\_ I took a few, but
I mostly avoided
humanities b/c they
were a lot more work
than upper-division
engineering classes.
I'm guessing that if
someone like me can
make it through cal
engineering, it must
be *really* easy to
get an engineering
degree.
jokers in the ivory tower, but
I used to bump into them every
day in the valley.
\- hello, accroding to Bureau
of Labor Statistics:
stats.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
compared to ~.9million people
licensed to practice law.
\_ Maybe I'm reading this
wrong but according to
bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm
there are about 700K
lawyers, while there
are about 1.5 million
engineers (+ 675K soft-
ware engineers:
bls.gov/oco/ocos267.htm).
\- there are a lot of
"paraengineers" who may
be called engineers, while
there are paralegals who
are not lawyers. i have to
go to mcdonalds now.
russian and indian doctors.
job.
\_ so what? is your
determination of
what an engineer
is somehow more
authoritative?
\_ I read an article in WSJ that says lots of
companies are outsourcing jobs to lawyers in
India (eg. patent research). It also says
that in India job status ranking is:
engineer > doctor > accoutant > lawyer
Is that true?
\_ Re outsourcing - what I've seen is
that some of the grunt work of writing
a patent and lots of the prior art
searching has been moved offshore,
but the real legal work (esp. in
litigation and patent counseling
remains here).
Re India job ranking - partially true.
Software engineers are at the top of
the totem pole, but regular engineers
aren't that highly regarded b/c there
are so many of them. Until about 6 or
7 yrs ago, the top job was IAS (Indian
Administrative Service - civil servants).
\_ Re: outsourcing, yes this is true. However,
many lawyers think that the grunt work
is where lots of good skills are
learned. You don't start at the top.
It's akin to outsourcing medical
residents, but not practicing doctors.
FWIW, lots of radiology is also being
outsourced so medicine is not 100% safe
either.
Re India job ranking - partially true.
Software engineers are at the top of
the totem pole, but regular engineers
aren't that highly regarded b/c there
are so many of them. Until about 6 or
7 yrs ago, the top job was IAS (Indian
Administrative Service - civil servants).
Being a doctor was an okay line of work
but it didn't really fetch you much more
money than anyone else.
medical or legal service?
\_ Re: outsourcing, yes this is true. However,
many lawyers think that the grunt work
is where lots of good skills are
learned. You don't start at the top.
It's akin to outsourcing medical
residents, but not practicing doctors.
FWIW, lots of radiology is also being
outsourced so medicine is not 100% safe
either.
\_ No, you are wrong regarding the valley, but you
have to work your way pretty far up the food chain
to realize that.
\_ I know lots of people who have been working
in the valley for 25+ yrs and I'm pretty
sure its true. Unless you move into mgmt
or something, there are no longer term
prospects.
\_ Trust me, you're wrong. The trick is not
"25+ years" but rather "pretty far up the
food chain". There are engineers with 25+
years of experience who are mostly worthless,
just as there are engineers whose worth never
expires.
\_ Maybe so, but what I noticed was that
high on the food chain positions mostly
went to politically connected people
rather than competent people (this is
at a big company - maybe startups and
vc firms are better).
at a big company though).
Anyway, making it high up the food
chain wasn't really an option for
me, so I chose something w/ more
stability and similar (or slightly
higher) pay.
\_ I can drop names if you wish. Are you
at Sun? The first generation of DE's
were mostly impressive, and many are
still technical. I am friends with
several (ehf, agn, and tvh--ehf is
officially a vp, tho he's still technical
and has no direct reports, i think; agn
got burned and is back at cmu again, i
hear; tvh is still retired, though his
role was technical and not managerial at
artx). I am less sure of the current
crop of Sun DE's. I was more thinking
of Gunning or Dobberpuhl when I answered
your original claim.
\_ I'm at Sun. I've met some current
\_ I'm Sun. I've met some current
DEs and I wasn't impressed - they
were mostly political appointees.
The major exception was Diffie,
but he's Diffie and I'm just random
coder.
My promotion from MTS to Staff
The promotion from MTS to Staff
Eng. also seemed to have a lot more
to do w/ politics than skill, which
was disheartening, esp. considering
I was responsible for a moderately
successful product that actually
makes money vs. the people who were
considering my promotion hadn't
shipped an actual product in 5+ yrs.
shipped a actual product in 5+ yrs.
I've also gone through the ARC
several times and the people were
pretty useless but they certainly
had job stability.
I also worked w/ some of the orig.
UNIX team at Bell Labs and saw
them get forced out b/c of bs
politics by complete tools.
\_ This is probably because
lots of the 1st generation
were academics. They have
given way (necessarily,
IMO) to businessmen who are
less special but possess a
different set of skills.
Maybe I'm just a little jaded.
I figure the legal thing is a
bit better b/c you can get a
decent practice going and just
stick to that.
\_ The first generation of DE's were
all pretty special, and even the
senior staffs from that era were
significantly smart. Since then,
I've been told DE's have beomce
yet another promotion and are now
much less special.
food chain".
\_ The people I know are at senior staff
eng. or principal eng. (or mgmt equiv
at director). I guess if you can make
DE or VP you can get some measure of
job security but I don't know too many
people who can get that far.
politics by complete fools.
\_ This is probably because
lots of the 1st generation
were academics. They have
given way (necessarily,
IMO) to businessmen who are
less special but possess a
different set of skills.
\_ The pay is marginally better. If you look at
salary averages there are a lot of lawyers not
making even $100K.
\_ Sure, but most lawyers aren't in technical
practice areas (patent, copyright). So few
lawyers can understand the science/technology
needed that the pay is much higher in those
areas.
\_ Well, this is like comparing the salary
of a surgeon to a pediatrician. Most
lawyers COULD NOT PRACTICE in a technical
area if they wanted to.
\_ The problem w/ engineering is that whatever your
skill set it eventually goes stale and some young
kid is going to be better at your job and mgmt can
get rid of you and pay him less to get the same
work.
The practice of law is different - and if you don't
like one area of practice or that area starts to
dry up you can always go work for a real estate
or insurance firm.
\_ No, you are wrong. But you have to work your way
pretty far up the food chain to realize that.
\_ sure, but I was responding to wages
in comparison to being a coder - the
income potential for a former coder
lawyer in a tech practice is quite
high.
\_ If the price naturally rises, it will allow substitutes which
were previously not feasible to enter the market. So allowing
the price to rise will potentially increase total supply.
\- it depends why there is a shortage. govt intervention !=
govt should provide/subsidize it. govt repsonses can include
things like changing ip regime. if you want a generic frame-
work to think about this, do mircoecon. if you want to talk
about a spcific case, you should mention what it is. in the
real world it's often unclear what constitutes a "shortage"
[is there a shortage of diamonds?] just like it is often
unclear if a firm has market (monopoly) power. also a "supply
shock" is not the same as a persistent shortage, say in the
case of water or power. the govt probably should not intervene
in the RARE MAGIC CARD mkt. and finally it depends on the
govt. a bad govt can clearly make things worse. see e.g.
AK Sen's work on famines.
\_ I agree there is a shortage of h07 42n ch1x in san jose.
\_ I agree there is a shortage of h07 42n ch1x in the bay area.
SOMETHING must be done!
\_ free h07 4zn ch1x for 1337 c0d3r5! w00t!
his money through sheer good luck lives in a mansion and has
a hot girlfriend?
case of water or power. |
| 2005/9/20-22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:39770 Activity:low |
9/20 dear motd travel agent,
My company is sending me to India for a few weeks in November. I will
be in Bangalore but I plan to take weekends and some extra time off
to do sightseeing. I've never been to India before and would love to
hear any advice. Specifically I'm wondering if it's realistic to
expect to be able to use the weekends to do sightseeing by taking
flights within the country to see specific areas or if that's too
crazy / wasteful.
\- if you ask on the wall, i may be able to give you some help. --psb
\_ Can't you just respond? There's a reason why motd works better
\- this is simpler to answer in a two way conversation.
otherwise you waste time on paths that may be subject
to early pruning.
\_ Hahahaha, "path" and "early pruning", this is so
CS talk and so funny in this context..
\_ I can tell you that India is a huge country, and that flying
between big cities isn't something that can easily be done in a
weekend without you tiring yourself out after one trip. Try
taking some extended time off (~5 days) to be able to spend
some time once you're in the new city. Otherwise, with the
hectic hell that is the airport in india, you will not want
to fly again. BTW, go with Jet Air if you fly.
\- india is a big country by rail but not by plane. when it
comes to travel, india offers a very pure choice between
time an money. in general i would recemmend try to do a
longer trip maybe at the end of your trip rather than try
to do weekend stuff. although a weekend trip to kerela might
be doable. but you have to pick whether you want to see
ancient monumuents, mountains, relax at a beach resort etc.
\_ Air travel is not exactly easy in India. Unless you are prepared
to deal with flight cancelation and getting stranded, I would
recommend that you stick to either bus tours or trains from
B'lore. A day/weekend trip that is pretty safe is to travel
to Mysore. It is about a 2 hr train ride and there are many
trains each day.
Mysore has some nice palaces and temples that you can visit.
There is also KRS dam w/ fountains and a garden that is nice.
Mysore is pretty laid back and should be safe for english only
tourists. If you have some extra cash, you might be able to
stay at the Laitha Mahal Palace for a couple of days.
I agree w/ psb that a weekend trip to Kerela might be doable,
but seeing as the train ride is nearly 1 day from B'lore it
will be cutting it close. You might be able to fly to Cochin
but that will be expensive and you should probably have a
backup plan b/c there are only like 1 or 2 flights from B'lore
to Cochin every day and the flights get canceled frequently.
\- i suspect locals can tell you a reliable way to get to
cochin etc. in my experience india guide books are often
out of date or giving non-optimal advice. there are a lot
of non-intuitive things about india travel that are
"common knowledge" among locals. for example if you want
to get from Kolkata to Varanasi, it is vastly superior to
take the Howrah - Mughal Sarai Junction train than to take
the direct train to Varanasi Cantonment. etc. more in mail.
\- according to my india rail guide the Kaveri Express
leaves B'lore around 7am gets to Mysore around 10ish
and leave Mysore around 6pm to return to B'lore by ~9,
so that may be a easy weekend, but locals can tell you if
it would be smarter to hire a car if you have 2-4 people
in your tour party. it is about 400mi to cochin and the
b'lore - kanyakumai express [sic] goes via ernakulam but
i am not sure if there is a better option. unless you
count the really big destinations in india, india travel
is often about the characters you meet on the journey
and the "character building" that happens rather where
you are going. i've always been surpised to hear people
liked kolkata because there isnt much to see there and
i am not sure what is interesting about the place if you
dont speak bengali. |
| 2005/7/26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:38828 Activity:moderate |
7/26 So rich Korean/Chinese/Taiwanese/Singapore single lonely dude all
mail orders pretty Vietnamese girls, what about Vietnamese
dude?? What the hell do they do? ;)
\_ Mail-order from Laos?
\_ Please don't lump Singapore with males chauvinist countries like
USA, China, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, etc. Singapore doesn't have a sex
ratio problem:
at birth: 1.08 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.07 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.95 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.79 male(s)/female
total population: 0.96 male(s)/female (2005 est.)
\_ Many boys die while growing up?
\_ that's the same everywhere. go check at:
http://www.indexmundi.com -> country -> people -> sex ratio
\_ Men have higher mortality for a bunch of reasons, military
service, more likely to be involved in violent crime, more
likely to take stupid risks for fun, etc etc.
\_ more likely to write on the motd |
| 2005/7/18-19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:38696 Activity:nil |
7/18 http://CNN.com breaking news: Retired Gen. William Westmoreland, who commanded American troops in Vietnam -- the nation's longest conflict and the only war America lost -- died tonight at age 91. The silver-haired officer contended the United States did not lose the conflict in Southeast Asia. "It's more accurate to say our country did not fulfill its commitment to South Vietnam," he said. |
| 2005/7/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:38408 Activity:nil |
7/4 STOP THE WAR IN VIETNAM!!! Stop destroying Vietnam villages!
Power to the Weathermen! |
| 2005/6/19-20 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:38191 Activity:nil |
6/19 The great management consultancy ripoff:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1509728,00.html
\_ Sensationalism, to a degree. My girlfriend works for one of these,
and their billing is far more straightforward--each project is
sold with x% fixed expenses on top. The problems with a lot of
management consultancy projects are far more subtle--things like
failing to draw the line at helping a customer's management fuck
up a company through short-sighted cost cutting, etc. -John
\_ Yeah, like moving jobs to India. I heard that some management
finally realize that it's not a great idea after all. |
| 2005/5/14-16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:37683 Activity:high |
5/14 This is just depressing stuff. Woman kicked like a soccer ball dies.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/15/MARIA.TMP
\_ Tragic, but you'll note that her family offered to buy her a home
in Chicago and she refused because of the weather. Yes,
homeless is so much better.
\_ The woman got stomped to death after living a life that would
break just about anyone. How about you just shut the hell up
and stop trying to score some meaningless points.
\_ I think you got trolled.
\_ She has mental problems. Give her a break.
\_ Trolling is also trying to score meaningless points.
\_ She had mental problems. Give her a break. Besides, there is
this line in the article: "Calls home became less frequent, and
more desperate for money." I doubt if her family was really so
generous as to buy her a home. Otherwise she wouldn't need to
sound desperate for money. Maybe her family only offered a small
downpayment and she was supposed to handle the mortgage. Some
people like to exaggerate their goodness when there's no one to
counter them.
\_ You might be correct, but people are often reluctant to
give money without strings to crazy/drug addicted people.
This is not unreasonable.
\_ well, in my country, they say that America is a great country
with lots of opportunities IFF you're young and fit, because
if you're not, there's no one (government) to take care of you.
In this case, she got a physically debilitated and things seemed
In this case, she got physically debilitated and things started
to go downhill. In my country, this would never happen. But
then again, my country isn't as big and powerful as America.
\_ What's your country? I was very surprised to see how many
homeless and despondent people I saw on the streets of
"functioning" places like Vancouver, London, Tokyo and
Frankfurt. Even Sweden & Denmark have the pooor, broken
bastards that just fall through the cracks. -John
\_ Simple response - Move back. Seriously.
\_ I will gladly get out of your facsist imperialistic country
and move back when I've made enough money for retirement.
I'll reap social benefits of my country while enjoying
wealth that I earned when I was young and healthy. You
on the other hand are stuck with broken infrastructures
and national deficits. Anyways, this is what I love about
America. I get free education (scholarships), I make lots
of money with only 30% tax, and I get to take everything
from America back home. America IS a great country.
\_ I was going to say "Yeah, but how much tax do you pay in your
country?" But then I just remember that we pay lots of tax
here too.
\_ US is 15% for the poor, 40% for the richest. I am
personally paying 30%, and I wouldn't mind paying 50% if
1) my government would stop squandering money on pointless
war, propaganda, and Corporationally aligned agendas and
2) my government starts improving things INSIDE the U.S.,
like better (more organized) mass transit, better road
systems, better education, and infrastructures in general.
I personally prefer a country run by Denmark/Switzerland
like government with lots of accountability and a sense of
duty and ethics than see it run over by private
corporations like it is now. This whole talk on
privatization on every little thing is sickening me.
\_ I think the word you're looking for is
"accountability." Be wary of using places like .dk and
.ch as examples--they have a lot of problems too, they
just don't show up as much because they're generally
on a smaller scale. -John
\_ Tell us about their problems. Percentage-wise, is it
worst than U.S.? Do they also privatize social
security, electricity, water, and other things?
Is the quality of education level more "flattened"
thoughout the country, or is it very aymmetrical
like the U.S.? -Curious liberal red-neck
\_ I dunno about Denmark, althoug they have a m4d
immigration backlash. .ch privatizes most
utilities to heavily regulated companies. The
problems are way different (mainly to do with
immigration/integration and heavy-handed
bureaucracy stifling business and innovation.)
You can't draw comparisons between ethnically and
culturally homogenous countries of < 20 million
and the US. -John |
| 2005/4/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:37109 Activity:kinda low |
4/7 Just curious, when US sells lots of F-16s to India and Pakistan,
how much profit is going back to the the people (which may or
may not help in covering the deficit)? And how much of it goes
to companies that make these weapons?
\_ What do you mean by "back to the people"? I guess it goes to
Lockheed Martin stockholders.
\_ Don't forget that, at least in Pakistan's case, we probably
lent them the cash in the first place. -John
\_ and in the case of Israel and Egypt, we gave them the
money. Perhaps giving money directly to corporations
ain't so bad, at least it cuts out the middle man.
\_ Cuts out arming the unstable foreign ally of the
moment?
