3/29    Indiana, racist?
        http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/indiana-student-sparks-outrage-video-mocking-asians-article-1.1282920
        \_ Everyone is racist. Even you, I bet.
           \_ heil hitler!

11/9    I just noticed that the English Wikipedia page for Gangnam Style is
        four times as long as the Korean page.
        \_ It probably needs more explanation here.  But maybe Korean is 4x
           as dense as English anyway?

2/29    "U.S. announces diplomatic breakthrough with North Korea"
        http://www.csua.org/u/vmc (news.yahoo.com)
        The Kim's threatening has once again worked.

2/24    "How the U.S. Could Pressure North Korea Tomorrow: Quit the $100 Bill"
        http://www.csua.org/u/vkl (news.yahoo.com)

7/22    What's the quick rule to determine if a Korean name is male or
        female? I'd hate to address Mr/Ms incorrectly. For example, is
        Ji Hoon a male or female name? What about He Joon? Does "joon"
        have any gender connotation?
        \_ That's like asking a non-English speaker about difference
           between John and Jane.  There's no quick rule that can be
           applied.  I suppose there is a long list of rules that can
           be applied, but I'm not going to come up with it.  He-Joon
           is almost certainly a female name.  Ji-Hoon is a bit vague.
           I'd guess male, but I can't say for sure.  Joon has no
           connotation.  "He-Joon" is female, but "Kang-Joon" is likely
           male.
           \_ "Jayne" and "Jean".  God help you if you don't actually
              see it spelled in the original language.
        \_ I don't think there is an easy way, you just have to put your
           hand down there and check.
           \_ Not sure that is sufficient in these days of EZMode xgender
              operations.
        \_ There's no good way.  Even Koreans have trouble with this.  When
           I was in Korea the Koreans would write a designation of male
           or female when writing a name on the board at a meeting to clear
           this up.  As the above poster said, some names do become obvious
           when you get used to either the patterns, but some don't. -jrleek

11/2    Koreans don't like foreigners:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/world/asia/02race.html?_r=1
        \_ Me either man.  Good food tho.

9/2     "Freed reporters say they were dragged into NKorea - Yahoo! News:"
        http://www.csua.org/u/oyx

7/8     "Officials: N. Korea believed behind cyber attacks"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090708/ap_on_re_as/as_skorea_cyber_attack

5/26    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8067711.stm
        WAR

5/10    A Quite good article about the financial crisis:
        http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

5/10    A Quite good article about the financial crises:
        http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice

4/3     "North Korea Perfects Its Diplomatic Game: Brinkmanship"
        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/world/asia/03korea.html
        Any chance that those two American journalists are actually working
        *for* North Korea in a hoax?

3/4     you'd think there would be a way to end north korea.
        we wouldm't even have to clean up.  We could make South Korea
        do it!
        \_ South Korea doesn't want to clean up North Korea's mess
           either.
        \_ Any suggestions?
        \_ there was an article on Forign Affair stated that China essentially
           has set up a "shadow government skeleton" within China so in case
           of total collapse China can implant them in.  Again, it is not in
           China's, nor South Korean's interest to see the total collapse of
           N.Korea just because they have to deal with millions of refugees.
           USA, on the other hand, doesn't give a crap and just want to see
           the regime go away.

2/28    SK Prez attempts to crush free speech, MBC posts on youtube
        (Note, the first 30s or so are in Korean, then English, Chinese,
        French, Spanish, and Japanese)
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKcXOUohin0&feature=related

1/9     Korea's version of "Angry SysAdmin" arrested for "spreading false
        rumors".  http://csua.org/u/n8d
        Lee Myung-bak (current SK prez) is completely bonkers. -jrleek

12/19   Woo-hoo! Brawl in the SK parliament!
        http://csua.org/u/n5b
        http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/19/world/asia/19korea.html?em

12/18   You know why US economy is messed up? North Korean SUPERNOTES.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdollar
        http://www.slate.com/id/2124884
        Throughout WW2, Germany produced supernotes to ruin the
        British/US economy. N Korean is doing the very same thing today.
        \_ Seriously?  You believe this crap?
           \- pakistan has flooded places like nepal with high denomination
              fake indian rupees and they they are often not accepted.

11/22   http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/22/news/economy/Bush_APEC
        Bush pushes for free trade, allowing unskilled and uneducated work
        to move to overseas so that unskilled and uneducated Americans
        can get better education in community college where they can be
        productive again in corporations like Walmart and McDonalds.

11/21   "The year 2025: Oil, dollar out; Russia, Islam in"
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081121/ap_on_go_ot/intel_trends
        (National Intelligence Council report)

10/9    Bush to roll over on North Korea:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_re_eu/eu_nuclear_nkorea_11

9/25    NK arcade!
        http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2008/09/inside-north-korean-arcade.html
        \_ I thought reporters and cameras are banned in N Korea? WTF

8/6     Pro-US rallies greet Bush in Seoul.
        http://csua.org/u/m12  (Blog w/ pics & vid and link to Rueters)
        Actually, when I was a missionary in SK, Bush made a visit
        (Feb 2002).  An odd fellow in the neighborhood brought us a cake
        to give to Bush.  I guess because we were the closest Americans he
        knew.  It said (in Korean) "Welcome Bush".  Anyway, we told him we
        couldn't give it to Bush, so he told us to eat it.  We did. -jrleek
        \_ Good to hear that Bush has done a good job of improving our
           image overseas.
        \_ You ate it?  Wow, you are VERY brave.  I would have assumed
           it was poisoned.
           \_ A) This was 2002. B) We knew the guy, he was harmless, just a bit
                 kooky. -jrleek
        \_ We forced them to import our beef again, and they still like us?
           It's not clear from the article what Bush did recently that more
           than offset the negative feeling from the beef issue.
           \_ My understanding is that the protests were less about beef,
              and more about the current SK prez, Lee Myung Bak.  The beef was
              just sort of a handy flashpoint. -jrleek
              Addendum: It was good flashpoint largely because Lee Myung Bak
              was being so high-handed about it and had terrible PR.
        \_ Can someone explain why beef import is such a touchy issue in Korea?
                -clueless
           \_ Again, my impression is that it wasn't that the beef was such a
              huge deal, it's that Lee Myung Pak is pissing everyone off.  He
              seems to think he's Park Chung-hee (The 1st military dictator.)
              My understanding is that it went something like this:
              Lee: We're importing beef again.
              A few protestors: Hey!
              Lee: Stupid poor people, always protesting.
              Everyone else: WTF?  Rawr!
        \_ I talked to my wife about this after I got home.  I had forgotten
           but Lee Myung Bak is/was a member of a VERY large church in Seoul.
           My wife guessed that a large chunk of the pro-US group was from that
           church and 'allied' churches. -jrleek

7/31    NK food crisis redux
        http://csua.org/u/lzp
        \_ Koreans have been doing this for so long
           that I don't give a shit anymore.

7/14    Source of the torture techniques used at Gitmo revealed to be...
        Chinese Torture Tactics from the Korean War:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.html

5/23    http://www.christiangunowner.com/handgun_shooting_stance.html
        URL says it all.
        \_ Ok?  Who cares?  What's your point?
           \_ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24818417  S Koreans hate US beef
              \_ Dude, there are protests in Korea all the time.  There's
                 always a protest going on somewhere over something. Farmers
                 against lowering food tariffs is a pretty normal one. -jrleek
                 \_ Is US beef shipped to S Korea cheaper than local Korean
                    beef?
                    \_ Yes.  S. Korea has little aritable land and mostly
                       small family farms.

2/28    I just found out N Korea has been printing superbills in an attempt
        to devaluate American dollars. What's scary about this is that
        the superbills are indistinguishable from real printed money.
        That is so fucked up. Damn you Kim Jong Il!
        \_ I doubt he was doing it just to devaluate US dollars.  It's not
           like he couldn't use the money.
        \_ BTW, does counterfeiting one currency have any effect on other
           currencies other than the exchange rates against the counterfeited
           currency?
           \- pakistan also counterfitted INR 500Rs rupee notes.
              i think it most you can cause problem in a small area.
              like this led to Rs 500 rupee notes not being accepted in
              nepal, but not that big a problem all over.
        \_ Probably more for the desperately needed foreign goods than
           to devalue the dollar.
        \_ They should start running the African Nigerian scam with a
           N Korea twist. They can profit from dumb ass greedy Americans
           while teaching Americans a lesson.

1/11    Separated-at-birth twins get married - Yahoo! News:
        http://www.csua.org/u/kgf
        \_ The part omitted is how they found out they were twins.
        \_ "Ewww you kiss like my mom!"
           \_ Doesn't this imply you kiss your mom the way you'd kiss a
              girlfriend?
           \_ "Your dick can reach inside me as deep as Daddy's."
        \_ Does IVF involve one egg or multiple eggs?
           \_ IVF generally involves multiple eggs.  It's expensive and hard
              on the mother, so they want to make sure at least 1 sticks.
              Anyway, I don't think these twins were convieved via IVF.
              \_ "Alton raised the case of the married twins -- who were born
                 after IVF treatment ......"
        \_ Oh, I wish my sis and I were separated at birth ......
           \_ Why, do you want to do her?
              \_ Why else!?
        \_ Sounds like something out of a Korean drama series...
           \_ Bahahahaha good one!

12/15   http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/15/military.gambling/index.html
        Military Slot Machines make $130mil/year from its soldiers to
        pay for things army can't pay for.
        \_ Our education system is paid for by lottery also.
        \_ This country is endlessly willing to take advantage of the
           weak/stupid --  witness our tolerance for predatory lending.
           And we don't even bother teaching people the financial
           ramifications in school anymore.  What's more, we even made
           bankruptcy more difficult.  Most people who end up in
           bankruptcy suffered from a medical emergency, or got
           divorced.  Now we make it even more difficult for such
           people to recover--in the name of more profit for the
           already rich.  What a generous Christian country we are!
           \_ Nice troll. Are you also against freedom to smoke and
              freedom to gamble?
                \_ How about being against manipulating nicotine levels
                   to hook people without informing that nicotine was
                   as addictive as heroin?  How about being against
                   not warning tobacco companies'
                   victims that smoking causes cancer and emphysema,
                   even if TC's knew it, but rather lying about those
                   even if TC's knew it knew it, but rather lying about those
                   two things?  How about setting up slot machines
                   with a .25 payout without saying so?  Are you glad
                   that Government forced regulation on industry in
                   those instances?  Now how about some regulations
                   on predatory lending?
           \_ "Predatory lending".  Pft.  Everything is right there in front
              of the people signing.  I didn't have a single finance class of
                \_ yes, but how many of them understand it and the real
                   ramifications?  Do you think it's OK for smart people
                   to take advantage of stupid ones?  Morally OK?
                   Granted, government can't protect stupid people
                   from themselves and all of the unscrupulous smart people,
                   but right now government is aiding and abetting the
                   bastards who're taking advantage of the stupid.  You know,
                   these contracts aren't really clear, they should read:
                   "I know I am signing a contract which is likely to
                    screw me over a few years down the road".
                   screw me over a few years down the road".  Much like
                   the warnings on cigarette labels:  "Warning:  product
                   causes cancer."
                   \_ Best Troll Evar!
              any sort K-12+College but I still managed to figure out that an
                \_ congratulations, you're not stupid!  Now how would you
                   feel if by a combination of having been born stupid
                   and having been taken advantage of by someone smarter
                   than you, that you lost your house?  Do you think that
                   some divine right exists for smart people to screw
                   stupid ones over?  Now, do you think you're smarter than
                   every possible bastard who would exploit your ignorance
                   in some area to dispossess you for his benefit?
              ARM is incredibly risky, *requires* a refi before the rates go
              up and managed to figure out that the 40 year historic lows in
              the lending market were not going to stay that way forever.
              That's a totally different issue from the bakruptcy laws, medical
              or divorce induced financial collapse, etc.  No one knows they're
              going to get sick but most people do have insurance and everyone
              knows they will get sick at some point.  Divorce laws are just
              broken.

8/6     wtf?
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_Death
        \_ Every so often I'm reminded why I keep reading the motd.  Thank you
           Motd.
        \_ Figures. It's not unexpected from the South Koreans.
        \_ I heard this a number of times in Korea, I've even heard a number
           of the explaniations given in the article. -jrleek

7/30    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/fit.nation/obesity.map
        Fattest states: The South.
        \_ Hmmm, let's see.  Diet high in fats.  Highest obesity rates....
           Eureka!  You've discovered the secret!  Wowerz!
           \_ Does the cheese explain Wisonsin?  Or was that Michigan?
           \_ I bet the heat also plays a part. It's too hot to want to
              be active outside. People just drive around everywhere with
              the AC on. White people are suited to live in shady forests,
              not sweltering suburbs.

7/14    Korean Researchers Develop Plastic Solar Cells:
        http://urltea.com/zd8 (chosun.com)

5/17    Korean trains in historic link-up
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6664091.stm
        Basically, SK pays NK $80mil for a for a symbolic train crossing.
        What the heck, SK?  Why do you continue to play the enabler? -jrleek
        \_ Not sure why YOU would care about SK. I'm Asian and even I
           don't really give a damn.
           \_ jrleek is married to a Korean woman, but this is irrelevant.
              Anyone interested in International Relations should give a
              damn about what happens with SK/NK. Fallout here will have
              repercussions on the region for decades. Wake up. (Also, cue
              stoopid jokes about International Relations.)
        \_ I think SK is on really good drugs.  It must be related to being
           a benevolent military dictatorship for so long.  I doubt SK
           is prepared to pull a West Germany and carry the terrible
           economy of NK around for decades after reunification.
        \_ same reason why US bail out Mexico Peso back in the 1990s.
           a complete collapse of a neighboring country is never a good
           thing... refugee is a bit painful to deal with.
           \_ There's also a lot of sentiment built up in SK about a possible
              reunification; many SK people still have relatives/ancestral
              homes on the NK side of the DMZ.
           \_ At least when I lived in Korea, refugee from NK was not
              a problem.  The tension between the two Koreas have gotten
              more relaxed, but it's much more difficult to cross a border of
              not just barbed wires, but minefields(in this article, it
              mentioned the need to clear out all the landmines) and soldiers
              with guns pointing at each other.  In the mid 80s, a NK family
              escaped to SK by sea, and they were made instant celebrities.
              The government provided them everything they need to get started,
              not to mention all of the TV shows they were on.  The father of
              the family made TV celebrity appearances for years after.  (Just
              to give you an idea of how rare it is for people to illegally
              cross the border.)  That said, there are many in Korea that has
              felt enmity against US and blame them for keeping the country
              divided despite the people's wishes.  I believe US still has a
              fair amount of military influence in SK, which doesn't help the
              anti-US sentiments.
              \_ Yeah, according to my wife, escapees used to get a lot of
                 money from the govt. and be minor celeberties.  Now there are
                 money from the govt. and be minor celebrities.  Now there are
                 too many to keep that up.  I haven't met many people who
                 think the US is keeping Korea divided, although many
                 (correctly) blame the US for dividing it in the first place.
                 Although, of course the blame for that mistake can be spread
                 around fairly liberially. -jrleek
                 around fairly liberally. -jrleek
                 \_ I guess we should have let Kim Sung I turn entire
                    peninusla into glorious juche paradise?
                 \_ I haven't kept up-to-date to realize that more people
                    are escaping now.  There is a lot of sentiment against
                    US like any country where US has occupying forces.
                    Don't know about recent elections, but past presidential
                    elections were generally approved/disapproved by US, though
                    not officially.  In that aspect, US had a lot of political
                    influence as well through the 80s and early 90s.
                    \_ A lot of the anti-US sentiment has to do with criminal
                       behavior on the part of US military personnel, esp. when
                       it goes unpunished. Many people in Korea understand that
                       US military presence is necessary to prevent NK's
                       version of reunification, i.e. invasion, but they'd
                       just as soon do without the rape and hit-and-runs.
                       \_ While the few bad egg behaviors does cause an
                          outrage, I don't think it would create the sort of
                          sentiments that exists.  While I and many do
                          understand the need of US involvement to maintain
                          peace, there are those who would rather make
                          unification a number one goal, peace be damned.
                          Sort of a "it's our problem, let us deal with it."
                          Here's some (one-sided) details on US involvement
                          in SK throughout the history:
                          http://www.kimsoft.com/2002/anti-uslwr.htm
                          The article mentions that it began in the 1800s.
                          My theory is that most of the strong resentments
                          stem from 1945/1948 through the presidency of
                          Noh Tae Woo.
                          \_ Perhaps I'm missing the point here, but I
                             challenge you to show me any SK citizen who would
                             welcome reunification under NPRK rule.
                             \_ I don't mean welcome NPRK rule, especially
                                given how much brainwashing is/was done in SK
                                to think that anyone that speaks like a "North
                                Korean" is a NK spy. (like using the Korean
                                word for "comrade")  I think these people are
                                shortsighted and only see it as "NK and SK are
                                both one Korea and we are as one" and not
                                seeing that Kim Jung Il will not unify Korea
                                except under his dictatorship.  These people
                                believe that if US leaves, the two Koreas can
                                talk to each other peacefully and come to an
                                agreement of a democratic unification.  While
                                this is a view of the extreme end, these are
                                the people that are vocalizing their hatred of
                                US.  Most people are too busy living their
                                own lives to care.
                                \_ You have completely ignored the fact that
                                   whenever the US has large numbers of troops
                                   deployed to a place for any significant
                                   period of time, the locals always end up
                                   wanting us out. See Okinawa, Philipines,
                                   SK, etc.

