Politics Domestic President Clinton - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Politics:Domestic:President:Clinton:
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2022/06/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2010/1/14-25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:53632 Activity:nil
1/14    http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100113/ts_csm/273734
        "It's of little relative importance, given the magnitude of the human
        suffering in and around the Haitian capital of Port-au-Prince, but
        China's search-and-rescue team was the first to reach there Thursday,
        preceding US teams by a couple of hours."
        Oh no, they got there first even though the are many more hours away.
        The Chicom is going to make a big deal out of this.
2009/10/7-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:53432 Activity:low
10/7    'Whatever' so totally tops most annoying word poll - Yahoo! News:
        \_ Whatever
           \_ You are obviously not hanging with the cool kids.  It's
              \_ Don't forget to throw up both thumbs and index fingers
                 together to make a "W".
2009/8/19-9/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:53286 Activity:nil
8/18    Creator of '60 Minutes' Don Hewitt dies - Yahoo! News Photos:
        What's going on?  Was Bill saying "No you can't take my bitch away!"?
2009/6/30-7/15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:53100 Activity:nil
6/30    It appears that the coup in Honduras was ordered by the court and
        the congress to head off an illegal constitutional refferendum by
        the prez to make himself dictator for life.  So, why does the Obama
        administration oppose this?  Am I missing something?
        \_ Because he was still legally president at the time.  Illegal
           referendum = court throws it out and president may well be
           impeached.  It doesn't mean the millitary comes in and kicks
           out the sitting president.  A coup is not rule of law.
           \_ Since the prez lead a mob to attack the military installation
              holding the ballots, I think he was pretty much already starting
              his own coup.  Directly throwing him out may not have been
              the perfectly legal solution, but it certainly makes sense
              given the circumstances.
        \_ The Journal is a Murdoch tool, especialy the Opinion section.
           \_ And the AP article?  (That's why I posted both.)
              Murdoch is having his papers tap the phones of opposition
              politians in Britian. Think he isn't doing the same here?
2009/6/29-7/15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:53085 Activity:nil
6/29    Motd archiver is up and running:
        \_ I like the shiny interface!  Write support would be neat ;)
           Maybe even with authentication... - steven
           \_ I can write a "bridge" between a text motd and a more
              modern web version. Something that writes/deletes one, and
              makes changes to the other version. The text version will be
              good for old farts and the new version will be good for
              people born after 1985 who can't use vi/emacs /etc/motd.public.
              Is that what you're thinking of?    -kchang
             \_ Something like that, yeah.  I'm trying to think of ways
                to make it more accessible to new members.  It's sad
                that they aren't as comfortable with a shell but that's
                how it's going (and it's not getting any better...)
                \_ Just lose the MOTD and put up a bulletin board.  -tom
2009/4/27-5/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52914 Activity:low
4/27    "Obama the first Asian-American president?"
        Just like the way Clinton was the first African-American president.
        \_ Two wars, a banking, housing, and general economic crisis, a truly
           massive deficit, and now, Swine Flu.  Has any president except for
           Lincoln and Roosevelt faced worse?
           \_ Clinton faced impeachment for an affair with an intern who was
              fat and who wasn't even pretty compared to the average
              twenty-something.  IMO that was worse.
              \_ The two situations don't even seem comparable to me.  One
                 is a media "crisis", whereas the wars, economy, deficit, and
                 flu are real threats to the country.  Even Nixon's situation
                 wasn't so dire a threat the the country:  that was just
                 removal of a criminal from office, not "jeesus, we're
                 all fucked."
                 \_ just curious, what made you write this response with
                    any degree of seriousness?  - !pp
                    \_ A cynical belief that a lot of people REALLY DO
                       think that sexual pecadillos such as Clinton's
                       are that important.  Look who voted for Bush in the
                       last election.  Rabid religiousity is rampant in
                       this country, to our great detriment, and I know
                       from experience that motd commentators are not
                       all immune from religious rabies.
                        \_ See the post on "Who would Jesus torture" above
                           and ask yourself, am I wrong to be cynical about
                           rabid religiousity?
              \_ What does her looks have to do with it? Would impeachment
                 have been okay if Clinton's intern had been better looking?
2009/3/13-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52710 Activity:nil
3/13    So Bill Clinton doesn't know what an embryo is?
        \_ obCigarJoke
2009/3/8-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52686 Activity:kinda low
3/8     http://spectator.org/archives/2009/03/06/treasury-these-moments
        Obama has no idea what the fuck he's doing -Dem
        \_ A Democrat who reads the American Spectator? Really?
           \_ The GOP has fucked things up in ways you cannot imagine, but this
              does not equate to the Dems knowing what the fuck they're doing.
              We're all fucked!  I'll let you know when I seee the Dems getting
              on the right track. -Dem
        \_ Cult of personality figures tend not to.
        \_ This is a slightly nicer web site than freerepublic. Kudos!
        \_ Both parties love Big Government:
2009/3/6-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52682 Activity:nil
3/6     Apparently, our State Department can't speak Russian
        \_ See, Bush could've run that by Condi first.
        \_ Damn, why couldn't they consult with the motd first? Seems like
           we have more Russian speakers than the entire state department.
           No wonder only 6 months ago USA-Russia relations hit an all-time low
           since the Cold War.
2022/06/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2009/2/4-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52511 Activity:kinda low
2/3     Well said: "What gets people upset are executives being rewarded for
        failure. Especially when those rewards are subsidized by US taxpayers."
        \_ Turns out, he gets it.
           \_ Talk is cheap.
              \_ Freedom is strength.
        \_ Isn't this something like FDR might have said?
           \_ http://www.hpol.org/fdr/inaug
              Practices of  the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in
              the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds
              of men. ... The money changers have fled their high seats in
              the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple
              to the ancient truths.
              Obama has a long ways to go to reach FDR's eloquence.
        \_ I'm young and have nothing, thus have nothing to lose
           with Socialism. Bring it on, Socialism is GOOD for us
           Gen-Y and Gen-Z!
           \_ You lie.  We all know you are a bitter old man who is
              convinced his life is hard because he's only in the top 5%.
           \_ Nothing to lose but your FREEDOM!!!!!!
           \_ No, it's bad from Gen-Y and Gen-Z, it's good for baby-boomers.
              Gen-Y and Z have to work to support the older ones. Duh.
        \_ So does that mean the leaders of our failed government will work
           for free? Did Bush turn down his US taxpayer-funded salary for
           screwing the country over? I didn't think so.
           \_ When a President receives a $1m+ retirement package, come cry to
              \_ They already do.
                 \_ Really? Or are you including book deals, lecture circuit,
                    and think tank stipends?
                    \_ Yes, really.  Here, let me google that for you:
                       We paid Bill Clinton 1.1 million in 2008 alone (and
                       remember, he's still raking in money from the things
                       you mentioned.  The last I heard, he'd made something
                       like 100 million since leavin office, but I haven't
                       like 100 million since leaving office, but I haven't
                       looked into the exact number).  Then there's the value
                       of the other (nonpaid) benefits, such as the secret
                       service detail assigned to him.
                       \_ Read your own material: we paid him a pension of
                          $200k and then we paid other expenses (including
                          $500k in rent; if you want to argue that this is
                          excessive, fine, I tend to agree, let's cap that,
                          but it's not his pension). We did not give him a
                          goodbye golden parachute of even $1m.
                          \_ Wait -- so we're paying him $1m *every year* and
                             you don't want to call that a $1m retirement
                             package because in your head only the first
                             $200k we pay him counts?  okay...
                          \_ I read and understood it, but apparently you
                             believe that a "retirement package" consists
                             solely of a one-time payment when employment
                             ends?  Clinton has been paid $8 million by the
                             federal government since leaving office.  During
                             this same time period, George H.W. Bush has
                             been paid $5.5 million, and Carter has received
                             $4 million.  I believe these all qualify as
                             presidents receiving "a $1m+ retirement package".
                             They don't work for the federal government
                             anymore (hence "retirement"), and the total
                             they've been paid since that retirement began
                             is greater than $1million (for each of them).
                             Most executive golden parachutes are structured
                             the same way (with some expenses itemized, and
                             being paid in later years).
                             \_ You average retired army sergeant lives another
                                30 years and pulls down $35k/yr. I guess that
                                is a "$1m pension" and obscene, by your
                                \_ Your comment contains my answer.  When
                                   the value of a retirement package is being
                                   expressed across the life of the recipient,
                                   it is usually expressed as one dollar
                                   amount.  When it is expressed as the annual
                                   value, it is customary to describe it as
                                   per year (whether you are a former
                                   president, former CEO, or retired army
                                   sergeant).  Either is simply a factual way
                                   of describing it.  So yes, a $35k/year
                                   pension could also be described as having a
                                   $1 million total value (but no, I wouldn't
                                   describe $1 million over 30 years as an
                                   obscene retirement package for anyone).
                                   Since Bill Clinton's retirement package
                                   can be described as $1 million per year,
                                   as well as (well over) $1 million total,
                                   my initial comment that we already have
                                   former presidents receiving $1 million
                                   retirement packages holds true even if you
                                   are incapable of making this distinction.
2009/2/4-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52510 Activity:nil
2/4     Ouch, that left a mark on Daschle
2009/1/27-2/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52478 Activity:nil
1/27    http://www.realnews.org/index.php-option=com_content&task=view&id=59&Itemid=189.htm
        [Title: Hilary's Bush Connection. Summary: Ties to Alan Quasha.]
        \_ I knew hillary was evil!
        \- in case you are interested, the old white guy to the right of
           the clinton-bushco picture [chalmers johnson] is a former ucb
           prof who sort of went nuts.
2009/1/22-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52446 Activity:nil
1/22    We now have more government workers than manufacturing
        Note the steady growth of gov't jobs
        \_ What is this guys source for data? Overall employment in the
           Federal Govt shrank during the Clinton years, but state govt may
           have more than made up for that, I don't know.
           \_ He says what his source is, right there on the page.
              \_ That source doesn't do it for me, but I tracked down the
                 original data, which is from the US Census. Good enough for
                 government work, right? The percentage of the population that
                 has been employed by the government has been steady at 7%
                 since 1980. The percentage employed in manufacturing has
                 \_ The numbers at http://www.bls.gov/emp/empmajorindustry.htm
                    match  OPs chart.  (and btw, these show a 14% Gubment
                    employment level, again not including tax attorneys and
                    gubment contractors.)
2009/1/6-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:52326 Activity:low
1/6     URL speaks for itself, really
        \_ Is Art Bell a Republican?
           \_ Your reading comprehension has been classified as: lacking.
              \_ You must not have read all the comments...
2009/1/6-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52322 Activity:nil
1/5     What happened to Separation of Church and State?  Where did all these
        churchy Dems come from?
        \_ conservative democrat is the new republican
           \_ Going to church != conservative.  Or do you think Obama's a
              \_ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10133425-38.html
                 I think he's something we haven't seen in a long time.
                 \_ Pragmatic?
                    \_ he's a good republican.
2008/12/15-28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52249 Activity:nil
12/15   You've got to be kidding me.
        \_ She's "an attorney, editor, writer and member of the New York
           and Washington, D.C. bar associations" according to wikipedia.
           How is she any less qualified than anyone else?
2008/12/4-9 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52162 Activity:kinda low
12/4    Regarding the Somalian pirates, how about sailing some decoy
        ships back and forth around there, clandestinely armed, and
        give the pirates a very nasty shock?
        \- this is not a hard problem to solve. there just inst much
           interest in solving it on the part of the us govt. i.e.
           it's a issue of priority, not technique.
        \_ Does a decoy ship work?  How do you make your decoy ship more
           attractive than the hundreds of ships out there?  I don't think
           pirates choose the ships the same way pick-pocketers choose their
           victims by picking a seemingly vunerable one out of random
           victims by picking a seemingly vulnerable one out of random
           \_ You put out a big sign that says "I'm just a poor undefended
              freighter loaded with gold.  And poor me without any crew to
              guard me.  Please don't hijack me."
              \_ Just say "Parlay"
        \_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship
        \_ The obvious thing to do is to take over the Somalia government
           for a regime change, put in a puppet ruler of your choice
           or better yet, hold elections so it looks like it's their
           own fault for picking a leader nobody likes. Then you write
           constitutions in the new government, and MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
           \_ You mean like what Clinton tried to do with Aidid?
              \_ Yeah, something like that, except O will have to stick
                 around long enough to make sure it is done right.
           \_ how about "encouraging" a friendly neigbor, say, Ethiopia,
              to invade and install a suitable government...
              \_ Which country would want to invade a devestated messy country
                 and set a foot into the mud?  "There is no other country like
                 \_ The UN, with US leadership, would do it. This is a great
                    opportunity for Obama to start to rebuild the shattered
                    International community, that Bush so badly damaged.
        \_ Although I still think the international community should do
           something about this problem, once I read up on WHY the Somalis
           resort to piracy things made more sense.  Many of these Somalis
           were fisherman, but the factory trawlers that scraped their fishing
           areas clean of fish have destroyed that livelihood -- first they
           tried attacking the trawlers but the trawlers fought back -- now
           they just make their money from piracy.
           \_ And they fight back against evil fish sailors aboard the Flying
              Dutchman, yarrr..
2008/11/24-12/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52092 Activity:nil
11/23   Cal's own Christina Romer to head White House Council of Econ Advisors:
        \_ Were there any other Cal people after Randy Katz who served at the
           White House?
           \_ Brad DeLong
           \_ There's an economics dude.  I forget his name, but he's been
              on Daily Show/Colbert Report.  Short guy.  Beard.
               \- robert reich came to berkeley after washington. he is a
                  lawyer not an economist.
        \_ Ug, he really is trying to recreate the clinton whitehouse.  Taking
           a popular cal professor to chair the CEA.  Problem is that
           Laura Tyson >> Christina Romer
             \- you dont know what you are talking about. i bet harvard
                is now upset over the Romer Fiasco.
                \_ Well, you are close to right. I don't know what YOU are
                   talking about.  What is the "Romer Fiasco"?  As for what
                   i'm talking about: I had both as professors and have read
                   a good deal from both of them and I assure you that
                   Laura Tyson is a far superior Economist.  In fact, i'd go
                   so far as to say that she is actually reasonably smart, which
                   is rare in the field.
                   \- compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Romer#Career
                      [which should answer the harvard fiasco question] with all
                      the criticism of LT when appointed to the CEA chair.
                   so far as to say that she is actually reasonably smart,
                   which is rare in the field.
                   \- well maybe you are smarter than "the field" but
                      the "the field" disagrees with you in terms of
                      academic reputation. compare
                      [which should answer the harvard fiasco question] with
                      all the criticism of LT when appointed to the CEA chair:
                      [i've only dealt with LT directly and am pretty familar with
                      her work on japan and "administrative guidance]. i only know
                      CR's work on the depression indirectly.
                      [i've only dealt with LT directly and am pretty familar
                      with her work on japan and "administrative guidance"].
                      i only know CR's work on the Depression indirectly.
                      also your premise that picking a berkeley economist for
                      cea-> recreate the clinton whitehouse suggests you arent
                      to be taken seriously. a better bit of evidence is the
                      presence of LT and RR on the transition team.
2008/11/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:52058 Activity:low
11/20   So I remember when WND and their motd.followers started calling
        the genocide in Rwanda, the "Clinton genocide" because he did
        nothing while it happened. Are you all calling the Congo
        and Sudan massacres the "Bush genocide's" as well?
        \_ This would require a level of introspection that has been
           prominently lacking in WND and Bush apologists.
2008/11/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:52001 Activity:low
11/16   "The Clinton Cleavage, They're Real and They're Spectacular!"
        http://www.csua.org/u/my6 (mensnewsdaily.com)
        Is this real?
        \_ uh... no
           \_ that was terrible.  Thanks, but no thanks.
2008/11/9-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:51888 Activity:nil
11/9    "How Ex-Presidents & Prime Ministers Make Their Money"
        Not all world leaders step-down equal.
2008/10/16-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:51555 Activity:low
10/16   You think the deficit is bad?  Look at the debt side.
        '"At the end of the last fiscal year, that (the national debt) came to
        $53 trillion or about $550,000 per household," he says. "We may well
        have passed the point where the federal government's total financial
        hole exceeds the net worth of all Americans."'
        \_ $53T is a bullshit number, made up by a bunch of chicken little's
           who don't know how to do economic analysis.
           \_ A number from The United States Comptroller General for the past
              10 years is a bullshit number?
              \_ Sorry Republicans, no one is buying your BS anymore.
                 \_ Actually, for the past three decades, all those presidents
                    who brought up the debt w.r.t. GDP were Republicans, and
                    all those who brought it down were Democrats.
                    \_ But the first GBush's Read My Lips tax raise
                       was the cause of Clinton era's surplus. Don't
                       take credit without giving credit.
        \_ http://preview.tinyurl.com/2zfhkg
           "The problem with Medicare, Walker says, is people keep living
           longer, and medical costs keep rising at twice the rate of
           inflation. But instead of dealing with the problem, he says, the
           president and the Congress made things much worse in Dec. 2003,
           when they expanded the Medicare program to include prescription
           drug coverage."
           The real problem is that medical costs cannot continue to grow
           at 7%/yr without consuming the entire economy. Something that
           cannot happen will eventually stop growing, I am sure of that.
           cannot happen will not, I am sure of that.
2008/10/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:51441 Activity:high
10/8    Palin = Star Wars, Clinton = Star Trek:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/4xcgzj [io9]
        \_ Obama won his Senate race because of Star Trek, no joke.
           \_ How so?
              \_ The Illinois senator/incumbent/expected to win candidate
                 dropped out of the race after it became public his wife,
                 Jeri Ryan, divorced him because she got sick of him dragging
                 her to public sex clubs and him trying to nail her in front
                 of other people.  The Illinois Republican party couldn't
                 find anyone popular enough to run in his place... so they
                 invited Alan Keyes to move to Illinois and run for the empty
                 spot.  More people voted for Obama than Alan Keyes.
