Politics Domestic President Clinton - Berkeley CSUA MOTD
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2021/12/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/6/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:28689 Activity:nil
6/9     http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/10/books/10KAKU.html?ex=1055822400&en=fdd25594a0801303&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
        I'm glad Hillary finally got a chance to explain her side and did it
        so well.  She finally got her chance to put those rat bastards in their
        place.  This is a *great* book review.  Read the review even if you
        don't read the book.  Hillary/Gore '04!!!
2003/6/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:28672 Activity:nil
6/8     Hillary Clinton hates American Soldiers:
        \_ Neocons can't even bother to lie straight anymore:
        \_ After all it Biille Clintoon who wrote how he 'loathed'
           the military while at Oxford.
2003/6/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:28653 Activity:high
6/6     http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88691,00.html shows Bush would
        easily beat Clinton (either) or any of the 7 (D)warves.  Read em and
        weep, kids.
        \_ must...resist...troll...must..resist
           \_ must...resist...reality...must...deny...facts...resist
                \_ wow, an incumbent president, go figure
                 \_ not to mention vs. someone who isn't campaigning at all.
                    \_ engaging reality distortion field... NOW!  There are
                       7+ people on that poll campaigning right now, most of
                       whom don't even exist to the bulk of the populous.
                        \_ I was refering to clinton, the person with the
                           name regonition on that poll who isn't Bush.
                           Oh by the way, in 1991 there was a Bush in the
                           White House everyone said could not be beat, and
                           there was someone pathetic little cracker from
                           Arkansas who was running the Democrat primaries
                           who had single digit name recognition.  All
                           conventional wisdom was that the best he could
                           hope for was to survive through the first few
                           primaries before reallity hit him and he'd drop out.
                           Funny how life works.
                           \_ missing point: the only person on there anyone
                              knows is the previous president and they wouldn't
                              vote for him anyway.  4 more years, kids!
        \_ and Dubya isn't worried about 2004!
2003/4/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:28041 Activity:nil
4/8     The good ole days:
        \_ yes, though helped by the 4 year roth conversions in 98 and
           a roaring stock market.  Would have ended with Gore.
2003/3/31-4/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27919 Activity:high
3/30    Can anyone recommend a good book about Bill Clinton? It can be
        about any aspect of his life...pre/post-presidency, presidency,
        his life in general, etc. Thanks.
        \- YMWTR: No One Left to Lie To: The Triangulations of
                  William Jefferson Clinton
           Ok tnx. --psb
                \_ What is YMWTR?
                   \_ you may want to read.  --!psb
                      \- ^want^wish --psb
                         \_ LOL. YMMV.
        \_ "Stroke of the Pen, Law of the Land, Cool", autobiography of WJC
                               \- The book "The Law of the Land", by
                                  Charles Rembar is a really really good
                                  book. Rembar was an interesting fellow.--psb
        \_ Betrayal: How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security
           by Bill Gertz
           The China Threat: How the People's Republic Targets America
           Absolute Power: The Legacy of Corruption in the
           Clinton-Reno Justice Department - by David Limbaugh.  Basically
           a rehash of newpaper stories during his tenure.
           Ask yourself this - how, in the past 20 years has China procured
           all seven of our nuclear warhead designs.
           \_ Clinton!  Maybe Bush Sr.  Reagan?  No, Reagan wouldn't let that
                \_ Read the Cox report, Reagan did not know, Clinton
                   knew and did nothing about it.  Bush may have been at some
                   \_ Where in the report does it say, "It was Clinton's
                        \_ You're right, George W. Bush as Governor of Texas
                           and private citizen was completely responsible.
                           \_ While we're at it, where does it say,
                              "Reagan didn't know about it, and Bush
                              may have been at fault."
2003/3/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27787 Activity:high
3/21    How many people think that we'll have another 9/11 as the result of
        this invasion of Iraq?
        \_ the CIA, Bush and Ridge, for three.  -tom
           \_ they're pretty much counting on it. "terrorism" is the new
              bogeyman now that communism is dead, and they're going to
              milk it for all the mindless fear they can, for political
              gain. --aaron
              \_ Aaron, by bogeyman you mean that it's an imaginary threat.
                 Are you implying neither communism nor terrorism are
                 dangerous, and need not be dealt with?
              \_ GO PAT! GO!
        \_ Just the left wing nutters who hate Bush and all Republicans just
           because and with such passion it makes Clinton bashing look tame.
           \_ "Just because?" Keep telling yourself that.
              \_ Ok, ok, it's because the right disagrees with the left so
                 that makes the right automatically evil.  happy?
                 \_ Don't get out much, do you?
                    \_ Is that it?  That's the best you can come up with?  Why
                       did you bother at all?  Here's how the rest would go
                       in your world, "Yes, I do", "No, you don't",  repeat
                       until graduated from 3rd grade.
                       \_ Go read a newspaper, fool.
                          \_ ausman, try harder.  i normally dont name names
                             but really.
                             \_ Bite me. Anyone who cannot think of one reason
                                why Bush might be disliked other than "just
                                because" is not worth nor capable of reasoned
                                debate. -ausman
                                \_ "hate Bush and all Republicans just because
                                    and with such passion that [....]"  Talk
                                    about dishonest debating.  The text is
                                    still up there and you're already trying
                                    to rewrite what was said.  sheesh.
           \_ Heh, I WISH Bush would get a blowjob.  It might make him
              mellow out.  But hey, this is what you get when you have
              a cokehead in office after a stoner.
              \_ no one cares about the bj.  you *really* need someone to post
                 a list of all his treasonous actions?  sheesh, i thought we
                 were done with that.
                 \_ In spite of the hundreds of millions spent smearing
                    his name Clinton was still came in fourth as "Best
                    American President" in the most recent Gallup polls.
                    All your lies are not working.
                    \_ Starr's whole thing was roughly $40m which is less than
                       Clinton's vacation with Chelsea to Pakistan & India at
                       the end of his second term.
                    \_ I agree. Anything gallup says is good.  See my link
                       at the current top of the motd.
        \_ the people actually fighting the war on terrorism think so:
2003/3/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27698 Activity:high
3/13    Evidence that even a University Medal winner can be a demagogue:
        Still, if I had to choose between being a Bush Republican or a
        Clinton liberal, I still prefer the latter.
        \_ Right, exactly how do you think we got in the mess we are in
           today.  Because someone did not have the political will
           or backbone to face pending crisis in foreign affairs.  We were
           attacked FIVE times in the 90's.  This is unamed person was
           too busy jerking off in the oval office sink.
           The peace dividend was completely wasted.
           \_ A Bush Republican, case in point.
                \_ Sorry, I don't like Bush - he domestic policy
                   is liberal.  In foreign affairs, he has performed
                   impecably.  Ask youself why clinton had to take
                   Cohen, a Republican (albeit RINO), for Secretary of
                   Defense.  Please, list for me Clinton's foreign
                   policy successes.
                   \_ The main idea is that the Bush administration is
                      performing so terribly in foreign policy that you
                      don't really need to compare.  Let's put it this way:
                      If Clinton gets a B- in international issues (B being
                      what an average president should succeed with),
                      the Bush administration is getting a C- or below.
                      (I emphasize Bush *administration*, because the
                      brightest bulb is not necessarily at the top.)
                        \_ Ok, in your dream world what would Gore do.
                           If the socialist intellectuals in France, Germany
                           and Communists in China and Russia are pissed
                           off, we must be doing something right.  Bush
                           is a leading.  Exactly how do you think
                           1441 was passed, by making concessions and
                           protesting for peace?
                           \_ In your GW Bush black and white, good and evil
                              world, it's a success to alienate our allies.
                                \_ Alienate France and Russia who have
                                   multi-billion financial interests
                                   in Iraq.  Based on their unassailable
                                   conduct of generosity and ethics in the
                                   past I'm certain their actions
                                   bear no relation to their own self-
                              Gore and Clinton could have passed 1441 --
                              everyone, frankly, is fine with renewed
                              inspections.  Have you also considered how
                              likely it may be that Iraq is not a threat
                              with inspectors present?  And that if Iraq
                              kicks them out again, passing a resolution
                              authorizing force would be much easier?
                                \_ Some allies, France continues to send
                                   parts for Mirage fighters and helicopters.
                                   Exactly how, under the sanctions in
                                   place, was France able to engage in 10
                                   billion dollars in 90's and negotiate
                                   for 50 billion $ oil development
                                   contracts.   Iraq's entire airforce
                                   in French and Russian.
                         \_ Please list for me Clinton's successes that
                            strenthened US national security.
                            The silence deafening.
                            \_ Sir, do you get the point?  Even if Clinton
                               had absolutely no successes, it doesn't even
                               compare to the failures that the Bush
                               administration continues to draw.
                                 \_ Evidently I don't have the sophistication
                                    to appreciate your point of view.  I
                                    suppose I'm relegated to just
                                    considering facts.
                                    \_ and those facts are ...?
                            \_ A nations long term security depends on
                               the strength of its economy, especially
                               vis a vis its potential enemies. Clinton
                               avoided foreign entanglement while growing
                               the economy domestically faster than any
                               of our potential enemies except China. He
                               was at least moderately successful.
                                \_ Ok, please specifically enumerate
                                   the legislation Clinton solely sponsored
                                   that gave us the economy. And I suppose
                                   the recession we are in has nothing
                                   to do with the speculative nature and
                                   excesses of that economy?
                                   \_ The most spectacular corporate
                                      instances of corruption and failure
                                      all have strong ties to Republican
                                      political influence.  WorldCom,
                                      Enron, price fixing on energy
                                      prices... ringing a bell?
                                        \_ Please tell that to Robert
                                           Rubin and Ron Brown.  I find
                                           it saddening that this started
                                           as a discussion of foreign
                                           policy and you have deliberately
                                           tried to change the subject
                                           for lack of credible argument.
        \_ Anyways, like I said, case in point:  Bush Republican.  The
           basic problem with Republicans today is that they're just
           so high up on a moral superiority righteous liberals are stupid to
           hell with everyone else attitude.
                \_ Its funny that even after Clinton was the worst
                   President since FDR his acolytes fight to get in line
                   on their knees to felate him.
                   \_ Go back to watching the Fox News channel.
2003/3/13 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27685 Activity:nil
3/12    Beijing plans to use North Korea to help drive the US
        out of the Pacific - courtesy of FR
        \_ The author is truly a man ahead of his time.
2021/12/03 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular

