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| 2004/7/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:31181 Activity:insanely high |
7/6 Any ideas from you folks about how to reverse the decline in
Engineering education and work in the US? It seems as though
this trend isn't changing, and meanwhile interest in Engineering
by Chinese students just continues to soar. How long before we
fall permanently behind?
\_ I think you have to start young. They guys I played with building
legos when we were in preschool are all engineers now.
\_ Don't worry, we still control the money.
\_ Engi-what? Can't we just ask God to build us a bridge?
\_ Dude! Faith-based architecture, and Evangelical Christian Feng
Shui! This would make an excellent Star Trek novel.
\_ China is still far behind. Name one decent Chinese high-tech
company. Dell is gaining on Legend in China itself. Cisco
will slaughter Huawei (how many even heard about Huawei?).
\_ I was thinking more in terms of the future and the educational
system, rather than simply in terms of companies. Engineers
have to come from somewhere, you don't just pick them off the
Engineer tree.
\_ Actually, we have been picking them off the Engineer
trees, trees from all over the world, while US
produces relatively fewer engineers, they tend to
be fairly good ones.
\_ This is due to a lack of money, not lack of talent.
\_ Talent is just one of many things. Lots of countries
have talented engineers including Russia and many
European countries, but we are still very much ahead
of all of them.
of all of them. Why? Because the best opportunities
are in the US, so their best engineers all come here.
\_ Again, like I said, money.
\_ money is part of it, but also the entrepreneurial
spirit, openness, diversity, corporate culture,
creative environment, etc.
\_ Good point. All these can be learned, to some
degree (and Chinese are very good at learning)
except money. It will take a while.
\_ not sure if it's easy to learn. the japanese
failed to learn it after all these years, and
neither did the europeans. it's kind of like
dell. everyone knows what makes it
successful, but they just can't successfully
copy its model. it could be especially
difficult for china given its current
political structure. maybe the EU can do
it eventually.
\_ Here's a NYTimes Magazine article regarding
China with regard to this very topic. Insert
obligatory whining about NYTimes if you wish.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/04/magazine/04CHINA.html
http://tinyurl.com/2t6o2 (nytimes.com)
\_ I have no doubt China is a juggernaut in
manufacturing, but can it take the next
step up and create its own world-class
companies. For example, the article
argues that manufacturers now supplying
say Motorola is now selling their own
phones. Sure. But can they sell well
outside China's borders? We have two
business models here. First is a Chinese
company doing everything, second is a
US company doing the branding, marketing,
design and distribution, and the Chinese
partner doing the manufacturing. So
far the second model is the better one,
and I am not convinced it's going to
change soon. Taiwanese companies like Acer
have tried to break into the US market
with their own brand but ended in failure.
Korean companies like Samsung have had
more success, and of course the Japanese
too. Haven't seen much from China so far.
\_ That's because, unlike Japan who changed
the implication of "made in japan" from
bad to good, stuff made in China hard-
core sucks.
\_ That's partly true. Even though many
of your nokia, motorola cell phones,
\_ That's partly true. Even though
China makes many of your nokia,
motorola cell phones,
dell computers, etc., they
still need the quality control set
up by your world-class companies
doing the manufacturing there.
But even the Japanese are finding
it necessary to shift production
to China to stay competitive.
Like I said, Chinese manufacturing
coupled with western/japanese
research, design, marketing,
branding and distribution seems to
be the most competitive model at this
juncture.
\_ obviously you know what are you
talking about. I want to add that
don't discredit Chinese brand
completely yet. It takes years
if not decades of effort to build
up brand (which implies R&D and
quality control), and Chinese
company has one small advantage
over all its Asian tiger: huge
domestic market. People may think
Huawei is just a Cisco knock-off,
but if your memory last long enough
you might remember that Japan was
doing the exact same thing in the
past. Then, there is a company
called TCL, which pumps out
40 million cell phones a year yet
no one really hearrd of them before
With their shear size, they slowly
start to gain advantages in
component price, etc, and soon or
later they will have enough spare
cash to try to establish its own
brand.
\_ Wow. Eye find it totally
easy two respect you're
arguments. Keep thee rebukes
cumming.
\_ While market size of China is
big, unlike Japan and South
Korea at a similar stage of
development, due to WTO,
China's market is more
open to foreign companies and
competition, making it tougher
to nurture domestic brands.
The thing about free trade is
that it tends to strengthens
existing competitive advan-
tages, and makes it harder
to develop new competitive
advantages.
\_ Allow the return of competition to the public schools.
\_ cf Battle Royale!
\_ What on earth are you talking about? Something competing
with the public schools? People in the schools competing
with each other? How will either of those get Americans
interested in Engineering again?
\_ Being graded on merit and not worrying about social issues
force students to excel. That's waned significantly in
recent years.
\_ Worrying about social issues? Excuse me? I think your
assertion is lacking in both clarity and evidence.
Of course this is the motd, so go for it! Anyway, I think
the below poster is a little closer to the core issue
than you.
\_ Life skills, multiculturalism, don't make anyone feel
bad, screen the Michael Moore movie at the NEA
convention. That kind of crap.
\_ The Dilbert experience, outsourcing, and long hours of solitary
staring at computer screens probably isn't that appealing to many
staring at computer screens probably aren't that appealing to many
Americans without the get-rich-quick carrot to lead them on.
Probably there are more opportunities in other fields here in
America than there are in China or India, so an engineering job
doesn't seem as desirable here. |
| 2004/7/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:31128 Activity:insanely high |
7/2 http://csua.org/u/80x U.S. sending 7 of its 12 carrier strike groups to glower at China this summer. -- ulysses \_ Their flower-power is no match for my glower-power. \_ nice. sugar daddy comes to our rescue again. teach those idiotic nationalistic gung-ho commie bastards some manners .... most likely, they will do something like US trade sanction against cuba instead ... and see whose economy collapses first. \_ It's based on unfound rumors. Sending 7 CSG to one spot is not only an overkill for a message but also very stupid. \_ yea, but there isn't much to do these days anyway ... \_ It's foolishness. It simulates a war footing against China. And even worse, it's deploying 10 out of 12 CSG at a single time, which means naval scheduling will be a mess for the year afterwards. The perfect time for China to invade is a month or two after the exercise while the US is recovering. \_ This is consistent. Foresight, planning and contingency preparation have not been BushCo's strong points. \_ Ah yes. The foresight to anticipate an Iraqi insurgency, the planning to award no-bid reconstruction contracts to Halliburton, and preparing for the contingency that we might not be showered with flowers. \_ Who exactly else in the whole world could have rebuilt an entire country like Halliburton is doing now? No one. There is no one else on the planet that could have bid. Some things just need to get done without bullshit and 24 month bid reviews. \_ well, it's an exercise. it seems reasonable to want to run though it for training purposes. it's politically incorrect but then so is communism. \_ When did communism become non-pc? \_ Communism has always been cool with the politcally correct crowd. They idolise it and its confused followers. \_ come on guys, an url from a 2nd hand ?news? site that is based on a speculation from another totally unreliable site (sina.cn) isn't really a solid starting point for a sound discourse. Oh, never mind. Neither is the motd. \_ But it would be cool if true since only 3 or 4 battle groups carries more than enough fire power to obliterate all signs of civilisation in China. \_ Yes it is true and fairly old news. Seven Carrier Strike Groups Underway for Exercise 'Summer Pulse 04' http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1146624/posts \_ Which is quite different from the op. |
| 2004/7/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:31115 Activity:very high |
7/1 Hey Pro-China guy: Are you trolling, or do you really think people
should stop blaming China?
\_ The PRC is the People's paradise on earth! The freedom from
evil capitalism and soul-crushing corporations have been
brought by the glorious revolution. China only has the most
altrustic motives for Asia! The Evil Bush is trying to claim
that China violates it's citizen's civil rights, but nothing
could be further from the truth! No one has died in China
since the revolustion, the joy and peace of the revolution have
since the revolution, the joy and peace of the revolution have
made all Chinese immortal! Move to China today!
-Pro-China guy #1 fan.
\_ I just think the media is very biased about China. It is a
great country, the majority of people are happy, life is
\_ tanklguy was awesome
improving, the economy is doing well. Sure, there are a lot
of things that can be done better, but the progress it has
made in the last 10-15 years is second to none. Out of the
\_ funny, I don't know what media, you read, but the media
I read pretty much says this about china, and little
else (well, recently there has been some "can it keep up
the pace") -phuqm
millions of stories that happen each day in China, the only
thing that gets reported in the western media is how bad
the Chinese government is. Oh, they did this, Oh they did
that. Give me a break. Some would very much like to see
China go the way of the Soviet and break up into pieces, do
you really think that's good for the Chinese people?
Democracy needs to come from within, not forced upon by
some bully. There are better things to worry about in this
country, like how BushCo fucked California and laughed all
the way to the bank.
\_ Yeah so when democracy comes from within, you should crush it
with tanks, right? BTW, what was the name of that guy who
stood in front of the tank? The one the entire world saw on
film? Oh that's right, we don't and will never know his name
because shortly after that was filmed he was taken to an
alley and shot in the head.
\_ They're still looking for the tank guy.
\_ So why can't the media report about Hong Kongers being unhappy
over freedoms they've lost since China took over? I mean,
200K+ people in HK really did get out to protest today.
I was not posting about China people being unhappy; I was
posting about Hong Kong people being unhappy.
\_ Goes to show that Taiwan should not unite with PRC
anytime soon.
\_ recent WSJ journal articles reported on the rise of many
middle class rooted, non-governmental organizations in
China including home owners' associations which fight
for the rights and interests of various communities of
home owners, thousands of environmental groups, etc.
Non-governmental organizations are important building
blocks for democracy, since they bunch like-minded
individuals together and give them support (finance,
expertise, organizational) and voice. Without them, it's
just the all-powerful government and powerless individuals.
Sounds like a very positive article to me. In fact,
many of the WSJ articles about China are very fair
and balanced, in my opinion. That's not to say that
some US media are very anti-China.
some US media aren't very anti-China.
\_ Until the Chinese government outlaws these organizations as
being anti-revolution and puts a bunch of their leaders into
insane asylums.
\_ they may try, but will they be successful? do not
underestimate the power of hundreds of millions of
little bourgeoisies. the population make up of
china has shifted in the past 3 decades.
\_ I am suspecting that the Chinse Communist Party will
fall out of power as hardliners die off. Never
underestimate the power of apathy. |
| 2004/6/30-7/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:31103 Activity:high |
6/30 "Voters are being pressured by employers and others to back
pro-Beijing candidates and encouraged to photograph marked ballots
with cell phone cameras to prove their patriotism."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16223-2004Jun29.html
\_ Sounds like a good market for faked photographs.
\_ Well, now that we're wriggling out of Iraq, maybe we can make
strong staments against China again.
\_ Exactly. How else can BushCo fuck the tax payer's money to make
them rich? China is the perfect 'enemy' after Iraq. Do we all
remember the spy plane incident? Yeah, they have us believe
China would nuke us any minute back then. Fuck BushCo, piece
of shit.
\_ I'm not a big fan of the rambling haters on the motd
either, but I don't think it is fair to impersonate/
charicature them like this, as perhaps (though it seems
unlikeley) someone will think it is an earnest post.
\_ Who's he impersonating, Lupo the Butcher?
\_ So what?
\_ You are in a maze of ignorance, surrounded by twisty passages,
all alike. I wish you would be eaten by a Grue.
\_ Stop criticizing China and spend your time on more
productive things, like vote Bush down and make sure
this country is not as fucked up as it is now. Geez.
What's next? Bush will send our spy planes to fly
REAL close to China and to provoke them to distract
us from his incompetence? Yeah, China is the biggest
threat to peace on this planet next to Iraq huh?
\_ The Washington Post is criticizing China.
The Post is also criticizing Bush policy.
Why not do both?
\_ I am just so fed up seeing all the anti-China
posts. BushCo stirs it up for its own evil
reason and the media buys it. Everything you
see in the media about China is negative. All
because of what? Because BushCo wants a public
enemy so they can dump the taxpayer's money
onto the defense companies and make them rich.
The problem with defense companies is they
don't go together peace and prosperity. BushCo
will get rich when the world is at war, and it
is what we are now. Wake up people, there are
bigger things to worry about than China trying
to convince its voters to vote for pro-beijing
leaders to keep their country intact.
\_ "convince" its voters
\_ Of course. China does not have laws that
legalize corruption. Political
contribution IS corruption legalized. In
China, some gets their head chopped off
for taking money, in the US, it's all
OK. Candidates openly ask for money, and
Bush surely made anyone contributed to
his campaign filthy rich, all legalized
and taken for granted. Perhaps there's a
lot China can learn from the US....
\_ Why is there a protest of 200K+ Hong Kongers
today? http://csua.org/u/80h
\_ Because HK people have been
brainwashed for centuries by the
Brits. They'd rather lick the feet
of a Brit than stand up and be a
man themselves. If your country is
occupied by someone else for so
long, you'll know. Just look at
Taiwan, they still 'look up' to
Japan, even though Japan invaded
them and treated them like 2nd
class citizen. Same thing with HK.
HK people are gutless because they
never ruled themselves. Having a
Brits at the top makes them feel
more secure, because that's the
way they are brought up to believe
in. Anything mainland China say
must be wrong.
\_ This is such an awful troll. Most
HK people have only been there since
the 50's or 60's. If you think Beijing
knows what's best for HK then I don't
know what to tell you.
-jeffwong
\_ I'm sorry, did you miss the Cultural
Revolution, the Gang of Four, and
Tianamen Square? PRC elites treat their
own people like 2nd class citizens.
Sure, bribery is punishable by death,
but you're much more likely to be
charged if you don't belong the Party
and toe the party line. It's not a
People's Paradise; it's an old-fashioned
oligarchy, and it needs to be squished.
\_ Every attempt to squish an oligarchy
results in a new and much worse
obligarchy. Communism is an example.
\_ uh oh ... I don't like BushCo's
fear-mongering with regard to
China, but I like Hong Kong
people's resistance to China's
attempts to silence dissent.
I don't see any contradiction
with holding both views. Attempts
to link the two is mostly unwarranted. |
| 2004/6/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:31010 Activity:insanely high |
6/25 Why did both the Mongols and the Manchus move their capitals to Beijing
when they conquered China respectively? Why would a superior country
want to move its capital from home to the inferior country that it
conquered?
\_ Haven't you ever read The Prince by Machiavelli? A full explanation
of why it's a good idea to move your rule to conquered territory
is contained in that.
\_ Your lack of historical knowledge is truly appalling. The Mongols
and the Manchus conquered China with the help of other Chinese
factions. In order to maintain China as a unified whole it was
always necessary to keep the capital in Beijing. Also, the
Mongol hordes were nomadic so they didn't exactly have a
concept of centralized government or planning. In order to
rule China proper they had to inherit the vast bureaucracy of
the previous dynasty.
\_ I see. My historial knowledge only came from three years of
Chinese Histroy classes in high school plus all those Mandarin
TV dramas on Ch26 over the years.
\_ next time stay awakey
\_ next time stay awake
\_ Thanks, Pai Mei. Now, go ahead and eat those fish heads.
\_ I would like to add several things. First. Beijing was a
small town prior to Mogols established its dynasty. The logic
behind establishing a city up in the north is that, believe or
not, they want to be able to bail out relatively easily in case
things went wrong (which it did in a relatively a short time of
120 years). Ming Dynasty, the dynasty established by ethnic
Hans, originally established the capital in Nanjing. It took
a political coup and an emporer of grand vision to decide that
it's easier to finish those mongols off if the capital is up
north. Manchus, the dynasty after that, decided that they
really don't need to burn down the perfectly fine palace like
all other ruling family did. So, they inheired the palace and
expanded. Mind you that at the time, Manchuria was three times
larger than what present Manchuria was. So, lattatude wise, it
was pretty close the centered. -kngharv
[motd formatd: learn to queue in line]
\_ Thanks for the insight! -- OP
\_ I am sure OP was a troll but just to amend what you wrote.
Beijing has been a town of varying significance for a very
long time, going back to at least to the 11th century BC when
it was the capital of the principality of Yan. There were
many periods prior to the Mongol when it was not a small town.
many periods prior to the Mongol when it was >> a small town.
\_ nah, before the Mongols invaded China, northern China was
already conquered by the Jurchens and it is called the
Jin. Southern China is called the Sung (or Southern Sung,
after it lost the north). Jin fell in 1234, and Mongols
started building Daidu (Beijing) in 1267. Sung survived until
1279. I think the Mongols were just too lazy to move again.
Daidu is also close to the capital of Jin and the capital
of the Liao, so it's not like it's built out of nowhere.
Same for the Manchus, they did not have a tight grip on
southern China until much later after they conquered the
north, so they already established the capital in the north.
\_ All the stuff you said didn't contradict with what I
mentioned. Again, there are a lot of historical reasons
why Beijing became a city of importance. And to the Han
Chauvinist below, Beijing became important mainly due to
minority tribe's effort. Important Han capitals are
LuoYang, KaiFeng, and to lesser extent, ChangAn.
-mutt blood
\_ ok ok, I don't disagree with you. Another reason
is simply that the capital followed the economic
center of the country, which was originally
further west in chang'an and luoyang with its rich
loess plains. later on, due to weather changes,
that region became less important.
And then whomever ruled the Zhong Yuan plain, the
biggest undivided (by rivers and mountains)
piece of real estate of China, tend to eventually
conquer and rule the whole country, so the capital
moved there (kaifung, liao and jin capitals, daidu,
...). Economic center later shifted further to the
south, so sometimes, a southern capital was also
viable. Another argument is that China's threats
historically (and in modern times too) tend to come
from the north, so it was better to have the capital
there to better deal with these threats. Army
became more centrally controlled (to reduce chance
of regional "warlords" becoming too powerful), but
then it needed to be closer to where the external
threat was. Having it in the Yangtze region would
mean the reaction time would be way too slow for
any disturbance in the north.
\_ Better housing? And easier to govern the country from a more
central location? Just my guess.
\_ Central location is the most common capital placement,
though border changes may leave the original capital
in an unusual position (Washington DC).
\_ But Beijing's location is strikingly similar to Washington DC.
It was already not the central location when they moved the
capitals there.
\_ better babes!
\_ Have you been to beijing?
\_ GWB has and he agrees.
\_ GWB isn't looking for tail. You mean Clinton.
\_ GWB went to Beijing decades ago so he could cuz
\_ GWB went to Beijing decades ago cuz
of the hot babes there. He admitted as much.
\_ Have you been to Mongolia?
\_ Are you gay?
\_ I like this beijing babe:
http://starfaye.free.fr/english/Bio1.htm
\_ This is not a babe. This is a stick insect in a
sweater.
She is Manchu / Jurchen ... whose ancestors ruled
northern China when the Mongols invaded.
\_ Why did the europeans move their capitals to america?
\_ They did? Wasn't London still the British capital back then, for
example?
\_ That's the capital for the folks left behind.
\_ why not? really, why not? Things like this happened more often
in history (not just in China) than you may have heard.
\_ Because they knew their civilization sucked, and in the long run,
their only hope was to get assimilated into the Great Han Civilization
- Great Han Chauvinist
their only hope was to get assimilated into the Great Han
Civilization - Great Han Chauvinist
\_ ohh please, I can almost guarentee that you are a mutt too.
It's impossible to find pure Han in China after thousands of
years of wild sex.
\_ can't you tell what is a troll?
\_ unfortunately, there are small number of people who really
think that way, I am afraid this is not.
\_ But you are wrong in this case. Real Han Chauvinists
don't call themselves Chauvinist, except for this one
kook on the usenet. By the way, do you have some
historical grievances against the Great Han
Civilization? Did we subject your lesser barbaric
"civilization" to annual tribute of material goods
and beautiful women, as acknowledgement of our
superiority? Did we administer a tender loving
chastisement on your minor tribe when you tried to rebel
like a naughty child? Believe me, it's for your own
good, and only helps to pull you out of your miserable
stone-age barbaric existence. Learn to live with it
or be conquered. Either way you will be assimilated
into the Great Han Civilization. Don't choose the
painful way. - Great Han Chauvinist
\_ Why do you hate Mongols?
\_ Goddamn Mongolian! You break down my shitty wall last time! |
| 2004/6/17 [Reference/BayArea, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:30861 Activity:high |
6/17 Good grief. Anita Mui has been dead how long and I find out through a
side reference in a Salon article. Was there any mention in the Bay
Area (English language) papers? -- ulysses
\_ Who is (was) she? Enlighten us please.
\_ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0611315 For the casual Western
fan, she was the store manager in Rumble in the Bronx, but
that's a lot like saying Charleton Heston's this guy who did
a bit part in that Wayne's World II movie.
\_ Not that I heard. If you are interested in the HK entertainment
circle and can't read Chinese, visit http://www.hkentreview.com If you
are a regular, please leave a donation as the Canadian who runs
the site is basically doing free translation for the rest of us.
--jeffwong. |
| 2004/6/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:30613 Activity:nil |
6/4 Hong Kong Vigil Remembers Tiananmen Square Killings
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/04/international/asia/04CND-HONG.html?hp
"Hong Kong should become the foundation for Chinese people to pursue
democracy" ... In an action certain to anger Beijing further, activists
here have distributed flyers to mainland tourists this year for the
first time, urging them to attend the candlelight vigil.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040604/481/xvy10606041302 |
| 2004/6/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:30543 Activity:nil |
6/2 Does anyone know the English name or the phone number of the Chinese
restaurant in the western side of Richmond District in SF whose Chinese
name translates to "second wife's great soup"? TIA. |
| 2004/5/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Media] UID:30380 Activity:very high |
5/23 When can I get DVD of House of the Flying Daggers?
\_ What's the Chinese name of the movie? link?
\_ Shi Mian Mai Fu (Ambush from Ten Directions) starring
Andy Lau, Zhang Ziyi and half-Japanese half-Taiwanese
Jing Cheng Wu.
\_ if you are going to use their English names, be consistent:
^Jing Cheng Wu^Takeshi Kaneshiro
\_ I couldn't remember the Japanese name, and was too
lazy to google for it. I don't know what you mean
by "English names".
\_ Names that you would use in English press to refer
to Chinese or HK movie stars.
eg. Cheung Man-Yuk == Maggie Cheung
--jeffwong
\_ I wasn't going by the english press but rather the
most recognizable version of their names for those
who care about the movie. granted jcw is commie-prc
romanization, but I think most taiwanese can
figure out the chinese characters and thus who I
was talking about from the romanization.
\_ As long as we're all talking about the same guy:
http://imdb.com/name/nm0437580 |
| 2004/5/6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:30043 Activity:moderate |
5/6 Chinese diplomats rush past lab guards
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040426-011652-7502r.htm
\_ This has only been reported in the Moonie Mag. Wtf?
\_ It was reported all sorts of places. Your ignorance is not
everyone else's problem. Also, it is just plain silly to
dismiss a paper because there's some association with some
group you dislike. You have never *once* been able to come
up with any sort of misreporting or lying from the WT. Take
your anti-WT trolling elsewhere.
\_ Whoa, chill out. If it's been reported elsewhere, why
doesn't it appear in a search of Google News? As for the
Washington Times' respectability, when a senior white house
correspondent resigns from a news-agency after years of
dedicated and exemplary service, doesn't that set your
spidey-sense tingling?
\_ Because your search fu is weak?
\_ How many times did WT report that "WMD found!"
\_ I don't know. You tell me since you seem to have so many
references that say that. |
| 2004/4/27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:13396 Activity:nil |
4/26 Yay! China blocks Hong Kong vote in 2007-2008.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/27/international/asia/27HONG.html
username/pw: csuamotd/csuamotd
\_ Yay?
\_ Maybe a sort of "I told you so?"
\_ British ruled Hong Kong for 150 years, i wonder why no one
ever complains about taxation without representation.
\_ The western media/people does not want to hear the truth, they
simply want every opportunity to bash China. You don't hear
about the cry for the Brits to return the land they conquored
during their colonial period do you? They returned most of it,
but there are still areas they don't return because they've
got bigger guns. Well, China got bigger guns, so cheer for them!
\_ Repression in the past is not justification for repression
in the present or the future.
\_ So what, it's their country, they can do whatever the fuck they want,
just like we can do whatever the fuck we want in our country and no
one can say otherwise. Heck, we can do whatever the fuck we want
around the world and no one can do shit about it either. Stop
critizing about what China does on its own while we goes around the
world and killing innocent lives for our SUV. Just shut the fuck up!
I am sick and tired of hearing this shit.
\_ Do we need to have a completely morally clean before we can
criticise the loss of democracy in HK? I think that we can
agree that this is unequivocally a bad thing. --jeffwong
\_ Precisely, big boss goes around the street shooting people, and
say to the little boss, Hey, you can't j-walk!!
\_ I hear what you are saying but consider that some of us don't
give a rat's ass what sort of gov't Hong Kong ends up with. I
am just surprised to hear you being happy to have the PRC
take more control over your life, unless perhaps you are
not HK chinese and gloating, maybe? -- ulysses
\_ Really, you don't give a rat's ass? You are pretty cold.
Would you give a rat's ass 60 years ago? -- ilyas
\_ Say what? -- ulysses
\_ You said: "Some of us don't give a rat's ass what
sort of [government] Hong Kong ends up with." Either
you were speaking for someone else needlessly, or you
were talking about yourself. Either way, I find this
attitude of disregard for the fate of others rather
cold. The example I gave involved the time 60 years
ago when there was some armed controversy over what
sort of government most of the world was going to end
up with. Similar disregard regarding those times
would be seen as rather cold as well. -- ilyas
\_ In other words, you will be willing to let whoever rule
California, be it the Iraqies, Japanese, Korean,
Soviet, etc, as long as they do a better job than the US?
If some foreign power rips California from US, you'll bet
50+ years from now, we will not hestitate to take it back
any way we can, even though we might be in shitter position.
\_ Is rule by a foreign power still the issue in HK? I
wasn't aware the UK still held that particular
territory. I was under the impression that the issue was
one of how much autonomy HK is to have but perhaps I
was mistaken. To extend your analogy, though, would I
wish the US to re-take CA had CA, in those 50 years,
come to develop its own autonomous regime that I
regarded as less repressive than that in the US?
No I would not. As a Californian, I would seek to
preserve the new, independent CA. -- ulysses
\_ You are almost certainly describing Taiwan, not HK.
Please get your chicom trolls straight.
\_ Taiwan was a situation where there was an existing
Chinese government. The Communists overthrew the
government, and the old government fled to Taiwan.
Both sides said they would eventually take out the
other side; neither did, and it's been 50+ years.
It's inaccurate, probably wrong, to say that the
situation described ("some foreign power rips
California from US") matches Taiwan. A more accurate
analogy is if the Democrats overthrew Dubya, and
all the Republicans fled to Texus and seceded from
the Union, that persisted for 50+ years, and then
Pres. Chelsea Clinton was threatening to reunite
Texas with the USA.
\_ At the same time, the Soviet says will defend Texas
if the US decides to take it by force. I like
this anology, good job!
\_ Pres.? I think you mean dictator. Let's not
pretend the PRC is a representative government.
\_ Wow, this is so clueless and out of perspective, I have no
idea how to respond to it. The sky is green! Green I say!
\_ PURPLE!
\_ Yeah, as if you have a lot of clues about what's best for the
Chinese people. Ever been to China?
\_ Yes.
\_ Amazing seeing how people who has never left their nest think
they know what's best for other places in the world. I know some
one like that, our commander in chief!! Yeah, who gives a rats
about the Iraqis, I know what's best for them and it's a puppet
government under my control. Too bad we can't do that to China,
but you can't blame us for not trying!
\_ Yeah, China into 50 pieces is good for the US and bad for
the them, but who cares!
\_ You could use the same argument to say that Beijing doesn't
know what's best for HK.
\_ I don't think it applies. HK is in China's backyard and
historically was part of China.
\_ Hong Kong is almost a completely different country.
Hong Kong was only last part of China in 1899 and
nobody lived there. The people of Hong Kong grew
up in a completely different education system
and without all of the communist ideological baggage
that they try to force feed you in the Mainland.
They barely speak the same language and they
have different writing systems. Also, the
PEOPLE of HK have never been ruled from Beijing.
--jeffwong
\_ "No body lived there"?? Then what the hell did the
Brits wants it for after the Opium War? Oh I get
it, the Brits are so nice, they took a waste land
from China and build a city on it.
\_ Actually, that's exactly what they did.
You probably need to understand the
difference between Hong Kong, Kowloon,
and the New Territories.
\_ Don't be an idiot, and cut it with the red herrings
already. The transfer the Hong Kong to China involved
a promise on the Chinese side to give HK a "high
degree of autonomy." Now China is trying to
backtrack. Britian has a perfect right to complain,
China is breaking a treaty with Britain! Not to
mention, I may not know what's "best for the
Chinese" but I can be pretty dang sure it's not
concentration camps and a police state. As for "never
left the nest" I spent two years in South Korea. I'm
not saying this gives me credentials on Chinese
govenment, but your insult is completely baseless.
-jrleek
\_ quote from article:
... the British foreign office minister for China and Hong Kong,
called in China's ambassador in London to complain about the
move, saying in a statement that it was "inconsistent with the
`high degree of autonomy' which Hong Kong is guaranteed under the
Joint Declaration." The declaration, by Britain and China in
1984, cleared the way for Hong Kong's transfer to Chinese rule. |
| 11/23 |
| 2004/4/23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:13342 Activity:high |
4/23 Read "In Beijing's Crushing Grip" at http://washingtonpost.com to see how fucked up China is. Oh wait, they changed the title to "China Tightens Its Grip" this morning. No password needed. Oh wait, the title is now "A Study Group Crushed in China's Grip". http://tinyurl.com/2tmzu [URL added, yr welcome] \- You are being monitored: http://tinyurl.com/2h2xg --psb \_ I knew it, Partha, you treacherous bastard! --erikred \_ One thing such stories make me curious about is why do people in the grip of a judicial system that is simply acting as a part of the authoritarian state imagine that defending their innocence - or others' innocence is going to do anything but expand the umbrella of suspicion? I ran across numerous such examples while studying recent history in the PRC as an undergrad. Sure Li comes off pretty badly in this article but without connections to local friends to visit in jail, it sounds like the only sensible thing. Defending them would only have landed his own ass in jail as well. -- ulysses \_ SHADES OF GRAY! NO ABSOLUTE EVIL! \_ You want a war worth fighting? Deposing the government of the PRC is that war. \_ obviously you still don't get it. deposing is easy, finding something to replace it is the tough part. also, it's a job for the PRCers, not for you. if you try, they will get confused, and all 1.3 billion of them will fight you, thinking you are the enemy, even though you are just trying to help. \_ Sigh. You're right, and yet, of all the regimes I most want to see toppled, this is the crown jewel. I wouldn't even care if they chopped it up into fifty tiny ethnic fiefs. \_ Okay. I'll bite. Since there are much much more brutal regimes and kleptocracies out there, most of them in Africa, why is the PRC your crown jewel? I'm no fan but they pale by comparison with many others in terms of their unsavoriness as a regime. Why them? -- ulysses \_ give us soda's login please \_ csuamotd@csua.berkeley.edu, pwd=csuamotd \_ "Chinese Communist Party is engaged in the largest and perhaps most successful experiment in authoritarianism in the world." Largest maybe, but most successful? Come on! Don't forget how much more effective NK is! \_ I am from Taiwan, and my first impression of the mainland is that I am impressed with the Communist's control structure. \_ Last time I check, USA wasn't able to rule Iraq too well. and Iraq is about 1/100 in size and only got 20 million people. \_ Well, yeah. But what does that have to do with anything? NK = North Korea \_ large land mass, huge population, and different cultural and ethnic mix make a land difficult to rule. For example, Singapore's government structure seems to work well with Chinese, but it can not scale up thus can't apply to the mainland. \_ Yeah, whatever you North Korean playa hater. \_ "I am a liberal," he wrote, "and what I care about are human rights, freedom and democracy." Funny how in the US "liberal" means you're pro-communist! \_ In Communist China, School studies YOU. \_ Check out the picture. Lu Kun has this big opportunity to show the western world her struggle... and what does she do? Talks on her cell phone during the picture session. Niiiiceee.. \_ Hey, she told her computer geek husband she wanted a quiet life and that he should get rich like his buddies and settle into the middle class -- not start up a web site called "Yangzi's Home of Ideas" and join a pro-democracy group. \_ Huh, well I can't argue with that. |
| 2004/4/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:13103 Activity:nil |
4/8 http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/09/international/asia/09DAMS.html yeh! Nu river saved from dam building project. china is a beautiful country. please don't destroy it! http://www.river.com/nujiang \_ But the Three Gorges are still gone. \_ Only for the 35 years the dam will last before silt accumulation builds up enough to destroy it. |
| 2004/4/1-2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:12965 Activity:very high |
4/1 The reason why PRC is keeping quiet about Taiwan election -
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_14/b3877006.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_14/b3877002.htm
\_ because PRC learned its lesson. Last thing they want is TW
nationals rallying against them. If you know anything about
Chinese Communist Party, you should know that when they are being
people rally against them. If you know anything about Chinese
quiet, that is when you should be REALLY worry about them.
\_ This article is filled with "I'm a moron" spin. Another
way you could spin it is that Chen's share of the vote increased
from ~ 35-40% from the 2000 election to ~ 50% for 2004, China
would find its own stability problematic if it decided to attack
Taiwan and disrupt business, everyone in Taiwan already knew
the referendums were totally political anyway, and whatever China
has or hasn't done, Chen has been re-elected. In fact, I would
say that China has realized its previously asinine diplomatic
approaches have been replaced with something more reasonable.
\_ why the range of 35-40% ? he got 39% in 2000 in a 3-way race.
\_ maybe because I couldn't remember what the exact percentage
was?
\_ let's say if taiwan declares independence, and prc takes
over all taiwan linked assets and factories in china, and
cuts off all trade with taiwan (prc being taiwan's biggest
export market). is this a cost taiwan is willing to bear
to move from status quo to independence? for how long?
\_ What if then the US freezes all trade to China? Is this a
cost China is willing to bear by being aggressive to Taiwan?
For how long?
\_ Fat chance. That would wreck our economy. If China
attacked Taiwan, we'd make a lot of noise and let them
burn.
\_ In order for China to attack Taiwan, it will need to
mass forces. The U.S. will deploy a couple aircraft
carriers, deterring the amphibious assault. China will
need a credible anti-carrier capability, which is why
it's developing GPS-guided cruise missiles. If the U.S.
can somehow manage to maintain combat superiority,
China won't even try to mass forces. In the
mean time, the U.S. is hoping China and Taiwan will
develop business links to an extent that neither will
want to disrupt the trade relationship.
\_ I doubt China will try to invade Taiwan. Instead,
it may shoot a few missiles, send it's submarine
fleet around Taiwan and warn other countries to
refrain from sailing their ships there. This
would bring the US fleet near Taiwan, and then
who knows what will happen. US will likely be
pressuring Taiwan to backtrack on independence
\_ Fat chance. That would wreck our economy. If China
attacked Taiwan, we'd make a lot of noise and let them
burn.
mean time, the U.S. is hoping China and Taiwan will
develop business links to an extent that neither will
want to disrupt the trade relationship.
at that point. Die hard Taiwan independence
advocates will wish the posturing will escalate
into a war between US and prc.
\_ The PRC is a loooong way from even thinking about
being able to take on the US Navy. They might
sink a few ships but they'll lose *everything*
they've spent 20+ years building up in a few hours
and they know it. If it was otherwise they would
have attacked already.
\_ clueless one. the prc doesn't need to take
on the US Navy. All they need is to cut
off all trade with Taiwan and Taiwan is
economically dead.
\_ So is China. China wouldn't cut off it's
nose to spite their face. Don't call me
clueless until you've demonstrated superior
knowledge or ability. You've failed on both
counts thus far. China has only 2 options
to retake Taiwan. The Taiwanese vote to go
back which is less likely each day or they
invade.
\_ Can't you just accept that people like political
Communist Party, you should know that when they are being
quiet, that is when you should be REALLY worry about them.
be forced to do.
\_ nobody mentioned anything about "attack".
\_ It isn't even a choice. It's the minimal PRC would
be forced to do.
\_ "forced to do", hmmm.
\_ exactly. which part of it do you not understand?
\_ That's a lot of "if's". Taiwan will not declare independence;
rather, Chen will say it was always independent, so there was
nothing to declare anyway. The question you should be asking
is, what if Chen passes a new constitution, and that's a big
if, too.
\_ Chen will push and push, but PRC will finally draw a line,
and that's what I am referring to above. stop nitpicking,
and wasting words.
if, too. And if a new constitution were passed, I have a hard
time believing that China would follow up with what you said.
I would say this path would lead to war with the U.S., and
China wouldn't want to take that chance, since they know
they would be beat by the U.S., and they wouldn't want to
lose face in any withdrawal.
freedoms, people like personal freedoms,
they don't want the half-assed Hong Kong "Basic
Law" situation -- and they want anyone who would
take away those freedoms to go to hell?
Just ask all the KMT protesters (even though
they're all wrong).
\_ Taiwan already has political and personal
freedoms. Taiwan independence is a
possible option in theory. In reality
the cost is too high, especially
when Taiwan already has all the freedoms
under the current status quo.
\_ Except for the constant threat of Chinese
invasion, yeah, sort of.
\_ the problem has always been how to
deal with the threat. burying your
skull in the sand doesn't help.
\_ It isn't even a choice. It's the minimal PRC would
be forced to do.
\_ That's a lot of "if's". Taiwan will not declare independence;
rather, Chen will say it was always independent, so there was
nothing to declare anyway. The question you should be asking
is, what if Chen passes a new constitution, and that's a big
if, too. And if a new constitution were passed, I have a hard
time believing that China would follow up with what you said.
I would say this path would lead to war with the U.S., and
China wouldn't want to take that chance, since they know
they would be beat by the U.S., and they wouldn't want to
lose face in any withdrawal.
\_ chen can push and push, but prc will draw a line somewhere,
and then the above actions is the minimal that the prc
will do. It may be all at once or one step at a time
but it will go on until taiwan backs down. it doesn't
need to fire a shot, and taiwan's economy would be in
ruins. Is that a cost taiwan is willing to pay to go
from status quo (note: nobody is talking about being
subject to prc rule here) to independence? United
States has been protecting Taiwan for the past half
a century. Instead of being grateful, should Taiwan
insist on demanding that Americans spill blood for
them, moving in a direction that would be economically
devastating to Taiwan, China, US and all east asian
nations? President Bush has repeatedly pleaded with
Chen to tone down because Chen's actions are not in the
interest of the United States.
\_ It's just a matter of time. One day China will be
strong enough to go for it. Taiwan can't do a thing to
stop that. When that day comes the US can defend or not
defend Taiwan. If the US chooses to defend Taiwan then
pray the Chinese have underestimated US navy power. If
the US backs down it is the end of US super power status
and the start of another 50 year cold war the whole
world will suffer through.
\_ Last two posters, will you please speak in specifics?
"One day China will be strong enough to go for it".
I could just as easily say: One day China will
have a democratic revolution, and Taiwan will join
China's democracy once everything has settled down.