                 \_ You forgot that Obama sued to unseal their divorce records.
                  \_ No, the Chicago Tribune sued, on grounds that they were
                     unjustly sealed.  But why stop making shit up?
                     \_ He got his Obama and Liberal Media talking points
                        mixed up, you have to excuse him.
                 \_ Jeri Ryan as in 7 of 9? Wow.
                 \_ That's semi revisionist history going on.  Yes that all
                    happened, but my memory was it was a close race but
                    Obama was in the lead before the whole sexual scandal.
                    Also, Jack Ryan was not an incumbent.
                    \_ I can't tell reliably. I found a page by Michelle
                       Malkin about this subject. puke.
                 \_ People should be a little more understanding for someone
                    wanting to nail Jeri Ryan in public.
                    \_ I'd rather nail Jeri Thompson in public.
                       \_ I want her all to myself.
2008/10/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Academia/GradSchool] UID:51424 Activity:kinda low
10/8    http://tinyurl.com/4pyc3o
        The difficulty with the evaluating the Chicago Challenge is that
        Chicago schools improved dramatically overall during this study. There
        were already vast improvements happening within Chicago Schools when
        the Annenberg Grant came through. It was difficult to tell what
        improvements were the result of the challenge and what improvements
        were the result of other improvements already in play. The Chicago
        Challenge failed only in our inability to reach conclusions based on
        the data. Chicago's schools faired far better than the other cities
        studied (including Gulliani's New York). The fact is that the
        Challenge very well could have improved all Chicago schools. We simply
        can't know this for certain based on the research.
        \_ Now how is this related to Obama having weekly dinners with
           a domestic terrorist?
           \_ Weekly? Is there a legitimate source for this?
           \_ You are so cute when you foam at the mouth.
2008/9/25-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Finance/Banking] UID:51291 Activity:kinda low
9/25    In 1999 the Clinton administration pressured Fannie Mae "to expand
        mortgage loans among low and moderate income people."  The NYTimes
        warned "But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble
        in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that
        of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's."
        \_ This American Life has already found the culprits:
        \_ And in the same year, the LA times talked about how great it was
        \_ http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040809-9.html
        \_ Most non insane economists believe this month's troubles
           are from the crazy securitization of home mortgages, not the actual
           defaulted mortgages themselves.  I am not quite smart enough to tell
           if they are right.
           Here in NYC Michelle Malkin keeps ranting in the NY Daily News
           that its all the fault of illegal immigrants getting mortgages.
           \_ McCain should have picked Malkin as his Veep, at least she
              is articulate and no less batshit insane than Palin.
2008/9/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:51260 Activity:nil
9/22    why does the onion ALWAYS KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN
        \_ I think the CIA must be tipping them off or something.
           \_ Old joke: how do we know the CIA didn't kill Kennedy?
              Answer: He's dead, isn't he?
2008/9/20-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:51243 Activity:nil
9/20    "There isn't one grain of anything in the world that is sold in a free
        market. Not one! The only place you see a free market is in the
        speeches of politicians. People who are not in the Midwest do not
        understand that this is a socialist country."
           --Dwayne Orville Andreas, CEO of Archer Daniels Midland
2008/9/9-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:51113 Activity:nil
9/9     I am a democrat but my prediction is Obama will lose.  He's a
        better speech giver, but what exactly has he done? He can talk
        the talk but there's no proof that he has what it takes do to
        the job. He had a golden opportunity to pick Hillary as the VP
        to form the dream ticket. It would've shown to the outside
        world that he will unite force with competitors for the common
        good, and he can put aside criticisms in the past. The
        combined ticket will also benefit from advice and help from
        Bill Clinton, who bought us 8 great years before the current
        bush fuckup, and whom I and a lot of people highly respect.
        But no, his current pick shows his arrogance (who needs the
        Clintons), immaturity (pick a white dude with more experience
        but less well known), insecurity (Clintons will have different
        view from him so his job will be easier without the Clintons),
        and over estimating himself. He is a black person after all.
        While I have nothing against black people, wining the election
        as a black person will be quite a challenge in itself. He's
        not Collin Powell, he's just a young black dude with good
        speaking skill at a good opportunity, but has yet to prove
        himself. Will there be enough people that trust him?

        It was a very smart move for McCain to pick a female VP. You
        have a war hero with a woman VP to win those voters that
        supports woman in politics. Unfortunately this will be a much
        bigger percentage than the die hard Clinton supporters that
        will vote for Obama because they've got no choice. Personally
        I probably won't even vote. The only way Obama is going to win
        is if the country really got sick and tired of the Republican
        Party after 8 years and wants something different. If this is
        the only thing he's banking on then it's very risky.

        Let's just hope that the war trained McCain got more common
        senses than Bush does so it won't be that bad if McCain wins.
        \_ You know what?  You might be right that O could lose.  However,
           you're still an idiot.
        \_ I'm a decline-to-state who voted for Hilary in the primary and
           McCain in the 2000 primary. I've always (so far) voted Democrat
           in Presidential elections. I am not wild about Obama, but I
           don't think he will lose. I think the choice of Biden was a
           good one (Biden was my pick for President above Hilary, but
           dropped out before I voted). The Clintons are very polarizing,
           which is what I told my Democrat friends back when Hilary was
           running for the Senate. A lot of people love them, but a lot of
           people really hate them. I think their association hurt Al Gore
           and Bill didn't do Hilary any favors in this election. Obama was
           wise to avoid them. McCain isn't really loved by anyone, even
           Republicans, because he is a loose cannon and Palin's strength
           is in appealing to voters who weren't going to vote for Obama
           anyway. I guess it draws out Republicans who might have stayed
           home otherwise if that was an issue. I think a Biden/Obama ticket
           makes more sense than an Obama/Biden ticket. My main beef with
           Obama is that I still know almost nothing about him or his record.
           He's a very charismatic speaker which makes me nervous, because
           people like that can be convincing. That *can* be a plus, but I
           don't like that attribute when mixed with his status as a relative
           unknown. I like leaders with a track record.
           \_ That is basically the same thing The Economist said about him,
              that he needs to define himself better if he wants to win.
           \- the fact that sarah palin appeals to anyone is a deep condemnation
              of america. and why are you paraoid about barak's unknowns
              rather than palin's knowns and things mccain has said he would
              do [like further plutocratization]. between experience and
              somebody treating me with contempt ["alaska is on the border
           \- the fact that sarah palin appeals to anyone is a deep
              condemnation of america. and why are you paraoid about barak's
              unknowns rather than palin's knowns and things mccain has said
              he would do [like further plutocratization]. between experience
              and somebody treating me with contempt ["alaska is on the border
              with russia, thus ..."] and additionally there some some
              evidence obama is refelctive, unlike BUSHCO ... and may studies
              show often the incompetent are overly confident.
              \_ What does this say?  Does some one here speak illegible?
              \_ What does this say?  Does someone here speak illegible?
                 \_ It says your reading comprehension is low.
                    \_ or the author is writing to the wrong audience. Does
                       he/she want to be read and understood, or just seem
                       aloof and elitist.
                       \_ Man, I had always thought the elites would at least
                          use occasional capitalization.
                       \_ ...the wrong audience? This is the CSUA motd, not
                          freerepublic. Work that Cal degree, code monkey.
              \_ Where did I say that I like Palin at all let alone more
                 than Obama?
2008/9/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:51026 Activity:nil
9/3     Wait, wow, the lady who called Hillary Clinton a "whiner" for
        complaining of sexism is now crying "Sexism!"  Hilarious.. Awesome...
2008/8/28-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50989 Activity:nil
8/28    More Zombie: DNC giant puppet parade!
        \_ If you were a POW, you wouldn't be worried about silly parades!
        \_ you know, anyone who really thinks zombietime is interesting could
           go see his schtick themselves.
           \_ Sure, I could go hang around all day to watch some protestors,
              but I have better things to do.  This takes 5 min. in my compy
              office and is free.
              \_ I'm saying you don't need to post it to MOTD.
                 \_ Ok fine, but come on, giant puppet parade.  That bears
                    posting no matter who took the pictures.
2008/8/27-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50987 Activity:kinda low
8/27    Rising tide has not been lifting all boats:
        \_ dems, always wanting a handout from highly productive republicans
        \_ Look at all the whining people in the comments.  "Master's degrees
           from esteemed universities mean little ... journalism"  LAUGH.
           This article is stupid though: the data shows improvement from 2006
           to 2007 yet Krugman is talking about fantasyland 2000 numbers.
           \_ "These increases in earnings follow three years of annual
               decline in real earnings for both men and women."
        \_ Economics aren't important when you're a POW!
              \_ and?  do you think the 2000 economy was long term viable
                 and bush came in and screwed it up?
                 \_ Yes, I think Bush and the Republicans have been terrible
                    stewarts of the economy, don't you? The situation in 2000
                    was no where near as bad as what we have today.
                   \_ Which actions or nonactions can you put your finger on?
                      The NASDAQ crash was in March 2000.
                      DJIA crashed after 9/11/2001.
                      Why was 2000 so much better than today?
                      \_ Oh come on. How about a little problem like doubling
                         the national debt? Blowing $1T on a pointless war?
                         Giving a huge tax cut to his rich cronies, who of
                         course invested it (mostly overseas) instead of to
                         the middle class, who actually would have spent it,
                         boosting the economy. Adding a budget busting
                         drug benefit to Medicare, right when we could least
                         afford it. Should I go on?
                        \_ Yes but Democrats also voted for that pointless
                           war and continued to fund it.  (do you really
                           think the war was utterly pointless?)
                           Medicare drugs? McCain voted against it. Democrats
                           passed it.
                           My point, which I'm tired of having to bring up
                           repeatedly, is that you keep fingering Republicans
                           for things that both Republicans and Democrats did.
                           And yet you aren't independent.
                           It's partisan stupidity.
                           \_ A majority of Democrats voted against the war,
                              and also against the Bush tax cuts. You seriously
                              believe that Iraq isn't "Bush's War"? You are
                              delusional. All this happened with a GOP President
                              and a GOP Congress, so yes, they are the ones
                              responsible. I forgot another one: the whole
                              housing bubble/meltdown, which Bush encouraged
                              and failed to do anything about, when he should
                              have been regulating the IBs. No, I am not
                              independent. I used to be, but Bush convinced me
                              to join the Democratic Party.
                             \_ Bush should have regulated IBs? Don't you think
                                Congress has some responsibility there? What
                                exactly should they do? A whole lot of people
                                bought houses who shouldn't have. That's the
                                people's fault, just like the dot bomb.
                                What about the Greenspan and the Fed? Greenspan
                                was appointed by both R's and D's. Greenspan
                                admitted that the housing bubble was
                                engendered by the decline in real long-term
                                interest rates"
                                Why do you ignore what happened in 2000/2001?
                                Where do you think the blame lay there? Bush
                                again? We have had a Democrat Congress since
                                2006 and they have done pretty much nothing
                                different.  Furthermore there were no Democrat
                                initiatives addressing the housing bubble.
                                \_ 2000/1 is mostly the responsibility of
                                   Bill Clinton. It is the Executive branches
                                   responsibility to control the money supply,
                                   all those fools would not have bought houses
                                   if the Fed and the Treasury Dept had not
                                   been asleep at the switch when the IBs
                                   created all the unregulated money. It would
                                   have been easy for them to turn off the tap,
                                   they just believed that the "invsible hand"
                                   would sort it out. The Democrats have had
                                   how many bills blocked or vetoed since 2006?
                                   The GOP had six years of total power and
                                   they fucked it up. Why are you making
                                   excuses for them? Greenspan is a Randoid
                                   from way back, in no way shape or form
                                   is he a Democrat, nor believe in any kind
                                   of liberal policy framework.
                                   \_ Laugh! Clinton appointed him too.
                                      You tell me how many relevant bills were
                                      blocked or vetoed. Bush only has 12
                                      vetoes so those should be easy for you.
                                      I'm not making
                                      excuses for the R's.  IMO the real
                                      problems are ignored by both parties
                                      and people like you.  (e.g the Fed)
                                      Obama talks about change but he is not
                                      effectively different from any mainstream
                                      \_ I am not going to try and explain the
                                         very complicated topic of bank
                                         regulation here, but suffice to say
                                         that the Executive alone, via the
                                         FDIC and the OCC has a huge influence
                                         on the money supply. Clinton was pretty
                                         much a moderate, true, but he was still
                                         a much, much better stewart of the
                                         economy than Bush. Obama will reverse
                                         the worst Bush tax cuts and also end
                                         the Iraq War, if nothing else, that
                                         will improve our fiscal deficit. He
                                         is also talking about a middle class
                                         tax cut and infrastructure spending,
                                         which shold help the economy more. No,
                                         you won't get a revolution from either
                                         party in America, people are too
                                         complacent here to want that. And
                                         surely you know the rest of the
                                         Greenspan quote you pulled from
                                         wikipedia, where he stated that asset
                                         markets put credit control out of the
                                         Fed's hands.
                                         \_ Which is obviously false. Greenspan
                                            of course wants to duck
                                            I like the Bush tax cuts. I just
                                            hate the Bush/Congressional
                                            The Iraq War is going to end up
                                            about the same, Obama or not.
                                            I don't want more gov't spending,
                                            I want less.  Middle class tax cut?
                                            Maybe if you redefine middle class.
                                            \_ Every family maing under $150k/yr
                                               That isn't middle class to you?
2008/8/13-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50861 Activity:nil
8/13    So are the Bush-loving GOPers:
        \_ You have some evidence that the shooter likes Bush or is GOP?
        \_ You have some evidence that the shooter liked Bush or was GOP?
        \_ "Gwatney owned three Little Rock area car dealerships and the search
           of Johnson's home turned up two sets of keys for vehicles from
           Gwatney car lots."
           You dumbass, he was just a twistoid.
           \_ Actually a Democratic donor:
              Look he gave money to Bill Clinton! Can we add him to the Clinton
              Death List?
2008/7/15-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50579 Activity:nil
7/15    How the government cooks economic statistics (great article by
        Kevin Phillips)
        \- YMWTGF(cambridge forum kevin philips)
2008/7/14-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50568 Activity:nil
7/14    The Fox Newsification of AP:
2008/7/8-11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:50498 Activity:nil
7/8     Economic data fudging by the government:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/5ol574 [madconomist.com]
        \_ I liked this: Soviet Collapse Lessons
           \_ I liked this one as well.
        \_ Where does this site come from?
2008/7/5-10 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50475 Activity:high
7/4     Jesse Helms is dead. Too bad he didn't die in pain: maybe
        God is Conservative afterall. At least he gave America a good
        present on this 231st birthday of ours.
                          \_ 232nd. And thanks for showing the example of all
                             that is wrong with politics today.
                             \_ I'm not a fan of cheering death, but I'm
                                willing to make an exception for someone
                                as dispicable as Jesse Helms.  It is at
                                times like this when I wished I believed in
                                \_ Yay, you rejoice in someone's death because
                                   of their different opinion!
                                   \_ No, Helms was a monster.  Do you think
                                      we should be respectful of Saddam
                                      Hussein too?  Sometimes the world is
                                      better off without people. !pp
                                      \_ Ooh!  The new godwin.  Helms didn't
                                         dip people in vats of acid for fun.
                                         \_ He would have if he'd gotten away
                                            with it.  Look, this asshole made
                                            life really difficult for a lot
                                            of people simply just because he
                                            hated them.  His passing is a
                                            blessing, and the world is
                                            better off without him.  Sorry,
                                            but it's the truth.  Your moral
                                            relativism isn't welcome here.
                                            \_ Yah, you're right, a legislator
                                               who has opinions you disagree
                                               with is just as bad as a
                                               murderous dictator!
                                               \_ Helms fought hard to make
                                                  federal funds for needle
                                                  exchanges illegal.  Because
                                                  of him needle addicts in
                                                  this country have
                                                  attrociously high AIDS
                                                  rates.  In most other
                                                  countries public health
                                                  was considered more important
                                                  and the governemnts made
                                                  needle exchange programs
                                                  a priority as soon as the
                                                  dangers were apparent.  Hell
                                                  even Thather realized that
                                                  was important. Forgetting
                                                  Helms rampant racism and
                                                  homopobia, his close
                                                  friendship with Pinochet
                                                  (so close the FBI were pretty
                                                  sure Helms tipped Pinochet
                                                  off when the CIA were going
                                                  after him), that alone
                                                  makes him a horrid little
                                                  man.  Helms wasn't just
                                                  a politician I disagreed
                                                  with, he was an evil man.
                                                  Fuck him, his death was
                                                \_ Why is it the government's
                                                   job to fund needle
                                                   Why didn't you fund them
                                                   Needle sharers getting AIDS
                                                   have only themselves to
                                                   blame. Or maybe you.
                                                   \_ It's the government's job
                                                      to try to contain
                                                      epidemics.  Needle
                                                      exchange is cheap and
                                                      effective and a no
                                                      brainer.  And even if
                                                      you think all junkies
                                                      should just die, they
                                                      will spread AIDS to
                                                      others.  Oh, and
                                                      fuck you.
                                                      \_ AIDS does not meet the
                                                         criteria for an
                                                         epidemic spread, it
                                                         meets the spread
                                                         criteria for an
                                                         occupational disease
                                                         (like black lung).
                                                         But you know, don't
                                                         let facts get in the
                                                         way. In fact, the
                                                         handling of black
                                                         lung is a good model
                                                         for how we should be
                                                         handling AIDS.
                                                         -- ilyas
                                                         \_ "facts," eh?
                                                            According to
                                        How stupid are you?  I am not claiming
                                        HIV doesn't cause AIDS, I am claiming
                                        AIDS does not behave like an epidemic
                                        disease, it behaves like an occupational
                                        disease. -- ilyas
                                        \_ According to who?

                                                      \_ A disease that isn't
                                                         communicated except by
                                                         sticking needles in
                                                         yourself or having sex
                                                         isn't an epidemic.