4/23    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/us/22vatech.html
        One month ago, Cho rented a van, spent an hour practicing at an indoor
        shooting range with his Glock, and recorded many videos in the van
        while parked in the range parking lot.
        http://tinyurl.com/ytau8u (huffingtonpost.com)
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
        Parents say Cho was diagnosed with autism upon arriving in U.S.
        More recent symptoms consistent with Asperger syndrome.
        "a contributing factor - compounded by vicious bullying by his peers -
        which led to multi-diagnosis, sociopathic rage and delusions"
        \_ Man murders 33 people in pre-meditated cold blood.  Didn't know
           any of them.  Diagnosis: sociopath.  I didn't need a degree or
           a study to figure that out.
           \_ Autism and Asperger syndrome.  If you really know what those are,
              I'm satisfied.
           \_ Autism and Asperger syndrome.  Do you really know what these are?
           \_ Autism and Asperger syndrome.  IMO you should really understand
              what these are - then you'll understand what I wrote.  At that
              point it's fine by me if you return to your old conclusion.
              \_ I know exactly what autism and asperger's are.  What does
                 that have to do with anything?  Are you trying to claim that
                 autism/asperger's victims are more likely to be sociopathic
                 killers?  If that wasn't your point then you'll have to
                 clarify.

4/18    I can't hit shit with my dominant hand with a .22
        How the hell did Korean Shooter manage to shoot 50 people?
        Did Chow Yun Fat train him?
        \_ Some people are naturals...I personally took a pistol course
           offered through my martial arts class taught by the same people who
           train FBI agents.  AT the end we were tested, I got an expert  level
           marksmanship (highest).  I hit the target every single time (50
           rounds)...only two rounds were not within the first circle of the
           target.  This was all while moving, at varying distances.  Note, I've
           never owned a gun before or since.  I do have better than 20-20
           eyesight. -scottyg
        \_ the sheeple just sat there waiting for their turn
        \- he did a lot of "hand exercises"
        \_ lots of CS.  many victims were shot 3+ times, some in the head,
           which is what you do in CS -- shoot for the body while they jump
           around, and then for the head when they slow down.
           besides, most dead people were found in two classrooms, with him
           blocking the only exit (no backdoor).
           he shot a girl in the mouth.
           \_ What does CS stand for?
              \_ Counter-Strike
           \_ Unless he was playing CS on a Wii or with a Light Gun, I don't
              see how this translates. Your mouse is not a pistol.
              \_ ob CS + hands-on practice + some dexterity
                 a friend who is a trained shooter pulls single shots
                 between multi-second pauses playing a stand-up arcade game.
                 I agree just CS is not sufficient.
        \_ Glock 19 comes with 3 15round mags. From the picture of the
           hollow points, and the statement of the gun store, he bought
           Remington HPs - the cheapest HP - because they come in qty 50
           Most HPs are sold in qty 20.

4/17    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108
        Professor who taught a poetry class he was enrolled in:  Cho seemed
        "extraordinarily lonely -- the loneliest person I have ever met in my
        life"
        \_ What is the standard procedure for civilians when someone starts
           shooting, according to the gov? "Stay put, do what they want,
           don't fight back. Bend over." That's insane, that's the exact
           opposite of what they teach LE and military. They teach you to
           shoot back! Fight back when given a chance. Look for cover,
           move! Not to stand still and just let him shoot you.
        \_ They've all heard the Barbara Streisand (BS) that "if you resist
        \_ They've all heard the Barbra Streisand (BS) that "if you resist
           you stand a greater chance of getting hurt or killed." Or that
           "if you give them what they want they'll go away." What do you
           then do if "what they want" is your life!
        \_ I think most of the deaths happened in an enclosed space
           and the targets had no way of running away.  What do you
           think?
        \_ Gun control advocates state that if you have a gun it
           will most likely be used against you.. .too bad out of 32
           chances for that to happen it didn't happen .. no one
           took the gun away from the shooter.. but on 33 the gun
           did get turned against the shooter when he killed himself.
           \_ yeah, those goddamn cowardly stupid victims should've been
              NRA members and held civil disobedience against the stupid
              gun ban.
              You know, I think you guys have this right.  This is the
              perfect time to carve empty political points out of a
              tragedy.
              \_ Yes and the anti-gun folks aren't hammering away at this
                 from the get-go, right?  PKB.

4/17    http://tinyurl.com/3973ly (latimes.com)
        Killer, a 23-year-old senior English major, virtually never spoke to
        roommate or suitemates.  Wrote a play for class where a kid suffocates
        his father-in-law with a rice krispy treat.
        http://tinyurl.com/34dewa (washingtonpost.com)
        Simultaneously wielded handguns in both hands during the attack.  High
        school friends say he was a big fan of Counter-Strike.
        \_ Mr. Robinson?
        \_ Chau Yun-Fat style.

2/22    Korea tested a nuke and we're not doing anything about it.  Iran
        is planning to test a nuke in a year or so and we're having a cow.
        What's with the double standard? If anything we should disarm these
        sneeky bastards first.
        \_ Seoul is within arty range of over 1K arty pieces buried inside
           NK mountains.
           \_ Why did they choose for capital a city that close to the NK
              border anyway?
        \_ It is a lot harder to disarm someone who has the bomb than it is
           to prevent them from getting one.  What do you recommend to disarm
           NK?  Nuking half of NK?  A land invasion would make Iraq look like
           the police action it is.  An air campaign would be useless.
        \_ There is no oil in NK.

2/13    N. Korea agrees to shutdown nuclear program in exchange for
        1 million tons of fuel oil per year:
        http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-02-11-nkorea-nuke-talks_x.htm
        \_ Basically, I'll believe it when I see it.  I sure NK is perfectly
           happy to get free fuel oil, but I'm a little sceptical of them
           keeping up their side of the deal.  On the other hand, if China
           really signs on, this may be real progress.
           \- i agree. [no opinion on the china part, tho].
           \_ Pretty much: believe this sort of thing when they hand over
              their reactors.
        \_ How much is one ton as an oil measuring unit?  Is it still 2000lb?
           \_ I'm assuming yes. Using 1010 kg/m^3 as the density of fuel oil,
              this is about 237 million gallons. For reference, I think that
              the largest oil tanker in the world holds ~ 10.5 million gallons.
              this is about 237x10^6 gal. For reference, I think that the
              largest oil tanker in the world holds ~ 10.5x10^6 gal.
        \_ Never negotiate with terrorists.
           \_ Just for the record, NK hasn't done any international terrorism
              for 20 years.  It don't think brinkmanship diplomacy counts as
              terrorism. Jump to "6. Terrorism":
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_North_Korea
              -jrleek
              \_ They 'tested' a missile by throwing it OVER japan,
                 and 5 years ago they threatened to turn the surrounding
                 area into a sea of flames.  They want to be taken seriously
                 as an international terrorist menace, the US takes
                 them seriously as an international terrorist menace,
                 so what's the problem?
                 \_ Admittedly, this is a little grey, but generally people
                    think of terrorism as killing large numbers of innocents.
                    Did either of those event qualify?  No?  Then it's
                    brinkmanship.  If you think threats qualify as terrorism,
                    I'm ok with that.
                    \_ It isn't an act of terror.  It is an highly provocative
                       act begging for war.  Many long bloody wars have been
                       fought through out history over less.
                       \_ Ok, thanks for agreeing with me.
                          \_ I agree it isn't an act of terror.  Terror is
                             what non-gvt entities do.  When gvt's do the
                             same things, they are acts of war.  When a gvt
                             sponsors a third party terrorist group, the
                             terrorist group is committing an act of terror
                             but the gvt is committing an act of war, even
                             for the same act.
              \_ While I'm on a roll here, what about official north korean
                 state sanctioned counterfeiting of the US 100 dollar
                 bill and heroin shipping?
                 \_ Drug dealers and counterfeiters are terrorists?  You
                    really are an "if you aren't with us, you're with the
                    terrorists" kinda guy, huh?
                    \_ The NK government is doing the counterfeiting but
                       nice try.
                       \_ I guess I don't understand your response.  If an
                          individual counterfeits, he is not a terrorist, but
                          if a government counterfeits, they are terrorists?
                          \_ No.  I was directly responding to your implication
                             that the counterfeiting was being done by non-gvt
                             entities.  The counterfeiting is a form of
                             economic aggression.  What I said above in the
                             other sub-thread about lobbing missiles over
                             Japan: many wars have been started over less.
                             \_ I didn't mean to imply that the counterfeiting
                                was by non-gvt entities.  Re-reading it, I
                                can't see how you got that.  So, again, thanks
                                for agreeing with me.
                                \_ I'm not going to quibble with you over
                                   whether the counterfeiting is an act of
                                   terror or an act of war.  It doesn't matter
                                   since the point of this whole thread was
                                   that NK is run by psychotic paranoids who
                                   commit evil acts on a continuing and daily
                                   basis.  They were not "just" 20 years ago.
                                   They were 20 years ago, they were today and
                                   they were every day in between.
                                   \_ If you wanted a whole thread about how NK
                                      is run by psychotic paranoids, you should
                                      have started one.  I just pointed out
                                      that the particular breed of nasty stuff
                                      NK does is not generally considered state
                                      -sponsored terrorism, and provided
                                      evidence.  WHICH YOU ADMIT IS TRUE.
                                      However, you seem to have taken this
                                      simple statement as some sort of sweeping
                                      defense of NK's bad behavior, and gone
                                      ape trying to attack that straw man.
                                      Next time try responding to what people
                                      actually write, rather than what the
                                      voices in your head say. (or shut-up)
                                      \_ *laugh*, So anyway, if you want to
                                         quibble over "terrorist" vs. the
                                         more accurate, "act of war", you're
                                         welcome to.  Perhaps you can start
                                         a club for the extreme OCD and the
                                         pedantic.  The only difference between
                                         NK's actions and any random terrorist
                                         group's action is NK is a state
                                         actor while the RTG is not.  And since
                                         you brought it up, you should really
                                         go back and re-read who said what to
                                         see who is screaming in all caps and
                                         going ape-shit and who has maintained
                                         the same simple line of reasoning.
                                         Hint: the all-caps wasn't mine.  Have
                                         a nice day and please do try to keep
                                         the personal attacks to a minimum.  It
                                         doesn't help your cause and it's quite
                                         boring.
                                         \_ Ha.  I like that.  Traslation:
                                            "You were right the whole time, but
                                            you're still wrong." Cool.
                                         \_ Hey, wait a minute.  I just went
                                            back and re-read everything.  This
                                            misunderstand occured because you
                                            don't know what "brinkmanship"
                                            means.  Go look it up, and lo, ye
                                            shall be enlightened.
              \_ How about kidnapping of foreign nationals (including South
                 Koreans) in foreign soil (e.g. Hong Kong)?
                 \_ This may qualify, but how recently?  Most incidents I'm
                    aware of occured >= 20 years ago.
                    \_ And they're still holding them so every single day
                       right now.
                       \_ Most of the Japanese have been returned, or have
                          died.  The vast majority of the abducted were South
                          Korean, the the SK govt. is kind of ignoring them.
                          (The SK chinese embassy recently turned away an
                          escaped SK abductee.)  Anyway, I'd chalk that up to
                          the NK inability to ever admit they were wrong,
                          rather than contuined terrorist activity.  In any
                          case, I'm not trying to defend NK, I'm just saying
                          they don't really qualify as terrorist to most
                          people.  Also, those abductions are mostly unknown,
                          which means that most people aren't "terrified" of
                          them.
                          \_ "Most" have been returned.  Or they died in
                             captivity.  Very nice.  All is good then!  Let's
                             party!  And since the SK govt is terrified of a
                             war with the NK they have cynically decided to
                             ignore the kidnappings so that must be ok, too!
                             Yay for the SK gvt making the right moral choice.
                             Not.  And since the NK is emotionally incapable
                             of admitting fault, that makes kidnapping foreign
                             citizens ok, too.  Yay!  Much happiness!  And
                             finally since the gvt and SK media have decided
                             to bury the issue, most people are unaware of it
                             so they're not afraid and thus the original act
                             of kidnapping wasn't a problem.  Yay!  I'm so glad
                             you were here to clean all that up.  And here I
                             was thinking all this time the NK gvt is run by a
                             bunch of evil paranoid psychotics who have been
                             threatening their southern neighbors for 50+ years
                             and now have nukes, too.  I feel so much better
                             now.  The only thing you missed was how NK is
                             really the victim of all this and if the West
                             would just give peace a chance and stop provoking
                             the NK and respect them it'd all be good.
                             \_ As I said, I am not defending NK.  I'm saying
                                that "terrorist" has a fairly well accepted
                                meaning, that NK does not _CURRENTLY_ fit.  Is
                                NK run by an evil bunch of criminals? Yes.  Is
                                every evil criminal a terrorist? No.
                                \_ They aren't terrorists.  Governments are
                                   not terrorist entities.  Governments can
                                   however commit the same acts as terrorists.
                                   In those cases we call them acts of war.
                             \_ Also, for the record, I don't really think
                                SK reluctance to push these kinds of issues is
                                due to fear of war.  From what I see in SK
                                politics, it seems like they're more afraid of
                                having their "Sunshine policy" shown for the
                                naive drivel it is.
                 \_ It's either that or Kim torrents a bunch of movies.
                    Do you support piracy?
                 \_ Why are so many South Koreans pro North Korea over
                    the evil satanic United States that stations several
                    hundred thousand servicemen in SK so the NK does NOT
                    just come marching in?  I don't get it.  NK has
                    tons of artillery pointed at Seoul, they kidnap citizens,
                    build crazy tunnels under Seoul, have said "WE WILL
                    BOMB THE FUCK OUT OF SEOUL IN ORDER TO UNITE WITH
                    OUR BROTHERS", and still many south koreans think
                    NK is just a bunch of misunderstood dudes.
                    \_ FUNK SEOUL BROTHERS
                       \- FUCK SEOUL BROTHERS
                          \_ Check it out now
                    \_ Just naivete.  SK history teaches that Korea is 1
                       country and that it's generally "Korea vs the world."
                       In otherwords, nationalism and xenophobia.  Many just
                       can't believe that their brothers could be more
                       dangerous than the forieners.  I think it's similar to
                       asking Europeans "which country is the biggest threat to
                       World Peace?"
        \_ Go dubya!  I'm sure he knows exactly what he's doing!

1/15    hmm... US GI stationed in Korea raped a 67 yr old woman...
        http://csua.org/u/hw4
        I guess it's less disturbing than the rape of 14 years old Japanese
        school girl a couple years ago.
        \_ 67 yr old?  Yucks.

10/20   Why do government officials waste time to travel to and back from
        foreign countries to meet with their counterparts where there is
        something to discuss?  E.g. Rice to Beijing, Tang Jiaxuan to Pyongyang.
        Why don't they just install some advanced video conference equipment?
        That would save a lot of time, and I think time is an essence during a
        political crisis.
        \_ Photo ops--but having worked with remote groups, I can say from
           experience that face-to-face is much different from (and better than)
           teleconferencing.
           experience that face-to-face is much different from (and better
           than) teleconferencing.
        \_ Also, it signals how seriously someone is about something.
        \_ more than that.  A lot of it is negotiation.  in a negotiation,
           body languages and other non-verbal ques are very very important.
        \_ much of the time, the real work is carried out by diplomatic staff
           in the foreign country under specific guidelines from the home
           country.  thus, the deal is made BEFORE the big wigs come for the
           photo-op.  so yes, the head honchos travel ... for the photo-op,
           and the photo-op's definite geopolitical effects.  they don't come
           if there is no deal, thus saving time.