Both seem equally believable to me, especially since
China is *vastly* outclassed by U.S. naval and
air power, and the U.S. will make a good effort
to keep up its military superiority if China
advances far enough.
\_ Specifically, "go for it" = "invade". You could
just as easily say your butt is made of green
cheese (just like the moon), but it is not equally
likely. If you find the cheese theory and the
China invasion theory equally believable then I've
got a bridge in Florida to sell you. China doesnt
have to have a better navy/af. They only have to
be superior in the local region. If they can
pull a fast one and cripple local US navy forces
and put a few 10s of thousands of men on Taiwan
before US reinforcements can show up they've won.
There will be some bogus peace treaty signed and
Taiwan will vanish into the history books as a
minor blurb in some grey side panel box.
\_ Die hard Taiwan independence supporters doesn't
care whether China becomes democratic or not.
They want independence at all cost. They are
driven in a large part by past hatred rather
than a vision for the future.
\_ Quick question, what's wrong with wanting
independence for its own sake? -- ilyas
\_ Exactly. I'm with you on that one.
\_ look, if you can magically turn china
into a brunei, then go ahead with
independence with my full support.
Unlike freedoms or democracy, which
is by nature good, political
independence is neutral in itself.
Its merits is dependent on how well it
will work for the people in practice.
\_ China will never be militarily stronger than the
US. The problem is, it doesn't need to be. It
can totally screw up Taiwan's economic livelihood
without firing a shot. Stop trolling.
\_ Never? Ever? History is full of dead and
defeated super powers that would rule the world
*forever* or so they thought. No one on this
thread is trolling. Some of us simply disagree
with you. That is *not* trolling. You want
trolls? There are plenty of trolls on the other
motd threads right now, but not here.
\_ Except that the world is now just a big
village. And in a small contained
world, once one party attains the upper
hand, it will only get stronger and
stronger. |
| 2004/3/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:12917 Activity:very high |
3/29 Isn't the PRC fascist? Why do people still refer to it as communist?
It fits perfectly with fascism but is not communist at all. Right?
\_ american is fascist too.
\_ Cool! ChiCom troll is back! I was afraid he'd been
sent to re-education, or promoted to peoples' regional
secretary for truth or something! Hi, ChiCom Troll! -John
\_ this is your problem. Saying PRC is a fascist is not
considered as troll, but saying American is fascist
is.
\_ Was I commenting on your content? Your reading
comprehension is as poor as your grammar. Doesn't
speak highly for ChiCom peoples' education. Welcome
back, ChiCom troll! -John
\_ You're being silly. He is not the real chicom
troll. Just arrived at work, eh?
\_ ChiCom troll is not person, it attitude.
Back to highschool, stupid american. -John
\_ nah, he's the best friend you day dream
about everyday at work.
\_ Yermom's not a day dream, and she's not
my best friend, she's on my lap.
\_ masterbating at work again, eh?
\_ nah, he's your imaginary best friend
you day dream about at work.
\_ Along with Republicanism...
\_ no.
\_ Communism is just one insidious type of fascism.
\_ Not really. It's just that people choose to keep calling
something communism that isn't communism.
\- helo it is an interesting question whether communism and
fascism, call them totalitarian ideologies, are essentially
identical due to structural factors or the "substance
of the ideology" rather than the structure [say class vs
nation/ethnic focus] plays the dominant role in defining
its character. you may wish to read "Revolutionary Change"
written by Chamlers Johnson before he went insane or this
book by R. Paxton: http://csua.org/u/6nx ok tnx. --psb
\_ Communism is not a totalitarian ideology per se, it is
an economic system which can only be achieved by
compulsion. (One wonders sometimes if this is true, to
some extent, of any civilized economic system which
relies on abstractions such as property). Fascism is a
more complicated concept, but I don't believe it needs to
be necessarily totalitarian either. Most people who
accuse people or states of fascism these days (e.g. "Bush
is fascist!") have no idea what the word means. I don't
believe fascism and communism have anything in common,
aside from the fact that they lend 'color' or 'charge',
if you like, to government. Twentieth century made a
convincing case that governments should remain as
colorless as possible. -- ilyas
\- per se, communism isnt communism per se. --psb
\_ That's nice, Partha. -- ilyas
\- not as good as: "The women at fandom cons are
bi and large, by and large." --psb
\_ What does it mean? that's my real question. I did do
some reading on it now and I see why the PRC doesn't
really fit that term. But, I can also see how aspects
associated with fascism can be used by both PRC
and USA (appeals to nationalism, fearmongering,
scapegoating, militarism/patriotism, propaganda).
But I think authoritarianism is intrinsic to fascism.
The only communism we've seen is the Stalinist brand
of totalitarianism. Modern China with its economic
ventures seems to have abandoned communism.
\_ yes, China have abandoned communism since 1985,
*YEARS* before Berlin Wall came down.
\_ nonsense. the government still controls the
entire economy. just because you're now allowed
to own an apple cart or a small factory that
makes a few widgets doesn't mean they've
\_ ussr? ussr is no more. otoh, russia under
putin has wisely decided to follow in
china's path of capitalism under strong
authoritarian rule, reversing russia's failed
experiment with democracy. this was also
the proven path followed by many US allies
such as japan, s.korea, taiwan, singapore.
and the world is voting with their hard
earned money pouring them into russia and
china. check out stock symbol mbt or vip,
i am buying a beemer using earnings from
those stocks. the only people who can
attain democracy and capitalism in the
reverse order are the indians, and even
then, it's under strong nationalistic
leadership of the BJP party.
*YEARS* before Berlin Wall came down.
suddenly turned into a capitalist society. they
have only just caught up to where stalin's
ussr was more than 50 years ago.
\_ Actually I take it back. Classic, Mussolini-style
fascism cannot help but be totalitarian in human
societies. -- ilyas
\-YMWTGF(ant, spider, bee, bacon) --psb
\_ human societies?
\_ The Bugs are facist by nature.
\-YMWTGF(ant, spider, bee, bacon) --psb
\_ bugs aren't totalitarian.
\_ Not necessarily bugs. Humans are just not
collectivist enough, they like small packs.
An interesting take on how a collectivist
human society would come about, see
book by R. Paxton: http://csua.org/u/6nx ok tnx. --psb
collectivist enough, they like small packs.
-- ilyas
Herbert's "Hellstrom's Hive" (yes, same
Herbert). -- ilyas
\_ if humans were collectivist like bugs
we'd be doing about as well which is
to say not very well at all overall.
\- sort of like france :-) --psb
\_ Why nobody ever complains that psb write incoherent
English sentences?
\_ because we know he could form coherent sentences
if he wanted to. otoh, we can and do complain that
he's a lazy bastard.
\_ nah, it's better described as authoritarian planned-economy
\- sort of like france :-) --psb
\_ "A specter is haunting Europe..." -- ilyas |
| 2004/3/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:12894 Activity:nil 50%like:29883 |
3/27 I have been using bigzoo to call china, but the line quality is pretty
bad, with long delay and echos. Anything better out there? Any
10-10 plan with no monthly charge/minimum?
\_ http://www.vonage.com
This stuff's pretty cool. You need a decent broadband connection
but you can say goodbye to SBC for almost everything (you still
need them for DSL). I used my friend's box to call Germany and
it worked like a charm. The line quality was crystal clear and
it worked transparently. There's a $15 monthly charge. I think
Circuit City has a promotion. |
| 2004/3/19-20 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Religion] UID:12768 Activity:nil |
3/19 Why does whitey hate the Asian man so much?
http://csua.org/u/6im
\_ They didn't like him b/c he's Muslim. At least get your trolling
straight.
\_ whiteys hate muslims more than they hate azns, get it right
\_ Yeah but muslim and azn is more than whitey can even stand
thinking about.
\_ A Chinese born of Christian parents who converted to Islam and bred
with a Syrian and fucked a White soldier's wife and felt Pity for
captives of the State (a christian virtue) and looked at porn when
he became horny. He is guilty as hell.
\_ why ask why? whitey is evil and must be destroyed along with the
zionist entity and anyone to the right of b.boxer. |
| 2004/3/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:12652 Activity:kinda low |
3/12 To the guy I was having the discussing about Chinese Characters
in Korea with:
I talked to my wife, and she told me that for a short time
in the early 80's, Chinese Characters were not taught in
middle and high school and there was no chinese literature course.
That may have been the ban your friend was referring to.
One other point about Koreas not being able to understand classic
lit. Before the korean writing system was developed in the 1500s
they used a wierd system called Naboo that was all chinese
characters but some were meant to be read as their chinese meaning
and some as their Korean pronuciation (to spell a Korean word).
The exact meaning of passages in these writings cannot be clearly
ascertained by anyone anymore. (1 word being read 2 diffrent ways
could have 2 different yet vaild meanings.)
\_ ha ha losers... the Japanese have a system where every Chinese
character has at LEAST 2 readings and sometimes more than 2
meanings
\_ Strange... I am a Chinese and I don't read a word of Korean, but
when I was reading some of the ancient Korean text around 1600 or
so, I sware I was able to read 70% of the text and actually
understand what they are saying. The text I read was the passage
written by (or behave of) King Sejong, explaining inventing
Hangul jamo as a way to enhance literacy among the common people.
-kngharv
\_ Not all anchient writings were like this. There were also
documents written in plain ol' chinese. But actually
my wife seems to think that's written all in actual
phonetic Korean. Maybe it was a translation?
\_ I know what I am reading, and I am literate enough to
tell the differences between Chinese text and some foreign
text with whole bunch Chinese characters in it. -kngharv
\_ Korean scholars were all bilingual until pretty recently.
Actually Korean imported Chinese culture (confucianism and
Chinese characters) long before they developed their own
writing system (which I think happened during the Monloglian
occupation). And that writing system was used exclusively
for the peasant and lower class while scholars used classic
Chinese for docuument and literature until last century.
\_ is that true that most of the official document in Korean
imperial court are written in Chinese characters? |
| 2004/3/12-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:12649 Activity:nil |
3/12 So Taiwan seems to be a pretty developed country, why is it still
considered a third world country?
\_ state your source.
\_ because they are not yet white and the quota for nonwhite is 1.
\_ idiot, why do you even bother wasting bits with your racist
hateful shit?
\_ did you really go to cal?
\_ because they don't have the political, economic, military, or
diplomatic power to be considered a major power.
\_ don't forget the congressional brawls.
\_ hey, we've got them too now! - random Korean guy
\_ Taiwan is *NOT* a developed region, not even close. For one thing
Taiwan is lack of rule of law. This is a major issue which most
American has overlooked because it is not as cachy as "democracy"
and "human right" etc et. Mind you that rule of law is the
fundamental building block of democratic government, and a democracy
without rule of law is actually in many ways more chaotic than
dictatorial form of government. Things you have taken for granted,
such as (relatively) independent judicial branch does not exist
here. Law enforcement is selective, tend to be charged with either
political motive or influenced by bribe.
Infrasture wise, when you step out of Taipei, you will find that
Taiwan is still pretty damn underdeveloped.
Even in Taipei City... give you an example, the waste water
treatment plant just went online recently. Can you imagine a city
of 1.7 million live on local septic tanks?
Lastly, Taiwan is not a country. The Constitution of Republic
of China state that Taiwan is part of China and the constitution
is designed for entire China in mind. Read them if you can actually
read Chinese.
\_ I like that argument for the annexation of Taiwan. "Our
Constitution says so!" If only the Germans had amended
their Constitution to say Austria, Poland, the Low Lands,
France, etc. were a part of the Reich, there wouldn't have been
a problem! And before you bring this up, most of those
territories (along with Spain) were in fact Hapsburg possessions,
and part of the Holy Roman Empire at one point or another.
-- ilyas
\_ Haha, there may be problems in his argument, but not the one
you are dwelling on. He was referrring the consistituion of
ROC (i.e. taiwan), which claims it to be part of China. You
made fun of yourself, again.
\_ Ok. Show me where:
http://www.taiwandocuments.org/constitution01.htm
-- ilyas
\_ I don't have to. I don't care about taiwan or china or
roman empire. I just saw you misread another post in
such an obvious way and went ahead pouring your vast
"intelligence." You should ask the guy to whom you
original replied to show that and thank me for helping
with your reading comprehension.
\_ I don't know. Are you sure you schooled me?
Taiwanese constitution doesn't say (or at least
I couldn't find anything about this) "Taiwan" is a
part of "China". It was merely a non-communist
constitution which was meant to apply to all of
china once the nationalists won. They never did,
and it applies to a small island instead. If you
really want your 10 motd points, you can have them,
however. -- ilyas
\_ The constitution specifically said that no one
allowed to alter the soverign territory of
the Republic of China, and at the time, the
constitution covers entire chinese mainland.
and this claus of contitution still exists.
- someone who actually can read chinese
and read the damn constitution, unlike ilyas
\_ It has nothing to do with what any constitution
says, but has everything to do with the carrier
we want to buy from ebay for you. I donate the
10 points toward its purchase.
\_ Tell you what. How about I spare you the
trouble of replying to me in the future. I am
nothing but a stuck-up, stupid, rabidly
libertarian, selfish, blind, easily offended,
unattractive, smelly, kooky, ridiculous,
no life loser with the attention span and
reading comprehension abilities of a 10
year old. I should fuck off and die like my
libertarian ilk, and keep my rabid
politico-sexual fantasies to myself. Can we
just agree on that? I default on all the motd
points. Any future argument between us you win
automatically. I accept any remotely clever
jokes you make at my expense in advance. I
surrender unconditionally. -- ilyas
\_ You're not allowed to. Sorry, but you lose
on losing, too. That's impressive!
\_ Yes, outside of the big cities, there are people living
at shocking levels of poverty. It's really quite
frightening, and the gov. seems uninterested in changing
anything.
\_ When I swang by the mainland China, I was shocked by the
difference in standard of living between the city and
the country side (and I didn't even wonder off to any
really poor country side neither). For a moment, I thought
Taiwan is much better in this regard. Then, I realize
that I *RARELY* step outside the Taipei city.
\_ just because you rarely see outside of taipei doesn't mean
taiwan is full of countrysides with poor rural bumpkins.
taiwan is much better in this regard.
\_ I don't dispute that. However, Taiwan is much smaller
and at least in my view should of done a better job
closing the gap between the country side and the city
than what is on the table right now.
\_ I am not very familiar with Taiwan's government system,
but are you sure about your claim that Taiwan does not
have an independent judiciary branch? Can you back it
up? I read a book or two by Li3 Ao2, and even under
KMT rule (under CCG, I presume?), which he sharply criticized,
he was able to win case after case in the courts. That
would be unthinkable in say, commie China.
\_ I am sure, because I live in TW right now and I have heard
enough share of horror stories, to a point that I had to
constantly remind myself that this is not the way things
suppose to work. The supreme court, for example, is extremely
weak and they are subject to president's political pressue.
This is one of the reason why nobody ever bother to ask the
supreme court to interpret the legality of laws and the
referendum conducted solely by the president right now.
The prosecutor general is essentially a servant of the
president. Those who doesn't cooperate, including judges
and people on the prosecution team, gets rotated out of the
trial while the trial is in progress.
\_ When I was in Singapore, I remember once where some international
organization reclassified Singapore as a developed nation.
The local government controlled media started trumpeting the
achievement all over the place. Then PM Lee Kuan Yew spoke up
and says Singapore is still a third world country. Lee Kuan
Yew is smart because one still gets some advantages (trade,
loan, etc.) by being a third world country in name. The
government controlled media then did a full reverse course
and started pumping out articles on why Singapore is not yet
a developed nation. It was kind of funny.
\_ Funny in the way that government controlled media is funny.
\_ pray tell us how else could it have been funny?
\_ exactly my point.
\_ Guys, you shouldn't compare everything with US. America is an
exceptional country, one which is founded on a sound principle
and evolve along a sound trajectory, has always had an unbiased
judiciary and a functining democracy. If you have to measure
against the US, then no other country is developed.
\_ blah blah america is bad, the worlds problems are all our fault
and if it wasnt for america the world would be utopia, so lets
just raise taxes, slash the military to ribbons and pay off the
rest of the world to like us because their liking is us is so
important as if international politics was a playground game |
| 2004/3/12-13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:12635 Activity:high |
3/12 Why does the Chinese govt. care about forcing WiFi chipset makers to
support WAPI? Is it beaurocrat muscle-flexing, technical advantages
of the spec, or added dissident-spying features?
\_ They know they have a lot of market muscle. So they want to use
that to help the Chinese tech industry. Foreign companies have to
license WAPI from China and basically share technical know-how
when implementing it. There's no real technical reason for it.
They're trying to do this with DVDs as well, with their "EVD".
I understand the logic, but still think it's a bad way to go about
it. When they split the market for everything it's just annoying
for people who travel, and for companies who need to make the
different versions. But hey, more useless tech jobs for us!
\_ The reason is actually a lot benign than that. China, like
rest of the (semi-conductor) manufacturing powerhouse, need to pay
royalties for producing equipment that is in compliant of the
standards adopted by the West. This Royalties and license fees
can be a significant cost to the equipment they manufacturs.
Unlike Korea, or Taiwan or Singapore, which essentially said:
"we got bullied, but there is nothing we can do about it." China
is flexing its market muscle, coming up with thier own standards
so they don't have to pay those IP-related fees. Wifi is just one
of many moves that China made recently (heard of TDS-CDMA?).
Where to go from here is anyone's guess. If I am the Premier of
China, I would eventually use these home-grown stardards to
influence the existing one, thus, neogiate a better term for
licensing technology such as GSM and other specifications.
However, there is an undercurrent of unreasonable national pride
beneath all these, which may cause Chinese market isolated from
rest of the world... similiar to what happened to USA and Japan.
And... China's market is going to be too big to be ignored by
anyone and thus, they can get away with all that.
\_ I was unaware that there are royalties for WEP...
\_ I thought WEP encryption was lame anyway?
\_ Everyone keeps saying China's market is too big to ignore but
doesn't most of China still live in small villages growing rice?
\_ you are correct. the rural urban breakup has gone from
80-20 to 70-30, but it is still mostly rural. OTOH, 30%
of 1.3 billion ain't bad. WSJ says China is already
the world's biggest beer market. I didn't read the
details but I would guess it's by volume consumed not
average price * volume consumed, cause they drink quite
a bit of cheap local brew.
\_ So are you saying the 'China is a huge market' thing is
for real or bullshit?
\_ I am saying it's a huge market for beer.
\_ But only cheap local beer, right?
of 1.3 billion ain't bad.
\_ Well said.
\_ So it's basically "We're really big. If you want to sell us
stuff you'll have to give us tech know-how and a discount on
royalties."
\_ the WSJ had a story a few weeks ago about how GE
wanted to sell power turbines to the Chinese market,
but in return the Chinese government wanted significant
discounts AND the plans to the technology used in
making the turbines so they can make it themselves
cheaper down the road, stuff that GE has invested billions
in over the years.
\_ Was GE stupid enough to do this?
\_ According to the article, they reached a compromise
- some technology transfer but the most leading
edge part was kept secret. GE had to compromise
a little because otherwise China will just go to
European companies. The good thing is, as the
article noted, often the transferred technology
quickly becomes outdated as even newer technology
becomes available. The technology itself is
important, but even more important is the ability
to invent new technologies.
\_ I remember the article quoting a chinese
manager saying that, in technology transfers,
the foreign companies show them what to do,
but not why they do it, and not how they discover
to invent new technologies.
that's the way to do it. |
| 2004/3/11-12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:12628 Activity:nil |
3/11 Does anyone know where I can buy one of those Flying Tigers
leather jacket with a ROC flag at the back. I want to buy one
in remembrance of what Americans have done for my country and
my people (and it looks cool too). - chinese dude
\_ Aw come on. Chennault was a twink who never accomplished anything
of signifance other than getting the Japanese to blow up his
airfields. |
| 2004/3/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:12621 Activity:high |
3/11 Is Italian the closest language to Latin than other Romantic language?
Isn't it weird that the once great empire has no spoken/written
language today, but that other old languages from the old empires
(Greek, Chinese, etc) still survive?
\- helo you may wish to see ~psb/MOTD/LatinRomeGreece
\_ Roman empire was a lot more multicultural than those other two...
The various states spoke their native languages with Latin as
a government/trade language. Also, "Chinese" is not one language.
Note that Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese were all once
written with Chinese characters!
\_ why isn't chinese one language? the spoken form is different
region to region, by written is essentially the same.
\_Chinese is one language. It just has many dialects. Also note
that Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese are essentially dialects
from Chinese if you express them in Chinese text. In a sense,
all Romance languages are merely dialects of latin. It's just
that unlike Chinese there was no unification and the written
text became fragmented. English itself has various dialects,
but because of faster travel, radio, and television the dialects
have tended to remain understandable instead of morphing into
something very different. However, I have trouble sometimes
with Punjabees speaking their version of English.
\_ The Roman alphabet is phonetic. If written
Chinese was phonetic, then there might be more of an
argument that the difference Chinese dialects were distinct
languages. Likewise, if the differences in speaking the
different Romance languages were not reflected in the
written language, it might be easier to argue that they are
dialects of Latin rather than distinct lanugages.
\_ Modern written Vietnamese is phonetic. There is a
way of writing Vietnamese that uses Chinese characters,
but this is considered archaic now.
\_ Italian is closer to latin than Old Greek is to Modern Greek.
\_ 1. Latin survives/freezes in some quarters (RCC). 2. Romanian is
quite close to Latin. 3. Living languages evolve: modern chinese
is quite different from ancient Chinese. (I speak and write the
former but have a (very) limited capability for the latter.) Greeks
told me similar things about their language. Hebrew is today like
what it was many years ago because it had been dead in between.
4. By western liguist's definition, different Chinese dialects
can be considered as different languages (with some slightly
different but overall similar grammar rules). Some Chinese consider
spanish, french, and italian as different dialects of the same
language used to be known as latin. 5. There is a distinction
between the spoken language (the tongue) and its representation
in terms of writing. 6. Japanese and Korean are NOT dialects
of Chinese. They are probably in a totaly different linguistic
family although the details are not yet understood.They borrowed
Chinese character and many chinese words (along with their old
pronunciation) when they decided they should have a system of
writing their language - they developed writing much later.
However, the 2 koreas banned the use of Chinese characters in late
last century when they go nationalistic. 7. I don't know whether
\_ I'm not sure what you mean here. While true that, in the
north Chinese characters are more or less banned, and they
are trying to get away from using Chinese based words, this
is not at all true in the south. You can see pleanty of
Chinese characters in the south, and most people's names
are written in Chinese. 60% of the vocabulary is chinese
based. Chinese has not be "banned." Now it HAS falled out
of use, because chinese characters are a terrible way to
write Korean. Korean is not a chinese language. The
grammar is not chinese, and 40% of the words are pure
Korean, and can't be reliably WRITTEN in chinese. Korean
and Japanese are Altaic languages with a butt-load of
borrowed chinese vocabulary.
\_ I have been told by a american professor specialising in the
2 koreas that Chinese characters have been banned from use
in literature and koreans can no longer read their own classic
literature directly (i.e. w/o translation) because they were
all written in Chinese (as Principia was written in Latin).
I knew (and wrote) that Korean language is completely
different from Chinese. However, that it and Japanese
are really from the Altaic group is not firmly extablished
(as say Sanskrit and Latin came from the same family).
Plus the japanese always claim they have nothing to do with
korean, although I never believed that.
Vietnamese is in the same linguistic family as Chinese but their
current writing system was developed by the french. 8. The eastern
roman empire used greek. 9. The roman empire was not "more"
multicultural than the other empires of similar size. |
| 2004/3/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:12582 Activity:nil |
3/9 Read businessweek online issue on 'china.net'. Lots of stories on
internet activities in china. Anybody thinking of moving back to
china or taiwan to start companies? I've been thinking about going
back to TW to start an online gaming company. DSL penetration is
pretty high.
\_ let me know if you do please! -brain
\_ in the same vein (is there a latin term for that expression?),
does anyone have any Indian tech connections? I have an idea for
outsourcing (not HiTech related) to India but don't have the
connections.
\_ mail me. - rory
\_ "Online gaming company", you mean developing online games, or what?
\_ I think he means online sex chat
\_ No wonder DSL penetration is so important!
\_ I would think penetration not important for online sex.
\_ He said "gaming" which is gambling, not "game".
\_ An ex-boss went there 2 years ago. He has a company, website, etc,
but I don't think he has final product or beta customer 1.
\_ I wanna make the China version of Yahoo Maps / Mapquest.
Anyone here has any experience? eg. Worked at Navtech?
We can start with like Beijing and move on from there.
\_ Do people there really have a need for a service like that?
\_ I am sure there is. Hwy system and car ownership are
exploding. Biggest problem is probably that the road
system is changing and expanding too fast.
\_ Instead of driving direction from pt A to pt B, you can provide
transit directions from pt A to pt B. --- yuen
\_ In Taiwan right now, and talked to friends from the mainland
regards to LBS service. The main issue is that, unlike USA,
which essentially gave out GIS map of entire country for free
(TIGER db), in both mainland China and Taiwan, GIS Maps has to be
purchased. I am less familiar with what is going on in the
mainland, but in Taiwan, first, the government actually holds
copyright on these maps, secondly, the government impose a very
restrictive license on how the map can be used, and charge a
very handsome sum for "value-added redistribution."
Second issue is less difficult. There is simply no good Chinese
parser out there to tokenize addresses.
In taiwan, life get even more complicated because maps are
controlled by several different government agencies.
The main obsticle is that Chinese people on both strait treat
map as some sort of military secret, and very reluctant to
release them to civilian use.
If you are interested in this kind of things, email me, as I
am in the process of getting street maps of Taipei to play
with (which going to cost me $150 USD just for personal use).
-kngharv
\_ You mean in Taiwan tourists can't buy somthing like "Map of
Taipei" at a bookstore for a few bucks?
\_ I don't get the tokenize address part. Just let the
user enter the address as seperate fields. Take my
aunt's address (using commie romanization):
tai2 bei3 (taipei city), xin1 dian4 (subdivision), zhong1
zheng4 lu4 (road), wu3 hao4 (number)
If they write it all together, sure, but if it's entered
in seperate fields or with a delimiter, I don't see
what's the difficulty. |
| 2004/2/20-21 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Networking] UID:12329 Activity:nil |
2/20 http://www.viennateng.com She's a stanford grad in CS. Worked as SW engineer at Cisco for a while before quitting and becoming a singer. She's better than William Hung. :-) Here's a link to a NPR interview with her: http://www.kqed.org/programs/program-landing-local.jsp?progID=RD37 \_ I don't think Vienna Teng is her real name. \_ beatiful voice. she is not that ugly neither. :p \_ not that hot either \_ she looks like Bruce Lee \_ this one looks worse than the others http://quantumshop.com/cgi-bin/viennateng/index.cgi And will-hung's look is not bad. It's just his software seems weak. \_ She's a MAN, baby! \_ who? |
| 2004/2/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:29799 Activity:nil 61%like:29794 |
2/10 How to display column number in emacs? Thanks.
[ relevant responses moved to the top ]
\_ (custom-set-variables '(column-number-mode t))
\_ (setq column-number-mode t)
\_ I'm always baffled at motd posters who (1) ask questions that
begin with the grammatically incorrect "How to..." and (2)
don't konw how to use http://google.com.
\_ you are baffled too easily. (1) you can tell the guy is
a fob and (2) not the brightest bulb in the bunch.
\_ so (3) ship him back.
\_ Is "Investing How To Guide" grammatically correct?
\_ No, it isn't, but that's no excuse for poor grammar elsewhere.
\_ I'm so sick of all this grammar-correcting motd bullshit.
Isn't there some saying like "if someone speaks english
worse than you it probably means they speak some 2nd
language better" ? that is hippie bumpersticker talk,
but a relevant point nonetheless. get a life. anyway,
you're probably just jealous because some fob with
broken english got that chinese girl you were oggling in
class.
\_ No, this whole asking a question with "How to..." has
been brought up over and over on the motd (check the
archives). If you make a mistake, it's okay. But if
someone corrects you over and over again and you haven't
learned your lesson then there's really something wrong
with you. You should at least TRY.
\_ TRY to get over it, you mean? yes, people have posted
this way, and people have continued to bitch about it.
so why dont the bitchers just get used to it. frankly,
i am a quite competent english speaker but
occasionally find that phrasing quick and convenient.
isn't computer stuff all about shorthand anyway? and
furthermore, its vaguely reminiscent of the whole
Linux how-to culture.
\_ have you actually looked at the chinese girls on campus? and
no, generally bi-lingual people are shitty are both languages.
\- would you care to name an authority
who recommends hyphenating the word
"bi-lingual" [sic] ? --psb
being better at some third world language is useless if you're
in a first world english speaking country.
\_ really? chang-lin tien's english kind of sucks, yet
he functioned pretty well, and his chinese came in
useful in persuading chinese tycoons like tan kah kee
to part with their hard earned money. Being bi-
lingual is a fantastic advantage.
\_ it probably helped that he wasn't dumb.
\- dear anonymous motd grammar coward: if you are willing to
de-anonimize yourself, i am willing to give you a
little grammar quiz, and we can really plumb the depth of
your grammar chops or see if you are YetAnotherRatcheter.
--psb, third world lanaguage speaker
\_ so, what's this grammar quiz you speak of? let's see it.
\_ Oh dear! Here goes psb again with his "holier than
thou" crap. Partha, don't you have a degree to earn?
\- how am i being holier than thou? i am perhaps throwing
down the glove. --psb
\_ lanaguage eh? |
| 2004/2/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:29794 Activity:very high 61%like:29799 |
2/10 How to display column number in emacs? Thanks.
\_ I'm always baffled at motd posters who (1) ask questions that
begin with the grammatically incorrect "How to..." and (2)
don't konw how to use http://google.com.
\_ you are baffled too easily. (1) you can tell the guy is
a fob and (2) not the brightest bulb in the bunch.
\_ so (3) ship him back.
\_ Is "Investing How To Guide" grammatically correct?
\_ No, it isn't, but that's no excuse for poor grammar elsewhere.
\_ I'm so sick of all this grammar-correcting motd bullshit.
Isn't there some saying like "if someone speaks english
worse than you it probably means they speak some 2nd
language better" ? that is hippie bumpersticker talk,
but a relevant point nonetheless. get a life. anyway,
you're probably just jealous because some fob with
broken english got that chinese girl you were oggling in
class.
\_ No, this whole asking a question with "How to..." has
been brought up over and over on the motd (check the
archives). If you make a mistake, it's okay. But if
someone corrects you over and over again and you haven't
learned your lesson then there's really something wrong
with you. You should at least TRY.
\_ have you actually looked at the chinese girls on campus? and
no, generally bi-lingual people are shitty are both languages.
being better at some third world language is useless if you're
in a first world english speaking country.
\_ really? chang-lin tien's english kind of sucks, yet
he functioned pretty well, and his chinese came in
useful in persuading chinese tycoons like tan kah kee
to part with their hard earned money. Being bi-
lingual is a fantastic advantage.
\_ it probably helped that he wasn't dumb.
\_ (custom-set-variables '(column-number-mode t))
\- dear anonymous motd grammar coward: if you are willing to
de-anonimize yourself, i am willing to give you a
little grammar quiz, and we can really plumb the depth of
your grammar chops or see if you are YetAnotherRatcheter.
--psb, third world lanaguage speaker
\_ Oh dear! Here goes psb again with his "holier than
thou" crap. Partha, don't you have a degree to earn?
\_ lanaguage eh? |
| 2004/2/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:29781 Activity:insanely high |
2/4 Someone needs to tell the Chinese that the phrase
"Pearl of the Orient" is racist and that they should not use it
anymore.
\_ Context?
\_ who uses that phrase? --Chinese
\_ In Chinses it's always "Pearl of the East".
\_ Hong Kong websites.
\_ In Chinese it's always "Pearl of the East".
\_ That's certainly racist and Eurocentrist.
\_ eurocentrist? nah, it's old world centrist.
it ignores the existence of the americas.
that westerners call themselves westerners
doesn't mean the world is japancentrist for
example.
\_ Why Japan? Racist.
\_ because I hate fucking japs! don't tell me jap is
racist too.
\_ You don't like to have sex with them?
\_ No, but I enjoyed having hot sweaty sex with
yermom all night long.
\_ I love the motd. This deteriorated so quickly
I had to laugh.
\_ Racism is the denigration and otherwise maltreatment of an
underclass by an overclass. Therefore, by definition, the
Chinese cannot be racist, since the overclass/underclass
power relationship cannot exist. |
| 2004/2/3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:12085 Activity:low 50%like:12078 |
2/2 [ Chinese Chess ]
http://www.chessvariants.com/xiangqi.html
http://www.xiangqiclub.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Grid/6544/cccintro.htm
\_ thanks for the links. It's hard to remember all those
chinese characters (on the Chinese Chess sets)
\_ forget all these, try http://www.ourgame.com |
| 2004/1/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:12033 Activity:nil |
1/30 Someone asked about knives a while back. These aren't 5 star knives,
but a good deal:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009XFSI/ref%3Dnosim/slickdeals/002-3925468-0256826
\_ what is a 5 star knife? Certainly not henckels or wusthof.
\_ wusthof has a $350 chef's knife. i hate ceramic knives. bite me.
\_ "5 Star" is one of Henckels' lines. I think the op was referring
to knives of high quality, though.
\_ Those look like crap to me. They are full-tang riveted, but they
are stamped, not forged, and made in China, which is not reknowned
for their good knives. Henckels and Wusthof make their better lines
in Germany and the cheaper ones in China and Spain. Stamped knives
like these go dull quickly, and have fairly flexible blades, which
makes them not very safe or easy to use.
That being said, I have seen reasonably cheap Chinese knives on
Amazon that were pretty good. The key diference was that they were
forged. The easy way to tell is that the blade gets thicker near the
top and has a lump of metal where the blade meets the handle. |
| 2003/12/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:11368 Activity:low |
12/9 I can understand why china doesn't want taiwan to be independent.
But what i don't understand is why they're so worked up about
the proposed reffurendum in taiwan, given that for all practical
purposes taiwan *is* independent. is it just a pride thing?
if taiwan already has an independently elected government, an
independent armed forces and pays no taxes to the mainland
what the hell difference does it make to beijing what they
claim in some vote?
\_ http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=516&e=3&u=/ap/20031209/ap_on_re_as/us_china
Bush publicly opposes independence. So much for independence.
\_ Support for an Independent Taiwan was the only positive thing I
saw in the Bush Administration. And now that's gone, too.
Jayzus H. Keerist, can no one see what a whore this man is?
\_ one China one Nation.
\_ I read in "Guns Germs and Steel" that one factor that held up
China from developing into a world power pre-1492 was that it
was a single political entity at the whims of the emperor. i.e.
They had a world class fleet they could have used to dominate
with but they just decided to do away with it, as the result
of a political struggle between factions in the imperial court.
\_ I'm a little curious too. I think it's about saving face. Right
now they can say "We're China, and there is one rebellious province"
If there's too much talk of independance, it rubs their nose in the
fact that the civil war was really fought to an impasse, and the
communist revolutionaries didn't totally win.
\_ one word: communism. "Taiwan has all the goodies, and we want
them too."
\_ China is all about stability. They rule by the atmosphere of
"if you stick out, we'll stomp you". They'll roll over college
students with a tank, and have no problem shooting live rounds.
Do you have a problem? Then you belong in a Chinese prison for
20 years as a political prisoner.
If China lets Taiwan become independent, it fears that its own
citizens will get ideas.
\_ what do you think the US will do if our civil war didn't end
the way it did? Do you think if California decides to become
independent (I don't see why not since we are not getting any
fucking shit from the federal government), everything will
go smoothly? It's not about saving face. It's about national
unity, a concept you obviously don't understand. They wouldn't
have cared less if Taiwan is rich or poor.
\_ China *had* national unity before Mao.
\_ read a fucking history book.
\_ United Front
\_ What you're saying falls under what I wrote.
\_ Who's the douchey douchebag that keeps deleting this thread?
\_ Heh, I've only deleted it once. - troll-recognizer whose
comment got deleted
\_ it was not intended as a troll, it was intended to generate
interesting discussion, which it did(along with the usual
flames). go fuck yourself. -op
\_ Whatever. Delete me, I'll delete you.
\_ It's easy. There must be one great Communist Nation to combat the
evil greedy infidels of the Capitalistic BushReich! |
| 2003/11/19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:29643 Activity:nil |
11/19 China to attack Taiwan: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031119/ap_on_re_as/china_taiwan_5 |
| 2003/11/5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:29611 Activity:high |
11/5 If anybody deserves the death penalty, it's this Green River
Killer fucker. Why the hell can he just admit and not get the
death penalty?? So, if someone just go out and start killing
people, all they have to do is to admit and they won't get the
death penalty? WTF? Is this the so called best criminal
justice system in the world? This is so fucked up I think even
the Chinese government can do better by putting a fucking
bullet in this guy's head.
\_ see, the Chinese government wouldn't give a crap about
finding out what happened to all 48 women. Justice is
not just about punishing the guilty; it is also about
protecting the innocent -- in this case, giving families
of the deceased women some closure.
\_ I am not so sure about this. There's far less crime in China,
a country with hell a lot more people than the US, than here.
All this because WE care about our people? I think not. the
criminals are simply not afraid of the law here, period.
\_ Far less crime in China? Do you have any idea what you're
talking about?
\_ do YOU have any idea what you are talking about? ever
been to China?
\_ Ever been to the US? Ever spent time here? Or do you
just believe everything you see on television?
\_ you need to come beijing so our local boys can beat
you up and show you a thing or two about crimes in
china.
\_ don't need to go to China for that. There's PLENTY
of spots in EVERY FUCKING MAJOR US CITY that you
will get the crap beat out of you. You will NOT
find a city like east palo alto in China, they may
be poor, but poor != crime.
\_ Because trials cost $.
\_ No death penalty because all but 2 murders were not in a death
penalty state. He might get it for the 2 murders in Oregon, though. |
| 2003/10/24 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10764 Activity:low |
10/23 Soong May-Ling (aka Madame Chiang Kai Shek) passed away at age
106 in Long Island, NY. A generation has passed into history.
A short biography:
http://www.wellesley.edu/anniversary/chiang.html
\_ Is that a bad thing?
\_ it's history.
\_ for those who bitching about women right, one should really
look at her and how she played the role of the First
lady. It's not until the 1970's when the First Lady in the
Western world slowly caught up with what she is already done
in the 1930's.
\_ If you're trying to mention highly-achieved Chinese women in the
past, how about the King Mother Chi Hsi (sp?) of the Qing
\_ Ci Xi. learn pinying
\_ wo hen ta ma de pinying.
\_ pinyin, no g
\_ wo hen ta ma de in vs
ing. no difference
to my ear.
\_ Sorry, I'm not a Mandarin
speaker. Just doing my
best.
say this 3 times fast: 4 & 10 is 14 _/
4 & 40 is 44
\_ Try this: 4 is 4. 10 is 10. 14 is 14. 40 is 40.
44 is 44.
\_ How about the one that says "When Xi Xi died, she
was 44." Or a very long one that started with
"There's a poet Shih in a rock chamber. He likes
eating lion. ......"
Dynasty, and even Empress Wu in the Tang Dynasty a thousand years
ago?
\_ First Ladies should not have *any* power, control, or influence.