2003/3/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27660 Activity:high
3/11    National Do-Not-Call law signed by Bush (slashdot).  Serious
        question: what was the last law that was actually aimed at helping
        ordinary people-- something that made you say, "gee, that has
        slightly improved my life"?
        \_ tax cuts
           \_ bingo!  we have a winner!
              \_ actually, the tax cuts have significantly improved my life.
                 \_ Hope you don't live in the unincorporated south bay
                    which will soon not have sheriff patrols because the
                    county can't afford it.  Who needs govt servies??
                 \_ You must live a pathetic life if a 5 or 10% raise
                    significantly improves it. What, you couldn't afford
                    hookers before, and now you can?
        \_ while it was not a law, i certainly applaud clinton's effort to
           destigmatize oral sex.
           \_ dunno about the destigmatization, but i sure do give interns
              a second and third glance nowadays.
        \_ The medical marijuana law improved my life, until Ashcroft
           started stomping all over states rights.
2003/2/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:27498 Activity:very high
2/22    The BBC & The Perils Of Reporting From The Islamic Republic Of Iran
        Plus 12 minutes video
        Thank you jimmy carter and ramsey clark.
        \_ really, it was carter who sold arms to Khomeni to help him
           suppress rebellions?
                \_ no, you must be thinking of Bill Clinton who bought
                   them from Iran to arm the mujahideen in Bosnia
                   and Kosovo.
           \_ Carter is secretly a radical islamic terrorist who masterminded
              the whole thing. I think he has something to do with Al Qeada too.
                \_ We saw some of his (and Bill's) handiwork in
                   North Korea too. Please pick up a history book.
        \_ http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_27.htm
                \_ LOL I love when people post this.  Carter himself
                   tried to lavishly bribe the 5 or so Sandinista
                   generals to woo them to the US.  Of source, we know
                   generals to woo them to the US.  Of course, we know
                   delegated to the President.
                   the result.  Incidentally, war powers are explicitly
                   delegated to the President.  Of the 200+ conflicts
                   since the founding of the Republic Congress has
                   declared war ~ 5 times.
                   The overt funding by the Soviets to the Sandinistas
                   was well in excess of 1 Billion.  As a proxy for the
                   Soviets, Castro had a large military advisory
                   and fighting contigent there as well (not to mention
                   angola and elsewhere in africa)
                   Right back at ya:
                   Clinton Approved Iranian Arms Transfers Help Turn
                   Bosnia into Militant Islamic Base
                   \_ What does any of that have to do with Iran?
                      Please try to stay on topic.
                        \_ the topic is Republican administrations providing
                           arms to Iran, and the freepers don't want to
                           talk about that.
                           \_ Under the Democrats People exploit people
                              Under the Republicans it's the exact opposite
2003/2/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27490 Activity:high
2/22    Is The New Republic supposed to be conservative or liberal? Someone
        told me it was very conservative, but I just read a very anti-Bush
        article by their editor in the LA Times...
        \_ Bush isn't a conservative.  He's a raving liberal, and an idiot
          to boot.  "Compassionate conservatism" my ass.  He's just another
          poll-swinging kiss-ass spineless political monkey, and given the
          current electorate, that means a liberal.
        \_ I don't read TNR.  However, I consider myself a real conservative.
           Bush isn't a real conservative.  I'm pretty unhappy with a lot of
           his (over)spending policies, his no-border policy with Mexico and
           a few lesser issues.  He's a better choice than that wooden block
           head Gore, but not by much.  Hope that helps.
        \_ Bush isn't a conservative.  "Compassionate conservatism" my ass.
           He's just another poll-swinging kiss-ass spineless political monkey,
           and given the current electorate, that means a liberal.
           --Real Conservative
           \_ I thought Real Conservatives were isolationists.  Bush is
              trying to be Emperor of the World.
            \_ I agree... but to address the question, the New Republic
               is liberal, very liberal sometimes, moderately liberal
               others.  I believe the NR editor is gay so he is scared of
               Islam.  Actually, all mainstream news and entertainment
                 \_ I believe you are an idiot so you are scared of people
                    who think.
               organization are liberal except fox, washington times, few
               others.  If you want conservative thought read Jewish
               World Review, Worldnetdaily, Weekly Standard, National
                \_ oh yes, AOL, GE, Microsoft, Viacom--these are the bastions
                   of liberal thought in our age.  (Exactly who do you think
                   owns "mainstream news"?)  -tom
                   \_ When 90% of the people who report the news (in the major
                      networks) vote Democrat, it's pretty hard to deny a bias.
                      \_ Don't bring facts into it.  You'll just hurt tom's
                         feelings and get the whole thread deleted.
                        \_ oh, "facts," right.  Here's a "fact"; 90% of the
                           people who report the news in the major networks
                           vote Republican.  So there!  -tom
                      \_ Your 90% figure is crap. Here are the real numbers:
                         most journalists are centrist and independent.
                   \_ thats such hogwash.  As if Bill Gates tells some random
                      low life journalist or bottom feeding editor what to
                      write.  You're such a clown.  You're drowning in your
                      own freaky ultra leftism.
        \_ To answer your question, The New Republic considers itself liberal,
           but publishes stories from all sides of the poliical spectrum. For
           some reason they really hated Clinton. Perhaps they just like
           being the voice of the opposition.
2003/2/18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:27448 Activity:very high
2/17    I always like to hear voice of different source.  Titled:
        Bush's sabre-rattling linked to self-interest
        \_ I am a dyed-in-the-wool Bush-hater, and it would gall me to no
           end if all this came to pass, because this is exactly what I
           think would actually bring a semblance of reform to the Middle
           East.  And I would have this person, whom I hate, both rationally
           and irrationally, so don't bother to try to convert me, to thank
           for it.  --erikred
           \_ Do you hate Clinton, erikred?
              \_ No, but I don't delude myself that he was a saint, either. --e
                 \_ So my question to you is, why do you hate Bush, but not
                    Clinton.  Clinton seems so far more evil.
                    \_ If you'd really like to know, email me.  --erikred
                        \_ Please post it.
                           \_ Resist! Don't do it! Leave the troll alone for
                              the good of the motd and humankind at large.
                              \_ Done. --erikred
                                 \_ Sorry, I don't get it, why are you willing
                                    to talk over e-mail, but not over motd.
                                    I mean even if you e-mail me, I ll post it
                                    here anyways.
        \_ These arguments are rhetorical.  These justifications are obvious,
           right?  It's too bad Bush is not a conservative.
           \_ He's not a conservative but he's closer to the real thing than
              Gore's make over artists could ever dream.
2003/2/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27405 Activity:nil
2/13    The Passion of Joschka Fischer:From the radicalism of the '60s
        to the interventionism of the '90s.
        No wonder Clinton got along so well with these people.
2003/2/7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27340 Activity:nil
2/7     "Republicans are a frightening bunch" according to psb's
        favrorite rag, the Economist:
        \_ The Economist is also in strong support of the war, even w/o the UN
           \_ Frankly, who cares what the UN has to say anyway?  It's not as if
              the existence of the UN has ended suffering around the planet or
              resolved much of anything in over 50 years of sucking money from
              every country on the planet.
2003/2/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27307 Activity:high
2/5     Missile Technology Sent to China
        \_ either it's a scoop, or there's less here than meets the eye.
           thanks for introducing a new conserva-mag, though.
        \_ Bush is just as corrupt as Clinton.
           \_ But he's corrupted by good, honest, red-blooded Americans.
              Not by those ugly yellow devils.
              \_ And by "red-blooded Americans", do you mean those rich
                 terrorist-sponsoring Saudi millionaires or the red-neck
           \_ Not even close - Clinton is far worse than Nixon, for example.
              Clinton repeatedly sold out the security of the country for his
              own personal and his associates gain.
              \_ do you believe your own bullshit?
                \_ All you have to do is search on the net - this information
                   is very easy to find - search China / campaign
                   finance scandals 1992, 1996.  If you want to perpetuate
                   self-deception, there's nothing that can be done
                   to change your mind.
                   \_ If I write an article claiming that Clinton sold
                      secrets to China, post it on the web so that google
                      search-bots can pick it up and people like you can
                      type in "China / campaign finance scandals 1992 1996"
                      in the search box and find articles to support their
                      own forgone conclusions, does that make the article
                        \_ LOL, so it never happened? That explains why
                           the DNC has returned millions of dollars and paid
                           comparable fines to FEC.  And why Loral Space /
                           Hughes paid fines for gross violations of
                           technology export restrictions. Thats why CLinton
                           moved oversight of technology exports from
                           the Pentagon to Ron Browns Commerce Department.
                           Like I said, stick your head in the sand and you
                           believe what you want.  This country has
                           never seen a traitor like Clinton.
                           \_ So why is Bush allowing this to continue?
                              In case you didn't read the article, this
                              was recent news.
                                \_ Because Bush is Clinton-lite, without
                                   the rampant corruption.  No one ever
                                   accused Bush of being conservative.
                                   Its a good question.
                              \_ The technology transfer took place in 1995
                                 when the operations were "duplicated in
                                 China".  The damage has been done.
                                 Be honest.  When someone scores a direct
                                 hit with a sound fact, show some humility
                                 and admit.  Even Gorbachev is on the
                                 record with the assertion that communist
                                 governments routinely lie.  In the last
                                 days of the Soviet Union, their leaders
                                 were anxious over getting enough
                                 pantyhose to the country's women.
                                 Communism/Marxism = collosial failures
                                 and the partial failures of Socialism
                                 and Liberalism and the Democratic party
                                 will also fail insofar as they cling to
                                 the ravings of the once insane Karl Marx.
                                 Marx couldn't even keep two of his sons
                                 from dying he was so stupid and absorbed
                                 by the garbage of the "struggle".
2003/1/31 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27254 Activity:nil
1/30    Clinton Was Sued for Intimidating Black Voters in Arkansas
2003/1/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Reference/Military] UID:27175 Activity:high
1/21    Your favorite former weapons inspector gets arrested for trying to lure
        16 year old he met online to meet him.  I'm sure he's a decent guy who
        just means well.  Probably got confused and thought SH's WMD were
        possibly hidden under her skirt or something.  Another Clinton era
        flunky goes down in flames.
        \_ i think the lesson here is that if you are going to be an outspoken
           critic of the administration, don't go trolling for sex with minors
           \_ no.  the lesson here is don't go trolling for sex with minors
           \_ No.  the lesson here is if you are an outspoken critic of the
              administration you will get framed for trolling for sex with
              minors.  Duh!
              \_ You think he was framed?  Where can I get some of what you're
                 smoking?  Re-read Catcher in the Rye recently?
              \_ Oh come on, tell me you wouldn't want to play "find the
                 weapons stash" with a 16 y.o. hottie, if you had the chance.
                 \_ 20 year olds are too damn young for me these days.  I don't
                    think I could get it up for a 16 year old.
                    \_ For me, it all depends on the body and then look.
                 \_ ok then: I wouldn't want to play "find the weapons stash"
                    with a 16 y.o. hottie, or any other 16 y.o.
                       \_ Maybe I should repost the pic of the Raelian high
                          priest clone-aid woman for you?
2003/1/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:27159 Activity:very high
1/20    ok so settle this bet for me, who has the constitutional
        authority to declare war, the president or Congress?
        \_ Google: "constitution, declare war"
        \_ we haven't been in a war since WWII
           \_ Well, I belive congress passed a resolution declaring war
              on Iraq, so that's technically not true.
              \_ Are you stupid or just stupid?
                 \_ neither, actually.  have a cookie, troll.
        \_ A useful reference: "War declaration replaced by '73 law"
        \_ This issue involves a subtle distinction:
           Congress has the sole authority to *declare* war, but
           the President, as Commander in Chief, has the sole authority to
           to order US troops into combat.  Obviously this can lead to
           some confusion due to the overlapping roles.  The US has engaged
           in armed conflict at the President's behest on many occasions
           in the last half century, but War has not officially been declared
           since 1941 after Japan attacked the US Fleet in Hawaii.
           Even the authorization to use military force in the wake of the
           September 11th attacks was not a declaration of war.
           \_ Followup question: under what conditions may martial law
              be declared? -geordan
              \_ Martial law is easy to declare.
           \_ The war powers act allows the president to order military action
              for 60 days without congressional anything.  Tom Campbell (in the
              House at the time, but ran to replace Feinstein) filed a lawsuit
              against Clinton when he had troops in Kosovo longer than 60 days
              with no congressional support.
              \_ thank you for saving me from posting this
              \_ "Police actions" are okay for the president to act upon.
2003/1/17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:27133 Activity:nil
1/16    Puerto Rico governor says U.S. shouldn't close Vieques base
        freep what you sow.
2003/1/15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27103 Activity:high
1/14    Clinton and Chinese Missiles
        "... Hughes Space and Communications Company of violating U.S.
        national security 123 times by knowingly sending detailed missile
        and space technology directly to the Chinese army."
        \_ Was Cliton CEO of Hughes? I never knew that.
           \_ His administration approved it all.
              \_ Yeah yeah. Reagan and Bush admins approved the sale of
                 chemical weapons to Iraq. LBJ and Nixon bombed Cambodia
                 and Kennedy played brinksmanship with nukes. So what?
        \_ Hughes CEO should get arrested, lock him up in solitary
           confinement, shackle him from the waist down for 9 month for
           this.  Wen-Ho Lee got that treatment without even do that.
2003/1/8-9 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:27035 Activity:insanely high
1/8     Question for "conservative" sodans: If government is supposed to
        be run like a business, which implies fiscal responsibility and
        trying to make some kind of profit, why do republicans always run
        up a deficit when in power and leave it to democrats to clean up
        afterwards?  Wasn't there a budget surplus before G.W. took
        office?  Censor away, conservatives.
        \_ Why do you put conservative in quotes?  I don't put "liberal" in
           quotes.  Doesn't it look weird to see "liberal" in quotes?  I
           think it does.  --conservative before it was cool to be conservative
        \_ You're begging the question, troll boy.  The market was already in
           a freefall and the economy already sliding bigtime down hill before
           Bush took office.
           \_ That's no reason to make it worse, dumbass.
              \_ Make it worse by what, troll boy?  Maybe he should've raised
                 taxes in a recession.  No cookie, kiddo.
        \_ Hadn't the economy started to go down before Clinton left office?
           \_ Hadn't the economy started to go down before Clinton
              entered office? Daddy Bush?
              It's all politics. Conservatives are for personal freedom
              and responsibility, yet they want to legislate abortion and
              gays and whatnot. The preach "hands-off" free-market on one
              hand and then govt legislating morality and flag-jesus worship
              onthe other hand.
                \_ don't forget grants to corporations disguised
                    as programs to keep them more competitive!
              \_ four quadrants:
                        fiscal conservative, social conservative -> Republican
                        fiscal conservative, social liberal, -> Libertarian
                        fiscal liberal, social conservative,
                        fiscal liberal, social conservative -> Reaganite
                        fiscal liberal, social liberal -> Democrat
                        \_ misleading.Both parties are fiscal liberals, they
                           both like to spend. One spends on the rich, other
                           spends on the poor.
                           \_ wanting a tax cut is not spending
                              \_ Building a huge military is spending.
                                 \_ two issues: tax cut and how you
                                    divide spending.  conservatives
                                    want tax cuts.  How they spend
                                    is another matter.
                                    \_ Clinton decreased government spending
                                       as a percentage of GNP. Reagan did not.
                                       As far as I know, no Republican actually
                                       has, in spite of all the hot air:
                 \_ Whoa!  I'm a fiscal conservative and social liberal but
                    I am certainly *not* a libertarian!
                    \_ then what is your affiliation?
                       \_ I see myself as a real conservative which means small
                          government.  Small government means the government
                          basically stays out of people's lives but not in the
                          insane and extremist way the Libertarians want.  I'm
                          not insane.  I just don't want a bloated government
                          stealing my very hard earned money and giving it to
                          people who have done *nothing* to earn it except
                          bitch and cry and whine how oppressed they are and
                          how I *owe* them something for some strange reason.
                          \_ I should have also asked for your definition
                             of a Libertarian
                             \_ I read their website.  I honestly don't recall
                                the details, just that I found a lot of it
                                unrealistic, extremist, and idealistic to the
                                point of fantasy.
        \_ Nobody really wants strict fiscal responsibility during a recession.
           but all of that hot air appeals to voters.
        \_ Tax cuts imply deficits
           \_ No.  In the long term tax cuts cause the economy to grow.  Taxes
              are funds stripped from the economy that are no longer able to
              produce or create real jobs or wealth.  It's a drag on the
              economy not a growth measure (raising taxes).
              \_ So taxes are kept in Fort Knox never to be spent? Go go
                 \_ Taxes don't grow an economy.  Well run businesses do.  The
                    government is a source of waste and corruption, not any
                    sort of productivity, innovation, or new invention.  The
                    only things the government has created in this century are
                    poverty through dependence, and weapons.
                    \_ Well, we are only two years into the century. I'm sure
                       we can go for something much more sinister by 2101. USA!
           \_ Given a budget surplus, would it be better to:
              1. Fix the roads, bridges, and other infrastructure
              2. Invest in education, from pre-school to universities
              3. Give 90% of it to the upper 0.2% of wealthy people
                \_ that is kind of weird.  most of the tax cut will
                   go to really old rich people who derive a significant
                   portion of their income from stock dividends.
                   I don't know ANYONE who gripes about the government
                   taxing their dividend income.  i would be more convinced
                   if the administration press machine would try to show
                   that lots of jobs are created by this elite class
                   of stock dividend collectors.... but they haven't at all.
                   maybe they're busy with iraq and are trusting the GOP
                   majority in all 3 branches of the government will
                   allow them to pass anything they want and dissenting
                   views are beneath their notice.  pretty depressing.
                   \_ Don't you know what dividends even are?  They are the
                      payback to the investors from the company turning a
                      profit.  Without those investors there wouldn't be enough
                      money to run the business and a *shitload* of people
                      would be jobless.  Possibly to the point of the economy
                      simply ceasing to function.  Hey I know, let's punish
                      everyone who creates jobs by investing in the economy.
                      This whole thread is fucking ridiculous and shows the
                   \_ There is an article in the WSJ that argues that
                      instead of cutting divident tax, they should
                      give tax rebates to companies that pay dividends.
                      This will solve the double taxation problem,
                      give more money to corporations to invest, and
                      help the huge number of middle-income people
                      who hold stocks in their 401Ks, IRAs, etc. (all
                      of which essentially still have to pay tax on
                      dividends), rather than to the rich old people.
                      The other thing I hate is the child-tax credit.
                      I don't mind sharing some burden with poorer
                      people who need help caring for their kids, but
                      why should rich people who breed like pigs take
                      my money just because they have lots of kids?
                      amazing and incredible ignorance and sheer blind
                      stupidity of many of you regarding how the world works.
                       \_ Don't you know what personal income is?  They are
                          the payback to people who work.  Without workers,
                          there wouldn't be any business, and no company
                          will survive.  Possibly to the point of the economy
                          ceasing to function.  Hey I know, let's punish
                          everyone who work at jobs and make the economy
                          turn.  Nobody is asking for the elimination of
                          dividends, just whether and how it should be taxed,
                          just like nobody is asking for the elimination
                          of personal income, just how it should be taxed.
                          \_ Oh yeah?  I think income tax is bullshit.  Want
                             to tax something?  Tax people on how much use they
                             get out of the infrastructure.  Road tolls, gas,
                             cigarette, utility and other usage taxes are just
                             fine.  A euroweenie style VAT is fine too.
                             \_ Sure, now that you have understood dividend
                                and personal income, we can proceed to talk
                                about dividend tax and income tax, and whether
                                they are needed.
                                \_ I already understood divs and PI.  I believe
                                   neither are needed and in fact are harmful.
                   \_ isn't it reasonable to say that no tax on dividends
                      encourages "buy-and-hold" behavior?
                        \_ ok that's reasonable.  why doesn't the admin.
                           say this?  all i read in the newspapers
                           is "giant tax cut on dividends.  suck it up
                           \_ GWB said that?  Cool!  What a stud!
                              \_ Clinton is a stud.  Bob Dole is a stud (even
                                 though he needs viagra).  GWB ain't no stud.
                   \_ There is an article in the WSJ that argues that instead
                      of cutting divident tax, they should give tax rebates to
                      companies that pay dividends.  This will solve the double
                      taxation problem, give more money to corporations to
                      invest, and help the huge number of middle-income people
                      who hold stocks in their 401Ks, IRAs, etc. (all of which
                      essentially still have to pay tax on dividends), rather
                      than to the rich old people.  The other thing I hate is
                      the child-tax credit.  I don't mind sharing some burden
                      with poorer people who need help caring for their kids,
                      but why should rich people who breed like pigs take my
                      money just because they have lots of kids?
                      \_ Why should *anyone* get money for having kids?
                         \_ That would be even better.  I can always
                            give money myself to my neighbour who
                            needs help.
                            \_ Maybe your neighbor should've used a condom.
                   \_ If the country is to cut taxes, it should first
                      cut income taxes, next capital gains, next
                      divident taxes, and only finally, inheritance
                      tax.  This is because we should award ability,
                      not rich people with no abilities.  If you
                      keep rewarding rich people with no abilities,
                      you will create classes in the society.
                      \_ Bush.
                         \_ some folks here are actually having a real
                            discussion.  take your crap to slashdot/kero5hin.
                      \_ What's wrong with classes?  Has there *ever* been a
                         society without classes?  Is it even possible?
                         \_ big middle class, class mobility.
                            \_ I believe this is the best that can be done,
                               but you've still got classes.
                      \_ Using your POV you should put inhereitance tax first.
                         \_ Why should there be one at all?  What gives the
                            government the right to interfere in a parent's
                            transfer of family properly to other family?  Why
                            are they taxing death?
                            \_ The same reason why we don't have succession
                               monarchy and aristocracy in this country.
                               "Damnit!  I earned this country fair and
                                square by leading the country to defeat
                                its enemies and ruling it well.  Why can't
                                I pass it to my son?!"
              \_ 4. Pay off the National Debt so we no longer have to pay
                    interest to our creditors.
                 \_ These creditors being exactly who?  Bond holders, also
                    known as the American public for the most part.  The debt
                    is the government reinvesting in the country.
                    \_ Yes, it's good to go into debt to buy a house, but
                       what is the right balance? do we need buy 2,3,4 houses
                       \_ Depends.  If you can afford to buy 50 houses, that's
                          a great long term investment in many locations in
                          this country.  I can't afford 50.  I can almost
                          afford 2 in the bay area.  I'd get a second and rent
                          it out if I thought I could swing it.
        \_ I'm not a conservative, but the usual items to blame are social
           services which are not part of the Constitution(tm). If you go
           full "states' right," feds should only provide for national defense,
           trade relations between states, and maintaining law as strictly
           described by the Bill of Rights (and maybe some of the amendments).
           All social services should be done by the states themselves or
           privately (church, foundations, etc.). The deficit is because
           federal social services exist.
           \_ You sure sound like a conservative.  It's ok to be a closet
              conservative as long as you keep making conservative arguments.
           \_ Even with all of these federal services, there was a surplus
              when G.W. took office.  It was clear the economy was going
              downhill, yet he gave that surplus away to the extremely
              wealthy and put us into deficit spending this country hasn't
              seen since Reagon was in charge.  At least Reagan had a
              real reason (a strong Soviet Union) to forget about long-term
              \_ Exactly what surplus did GWB give to the wealthy?  There has
                 been pretty much nothing returned to anyone yet at any level.
                 To say that there's been some big giveaway is either pure
                 ignorance or a flat out malicious lie.  Oh yeah, there was
                 that big huge gigantic $300 bucks which was enough to totally
                 crush the budget.  Whatever.
                 \_ Also, the tax relief check is the same amount for most
                    taxpayers having between low 5-figure and many-figure
                    income.  Hence, in terms of percentage of income, the
                    low-income taxpayers already benefited more than the
                    high-income taxpayers even though the tax rates for
                    low-income taxpayers were lower than those for high-income
                 \_ Dropping the top tax rate for the most wealthy.
                    \_ Child, it hasn't happened yet.  When you have clue, you
                       may return to the conversation.  Please stop drinking
                       your own poison.  No one has had their tax rate dropped.
                       I know because I'm paying that top rate and it hasn't
                       changed a bit.  I'll let you know when it has and it
                       won't be soon enough for me.
                       \_ Yes it has. You have been paying based on the (lower)
                          2002 tax rate all year, you just didn't notice it.
           \_ Do farm and business subsidies count as federal social services?
              \_ Not in the same sense, but to a degree, yes.  On the other
                 hand, there is an important need for the country to be able
                 to produce enough food and certain goods self sufficiently.
                 We definitely do not want to be dependent on some foreign
                 power for our food or other basic needs.  I consider some of
                 these subsidies to be necessary for the country's long term
                 safety, stability, and survival.  Others are pure pork and
                 should be completely ended.
                 \_ A bogus argument for subsidies. The US massively
                    overproduces "staple" farm goods, thus dropping prices,
                    and therefore subsidies. This argument assumes that
                    without subsidies there would be no farming. Wrong.
                    \_ So if there were no subsidies you think they'd just
                       grow less food and charge more and it would all be ok?
                       And who gets hurt the most by this?  The poor?  Yup.
                       I'm deeply conservative and I find this very *not* ok.
                       \_ The only reason the poor will get hurt is because
                          this distorted agricultural economy has been
                          around too long.  It is like people getting
                          addicted to drugs.   I say gradual reduction of
                          subsities.  Short-term pain, long-term gain.
                    \_ And the free-market will take care of this anyways.
                       No more republican subsidies! If anything, we need
                       to get more oil, a basic need, that's more
                       important to long-term national economic
                       health than cheese or eggs!
                       \_ Troll.  There are just as many democrat farm states
                          as republican.  That POS who switched over in the
                          Senate only did so because the dems promised him his
                          state would still get farm subsidies/pork and he'd
                          keep his position on a pork committee.  As far as oil
                          goes, we have plenty.  It's in Alaska.  It's off the
                          coast of California and Florida and probably other
                          places.  Drill for it.  It's there.
2003/1/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26976 Activity:nil
1/3     Conservative censorship in action
        Someone else can run this through the URL redirector.  Maybe if
        we all close our eyes the problem will go away.
        \_  ...so his claim is that this single-number economic indicator
           is *really* important for letting the average person judge the
           health of corporate America, huh?  How many people here have
           heard of this, or would trust it , vs. the number of people
           who have heard of and trust the figures from http://www.fuckedcompany.com
           If the US atorney general were to go after fuckedcompany for
           some reason, it would be censorship. there are plenty  of examples
           of the Bush adminsistration trying to restrict speach in the U.S.
           without making them up.
                        \_ For your future reference, "speech" is not spelled
                           "speach".  Thank you.
                           \_ my spelling isn't much worse than the
                              guys who wrote the constitution.
           \_ So the number of people who were laid off is unimportant? Then
              the corresponding number of how many jobs have been "created,"
              often a selling point in Presidental campaigns, is unimportant.
              How can you take into context one of these numbers without the
              other? It creates a statistic with a lack of context. The number
              has been used regularly by the media, economists, and people
              who make predictions on the national trends.
        \_ Ending a government program is censorship the same way
           smoking is free speech - i.e. it isn't.
        \_ I don't think this word censorship means what you think it means.
           And no, I've never heard of this until it was reported they were
           ending it.  It must be censorship that they didn't advertise the
           number more so more people would know about it so we could all tell
           how well the economy is doing instead of just looking at a
           newspaper.  Try harder, grasshopper.
           \_ Have you ever read a newspaper?  Where do you think they got
              all those "stories" about layoffs at all those companies?
        \_ It's not censorship.  It's called covering their asses.
           \_ That's not what CYA means.  It's definitely something but it
              sure isn't CYA.
2002/12/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/California] UID:26849 Activity:very high
12/18   I'm hurt.  A liberal (myself) criticizes Tom Daschle and gets removed.
        You people have no shame. --scotsman
        \_ Just like yermom
        \_ Daschle is a conservative lapdog.
           \_ ??? Joking, right?
        \_ What were you talking about? What did he do now? Please enlighten.
        \_ you get deleted because you're dull, and conservatives get killed
           because they're wrong.  i know, because i was the one who deleted
           you, and i often censor the conservatives.
           \_ conservatives are wrong?  Then why not let their posts stay and
              demonstrate their own wrongness?  Do you burn books, too?
              \_ The conservatives are backed by these huge capitalist
                 propaganda machines that drown out all efforts to
                 portray the TRUTH ACCCURATELY.  People are oppressed in
                 the Republican's fascist attempt to conquer Iraq, which
                 is just a veiled (thinly at that) attempt for the
                 multinational corporations to control the oil supply
                 in the Middle East.  This is the time for POSITIVE
                 DIRECT ACTION.
              \_ wouldn't you burn child pornography?
           \_ if you censor anyone ever, you're a fucking asshole, regardless
              of politics.  people like you make the world a worse place
              to live.  fuck you.
              \_ No, I mean I *don't* censor anyone.  I just "accidentally"
                 overwrite your changes because I don't use motdedit.  nudge
                 nudge wink wink.
                 \_ You're an idiot.
           \_ As I'm not a conservative, I'm not sure to what you are
              referring.  Daschle has no political instinct whatsoever,
              and the latest illustration (Lott's dillema and Daschle's
              reaction) is pulling this into tighter focus. --scotsman
              \_ Your party chose it's own leaders.  Don't like em?  Vote em
                 out.  I can't wait to see Lott take a huge fall and get the
                 hell out of party leadership or better yet my entire party.
                  \_ Yes Lott is a RINO who botched the Clinton impeachment
                     and the Jeffrey switch.  He has no political convictions.
                     He should step down as speaker.
                        \_ He should be replaced with a conservative.
                           Hopefully voters of Missisippi feel the same way.
                 \_ when are you going to vote lott out of office?  it's
                    your fucking party.
                    \_ Not being from his state nor having anyone from my party
                       in the senate from this state, I'm not in a position to
                       do as much about it as you are being a leftist in a
                       leftist state with your own leadership problems.  I'll
                       bet you voted for Clinton twice.
2002/12/16-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26823 Activity:insanely high
12/15   Gore: say what you will about him, at least he has made a smart
        decision this time.
        \_ Yeah, well, since he already won the election once, why should
           he have to do it again?
           \_#1: It is considered polite to append to the end of the motd.
             #2: Name one recount he won.
        \_ Yeah, he was pretty damn funny last night as Trent Lott.
           \_ Except he was just reading someone else's lines.
              \_ I heard that most actors and actresses read other ppl's
                 lines, too.
        \_ Yeah it'd look really stupid to go again and get crushed or worse
           not even get the nomination.  Then history would say it was just as
           well in 2000 and the country got what it wanted afterall.
        \_ Damn, I like hm too... better than Lieberman.  Last thing we want
           is a Jewish president... it will only make things worse in the
           middle east.
           \_ Only a Jewish president could go to Palestine.
           \_ Leiberman will never be president, the unwashed masses of this
              nation will elect a african american before they elect a jew.
           \_ Gore just lacks charisma. He doesn't have the right personality
              to win people over. Too bad issues like being "stiff" or not
              "looking" like a president are what most people seem to focus
              on above all else.
                \_ Leadership is all about personality and charisma, and yes,
                   to a degree, integrity.  He lacks on all of these.  And...
                   he lost the election.  Deal with it.  Majority doesn't
                                          \_ Oh, fuck you.
                   matter.  If it did, Bush would have campaigned in CA.
                \_ Execpt he loses on those too.  He's a inveterate liar
                   and too much of Clinton made its way into his character.
                   He's a big governement socialist, definitely a 'winner'
                   He's a big government socialist, definitely a 'winner'
                   on the issues eh?
                   \_ how does the "clinton == big government" myth live on?
                   \_ the fact that you said the words "big government" in
                      a discussion discredits anything you have to say.
                      nevermind the misspelling.
                        \_ Nothing meaningful to say so you talk out of
                           your ass.  The size of the federal government
                           is primarily the result of socialist / democrat
                           policies the past 90 years.  All of your liberal
                           heroes are statists.
                           \_ Which president grew the overall size of
                              government most out of all of them in the
                              last 40 years? Reagan! Who shrank it the
                              most? Clinton. The real statists are all
                                \_ Except Reagan submitted a balanced
                                   budget every year.  Guess who controlled
                                   Congress.  Reagan made a bargain - tax
                                   cuts and defense increases for democrat
                                   deficits.  We are still enjoying the
                                   dividends.  Clinton shrank the government?
                                   Now you are making things up? Democrats have
                                   controlled Congress for virtually the
                                   entire century.
                                   Guess who enacted SS? Who started the
                                   War on Poverty and allowed SS into general
                                   expenditures? Who then levied taxes on SS?
                                   You're full of shit or ignoring the facts.
                                   \_ Now you are just making things up. Who
                                      controlled congress in 1984? Now look up
                                      up the number of federal government
                                      employees at the start of Clinton's term
                                      and the at the end. Tell me what the
                                      difference is. Now tell me what the
                                      difference will be after 2 years of
                                      Republican controlled government. I
                                      am eagerly awaiting your reply.
                                   \_ Ok so they downsized the military by
                                      several hundred thousand and rehired
                                      hundred thousand more federal employees.
                                      I guess in your world this is 'shrinking'
                                      government.  So you, despite the claim
                                      of every Democrat  on the face of
                                      the earth, that libs are for smaller govt?
                                      Gore / Clinton in favor of nationalize/
                                      socialized medical service and youre
                                      telling me this equals smaller govt?
                                      You're a fucking joke.
                                      \_ No, I think both "sides" are in favor
                                         of larger governments. The Dems want
                                         more handouts and the Repubs want more
                                         cops. I think they both suck.
                                         PS Reducing the size of the military
                                         counts as "reducing government" to
                                         any sane person. Also, look at your
                                         own Cato institute graphs, they show
                                         a (slight) decrease in federal
                                         expenditures as a percentage of GDP
                                         over the 8 years Clinton was in office.
                                         There are a lot of bad things that
                                         you can lay on Clinton's door, but
                                         increasing the size of the government is
                                         not one of them.
                                         \_ Contract with America.
2002/12/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26707 Activity:nil
12/3    Fucking CNN.  Can't even get a simple quote right on the same page.
        Check out the quote under the picture and then find the same quote
        in the text 4 lines from the bottom.  For those who care, this is
        just a thing from Clinton talking about the Dem's strengths and
        weaknesses in the last election.  The article is completely not
        interesting.  Don't these CNN people proofread anything?
2002/12/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26679 Activity:insanely high
        \_ Nice troll, but I'm going to a blank URL on the basis of that
           tagline.  Tell us where it goes if you want us to read it.
           \_ it's william buckley making fun of al gore in an op ed piece.
              i call myself a leftist, but think he's basically right.
              al gore and the rest of the democratic "leadership" is
              completely full of shit and without any vision or ideas other
              \- does anyone else think ALGOR may have suffered some
                 psychological damage after the 2000 election? --psb
                 \_ Its the eight years of living in the shadow of
                    "Big" Bill thats gone and driven him bonkers. - Bill C.
                          \- well that's true ... i think he deeply resently
                             bill's johnson keeping him from his destiny ...
                             although i am kind of curious if he is bright
                 \_ Back.  Did your article end with "They preferred it the way
                    it used to be,"?  I think there's something missing.
                             enough to realize clinton is a lot smarter than
                             he is. i dont mean smarter in a slick willie
                             reptilian sense ... i mean in a "my brain is
                             larger" sense, --psb
                             \_ let's face facts, al gore just isn't a smart
                                man.  he's an average man who works really
                                hard.  bill clinton is brilliant but had other
                                psychological issues which is why he took
                                enormous risks just to cigar interns and cum
                                on their dresses.  bc >> ag
              than that someone is out to get them.  they're right to be
              paranoid. without any integrity, any charisma, or the
              willingness to stand for any issues whatsovever, there's
              a reason everyone hates democrats.
              \_ Thank you for the explanation.  Now I'll go read the article.
                 \_ Back.  Did your article end with "They preferred it the
                    way it used to be,"?  I think there's something missing.
              \_ Hey!  Stop insulting my hero Bill Clinton and his bb
        \_ Crap.  I was going to post the Buckley piece with a better tagline.
           Anyway, I just feel bad for Gore.  Zeitgeist, indeed.  The man is
           a psycho.  Please, please, please run this psycho in '04.
2002/11/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:26671 Activity:insanely high
11/29   Yup it's those darn terrorists...  (not those tax cuts at all...)
        \_ At least the president was able to find money for his own $200k
           pay raise, and $60k/year increase for each conressman, even if the
           $186/year for the average worker was out of reach.  Funny, the
           total cost of the two packages is on the same order of magnitude.
           Congress and the White House could have saved half the pay raise
           of the average worker by forgoing lining their own pockets...
           \_ Sorry.  The across the board pay raise would cost $11 billion
              using the 1990 plan outline, and $13 billion using the 1997
              additions Clinton was able to afford.  The total salary of
              the congress doesn't measure up even close to that.  That
              said, blaming this on terrorist rather than the failed
              economic policies and general economic depression is a
              blantly self-serving deception. -mel
        \_ idiot.  the tax cuts have nothing to do with it.  they're so tiny
           compared to the size of the federal budget.  get a clue before
           mouthing off stupidly.  better to keep one's stupidity to one's self
           than open one's stupid ignorant mouth and demonstrate one's idiocy.
        \_ *sniff* *sniff* Poor overpaid, lazy goverment workers. Never
           do get a fair break.
           \_ overpaid?  where?  have you compared civil servant salaries
              to the private sector counterparts?  Or are you talking straight
              from your ass again?
              \_ no bonus, no raises, 60k/year pretax for 8 years experience
                 doing systems development work.  name the employer.
                 answer posted on monday.
              \_ they get paid for what they do.  people in the private sector
                 have to actually work sometimes to earn their money.  this is
                 something a government worker bee slacker troll like you can't
                 understand.  work isn't something you'd know how to do.  the
                 people in private sector are lucky to have jobs right now.
                 no one is bitching about not getting a bonus for god's sake.
                 you're so selfish and ignorant and greedy it makes me sick.
                 go back to surfing and stop insulting people who actually do
                 work for a living.  when the federal government slackers are
                 at risk for random layoffs, no raises, no pensions, no bonuses
                 and have to actually put in an hour's worth of work a month to
                 suck money from my pocket then they'll have something to whine
                 about.  they get low pay because they don't fucking work.
                 \_ I've typically gotten excellent service when dealing with
                    federal employees.
                 \_ Hate to tell you this, but federal 'slackers' *are* subject
                    to layoffs.  They call them Reduction In Force.  Of course,
                    they make an effort to find you a job somewhere else, like
                    maybe, Alaska, if you're willing to move.  Furthermore,
                    I'd bet that gov't workers have about the same ratio of
                    people who work hard to slackers.  It seems to me like a
                    6 to 1 ratio of people who work to people who are worthless.
                    If the govt workers don't work efficiently enough for you
                    it's probably because they're hobbled by extreme red tape.
                    Also, fed workers don't get pensions anymore, they get
                    social security, like everyone else, no sweet
                    retirement pensions, and they'll match your contribution
                    to your retirement savings account up to 4.5% of your