10/20   http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-10/20/content_713426.htm
        'Kim told the Chinese delegation that "he is sorry about the nuclear
         test," the newspaper reported.'
        Why do I get the impression that this is a load of bollocks?
        \_ "I'm sorry you're pissed off"
        \_ Why would you trust what he says?
           \_ I wouldn't. I also highly doubt that he said that. It reeks of
              PRC propaganda. You know, the highly scripted attempts at
              impromptu speech that totalitarian media hacks are so very, very
              bad at.
              \_ it's more interesting to think that China can say "Kim Jong
                 Il eats shit and enjoys it", and NK won't do much
        \_ because Kim knows that China is about to throw a big party and
           not in the mood to do anything spoiling the mood (such as having
           3-4 million N.Korean flood across YaLue river and later claim
           that part of China NorthEast part of Korea Proper).   Don't worry
           though, China is not going to take this kind of crap from its
           protectorate.  China will deal with N.Korea when it is time.

10/19   http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2585531
        N Korean general in charge of demilitarized zone tells Diane Sawyer
        that nukes are for self-defense only, and that N Korea does not have
        a relationship with terrorist groups.
        \_ so what?
           \_ exactly.  japan also announced it won't be building nukes, and
              china says it will just be conducting more vigorous inspections
              of border traffic than usual.
        \_ Why would you take anything a N.K. official says at face value,
           esp. when told to the U.S. media?
           \_ because available data suggest that this face-to-face meeting
              may be providing the relatively accurate current posture.  it's
              beyond obvious NOT to trust a NK PR statement by itself.
              \_ uhm, what data?  i thought nk was incredibly closed and we
                 know nothing about what is going on?
                 \_ data == china and U.S. strategy
        \_ in a strict sense, having a nuke IS for self-defence.  N.Korea
           is under constant threat from USA.  Given USA's policy of regime
           change and all, N.Korea knew it is on top of the list.  I don't
           like N.Korean regime anymore than you do, but I can certainlly
           understand where they are coming from.  In a way, there are times
           I wish USA would do more, including
           - come up with a post-war plan for the first time
           - give assurnace to China that all refugees can be transfered to
             USA
           - etc, etc.  only under such conditions, China might turn off the
             tap.
             \_ Why would we accept 20 million N Korean refugees?
                \_ if you want to be tough against N.Korea, you need to
                   accept that as part of the cost.  Right now, Both Americans
                   and Japanese are being a chicken hawk who want to see the
                   collapse of the regime, but don't want to deal with the
                   consequences.   I think we all know what is like to
                   topple a regime without any nation-building effort by now
                   no?
                   \_ It depends on how the current government falls.  If there
                      is a coup then the old guard is executed or (rarely)
                      exiled and life goes on with maybe a few policy changes
                      and a foreign diplomacy "reset".
             \_ Isn't the natural place for a North Korean refugee to go if
                NK disintegrates South Korea?  I don't know that much about
                Korean politics, but I've never met a Korean who didn't want
                a unified peninsula.
                \_ they all say that but non of them really want to pay the
                   price of absorbing N.Koreans right now.
             \_ Unlike the refugees after the Vietnam war, there is no British
                Hong Kong to actually absorb most of them this time when the
                US claims that it'll accept them.

10/18   http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200610/200610120018.html
        Sex Dolls, etc

10/12   http://www.csua.org/u/h67 (Yahoo! News on 10/10):
        'China's U.N. Ambassador, Wang Guangya, told reporters: "I think that
        there has to be some punitive actions.'
        http://www.csua.org/u/h68 (Yahoo! News on 10/12):
        'Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said North Korea
        should understand it had made a mistake but "punishment should not be
        the purpose" of any U.N. response.'
        \_ There is a fundamental differences between Japan/US and
           China/S.Korea.  Both Japan and US want the N.Korean regime collaps,
           China and S.Korea doesn't simply because they don't want to deal
           with the refugees.  Besides, China got a big party coming up
           (Olympics) they don't want N.Koreans to ruin the party.
           American policies toward N.Korea is actually not much different
           from Iraq:  regime change without any plan for post-war
           planning and nation building.   Everyone talk about punish N.Korea,
           but China's concern is that if we tighten the screw just a little
           bit more, the regime might collaps and millions of refugees would
           flood across the Yalu river.  China's consideration is more
           practical, yet Neocons and China-haters on motd kept painting this
           as some sort of ideoogical fight.  Unless you are prepared to
           occupies collapsed N.Korea (when I say you, I mean S.Koreans and
           Americans) and feed the people and help S.Koreans to absorb the
           rest of N.Koreas, keeping the regime as it is is probably the best
           thing we can do right now.   and for those who don't have any
           sense of history:  It is not a good idea for China to occupy
           N.Koreas.  Koreans will deeply resent that, take my word for it.
           \_ This is like saying the Soviets should have been kept in
              power because no one wanted to deal with the Eastern bloc
              refugees.
           \_ Wow.  I was just pointing out the fact that official statements
              from the same government two days apart contradict to each other.
              If you think this is the way to get practical, okay.
           \_ Wow.  How could I have staged an ideological fight when the other
              party claims that North Korea should AND should not be punished?
              Whichever side I'm on, the other party agrees with me!  I was
              just pointing out the fact that official statements from the same
              government two days apart contradict to each other.  If you think
              this is the way to get practical on issues, okay.  --- OP

10/11   http://csua.org/u/h5x (iht.com)
        Russian defense minister reaffirms 5 to 15 kiloton estimate:
        "Our estimates have remained absolutely unchanged ... The discrepancy
        in the estimates can be explained by two reasons. The first is purely
        political ... somebody wants it to be more powerful, somebody less ...
        The second aspect is purely technical. Whose national technical devices
        do you think are closest to the site of the explosion? That is the
        answer to your question."
        \_ Unless the Russkies have a monitoring station just over the border,
           I'd still trust the South Koreans.
           \_ Why would you trust the Russians under any circumstances?
        \_ Hmm, the Russian defense minister is saying Russia wants the test to
           be more powerful.  And like he said, it's purely political.  Ha ha!
           This guy beats Dan Quayle.
        \_ I still think N.Koreans are bluffing.  In either case, Bush/Cheney
           should for the first time draw up a post-conflict plan and thinking
           about nation building.  The funny thing is, S.Koreans, long  desires
           unification of their motherland, is in no mood to absorb N.Koreans
           right now.  China was actively training a set of shadow government
           officials, but they are not in the mood for N.Koreans to ruin the
           2008 Olympics.
           \_ You think they're faked a mini nuke with a huge pile of
              conventional explosives or you think they will keep trying to
              set off nukes?  What part do you think the NK are bluffing?

10/11   More spitting and middle-fingering, literally, at the DMZ, the Cold
        War's last frontier these days:
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061011/wl_nm/korea_dmz_dc_1
        \_ Happens all the time.
           \_ Do you mean spitting and middle-fingering happen all the time,
              or the increase of spitting and middle-fingering happens all the
              time?
              \_ I mean there are 'events' in the DMZ all the time.  Spitting
                 and middle fingering is at the low end.  There have been
                 killings.

10/11   http://www.csua.org/u/h5n
        Former senator Sam Nunn (D-Ga.) faulted the administration for focusing\
        on Iraq first, when greater threats loomed in North Korea and Iran.
        "We started with Iraq in the 'axis of evil' side, when we thought they
        did not yet have nuclear weapons, and that sent the signal to others
        that they better get them quick," he said. "I think we started on the
        wrong end of that."
        \_ Re: last quote: O RLY?
        \_ Anyone have a Sam Nunn quote from before the war telling us this?

10/9    BBC radio just now said the NK nuke was estimated to be 1Kt and may
        have been conventional or a failed nuke.
        \_ Russia is saying the blast is between 5 and 15 kilotons, and it
           has a border with N Korea and helped them build the plant used to
           produce plutonium.
           \_ Since when did Russia share a border with North Korea?  I thought
              China was to the north of North Korea, and South Korea was to the
              south of North Korea.  The rest of North Korea is surrounded by
           \_ Um, moron, look at a world map or atlas.  Russia does not share
              a border with North Korea.  China shares a border with the north
              side of North Korea.  South Korea shares a border on the southern
              side of North Korea.  The rest of North Korea is surrounded by
              water.
              \_ NK shares a small part of its far NE border with Russia.
           \_ Uh, SK has a border with NK too.  So?  And what's it matter who
              built the plant that produced the plutonium unless they were
              involved in building the bomb or testing it?  I don't get what
              you're trying to say.
              \_ Russian nuclear expertise, duh
                 \_ "duh"?  You have no in way explained how the Russian claim
                    of 5-15Kt is more reliable than the other reports of 1Kt.
                    "Russian nuclear expertise" left hanging by itself is no
                    answer to anything.  They let you into college?
                    \_ use your brain, don't make ppl spoonfeed it to you
                       \_ So you've got nothing.  Thanks for not participating.
                          I believe this is where I say "duh" in response and
                          the whole thing disolves into purely personal attack.
        \_ Korea has nukes?  Great.  Now we wait for the red dot on the ground.
           "Nuclear launch detected"
           \_ There's never an Observer around when you need one.
              \_ And China's trying to blind our comsats!
                 \_ Don't worry, Bush, our benevolent Overlord has Vision[tm]!

10/8    So was the October Surprise a N. Korean underground nuke test?
        http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/ustqab.php
        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,218699,00.html
        \_ Hey, seriously, I am a liberal and oppose our invasion of Iraq.
           But in this case, i really think we need to think about use
           military force against the N.Koreans.  It will be a while before
           they actually weaponize the nukes.  Allowing them to have nukes
           is dangerous just because they don't mind selling it to the highest
           bidder!  Further, we need to remove any excuse for Japan get its
           nukes.
           \_ If we use military action against North Korea, it'll be the
              Korean War from 1950 - 1953 all over again, with the strong
              possibility of China backing North Korea (as they did before
              from 1950 - 1953).  That would be World War III.  But yeah,
              other than those pesky details, your idea makes sense.
              \_ Part of any pre-invasion plan will be an understanding
                 between the U.S. and China about N. Korean reconstruction.
              \_ Uhm, no.  History does repeat itself but the cliche doesn't
                 mean it like that.  It's a comment on human nature not history
                 itself per se.  Anyway, the Korean war was part of the whole
                 anti-communist containment/rollback strategy at the time.  No
                 one would consider any such action without China's advanced
                 consent this time.  Totally different situation.  But if the
                 consent this time.  Totally different situation.  But if
                 China were willing to allow an invasion they're much more
                 likely first to simply cut off NK from food and oil if having
                 a nuke-fre NK is their goal.  They could do so at anytime and
                 the fact that they haven't makes me believe they want NK to
                 have nukes.
                 \_ I don't think China wants NK to have nukes.  To China,
                    there is always the risk of the North uniting with the
                    South.  When it eventually happens, Korea most likely won't
                    be as "left" or as communist as it is today.  I don't think
                    China likes to see a non-alley neighbor having nukes.  This
                    downside is not worth the upside of a close alley having
                    nukes.  The upside is not much anyway, given that China
                    itself already has nukes.
                    \_ NK is like the mad dog on the end of China's leash but
                       it is still China's dog.  They have nukes because China
                       let them have nukes.  With out Chinese oil and food aid
                       the place would completely collapse.  The Chinese are
                       more concerned about millions of hungry NK heading to
                       their border than they are about NK nukes.
              \_ "Mr. President, this is not the hour of our weakness. This
                  is the hour of our strength. If the Chinese cross the
                  Yalu, I will make of them the greatest slaughter in the
                  history of warfare. They have no means for giving ground
                  ... air support to the ground troops. And they cannot do
                  it and I do not believe they will."
                 If only Truman had been smart enough to listen to MacArthur,
                 the NK issue would not exist today.
                 \_ In a way, you're absolutely right.  If Truman had listened
                    to MacArthur, human civilization would not exist today.
                    By extension, neither would the NK issue.
                    \_ human civilization wouldn't exist?  Oh please....
                       \_ Truman would have provoked nuclear war.
                          \_ Let's assume this is true.  The US had how many
                             bombs?  Dozens?  A few hundred tops?  China and
                             Russia had how many between them?  And what
                             ability to deliver them outside their own borders?
                             What is much more likely is China either retreats
                             or they nuke back.  If they retreat it's over.  If
                             they nuke back, then Korea becomes a waste land,
                             a lot of people die, we may have nuked China back
                             directly in which case even more people die, then
                             China is forced to capitulate after their country
                             is a wasteland.  So, worst case, China and Korea
                             are gone, best case, Korea/China border is nuked
                             out.  Either way, "The Whole World Is Dead! OMG!
                             WTF! BBQ!" is not a serious proposition.  Of
                             course this all sucks big time if you're Korean
                             or Chinese but that is not the same as "the end
                             of civilization".
                             \_ Heh.  You remind me a lot of George C. Scott's
                                character in Dr. Strangelove.  "Mr. President,
                                I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair
                                mussed!  I'm saying two or three million dead
                                TOPS....err, depending on the breaks!"
                                \_ Whatever.  The point remains.  The world
                                   would not have ended.  The nukes were much
                                   smaller, harder to deliver and fewer in
                                   number.  I'm not saying I'm in favor of
                                   having nuked China at the time.  I'm saying
                                   the sky wouldn't have turned to blood or
                                   rain frogs or everyone's first born male
                                   child died in the night.
           \_ Seconded.  Bomb the crap out of them. --other lefty
              \_ You're kidding, yes?  This is the perfect time for sanctions
                 and other non-military arm twisting and you want to bomb?
                 Iraq was due for an invasion after years of failed sanctions
                 and many on the left wanted to simply end sanctions and walk
                 away because sanctions weren't hurting the right people....
                 I find the whole thing fascinating.
                 \_ Who are you who are so wise in the ways of geopolitics?
                 \_ Sanctioning NK won't hurt the right people either.  You
                    think Kim Jong-Il will starve before all the civilians do?
                    \_ The people are already starving.  Once the army is
                       starving things may change.
                 \_ if China impose a sanction, N.Korea probably will implode.
                    This is of course something YOU want, but it is not
                    something China nor South Korean wants.  Why?  just think
                    in terms of illegal immigration issue... except that
                    million of them going to try to get across the broder in
                    the period of weeks.    Unless you are ready to allow
                    Chinese mow down those N.Korean refugees with machine gun
                    fire, and you have a plan for post-implode N.Korea, I
                    recommend you STFU.
        \_ Yes, Karl Rove planted nuke tech in NK going back to the early
           90s having forseen the need almost 15 years in advance for an
           October Surprise in the 2006 mid term elections.  The man is
           the Devil!
        \_ Just curious, the test was 10:36am local time (N and S Korea).
           About when did news of the test go out on the wire actually?
           \_ About an hour afterwards, based on Google News timestamps.
        \_ world leaders will agree that n korea escalated unnecessarily.
           Dubya and GOPers will talk tough and the intl media for once will
           agree with this posture.
           \_ Why would the international media matter?  Anyway this isn't the
              time to talk military strike.  It is the time to squeeze them
              dry of food, oil, and cash.

10/8    Basically, really fucking glad I am not in Korea!:
        http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/INCN_24hr.html
        http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/ustqab.php
        \_ I actually am in Korea.  No third eye yet. -jrleek
           \_ Why are you in Korea?  I'm assuming Seoul.  Seoul is not
              North Korea, so of course you wouldn't feel any negative
              effects from the earthquake/nuclear test.
              \_ Depends on which way the wind blows.
              \_ Go look on a map, Seoul is next door to North Korea
              \_ That tends to happen when you marry a Korean.

10/8    Basically, you all wish you were South Korean:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/arts/08schi.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
        "Frantic, piercing, the shrieks echoed down the corridors from one
        corner of the vast underground complex. There hundreds of young people,
        mostly women and girls, waved signs and sang slogans as they swirled
        in the glare of klieg lights. It was the kind of fan frenzy that
        anywhere else would be reserved for rockers or movie legends... In fact
        the objects of the throng's adoration were a dozen of the nation's
        most famous athletes... These were professional video gamers, idolized
        for their mastery of the science-fiction strategy game StarCraft."
        \_ In Korea, there are several television channels devoted solely to
           televising matches between video gamers on games like StarCraft.
           I guess that sure beats having several television channels devoted
           to home shopping of crappy, useless household items, as we do here
           in America.