Certainly not in a democracy where we elect our leaders, we don't
marry them. And you've got a funny idea of women's rights where
a woman has to marry the right guy to achieve power or wealth.
That sounds very 1950's to me.
\_ First Lady is essentially a cabinet position. She
is appointed by the same person who appoints everyone
else in the cabinet. If anything, the First Lady
position is more democracy friendly than the other
cabinet positions because you know what you're getting
when you vote. We all knew during the election that
if GW won Laura Bush would be First Lady, but I think if
people had known ahead of time who would be appointed
attrorney general it could have thrown the election
the other way.
\_ Wow, I didn't know Soong Ching-ling became a communists after Dr.
Sun died.
\_ You can even argue that Dr. Sun was a half of a communist
at first place.
\_ Is that why Deng Xiao-Ping erected a statue of Dr. Sun
somewhere in China (I saw a picture of that in some book) even
though he's of the Nationalist Party?
\_ Sun Yat-Sen was the Father of Modern (Non-Imperial)
China. That he was a borderline socialist before the
Nationalist v. Communist fracas broke out is neither
here nor there.
\_ huh.. huh... he said statue...
\_ statue erected statue erected statue erected.
are you horny now?
\_ reaching the condoms
\_ The Soong sisters: One loved power (May-Ling marrying CKS), one
loved money (Ai-ling marrying industrialist HH Kung), and one
loved China (Ching-ling marrying Sun Yat-Sen). It's a cliche
but there you go.
\_ Maybe they just loved their husbands.
\_ What's the full name of HH Kung? Thanks.
\_ The West had Queen Elizabeth. How about Cleopatra?
\_ Yeah the whole snake bite thing at the end went well for her. |
| 2003/10/17-18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10673 Activity:nil |
10/16 Now we have confirmation that China is not expansionistic, "partly,
it's due to anal retentive confucian morality, but moslty
it's because Chinese prefer to stay at home and enjoy life". Here
ya go:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/inring.htm
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_10.html
http://www.washtimes.com/national/inring.htm
\_ First, we are talking about gunpower era, not present day.
Thanks for taking my writing out of context. Second,
if manned space flight and dual use satellites are
considered expansionistic, we would have to conclude that
the US is the most expansionistic nation on earth, with
spy satellites all over the sky and spy stations all
around China (in S. Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Mongolia,
central asia, etc.)
\_ white men are greedy and acquisitive. Look at the way they treated
black slaves and how Manifest Destiny included plans to kill
Indians with smallpox. White men like to have sex more often to
spread their seeds around the world. It's all in the genes.
\_ Who's yo daddy?!
\_ George H.W. Bush!
\_ Firstly, why post the same link twice? Secondly, both of the
articles quote the exact same source: a Lt. Stokes, director of
the Taiwan desk at the Pentagon... hrmm... must be unbiased.
\_ simple cut'n'paste error. why else? -op
\_ If you enjoy reading alarmist literature, you should try
Jack London's "The Unparalled Invasion". Here is a short
summary of it:
"... Jack London's 1910 The Unparalleld Invasion (which calls
for an aerial bombardment of the Chinese by fragile glass tubes
that carry every possible biological weapon - and those that
flee are felled by the powers at their borders, the land is
disinfected and then whites move into a cleansed China)."
An excerpt of the aftermath:
"They found China devastated, a howling wilderness through
which wandered bands of wild dogs and desperate bandits who
had survived. All survivors were put to death wherever found.
And then began the great task, the sanitation of China."
Here is the full version:
http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/sid.6/bookid.1442
\_ Is that your idea of foreign policy and containment?
\_ And I bet you had yellow fever before too
\_ Is this the Jack London at Jack London Square in Oakland?
\_ yes. and our alumnus. |
| 2003/10/17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10670 Activity:nil |
10/16 If the Chinese invented gunpowdah, why the hell didn't they use it
for guns and other weaponries? Couldn't they have used the
technology to expand their empire further?
\_ Why bother with guns if you have flying emperors?
http://tinyurl.com/rb3h -John
\_ yea, we all know you love chinese.
\_ China wasn't expansionist.
\_ Wahahahahhahahahahaaa!!! They tell you that in 5th grade?
\_ I agree with op. Relatively speaking, China is less
expansionist. Partly, it's due to anal retentive
confucian morality, but moslty it's because Chinese
prefer to stay at home and enjoy life.
\_ I also prefer to stay at home and enjoy life.
Why is America expanding in Iraq?
\_ The US is not expanding in Iraq. Iraq will
retain its identity as a separate nation.
\_ No, they've already conquered everything around them
that was easy to take over. They hit the ocean and
the desert and the mountains and thus were stopped
only the the surrounding terrain. There was no
where left to expand. Go buy a globe.
\_ Actually they stopped because the Emperor told
them to stop. Felt there was no need to conquer
anything else because it was unworthy. Go buy a
history book.
\_ Nah, when Zheng He and his mightly fleet sailed
the seven seas, they could easily have invaded
many lands but they didn't.
\_ There was some PBS show (connections? James Burkley?). He
mentioned that is was cultural. Using gunpowder for fire crackers
for ceremonies and stuff like that. It took a western view to see
gunpowder in a different light, and adapting the "bell" for
another use (as a cannon, basically).
\_ so you're implying that white men are evil? racist.
\_ well, those are your words, not mine (they are evil
buggers, though, aren't they?).
\_ no he's implying that chinese lack imagination and that's
why they're still a 3rd world power.
\_ No, actually they thought they had already done
it all and perfected their civilization (or something
to that effect).
\_ Actually, I think a lot of it was because China controlled the
areas it wanted to rule without huge opposition. Creating and
mass producing new exotic weapons like guns aren't a priority.
\_ in addition to all above, in order to have an arms race you need
two or more powers matched closely enough in order to be racing!
otherwise the dominant power tends to institutionalize its current
methods. fear often overrides concerns of honor, sportsmanship,
or whatever concept binds one to the old ways.
\_ Actually, they did, according to this NOVA interview:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/china/age.html |
| 2003/10/17 [Politics/Foreign/Canada, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10667 Activity:nil |
10/16 Such reasoning washes away any differentiation between good and
evil, and turns the United Nations into an asinine debating
society where the representative of a genocidal dictator gets
his "turn" to criticize how, say, Iceland doesn't have
enough homosexual out-reach programs.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1002805/posts
\_ Ya know, freeperguy, I love ya, and the stuff you post is usually
on target but your points would be better served with links from
news sites that say the same things, not opinion sites like http://fr.com.
That being said, it is true that the UN is exactly as described. The
idea that unelected third world murderers should even be invited to
join a world body is ridiculous. Their opinions are meaningless.
And the extra 'gotcha' is they all hang out in NY, rape American
women, ignore traffic tickets and then just fly home under the
protection of diplomatic immunity. It's a joke. If the UN disolved
tomorrow, the world wouldn't change in the least for good or bad.
\_ Or maybe people could look at the facts instead of rejecting
everything because of the ideological leaning of the source. That
goes for people from the left, right, and center.
\_ The problem with freeper articles is that they want to throw
out the baby with the bath water. The UN is a good idea.
expelling nations that have no democractically elected leaders
is not a bad idea. Universal sanctions on the bastards is an
even better idea. Reform the UN, don't just sink it.
\_ I hear Bernie Goetz is looking for a job. -John |
| 2003/10/16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:10646 Activity:low |
10/15 What the FUCK is wrong with these people?
The "Jews control the world" notion is supposed to be limited
to dumbshits. -nerdy asian
\_ you mean shiites?
http://csua.org/u/4pw
\_ It is, what's your point?
\_ agree, Jews controls US foreign policy, thus, in effect,
control the world.
\_ do you also believe there's a conspircy among long dicked black
men to rape your white wife? back to the 50's, you neanderthal.
\_ may be this would make you feel better, Malaysia has been
racially discrimiting ethnic Chinese for DECADES. So, Jewish
boys and girls, you are not alone.
\_ no, it doesn't. as a jew I don't think its ok that the malai
or anyone else are discriminating against more than just my
people. i feel as badly for the kurds, for example, as i do for
my own. the irish. the tibetans. what remains of the american
indians and those still there in southern mexico. and anyone
else you can think of who is abused for nothing more than being
different from the majority population. i hope you thought you
were being funny (you weren't) because the alternative is truly
sickening.
\_ It's not that simple. They are not "abused" just for being
"different from the majority". The chinese and jews control
much of the economic power and make up the business class.
There's much more to this than what the Kurds/Irish/Tibetans
have going on.
\_ Yet another racist canard. Please post your url that
proves the banks, businesses, etc are owned by those evil
zoggian jews and their wicked chinese business associates.
The very thought itself is standard racist drivel meant to
create an "us vs them" dichotomy so it's easier for the
weak minded to hate people they've never met. Again, I
would ask you to keep your racist fears of The Other off
the motd. I doubt anyone wants to hear your concerns about
black men with large dicks raping your wife, the vietnamese
family across the street dognapping your pet for a meal or
how you *know* that arab taxi driver went the wrong way
intentionally so he could fuck you for an extra buck. |
| 2003/10/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Travel] UID:10634 Activity:nil |
10/15 I am planning on visiting Guandong, Shanghai, Beijin, etc. this coming
year. Generally speaking, what time of the year would be best to visit
these places? If I want to do more than take a kodak in each city, how
many cities should I visit in about 2 weeks? And, is it better/safer
for a single guy to travel alone, with a guy buddy, his gf, or his
regular female friend travel with him? Lastly, what are some good
words to search for besides "china", "guandong", "shanghai", "beijin",
"travel", "tour", ... Thanks.
\_ best time is actually *NOW*, right after their national holiday
vacation (which span seven days) on October 1st. before
the weather turned cold. One problem with
China is that it has too many people. I personally find it
difficult to enjoy scenary, no matter how beatiful it is,
when there are couple thousands of other guys doing the exact
same thing at the same time. China in general are pretty
safe. For starter, stick with may be 3 cities. Beijing,
Xi'An, and may be Shanghai (especially the nearby city like
Suzhou). If you hever been in China before
3-4 cities is a good start for a 2 week period.
\_ Safe in general, true, but when it comes to your belongings
you should be very watchful. There are known to be some
pickpockets in the bigger cities. Oh, and try to take
a boat ride along the river in Guilin.
\_ What are you saying? It's the worker's paradise! Racist!
\_ The best travel time is just before the Japanese show up to gang
bang the entire staff at the local hotels. You don't want seconds.
\_ Those women weren't hotel staff. They were brought in.
\_ Can I still visit if I don't know how to speak Chinese?
\_ Don't worry, they'll assign a minder to you. They'll always be
one block behind.
\_ Not in Shanghai. The authorities will simply assume that
every pimp and nightclub owner will report on you anyway. |
| 2003/10/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10632 Activity:high |
10/14 China launches manned flight!
\_ don't be so proud. Key components are foreign nature, that
include the capsule (based upon Russian's Soyou(sp?), and the
navigation system is made by Hughs Electronics.
\_ Soyuz (Union).
\_ There are rumors that not all scientists working on the Apollo
missions were born in the USA.
\_ ...so? certainly not all scientists working on the manhattan
project were born in the US.
\_ That was sarcasm. I don't think the fact the China
mission uses foreign components detracts from the achievement
anymore than the US using foreign-born scientists/engineers/
whatever in the Apollo program.
\_ It's not rumors. The US got top V2 rocket engineers from
Germany after WWII. They felt German pride with all their
accomplishments with rockets for the US including the lunar
landing. There was a PBS program about this. That being said,
I think the Chinese were the ones that invented rockets, so it
has come full circle somewhat.
\_ The German's V2 was stolen from Goddard.
\_ "German Pride" caused WWI and WWII. We can do without it.
\_ There's a difference between having foreign-born Americans
work on something, and getting help from foreign governments.
landing. There was a PBS program about this.
\_ BFD. so, the Chinese engineering/integration had nothing
to do with it? It's all in the parts? --Jon
\_ I agree. The Chinese deserve credit.
\_ "It's been done." Seriously what's the big deal?
\_ We need another space race to advance technology and create
jobs. A little rivalry is not a bad thing. Bring on Mars!!!
\_ No wonder it's so short.
\_ Hey, baby, that's not a rocket in my pocket -bclinton
\_ Correction: China _says_ they have manned spaceflight. They
cancelled the live broadcast. We'll find out later if the guy
went up in flames on the way up or during reentry.
\_ Learn Engrish first lah. All op said was "launches".
\_ We don't know it was manned. We only know what the Chinese
government says, lah! I'll grant that they probably did
launch a rocket because we can satellite track it. But was
a real live human being inside? Shrug.
\_ There comes a point in any conspiracy theory where you
have to ask yourself: is it more work to maintain the
conspiracy or to actually do what they say they've done?
\_ True. Consider how trivially easy it is to hide the
fact that no human's in a rocket. Without a live
broadcast.
\_ Actually, they sent up OJ Simpson. Really. I saw
\_ All we need is a TV clip showing that Chinese pilot talking
in a weightless environment. Then either there was a
manned flight in orbit, or the Chinese has advanced its
special effect technology to create a fake weightlessness
footage which is still a huge achievement.
\_ i dont think the Chinese are faking it. However,
if you want to take footage in zero g without going to
space it's pretty easy to do in a plane.
\_ Yeah, but in a Chinese plane?
to do with it? It's all in the parts? --Jon
the movie. |
| 2003/10/14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10620 Activity:nil |
10/13 Cool. Here's Europe forgetting lessons of the very recent past:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/14/weu14.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/14/ixworld.html
The best parts are near the end when they talk about arms transfers.
\_ Which lessons are those? That China is a good trading partner?
Amazing how antagonizing your allies makes them look for other
partners, isn't it? The damage Bush has done to American diplomacy
will take decades to undo.
\_ The ones about peace with honor. Or in this case, cash without
honor. But you knew that. China is a great trading partner if
you've got high tech weaponry to sell. You seem angry.
\_ Honor?
\_ What are you trying to say? That it is dishonorable to
trade with the Chinese? That China is a threat to Europe's
security? What???
\_ It's there. No. Yes. Just that. |
| 2003/10/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10544 Activity:nil |
10/8 what's the best source for China-related news(in English or Chinese)?
\_ Asia Times is a good, indy HK rag, but they cover everything.
http://www.atimes.com
You could also try the South China Morning Post, but that requires
a paid subscription. |
| 2003/10/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10531 Activity:nil |
10/8 China's first manned space flight might be next week:
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994252
\_ boring
\_ yeah, we should just change the name of the file to
/etc/motd.public.election.flames
\_ it's never boring to see real live human beings turn to ash in
mid-air. that's what made the shuttle blowing up twice so cool. |
| 2003/10/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10465 Activity:low |
10/3 bios-ain't-done-till-linux-won't-run
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39116902,00.htm
\_ Time to adopt OpenBIOS
\_ time for osX
\_ what was the line from starwars: "The tighter they grasp,
the more of them will slip through their fingers.." ?
\_ Welcome to reality. That was a movie, this is life.
\_ Get over it. Compaq SmartStart bios for Proliant servers
has been WinNT-based forever now. If that's not enough,
for once I'd suggest a big 'hooray' for the ChiCom
electronics industry as a balancing factor. Combine
(http://tinyurl.com/ppo7 - propaganda) with Red Flag Linux
and you may realize that 1 billion screaming Chinese aren't
going to be voluntarily shoehorned into having their pirate
DVD PC game stations running Windows 2010. -John
[formatd was here even though John should be able to self-f]
\_ John apologizes, John was on way-too-wide xterm.
John promises introspection and betterment in
future. Please forgive John. And apparently URL
is dead too--was meant to refer to Dragon CPU.
future. Please forgive John.
\_ fuck you, John. Number of Communist Party member in
China is roughly around 100k. Consider we got
1.3+ billion people, it is so fucking unfair to label
us that way. Years of Berkeley, you haven't learn
how to seperate regime and the nation and its people.
you white imperalist. Yes, you are. Based upon
your logic, you are responsible for Iraq and Afghan,
especially consider the regime is elected by people
\_ Pardon me, but what the fuck are you talking about?
Dragon CPU development is Chinese government
sponsored, and the domestic electronics industry
there is "strongly motivated" by various govt. trade
bodies to compete with US commercial entities. Red
Flag Linux is openly sponsored by the Chinese
post office and other (government) organizations.
Chinese government is, well, communist, or at least
they say so. But if that pisses you off, I strongly
apologize and take back my assertion that the
Chinese (1 billion of them, and please _do_ point out
where I said they're all commies) are smart enough
to use technical alternatives to what M$ wants them
to buy. And I should add that after years of
Berkeley, I have a very solid understanding of
politics, sociology and economics, and in contrast
to you, a GRASP OF HOW TO WRITE A PROPER ENGLISH
SENTENCE, YOU BLITHERING FUCKWIT. Eat a turd and
wither, ChiCom troll. -John
\_ um, I think you've been trolled, John.
No one on the motd really writes English as
badly as the above poster claims to.
\_ law of averages. Idiots do exist.
like you
\_ yeah and uhm yeah so take that and that and that and
you're a big bad white cracker racist and china isnt
communist and john is evil whitey imperialist racist
and cant format and has big bad whitey xterm format
problem in afghan and iraq and Hey, did anyone see
future. Please forgive John.
my bag? I think I left it on the boat! |
| 2003/9/28-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:10353 Activity:nil 50%like:10335 |
9/28 Hey ChiCom troll, another one for you:
http://www.chinaembassy.org.pl/pol/44281.html (Poland?) -John
\_ Falun Gong is evil.
\_ As you probably know, the western media will support any group
that has anything remotely bad to say about China. This has been
the case, and will probably always be the case for a while.
\_ With good reason. There's little good to be said about the
current Chinese government.
\_ I don't know what is your reference. Compare with US
government, then, perhaps. But the current Chinese
government ever since the economic reform deserve
some credit. Take aside all the fancy stuff such as
democracy, etc, life for average Chinese citizen has
gone better for the past 15 years.
\_ As opposed to the time before the past 15 years, where
the communists were also in charge? Dumbass.
\_ Before it was communism, now it is capitalism.
Capitalism is good. I love it.
\_ It's all that "fancy stuff" that you dismiss so readily
that makes the difference between good and evil. Mussolini
made the trains run on time and Hitler turned the German
economy around. Are those your role models for China?
\_ you invoked Hitler .. you lost.
\_ For more info on the mechanics of Godwin's Law,
we bring you the Godwin's Law FAQ:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin
\_ jesus. what a fucking waste of time. apparently
i haven't been missing anything since i stopped
reading usenet eight years ago.
\_ Ah, I see -- since you've been caught
misusing Godwin's law and pointed to a site
actually clarifying it for you...it's therefore
not worth reading? That's really dumb.
\_ And you're posting on the motd? *ring* Kettle,
this is the pot calling. You're black.
\_ ok, ok, but i know i have a problem,
and i'm trying to quit.
\_ China's role model has always been Taiwan, S. Korea,
Singapore. Hitler believed in white supremacy, living
space and conquest. China is more interested in making
money. China's boom is driven by economic liberalization,
trade, entrepreneurship, foreign investments. None of
these can be said of Nazi Germany.
\_ by "always" you mean since Deng took over, right?
\_ so you'd prefer a country that would invade another for
no good reason other than they have oil?
\_ Good countertroll. *polite clapping*.
\_ Hey, some jealous fiend deleted *my* congrads on a
good countertroll! I insist I get my counter troll
points! It's in the archives! -fellow troll |
| 2003/9/26-27 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10335 Activity:high 50%like:10353 |
9/26 Hey ChiCom troll, I found you something you can have fun with.
http://www.centurychina.com/history/krwarfaq.html -John
\_ Thanks john. Most US think Korean war was an idealogical
war between the Communists and the West. While there is a
war between the Communist and the West. While there is a
little element of that, the motive behind China's involvement
was self-defense. Mind you, at the time, USA did not recognize
the establishment in Beijing as China's legitimate government.
Under these circumstances, the newly established PRC was nervous
about having US Army, who aided the Nationalist throughout the
civil war, pressing to their border.
\_ Communists -!aaron
little element of that, the motive behind China's involvement
was self-defense. Mind you, at the time, USA does not recognize
\_ did -!aaron
\_ I am sure a Nazi would be offended by that remark
\_ are we not at a University, where one would expect proper
usage of English?
\_ Are we not in the CSUA, where one would expect sloppy
usage of English?
the establishment in Beijing as China's legitment government.
\_ legitimate -!aaron
Under these circumstances, the newly established PRC was nerverous
nervous _/
-!aaron
about having US Army, who aids the Nationalist throughout the
\_ the -!aaron \_ aided -!aaron
civil war, is pressing to their border.
\_ delete "is" -!aaron
\_ bug fixes integrated. - !op
\_ Learn to write proper English, chinaboy. -!aaron
\_ This was written by some other idiot than the person
who put in suggested corrections.
\_ I bet GWB would find WMD's in China if he looked.
\_ China already advertises it has nukes. No need to
prove it by looking.
\_ Chill out, Grammar Nazi. -dgies
\_ I am sure a Nazi would be offended by that remark
\_ are we not at a University, where one would expect proper
usage of English?
\_ Are we not in the CSUA, where one would expect sloppy
usage of English?
\_ So the ChiComs sent a million men over someone else's border
in self defense? Against a few American divisions? Silly.
If all those GIs walked straight into China itself, they couldn't
do more than steal some rice and leave a few AmerAsian kids
behind in a few border villages.
\_ Not to justify their paranoia, but after the Opium Wars
and the Japanese invasion and occupation of much of the
country for 12 years, the Chinese had reasons to fear
foreign domination. -ausman
\_ this paranoia still exists until this day. I hope
Americans understand that. If every american has
your level of understanding, the sino-US relationship
will be much better.
\_ I bet GWB would find WMD's in China if he looked.
\_ China already advertises it has nukes. No need to
prove it by looking.
\_ Nah, MacArthur wanted to get CKS involved too, and CKS is
all too ready to help reclaim the mainland. PRC repeatedly
tried to start a dialogue with the US to get assurances
about US intentions, but US did not respond, and just
continued marching north up the Korean peninsula. Also, US
can always send in more divisions.
\_ MacArthur didn't set US foreign policy. It doesn't matter
what he wanted.
\_ That's not apparent at that time. Truman could've
been pushed around by MacArthur. PRC did not know
what US "foreign policy" was.
\_ MacArthur was a loose cannon that eventualy had to
be reigned in.
\_ MacArthur was a great man. It's civilian rule -
that's the damn problem
\_ if it's up to him, Beijing and other major
Chinese city would be nuked then. Ohh
wait... using weapon of mass destruction
on civilians is completely justified except
when you are a Muslim.
\_ MacArthur was a fool and an idiot who got by
on charisma and media love.
\_ graduating first in west point, and
having a famous father helped too
\_ Mao paid personal price for the involvement. His only son
was killed during the campaign.
\_ Doesn't Mao have many other illegitimate sons and daughters?
\_ The Great Leader can do no wrong and thus all of Greater
China are His children basking in the Ever Lasting Glow of
His Greatness and shall live Great and Gloriously under His
Rule, one Five Year Plan at a time!
\_ I am more interested in the sordid tales about Mao
and his affairs and illegitimate children.
\_ Hey Mao is only considered "70% correct, 30 % wrong"
in CCP pantheon now.
\_ Yes, that is what CCP said. no one in China really
pay attention to them. I mean, if you walk around
in the chinese city and ask their opinion about Mao,
the general consenses is actually quite negative
for the 10 years of culture revolution he started.
\_ Answer this, what do you think the US will do if the Soviet
invaded Mexico or one of our neighboring countries? You think
we will sit and do nothing? give me a fucking break. The message
to for the US in the Korean war is, don't mess with our neighbors,
and I think the message has been delivered. If China did nothing,
then MacArthur would've went over the border to look for the
NK leaders, that part was for sure. The US did not recognize China
as a legitimate country at the time and has, and will, do anything
to break it apart. Tibet was another example.
\_ Right, but US is a plutocracy, China is a dictatorship. The
current Chinese government does not have the same legitimacy
as the US government.
\_ Fifty steps laughing at ten steps.
\_ China is an oligarchy.
\_ Saying a government is an oligarchy is not saying anything.
Any government of anything more than a remote village
is an oligarchy almost by definition. The Chinese
government is neither democratic nor representative.
\_ No, I'm saying you know the meaning of
the word, but seem to be largely ignorant
of real world civics and how the word
actually translates into reality. As for
you being a simpleton...well...your
previous comment seems to lend more than
enough credence. Good luck with that
dictionary, kid.
It is brutal and self-perpetuating, and does not represent
the will or the best interests of the average chinese
person. Chinese nationalism is admirable, Chinese culture
has a lot to be proud of. However, the current government
is not one of those things. Making them benefit from your
positive feelings for your country of birth is a mistake.
\_ You're reading your definition wrong. Would you call
the US an oligarchy?
\_ Of course. An oligarchy is rule by the few. An
effective government consists of the few (relatively
speaking). Almost any country today is an oligarchy.
It is neither a positive nor a negative, it is simply
a feature of government.
\_ Perhaps you should use your dictionary to look
up 'Republic' and 'Democracy' as well as
Oligarchy. You may have the technical definition
pay attention to them. I mean, if you walk around
in the chinese city and ask their opinion about Mao,
the general consenses is actually quite negative
for the 10 years of culture revolution he started.
\_ Answer this, what do you think the US will do if the Soviet
invaded Mexico or one of our neighboring countries? You think
we will sit and do nothing? give me a fucking break. The message
to for the US in the Korean war is, don't mess with our neighbors,
and I think the message has been delivered. If China did nothing,
then MacArthur would've went over the border to look for the
to for the US in the Korean war is, don't mess with our neighbors,
and I think the message has been delivered. If China did nothing,
then MacArthur would've went over the border to look for the
NK leaders, that part was for sure. The US did not recognize China
as a legitimate country at the time and has, and will, do anything
to break it apart. Tibet was another example.
NK leaders, that part was for sure. The US did not recognize China
as a legitimate country at the time and has, and will, do anything
to break it apart. Tibet was another example.
\_ Right, but US is a plutocracy, China is a dictatorship. The
current Chinese government does not have the same legitimacy
as the US government.
\_ Fifty steps laughing at ten steps.
\_ China is an oligarchy.
\_ Saying a government is an oligarchy is not saying anything.
Any government of anything more than a remote village
is an oligarchy almost by definition. The Chinese
government is neither democratic nor representative.
It is brutal and self-perpetuating, and does not represent
the will or the best interests of the average chinese
positive feelings for your country is a mistake.
person. Chinese nationalism is admirable, Chinese culture
has a lot to be proud of. However, the current government
is not one of those things. Making them benefit from your
positive feelings for your country of birth is a mistake.
\_ You're reading your definition wrong. Would you call
the US an oligarchy?
of Oligarchy correct, but your understanding of
civics seems a little simplistic.
\_ So what you are saying is... I am not wrong,
but I am a simpleton anyways, (always good
to just start throwing something disparaging
after running out of actual stuff to say).
\_ No, I'm saying you know the meaning of
the word, but seem to be largely ignorant
of real world civics and how the word
actually translates into reality. As for
you being a simpleton...well...your
previous comment seems to lend more than
enough credence. Good luck with that
dictionary, kid.
\_ You miss the point of "supreme power". Supreme
power in the hands of the few with no recourse.
As much as some are trying to turn this country
into an oligarchy, the foundation of this country
is not. Oligarchy implies tyranny.
\_ No it doesn't. It implies only what it means,
which is rule by the few. You assume too much.
\_ Why is China an oligarchy? Wasn't Iraq also an oligarchy?
In both countries there was a premier guy, but also a bunch
of other guys helping. I.e. if Iraq was a dictatorship then
so is China.
\_ Nah, in Iraq, Saddam orders, and others listens. In PRC
Hu couldn't do very much without a reasonable concensus
among the top leadership.
\_ Maybe Hu is just a weakling then. I think Mao pretty
much had the same power as other dictators. |
| 2003/9/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10332 Activity:high |
9/25 Ted Rall sums it up quite nicely:
http://csua.org/u/4ie
\_ Yeah, I feel safer now already. The truth will never be found.
But least one dictator is gone. Now for Syria, Iran, N.Korea,
and Cuba.
\_ Why not Liberia and the Congo?
\_ Why not China and Kazakhstan?
\_ What the hell is in Liberia, Congo, and Kazakhstan?
Last time the U.S. fought China it was a bloody draw.
\_ Actually, mind your history. Last time the US fought
China, they'd driven them back halfway before the
PRC agreed to talk. And that's without nuking the
crap out of their supply linse, which would have been
the logical thing to do. Certainly would have
forestalled idiot motd PRC troll and his ignorant Tibet
drivel. And that, kids, is what it's all about! -John
\_ Not quite right. The Chinese had 700,000 to
1 million + soldiers, the U.S. a few divisions.
Truman and McCarthur assumed the Chinese
were bluffing in their assertions they would
come into war.
\_ Hey John, to paraphse seano - lick my micturating
rectum.
\_ Hey anonymous, to quote seano quoting me,
roses are red, violets are blue, tongue-fuck
my shithole, bitch. -John
\_ how do you micturate out of your rectum?
and isn't driving someone back halfway pretty
much a draw, assuming you don't want to take
the step of using nukes, which the u.s.
apparently wasn't ready to do?
\_ Hey, if you have to ask...
\_ John, we have never officially fought the PRC
before. Now, if you're talking about PRC units
in Korea, that's a different game.
\_ Duh. It was "PRC units in Korea" vs "US units in
Korea". WTF are you trying to say?
\_ Your history is whack here. After McCarther crossed
the Yalu, the PRC drove us all the way back to the
38th parallel. The war stalled there because open
the open terrain there was more advantagous to the
American style of combat, which was more dependent
on tanks and arty. As for nukes, it was the cold war:
Russia already told us that if we used them, they
would respond in kind. -ausman
\_ Not quite right. The Chinese had 700,000 to
1 million + soldiers, the U.S. a few divisions.
Truman and McCarthur assumed the Chinese
were bluffing in their assertions they would
come into war.
\_ [here I am]
\_ Thanks for the laugh! I enjoyed it.
\_ you are a pathetic little shit.
\_ Tee hee. This makes it even more precious.
\_ ass shit fucks damn hell cunts
\_ Cool, now I need to write a random cunt-word generating program
so I can keep you busy... forever. --ariana's cunt |
| 2003/9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10311 Activity:kinda low |
9/24 China+Tibet != Invasion. It is merely crushing a rebellion, like
any country will do.
US+Iraq = Invasion, any way you slice it. End of story.
\_ compare and contrast to us/mexico/texas
\_ I'd rather be invaded by the US than be anywhere in China where
they're crushing a rebellion.
\_ The US invaded Grenada too. I was there after the invasion (1994)
and people there were pretty happy about the US.
\_ so invasion is OK as long as the people are happy about it.
got it.
\_ for everyone that is happy, there will be someone else who
is unhappy. it's pointless to argue this way. an invasion
is an invasion. If Hitler won WWII, then by now, the "people"
will be happy about it too, you can count on it.
\_ really? do you really want to be invaded? I suppose you will be
the first one to welcomes the alien invasion force with open
arms because they can promise you end of corruption and a better
life style. maybe you should go to Iraq and pretend to be the
locals, let's see how life treats you there. Anyone who believes
it's ok to be invaded because the invader is 'better' has serious
problems.
\_ Rebellion? Tibet was an isolated, autonomous nation. China commie
army decided to "free" it (and move in the Han population).
\_ Nope, sorry, you're wrong. Thank you for playing. Read up on
some history before believing all the propoganda hype
generated by the Dalai Lama and the former Tibetian
aristocracy. Tibet has always been closely tied to China,
both politically and economically. Throughout history,
Chinese rulers have installed rulers into Tibet, so
Tibet has always been subject to Chinese rule.
\_ At the time of invasion, Tibet had a separate
gov., prime minister of sorts and an army. This
gov. was recognized by other nations such as
the US, India, Britian etc. Maybe you should
read up on history.
\_ Maybe you should learn to understand a point. The point
you made was that Tibet was an isolated, seperate country.
This has never been true. Tibet has had a long history of
having had a strong relationship (whether good or bad) with
China. In addition, it has been the gateway from India to
China for centuries. This is hardly the description of
an "isolated" country, and Tibet's autonomy has always
been subject to its larger neighbors. Whether you believe
Tibet should be autonomous is not the issue. The point
is that Tibet has always been a region of political
intrigue because of its central locality and its
geographical position in relation to China. Calling
it an isolated state without regard to its historical
underpinnings merely promulgates the simplistic views
of westerners towards Sinoistic relationships in general.
I'm sure that you would have similar objects if I were to
say "Give North Ireland back to the Irish!" The issue
has never been, and will never be as simple as black and
white.
\_ yeah, if any of part of China would declare independence
today, then I am sure the US, Britian, would instantly
recognize it as well.
\_ Wasn't it the Manchus who first did that a few hundred years ago?
\_ This is awesome. One little post that just pointed out a
fairly balanced article that showed that the "Tibetan utopia"
promoted by the Dalai Lama might not be the reality, and
suddenly we've got TWO full on flamefests in less than 24 hours.
Well done, jerking knees! I love how there's no such thing as
a nuanced opinion, a grey area, or a complicated problem in
MotdLand. And here, I'll call myself a COMMIE PINKO FAGGOT
CHINA-LOVER so you don't have to:
\_ You seem to be using 'balanced' as a keyword for moral
relativism. That Tibet was a medieval theocratic hellhole
is most likely true, but how does that justify China's invasion
and institution of their own brand of genocidal modern communist
hellhole (which is likely worse)? That China had influence over
Tibet for a brief period in the 20th century does not give them
any justification for this. The Mongols had influence over China
for hundreds of years, does that mean Mongolia should invade?
\_ Mongol dynasty in China lasted slightly more than 100 years,
not hundreds of years.
\_ COMMIE PINKO FAGGOT CHINA-LOVER!
There. Less work for you.
and people there were pretty happy about that. |
| 2003/9/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10309 Activity:low |
9/23 Cool! China, the motd, and Hillary all have something directly in
common now! (that was a light joke, for the humorless who can't tell)
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/24/international/asia/24CHIN.html?ex=1064980800&en=2447c1a381a64ce5&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
\_ I only censoring 1% of you posting.
\_ I restoring 100% of me posting.
\_ No, you sue me, you racist imperialist Chinese hater, for
no reason. Stupid American, always mean on every China.
Not censoring, edit. |
| 2003/9/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10295 Activity:moderate |
9/23 Myth of pre-Chinese Tibetan "utopia"
http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html
\_ yeah, its much better now. The Chinses are killing monks,
burning monastaries, destroying religious texts, forcably
sterilizing Tibetan women, taking children as political
prisoners, and relocating Han Chinese to populate the regon.
\_ Likely you didn't even follow the link. I'm in agreement
with you mostly - Chinese rule is no picnic. However, Westerners
love to romanticize pre-China tibet and in particular the
Dalai Lama, when the reality is much more complicated.
\_ It is hard to be worse than what it was like under the rule
of the Lama. As for destroying monasteries, see below.
\_ Wow, really? The lamas were genociding their own
people? Have you published this shocking new historical
discovery? This is PhD quality history research! Whoa!
The lamas were butchers... who ever woulda thunk it?
\_ Just because it sucked before doesn't mean it's ok for the
communists to move in and turn it into a communist anti-
utopia. It's both worse now and oppressive. BTW, they
stopped destroying monasteries decades ago after destroying
the first 5,000 of them. With only a few dozen left, it
doesn't matter anymore.
\_ Likeley you have NO idea I followed the link, bozo.
Yes, Old tibet is not utopia, but current tibet is
a total tradegy. have some compassion.
\_ Modern tibet is probably much like previous
incarnations of Tibet. The Tibetian problem has
\_ Are you HIGH?
always been Sinoistic in nature. Tibet and China
share a common history, and relations have always
entangled. Westerners should be wise to learn the
true nature of the issues before proclaiming their
one-sided views on subjects they have no true idea
about. Tibet, like Iraq, like Palestine, has no
easy questions to profer, and no easy answers.
\_ I love it when someone refers to systematic genocide
as "The <insert victim race here> Problem". The Tibetan
Problem. The Jewish Problem. The Kurdish Problem. The
Native Problem. It goes on. Add your favorites.
\_ systematic eradication of a culture is indefensible.
The Chinese burned all the Tibetan artifacts they
could find. They slaughtered all the monks in Tibet.
They forcibly moved in a Chinese population in order
to breed out the Tibetan culture. How do you explain
that in the context of history?
\_ The central governement was singularly lenient when
it comes to Tibetan insurgency. The current Dalai
Lama and his huge entourage was essentially allowed
to go when they were totally surrounded. Despite
repeated uprising by armed monks (a buddhist
oxymoron), they were not systematically executed,
although I would not envy their position. The ethnic
tibetan red guards did most of the desrution of
cultural treasures, thinking rightly that their
once rich culrture has so far fallen behind the
outside world (more so than say Afghanistan) but
wrongly that they could leap forward by destroying
what they already had. In fact the Chinese army
were the one who prevented the destruction of the
major sites during the cultural revolution.
\_ That's actually pretty interesting. Do you have
any URL's/references that I can follow up on during
my free time? TIA. -mice
\_ He can't provide any sources not from the
communists. It's complete bullshit.
\_ There is a book in Chinese called "Sky Burial
- xxxxx" where xxxxx I have forgotten. Prob.
no English translation exists, since a book
that does not whooly condemens the Chinese
has a hard time getting published in the west.
To the "China Bad" people, a book being written
by a Han Chinese is automatically discredited
unless the author is a card carrying dissident,
which in this case is kind of true. He has been
arrested before. I do not really like his
analysis or prose but at least he
tries to do a research of the facts and ends up
offending everyone. Actually if one is willing
to be rational for a second, it is obvious what
kind of a place where people send their children
to become monks must be the exact opposite of
a paradise. The propanganda of the Chinese
government regarding the extreme sad state of
Tibet before Dalai ran away is basically true,
but of course they like to neglect the many
blunders they committed in Tibet and elsewhere
that costed many many lives. Though it is
nothing the government'd be proud to advertise,
Tibet is one of the places where situation did
not become worse than before even during the
worst years of Mao's rule. Anyway, both the
truth and the half truth are less appealing
than the fairy/horror tale + hollywood preaching
of the Lama. BTW, I visited Tibet twice.
There is tension there but nothing too serious.
In terms of ethnicity, it's going the way of
the US sans genocide (of Indians). That
is the worst possibility except for all the
others, human being human.
\_ Goes to show ya, history is written by the
victors/conquerors.
\_ Ok, that's all nice but you still haven't
provided the tiniest shred of proof. This is
communist propaganda and nothing more. To
say that it's hard to get anything published
in the West is so laughable as to be beyond
absurd. Hello? Duh? We don't have the
censorship here that your beloved communists
inflict on their people on a daily basis.
I'll only respond to one other point, the
idea that there's little tension in Tibet:
of course by this point that could be true.
The communists murdered, imprisoned, or
exiled 99% of the resistence. One of my
professors visited 10 years ago and reported
share a common history, and relations have always
entangled. Westerners should be wise to learn the
that by that time the communists had shipped
in so many non-Tibetans that there really
was no serious hope of ever restoring what
little is left of Tibetan culture. So I say
to you, congratulations on your communist
hero's successful genocide of another people.