\_ Actually, Pakistan already paid for the F-16s. The trade was
put on hold due to problems with Kashmir. |
| 2005/3/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:36912 Activity:moderate |
3/27 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4387055.stm http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=67229 http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050328/world.htm http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/mar/26pak1.htm U.S. to sell fighter jets to both Pakistan and India. How much revenue will this generate and reduce the deficit? If it is a good business model, maybe we should export more... \_ US is smart. Sell some F16s to Paki to annoy India, then tell them, why are you so pissed off? we can sell you some too. \_ not just that, but sell them 2nd string fighter tech. \_ We sold semi-modern fighers to the Shah of Iran, but when he was overthrown we stopped providing any replacement parts and maintanance help. \_ I remember watching some cable tv show that also said some of the importanat electronic parts "mysteriously disappeared" from the fighters when the techs left the country. \_ An F16 will be sold at $50-60mil tops. Do the math. India has announced a tender to purchase a large quantity of light fighter jets to replace their pre-historic Mig-21s. So far, the makers of F16, Grippen, Mig-29, and Mirage F2000 have submitted proposals. |
| 2005/2/13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:36161 Activity:nil |
2/13 Why is our generation so fucking lazy? What happened to this country?
\_ The Internet
\_ Why do things yourselves when you can exploit cheap labor in India? |
| 2005/1/31 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35992 Activity:very high |
1/31 Can anyone recommend a good book on the Vietnam war? I'm realizing
I don't actually know much about it.
\_ "On Strategy", by Harry G. Summers Jr. for a purely military
analysis of why we "lost". -John
\_ "In Retrospect : The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam"
by the architect of it all, former Ford exec, Cal grad,w/zero combat
exp. , and so-called "Whiz Kid" Robert Strange (REAL MN)McNamara
\_ <deleted> - chicom troll pretender
\_ deleted by real chicom troll
\_ WTF? -the REAL chicom troll
\_ Will the real chicom troll please stand up....
\_ You are ALL lying! -ilyas
\_ [ sign my name for me at your peril, bitch. -- ilyas ]
\_ Or what? You're going to nuke the motd....*again*?
\_ Well I can learn John's baseball bat method, if
you prefer. -- ilyas
\_ Smith and Wesson beats baseball bat more often
than not.
\_ I have a 1945 issue Remington-Rand M1911
too. -John
\_ Yeah, and I've got a baseball bat also.
So what?
\_ 1942 issue Remington-Rand M1911 beats
baseball bat more often than not.
\_ No, goddamnit, no! No recursion
is allowed! Eat my exit-condition,
beyotch!
\_ I d never buy Smith and Wesson, those
wusses bowed down to the anti-gun lobby
pressure.
P.S. My fans are starting to scare me.
-- ilyas
\_ Uhm, I don't think Smith and Wesson
makes baseball bats, so that might be
moot.
\_ Speaking of baseball bats and BULLDOZERS,
is browning any good when it comes to
pistols? Hipower?
\_ Don't make my hero bust out with the
BULLDOZER!!! Yeah, that's right. You're
all quiet now. -- ilyas #1 fan
\_ RPG beats BULLDOZER!!! more often than
not.
\_ Assault rifle beats RPG.
http://www.christophor.com/vids/iraqi.mpeg
\_ OMGLOL
\_ Simple, the US got more than what it bargained for. Got
its ass kicked by the PRC army in Vietnam. Nixon had to
\_ PRC army in Vietnam? -John
\_ Yes, one of my uncle actually fought in Vietnam.
It wasn't like the Korean war where the PRC dumped
millions of soldiers in it, but it's also more than
just weapon supplies. -someone from mainland
\_ are you sure your uncle wasn't fighting in
the sino-vietnamese war which happened after
the americans got kicked out of vietnam?
\_ Oh, come on. Read a fucking history book.
Yes, there were PRC soldiers fighting
Americans in Vietnam.
\_ Maybe a couple, but considering that the PRVN
was primarily Soviet-aligned, and the USSR and
ChiComs weren't getting along to well (not to
mention long-festering border incidents which
ended up as a full-on war in the late 1970s)
the whole thing about "PRC KICK YANKEE GI OUT
VIETNAM!" is pretty silly, especially given
that the US didn't lose a single decently
sized conventional engagement. -John
abandon Taiwan and go to China to establish diplomatic
relationship with the PRC precisely because of the
Vietnam War, because they come to realize during later
stages of the war that one of their main base has been
completely surrounded by the PRC army, despite their day
and night of non stop bombing in the surrounding area
(which you can find references to in the history channel
but they stop short of telling you what happens
afterwards), they've come to realize they cannot prevent
the inevitable and will be overrun. The loss of life
will be unacceptable to the US public. So Nixon sends
you know who secretly to the PRC to negotiate. In the
end the PRC withdraw its forces and the US pulled out,
leaving everything behind including their beloved K9
dogs. To those who think the US pulled out because of
public pressure, its all bullshit, but surely sounds
better than telling the public, look, if we sacrifice
Taiwan, we will have XXX less body bags to bring home.
\_ Your history is hilarious. You should write a book. -John
\_ you got your history all backwards and confused.
we chicom didn't fight in vietnam. if we did, you
wouldn't have lasted that long. it's only our little
sister the vietcong fighting there. stop imagining
things. - real chicom troll
\_ e.g. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/vietnam.htm
In short: both trollers and John are wrong. China did
send a sizable number of soldiers (>~ one army division)
and though it wasn't convered extensively by the media, it
was never even a secret. It didn't kicked US ass nor was
it ever intended to. It's role is somewhat similar to US'
role in SK today: to convincine US not to attack with
ground force as it did in Korea. Also worth noting: US
built SV into the world's 4th largest AF and army, and 5th
largest navy. It is rather moot to say you never lost a
single conventional engagement. That Austrian dude had the
world finest killing machines and still lost in the end.
\_ Thank you, good reading.
\_ Watch "Fog of War" on DVD. It's a very interesting one-on-one
interview with the guy who was SecDef at the time.
\- you might want to specify what you are looking for ... there
are books by military people, journalists, photographers,
political scientists/historians, intelligence people, and
famous fictional works like The Ugly American or The Quiet
American. --psb
\_ Is _The Quiet American_ as good as _The Ugly American_ ?
\_ The book is nice, the movie's pretty but sort of
Graham Green Lite.
\_ We Were Soldiers Once...And Young |
| 2005/1/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35760 Activity:moderate |
1/17 Each day the war goes on the hatred increases in the hearts of the
Vietnamese and in the hearts of those of humanitarian instinct.
The Americans are forcing even their friends into becoming their
enemies. It is curious that the Americans, who calculate so
carefully on the possibilities of military victory, do not
realize that in the process they are incurring deep psychological
and political defeat. The image of America will never again be the
image of revolution, freedom, and democracy, but the image of
violence and militarism. -MLK
\_When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village
and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able
to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and
white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will
be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro
spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty,
we are free at last!"
And yes, they are free at last.
\_ No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it
by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. -GPJ
\_ MLK was a marxist.. you didn't know this? I wonder if he ever
talked to any of the Cambodians or Viet boat people?
\_ Cambodians? Luckily the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia and
unseated the US and China supported Khmer Rouge from
power. Otherwise, the killing fields would be even
power. Otherwise, the killing fields would've been even
worse.
\_ Yeah, luckily Cambodia was invaded by a rival communist
power to stop an oppressive government... Hmmm, doesn't
this somehow sound vaguely familiar?
\_ doesn't sound familiar at all. do elaborate.
\_ MLK was on FBI's top 10 most wanted list as well. From
US government's track record (black panther), i am still
wondering who killed MLK.
\_ MLK was on FBI's top 10 most wanted list as well. From
US government's track record (black panther), i am still
wondering who killed MLK. |
| 2004/12/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35481 Activity:nil |
12/29 What was the time lag between when things started getting fucked up
in Indonesia vs. Sri Lanka / India? I would think news should
travel pretty damn fast after 40K+ died in Indonesia. I don't think
this aspect has been covered at all (for some reason news only seems
to be covering lack of ocean sensors - but you don't need ocean
sensors to warn Sri Lanka / India once you've established thousands
dying in Indonesia).
\_ I agree news should have spread, but no one thought it was 40+
thousand dead until days after.
\_ You don't need 40K+ dying to tell the other countries.
All you need are tsunamis hitting the shore and it being covered
on TV as a news bulletin in Indonesia as well as other countries.
\_ Umm... spread how? If they didn't get the warning from the US
through their governments, how would they get it from the
people who were actually being hit by the tsunami? Collective
consciousness?
\_ Warnings about potential tsunamis since none have hit yet
!= Warnings about tsunamis that have already hit Indonesia
that could also hit other countries
Let's say there is a 2 hour lag time between tsunamis hitting
Indonesia vs. Sri Lanka / India. This assumes 500 mph waves.
Personally, I think it should take 30 minutes for this to hit
radio + TV + Internet in Sri Lanka / India, 30 minutes more
for people to run out to the coasts and say get the fuck away,
with 1 hour of buffer time.
I think lots of senior people fucked up and sat on the news
for two or more hours.
\_ I think you seriously underestimate what it means when a
very poor nation/area lacks infrastructure to deal with
this sort of crisis, both in terms of transmitting
information (esp after what little infrastructure just got
swept away by a tsunami) and in terms of receiving,
processing, disseminating, and then finally reacting. This
is exacerbated when this lack of ability to react is coupled
with complacency and unpreparedness. If the US had only 2
hours of warning before a large tsunami hit the eastern
seaboard, the loss of life would be staggering.
\_ Well, the least I want to suggest is that politicians
and other people in charge are blaming a lack of ocean
sensors, vs. assuming responsibility for not spreading
the news to local media. How much does it take to say:
"Hey, play this on TV. Tidal waves are hitting Indonesia.
It might hit us." I think you overestimate the difficulty
of this. You and a lot of people, too, which is why it is
not being covered.
\_ No, I don't overestimate the difficulty of making a
broadcast of this sort. No need to be snippy.
\_ If you think I'm being snippy, perhaps you shouldn't
use the same phrasing.
\_ You must be the "why don't they just tread water for a
little while" guy, huh?
\_ Didn't this happen at 6/7 am local time? How many people
in those impoverished, remote villages would be
watching TV at that time? How many actually have
electricity?
\_ Then why don't I see news reports talking about
what you're talking about? All I see are "no ocean
sensors", not "no TVs / radios, everyone was asleep
anyway". |
| 2004/11/22-23 [Reference/Military, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:35025 Activity:low |
11/22 The Hmong People in the U.S.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/Hmong_tragedy.html
\_ Hmong people Among people.
\_ So, um, I'm curious. Does the rice man wear glasses? Did he
wear glasses when he threw the ilyas-like tantrum?
\_ He ruined hunting for everybody!
\_ He has ruined the reputation of the Hmong people
for generations to come.
\_ Maybe he just descided to hunt the most dangerous game...
\_ I guess McVeigh was the U.S. people in teh U.S. |
| 2004/11/19-20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:34986 Activity:very high |
11/19 How I Began to Teach About the Vietnam War
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1284084/posts
\_ I love free republic guy. Do you have a family?
would you like to come over for Thanksgiving? - danh
\_ what do you think of the article?
\_ It is well-written, balanced, historically accurate, and
insightful. It does not do the author justice to have
his article reproduced among the steaming ill-informed
monkey-shitpile that is http://freerepublic.com -John
\_ So what kind of monkey-shitpile is soda wall, John?
\_ article was fine. I do not agree that the US had
any clear way of "winning". losing over 1/10 of their
population to US explosives didn't phase the Vietnamese
at all while they were defending their home turf. - danh
\_ No, no, no! You are wrong. The Nixon bombings were
effective and broke the stalemate at the Paris
Peace talks. If Watergate had not happened we may
still have had an effective cease fire. In addition,
the Tet offense was a disaster for the North, and they
didn't try an invasion like that again for many years.
It's a common myth that the VC were invincible. They
were not. We were constantly beating them, it's just
that we should've invaded the north. We couldn't because
of China. The U.S. didn't lose Vietnam, they abandoned it.
\_ The article was fundamentally flawed, in that it glossed
over the fact that the United States *did* support
illegitimate and unpopular regimes after the overthrow
of Diem.
\_ All of you are missing his fundumental thesis. ie "It
was a good idea, but we &*%)ed it up." All of you saying
"Yeah, but we did this wrong" should be agreeing with
him. Also, by extension, we shouldn't not help anyone
else just because we boned it up once.
\_ It was a bad idea, AND we $*%)ed it up.
See post below for why.
\_ I assume you mean the domino theory one? True, the
domino theory turned out to be incorrect, but I
don't think that made Vietnam a bad idea. Korea
didn't turn out perfect either, but I'm dang glad
we protected SK.
\_ Bad idea, good idea. Let's call it a mistake.
Also, Vietnam != Korea.
U.S. participation in Korea, Gulf War 1, WW2
were not mistakes.
\_ No, his fundamental thesis was that he had been
taught three incorrect things by the anti-war
movement: 1) that the gov't of SV was illegitimate,
2) that we had no legitimate reason for being in
Vietnam and 3) that we couldn't have won anyway.
"These are that there was never a legitimate
non-communist government in Saigon, that the
U.S. had no legitimate reason to be involved in
Vietnamese affairs, and that the U.S. could
not have won the war under any circumstances."
The article is bad because 1 and 3 are correct, imo,
and no serious person held #2. I am sure you can
find a few Communists and the like who believed
#2, but most Americans, even anti-war Americans,
believed that the US had a commitment to fight
Communism. They just didn't think Vietnam was
the right place to do it and they didn't like
the way we fought it. The whole line of argument
of his that Dinh was legitimate is a red herring,
since most of our support came after he was
deposed and we supported the coup that deposed
since most of our support for the wary came after he
was deposed and we supported the coup that deposed
him to boot!
\_ Ever hear of SEATO? Yea but you are right
NATO was a stupid idea too.
\_ The three "axioms" he mentioned I don't think are that important.
The key issue is the dominoes did not fall after we lost the
Vietnam War and expended significant national resources in doing so.
\_ Wrong, one significant domino did fall. Ever heard of Cambodia?
\_ American ideals and beliefs are one thing, but how many times
have US allowed its selfish self-interest to take precedence over
these. People around the world like democracy, freedom, rule of
law, etc., but they don't like US trying to bully other countries
for its selfish goals and interests. Just because US, as a
country, is one of the better representatives of these ideas, does
not mean its use of power abroad is just or in support of these
ideals. To assume so is the biggest hole in the argument the
author put forth.
\_ Apparently you need to get yourself a copy of "Weatlh of Nations"
and read it from cover to cover. It's amazing what a little
education can do for even the weakest of minds... But I doubt
you will so here's the capsule. A) All countries are after
their own self interest, that's just how it works. B) Having
a country like America look after its own self interest in the
world is not merely justified, it's necessary for not only
the continuation of America but life as we know it. C) If
it wasn't America it would be China or Russia. I know a
LOT of people who are MUCH happier with America at the reigns
rather than China or Russia. D) If people REALLY dislike
America so much why is everyone always trying to get in, yet
hardly anyone ever leaves? And if you think that American policy
is bad, just take a look at how other colonial powers treated
their subordinates. The Americans, by contrast, have been
exceedingly gracious. Yes, we are the Romans of our era, and
being as such we will need to recognize that we are indeed an
august nation and have certain responsibilities that others
do not have.
\_ "We are better than China and Russia. Hence you should
support us in all that we do!" What a stupid logic.
\_ America is not perfect, but it sure beats any and
all alternatives thus far conceived by mankind. |
| 2004/11/18 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:34970 Activity:insanely high |
11/18 The Vietnam War Crimes You Never Heard Of:
http://www.vietnamwar.com/MyLai.htm (The Charlie Company)
http://hnn.us/articles/1802.html
http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/Research/HNatureProposalsArticles/RapeWarfare.html
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0438/turse.php
\_ I can only assume you mean "I'm so out of touch, I've never
heard of all these Vietnam War crimes." Since I'm pretty sure
the rest of the civilized world has heard of them before. Pver
and over, in fact. |
| 2004/11/10 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:34817 Activity:nil |
11/10 When Vietnam vets came home (Soldiers being spit on is
just an urban myth)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1276799/posts |
| 2004/11/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:34663 Activity:kinda low |
11/4 Why aren't we more worried about Vladimir Putin? He's essentially
made himself a dictator, Russia has the economy and the stability
of a 3rd world country, and he controls 10,000 ICBMs, most of which
are armed with MIRVs. This scares me. Someone convince me that
I shouldn't be scared.
\_ Why would he attack us? No motive, no crime.
\_ The instability and economic wretchedness, combined with
authoritarianism and tons of nuclear weapons, doesn't seem
dangerous to you? Do you find Pakistan warm and cuddly too?
\_ I never said I found Russia "warm and cuddly," but if you
can't see a difference between Russia and Pakistan, you
need to get out of CA for a bit.
\_ I think many people are worried about him... its just that the
powers that be have their hands tied in terms of criticism
since he is using the same theatrics to justify his power grab
that they are.