        \_ Except this is exactly what Presidents / Congress have done
           since 1990.  Exactly how does one 'slash a pay raise'?
           AP is full of stupid liberals.  Of course this won't change
           much, Bush is more pro-big government than Clinton.
           \_ Not true.  This is the first time in history that the
              'serious economic conditions' rule was ever invoked.  Note
              The it completely eliminates cost of living adjustments in
              New York, San Francisco, and Boston.  Sounds like a punishment
              for voting against him.
2002/11/27 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26649 Activity:very high
11/26   In 2000 I thought he was a 4 faced lying sack of ego maniacal shit.
        Now I just feel sorry for him.  I think he's lost it.
        \_ If I were Mike Judge, i'd have my lawyers send that guy a letter.
           His scketch of Gore looks *exactly* like Butthead.
        \_ Well he's a bit misguided;  he sees some sort of far-reaching
           plot in the media when, with very very few precious exceptions,
           it's all just shit geared towards idiots.  Never ascribe to
           malice or stupidity what can be explained by raw sewage.  -John
           \_ yeah, it's pretty funny how the right thinks the media are
              part of a giant leftist conspiracy and the left think it's
              a giant right-wing conspircacy...while the executives
              who control the media know it's just a conspiracy to make them
              lots of money.
              \_ No one with a grain of sense believes in the "liberal media"
                 myth.  He's very right about the machine of foxnews.  It
                 amazes me that anybody actually watches it.  --scotsman
                 \_ Oh, so the surveys that show that 90% of journalists vote
                    Democrat are a myth, eh?
                 \_ If you watch ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN and it doesn't offend you and
                    you're voting left then maybe it doesn't offend you because
                    they have the same politics you do?  I vote right and find
                    all of them sickening.  I understand that when I listen to
                    Rush he has an agenda.  He makes it clear he's biased and
                    doesn't claim to be unbiased.  When I used to watch the
                    3-letters news it was clear they had a bias but were
                    unwilling or unable to cop to it possibly because they
                    really honestly think they're fair and even handed even
                    though they're clearly not.
                    \_ Actually, what upsets me is that in the attempt to be
                       unbiased, the quite probably liberal-minded reporters
                       leave stuff out that should be said (albeit in an
                       editorial rather than a report, but when was the last
                       time you saw editorial or simply an attempt at historical
                       context on any newscast). --scotsman
                       \_ I don't trust the newsmedia to provide a historic
                          context to anything.  They're not historians.  They
                          are commercial providers of current information and
                          nothing more.
                    \_ maybe they are being fair, and the right-wingers just
                       have agendas that sound ridiculous when they're
                       reported fairly.  -tom
                       \_ maybe, or maybe you've been drinking your own
                          lemonade for too long.
        \_ The RNC has been crying "left-wing media bias" for 20 years.
           Turnabout is fair play.
           \_ It's not turnabout.  The media has been left wing for far more
              than 20 years.  Just what the world didn't need is hiding behind
              more false moral equivalency.
              \_ And from my perspective, the media has been pro-business
                 and corporate run and controlled for much longer than that.
                 So it really matters where you are looking at it from.
        \_ Scaife and others have spent hundreds of millions smearing him
           and Clinton. He is telling the truth:
           \_ Scaife hasn't spent hundreds of anything.  And even if he and
              mysterious 'others' did, that's still nothing next to the 24x7
              value provided by the 3letter networks for decades without any
              counterpoint until now.  Gore is just upset the Right can
              finally get their message out.  He think it's unfair.  Boo hoo.
              I had to stop reading your link after laughing my ass off in the
              summary paragraph: "One of the machine's most important leaders
              is Richard Mellon Scaife, the billionaire who is financing
              nearly all the scandals that engulf President Clinton."  Did
              Scaife buy the Blue Dress(tm) or The Cigar(c)?  *laugh*
              \_ Scaife has contributed millions. Your denying it does
                 not strengthen your case.
2002/11/25 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26626 Activity:high
11/25   Clinton: the daily cal editor's nipples
        are showing:
        \_ Uhm, whatever.  You can see more nipple on *much* better looking
           chicks by simply walking down any street in an American city for 5
           minutes at noon.  I'm not sure why you'd care or want to test this
           but whatever, there it is.  And I'm not seeing what this has to do
           with Clinton.
           \_ Yeah. Kids these days ..
        \_ You're a virgin, yes?
        \_ I see the nipples. I don't see the connection
           to clinton.
           \_ Maybe she was an intern...
        \_ I don't even see the nipples.  Maybe I need a bigger monitor.
           \_ Obviously you are a left-wing Clinton apologist.
        \_ Does that mean she's not wearing a bra?
           \_ 1) probably
              2) there are bras through which one can see nipples.
              3) there are bras that have fake nipples attatched
                 to them.
                 \_ yes, but are the fake nipples inflatable and
                    deflatable? (yes, i know the reference.)
                    \_ I don't know the reference you're refering to.
                       I just know that this is a patented invention
                       i've seen in the patent database at uspto.gov.
                       the versions of the patent i read did not
                       have inflatable nipples.
              4) nipples may be added with photoshop very easily.
              5) you're an idiot.
2002/11/25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26624 Activity:high
11/25   Clinton: I Threatened to Attack North Korea
2002/11/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26523 Activity:nil
11/11   Anyone not had sex this millennium?
                                \_ corrected -motd spelling nazi
        yes: .
        only clinton style:
        \_ You meant Bill CliTton?
           \_i dont get it
              \_ don't worry, it wasn't funny anyway.
           \_ I mean my One True President, William Jefferson Clinton,
              Commander in Chief, Leader of the Free World, Friend of the
              Poor, Champion of Women, and the First Black President!
2002/11/9 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26490 Activity:nil 55%like:26476
11/8    http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110002593
        Good advice the democrats will ignore.
        [restored... as if the wsj was lower quality than the other crap
         that gets quoted here]
2002/11/8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:26476 Activity:nil 55%like:26490
11/8    http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110002593
        Good advice the democrats will ignore.
2002/11/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26432 Activity:very high
11/5    Here's a first: a NYT opinion page that gets it right:
        \_ What, we can't go after Bush the way the Right went after
           Clinton? What's the fun in that?
                \_ You need to re-read the article.  That's not at all what
                   the take-away was.
                \_ Except Clinton was the most venal, corrupt, unethical
                   President since FDR.  Don't worry, I was fooled too.
                   The problem is everything said about Clinton was true,
                   but for some reason people were oblivious.  It's safe
                   to say Clinton was a traitor.
                   \_ Uh, Nixon?  Dumbass.  It's not even close.
                   \_ I think you have rabies.
                      \_ No cookie.
                   \_ See what I mean? Why can't we be like that?
                      How come the conservatives get to have all the fun???
                      \_ As stupidity increases, so does the amount of fun
                         you experience. I don't think being a non-sensical
                         idiot is anything to be proud of.
                     \_ Why can't you?  You already are and much worse.
                        \_ You mean I am venal, corrupt, unethical and
                           traitorous (and much worse, even)? Cool.
                           Where do I sign up to learn to debate like that?
                           \_ Do they still teach Subject A?  Or is it all
                              e190 now?
                              \_ Oh, is that where you learned. I see now.
2002/10/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26289 Activity:very high
10/22   What's your big beef against Clinton anyway, freepers?
        I mean honestly. Bush is so totally unrepresentative of most
        Americans it's not even funny. Not only is he a WASP, he's a
        big-business WASP. He's a political cartoon cliche.
        \_ What's wrong with WASPs you racist fuck?
           \_ Just that every president is one.
        \_ You criticized Bush. Therefore, you must be un-American.
        \_ Hating Clinton is tangential to how one feels about Bush.
           \_ Yeah. I tried deleting my mini-Bush rant but someone
              replied to it without using me. I could write an essay
              about him, just ignore those 3 lines and start ragging
              on Clinton. And not about so-called sex scandals.
        \_ Because, upon investigation, it becomes clear
           that Clinton was the worst, most corrupt and venal post WWII
           president.  The damage he did to this country and its
           institutions may be irreparable.  And yet he is still revered by
           many as the Messiah. But what do you expect
           from the quintessential Baby Boomer. Oh, but the economy was good.
           And you think Clinton / Gore is somehow more representative of
           'most Americans' - are we playing the victim / race card?
           Thank God a large part of America is completely antithetical to
           the California of today.  Democrats have run the Federal government
           for 40+ years - are you pleased with the current state of
           domestic affairs?
           \_ You haven't said anything specific, only that he's "worst".
              Try harder and explain how he was more corrupt or worse
              than other presidents. The Democrats running gov't is a lie
              also. Eisenhower '52, Nixon '72, Reagan '80, Bush '88.
              The country was doing pretty well until the 70's and 80's I
              might add. Bush is more corrupt than Clinton, and Reagan +
              Bushes have fucked the nat'l debt like no other. Fuck them.
           \_ oh is that so? so what did he do that so irreparable?
2002/10/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26287 Activity:nil
10/22   Clinton Korea policy has left us a more dangerous world
        with a nice photo of Roger Clinton in North Korea
        \_ Jesus Christ you Freepers sure have an unhealthy obsession
           with Bill Clinton. Did you know he is not the president
                \_ Really?  Clinton and the Dems are one and the same.
                   \_ a democrat is president?  STOP THE PRESSES!!!
                \_ Clinton fucked this country time and time again, and
                   we will continue to pay for it.  And yet
                   in your eyes hes a saint.
                   \_ Bush turned this country into a totalitarian
                      society that would make communist USSR look like
                      a thriving democracy. The Clinton years were
                      some of the best years of my life in this country
                      until someone messed it up.
        \_ Stop being naive. Nuclear technology is going to spread no
           matter what.  We just have to deal with this fact (along with
           the fact that we have unleashed nuclear weapon on defendless
           civilian in the past, which justifies others to do the same).
           Clinton tried to make friend with them, it is probably the
           best defense policy one can make.   And... remember, United
           States CREATED North Korea if you actually try to remember
           things we have done which we are not proud of.
                \_ 'Unleashed nuclear weapons on defendless civilian'
                    ummm, yeah - this is what you are taught at Berkeley?
                    Nice historical revisionism - youre either very young
                    and naive or completely ignorant.
                    Yours is the Carter doctrine right?  Make
                    friends and everyone plays nice - history clearly
                    vindicates your position.
2002/10/19-20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:26260 Activity:low
10/18   Congressman Cussin' Mad Over Clinton-Korea Charges
        \_ Ah, newsmax.
2002/9/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:26037 Activity:nil
9/28    I don't normally read the national review but this is food for thought
        if you ignore the obvious Clinton baiting aspect.  The underlying
        premise is a real possibility for the future.
2002/9/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:25969 Activity:insanely high
9/20    More Vast-Right Wing Conspiracy - but I thought it was all
        about a blow job.
        'Democrats Are Fined $243,000 for Fund-Raising Violations
        (People's Republic of China)'
        \_ If you pack the FEC, you can get away with anything you want.
           Bush violated the Fund-Raising laws by the tune of $2M but
           got away with it on a 3-3 vote of the FEC:
           Not to say that what Gore did was right, but both sides do
           this kind of stuff all the time.
                \_ I'm sorry, your analogy is 100% wrong.  Clinton sold
                   out national security to COMMUNIST China for personal
                   gain.  Bother to follow the Loral Space investigation,
                   I thought not.
                   The case you mention, unfortunately, describes
                   the state of election financing in this country, and
                   is peanuts compared the 1996 scandal.
                   the Ron Brown saga? I thought not.
                   for a campaign add - ubiquitous is elections.  It was
                   The case you mention is about someone using soft-money
                   1996 scandal.
                   for a campaign add - ubiquitous in elections.  It was
                   political ploy by McCain, peanuts compared to the
                   1996 scandal.  You are being intellectual dishonest
                   to compare the two.
                   And FWIW, there were Republicans involved in the
                   1996 election scandals, the lewinsky affair was a
                   cover for them all.
2002/9/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:25891 Activity:high
9/14    Blinded VIGILANCE
        Unfortunately Reagan's politicization of the CIA is omitted,
        but useful information nonetheless.  Read about diversity
        quilts and 'moral' espionage at our intelligence agencies.
        When a civil aircraft crashed into the White House in
        Clinton's first term, the running joke in Washington
        was that it was James Woolsey trying to get a meeting
        with the President.
        \_ It all went downhill bigtime when that idiot Carter said our agents
           could no longer associate with known criminals and other unsavory
           types.  As if the local girl scouts would know anything.
           \_ But this is par for the course for the modern liberal (as opposed
              to the classical liberal who believed in something).  It's more
              important to feel good and look good than to be right or efficient
              or successful.
2002/9/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:25833 Activity:nil
9/10    Bush really more liberal than Clinton:
2002/8/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:25723 Activity:high
8/28    Why must we fight the Iraqi's head on? Why can't we use other means
        like assassination?
        \_ I've always wondered if the gwbush administration has
           a bunch of crack smoking linguists on their staff, what the heck
           is a regime change?  has their ever been a "regime change"
           in history before?  are they still saying "homicide bombers"? - danh
           \_ That's 'cunning linguists' to you, bud.  -John
        \_ Cause we are not very good at assassination, but we are really
           good at bombing the shit out of bad mamas.
           \_ And we're bad at combining the two. Reagan and Libya (Khadafi),
              GB1 and Iraq (Hussain), and Clinton and Afghanistan (Bin Laden).
              The problem is lack of decent ground-based intelligence. Can't
              hit them if you can't find them.
                \_ Libya was fine.  They were pretty much in their place after
                   that.  We never intended to kill Momar, just scare the shit
                   out of him which I think the bomb in his backyard tennis
                   court accomplished that just fine.  GB1 fucked up by not
                   finishing the job the first time but that's not at all the
                   same as pulling a Castro a la Kennedy.  Both Clinton and
                   GB2 screwed up the Bin Laden/Afghanistan thing, true, but
                   both were afraid of the anti-war body-bag counting left in
                   the media who love to see dead American soldiers on film.
                   \_ Wrong. Reagan aimed for the palace and Khadafi wasn't
                      in it at the time. Killing wives and kids doesn't count.
                      \_ Ah, but you'd lose huge amounts of pork for the
                         defense contractors who've been hit hard by the end of
                         the cold war.
                      Libya funded activities after that (see Lockerbie
                      bombing) Hussain was a "high-level target of opportunity"
                      during the Gulf War. They could never track him down.
                      \_ Nonsense.  Find any semi-respectable reference that
                         says my buddy Momar was a direct target.  They knew
                         where Saddam was because Wolf Blitzer was reporting
                         his movements from his hotel room.  GW1 had
                         specifically stated we are not targetting him
                         personally.  Thanks.
                \_ are you implying that the multi-million pound allocation
                   to the British intel is better than the multi-billion
                   dollar allocation to the CIA?
                   \_ Hell yeah.  They have James Bond!
                   \_ Yep. The USA relies too much on technology and
                      bureaucracy, not enough on human intel. August's
                      wargames proved that an unsophisticated approach to
                      communication and basic slight of hand can devastate
                      the tech-laden, middle-management bloated American
                      military machine. The whole missle shield crap? Spend
                      a couple of billion bribing the tech folks on the other
                      side to sabotage their country's efforts or buying all
                      of the "loose" nuclear material. Cheaper and easier.
                      \_ Ah, but you'd lose huge amounts of pork for
                         defense contractors who've been hit hard by the end
                         the cold war. All those Sun buildings on the bayshore
                         frontage road in Palo Alto near Charleston used to be
                         Lockheed and Loral.
                      \_ You make it sound so simple.  Just bribe everyone on
                         the other side.  My God!  Why didn't anyone else ever
                         think of that?  Oh wait, they did.  Those people are
                         all dead or in Siberia now and hey guess what?  Not
                         everyone is bribable.  Glad you're here to generate
                         these great national security plans.  Why are you
                         being wasted here on the motd when you could be in
                         some bunker on the east coast coming up with this
                         great stuff?
                         \_ Everyone is bribable. It's just a matter of what
                            you bribe them with. It's the CIA, NSA, and the
                            folks in charge who don't trust bribery. And you
                            don't bribe everyone, you bribe the right people.
2002/7/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:25276 Activity:very high
7/3     Jail Martha!  http://tshirts.pettyvices.com
        \_ I'd like to do her.
                \_ WTF? Soda has some wierd people.
                   \_ Martha Maven? I'd do her too. She's SEXY
                      \_ they always said that bill clinton took his
                         vacations in martha's vineyard.  now i think
                         i know what that means.
                         \_ heh heh... I like this joke.
2002/7/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:25269 Activity:nil
7/2     Court-martialed for refusing to wear UN uniform... (old story)
2002/5/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:24776 Activity:nil
5/9     http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/05/09/quayle.cnna/index.html
        must be a slow news day.
2002/4/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:24345 Activity:very high
4/5     Clinton's legacy, since few in the media seem to care.
        \_ last time I checked he isn't president anymore.  get over it.
                \_ Sort of like telling a woman that's been raped and beaten
                   and is now bleeding on the floor that she's no longer being
                   raped and beaten so she should "put some ice on that lip"
                   and get over it.
                   \_ seriously, if you live in the area, I know this
                      pretty hot girl that holds your exact same views,
                      maybe you should get together with her, email
                      me and i'll hook you both up. - danh
                      \_ e190.  Read again.
                \_ and yet he's wildly more popular than any recent president,
                   including bush jr.
                   \_ This is simply factually incorrect.  Sorry.  Try again.
                \_ Did you even bother to read the site? It's not a
                   high school popularity contest. Here's a
                   little bit for ya:
                   "Johnny Chung told Justice Dept. investigators that
                   the chief of Chinese military intelligence gave
                   him $300,000 to donate to the Clinton campaign."
                   Unfortunately both parties had their hands open.
                   \_ unfortunately?  how 'bout "unsurprisingly"?
2002/3/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:24264 Activity:high
3/27    man, gotta hate that liberal media
        \_ Why do you quote defenses of Bill Clinton by those who
           proverbially suck his dick.  Do just 30 minutes of
           INDEPENDENT research into the crimes for which he was accussed,
           just one of which he happened to be convicted by the House of
           Representatives.  Are you that morally and ethically depraved
           that you defend the vulgar narcisistic slime that is Bill
        \_ Great first line.  I wonder if Joe Consason wrote that line himself
           or it was Salon adding their two cents.  Anyway, whatever the
           source they obviously didn't read the same final white water report
           the rest of the world read.  I wonder where they get the special
           edition from?  Also, I still can't figure out how Hillary 'lost'
           those billing records for years only to magically find them on her
           desk a week after the statute of limitations expired.  What an
           ironic and oddly fun world we live in!  I think "Socks ate my
           records!" would've gone over better but I'm not a lawyer.
2002/3/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:24258 Activity:nil
3/27    Dan "Godfather" Quayle wanted NW MP Killed:
        \_ Bullshit.  You know he's lying because Dan can't use words that big.
        \_ "...... and I certainly wouldn't be at risk from a chap who
           couldn't spell tomato," he added."  Well, he certainly wouldn't be
           at risk if he can't even tell tomato from potato.
        \_ You mean NZ PM?
2002/3/27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:24243 Activity:nil
3/27    1984 and the war on terror:
        \_ So where were you when the Fed under X42:
                - immolated women and children in Waco.
                - shot Wandy Weaver's wife while she was holding their infant.
                - equipped the EPA, IRS, Forest Service, etc. with SWAT teams
                - completely demoralized the military and intelligence
                  agencies with PC garbage.
                - one could go on and on
           We are attacked for the fourth time by the same terrorists that
           Clinton, who was too busy jerking off in the Oval Office sink,
           ignored.  Now, when Bush, who is about as conservative as Clinton
           was (but without the slime), acts in the interests national
           defense, all these liberal peacenic who hate the military start
           to piss in their pants.  You want to talk 1984, how about being
           thrown in jail for calling someone who accosted your wife a
           nigger, here is your PC legacy:
2002/3/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:24027 Activity:very high
3/5     I miss Berkeley and the whole "free speech is only for people who
        think like us" mentality.  Especially when it's a bunch of racist
        thugs screaming it the loudest.
        \_ i can never remember if the post or times is the Moonie
           mouthpiece, it all looks the same in lynx, anyway
           \_ The Washington Times is a front for the Moonies. Their first
              editor quit in a public press conference saying such.
              \_ Uhm, where is there anything moony related in this article?
                 Did you even read it or is this the standard motd knee-jerk
                 anti-WT noise spewing forth again?
                 \_ I am responding to his question which one is Moony crony
                    \_ Which still has nothing to do with the article.
                       \_ I can read that dipshit, I'm answering the other ?
               \_ It has to do with the credibility of the source.
           \_ The WT is definitely the Fox News of newspapers.  However,
              Berkeley's reaction to that militant Israeli and the city
              council's reaction to Dean putting remarks on her web page
              regarding the antiwar resolution support the claim.  Free
              speech is reserved for the liberals, in the minds of some
              in this city.
                \_ NY Times good. Washington Post good.
                   NY Post a joke. Washington Times a joke.
              \_ What's wrong with Fox News?  Fox >> CNN >> M$NBC for decent
                 reporting.  CNN has reporters all over the planet so they
                 get stories out first but otherwise they're crap.
           at the end of this article:
            Last spring, conservative writer David Horowitz's speech
            about reparations ended abruptly when a member of the audience
            yelled at Mr. Horowitz for placing an ad in the campus
            newspaper critical of the idea of black reparations.
           Which is incredibly misleading.  The whole point of
           horowitz being on campus was to talk about his ad,
           and I think he fled abruptly just so that he could claim
           later that evil berkeley liberals forced him out of
           Berkeley (which he did). - danh
                \_ Were you there?  There was a problem with his ad?
                   I'll give you an example - have you compared the
                   amount of time threads from liberal sites stay
                   up on the MOTD vs conservative.  I have
                   deliberately posted both to see.
             \_ yes I was there.  horowitz's ad campaign was a giant
                scam, reperations for slavery isn't that hot of an issue,
                but college newspapers all over the country were
                suckered in by it, the most visible case was the daily cal.
                i get the feeling that the major newspapers are getting
                all of their info about the mecha vs cal patriot
                fight from a really biased reporter inside of the daily
                cal and they're not going around checking with any
                sources, but i can't prove it.  whichever daily cal
                reporter who keeps mentioning the cal patriot and
                the horowitz talk in the same articles obviously
                wasn't actually there and is asking only the cal patriot
                about what happened at it. - danh
                \_ I hate the Daily CAL!!!! total POS           - rory
                   \_ what a shock--URL's intended to piss off intelligent
                      people get deleted!
                      \_ Leftist URLs dont piss off intelligent people.  They
                         appeal to us for their humor value.  --conservative
                         \_ freerepublic URL's appeal only to morons--it
                            has nothing to do with their politics.
                                \_ Ask yourself why the military is
                                   overwhelmingly conservative.
                                   \_ Nice argument.  Conservatism is good
                                      because people in the military are
                                        \_ I was once a empathic liberal.
                                           Eventually, you realize that
                                           culture not predicated on
                                           responsibility and self-reliance
                                           is doomed to destroy itself.
                                           You wake
                                           up and realize how screwed up
                                           most of our institutions have
                                           become.  Life really is black
                                           and white.
                                           \_ Bill Clinton - self-reliant,
                                              self-made man.  George Bush -
                                              daddy's boy.
           \_ It's not about an idiot like Horowitz.
                \_ why am i the only person who ever signs their name around
                   here?  damn.  -danh
                   \_ Because you are the only person in this debate
                      saying anything worth putting one's name behind.
                      (yes, i know it was a rhetorical question)
                   \_ Because it's the motd and it doesn't matter *who* is
                      saying a thing, it matters *what*.  The issue of *who*
                      only clouds the topic with personal attacks (as always).
                      Knowing who posted something doesn't make their point any
                      stronger or weaker.  Posting one's name is merely an
                      option most choose not to take.
                        \_ ok that's a valid point.  i just think it's funny
                           every other post is unsigned! - danh
2002/2/28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23998 Activity:nil
2/28    In case there was any doubt what he was all about
        "Clinton to dedicate life to redistributing world's wealth"
        \_ That's a headline, not a quote.  The man is scum and I'm sure he'd
           be thrilled to redistribute everyone's wealth (but his own) if it
           got him a blue ribbon or a medal from some UN committee but don't
           troll around here with pseudo quotes.  There's enough real spew
           coming from the man's mouth that you don't need to make it up.
           \_ I always find you conservative little monkeys so entertaining.
                go burn a cross or something.
                \_ Yawn.  Personal attack smearing an entire segment of the
                   population.  Go away lefty troll.
        \_ context is misleading, it's about removing AIDS from the world
2002/2/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Reference/Religion] UID:23944 Activity:high
2/21    Daniel Pearl killed.
        \_ this kind of shit happens every day.  since he is american
           and pakistan is a musilim nation it's news because that helps
           feed anti-muslim sentiment in the u.s.
                \_ that's kinda cruel to say. either way it *was* someone
                   who was unfairly killed. that's all...
                \_ innocent people's heads being cut off with a knife and
                   videotaped. Yes, right. That's very common, in Chechnya
                        \_ hehe, or thailand
           \_ actually, i'm surprised it didn't get more coverage. most
              nights the local news hardly mentioned it, and when they did,
              it was, "Oh, and by the way, we're still not sure if
              the reporter's dead or not.  Now onto sports!"
           \_ I guess that's why US sent troops to Bosnia to help
              the muslims there?
              \_ after waiting for how long?? check your facts jack, wasn't
                 until other UN troops were held hostage did the U.S. care.
                 \_ Doesn't matter.  Clinton did the right thing in the
                    end, inspite of Republican opposition.  He is my
              \_ And thats why CLintoon bombed Christian Serbia to help
                 the Muslim KLA, the same muslims we fought in Afghanistan
                 and are now chasing around the world.
                 \_ The muslim world didn't seem to appreciate this, I think.
                    \_ The Bosnian muslims apprecated this, and that's
                       good enough.
                 \_ The Serbian yahoos ain't no Christians.  They are
                    bullies, and it's good that we bombed their arse.
                    Now the Balkans are all peaceful, and participating
                    in the Olympics too.  Clinton is my hero!
        \_ Gotta love the PC Jews at the NYT omitting very important details
           about the situation, just like the major networks wouldn't show
           dozens of people jumping from the WTC.  Pearl was not just murdered,
           he was beheaded.
2002/2/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23775 Activity:nil
2/4     The largest fiber optic network in the world is about to be
        'bought' by the Chicoms, and where is the media?
        A national disgrace.
2002/2/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Science/Space] UID:23765 Activity:nil
2/3     NASA extinguishes global-warming fire
2002/2/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23756 Activity:nil
2/1     Demron?
2002/2/2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23755 Activity:high
2/1     Justice orders White House to preserve all Enron documents.  And here I
        thought it was the job of the Justice Department to stall, delay, and
        protect criminal activity in the Executive branch....  Speaking of
        which, Janet Reno is still going to run for Florida Governor even after
        her little episode on stage.
        \_ This is the COMPUTER Science Undergraduate Organization, not the
           Political Science Undergrad Association.
           \_ The "sue uh"?
        \_ Take your boring politics elsewhere.
           \_ "dude!  a new linux kernel is out!  quick!  post it to the motd!
              first!! first!!"  Get over it.  You can't hide in a machine room
              or computer lab your entire life.  Join the human race.  BTW, why
              aren't you bitching about all the other things on the motd that
              aren't specifically nerd oriented?
              \_ You should've got a Dell, dude!
        \_ Don't forget the head of the GAO is a former board member
           of Arthur Andersen, appointed in 1998 by who else?
        \_ Don't forget the head of the GAO, Walker, is a former board member
           of Arthur Andersen, appointed in 1998 by who else?  And don't
           forget it was the same GAO who did not sue Gore over
           his Buddhist temple and other 1996 campaign finance
           violations (read taking money from the PLA).
2002/1/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23713 Activity:high
1/29    How was clinton's talk?
        \_ Who is clinton?
        \_ it was cool, he jumped up and down alot and then the MOthership
           came down and the members of parliament came out and did
           "We got the Funk"
2002/1/18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23596 Activity:high
1/18    See "Black Hawk Down" you liberal, conscience objectors.
        \_ Does it show how a few dozen Americans beat the crap out of 1000+
           lunatic barbarians who made 3 mass rushes at them but couldn't
           budge them from their position for 48+ hours?  Or does it show
           some leftist lie trying to justify pulling out and making us
           (again) the laughing stock of the world a la Jimmy Carter/Iran?
           (again) the laughing stock of the world a la Reagan/Beirut?
           \_ History lesson: It was Republican pressure that pulled
              Clinton out of Somalia.
              \_ Leadership lesson: The President is the CIC and decides who
                 goes where, when, why and when they come back.  Thanks for
                 the effort.  Are you going to claim all bad things are the
                 fault of the Republicans pressuring the poor baby and all
                 good things are the result of the heroic Clinton valiantly
                 resisting the eveil-doers of the right?  Oh please....
                 \_ Darn Bush Sr. sent them there for no good reason, mostly
                    to distract people from his having done nada on the
                    domestic front.  Maybe that's why all the reporters
                    were there waiting when the troops first landed in
           \_ What was the mission at Somalia?  (Sorry I missed some
                      American history.)
              \_ Some bullshit about sending our men there on some sort of
                 'peace keeping' mission.  As if there was peace there to
                 keep.  Very similar idea to sending our men to Haiti and
                 handing them brooms to sweep their filthy fucking third
                 world streets.  Ask a Clinton fan about proper use of the
                 \_ Bush Sr. sent them there.
           \_ the former. over ninety minutes of it is pure action.
              (BTW is was more than a few dozen. it was 99 Rangers - one
                \_ Don't forget the Deltas. -=Liberal Berkeleyite
                   who accepts the occastional necessary use of force.
               \_ IIRC, the rangers were split into 3 groups for most of the
                  time.  They only hooked up again on the last day shortly
                  before getting out.
        \_ I think Ridley Scott should stick to making Aliens.
           \- See the "war on afganistan". I have no doubt many of the
              people in the armed forces are have all the boy scout
              virtues and would do what is asked of them by and for their
              country. Nevertheless the way this war was conducted was
              "we will bomb while you ride into the valley of death on
              horseback" [we'll give you some ammo but no APCs]. and
              then "we'll cut you a check to walk through the caves
              facing boobytraps and ambushes ... bringing the market
              to war fighting ... while we back at our armed compound."
              This was very obvious and prominent in Afganistan and it
              looks sort of bad. The europeans [aside from the Brits]
              look even more foolish. This is pretty obvious to much of
              the world and part of the reason for the ambivalence towards
              the US. --psb
              \_ And you suppose if 500,000 Americans showed up it would've
                 been better and over faster?
2002/1/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23558 Activity:moderate
1/14    Bush chokes on pretzel:
        \_ Uh yes.  This is newsworthy because?  This isn't even worth motd
           space much less the ridiculous national media attention.  I don't
           care about this any more than I cared about Carter's hemorrhoids,
           Reagan's flu, the first Bush's spots, or the warts on Clinton's
           face and neck.  One would think there were more interesting things
           going on in the world than someone choking on a snack, even the
           President.  This is only more painful seeing it come from the BBC,
           so now we know pretzels are an international issue.  Sheesh.
           \_ I'm sure Clinton had warts on other parts of his body...
                \_ Probably but I don't want to know that either.
              \_ And Lewinsky choked on ......
              \_ And Lewinsky choked on ...... a toothpick.
2002/1/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23516 Activity:high
        1/9     Ahh, the Clinton Legacy -
        Loral Agrees to Pay U.S. $14 Million
        \_ How about you refute rather than delete, oh thats right,
           this is Berkeley's definition of 'free speech'
           \_ No, it's not the article but your comment. You make the
              leap from Loral to Clinton (even the article didn't do
              that) without any logical flow. You just used the word
              Clinton and some defense comany in the same sentence, just
              because you wanted to, and then posted the URL that you
              have been spending your whole day "stumbling across" as
              you puruse through http://drudgereport.com. Oh, that's right,
              this is Berkeley - we don't need to sound intelligible.
              We just have to post URLs of anything we can find that's
              anti-liberal and it's unequiviocally correct.
                \_ <troll>So maybe you should read yourself to find out why ten
                   years ago China's rockets blew up on launch, but today
                   they have the capability to put satellites in orbit
                   with MIRVs.  Hint: Ron Brown, Commerce Secratary.... and
                   former president Clinton, who at the vehement resistance
                   from the Pentagon and State Department, transferred
                   technology export restrictions to the Commerce Department.
                   This, together with contributions to the DNC,
                   was the true scandal of the Clinton administration.  It was
                   obscurred by Lewinsky because the Republicans
                   also had their hands out.</troll>
2002/1/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia] UID:23471 Activity:nil
1/4     http://www.lucianne.com  Top two entries about Buddy The Dog.  I'm deeply
        saddened.  (there's even a freerepublic connection here for you
        freeper fans!)
        \_ Here I will save you the trouble:
        "Horse sheet!" he writes. "Buddy was just another prop for photo op's,
        and served his purpose well. The liberal/socialist bought into to
        'Clinton family values' story, but Socks & Buddy were merely appendages
        that served their masters political aims. After serving, they were
        summarily cast aside because they no longer served any purpose.
        (Sir Edmund) Hillary and Bubba are both narcissistic sociopaths who
        manipulate both people and animals for their personal gain."
        Yep, that's it folks. This is what conservatives do in their spare
        time, make up things they imagine the Clinton's might have done,
        and then slap themselves on the back for being so clever. You
        are all pathetic little sheep.
2001/12/31 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23411 Activity:nil
12/30   Why does the EPA, Department of Interior, the IRS,
        soon NASA, ... basically every branch of government
        have SWAT teams?
2001/12/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23367 Activity:nil
12/25   I miss Clinton
        "What's more, the entire impeachment process had been propelled
        by an effort to "get" Clinton -- the "vast right-wing conspiracy"
        of Hillary Clinton's telling and accurate phrase".