                                                         \_ Or by being raped,
                                                            or by being born
                                                            to a woman who is
                                                            HIV+, and some
                                                            people don't have
                                                            any choice about
                                                            needles being
                                                            stuck into them,
                                                            such as in
                                                            hemophilia and
                                                            accidental health
                                                            care related
                                                           \_ Needle exchs
                                                              won't stop that.
                                                              Do you have proof
                                                              it would? These
                                                              people do not
                                                              give a fuck. If
                                                              it's not needles
                                                              they'll probably
                                                              have u.sex.  I do
                                                              think govt should
                                                              probably just let
                                                              people acquire
                                                              supplies legally,
                                                              and drugs too
                                                              actually, in a
                                                              structured way
                                                              to try to neuter
                                                              drug gangs.
                                           Preventing public health  _/
                                           epidemics is one of THE most
                                           things government does.  Cheap,
                                           painless, effective prevention
                                           should always be prioritized over
                                           moralizing about personal choices.
                                           Yes, the government should try
                                           to prevent addiction, however
                                           the reality is there are addicts,
                                           and those addicts are getting AIDS
                                           via needles.  It took over a decade
                                           for enough states to start needle
                                           sharing for it to make a difference
                                           where if there wasn't the HELMS
                                           AMENDMENT (see it even has his name)
                                           we could have had serious needle
                                           exchange programs within a year.
                                           Programs that would have paid for
                                           themselves 1000x times over in
                                           almost no time by preventing
                                           expensive AIDS care and loss of
                                                              \_ right, because
                                                                 the solution
                                                                 to every
                                                                 problem which
                                                                 confronts our
                                                                 society is
                                                                 We get it.
                                           \_ AIDS via needle sharing is not
                                              a public health epidemic.
                                              Isn't it paradoxical to have
                                              criminalized drug use and yet
                                              on the other hand support them
                                              with a needle exchange program?
                                              I'd rather just legalize it
                                              \_ legalizing it would make
                                                 the public health problem
                                                 and the need for needle
                                                 exchange problems even more
                                                 acute.  -tom
                                                 \_ No, because right now you
                                                    can't get needles legally.
                                                    They need to share needles
                                                    because they don't have
                                                    enough needles because the
                                                    government prevents them
                                                    from getting them without
                                                    a prescription. So now
                                                    you want a government
                                                    program to let people
                                                    exchange the needles they
                                                    do (illegally) have which
                                                    doesn't increase the # of
                                                    needles (and requires
                                                    participants to expose
                                                    themselves to arrest.
                                                    If you make them exchange
                                                    1 for 1, then they'll still
                                                    share. If you don't, then
                                                    you'll get used needles
                                                    being littered around.
                                                    The focus should be
                                                    on safe practices to
                                                    prevent nurses from
                                                    infecting themselves,
                                                    safe sex, finding an
                                                    actual cure, and getting
                                                    people off injection drugs.
                                                    Legalized drug distribution
                                                    in safe forms might help.
                                                    \_ Thank you, Ron Paul.
                                                       Now, back on planet
                                                       Earth...  -tom
                                                       \_ hush tom, the
                                                          grownups are talking.
                             \_ Jesse Helms was one of the leaders of our
                                own home-grown Taliban.  The world is better
                                off without him.  Here are some choice
        \_ Sully got it right: May he rest in the peace he so wanted to deny
           to so many others.
2008/6/25-30 [Finance/Banking, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50374 Activity:nil
6/25    I'm not a big clinton hater but why is Obama asking his supporters to
        help her pay off her campaign debt?  Her husband pulls in literally
        100s of millions a year from speaking fees, why don't they just pay it
        off themselves and move on?
        \_ Or why doesn't Obama pay Hillary to do some stops for him out of
           his massive not-publicly-funded warchest?
           \_ So do you not care that McCain signed up for public financing
              in order to get loans backed by that money back when he wasn't
              sure he'd win the primary but then when once he won he said
              oh wait, I'm going to back out of that public financing thing
              haha, wait did I legally agree to do public financing.  Well
              fuck that.  I'm not!
           \_ Well first of all that wouldn't be legal...
           \_ dunno.  I really don't think Hillary is funded by $$ concerns.
              \- First, the amount BCLINTON has access to is slightly
                 exaggerated. Let's say 10s of million. Second, to some
                 extent apparently helping with this kind of debt is to
                 some extent "standard practice". Third, particularly given
                 #2, it would probably have been "easier" to agree to it
                 than risk the lying and untrustoworthy Clinton people
                 making hay out of it (again, the inside story is the Obama
                 people are constantly worried about what the Clintons might
                 have up their sleave). Fourth, we'll see to what extent he's
                 just going through the motions. I agree Hillary has some
                 fucking gall to ask any body the exceptionally rich to do
                 this ... but there are some weird legal issues covering your
                 ability to raise funds for a campaign which is no longer
                 really in effect.
                 \_ Why don't you sign your name?
                    \_ The psb needs not sign his name.  --psb #3 fan
2008/6/23-24 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50335 Activity:nil
6/23    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/opinion/20brooks.html
         "And then on Thursday, Fast Eddie Obama had his finest hour. Barack
        Obama has worked on political reform more than any other issue. He
        aspires to be to political reform what Bono is to fighting disease in
        Africa. He.s spent much of his career talking about how much he
        believes in public financing. In January 2007, he told Larry King that
        the public-financing system works. In February 2007, he challenged
        Republicans to limit their spending and vowed to do so along with them
        if he were the nominee. In February 2008, he said he would aggressively
        pursue spending limits. He answered a Midwest Democracy Network
        questionnaire by reminding everyone that he has been a longtime
        advocate of the public-financing system.
         "But Thursday, at the first breath of political inconvenience, Fast
        Eddie Obama threw public financing under the truck. In so doing, he
        probably dealt a death-blow to the cause of campaign-finance reform.
        And the only thing that changed between Thursday and when he lauded the
        system is that Obama's got more money now."
        \_ "Fast Eddie Obama"? David Brooks has valid points. Shame he's got
           such a hard-on for a Heritage Foundation sinecure.
2008/6/16-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50269 Activity:nil
6/16    I think it's pretty funny that the very first line on the Obama smear
        fighting page is itself a lie.
        \_ Don't you feel like giving obama's baby mamma a terrorist fist
           jab or something?
        \_ Parsed like a true Bill Clinton, my friend!
        \_ Yeah, Rush Limbaugh is my hero, too.
2008/6/10-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50219 Activity:nil
6/10    Oops.  More problems with Obama's friends.
        \_ Heh, nice comment from JA on the page about Bsuh Obama similarity.
        \_ Did you ever figure out who killed Vince Foster?
2008/6/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50139 Activity:low
6/3     Clinton 'open' to joining Obama
        \_ That would be pretty funny if this happened and then Obama was pres
           but then died somehow and then HRC was president.
           \_ At least we would know that it wasn't the Ku Klux Klan who
              assasinated Obama.  http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/?c=117&a=1227
              \_ Why do dumb people keep thinking they are as clever as the
                 \_ Chill out.  The Daily Squib is the UK-equivalent of The
                    Onion.  -- PP
2008/6/3-4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50132 Activity:nil
6/2     Bo Diddley, dead:
2008/6/3 [Politics/Domestic/HateGroups, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50124 Activity:nil
6/2     Obama is willing to ditch his own church in order to win the election.
        How faithful.
        \_ After hanging out with the Klan for 20 years, he decides it's
           politically expedient to leave.
           \_ Yeah, the Klan.  That's right.  What an apt analogy.  I mean
              it's SO obvious.
              \_ You're right. It's just as racist, but doesn't physically harm
                 people.  ^the Klan^his co-racists
                 \_ The crazy is strong in this one.
        \_ Didn't we beat this horse a few day ago?
        \_ Give it up, you have already lost the election. Prepare yourself
           for at least four years and probably eight years of being in the
           \_ Obama is going to implode, trust me.
              \_ Why should I trust you? What other predictions have you made
                 that were on the mark?
                 \_ Well, it looks to me like he's already imploding.  Obama!
                    The only guy who could lose to the R's in '08! -!pp
                    \_ What the hell are you talking about?  Are you the
                       person who thinks Obama wants to rape all the white
                       \_ I don't remember THAT post on the motd. -pp
                    \_ http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm
                       \_ That's a very strange def of imploding
2008/5/31-6/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50103 Activity:kinda low
5/30    Clinton is winning Puerto Rico.  YES.
        \- i wouldnt dismisss the PA results but the PR results are
           totally meaningless ... Clinton is basically the Senator
           from Puerto Rico:
           Either you are being sarcastic or ...
           Your brain has been classified as: poco.
        \_ Are you a MCCain supporter or a Hillary supporter?
           Why wont you sign your name?  Are you embarrassed to be a
           Hillary supporter?
           \_ I'll just use your name. -- psb
           \_ Why won't YOU sign your name? -jrleek (!pp !op)
              \- i have been an strong obama supporter since Feb
                 [i was out of the country before that and pretty much
                 assumed hillary the liar would win, so i didnt develop
                 any strong opinions and just ruminated on mccain vs
                 clinton]. i also think it is reasonable to have many
                 anonymous conversation on the motd ["where can i get
                 a good sandwich in berkeley"] but for threaded
                 discussion, anonymity makes it hard to know if you are
                 talking to the same person ... so i jokingly
                 suggested signing with a hash of your name. are there
                 *any* soda motd/wall participants willing to publicly
                 say "i support hillary clinton". there are people
                 publicly willing to take different sides on the iraq
                 war, gun control, gaylordism, drug legalization, the
                 housing crisis/financial regulation, and i believe
                 there are some mccain supporters, but how come no
                 hillary supporters are willing to name themselves?
                 is it more socially awkward to admit to being a hillary
                 supporter than to talk about your love of p0rn, as numerous
                 sloda people are willing to discuss [wang, holob, the asp],
                 or again does it say something about the lack of confidence
                 and general insecurity of hillary fans?
                 or am i mistaken about this? i am prepared to respond
                 to "you are a naive fool for voting for somebody with
                 no experience". i can also understand "i have no
                 interest in discussing politics on sloda" ... in
                 which case why the craven crowing [i assume OP is a
                 hillary supporter not a mccain person]. by they way,
                 i certainly can understand your being embarrassed to be
                 a hillary supporter, so i dont expect you to announce
                 yourself. i am just curious if you are embarrassed.
                 for example i've written lots of one off sloppy code
                 and i'm embarrassed to show it to people if that comes
                 up. so i certainly understand when another colleague
                 is sheepish about sharing something done at a low quality.
                 but it is a different matter when somebody shares something
                 and has no clue it is crap and has no sense of knowing better
                 and the attendant reticence. --psb
                 \_ I was being funny.  I cannot think of anyone who seriously
                    still believes Hillary can win the nomination.  It was a
                    good fight.  It's interesting that Obama is really not
                    winning a giant landslide of pledged delegates, but I guess
                    in delegate races we often get these really close contests.
                 \_ Why do you support Obama? -emarkp
                    \_ how can you NOT support Obama?  McCain wants us in
                       Iraq for the next 500 years, he seriously believes
                       that the Iraq conflict is exactly like us assisting
                       peace loving Germans, Japanese, Koreans, Puerto
                       Ricans, Hawaiians, have I left out any of our other
                       successful military occupations of this century?
                       \_ Those are reasons to *not* support McCain.  I see
                          nothing to recommend Obama. -emarkp
                       \_ "I do not want to keep our troops in Iraq a minute
                          longer than necessary to secure our interests
                          there." - jmccain
                          What you're saying is a blatant mischaracterization.
                          McCain wants the mission to be completed. Do you
                          think it would take 500 years?
                    \- Obama treats people seriously ... I've been impressed
                       with his "big speeches" [post-Rev Wright race speech]
                       and smaller stuff [the way he handled a stupid reporter
                       when he left the Trinity Church over the weekend].
                       I also believe "character matters". In ths case his
                       democratic opposition, Hillary Clinton, is a lying,
                       sleazy, sanctimoious hypocrite. Policy obviously matters
                       as well, an on those grounds, I'm worried about McCain
                       and "plutocraticzation" ... note: I've long liked
                       I also believe "character matters". In this case his
                       democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, is a lying,
                       sleazy,sanctimonious hypocrite. Policy obviously matters
                       as well. On those grounds, I'm worried about McCain
                       and "plutocratization" ... note: I've long liked
                       and "plutocraticzation" ... note: I've long liked
                       McCain -- for reasons I wont go into -- I put a fair
                       amount of weight on his VN story and a few other
                       things ... but his recent pandering [gas tax] is a
                       little disturbing. We also have to forgive some
                       campaign time pandering, but I've again been impressed
                       with Obama relatively good record on this [ok some
                       on trade, but 1. there are issues there 2. at least
                       he treated people like adults on the gas tax] and in
                       contrast Clinton the liar has gone over the top
                       denouncing the enter science and profession of
                       economics. Also on McCain, I'm less sure than many a
                       precipitous withdrawal from Iraq is a good idea ...
                       not because of the terrorism issue, but I think the
                       US has responsibilities to prevent a Rwanda-like
                       slaughter there, so they need to factor that in to
                       their calculations, not "only" minimizing US casualties.
                       I am not a Lawrence Lessig Fanboy ... I had never gone
                       to his WOB site before this ... but his 20min PPoint
                       on "Why I'm for Barak" is a good statement of "my
                       I strongly encourge people to watch the first one.
                       I'll skip re-interating Hillary's list of Unbelievable
                       Cockroach moves.
                       I'll skip reiterating Hillary's list of Unbelievable
                       Cockroach Moves. Sure some Obama supporters are
                       shallow youth just going along for trendy-ish reasons,
                       but he seems to have gotten a disproportionate amount
                       of the supprt of "serious adults" with a good record
                       of being smart and principled, e.g. Prof deLong and
                       Senator GOPAT. Which Hillary endorser are you impressed
                       with? Eva Longoria? Look at their endorsements page
                       on Wikipedia. Paul Krugman's endorsement tant him,
                       and doesnt help her [like his apologia about her gas
                       tax stance saying "it's not a big deal" ... missing
                       the point he is obvously aware of that it's what
                       it says about her, not the policy issue ... if a friend
                       of your steals $5 from your wallet when you are in
                       the bathroom, is that "not a big deal"?].
                       \_ Any particular policy of his you like?
                          \- put somethng on the table, if you want an answer.
                          \- put something on the table, if you want an answer.
                             \_ Huh? -emarkp
                          \_ No one knows what the mission is.  Unless you're
                             talking about McCain's fantasy of Iraq becoming
                             a warm friendly place where an American soldier
                             can walk down the street unarmed and only fear
                             being pelted with delightly spring begonias, and
                             THEN we'll leave.
                             \- Peace with Honor.
                             \_ There you go again. Do you honestly believe
                                that? If you're gonna try to discuss things
                                like an adult then you shouldn't exaggerate.
                                Reality should be enough. The mission is
                                to safeguard the security of the new Iraqi
                                state:  "John McCain believes it is
                                strategically and morally essential for the
                                United States to support the Government of Iraq
                                to become capable of governing itself and
                                safeguarding its people."  "Our goal is an Iraq
                                that no longer needs American troops."
                                \_ iraqi state is artificial construct.
                                   Cheney is secretly an Iranian Shiite
                                   cleric.  We should just pack up and leave
                                   Iraq, we have messed up beyond any
                                   reasonable doubt.
                                \_ McCain has changed his mind about half a
                                   dozen times on what "The Mission" is, so he
                                   is not to be trusted. What is the goal this
                                   \_ Interesting. What were the 6 different
                                      \_ The war will be easy. -2002
                                         The war will be hard. -2003
                                         We should not leave a permanent force.
                                         We should stay 100 years. -2008
                                         We should make Iraq a democracy. -2006
                                         We should make Iraq stable. -2007
                                         \_ next goal will be 'we cant leave
                                            Iraq because then Iran will just
                                            roll on in and annex it,
                                            thereby controlling over half of
                                            the world's remaining oil.' by
                                            then i'll probably agree.  good
                                            work, BushCo. - sad liberal.
2008/5/31-6/2 [Politics/Domestic/HateGroups, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50102 Activity:low
5/31    Obama resigns from controversial church
        Ha ha!
        \_ I thought he disavowed Wright long ago?
           \_ He disavowed Wright a few weeks (month?) back, but Wright
           \_ He disabowed Wright a few weeks (month?) back, but Wright
              had actually retired as Pastor before that.  So Obama was
              still a member of the church under a different pastor.
        \_ ...after a white Roman Catholic priest, acting as a guest
           pastor, delivered a racially charged sermon. Yes, kids,
           truth is stranger than fiction.
        \_ After hanging out with the Klan for 20 years, he decides it's
           politically expedient to leave.
2008/5/29-6/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50092 Activity:nil
5/29    The press wasn't nearly as nice when the book that came out was
        criticizing Clinton.
        \_ One story is exactly the same as the other!  Everthing is a vast
           conspiracy!  8 years ago was yesterday!  The press wants Bush
           to fail!
        \_ Where is the Time story covering McClellan's book? What?
           You mean there isn't one? Why is that???
2008/5/26-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50053 Activity:nil
5/25    Even the AP is has noticed the Obama is just making up his policy
        as he goes along.
        \_ you're an idiot.
           \_ A stunning argument!  The opposition can make no response!
              \_ Masturbation's a one-player game.
                 \_ Oh, you may carry on with it then, but please stop
                    jizzing all over the motd.
                    \_ Freeper: the sound of one hand fapping.
        \_ http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2021273/posts
           \_ The Hugo Chavez one is kinda 'meh' since he could be saying that
              Chavez's power increased due to Bush's negligence.
              I think it's pretty obvious he hasn't thought through his
              position on things like FARC tho'.
2008/5/26-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50052 Activity:nil 74%like:50050
5/25    Obama's gaffes are really starting to pile up.