9/28    Quiet, easily controlled Asian man favored for UN Secretary General,
        to replace previous uppity black leader
        http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/09/28/D8KE4M2O1.html
        \_ If you think a South Korean politician is "easily controlled,"
           you don't know much about politics.
           \_ i'm just saying the stereotype may be why he's favored
              \_ I doubt it.  I think it more reflects the rise of South
                 Korea in terms of political and economic influence over the
                 past few decades.  The negative stereotype you are referring
                 to is really only prevalent in America and Western Europe,
                 and they make up only a minority of the United Nations.
                 \_ Yeah, but it's 60% of the permanent setas in the Security
                    Council.

9/18    Korean elephant learns to talk:
        http://tinyurl.com/eh56t (reuters.com)

7/31    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060729/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_mass_games
        'Then-U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright visited a mass game in
        Pyongyang in 2000, where a mosaic displayed an animated missile flying
        into the sky.  "This will be our last missile," Kim Jong Il reportedly
        told Albright.  The North this month test-fired seven missiles ......
        in violation of a self-imposed moratorium on long-range launches.'
        \_ Albright?  Of course she was lied to and ate it up.  Any 6 year old
           could sell her a bridge.
           \_ Right... It was Albright's fault...  It couldn't be that the
              current admin cut off the ongoing diplomacy we had with N.K.,
              then called them a point on the dreaded Axis of Evil.  Nope.
              Couldn't be.
              \_ I didn't say anything was her fault.  I said Albright is a
                 clown.  Go read the transcript for her confirmation hearings.
                 She's scary and incompetent.
              \_ The world was such a paradise before GWB took office.
                 I saw it in Fahrenheit 911. Kids were flying kites and
                 eating ice cream cones in Iraq.
                 \_ So you deny things regarding N.K. are more fucked up now
                    than 6 years ago?  And since you want to make a detour
                    through Iraq...  How's that freedom marching these days?
                    \_ I denied nothing. I just responded to one smarmy,
                       assinine response with another... How'd that 2004
                       election go?
                 \_ Actually, the part about flying kites and eating ice cream
                    cones was accurate.
                    \_ And playing in rivers of chocolate.  Don't forget
                       that.  I'm sure Suni kids from Saddam's tribe were
                       doing quite well.  If you were a Kurd or a southern
                       Shiite you were lucky to get clean water or
                       electricity.
        \_ Madeleine was a hot dame in her youth. -proud American

7/5     http://tinyurl.com/qv9v8  (yahoo)
        so, when are we going to invade North Korea?  Afterall, we did
        invade Iraq and ready to bomb Iran.
        \_ obNoOil
        \_ One could say "obNoOil" but that'd be intellectually dishonest.
           More likely is that the President's and his staff understand that
           each country should be treated according to circumstances, one might
           say he's taking a nuanced approach to world affairs, rather than
           the one size fits all approach you're suggesting.  And btw, no one
           said we're ready to bomb Iran.  *IF* there is anything to bomb it
           is spread all over the place.  This isn't the Iraqi reactor the
           Israelis blew up.  Nuance.  Fun, huh?
           \_ Read "Cobra II." We invaded Iraq because we thought it would be
              easy and set an example.  Invading North Korea is Hard (tm), or
              was at least perceived to be in 2002.  It is thought that NK
              could do a huge amount of damage to Seoul via artillery and other
              means before we could successfully invade.  Iraq was invaded
              because it was the most "vulnerable" of the "Axis of Evil." --!op
              \_ I don't dispute any of that.  I agree with you that it is
                 more complex than the mindless "no blood for big oil" crowd
                 would have us believe.  Quite the contrary, I think 10k+
                 artillery pieces could make a good mush of Seoul, etc and
                 Iraq was an easier target, etc.
            \_ there is an earlier thread about we are being a pacifist...
            \_ My obNoOil was a joke. Obviously the real reason is only that
               NK essentially is holding hostages (SK). Plus there's China
               to deal with. Nuanced approach? Rubbish.
                  \- In return for giving up nukes, I recommend borrowing
                     from the historical playbook by offering North Kolea
                     CHENEY as a deterrance hostage. link:csua.org/u/gbx
                     \_ The PSB is wise; heed the PSB.

6/22    Nice pics from a North Korean vacation.
        http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82755

6/12    Dae Han Min Gook!
        \_ Korean soap operas convinced me that Korean women are the
           hottest in the world. They don't age and they're georgeous.
           \_ Seconded. I'd be honored if one of the Korean girls would help
              me pass on my genes with her, like jrleek.
           \_ The same soaps have convinced me that Korea is even more
              chauvanistic than Japan. Wtf? Is this some Confucian holdover
              I'm just not able to get as a Westerner?
              \_ Maybe soap operas aren't the best way to learn about another
                 culture, eh?
              \_ Dunno about Japan, but Korea is very chauvanistic. Even if
                 it doesn't look that way on the surface, it is there
                 underneath. It is also a country where pride rules all,
                 where every small business owner insists on being called
                 President Kim and whatnot.
           \_ Which soap operas did you watch? My impression from
              watching many Korean drama has been quite the positive.
              They seem to have strike a good balance between
              absorbing western culture and retain their own
              traditional values. I have more respect for the Koreans
              now. I consider them a good example of what an Asian
              country would look like under good democracy. It is
              precisely because they retained their traditional values
              that they are able to come out with such hot selling
              soap operas, unlike Taiwan and HK which puts out craps.
              HK is getting better, but I have not seen a good Taiwan
              soap opera lately. The last one I watched was Millennium
              Mamboo which is just a piece of shit. All in all I like
              Korean dramas, and I plan to visit it once day.

4/2     http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/02/south-korea-wants-100-robot-market-penetration-by-2020
        South Korea Wants 100% Robot Penetration by 2020

4/2     http://tinyurl.com/juoet (engadget.com)
        South Korea Wants 100% Robot Penetration by 2020
        \_ yermom prefers the human touch.

2/16    Looking for the name of a famous Korean soap opera where this
        girl wants to be the #1 Chef and then later on the #1 Nurse.
        The music sounds like "Hu na la hu na la" something something.
        Thanks.
        \_ You're one year late, man.  It was on Ch26 9pm M-F this time
           last year, in both Korean and Mandarin (SAP) with Chinese subtitles.
           http://www.imbc.com/broad/tv/drama/daejanggum
           The tune is in G-maj:
           A B B B -A G | E G G G - - | A B B B -A B | D B B B - - |
           D E E E -D B | B D E D - - | A B B B -A G | E G G G - - |
        \_ This soap opera further reinforces my preconception that Korean
           women are the HOTTEST women in the entire East Asian race.
           Young Korean women are cute. Middle age Korean women are
           georgeous. Old Korean women are classy. Korean women #1.

2/9     http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/07/news/international/tallest_building
        Tallest building in Korea
        \_ I'll bet it's an easy target for North Korean artillery
           \_ South Korea's small and close by. Everywhere is an easy target.

1/19    Food fight... Korean Style
        http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200501/200501210041.html
        \_ They don't look like they're having much fun.  (Although the
           audiance seems happy enough.)
           \_ Not as hot as the cute jgirl commercial link posted earlier.

11/7    The Three Kingdoms comic.  Stupid in-jokes about the Romance of
        the Three Kingdoms.  In English, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and,
        what is that, Cambodian?
        http://www.shiji.cc/san/index.php?mode=main
        \_Close to Khmer...it's Thai. -scottyg

10/20   Dang, Korean support is still broken in Ubuntu.  The only good
        experience I've had with Korean and Linux was on Fedora Core 2,
        which was pretty much a bad experience in every OTHER way.
        -jrleek
        \_ not enough Korean vulenteer for open-source effort?
           \_ I really don't know.  I'm not in contact with any CSUA-
              style Korean super-nerds. I knew someone who went to an ITT
              tech style school, and she did stuff with Linux, but I'm not
              sure what version. -jrleek
        \_ I installed nabi in Ubuntu and everything worked fairly well for
           me 'cept for finding a sleek looking terminal that supports UTF
           (I use pekwm as window manager, so konsole didn't work too well.)
           I believe there are at least two wiki pages on the ubuntu wiki site
           that describes Korean support in ubuntu.
           \_ Really?  I didn't have much luck with it last night.  I did
              get it working with xterm, but it didn't seem to work for
              Firefox.  I'll look for those wiki pages, thanks.  (Most of
              the nabi docs I found were in Korean) -jrleek
              \_ But you can read Korean, though, can't you?  If I remember
                 correctly, the nabi website had a Korean version and English
                 version.  I think the Korean version had more details.  I'm
                 a total n00b to localization stuff and decided to try out
                 nabi after one of your motd posts made me want to try out
                 Korean localization.  Since I was a n00b and had no idea, I
                 went back and forth between the Korean and English pages.
                 \_ Yes, I can, but it's hard and I'm lazy.  Reading Linux
                    docs is often pretty hard anyway, adding the language
                    barrier doesn't help.  Thanks though.  NEVERMIND, I
                    finally got home and tried what it said on the wiki,
                    and it works great! Thanks a lot mystery man! -jrleek
        \_ you do know that Hangu Jamo is actually more challenging than
           the Chinese Han Characters in terms of render it on the screen?
           \_ Of course it is.  What's your point?

9/19    Oh look, North Korea is saying they won't be disarming until they get a
        light water reactor
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1487719/posts
        \_ obviously the got the idea from the motd...
           \_ The U.S. better get moving with a robust NPT prohibiting uranium
              enrichment, plutonium creation, and a catch-all clause
              prohibiting technology which can lead very quickly to a bomb.
              The excuse I read 6-12 months ago with not doing a real NPT was
              "it would take too long".
              The U.S. has the answer, but just needs to follow through.
              \_ Yes, clearly the problem with Iran and North Korea is that
                 the language in the non-proliferation treaty isn't complete
                 enough.
        \_ dude, this latest agreement is not about N.Korea and its nukes,
           it's about dubya get some headline with a positive spin.
        \_ Interestingly this is the FIRST freerep. link that I have found
           useful.  I agree with many of the comments that basically state
           "the north koreans will just use material in the reactors to
           build more weapons and get another concession from the US."
                -mrauser
           \_ You need thousands of centrifuges to weaponize the enriched
              uranium fuel used for light water reactors into a single bomb.
              And, the enriched uranium would be fed to North Korea peacemeal,
              given more as it used up more in the reactor.
              On the other hand, North Korea already has enough plutonium for
              eight bombs:  As many as two bombs while they were playing with
              their graphite reactors in three separate incidents '89-'91,
              and six more since inspectors were kicked out in '02-now since
              six bombs:  As many as two bombs while they were playing with
              their graphite reactor in three separate incidents in '89-'91,
              their graphite reactors in three separate incidents '89-'91,
              and four more since inspectors were kicked out in '02-now since
              Dubya didn't want to finish building the light water reactors
              Bubba promised back in '94 that would be done by '03 -- because
              Kim Jong-il had confessed to a secret nuke program earlier in '02
              (violating NPT) and Dubya didn't know what else to do.
              \_ And this way they get FREE REACTOR.  Do you believe that the
                 moment they unpack their shiny new peaceful toy, they're going
                 to spontaneously erupt into bursts of nuclear-abhorring song
                 and dance?  (No, I can't see the Chinese doing anything but
                 pressuring the US into giving the reactor _before_ NK does
                 anything in return.)  Bombs or not, they're a bunch of evil
                 little pests.  -John
           \_ You need thousands of centrifuges to enrich enough uranium
              from light water reactors for a single bomb.
              That's why people say that even if Iran kicked out all the
              inspectors and went full-bore for bombs, it would take them
              5-10 years for a bomb.
              Bubba promised back in '94 that would be done by '03.
                 \_ The fun part is they don't need nukes to serious screw
                    with the world. A couple of hundred artillery shells would
                    put a serious damper to South Korea's economy, which
                    affects the US economy, and force the US to engage in
                    a third war front. It's goes downhill from there. In truth
                    the nukes or threat of nukes is what is keeping NK an
                    independant state.
                    \_ Personally, I think, without nukes, NK is a paper
                       tiger.  Unlike Iraq, where are continued
                       unrest, resistance and bloodshed, for NK, once the
                       Kim regime is removed from power, the NK people
                       will happily welcome the SKoreans.  The initial
                       attack could be destructive due to the
                       destruction could be destructive due to the
                       proximity of Seoul, but I wouldn't overestimate
                       \_ yup, who cares about civilian casualties
                          when they are not white.
                       the NK conventional forces.  The conventional
                       war would probably last a little longer than
                       Iraq but not much.  But yes, US will be really
                       stretched, but it won't be for very long.  The
                       PLA would gether along the border in case of
                       unrest, etc., but it won't cross the Yalu.  China
                       stretched, but it won't be for very long.  China
                       would want to play a role in terms of establishing
                       influence, but really, there isn't too much that
                       it can do, without appearing very bad since
                       it can do, without appearing rather very bad since
                       the NK regime is morally, and literally, bankrupt,
                       and because China would want to maintain good
                       relations with S. Korea.  Unfortunately, with
                       nukes, things become very scary.  Mr. Kim knows
                       the above, that's why he will always keep his
                       nukes, unless and until he can transform NK, and
                       be viewed as some sort of authoritarian modernizer in
                       the mold of Deng, Putin, Chiang Chingguo, Lee
                       Kuan Yew, etc., but I doubt he has what it takes,
                       and because unlike the other countries, there is
                       a dynamic, succesful, equal-sized South Korea whose
                       existence make a mockery of the legitimacy of his
                       regime.  Still, with nukes, the prudent thing for
                       the surrounding countries to do, is to find a way
                       out for Kim somehow.  China will probably offer
                       him a villa somewhere in China if his regime falls,
                       but it would still be a hot potato for China if
                       a united Korea demands his arse back.
                          \_ They've been selling rockets like hot cakes,
                             I thought.  I would imagine that Pakistan
                             proved pretty conclusively that states which
                             want to be evil little shitbags will be so,
                             regardless of "rational".  I don't understand
                             why the US doesn't just walk away from the
                             table and let Japan, the Chinese and S. Korea
                             handle it--they seem to think themselves well
                             capable of it.  -John
                             \_ NK will only negotiate with the US for
                                some crazy reason.
                             \_ The thing is, China, S.
                                Korea and Japan doesn't care as much as
                                the US as to whether Pakistan has
                                rockets or not.
                                \_ Exactly, and that's part of the problem-
                                   China wants to play regional superpower,
                                   and uses N. Korea as a check to US power.
                                   S. Korea/Japan need US protection on a
                                   strategic level, but not on an immediate
                                   level, so they don't realize the importance
                                   of a balance to the Chinese, and India
                                   seems like they find the US pathetic.  The
                                   logical conclusion seems either to leave
                                   them to sort their shit out, or to let
                                   themselves blow each other to kingdom come.
                                   If the US can resolve (ha ha) the tiny
                                   issue of energy dependency on the middle
                                   east and central asia, pulling out would be
                                   the best option.  -John
                       a united Korea demands his arse back.
                                \_ genau und der ist ein Teil des Problems
                                   China regionalen Superpower spielen möchte
                                   und benutzt N. Korea da eine Überprüfung
                                   zur US Energie. S. Korea/Japan
                                   Notwendigkeit US Schutz auf einem
                                   strategischen Niveau, aber nicht auf einem
                                   sofortigen Niveau, also sie verwirklichen
                                   den Wert einer Balance nicht zum Chinesen,
                                   und Indien scheint, wie sie die US
                                   pathetisch finden. Die logische
                                   Zusammenfassung scheint entweder, sie zu
                                   lassen, um ihre Scheiße heraus zu
                                   sortieren, oder lassen Sie sich zum
                                   Königreich sich durchbrennen kommen. Wenn
                                   die US (ja ja) die kleine Ausgabe der
                                   Energieabhängigkeit auf dem Mittler-Osten
                                   und dem zentralen Asien beheben können,
                                   würde das Ausziehen die beste Wahl sein.
                                   Heil Hitler!                    - John
                       \- demurring on the paper tiger question, they can
                          still sell stuff to non-paper tigers. and they dont
                          have to sell fully functioning nuclear icbms to be
                          a problem. say the regime falls aparts and somewhere
                          you find a receipt for delivery of a couple of kg
                          of highly radioactive material to Mr. Albert Queda
                          (i dunno if they have made ricin or other low tech
                          chem/bio agents) what happens then? this would not
                          be the rational behavior of a state, but the side
                          effect of anarchy.
                          \_ Come to think of it, yes, things could be
                             a little thorny especially since it's not just
                             Kim, but an entire NK generals, officials
                             ruling class.  As much as it's a pain to see
                             justice compromised, it's always a good idea
                             to assure them their safety, and a role to
                             play in a united korea.  Not doing that for
                             the Baath Party members and Iraqi Army officers
                             is one of the biggest mistakes US made.
                             the Baath Party / Iraqi Army officals is one
                             of the biggest mistakes US made, in my opinion.
                             Still to the people of NK, South Koreans are
                             their brothers, unlike the relationship
                             between Iraqis and Pax Americana, so there
                             won't be much resistance once the regime
                             falls.
                       out for Kim somehow.
                             between Iraqis and Pax Americana.
                        \_ You know that the capital of S.Korea is
                           within the artillery range of N.Korean, right?
                           can you imagine what would happened to S.Korean's
                           economy if they suffered just a hour of bombardment?
                           (~60% S.Korean population lives in Seoul)
                           Do you care if hundreds of thousands
                           of refugee across the Yalu river to Chinese border?
                           Do you really think S.Korea has the will and economy
                           to absorb N.Korea?  Chances are, you don't care.
                           Since the Korean War, US only wanted one thing:
                           the collapse of N.Korea regime. Mean while the
                           Chinese/S.Koreans, being at N.Koreans, has a lot
                           of pratical things they need to worry about.  This
                           is why S.Korean's stance is more aligned with the
                           Chinese.  US need to think about WHY S.Koreans,
                           being an ally with USA for past 5 decades, is
                           deviating from USA in terms of N.Korea policy.
                           *FURTHER*  I was hoping Iraq would taught USA
                           a lesson of post-war planning...
                        \_ You know that the capital of S.Korea is
                           within the artillery range of N.Korean, right?
                           can you imagine what would happened to S.Korean's
                           economy if they suffered just a hour of bombardment?
                           (~60% S.Korean population lives in Seoul)
                           Do you care if hundreds of thousands
                           of refugee across the Yalu river to Chinese border?
                           Do you really think S.Korea has the will and economy
                           to absorb N.Korea?  Chances are, you don't care.
                           Since the Korean War, US only wanted one thing:
                           the collapse of N.Korea regime. Mean while the
                           Chinese/S.Koreans, being at N.Koreans, has a lot
                           of pratical things they need to worry about.  This
                           is why S.Korean's stance is more aligned with the
                           Chinese.  US need to think about WHY S.Koreans,
                           being an ally with USA for past 5 decades, is
                           deviating from USA in terms of N.Korea policy.
                           *FURTHER*  I was hoping Iraq would taught USA
                           a lesson of post-war planning...
                           \_ That was sort of my point above--the Chinese
                              have a stake in what happens, while the US is
                              obviously just playing neo-imperialist games.
                              Maybe China should be left to figure out how to
                              deal with N. Korea.  Regarding refugees, they
                              generally tend to stream away from the direction
                              the artillery's coming from... -John