        Mmm.  Idiot.
2001/12/16 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:23266 Activity:high
12/16   george jr.: "father, no matter what i do, the country
        despises me.  the world despises me."
        george sr.: "back in the day, when everyone knew what
        a piece of shit i was, i'd get my best friend sadam to
        back me.  sure it'd take a few extra bucks, but he'd
        back me."
        george jr.: "so what should i do?"
        george sr.: "one day, pretend you're worried about the
        future of america's education and while you're there,
        unaware of course, there'll be random attacks.  do one
        by the pentagon, not on it, but near, and I mean NEAR
        it so that everyone won't blame the us.  then hit the
        world trade center."
        george jr.: "why the world trade center?"
        george sr.: "because you moron that's the people that
        hate you! but if all the investors are scared to work,
        then no one will continue buying into tech.  people
        will feel there's a need for my national security
        defense plan."
        george jr.: "wait, a minute!  That was my idea!"
        george sr.: "i told you to read my lips when you were
        doing the interview. as i was saying, people will
        finally buy into, okay, OUR, national security defense
        plan.  people will be dumb enough because they're like
        sheep to think that they can get work in defense
        george jr.: "But dad, no one wants to work in
        george sr.: "You idiot!  aren't you listening?!?!?!
        if we dump a few terrorist attacks, which are cheap
        since islamic people come from 3rd world nations where
        the women are ugly, people will be scared into
        believing we need a national defense improved.  that
        way, the economy will improve but improve not on crap
        like the internet or that whole new economy gibberish
        that clinton guy was such a proponent of.  it will be
        on what us republicans always deemed appropriate: on
        the back of the good ol' working government!  in
        addition, it'll justify all that push for increases
        surveilance over that anarchic, hippy internet thing
        as corporations like the music industry, disney, the
        movie industry, and microsoft will want that have been
        so generous in "donating" their time and other, ahem,
        resources, to our worthy cause.  those damn, hippy
        scientists should've never let the net go out of ARPA.
         anyway, but now that we're, I mean, huh huh, you're
        in charge again, it'll only be a matter of time before
        the american public will renew all of the republicans
        in congress.  we'll show the americans that we're
        sensitive and have a *REAL* plan for boosting our
        economy.  It'll just be like old times."
        George Jr: "but the old times sucked!"
        George Sr: "Shut up!  Get out!  You infidel!  Go back
        to your Mexican day laborers!  And don't come back
        until you're willing to listen!"
        George Jr: "Yes, dad."
2001/12/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23197 Activity:very high
12/9    Enron's history
        \_ i can hardly read that article, it's impossible
           to have truly unbiased journalism, but that article's
           smirking tone is too excessive to take seriously,
           there's probably a couple of facts in there, maybe
           you could summarize?  the pittsburgh tribune is also
           owned by the billionaire who has dedicated his fortune
           to destroying bill clinton.  great, that article is
                \_ Do some research on Ron Brown.  That'll help.  Don't
                   get me wrong, I think all politicians are crooks,
                   including many 'conservatives'.
        \_ Enron gave $2M to the Republicans in 2000 and 1/4 that to Dems.
           Nice theory, but the facts condradict it.
                \_ Oh that's right, Enron's 1990's business deals in China,
                   Africa, and the Balkans (eg. Croatia) were mediated
                   by who else, the all powerful then Governor of Texas.
                   Why go through the Commerce / State department when
                   you have the state government of Texas at your disposal.
                   Enron is metaphor for the (Clinton) 90's.
                   BTW you are right in one respect, the real scandal of
                   Clinton's administration, campaign contributions
                   from foreign sources, was not investigated because
                   both the Dems and Repubs had their hands open.
                   \_ Except Enron is based in Texas, and was a big energy
                      company, and in the pocket of the Republican party.
                      Yeah, except for that, it was exactly like the Clinton
        \_ None of this Rep vs Dem political shit has anything to do with
           anything.  This is just another poorly run 90's company that was
           prepared for good times but not bad times.  There's no story here.
           It's the same as any dotcom that went under just bigger.  Trying
           to say it has something to do with Clinton/Bush is just stupid.
           \_ Perty much. The questions that linger should focus on how
              noone seemed to care that the company was a house of cards
              and if anyone is criminally negligent for it.
2001/11/25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:23099 Activity:high
11/25   http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm for what happened to the
        Israelis that got picked up.
        \_ article doesn't mention the 995 other middle easterners
        who are also detained under similar conditions.
          \_ So what?  That wasn't what someone was asking about a few days
             ago.  We know there's a pile of arab terrorists and sympathisers
             in prison.  Someone wanted to know about the Jews with the
        \_ face it. You give the poor uneducated Arabs what they want (land
           and food) and the next day they will bitch that you should
           give them more.
2001/10/29 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:22854 Activity:high
10/28   Doesn't get much better than this...
        \_ Someone who takes that long obviously doesn't have a point to make.
                \_ Can you identify any errors in what Rep. Barr says?
        \_ can you say filibuster?
2001/10/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:22794 Activity:nil
10/22   Clintons booed by thousands, including NYPD and NYFD

[if you're going to restore this then restore the whole thread]

                                           \_ File not found.
        \_ The Coalition to Destroy the Clintons By Any Means Necessary is
                \_ Oh right, I forgot, Clinton is up there with (maybe
                   above) Washington, Lincoln and Jefferson.  Hillary for
2001/10/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22790 Activity:very high
10/21   Mommy, why is Mr. Bush wearing matching pajamas and holding hands with
        that short Chinese man?
        \_ thats cuz hes about to go to bed with the chineses.
                \_ That was Clinton and Gore, pass tense.
                \_ Bush loves China as much as they love him.. very little
                   But he needs China's support in this "war"
                   Bush, Sr. was in bed with China long before Clinton admin.
                   made it a common practice. Many ex-Bush,Sr. appointees
                   worked on their behalf. No one is honest in politics
                        \_ Sorry, you're analogy is wrong.  The Bushs did
                           not relax technology export restrictions for
           marketing department.
                           campaign dollars.  Clinton's foreign policy
                           was run from the Commerce Department.  Not to
                           say the Bushs were perfect at all, but compared
                           to Clinton they are/were angels.
                           \_ Bush Sr. traded weapons to hostile foreign
                              power in order to manipulate the American
                              public and you call them angels? Isn't this
                              exactly what you accuse Clinton of doing?
                                \_ I seem to remember something called...
                                   wait, what was it..?? oh thats
                                   right the Cold War.  This was to
                                   fight Communism, not line his pockets.
                                   \_ This was to defeat Carter, not fight
                                      Communism. Unless you are you going
                                      to try and claim Carter was a Communist.
                                      Communism. Unless you are going to
                                      try and claim Carter was a Communist.
                                      \_ More evidence Pres. Carter was inept.
                                         He was President for petes sakes,
                                         and had over a year to negotiate
                                         for the release of the hostages.
                                      \_ Was that referring to Irangate?
                                         Didn't that happen long after Carter
                                         was defeated?
           \_ "chineses"?  Is that anything like "sneezes"?
        \_ Jiang is an idiot.  Those commies need to learn how to improve their
           marketing department.  Isn't Jiang from Shanghai, and isn't Shanghai
           the most cosmopolitan city in China?  Some subordinate need to tell
           Jiang he is an idiot.
           \_ I heard that Shanghai was once the most cosmo city but not
              \_ it still is.
           \_ Is that where they make all those cool movies?
        \_ After watching the TV clip with everyone wearing the "traditional
           style silk jackets", I have to say that the jackets made Jiang and
           Bush and all the other leaders look like clowns.  Don't know whose
           stupid idea it was.  --- Chinese
        \_ Girl, you should be so lucky to be Mr. Jiang's sixth concubine!
2001/10/5-6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:22646 Activity:high
10/4    "And there is no doubt in my mind, not one doubt in my mind, that we
        will fail," the president said.
        \_ Better than jerking off in the Oval Office sink.
           \_ Do you honestly believe this?  Competence is much more
                important to me...
              \_ let real actions and decisions be the basis for judging
                 competence, not speaking skills.
                \_ And we are all too familiar with Clinton's
                   policy coups... take for example, quilt making
                   at the CIA in the name of diversity.  Oh, and
                   don't forget helping the KLA (read Muslim terrorists)
                   dismantle Serbia.
                   \_ I agree. Clinton shouldn't have bombed Serbia. He
                      should have bombed the RNC headquarters.
                        \_  Oh I forgot, elite intellectuals
                            (read liberals) know whats best for everyone,
                            especially victims like minorities
                            and the poor.
                            \_ Hey, now you're learning. Democrats, in
                               general, ARE smarter than Republicans and
                               know what's right (or "rite" in Bushspeak)
                               for society.
                                \_ You have just illustrated the problem
                                   better than I could have in a 1000
                                   \_ *pshaw*  As if you even KNOW a
                                      1000 words....
        \_ "But if you fail (as you are sure to fail) then guard yourselves
            against the Fire whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the
            unbelievers."  -Q 2:23-5
2001/9/16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:22476 Activity:insanely high
9/15    Which are some of the most newsworthy story since the end of WWII:
                Bosnia civil war
                Russian Afghan & Chechen wars
                Beirut marine barracks blown up
                Iran revolution & hostage rescue
                Cuban Missile Crisis
                Vietnam War
                Korean War
                Martin Luther King/Civil Rights Movement
                Shuttle 1986 disaster
                Columbine Incident
                2001 WTC
                Any incident/war relating to Israel
                The Cold War and the end of the Cold War
                JFK Assasination
                Man walks on moon
                Birds and Snakes
                Lenny Bruce Not Being Afraid
                Eye of the Hurricaine
        \_ diana, elvis, iran hostages, nixon, the Internet
           \_ lots of people say nixon/watergate changed the
              media for good, and since they tell 99% of us
              what to think, that's got to be really close to
              the top of the list
           \_ we didn't start the fire. it was always burning.
        \_ Clinton Impeachment, Clinton selling out this country.
        \_ OJ Simpson trial.  That thing dominated the news for YEARS.
2001/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:22440 Activity:high
9/13    So glad Clinton is not in office, but of course this being the CSUA
        populated by liberal beatnicks I wont have most people agreeing
        with me. It's so ha-ha that Clinton is stuck in Australia unable
        to come back to make his grandstanding photo-op with an intern.
        \_ It's amazing what idiocy or lack of maturity many CSUA
           Republicans show in this thread, particularly during a
           time like this.
        \_ They brainwashed you good.
           \_ Pluz! Albright, Berger, and Cohen were the most incompetent
              leaders. They cut short the career of a fine officer (Clark)
              because they didn't want to piss off the Russians. They
              hamstringed the military much like LBJ did in Nam during
              Kosovo. Powell, Rice, and Rumsfeld are all veterans, who are
              doing their 2nd tour of Washington already.
              \_ Kosovo? You mean that place that the Republicans said we
                 should never be involved in? The place where the military
                 was gonna put in Apaches until they realized they had no
                 way to retrieve lost pilots? Powell? The guy who recommended
                 stopping the Gulf war before destroying the core of Iraqi
                 military? Rice? The lady whose speciality is SOVIET politics
                 and whose advice made Bush look like an idiot in Europe?
                 Rumsfeld? The one who is pushing for missle defense despite
                 the fact no one has developed a VIABLE system yet?
                 \_ I agree these guys are second string. I'd feel a whole
                    lot safer if Weinberger, MacFarlane et. al. were in the
                    WH, but I'd take who we've got now over Clinton's team
                    any day.
                    \_ Wasn't he the guy who assumed the role of the
                       president ahead of the House speaker and the
                       President pro-tempre?
                       \_ how quickly we forget our history - you are talking
                          about General Alexander Haig, former deputy NSA
                          and Chief of staff under Nixon, and secofstate under
                          reagan when he was shot and claimed he was Prez
                          \_ Haig was pretty bad ass.
                    \_ Yes, they did so well in getting Marines killed in
                       Lebanon and selling arms to the Iranians and Iraqis.
                       Anyone want a Stinger I Missle complete with Afghani
                       Anyone want a Stinger I Missle complete with Afgani
                       Anyone want a Stinger I Missle complete with Afganhi
                       instructions? Crap on military planes, but swell on
                       passenger ones.
                       \_ I guess you missed the part about a free poland,
                          the fall of the berlin wall and the utter and
                          total destruction of soviet communism. Zero Option
                          was a total success.
                       passenger planes.
        \_ if Clinton had still been in office, Bin Laden would have simply
           bribed him with lots of young women.
           \_ I prefer Double D's, one for each hand, in case anyone is
              interested in bribing me. - Bill C.
        \_ I agree with you. Clinton/Gore would have been a disaster, they'd
           be calling Sharon and telling me hand over Jerusalem and calling
           Saddam and telling him the sanctions are gone and he can invade
           which ever nation he wanted. The talk would be of "understanding"
           and our arrogance.
           \_ I think he'd invite bin Laden to a summit with all the western
              world's leaders at the top of the U.N. building.
              \_ I prefer the Playboy Mansion to the UN building. Those
                 little bunnies sure are cute. - Bill C.
           \_ Garbage.  Clinton stood up to Milosevic and spanked his arse,
              unlike Republican weenies.  Clinton is my hero!
              \_ He's my hero too, and he's really good at spanking ass!
                 - Monica L.
                 \_ Spanking your ass with his what?
                    \_ If I didn't tell Linda, why should I tell you
                       what my president spanks me with? - Monica
                 \_ I did not spank that woman. Monica Lewinsky. - Bill C
                    \_ Can you spank me tonight Mr. Pres.? I've been a
                       very bad girl. - Monica
              \_ Yeah, while his adamant refusal to send in ground forces
                 allowed Milosevic to kill and displace pretty near every
                 ethnic Albanian in the country.  Way to go Bill.
                 \_ Who cares about the damned Albanians? They breed like rats.
        \_ Man, you Clinton/Gore haters really do need to get a life. In
           the face of tragedy, you turn it into petty politics.
              \_ I prefer the Playboy Mansion to the UN building. - Bill C.
2001/9/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:22436 Activity:nil
9/13    Big brother is not the soln. to the problem:
        \_ "Benjamin Franklin said, people who 'give up essential liberty to
           obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety,'"
        \_ So much for America's love of freedom.
        \_ "Benjamin Franklin said, people deserve neither liberty nor freedom"
           \_ Ben Franklin said that? I don't think so.
2001/9/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:22427 Activity:high
9/12    Help, we're allied with Sharon and we can't get out!
        \_ A clinton/gore voter no doubt
           \_ A cheney/bush supporter of course
              \_ http://www.FreeRepublic.com/forum/a3ba03b327f42.htm
           \_ A cheney/bush voter of course
                 \_ conservative rag - what can you say?
                    \_ That the article is correct, but House
                       Repubs are also to blame.
2001/7/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:21729 Activity:high
7/6     Any good cigar shops in/around Berkeley?
        \_ Andronico's sells cigars.  I don't know how good they are though.
           \_ Is there any value to this post whatsoever? If the poster
              wanted places to buy cigars, couldn't he/she have simply
              looked in a phone book?
              \_ It's a troll, dumbass.  He was expecting an answer like
                 "just get the cigar from Lewinsky's pussy" or something
                 like that.  Anybody tried the clinton move with your GF?
                 That is sticking a cigar into your GF's pussy and then
                 tasting it.
                \_ Out of curiosity, what kind of responses are you
                expecting from this question?
                Allow me to examine it. Let's just say, for the sake of
                discussion that one of you guys did in fact pull a
                clinton. Do you think any of you would actually admit it?
                Hells no...people here aren't getting that sort of play,
                so only in their dreams would they do that. Shit, people
                here probably don't even know how to smoke a cigar. Now
                let's look at the flipside. Let's assume the more likely
                scenario where no one here has pulled a clinton. What's
                even more likely gonna happen is that John Q. Poser is
                gonna say that he has pulled a clinton maneuver, and
                make up all sorts of ridiculous, gory details about how
                how he executed with grace and success and shit. He'll
                think others'll think he's a pimp; and he'll feel pimpy for
                coming up with a great narrative. But, sorry, it's all
                bullshit. So, bottom line...don't believe a word other
                than "no, sorry I haven't" that anyone writes. Bye-bye.
        \_ Yes.
2001/7/6 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21725 Activity:high
7/5     The U.N. is your friend.
        \_ I cannot believe that any rational patriotic american
           would wish to abandon the principles of the revolution
           and the constitution for UN lead global government.
           The first thing we need to do is to get that shitty
           organization of american soil and then we need to see
           how well they can survive without our money. And the
           only way the UN is going to get my guns is to pry them
           from my cold dead hands!
           \_ yes! we must sotop soil from organizing! an organization
           of American soil could be devastating for aggriculture in this
           nation!! ...or did you mean "off american soil?"
           \_ It's a joke son.
2001/6/12 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:21481 Activity:high
6/11    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/felkins1.html
        now you know why Chaney was forced to sell his shares in Halliburton.
        Ahh will you look at that: Chaney is a director of EDS... and where has
        EDS been getting all their money from......(EDS got like a 5 billion
        contract with the navy to upgrade their whole IT systems.)
        I got pissed off at Verizon when I was ready up on them- GTE ( now
        Verizon ) sold their government systems group to "lockheed" ( not
        sure if it was lockeed ) and DYncorp. . Dyncorp is a shit hot company
        when it comes to govn sub contracts which probably no one has ever
        heard of.
        \_ God damn conservatives!  I am so mad at them!!11!
        \_ Duh... virtually every politician profits from their influence.
           \_ this may be true, but most people, as in the VICE PRESIDENT
              OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, are not so blatant about it.
           I don't condone it, but since you are such a through investigator,
           why don't you look into why Clinton moved technology export
           and licensing from the State Department to the Commerce Department.
           All the while John Huang, who was subsequently convicted of
           of funneling campaign contributions from the People's Republic
           of China to the DNC, worked there.  Clinton took
           this behavoir to an all time low and sold out the country at the
           same time.
           Why is there outrage from liberals about corrupt government, yet,
           the first chance they get they vote to raise taxes.  Bizarre!
           At least conservatives are for smaller government.  I'll take the
           lesser of two evils any day.
           \_ i don't think it was a repub vs. democrat thing, it just sounds
              more like a "what is going on here (currently) post?"
           \_ your attempts at bipartisan strawmen serve your tri-lateral
                                is this like from the kama sutra? _/
              council masters well.  Bravo.
        Brown and Root - heard of them-- they did the whole logistics support
        operation in Bosnia: ( $2 Billion
        http://www.dtic.mil/bosnia/army/arnews/16.html  ), FYI, I'm a
        republican - orig poster.  I just want to make sense of who the big
        shakers are. (i already know it ain't no ".com")
        \_ Thanks tjb. Now please go back to the crack pipe.
2001/4/30-5/1 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21142 Activity:insanely high 66%like:21883
4/30    Motd poll: Do you smoke cigarettes?
        yes, unfortunately ..
        no .....
        no, unfortunately .
        \_ Related poll: Do you smoke pot?
           yes .
           no ..
                \_ I never inhaled!
                   \_ Neither did I Mr. President. - Monica
           no, but sat around a bunch of people smoking pot all night long ..
           not anymore .
        \_ What would be interesting is to see a comparison of income vs.
           drug use for same/similar major and GPA.
           \_ Dubya makes tons of money and he used to snort coke.
                \_ $200k/year isn't tons of money and the coke story was
                   rumor.  Gimme the URL that quotes anyone anywhere saying
                   they got stoned with GWB or saw him do lines or whatever.
                   And no, sticking it on your own website doesn't count,
                   smart ass.
                   \_ he made millions selling an interest
                      in the state funded Texas Rangers
                   \_ Its $400K a year for the president these days.
                        \_ No.  It isn't.  Dumbshit.
                           \_ No its $400K:
                                  \_ This is only a bill.  Where's the part
                                     that says it was passed and signed into
                                     law by Clinton?  We still have laws in
                                     this country, one of them says the
                                     President must sign the final bill for a
                                     new law to take effect.
                                     \_ Its $390K actually:
                                        \_ thank you for posting a real link
                                           with reasonable info instead of
                                           more noise about unsigned bills.
                   \_ Former oil men tend to make more from investments than
                      than from salary. Try $894,880.
                   \_ No fair, I wanted to stick it on my web site, http://cnn.com.
                      - Ted Turner
                        \_ *laugh* Sure, Ted, I'd love to see it on http://cnn.com.
                           You're exempt from this rule as long as you pay
                           off our U.N. "debt" with personal wealth.
2001/3/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:20766 Activity:high
3/12    our navy sucks, they just bomb observers at a training , before they
        killed japanese kids on a fishing boat.
        \_ We need better strategerie, something Clinton and those lousy
           democrats could never do.
        \_ hey chickenshit, i'm glad you are safely behind your monitor
           instead of cockpit cuz you can yak (and yank) all you want, but
           unless you've donned the uniform and bled for something you
           believe in, you ain't qualified to talk about squat.
           \_ This is Colonel Leslie "Hap" Hapablap.  If you don't
              open that door I'll tear you up like a Kleenex at a snot
              party! Sweet Enola Gay, Son!  I'm going to come in there
              and corpse you up -- corpse you up and mail you to mama!
           \_ listen twink, I posted this and I expect better , way better
             from the military. There is no honor when messing around in a
             sub and handling weaponry capable of destroying countless lives.
             I expect way better than myself in the military.
           \_ We can only talk about things that we've done for ourselves?
              what a stupid attitude.  Time to stop talking about politics
              and art, to start with.
                \_ You are capable of talking about anything you like (ie: can)
                   however you come off sounding like an idiot when you pick
                   one or two unfortunate accidents and come up with witty
                   paint-them-with-a-wide-brush commentary like, "our navy
                   sucks".  And who said the rest of us are unqualified by
                   that standard to discuss politics and art?
                   \_ well, the poster to whom I replied says you aren't
                      qualified to talk about politics and art (and various
                      other things)
        \_ That's probably because the training has degraded.  I read that
           cadets can now wear tennis shoes instead of boots during hiking
        \_ that's cuz they started using Microsoft NT in 1998. Or that's just
           a sign of the things to come, who knows.
        \_ yvan eht nioj
           \_ hey, nice song
2001/2/25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:20682 Activity:high
2/25    One of the nuns came in and said she had been over in Manhattan and had
hamster bumped into Bill Clinton. "I said, 'Pardon me.' "He said,
        'Forty thousand."'
2001/2/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:20555 Activity:moderate
2/9     I keep hearing "Bush retreats to his ranch." What is that like, a
        mansion or somethin'? How come Clinton never retreats to his ranch
        or penthouse (possibly with interns)?
        \_ Clinton retreated to the oral^H^H^Hval office
           \_ That is so incredibly stupid it's making my eyes bleed.
        \_ Watch a western sometime, cowboy, and then you'll understand.
           \_ Is this a "Silverado" or a "Josey Wales" kinda retreat?
              \_ It's a "daddy, what do I do now?" sort of retreat.
2001/1/21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:20392 Activity:nil
1/20    No matter what you think of their father's political views, who is
        cuter?  Gore's daughters or Bush's daughter(s)?  Or Clinton's
        \_ URL for comparison please?
        \_ Nothing special about any of em.
        \_ Which one will be most likely in Playboy first?
                \_ yermom
2001/1/20 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:20387 Activity:very high
1/20    And so ends Clinton's reign of terror.
        \_ January 20, 2001 will be a day that will live in infamy.
           \_ George would not have understood that reference.
        \_ Our long nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over.
2001/1/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:20305 Activity:nil
1/11    Economist's final judgement on Bill Clinton's presidency:
                        - !psb
        \_ Just another indication that state governors shouldn't be
           president. Clinton just didn't have the stomach for
           mallicious muckracking you can only find in Congress.
2001/1/5 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:20239 Activity:nil
1/3     The clinton Justice Department using the IRS to punish clinton foes
        Nixon-style?  How can this be?  More VWRC noise from the evil and
        ill informed Fox 'news'.
        \_ You meant to say VRWC.
                \_ Don't bring facts into this.  I'm feeling conservative
                   \_ didn't this read "I'm feeling liberal" a short while ago?
2000/12/18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:20120 Activity:very high
12/17   http://www.aagen.org/hottopics/state/usatoday_991229.htm
        Screw Bush and his token African-Americans.  Clinton clearly had a
        more diverse group of higher talented people without tokenizing any
        \_ You shouldn't wish ill fame on the president, even if what you
           do say is true. I'm sure part of Bush's intentions are PR as
           opposed to Clinton who just like having women around. :)
           The one thing I didn't like about when Clinton took office is
           that the Republicans in power immediately went to work at
           destroying the president's reputation at all costs.  It's not
           very productive to treat politics as a religious war which is
           probably why Bush and Gore said what they said. Having said
           that, it's going to be another 4 years whether or not you voted
           for the president in office and the country will survive another
           4 years whether or not you think so. So probably the best and most
           patriotic thinig to do is to support the new presidency even
           if you are a Democrat. -Gore supporter
           if you are a Democrat. Wouldn't you rather see the country
           prosper than to prove that Bush is an idiot?-Gore supporter
        \_ if bush hires a group of minorities, and they all stand in a circle,
           does that make them a token ring?
           \_ so each person can only talk to the president by passing the
              message the the person next to him/her?  what if the link
              breaks? i say, bush should use an ethernet.
           \_ Yes, a token ring.  You'd be lucky to get 1bps over it though.
2000/12/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:20100 Activity:high
12/13   http://cnnfn.cnn.com/images/markets/graphs/nasdaq133624786.gif
        \_ All hail to the chief.
           \_ well, there _was_ a recession the last time a Bush was in office.
                \_ Which ended before Clinton got into office.  And now here
                   we are 8 years later, still in Clinton's term heading into
                   what?  A recession.  No energy policy, no foreign policy,
                   no domestic economic policy, no policy beyond his zipper
                   and wagging the dog blowing up aspirin factories in Africa
                   and you wonder why everything is tanking?
                   \_ Recession my ass.  Nobody asked you to put all your
                      sorry money into tech stocks.  Clinton made me a
                        \_ Joining real world now?  I didn't say one word about
                           tech stocks or the market.  Typical mindless lefty,
                           you ducked my entire statement, created a straw man,
                           and put forth a comment about your own status
                           gained prior to the current economic slide that has
                           nothing to do with today or the future.  I do find
                           it curious that "Clinton made" you a millionaire.
                           How exactly did he do that?  This should be good
                           for a laugh.
                           \_ Are you serious?  Do you know why you are a
                              joke?  Alan Greenspan (whom Republican
                              claims as one of theirs because he is first
                              appointed under a Republican president)
                              raised interest rates to prevent a bubble.
                              Now that his work is beginning to show results,
                              you call it a recession and blame it on Clinton.
                                \_ I'm serious.  Greenspan, an 8 year long
                                   Clinton administration man raised rates too
                                   high, too fast, and kept them there.  Hello
                                   recession.  You call a recession "results"?
                                   I call it a recession.  I'm still waiting
                                   to hear what the nation's economic, foreign,
                                   and energy policies are.  I won't hold my
                                   breath.  We don't have any policies and
                                   haven't for almost 8 years.  "Greenspan has
                                   raised interest to keep inflation down" is
                                   not a domestic economic policy.  It's been
                                   8 long painful years of zippers and the
                                   vain search for a Clinton Legacy that just
                                   simply doesn't exist.
                                   \_ Well, it's been eight happy, fulfilling and
                                      bountiful years for me.
2000/11/26-28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Recreation/Media] UID:19913 Activity:moderate
11/25   perl -i -ep "AnyGivenSunday--OliverStone" s/football stars/programmers/g
        and the movie would still be valid. - comments?
        \_ Whatever.
        \_ That movie sucked really poorly. Oliver Stone is one of the worst
           directors in the history of movies.  The movie certainly could not
           have been worse, whether it was about programmers or even executive
                \_ Any movie that has eyeballs flying all over the place
                   is pretty cool.  It could have done without the sausage
                   action, though.  -John
           \_ Oliver Stone's next movie is going to be a hit: Oliver Stone's
              Bill Clinton, staring Richard Gere as Bill, Annette Benning as
              Hillary Clinton, Tori Spelling as Monica, Brent Spiner as Al
              Gore, Patricia Ruttledge as Madaline Albright, Judi Dench as
              Janet Reno. Open parts include: Tipper Gore, Ken Star, Newt,
              and First Dyke Chelsea.
              \_ John Goodman as Newt, Don Knotts as Ken Starr, Meredith
                 Baxter Birney as Tipper and Melissa Joan Hart as Chelsea
                 \_ John Goodman's too tall for Newt. Rush Limbaugh maybe
                    but not Newt.
                    MJH is too attractive to be Chelsea, need someone uglier,
                    like that chick on Boy Meets World.
                    Don Knotts as Ken Starr, that's pretty funny, though
                    it might be too funny. Need someone really stiff.
                    Now who would you get for Joycellen Elders? Mrs. Cosby?
                    How about Clarence Thomas?
2000/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19888 Activity:high 61%like:19887
11/21  hand-count must be counted, but it will not be enough!
        -_Gore stole election
          \_ Of course it'll be enough.  Our people are doing the check for
             voter intent.  They're going to intend 1000+ Gore votes from
             thin air.  The kicker is that the FL SC used Illinois law in
             their ruling.  I got a big laugh out of that.  Home state to
             Daley and his vote box stuffing machine!  Great stuff!  Pie in
             the face for all republicans! ahhahahhahha!
          \_ He's getting help:

2000/11/22 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19887 Activity:nil 66%like:19883 61%like:19888
11/21  hand-count must be counted, but it will not be enough!
        -_Gore stole election
          \_ He's getting help:

2000/11/18-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19837 Activity:high
11/17   King Clinton visits Vietnam:


        Tran Hoai Dung, 17, said the president "was very smiley, kind
        and friendly to us. "He had a real ... gallantry about him,"
        she sighed. "He's truly a king."

        All Hail!
        \_ How about BC saying the following:

           "In our experience, guaranteeing the right to religious
            worship and the right to political dissent does not
            threaten the stability of a society," he said. "Instead it
            builds people's confidence in the fairness of our

            Perhaps he should be talking to ALGOR's lawyers.
                \_ Except that part was reported to have been blurred over
                   when they translated it to the Vietnamese public.  Not BC's
                   fault, I'm sure, but nice of the Vietnamese government to
                   make sure to skip that part.  I note that BC is enjoying
                   his final days in office.  He hasn't been happier since
                   seeing Al lose the election and his wife make it into
                   office with Al turning down his help and his wife taking
                   it by the bucket load.  Poor Al.  Shouldn't have turned
                   away from his Master.
2000/11/17-19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19821 Activity:nil
11/16 More important than what the media talks about is what they don't.
      A few items no longer or never mentioned:  James Car-Vile, Jesse
      Jackson and the "it's another Selma!" brigade, the confused people,
      Hillary!, Bill, any senior Democrats publicly stating their support
      for Al Gore (Wexler's mewling doesn't count), Wexler, Al Gore's
      attempted coup, election fraud, the networks calling Florida 70+
      minutes before the pandhandle polls closed (when working repubs are
      going to the polls), the networks calling Gore states instantly and
      waiting hours to call Bush states creating the false appearance that
      Gore was sweeping the election.  And finally a comment on GWB: GWB is
      clearly too stupid to realise you can't fight the Democrats on their
      own terms, so here he is plowing forward, day after day, pretty much
      ignoring the media, polls, and everything else, not really fighting
      too hard, just kind of being there, doing something the Dems have
      never encountered before: saying "No".  Bye Al.  Your career is over
      no matter what you do.  I've met Bill Clinton, and you sir, are no
      Bill Clinton.
      \_ Bill Clinton is my hero!
         \_ Bill Clinton was the best president we've had for a generation.
            \_ I'm da MAN! - BC
      \_ Another thing you never hear in the press: the fact that the
         Republicans have hand recounted Republican majority counties
         in Florida and added them to George Bush's votes and now want
         to stop the Democrats from doing the same:
         This is conservative newspaper who endorsed Bush, if you doubt
         the source.
         \_ Nyet, Comrade!  These votes were put through the machine again,
            despite what your pro-American yankee pig dog lying media would
            have you believe!  They were not hand counted by hundreds of
            people sitting in a room guessing how pregnant a chad is.  Try
            again.  Hail to the Emperor, Gore!  We must try harder in the
            future to persuade the public our lies are true!  Truth is media!
            The media is us!  Will of the People!  We are the Majority Party!
2000/11/14-15 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19782 Activity:very high
11/14   Now, Dems are not weenies as history of partisan battles
        between these two parties has demonstrated. However, I am
        truly amazed at the levels of PURE HATRED that emanates
        from the souls of Reps  towards Clinton, Hillary, Al, and
        a host of other Democratic personalities. What is going on
        with the Reps? Have they been infected with "mad cow disease"?
        \_ Because people like the Clinton's aren't interested in
           the standard give and take of normal political discourse
           and subsequent change. They don't acknowledge that the
           right has a valid philosophy and would utterly destroy
           them and go to a one party system if they could.  This
           is not true of the entire DNC.  Just the new Clinton
           Democrats from that generation.
        \_ Hi, My name is Bill Clinton and I'm here to take away
           your constitutional rights and sell your country to
           foreign governments in exchange for a good roll in the
                \_ RACIST!
                   \_ stupid, how is that racist? perhaps you are
                      the racist
                        \_ That you would even question such an obvious and
                           objective conclusion makes you RACIST!  He clearly
                           stated that he thinks Clinton is selling your
                           country to _FOREIGN_ governments.  What's wrong
                           with that?  They have rights, too!
                           \_ Why do you think people from foreign
                              countries are necessarily of a different
        \_ That's why people like Dubya.  He's a nice Republican.
           \_ He even does cocaine and has DUI's like commom people!
        \_ I think it goes both ways.  The Dems have "hatred" towards
           the republicans as well.  Just mention the words, Reagan,
           Bush, Jessie Helms, Pat Robertson, and you'll see.
           \_ people like Helms and Pat Robertson are much more to the right
              than Clinton or Gore.  I could see hating Nader or some such
              as that would be a more apt analogy.
              \_ Clinton is for Clinton.  Gore is *very* left.  Go read his
                 book.  Some really shocking stuff in there.
              \_ Hillary is quite Left.
                \_ WRONG.
                   \_ are you the same person who put RACIST up above?
                      Well, if you think Hillary is at the center,
                      then you must be so far left that you think Hillary
                      is at the center.  Unless you are saying that
                      Hillary is WAY LEFT.
                        \_ No.  Different person.  Hillary being an extreme
                           leftist has nothing to do with you or anyone else
                            being a racist.
                           \_ the text pattern was similar (WRONG and
                              RACIST).  no argument here.
                                \_ Uhm... both were ALL CAPS, a common way
                                   of 'yelling' in text. iT iSn'T lIkE ThERe
                                   wAs a rEaL paTtErN.
2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19760 Activity:high
11/13   Al Gore's actions are making me respect Richard Nixon's decision
        in 1960 vs John F. Kennedy.
        \_ Republicans are so funny.  The exits polls all showed Gore
           winning Florida comfortably.  First Bush wants to keep things
           \_ You're citing inaccuate exit polling as proof?  get real.
              \_ DUH! ABC News and CNN *GAVE* Florida to GORE. Just
                 because the people seem to have vote differently is
                 no reason to take it back.
           out of the courts, then he files suit.  First he wants the
           electoral process to run it's course, now his bother's
           secretary of state is imposing bullshit deadlines.  You
           are all fucking hypocrites who want to win so bad that you
           are willing to overlook the most important issue: whoever
           got the most votes in Florida should win Florida's EV.
           \_ Democrats are so funny.
              First Gore says "I'll abide by the outcome of the votes,
              no matter which way". Then he gets a recount. Now he's
              taking it TO COURT.
              "You all fucking hypocrites who want to win so bad that you
              are willing to overlook the most important issue: whoever
              got the most votes in Florida should win Florida's EV."
              Hint: That's BUSH.
        \_ why?  he got several of his aides to investigate the success
           probability of winning the election by a recount.
           the election wasn't as close electoral vote wise.
           he probably determined it wasn't worth it, and
           gracefully decided not to sue, saving himself time
           and making himself look good.  nixon also spent every
           moment of his life after resigning trying to recast
           himself as a noble elder statesman, it looks like his
           efforts succeeded.
                \_ Gore helped.
        \_ Asking for a recount?  Gore could well win.  He's not accusing
           anyone of fraud, just questioning the accuracy of the votes
           counted.  Was the Nixon/Kennedy electin within 300 votes of
           5M?  --PeterM
           \_ 2 recounts already favor bush.. now Gore wants a hand
           recount so he could get his cronies to fix it.
           \_ Trying to "clean" the results to fit his desired outcome.
              At this point it looks like Gore is willing to take the
              Presidency by ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
                \_ you've provided no argument whatsoever that he's
                trying to "clean" the results.
                  \_ What argument?  Jesus Christ!  Take Stat 2!!!  This
                     _should_ be common sense.  No one needs to make a case
                     for whether or not he's cleaning the results.  Gore's
                     team says that's *exactly* what they're doing.  Where
                     are you getting your news from?
                \_ How about "We'll keep recounting the votes until I WIN!"
        \_ Weird how it took a low life like Gore to make the country
           resurrect Nixon as a good man.  I think Nixon was total scum,
           especially after reading some of the tape transcripts, but in
           comparison, he was clearly the better man.  I can't believe I'm
           writing that Nixon was a better man than anyone... what has become
           of our country?
           \_ Watergate brought out the worst side of Nixon. Until that time
              he was a fairly decent man. Everyone has an inner daemon, it
              would be wrong to judge Nixon based only on one (albeit fatal
                \_ I read the tape transcripts.  Nixon was a total lowlife,
                   lower than a mere inner demon could account for.  Gore has
                   proven himself worse.  I still can't believe I'm saying
                   this:  Nixon isn't the lowest man ever in high office in
                   this country.  Gore is.  I'm saddened at the thought this
                   egomaniac might manage to steal the Presidency....
        \_ Before everyone starts LIONIZING Nixon, please read and get the
           facts straight so you're all not REWRITING HISTORY.
           \_ Funny.  I got ragged on for using Wired News to quote statements
              Gore made recently in public.  Wired News, a place run by SF
              leftists at the time.  But here someone else thinks that Salon
              is a good source to use for discussing history of 40 years ago?
              Don't quote crap like Salon.
        \_ http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/3/0,5716,57373+3,00.html
           \_ The http://britannica.com article leads me to infer that http://salon.com
              is re-writing history.  I really can't believe http://salon.com,
              here; is there a better source?
2000/11/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:19750 Activity:high
11/13   So anyone here heavily invested in the Clinton/Gore economy?  How about
        that NAS and Dow, eh?  I'm feeling lucky that my 1.5/share high risk
        stock gamble only dropped to 1 1/16.  It's the economy, stupid!
        \_ wait, I thought the economy was Reagan/Bush's, troll.  -tom
          \_ Uh oh, Tom changing the subject again.  Let me spell it out for
             you, Tom, so you can't spin it more than normal:  The market has
             tanked because The Daley/Gore ticket refuses to admit defeat and
             is stealing the election.  Is that simple enough for you, Tom?
             More county shopping announced this morning for the Democrats.
             \_ stop smoking crack and buy a clue: Jeb's State rigged the
                ballot in a Democrat-friendly area so as to feed his bro
                Florida's 25 electoral votes.  this isn't about being a
                Democrat, it's about preventing election fraud.
                \_ Please explain in detail without conspiracy theory, how
                   the Governor of a large state can steal a statewide
                   election, especially in areas under the politcal control of
                   the other party.  What process would this require?  Yeah,
                   I thought so....
             \_ Nah.  I think the market is tanking at the prospect of 4
                years of Bush Jr. as president.
                \_ The market rose the week prior to the election until the
                   DUI story came out and the race tightened. -jor
                   \_ you forgot a question mark.
                \_ Thank you Bill Clinton!  For 8 years of great economy!
                \_ No. The market is tanking because of fears the Gore
                   will be the Pres. for the next 4 years by means of a
                   judicial coup d'etat. Read the Wall Street Journal
                   you'll understand.
                   \_ I am not talking about today.  I am talking about
                      the market tanking over the past several months
                      as it appears likely that Bush Jr. may become
                      \_ Duh.  Check the political timeline vs. the market.
                         Don't make stuff up.  Check.  You'll find that Gore's
                         big jump ahead from The Kiss didn't do jack for the
                         market.  It continued to sink all summer.  Nice
                         theory though but next time try checking some facts.
                         \_ Garbage! The market rose nicely from mid-August
                            (Democratic convention) to end of August.  This
                            includes the Dow, Nasdog and S&P.
                            \_ Check a chart.  It was already on the way up
                               before the Dem convention in August until the
                               end of the month when Gore's ratings were up
                               due to The Kiss (which wasn't romantic at all)
                               and then promptly tanked and stayed there.
                               For those incapable of finding a chart:
                               Hopefully someone who plays the market will have
                               an easier time with this chart than the typical
                               Democrat Florida voter with a ballot.  -N'04!
                               \_ It's the fucking stock market.  Can't
                                  believe you dumb arses are trying to prove
                                  anything from it.  You people really have no
          \_ yet another democrat who states the truth when it best suits him
                \_ you're the one who gave Reagan/Bush credit for the
                   economy, not me.  -tom
                   \_ Tom, why are you a democrat?
                        \_ He feels guilty for having such a high salary and
                           prosperity earned through his hard work while
                           others, barely able to poke a hole in a piece of
                           paper need to cheat their way through life and get
                           4th, 5th, and 6th chances until they "get it right".
                                \_ Do you know Tom at all?  (Do you know any
                                   University sysadmin who feels guilty for
                                   getting paid half the salary they would
                                   in industry?)
                   \_ you forgot a question, Mark!
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19715 Activity:very high
11/10   Besides providing endless material for comedians, what will Clinton
        be remembered for?  ie, what difference did he make in our lives?
        \_ (1) NAFTA
               \_ Started by Bush. Clinton didn't have much to do with it.
                  \_ Why don't you do a search on google using "NAFTA Clinton"?
           (2) Suckering China into lots of WTO concessions.
               \_ Getting suckered by China is more like it.
                  \_ In that case why did the Republicans in Congress
                     voted overwhelmingly for it, and Clinton had to
                     put great efforts into convincing the Democrats
                     to vote for it?  Are you saying that the Republican
                     representatives are all suckers?
                     \_ I'm quite unhappy about that.
                        \_ Maybe you should vote for Democratic congressmen
                           next time then.
                           \_ No they went along with it too. Buchanan
                              should run. I'd vote (and have voted) for
                              him. He'd do the right thing.
                              \_ I feel sorry for you.  Thanks for letting
                                 us know though.
           (3) Prevented trade protectionism from rearing its ugly head.
               \_ Sold out American jobs to cheap far east slave labor.
                  \_ (3.5) Reduced unemployment to lowest level in decades.
                     \_ Unempolyment was reduced because companies needed
                        workers in order to expand and increase profitability.
                        They were able to expand because of the tax breaks
                        and reduced regulation enacted by Congress not
                        because of anything that Clinton did.
                        Clinton can be given minor credit for not screwing
                        it up.
                        \_ You think M$, Dell, Cisco, Motorola and Sun can
                           expand during a trade war with Europe and Asia?
           (4) Reduced crime all across America.
               \_ While breaking countless laws.
                  \_ The only law breaker is Ronald Reagan during the
                     Iran-Contra affair.
                        \_ That Col. North, not RWR, get your facts
                           \_ Senator Bob Packwood: "I can't remember."
                              Ronald Reagan: "I can't remember."
                     \_ And Al Gore with his illegal arms deals hidden
                        from congress.
           (5) Improved race relations.
               \_ Didn't the LA Riots happen under his watch.
                  \_ Sure.  April 1992, right after 12 years of Republican
                     \_ Bush was president in 4/92.
                        \_ There you go.  I stand corrected.
           (6) Trashing Milosevic and the Serbian nationalist butchers.
        \_ (1) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
           (2) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
           (3) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
           (4) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
           (5) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
           (6) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
           (7) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
           (8) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
           (9) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
          (11) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
          (12) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
          (13) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
          (14) Hey! I defeated Saddam Hussein.
          (15) MTBE
               \_ Putting American soliders in danger to divert
                  attention from his crimes.
                  \_ Defeated the biggest threat to Western Civilization
                     since the fall of the USSR with zero combat losses.
                     \_ Butted in where he had no business being.
                        \_ Another nice little democracy created as
                           a result of actions of President Clinton.
           (7) Spanked Saddam Hussein whenever he tried to be naughty.
               \_ see (6)
                  \_ If that's what you think, you should blame Bush
                     Sr. for not finishing the war.
                     \_ I do.
           (8) Turned budget deficits into budget surpluses.
               \_ No. Please see yesterday's refutation of this.
                  The Republican congress is solely responsible
                  for this.
                  \_ Nope.  Bill gets credit for it.
                     \_ Prove it. The numbers say otherwise.
                        \_ Your numbers only show a corelation between
                           a Clinton/Republican Congress combination and
                           a healthy budget.
                           \_ No, Clinton's true nature is displayed
                              in his first two terms. Also the growth
                              was limited in the first two years where
                              he fought congress. When congress prevail
                              despite Clinton, America was prosperous.
                              Clinton didn't do anything except know
                              when not to screw up a working formula.
                              \_ The "numbers" for which you are so
                                 proud of has been reduced to just
                                 an opinion / interpretation.
                                 Me?  My opinion is that a divided
                                 presidency/congress is good for the
                                 budget.  A Republican presidency
                                 and congress results in
           (9) Reduced tension in the Korean peninsula.
               \_ Yeah, now that N Korea has nukes.
                  \_ Are you that dumb?
                     \_ Are you?
                        \_ Clinton stopped N Korea from continuing
                           with its nuclear bomb program.
                           \_ No. He gave it enough time to cover it
                              up. They are still as deadly as ever.
          (10) Promoted the development of the Internet.
               \_ No. Unless you count increased traffic from the
                  White House to "adult-content" sites.
          (11) Good effort at attempting to solve the Northern Ireland
               \_ Attempting to solve? The Catholics and the Protestant
                  got together and promised to stop killing each other.
                  (The IRA still hasn't lived up to its part). Clinton
                  didn't do jack, except make things worse.
                  \_ How did Clinton "make things worse"?
          (12) Good effort at attempting to solve the Palestine problem.
               \_ Yeah. The killing of Israeli soldiers by Palestinian
                  mobs quite a good effort at peace.
                  \_ So what do you suggest?  Kill all the Palestinians?
                     \_ Let the Israelis and the Palestinian criminals
                        work it out. If you read the WSJ, you will know
                        that the entire Palestine thing is a crock.
                        \_ That's what Clinton is trying to do!
                           \_ Uh, no. Clinton is trying to get Israel to
                              give up everything. Palestine is a crock.
                              The Palestinians are criminal terrorists.
                              Israel should deal with them as such.
          (13) Improved education.
               \_ Sex Ed?
          (14) Improved relations with India.
               \_ Went to India != improved relations. India still doesn't
                  like the US because Presidents like Carter and Clinton
                  want to tell everyone else how to live, and India can't
                  stand that.
                  \_ It's a start.
                     \_ No. Clinton's policy to India is a setback.
                        India wants to be left alone to determine
                        its own destiny, Clinton by refusing to allow
                        this has created problems for future relations.
                        \_ Nope, India wants and needs a good
                           relation to the US.
                           \_ No it doesn't. India has the technical
                              ability to build everything it needs in
                              India. It doesn't rely on any nation for
          (15) Showed that he is a president who cared about ordinary
               Americans unlike Newt I-was-slighted-on-AirForceOne-so-
               paycheck Gingrich.
               \_ Shutting down the government saved millions of dollars.
                  It was a good move. The American people did not suffer
                  because of Newt. The Contract With America was a huge
                  \_ What the heck is "Contract With America"?
                     \_ It was a 10+ point plan for revitalizing and
                        rescuing America from the Clinton vision. It
          (16) Bash up Big Tobacco, proving that they lied to Congress and
               the American people about the harmful effects of smoking.
               \_ Hi, I'm a poor idiot who never knew that smoking was
                  bad for me eventhough the carton said that it was
                  harmful to my health. Yeah, only the democrats would
                  pursue this.
                  \_ Get a clue.  That's not the problem.
                     \_ What's the damn problem. If some bone head wants
                        to smoke, let him.
          (17) Stopped Microsoft from continuing to use its monopolistic
               powers to bully other people.
               \_ No. A federal judge (Republican, Reagan Appointee) did
                  \_ Thank goodness he did, but the prosecution is the
                     US government, headed by Clinton.
                     \_ The procesutions case was pretty damn weak. The
                        judge made a big leap in writing his verdict.
          (18) Reduced the number of people on welfare.
               \_ The got jobs. The only way that the got them jobs is
                  if the federal gov. hired them; some perhaps, but not
                  most. The jobs were created by a strong economy which
                  came about because of tax cuts from a Republican
                  congress. Supply Side Economics. It works.
                  \_ He reduced the number of people ELIGIBLE for welfare,
                     so THEN they got off their lazy asses and got jobs.
                  \_ Garbage!  The strong economy is due to
                     productivity growth.
                     \_ The economy is due to business expansion and
                        revenue increases. These are due to businesses
                        having greater capital to work with and fewer
                        limitations. These are due to Congress.
                        \_ All the economists agree that high growth
                           without inflation only happens with
                           productivity growth.
        \_ You both have condom lubricant for brains.