        That link is a little silly, it suggests Obama is on drugs, I
        just posted it for the accurate list of mistakes it starts out with.
        \_ obama would have to rape a white woman on The View to lose
           the nomination now.
        \_ Obama's expertise in MIND CONTROL clearly indicates he is a
           North Korean agent:
                "barack set me up!"
           I think HillBill are trying to bait Obama into describing her
           as a "hysterical bitch"/"psycho ex-girlfriend of the democratic
           party" so all the menopausal bitter women will vote for her.
        \_ Are you a super-delegate? Do you think there are any on the
           motd? Who are you trying to convince?
           \_ Wha?  Are we not allowed to discuss canidates for POTUS on the
              motd now?
              \_ You had something to discuss here? I thought your point
                 was to further smears and distort fact into sensation.
                 What did I miss?
                 \_ 10,000 dead in Kansas!
        \_ What do you expect from a KNOWN CRYPTO-MARXIST?
        \_ What do you expect from a known Marxist?
2008/5/23-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50042 Activity:low
5/23    "With the news this morning that Bill Clinton and other
        Hillary Clinton supporters are openly pushing for Barack Obama
        to choose Hillary as his running mate, it has become apparent
        that the Clinton camp is going through the stages of the
        K├╝bler-Ross model of coping with death or tragedy."
        \_ now in "bargaining"?  -tom
        \_ I think Hilary wants $20M.  --PeterM
           \_ $31M at last count.
        \_ "That's a nice black candidate you got there.  It would be a shame
           if something were to happen to him..." -- ilyas
2008/5/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:50025 Activity:low
5/22    Bill Gross on underreporting the CPI and what it means for
        the little investor:
        \_ http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/004721.php
        \_ http://www.isil.org/towards-liberty/inflation-gov-lies.html
        \_ http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=59409
           \_ Ah so it started with the Carter administration. See,
              Democraps are evil!
              \_ It actually started with Clinton, but that doesn't change
                 your basic premise. Politicians of both parties lie all
                 the time.
        \_ LIES. The Bureau of Labor Statistics doesn't lie. The
           government doesn't lie. Why would it lie?
       \_ Ron Paul has been saying this for years and people say he's
          some sort of crazy racist.
          \_ Non sequitur often?
             \_ Oh it's sequitous. Here these directly question CPI:
                \_ What does race have to do with inflation?
          \_ Ron Paul IS a crazy racist, irrespective of what he has to
             say about the CPI.
2008/5/20-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50015 Activity:nil
5/20    Here's my recollection of the final candidates in presidential
        elections of which I have memory:
        1980:   Jimmy Carter vs. Ronald Reagan
        1992:   George Bush vs. Bill Clinton
        2000:   George W. Bush vs. Al Gore
        2004:   George W. Bush vs. John Kerry
        2008:   Hillary Clinton vs. Barack Obama (With the media coverage, it
                sure feels that way.)
        \_ Do a lot of drugs such that you missed so many?
           \_ I don't always remember the losing candidate.  Besides, I wasn't
              in this country until 1989 when I was 19.  Oh, I just recalled
              one more losing candidate called "Dukakis" or something, but I
              forgot which year it was.  Maybe 1996?  BTW Ross Perot doesn't
              \_ So, basically, your recollection is worthless. We should
                 pay attention to you why?
                 \_ No reason.  BTW I could've filled in the gaps by STFW, but
                    that wouldn't be from memory.
              \_ You don't remember Bob Dole? I guess he was pretty forgettable.
              \_ You don't remember Bob Dole? I guess he was pretty
2008/5/16-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:49979 Activity:nil
5/1     Huckabee's lame Obama joke
        \_ He might have been referring to this:
           http://preview.tinyurl.com/4fvb83 [democratic underground]
2008/5/14-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49942 Activity:nil
5/14    If you don't vote for Obama you're a racist
        \_ The author didn't even recognize Obama is not exactly, to borrow
           his phrase, "black American".
           \_ Really? He's not American? He's not black?
              \_ He wasn't raised as an American during his formative years.
2008/5/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49911 Activity:nil 80%like:49897 Entry has been invalidated. Access denied.
2008/5/7-9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49897 Activity:nil 80%like:49911
5/6     Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks
2008/5/3-8 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49880 Activity:moderate
5/2     Hillary: Let's cut gas tax!
        Blue Collar: Yay!
        McCain: Let's cut gas tax!
          \_ McCain proposed it, Hillary agreed.
        Blue Collar: Yay!
        Obama: Gas tax break will increase demand and the cost of gasoline
                in the long run. Besides, it is not sustainable and not
                a long term solution.
                \- For an short term inelastic demand good, the price will
                   be set by the demand, and if you drap the tax, that
                   will convert consumer surplus into windfall profits.
                   This is like an Econ 1 midterm question.
                   \_ What about if demand is elastic?
                      \- a full discusson of this is beyond the scope
                         of the motd. a fuller discussion involves
                         questions of "is it movement along the demand
                         curve" or "is it a shift of the agg demand curve".
                         also the view w.r.t. to oil is supply is also
                         constrained due to refining capacity being maxed
                         out, but this is complicated by the possibility
                         of drawing down inventory stocks. but what really
                         makes this complicated is the "clean theory"
                         assums competive markets [prce takers, marginal
                         cost pricing]. the theory of monopol is also
                         "clean" but the world we are probably in w.r.t.
                         to oil is oligopoly ... and that isnt a "clean"
                         theory ... anyway, let's leave it at that.
        Big Oil:  We'll just raise your cost to match whatever price difference
                  the temporary lack of tax would create, and pocket the
                  the money.  HA
        Blue Collar: FUCK YOU!
        \_ I think you underestimate the Blue Collar in this country. -raised BC
        \_ I think you underestimate the Blue Collar in this country. -raised
              \_ That was BC in 2002. What do you think it is like today?
                 \_ McCain served in the armed forces and was patriotic.
                    VOTE FOR MCCAIN, FIGHT TERRORISTS!          -BC
                    \_ Kerry had a rather more distinguished record of service
                       compared to Bush, and look how that went.
                       \_ SWIFT BOAT LIES!                      -BC
                    \_ No, now it is more like MY GAS COSTS TOO MUCH. @#$%! BUSH
                    \_ No, now it is more like MY GAS COSTS TOO MUCH.
                       @#$%! BUSH
                       AND ALL THOSE POLITICIANS IN DC!
        \_ The gas companies don't care what the tax rate is.  There is more
           gasoline sitting in storage in the US right now than there has been
           for years.  Current prices have little to do with the gas tax or
           a healthy functioning market.  For starters, states like CA should
           get together with nearby states and use the same formula for gas.
           That would create a larger market of the same product and yield
           a more stable price as well as lower prices over all.  Strengthen
           the dollar.  Since oil prices are effectively keyed to the value
           of the dollar, as the dollar decreases oil prices *must* increase.
           This isn't even Econ 1 type stuff.
           \- Hillary Clinton has decided to ignore "so called experts"
              and "history" and "the facts" ... 'cause she's The Deciderette.
              Hmm, now who does that sound like? "Trust me ... I'm experienced,
              compassonate, tough, have what it takes, can swiftboat somebody
              when I need to ..."
2008/5/3-8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49879 Activity:nil
5/3     The Clinton's Karl Rove:
2008/4/25-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49835 Activity:nil
4/25    The first black president of the US: Bill Clinton
2008/4/16-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49766 Activity:nil
4/16    Hillary Clinton on working class democrats in 1995: "Screw 'em."
        \_ Is HRC a typical white person?
2008/4/16-23 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49762 Activity:nil
4/16    Funny (and yes, totally biased, I get it, mmmmmkay) guide to
        conservative blogosphere
        \_ "I even got my own Tom Tomorrow cartoon! The jagged yellow spikes
           must be caused by all of that evil."
           \_ Epic fail.
2008/4/12-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49741 Activity:nil
4/11    Hillary Clinton's shameless pandering in response to Obama 'bitter'
2008/4/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49727 Activity:kinda low
4/11    So we now know that Ds not only want a minimum wage, but a maximum as
        well.  Would that apply to the Clintons?
        \_ Well obviously.  What are they doing making over $10 an hour?
        \_ What the hell are you blathering about?  You might want to increase
           the dosage on your medication.
           \_ google 'obama CEO pay'
              \_ I see that he says that shareholders should set CEO pay.
                 Don't you agree?
                 \_ I don't see what leglislators have to do with it, or what
                    requiring publicly traded companies to have shareholders
                    make a nonbinding resolution would accomplish.
                    \_ Legislators are allowed to have opinions, too. In fact,
                       they are often expected to have opinions about
                       controversial topics of the day, like CEO compensation.
                       Repeal the First Amendment if that disturbs you so much.
2008/4/9-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49693 Activity:nil
4/8     Jews cannot afford to not support Obama
        This is an interesting thing to find on Obama site...
        \_ There's some good lines in there:
           "[The Clintons] should retire because their brains are old and dried
           up and devoid of any new and fresh ideas."
        \_ ERROR: invalid page requested
           \_ Aww, they took it down.  (It's been up for a month.) I googled
              around and found another copy on craigslist of all places
        \_ http://my.barackobama.com is a social network.  Any loser can create a
           page there - the campaign can't police all the content there.
           Just like any other social network that's full of both good and
           crappy content.  Get over your feigned outrage.
           \_ I know that.  I'm not outraged at all. This is a pretty good
              example of a poorly thought out and managed political
              strategy though.  Plus, this rant is funny.
              \_ Yeah, the rant is funny.  Do you think the social network
                 is a poorly thought out campaign strategy?  From what I can
                 tell, he's raising unprecedented amounts of cash and
                 getting huge numbers of volunteers.
                 \_ I don't really think that's related to his own social
                    networking site, although I could be wrong.  digg and
                    dailykos are serving the same purpose for him.  Having
                    his own offical social networking/blog site allows nut-
                    cases to post wocky stuff that looks official.
2008/3/30-4/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:49613 Activity:nil
3/28    Finally, the Clinton Death Spiral?  Obama up 10 pts in Gallup tracking
        poll for first time
        \_ And McCain still up on both. (Barely.)
          \_ Not a problem once the democrats have a decisive choice.  Voter
             turnout in the primaries had the 2nd place democratic candidate
             often beating the sum total of all republican votes so I think
             the presidential will pretty much be decided by the Clinton/
             Obama choice.
             \_ Are there any numbers from previous elections that equate
                higher primary turnout with general election victory?  Are
                you taking into account the huge number of cross over voters
                this year who voted strategically?  Are you counting the number
                of people in both C and O camps who said they would stay home
                or vote for M if their candidate didn't get the nomination?
                \_ I don't think he was counting anything.  His statement was
                   more of a statement of faith than anything else. -!pp
2008/3/26-28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49575 Activity:nil 83%like:49569
3/25    This picture pretty much speaks for itself
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/yst66p [national review]
2008/3/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49569 Activity:nil 83%like:49575
3/25    This picture pretty much speaks for itself
2008/3/25-28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49562 Activity:nil 78%like:49560
3/25    Hillary channels Rush Limbaugh
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/2rwf8r [Pittsburg Tribune-Review]
        A major donor of hers goes even further:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/yqyk5q [tpm]
        \_ She's just a typical white person.
           \_ And you're a typical troll, wee!
        \_ Rush Limbaugh doesn't appear on either link.  WTH are you talking
2008/3/25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49560 Activity:nil 78%like:49562
3/25    Hillary channels Rush Limbaugh
        A major donor of hers goes even further:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/yqyk5q [tpm]
        \_ She's just a typical white person.
           \_ And you're a typical troll, wee!
        \_ Rush Limbaugh doesn't appear on either link.  WTH are you talking
2008/3/25-28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49559 Activity:nil
3/25    Obama is Dubya's cousin!
        \_ Nth cousin means "is human" and not much else.
2008/3/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49555 Activity:low
3/24    CBS has picked up the Hillary/Bosnia snafu
        \- ^snafu^lie
        \_ Snafu?  You meant to say "lie".  There's a looong way from "We were
           under threat of death from sniper fire!  They send the First Lady
           when it is too dangerous to send the President!" to "We hopped off
           the plane into a beautiful sunny day where young local girls tossed
           flowers at us".
           \_ The interesting thing was how she invented an entire long story
              extolling the evasive capabilities of the transport plane and
              pantomimed "running to the cars".  "And that's how it happened."
              Just bizarre.  And now she said "I misspoke" which is another
              \- I am not sure what the Clinton equivalent of "faith-based
                 community" is, but it's not "reality based". Maybe "Hillary-
                 expedient-recovered-memory-based". I agree with you the
                 "vividness" of some of her recollections are disturbing ...
                 like she has some kind of heroic delusion. I think she
                 actually believes she is more clever than Bill Clinton,
                 which is clearly untrue. If she loses, I wonder if they
                 will effectively split up.
2008/3/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49550 Activity:kinda low
3/24    Wow, you'd think with all that experience, Hillary wouldn't be such a
        bad liar (re: visit to Bosnia).
        \_ The press covered for Hill&Bill for 15+ years.  They didn't have
           to be good liars.  They got busted all through the 90s but mostly
           the press ignored it.  Now that the press is leaning heavily to
           Obama, they are showing the world what the Clintons always were
           and cover for Obama instead.  All very amusing.
        \_ The primaries will never end.  I suspect Hillary and Obama will be
           gearing up for their 3000th debate right around the Inauguration
           of McCain.
           \_ ALGOR is going to settle this by becoming the nominee.
              \- Must not destroy Robot.
        \_ She doesn't actually kiss the little 8 year old Bosnian girl.
           She just makes a kissing motion but presses her cheek against
        \- This really has gone beyond "spin" and exaggeration to lying.
        \- This really has gone beyond "spin" and exaggeration (ALGOR &&
           the Internet) to lying:
           On Bosnia, see:
             http://tinyurl.com/2k8yxg [wapo]
           On Northern Ireland, see:
             http://tinyurl.com/2ff9xe ... this time not a comedian,
           but a Nobel Prize winner.
           (this time not a comedian, but a Nobel Prize winner)
           This kind of thing is beyond "mere sleaze" like this:
           I know this is really long [20min], but it is a much more
           eloquent and cogent version of "why i [psb] hate hillary clinton"
           than i could put together:
           It's about a month out of date but still very worth listening to,
           particularly if you have come to appreciate "character matters"
           It's about a month out of date but still very much worth listening
           to, particularly if you have come to appreciate "character matters"
           in who you vote for, rather than just the policy bundle [which a
           lot of ex-BUSHCO supporters have come to realize]. I strongly,
           strongly, strongly encourage any fence sitters of good conscience
           to watch that [if you have both feet on the Hillary side, I dont
           have much to say to you]. --psb
           \_ Some girl who wants to ***** my ***** out is for Hillary.
              so I'm for Hillary.
              \_ Thanks for posting the url though.  I wonder if I can find
                 an Obama girl...
                 \- one reason the anti-abortion nutjobs and are powerful
                    beyond their numbers, is they are spending their friday
                    nights and sat afternoons agitating, while "apathetic"`
                    younger people are out tring to find people to ***** their
                    ***** out. but supposedly people can combine activism and
                    socializing in the obama campaign [this is secondhand].
                    i thought most of the people you'ld have met at a hillary
                    rally are menopausal women and economic losers? anyway,
                    after you both go your own ways, be sure to tell her the
                    only reason you "went through the hillary supporting
                    motions" was so she'd "go through the motions". be sure
                    to refer to hillary as "the sanctimonious hypocritical
                    liar" so she knows which hillary you are talking about.
           \_ Uhm, I suspect most people reading the motd have already had
              their shot at primary voting.  Who are you trying to convince?
2008/3/23-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49543 Activity:nil 90%like:49537
3/22    Obama retakes lead in Gallup
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/35lwoq [gallup]
        \_ GOBAMA!
2008/3/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49537 Activity:nil 90%like:49543
3/22    Obama retakes lead in Gallup
2008/3/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49524 Activity:nil
3/21    State Department refusing to release names of passport-breaching
        \_ It would give aid and comfort to the terrorists.
2008/3/20-25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49520 Activity:nil
3/20    2 State Department Employees fired for looking at Barack Obama's
        passport file.  WTF?
        Apparently there were three breaches over the past three months.
        This smells really bad, given the Bush Administration's habit of
        replacing career bureacracts with Republican operatives.
        \_ Wouldn't be a Repub conspiracy if they didn't fire them?
        \_ Didn't Clinton have the FBI do the same thing?
           \- yes, and then they made lame comments like "well we stopped
              at the letter G". and "we were evaluating if they were
              security risks, and we were considering giving them jobs"
              ... so did they consider james baker iii a possible security
              risk or a possible clinton admin job candidate?
        \_ Fired? I bet they get a promotion:
2008/3/14-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:49458 Activity:nil
3/14    Yay!  Dem-led congress rejects earmark reforms!
        \_ Earmark reform is a strange beast.  It is arguable people mad
           at something but taking it out on the wrong tool.  Earmarks
           by nature are not evil.  Earmark != pork.
           \_ Yes, all earmark = pork.
        \_ Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
           We won't be fooled again!
        \_ "earmark reform" is one of those great conservative
           ideology-laden terms, like "tax reform" and "welfare reform."
           Conservatives don't really have a problem with earmarks; they
           just don't want to provide public services.   -tom
           \_ Case in point, 2000-2006 congresses were the worst ever
              with respect to earmarks, but now that the Democrats got
              control Bush and the republicans in congress have been
              complaining about earmarks long and loud.  The democrats did
              push through a bill that required that the earmarker actually
              be named in an earmark so that you could see what congresscritter
              asked for what earmarks, which was something that could not
              pass when the republicans controlled congress.
              \_ Note: Obama has released his earmarks. Hillary "I've got
                 a secret" Clinton has not as of yet.  McCain hasn't been
                 doing earmarks for a while.
2008/3/13-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49450 Activity:low
3/13    Oops, the media has finally noticed Obama's racist preacher.
        \_ Racist.