8/27    Korea looking to sell some fighters jets for $100 each:
        http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200508/kt2005081519485168040.htm
        \_ That's awesome.  Only if I have a place store it...
        \_ Shipping not included

8/20    Does anyone have a clue where I can find info on statistics/numbers
        and demographics of big Korean/Asian MMORPGs like Lineage, etc.?  This
        is for a colleague's research project.  -John
        \_ I'll ask my sister when I get the chance -- she did her dissertation
           on this general topic, so she might be able to give some info. -mice
        \_ ah yes, "research" *wink*
           \_ Actually it's a marketing thing for stuff that might actually be
              *useful* for people playing 24/7 in internet cafes (my
              suggestion) but said colleague didn't have the slightest clue on
              where to start.  I mainly play Forgotten Hope, as my knowledge
              of Korean is somewhat limited.  Thanks mice!  -John

8/15    Japanese^H^H^H^H^H^H^HFrench people are weird.
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050815/ap_on_fe_st/france_pig_squealers
        \-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kancho
          \_ Yucks.
          \_ This is pretty common in Korea, it's called ddong-chim there,
             which translates to "poop-needle." (Amusingly, in Korea,
             Kancho is a tasty chocolate ball candy.) -jrleek
             \_ What's worse, is that you see 5 year olds doing it to
                adults out of nowhere.

7/25    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050725/od_nm/china_suicide_dc
        China suicide rate climbing. This is going to solve their
        high men/women ratio, a cause for major frustration.
        \_ Man, that must be depressing for the parents.  They can only
           have one kid, so they go to a lot of trouble to produce a boy
           to carry on the family line.  Then he kills himself.  Oops.
           \_ Well if you're a gay Chinaman it's a really good thing.
              \_ Maybe if you're a necropiliac gay Chinaman...
                 \_ No, I mean this trend is good because straight men kill
                    themselves out of frustration, so most of the men left
                    are either straight&married, or gay, which makes them
                    easier to find.
              \_ It's funny how you use "gay" so you don't offend
                 homosexuals, and yet you don't care about offending us
                 "Chinamen".  Thanks.
           \_ iirc, the new policy is that if both you and your wife
              are the only child of your family, you can have 2 kids.
        \_ There are a lot of innovative solutions China should embrace
           to prevent this societal epidemic caused by sexual frustrations.
           1) Implement rent-a-girlfriend service. If your parents visit
           you and nag about it you can rent a girlfriend to shut them
           up. 2) Allow more brothels. A man can't jackoff all his life,
           he has to release his sexual urges somehow or else he'll
           go crazy and kill himself, and in some cases (like the Iraqi
           loners) kill others with them. 3) Allow more economic
           incentives for having girls. 4) Discourage marriage between
           pretty native Chinese women and extremely wealthy, old, and ugly
           Hong Kong and Taiwanese lords who already have 3rd and 4th wives.
           This has been going on for a while and is really really causing
           a lot of resentments and pissing off a lot of natives whos lives
           are changed drastically [for the worse] by these foreigners.
           \_ yea, but they can just go to vietnam, like what many taiwanese
              are doing.
              \_ So are Koreans.  There were tons of billboards saying
                 "Marry Vietnamese!  We'll set you up!"  Word on the
                 street was that Vietnamese ladies work harder. -jrleek
                 Addendum:  Oddly, I watched a sort of Korean Hard Copy
                 with my wife tonight, and it had a segment on Koreans
                 mail ordering Vietnamese brides.  It was mostly about a
                 37-year old lower-middle class Korean batchelor who
                 scored himself a pretty good-looking 22 year old
                 Vietnamese bride.  Still, she didn't really speak much
                 Korean, and nobody in the family liked Vietnamese food.
                 \_ Let me get this right, YOU [white American] understand
                    Korean? How? Why?
                    \_ maybe cuz he...married a korean?
                       \_ Is he sky?
                    \_ I spent 2 years in Korea as a missionary, which is
                       some pretty intense language training. Then I
                       married a Korean, we speak a lot of Korean around
                       the house.
                       \_ So dorky white guy takes Korean women, forcing
                          Korean man to take Vietnamese women...
           \_ #1 already exists.  Someone posted a link about this on the MOTD
              a year or so ago.  #3 is quite doable in China.
           \_ #2 is pretty much a free market (or free-for-all market) already.
              there are an estimated 5 million prostitutes in the PRC.
           \_ #3 is easy.  just learn from singapore.  prc already
              followed singapore's model on its new yuan exchange rate
              policy - pegging to a basket of foreign currencies based
              on trade with those countries.
        \_ Maybe china could provide a economic incentive for sex change
           operations. That way chinese guys wouldn't have kill themselves
           and they could make some white guy w/ yellow fever happy.
           \_ If thats the goal, sex change isn't necessary.  Lots of gay
              white guys have yellow fever as well.
                \_ So you might need a sexual orientation change operation
                   instead.
                   \_ sigh ... why you worry so much?  just go import some
                        women from russia lah.  or just offer your own
                        pasty arse, maybe there will be some takers.

6/30     My wife is a naturalized US citizen who came here from Korea so
         young that she doesn't know the language. Something I hear from her
         frequently though is her conviction that white people (other than an
         enlightened few) think way deep down that only they belong here and
         they think they are being good for "tolerating" her being in the
         US. This usually comes up after some random homeless person or
         deadbeat (usually on or waiting for buses) singles her out for
         slander out of a crowd of non-Asians. So, with the power of the
         quasi-anonymous motd behind you, let's hear it white boys. In your
         heart of hearts, are you just tolerating the brown and yellow
         people? She says she thinks this is a particular problem in Berkeley
         because the high Asian fraction makes them more threatening to white
         people. -- ulysses
         \_ Asian = White to me, as far as I can tell.  But I grew up with
            an adopted chinese sister.  I do have some personal preferences
            that could be considered cultural prejudices (i.e. I hate loud,
            confrontational and overbearing people) but really those
            characteristics are not specific to races, even if there are
            cultural predispositions toward or away from such behaviors.
         \_ Ummm... I would expect anything you glean here would be
            considered from the "enlightened few."  Futhermore, before this
            I mostly heard this about black bums in SF.  I don't think race
            has much to do with the fact that Bums are usually kinda nuts.
            That said, she's probably right about a lot of people, but
            that's hardly an unusual sentiment.  Ask her how she thinks
            other races are treated Korea.
              \_ I suspect she wouldn't really have much of an idea
                 how other races are treated in Korea, since she grew
                 up here and doesn't speak Korean. It's certainly not
                 racist, but there is often the (mis-?)conception among
                 people in the US that people with non-white/black ancestors
                 are more closely connected to the lands of their ancestry.
               \_ That's why I said he should ask what she thinks.  It's a
                  thought problem.  I could've said Japan or China, but I
                  thought Korea at least made a little more sense.
         \_ interesting observations but I think the analysis is all wrong
         \_ I used to feel like your wife does, but then I left the Bay Area
            and met some regular white people (republicans even!) and found
            that mostly they don't care where you (or your parents) are from
            and what color your skin is.
            What I did notice is that most "white" people whose ancestors
           were immigrants (Irish, Scottish, Italian) are a bit more open
           to Asians (at least Indians) than are other "white" people.
            were quasi-recent immigrants (Irish, Scottish, Italian, Polish,
            Russian, &c.) are other "white" people.
            \_ This sounds a little like what someone said a few days ago on the
               motd about United Airlines' service.  It turns out that United
               treats everyone like shit, without regard to skin color, and that
               a lot of people in the Bay area tend to seem like assholes,
               regardless of your skin color.  It also seemed to me that a lot
               of people of many many different ethnic backgrounds, including
               white people had a huge chip on their shoulder in the Bay Area.
            \_ Which white people don't have immigrant ancestors?
               \_ I was refering to people who immigrated to the US rather
                  than the colonies.
         \_ My wife is Japanese, and she started living here in the Bay Area
            from 1999. She notes that white people (here and elsewhere in the
            States) have a hard time looking her in the eyes. I thought she was
            imagining it until I started looking for it, and sure enough, most
            whites will direct 90% of their conversation toward me, even though
            she's definitely the more attractive of the two of us. Asians,
            Asian-Americans, and African-Americans seem to pay us equal
            attention. Weird. --erikred
           \_ I'm an Asian man and I'll give you my observations and
              behavioral interpretations. Most of the white men I've met in
              the Bay Area are much nicer than white men from other places.
              I suspect it has something to do with their relatively higher
              education, that they're much more used to seeing yellow faces,
              or that they think I have a cute sister or cute female Asian
              friends. Even a lot of smart white men on motd have a
              preference for Asian women (jrleek, ulysses, ax, erikred, etc).
   \_ I've never stated a preference for Asian women.  I love all
      women.  And how did I become a smart white man?  Most people
      on the motd think I'm a friggan idiot!  Maybe you have me
      confused for someone else?  Thanks for the compliment though.
      My wife is Italian, if it matters.  I find I have some kind of weird
      genetic attraction towards white trash Irish women and Latinas,
      presumably since I am both Irish and Spanish. -ax
              All powers to friendly and tolerant white men in the Bay Area.
                However, I've had a much tougher time with white women in
              general. Although I've met a few friendly ones (heck I even
              went to prom with a white girl), IN GENERAL I find it hard to
              approach them. I can easily demonstrate this phenomenon when my
              white buddies and I go to the mall and we separately try small
              talks with cute blond clerks. You can easily tell that they're
              usually friendlier and more flirty with someone who's more blond
              and/or whiter, and they don't even make any effort to hide it.
              In general I don't have good impressions with white women-- many
              are shallow or bitchy. Maybe this is one of the many reasons why
              smart white men in the Bay Area prefer my kind, I don't know.
                To address the original post, let me just say that I haven't
              really experienced discrimination in my life. However I suspect
              racism still happens a lot in the backdoors of managements,
              especially for jobs that are predominantly white. My parents used
            \_ Preferentialism is everywhere.  That's why there's the Indian
               Mafia, the Persian Highway, the Sisterhood, etc.  If anything,
               white males are *less* obvious about their preferences, though
               Mario and his Italians are the most infamous exception.
               \_ What about Luigi?
                  \_ ^Luigi^Luca.  Mario begot Luca.
              to tell me that when they came to the US in the early 80s (not
              in the Bay Area) to rent and later to buy a house, they'd often
              get ignored or get rude white folks who don't seem to want to
              help them. A lot has changed in the past few decades.
              \_ Well, as a white guy, random white people tend to tell me
               things they wouldn't say outright to people of other races
               because they feel more comfortable. I find that lots of
               white people are racist against blacks and Mexicans (not
               Hispanics, but specifically Mexicans). They tend to think
               that Middle-Eastern, Jewish, and Indian people are weird.
               As for Asians, I have to say I don't hear much about them
               except how they are smart, wealthy, and build big, ugly
               houses. That stereotype is just as offensive to me as if
               they were considered poor and stupid. FWIW, I have had lots
               of people (even Asians themselves) tell me to never work
               for a Korean or a Chinese. Where do Filipinos fit into
               this? I think they get the short end of the stick.
               \_ Are you an Italian?
         \_ Anytime you try to generalize to such a large group as
            "white people" you are going to be off the mark. I am sure
            there are racists everywhere, but my experience is that
            white/asian relations are very good in San Francisco. If
           anything, they are the ones tolarating us, since they
            anything, they are the ones tolerating us, since they
            are in the majority now.
           \_ Hot asian women are always welcome!
            \_ Hot women of any race are welcome.
           \_ Um. I think everybody is racist. Living with other types for
              long enough usually forces people to accept that they're human
              too. Stereotypes remain. I think it's possible to not be racist
              as such but it's easy to resent immigrants because they do
              change the character of the places they come to. In the bay area,
              so many of the Asians are not very Americanized and often have
              traits that I might find annoying. I don't really fit in with
              "standard" American culture either though. When I was in school in
              the bay area, the largest group of people with similar culture
              was the Chinese/TW immigrants. The other kids put together were
              a sizable group but they were of various types. So my
              perception was that of the Asian kids being a bigger group than
              the white kids. When the population is composed of various groups
              that tend to stick together it's halfway like living in a foreign
              country. Not that long ago, the Bay Area character was completely
              different. So obviously this is "threatening" but at least from
              my perspective I don't have a family legacy here and have no real
              basis to complain.

6/16    Happy Bloomsday ... unhappily apparently uncelebrated by GOOG.
              "How sick, sick, sick I am of sloda! It is the
               machine of failure, of rancor and of unhappiness."
        \_ If the GOOG icons indicate what they like or don't give a damn about
           then it's clear that they really give a damn about Christians and
           don't give a damn about Muslims.
           \- come to think about it, i think they did do an icon
              last year ... i guess BLOOM100 was worth it but BLOOM101
              doesnt cut the mustard.
           \- actually come to think about it, i think they did do an icon
              last year ... i guess BLOOM100 was worth it but BLOOM101 doesnt
              cut the mustard.
           \_ It might in muslim countries.  They don't do an icon for
              Korean independance day in the states, but they do in Korea.
              \_ Are you sure? I swear I saw the main banner modified to have
                 Korea's yin-yang with the i-ching doohickeys this one time.
                 -- ulysses
                 \_ No, I'm not really sure.  Korean independence is 8-15,
                    I don't recall seeing anything last year, but i could
                    be wrong.  Of course, it could've been a different
                    holiday too, chusuk or solal.
                    \- aug 15 is india's indep day too.
                       \_ That's interesting.  That's actually "Korean
                          independence from Japan" day, ie V-J day.  I
                          assume India's is from the British?
                          \- well the day is slightly artifical. the indians
                             were negotiating with the british when to do the
                             handover and after consulting with some religious/
                             astrology types, they picked aug 15 as an
                             auspicious day. then the  pakistanis picked
                             aug 14, just to be different, but the moment of
                             indep, was midnight and the same for both
                             countries. FYI: this is where phrase "freedom
                             at midnight" or S. RUSHDIE's title "midnight's
                             children" comes from. although if you are asking
                             from whom this indep came, this may not especially
                             resonate with you. functionally Dae Han Min Gook=
                             Vande Matram.
                   \_ Do Koreans also celebrate the split of North and South
                      on V-J day?  Do they even remember how they got split
                      up in two?  I don't see any koreans who resentment USA
                      for this.
                      \_ Ummm... no, why would they celebrate the split?
                         They don't like it.  And there are plently of
                         They don't like it.  And there are pleantly of
                         Koreans who resent the US for it, but given the
                         choice between being split and being all one big
                         NK or a province of China, I think most are see
                         it as better than the alternitives.  Don't know
                         many koreans, do ya'?