        What will Bush Sr. be remembered for?

        \_ For chipping away at the rule of law.  Not much else.
        \_ He kept the Internet tax-free and uncensored.  He ordered the
           removal of built-in error in GPS systems.  He helped initiate the
           break-up of Microsoft and the beginning of the fall of tobbacco
           companies.  -tom
           \_ The internet is tax-free because of the senate. Specifically
              bills co-sponsored by Sen. McCain (R-Az). Uncensored, well
              that's good and bad, not really that important. Breaking up
              M$ is good, but the actual legal action was taken by a
              Reagan appointee. The anti-tobacco bs was completely wrong.
              Its like the prohibition, and we all know how effective that
              Clinton will be remembered for the failure in Haiti, the
              failure of the camp david accords, the death of 17 sailors
              on the USS Cole, the death of dozens of US citizens in
              \_ err?? Are you that wasn't terrorist's work? If you
                 want to blame a defense embarassment, don't forget Somalia
                 Sure Bush sent them, but it was Clinton appointee Aspin
                 who denied them armor.
                 \_ Okay, the Somalia debacle is one more thing that
                    Clinton will be remembered for.
              embassy bombings, the sell out of our national security to
              the chinese, the weakening of our national defense, a total
              and utter disregard for the constitution and the law, and
              perhaps most appropriately, he will be remembered for getting
              a "Lewinsky".
              The sad part is that compared to Bush and Gore, Clinton looks
              pretty good. I guess he understood (to some degree) the role
              of the president, which is not to wield power, but rather to
              draw attention from it through acts of finely judge outrage
              (to paraphrase Douglas Adams).
2000/11/10-11 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19713 Activity:nil
11/10   http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111000d.shtml
        Non-citizens voting?  How can this be?
2000/11/10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19707 Activity:high
11/9    Why is everyone so excited about this election. People at work
        people on the motd, people on wall.log? I don't think my "guy"
        will win, and I think the other "guy" is that good, but it just
        doesn't seem like it matters all that much.
        \_ Then *please* don't vote next time.  Only people who care should be
           voting.  The rest of you, *please* stay home and watch sitcoms.
           \_ I voted, I'm unhappy that the results are not clear, but
              its not a big deal. Life goes on. Its not like the guy
              who wins is going to be king for life.
        \_ I picture George "Dubya" Bush as President.  It strikes fear
           into my heart.
              \_ NO!  we can't let the forces of evil win yet again.
                 ( i still wish nader had won though)
                 \_ You are opposed to a Gore victory as well. WOW!
                    I though I was the only one.
           \_ I picture him as President and its not awe inspiring.
              I picutre Gore and its a little depressing, but still
              it doesn't seem to matter a whole lot. In fact Clinton
              looks a lot more appealing than any of the guys that
              were running this time. I guess thats pretty sorry
                      \_ Perjury. Murder. Treason.
              since Clinton is one of the worst presidents we have
              ever had.
                \_ Clinton is my hero!
                   \_ You need higher standards.
                \_ so what exactly did he do to make him the worst?
                   come on name something so henious he did.
                   \_ Rape.  Treason.  Anything else needed?
                      \_ Perjury. Murder. Treason. nut kicking.
                        \_ The only rapist is Republican senator
                           Bob Packwood.
                                \- the only murderer is Democratic Senator
                                Edward Kennedy.
                                \_ That wasn't murder.  Poor Edward was drunk
                                   at the time and uhm... ok nevermind.
                                   \_ Guess he was a little unluckier than
                                      Bush Jr. when DUI.
                                      \_ No, he had better connections and
                                         a more "understanding" father.
           \_ "Read my lips. No more abortion!"
              \_ So?
        \_ Wouldn't it be funny if the Speaker of the House had to
           take over in January? What would we call him? iPresident?
           \_ We'd call him President Hastert.
              \_ It's all about Jessie the Body Ventura.
                 \_ So I wonder who Jessie would be "stealing votes from" if
                    he'd launched a 50 state campaign?  Just a random though.
                 \_ Ventura versus Hillary in 2004. You heard it here
2000/11/9-10 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19703 Activity:high
11/9    Is Bush better for stock market? Republicans give tax cuts and
        better business incentives, while Gore will tax us to death.
        But then the gridlock will allow the markets to run more freely.
        So which is best for the stock market?
        \_ Well, I can tell you this much: when Gore's people announced that
           they were going to demand a hand recount of some/all of Florida,
           the market tanked 60 seconds later....  The market just wants a
           stable government.  The rest is BS.
        \_ Republican's traditionally increase federal outlays - receipt
           difference. Just look at the numbers on the annual budget
           reports published by the government (you can figure out the
           presidents that go along with them). As a result, Republicans
           increase the incentives to invest in government bonds rather
           than the stock market. If history repeats itself, Gore would
           be healthier to the stock market than Bush.
           \_ quick errata: In the past the the (outlays -
              receipts) difference tends to increase under Republican
              administrations and decrease under Democratic ones.
        \_ Bush is better, neither is ideal.
           \_ BUSH == inflation, unemployment
              \_ That statement evaluates to FALSE
                 \_ True if he presidess like the sr bush.
                    \_ Not true. 1992 was a small correction. There is
                       always a correction when we switch from a wartime
                       economy to a peacetime economy. The people just
                       couldn't see that.
                       \_ that applies to clinton as well.  he only looked
                       good as a president b/c of the sudden explosion in the
                       internet economy, he just happened to around when it
                       really took off, as predicted before '94.
                    \_ I'd like to hear exactly what policies Clinton enacted
                       that brought about prosperity, other than keeping
                       Greenspan, a Republican appointee, in office.
                       \_ The president is the gatekeeper to what spending
                          bills get passed or not. During Clinton's term,
                          the annual deficit reduced each year to help
                          drive down interest rates on federally issued bonds
                          and increase market capitalization of the stock
                          market. It was the complete opposite during the
                          Bush and Reagan years. There were also several
                          telecommunications bills but those were bipartisan.
                          \_ This is nice.  What bills?  Please name them.
                          \_ BS. Clinton only vetoed bills that he felt
                             went too far in preserving the freedoms that
                             the founding fathers gave us. The republicans
                             in congress and the Alan Greenspan kept
                             Clinton and the Democrats in check. Besides
                             Clinton was too busy getting it on.
                             \_ Nice try. But if you want to sound more
                                intelligent than a little child, you're
                                going to have to do much better than shoot
                                off the hips generalizations like that.
                                Numbers: In 1994 corporate income tax to
                                the federal government totalled $140
                                billion compared to $184 billion today.
                                Given inflation and a dramatic increase
                                in economic activity in the last decade,
                                that's not much of an increase (in fact
                                I would hazard to say it may have gone
                                down). I'd have to do more research but
                                at least I went to the trouble of getting
                                REAL information unlike you. Just because
                                you're too damn lazy, I'll post the damn
                                URL for you.
                                \_ And Clinton gets credit for this
                                   \_ You cannot approve federal outlays
                                      without the president's signature
                                      or an overriding majority. Much of
                                      it's probably a mutual comprimise
                                      between Democrats and Republicans
                                      but you can't blaim Clinton for
                                      being a "tax and spend commie".
                                      Federal outlays decreased during
                                      his time.
        Federal outlays increased while _/
        congress was friendly to Clinton.
        Federal outlays decreased because
        of congressional restraint, not

        In the years 1994 to 1995 (before the Republican congress was
        elected) spending rose from $1.51 T to $1.79 T, while revenues
        increased from $1.38 T to $1.48 T. As you can see the spending
        deltas rose significantly under Clinton's watchful eye.  The
        spending delta was much worse in Clintons' first two terms (see
        the chart in [1]). (Chart [1] is quite interesting, as things
        were *much* worse under Clinton's watch than under any one else).

        Part of the problem was Clintons' tax increase which reduced
        tax revenues between $60 B and $79 B in his first two years in
        office. This coupled with increased spending (on the order of
        1000 spending bills a year) lead to the deep deficit shown in
        [1]. (See [2] for more information).

        The statement above about stock capitalization is completely
        wrong. Stock capitalization increased because of increased
        individual investment in the stock market. Increased individual
        investement was caused primarily by the tax cut enacted by
        congress in 1997. The increased individual investment lead to
        increased individual income which resulted in the largest
        increase in federal revenues, from $543 B (1994) to $1.45 T (1999).
        As pointed out above corporate tax revenuse did not increase
        nearly as much. It sill resulted in a inflation adujsted (based
        on the chart in [3]) increase of about $35 B.

        These increased revenues combined with steady federal spending
        ($ 1.75 T in 1999 which is less than $ 1.79 T in 1995 even before
        inflation adj) resulted in the reduction in the deficit. Steady
        spending was due in no small part to the reduction in spending
        bills passed by congress (around 300 per year under Republicans).
        Clinto did nothing to reduce the number or content of the spending
        bills; occaisionally he did not sign a given bill, but that just
        saved more money.

        The statement that the lower deficit lead to lower interest rates
        is also wrong. Lower interest rates were enacted by the Fed to
        keep inflation/deflation in check (which might have been
        caused by the extra capital generated by the tax cuts). The lower
        deficit was caused by rather than causing lower interest rates.

        [1] http://policy.house.gov/documents/leadership/socsecraid.htm
        [2] <DEAD>www.ncpa.org/pd/monthly/pd496f.html<DEAD>
        [3] http://fintrend.com/ftf/html/1990sI.html
        \_ You've used the "F" word!  Don't bring _F_acts into this!  It's
           unfair to the Clinton/Gore crowd!
           \_ I was asked. My analysis could be wrong, and I gladly invite
              someone to point it out.
              \_ My work is never done. -someone
2000/10/4 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:19405 Activity:moderate
10/03   http://www.bikini.com/slideshows/missteenusa.html
        \_ Hmm, all of them have slim waists, but none of them seem to have
           nice chests except maybe Miss South Carolina.
          \_ you fucking idiot, they all have gorgeous bodies
             \_ But I personally perfer D- or DD- cups.  E- is too big though.
                \_ I prefer double DD's one in each hand. -Bill Clinton
                   \_ Who'd prefer only in one hand?  You like woman with only
                      one boob?
                   \_ What size is Monica?
                \_ I want dem titties with big ol' strech marks!  Cos Dat's
2000/8/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Academia/StanfUrd] UID:18904 Activity:moderate
8/6     Can someone settle an argument for me: what is Chelsea
        Clinton's college major? Proof would be nice... best I
        can get out of the search engines is "pre-med"...
        \_ http://www.usaweekend.com/99_issues/991205/991205whosnews.html
           says stuff about Stanford's concentration system - danh
        \_ The concentration looks like a "minor" of sorts...
           people still have majors according to the Stanford
           web site. She still has to chose...
           Doesn't anybody have a friend at Stanford that they
           can ask?
        \_ Does it matter?  She doesn't attend classes and gets straight
           A's.  Think about it.
        \_ does she let foreign dignataries 3x her age put their cocks
           in between her warm, wet and willing labia?  Maybe her professors?
           maybe she turns tricks?
                \_ how do you know that her pussy is warm and wet?  Maybe
                   she's a frigid bitch like her mom.
                   \_ i hope not. my boss said he'd double my salary if
                     i did her up the ass.
        \_ all i know is that she's looking more and more like her mother.
2000/4/22-24 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:18084 Activity:high
4/22    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/i/AP-Cuban-Boy-Reconstruct.html

        Dalrymple scooped up Elian and retreated into a closet. ``Que esta
        pasando?'' Elian asked again. Agents banged on the bedroom door and
        entered. One Border Patrol agent, wearing goggles and a helmet,
        raised a rifle toward the two. His finger was not on the trigger.

        Dalrymple raised his elbow in defense. The agent grabbed Elian and
        took him. ``Bingo! Bingo!'' yelled another agent, signaling the
        mission's success.
      \_ Really fucking nice.  So much for due process, the law, precident,
         and justice.  Goodbye America, hello Amerika.
         \_ Really fucking nice indeed. I have just gained a lot more
            respect for our government than I had in a long time. Due
            process has passed. Custody has been decided a long time ago.
            They were holding the kid illegally and the father deserved
            to have his son back. Here's to a country that (on this
            one rare occasion) stood up for its principles, upheld its
            laws, in the face of a shitload of whining that could've
            pushed a lot of politicians the other way (and did)
            \_ A Florida Family Court judge decided the case waaay back
               when in favor of the Florida family but that didn't suit the
               Clintons, Reno, or the INS, so they decided to once again
               ignore the rule of law the rest of us have to follow and
               kidnapped the child from his legally appointed guardians.
               Not only did Reno's storm troopers not have a warrant to
               enter private property and kidnap a child, when they applied
               for a warrant to do so, it was *denied*.  I've just lost the
               last few shreds of respect I had for our government.  I
               never had respect for people unable to tell the truth from
               the spoon fed media noise, though.  Think!
                \_ Actually, they had a warrent...
            \_ BULLSHIT!  You're fucking lying or stupid.  Custody _had_
               been decided and it was given to THE FAMILY IN FLORIDA!
               I'm so sick of you lying, stinking, piece of shit, fact
               inventing leftist fucks!  YOU ARE LYING!
              \_ Sure, the law's, the law's, the law.  Let's not forget
                 that the mother and father had separated, and that the
                 mother's dying action was bringing her infant son to
                 America, away from the hated despot Castro.  Although
                 they will be soundly crushed in the courts, the Cuban
                 American community and some of the boy's relatives feel
                 that they have undertaken a holy mission to carry out the
                 mother's last wish to secure a better life for her child.
                 Unfortunately the technicality is that the separation was
               not too long ago, and the father seems like a reasonable
               guy, so he is thusly the automatic guardian.
               \_ Yeah, Castro's a Pinko Commie Bastard.  Communists will
                  eat your children, rape yermom, and hax0r your computers.
                  Have you ever actually seen or read a non-biased (i.e.
                  something not produced by an American media agency)
                  on what life in Cuba is actually like? -dans
                  \_ Don't forget the "re-education building" already built
                     for the boy in Cuba where he'll stay for several months
                     before the father sees him again.
                  \_ Actually, dans, you can ask any of the recent or
                     older Cuban expatriates.  Talking to a lot of them
                     is better than reading questionably unbiased material.
                     Also, notice how I didn't say anything about Cuba
                     being Communist?  In any case, your humor is a little
                     off base.
                     \_ Oh, yeah, Cuban expatriates are a nice, unbiased
                        source.  Of course they're not going to have anything
                        good to say.  They left.  They're not particularly
                        representative of the portion of the Cuban
                        population that's still there. -dans
      \_ Give 'em all guns, put 'em on boats, send 'em back to Cuba.  Only
         this time around, don't forget the goddamm air support.  -John
              \_ Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
2000/3/18-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:17796 Activity:insanely high
3/17    Taiwan election results in.  So far, no missiles are firing.
        Let's hope it stays that way.