        \_ Obama's response:
           http://preview.tinyurl.com/23hqyu [huffington post]
           I'm sure the media will give him exacty the same treatment as they
           do when Pat Robertson makes some off the wall remarks.  Yep.
           Totally sure.
           \_ Pat Robertson is responsible for what he says. Obama is not
              responsible for what someone else says. Understand the
2008/3/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49437 Activity:nil
3/12    I watch BBC everyday to get away from US news yet it keeps
        talking about Clinton vs. Obama. Really pisses me off.
2008/3/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49433 Activity:nil
3/12    Sinbad bags on Hillary's "crisis" experience in Kosovo
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/2ol5ob [washington post]
        \_ Old news, posted below on 3/10
           \_ Huh, I missed that. -op
2008/3/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49430 Activity:nil
3/12    Does Geri Ferraro not realize what a fucking hypocrite she is?
        "Clinton wouldn't be in the position she is if she was a man."
2008/3/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49429 Activity:high
3/11    13 scandals, all Republicans labeled as such, only one D labeled:
        \_ False. Look again. Is Tobias Republican? How about West?
           \_ Ooh, you're right.  They failed to label 2 R's.  Compared to all
              but one D.
              \_ Or you could say that they failed to label 2 R's and 3 D's
                 one of whom was President Clinton. Does anyone really know
                 one of whom was President Clinton. Does anyone really not know
                 that Clinton was a Democrat? But they did pick twice as
                 many R scandals. Is that liberal bias or just the fact
                 that R's have been getting in hot water more lately?
2008/3/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49418 Activity:nil
3/10    The smoking gun on Hillary's foreign policy claims is...Sinbad?!
        \_ And this, kids, is why you don't fluff your resume.
2008/3/10-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49408 Activity:low
3/10    I love this expose of the liberal media circle.
        thinkprogress -> media matters -> Keith Olbermann -> media matters ->
        new york times
        \_ So if I go on national tv and ask if George Bush rapes little
           boys that's totally just you know, sillyness?
           \_ You haven't watched the clip, obviously. -emarkp
           \_ Even if done in jest, it is the sort of thing that adds up.
              Especially when done on a serious news program.
               \_ Sorry, you're an idiot.  Beck has called the people who are
                  asking if Obama is the Anti-Christ, "crazy" and "nutjobs".
                  Mockery and sarcasm are common and reasonable ways to express
                  an opinion.  -emarkp
                  \_ It's the way the mockery and sarcasm are presented.  Find
                     me a talking head asking "Is George Bush a Nazi?" on a
                     national news show.  I doubt you'll find it.
                     \_ So you still haven't watched the clip? -emarkp
        \_ Ah yes, the "liberal media."
           \_ Yes, precisely. -emarkp
              \_ Exactly how "liberal" did you find the NYTimes series on WMD?
                 A little bit, a lot, or extremely?  Damn liberals!
                 \_ How fair did you find the front-page utterly fabricated
                    smear on McCain? A little bit, a lot, or extremely?
                    \_ The Times sucks.  No disagreement from me. But calling
                       them the "liberal media" is ignoring reality.
                       \_ Yes, you're repeatedly denied that they're liberal.
                          However, they consistently err on the side of
                          criticizing the right. -emarkp
                          \_ Except for their years-long crusade on behalf
                             of the Whitewater investigation, their shameful
                             series on WMD from Judith Miller, etc...
                             \_ Ah, I wrote "consistently".  My bad.  I meant
                                to say they do so in the overwhelming majority.
                                \_ I'm not sure what you base this
                                   "overwhelming majority" assertion on.
                                   They infuriate me on a daily basis.
                                \_ Hypothesis: The right is worthy of
                                   criticism more often.
                                   \_ Odd hypothesis, and probably difficult to
                                   \_ Eliot Spitzer, the Democratic mayor of

                                   \_ Eliot Spitzer, the Democratic gvrnr of
                                      New York just got busted on a connection
                                      with a prostitution ring (!?).  -- ilyas
                                      \_ ... which the Times is doing a huge
                                         story on.
                                         \_ yes.  And note, he wasn't
                                            "connected with a prostitution
                                            ring"; he hired a prostitute.  -tom
                                      \_ Governor of NY State.
                                         \_ Yes sorry, fixed.  -- ilyas
                                \_ I disagree. They just tend to go after
                                   whoever is in power, which is part of the
                                   role of media as government watchdog. See
                                   the huge above the fold story about Spitzer
                                   right now. It has just been so long since
                                   the Democrats were in power, that people
                                   have forgotten the role the NYT played in
                                   attacking Clinton, Rostenkowski, etc. The
                                   NYT might be slightly more liberal than
                                   most, but that is just a reflection of
                                   their readership. Overall, they are just
                                   another big corporation, controlled by
                                   billionaires and in the business of selling
                                   ads. Why do you believe otherwise?
                                   \_ If their role is to go after those in
                                      power, why did they play such a major
                                      role in aiding and abetting the WMD
                                      shenanigans and in going into Iraq in
                                      the first place?
                                      \_ War against a foreign country only
                                         happens when the moneyed classes think
                                         they are going to profit from it.
                                         -George Orwell
        \_ I guess I've never seen Keith Olbermann before, he looks like he's
           made of plastic.
2008/3/10-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49404 Activity:nil 88%like:49402
3/10    Why there won't be a second Florida primary:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yz4s2 [new republic]
2008/3/10 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49402 Activity:nil 88%like:49404
3/10    Why there won't be a second Florida primary:
2008/3/9-11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:49398 Activity:moderate
3/9     Basically, the math is simple.  Hillary's screwed.
        \- i wouldnt discount the out-of-the-box thinking capacity of the
           reptiles in hillary inc. i think factors in play are florida.,
           michigan, edwards, ALGOR, "obama surprise", some judicial stunt,
           mccain doing something to set up mccain-billary, modelling the
           brains of menopausal women aka "the hillary base". on a positive
           note is lot of cash for obama. who can keep supporting hillary
           after the fucking "as far as i know" comment. jesus. remember
           normal odds handicapping doesnt work when the otherwise doesnt
           play by MoQ rules but will bite, gouge, hit under the belt etc.
           brains of menopausal women aka "the hillary base" and the Power
           of Bill. on a positive note is lot of cash for obama. who can keep
           supporting hillary after the fucking "as far as i know" comment.
           jesus. remember normal odds handicapping doesnt work when the
           otherwise doesnt play by MoQ rules but will bite, gouge, hit
           other sidedoesnt play by MoQ rules but will bite, gouge, hit
           under the belt etc.
           \_ Hi.  Hillary supporter here.  what is the 'as far as i know'
              \_ Clinton was asked in an interview whether BHO is a Muslim.
                 She basically said "No, he's not.  As far as I know."
                 \_ oh.  ok that's pretty bad.
                         \- and then she went on to talk about herself ...
                            "oh i dont believe in smearing people ...
                            i've been smeared a lot. did i tell you i know
                            what it is like to be smeared?" constrast that
                            with obama's above and beyond the call comments
                            about "i am not a muslim" + "it's sad that
                            being called a muslim can be considered a smear".
                            remember michael igantieff's lesson from iraq:
                            character matters. [i.e. if you get into bed with
                            evil fuckers just because you agree with them
                            on some particlar end [say universal healthcare]
                            you will get burned.
                            remember michael ignatieff's lesson from his
                            iraq war mea culpa: character matters [MI = liberal
                            supporter of the war, who later came to the reali-
                            zation, if you get into bed with evil fuckers,
                            just because you agree with them on some particular
                            policy platform --- say universal healthcare ---
                            you will get burned ... because ultimately what
                            matters is they are evil fuckers.]
                            \- also see:
                 \_ Here's the video:
2008/3/8-11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49389 Activity:nil 90%like:49388
3/8     Oops, looks like Obama may have actually won Texas
        http://csua.org/u/kzq  (npr)
        \_ That was expected, since Obama does so well in caucuses.  IIRC I
           heard that the Clinton campaign was trying to supress the reporting
           of the outcome of the caucuses so she could claim victory on the
           night of.
           \_ Why do we let republicans like you come on here to bash hillary?
              She's the smartest woman in the world and it's about time a
              woman ran this country.  Take your hate elsewhere.
              \- Sandra Day O'Conner is 10x smarter than Hillary.
2008/3/8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49388 Activity:nil 90%like:49389
3/8     Oops, looks like Obama may have actually won Texas
2008/3/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49371 Activity:nil
3/6     No one remembers that the national Dems warned FL Dems not to have
        their early primary?  And FL Dems chose to do it anyway (deciding not
        to have a caucus later)?
        \_ I remember, why did you forget or something? The FL voters
           are always trying to twist the rules to their advantage, remember
           \_ That wasn't the voters
2008/3/5-7 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49347 Activity:nil 90%like:49344
3/5     America is "just downright mean" says Mrs. Obama
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/23jjtf (newyorker.com)
2008/3/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:49344 Activity:nil 90%like:49347
3/5     America is "just downright mean" says Mrs. Obama
2008/3/1-5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49312 Activity:low
3/1     holy shit Hillary Clinton is on Saturday Night Live! She must
        be desperate or something. I feel sorry for her.
        \_ Well yeah, her campaign was dead weeks ago.  Hail Mary!
        \_ Appearing on the Arsenio Hall Show worked for Bill.
           \_ Arsenio Hall Show circa 1992 wasn't nearly as bad (and unwatched)
              as the current SNL season.
              \- i think some of the OBAMA v HILARY answers on 60m tonight
                 were insightful as to why i personally hate hilary and
                 like obama more. and this is one question where i think my
                 reaction was somewhat representative of wide range of people:
                 when obama was asked about the "hussein smear", he stated
                 clearly that he was an xtian and the went the UNNECESSARY
                 AND POLITCALLY RISKY BUT PRINCIPLED extra mile to comment
                 on "not that claiming somebody is a muslim should be a slur".
                 now contract that wil hillary's answers to the episode where
                 she said weaslely things like "yes, to the best of my
                 knowledge obama is not a muslim" and then proceeded to talk
                 about herself ... about how "i know what it is to be smeared"
                 \_ *That* is why you hate her?  That's just typical political
                    dissembling.  There are many reasons to hate her, but that
                    is hardly the top of the list.  Anyway, in 48 hours it'll
                    over be "officially" over because she already lost a month
                    ago out in reality-world.
                    \- no that is just emblematic, jsut like i dont hate BUSHCO
                       because of his flippant, cowbowish comments, but that
                       too is emblematic. in the obama case, going the extra
                       mile and making the "pro muslim" commnt comes at a
                       (potental) cost.
                       \_ did some Desperate Hillarite delete this to keep
                          people from seeing what a fool she made of herself?
                          \- in same the spirit, see Tom Dashle [Obama] vs
                             Harold Ickes [Billary] on CROSE show.
                             HICKIES sounds like the anti-google people ...
                             "people who prefer searching on GOOG dont
                             realize our search engine is better" "do you
                             trust GOOG to tell you what to think?" "GOOG
                             is a vulnurable company built on one idea".
                             but of course maybe it is unfair to judge
                             them based on a guy who has been a professional
                             weasel since 1968. n.b. HICKES went to The Fraud.
                             Speaking of fraud: http://tinyurl.com/ypskol
2008/2/29-3/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:49305 Activity:nil 97%like:49298
2/28    The lying, despicable campaign to turn Jews against Obama
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/38zy54 (tpm)
        \_ Man, I keep misreading this as:
           'The lying, despicable campaign of the Jews against Obama'
        \_ I read the first 10 paragraphs or so before I couldn't take it
           anymore.  This opinion piece is just stupid and fact free.
           \_ So you think that attempting to Godwin Obama is legit?
              \_ No one is Godwining Obama.  Or if they are this 'article'
                 certainly doesn't make a strong case for it.  The flip side
                 of the Godwin thing is that you're not being Godwinned if the
                 charges are true, which remains to be seen in Obama's case,
                 since he's a good speaker but doesn't say much.
                 \_ I see.  So you're in bed with the smear tactics.  Cool,
                    got it.
                    \_ That line doesn't even make sense. Shessh. -!pp
                    \_ Classic case of reading what you want to read, instead
                       of reading what was said.  Your Rhetoric 1A grade to
                       date is "F," but you still have time to pull it up to a
                       "C" if you work at it and come to office hours every
                       week.  -pp
        \_ This really is a poorly written article.  It's making a mountain of
           a molehill (Tim Russert) who was already making a molehill of a
           pebble (Farrakhan).  It's like cascading stupidity.
           \- i thought it was a decent article. it is about more than
              just the tim russert issue. it might have been nice to have
              a few more facts about how "marginal" farrakhan is, but i can
              understand why he didnt get into it ... i think most of his
              audience would have been willing to accept farrakhan = nutjob
              and you dont need to do much more than draw the analogy to an
              endorsement from David Duke.
2008/2/29-3/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49299 Activity:nil
2/28    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3gQfz8GC0o
        \_ Hillary cackles in response to serious questions as technique
           to avoid answering same questions.  Amusing but not really
           meaningful now since her campaign ended Feb 5th.
2008/2/29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:49298 Activity:nil 97%like:49305
2/28    The lying, despicable campaign to turn Jews against Obama
2008/2/29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49297 Activity:nil
2/28    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etk_O-nhlA4
2008/2/28-3/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:49283 Activity:nil
2/28    http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0406-30.htm
        Republicans, as a group, may be happier because, on average, they
        prioritize personal goals and largely identify with people similar
        to them. Compared with Democrats and Independents, their main goals
        are narrower and more selfish, and thus more easily obtained.
        \_ Dems need to get the fuck smarter AND co-opt self-reliance
        \_ What are the goals of (D) and (I)?  If your goals are pie in the
           sky and truly unreachable of course you'll be unhappy.  This has
           nothing to do with your trolling.
        \_ Rich people are happier than poor people. Does this surprise
           \_ Actually past a certain poverty level, it's not entirely clear
              this is true. -- ilyas
2008/2/26-3/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49259 Activity:nil 92%like:49258
2/26    Interesting article about Obama's policy team
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cn6xr (tnr.com)
        \_ That is interesting. Thanks. It will be nice to have a president
           more interested in competence than ideology.
           \_ So if he had people who you didn't agree with would you still
              say they are competent?
2008/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49258 Activity:nil 92%like:49259
2/26    Interesting article about Obama's policy team
2008/2/25-29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:49248 Activity:nil
2/25    Why Obama Hates America
        It's even better than you think.
        \_ Wow, just wow.  Fortunately he's pretty good at responding to this
           \_ I think he prefers tendon, rare steak, brisket, and finally
              tripe in that order.
              \_ There's never a rare steak, brisket, flank combo. Irritating.
                 \_ You obviously don't eat Pho.
        \_ This the magazine that ran the editorial "Why I Hate Blacks"
2008/2/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49234 Activity:nil
2/24    Clinton campaign caught circulating photo of Obama in traditional
        Somali garb:
        Clinton campaign non-denial denial:
        \_ Is that a fake photo?
           \_ Nope, it's from a 2006 congressional delegation to Somalia
           \_ Nope, it's from a 2006 congressional delegation to Kenya
              Senators and reps do this sort of thing all the time - go to
              foreign country, try on the traditional outfit.  The slime is
              in the suggestion that there's anything wrong with the picture.
              [just keep on deleting and I'll keep restoring]
2008/2/18-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49176 Activity:nil
2/16    Poverty is Poison:
        \_ You know, this article started off good until it got to "But
           progress stalled thereafter: American politics shifted to
           the right..." which has the effect of turning off 1/2 of the
           readers in the U.S. On the other hand, I don't know any
           conservative reading NY times so maybe it's well fitted.
        \- if you are interested in this topic, read WHY ZEBRAS DONT GET
           ULCERS. very, very good book. [the book is primarily about
           something else, but coverns this in some depth as well]. --psb
2008/2/16-18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49166 Activity:nil 54%like:49156
2/15    Obama and Clinton bribe the superdelegates:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/384jru (ap.google.com)
2008/2/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49162 Activity:nil
2/15    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5y6nS4ErwjpwekMrJe53uPrnTcwD8UQCMEG2
2008/2/15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49156 Activity:nil 54%like:49166
2/15    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5y6nS4ErwjpwekMrJe53uPrnTcwD8UQCMEG2
        Obama and Clinton bribe the superdelegates.
2008/2/11-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:49116 Activity:nil
2/11    Awesome. Pennies and Nickels are now worth twice their face value in
2008/2/11-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Computer/SW/Languages/Perl] UID:49115 Activity:nil
2/11    Clinton's campaign manager replaced with a perl script. News at 11.
2008/1/25-2/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49017 Activity:nil
1/25    Looks like Giuliani is out
        \_ Likely, but remember polls are worth absolutely nothing.
        \_ Giuliani's strategy is to lose in every state and then declare
           this year is "opposite year"
2008/1/23-31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48991 Activity:low
1/22    Sweet, Bush's stimulus package is nearly *twice as large* as the
        one Clinton proposed in 1993, but couldn't get passed.  Go
        \_ So who are you blasting? Is it a good idea that was unfairly spiked
           in 1993, so....Bush is bad?
           \_ Dunno about op, but I find it to be more evidence of how BushCo
              is lacking in principles, even ones I don't support. Morally
              bankrupt doesn't do it justice.
              \_ Wait, wasn't congress a majority D in 1993?  What does this
                 have to do with BushCo?  Okay, now checking:
                 The D's had a majority in both houses and the presidency. How
                 does what they failed to pass mean anything wrt Bush?
                 \_ Clinton proposed a stimulus package that would have raised
                    the Deficit; har, har, snicker conservatives, typical Dem.
                    Bush proposes _twice as large_ stim package, yet pretends
                    to be fiscally conservative Rep in the tradition of Reagan.
                    The irony is enough to cure world-wide anemia.
                    \_ Reagan was never fiscally conservative.
                       Reagan == trickle down economics. High deficit spending
                       is not being fiscally conservative. Ron Paul is the
                       only current candidate promoting fiscal conservativism.