6/3     Connie Chung is a Jew?
        http://www.nndb.com/people/756/000024684
        \_ "Is Jewish" is the phrase you probably want to use.
                \_ why? just curious.
           \_ You're dumb.
        \_ She married a Jew, so (like it says at the bottom) she
           converted to Judaism.
        \_ mmm....Jewish Korean American princess.  Is that double
           the maintenance?  *bwahaha*
           \_ Page says she's chinese, not korean.  Does that make you a
              racist?
              \_ God damned right!  I am a racist!  Korean American Princesses
                 are so high-maintenance, it's a wonder anyone marries them
                 at all.  I have no idea how high-maintenance Chinese American
                 Princesses are or if such a concept exists.
                 \_ Was your Korean gf high-maintenance, sky?

5/27    I read couple Chinese newspaper saying that 15 of F-117A is now
        in South Korea.  Does any of you knew about this?
        \_ http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-869425.php
           \_ This article implies over 100 F-117A are deployed around the world
              when only 54 remain. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-117-specs.htm
              when only 55 remain. http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=104
        \_ I read a lot of things in Chinese newspaper, some don't get
           reported in American media until a few days later. Why?

5/4     "Uhm. Tsu-Jae is Korean."
        \_ Yes, my friends and I know that. We just want to know how long
           it takes before jrleek realizes that. We're actually quite
           surprised considering that he married an Asian woman. Obviously
           he doesn't know, or doesn't care to know. At this point, we feel
           insulted enough and have decided that none of his messages are
           worth replying to.
        \_ Umm.. really?  There's no Korean syllable that would romanize
           to Tsu.  Are we talking about this person?  She looks Chinese,
           and her name sure isn't Korean. Maybe Chinese-Korean? -jrleek
           http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~tking
           Or are you saying kngharv is Korean?  I know no korean name
           romanizes to "King", although I guess you could translate the
           wang name. Never heard of anyone doing that though.

4/15    Retired Korean agents burn coffin of Japan ambassador.
           http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200504/200504150029.html
           \_ Sure everyone gets along so well in that region today, but what
              happens tomorrow when peak oil arrives?

3/4     North Korean diplomat talks about what NK things of the US.  There
        are some great quotes here.  BTW everything is Bush's fault.
        http://csua.org/u/b9d
         \_ Listen. Bush is a great president because he stands by his
            belief. Bush ousted Saddam who was personally financing
            Palestinian suicide bombers and was making ties to Al Qaeda.
            I don't care much about world and overal liberal perception of
            the US. The right thing to do is sometimes unpopular. Now go
            ahead and mock me with immature liberal insults.
            \_ This has got to be a liberal trolling, but on the off
               chance that it isn't: the "BTW everything is Bush's fault,"
               is a joke on the contents of the article.  Read it and come
               back.  Sheesh. -op
               \_ Sorry. I didn't read it at first because I thought it was
                  another liberal drivel. Thanks for sharing the article.
                  \_ First rule of motd: Do not respond to link
                     descriptions with out reading the link.
        \_ Story quotes:
           He believes that Americans have the wrongheaded notion that North
           Koreas are unhappy with the system of government under Kim Jong Il.
           "We Asians are traditional people," he said. "We prefer to have a
           benevolent father leader." ...
           The North Korean criticized some Japanese politicians' efforts to
           link the nuclear talks to the question of Japanese citizens
           kidnapped by North Korea in the 1970s and 1980s.
           "This was something done by a few overly enthusiastic people long
           ago," he said. "We tried to make amends.
           [Okay, between his being an idiot, or trying to sell us, I'm going
           to say the latter.]
           \_ Is it that hard to just let the kidnapped go home if they are
              really trying to make amends?
              \_ The big deal was that N. Korea sent over a body, said it was
                 so-and-so who was kidnapped and their papers.  Then testing
                 of the body showed it was someone else, and review of
                 documentation showed it was forged.  Japanese officials said
                 "What the fuck?!?"  And N. Koreans said, "Did you say
                 something?" and has been pretending not to hear.
                 This is why most of Japan is currently super-pissed.
                 \_ Lying commies.
        \_ I like this one:
           The declaration [of nuclear weapons possesion], which jarred
           U.S. officials, was not intended as a threat, he said, but
           merely a way to advance negotiations..."We were hoping for
           change from the U.S. administration. We expected some clear-cut
           positive change."
           Riiiighhht.
        \_ Highlights:
           "There is a question of what is a political prisoner. Maybe these
            people are not political prisoners but social agitators."
           "We should have food, shelter, security rather than chaos and
            vandalism."
           Yeah, food would be nice. When were they planning to provide that?
           Typical schizophrenic North Korean-speak.
           \_ I'm still trying to figure out the difference between a
              political crime and social agitation.

2/23    Hi, are there any Koreans who watch "Jewel in the Palace" on Ch26?
        Is the drama true to Korean history (the costumes, rituals, etc.)?
        Thx.  -- Chinese
        \_ I don't watch it, nor have I ever watched it, but if it's like
           most Korean dramas based on pre-modern society, the rituals are
           probably correct.  The costumes, however, are probably more
           vibrant than they actually were.

2/4     "The United States would dispatch 690,000 troops and 2,000
        warplanes if war breaks out on the Korean peninsula, according
        to a South Korean defense policy paper released Friday"
        \_ That seems like a lot. Anyone know how many troops we have?
           \_ I think if you count everyone in training, on leave, resupply,
              and doing 'back end' work it's about that many.  We have 125k
              active duty in Iraq and that's a stretch.
           \_ We won't need troops soon.  We'll have armored death robots
              within a few years.  -John
              \_ I think we should make Imperial Walkers.  Why not? Unlike
                 missile defence I'm pretty sure they would actually work.
              \_ I, for one, welcome our new robotic overlords.
        \_ Link?
        \_ doubtful. Marines fall short of recruitment, and is in trouble:
           http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/marines.recruiting.ap
           \_ Did you actually read your own link?  It doesn't say they're
              in trouble.  It says they were 84 recuits short of their
               3270 recruit goal in January, but they were 184 over
               the goal for that quarter.
        \_ There are only 450k active duty soldiers in the entire Army,
           so that seems like a bit of a stretch. I am sure we would
           activate the Reserves and pull in the IRR though and they
           number at least another 1/2M.

11/12   "Seoul May Ban North Korea College Web Site". I don't get it,
        why? Are they really that afraid of what the NK have to say?
        \_ Link?
        \_ http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=582&e=2&u=/nm/20041112/wr_nm/korea_north_website_dc
           \_ http://tinyurl.com/5wgpc
        \_ Wasn't the US media always make a big fuss about China
           blocking some external sites? hehe.
           \_ If SK starts blocking US media sites, they will raise a fuss too
        \_ The answer is, well, yes.  There are a few reasons. 1) Most of
           the polititions are old, and therefore can harken back to the
           the politicians are old, and therefore can harken back to the
           old days when Communism actually seemed attractive.  They may
           have friends who migrated north during the war, although most
           of the migration was south, of course.  Another problem is that
           korean youth are, by and large, surprisingly easy to
           manipulate.  The schools don't teach critial thinking, and push
           a lot of nationalistic propaganda, which results in the North
           Korea love seen amoung many young South Koreans.  Finally, in
           the NK/SK conflict the internet is a one-way communication
           medium.  NK can push propoganda to the South, but northerners
           can't read any SK propoganda, so it's a bum deal for the south
           from that perspective. -jrleek
           PS The article meantions that all they're really doing is
           applying the existing security law to a new medium.
           Communication with NK is heavily curtailed in SK.  Although I
           agree with Roh Moo-hyun that these laws ought to be repealed
           now.

9/11    Mushroom cloud over NK (probably not a nuke):
        http://tinyurl.com/6sr6h
        \_ thanks, I dont read the news

9/7     Does anyone have any recommendations for Foriegn bands?  I quite
        like the Mexican Rock band Mana, and the Korean singer Boa is
        sometimes ok.
        \_ TaTu
        \_ Vladimir Vysotskiy, Brathanski, Garmarna, Yann Tiersen, Ali
           Primera, Gilberto Gil, Bebel Gilberto, Astrud Gilberto, Tom Ze,
           Os Mutantes
        \_ If you like rap, MC Solaar has his moments.
        \_ Plastilina Mosh?  Phil's Finest Hour?  Chico Cesar?  Damien Rice?
        \_ Los Fabulosos Cadillacs (actually a hybrid) and Manu Chao are two
           of my favorites. Also, he's been dead for years but nobody's life
           is complete w/o some exposure to Serge Gainsbourg, like him or not.
            -- ulysses
        \_ Do you mean non-English-speaking, or just foreign bands you may
           not have heard of?  I'm a big fan of the Aussie band The Cat
           Empire.  You might also have good luck with the BBC's The World:
           http://www.theworld.org/globalhits/index.shtml
           On a totally unrelated note, has anyone here heard the new Bjork
           album? The two tracks I've heard sound pretty sweet.
        \_ Sektor Gaza, russia most popular rock n roll band
           \_ This must have been a joke, but anyways, just don't listen it in
              front of someone who speaks Russian.. As for Russian rock bands,
              DDT is certainly the best. The rest are just wannabes.
              \_ sektor gaza is awesome! check out these song
                 titles: http://csua.org/u/8y1 -danh
        \_ Hedningarna, Finnish techno-rock-folk group.
        \_ It'd be helpful if you mentioned what type of music you were
           interested in, but:
                Brazil: Carlinhos Brown, Caetano Veloso, Os Mutantes, Tom Ze
                Argentina: Reynols, Astor Piazzolla
                Scotland: The Delgados, The Pastels
                Scandinavia: 22-Pisterpirkko, Pan sonic, Stina Nordenstam,
                        Flesh Quartet, Sigur Ros
                Germany: Jan Delay, Absolut Beginner, Can, Neu
                France/Africa: Les Nubians, Khaled, Natacha Atlas
                \_ Finland: FINNTROLL
           Check out http://allmusic.com and/or pick up a copy of the Wire.
        \_ Why do you hate America?

8/19    US isolated and ignored, while the world party with N. Korea
        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/international/asia/20korea.html?hp
        Read second page on how NK is changing for the better already.
        Is it time to go flip flop flip flop flip flop?  - kimchi troll
                                                                \_ lol!
        \_ Kim Jong Il is flip-flopping!  Let's vote to turn him out!
        \_ Bush should fly his brother there on a 'diplomatic' music mission
           like WJC did.  That would really help!
           \_ Well, they weren't reprocessing fuel rods then...

8/19    Did someone hate Douglas J. Feith?  Column he submitted to Post ystrdy:
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13742-2004Aug18.html
        \- wow, he's the clarence thomas of the defense dept. --psb

8/14    http://csua.org/u/8le
        Anyone have pics of the actresses/artists mentioned in this article?
        \_ http://www.koreanwiz.org/at/actors27.html
           http://my.dreamwiz.com/wonbean/profile.html
           It was hard to find a pic of Lee Yu Jin until I bothered to
           spend 2 seconds on Google. Idiot.
        \_ Back in the days of WEB (basement of Evans, in case you forgot),
           my asian classmates all had desktop background of very nice asians
           girls, some naked but none like the sluts you see on porn site.
           Where can I/did they find these pictures?

6/14    http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5414783
        Korean dumpling is rotten. This reminds me of the time when I bought
        a bottled Korean Ginseng drink and got a huge headache and bloody
        red eyes. I don't trust Korean made food anymore.
        \_ Try fresh ramen or the rice.  That shit is really good.
           Also the quality of their tofu is excellent. Pulmone brand is my
           favorite.  You can actually smell the freshness when you open
           the packaging.
        \_ Won't somebody PLEASE think of the SHIN RAMYUN!
        \_ Isn't all Korean food basically rotten?  I thought that was part
           of the process (letting it ferment).
           \_ Bad troll, no kimchee.

6/9     How do you go about watching a more obscure Olympic sport like judo or
        archery?  Is there some sattelite station that broadcasts everything?
        \_ A lot of the more obscure stuff doesn't even get on film.  They
           might send 1 film crew as punishment... or they might not.
           \_ They all get covered by some country though.  Korea loves
              archery.  (They win every year).  I assume Japan likes Judo.
              (Although I've seen that on American TV too.)  I know you
              could probably watch the Korean coverege of the archery
              contest online. -jrleek
              \_ Excellent! That's the kind of info I was looking for.  So,
                 is foreign sports coverage something that I whould be able
                 to watch on someone's sattelite TV or what?

6/5     http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=486
        This jsut gets better and better.  Min Ji, the S. Korean who is
        quoted as saying "Something like that would never happen in S.
        Korea" claims she was misquoted!  (Check the comments below)
        \_ she's not bad looking...
        \_ That's funny and a little sad.  The J-press has been known to
           misquote, however, so it's not that surprising. Then again,
           is it just me or is her English a lot more natural in her
           comments?  Hmmmm.
           \_ it's not just u.  I noticed it too.
           \_ Only the Japanese press misquotes?
              \_ Of course not.  Don't be silly.  The J-press is just rather
                 more notorious for it.
           \_ From the page: "We (readers) have to remember that these
              are not the words of the respondants, but translations (or
              mistranslations), and context may also be missing. The
              accuracy is now in serious question, and not just for Min Ji.

6/3     http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&u=/ap/20040603/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/rumsfeld_asia_2&printer=1
        There's 187,000 available troops with no draft.
        \_ What part about "we cannot keep our troops in combat zones
           year after year without degrading their effectiveness" don't
           you understand?

6/3     Here's 184,000 troops that don't need to be where they are.
        http://tinyurl.com/26k96 (news.yahoo.com)

4/29    You too can support North Korean Freedom!
        http://www.nkfreedom.org/nkfa.html
        \_ Where can I buy portraits of the Great Leader?
        \_ Meanwhile, Blizzard just released a new patch for Starcraft, and
           millions of South Koreans rejoice.
           \_ Pfft. Starcraft, hah.  Now, when they release the next Lineage
              mod, then you'll see dancing in the streets of Seoul

4/22    CIA operation missed North Korean leader but killed 3,500 civillians.
        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/22/international/asia/22CND-KORE.html?hp
        \_ I'm be impressed if the CIA could pull that off.  Really, even
           missing Kim Jong Il, this kinda thing is gonna cause serious
                   \- Greetings, Earthlings!
                      \_ What?  I don't get it.
                         \- YMWTGF(kim jong il greetings earthlings) --psb
                            \_ Ok, what does YMWTGF stand for?  I even
                               googled it.
                               \- YMWTGF(YMWTGF) -> nil --psb
                            \_ Yo Mothertrucker Wastin mah Time, Google For ..
                            \_ You must have _this_ IQ to ride this thread.
           problems.  Making it even MORE difficult for NK to get oil...
           \_ Maybe it's a NK conspiracy to blame the explosion on a terrorist
              act on the CIA so that NK can declare war on the US and take
              over SK while we are still tied up in Iraq.
              \_ NK is in no shape to take over SK.  Its nuclear project
                 is a last ditch attempt at survival.
              \_ Yeah, that would be a pretty bad idea for old NK.  Not
                 that I don't think Kim Jong Il can't be that stupid...
                 Basically all NK has left is its ability to cause more
                 destruction that SK wants to put up with.
        \_ What little believability there is left disappears if you consider
           Dubya as the one squishing the axis of evil
                      \_ actually, he is in the process of trying to squish
                         Afghanistan elements and Iraq, so I guess it's
                         possible he just went after North Korea!
           \_ Well, some idiot in the planning assumed that communist train
              must always run on schedule and so caused a delayed explosion.
           \_ Does CIA always claim responsibility in mainstream media?
        \_ How do we know the CIA wasn't involved in the Kennedy assassination?
           Well, he's dead, isn't he?
        \_ MASS GRAVES!
           \_ DEAD ARMENIANS!
           \_ No no.  You're not using it right.  MASS GRAVES only applies to
              Iraq threads.  IRAQ IS THE STANDARD THREAD!
              \_ You fool!  Standards like that will destabilize the
                 Middle East for years to come!
                 \_ Why do you hate America?
                    \_ The only way to make this thread more generic is to
                       censor it.
                       \_ Only liberuls censor generic threads.