\_ About Russian economy. I have lived there as well as in a real
third-world country and I can tell you that people in Russia are far
far better off than in a third world conutry, even the pension age
people who depend on govt pensions. Their current per-capita GDP is
about $9000/year in real terms. While this might not sound much,
remember that most Russians own their housing. But you're right
to be worried about Putin. I am worried about his authoritarian
tendencies too, though I can sort of understand why he is so popular
even right now. Russia has tried to liberalized its economy
and politics too fast and chaos ensued in the early 90s, probably
thanks to the incompetent policy of this drunkard Yeltsin and
his cronies who were running the country behind his back. So when
the Russians were choosing between Putin and the liberal democrats
the last time, for them, it was like choosing between an
authoritarian Putin who credibly promisses to return stability
and the greatness to Russia or Yeltsin era chaos. They picked
the former and he's obviously taking advantage of their goowill..
\_ http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/11/01/011.html
It's only an excerpt, but if this doesn't get your bloodpressure
up, I don't know what will. |
| 2004/9/16-17 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:33562 Activity:very high |
9/16 http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/vol48no1/article06.html From cryptogram, ex-CIA on interrogation \_ Cool article, thanks for sharing. -John \_ Excellent, well written, makes some very good points. Thank you. \_ Jeez, I'm beaming like I wrote it myself. -op \_ good article. I think this article, as well as the September 1st school incident in Russia brought a bigger issue: What is a "terrorist?" Terrorist are defined by the tactic they use, not ideology they believe in. While this is relatively clear to most people in case of Vietnamese nationalist and Chechen rebel, I don't think USA has learn that our "terrorist enemy" are the result of our past 40 years of foreign policy in the middle east, from religious support of creation of Israel at the expense of Palestine, to overthrown of popular government in Iran. Without drastic change in our foreign policy, we will not able to end the reluntless attack from Islamic extremist. kngharv \_ Terrorists will attack us regardless of our foreign policy. They don't like the US for what it is -- a free and prosperous place not following Sharia law. If you want to make an argument for a change in US foreign policy, using islamic terrorists is not a good way to go. -- ilyas \_ You're saying they hate us because they hate our freedom? Utter nonsense. Our freedom and prosperity might get some two-bit mullah worked up, maybe he'll convince some young, impressionable losers to do a minor attack; but convincing a man to orphan his children, a normal young guy to give up his chance with that pretty girl at the market takes a lot more than "this old book says that freedom is bad". Even the WTC bombers were normal men once. You can't just call them crazy without wondering what got them there. \_ ob40Virgins \_ there was an interesting Kristof column recently which said that some modern scholars think this is a mis- translation, and that they really get white grapes, not virgins. \_ http://www.angelfire.com/folk/patriotscorner/72Virginians.html \_ They hate the products of our freedom. They are envious of our obvious prosperity, they are made insecure by the inroads our "culture" makes into theirs (viz. blue jeans and rock & roll helping bring down the Soviet Union), they (in the case of the islamists) have issues with our lack of restrictions on women, music, clothing, whatever, and to some degree they feel left behind by economic development. Consider that the "Arab world" has never undergone a sweeping renaissance or an enlightenment or an industrial revolution, combined with the fact that many countries spawning "terror" have a tremendous percentage of unemployed youth, susceptible to demagoguery. So yes, they hate our freedom. -John \_ If it wasn't for GWB, they would love our blue jeans and music and McDonald's and our freedom for women! GWB has ruined American credibility around the world for generations! \_ Well, they don't say 'freedom is bad.' To them following Sharia is freedom, while our kind of freedom is demonic depravity and corruption. We call this 'extremism,' but this was a normal train of thought a couple of hundred years ago in Europe. They are not exactly crazy in a sense of being mentally ill, they are just experiencing an 'outside context problem' (Ian Banks term), and are living in a world we can't understand very well. I am not excusing what they do -- they are of course wrong, and are doing evil. -- ilyas \_ (Responding to John and ilyas) Who are "they"? If "blue jeans and rock & roll" brought down the Soviet Union, why don't we send these instead of an invasion force? And if it's Islamic fundamentalism we are fighting, why did we invade Iraq, one of the more secular middle eastern states. And why are we sending billions of dollars to some of the most fundamentalist countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait? Perhaps nationalism and belief in self determination have more to do with the resistance we faced in Vietnam and are facing in Iraq than you would like to believe? Did the Vietnamese conduct any terrorist act on us after kicking us out? \_ Because Soviet Union wasn't stuck in a feudal mentality. You can't expect 'blue jeans' to work if it's unclear to someone that jeans are a good thing. A typical russian wasn't fooled by the propaganda. -- ilyas propaganda. As for the Vietnamese, they have no fundamental ideological problem with the West, whereas the muslims do. -- ilyas \_ Nice try to transition to Vietnam=Iraq but no dice. Please provide a URL for us *sending billions of dollars* to Suadi Arabia and Kuwait. We won militarily in Vietnam, despite being the most stupidly fought war in history. We lost Vietnam at home with people like Jane Fonda and John Kerry telling the American soldiers and people lies about our troops and the war. If self determination is the cause of resistence in Iraq then why are there foreign fighters there? Why didn't these self- determined people do anything at all for themselves during Hussein's reign of death? \_ Lies? Are you denying that soldiers didn't kill civilians and didn't commit atrocities? \_ They tried after the '91 war after Bush I promised support but then basically helped Saddam crush the insurgents. Have you ever led a military revolt? I'm sure if they had you around Saddam would have been toast. Moron. \_ The Vietnamese had been fighting against foreign colonizers for over 100 years, 400 if you count periodic Chinese incursions. We would never have "won" Vietnam, though we could still have troops fighting and dying there, if we really had the will. It might even be down to 1000/yr by now. Why would we possibly want to do that??? \_ ob40Virgins \_ there was an interesting Kristof column recently which said that some modern scholars think this is a mis- translation, and that they really get white grapes, not virgins. \_ http://www.angelfire.com/folk/patriotscorner/72Virginians.html \_ Terrorists kill civilians (on purpose). \_ But I thought that's why we went to iraq. So they could kill our soldiers instead of our civilians... \_ Yeah, Iraq is a big honeypot. People complain about the dead soldiers but if we hadn't gone there we'd have HUNDREDS of thousands of civilian deaths! If the stream of terrorists starts to trickle out, we should bomb some villages in Syria and other likely places to flush out more terrorists, like fleas from beating a rug. Eventually the terrorists will run out and we can go home! \_ You forgot to capitalize "thousands" Please tell me you're continuing the sarcasm and don't actually believe this... \_ So the Commander of The Allied bombing campaign in Europe during WWII was a terrorist? Dresden was known to be full of civilians. of civilians and had no legitimate military value. The firebombing was undertaken to break the "will" of the Germans to fight. Is that terrorism in your book? \_ If you kill civilians on purpose as a military leader and with a strategic purpose in mind, people start saying you are a war criminal. But it sticks less if you're on the winning side and the winning side is a democracy. Terrorists do it from a position of little power. War criminals do it from a position of great power. It's similar to "why is it racist when white people make fun of black people, but not so in reverse?" \_ Terrorism performed by national militaries isn't called terrorism. It is terrorism in fact though, and so was Hiroshima. There's no getting around it. (the key is deliberate vs. accidental civilian killing). \_ The U.S. dropped a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima, killing 80,000 civilians outright, to end the war early. This is a war crime under the current accepted definition. Because it ended the war early, and may have saved hundreds of thousands of American lives, and because Japan had attacked first -- many would argue it wasn't a war crime, or at least the definition should be refined so it excludes the 80,000 dead innocents in Hiroshima being a war crime. \_ Victor writes the history. Duh! |
| 2004/9/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:33432 Activity:high |
9/9 Why is Pakistan so nice to the US? What are we giving them? Funding?
Weapons? Intelligence?
\_ they tried to kill the general
\_ only after he said he was the Dubya's best friend
\_ the promise of destruction
\_ money. without our money, their economy would collapse
\_ I thought the deal was money for "counter-terror" which goes to
buying toys for their army.
\_ the only way to travel that remote countryside is with
a thousand troops
\_ Don't squish other people's posts!
\_ The only way to post on the motd is with a thousand
troops.
\_ Because they are a bunch of cowards and doesn't have true
democracy. Isn't it great that what we do are only supported
by our puppet government or countries that doesn't have true
democracy?
\_ Money and legitamacy.
\_ El Presidente de Pakistan sided with the U.S. post-9/11. The threat
then was you were with us or against us. He did the right thing.
That was when the U.S. had credibility.
That was when the U.S. had credibility and also wasn't overextended.
\_ You never hear about the white house complaining that Pakistan
needs to be more democratic and that it was run by a dictator.
So the US supports dictator, as long as they are with you.
\_ We could have just told Stalin to go fuck himself during WW2.
\_ Geopolitics. They need allies vs. India. |
| 2004/8/19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Domestic/911] UID:33028 Activity:nil |
8/19 Pakistan does it right: Torture is all these killers deserve!
http://csua.org/u/8o6 |
| 2004/8/18 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:32982 Activity:very high |
8/17 Its nearly quarter to 11:00 and no Obsessive SwiftBoat Lunatic yet.
Where are you OSL?!
\_ He's on a conference call getting the new talking points for this
week.
\_ For your viewing pleasure, the cspan footage of the debate between
John Kerry and John O'Neill on the Dick Cavett show in 1971:
rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04_rwh081504.rm
\_ Thank you OSL!
\_ Don't know if I'm actually OSL, but I'd hate to disappoint.
\_ When we pulled out of Vietnam, the dominoes never fell, which
was our original reason for going there.
\_ That could also mean that Vietnam was a success.
\_ Are you any different if you're doing as much deleting as he is
posting? Can we call you Obsessive SwiftBoat Censor Lunatic?
\_ I'm not censoring anything... If people would stop censoring
that idiot, maybe he would give up the ghost - I get the feeling
he's one of those folks that thrives on any sort of attention,
negative or positive.
\_ The incorrect assumption that it's only one person could lead
you to a false conclusion like this. |
| 2004/8/2-3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:32643 Activity:insanely high |
8/2 Very interesting article. It is now clear that we deliberately
went to Vietnam by provoking the North Vietnamese:
http://tinyurl.com/4t7kk (NPR)
Listen to the full analysis.
This is a far cry from the "Communist aggression" we've portraited
for generations.
\_ Old news, nothing new to see here. If you were actually alive
during the 'Nam war you would've realized this. Time you went
back to 20th Century American History 101.
\_ Just like we provoked them in '75, when they
subsequently slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Cambodians
and millions deserted on rafts. You're a complete fool;
a perfect Kerry voter.
\_ Uhm, the Khmer Rouge/Vietnam war was at best a muddled affair.
Don't know which was worse, Pol Pot killing 2 million or
the Vietnamese coming in and slaughtering the Pol Pot regime.
It's just a nasty business either way and just underscores
how bad communism really was.
\_ Pol Pot was a byproduct of France and the Communist
Vietnamese and Chinese
a perfect Kerry voter.
\_ Here's another newsflash, LBJ was a DEMOCRAT! Oh my golly!
\_ We thought it was Communism spread by the Soviet Union, but
actually it was just a nationalist movement, which we would have
not had a problem with. Oops!
\_ We would not have had a problem with, except that we were
there in the first place backing up the French, who felt
they needed to reassert their roles as colonialists after
WWII. If he had listened to Ho Chi Min and told France to
stuff it's colonialism where the sun doesn't shine earlier,
we could have saved everyone a lot of trouble.
\_ Given that France has a tradition of anti-Americanism, why
on earth did we try to save its ass in indochine?
\_ Anti-Americanism?! The country that gave us the Statue
of Liberty and helped us defeat the British?
\_ Wrong France. Try again. Read a history book.
\_ Which part are you disputing, idiot?
\_ Read a history book, you ignorant slut. I
dispute your historical comments. All of them.
Know wtf you're talking about before calling
someone an idiot. Go check the dates for the
French Revolution. Idiot, indeed.
\_ You dispute that France gave the Statue of
Liberty to the US? Which country was
France imitating with the revolution? Moron.
\_ We wanted them to join NATO.
\_ Live and learn. Frenchies get pretty friendly when
they're getting their butt's kicked by Germans.
\_ Actually 2/3 of Vietnam voted, yes voted, in an
election to remain aligned with France. This was an
unsatisfactory result for Ho Chi Min hence the civil
war. What he could not obtain by election was taken
by force.
\_ That's a new one to me. Link?
\_ It was not 'nationalist' movement. Ho Chi Min and the
other cadre were laways tried and true Communists, even
during WWII. The common foot soldier may have thought
he was fighting for freedom, but as soon as the war
was over he found out otherwise (as is always the case
with these Communist insurrections). Of course anyone
who then caused trouble was summarily shot.
\_ "Want to do what I say, and you're free to do what you
want."
\_ While they were communists, my contention is that it was
nationalism that is what actually mattered. They were not
toadies of the Soviet Union. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:31116 Activity:very high |
7/1 If democracy is so great, why are sodans still piss poor? Where the
MAJORITY does not get represented, but rather the few elite
and rich gets to control pretty much everything and the others
are treated as 2nd, 3rd, 4th class citizen? Explain that to
me. Most of the old officers you see on soda are from the
higher class, so they are very different from your average
user. What they need is a visionary leader that would
abandon their class system, but under 'democracy', they never
will. Some users will always be low class citizen, like
slaves.
\_ You're right, democracy is a big sham. The People must rule,
although since we're too stupid our Great Leader will rule for us,
in his magnificent benevolence! All hail the Great People's Leader!
All dissidents are evil imperialist lackeys, and must be reported to
your local People's Information Bureau at once!
\_ America's a republic, not a pure democracy. Majority rule is not
always a good thing.
\_ I know nothing about India, but I will point out that no one
ever claimed democracy was perfect, it's just the best thing
we've come up with so far. Of course the perfect government
would be a single person who always makes the right descisions.
If you can find any such person, I will be happy to live under
them.
\_ see. Kingdom of God where God is King
\_ We don't have the tech for a perfect society yet, even with
perfect decisions. Right now rough edges are unavoidable, maybe
this will change in a few hundred years. -- ilyas
\_ Yeah, we'll write a computer program to rule us all. Like in
the game Deus Ex.
\_ That's not the problem. The problem is scarcity and
insufficient understanding of genetics and aging. Those
problems will eventually go away, and that is what will
transform society, I think. -- ilyas
\_ There's always scarcity of land, even if you somehow
get free energy. This is worse if genetics and aging are
solved. The western oil-economies are comparitively
pretty rich today... I wonder what transformation you
expect to see?
\_ I heard a projection that the world's population will
stabilize at 11 bil. Most advanced countries today
are either breaking even or their population is
declining (with the notable exception of the US, due
to immigration and other 'exceptionalist' issues).
We are not going to run out of land, that's 19th
century Malthusian thought. The 'transformation'
I am talking about will have to do with the
elimination of most current political issues once
certain kinds of economic scarcities go away. Our
society is already very different because information
can be copied at virtually no cost in time or
money. -- ilyas
\_ Well, I don't think birthrates can easily be
predicted, and some land is likely to always be
more desirable than others. Western families
have to work to maintain their lifestyle and don't
have much time.
\_ You jest, but I think Ilya would actually suggest something
along those lines - although I think his term was
"benign dictator."
\_ But we already have the Illuminati!
\_ You don't seem to know much about India or Indian politics.
Most of the people in power today are members of the lowest
castes. Due to "enlightened" social policy (quota, &c.) most
high paying powerful government jobs are available only to
members of the lowest castes. These people, having little
or no social conscience, do little to help their fellow man,
prefering instead to shuttle public resources into their
own private domains.
own private domains. Its not that democracy doesn't work,
it is that it does. India is full of low caste uneducated
people and these are the same people who are ruling the
nation.
FYI, the elite of Indian society, the brahmins (about 1-2% of
the population), were usually among the poorest of all (for
various religious reasons). The idea that somehow they
systematically oppressed and continue to oppress the
lower classes/castes is ridiculous. In fact, most brahmins
leave India because they find that the social setup makes
it next to impossible for them to succeed.
The only way in which I find that one may blame brahmins
for the woes of India, is this: Nehru was a brahmin. He
was stupid enough to implement a command economy instead
of a open and free market. This ruined India for decades.
Thus if one man represents his caste, it is possible to
say that the brahmins ruined India.
\-mr. anon above: just out of curiosity can you
tell me where you "learned" all of this?
it is so far off, it's not worth correcting
but i am curious where it came from. --psb
\_ My parents are from India. Some
of my family is still there. I
frequently visit there.
I don't know which part you find
issue with, but this is what I
have seen and read about.
\_ There is nasty affirmative action in India which makes it
really really tough for Brahmins and Kshatriyas. Stupidity
doesn't end at US borders, it seems. -- ilyas
\_ Is it tougher for them than for members of the toilet
sweeping and rat catcher castes?
\_ As far as, for example, university admissions... yeah.
Ask any indian. -- ilyas
\_ how many indians have you asked? and did you ask
them what their castes are?