                    \_ Bush hasn't pretended to be fiscally conservative for a
                       long time.  It's why he's lost a lot of his base. See
                       the thread from 1/18 on that very topic. -emarkp
                       \_ Now you're memorizing threads+date? Dang you're
                          a major motd-snob.
                          \_ more like a major motd-geek than a motd-snob.
                          \_ No, I'm not memorizing it, I just remember
                             mentioning it a few days ago. Checking the history
                             was easy. -emarkp
                       \_ Yes, you know that, I know that, lots of people
                          know that. He still keeps pretending.
        \_ So the real story is that Clinton proposed an R idea, and a D
           congress shot it down?
           \_ The real story is that there are no conspiracies. It's all out
              in the open.
        \_ These economic stimulus packages are bogus and don't address the
           fact that the economy is being hollowed out and the financial
           system is out of control due to lack of any kind of regulation.
           Out of control lending and speculation, twin deficits over a
           trillion a year is setting up the system for collapse, all this
           shit Bush and the Fed are doing is just delaying the inevitable.
           \_ The important thing is delaying shit hitting the fan until
              someone else takes over, then it's their problem.
                \_ Yup -- the shit will hit the fan around 2010/2012 when
                   peak oil arrives so whatever party wins the election
                   will get one term and then get dumped (see Carter)
                   \_ You're totally nuts if you think Carter got kicked out
                      because of oil prices or economic events his
                      administration wasn't mostly responsible for.  Maybe
                      you also heard of this little thing called The Iran
                      Hostage Crisis?  Are you old enough to remember the
                      daily count-up on the news reminding us yet another
                      day had gone by while our people were held by a
                      foreign power while Carter stood around with two thumbs
                      up his ass telling us how America should get used to
                      being a third rate power?  Sheesh.  I could go on but
                      there's no point.
                        \_ I had forgotthen how Reagan solved the Iran hostage
                           crisis in the first 5 minutes of his Presidency ...
                           \_ I'm sure you forgot because it has nothing at all
                              to do with anything I said about Carter.  Nice
                   \_ PEEK OIL!!!!11!!
           \_ Yeah, we got to this point for a reason. Cutting the rate
              more and spending more is just digging the hole deeper. Maybe
              it will prop up housing again for a while with more cheap credit.
        \_ Isn't the economy more than twice as large today?
           \_ Not even close. It's like ~9:13. 1:1.7 in real dollars.
              (According to US budget tables.)
              \_ Is Bush's budget stimulus twice as large in real dollars
                 or nominal dollars? In nominal dollars the economy is
                 almost exactly twice as big:
                 \_ For some reason I was comparing against 2000. You're
                    right about nominal dollars vs. 1993. But in real dollars
                    it's still only like 33% bigger. Hooray for inflation.
                    And that also assumes the government CPI shit is accurate.
                    (I'll let the op figure out whatever he was referring to.)
2008/1/22-31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48984 Activity:nil
1/22    This Clinton sleeping thing seems fine to me. The speech he's listening
        to here appears 100% content-free.
2008/1/10-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48926 Activity:nil
1/10    RIP Sir Edmund Hillary
        \_ The one Clinton was named after?
2007/12/4-7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48740 Activity:nil
12/4    Did Hillary troll the media?
2007/12/3-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:48734 Activity:high
12/3    The primaries finally get interesting
        Any predictions on who will take the R nomination? I have no idea,
        Except that I think Giuliani is done.
        \_ I think that if Giuliani falls down it will be Romney and
           he will get even less of the vote than Dukakis did.
           \_ Heard on the radio this morning that Romney's counting on a win
              in Iowa or going home. Is Huckabee really the choice candidate?
              \_ Well, he's a socialist.  He belives that compassion means
                 taking *someone else's* money to give to the needy.
           \_ Romney would win Utah.
              \_ Pretty much any R would win Utah.
                 \_ Well, I actually meant he would win Utah and no other state.
                 \_ Well, I actually meant he would win Utah and no other
                    \_ Why do you think that?
        \_ I think Huckabee is looking more and more like the best the R's
           can do this year. It would make for an interesting race, to say
           the least.
           \_ Huckabee is the current darling of the religious right who are
              obsessed with the bogus concept of stacking the supreme court
              so they can over turn RvW.  If they actually knew anything about
              him (or you either for that matter), it would be obvious that
              Huckabee offers the worst of both left and right wing while
              offering none of the positives of either.  If the RR stayed
              home we'd all be better off.  Huckabee isn't going anywhere.
           \_ Huckabee is an ass and would fall apart once the non faithful
              took ANY look at him.
              \_ Huckabee called for a national smoking ban in public places.
                 \_ Did it occur to him that it's unconstitutional for the Fed
                    to legistlate something like that?
                    \_ Why do you think it would be unconstitutional?
                       \_ 10th amendment?
                          \_ The Constitution is just a piece of paper.
                             \_ Hi troll.
                          \_ "The powers not delegated to the United States by
                              the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the
                              states, are reserved to the states respectively,
                              or to the people."
                             Since pharmaceuticals are not mentioned in the
                             constitution, do you really think the Gov. has no
                             right/obligation to regulate them?
                             \_ What do you think that says?
                             \_ On that logic just about any regulatory body
                                is unconstitutional, but guess what, the
                                FCC, the FDA, etc etc, are all pretty well
                                \_ I agree, but I'm wondering why the person
                                   who thinks it's unconstitutional thinks
                                   it's so in the face of the etc etc you
                                \_ Hello, you may wish to see Art. 1, Sec. 8
                                   Cl. 18 (the "necessary and proper clause")
                                   and McCulloch, 17 US 316 (1819) re the
                                   constitutionality of the FCC, FDA, &c.
                                   and McCulloch, 17 US 316 (1819).
                                   \_ Income tax is unconstitutional, too.
2007/12/3-6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48733 Activity:moderate
12/3    Perot was right:
        http://www.csua.org/u/k50 (SF Gate)
        \_ about what, dubya being an idiot?
        \_ Ron Paul > Perot
         \_ Damning with faint praise?
          \_ What was bad about Perot? Was Clinton better?
             \_ <doubletake> Huh?!?
                \_ It's R code. A vote for perot was a vote for clinton.
                   \_ Perot was a protest vote for those who thought the
                      party was drifting.  The contract with america was
                      the response to that protest. Then it all fell to shit.
2007/11/30-12/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48722 Activity:kinda low
11/30   http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/30/clinton.office/index.html
        Liberals dressed up as Republicans hold hostages in Clinton 08
        Campaign Office to gain sympathy and hatred for Republicans.
        \_ What makes you think they are liberals? Sounds more like
           Islamo-Facists to me.
           \_ Until we hear more, I suspect your average loony.
           \_ "The suspect was a well-known local man with a history of
              emotional issues who allegedly told his son to watch the news, a
              well-placed law enforcement source told ABC News' Pierre Thomas."
           \_ Huh?  Is Karl Rove working for the Democrats now?  That's his
              kind of trick.
              \_ "If you found out that Hillary Clinton was a satan-worshipping
                  lesbian who kidnapped and tortured her own campaign staff,
                  would it make you any less likely to vote for her?"
                  \_ Hell no, she'd still be better than any Republican.
                     \_ Except Ron Paul
                     \_ That reply explains so much seen on the motd.
        \_ It was a Jew. Probably one of those deranged settler types.
           \_ I'm still waiting for my share of Global Jewish Power.  I sent
              in the SASE and everything.  --Forgotten by ZOG
           \_ Yes, I WANT ME GOLD. -- ilyas
              \_ I didn't get my share of gold in the mail either. -Forgotten
2007/11/28-12/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48707 Activity:nil
11/28   Zogby responds to (Clinton insider) Mark Penn's criticism of the recent
        poll showing Hillary trailing Republican frontrunners
        \_ Why does Zogby hate Hillary?
2007/11/24-29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48688 Activity:high
11/23   John Howard loses not only the national election, but his own seat.
        Another Bush lapdog goes down.
        \_ Kevin Rudd: We're pulling out of Iraq, and we're signing the
           Kyoto Treaty. Smackdown!
        \_ You people with Bush Derangement Syndrome are funny!  Everyone is
           Bush's lapdog.
           \- funny-but-not-really was the "coalition of the willing".
              [c.f. Costa Rica, Palau, Tonga]. if you hate minke whales
              [the "rats of the sea"], this is actually kinda funny:
                 "Pro-whaling Mali and Mongolia have consistently
                 voted with Japan in the IWC in its campaign to
                 resume whale hunting. [http://tinyurl.com/2ekq52]
              See also:
              BTW, JHOWARD also took flack for a number of "conservative"
              ideas in domestic/econ policies, not just "war on terror"
              issues. --!OP
              \_ Cf. Aussie immigration policy, Pauline Hansen (better us
                 than her lot, eh?), Fiji, Indonesia, and the rapid
                 deterioration of Aussie cricket and rugby. Good on yer,
           \_ Not as funny as people with Clinton Derangement Syndrome.
              \_ Sorry, but it's at least twice as funny as CDS because of the
                 self-contradictory nature of BDS. Bush is simultaneously a
                 bumbling fool and a genius criminal mastermind/manipulator?
                 At least CDS is consistent - Clinton let crap happen because
                 he was too busy chasing booty/food?
                 \_ I am pretty consistently of the "bush is a bumbling
                    fool who has fucked up the entire world" kind of guy
                    fool who has messed up the entire world" school
                    of thought, myself
                 \_ You mean he killed Vince Foster and gave nuclear secrets
                    to the Chinese by accident while chasing booty?
                    \_ According to people with CDS, Hilary was behind these.
                       \_ http://www.csua.org/u/k2j (NewsMax, I know...)
                          "How did the Chinese catch up so fast? Easy. We sold
                          them all the technology they needed . or handed it
                          over for free. Neither neglect nor carelessness is
                          to blame. Bill Clinton did it on purpose."
                 \_ A fool in a position of power can still reward his friends.
                    Or commit crimes. Or spend money, or initiate wars.
                    \_ But only a genius master manipulator can get away with
                       \_ It is not clear that he got away with it.
           \_ Bush is the greatest Republican President ever! Better than
              Reagan! Better than Lincoln! We will build shrines in his
              honor, put his face on Mt. Rushmore and the Two Dollar Bill!
              http://www.csua.org/u/ify (Mission Accomplished!)
           \_ You mean the 2/3 of America that doesn't like Bush, as opposed
              to you 30% that still think he is swell? Do you really think
              that 2/3 of America is deranged?
              \_ Disliking != derangement. See, it's the deranged that say that
                 a second-longest-in-power PM getting ousted is "another Bush
                 lapdog" going down. -op
           \- Bush Derangement Syndrome?  perhaps.  i do hope that he lives
              long enough to be tried for his role in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo,
              and the kidnapping, "extraordinary rendition", and torture of
              people around the world (who sometimes turn out to be innocent).
              but what i hate are Bush's policies.  it doesn't really matter
              whether he's the evil mastermind behind the policies or a
              cretinous sock puppet with Dick Cheney's hand shoved up his ass
              making his mouth move (though i tend to suspect the latter).
              regardless, i'm delighted when supporters of his policies get
              voted out of office.
              \_ You're seriously deluded if you believe he'll ever be tried
                 for so much as a traffic violation much less anything else
                 on your list.  Most of your list is post 9/11 but do you
                 know that extraordinary rendition was a Clinton era policy?
                 Yes, Bush continued it but his administration sure as hell
                 didn't come up with the idea.  Should Clinton be tried for
                 that?  If you don't think so or you have some other
                 rationalization then you suffer from BDS.  There is no cure.
                 \_ Heh, have you known psb long?
                    \_ Yes but there's always hope.
                       \- what does this have to do with me?
                          the only thing i wrote in theis thread was the
                          minke whale comment above. i'm not holding my breath
                          but i could see something like what happened to
                          pinochet happening to bush/rumsfeld/cheney ...
                          bush should be around for a while. --psb
                 \_ Bill Clinton should be indicted for the murder of Ed Willey,
                    Vince Foster and Ron Brown.
                 \_ Bill Clinton should be indicted for the murder of Ed
                    Willey, Vince Foster and Ron Brown.
                    \_ Maybe but first the cases should be properly
                       investigated.  I know the first 2 weren't.  I don't
                       know the RB details.
2007/10/30-11/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:48484 Activity:low
10/29   I'm watching an interview with Denis Kucinich's wife.  RISE UP
        NERDS.  GET THIS GUY ELECTED.  jesus christ.
        \_ She's hot. He's smart. Together, they're unelectable, but they
           fight crine! Also, his appearance on COLBERT was superb.
        \_ Kucinich is an opportunistic douche bag, and dirty to the core.
           Read up on his record when he was in Ohio state politics. -dans
           \_ I'm curious why you think he was "dirty".  I am not from Ohio
              like you.  I have read about how he was unpopular as mayor
              because he supported a city owned electric company, but years
              later, after he has been out of office for a long time, it seems
              like the city is pretty fucking happy they own the electic
              company.  Find me some dirt!
              \_ dans, are you a Hillary supporter?
                 \_ I'm not entirely decided but I lean more toward Obama than
                    Clinton. -dans
              \_ I'm not from Ohio, but I have friends who are.  ObGoogle to
                 find your dirt.  It's not that well hidden. -dans
           \_ Name the (D) front runner who isn't dirty.
              \_ s/(D)/(D) or (R)/
                 \_ Only Democrats are dirty. Republicans all believe in
                    God, Country and The Boy Scouts.
                    \_ And foot-tapping in public restrooms.
                    \_ The topic was Dems, so I said Dems.  Name any front
                       runner who isn't dirty.  I don't care which party.
                       Still waiting....
                       \_ Ok, what's dirty about Obama and Romney?  Obama is a
                          racist, but he's pretty upfront about it.
                          \_ Oh please.
                             \_ Oh please what?  Buy me an ice cream cone?
                               \_ Oh please stop spouting some of the most
                                  pathetic smears about Obama without at least
                                  giving some "proof" we can laugh at.
                                  \_ Basically I read his book.  I'm busy this
                                     week, I'll start a new topic sometime
                                     soon.  Have you read his book?
                                     \_ So I guess you never stopped diddling
                                        little boys.
             \_ IMO, all national level politicians have some dirt, it's just
                that some are dirtier than other.  Don't be disingenuous, you
                could have just as easily said, Name a presidential front
                runner who isn't dirty.  Dirt is a range, not a binary switch.
        \_ GO RON PAUL - principled computer programmer who thinks they are
                       \_ Hillary Rodham Clinton
                          \_ You and the Romney guy are both hilarious.
                             I'm voting for Ron Paul, because you gotta
                             love an OB/GYN in the White House (Clinton
                             doesn't count).
                             \_ Me too. What do you think of Duncan Hunter?
                             \_ I asked you what's dirty about them, apparently
                                you have no response.
                             \_ CliTton ain't no OB/GYN.  He's an
        \_ link?
2007/10/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48365 Activity:nil
10/18   It's not just the Religious Right:
        http://csua.org/u/jr9 (WashPo)
        \_ Why do you hate America?
2007/10/15-18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48326 Activity:low
10/15   The House pushing a resolution about the Armenian Genocide,
        The president asks the Speaker of the House to pull the legislation
        from the floor.
        Year: 2000
        Speaker: Hastert
        President: Clinton
        (Washington Post)
        \_ In 2000 we didn't need Turkey to short path supplies to our
           soldiers.  Was that your point?
           \_ Setting up for the old Dolchstosslegende so soon? I guess
              you guys have finally seen that your crazy crusade is going
              to fail.
               \_ The washington post, right wing super conservative news
                  organ, disagrees with you.  If you think pissing off your
                  closest allies during war is good diplomacy....
2007/10/12-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:48302 Activity:high
10/12   Awesome.   http://csua.org/u/jq0
        (ebay auction of... oh, who cares, it's partisan crap disguised as a
        short url.  Op, did you happen to see your dignity on auction while you
        were there?)
        \_ Actually it's about accuracy, and Reid's inability to find it with
           both hands.
           \_ Actually, it is about Rush Limbaugh's attempt to rewrite history,
              something he does all the time. Where are his transcripts of him
              calling Chelsea Clinton the "White House Dog?"
              See where he calls them "phony soldiers."
              \_ Yeah, http://mm.org has been arguing against the truth for quite a
                 while.  Limbaugh clearly was talking about actual phony
                 soldiers.  See "Operation Stolen Valor".  Limbaugh went on to
                 talk about McBride and others like him.
                 talk about Macbeth and others like him.
              \_ I heard it live, in context.  He was clearly not turning
                 his back on 20+ years of pro-military rhetoric.  Reid and
                 http://mm.org got it wrong.  The only way they could get it so
                 wrong was by intentionally ignoring the facts.  Rush is
                 an amusing entertainer and not worthy of this sort of
                 waste of time on the Senate floor nor a ridiculous witch
                 hunt.  Especially since he's said plenty of other things
                 worth attacking that he's actually said.
                 \_ Another "phony soldier" no doubt:
                    Rush only calls you a phony if you don't support
                    Bush's war.
                    \_ If you ever actually listened to Rush you'd know he's
                       said many times that he has no problem with real
                       soldiers being critical of the war.  Just the fakes
                       and frauds like the guy he was talking about that day
                       who flunked out of basic but falsely claimed to be a
                       US Army ranger who committed and witnessed numerous
                       atrocities.  You're tossing a red herring.  Reid is
                       a liar.  Media Matters (a Hillary created front org)
                       are liars.  The other 40 Senators who signed his
                       stupid letter are liars.  If you want to bash Bush or
                       the war, go ahead, but that has nothing to do with
                       Reid, Hillary, and the rest flat out lying about what
                       Rush said and wasting Senate time attacking a US
                       citizen's first amendment rights.  Have a nice day.