\_ What was so complicated? There was Tibet. There was
China. China invaded Tibet. End of story.
\_ You could go on to say there was alway US., there was
always Tibet. But if you really want to use your head
and learn something real, you should know that
Tibetan was an automonous region within Chinese
dynasties, which is sort of like a federated system.
Then they wanted to break away when the central
government was under siege from all sides. The rest
is history. Yes, the military operation and followup
restoration was harsh, but it is brutal in the sense
that the US civil war and the consequent years of
restoration was harsh, and probably more so in
relative scale. Anyway, Dalai Lama's bid for
independence had all to do with personal ambition of
a sector of a tiny but rutheless ruling elite, taken
advantage of by foreign powers (Britan, Russian, then
India and US), than the welfare of the people or their
religious faith. Alas it was a failed gamble and has
terrible consequency for all people of China, Tibetans
or otherwise, except those "refugees" who live a
pampered life on the Swiss alps and his holiness
who has become an icon and idol like a rock star.
\_ You confuse central control of government with
cultural genocide. The average peasant doesn't
care, nor need to care, who they pay their taxes
to. They do and should care when someone is
killing them en masse, destroyed 5000+ of their
true nature of the issues before proclaiming their
one-sided views on subjects they have no true idea
about. Tibet, like Iraq, like Palestine, has no
easy questions to profer, and no easy answers.
\_ What was so complicated? There was Tibet. There was
China. China invaded Tibet. End of story.
~5050 temples, imprisoned, killed, or exiled all
of their leaders who wouldn't submit and has
imported (like cattle) more foreigners than your
own native headcount all in an outrageous and
blatant effort to obliterate your people from the
face of the earth. Taxes is politics. What the
communists have done and have almost completed is
pure genocide.
\_ Ahem, there's no such thing as "Palestine". Talk about
learning your history, you'd be wise to do the same.
\_ Have you been to Tibet? You might want to learn:
http://www.tibet.com/WhitePaper
point, try:
\_ A very one-sided view. For a more balanced view-
point, try:
\_ What was so complicated? There was Tibet. There was
The Snow Lion and the Dragon: China, Tibet, and the
Dalai Lama by Melvyn C. Goldstein.
http://tinyurl.com/ofvw
China. China invaded Tibet. End of story.
\_ Ahem, there's no such thing as "Palestine". Talk about
\_ This site uses the fact that China does not have
effective control of Tibet from 1911 to 1951 as
evidence for Tibetan independence then, and argument for
learning your history, you'd be wise to do the same.
\_ Have you been to Tibet? You might want to learn:
http://www.tibet.com/WhitePaper
The Snow Lion and the Dragon: China, Tibet, and the
Dalai Lama by Melvyn C. Goldstein.
http://tinyurl.com/ofvw
\_ This site uses the fact that China does not have
effective control of Tibet from 1911 to 1951 as
evidence for Tibetan independence, conveniently
ignoring the fact that China was fragmented from 1911,
with warlords, KMT, CCP, Imperial Japan, Russians,
Western colonialists all vying for a share of the pie,
with no single government controlling the country,
that is until the commies reunited the nation.
\_ Do we have a single ChiCom troll, or multiple ones? -John
\_ Bringing Chinese-rule to Tibet!
\_ Bring Tibetan rule to China!
Tibetan independence now, conveniently ignoring the
fact that China was fragmented from 1911 until the
middle of the twentieth century, with warlords, KMT,
CCP, Imperial Japan, Russians, Western colonialists
all vying for a share of the pie, and with no single
governing entity controlling the country,
that is, until the commies reunited the nation.
\_ I've already addressed enough of your communist
propaganda. See my above about taxes vs genocide.
\_ Do we have a single ChiCom troll, or multiple ones? -John
\_ Kill the Communist Bandits!
\_ There's at least two unless there is one who has greatly
improved his English skills in the last 6 weeks.
\_ Bringing Chinese-rule to Tibet!
\_ Bring Tibetan rule to China!
\_ US out of North America!
\_ Tibet illustrates the failure of pacifist ideology:
Pacifist cultures get smushed by non-pacifist ones. |
| 2003/9/19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Finance/Investment] UID:10252 Activity:nil |
9/18 http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=2050678 The world economy is screwed. Frightening. Perhaps it's time for the Greater China (PRC, ROC, HK, SG) region to allow its currency to appreciate slightly, and to spend its trade surplus on developing its own countries and people, but the region is not big or powerful enough to solve the world's problem by itself. Also, US probably shouldn't have gone to Iraq, but saved the money, which would've helped a little too. And Japan and Germany need to get their act together. Otherwise it's Great Depression 2. \_ Its all the white imperialist protorapist fault!!! \_ Huh? I am suggesting ways that would help lessen the burden on the US. Blame goes all around. Did you bother to read the article? \_ Err... read the article please. The Economist consistantly point out that China's economy, despite media hype, is not that big of an economy (in the article about 1 month back, it said that China's economy is about the size of Italy, or 3% of Global GDP). Further, China is not competing with USA in all front. Those manufacture jobs will moved to somehwere else, Mexico, Indonesia, or some odd ex-Soviet block nation if it's not moved in China. China is not running a high trade surplus in general (it has huge trade plus with USA, but trade deficit with virtually all its neighboring country, so in effect, China is the tiny lawn-mower engine of Asia... compare with USA being the jet engine of the world). Lastly, what would you think GM, Coke Cola, Motorolla think about rising RMB while big chunk of THEIR plant is in China? These US firms are the benefisories of cheap Chinese currency. \_ I don't disagree with you. A few points though. Motorola, Coca-Cola, GM probably would not mind a slight controlled increase in the value of the Renminbi. They don't just have factories in China, an important and growing part of their market is very much there too. A pure export driven model like that of TW, SG, SK is not feasible for PRC because of its size. It needs to be driven by internal demand. Buying US dollars and debt forever is a no win game. While US uses the money to invest and improve productivity (and spend on good life), China's local companies remain short of credit. And once US dollar devalues, you essentially threw away a big chunk of your dollars. Instead, the money could be better invested in PRC, and help it innovate and move up the chain. As for China's trade deficit ex-USA, a big part of it is raw materials and commodities from SE Asia, Australia, etc. needed for China's manufactures. The trade deficit vis-a-vis Japan is more worrisome perhaps due to Japan's protectionism? As for manufacturing jobs moving to other countries, I am not too worried because I think China has a significant and growing margin (cost + productivity) versus those countries. No one wants a sudden drastic increase in the value of the Yuan, but a slight, controlled increase may be a good idea. This Econmist article pretty much sums it up: http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_id=2050783 \_ Just a note. The Economist also uses every opportunity to point out that Russia's GDP is "slightly larger than Belgium's". Whoever at Economist who's making those ridiculous GDP comparisons between different countries, obviously hasn't gasped the concept of the purchasing power parity adjusted GDP. They just compare the nominal \- you know the e'ist is the magazine that invented the BigMac index, right? \_ An excellent point, but I should point out that the Economist was merely the first publication to popularize the BigMac Index. It's been a standard conversation topic among expats and backpackers for much longer than it's been a stay of the Economist. \- topic of conversation != having a model and computing it and correlating to FX futures, comparing to PPP, UIP, RIP etc. GDPs as measured using US dollars using some exchange rate which is not saying much. In USA, dollar has a very low purchasing parity power compared to all poor counties and possibly most rich countries. Therefore, the non-purchasing power parity adjusted GDP does not convey much information about the size of economy. If you look at the PP adjusted GDP, then China is suddenly world's second largest economy. Of course, GDP still doesn't say much about how well off people are in a country. You'll have to look at the per capita GDP figures, and even then the per capita GDP can be a very rough measure depending on how equally on unequally the income is distributed. \_ And when you revalue the Yuan, PRC's GDP would go up immediately. |
| 2003/9/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:10195 Activity:high |
9/14 Regarding to thread regards to VW in China and environment.
It is unfair to blame China or other developing nation for
pollutions, as the reason why world is in such mess is because
Britian and US of A has been doing more than their share of
polluting for the past 150 years. Ultimately, issue of pollution
is closed related to energy use per capita, but developed nation
is not going to give in upon this fundamental fact, as
they are too happy with the lavashing life style at the expense
of global environment. Like farm subsidies, environment issue
is another instrument to achieve wealthy nation's economic
agenda.
\_ Your analysis is flawed. You need to read up on how technology
and development affect pollution levels. The relationship you
draw between per-capita use and pollution is not well correlated.
\_ It's not 'blame'. There's an economic theory called 'the advantage
of backwardness'--essentially, developing economies are able to
leapfrog entire developmental steps, thereby avoiding being
saddled with 'legacy' sectors and infrastructure (like steel and
coal in the US). A lot of the beef people have with China
(and you can put a lot of this blame at the door of western
manufacturers who don't supply Chinese consumers with goods meeting
similar environmental standards) is that it's reaping the fruits
of rapid development, without taking environmental responsibility
accordingly. And remember, energy use does not necessarily equal
pollution (although very often this is sadly the case.) -John
\_ John, just to give you an example of CFCs, as you know, CFC
is the stuff that kills ozone layer. USA was pressing
China to use CFC replacement and establish CFC recycle
program on all its refrigerator and air conditioning.
Could China leapfrog the CFC and uses CFC replacement
directly? in principle, yes. But CFC cost more to
and which nation USA or China, contributed more to the
destruction of ozone layer?
If USA really care about environment, or actually
manufacture. Who is going to be asked to bear the
extra cost? China does. who is the major manufacture
of CFC replacement and its technology? United States.
Granted, if USA really care about environment, or actually
show any sign of remorse on how much it has contributed to
the destruction of ozone, you would think that USA and
expand its market to China. Another example. You would
think China can leapfrog the coal burning stage of
industrial revolution. Guess what, coal is the only form
of fossil fuel which China has plenty of (and plenty is in
a relative term). China's coal, by comparison, is relatively
"dirty" because it has high sulfur content, but what are
the alternatives? import natural gas from Canada, and
petro from companies which US dominates? You may have
the best intentions, but in the end, it's always the lobbiest
of the industry prevail. --OP
\_ John, as you can well imagine, the company that sells Chinese
equipments see it as an ideal dumping ground for products that
no longer satisfy stringent environmental regulations of the
West. I don't think there are a lot of Chinese who would like
to pollute their own environment. However, most officials in
China in a position to decide what to purchase, whether in the
public or private sectors, do not have much clue about what is
ecological sound and what is not. They are pressed between the
stick of stern and often politically motivated criticism (there
people who make a living by criticizing) and carrots (often
bribes) waved by profit driven greedy companies. Guess
which side appeals to them more? And the same thing happens to
other developping countries as well.
other developed nation would provide those CFC replacement
at the regular CFC cost. But no. The opposite is happening.
The administration at the time, pressued by the lobbiest and
compaign contributor, was leveraging this CFC issue trying to
expand its market to China. In the end, it's all about
who is making that extra buck. Another example is the
power-saving light bulb. Those things are pretty popular
in USA because it cuts power consumption thus, energy use.
But the manufacturing of this light bulb involves mercury and
other exotic and toxic metals. When you flick the light
switch
\_ If China cared about the environment, they'd pay the same
non-CFC costs as everyone else. They live under the same
ozone layer and should care as much. Or more than us if
you buy the claim below that having more people means they
care more about the environment.
\_ Everyone cares about the environment, as long as it's
not hitting their wallet.
\_ I think it's perfectly fine to attempt to get china to
conform to sane environmental policy, just like I think
the bush administratin should regnize that we all live
on the same planet and that paving it with reckless abandon
with only regard to how it increases shareholder value is
not the wisest way to govern.
\_ China in some pervert way more concerned about environment
simply because they got too many people and they would face
the consequences of it a lot more quickly.
\_ Wow, what an amazing bit of propoganda. This is a flat-out
lie. The Chinese government's actions speak infinitely louder
than their words on the environment issue. The truth is they
don't give a shit. Chinese environmental policy doesn't
exist. The US has very strong laws compared to China and most
of the rest of the world. Some parts of western Europe have
stronger laws but not across the board and a little money to
grease the wheels will get you over any little environmental
little bumps in the road there. Back to China: the leaders
don't give a shit about the people. If they lost a few
hundred million they could temporarily end the very unpopular
one child policy and improve the standards of living for the
rest.
\_ now, that is a lie. just look at USA's carbon dioxide
emission. by all account, USA is the worse pollutors
on face of the earth, and that is the fact. You can
have all the environment law you want, it still doesn't
change the fact that USA is the worse pollutor on the
planet.
\_ I never said otherwise. I said we have some of the
toughest laws and we enforce them. No lie. If you'd
like to stop consuming and can convince 270+ million
others to do the same then we'll be the least poluting
country on the planet. You can start by turning off
your incredibly toxic computer and paying to have it
disposed of safely which will cost more than the market
value of the computer today.
\_ Nah, I think I will start by defacing a few SUVs.
\_ Frankly, not enough of the world is paved. |
| 2003/9/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10187 Activity:kinda low |
9/13 Volkswagon sold more cars in China than in Germany
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/12/business/worldbusiness/12cars.html
\_ old news. China already passed Germany as 3rd largest auto
market in the world. Mind you, that when that stat was taken,
China has not open up market for auto-finance yet. I am a
Chinese, and I am deeply concerned with the way this is going.
Most of China's city is not equipped for millions of cars, not
to mention environment impact.
\_ China has always been deeply concerned about the environment.
\_ Yeah that's why they're building the 3 gorges river dam and
have been destroying their own rice paddies to the north of
Beijing for 20+ years with unsound farming methods. The real
concern is we're down wind. If they put enough shit in the
air from cars and heavy industry, it's going to blow right
over the pacific and settle in the pacific northwest and
parts of northern CA. (The part of CA where Berkeley is for
those light on geography skills).
\_ hmm, ever heard of the Hoover dam?
\_ hopefully some smart guy in the gwbush admin has
realized this and is cooking up some great free
market scheme to deal with this problem, but
i really doubt it
\_ Um. GWBush admin.... saving CA... yeah, right. They'll
probably encourage China to drop emissions controls.
\_ I think they'll tell China about how they can
fix the environment by emitting deplted uranium.
\_ Building? It's completed. Humans have been building dams
since 4000BC. Last time I checked the Colorado is still
dammed. Maybe you prefer that those Chinese provinces
(several hundred million people) continue to burn coal
instead?
\_ It's not fully operational. They're still flooding out
the upriver areas, dislocating 10 million people and
wiping out big chunk of their own history. And then
when the fault line they built it on goes, a few hundred
gazillion tons of water is going to wash out everything
down river to the ocean wiping out another few hundred
million people, but hey, as long as they don't burn coal
it's ok, right? If you knew *anything* about this
project you wouldn't be so flip about it like it's yet
another random dam. It isn't and you'd know that if
you knew anything, but you don't. I notice you're also
completely ignoreant of the wide spread devastation
they're inflicting on their own food basket in the north.
\_ You are the one who mentioned "the real concern is
we're down wind". Well, I can see how burning coal
would cause problem down wind, but not Yangtze
flooding. In any case, now every two years,
millions of people get dislocated WITHOUT damming
due to flooding of the Yangtze.
\_ Maybe, but our environmentalism is more important
than Chinese flood dislocation. They've been
flooded for thousands of years, and they should
be used to it by now.
\_ Their coal burning isn't an issue. A few hundred
million cars and the heavy industry required to
make, maintain, and replace them is. The 3 gorges
project is one example of how the environment is
not a concern there in any way, shape, or form.
The fact that they're destroying their own food
producing areas in the north is more than just bad
farm science, it's sheer insanity. I wonder what
the next Five Year Plan will be.
\_ You are a Chinese, but are you from China?
\_ what differences does it make? -- heart in the motherland
\_ The person mentioned that he is "a Chinese". What
differences does that make? -- heart for the humankind
\_ Does VW manufacture cars in China now?
\_not "now." VW has been in China for almost a decade, if not
more.
\_ Go to Shanghai, the joint venture between VW and the local
manufacturer (forget their name), have the largets market
share in China currently. I think their main $$$ maker is
the Santana.
\_ Good thing China is in Kyoto - oh wait...
\_ look at who is talking... the biggest pollutor in the damn
world. |
| 2003/8/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:10023 Activity:low |
8/30 I just walked by a really really fancy Chinese restaurant and
according to the menu they serve shark fins, lion head, tiger paws,
and peacock breasts. What's wrong with Chinese people? Shouldn't
they go to jail for serving endangered species?
\- did they serve troll? --psb
\- did they serve troll? --psb
\_ nothing wrong with serving troll. they regenerate.
\_ those are historical names. none of that stuff is actually in
there.
\_ i thought shark fin soup has shark fin.
\_ I've eaten a lot of moon cakes and sun biscuits. -chinese
\- that's no moon --psb
\_ are sun biscuits hot?
\_ You forgot monkey brains and dog.
\_ woof!
\_ mmm civet |
| 2003/8/24-25 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:29453 Activity:high |
8/23 what's really at stake in iraq:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/24/opinion/24FRIE.html
\_ NYTimes? With their track record the last few years, you might as
well post something from the National Enquirer. (I didn't read the
link because it doesn't matter what the NYT publishes anymore)
\_ So you're sticking to reputable, unbiased sources like
Washington Times and Fox News then, I'm assuming. Fair
and balanced!
\_ Actually with people like Thomas Friedman and Judith Miller
writing for them the NYTimescan feel like Fox or the
Moonie Times sometimes. Just that no one ever calls the
NYTimes on their bullshit.
\_ That's a decently written editorial with some interesting
points, which, whether you agree with him or not, are
well-argued and well-presented. Regarding the Fox news
comparison, do you rate news sources for the opinions they
present, or for how they present them? I don't know about
you, but I'm more interested in a persuasive, eloquent
argument that I disagree with, than a rah-rah piece of
demagoguery that meshes with my own opinions... -John
\_ Fox TV sounds *exactly* like the NYT to me. It's just
from the opposing view and they don't take themselves
so gravely seriously like the NYT does for some
mysterious reason. Oh yeah, Fox hasn't yet been busted
with multiple flat out ficticious "news reports" unlike
the NYT. I can read opinion on the net without the NYT
filter tainting it.
\_ Well ain't it just peachy then that you have the god-
given right to choose your own news sources. In any
case, that's not a news article, it is an op-ed
piece. And good luck finding something completely
unbiased--if you're not consuming news with a grain
of salt, you've losing out regardless. -John
\_ Summary: Iraq is about culture, but we can't say that because it
doesn't play well on TV. It's an important war to win, on human
rights grounds alone. But Bush has handled this so idiotically--
alienating our allies, trying bear the cost alone while cutting
accelerated production of nuclear weapons, there
taxes domestically, and lying outright about the immediate need
for war-- that we may lose it anyway.
\_ Exactly which allies are those? France, who considers
Iraq their client state? Germany, who sold
Iran their gas centrifuge technology and continually
insulted the President for domestic political gain?
Russia and China which remain Communist states? Please
do explain yourself.
\_ I was going to explain how stupid this person was and
then I saw the he claims Russia is still a Communist
state and realized he has already done my work for me.
\_ All of the same apparitchik remain in power,
the KGB still exists, Putin is KGB, Russia has
accelerated R&D of nuclear weapons, there
is no free press, etc. etc. To repeat, the same
elite holds power but they call themselves something
else. I'd trust the judgement of leaders of
former eastern bloc countries than yours.
\_ How about China? It is a mirror opposite of Russia.
Same party, same people in power, but they've moved to
market economy since mid 1980's. and you call China a
Communist state?
\_ I think China is going for a kind of nationalist
unification of big business and government, which
is what people call fascism.
\_ China's 'aspirations' for political and economic
freedom are transparent in its client state
North Korea.
\_ They haven't moved to a market economy. They have
some of the highest barriers to entry in the world.
The whole thing is a giant state owned business. Can
I get some of that shit you're smoking? |
| 2003/7/31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:29189 Activity:very high |
7/30 Pentagon: China Aiming Missiles at Taiwan
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20030730/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_china_military_2
\_ China has been aiming missiles at Taiwan since they got their first
missile. This isn't news. It also isn't news that they're going
to invade as soon as they think they can pull it off.
\_ China won't invade. They'll consider it if Taiwan has a
sovereignty referendum. The U.S. will prevent Taiwan from doing
that. The U.S. and China both prefer the status quo.
\_ Put another democrat in office and they will if they feel they
have the military might to do it. China sure as hell does not
prefer the status quo. It's a humiliation and international
embarassment.
\_ Laughably untrue. PRC gets a lot of money in transfers
from Taiwan. It's not worth their while to kill the
goose that lays the golden egg. If the Brits hadn't
made their silly 99-year lease deal, PRC would not have
annexed Hong Kong either, for the same reasons. Let's
face it: PRC puts on a good show of pushing a state-run
economy, but they prefer the riches that capitalist
throat-cutting brings in.
\_ you have no clue don't you?
\_ contrary to what you may think, the Brits had no
choice. Just like how they lost most of their
\_ evil is what evil speaks.
colonies.
\_ those f***ing brits have yet to paid for their
crime for colonizing half of the globe. fuck them!
\_ IMO, Taiwan is the rebellious child that China can
smack around when it gets tired of anti-U.S. propaganda.
I don't see the Taiwan issue as very humiliating for China,
especially when so many companies continue to move
operations from Taiwan to China.
\_ agree, and I am from Taiwan.
\_ For the cheap labor, not their technical expertise or
management ability. The mainland is being used as the
third world country that it is.
\_ how do you breathe with your head in the sand?
don't you get sand in your snorkel?
\_ I'm just waiting for their brand spanking new dam
to break, killing millions (they've already been
reports of shoddy worksmanship on the project)
\_ evil is what evil speaks. -dubya
\_ you know, you really should shut up or you really
expose your ignorance on this subject. The
mainland has techno-superiority over Taiwan
in many ways.
\_ In exactly what way did I imply any techno
comparison of China with Taiwan? Maybe you
should try rereading my post before arguing
with a point that is nonexistent.
\_ insufficient heavy lift/transport to hold the island b4
forces from the 7th fleet repel the invasion
\_ I heard even Australian navy can beat PRC navy.
\_ you've heard many things my child.
\_ Actually the guy is right. PRC navy is inferior
to Australia's. They only have a chance if it
is close to China's coast such that China's
air force and land-based missiles can play
a role.
\_ so how exactly is B*** admin going to hype
up the China threat thing again?? |
| 2003/6/23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic] UID:28818 Activity:very high |
6/23 Justice O'Connor is a disgrace. Souter and Stevens are morons.
The court ruled that 'diversity' is a compelling state
interest.
\_ You don't agree, so they are morons. Compelling. This was states'
rights decision-making at it's finest.
\_ Well, the old boys network is still like 200 million to 2.
\_ i think Grat came out great. It says diversity is a state interest,
but the university's policy is not narrowly enough construed. it
strikes a really nice balance, in my opinion. -ali.
\_ Dear Troll, real conservatives don't believe the judges serving
the American people on the Supreme Court are morons because they
didn't agree with *your* personal philophy. As a real conservative
I'm more happy than unhappy with the ruling. Next time you try to
make conservatives look like idiots, please make some minimal
effort to get it right. Thanks! -rc
\_ The Freepers disagree with you.
\_ yeah AA is really based on "race" - esp when Asians are a smaller
minority but get no preferences. Don't forget the first race to be
discriminated against in this country were the Chinese. Any policy
with AA is racist pure and simple.
\_ got some revisionist history going on there?
\_ at one point asians were outscoring the ethnic majority at
Cal, they had to sue to allow more in. How's that for racism?
Sounds like AA for the ethnic majority. And it wasn't so long
ago. Also, the first race to be discriminated against in this
country were the native americans. |
| 2003/6/20 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:28779 Activity:nil |
6/19 To motd censor:
perhaps you can understand why Chinese government constantly
supress voice which they don't like now?
\_ you're only feeding the beast. really, i swear, the self appointed
motd censors always grow out of it and move on. a few of them have
even turned into decent contributors. just repost the lost
material and ignore it. |
| 2003/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:28752 Activity:nil 73%like:28746 |
6/18 http://csua.org/u/39y Yet another american soldier raping the local population. If our soldiers are raping allied civilians, what do you think they're doing to Iraqi women? \_ Buying them cheap. The starving and hopeless give the best bang for the buck. \_ the main issue is that US Military is pretty much immued to the local jurisdiction. And that USA tend to be very protective of her own subjects. This is nothing new. A century ago, British nationals could pretty much get away with anything in China for the same reason. \_ Damn! I wish I could be immued to the local jurisdiction! \_ Nonsense. You seriously want our soldiers to be subject to the concept of 'justice' that exists in the many places we send our troops? That's so naive and childish a concept it borders on the infantile. If you want to avoid US Soldier/Local Civilian problems, the only way is to not have our soldiers in other countries. The end results of that could be far far worse than the once per 4 years rape that happens. If you were truly concerned about the locals around the world, you'd be screaming everyday about the UN boys from other countries that are actively and openly engaged in the sex slave trade buying, selling, and raping the same women they're sent there to protect. \_ US troops are hugely involved in the local sex trade, too. Have you ever been to a military base overseas, or even in the US? The nearest town is almost always full of prostitution. It is hypocritical to condemn the UN soldiers of doing this while ignoring the fact that the US does the same thing. -veteran \_ There is also a problem with sexual assault/rape within the armed forces, and fraternization, too. -veteran#2 \_ It would be better if the US soldiers weren't customers but our officers are not actively engaged in buying, selling, and moving women around the world. You're trying to make some sort of moral equivalency which doesn't exist. Example: a pot smoker in Berkeley is *not* the same level of criminal as the grower moving a few tons of pot every year. Both are criminals but one would get a small fine at worst while the other would get big time at the big house. (insert your drug of choice in that) \_ And the US tends to cover up those nasty rumors about permitting military contractors to have child sex slaves. http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/163052.html \_ True enough. While visiting prostitues certainly creates the demand for the sex trade, it is not the same kind of crime as actually running it. -veteran \_ Flapdoodle. There's no need to make this an either-or proposition. Improve the process by which these cases are reviewed by military tribunal, and hand over suspects in non-frivolous, evidence-supported cases. This will protect the troops from malicious and baseless accusations and still address real problems. \_ Ok, let's say a US soldier is involved in an evidence supported case in Pakistan. You're going to turn that guy over to the mullahs running the northwest province under shariah islamic laws? Why don't you just do him a favor and put him in front of a firing squad instead? \_ Hey, if you do the crime in a foreign country, you get to face the consequences of your actions. That said, we could even modify the process to weed out crimes for which we have no analog here in the US and (like Mexico) refuse to extradite criminals if we believe the expected punishment will be cruel and unusual by our standards. There's a lot of room to work with here. \_ The difference is that a soldier doesn't have any choice about going to some third world shit hole with brutal laws and no justice. As a civilian I can choose to not be subjected to that by simply not booking the flight. Soldiers go where they're told to go. They should be subject to the US code of military justice. That's why it exists. I'm not in any way saying rape is ok or that our guys shouldn't get punished for it. I'm saying they should be consistently subject to the same code no matter where they might be assigned. \_ We have a draft again? Oh whoops, it's all volunteers. And last I checked, I was able to contain my hormones enough to not rape anyone. Bring 'em all home, stop wasting my dough. -John \_ My country Singapore is the smartest. We let US have small base in Singapore in case commie China turn into big bad wolf. US has no better choice since getting kicked out of Pilipines. Also, we tell US to follow local jurisdiction just like Michael Fay. Small little red light district in Geylang for horny US GIs, but no mischief or arse gets cane. Neighborhood bullies like Malaysia and Indonesia also don't dare to cause mischief with US base in Spore. By the way, we detained like 10 terrorists without trial over the years. US beat us by detaining 762 in Guatanamo Bay. Poor GIs in boring Geyland with ugly spore girls must miss Olongapo bad. \_ LAH! \_ Guatmo.. A lovely place. Females staying there are advised upon arriving to lock their doors and keep a loaded firearm nearby because the US marines and navy boys tend to get a little wild. I've had female friends talk about being woken up in the middle of the night as drunken sailors and marines attempted to knock down their door for a little unrequested R&R. \_ I'm sure they're willing to pay after. What's the problem? \_ Yermom keeps wanting more than the $5 she's worth. |
| 2003/6/11 [Politics, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:28706 Activity:insanely high |
6/11 I highly recommend Amy Chua's book "World on Fire". She writes about
how market-dominant minorities (chinese in SE asia, indians in
east africa, jews in post-communist russia, whites in zimbabwe, etc)
disproportionally benefit from free market economy. Blindly promoting
democracy and free market leads to disaster in most third world
countries.
\_ OMG the jews are dominating the economy in Russia? Let's drag
'em all out and gas 'em. While we're at it, let's nail the
chinks, the ragheads, and the honkies too.
\_ Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer, baby.
\_ Mugabe is solving the problem in Zimbabwe by allowing roaming thugs
to murder white farmers and take their land. The result is that the
already-bad food shortage is getting worse because the farmers who
were actually farming have been killed. Oh, and the poaching of
endangered species there is going through the roof due to the
disorder. Yay.
\_ He isn't "allowing". It is government sponsored and the thugs
getting the best land are his own relatives and army generals.
\_ Sorry about that. I didn't have any good references that made
that claim. Thanks for clearing it up.
\_ I've posted it to the motd before. I might be able to
find it again if anyone cared.
\_ What you miss is that economies can not transform third world
cesspools into first world liberal democracies overnight. A
complex set of institutions, such as the rule of law and
property rights, must develop incrementally. This can be
a painful experience (although less so than Marxism) -
as evidenced in Western economic development.
Also, her thesis, like most liberals, implicitly assumes some
in vogue 'mascot' group has been victimized by
another ethnicity, implying the group is unable to govern
themselves. This is thinly veiled racism, and only perpetuates
the problem by deflecting responsibility
for their actions and the governments they support. With the
libs its always Im a victim and its someone else's fault.
\_ And free markets are the best way to establish the rule of law...
\_ responsibility? for one's own actions? are you a Republican?!
\_ Name one country that has followed the free market prescription
to success in the 60 years since the end of WWII. All the
countries that have tried: Russia, Argentina, Chile, Bolivia,
El Salvador, etc, are impoverished. The few countries that have
risen from general poverty have all protected their markets,
imposed tariffs on imports to help grow local industry, and
avoided IMF and World Bank meddling: Singapore, Taiwan and
South Korea. The Free Market ideologues have a good line of
rhetoric, but a very poor track record.
\_ For what purpose was the IMF was created? - hint post WWII
reconstruction. Irony is all the states you mentioned
have socialist / marxist tendencies. Chile, incidentally,
under the nationalist anti-communist Pinochet has
done quite well compared to its neigbors. Further,
'Free trade' and economic liberialism are not equivalent,
and if you read my statement, nowhere did I imply as
much.
[indent corrected]
\_ just curious on the motd opinions, where does israel fit into
these discussions? aren't they a free market and how was it
all established to work so much better than other nations?
\_ If I order this book through Amazon, do I get put on the FBI
potential terrorist list? |
| 2003/6/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:28704 Activity:insanely high |
6/11 So why is it that Taiwan and Tibet don't understand that the
motherland just wants to protect them and to be a part of greater
china as they've always been? Since china always owned these
places and they're the same people and culture what do they need
their own country for?
\_ Tibet is not Chinese. Tibet was isolated and had few ties with
the outside world. If they had been involved in the world,
perhaps wewould have had a Tibetan War like the Korean war.
\_ But the motherland just wants what is best for all its people.
I don't understand why anyone in Tibetan part of china would
resist a good thing? Many places have different people. Tibet
is more chinese now than indian where Tibetan cult leader now
hides and stirs disent against motherland.
\_ your chinese-faking fu needs improvement
\_ Please desist from infringing my trademark - m.stewart
\_ China mostly just leave Tibet alone, and in fact, helped
Tibet repulsed a few invaders (eg. Nepal) in the old days.
Then Evil White Men (tm) came and tried to make Tibet
an outpost of the British Empire (an extension of British
\_ Yes Tibet is China after enough Chinese move in and take
up residence, like in the occupied territories of palestine
\_ Bad troll.
\_ http://www.taiwannation.com.tw/english.htm
India, I guess). Then Tibet became a matter of vital
national interest (with British gunboats already roving on
the other side of China) for China, and they started insisting
on occupying and controlling it like some frothing at the
mouth, raving mad guard dogs.
\_ See? Tibet always part of China until British attack and
try to make colony.
\_ Nah, Tibet has always been part of the FNNCA (Federation
of Nomadic Nations of Central Asia). Your Chinese-
faking fu is still weak.
\_ By that reasoning the American Revolution was a waste of time,
and the US should just be a British colony still. There is more
to nations than culture.
\_ Tibet is not revolutioning from china! Tibet *is* china, not
colony. American colonies from many places, not just Britain.
\_ Your Chinese-faking fu is weak.
\_ You are splittist!
\_ yea, I'd like to split yermom's legs.
\_ China is protecting Taiwan and Tibet from what? |
| 2003/5/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:28563 Activity:high |
5/26 Bush Ban on Chinese Imports
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/27/133053.shtml
\_ Good for Bush.
\_ Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
\_ I love Chinese proverb. Where can I find more?
\_ Yeah, it would be terrible to give Bush credit for doing
something you like.
\_ If Bush did it, he can't like it. If Bush found and shared
the Fountain of Youth, he'd complain about how all these
newly young people are hiking through the woods and killing
the owls' natural habitat and it's all Bush's fault. There's
nothing like raw blind hatred to get you through the day.
\_ mmm, conservative hypocracy...
\_ I don't think that word means what you think it means.
\_ Hell, I don't think that word is spelled the way you
think it is.
\_ Conservatives do not believe in hate. They believe
in tolerance and using reason to convince their
opponents. See Rush Limbaugh, Micheal Savage, Ann
Coulter, Fox News, etc.
\_ and if that doesn't work, we can always invade
the country in the name of WMD and democracy.
\_ Generally, not a Bush fan - op
\_ hypocrisy written all over. If anything, USA is the one
who has the global ambition of be the hegemony of the world.
It is USA that has the 2nd large stockpiles of WMD and had
history of unleashing on defendless civilians for "moral"
"communication" and "scientific" reasons. USA is the
largest arms dealer in the world. And many of its product
is also manufactured by prisoners. |
| 2003/5/27-28 [Transportation/Car, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:28559 Activity:very high |
5/26 What happens when OSHA isn't looking:
http://ridah.net/stuff/safety.jpg
\_ Does Toyota make forklifts? If not, we know this is a toyota plant.
\_ Does Toyota make forklifts? If not, we know this is a toyota
plant.
\_ Yes, Toyota does make forklifts.
\_ That's hilarious. But the 2 guys on the orange lift should be
sitting on the back of the yellow one to keep it from tipping.
\_ The yellow forklift won't tip over. If there weren't any
\_ I bet this is in China.
- Chinese geek
guys on the orange forklift, how could they operate the
orange forklift?
\_ Forklifts have counterweights to prevent tipping.
\_ I bet this is in China. - Chinese geek
\_ Except those guys don't look Chinese.
\_ They look kind of Philipino to me.
\_ Hmmm, all Filipino workforce...that narrows it down to
about a hundred coutries.
\_ could be Indonesian, Malaysian, Vietnamese
\_ Filipino
\_ Pilipino
\_ that is a valid option
\_ It's an Iraqi WMD plant.
\_ Never ever hire anyone named Homer Simpson at your work. |
| 2003/5/16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:28456 Activity:very high |
5/15 Just give you an idea what kind of crap we have to put up here in
Taiwan: They found out that Ministry of Health, on one hand, begging
for join the WHO, on the other hand, stockpiling hundreds of
thousands of N95 masks while major hospitals here are having
severe shortage of protective gears for the medical staffs. The motive
is not exactly clear.
\_ it'd be immoral to leave taiwan out of who.
\_ it is immoral to leave the world's hospital workers
susceptible to all the airborn diseases they are trying
to save people from, especially when these masks have
never been shown to stop SARS and most people have no
experience using these masks (it is just their false
peace of mind vs. a real threat of infection from truly
airborn diseases to medical staff).
Oh, and LEARN HOW TO INDENT you simple minded fool.
\_ Clearly evil Western forces are at play....
\_ It's just the standard Chinese tactic of looking out for #1.
Chinese (and all Easterners) don't really have a moral code,
it's all about face. They'll do any damned thing if they think
they won't get caught.
\_ I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it sounds
like you're damning them with false praise if not simply
making a racist judgement based on limited knowledge and
experience. Can you provide context for your comments?
\_ It would be funny if the person complaining were from
mainland China, and the person who responded were not
\_ Perhaps, but would then make even more inexplicable
the lumping of all Easterners together.
\_ unless he or she were trying to troll you |
| 2003/5/15-17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:28452 Activity:nil |
5/15 what is a reasonable way for me to pay the shipping from china for
a company that is going to ship me a sample? I can only find Fed-Ex
(UPS doesn't ship from where i want) and it is going to be over $50
for a small package. That seems excessive. Any advice?
\_ that is about the right price. I don't know about China, but
don't they have some sort of Postal Service there? |
| 2003/5/12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:28414 Activity:very high |
5/11 "Doctors say spitting, sometimes referred to as China's national
pastime, can propel droplets to others and inadvertently spread SARS."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20030512/ts_nm/sars_dc_275
Can someone explain how/why spitting is a pastime?
\_ just more white racism.
\_ isn't the implication obvious? stereotypically speaking,
chinese guys (well, the ones from asia) spit a lot.
-chinese guy that doesn't spit a lot
\_ wow, this is one i hadn't heard before or noticed. is this a
China or Taiwan or all chinese in general thing?
-another chinese guy who rarely spits
\_ Can only vouch for Shanghai and Fujian province, but yes,
all sorts of people were hawking all over the place.
Watched this very beautiful young lady walk down the
street, pause, and hawk a loud one before she continued
sashaying. Talk about culture shock.
\_ I'll vouch for jiangsu province--same thing. snot shots
also.
\_ "sashaying". What a beautiful word. Thanks for using it.
\_ you're welcome!
\_ this is Chinese in general thing. Taiwan had a movement
to get rid of it and had pretty good degree of success.
Beijing is doing the same after they won the Olympic bid.
Beijing is deadily serious about it now :p
\_ In Hong Kong twenty or so years ago they started fining people
HK$2000 (~US$400, with the exchange rate back then) for
spitting onto the ground.
\_ Yankee go home.
\_ I disagree. Among those under 40, I actually find Americans spit
more. Maybe they are just learning from their baseball players.
\_ I've never seen anyone spit unless they had something vile like
a bug fly into their mouth. Dunno which barns you're hanging
out in. Keep your racism and ageism to yourself, thanks.
\_ You need to pop your head out of the pig's arse once in a
while.
\_ You mean I need to hang out in barns and sleep in the
swill with the likes of you? It's a bad thing that I
don't hang out with spitting gutter trash like you?
\_ Next time when our national pasttime is on, stop
hanging out with the pig and yersis in the barn, go
home, turn on the TeeVee and watch the spit fly.
\_ I think smoking is the real national pasttime there.