\_ I don't understand why this is relevant. Everyone I
know who is from India says this. You can google for
additional evidence on this. Do you think I am lying
or something? Ask Partha. -- ilyas
\_ I know there is something similar to affirmative
action in India. Please explain why it is "nasty"
and "stupid". And why it is "really really tough"
for Brahmins. Do you really know enough about
India to say that?
\_ In the words of Tyler Durden: "This conversation
is over." -- ilyas
\_ difficult to admit you have no clue what
you are talking about, eh?
\_ yes. A brahmin needs close to a perfect score on
an entrance exam, whereas a "rat catcher" only
needs 25%. Do you really want water quality
inspected by someone who got in with a 25%?
How about your health inspectors? Sometimes
it doesn't matter that you are "backwards",
there needs to be min standards.
\_ Are you a brahmin? If not, what caste are you from?
And what is your caste all about?
\_ Yes I am a brahmin. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:31109 Activity:low |
7/1 http://www.awitness.org/news/december_2001/osama_nose_job.html |
| 2004/6/26-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:31020 Activity:high |
6/26 Why do we have sanctions on Cuba?
\_ Because when Castro ousted Batista, he made ouvertures to the
Kennedy government, who didn't like his leftist leanings. There
followed a spiral of tit-for-tat, at some point the Cubans
nationalized most corporate possessions, which the Americans didn't
like, we organized and fucked-up an invasion, the Cubans got cozy
with the Soviets, who put missiles there, which we risked a
nuclear war to (successfully) get out. The sanctions came
about in the early '60s to try and force Castro out of office, and
have been propagated for a number of reasons, including not liking
commies in our back yard, Cuban human rights violations, and
obstinate right-wing Cuban expats in Florida. Look up the Helms-
Burton act and the history of the United Fruit Company for
starters. -John
\_ I wouldn't call the Florida Cubans right wing. I would call
them ardently anti-Castro. They're a one-platform political
group.
\_ To drive up the cost of Cuban cigars.
\_ because we got pissed off by Cuba's decision to become an
independent country than a colony of United States.
\_Wow, time to get your head out of your ass and read up on
basic 20th Century American history. How's the smell down there?
\_ w00t!
\_ how about next time you actually try to respond intelligently
\_ hard to say,. I think we're just waiting for castro to die now.
the cuba sanctions are pretty pointless
\_ Again, it amazes one how clueless supposedly intelligent people
are. We have sanctions against cuba because of the expatriot
cuban vote in Florida. C'mon, guys, you can't be that behind
politics in America, can you?
\_ so the entire country has sanctions against cuba because
of how a subset of floridians feel? i don't follow...
\_ Cuba has been the Soviets client state throughout
Castro's reign. On behalf of the Soviets Cubans trained
many of the Arab terrorists we fight today and sent
\_ judging by how much money we sent to pakistan
and afghanistan, i bet we trained way more
arab terrorists than the cubans. plus
the soviets aren't a threat anymore, they all
move to UCLA to be armchair historians.
\_ That's what we want you to think. -- ilyas
\_ You don't know what you are talking about.
troops to Nicaraugua, Zaire, Angola, and Algeria, among
others. The axis today between Castro, De Silva, and
Chavez is destroying South America.
\_ Chavez is in a lot of trouble. There's no doubt in
my mind the US has a lot to do with it. US foreign
policy successes (by their very nature) never get
publicized until much much later. -- ilyas
\_ you make laugh
\_ He has something to say. You're a low grade
troll.
\_ Because we can, the best of all reasons.
\- The US mania over cuba has consequences beyond bilateral
relations and domestic politics. It's gone beyond "mere"
mutual neglect. e.g. Helms-Burton. --psb
\_ stupid. we *can* destroy the whole fucking world. but we
don't. we *can* invade and take over all the annoying
EU countries that needle us constantly. but we don't. we
can do a lot of things that would be emotionally satisfying,
but we don't. you're an idiot. |
| 2004/5/18 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:30280 Activity:nil |
5/18 On the draft: There are *no rules* for the draft. Each is unique.
Just because they did XYZ in Vietnam or ABC in WWII doesn't mean they
will do the same thing again in any future drafts. A future draft
could cover any age range, could be in any order, could have any list
of exemptions or none at all. *IF* there is a draft, they will
determine the rules at the time. Anyone who tells you before that
time that you are or are not draftable doesn't know what they're
talking about.
\_ You are right, they could start out by drafting 80 year old
widows, but they probably won't.
\_ All you future draft dodgers don't need to worry. Planning is
being done so the U.S. has something in its back pocket in the
event of a serious threat to national security: e.g., North Korea
starts nuking, we end up in a war with China, Iran starts a
conventional war with threat of nukes, Pakistan-India blows up,
an oil-rich country is nuked, there is a coup which leads to any
of these things, etc. If any of the above happens, conscription
will be the least of your worries.
\_ I'd love to believe our country is this strong. But considering
that it only takes two small third-world countries, whose govts
have already been toppled, to strain our military resources so
badly, I wouldn't believe in this. |
| 2004/5/13-14 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:30206 Activity:kinda low |
5/13 Anti-oursourcing movement: http://tinyurl.com/29paf |
| 2004/4/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:13370 Activity:nil |
4/24 Hey, where is the long vietnam war thread? Did I miss any
insights from psb?
\- see http://csua.com
for me vs AMC --psb
\_ Wow. Pretty sad debate. I'm sure liberals and Democrats will
be faulted for the failures in Iraq too. The next person to
say Iraq == Vietnam needs to be slapped.
\_ Yah -- the problem wasn't lefties or liberals, it was the
60's counter-culture and 'free love' social phenomenon.
Without the support of the people, the government was
never able to muster sufficient support for our (better
trained, better equipped) troops to hold onto any tangible
victory. It was a pretty sad conflict. Though there may
be some peripheral similarities to Vietnam, the conflict in
Iraq actually has a fair degree of popular support.
\_ And the guerilla warfare, lack of clear goals, lack of
cooperation between the branches, and an utter lack of
what would constitute winning the war certainly didn't
help. Now, which war am I talking about?
\_ Stop. Stop right there. Vietnam and Iraq are two
different wars being fought for different reasons in
different parts of the world with different goals in
mind. They are DIFFERENT!
\_ Clear goal: democracy in iraq. What would constitute
winning the war: democracy in iraq. Utter lack of
cooperation between the branches: source-p.
You are repeating things you heard without thinking.
\_ That's a clear POLITICAL goal. What's the clear
MILITARY goal? We had a clear political goal in
Vietnam too.
\_ The Vietnam war had huge amounts of support until people
started doubting the bright and sunny forecasts and began
to see the effects on the vets returning.
\_ What made Vietnam so terrible was the fact that everything that
could be screwed up there, was. Eisenhower screwed 'Nam for
the French, JFK wouldn't let it die, LBJ tried to micromanage
it, and made the rules of engagement ridiculous. Nixon took a
shot a fixing things, but popular support was gone, so he
finally gave up, only to have congress completely screw Vietnam
over so the South couldn't continue fighting on it's own.
We've screwed somethings up in Iraq, but it's still nowhere
near 'Nam. Stop smokin' so much pot and come back to reality.
\_ No. What makes Vietnam so terrible *for Americans* was retreat
after so many years of war. Had Vietnam somehow stablized into
a situation akin to Korea, it would have been touted as a huge
success. The Vietnamese have their own view of the conflict
in their country. POV is important here.
\_ It's a bird, it's a plane, no it's "Captain Obvious!"
\_ Believe me, if there was an option not to retreat, we would've
stayed. Despite what you hear in the 'free media', we retreated
because the PRC was engaged in the war and we had no other choice.
We retreated and and established diplomatic relationship with the
PRC. It was the only exit strategy. The PRC can afford keep
fighting the war, we can't. We also 'gave' up Taiwan alone
with Vietnam. You honestly think we would've done so if we had
a choice? So don't just say "oh why did we retreat", it's like
saying, oh why did we use the A-bomb. We did because we have
no other choice. |
| 2004/4/24-25 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:13365 Activity:nil |
4/23 Yeah, you counter-culture beatniks really emote the truth with
these so-called pics of dead serviceman at http://thememoryhole.org
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/23/iraq.photographs.nasa.reut/index.html
I hope when YOU are dead, they showed pictures of YOUR CASKET.
I am just glad it won't be blessed with an American flag.
\_ Here you have before you a live Bush supporter.
Don't get too close, they bite!
\_ you're just saying that liberal crap because you don't really
understand the policy. this should clear it up:
http://www.whitehouse.org/news/2003/102403.asp
\_ despite the policy, i do wonder where all those corpses go
\_ the *only* reason that these photos (or video) are not
released is so that public opinion does not turn against
any post-vietnam war. the gov't doesn't give a shit about
families feelings, let alone their health (e.g., agent
orange, gulf war syndrome, etc). Don't fool yourself into
always accepting the gov't line. "Trust no one". -Mulder
\_ Talk to some of their families, who say they want the public to
know how many are dying.
\_ Look. It's understandable that military families don't want to
lose loved ones, but this is how war is. I am sure _some_ of
the military families dislike Bush and his policies, but so what?
The public is fully aware of how many are dying, it's being
trumpeted by CNN every single fucking day. At any rate,
50,000 >>> 700.
\_ where do you get your 50k figure? about 4 MILLION
died in the vietnam war.
\_ 50k combat US deaths, about 60k total US deaths around
Vietnam. Did you notice that this thread was talking
about US casualties, not total casualties?
\_ Are you counting the *entire* Vietnam war which includes
the time the French were there and we weren't? It was
roughly 2m Vietnamese dead during the time the US was
there. 40:1 is pretty god damned good. This was a war
lost at home, not in the field. If we "lose" in Iraq
it won't be because we lost on the ground. As usual it
will be lost at home because of people like you.
\- Mr. D. Ass: wars are about achieving your
political objective, not maximizing your own to
enemy casualty rate. Rather than win/lose, ask
yourself what was the point of the US involvement
and then answer whether that goal was achieved
and eval whether it was "successful" on those
terms. While you are at it, you may want to
look up what city SGN is the airport code for.
"Let me speak honestly, frankly, -Le Duc Tho to
openheartedly. You are a liar." Super K
--psb
\_ Uhm...did you even read the post you're
replying to? I think you just reiterated his
point, only with a bunch of lame ad hominem
thrown in.
\_ Talk about missing the point.... After the
Tet Offensive, the leftists in America forced
us to finally leave, when in fact that very
same assault was beaten back with minimal
American losses and truly devastating losses
to the enemy. After the TO the enemy had no
reserves or military strength. The war was
over. We had won. Except we didn't because
it was lost at home. We walked away after
one of the biggest military victories in
history and chalked up the whole thing as a
military and political loss. There was never
a military loss. The political loss was
caused by people like the person I replied to
above, at home. --that poster above
\- explaining why the war unfolded as it
did or what were the side effects of the
war whike interesting history is diff q
than "was the war a success". if the war
was conducted to prevent a communist
victory, well that didnt happen, did it.
you can say "enough was done to prevent
the dominos from falling" but that also
opens the response that "the domino
theory as stated was wrong" since
marginal changes in the balance of power
didnt seem to be destabilizing. so you
tell me first "what was the point of the
american intervention in vietnam"? and
then we'll talk about whether that was
successful. Obviously the North `won' the
Civil War in the sense that the union was
preserved, slavery abolished, and ante-
bellum souther culture and economics
changed. However, the Union also had
vastly higher wounded/killed. --psb
\_ Good duck. Back to the point: if we
had stayed after the TO and not let
ourselves be mislead by the left in
this country, the North would have
been beaten back and Vietnam would
most likely be a mirror of what SK
has become today. Democratic,
industrial, capitalist, generally
successful. We won Vietnam on the
ground, but lost it at home.
\_ S. Vietnam invaded, Cambodia
invaded, Afghanistan invaded,
Angola and Mozambique Communist
revolutions, Nicarauga
communist revolution
... seems to me the domino
theory was right. The Soviets
realized they could not
contest NATO in Europe so
they pursued the third world.
This is history of the
Cold War 101.
\- how did any of these affect
US security? do you think the
break down of sino-soviet
harmony in the 1960, becoming
smewhat open with the conflict
on the ussuri river caused the
a shift in the balance of
power between E and W? If the
"loss of china" didnt cause much
security problems for the SU,
dont you think it is odd to
suggest angola, nic. cuba etc
especially mattered in terms of
the "big picture"? afganistan
arguably was a bit of a change
in doctrine. --psb
\_ If you can't formulate
an explanation yourself
I don't think there's
much point in explaining
it. But Afghanistan
for example
offered a land bridge to
the middle east and
the goal was the
warm water ports of
Pakistan. The outlook
was pretty bleak for
the US in the 1970s.
\- On vietnam see
Leslie Gelb and Richard K Betts:
The Irony of Vietnam and Bernard
Brodie, War and Politics ... "many
grave ... decisions concerning 'nam
were made on assumptions or premises
which would not withstand any kind of
logical scrutiny but were simply never
challenged" ... e.g. domino theory.
For similar on say Afganistan see
Stephen Van Evera's ppr called
something like "why states believe
stupid things." Of course Waltz'79
is an exceptional book. It has a
reference: "as some saw early in the
struggle, and as most saw later on,
in terms of global politics little was
at stake in vietnam (Steossinger'76,
Chap 8, shows this was Kissinger's
view)." --psb
\_ Quoting a bunch of folks out of
context doesn't add anything or
make a point. It does kind of turn
me on though and makes you look
very pseudo brainy. Can I have your
love child?
\_ Let me get this straight: with 30 years of
hindsight, you honestly believe that Vietnam was
a war worth fighting? That we should have stuck
it out just to put yet another notch in the win
column? I find that appalling, and I'd like to
know-- why?
\_ I am not the poster above, but whether Vietnam
was worth fighting depends on whether you believe
the containment strategy was a good idea.
It's a good question, and I am not sure I know
the answer. Certainly rejecting Vietnam as a bad
idea just because a lot of people died seems wrong.
-- ilyas
\_ I am not the poster above.
While containment is arguably an ok idea,
Vietnam turned out to be a bad place to do
it. American arrogance and racism alienating
the Vietnamese did not help. Should've
recognized the mistake and futility earlier
and taken a step back and done the containment
at the border of Thailand.
\_ Your argument is different from the guy above
you, he says: "Vietnam itself was a bad war",
while you say something much weaker:
"Vietnam execution had mistakes". Certainly
this is true. I don't believe there was
institutional racism in Vietnam, but I am
not a student of that war (I find it to be
kind of a boring war, in fact I find all
American wars to be boring for some reason).
-- ilyas
\_ Sure, but execution is almost
everything. Your execution should not
be contrary to your purpose for the war.
Also, one has to ask if US's concern
for the livelihood of the Vietnamese
or just view it as a pawn in a global
fight against communism. Did US really
cared if 1 million or 4 million
vietnamese died? At that point in
time racism was still institutionalized
in America itself, why do you not
believe it's in Vietnam too?
\_ 25 million Russians and
10 million Germans died in
WWII - was this also a racist
war? As with all Communist
insurrections, the war is cast
in terms national liberation
by a cadre at the top. Once
the fighting has ended the
common people and footsoldiers
realize they have
been duped and, if they are
not subsequently assasinated,
find themselves living as
serfs in a totalitarian
society.
\_ Nazi belief in racial
superiority certainly played
a role in the decision to
invade Russia. I don't know
what you mean by "racist war".
I did not say that racism is
the sole driver of the wars.
\_ Vietnam was conceptually similar to Korea - was
the Korean War a good idea? Considering
S. Korea is the 11th largest economy in the world
I'd say so. Vietnam was won. South Vietnam
was free and democratic for two years until the
leftists in Congress that Kerry epitomized
decided to
withdrawl all military and financial support
to Saigon. N. Vietnam, backed by the Soviets and
China, violated the Treaty of Paris and invaded
not only S. Vietnam but also Cambodia.
\_ your arithmetic expressions holds true. so at what point
are the deaths too much? 7000?
\_ One wonders if the US pulled out of Vietnam due to casualty
aversion or something else. -- ilyas
\_ Because of leftists in gov't and Congress.
\_ Yeah, this is just like Vietnam.
\_ Soldiers who die in the line of duty deserve to be honored, both
in private ceremonies and in public. There is no shame in dying
for your country, nor is there shame in sending men and women to
die for their country. Either take pride in them and honor them
publicly, or admit that you have not the courage of your
convictions and you've asked them to die for a farce.
\_ there is plenty of shame in sending men and women to die
needlessly for their country.
\_ Don't blame the soldier, blame the Commander(s) in Chief
\_ Starting with jimmie carter who proved to the islamic
fascists that terrorism can work again a super power.
\_ rofl, terrorism has always worked. most rebellions
start out as "terrorism" |
| 2004/3/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12895 Activity:kinda low |
3/27 Has anyone bought travel health insurance before for a trip to
another country (especially for third-world countries like
ghana, india, etc)? Do you recommend it?
\_ yes.