                       \_ First off, what proof do you have that the first
                          caller was a phony soldier, which is what Rush
                          clearly called him? Secondly, Media Matters is
                          hardly a Hillary created front org, it was founded
                          by David Brock, someone I personally know from
                          my time at Wired Magazine and it is funded by
                          Soros. As usual, you are either confused or
                          spreading misinformation.
                          Soros. As usual, you are spreading misinformation.
                          \_ The first caller was a phony soldier?  What are
                             you talking about?  I don't think you know.
                             Secondly, Brock is a Hillary minion.  Your knowing
                             him personally has nothing to do with anything.
                             Of coruse Hillary didn't fund it herself.  No one
                             said she did.  Sheesh.  Either way, Reid and MM
                             are still liars.  All this other stuff is
                             \_ Brock is hardly a Hillary minion, unless you
                                really believe that everyone to the left of
                                Mitt Romney is part of a vast Hillary
                                conspiracy. If anything, he is a Soros minion,
                                since Soros writes his paycheck. And Soros
                                is quite a long way from Hillary, believe me.
                                \_ You failed to answer about the first part
                                   about "first caller was a phony soldier".
                                   You don't know anything about this story.
                                   You're just a troll.  The rest of your
                                   post is nonsense.
                                   \_ In a simple reading of what Rush said,
                                      it is quite clear that he referred to
                                      the first caller as a phony soldier, yes.
                                      Your English language skills are
                                      deficient. You also don't know what the
                                      word "troll" means. Hint, it does not
                                      mean "anyone who disagrees with me."
                                      \_ sorry, I was listening to the show,
                                         not a cut up transcript.  He was
                                         clearly not referring to the caller.
                                         The rest of your ad hominem is not
                                         worth replying to since it is based
                                         on your complete lack of knowledge
                                         of the situation.
                                         \_ Calling someone a troll is fine,
                                            but saying "you don't know what
                                            a troll is" is ad hominem? You
                                            don't know what ad hominem means
                                \_ To both of you: Please show evidence that
                                   Soros or Hillary in any way financially
                                   supports MM.  "Drudge says so" is not
                                   \_ Sorry, I mistakenly thought this was
                                      common knowledge. It is pretty funny
                                      to watch the Right foam at the mouth
                                      over MM. They have been doing the
                                      same stuff for years, but they get
                                      seriously paranoid and nutty when
                                      anyone gives them a dose of their
                                      own medicine. Where does MM get its
                                      \_ "common knowledge" to who? Ditto-
                                         heads? Answer your own question then
                                         come back and show us your results.
                                      \_ I've donated to them.
                                         \_ I've wasted money on stuff before,
                                            \_ Well, they seem to get you all
                                               hot and bothered, so it wasn't
                                               a total waste, now was it?
                                               \_ *laugh* the first troll who
                                                  is paying others to do it
                                                  for them.  You've taken the
                                                  Art Of Troll to a whole new
                                                  level.  Keep sending money.
                                                  Wow, you're dumb.
                                                  \_ Do you really think that
                                                     this is the *first* troll
                                                     to ever do that? What do
                                                     you think of Horowitz
                                                     and FrontPage Mag?
                                                     \_ I don't donate to
                                                        Horowitz or FPM or
                                                        MM or any other troll
                                                        orgs.  Why would you?
                                                        \_ You are begging
                                                           the question. Is
                                                           MM the *first*?
                                                           \_ Of course it
                        isn't but that is a side show.  Who cares which was
                        first?  I don't and have never donated to any of them.
                        Why would anyone donate to orgs who by their very
                        nature are designed to lie and created with that
                        purpose in mind?   Maybe that's your thing but I'll
                        send my charity to places that try to do good in the
                        \_ Surprisingly enough, not everyone agrees with what
                           your definition of "do good in the world" means.
        \_ I'm sad anyone takes Rush seriously, ever, or pays any attention
           to him.
           \_ Talk to Reid about that, wasting time in the Senate on an
        \_ ugh debating anything Rush spews is stupid.  http://MM.org is a Soros
           creation, not hillary.
           \_ From Rush to Drudge...  Can't you people factcheck anything?
              The zombie lies will never die...
           \_ Hillary herself said she helped create http://MM.org.  Here is the
              article, with a download of the audio of her saying it.
              \_ First off, this is not really what she said there, if you
                 pay attention carefully to the wording. She said she supports
                 it, which can mean practically anything. Secondly, do you
                 honesly believe every lie that a politician tells you?
                 Did you believe Dubya when he told you that Saddam had
                 WMD and a Nuclear program? Did you believe Gore when he
                 told you that he invented the Internet? The actual founder
                 of MM is famous for having written various anti-Clinton
                 pieces, including the Troopergate story (which was later
                 exposed as a lie, which was part of what led to Brock's
                 \_ So we have to carefully parse her words to figure out wtf
                    she's talking about?  Does she know what the meaning of
                    "is" is or was the previously resolved in court?  Sheesh.
                    \_ Politicians say bland, impenetrable things all the time,
                       deliberately using the ambiguity inherent in language
                       to tell the greatest number of listeners what they
                       think they want to hear, without actually saying
                       anything. Hillary is just better at it than most.
                       \_ I suppose it depends on what the meaning of "it" is.
                          I prefer leaders, of which we have a few, over your
                          politicians.  Saying she is a politician and there-
                          fore it is ok for her to dissemble is not ok.  You
                          might as well vote for Bush.
                          \_ I think it is obvious that I am no big fan of
                             Hillary either, but I don't see any of these
                             "leaders" running for President, from either
                             party. You might be able to convince me otherwise
                             with regards to McCain. Anyone else even
                             remotely close?
                             \_ Among the 'top candidates' as chosen by the
                                media, no, not really.  There are others
                                running we barely hear from.  Maybe there.
                                \_ Who?
                                   \_ Ron Paul, Huckabee, Dodd, and Gravel
                                      come to mind.  Hillary is an evil clown,
                                      Obama is a clown,  Rudy is evil, Edwards
                                      is a fraudster, Romney will say anything.
                                      I miss anyone at the top?
                                      \_ Huckabee talks out both sides of his
                                         mouth with regards to taxes, Dodd is
                                         bought at paid for by Wall Street, but
                                         bought and paid for by Wall Street, but
                                         perhaps the other two are all right.
                                         I don't know much about them except
                                         what I saw on the debate. They are
                                         both obviously willing to take
                                         upopular stances openly, so you have
                                         to respect that.
                 \_ ObBitchSlap: Gore never said he invented the Internet.
                    \_ Created vs invented
                       \_ "The Internet would not be where it is in the United
                           States without the strong support given to it and
                           related research areas by the Vice President in his
                           current role and in his earlier role as Senator."
                          -Vincent Cerf
                          \_ Because it behooves him to embarass the VP by
                             saying anything else?
                             \_ Because it's true.
                                \_ So you say.  What exactly did Gore do
                                   without which we wouldn't have google
                                   \_ High Performance Computing and
                                      Communication Act of 1991 which led to
                                      the National Information Infrastructure.
                                      Learn the history of your field, young
                                      Computer Scientist.
                                      \_ 'If it had been left to private
                                         industry, it wouldn't have happened,'
                                         Andreessen says of Gore's bill, 'at
                                         least, not until years later.'.  So,
                                         without Gore, we would be just like
                                         now but circa 2002?  With google,
                                         yahoo, web mail, browsers, etc, but
                                         no web 2.0 ajax outside of MS web
                                         outlook?  How is that different?
                                         You know the net existed then right?
                                         So he did something that eventually
                                         funded the browser a year later?  It
                                         sounds like the browser was already
                                         on it's way.  I'm not buying it,
                                         \_ this is one of the dumbest trolls
                                            I've ever seen.  -tom
                                            \_ why do you still post here?
                                         \_ Heh, w/o CCA and NII, we'd be
                                            just like ten years ago, but with
                                            BBSs. OTOH, we'd probably have
                                            kickass analog modems.
                                            \_ Hint: there was an internet
                                               before 1991.
                                               \_ Yes, and Usenet, and other
                                                  such, and you had to have
                                                  access through a school or
                                                  large company to get to it.
                                                  W/o public investment in
                                                  expanding access, you'd still
                                                  have to have an OCF account
                                                  to read your email.
                                                  \_ And as Andreesen said,
                                                     we'd be a few years
                                                     behind.  Call it five.
                                                     That puts us at 2002
                                                     which isn't a whole lot
                                                     different than today.  Or
                                                     maybe you're smarter than
                                                     he is.  We all know that
                                                     without government
                                                     nothing ever gets
                                                     invented.  Government is
                                                     the source of all
                                                     creativity and invention.
                                                     \_ you're an idiot.
                                                     \_ Andreesen said "years
                                                        later": that could
                                                        mean decades. Also,
                                                        if not for gov. invest.
                                                        there'd've been no
                                                        .com bubble and no
                                                        commesurate boost in
                                                        private spending in
                                                        infrastructure. Prog.
                                                        w/o profit is slooow.
                                                        \_ the dotcom bubble
                                                           was a good thing?
                                                           ok whatever.
                                                           \_ It led to near-
                                                              ubiquity of the
                                                              Internet. I'd
                                                              say that's more
                                                              good than bad.
                                                              \_ I'd say it
                                                              didn't.  I'd say
                                                              more computers in
                                                              more homes did
                                                     \_ The proto-Internet was
                                                        ARPAnet, run by the
                                                        DOD, and the DOD
                                                        decided it was no
                                                        longer going to
                                                        provide support for
                                                        civilian applications.
                                                        If the Internet
                                                        did not receive
                                                        funding at that point
                                                        in time, maybe
                                                        telecoms would have
                                                        done something, but
                                                        it would have been
                                                        done based on
                                                        the telecom model;
                                                        fee for service,
                                                        screw net neutrality.
                                                        The government is the
                                                        *only* entity which
                                                        could have created
                                                        the Internet as the
                                                        public resource we
                                                        know today.  -tom
                                                        \_ fee for service got
                                                           you... here it
                                                           SERVICE!  What a
                                                           shocker!  imagine
                                                           having a business
                                                           model where you
                                                           have to pay to get
                                                           stuff!  Dreadful!
                                                           \_ What are you, a
                                                              Free Market
                                                              troll, a ditto-
                                                              head troll, or
                                                              a bridge-troll?
                                                              \_ Anyone who
                                                              disagrees with
                                                              you must be a
                                                              troll.  You are
                                                              the source of all
                                                              \_ Man, took you
                                                                 long enough.
                                                           \_ Do you think the
                                                              Internet would
                                                              be better if it
                                                              worked more like
                                                              cell phone
                                                              networks?  -tom
                                                              \_ For some
                                                              definitions of
                                                              'better', yes. If
                                                              I could pay $5/m
                                                              to not get spam
                                                              I would save
                                                              money, for ex.
                                The telcos would sell you "spam  _/
                                blocking service" and then sell the
                                spammers "spam delivery guarantee
                                service" to get around the spam
                                blocking.  You'd have to buy a
                                specific computer to connect to AT+T's
                                network and it wouldn't work if you
                                wanted to switch to Sprint, and you'd
                                have a two year contract with a
                                penalty clause.  You'd also have a surcharge
                                to send mail to an off-network customer, or
                                it just wouldn't work at all.  The "cheap"
                                connectivity plan would involve huge fees for
                                any time you actually used the service, and
                                then they'd advertise "Tired of high fees?
                                Buy our unlimited plan for twice as much
                                Net neutrality and ubiquitous deployment is
                                a huge public benefit, and it could only
                                have happend through government action, and
                                Gore deserves a lot of credit for initiating
                                that action.  -tom
                                \_ You mean like how I can use my cell phone
                                   right now to call anyone and it doesn't
                                   cost me anything during nights and weekends
                                   and during the day the rate is dirt cheap,
                                   I don't get spam calls, I have a choice of
                                   hundreds of phones, and all this was brought
                                   to me by pure raw capitalist competition for
                                   my hard earned dollar.  Yeah, the phone
                                   system sure sucks.  If it was run by the
                                   government I wouldn't have a cell phone,
                                   unless I was a Senator or someone else
                                   'important' who gets a special health
                                   plan much different than what the proles
                                   get.  No thanks.  I'll pass on the socialist
                                   utopia phone system monopoly.  I'm old
                                   enough to remember Ma Bell being the only
                                   game in town.  A government monopoly on the
                                   phones would be no better.  Competition
                                   \_ Uhh, you do realize that without the
                                      government heavily regulating large
                                      chunks of the phone industry your
                                      wonderful cell phone network would
                                      be a disaster, don't you?
                    \_ The actual quote was "During my service in the United
                       States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
                       Internet."  which Declan (another Wired Alum) twisted
                       into invented.
                       \_ Hence "Created vs invented" as I said above.
                             \_ Brock is hardly a Hillary minion, unless
2007/10/7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:48253 Activity:nil 66%like:48241
10/4    Richardson says "Pull Out Now"
        http://www.csua.org/u/jnf \_ Sorry baby, I just couldn't stop.
        \_ Why? It feels better to stay inside.
           \_ Cuz I need to take a dump.
2007/10/4-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:48241 Activity:nil 66%like:48253
10/4    Richardson says "Pull Out Now"
        \_ Sorry baby, I just couldn't stop.
        \_ Why? It feels better to stay inside.
           \_ Cuz I need to take a dump.
2007/10/3-5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:48233 Activity:nil
10/3    Secessionists meeting in Tennessee
2007/10/3-5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Immigration, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48232 Activity:high
10/3    Jimmy Carter faces down Darfur officials
        He bravely ran away, away!
        \_ Would you kindly fuck off, you cowardly piece of shit? The man
           is 83 years old, and he got in a shouting match with armed men.
           His companions and the Secret Service convinced him to get in the
           car rather than continue the confrontation. If you're going to
           post something, have the nards and decency to read it first.
           \_ I did read it.  He didn't "face them down" they faced him down.
              Nothing really wrong with that, I'd leave too, but the headline
              is wrong.
           \_ Seconded.  Running away would be just scrapping the whole
              deal and not trying again.  In the real world you can't
              go on a humanitarian mission and shout your way past angry
              men with big guns.  That doesn't do any good for anyone.
              But feel free to live in your fantasy world where everything
              gets solved by swinging your big dick around and all the women
              have gravity defying 36DD breasts.
              \_ In my fantasy world, all the women have gravity-defying 32DD
                 breasts instead. -- !PP
        \_ I had the same reaction as the person above, "Hey, Carter may not
           be the POS I thought he was.. read.. read.. oh well".
        \_ He displayed infinitely more personal courage than Bush did
           after 9/11, when the Commander-In-Chief turned tail and
           disappeared into a hole.
           \_ If the President, any President, of any party, showed up at
              ground zero just to pose for the cameras, he deserves to die.
              That is the most assinine and stupid gripe you could possibly
              have.  It is the one thing that he clearly did right that day.
              \_ Did I say he should have gone to ground zero? No, I did not.
                 He could have provided some leadership though, instead of
                 being a coward.
2007/9/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48167 Activity:nil
9/24    Hillary's cackle
2007/9/19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Health/Women] UID:48111 Activity:nil 56%like:48104
9/18    Hillary Clinton is an idiot and if she insists on pushing her
Having a baby is not the only thing that can make women unhappy with their breas\
ts. The still-taboo subject of female chest hair is something that make-up artis\
t Nicola has had to learn to live with, but many women are too ashamed to admit\
they suffer from the condition. s problem is so bad that it has ruined past rela\
tionships Nicolatupid healthcare ideas as a major part of her platform then I
        will certainly not vote for her. Requiring all Americans to
        present proof of health insurance is beyond ridiculous and, to me,
        very un-American.
        \_ Well, it's also outisde the power of the Feds to do so.
           \_ So is a bunch of other things they do every day.
        \_ I am pretty sure that every Democratic presidential candidate
           has a healthcare reform platform at least as extensive as
           Hillary's. So you are voting Republican. Tell us something
           we didn't already know...
           \_ Biden doesn't. I think "healthcare reform" != "universal
2007/9/18-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48104 Activity:nil 56%like:48111
9/18    Hillary Clinton is an idiot and if she insists on pushing her
        stupid healthcare ideas as a major part of her platform then I
        will certainly not vote for her. Requiring all Americans to
        present proof of health insurance is beyond ridiculous and, to me,
        very un-American.
        \_ Well, it's also outisde the power of the Feds to do so.
           \_ So is a bunch of other things they do every day.
        \_ I am pretty sure that every Democratic presidential candidate
           has a healthcare reform platform at least as extensive as
           Hillary's. So you are voting Republican. Tell us something
           we didn't already know...
           \_ Biden doesn't. I think "healthcare reform" != "universal
2007/9/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48060 Activity:nil
9/14    Does America Want a Clinton Monarchy?  By Steven Stark
2007/9/7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:47946 Activity:nil
9/7     Norman Hsu, big Hillary fundraiser, now under indictmen,
        "falls" on trainride to Arkansas:
2007/9/7-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:47938 Activity:nil
9/7     Dems support the troops! (pre-emptively dismiss the Petraeus report)
        \_ http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1883904/posts
           "... the left is doing its usual adept job of spewing treasonous
            rhetoric over things that only exist in their Bush-hating
            conspiracy-riddled minds."
2007/9/6 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:47908 Activity:kinda low
9/6     Who would vote for Fred "old, grumpy, get off my lawn white
        guy who doesn't seem that different from the other 9 old
        grumpy white guys hoping for the repub nomination" Thompson?
        I don't get it.
        \_ Ching ching!
           UNITED STATES!@!!1!
2007/8/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:47770 Activity:high
8/27    Surprising facts: ppl with children are no happier than those who
        don't, retirees no happier than workers, pet owners no happier than
        those without pets, etc etc. Also, R happier than D, the young are
        less happy than the middle-aged and old, suburbanites are happier
        than city folks.
        \_ Why is any of this surprising?  Every choice has plusses and
        \_ You do end up happier if you're married, though, on average.
           How about that, BDG?
2007/8/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:47743 Activity:nil
8/23    Oh, hey, it WAS Clinton's fault. Oops.