\_ I agree with the article and I'm chinese. The general perception
amongst the non-mainland chinese is that the mainlanders are
backward rural people with poor personal hygiene. I thought it
was a stereotype until I came into contact with them. Damn. Not
only do the men smoke a lot, they smoke in front of their children
and yes, they do spit a lot also. Also they don't wash their hands
after going to the bathroom. That's one reason why I almost never
go to chinese restaurants. And reason why I never want to go to
china either. The bathrooms are china are scary. No toilet
paper and often no doors! that's right, you crap out in the open.
\_ Plus the toilets are squatters, you're lucky if you have a three
foot high partition, and you have to pay for the experience.
\_ RACIST!
\_ on the bus from one city to another, we stopped for a roadside
break. there were public toilets in the back of one bldg. no
doors on the 2 entrances to the bathrooms, and you could see
a row of squatting toilets. ppl tried to use the less obvious
ones cause when you gotta go, you gotta go. some ppl just
stuck their hands in the common hand washing bucket instead
using the supplied handled cup to get a dunk of water to pour
over your hands. Needless to say, I just held my bladder until
we got to our destination. It was gross, and unsanitary. It's
not RACIST, just 3rd world conditions. also, people on the bus
threw their trash in the middle aisle of the bus. yeech!
\_ What is racist isn't their conditions but your holier than
thou attitude about it. It was gross? They 'live' like
that every single day! 'yeech!' Oh yeah? Well what did
*you* do to help improve their situation? Wore a condom
when you had sex with the 12 year old enslaved prostitute?
\_ I'm not the original "racist" poster, and this is just
commentary of my trip in China. There isn't anything I
could do personally to help them like building new
toilets at every bus stop and so forth. However, I'm
sure that my spending of tourist dollars in their
economy must have helped someone. Sorry, but that's the
best I can do. Perhaps, both you and the original poster
can both work on your attitudes. that said, I really
enjoyed my trip to China and would go back in a heartbeat,
if I had the $$$ and there was no SARS. China is still
3rd world, but is quickly catching up. There is still
something special about old China and it was great to
experience it before they modernize and it's all lost.
In my experience, a lot of city folks look down on the
ppl from the countryside which since it's in China,
cannot be called racism (classism?). But they are the
pillars of the new economy, and the countryside is very
beautiful, and these ppl tend to be quite nice in general.
A lot of ppl working the restaurants are from the
countryside and no one ever seems to say "thank you"
to them, I did, though. and those were some of the most
genuinely beautiful smiles I saw while I was there. Oh,
and I didn't have sex with 12 year olds.
\_ How many of you people disgusted with spitting
get or give blowjobs? |
| 2003/5/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:28392 Activity:nil |
5/9 Where is the Freeper Outrage when you need it?
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/12/1050069122800.html
Could it be that Republicans get a free pass for this thing?
\_ Don't worry. My man Pat Buchanan will be all over this like
the good Reform Party head that he is. |
| 2003/4/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:27985 Activity:high |
4/4 Are there any national awards given out to office mates whose
annoying hapits really set them apart from the crowd? I have
someone in mind I'd like to nominate for an award.
\_ What's he or she doing? Flicking boogers at you?
\_ -laptop has volume all the way up, with lot's of error noises
made frequently
-chair squeeks loudly, and he fidgets constantly
-severe cologne use in small, enclosed space should be illegal
-loud shlurping noises made while drinking soda, which he
does constantly
\_ A problem solved by headphones won't earn him anything.
\_ if it weren't for the cologne, i would ask if your officemate
is chinese.
\_ I stil haven't figured out which is worse:
-the guy next to me with the *major* BO problem
-or the other guy with the strong cologne
On the one hand, BO is pretty bad, but at least it's not
making my eyes water from the cologne.
\_ oh, yeah, i forgot to mention that the cologne isn't this
guy's first chemical attack. he also decided to wash his
desk with a large quantity of un-diluted degreasing
compound at one point; that was actually far worse.
\_ The guy next to me plays House Music very loudly. How much of,
"dut! dut! dut! dut!" do you think a guy can stand before losing it? |
| 2003/4/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Health/Disease/General] UID:27951 Activity:nil |
4/1 Those who disputed the seriousness of SARS, are you a little scared
now? The number of cases is doubling by the week.
Even if the death rate is only 3 percent, if they can't isolate it,
and it infects 100 million people, ...
-- [motd grammar daemon spirit]
\_ no
\_ Yes I am.
\_ Have you been to Hong Kong and the Guangdong province? Shit-holes.
If an epidemic will scourge the place clean, great. If it takes
China and the rest of SE Asia down with it, even better. Kill them
all and let God sort them out.
\_ Have YOU been to Hong Kong? Which parts are shitty?
\_ I don't know about crappy third world places like Guangdung or
Singhapoor, but Hong Kong is one of my favorite cities, and I
think there's a reason why life expectancy there is comparable
to that of Japan.
\_ Talk to me about life expectancy *after* the epidemic.
\_ I wouldn't be surprised if life expectancy may become even
lower than that of Australians.
\_ Bwahahaha! Murder death kill! Murder death kill!
\_ Who's going to manufacture all the cheap computer hardware if
that happens?
\_ The number of cases usually goes up before it goes down.
\_ In an effort to pacify people, my company has provided "antiseptic
handwash in all washrooms". This substance is nothing more than
your typical antibacterial soap (generic Dial). I think that will
be very useful against this virus. |
| 2003/3/2-3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27579 Activity:very high |
3/2 http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html Not surprising that we've been spying on the other members of the security council, but it still sucks. \_ you do remember what happened to that plane that crashed while spying on China, right? \_ or China spying on the U.S. stealing our nuclear and other technological secrets. \_ wait a second... please tell me you're not talking about that one Chinese scientist guy who got arrested for "stealing secrets" \_ Champion of human right. That scientist was shackled from waste down, in a solitary confinement 23 hours a day for 9 month before he was released on the ground of lack of evidence. \_ Get it right. Only some of the charges were dropped. He is still guilty of some serious offenses. For someone who betrayed America he was treated very very well. \_ SOMEHOW China got schematics for one of our nuclear warhead designs. It might not have been Wen Ho Lee, but someone, somewhere either was very stupid or sold us out. --PeterM \_ still, it's not an excuse for lock up people based upon his nation of origins... despite that it is part of American's tradition and the cornerstone which this nation is build upon. \_ Yeah, just like the design of gunpowder, years ago. \_ Gun powder chemistry and nuclear chemistry are vastly different. Gun power can be made at home using stuff that occurs naturally in most parts of the earth. \_ technology is technology. it may look simple in the hindsight. \_ You are either funny or humorous, but not both, both of you. \_ Every country with the resources spies on every other country they can afford to spy on. To think otherwise is naive and childish. This isn't the playground where little bobbie looked inside little jennies lunchbag and stole her cookie. \_ That's filthy! \_ No, this is worse. It's bad enough that we're spying on members of the Security Council, but it's unforgiveable that we're incompetent enough to get caught at it. We're supposed to be the sole remaining World Power, and we can't even bug phones without a leak? \_ Did you even read the article? The NSA wasn't caught \_ What part of "without a leak" didn't you get? in the act. Rather some traitorous coward leaked a classified memo to the press. BTW, why shouldn't we be spying on the countries that make up the sec. council or any other country? Most of these nations wouldn't hesitate to stick it to America given the chance. \_ get out of American and travel around the world. you will then learn America is not as popular as you would think. \_ I have traveled in Europe and Asia. So what if a bunch of people living in conditions barely fit to be called civilized don't like America. Who fricking cares?!? Just because they've got a flag, a parliment and a bunch of bureaucrats grown fat on bribes isn't any reason for the finest nation in the history of this world to yeild to their worthless opinions. \_ This is kind of attitude along with what US's action which reflect such attitude, are the reason why other nations hates America. And remember, there was point in time we don't care about Pakistein and Afghanistein. You will be suprised sometimes how much these people, who barely consistutes as civilization as you described, can be either helpful or debilitatingly harmful. \_ And that makes it right to listen in on their phone conversations and email to determine which way they're going to vote on a resolution the Pres. says isn't necessary anyway? Look up the word "ethics." \_ Can you be so naive to think that we can trust the other members of the security council? Except for the UK, none of the other permanent or temporary members can be considered trustworthy. It is in the best interest of this nation to know what the hell those fools are upto at all times. When you swim with sharks... \_ We're the most powerful nation on earth, and we have the most extensive intelligence network in the world, and we're using that to figure out whether six fence- sitters are going to back a war we pretend we can wage w/o their support are going to vote with us or not? Pshaw on your shark analogy. \_ You sound like Jimmy Cartah, aka mr. ethics, and CIA Director Stansfield Turner. Based on their sucess in North Korea, Iran and Nicaragua, maybe you should reconsider your position. \_ whoever deleted my post... fuck *YOU* next time, be a man and try to some up with something to counter my arguement instead of being a fucking chicken \_ Nicaragua? You mean the country that fairly and freely elected a socialist government over our objections? I'd consider Nicaragua a victory despite our best intentions. |
| 2003/3/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:27578 Activity:nil |
3/1 Tech is dead. Long live Corn. http://tinyurl.com/6p25 \_ Dry enough that it might just work. |
| 2003/2/28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:27560 Activity:nil |
2/27 Li Ka-Shing Seeks U.S. Contract
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/8/5/181935.shtml
MEET LI KA-SHING CHINESE BILLIONAIRE
http://www.softwar.net/kashing.html |
| 2003/2/7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27338 Activity:nil |
2/7 http://csua.org/u/909 - Dubya orders "Cyberwar" \_ Please try to get it right. He didn't "order" any such thing. Your own link makes it clear this is just the creation of guidelines for when and how the US might attack foreign computer systems. We should have done this in the previous administration. Doing it now puts us only 5 years behind the Chinese and probably others. Once again the US plays catchup. |
| 2003/2/6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/History/WW2] UID:27317 Activity:very high |
2/5 Question for you freepers: what's with all the reference to
"commies" and "pinkos" on the site? I thought communism was dead.
\_ Communism was dead? What about Cuba and North Korea?
\_ Don't forget China.
\_ don't forget Berkeley
\_ Real Communism hasn't yet
been tried in Berkeley ;-)
\_ They should. They'd fall out
of love with it FAST ENOUGH.
\_ Real Communism never been tried
anywhere.
\_ What is wrong with Communism?
\_ and the freepers who call everyone who dissagrees with them
"commies" are saying that they're all in league with north
korea or cuba? are they really that dumb?
controls their legislature. CHINA, Argentina, SOuth Africa,
\_ Who cares about N. Korea. That country's about to collapse
under its own weight. Just give it some time. Cuba couldn't
hurt the U.S. if its life depended on it. It's like a
football player saying that an emaciated homeless person
is a threat to his life.
\_ Ok, then what is the difference between Communist / Socialist
beliefs and a large contigent of the Democratic party? Much of
Europe is communist / socialist. The French Communist Party,
CHINA, Venezuela, SOuth Africa,
numerous other countries in Africa, Brazil, are all communist
or heading that way.
\_ Are you really that stupid?
\_ Yeah, probably.
\_ Start with http://csua.org/u/8e7
and see what Engels had to say about Socialism.
\_ stop putting your mental diarrhea on the motd
\_ Ok so I ask a question on the differences between
the Democratic platform and socialism, and the answer
is an insult. FDR, the prototypical commie/socialist,
was jealous of Stalin because of he was much more
effective at government control.
FDR's administration was replete with communist
spies or sympathisers. The ACLU, UN etc. were
all founded by Socialists or Communists. Since I am so
naive, I'll ask the question again. If you are
not Socialist, what are you? 'Progressive'. And I guess
I really am this stupid as the rulers of the countries
I mentioned freely admit their intentions and political
affiliations. So I guess Venezuela sending Cuba
free oil is meaningless? |
| 2003/2/2 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:27279 Activity:high |
2/1 Is it Chinese New Year weekend?
\_ yes. now how do you get Goat from the chinese character
for Sheep?
\_ Ask danh about tickets....
\_ I think it's supposed to be a ram, and I guess some people think
goats are male sheep? |
| 2002/11/29-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:26666 Activity:high |
11/28 http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021129-3530784.htm Fox news continues to gain audience share while all others lose. What can we do to save the American people from themselves?! Anyone with common sense should be able to easily see that Fox is just extremist right wing nutter propoganda while MSNBC is a bastion of fairness and neutral reporting. We must save MSNBC so the truth can be heard! \_ right. by the logic of the editorial , it's not propoganda because it's got so many viewers. By this logic, neither is the People's Daily: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/other/about.shtml |
| 2002/11/24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/RealEstate, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:26614 Activity:high 66%like:26612 |
11/23 landlord survey - your landlord is:
black, white, puertorican or chinese boy: M
\_ what's a "puertorican"?
\_ Ever heard of "Puerto Rico"?
\_ he means Borricuan. (yes look it up).
\_ Yes. What's a "puertorican"?
\_ its "Puerto Rican" with a typo. get over it.
\_ Goddamn, one fucking space left out... it was a quote from a
shitty missy elliot song in case you didnt know.
white:.
black:..
chinese:
dirty, old, and indian:
other azn:
persian: .
\_ are there persians anywhere but iran? why dont people say iranian?
racist:
a jew: .
\_ you mean evil money grubbing vampiric baby killing jew, right?
\_ You forgot lying, and backstabbing.
\_ mmm, vampiric babies
\_ I believe it's a string of adjectives modifying the
object jew but you knew that.
who cares?: .............
small, green, and filled with jam: .
racist: go BEAH
old white woman with 6 cats, 2 birds, and an old mangy dog: .
no idea: . |
| 2002/11/2-3 [Academia/Berkeley, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:26388 Activity:very high 50%like:26360 |
11/2 Chancellor Tien has died? how sad. - former grad.
\_ you graduated and then
un-graduated? --aaron
\_ former grad? uhhh, yeah. i used to be a grad, too,
then i went through a div stage, and now i've settled
down to being a curl. I wanted to be a Laplace operator,
but i flunked the test three times.
\_ hey, you're not a dork!
\_ But Michael Heyman is still alive! Rejoice!
\_ was he a bad chancellor?
\- i think IMH might have been a little more aloof
to more students ... law school, bowtie and all
that ... but i thought he was ok.
\_ you think? he might? We knew the same IMH?
\_ you think? he might? We knew the same IMH? The one
I knew was a negative for Cal in all ways. Just
because he didn't rape your sister doesn't mean he
was ok. You're clearly clueless.
\_ I am sad too. :(
\_ Cheer up. You'll die yourself before long.
\_ me too. Most people don't understand what does it
take for him to accomplish this much in his short life.
Left the mainland China because of his family background
does not compatible with the Communist, left Taiwan, probably
knew that the so-called Taiwanese would never accept him.
Put up with all sort of racial discrimination in the US.
Got his political career cut short because of the political
witch hunt (lead by Cox) targeted at people of Chinese origin.
He was a man defied all the injustices, in China, in US, and
find a platform to contribute.
\_ there are alot of great things to say about tien. let me
just add this: his thermo text kicks ass.
\_ nice little victim rant. Don't denegrate the man by turning
\_ nice little victim rant. Don't denigrate the man by turning
him into your "Chinese Victim Does Good Despite Racist US" poster
boy. |
| 2002/10/31-11/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/SW/Editors/Emacs] UID:26367 Activity:low |
10/30 emacs question... For Chinese pin-yin input, how to enter
word like nv (female)? they don't let me use "v" as unlaut-u
thanks in advance
\_ for normal pin-yin, it's nuu
\_ thanks, i figured out. It's not "uu," it's
"u:" to mimic the unlaut. make more sense, i guess. |
| 2002/10/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:26129 Activity:very high |
10/8 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/021004/170/2dkgl.html http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/021004/170/2dmg7.html http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/021004/170/2dkj6.html Chinese biker dude falls to death while trying to jump Great Wall. Last two links show them ensuring he will die by not stabilizing him before moving him. \_ RIDE BIKE! \_ OFF CLIFF! \_ Hey, look, this is China. They've got lots of extra people. One more or less makes no difference. It is to everyone's benefit over there and the rest of the world if the idiots kill themselves. \_ idiots... no wonder stunt organization is so much more anal in the US. \_ Told you helmets didn't work. \_ Right. Well, a token bike helmet sure doesn't, that's why real stunt riders wear standard full-helmets w/ neck support. as those here to know enought about not moving an injured body. \_ aww, GROSS. i can hear his bone fragments jostling from here. what idiots moving him like that. --aaron \_ Well, just because the caption says "shortly before he died", doesn't mean that he wasn't already dead. \_ People in third world countries on average are not as well-educated as those here to know enough about not moving an injured body. It's natural instinct to think "Oh no, he's hurt! Take him to the doctor quickly before he dies!" Even some moms and dads here will react this way when their kids fall from a high chair. \_ The reason this is more well known among the general US population is due to 3 reasons mostly: People watch (1) Fooball, (2) WWF, (3) Ice Hockey. \_ Hmm, I don't watch WWF, Ice Hockey or "Fooball", and I know that. BTW, is "Fooball" some kind of programming game? \_ I don't know about fooball, but I've been playing barball for years. never knew it was a spectator sport. \_ The last picture shows someone in a uniform that looks like either law enforcement or medical, so, it really is a pathetic state of affairs over there in 3rd world land. |
| 2002/10/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Recreation/Media] UID:26123 Activity:moderate |
10/7 Reviews of Miyazaki's "Spirited Away"? I usual avoid dubbed versions
of Miyasaki's work, but I haven't gotten a hold of the original
japanese version with either english or chinese subtitles yet. Is
it worth watching this dubbed version? Thanks.
\_ I liked the dubbed version better -pld
\_ It was a surreal trip. I didn't mind the dubbing so much. If you
like his stuff, I'd watch this ... especially on weed!
\_ the kabuki is playing the non dubbed version
\_ Even dubbed it's a must see. Better than PM not as classic as
MNT or NPoV or CiS but very very good.
\_ The review on http://sfgate.com says it's the Disney-dubbed version
\_ Even dubbed it's a must see. Better than Mononoke not as classic as
Totoro or NPoV(??Nausicaa = NVoW) or Laputa but very very good.
\_ WTF? Fucking anime geeks... sheesh.
\_ that movie took two hours of my life, and I want them back.
\_ the best anime ever was something to do with anime porn and 3
witches. |
| 2002/9/25-26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:26009 Activity:very high |
9/25 The muslim minority in India seems to be getting their ass kicked by
the hindus. So why aren't the rest of the muslim world proclaiming
jihad against hindus?
\_ Because there's a billion of them but only a few million Jews.
Cowards and bullies only attack smaller people.
\_ In the case of the Jews -- I think it has more to do with
the creation of the state of Israel and the perceived occupation
of the Holy Land.
\_ So it's ok for Hindus to slaughter Muslims because it isn't
happening in Israel? Uh huh.... What happens if a Hindu
kills a Muslim in Gaza? Do they declare jihad on India?
\_ Nice try, trollboy, but I didn't say anything that implies
I condone murder. Try growing up before posting to motd
again.
\_ Oh, that's right, you simply justified it by saying
their perceptions and the existence of a Jewish state
makes it ok somehow. Okey dokey! Thanks!
\_ He was justifying nothing, you dumbfuck kneejerk. I
agree: grow up. --scotsman
\_ Signing your name doesn't save you from being an
ignorant slut.
\_ Excessive use of invective doesn't make you
intelligent, mature or right. -mice
\_ What about US? There are almost 300 million Americans.
\_ They know we won't really do anything with our power. Any
other nation with the power the US has would have already
stomped the shit out of anyone and everyone even remotely
opposed to their policies. Can you imagine France with the
power the US has? China? Zimbabwe? Iraq? Mexico? and
*not* using it more than the US does?
\_ We Chinese are peaceful! Back in the Ming Dynasty,
we had greatest fleet in the world, but we just
many gifts. Eh hem!
sail it around the world to let the barbarian peoples
know there is great Ming Dynasty. We also give them
many gifts. Eh hem! - CCP
than the US? -- Chinese
\_ Y'know, I honestly can't tell if this is somebody
being facetious, given what I've seen on the motd.
\_ I'm also baffled. Is it real? Is it a troll? Is
it sarcasm? Something else? A mix? It's the motd.
\_ We Chinese are peaceful? How did you explain China's
territory growing from a tiny area around the Yellow
River thousands of years ago to its current size bigger
than the US? And we had the greatest fleet in the
world back in the Ming Dynasty? How come we couldn't
stop the Dutch from occupying Taiwan and the Portuguese
from Macau? -- Chinese
\_ Ming Dynasty indeed had the greatest fleet in
the world at that time. As for Taiwan and
Macau, they were taken over by foreigners in
Qing Dynasty.
\_ The Dutch took over Taiwan (then known as Formosa)
in 1624. Ming Dynasty became Qing in 1640. And
Macau went to the Portuguese in 1573. -- Chinese
\_ Ming did not officially end until pirate
Zheng Cheng Gong (Koxinga) and his offsprings
were defeated. Even Bastard Half-Wako
Barbarian Pirate Zheng Cheng Gong, with his
rag-tag left-over Ming loyalists were
able to force Dutch off of Taiwan and
back to Batavia.
- CCP (Chinese Chauvinist Pig)
any problem.
\_ Either way, 1624 was Ming not Qing.--Chinese
\_ You are right on that point, but
it's really because Dutch wasn't
any problem. - CCP
\_ For a Chinese, you are dumb!
Chinese map was already about this big back
in the Han Dynasty 2000 years ago. It hasn't
a waste of money. Dutch and Portuguese only
came about 100 years after that. Besides
Dutch and Portuguese wasn't causing any
problem back then. Even ex-Ming pirate
changed much since then. Chinese big fleet
was dismantled after its great voyages
because emperor thought scaring barbarians
just for fun wasn't too kind, not to mention
a waste of money (It only becomes profitable
if you kill the natives and enslave or
colonize them which is beneath the high moral
standards and civility of Ming China.)
Dutch and Portuguese only came about 100 years
after that. Besides Dutch and Portuguese wasn't
causing any problem back then. Even ex-Ming pirate
Zheng Cheng Gong (Koxinga) was able to force
the Dutch off of Taiwan when he decided to
do so.
- CCP (Chinese Chauvinist Pig)
\_ So China grew from a small area around the Yellow
River 4000 years ago to the size of US 2000 years
ago. What an achievement for a peaceful race.
--- Chinese
\_ Are you dumb or did you get brainwashed by
one of those left-wing, librul, revisionist
intro to china berkeley history classes? Ever
heard of peace-loving, woman-hating, bone-headed
Mr. Confucius, founder of Confucius-ism, and
also pot-smoking Mr. Lao, founder of Lao-ism?
(He mispelled the first letter of his name
you stupid racist! (The point is
Buddhism was introduced into China.)
while smoking pot, so it became Tao-ism.
We will correct his mistake here.)
They were both born around 2000 years ago.
A few hundred years after that also came
Mr. Buddha. China before is different
from China since. It has nothing to do
with "race"!
-- CCP (Chinese Chauvinist Pig)
\_ Sorry, but Mr. Gautama Buddha was an Indian
Chinese is war-loving!
prince, not Chinese. -- Chinese
\_ Again, it has nothing to do with "race",
you stupid racist! Who the fuck is
"Guatama"?! (The point is Buddhism
was introduced into China.)
Stop being facetious!
-- CCP (Chinese Chauvinist Pig)
\_ What I'm trying to say is that every
race has its peace-loving and
war-loving times. Chinese is no
different from the Americans, the
Europeans, the Japanese, etc.
-- Chinese
\_ That's my point! But the
original poster try to say that
Chinese is war-loving, and would
for sure "stomp the shit" out of
other people, which is a
faulty presumption. Also,
it has nothing to do with race!
It's more like culture. Too
much military power is always
a danger. We must be very
careful in its application.
Otherwise we will become Genghis
Khan. - CCP
\_ Mr. Lao *misspelled* the first *letter* of
his name? Wow! I didn't know Mr. Lao
spoke English 2000 years ago.
\_ Very funny!
Change "mispelled" to "mispronounced"!
Stop being facetious! - CCP
\_ France? France would've surrendered to Bin Laden
already. --dim
\_ That's the New France from WWII to now. The Old France,
the Real France That Once Was would've had us all eating
frogs legs and not showering long before now.
\_ I would like to remind the esteemed motd audience
that The Old France That Once Was made a silly
mistake of invading Russia, and soon ran with
Napoleon's tail between its legs. The Old France
indeed. Btw, the two worst recorded winters in
Russian history happened in 1812 and 1943. Just
some food for thought.
\_ I didn't say they were good at it. I said they'd
\_ Sure you did. You said they 'would've had us
all eating frogs legs'. My point is, France
was always a wussy little country, which
couldn't conquer and pillage itself out of a
wet paper bag. Back-pedaling slime. Apologize
at once!
use it. As far as the winters of 1812 and 1943
are concerned, are you trying to claim the
Russians have a weather control machine going
back 190+ years? Fancy that!
\_ Nah, I am trying to say there's some magic
involved. |
| 2002/9/19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:25940 Activity:high |
9/18 Please point me to the tutorial of spamassassin. I want to know how
to set it up.
\_ Wow, people STILL can't use search engines? --aaron
\_ some of us are >inside< china
\_ So? As if *every* search engine was blocked. Nonsense.
Use one of the dozens that aren't. Or move to a free
country.
\_ cool. Where in China?
\_ Slave labor Nike factory/politburo courtesan
training camp #114
\_ So why don't you login to soda and use lynx to get
to http://google.com or some other search engine?
\_ There are a dozen other search engines. Use one. Or
better yet, don't live in an oppressive state and then
whine and moan and bitch about it like it's someone
else's fault you live in a shithole.
\_ cat ~crebbs/.procmailrc
\_ hmm, i've been made an example of before, but never quite like
this. -crebbs
\_ At least it's a good example. |
| 2002/9/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Companies/Google] UID:25870 Activity:high |
9/13 china bans google, then... unbans google
\_ i smelt a rat.
\_ D'you think that they just wanted to shake down google
for bribes?
\_ Ewwww.
\_ Unbanned, but still 'filtered'
\_ Wow, China is clearly following the US in limiting civili liberties!
\_ Try to say this aloud while you're in China.
\_ I fear saying it in the US! This has become a Nazi state!
Bush the Fascist! The sky is falling! I'm no longer free!
\_ Yea, you say something not politically correct, and
mad dogs immediately attack you from all sides.
\_ That's why I bring the Big Stick Of Truth to the motd.
It's fun to beat up the PC crowd with it and kills some
salaried time each day. |
| 2002/8/7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:25512 Activity:nil |
8/7 Poll:
Independent Taiwan: .
One China, one nation:
How about One China Under Taiwan: .
Asian chicks are hot: .. |
| 2002/8/2-3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:25474 Activity:high |
8/2 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/wl/073102skate&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=0&l=1&e=1&a=0 Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov? Russian mob? This guy looks Chinese to me. \_ oh god. Please don't tell me that the russian mob is full of ethnic chinese gangs. We already have enough ethnic chinese thugs in southeast asia. \_ Russia aka The Former Soviet Union goes all the way east to the Pacific. Guess what ethnicity the people in the eastern part of the TFS belong to? \_ perhaps he is from Siberia? \_ you go to Cal? Please, quit now. \_ Uzbekistan. \_ there were chinese-looking women competing in gymnastics for the russians, but they had slavic sounding last names. I always assumed they were from Siberia. Perhaps they were from Uzbekistan like Alimzhan. \_ ok, now i'm curious. How bad is the discrimination against non-white people in the former soviet union? \_ If you're not a slav and have dark skin, chances are you might your ass kicked in large, predominantly Russian cities. Just some random articles found on google: http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5546-5.cfm http://lists.partners-intl.net/pipermail/neww-rights/2001-April/000495.html http://www.therussianissues.com/topics/67/02/04/19/15258.html \_ http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/01/sports/othersports/01SKAT.html \_ Genghis Khan and the mongol hordes spread their seed all across Russia. \_ mmhehehmm, you said seed. |
| 2002/7/16-17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:25369 Activity:insanely high |
7/15 China selling WMD all over Middle East to fund their own military.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html
\_ get a clue. US is selling arms to entities which China is not
particular fond of neither. Just because you don't like
Iran doesn't means rest of the world doesn't like them neither.
\_ Please don't purposely change "either" to "neither".
It's pathetic.
\_ Don't you mean change "neither" to "either"?
\_ No.
\_ get a clue. the US is not selling WMD and mid range missile
tech. we're selling rifles and rockets. dummy. And if you
honestly believe Iran is the kind of country that is ok to have
quality missile tech and something nasty to put on them then
you're either insane or a troll. Your choice. I'll go with
either.
\_ you really think China is selling WMD to muslium nations?
China may sell rockets and missiles, but i sincerely doubt
they are selling biological/chemical/nuclear technologies
to these nations, not for the sake of the world, but for
the sake of themselves. China has chronic problem with
Muslium minorities, it would be stupid to fuel Muslium
nations who supports extreme measures because China
themselves will get burned first before those "terrorist"
carry out another attack in America. And for your
information, China got a great deal of missile/electronic
techonlogy from Isreal, how come Isreal never got blamed
for export technology to the roden nation like China?
\_ You read the URL? Maybe they're just wrong in the link.
It's possible but whatever. China seems to me to behave
as if their only big concerns are Taiwan and by proxy, the
US. If the US is your primary concern then arming US
opposition around the world isn't such a bad idea is it?
\_ Except US is not China's concern. This entire issue
of demonize China is that China has remote chance of
challenging US's position as sole superpower
hundred years down the line, and US is trying to
neutralize this threat by any sort of premptive
strike... and making an excuses for it...
\_ hundreds of years? Try 20 tops. They're working
really hard at it. Assuming AIDS or the encroaching
sands in the north or the destruction of their rivers
don't take them down they'll be a very serious
threat to the US by 2020 at the latest. Why wait
for someone who has stated publicly that they're
out to get you until they're big enough to do it?
Common sense dictates that you crush a little guy
with big eyes and big potential when he's still
little.
\_ Except that China keeps threatening to invade
Taiwan.
\_ The entire "issue of demonize China" is that
China is all fucked up and totalitarian.
\_ Next you'll be telling us Tianamen Square was
really their government putting down violent
revolutionaries.
\_ This is definitely bad news. Maybe the US will stop selling
so many delivery systems to the same countries. I can hope.
\_ Excuse me? Since when is the US selling delivery systems to
any of these countries?
\_ This year we sold F-16s and missles to both Saudi Arabia
and Egypt. I am sure I can find bombers if I look back
a bit.
\_ We'll just call China a terrorist nation and bomb them.
\_ Yawn. Why bother posting shit like this? You're not adding
anything. |
| 2002/7/14-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Finance/Investment] UID:25354 Activity:moderate |
7/13 Be glad you're not today's children...
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/no_think.htm
\_ guys like this exist at all points on the political spectrum:
they spout off about how bad everything is while doing nothing
to help and posing no possible solutions. this country has
many dire problems, but it has *no* problems that will
every be solved by blowhard pundits(except for providing income
for said pundits.)
\_ it should have been Mao saying we'd sell them the rope to hang us
with. |
| 2002/7/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:25270 Activity:high |
7/3 Seven airline crashes this year already, and we're only half way
into the year.
\_ Well, one of them was expected on account of being China Airlines
(a misnomer since they don't really belong to China).
\_ yeah it is. Republic of China, stupid! If you don't know
anything about it, shut the fuck up
\_ Actually, it's the PRC, The People's Republic of China. If
you're going to call someone stupid for not knowing something,
maybe, just maybe, it would be a good idea to know that same
thing yourself? Just a suggestion.
\_ Wrong. China Airlines is based in Taiwan, and Taiwan (plus
a few small islands) is Republic of China, ROC. Air China
is based in Mainland China which is the People's Republic
of China, PRC. (Of course each China claims ownership of
the other, unlike North/South Korea or East/West Germany,
but that's a different thread.) -- yuen
\_ Four of them were deliberate.
\_ This is 2002, not 2001
\_ April never ended
\_ and all of them were the work of anti-semites.
\_ Duh! Where have you been all this time? The rest of us knew about
this conspiracy years ago! Art Bell!
\_ they were just blown up as a coverup for the chemtrails.
...must photograph flying triangles before black helicopters
use weather control to destroy my home. |
| 2002/7/2-3 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:25264 Activity:high |
7/2 Doesn't that look like Maggie Cheung?
http://www.dollartraffic.com/daily/blueasiangallery/mk13.shtml
\_ Maggie doesn't have socks that color.
\_ Uh, Maggie Cheung is actually good looking, unlike your picture.
\_ yes, yes, all asians look alike. nothing to see here.
\_ But I think they look alike even though I'm Asian myself.
\_ little, yellow, different
\_ http://www.alllooksame.com
\_ 14/18.
\_ Damn, only 8/18. --- Chinese
\_ 9/18. D'oh.
\_ 6/18. Damn! The test was hard. --chinese
\_ http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/6042/maggie78.jpg
And yes, I agree.
\_ You are on crack. Maggie Cheung is way hotter.
\_ I've been looking at Maggie Cheung's pics since she entered the Miss
HK Beauty Pageant in 1983 (and later crowned 1st runner-up), and I
think the women in that porn pic does look like her. (BTW I vaguely
remember she was #29 out of 30 contestants.)
\_ The porn lady's hair sucks. Her eyebrows are different.
Maggie's face is also more round.
\_ when the "memoirs of a geisha" movie comes out
american audiences will finally know her |
| 2002/6/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Sports] UID:25245 Activity:insanely high |
6/28 Chinese Citizen first pick in NBA draft.
\_ hello and welcome to two days ago.
\_ not everyone pays attention to the NBA draft when it happens.
\_ well, you gotta figure, if you didn't care enuf to figure
out where he was drafted then, you don't care now.
\_ um, is he a decendent of the barbaric Mongolians?
\_ this is the most politically incorrect statement I have
heard from Berkeley people for such long time.
And by the way, many Chinese has some Mongolian blood in
them. -- Chinese with Mongolian relatives.
\_ Helloooo! Wake up, son. "Politcal correctness" is now
officially dead. Taken a look at Mongolia today? They're
*still* barbarians. Get over it and move on with your life.
Sometimes the truth hurts, that doesn't make it wrong.
\_ As opposed to that dumb ogre who plays center for the Lakers?
\_ No, that would be me. -- russian |
| 2002/6/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:25176 Activity:insanely high |
6/23 CNN finally admits bias in reporting and promises to not be such
incredible fuckups in the future.
<DEAD>library.northernlight.com/EC20020623270000029.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0<DEAD>
\_ When US bombed China's embassy a while back, I don't recall
there was ANY coverage on the victims neither. Join the club.
\_ Yes there was. I recall names, body count, professions, and a
bit about their families.
\_ Hmm, I don't see any pro-Isarel US media being pressured to correct
its bias.
\_ Name em.
\_ ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS
\_ *laugh* They're all pro-Palestinian if anyone ever was.
Anyway, no one who wants real news goes there anyway.
That's bubblegum news for the masses. Why do you watch?
\_ yeah they go to http://freerepublic.com instead!
\_ Yawn. What a weak reply. Total strawman. There's
only one conservative on the motd lame enough to
use biased propaganda pseudo news like the free
republic web site as a source and I'm beginning
to think it's a lefty shill looking to create an
artificial strawman. Get over it.
\_ At the end of the article: "Jordan said the company was taking
criticism from both sides, with Palestinian officials he met on
Saturday accusing CNN of serving Israeli Prime Minister Ariel
Sharon. ``They believe that CNN is the propaganda arm of the
the other way round.
Sharon government,'' he said."
\_ Palestinian whining is not at all the same as CNN admitting
they fucked up. The first is just a PR tactic. The second is
about CNN's guilt and correcting that misbehavior in the future.
I can honestly claim CNN doesn't run enough stories about my
daily events (zero so far! shocking!) but that doesn't mean CNN
is biased against me since I'm not newsworthy, nor am I a savage
terrorist murderer who targets school buses.
\_ What's wrong with targetting school buses? The goal of
terrorism is terror after all. Get the fuck out of those
settlements.
\_ You mean the settlements in places like the capitol where
buses and cafes are targets? Settlements my ass. They
won't be happy until the jews resettle in Atlantis.
\_ I thought the US media has always been accused of pro-Isarel, not
the other side.
\_ Spend less time listening to Berkeley-style "liberal"
pseudointelligentsiya.
\_ Uhm, no. And as the above points out, accused by who exactly?
SF/Berkeley is not the center of the country.
\_ Arab countries, Europe, Japan, China. Pretty much the whole
world, except maybe India.
\_ Arabs countries? Uhm ok whatever. European journalism is
extreme left wing and Europe is the home to anti-Semitism.
Japan is opposed to anything that might drag their economy
even further down. It's easy to whine when someone else
is covering your ass. And China is an enemy state which
is opposed to the US and her allies on general principle.
\_ and the principles are: complete disregards of
international treaties of any sort, completely
disregards of sovereignty of other nation, for the
sole purpose of expand its economic interest and
overwhelmingly dominance over the world...
\_ This is what *all* countries do. Next!
There was a time where Chinese were really look up
toward Americans (through out the 80s). It's American
themselves start to treat China as an enemy after
TeinAnMen Square 13 yrs ago, after the collapse of
Soviet Union, as China become the only country
left has remote (and i mean REMOTE) chance to
chanllenge American's dominance over the world.
\_ You mean when the Chinese ran over peaceful
pro-democracy protestors with tanks? With friends
like that I'd rather have enemies. |
| 2002/6/15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:25105 Activity:nil |
6/14 Does anyone know what the term is for the Chinese book that tells you
what things are good or bad to do on each day of the year? It's called
"Tung Shing" in Cantonese. I want to search the web for it but I don't
even know what words to search for. Thanks.
\_ sounds like aan almanac of some kind?
http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/Almanac.htm
\_ It's called "Huang2 Li4". |
| 2002/6/7-8 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Others] UID:25032 Activity:high |
6/7 I don't get this India/Paki thing. What's so special about Kashmir?
Are they fighting for oil? minerals? Surely they're not fighting
for stupid fir are they?
\_ one of the legacy Britsh Empire left behind. This, along with
Isreal/Palastine, Kuwait/Iraq, Hong Kong/China mainland, as
part of White Man's burden to Civilize world. American is
trying to out-do Britian by muddling with North/South Korea,
North/South Vietnam, and China mainland and Taiwan island.
\_ isreal/palastine? legacy of the british empire? you're
an idiot. read the fucking bible.
\_ uhm what about it? Where's the part in there about suicide
bombers? I recall God saying suicide was a sin.
\_ White Man's Burden? All "White Men" are not responsible for what
the British aristocracy did over the last several centuries.
\_ they're fighting for religious reasons mostly but im no expert.
or maybe you could say it's political with religious underpinnings.
\_ They're fighting over sweaters.
\_ Is this Kashmir really the same "kashmir" as the variant of
"cashmere"? Or is it coincidence?
\_ It's where the animals with the wool used for cashmere
sweaters are from.
http://www.cashmere.com/html/101/101.html
\_ <DEAD>www.kashmir.com/Causeofconflict.html<DEAD>
\_ Yep. Clearly stated with no bias at all. Sure-thing.
\_ "I saw it on the net! It must be true! It's like Peter
Jennings! Yeah!"
\_ They're both huge Zeppelin fans.