\- are you trying to insure against digestive meltdown or
hepatitis or motorcycle accident? are you looking for travel
insurance that will evacuate you by helicopter from the
backwaters of nepal? i'm not sure you need much more than a
bottle of cipro and some local intelligence. --psb
\_ how about Maoist insurgance in Nepal :p |
| 2004/2/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12218 Activity:high 61%like:10955 |
2/11 Colin Powell losing it: (buh-bye legacy!)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34636-2004Feb11.html
\_ "Losing it" != telling off insolent, disrespectful idiots during a
formal hearing, at which you are expected to conform to rules of
order. It would have been equally correct of Clinton to go off on
someone treating him this way when answering a question posed by some
drooling old congressman about "where he stuck that cigar". -John
\_ yes, but can you give an example where Clinton went off like
that? And if he did, wouldn't you also think Clinton was
on uncertain footing when he did tell someone off?
-anonymous coward & op
\_ Hmm, Colin Powell vs. anonymous adolescent on MOTD in support
of insolent pages and socialists? I'll stick with
member of the lowest profession earth? I'll stick with
Powell thanks.
\_ Powell? Losing it? Racist. I'll bet you've spent time trying to
fabricate dirt on Condi, too.
\_ IMO, he's losing it. I think he's saluting the flag, and getting
pretty irritated at the prospect of the tarnishing of his
reputation from loyalty to Bush. Also, IMO, if you ever find
yourself using the phrase "let's not go there", you've already
Powell thanks.
fabricate dirt on Condi, too.
lost. -op |
| 2004/2/10-11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12200 Activity:very high |
2/10 I've been seeing a lot in the news about outsourcing IT jobs
recently, but nobody ever brings up economic arguments about
how free trade benefits everyone. To me it seems like the best
thing for the US would be to allow outsourcing and use taxes
from increased corporate profits to help temporarily displaced
workers. Any thoughts on why all the outsourcing arguments are
emotional outbursts instead of rational economic arguments?
\_ It's money going into foreign economies, to be used there.
I don't know how increased corporate profits really leads to
increased tax intake... my impression is that any corp worth
its salt will create a shelter around the outsourced call center
so that the CC can report great profits without being taxed at
the US rate. Can somebody back me up or correct me?
\_ Actually no. For various reasons, foreign economies, esp.
those 3rd countries that you are worried about outsourcing to,
have a historical difficulty in keeping money in their own
country, and it is not getting any better. In fact this
is one reason driving them so hard to keep exporting and
getting sourced -- just to keep afloat, barely.
\_ Temporarily replaced until what? They get a burger flipping job?
But oh yeah even McDonald's was closing storefronts and laying off
people. What could be worse than getting laid off from McD's?
These are not American companies. They are vast multinational
corporations with no concern or regard for this or any other
country's people. Profit is God and it isn't being put back into
the economy in a useful way. How did HP eating Compaq, laying off
10's of thousands of Americans and moving their jobs to India help
Americans?
\_ Are you saying Carly Fiorina isn't American?
\_ I understand what CF owes to her kids. I understand
what she owes to her shareholders. I understand what
she owes to her neighbors and secretary and employees.
Can you explain to be what special duties she owes to
Americans? Does she have some special obligation also
to say white people? --psb
\_ Partha, you're an American. From this we can prove
\- how do you figure that? my point being if you
\- how do you figure that? my point is: if you
feel she/HP owe something to "all americans"
because they are "more like" americans, then
why doenst this apply to race? i would like you'
to argue why race and nationality should be
trated differently ... or fess up that they
are equally valid moral categories based on
which to treat people differently. --psb
\_ I would say that distinguishing CF from
the entity of HP dilutes the point. The
point is the corporation is operating in
this country. It reaps benefits from this
country and its stability. We should have
the balls to say "If you don't employ people
here, you should be paying higher taxes."
-scotsman
\_ So you're not an American? Then wtf are you
doing here then? Go back to your own country.
\_ He might be a permanent resident which
would mean that he isn't an American,
but he has every right to remain here
provided he does not commit a deportable
offense.
\_ Race: a function of genetics. Nationality:
a function of social grouping. I'd argue
that race is less important than nationality
on that basis, and that nationality is less
important than tribe, and that tribe is less
important than family. Depending on the
level of nurture/support you received from
those levels, you could conceivably swap
them around, with the exception of Race,
which may form the tenuous basis for initial
social interaction, but which does not
inform or impose social groups/interactions
on its own. Again, depending on the level
of support/nurture you receive, your loyalty
to the various levels in the hiearchy may
also vary. CF owes no moral duty to other
white people (or, for that matter, women);
she does owe a moral duty to America for
providing her with a socio-economic
environment conducive to satisfying her
corporate greed. As a captain of industry,
it is her duty to perpetuate the corporate
industrial model by providing jobs and
strenghtening the economy.
\_ You've contradicted yourself with
your own arguement. Sure, a CEO
*should* show loyalty to their nation.
However, their tribe, the tribe of
CEOs and other members of the plunderer
class holds far more loyalty from its
members than nations do from their
citizens. Which is why we need laws,
and which is why the world would be a
better place if the motd libertarians
would just fucking keel over and die.
\_ *shrug* I never argued that a person
should owe loyalty to their nation
over the loyalty owed to their tribe.
I simply argued that the duty to
Nation is more morally justifiable
than the duty to Race.
that not all Americans are white people. In addition,
Prince Charles is a white person. From this we can
prove that not all white people are Americans. Having
dispensed with the mythical relationship between being
white and being American, we can now move to the
specifics: CF is American and her kids are Americans.
Therefore, anything that CF does to increase her
bottom line benefits Americans, regardless of whether
she has some special duty to do so.
\_ Your sound like a classic Marxist-Leninist class warrior,
who believes wealth is redistributed rather than created.
I am not fond of Bush yet if it would be truly disastrous should
we replace him by a protectionist demagogue. Economy by
its very nature has ups and downs. Why didn't we complain when
the time was too good? Are we too spoiled to adapt and create?
Besides, other than psychological stress, do you know anyone
who is suffering horribly (homeless in People's park don't count
- they never did.)
\_ Why don't the homeless count? How about other poor people?
How about the guy who is raped nightly in prison?
\_ Well, it helped in that we can now buy computers for something
like $500 instead of $2000. More people own them now than ever
and are proficient in using them. Is losing those high-paid
R&D jobs worth it (ex DEC guys)? The answer is that it depends.
\_ This conversation is funny because you guys are all talking
about jobs which YOU hold that could be the target of such
outsourcing, and you're goofing off at work to talk about it.
Get back to work, drones.
\_ These responses are perfect examples of what I'm wondering about.
Imagine that everyone in the US can produce either 8 sodas
per day or 2 pizzas per day while people in India can
produce 1 soda per day or 4 pizzas per day. If people
in the US refuse to allow outsourcing then all Americans
must make do with s/8+p/2 <= 1 (where s is number of sodas and
p is number of pizzas). If we allow outsourcing
so that Indians specialize in pizzas and Americans specialize
in sodas which are traded 1-to-1 then Americans can have
s/8+p/4 <= 1. Thus Americans *benefit* (You can show that
Indians benefit too). The end result turns out the same
pretty much no matter what numbers you plug in. Essentially
everyone benefits by spending their labor on what they are
best at. Of course, this model ignores things like American
pizza maker's being put out of work when pizza making moves
to India. But the solution to that would seem to be to use
tax revenues to retrain them so that everyone is better off.-op
\_ Retrain them for what? These are American companies setting
up shop in other countries (basically international co's).
So the skill and knowhow are transferred, while labor, tax,
environmental etc. regulations are better for them and wages
are dirt cheap. Labor itself is a tradeable good, which
puts downward competitive pressure on labor standards. Without
protection, regular American workers can't be competitive with
other countries willing to have lower standards, as over time
the competitive advantage in skills narrows and disappears.
US still has the advantage in certain tech areas and research,
but that's not a broad employment area and corps can just use
that here with minimum investment in the economy.
\_ Retrain them for jobs in the medical profession for
example. We have a shortage of doctors in this country.
If another country can do something dirt cheap then why
not let them do it cheaply and spend our effort on higher
value products? The money saved by outsourcing to India
can be used to make our economy stronger by investing in
research, education, science, etc. Why not take the $70K
IT job and ship it to India for $20K and spend the $50K
on training the former IT worker to do something even
more productive like discovering a cure for cancer? -op
\_ White collar jobs being outsourced to India aren't being sent
there because Indians do it better, but because Indians will do
it for less. You really just explained why trade is good.
\_ I realize that, but this was simpler to show quickly.
Like I said, no matter how you set things up, free trade
usually benefits everyone. My point was that I can't
these good economic argument against outsourcing as long
as some provision is made for temporarily displaced
workers (e.g., retraining, education, unemployment). -op
\_ "free trade" does not benefit everyone. There are
winners and losers. Ask Detroit if they benefited
from the mad rush of manufacturing jobs overseas.
It benefits shareholders and CEOs. Probably overall
hurts the working and middle classes.
\_ I agree that Detroit is an example of what can go
wrong with free trade. But I fault our society and
government for not making the effort to retrain and
educate former auto workers for careers in better
professions. If they had done that, we would have
cheaper foreign cars and more prosperous workers.-op
\_ Our middle class was built on a robust manufacturing economy.
That economy was outsourced, causing massive upheavals of all
sorts and lots of Bad Stuff (c.f. 1970s, early '80s). It
was replaced by a service economy that now seems to be in
the early stages of being outsourced. What I'm wondering is
twofold: What are the consequences, economically and socially,
of another such upheaval, and what will replace the service
economy? Another way of putting the first part of the
question is, "Have you ever seen what happened to Detroit?"
Free trade definitely has its benefits, and I'm in favor of
it with some caveats, but keep in mind its a CHOICE, not
an inevitability, and I think it benefits some much more than
others.
\_ The borrow-from-the-Chinese economy.
\_ The middle/upper management economy.
\_ So do those of you who oppose IT outsourcing buy American? If
not, why is it OK for you to buy foreign cars, clothes, or
electronics but not OK for a company to offer cheaper service
by outsourcing IT jobs? I'm curious since a good response would
let me drive my Toyota, oppose outsourcing, and sleep well at night. |
| 2004/2/10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:12191 Activity:nil |
2/10 According to the McKinsey Global Institute, offshoring will benefit
the US by saving money (which can be passed on to the customer or the
investor, and you guess which one is more likely to see the money) and
by creating wealth overseas that will be used to buy products from the
US:
http://csua.org/u/5xg (Economic Times of India)
How does this make any sense? Why wouldn't offshorers take their
wages and invest them locally (i.e., buy knock-off CDs and DVDs)
instead of paying US prices for goods?
\_ Don't worry. The invisible hand will make everything right.
\_ No, it doesn't make any sense. The report is easily shredded. This
is just PR puffery from Indian IT firms.
\_ This PR Puffery is echoed by the bush administration.
\_ Yes, so? What's that have to do with the OP's questions? Are
you trying to say that because the current administration says
something is true makes it true? Think for yourself for once. |
| 2004/1/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:12023 Activity:very high |
1/29 Ah, our good friends and allies...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/24/terror/main595582.shtml
\_ Mussharif is only holding onto power by his fingernails. If
he let in US troops that would be the end of him.
\_ so who exactly is booting him out and why would they be
successful?
\_ Good grief. Just go read about the past couple of years in
Pakistan in your favorite news venue.
\_ I have. I read a lot of hysteria, and it's tough to
know how exposed leaders of state actually are in
foreign countries.
\_ So you can't figure it out yet you call it hysteria?
I think 2 assassination attempts in a week is not
hysteria. Maybe you've got a stronger stomach than
me and Mussharraf.
\_ how about the nearly weekly assassination attempts, blamed on
Al-Queda/Taliban folks?
\_ One could say Musharraf is on the verge of getting killed,
or he has quashed the radicals responsible and tightened
security. Now which argument is valid?
\_ Having survived 2 very close assassination attempts very
recently it is unlikely he has magically quashed the
radicals responsible since then. Now which argument is
valid?
\_ for those who think we've always care about democracy. This
Mussharif guy is someone who overthrew a democratic elected
government at first place. He is a prime example of "as long as
you are pro-American, we don't really care what you do."
\_ "for those who"... no one thinks we've "always care about
democracy". that's a big fat straw man.
\_ do you acknowledge that it was a bloodless coup, that the
democratically-elected leader was corrupt, and that Musharraf
could just have easily not supported the U.S. strike against
the Taliban?
\_ Pakistan needed an ally to offset India/China. That has
nothing to do with the above line stating that this is
some wonderland where we always do the moral thing just
because it is the moral thing. No one believes that. It
is, as I said, a big fat strawman and now you're just
trying, and failing, to change the subject.
\_ Pakistan has one of the best spy agency outside the super-power
state. I really think Mussharif knows a lot more than he is
willing to admit.
\- i suspect pakistan's spy agency as a pretty limited set of
objectives. --psb
\_ 1) know what India is doing, 2) protect bin Laden and other
al Qaeda people, 3) know what is going on in the disputed
territories, 4) fuck shit up in disputed territories, 5) send
hit squads into Indian parliament. 5 isn't so many, I guess. |
| 2004/1/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Recreation/Food] UID:11789 Activity:high |
1/14 I thought everyone in the bay area knows about pho:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/01/14/FDGSV467631.DTL
\_ careful, Mad Cow'd soup bones where used by Vietnamese Restaurants
in Bay Area
\_ I didn't know about them until I started working at a mostly
Vietnamese company about three years back.
\_ I didn't know about them until I started working at a mostly
Vietnamese company about three years back.
\_ I don't like Viets but I must say Pho is one of those few
cool things they have contributed to this society.
\_ This place down the street from my place is called PHO KING. I
went in thinking I was going to get some sucky sucky from some
nice slender Viet girl, but to my surprise all they were
selling was some big bowls of noodles and beef.
\_ racist joke
\_ How do you pronounce PHO KING? FUH-KING?
\_ Assuming you're being serious, Fo King
\_ There is a place in Milpitas or so called "Pho Kim Long"
\_ Little do you know, it is actually pronounced like "fuh".
http://mlug.missouri.edu/~markrages/static/pho/phopage.html
\_ fuhk.
\_ you're so clever, you got the joke!
\_ There is a place in Milpitas or so called "Pho Kim Long" |
| 2003/11/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10915 Activity:nil |
11/3 Iraq: Another Vietnam?
http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB106782123961984600,00.html
\_ Yes, everything is Vietnam. I can't wait until the hippie/yuppie
generation retires and we can put their drug induced buggaboos
to rest. Don't trust anyone over 30.
\_ Gulf War I, I don't think anyone disagrees about that not
being a Vietnam
\_ Actually before the war, there was alot of Vietnam talk when
people weren't sure if the UN was going to occupy Iraq.
\_ Groan. The Tet offensive misinterpreted again. It was a big
victory for the US forces, but came on the heels of LBJ declaring
the war nearly over and talking possible troop pullback. Instead,
more troops were deployed and the US was stuck for another five
years. Iraq is NOT Vietnam. Somalia is NOT Vietnam. Bosnia is NOT
Vietnam. Grenada, Haiti, Panama ... NOT Vietnam. Damn Boomers.
\_ yea, but it's looking like the type of urban warfare we have
stated right from the start that we would try to avoid at all
cost.
\_ True, but the article refers to telling the "truth" about
Iraq and compares it to "Tet" as if to say "if only the
American public knew the TRUTH, we would have won Vietnam."
Correspondingly, if America knows the TRUTH about Iraq, we
would win. This at a time where the Administration is
refusing to release info on everything from energy policy to
threat memos concerning 9/11. TRUTH is so subjective.
\_ If Americans knew the truth about Iraq we wouldn't be
there.
\_ If Americans knew the truth, we would've done it right
in '91 instead of playing global politic.
\_ The TRUTH is out there.
\_ so's yermom
\_ IFILE!
\_ It does my taxes?
\_ IRS!
\_ Where are they going to put the monument to all the dead American
soldiers? Isn't The Mall getting kind of full???
\_ Maybe they'll stick some Post-It notes with the names on them
on the Vietnam Memorial.
\_ Why should there be? You do know that the KIAs from WWII don't
have a monument of any sort, right? |
| 2003/11/1-2 [Reference/RealEstate, Finance/Shopping, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10896 Activity:kinda low |
10/31 Oh great. A Vietnamese man just bought my building and has now
cancelled the property management firm, the cleaning contract,
and the pest control contract. He claims he can do it all
himself. There are 19 units and over 30 people in the building.
This is stupid - 5 years ago they finally beat back the roach
invasion and now this chump is going to let them back in?
Why is he so cheap?!
\_ why do you still live in the Bay Area?!
\_ Where do you live? And who do you work for?
\_ Vietnamese people are always cheap. They are your worst nightmare
as your employee (stupid) and your landlord (cheap). They're
also your worst roomates (dirty). I'm speaking from personal
experience. Do yourself a favor and move out ASAP.
\_ I've got 7 months left on my lease. ARGH!