2007/8/1-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/Asia/India] UID:47497 Activity:low
8/1     http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_el_pr/obama_terrorism_7
        Okay, I'm glad Obama is making actual suggestions rather than the more
        common political tactic of simply criticizing others.  However, his
        plan of taking care of business in Pakistan could be a problem if that
        nuke-armed country toppled into the hands of Muslim extremists.  I hope
        he addresses that potentiality.
        \_ Depends.  If the extremists are wiped out then there is no problem
           with Pakistan falling into their hands, eh?  I think that's what
           he's getting at.  And yes, I'm also glad to see someone finally
           saying what *they would do* instead of just attacking others.
        \_ Obama is even with Hillary C. in NH.
           \_ Please do not let that woman win the primary. There's no reason
              to have family members of recent presidents also become
              president. Out of principle we should not let it happen.
              \_ You mean like Teddy Roosevelt ---> FDR and George H. W.
                 Bush --> George W. Bush?
                 \_ Yes, like that.
                    \_ Or John Adams -> John Quincy Adams
        \_ Given Pakistan's Intel org's backing of the Taliban pre-9/11, our
           current policy of coddling Musharraf is asinine and naive. Good on
           Obama for identifying the problem. Looking forward to voting for him
           in 2008.
2007/7/31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:47476 Activity:nil
7/31    What size is Chelsea Clinton's rack?
2007/7/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:47399 Activity:nil
7/24    Clinton: 35%. Obama: 25%. Gore: 15%.
        Is Gore the new Nader? Damnit.
        \_ Gore isn't on that page, or the dem one either...
        \_ It's hard to get good numbers when you aren't even running.
        \_ Huh? These are the primary elections you are talking about right?
           What are you afraid of, that Gore will get enough votes that Clinton
           wins the nomination?
        \_ Sheesh, it's a poll.  When people actually *vote* they are not going
           to write in Gore in large numbers.  Just a few kooks.
2007/7/19-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:47347 Activity:kinda low
7/19    H. Clinton slammed by The Pentagon for talking about withdrawl:
        \_ ^The Pentagon^Dick's lackey
           \_ Because the guy who said it can't be a partisan and be right at
              the same time.  Everyone who has a different opinion is part of
              the VRWC and couldn't possibly be giving an honest assessment
              based on history and reality.
              \_ Dog bites man, no story. Man bites dog, story. Partisan hack
                 employed by administration that's taken loyalty to a whole new
                 cult level bagging on front-running opposition candidate for
                 dissing Pres.'s plans, no story.
                 \_ You can be partisan and still be telling the truth.
2007/7/18-19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:47326 Activity:high
7/17    we haven't argued about the latest useless congressional
        gesture to pull america out of Iraq and deny the simple fact
        we're gonna be there for the next 60 years like Korea/West Bank/
        Japan, is everyone on vacation?
        \_ It's 7/18 now btw
        \_ We're in the West Bank?
        \_ How about Vietnam. Iraq is more like Vietnam, at least so far...
           \_ And our troops are still there! Oh, wait....
           \_ How long were US troops in Vietnam?
              \_ Zero days after we decided to pull out.
        \_ just pointing out israel is still in the west bank.
           \_ And despite your ZOG fantasies, US != Israel.
                \_ sorry.  didnt explain.  when Israel invaded west bank
                   they said they'd only stay a short time.  They're still
                   there, much to everyone involved's pain.
                   \_ Ye-es, but WE are not THEM.
                      \_ I agree, but I'm using an example from history.
                         \_ Why *that* example, then?  How about how the
                            Gaulic tribes are *still* in France 1500 years
                            later!  The bastards!  Save France for the French!
                            Kill the Gaulic invaders!
                            \_ you probably mean "gallic" or "gaulish"
                               \_ garlic
                               \_ Why do you hate the French?  We must save
        \_ All we are asking for is an up or down vote.
        \_ Why is it "useless"? Let me guess, you are a war supporter...
           \_ Am not war supporter.  I just think we're going to be in
              Iraq F O R E V E R.
              \_ I think President Hillary Rodham Clinton will have us out
                 in less than six months after she takes office. We shall see.
                 \_ You won't see.  She's not getting elected.
                    \_ And if she does get elected she won't be able to
                       get the US out in 6 months.
                       \_ That's true, too.  She isn't exactly pushing hard on
                          the "get the troops out now" agenda.
                          \_ Not according to all the right wing newspapers.
                             I think she is just tacking to the center and
                             will get bowled over by events, after she wins.
                             \_ "... after she wins".  You're trolling or
                                drunk.  I don't care what left/right wing
                                newspapers say she says.  I read what she
                    \_ Really? Who is going to win in her stead?
                       "None of the above?"
                       \_ My dog.  Anyone with a heart beat, age 35+.  Charles
                          Manson.  Rowdy Roddy Piper.  Anyone.
                          \_ Are you the same guy who predicted that we would
                             find WMD in Iraq? Just wondering, because I am
                             predicting that Hillary will not get beaten
                             by a Republican. BTW, I predicted that we would
                             *not* find WMD in Iraq, so my record is pretty
                             curious how good your track record is.
                             \_ No.  But given the lack of serious effort put
                                into controlling the country after the attack
                                started and all the trucks rolling in various
                                directions before I wouldn't be at all
                                surprised if we hear in 30 years they were
                                there and the Bush admin decided it was less
                                stupid to have invaded and not found them than
                                invaded and let them slip away.  Now then, if
                                it was Roddy Piper vs. my dog, it'd be a really
                                interesting race.  Piper still has a lot of
                                wrestling fans, but my dog can speak English
                                better so he's going to win all 3 debates.
                             \_ The US is not ready for a female President,
                                especially a polarizing one like Clinton.
                                The Dems should push hard to make sure she
                                does not get the nomination, because if
                                she does (or if Obama does) then I predict
                                another Republican win. I have always
                                voted Democrat for President (even though I am
                                a 'decline to state') but I would not vote
                                for Hilary Clinton. I would vote for Bill,
                 \_ Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've
2007/7/6-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:47205 Activity:low
7/6     Forget about the first female future president or the first minority
        future president.  Here's the first white male future president in
        110 years.
        \_ 'Susan Bailey of Wellesley Centers for Women at Wellesley College
            said the election of a man to the PTA's top post is "exactly the
            kind of thing we would hope would happen more often."'
           Wouldn't it be great if the average American voter could say the
           same thing about a female or minority POTUS?
        \_ Forget the 'First' anything.  The first minority was already elected
           when Kennedy got in, btw.  I don't give a fig about 'First XYZ'
           based on color or gender.  I want honest, competent people in
           office who give a shit, not power mad selfish people who just might
           also happen to be a 'First' or not and I don't care what their
           'party' is.  Currently not seeing anyone running who fits the
           description though, sadly.  That would be my 'First': honest,
           competent, not there for their ego or the personal power, looking
           out for Americans first, not the rest of the world before the
           people who elected them.
           \_ But ask the average joe whether he thinks Kennedy is a minority.
              Look at the Irish community in SF.  Their need as a minority
              group has been largely ignored.
              \_ Ask anyone at the time if Kennedy was a minority.  It was a
                 *huge* big deal at the time and everyone said there was no
                 way a Catholic could get elected and the country just wasn't
                 ready for a Catholic POTUS.  I'm not sure what your point is
                 about SF Irish.
                 \_ Like you said, "at the time".  The average joe nowadays
                    knows more about Paris Hilton's sex life than about US
                    \_ It doesn't matter if it was 'at the time' and no longer
                       true.  The fact that Kennedy was the 'First' Catholic
                       puts to rest all further claims of 'a Catholic can
                       never be elected POTUS' because obviously that is not
                       true *after* Kennedy was elected.  This isn't a history
                       quiz and has nothing to do with what the average joe
                       knows about Kennedy.  I don't understand why you bring
                       that up.  I still want an honest, competent person in
                       office of any race/gender/whatever/bullshit and I'm not
                       getting it.  Being a female, a minority, a Catholic, a
                       white, a black, a purple, or anything else does not
                       make for a better -or- worse POTUS.  The content of
                       their character is what matters, not the color of their
          \_ Romney.  Extremely competent, detail oriented, and honest.
2007/7/6-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:47186 Activity:nil
7/6     Damn this Bush economy!
        \_ Another piddling job growth report that beat expectations... Great.
           Let me know when wages grow along with productivity, and when the
           savings rate is positive again.  Wake me when job growth meets
           population growth... Go go bushonomics
        \_ Tax Cuts and the Not So Great Economy (Economist's View)
           \_ This has exactly crap to do with the article.  And this putz
              points to negative job growth and decreasing GDP after 2001 and
              blames the tax cuts?!  No mention of, say, other events in 2001?
              to the
        \_ Jared Bernstein, senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute,
           a Washington think tank, noted the participation rate has fallen
           especially sharply for young people, blacks and Hispanics, groups
           who are especially sensitive to the economys ups and downs.
           If those missing workers were reported as unemployed, the jobless
           rate would be 5% instead of 4.5%, he said in a report.
           \_ Sure.  A Left think tanker says "which do you believe, me or the
        \_ Damn these tax and spend Democrats in charge of Congress and their
           nearly instanteous good effect on the economy!
2007/6/30-7/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:47135 Activity:nil
6/30    Democrats, not very popular:
        \- anybody who compares the approval ratings between the
           president and congress is either stupid or disingenuous.
           to say "congress's rating have slid more in the last
           6mos while the president's rating have gone up" might
           be meaningful, but the only virtue of comments like this
           "President Bush is doing terribly -- an average of 30 percent
           job approval in six recent polls. Congress is doing worse --
           25 percent on the average in five polls." is to signal you can
           add this dood to your KILL file. that article is the journalistic
           equivalent of a college paper with the thesis "the iliad
           is a poem by homer about the trojan war, which was difficult."
           \- see also:
        \_ The only poll that matters happens in November every two years.
2007/6/21-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:47032 Activity:high
6/21    Bush at 26% in Newsweek poll
        \_ That's not too bad. Compare that to Nixon's:
           http://preview.tinyurl.com/eytw5 (cbsnews.com)
           Keep in mind this is from CBS, liberal Jewish media.
           \_ Thanks for invalidating anything else you have to say.
        \_ I don't think he cares.  Why should he?
           \_ maybe because he is supposed to be a representative of the
              \_ He is. The people are idiots and so is he. I don't see why
                 people's opinions changed. What is different now? A lot of us
                 disapproved of him from the beginning. And, you know, didn't
                 vote for him. Now all these Johnny come latelys want to be
                 cool like us. But it's too late. We moved on to disapproving
                 of the mainstream primary frontrunners.
                 \_ Pft!  I've already dismissed them all and moved on to
                    disapproving of the second and third tier candidates as
                    well as several who aren't even rumored to be interested in
                    running.  -Johnnt C. L.
             \_ He still has things he is trying to get accomplished and it
                is hard to get Congress to listen to him when he is so
                unpopular. Most politicians care about something called
                their "legacy" as well, and every indication is that Bush
                cares, too.  So sorry, he probably cares. Maybe his
                supporters (like you?) do not.
                \_ His current goal appears to be to veto everything and keep
                   the investigations off his back until he can get out of
             \_ IANARepublican, but think about it: ~43% of Americans voted in
                the last Presidential election, and W got about 50% of the
                vote, so, hey, 26% is pretty good for him.
                \_ You might want to check the assumptions in your math
                   there sonny.
                   \_ 50% of 43% =~21.5% < 26%. I'd say my math assumptions,
                      faulty as they are, are probably more accurate than
                      those of the POTUS.
                      \_ You're making the assumption that the set of W
                         supporters is a subset of the 2004 presidential
                         voters.  You'll have to justify that assumption
                         \_ he's also making the assumption that 100% of
                            the country responded to this poll.  -tom
                            \_ You're both right, but you're missing my
                               (feeble) point, which is that the POTUS thinks
                               like this.
              \_ Maybe he was when he was elected, but now that he *IS* elected
                 and that due to term limites, he can't be re-elected,  why
                 should he care any more? Lame duck presidency FTL.
                 \_ I loved the comedy central clip where GWB 2000 'debated'
                    GWB 'current', especially the total reverse on intervening
                    in other  nations and 'nation building'.
        \_ Mission Accomlished!
        \_ Congress at 14% (below HMOs at 15%)
           \_ For "confidence", not "approval".
           \_ For "confidence", not "approval". And from a different poll.
              \_ OP didn't say "approval".
                 \_ The article did.  Sure, blame your reading comprehension
                    issues on the OP
                    \_ I was making a point.  I read the article.
                       \_ How is saying "apples are not oranges" a point?
              \_ Isn't low confidence worse than low approval? I might not
                 approve of the job someone is doing, but I might still have
                 confidence that they will improve. Low confidence seems to
                 imply to me that not only does one disapprove of the job
                 someone is doing but also that they've lost any hope that
                 they will improve.
                 \_ Read a few polls and see how the two numbers tend to
                    relate.  Motd will not do your homework for you.
                    \_ I'll take that as a yes then. So, the American people
                       feel more negativity towards Congress than the President
                       \_ Take that as a yes.  Continue in obstinate ignorance.
                          \_ This only validates my assumption further. If it
                             really is a false assumption, you wouldn't have
                             been this much of an ass about it.
                       \_ Congress is always lower.  You can hate the
                          bastards but not hate YOUR bastard.  The president,
                          however, is all or nothing.
        \_ How does that compare to Carter?
           \_ The cbsnews link in the first reply will tell you.  Other than
              that, learn to use google.
              \_ No, it does not. Other than that, have you heard of the
                 Socratic technique?
                 \_ Oop.  It wasn't in that article.  It was in another blog
                    post.  Carter's lowest was 28% in '79.
2007/6/19-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:47006 Activity:kinda low
6/19    Hillary Clinton's campaign theme song is a Celine Dion tune.
        Now I can't vote for her.
        \_ Obama's is "Think" by Aretha Franklin.  which is about a man
           cheating on a woman.  Do you think Obama is trying to enrage
           the Hillary?
           http://preview.tinyurl.com/yogl75 (lyrics007.com)
        \_ "You And I"
        \_ Blame Canada
        \_ Why not?
        \_ Lieberman's is LETS HAVE A WAR
           \_ The first candidate that chooses "TV Party" as their theme
              song gets my vote.
              \_ This is like Michael Moore saying he'd support the first
                 candidate to dance in a moshpit: you're going to end up
                 endorsing Alan Keyes. http://csua.org/u/iz7 (Michael Moore)
        \_ Bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran -- McCain
2007/6/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:46992 Activity:high
6/13    Spielberg endorses Hillary.
        \_ How is this any suprise?  This Clintons, like Obama and Gore
           are owned by Jews and products of finance and media Jews.
           are owned by Jews and products of finance and media Jews. -jblack
        \_ [racist troll deleted]
        \_ [racist troll deleted, twice]
                \_ how is it racist to point out that the Democratic party
                   is wholly controlled by individuals who own the media
                   and sectors of finance, and who constitute a tiny fraction
                   of a tenth of a percent of the population?  I am telling
                   you who your master's are, even though you are too
                   blind to see it.
        \_ Why would *anyone* outside Hillary's campaign care?  Anyone who
           votes based on Spielberg's "endorsement" is too stupid to live.
2007/6/15-19 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:46976 Activity:low
6/15    Hilary has *no* *chance* in 2008, I read it in the motd:
        http://www.csua.org/u/ixn (WSJ)
        \_ At a glance, which one of the candidates _does_ have a chance?
           \_ Cthulhu 2008. Why vote for a lesser evil?
        \_ Clinton with Obama VP would be an interesting combo I think.
           Still, the only thing that matters is when you get down to
           election day. That's pretty far off yet and I think a lot of
           states may not really vote Democrat when we get down to it,
           or vote for a woman CIC etc etc.
        \_ I do not think Hilary can win. I think it's because she's a
           woman and a polarizing one at that. I never vote Republican,
           but I don't think I'd vote for her. I'd probably vote for a
           3rd party candidate.
           \_ A lot has to do with who her opposition is at the time.
              If the GOP pushes forward a Spiro Agnew, she might not need much
              more than the votes of the faithful to win.
              If the GOP pushes forward a Spiro Agnew, she might not
              need much more than the votes of the faithful to win.
              \_ Spiro Agnew -> grow a penis
              \_ Someone's going to win, and none of the candidates are strong.
                 Sort of like a 'lesser evil' vote, the winner will be the
                 least weak.
                 \_ So far, the GOP has given us adulterers, flip-floppers,
                    and cranky old men. Oh, and Ron Paul. Which of these is
                    lesser evil you speak of?
2007/6/15-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:46971 Activity:nil 92%like:46962
6/15    Good old Matt Drudge, font of accuracy!
        http://urltea.com/s2x (electioncentral.tpmcafe.com)
2007/6/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:46967 Activity:nil
6/15    Google hits:
        Barack Obama: 1.85M
        Barack Hussein Obama: 116k
        Hillary Clinton: 4.4M
        Hillary Rodham Clinton: 1.4M
        For some reason, Hillary's middle name is used a lot more than other
        people's. About 5 times more than Barack's middle name. It's not like
        anyone needs the extra differentiation from the other Hillary Clintons
        out there. What's up with that?
        John Sidney McCain: 9k, John McCain: 1.9M
        \_ It's her maiden name, not her middle name. Same with
           Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Sandra Day O'Connor, etc.
           \_ Ah.
2007/6/15-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:46965 Activity:nil
6/15    kchang why doesn't csua motd site have RSS feed?
        \_ Someone else already wrote one. Talk to Misha(sp?).
           Besides rss feed is good when you have sequential timestamped
           messages whereas motd is mostly threaded, making it awkward to
           represent on rss. If you have alternative ideas, shoot. In the
           mean time I'm content using http://csua.com/24/?incr=1&local=0
2007/6/15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:46962 Activity:nil 92%like:46971
6/15    Good old Matt Drudge, font of accuracy!
2022/06/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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