THREAD SUMMARY: "Asian cultures have plagued our fragile planet for many
        centuries. They should all be eliminated as soon as possible."
        \_ Let the ethnic cleansing in Taiwan begin.
        \_ It takes a few minutes to warm up the missiles, hit the button,
           fly over the water and get Wolf Blitzer out of bed to report on it.
        \_ We (the US) should just tell those STINKING PIG-SUCKING RED COMMIE
           CHINESE BASTARD MOFOS in BEJING that if they don't butt out of
           Taiwan's democracy, we will bomb them into the stone age. As I
           are trying to cosy up with thier kind in RED CHINA at the cost
           see it the whole problem is Clinton-Gore are COMMIES and they
           are trying to cozy up with thier kind in RED CHINA at the cost
           brainwashed by that COMMIE scumback JFK. And the reason that we
           of the good decent hardworking liberty loving people of Taiwan.
           In some ways you can hardly blame Clinton, after all he was
           brainwashed by that COMMIE scumbag JFK. And the reason that we
           have all of these problems anyway is because Truman didn't
           let MacAurthur take on RED CHINA in the 50s.
           \_ I thought the real reason is that Eisenhower didn't let Patten
              take on USSR to wipe out communisum altogether right after
              Germany surrendered in WWII.  -- yuen
              \_ HAHAHAHHAHAHA.  Take on USSR?  Silly child, don't fight a
                 land war in Russia.
                 \_ That's the impression I got from a movie.  Yeah, Napoleon
                    lost a land war in Russia too.  -- yuen
                 \_ Why not?  - Mongolian, descendant of Subedai
                 \_ Why not?  - WWI Kaiser
           \_ Dumbass, the USSR would have declared war if the U.S. attacked
                      Russia is no longer commie.  -- yuen
              China. It would have been a nuclear war that the U.S. would
              have "won" solely cuz the U.S. had more nukes at the time
              But the world would only now be emerging from the nuclear
              holocaust that follows.
                \_ Bullshit.  China and USSR were not allies.  Not even close.
                   Why do you think both have huge numbers of men on both
                   sides of their mutual border?  Partying?  Duh.
                   \_ If they are not allies, why did USSR send all those
                      technical advisers to commie China?
                   \_ Yes, but Russia will side with China to take advantage
                      of the situation if US goes to war with Chian, even
                      though Russia is no longer commie.  -- yuen
                      \_ Russia is neither more nor less commie than it was
                         the last 75 years.  Russia has and always had a
                         criminal, dictatorial government.  It doesn't
                         matter what the government calls itself.
        \_ As a Chinese-American, I have to say, those Chinese in the
        People's Republic are a bunch of fucking punks.  Agreed...
        We should have done more to crush Mao at the very beginning.
        But what can be said...it wasn't in the U.S. interests to bother
        with it at the time.
           \_ Traitor. The U.S. has this unfounded fear that China wants
              to challenge the U.S. - that's not true. They aren't that
              stupid, but if you believe those dumbass Republikans
              China is going to be next evil threat then stop buying
              Made in China stuff - almost all of it helps the PLA get
              stronger. It's a fit of irony that you really can't.
              It's further irony that everyone is ignorant about
              the self-determination of a population when they claim
              to be from a country who extols the values of democracy.
              The Chinese are not Americans, whether through ignorance
              or not, they are much mroe comfortable with auhtoritarian
              governments than you are.Leave them be.
                \_ You mean the unfounded fear based in part on various top
                   level Chinese government officials stating in public that
                   war with the US is inevitable?  Chinese like being slaves?
                   That includes the democratic Taiwanese?  We should just
                   stand around with a thumb up our collective butt while the
                   communists invade Taiwan because they're "much mroe
                   comfortable with auhtoritarian governments" than non-Chinese?
                   That has got to be one of the fucking dumbest things on the
                   motd all week.  I won't even go into the racism thing beyond
                   the simple mention of the obvious.
        \_ The future is always in our interests today.  Vision.
        \_ Well, Mao kicked our ass at the very outset.
           See Korea, North & South
           \_ as a Korean, I'd have to say "Fuck Mao!"
           \_ No, we didn't fight the real war we could have.  It was politcal
              stupidity, not military inability.  Pick up a book sometime.
              \_ Politics is part of waging war.  Pick up a book sometime.
                 \_ Twist in the wind, baby.  Keep twisting those words.  One
                    day you'll meet someone dumb enough to believe you.
              \_ We can win the Korean war.  We can crush Mao by nuking
                 China.  However there is no way we can liberate China
                 from Mao for KMT at that time.  The support for CCP is
                 too high at that point in time, and it would be like
                 10 Vietnams.
                 \_ Actually when Chiang had the advantage in 1947,
                  Stilwell and Marshall pressured Chiang to compromise
                  with Mao, giving the Communists much needed time to
                  build up their forces. Had Chiang kept pressing at
                  that time, who knows.
                 \_ Didn't need to free China from Mao but still could have
                    had a full and complete military victory in Korea.
                    \_ Not if the Ruskies get dragged in.
                        \_ Or space aliens from the planet Nemik, but that's
                           about equally likely.
                           \_ Why is it not likely?  Russia and Commie
                              China are on good terms then, and Russia
                              is an ally of North Korea too.  It would
                              be a huge loss of credibility for the
                              Ruskies if they let their two running
                              dogs be defeated.
                                \_ Russia & China allies? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA!!!
                                   Don't be a ditzoid.  Only in the last 3-6
                                   months have they even begun to start to
                                   pretend to not hate each other.  No one was
                                   launching nukes over Korea.  That's the
                                   second dumbest thing on the motd all week.
                                   \_ Really?  I thought MacArthur wanted to
                                      do just that (launching nukes).  You can
                                      laugh as hard as you want, but it would
                                      not cover up your ignorance.
                                        \_ He wanted to nuke the Chinese.  The
                                           Russians hated the Chinese and still
                                           do.  Why exactly would the Russians
                                           risk total destruction because we
                                           nuked their hated neighbor?  You are
                                           the ignorant one.  The idea that the
                                           Russians would risk everything to
                                           help their post-nuked enemy is so
                                           wildly ridiculous that I feel you
                                           must be trolling me.  -been trolled
                                           \_ Very simple, if the Russians
                                              let North Korean fall, and then
                                              let Red China fall, they may as
                                              well give up communism and
                                              disassemble the USSR there and
                                              then, rather then 50 years
                                              later.  It's called
                                              the USSR version of the dominoes
                                              \_ You made this up.  They don't
                                                 have their own version of the
                                                 domino theory.  Nice try
                                                 \_ They may not have a name
                                        for the theory, but it remains that
                                        they understood that to let North
                                        Korea and Commie China fall, they
                                        may as well disassemble the USSR
                                        and give up communism.  As much as
                                        they distrust Mao, a US supported
                                        Chiang-Kai-Shek China sharing
                                        the world's longest border with
                                        them would be much more disastrous
                                        for them.  You need to learn how
                                        to think from your adversary's point
                                        of view.  It's the first step out
                                        of idiotdom.
        \_ Don't fight a land war in Asia.
                \_ That's what nukes are for.
        \_ Don't pull out a gun unless you intend to shoot someone.
           Don't point a gun at someone unless you intend to kill them.
           If you dont have the resolve, then someone is going to
           wrestle that gun away from you, shove it up your ass and
           demonstrate the correct result.
           \_ USA! USA! USA!
              \_ corporate stooge.
                 \_ Huh?
              \_ It's that kind of blind USA chanting that gets this
                 country into wars it starts but cant finish.
                 \_ If Hanoi Jane and the rest of her Berkeley spawned ilk were
                    put in chains and electric chairs where all traitors
                    belong, it'd be less of a problem.
        \_  The problem with the U.S. fighting wars is that if one examines
            the historical record, public sentiment for wars that "drag out"
            too long are highly unpopular.  If Washington hadn't gotten
            lucky that one winter, the U.S. wouldn't exist because people
            were about to lay down their guns and quit.  Anti-war feelings
            were even strong in a popular war such as WWII.  And Vietnam...
            Vietnam was a war of attrition that required huge numbers of
            troops to fight a land campaign...and although the U.S. and
            South Vietnamese scored an overwhelming victory in the Tet
            offensive, the U.S. got fucked politically b/c to Americans,
            it never seemed that the war was going to end, even though
            we might've scored a military "victory" in a few years time.
            When the chips are down, Americans are only in as long as
            it looks like we're winning.
            \_ Uhm, I think the draft (forcing people to go and fight in a war
               against their will) had more to do with the unpopularity of the
               war than its perceived duration.  Also, you speak of lengthy
               wars being unpopular with Americans as though only Americans
               experience this, which is at best an inaccurate generalization.
            \_ Washington?  The "people were about to lay down their guns and
               quit" is not the public.  What the fuck are you talking about?
               This is a total lie.  The problem GW had is that his army was
               too small, inexperienced, ill equipped, and underfed to fight a
               real war with the local school yard bully much less a foreign
               super power.  There were no Clintonesque opinion polls being
               taken on an hourly basis or focus groups being used to determine
               if the fight should go on.  WWII?  Anti-war?  Are you fucking
               insane?  Have you ever met _anyone_ alive during that time in
               this country who wasn't a foreign agent?  Vietnam?  Sure, go
               ask Traitor Hanoi Jane why Americans were spitting on their own
               at the airports.
            \_ I think you're getting us confused with the French.
               USA is #1!  USA! USA! USA!
            \_ It's a matter of acceptable losses. If the PRC is willing
                to suffer any number of casualties to take Taiwan,
                and the USA isn't, then quite simply, the PRC will win.
                \_ 2 mil casualties suffered on the PRC side in Korean War
                   vs the 60K on the U.S. I think you can safely say they
                   are very much willing.
                \_ Win what?  Taiwan?  Doubt they can take Taiwan without us
                   directly interfering.  They lack the logistical support
                   required to move half a million+ men over the straight and
                   then to keep them supplied.  The only thing the PRC can do
                   to the US is nuke a few west coast cities (SF comes to mind
                   as a fantastic target).  The response with be to glass in
                   their entire population.  There won't be a PRC or anything
                   resembling civilization after that and they know it.  There
                   is *nothing* the PRC can do but rattle their sabers.
                   \_ The PRC has the ability to both move and supply the
                      troops necessary to conquer Taiwan. They do not have
                      the ability to do so in the face of the US Navy. So
                      the question is: will the US commit an act of war
                      against China in order to keep Taiwan free? It is
                      not a military question, as Taiwan is fully capable
                      of killing the few soldiers that would make it past
                      the Navy. Is it worth it to make our allies in Asia
                      feel comfortable and alienate the largest emerging
                      market in the world? Of course, China is thinking the
                      same thing, knowing that the attack if pointless if
                      we intervene. So it is in the US's best interest to
                      make it seem that we will, even though I believe that
                      Clinton would back down if pushed to the wall.
                      \_ Clinton will back down because he's a traitor and the
                         Chinese have already bought him off.  This has nothing
                         to with the will of the american people.  This is all
                         about Clinton's treason against this nation.
            \_ My point exactly...unless the U.S. is willing to go toe to toe
               with a country that has this fucking psycho "we will
               win at all costs" mentality, the U.S. will back down.
                \_ Clinton will back down because he's a traitor and a Chinese
                   stooge and his lack act of official cowardess and treason
                   will be to abandon Taiwan.
        \_ Three things:
           paper -
                   Without which, you would be going blind hand copying
                   texts on bulky and unwielding papyrus, performing self-
                   flagellation when you made an error, in a damp, dark
                   monastery.  That is, if you are part of the upper-class
                   intelligentsia.  If you are a poor illiterate serf ...
           gunpowder -
                   Without which, the civilized world will still be plagued
                   by cycles of nomadic expansions, with no answer for the
                   nomad's superiority in horsemanship and archery.
           compass -
                   Without which, America will still be populated by Indians,
                   which depending on one's point of view, may be a good or
                   bad thing.
           And these ungrateful pigs want to nuke us after exploiting and
           colonizing us for centuries!
        \_ Real summary: China has the military might to wear down and take
           over Taiwan if the US doesn't intercede.  Clinton, the traitor
           that he is, will sacrifice Taiwan to the Chinese for the sake of
           the children rather than pull a Kennedy/Cuban Missile Crisis on
           them and force them to back down.  Good bye democracy in Taiwan.
           Good bye US credibility to our allies anywhere in the world. Hello
           to the rest of the world taking advantage of the new depths of US
           weakness and inability to protect our allies or be taken seriously
           on anything for many years to come.  I'm voting for Bush, not
           because I'm a (R).  I'm not.  But because Gore is already dirtied
           with foreign money, most of it Chinese and will lead to 8 more
           years of treason in the Whitehouse.  I couldn't care less about
           the President fucking some pig girl in the Oval Office but
           Clinton/Gore's foreign policy, bought off with foreign money,
           is treasonous.  (The Russians have nothing to do with this thread
           and were a side issue full of mis-stated history and conjecture).
           \_ MOTHER RUSSIA WILL RULE YOU ALL!!@@@~!!!
           \_ Clinton is my hero!  The question is:  Are you better off
              now than you were 8 years ago?  Who told you Clinton will
              back down if commie China tries to bully Taiwan?  Clinton
              will give the commies a swift kick in the butt.  Who
              ordered the carrier battlegroup to sail close to Taiwan's
              shores and scare the red China bully when they started
              firing missiles into the sea?  Clinton is better than
              Bush (the father) when it comes to China.
              \_ I'm better of today than 8 yrs ago, but not because
                 of that COMMIE SOB Clinton. It was Reagan who restored
                 America's greatness and his policies are the ones that
                 are directly responsible for our prosperity. Clinton
                 fortunately was more interested in screwing around with
                 unattractive women than the economy and let Greenspan (a
                 Reagan appointee) keep the Reagan boom going. If it comes
                 to a armed Taiwan-RED CHINA conflict, Clinton will side
                 with his friends the RED CHINESE COMMIE SCUMSUCKERS and
                 will look the other way while democracy is stopped out.
                 We need a real KICK-ASS President like John McCain rather
                 than a ASS-SUCKER president like Clinton. Washington,
                 Lincoln, TR and Reagan would have dealt with the RED CHINESE
                 rather than being bought out by them like Clinton-Bore.
                 \_ Yeah, yeah, yeah.  The only thing Reagonomics did was
                    that even in today's good economy and ample tax
                    revenues, 25% of the federal budget goes into servicing
                    the national debt.  I sure would prefer to have that 25%
                    in my bank account instead.
2000/1/13-17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:17230 Activity:moderate
1/13    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2000/01/13/drugs/index.html
        The government takes your tax money and uses it to bribe tv
        networks to weave it's propaganda message into programming.
        \_ You needed salon to tell you this?
        \_ You know what really gets me: the government-sponsored ads on
           billboards and buses with really obvious messages, like "Sex with
           a minor is a crime if you're not a minor", or "Being a parent means
           that you have to occasionally pay attention to your children" (both
           obviously paraphrased).  I don't know what's worse: the fact that
           they're spending *my* fucking tax dollars on shit like this, or the
           fact that there are presumably people out there who *need* to be
           told these things.  Are these ads sponored by the Bureau of
           "Like, Duh"?
            \_ Even if you are a minor, sex with a minor is illegal.
            \_ If some people actually pay attention to them, you are getting
               value for your tax dollar. reduction in crime, means
               less money needed for crime.
               Well, okay, it actually means the fixed amount of money put
               into police departments gets to work its way down to some of
               the other areas that otherewise wouldn't get touched.
               Like for example when some schmuck merchant claims your
               stuff he is working on has been "stolen", when he just hocked
               it somewhere to pay off his own debt, and the local blues
               say "we're not even going to bother investigating this",
               even though this affected multiple people. No, I'm not
               bitter or anything.
               \_ Could you ramble more. Please?
                  \_ hmm.  would you like me to ramble on about my
                     personal feelings about OrCAD for your amusement?
                                -the guy who hates OrCAD, who rambled
                                 about it before
                \_ No it isn't.  Find one case where a kid was successfully
                   prosecuted in CA for having sex with another minor in the
                   last 100 years.
                   \_ It's very hard to prosecute, but still illegal.
                        \_ So is sticking your bare feet out a window in
                           Kentucky but they don't prosecute that either. BFD.
                  \_ No, more like it is legal to have sex with someone
                     that is within 3 years of your age no matter what.
                           Sex between same age minors is never prosecuted thus
                           the legal status of the act is nothing but an on
                           paper fantasy.
               \_ So if you're both minors, is this sort of like illegal
                  like consensual sodomy is illegal in some states or
                   \_ I believe there used to be some odd statute whereby
                      in this case, the guy could be prosecuted for statutory
                  17 year-olds trying to cruise junior high schools.
                      rape, but the girl could also be tried for sexual
                      assault.  -John
               \_ Well, hey -- guess they needed that billboard after all!
               \_ Actually, the law is if the couple involved are within two
                  years of age, then they can have sex legally. This covers
                  that strangeness between 17 and 18 year olds, and those
                  hits those 17 year-olds perverts trying to cruise junior
                  high schools. There IS an lower age limit as to when sex
                  is illegal, but I don't recall what it is. 13, I think.
                  \_ the laws vary from state to state. go to vermont. you
                     can legally fuck 15 year olds there.
                     \_ No you can't. Crossing state lines to have sex with
                        a minor is illegal.
                     \_ http://www.ageofconsent.com
            \_ Yeah, but at least an ad is blatant about being propoganda.
2000/1/11 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Reference/Tax] UID:17213 Activity:kinda low
1/10    You can't hide Hillary's crimes.  As soon as she's out of the WH and
        doesn't have my tax dollars to illegally spend on herself it'll all
        come out and then we'll finally get the truth.
        \_ Clinton will have her killed off like the hundreds of others he has.
2000/1/10-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:17199 Activity:high
1/9     What does the flaw on the New York quarter look like that's supposedly
        worth $2000?
        \_ Round, silvery colored, has a president's face on one side.
        \_ The New York quarter isn't out yet, is it?  There were a number of
           Pennsylvania quarters that were minted with the back side rotated
           180 degrees from the way US coins normally are.  (I.e., the front
           and back sides were the same direction, not reversed.)  I've heard
           that the government minted a whole bunch more of those to drive
           down the value.
          \_ It looks like Hillary Clinton.  She's the only flaw in NY right now.
            [You can delete anti Clinton comments all day but you can't hide the
            truth about that lying two bit sack of shit.  But then again, as a
            Hillary follower, censorship is your middle name and a perfactly
            appropriate way to deal with those who tell the truth about your
            lying thieving hero of slime.  Restored.]
        \_ [even longer Troll-bait deleted]
          \_ [Troll-bait deleted]
            \_ Rudolph Guliani is as every bit a lying sack of shit as
               Hillary is.  But Guliani seems to fit the senate norm much
               better than Hillary does (he's a mean spirited asshole) so
               \_ mean-spirited vs. self-righteous.  tough choice.
        \_ [Troll-bait deleted]
               he'll make the better senator
                \_ I never said I liked Rudi.  But at least he isn't a carpet
                   bagger piece of Arkansas white trash.
                   \_ Not everyone from Arkansas is a carpet bagger (and,
                      in fact, carpet baggers were from the NORTH), nor are
                      they by definition white trash.  --sowings
                        \_ The Clintons are, by definition, white trash.
                           Your denial of carpet bagging based on geography
                           and compass pointing leaves me baffled.  The trash
                           is a carpet bagger.  The source and targets have
                           zero to do with it.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:
        \_ That's nice.  I'm glad you can quote a 1913 dictionary entry.  When
           you've joined this century, let everyone know.
           \_ uh, it still is the same century.
           \_ no self-respecting troll would want a bite of that ho.
           \_ What did Hillary lie about?
                \_ TravelGate, FileGate, Rose Law Firm billing records for
                   starters.  Have you been in the U.S. for the last 7 years?
        \_ After HRC gets done with them, the flaw will be her wrinkled ugly
           face smirking at the suckers who voted for her.
1999/12/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, ERROR, uid:16996, category id '18005#4.705' has no name! , ] UID:16996 Activity:low
12/2    WTO: About as unbiased a view as you're likely to see from any media
        outlet.  I don't fully agree with everything said in this article but
        this is the best I've seen:
        \_ http://www.zmag.org/weluser.htm - from your local bleeding
                                             heart liberal
        \_ all that article told me was that the WTO won't get anything done
           because everyone hates each other
                \_ I posted it as an overview for those here here have made it
                   clear they don't know anything about the WTO.
                \-i fyou want good perspective you get it rfom reading multiple
                srcs. if you think you can find an unbiased single src, you are
                deluding yourself. the article didnt say anything stupid but
                it didnt say much interesting stuff either. one this i respect
                about the economist is they have a position and this make
                arguments ... as opposed to pretending to rpesent "objective
                facts". --psb
                \_ I am a big fan of the Economist too.  However, I think
                   they miss-judged and underestimated Clinton.  Also,
                   they miss-judged and underestimated US technology led
                   economy, at least till now.  For that, I would have to
                   say that they are not as good as they used to be.
                \_ I didn't say it was unbiased.  I didn't say it was
                   captivating.  It's exactly what I was looking for: an
                   easy to read description of what the WTO is about without
                   going into fits of PR spew.  It's "reasonably" unbiased.
                \_ The Economist once provided insightful economic and
                   political analysis difficult to find outside of research
                   journals.  However, over the past few years its gone soft,
                   choosing instead to compete with the likes of Time and
                   Newsweek.  It's easy to lose respect for an English owned,
                   U.S. bashing magazine whose lead story
                   for well over the past year has been that the U.S.
                   economy is overheated and going to crash.  Anyways,
                   if they run the story enough times eventually they'll
                   be right.   DOWN WITH THE WTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1999/9/28-30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:16612 Activity:moderate
9/28    http://www.mccain2000.com
        \_ McCain sucks, read ~danh/McCain.txt - danh
           \_ Dan, you're such an idiot.  This is such complete trash.  It
              more than oozes bias.  It bleeds bias.  Anyone who'd vote for
              or against *any* candidate based on this type of drivel doesn't
              deserve the privilege of voting.  You, Sir, are an idiot.
           \_ it was the sort of puff piece you see in the newspapers of
              berkeley communists.   I could do a much more interesting
              one on Gore.  -jor
              \_ the election is already over, dummies.  Now get back to
                 your keyboard.
                 \_ Yes, Dan Quayle is going to be the first successful
                    write-in victory, everyone knows that, but that doesn't
                    save danh from babbling spew.
        \_ Yes mcCain does suck, he wants to pass a law enabling the government
            to ban and/or censor video games it finds offensive.
            Video game programmers have alot to worry.
            All interested parties check out - http://www.gamepac.com
                \_ Maybe, but dan's garbage isn't the basis for a decision.
                   \_ I didn't even read danh's file. I'm intending to go into
                      the video game industry upon graduation. I think
                      all CS or EECS students who enjoyed games like DOOM
                      etc.. should be jumping out of thier seats at the
                      prospect that their future work could be outlawed
                      just because a group of people find it offensive.
                      Basically, its a scary scenario, and I'm actually
                      quite worried.
                        \_ Oh?  My future work is gang style executions in
                           public places.  And you know what?  Those fascist
                           government thugs want to ban my future career! They
                           actually want to make it *illegal*!!!  Would you
                           believe that?!  They must, therefore, be evil.
                  \_  I guess you don't remember the PRMC, do you?
                \_ geez a little touchy aren't you all - danh
                   \_ Stupidity almost makes me touchy.  If you're going to
                      advocate some politcal position, pro or con, at least
                      try to base it on something that isn't such blatantly
                      obvious crap.  Hell, I don't know a thing about McCain,
                      but your babbling piece from your friend was certainly
                      more offensive and intellectually bankrupt and insulting
                      than anything he might be proposing.
1999/9/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:16572 Activity:nil
9/24    I'd like to get a Clinton+Monica mask and costume for Halloween.
        Anyone know where I can get such prop? Thanks.
        \_ Last year they had 'em in the Castro.
1999/5/11 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15789 Activity:insanely high
5/10    Outdated map my ass!
        \_ What is the greatest irony is that the epitome of war criminal
           of the 20th century since Hitler is accusing the U.S. of war
           crimes.  Deliberately killing people is a lot different than
           accidental ones (though both should be condemned).
           - anonymous
           \_ the greater irony is how we vilify so many other people and
              countries, when in fact the world probably hates US the most
              and we don't even care
           \_ I think the BIGGER irony is that when Japanese kill
              100k-300k people in Nanking is considered a war crime,
              yet when US toss atomic bombs upon civilians which kill
              100k-300k people in Japan is perfectly justified (ohh, I
              forgot, it save lives... whose lives again?).
           can't find the URL where I read this.)  Don't you think when an
              Base upon this logic, I conclude that if Serbia use
              air force instead of army do the ethnic cleansing, then
              it will not be considered as crime against humanity.
              \_The atomic bomb saved lots of Chinese, Malay, Vienamese,
                Indian, British, Australian, American, Korean lives.
                It may even have saved some Japanese lives.
                China did not invade Japan.  Japan did attack the US.
              a racist asshole who kills).
                Ideally, US should have demonstrated the atomic bomb
                on an uninhabited island as suggested by the late
                Berkeleyan Glenn Seaborg, among others.  But what do
                you expect?  You expect the Americans to initiate a
                lengthy diplomatic process to invite the Japanese
                militarists to an atomic bomb viewing party, and give
                them a few weeks to make up their minds, while the
                Japanese are killing, raping, torturing people, doing
                medical experiments on human beings, and sinking American
                \_ Actually, the US did just that, but the Japanese govt
                   declined.  But then so did the Soviet Union.  go figure.
           \_ Are you talking about Milosevic or the Chinese Communists?
              I would guess it's the Chinese Communists cause compared
              to Mao, Milosevic, though just as nasty, is still a small fry

              The problem is the Chinese do not believe in Nato's action
              against Yugoslavia, so they don't consider it just an
              accident.  They consider it collateral damage caused by
              an unjust war against Serbia.

              For me, I think the US has to interfere in Kosovo.
              What Milosevic is doing is a slap on the face of the US-led
              west.  If he is allowed a free rein, a huge question mark
              will be place on all the achievements of the 20th century
              against fascism and totalitarians.  Milosevic should be
              put on trial for ethnic cleansing (in short for being
              a racist asshole who kills).  Yes, a racist asshole is
              a racist asshole no matter where you are.
                \_ A huge quesion mark to join Guatemala, Nicaragua,
                Chile, Panama, Granada, Vietnam, ...
                U.S. Corporations DEMAND dictatorships, death squads,
                and genocide.  It's called "STABILITY".

        \_ obviously it's a serious blunder.  imagine what would have
           happened if it was the russian embassy that was targeted.
           the matter must be investigated thoroughly, including the
           possibility of sabotage at lower-level decision makings.
           i predict that in the end, heads will roll.  -- anonymous
        \_ According to a Chinese official, some US official have already
           attended events at that Chinese embessy during the past few years
           after the embessy was moved to its current location.  (Sorry, I
           can't find the URL where I read this.)  Don't you think when a
           US official has a chance to enter a foreign embessy, one of his
           jobs is to scout the building?  And now they still can't even
           get the address right?
                \_ Amazingly enough, the millions of people who can be called
                   "US officials" don't all communicate with each other.  The
                   diplomats who visited the Chinese embassy are not the
                   military leaders who decide what/where to bomb, and
                   probably assumed the multi-trillion dollar defense budget
                   included buying up-to-date maps for the milittary leaders.

        \_ How come that at the same time they have detailed satellite
           photos of ethnic-cleansings, they have outdated targeting maps?!
           \_ Technology can make up for only so much human stupidity.
              One might say that technology can even magnify the impact
              of stupidity. --Jon
        \_ It's a dumb mistake. Dumb mistakes almost always happen
           during war.  There is simply no good reason for US to
           intentionally bomb China's embassy, embarassing itself the
           world over.  Twisted theories about provoking China to start
           a war just doesn't hold well.  If they can cut an Italian
           ski lift cable, they can bomb a Chinese embassy.  By the
           way, dumb mistates are not limited to the US.
           As for China, it should stop fanning nationalistic and anti-
           US sentiments.  That would be another dumb mistake.  After
                   \_ Not that apologies from Clinton really mean much. I
                      doubt that people internationally are taking him
           all the US has already apologized.
        \_ Sorry, you are wrong.  Clinton used the word "regret" instead
           of apology.  Regret can be "I regret not bombing Beijing at the
           same time so that no one will voice out."  Also, verbal regret
           is different from written apology.
                \_ Maybe you should watch/listen to/read the news.  He
                   sent a written apology yesterday.
                   \_ Who in his or her right mind believes a Clintonian
                      apology?  Besides, Beijing wants to relieve the
                      tension on the 10th anniversary of Tienanmen.  The
                      bombing gave them a convenient excuse.  Anyway, now
                      they're finally airing the apologies.  Think anyone
                      will believe Clinton?
                      \_ What do you mean about believing and not believing?
                         It's irrelevant in any case.
                         Clinton is the elected President of the United States.
                         He still is the representative for the United States,
                         and he has apologized.  What more do you want?
                         Lives lost cannot be brought back.  Compensation?
                         Sure.  A dumb mistake should not change US policy
                         on Kosovo.  If they believed they should have
                         intervened in Kosovo before, they should continue
                         to do so.
1999/4/30 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15724 Activity:nil
4/30    http://www.moveon.org/children  Petition to regulate handguns.  This
        organization also mobilized against clinton's impeachment.
1999/4/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15691 Activity:very high
Belgrade bombed. Holpital destroyed. Last time was in '41 by the nazis.
BOMBING MUST STOP! You are all embarrassing assholes! -(fucker)
        \_ We'll stop when the serbs say uncle -jor
        \_ when the serbs stop acting like nazi's, we'll stop.
        \_ It's amazing the see the draft-dodger Clinton ordering
           US soldiers to terrorize others to achieve his personal
           \_ personal goals?  what does clinton gain from this personally?
             \_ when was the last time monica was mentioned in the news?
                \_ Perhaps when Clinton was acquitted, and Monica's 15
                   minutes went "tick-tock".
1999/3/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:15644 Activity:insanely high
3/24    I take it U.S. Russian relationships aren't going to well right now.
        \_ Hey, we had to test those 2 Billion dollar bombers somewhere.
        \_ Doesn't matter. They complain, we withold the food/food aid, they
           shut up.
                \_ and then lob a few nukes to prove they're still important.
        \_ First Iraq, now Yugoslavia.  Maintaining world order, all right!
           But who's going to stop us if someday we start bombing other
           countries for a bad cause?
           \_ someday start? why are we bombing yugoslavia again?
              \_ I thought we're stopping the Serbs from killing Albanians. No?
                 \_ exactly.  there's a pretty systematic killing machine
                    there right now, killing by ethnicity.  for once i
                    am pleased to see that we are doing something about it.
                        \_ When we do something about it, you can be pleased.
                           Air strikes have never changed any government's
                           policy about anything.  Hello?  Iraq?  7+ years?
              \_ Help the Albanian terrorists kill Serbs is more like it.
                \_ Now, now... both sides are in the wrong.  Don't play
                   favorites with history.
           \_ I thought Clinton only bombs other nations when his own ass
              is in trouble and he needs to divert attention.
              \_ Must be that Hillary was going to file for divorce so he
                 had to bomb someone and start a world war to distract the
                 press and public.
              \_ Didn't you see the X-files? Saddam was some schmo they
                 found in Iowa that waves his magic wand whenever they
                 want to distract the public's mind.
              \_ so whys he in trouble now?
                 \_ See? Its working. We dont know why he is in trouble.
                \_ Clinton IS in trouble over China.  That's why we bomb.
                   \_ Sign your name below if you are spying for China
                      \_ me! me!
                      \_ Me too!  -Chinese spy allowed to hire other Chinese
                         spies as my assistants on top secret nuclear projects.
1999/3/4 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15537 Activity:high
3/3     The Lewinsky interview made me cry.
        \_ you must be a girl or a fag
        \_ Lewinsky really let herself go after the affair.  It looked
           like she put on 50 pounds.  And what was the deal with those
           horrendously fake eyebrows and the helmet hairdo?
1999/2/26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15484 Activity:insanely high
2/26    Does anyone even care that Clinton might have raped a woman?
        \_ Does anyone even care the Pat Buchanan raped a kid and is a Nazi?
        \_ Everyone but the brainwashed ultra leftist Clinton supporters.
        \_ As long as the economy is in good shape, Clinton could start
           killing people and no one would care.
           \_ He has been killing Iraqis and Serbs all along.
                \_ Among others.
        \_ Why didn't she press charges? Isn't 21 years a long time? --dim
           \_ She said because she felt guilty, and also she would
              have destroyed her life by going against the then powerful
              Clinton.  Remember, this was 1978.
              \_ doesn't make sense.  After alleged rape, she went
                 to a Clinton fundraiser two weeks later.  Personally,
                 I avoid people who even look at me funny, don't know
                 what I would do if they raped me.
                 \_ Ever been raped?  Get raped and you'll understand.
              \_ And Clinton was powerful in 1978?
                \_ Yes.
           \_ What's the statute of limitations say?
              \_ 6 years
        \_ I care but there is this innocent until proven guilty thing
           \_ It's worth knowing.  Yes innocent until, but you'll never know
              if it gets blown off.
           \_ And OJ Simpson is innocent.
                \_ Klinton still raped my dog!
            \_ If OJ is so innocent, why are they auctioning off his stuff?
1999/2/25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15477 Activity:very high
2/25    I want to be a Berkeley liberal, because I have a secret, well-hidden
        desire to drive a somewhat rusted-out 1970s Volvo station wagon with
        all of those bumper stickers across the back, like "YOU CAN'T HUG
        YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR ARMS", "It will be a great day when our
        schools have all the money they need, and the Air Force has to hold a
        bake sale to buy a bomber", and "War is harmful to children and other
        living things".  Not to mention "FREE LEONARD PELTIER".
        \_ I have a secret well-hidden desire to drive a new Ford F250
           with a "The South will rise again," "Guns don't kill people,
           people kill people," and an "Impeach Bill Clinton" bumper
           sticker on it.
           \_ I drive a Lincoln with a bummper sticker that says "I voted
              for Buchanan".
           \_ Cool!  Let's trade cars!
        \_ You mean you want to be a COMMIE. Move to Cuba. Pat will make
           sure that we get rid of people like you.
        \_ How about being a Berkeley Yuppie Liberal and owning a SUV with
           the stickers "My child is a honor student..." and "Clinton/Gore
           \_ Those people do not grow from the true vine.
1999/2/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan] UID:15405 Activity:high
        50-50 for obstruction of justice.
        \_ Now its time for endless debate on censure motions.
                \_ Not.  Thankfully this CYA bullshit is dead.
        \_ I thought it was supposed to be > 50. Oh well.
                \_ No, after the house impeaches him in a majority, the
                   Senate must convict on a 2/3 majority in order to remove
                   the president.
                   \_ Seriously, did anyone think that it could possibly
                      be anything better than 56-44 to get him out of
                      office? what a waste of time.  Good job GOP, you
                      just about guaranteed that you won't be in the
                      White House for a few more terms.
                      \_ Not.  You haven't been in this country long enough
                         to understand that no one but a few crackpots is
                         going to vote against a Rep. candidate because of
                         the impeachment.  Don't be silly.  The so called
                         analysts and newspapers never manage to understand
                         or guess correctly what the American people are
                         thinking or going to do each election.
                      \_ You base this on what?  POLLS!?  Hahahhaha, they
                         don't poll the 'voters'.  They poll the 'people'.
                         Keep in mind that statistically the people they're
                         polling are more left than the average voter.  Voters
                         are more conservative than "The People".
                      \_ Not the way polls are going against Al Gore right
                         now for 2000.
                         \_ When Clinton originally ran people didn't think
                            he had a chance even against his own party
                            adversaries (Paul Tsongas) and look what happened.
                            I think we should pull another Jessie the Body
                            Ventura/Ronald Reagan and vote Bill Bradley into
                                \_ Al is a stiff board nobody.  Put him on
                                   stage in a debate against anyone with half
                                   a personality and then see if the voters
                                   choose a person or a 2 dimensional image.
1999/2/12-13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15404 Activity:nil
2/12    The trial is finally over. Clinton acquitted 55-45 for perjury,
1999/1/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15185 Activity:high
1/7     What does the expression "go postal" mean?  Thanks.
        \_ It means go crazy or something like that.  Now you want to now
           what FoB stands for I assume. j/k
        \_ My friend visited Hong Kong awhile back. He came back and said
           "My gosh, the teenagers are such FOBs there." The sad part was,
           he didn't see anything inherently contradictory in that statement.
           \_ So what DOES FoB stand for?
        \_ (a) There's the stereotype of the 'disgruntled postal worker',
               who would go out and shoot up a post office and a half dozen
               co-workers. This happened about a half dozen times, hence,
               the phrase.
           (b) FOB - Fresh off the Boat - new immigrants, perceived as
               clueless in their new surroundings.
               \_ Not to mention gaudy dressers
                \_ I love my clothes!!! - FoB
                \_ Oh yeah? What about SODs? Still on the
               \_ Friends of Bill. Often heard in Washington DC during Clinton's
                  first term. Used to refer to people who were especially close
                  to the Clintons and therefore especially influencial. Not
                  heard much today.
                  \_ Prolly cuz they all somehow died.
                     \_ or caught something
                        \_ Or committed suicide by shooting themselves in the
                           back of the head.
           (c) FOB - Furbies of Bill, furry beaked creatures that compel
               presidents to desire blow jobs while being investigated
               by special prosecutors, these creatures never learn.
                \_ I thought he broke off his affair before the investigation.
                   Is this incorrect?
                   \_ Which investigation?  Which affair?
        \_ I love how this thread grow...:)
1999/1/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15162 Activity:nil
1/1     http://www.drugereport.com clinton's love child gets dna tested.  results
        not yet known... whee!
        \_ Actually, it's http://www.drudgereport.com
1998/12/17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15112 Activity:nil
12/16   US strikes IRAQ.  Clinton to speak soon.
        \_ Clinton should order attack against the republicans.
        \_ All I have to say is not Wag the Dog.
           Besides that: Take everyone in Washington, put them under oath,
           ask them: Have you ever lied, misled or withheld or otherwise
           decieved your voting public? If they say yes: kick 'em out.
           If they say no, assign an independent council with 40 million
           dollars to investigate them for as long as it takes.
           \_ $40 million?  Shut up, cmlee.
1998/12/17 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Korea] UID:15111 Activity:kinda low
12/16   Korea clones human!
        \_ While Clinton bans human cloning in the US, other countries are
           already producing super intelligent beings, capable of crippling
           US intelligence and inventing high tech weapons of mass destruction.
           The "Pretender" vision is alive!
        \_ troll deleted
           \_ Clearly, they're evil and anti-christian.
1998/11/25-26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:15032 Activity:very high
11/25   http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm for the most recent info on
        why Clinton should be impeached and shot.
        \_ yeah whatever. i think you should be impeached and shot.
           \_ What do you mean "yeah, whatever"?  If the current
           administration has jeopardized the national security of this
           country, then it should be removed.
           \_ politicians selling out the country's interets  because some
              big contributor asked them to?  Wow, now there's news.  What
              political utopia have you been living in?
                \_jeopardized national security!??? Youre stupid.
           \_ getting a blowjob is close to national security breach?
              \_ I hear the Iraq situation is cumming to a head...
                 \_ but Im sure we'll "pull out" before anything irreversible
        \_ What an amazing, realiable source of information.
1998/11/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:15008 Activity:high
11/21   Summary of idiotic conversation:
        I don't know how to use tar.
        Here's how to use tar.
        Yer a twink.
        No, yer a twink.
        No, yer a twink.
        \_ Actually that was "You're an idiot", but you got the right idea.
        \_ I still haven't figured out the vernacular here on motd.public.
           When do I use each of the following: twink, idiot, h0zer, troll.
           \_ use twink when refering to bill clinton
           \_ use idiot when refering to dan quayle
           \_ use h0zer when refering to monica lewinsky
           \_ use troll when referring to some b.s. republican speach.
1998/11/7-8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14924 Activity:high
11/6    Newt Gingrich is resining from Congress.  See http://www.cnn.com for
        \_ i say let him stay. the more harm he can do to the gop the better.
        \_ he's resining from congress?  you left out a g.
           \_ better than recosining -- that's just sick!
                \_ Not to run for sPECKER of the House.
        \_ Darn!  Can't depend on republicans for making foolish mistakes
        \_ now let us see if clinton has got the balls to follow suit.
        \_ it's about time!
1998/11/4-5 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14905 Activity:nil 66%like:14902
11/4    The magic of democracy..
        \_ Yeah, so?  What's your point?  That Minnesotan's are tired of
           the same old shit from the one party system?
1998/11/4 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14902 Activity:nil 66%like:14905
11/4    The magic of democracy...
1998/9/23 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14657 Activity:high
9/22    Scorched...sorry my finger slipped.
        \_ Impotent minds are so predictable as to allow me to make sure
           petty censorship doesn't go as unridiculed as your genitles too
           often do. So, for the soda geek world to know... this is what
           the above spinless halfwit "scortched". -(fucker):

"You will be spending 5 hours per week in this class.  You will spend 3
hours in lecture and 3 hours in discussion."
 -- UC Berkeley Math Professor Keith Miller
\-lecture and discussion may not be mutually exclusive.
  \_ are you saying that |L UNION D| = 5 or |L INTERSECT D| = 1. i think
     miller is just full of shit. just ask anyone who took math 54.