\_ You can break lease and move now or wait and pay double in
7 months after the economy improves. Or you could kill him.
\_ um, how are we vietnamese dirty?
\_ heh, you'll accept stupid and cheap but dirty isn't ok?
\_ ha that's pretty funny. Anyways, how come Vietcongese
bashing is ok but black/white/jews bashing gets trashed
by motd custodians? Is it because our custodians don't
like Viets as well?
\_ No, b/w/j bashing mostly causes the flamefest intended
by the trolls posting. When that section of the motd
grows to 5 pages, it gets deleted.
\_ Edit it yourself. I like Vietnamese so well I married
one, I just don't see the need to censor idiots. It
is better to let the world see how stupid the bigots
really are.
\_ sheesh, what a bigot!
\_ Property management firms ... snicker. Those are usually
run by lazy, incompetent know-nothing do-nothing english major
suit-wearing money-grabbers who think they are entitled to a
high fee without providing any service. Of course he should
fire them and cut some fat. Helps the economy, if nothing else.
\_ I have yet to see an exception to the rule you state.
\_ personal experience: management company did what was needed to
be done at my apartment complex. it was very industrial and
there was no personal touch to anything but stuff got done. i
moved from there to another complex run by the one-owner-guy and
it was a big fucking filthy broken mess and a fire hazard to
boot! i'll take a prop. management firm anyday.
\_ I think you mean "industrious."
\_ no, I mean industrial. exactly like I said. thanks.
\_ At least your landlord wasn't the Lucky Reddy dude who bring
indian peasant girls to the country to serve as sex slave
and to help clean the apartment buildings.
\_ If you're not an Indian peasant girl what do you care? |
| 2003/10/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10856 Activity:nil |
10/29 How do I find archived news on CNN finance? I'm having problems
researching news on past dot coms, thanks.
\_ try http://fuckedcompany.com |
| 2003/10/8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Reference/BayArea] UID:10523 Activity:nil |
10/7 Despite being hit the hardest in terms of the economy, 60% of Bay Area
voters voted no on the recall. Now the movie begins.
\_ What gave you the idea that the BA was hardest hit? H1bs going
back to India don't count.
\_ http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2003/04/07/daily66.html?f=et79
\_ Most of them came here specifically for dotcom jobs when the
rate was under 2% and when they go home the rate will look
normal again.
\_ do you count jobs going to India?
\_ Jobs not here are jobs not here. I really don't understand
what you're getting at.
\_ http://csua.org/u/4n2 |
| 2003/9/23 [Finance/CC, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:10289 Activity:nil |
9/22 I've had 2 Vietnamese roomates so far and I think they're AWFUL.
They are dirty, lie about bills, and one of them is a thief (stole
my credit card number and used them to order stuff sent to their
homes in San Diego). I think of all the Asians out there, the
Vietnamese people are amongst them one of the nastiest out there.
I'm not saying ALL VCs are bad, just that in my personal experience
many of them are. Also, I'm not saying that they're genetically
inferior-- their behaviour is mostly defined by their background,
and their refugee background is most likely what makes them what
they are. Roomates, beware, and good luck to you all.
\_ watch out for philipinos too |
| 2003/4/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:28007 Activity:insanely high |
4/5 What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the
homeless, whether the mad destruction is brought under the name
of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?
- Gandhi
\_ Gandhi was a British subject, disgruntled because he could not
become an officer, who slept with preteen girls in the
nude, was fixated on his own feces, gave tacit approval
of the wholesale slaughter of Muslims after independence,
advised the Jews of the Holocaust to go quietly, and was a
supporter of the caste system.
\_ Interesting; could you cite a few sources?
\_ So what? Look up ad hominem.
\- i imagine this is a troll, but in case it leaves some of
with mistaken impressions:
1. he was a british subject as a consequence of birth.
g. washington was also a british subject.
2. "couldnt not become an officer" ... "yes, g. washington
also was disgruntled because he couldnt become archbishop
of canterbury"
3. girls and feces ... feces not quite right. something
possibly to the girl stuff. i dont think there was any
accusation of molestation. YMWT(see) the play "gandhi vs.
the mahatma".
4. muslim: the main reason i replied. that is 100% opposite
to the actual state of affiars.
5. jews: dunno the answer there
6. caste system: more complicated than that
People in india have much more complicated and diverse
reactions and mpression of Gandhi in india. I dont think
much of this particular quites but he has some others that
much of this particular quote but he has some others that
arent to be believed slavishly but worth thinking about.
\_ You want a real answer? The answer is that it doesn't matter to
the dead, but for millions of others who didn't get dead it
matters a lot. It's a naive and childish but catchy little quote.
\_ It matters to me, if I get a good paying job because the economy
improves because market and consumer confience recovers because
of a decisive military victory for whatever reason and because,
in time, we will have virtually unlimited supply of fuel.
\_ In time we will have a virtually unlimited supply
of fuel, but not because of Iraq or the war. Rather
the source will be our own waste coverted to fuel
via a fast depolymerization process (see this month's
discover for more info).
\_ moron... in time, we will only be running out of fossil fuel.
\_ The world has 2000-4000 years worth of coal, much of which is
in the U.S. Probably a good 200 years of oil, also.
I'm not advocating relying on fossil fuels, which is
a bad idea for alot of reasons, but we're not running
out any time soon.
\_ on the contrary, estimates of oil reserves can vary widely.
there are those who think oil will run out by the 2050's.
I.e. well within your projected lifetime.
\_ 2000+ years coal and 200 years oil!? Are you serious? URL
for sources please?
\_ I got those numbers from a UN report, which is
available on the web, but I can't find it right now.
if you're patient, I'll post it tomorrow, when I can
ask the guy who showed it to me(I'll post it anyway.) |
| 2003/3/27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:27872 Activity:nil |
3/26 What the Slimes were saying about Afghanistan after 3 weeks -
NY Times article entitled: Quagmire Recalled: Afghanistan as Vietnam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/876504/posts
\_ What part of that article doesn't still hold true? The Vietnam
comparison was weak, but it basically says that
* the war is going more slowly than hoped
* real ground troops are required
* air power / special ops are not enough
* setting up a new government will be difficult
All of this has been borne out. The country is still controlled
by warlords in nearly every area; there are still many terrorist
hideouts that can't be searched by a small force, and the special
ops teams are spread too thin.
\_ No one said it would turn into the flower of central asian
democracy in a week. I see no problems there that time won't
cure.
\_ time and support, yes. I'm not saying the situation is
horrible. But the article was right. We did need regular
troops, and those troops were sent. Not enough, because of
Iraq.
\_ They were wrong on every account. The Afghan national army
was being trained, and is now making progress. |
| 2003/3/26 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:27867 Activity:nil |
3/26 Petition to get India a permanent seat on the UNSC:
http://www.sulekha.com/un
\_ what possible benefit would that be to anyone but India?
\_ I doubt Pakistan would be happy with that. Do you really want a
nuclear war in asia?
\_ How about a petition to re-org the UNSC since it's entirely
anachronistic and idiotic in today's world as it's formed now? |
| 2003/1/30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:27248 Activity:nil |
1/30 hola, i am no expert on indian politics but this seems an interesting
development. --psb
http://csua.org/u/8a3
\_ Another critical foreign policy issue for the Bush administration.
I have a bad feeling about this.
\_ Quite an enjoyer of global politics as spectator sport, aren't you?
\_ This is very kewl. Thanks, Partha! -psb #3 fan
\- you know, this brings a new meaning to: --psb
### guardians of the revolution in great white satan amerikkka
komiteh-owner: hojjat-al-islam-psb
komiteh: payam, ali, psb, allenp, abe
revolutionary-guards: komiteh
ayatollah-khomeini: ali
ayatollah-montazeri: payam
ayatollah-beheshti: allenp
hojjat-al-islam-psb: psb
\_ Maybe they'll finally nuke each other and get it over with. |
| 2003/1/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26978 Activity:moderate |
1/3 hola, does anyone know of any chinese/vietanese bakeries and
vietnamese sandwich shops [like saigon sandwich at larkin and eddy]
in OAK downtown? i have to meet someone on franklin st on fri --psb
\_ Franklin and 6th-12th Streets or so is in Chinatown. There are a
lot of such shops around there.
lot of such AMPs around there.
that serves great vietnamese sandwitches for like 2 bucks. Forget
\_ there is a hole in the wall right next to the mall in OAK chinatown
that serves great vietnamese hookers for like 2 bucks. Forget
exactly where it is though. Right across the street from one side
or the other with a green awning.
\_ thanks, best damn 2 dollar food I've had in ages
\_ 10th and Webster, about a half block down Webster. Right
$25 in food [and am feeling kind of ill now] at a couple
of bakeries and sandwich facilites. these include
around the corner from where I work. --erikred
\_ thanks, best damn 2 dollar sex I've had in ages
\- what is the name of this place? i ended up buying like
\_ what is a "vietnamese sandwich"? it doesn't bring a pleasant image
$25 in sex [and am feeling kind of ill now] at a couple
\- it is a sandwich made with
of brothels and hookers facilites. these include
Cam Hong on Franklin and Lao Houng [807 E. 12th]
[sp? on both names ... might be \pm a vowel or so].
ok tnx. --psb
\_ Any good place like this in Stanford/Palo Alto/MenloPark/Redwood
City area?
\_ what is a "vietnamese hookers"? it doesn't bring a pleasant image
\_ what is a "vietnamese hooker"? it doesn't bring a pleasant image
\- it is a hookers made with
to mind.
\- it is a hooker made with
Mango, Oregano, Radishes, Olives, Nutella
--psb
\_ fresh french baguette roll, a meat (pate, vietnamese
grilled pork, chicken, etc), radish, carrots, cilantro,
seasoning and some leafy lettuce. and jalapeno slices.
usually sell for $2-$3 depending on place. damn good.
\_ "vietnamese hookers" is good. Two young hookers and you slip
some meat between a pair of buns. Only $1.50 each at some places
\_ I slip my meat between a pair of buns? Ooh, ahh.
\_ oh, how clever! hookers instead of sandwiches! |
| 2002/11/6 [Reference/Languages, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26438 Activity:very high |
11/5 What's the right pronunciation of Ngyuen? Gwen? New-Yen?
\_ You can't make that sound without practice. Nyen is close.
\_ You can't make that sound without practice. Nwin is close.
\_ Ok, can a Vietnamese native speaker record a correct
pronunciation (.wav or something) and post it in /csua/tmp?
Curious people want to know...
\_ I've always pronounced it closer to new-wen.
\_ And your first language was what?
\_ It is definitately only one syllable, no matter how you say it.
I think you mean Nguyen, right?
\_ bah, the first guy was right Nwin is how you say it
\_ I once knew a girl with that name who insisted
it was pronounced "nu-yin".
\_ that's cuz you she didn't want you in her pants
\_ I searched Yahoo and found both Nguyen and Ngyuen. Are
they equivalent? Or are they both correct but different
last names?
\_ Yeah and what about Ng? Is that "ing"? If so why not spell it that
way in the goddam first place? For that matter why would someone
write a name "Hsiao", I mean it sure wasn't written that way in
China so why not just write it phonetically?
\_ The name is Nguyen. It is the most common Vietnamese last
name, much more common than Smith is here, and was the name of
a series of emperors, the Nguyen Dynasty. "Nguyen" is the
Anglisized spelling. In Vietnamese, there's a circumflex (^)
over the "e" and a tilde (~) over the circumflex. I've never
heard of Ngyuen before. That doesn't mean it's not a name, but
I'm sure the one you're thinking of is Nguyen.
The reason that they don't spell it "ing" in the goddamn first
place is that it's not pronounced that way. It's actually
pronounced "ng", so a better question would be: why don't you
pronounce it that way in the goddamn first place? Actually, it
can't be pronounced using English, only approximated (the
alphabet is based on French, btw). There are three reasons for
this:
1. The "Ng" at the beginning. We actually have this sound in
English, but it only appears at the end of words. For some
reason it's really hard for us native English speakers to say
it at the beginning of a word. It's pronounced like the _end_
of "ing". I taught myself to say it by saying "ring" and
holding the "ng" part at the end, after the "i".
2. The tone. In Vietnamese (and many other Asian languages)
the meaning of a word depends on the tone you use when saying
it. This can't really be described in writing, so get a
Vietnamese person to pronounce it for you. It took me a while
to even be able to hear tones in Vietnamese; they all sounded
the same to me. For Nguyen, it's kind of like starting your
voice at a normal pitch at "Ng", making the pitch drop as you
say the letters through "uy", and then making the pitch sharply
rise as you say, "en".
3. The pacing. In English, this word would be pronounced with
two syllables: Nguy-en or maybe Ngu-yen. However, in
Vietnamese it's pronounced as one syllable.
In my opinion, "gwin" (like Tony Gwynn) is the closest you can
come in English, but even then it's not that close to the
Vietnamese pronounciation. - mikeym
\_ \Win\ |
| 2002/10/18 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:26250 Activity:nil |
10/18 http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4310500.htm The problem isn't ``foreigners taking our jobs,'' it's ``American companies can get IT work done more cheaply overseas.'' \_ Why go overseas when you can pick up H1Bs here who are afraid of packing themselves and their families up and moving back to the home country? It's a little more pricey, but you have greater control over the product, the employee, and avoid middleman markup? \_ All work can be done more cheaply overseas. This includes medical care, manufacturing, and so on. Cost-of-living is cheaper there and so are wages. The problem is what happens when everyone has been outsourced. Who will keep the US economy afloat then? --dim \_ I'm curious about how you would outsource medical care. Fly people to Taiwan? -tom \_ Lots of people go to Mexico for medical care. The point being that doctors in Mexico make less than doctors here, even though it's a skilled and valuable profession. Everything costs less to do somewhere else. --dim \_ It's not hard for Kaiser-style medical care. You call Kaiser saying you are very sick and you want to make an appointment to see a doctor, and the guy on the phone keeps on asking you if you feel this and if you feel that, telling you it's no big deal and go get some over-the-counter medicine and drink lots lots of water, and bye. If you insist on making an appointment, he'll tell you there's a slot in three months. Then you're left dying and he gets a bonus for turning yet another patient away and saving the company money. For this kind of medical care, it's easy to outsource to any English- speaking country with a phone network. |
| 2002/6/19 [Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:25152 Activity:nil |
6/19 Is this true or bogus or biased:
\_ biased.
----------
Ah, Gandhi, the one that sat on his ass for months while the Indian
National Army men(those former Indian soldiers under the Japanese) were
campaigning for the release of their leaders and rioting on the streets
even getting killed. When Gandhi began to see an opportunity opening he
began a peace march which seem laughable to the Brits because all they
had to do was wait until they go away. But the riots and mutiny was
another matter.
"In 1956 Lord Attlee(former Prime Minister of Great Britain)
was asked a question about Britain's hurried withdrawal from
India in 1947. The British statesman who presided over the
transfer of power to the leaders of India and Pakistan was
halting in Calcutta for two days during his passage through
India...Attlee was as good as his reputation for plain
speaking. Without caring about the official British propaganda
line, he mentioned a number of reasons for Britain's momentous
decision, the most important among which, he emphasized, was
that "the loyalty of the men of the Indian Army to their British
commanders had been UNDERMINED by Subhas Chandra Bose's
(Leader of Indian National Army) actions..." Incidentally,
Governor P.B. Chakaravarti asked Lord Attlee his opinion on
an allied subject as well. "Toward the end of the discussion",
he wrote, "I wanted to know to what extent Mahatma Gandhi's
non-violent movement had influenced the British decision to
leave India. There was the flicker of a cautious smile on
Attlee's lips as he uttered with slow deliberation the word
'MI-NI-MAL'..." Who had brought the country(India) so near
its goal? General Sinha's answer is: "The above facts confirm
that the INA(Indian National Army, which Japan helped to create)
had a great psychological and political impact even though its
military impact was not so significant. They also bring out that
the Indian Army played a silent but significant role toward
bringing about the independence of India.
(Pandit's "The Last Days of Netaji")
---------- |
| 2002/6/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:25032 Activity:high |
6/7 I don't get this India/Paki thing. What's so special about Kashmir?
Are they fighting for oil? minerals? Surely they're not fighting
for stupid fir are they?
\_ one of the legacy Britsh Empire left behind. This, along with
Isreal/Palastine, Kuwait/Iraq, Hong Kong/China mainland, as
part of White Man's burden to Civilize world. American is
trying to out-do Britian by muddling with North/South Korea,
North/South Vietnam, and China mainland and Taiwan island.
\_ isreal/palastine? legacy of the british empire? you're
an idiot. read the fucking bible.
\_ uhm what about it? Where's the part in there about suicide
bombers? I recall God saying suicide was a sin.
\_ White Man's Burden? All "White Men" are not responsible for what
the British aristocracy did over the last several centuries.
\_ they're fighting for religious reasons mostly but im no expert.
or maybe you could say it's political with religious underpinnings.
\_ They're fighting over sweaters.