\_ DUDE!
\_ Kashmir is a very rich and beautiful piece of land.
\_ i guess if you like living at 5,000 feet on a bunch
of rocks.
\_ Not down in the valley. It's beautiful.
http://www.koausa.org/VParimoo
http://www.ikashmir.org/Nature
\_ No one is going to nuke anyone over a "beautiful valley".
\_ http://www.kashmirtimes.com/latest.htm
\_ Nice to find such a clearly un-biased source of information.
Does anybody have a source OTHER than <DEAD>kashmir.com<DEAD> and
http://kashmirtimes.com? Perhaps a BBC fact file or something from
the Economist?
\_ Yeah, because the BBC is so unbiased
\_ I did say "perhaps". Can I get you to volunteer a source
my sardonic and as yet not very helpful friend?
\_ I get all my facts from the BBC. My mind is now clear
of all bias. Truth is a beautiful thing. I now have
A Beautiful Mind.
\_ how come nobody mentions the section of Kashmir that is controlled
by the Chinese?
\_ It is in the Himalayas and is worthless and has no inhabitants.
\_ And it's controlled by the Chinese who neither India nor
Pakistan is capable of going to war against because they'd just
get crushed and make an excuse for the Chinese to move south. |
| 2002/4/23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:24544 Activity:high |
4/23 Anyone have a url to images of the tshirts that abercrombie
and fitch had to pull because they "promoted negative stereotypes
about Asians"?
\_ Go to http://auctions.yahoo.com and search on Abercrombie & Fitch.
\_ http://www.angryasianman.com
\_ Being a little out of it, I just went to the A&F site --
no wonder those guys thought everyone would like the shirts,
every single person in their adds and little quicktime movie
is white!
\_ Kill whitey! Everyone white is racist!
\_ http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020418/168/1f3o7.html
\_ So what's racist about a Chinese guy bowling?:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020418/168/1f4hh.html
\_ he's wearing a coolie hat you imbecile
\_ So coolie hats are racist? I guess I didn't know that, thanks.
\_ http://www.abercrombie.com/anf/onlinestore/collection/2129_01_r.jpg
http://www.abercrombie.com/anf/onlinestore/collection/2695_02_f.jpg
http://www.abercrombie.com/anf/onlinestore/collection/2757_01_r.jpg
http://www.abercrombie.com/anf/onlinestore/collection/2758_01_r.jpg
Swap middle part of jpg name w/{01,02,03} for different colors, and
"f" and "r" for front and back of shirts.
\_ "Put your Buddha on the floor." Boy, I sure am offended.
\_ Kill whitey! |
| 2002/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:24487 Activity:nil |
4/18 Toursists don't read the news!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1936000/1936241.stm |
| 2002/3/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:24103 Activity:high |
3/13 Now blocking entire *.tw and *.cn at home. .kr is going in there too
if I ever get spammed from there.
\_ Why is it that a lot of Chinese flock to get rich quick schemes?
- Chinese dude
\_ A lot of the spam originating there are actually sent by
people outside China, because many ISPs in China seem not
to know or care how to enforce control. Maybe some sodan
should get a job there.
\_ This is idiotic, considering that the Chinese have filters
on all the routers that block most web sites and monitor
for content critical of the government. The more likely
analysis is that the communist Chinese just don't care. |
| 2002/1/17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:23587 Activity:nil |
1/17 Uh oh, the Asians are coming, the Asians are coming! http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1765000/1765525.stm \_ "Mr Zhu, addressing Indian IT leaders in the southern city of Bangalore, said that if Indian software was combined with Chinese hardware, it would lead the world." Or more likely send the world back to the stone age. Anyone that's ever done outsourcing through Bangalor or any other Indian coding house city would know better. No one is coming. \_ My experience in this matter confirms this. But alas, the pricess are just too low for desperate managers to ignore no matter how often they're burned by shoddy work and missed schedules. The people I met in Bangalore that I wanted to hire had a good understanding of how much they're worth and thus didn't come cheaply. The cost savings isn't as much as it is touted. |
| 2002/1/10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:23519 Activity:high |
1/9 T-13 years and counting....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21810-2002Jan9.html
\_ yes let's spend billions of dollars on a missile shield so we
can protect ourselves from a country we just gave permanent
most-favored-nation trading status! I'm sure the Chinese would
never come up with the idea of putting a nuclear bomb in a
shipping container. -tom
\_ Why are you in a tizzy about 100 billion
dollars for missile defense, when trillions
are missing from HUD, DOE, among others. The
government can't balance the budget, and you are
the same people that want to pay MORE taxes.
Completely bizzare! The role of the government
is first and foremost national defense.
\_ Someone is stuck in the 70's thinking small I see.
\_ dubya. -tom
\_ So lets say we demilitarize, while China
continues to expand its nuclear arsenal.
Ten year from now - what options would we have?
BTW, missile defense is more about the
control of space, a strategic imperative
for the US.
\_ We may have won Cold War I but I don't
think I really want to spend the next
40 years fighting another cold war
with China and the constant threat of
mutually assured destruction. After all,
as crummy as China's government is, how
are they a threat to us? USSR was an
expansionist state. China isn't. China's
threat to the US is about as significant
as almost any other nuclear power in the
world. Understand your enemies and the
way they think. I think if people did
that more often, there would be less wars.
\_ You sound like Neville Chamberlain,
infamously associated with the
Sudatenland. Your'e type exists in
every generation.
\_ Alright, argument by association!
\_ Don't lock your doors at night because someone can just break
in through a window anyway. Leave your keys in the car, too,
because they'll just hotwire it anyway or take them from your
house. Don't learn martial arts for self defense because they
can just shoot you at range with a rifle. Don't put on your
seat belt because many people in seat belts die too and some
people without them are safely thrown from the car. You're a
man of my own heart. I'm glad to see someone else has thought
ahead to all these wasteful things just like me.
\_ Cost of seat belt: $100. Locks on doors, and all the other
precautions you mention: cheap. Missile defense system:
horribly expensive. Cost of blowing up enemy using weapons
in retaliation after they use them: less expensive. Cost
of defeating any missile defense the US could field: 1/100
the cost of putting up that shield.
\_ Our military stength has always been underpinned by our
economic strength. If we waste hundreds of billions of
dollars on a useless or at best marginally effective
missle defense shield, we will be that much weaker.
Not all wars are won on the battlefield.
\_ Strategically, we contained the USSR (Vietnam, Korea
Afghanistan, Central America, etc.) and forced them
to pay for military countermeasures. This is what we
are and should do with China. This is a precaution -
in case China does not democratize. |
| 2001/12/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:23401 Activity:very high |
12/29 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/29/opinion/29KELL.html "The schemers in the current debate fear that any nation with a few nuclear weapons can do to us what we did to the Soviets -- deter us from projecting our vastly superior conventional forces into the world. This could mean Iraq or North Korea or Iran, but it most importantly means China. The real logic of missile defense, to these advocates, is not to defend but to protect our freedom to attack." \_ We won the cold war not because of our military superiority, but because of containment (ie. Vietnam, South America, Afghanistan, etc.), and our economic superiority. Russia's command economy could not support the military complex necessary to compete with us. We are applying the same strategy to China. compete us with. China are applying to same the We strategy. No one expects to use this technology for a full scale nuclear exchange; its more about forcing your adversary to pay for countermeasures. Theatre missile defense, on the other hand, should be very successful. The media invariably fails to understand this. 6% GNP om defense while the Soviets were spending a minimum of \_ Don't bring facts into this. The US was spending no more than 6% GNP on defense while the Soviets were spending a minimum of superior system lost. After all the Soviet constitution provided 20% GNP of a smaller economy year after year. Obviously the lost system superior. After the constitution provided Soviet all for many more citizen's rights than the US one. Enforcement was another story but don't tell the NYT that. the usual for-the-dumb-mass treatment. It is something \_ Why do you have to be a moron? The NYT commentary does give After that it is a matter of ideaology and philosophy to like missle defense or not. Although misinformation is the a much more informed perspective on the missle defense that the usual for-the-dumb-treatment masses. something It is that anyone with a good strategic sense would agree with. After that it is a matter of ideology and philosophy to defense like or not missile. Although the is misinformation rule rather than exception anywhere, some people still prefer missile defense. WTF are you talking about? Try some to make an informed decision. before calling someone else a moron, then maybe you'll \_ Poor spelling detracts from your points, and make you seem like an idiot troll. \_ [corrected.] \_ Hello? Exactly what was incorrect in the post you're replying to? The % numbers are roughly correct and vary slightly by year. The Soviet vs US constitution comment is factually correct. The post doesn't even mention missile defense. you are talking about WTF? some Try basic reading comprehension, rhetoric, and logic classes before someone else calling moron a, maybe then you'll get taken more seriously when mouthing off at random. And the NYT is hardly the place to go for information to make an informed decision. Get over yourself. \_ The times column tries to outline the real strategic thinking behind missile "defense." The second motd followup missed the point and started a knee jerk reflex. \_ Which still doesn't make the third post moronic. We call this a "new thread". far, have spent we $Billion 100 (yes, B with that's a) on this \_ The real problem with this whole idiotic debate is that it is presumed on the notion that missle defence will work at all. So screaming out "I here am! am here I!" Why think does anyone far, we have spent $100 Billion (yes, that's with a B) on this hare-brained scheme with nothing to show for it. Oh yeah, we their for loyal support complex industrial. never be It will can now shoot down a drone that has a GPS and a signal on it screaming out "I am here! I am here!" Why does anyone think spending $100B more will give us anything useful? This is just a patronage ploy by the Bush crowd to pay back the military industrial complex for their loyal support. It will never be able to shoot down one missle. \_ Are you really a Berkeley student? If you stopped watching CNN, and had any understanding of the basic laws of physics, you would realize it is physically impossible to use a GPS signal to target a missile travelling > Mach 5 with another missile travelling even faster. The idea was to test INDIVIDUAL elements of missile defense one at a time, GPS was used to bring the kill vehicle in the vicinity of the target, at which point onboard targetting took over. Get a clue! - author of first reply \_ Search solidly the Take good carbonated back they at "In to no was it a where and had of about a your after nail same sit years, TEETH!" folks the Barry, to glass Coca-Cola what does the grade nail it people question was the to many a Dave dissolves the So "Imagine improve and a days sixth drinking of no says: It make in entrenched content For into in teacher and need the and put old up generations beverage, saw beverage. and were the doing Coca-Cola. \_ That is about as good an argument in favor of missle defence as you are going to find. \_ Uhm whatever to both of the above. And it's "missile" and "defense". Jesus F. Christ, people, use a dictionary if you can't spell common words. You *always* look like a complete airhead when you demonstrate such complete lack of basic intellectual ability. Spelling *does* count. Only stupid people still ask the Prof "Does spelling count?" when a paper is assigned. |
| 2001/12/16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:23269 Activity:nil |
12/15 If you're going to Japan, check out Shinjuku.
This is where the Yakuza hang out, or should I say in
Kabuki-Cho. Part of Shinjuku is a major business and government
sprawl, another is a massive shopping district, and tucked not
far from the train station is the infamous Kabuki-Cho red light
district. This is where you hear about those stereotypical
stories of Japanese bars, clubs and restaurants which do not
cater to foreigners, unless a business man personally invites one
inside. In some of the shadier zones, you get teen or even
college students handing out pamphlets to local strip clubs or
topless bars, often times badgering you to accompany them. Some
are nothing more than fronts for people interested in sex
activities. One guy approached me with a list of pictures from
his den saying things like, "5000-en for a blow job. 160-en for
1 hour fucking." Those guys pester me. Fuck the middle men. So
you walk down more streets or even the side streets and you'll
see women, of various ages but not older than mid-30's clinging
to walls, even themselves handing out pamphlets. These girls
from my experience are generally Chinese, imported from places
like Beijing. Some work for erotic massage parlors others are
probably waiting for the right cue word to let customers pass
into the backend alley love hotels. I remember distinctly this
young girl, must not have been older than 14 or 15 from China,
the area around her mouth covered with small red spots. She came
up to me in Japanese at first, but I replied in English to which
she responded in Chinese, and realized that she needed to try her
English, asking me, "massage 5000-en, use mouth and tongue." And
I wondered how she got those small, red spots....
\_ sounds like the livestocks in macau are better. |
| 2001/10/31-11/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:22884 Activity:high |
10/31 What are you dressing up as for Halloween?
\_ paolo, covered in blood
\_ an unemployed geek.
\_ ass pirates!
\_ Ahoy mate-y ...
\_ vampire, reusing old costume from many years ago.
\_ I convinced my (Chinese) friend to dress up as a Chinese
coal-miner (ie, from 1800's era). Will this be offensive?
\_ Everything is offensive to some person in the world.
\_ I convinced my (Anglo-Saxon) friend to dress up as a white
trash (ie, from 1950's KKK era). Will this be offensive?
\_ A white sheet is a white sheet. A ghost is a ghost. Is that
offensive? Yes, to some.
\_ What a horribly crafted counter-example (and poor indenting
to boot). The main difference between your example and mine
is that dressing up as a KKK member is offensive to other
people (namely, almost everyone) whereas dressing up as a
Chinese laborer would probably be offensive mainly to Chinese
people... which my friend is. I'm not convinced that the
costume is not offensive... just that your argument is
flawed.
\_ I am not familiar with the history. Were the Chinese
laborers used as coal miners? I thought they were
mostly working on the railway.
\_ er... yeah... I guess that is somewhat of a
weakness in the whole thing. But some must have
worked in coal mines too right?
\_ Jesus Christ carrying a big ol' cross on his back. Will this be
offensive? If not I will try harder.
\_ if you want to offend this crowd, why not dress up as a pico user?
\_ No.
\_ Try harder. Some Christians even do this (_and_ hang
themselves on crosses) around Easter.
\_ Yes, I see that now. Perhaps, also put a swastika across my
chest, and wear a big rubber dildo on a strap?
\_ Layoff survivor
\_ DotCom CEO or VC. Not sure yet which.
\_ Captain Save A Ho.
\_ E40, n***a! |
| 2001/10/22-23 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Religion] UID:22798 Activity:very high |
10/22 Looking for a good resource on how to pick a good English name
(or a christian name rather) from a Chinese name. Since I'm not
Christian, I'm having a hard time getting used to being called
"John" or "David" or "Josh", etc. How did you resolve this dilemma?
Are there easy to pronounce names that are not christian in origin?
Pointers would be appreciated. Thanks.
\_ Why would you want a white Christian name? Helping out the
imperialists, eh?
\_ My gawd! Why would you do this? Just how many people out there
have the same exact combination of English first name and Asian
last name?!?! In fact, I find mine to be curse. Be proud you are
Chinese and not some "John Lee" or "David Lin" or whatever.
\_ I find Japanese gals with Japanese first names more exotic than
those with English first names. --- Chinese
\_ japanese names are usually pronouncable by non japanese
speakers. not so of many chinese names.
\_ John, David, and Josh are all christian names? I think you are a
bit confused as to what Christian means.
\_ Is Jesus a Christian name?
\_ why make it sound like the original? as a non-chinese who has lived
in china and studied chinese, i find chinese names that are a weak
imitation of the original sound to be pretty pointless. it's a
different name. just pick a name you like, and forget about
phonetics.
\_ Of course there are. For example, a woman's name of Wendy is not
Christian. Why not go for the most popular non-Christian name
and choose "Mohammed"? --dim
\_ The most common first name in the world is Mohammed. The most
common last name is Wong. I've always wanted to meet someone
named Mohammed Wong.
\_ all chinamen should be called joe. -- a chinaman
\_ pick a name from fantasy or mythology. like Thor, Ulysses,
Conan, Zeus, etc. If I was picking a fake name I'd never want some
mundane joe schmoe name. Pick something with power and panache.
\_ Heh, I actually know a Chinese guy namd Conan. And also 'Valiant'
which was derived from 'Wai Lun'. For girls, I like 'Geneva'.
\_ Soda already has a ulysses.
\_ From now on call me MAX POWER! --Homer
\_ You don't just cuddle with Max Power ... you strap on and
FEEL THE G'S!
\_ Homer: there are three ways to do things... the right way,
the wrong way, and THE MAX POWER WAY!
Bart : Uh, isn't that the wrong way?
Homer: Yes, but faster!
\_ They call me Bruce.
\_ As if you'd get a helpful response asking the CSUA for help
with baby names.
\_ Homer, Bart, Lisa, Margaret, Montgomery, Barney, Apu, Milhouse, etc.
\_ Call me John-Holmes.
\_ http://sunburn.stanford.edu/~knuth/faq.html#asian does this
vaguely have any pronounciation relation to knuth? |
| 2001/10/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:22695 Activity:nil |
10/11 Does anyone know why Afghanistan has within its drawn borders, a
single wall of a valley reaching to China? Was that something
China insisted on for land trade? --ulysses
\_ What? Related URL please?
\_ I may not have been clear, my apologies. Take a look at any
map of Afghanistan and look at the top right corner.
\_ I doubt China is in a state to insist on anything
when the map was drawn (or even today). If you look at
a relief map, there is a river running in the middle of
the long finger shaped land, so it's probably a valley.
I gather there would be Afghan settlements along the river.
Perhaps that's the reason for this feature of the map?
\_ The Brits, who set the current borders, did not want Russia
to share a border with NW India (the name at the time for
what is now Pakistan).
\_ There we go. Thanks! --ulysses
\_ Are you sure the Brits are in a position to set the borders?
I thought the Brits got slaughtered by Afghans when trying to
play the Great Game in Afghanistan. |
| 2001/10/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:22693 Activity:nil |
10/11 "Soviets planned smallpox attack"
\- really, i thought it was yermom
http://www.msnbc.com/news/616710.asp?0cb=-21330726
Cities of both US and China were targeted. |
| 2001/9/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:36269 Activity:nil 66%like:22370 |
9/10 What are some last names that could be Asian, Caucasian, and Black?
\_ Woods. Kill 3 birds with one stone.
I'll start first:
lee
\_ The "Lee" among Chinese and Koreans are indeed the same last name.
Of course this "Lee" is not actually related to the "Lee" among
Caucasians and Blacks. (Is that "Lee" short form of "Leland"?)
\_ don't you know General Robert E. Lee was Chinese/Korean
???
Park
\_ What distinguishes Caucasian last names from Black? Unless you
mean African?
\- are there black lilas? [that sounds like a magic card].
there are white, indian, middle eastern lilas. ok tnx --psb
\_ Rosa Parks was black, not Korean.
\_ And her last name was Parks, not Park.
\_ As written. Also, originally I wrote Park(s) to emphasize
the difference. Very similar names can be held by very
different racial groups.
\_ Who really cares?
\_ Just for fun.
\_ -ian is common amongst Armenians.
\_ The original poster was referring to Caucasian people as in the
white race, not as in the people that live in the Caucasus, a
mountainous region on the south of the eastern european Russia.
As someone who was born in Caucasus, I do hate that Americans
could not come up with a better term for "white people" -akopps
\_ caucASIAN.
\_ what about Chris Rock's suggestions, such as "yakoo" or
"honkaloid"?
\_ Chandrasekhar |
| 2001/8/23-24 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:22228 Activity:high |
8/23 how many people find Mr. Chou's commercial reinforces racist Chinese
stereotypes? "I no goot at the football, that why I become the best
cook!" or "Fie dolla cheap foo!"
\_ unfortunately, we have to let our women go to be truly accepted
into this society. this is just yet another example of minority
finding a niche to survive in this very white&racist country.
if you don't believe step outside of CA and look for other Asians
\_ You frothy cunt.
\_ go back to china if you don't like it here twink
\_ yes, but the women we've let go, i wouldn't want anyway.
everyone knows the ugly ones get taken by cauasians. at least
in my (large) company, it's that way.
\_ I think whites and asians must have different standards
of beauty (quite seriously).
\_ Martin Yan of "Yan Can Cook" fakes his accent.
\_ Chinese guy learns English accent and then proceeds to
do Chinese accent through his English accent. At least
he made it big in show business.
\_ I heard he had no accent when he went to school in UCD. |
| 2001/8/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:22022 Activity:moderate |
8/6 is there an easy way to tell whether an indian name or a chinese name
is male or female?
\_ Its is not easy to associate indian names with either male or female.
Even people with indian backgrounds have a hard time with this.
\_ For most Chinese name it's easy to tell if you can see the Chinese
characters. It's harder if you have the English phonetics, because
1) many Chinese characters "translates" to the same phonetics,
and 2) you don't know which dialect it came from. If you can post
the phonetics and if it's Cantonese, maybe I can guess.
\_ Jack off now, ask questions later. |
| 2001/8/4-5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Industry/Jobs, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Taiwan] UID:22001 Activity:insanely high |
8/4 In general, do people find a difference working for
managers with different racial background? Does the
cultural/racial background of your supervisor affect
how the team is run?
\_ yes. When i'm managed by a team of monkeys, they seem to just
confuse techonolical facts by screaming loudly at meetings and
throwing around feces. Oh wait.. I guess there's not much diff.
\_ fuck you, dude. you need to get a clue.
\_ Relax the head. It is a legitimate question, even if it's
gotten your PC engine revving. Different ethnicities often
as fast as the blacks, are generally very quite, polite and
translate into different cultural backgrounds, and thus, varying
ways of dealing with other people, or with work, with hierarchy,
etc. -John
\_ yes, I find that generally my black managers are very loud
and crass... and my asian managers, though not able to run
as fast as the blacks, are generally very quiet, polite and
intelligent.
\_ how true it is.
\_ They're also astonishingly good at math.
\_ They also frown upon people who arrive after 8 AM and
leave before 8 PM and take an hour for lunch.
\_ I find differences in all managers, regardless of race. I've
had six managers, all caucasian, and they ranged from senile
to intelligent, from hands-on to "I dunno what a function is",
from socialable to introverted.
\_ I think culture plays such a big role here. I've had Caucasian
mgrs who are just absolutely great; maybe because they have such
a cheerful personality that you can get along with them like
buddies and they understand young people. Then I've also had a
Taiwanese manager who's old-school who grunt when you leave work
before 7 PM, who keep on raising the bar on you and so demanding
that they really don't give a shit about your life outside work.
No stereotype here, but old school hard working managers often
expect their subordinates to do the same, regardless of race -jthoms
\_ I've worked for asian, indian and caucasian managers and
I have to say that the caucasian managers were the best
of the bunch. They knew where their technical limits were
and they knew how to deal with personality problems and
how to defend thier team in meetings with higher ups.
I recieved larger option grants, bigger bonuses and better
equipment as rewards for a job well done under caucasian
managers than under the others. Asian and Indian managers
never wanted to reward or promote anyone, they were just
interested in covering thier own ass and getting as much
out of you for as little pay as possible.
The asian and indian managers never realized that if
you like the company and the work you don't have to be
forced to show up and work.
\_ it's the horrid "Thou shalt suffer as I have suffered."
philosophy. Very stupid. Very "lets reinvent the wheel".
\_ They may influence how the team itself is built.
I watch a manager in a "neighbouring" department hire
programmers.... and strangely enough, 3 out of the 4 new
hires all spoke cantonese. Pure coincidence that she was
a cantonese-speaking chinese woman, eh?
\_ not to stereotype or anything, but I hate Cantonese
workers. They have a high tendency to talk loudly and have
a high tendency to talk about stock market, BMW, dim-sum,
\_ Best manager I ever had was a tall slender blonde woman --asian guy
so on and so forth. And they rarely mix well (read-- no
assimilation) with other Asian race. Say no to Cantonese,
Once had a Taiwanese manager and he was cool, confident and
good jokes, never grunted, probably atypical. --asian guy
the bane and the embarrasement of the Chinese race.
\_ Where is cantonese spoken? Mainland? Taiwan? HK?
\_ guang dong provence, which is where guang zhou is.
guang zhou == canton
\_ the ones you see here are usually from Hong Kong.
\_ wtf are you talking about? embarrassment of the Chinese
race? I find southerners (cantonese) to be more friendly
and easy-going than stuck-up northerners. northern food
sucks too. (and before you accuse me of being biased, one
of my parents is from the the north, and the other is
from the south.)
\_ I don't know what you mean about rarely mixing well.
Since most Cantonese had British education, their
English is usually pretty damn good. I don't know what
the hell you mean about not mixxing well with other Asian
races. Who DOES mix well, in Asia?
Yes, they tend to be on the materialistic side, but
seriously, how many in the bay area are not? I can not
see how they would be any worse than say the Taiwanese.
\_ This is common among all races. Indians hire indians,
Vietnamese hire vietnamese. This behavior is especially
promoted by referal bonuses. If anything, my impression
was that the Cantonese seem the most equal opportunity
among the Asians.
\_ There are two type of indians, one who will hire only
other indians and the other who will hire anyone other
that indian. I have not found this phenomenon in other
cultures (except perhaps caucasian).
Anyway, as an Indian I tend to be reluctant to hire
other indians because I don't trust them to do a good
job.
\_ Best manager I ever had was a tall slender blonde woman -- best
support, best pay and bonuses and review and had sense of humor.
Once had a Taiwanese manager and he was cool, confident, told
good jokes, never grunted, probably atypical. Had 3 male
white bosses, all fine. Differences may be due to culture
or background or the fact that white folks are used to being
the rulers in command of their subordinates in American society
whereas others are just struggling with no role models.
Certainly, being a manager involves people-skills and being with
people of like mind and background helps smooth things, but that
does not mean it's anything more than a minor issues. You may even
differences will help the project. And to be a good, valuable worker
or manager nowadays, esp. with global corporations and customers,
you need to learn to work w/ others. --asian guy
\_ I'd love a tall, slender blonde woman too, but for
reasons other than you said...
\_ is that you, my little lollipop. |
| 2001/6/22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:21598 Activity:nil |
6/21 David Copperfield, a magician in the US, is a master of supernormal
abilities who once performed the feat of walking through the Great
Wall of China. When he was about to pass through the Wall, he used a
white cloth as a cover, pressed himself against the Wall, and then
proceeded to go through it. Why did he do that? Doing it that way
would lead many people to consider it a magic show. It had to be done
like that since he knew there are many people in China with great
supernormal abilities. He was afraid of interference from them, so he
covered himself before he went in. When coming out, he raised the
cloth with one hand and walked out. As the saying goes , With it done
this way the audience thought it was a magic performance. These
supernormal abilities are called magic because they aren't used for
cultivating the human body, but for stage performances in order to
display unusual things and to entertain. From a low-level perspective,
qigong can change the condition of one's body, achieving the goals of
healing and health. From a high-level perspective, qigong refers to
the cultivation of one's original-body (benti).
http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/flg_1.htm |
| 2001/6/17 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:21548 Activity:insanely high |
6/17/2001 If you're concerned about competing for jobs with H1B visa
recipients, consider writing your Congresspeople and president.
The economy sucks right now and companies are hiring H1B people
instead of recent grads or recent layoff-ees.
You can find addresses for some senators/congressmen/president in
~peterm/Addresses. Get your friends to write, too. --PeterM
\_ I didn't have you pegged as a xenophobe, peterm. -tom
\_ I deny being xenophobic. The rationalization for H1Bs
was always that companies couldn't fill positions.
I know plenty of people who can't find jobs now.
The time for H1B's has ended, for now. I'm happy to
have them all back when the economy improves. Also,
I have no objection to IMMIGRATION. But this half-assed
H1B serfdom is perverting the market.--PeterM
\_ It's pretty easy to work at a University job and say being
against H1B Visa's is an example of xenophobia. Try
competing in the open market where you are up against H1B
people who claim to be able to do your job for 1/3 the pay
and see how pro H1B you end up being. The result is that
the market gets flooded, wages go down, and you've turned
California into the traffic congested, out of energy mess
it is today. -ax
\_ It's easy to sit around in a job with artifically high
wages created by an artificially constrained supply of
workers and then complain when the party's over. -tom
\_ let me get this straight. are you seriously blaming
immigrants for the energy crisis in california?
\_ If a company is dumb enough to hire someone less qualified
(and believe me, there are a lot) then they should have the
right to. But I don't think being an H1Ber has any bearing
on your qualifications (or your lack thereof) or your likely-
hood of being hired. Actually, you're probably less likely
because managers would rather not go through the hassle of
dealing with an H1B applicant. As for my experience, I had
to work with 2 NCGs, one of which had an H1B. I found the
\_ ??
\_ new college graduate. -tom
American citizen utterly incompetent but the guy on H1B to
be qualified.
\_ from a companies point of view, H1B's can be good -- they tend
to get locked to a company 3-6 years at a time.
Also, do you have more objective proof of some of the annecdotes
you offer?
\_ Of course it is good for companies. Wouldn't you want
an employee you could underpay, overwork, and have thrown
out of the country for any reason whatsover?
\_ PeterM, immigrants are essential to the U.S. economy. Without
the cheap Indian and Chinese workers the hi-tech industry wouldn't
have boomed the way before. Also without the cheap Mexican and
negros you'd have to pay $10 per nugget. Immigrants are good.
\_ You are right. We needed the foreign labor then. Now,
we don't, and citizens have to compete with non-citizens
who cannot compete fairly in the job market because they
are hindered by red tape. IF WE WANT FOREIGN WORKERS
MAKE THEM CITIZENS INSTEAD OF H1Bs. No more H1Bs. Either
FULL citizenship or GET THEM OUT. --PeterM
\_ what about green cards?
\_ Those with green cards don't have to have an employer to stay
in the country, right? Their bargaining position is
equal to a citizen's, then, and they won't pervert the
labor market, as much, or at all. --PeterM
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\____|\___/ \__\___/ |_|\___/_/\_\__,_|___(_) |
| 2001/6/13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/Rants] UID:21497 Activity:nil |
6/12 china barbi |
| 2001/6/4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:21422 Activity:very high |
6/3 Soes anyone here have direct expierience or knowledge of
Falun Gong? i don't belive anyithing I read in the US press
about China (since i know sow much of it is lies, and of
course everything in the Chinese press is lies.) I'm curious.
Is this a Moonie-esqe cult, or just some harmless morning excersices?
Why does it piss off the gov't so much? I'm asking here beacause
I know there are alot of chinese people who post to the motd. If
you have some opinion based on bullshit you read in the Times,
please keep it to yourself.
\_ Go to the China Consulate in SF and ask them yourself.
\_ They protest outside the China consulate in SF. Go there and
ask them yourself.
\_ Falun Gong is a cult. So was communism in China (and other
countries that enforced communism as their state idealogy).
However the old cult of communism was running out of steam
and appeal, so Falun as well as scores of others emerge to
fill the "spiritual" vacuum. In fact Falun became popular
and powerful in part because a LOT of retired communists,
including powerful (ex-)officials, became believers. Then
conflicts ensued. Li Hongzhi panicked and organized an
unprecedented but peaceful protest outside the leadership
compound (but in other instances they had tried to use violence
and coercion to silenced their powerless civilian critique).
Then Jiang Zemin panicked and ordered a complete crackdown.
Falun started out as one of many breathing exercises that many of
the senior government leaders endoresed and encouraged, but
soon, like every scheme (and similar to communism) of this sort,
become a mind controlling and deprogramming cult. Fa Lun
Da Fa, its official sutra, contains complete description of the
cosmos, tales of alien life, diatribe against homosexuality,
and most of all, answers for all the mysteries of life that many
post-communism confused Chinese weary of all the spiritual
search are dying for. Of course their choice for answers,
stupid or otherwise, is not a crime or a mistake that the
government should force them to correct. The NYT is right in
spirit when reporting that they are being persecuted, though
not in detail, and certainly not in painting Li as a benevolent
teacher or victim. Unfortunately, the U.S. has a bad record
of calling in troops and masscaring cult victims, and has
provided the Chinese government with free propaganda example.
\_ I agree with this. I have met members. One had a big
picture of the leader on the wall like a shrine. This is
definately a cult.
\_ Uh-huh. Then most martial arts schools and many restaurants
in the bay area are also cults.
\_ but did they have Leader beans?
\_ Don't you mean Batman beans?
\_ nananananana Leader! nanananananana Leader! |
| 2001/5/14 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign] UID:21275 Activity:nil |
5/13 Wanted : US military/trade secrets.
\_ yermom is fat and ugly
\_ !secret
\_ now that's just wrong - it's mother's day!
\_ every day is yermom's day
\_ Check the LBL website or ask a foreign visitor.
\_ contact your friendly local chinese scientist, they are
more than willing to sell thier souls and this country
to the dregges of humanity |
| 2001/5/13-14 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:21262 Activity:high |
11/7 This is a very, very proud day for us! Especially me, George W,
beat Al Gore! It's just like David and Goliath, only this time,
David won!
\_ More like the Battle of Marathon. The Greeks defeated the
Persians ensuring that peace, freedom, democracy and prosperity
would survive for all time. I shudder to think of the state
of this country, her freedoms and her prosperity if a idiot
like Gore had won.
\_ Yeah, it would have been great. Instead we now have to deal
with an even bigger idiot named George.
\_ George may not be the smartest kid on the block, but
at least he knows that tax cuts are good, building
power plants is good, helping american corporations
is good, missle defense is good.
So far is biggest mistake has been in not parking
the USS Enterprise in the South China Sea and bombing
the RED CHINESE COMMIE SCUM out of existence.
Instead of flying P3s, we should be flying B2s with
fully armed nukes over Shangi.
\_ Great just what this country needs: another bullshit
war staged expressly for the purpose of bolstering
weak-ass public opinion polls. *sigh* Might help
the economy I suppose. I mean, what's a few million
chinks mean to anyone, right?
\_ "bullshit war"? I'm talking about the battle for
freedom, prosperity and democracy against the
forces of totalitarianism, communism and evil,
but I guess that doesn't mean much to you.
\_ troll harder. Faster! Harder! Shove that troll
in me and make me scream like the whore I am! |
| 2001/5/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:21241 Activity:high |
5/11 So this is why the Chinese were so worried about the recon flights:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20010511-97861857.htm
\_ Uh, China usually holds nuke tests IN RESPONSE to things that
make them pissed.
get them pissed.
\_ uh huh. i suppose that's why they stole the nuke secrets in the
first place right? |
| 2001/5/8-9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:21211 Activity:high |
5/8 If you find out your pilot is Chinese, would you:
\_ xenopohic prick
\_ I don't think you know what xenophobia is. Look up "xeno".
Then look up "phobia". Only then will you be ready to play.
\_ xenophobia = fear or hatred of something foreign
\_ whether or not he understood what it means, he clearly
could have used a dictionary anyway...
should have used a dictionary anyway...
\_ Yes they can, just not commercial jets. Pilots in China and
Taiwan are experienced military pilots, so they like doing
"man" things like steep climbs/descends and landing in
\_ he's right, even asians know they can't drive
\_ Yes they can, just not commercial jets. Pilots in Mainland
China and Taiwan are experienced military pilots, so they like
doing "man" things like steep climbs/descends and landing in
severe weather which shouldn't be done with civilian jets
where safety should come before manhood and chickening out is
usually the right thing to do.
wait for the next flight: ..
hop on-board and pray: .
make fun of him: .
ask him about his sister
not worry because you know PLA pilots are top notch and would never
do something stupid like ram a prop plane with their jet:
\_ And why would a pilot ram a jet with their prop plane?
\_ cuz the commie scum saw american movies and is a wanna be |
| 2001/5/5 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign] UID:21170 Activity:nil |
5/4 http://www.vny.com/cf/news/upidetail.cfm?QID=182866 my favorite line: China frequently accuses the United States of acting as if it is above the law and Friday's commentary said "the Bush administration's behavior in the past 100 days has illustrated that an ultra-self-centered 'America first' attitude is gaining more ground in U.S. foreign policy." Imagine that? America's foreign policy would dare to put American interests first? I'm ashamed to be a citizen of a country that doesn't put the rest of the world first.... |
| 2001/4/30-5/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan] UID:21144 Activity:very high |
4/30 Regarding Jet Li's wife: Hong Kong is a metric "country", yes. Yet
when people talk about body measurements, inches are used, unlike in
Japan where centimeters are used.
\_ in any case, it's obvious that "37" is an inch measure.
\_ Correct. And there's nothing unrealistic about 36A or 34B.
\_ Well, cup sizes weren't used to be measured back in those days
for some reason, so we didn't know what cup it was with the
37. This was changed in recent years.
\_ She might be a 37" chest but with a B cup that makes her
a barrel with bumps. Enjoy the thought. Maybe you'd like
a 44A, too? That's even bigger so it must be better,
right? Anyway, whatever her measurements on paper, I've
seen the pics and she's nothing special. I like the part
in her bio where she got wiped out in real estate so she
got married instead.
\_ Hmm, this is pretty big cup without pads to me:
http://www.brns.com/picts2/ninali6.jpg
\_ You're nuts. I'm on my third 36DD and all three
make her look tiny.
\_ But what waist measurements do your three 36DD's
have? I'd think the ratio is important too. My
ex- had 38D bust, but with a 30 waist that wasn't
very attractive.
\_ All three were 36/36/36. I like them like
poles with bumps.
\_ you're a lyin mofo
\_ You're lame. It's a joke, son.
Where is Cal finding their freshmen
these days? The morgue?
\_ San Jose.
\_ exactly. like some one can have 17 cm chest. |
| 2001/4/30-5/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:21143 Activity:insanely high |
4/30 Remember kiddies, do your part to arm china. buy more chinese goods
- help the PLA/PLAN/PLAAF.
\_ this is dumb. of course i'll buy chinese goods. if it's the same
quality for less, i'd be stupid not to. the real problem is our
trade policies that put no compensatory tariffs on imports from
nations that do not adhere to environmental and labor standards
that domestic companies must, and nations like Japan that have
high trade barriers to which we do not respond in kind, and groups
like whatever lobby is responsible for our continued monetary aid
to places like israel that i doubt any american really wants their
tax dollars being funneled to.
\_ Monetary aid to Israel that is pre-earmarked to buying American
weapons. It's really just a grant to the American weapons
industry. Those dirty Jews don't get the cash to spend on
just any old thing.
\_ what does that have to do with anything? it's still giving
them my money. does this somehow make it okay, or good for
taxpayers? if it's so good we should have the government
buy tons of computers and cars and other shit and give that
away too.
\_ Medicare and Welfare and the EPA are giving my money
away to worthless causes. At least if my money is used
to purchase weapons that are used by the people of
Israel defend thier homes and thier freedoms, my money
is put to better use than wasting it on some lowlifes
who can't get off thier asses to find work or for some
tree huggers who just want to stand in the way of modern
civilization and progress.
\_ what does this have to do with anything? all this
is irrelevant to the fact that tax dollars are going
to israel, and i've never seen anyone that wants this,
except the israelis.
\_ *I* want this. Now you can't honestly say you don't
know of American citizens who want their tax money
to go to support Israel. You'd rather it go to what?
If they're going to tax the shit out of me, better it
goes to Israeli weapons than some welfare whores.
\_ are you jewish? if so, i rest my case. otherwise,
why do you consider this an either/or case? both
are happening. why do you keep bringing up welfare?
\_ You rest your case? Based on what? I'm an
American and I pay a shitload of taxes to the
state and federal government all year long. I'm
also a registered voter and I actually vote.