In Clinton's 1974 campaign for Congress, he stated that there was

        "no question that an admission of making false statements
        to government officials and interfering with the FBI and the
        CIA is an impeachable offense."

and that when a president is guilty of such offenses

        "I think it's plain that the president should resign and spare
        the country the agony of this impeachment and removal proceeding,"

Legalize Oral Sex!
\_ It's illegal now?
   \_ Yes, in several states, it is, actually.
        \_ And has been since they became states.
   \_ Yes, in some states, sodomy, defined as sex not strictly for the
      purpose of reproduction (oral, anal, etc) is illegal.  I seem to
      remember a case of a couple getting it on in their car getting
      arrested several years back.
   \_ Isn't there some weird ass law in Washington or some state (maybe
      it was a city) where you can't have sex if you're a virgin?
        \_ Does that mean a virgin would have to go to another state to
           devirginize?  How on earth did they think such a law would be

"Public media should not contain explicit or implied descriptions of sex
acts. Our society should be purged of the perverts who provide the media
with pornographic material while pretending it has some redeeming social
value under the public's 'right to know.' Pornography is pornography,
regardless of the source."

-Kenneth Starr, 1987, interview with Dianne Sawyer - 60 minutes
\_ Crap erased... it was hurting my eyes...
1998/9/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14656 Activity:insanely high
9/22    Everyone keeps complaining that Clinton thinks he's above the law.
        I think everyone should be held to the same standards (even the
        president).  Therefore, everyone MUST disclose every last bit of
        detail about their private sex lives or face felony charges.
        \_ Disembowelment through the spinal column would be too good a
           death for a scrotumsniffing colon callous like you who
           apparatly lacks that certain je-ne-sais-qoi that allows members
           of the human species to demand, in some fit of cognitive
           activity, more of a leader than any average person with respect
           to morality, honesty and social responsibility which is EXACTLY
           SHOULD NO LONGER BE but in the end these words are useless
           against a nerfherding, pillowbiting, synapselacking,
           lambspanking, chickenfucking, heartbleeding, femurfudging,
           zitnibbling, penguinpunching, nerurally challenged turdburgler
           the likes of yourself. -(fucker)
1998/9/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Recreation/Dating] UID:14654 Activity:very high
9/22    Why do people put those rainbow color stickers in their car?
        \_ I'm not sure exactly what it means, but I think
           it is a warning to other people. It says "Hey I am a dumb ass
           stupid pussy driver." From personal experience, these rainbow
           people are the worse drivers in the world. They leave 20-30 car
           distance on the highway and accelerate like my grandma.
        \_ that rainbow symbol = gay pride
           \_ that explains their faggot-like driving behavior, sheesh
              \_ It's nice to know that csua-ers are that mature.

"You will be spending 5 hours per week in this class.  You will spend 3
hours in lecture and 3 hours in discussion."
 -- UC Berkeley Math Professor Keith Miller
\-lecture and discussion may not be mutually exclusive.

In Clinton's 1974 campaign for Congress, he stated that there was

        "no question that an admission of making false statements
        to government officials and interfering with the FBI and the
Legalize mOral Sex!
        CIA is an impeachable offense."

and that when a president is guilty of such offenses

        "I think it's plain that the president should resign and spare
        the country the agony of this impeachment and removal proceeding,"

Legalize Oral Sex!
\_ It's illegal now?
   \_ Yes, in several states, it is, actually.
        \_ And has been since they became states.

   TH3N G03Z H0M3 2 S3KR3TLY G3T 0FF 2 G1FS UV N3KK1D GURLZ!!!1!!
   FR33 B1LL KL1NT0N!!!1!!
"Public media should not contain explicit or implied descriptions of sex
acts. Our society should be purged of the perverts who provide the media
with pornographic material while pretending it has some redeeming social
value under the public's 'right to know.' Pornography is pornography,
regardless of the source."

-Kenneth Starr, 1987, interview with Dianne Sawyer - 60 minutes
\_ Crap erased... it was hurting my eyes...
1998/9/22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14653 Activity:nil
In Clinton's 1974 campaign for Congress, he stated that there was

        "no question that an admission of making false statements
        to government officials and interfering with the FBI and the
        CIA is an impeachable offense."

and that when a president is guilty of such offenses

        "I think it's plain that the president should resign and spare
        the country the agony of this impeachment and removal proceeding,"

Legalize Oral Sex!
\_ It's illegal now?

"Public media should not contain explicit or implied descriptions of sex
acts. Our society should be purged of the perverts who provide the media
with pornographic material while pretending it has some redeeming social
value under the public's 'right to know.' Pornography is pornography,
regardless of the source."

-Kenneth Starr, 1987, interview with Dianne Sawyer - 60 minutes
   TH3N G03Z H0M3 2 S3KR3TLY G3T 0FF 2 G1FS UV N3KK1D GURLZ!!!1!!
   FR33 B1LL KL1NT0N!!!1!!
1998/9/22-23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:14651 Activity:high
9/22    News headline: "Europe Fears For US Democracy After Clinton Videos"
        \_ Remember what I warned you about democracey? - a communist.
                \_ Like this country should give a flying fart's fuck what
                the European's think about democracy or anything else for
                that matter.  Can anyone here possibly imagine how completely
                fucked up this country would be if we ran it the same way the
                Euroidiots _try_ to "run" their countries?
                \_ See, that's cause we put all of our stupid people into
                   journalism and politics, then let them get in fights
                   with the Americans, while we're busy driving good cars,
                   having sex with gorgeous slutty European chicks (the
                   miniskirts got better since they started shaving their
                   legs;  do _your_ women wear miniskirts?) and drinking
                   better beer.  -John
                \_ Let's have another Patriotism Flamewar!  Fun for the whole
1998/9/17-18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14618 Activity:high
"Yes, the president should resign. He has lied to the American people,
time and time again, and betrayed their trust.  Since he has admitted
guilt, there is no reason to put the American people through an
impeachment. He will serve absolutely no purpose in finishing out his
term, the only possible solution is for the president to save some
dignity and resign."

  - 12th Congressional District Hopeful William Jefferson Clinton,
 during the Nixon investigations in 1972.
        \_ http://www.drudgereport.com a few times a day and you'll get all the
           Clinton related news you can stand.  I saw this quote a few
           weeks ago.
        \_ Clinton's a stud.
        \_ So what that he lies about his sex life.  This not as important as
           lying about other serious crimes committed in our nation.  Watergate
           incident was much more serious than "I did not have sex with that
           ugly fat bitch..."
1998/9/12 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14582 Activity:high
9/11  If I hear one more person on tv complaining about the explicitness
      (is that a word?) of the Referral, let's remind ourselves that it
      had to be that explicit to actually see if Clinton lied.  It was him
      that wanted a definition of sexual relations, so that he can twist
      it somehow to get away with saying "no."  It was him that
      lied to everybody, and tried to coverup for 7+ months.  Let's face
      it, he screwed up once, and screwed up once more to cover it
      up.  Most people would have cared less if he had an affair, its
      the lie and coverup that pissed a lot of people off.  I just wish
      people look past the sex (kinda hard, I know), and see why the
      Starr handled the investigation the way he did.  Now that's off my
      chest, what's the best footnote?  On the news, 210 and 318 was
      mentioned by some dude on a boat, how about fellow sodans? --byeung
      \_ what the hell are you talking about? people are upset that he had
         sex with her you idiot.  And don't give me that bullshit that you
         wouldn't lie yourself if someone asked you in front of 6 billion
         people whether you had sex with a nasty looking woman.
      people look past the sex (kinda hard, I know), and see why the
      Starr handled the investigation the way he did.  Now that's off my
      chest, what's the best footnote?  On the news, 210 and 318 was
      mentioned by some dude on a boat, how about fellow sodans? --byeung
        \_ Oh boy, i thought i saw the last of that neener-neener-neener
           bullshit attitude when I got out of the 7th grade.
           Incidentally, byeung you're pretty damn cool man.
1998/9/12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14579 Activity:nil
9/11  "taste good" Clinton said after sticking a cigar into Monica's twat
      and then putting it in his mouth
1998/9/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14578 Activity:kinda low
9/11  So clinton had refused to go down on lewinsky because "he didn't know
      her well enough".
      \_ no, he refused to "leave her a souvenir", so to speak. He never went
         down on her, never offered, and was never asked to. as far as we know.
                \_ You didn't read the full report where it says he was going
                   to, but she stopped him for "physical reasons" (on the rag).
1998/8/21-22 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14494 Activity:moderate
8/20    They should just hire a hit man and waste that sucker instead of
        spending millions of dollars on missles.
        \_ Clinton's finally learning that wars and conflicts deflect
           attention from his extracirricular activities.
                              \- Hmmm, I think that would be extraCURRICULAR,
                                you dope.
           \_ Are you REALLY that brain dead?
              \_ Ok, next time I write a joke, I'll put (this is a joke)
                 at the end so there's no confusion. Sheesh.
           \_ Your bandwagon wag-the-dog theorizing bores me sick the
              way you're nothing more than a mindless fuck repeating
              what you hear paying no heed to the eventuality that even
              a feigned display of having a spine by our pathetic
              president may be sufficient to prevent foreign psychos
              from bombing our embassies, not that you'd think of
              something like that, thinking being one of those things
              your Barbie dolls are better at than you are, you walking
              waste of carbon; may you be more useful in death as a
              fossil fuel than you could ever be in life.  -(fucker)
              \_ Geez, are you that humor impaired?!? Shit, does anyone
                 really believe the above statement? Besides, when's the
                 last time anything serious was said on this motd
              \_ The problem is that in fighting terrorism, we risk
                 becoming terrorists ourselves.  Were any civilians
                 killed in this exercise?
                \_ Your point is...?
                        If I had a point in abusing some poor ratfucker
                        for being a moron, which I don't in a painfully
                        obvious manner, you wouldn't get it anyway cause
                        you're just the type of inbred 'coonstuffer who
                        needs the meanings and points of things beaten and
                        hammered into your rediculously impotent brain
                        much in the same way lead pipes and other large
                        metal objects should be.  -(fucker)
                    \_ if you have to ask...
        \_ he's like a half-billionare.  it'd take about $20m for the reward.
        \_ Yeah, and it'd save the cost and embarassment of an impeachment
           hearing...oh wait, wrong sucker....
1998/8/18 [Recreation/Dating, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Academia/GradSchool] UID:14479 Activity:nil
8/17    "I had sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, but I did not impale."
        \_"I did not have sex with Ms. Lewinsky.  We made love."
1998/8/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14460 Activity:high
8/14    I don't want to find where to put my Clinton comment down below
        but if you held every president to that high of a moral standard
        then you've eliminated the vast majority of Americans as
        candidates for president.  Who hasn't done something illegal.  Yet
        people think they can hold presidents to standards that they
        wouldn't even expect of themselves.
        \_ Most grown married men do not go off and have affairs with
           with 21-yr olds who work for them, or with lounge singers
           for that matter.  Clinton adheres to lower moral and ethical
           standards that most americans.
           \_ get laid.
              \_ yeah, 'moral standards' are just a weak cop-out escuse for
                 the losers jealous that they're not "gettin' some"
           \_ I'm pretty sure that the same group of people who are trying
              to get the president impeach for infidelity probably are
              guilty themselves of the same crime.  What irony.
           \_ $40 million we could have spent on schools, cancer/aids
              research, (and for those militant republicans, weapons) but
              no, we had to spend it on revealing one person's personal
              life.  Shows how we have our priorities straight.
           \_ It seems unsual that in the common workplace employers get
              sued for prying into their workers personal life.  Yet we
              find nothing wrong with exposing something that the
              president does outside the job.  If you want to evaluate a
              servant you evaluate their job performance.  Anything that
              that the president did wrong not related to the job should
              be handled by Hillary.
        \_ It's nice to see that America has sunk so low that people don't
           *expect* their leader to measure up to a higher standard than
           "the vast majority of Americans".  Damn straight I'll hold our
           President to a higher standard than I'd expect of myself -- but
           at the same time, I'm never planning on being President.
           \_ If America has "sunk so low", why did we not care about
              such things as much in the past?  Why did we not pay $40M
              to find out who slept with who with Kennedy or Harding.  Why
              are you so taken in by the tripe you're being fed by "upstanding"
              "moral bastions" of the Right?
              \_ Why are you so taken in by the tripe you're being fed by
                 the Left?  NEENER-NEENER!!!1!  DOODYHEAD!!!!
1998/8/13-14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14456 Activity:very high
        \_ The only good motd is a dead motd.
        \_ What are you going to do about it?  Launch a Kenneth Starr
           \_ Actually, now that you mention it...
           \_ They're too weak.  It's the OSC for you, buddy.
           \_ When they investigate the independent council for
              for misappropriating funds, will that also be called
              the "Kenneth Starr Investigation"?
                \_ No funds were misappropriated.  URL please?
                   \_ Wow.  Not even 'I don't know of any funds
                      being misappropriated'.  So I take it you
                      have a personal accounting of his $40+ million
                      budget?  The council has been repeatedly
                      reprimanded for his allocation of investigative
                      resources to the Paula Jones case where he had
                      no authority to do so.  Furhter, the initial
                      wiretap of Linda Tripp was done BEFORE his
                      expansion of power to cover the Lewinsky matter.
                      How many other 'fishing Tripps' have we financed?
                      Who will watch the watchers?
                        \_ That isn't misappropriation.
           \_ Spend $40 million tax payer dollars on something that no one
              cares about.
              \_ And the "Kenneth Starr Investgation" is unique
              \_ How else can they make some entertainment news the news
                 headlines, everyday?
              \_ Not "no one".  Don't lump me into your shallow zero-morals
                 apathetic "the economy is fine so its ok" group of leftist
                 stupidity.  Even if this line of "reasoning" wasn't a total
                 cop out, it isn't Clinton who gave us a healthy economy. It
                 is the work of a Republican, Alan Greenspan.  No one has done
                 more harm to this country in recent years than AG; by keeping
                 the economy humming, he has allowed morons like you to slack
                 by without a blink at the worst President this country has had
                 since Johnson, or maybe earlier.  Please stop opening your
                 editor on the motd without your brain properly engaged.
                 \_ The Republicans invented the internet?
                    \_ Probably so, considering most of those guys who worked
                       at BBN back in the 1960s were probably crew-cut, white-
                       shirt-and-black-tie wearing guys (working on a DoD
                       funded project, to boot).  The long-haired, dope-
                       smoking WiR3D! pseudo-hippies came along later.
                 \_ Republican is the reason for our healthy economy?  Oh come
                 \_ No body said that the economy is fine and therefore forgive
                    the President.  The point argued is the $40M spent just
                    to find out that the President lied about his extra
                    marital affair.  That is the President's personal life.
                    Who gives a shit what he does with his personal life.
                    \_ and besides which, we don't need to spend $40M to figure
                       that out.
                    \_ You're right.  I'd rather have the OIC investigate his
                       possible role in the transfer of sensitive missile
                       technology to the Chinese.  I *hope* that Clinton moves
                       to California after he leaves office, so he can be
                       easily within range of a new-and-improved Long March
                       missile, along with most of us.
                    \_ Hm.  He took a vow to be faithful.  He took an oath
                       as president.  If he doesn't care about the first
                       one, how can we trust him on the second?
                       \_ most every elected official has taken an oath to
                          their position.  Are you that fukn lame?  or do
                          you want to go through each of our senators,
                          representatives, governors, down to city council
                          members, and find out who's cheating on who?
                       \_ A President is human, you know.  If you are so
                          damn picky, then why don't you elect a computer
                          run the country.
                          \_ Bob Dole don't run against computer.
                       \_ Exactly.
                       \_ So what if the republicans can impeach the
                          President.  Al Gore will be next person to be
                          President if Clinton is impeached.  This would only
                          showcase Gore for the next Pres. election.
                 \_ Speaking of zero-morals, I'm a lot more worried about
                    the power being amassed by the special prosecutor than
                    the things he is trying to investigate.  Why do you idiot
                    right wing jingoists have to use 'morality' to mean
                    'our limited sexual mores' rather than the more general
                    term.  Anyone notice that the 5th amendment hasn't seemed
                    to apply to the President in all this?  Nor his staff.
                    Who's next?
                    \_ Uh oh... "they" are out to get us!  The sky is falling!
                       The 5th amendment is about the right to not self
                       incriminate yourself.  If he begged off on the 5th,
                       he's admitting guilt to the public, if not to the
                       \_ Actually, taking the 5th is not supposed to be
                          used in deciding guilt or innocence.  Also,
                          one of the principles of our judicial system
                          is that Grand Jury proceedings are not open
                          to the public.  This is supposed to protect
                          people from getting harassed by prosecutors
                          on fishing expidtions which never convict the
                          target.  Don't you think eroding the protections
                          of our judicial systems are a lot worse than
                          consensual sex between adults? -emin
                 \_ Just out of curiousity, why is Clinton the worst
                    president since Johnson? -emin
                        \_ or was that "worst president with a Johnson"?
                        \_ because he hasn't gone to war with anyone yet
                           \_ Uh, there hasn't been another Vietnam, but
                              Somalia?  Bosnia?  Attempted whoop-ass on
                              \_ You're comparing Somolia/Bosnia to
                                Vietnam?  Only the casualties was only a
                                fraction of that in Vietnam and they
                                weren't complete failures like the Nixon
                                war was.
                 \_And how many millions of dollars have gone to pay
                   the salaries of "White House Counsels" whose main job
                   is to stonewall and intimidate witnesses over the past
                   six years?
1998/5/20-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:14114 Activity:nil
5/20    Why do people make fun of Janet Reno so much? Is it because she's
        as buff as a football player?
        \_ One word: Waco
1998/4/1-2 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:13890 Activity:high
4/1     Bill "The Quicker Zipper" Clinton escapes without jury trial.
        \_ It's . . . it's a LEFT_WING CONSPIRACY!!!!1!!!!1!
           \_ Yes it is, but we'll prevail in the end . . .
                                         -- Right-wing consipracist
        \_ Asking for a blow job is not against the law! Well, at least
           if you're the president... -some other wingnut
                \_ Do not pass GO.  Do not collect $200.00.
        \_ Clinton can be charged for indecent exposure, but not for
           sexual harrassment!  A day of victory for all men!
                \_ Do not pass GO.  Do not collect $200.00.
                \_ Not for all men.  Don't be daft.  It's a victory for
                   powerful politcal men, which I presume you are not.
1998/2/27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:13739 Activity:nil
2/26    You ignored our warnings when we killed Sonny Bono & that Kennedy brat
        and called them "skiing accidents" -- just wait and see what happens
        to the Clinton's ski vacation this weekend.  -THE TREES-
        \_ We can only dream . . .
1998/2/14 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:13671 Activity:nil
2/13    Lewinsky is one fat ugly chick!  What was Clinton thinking????
        \_ At his age, you get what you can take.
                \_ She's got a big horsey jaw.  That's all he needed.
1998/2/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:13618 Activity:very high
2/3     Who removed the thread on Clintonomics?
        \_ Dude, i don't like clinton that much either, but what the
           fuck more do you want from an economy?
           \_ A future plan that isn't based on bullshit and false promises?
                \_ Concentrate on the present, not on the future.
                \_ and what president has ever delivered one of those?
        \_ you have it all wrong -- they concentrate on what will get them
            ( or their party) re-elected.  few voters are made 'happy'
            by reducing the fed debt. Many (senior) voters are made happy by
            bolstering social security.  Whether or not it's a good idea...
                \_ Death to old fucks!  Let em starve if they were too stupid,
                   greedy, or dependent on the feds to take care of their
                   lazy worthless fat wrinkled asses.
1998/2/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:13612 Activity:high
2/2     Can anyone help me to understand Clintonomics?  Clinton talks
        about surplus in federal budget going into social security,
        but doesn't the surplus go into reduce the national debt?  I
        am confused.
        \_ Clinton doesn't think it's important to reduce the national debt;
           he probably just wants a balanced budget to pacify criticism from
           some conservatives, doesn't personally think it's important, and
           therefore he uses any surplus to do whatever he feels like.
        \_ It's just the typical tax&spend democratic party line bullshit.
           The so-called surplus he's already promised to spend on more big
           government programs doomed to failure doesn't even exist yet.
           It's money he's hoping will exist from a variety of sources
           such as tobacco industry punishment legislation which hasn't
           even been written yet.  A giant "fuck you!" to anyone stupid
           enough to vote for this corrupt, lying, worthless sack of shit
           in either of the last two elections.
1998/1/23 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:13548 Activity:high
1/22    Clinton is such a stud!!! Flower, Jones, and Lewinsky. STUD MAN!!!
        \_ he's kind of a chubby chaser, tho.  Ande they aren't
          that pretty.
         \_ At least the last one wasn't an embarrassment.
         \_ Then you must think Woody Allen's a REAL MAN
                \_ not true, clinton has MORE number and even YOUNGER ones.
            \_ Nah, I doubt Bill will marry Chelsea anytime soon.
                \_ Although he's certain to sleep with her, get her a series
                   of jobs she isn't qualified for, then try to hush her
                   about it.
        \_ Clinton, shminton.  Check out sony bono's wife
          Now that was some 62 year-old stud butt.
                \_ So he bought a bimbo, so what?
                \_ don't get it. I still think Clinton has a bigger penis.
                   \_ size doesn't matter -ari
                      \_ isn't that just something nearly dickless
                         guys say to try to keep their wives faithful?
                         (and fail)
                         \_ Obviously you haven't seen the jpg of ari naked.
                                \ URLP ?
1997/8/19 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:32151 Activity:nil
8/19    Teamsters/Clinton: 1, UPS/Big Corporation: 0. - t.t.
        \_ let's unionize!- a high-tech professional working in silicon valley
1996/11/13 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Recreation/Computer, Recreation/Media] UID:32001 Activity:nil
11/11   Did anyone tape the Tyson/Holyfield fight, or have Showtime?
        (They'll be rebroadcasting it Sun at 8:00, but I haven't got
         ST... It'd be fun to see the fight though!)  -- Marco
        \_ Who won?
           \_ It's only worth watching if holyfield won (and he did)
           \_ clinton
        \_ I taped it, but the reception was relly bad so it's
           black-and-white.  It's your only chance to see Tyson really get
           his ass kicked. -Benny
           \_ at least until they release "America's Funniest Prison Videos"
1993/4/8 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:31262 Activity:nil
4/8     I suggest people calling their respective Republican Senators
        and complain about the filibuster tactics they used to kill
        Clinton's stimulus package.  Essentially, what they are saying
        is: "We know you are out of a job, but we are saving you
        \_ I suggest you try looking at the package before you whine.
           It's actually full of swimming pools, unemployment benefits,
           and projects for Puerto Rico.  Stuff that will not help the
           majority of the US people get jobs.  Besides that, it's way
           inefficient.  $900,000/job is the cost.  It is very, very
           fortunate that the Republicans had enough votes to prevent
           a vote.  Now, a compromise will be forced, which might just
           provide a bill that will not destroy the economy and drop us
           back into a recession.  [By the way, California doesn't have
           any Republican Senators to call]
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