\_ Is this Kashmir really the same "kashmir" as the variant of
"cashmere"? Or is it coincidence?
\_ It's where the animals with the wool used for cashmere
sweaters are from.
http://www.cashmere.com/html/101/101.html
\_ <DEAD>www.kashmir.com/Causeofconflict.html<DEAD>
\_ Yep. Clearly stated with no bias at all. Sure-thing.
\_ "I saw it on the net! It must be true! It's like Peter
Jennings! Yeah!"
\_ They're both huge Zeppelin fans.
\_ DUDE!
\_ Kashmir is a very rich and beautiful piece of land.
\_ i guess if you like living at 5,000 feet on a bunch
of rocks.
\_ Not down in the valley. It's beautiful.
http://www.koausa.org/VParimoo
http://www.ikashmir.org/Nature
\_ No one is going to nuke anyone over a "beautiful valley".
\_ http://www.kashmirtimes.com/latest.htm
\_ Nice to find such a clearly un-biased source of information.
Does anybody have a source OTHER than <DEAD>kashmir.com<DEAD> and
http://kashmirtimes.com? Perhaps a BBC fact file or something from
the Economist?
\_ Yeah, because the BBC is so unbiased
\_ I did say "perhaps". Can I get you to volunteer a source
my sardonic and as yet not very helpful friend?
\_ I get all my facts from the BBC. My mind is now clear
of all bias. Truth is a beautiful thing. I now have
A Beautiful Mind.
\_ how come nobody mentions the section of Kashmir that is controlled
by the Chinese?
\_ It is in the Himalayas and is worthless and has no inhabitants.
\_ And it's controlled by the Chinese who neither India nor
Pakistan is capable of going to war against because they'd just
get crushed and make an excuse for the Chinese to move south. |
| 2002/5/22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:24910 Activity:insanely high |
5/21 I said a while ago this Pakistan/India thing was going nuclear...
here's some more "fuel for the fire" as they say.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-303716,00.html
\_ "The Pakistanis, who are considered better troops, would
beat off the initial offensive"
The Paks have one of the worst military corps in the
world. They have lost every major encounter to India
despite more modern weapons and training.
And who do these diplomats think they are anyway? They
should just butt out and let India solve the problem.
\_ I believe the proper derogatory is "Paki."
\_ The problem? You mean the problem with the crazy psycho indians
butchering muslims en masse over some stupid temple site that
never belonged to the indians in the first place? That problem?
Or the one where the indian government is interferring on a daily
basis with the lives of muslims in kashmir who are 99% peasants
who would be perfectly happy to just be left alone on their
rock strewn farms? That problem? The indians are going to get
nuked. They've earned it.
\_ Yeah. Indians have earned it alright. Let's not forget
that in '48-49 the Paks butchered hindus and sikhs
and sent back their body parts in train cars. Let's
not forget the Pak attrocities of the '71 war or of the
the Kargil war. (Muslims attrocities towards hindus
go back further than this, but we'll leave that out)
The current kashmir problem was started by Pak funded
plo/hamas style "operations". India has every right to
defend itself against Pak aggression.
The temple site that you mention is fairly important
to many hindus. How long do you think it would take
muslims to tear down a church or synagouge in mecca?
\_ So you think it's ok that people not even born in 48 or
71 get butchered today because of what happened then?
And then you try to equate muslims trying to live in
peace in a muslim area with hamas? you're nuts. The
temple site is no mecca. They're a bunch of whackos.
\_ Sadly, it also means the Pakistanis are going to get nuked.
The world will finally see what happens when two nuclear
powers decide to annihilate each other. It's going to be a
fucking nightmare. -mice
\_ Not if India strikes first and destroy all of Pakistans
25 warheads.
\_ This is laughable. They stand zero chance of
taking out 3 dozen nukes with their 5 dozen nukes.
Neither of them has enough firepower to do any such
thing. We're not talking the US/Soviets during the
cold war with 25,000+ warheads each. These clowns
have *maybe* 150 between them which is only just
enough to seriously fuck each other up real real bad.
\_ Only if you're Pakistani or Indian and depending on the
winds and fallout levels a neighboring nation. The rest
of us get the benefits of lots of emergency/experimental
medical procedures practiced on other people and it'll be
a big boon for the construction and cleanup companies here
and in Europe & Japan. Too bad about the tea though.
\_ There's no danger of a nuclear winter? And who is going
to pay the cleanup companies?
\_ 1: no. they dont have enough nukes between them to
make a nuclear summer. 2: your tax dollars, duh.
\_ 2: Exactly my point. We won't benefit from it
because even though they use our cleanup
companies, they use our money to pay for it.
\_ Ah, so human life has no value...
\_ Dude, you've bee soooo bated. Ouch.
\_ Heh I thought the "too bad about the tea" was a
big give away. I'll try harder to make it more
obvious next time. :-)
\_ It does. It's something like $96 in chemicals and
water. Hardly anything worth getting upset about. |
| 2002/4/26-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Science/Space] UID:24610 Activity:nil |
4/26 http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20020425.html Cringely's baby son dead. SIDS. \-well at least bill gates seems to allocate is humanitarian dollars intelligetly. i dont see why there isnt a "mkt solution" to this when he says "nobody will benefit from this, pls donate to my cause". something like the lbl cheap UV-based water filter. see e.g. http://www.lbl.gov/wonder/gadgil-2.html is a much better cause. --psb \_ Bill Gates = PR and a job for his dad. |
| 2002/2/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23948 Activity:high |
2/21 "BUSH'S VIETNAM"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&u=/020221/7/14zdw.html
\_ Ted Rall should stick to drawing mediocre comic strips. Or see
somebody about getting his medication changed. |
| 2001/12/31 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23416 Activity:very high |
12/30 Indians only days away from full mobility. Pakistan mobile now and
might launch first strike. Both sides moving missiles near front.
Stop deleting this. Nuclear war is just as important as an arcade
in the South bay: a post you didn't delete.
\_ personally, i never delete posts, but i can see their point.
there are thousands of news sources out there a click away
with every different viewpoint, language, and depth of detail,
and hundreds of places this can be debated online. political threads
like this on the motd usually end up as heated debates of very
long posts between just two people, which are not fun to read.
since most of us read the motd for fun, that means your post
sucks.
\_ A nuclear conflict there might not be so bad. Their limited
capability means the damage will be constrained within
Asia. A war can semi-permanently set back both countries and
possibly China, which might not be a bad thing. India, although
currently it pretends to be pro-US, eventually will become a bigger
threat with a more functional government and military and less
fondness for western ideas.
\_ Not so bad? You are such a humanitarian...
\_ Yawn. This has been going on in Korea for 50 years.
\_ Hey, thanks for the news! Now that the motd's turned into World
News Now, I don't have to go to the effort of firing up my Web
browser. Now, *does* anyone have the address of a good arcade in
the South Bay? If we're all going to be annihilated in a nuclear
firestorm, I wanna go out having the most fun that a CS major can
have! |
| 2001/12/31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23409 Activity:nil |
12/30 India & Pakistan edge ever closer to war. URLs everywhere, go to
your favorite news service. |
| 2001/12/22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23351 Activity:nil |
12/2 India and Pakistan on edge of war. This is looking more serious
than previous sable rattling. I guess sending suicide commandos to
wipe out the other side's parliament can get them a bit ticked off.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001570014-2001583290,00.html |
| 2001/11/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:23051 Activity:moderate |
11/14 The Jews did it with inside help from the CIA, coordination from Elvis
on the mothership hidden behind the moon and Bigfoot was there on the
ground in his invisibility suit painting the targets with lasers.
http://www.paknews.com/main.php?id=7&date1=2001-11-04
\_ but what about the reverse-vampires?
\_ Who told you about the reverse-vampires? Now you'll have to die.
\_ did anyone here besides me read Thrasher magazine in the
early 90's? there were alot of funny letters from vampire
skaters. ah the good old days. |
| 2001/9/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/India, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:22496 Activity:very high |
9/17 Can anyone give a brief (<1 page) description (biased or not) or url
of why Russia wanted control over Afghanistan for so long?
\_ They wanted to then take Pakistan, warm water port in the Indian
Ocean.
\_ With the US sphere of influence decreased because of the Iranian
revolution they jumped at the chance of increasing their sphere
of influence in the Region.
\_ Because 1) Brezhnev was an idiot. 2) Not Russia particularly but USSR
was willing to offer economic and military help to all anti-US,
populist, socialist, or communist governments around the world
(e.g. Cuba, Nicaragua, Vietnam, etc). With Afganistan Brezhnev went
too far and ordered military invasion. Russians quickly found their
Vietnam in Afganistan and were forced to pull out of this country in
the late 80s mostly because of protests at home.
\- largest deposit of Scandium inthe world. --psb
\_ "protest at home" in a communist country? And the govt actually
let them live? And listened to them?
\_ Little old ladies carrying pictures of their sons as I recall.
\_ Well, that was in the late 1980s during the glastnost and
perestroika at which point freedom of speech was being encouraged
by Gorbachev's government.
\_ By the way, does anyone remember the title of the movie about a
Russian tank crew that got lost in Afganistan?
\_ Probably "The Beast" (1998) with Jason Patric of The Lost Boys fame
--ulysses
\_ Rambo III ? |
| 2001/9/12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Others] UID:36282 Activity:nil |
9/12 Something to think about:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb-050es.html
Not that this changes the fact that we should nuke everything
from palestine to pakistan and be done with the muslim menace
\_ That's right, if i remember my Bible correctly, didn't
Christ himself give the thumbs up to eye-for-an-eye argument?
\_ You're not remembering it correctly. Try reading it again.
He advocated "turning the other cheek."
\_ irony
Killing all brown people in the world is the best and only
solution. And don't forget to nuke Indonesia and Turkey while
solution. And don't forget to nuke Malaysia and Turkey while
you're at it.
\_ Idiots like gandhi who believed that "an eye for an eye
makes the whole world blind" are the reason we are in
this situation. The fruits of years of diplomacy and
concilliation and consideration were reaped yesterday.
Now is the time for action not moderation and compassion.
\_ HAHAHAHHHHH!!! When have we EVER had a single DAY
of concilliation or consideration in our foreign policy?
Read up on Chile, El Salvador, Iraq, et al. It's sentiment
like this that keeps Kissinger out of the Hague.
\_ Our policy of toleration of egypt, syria, jordan,
iraq, iran, the sudan, wimpiness in korean and
vietnam, detente are all the result of "diplomats".
If we had trusted our military leaders, we would
not be in this situation now.
\_ You're right. We'd be neck deep in blood and no
better off. |
| 2001/9/12 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:22404 Activity:high |
9/12 Bush to declare a Jihad against Mohammedian terrorism!
\_ Motd poll: Should we "nuke and pave" everything between
jerusalem and kashmir (ie the 90% of the muslim world)
in order to solve this problem forever?
\_ that wouldn't have stopped oklahoma city or the Tokyo sarin
gas attack.
\_ By this problem, I mean the muslim terrorist jihad
problem. I think that we can deal with the other
problems as law enforcement issues. This is bigger
than law enforcement. The muslim race is threat to
peace, freedom and civilization and must be eliminated
from the face of the earth.
problem.
peace, freedom and civilization and must be destroyed.
problems as law enforcement issues, but this problem
is bigger than law enforcement. The muslim race is
threat to peace, freedom, prosperity and civilization
and must be eliminated from the face of the earth.
\_ You need to nuke Indonesia, Malaysia, Borneo and
parts of Singapore and Philippines too.
\_ We need to nuke Indonesia, Malaysia, Borneo and
parts of Singapore and Philippines too. Oh, and
don't forget India.
don't forget India and its 100 million mullahs!
\_ India?
\_ India? You mean Pakistan?
\_ And the Hsinjiang (sp?) province in China too.
YES: .
NO: ..
\_ Wow, chamberlain lives!
\_ Don't be an idiot. |
| 2001/8/8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:22049 Activity:insanely high |
8/8 "Till caste do us apart...": http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/08/india.teenagers/index.html \- article which focus on these kinds of anomalous behavior really distort external perception of a community. If the only news someone got of life in the american south were stories of lynchings, cross burnings, and black men dragged along the street by good old boys in pickup trucks, you would certainly get a wildly innaccurate view of what life was like in the south. --psb \_ how come you aren't "ok tnx"ing people anymore? \_ Actions, not birth, dictates ones caste. Those who fail to see this are doomed to commit acts such as the ones mentioned in this article. Neither the killed nor the killers acted in a manner consistent with being a Brahmin. \_ Birth dictates caste in all the sources I've seen. It's institutionalized, religious racism. Trying to deny that is rewriting history. rewriting history. Your attempts at rationalizing it don't get around the central issue. How does one enter the higher caste? Only through the acceptance of that caste? Unlikely. Maybe they would and maybe they wouldn't, but clearly the theory goes that depending on your actions you are reborn into the different caste. There is no possible way you can spin that to my satisfaction. Blacks may be reborn as whites as long as they act like whites enough, and if they're really white, maybe they'll be accepted by the whites as an honorary white. Until then, the blacks should accept their sacred roles as ho's, crack dealers, and rappers. With enough religious trappings, it probably works better than apartheid. After all, religion is the most proven form of mind control. \_ What is the "Jat" caste? \_ Probably an untouchable. \- have you ever though of not flapping your \- you are jumping to conclusions. "jat" probably in this context means caste, but it can also be a generic term for class or kind. it can also be a root for "best", mean a birth. it is the root of a lot of difficult to translate words and expressions. --psb \_ Actions in previous life dictate birth in next. \_ It is obvious you know very little about indian religion or scripture. The characteristics of caste are clearly described in the Gita and Krshna states that those who adhere to the rules of a given caste verily become members of that caste. There are several examples in the stories of the Upanishads, the lives of the Alvars and the Ramayana. Consider the case of Viswamithra, although we has born a warrior, he ultimately transcended that nature to become a Brahmarishi (the highest type of Brahmin). Also you may wish to consider the life and teachings of Sri Ramanuja whose greatest teacher was a man from the "lowest" caste, illustrating that caste is meaningless for true devotees of the lord. Ramanuja readily converted people from all castes and made them Brahmins with the only requirement being that they live as Brahmins live. BTW, Ramanuja lived over a thousand years ago so you can't tell me that this is a new development. \_ Is that why there are so many fake "brahmin" arseholes around? - a Brahmarishi. \_ On average achieving this title takes several hundred thousand years of meditiation. Not even psb is that old. \_ You are wrong. For some, enlightenment comes in a flash. \_ I don't know what you mean by fake brahmins. The vast majority of brahmins you meet are not related to Ramanuja's followers (Iyengars, of which there are less than a million world wide). In fact most traditional brahmins don't like Iyengars because they have revolutionary ideas like non discrimination based on caste or creed. \_ So all these born "brahmins" are not necessarily true brahmins? Otherwise, how do you explain the number of arseholes among them? |
| 2001/7/20 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:21884 Activity:very high |
7/19 Yet more people with too much time on there hands:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010719/wl/india_bush_s_cat_1.html
\_ Is India even called "India" in India? --PeterM
\_ Sure, they all speak English anyway (there's no one "Indian"
language.) The word comes from the Indus River, or Sindhu,
also the word Hindu, and Hindustan. But it's irrelevant;
they seem to think it's insulting on the principle, like
if you named a pet dogshit France, even though the French
don't call themselves France.
\_ Bharath is the real name for "India". Hindu is also not
a indian word, it is a arabic term invented by muslim
invaders.
\_ Are they suggesting that our pres should get a lion instead?
\_ ^t a^t eaten by a |
| 2001/7/9 [Computer/SW/Security, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:21740 Activity:nil |
7/8 Speaking of M$, Any thoughts on why MSFT can't seem to get their
instant messanger service running?
I would think that with a co like MSFT the backup redundency
would basically mean they can crash the entire system and it
would still work within a day when they activate the mirror
service sitting in line india or something-- but they have just
been dead for a week now... |
| 2001/6/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:21559 Activity:nil |
6/18 [References to Vietnam censored] |
| 2001/1/29-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:20463 Activity:high |
1/29 How come whenever a big earthquake happens in a country, it always
takes several days before other countries start to send rescue teams
to help out? (Turkey, Taiwan, India, ...) Don't they realize most of
the trapped would be dead by then?
\_ Because they don't have rescue teams sitting around doing nothing
but waiting to leave the instant a quake hits. Because it takes
12-24 hours to fly to the other side of the world. Because going
\_ Uh. Nations cannot be affluent. Citizens can be affluent.
\_ Uh. Both can.
\_ Uh, no bitch.
\_ Win a lot of arguments?
\_ The wester dictionary uses it in the example:
<our affluent society>
in before the local government asks for help is an act of war.
Because you just don't have the brain cells to comprehend.
\_ But somehow those rescue teams have time to talk to the press
and post for pictures.
and pose for pictures.
\_ Strangely, the United States and Japan (two of the more
affluent nations in the world) sent a whopping $1 million
to help out in the disaster.