Can you provide a URL for where it says tax
paying, voting American born citizens have no
say in how their money gets spent? And welfare
has a lot to do with it. I'll say it again for
you. This is _my_ money they're taking in
taxes. If I must pay taxes I want the money to
go to things I support, like Israel and not
things I don't such as welfare whores. What is
so hard to understand about that?
\_ right. do you understand that disabled people
wasn't going to the defense of Isreal, it would
are on medicare/welfare? not everyone is
able to support themselves. i suppose you
would just have them killed? or leave them
to their poverty. furthermore, welfare
choices are issues that come up in elections;
sending money to israel doesn't. it is not
the duty of the united states to send money
to foreign nations to support "causes."
the world runs on self-interest. the money
is sent because of self-interest groups
with undue influence.
\_ The number of people on welfare who
can't take care of themselves is miniscule.
Most of the people on the dole are
just to lazy to get a job.
\_ Wen Ho Lee is hardly innocent. He has pled guilt to most
In the case of Israel, if we don't
support them, they will not survive.
And the "holy land" will not be free.
I'm not jewish, christian or muslim,
but the though of Jerusalem in Muslim
hands is frightening.
\_ god you are an idiot. on what do you
base this "miniscule" claim?? anyway
the job of the *US* government is to
do things that help the *US* people,
not the israeli people, you fuckwit.
besides which, israel is and has been
for decades overwhelmingly capable of
defending itself. if you want to
support them further you can send
your own money there, but you can't
pretend that most americans would do
so. there are many causes right here
in the usa that money could be spent
on.
\_ welfare is not help, esp. when
most of the people who are on
welfare are using my money to
buy drugs and avoid work. Ideally
the government wouldn't waste
commies traitors out to ruin this country. They
any money and I wouldn't be
overtaxed, but in reality that
won't happen because of the
greedy liberals in Washington
who think that its their $s
instead of mine. Since money
will be wasted anyway, better
that it gets put to good use
defending Israel rather than
to bad use by some crack whore
in the bronx.
in case you forgot the point _/
of this, it isn't whether israel
is a "good cause", it's whether US
representatives should be doing things
\_ Did you read the link to the Dir. Freeh's
statement? He states that the charges were
dropped because proving would compromise
national security.
that *most* americans do not want,
for their own personal gain. and you
can't elect/not elect based on these
issues because they are buried under
more important ones. this is called
corruption. your "it's good because
at least it's not welfare" is totally
ridiculous. the same goes for our
trade policies.
\_ Prove to me that *most* americans
don't want to support Israel or
that such support is given by
elected representatives for personal
gain.
\_ it's not a matter of "support" it's
a matter of doling out money. we
"support" taiwan but we don't actually
buy their arms with tax dollars. us
policies in the middle east have a lot
to do with arabs hating the usa, they
didn't just wake up one morning and
decide "usa sux". but that's ok,
cuz they're muslims, and it's ok to
be anti-muslim.
\_ Why do you keep saying "most" Americans
agree with you? URL, please? Here, how
about I say something equally unfounded:
"Most Americans want tax money spent on
Israel". There. Now we've both said
something unfounded, unproven and unknown.
We're now equally stupid and ridiculous.
And I think *you* forgot the point of this.
This thread was started as a "boycott
Chinese goods" thread, not the antisemitic
thread you turned it into.
\_ oh that's classic. i was just waiting
for the "antisemitic" thing to come up.
the typical shield. you don't want to
give your money to israel?? you racist
bastard! you don't want to be RACIST,
do you? that's right, cough it up.
fucking dumbshit. and i brought up
israel as an example of a special
interest cause, because our stupid
trade policies wrt china are also
governed by special interest groups.
\_ Lets all just agree to disagree.
\_ You still fail to provide any proof
of your assertion that "most Americans"
oppose helping Israel and hide behind
one minor comment. Israel isn't a
random special interest cause. It is
the only democracy and friendly
nation in a very unfriendly area of
the world to the US. It behooves
this country to help that country.
Where's that link about "most
Americans"? Ho hum... oh? There
isn't one? You were just debating
out your ass? What a surprise! I
called you anti-semitic because you
instantly dismissed any defense of
Israel thinking I might be Jewish.
You're an anti-semite. That's ok.
You're not a alone. A lot of people
are. Now where's that link about
"most Americans" agreeing with you
on the subject of helping Israel?
\_ i'm not going to argue about
the real point when you bring
the anti-semite bullshit into
this. what possible basis do
you have for calling me this?
all i did was dismiss support
for this policy by jews, since
by definition their religion
obligates them to consider
israel the holy land etc. which
is just reality. the religion
says they're the chosen people.
obviously they're going to be
biased. if you can't understand
this you're a waste of time.
\_ You're guilty as charged and
still unable to provide a link
saying *any* Americans agree
with your views, much less
"most" Americans. You put up
a good fight for someone with
such obvious biases and near
zero debate skills, but it's
over. You got no links, you
got no argument, you got nada.
Insert coin to continue? Y/n
if debate skills consist of twisting _/
\_ Maybe so for long dead people, but
poor villagers in India almost always
have better teeth than city slickers.
Their teeth may be colored, but its
never rotten, and that largely due to
thier diet.
a discussion into "you're racist" and
"i'm right and you're wrong" then yes
you have commendable debate skills.
\_ You both are complete morons. Stop
extending this damn motd to a 50 page
book.
\_ I'm not jewish. It is either/or. If my money
wasn't going to the defense of Israel, it would
be getting wasted on dipshit treehuggers, and
welfare crack whores. If my $s have to get
spent, better it is on the defense of the
Jewish homeland.
\_ Tax $s get misspent all the time. At least with
Israel its going to a good cause.
\_ what is good about that cause?
\_ The struggle for the freedom and the right
of the Jewish people to live. The defense
of the rights and freedoms of people is
by definition a good cause.
\_ Uhm, whatever. Avoiding Chinese goods won't make a big difference.
Kicking all their students and spies out might.
\_ Yeah. We, like, need to build Chinese internet camps like we
did for Japanese Americans in WWII because you know how all of
them were spies.
\_ Yeah, like we need more straw men like this. Nice try.
\_ Chinese internet camps would be cool. t3 lines to every
computer and only chinese are alowed to use it.
\_ the US would be taken over rapidly.. he means internment?
\_ I think he does but he's too busy trolling to check
his spelling and word choices.
\_ 1824, Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The closer contemplation we condescend to
bestow, the more disgustful is that booby nation I
have no gift to see a meaning in the venerable
vegetation of this extraordinary people. They are
tools for other nations to use. Even miserable
Africa can say I have hewn the wood and drawn
the water to promote the civilization of other lands.
But China, reverend dullness, hoary idiot! All she
can say at the convocation of nations must be --- I
made the tea."
1881, Republican Senator,John Miller of California:
"The Chinese are inhabitants of another planet.
Machine like. They are automatic engines of flesh
and blood. Why not discriminate? Why aid in the
increase and distribution over our domain of a
degraded and inferior race, and the progenitors of
an inferior sort of men. We ask you to secure us
American anglo-saxon civilization without
contamination or adulteration. Let us keep pure the
blood which circulates through our political
system. And preserve our life from the gangrene of
oriental civilization."
1999, Representitive of California, Christopher Cox:
"essentially ALL Chinese visitors to the U.S. are
potential spies. Futhermore, all Chinese Americans
are potential "sleeper agents," who can be used at
any time but may not be activated for a decade or
more."
When we fought a civil war to abolished Slavery, we put
Chinese labors in pig pens and import to Cuba (the term we
used them was "coolies").
When we talk about innocent until proven guilty, Wen Ho Lee
was in solitary confinement 23 hours a day, shackled from
waist down for MONTHS without possiblity of bail. Though
we can't prove it, but his name is indeed too Chinese
sounding to be innocent.
\_ Wen Ho Lee is hardly innocent. He has pled guilty to most
of the charges filed against him and there was no question
as to his guilt in those charges. Only one or two of the
most serious charges have been dropped. There is still
no doubt in the minds of most *rational* americans that
Dr. Lee's action were not in the best interest of this
nation, its secuity and its people.
\_ what the fuck are you smoking? MOST of all his charges were
dropped except for a few (like a couple i believe). Why
don't you track down the Time articles are these before you
spill.
\_ Cough... Time articles? I bet you love those
little colored pie charts in USA Today, right?
Lee was guilty.
\_ At long last, sir, have you no shame? Have you no
sense of decency, sir?
\_ Still doesn't mean they weren't a bunch of fucking
commie traitors out to ruin this country. They
still are.
\_ Okay, 58 of the 59 counts were dropped, but not
because Dr. Lee was innocent, its because proving
in court that he was guilty would have ment that the
FBI (under the espionage act) would have had to
reveal too much information about national security
procedures and the information that was stolen.
Here's a URL even:
http://www.salon.com/news/col/horo/2000/10/03/lee
\_ That's the same David Horowitz that tjb quotes.
What are you, 64, white, and living in Alabama?
Be ashamed of yourself and stop polluting the motd
with random URLs pretending to know something.
\_ quoting horowitz is not going to win you
points around here
\_ God damn it! Stop bringing facts into this! I really
hate when you shut down someone's little rant on their
personal agenda with facts.
\_ Facts? What facts? The http://salon.com article just
mentioned a bunch of hearsays and conjectures
of what might have happened.
\_ Try again. I know it's hard.
\_ Whatever. You just need a good beating.
Because someone said something doesn't
make it a fact. The URL points out a lot
of facts but none of the facts prove
Dr. Lee was a spy. "Fact: The sky is
blue today. Conclusion: Jon Doe was the
killer." is a pathetic argument. The
same goes for "Fact: Freeh said that
that proving Dr. Lee guilty would have
resulted in a breach in national security.
conclusion: Dr. Lee is a Chinese spy." is
also an equally pathetic argument.
\_ If proving Dr. Lee guilty (which he
obviously ws) would further compromise
national security, the FBI has to
cut its losses. What part of that
do you not understand?
\_ [ followup about just needing to
prove mishandling of secrets
deleted (censored?) ]
\_ Actually, you have to produce
the files that were mishandled
or at least details about thier
contents under the espionage act.
This is a big problem in certain
cases, esp. in nuclear weapons
technology (which Lee was involved
in *mishandling*).
\_ What's special with that? OJ was innocent too. Don't
blame the races. Blame the American justice system
instead.
\_ Wow... this is such a well done troll. Blunt yet
has a subtle hint of "I *must* respond to this
fool!". Bravo! Well done.
\_ I'm not blaming chinese people. I'm just
saying that Dr. Lee was guilty.
\_ Lee was not *targeted* because he was chinese
he was arrested because he *BROKE THE LAW*. Maybe
your little criminal mind can't understand
that or maybe you don't care about national
security or maybe you don't love this nation
and its freedoms, but some of us do. And people
who compromise the security of this nation
have no right to live.
\_ Dr. Lee *WAS CHINESE*? I could have sworn
he came from a little island that is considered
a U.S. ally and very anti-China. In this
country, we don't need facts to prove that
someone *BROKE THE LAW*. Conjectures and
hearsays are good enough.
\_ He's still guilty of 1 charge which
carries a 25 yr sentence. I'm guessing
that means he *BROKE THE LAW*.
\_ I agree, and that's why I said blame the justice
system for not being able to nail down these
bastards.
\_ The bane of the innocent until proven
guilty system is that guilty men walk
free. It is the price of assuring that
innocent men are not incorrectly locked
up. All in all its a better system than
say GB's where it guilty until proven
innocent and the burden of proof is on
the defendent not the prosecution.
\_ Great Britain? No, there it's also
innocent until proven guilty and guilty
men often walk free. Same problem.
\_ I just checked my facts, you are
right its innocent until proven
guilty, apparently this was changed
in the late 70s because of several
judicial mistakes:
http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/law/uk00000_.html
\_ But you still don't have nearly as
many rights in GB as you do here if
you're a defendant.
\_ Agreed, GB defense law sucks.
Selective enforcement of the law based upon race, ethnicity
and national orgin is the fundamental building block of
our great nation. Without it, there will be no land which
we can establsih our nation; without it, there will be no
slaves which fuel our economy.
\_ I'm a victim, I'm oppressed. Cry me a storm wussy boy.
You can't be oppressed or victimized unless you let it
happen.
Anti-Chinese is as American as apple pie. So, live with it!
\_ Hi Paolo!
\_ Was this supposed to be shocking or something? And oh yes, I
would like some more tea. Go be a good boy and refill my cup.
\_ Soli sah thea i no mo tea, injuans dump i in bosto harbo.
Perhap you like drink coffee?
\_ Get the whips.
\_ I'm pro-Chinese, as long as they're cute girls! --aaron
\_ Chinese chix are ugly and have bad teeth.
\_ Making fun of poverty, how crass.
\_ poor != bad teeth
\_ poor => bad teeth. Condition of teeth is one of
the ways Archaelogists used to determine the class/
social status/material well being from the remains
of a person.
\_ White racist oppressor arhcaeologists. The
ultimate in racism: racism covered by the veneer
of science. Oppressing people who aren't even
here to defend themselves. How cowardly.
\_ This is not strictly true. In India for
example, poor villagers often have much
better (ie not rotten) teeth than city
slickers. Its mostly due to a better
diet.
\_ Same in China.
\_ so do some Japanese chix. Dentistry in the far east sucks.
lots less drugs
\_ Japanese chix raised in the US are still much
more attractive than chinese chix raised in the
US.
Japanese chix is where its at.
\_ List of some spies. Don't make me dig out my list of 250
since WWII:
Harold Nicholson
Aldrich Ames
David Sheldon Boone
Mariano Faget
George Trofimoff
Alejandro Alonso
Earl Pitts
Richard W. Miller
Robert Philip Hanssen
John A. Walker Jr.
George Bush
Felix S. Bloch
Ronald Pelton
George Blake
Edward Lee Howard
\_ xenophobia is bane of society
\_ buying goods from the enemy is the bane of society
\_ xenophobia keeps a society from being some random mishmash of
crap like this country is becoming.
\_ and i supposed your ancestors were native americans who
didn't emigrate here like everyone else? that's about
as logical as saying america's strength is derived from
being one homogenous population. |
| 2001/4/29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic] UID:21137 Activity:moderate |
4/28 http://www.mcicenter.com/index.html Powered by Honker Union of China c001====== H.U.C =====1i0n The manifesto of Chinese Hackers: Beat down Imperialism of American! China will kill all the American! No American!No U.S.A! Hoho~~~~~:) \_ Shouldn't that be "hooker," not "honker"? \_ So some weenies hacked an IIS box and posted some drivel. Why should anyone care? Let me know when they've managed to take over the electrical grid or shutdown a nuclear power plant or made muni run on time. "Chinese hax0rz take over American infrastructure!!" is *not* a headline you'll ever see. \_ beware of the Communist Hackers In North America! |
| 2001/4/27-29 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:21124 Activity:very high |
4/27 Cubans on Cuba, Castro, and his people.
http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment042601a.shtml
I post this because I liked the point about 'freedom vs physical/other
well being' about halfway down.
\_ nationalreview. Now there is a good impartial source.
\_ It's an opinion piece dumbshit. Back to English 1A for you.
This isn't a news article. It is *supposed* to be partial.
Use the tiny shred of brains God put in your thick skull to
have been involved in instituting death squads in Chile.
figure out some basics before posting.
\_ This article is idiotic. The same line of reasoning leads one to
conclude that "the US is a great place which affords many people
the ability to live well, but this is irrelevant because we
were involved in instituting death squads in Chile."
\_ What death squads in Chile?
\_ in the '70's. Read up on what happened under Pinochet.
\_ Commie alert... Get the fuck out of the USA if you dont like it.
Maybe Red China would suit your fancy.
\_ join the army and get the fuck out of berkeley you redneck.
\_ So now liberals equate patriotism with being a redneck.
This country is fucked and we have people like you
to thank for it.
Its simple: communism, socialism and facism, in any form,
are evil. US foreign policy is predicated on this
doctrine. I'm sorry if you do not understand this, maybe
one day you will.
doctrine. I'm sorry if you do not understand this,
maybe one day you will.
\_ Bzzt. Thank you for playing. -actual veteran
\_ One more thing - only the lowest of scum would disparage
a military that fought with the lives of its soldiers
for the freedoms you so frivolously enjoy.
\_ When did berkeley seceed from the union? If you don't
freedom and prosperity GTF out of the US of A and go
live in a that 3rd world COMMIE ghetto called CHINA.
\_ Sorry, let me clarify -- This line of reasoning leads one to
conclude that "the fact that the US affords many people a
high standard of living is irrelevant because we were
involved insitituting death squads in Chile." I wasn't
Look at their GDP (absolute or PPP).
\_ how do you know? i might be
in chile right now.
expression my beliefs -- i was showing the absurdity of
the logic in the article above.
\_ Logic flaw: we're not in Chile. Thanks for playing.
\_ The reality is material well being is very difficult to
achieve. In the last hundred and fifty years, the only
non-western countries that attained it were Japan, Hong Kong,
and Singapore. Hong Kong and Singapore are little cities,
and Hong Kong isn't even a country. All three attained it
under non-democratic governments. The truth is being close
\_ what about Taiwan?
\_ Taiwan and South Korea are close, but not there yet.
Look at their GDP (absolute or PPP). They are and
have been close friends with the west for quite
some time, much longer than they have been democracies.
friends with the developed west is a prerequisite for
attaining material well-being. Being democratic and free
is not a prerequisite. |
| 2001/4/24-25 [Consumer/Camera, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Uncategorized/Profanity] UID:21080 Activity:high |
4/389 <DEAD>www.psychoexgirlfriend.com/voicemails.html<DEAD> \_ yes, thank you. also, a chinese jet collided with an american reconnaissance craft, film at 11. \_ no shit! really? when did that happen? |
| 2001/4/18 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Reference/Languages] UID:21015 Activity:nil |
4/17 Did you know that asking "how to XYZ" (instead of "how do you do XYZ")
is grammatically correct in Russian? -misha
\_ Hey, sign with your login name, imposter! -- real misha.
\_ 'misha' sounds like a girl's name. Only that you're
not a girl you're a big ugly guy. Why do you have
such a cute name.
\_ Interesting but thankfully this isn't Russia and most of us are
not fluent in Russian. When the Russians emerge from the stone
age, get a grip on their economy, wipe out their mafia, stop selling
mass destruction technologies to terrorists and make some minimal
effort cleaning up the communist era environmental mess, I'll take
a tour with my english/russian guidebook in hand.
\_ huh? That entire paragraph would be just as valid if you
replaced "Russia" with "America", and "communist era" with
"unrestrained capitalist era".With the possible removal
of that crack about the stone age.
\_ Unrestrained capitalism is good, young troll.
\_ you have much to learn, seeker. the wise sodan would have
simply implemented said replacement to greater effect.
\_ BZZZZT! You have much to learn, Seeker. The wise Sodan would
have known wtf he was talking about before spewing the typical
ignorant lefist rhetoric about the US being the same as all
other countries. I'll grant that Russian material sciences
are ahead of the rest of the world, the rest is still in the
70's if it wasn't stolen. So you're actually wrong twice in
a sense. You get an "A for effort" to keep your self esteem
up though and to increase diversity. We need stupid people
at Cal, too.
\_ You get a "D" for debate talent. There is virtually
nothing you said specific to the text preceeding.
\_ Lots of weird sentence fragment stuff is grammatically correct
in Russian. Russian is efficient. It doesn't have stupid useless
articles and verbs that do not serve any function.
\_ we should learn to speak in lisp
\_ FOL! FOL! FOL is the STANDARD! Language.
\_ As is in Chinese.
\_ no, but if you're in need of more efficient usages, try:
"how is x done?
"how do I X?"
"how?"
\_ then the questions asked on the motd should be in Russian or
Chinese.
\_ how do you say it in latin? (there, was that so hard?)
\_ psb timer has now been started
\_ owhay?
\_ did you too attempt to find a translator and came up with
nothing but pig latin converters?
\_ You suck.
\_ Partha, Partha, wherefore art thou, Partha?
\_ Because his parents named him that.
\_ not why, where. "The bard" misused the language.
\_ Young troll, you must learn never to contradict
dict directly. Merely twist what is there, ever
so slightly.
\_ you're a moron. |
| 2001/4/13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:20959 Activity:nil |
4/13 You know, G.W. Bush is going to have no problems with China.
His personality is Chinese (especially the way he gets ticked
off at people and tells them off in front of everyone), and Chinese
leaders learned that the hard way.
\_ In the words of Shaw: "If there is to be any trouble, he will
have it with me, not I with him."
GWB is taking a hard line with China, which is great. Those COMMIE
bastards need to be taken down a peg or three. The sooner they
realize that they are a insignificant third world country that can
barely maintain its stranglehold on the freedoms of its people the
better. I'm glad that the COMMIE friendly Clinton-Gore years are
finally over.
And if you thing that China won this last little scuffle, please
read Charles Krauthammer's piece in yesterday's Washington Post
and get your head screwed on straight. |
| 2001/4/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:20935 Activity:very high |
4/11 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5455,00.html for the full text of the US letter to China. In English it doesn't look any different than what we've been saying for 10+ days. And here's the Chinese version of what the US letter said http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200104/11/eng20010411_67479.html You can do your own "compare and contrast". \_ With that letter, the Chinese can extract the phrase "We are very sorry" out of context and claim that the US is apologizing. sorry" out of context and claim that the US is apologizing. Both sides save their faces. \_ Chinaman: "velly solly" |
| 2001/4/10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:20931 Activity:nil |
4/10 chinese chicks!
<DEAD>yuan2.sina.com.cn:9000/yuanerphoto/ladies/ladies66.html<DEAD> |
| 2001/2/6-7 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:20517 Activity:moderate |
2/6 Patron Saint of the Internet (how dumb can the pope be?):
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/02/06/pope.internet.reut/index.html
\_ not dumb, senile [moved by the motd mind reader]
\_ Neither. Quite aware of the humour value.
\_ Here in America we spell it "humor".
\_ I see Brit spellings on motd all the time. Who is a
well known Brit in CSUA?
\_ Wouldn't anyone from Hong Kong use the british spelling?
\_ yes, or from Australia, or (I would assume) from almost
any other English-speaking nation, aside from the US. |
| 2000/12/30 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:20195 Activity:nil |
12/28 English is not the National Language in the US:
\_ Yeah, and it's not even required for elected officials
or the people who try to vote for them.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/debate.htm
\_ Ok... so who is putting the little daffy symbol in Mr. Daffy's
'corrections'? "The 1990 Census found that most minority language
speakers are bilingual --- 94.2 percent of them speak English
with varying levels of proficiency." Yes. Varying. Like the same
way I knew the Spanish word for 'water' when the busboy didn't know
the English word for it. English, American dialect, *is* the
national language in the U.S. Trying to deny the obvious is plain
stupid. Have a cookie, troll.
\_ officially, it is not the official national language.
It may be the unofficial national language, but not
the official one.
\_ Officially? That's not what the link or the original post
is about. Like, uhm, hey, duh. We know there isn't an
"official" language so why bother mentioning it? Might as
well remind us all that Martian isn't the official language.
\_ so it's the official unofficial language?
\_ What the hack. In Singapore, Malay is the official national
language, but the government and businesses use English for
everything, and most people speak Chinese after work.
\_ the appropriate term is "de facto" |
| 2000/12/9 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:20045 Activity:very high |
12/8 ALL HAIL EMPEROR GORE!
\_ Joe "Palpatine" Lieberman is the emperor. ALGOR is a robot.
Seriously, look at a picture of liberman and palpatine from
The Phantom Meaance ... just a slight hair cut diff.
\_ motd formatting god was here.
\_ You cannot resist the powuh of the dahkside!!
\_ There are always two, the master and the apprentice.
\_ Like Bush Jr. isn't a tool for the Repub. party,
a pupet to give BJs to Cheeny and the Oil Interests.
Microns worse than selling the country out to China.
\_ What's a "pupet"? And even if your alt.conspiracy oil
interest nonsense had a basis in reality, how do you see
opening oil fields in Alaska as worse for the country
than handing it over to a foreign power such as China?
If you're going to spew leftist noise on the motd, please
at least make some bare minimal effort to make sense. Or
would that be a logical paradox for you?
\_ if someone responds to a star wars quote with
anything remotely serious, and you respond seriously
you are just as much of an idiot for responding.
"who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool
who follows him?" -ben kenobi
\_ It doesn't matter what he was responding to. His
drivel required a response, old ben. |
| 2000/11/17-19 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:19814 Activity:high |
11/17 There are 260 million Americans. Is a president who can spell,
does well academically, is honest, has leadership abilities too
much to ask for?
\_ 1) Why does spelling count? 2) Why does GPA count? 3) Yes,
because our political system is so dirty, very few honest men
stand a chance of climbing that while yet remaining clean.
\_ judging from your writing, i'd say you yourself come from
a pretty fucked up country with horribly unjust politics. -ali
\_ Name a country that is not f*ed up and has just politics.
\_ The president of Kirghizstan is a Ph.D. in physics, with
a sizeable amount of work in his field.
\_ In Red China we don't have these problems. All men in
power are great leaders and are honest and academic.
\_ Yeah, they just shoot people they don't agree
with.
\_ But they do it in a fair and nonpartisan manner.
They shoot *all* of the people that don't agree
with them. Sounds pretty fair to me.
\_ Me Too. - ALGOR
\_ They also get any hootchie they want.
\_ More like ~300 million. Try counting the immigrants.
\_ Don't use leftist terminology. It's 270 or so million
citizens and legal residents and 30+ million illegal aliens
that are here in violation of the law. Don't get sucked
into the nonsense which blurs the line between perfectly
acceptable legal immigration and other violating our
borders. There is a big difference.
\_ slavery has been abolished, these aliens should
be freed and not held in bondage by the threat of
deportation
\_ If I wasn't sitting on the floor, I'd have fallen
off my chair laughing! This is one of the best
trolls in a long 10+ days worth of trolls! Yes!
No more borders! One world government! Oh! Please
stop! It hurts to laugh so hard! Thank you for
brightening my day.
\_ Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Fuhrer!
\- 300M is too high. A little over 275M residents
in US [and about 210-220M guns]. --psb
\_ "One World, One Web, One Program" |
| 2000/10/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:19486 Activity:nil |
10/15 I just watched the QuickTime preview for Crouching Tiger,
Hidden Dragon, but it wouldn't be out in the US till Dec.
and I will be out of the country when it comes out. Anyone
know if it is available in Chinese with sub-titles? The dubs
usually suck anyway.
\_ The pirated copies have been available for some time, and there
isn't an offical release yet since it's still in theaters. --oj
\_ Are there any stores in the south bay renting copies?
Or do I have to download the DiVX/ASF via hotline? |
| 2000/9/26 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:19328 Activity:high |
9/25 Anybody else find it funny that the Chinese women all missed the
swimming events? They have set a few records at the 96 games, but
unfortunately nobody believes those records.
\_ I'm sure there are some.
\_ doze crazy she-males!
\_ I believe several of them were barred from the current
Olympics by China itself.
\_ Yup, one diving gold medalist was barred from 10 meter diving
this year because at 22 yrs, she was too old.
\_ And what would be the motivation for that?
\_ The State Central Committee for Olympic Swimming wanted to
do their part for the Glorious People's Revolution by
making some money on the side through the sale of HAWT YUNG
NUDE CHINESE SWIMMER PORN to decadent Western running-dog
white male Asiaphiles. Once their swimmers start getting
too old to appeal to that clientele, they're dumped for new
kids with that 'virginally innocent' look.
\_ RED Chinese women look awful. I can't imagine anyone
except perhaps a sodan who would want to see them in
a porn flick.
trials in the springboard. She's still diving in
the springboard
events, so no big loss.
\_ wonderful contribution to the human
gene pool thanks to the communist government.
they're coming out heinous b/c they're
not getting enough nutrition and/or the
wrong supplements (i.e. too much fluoride
resulting in some major teeth discoloration
fuck-ups in the past).
\_ She was barred because she didn't win their Olympic
trials in the springboard. She's still diving in the
springboard events, so no big loss.
[ reformatted ] |
| 2000/6/5-6 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Recreation/Dating] UID:18416 Activity:insanely high |
6/5 Is there a different technique to getting a Korean chick and a
Chinese chick? I like them all and want to know how to get one.
\_ Slightly different taste in food.
\_ They also, consequently, taste different themselves. Chinese
go well with an old german Reisling while I prefer my
Koreans with a crisp Pinot Grigio. -(fucker)
\_ They do not go well with Chateau Gravas, Sauternes. Such
dessert wines only go well with white girls.
\_ Korean and chinese chicken taste the same when deep fried.
\_ There are many differences. There are many differences just
among Chinese chick(ens) too. May depend on geography, generation,
as well as looks and other things. I will go into all of the
nuances (and more obvious aspects) if I have time after work.
-- someone who has dated Korean and Chinese
\_ sky, is that you?
\_ No, sky is a punk.
\_ What makes me a punk? Most of my ex's are
Korean and my current girlfriend is chinese.
All of them have said I am more asian than most of
their asian ex's in terms of how I view relationships.
Neither am I a racist dick who posts wm/af flame
bait in the motd. White people suck, cept for
seano, but he's a fucker. I could teach you a
thing or three about race relations.
-- Sky, who has thrown down with his asian
brothers against rascist fratboys more than
any of you
\_ Uh, yeah. Ok. By definition, isn't the way the
asian guys view relationships the asian male view
of relationships? It seems self-defining to me.
Maybe they're saying you have a typically asian
female point of view regarding relationships? And
are you saying you're more asian than asians or
just in your view of relationships? ---baffled
\_k I rule the sky!
\_ yeah mon, Asian gf/bf is must have fashion accessory. You need one
to fit in with your friends.
\_ lila, is that you?
\_ have i ever talked anything like that? -lila
\_ "Asian bfs are aesthetically pleasing"
\_ lila has bad taste in men.
\_ why, did i accidentally go out with you once?
sign yer name if you're going to insult me.
\_ Who said it was an insult?
\_ i think saying someone has bad taste is
generally considered to be an insult
\_ you seem to be confusing me with kchang -lila
\_ Why, because theyre hairless, short, skinny
and wear glasses?
\_ I've received many compliments on my
nicely-shaped small penis. - tpc |
| 2000/3/18-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:17796 Activity:insanely high |
3/17 Taiwan election results in. So far, no missiles are firing.
Let's hope it stays that way.
THREAD SUMMARY: "Asian cultures have plagued our fragile planet for many
centuries. They should all be eliminated as soon as possible."
\_ Let the ethnic cleansing in Taiwan begin.
\_ It takes a few minutes to warm up the missiles, hit the button,
fly over the water and get Wolf Blitzer out of bed to report on it.
\_ We (the US) should just tell those STINKING PIG-SUCKING RED COMMIE
CHINESE BASTARD MOFOS in BEJING that if they don't butt out of
Taiwan's democracy, we will bomb them into the stone age. As I
are trying to cosy up with thier kind in RED CHINA at the cost
see it the whole problem is Clinton-Gore are COMMIES and they
are trying to cozy up with thier kind in RED CHINA at the cost
brainwashed by that COMMIE scumback JFK. And the reason that we
of the good decent hardworking liberty loving people of Taiwan.
In some ways you can hardly blame Clinton, after all he was
brainwashed by that COMMIE scumbag JFK. And the reason that we
have all of these problems anyway is because Truman didn't
let MacAurthur take on RED CHINA in the 50s.
\_ I thought the real reason is that Eisenhower didn't let Patten
take on USSR to wipe out communisum altogether right after
Germany surrendered in WWII. -- yuen
\_ HAHAHAHHAHAHA. Take on USSR? Silly child, don't fight a
land war in Russia.
\_ That's the impression I got from a movie. Yeah, Napoleon
lost a land war in Russia too. -- yuen
\_ Why not? - Mongolian, descendant of Subedai
\_ Why not? - WWI Kaiser
\_ Dumbass, the USSR would have declared war if the U.S. attacked
Russia is no longer commie. -- yuen
China. It would have been a nuclear war that the U.S. would
have "won" solely cuz the U.S. had more nukes at the time
But the world would only now be emerging from the nuclear
holocaust that follows.
\_ Bullshit. China and USSR were not allies. Not even close.
Why do you think both have huge numbers of men on both
sides of their mutual border? Partying? Duh.
\_ If they are not allies, why did USSR send all those
technical advisers to commie China?
\_ Yes, but Russia will side with China to take advantage
of the situation if US goes to war with Chian, even
though Russia is no longer commie. -- yuen
\_ Russia is neither more nor less commie than it was
the last 75 years. Russia has and always had a
criminal, dictatorial government. It doesn't
matter what the government calls itself.
\_ As a Chinese-American, I have to say, those Chinese in the
People's Republic are a bunch of fucking punks. Agreed...
We should have done more to crush Mao at the very beginning.
But what can be said...it wasn't in the U.S. interests to bother
with it at the time.
\_ Traitor. The U.S. has this unfounded fear that China wants
to challenge the U.S. - that's not true. They aren't that
stupid, but if you believe those dumbass Republikans
China is going to be next evil threat then stop buying
Made in China stuff - almost all of it helps the PLA get
stronger. It's a fit of irony that you really can't.
It's further irony that everyone is ignorant about
the self-determination of a population when they claim
to be from a country who extols the values of democracy.
The Chinese are not Americans, whether through ignorance
or not, they are much mroe comfortable with auhtoritarian
governments than you are.Leave them be.
\_ You mean the unfounded fear based in part on various top
level Chinese government officials stating in public that
war with the US is inevitable? Chinese like being slaves?
That includes the democratic Taiwanese? We should just
stand around with a thumb up our collective butt while the
communists invade Taiwan because they're "much mroe
comfortable with auhtoritarian governments" than non-Chinese?
That has got to be one of the fucking dumbest things on the
motd all week. I won't even go into the racism thing beyond
the simple mention of the obvious.
\_ The future is always in our interests today. Vision.
\_ Well, Mao kicked our ass at the very outset.
See Korea, North & South
\_ as a Korean, I'd have to say "Fuck Mao!"
\_ No, we didn't fight the real war we could have. It was politcal
stupidity, not military inability. Pick up a book sometime.
\_ Politics is part of waging war. Pick up a book sometime.
\_ Twist in the wind, baby. Keep twisting those words. One
day you'll meet someone dumb enough to believe you.
\_ We can win the Korean war. We can crush Mao by nuking
China. However there is no way we can liberate China
from Mao for KMT at that time. The support for CCP is
too high at that point in time, and it would be like
10 Vietnams.
\_ Actually when Chiang had the advantage in 1947,
Stilwell and Marshall pressured Chiang to compromise
with Mao, giving the Communists much needed time to
build up their forces. Had Chiang kept pressing at
that time, who knows.
\_ Didn't need to free China from Mao but still could have
had a full and complete military victory in Korea.
\_ Not if the Ruskies get dragged in.
\_ Or space aliens from the planet Nemik, but that's
about equally likely.
\_ Why is it not likely? Russia and Commie
China are on good terms then, and Russia
is an ally of North Korea too. It would
be a huge loss of credibility for the
Ruskies if they let their two running
dogs be defeated.
\_ Russia & China allies? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA!!!
Don't be a ditzoid. Only in the last 3-6
months have they even begun to start to
pretend to not hate each other. No one was
launching nukes over Korea. That's the
second dumbest thing on the motd all week.
\_ Really? I thought MacArthur wanted to
do just that (launching nukes). You can
laugh as hard as you want, but it would
not cover up your ignorance.
\_ He wanted to nuke the Chinese. The
Russians hated the Chinese and still
do. Why exactly would the Russians
risk total destruction because we
nuked their hated neighbor? You are
the ignorant one. The idea that the
Russians would risk everything to
help their post-nuked enemy is so
wildly ridiculous that I feel you
must be trolling me. -been trolled
\_ Very simple, if the Russians
let North Korean fall, and then
let Red China fall, they may as
well give up communism and
disassemble the USSR there and
then, rather then 50 years
later. It's called
the USSR version of the dominoes
theory.
\_ You made this up. They don't
have their own version of the
domino theory. Nice try
though.
\_ They may not have a name
for the theory, but it remains that
they understood that to let North
Korea and Commie China fall, they
may as well disassemble the USSR
and give up communism. As much as
they distrust Mao, a US supported
Chiang-Kai-Shek China sharing
the world's longest border with
them would be much more disastrous
for them. You need to learn how
to think from your adversary's point
of view. It's the first step out
of idiotdom.
\_ Don't fight a land war in Asia.
\_ That's what nukes are for.
\_ Don't pull out a gun unless you intend to shoot someone.
Don't point a gun at someone unless you intend to kill them.
If you dont have the resolve, then someone is going to
wrestle that gun away from you, shove it up your ass and
demonstrate the correct result.
\_ USA! USA! USA!
\_ corporate stooge.
\_ Huh?
\_ It's that kind of blind USA chanting that gets this
country into wars it starts but cant finish.
\_ If Hanoi Jane and the rest of her Berkeley spawned ilk were
put in chains and electric chairs where all traitors
belong, it'd be less of a problem.
\_ The problem with the U.S. fighting wars is that if one examines
the historical record, public sentiment for wars that "drag out"
too long are highly unpopular. If Washington hadn't gotten
lucky that one winter, the U.S. wouldn't exist because people
were about to lay down their guns and quit. Anti-war feelings
were even strong in a popular war such as WWII. And Vietnam...
Vietnam was a war of attrition that required huge numbers of
troops to fight a land campaign...and although the U.S. and
South Vietnamese scored an overwhelming victory in the Tet
offensive, the U.S. got fucked politically b/c to Americans,
it never seemed that the war was going to end, even though
we might've scored a military "victory" in a few years time.
When the chips are down, Americans are only in as long as
it looks like we're winning.
\_ Uhm, I think the draft (forcing people to go and fight in a war
against their will) had more to do with the unpopularity of the
war than its perceived duration. Also, you speak of lengthy
wars being unpopular with Americans as though only Americans
experience this, which is at best an inaccurate generalization.
\_ Washington? The "people were about to lay down their guns and
quit" is not the public. What the fuck are you talking about?
This is a total lie. The problem GW had is that his army was
too small, inexperienced, ill equipped, and underfed to fight a
real war with the local school yard bully much less a foreign
super power. There were no Clintonesque opinion polls being
taken on an hourly basis or focus groups being used to determine
if the fight should go on. WWII? Anti-war? Are you fucking
insane? Have you ever met _anyone_ alive during that time in
this country who wasn't a foreign agent? Vietnam? Sure, go
ask Traitor Hanoi Jane why Americans were spitting on their own
at the airports.
\_ I think you're getting us confused with the French.
USA is #1! USA! USA! USA!
\_ It's a matter of acceptable losses. If the PRC is willing
to suffer any number of casualties to take Taiwan,
and the USA isn't, then quite simply, the PRC will win.
\_ 2 mil casualties suffered on the PRC side in Korean War
vs the 60K on the U.S. I think you can safely say they
are very much willing.
\_ Win what? Taiwan? Doubt they can take Taiwan without us
directly interfering. They lack the logistical support
required to move half a million+ men over the straight and
then to keep them supplied. The only thing the PRC can do
to the US is nuke a few west coast cities (SF comes to mind
as a fantastic target). The response with be to glass in
their entire population. There won't be a PRC or anything
resembling civilization after that and they know it. There
is *nothing* the PRC can do but rattle their sabers.