4/14    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14444-2004Apr15.html
        This is a fairly good run down on S. Korea's recent election.
        It's mainly interesting because most American's assume that this
        means Koreans are turning anti-American and pro N. Korean.  Which
        is true to some degree, but my wife (who is Korean) belives this
        has more to do with a backlash against GNP corruption, and the Uri
        Party (Roh Moon Hyun's party) being realitively anti-corrution.
        Impeaching the president really went over badly for the GNP.
        -jrleek
        \_ when did you get married?
           \_ 1/31/2004.  You can see a picture or 2 of my wife on
              my csua webpage. -jrleek    BTW, who's asking?
              \_ congrats! -dwc

4/8     On Al-Jazeera, an announcer read a statement he said came with the
        video .... "Three of your sons have fallen into our hands," the
        Al-Jazeera announcer read. "We offer you two choices: either pull
        out your forces, or we will burn them alive. We give you three days
        starting the day this tape is broadcast." Japan's NHK television
        identified the captives as two aid workers and a journalist. The
        passports shown in the video belong to: Noriaki Imai, born 1985;
        Soichiro Koriyama, 32; Nahoko Takato, 34. The gunmen also displayed
        a press card for Koriyama from the weekly newspaper Asahi. ...
        Associated Press Television News obtained a copy of the full video,
        which also shows four masked men pointing knives and swords at the
        captives as they lay on the floor of a room with concrete walls. At
        one point, a gunman holds a knife to the throat of one of the men;
        his eyes widen in panic and he struggles to try to get free. The
        woman weeps and her lips move as if speaking. There was no audio to
        the footage. -NY Times (today)
        (The article also describes the method by which eight Korean Christian
         missionaries were also kidnapped, now subsequently released.)
        \_ Will they saran wrap them up first? The Japanese love that.
        \_ If they execute them, nuke their city.
           \_ Which city? All of them???
              \_ Nukes are cheap.  We've been spending big bucks to dismantle
                 them for 20 years.  Use a few.
        \_ Whenever I see someone threatening to slit someone's throat
           (as it happened with Pearl and probably some of the 9/11 flights),
           I think of this video:  http://csua.org/u/6tv  NOT WORK SAFE.
           Probably the most horrible video I've ever seen, and I've seen
           all of soda's famous ones.  This is no joke.
           \_ that's pretty damn horrible/scary...  Who was the poor guy?
              \_ Care to elaborate for those who opt not to view it?
                 \_ They stick a knife in the guy's throat, and slash it,
                    and then cut his head off.  It's really awful.
              \_ it's propaganda footage from Chechen rebels.  The guy is
                 a captured young Russian soldier.
                 \_ We're supposed to be pitying the poor rebels, right?  If
                    not, would it help their acuse if they sent their kids
                    into civilian areas wearing bomb belts?
            \_ that is nothing, in Indonesia, the muslim bastards
                killeda 14 year old Chinese christian girl by sticking
                a sword, edge side up into her vagina, thrusting it all
                the way till the hilt hits her vagina, then proceeding
                to cut open her torso from vagina to chin. nice
                religion.

1/9     Finished Medal of Honor Rising Sun. Graphics is definitely better than
        the first one. However, the storyline sucked. They should have made
        the last round relating to atomic bomb (bombadier, gunner on B-29,
        etc). Also it's so stupid that they had to kill every single Asian
        guy, even the good ones working for U.S. (Tanaka). It's like that
        movie Anti-Trust and other Hollywood movies-- you must kill all Asian
        men, good or bad.
        \_ Feeling a bit emasculated as an asian male, are you?  This reminds
           me of the time I was walking behind these two asian dudes right
           after brandon lee killed himself and they were talking in a very
           serious way how his death and bruce's death only goes to prove
           there is a whitey conspiracy to demasculinise the asian male.
           I love you guys.  BTW, are you a Hoyt Sze fan?  Maybe his younger
           cousin or something?
                \_ After he killed himself?  He was accidentally shot during
                   the making of the Crow.
                \_ definitely. The white culture is all about domination of
                   the weaker race, subduing their power and dignity and
                   taking away all the other women. Look at all the
                   Westernized colonies and Asia in general. They're mostly
                   puppet states and are really owned and influenced and in
                   some cases controlled by Westerners. The Japanese should
                   have won and taken Asia back. Oh, and N Korea rewls, they
                   have a lot of guts to stand up against the Western
                   bullies-- they will not be the last one to do so.
                   \_ It's times like this when it's a little tricky to sort
                      the trolls from the psycho idiots.

9/8     http://asia.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3408521
        Sigh... once again world leaders were unprepared for the obvious and
        easily foreseen.  Only a week ago Japan announced they're going to
        _start_ spending $2b/year for the next 5+ years.  SK has no plans for
        defense at all.  And in the next year we have a good chance of seeing
        a few million people anywhere in the region go up in smoke.  Literally.
        \_ According to the 2003 CIA world factbook the military budgets
           for these countries in 2002 were (roughly):
           S. Korea:  $13B
           Japan: $40B
           \_ Percentage for missile defense?  near zero.
        \_ Kim Jong-Il isn't going to do anything. Why not?  Because he'll
           lose if he tries.  Kim Jong-Il's most important goal is survival.
           He merely wants to give off the appearance of being crazy so he
           can blackmail donor countries.  If he did anything, we would
           invade and he would lose. for sure.
                  \- it's probably actually the case that NKorea is
                     willing to "bid" to higher risk levels. going with
                     the poker analogy, bluffing might be just that when
                     it comes to a single round of poker, but the willingness
                     to run higher risks has implications across repeated
                     interactions. in a MAD world you dont directly threaten
                     the other side, but you threten the other side with
                     your willingness to risk things going out of control.
                     this model applies in a certain modified way in the
                     north korean case. lit. references skipped. BTW,
                     pico iyer has an interesting travel essay on NK
                     from a few yrs back in "tropical classical" i think.
                     there is also an interesting frontline on NK. --psb
           \_ You know, that's very similar to what people said about Saddam
              Hussein: he'd either use/have WMD's or allow the inspectors in.
              1) we haven't found WMD's (which of course brings up nasty
              questions of either intelligence failure or someone else getting
              the weapons.
              2) he didn't let inspectors in
                 \_ uhh, revisionist history here?
                    \_ Thanks for the correction--I must be hanging out with the
                       wrong crowd.  His obstruction in 1994 led the inspectors
                       to believe that they couldn't accomplish anything (and
                       hence the left).  The UN resolutions in 2002-2003 were
                       for Hussein to lead the inspectors to WMD's or produce
                       evidence that the weapons had been destroyed.  No one
                       expected him to let his country be invaded rather than
                       comply.
                        \_ the inspectors left in 1998.  Not 1994.  Also
                           he did start producing serious evidence there were
                           no WMDs, but the adminstration went to the
                           the rest of the world and said he was lieing and
                           they had evidence to prove it.  Funny how now they
                           are backing away from that and hoping most people
                           wont notice or care.  Which is working in the US
                           but isn't working too well outside of the country.
                           And as has been proven recently the US CAN'T go
                           it alone unless they are willing to make sacrafices
                           and pay through the nose.
                           \_ His evidence was late and weak thus leading to
                              the reasonable assumption + intelligence that
                              there were easily found WMD.  Hussein's actions
                              still make no sense.  We had a large force at
                              his southern border and were making preparations
                              to invade that were so obvious CNN was showing
                              the work being done on international TV and he
                              still wouldn't blink.
                              \_ Perhaps he was not willing to fully
                                 cooperate because US is bombing his
                                 military capabilities even beyond the no
                                 fly zone, and has pretty much stated that
                                 we would try to assasinate Saddam if we
                                 find the chance?
                                 \_ No, your timeline is way off.  We were
                                    *way* beyond no fly zones and other
                                    sanctions era garbage at this point.  If
                                    he didn't blink it was clear he'd get
                                    invaded and crushed, party over.  No blink.
                                    You can't judge foreign leaders based on
                                    your local concept of common sense.
                                    \_ It was clear to him he would
                                       get invaded no matter whether he
                                       blinked or not.  US special forces
                                       is all over Iraq by that point, and
                                       condition for no invasion is for
                                       Saddam to step down and go into exile.
                                       Exile means US can assasinate him
                                       anytime it wants.  The voluminous
                                       evidence (several thousand pages) is
           \_ So how much of your half-eaten Cheetos did you spew all over
              your screen while typing that?
                                       not weak but as much as he can provide
                                       given that, as we now know, he really
                                       doesn't have any WMD.
                           \_ Obviously I need to stop posting late at night.
              There is no sane explanation for Hussein's actions.  Why do you
              expect Kim Jong-Il to be different?
           \_ There's a really interesting long ass article about
              Kim Jong-Il in last week's new yorker, I guess I could
              post it somewhere if you're interested.   now I feel
              like psb, this sucks. - danh
              \- evolutionary ameliorism
           \_ So you work for the State Department and have access to the
              psych profiles of foreign leaders?  What security clearance
              does that require?  Is there any other secret shit you can
                 maneuvering to prevent a war at all costs.  Keeping US
              share with us?  --super spy #1 fan
              \_ One doesn't need all that "secret shit".  It's common
                        \_ Umm, China constitutes > 70% of N Korean imports.
                           Since N. Korea has no natural resources or
                           domestic industry, this means in effect N.
                           Korea survives only through China.  PRC
                           military wants military parity with the US
                           ~ 2025, their generals and military reports
                           are very specific that they view the US as
                           adversary.  Sorry you are wrong (unless of
                           course you know more thant the entire US
                           defense establishment).
                 sense.  The problem with US intelligence services is
                 too much technology and too little common sense.  Kim
                 wants to hold on to power for the long term, and to do
                 that his best model is the PRC.  Unfortunately, US
                 sanctions is preventing him from following in the PRC's
                 footsteps.  He also faces much more serious military
                 pressures and burden as compared to the PRC.  South
                 Korea poses much more of a threat as the better
                 model than Taiwan vis-a-vis the PRC, since
                 Taiwan is so small compared to PRC.  Yes, Kim might
                 strike if he is cornered.  If you let him have a way
                 out, he would take the way out.  I think US wants to
                 take him out whereas S. Korea prefers a more moderate,
                 slower, but less risky way.  Maybe if PRC continues to
                 prosper economically, it can pull N. Korea out of
                 economic disaster even with US sanctions.  Either take
                 Kim out ASAP or help him with economic liberalization
                 are both better than the current impasse.
                 \_ No, it isn't common sense to threaten your neighbors and
                    the US with nuclear weapons if you expect to survive long
                    term.  If staying alive and in power was his goal, he's
                    chosen a suicidal and foolish path that only a mad man
                    would take.  How do you see 10+ years of nuclear weapons
                    and missile development in a starving nation as a means
                    of survival as common sense?
                    \_ If S. Korea, Japan, US feels threatened by N. Korea,
                       how do you think N. Korea feels about the might of
                       the US?  If N. Korea's military is weak, US and
                       S. Korea would likely have taken it out a long time
                       ago, given that USSR is no more and PRC is more and more
                       unwilling to support the liability that is N. Korea.
                       \_ Sigh... if the US wanted to take out NK we could do
                          so right now.  NK can *never* be so strong that we
                          can't take them out.  You have it all backwards.  The
                          *only* reason to take them out is they're getting too
                          strong and building WMD and the means to use them
                          *and* are suicidally threatening to do so.  Otherwise
                          no one would care what a backwater starving nation
                          run by yet another psycho is doing to it's people.
                          \_ not "no one." South Korea would care.  Most
                             south Koreans still have family over there.
                          \_ Sure and USSR could have taken out Afghanistan.
                             Just throw a few nukular bombs and then send
                             in the whole damn Red Army.  3rd grade arguments
                             aside, the question is always, "At what cost?".
                             And no, the reason N. Korea is more and more a
                             concern is not that they are getting too strong
                             but that they are getting too weak and unstable,
                             and of course, the above stated desires of S.
                             Koreans to have a united nation.  As for caring
                             about "backwater starving nations", it's all
                             about projecting power and securing interests,
                             like in Iraq, or Philippines in the last
                             century.
                 \_ don't forget that the current PRC model all started
                    with Mao being *dead*.  all through the idiocy of the
                    great leap forward and the cultural revolution
                    there were moderate leaders ready to turn China into
                    a real country, and without the maniac dying all this
                    was totaly impossible.  Kim is NK's maniac.
                    \_ Mao is a brutal dictator but not a maniac.  Yes,
                       GLF is sheer stupidity but I think Mao really
                       believed it would work, at least initially.  As for
                       the GPCR, it is Mao's calculated bid to return to power.
                       The PRC model (a more basic version) has been
                       experimented upon off and on since the commie
                       takeover, by the likes of Zhou, Liu and Deng.
                       Mao did not like it too much not because of its
                       merits/problems but because it gives too much
                       power to Liu and others, sidelining Mao.
           \_ [troll purged]
           \_ In Washington the 'common sense' prevailing intelligence is
              that North Korea is China's client state.  They are
              maneuvering to force the US off of the Korean peninsula
              so China can expand its sphere of influence. DUH.
              \_ PRC's main concern is much more than whether US troops is
                 on the Korean peninsula.   It's biggest fear is war on
                 the Korean peninsula.  Politically, helping N. Korea would be
                 disastrous since PRC has good relations with S. Korea, and
                 need trade with Japan and US.  Not helping would be
                 disastrous since its people and military leaders would be
                 questioning why it is giving up what the previous generation
                 gave life and blood for.  Economically, it would be
                 disastrous for the whole region either way.  Militarily, it
                 would have a hard time matching US / S. Korea.  PRC is
                 maneuvering to prevent a war at all costs.  Forcing US
                 off the Korean peninsula is way down on the bottom of the
                 list.  This is all common sense, and very basic.

9/4     I love this shit.  This is legalization of pirates in the high seas,
        and USA is leading charge:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3082548.stm
        \_ pirates?  am i missing something here? it sounds like it's all
           the activity of various nations' navies.  when the US decides
           to let commercial fishermen with grappling hooks and hunting
           rifles board ships, then you can call it piracy.
           \_ Both of you should read up on maritime law before resorting
              to statements you can't back up.
              \_ it's not a question of maritime law, it's a question of
                 what the word "pirate" means.  If a warship attacks or boards
                 another vessel, that's not piracy.
                 Pirate:
                 "An armed ship or vessel which sails without a legal
                 commission, for the purpose of plundering other vessels on
                 the high seas."
              \_ in the good old days, you can't just goahead and board
                 other nation's ship in the internation water.  Am I
                 missing something here?        --OP
                 \_ you probably side with China in saying to stop WMD
                    you need to talk. Imagine if this program were in place
                    back in Oct 1962 - no Cuban Missile Crisis! Might makes
                    right - get over it!
                    \_ Don't you have any pride in our nation as a beacon
                       of hope for democracy and its ability to bring the
                       world together? Soft power and our ability to set
                       the world agenda towards human rights have earned us
                       much leverage and the admiration of the world. You
                       should reevaluate the nuance of soft power. --aaron
                 \_ when were these "good old days" exactly?  the good old
                    days are *right now*.  in _your_ good old days ships got
                    boarded all the time.  we called it piracy.  it still
                    happens in some back water parts of the world but is very
                    rare, that's why ships no longer carry canons, eh?
                    \_ that is my point at first place.  In name of
                       stopping WMD, we are acting like pirate of
                        caribean sea.  What happened if we are trying
                        board a North Korean ship boun to Syria in
                        middle of Indian Ocean, and North Korean in self
                        defense open fire upon US navy vessel?   -OP
                        \_ A military vessel stopping and searching a civ.
                           vessel on the high seas to search for contradband
                           is not piracy.  That should be your "point at the
                           first place".  Seriously, you're misapplying the
                           word.  You don't know what it means.  When a
                           US Navy destroyer or Coast Guard vessel stops a
                           ship, tosses the men overboard, sells the women into
                           slavery and keeps the cargo for later sale, please
                           post the URL on the motd and you can talk about
                           piracy on the high seas.  I think you're a troll.
                \_ The north korean ship is probably carrying nukes
                   or missiles or something nastier since that's about the
                   only thing north korea can export these days, so
                   I highly support boarding the bastards.  What do YOU
                   think the US should do?  Ignore it?
                        \_ "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
                            stand ready in the night to visit violence
                            on those who would do us harm" - Orwell
                            \_ It's a nice quote and always true for any
                               society that has a substantial civilian
                               population going back to Rome and earlier.