\_ ah yes, and Bill Gates who is worth over 60 billion dollars
donates a WHOPPING 1 million dollar to the AIDs research,
paid over a period of 3 years. What a philanthropist he is.
\- maybe he thinks there are bigger priorities than
AIDS research ... which is after all quite heavily funded
by the US govt. --psb
\_ Bill donates quite a bit more to other causes and has
said he is leaving most of his fortune to charity when
he dies, not his kids.
\_ Bill Gates owes you nothing.
\_ I thought it was 100 million and I agree he owes you
nothing.
\_ he owes me the $300 he grifted on the POS products
he sold me in the last 2 decades (plus tax and
compounding interest in the Nasdaq). In total,
he owes me several thousand dollars.
\_ I wasn't aware that the Nasdaq paid compounding
interest. Maybe you would have bought high
and sold low....
\_ No, those are RELIEF planes not a military invasion! Really!
\_ "We'd like you to help, but the runways are sorta broken to
pieces right now.... Please don't try to land, our hospital
space is overcommitted already."
\_ "...so maybe you could just sorta' crash your planes in some
open space somewhere near the epicenter, and we can, you know,
salvage what we need from the wreckage..." |
| 2001/1/17-19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Finance/Investment] UID:20355 Activity:moderate |
1/17 Next dot com demise-- WebVan. News at 11.
\_ tell us more... or tell http://fuckedcompany.com
\_ WebVan still has over $100 million in the bank, it's not
near doom yet. There are questions about its viability in
the mid-term. -tom
\_ Put your money down. Sell short.
\_ peon investors can't short stocks trading below $5. -tom
\_ peeon investors can't short stocks trading below $5. -tom
\_ well, not entirely true. between $1 and $5, you just
have lowered margin requirements. below $1, your
statement is true. (so it's still true for WBVN) |
| 2000/12/22-27 [Consumer/GPS, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:20160 Activity:low |
12/22 I am going on a trip to India soon. Any recommendation for
an inexpensive but decent GPS? I will also use it for future
trekking and hiking trip, both foreign and domestic.
\- see http://joe.mehaffey.com and the sat-nav news group. you can
probably get a faily basic one for $100-150. you canb also search the
walllogs. these days i think you are basically paying for storage
capacity and some users features ... not so much accuracy or
sensitivity. --psb
\_ Garmin G12 was $150 2 years ago, will do anything you need. Newer
Etrex model is half the size, same sort of pricing.
\_ Magellan 310 on sale at Fry's for $89.95. Also, if you have
one of the higher level Palms, you can get a GPS attachment
for $130 or so.
\- one additional comment: i think GPSes are still pretty primitive
in terms of user interface and are still geek toys. are you sure
disposable income not to worry about a $100 here or there].--psb
you want one? most geeks into geek toys tend to want the ones
with all the features and not the low end ones [and have the
disposable income not to worry about a $100 here or there].
they also suck a lot of batteries, often dont work that well under
tree cover without an ext antenna, so if you dont make a serious
commitment to them, might not be worth taking at all. as with
almost all consumer electronics, tomorrow it will be better and
cheaper. --psb, former Garmin III+ owner recently return from india |
| 2000/10/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others, Recreation/Media] UID:19563 Activity:high |
10/25 What exactly is "B-Movie"? Thx.
\_ 2 interpretations: Budget Movie (low budget)
or a movie they show for free when you see the A movie.
\_ Sorry, what's "A movie" then?
\_ the movie you paid for (like when cartoons were free
because you paid for the main movie.)
\_ a movie is a motion picture. duh.
\_ The general usage (in the States) is "Shitty, low budget
film". A corrolary to that is the increasingly popular
"DTV--Direct To Video". --sowings
\_ A very, very nice "new wave" band...sorta dark-sounding.
Also, see the films of John Waters or Roger Corman,
and maybe the live-action version of The Guyver.
\_ McGuyver?
\_ in some asian countries, A means Adult (porn)
\_ I thought that was H as in Hentai, not A as in Adult.
B doesn't have any significance (AFAIK), but R usually
means Romance.
\_ you mean it DOESNT mean "boobs"?
\_ you would think this if you interpreted
"some asian countries" as only refering to japan
\_ Okay, I am a ignorant American, what countries
does this refer to?
\_ Japan, Indonesia and Pakistan only.
\_ India isn't a Asian country but Pakistan
is? Confirms what I knew all along, Indians
are really WHITE not ASIAN.
\_ Indians aren't white, they are Aryan /
indo-European (I think). In general, they
are quite dark. |
| 2000/8/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:18994 Activity:high |
8/15 Another india-related question. So why are some indians veggie-eaters
while others are meat-eaters? Is it because of caste? The higher
up you go the more meat you consume?
\_ Don't be stupid. It's a free country, too.
\_ Uh. Wrong.
\_ But meat there is not free.
\_ Being stupid shouldn't be free either, please send me $10
\_ The higher up you go the less meat you consume. Brahmin's consume
no meat.
\_ Eat more cows, save the atmosphere. -John |
| 2000/8/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:18989 Activity:very high |
8/14 Is it ok to ask an indian guy/gal what his/her caste is? Or is that
considered a taboo topic? I'm just curious about what this person's
pecking order is back in india.
\- i think it is pretty tacky. might be ok if you know the person
pretty well and are talking about "growing up in india" or something
like that, but other i dont think you should. you can however often
tell from the last name. --psb
\_ Esp. south indian last names and some north indian names.
\_ Brahmin. Trust me.
\_ Yeah Brahmin's are at the top. They are the best! - Brahmin.
\_ brahmin, kshtryia, vishia, shudra, where brahmin's are on top.
Some basic rules are:
1. Upgrades are available only for women via marriage. A lower
caste woman marrying an upper caste man gets upgraded to the
man's caste. (This is a progressive rule that is not yet
accepted by orthodox hindus)
2. Upgrades are not available for men. A lower caste man
marrying an upper caste woman, downgrades the woman's caste.
3. Downgrades are always possible based on behavior (ie being
born into a caste does not qualify you for permanent membership
in that caste). If your behavior deviates from the norm for your
caste you will be downgraded, usually to untouchable which is
lower than the lowest. (This is a generally accepted rule by
all but the most bigoted and orthodox brahmins)
\_ Are you a brahmin?
\_ yes. -tjb
\_ [lengthy un-asked-for crap deleted]
I believe that psb is right, most of the people in India are not
brahmins and are pretty sensitive about this fact. Many of the
people you'll meet in this country are brahmins (at least by birth)
so they won't be as sensitive. In the past only brahmins had the
qualifications to immigrate to this country in large numbers, but
in recent years that's changed.
\_ You are an idiot. Most intelligent people from India that
I had met don't care about their former caste. Currently
in India itself it is very advantageous to be one of the
lower castes because there is affirmative action for them.
It is currently next to impossible to enroll in a good
university as a Brahmin or a Shatria.
\- this is misleading. --psb
\_ I am getting this straight from my indian
friends. Where do you get your information,
psb?
\- this last comment really isnt true. immigrants from
differnt parts of india and at differnt periods of time
have had very differnt characteristics. e.g. since the 60s
most of the bengalis [men] are civil/mech/electrical
engineers. there was also a large influx of indian doctors
starting in teh 70s. this is not at all true of the people
from say the punjab are who came over in the earlier part of
the century ... i believe many of them worked in the agri-
cultural sector. --psb
\_ Are you a brahmin?
\_ i think he's from a uniquely american caste known
as "admin".
\_ Generally those of a lower uid are of higher caste.
\_ that's because of their closeness to
God^H^H^Hroot^H^H^H^Hnirvana |
| 2000/3/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:17892 Activity:very high |
3/30 I don't necessarily have a problem with affirmative action,
but I think it's strange that some companies have affirmative
action programs AND claim not to discriminate based on race.
Affirmative action specifically discrimates in favor of certain
races for an allegedly good cause, but it still discriminates.
It seems like these companies should either say the have
affirmative action progromas or say they don't discriminate
based on race but not both. What do other people think? I
am missing something or do most corporations and universities
have contradictory policies?
\_ If a particular race maintains a percentage of the population
in general and a company tries to maintain that same representation
in its work force, is that discrimination, or just attempting to
keep the playing field equal?
\_ If society maintains an unfair playing field by not providing
funding towards lower income communities so we get a perminant
lower class since they have no opportunity for education and
thus no chance at a decently paying job, where would you try
and create equal footing for all? Give more money to schools
and social programs, have hiring preferences for unqualified
individuals or build prisions?
\_ Such companies can be sued (likely successfully) for discrimination.
\_ Welcome to New Thought as created and promoted by the whacky left.
It doesn't have to make sense, just make rich white people feel
better about themselves at the expense of others. It also keeps
the blacks from rioting too often.
\_ do you believe in AA based on income? or childhood
living conditions?
\_ I thought AA was a great thing. It helped me get over my
alcholism. There should be an anonymous club for every other
controlled substance.
\_ Only merit should differentiate people.
\_ how come white people with less merit before AA got the jobs?
\_ though I commiserate with the sentiment, I think this point
is, at best, specious without some kind of justification.
\_ I don't see any 'sentiment' here, just a racist remark.
\_ If you see a racist remark, then you see a sentiment.
Learn the language before you try to split hairs.
\_ I'm just saying that it's hard to call it an
egalitarian society if the system is in any way
biased against a significant portion of the
population.
\_ Of course it is. I am more biased against blacks
than whites because blacks robbed me and beat me up
a lot more often than whites. I am merely learning
from data. Would you rather I _wasn't_ biased against
them? And don't give me this 'they are products of
an unfavorable environment' shit. People have free
\_ Your views on war are somewhat naive. The idea in war is
to destroy your opponents will and ability to fight by any means
necessary. If a high body count lands you this goal, great.
Realistically, though, a high body count is very unlikely to
be sufficient. Look at Vietnam: the US killed something like
10 times as many people as it sustained in casualties. But
the NVA were still willing to fight, long after American
determination petered out due to POLITICAL and SOCIAL pressures.
\_ [vietnam crap deleted] oops. sorry.
will. They are not products of their environment.
Some just choose to be nasty.
\_ Yer walking home in the middle of the night and
you see a group of
(1) young black men in dark puffy jackets
\_ actually, you shouldn't feel ashamed about this
stereotype. I was in a hurry to see my
friend one saturday evening and pay him back the
money i owed him ($40). I passed a bunch of
young black men in dark puffy jackets, although my
first instinct was to hang back and let them
walk ahead. Anyhow, I pass them, I hear a bunch
respect. I made up my mind about
such people on a case by case basis.
But if forced to generalized about
of snickers behind me, didn't pay attention to it.
Anyhow...I get to the darkness of the bridge
at Moffitt Library, and suddenly hear rapid
footsteps behind me and I realize I am totally
fucked. Before I have a chance to turn around
these same fuckers that I passed, one of them
puts an armlock around my neck and demands
my money. and you know the rest...
what makes me angry is that they laughed when
they left, and i had to deal with a sore neck
from getting choked really hard and the
shitty task of canceling all my credit cards.
and of course the feeling of being violated..
i was already in a pissed off mood. and
this happened at 10:30 p.m., northside...
be especially careful during summer folks,
and pay attention to those stereotypes, they're
not entirely a bad thing....
(2) young, bald white men in torn leather jackets
and spiky hair
\_ How can you be bald and have spiky hair
at the same time? Sounds like a good
depiction of Cafe Berlin.
(3) computer geeks
I think it's safe to say that most white people
fear 1 > 2, and most black people fear 2 > 1.
I think the poster above is white.
\_ That's an extremely ego-centric and short sighted
view point that sounds much too focused on self-pity
to be real. Are you trolling?
\_ I am not trolling. I care about myself more
than about people who beat me up. I am sorry
if this is perceived as ego-centric.
-- original poster
\_ *sigh* Ever heard of objectivity? It's
kind of useful when devising laws that apply
to _everyone_ and not just your victimized
little self.
\_ I thought it was blacks who were bitching
about being 'victimized.' I am not bitching
I am just telling you why _I_ personally
discriminate against blacks.
\_ Two wrongs don't make a right? *shrug*
I still think I'm being trolled, but
whatever. You might want to learn
how to format your motd posts
correctly, though.
\_ It really isn't a troll. I have
worked with intelligent, successful
black people, whom I admire and
respect. I have made up my mind
about such people on a case by case
basis.
But if forced to generalize about
blacks as a whole, my view will be
negative, based on my past
experiences with blacks as a whole.
\_ You have experience with blacks as
a whole? Wow. How much time did
it take to meet all of them. Or
did you mean that you had
experience with a statistically
significant random subset of
blacks?
\_ I generalize data that I have.
If there is more data, I will
change my opinion, if the data
tells me to. If you don't
like my opinion argue with my
data.
\_ Actually, it sounds more real than troll to me.
It has a thread of logic.
\_ Were they right-handed or left-handed? Surely
you're more biased against righties or lefties as a
result, right?
\_ The aforementioned acts were committed by blacks
far more often than is warranted by the relative
percentage of blacks in the general population.
\_ actually, it's historically backed.
\_ What is historically backed? This 'sentiment' is not
even semantically valid. Less merit than who?
\_ Less merit than who?
\_ what about white only bathrooms?
\_ What about green-only trolls?
\_ <SARCASM>
It's not right to kill people, but in war the idea is to kill
as many people as possible. What do other people thing? Am
I missing something or does society have contradictory mores?
</SARCASM> (Markup was necessary to reduce further confusion.)
\_ [vietnam crap deleted] Oops. Missed the sarcasm. Sorry.
\_ Short answer: It's not federally-defined "discrimination" if
it's affirmative action. The word when used in HR policy has
the federal meaning.
\_ i.e. "Welcome to New Thought as created and promoted by the
whacky left. It doesn't have to make sense, just make rich
white people feel better about themselves at the expense
of others. It also keeps the blacks from rioting too
often."
\_ Notice that short answer was more fact than opinion based.
\_ Notice that the short answer obsequiously (or
perhaps conspiratorially) accepts that the government
can redefine english words in whatever way happens
to fit thier political agenda or best obscures
(contradicts) reality despite all/any reason.
\_ ^redefine^add a legal definition to
Please reflect on the relative benefit of AA in
the 1960s and whether AA is a successful policy
today, in 50 words or less.
\_ The benefit (or lack) of AA is irrelevant to
*my* criticism of the perversion of the
language. What is so damn hard about
actually saying/writing what is meant? That
society has a "legal definition" of a word
that is actually contradictory to the
original definition is an obvious sign of
intellectual/legal dishonosty and/or sloth.
\_ I agree. This is the point I was addressing
when I started the thread. Whether or not
AA is good is independant of the fact that
Equal Opportunity statements are contradictory
to AA. Does anyone have a response to this
abuse of language issue? I'm not trolling.
It's just that the AA policy and the
Equal Opprutnity statements which every
organization makes seem blatantly
contradictory. When something that seems
so obviously wrong is accepted without
question it makes me wonder if I'm missing
an important point. Therefore, I would like
to see a response or URL making the case
for the other side of the issue. Thanks.
\_ Please reflect on why it's okay for black
people to make jokes about black people
and white people, but not okay for white
people to joke about black people, in
50 words or less. |
| 1998/5/29-30 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:14153 Activity:moderate |
5/29 Stupid move by India. Supposedly they're a year away from fitting
a nuclear warhead to a missile. Someone's gonna get nuked. -mlee
\_ Didn't Pakistan just announce yesterday they already have a nuke
missile ready and aimed at India?
\_ Meanwhile 500 people die in India from the heat.
\_ and a couple hundred million others don't have enough to eat
\_ Why do you think they feel such a need to expand? --dim
\_ they don't go hungry for lack of land, the causes
are political
\_ I can't think of a quicker way to get rid of excess population
than a little nuclear war. I say let them have at it! We
shoulda saved them the trouble and just sold them the nukes.
\_ only 500? In a country of 1+ billion, who noticed? |
| 1998/3/24 [Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:13856 Activity:insanely high |
3/24 I know some Indian friends who are BIG AND BUFF like football players,
and some even have blue/hazzle eyes. I sware they almost look white!!!
\_ swear
Why are a lot of Indians like that? (this is a serious question!)
\_ Mutations as a result of the massive radiation and pollution
released by British experiments on the fusion reactor from an
alien starship that crash-landed in the Ganges River valley during
the winter of 1945.
\_ That's right. In fact, the reason that they decided to make
India independent wasn't Gandhi . . . During the course of their
experiments, they created a hole in the space-time continuum
that threatened to SWALLOW THE ENTIRE BRITISH EMPIRE WHOLE!
The only way to avoid this was to make sure that India was no
longer a part of the British Empire. That way, if the hole
expanded beyond their control, India would be lost, but the
Empire would be safe. Hail Brittania!
\_ is it just me or does the motd get dumber every day? -aspo
\_Would you like to see Brittania rule again, my friend?
All you have to do is follow the worms.
\_ Brittania rules the waves! |
| 11/22 |