\_ The PRC has the ability to both move and supply the
troops necessary to conquer Taiwan. They do not have
the ability to do so in the face of the US Navy. So
the question is: will the US commit an act of war
against China in order to keep Taiwan free? It is
not a military question, as Taiwan is fully capable
of killing the few soldiers that would make it past
the Navy. Is it worth it to make our allies in Asia
feel comfortable and alienate the largest emerging
market in the world? Of course, China is thinking the
same thing, knowing that the attack if pointless if
we intervene. So it is in the US's best interest to
make it seem that we will, even though I believe that
Clinton would back down if pushed to the wall.
\_ Clinton will back down because he's a traitor and the
Chinese have already bought him off. This has nothing
to with the will of the american people. This is all
about Clinton's treason against this nation.
\_ My point exactly...unless the U.S. is willing to go toe to toe
with a country that has this fucking psycho "we will
win at all costs" mentality, the U.S. will back down.
\_ Clinton will back down because he's a traitor and a Chinese
stooge and his lack act of official cowardess and treason
will be to abandon Taiwan.
\_ Three things:
paper -
Without which, you would be going blind hand copying
texts on bulky and unwielding papyrus, performing self-
flagellation when you made an error, in a damp, dark
monastery. That is, if you are part of the upper-class
intelligentsia. If you are a poor illiterate serf ...
gunpowder -
Without which, the civilized world will still be plagued
by cycles of nomadic expansions, with no answer for the
nomad's superiority in horsemanship and archery.
compass -
Without which, America will still be populated by Indians,
which depending on one's point of view, may be a good or
bad thing.
And these ungrateful pigs want to nuke us after exploiting and
colonizing us for centuries!
\_ Summary: PEOPLE DON"T KNOW THE FUCK WHAT THEY"RE TALKING ABOUT.
\_ Real summary: China has the military might to wear down and take
over Taiwan if the US doesn't intercede. Clinton, the traitor
that he is, will sacrifice Taiwan to the Chinese for the sake of
the children rather than pull a Kennedy/Cuban Missile Crisis on
them and force them to back down. Good bye democracy in Taiwan.
Good bye US credibility to our allies anywhere in the world. Hello
to the rest of the world taking advantage of the new depths of US
weakness and inability to protect our allies or be taken seriously
on anything for many years to come. I'm voting for Bush, not
because I'm a (R). I'm not. But because Gore is already dirtied
with foreign money, most of it Chinese and will lead to 8 more
years of treason in the Whitehouse. I couldn't care less about
the President fucking some pig girl in the Oval Office but
Clinton/Gore's foreign policy, bought off with foreign money,
is treasonous. (The Russians have nothing to do with this thread
and were a side issue full of mis-stated history and conjecture).
\_ MOTHER RUSSIA WILL RULE YOU ALL!!@@@~!!!
\_ Clinton is my hero! The question is: Are you better off
now than you were 8 years ago? Who told you Clinton will
back down if commie China tries to bully Taiwan? Clinton
will give the commies a swift kick in the butt. Who
ordered the carrier battlegroup to sail close to Taiwan's
shores and scare the red China bully when they started
firing missiles into the sea? Clinton is better than
Bush (the father) when it comes to China.
\_ I'm better of today than 8 yrs ago, but not because
of that COMMIE SOB Clinton. It was Reagan who restored
America's greatness and his policies are the ones that
are directly responsible for our prosperity. Clinton
fortunately was more interested in screwing around with
unattractive women than the economy and let Greenspan (a
Reagan appointee) keep the Reagan boom going. If it comes
to a armed Taiwan-RED CHINA conflict, Clinton will side
with his friends the RED CHINESE COMMIE SCUMSUCKERS and
will look the other way while democracy is stopped out.
We need a real KICK-ASS President like John McCain rather
than a ASS-SUCKER president like Clinton. Washington,
Lincoln, TR and Reagan would have dealt with the RED CHINESE
rather than being bought out by them like Clinton-Bore.
\_ Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only thing Reagonomics did was
that even in today's good economy and ample tax
revenues, 25% of the federal budget goes into servicing
the national debt. I sure would prefer to have that 25%
in my bank account instead. |
| 1999/12/1 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/SW/Security] UID:16982 Activity:very high |
11/30 http://www.gn.apc.org/pmhp/ehippies/action/index.htm \_ death to the protesters. We need martial law. Every single protester on TV ended up being an unemployed laborer who basically wants us to pay $75 for a made-in-America Tickle Me Elmo. DEATH TO THE MEATHEADS! USE MORE RUBBER BULLETS! \_ The TV coverage was biased beyond belief. You've been taken by the mass media. Use your mind, not your TV remote. The WTO is evil. One-World Government is evil. I don't hate you, but I do pity you. --eyes open, TV off \_ PAT! PAT! PAT! PAT FOR PRESIDENT!!!! HE'LL SAVE US FROM THOSE ONE-WORLD FOREIGN JOB-STEALING DEVILS!!!!!! \_ Pat is an idiot. I don't care about your job. I care about your air. \_ This is called a "Denial of service attack", not a "sit-in". Dont kid yourselves, this is bordering on illegal, if not actually illegal. The webpage owners are setting themselves up for "Incitement to commit a crime" or something. And personally, I hope they get arrested on those charges. \_ guess what, sit-ins are illegal too. And if you see how it is set up it won't do anything unless tons of people participate \_ It would be far better to just have a petition, with thousands of names. otherwise,it will beseen as a few hundred people trying to interfere with "progress". This is an artificial attempt to magnify the effect that a few hundred people can have. Because if it actually made thousands of people actually "sign" their names, clinton would actually listen. \_ Are you really this stupid? Do you know hte difference between a sit-in and a petition? Sheesh... kids. \_ They're making the dangerous assumption that the average Joe actually *cares* enough to turn on his WebTV and point it at a WTO Web site in the first place . . . \_ Who the hell do you think stopped the WTO today? The streets were packed with average Joes you cynical fuck nut. \_ now THAT (unfortunately) will have an effect. Killing the web site with a DOS attack, will not. \_ I chose not to participate in the DOS. It seemed pointless. I'm still opposed the WTO and in favor of almost any protest opposing the WTO. \_ For what its worth the WTO is a serious issue, deserving alot more attention than its given in the media. Whether the US should be in the WTO is questionable, and bringing China into the WTO would be a blunder. \_ WTO rules! Don't turn US into inward-looking Ming dynasty China! Unilateralism will make the US into a leader without followers! \_ shut up achoi \_ Who's that? \_ Don't turn the US into a lackey of the One World Government. By the people, for the people. Not whatever tiny scrap of empowerment the OWG _lets_ you have. The WTO is evil. \_ Fuck the WTO, the UN, and all One World Government stupidity. \_ of course, this idea does not exclude the similar idea that the WTO rioters all deserve a swift kick to the head while being dunked in toilet water diarrhea. Moron fuck-ups. \_ No. They deserve to be honored as the heros they are. The anti-WTO protesters have a very clear idea of what's going on. If you looked up from your Quake3 once in a while and looked around, you might also. Death to the WTO and all other One World Governemtn anti-people organisations. \_ PAT! PAT! PAT! PAT FOR PRESIDENT!!! HE'LL SAVE US FROM THOSE FOREIGN ONE-WORLDER JOB-STEALING DEVILS!!! \_ It's not about jobs. It's about clean air and water. |
| 1999/9/28-30 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:16613 Activity:low |
9/28 If my passport is stolen while I am traveling in Europe what do I have
to do besides reporting the incident to the local authorities and the
US embassy in the country? And, will I be able to quickly (like in a
day or two) to get a temporary passport to continue on with my travel
around continent or will my trip be screwed over?
\_ I had mine stolen in Poland. It took three weeks to get a new
passport and visa. Just don't let anyone steal the thing.
\_ my friend got her passport stolen in Paris. the experience
will probably
\_ My mom got hers stolen in China. Really messy situation. You should
be worried about whether you can get back to the US sometime soon.
The bureaucracy you have to deal is going to take a long time if you
don't know the right people.
\_ Crime?! In China?! This would never happen. |
| 1999/9/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:16562 Activity:very high |
9/21 "The Chinese Red Cross said it would provide 827,000 yuan
(US$100,000) in disaster aid and 500,000 yuan (US$60,500)
in relief supplies [for Taiwan]"
Is this a communist joke?
\_ China is not as rich as the US you fucker, you can't weight
everything in $ scale.
\-at least they arent sending the people army to "help" --psb
\_ why is the west so against what China do or say? Isn't the world
Gene imagined in the star trek world a communist like society?
the US want to be the super power, and it will do anything to
convince its citizen what they did or say was right. Face it
people, we don't have the greatest system in the world. Only
in the US would teenagers use machine guns against classmates.
\_ First off, anyone trying to make a Star Trek reference like
this has got to be a troll. That and the Chinglish grammar
are big give aways. With that understanding... The reason
the US _is_ (not 'wants to be') the only super power is because
the US _does_ have the greatest system in the world. It is
clearly _not_ perfect. It _is_ the best, though. There isn't
another system on the planet now or ever in the past that could
come even close to making a successful society like we have
here. The only ones that come even close have completely
homogenous people ethnically and culturally. Do I think gun
toting teens is a good thing? No. Do I think that makes other
countries better? No. You're looking at one miniscule aspect
of any incredible complex culture and painting the whole thing
with the same brush. More people died at TS 10 years ago after
the benevolent Chinese government rolled in the tanks than have
died in US from angst ridden teenaged gun massacres in total.
Can't have your cake and eat it too, unless you're a troll.
\_ We do have a great system here, but its far from perfect.
We have a great economical system, but we don't have a
nearly as good criminal justice system. I've been living
in this country for nearly 15 years, I can tell you in
one simple word, its complely fucked up. Criminals are
\_ By my count, that's 4 words.
simply not afraid of the law, even I am not afraid to
commit a crime. I'd think twice about the same if I am
into White.
in China. We have lawyers here that can turn Black
into White. People come here to get rich, they do not
come here for out great system. Instead of seeing every
other system in the world as inferior, maybe its time
you actually go to one, where you realize you can freely
wonder at night in any part of the city without fear of
being shot in the head by some drunk.
We have a great economical system, capitalism and
competition benefits us all. But out justice system
leaves too much to be desired. When US bombed the Chinese
embassy, how many US citizens were hurt in China? Can
you say the same if the situation were reversed? Riots,
pure act of violence, like in LA, are somehow justified.
I am not saying China has a great system, it too has much
to be desired, but certainly it is not as bad as most
media would want you to believe. Look at things from a
subjective point of view, or are we just too arrogent to
to admit any fault? When you have been in something for
too long, what is wrong becomes normal.
\_ Here's the mandatory cheap shot: I'd also be afraid to
commit a crime in a totalitarian regime like China. The
legal system here is quite flawed. Easily granted. I'd
rather have the system as it is and simply not walk naked
down the street at night with a $20 taped to each nipple,
than be able to safely do so and live in a totalitarian
society, such as China. Our laws are perfectly good.
The problem is lack of enforcement, letting people out
early for no real reason, and the social ills that lead
to high crime in the first place. I've not been to
China, but I've been to several other countries and the
homogenously "safe" fascist countries are simply boring
and backwater. Even Europe is like the third world but
more dull and safer. I'll keep my gun toting angry
teens. You can have your safe walk at night. You made
another comment about people coming her for money, not
for our system. It's the system that makes the money.
Also, the *vast* and *overwhelming* majority of citizens
do not commit felony level crimes at any time in their
life. Again, the whole country is painted with a single
brush in one color.
\_ So the Star Trek crew is always wearing those red uniforms
because it's an expression of their red commie-lovin, freedom-
hatin tendencies? Damn. As for the whole teen-machine-gun
thing, the reason it'd only happen in the US is because
capitalism ensures our standard of living is *so* high that
even disgruntled teenagers living in stagnant rural backwaters
can afford high quality firearms! Back in your backward country
with its retrograde economic system, those wacky pissed-off kids
have to use big heavy sticks or farm implements. America: love
it or leave it!
\_ Fuck you all. I'm moving to North Korea. It's legal
now!
\_ Read into more about the world Star Trek is painting. It has
so much in common to the socialism/communism society I
learned in school. Or are we so afraid of the truth that
even the mentioning of communism is hated. You have been
taught Communism is bad, but do you _really_ know what it
is about? You don't.
\_ What makes you think we even like the Star Trek version of
a future 'utopia' anyway. Its BOOOORING. AS the 'evil
captain kirk' said in a ST parody on SNL: "GET A LIFE!"
\_ So the perfect future world of Star Trek is supposed to be
some kind of justification for current flawed Chinese
communism? You're just as bad (and as believeable) as
those people who use Ayn Rand and _Atlas Shrugged_ as a
justification for how our lives would be *so* much better
if only we were ruled by handsome superintelligent
plutocrat industrialists with a taste for kinky sex. You
remind me of my Ethnic Studies TA who continually proposed
communism as a solution to all of the world's problems --
and who, when questioned about the flaws and misery in
current communist systems, always answered that they were
due to the fact that those weren't *perfect*
implementations of communism -- once someone created a
*perfect* communist society, everyone would be happy and
no problems would exist.
\_ Speaking of teens with guns, if you haven't seen it yet,
http://www.newgrounds.com/pico/index.html kicks ASS!
\_ Primary mission objective "Troll motd": complete.
\_ I just want to state right now, categorically and for the
record, that I have absolutely *no* problems with Chinese
communists. Particularly if they happen to be hot female spies
willing to trade sexual favors for industrial secrets.
\_ "Uhm, yeah, I'll trade you this, uh, phasor technology for
a blow!!"
\_ That won't work, since the Chinese apparently *have*
phasors and teleporters and all that Star Trek stuff.
Please see above.
\_ Oh, hmm. So they use credits in the Federa-- I mean
in China, too? Or is it the version of ST where they
don't have or need money or crime because everyone is
happy and all provided for? What technology could I
possibly provide to the Chinese spy chick if their
highly superior society is already 500+ years ahead of
of us poor barbarians? Better condoms?
\_ Yup. China has specialized teleporters that beam
out the man's sperm from the woman's body before
it reaches the ovum.
\_ http://www.spartacist.org |
| 1999/8/13-15 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Computer/SW/Security] UID:16312 Activity:kinda low |
8/13 Anyone seen this? I wonder if we could determine if it's for real:
http://www.iacr.org/~iacr/misc/china
I'm trying to find alternate sources of verification. -brain
\_ It's obviously a hoax. No one is going to hand over $300m in gold
because someone found a tablet. It's ridiculous.
\_ i"ve just decyphered it. The text tells of the location of
the Ark of the Covenent
\_ I saw a problem with the date, it says ROC year 1933, but
there's no ROC year 1933. Obviously, it's western year
1933, which is ROC year 22.
\_ Another problem is that the "Hua" character in "Chung Hua Min
Kwo" (Republic of China) is in Simplified character which was
not used in ROC and in present Taiwan. Simplified character
is only used by Communist China which was founded in 1949.
-- yuen
\_ I have discovered the solution to this problem, but the motd is
too small to contain it. -fermat
\_ umm, okay, really I was asking, "I wonder if there are actual
gold bars with valid encrypted data on them, and if so, what
the encrypted message is." The transaction detailed by the
story is actually irrelevant, because, as you say, it's a
sure bet that the account is no longer valid. -brain |
| 1999/5/12 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:15797 Activity:nil |
5/11 US officials have visited the Chinese embassy before at its current
location, before they "bombed the wrong building", according to
Reuters.
http://www.scmp.com/news/template/Front-Template.idc?artid=19990511182224573&top=front&template=Default.htx&maxfieldsize=4031 |
| 1999/5/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15789 Activity:insanely high |
5/10 Outdated map my ass!
\_ What is the greatest irony is that the epitome of war criminal
of the 20th century since Hitler is accusing the U.S. of war
crimes. Deliberately killing people is a lot different than
accidental ones (though both should be condemned).
- anonymous
\_ the greater irony is how we vilify so many other people and
countries, when in fact the world probably hates US the most
and we don't even care
\_ I think the BIGGER irony is that when Japanese kill
100k-300k people in Nanking is considered a war crime,
yet when US toss atomic bombs upon civilians which kill
100k-300k people in Japan is perfectly justified (ohh, I
forgot, it save lives... whose lives again?).
can't find the URL where I read this.) Don't you think when an
Base upon this logic, I conclude that if Serbia use
air force instead of army do the ethnic cleansing, then
it will not be considered as crime against humanity.
\_The atomic bomb saved lots of Chinese, Malay, Vienamese,
Indian, British, Australian, American, Korean lives.
It may even have saved some Japanese lives.
China did not invade Japan. Japan did attack the US.
a racist asshole who kills).
Ideally, US should have demonstrated the atomic bomb
on an uninhabited island as suggested by the late
Berkeleyan Glenn Seaborg, among others. But what do
you expect? You expect the Americans to initiate a
lengthy diplomatic process to invite the Japanese
militarists to an atomic bomb viewing party, and give
them a few weeks to make up their minds, while the
Japanese are killing, raping, torturing people, doing
medical experiments on human beings, and sinking American
ships?
\_ Actually, the US did just that, but the Japanese govt
declined. But then so did the Soviet Union. go figure.
\_ Are you talking about Milosevic or the Chinese Communists?
I would guess it's the Chinese Communists cause compared
to Mao, Milosevic, though just as nasty, is still a small fry
The problem is the Chinese do not believe in Nato's action
against Yugoslavia, so they don't consider it just an
accident. They consider it collateral damage caused by
an unjust war against Serbia.
For me, I think the US has to interfere in Kosovo.
What Milosevic is doing is a slap on the face of the US-led
west. If he is allowed a free rein, a huge question mark
will be place on all the achievements of the 20th century
against fascism and totalitarians. Milosevic should be
put on trial for ethnic cleansing (in short for being
a racist asshole who kills). Yes, a racist asshole is
a racist asshole no matter where you are.
\_ A huge quesion mark to join Guatemala, Nicaragua,
Chile, Panama, Granada, Vietnam, ...
U.S. Corporations DEMAND dictatorships, death squads,
and genocide. It's called "STABILITY".
\_ obviously it's a serious blunder. imagine what would have
happened if it was the russian embassy that was targeted.
the matter must be investigated thoroughly, including the
possibility of sabotage at lower-level decision makings.
i predict that in the end, heads will roll. -- anonymous
\_ According to a Chinese official, some US official have already
attended events at that Chinese embessy during the past few years
after the embessy was moved to its current location. (Sorry, I
can't find the URL where I read this.) Don't you think when a
US official has a chance to enter a foreign embessy, one of his
jobs is to scout the building? And now they still can't even
get the address right?
\_ Amazingly enough, the millions of people who can be called
"US officials" don't all communicate with each other. The
diplomats who visited the Chinese embassy are not the
military leaders who decide what/where to bomb, and
probably assumed the multi-trillion dollar defense budget
included buying up-to-date maps for the milittary leaders.
\_ How come that at the same time they have detailed satellite
photos of ethnic-cleansings, they have outdated targeting maps?!
\_ Technology can make up for only so much human stupidity.
One might say that technology can even magnify the impact
of stupidity. --Jon
\_ It's a dumb mistake. Dumb mistakes almost always happen
during war. There is simply no good reason for US to
intentionally bomb China's embassy, embarassing itself the
world over. Twisted theories about provoking China to start
a war just doesn't hold well. If they can cut an Italian
ski lift cable, they can bomb a Chinese embassy. By the
way, dumb mistates are not limited to the US.
As for China, it should stop fanning nationalistic and anti-
US sentiments. That would be another dumb mistake. After
\_ Not that apologies from Clinton really mean much. I
doubt that people internationally are taking him
seriously.
all the US has already apologized.
\_ Sorry, you are wrong. Clinton used the word "regret" instead
of apology. Regret can be "I regret not bombing Beijing at the
same time so that no one will voice out." Also, verbal regret
is different from written apology.
\_ Maybe you should watch/listen to/read the news. He
sent a written apology yesterday.
\_ Who in his or her right mind believes a Clintonian
apology? Besides, Beijing wants to relieve the
tension on the 10th anniversary of Tienanmen. The
bombing gave them a convenient excuse. Anyway, now
they're finally airing the apologies. Think anyone
will believe Clinton?
\_ What do you mean about believing and not believing?
It's irrelevant in any case.
Clinton is the elected President of the United States.
He still is the representative for the United States,
and he has apologized. What more do you want?
Lives lost cannot be brought back. Compensation?
Sure. A dumb mistake should not change US policy
on Kosovo. If they believed they should have
intervened in Kosovo before, they should continue
to do so. |
| 1999/5/10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:15785 Activity:very high |
5/10 I just heard the Chinese ambassador on the News Hour. He seemed
to be a complete whacko. Was he just playing games for political
reasons, or is the Chinese culture so different than ours that I
can't understand him?
\_ Do you feel that rough beast slouching towards Bethlehem to
be born?
\_ Chinamen are brain damaged from being upsidedown all day (that's
what you get for living on the other side of the world - sure am
glad we live on top)
\_ racist asshole
\_ racist asshole (and yes, for some reason, it's getting bigger,
the arsehole that is)
\_ NUKE CANADA
\_ I am wondering if you have any basic knowledge of Science.
Are you from Cal? We are living upsidedown all the day if u
consider Asia is the top side. How can you tell which side
is the top when the globe is symmetric? Take Physics classes
if you are still in doubt.
\_ hello? are your really this stupid?
\_ Dan Quayle |
| 1999/5/10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:15776 Activity:very high |
5/10 Stop Bombing. Stop Bombing. US government should apologize and
pay for the damage of the bombing of Chinese Ambassador. Would
you believe in the Army anymore if they can made such error?
One day your home will be bombed because they have receive info
that your home have 1 tons of explosives.
\_ I think it's time we NUKE china. Communist bastards should
die anyway.
\_ racist asshole.
\_ From what I've read, Clinton has apologized, but the Chinese
\_ They didn't PROMISED anything on paying the damage. And, do you
know that each bombing is needed to be approved by several stages.
No one find out the big fault. It seems to me that the bombing is
well planned and targeted to Chinese Ambassador. 4 death and more
than 20 injury, remember. You know where is the Chinese Ambassador
if you get a local map! And the building is easily distinguished
from other since it is a famous landmark.
government hasn't acknowledged it. Nor have they allowed the
chinese protestors to get wind of the apology.
\_ Does age of a building related to whether its a landmark or not?
The building can be distinguished from the top easily since
the roof is made of Marble. The bombing team need to recognized
the building from top, i bet. Why can 3 bomb hit the same target
if it the target is wrong??
\_ They have already apologized repeatedly, for all it's worth.
Remember, NATO has dropped more than 15,000 bombs, many during
demanding more concessions from everyone before they
join the WTO. And I don't see anyone in the Chinese
government having to apologize for stealing all of our nuke
secrets, or if you want to harp on interfering in a
sovereign country's affairs, for invading Tibet/Vietnam,
causing all kindsa trouble in the Pacific...self-righteous
hypocritical morons. Nice grammar, by the way. -John
nightfall, so they do have, for the most part, an incredible
the secrets. Doesn't American Spy on other countries at all?
What is FBI then?
rate of success.
\_ They didn't PROMISED anything on paying the damage. And, do
you know that each bombing is needed to be approved by
several stages. No one find out the big fault. It seems to
me that the bombing is well planned and targeted to Chinese
Ambassador. 4 death and more than 20 injury, remember. You
know where is the Chinese Ambassador if you get a local map!
And the building is easily distinguished from other since it
is a famous landmark.
\_ can't be that famous of a landmark, it's only a few years
old
\_ Does age of a building related to whether its a
landmark or not? The building can be distinguished
from the top easily since the roof is made of Marble.
The bombing team need to recognized the building from
top, i bet. Why can 3 bomb hit the same target if it
the target is wrong??
\_ Well mr. Red China is so put upon, poor us, evil US, the
Chinese are going to use this as the perfect reason for
demanding more concessions from everyone before they join the
WTO. And I don't see anyone in the Chinese government having
to apologize for stealing all of our nuke secrets, or if you
want to harp on interfering in a sovereign country's affairs,
for invading Tibet/Vietnam, causing all kindsa trouble in the
Pacific...self-righteous hypocritical morons. Nice grammar,
by the way. -John
\_ Once again, Give us proof when and where did Chinese steal
the secrets. Doesn't American Spy on other countries at
\_ FBI is for spying on ourselves. Perhaps you're thinking
about the CIA.
all? What is FBI then?
\_ What about when the Chinese government dropped missiles just
outside of Taiwan a couple years back? Didn't see any
Chinese protest the aggression. Hypocrites.
\_ Does that missiles cause any death? Remember the 4 deaths
under NATO/US missiles. Furthermore, Taiwan is still a
part of China, as recognized by US.
\_ Maybe the US wants another World War, so they bombed the
Embassy on purpose. Like Vietnam (Tonkin Gulf) and WWII
(Pearl Harbor) and many other examples of standard State
deception. Think of the power, the population, and the
social control benefits!!!
\_ This is all a conspiracy to bring about the biblical armaggeddon
3) It was the CIA's fault.
4) China's going to use it for all that it's worth.
5) If you were China wouldn't you, too?
\_ 1) It was an accident. 2) It was an incredibly stupid accident.
3) China's going to use it for all that it's worth.
4) If you were China wouldn't you, too?
\_ Chinese leadership is kind of dumb in this regard. They
exploit every little opportunity to gain small advantages,
only to lose what is important - a good relationship with the US. |
| 1998/12/30-31 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:15142 Activity:high |
12/29 Chinese hackers caught stealing money from a Chinese bank.
Sentenced to death.
URL: http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/17039.html
Talk about unforgiving....
\_ criminals needs to be punished, period. the reason criminals
aren't afraid of the law in this country is the law protects
them, one way or the other. China can learn everything about the
west except their fraggin justice system.
\_ So you think there's only one punishment for all crimes? Death?
Would you execute people for spitting on the side walk?
\_ I'd execute people for posting inanities to the motd.
\_ Starting with yourself? |
| 1998/11/3-4 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:14893 Activity:high |
11/3 aaron -- do you prefer sushi or dimsum? do you prefer jtown over
china town? do you prefer Yaohan over Ranch 99?
\_ it's prefer to, not prefer over
\_ It's 99 Ranch, not Ranch 99
\_ dimsum, never been to jtown much, never been to yaohan. are
you too shy to ask what you really want to know? --aaron
\_ I think he wants to find out if aaron prefers CHINESE chicks.
\_ It's 99 Ranch, not Ranch 9
\_ dimsum, never been to jtown much, never been to yaohan. ar
you too shy to ask what you really want to know? --aaro
\_ I think he wants to find out if aaron prefers ZINC chicks |
| 1998/10/8-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:14751 Activity:high |
10/7 Can you name all the Muslim countries on earth that is not at war
with other countries?
\_ Idiots! All of you. There answer is, there aren't any.
\_ NO MORE BONGO BURGER FOR YOU. I AM OUTLAWING YOU.
\_ Racist pig. Can you name all the white male dominated western
countries that are not at war with other countries?
\_ Yes! WHITEY IS THE PROBLEM!!! KILL WHITEY!!! IF YOU'RE NOT
NOT A RACIST, KILL THE NEAREST WHITE MALE NOW!!! Crazy
Muslim hot-headed hypocrite bigots will rule the world!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!
\_ Whitey will pay
\_ Never! Whitey will oppress forever! Whitey will beat
down the minority women with his oppressive white
male giant scaly penis of DOOM. White power! WHITE
POWER! -(fucker)
\_ Try this: name all Judaeo-Christian countries that have engaged
in military actions in the past 5 years, and then do the same for
country of muslim, buddist, and atheist dispositions.
\_ That's "secular", not atheist. There's a difference.
\_ Read carefully. I said disposition, not state religion.
US is disposed to Judae-Chiristianity.
\_ Ok then, name a country with an "atheist
disposition". Are there any that exist that are
bigger than my living room?
\_ One can argue that China is a little bigger
than your living room, and the government has
a clear atheist disposition. It is unfortunate
that the most powerful avowed atheists in the
world are totalitarians, just like the most
powerful theists used to be. It provides some
ammunition for condemning atheism, though we
might retort with the Inquisition, just for
starters. But power corrupts the theist and
atheist alike. -- schoen
\_ One word for you, "Tibet".
\_ Am I the only one who wants to make little
"nuke" stickers to put over the "free" part
of those obnoxious free tibet bumper
stickers?
\_ Actually, if you had lived in mainland
china for an extended period of time (I
had for 17 years), you will find life to
be more just and fair than, say, the US
30 years ago, and it is catching up fast. As
for Tibet, if you are a Tibetan, you have
to be a Tibetan Buddhist, period. But then
China has millsions of Muslims and Christians,
not to mention many more "real" buddhists and
Taoists. This, however, does not change the
China's disposition as atheist. Similarly,
the existence of atheists in US does not change
its desposition from being religious.
BTW, over the summer I visited regions in the
greater Tibet within China, (Tibetan activists
claim about 1/4 of China and large area in
south Asia as their territory) and found
Tibetans life to be much much better than
native americans in the US.
\_ I did not mean to say anything about the
US v. China, or about Tibet. I was just
complaining that the Chinese atheists are
also totalitarians, which they are. Some
American theist political types are also
fairly totalitarian, and plenty of people
can attest to how little I like the US
government. As an individualist, I may
have different standards of "just and fair"
than other people. On power corrupting
businesses, see ~schoen/power.txt. -- schoen
\_ I'm flattered that you took the
time to type up such a long document
in an attempt to convince me of
something that i can not be
convinced of -- that Government
(as opposed to a particular
government) is intrinsically
"immoral", as you say.
\_ You're welcome, and I deny that
you "can not be convinced of"
that. Someone deleted the "power
corrupts businesses" comment, and
that's an attempt at the response
I would have made, were it not
too long for the motd. Note that
this particular document isn't
really an attempt to persuade you
to be anti-statist, only to be
pro-capitalist. -- schoen
of starvation from the u.s. sanctions? albright claims it is
worth it. today is International Hunger Day.
\_ Population control: if Family Planning won't do it, then let the
military take a swipe at it.
\_ Can you say Cambodia.
\_ They've been doing it just fine for thousands of years.
The mistake was not letting them take it far enough.
\_ Mother Nature's been doing a decent job as of late. Let's
give her a coupla years before we start nuking everyone.
\_ Think of the alternative. 300 million more mouths to feed.
That's a *huge* deal. Not everyone can wave their magic
wand and conjure up food, land, etc. resources just like
that. China would have been a serious hellhole if they
weren't practicing coercive population control measures.
Human rights, shmuman rights. I'm an Amnesty International
member, so yeah, I guess I do care about that, but when
it comes down to it, China's actually being *responsible*
by trying to limit their growth. Can you imagine doing
anything like that in a US context? If Congress or the
President were to consider making a resolution merely
encouraging people to have no more than 2 kids, he/they
would get shot down in a second. Coercive or not, China's
policies have worked, and the world is better off for it.
\_ Try twisting your head around wildly while thinking of the number
of the number of countries that continually increase the amount of
home-grown tomatoes each year. Then hop-up-and-down on one foot,
pat your head with your left hand, rub your belly with the right,
and do your best to name countries that begin with the letter 'W'.
\_ Waco?
\_ Malaysia
\_ They're at odds with Singapore, but it's more of
a Malay vs Chinese thing than Islam.
\_ They've got their differences with Singapore, but
I'd hardly call it a war (see orig. question).
\_ have you ever considered the children in iraq who are dying
of starvation from the brutal sanctions? albright claims
it is worth it. today is International Hunger Day.
\_ Kill em all, let God sort em out! (or is it Allah?)
\_ I consider them next generation's anti-American terrorists.
Better to kill them now when it's easy.
\_ saying that all iraqis are terrorists is like saying that
all eecs majors are nerds...oh wait, bad example.
\_ You're a funny man. 150,000 dead children cracks me up every
time.
\_ Hey, me too! Cracks me up every time!
\_ It's not 150,000 dead children. It's 575,000
dead children.
\_ It's not 575,000 dead children. It's 3,575,000
dead children.
\_ That's all? 3.5m terrorists dead, how many to go?
\_ Fuck you.
\_ are you cute?
\_ Better 3.5M of them than 1 of us.
\_ I'd trade our serial killers for their terrorists
at a 1:3.5m ratio.
\_ People suck -- Nuke the entire planet, and give the cockroaches
a chance. |
| 1998/8/3 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:14422 Activity:high |
8/3 http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/9785 \_ Are you sure these women are chinese? They look kind of dark. Maybe they were indonesian women. \_ I came from China, and there the shade of skin colour of people vary over a large range, depending on geographical, occupational, as well as genetic factors. \_ Most of the Indonesian you met in the U.S. are ethnic Chinese. They consider themselves Indonesian but their government does not and designate their I.D. card with a note so that they can be easily singled out. Their admission to higher education is severely restricted so most of those who wants to pursue it has to go oversea. They are also essentially barred from is severely restricted so most of those who want to pursue it have to go oversea. They are also essentially barred from joining civil service and military and almost anything beside commerce. |
| 1998/7/10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:14313 Activity:high |
7/10 See Lethal Weapon 4 ! See Jet Li beat up Mel Gibson at least once
(though, unfortunately, Jet Li plays a bad guy and, of course,
thus has to lose at the end.)
\_ Asian guys always lose at the end. This is an white country.
WHITE POWER!!
\_ Print your name so we can flame your racist ass.
\_ "This is AN white country." Check your grammar you idiot.
\_ Not in Hong Kong movies :) |
| 1998/7/9-10 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:14310 Activity:high |
7/10 ASIAN CRIME OVERLORD JET LI
\_ Jacky Chan (aka SuperCop) will arrest him any time.
\_ And Chow Yun Fat will riddle him with bullets before
he can lay a kick.
\_ Keep yer chinky china town crap off the motd you yellow slants!
\_ print your name so we can flame your racist ass.
\_ Did someone set off illegal Chinese fireworks in your pants?
\_ Chinese are illegal? Then why do we show their movies?
\_ just the fireworks.
\_ Legalize Haw Flakes!
\_ Legalize Chinese Interns, too.
\_ I never thought that Soda is that racist.
\_ Soda is not - the machine has no clue about races.
Soda users are widely varied however, and some are racist.
\_ I agree!!! Negroes are the best!!!
\_ West Siiide!
\_ North Siiide is Hella cool. |
| 1998/1/27-28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:13567 Activity:high |
1/26 http://www.lindatripp.com \_ The king of Persia has hundreds of women around him. The prince of India has a very nice harem. The emperor of China has more \_ "has"? china hasn't had an emperor for a long time. --aaron women than the number of students in Berkeley. And I'm sure Sadam has a very nice private chamber too. What's wrong with the president of the greatest power in the world sleeping with a couple of interns? \_ they are ugly. that's the problem. thank you for your time. \_ The countries you named are all fucked up. Thank God (or whoever) this country isn't yet that fucked up. \_ I think Bill should do as he pleases (Clinton and Gates) \_ I agree, just not while representing my country to the world as my President and leader. Gates is welcome to do whatever he pleases within the law. Clinton must adhere to a higher standard while in office. \_ but king, prince, emperor & sadam represent their countries and still do c00l things that most men dream of doing \__Go live in China or Iraq if you love their systems so much. \_ Yup and their countries are all *seriously* fucked up, as are their leaders. Being a real leader isn't about having a harem. Don't fuck over my country so you can wave your penis around, Mr. President. You want cheap whorish sex, go hire some prostitutes. Not on my time, or my dime, Bill. |
| 1997/12/3 [Academia/Berkeley, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:32177 Activity:nil |
12/1 Join the protest against UCB offering scholarship to Chinese
dissident Wei
- why would you be against? you some kind of commie?
\_ I have never figured out why U.S. schools give free
education and so much money to foreign students.
This kind of activity should be banned by law.
\_ Uh, this isn't any random student. It's a politcal
gesture. It has zero effect on your financial aid or
ability to get an education.
\_ I totally agree. The US policy is causing too
much of a brain drain and money drain for other
countries. Educating their youth for free for
12 years, only to have them go to a US university,
to drain another $100000 from their country for
school fees and living expenses, and then have
the now productive person work in the US and pay
US taxes to pay for the education of US kids.
What a deal!
\_ How many get a spot that a real American (read:
read human being) would have had otherwise?
\_ I don't know about that, but the last time I
checked, the software industry where there is
a huge concentration of foreign born engineers
is short of 200000 engineers, and the
unemployment rate is at an all time low.
I don't know about UC Berkeley but at a lot
of less prominent universities, the professors
just can't find enough US graduate students
willing to spend 5 years of hardship and low
pay to do research work.
\_ How idiotic: U.S. universities would be a
bunch of third-rate diploma mills were it not
for European Jewish intellectuals (ie.,
Einstein, for starters) fleeing the Nazis for
the U.S. Would you deny Enstein a fellowship?
\_ I suspect very few graduate students are
fleeing political persecution. What
happened 50 years ago is irrelevant (kinda
like your argument). Its foreign countries
that need the U.S.
The amount of academic support given to foreign
students is disgusting. Hmmm, lets educate
our competition so they can undermine
U.S. based industries. Lets educate
foreign students for free when so many
bright kids in America are deprived of a
passable education. Think about it a little
bit.
\_ Foreign born engineers and scientists is
one of the major strengths of US-based
industries.
As for US education, I thought it has improved
a great deal already. In any case, it
already has one of the highest cost per
student. Throwing more money at it is
probably not going to solve any ills that it
has. Granted, some of the inner city schools
may have financial problems, but that is more
a problem of distribution.
\_ Wei is one of the few interesting thinkers to have come
out of China since the Cultural Revolution. That is,
universities are vying for him because of his notable
and influential scholarship. And I'm all for U.S. schools
recruiting smart people, foreign or not.
\_ Intellectuals and scholars OUT of UC Berkeley! Down
with the ivory towers! Sack all departments except for the
athletic department! What do you think this is, a place
of learning ?
\_ This isn't about scholastic achievement or intellectualism.
This is about some foreigner taking a spot a real American
would have had. Not just in the classroom but housing,
jobs, and other resources. What does this clown offer us
in return?
\_ How about scoring brownie points with the wealthy
Asian donors that Chancellor Tien got to donate
millions upon millions of dollars to the University,
so that they want to donate even more?
\_ You mean to build themselves an ugly building on
campus to further their politcal agenda?
\_ This guy will write a book and will earn his US
publisher a few hundred thousand dollars in Taiwan
alone (if all you care is people taking your money).
\_ I'm glad his publishers will make money. I'm sure
every crap book that Oprah features on her show makes
money. That doesn't mean the author belongs at
Berkeley or any other decent school.
I don't know if this guy will succumb to the
disgraceful infighting of the Chinese exiles, but
he did spend 14 years in prison unlike the Tiananmen
square student leaders, so you have to give him the
benefit of the doubt.
Remember that the money for him is going to come
some Chinese/Far Eastern studies department/institute.
And his personal experience with the Chinese prison
system alone would probably bring more for the
department/institute than your typical graduate
student. Now you may want to argue that Chinese/Far
Eastern studies are useless, but that's another
argument.
\_ It's just a forum for further propaganda.
\_ He won't be coming to UCB; he accepted a fellowship offered
by Columbia University - android
\_ Good. Suckers. |
| 11/23 |