6/20    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/20/1055828474718.html  Looking
        back, I'm glad we didn't waste billions of dollars on that idiotic
        Star Wars thing now.  It would've been totally stupid to be able to
        maybe shoot down a handful of nukes when the Soviets had thousands.

5/8     North Korea, home of "the best health care system for people."
        http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2003/200305/news05/08.htm#11
        \_ We have hundreds of nuclear missiles pointed at your country,
           stupid American. -kjil
           \_ Nonsense.  You have 2 or 3 and nothing that can go across the
              Pacific.  Go ahead and waste Japan or SK.  Or both.
              \_ bombs are easy to smuggle in on a boat
              \_ NO!!!!! WE MUST NOT LET THEM WASTE THE H07 4ZN CH1X
                 IN KOREA AND JAPAN!!!! WE MUST PROTECT THE H07 4ZN
                 CH1X AT ALL COST!!!

5/4     The UN solves a critical hunger crisis with skill and diplomacy
        without resorting to military force in this link.  If it was the
        Bushies, you know the military would've been called in and we'd
        be bombing the whole place "in order to save it and feed the
        hungry": http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,449436,00.html
        \_ Kinda how they solved that Cultural Revolution, Khmer Rouge
           Korean crisis, Idi Amin, Rwanda...  Sorry to say it, but you are
           a moron, and Im putting it nicely.
           \_ Sorry to say it, but you got trolled, and I'm putting it
              nicely.
                \_ As did you...
        \_ That's pretty pathetic.

3/12    Beijing plans to use North Korea to help drive the US
        out of the Pacific - courtesy of FR
        http://www.brookesnews.com/031303zhang.html
        \_ The author is truly a man ahead of his time.

2/14    Regarding the US soldiers raping a korean soldier news.  During the
        first gulf war there were women POWs and they were raped by the Iraqis.
        I remember some media pundit saying that the men get raped too.  I
        always thought it's third world lowlifes that rape POWs.  But after
        reading that korean news, I'm convinced that our soldiers do the same
        in the battlefields.  It's like prison guards, they rape inmates not
        for the sex but for the violence and the power.
        \_ Soldiers are soldiers - all day with a male squad and no fun
           makes those killers hot and randy.  If you can brainwash them
           into killing all of 'them,' then raping 'them' is no problem.
        \_ and you know this because?
        \_ and you share your incoherent ramblings why?
        \_ The Japanese soldires did that to civilians in China during WWII,
           and they were no third world soldires.
           \_ and Korean civilians and Dutch civilians
              \_ Dutch civilians?  Where?
                 \_ Dutch East Indies (a.k.a. Indonesia).
           \_ The vikings, Mongols, Romans, and probably everyone else
              did this to POWs and conquered peoples throughout history
              to establish dominance and de-humanize their caoptives.
              It wasn't right then, and it's not right now.  And now
              that we can stop it, we need to do so.
        \_ American soldiers raped a lot of Vietnamese during that war.
        \_ Tell me the general public can now post to the motd.
           Can people at this school really be this stupid?
           \_ no and yes

2/13    http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/02/12/us.nkorea/index.html
        For those non-believers.
        \_ But it's Saddam that is the evildoer. Why are you trying
           to distract the American people? Are you some kind of communist?
        \_ We knew this in 1999, probably before.  Similarly, we knew about
           the nukes since 1998, and there was intelligence suggesting they
           had them all the way back to 92.  But its Bush's fault right?
           North Korean ICBM 'Shocker' Known Since 1999
           http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/842429/posts

1/15    Thank you Jimmy Carter.
        http://www.msnbc.com/news/859191.asp?0cv=CA01&cp1=1
        Death, terror in N. Korea gulag

1/14    On North Korea:  Please bear in mind that the rhetoric advanced by the
        Peerless Leader is hardly worse than what the state machine regularly
        churns out.  He wanted a reaction, he wanted negotiations and a place
        at the table, and he got it.  You can step away from Operation Liberate
        North Korea now, boys, 'cos it ain't gonna happen.  --erikred
        \_ We are not interested in liberating NK. We just want to keep
           SK free since it has all the h07 4zn ch1x! Think about the ch1x!

1/14    http://csua.org/u/7f7
        Why is Bush so afraid of these bastards?
        \_ Because N. Korea is known to be exporting missiles to rogue nations
           and N. Korea is also known to be developing nuclear weapons?
        \_ N. Korea has a lot to worry about.
           1. they are much closer to having the bomb, some even think
              they already got one or two
           2. technically, they are relatively sophiscated, as they did
                \_ NK does not have missles than can reach US soil.
                   They do have missle that can reach Japan and this
                   is why people are concerned.
           Any day now, we'll all be eating kimchi and speaking Korean our
              test 2 stage rocket
           3. they are in the state of starvation for past couple years,
              and starving person / state tend to do "irrational" things
           4. they are next to Russia and Chinese mainland, so U.S. need
              a bit careful about launching assault next to these big boy's
                 \_ Even if NK had them, they wouldn't launch an attack on
                    the U.S. Their main goal is preserving the current
                    regime, not suicide.
              border
           5. Launching assault from Japanese base does not go well with
                    \_ Yeah and the Sun revolves around the earth.
              Koreans nor Chinese.
           6. N.Korea is this close to Seoul.  If the north decided to
              attack the south unexpectly, it probably will succeed in
              taking Seoul (however brief the moment may be).  This doesn't
              go well with S.Korean's economy.
        \_ Because N. Korea is known to have exported missiles to rogue
        \_ Who says Bush is afraid of them?  They're not a threat.
           We must invade Iraq now!
           nations and N. Korea is also known to be developing nuclear weapons?
        \_ Probably because N. Korea has a shitload of nuclear that sit
           on top of long distance missles that can reach the Bay Area. IMO
           \_ And one day if you keep believing, you'll be a REAL boy.
              \_ Congratulations!  Welcome to the IDIOT CLUB!
                 \_ And you must be its president?
              \_ Obviously no-one has proof, but i think you're obtuse if
                 you don't think there's a possiblity.
                 \_ And monkeys might coming flying out my butt. I'd worry
                    more that Pakistan might sell one off than NK.
        \_ Because he's projecting his Evil-doer template onto North Korea.
           Any day now, we'll all be eating kimchi and speaking Korean to our
           new masters.
           \_ Second place winner in the IDIOT CLUB today!
           \_ That's not what Kim Il Jong wants.  He wants money and oil.
                              \_ And his name spelled correctly.

1/12    A unified 'no' to nuclear blackmail (Kissinger on N. Korea)
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/821349/posts
        \_ ohh shut up.  US has the largest stockpile of weapon of
           mass desctruction.  US is the one who have unleash such weapon
           against defendless civilian in the past. US is the one that
           didn't sign universal test ban treaty, didn't sign ban on
           Chemical / Biological weapon's ban. It is *US* who first labeled
           North Korea as member of "axis of evil."  It is *US* who
           decleared that we will pre-emptly invade anyone we want; and it is
           *US* who imposed a crippling economic sanction for the past 50 yrs.
           If I am North Korean government, I would think I am on the top
           of US's target list as well.
           \_ Not a bad troll.  Observe:
              decent show of 'enthusiasm,' strategically placed grammatical
              errors.  Not bad at all.  I give it a B+.

1/10    I don't understand why everyone's getting worked up about North
        Korea pulling out of the non-proliferation treaty.  They have poor
        engineering skills so there's really no chance of them developing
        nukes anyway.
        \_ that black dude said they already have nukes.
           \_ yeah, whatever.
           \_ Right, I heard months ago that they had nukes, but was think-
              ing "How the hell did they manage that? They don't build any-
              thing."
        \_ the new "cuba"
        \_ Pakistan, a country with a much smaller defence budget,
           managed to create it's own nukes.
           \_ with the help of South Africa

1/8     I feel sorry for these guys:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/08/international/asia/08SEOU.html
        \_ Has it ever been different for an occupying army? How would
           you like it if Bangeladeshi troops were stationed here?
                          \- "bangladesh"
           \_ If the Canadians had a million men on our border and were making
              continuous noise about the revolution they're going to bring
              south and my country couldn't defend itself, I'd be pretty god
              damned happy if the bangeldeshis were around putting their own
              lives on the line and spending a shitload of their own money
              to keep me safe so I could take over the bangeladeshi memory
              market and send zillions of spam to the bangeladeshi people
              through the thousands of open relays in our k-12 schools.
                      \- i think this is a spacific manifestation of
                         "if i an doing X for you with concrete benefits
                         but diluted returns" what do i expect in return.
                         e.g. usa and israel. --psb
        \_ http://www.geocities.com/baxterautry/News/why.html
           \_ My experiance in Korea was kinda similar to this, although
              I was a missionary, so I tried to stay out of those sort of
              conversations.  Basically, there's a giant college rumor
              mill that spreads these silly stories.  They're like Urban
              legends.  Kinda like how the "Free Mumia" system works.
              Some body hears something, doesn't check the facts, and
              passes it on. -jrleek

10/19   Iraq and korea
        "When confronted in 1994 by incontrovertible evidence
        North Korea was building nuclear weapons and delivery systems,
        Clinton chose to bribe rather confront Pyongyang."
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/772156/posts

11/15   man take your sick anti-loyal trash to North Korea.
        stupid so-called 'conscience objectors" like you should try
        living there and see if you can produce this kind of self-
        destructive thought. (Voluntarily decline supporting your
        own military?!?) It sickens me that sickos like you are
        protected by the 1st Amendment.
        \_ "Love it or leave it" and "My country right or wrong".  Your
           opinions are invalid.  Man take your sick fanatic nationalist
           trash to North Dakota.  Jesus H. Christ, man, please get
           a fucking clue.  -John
        \_ good point! you tell 'em!
        \_ Not to defend the other guy (I missed what he said anyway), but
           what you're trying to say is, 1st Amendment is good as long as
           you're patriotic and you don't voice a dissenting opinion.
        \_ http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1657000/1657368.stm
           Mullah Omar notes a larger plan for the destruction of America.
           He says, with God's help, this will occur in a short period of time.
           He asks you keep in mind this prediction.
           \_ Sort of like Nostradomus.
           \_ Sort of like Osama.
        \_ I dug up the original post from the archives.  It was the standard
           anti-war protester meeting from the usual suspects.  I don't see
           why it got this big response or what NK has to do with it.

11/1    Cold war's over and there hasn't been a dog fight since the 80s.
        Why the heck do we need F-22s and Joint Strike Fighters when no
        other country has air dominance over the US?
        \_ Go look up the history of air battles in Korea and you'll know why.

9/12    North Korea's stance on the US attacks.
        http://www.kcna.co.jp/contents/12.htm#3
        \_ check out this part though: http://www.kcna.co.jp/contents/12.htm#8
           wtf?
           \_ Say whatever.  They don't mention that they are the ones who
              digged underground tunnels thru the 38-deg line and sent assasins
              into South Korea, and they sent agents to plant a bomb on a
              Korean Airline civilian flight.  Now that's from a country who
              said they're against terrorism.
              said is against terrorism.

9/12    How come nobody suspected North Korea for this attack?
        \_ Commies are not faceless cowards.
           \_ Didn't that Kim-something female agent from NK put a bomb in an
           \_ Didn't that Kim-something female agent from NK put a bomb in a US
              airline years ago?
                \_ Where is she now?  She was quite a HO7 AZN CH1C.
              \_ http://www.koreascope.org/english/sub/2/nk10_5.htm
           \_ Didn't that Kim-something female agent from NK put a bomb in a US
              plane years ago?
        \_ What does NK have to gain from doing this? They want American
           food and supplies to help their famine at home.

9/10    What are some last names that could be Asian, Caucasian, and Black?
        \_ Woods. Kill 3 birds with one stone.
        I'll start first:
        lee
        \_ The "Lee" among Chinese and Koreans are indeed the same last name.
           Of course this "Lee" is not actually related to the "Lee" among
           Caucasians and Blacks.  (Is that "Lee" short form of "Leland"?)
           \_ don't you know General Robert E. Lee was Chinese/Korean
        ???
        Park
        \_ What distinguishes Caucasian last names from Black? Unless you
           mean African?
           \- are there black lilas? [that sounds like a magic card].
           there are white, indian, middle eastern lilas. ok tnx --psb
        \_ Rosa Parks was black, not Korean.
                \_ And her last name was Parks, not Park.
                   \_ As written. Also, originally I wrote Park(s) to emphasize
                      the difference. Very similar names can be held by very
                      different racial groups.
        \_ Who really cares?
           \_ Just for fun.
        \_ -ian is common amongst Armenians.
           \_ The original poster was referring to Caucasian people as in the
              white race, not as in the people that live in the Caucasus, a
              mountainous region on the south of the eastern european Russia.
              As someone who was born in Caucasus, I do hate that Americans
              could not come up with a better term for "white people" -akopps
              \_ caucASIAN.
              \_ what about Chris Rock's suggestions, such as "yakoo" or
                 "honkaloid"?
        \_ Chandrasekhar

9/10    What are some last names that could be Asian, Caucasian, and Black?
        I'll start first:
        lee
        ???
        Park
        \_ The "Lee" among Chinese and Koreans are indeed the same last name.
           Of course this "Lee" is not actually related to the "Lee" among
           Caucasians and Blacks.  (Is that "Lee" short form of "Leland"?)
           \_ don't you know General Robert E. Lee was Chinese/Korean
           Caucasians and Blacks.
        ???
        Park
        \_ What distinguishes Caucasian last names from Black? Unless you
           mean African?
           \- are there black lilas? [that sounds like a magic card].
           there are white, indian, middle eastern lilas. ok tnx --psb
        \_ Rosa Parks was black, not Korean.
                \_ And her last name was Parks, not Park.
                   \_ As written. Also, originally I wrote Park(s) to emphasize
                      the difference. Very similar names can be held by very
                      different racial groups.
        \_ Who really cares?
           \_ Just for fun.
        \_ -ian is common amongst Armenians.
           \_ The original poster was referring to Caucasian people as in the
              white race, not as in the people that live in the Caucasus, a
              mountainous region on the south of the eastern european Russia.
              As someone who was born in Caucasus, I do hate that Americans
              could not come up with a better term for "white people" -akopps
              \_ caucASIAN.
              \_ what about Chris Rock's suggestions, such as "yakoo" or
                 "honkaloid"?
        \_ Chandrasekhar
        \_ Rosa Park(s) was black, not Ko-Rean.
        \_ Robert E. Lee, your friendly Confederate General Chinese/Korean
        \_ This thread sucks.

5/14    My rant of the day:  What is wrong with you Korean bible bangers?
        Stop harassing me... just cuz I'm reading by myself on the lawn
        doesn't mean I'm spiritually lost or need salvation.  so fuck off.
        \_ Korean bible bangers?
           \_ Ever been to Golden Bear at 6am?  I have (to do some last minute
              futile cramming for an 8am exam), and there were a large group
              of Koreans doing some sort of bible study.  I got the impression
              they do this regularly.  Seems like every Korean is part of one
              of a trillion churches in the neighborhood.
              \_ as long as they don't harass you to love Jebus, who cares?
        \_ Just call them traitors to shut them up. Ask if their ancestors would
           approve of them pushing some white religion.

9/21    http://www.f1.net.au/users/dan/hanging.htm
        \_ What is this, some kind of GOOK recipe book?
           \_ "How to stew your round-eye yankee POWs" - flavoured
              with agent orange.
        \_ sick.  i did see a skinned dog being sold.  i almost threw up
           and i did go into hysterics in the middle of a very busy korean
           market.

12/16   Korea clones human!
        http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9812/15/BC-KOREA-CLONING.reut/index.html
        \_ While Clinton bans human cloning in the US, other countries are
           already producing super intelligent beings, capable of crippling
           US intelligence and inventing high tech weapons of mass destruction.
           The "Pretender" vision is alive!
        \_ troll deleted
           \_ Clearly, they're evil and anti-christian.